Plans of the Ukrainian aviation industry look like science fiction

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Plans of the Ukrainian aviation industry look like science fictionThe new leadership of the legendary Ukrainian aviation enterprise "Antonov" dreams of reaching the level of production of the USSR - 200 aircraft per year, and in cooperation with the West. Such statements look like sheer fiction, but Ukraine has few real benefits from joint projects with Europe. The next reform of the Ukrainian aviation industry will most likely end with its final liquidation.

The leadership of the Ukrainian aircraft concern Antonov at the Le Bourget air show announced its ambitious plans. Their essence boils down to the fact that instead of decreasing historical cooperation with Russia (due to Kiev’s ban on military-technical cooperation with a neighbor) Antonov is trying to survive through cooperation with other countries, and not only European ones.

“The President and the Government of Ukraine determined aviation the sector as strategic for security and the state’s economy, ”said Roman Romanov, new general director of Ukroboronprom Group of Companies (which includes Antonov Group of Companies). The main goal is to increase the annual production of aircraft to 50 units per year, and "then reach the USSR output level of 200 aircraft per year," Romanov said very seriously.
Given that in the period from 2000 to 2013, the year in Ukraine was made annually from zero to six aircraft, the plan to reach the level of 50 aircraft per year already looks extremely ambitious. As for the Soviet indicators, they are completely from the category of fiction.

“To reach the capacity of the Soviet years, that is, about 200 boards per year, the company needs at least a similar infrastructure, power and the ability to obtain components and components under conditions that allow them to win at a price with competitors. It is difficult even with the support of European and American manufacturers. And given the high level of political instability in the country, foreign investment is unlikely to flow in the future over the coming years, ”says Dmitry Lepeshkin from QB Finance.

But the cooperation of Ukraine and Russia after the collapse of the USSR was based on the fact that Ukraine has a strong scientific background, developers and engines, and Russia has production facilities, money and demand.

The following words of the protégé of the new government sounded no less surprising: “Ukrainian citizens will fly in Ukrainian-made aircraft”. The plans are even more fantastic, given that Ukraine simply does not have the full line of civil aircraft needed for modern airlines.

Romanov declares that the Antonov State Enterprise today has powerful intellectual, material and managerial capabilities in order to become the world leader in the field of aircraft manufacturing. There are no doubts about the intellectual potential of the Ukrainian aviation industry, but with the material and managerial capabilities the top manager obviously got excited. Ukraine had to abandon Russian orders, and a lot of money was not found in the budget: the country itself was in debt, and it would take even a decade to get out of the crisis and restore the financial system.

The announced new projects of Antonov, designed to be implemented without cooperation with the Russian aviation industry, look no less fantastic or threaten the loss of intellectual property and technology.
First, Antonov announced the development of the An-132 aircraft project, which so far exists only on paper. In fact, it will be a modernized An-32, created in Soviet times. This project is amazing because it is not about creating production in Ukraine, but actually about selling technology abroad, and not even to Europe, but to the Middle East.

At Le Bourget, the Antonov company stated with pride that it had reached an agreement with Saudi Arabia and promised to build a plant for the production of this aircraft in the Arab territory. German specialists will provide it with technologies, Ukraine will oversee the construction, and mainly local will build. According to the laws of Saudi Arabia, their employees in such a scheme should be at least 70%.

The essence of the deal: the King Abdulaziz Science and Technology Center (KACST) and the local investment company Taqnia Aeronautics, together with Antonov, will refine the existing model of the An-32 aircraft. In fact, the Saudis will give money to Ukrainian engineers bring the characteristics of the aircraft to mind in terms of payload, flight range and take-off parameters, as well as reduced fuel consumption by 30%. This will be the new model An-132. At the same time, Saudi Arabia will receive intellectual property rights on the aircraft along with its drawings.

The Saudis want to lay the first stone of the plant already in the 2016 year, and in 2017 the new An-132 should be shown in Le Bourget already in the metal.

The Saudis are attracted by the fact that this transport aircraft can land in sand dunes, fly in conditions of dust storms and in hot weather up to 50 degrees, while it is distinguished by its practicality and low cost. And there is a demand for such an aircraft on the global aviation market. After all, such an aircraft (with its refinement) is irreplaceable for military aviation, for cargo transportation, and for emergency services.

Earlier it was said that Saudi Arabia is ready to invest 3 billion dollars in this project. Here are just pragmatic Arabs are not going to invest them in Ukrainian production, but Kiev for some reason looks at it through his fingers and even rejoices.

Why does Antonov and Ukraine need to create an aircraft industry in a foreign country, and not to revive it - at home? “If production is organized in another country, taxes will be paid in Saudi Arabia, jobs will be created in Saudi Arabia, and Antonov will most likely receive only royalties, royalties and fulfill orders for a certain percentage of nodes “, - says Dmitry Lepeshkin from QB Finance to the VIEW newspaper. Possible payments from the Saudis for each aircraft sold is clearly not the scale of profit that Ukraine could have.
Thus, the voiced project itself looks promising, only here is the budget of Ukraine, which means that ordinary Ukrainians will receive bits from it.

Another project that proudly unveiled Ukroboronprom at Le Bourget is the An-188 transport, which is supposed to transport cargo up to 40 tons. In fact, it is a reworked An-70 with a new engine. Several options are considered as an engine: a Ukrainian turbojet (which is also proposed to be used on An-178) or so far only developed AI-28 (both produced by Motor-Sich). As an option, the use of Western-made engines is also proposed. An-188 equipment and systems must be "Ukrainian and Western production."

And finally, "Antonov" is going to develop a "westernized" modification of the An-178, equipping it with fully Western equipment and a General Electric CF34-10 or Pratt & Whitney PW1500 series engine. The goal of westernization is to replace Russian components with European ones. Kiev is going to do this with the help of Poland. Recently, at the Ukrainian-Polish forum, Antonov announced that, together with Warsaw, it would Westernize the entire An family and also organize joint production of aircraft based on the An models.

However, apart from discussions, real agreements have not yet reached - and are unlikely to reach. “Firstly, Poland is not an aircraft-building power that could help Ukraine in any way. Ukraine is one hundred goals higher; in fact, it is an aircraft-building power. And all that was being built in Poland were Russian licenses thanks to Soviet history. Nothing independent was created there, and such an aviation school as in Ukraine is not there, ”says Roman Gusarov, editor of the Avia.ru portal. “All they could help Ukraine with is money, if Poland had it. But she would have to make ends meet, ”said the aviation expert.

And the project of the Westernization of the An aircraft means that it has to go the same way, difficult and long way, which Sukhoi SuperJet 100 passed in due time. Because to replace Russian components and assemblies with European ones means to practically create an aircraft from scratch, which will still need to be certified.

For example: only tests and certification of the Russian SSJ 100 aircraft took four years (from 2008 to 2011 years). Investments in this project from the start of development to a commercial flight in 2011 are estimated at 7 billion dollars, almost half of which was provided by the state. Kiev has no such money, the potential partner, Poland, also. About others who want to invest in the Ukrainian "Antonov" and in the Westernization of the family "An" - can not hear anything.

“If we talk about the production of civilian jet liners, then the position of Antonov is not as stable as in the market of turboprop aircraft. The main customer today is Russia, before which Antonov has already completed a significant part of orders. Antonov will be extremely hard on the world market, where European Airbus and American Boeing dominate.

Even with the support from Europe and the United States, Antonov does not shine from these titans a significant market share, Dmitry Lepeshkin is sure. At the same time, Europe and the United States do not show a desire to help the Ukrainian aircraft industry.

And the transfer of aircraft to European components is again extremely disadvantageous to Ukraine itself. “If the main components and even the engines are of foreign production, then, in essence, this is a large-unit assembly, and not a full-fledged production,” the expert notes. Not to mention that the increase in the share of imports will make the cost of production in Ukraine high, and the final product will lose its competitiveness. Meanwhile, with the financial support of Antonov, it is up to me to establish the production of a full cycle of aircraft at our own facilities with a minimum share of imports, Lepeshkin notes.

However, all announced deals pursue exactly the opposite goals. And this means only one thing - they are extremely disadvantageous to the country. Kiev literally sells the competence of Ukraine as one of the aircraft manufacturing powers thanks to the legendary designer Antonov. In the end, she just lose this title.
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  1. +20
    28 June 2015 07: 24
    From the article "Kiev is going to do this with the help of Poland. Recently, at the Ukrainian-Polish forum, Antonov announced that, together with Warsaw, it will Westernize the entire An family and will also organize joint production of aircraft based on the An models."
    Oh well. In the late 80s, he worked at the Voronezh aircraft plant, through cooperation within the CMEA framework, we received components from Poland (units, assemblies) - well, some of them did not even unpack them and stood on the street for years. I myself did not work with them, but my colleagues said: everything that the psheki did could not be used, it was a complete marriage. But they continued to buy all the same, supporting the Polish "aviation industry".
    I think that if we already have, despite the fact that the airline is poor and poor, but the terrible shortage of qualified personnel has survived now, then the Psheks have no such personnel.
    Vootoot, and I wonder why there pshek with Ukrainians westernize.
    1. +9
      28 June 2015 07: 55
      Now in Ukraine only plans can build ...
      1. +7
        28 June 2015 08: 01
        Quote: Hagakure
        Now in Ukraine only plans can build ...


        First they will smoke a plan, and only then they will make plans.
      2. +6
        28 June 2015 09: 23
        at one time "Antonov" planned a whole line of passenger liners (An-180, -218, etc.).

        but even at that (cloudless) time (with well-established connections, proven suppliers), it was necessary to build dozens of similar machines (to recoup the development and design costs). and it still took time. which was not enough for "Antonov". what can we say about the current situation in civil aviation. look for new suppliers (since Russia is not in favor), establish new connections. and all this is close to the "aircraft manufacturing giants" Boeing and Airbus. something tells me that "there will be no business" ... recourse
      3. avt
        +5
        28 June 2015 09: 54
        Quote: Hagakure
        Now in Ukraine only plans can build ...

        No. They can’t, they can only smoke plans and fly in glitches. wassat
        1. +6
          28 June 2015 15: 20
          It’s not true - we still have special, maidan tea, we have tea - I drank it — and you don’t even need to smoke. Envy.
      4. +3
        28 June 2015 15: 18
        Yes, to hell with them, with airplanes - we will dig a new sea - from the Byalorusian hawk to the Rostov mountains, and from Lemberg to Odessa ...
        1. +1
          28 June 2015 20: 31
          here tse dilo !!! wink
    2. +8
      28 June 2015 08: 25
      The only thing that PSheks and Ukrainians have been able to do together in the field of aviation for 23 years of "non-stagnation" is to slightly modernize the ancient An-3, the origins of which go back to the An-2, the first post-war brainchild of the OKB design bureau. Antonov.
      "The task of creating a modern version of the legendary An-2 is currently being solved by the joint efforts of the Antonov State Enterprise and Motor Sich JSC. A variant of the aircraft redesign with the maximum use of domestic products and production is proposed. The modernized aircraft, named An-2-100, differs from the usual "two" first of all:
      a power plant with a new MS-14 main turbo-prop engine developed by Motor Sich JSC, replacing the ASh-62IR piston engine;
      air reversible propeller AV-17, created by the Russian OJSC NPP Aerosila instead of the AV-2 propeller.
      The fundamental difference between the An-2-100 and the previously built An-3 is the significantly lower cost of reworking the original An-2. Since one of the main reasons for stopping the An-3 program was the excessive cost, which exceeded 2 million USD for one aircraft, the task was set to minimize the price of the updated aircraft. Therefore, they decided to abandon the expensive fuselage insert with a door for the crew, as was the case on the An-3, and update the instrumentation and electronic equipment only to the minimum required amount. According to our estimates, this will reduce the cost of converting the piston An-2 into a turboprop version by more than two times compared to the An-3. "
      The result was a deteriorated An-3 - a Polish turboprop version of the Soviet An-2.
      in the photo: An-2-100
    3. 0
      28 June 2015 14: 05
      Request for help! For a complex surgical operation on the face and subsequent rehabilitation (removal of traces of many sutures), I, Alexander Romanov, need money. Laser scar removal and procedures alone will cost about sixty thousand rubles. General treatment is expensive, therefore, I appeal to all concerned comrades from the Military Review. Operations will be carried out in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and Khabarovsk. Help, if possible.
      Sberbank card 4276 7000 1527 1699
      Yandex 410013268540198

      Really, I confirm !!!
      1. 0
        28 June 2015 21: 46
        I asked you to convey (by phone) to you all THANKS! From myself I will add a low bow to you forum users! hi
    4. +3
      28 June 2015 16: 37
      Antonov's KB is one thing, but the goat that this KB was taken from Novosibirsk to Ukraine either on a stake or an aspen stake to hammer into the grave. Two bastards, Khrushchev and Brezhnev, as first secretaries, did a little more to send them to Kiev by mail. it would be, on the contrary, our brothers would have performed this action right there. By the way, even Lenin, so as not to give Svidomo? so let him be "thanked" as they can. Well, we Russians have already well remembered what it is like when we are ruled by a non-Russian!
    5. 0
      29 June 2015 07: 04
      Is something like that affecting them ???
  2. +10
    28 June 2015 07: 31
    Not a single company from the countries included in the internal affairs department (not counting Russia) was able to enter the world market of high-tech goods as an independent player, claiming a more or less significant share of this market. I am sure that the Ukrainian Antonov will not be an exception to this rule for so many reasons. I will list briefly the main, in my opinion, reasons. First and foremost, the lack of financial resources for investment in the aircraft industry. For example, investments in the development of the Bombardier CS100 amounted to $ 3,4 billion and this is only development, excluding the investments necessary to start production and market promotion. Lack of market. The old sales market has been lost, there is no money to promote aircraft in new sales markets, and without preferential, at first, conditions for the sale of aircraft (even if they can be developed and produced) new markets cannot be conquered. Need the opportunity to provide soft loans to customers to buy new aircraft from Antonov. There are no resources for this and is not expected. And finally, the degradation of personnel. Designers, engineers and skilled workers retire, leave in search of a better share abroad, including and to Russia, go into business. Moreover, in the absence of orders, engineers and workers who came to the place of those who left (if at all someone comes to the place of those who left) do not have the opportunity to acquire the necessary skills and qualifications. As a result of this process - an irrevocable loss of the necessary competencies by manufacturers and developers of aircraft. I think now we can talk about the loss by Ukraine of the opportunity to independently develop and produce competitive aircraft. Even if this is not so, this is the business of the next few years.
    1. +7
      28 June 2015 07: 45
      All the reasons you have given are justified and correct, but they are for a normal state. And on the outskirts of power now there are temporary workers with two, three citizenships and a desire to snatch today and a lot. The president of the Square has promised only in recent months that he will rearm the army and the fleet, and now hands finally reached aviation. Well, if one can say about Russia, they steal, then about Ukraine at this stage this word can be pronounced endlessly.
      1. +3
        28 June 2015 07: 57
        Nevertheless, the aviation industry in Ukraine will not die of what Poroshenko wants, he might be glad to make it develop, in the end, the revival of the aviation industry is a powerful trump card in the political struggle, there are simply a lot of reasons (I have listed the main ones) according to which the revival of the Ukrainian aviation industry is objectively impossible. Therefore, Poroshenko can only give promises that will never be fulfilled. But he, speaking to the workers of aviation enterprises, cannot say that all of them will lose their jobs in a couple of years, all that remains is to lie.
        1. +1
          28 June 2015 08: 18
          Yes, I agree with you at 120%. But they lie not only to workers. The same was voiced at the air show in La Bourget. That is, let Europe eat what it spawned.
        2. 0
          28 June 2015 15: 25
          Praastite, pazhalsta, and who will pay wages to these workers for “a couple of years” !!! Just Pan Valtsman will give them wings and send them to fly to the ATO.
  3. +4
    28 June 2015 07: 31
    dream!!! but not when it’s not harmful to dream, Dill will soon sell everything, but what's next? a geyropa is not waiting for them, the question arises, Dill what will you do when the technologies from the post-Soviet space run out, and even money from abroad? How will you live?
    1. 0
      28 June 2015 15: 28
      We’ll dig a new sea. We don’t get used to it. Il Okiyan - Byalorussky, a Schob aircraft carrier named after a stubborn dog could not have arrived at Chernobyl at once.
  4. +3
    28 June 2015 07: 34
    Moonshine giblets get drunk, and then from a hangover begins to "re-create and build" the fleet, then 200 aircraft ...

    And what else can come to the patient, and without alcohol, the head.
  5. +1
    28 June 2015 07: 36
    What should they say, justifying their existence, let them dream ...
  6. +5
    28 June 2015 07: 54
    Two, ambitious plans! And there are experts, but there are fewer and fewer hopes! In the new conditions
    thinking not about fantasies, but about survival ... After the collapse of the USSR, I worked at the factory that washed the minaviaprom.
    Management plans were Napoleonic ... Now the factory also exists and works ... It only declined
    every five times, both in area and in personnel. And several factories in Saratov ceased to exist
    at all! The Ukrainian situation now resembles that era of timelessness in our country. We are still like that, with a creak,
    leaving her. Something and how it rises, is being built, restored. Though at a low speed, but
    moving!
    I wonder what Ukraine has been doing for these twenty years. What has been done? Why did the second collapse
    industrialization? Why continue to smash industry and agriculture?
    And many more why ...
    1. +2
      28 June 2015 08: 05
      You are an optimist. Speaking about the fact that there are specialists in Ukraine. Maybe there were experts by the standards of the 90s of the 20th century, but technology does not stand still all over the world and what was super-modern in the 1990s is now hopelessly outdated, but specialists by the standards of 2015 in Ukraine no longer. Moreover, unlike Russia, Ukraine does not have the money necessary to prepare these specialists and enable them to learn and acquire the competencies necessary to be considered an expert by the standards of 2015 from their mistakes. The aircraft industry in Ukraine finally died at the moment when the Maidan won there.
  7. +9
    28 June 2015 07: 54
    What are their planes ?! 70% of lard on the Ukrainian market is imported from neighboring countries! If the agriculture in the "granary of the USSR" has fallen out, what the hell is the aviation industry!
  8. +5
    28 June 2015 08: 15
    Quote: Valery Valery
    What are their planes ?! 70% of lard on the Ukrainian market is imported from neighboring countries! If the agriculture in the "granary of the USSR" has fallen out, what the hell is the aviation industry!


    The following words of the protégé of the new government sounded no less surprising: “Ukrainian citizens will fly in Ukrainian-made aircraft”. The plans are even more fantastic, given that Ukraine simply does not have the full line of civil aircraft needed for modern airlines.

    I think that here we can also compare the statements of our authorities that we will fly on domestic aircraft, but when? under communism or under imperialism, but for now we fly on watermelons, Boeing, bombardier and so on, and our planes are somewhere in secret hangars. Glory to Pogosyan, Manturov and the hedgehog with them traitors.
    1. +1
      28 June 2015 09: 12
      And where to fly then? To the West without a visa, no matter how ...
      1. FID
        +2
        28 June 2015 13: 41
        Quote: wandlitz
        And where to fly then? To the West without a visa, no matter how ...

        And you look, by the way, on a map of the Russian Federation ... Even visas are not needed ...
  9. +4
    28 June 2015 08: 36
    You shouldn't listen to the nonsense carried by the Ukrainian leadership. These people live in a virtual world that is in no way compatible with the real one. Only Russia was interested in Ukrainian enterprises, the West, Ukrainian production "to a light", they needed their own markets and they did not need an extra competitor. "Napoleonic plans" of Kiev is propaganda for its own people, since the Kiev leadership can only dream, but the reality is that Ukraine lost its independence, and Ukraine's economy is on the verge of collapse
    1. +3
      28 June 2015 11: 49
      Yanukovych offered the An-70 to the EU, he was told that the An-70 would not go to the EU, although it is good. Poroshenko will say the same. And the "bloody Putin regime" is clearly not going to buy new "An".
  10. +4
    28 June 2015 08: 53
    Yes, even if they want it very much, it will not work in such a situation. I watched a documentary, where one of Boeing's high-ranking retirees admitted - "We invested so much money in the 90s in the collapse of the Soviet aviation industry, civil aviation, that it was possible to create a full-fledged aviation industry on them, say, in Brazil, from scratch .."
    And here in Ukraine you don’t need to invest money either, the owner of the Pentagon will simply say - and they will collapse to the ground. Indeed, in the case of establishing long-term control over the territory of Ukraine, the United States, aviation is generally not needed there, they will sell their planes on credit, and if they lose control or Russia takes everything into its own hands, it means that it is necessary to leave the scorched earth there, the Stone Age technologically. ..
  11. 0
    28 June 2015 08: 57
    Ukraine is sucked by a camel-shaped airplane with wings, and instead of a landing gear legs that will scatter across the Saudi desert laughing
  12. +1
    28 June 2015 08: 59
    Big flag to you in the hands of gentlemen Ukrainians! Only 200 boards are not enough for you, let's get 500 and more to Mars in our huge space fleet! Fucked drug addicts fucked up with their hallucinations!
  13. +3
    28 June 2015 09: 14
    Even a layman can see how far the plans of dill are divorced from reality - to become a nuclear power, build a powerful fleet, gain the status of a space power, become a leader in aircraft construction ... They would save the country in the next year or two. Everything crumbles into the eyes, and they are in the clouds ... It seems that for dill, plans are like a drug - while you plan, forget, distract from reality ... And it becomes so good !!!
  14. +3
    28 June 2015 09: 27
    It's a pity such an enterprise! Sorry for the trained specialists, professional workers. So much effort was expended to make the legendary Antonovs appear. But the whole world was building!
  15. +2
    28 June 2015 10: 22
    Quote: anfil
    First they will smoke a plan, and only then they will make plans.

    "Plan" zaboristy wassat , hence the sky-high plans! fellow
  16. +4
    28 June 2015 10: 25
    I can only say one thing - Poor Antonov is turning over in his grave! In fact, they destroyed both the enterprise and his dream.
  17. 0
    28 June 2015 11: 25
    I don’t know, maybe I’m mistaken, but neither Boeing nor Airbus has production facilities in the countries of the so-called third world.

    There are cars, cars and trucks, but the models are only outdated or very simplified. Western automobile concerns are essentially simply removing obsolete equipment from their factories to the natives. Such a Solomon decision - both investments, as it were, and assistance to the Papuans, and the market at the very least, can be conquered and can be closed "at once", if anything, practically without problems (social protests, butting with trade unions)
    Russia, by the way, clearly fits into the mechanism described above (for cars) - "Papuans", if we talk about factories built purely by Westerners.

    But no-one will ever give up a more or less stable Papuan country to high-tech industries, which certainly include aircraft manufacturing as a whole, and wherever anything can happen tomorrow ... you can hardly find such boobies.

    So they’ll take away from the kaklov the old Soviet developments, which were still somewhere in the guts, they will let them rivet some Sessna model of 1955, they will determine the market for that Benin, 10-15 pieces a year and say - you have a fishing rod hands, earn boys.
    Something like that.

    Eeehma.
  18. 0
    28 June 2015 12: 05
    Well, just remember where the generally weak aircraft industry of eastern Europe went ...
    The whole Union learned to fly in Czech cars, both Poles and even Romanians had their own aircraft production ... Where is all this? But Ukrainians naively think that it will be different? ... No one needs competitors ... and God, as usual, is on the side of large battalions ...
    It was within the CMEA framework that one could engage in charity ...
  19. +2
    28 June 2015 12: 53
    I flew Sessna in Namibia at the time of it. Cool. Above there are small clouds and rain, which evaporates before reaching the ground (clearly visible), and we turned on the "windshield wipers", as on an ordinary passenger car smile and fly as adults))) the radio is tuned to a wave common with large uncles (Lufganza, British Airways, etc.)
    I think that this is the future of the Ukrainian aviation industry, if at all.

    God forbid Russia to get to Embraer ... in the civilian aircraft industry.
    1. 0
      28 June 2015 13: 42
      Minus my, for "God forbid to get to Embraer" ...
      This is Brazilians before us as before China, even considering what is happening now.
      1. FID
        +2
        28 June 2015 14: 31
        Quote: cucun
        This is Brazilians before us as before China, even considering what is happening now.

        You are wrong ... Brazilians are very successfully working in the field of the aviation industry. Embryer 190/195, 170/175 extreme development of citizens, KS-390 - BTA ... But we have nothing to brag about ...
  20. -1
    28 June 2015 13: 52
    Of course, it’s a pity that everything fell apart. Antonov Design Bureau was an excellent example of the Soviet aircraft industry. And now, those samples that they created would be very nice for Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine. An 178, An 70 is what the Russian Air Force needs. Now everything is in the past, unfortunately. In the west, these planes are not needed, if we take at least the situation with An70 and A400, they will naturally support their manufacturer. Here is the design bureau and spins with the Saudis. If you want to live, learn how to spin. A design bureau is still able to do.
    1. FID
      0
      28 June 2015 14: 35
      Quote: sevtrash
      A design bureau is still able to do.

      Design ... They make (build) aircraft serial plants, but the Kharkov plant and Aviant are in the pen ...
      1. 0
        28 June 2015 16: 01
        Quote: SSI
        Design ... They make (build) aircraft serial plants, but the Kharkov plant and Aviant are in the pen ...

        From OJSC Ilyushin:
        The process of creating an aircraft includes several stages:
        Development of an advance project;
        Creation of a preliminary design, layout, technical design;
        Working design;
        Construction, flight testing and certification of prototypes;
        Participation in mass production.
        As you can see, the amount of work carried out by the design bureau is significant, it includes the construction of an airplane, and they can делать. KB after 1991 developed and produced 4 + 2 cars. Four are An140, 148, 158, 178, and 2 is An38 and An70 development began as early as the USSR, built after 1991. But with the funds they are a little taut.
        1. FID
          0
          28 June 2015 16: 27
          Quote: sevtrash
          Construction, flight testing and certification of prototypes

          Three types of aircraft are being built at the design bureau enterprise: two flight and one for statistical tests. At a serial plant, most often, there is a BRANCH of a design bureau ... Somehow, it was in the USSR and in Antonov Design Bureau earlier. How is it now a question. Maybe KB is a serial factory? Then this is a world-wide discovery ...
          1. 0
            28 June 2015 17: 48
            Quote: SSI
            Maybe KB is a serial factory? Then this is a world-wide discovery ...

            I don’t understand, where did you see it? In your commentary you wrote "To design ... Serial factories are making (building) aircraft, but also the Kharkov plant and Aviant are in the corral ..."
            which can be interpreted as - "just think, they are designing, but to build ..."
            To which I brought you from JSC Ilyushin the stages of creating an airplane, which show the scope of work, which includes the construction of the airplane and participation in mass production.
            I don't understand what is for you "participation in serial production "a world-scale discovery. Do you need to detail this?
            "... If necessary, decisions are made on modifications and modernization of the structure and systems, on changes and additions to operational and technical documentation, on improving the system and control methods that ensure the specified level of airworthiness of aircraft while minimizing operating costs ..."
            1. FID
              0
              28 June 2015 18: 07
              Quote: sevtrash
              "... If necessary, decisions are made on modifications and modernization of the structure and systems, on changes and additions to operational and technical documentation, on improving the system and control methods that ensure the specified level of airworthiness of aircraft while minimizing operating costs ..."

              This is NOT CONSTRUCTION, but design and refinement. And do not ascribe to me what I do not think
              Quote: sevtrash
              which can be interpreted as - "just think, they are designing, but to build ..."

              I repeat once again - without a serial plant KB is dead. An example - Myasishchev Design Bureau, deprived of a serial plant and what created a new design office?
              1. 0
                28 June 2015 19: 40
                Quote: SSI
                I repeat once again - without a serial plant KB is dead.

                Yes, I did not argue about this, but I can. It was about Antonov Design Bureau, which I only said that they work very well for the conditions they are in, after 1991 they developed An 140, 148, 158, 178, and released An38 and An70.
                An 158, An 148 in the series, with respect to An 178, there seem to be preliminary contracts for 100 pieces.
                Regarding the serial plant - in Kiev there is an Aviant aircraft plant, since 1920, it has been engaged in repairs, the An 24 and An26 seem to have made 2500 units, and since 1982 it has been producing An32, since 2010 it has been attached to Antonov ANTK and renamed into a serial plant " Antonov ", produces An 148, 158, most likely will make An178, maybe An70.
                So Antonov Design Bureau has a serial plant in its structure.
                1. FID
                  0
                  28 June 2015 21: 37
                  You can forget about the An-148/158 - they are certified (by the way, there is no An-158, there is an An-148-200, but for the Cubans it was called An-158 to be manufactured in Ukraine) with Russian avionics and a bunch of Russian components. After Poroshenko’s decrees, there will be no supplies, but certification with European avionics is easier to create a new plane ...
                  1. 0
                    28 June 2015 22: 24
                    It is clear that the prospects of Antonov Design Bureau were mainly related to the Russian market, I think it would be beneficial to everyone, but with this, it seems, that's all. Unfortunately. Well, it’s still necessary to spin, but at Antonov Design Bureau they know how to do their work. What will happen next.
  21. +2
    28 June 2015 14: 32
    Quote: cucun
    Minus my, for "God forbid to get to Embraer" ...
    This is Brazilians before us as before China, even considering what is happening now.

    First you need to learn how to produce and sell 200 civilian planes, or even more, per year, as Embraer does.
    And then shout about "Brazilians before us" and the like.
    Embraer civilian mid-range aircraft are very good, I flew them repeatedly. Finnair Airlines uses them, a small number - yes, in the cabin they are worse than airbuses - yes, but the flight qualities are appropriate. Otherwise, the Brazilian planes would not have bought the Scandinavians.
    Well, who cares how to ...?
  22. 0
    28 June 2015 15: 59
    And whose engines and avionics are on that Embraere?
    1. FID
      0
      28 June 2015 16: 29
      Motors Pratt-Whitney, Avionics Honeywell ...
  23. 0
    28 June 2015 17: 12
    At the prices of the 90s: "a bolt - $ 10, a nut - $ 10, a bolt-nut connection - $ 25". Valve from the body-spring $ 150-250. Now, of course, the prices are even steeper under the influence of Svidomo ... How much will a plane cost from a racetrack that does not fly? How about 3 Boeing! Let him wear harem pants - there will be derizbandel. Who can buy it?
  24. 0
    28 June 2015 17: 13
    Antonov’s plans are enchanting. And we need to work and work on our aviation. Superjet, MS-21, still more to produce IL-96.
  25. 0
    28 June 2015 18: 30
    Quote: Achtuba1970
    And whose engines and avionics are on that Embraere?

    General Electric - engines, Hanivell - avionics.