Military Review

Country 404. Battle necromancy in Ukrainian

78



An old proverb says that if a gun hangs on the stage in the first act, then it must shoot during the performance.

In the military theater of the absurd, proudly referred to as the APU, the performance continues.

We have already written about the "newest light evacuation helicopter" LEV-1, bungled from "Bell-47" and the engine for the Mi-2. We also paid attention to the "new light attack helicopter" Mi-2MSB. All this, whatever one may say, but necromancy is the purest water. I would not have got into such a museum option, even if I paid in dollars, and not in hryvnias. Purely due to a well-developed self-preservation instinct.

But there are shifts in the affairs of the ground. In Rovenky, Ukrainian workers return to artillery at an accelerated pace. We are talking about the anti-tank guns MT-12 "Rapier" and howitzers D-20.

Of course, bezrybe and cancer - quite a sturgeon. But not to the same extent ...

At one time, these guns were confident weapons in class. The only thing that strains is the fact that “time” for these guns was when I was not even in the project. In the distant sixties.

And now - I do not know what to call it, obviously not reincarnation. Rather, it is necromancy of the purest water. Fortunately, the number of these guns in Ukraine is measured not even by the dozens, but by the hundreds. And here workers of military dumps return them to a working condition.







There is no doubt that all the equipment made in the USSR was created with such a safety margin that some 50 years are nonsense for Rapier. Most likely, the majority of these guns will be brought to combat readiness.

There is, however, a question: why?

It seems to be the Minsk agreement extended. It seems to be withdrawn not only weapons over 120 mm, but smaller calibers. So MT-12 with its 100 mm also goes there. Then why all this? Whom will we be friends from "Rapier"?

Against the armored hordes LDNR? Hmm ... and they are? Against Russian armadas? Well, "Rapier" is already purely for T-72B3, for T-90 we are just silent.

It looks weird, to be honest. APU trying to arm, but for what? And why exactly this way? It is clear that it is necessary cheaper, but the question of efficiency is also not the last.

C D-20 is more or less clear. Spit 152-mm projectile in the direction of the city, it can. And, most likely, the city will fall. The target is big. But for more ... hardly.

There is, of course, the opinion that gentlemen, the Ukrainians have not been able to start producing normal gun barrels. And this necromancy is an attempt to replace the tools worn out during the ATO into the trash. But replacing one trash with another is a dubious act.

So we will soon be able to see a picture similar to the one that the militia issued in the first days, when it launched the "thirty-four" and Isa. But by the APU. Seeing the ZIS-3 in the positions under the Sands will be quite epic. That's just the problem will not solve.
Author:
78 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. mirag2
    mirag2 19 October 2015 06: 52 New
    10
    missed Putin's birthday, but better late than never:
  2. Lyapis
    Lyapis 19 October 2015 06: 52 New
    27
    Somewhere on the site, the news was already slipping that the APU was reanimating the guns of the end of the war. So MT-12 is still normal for them.
    Печально тут другое, потешаясь над украми мы как то забываем, что "Рапира" до сих пор стоит и на вооружении противотанковых дивизионов российской армии...
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 19 October 2015 07: 36 New
      14
      Quote: Lyapis
      "Рапира" до сих пор стоит и на вооружении противотанковых дивизионов российской армии...

      Only now, no one pulls them from landfills, they serve until the resource is depleted. And not so many of them remained on the general background, they are not the basis of the artillery park. We and the ISs not so long ago were removed from service, this does not mean that there are no other tanks, they were just in their place in the Far East, where for the time being they fulfilled their mission.
      1. Lyapis
        Lyapis 19 October 2015 07: 54 New
        16
        "Рапиры"-это основное орудие ПТАДн'ов мотострелковых бригад, по крайней мере центрального и восточного ВО. И когда их заменят на что-то более совершенное-никто не знает...
        1. Pfcts
          Pfcts 19 October 2015 10: 31 New
          10
          Here the question is not what weapon, but what shells are used for it. Among the range of ammunition for Rapier, there are guided missiles with a tandem cumulative warhead. So our Rapira and Ukrainian Rapira are two big differences.
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 19 October 2015 11: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: Functional
            So our Rapira and Ukrainian Rapira are two big differences.

            the difference is only in shells and equipment, the guns are the same - they differ only in age.
          2. andrey682006
            andrey682006 19 October 2015 13: 44 New
            +9
            Пушка сделана в СССР и все её боеприпасы оттуда же. Если учесть, что на Украине были склады оружия и боеприпасов СССР для большой войны в Европе, то там должны были остаться и такие ракеты, и "Кастет", и "Рута". Так что там практически тоже самое что и у нас, разница лишь в том как хранилось оружие и боеприпасы и как это всё модернизировалось.
        2. andrey682006
          andrey682006 19 October 2015 13: 55 New
          +7
          As far as I know, the foundation ptadn противотанковых полков составляют машины ПТУРС, например "Штурм". И никак не МТ-12, которые используются для засад и для обеспечения действий Штурмов.

          There are enough vehicles with ATGMs in motorized rifle regiments to consider the MT-12 a secondary weapon, used depending on the conditions - where it is tactically advantageous. As, for example, in Chechnya, on a direct fire.
          1. Vladimir 1964
            Vladimir 1964 19 October 2015 17: 01 New
            +6
            Quote: andrey682006
            Насколько я знаю, основу птадн противотанковых полков составляют машины ПТУРС, например "Штурм". И никак не МТ-12, которые используются для засад и для обеспечения действий Штурмов.
            There are enough vehicles with ATGMs in motorized rifle regiments to consider the MT-12 a secondary weapon, used depending on the conditions - where it is tactically advantageous. As, for example, in Chechnya, on a direct fire.

            В конце 80-х у меня в полку не было уже ни "штурмов" ни МТ-12, поэтому нет у меня ни опыта, ни знания в применении данных вооружений. Но вот поинтересовался у специалиста по артиллерии и услышал интересное мнение. МТ-12 в боевых действиях в локальных конфликтах на территориях так называемых "третьих" стран по соотношению цена и эффективность, даже при слабо подготовленном расчете, стоит на достаточно большой высоте. Она различными штатными боеприпасами поражает все танки типа Т-55, АМХ-30 и подобных во всех проекциях. Причем подготовки расчета требуется минимум, имеется в виду стрельба прямой наводкой.

            Type such is the opinion. hi
          2. Lyapis
            Lyapis 20 October 2015 10: 49 New
            0
            Насколько я знаю, основу птадн противотанковых полков составляют машины ПТУРС, например "Штурм".

            Говорю из собственного опыта. В бригадах в г.Алейск, Юрга и Новосибе (32-ая вроде, хотя могу ошибаться), по крайней мере полтора года назад на вооружении противотанковых дивизионов стояли мт-12. О перевооружении в них я не слышал, хоть за прошедешее время всё могло и поменяться... Но в конечном итоге, я хотел сказать только то, что "Рапиры" до сих пор в огромных количествах стоят на вооружении армии. При том находятся они отнюдь не только на базах хранения, но и в линейных частях.
      2. orthodox71
        orthodox71 19 October 2015 10: 05 New
        +9
        Is-3s stood motionless like pillboxes on a concrete base in a hurray on the Ussuri island, until they sawed it with whales. Right now no longer
    2. marlin1203
      marlin1203 19 October 2015 09: 15 New
      17
      Если эти стволы с хранения, а ресурс не выработан, то вполне себе неплохо они могут отстреляться. Артиллерия ствольная вообще весьма консервативна. Минимум тонких механизмов, почистил, смазал, прицел навесил и вперед пристреливаться. "Рапиры" так вообще стоят на вооружении наших птадн и ничего. Так что статейка так себе. Некромантия не некромантия, а если Рапира "засветит" любому танку, да еще в борт - мало не покажется. soldier
    3. Vasia kruger
      Vasia kruger 19 October 2015 10: 40 New
      +4
      So can we reanimate to sell? It is in the spirit of the times.
      1. kotvov
        kotvov 20 October 2015 11: 25 New
        0
        So can we reanimate to sell? It is in the spirit of the times. ,,
        yes they (dill) this spirit for 24 years.
    4. teacher
      teacher 19 October 2015 15: 55 New
      +2
      В Ровеньках ударными темпами украинские труженики возвращают в строй артиллерию. Речь идет о противотанковых пушках МТ-12 "Рапира" и гаубицах Д-20.

      Rovenki is LC. What did the author mean?
      1. victor
        victor 19 October 2015 21: 45 New
        0
        Maybe not everything is in order with geography, the author ??? Yes, and with those who where and for whom ??? The militia is fighting on what is ...
  3. tracker
    tracker 19 October 2015 06: 59 New
    +7
    Still, they are preparing in the big war, this is Petya in case of a big mess inside Ukraine, he can again make blood porridge in the southeast from despair.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. surrozh
    surrozh 19 October 2015 07: 05 New
    +6
    They dug Bandera from the grave, now they dig out cannons (like the sea), the trend has developed ...
    1. sagitta25
      sagitta25 19 October 2015 09: 55 New
      +4
      I never remembered your irony (this weapon that was created for centuries, it will be ready to shoot in 100 years. Perhaps not so accurately, but it can cause great damage. They have already established the production of 82mm and 120mm mortars. Guns are only a matter of time. And KhTZ already began the modernization of old self-propelled guns a little time will pass and they will again produce long-range artillery http://military-informant.com/army/v-ukraine-planiruyut-vosstanovit-polnotsennoe
      -proizvodstvo-samohodnyih-gaubits.html
      1. Olezhek
        Olezhek 19 October 2015 10: 17 New
        +2
        And the KhTW has already started upgrading the old SAUs, it will take a little time and they will again produce long-range artillery.


        You know - well, but late. Ukrainians had a chance in the summer of 14 of the year.
        Никто не будет их поддерживать бесконечно. На последней "нормандской четвёрке" им чётко сказали что с войной пора завязывать и начинать платить кредиты и делать реформы.
        And stop stealing.
      2. Forest
        Forest 19 October 2015 12: 46 New
        +4
        To repair and produce equipment that differs from the artillery that was being repaired at 40 for two years is two big differences.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2015 14: 34 New
        +4
        Quote: sagitta25
        And the KhTW has already started upgrading the old SAUs, it will take a little time and they will again produce long-range artillery.

        There is only a small problem - where can I get the barrels for this artillery? For persistent rumors have it that everything is so good with the production of barrels in Ukraine that, for example, cannons from tanks are removed from storage for the assembly of new tanks.
        1. sagitta25
          sagitta25 19 October 2015 18: 09 New
          0
          That's exactly what rumors) for example, they can do http://kba.kiev.ua
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 October 2015 18: 54 New
            0
            Quote: sagitta25
            That's exactly what rumors) for example, they can do http://kba.kiev.ua

            Oh ... it’s an hour, isn’t that the plant, on the 30-mm cannon of which there were so many complaints from the Iraqis? smile
            1. sagitta25
              sagitta25 19 October 2015 22: 38 New
              0
              The gripe of armor and not guns)
          2. Forest
            Forest 19 October 2015 22: 18 New
            +1
            Therefore, T-80 stocks drag export vehicles?
  6. Hubun
    Hubun 19 October 2015 07: 09 New
    +1
    когда "Катюши" в строй вернут???
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 19 October 2015 07: 19 New
      31
      Quote: Hubun
      когда "Катюши" в строй вернут???

      Зря иронизируете, до начала 2000-х РСЗО БМ-13М на "хранении" ещё были. Часть из них использовалась в процессе боевой подготовки войск ПВО. Возможно и до сих пор для этого применяются.

      As for the D-20 and MT-12, it is quite efficient and effective with proper artillery reconnaissance and proper fire control of the artillery system.
      At least in the Russian army they are still in service.

      The publication is overly politicized, as in the DNI and LNR artillery units there are much older 100 mm BS-3 guns (practically the same age as ZiS-3), but for some reason this does not cause any irony.
      1. Lyapis
        Lyapis 19 October 2015 07: 47 New
        12
        The publication is overly politicized, as in the DNI and LNR artillery units there are much older 100 mm BS-3 guns (practically the same age as ZiS-3), but for some reason this does not cause any irony.

        Well, this is all clear. Like it or not, but the DPR / LPR army is still a militia that takes advantage of what it was able to capture at the beginning of the uprising and during the hostilities. Not having their own military-industrial complex and the ability to buy weapons on the side, they launch what they have.
        It is a completely different matter when the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine declares that his army is the most efficient on the continent, while even what was considered obsolete half a century ago is removed from the storerooms. It’s hard to hold back the irony ...
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 19 October 2015 07: 53 New
          +7
          Quote: Lyapis
          It is a completely different matter when the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine declares that his army is the most efficient on the continent, while even what was considered obsolete half a century ago is removed from the storerooms. It’s hard to hold back the irony ...


          They can declare anything. Our high-ranking military and civilian officials are also sometimes ridiculous and feed breakfasts. There is an information war and, according to some, all means are good in it, even an open lie. negative

          Орудия представленные на фотографиях взяты не со свалок, как пишут в коментах некоторые, а с баз хранения. Где они скорей всего "хранились" под открытым небом. Неоднократно наблюдал, что и у нас гораздо более "нежная" техника хранится в таких же условиях. hi
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2015 14: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Bongo
        Зря иронизируете, до начала 2000-х РСЗО БМ-13М на "хранении" ещё были. Часть из них использовалась в процессе боевой подготовки войск ПВО. Возможно и до сих пор для этого применяются.

        And who will do the NURS? TT rockets are not stored for a long time.
        Quote: Bongo
        As for the D-20 and MT-12, it is quite efficient and effective with proper artillery reconnaissance and proper fire control of the artillery system.

        And in the presence of ammunition. Pomnitsa, Obama in the 2000s was in charge of the disposal of shells and charges in Ukraine and was shot next to the empty shells of 152-mm shells and shells from shots.
      3. Aleksandr72
        Aleksandr72 19 October 2015 19: 56 New
        +5
        In service with the Russian ground forces in 2014 consisted of:
        526 - 100-mm T-12 (MT-12) Rapier in the troops, in storage: 2000 - 100 mm T-12 (MT-12) Rapira,
        еще плюс 18 ПТО МТ-12 "Рапира" состояло в морской пехоте.
        Accordingly, 1075 - 152,4 mm D-20 howitzer guns - everything is in storage.
        And finally, you won’t believe it, but there are 100 BM-13-16 in storage (though it is not indicated which modification - BM-13N (52-U-9416) based on the ZIS-151, BM-13NM (2B7) based on ZIL-157K or BM-13NMM (2B7R) based on ZIL-131).
        I will not vouch for 100% the reliability of these figures, but these data are from the official report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the state of the Russian armed forces in 2014.
        I have the honor.
  7. Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 19 October 2015 07: 13 New
    +2
    And it was as if they were afraid of us in the cartoon-shob, and did not grin ...
  8. Sasha75
    Sasha75 19 October 2015 07: 30 New
    +7
    If you have nothing to compare with, then for you the engine will be a miracle and a limit of perfection. What is available and most importantly, perhaps the main thing this can be used by a poorly trained soldier, and here you have a miracle weapon, the main thing is that the soldier doesn’t know what’s wrong and everything will be normal; . Yes, and I forgot 35 thousand maxim machine guns in Ukraine are removed from storage and sent to the troops, so that in vain the author uses quite modern technology in comparison with Maxim's slander))). TOLI WILL STILL BE OEY
    1. vch62388
      vch62388 19 October 2015 09: 14 New
      13
      In the conditions of stationary defense (in the bunker) Maxim will give odds to the PC. You don’t need to move it anywhere, and thanks to the water cooling of the barrel, you can shoot LLC with very long bursts without fear of overheating, and thereby creating a high density of fire. Yes, and lose it when leaving is not very sorry.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2015 14: 57 New
        +5
        Quote: vch62388
        You don’t need to move it anywhere, and thanks to the water cooling of the barrel, you can shoot LLC with very long bursts without fear of overheating, and thereby creating a high density of fire.

        ЕМНИП, в 1916 году у англичан при Вердене 10 "Виккерсов" за 1 бой израсходовали 1 миллион патронов.
        ... in addition to calculations, machine guns were served by nearby infantrymen, dragging cartridges and water (in the end they even used up the contents of toilet buckets in the surrounding trenches) and dragging empty tapes for reloading
        The tapes were equipped with two (EMNIP) machines that worked almost continuously for 12 hours.
        (c) M.Popenker
    2. Victor-M
      Victor-M 19 October 2015 12: 36 New
      +1
      . TOLI WILL STILL BE OEY

      It’s scary to even think about it. belay wink laughing
    3. The point
      The point 20 October 2015 17: 26 New
      0
      Here you are laughing, but in vain.
  9. dvg79
    dvg79 19 October 2015 07: 31 New
    19
    A rapier can hit any modern tank aboard, and those who find themselves under shelling with 152mm shells anyway what type and year of the gun they were fired at.
    1. ICT
      ICT 19 October 2015 07: 48 New
      +9
      Quote: dvg79
      Rapier hits any modern tank


      and how it was discussed that getting into the forehead of the tower will in fact bring the tank out if not out of order then at least out of the battle for sure
  10. nivander
    nivander 19 October 2015 07: 39 New
    +4
    half a year ago, I predicted the appearance in the Urukhai army of T-55 \ 62 tanks and shushpanzer on their basis --- WAITED !!!!
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 19 October 2015 07: 44 New
      +9
      Quote: nivasander
      half a year ago I predicted the appearance of T-55 \ 62 tanks in the Urukhai army

      To do this, you do not have to be a great predictor request T-62M were actively used during the 2-th Chechen war by the Russian army, they are still available in the internal troops.

      1. goose
        goose 19 October 2015 11: 44 New
        +2
        For me, this is the most optimal for local conflicts such as Afghanistan, Syria, the DPR, and T-62M.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2015 15: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: Bongo
        T-62M was actively used during the 2nd Chechen war by the Russian army

        "Лысые" Т-62 (без ДЗ и "бровей Ильича") использовались ещё в 08.08.08 - были на вооружении 42 мсд. Собственно, они стали одним из символов той войны.

        Quote: Bongo
        they are still available in the internal troops.

        Interesting - with whom? It seems that TBN BB disbanded as the vertical of power strengthens. smile
        1. Sailor
          Sailor 19 October 2015 21: 13 New
          +1
          What surprised the military western states and especially Israel.
  11. parusnik
    parusnik 19 October 2015 07: 43 New
    0
    APU trying to arm, but for what? And why in this way?..Наверное, пытаются поддержать "боевой" дух..
  12. Same lech
    Same lech 19 October 2015 07: 52 New
    +2
    . And this necromancy is an attempt to replace the tools worn during the ATO in the trash. But replacing one trash with another is a dubious act


    Everything is just no money for new heavy weapons, but war is an expensive affair .... and KIEV is pulling out all the old trash and even buying all kinds of pimped and ridiculed Anglo-Saxons.
  13. Skalpel
    Skalpel 19 October 2015 08: 03 New
    +2
    When a lot of tragedy is already a comedy ... Otherwise, the situation in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and their dill government cannot be called ...
    Деньги на нормальное вооружение (и существование) распиз..ли все, вот и занимаются походом по помойкам... Но не будем забывать, что умелые руки и умные головы в свое время завалили хваленый новейший "стелс" в Югославии из "музейного" комплекса ПВО...
    So, do not underestimate the presence of these weapons in the planning and implementation of self-defense measures.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 19 October 2015 08: 06 New
      +5
      Quote: Skalpel
      в свое время завалили хваленый новейший "стелс" в Югославии из "музейного" комплекса ПВО...

      А в чём заключалась "музейность" ЗРК С-125 в 1999 году? what
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 19 October 2015 15: 46 New
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        А в чём заключалась "музейность" ЗРК С-125 в 1999 году?

        It is likely that the manufacturing country of these complexes by 1999 had already withdrawn from service even the modernized S-125s.
        In 1994, the entire European part of the Russian Federation had only 2 S-125 complexes. Of these, one is in storage.
  14. Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 19 October 2015 09: 10 New
    +5
    At stationary positions, and even well camouflaged, these guns will still serve. The barrel is so long. And a lot depends on the projectile. Is there for them with uranium cores?)))
    Besides, they cost nothing, but on paper they look menacing.
  15. Gray 43
    Gray 43 19 October 2015 09: 14 New
    +2
    They are assimilating state aid, and as soon as the loot ends, these guns will return back to the places of storage
  16. erased
    erased 19 October 2015 09: 25 New
    +7
    Any technique, even outdated, can show itself in war when used properly. So all these samples of the 60s, 70s, even 50s can do the trick.
    Something will happen in the east of Ukraine, but when and how - we don’t know for sure. And who knows - will not say. But the guns are already cooking. If only they wouldn’t click on the other side.
  17. nivander
    nivander 19 October 2015 10: 05 New
    +1
    the Urukhai’s experience of using tm-12 cannons against tanks was the most deplorable. Untrained calculations, firstly, they smeared, and secondly, they didn’t have time to get the detected battery out of the retaliatory strike —total 22
  18. Roy
    Roy 19 October 2015 10: 46 New
    +2
    While liberals are in power in Kiev, there will be no peace and harmony.
  19. Hammer
    Hammer 19 October 2015 10: 48 New
    0
    Страно, на ВО "всякое г*вно" ведь не заливают
  20. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 19 October 2015 11: 04 New
    10
    When militiamen firing from Rapier were shown,
    it was said that it was an excellent effective weapon.
    After all, any armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle, checkpoint, it carries to shreds.

    Теперь у украинцев эти 100 мм пушки, оказывается, - бесполезный "металлолом"...?
    1. Forest
      Forest 19 October 2015 12: 50 New
      +7
      The author did not try too hard to figure out the question. It is interesting to him to give a look what this Rapira is doing with the main tank of the conflict - the T-64. Yes, and 152-mm land mines that Msty, that D-20 are no different.
    2. Olezhek
      Olezhek 19 October 2015 15: 23 New
      +7
      When militiamen firing from Rapier were shown,
      it was said that it was an excellent effective weapon.

      The militias, especially at first, than just did not fight ...
      The regular Ukrainian army is something else.
      Well, or it should be something else ...

      That is why the putting into service of museum samples of equipment is a bit strange for the European power of the 1 rank of the European ...

      If you agree that Ukraine is Africa, then there is nothing to argue about ...
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 October 2015 18: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      When militiamen firing from Rapier were shown,
      it was said that it was an excellent effective weapon.
      After all, any armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle, checkpoint, it carries to shreds.

      Хе-хе-хе... вообще-то, у ополченцев были не "рапиры". А их предки - грабинские БС-3.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Теперь у украинцев эти 100 мм пушки, оказывается, - бесполезный "металлолом"...?

      Проблема в том, что ополчение - это ополчение. Ему "по умолчанию" всякое старьё полагается. Но когда то же самое старьё начинает использовать официальная армия... это всё равно, как если бы по заказу АОИ начали бы производить "кассамы".
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 20 October 2015 16: 30 New
        0
        You know, when the situation is difficult, everything is moving.
        There is such a bike in Israel: in the war for independence
        convoy of several egyptian tanks advancing
        north of the Dead Sea. Izr noticed them. reconnaissance pilot
        on the Me-109. But he didn’t have bombs. He sat near some
        farms and he attached a barrel of liquid under the plane
        fertilizers. He dropped it, and it was at that moment,
        when the Egyptian senior officer stopped the convoy and
        went out to look through binoculars. He splashed the whole form ...
        Он обиделся ("я е... такую войну") и приказал
        turn back.
  21. Yon_Silent
    Yon_Silent 19 October 2015 11: 26 New
    +3
    Interestingly, but what about their shots growing on a tree? It’s not enough to get the gun from the warehouse and bring it into God's form ... without shells and charges for them it is useless. I remember, there was the most powerful plant in Shostka, which in Soviet times produced a huge amount of explosives, pyrotechnics and other military chemistry. Well, cotton cellulose on nitrocellulose came from Central Asia, but now what? You can, of course, collect waste paper, all sorts of rags. But this is only a half measure.
    The main question is where the banderlog shells will find. Those that have already remained deadlines since the days of the USSR have all come out, not a stew after all ...
    1. RoTTor
      RoTTor 19 October 2015 19: 49 New
      +2
      The shells in artillery depots under the USSR were stricken with another three world wars. A quarter of a century has been regularly burned - on their own, or to cover theft and sale to the side - both in the Russian Federation and Ukraine, they have been floundering in the Donbas for a year, they are pushing people into the 3rd world countries during exercises, they will not exhaust them all. So enough shots.
    2. RoTTor
      RoTTor 19 October 2015 19: 49 New
      0
      The shells in artillery depots under the USSR were stricken with another three world wars. A quarter of a century has been regularly burned - on their own, or to cover theft and sale to the side - both in the Russian Federation and Ukraine, they have been floundering in the Donbas for a year, they are pushing people into the 3rd world countries during exercises, they will not exhaust them all. So enough shots.
  22. tank64rus
    tank64rus 19 October 2015 12: 01 New
    +1
    Просто "миротворцам". которые в РФ стараются слить Донбасс под любым предлогом, стоит подумать для чего это и следует помнить, что после Донбасса Крым и т.д. А Рапира нормальное орудие, просто делать это на коленке толку немного.
    1. Forest
      Forest 19 October 2015 12: 50 New
      -1
      We would like to merge - back in July 2014 the war would end.
  23. Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 19 October 2015 12: 23 New
    +3
    Техника серьёзная, грозная и может серьёзных бед натворить множество, а если ещё в умелые руки попадет... Но плюс в другом, пока их Минском сдерживают, они пущай побольше средств в эту "реставрацию" вбухивают, скорее отощают. А как известно в холоде и на голодный желудок проявлять агрессию с помощью в том числе и этого заслуженного оружия очень и очень затруднительно!
  24. Leeder
    Leeder 19 October 2015 12: 38 New
    +6
    Quote: sagitta25
    They have already established the production of 82mm and 120mm mortars.

    And you do not compare mortars with barrel artillery! The technological difference is the abyss!
    Over in Syria, mortars from any horrible pipes are made, but the gun barrel must be machined, this requires equipment, personnel, technology and much more, including special alloys and sights.
  25. rammjager
    rammjager 19 October 2015 13: 02 New
    +7
    Roman, I don’t understand your sarcasm. When something comes in for you like caliber 122 or 152, you don’t really think which barrel it came from. From a modern or outdated one. You can burn the armor from an RPG of 7 meters from 200 or from that rapiers, but for example, with 500 meters. Besides tanks there is still an infantry fighting vehicle, armored personnel carrier. Will it also not pull?
    And, by the way, Rovenki is LPR.
  26. kirgudu
    kirgudu 19 October 2015 13: 21 New
    +4
    What is, they will be at war. These guns are quite formidable weapons; there is no need to downplay their effectiveness.
  27. andrey682006
    andrey682006 19 October 2015 13: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: Lyapis
    "Рапиры"-это основное орудие ПТАДн'ов мотострелковых бригад, по крайней мере центрального и восточного ВО. И когда их заменят на что-то более совершенное-никто не знает...

    Uh, you wouldn’t write about something that you don’t know yourself and wouldn’t try to set your words as the words of everyone.

    In the Chita region, the anti-tank missile system was armed with both the MT-12 and the Sturm ATGM (according to NATO and the United States Defense Ministry AT-6 Spiral) - the Soviet anti-tank missile system with the 9M114 Cocoon supersonic missile, and ptadn было по две батареи МТ-12 и "Штурмов".

    И основным оружием были именно "Штурмы". А МТ-12 - вспомогательное оружие и для засад.
  28. walrus-a
    walrus-a 19 October 2015 14: 00 New
    +4
    It is not necessary to speak of Soviet artillery with such neglect. Artillery in good hands and with a smart head can do a lot. For example: http: //topwar.ru/1547-pod-moskvoj-voevali-pushki-vremen-russko-tureckoj-
    vojny.html.
    If interested, read it.
  29. SOB
    SOB 19 October 2015 15: 18 New
    +4
    Хватит пальцы растопыривать, а то скрючит. И Д-20 и МТ-12 отличные орудия. "Рапира" так вообще ювелирный инструмент. В умелых руках вполне себе ещё послужат.
  30. Olezhek
    Olezhek 19 October 2015 15: 34 New
    +1
    There is, of course, the opinion that gentlemen, the Ukrainians have not been able to start producing normal gun barrels.

    Here I am about the same ...
    Scrape the bottom of the barrel, what can ...
    The guns are not bad, but not for the modern European army.
  31. ARES623
    ARES623 19 October 2015 15: 52 New
    +3
    Quote: Jon_ Quiet
    The main question is where the banderlog shells will find. Those that have already remained deadlines since the days of the USSR have all come out, not a stew after all ...

    Our former allies under the Warsaw Pact today eat up the last horseradish without salt. For money, they will be happy to sell their moldy supply of BP of those times. Which, in fact, is already being done.
    All this, in general, is not funny. This is all being done to warm up the situation in LDNR, to prevent those from developing their economies, and to prevent them from developing the economy of Ukraine. Because the Kiev government is a team to eliminate Ukraine as a state. After the default is declared, and, possibly, without it, the value of all the assets of Ukraine will fall, the land will begin to be sold. And then we’ll see what the whole corps de ballet is for. Presales are simply being held in the country. And the current leadership of Ukraine will receive its mzdyu and Canadian passport .....
  32. kill the fascist
    kill the fascist 19 October 2015 17: 19 New
    +1
    and what’s a normal move, where the enemy’s armored vehicles won’t be able to defeat the combat hopak there, the restored rapiers will join in.
  33. uwzek
    uwzek 19 October 2015 17: 31 New
    +1
    Quote: Lyapis
    Somewhere on the site, the news was already slipping that the APU was reanimating the guns of the end of the war. So MT-12 is still normal for them.
    Печально тут другое, потешаясь над украми мы как то забываем, что "Рапира" до сих пор стоит и на вооружении противотанковых дивизионов российской армии...

    So for these guns we still have unshooted barrels and the ability to make fresh shells. Of course, if you understand what I mean ...
  34. RoTTor
    RoTTor 19 October 2015 19: 43 New
    0
    УкроСМИ с диким восторгом сообщили: киевский завод "Маяк" создал и освоил производство нового…миномёта.
    Well then ... Why?
    The mortar is clearly not a novelty of the military-technical revolution
    Who remembers the Soviet times, remembers the excellent for those times stereo loudspeaker 1st class “Mayak”. It was a peaceful product of the Mayak Research and Production Association.
    Now - instead of electronics, a pipe with a stove - a mortar.
    Well, that bread ... The rest of the VPK NGOs, and around the world, have long been ordered to live long: in their place are elite housing, in buildings - shopping and snack centers or countless courts ...
    In Dnepropetrovsk (or whatever his patriots renamed like desovetized), the leader of the Soviet rocket science "Yuzhmash" works ... one day a week. They are definitely not up to rockets ...
    Independently confidently catches up with Burkina Faso and dreams of becoming a member of the Organization of African Unity - to get closer to her brothers in culture and civilization, in the cannibal and pygmy section
  35. Stilet
    Stilet 19 October 2015 20: 02 New
    +2
    Я согласен с заявлением что важен снаряд, а не средство доставки. американцы подгонят свой порох и обеднённый уран, и тандемный снаряд помогут создать. Получится очень и очень. МТ-12 пушка противотанковая, а значит стреляет точно. Неприятная вещица. Интересно, а какие у укропиев ПТУР? Не "джавелин" часом? Вот вам и ПТАБ нарисовалась в украинском исполнении. А вообще - надо работать на опережение. Умный поймёт. soldier
  36. Sailor
    Sailor 19 October 2015 21: 18 New
    +2
    Yes, normal guns are quite suitable for this conflict, and there are apparently no shells for them in the warehouses of the USSR, which is depressing.
  37. Gr. Engineer
    Gr. Engineer 20 October 2015 00: 43 New
    +5
    Вообще то, оружие практически не портится со временем. На складах полно оружия Второй Мировой и даже старше. Сам на закате советской власти собственными руками перегружал штабеля бетонобойных снарядов с маркировкой 1936 года(!), и даже укупорка не сгнила, а снаряды вообще как новенькие. Порох правда в зарядах иногда вызывал сомнение - попахивал кислятинкой, но при уничтожении горел отлично. Снаряды шли в ремонт: донные взрыватели вывёртывали, тротил выплавляли паром ( прямо на землю) в огромном обвалованном карьере, старую краску удаляли щётками на токарных станках. Потом заново красили по новому ГОСТу , заново снаряжали ВВ , и снова на хранение в новых ящиках и с новыми зарядами. Что это значит? Значит, что где то хранились арт системы под этот боеприпас. Кстати трофейные немецкие винтовки и наши трёхлинейки только недавно стали понемногу распродавать, а до этого хранили. Думаю, что где то лежат и миллионы ППШ, а может и казачи пики и шашки, сам не видел, но видел огромный склад с колёсами для телег, деревянными с железным клёпанным ободом, наверно для тачанок. И всё это исправное и " к бою пригодное".
    1. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 21 October 2015 22: 41 New
      0
      "..собственными руками перегружал штабеля бетонобойных снарядов с маркировкой 1936 года(!), и даже укупорка не сгнила, а снаряды вообще как новенькие."
      Это, полагаю, от 203-мм гаубиц Б4 задел остался. Снаряду этому действительно почти ничего не будет - сплошная болванка с донным взрывателем и небольшим количеством ВВ. Страдает от долгого хранения заряд: азотистые группы разлагаются со временем и дают характерный запах мочевины...та самая "кислятинка".
      Но вот для снарядов средних калибров с более значительным коэффициентом наполнения вопрос срока хранения уже имеет значение. Если снаряжали порционным прессованием (а у 3ОФ35 к Т-12 и ее "дочке" это именно так), то покрытие (это обычно тонкий слой лака) внутри корпуса в момент прессования может быть нарушено. И со временем через эту трещинку в лаковом слое продукты разложения ВВ взаимодействуют с основным металлом снаряда, образуя пикраты, чувствительные к ударам. А такой удар можно получить как угодно - при перевозке, при случайном падении ящика, при заряжании..в общем, лотерея.
      As for the three-rulers, maxims and other goodness - your truth. The armored train, as usual, is always on our siding)