Italian technology for Boomerang?

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Recently, the media reported that the Russian Army had abandoned the domestic BTR-90 in favor of the as yet undeveloped light armored "Boomerang", which in turn is planned to be created in the coming years. The budget has already allocated 10 billion rubles for its development, and according to the plan, the developers of the armored vehicle should submit it already in 2015. It also became known that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation decided to purchase more than 1,5 thousand Italian-made Iveco LMV M65 Lynx armored cars. According to representatives of the Ministry of Defense, this will allow Russia to get the production technology of the suspension and engines for the future modular armored car "Boomerang." The fact that it was planned to establish joint production of armored vehicles in the amount of 500 vehicles per year with Iveco in the year became known in 2010, however, no one expected this turn of events.

Italian technology for Boomerang?


It would seem that priority should be given to domestic manufacturers, and the adoption of foreign models of military equipment, in particular NATO countries, for the Russian Army’s arsenal should be in line with common sense. It should be understood that these countries are positioning Russia as a potential adversary, and the purchase of their weapons strengthens the economies of the NATO countries and at the same time weakens the Russian ones. It is also necessary to decide how and what combat tasks the foreign model will perform, and most importantly, how much our military needs it and whether it meets the requirements and standards set for domestic military equipment. Also an important factor is the possibility of unification of the “foreigner” with similar domestic samples. The allegations that Russia is no longer capable of producing even its own armored vehicles are not yet believed. The same "Tiger", in my opinion, although not a masterpiece of the domestic defense industry, still surpasses the Italian model in many respects.

I think many people saw a video in the network, filmed during last year's comparative tests in Bronnitsy, where it is clearly seen that the driving characteristics of Iveco are much worse than those of Tiger. However, the tests were completed ahead of time, and according to their results, for some reason, the Italian sample was recognized as “successfully passed” (?). Then in June 2010 of the year, according to the order of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, is adopted by the Russian Army. Further, the technologies allegedly acquired together with an armored car: the ceramic armor used on it is made in Germany, then in Italy it is supplemented with high-strength polyethylene produced in Holland. The technology of its manufacture was not sold even to the Americans, they would not sell it to us under any circumstances. The strength of armor, which, according to Italian manufacturers, meets the latest standards and requirements, should be clarified - the requirements of NATO. According to these standards, armor is not considered punched, if 50% minus one hit did not lead to a breakthrough, break or crack.

According to Russian standards, at least one hit is considered breaking, after which a crack is formed in the armor. That is, if 10 hits from 4 hits armor, then all the same, according to NATO standards, is not pierced. If the crew + landing LMV M65 Lynx is 5 people, then one store SVD, equipped with armor-piercing cartridges with B-32, is enough to disable almost all crew members and troops. However, the armor protection of the car corresponds to the norm ... The temperature range of operation of the Italian machine from -32 to + 47, according to this indicator, it does not meet the requirements for domestic armored vehicles, the temperature range for which is from -50 to + 50, nevertheless military officials ignored This is what the LMV M65 Lynx came into service. At very low temperatures, ceramic armor plates simply break up when they hit even non-armor-piercing bullets. On this occasion, the question arises: how is it planned to repair damaged armor plates? Or dependence on a foreign manufacturer (read - a potential enemy, a member of NATO) is not a weakening of the defense capacity of their own country? Then this is not just a thirst for profit, but a real diversion.



Unlike the "Tiger", on which two fighters can simultaneously fire through the hatch, only one fighter can do it on the Iveco. Also the lack of loopholes for shooting from personal weapons is a big minus. In addition, it should be noted extremely unfortunate accommodation of the crew and landing force, the landing force is placed in the landing module isolated from the control module. Given the weak armor and the inability to move from the landing compartment into the control compartment, without leaving the car, it is not difficult to guess what this means for all crew members in a real battle if the driver is killed or seriously injured.

The cost of an armored car LMV M65 Lynx, depending on the configuration, ranges from 256 000 to 461 000 euro, and the cost of a domestic armored car "Tiger" is not more than 5 million rubles. How much you can build on the money of domestic armored vehicles, not inferior to foreign counterparts, is easy to calculate.
48 comments
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  1. Alexey Prikazchikov
    0
    16 November 2011 08: 46
    The article was lobbyist. It would be better if our crampons started normal machines and not shit like a tiger, especially patency made laugh, the author ay this parameter is important but much more important is survivability and it’s better for it, plus we need the armor technology that we get and the engine too, but about the possibility shooting 2 people yes at least 10, what are you bragging about? Narmalny people already make modules remotely controlled with thermal imaging cameras, and you all need to stick out the bread in the old fashioned way to get a bullet.
  2. +14
    16 November 2011 09: 22
    Mass grave for the Russian infantry.


    According to unofficial information received from the Research Institute No. 21, full tests of the Italian armored car were not carried out at all. Comparative with the Tiger - even more so! In general, it seems that Iveco LMV was put into Russian operation for one reason - to go on business trips to Italy to our high-ranking military is much more pleasant than to the provincial Arzamas.
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      +3
      16 November 2011 10: 26
      I do not believe this unofficial source, when there is nothing more to say, the gossip from the category of bapka begins.
      1. KGB161rus
        +2
        16 November 2011 13: 42
        Be patient a little, soon Ivanov will come again (if anyone of course understood what I mean).
    2. micha26
      0
      19 November 2011 16: 54
      It is very strange and incomprehensible - the tiger has an advantage over the American hammer of military modification ... and then the Italian fell out from somewhere! armored vehicles ... And why was it necessary to abandon the BTR-90 ... as if the army was specially equipped with some kind of imported junk.
  3. +5
    16 November 2011 09: 42
    general lawlessness - against all norms and rules, having corrected the tests, not fitting into the charter and not satisfying all the requirements - they took him !? can generally cancel all selection criteria! ??? in my opinion, this indicates that it is time for the Ministry of Defense to clean, and moreover, if they do not comply with their laws and requirements, and brazenly ignore them angry
    1. Sergh
      +2
      16 November 2011 10: 34
      About three or four days ago, I found a Majahideen video (I can’t find it now), the Afghans are shooting an ambush on Pindos, I say for earlier, of course, I feel sorry for the people, there were 40-50 of them there, the amers were traveling on hamers and armored trucks. It can be seen that the distance is large and the majahideen in the column of grenade launchers are mostly smearing, almost children are shooting from the rifle, but the tactics are cunning, they sat along the highway in the mountains for a kilometer and a half. I see almost everyone (very many) with a grenade launcher, continuous explosions, one hamer smoked, but still eats slowly, but the most interesting thing is that the first cars jumped, increased their speed and washed off without stopping. Then they hit the last one with three or four trucks, when it caught fire and stopped, they cut it into cabbage, they also finish off the jeep and then two turntables fly in, very low and the film doesn't know what’s next.
      I remembered about our "Tiger" with protection 6a, I sympathized with the amers, since there were practically no direct hits.
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        +5
        16 November 2011 10: 50
        Ours in Agan also did it if the concrete was knocked out and simply pushed it as the only chance to survive was just to drive fast. At the beginning we combed the area and searched the roads. We constantly did where the columns passed for landmines and ambush places. But just a mistake of amers that they do not use tactics of checkpoints do not occupy a point like we are everywhere where we can put the block posts right now the truth in Chechnya and Ingushetia they began to lower them but not all the haty here, for example, in Ingushetia and Kabardino Balkaria they really are a little left these are my personal observations.
        1. MaxArt
          +2
          16 November 2011 20: 53
          Alexey, you said everything correctly. One request: place commas ... it's horror.
  4. +8
    16 November 2011 09: 42
    As long as the civil dug ... will be managed by the Moscow Region, and there will not be more angry
  5. itr
    0
    16 November 2011 09: 42
    Why are they needed in the department of 10 people
    how to cram them there
    why for now there will be two driver-mechanics in the department then what military profession will the department refuse from the sniper, probably now they will have a whole company
    only where? in the reserve of the battalion commander?
  6. lokdok
    -5
    16 November 2011 10: 00
    Not an article but an agitation. Of course, an armored personnel carrier is better, but for some reason our soldiers ride on armor both in rain and snow. And they go in cars and do not die in large numbers under bombings, like ours.
    As for the tiger: It is certainly better, only the engine is imported, the box is imported, the abs is imported, etc. There is only domestic armor metal, which will be ours even when Iveco is assembled in Russia. In general, everyone here, of course, drives a Zhiguli, otherwise you don't know how Iveco differs from Gaza ???? Our soldiers should ride on the best, and not stupidly "endure hardships and hardships."
    1. J_silver
      0
      16 November 2011 10: 06
      You would have less faith in fairy tales about the safety of personnel during explosions in imported equipment - firstly, they never encountered real opponents, equivalent to ours, and secondly, they never told the truth about their losses ...
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        0
        16 November 2011 10: 23
        Most of all, in this oh article I was furious about the ability to shoot 2 people. All narmola people make already remotely controlled modules so that the fighter doesn’t get under the bullets, while the module is equipped with a thermal imaging camera with an alestic calculator and as a result, accuracy increases and losses are reduced, plus they try to stuff the same on-board computer on the wolf with electronics, plus modularity, At the same time, the quality and habitability of the machine at Iveco is better than they are sobbing, let them initially raise the production culture. And Iveco bought because of the armor technology of the transmission engine, that is, where we fell behind and n6e because they are trying to sell my homeland to me, these screams are already enraging.
        1. Tjumenec72
          0
          16 November 2011 15: 34
          In lynx, it is the armor that is interesting, but the Italian have no license for it.
          1. Alexey Prikazchikov
            -3
            16 November 2011 15: 50
            They will buy it from another country, they’ll be preparing documents, it’s funny that even the Pindos didn’t sell a license for it, but they sell it to us.
            1. +1
              16 November 2011 18: 13
              like the Germans want to buy
              1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                0
                17 November 2011 02: 28
                Ney about the polyethylene armor, it is the Italians' ceramics from the Italians, and the Germans have steel, but we take licenses and production lines, but now 3 industrialization is underway.
    2. 0
      28 November 2011 15: 45
      I want to note that the Tiger has our suspension, and leading its pedigree from the BTR-80, in fact, this Tiger has outstanding off-road qualities.
  7. lokdok
    +2
    16 November 2011 10: 09
    Of course, only their soldiers do not climb jeeps, 100% knowing that inside of them they end like ours.
  8. itr
    +3
    16 November 2011 10: 28
    Damn guys in my opinion Serdyukov on the site was promoted all bastards wink
  9. dred
    +1
    16 November 2011 10: 33
    Taburetkin coward and crook.
  10. +2
    16 November 2011 10: 40
    The Germans themselves are not ashamed to put Fiat engines on Opel (and Iveco is Fiat)
    1. itr
      0
      16 November 2011 11: 28
      imeko used to be called Magirus, it was German and there wasn’t a single fiat engine
      and Iveco Italian car like Fiat
  11. -1
    16 November 2011 11: 27
    modular armored car "Boomerang" Dude, do you even understand what you write ??
    Now on the topic, recently the general director of the Military-Industrial Company Dmitry Galkin stated the following: “within the framework of the“ permissible possibilities ”, it is planned to use promising foreign developments in this area. "We are now open in this regard, and where the country's defense capability and security allows us, we use the best practices that exist in the world."
    In general, Italians went an interesting way. They abandoned the blunt build-up of armor, and relied on fully autonomous armored modules. Let me remind you that with Iveco, only a compact crew capsule is closed with ceramic armor. In general, they recommended this concept in Rheinmetall, not hoping that Italians would be able to make a technological breakthrough in this area. Draw your own conclusions.
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      0
      16 November 2011 11: 56
      Well, about the modality, I think there’s nothing stupid here; there’s an example of this Wolf machine
      1. 0
        16 November 2011 14: 09
        armored car "Boomerang"
        That's clearer?
        1. Alexey Prikazchikov
          0
          16 November 2011 14: 14
          Uh, honestly, there’s no Boomerang, I’m talking about Mrap, and an armored car is a couple, but a class is different, even a tiger Mrap.
          1. 0
            16 November 2011 14: 39
            Eh ... here is the journalist and confused everything in the world. "Boomerang" is (here I will give an excerpt from NIR) wheeled combat vehicle LKM (light class by weight), i.e. development of the theme of the modular "BTR
            1. Alexey Prikazchikov
              -1
              16 November 2011 15: 01
              Ahhh well now it’s clear, but I thought that the armored personnel carrier is Kurgan 25 but it turns out the other way around. I just know that there are 2 modular wheeled platforms, one for medium etol armored personnel carriers and another one for modular but also for light brigates and armata for heavy ones, but it is tracked.
              1. Tjumenec72
                +1
                16 November 2011 15: 44
                modularity trend of the season)))
                1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                  -3
                  16 November 2011 15: 52
                  Well, what did you want in the first rear so much load is removed from them in the second training of personnel, a BMP driver can become a tanker in the third, maintainability it is higher and a lot of pluses and cost reduction is just what it costs.
  12. Owl
    +4
    16 November 2011 12: 56
    To plant the "leaders" of the Ministry of Defense, who made this "correct" decision, in this Iveco facility and work on them 2-3 times from RPG-7V, in "defense of the domestic manufacturer."
  13. kostya
    +2
    16 November 2011 16: 30
    why the hell ... they gave us these iveko they are much worse than a tiger, and more expensive, he’s cross-country about anything. it’s just that someone from the Moscow Oblast looks like it’s welded on this om. bastards are selling !!!
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      +1
      16 November 2011 16: 40
      You think in terms of civilian military passability is important, but protection is more important and better than ivek, and the tiger is better to tell this terrible secret to the Brazilian engine, and just what kind of way to say and not say b. I don’t say that our equipment is bad, it’s not great and brilliant, BUT we don’t have experience in the construction of scraps in the West, it’s a huge experience and we all just learn from the technology of the production line, plus it’s also a political decision, all the more it’s a good way to patrol the PCP otherwise they were a little instrumented and most importantly no one refused to buy tigers.
      1. kostya
        +3
        16 November 2011 16: 52
        regarding the protection on this site, the tiger has already been compared with iveco here is the link http://topwar.ru/5439-iveco-protiv-tigra-ili-kak-nam-vrut.html it clearly says that it’s worse for protection than the tiger
  14. Artemka
    +2
    16 November 2011 17: 02
    What is there to think you need to buy Tigers, not foreign counterparts.
  15. +1
    16 November 2011 18: 10
    it’s like it’s written in the article that you need a suspension and an engine (possibly a transmission) it’s quite realistic that you agreed to give these licenses in case of purchasing a certain batch, the armor may not be of any interest to me at all, and it’s ridiculous to develop such basic things for how many years can not
    and nobody seems to have abandoned the tiger
  16. +2
    16 November 2011 18: 28
    I don’t understand one thing. TECHNOLOGIES from a 6 ton 4-axle armored car with a frame leaky body on the frame, in fact an armored car, can be used in the design and manufacture of a 20-25 ton wheeled combat vehicle with a sealed support body., also a floating ...... ???? ??????????
    HOW does this apply to Boomerang ????????????????
  17. 0
    16 November 2011 19: 11
    Sergh
    not this video?
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9f0_1252754150
  18. Filin
    +3
    16 November 2011 21: 32
    lokdok
    Of course, only their soldiers do not climb jeeps, 100% knowing that inside of them they end like ours.


    Our fighters ride on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles from above because when fired there is a greater chance of surviving an explosion, which has been proved more than once by practice.
    Foreign troops go inside for one common reason - INSURANCE. For the contract states that the fighter will not receive the due payments for injury or death (relatives) if certain clauses of the contract are not fulfilled.
    In these paragraphs it is prescribed that the fighter must wear body armor, a helmet ...... and ride INSIDE the equipment. For injuries without a helmet and without body armor - payments are also not due, or the issue is being considered.
    NATO equipment is the same moving targets as our technology.
    You can find photos of the disassembled equipment on the Internet without difficulty. And any equipment, even super secure.
    Therefore, NATO fighters may be and would like to ride on top ..... yes, they just CAN'T.
    That’s the whole reason ..
  19. J_silver
    0
    16 November 2011 21: 54
    Our relative in Afghanistan was blown up while riding on the armor - he cost a simple shell shock, otherwise he would have been scraped off the walls ... And ours didn’t have any insurance, and did not even think about it ...
  20. 0
    16 November 2011 23: 31
    Therefore, NATO fighters may be and would like to ride on top ..... yes, they just CAN'T.
    That’s the whole reason ..

    ???????????????? Mrap and created so as not to sit on the armor .... enough to carry nonsense
  21. +1
    16 November 2011 23: 51
    the Russian mafia merged with the Italian one back in the 80s, when the decision was made to produce at our facilities Fiata (a penny) cracking at the seams on our roads, in exchange for a more promising and modern Renault ... so what to say now
    1. 0
      28 November 2011 15: 50
      complete nonsense (about fiat and mafia). Fiat at that time was the best (officially recognized) car in its class. And Renault. no one would have sold us. In general, the sale was carried out only thanks to lobbying by the Italian Communist Party. Learn materiel as they say .......
  22. Filin
    +4
    17 November 2011 00: 25
    rumpeljschtizhen

    I wrote only about armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles ...... read carefully.
    The movement INSIDE and OUTSIDE has its advantages and disadvantages. You yourself have spent more than one day on the armor, so about WRONG you tell the 15-year-old internet know-it-all ... there are many of them.
    Any equipment, including tanks (we don’t take equipment with anti-mine protection) ... is a mass grave when a mine is blown up. Anyone who has ever seen a vehicle after a blast has a wild reluctance to ride inside.
    Outside, there are also cons. When firing small arms and explosions of the IEDs with striking elements - the soldiers are swept away from the armor, But riding outside accelerates dismounting and taking up positions for return fire.
    Almost all NATO BMPs have a rear ramp and do not have side-wing doors.
    With a classic ambush in the mountains and a BMP stop in a convoy, it is enough to keep the ramp on the sight to prevent the landing force from dismounting .. or to interrupt. Fire is usually from above - directly and from above - diagonally.
    With any hit by an RPG, almost all of the cargo is 200 inside.
    In a situation where the personnel are on top, a grenade entering an infantry fighting vehicle does not entail such consequences. Plus, when fired, there is a chance to quickly dismount and take up defense, and not jump out one at a time under machine-gun fire.
    MRAP is a separate story. This technique is not much in all armies. And usually the size of these machines with a small grocery store.
    But this is all the lyrics.
    I just wrote that in the NATO armies ........ movement from above (like wearing body armor and helmets) is linked to the payment of insurance .....
  23. -1
    17 November 2011 01: 02
    I just wrote that in the NATO armies ........ movement from above (like wearing body armor and helmets) is linked to the payment of insurance ...

    with all due respect Filin you categorically .. wrote about this they say they would be glad (of which I doubt) but it is impossible.
    on the video about which Sergh spoke
    it can be seen that the Afghan fired at the convoy as you describe, I agree with you if they get from the granotomet then the khan and MRAP and armored personnel carriers .. but they let out RPGs before the fig .. and there were few ...
    And MDI produce a lot ...
    when a land mine is blown up .. there are more chances to survive in the MCI than on the armor .. (and the main thing the alliance faced was just a mine war)
  24. 0
    17 November 2011 07: 04
    I am ashamed of both the Ministry of Defense (it’s more logical to call anti-defense, since what is being done ..... does not fit into the framework of logic), and for ourselves .... who are unobtrusively held for cattle ..
    There is a thought-to create a community, here..that's where in the infospace. Can’t it be impossible to attract at least funds for stupid squandering .. one or two court statements do not weigh anything .. mass, I think. Though there will be something.
  25. Slavahom
    0
    23 November 2011 10: 14
    Chassis from the tank Christie forgot. Bought from an American. They made the T-34 in the end.
  26. Belmax999
    0
    4 January 2012 00: 39
    FILIN reading all the offices you took part in the b / d along the way, in the article the bazaar about the combat effectiveness of this damn super machine, I may be behind the times, but I don't need such a device in a war, even in a local one, you probably know what the Czechs usually arranged "horseshoe" -type ambushes in the Russian army, such crap is not applied according to the charter, so there are no clear instructions for this, God had mercy on me I didn't get into this ass .. When I served (94 OBRON), the main work was done by "zushki" on shishigas, drums groups on armored personnel carriers burned twice, only AZDN and saved, but I'm talking about, our army needs a maneuverable vehicle with an unkillable engine, the chassis is shorter like the latter's armored personnel carriers, and not the coffin of a foreign car,
  27. Kamow
    0
    11 January 2012 21: 10
    It is sad.
    It can't be so simple and bad here. Well, it’s not in vain that against the background of wild investments in their own industry — and Boomerang, Armata, all kinds of typhoons, an average tracked platform — they suddenly take and buy bourgeois semi-slag. To the floor - because the candy is outside, and this candy will fall apart in the troops or not, no one knows yet.
    Time will tell, comrades. It may really get some right technological points from this product ...