Military Review

The first buyer of C-400 "Triumph" was China

49
The Chinese authorities signed a contract with the Russian Federation in September 2014 for the purchase of X-NUMX-x C-4 Triumf anti-aircraft missile systems (ZRS) divisions, Anatoly Isaikin, general director of Rosoboronexport, told reporters in mid-April 400. However, he did not disclose the details of the contract, noting only that China really became the first buyer of this latest domestic air defense system. According to Isaikin, the conclusion of this contract should emphasize the strategic level of relations between Russia and China.


Anatoly Isaikin stressed that today many countries would like to buy C-400. However, the Russian industry in the face of the EKR Almaz-Antey primarily works with the order of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the complexes are actively coming into service with the Russian army. According to the head of Rosoboronexport, even with the expansion of existing production capacity, it will be difficult for several States to transfer the C-400 Triumph to them at once. In this regard, China became the first sign, he stressed.

The amount Beijing will pay for the supply of 4's C-400 divisions has not been disclosed. But now we can confidently assume that we can talk about at least two billion dollars. According to the calculations of the American portal Strategy Page, one division of Triumphs in the overseas market will cost 500 millions of dollars to buyers. This is assuming that each package includes 8 launchers, a command vehicle, a radar station and a launcher.



It is worth noting that in recent years, China has quite strongly reduced military arms exports from Russia, they have learned a lot to do on their own. But in the field of air defense systems, the Chinese continued to rely on Russian-made military equipment. The last major contract with China for the supply of air defense systems was completed in 2010, when the transfer of the PRC 15 to the C-300 PMU PMU-2 air defense systems division was completed, as well as the four 83М6Х2 control systems. The air defense systems transferred to China were included in the air defense systems of Beijing, Shanghai and some other cities in the Middle Kingdom.

At the same time, China wanted to purchase the Triumph C-400, when this complex just got on the conveyor in Russia. Negotiations with Rosoboronexport began in 2012 year. And, judging by the information available in the public domain, the speech was originally conducted about the delivery of X-NUMX divisions to C-6 to China. But even then the negotiations on the supply were very difficult. First, the Chinese were not satisfied that Russia was not ready to begin the delivery of complexes earlier than 400 of the year. The primary task was to equip the Russian army with a new air defense system, and even hastily opened plants in St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod and Kirov did not seem to be allowed to begin deliveries to China earlier. Secondly, in Moscow, reasonably and for a long time, they feared that the Chinese partners needed the newest C-2020 air defense system not so much to urgently strengthen the defense of their own airspace, as for a banal engineering design study and subsequent copying of the Russian weapons. In order to then issue the received copy of the product of the Chinese military industrial complex and start dumping trade in the international arena. It is worth noting that China has done so many times.

Problems with possible copying of C-400 China

According to Simon Weseman, an expert on armaments and military expenditures of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the Russian government is aware of the fact that Beijing is likely to copy the technologies used in C-400. This has already happened with the C-300 air defense system, as well as other types of military equipment from Russia, which have been supplied to the PRC over the past two decades, the expert noted. “It is believed that the issue of copying technology was one of the most difficult in the conclusion of agreements between the two countries. However, for Russia today it is of less importance than the political and economic advantages of the C-400 sale to Beijing, ”notes Simon Wesemann.



At one time, the Russian C-300, which Russia began to export in the middle of the 1990, became the first modern air defense system in service with the Chinese army. Using the technology of the Russian complex in China, its own long-range air defense system was later created, designated HQ-9 “Red Flag”. “At that moment, it seemed that Beijing had enough strength to create more advanced air defense systems based on the technologies obtained. However, interest in acquiring C-400 signals that China is not yet in a position to do so and, at least in the short term, will be dependent on foreign technologies, in this case Russian, ”notes Wezeman.

It is worth noting that in recent decades, the PRC has presented Russia with many examples of arms copying. For example, the new Chinese BMP ZBD04 is very similar to the Russian BMP-3. The Chinese MLRS PHL-03 exactly resembles the Russian MLRS Smerch. A fighter J-11 outwardly not even distinguish from the domestic Su-27SK. The same can be said about the deck fighter J-15 very much resembling our Su-33. The list goes on and on. What this copying can lead to, 2013 showed the year when Russia lost the tender for the supply of 12 long-range air defense missile systems, announced by the Turkish Defense Industry Secretariat. The total amount of the transaction was 4 billion dollars. The amount that is significant for any state in the world. For this reason, the United States submitted its Patriot PAC-3 to the competition, Russia C-300, Europeans SAMP / T Aster 30, and China HQ-9. The latter, which, in fact, is an unlicensed copy of the Russian C-300PMU-1, was able to win the Turkish competition, although it is inferior in terms of the characteristics of the Russian counterpart. The lowest price said its word; it became a decisive factor for Ankara. In addition, China proposed to localize 10% of the production of complexes in Turkey itself, and a large arms contract sailed to Beijing.

It is clear that with the C-400 “Triumph”, which so far has no analogues in the world, Russia reasonably pin special hopes on the international market for long-range air defense systems. Albeit after the 2020 year, when the Russian system will be saturated with Russian parts, and production facilities will be released for production for export. At that moment, it would be very sad to know that something similar, offered by China, will turn out to be on this virtual counter. As practice has shown, it seems useless to fight against Chinese piracy in the legal field.

Infographics RIA News


At least, all previous attempts by Russia to call on the Chinese for at least some order were not crowned with success. The fact of the matter is that the eastern trick on the part of Chinese engineers is that when copying, they necessarily add to the original product, some of their own refinements and improvements. After that, referring to the completed revision, they declare a copy of their “know-how”. Why did Moscow, knowing this very well, nevertheless decided to make a deal? There are two answers to this question. The first one lies on the surface. Russia, which currently lives in a strict regime of international sanctions, needs an inflow of currency. In the current crisis, throwing two billion dollars is not worth it. But this reason is not the main one. The main thing, according to Sergei Ishchenko from Free Press, is not in finance, but in politics.

At one time, the deal with the Mistrals also became political. The then French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, spoke in favor of a conciliatory stance in Russia's transient armed conflict with Georgia in August 2008. At that moment, Sarkozy helped Moscow out of the situation with the least reputational, financial and political losses for her. In turn, Russia could help the French president by loading the French military industrial complex with a solid order. At least, this version of the development of events seems convincing, given the fact that since then neither the political nor the Russian military leadership has given any intelligible comments on why Russia needed these landing ships.

Returning to the PRC, it can be noted that the political leadership in Beijing from the very beginning rejected the very idea of ​​the political and economic isolation of Moscow in connection with the tragic events that unfolded in Ukraine. Even on the situation with the return of the Crimean Peninsula, China expressed itself quite openly and with straightforwardness unusual for Chinese politicians. The director of the Department of Europe and Central Asia at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, Gui Tsunyun, said: “China is opposed to any nation gaining independence through a referendum. If we talk about the Crimea, then there are some peculiarities. We know very well history accessories of the Crimea ".

Infographics RIA News


This was followed by a statement by Zhou Li, deputy head of the CPC Central Committee Department for International Relations, who noted: “Russia and the PRC are facing various challenges today. However, I can say with confidence that in the near future we will face even more challenges. We must jointly fight to protect the interests of our states. The main thing is not to drive a wedge between our states, which the Americans would very much like to do. ” Under current conditions, such support at the international level is expensive. Perhaps you can risk even the C-400 Triumph. In the end, Russia is on the way and there is a more promising complex - the powerful anti-missile missile system C-500 "Prometheus".

C-400 will cover priority facilities in China

According to Simon Weseman, first of all, the C-400 complexes acquired from Russia will be located at priority facilities in the PRC, which include the country's key military and administrative centers, which are currently protected by the Russian C-300 and Chinese HQ -9. The C-400 is effective in repelling the attacks of cruise and operational-tactical missiles, which pose a major threat to such centers, the expert said.

“These complexes are guaranteed to destroy various targets - from enemy cruise missiles and ending with its strategic bombers, including those built using stealth technology,” said Igor Korotchenko, chief editor of National Defense magazine. “I believe that there are two main directions for using the C-400 Triumph: they will cover Beijing as the country's largest political center, as well as one of the coastal directions. China, acquiring C-400 complexes from Russia, makes good investments in ensuring its national security, ”said Igor Korotchenko. Earlier in the Chinese press, information appeared that new Russian air defense systems could be used to cover the country's airspace in potentially dangerous areas from Japan, Vietnam, South Korea and Taiwan.

Infographics RIA News


According to Vasily Kashin, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Russia), China will be supplied not with the basic configuration for the Russian army, but with “heavy” missiles with a range of up to 400 km. These missiles will allow China to shoot down air targets over the East China Sea. “These missiles will allow air targets in the space of the Diaoyu Islands to hit from the mainland of China,” explained Vasily Kashin.

In turn, Simon Weseman believes that the increased range of missiles of the C-400 complex will allow China to cover the Taiwan Strait and part of the airspace above the island itself. "Thus, China will gain an advantage in possible armed conflicts in the Taiwan region, as well as in the water area of ​​the South China and East China seas," said Wezeman. According to a foreign military expert, such a ZRS in the hands of China is able to change the balance of forces in the region, although such a change will not be dramatic.

Simon Wesemann believes that other countries in the region will try to find opportunities to neutralize the advantages of C-400, just as they did it earlier after Beijing bought modern weapons systems. For example, with the help of long-range missiles with the anti-radar system, electronic warfare devices and the latest aircraft made using stealth technology.



The C-400 complex in service with the Russian army

The C-400 anti-aircraft missile system was created by the Russian air defense concern Almaz-Antey on the basis of their other long-range air defense complex, the C-300. One of the main foreign buyers of the previous complex was also China. In total, the People’s Liberation Army of China acquired the C-15 300 divisions, the contract was completed in the 2010 year. Now in Beijing they decided to rely on Russian weapons, now on C-400.

It is worth noting that at present, the saturation of this complex of the Russian armed forces is in full swing. The last regiment, equipped with a C-400 ZRS, was deployed in Kamchatka. In April, the 2015 of the year arrived at the port of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky by maritime transport with 40 units of equipment from the regimental set of this air defense system. The complexes will be deployed at duty positions near the cities of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and Vilyuchinsk. They must change the C-300 air defense systems on combat duty.

Modern air defense system C-400 is really unique. It can confidently hit not only enemy aircraft, but also cruise and operational-tactical missiles at a distance of up to several hundred kilometers. During the C-400 tests at the Ashuluk and Kapustin Yar test site, the complex’s calculations succeeded in knocking down a target with a speed of 2800 m / s, while the other missile hit a target at an altitude of 56 km.



The C-400 complex allows you to simultaneously fire up to 36 air targets, directing up to 72 missiles at them. In the west, the complex received the designation SA-21 Growler ("Growler"). With this means of defense can be used a wide range of missiles, including from the previous complexes. Three of them - the 48Н6Е, 48Н6Х2 and 48Н6Х3 - are suitable for combat firing with both C-400 and C-300М version. Especially for C-400 "Typhoon" was created 48H6DM rocket. These missiles are controlled on the principle of semi-active radar homing with correction. Also, the Russian industry is preparing to release two more missiles - 9М96Е and 9М96Е2, which will use the method of active radar homing on the target.

The use of various types of anti-aircraft missiles allows you to create a layered air defense system using the C-400. At the same time, the Triumph system is ready to simultaneously solve the tasks of both anti-aircraft and non-strategic missile defense. And the automation equipment used in this AAMS almost completely eliminates errors caused by the so-called human factor.

On December 2014, the 9 regiments (19 divisions) of the C-400 complexes were deployed in Russia. One regiment is deployed in a three-division structure. The plans for 2015 the year before was called the placement of the ZRMS C-400 Triumph near Novosibirsk (summer 2015 of the year), as well as on the Novaya Zemlya archipelago. The Russian Defense Ministry expects to receive 2020 C-56 battalions before the 400 of the year, while X-NUMX of the C-4 regiment should be allocated for the defense of Moscow. Each deployed division consists of 400 launchers.

Currently 9 regiments / 19 divisions / 152 PU are deployed:

2 division in Elektrostal (first in 2007, second in 2009), Moscow region.
2 Division in Dmitrov (the regiment deployed in 2011 year), near Moscow.
2 Division in Zvenigorod (the regiment deployed in 2012 year), near Moscow.
2 Division in Nakhodka (the regiment deployed in 2012 year).
2 division in the Kaliningrad region (the regiment deployed in 2013 year)
2 division in Novorossiysk (the regiment deployed in 2013 year).
2 division in Podolsk (the regiment deployed in 2014 year), 4-th regiment in the suburbs.
2 Division on the Kola Peninsula (the regiment deployed in 2014-2015 years).
3 Division in Kamchatka (the regiment deployed in 2014-2015 years).

Information sources:
http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/118647
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/13/s400
http://ria.ru/world/20150413/1058317195.html
http://www.rg.ru/2015/04/13/triumf-site.html
Author:
49 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. saag
    saag April 16 2015 06: 39 New
    13
    Well, now it remains to wait for the appearance of the Chinese "having no analogue in the world" of a new air defense system :-) and it will cost half the price
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock April 16 2015 08: 27 New
      0
      Quote: saag
      Well, now it remains to wait for the appearance of the Chinese "having no analogue in the world" of a new air defense system :-) and it will cost half the price

      It is interesting to read about the generation of anti-aircraft systems. The first time I read about the S-400, that this is a 4 + generation ...
      1. Talgat
        Talgat April 16 2015 19: 46 New
        12
        I am also not enthusiastic about supplies to China, because we have a fairly widespread "China phobia" - quite understandable - look at our gigantic territory and the wealth of subsoil and fields and remember that the population barely exceeded 17 million (the closest allies have the same thing - the gigantic territory of Russia and 146 or 147 million in total, there are about 6 million Kirgiz - the rest are even less - let's not say all of us against China)

        But on the other hand, I’m sure that such decisions are made for a reason - perhaps you and I don’t know what our leaders know

        Perhaps China really needs to urgently cover large cities and centers with something reliable (and apart from the Russian S-400, there seems to be nothing) - perhaps the "world government" has some kind of spring schizoid aggravation - who knows - these people consider themselves the rulers of the world and chosen by God - but proved their complete insanity - you don't know what to expect from them - it's like psychos with a nuclear and high-tech baton - and if they don't put China under control now - then time against them - in 10 years China will actually become their enemy number 1 - how The USSR at one time

        Compared to them, China is a much lesser evil, and without China, we must admit that we, too, cannot handle these abnormal
        1. oldkap22
          oldkap22 April 17 2015 12: 59 New
          +2
          I would like to believe (hope) for "some bookmarks" in the software ...
          1. wk
            wk April 17 2015 13: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: oldkap22
            I would like to believe (hope) for "some bookmarks" in the software ...

            do not consider the Chinese and their programmers as idiots .... Russia will answer for such bookmarks in full .... not happy with the Chinese, but throwing them at this stage of Russia oh, how much it will cost!
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. wk
          wk April 17 2015 13: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: Talgat
          But on the other hand, I’m sure that such decisions are made for a reason - perhaps you and I don’t know what our leaders know

          just under the conditions of sanctions, China mercilessly bargains with Russia, which replaces the West with loans and technologies that we don’t have ... and asks in return for what they don’t have .... it’s clear why the Chinese should copy this contract .... and if possible even surpassing the C400 ... but Russia’s hands are twisted, we need technologies for which we even lagged behind China for a long time .... and Russia has no allies and there aren’t .... there are travel companions, it seems Lenin said if I'm not mistaken.
        3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. April 16 2015 09: 05 New
      +4
      Quote: saag
      Well, now it remains to wait for the appearance of the "no analogue in the world"
    3. koosss
      koosss April 16 2015 10: 32 New
      +2
      for sale is an export option
      1. Engrim
        Engrim April 16 2015 10: 53 New
        +5
        What do you mean by "export option"?

        The article, as in other open sources, states that the most complete S-400s will be delivered.

        "According to Vasily Kashin, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Russia), China will be supplied not with the basic configuration for the Russian army, but with “heavy” missiles with a range of up to 400 km. These missiles will allow China to shoot down air targets over the East China Sea. “These missiles will allow air targets in the space of the Diaoyu Islands to hit from the mainland of China,” explained Vasily Kashin."
        1. ilyaspb
          ilyaspb April 16 2015 11: 07 New
          +7
          The software for export options is written separately, that is, the software is not the same as in the Russian samples. I don’t know the details.
          1. Engrim
            Engrim April 16 2015 11: 31 New
            +1
            I think that the Chinese themselves will change the software in order to fully integrate the systems into a single air defense / missile defense system. Simply, I asked a question to clarify whether there are any reasons that the complexes will be transferred technically different from those used in our country.
            Well, talking about technical, not software "bookmarks", this is nonsense of course.
            1. ilyaspb
              ilyaspb April 16 2015 12: 10 New
              +1
              Will they change the software of guidance systems, classification of threats? Why are they then buying our weapons? Software is perhaps the most knowledge-based component of weapons.
              Well, talking about technical, not software "bookmarks", this is nonsense of course.

              May be. Or maybe it’s not just that the number of teeth on the rim of the drive wheel of the tanks is different for the external and internal market, but for reducing / increasing the resource.
        2. koosss
          koosss April 16 2015 16: 40 New
          +4
          I can’t describe exactly the export option, but I’m selling exactly the same one that is in the arsenal of my own country, to a state that, it’s not a secret, is copying everything and everything, at least it’s stupid
      2. Kathernik
        Kathernik April 19 2015 09: 10 New
        +1
        - ??????????
      3. Lenivets
        Lenivets April 27 2015 00: 42 New
        +4
        Well, at least one adequate commentary among the choir of uneducated hamsters! good
        In export options (ALWAYS), the characteristics are reduced (interference protection, algorithms .....).
        But couch patriot experts cannot understand this, they are all geniuses without exception! laughing
        And the hamsters answer simple questions: what should the development engineers eat in the absence of (or a small order from the Ministry of Defense), what kind of bucks to upgrade enterprises, existing weapons and develop new ones?
        Or do you think that the Russian budget is rubber?
    4. kaluganew
      kaluganew April 16 2015 11: 52 New
      +1
      having no analogues in the world

      schA prof wakes up, this spell on him like a red rag on a bull acts)
    5. Civil
      Civil April 16 2015 20: 35 New
      0
      And the next buyers will already take a Chinese copy ...
  2. Rigla
    Rigla April 16 2015 06: 43 New
    +8
    The Chinese of course ... $ 2 billion, and here you are, no decades of development or tens of billions of $ costs are needed. The beauty.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock April 16 2015 09: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: Rigla
      The Chinese of course ... $ 2 billion, and here you are, no decades of development or tens of billions of $ costs are needed. The beauty.

      Yesterday there was news that Greece wants to buy more missiles for the S-300.
  3. bolat19640303
    bolat19640303 April 16 2015 07: 08 New
    +9
    The issue has been resolved at the state level, so cry, do not cry, and the job is done. The question is not so much in the financial component, but in the political. There are many different opinions about who China is - a friend or an enemy. Most likely the third is neither a friend nor an enemy (perhaps for now). China needs Russia; Russia also needs China as a geopolitical ally and strategic partner.
  4. Russ_Dry
    Russ_Dry April 16 2015 07: 11 New
    +2
    this is called to win a penny, and lose to the rupee.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 16 2015 08: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: Russ_Dry
      this is called to win a penny, and lose to the rupee.

      I don’t think ... it’s called to arm your allies against a common danger. And as for copying ... the Chinese will not succeed, because it’s not enough to have the complex itself, we need technology.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn April 16 2015 09: 40 New
        +5
        Well, in general, yes, I don’t really understand what is the same for us, then it makes it difficult to do it, if everything is so simple. Or someone else besides the Chinese) Copy and go, the same cars
        1. ilyaspb
          ilyaspb April 16 2015 10: 31 New
          +2
          By copying the device without access to technologies of steels, lubricants, fuel, varnishes and much more, you get a functional analogue, but worse in terms of performance characteristics - less speed, load, acceptable temperatures and less durable.
          Chinese cars are in demand because they are cheap, we get the same fake, but at a cost comparable to the original - the cost of production is different.
          1. Nosgoth
            Nosgoth April 16 2015 15: 23 New
            0
            not the cost of production but the impudence of someone (2-3 times increases the cost)
            1. ilyaspb
              ilyaspb April 16 2015 17: 18 New
              +1
              You, too, will not work under the conditions on which the Chinese and even Koreans work in LG and Samsung. Even the conditions that they offer to foreign employees, trying to outbid brains, are not inspiring.
      2. Mikhaylych
        Mikhaylych April 16 2015 17: 24 New
        +4
        Do not hesitate, the level of development of science and industry in China is growing at an astonishing pace, in about fifteen years they will do what neither the Amers nor the Japanese have dreamed of. Having such a neighbor close by does not deceive oneself, as soon as China moves the states out of its geopolitical interests, it will deal with pressing problems, oil, gas, forest, etc. and he doesn’t want to buy them even at a reduced price, he wants to own it all. China seeks to dominate the world no less than the United States and, unlike the states, it is not overseas, but near at hand, in about fifty years, it will be an adversary with the most powerful army in the world, who has no friends.
        1. oldkap22
          oldkap22 April 17 2015 13: 15 New
          +1
          by this time, the average age of life. the craving for "convenience and comfort" among the Chinese will be equal to the European ones, and we will find other allies (these will be "members of the former European Union" Latin American countries. (or maybe some states of the former USA ...)
    2. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel April 17 2015 18: 33 New
      +3
      There are three types of enemy:
      1. your enemy;
      2. The enemy of your friend;
      3. The enemy of your enemy.
      China in this case belongs to the third type of enemies and it needs to be encouraged.
  5. yurikh
    yurikh April 16 2015 07: 35 New
    +3
    I disagree, of course, the Chinese will copy it, but what happens? They do our AK and what quality it is. Bagdosarov has repeatedly talked about Chinese weapons in Soloviev’s programs about their low quality.
    1. Malkor
      Malkor April 16 2015 08: 11 New
      +3
      You have to pay for everything and China’s loyalty too, there are no freebies.
      China knows about the sign - where there is the S-300 - there P.indosiya does not carry out democratization, does not introduce troops.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. April 16 2015 09: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: yurikh
      Of course, the Chinese will copy it, but what happens?
      For example, this.
      In Turkey, a long-lasting tender for the supply of medium and long-range anti-aircraft missile systems was completed. It was attended by the United States, the European Union and Russia. But unexpectedly, the Turkish government gave preference to the Chinese HQ-9 air defense system, which, according to experts, is a clone of the Russian S-300 complex
      1. Lenivets
        Lenivets April 27 2015 00: 59 New
        0
        It is an order of magnitude worse than the S-300 and Turkey will not receive their nifig. wink
        shtatovtsy will not allow.
    3. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn April 16 2015 09: 41 New
      +3
      As far as I know, aircraft engines they still buy from us
    4. bandabas
      bandabas April 16 2015 21: 49 New
      +1
      Then our oligarchs will sell them the S-500. They will copy it, but, taking into account previous developments, they will make their own, already with improved efficiency.
      1. Lenivets
        Lenivets April 27 2015 00: 57 New
        0
        Which of our air defense systems did they make with better efficiency?
        So far they have only done with much worse, but of course you know better. bully
  6. Nik_One
    Nik_One April 16 2015 07: 38 New
    +6
    But a long-range missile should not be sold at all ...
    1. Lenivets
      Lenivets April 27 2015 01: 01 New
      0
      But without it no one will buy for what for ?!
  7. fomkin
    fomkin April 16 2015 07: 53 New
    +2
    To the question of what our government is thinking and whether it is thinking at all:
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 16 2015 07: 55 New
      +8
      Quote: fomkin
      To the question of what our government is thinking and whether it is thinking at all:

      If you want, I’ll draw a map for you right now, where Russia will include all of Europe, India and China. They’ll collect all the crap on the Internet and take us to SAIT-AAAAAAAA KARAUL.
    2. Themi30
      Themi30 April 16 2015 09: 50 New
      +2
      fomkin
      With such serious information, sites are waiting for you, they are waiting for you there.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 April 16 2015 14: 26 New
      +2
      And here they say: "temporarily means forever." Too late to rush.
    5. EGOrkka
      EGOrkka April 16 2015 15: 54 New
      +3
      You look at the globe of Ukraine -there are even poles of Nem !!!
  8. fomkin
    fomkin April 16 2015 08: 07 New
    +7
    P.S. as Dymets thinks, this is known
  9. Intensive
    Intensive April 16 2015 08: 09 New
    +2
    At least all proceeds from the transaction should be directed to R&D at Almaz-Antey. In general, the opinion of development engineers is interesting.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 April 16 2015 15: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Intensive
      At least all proceeds from the transaction should be directed to R&D at Almaz-Antey.

      It is already well funded by the state-factories that were built with state money
    2. Lenivets
      Lenivets April 27 2015 01: 03 New
      +1
      See my comment above. laughing
  10. Rigla
    Rigla April 16 2015 09: 45 New
    -1
    It is possible that the support fee for Ukraine ... Although I would not want to believe ...
    1. saag
      saag April 16 2015 11: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Rigla
      It is possible that the support fee for Ukraine ..

      Not really, but rather for the opportunity to sell gas to China at an unnamed public price
      1. Leeder
        Leeder April 16 2015 15: 38 New
        +3
        But I think that on the contrary, the sale of air defense systems is more likely an appendage to the gas contract. It is unlikely that ours gave a discount both there and there. Rather, our people wanted to sell gas at a certain price, and the Chinese said -10% + S-400
    2. 16112014nk
      16112014nk April 16 2015 14: 50 New
      +2
      China did not recognize the entry of Crimea into Russia. But in the anti-popular thieves' pr-ve RF (market federation) is full of traitors to the national interests of Russia. For a handful of "green" are ready to sell everything and everyone!
      1. oldkap22
        oldkap22 April 17 2015 13: 36 New
        -1
        do not judge by yourself! we can consider this as an attempt to "standardize air defense systems" and carry out a kind of division of labor in the arms market (We are the head of China-hands ...) if we "protect our KNOWHOW" and do not hinder the development of our technologies, it can work out (if we we will not whine, but we will work ...) well, political support (and economic) is oh so important to us now ...)
      2. Lenivets
        Lenivets April 27 2015 01: 09 New
        -1
        Do you consider yourself a patriot?
        But nothing that you hate your own country (unless of course you are a citizen of the Russian Federation)?
        Maybe you are nevertheless closer to the enemies of the motherland than to the defenders? wink
    3. The comment was deleted.
  11. _KM_
    _KM_ April 16 2015 11: 20 New
    0
    It seems that the story of the Sukhoi fighters taught us nothing. But in vain.
    1. ilyaspb
      ilyaspb April 16 2015 13: 05 New
      -1
      Which are all smart. But nothing that we, manufacturers of avionics, for many years lived only thanks to Chinese and Indian orders for Sukhoi fighters? And not just orders for finished products, China and India paid for development, which saved space for developers, and not just finished products. The same with Klimov Design Bureau - China paid for the development of engines.
      1. Lenivets
        Lenivets April 27 2015 01: 11 New
        0
        "+100500" colleague good
  12. Dan Slav
    Dan Slav April 16 2015 11: 42 New
    +1
    Further, everyone will buy Triumphs from China.
  13. qwert
    qwert April 16 2015 12: 50 New
    -1
    To feed from the hand of a Chinese dragon without a suitable sword is somewhat short-sighted. For the sale of C-400 you need to demand support in some political issues. Since we are feeding a competitor who will soon knock us out of the arms market altogether. At least some sense and benefit will be
  14. rumor_today
    rumor_today April 16 2015 13: 29 New
    0
    The situation will be exactly the same as with SU-27 fighters. They will buy a couple, but they will refuse the rest. They will copy and start releasing at home.
    1. Pissarro
      Pissarro April 20 2015 02: 47 New
      +2
      And what happened to the su fighters? It turned out something similar in appearance with much lower characteristics. In general, you should never fight hard with copying our technology. The USSR also copied fiats. The whole essence of research institutes is in the presence of our own school, our own developments, our own discoveries and solutions. What does the Chinese do? All his scientific powers are devoted to the study and copying of our samples, he simply does not have one and there is nobody to do it. The result of even perfect copying will be, firstly, an eternal lag (while they copy, we go forward), secondly, their crafts are an open book for us, thirdly affection for only one school makes them buy everything from us again and again, and therefore make friends with us
  15. Leeder
    Leeder April 16 2015 15: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Russ_Dry
    this is called to win a penny, and lose to the rupee.

    Well, why? If a large quantity is produced, and production is put on stream (with mass production the price of 1 unit decreases.) Then R&D will fully pay off.
    As a result, the price will not be much more than the Chinese one, and the quality is higher, and this is provided that China has time to clone by the year 20, and good quality, which is far from a fact.
    In this situation, this is a big advertising move, you just have to sell all the complexes with a large radius of action, like China, and this is not buzzing if weapons are exported no worse than our troops.
  16. Governor
    Governor April 16 2015 17: 27 New
    +2
    But it was recently said that they would not go exporting c400 until they forced all of Russia ... Not so long ago, there was an article in the HE about the country's air defense zones ... And everything is very sad there. Obviously, it was China that knocked them out for a gas contract (their prudence has already begun to appear).
    Well, China is officially stronger than Russia. Crawled to him on his knees - a shame! In the coffin of the Putin era, there is nowhere to hammer nails.
    And now you know that, Crimea does not block all this even once.
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 April 16 2015 18: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Governor
      s400 will not be exported until all of Russia is forced into them.

      According to some reports, the first complexes will be delivered no earlier than 2020, although who knows ....
    2. oldkap22
      oldkap22 April 17 2015 20: 17 New
      +1
      you bury it early! and Crimea is not for sale_bought ... but the "big game" did not start today and it is not for us to end it ..
  17. Radikal
    Radikal April 16 2015 17: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Governor
    But it was recently said that they would not go exporting c400 until they forced all of Russia ... Not so long ago, there was an article in the HE about the country's air defense zones ... And everything is very sad there. Obviously, it was China that knocked them out for a gas contract (their prudence has already begun to appear).
    Well, China is officially stronger than Russia. Crawled to him on his knees - a shame! In the coffin of the Putin era, there is nowhere to hammer nails.
    And now you know that, Crimea does not block all this even once.

    Indeed, I read the title of the article, and was surprised — I (by naivety) thought that the RF Ministry of Defense was the first buyer of air defense systems, and that Russia fully provided for its needs in these complexes! wassat
  18. Polar
    Polar April 16 2015 19: 43 New
    0
    Yes, everything is fine. They will sell some chip-like version. And the Chinese will again stupidly copy. Well, we don’t quite have TAM fools .; )
  19. Cossack Ermak
    Cossack Ermak April 16 2015 21: 47 New
    0
    I wouldn’t sell anything to China in the amount of 4 divisions. They will go to disassemble and create their own. China is increasingly successfully copying and then brazenly trading the same for less money.
    1. Pissarro
      Pissarro April 20 2015 02: 36 New
      +1
      Quality inferior at times
  20. alone
    alone April 16 2015 22: 45 New
    -1
    With a slight hand movement, these 4 divisions will become 100 times larger in a couple of years.

    We then know how the Chinese are able to copy and produce the right thing with lightning speed)))
    1. alone
      alone April 20 2015 19: 39 New
      -1
      laughing judging by the minuses, it turns out that the Chinese have nothing to copy, they produce everything exclusively themselves. And what do gentlemen say, minusers, when in a couple of years China starts selling
      s-400 own production under some other name?

      I know that you will begin to say: "Where was the government looking?", "How could such weapons be sold to them?" etc.
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro April 20 2015 19: 47 New
        +2
        an example of not copied Chinese technology in the studio laughing
  21. Nikolaitch
    Nikolaitch April 17 2015 00: 50 New
    -1
    We now need every division.
    Therefore, they sold and sold, you can’t turn it back.
    It’s good that it’s not 6, 10 18, etc.
  22. oleg-sochi68
    oleg-sochi68 April 17 2015 18: 00 New
    +2
    When the S-300 appeared, China bought them too. He tried to reproduce and admitted that their sample was only similar in appearance, but they could not repeat the performance characteristics.
  23. Dry_T-50
    Dry_T-50 April 19 2015 17: 26 New
    +3
    S-400 is copy protected. This is to the question of the possibility of China's production of "pirate" S-400
    1. one
      one April 19 2015 23: 22 New
      -2
      Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
      S-400 is copy protected. This is to the question of the possibility of China's production of "pirate" S-400

      Yes, at autopsy or microexplosion, or something else, but you can copy the general concept.
      and the Chinese now no longer need to blindly copy, they themselves have learned to construct and design.
      and our products, as well as others, are more needed for comparative tests, and it’s also very important to know what a potential adversary is armed with.
    2. opus
      opus April 20 2015 01: 52 New
      -1
      Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
      S-400 is copy protected

      what nonsense ...
      HOW?
      Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
      This is the question of the possibility of China's production of "pirate" S-400

      1. "Hongqi-17"

      2.Crossover X7

      3.J-11

      4.RSZO A-100, PHL-03



      / nothing is known about that Russia sold to the People's Republic of China multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) "Smerch" or even less a license for their production./
      And bring them numbers ...
      In the 1980s, Chinese intelligence even managed to get in the USA drawings of the latest W-88 warhead from the Trident-2 ballistic missile for submarines.

      Even the Eiffel Tower ... managed
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro April 20 2015 02: 34 New
        +1
        What did you want to say with these pictures? What looks similar? Does a 3D printer work? So the main thing inside laughing
        1. opus
          opus April 20 2015 09: 41 New
          -1
          Quote: Pissarro
          What did you want to say with these pictures?

          Read more carefully:

          Quote: opus
          what nonsense ...

          same thing about statements

          Quote: Pissarro
          Does a 3D printer work? So the main thing inside

          a) A 3D printer is not capable of this, even a clone of an eoffel cannot be made, even TODAY.
          b) well, and enlighten that there is a difference in the inside? You’ve seen specials and see inside?

          Chinese anti-aircraft missile system HQ-9, created Based on the technologies of the Russian S-300P air defense system


          In 2010, Russia completed the delivery to China of 15 divisions of the S-300PMU-2 complexes, which defended Beijing and Shanghai.


          =================================================
          HQ-7 is not an analogue of the French anti-aircraft missile system "Crotal"?

          Is this all on a 3D printer? And the main thing is inside him. Right?
          MB You do not know what is inside the S-300 air defense system, but you know R440 for "yat"?
          Can you find 7 differences "inside"?
  24. Ivan the Fool
    Ivan the Fool 2 May 2015 17: 07 New
    -2
    Wait for a copy or fake, which may be the original !!!!!!!!