The demons of the three elements. "Caliber" against "Tomahawk"

The demons of the three elements. "Caliber" against "Tomahawk"



The cruise missile is almost devoid of wings. At speed 900 km / h to create lift enough small folding “petals”. Unlike airplanes, the KR does not have take-off and landing modes; rockets fly and land at one speed. And the higher the speed at the time of "landing" - the worse for the enemy.

Appearing in the mid-twentieth century, tactical cruise missiles for a long time became synonymous with anti-ship weapons. The reason was the lack of guidance systems suitable for the destruction of ground objects.

Even the most primitive radar GOS confidently "captured" ships against the flat surface of the sea. But for finding point objectives in the folds of the relief the radars of that era were useless.

Progress began towards the end of the 1970's. with the development of relief correction systems (amer. TERCOM - Terrain Contour Matching). They led to the goals of the legendary “Tomahawk” and its Soviet rival C-10 “Pomegranate”.

TERCOM determined the current coordinates by checking the data of the radio altimeter with a digital elevation map along the flight route. The method had two important advantages:

a) low-altitude flight with rounding of the terrain. What provided the stealth missiles and hampered its interception by air defense. From the ground, low-flying CU can be seen only at the last moment, when it flashes overhead. It is not at all easier to detect it from above against the background of the earth: the range of detection of the KR by interceptor fighter MiG-31 was about 20 km;

b) sufficiently high accuracy and complete autonomy - you can only deceive “Tomahawk” by digging up the plains and leveling ridges with the help of the battalion of the construction battalion.

Now about the shortcomings. TERCOM required digital elevation maps for each particular region of the Earth. For obvious reasons, TERCOM was useless over the water (gyroscopes led to SLCM before the ascent) and not very reliable when flying over low-contrast terrain (tundra, steppe, desert). Finally, the circular probable deviation was about 80 meters. Such accuracy was enough for the delivery of nuclear warheads, but it was completely inadequate for conventional (conventional) combat units.



1986 was the year of birth of long-range tactical missiles. Adopted by the American fleet UGM / RGM-109C was adopted. The third modification is the Tomahawk ”, equipped with an optical target recognition system and a 450-kilogram charge of a powerful brisant. Overnight, the SLCM turned from a Doomsday weapon into a threat to all the “undemocratic regimes” of the planet.

Like a merciless killer from Cameron’s action movie, he went out into the attack zone, focusing on the height of the underlying terrain, then the electronic “eyes” of the DSMAC (Digital Scene Matching Area Correlation) system were turned on.

The murderer checked the received pictures with the “photo” of the victim in his memory. And flew right through the window, arranging a "surprise" to everyone in the room.

About the window, of course, bent. However, with a QUO about 10 meters, “Tomahawk” had the opportunity to hit any selected structure.

The little deadly robot quickly gained popularity.

Operation Desert Storm (1991) - 288 missiles launched. Operation Desert Fox (1998) - 415 missiles launched. Invasion of Iraq (2003) - 802 “Tomahawk” released!


Not counting the smaller episodes using SLCM (Yugoslavia - 218 launches, Afghanistan - 125, Libya - 283). The last time a flock of “Toporov” fell on ISIS (47 missiles launched in 2014).


The Philippine C cruiser shoots ISIS positions from the Red Sea


Winged “Tomahawks” cannot single-handedly win the war. But they are a great help in the dirty affairs of the Pentagon.

“Ax” is not subject to any international restrictions. It is placed in any secluded place (up to 122 launch cells on surface ships, up to 154 on submarines). Mercilessly thrashes backhand - swoops down on a chosen target, rams it in horizontal flight, or explodes when flying over it. Extremely versatile. It has several attack algorithms and various types of combat units (high-explosive / cluster / penetrating).

Even despite the possible failures of TERCOM (according to rumors, some “Tomahawks” flew into the territory of Turkey and Iran), as well as the inability to hit mobile objects, such missiles can cause enormous damage. “Knock out” fixed towers, buildings and hangars, leaving the enemy without warehouses, communications and electricity.

And, most importantly, Tomahawk launches are mere pennies compared to conducting air operations with the obligatory involvement of cover groups, suppressing air defense and jammers. Without the need to risk airplanes and the lives of pilots - when the cost of a single cruise missile approaches the cost of a laser-guided bomb.

Among the main drawbacks was the short range of the conventional Tomahawk. With the mass of conventional explosives 450 kg versus 120 kg in a thermonuclear warhead + installation of optical sensors, the range was reduced by more than two times - from 2500 to 1200 km.



The problem was partially solved by the year of 1993 with the advent of the modification “Block 3”. With a decrease in the mass of warheads (340 kg) and “upgrade” of equipment based on microelectronics of the new generation, the Tomahawk’s flight range has increased to 1600 km.

Having shot a couple of thousand rockets, the Pentagon came to the conclusion that the SLCM is not an exotic, but an expendable material. So, we must abandon the excesses and reduce the cost of production as much as possible. So, in 2004, a “cattle-tomahawk” appeared for brutal colonial clashes.

Where are his four keels? Enough and three. “Tactical Ax” (TacTom) received a new low-cost turbofan engine and a plastic case made of scrap materials (due to which it lost the ability to start from great depths). The cost of production of the rocket fell twice.

Despite all these "improvements", the new rocket has become more dangerous than before. Progress in electronics allowed to place on board a whole range of guidance tools, including an inertial navigation system, a relief TERCOM, an infrared DSMAC, as well as a GPS, a television camera and a two-way satellite communication system. Now "Axes" can patrol over the battlefield, in anticipation of the enemy. And their operators - to determine the state of the target and, if necessary, to quickly change the flight task already on arrival of the SLCM in the combat zone.

In November 2013, the company “Reyteon” gave the US Navy a three-thousand CD of this modification.



At the moment, overseas is developing the next generation of “Smarty” SLCM “Tomahawk 4 Block” capable of hitting moving sea and land targets. Instead of DSMAC sensors, the promising missile will receive a millimeter-wave radar.

The possibility of hitting sea targets was first implemented in the modification BGM-109B Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missle (TASM), adopted by 1984 year. The anti-ship version of the “Ax”, in which instead of TERCOM there was a radar homing missile from the “Harpoon” rocket.

The flight range of the BGM-109B TASM was only 500 km (2,5 times less than other variants of the CD with conventional warhead). Shooting at long range was pointless.

Unlike a fixed military base, the enemy ship could crawl away from the calculated point to 30-50 kilometers in just one hour. At that time, there were no communication systems with a missile and the possibility of correcting the flight mission. RCC flew to a given area using an inertial system, where its compact RLGSN was then activated. To increase the likelihood of “capturing” targets, various algorithms were implemented, including search for "snake". But this could not drastically affect the situation. RCC flight range should not exceed 30 - 40 minutes, otherwise, by the time the rocket arrived in a given area, the target could go out of sight of the homing head. Due to the lack of need for large reserves of fuel, TASM was lighter than the conventional conventional “Tomahawk ”Almost 300 kg.

Currently, the task is becoming even more complex and confusing. The emergence of two-way communication systems with a missile and the possibility of its re-targeting in flight, opens up almost unlimited prospects for RCC developers. But it is now, and at that time ... It seemed there was no point in shooting at long distances.

However, even 500 km is a huge distance. Only the most exotic samples of Soviet anti-ship missiles (for example, Granit) were able to surpass TASM in launch range, and only with a high-altitude flight profile through discharged layers of the stratosphere.

Unlike the Granites, TASM flew the entire distance from the water, invisible to enemy radar. Subsonic speed was compensated by massive salvo application. Compact, simple, massive and omnipresent rocket was able to launch from hundreds of carriers. And the power of its heavy 450 kg warhead was enough to destroy the target with one hit.

Due to the lack of an equal rival at sea, the Tomahawk anti-shipping variant was retired in the middle of the 1990s.

BGM-109A with nuclear warheads were cut even earlier, as part of the START-I treaty. Since then, only tactical SLCMs with conventional warheads to defeat ground targets remain in service. Tomahawks carriers are 85 surface ships and 59 nuclear submarines of the US Navy, along with seven submarines of the British fleet.

"Russian fireworks"

The initiation of interest in the topic of cruise missiles is the result of the recent “fireworks”, whose flashes were visible from the shores of the Caspian Sea to the hills of ancient Judea. And their crimson glow reflected in the quivering windows of the Pentagon.



26 fire-tailed ghosts melted into the night. Death coming on schedule. Fear, horror and confusion in the offices of the Pentagon.

All of this is the Caliber missile system (NATO designation SS-N-27 Sizzler,. "Ashbringer"). Modification of NK (for launching from surface ships).

The type of missile used is ZM-14, a subsonic long-range SLCM for hitting ground targets. In addition to it, the ZM-54 anti-ship missile (has both a conventional and “unusual” version with a three-strike combat stage) and an 91P anti-ship missile with a warhead in the form of a self-guided torpedo are included in the nomenclature of the Unified Caliber family.

The carriers are three small rocket ships of the Caspian Flotilla (Uglich, Grad Sviyazhsk and Velikiy Ustyug), as well as the guard ship Dagestan, equipped with a universal ship firing complex (USK).

No, the power of “fireworks” was not strong. 26 missiles from four ships - the equivalent of half of the US destroyer volley. But the effect produced was similar to Armageddon. Magnificent demonstration of the achievements of the MIC. The Russians had their own analogue “Tomahawk”. More accurate and more powerful than his overseas rival! 26 shots without a single error. 11 successfully destroyed targets.


IRA "Grad Sviyazhsk". On the roof of the superstructure, the covers of the UKSK launchers



The small rocket ship possesses considerable shock potential. Missiles of the Caliber family bring the Russian IRAs to the level of the American missile destroyer (on the bottom photo)

Currently, “Caliber” missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy, incl. three boats “Varshavyanka” and multi-purpose submarine K-560 “Severodvinsk” (32 launch mines). And this is just the beginning! By the middle of the next decade, the number of carriers should increase to several dozen. Missiles will be installed on ships under construction and upgraded, incl. on the heavy nuclear cruiser “Admiral Nakhimov”. And in the future, they will rearm all multipurpose nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy.

Due to the lack of reliable data on open sources in Russian SLCMs, most of the article was taken up by the story about “Tomahawk”. Secrets and features of various guidance systems, designs and combat units of cruise missiles. It is on the basis of these data that we can draw certain conclusions about how domestic missiles operate. What are their real characteristics and capabilities.



The overall dimensions of the “Caliber” (ЗМ-14) are similar to the “Tomahawk 3 block”. With an equal length (6,2 m) and the same diameter (slightly less than 533 mm - dictated by the restrictions of the torpedo tube), the Russian 250-300 kg rocket is heavier than the “American”. Subsonic mode for both SLCMs is absent. The difference in mass is explained by a combination of one or several of the listed factors: a more powerful warhead (~ 450 kg versus 340 kg), increased flight range (up to 2000 km in conventional equipment) and the use of radar homing missiles for targeting missiles at point targets (because we do not have a domestic analogue of the DSMAC optical recognition system). The last point imposes additional conditions on the power system of the rocket.

Instead of the classic TERCOM, the domestic ZM-14 “Caliber” is equipped with a combined control system on the march segment, including a GLONASS receiver and a radio altimeter, which allows you to accurately maintain the height in the rounding mode of the terrain. Of course, there is an inertial navigation system based on accelerometers and gyroscopes on board.

Finally, the question that worries the public the most: can ISCs from the Caspian Sea “get” an American aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf?

Let's talk about this another time.
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  1. sevtrash 19 October 2015 07: 26 New
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    And will a conversation be complete without the participation of agm129, x55 / 555, x101 / 102?
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    2. Mera joota 19 October 2015 07: 40 New
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      Quote: sevtrash
      And will a conversation be complete without the participation of agm129, x55 / 555, x101 / 102?

      These are air-launched missiles and have an advantage over the Ax and Caliber, they do not need to climb to the height using their fuel, their plane lifts, in terms of the GOS they are almost identical.
      1. umah 19 October 2015 10: 08 New
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        The overall dimensions of “Caliber” (ЗМ-14) are similar to “Tomahawk block 3”. With an equal length (6,2 m) and the same diameter (slightly less than 533 mm - dictated by the limitations of the torpedo tube), a Russian rocket 250-300 kg is heavier than the “American”.

        Actually, the length of our 7 torpedo tubes is more than meters. This means that the rocket is longer and more fuel (or a heavier warhead) is placed in it.
        There are export "Gauges" with a length of 6,2m, designed for NATO torpedo sizes. But there the range is limited to 300 km.
        1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 11: 16 New
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          Quote: umah
          Generally

          because we do not have a domestic analogue of the optical recognition system DSMAC

          ..how is it missing?
          First of all, Optical GOS 9E436 for OTR Iskander.
          Developed by TsNIIAG (Moscow), the missile is guided by the reference image of the target, similar to the GOS missile 8К14-1Ф (theme "Aerofon"). External view below.

          Secondly, "television GOS", "thermal imaging" (not IR GOS on a spot, namely analogs of monochromatic television, only in the infrared range).
          It is the presence of tele / thermal imaging, at present, that allows us to talk about launches "on mobile targets."
          Passive homing
          Television

          Television seeker rocket X-59.
          Systems in which the homing head focuses on the edge of the target that is dark or light relative to the surrounding background. Moreover, the line of contrast can be formed not only by contrasting color against the general background, but also by incident sunlight and shadows. After aiming, the target image is fixed in the rocket's memory and is automatically updated as it approaches the target. The main element of the television seeker is a black and white optoelectronic camera. Soviet missiles used an analog television camera with a television standard of 625 lines on 550 lines, modern television GOS uses a CCD. Television homing is passive, which allows an attack hidden from the enemy.

          The advantage of the television guidance system is the high accuracy of hitting a missile at a target, which allows you to hit single, maneuverable small objects. In addition, the television system after launch is autonomous, therefore, it does not limit the medium in the maneuver in any way, which implements the principle of “shot-and-forget”. The disadvantages include a strong dependence on weather conditions, as well as the composition and pollution of the atmosphere. The homing television system works effectively only in bright contrasting light.

          Used on rockets:
          X-25MT X-29T

          Thermal imaging
          In general, it is similar to a television homing system, only it works not in the panchromatic, but in the infrared wavelength range. Sometimes the thermal imaging air-to-surface missile guidance systems are confused with the infrared air-to-air missile guidance system, but these systems have a fundamental difference. Initially, the air-to-surface missile thermal imaging system formed an image of the target, in contrast to the air-to-air missile ICGS, which was aimed at a heat spot. Modern infrared homing systems of both types of missiles have no fundamental differences - both form an image of the target using a camera based on a CCD matrix.

          Advantages and disadvantages are similar to a television guidance system. However, the thermal imaging homing system can work in low light and at night.

          Used on rockets:
          X-25MTP · X-29TD · X-38MT
      2. Falcon 19 October 2015 13: 08 New
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        Quote: Mera Joota
        These are air-launched missiles and have an advantage over the Ax and Caliber, they do not need to climb to the height using their fuel, their plane lifts, in terms of the GOS they are almost identical.


        Air Launch - Yes. But what is the advantage? They fly at heights in 100m - it’s not so difficult to climb there.

        In any case, flying at low altitude with envelope relief. The rise to height is not at all significant
  2. krokodil25 19 October 2015 07: 28 New
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    One could tell the story of the creation of the caliber and not only the tomahawk.
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    2. Mera joota 19 October 2015 07: 50 New
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      Quote: krokodil25
      One could tell the story of the creation of the caliber and not only the tomahawk.

      The caliber grew from a pomegranate which was pulled off the Tomahawk. But this is not the case, Caliber is a family of missiles that were supposed to replace the disgrace that was happening in the Navy. Those. On the basis of one rocket, a complex of the same size was created that does not require individual carriers (in the sense, each rocket has its own ship, such as with a Mosquito or Volcano). Be it UVP with which it is possible to launch both PLUR and RCC and TKR or a torpedo tube of a standard 533mm caliber. Those. Caliber is a step towards unification of Like American Navy.
      Unfortunately it turned out as always. There had to be a choice between Caliber and Onyx, instead the fleet received both, a similar sign of post-Soviet Russia, the military-industrial complex imposes its conditions on the army. Instead of one of the two, we get this and that ... And the Ka-52 and Mi-28 ... And AEK-971 and AK-12 ...
      1. FID
        FID 19 October 2015 10: 24 New
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        Quote: Mera Joota
        The caliber grew from a pomegranate which was pulled off the Tomahawk.

        I always like expressions such as "pulled", "slammed", "borrowed" ... Pulled what? The round shape of the case? Little rectangular wings? Engine? Could you explain what you actually pulled off?
      2. andrey682006 19 October 2015 14: 14 New
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        Those. that Onyx is supersonic, and Caliber - subsonic - is not an argument for you? It was necessary to make one rocket with both flight modes? belay
        1. FID
          FID 19 October 2015 17: 55 New
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          Quote: andrey682006
          Those. that Onyx is supersonic, and Caliber - subsonic - is not an argument for you?

          I apologize, you inattentively read:

          The type of missile used is ZM-14, a subsonic long-range SLCM for hitting ground targets. In addition to it, the ZM-54 anti-ship missile (has both a conventional and “unusual” version with a three-strike combat stage) and an 91P anti-ship missile with a warhead in the form of a self-guided torpedo are included in the nomenclature of the Unified Caliber family.

          This is from the article, i.e. there is a variety and supersonic ...
      3. xtur 19 October 2015 14: 55 New
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        > Caliber grew from Pomegranate which was pulled from Tomahawk

        if pulled off - honor and praise of the GRU and the KGB. But this would mean putting into service many years later than the opponent. And the “Pomegranate” and “Tomahawk” entered service almost simultaneously.

        Timely use of the correct concept is not called pulled off. In order to be able to pull back from “pulling together”, it is necessary to pull off a lot of design documentation, which is practically unrealistic. In reality, the maximum can be pulled TTX and the device.
        1. 79057330785 12 November 2015 11: 40 New
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          As far as I know, one Tomahawk fell in Cuba and he was sent to the USSR.
          Sidewinder at one time copied
          it turned out P-3C
  3. mamont5 19 October 2015 07: 38 New
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    "Finally, the question that most worries the public: can RTOs from the Caspian Sea" get "an American aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf?"

    Alas, not yet. For moving targets, this missile is not suitable. There is another, but it is only at 300 km. Let us hope that our scientific minds are not asleep and will come up with something to fear the adversary.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich 19 October 2015 08: 27 New
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      Quote: mamont5
      Alas, not yet. For moving targets, this missile is not suitable.

      what? climb on a barge with a beacon, light a cigarette and wait ... wassat
  4. Sasha75 19 October 2015 07: 40 New
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    Well, this rocket did a good job with the ruble exchange rate one day; the dollar fell personally, I saw it myself))).
  5. Professor 19 October 2015 07: 43 New
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    11 successfully destroyed targets.

    Seriously? wink
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    2. Mera joota 19 October 2015 07: 53 New
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      Quote: Professor
      Seriously?

      It is impossible to verify, therefore it should be taken on faith.
      1. dmi.pris 21 October 2015 01: 57 New
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        The Orthodox, seriously, the Jews need to check on their own skin ...
        Quote: Mera Joota
        Quote: Professor
        Seriously?

        It is impossible to verify, therefore it should be taken on faith.
    3. Andrey Yuryevich 19 October 2015 08: 19 New
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      Quote: Professor
      Seriously?

      Oleg, well, is it sense to troll people? There is no serious evidence of fallen "calibers", why push the water? request
      1. WUA 518 19 October 2015 11: 58 New
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        Quote: Andrew Y.
        there is no evidence of fallen "calibers", why crush water?

        Andrew welcome. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details. The self-liquidator is on the missiles, and if this really happened, then it would be stated that the wreckage had been found, and these same wreckage were presented. In the meantime, only this walks on the Internet: the Qassioun Iranian news agency published a photograph of a fragment of a Russian cruise missile that did not reach its targets in Syria and fell on the territory of Iran. Agency sources said that the shell fell into the desert and did not cause harm to local residents.
        1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 12: 39 New
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          Quote: WUA 518
          published a photo of a fragment of a Russian cruise missile

          ...it's fake!
          Gauges - already equipped and assembled at a different level of installation technology. The above correspond to the installation technologies of electricians - no later than the middle of 80xx. Those. if "something has fallen," then this is from that era!

          Below the shawl from the same series of pictures - the 133 series of microcakes!
          "Don’t tell may sneakers" is called! laughing laughing laughing
          Caliber Inna!
      2. Professor 19 October 2015 14: 01 New
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        Quote: Andrew Y.
        Oleg, well, is it sense to troll people? There is no serious evidence of fallen "calibers", why push the water?

        It's not about them. Tomahawks are also not all reach the goal and there is nothing wrong with that. The more complex the technique, the greater the probability of failure. It's about allegedly destroyed objects. Where is the confirmation?
        1. Ruslan67 19 October 2015 14: 11 New
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          Quote: Professor
          It's about allegedly destroyed objects. Where is the confirmation?

          Oleg request Confirmation will be through all channels when it arrives at the White House or the Capitol. And across the warehouse in the middle of the desert, what confirmation other than Big-Bukh!
          1. Professor 19 October 2015 14: 24 New
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            Quote: Ruslan67
            Oleg Confirmation will be through all channels when it arrives at the White House or the Capitol. And across the warehouse in the middle of the desert, what confirmation other than Big-Bukh!

            Every day, the Russian Defense Ministry posts videos on a bourgeois video resource. And then there is such an event and not a single clip. Why?
            1. Ruslan67 19 October 2015 14: 27 New
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              Quote: Professor
              . Why?

              One thought is what Dolbanuli where they should not have even now request that is, in the territory of Iraq Or just drones do not get out I'm not MO request
              1. Manul 19 October 2015 22: 57 New
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                Quote: Ruslan67
                Dolbanuli where there should not have been

                Why is it? What, the rockets did not test before taking into service, that they did not know where they could fall? None of the missiles directly hit the target? Already a couple of videos could have been made for the incredulous. They didn’t show it - it means that information about the warhead type can be classified. That characteristics remained a secret longer.
            2. Falcon 19 October 2015 15: 25 New
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              Quote: Professor
              Every day, the Russian Defense Ministry posts videos on a bourgeois video resource. And then there is such an event and not a single clip. Why?


              So they take off from the planes they beat. And here are the rockets. Therefore, there is no video. How to remove it? Send LA, then what's the point in rockets?
              1. Professor 19 October 2015 18: 54 New
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                Quote: Falcon
                So they take off from the planes they beat. And here are the rockets. Therefore, there is no video. How to remove it? Send LA, then what's the point in rockets?

                Removed from drones with the famous "cross".
                1. Manul 20 October 2015 01: 52 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  Removed from drones with the famous "cross".

                  And what about our celebrities? Do you often position yourself as a superman who is too far away from worldly things? What do you think about our Russia? Let's talk about Merkava or Caterpillar.
                  Oh yes, the topic of the article is obligatory .. Well, well. No matter where you get caught - one trolling is obtained. But is it nothing that you spread the topic of discussion yourself?
        2. Manul 19 October 2015 22: 50 New
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          Quote: Professor
          It's not about them. Tomahawks are also not all reach the goal and there is nothing wrong with that. The more complex the technique, the greater the probability of failure. It's about allegedly destroyed objects. Where is the confirmation?

          And where is the confirmation that Moses drove you through the wilderness for 40 years? (Preferably a video, or at least a link to a reliable source). Why not 39 or 41? Where are the arguments?
          Let's be patient, and ask a question about calibers later. The Ministry of Defense did not show the video, so you need to sleep peacefully - they won’t show it yet.
          But where were you all on the day the missiles were launched? Are you speechless? Worked on a trolling system? Manuals ruled? lol
    4. 0255 19 October 2015 11: 03 New
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      Quote: Professor
      11 successfully destroyed targets.

      Seriously? wink

      And how many goals did Caliber hit according to the Mossad kosher data?
    5. Ladoga 19 October 2015 12: 17 New
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      No, we’re joking like that.
  6. Alexy 19 October 2015 08: 03 New
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    Anyway, one step behind the ovs.
  7. hauptman7 19 October 2015 08: 04 New
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    They were shooting from the Caspian Sea, and the smell of filled pants came from overseas laughing
    1. Andrey Yuryevich 19 October 2015 08: 55 New
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      Quote: hauptman7
      Shot from the Caspian,


      interrupted the entire Internet, did not find such a weapon ... request lol
      1. Manul 19 October 2015 23: 00 New
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        Quote: Andrew Y.
        interrupted the entire Internet, did not find such a weapon ...

        New launcher winked
  8. Mera joota 19 October 2015 08: 04 New
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    I have already indicated my critical opinion regarding the use of ARLGSN in the 3M-14 launched by jihadists. Well, they don’t have such radio-contrast targets that could be detected using radar. Well, the flight range casts doubt on the presence of ARLGSN, therefore GPS / ANN / optical correlation GOS. Maybe I'm wrong ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich 19 October 2015 08: 21 New
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      Quote: Mera Joota
      I have already indicated my critical opinion regarding the use of ARLGSN in 3M-14 launched by jihadists.

      yes zadolbali already with "critical opinions"! there was a demonstration of opportunities, and then the goal was achieved! all!
      1. Manul 19 October 2015 23: 03 New
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        Quote: Andrew Y.
        yes zadolbali already with "critical opinions"! there was a demonstration of opportunities, and then the goal was achieved! all!

        Oi Yuryich, they are still stuck ... recourse Their shock is over, new manuals have arrived in the mail. Even to the Censor, I’m sure that today’s their day for calibrating Caliber - everything is interconnected in this world.
    2. tlauicol 19 October 2015 11: 30 New
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      (C) "we do not have a domestic analogue of the optical recognition system DSMAC" - read the article?
      1. Falcon 19 October 2015 11: 37 New
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        Quote: Tlauicol
        (C) "we do not have a domestic analogue of the optical recognition system DSMAC" - read the article?


        TV seeker Iskander:

    3. Falcon 19 October 2015 11: 40 New
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      Quote: Mera Joota
      I have already indicated my critical opinion regarding the use of ARLGSN in the 3M-14 launched by jihadists. Well, they don’t have such radio-contrast targets that could be detected using radar. Well, the flight range casts doubt on the presence of ARLGSN, therefore GPS / ANN / optical correlation GOS. Maybe I'm wrong ...


      I agree, I do not understand what data on the image intensifier tube can be entered into a rocket to determine the building ???

      What should this ARLGSN see
      1. tlauicol 19 October 2015 12: 06 New
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        She must see the goal. not only in the optical, but in the radio range and compare with the image captured also in the form of radar images
        1. Falcon 19 October 2015 12: 13 New
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          Quote: Tlauicol
          She must see the goal. not only in the optical, but in the radio range and compare with the image captured also in the form of radar images


          How do you expect the image intensifier of the building to be determined, and that the AGSN should work in cartographic mode? Then it’s not GOS ... but Bars.
          1. tlauicol 19 October 2015 12: 25 New
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            the missile is guided by comparing a digital map of the area in the target area and the data of the correlation radar of the GOS. The target’s general portrait may be poorly distinguishable (dugout, bunker, stash), but if there are a couple of anchor points on the ground (hill, tower, building) - this is enough for the rocket to hit the third point (target), even if it merges with the surface . Correlation.
            An active RLGSN needs a contrast goal - perhaps those 11 goals were such (a house, a service station, a garage) - there is no video.
            1. Simple 19 October 2015 13: 23 New
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              Quote: Tlauicol
              the missile is guided by comparing a digital map of the area in the target area and the data of the correlation radar of the GOS. The target’s general portrait may be poorly distinguishable (dugout, bunker, stash), but if there are a couple of anchor points on the ground (hill, tower, building) - this is enough for the rocket to hit the third point (target), even if it merges with the surface . Correlation.
              An active RLGSN needs a contrast goal - perhaps those 11 goals were such (a house, a service station, a garage) - there is no video.



              Here is a similar "reconnaissance" will help in the problem of pointing missiles.
              1. tlauicol 19 October 2015 14: 02 New
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                Against the Papuans will help. but not one self-respecting state will let it fly over its territory
          2. opus 19 October 2015 22: 54 New
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            Quote: Falcon
            How do you expect the image intensifier of the building to be determined, and that the AGSN should work in cartographic mode? Then it’s not GOS ... but Bars.

            The building image intensifier does not need to be determined.
            The image intensifier is determined in the area of ​​the target, as well as radar reflections from the earth's surface

            If the Earth’s surface is uneven, then the radio waves are reflected in different directions, including in the opposite direction (to antenna)

            An effective reflective area is a dummy surface, which is an isotropic and non-power absorbing re-emitter, which, when combined with a real surface, creates the same radiant power flux density of the reflected signal as the real surface

            where Potr is the density of the power flux reradiated by the reflecting surface and created near the emitter; P2 - the density of the power flux created by the emitter near the reflective surface.
            EPR (EOP) eff. = EPR (EOP) eff / S,
            where S is the surface area forming the reflected signal.

            Area S is determined with narrow radiation patterns by the width of the radiation pattern, with wide radiation patterns - by the size of the first Fresnel zone when reflected. In addition, the value of S depends on the parameters of the radar station.
            The surface backscatter diagram (DOR), from which everything is "calculated".

            OUR (ZM-14) and ARGS-14 do not receive / compare the image intensifier tubes of the object, but receive / compare the image intensifier tubes of the surface (coordinates) where the object was located (detected by reconnaissance assets).
            There and beat, by coordinates.
            Roughly speaking with the Americans: after a missile enters the target area, guidance on the final section of the flight path is carried out by the DSMAC subsystem. With the help of optical sensors produced Inspection of areas adjacent to the target. The obtained images are digitally entered into a computer. She compares them with the reference digital pictures of the districts embedded in her memory, and develops corrective rocket maneuvers.

            And we have the same ARGS-14.Not optics, but radar

            ARGS-14 does not work as a radio altimeter. (The angle is not the same), and this is not necessary. There is a radio altimeter on board, just like a barometer
      2. opus 19 October 2015 22: 46 New
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        Quote: Falcon
        what data on the image intensifier can be entered into the rocket to determine the building ???

        What should this ARLGSN see

        Yes, everything is the same as that of the ARGSN PSM-E for the X-25MAE missile.


        It allows you to detect, capture and track targets on the guidance path of the SD, has the ability to select targets in the group, provides guidance of the SD in contrast and in correlation modes according to the reference system of standards introduced during pre-flight preparation.

        Among the missile targets with the PSM-E ARGS, there may be ground and surface targets, such as BTT targets at and on the march, aircraft and helicopters at the stands, fortified ground installations, tactical missile launchers, air defense systems and artillery mounts at and on the march , railway trains, stockpiles of ammunition and fuels and lubricants, bridges and light crossings, radar positions, compact elements of industrial structures and other objects.


        Wave range

        Ka
        Target detection range, km:

        - tank

        4
        - industrial building

        5 ... 8
        ================
        or

        CWG according to US patent No. 4665401, MKI G01S 13/72 / Sperri Corp., 12.05.87. A CWG operating in the millimeter wave range searches for and tracks ground targets in range and in angular coordinates. The distinction of targets in range in the CWG is made through the use of several narrow-band filters of intermediate frequency, providing a fairly good signal-to-noise ratio at the output of the receiver. Range search is performed using a range search generator that generates a signal with a ramp frequency to modulate a carrier frequency signal. Target search in azimuth is performed by scanning the antenna in the azimuth plane. The specialized computer used in the CWG selects the range resolution element in which the target is located, as well as tracking the target by range and angular coordinates. Antenna stabilization - indicator, is performed according to the signals taken from the pitch, roll and yaw sensors of the rocket, as well as the signals taken from the sensors of elevation, azimuth and speed of the antenna.
        1. Falcon 20 October 2015 08: 58 New
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          +1
          Anton, thanks! hi
  9. Fidel 19 October 2015 08: 37 New
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    (... Currently, Caliber missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy ...)

    I didn’t understand much here.
    After all, the advantage of Caliber is precisely that launch can be made from a STANDARD torpedo tube. Those. a simple torpedo boat becomes an almost strategic carrier! Because outwardly you can’t determine what is charged there. I have never heard of such a thing about Tomahawks.
    1. Alexander Romanov 19 October 2015 08: 53 New
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      Quote: Fidel
      After all, the advantage of the Caliber is precisely that the launch can be made from a STANDARD torpedo tube. Those. a simple torpedo boat becomes an almost strategic carrier! Because outwardly you can’t determine what is charged there. P

      About these rockets, it's like Waterfall
      1. Fidel 19 October 2015 08: 59 New
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        Nah ...
        "Waterfall" is another tale.
        This anti-submarine missile torpedo.
    2. Falcon 19 October 2015 09: 11 New
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      Quote: Fidel
      After all, the advantage of Caliber is precisely that launch can be made from a STANDARD torpedo tube. Those. a simple torpedo boat becomes an almost strategic carrier!


      The presence of the device does not allow starting. But what about all guidance systems, control, etc.
      And modernization is not such a simple and cheap process.

      If you have a computer case, this does not mean that the motherboard, RAM, etc. are already inside.
      1. Fidel 19 October 2015 09: 22 New
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        Duck is not wholesale speech!
        Guidance systems in her own head and in space!
        And I think it’s not so expensive to put electronics on the ship corresponding to the topic.
        That's the joy))
        And if you follow the path of analogies in terms of the case from the computer, then it’s more like this: you know that your neighbor has a hunting rifle in the safe, and when you decided to climb into the window you were met by a volley from a tank gun)) lol
    3. mav1971 19 October 2015 15: 18 New
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      Quote: Fidel
      (... Currently, Caliber missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy ...)

      I didn’t understand much here.
      After all, the advantage of Caliber is precisely that launch can be made from a STANDARD torpedo tube. Those. a simple torpedo boat becomes an almost strategic carrier! Because outwardly you can’t determine what is charged there. I have never heard of such a thing about Tomahawks.


      And if you think?
      How is the transfer of target designation and flight modes to the rocket?
      Maybe you need special equipment?
      And if such equipment is needed, is it already installed on each torpedo boat?
      Or maybe torpedo tubes of another modification are needed to use calibers?

      Such questions do not arise before you?
      1. Anatole 6 November 2015 08: 26 New
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        If I understood correctly, it was mentioned that after the launch of Caliber, all control and target designation goes to the center of the aerospace complex.
  10. cniza 19 October 2015 08: 50 New
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    [quote = Fidel] (... Currently, Caliber missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy ...)

    I didn’t understand much here.


    And why tell everything at once.
  11. Fidel 19 October 2015 08: 54 New
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    [quote = cniza] [quote = Fidel] (... Currently, Caliber missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy ...)

    I didn’t understand much here.


    And why all at once to tell. [/ Quote]
    So this property was precisely the focus.
    More in the February announcements of MO)
  12. Falcon 19 October 2015 09: 04 New
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    I do not understand how the GOS can find a target on earth? It is also necessary to know the image intensifier of the building in which it is aiming.

    DSMAC - is still clear. Probably something similar is on TV GSN Iskander. But does the GSN radar have the properties of cartography?
    1. opus 20 October 2015 10: 44 New
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      Quote: Falcon
      But does the GSN radar have the properties of cartography?

      Yes.

      Earth radar.
      Arkon-2M radar observation satellite, Radarsat-1, Radarsat-2, ENVISAT, COSMO-SkyMed, TerraSAR-X satellites

      non-alternative substitute for photographing(in any weather, at any time of the day) - All-weather radar survey using SAR (synthetic aperture radars).



      The spacecraft has a radar with SAR, in terms of MGH and power it is practically comparable to the GOS of the Kyrgyz Republic (other frequencies).

      -----------------------------
      Further will be even worse

      wink
      1. Falcon 20 October 2015 12: 46 New
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        Quote: opus
        The spacecraft has a radar with SAR, in terms of MGH and power it is practically comparable to the GOS of the Kyrgyz Republic (other frequencies).


        I do not understand what a spacecraft is? Is the power of ARGS-14 enough for the mapping mode. Should there be a decent power computer?

        I understand for example:
        Quote: opus
        The image intensifier is determined in the area of ​​the target, as well as radar reflections from the earth's surface


        But this is an average value, is not cartography still far?

        Quote: opus
        Show / Hide text
        http://www.vega.su/upload/iblock/551/5510dafe61b43b1e07a116b1afa4e8a7.pdf


        Thanks, by the way! I leaf through a book at my leisure hi

        Quote: opus
        Further will be even worse


        At the tomahawk, a promising millimeter seeker with afar only appears. Before her, as I understand it, they relied on a DSMAC definition for stationary purposes, since the GOS radar could not cope?
        1. opus 21 October 2015 00: 01 New
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          Quote: Falcon
          I do not understand what a spacecraft is? Is the power of ARGS-14 enough for the mapping mode. Should there be a decent power computer?

          Spacecraft
          ARLK (airborne radar system) at Arokn hide data.
          But let it be BETTER than MeteorA:
          Power of the spacecraft power supply system
          Average daily: 1,4 kW Peak 2,0 kW (PV: 4500/4000 W)
          On-board radar complex "Severyanin-M" .. transmitter radiation power 0,8 kW. / Burst mode out /
          Compare with ARGS-14 (or 54)
          Meteor No. 3 is more powerful, it has an AFAR, but it is unlikely that the radiation is more than 3,4 kW



          A BCMC for a spacecraft is becoming simpler, such efficiency is not needed: for Arkon remote sensing radar satellites, the speed with direct transmission from the spacecraft to the Earth is no less than 256 Mbps (in the X-band).

          the capacity of the on-board storage device and the capabilities of the system for providing thermal control of the BRLK should not introduce additional restrictions to the level of informational performance of radar systems.

          Quote: Falcon
          But this is an average value, is not cartography still far?

          Is it?
          Arcon working orbit 550-600km, standard error:

          determining the relative height of terrain features: no more than 1-2 m at a step of marks of 10-20 m;
          measuring shifts of plot elements relative to each other during the time elapsed between filming: not more than 15 mm.
          The accuracy of linking the radar image to an error (3σ) should not exceed:

          if there are benchmarks: 10 ... 30 m;
          in the absence of benchmarks: 30 ... 90 m.
          The accuracy of the device's orientation in space is no worse than 6-8 arc minutes, the stabilization accuracy is no worse than 10-3-10-4 degrees / s.
          The speed of software turns is up to 0,2 deg / s.


          1. opus 21 October 2015 00: 06 New
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            will be:

            (Aircraft with RSA used to do the mapping of the right places; I won’t be surprised that they are still fulfilling the task of the party and government wink
            Quote: Falcon
            since the radar seeker could not cope?

            Well no.
            apparently DSQ-28 weighs more, consumes more, xs.
            Maybe they have optoelectronic scanners on every passenger plane, so they scored the base.
            Technical characteristics of remote sensing instruments and their carriers in different ranges (visible, infrared, radio range).
  13. Fidel 19 October 2015 09: 07 New
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    Remember the March hysteria of Saray Obama about all sorts of violations of the INF Treaty and other la-la-la.
    Now it’s really mattress to watch at least every barge!))
    There is a thread somewhere near the shore of Varadero, a torpedo boat of the coast guard of the Revolutionary Army, Comandante F.K.
    And they should do SHO ?! lol
  14. Fidel 19 October 2015 09: 12 New
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    Quote: Falcon
    I do not understand how the GOS can find a target on earth? It is also necessary to know the image intensifier of the building in which it is aiming.

    DSMAC - is still clear. Probably something similar is on TV GSN Iskander. But does the GSN radar have the properties of cartography?

    I think the author of this article and he really does not know what is on Caliber. For obvious reasons. The story is mostly about Axes. How the mattress amused them, how happy it was, how it was cherished ....)) And then - ONCE! Bummer.
    1. Santa Fe 19 October 2015 10: 28 New
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      Quote: Fidel
      And then - ONCE! Bummer.

      30 years in military service
      150 launch vehicles
      dozens of modifications
      2000 + combat launches

      What is a Bummer?
      1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 12: 00 New
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        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        What is a Bummer?

        ... all right write above about achievements.
        But, this is just one side of the coin.
        They didn’t bring the opposite, namely: how many “fell”, shot down, did not fly ...
        According to statistics from military analysts, almost half of the axes - "did not find their goal."

        Careful need ...
        1. voyaka uh 19 October 2015 16: 20 New
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          "According to statistics from military analysts, almost half of the axes
          - “They did not find their goal. ”/////

          One military aircraft, as you know,
          shoot two anti-aircraft missiles. For reliability.
          SAM - an accurate weapon, but not with 100% hit.

          But you do not claim because of this that SAM is a bummer.
          1. Manul 19 October 2015 23: 06 New
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            Quote: voyaka uh
            "According to statistics from military analysts, almost half of the axes
            - “They did not find their goal. ”/////

            One military aircraft, as you know,
            shoot two anti-aircraft missiles. For reliability.
            SAM - an accurate weapon, but not with 100% hit.

            But you do not claim because of this that SAM is a bummer.

            SAM misses the target mainly due to counter-missile maneuvers and countermeasures (heat traps). The ground target is not allocated in this way, which means that comparing these systems is incorrect.
            1. voyaka uh 20 October 2015 16: 20 New
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              "The ground target is not highlighted like this, so comparing these systems is incorrect" //

              The ground target is not secreted, but it is protected by air defense
              (Kyrgyz Republic is not allowed on trifling goals). The comparison, in my opinion, is correct.
              I will explain:
              During the night shelling of Baghdad by the Tomahawks in the 1st Iraqi Iraqi air defense
              shot from everything that is, including anti-aircraft machine guns. Fired
              absolutely blindly, continuously, and correctly did, as it turned out
              - they managed to bring down several Tomahawks.
              In such conditions, it is normal to launch 2 missiles per object.
              1. Manul 20 October 2015 19: 03 New
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                Quote: voyaka uh
                The comparison, in my opinion, is correct.
                I will explain:

                hi Convinced.
      2. UzRus 19 October 2015 12: 08 New
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        Not really a bummer, but still - And there was not a worse rival with similar characteristics. Well, or something like that.
  15. Mantykora 19 October 2015 09: 28 New
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    More accurate and more powerful than his overseas rival! 26 shots without a single mistake. 11 successfully destroyed targets.

    Explain to me, ignorant in military affairs - 11 targets, but 26 launches. Is it accuracy? There are just so many enthusiasms, but it turns out that 2, or even 3 missiles, went for one purpose. The second safety, in case the first misses?
    1. Fidel 19 October 2015 09: 33 New
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      Not this way.
      The goals are different.
      Both in size and in importance.
      Like a hunt.
      When you hit a really valuable or dangerous target you need to be sure. cartridges do not save. negative
      1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 12: 03 New
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        Quote: Fidel
        need for sure. cartridges do not save.

        The concept of the Soviet army is guaranteed destruction!
        If so, then duplication and even tripling of strikes on important goals.
        Wait a second they write: 60 sorties - 25-30 destroyed targets.
    2. GRAY 19 October 2015 09: 55 New
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      Quote: Mantykora
      The second safety, in case the first misses?

      It depends on what the goal is a complex of buildings, for example, or an accumulation of equipment. It’s not YaBCH after all.
      And it is not a sin on especially important objects to duplicate for fidelity.
      I think that these warehouses were hollowed, basically. First, with the help of airstrikes, the enemy was forced to evacuate the materiel from the front depots to the rear, and then the rear was covered with missiles.
    3. McLuha-MacLeod 19 October 2015 12: 45 New
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      The second is the control in the back of the head. The third - fireworks on the graves of igil
    4. Manul 19 October 2015 23: 10 New
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      Quote: Mantykora
      Explain to me, ignorant in military affairs - 11 goals, but 26 launches. Is it accuracy?

      These questions really amaze me. There is no need to be an expert in military affairs, you just need to understand that a grenade may not be enough for a tank. If this is one building, one rocket is enough for you. If a large base - more area, more carriers are required. It seems obvious fool
  16. a-cola 19 October 2015 10: 53 New
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    Quote: Professor
    11 successfully destroyed targets.

    Seriously? wink

    Well, the Americans would write that there are 26 destroyed targets on 30 tomahawks))) And ours are modestly so, with more than 2 missiles per target, with a guarantee. First time all the same. What is incredible?
    1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 12: 06 New
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      Quote: a-cola
      Well, Americans would write that on 26 Tomahawks 30 destroyed targets

      ... well, the auli tribe of the MRT (marketers-managers-peerschegs)
      laughing
      Without shame and conscience, everything is for sale!
      fellow
  17. Hammer 19 October 2015 11: 08 New
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    And in the future, they will re-equip all multipurpose nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy.

    I hope this does not happen. Where then to put onyxes?
    1. UzRus 19 October 2015 12: 09 New
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      It does not interfere.
    2. Ladoga 19 October 2015 12: 34 New
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      Do not worry . We have many enemies, as you have already seen. There are on whose heads to lower them.
  18. voyaka uh 19 October 2015 11: 25 New
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    I am entirely for the concept of a small rocket ship, like Uglich.
    Eight long-range missiles turn it into a strategic
    weapons. If Gauges, like Tomahawks Anti-Ship Missle (TASM),
    will bring to the possibility of hitting mobile targets then
    Russians will indeed have weapons against aircraft carriers.
    Small ships are harder to spot. They pay less
    Attention.
    1. Rus2012 19 October 2015 12: 10 New
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      Quote: voyaka uh
      If Gauges, like Tomahawks Anti-Ship Missle (TASM),
      will bring to the possibility of hitting mobile targets

      Caliber-NK includes, in addition to 3M-14, -
      anti-ship cruise missiles 3М-54ТЭ (with low-flying supersonic warhead) and 3М-54ТЭ1 have a firing range from 10 to 220 and 300 km, respectively (we are talking about the export version, there are no exact characteristics of the Russian versions of the missiles, but they are higher). The mass of the warhead is 200 and 400 kg, respectively, the maximum flight speed is up to 700 m / s.
    2. Manul 19 October 2015 23: 13 New
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      Quote: voyaka uh
      Small ships are harder to spot. They pay less
      Attention.

      And accordingly it’s hard to destroy drinks
    3. The stranger 20 October 2015 03: 19 New
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      +1
      And in terms of detection, an aircraft carrier is a goal for beginners in a pioneer radio circle. Against him in the GOS, there is enough receiver for hunting foxes.
      He's an airfield. He not only shine with hundreds of antennas, he shout them hundreds of kilometers around him. And if you shut up - and it doesn’t pick up the aircraft, and doesn’t pick it up, it means you can’t even shoot at it, if it doesn’t work. And he has no other weapon.
      With him, the problem is in overcoming the layered missile defense escort.
  19. 31rus 19 October 2015 12: 08 New
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    What can I say, if you don’t know, it’s better to shut up, therefore the result that Caliber demonstrated was quite good, it’s strange that they’ve just adopted
  20. Nikolaevich I 19 October 2015 12: 19 New
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    There are already some who are outraged about “two machine guns, two helicopters, two rockets ...” ... maybe at the same time outraged about the business class and economy class on airliners? Like, what are they, two? To each his own! AK-12-for "wide consumption", army men; AEK- "savvy" special forces; Ka-52 easier to fly in rarefied mountain air, may be more in demand by special forces, Mi-28-army. "Caliber" - family of subsonic missiles (if you do not pay attention to the option with a solid fuel rocket accelerator), "Onyx" is a supersonic missile ...... request
    1. The stranger 20 October 2015 03: 26 New
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      Duc Ka is more of a fighter, and Mi is more of an attack aircraft, these are different cars.
  21. Resistance 19 October 2015 13: 12 New
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    Quote: Mantykora
    Explain to me, ignorant in military affairs - 11 goals, but 26 launches.


    I explain. 1 target, Washington, aiming points (for example) 3. New York, aiming points for SBP 9-15.

    "The caliber grew from a pomegranate which was pulled from the Tomahawk."
    It’s more interesting here, the intelligence found out that the Ax is being developed, our pursuers began the work and finished it first, thanks D.F. Ustinov
    1. mav1971 19 October 2015 15: 25 New
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      Quote: Persistence

      It’s more interesting here, the intelligence found out that the Ax is being developed, our pursuers began the work and finished it first, thanks D.F. Ustinov


      Why did it happen?
      Ours began to catch up and nothing really worked out. Until the moment when our valiant fellows pulled off the whole Tomahawk in the Caribbean
      and not ...
      Well, let's not say that they copied its engine, it’s not patriotic ..
      but let's say. that based on it they made their own.
      Only then did the movement in Caliber go ...
      1. Scraptor 19 October 2015 15: 33 New
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        one train manual?
        "xtur" already answered this topic ...
        1. mav1971 19 October 2015 16: 05 New
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          Quote: Scraptor
          one train manual?
          "xtur" already answered this topic ...


          And what did someone answer?
          I have my opinion, and I want to voice it.
          And about training manuals - it’s good to bear absurdities already.
          According to the manuals, only bloggers-thousandths and ten-thousandths work. who get good big money for it.
          The rest, stubborn or self-made, no matter - do not use any manuals.
          Everyone should understand this.
          I’m looking at your opuses and it seems to me. that you, too, are able to receive money by the training manual. And for some reason, it’s from the State Department.
          Why?
          And therefore. that all your opuses are the heyday of "dormancy."

          And there is nothing worse than causeless narcissism.
          corrupts it.
          Destroys the inside.
          And this is the goal of the same State Department.
          the destruction of Russia, do not care from which side. From an external threat or from internal corruption.
          When so many adults shout - we are the best in the world, we have the best weapons, tremble the Yankees and buggers - this is internal corruption.
          This is a game at the hands of the State Department.
          Think about it.
          At whose mill do you pour water?
      2. Rus2012 19 October 2015 17: 20 New
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        Quote: mav1971
        Well, let's not say that they copied the engine

        Move your original. And there was no point in completely copying someone else’s, for their own design school, original production and their technological bases. Yes, and copying under these conditions is more difficult and longer, and with an unknown result. Only compare and ask the price of the loyalty of their decisions.
        1. mav1971 20 October 2015 09: 04 New
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          Quote: Rus2012
          Quote: mav1971
          Well, let's not say that they copied the engine

          Move your original. And there was no point in completely copying someone else’s, for their own design school, original production and their technological bases. Yes, and copying under these conditions is more difficult and longer, and with an unknown result. Only compare and ask the price of the loyalty of their decisions.


          Unknown of course.
          But .. got the Amer engine around 75-76. 76 ordered the creation of the engine, which later became the turbofan engine, 50. He began his tests 80-m.
          1. Rus2012 20 October 2015 09: 39 New
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            Quote: mav1971
            Unknown of course.
            But .. got the Amer engine around 75-76. 76 ordered the creation of the engine, which later became the turbofan engine, 50. He began his tests 80-m.

            ... you have no idea what "copy engine" means!
            This means - together with a foreign engine (machine, equipment, etc. ...) to recreate the production potential that created it, together with the national school, the technological basis! All these are not empty words: each country has its own unique production and technological base (raw materials, equipment, cooperation, technical standards and regulations), a national production school (vocational schools, universities, research institutes).
            You can mechanically disassemble someone else’s motor-item-by-item-assemble-parts, but this product will not work like the original. At the same time, it will cost orders of magnitude more expensive ...

            Shouting "stole!", "Copied!" - can only illiterate crack-humanities and other "stick" claudia!

            All “smart techies” (we have a foreign one) act differently - the first copy of the new production car is silently bought by a competitor (steals, bribes, orders) ... and parses it to the last screw - determining the innovations and changes made compared to the previous model. Especially with military equipment ...
            This is a classic!
            1. mav1971 20 October 2015 22: 07 New
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              And who is talking about blind copying?
              I did not speak about 100% copying.

              If in your product the characteristics are 20% worse than that of a competitor, then with a competent study of competitive products, you can determine why this happens.
              For this we need both school and theory and practice.
              It just often happens that someone "shot" and the other "has not yet been found."
              I saw and understood what the "secret" is.
              This is called - do on the ground.
              not copying, but they themselves would not have reached such a result.
          2. xtur 20 October 2015 11: 19 New
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            > Amer’s engine was received in about 75-76 years.

            If we start from the material on the wiki - https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRDD-50, then there was a parallel development of two different engines for the Kyrgyz Republic, and an alternative “product 95” went to missiles.

            "The MAP faced a dilemma - which of these two engines should be given the green road. The question was put to discussion by the MAP scientific and technical council. The discussion was very stormy and despite the clear advantages of the turbofan engine-50 for survivability, the excellent characteristics given by experts CIAM, customers, at the council, it was decided to launch the "product 95" in large-scale production, thus closing the road to life for many years to the engine TRDD-50. "

            so, the discrepancies are obtained - if there is a stirabenny engine, then parallel development is more than redundant, and in this case, information is given only to one team of developers. If the information on the wiki is correct, then the engine that you think was copied from the American one did not go into production.


            If Wikipedia is lying, then you probably need to edit the article in it. Even if everything is rolled back, the history of edits will remain, and you can always prove that you fought for the truth
  22. serverny 19 October 2015 15: 29 New
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    we do not have a domestic analogue of the optical recognition system DSMAC

    Stupidity said, examples are already described above.
    And optical recognition systems are easier to cheat than radars - we recall the famous story about the bridge in Yugoslavia and the Axes flying in its copy from plywood and foil. For the same reason, they also thought up putting millimeter radar on new tomahawks.
    1. Toorik 19 October 2015 23: 11 New
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      but you can reference ... but it’s interesting to read, but I can’t find ....
    2. mav1971 20 October 2015 09: 00 New
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      Quote: serverny
      we do not have a domestic analogue of the optical recognition system DSMAC

      Stupidity said, examples are already described above.
      And optical recognition systems are easier to cheat than radars - we recall the famous story about the bridge in Yugoslavia and the Axes flying in its copy from plywood and foil. For the same reason, they also thought up putting millimeter radar on new tomahawks.


      After the first 300-400-kilogram warhead, any copy of the bridge ends.
      So we can make an assumption about the only Tomahawk.
      But not about the multitude.
      1. opus 20 October 2015 12: 16 New
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        Quote: mav1971
        but you can reference ... but it’s interesting to read, but I can’t find ....

        And you won’t find it, it's fantasy, like fishing nets, against tomahawks
        Quote: mav1971
        After the first 300-400-kilogram warhead, any copy of the bridge ends.


        Bridges of Belgrade
        Brankov bridge (Main span 261 m, total length 450 m)


        Bridge over Ada (Total length 964 m, Bridge width 45 m)


        Old sava bridge

        New railway bridge (total length 1928 m; bridge width 14,5 m)
        Pancevsky bridge
        Old railway bridge
        there are 9 of them in all ..
        .
        I just can’t imagine what labor and financial costs need to be applied to
        Quote: serverny
        copy of plywood and foil
        build quickly, similar to the original (for DSMAC) and ... and,so that all this junk doesn't fall apart from the morning breeze
        (My opinion in Yugoslavia was not so much plywood and foil)
        belay
    3. opus 20 October 2015 12: 05 New
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      Quote: serverny
      remember the famous story about the bridge in Yugoslavia and the Axes flying in its copy from plywood and foil.

      "beautiful" legends / stories:
      - jammers (jammers in English) of the signals of the American satellite navigation system GPS NAVSTAR - the simplest low-power (of the order of watts) transmitters of the shifted carrier frequency 1576-1577 MHz, completely incapacitating GPS. These jammers were made and installed by Serbian hams after the government addressed them on national TV.

      - Another “beautiful” method was to lure anti-radar bombs and missiles using microwave ovens located in wastelands with open doors emitting at a frequency of 2460 MHz (this frequency falls into the range of homing heads of 400-10000 MHz of anti-radar missiles) pilots, rockets and pentagon.

      - No less “beautiful” was catching “tomahawks” in networks stretched across rivers near bridges. “Tomahawk”, to hit, the bridge flies along the river, gets tangled in the net and falls into the water, like a rotten perch.
      But:
      The first modification of the rocket, Block IIA had only one attack mode - the rocket approached the target on a low-level flight and attacked it from the side, but this was in 1986. Subsequently, new modifications of Tomahawk Block III (which is against Yugoslavia) attacked the target in a dive.
      And, what does a copy of the bridge from plywood and Foil mean if the coordinates of the bridge (of the present) are known, and the CVO of 109C = 10m!

      -The Yugoslavs used the experience of the USSR war against Nazi Germany: when the boys made cannons out of snow, using logs as “trunks”. ..And in 1999, NATO pilots bombed such “tanks” —the skeleton of an old “passenger car” with a log inserted into it.
      ? True. Didn’t miss anything?

      Very similar to know-how
      Researchers of Resursprominvest Industrial Investment Company. (123557, Moscow, Bolshoi Tishinsky per., 8, p. 2, general director V.I. Dudov):

      To protect the local military, industrial and other facilities around them at some distance equip zones of complete exclusion, which are equipped with ordinary mortars. Crushed stone is poured into the mortars, which, when fired, creates a cloud in the path of the rocket to disable its aerodynamic rudders and guidance heads.
      Mortira is a large-diameter cannon with a short barrel. When fired with a powder charge, gravel is thrown from the mortar to a height of 100 - 150 m. When a rocket collides with fragments of gravel, its aerodynamic rudders and homing heads are damaged. Result - the rocket loses altitude, falls and explodes within the territory adjacent to the attacking object, without damaging the object.

      Based calculations carried out Resursprominvest researchers, the optimal granule size of crushed stone is 4 cm3, which provides destructive force sufficient to hit a rocket at a speed of meeting with a rocket of the order of 500-600 km / h.

      belay
  23. Hammer 19 October 2015 17: 06 New
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    However, even 500 km is a huge distance. Only the most exotic examples of Soviet anti-ship missiles (for example, Granit) were able to surpass TASM in launch range.

    But what about volcanoes with 1000 km?
  24. resh 19 October 2015 17: 34 New
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    Good, great, beautiful! If only there was enough money for mass production. All this is expensive, but a necessary thing.
  25. unsermann 19 October 2015 20: 38 New
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    All this is expensive, but a necessary thing.

    Obviously more necessary than football-2018 and Sochi raspiliad-2014. there they find money ... It would be nice to find it here too.
  26. Toorik 19 October 2015 21: 14 New
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    Finally, the question that worries the public the most: can ISCs from the Caspian Sea “get” an American aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf?

    Let's talk about this another time.


    I read it for the answer to this question and here such a bummer!
  27. Vittt 19 October 2015 22: 18 New
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    Quote: sevtrash
    And will a conversation be complete without the participation of agm129, x55 / 555, x101 / 102?

    Hearing an adequate review of Oleg Kaptsov is more expensive - everything else is the destiny of the Moscow Region, industry and political will.
  28. okroshka79 19 October 2015 22: 28 New
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    As always, a careless manner of exposing a kind of snob. Quote from this article: ... "an enemy ship could crawl away from the calculated point in just one hour," Mr. Kaptsov! The ship is not a worm to crawl! You never served in the Navy, but write about navy topics. Why is it so disrespectful to the naval people? The overwhelming majority of sailors love their ship and I consider such statements as a personal insult. I have repeatedly asked you to be more respectful to sailors in my vocabulary. Because ship terminology requires strict adherence to it. And if you doubt that the reader will not understand you, so give an explanation from the dictionary of marine terms, the benefit of them on the Internet is full. And then, in a previous article of yours, a pearl of the "top of the mast" type suddenly appeared. By the way, to our ingenious designer of rocket technology (in this case 3M10) L.V. Lyulyev, coming from you, as from a major "military specialist", got this article. Well, who are you? The article itself, as always, is weak, there are many technical errors, as others have already pointed out. Captured material from all sorts of Wikipedia, and more. I have the honor!
  29. opus 19 October 2015 22: 38 New
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    Quote: Author
    digital elevation maps were required for each individual region of the earth

    Mistake.
    No digital elevation maps are required for each area (area of ​​the entire flight / span).
    Digital elevation maps of route reference points are required (launch-target)

    circuit with DSMAC but that's not the point
    1 - start;
    2 - area of ​​the first correction according to the TERCOM system;
    3 - marching section (TERCOM correction using the NAVSTAR satellite navigation system);
    4 - path correction using the DSMAC system;

    TERCOM- Correlation a subsystem that operates in the middle section of a rocket’s flight path. It includes a computer, a radio altimeter, a set of reference maps of the areas of correction points along the flight path of the rocket. Beam width of the radio altimeter 13-15 ° (frequency range 4-8 GHz). The principle of operation of the TERCOM subsystem is based on a comparison of the terrain of a particular missile location area with reference maps of the terrain along its flight route. Terrain relief is determined by comparing radio and barometric altimeter data. The first measures the height to the surface of the earth, and the second - relative to sea level. Information about a particular terrain in digital form is entered into a computer, where it is compared with data on the relief of the actual terrain and reference maps of the districts. The computer generates correction signals for the inertial control subsystem.
    therefore
    Quote: Author
    Instead of the classic TERCOM, the domestic ZM-14 Caliber is equipped with a combined system

    Not true. we have the same “classic” TERCOM (radio and barometric altimeter + computers + electronic point maps).
    + ARGSN.

    TERCOM: due to the limited memory of the onboard computer and the short time for solving the navigation problem the nominal size is accepted 120x120m. The entire flight path of the Kyrgyz Republic over land is broken in 64 correction areas with a length of 7-8 km and a width of 48-2 km.

    Quote: Author
    Subsonic mode y both SLCM no.

    probably "supersonic" meant?
    Tk and Tomahawk 3 and ZM-14 subsonic speed
  30. litus 19 October 2015 23: 33 New
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    Quote: Andrew Y.
    Quote: Professor
    Seriously?

    Oleg, well, is it sense to troll people? There is no serious evidence of fallen "calibers", why push the water? request

    11 goals * 2 + 4 = 26 starts
  31. Old26 21 October 2015 00: 18 New
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    Quote: Fidel
    Now it’s really mattress to watch at least every barge!))

    Damn, when is it already boring to remember every barge in vain ???? The truth is now there is one more thing that will be remembered - a torpedo boat with a torpedo tube

    SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Oleg! I did not want to repeat the words of the comrade okroshka79but still repeat. "Careful" is still necessary. But sometimes you can read this, that ....
    In order not to be unfounded - I will give examples:

    1. It is placed in any secluded place (up to 122 launch cells on surface ships, up to 154 on submarines).

    The phrase at least stand - at least fall. It would be okay only about the submarine, one could understand - “in a secluded“ place. ”But on a ship, 96-122 cells - this is clearly not a“ secluded place. ”Moreover, only 4 Ohio boats can carry one and a half hundred missiles, on most of the rest vertical launchers at 12. This is so, by the way

    Next

    2. At present, Caliber missiles can carry and use 10 warships of the Russian Navy, including three Varshavyanka boats and the K-560 Severodvinsk multipurpose submarine (32 launch mines).

    But to be exact to the end, then the fleet now has not 10 warships. Only 6 are in service. The rest pass certain tests. These are two boats - the nuclear Severodvinsk and the diesel project 636 as part of the Black Sea Fleet. Plus 4 surface ships of the Caspian flotilla, which at the time became famous for their launch. In addition, dear Oleg.
    There are no 32 launch mines at Severodvinsk. On him EIGHT launchers CM-346, and in each PU are placed 4 transport and launch containers(cups)3С44 (for the complex CALIBER) Or CM-324 for the complex YACHONT

    And the last one. Here you give the designation "Caliber" -
    All of this is the Caliber missile system (NATO designation SS-N-27 Sizzler,. "Ashbringer"). Modification of NK (for launching from surface ships).


    Let's not quibble that you brought not only the NATO (Sizzler), but also American (SS-N-27) designation. Okay, you can close your eyes to this, but with the designations (American), alas, you messed up
    designation SS-N-27 applies ONLY for anti-ship missiles 3M54 / 54-1 (SS-N-27A) and 3M54E / 54E1 (SS-N-27V) Of course with indexes Т or К.
    But the 3M14 cruise missiles (with different indices) carry the state designation SS-N-30. Accordingly, export - with the letter Вfor the Russian fleet - А
    1. opus 21 October 2015 00: 56 New
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      Quote: Old26
      one could understand - "in a secluded" place ".

      Tomahawk is not very "whimsical" to the type of media and PU.

      through torpedo tubes of submarines of caliber 533 mm or more and from surface ships from inclined launchers of type ABL (Mk 143), vertical launchers Mk 41, ground-based container launchers TEL

      Quote: Old26
      But the 3M14 cruise missiles (with different indices) carry the state designation SS-N-30

      no such data (about 30, someone with a fool in the Pentagon farted in an interview with a journalist, the bachelor was clearly)

      Their last one is SS-N-29 ASW and SS-N__ Alfa

      SS-N-27: Five types of missiles - 3M-54E, 3M-54E1, 3M-14E, 91RE1 and 91RE2 - have been developed for the Club ASCM. The Club-S can be armed with a 3M-54E or 3M-54E1 anti-ship missile, 3M-14E submarine-to-coast missile or a 91RE1 anti-submarine torpedo. The Club-N can be armed with a 3M-54E or 3M-54E1 anti-ship missile, 3M-14E submarine-to-coast missile or a 91RE2 anti-submarine torpedo.



      The Novator Design Bureau developed the Club anti-sub / ship cruise missile system [sometimes referred to as the Klub, Biryuza and Alpha / Alfa]. There is some confusion as to whether the SS-N-27 designation applies to this missile, or to the P-900 Alfa [industrial code 3M-51], although the best evidence suggests that the 3M-54 Alfa is the SS-N-27, rather than the 3M-51 Alfa.
  32. Old26 21 October 2015 00: 25 New
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    Quote: litus
    11 goals * 2 + 4 = 26 starts

    There are various options. As an example
    8 targets x 2 missiles, 2 goals x 3 missiles, 1 target x 4 missiles. In total 16 + 6 + 4 = 26
  33. Old26 21 October 2015 09: 16 New
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    Let me disagree with you dear Anton, about the notation.

    I don’t know who is there or what "blurted out" at a Pentagon briefing, but I specifically do not take Wikipedia as evidence.

    As an example of the designation of naval weapons, I took a couple of resources
    www.globalsecurity.org
    (specifically http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/club.htm)
    и
    http://missilethreat.com
    (specifically http://missilethreat.com/missile-class/ss-n-30b-klub-3m-14e)

    Well, as another source - reference The Military Balance 2014. Page 183 - relates to our Navy.

    So, there already the last designation is by no means SS-N-29 ASW и SS-N__ Alfa.

    Yes, Alfa they also continue to go "without a number" ", that is SS-N__ but there are already significant changes
    In particular, now this list looks as follows, starting with SS-N-21 (I’m sorry, but I don’t write NATO)

    SS-N-21 - S-10 "Pomegranate"
    SS-N-22 - Mosquito
    SS-N-23 - SLBM R-29RM
    SS-N-X24 - 3M25 Meteorite
    SS-N-25 - 3M24 Uranus
    SS-N-26 - 3M55 Onyx / Yakhont
    SS-N-27 - 3M54 with modifications
    SS-N-Х28 - Р-39 УТТХ (Р-39М)
    SS-N-29 - 89P (RPK-9) Medvedka
    SS-N-30 - 3M14 with modifications
    SS-N-31 - no data. While free index
    SS-N-X32 - 3M30 "Mace"

    Well and of course SS-N__ Alfa
    It is not clear why the “Bulava” comes with the SS-N-X32 index - the product is no longer experienced, but otherwise everything is exactly as I wrote.
    Indeed, a couple of years ago, the indices were slightly different, in particular, “Mace” bore the designation SS-N-30, “Onyx” - SS-N-28, “Volcano” - SS-N-27. But now the list is already somewhat different (given by me above)
  34. opus 21 October 2015 09: 39 New
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    Quote: Old26
    As an example of the designation of naval weapons, I took a couple of resources

    Hi Vladimir.
    Especially for SS-N30, I shoveled a bunch of resources where I have a "pass" .. fas.org, Russia Special Weapons
    Nuclear, Biological, Chemical and Missile Proliferation News, Classification of Missile, missile index, all sorts of Pentagon presentations for the Senate in order to convince them of the costs.
    Well, no such. 30 arose literally “yesterday” at the briefing.
    www.globalsecurity.org is a type of topwar (well, more seriously essno) and The Military Balance 2014 (iss) is, as it were, not an official
    Quote: Old26
    carry the state designation SS-N-30.
    it cannot be said that way.
    here for 27 there is a NATO and US index. And for 30 only the USA? Not weird?
    and there is no "state" in fact. Western Designations DIA
    (Defense Intelligence Agency), although it is American wink
    Quote: Old26
    SS-N-X32 - 3M30 "Mace"

    SS-N-32.
    But I meant ("their last") about the Russian Naval Surface-to-Surface (SS-N) Missiles
  35. Old26 21 October 2015 20: 54 New
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    Anton, sorry, that I could not immediately answer. What can I say about the topic of our conversation. It is very difficult to say which and when the index appears. how reliable is it, etc. In principle, many of our complexes do not have a NATO name, the same SLBM R-39UTTH. It is called in the west THUNDER in English transcription GROM, but not beginning with a letter S, as it should be. This is not even the point.

    I’m trying quite tightly (of course, if possible) to keep track of materials relating to rocket and space technology (what can I do, 20 years of work in this direction have made themselves felt). Trying to keep track of all materials related to SALT / START, in particular, both State Department bulletins and the Organization of American Scientists (and other materials). And about 2-3 years ago, in such issues of the Organization of American Scientists, suddenly instead of the "Mace" SS-N-30 index appeared SS-N-32.

    On one of the resources, I wrote to the guys who now live in the USA and asked the question why. I don’t know if they went to this organization or where else, but the answer was something like this:
    In the light of the newly discovered facts, one of the earlier indices "split up" and therefore the "Mace" now has 30 instead of 32.

    In general, I was interested in Bulava and, taking note of this answer, I safely forgot about it. Well SS-N-32 and to hell with it. Recently, starting to put my marine products in order, I found that index 30 is occupied precisely by Caliber. And not anti-ship, namely, the class "Ship-Surface".

    All other products - 3M54 of all modifications and 91P with modifications are designated SS-N-27, but the "land" version is SS-N-30. And most often in publications on this topic the following phrase follows:

    Kalibr-family of missiles: the SS-N-27A Sizzler anti-ship cruise missile and the 91R ASW missile, the SS-N-30A Sagaris land-attack cruise missile.


    Pay attention, Anton. SS-N-30 also has a NATO name - Sagaris
    When the designation SS-N-30 appeared, at what Pentagon briefing, alas, I do not know.
    1. opus 22 October 2015 00: 28 New
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      Quote: Old26
      the same ballistic missile R-39UTTH. In the west it is called THROM in the English transcription GROM, but by no means beginning with the letter S,


      SS-NX-28 (Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat, National Air Intelligence Center NAIC-1031-0985-98)

      Russia plans to modernize its force with the addition of a new SLBM (the SS-NX-28) and new BOREY Class ballistic missile submarines.





      Quote: Old26
      SS-N-30 also has a NATO name - Sagaris

      Persian (Scythian, Saksky) battle ax? or in the common language "Buyan"? belay

      I appreciate the humor of NATO opponents.
      ------------------
      +

      SS-N-30A Sagaris agrees. convinced found
      ================================================== ========
      They know too much ... I even wonder where they get it?

      (It seems that it wasn’t delivered to Export, A-350ZHЭ/ 5V61Э - ABM-1E GALOSH ... it seems to be gone.
  36. 320423 22 October 2015 00: 38 New
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    I would like to direct the discussion in a different direction. Do you think there is a real chance that after the commissioning of the new 955 (955A) - type "Borey" to upgrade 667BDRM - type "Dolphin" under the medium "Caliber" like the American "Ohio".
    1. opus 22 October 2015 11: 32 New
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      Quote: 320423
      to upgrade 667BDRM - type "Dolphin" under the medium "Caliber"

      hardly.
      only after all, the R-29RMU2.1 “Liner” was tested and adopted
      on BS-64 "Moscow region" instead of the BRS installed a block of special compartments with equipment and living quarters.
      UPUVS ZS-14 in size does not "converge" with the mine of the D-9RM complex, and the tone is not suitable for underwater launch.




      There is no adapter capsule for the RK mine D-9Rm yet (we only mastered the ZS-14)

      RC from the nuclear submarine "Severodvinsk" in my opinion are not integrated into the RK D-9RM (only cut)


      because you can safely use nasal TA


      =================================
      Sorry pr.941 Shark - TYPHOON disposed of.
      here it would be possible to place 200ZM-14 pieces, and there would still be a place left).

      MINES under the P-39 of the D-19 complex allow you to weird from the heart
  37. Old26 22 October 2015 08: 15 New
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    Quote: opus
    Persian (Scythian, Saksky) battle ax? or in the common language "Buyan"? I appreciate the humor of NATO opponents.

    Yeah. But in general, ours were famous for the fact that they will give the name of the topic, so at least "take the dead man". The main thing is that the “adversary” did not guess

    Quote: 320423
    I would like to direct the discussion in a different direction. Do you think there is a real chance that after the commissioning of the new 955 (955A) - type "Borey" to upgrade 667BDRM - type "Dolphin" under the medium "Caliber" like the American "Ohio".

    To be honest - HZ. Technically, I think there will be no problems. The question is how much these corps will have to walk. And is it worth the candle. In addition, everything is clear with the Americans, these platforms can be used by them in local wars, as for example in Iraq and Yugoslavia. Do not customize several boats, but shoot one. Do we have such goals? Therefore, HZ is the most accurate answer.
  38. Old26 22 October 2015 08: 21 New
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    Quote: opus
    They know too much ... I’m even wondering where they get it? It seems that it wasn’t delivered to Export, A-350ZHE / 5V61E - ABM-1E GALOSH ... it seems that it wasn’t.

    There were so many pictures of the container that not to expect the appearance of such a “picture” would be somewhat presumptuous. What, what, but they know how to analyze. I always remember the story that has already become a christomatism about MIGs-21, when they flew for the first time abroad - to Finland. The Americans clicked on the airfield for several thousand photographs and using the Finnish military’s anthropometric data - height and head size, respectively, photos taken against the background of the air intake and nozzle made fairly accurate predictions about the engine
  39. The comment was deleted.
  40. MaximKV 11 July 2016 17: 59 New
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    "Due to the lack of an equal rival at sea, the anti-ship version of the Tomahawk was withdrawn from service in the mid-1990s."

    What the hell did you write?
    - "We have such a cool rocket that it’s even too cool that there is no ship capable of competing with it, so we are discontinuing our super mega missile, you are not worthy to destroy you, we will use less cool rockets to give you at least some chance to compete with us "

    I could not continue to read this crazy nonsense, the author go doused with cold water.