Domestic projects of tank guns caliber 152 mm
In the context of the Armata project, the possible use of new weapons is sometimes mentioned. In particular, there was an assumption according to which the new Russian tank should receive a 152 mm gun. Nevertheless, it is already known that the Armata will receive a 125 mm gun. It should be noted that in our country attempts were really made to create modern tank guns of increased caliber. Over the past several decades, the Soviet and then Russian defense industry has repeatedly made attempts to develop a modern smooth-bore 152 mm tank gun. Creating a similar weapons and the beginning of its operation could become a real revolution in the field of tank building, but domestic tanks never received it. For a number of reasons, they are still equipped with 125-mm guns.
LP-83
In the mid-eighties among the military and tank builders spread the view that it is necessary to further increase the firepower of armored vehicles by increasing the caliber of guns. In order to work out the possibility of creating a tank with such weapons, the project “Object 292” was launched. Experts of the Leningrad Kirovsky Plant (LKZ) and the VNII Transmash were engaged in the development of this experimental project, the project manager was N.S. Popov.
According to initial calculations, the design of the tank, based on the existing components and assemblies of the production machine T-80BV, did not allow the use of guns of a caliber larger than 140 mm. With further increase in the caliber there was a risk of deformation and damage to the design of the machine. However, after a series of calculations and studies, it was possible to find opportunities for an additional increase in firepower. As a result, it was determined that the caliber of the gun can be brought to 152,4 mm. After that, a new question appeared: the type of trunk. Considered the possibility of using smooth and rifled trunks. Initially, the Petrel Research Institute was assigned the task of developing a smooth-bore 152 mm caliber gun, which was designated LP-83. Later, after many disputes, it was decided to test the rifled gun, but its development did not start due to financial problems that emerged in the late eighties. According to others, the debate about the type of gun ended in the absence of supporters of a rifled barrel.
In addition to the Petrel Research Institute, the project of a promising tank guns worked at the Perm Machine-Building Plant. In addition to these organizations, it was planned to involve others in the project. Thus, the tower for the tank "Object 292" was supposed to build Izhora plant (Leningrad), but his leadership refused such an order because of the load. After that, the LKZ specialists independently developed a draft of the tower and ordered its assembly to the Zhdanov transport engineering plant (now Mariupol), however, this time the tank was almost left without a tower. In the end, there was a draft revision of the serial T-80BV turret in order to install a large-sized gun in it. It was this kind of combat module that was eventually used on the experienced 292 Object.
Due to the high power in the design of the LP-83 gun, I had to use some original ideas and solutions. Thus, the barrel and chamber were chrome-plated, which made it possible to bring the cross-pressure to the level of 7000 kg / sq. cm and above. In the early version of the project, a shutter with a vertical wedge and semi-automatic cocking was proposed. In addition, on the breech of the gun should have been a special valve, blocking the bore after the extraction of spent cartridges to avoid smoke station compartment. Some proposals were soon rejected, others were finalized, and still others were used without any changes. So, an experimental tool LP-83 received a piston gate instead of a wedge, and instead of an ejector on the gun there was an air purge system.
Construction of an experimental tank "Object 292" ended in the fall of the year 1990. At the beginning of the next 91, the car was sent to the landfill for test firing. It is known that the new experimental LP-83 smooth-bore gun had significantly higher characteristics in comparison with the 2-46 series production guns. So, the 152-mm gun had about one and a half times greater shot momentum than the existing weapon. At the same time, highly effective anti-recoil devices made it possible to talk about the possible use of a new weapon on serial tanks. Rollback guns LP-83 and 2А46 were about the same. As a result, the T-80BV tank chassis behaved stably, and its design did not experience excessive loads.
According to reports, during the test firing shots were made at armored vehicles. So, several shots were made at the decommissioned T-72 tank. They resulted in several breaks in the tower. In addition, in the fighting compartment of the target tank, various elements of the internal equipment were torn off. Shooting at the tank clearly showed the combat capabilities of the promising 152-mm LP-83 gun.
Tests of the experimental tank "Object 292" with the 152-mm gun LP-83 showed the prospects for such weapons. The possibility of a significant increase in the firepower of the main tanks was proved by using new guns of increased caliber without any serious problems with the design of the base armored vehicle. Thus, after a series of additional studies, design work and tests, a project of a promising main tank armed with an 152 caliber mm could appear.
Nevertheless, in the late eighties and early nineties in our country there were serious changes that seriously hit the army, the defense industry and the mass of promising projects. Perhaps the work on the subject 152-mm smooth-bore tank guns could continue, but the reality decreed otherwise. Tank "Object 292" after the end of the test for some time remained at the site and was not used in any work. In 2007, the car was sent to Kubinka, where it became an exhibit of the museum.
2А83
Since the end of the nineties, the Ural transport engineering design bureau has been working on a project for the promising main tank “Object 195”. According to reports, a few years ago the development of this project was discontinued, but so far most of the information about it remains secret. Only fragmentary information has become public knowledge, and a considerable part of the information about the “195 Object” is estimates, guesses and conjectures. Nevertheless, it is known that a promising armored vehicle was supposed to carry a gun caliber 152 mm. In the new project, it was proposed to use a new tool, created specifically for it, and not borrowed from the 292 Object project.
The 2A83 152 mm caliber gun was supposed to be the main weapon of the advanced tank. This artillery system was developed by Plant No. XXUMX (Yekaterinburg) and was to provide the new armored vehicle with uniquely high combat characteristics.
It is known that the tank "Object 195" was to be equipped with an uninhabited tower with a smooth-bore gun caliber 152 mm. The tower was supposed to be in the form of a low support platform with a box-shaped casing on the roof. Inside the latter, it was proposed to place the attachment tools and recoil devices. There was supposed to be located automatic loader. The presence of the latter was mandatory due to the use of an uninhabited tower. Some sources mention that the 30-mm automatic cannon and the 12,7-mm machine gun were also to be mounted on the turret. They were supposed to be used as paired and anti-aircraft weapons: according to some data, the tank was planned to be equipped with a paired machine gun and an anti-aircraft gun, according to others - with a paired gun and anti-aircraft machine gun.
Due to the lack of accurate official data, there are various versions regarding the design of the automatic loader. According to one version, the ammunition was to be located in a mechanized installation, placed in the aft niche of the tower. In this case, the automatics should have independently removed ammunition from the stacking cells and sent them to the milling line. During all operations, the projectiles had to remain outside the tank's armored hull, which could have a positive effect on its survivability and reduce the risks associated with defeat of the ammunition stack. The stern niche of the tower could be made in the form of a detachable module. Thus, it was possible to simplify the loading of ammunition: for this, it was necessary to remove the “spent” feed module of the turret from the tank and install a new one with shells.
According to other data, the automatic loading of the tank "Object 195" associated with the gun 2А83, was to be a further development of the ideas embodied in the previous systems of this class. Using the increase in free space in the uninhabited fighting compartment, it was possible to place all 152-mm shots vertically in a mechanized carousel styling. In addition to the latter, the automat had to include a lift and a discharging mechanism designed to feed the shells to the gun and prepare it for firing. A curious feature of the proposed automatic loader, according to some data, was the gap between the bottom of the piling and the bottom of the case. Thanks to this, in particular, it was possible to operate the automation even with some damage to the case.
The 2А83 cannon was to be equipped with a smooth barrel with a length of 55 gauges. It could be used as a launcher, suitable both for firing "traditional" shells, and for launching guided missiles. In some sources it is mentioned that the ammunition of this gun could include not only anti-tank, but also anti-aircraft missiles of appropriate dimensions. Thus, the tank "Object 195" could fight with manpower, armored vehicles, fortifications, and even attack helicopters opponents. In the dimensions of the existing fighting compartment, it was possible to place up to 40 shots for various purposes, including high-explosive fragmentation and armor-piercing shells of various types, as well as anti-tank and anti-aircraft guided missiles.
Experiments with the tool LP-83 in the early nineties showed the benefits of increasing caliber. According to reports, the 2А83 cannon, using a larger propellant charge compared to shots for the standard 2А46, could launch an armor-piercing sabot projectile at speeds up to 1980-2000 m / s. Thus, a significant superiority was achieved over the existing tank guns with any type of ammunition.
It is known that the gun 2А83 passed tests. Several years ago several photos of this instrument appeared in free access. The first shot was taken during the first stages of testing, when the gun was mounted on the tracked gun carriage of the B-4 gun. The details of these tests, unfortunately, are unknown. Having some information about the tests of the LP-83 gun, it can be assumed that the 2-83 showed no less high performance. In this case, as always happens in such cases, some flaws should have manifested themselves, which, if there were, then remain under secrecy.
There was also an experimental model of a tank with an original tower of an uninhabited structure. The existence of this prototype is confirmed not only by various references in different sources, but also by photographs. A new combat module with an 72-mm gun was installed on the chassis of the serial T-152 tank. The appearance of the units captured in the photo can serve as confirmation of the version about the use of laying ammunition in the form of a removable module. So, the prototype cannon is fixed in a relatively small cabin, which has no feed sheet. It is quite possible that a box with ammunition and mechanized installation was to be attached to this aft "window".
In the middle of the two thousand years, it was reported that the tank "Object 195" is being tested, after which it can be adopted by the Russian army. 2010 appeared several times news about the possible demonstration of a promising car to the general public. In addition, rumors continued to circulate soon that the new tank would be put into service. However, all this information was not confirmed. Finally, it became known that work on the 195 Object project was halted due to the need to develop a new Armat platform. The management of Uralvagonzavod declared its intention to continue to work on its own initiative and without the participation of the Ministry of Defense, however, since then no new reports about the project have appeared.
Advantages and disadvantages
For two decades, the Russian gunsmith designers have created two projects of promising guns caliber 152 mm. As far as is known, both of these developments remained at the design and testing stage, failing to interest the potential customer in the person of the armed forces. So far, disputes about the feasibility of such weapons for tanks, as well as its prospects, advantages and disadvantages, have not abated. Consider some of the pros and cons of 152-mm guns.
The main plus smoothbore tank guns caliber 152 mm - a uniquely high power. Thus, the LP-83 was about one and a half times more powerful than the serial 2А46, which should have a corresponding effect on combat effectiveness. In addition, it became possible to use existing 152-mm shells of various types used by artillery, which also could to a certain extent improve the potential of the tank. The increased caliber allowed to create new ammunition, including armor-piercing sub-caliber shells of increased power and guided missiles, both anti-tank and anti-aircraft.
The cons of the 152-mm tank guns are as obvious as the pros. First of all, these are large dimensions in comparison with existing 125-mm artillery systems. The dimensions of the gun impose specific requirements for the design of the tank. Relatively large ammunition also affects the design of the armored vehicle or its individual units. They require either to increase stacking for ammunition, or to reduce it, fitting in the available volumes. In addition, it may be necessary to create a new automatic loader, as demonstrated by the 195 Object project. An equally important problem that needs to be solved is an extremely high recoil momentum, for which new recoil devices are necessary. The use of units, unchanged borrowed from existing 125-mm guns, threatens to damage both recoil devices and the design of the tank itself.
The experience of two domestic projects shows that the current level of technological development allows us to develop and build promising main tanks with smooth-bore guns of caliber 152 mm. This requires some relatively new technologies, but there are no fundamental problems. Nevertheless, such promising projects face not only technical problems. New projects may not be feasible in terms of economics and logistics.
Development and mass production of new 152-mm guns and tanks on which they will be used, are associated with relatively large costs. In addition, the development of the production of new ammunition for such equipment and their distribution between tank units will be quite expensive and difficult. From the point of view of economics and logistics in the existing situation, 152-mm guns have no advantages over 125-millimeter guns. The warehouses have an enormous amount of different 125 mm caliber ammunition, which is why the parallel operation of tanks with two-caliber guns, not to mention the full transfer of ground forces to new tanks with larger-caliber weapons, does not look quite reasonable.
Another specific feature of 152-mm guns is the lack of worthy targets. According to the available data, modern domestic tanks, using the available ammunition, are capable of fighting various enemy armored vehicles. In such a case, the power of 152-mm guns may be excessive to fight tanks, which casts doubt on the very idea of operating such weapons.
Thus, the combat advantages of tanks with 152 mm caliber guns are confronted with ambiguous logistic and economic features, as well as the inexpediency of using such powerful weapons against existing and future targets. As a result, the military has shown no interest in 152-mm tank guns. The LP-83 project is closed after all the tests have been completed, and the 2-83 tool, as follows from the available data, has no real prospects. As far as we know, the new Armata tank will be equipped with a 125 caliber mm gun. This means that the gun revolution in tank design is again postponed indefinitely.
On the materials of the sites:
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
http://dogswar.ru/
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/
http://vpk.name/
http://militaryparitet.com/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://ru-artillery.livejournal.com/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-311.html
LP-83
In the mid-eighties among the military and tank builders spread the view that it is necessary to further increase the firepower of armored vehicles by increasing the caliber of guns. In order to work out the possibility of creating a tank with such weapons, the project “Object 292” was launched. Experts of the Leningrad Kirovsky Plant (LKZ) and the VNII Transmash were engaged in the development of this experimental project, the project manager was N.S. Popov.
According to initial calculations, the design of the tank, based on the existing components and assemblies of the production machine T-80BV, did not allow the use of guns of a caliber larger than 140 mm. With further increase in the caliber there was a risk of deformation and damage to the design of the machine. However, after a series of calculations and studies, it was possible to find opportunities for an additional increase in firepower. As a result, it was determined that the caliber of the gun can be brought to 152,4 mm. After that, a new question appeared: the type of trunk. Considered the possibility of using smooth and rifled trunks. Initially, the Petrel Research Institute was assigned the task of developing a smooth-bore 152 mm caliber gun, which was designated LP-83. Later, after many disputes, it was decided to test the rifled gun, but its development did not start due to financial problems that emerged in the late eighties. According to others, the debate about the type of gun ended in the absence of supporters of a rifled barrel.
In addition to the Petrel Research Institute, the project of a promising tank guns worked at the Perm Machine-Building Plant. In addition to these organizations, it was planned to involve others in the project. Thus, the tower for the tank "Object 292" was supposed to build Izhora plant (Leningrad), but his leadership refused such an order because of the load. After that, the LKZ specialists independently developed a draft of the tower and ordered its assembly to the Zhdanov transport engineering plant (now Mariupol), however, this time the tank was almost left without a tower. In the end, there was a draft revision of the serial T-80BV turret in order to install a large-sized gun in it. It was this kind of combat module that was eventually used on the experienced 292 Object.
Due to the high power in the design of the LP-83 gun, I had to use some original ideas and solutions. Thus, the barrel and chamber were chrome-plated, which made it possible to bring the cross-pressure to the level of 7000 kg / sq. cm and above. In the early version of the project, a shutter with a vertical wedge and semi-automatic cocking was proposed. In addition, on the breech of the gun should have been a special valve, blocking the bore after the extraction of spent cartridges to avoid smoke station compartment. Some proposals were soon rejected, others were finalized, and still others were used without any changes. So, an experimental tool LP-83 received a piston gate instead of a wedge, and instead of an ejector on the gun there was an air purge system.
Construction of an experimental tank "Object 292" ended in the fall of the year 1990. At the beginning of the next 91, the car was sent to the landfill for test firing. It is known that the new experimental LP-83 smooth-bore gun had significantly higher characteristics in comparison with the 2-46 series production guns. So, the 152-mm gun had about one and a half times greater shot momentum than the existing weapon. At the same time, highly effective anti-recoil devices made it possible to talk about the possible use of a new weapon on serial tanks. Rollback guns LP-83 and 2А46 were about the same. As a result, the T-80BV tank chassis behaved stably, and its design did not experience excessive loads.
According to reports, during the test firing shots were made at armored vehicles. So, several shots were made at the decommissioned T-72 tank. They resulted in several breaks in the tower. In addition, in the fighting compartment of the target tank, various elements of the internal equipment were torn off. Shooting at the tank clearly showed the combat capabilities of the promising 152-mm LP-83 gun.
Tests of the experimental tank "Object 292" with the 152-mm gun LP-83 showed the prospects for such weapons. The possibility of a significant increase in the firepower of the main tanks was proved by using new guns of increased caliber without any serious problems with the design of the base armored vehicle. Thus, after a series of additional studies, design work and tests, a project of a promising main tank armed with an 152 caliber mm could appear.
Nevertheless, in the late eighties and early nineties in our country there were serious changes that seriously hit the army, the defense industry and the mass of promising projects. Perhaps the work on the subject 152-mm smooth-bore tank guns could continue, but the reality decreed otherwise. Tank "Object 292" after the end of the test for some time remained at the site and was not used in any work. In 2007, the car was sent to Kubinka, where it became an exhibit of the museum.
2А83
Since the end of the nineties, the Ural transport engineering design bureau has been working on a project for the promising main tank “Object 195”. According to reports, a few years ago the development of this project was discontinued, but so far most of the information about it remains secret. Only fragmentary information has become public knowledge, and a considerable part of the information about the “195 Object” is estimates, guesses and conjectures. Nevertheless, it is known that a promising armored vehicle was supposed to carry a gun caliber 152 mm. In the new project, it was proposed to use a new tool, created specifically for it, and not borrowed from the 292 Object project.
The 2A83 152 mm caliber gun was supposed to be the main weapon of the advanced tank. This artillery system was developed by Plant No. XXUMX (Yekaterinburg) and was to provide the new armored vehicle with uniquely high combat characteristics.
It is known that the tank "Object 195" was to be equipped with an uninhabited tower with a smooth-bore gun caliber 152 mm. The tower was supposed to be in the form of a low support platform with a box-shaped casing on the roof. Inside the latter, it was proposed to place the attachment tools and recoil devices. There was supposed to be located automatic loader. The presence of the latter was mandatory due to the use of an uninhabited tower. Some sources mention that the 30-mm automatic cannon and the 12,7-mm machine gun were also to be mounted on the turret. They were supposed to be used as paired and anti-aircraft weapons: according to some data, the tank was planned to be equipped with a paired machine gun and an anti-aircraft gun, according to others - with a paired gun and anti-aircraft machine gun.
Due to the lack of accurate official data, there are various versions regarding the design of the automatic loader. According to one version, the ammunition was to be located in a mechanized installation, placed in the aft niche of the tower. In this case, the automatics should have independently removed ammunition from the stacking cells and sent them to the milling line. During all operations, the projectiles had to remain outside the tank's armored hull, which could have a positive effect on its survivability and reduce the risks associated with defeat of the ammunition stack. The stern niche of the tower could be made in the form of a detachable module. Thus, it was possible to simplify the loading of ammunition: for this, it was necessary to remove the “spent” feed module of the turret from the tank and install a new one with shells.
According to other data, the automatic loading of the tank "Object 195" associated with the gun 2А83, was to be a further development of the ideas embodied in the previous systems of this class. Using the increase in free space in the uninhabited fighting compartment, it was possible to place all 152-mm shots vertically in a mechanized carousel styling. In addition to the latter, the automat had to include a lift and a discharging mechanism designed to feed the shells to the gun and prepare it for firing. A curious feature of the proposed automatic loader, according to some data, was the gap between the bottom of the piling and the bottom of the case. Thanks to this, in particular, it was possible to operate the automation even with some damage to the case.
The 2А83 cannon was to be equipped with a smooth barrel with a length of 55 gauges. It could be used as a launcher, suitable both for firing "traditional" shells, and for launching guided missiles. In some sources it is mentioned that the ammunition of this gun could include not only anti-tank, but also anti-aircraft missiles of appropriate dimensions. Thus, the tank "Object 195" could fight with manpower, armored vehicles, fortifications, and even attack helicopters opponents. In the dimensions of the existing fighting compartment, it was possible to place up to 40 shots for various purposes, including high-explosive fragmentation and armor-piercing shells of various types, as well as anti-tank and anti-aircraft guided missiles.
Experiments with the tool LP-83 in the early nineties showed the benefits of increasing caliber. According to reports, the 2А83 cannon, using a larger propellant charge compared to shots for the standard 2А46, could launch an armor-piercing sabot projectile at speeds up to 1980-2000 m / s. Thus, a significant superiority was achieved over the existing tank guns with any type of ammunition.
It is known that the gun 2А83 passed tests. Several years ago several photos of this instrument appeared in free access. The first shot was taken during the first stages of testing, when the gun was mounted on the tracked gun carriage of the B-4 gun. The details of these tests, unfortunately, are unknown. Having some information about the tests of the LP-83 gun, it can be assumed that the 2-83 showed no less high performance. In this case, as always happens in such cases, some flaws should have manifested themselves, which, if there were, then remain under secrecy.
There was also an experimental model of a tank with an original tower of an uninhabited structure. The existence of this prototype is confirmed not only by various references in different sources, but also by photographs. A new combat module with an 72-mm gun was installed on the chassis of the serial T-152 tank. The appearance of the units captured in the photo can serve as confirmation of the version about the use of laying ammunition in the form of a removable module. So, the prototype cannon is fixed in a relatively small cabin, which has no feed sheet. It is quite possible that a box with ammunition and mechanized installation was to be attached to this aft "window".
In the middle of the two thousand years, it was reported that the tank "Object 195" is being tested, after which it can be adopted by the Russian army. 2010 appeared several times news about the possible demonstration of a promising car to the general public. In addition, rumors continued to circulate soon that the new tank would be put into service. However, all this information was not confirmed. Finally, it became known that work on the 195 Object project was halted due to the need to develop a new Armat platform. The management of Uralvagonzavod declared its intention to continue to work on its own initiative and without the participation of the Ministry of Defense, however, since then no new reports about the project have appeared.
Advantages and disadvantages
For two decades, the Russian gunsmith designers have created two projects of promising guns caliber 152 mm. As far as is known, both of these developments remained at the design and testing stage, failing to interest the potential customer in the person of the armed forces. So far, disputes about the feasibility of such weapons for tanks, as well as its prospects, advantages and disadvantages, have not abated. Consider some of the pros and cons of 152-mm guns.
The main plus smoothbore tank guns caliber 152 mm - a uniquely high power. Thus, the LP-83 was about one and a half times more powerful than the serial 2А46, which should have a corresponding effect on combat effectiveness. In addition, it became possible to use existing 152-mm shells of various types used by artillery, which also could to a certain extent improve the potential of the tank. The increased caliber allowed to create new ammunition, including armor-piercing sub-caliber shells of increased power and guided missiles, both anti-tank and anti-aircraft.
The cons of the 152-mm tank guns are as obvious as the pros. First of all, these are large dimensions in comparison with existing 125-mm artillery systems. The dimensions of the gun impose specific requirements for the design of the tank. Relatively large ammunition also affects the design of the armored vehicle or its individual units. They require either to increase stacking for ammunition, or to reduce it, fitting in the available volumes. In addition, it may be necessary to create a new automatic loader, as demonstrated by the 195 Object project. An equally important problem that needs to be solved is an extremely high recoil momentum, for which new recoil devices are necessary. The use of units, unchanged borrowed from existing 125-mm guns, threatens to damage both recoil devices and the design of the tank itself.
The experience of two domestic projects shows that the current level of technological development allows us to develop and build promising main tanks with smooth-bore guns of caliber 152 mm. This requires some relatively new technologies, but there are no fundamental problems. Nevertheless, such promising projects face not only technical problems. New projects may not be feasible in terms of economics and logistics.
Development and mass production of new 152-mm guns and tanks on which they will be used, are associated with relatively large costs. In addition, the development of the production of new ammunition for such equipment and their distribution between tank units will be quite expensive and difficult. From the point of view of economics and logistics in the existing situation, 152-mm guns have no advantages over 125-millimeter guns. The warehouses have an enormous amount of different 125 mm caliber ammunition, which is why the parallel operation of tanks with two-caliber guns, not to mention the full transfer of ground forces to new tanks with larger-caliber weapons, does not look quite reasonable.
Another specific feature of 152-mm guns is the lack of worthy targets. According to the available data, modern domestic tanks, using the available ammunition, are capable of fighting various enemy armored vehicles. In such a case, the power of 152-mm guns may be excessive to fight tanks, which casts doubt on the very idea of operating such weapons.
Thus, the combat advantages of tanks with 152 mm caliber guns are confronted with ambiguous logistic and economic features, as well as the inexpediency of using such powerful weapons against existing and future targets. As a result, the military has shown no interest in 152-mm tank guns. The LP-83 project is closed after all the tests have been completed, and the 2-83 tool, as follows from the available data, has no real prospects. As far as we know, the new Armata tank will be equipped with a 125 caliber mm gun. This means that the gun revolution in tank design is again postponed indefinitely.
On the materials of the sites:
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
http://dogswar.ru/
http://nevskii-bastion.ru/
http://vpk.name/
http://militaryparitet.com/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://ru-artillery.livejournal.com/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-311.html
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