Defense industry is experiencing personnel shortage

111
Defense industry is experiencing personnel shortage


Russian industrial companies, both private and public, are investing heavily in research and development and production modernization. This happens within the framework of the general movement of the country towards the construction of an innovative economy, and the departure from the raw material model. One of the main obstacles on this path is the lack of qualified personnel.

20 years ago, lawyers and economists were considered the most promising professions, a decade later, marketers and programmers, today everyone wants to become IT specialists and startups. Few people dream of becoming a milling machine, mechanic or turner. It is these specialties that are most in demand today in the military-industrial complex. We also need highly qualified design engineers, process engineers. The industry is actively automating, which causes the need for more programmers. A special case is the engine industry. There are very high requirements for the professional level of specialists, a long period of workability. It is almost impossible to find and attract ready-made specialists with practical experience in the design of gas turbine engines. Therefore, enterprises have to search for specialists sometimes even abroad or grow them from a student’s desk. Personnel hunger in the defense industry is acute. It is largely due to the fact that in 1990-ies, young people did not go to enterprises because of the deep crisis in this area, hence the aging of personnel, plus the demographic hole formed at the same time: the birth rate after the collapse of the Union was very low. The situation is gradually changing, and schoolchildren are going to study on specialties that are in demand in the military-industrial complex.

So, at KAMAZ, the share of employees under the age of 35 years today is more than 30%. In the Kalashnikov concern, the average age in 2013 was 47 years, and already at the beginning of 2015, 44. At the beginning of the current year, the share of UEC employees up to 35 years was 25,6%. “Roselectronica” plans to rejuvenate the team to 10% per annum of the total number of company personnel (38 thousand people), that is, it will recruit about 4 thousand thousand young specialists every year. In the Tekhnodinamika holding, the share of specialists in 18-25 age is 19%, while in 2011 it did not exceed 14%.

Motivates young people to realize themselves, to use the knowledge gained in practice in large projects in serious industrial enterprises. However, for those who follow pragmatic logic, other arguments work. Enterprises do a lot in the social sphere: they implement reimbursement programs for kindergarten payments, organize health camps for children, sanatorium-and-spa treatment and employees' rest. Rostec is starting a large-scale housing program for its employees. Rostec companies will be able to send about 2 billion rubles to their employees to improve their living conditions. until the end of this year. The participants of the corporate program will be qualified specialists of the most sought-after professions in which personnel shortages are experienced.

But there is another problem: in the opinion of the Kommersant interlocutors, the practical knowledge and skills currently taught in universities lag far behind the requirements of advanced enterprises using modern IT.

Rostec companies will be able to send about 2 billion rubles to their employees to improve their living conditions. until the end of this year

The Russian education system has a certain inertia, which prevents the specialists on the labor market from being in possession of the necessary modern technologies. Methods of quality control of education work on the rapidly aging requirements. While educational institutions are introducing, adapting and starting to use new standards, they are already beginning to lag behind the achievements of modern information technologies that are emerging on the market. As a result, according to the head of the department of new media and communication theory of the Faculty of Journalism of Moscow State University, Ivan Zasursky, many positions are now empty because you can’t find the right specialists. This is typical of any high-tech industry, which, of course, is the defense industry.

To solve this problem Rostec actively interacts with universities. At the moment, the corporation has concluded cooperation agreements with more than 200 universities, creating basic departments for training specialists. In addition, Rostec is working on the issue of combining the budgets of enterprises for educational purposes and creating a single training center - a corporate university, where it will be possible to introduce leading international practices. Cooperating with universities, other industrial enterprises also solve the problem of training. But the shortage of personnel while maintaining.

Experts note that it is necessary to strengthen the ties of universities with employers. For example, according to Ivan Zasursky, the project “Demanded Education” assumes that employers will formulate a request for solving actual problems of their business, social and practical problems in the form of topics for conducting contests of academic and dissertations. In the next academic year, starting in September, more than ten universities will take part in a pilot, voluntary phase of the project. The works of graduates will be published, and their students will be able to build a career for themselves through educational work — at least in the form of internships or internships, budget places in graduate school, or a grant to continue research. “The development of electronic systems for students, including for the publication of scientific papers, will certainly move the process to the best,” summarizes Anton Merkurov, an expert at Institute for State Ideologies.

Close to failure

A separate category of employees, which is very necessary for the defense industry, are specialists in the field of information technologies in various areas. Today it is impossible to produce modern industrial products without intensive introduction of IT into development and production processes. Therefore, the achievement of the goal of new industrialization is impossible without the digitization of engineering design, production and technological, and financial and economic activities of high-tech enterprises. “Unfortunately, the management of industrial enterprises treats IT not as a strategic task of changing the technological structure and transition to a new format of activity, but as a secondary production factor,” notes Vladimir Rubanov, a member of the public council at the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation. According to him, top managers poorly represent the role, place and capabilities of IT, as well as the requirements for the corresponding reorganization of the enterprise and training of personnel in their implementation. This requires that the competence of the customer of information technologies and production systems be included in the educational standard for managers.

This is a critical task, because industrial enterprises now often work on outdated systems, which increases the risk of being attacked by hackers. In the 21st century, the tasks of the defense industry complex have largely shifted to the area of ​​cyber security. “In order to increase the defense capability, including the personnel security of the country, defense industry enterprises must not only form an order, but also anticipate it for the future. Today, a great emphasis in this area is on engineering (engines, aircraft, special equipment), recent conflicts have shown that the war of the future is primarily cybersecurity, ”says Anton Merkurov. According to him, both the defense of strategic objects and offensive functions fall into this sphere. If earlier we needed soldiers on the battlefield, then in the near future they will fight without leaving the computer. And the task of the state in this area is to provide attractive jobs and to formulate tasks aimed at developing their own products for protection.

Ideally, every automated management system (ACS) with material and human resources should already have cybersecurity capabilities built into it. In outdated solutions, of course, no. At the same time, the damage from the improper operation of such systems and the consequences of their hacking can be enormous. For example, such ACS, which in the 21st century are increasingly becoming targets of cyber-terrorists, are used at critical facilities: transportation hubs, nuclear power plants, thermal power plants, hydroelectric power plants, large industrial enterprises, etc.

One of the reasons for the shortage of high-quality IT professionals in manufacturing is the inheritance of the recruiting system, focused on several universities that have relevant basic departments

In most cases, such automated control systems are built on foreign software and hardware, which, experts say, first, is not trusted, and second, it has multiple vulnerabilities. At all the life stages of the ACS - from design to operation - the personnel involved in the processes, due to not very high competence and lack of special knowledge, can make significant mistakes, which negatively affects the security of such systems. In many ways, this situation is due to the lack of systematic training.

This problem concerns not only the enterprises of the military-industrial complex, but also other strategic sectors of the Russian economy, for example, oil and gas and electricity. Considering the special nature of the knowledge and skills gained in training, which is associated with the dual use of them, this area of ​​educational activity should have a special level of quality control, they say in Rostec. This is not about improving federal quality control of education in the field of information security, but about creating an additional control system based on certification of the qualification level of graduates of educational institutions. To do this, it is necessary to create a set of certification requirements, define a set of trusted independent certification centers and provide opportunities for everyone to pass the tests and confirm the appropriate certification level. Development of certification programs should be based on the established professional standards in the field of information security.

In addition, no one doubts that it is necessary to introduce modern educational technologies in the field of IT preparation in Russia. There is also an opinion that it is necessary to use two types of educational programs at each level of education: one for targeted training of trainees who graduate at state-owned enterprises (national certification system), the other for trainees who have connected their careers with commercial enterprises (international certification system) . You also need to build a thoughtful cooperation between education, science and industry, which should form an order for training.

Unlike many other areas of information security, in the field of cyber security, automated process control systems for critical facilities, high-quality training requires large investments in the creation of modern educational and laboratory facilities and test and diagnostic laboratories. This state of affairs is connected with the high cost of foreign-made ACS systems (Siemens, ABB, Schneider Electric, etc.) and the fact that training specialists requires work not only with a computer system, but also with a complex hierarchical system of controllers, and both at the level of software development and at the hardware level.

That is, the competences of the professional staff of the IT sphere in Russia are focused on solving the problems of localization and adaptation of import solutions, software products and electronic equipment, programming skills and system integration. However, as Vladimir Rubanov emphasizes, today the global vector of IT development is associated with the skills of information management, conceptual and logical modeling and architectural design of complex information systems. Expectations from IT breakthroughs by focusing only on the programming industry seem to be unjustified, since IT success is associated with knowledge of the subject areas of their application, ability to set and formalize programming tasks. This requires the shift of educational programs from technical programming skills to modeling skills and the formalization of the description of activities in IT application domains.

As they say at Rostec, taking into account the existing problems with state financing of budgetary industries, you can come to a single optimal solution at the moment related to the formation of a contingent of students on a budgetary basis solely on the basis of government order with the mandatory distribution of graduates to state institutions. Training of specialists for non-governmental organizations should be conducted on a fee basis or if there is compensation for training costs, if a graduate who has been trained on a budgetary basis is forced to find a job in a non-governmental organization for one reason or another.

“Approaches to the organization of scientific and educational ecosystems in the case of the civilian sector and the defense industry are really different. Both there and there, the systems of open publication and research will play a huge role, but in the case of the defense industry, the realization of the potential of these systems depends on the levels of access. The need for information closure for “external” specialists is understandable, not only on the basis of country membership, but also generally outside the scope of the defense-industrial complex or specific concerns. However, the principle of open information exchange and competitive employment will eventually be implemented both there and there. And educational programs should, in my opinion, be tied to the specific needs of each sector of the industry, ”comments Ivan Zassoursky.

Mind exchange

Another reason for the huge shortage of high-quality IT specialists in manufacturing is the inheritance of the system of recruiting specialists focused on several universities, which have corresponding basic departments for training specialists. “You cannot get to work, for example, at TsAGI, if you have not studied where they are recruiting specialists. Therefore, the enrollment is limited to universities where there is such an opportunity, and by those students who, entering a university, already knew where they want to work. People from other universities, even if they want to work, have no chance to get employed in the military-industrial sector, because there is no recruiting system that would allow them to hire specialists that companies really need, ”explains Ivan Zassoursky. According to the expert, it is necessary to build a recruiting system in a new way, to open the entrances to a career in the defense industry and the industry at new levels. In a situation of economic crisis, a career in the DIC may be an interesting proposition for young people, especially in combination with a housing support program. Unfortunately, for now, according to Anton Merkurov, “in the short term, IT education in Russia is primarily a ticket to Europe or the Silicon Valley. There is still a strong academic education in technology universities, which still makes Russian specialists in demand abroad. ”

But, as mentioned above, good specialists do not always leave only for material reasons - the possibility of self-realization plays a big role, the chance to participate in an interesting scientific project in collaboration with experts who can learn a lot. Today, one of the main directions of improving training, in particular, in the field of information security is to create on the basis of leading educational institutions a modern laboratory base, which would allow, firstly, to gain in-depth knowledge in this area, and secondly, to carry out quality training personnel of the most varied profile: designers, operators and specialists, including in the field of cyber security of ACS. Among the possible ways, due to the initial state financing, collective centers of breakthrough IT solutions (for example, cybersecurity) can be created on the basis of leading universities, which, in terms of material and technical equipment, would be at the advanced world level and could be to ensure its subsequent funding and development.

In addition, it is necessary to make greater use of the network training opportunities noted in the new Law on Education, which will allow the efforts of professionals from various fields (technical, financial and economic, linguistic, etc.) to be concentrated in a number of areas of IT training to achieve maximum effect. in terms of knowledge and skills.
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  1. +36
    7 June 2015 07: 59
    An IT specialist for 25-30 thousand rubles at the plant will quickly get bored and will begin to look for more monetary work
    1. +29
      7 June 2015 08: 38
      it is at what such a factory pay such crazy money ??? here we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand gets a HIGHLY QUALIFIED worker ...
      1. +6
        7 June 2015 09: 13
        Quote: Russian Uzbek
        this is at what such a plant such crazy money is paid ???

        Well - the average wage in the ward :-)
        1. Zionist31
          0
          8 June 2015 04: 04
          Hamas Confrontation with Art

          The Salafis, on the contrary, as a representative of Hamas confirmed in a recent interview with Al Monitor, are steadily gaining political weight among the residents of the sector, which is especially promoted by the victory of ISIS ideologically close to them in Syria and Iraq, as well as its successes in Sinai and Libya. So far, Hamas is still stronger than its opponents. The Izz al-Din al-Kassam brigades include about 15 thousand militants; another 25 thousand carry out police functions in the sector. The number of Salafists in Gaza so far amounts to only a few thousand. However, the threat to Hamas is now posed not only and not so much by the Salafists of Gaza, as by their much more numerous and better armed counterparts on the Sinai Peninsula.

          Fearing that suppressing the adversary too tightly could lead to a loss of control over the situation, as has already happened in Sinai, Iraq and Syria, Hamas is desperately maneuvering using the carrot and stick method. In January, Hamas authorities allowed the Salafis to hold a rally in support of ISIS. Moreover, until recently, representatives of Hamas stated that they did not want to use violence against the Salafis, but, on the contrary, were trying to come to an agreement with them. In an interview with Al-Monitor, a Hamas spokesman generally tried to present the Salafi rebellion of recent times as the machinations of his sworn enemies from Fatah and the leadership of the Palestinian Authority, who want to destabilize the situation in Gaza with the help of radical Salafist activists.

          An autonomy spokesman, however, categorically rejected the allegations, saying that Hamas was in such a situation due to miscalculations made by its own leaders. At the same time, Al-Fatah News and Kufiya Press, which were close to Fatah and the leadership of the PA, almost did not hide the gloating in connection with the growing tension between the Salafis and Hamas, and said that "the point of no return has already been passed." Given that only the intervention of the Israel Defense Forces prevented Hamas’s attempt to seize power in autonomy a year ago — just like the Salafis are now going to do in Gaza — the gloating spirit of Mahmoud Abbas’s entourage can be understood.

          Judging by recent events, Hamas’s attempts to come to terms with the Salafis have failed. It is unlikely that supporters of the Islamic state will soon be able to win in the Gaza Strip, but the conflict is likely to continue to erupt, weakening Hamas, which in this case will have to think more about its internal problems and less run into a war with Israel (just like now behaving on the Lebanese border of Hezbollah). But the Salafis will try using shelling of Israel to both earn points among the population of the sector, and substitute Hamas. In this case, the more severe Israel’s retaliatory airstrike becomes, the more reason Hamas will have to stop shelling and suppress Salafi provocations.

          According to the apt expression of Israeli publicist, political scientist and orientalist Guy Behor, "Gaza has actually become an experimental training ground, clearly demonstrating what is happening in the areas that Israel passes to the control of the Arabs." At first, the power in Gaza from the hands of Abbas went to Hamas, now it may well be in the hands of radical fanatics from ISIL supporters completely devoid of any responsibility. As for the population of Gaza, it is clear that he will soon have to share the sad fate of the Iraqis and Syrians. The happiest of them are likely to be those who manage to escape from the flaming sector. However, they have nowhere to escape, except perhaps the loving Europeans, who are so eager to save the oppressed from
      2. -3
        7 June 2015 10: 58
        * this is what such a plant is paid for such crazy money ??? here we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand gets a HIGHLY QUALIFIED worker ...- * how Russian differs from * foreigner * -
        RUSSIAN is waiting WHEN they will come to him and OFFER a job
        * FOREIGNER * -SHE IS LOOKING FOR HIMSELF

        in the Arctic, the girls from the krajina * on shifts * go robs and YOU .... you cannot tear off in your COUNTRY ....
        work SEARCH IS NECESSARY - she won’t come home !!!!!read the site E1 (work)
        EVERYTHING IS IN YOUR HANDS ONLY TORN W .... FROM THE CHAIR -HIGHLY QUALIFIED WORKER Wildly DEMANDED Yes good
        there is no work in your city Drive away where there is demandYOU ARE OWNERS- get rid of the psychologist slave SAM, most of my life was a shift worker, I know what I'm writing about
        1. -6
          7 June 2015 11: 16
          JUST CALLED IN AND DROP-where 15-18tys? And if SEARCH FOR WORK??
          Electrician on duty
          Shopping and Technical Center Avtomall "White Tower"
          Yekaterinburg, Donbass, 1
          20 000 rub.
          5 June 2015, 17:55
          Technician-electrician in the auto center KIA
          Autocentre KIA on Metallurgists
          Yekaterinburg, VIZ district, Metallurgists, 82
          22 000 -
          24 000 rub.

          5 June 2015, 17:50
          Electrician (Himmash)
          company "BEER & CO"
          Yekaterinburg, Himmash district
          25 000 -
          40 000 rub.

          5 June 2015, 17:50
          Construction workers (Himmash)
          company "BEER & CO"
          Yekaterinburg, Himmash district
          25 000 -
          40 000 rub.

          5 June 2015, 17:34
          Low-current team (urgent)
          OOO "TOM-UPI"
          Ekaterinburg
          negotiable
          5 June 2015, 17:12
          Plumber (with knowledge of electricians)
          Building house "Socora"
          Ekaterinburg
          from 50 000 руб.
          5 June 2015, 16:18
          Electrician
          The Management Company
          Yekaterinburg, Pionersky district, Ural, 59 B
          25 000 rub.
          5 June 2015, 16:18
          Plumber welder
          The Management Company
          Yekaterinburg, Himmash district, Griboedova, 11
          25 000 rub.
          5 June 2015, 12:31
          Electrician
          Ekaterinburg
          To favorites
          Cross it out
          from 30 000 rub.
          took on E1 website (eburg online) work DO NOT BELIEVE CHECK!!!! tongue wink
          1. +20
            7 June 2015 12: 02
            A lot of such advertisers are scammers and criminals who earn EXACTLY on cheating workers!
            Just a week ago there was a conversation with a person on this topic.
            Lawlessness is happening in the country on this basis.
            People still need to remain after work, because everyone hangs on them.
            Many LLCs throw workers, customers, the state and declare bankruptcy. And power, law, condone this. It is likely that they have a huge loot from this. I explain the scheme: there are special firms and schemes where those who want to go bankrupt do not directly go bankrupt, but simply reorganize by merger - many companies of completely different types of activity merge into one. So they evade any responsibility to anyone. And the founders - physical. persons - do not respond with their own property. And the authorized capital is 10 thousand rubles, but even that is nothing, you won’t even take a chair. And the courts will last for years. Will have to change the defendant, since he no longer exists - merged into something else. And even if the enforcement proceedings are opened at a new addressee, then he will either go bankrupt or there is nothing to take from him.
            In Russia, a real mess is going on - fraudsters and businessmen in all areas are sucking everything out of the country, imitating something there ... In fact, everything is terrible!
            I can at least mention something and specifically - give names with names and other names.
            Only thieves can thrive in Russia today!
            1. -5
              7 June 2015 12: 28
              * A lot of such advertisers are scammers and criminals who earn EXACTLY on cheating workers! *-101% I agree you see cheating, go away, for NO ONE WILL FIND YOU A WORK- talk about people_ sit in the kitchen and whine * DO NOT PAY * crying -THE MUSIC IS NOT SUCCESSFUL (Swordsman cut out of the army am - spat, cursed everyone crying -went to look for work,changed for several years-found OWN OIL fellow )
              1. +3
                7 June 2015 12: 33
                Yes, they leave, but having lost time and energy. That's why such announcements hang ...
                I talked purely for this - that ads are not an indicator ...
                Not only that, there are even seemingly respectable structures. Everything is civil, all things. And who knows how they got the business - he will think whether to go to work for them ... Well, they overwhelmed the past director with his whole family and seized the business ... And here the unknowing person settles in and starts pumping the rights - the head will be cut off and that’s it ...
                1. 0
                  7 June 2015 13: 21
                  *I talked purely for this - that ads are not an indicator. *- if you don’t knock on the door, it will not open, this is another life-we try - we make mistakes - we try again Yes goodНABOUT DO bully
                  WHO IS GOING ONE WILL ALWAYS FIND wink (adventure on your own .... lol-and so it happened feel )
                  1. +3
                    7 June 2015 21: 17
                    Defense industry is experiencing personnel shortage

                    So we finished playing the game of "educating a qualified consumer".
                    As a result, we have more than enough managers and merchandisers, and you will not find a third-level turner in the daytime with fire.
                    And what other re-industrialization can we talk about?
                    It will take another 10 years - and at the machine stand will be ONE.
                    And at least there are no harbingers of a change in state policy in the field of education.
                    And we will not have a future until the situation changes.
                  2. 0
                    7 June 2015 21: 17
                    Defense industry is experiencing personnel shortage

                    So we finished playing the game of "educating a qualified consumer".
                    As a result, we have more than enough managers and merchandisers, and you will not find a third-level turner in the daytime with fire.
                    And what other re-industrialization can we talk about?
                    It will take another 10 years - and at the machine stand will be ONE.
                    And at least there are no harbingers of a change in state policy in the field of education.
                    And we will not have a future until the situation changes.
                    1. Victor the Great
                      +2
                      7 June 2015 23: 06
                      Quote: Colorado
                      We have more than enough managers and merchandisers, and you will not find a turner of the third category in the afternoon with fire.

                      That's when they will pay the turner at least as much as the manager, you see, there will be highly professional workers. The question is that it is customary for employers to put a work rate of 15 thousand rubles and wonder why professionals do not go to them ...
                      That's when there will really be nobody to stand at the machine, maybe even then qualified personnel will begin to take care .
                      ...
                      In the meantime, all this sounds like hypocrisy, no more.
                  3. 0
                    8 June 2015 07: 29
                    Quote: Fantik13
                    WHO IS GOING ONE WILL ALWAYS FIND

                    That's right!
              2. 0
                7 June 2015 18: 51
                it’s interesting that it’s easier for someone to remember than to question their point of view.
                1. Victor the Great
                  0
                  7 June 2015 23: 09
                  Quote: Archon
                  it’s interesting that it’s easier for someone to remember than to question their point of view.

                  It's easier to "minus" as a sign of disagreement than to get involved in an empty discussion on an obvious topic, and that's right, for this "minus" was put.
            2. +1
              7 June 2015 22: 19
              Quote: vvvvv
              A lot of such advertisers are scammers and criminals who earn EXACTLY on cheating workers!
              Just a week ago there was a conversation with a person on this topic.
              Lawlessness is happening in the country on this basis.
              People still need to remain after work, because everyone hangs on them.

              Just about, an acquaintance of mine got a job in a store of the "Magnit" chain, the ad announced a salary of 25 thousand rubles, but in reality he receives 17 thousand, but he values ​​this place too, because in a city with a population of 45 thousand people, where unemployment is at 20% and that's good.
            3. +4
              7 June 2015 22: 33
              So in 90 we ourselves allowed swindlers to come to power, and we continue to choose them if only there are no communists, although in the end they were the first swindlers, and we live with them, with degenerates.
          2. +5
            7 June 2015 14: 08
            Do you know the proverb -: "On the fence ... it is written, and there is firewood." What they write in the ads is the maximum possible with the achievement of all indicators in work (fulfillment of the daily, weekly, monthly plan; absence of marriage; and so on, so on, so on). I myself have given similar ads more than once, and will I really write what it really is. So no one comes to work. You write the maximum. In fact, salary is always less. Personnel workers earn a lot, they know the technology perfectly, know what and how you can earn, and what you can fly on (the second, accordingly, goes to beginners), and a huge number of factors, for example: the availability of a working and necessary tool. Look who goes to work at the plant and who works. Anyone who needs a dormitory (if there is one at the plant) goes to work at the plant, so as not to rent a private one (for the first time). Then such a person looks for all sorts of ways to gain a foothold in the city, and all a * dyu. Either the pre-retirement age or pensioners are working (an example of our workshop - this year 18 people retire, that is, those born in 1955 and half will leave the plant). The institutes train specialists in the field of metalworking technology, steel production, metal forming, etc., but they do not go to the plant! What for ? The diploma is in your pocket, now you can go to work as a condom sales manager via the Internet, stay warm, clean, not in dirty overalls, and not burn by the stove. It is high time (at least for state employees) to introduce distribution, factories to build housing and give a mortgage at 1% for specialists, with the consent to pay and work for 20 years. only in this way and again to train specialists in vocational schools, we can get rid of "professional hunger".
            1. 0
              7 June 2015 22: 31
              "It is high time (at least for state employees) to introduce distribution, factories to build housing and give a mortgage at 1% for specialists, if they agree to pay and work for 20 years. Only in this way and again to train specialists in vocational schools, we can get rid of" professional hunger ".
              and then - a distributed state employee if they pay 15 pipe (see the post below mine) will work for that much money, that is in no way- you can't shorten it !!!! he'll chat for three years and "Diploma in your pocket, now you can go to work as a manager selling condoms via the Internet, stay warm, clean, don't be in dirty overalls, don't burn by the stove" ...
              Mortgage - how many workers do a decent plant need? ....
              "where is the money Zin" (c) the VSV can be found for such a construction - there are no superfluous in industry now, and in the state too ...
          3. +3
            7 June 2015 21: 21
            The article is called "The defense industry is experiencing staff shortages." Let's confine ourselves to the military-industrial complex. For example, the vacancies of the Omsk OMKB (units for engines Yak-40, Yak-42, Yak-130, L-39, An-28, An-72, An-74, An-74TK-300, An-124 Ruslan, An-148, An-158, An-225 "Mriya", Be-200, Tu-334, Mi-26 helicopters):
            Metrology Engineer 2 cat. s / n 16 tr

            2. Software engineer s / n 11-14 tr

            3. Electronic Engineer s / n from 16 tr

            4. The controller of machine, metalwork z / p 12 t.

            5.Locksmith 6 times. s / n from 15 to 24 tr

            6. The engineer-technologist s / n from 12 to 15 tr

            7. Process engineer (heat treatment) s / n 15-17 tr
            I will not give vacancies from all enterprises, if interested, look at the vacancies of the Omsk Motor-Building Association named after Baranov, the Omsk PO Flight, the Omsk Transport Engineering Plant. I assure you, the numbers are of the same order.
            High phrases are beautiful, but they are all broken up into the harsh realities of Russian reality.
            Resolution of June 4, 2015 No. 545. The subsistence level in Russia as a whole for the I quarter of 2015 per capita is set at 9662 rubles, for the able-bodied population - 10 rubles, for pensioners - 404 rubles, for children - 7916 rubles.
            1. +3
              7 June 2015 22: 58
              Here it is the essence of a state with social injustice and who will honestly work for such a state. The false patriotism of our government is to tighten the belts of the people, the defense should be raised, but it is advisable to pay less, and more accurately, and cut the social sphere in connection with a difficult situation. Between others and social programs, even in dashing 90, this was not so, which oligarchs did we defeat? Hooray only on the TV screen.
            2. borymba
              0
              24 June 2015 14: 08
              WE RISE THE RED BANNER AS A LITTLE-POLITsEE TO THE WALL-BOURGEOIS ON THE LANTERN !!!
          4. +1
            7 June 2015 22: 05
            Quote: Fantik13
            took on the site E1 (online eburg) work DO NOT BELIEVE CHECK !!!

            Do not equate a millionaire city with cities of regional significance. Unfortunately, most Russian cities are far from being millionaires and finding decent work with decent pay is much more difficult
          5. +2
            7 June 2015 22: 22
            and now add the same cost of renting accommodation in EBurg — about 10 thousand, public transport - another thousand, parking for cars — another 2 thousand, and what remains of your 20-22 thousand ???? !!!!! 5- Xnumx thousand and this is yet to eat
          6. +3
            7 June 2015 22: 23
            As far as I understand, this is not about the fact that it is impossible to find a job, but about the fact that they don’t pay anything at the defense, the right country. By the way, young people need to be prepared already from school, and not at the university, it is very bad there with poor school knowledge, and indeed, the foundation has been laid since childhood.
        2. +12
          7 June 2015 11: 28
          candy wrapper13
          * this is what such a factory is paid for such crazy money ??? here we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand gets a HIGHLY QUALIFIED worker ... - * how does Russian differ from * foreigner * -
          RUSSIAN is waiting WHEN they will come to him and OFFER a job
          * FOREIGNER * -SHE IS LOOKING FOR HIMSELF
          in the Arctic, the girls from the krajina * on shifts * go robs and YOU .... you cannot tear off in your COUNTRY ....
          SEARCH IS NECESSARY - I won’t come home myself !!!!! read the E1 website (work)
          EVERYTHING IN YOUR HANDS ONLY TURN W .... FROM THE CHAIR - A HIGHLY QUALIFIED WORKER WILDLY DEMANDED yes good
          there is no work in your city LEAVE to where it is claimed-YOU ARE YOURSELF-get rid of the psychologist YOURSELF slave, most of my life was a shift worker, I know what I'm writing about

          What are you talking about ... Wake up from euphoria. A bunch of qualified specialists tore off ... Now they sit after the northern shift without money deceived. People sat in the tundra for six months, not a penny earned. The North has long been not that North, especially in a crisis. Companies that were once violently bursting at the seams and throwing people, as in 90. If you mean oil companies, then you can’t get into them. And if this happens, then on enslaving conditions. So be quiet better.
          1. -8
            7 June 2015 11: 38
            *Wake up from the euphoria. A bunch of qualified specialists tore off ... Now they sit after the northern shift without money deceived. People sat in the tundra for six months, not a penny earned. The North has long been not that North, especially in a crisis. Companies that were once violently bursting at the seams and throwing people like in the 90s. If you mean oil companies, then you can’t get into them. And if this happens, then on enslaving conditions. So be quiet better.* in oil and gas 25 YEARS worked and WHAT YOU DO KNOW tongueAlways thrown * you need to move your ears *- wild capitalism - look and think CAM -A drilling goes good -There is a work fellow -from 90 DO NOT COMPARE- then Kidalovo noble WAS crying
            1. +7
              7 June 2015 12: 06
              Apparently we are on different planets. I tell you about what is happening now, and not 25 years ago, and you tell me some kind of propaganda nonsense. You would ask the people who were thrown and their hungry families that they didn’t receive a salary for three to four months, you would have heard such an propaganda message. Agitator...
              1. -2
                7 June 2015 12: 42
                * I am telling you about what is happening now, and not 25 years ago, and you are telling me some kind of propaganda nonsense. You would have asked the people thrown and their hungry families what salary for three to four months did not receive, *-in 90 (when we were not paid a salary-MONEY DIRECTORS TURNED) Arriving from the shift, went shabbat-who where could. What has changed? people around me KILLrather than sitting * three to four months * - EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON PEOPLE tongue
                * Apparently we are on different planets. *-PEOPLE around WE ARE DIFFERENT- WE total we achievedonations are not expected from anyonebully
                SCULUGHTER TIRED !!! am friend (drill master) on disability 2group- refused to receive 3-working-to move- work (money for ...- is) THESE PEOPLE AROUND ME tongue
            2. 0
              7 June 2015 12: 13
              * The North has long been not that North, especially in times of crisis *OIL-CRISIS (????)-who told you???? belay 90 drilled when oil cost $ 18-19 Yes
              * Companies that were once violently cracking at the seams and throwing people *-What are * companies *. UGAZPROM, ROSNEFT, LUKOIL, ASIA DRILLING, EURASIA (and other companies I know * companies *) and everything seems to be fine laughing (YESTERDAY WITH HUSBANDS Drank MET)

              1. +6
                7 June 2015 15: 59
                Mr. fanik13, read your comments, you have some kind of strange reasoning. Well, you're lucky to get a job, now you have a chest wheel, snot bubbles.
                Answer these questions:
                1. Does your company where you work have enough jobs for ALL Russian workers?
                2. Hypothetically: EVERYONE went to work in your office (or the like), who will work in other, no less important places, but on a half-wage salary?
                1. +2
                  7 June 2015 19: 03
                  there should be no half-wage salaries in important places. robots should work on them. Now is not wartime after all. And in campaigns where salaries are low, bosses still live boldly.
                  such capitalism
            3. +2
              7 June 2015 23: 16
              A wrapper you are not green for an hour, it’s time to understand, you are a particular example, we are generally talking about the military-industrial complex in which the wage bill does not correspond to the tasks not set, not to the spirit of the current time. If some "beer" manager can make more money, then who will go to the plant. The state is a regulator, and if it is x ..., then it went to x ..
            4. +1
              8 June 2015 09: 35
              Quote: Fantik13
              drilling GOING — there is work — with 90 DO NOT COMPARE — then the scam was notorious

              The fact that in the 90s there was more kidalov than it is now is clear, but why is it still present? Even at the largest construction site in Russia, the Vostochny cosmodrome, they even managed to throw staff on their salaries.
          2. +2
            7 June 2015 15: 23
            Quote: figter
            People sat in the tundra for six months, not a penny earned.


            It’s strange, but I didn’t meet one in the north ... and I tried it myself and how many colleagues and acquaintances work in the field of IT and process control systems - but to be so deceived (for half a year ...) - I did not meet such !!!

            And literally not long ago, almost a colleague (KIPovets) got a shift to the north - 150 thousand rubles per shift plus payment of a shift period ...
            1. +5
              7 June 2015 15: 47
              You carefully read my comment. It’s quite difficult to get directly into an oil company without acquaintances and family ties. But the north does not only consist of them. In order for them to work and develop, a huge bunch of construction companies work for them, which also build oil pipelines, gas pipelines, oil storage facilities, power lines, roads, etc. This is also the north and people work for them too. And the level of oil production also depends on their work. You are one-sidedly assessing the situation exclusively in the context of producing companies near the wells. So talk to these people and you will hear a radically different opinion.
              1. +1
                7 June 2015 15: 54
                Quote: figter
                You carefully read my comment. It’s quite difficult to get directly into an oil company without acquaintances and family ties.


                Not oil - to the power station ...
                1. 0
                  7 June 2015 16: 00
                  Or for example a turner of the 6th category.
              2. +2
                7 June 2015 15: 58
                Quote: figter
                It’s quite difficult to get directly into an oil company without acquaintances and family ties.


                And it’s hard to get a good and well-paid job everywhere without connections.
                Or you need to have a really high qualification, for example, really be a software developer for process control systems, IT (WEB, DBMS ... drivers, etc.)
              3. +2
                7 June 2015 16: 03
                Quote: figter
                But the north does not only consist of them. In order for them to work and develop, a huge bunch of construction companies work for them, which also build oil pipelines, gas pipelines, oil storage facilities, power lines, roads, etc.

                And they are this type of little people who are lucky to get a job and they think that everywhere and everywhere like that, without even thinking that these "cool" use the labor of those who receive a half-beggarly salary, "who do not work, but lie on the couch", and that without such "parasites", they themselves are zero without a wand.
              4. +1
                7 June 2015 16: 06
                And the fact that in Russia we have a problem with the assessment of skilled labor is something that is what it is - bad of course, very bad.

                And what happens, and qualified do not pay normal.

                And they don’t want to spend money on training, because they think we will teach, and he will leave - although of course: pay normally, then he won’t leave ...

                Well, in general, this is a long-standing problem of assessing their personnel - even in tsarist Russia it was such that they can do better behind the hill, and they paid more to the foreign ones.
            2. +1
              7 June 2015 22: 35
              an exemplary COSMODROM !!!! which was turned around the box for a week and was discussed here-how much time did not pay s / n?
        3. +4
          7 June 2015 15: 59
          this is when you’re young, without a family without children. Try at 52 years old, no one needs you no matter what the specialist is.
          1. +1
            7 June 2015 16: 14
            It's strange - in my hometown (and this is not Moscow and not Peter, but the so-called depressive Volga region) they are chasing after highly skilled turners - and 52g for a turner is still not at all age. And in St. Petersburg, acquaintances say, the same situation is also offered under 90 thousand rubles.

            By the way, look at the head hunter (hh.ru) or on the super job ...

            Yes, and here is an example, also in his hometown - radio controllers for 160 thousand rubles received an annual additional prize for the new year.
            1. wanderer_032
              0
              7 June 2015 18: 42
              Quote: Dali
              By the way, look at the head hunter (hh.ru) or on the super job ...


              Razvodilovo for suckers, your "NN" together with "Superjopa".
              A layer of worthless crooks and swindlers. You won’t find a job for yourself there, but there’s plenty of crap.
        4. wanderer_032
          +2
          7 June 2015 18: 30
          Quote: Fantik13
          there is no work in your city


          And why for the sake of man must to leave the place where he was born, grew up and studied?
          Based on this logic, the entire population of Russia should live in only a dozen of our points in our country or drape over a hill. And just leave the rest of the territory, let everyone settle there. This is the logic of a cunningly jo ... fitman. Yes, and it’s not in a businesslike way. Ancestors came, built, developed.
          And such "smart guys" are just ready to give up everything ....
          So in a few years nothing will remain of the country.
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 19: 09
            nevertheless, we do not have developed socialism, and therefore we must choose a profession that is in demand where you live or live where your profession is needed.
            1. wanderer_032
              0
              7 June 2015 19: 54
              Quote: Archon
              therefore, you must choose a profession that is in demand where you live or live where your profession is needed.


              You can choose when there is time, Wed-va, etc.
              When this is not there is no choice either.
              Although there is, but small. To die on the street from hunger immediately or not immediately, tormented.
        5. +1
          8 June 2015 07: 24
          Quote: Fantik13
          there is no work in your city LEAVE to where it is claimed

          And what will happen to that plant if everyone leaves? Another ruin? So are we going to "raise" the economy?
      3. +5
        7 June 2015 11: 08
        Doctors wrote the same thing that they receive 40-50 thousand re, in fact, worked a day after a day, a maximum of 15, and this is also skilled work. For example, a cleaner gets a minimum wage of 10 thousand.
      4. +3
        7 June 2015 12: 06
        In Moscow, as here the salary is higher ... And in the rest of the Russian Federation it is even lower ...
      5. +2
        7 June 2015 12: 24
        Quote: Russian Uzbek
        we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand receive a HIGHLY QUALIFIED worker ...

        ZiK, Yekaterinburg, "Almaz-Antey". Salary of a highly qualified specialist without higher education - 40 rubles.
        1. +2
          7 June 2015 12: 38
          Without housing, with family, etc., in another city - for many it is not realistic to work and live like this ...
          1. -3
            7 June 2015 13: 07
            * Without housing, with family, etc., in another city - for many it is not realistic to work and live like this ... *-A POVERTY 15tys (I have more pension) ??? recourse although they are different people ....
            Everyone chooses for themselves
            A woman, a religion, a road.
            Serve the devil or the prophet -
            Everyone chooses for themselves.
            Everyone chooses by themselves

            A word for love and for prayer.
            A sword for a duel, a sword for battle -
            Everyone chooses by themselves.

            Everyone chooses by themselves.
            Shield and armor. Staff and patches.
            Measure of final reckoning -
            Everyone chooses by themselves.

            Everyone chooses for themselves.
            I choose too - as I can.
            I have no complaints to anyone -

            Everyone chooses for themselves.
        2. Elk
          Elk
          +1
          7 June 2015 16: 26
          ZiK, Yekaterinburg, "Almaz-Antey". Salary of a highly qualified specialist without higher education - 40 rubles.

          Dear, the name of this specialist in the studio!
          My official salary is about twice as high as in the country. Only this does not mean anything. It’s a completely different conversation that with my arrival at the enterprise his income grew by an order of magnitude ...
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 19: 05
            Quote: Elk
            Dear, the name of this specialist in the studio!

            Surname, fire, and the position too ... A friend of my son. Education is an electrician ... Moreover, I will say. With part-time jobs in the same workshop, he earns up to 50. Information is 000% correct. Former Zikovets himself, I visit the factory. I know the situation ...
            1. Elk
              Elk
              0
              8 June 2015 09: 59
              . Moreover I will say. With part-time jobs in the same workshop, he earns up to 50. Information is 000% correct. Former Zikovets himself, I visit the factory. I know the situation ...

              I work with catworkers outside the company, I can earn up to 300 ...
        3. wanderer_032
          0
          7 June 2015 19: 00
          Quote: retired
          highly qualified specialist


          More specifically, you can? In terms of profession and specialization. And that word "specialist" has already become a parasite word ...
          By the way, various kinds of paper-maracas (secretaries-referents, clerks) and other bureaucratic shushera, who is scrubbed everywhere and everywhere, are now also called specialists (they even have full-time posts called).
          And in the countries of Western Europe and the USA, their position is called simply - the clerk.

          Here in my understanding, an intelligent engineer or mechanic, for example, who understands the subtleties of his business, is a highly qualified specialist. Any person of a working specialty, if he has a qualification rank (class) and his work skills really correspond to the rank assigned to him, is also a highly qualified specialist.
          And so in any industry, agriculture, services, trade, etc.
          And everyone else who "has a piece of paper" (diploma), but does not have the knowledge or skills corresponding to this "piece of paper" - an empty sound / nothing and no one.
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 19: 53
            Quote: wanderer_032
            Can you be more specific?

            Yes shosh such and such, men ?? Well, is it really incomprehensible WHAT the enterprise is in question ?? You still ask: WHAT exactly does he collect there? ... If you do not believe it, it's up to you. Recently, another friend of my son got a job on ZiK. And also in the same workshop, for the same position and for the same salary. A guy with a high school (radio engineer). Schedule: week -1th shift, week -2nd shift, week -3rd shift + trips to the landfill. Who is in the subject - that one of the above will perfectly understand everything and can check ...
            1. wanderer_032
              +1
              7 June 2015 19: 57
              Quote: retired
              about what
              it is clear that firecrackers are not made for the holidays. laughing

              It was not clear specifically about the "specialists". What he wrote about.
              1. 0
                7 June 2015 20: 01
                Quote: wanderer_032
                It was not clear specifically about the "specialists".

                Respectedhi . Reread more closely my writings. There, between the lines, everything is clear about the specialtyfeel .
            2. wanderer_032
              0
              7 June 2015 20: 02
              Quote: retired
              in the same workshop, for the same position and for the same salary. A guy with a high school (radio engineer)


              And they wrote that they get so much without a high school ... How is it so, interesting?
              1. 0
                7 June 2015 20: 15
                Quote: wanderer_032
                How does it happen, interesting?

                The guy, having a high school (radio faculty), went to this position, which does not imply a high school, firstly because of a salary, and secondly there is a good career prospect. Both are 25 years old.
      6. +1
        7 June 2015 18: 52
        Quote: Russian Uzbek
        it is at what such a factory pay such crazy money ??? here we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand


        at shipbuilding you will be offered both 70 and even 120 if the qualifications are good
        1. +1
          7 June 2015 19: 53
          Quote: opus
          at shipbuilding you will be offered both 70 and even 120 if the qualifications are good

          Are you proposing all of Russia to Moscow and Peter to rush? what Well, my daughter works there, as soon as she’s just beginning, her salary is doubled, against the same paramedic, pensioner, with all possible regional and northern allowances in the outback of the Arkhangelsk region.
          1. 0
            8 June 2015 06: 24
            For completeness, it is necessary to show the salary of cleaners in a commercial bank and at school.
            1. 0
              8 June 2015 20: 58
              Quote: EGOrkka
              For completeness, it is necessary to show the salary of cleaners in a commercial bank

              Let me remind you. It's not about cleaners and in general ....
              but about:
              Quote: Russian Uzbek
              it is at what such a factory pay such crazy money ??? here we have "Strela" - a defense enterprise - 15-18 thousand
          2. 0
            8 June 2015 20: 56
            Quote: perepilka
            Are you proposing all of Russia to Moscow and Peter to rush?

            Do you think in K-Amur less?
            Or at "Irkut" or in Kaliningrad?
            / The defense is steering now /
        2. 0
          7 June 2015 21: 36
          Yes, yes ... And also tell us that state enterprises do not have a tariff grid ... We also offered 320 at the enterprise, though to deputy directors and only to their own to push ...
      7. 0
        7 June 2015 22: 11
        So we have one deputy replacing 20 highly skilled workers, that's who works in the sweat of his face.
    2. Alex rus
      +4
      7 June 2015 09: 13
      Thank God, not only IT specialists are required at the factories ... the vocational education system is just beginning to take shape, it would be nice to reformat everything and graduate graduates from universities with not acquired diplomas.
      1. +2
        7 June 2015 11: 22
        As always - they started for health, and ended in ..... Again, everything slipped to IT "specialists". IT is needed, no one argues, but IT is already the next, not the main branch in the rise of production. First of all, developers and talented designers are needed who can create modern processing equipment - the basis of cost-effective production. But remove not just trouble, they are a complete ambush. There are almost no old people left, and the young, in order to grow to the required level of training, need to work in production for at least 3 years, or even more. Until a park of modern Russian-made automated equipment is created, you can recruit IT as much as you like, only things will be there even now.
        And of course, we need highly qualified "hands" - workers, whose hands create the very basis of any production. Here everything is the same as with the engineering and technical staff.
        1. 0
          7 June 2015 18: 48
          Quote: ussr1960
          In no time will a fleet of modern automated equipment of Russian production be created, you can dial IT as much as you like, only it will be there now.

          You have a contradiction, you do any automation, if it is finite not mechanical without an IT specialist, you can’t implement it in any way, who will write the drivers for the equipment, who will write the control program?
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 21: 39
            YES and who will write it? Maybe 1 Snick or Java programmer? It’s already impossible to find designers in our country, first to design, then to breed, then to produce, perform installation, debug and write system software already, and you are already rubbing about application software ...
        2. 0
          7 June 2015 21: 04
          First of all, we need workers. There is no one to twist the nuts.
      2. +2
        7 June 2015 12: 46
        Today you can’t buy a diploma! Really!
        More precisely, it’s possible, but a purely knowing linden, which can only be shown to friends and girlfriends ...
        Now only sessions are bought, well, or to the edge of the graduation project itself, but like, you are officially studying ...
        And since Universities are a commercial enterprise and are self-sufficient, they are not interested in "blaming" students. And the exam is passed 100% of all upon admission.
        After all, if little is done, then the university will not have money.
        And if people regularly bought everything before graduation, then blaming it would have been completely a bastard ... laughing
        1. +2
          7 June 2015 16: 06
          Quote: vvvvv
          Today you can’t buy a diploma! Really!

          Quote: vvvvv
          Now only sessions are bought, well, or to the edge of the graduation project itself, but like, you are officially studying ...

          What is the essence of the difference? So, what are they getting stupid "specialists".
        2. wanderer_032
          0
          7 June 2015 19: 13
          Quote: vvvvv
          Now only sessions are bought, well, or to the edge of the graduation project itself, but like, you are officially studying ...


          This is how I imagine such doctors, military men, judges and lawyers, policemen, engineers, firefighters and rescuers, workers, etc., and I get scared more than if the whole world went to war with us.
    3. +6
      7 June 2015 11: 15
      In Sratov, IT people and over 15 thousand work in colleges. In factories, the situation is the same. Only the article in the article is about WORKERS and ENGINEERS, and not about IT specialists. At many Engels enterprises, by the way, there are one or two IT specialists. And that’s all. However, the company works and produces products.
      At the same time, I myself am an IT specialist, and I perfectly understand the indignation of my colleagues. How so without us. Very simple!!! Without IT specialists, production will not rise. But if instead of an engineer send a bachelor’s undergraduate from a university ..... then he’ll get up. At the KORPUS enterprise, bachelors are taken only for working specialties, they are not allowed to enter engineering.
      1. +2
        7 June 2015 12: 18
        Now there are literally 1-2 last streams of "specialty" in universities.
        Everyone after that will be strictly bachelors. And you have to take - who is.
        Another thing, I must say that in fact, the curriculums for me at well-known universities have hardly changed at all. Everything is exactly the same with bachelors, which was with the specialty.
        This is not the case, but the reality and level of training.
        And the level is none. Every year I carry out the study volume of hundreds of students of various specialties. I can close the session from 3000 to 5000 rubles. Now, after all, there are a million branches and distantions everywhere ... The bonanza ...
        So, in all idiocy, only selfish can please - to rip off a lot of dough on this ... And everyone benefits:
        HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS - at a minimum of expenses to slap branches and diplomas, to raise babosy;
        such as me - to study for a lot of money that pay, to whom to do the scrap themselves;
        students - also good - you can get "little blood" "crusts", tk. understand that employment is different, that knowledge is not needed by anyone, etc.
        And wise leaders have recently come up with a new feeder, although of course they were guided by other - good goals. Namely, if earlier the crusts were needed for career growth and even the directors of enterprises were forced to get a rig, now they also emphasized the “profile” of the rig. If earlier, in your real work, you could work having close-in-specialty crusts of the rig, now not a fig ... You need exactly in your specialty. And the topic has already been launched in state enterprises. They promise to distribute further everywhere. Those. many will have to get a second tower and pay off the loot for this. This despite the fact that people could work on this job for years ... it's just a crust for many.
        Eh, a lot of people will be pulled out more dough ...
        What to hide, I also have to prepare mentally for counting attendants ...
        Who will study - contact us, we’ll solve everything ... laughing
      2. +2
        7 June 2015 12: 28
        I’ve seen these bachelors more and more in the late 90’s, they worked, they are at the Volga Mechanical Plant, a workshop for the production of road metal hatches, when the equipment breaks down, they stand idly by, they are afraid to open their mouth so that they don’t freeze stupidity, , but not to suggest how to fix it. For a long time all this ...
      3. -1
        7 June 2015 15: 28
        Quote: I am
        At the same time, I myself am an IT specialist, and I perfectly understand the indignation of my colleagues. How so without us. Very simple!!! Without IT specialists, production will not rise.


        Therefore, such a production should go into nothingness, since it is inefficient - the latest technological processes are impossible without integration with production management systems (ACS) and process control systems (ACS) !!!
        1. 0
          7 June 2015 18: 30
          Not really. Although in general you are right. This production is inefficient, but while this production is still alive, you need to do another integrated and more. And here we are back to the main topic - where are the specialists?
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 22: 05
            Quote: I am
            Although in general you are right.

            And therefore to me a minus? laughing
      4. +1
        7 June 2015 18: 33
        Quote: I am
        At the KORPUS enterprise, bachelors are taken only for working specialties, they are not allowed to enter engineering.

        Not otherwise only after graduate admission? Do not bullshit. A step-by-step system of higher education exists all over the world and this does not prevent the creation of high-tech equipment there, but as bad dancers here.
        He personally hired guys with bachelor’s diplomas and didn’t notice a difference. He wants to go on to study further - let him go, but only with a certain amount of production knowledge. This system is designed for this.
      5. +1
        7 June 2015 18: 51
        Quote: I am
        Without IT specialists, production will not rise.

        It won’t get up if there is an office net from it
    4. 0
      7 June 2015 23: 21
      If everyone is preoccupied with the question of how to get people to work not for money, then I suggest: return to Stalinist socialism. Then it will be possible to put these IT experts in sharazhki.
  2. +10
    7 June 2015 08: 03
    But where is this hunger not? We have exactly the same story on the piece of iron - some managers, lawyers, financiers and businessmen thank you to such comrades as Kudrin and all the liberal overcast! And now what - raise the retirement age.
    1. +9
      7 June 2015 09: 34
      Quote: Siberia 9444
      And now what - raise the retirement age.

      And rightly so, because those who live to retirement are stealing a pension fund.
      (Sarcasm, if In hO).
      1. +1
        7 June 2015 10: 07
        *And rightly so, because those who live to retirement are stealing a pension fund *-PENSIONER HELP HOMELAND-Save your pension fund -KILL lol(humor joke wassat )
    2. Alex rus
      +10
      7 June 2015 09: 44
      And of course, special thanks to Fursenko, Livanov, who ruined the entire education system from secondary to higher, including professional.
      1. +4
        7 June 2015 10: 18
        * And of course, special thanks to Fursenko, Livanov, who destroyed the entire education system from secondary to higher, including vocational.*-Most with higher education corresponds to vocational schools and few technical schools of the USSR crying (I was engaged in the selection of people - I know Yes )with * tower * -schemes and drawings cannot be read belayone thing * pleases * -worked with * Angers * -settlers from China - the same utilities- I read their drawings faster bully Americans are cooler, but if something adjacent, immediately pass
        It looks like education (his kachestvo) is general PROBLEM
        In my opinion it’s very bad that they * forgot * about mentoring-ono during the years of the USSR greatly helped * drag* youth good
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Garay dgonson
      0
      7 June 2015 15: 21
      And fools for plowing for free for 12 hours are no longer there, those who have hunger should think about decent salaries, and they don’t need to blame everything on their own.
      1. 0
        7 June 2015 20: 20
        funny. that means I thought about a high salary, and immediately fed up .. you at least learn to formulate thoughts. and judging by the comments, your decent salary is an achievement of your parents ..
  3. +8
    7 June 2015 08: 04
    "In the short term, IT education in Russia is primarily a ticket to Europe or Silicon Valley. Technological universities still have a strong academic education, which still makes Russian specialists in demand abroad" "...

    For so many years of brain drain, so far the construction of barriers to this drain remains at the level of balabolstvo ... Is it really not clear that this issue should be solved at the state level, and not behind the scenes in each company separately ???
    And again, the conversation is mainly about the relationship between universities and corporations, and the question of training skilled workers will be touched upon in passing ...

    It is necessary, on the basis of the Soviet program of higher and secondary vocational education, to develop a program that meets current realities, and to develop it persistently ... Moreover, housing is spoken about in passing, but the mortgage program with state subsidies must be used 100% to attract students as technical students Universities (and there are many of them ???), and workers in enterprises ...

    And due to the small number of vocational schools, it is necessary to develop training directly at enterprises ... There is nothing special to invent here ...
    1. Hon
      +2
      7 June 2015 08: 42
      к
      Quote: veksha50
      For so many years of brain drain, there are still barriers to this drain

      and what barriers can be built? to ban travel?
      1. +2
        7 June 2015 08: 52
        There was a law on compensating the state for training costs. Probably not working. moreover, commercial training poses a contradiction.
        I think that all sensible and capable guys need to do free training, and then sum up the law on compensation when working abroad. To know in advance, going to study for free.
        1. Hon
          +2
          7 June 2015 09: 07
          they’ll simply go to study for a fee, as most do, or after training they will compensate the state for costs and still dump
          1. +3
            7 June 2015 11: 44
            Yeah, knock over. Only in most cases, those who study the plateau ..... specialists are NOT !!!! Learning for a fee is a tribute to fashion, it is to stand out, to be independent, not to be like everyone else, those who study for free suckers, only teachers don’t find fault with payers, etc. (quotes from student conversations). And there are nowhere to put such specialists in their west.
        2. +1
          7 June 2015 09: 14
          Quote: vvvvv
          I think that all sensible and capable guys need to do free training, and then sum up the law on compensation when working abroad.

          Interpretation often manifests itself towards the end of studies at a university. The first year or two people generally restructured from school daily custody to college sessions. In my group, the best paid were the payers, almost all were extinct during the 5-year period. Of course, there were frank boobies, but they flew right away.
          1. +2
            7 June 2015 11: 45
            Very big rarity. Payers frankly believe that they pay and they will deliver everything. If this is not so, then it is VERY rare!
            1. +1
              7 June 2015 16: 05
              Quote: I am
              Very big rarity. Payers frankly believe that they pay and they will deliver everything. If this is not so, then it is VERY rare!

              We had a joke in that the payers studied the same way as state employees, Tolkio without scholarships and student travel. And so, if you do not close the session, then exit. That is, boobies - that payers that state employees in the first two years flew. And if two sessions in a row without triples, then the transfer of the payer to the budget. This was an incentive for people
        3. +6
          7 June 2015 09: 36
          Quote: vvvvv
          all sensible and capable guys need to do free training, and then sum up the law on compensation when working abroad.


          That's right ... and wrong ...

          The problem is that again - if you had access to materials and analysis - you would understand how they are perverting the use of this quota for free places on the ground ... Basically, they are pushing them around again with connections ... You see, in what is the problem ??? !!! Not sensible and capable, but thieves !!!

          Here, in education, especially in vocational, and in the specialties necessary on a national scale, we need some kind of modern oprichnina, otherwise everything will remain a concussion ...
          1. +2
            7 June 2015 09: 39
            Quote: veksha50
            Here, in education, especially in vocational, and in the specialties necessary on a national scale, we need some kind of modern oprichnina, otherwise everything will remain a concussion ...

            You just said one amazing thing, in my opinion, but it’s a pity it will not come true, it’s to throw officials into production :-) In the sense of such a detachment of “twenty-five thousand people” with retraining, retraining :-)
            1. Elk
              Elk
              +1
              7 June 2015 09: 49
              You just said one amazing thing, in my opinion, but it’s a pity it will not come true, it’s to throw officials into production :-) In the sense of such a detachment of “twenty-five thousand people” with retraining, retraining :-)

              Do you want to permanently ditch everything else to move?
          2. Elk
            Elk
            +6
            7 June 2015 09: 47
            Here, in education, especially in vocational, and in the specialties necessary on a national scale, we need some kind of modern oprichnina, otherwise everything will remain a concussion ...

            But where can we get the new Ivan the Terrible? Or do you seriously think that our "highly effective" will wash the rope for themselves? They, of course, for the most part people are not very distant, but they have become skilled in the struggle for the best piece. They will not share it voluntarily, and they will simply tear up anyone who encroaches on it. Purely on instinct.
            But there are still specialists, still Soviet sourdough, but they, the dogs, don’t want to work for a penny and periodically send to X Y and another unknown. In short, extremely inconvenient frames.
          3. 0
            7 June 2015 12: 49
            I express purely "working hypotheses" for polemics, and do not engage in lengthy analysis of the problem and issue solutions ... So, I do not pretend to be correct.
            That's the forum for controversy.
        4. Elk
          Elk
          +2
          7 June 2015 09: 37
          I think that all sensible and capable guys need to do free training, and then sum up the law on compensation when working abroad.

          Wow, what good we are! Already breaks a tear of tenderness.
          And let's just wear a collar right after graduation, a nose ring and a stall. And then immediately begins the full splendor and prosperity in the air ...
          It's just that the nichrome in our "vertical" system will not work otherwise.
        5. +1
          7 June 2015 09: 44
          no, it works. The right to return personal income tax for training extends to persons who officially work, that is, their income is taxed. You can get a tax deduction if you pay for your education, children, brothers or sisters. Subject to return 13% of the amount paid.
          Cases that provide for the right to a tax deduction.

          It is possible to regain part of the amount paid for education subject to the following conditions:

          You are officially employed (i.e. your income is subject to personal income tax);
          You get education in official educational institutions (technical school, driving school, university);
          training agreement and payment documents in your name.
          if the deduction is made out to a relative:

          A child, brother or sister has not reached the age of 24;
          Brother, sister, child receive full-time education;
          Education is provided by an official educational institution;
          In practice, it is better that you are indicated in the contract as the payer;
          Receipts and payments must also be issued to you.
          Please note that if you pay for your own training, then there are no restrictions on the form of training. If the payment is for the education of children, brothers or sisters, the right to a tax deduction arises only when they receive education in full-time education. In addition, in any case, payments should be made in the name of the recipient of the deduction.
      2. 0
        7 June 2015 09: 32
        Quote: Hon
        and what barriers can be built? to ban travel?


        You carefully read what I wrote ...

        The barriers in my understanding are magnets that attract our brains HERE ...

        To create conditions for learning, and for work, and for social and material well-being ... SO - IT IS EXPLICABLE ???

        PS We even have a mortgage with state subsidies tailored for the right people, of course, but why didn’t these engineers include technicians, skilled workers ??? In general, they try to forget about them, as a class ...

        And whining that there are not enough of them, you won’t help ... Make sure people don’t run ...

        And then you still accuse me of calling for the creation of "sharashki" ...
        1. +1
          7 June 2015 09: 48
          Correctly! Not barriers are needed, but incentives.
      3. +1
        7 June 2015 11: 41
        No!!! To educate. A normally-educated person doesn’t have a desire to drop everything and leave for an unfamiliar and unfriendly environment. Moreover, to work for the enemy, as it is now clear to everyone, this is generally nonsense!
        1. Elk
          Elk
          +2
          7 June 2015 13: 56
          A normally-educated person doesn’t have a desire to drop everything and leave for an unfamiliar and unfriendly environment. Moreover, to work for the enemy, as it is now clear to everyone, this is generally nonsense!

          It is all great to bring up this, but a certain standard of living must be provided. Alas and ah, we live in the material world and for some reason we want to eat every day. And when you think where to earn some money (instead of resting), otherwise the family will have nothing to feed. At the same time, you observe how the thieves who stole billions are threatened with a finger, the enterprise where he worked for half his life is purposefully falling apart, and the persons responsible for this are not blowing away in the Canaries ... So where will all this "education" end up?
        2. 0
          7 June 2015 16: 15
          Quote: I am
          No!!! To educate. A normally-educated person doesn’t have a desire to drop everything and leave for an unfamiliar and unfriendly environment. Moreover, to work for the enemy, as it is now clear to everyone, this is generally nonsense!

          Yeah of course. In the 90s, young scientists had only the option to go to the market if you want to feed a young family. Especially against the background of Chubais and with them, but always drunk EBN
      4. 0
        7 June 2015 15: 03
        The only effective barrier is the adequate remuneration of the specialist. But alas.
    2. +14
      7 June 2015 08: 50
      Right I have personally familiar examples in support of this.
      One person immediately after school was personally invited to study for IT as the dean of one university ...
      Well, I’ve unlearned ... Only then no one needs ... Does a private business. And most importantly - he was intensively lured to the USA and he even left, but then he decided to return and now he is also running his own business. Nobody needed him for at least ten years, and now he has risen normally and is unlikely to be seduced by a beggarly salary.
      It turns out that different husks and businessmen, who really did not create and do not create anything, but rose on corpses, etc. in the 90s and now legalized - they are now beautiful - investors and businessmen, but who are of little use today. They are really interested only in their own pocket, and not creation and long-term investments.
      But techies, hard workers, and advocates for the rise of Russia are Holodians against their background, and they must crawl away before some kind of fathers, work for these uncles for pennies or under the supervision of sons, mistresses and other bosses ?! Yes, I’d rather die than work under the guidance of some thieves son who at work will pretend to be a strict leader, and on the street outside of work show with his one look that all the other rogues, and if necessary threaten with pistols, etc. somewhere in situations on the road, etc., etc.
      These are the realities of modern Russia. In society, to begin with, at least some justice is needed. State personnel policy and much more.
      And to mumble some mantras about this and that, without doing anything practically adequate is also a reality ...
      1. +5
        7 June 2015 09: 43
        Quote: vvvvv
        But techies, hard workers, and advocates for the rise of Russia are Holodians against their background, and they must crawl away before some kind of fathers, work for these uncles for pennies or under the supervision of sons, mistresses and other bosses ?!
        These are the realities of modern Russia. In society, to begin with, at least some justice is needed. State personnel policy and much more.



        Here ... That's right ...

        I was once struck by a tourist who rode our rocket to the ISS and back, for his grandmothers ... Magyar from the former social Hungary, fled to the USA, works at Microsoft (well, maybe not an ordinary software engineer) .. It earns in such a way that it simply took it and flew into space ... And the grandmas for a ticket are considerable ...

        So here we have REAL highly qualified specialists who must live and be provided in such a way that there are no problems for activity, life or rest ...

        A competent specialist is, as it was said before, the property of the republic; you need to grow and carefully store such ...
        1. +2
          7 June 2015 09: 45
          Quote: veksha50
          So here we have REAL highly qualified specialists who must live and be provided in such a way that there are no problems for activity, life or rest ...

          here is just a recent phrase of the authorities that citizens began to earn more than labor productivity evokes the idea that this obviously will not happen
        2. +2
          7 June 2015 11: 51
          Of course, such a policy (staffing, wages for specialists) in Russia was carried out purposefully - it was lobbied, I believe the United States ...
          Pros and engineers have become the poorest ...
          I admit that even now everything is secretly lobbied. All the best specialists are lured abroad.
          Conclusion: either there is no state policy on the topic (this can be qualified as criminal negligence), or it is done purposefully (this is sabotage).
          The state of affairs certainly indicates the need for criminal responsibility of the leadership in charge of any of the areas where this happens ...
          This means that there is a question for the "good tsar" in terms of his personnel policy ...
          1. +2
            7 June 2015 16: 18
            Quote: vvvvv
            Pros and engineers have become the poorest ...
            I admit that even now everything is secretly lobbied. All the best specialists are lured abroad.

            So even on TV, some voices and factories. Series about solid crime. What kind of engineers are there ...
          2. 0
            7 June 2015 22: 48
            But what to lure? 2 thousand bucks - there is little money for the employer, here is a very sickly salary of which 4/5 "VO" in the eyes will never be seen ... but if 3-5? Eh ...
  4. +10
    7 June 2015 08: 11
    Pay people with dignity and you will be rewarded!
    1. +4
      7 June 2015 09: 54
      Quote: parafoiler
      Pay people with dignity and you will be rewarded!


      Not entirely true and not always ...

      But what, do we not pay worthy salaries for the boyars in the Duma, ministers and employees in the government? The output efficiency is low ...

      Raised the salary of state-educated teachers - What, you want to say that the level of teaching has increased? Not at all ...

      They increased the salary of doctors ... I have two doctor neighbors ... One before each planned operation at home shovels a lot of literature (recalls, loses possible situations), he himself is a surgeon from God, books and magazines shelving all the free space in a three-room apartment ... The second - neither special literature, nor a fig in an apartment and office, works the way the medical institute graduated in 1976, and stomps ... Indifference to patients is utter ... Well, did the salary change his attitude to work ??

      A good, big, decent salary should correspond to work with a high coefficient of return ...
      1. +1
        7 June 2015 15: 42
        Quote: parafoiler
        Pay people with dignity and you will be rewarded!


        It would be more correct to say "Pay people decently for a decent job and you will be rewarded!"

        Another thing is how to determine exactly how much worthy you work.

        And with doctors it’s all the same easier - to give you the opportunity to fully choose (and not as it is now) which doctor to go to ... to whom the majority goes, he works with dignity ...
        1. Elk
          Elk
          0
          9 June 2015 14: 42
          Another thing is how to determine exactly how much worthy you work.

          My dear, I know how much the factory where I am currently registered takes for an hour of my work. I know very well how much an hour of my work as a specialist costs, on the side. Accordingly, your maxim may be considered garbage.
  5. +11
    7 June 2015 08: 24
    What do you want if in the defense industry an engineer earns less than a guest worker at a construction site.
    Only 10000 (ten thousand) Gastrikas will not replace 1 (one) engineer in production.
    1. +11
      7 June 2015 08: 50
      Quote: Strashila
      Only 10000 (ten thousand) Gastrikas will not replace 1 (one) engineer in production.

      The country has turned into a clan economy, where classmates or relatives in all significant places are classmates.
      I judge by my enterprise. Retired military men began to appear - it’s just some kind of horror. The straightforward retractors, with the same relatives and lack of education in their profile, make millions decisions, brought the enterprise to external management.
      I noticed that competent engineers with their opinions ceased to appear, loyalty became the main criterion for career growth.
      1. +5
        7 June 2015 09: 32
        Quote: APASUS
        The country has turned into a clan economy, where classmates or relatives in all significant places are classmates.

        Exactly, everywhere it is. We have the same thing, everywhere there are relatives, then friends, then, if there are empty seats,} | {0polysis.
        1. +2
          7 June 2015 15: 51
          Quote: anip
          Exactly, everywhere it is. We have the same thing, everywhere there are relatives, then friends, then, if there are empty seats,} | {0polysis.


          As they say who is to blame and what to do ...

          Therefore, the question is how to get rid of such people, because they are nearby, and even are relatives ...

          The idea is that the market mechanism would have to regulate this problem - only it will be through a hard fall in the country's economy. But in the 90s they did not introduce any market mechanism in essence ... and now there is almost no time for this and some other, but cardinally effective methods and solutions must be taken. This is the question - what to do then !!!
          1. 0
            7 June 2015 19: 55
            Quote: Dali
            . That is the question - what to do then!

            This is a fundamental question .. In general, it should sound like WHAT COUNTRY OUR AUTHORITY WANTS TO SEE? If strong and independent of other countries, then the approach should be different. The real concern for education at all levels, the real desire for a powerful industry, and this is the concern for staff and much more .. As an example, what was done in the USSR during the time of industrialization, the situation is very similar now, but now we have NEP, that is, buy and sell . and all of the above listed under NEP is physically impossible! That is, another question. But does the power really want to lead a strong and independent country, and most importantly, is it ready to sacrifice YOURSELF to achieve this? Without an answer to this question, everything else makes no sense ..
      2. anakonda
        +1
        7 June 2015 11: 03
        Dear, I’m off topic, but the discussion of the article affected the Russian economy and I wonder what the economic situation in the Kaliningrad region is, my brother bought an apartment there, he will not live there and invites me to live there, the opinion of people living or visiting there is very interesting there recently.
        1. +1
          7 June 2015 22: 50
          live normally
  6. +2
    7 June 2015 08: 31
    In the color of import substitution, resumption and increase in production, the shortage of specialists is felt very strongly, and of all stripes and ranks, from welders to designers. In the USSR, there were about 2400 enterprises in the defense industry, and at the moment just over 1200. The question of technical sovereignty however .And so far it is not necessary to wait for those production rates and frequent and global breakthroughs. And now I think the reanimation of our defense industry is going on. And, God forbid, our design bureaus and plants.
    1. +3
      7 June 2015 09: 31
      Quote: NEXUS
      And God forbid, our design bureaus and factories come to their senses.

      Do not find out. A strong defense requires a strong industry in general and science. And we have industry ... and science too. But there is Skolkovo, Chubais and nano.
  7. +17
    7 June 2015 08: 36
    Everyone puts bans on me, but how else can I react to such a h.r.e., like whining about a lack of personnel ?!
    I have many acquaintances who have received red diplomas from universities - literate and hardworking guys, many already middle-aged. And yet, what unites them all - all of them are officially unemployed or individual entrepreneurs, who interrupt as best they can. No one will ever offer them a job, no one is looking for such specialists and even more so will not attract them with decent pay.
    I don’t even want to read such articles, but you only react to the heading itself. What nonsense ?!
    The state needs to restore order in education and other fields, conduct personnel policies, and identify sensible people.
    Instead, there are a lot of "left" universities, which stupidly cut the loot, and very dubious things happen in old universities. For example, residents of Samara are well aware of the muddy story with the unification of Samara universities into one and the consequences for those who avoided it ...
    What I see happening around, it seems that it is only getting worse and worse.
    Then screams about hunger and stuff ... Ugh ...
    1. +4
      7 June 2015 11: 51
      And did these guys with honors go to INDUSTRIAL enterprises? Looking for an interesting job? Or were they just looking for a high salary? So at normal INDUSTRIAL enterprises connected with REAL production, NEVER graduates (be oh at least three times with a red diploma), if they haven’t already had a course from the second course, they will not be offered a HIGH salary. If it already works, then another thing. Otherwise, it is the money thrown away - the graduate is unfamiliar with the specifics of the enterprise and will only relearn for normal work for two or three years, and unlearn hack work, as it was in high schools !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      1. +6
        7 June 2015 12: 32
        I personally went to enterprises - they didn’t take any work with any salary!
        Really walked a lot. Attempted repeatedly.
        Everything was decided strictly by pull. Even at least get yourself a shit-cleaner ...
        and I have enough experience in various technical fields. I won’t go to work, plowing uncle. Already uncle himself ... Although, from a million a month I can consider proposals ...
        Although, I am sure and know that with my initiative and other qualities, I could raise at least something in any field. But ... Now it's too late. I just drew conclusions for myself, where and whom I need to look for in my employees ... And my opinion is diametrically different from that voiced by you (NEVER graduate (be oh, at least three times with a red diploma), if he already does not work for them from the second course, of course will not offer a HIGH salary). Any person understands adequately, I’m telling you my secret that a good specialist can only be obtained in this way! Until he is spoiled, while he has plenty of initiative, youth, health, naivete winked etc.
        I went through all this myself and for the very easter cakes I wouldn’t do a lot now, but I wouldn’t do something morally ...
        So, at "your" "INDUSTRIAL enterprises associated with REAL production" idiots are sitting and waving about idiots ...
        It’s difficult to find a good employee! And in the personnel departments, the weak-minded and the schizoid work, who have learned from the primers, but there is no mind and imagination. Once I was at an interview with a super-wise specialist like that ... Just blowing dust in my eyes ...
        All managers need to drive pissing brooms from everywhere ...
        1. Elk
          Elk
          +2
          7 June 2015 14: 10
          . Any person understands adequately, I’m telling you my secret that a good specialist can only be obtained in this way! Until he is spoiled, until he has in z.p.pe full of initiative, youth, health, winked naivety, etc.

          I agree. Only to such a young and early is it advisable to put a person with experience who is simply able to show and tell what is not taught in universities and saved from many mistakes. I know what I'm talking about. Itself went this way. At one time he was a student, then one good person asked - he became a mentor. True, in the head holding, some top heard a combination: 6C. He liked it, lowered the team and the next round of insanity began at our enterprise ... As a result, he spat and sent it all away ...
          Z.Y. My student after me lasted about another year, and then he also spat and dumped.
        2. 0
          7 June 2015 18: 14
          LLC Building, LLC SEZ them. S. Ordzhonikidze, LLC Saratov Radio Instrument Plant, These and many other enterprises in Saratov take graduates, only s / n give a small one. because graduates do not know how to work.
        3. +1
          7 June 2015 22: 55
          therefore, nowhere and not enough specialists HR officers opinion with yours is diametrically opposed, any conversation begins with "Work experience? oh no? no vacancies!" and where is the graduate really experience to gain - if he is not taken anywhere
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +4
      7 June 2015 13: 26
      I confirm! Himself already 20 years professional unemployed. Specialty atomic physicist. Most of my release at MEPhI has traveled around the world. Literally in May, friends from Canada came, stayed and returned to their native Canadian land. So there would be a desire, and there are still specialists. And as for the desire to gather specialists, there are deep doubts - very, very, very ..... deep.
  8. +6
    7 June 2015 08: 43
    It is necessary to make work for the state attractive. Maybe allocate a loan for housing (a percentage will be paid by the state), develop plans for advanced training of promising specialists, career growth, in short, make the work in the defense industry prestigious and promising. Why then the state apparatus? At stake is the survival of the state itself, surrounded by dishonest partners. And you can’t do without a state program!
    1. +10
      7 June 2015 08: 58
      True, there should be incentives. But, the first priority is personnel policy.
      Most people in their life do not see any participation of the state and its manifestations of activity, except for tax, pension, etc. affairs ...
      Let's say they trumpeted about the TRP, some other things ... But where is it all ?! In some narrow circle of "friends" and PR people ?! This and so on, quite low-cost for the state, almost does not exist. Although they criticize the CPSU, there was a "general line of the party", where there was the main meaning - a person can rise in status only by benefiting the state, participating in tasks and goals. The need for their country was visible to people. And now they are not even capable of propaganda and some kind of systematic approaches. Complete lack of initiative and inadequate ...
      1. 0
        13 June 2015 15: 08
        vvvvv
        Although they criticize the CPSU, there was a "general line of the party", where there was the main meaning - a person can rise in status only by benefiting the state


        .... have spoken in a bunch. More specifically, AZLK-and where are these wonderful engineers who created the "Moskvich-412". The meaning is to sculpt sorry full "g_ _ _ o" and what is the use of the state and people? And the GAZ-53 ?, and the DT-74 ???????
    2. +2
      7 June 2015 09: 28
      Quote: met
      in short, to make the work in the defense industry prestigious and promising.

      In short, why only in the defense?
      1. 0
        7 June 2015 09: 46
        So far, to designate a priority, because it is a state interest. And why should the state care about the "private trader's" social package? In fair competition, the private trader will raise the bar himself.
        It is possible to make a personnel reserve for civil servants - for some - the green light in their future careers, for others - red. But at the state level, legislatively, with a clear indication of performance criteria. Correctly write in the comments that to select for the civil service (understood by the GO as a feeder) not relatives and lovers, but seriously, as in the CPSU, with recommendations and a share of responsibility for the recommended.
        1. +1
          7 June 2015 16: 12
          Quote: met
          For now, priority is indicated because it is a state interest.

          In fact, a strong defense industry is impossible without a strong industry in general. The defense industry does not exist by itself; it makes extensive use of products and non-defense enterprises. If this triviality is not understood, then I do not know ...
        2. +1
          7 June 2015 23: 03
          whose son-in-law was Churbanov? This is so, offhand ...

          "but seriously, as under the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, with recommendations and a share of responsibility for what is recommended."
      2. The comment was deleted.
  9. +10
    7 June 2015 08: 57
    What to say about the article? Instead of whining, they would offer something sensible. If someone thinks that for 20-30 thousand, specialists will tear the navel, sitting under the boss, sorry, manager blockhead with a salary of 200-300 thousand, then this is not even stupidity, but cretinism. Learn from Chubais. Ten years in nano and nano results, but what a salary! And there’s nothing to run to Europe for.
    1. +4
      7 June 2015 09: 24

      Stinger SU  Today, 08:57 New


      ... If someone thinks that for 20-30 thousand specialists will navel, sitting under the boss, sorry, manager blockhead with a salary of 200-300 thousand, then this is not even stupidity, but cretinism.
      There are altruists, but very, very few of them. But the overwhelming majority wants to work and get paid for it, which would be enough. Totally agree with you. And "someone" should think about it hard.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      7 June 2015 09: 58
      Quote: Stinger
      Learn from Chubais. Ten years in nano and nano results, but what a salary! And there’s nothing to run to Europe for.


      Ah, well done !!!

      PS Not Chubais, naturally ...
    4. 0
      7 June 2015 11: 53
      They will tear and tear. Not all and not all can be bought for money. But !!!!!! That managers need to be reduced - a bit too divorced and little use.
      1. Elk
        Elk
        0
        7 June 2015 14: 15
        Dear Stasia!
        The question is, are you married?
    5. +1
      7 June 2015 16: 13
      Quote: Stinger
      something to say about the article? Instead of whining, they would offer something sensible.

      What to offer? While those who sit in the Kremlin, nothing will change.
    6. 0
      7 June 2015 23: 07
      A little off topic, but hooked:
      "More than two million ammunition and slightly less than 400 million rounds of small arms ammunition were subject to disposal. In general, over the years of the implementation of the current federal target program, about nine million pieces of various ammunition and more have been disposed of. 1,7 Billion Ammo to small arms. "
      open a shooting range at military units + shooting sections + pre-conscripts + anyone who wants to shoot (for a cartridge of rubles 20 to take) = here you have prepared arrows + 30 lard arrived
      1. 0
        7 June 2015 23: 42
        Quote: your1970
        open a shooting range at military units + shooting sections + pre-conscripts + anyone who wants to shoot (for a cartridge of rubles 20 to take) = here you have prepared arrows + 30 lard arrived

        Depends on how expired the cartridges are.

        If greatly expired (years on 10-20-30 like that) - the consequences can be .. very different.

        That the bullet from the barrel, like a stone flies out of a slingshot - I saw it myself (gunpowder burns ... mmm ... meeeeally ..). I did not see what the breech could inflate, but they said that it happens.

        So - well, nafig him, shoot such cartridges stop
  10. +10
    7 June 2015 09: 14
    It seems that the article is correct, and everyone understands everything correctly ... But only after all, things are still there !!! Nothing is changing in education, or rather, everything is changing FOR THE WORSE !!!! As a person who has worked for 40 years at a university, I declare with responsibility: in Russia there is NO higher engineering education! There are bachelors and masters diplomas, there are under-graduates (suitable for installing plastic windows and roof repairs) ... But there are no young Engineers! This year, another sign of the death of higher education appeared. Now we do not have a system of Higher Professional Education (HEP), but simply higher education (HE). So the ministry decided ... I.e. we no longer train professionals. Students study religious studies, rhetoric and culture of speech, conflictology and other secondary disciplines. There is no time for training ... And what does this mean? Everything is simple - lack of qualified engineering personnel will increase like an avalanche in all industries. An attempt to restore engineering education even today may fail, because in universities of a technical profile, the number of competent teachers capable of preparing an Engineer is drastically reduced. Tomorrow there will be no such teachers at all !!! Those. the reproduction of engineering personnel has ceased, and this means the close technical and technological death of Russia ...
    1. 0
      7 June 2015 09: 26
      Quote: drags33
      What does it mean? It's simple - the lack of qualified engineering personnel will increase like an avalanche in all industries.

      It would seem, and here Putin.
    2. 0
      7 June 2015 09: 58
      I agree 100%. Everything is written correctly. It can be added that university science is also ruined. Even being an optimist, it is very difficult for them to remain in the context of the illiterate actions of the Ministry of Higher Education
      1. 0
        13 June 2015 05: 49
        SAK0209
        ruined and university science


        The question is just what kind of science was this? some were closed 30 years ago, and then the country would not have lost anything !,
    3. +2
      7 June 2015 11: 55
      Yes you are right. I work in a technical university and confirm everything. Numb, reluctantly, but a diploma is needed. And they demand a salary - this is about the graduates of our university, in particular.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +5
          7 June 2015 18: 23
          Quote from rudolf
          How is the Yakovlevsky Harvester doing,

          I welcome Rudolph. On August 13, 2012, by the decision of the arbitration court, Saratov Aviation Plant CJSC ceased to exist as a legal entity and was excluded from the state register of enterprises.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            13 June 2015 14: 23
            There were a lot of "engineers", but could these miracle engineers have done at least one good thing, then the USSR would be the most advanced country! And they did complete bullshit ...
    4. +2
      7 June 2015 16: 05
      And which ones are there? Everyone has long been ruined ... Those who studied in the 2000s, even with all their pathos, are simply half-educated. And now, after all those who really created something in the USSR finally died out, there are almost no more experienced creators left. Everyone moved to the service sector, to set up something, integrate something and collect something - this is the best that remains ...
    5. 0
      12 June 2015 05: 49
      ...... I will not say that I do not agree, but to call the engineers (in the full sense of the word) that mass of technical specialists who were graduated with the same diplomas earlier (softer) ... is not a fact. Including specialists in universities .....
  11. +3
    7 June 2015 09: 15
    Yes, this is the misfortune of modern Russia. We have a company of 400 people, 11 accountants, 4 lawyers, 3 economists. But the most interesting thing in accounting is 8 locksmiths. And so on polls. There are no sensible technicians, and if a young specialist comes, they offer him to either go on a shovel or mow the grass.
    1. 0
      7 June 2015 11: 56
      In the workshop they offer explanations. And if it’s really sensible, then in a year it will grow to a master, in two it will become an engineer.
      1. +2
        7 June 2015 16: 16
        Yeah, right after 2 years doing non-competitive crap with foreign countries, he will immediately become a sensible engineer - it's only in banana republics that they quickly become an intelligent engineer ... In normal countries, usually it takes from 3 completed projects. Think for example about Boeing, Siemens Mobility, Hyundai Merchant Marine, Mercedes-Benz and others ... Their projects take from 3 to 10 years, as a result of which an engineer grows up in 9 to 15 years. This is the one who understands the subtleties for creating goods at the lowest price with maximum quality, who understands not only the subtleties of the profile, but also the conceptual issues of their own and neighboring subject areas, and for the diploma they really worked, and did not do part-time work, and in the remaining time they gave bribes or somehow passed exams to pseudo-teachers "according to what is needed" ...

        We have everyone who read a book on how to program in Java, circuitry for idiots, or configure a Cisco router proudly equated with engineers, although in normal countries they have a level of technicians ...

        T.ch. we had engineers and sailed, at the moment there are only technicians left, but even they are moving normal ...
        1. 0
          7 June 2015 18: 11
          DRUG OUT. And normal work at the enterprises of the HOMELAND, even at private ....
          1. Elk
            Elk
            0
            9 June 2015 14: 35
            DRUG OUT.

            It seems to me that I am a little older and more experienced than you. Those who have nothing to do come to us. That's all. Personally, I did not fall down for a number of personal reasons.
            Thus, one can reason exactly as long as there is something to live for. But how it ends, then you kick the peasants out the door, because, he’s cattle, he can’t provide his family ... Let him even work at the HOMELAND ENTERPRISES.
    2. +2
      8 June 2015 10: 33
      Quote: ibragim
      There are no sensible techies, and if a young specialist comes, they offer him to either go on a shovel or mow the grass.

      One to one with my "office"! smile
  12. +12
    7 June 2015 09: 18
    That's for sure. Here recently, somehow, in an "impulse" to find something "new," I walked around several specialized defense enterprises experiencing, so to speak, "personnel hunger", they may offer something "interesting." To begin with, I was met at OK overdressed girls, obviously "not from the street" and began to "ride" according to my work biography, disgustingly wrinkling their nose and they were talking to me in such a tone as if I had come to be hired as farm laborers and they would do me a favor if they pick me up the unfortunate "from the street "to labor for a bowl of stew, because a salary of 20-22 thousand rubles is nothing more than a" bowl of stew "and you cannot call it, just pay for an apartment and for food for a month and then without" nishtyaks ", and even for a 10-hour worker day with "sometimes" working Saturday. Normal, right? So, until they begin to treat people who really produce something, and do not shift papers from one place to another, as the driving force of the economy, with appropriate remuneration for labor, sense will not be.
    1. +3
      7 June 2015 19: 48
      Well and madhouse !!! Actually, it is the duty of these girls to meet the candidate, and carry them to the right door. Further free, like a snot in flight.
      A friend told me a similar story when such a fifa began to fade, like "in what period of time will you be fully involved in work." And this is given the fact that people. knows about the future position only from 6 chaotic lines of the announcement. He asked her a counter question: "How many moves will you win a game in my chess?" In general, he sent this office further, although the head of the section where he was supposed to work called him several times.
  13. +4
    7 June 2015 09: 25
    Defense industry is experiencing personnel shortage

    But nothing that all industry is experiencing personnel shortages?
    By the way, "zaputintsy" and hurray-patriots, for this do not forget to say "thanks" to the guarantor.
    1. +4
      7 June 2015 11: 41
      I support my path in life - this confirms that the picture "Sailed" has emerged from somewhere in the late 90s. And when you talk about the situation in the country, many "zaputins", hurray-patriots - they are Indians, that is what I have to call them, they answer everything will be fine, but you try to get a logical argument from them, then in response there is some kind of absurdity. In short, enterprises, villages disappear, and the people believe in some kind of miracle that they say we will live without them.
      In short, they gave their MOTHERLAND for chewing gum, jeans and democracy (Demos are free citizens of Athens who had slaves, Kratos was power. They just forgot that there were also Okhlos, people).
    2. 0
      8 June 2015 19: 46
      And here DEAR there is a substitution of concepts. The guarantor is doing everything right from his place, but the executors in the form of governors and directors of factories in the person of "overdressed girls" are pursuing their own policy. And a person who comes for an interview, in fact, just needs to look at them like small dogs under their feet. He is not hired for them, but for an enterprise. But in order to weed out the uncertain or pretending - these "girls" - very much even. If I'm not sure and the girls are annoying, that's why I left, but I didn't leave and worked for 5 years at such an enterprise, and then the girls would communicate with me normally. True, I still had to quit, because the new director from Moscow, instead of production, began to produce tenants and put fences with gates on the floors (such as so that all others and others communicate through the document management system and do not run around the floors). Yeah, after that, only the salary began to decrease. Well, I quit and many others too.
      1. Elk
        Elk
        0
        9 June 2015 15: 13
        The guarantor does everything right from his place

        Guarantor ... Do you know what he did in the mid-90s?
        And the person who came for an interview, in fact, you just need to look at them like little dogs under your feet.

        Yeah. Only these small dogs will wipe their feet about him. This is a passed stage for me.
        But in order to weed out the insecure or pretending - these "girls" - very much even.

        It’s dangerous to let these girls on the panel, for fools. But really a specialist, just having talked with such a contingent, will send this company far and for a long time.
  14. +5
    7 June 2015 09: 47
    How not cool and the Soviet system of education and employment was much better.
  15. +7
    7 June 2015 10: 12
    I also do not understand why such articles continue to be published. Already ALL is clear. Well, really EVERYTHING. Starting from school, I hear about staff shortages, I see miserable salaries and the destruction of the education system. There is no need to finish even 11 classes in order to figure out what's what.
    1. +2
      7 June 2015 10: 41
      Quote: Lockout
      I also do not understand why such articles continue to be published. Already ALL is clear.

      Because the situation does not tend to change, or in homeopathic doses
    2. 0
      7 June 2015 16: 16
      Quote: Lockout
      Already ALL is clear. Well, really EVERYTHING.

      No, not everyone. and the guarantor ratings confirm this.
    3. +1
      7 June 2015 16: 19
      Quote: Lockout
      Already ALL is clear. Well, really EVERYTHING.

      No, not everyone. And the ratings of the guarantor confirm this.
  16. +8
    7 June 2015 10: 53
    There is no "staff shortage".
    There is a reluctance of the current "elite" (actually, TVAray!) To pay decent wages to those who directly produce food and material products.
    No "programs" (from our Prime Minister Dimona) will help.
    No "additional incentives" are needed. You just need to pay with dignity - and the person will buy himself an apartment, pay for the education of children, etc.
    1. +2
      7 June 2015 12: 00
      In the first, the approximation is absolutely true. But who will undertake to realize if HISTORIANS are sitting in the leadership of technical universities, and the department of physical education is led by philosophers with a Ph.D. in research on the phenomenon of prostitution ????
      1. +1
        7 June 2015 12: 55
        Ah hah ... laughing
        People clearly chose the topic for a reason ... And he is drawn to the department of physical education - closer to athletes and events, maybe to locker rooms with showers, which also need to be supervised ...
      2. Elk
        Elk
        +1
        7 June 2015 17: 37
        and the department of physical education is headed by philosophers with a Ph.D. in the study of the phenomenon of prostitution?

        Well so, that's right ... Boys on the left and pimps, girls on the right ...
  17. +2
    7 June 2015 11: 04
    After school, to take short-term courses, start working, continue to study in absentia in absentia on a secondary special, and then finish in absentia the tower. And so they wipe their pants for 5 years, and it’s dangerous to give a broom at the exit.
    1. 0
      7 June 2015 12: 01
      Already not five, already four. But your path is right. I communicate in the classroom with students going your way - very adequate people. Even in my subjects, sometimes advice is more accurate than I might have expected !!!!!
      1. +1
        7 June 2015 13: 01
        But how can a teacher give the student enough time in absentia?
        How can working and family be able to want and be able to delve into something well?
        This is all utopia, I do not agree!
        Good training - ONLY ONE AND ONLY WITH VERY HARD DEMAND FROM STUDENT.
        All the disciplines that I studied in person and in which the most rigorous props were beaten - I knew best of all. And he knew very little objects of soft teaching.
        And recently, I had a fight on one site of educational work orders with a teacher from Moscow, who was keen on completing educational work. She has no quality of work, and ambition and quarrelsomeness are beyond.
        1. 0
          7 June 2015 21: 34
          I had such a half of the group, I made kurts for them, as a result, the whole group deals with normal grandmothers with all kinds of crap not in their specialty ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
  18. +4
    7 June 2015 11: 16
    For "met" a: What kind of housing loan? First of all, it is necessary to BUILD or BUY housing for your employees. This is exactly what happened in Soviet times. In addition, the enterprises had their own and other "social sphere" - their own kindergartens, clinics, recreation centers, etc. So, as for the enterprises of the military-industrial complex, the planned profit is LEGAL - up to 25%, which was included in the calculation for military products and was accepted by the customers of these products. And this is in addition to the wages of the main workers included in the same calculation. And many went to enterprises for this reason. You have to live. And, I would like to, good. Therefore, many went to technical universities and studied there not to be graded on the record. Others went to vocational schools at enterprises and received highly prestigious and, accordingly, highly paid blue-collar occupations. Today, only profit is at the forefront, and where can it come from without highly qualified personnel? Meanwhile, the "damned" capitalist Henry Ford at the dawn of the last century in his memoirs "My Life, My Achievements" formulated the principles of material priorities for the formation of production personnel. By the way, this is a very clever book and very useful for modern production managers. And you also need to start with education, starting with school. At one time, the West recognized all the breakthrough achievements of our science and technology thanks to our education system. Why was it abandoned, except perhaps in pursuit of Sorov grants for individuals at the helm of our education? And, as a result, today it is enough to judge about our general literacy at least by the comments on the pages of VO.
  19. -1
    7 June 2015 11: 42
    Hu from Ivan Zasursky? I still don’t understand where the people came from. But he gives advice.
    Article minus. They wrote incompetent cranks at the level of a recruiting agency.
    Complaints about why lawyers and economists are not being taken to TsAGI are understandable. These places have been occupied for a long time. Well, a person with an engineer’s diploma in the military-industrial complex will find work. For what money it’s another question. There is no such trouble with working specialties. If it’s normal to pay (and not to pay) and working conditions are normal, then there are no special problems with personnel.
    1. 0
      8 June 2015 07: 52
      Quote: ZuboreZ
      .If you pay normally

      What are we talking about !!! Kaby paid ...
  20. +7
    7 June 2015 11: 44
    Hmm, when I wrote the comments above, I thought there would be at least the slightest "revelation" in them, but I see everyone sees everything in the same way and write in addition if only what I would also like to say, but have not yet said.
    That's interesting, decision-makers - they think differently, or the current state of affairs on attaching kids and lovers, plus cuts - all this suits you more ?!
    And to ordinary people with all this, their abandonment and uselessness, a difficult existence, this can cause deep resentment, because life can already be said to have passed while someone else was eating and eating ...
    So when I received the diplomas, I was handed them in and sent to walk in the woods, although there was even one red.
    It must be so that the university graduate was obliged to find a job and not for a beggarly salary. In Japan, if the country is adequate, then there is actually lifelong employment and people understand what they are learning for. And in Russia, the education system today exists purely for the commercial purpose of extracting money from students, and what’s next, they don’t give a damn ...
    Moreover, everyone understands this system, that for the sake of knowledge there is no point in learning, because employment is decided differently. When I arrived, having learned about the vacancy, everyone was interested in nothing that I know and can do, but how did I find out about the vacancy ... Well, what, it’s natural to try to attach relatives and friends ...
    As a result, sessions are being bought stupidly at universities and there is no need to go to sessions at all.
    I even know from direct hands (who invented it) that de facto scammers gather and break through the branch of the university rector, opening from and to everywhere in the structure of their long-corrupt people. And so there is no education. Students are simply sent to buy everything they need.
    I am in the subject and I can say that all the universities I know are totally corrupt. Those. the teachers themselves do all the academic work, and there is no need to give them to students in their arms - they pass it themselves, and they put exams without seeing the students. And the leadership is certainly in proportion, apart from the huge amount of money they receive officially ... Deans and rectors receive astronomical amounts legally.
    In short, khan to everything. It's hopeless ... Everything is completely inadequate. Really comes to "statements" for bribes. Such statements for study groups ...
    This is not fiction or exaggeration. Everything is much worse than mentioned. I know because himself is close to "coward" to this topic. I know all the ins and outs in all the "intimate" details.
    That is why it is so "funny" for me to read arguments about "personnel shortage" ...
  21. +2
    7 June 2015 12: 07
    Rosstat didn’t write an article? Or is it Belarusians riveted? Because besides tenderness, the article doesn’t cause anything more ...
  22. +1
    7 June 2015 12: 07
    Thanks to Kam Fursenko and Lebanon
  23. +4
    7 June 2015 13: 36
    Incompetent plant management (in most cases ... but they can count money superbly). In the workshops. Only one goal is to save and grab yourself. Overhaul in the workshop comes down to almost one painting of equipment that is 30 years old in hard operation (pipe plant) People they don’t want to move to a higher rank, the deprivation of the premium is constant (the tariff is 10-15 thousand the rest is the premium) And now you can scream cheers, we will raise Russia from its knees ... With this attitude, it will most likely fall even stronger ....
  24. +6
    7 June 2015 14: 31
    There is no "staff shortage".
    And the question is not only about salary.
    See how the work itself is organized there, the competency structure of the management pyramid, the regulatory system ...
    I returned to the space industry in 2007-2012.
    The humor is that there almost all of you could replace all the developers of electronics research institutes:
    they do projects on 51 processors (this is very simple and primitive), these projects do not have a normal technological unit, the professional level of embedded software - normal programmers call this a * code, the finer points are mathematics and professional expression of it in an embedded program - At my leisure, I soaked the young hope star of the NIIII 50 times in speed of code execution. The level of design work - in the late 80s - early 90s, I trained the local public PCAD-4.5. Since then, they remember and only know how to draw a line, a circle and a rectangle.
    It was clearly explained to me that my participation in the projects is not particularly expected here. A small salary - please - only for coming to work

    I still wedged into the projects. And what kind of humor was when in the network I discovered that in the network I got the results of the stages of work before the actual start. In those days, I actively worked on freelance and outsourcing (including for Americans) and did the whole development and production of prototypes myself and was much better. There is a serious conflict between the logic of creating this new technology for my projects (here I was an actual ideologist) and the fact that I'm just a six for the top and dumb Network Graphics.

    Many words in such articles are said about the insufficient qualifications of young people.
    Most young people are not self-motivated to seriously work on their theoretical and mathematical training. And for the result you have to work here for decades. And the high results of individual young people are that they follow the specialist who spent money on their qualifications. They glow with "reflected light".
    And now we see candidates, doctors of sciences, honored machine builders ..., academicians of space sciences - who have a status, but from whom, like a goat of milk, they climb up to you - "let's milk you .."
  25. +3
    7 June 2015 15: 49
    Quote: Fantik13
    RUSSIAN is waiting WHEN they will come to him and OFFER a job
    * FOREIGNER * -SHE IS LOOKING FOR HIMSELF


    And then the rockets fall. I can "fit" the Uzbeks there. They can do anything and are not pretentious about their salaries. True, it turns out from the fifth time. Well, nothing, there are many missiles. Five less, ten, in 50 years will be more.
    Children's talk. The lag, in the beginning of the 20th century was reduced, somewhere in 30 years, and at the beginning of the 21st and 50 years it will not be enough. So, all of our potential (scientific and educational) is transformed into the ability to eat sneakers. But this is also good!
    1. +1
      8 June 2015 07: 50
      Quote: loaln
      And then the rockets fall.

      Overalls ....
  26. +5
    7 June 2015 19: 32
    Workers specialties are practically not paid. You should not look at real earnings in advertising newsagents, but ask those who work there. The prestige of workers' specialties is trampled into the mud. And so on. etc.
  27. +1
    7 June 2015 22: 48
    How can I appoint Shoigu to lead the Ministry of Education? And to be honest, if the authorities have a better person than him? It would be nice if he became president.
  28. +1
    8 June 2015 01: 29
    And what can be expected with this approach?
  29. +2
    8 June 2015 02: 33
    So it’s necessary to invite specialists with an independence, since they themselves contribute to this by refusing economic cooperation with Russia, giving them citizenship, work, housing, and so on, as the Yankees removed the German specialists after the war, and everything starts in a serious way - I think the country's budget is not very will suffer, in any case - it’s faster and cheaper until we grow our staff, but something tells us that we need to accelerate in this matter!
  30. 0
    26 June 2015 14: 24
    Quote: vvvvv
    in Russia, the education system today exists purely for the commercial purpose of extracting money from students, and what’s next, they don’t give a damn ...

    Mon Sher, education works in this vein in the last turn ... First of all, the State itself (as I love my Motherland)! Look around - the State threw its citizen in EVERYTHING !!! Housing, work, medicine, education ... Anything at all! And after more than 20 years, someone wants to find specialists with a capital letter in working professions? And who prepared them? But did the State need them? Or did he need economists and lawyers more ???
    1. delasys
      0
      1 July 2015 09: 16
      Right in everything. The factory where I work had a bunch of specialized vocational schools (lyceum), somewhere in the late 90s the factory threw off all unnecessary assets (sanatoriums, vocational schools, technical schools and institutes). By inertia, students were taken to practice until the mid-2000s. At the moment, the factory policy in terms of personnel is as follows - We are recruiting workers with an experience and rank of at least 5th. Since the image of the plant is low - no one wants to come to us))) Their cadres are not being prepared, those who are left + recruited migrant workers (caught up) work.