Military Review

News project BZHRK "Barguzin"

66
In the domestic media appeared news on the development of a new combat railroad missile system (BZHRK). As follows from recent reports, the work is going on in full accordance with the schedule and in the foreseeable future will allow the construction of new systems to begin.


Last Thursday in the domestic media there were reports of the latest statements by the leadership of the Ministry of Defense. According to Rossiyskaya Gazeta, citing Interfax, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov spoke about the ongoing work on the creation of the BZhRK project, codenamed Barguzin. According to the deputy minister, the development of the project is going according to plan. The authors of the project do not face any difficulties. At the moment, the Moscow Heat Engineering Institute, which is responsible for the creation of a new complex, has completed the development of a draft design.

Y. Borisov also revealed some details of plans for the construction and deployment of new equipment. By the end of this decade, it is planned to begin the full construction of new BZHRK. So, before 2020, one of the strategic missile divisions should receive up to five regiments armed with Barguzin complexes. More accurate figures have not yet called.

The Deputy Minister of Defense indirectly confirmed that the new Barguzin BZHRK will be significantly different from the previously used Molodets complexes of a similar purpose. According to Yu. Borisov, the new BZhRK will not differ in any way from ordinary trains. It is expected that this will increase the secrecy of the transfer of "rocket trains" and significantly reduce the likelihood of their detection on the patrol route.

According to earlier press reports, the development of a new BZHRK project began in 2012 and is being carried out by the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering. As follows from the latest news, the drafting project has now been completed. Thus, during the project some success was achieved and an important design stage was completed. Over the next few years, a technical design should be developed, as well as test systems built and tested. As a result of all these works, by the 2020, the Strategic Missile Forces should receive the first Barguzin production complexes.

Until recently, the issue of a rocket planned for use was relevant. There were various assumptions on this subject. According to different versions, the Barzhuzin BZHRK was supposed to be equipped with RS-24 "Yars", PC-26 "Frontier" missiles or products based on them. In addition, the use of an intercontinental ballistic missile for submarines P-30 "Bulava" was not excluded. Last December, it was announced that the main armament of the new BZHRK would be the Yars or Yars-M rocket. Thanks to this, it is expected that it will be possible to ensure the highest possible degree of unification with existing missile systems and, as a result, to simplify the development and construction of new systems.

Other features of a promising railroad missile complex are still the subject of controversy due to the lack of official information. Obviously, according to the general architecture of the BZHRK, the Barguzin will resemble the well done Molodets complex with the RT-23UTTH rocket. The structure of this complex will include one or several locomotives (depending on the total weight of the train), wagons for combat crews, life support systems, as well as wagons with launchers.

The experience of the Molodets complex allows us to speak with confidence about the design of the car-launcher. Apparently, this element of the complex will be made in the form of a freight car or refrigerator wagon, with minimal differences from similar products for civilian use. In the internal volume of the car will be located the transport and launch container of the rocket and its attachment system to the lifting boom. Thus, before launching the roof of the car will open, and the task of the boom will be to lift the rocket container in a vertical position. A different launcher looks impractical or technically impossible.

News project BZHRK "Barguzin"
The alleged composition of BZHRK "Barguzin". Infographics "Rossiyskaya Gazeta"


Of great interest are the words of Yu. Borisov about the disguise of the new BZHRK. According to him, the “rocket train” of the new model will have the minimum possible differences from the usual compositions. It should be recalled that the complex "Well done" had several noticeable differences from other trains. In particular, due to the large launch weight of the rocket and the launcher, the cars had to be equipped with a reinforced chassis, distinguishing them from other rolling stock. There were also other differences. All this, to a certain extent, unmasked the BZHRK “Molodets”, although on the whole the secrecy of the complex received good marks.

Apparently, the key to solving the problem of stealth was the use of new missiles. According to open data, the RS-24 “Yars” missile is more than twice as light as the PT-23РТХ product. Among other things, this allows us to simplify the design of the car-launcher and, as a result, not to use special equipment and various elements capable of unmasking it.

The Deputy Minister of Defense states that the first combat railway missile systems of the new model will be transferred to the Strategic Missile Forces by the end of this decade. Such information may be cause for optimism. According to the 2012-13 information, by the end of the decade it was planned to complete development work and begin preparation for complex testing. The supply of serial technology was attributed to the next decade. According to updated data, OCD will be completed much earlier, which will allow you to perform all the necessary work over the next five years. Thanks to this, the production of Barguzin serial complexes and the transfer of such equipment to the troops will begin in a few years.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rg.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://tass.ru/
Author:
66 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. silver169
    silver169 8 June 2015 07: 14 New
    35
    BZHRK "Barguzin" is not just a necessary, but an extremely necessary complex that must be adopted as soon as possible by Russia. Judging by what is stated in the article, the complex can simply dissolve in the endless Russian expanses. This is precisely what the enemies of Russia feared and are afraid of, it was not for nothing that they insisted so much on the destruction of the previous BZHRK "Molodets". If only to be in time ...
    1. max702
      max702 8 June 2015 09: 21 New
      +3
      The development of the project for the new BZHRK was started in 2012 and is being carried out by the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering. As follows from the latest news, to date, the creation of a preliminary design has been completed.
      For three years and only a sketch ??? Somehow criminally not enough ..
      I sincerely hope that this is "true" information, and when 2017-5 complexes are on duty in 6, let it be a surprise ..
      1. sancho
        sancho 8 June 2015 09: 43 New
        14
        Greetings to Mishka Gorbachev am

        Not bad he tried for his "friends" ...

        Well done chinese, they would not stand on ceremony with such Bears, regardless of status!
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 8 June 2015 22: 40 New
          0
          In the Chinese, such bitches would never have gotten to such a position.
      2. RAYS
        RAYS 8 June 2015 22: 45 New
        +1
        Without a serious engineering education, it is impossible to imagine what a draft design is - therefore, you have a false idea. I propose to remove your words "criminal" and "not enough".
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 9 June 2015 00: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: max702
        For three years and only a sketch ??? Somehow criminally not enough ..

        This puzzled me too! The rocket, in principle, is, the rolling stock is also, the overhead wire removal system is available; the pegs are in place, the navigation system and the geodetic reference system have been worked out ... Look, the heavy "Sarmat" has already entered the throw tests.
        Therefore, you are most likely right:
        in 2017 5-6 complexes will be on duty and let this be a surprise ..
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 June 2015 12: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: silver169
      Judging by the set out in the article, the complex is able to simply dissolve in the vast Russian expanses.

      Not able to. For one simple reason: the BZHRK is moving along the public railway, the movement of which is regulated by the ACS. And in the ACS BZHRK stand out from the rest of the compositions at once according to several criteria:
      - short train with excess traction (for 100% reservation requirement);
      - points of composition appearance in the system;
      - Permanent composition and movement without calling on loading / unloading / reformation;
      - safety measures when driving.
      At VIF2-NE, it was written that to obtain information that allows identifying the position of the BZHRK in the current time accurate to the stage, it is enough to have access to the ACS at the level of a separate road.

      All the invisibility of the BZHRK in modern conditions is equal to the invisibility of the SSBN, moving in the surface on a civilian channel.
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 8 June 2015 13: 09 New
        +4
        Well, if it is all so noticeable and easily calculated, then why did our sworn friends write with boiling water demanding its destruction? After all, it was easier to keep silent and continue to control the movement of the BZHRK than to yell to the whole world.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 8 June 2015 13: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: kirpich
          Well, if it is all so noticeable and easily calculated, then why did our sworn friends write with boiling water demanding its destruction? After all, it was easier to keep silent and continue to control the movement of the BZHRK than to yell to the whole world.

          Did they demand? Or is it our patriots shouting that sworn friends demanded the destruction of the BZHRK (making this another argument in the fight against treacherous power)?

          Reduced BZHRK under the 1993 agreement. And even if this agreement did not exist, the BZHRK was doomed anyway. Because after the collapse of the USSR, Yuzhmash and Pavlograd remained in Ukraine. And Pavlograd died very quickly.
          Both the BZHRK and "Sharks" died for the same reason - the production and maintenance chain fell apart. Its Ukrainian part simply died.
      2. Bugor
        Bugor 8 June 2015 20: 41 New
        +1
        I don’t quite understand why they are so limited by invisibility? After all, the railway train has noticeability on the drum, try and hit it. Excluding versions with saboteurs - how to disable it? - He can shoot even from where, and every visitor to the site knows about one or two abandoned railway lines. If I know where from five kilometers from the capital you can flop off the wheels (and the site nearby is concrete-asphalt), then the General Staff certainly remember this. All stealth is useless. Anyway, the BZHRK cannot be destroyed without target designation and cruise missiles. And to shoot down missiles is the fiefdom of air defense.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 8 June 2015 22: 45 New
          +1
          And to shoot down missiles is the fiefdom of air defense.
          - so who interferes with air defense in the composition? The principle is the same.
          1. Bugor
            Bugor 8 June 2015 22: 54 New
            0
            Well so and I about the same ...
            But is air defense necessary anywhere in the Chelyabinsk region? There the mouse will not fly overnight, and try and find such a target ..
            Not only sabotage with the installation of a beacon or with the detonation of the BZHRK itself - no options. They showed how they were guarded by the zombie creator - this is just what they allowed to show ...
        2. opus
          opus 9 June 2015 00: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: Bugor
          After all, the railway train has noticeability on the drum, try and hit it.

          1.DRG
          2. Just a sabotage (rail slammed)
          3. Cover the places of basing (military camp, special unit)
          4. Cover the launch point (it does the BZ not on the move and not anywhere, but SPECIFICALLY)
          5. UAVs or a bunch of them released from the nearest farm (you can bring in our submarine customs)
          Quote: Bugor
          And to shoot down missiles is the fiefdom of air defense.

          RF Air Defense Zone look, everything will become clear
      3. NordUral
        NordUral 8 June 2015 22: 43 New
        0
        - short train with excess traction (for 100% reservation requirement);
        - points of composition appearance in the system;
        - Permanent composition and movement without calling on loading / unloading / reformation;
        - safety measures when driving.
        - everything is solved. For example, according to item 1 - the composition of wagons with dummies is lengthened or for personnel to increase comfort. And also with a reserve of fuel. which is also good or more options.
        For the rest - upon request I will give out solutions to problems.
        1. opus
          opus 9 June 2015 00: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: NordUral
          according to item 1 - the composition of wagons with dummies is lengthened or for personnel for increased comfort


          Will not work
          1. it will barely pull
          2. permanent location, restrictions there (hangars)
          1. Dikson
            Dikson 9 June 2015 23: 14 New
            0
            Hangars, say .. But what, in our country there are few railway tunnels? Or are there not enough mountains? .. Yes, roll out three of these Barguzins one by one in Baikal-Amur - and you’re tired of looking for them ..
            1. Simple
              Simple 10 June 2015 13: 13 New
              +1
              a person writes about a place of permanent basing: that is, rest of drugs, infrastructure, storage places, special warheads, well ....
              In tunnels, this cannot be done.
      4. RAYS
        RAYS 8 June 2015 22: 50 New
        +1
        I propose not to talk about things that are inaccessible to you and not to draw harsh conclusions because of your incompetence.
      5. opus
        opus 9 June 2015 00: 14 New
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Not able to

        Right.
        I will add a BZHRK-letter, it is immediately "visible", even without an ACS
        What was real under the USSR (secrecy regime, security, etc.) is not real now.
        RAO "Russian Railways" is a commercial organization, with a LOT of daughters, such commercial ones, I don't even know
        Take a look at any bureaucrat of Russian Railways, it is clear to which god he is praying.
      6. l12345
        l12345 26 June 2015 13: 51 New
        0
        1. Why short? The average freight train is 50-60 wagons. The car's carrying capacity is 60 tons. The mass of the rocket is 50 tons. What are the problems of making a normal length train? And if the train is made up of 80 cars, then additional sections of locomotives are usually always put on such trains. Therefore, he will not stand out from this.
        2. About points did not understand ??? There are hundreds of trains in the train movement system. How did he stand out there?
        3. A part of the cars of models can change and change the number of trains.
        4. How will these measures influence the identification of the composition? Armed guards will ride in the cars. How can this be revealed. They are unlikely to be walking with shotguns perons ....
      7. ua1osm
        ua1osm 16 June 2016 12: 24 New
        0
        You write some nonsense with an armored car. The program for the Russian Railways control system is written not by the Americans, but by our programmers. For the secretive identification of such letter trains, the program changes accordingly, so that they are visible only to train dispatchers ensuring traffic safety in this section, and they give a subscription of the highest category and will not report to the Pentagon. Moreover, during the passage of any FWS in the area of ​​a particular dispatcher, three VBOS hebeshniks with shoulder straps of colonels will sit next to him and have direct contact with the General Staff and the support services of the FWL.
        What really degrades the effectiveness of SZhRK? In 1988, while hunting with my father, we saw the SZhRK coming from the north at a full speed of about 80 km / h at the station. Luchtonga North g. Even when the train was 500 m away, I saw the M62 locomotives, which we have on the traction arms of the Northern Railway. no, and told my father - look, the atomic train is coming. Foreign locomotives easily unmask SZhRK, as well as long-wheelbase cars. When creating "Barguzins" it is necessary to carefully copy the composition and appearance of ordinary refsections. As for locomotives, it is necessary to create special three-section locomotives, which would have diesel engines, like diesel locomotives, but at the same time would be equipped with pantographs and would have double power supply from the contact network, like electric locomotives, this is necessary for complete camouflage. Disguise them as a VL80k electric locomotive.
        In the presence of voltage in the cop under normal conditions, the locomotive conducts a short train powered by the cop. In the absence of voltage in the cop or in combat conditions, the diesel starts, and the locomotive drives the train like a diesel locomotive. If necessary, autonomously deploy three rocket launchers, three sections of the locomotive are disconnected, and each takes its own launcher. Such a locomotive will not unmask the train. Short trains do not unmask themselves - the forest is full of prefabricated trees, and several camper cars with a round forest can be attached to this train for camouflage.
    3. Sniper 74
      Sniper 74 8 June 2015 12: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: silver169
      Just to be in time ...

      Considering that the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering began developing this complex in 2012, and completed preliminary design only in 2015 (in other words, for three years it only drew an image of the complex on a Whatman paper), adoption by the end of 2020 seems extremely vague.
    4. gregor6549
      gregor6549 8 June 2015 13: 31 New
      +4
      The BZHRK could have "dissolve" in the vast expanses of 20 years ago, but now it is unlikely to be able to dissolve, because "Opponents" and domestic scientists have long developed a set of methods and technical means that make it possible not only to detect BZHRK on endless expanses, but also to identify each of the detected BZHRK by its individual "portrait". It has already been written about this more than once on this site, but each time the illusions about the elusive "Joe" are repeated over and over again. Moreover, the wheel systems of the Topol and Tier type are an order of magnitude higher than the BZHRK in terms of stealth, if only because the routes of movement are not written for them, while the BZHRK can only move along the piece of iron and cannot "jump" from it at all desire.
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 8 June 2015 15: 21 New
        0
        Yars .... eyedid
      2. Ramzaj99
        Ramzaj99 8 June 2015 19: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: gregor6549
        allowing not only to detect BZHRK in endless spaces but also to identify each of the detected BZHRK by its individual "portrait".

        One thing to discover, another thing to get.
        Yes, and to discover ...... we are not in Luxembourg, which can be walked on foot, we have really endless railways. And in matters of disguise, technology has gone far. Yes, and certainly for one real Barguzin, there will be a couple of false ones, as it was with Molodets, so keep an eye on each one.
        And this is the pulling of resources in peacetime, and the mandatory 100% guarantee for the defeat of dummies in the (non-godly) war. And this is not easy given the constant movement.
        1. opus
          opus 9 June 2015 00: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Ramzaj99
          , we have really endless railway

          Delusion
          we have in 3 times shorter than in the USA


          it is not the length that is important, but the density (it is very easy to "find" 1 branch of the Transsib)



          in terms of density, we are in the "opera of the world", Egypt barely, barely bypassed)


          ==================================
          they have great places to "hide"



          Quote: Ramzaj99
          .we are not Luxembourg

          in order to get to the railway, all echelons of air defense / missile defense must be overcome. and we have it empty
        2. gregor6549
          gregor6549 9 June 2015 03: 12 New
          0
          In order for a false BZHRK to attract the attention of an adversary, in all respects it must be almost identical to a real BZHRK, which is very difficult and expensive to do. Further. Since the BZHRK is one of the most serious threats for opponents, they will not spare any money to solve the problem of reliably detecting the BZHRK, its identification, tracking it and, if necessary, neutralization (which does not always mean the destruction of the BZHRK, but can be reduced, for example, to intercepting the missile launchers launched by him in the initial sections of the trajectory when all the warheads are still in the same “bottle.” It is not for nothing that they are building a PRETTY fence around Russia. The states have all the structures from DARPA and universities to such corporations as Lockheed Martin, Boeing, etc. to solve the task in the shortest possible time. Again, they have a backlog on this topic since the days of the BZHRK "Molodets". Yes, then they managed to persuade the leadership of the USSR on the elimination of this type of weapon, but this does not mean at all that they relied only on persuasion, especially since the good was then e adopted in service, and not just on paper.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. vvvvv
        vvvvv 9 June 2015 05: 35 New
        +1
        "BZHRK can only move along a piece of iron and cannot" jump "from it with all the desire" - this can be used ... For example, recently it seems the Yars were transported on pontoons across the river. This means that they can go along the river ... Or it can be done on a barge ... And the tracks are restored in real time, i.e. I'm talking about the speed of laying branch tracks, which are still in abundance. Probably, there may be false empty imitation cars. And what is the speed of unpaved Yars and the possible speed on the railway ?!
        In other words, in any case, it turns out as an additional cartridge in the drum for those who decide to play "Russian roulette" with Russia ... It's one thing to be skeptical, and it's another to put such a real barrel with "increased chances" to your head smile
      5. ua1osm
        ua1osm 16 June 2016 13: 04 New
        0
        The ability to fully mask FFA is 100% real. It consists of two tasks:
        1. Disguise for external surveillance equipment surrounding the train (ordinary people, Russian Railways employees, enemy agents at stations and along the route). This is easily achieved by camouflaging the specified composition for prefab trains. A view that copies the exact view of the re-section, plus gondola cars attached to the re-section with wood, coal, a pair of tanks, a pair of passenger cars. The most common group train, which thousands. More complicated with locomotives, as the most unmasking element. We need special locomotives.

        2. Disguise for enemy reconnaissance satellites. If the wagons exactly to the smallest detail repeat the type of refection from above, they cannot be detected. With locomotives again problems. They should be special, but at the same time disguised as regular series used in these areas. Their number is very limited. And this is where the weak spot is.
        3. Short trains must travel at night, for their combat sludge to build indoor warehouses at small stations, so that the fact of the presence of such a train in the sediment could not be detected from the satellite. The warehouse must have a retractable roof for quick launch missiles.
        4. With regard to the secrecy of automotive missile systems of the Strategic Missile Forces of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, this is just the situation. If the FMS runs within a radius of 1500 km, then the truck tractors of the missile division, as a rule, ply and defend in one specific area, well known to enemy intelligence, within a radius of 100-200 km. Their stopping places are easily detected by good concrete tracks in the areas of deployment. Therefore, the task of destroying such complexes by the enemy is reduced to tracking them immediately before or after the decision to launch a missile attack. In 15-20 minutes, the complexes will not be able to go far from their parking lot and disperse.
    5. Juborg
      Juborg 8 June 2015 19: 33 New
      0
      Someone Mishka will say hello to the kebab maker in the form of a brick on his head, finally. Not that in the whole country there was no "polite brick" for him.
  2. abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 8 June 2015 07: 32 New
    +1
    Great. All that was needed was to say before the start of combat duty that development was proceeding in accordance with old, longer-term plans.
  3. denvar555
    denvar555 8 June 2015 07: 33 New
    +1
    The above scheme almost completely repeats the BZHRK "Molodets". In fact, the issue of disguise needs to be further worked out, tk. Now on the network you will not see such a volume of combined freight and passenger trains with both types of wagons. Yes, the number of referees does not go as much as in the 70-80s. It would be optimal to disguise the train as a regular passenger train. Moreover, modern passenger locomotives provide sufficient power and traction, and there is no need to fence a garden of three M62 diesel locomotives.
    1. Moore
      Moore 8 June 2015 11: 30 New
      +2
      Ordinary passenger trains with three diesel locomotives (electric locomotives are not possible by definition in the BZHRK) do not ride, but sectionalists quite meet themselves ..
      You won’t reduce the number of locomotives - you still have to pull up the launch sections on the PBSP. Motor cars are also excluded (yeah, such a train of three thermal cars rolls by itself, scaring others).
      Like any weapon, this complex will have weaknesses and strengths. There is nothing to be done about it.
      But I can't understand the reason for carrying YARS instead of the dry Bulava (uh-huh, it's just that a dirt battalion is rolling around the country with 9 BB instead of 30 and the colonel - the regiment commander is in charge of this). Either there will be more trains (three per regiment), or it is not clear at all.
  4. NEXUS
    NEXUS 8 June 2015 07: 47 New
    +3
    Barguzins are needed more than ever now. Their ability to dissolve in the vastness of the country is sobering up many hotheads in Washington very well. I would like to get this complex now, but if everything is going as planned, we will get it in 18 year.
  5. Alex_59
    Alex_59 8 June 2015 08: 25 New
    +5
    One thing only makes me sad. Gouged nafig all the infrastructure based. As always with us. They removed the RT-23 from service, abandoned all basing points, and plundered almost all.
  6. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 8 June 2015 08: 42 New
    +2
    So, by 2020, one of the divisions of the Strategic Missile Forces should receive up to five regiments armed with Barguzin complexes
    I almost fell off the chair ...! well, if true ... but we'll see. yes
  7. kursk87
    kursk87 8 June 2015 09: 12 New
    0
    Russia must do everything to ensure its own security. This complex will strengthen the position of Russia as a global nuclear power, the Western aggressors have something to think about.
  8. Padla
    Padla 8 June 2015 09: 50 New
    0
    But what excites me will be the protection of such trains?
    1. torp
      torp 8 June 2015 10: 00 New
      +1
      Very reliable! wassat
      1. Padla
        Padla 8 June 2015 10: 24 New
        +1
        exhaustive answer good
  9. russmensch
    russmensch 8 June 2015 10: 05 New
    -3
    "... According to him, the" rocket train "of the new model will have the minimum possible differences from conventional trains."
    I was once taught not only to watch, but also to think. Let's look at the proposed composition of the BZHRK:
    1. 3 locomotive - cling to the transportation of heavy loads.
    2. 1 tank,
    3 staff car (in the form of "teplushka" or compartment car?)
    4. The 3 wagon with PU is clearly disguised as refrigerated.
    And it's all. Where else can you see the composition of 3 diesel locomotives with 5 cars? What an idiot you have to not pay attention to. But it will be tracked by all possible sources.
    1. Throw
      Throw 8 June 2015 10: 22 New
      +2
      Not taught.

      new BZHRK will not be different from ordinary rail compositions.
    2. Ruslan
      Ruslan 8 June 2015 11: 06 New
      +2
      3 diesel locomotives, 7 barracks wagons, 3 pu, 1 tank. written in the picture. but in quantity and composition, it is indeed noticeable. even 11 cars are fawn.
      I like the air start, with transporters.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 8 June 2015 12: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: ruslan
        3 locomotive, 7 barracks, 3 PU, 1 tank

        ... it was with RK "Molodets"
        It will be completely different!
        And most likely diverse in picking.
        Let's say in the form of freight cars and not refrigerators.
        1. Ruslan
          Ruslan 9 June 2015 10: 26 New
          0
          Well damn it :) look at the pictures in the text, I list from there. the question is not in the type of wagons, but in their quantity. I regularly see trains, something like this happens: 2 diesel locomotives, about 60-65 tanks or trucks, or 2 diesel locomotives and 20-25 passenger cars + sometimes several refrigerators, postal or cargo. and here it’s important 3 locomotives and only 10 cars, no matter what. that’s what they’ll look for. it turns out it is necessary either to increase the composition twice as much, or introduce uniformity, so that for example all passengers are, or other methods. I really don’t know how much the capabilities of space reconnaissance allow us to see such a composition. but again, I like the air start more, that's where the FIGs are tracked, IL-76 flies to itself, and in the abdomen, a five-headed fool :)
    3. Penetrator
      Penetrator 8 June 2015 11: 07 New
      +1
      Where else can you see the composition of 3 diesel locomotives with 5 cars? What an idiot you have to not pay attention to.

      You have to be an idiot to write this. You still imagine armored tires with a machine gun in front of the lineup, yeah. People who are no more stupid than you are developing methods and methods of camouflage and combat use of the BZHRK.
    4. Captain45
      Captain45 8 June 2015 13: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: russmensch
      I was once taught not only to watch, but also to think. Let's look at the proposed composition of the BZHRK:
      1. 3 locomotive - cling to the transportation of heavy loads.
      2. 1 tank,
      3 staff car (in the form of "teplushka" or compartment car?)
      4. The 3 wagon with PU is clearly disguised as refrigerated.
      And it's all. Where else can you see the composition of 3 diesel locomotives with 5 cars? What an idiot you have to not pay attention to. But it will be tracked by all possible sources.

      Tell me please, here the BZHRK "Molodets" probably stood on the DB for about 15 years (if you correct the knowledgeable ones), during this time you personally or your acquaintances, relatives, how many times have you seen him live on the railway tracks, heard something about him ? Or you, excuse me, according to your definition, ....? I, at the time when the BZHRK carried the database, worked in the transport police at the junction railway station and not only did not see it, but I didn’t know about its passage either And the station at the junction of Europe and Asia and the way to Siberia and Central Asia. So do not worry about secrecy. And we can and can, when necessary lol
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 8 June 2015 15: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Captain45
        Tell me please, here the BZHRK "Molodets" probably stood on the DB for about 15 years (if you correct the knowledgeable ones), during this time you personally or your acquaintances, relatives, how many times have you seen him live on the railway tracks, heard something about him ?

        Why see him live? The paradox is that the visual indistinguishability of the BZHRK from conventional compounds does not play any role in its detection - the BZHRK is firing in the traffic control system on the railway.
        No need to crawl with the camera along the tracks, no need to dig in stumps with dosimeters. Just access to civil ACS. Because without entering data on the composition into the ACS, no one will simply release a "flying Dutchman" onto the highway.
        1. Throw
          Throw 9 June 2015 00: 52 New
          +2
          Do you seriously think that data such as "abc / 345 rocket train" will be entered into the automated control system (train traffic) ??

          They attach more refs to him on the sorting hill, seals on paper - slap, and he will take the "fish" from Vladik to Novgorod, and back "meat". And about the question of "blurring five cars" - tell the customs on the railway, they parzhut and "lose" the entire train! laughing
          1. Pathfinder_II
            Pathfinder_II 12 June 2015 13: 12 New
            0
            at the same time and extra work for the crew. laughing
  10. VSkilled
    VSkilled 8 June 2015 10: 30 New
    +5
    "The one who hinders us will help us." © (film "Prisoner of the Caucasus")

    “In any pig you can always find a piece of ham.” © (German folklore)

    Are there any unmasking signs? - "Yes, and - the dog is with them!" ©

    So you can rivet a bunch of false trains. Three locomotives? Easy! Two of them are decommissioned (the train is false, therefore - not loaded, therefore, for traction - one serviceable is enough). It is clear that all three locomotives should be visible from space as "hot", but this modification is simple and inexpensive.

    And, then, it is not necessary to make an entirely "rocket" train. The required number of cars - clings to any other "purely civilian" train.

    And what kind of carriages there are attached - with or without missiles, even if - the CIA has "hemorrhoids progressing."
  11. Urri
    Urri 8 June 2015 10: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Alex_59
    One thing only makes me sad. Gouged nafig all the infrastructure based.


    This is true. Only in its existing form did this infrastructure unmask more than anything else.
    Tender Navaja. under new conditions and performance characteristics of the complex.
    1. Throw
      Throw 8 June 2015 11: 52 New
      0
      Unmasked because our politicians agreed on a schedule! BZHRK movement with pinosy.
  12. Engineer
    Engineer 8 June 2015 12: 24 New
    +1
    Yes, but only the RT-23 UTTH threw 10 km per 4 tons, and this one was 3,5 times smaller, because it boasts that the rocket is lighter and less worth it - its effectiveness is less. As Mace seriously loses to Sineve, so Barguzin already at the design stage loses to Molodets. The sad trend. But I’m glad that the complex will in principle be so, since Molodets was very nervous about the States, because they made every effort to get rid of it.
    1. litus
      litus 8 June 2015 14: 41 New
      +2
      firstly, it is incorrect to compare solid rockets with liquid rockets. Sinev was absolutely out of place mentioned.
      Secondly, comparing the performance characteristics of missiles alone is also incorrect. For starters, read about the cost and operating features of Molodtsov (there were only thousands of kilometers of roads built and strengthened for them), and then remember the performance characteristics of the missiles.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 June 2015 00: 08 New
      +3
      Quote: Engineer
      As Mace seriously loses to Sineve, so Barguzin already at the design stage loses to Molodets.

      How is it, your mother, you command me to understand !? (with)
      It turns out that instead of "repeating" a successful combination (technical solution), the research institutes and design bureaus "sawed" folk remedies and "snatch" the Strategic Missile Forces in advance a losing version of the BZHRK?
      Maybe something is wrong in your reasoning? Maybe the accuracy has increased significantly (KVO: 500 / 100m), so can you reduce the power of the BB? And the increased energy allows you to change the trajectory to a quasi-ballistic?
      Therefore, one cannot indiscriminately blame the designers of rocketry for regression. Ugly somehow, "you know," it turns out.
      1. opus
        opus 9 June 2015 01: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        And the increased energy allows you to change the trajectory to a quasi-ballistic?

        uh ...
        Well, the energy then the turbojet engine is worse than the LRE by 30% is the minimum
        (TTRD allows you to realize fantastic traction, since KS TTRD is the essence of the whole rocket: increase the combustion area and do not worry about mixture formation)

        a quasibalistic trajectory was implemented on Trident2 (technically), the Americans abandoned it: the overheating is large, the fluctuations of the trajectory are significant.
        Institute of heat engineering probably solved the problem
    3. opus
      opus 9 June 2015 01: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Engineer
      As Mace seriously loses to Sineve, so Barguzin already at the design stage loses to Molodets.

      Quo are completely different, this is a joke.
      Time does not stand still, there was GLONAS, a correction remote control microd, modern digital control systems, and so on
  13. Alex_59
    Alex_59 8 June 2015 13: 49 New
    +1
    Quote: Urri
    Quote: Alex_59
    One thing only makes me sad. Gouged nafig all the infrastructure based.


    This is true. Only in its existing form did this infrastructure unmask more than anything else.
    Tender Navaja. under new conditions and performance characteristics of the complex.
    Well, what does it mean unmasked? I'll tell you a secret, my cottage is located 2 kilometers from this very looted infrastructure. Access roads from the mountain are visible without binoculars. And you know - in any way she, this infrastructure did not unmask. Of course, everyone knew and knows that there’s no need to go to those forests to pick mushrooms, there are military men and barbed wire. But what exactly is there - no one knew until the diggers started climbing on the not-so-guarded object several years ago. And then with caution, because in general the military is still present and can catch. If you are talking about satellite images, then everyone already knows that there is a base there. And everyone knows about Topol where each base is. And here’s where the rockets are — you’ll figure it out already. This is not tracked in any way.
    1. Dema46
      Dema46 8 June 2015 21: 47 New
      0
      Well, it’s good to whistle that no one knew anything. All Perm knew and knew about bershets. And at the beginning of 80x many knew about rockets and about the type of rockets. Kiushniki said a lot.
  14. Zionist33
    Zionist33 8 June 2015 20: 31 New
    -1
    Suddenly, Israel Turns into Hamas Best Friend

    Posted on June 8, 2015 | 19 Comments


    The following is a translation of an article by military analyst of the walla portal Avi Issakharov.

    Israel’s reaction to the Saturday shelling of Ashkelon represents Jerusalem’s new Hamas policy - indulgence and relief instead of military confrontation. On the one hand, a bombing was carried out on empty buildings, on the other, a series of statements were made by representatives of the army and security services defending and justifying Hamas.

    A senior security official said: “The goal of the latest rocket launches from Gaza is to light the fire of war between Israel and Hamas. The Salafists hope that Israel will attack Hamas and do the work for them. ”

    Another management spokesman explains to the Israeli public that only ISIS will benefit Hamas. He concludes that restraint is necessary. Hamas is good for Jews.

    A similar change in Israel’s perception of Hamas is amazing. Hamas is no longer an enemy, no longer an organization calling for the destruction of Israel, but a partner in peacekeeping, and in the future, perhaps something more. From the point of view of the military and the government in Jerusalem, Hamas’s control of Gaza is in Israel’s interests and therefore should not support actions aimed at overthrowing Hamas. If we recall that in the past elections, Hamas was painted as the main enemy, then we can only marvel at the 180-degree turn made by the military-political echelon.

    Today, Israel is one of the few players working to maintain Hamas in Gaza. Moreover, in this matter he collaborates with the main sponsors of the Muslim Brotherhood - Qatar and Turkey. This is absurd if you recall that when Secretary of State John Kerry tried to end the war in Gaza through Ankara and Doha last summer, Israeli politicians accused him of amateurism and misunderstanding of local realities.

    At the same time, relations with Egypt, the most important ally of Israel in the region, should be taken into account. Much has been written about the “honeymoon” between Jerusalem and Cairo. And now we can only guess what Egypt thinks about the Israeli method of action. First, Israel refuses to cooperate with Mahmoud Abbas - despite Cairo's urgent requests. Secondly, Israel speaks with Hamas - through intermediaries - Turkey and Qatar, and these intermediaries are the creators and sponsors of the Muslim Brotherhood, the worst enemies of Cairo.

    An example of what is happening is the visit of the Turkish Minister for Religious Affairs, Mehmet Gormez. The minister was allowed to visit Gaza. After that, he climbed the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, where he was honored as a hero. When, later, the Chief Shariah judge of Jordan, Ahmed Khalil, visited the Temple Mount, he was thrown stones and slippers ..

    In this regard, the question arises - how justified is Israel’s bet on the Muslim Brotherhood? Is the theory that ISIS is the only alternative to Hamas in Gaza justified? Perhaps it is worth exploring the potential of Fatah and Abbas in more detail?
  15. TOR2
    TOR2 8 June 2015 21: 55 New
    +2
    Quote: gregor6549
    a complex of methods and technical means has long been developed that make it possible not only to detect BZHRK in endless expanses but also to identify each of the detected BZHRK by its individual "portrait"

    This is a competition of armor and shell. Suppose you have collected an acoustic (and not only acoustic) portrait of the BZHRK. Shuffle locomotives and wagons from several trains, and the portrait is already different. In general, it is not necessary to create a separate BZHRK, but a whole range of weapons based on it. For example, exactly the same train only armed with air defense systems. In the event of an aggravation of the situation, such a pseudo-BZHRK could cover vital objects. Given that on the railway platform automatic delivery of missiles to launchers is possible, this thing can easily be argued with flying axes.
    I think a lot of people watched "electronic wars", and many were impressed by the helicopter with the clever stuffing. Now imagine about the same on the railway platform smile Here, energy sources are more powerful and there are no such restrictions on the mass. Perhaps such a "dome" system will deploy much more powerful. And if there are several such pseudo-BZHRK around the protected object?
  16. akudr48
    akudr48 8 June 2015 22: 07 New
    0
    I believe that in case of successful development, the head of all railways Yakunin can stand on the way of introducing and putting on combat duty trains of the BZHRK, and cancel these BZHRK to hell, as he canceled the commuter trains!
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. Redfox3k
    Redfox3k 9 June 2015 00: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Why see him live? The paradox is that the visual indistinguishability of the BZHRK from conventional compounds does not play any role in its detection - the BZHRK is firing in the traffic control system on the railway.
    No need to crawl with the camera along the tracks, no need to dig in stumps with dosimeters. Just access to civil ACS. Because without entering data on the composition into the ACS, no one will simply release a "flying Dutchman" onto the highway.

    I do not think that anyone will give the civilian ACS information about the "composition". It will be like a refrigerated freight train, of which there are countless numbers throughout the Russian railway

    Quote: Padla
    But what excites me will be the protection of such trains?

    The Bears. There are many of them in the taiga. And let the bourgeois piss with boiling water and wake up in a cold sweat from the mere thought of teasing a Russian bear. And let them know that if something happens, not one "accidentally surviving" shark-3 "will fire a salvo, but at least a thousand missiles from 3-10 BB to 500 kt. Then, for sure," the whole world is in dust. "
  19. Alex_59
    Alex_59 9 June 2015 07: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Dema46
    Well, it’s good to whistle that no one knew anything. All Perm knew and knew about bershets. And at the beginning of 80x many knew about rockets and about the type of rockets. Kiushniki said a lot.

    What the whistle ... Oh, about the type of missiles, they didn’t really know. I at least did not know.
  20. xomaNN
    xomaNN 10 June 2015 10: 17 New
    0
    The new BZHRK is a good example when the methodology and technology of such a weapon has already been worked out on the Molodets product. This saves developers and manufacturers both time and money. Good luck!
  21. AAV
    AAV 10 June 2015 16: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Sniper 74
    Considering that the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering began developing this complex in 2012, and completed preliminary design only in 2015 (in other words, for three years it only drew an image of the complex on a Whatman paper), adoption by the end of 2020 seems extremely vague.


    Try it yourself, "draw something on whatman paper" to make it work, at least on paper, and it will immediately become clear whether it is a lot of three years for the project of such a system or not enough.
    One of Murphy's Laws -16 Law of Taxonomy says: "A complex system, designed in a hurry, never works, and it is impossible to fix it to make it work."
  22. Old26
    Old26 10 June 2015 23: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: silver169
    BZHRK "Barguzin" is not just a necessary, but an extremely necessary complex that must be adopted as soon as possible by Russia. Judging by what is stated in the article, the complex can simply dissolve in the endless Russian expanses. This is precisely what the enemies of Russia feared and are afraid of, it was not for nothing that they insisted so much on the destruction of the previous BZHRK "Molodets". If only to be in time ...

    The question of necessity is quite controversial. Both the military and the same designer do not come to a consensus. The deployment of one division, and this is how they say 5 regiments (compositions) of 6 PU in each - is quite an expensive pleasure. A small series has always been expensive. We'll have to create everything from scratch. PPD, PBSP. In addition, to dissolve in the vast expanses is now quite difficult. In the days of the USSR, when they planned to deploy 7 divisions (deployed 3), which were scattered from Kostroma in the west to Krasnoyarsk in the east, it was quite real. Over the years, technology has advanced. Both ours and the adversary. I am afraid that such a composition will have enough unmasking signs. Tracking it will be difficult, but possible.
    In this regard, it is still preferable to PGRK. They are still not tied to the road as much as BZHRK. It is also not clear how the question of "breeding" divisions will be resolved. Three diesel locomotives contributed to this at Molodets. And how it will be on the "Barguzin" - it is not yet clear
  23. landromat
    landromat 11 June 2015 00: 54 New
    0
    But are we so rich that it would contain Tu-160 and submarines and poplars / yars with mobile and mine pu and a heavy missile, perhaps, and now the BZHR. Can optimally concentrate the budget on a couple of types of media maximum and not spray in the spirit of just a little bit? How economically justified is such a strategy for developing strategic forces?
  24. Old26
    Old26 11 June 2015 09: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: landromat
    It can optimally concentrate the budget on a couple of types of media maximum and not be sprayed in the spirit of just a little bit

    So there are not very many types and it turns out (from new ones). "Topol-M" and "Yars" - in the gland is almost the same (the difference in MS). It is not excluded that Avangard / Rubezh is also based on developments in Yars and Bulava. What is Yars-M is not yet clear. RC "Barguzin" - also on the same groundwork with a fairly large degree of unification. "Sarmat" will stand apart. In principle, it turns out that the Strategic Missile Forces will have a couple of three types, and solid fuel with a high degree of unification. Although the need for BZHRK is questionable. Especially with such a small amount