How "Kalashnikov" became "Galil"

260
How "Kalashnikov" became "Galil"


14 May Day 1948 year for most countries in the Middle East is particularly memorable. The proclamation of the independence of Israel on that day instantly unleashed numerous bloody conflicts with all its neighbors who defended the sovereignty and integrity of their territories and categorically did not want to see the newly appeared state on the map of the region. Since then, the Israelis have constantly had to fully develop their military-industrial potential and equip the army with the most effective models of military equipment and weapons.

In the 1950s and 60s the basis of the small arms of the Israeli army were 7,62 mm automatic rifles FN FAL, originally Belgian production, subsequently replaced by their own, produced under license weapons Israel Military Industries (IMI) in Ramatha Sharon. However, during the "six-day war" of Israel with its Arab neighbors - Egypt, Syria and Jordan (1967), the Israeli military command was forced to recognize the superiority of opponents in small arms. While the Israeli infantrymen bombarded their command with complaints about the FN FAL rifle, which in the most difficult desert-sandy terrain of the Middle East theater of operations proved to be insufficiently reliable - the Arab soldiers were armed with reliable and unpretentious Soviet Kalashnikov assault rifles in any conditions. The Israelis complained about the constant failures of their FN FAL, which arose due to inadequate care of weapons (quite natural in the conditions of hostilities) due to pollution and dustiness of the mobile automation system. The command of the Israeli armed forces was convinced of the need to replace the FN FAL rifles with a more promising model. Their soldiers needed weapons that would have, like the Kalashnikov assault rifle, high combat and service-operational qualities.



Taught by bitter experience, the Israel Defense Forces in the late 1960s. adopted a new concept of warfare, which included the simultaneous use tank, mechanized, airborne troops and the air force to strike and penetrate through the enemy's tactical defense lines to its entire operational depth with the aim of its final defeat. The condition for the implementation of such a task was the creation of effective mobile forces, which also required the development of appropriate systems and weapons. A promising weapon was supposed to provide a solution to a variety of fire missions - from the defeat of single and group living targets and military equipment on the ground to the fight against low-flying aircraft and helicopters.

Solving such a wide range of fire tasks in close combat could only be universalization of the weapons being developed and the expansion of the combat capabilities of promising models that were required to achieve without a significant reduction in the basic indicators.

In short, Israel needed a new assault rifle.

Therefore, in 1969, they began to design a new model of individual automatic infantry weapons. Along with high combat performance and reliability of the mobile parts of automation, the new assault rifle was required to: conduct a single and continuous fire; weight not more than 4 – 4,5 kg; direct shot of the chest figure - not less than 400 m; overall dimensions to ensure free movement of the sample through the landing hatch of the Merkava tank of the Mk.1, in which it was supposed to have a fully equipped infantrymen on the 10 troop compartment.
After a long study of modern models of small arms, the Soviet Kalashnikov AK assault rifle was taken as the basis for developing a multipurpose automatic rifle, since Israeli gunsmiths had thoroughly studied all its advantages and disadvantages. Studies of ammunition led the Israelis to conclude that the most effective means of improving the accuracy of combat when shooting from the most common unstable situations is to reduce the recoil momentum when fired. The result was a choice for the American weapon of the American low-pulse cartridge 5,56 × 45 mm М193. This cartridge had an increased slaughter effect of light bullets weighing 3,56 g, which was achieved due to the lack of stabilization (minimum stability margin) of the bullets flying on the trajectory - the result of the fact that the rifle barrel bore must have a very gentle pitch of 305 mm. It was believed that in this case the 5,56-mm cartridges bullets, having sufficient rotational speed to maintain stability in the air, when they hit the more dense tissues of the body will lose stability and will begin to "tumble", causing injuries of an "explosive" nature, far exceeding the severity of injuries NATO 7,62-mm bullets used in FN FAL rifles.



In the same 1969, Israeli gunsmiths from IMI created two rifles on a competitive basis. A group of designers led by Israel Galili-Blashnikov and Jacob Lior presented the Galil rifle, and Major Uziel Gal, the designer of the world-famous UZI submachine gun, the Ultrasound rifle. Already in March 1969, the new Israeli rifles passed comparative tests with the American M16A1, Stouner-63, AR-18 and West German NK-33. The Galil rifle showed the best results, getting 98 from 100 points, the UZI rifle ranked second (and the American M16A1, with 82 points the fourth).

The Galil assault rifle was a combination of an automatic rifle, a light machine gun and a grenade launcher for shooting rifle grenades. At the same time, unlike many other systems of small arms, the main option, remaining unchanged, could perform all three functions. During the tests, some changes were made to the design. In fact, “Galil” has become a modernized version of the Finnish model of the Kalashnikov m / 62, and in addition to the “highlights” inherent in the original prototype, it incorporated parts and parts of many other samples: 35-charging magazine - from the experienced American automatic rifle Stouner-63; folding metal frame butt - in the Belgian FN FAL mod. 50-63 for paratroopers; the barrel with a slotted flame arrester - from the American M16A1. In addition, the first samples of “Galil” used the Kalashnikov barrel boxes m / 62 made by the Finnish state arsenal Valmet Oy in the city of Jyväskylä.



Already in 1973, the “Galil” entered into service with the Israel Defense Forces, and soon IMI began to produce in Gali’s Ramat Hasharon 5,56 rifles in several versions:

• AR assault rifle (Assault Rifle) with a barrel length of 460 mm, without a bipod and carrying handle;

• assault rifle - ARM machine gun (Assault Rifle Machinegun), with a barrel length of 460 mm, a bipod and carrying handle, used as a light support weapon;

• SAR (Short Assault Rifle) carbine for armored vehicles crews - with a shortened 330 mm barrel and without a carrying handle.

In the ARM version, “Galil” consisted of 104 parts (for comparison, the American M16A1 has 162 parts, the Soviet AKM - 95). With incomplete disassembly for cleaning and lubrication, the rifle was disassembled into six knots.

The automatics of the Galil assault rifle has a classic AK layout with a top gas engine and works on the principle of using the energy of a portion of the powder gases discharged through a hole in the barrel wall and acting on the gas piston of the bolt. The “trademark” of Kalashnikov’s weapons and the samples created at its base remains the locking of the barrel bore with two lugs of the bolt turning around its longitudinal axis. In "Galil" the bolt is also activated by a slide frame, when its leading projection interacts with its figured notch. At the same time, the bolt carrier, at the end of its roll, turns the bolt to the right, winding its fighting projections beyond the fighting stops of the receiver and locking the barrel bore, and at the beginning of the rollback it unlocks it, turning the bolt to the left and disengaging it from the receiver.



Of the features inherent in all Kalashnikov weapons (which allowed Galil to outrun potential rivals), the successful solution of the locking assembly with an increased shoulder of the bolt, created in a single moving system with a bolt-shaped longitudinal sliding bolt combined with a rod, was retained. gas piston and serving as the leading link of automation. Setting the direction of movement of the moving parts (by means of the gas piston and the return mechanism), the frame perceives the vast majority of dynamic loads, practically excluding delays in firing due to contamination of the weapon. This design has significantly increased the reliability and dependability of the automation in any operating conditions, which was one of the main requirements for the main theater of combat operations of the Israeli armed forces - with the prevalence of sand and desert areas. Following MT Kalashnikov, the Israeli gunsmiths embodied in Galil one of the most important features of the AK machine gun: a preliminary, in the radial direction, shift of the cartridge case after the shot prior to its extraction from the chamber. When going back to the length of the free stroke, the slide frame only turned the bolt to the left, without moving it in the axial direction. At the same time, the barrel bore continued to remain locked, and the sleeve was rotated in the chamber with the bolt. This made it possible, firstly, to prevent rupture of the liner, due to the discharge of residual pressure in the chamber, and secondly, even with severe contamination of the chamber, to extract defamed or burnt liners.



It should be noted that this method of locking the bolt by turning was previously very often used in various samples of non-automatic weapons, but only in the Kalashnikov design, this scheme allowed us to obtain not only a very short locking assembly with simple and reliable mechanisms of functioning, but also rationally distribute the load on the locking assembly in moment of shot, which, in turn, significantly reduced the mass of the bolt, and hence the weight and size characteristics of the weapon itself.

Extraction of spent cartridges in the “Galil” (right through the window of the receiver) was provided by a spring-loaded ejector installed in the gate and a rigid reflector fixed in the receiver. Throughout the whole construction, it was possible to reduce to the limit the number and area of ​​rubbing surfaces, which again increased the reliability of its work in the most difficult conditions. The impact mechanism “Galil” is of the hammer type. The trigger mechanism is designed for maintaining single and automatic fire.









The flag interpreter of fire, like in the Kalashnikov machine gun, performs several functions: switches fire modes from single to automatic, turns on the fuse, and also closes the slot of the reloading handle, protecting the receiver from dust and dirt. In this position, the translator-fuse allows only a small, a few millimeters, lead of the bolt carrier with the bolt back. This allows you to inspect the chamber and, at the same time, does not lead to the triggering of a combat platoon. The interpreter-fuse box is displayed on both sides of the receiver, and is located on the left side above the pistol grip; as a result, unlike AK, it can also be controlled by the thumb of the right hand, without its detachment from the handle.

Another difference between the Israeli rifle and the "Kalashnikov" is the original changes in the design of the vapor system, including the presence of holes (6 pieces) in the gas piston head. Through these openings, a portion of the powder gases penetrates the inside of the receiver, blowing off the powder, dust and dirt from the moving parts. In the gas pipe nozzle there are holes for discharge of residual powder gases. The reloading handle (upward curved) and the magazine's latch are installed so that it is convenient to use them on either side of the rifle, which is important for left-handed soldiers (which, according to statistics, in the Israeli army are more than 13%).

The Galil rifle has open sights, consisting of a front sight and reversing dioptric sight, with 300 and 500 m firing range settings. The location of the sight on the back of the receiver cover (and not on the sight block, like in the Soviet prototype) made it possible to increase the Israeli specimen aiming line length up to 475 mm (against mm 378 at AKM assault rifle).

The sight is equipped with a device for shooting at night and in conditions of limited visibility. It is a folding rear sight and front sight with luminous tritium points. Similar illumination allows to conduct aimed shooting at flares in the dark at ranges up to 100 m.

Placing the base of the front sight on the gas chamber makes it possible to use the muzzle brake-flame arrester mounted on the barrel as a guide for firing rifle anti-personnel, signal and lighting grenades. Along with this, from Galil it is possible to shoot with Belgian anti-tank 75-mm rifle grenades “Energy” HEAT-RFL-73N with an effective firing range of 150 – 200 and armor to 275 mm. Before shooting a grenade is worn directly on the flame arrester. 1973 to 1980 rifles were equipped with slit flame arresters, which were then replaced by an improved, perforated type. Aiming is performed using a plastic frame sight, which was attached to each grenade. Grenades are shot by special blank cartridges from the 12-charging magazine. Since the end of 1970's. They began to use new grenades, which can also be fired with live ammunition. They are equipped with a special device called a bullet trap.

At the customer’s choice, the Galil rifle can be equipped with both a permanent wooden butt and a metal one folding to the right along the receiver - without interfering with either the reloading and control of the translator safety box or the mounting on the left side of the receiver for an optical or night sight . The design of the butt is thought out very well. And in the folded and folded position, the metal butt is securely fixed by a spring-loaded locking mechanism.



Initially, the “Galil” had a wooden forearm, subsequently replaced by a more practical heat-resistant plastic. Pistol grip fire control - plastic. On a standard ARM rifle mounted folding handle for carrying. In addition, in the front of the trunk, in the area of ​​the gas chamber, a metal multifunctional two-legged bipod (with a mass of 250 g) is fixed, retracting in the stowed position in the groove under the forearm. On her coulters, there are protrusions-poloski, facilitating the connection of the store at night "to the touch" with the bipod folded. The bipod also has a wire cutting device that also serves to open beer bottles. And this is not a luxury, but a sober account of the specifics of the Middle Eastern climate, when heat and thirst become a constant companion of the Israeli soldier, in the mass accustomed to "Western" comfort. In Soviet times, we paid special attention to this detail, as one of the incarnations of "Zionist military propaganda" with its triune formula "kill, drink, walk" ... Meanwhile, the "bottle opener" not only facilitates the service of the fighter, but also ensures the safety of the store and other parts of weapons, which, as a rule, are still used by soldiers for these purposes. The rifle is completed with box-shaped detachable magazines with a capacity of 35 (in the form of an assault rifle) and 50 ammunition (for a light machine gun), as well as 12 ammunition - for firing rifle grenades.

The peculiarities of the Israeli "Galil" include a clearly outdated manufacturing technology of the receiver from a solid-forged billet, followed by milling; This is due to IMI’s purchase of equipment, drawings and accessories for the production of AK machines from the Finnish arsenal of Valmet Oy. But although almost all the leading arms firms of the world had by then transferred to advanced technologies using die-welded structures, Israeli gunsmiths preferred to retain the traditional methods of machining metal processing that provided their weapons with greater strength and reliability, despite a certain increase in its mass and higher production costs. In particular, the combat stops and the Galil reflector were made directly with a milled receiver.

The Israeli rifle was very robust (10 000 shots), its construction was robust and reliable (after 240 shots, the chamber temperature exceeded 90 ° C, but the cartridge didn’t self-ignite), which was greatly facilitated by the milled heat-absorbing receiver. “Galil”, like the Kalashnikov assault rifle, works reliably in the temperature range from -40 to + 60 ° С, at 100% humidity and snowfall, with full dusting and lack of weapon care. However, in the latter case, the facts of the shutter not closing were noted, which had to be sent to the most forward position manually. With the fall of the rifle, strong shaking and vibration, as well as when hitting the obstacles, spontaneous shots were not observed.
The relatively large mass of the rifle (with the 35 magazine loaded with ammunition - 4,3 kg), the low rate of fire (650 rds / min), the thoughtful design of the butt and its strong attachment to the receiver, along with the presence of a bipod, provided this weapon with good accuracy in tracking fire bursts of various lengths.

The Galil total ammunition consists of 392 cartridges, which, for example, can be loaded into two 50 magazines, eight 35 cartridges and one 12 ammunition (for comparison: the Kalashnikov assault rifle ammunition, 300 ammo, equipped with four store, located directly at the machine, the rest - in the supporting structures of various levels). The ammunition "Galil" also includes four fragmentation rifle grenades.

As a rule, the Galil assault rifles intended for the Israel Defense Forces had a stamp on the left side of the receiver, above the pistol grip (crossed sword and olive branch, inscribed in the Star of David) and marking in Hebrew, and for export - in English . Since the beginning of the 1980-x rifles have received a new marking of the IMI concern (now the weapons group TAAS) - the sword and olive branch, superimposed on the gear.





In 1980's the Israeli Defense Forces adopted another version of the “Galil” - a lightweight sniper 5,56-mm rifle Mk.1, equipped with a mount for mounting optical or night sights, as well as a bipod.
At the end of the 1990-x, a new, very successful model of “Galil” appeared - a small-sized automatic machine MAR (Mini Assault Rifle) - an analog of the Soviet shortened automatic machine AKS-74U. The new version was intended primarily for military support units of the army - telecom operators, drivers of vehicles, etc., as well as for arming special forces and law enforcement. The compactness, along with the powerful 5,56-mm SS109 low-impulse cartridge, made this weapon truly effective (compared to the favorite ultrasound machine guns) as a means of combat at short distances to 200 – 300 m. It differs from its predecessors, in addition to the small length, lack of a bipod, carrying handle and a new plastic forearm, in front of which there is a projection, not letting the hand arrow slip forward, which could lead to injury, given the proximity of the muzzle of the trunk. The MAR machine can be equipped with a silencer, a laser designator mounted in the forearm, as well as various options for optical and night sights.

The great opportunities inherent in the design of the Kalashnikov assault rifle constantly encouraged Israeli gunsmiths to fully utilize its potential. Since 1975, IMI has mastered the production of several more versions of its 5,56-mm rifle “Galil” - AR, ARM and SAR assault rifles under the NATO SS77 rifle-and-machine gun cartridge (7,62 × 51 mm). From their small-caliber counterparts, they differed in a hardened receiver, an elongated and weighted barrel, on which there was no tide for the bayonet, and a box-shaped 25-charging magazine. New rifles were intended mainly for export.



In 1982, the city of Israel, Galili-Blashnikov, in close collaboration with the Israeli Ministry of Defense, developed a new 7,62-mm sniper self-loading rifle “Galil” SASR based on the ARM model. The new version has a trigger mechanism, designed only for a single fire, with adjustable descent effort. In addition, it differs from the prototype with an elongated (508 mm) and weighted barrel with a powerful muzzle brake-compensator, a folding wooden butt, as well as an 25-charging detachable box magazine. Muzzle brake compensator can be replaced by a device that, using our terminology, can be called a tactical silencer. Not being able to drown out the sound of a shot with the powerful 7,62 × 51 mm chuck, it nevertheless can greatly weaken it (in our case, such devices are also called PBS). The SASR rifle, unlike its prototype, has a fry fixed not to the barrel, but to the front of the receiver, which improved its accuracy characteristics. On the left side of the receiver on a special bracket can be installed as a telescopic sight Nimrod 6 × 40, and night IR sights.

The Galil 7,62-mm sniper rifle possesses high combat characteristics: when fired at a single fire at a range of 300, the dispersion width is 120 – 150 mm, and at a range of 600 m - 300 mm. The SASR rifle comes in a special transportation case. It includes a telescopic sight with light filters, a portable belt, a belt loop for a second hand, two spare magazines and accessories for cleaning a weapon (a pencil case and a ramrod).



In 1987, another self-loading variant of the Galil 7,62 rifle mod. AR, with an elongated wooden lodge, which is used under the name "Hadar II" as a police weapon. It is possible to install a muzzle attachment for shooting rubber bullets, as well as for shooting grenades with tear gas.

Currently, the Galil assault rifles of all modifications are in service with the Israeli army and law enforcement special forces. Nevertheless, “Galil” did not become the main model of small arms in the Israeli armed forces, since not more than a quarter of all soldiers are armed with them. Among other factors, this is explained by the quite sober and realistic policy of the country's leadership, which, in order to reduce the cost of defense programs, does not seek to purchase only its own, albeit good, but expensive weapon, when you can get some assistance from the American “big brother” Worst rifles М16А1, but almost half the price - for 100 – 120 dollars. At the same time, the presence of a small release of their weapons, constantly maintained at a certain level, reliably guarantees the possibility of their wide deployment in case of need.

However, there is also a commercial factor. If in Israel itself “Galilas” are far from being armed with all soldiers, then the businessmen of the country with their active policies contributed to the wide distribution of these weapons to many potential as well as real theaters of operations. “Galili” with the IMI brand name is now widely used in almost all “hot spots”, starting with South Africa and ending with Latin America. Due to the high service and combat qualities of these weapons, not only the military of many states paid attention to it. "Galil" in automatic and self-loading versions in both calibers of steel in large quantities come into commercial sales in America and Western Europe, with 5,56 mm rifles being produced both in the standard Israeli version, in increments of 305 mm rifling (chambered M193), and in the version under the NATO NATO 5,56-mm SS109 cartridge with 178 mm rifling pitch, chrome-plated bore and chamber.

With 1978, the South African firm Lyttleton Engineering Works Pty (now Vector Engineering) in Pretoria began manufacturing the 5,56-mm R4 assault rifle, an almost exact copy of the Galil ARM, under license. Minor differences from the Israeli prototype are mainly due to the climatic conditions of South Africa, including high humidity and extreme heat. In the production of the R4 rifle, the use of modern construction materials was significantly expanded: the foregrip and pistol grip of the fire control, as well as the butt were made of impact-resistant plastic. In addition, the "Yuarovsky" rifles differed elongated butt, since the soldiers of the South African army on average are larger than the Israeli. On the trunk there was no tide for the bayonet. Subsequently, Lyttleton Engineering mastered the production of several more new models of this weapon: in 1987, the 5,56-mm R5 carbine (“Galil” SAR) used for arming the Air Force and South African Marine Corps, and from the middle of the 1990-x - 5,56-mm automatic Carabiner (compact machine) R6 Compact (another analogue 5,45-mm AKS-74U), adopted for arming the crews of armored vehicles, airborne units, etc.

In 1979, the Dutch firm Nederlandische Waapenen Munitiefabriek de Kruithoorn BV, under IMI license, mastered the production of SAR model Galil assault rifles under the symbol MN1, as well as the ARM Galil machine gun.

International cooperation of gunsmiths also contributed to the production of “Galilov”: Rheinmetall International SA together with the Swedish company Forenade Fabriksverken AS (FFV) mastered at the beginning of the 1980-s. for commercial sale the manufacture of the FFV 890 rifle and the FFV 890C carbine. The use in the Swedish rifles of a heavier bullet of the new 5,56-mm cartridge SS109 (in the US Army - the M855 index) required an increase in the steepness of the groove pitch from 305 to 178 mm. In addition, the operating conditions of weapons in Northern Europe have caused some changes in the design in order to improve the reliability of the moving parts of automation (improved system for removal of powder gases from the barrel); improved ergonomics (a barrel pad with ventilation holes was installed, completely covering the gas tube, and the trigger guard was extended for easy shooting in winter with gloves). These samples were offered to arm the Swedish army, but preference was given to the Belgian rifle FNC.

In Italy, in the middle of the 1980, Vincenzo Bernardelli SpA created the X5,56 family of CP556 weapons on the basis of the Israeli Galil assault rifle, but, like in Sweden, these “didn't go”: the Italians adopted another rifle - “Beretta” »AR-70 / 90.

Currently, the Israeli Galil rifle is armed with armies of 15 states, including Bolivia, Botswana, Honduras, Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo), Nicaragua, Paraguay, Chile, and most recently - Estonia.
260 comments
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  1. +6
    7 March 2015 08: 03
    Masters they are on butts! This cannot be taken away.
    1. scheronier
      +8
      7 March 2015 09: 11
      Already 10 years as Galil withdrawn from service. I personally did not like him and happily switched to M-16. It was heavy and inaccurate. it was not possible to shoot him, because the aiming device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot. But I have colleagues in the reservist service who still miss Galil. Here Tavor is a really worthy machine
      1. +13
        7 March 2015 09: 58
        Quote: Scheronier
        Already 10 years as Galil withdrawn from service. I personally did not like him and happily switched to M-16. It was heavy and inaccurate. it was not possible to shoot him, because the aiming device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot. But I have colleagues in the reservist service who still miss Galil. Here Tavor is a really worthy machine

        Well, many tankers today consider "Galil" the best model for arming tank crews, due to their indestructibility. And then Galil ACE appeared for a couple of three years before it was not known how the fate of Tavor would have developed.
        1. Robespierre9
          +4
          7 March 2015 11: 40
          Che for a clone of Pindad SS2? laughing
        2. 0
          13 March 2015 17: 42
          Receiving an assault rifle in miluim (Sborni), a shooting in the shooting range is always carried out. I went with him to Batash for 20 years and did 4 times in Lebanon.
      2. +4
        7 March 2015 12: 08
        Quote: Scheronier
        Already 10 years as Galil withdrawn from service. I personally did not like him and happily switched to M-16. It was heavy and inaccurate. it was not possible to shoot him, because the aiming device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot. But I have colleagues in the reservist service who still miss Galil. Here Tavor is a really worthy machine

        It is worth noting that Galil to a large extent was sharpened by the first collimators
      3. +4
        7 March 2015 13: 55
        Quote: Scheronier
        I personally did not love him and gladly switched to the M-16

        Well, and how is this joy in the desert? Tavor, this is a completely different matter!
        1. +1
          7 March 2015 14: 40
          Quote: Bayonet
          Well, and how is this joy in the desert? Tavor, this is a completely different matter!

          M-just a brilliant machine. And Israel is not that desert as you imagine it. That is completely
          1. Robespierre9
            +3
            7 March 2015 14: 51
            What is there? Humus laughing, not? Oh, I forgot - the sea is dead.
            1. 0
              7 March 2015 15: 27
              Quote: Robespierre9
              What is there? Humus, no? Oh, I forgot - the sea is dead.

              No, just your ignorance 8)
              1. Robespierre9
                +1
                7 March 2015 15: 43
                And what is "8)" - your illiteracy? wink
            2. 0
              7 March 2015 17: 56
              Quote: Robespierre9
              What is there? Humus, no? Oh, I forgot - the sea is dead.

              Israel has 19 geographical zones.
              1. Robespierre9
                +2
                7 March 2015 18: 15
                Yeah? In the desert even more. laughing
                1. +1
                  7 March 2015 18: 46
                  hehe hehe. Funny laughing
              2. MMX
                +10
                7 March 2015 21: 21
                Israel has 19 geographical areas

                What do you say, straight 19 geographical zones? However, this is not at all surprising, because Israel is one of the largest countries in the world ...
                1. anomalocaris
                  +4
                  8 March 2015 06: 45
                  What do you say, straight 19 geographical zones? However, this is not at all surprising, because Israel is one of the largest countries in the world ...

                  Not the largest, but one of the countries with extremely difficult terrain ...
                  1. MMX
                    +1
                    9 March 2015 07: 21
                    Mostly a desert interspersed with mountains, plains and coasts.
                    1. -2
                      9 March 2015 12: 20
                      Quote: MMX
                      Mostly a desert interspersed with mountains, plains and coasts.

                      Honestly what? 8)
          2. 0
            8 March 2015 06: 53
            Quote: Pimply
            And Israel is not that desert as you imagine it.

            Well, not in the sense that Israel is a desert, but there is enough sand and dust, which M-k does not like very much.
            1. 0
              8 March 2015 10: 42
              Quote: Bayonet
              Well, not in the sense that Israel is a desert, but there is enough sand and dust, which M-k does not like very much.

              Not as much as they like to talk about it
              1. +1
                8 March 2015 21: 47
                Quote: Pimply
                Not as much as they like to talk about it

                Well, for example, the Negev desert or Maktesh Ramon ... So all the same, how about the reliability of M-ki in such conditions?
                1. 0
                  9 March 2015 12: 22
                  Quote: Bayonet
                  Well, for example, the Negev desert or Maktesh Ramon ... So all the same, how about the reliability of M-ki in such conditions?

                  Yes, more than. Negev and Ramon crater - this is not sand, these are stones. To start.
                  And the effect of fine dust on M-ki, especially on modern versions, is greatly exaggerated. To put it mildly
                  1. -1
                    9 March 2015 14: 02
                    Ok, thanks for the info. It's just that in our press it is always described as very unreliable.
                2. Robespierre9
                  +1
                  9 March 2015 14: 10
                  You don't even have to ask - they will honestly not answer, "they lie to the point of madness," wriggle as much as they can, etc., but they will not say the truth, "east", as it says in the Bible.
      4. -2
        7 March 2015 17: 55
        Quote: Scheronier
        I personally did not like him and happily switched to the M-16. It was heavy and inaccurate. it was not possible to shoot him, because the aiming device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot.

        100%
      5. +4
        7 March 2015 19: 02
        Why was the "sighting device" fixed on the box? Extend the aiming line? We knew about this problem, so such a mistake was not made even at AKS.
        1. 0
          7 March 2015 21: 50
          Yeah, it’s just on the AKS-74U that the cross-over sits on the receiver’s lid! laughing Healers, damn it ...
          1. +2
            8 March 2015 04: 25
            I know where the overhead rear sight sits there. Do you remember how the receiver cover is attached to the AKS? So the rear sight is just above this "hinge". Which minimizes mechanical vibrations. Therefore, such a problem as "the sighting device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot" AKSu doesn’t.
            1. 0
              9 March 2015 17: 44
              The rear sight on the "Ksenia" is located almost in the middle of the receiver cover, far from the axis of the hinge, which (hinge), by the way, starts to play relative to the axis of the barrel after hundreds of incomplete disassembly ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. +2
            8 March 2015 06: 59
            Quote: Alexey Lobanov
            Yeah, it’s just on the AKS-74U that the cross-over sits on the receiver’s lid!

            Well yes, there he is!
      6. MMX
        +3
        7 March 2015 20: 58
        Already 10 years as Galil withdrawn from service. I personally did not like him and happily switched to M-16. He was heavy and inaccurate

        That is, it was in vain that the Israeli industry produced Galil, since the machine was bad?
        1. -1
          7 March 2015 21: 07
          Quote: MMX
          Already 10 years as Galil withdrawn from service. I personally did not like him and happily switched to M-16. He was heavy and inaccurate

          That is, it was in vain that the Israeli industry produced Galil, since the machine was bad?

          Why? Are PPSh and PPS bad machines?
      7. +6
        7 March 2015 21: 30
        "It was heavy and inaccurate. It was not possible to shoot it because the sighting device was on the receiver and accordingly changed its position after each shot."

        And when Galil won a serious competition, was he not "tortured" for sighting and accuracy? The myth about stinging Galil wanders from year to year, from site to site ...
        1. +4
          7 March 2015 21: 47
          Quote: Alexey Lobanov


          And when Galil won a serious competition, was he not "tortured" for sighting and accuracy? The myth about stinging Galil wanders from year to year, from site to site ...

          Well, yes, but everyone buys and buys it. All around are dumb.
      8. The comment was deleted.
      9. stalker666
        +1
        8 March 2015 10: 22
        Why is it, Galil, not accurate? Shot from AR, SAR and ARM - very good accuracy at 100 and 150 meters. True, if he was shot before))).
    2. 0
      7 March 2015 12: 09
      Quote: Uruska
      Masters they are on butts! This cannot be taken away.

      Butt there from FN FAL
  2. +3
    7 March 2015 08: 49
    some are not like that. alien, albeit similar.

    Quote: Uruska
    Masters they are on butts! This cannot be taken away.

    yeah. orthopedic.))
    1. +4
      7 March 2015 16: 27
      Quote: gozmosZh
      Quote: Uruska
      Masters they are on butts! This cannot be taken away.
      yeah. orthopedic.))

      Well, why, since they made Galil from Kalash, it means that maybe something, and on the market, many specialists prefer tuning from Israel.
      I watched on TV. Our ensign, in my opinion, came up with a device with optical fiber (a device from doctors) for firing from behind shelters. The Israeli company took his sample, returned it, and quickly carried out its weapon, which could fire from around the corner, on the principle of our ensign. There I remember another fighter with AKA standing, from the eye the tube goes to the machine gun and it shoots, and without aiming like with ordinary weapons. Ours did not give money for the further development of this device. As always...
      1. -3
        7 March 2015 17: 47
        Quote: Sirocco
        I watched on TV. Our ensign, in my opinion, came up with a device with optical fiber (a device from doctors) for firing from behind shelters. The Israeli company took his sample, returned it, and quickly carried out its weapon, which could fire from around the corner, on the principle of our ensign. There I remember another fighter with AKA standing, from the eye the tube goes to the machine gun and it shoots, and without aiming like with ordinary weapons. Ours did not give money for the further development of this device. As always...

        Do not read Soviet newspapers at breakfast (c) Corner Shot is more than an independent invention, based on a much older idea, including that embodied by Kalashnikov
        1. Robespierre9
          +4
          7 March 2015 18: 18
          Che for an idea, huh? Ahh, the gun on the stick !!! wassat
          1. -1
            7 March 2015 18: 29
            Quote: Robespierre9
            e for the idea, huh? Ahh, the gun on the stick !!!

            The wheel is also just a curved board
            1. Robespierre9
              +3
              7 March 2015 20: 35
              The wheel is a board, it’s like, but I didn’t know !! laughing

              Show the gun on a stick, or "catch up" yourself?
        2. +1
          7 March 2015 18: 47
          What about elephants? Elephants then, huh?
        3. +2
          8 March 2015 10: 56
          Quote: Pimply
          Do not read Soviet newspapers at breakfast

          I can tell you the same thing, read less, and listen to your propaganda less. And then jump as on the Ukrainian Maidan.
          1. 0
            8 March 2015 11: 19
            Quote: Sirocco
            I can tell you the same thing, read less, and listen to your propaganda less. And then jump as on the Ukrainian Maidan.
            What exactly is "your propaganda"?
            1. Robespierre9
              +1
              8 March 2015 13: 34
              Ears need less to eat, on holidays, then there will be no cannibalism among you.
      2. Robespierre9
        0
        7 March 2015 22: 13
        Yes, they know how, they say all the patents in such a scheme steal - first they wrap it up, and then they patent, or they slow it down, and they try first - they are patent thieves. A. Einstein was their first. wassat
      3. 0
        8 March 2015 01: 38
        "CornerShot".
  3. +4
    7 March 2015 08: 54
    The cunning ones quite well "mastered" the ideas of Kalashnikov and released a very decent weapon. They did it a little expensive, but the quality is excellent.
    1. +12
      7 March 2015 09: 10
      A little expensive due to the use of a milled receiver, the license for which was received from the Finns by Israel, well, because the quality is excellent. And the better the goods are made (small arms, and not only weapons, including), the more expensive it is - it is proved by the Swiss.
      And I read this article for a long time, it turned out that I refreshed it in my memory. And I immediately remembered another Israeli weapon "masterpiece" - the Uzi submachine gun, which turned out to be too heavy for post-war small arms chambered for a pistol cartridge only because, not having good, high-quality weapon steel, the Jews were forced to use what they had under hand and in order to maintain acceptable reliability and quality of the weapon, they were forced to increase the thickness of the walls of the receiver and other parts, which naturally entailed an increase in weight. Here's another weapon "legend".
      Interestingly, how is the situation with the use of "Galil", "Uzi" and AK now in the IDF?
      I have the honor.
      1. scheronier
        +6
        7 March 2015 09: 20
        Galil, ultrasound and AK have long been withdrawn from service. Infantry units rearmament on Tavor, the rest have M-16 and M-4
        1. +12
          7 March 2015 09: 57
          Quote: Scheronier
          Galil, ultrasound and AK have long been withdrawn from service. Infantry units rearmament on Tavor, the rest have M-16 and M-4

          AK and now armed with someone in Tsakhal ...
          1. +7
            7 March 2015 10: 02
            Quote: professor
            AK and now armed with someone in Tsakhal ...

            If only among special forces who operate on enemy territory. In addition, from the AKM under 7,62X39 there is the possibility of firing subsonic cartridges with PBS.
          2. 0
            7 March 2015 20: 55
            Oh how! - AKS-74 - I really didn’t know that we were sending complexes under 5,45 to the Palestinians as humanitarian aid.
            1. +1
              8 March 2015 15: 25
              Quote: gross kaput
              Oh how! - AKS-74 - I really didn’t know that we were sending complexes under 5,45 to the Palestinians as humanitarian aid.

              um ... we are talking about AKM with PBS, which is 7,62
              1. +4
                8 March 2015 21: 08
                I had in mind the photo posted by the professor - take a closer look - in the hands of the soldier is the AKS-74, since Israel did not buy them, it is probably trophy and most likely Palestinian.
        2. +5
          7 March 2015 10: 11
          scheronier-If the M-16 were so good, the galil would not be developed, you think the Warmia fools are sitting, and the latest galil models that are delivered to Vietnam are no worse than the brands
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        7 March 2015 12: 15
        Quote: Alexander72
        Interestingly, how is the situation with the use of "Galil", "Uzi" and AK now in the IDF?

        Galil removed from service, Uzi occasionally found in the rear. AK is used in certain parts for certain operations. 8))
  4. +6
    7 March 2015 08: 57
    overall dimensions, providing free movement of the sample through the landing hatch of the Merkava Mk.1 tank, in which it was supposed to have a landing compartment for 10 fully equipped infantrymen.

    When the rifle was being developed, the "Merkava" was not even in my dreams.

    The peculiarities of the Israeli "Galil" include a clearly outdated manufacturing technology of the receiver from a solid-forged billet, followed by milling; This is due to IMI’s purchase of equipment, drawings and accessories for the production of AK machines from the Finnish arsenal of Valmet Oy. But although almost all the leading arms firms of the world had by then transferred to advanced technologies using die-welded structures, Israeli gunsmiths preferred to retain the traditional methods of machining metal processing that provided their weapons with greater strength and reliability, despite a certain increase in its mass and higher production costs. In particular, the combat stops and the Galil reflector were made directly with a milled receiver.

    This is due to the fact that in mass production on CNC machines, the cost is comparable to stamping and welding with much better quality.

    Currently, the Israeli Galil rifle is armed with armies of 15 states, including Bolivia, Botswana, Honduras, Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo), Nicaragua, Paraguay, Chile, and most recently - Estonia.

    It should be noted that Vietnam has recently purchased a Galileo plant.
    1. +12
      7 March 2015 10: 14
      Quote: professor
      This is due to the fact that in mass production on CNC machines, the cost is comparable to stamping and welding with much better quality.

      Have you forgotten about the cost of the spent metal? The box is cut from a single piece of metal weighing 8 kg. Or has Israel become a leading steel power? And Galil turned out to be more expensive than the same M16.

      Quote: professor
      It should be noted that Vietnam has recently purchased a Galileo plant.

      Just forgot to mention, the factory is not a full cycle, in other words, an ordinary screwdriver. All major parts will be ordered from Israel. Yes, I forgot, Paraguay did not adopt Galil, so the information in the article is erroneous
      1. 0
        7 March 2015 10: 41
        Quote: Timeout
        Have you forgotten about the cost of the spent metal? The box is cut from a single piece of metal weighing 8 kg. Or has Israel become a leading steel power?

        No, I forgot. Vtorchermet is operating at full capacity.

        Quote: Timeout
        Just forgot to mention, the factory is not a full cycle, in other words, an ordinary screwdriver.

        Where is the droushka?

        By the way, Kalashnikov lost the tender.
        1. Rex
          +3
          7 March 2015 11: 18
          Personally, he was more surprised that his Chinese lost.
          Our at least 2 tenders were breaking the price above competitors
          1. Robespierre9
            +1
            7 March 2015 22: 00
            Kalash is "fashionable" so ours can break prices - they will still find someone to buy. First you work for the image, then the image works for you, everything is simple. Jews need to learn a little more, and not sell whatever is horrible in the hope of instant profit. wink
            1. -2
              8 March 2015 06: 11
              Quote: Robespierre9
              Kalash is "fashionable" so ours can break prices - they will still find someone to buy. First you work for the image, then the image works for you, everything is simple. Jews need to learn a little more, and not sell whatever is horrible in the hope of instant profit.

              The only really large contract outside the former republics of the USSR was with Venezuela.
        2. Robespierre9
          -1
          7 March 2015 22: 07
          Not lost, narrow-eyed simply not worthy, plus bribery, etc.
      2. anomalocaris
        +3
        7 March 2015 10: 51
        Or has Israel become a leading steel power?

        Yes. The steel industry of the country under the Mogendavid is very developed.
      3. -5
        7 March 2015 12: 26
        Quote: Timeout
        Yes, I forgot, Paraguay did not adopt Galil, so the information in the article is erroneous

        I took it. Not to the army, but to the National Police
        1. +6
          7 March 2015 15: 06
          Quote: Pimply
          National Police


          1. A soldier of the paramilitary police.

          2. Asuncion Police Department fighters

          3. Police special forces

          And not a single Galil.
          1. 0
            8 March 2015 12: 51
            Quote: Timeout
            And not a single Galil.


            2 / 01 / 2010 (Infodefensa.com) Asunción - El Gobierno de Fernando Lugo anunció la compra urgente a Colombia de 450 fusiles de tecnología israelí y 233.000 cartuchos de munición por 2.600runs del goules goules Ejército del Pueblo Paraguayo (EPP) que se mantiene operativa en el norte del país. Los fusiles son fabricados por la pública INDUMIL bajo licencia.
      4. 0
        7 March 2015 12: 30
        Quote: Timeout
        Or has Israel become a leading steel power?


        According to the World Steel Association (WSA), over the past 15 years, Israel has consistently smelted from 280 thousand to 300 thousand tons of steel per year, and in 2013, about 300 thousand tons of metal was produced.
        Steel in Israel is smelted in electric arc furnaces (EAFs) from local scrap metal: iron ore and reduced iron (DRI / HBI) are not used as raw materials, since the country does not have the capacity to produce these materials. In addition to the consumption of scrap in local EAFs, Israel also sends it for export, mainly to Turkey, being today a net exporter. According to experts of Metal Bulletin, last year Israel exported 300 thousand tons of this raw material. In the future, this indicator is projected to grow and by 2019 can reach 340-350 thousand tons. The consumption of scrap in Israel itself over the next four years will remain at the level of 400-410 thousand tons per year.
        1. Robespierre9
          +8
          7 March 2015 14: 17
          Some kind of nonsense, like metal can be endless, even in the form of scrap metal .. The usual import is, do not tell my slippers.
          1. anomalocaris
            +3
            7 March 2015 14: 38
            There is enough scrap metal there. Since Soviet times. Unfortunately, we have supplied our Arab "brothers" with so much equipment that Israeli metallurgy will last for more than one year.
            But they really import pig iron.
          2. +1
            7 March 2015 14: 42
            Quote: Robespierre9
            Some kind of nonsense, like metal can be endless, even in the form of scrap metal .. The usual import is, do not tell my slippers.

            Because the import of finished products from other countries has not been canceled
            1. Robespierre9
              +2
              7 March 2015 16: 09
              So finished products or raw materials wink ? Or do you buy such products which immediately then goes to scrap metal - then it is not legal (according to the leftist schemes - bribery, deceit, etc.), because lower than the cost of metal no one will ever sell you scrap metal (unless for a bribe somewhere in Uganda)
              1. 0
                7 March 2015 17: 52
                Quote: Robespierre9
                So finished products or raw materials? Or do you buy such products which immediately then goes to scrap metal - then it is not legal (according to the leftist schemes - bribery, deceit, etc.), because lower than the cost of metal no one will ever sell you scrap metal (unless for a bribe somewhere in Uganda)

                Respected. Where do you think old cars, equipment, etc. go?
                1. Robespierre9
                  0
                  7 March 2015 18: 24
                  Moishe bought it? wink
                  1. 0
                    7 March 2015 18: 55
                    Quote: Robespierre9
                    Moishe bought it?

                    You see, trolling is certainly cool, but are you serious? 8)
                    1. Robespierre9
                      -1
                      7 March 2015 21: 56
                      Don’t be minus, so your troll team wink
                      1. -1
                        8 March 2015 06: 12
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Don’t be minus, so your troll team

                        My friend, do you really think that I set a minus? 8) Sense?
                      2. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        8 March 2015 13: 00
                        Dear friend, it's so easy to see who your "friend" is and how many of them are here, do not pretend to be stupid. )))
                      3. 0
                        8 March 2015 13: 15
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Dear friend, it's so easy to see who your "friend" is and how many of them are here, do not pretend to be stupid. )))

                        You see, my friend, trolling, to be really interesting, must be smart. And for this you need to read at least occasionally. Get started, advice
                      4. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        8 March 2015 20: 21
                        Do you want to measure it?
                      5. 0
                        9 March 2015 12: 23
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Do you want to measure it?

                        Well, am I a small child or something? 8) You’re here to run, play Easter cakes, child 8)))
                      6. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 14: 28
                        Hmm, the level of the tenth grade, at the end of sim so far ..
        2. +2
          7 March 2015 20: 42
          Quote: Pimply
          The consumption of scrap in Israel itself over the next four years will remain at the level of about 400-410 thousand tons per year.

          But I, without knowing, assumed the existence of my own "electric steel" in Israel (and the very cycle of water consumption was probably introduced, am I wrong?) in Obninsk), logically, the country needs one or two nuclear power plants with two reactors each and maybe there is an atomic desalination plant, is there? Even if there are 6-8 TPP gas-fuel oil-coal? Gentlemen, Israelis, what is right, what is wrong?
          I continue to clairvoyance in Somalia, I didn’t look specifically, there is at least one TPP, at least one asphalt and one concrete plant, as well as at least one mobile operator laughing
    2. -1
      7 March 2015 12: 20
      Quote: professor
      It should be noted that Vietnam has recently purchased a Galileo plant.

      Not only Vietnam. But this is a separate conversation about Galil Ace. Which, by the way, also appeared in Ukraine, where it is produced by the Fort under license.
      1. +8
        7 March 2015 14: 08
        Quote: Pimply
        But this is a separate conversation about Galil Ace. Which, by the way, also appeared in Ukraine, where it is produced by the Fort under license.

        Another confirmed that Israel is arming the Ukrainian junta.
        1. 0
          7 March 2015 14: 43
          Quote: quilted jacket
          Another confirmed that Israel is arming the Ukrainian junta.

          Bravo. If the guys from ISIS have AK and Strela, then Russia is arming terrorists? 8)
          1. Robespierre9
            +7
            7 March 2015 14: 58
            Do not distort, because ISIS Russia definitely has nothing but image losses for its weapons, and here - direct export, these are completely different things, do not you think wink ?
            1. 0
              7 March 2015 15: 16
              Quote: Robespierre9
              Do not distort, because ISIS Russia definitely has nothing but image losses for its weapons, and here - direct export, these are completely different things, do not you think wink ?

              Export? For the especially lazy.
              http://www.fort.vn.ua/
              1. Robespierre9
                +2
                7 March 2015 15: 45
                Well, the license doesn’t matter, the money is the same as for export, most likely wink
                1. +4
                  7 March 2015 19: 12
                  Unfortunately, the government and the president of Ukraine are recognized by the "world community". Therefore, everything except weapons of mass destruction can be delivered there. Here Israel has nothing to show. And "Tavors" will soon fall to the militia.
                  1. +9
                    7 March 2015 19: 17
                    Quote: Hell Angel
                    And "Tavors" will soon fall to the militia.

                    and after some time they will be thrown into the landfill. Wang.
                    1. 0
                      8 March 2015 04: 54
                      But why? For example, security units, military police. It shoots, yes, okay.
            2. 0
              7 March 2015 17: 29
              Quote: Robespierre9
              Do not distort, because Russia does not have ISIS except image losses for its weapons, and here - direct export, these are completely different things, do not you think?

              Licensed production is such a thing. Russia, for example, sells weapons to so many enemies of Israel (directly) - that Mama Do not Cry 8) Nevertheless, both countries find common ground and compromise
              1. Robespierre9
                +8
                7 March 2015 18: 30
                The US directly sells weapons to SO many enemies of Israel, that my mother is not bitter, and there is nothing to continue?

                It is important not who the enemy is nominally, but who has a very real confrontation, Fershtein? Well, it's like if you sell the latest earth-moving equipment to Palestine, in addition to hexogen, is it clear?
              2. +2
                8 March 2015 05: 15
                American and Israeli ISIL military advisers arrested in Iraqi Mosul
                We can no longer argue about the supply of weapons. I did not copy the link. Just type in a search engine.
                1. -1
                  8 March 2015 06: 13
                  Quote: Hell Angel
                  Iraqi Mosul arrested US and Israeli military advisers ISIL
                  We can no longer argue about the supply of weapons. I did not copy the link. Just type in a search engine.

                  Ingenious
                2. Robespierre9
                  0
                  8 March 2015 13: 02
                  Quote: Hell Angel
                  American and Israeli ISIL military advisers arrested in Iraqi Mosul


                  Be sure to look, and we’ll type, in spite of all rushnin Rabinovichi am
          2. +8
            7 March 2015 15: 17
            Quote: Pimply
            Bravo. If the guys from ISIS have AK and Strela, then Russia is arming terrorists? 8)

            Don't think a lot right smile
            Well, apparently this is your "level of awareness of reality" in accordance with the propaganda of which you are "pumped up" in your Israel.
            I explain.
            Israel and other "friends of terrorists" allocate money for which they buy weapons of the times of the USSR or even those produced in Russia but delivered to other countries, which are then fought by the bandits.
            And this is what makes it possible for "storytellers" like you to tell different "delusions" that Russia is arming the bandits.
            You gave a license to Ukraine for the production of Tavor and, apparently, Galil (and sniper rifles), which you can revoke (or otherwise affect the fact that their production was "covered"). But apparently you don't need this, you want the war in Ukraine to be eternal, as in the Middle East.
        2. -3
          7 March 2015 15: 03
          Quote: quilted jacket
          Quote: Pimply
          But this is a separate conversation about Galil Ace. Which, by the way, also appeared in Ukraine, where it is produced by the Fort under license.

          Another confirmed that Israel is arming the Ukrainian junta.

          Firstly, you just insulted the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin, who met in Minsk with the president of Ukraine. This is an article by the way.
          Now about the Fort enterprise. It signed an agreement on the production of lenses of Israeli weapons even under Yanukovych, so all claims are against the latter.
          The third. Here is the Corner Shot system created in Israel for special forces. It is in service with two dozen countries, including Russia. So what? What thoughtful conclusions follow from this?
          1. +4
            7 March 2015 15: 31
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            Firstly, you just insulted the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin, who met in Minsk with the president of Ukraine.

            Aron is your Israel is an insult not only to Putin but also to the whole people of Russia by the fact that in Ukraine they kill Russians, including weapons that were produced under the license of your regime.
            This is an article by the way.

            There was another lawyer, homegrown lol
            Now about the Fort enterprise. It signed an agreement on the production of lenses of Israeli weapons even under Yanukovych, so all claims to the latter

            Well, break the license and publicly declare that your state condemns this genocide. No, you will not because this war is beneficial to you.
            Here is the Corner Shot system created in Israel for special forces. It is in service with two dozen countries, including Russia. So what?

            And what do you mean by that?
            1. 0
              7 March 2015 20: 32
              Quote: quilted jacket
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Firstly, you just insulted the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin, who met in Minsk with the president of Ukraine.
              ] Aron is your Israel is an insult not only to Putin but to the whole people of Russia by the fact that in Ukraine they kill Russians, including weapons that were produced under the license of your regime
              .
              Well, yes, and Israeli citizens have been killed for decades from weapons manufactured in the USSR and the Russian Federation, so what? Should we blame Russia or people sending these weapons at us?
              Now about the Fort enterprise. It signed an agreement on the production of lenses of Israeli weapons even under Yanukovych, so all claims to the latter

              Well, break the license and publicly declare that your state condemns this genocide. No, you will not because this war is beneficial to you.
              why on earth? Are sanctions introduced against Ukraine? Not so Russia imposed sanctions against Ukraine? Has the embassy closed there? Stopped the delivery of goods? Introduced a visa regime? So why should Russia quietly trade with Ukraine, and should Israel create image problems for itself?
              Here is the Corner Shot system created in Israel for special forces. It is in service with two dozen countries, including Russia. So what?

              And what do you mean by that?

              That the arms market is a very thin system.
              1. +2
                7 March 2015 20: 53
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Well, yes, and Israeli citizens have been killed for decades from weapons manufactured in the USSR and the Russian Federation, so what? Should we blame Russia or people sending these weapons at us?

                So you are exactly the USSR / Russia and blame this for decades.
                Remember at least your last cries about the supply of missiles to Syria and Iran.
                why on earth? Are sanctions introduced against Ukraine? Not so Russia imposed sanctions against Ukraine? Has the embassy closed there? Stopped the delivery of goods? Introduced a visa regime? So why should Russia quietly trade with Ukraine, and should Israel create image problems for itself?

                You just shouted when you sold weapons to Georgia, with which they killed our soldiers and the civilian population of South Ossetia. Once again confirms that money is ALL for you and you will "hang yourself" for it.
                That the arms market is a very thin system.

                That's right when our S-300 type air defense missiles arrive in Iran or Syria, I will say the same.
                The arms market is a very thin system. lol
              2. +1
                8 March 2015 20: 48
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Well, yes, and Israeli citizens have been killed for decades from weapons produced in the USSR and the Russian Federation

                Or maybe it's a little different?
                1. Robespierre9
                  +1
                  9 March 2015 01: 49
                  This is genocide, according to all facts, stretched out a little in time, the Saudis incite Hamas (or whoever they have there now?) Is actually working into the hands of Israel, because in response to virtually harmless "missile" strikes, Israel demolishes several blocks at a time and kills several thousand in a couple of raids of their aircraft, this is genocide, the most common one is displacement from the territory and murder under various pretexts - the Saudis, the US allies work in one team with Israel as utilizers of the local population.
                  1. -3
                    9 March 2015 10: 43
                    Quote: Robespierre9
                    It's genocide

                    I congratulate you, mister sovramshi. "Harmless" missile strikes (without quotation marks) actually kill people and terrorize the population, and in response they die far from "several thousand in a couple of air raids." You certainly do not have a list of Arab victims, but you are yelling about "genocide" loudly. fool
                    1. Robespierre9
                      +3
                      9 March 2015 14: 39
                      "I congratulate you, mister sovramshi."
                      You are lying, well, I understand that you will prove your position on Palestine, which is called "all the way", but the map shows nothing more than genocide, you are not in a position to challenge this. After the enemy attacks him, they neutralize him, and do not use it as an excuse to seize their own territory, you are doing exactly this, just so, sorry the enemy is "intoxicated" with his own blood and does not understand this in any way, others see everything perfectly, tea is not dumber than some ..

                      During the last raid (when someone was allegedly kidnapped there), according to the UN, over 2000 Palestinians were killed, while "Kasamami" did not kill ANY Jew.

                      Draw conclusions genocide or not.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 17: 36
                        The UN report to you is a list, everything is there, if the corpses do not include names, this does not mean that they are not. The reverse is also true - the attributed names do not confirm real deaths at all, in reality others can be killed.

                        Genocide in the criminal law of Russia is an act that is criminal in accordance with Article 357 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Criminal liability is established for actions aimed at the complete or partial destruction of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such by killing members of this group, causing grievous bodily harm to their children, forcible obstruction of childbearing, forced transfer of children, forced displacement or other creation of living conditions, designed for the physical destruction of members of this group.


                        What does not suit you? There are murders of members of this group, grievous bodily harm - white phosphorus, uranium, and so on - there is, forcible resettlement - there is, food and other blockade - there is, wherever you stick, everything turns out to be there.

                        Especially these two:

                        forced relocation from one locality to another;

                        deliberate creation of such living conditions that should lead to the physical destruction of group members.
                      3. -3
                        9 March 2015 19: 46
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        forced relocation from one locality to another;

                        deliberate creation of such living conditions that should lead to the physical destruction of group members.

                        The precious brother of the padded jacket 8) With what pathos do you argue that you do not understand 8) Bravo, encore! Another 8)) The further the funnier 8)))
                      4. +3
                        9 March 2015 19: 56
                        Quote: Pimply
                        The precious brother of a padded jacket

                        A decrypt?
                        Like-minded people _
                      5. -2
                        9 March 2015 20: 22
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        The UN report to you is a list, everything is there, if the corpses do not include names, this does not mean that they are not. The reverse is also true - the attributed names do not confirm real deaths at all, in reality others can be killed.

                        1. No need to "poke" me, in one meadow geese were not grazed. Or dad and mom didn’t teach you good manners?
                        2. The list in the studio, you are our true.

                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        forced relocation from one locality to another;

                        deliberate creation of such living conditions that should lead to the physical destruction of group members.

                        Are you talking about Königsberg or the Kuril Islands?
                      6. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 21: 25
                        I will give you a list, but you will have to pay for it - remove the language from the picture, otherwise the tone is bad, agree?

                        You write about Koenigsberge with Kurilas for the third time, apparently it is very stuck on this ground, I will answer further.
                      7. 0
                        9 March 2015 21: 29
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        I will give you a list, but you will have to pay for it - remove the language from the picture, otherwise the tone is bad, agree?

                        You write about Koenigsberge with Kurilas for the third time, apparently it is very stuck on this ground, I will answer further.

                        I keep my word, no longer feed.

                        PS
                        People like you with "quilted jacket" turn the site into a trash heap.
                      8. Robespierre9
                        +3
                        9 March 2015 22: 14
                        Quote: professor
                        I keep my word, no longer feed.

                        Nobody pulled the language of "Professor" ..

                        http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_04_09_2014.pdf

                        The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) is a United Nations (UN) body formed in December 1991 by General Assembly Resolution 46/182


                        http://www.imemc.org/article/68969

                        The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza issued a report stating that Israeli missiles and shells, fired against the Palestinian population of Gaza since July 8, led to the death of 2145 Palestinians, including 578 children, 263 women, and 102 elderly.


                        By name:

                        http://www.imemc.org/index.php/68429?redirect=article/68429

                        Take your tongue out of the picture.
                      9. +1
                        14 March 2015 06: 18
                        And the professor then "rolled" :-) Nice sight :-)

                        There is even nothing to argue with this "truth-bearer". He can either translate the conversation into the topic of insufficient respect in communication to his person and the absence of any acquaintances, or focus on the opponent's grammar, or throws counter "accusations" (everything is like the State Department manual). But he will never answer directly the "inconvenient" questions :-) Dismiss - yes, answer - no.

                        Here he quietly (rat) and left the discussion of the topic :-)
                      10. 0
                        14 March 2015 15: 26
                        Quote: Nosgoth
                        Here he quietly (rat) and left the discussion of the topic :-)

                        Well, what kind of animal fashion to drag, then horses, then rats _
                        Leave in English - leave without saying goodbye.

                        According to ... one version, this expression came about thanks to the English lord Henry Seymour, who, having lived in Paris for a long time, used to leave the evenings without bowing to his masters.
                        ...
                        His favorite fun was to change clothes as a coachman, sit in his place, and then, having arranged a mess on the roadway, quietly merge with the crowd, reveling ...
                      11. +1
                        9 March 2015 22: 11
                        Professor
                        People like you with "quilted jacket" turn the site into a trash heap.

                        Well, well, do not exaggerate.
                        I know, a professor, you would like the site to become a "mouthpiece" for Nazi propaganda led by you. And at the same time in a book of fairy tales that he loves to compose so much and tells the pimply about the Great and Mighty Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates lol
                  2. +2
                    9 March 2015 13: 32
                    The professor is just a Nazi(despite the fact that by nationality he is a Jew, and the worst thing among Jews is the Nazis)
                    Here is his favorite "excuse" that he likes to use when talking about the brutally murdered by the Israeli punitive "gang" of thousands of innocent women, children, old people in Gaza and throughout the Middle East.
                    Professor
                    I congratulate you, mister sovramshi. You certainly do not have a list of Arab victims, but you are yelling about "genocide" loudly.

                    Then, following your Nazi logic, we continue.
                    Allegedly, 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. But there are only about 4 million Jews by name.
                    That is, following your perverted Nazi views - there is no list of names, no victims.
                    It turns out that only 4 million Jews died in the Holocaust.
                    And 2 million "nameless" Jews "supposedly perished" simply DO NOT EXIST.
                    1. 0
                      9 March 2015 17: 42
                      Quote: quilted jacket
                      The professor is just a Nazi

                      Mr. Sokolov is probably the pet of Philip Denisovich Bobkov’s nest. And he may well be a double agent. And all his statements about how dumb he was in the USSR could be camouflage.
                      1. 0
                        9 March 2015 21: 19
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        Mr. Sokolov is probably a pet of Philip Denisovich Bobkov’s nest

                        What a chick he is, a real "fledgling" - a Nazi.
                        Only this type of people can tell about dead Arabs who died at the hands of Israeli punishers of Palestinian women, children and the elderly.
                        Yes, yes, yes, you showed your professor your true fascist gut. And he told tales here to us, in Israel there are no fascists.
                        Now we know one definitely is.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                2. +1
                  9 March 2015 10: 26
                  Quote: Cynic
                  Or maybe it's a little different?

                  The map is left and is spreading either by those who do not know a bit of history or by those who knowingly distort it.
                  1946 - there were no "Palestinian" and "Jewish" territories. The entire territory was under the British Mandate. Moreover, at that time only Jews were called "Palestinians". Even in the UN decision on the division of Mandatory Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state, the word "Palestine" was in no way associated with an Arab state.

                  1947 - the plan for the partition of Mandatory Palestine was happily accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. To whom are the claims? Of course, to the Jews, because then the Arabs attacked them with the aim of "throwing into the sea" and lost to the insidious Jews.

                  1948-1967 - An interesting map. The author had the audacity to designate here the "Palestinian territories" which, in fact, at that time were under the jurisdiction of Egypt and Jordan, and no one stuttered about the occupation.

                  2000th year, on the square are designated as "Palestinian territories" only the so-called. "Zone C". Where is Zone A and B? Are they Israeli?

                  The next time, before spreading stupid things, learn the materiel.
                  1. Robespierre9
                    0
                    9 March 2015 15: 32
                    The mistake is that you think that if you were attacked, you can kill everyone indiscriminately - civilian, civilian, and squeeze out their territories, by all standards, this is a violation of the conduct of hostilities, who the Palestinians were there doesn’t matter at all, it’s important what they are they occupied the territory at the beginning - and what territory did they occupy after you took the rest from them?

                    PS

                    Cleverly substitute "Israel" and "Jew". Jews live in many places, but they have no rights to states, the fact that Jews lived in Palestine does not mean that their state was originally there. It is important who owned the territories and who took them away.
                    1. -1
                      9 March 2015 15: 37
                      Quote: Robespierre9
                      The mistake is that you think that if you were attacked, you can kill everyone indiscriminately - civilian, civilian, and squeeze out their territories, by all standards, this is a violation of the conduct of hostilities, who the Palestinians were there doesn’t matter at all, it’s important what they are they occupied the territory at the beginning - and what territory did they occupy after you took the rest from them?

                      Are you talking about Are you talking about Konigsberg or the Kuril Islands?

                      Quote: Robespierre9
                      Cleverly substitute "Israel" and "Jew". Jews live in many places, but they have no rights to states, the fact that Jews lived in Palestine does not mean that their state was originally there. It is important who owned the territories and who took them away.

                      How deep. fool This means that there was no Jewish state in Palestine, and the territory must be given to "who owned the territory," that is, Britain. However, Britain abandoned them, and the Ottoman Empire no longer exists. How to be? To whom should the territories be returned? Maybe Jordan or Egypt? Duc and they do not want them back.
                      You have a bad materiel.
                      1. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 17: 18
                        "Are you talking about Are you talking about Koenigsberg or the Kuriles?"

                        Well, if you are ready to give ALL the territories occupied by you during the partition after the Second World War, then - I agree, if not - do not write anything - your Israel will be more whole.

                        "This means that there was no Jewish state in Palestine, and the territory should be given to" who owned the territory, "that is, Britain. However, Britain abandoned them, and the Ottoman Empire no longer exists. What should be done?

                        The first one. If India belonged at some stage in its history to Petty Brittany, this does not mean that it should belong to it for the rest of its history.

                        The second one. The territory should belong to those who were mostly there before the resettlement of Jews there and the formation of the state of Israel, and these are not Jews, believe me. To seriously consider fairy tales from the Old Testament, I’m not ready for something, then go straight to Egypt)).
                      2. 0
                        9 March 2015 20: 16
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Well, if you are ready to give ALL the territories occupied by you during the partition after the Second World War

                        Your "erudition" well, straight rushing through all the cracks. What are we busy with during the division of the territory after the Second World War? Who are they busy with?

                        Hurry to answer, I’ll stop feeding soon.

                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        This means that there was no Jewish state in Palestine, and the territory must be given to "who owned the territory," that is, Britain. However, Britain abandoned them, and the Ottoman Empire no longer exists. How to be? To whom to return territories


                        I repeat the question. To whom to return? Can you give a short and clear answer?
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        The second one. The territory should belong to those who were mostly there before the resettlement of Jews there and the formation of the state of Israel, and these are not Jews, believe me.

                        1. No need to "poke" me, in one meadow geese were not grazed. Or dad and mom didn’t teach you good manners?
                        2. And who was there? wink
                      3. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 22: 03
                        Quote: professor
                        Your "erudition" well, straight rushing through all the cracks. What are we busy with during the division of the territory after the Second World War? Who are they busy with?

                        The state of Israel is formed, you are our stupid. You get out of the territory occupied by modern Israel, we smoked and Koenigsberg, okay? Do you agree to such an exchange?

                        Quote: professor
                        I repeat the question. To whom to return? Can you give a short and clear answer?

                        The Palestinian people are a separate ethnic group. They have a separate state in fact "State of Palestine" (State of Palestine). Everything is there, both people and ethnic group, oppressed first by Unshaven Melkania, then by Israel, what are you all not happy with?
                      4. +2
                        9 March 2015 22: 28
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        The state of Israel is formed, you are our stupid. You get out of the territory occupied by modern Israel, we smoked and Koenigsberg, okay? Do you agree to such an exchange?

                        No need to even compare them (Israel) and us (Russia).
                        These territories went to us as a result of the Great Patriotic War in which we lost tens of millions of our citizens and incalculated losses of industry and infrastructure. And even, for example, Germany does not put forward any official claims about the return of the Kaliningrad region. The Jews seized the territory set aside for the Palestinian state, expelling the local population in the "reservation" and killing some of it.
                        So these things can only be compared by such an inventor and dreamer as a professor.
                        It's just that this person adheres to Nazi ideology, "hates" Russia everything that is connected with it and his Arab neighbors.
                        So do not take it seriously.
                      5. +2
                        9 March 2015 17: 54
                        Quote: professor
                        Are you talking about Are you talking about Konigsberg or the Kuril Islands?

                        Wai me, dear Professor Well, it’s not yours, let’s say, to distort the truth.
                        All of what you said above is so verbal pick, using, so to speak, heavy weapons.
                        Everyone can clearly see that there is a struggle for survival, if Israel did not tear left and right, but for war, you need soldiers and, accordingly, territories for living, you would gobble it up, as you would gobble it up.
                        So let's think about what caused the creation, then, of the state of Israel within such borders.
                        Did any of those politicians believe that they would remain so?
                        Oh, I doubt it.
                        Was a means of control created, well, or was there an attempt to create it?
                        In my opinion the first.
                        Well, the personification of Universal Evil!
                  2. 0
                    9 March 2015 17: 25
                    Quote: professor
                    The map is left and is being squandered

                    Please, like, you are right _
                    1. 0
                      9 March 2015 19: 53
                      Quote: Cynic
                      Please, like, you are right _

                      And who doubted that everything would move to this
                      1. 0
                        9 March 2015 20: 06
                        Quote: Pimply
                        And who doubted that everything would move to this

                        Yes, we have a clear significant decrease in the territory of Israel, and some argue the opposite!
                        Respected Pimply , You used to, very spectacularly, always left the obviously losing market.
                        And then the discussion is without a chance, or do you plan to transfer it to the plan _ Is he like that? wink
                    2. -1
                      9 March 2015 20: 19
                      Quote: Cynic
                      Please, like, you are right

                      Here is the correct map. Now how do you explain the aggressiveness of the Arabs, since Israel has been constantly making concessions since 1973? wink
                      1. +1
                        9 March 2015 20: 33
                        Quote: professor
                        because since 1973, Israel has been constantly making concessions

                        Do you seriously think this topic is worth a discussion?
                        For example, I’m interested in the question why Israel has been making concessions since 1973
                        laughing
                      2. -1
                        9 March 2015 20: 36
                        Quote: Cynic
                        For example, I’m interested in the question why, since 1973, Israel has been constantly making concessions

                        Leftists, sir. hi
                      3. 0
                        9 March 2015 20: 38
                        Quote: professor
                        Leftists, sir.

                        Do you believe in democracy?
                        But seriously, why should they?
                        what
                      4. 0
                        9 March 2015 20: 45
                        Quote: Cynic
                        Do you believe in democracy?

                        "Democracy is imperfect, but humanity has not invented anything better"

                        Quote: Cynic
                        But seriously, why should they?

                        IMHO, a sense of superiority over "smaller brothers". It's hard to explain, you need to know them.
                      5. 0
                        9 March 2015 21: 04
                        Quote: professor
                        but mankind hasn’t come up with anything better

                        And why they didn’t bring it completely, I can’t vouch for accuracy, but it’s like _
                        but mankind hasn’t come up with anything better .
                        Quote: professor
                        IMHO, a sense of superiority over "smaller brothers".

                        A dangerous feeling, treated with lead and tol, usually goes away with life itself.
                        hi
              3. -1
                10 March 2015 18: 27
                Quote: Aron Zaavi
                Well, yes, and Israeli citizens have been killed for decades from weapons manufactured in the USSR and the Russian Federation, so what?

                Let me remind you, Jews are killed in a war unleashed by Jews.
          2. +3
            7 March 2015 15: 36
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            What thoughtful conclusions follow from this?


            That your point of view is not perfect. Relations with Israel and in general began even with the defoliant.
            The fact that this mockery of common sense, which you cite in the photo, is "adopted" for service in Russia (I will believe it when I see the order of the Ministry of Defense), does not mean that it is "adopted" for use, and not to replenish the weapons cabinet of curiosities.
            1. 0
              7 March 2015 17: 55
              Quote: bunta
              which you bring in the photo is "adopted" for service in Russia (I will believe it when I see the order of the Ministry of Defense), does not mean that it is "accepted" for use, and not replenishment of the weapons cabinet of curiosities.

              In the near future, CornerShot devices intended for firing from around the corner will come into service with all the units of police special forces in Russia. On Wednesday, 10 February, told reporters the head of the center for operational management of the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, lieutenant general of police Vladimir Gorshukov.

              Gorshukov stressed that such devices have already proven themselves well in the special forces of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs. The first "corner shots" entered service with the OMON and OMON detachments in November 2009.

              CornerShot is a turntable on which weapons are mounted. In most cases, this is a gun, but there are versions that allow you to install a submachine gun on the platform.

              The lieutenant general also said that at present Russian specialists are developing a domestic analogue of the platform invented by Israeli specialists. According to him, they will replace the Israeli platform when they "meet the requirements of the special forces."

              Do you think someone cares about your faith or disbelief?
              1. Robespierre9
                +5
                7 March 2015 18: 33
                It was banal to drink some dough, a lot of things were also supplied to Georgia, is it an invention to attach a pistol to a stick? I think in some more or less large European country a little less than a wagon of similar patents for the same or a similar invention, and knowing the Jews craving for copying and appropriation, I would not be surprised that the patent for this "stick" was trite to be bought by Jews from any inventors, even in Russia, at least anywhere else.
              2. +5
                7 March 2015 19: 06
                Quote: Pimply
                Do you think someone cares about your faith or disbelief?


                In demagogy, this is called a thesis substitution. A smooth transition from the subject of discussion to the individual. Well, the transition to demagogy is a sign of defeat in the discussion.

                I repeat the corner shot is complete. There are concrete arguments on this score, not my or general opinion.
                1. -2
                  7 March 2015 19: 38
                  Quote: bunta


                  I repeat the corner shot is complete. There are concrete arguments on this score, not my or general opinion.

                  Do not worry, we have something. You will convince your generals and everyone will be fine.
                2. -3
                  8 March 2015 06: 15
                  Quote: bunta
                  In demagogy, this is called a thesis substitution. A smooth transition from the subject of discussion to the individual. Well, the transition to demagogy is a sign of defeat in the discussion.

                  I repeat the corner shot is complete. There are concrete arguments on this score, not my or general opinion.

                  You see, there is such an expression "it is stupid to throw pearls in front of pigs." I’m not sword;) Should I comment on your frank stupidity further? Thank you, I value my time
                  1. +1
                    8 March 2015 07: 00
                    Quote: Pimply
                    You see, there is such an expression "it is stupid to throw pearls in front of pigs." I’m not sword;)

                    Are you implying that I'm a pig?
                    1. -2
                      8 March 2015 10: 47
                      Quote: bunta
                      Are you implying that I'm a pig?

                      I hint in plain text that this expression means talking in vain about something or proving something to someone who is not capable or does not want to either understand or appraise it properly.
                      For your education. These words are from the Sermon on the Mount of Jesus Christ ◆ Do not give the shrine to the dogs and do not throw your pearls before the pigs, so that they do not trample it under their feet and, turning, do not tear you to pieces. “The Bible Matthew 7: 6” / synodal translation, 1816 – 1862. The word "beads" (as pearls used to be called in Russia) entered the modern Russian language from the Church Slavonic text of the Bible.
                      Well, if you so want to perceive it as if you were called a pig in the truest sense of the word - well, this is purely your problem. Are you ready to make judgments where your "ideas" contradict reality?
                      1. +1
                        8 March 2015 11: 22
                        A deep knowledge of the basics of rhetoric shines in the pearls of your words, and quoting the New Testament by an Orthodox Jew is simply astounding. In a state of bewildered bewilderment, I retire to the chambers of my mind, so that in a calm atmosphere I can rethink the solemn completeness of the Creator’s intention, which gave us in the revelation of the Old Testament, the Book of Wisdom of Solomon, Chapter 1, verse 11: So, be protected from useless grumble and beware of the slander of the tongue, for the secret word will not pass in vain, and slandering lips kill the soul.
                      2. 0
                        8 March 2015 12: 53
                        Quote: bunta
                        A deep knowledge of the basics of rhetoric shines in the pearls of your words, and quoting the New Testament by an Orthodox Jew is simply astounding. In a state of bewildered bewilderment, I retire to the chambers of my mind, so that in a calm atmosphere I will rethink the solemn completeness of the Creator’s intention, which gave us in the revelation of the Old Testament, Solomon’s Book of Wisdom, Chapter 1, verse 11: So, beware of useless murmurings and beware of tongue slander, for even the secret word will not pass in vain, and slandering lips kill the soul.

                        My friend, and you are also boring
                      3. +2
                        8 March 2015 13: 13
                        The last word in the argument is not the smartest, but the most stubborn.
                      4. 0
                        8 March 2015 13: 21
                        Quote: bunta
                        The last word in the argument is not the smartest, but the most stubborn.

                        You just thought that you put a stalemate - I will answer, and there you have both options in the black. Do not answer - like the most intelligent. You answer - like the most stubborn. But the problem is that there was no dispute. You said stupidity. And then he grabbed her teeth. Sorry, but the argument is something else. Tediousness and ignorance are not 8 disputes) As is your pride in the fact that you will be the most stubborn here. Be who's stopping you 8)))
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. 0
                        9 March 2015 12: 24
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Merge fast - there are many of us here

                        Yes, I see. Directly buzz and buzz 8))
                      7. Robespierre9
                        -2
                        9 March 2015 14: 45
                        Buzz - you're not interested in me wink
                      8. 0
                        9 March 2015 15: 54
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Buzz - you're not interested in me

                        Baby, well, try to make another good face in a bad game. And while it comes out mediocre
                  2. Robespierre9
                    +2
                    8 March 2015 13: 28
                    This is who "throws" before whom still needs to be seen, especially since Jesus is a false prophet and boil in a boiling seed in the underworld (supposedly), etc. etc.

                    Either put a cross on it, or use everything else that you have, or / or ..
                    1. 0
                      9 March 2015 15: 55
                      Quote: Robespierre9
                      This is who "throws" before whom still needs to be seen, especially since Jesus is a false prophet and boil in a boiling seed in the underworld (supposedly), etc. etc.


                      Here is the last in more detail 8) Very interesting.

                      "U, damned, they crucified our Christ" 8)
                      1. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 16: 51
                        You’ll be banned for insults, be careful not on your territory laughing
                      2. 0
                        9 March 2015 19: 54
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        You’ll be banned for insults, be careful not on your territory

                        And on whose? Well, just wondering 8)
                      3. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 22: 22
                        In Russian, on whose else?
          3. MMX
            +3
            7 March 2015 21: 06
            This is an article by the way.

            I wonder which one? Are you talking about Russian legislation or are you talking about an article in a printed publication?
    3. +3
      7 March 2015 16: 22
      Mass production of stamping with welding will be at any cheaper than mass milling. At least in terms of energy consumption. The quality of stamping will be worse.
      1. 0
        7 March 2015 17: 56
        Quote: Shtynsky Dwarf
        Mass production of stamping with welding will be at any cheaper than mass milling. At least in terms of energy consumption. The quality of stamping will be worse.

        About that and speech
    4. +2
      7 March 2015 20: 58
      Quote: professor
      This is due to the fact that in mass production on CNC machines, the cost is comparable to stamping and welding with much better quality.

      Professor I will rephrase your post about merkava - when the galil appeared, the CNC was not yet in dreams.
      1. -1
        7 March 2015 21: 03
        Quote: gross kaput
        Professor I will rephrase your post about merkava - when the galil appeared, the CNC was not yet in dreams.

        I could not even imagine that Galil appeared before the 1940s. wink

        History of numerical control
        1. +2
          7 March 2015 21: 31
          Well, as it were, the first operable CNC machines appeared in the mid-late 50s, the only question was if they had them in the late 60s to seriously consider the version that choosing between stamping and milling they chose the latter because of the established CNC production lines - i.e. the question from the same opera as with Merkava, the development of which began at about the same time as Galila, wrote chaotically, but I think the idea is clear.
          1. -1
            7 March 2015 21: 43
            Quote: gross kaput
            Well, as it were, the first operable CNC machines appeared in the mid-to-late 50s, the only question was whether they had IMI in the late 60s ...

            I didn’t see it myself for a subjective reason, but on what equipment the Tavors do the same. Nobody even thought about stamping.
            1. 0
              8 March 2015 20: 53
              Quote: professor
              Nobody even thought about stamping.

              And in vain.
              Metalworking on milling, turning, etc. machine tools yesterday.
              hi
              1. anomalocaris
                0
                9 March 2015 08: 28
                Justify this thesis, please.
                1. 0
                  9 March 2015 18: 27
                  Quote: anomalocaris
                  Justify this thesis, please.

                  Back in the last century, justified.
                  This is _ The cold stamping process.
                  1. 0
                    9 March 2015 19: 55
                    Quote: Cynic
                    This is _ The cold stamping process.

                    And that the mill is still used by far-reaching countries is a mystery.
                    1. 0
                      9 March 2015 20: 24
                      Quote: Pimply
                      the mill is still used by far-off countries

                      Yeah, but where was it said to me that the use of metalworking equipment is a sign of a lagging country?
                      Or there was nothing more to say, but wanted to say?
                      They would have kept silent, they could have gone away, too.
                      lol
                      1. anomalocaris
                        0
                        10 March 2015 03: 14
                        You said that.
                      2. -1
                        10 March 2015 15: 48
                        Quote: anomalocaris
                        You said that.

                        Is it really so?
                        Or my phrase _
                        Quote: Cynic
                        Metalworking on milling, turning, etc. machine tools yesterday.

                        is equivalent to my accusation of these countries for backwardness?
                        Taki dear Pimply much more elegant than you already did _
                        Quote: Pimply
                        the mill is still used by far-off countries

                        What clearly hinted at my certain deficiencies in knowledge?
                        Or do not you understand?
                        Read the posts of the above respected forum users and study, study, study
                        Yes, I repeat _
                        They would have kept silent, they could have gone away, too.

                        hi
                      3. anomalocaris
                        0
                        11 March 2015 14: 45
                        Baby, dump on x, y, y. Because you are talking nonsense.
                  2. anomalocaris
                    0
                    10 March 2015 03: 13
                    Yeah. Do you even know what it is and what it is eaten with?
                    1. -1
                      10 March 2015 15: 31
                      Quote: anomalocaris
                      Yeah. Do you even know what it is and what it is eaten with?

                      Nah, I got a beautiful phrase in the chipboard review for the BTI of our software. That’s stuck in my memory since the 80s laughing
                      1. anomalocaris
                        0
                        11 March 2015 14: 35
                        It is understandable. You need to learn (be treated).
              2. 0
                9 March 2015 12: 25
                Quote: Cynic
                And in vain.
                Metalworking on milling, turning, etc. machine tools yesterday.

                Oh how. And the men didn’t know
                1. Robespierre9
                  0
                  9 March 2015 14: 46
                  3D printer, heard? winked
                  1. +1
                    9 March 2015 15: 53
                    Quote: Robespierre9
                    3D printer, heard?

                    Of course. Promising technology. Does this milling yesterday? Not for a very long time. Like a laser doesn't make firearms yesterday, baby
                    1. Robespierre9
                      0
                      9 March 2015 16: 42
                      "Of course. A promising technology. Does that make milling yesterday? Not for a very long time. Like a laser doesn't make a firearm yesterday, kid."

                      It does, in some industries, where manufacturability is important, or lightness mainly, yes, of course it does. Or they would not have made receiver of plastic on some samples of rifles.
                      1. anomalocaris
                        0
                        10 March 2015 03: 16
                        That's when the 3D printer prints a part from high-alloy, heat-treated steel, then we'll talk.
                      2. -2
                        10 March 2015 15: 59
                        Quote: anomalocaris
                        That's when the 3D printer prints a part from

                        It’s even interesting with you that you still freeze _

                2. 0
                  9 March 2015 18: 28
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Oh how. And the men didn’t know

                  Suppose the men are in the know.
                  wink
                  1. anomalocaris
                    0
                    10 March 2015 08: 28
                    That's just not up to you.
                    1. -1
                      10 March 2015 15: 33
                      Quote: anomalocaris
                      That's just not up to you.

                      So open the secret or is it for the initiates?
                  2. anomalocaris
                    0
                    11 March 2015 14: 51
                    Guys in the know. This is you p.r.i.d.u.s. ..
          2. anomalocaris
            +3
            7 March 2015 22: 56
            And what has to do with CNC machines? In the story with Galil, the conversation is about something else, namely, that the Jews bought the entire production, with all the tools, tooling, specialized equipment, from the Valmet company.
  5. +2
    7 March 2015 08: 59
    While Russia is trying to find a replacement for Kalashnikov, the Israelis are releasing a modernized Kalashnikov, fully realizing that they are not looking for good ....
    1. +5
      7 March 2015 12: 35
      Quote: Snowman
      While in Russia they are trying to find a replacement for Kalashnikov, the Israelis are releasing a modernized Kalashnikov, fully realizing that they are not looking for good ...

      If you did not pay attention, then the article is about the 70 years. In Israel, Galil has long been withdrawn from service
  6. +4
    7 March 2015 09: 04
    That's why they are Jews, who would collect diamonds around the world - to cut, polish, and insert into the frame. They took the best of its kind weapons and also brought it. It turned out extremely reliable, convenient and trouble-free.
    1. +6
      7 March 2015 10: 34
      Quote: D-Master
      It turned out extremely reliable, convenient and trouble-free.

      The amendment is reliable almost like an ancestor, flawlessly almost like an ancestor, the convenience is controversial: a heavy, uncomfortable cocking handle, very often the butt fastening loosens, with prolonged shooting the translator sometimes switches to single.
      1. -3
        7 March 2015 12: 36
        Quote: Timeout
        with prolonged shooting, the translator sometimes switches to single.

        I have never heard of this before.
        Quote: Timeout
        heavy,

        Compared to what?
        1. +3
          7 March 2015 14: 03
          Quote: Pimply
          I have never heard of this before.

          Well, hearing is not necessary when there is such an opinion ...
          1. 0
            7 March 2015 14: 59
            Quote: Bayonet
            Well, hearing is not necessary when there is such an opinion ...

            When such an opinion - then yes 8))
        2. +3
          7 March 2015 14: 33
          Quote: Pimply
          I have never heard of this before.

          Occurs and is often satisfied.
          Quote: Pimply
          Compared to what?

          Yes, compared to the grandfather of AK, not to mention. And the wine is mostly in a milled box. This suggests that IMI already got the technology that was used with 1951 in the first series.
          1. anomalocaris
            0
            7 March 2015 14: 41
            Yes, compared to grandfather AK

            If anything, then the AK had a mass of 4,3 kg without cartridges.
            1. 0
              7 March 2015 15: 13
              Quote: anomalocaris
              If anything, then the AK had a mass of 4,3 kg without cartridges.

              Mistake, 4.07 kg without cartridges.
          2. 0
            7 March 2015 14: 58
            Quote: Timeout
            Occurs and is often satisfied.

            So, so very often? You see, I often encountered Galil. And I did not hear about such a topic at all 8)
            Quote: Timeout
            Yes, compared to the grandfather of AK, not to mention. And the wine is mostly in a milled box. This suggests that IMI already got the technology that was used with 1951 in the first series.

            The milled box was used for greater reliability, and it was preserved in Galil Ace. Stamping has a bunch of its flaws. Generally - the mill against stamping is a separate discussion point. Compared to AK’s grandfather, AK was actually heavier. AKM is easier. And depending on what kind of modification 8 is talking about)
      2. 0
        7 March 2015 14: 59
        Quote: Timeout
        uncomfortable cocking handle

        That's just it is constantly used to modify Saiga in the same States 8)
        1. +4
          7 March 2015 15: 41
          Well, yes ... They use it, but not from "Galil"

          Grips of the "Galil" type are put on the model with the right stock, because when cocked with folded it is just a perversion.
          1. -2
            7 March 2015 18: 24
            Quote: Timeout
            Grips of the "Galil" type are put on the model with the right stock, because when cocked with folded it is just a perversion.

            Cocking with a folded butt is a perversion, forgive me.
  7. +7
    7 March 2015 09: 06
    Currently, Galil assault rifles of all modifications are in service with the Israeli army and special law enforcement agencies.
    - This is no longer the case, the Galil assault rifles from the Israeli armed forces have been mostly removed. The main small arms are Israeli troops are the American M16 and M4. In addition, the TAR-21 assault rifle (born Tavor Assault Rifle-21 - the Tavor assault rifle of the 21st century) of Israeli design (pictured) began to come into service in significant quantities.
    1. Robespierre9
      +4
      7 March 2015 12: 10
      A pretty terrible clone of everything you can, even the name SkipNzheli with indonezhi see. For example SAR-21 wassat
      They say she’s not very accurate .. yes, they arm women mainly with them, the current of the barrel is usually shorter ...
      1. Robespierre9
        +1
        7 March 2015 12: 38
        For example:






        1. -6
          7 March 2015 13: 16
          Jews idiots, once they let women into the army and throwing them to the front. After all, it is clear that a woman is primarily a mother. And throwing women into the very grinding means depriving themselves of the future in the person of the next generations.
          1. Rex
            +7
            7 March 2015 13: 25
            They are not visible in their mountains of female corpses, as well as male
          2. Robespierre9
            +2
            7 March 2015 14: 29
            Look at the statistics of casualties first, one Israeli soldier is bombed with "pieces" (I mean thousands), two at a time ..
            Palestinians have women in any army, too, the main thing is to apply them correctly ...
          3. +2
            7 March 2015 14: 39
            Quote: Basarev
            Jews idiots, once they let women into the army and throwing them to the front. After all, it is clear that a woman is primarily a mother. And throwing women into the very grinding means depriving themselves of the future in the person of the next generations.

            A man is a father. A dog is a friend. And the satellite - into space.
            Respected. Your logic resembles the logic of the Taliban. Because proceeding from it, a woman should sit at home - and give birth, give birth, give birth. Years since 13, right? Without studying and other unnecessary garbage
            1. Robespierre9
              +3
              7 March 2015 14: 46
              Better to carry Sleepers laughing - just kidding, train - yes, in battle - no.
              1. 0
                7 March 2015 17: 39
                Quote: Robespierre9
                It’s better to carry Sleepers - just kidding, train - yes, into battle - no.

                The question is, what is the talk of allow-not allow, like the Taliban’s. So the question arises - have you gone far?
                1. +4
                  7 March 2015 18: 42
                  Of course pimply, let them learn to kill Palestinians and indeed all around.
                  Or do you just have too many orthodox Jews whom Thor does not allow to serve in the army? And you decided to replace them with women lol
                  1. +3
                    7 March 2015 21: 03
                    Quote: quilted jacket
                    Of course pimply, let them learn to kill Palestinians and indeed all around.
                    Or do you just have too many orthodox Jews whom Thor does not allow to serve in the army? And you decided to replace them with women lol

                    Have you forgotten ours in World War II? They have no choice 8 million against 400 million Semites around laughing
                    1. Robespierre9
                      +2
                      7 March 2015 21: 44
                      How many were there in percentage terms? I mean the combat units themselves, not the medical sanitary battalion. And yet, you know the Second World War, this is a slightly different type of war, for destruction, "head-on" they cannot be compared like that.

                      PS

                      There are ALL Semites, write more precisely wink and then the Jews, they are only Semites, and you have only non-Jews laughing.
                      1. 0
                        7 March 2015 21: 54
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        How many were there in percentage terms? I mean the combat units themselves, not the medical sanitary battalion. And yet, you know the Second World War, this was a somewhat different type of war, for destruction, "head-on" they cannot be compared like this:

                        and how many women are in the military units of the IDF? I didn’t meet something.
                      2. 0
                        8 March 2015 06: 15
                        Quote: Aron Zaavi
                        and how many women are in the military units of the IDF? I didn’t meet something.

                        Several thousand
                      3. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        8 March 2015 13: 24
                        Call you like everyone else, i.e. there is no difference if you are not Orthodox, and Orthodox are not called upon, lowering :-).
                      4. 0
                        9 March 2015 15: 51
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Call you like everyone else, i.e. there is no difference if you are not Orthodox, and Orthodox are not called upon, lowering :-).

                        Well done, little troll. But the trouble is, you confuse the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox, and you are not aware that Tal’s law has been repealed, and ultra-Orthodox are subject to appeal. Sit down, two.
                      5. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        9 March 2015 16: 36
                        But what difference does it matter that the ultraorthodox is more valuable to you than your women, do you teach them to reproduce?
                      6. 0
                        9 March 2015 16: 50
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        But what difference does it matter that the ultraorthodox is more valuable to you than your women, do you teach them to reproduce?

                        And right now, still in the chest with fists, baby. And cheek up 8) So cute, so funny 8))) But a woman like ultraorthodox cannot be 8) Damn, we still have to push women out of the Russian army. Occupied, 45000, as you can!
                      7. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 19: 11
                        "A woman is not a man" (c) Moishe-orthodox (well, I'll find it, right?)
                      8. 0
                        9 March 2015 16: 59
                        But what's the difference between you and the orthodox pimply that serves "with a gulkin's nose." "Religious" Jews do not want to die for the "cannibalistic" desires of your military leaders, who send them to destroy the peaceful Arab population.
                      9. 0
                        9 March 2015 19: 57
                        Quote: quilted jacket
                        But what's the difference between you and the orthodox pimply that serves "with a gulkin's nose." "Religious" Jews do not want to die for the "cannibalistic" desires of your military leaders, who send them to destroy the peaceful Arab population.

                        Vatnichik, why are you so killing 8) You are not so killing 8)
                    2. +1
                      9 March 2015 13: 47
                      And then the Great Patriotic War?
                      Then our country was attacked, the Israelis themselves, by their aggressiveness and extreme cruelty, turned against themselves the entire population of the surrounding Muslim countries.
                      1. 0
                        9 March 2015 15: 51
                        Quote: quilted jacket
                        And then the Great Patriotic War?
                        Then our country was attacked, the Israelis themselves, by their aggressiveness and extreme cruelty, turned against themselves the entire population of the surrounding Muslim countries.

                        Of course, a quilted jacket. U, which are bad.
                      2. 0
                        9 March 2015 16: 21
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Of course, a quilted jacket. U, which are bad.

                        Yes, not bad pimples, just the policy of your territorial formation is extremely aggressive and aimed at the destruction of the Palestinian and the Arab population.
                        It is not the Jews themselves who are to blame as a people, it is the criminal regime that is at the head of Israel. And some Jews began to understand this.
                        "Israel wants change": demonstration was held in Tel Aviv calling for a change of government
                        On Saturday evening, March 7, on the Yitzhak Rabin Square in Tel Aviv, a demonstration of representatives of the leftist social and political movements took place: the Zionist Camp bloc, the Meretz party and others.

                        Although in this thread, I do not want to raise a discussion with you.
                        Tell further tales of how you "scribbled" from the machine lol Probably not one shahid killed - a dreamer laughing
                      3. 0
                        9 March 2015 16: 51
                        Quote: quilted jacket
                        On Saturday evening, March 7, on the Yitzhak Rabin Square in Tel Aviv, a demonstration of representatives of the leftist social and political movements took place: the Zionist Camp bloc, the Meretz party and others.

                        AND? In Israel, the elections, the left has a certain chance - and not bad.
                      4. 0
                        9 March 2015 17: 12
                        Pimply
                        AND? In Israel, the elections, the left has a certain chance - and not bad.

                        And what about your "Zionist camp" - is it left? lol
                        This is what I am talking about, it is necessary to remove the extremely aggressive and "not entirely truthful" "artist" Netanyahu, and put a "normal" person who will find a common language with the outside world. And finally it will "rid" you of your extremely nationalist (Nazi) point of view.
                      5. 0
                        9 March 2015 19: 59
                        Quote: quilted jacket
                        And what about your "Zionist camp" - is it left?

                        No, well then, they are of course strongly right 8)
                      6. 0
                        9 March 2015 17: 03
                        Quote: quilted jacket
                        Tell further tales of how you "scribbled" from the machine

                        In August 2012, he said that he was a mortar man. laughing
                      7. 0
                        9 March 2015 17: 14
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        In August 2012, he said that he was a mortar man.

                        Yes, from him you can still hear not such fantasies lol
                      8. 0
                        9 March 2015 19: 58
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        In August 2012, he said that he was a mortar man.

                        AND? 8) Does it bother you that I have several army specialties and courses, and am tormented by my own failure?
                      9. +1
                        9 March 2015 20: 39
                        Quote: Pimply
                        AND? 8) Does it bother you that I have several army specialties and courses, and am tormented by my own failure?

                        No, it doesn't bother. Simply says that your fantasy in the composition of "fairy tales" is simply limitless smile
                        The glory of Hans Christian Anderson - "definitely" fades before you lol
                      10. 0
                        9 March 2015 22: 39
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        In August 2012, he said that he was a mortar man.

                        AND? 8) Does it bother you that I have several army specialties and courses, and am tormented by my own failure?

                        We are confused by the fact that the "blue" may have a desire to apply his skills, combat experience and knowledge in medicine against Russia.
                      11. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 16: 34
                        Something good? And what?
                  2. 0
                    15 March 2015 20: 24
                    And the Girl is very beautiful, thoughtful and sad! feel smile
          4. +2
            7 March 2015 14: 54
            What nonsense are you talking about?
          5. +1
            7 March 2015 21: 55
            Quote: Basarev
            Jews idiots, once they let women into the army and throwing them to the front. After all, it is clear that a woman is primarily a mother. And throwing women into the very grinding means depriving themselves of the future in the person of the next generations.

            It so happened that Israeli Jews have eggs, unlike the Jewish men who live in Europe and do not want to go to the historical.
      2. +1
        7 March 2015 13: 09
        Quote: Robespierre9
        A pretty terrible clone of everything you can, even the name SkipNzheli with indonezhi see. For example SAR-21

        How beautiful is the bombastic stupidity and ignorance of 8) Based on your logic, AK is a copy of Schmeiser's assault rifle?
        1. Robespierre9
          +1
          7 March 2015 14: 34
          no, rather the Americans, they applied this scheme first, and the "skew" instead "went" to the Belgians .. most likely they exchanged schematic diagrams, no more. Schmeiser is definitely not in business - this is nonsense, propaganda, he worked, but the Kalash did not I already invented rather, I don't really believe in self-taught sergeants either. So something like that. feel
          1. 0
            7 March 2015 15: 01
            Quote: Robespierre9
            it’s more likely the Americans, they applied this scheme first, and the "skew" instead "went" to the Belgians .. most likely they exchanged schematic diagrams, no more. I already invented rather, I don't really believe in self-taught sergeants either. So something like that.

            Well, you write Tavor in the copy-paste scheme of the bulap?
            1. Robespierre9
              +1
              7 March 2015 15: 04
              What does bullpup have to do with it? There, that, only this is skipped, it is up to date that its clone is G36 (better not argue wink )
              1. 0
                7 March 2015 17: 39
                Quote: Robespierre9
                What does bullpup have to do with it? There, that, only this is skipped, it’s aware that this is a G36 clone (better not argue)

                So, you better somehow formulate thoughts more clearly 8)
                1. Robespierre9
                  +1
                  7 March 2015 18: 49
                  I wrote to you TAR-21 this "borrowed" SAR-21, everything is common there, down to the mechanism of action - a long piston stroke. The G36 has a bolt on which the bolt moves;), all these weapons came out a little earlier than Tavor, well, a couple of years earlier ;-).

                  Copying is an art, the Jews do it so that no one at least guesses, then to steam it back to those from whom they took ;-), for example, the Finns try ...
                  1. 0
                    7 March 2015 21: 59
                    Quote: Robespierre9
                    I wrote to you TAR-21 this "borrowed" SAR-21, everything is common there, down to the mechanism of action - a long piston stroke. The G36 has a bolt on which the bolt moves;), all these weapons came out a little earlier than Tavor, well, a couple of years earlier ;-).

                    Oh how! or maybe you will again shine with erudition and look far into the past?
                    Maybe then it dawns on you that SAR-21 and G-36 have a common ancestor?
                    Moreover, there is no need to prove kinship there, since this is a well-known and not denied fact.
                    1. Robespierre9
                      -1
                      8 March 2015 02: 49
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Oh how! or maybe you will again shine with erudition and look far into the past?
                      Maybe then it dawns on you that SAR-21 and G-36 have a common ancestor?
                      Moreover, there is no need to prove kinship there, since this is a well-known and not denied fact.

                      What, digging stick? wassat
                      1. 0
                        8 March 2015 11: 12
                        No, you erudite our common ancestor in them AR-18 is their common grandfather.
                        SAR-21 is developed on the basis of SAR-80, which in turn was developed by the British Sterling Armaments Company by order of Singaporeans on the basis of AR-18, which was made in sterling under an export license. G-36 was developed after H&K was bought with shaving in the early 90s, and is a compilation of technical solutions for the further development of SAR-80 - SAR-87 and advanced injection technologies from high-strength HUK polymers.
                      2. Robespierre9
                        +1
                        8 March 2015 13: 09
                        Meanwhile, what you list is almost nothing in common, well, except, perhaps, the principle of gas exhaust ...
                      3. 0
                        8 March 2015 13: 57
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Meanwhile, what you list is almost nothing in common, well, except, perhaps, the principle of gas exhaust ...

                        Shaw trying to disguise your own "super erudition"?
                        Well then, take a look at how the AR-18 bolt group looks and how it slowly transformed in the SAR-80 systems (almost unchanged), SAR-87 (the bolt frame received a long projection-pusher) G-36 (a modified version of the Sar-87). and the most interesting shutter group in SAR-21 received even more changes and began to resemble a cross between AK and AR-18, but all the same, common ancestors are visible.
                      4. Robespierre9
                        -2
                        8 March 2015 21: 29
                        What you read in one article in Russian may not be what it really is, you need to be able to see a little further on exactly one article ..

                        "While the AR-18 was never adopted as the standard service rifle of any nation, its production license was sold to companies in Japan and England, and it is said to have influenced many later weapons such as the British SA80 "

                        Do you want to translate? "They say influenced" it was NOT "served as a basis" because these are a little different things .. a little.

                        Read the source so as not to write nonsense later.

                        And if by and large, with the TAR-21 there is only a common rod, and everything, with the SAR-21 for nothing, the latter is much closer to the Kalash than to the AR-18.

                        Go learn your articles further.
                      5. Robespierre9
                        -1
                        9 March 2015 14: 51
                        Uh, what are you minus, if there is nothing to say, immediately minus? stupid anger has not benefited anyone, write anything then ..
                      6. Robespierre9
                        -1
                        9 March 2015 16: 32
                        Hmm, never underestimate the primitiveness of stupid stupidity, it's about them .. laughing
                      7. anomalocaris
                        0
                        10 March 2015 08: 30
                        Ensign
                        Robespierre9 (1) RU Yesterday, 16:32 ↑

                        Hmm, never underestimate the primitiveness of stupid stupidity, it's about them .. laughing

                        Look in the mirror ...
  8. +1
    7 March 2015 09: 43
    Somewhere on the Internet pages I read that the PPSh barrel resource is several tens of thousands of shots, AKM (AK, etc.) is only 10 thousand, also 10 thousand galil, what is the reason for the small resource of modern trunks?
    1. +5
      7 March 2015 10: 00
      Quote: User_internet
      Somewhere on the Internet pages I read that the PPSH barrel resource is several tens of thousands of shots

      This is an exaggeration, although taking into account the fact that the PPSh-41 used a weaker pistol cartridge and the barrel was chrome plated, it is possible that the barrel resource could actually be slightly longer. But of course not at times. In addition, the weapon consists not only of the barrel, it is doubtful that the entire structure of the weapon will withstand such a large shot.
    2. +3
      7 March 2015 10: 14
      you still shoot these 10,000 shots
      1. +2
        7 March 2015 10: 23
        Quote: ruslan207
        you still shoot these 10,000 shots

        In battle, you still have to survive, then to shoot it all ...
      2. +2
        7 March 2015 10: 39
        Quote: ruslan207
        you still shoot these 10,000 shots

        I do not know how the training is delivered to recruits in other countries.
        In the year 52 of the week, the average weekly 10 cartridges are shot, plus the shooting of those remaining in zinc, write-off. Ten thousand can be shot for 19-20 years.
        On chrome plating and survivability, the 1970 edition states that the trunks can withstand 20-30 thousand shots, while the AK-74 was not yet in service.
        1. +2
          7 March 2015 12: 37
          Quote: marshes
          In the year 52 of the week, the average weekly 10 cartridges are shot, plus the shooting of those remaining in zinc, write-off. Ten thousand can be shot for 19-20 years.

          We shot 120-150 rounds per week
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. anomalocaris
      +9
      7 March 2015 10: 25
      PPSh is a submachine gun. That is, a weapon using a pistol cartridge. In this particular case, the cartridge is 7,62x25. This ammunition has a 5,5 g bullet and develops a maximum pressure of 2100 atm. The automatic 7,62x39 has a bullet weighing 7,8 g and develops a maximum pressure of 3000 atm. Accordingly, the load on the trunk is significantly higher. First of all, this concerns the contact stresses arising at the point of contact of the bullet with the surface of the barrel. When these stresses reach the elastic limit of the metal (for different grades of steel it is 300-400 MPa, but mainly in the region of 350 MPa), the geometry of the bore begins to be violated due to residual deformations. The well-known "washing away" of the rifling takes place. This is especially pronounced in small-caliber machine guns chambered for 5,45x39 or 5,56x45 because the bullet circumference of these cartridges is almost 2 times less than that of ammunition in caliber 7,62, respectively, and the contact patch area is 2 times less, and the voltage more. Hence the survivability of such barrels in the region of 10 rounds. By the way, there are 000, 5,6 mm ultra-high speed cartridges. they give pressures of the order of 4,5-3500 atm. So the survivability of the barrels of such rifles is estimated at several hundred shots.
      But AKM had a resource of at least two more than what you indicated.
      1. 0
        7 March 2015 10: 38
        Quote: anomalocaris
        But AKM had a resource of at least two more than what you indicated.

        The resource of the new AK-74M is higher than that of AKM, because it is designed to shoot with modern cartridges like 7N10, which have a much firmer bullet shirt than standard PS.
        1. anomalocaris
          +2
          7 March 2015 10: 50
          Well, do not compare the warm with the soft, especially since you are wrong. Actually, the AKM and AK-74M are units for completely different cartridges and completely different in time.
          Call the AK-74M a new machine only a person living in the early 90 of the last century can.
          And in more detail, please, about the toughness of the shirt, it’s very interesting you write.
          1. 0
            7 March 2015 11: 38
            Quote: anomalocaris
            Call the AK-74M a new machine only a person living in the early 90 of the last century can.

            Well, I would not be so categorical if it is in relation to AKM. In terms of innovations applied in the AK-74, this is a very big step forward compared to the prototype.
            1. anomalocaris
              0
              7 March 2015 14: 48
              In terms of innovations applied in the AK-74, this is a very big step forward compared to the prototype.

              Well ... Ak-74 was adopted in 1975, about AK-74M I read another year in 94 ... Now, if that, 2015 ...
          2. 0
            7 March 2015 14: 37
            Quote: anomalocaris
            Call the AK-74M a new machine

            New, this is the production of the year since 2003, when the quality of barreling became better than in the mid-90s. Hope the misunderstanding has disappeared?
            1. anomalocaris
              0
              7 March 2015 14: 50
              New, this is the production of the year since 2003, when the quality of barreling became better than in the mid-90s. Hope the misunderstanding has disappeared?

              New, this means the development of the past few years. AK-74M is still the Soviet development of the late 80s.
              1. 0
                7 March 2015 15: 55
                Quote: anomalocaris
                New it means developing the latest

                In such cases, they write about a new machine model ...
          3. Robespierre9
            0
            7 March 2015 14: 49
            The wear of armor-piercing (especially all kinds of tungsten there) is higher, therefore it is often forbidden to use them, only during battle.
            1. anomalocaris
              0
              7 March 2015 14: 55
              Depreciation of armor-piercing (especially all sorts of tungsten there)

              What a fright? If anything, the armor-piercing tungsten carbide core does not concern the walls of the bore, from the word in any way. The bullet is guided along the bore by cutting the bullet shell into the rifling. Our bullet shell is usually made of coated mild steel.
              1. Robespierre9
                0
                7 March 2015 15: 54
                with a fright such that it is indicated in the description of these cartridges, and not as it seems to some.
                1. anomalocaris
                  0
                  7 March 2015 16: 36
                  Please, here is the description in the studio. Or do not write nonsense.
                  By the way, nothing seems to me, I just want to understand how, all else being equal, namely, with the same shell material, the same internal ballistics, the same practically construction (cartridges 7H10 and 7H22 have a cavity filled with lead in front of the core, unlike 7H6) and differing only in core material (steel U12 instead of 65G) can cause more wear on the bore?
                  1. Robespierre9
                    0
                    7 March 2015 21: 40
                    Now I don’t remember where, but this was widespread information, look for it yourself.
                    1. anomalocaris
                      0
                      7 March 2015 23: 01
                      Clear. You should not be taken seriously. My advice to you: never try to talk about topics that you don’t understand.
                      1. Robespierre9
                        0
                        8 March 2015 02: 51
                        Do not give stupid advice to the rest, and then you will never know where you need to go.
                      2. anomalocaris
                        0
                        8 March 2015 10: 15
                        Well, with such an attitude towards people and life, trips to the dentist do not threaten you.
                      3. Robespierre9
                        0
                        8 March 2015 13: 15
                        Yes, exactly, you're right. Especially do not threaten me on the forum ...
                      4. anomalocaris
                        0
                        11 March 2015 14: 57
                        Yes, exactly, you're right. Especially do not threaten me on the forum ...

                        Already knocked out everything?
                    2. +1
                      8 March 2015 10: 58
                      Why look for something? comrade simply confuses round with soft, indeed, increased barrel wear takes place in many armor-piercing cartridges - but this is not due to the core material, but to the peak pressure in the barrel bore and to 7n22, which has standard pressure, this does not apply. as an example, we can cite the German cartridge 7,92X57 with the SmKH bullet, which was not allowed to be used in machine guns at all due to the rapid wear and high heating of the barrel - but the main reason was not in the design of the bullet or the core material, but for the "slowness" for example, the standard Ss cartridge had 2,85 g of flaky powder and SmKH 3,6 g. powerful tubular tenovoy gunpowder with equal mass of bullets.
                      PS Once it was a dubious pleasure to shoot them from 98K, despite the fact that for a long time it was no longer a boy and the tab was correct and shot in a thick sweater, in the middle of the second clip I was thinking not about aiming but about when the cartridges in the store would run out.
                      1. Robespierre9
                        0
                        8 March 2015 13: 14
                        Thank you, for the lamp of truth, it was so broke to look, but you took it and did everything for me, thanks, for the lamp !! wassat
                      2. 0
                        9 March 2015 14: 16
                        Uncle, maybe instead of masking your amateurism with boorish posts, do you dive back into political sections? There, after all, knowledge is not particularly required - the main thing is to yell louder and more abusive.
                      3. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 16: 15
                        I’m not there, go to the forum - write something, otherwise I’m tired of writing to myself there (there are not many people there).

                        There’s also an article on the shooter, the third one, they haven’t printed it here, it’s on the forum under a different nickname.
                      4. 0
                        9 March 2015 18: 07
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        There’s also an article on the shooter, the third one, they haven’t printed it here, it’s on the forum under a different nickname.

                        Looked at the articles - I remembered and almost died laughing - if I were in your place, I would be ashamed to remember that pompous nonsense, have you even read the comments to your "articles"?
                      5. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 19: 16
                        Your level is clear, I have no more questions, go on reading your "murzilki".
                      6. anomalocaris
                        +2
                        8 March 2015 13: 25
                        So I know about it. It's just that rifle armor-piercing, especially the times of the First World War, and modern small-caliber small-caliber cartridges of increased penetration ability have different tasks. The first should penetrate the armor protection installed on the equipment. Accordingly, they have, as a rule, a higher mass of a bullet and an enhanced charge, in comparison with a conventional cartridge. The second are intended to break through the NIB, into which the typical targets of small arms are now massively packed. At the same time, they can be applied not from case to case, but in a significant percentage (in some cases, completely replacing conventional bullets in the ammunition load). Accordingly, neither in ballistics nor in operational terms should they differ from standard ammunition.
                        But how to explain this to an individual who does not want to think at all, but has an opinion, and in a particularly perverted form?
                      7. Robespierre9
                        0
                        8 March 2015 21: 42
                        Wait a minute, dear. Bullets with greater speed and greater hardness of the core lead to more wear and tear, while the armor-piercing part is still harder because of the core, because the latter does not crumple, the speed is usually also higher than that of the lead-shell, so that the wear will also be more.
                      8. anomalocaris
                        0
                        9 March 2015 06: 01
                        Well, I'll try for the last time.

                        A bullet is not a monolithic object. Accordingly, the deformation of its individual elements occurs in different ways. Only the shell is involved in the running of the bullet along the rifles, which directly contacts the surface of the barrel bore, there is a lead shirt under it, it just compensates for the deformation of the shell. Thus, the core does not participate in the process of cutting a bullet into rifling and does not have any effect on the survivability of the barrel. If it were otherwise, all of our anti-tank rifles would be disposable.
                        the speed is usually also higher than that of the lead-shell, so that the wear will also be more.

                        If you can read, then read my comment posted above.
                      9. 0
                        9 March 2015 14: 37
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        More wear is caused by bullets with a higher speed and greater hardness of the core,

                        Bullets with a high coefficient of friction lead to more wear - as an example, tracers, due to the design having a long leading part.
                        Hardness matters only for special-specific bullets such as the surrogate German P.08 SE or our first armor-piercing gun for PMa of the late 70s.
                        In the bulk of the armor-piercing shells, the core is separated from the shell by a soft shirt - earlier they used lead or aluminum, now it is mainly polyethylene - as a result, when shooting the barrel, it is absolutely purple from which the core is made of tungsten or plasticine - this does not affect barrel wear.
                      10. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 16: 26
                        It is only for fools that the barrel does not care (as you wrote - "violet"), for normal bullets the total hardness of a sheathed bullet made of lead is less than that of any bullet with a solid core and its wear is correspondingly greater, read any forum of hunters and make sure it is ignorance.
                      11. anomalocaris
                        0
                        9 March 2015 17: 17
                        Well, if these forums gather the same teachers, "physics", then they are clearly not worth reading. You can also watch REN-TV for a future dream.
                      12. 0
                        9 March 2015 17: 57
                        Hear the light of scientific knowledge
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        normal cumulative hardness of the lead bullet shell only
                        - still more confused - "horse people mixed up in a heap" - in my uncle's head shell bullets with "lead only" bullets were cooked into one porridge - if you go, you have learned the materiel before the start.
                      13. Robespierre9
                        0
                        9 March 2015 19: 18
                        DO NOT be rude, boy. Materiel must be taught just to you.
                      14. The comment was deleted.
                      15. anomalocaris
                        0
                        11 March 2015 14: 44
                        Kids, what’s my personal moderator, what Robespierp ... Wouldn’t you go to x, y, th?
                      16. -1
                        11 March 2015 15: 24
                        Quote: anomalocaris
                        But would you go to x, y, th?

                        And doubts took me, it turns out _ Right Chinese!
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. +2
      7 March 2015 10: 51
      Read more. 15000 are the requirements of the ToR. A real resource with guaranteed 18000 overlap.
      1. anomalocaris
        0
        7 March 2015 10: 59
        Everything is correct, in TK the heap-cutting ratio is halved.
        1. 0
          7 March 2015 11: 33
          I dare say, it is not set, it is allowed. We are unlikely to see real numbers of loss of accuracy in survivability tests. But the fact that with the loss of accuracy is allowed to drill the barrel to a shallow depth is clear. Accuracy falls due to wear of the muzzle. Where the gases erupt right after the cut of the bullet and the cut of the muzzle of the barrel.
          1. anomalocaris
            0
            7 March 2015 15: 14
            Accuracy is reduced due to wear of the muzzle

            The wear of the pool entrance also has a no lesser effect, because it is precisely its correct geometry that determines how the bullet will crash into rifling. And the total wear of the barrel, and the wear of the chamber ...
            1. +1
              7 March 2015 15: 22
              Quote: anomalocaris
              No less impact


              Smaller ... without comments.
              1. anomalocaris
                0
                7 March 2015 15: 33
                Smaller ... without comments.

                Why so? Or is there nothing special to comment on?
                Depreciation of the muzzle of the barrel has, of course, a greater influence, but the ones I have listed are also important.
                1. +2
                  7 March 2015 15: 59
                  Too lazy to draw schemes and climb into the library for citation. I don’t remember at all the classics who would talk about the deterioration of the pool entrance. Talked about precision manufacturing chamber and the quality of the bullet entry in terms of the impact on the accuracy and accuracy of weapons. It is a fact. But wear? Firstly, the temperature tap in the chamber is the most powerful, there is practically no gas flow. Secondly, the transition of the rifling into the chamber is very smooth. And at the muzzle, in the annular gap between the bullet and the barrel, high-temperature gases break through at high speed. As a result, that corner, which is formed between the trunk cut and the channel, heats up sharply. First, cementation of this area occurs, the hardness increases and it begins to crumble. As a result, gases are torn between the barrel and the bullet unevenly and slightly deflect the bullet. It is enough to countersink or drill a bullet exit and accuracy is restored. In artillery, they simply simply saw off the tip of the barrel and that’s it.
                  1. anomalocaris
                    +1
                    7 March 2015 16: 09
                    I don’t remember at all the classics who would talk about the deterioration of the pool entrance.

                    Meanwhile, the alignment of the barrel bore and the bullet is a very important indicator that has a significant effect on heaping. Another conversation is that the load on the barrel in this place at the time of the shot is not so significant. For the pressure has not reached a maximum, and the bullet has not yet gained speed.
    7. The comment was deleted.
  9. 0
    7 March 2015 09: 44
    Thanks for the interesting article.
  10. +2
    7 March 2015 10: 58
    one of the most important features of the AK assault rifle: preliminary, in the radial direction, shift of the sleeve after firing before it begins to be extracted from the chamber. When moving backward to the length of free travel, the bolt frame only turned the bolt to the left, without moving it in the axial direction. At the same time, the bore continued to be locked, and the sleeve was rotated in the chamber along with the bolt.


    A deuce to Mr. Monetschikov for ignorance of the materiel.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. 0
    7 March 2015 12: 14
    thank . good article. once again confirming - for me the merits of AK.
  13. 0
    7 March 2015 13: 05
    Well, I'll put in my five cents. Readers should pay attention that the article is not new. Since then, a lot of things have happened - for example, Galil Ace has appeared, who is now actively taking over South America and Asia.
    The authors also have a contradiction - on the one hand, the cutter is bad and outdated, but they immediately note that it is thanks to it that the machine is more reliable. Well and so.
    1. +1
      7 March 2015 13: 37
      Quote: Pimply
      Galil Ace appeared

      I wanted to be interested in the cost of one sample and about how much the contract would cost, well, for 10 thousand trunks, 7.62x39.
      1. +1
        7 March 2015 15: 05
        Quote: marshes
        Quote: Pimply
        Galil Ace appeared

        I wanted to be interested in the cost of one sample and about how much the contract would cost, well, for 10 thousand trunks, 7.62x39.

        Everything depends on the party right there. Vietnam and Colombia just ate ACE factories and made them at home.
      2. +2
        7 March 2015 15: 14
        Quote: marshes
        I wanted to be interested in the cost of one sample and about how much the contract would cost, well, for 10 thousand trunks, 7.62x39.

        Too many points that affect the price - the volume of the order, the degree of localization, who purchases, who produces, etc. There is, for example, production in Colombia.

        Well let's give an example. For example, in Vietnam it was a question of creating an enterprise capable of producing up to 50 of thousands of automatic machines a year. The Israeli proposal was 170 million dollars against 250 million among Russians. There they will produce the same Negev, Tavor, Uzi.

        Guatemala purchased 3000 from Galil ACE from IWi worth 4,6 million US dollars. That is a little more than 1000 US dollars (while it is not known how much spare parts say). Retail in the US in the civilian market - from $ 1,749.00. That is, you see for yourself - the fluctuations are very strong.
        1. 0
          8 March 2015 10: 49
          Quote: Pimply
          . For example, in Vietnam it was a question of creating an enterprise capable of producing up to 50 thousand automatic machines a year.

          I’m wondering, you and Vietnam created a joint venture in the likeness of a joint venture. Cheap labor, a relatively large market — Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia itself ... Do you have a share of orders?
          1. 0
            8 March 2015 11: 20
            Quote: marshes

            I’m wondering, you and Vietnam created a joint venture in the likeness of a joint venture. Cheap labor, a relatively large market — Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia itself ... Do you have a share of orders?

            Here I’m straight, I have a share of the orders. It would be nice 8)
            1. 0
              8 March 2015 11: 30
              Quote: Pimply
              Here I’m straight, I have a share of the orders. It would be nice 8)

              I am just generalizing. smile
              There is still interest in ammunition.
              And then, already from 2006 of the year everyone is trying to establish the production of cartridges for small arms.
              1. 0
                8 March 2015 12: 58
                Quote: marshes
                I am just generalizing.
                There is still interest in ammunition.
                And then, already from 2006 of the year everyone is trying to establish the production of cartridges for small arms.

                Nekhai will buy a factory. The level of quality there is the highest; the American army bought Israeli ammunition - and that says something.
                1. Robespierre9
                  0
                  9 March 2015 01: 56
                  What did you buy ammunition equipment in the USA, and then sell it in the USA? wassat
                  1. 0
                    9 March 2015 12: 26
                    Quote: Robespierre9
                    What did you buy ammunition equipment in the USA, and then sell it in the USA?

                    Thick
                    1. Robespierre9
                      -1
                      9 March 2015 14: 56
                      Yes, there’s simply nothing more to say, that’s all, it’s not fat at all, you just have everything under a license. What is the point then to buy junk if you can buy the same technology as yours, but not from you, but from those from whom you took. I understand some embargoes and all that - so sell them to them. wassat
                      1. 0
                        9 March 2015 15: 47
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Yes, there’s simply nothing more to say, that’s all, it’s not fat at all, you just have everything under a license. What is the point then to buy junk if you can buy the same technology as yours, but not from you, but from those from whom you took. I understand some embargoes and all that - so sell them to them.

                        You see, arguments should be given when there is something to answer. But is it worth stupidity? There is only perhaps neighing with you, dear little friend, and from your attempts to trolling;)
                      2. 0
                        9 March 2015 16: 55
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Quote: Robespierre9
                        Yes, there’s simply nothing more to say, that’s all, it’s not fat at all, you just have everything under a license. What is the point then to buy junk if you can buy the same technology as yours, but not from you, but from those from whom you took. I understand some embargoes and all that - so sell them to them.

                        You see, arguments should be given when there is something to answer. But is it worth stupidity? There is only perhaps neighing with you, dear little friend, and from your attempts to trolling;)

                        That's what all the same, Eugene is good, unlike his older friend from Kaifa, so that you can see his good upbringing. After all, the Jewish and St. Petersburg intelligentsia. But apparently he had to fight with the local guys in Ligovka and get lule from them.
                      3. 0
                        9 March 2015 20: 03
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        But apparently he and on Ligovka had to fight with local guys and get lule from them.

                        And again - thick 8) Well, somehow we need to be more elegant, thinner, wisely. And then so predictably 8)))
                      4. -1
                        9 March 2015 22: 32
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Quote: Krasmash
                        But apparently he and on Ligovka had to fight with local guys and get lule from them.

                        And again - thick 8) Well, somehow we need to be more elegant, thinner, wisely. And then so predictably 8)))

                        It’s clear that everyone got the meaning. And on the school photo there is such a smiling kind guy.
    2. anomalocaris
      +2
      7 March 2015 15: 06
      The authors also have a contradiction - on the one hand, the cutter is bad and outdated, but they immediately note that it is thanks to it that the machine is more reliable. Well and so.

      The mill is not bad and not outdated, it is simply much less suitable for mass production because it is much more expensive than casting or stamping. This is especially true for complex profiles. Now, with the proliferation of CNC machines and a decrease in their cost, manufacturing costs have fallen, and productivity has grown, but it is still very far from stamping.
      About the quality. For more than ten years, the USSR has been practicing the technology of volumetric hot stamping of AK receiver boxes. Worked out only at the end of 50's. This is a very difficult question.
      1. 0
        7 March 2015 17: 41
        Quote: anomalocaris
        The mill is not bad and not outdated, it is simply much less suitable for mass production because it is much more expensive than casting or stamping. This is especially true for complex profiles. Now, with the proliferation of CNC machines and a decrease in their cost, manufacturing costs have fallen, and productivity has grown, but it is still very far from stamping.
        About the quality. For more than ten years, the USSR has been practicing the technology of volumetric hot stamping of AK receiver boxes. Worked out only at the end of 50's. This is a very difficult question.

        That's just the point. Both technologies have their pros and cons.
        1. anomalocaris
          +3
          7 March 2015 19: 26
          That's just the point. Both technologies have their pros and cons.

          Exactly. If the task is to make several hundred copies, then there is no point in bothering with die forging or precision injection molding. But if we are talking about tens of thousands or even millions of pieces, then milling no longer passes.
          I have said more than once, but I will repeat it again: any machine is a compromise between the desired and the possible. Moreover, at minimal cost.
  14. +1
    7 March 2015 13: 10
    As Vysotsky sang, there is a quarter of our people.
  15. +3
    7 March 2015 14: 04
    I do not like such articles, the generally accepted truths are turned upside down. Here is about the same milled receiver, yes, the resource increases and the rigidity is higher, but we are not talking about sports and non-collection weapons, first of all, this is the laboriousness of manufacturing (and not what volumes of it not optimized if we take into account the depreciation of the "fancy" machines and especially the cutters for them). Secondly, this is the mass, the whole world at that time switched to welded stamping. At the same time, the weight of the barrel is justified by the mythical "heat capacity" (again, "features of the DB theater" , you might think they are very different in the Kirghiz or Turkmen SSR), but meanwhile, the leadership of the "IDF" simply rested on barrel grenades (as in the front MTO on one parody armored product) for firing which the machine gun required increased strength, so their infantrymen pulled 1kg more than the Arabs. (and you also need to take beer), for opening which, in my opinion, a bayonet-knife is better suited. They can also open canned food !!! sights on the receiver cover of the AK and its clones I consider a technical crime, since this part (with its optimal weight) cannot be rigidly fixed, moreover, it is highly susceptible to thermal deformations. "Galil" refers to a rather mediocre "clones" of AK. In my opinion, from an engineering point of view, the Polish machine guns can be considered the standard, but I do not know anything about the quality of their manufacture.
    1. 0
      7 March 2015 15: 26
      Quote: Argon
      for firing which the machine gun required increased strength, here their infantrymen were dragging on 1kg more than the Arabs. (

      In fact, Galilon, who was in service with the infantry units, did not differ much in weight from the AKM. 8) Yes, and full-fledged Galil - too.

      Quote: Argon
      That's about the same milled receiver, but the resource is increased and the rigidity is higher, but we are not talking about sports and non-collection weapons,

      Exactly. Not about sports. So, for a number of parameters, the welded-stamped box was not so good. It was cheaper for mass production and somewhat lighter - this is its main advantage.

      Quote: Argon
      I consider the sights on the cover of the receiver of the AK and its clones to be a technical crime, since this part (at its optimal weight) cannot be rigidly fixed, besides it is highly susceptible to thermal deformations.

      That is true. But Galili was imprisoned for the use of Elbit Falcon collimators.

      Quote: Argon
      In my opinion, from an engineering point of view, Polish machines can be considered the standard, but I don’t know about the quality of their manufacture.

      If you don’t know about the quality of manufacture, then how can you consider it a standard?

      Quote: Argon
      At the same time, the weight of the barrel is justified by the mythical "heat capacity" (again, "the features of the theater DB", you might think they are very different in the Kyrgyz or Turkmen SSR)

      Do not know why the barrel is heavier?
  16. +10
    7 March 2015 14: 13
    On the ARM bipod there is a device for cutting wire and ... opening bottles. To open the bottles, you can use weapons without devices! For example, Makarov - we put the gun on the slide stop and grab the cork, as shown in the photo. It remains only to pull the gun by the handle up and that's it - the bottle is openlaughing
    1. +4
      7 March 2015 14: 38
      Yes, I had to use PM for this purpose. Especially the waiter's eyes amused when he dragged to us "Zhigulevskoe" in bottles, but forgot about the opener, or "scored" - he didn't know.
    2. 0
      8 March 2015 20: 04
      Sam did this repeatedly. It’s good that the authorities didn’t burn, otherwise I would get a lyuley drinks
  17. 0
    7 March 2015 15: 13
    Quote: Robespierre9
    Do not distort, because ISIS Russia definitely has nothing but image losses for its weapons, and here - direct export, these are completely different things, do not you think wink ?

    Export? Well, for the especially lazy.
    http://www.fort.vn.ua/
    1. Robespierre9
      +2
      7 March 2015 15: 59
      Answered you above.
  18. +3
    7 March 2015 15: 37
    The Uzi was supposed to go out of use in Tsakhal because of the large number of accidents in tanks, self-propelled guns and other vehicles, because with strong blows it shoots itself. The Israeli infantry platoon has always been armed with several types of weapons and the commander’s platoon was obliged to use it when, where, what. FN was always for grenade throwing and targeted use, but it is bulky and not convenient (FN of those years).
    So in the platoon were Uzi, Fn for grenade throwing, Fn normal, MAG and M16 in addition or as a replacement for ordinary FN. Big mess. Not always all fighters knew how to use any weapon enough, therefore they were not mutually replaceable.
    That is why Galil was needed to unify the use of weapons by soldiers, and to replace personal weapons in cars. I’ll let you calculate for yourself the saving of time and resources on training soldiers, and on stopping self-shots, but I’ll tell you IMHO.
    I IMHU .. (as it is in Russian) that a soldier's personal weapon should be such that after a twenty-kilometer march, and a two-kilometer run, an infantryman can raise his weapon and shoot offhand towards the enemy, and if not hit, then at least lower his head ... The first Galil did not meet this requirement. But he was a great replacement for FN Romat (who was shooting grenades). (By the way, what kind of beer? In Israel? Yes, on the battlefield? You are crazy, gentlemen. That was then and now was a gimik.) The protrusion above the bipod on the "opener" was intended to raise the barbed wire, if it was not cut. The Arab fortifications were surrounded by many tons of wire.
    With the advent of the M203 and the barrel grenade in the M16, the Galil in the infantry was out of work, according to which I described IMHO. And for those M4 and even more so the brand is much better. Sorry AKM fans, but this is what my combat experience says.
  19. 0
    7 March 2015 16: 02
    And in general, is there not too much flattery for Galilo that the Kalashnikov allegedly turned into him?
  20. +1
    7 March 2015 18: 45
    Quote: Basarev
    Jews idiots, once they let women into the army and throwing them to the front. After all, it is clear that a woman is primarily a mother. And throwing women into the very grinding means depriving themselves of the future in the person of the next generations.


    Each country with its history has its own principles and corresponding geopolitical attitudes. So this is the business of Israel. In their Middle East scenario, such a mess that you’ll get the hell out of it.
  21. +2
    7 March 2015 20: 20
    Russian weapons have always been and stay No. 1 !!
  22. +4
    7 March 2015 20: 49
    The article is an unambiguous plus from me - THE FIRST TIME THE AUTHOR SHOWN THE MAIN FEATURE OF THE DESIGN OF AK !!! No matter how many articles were considered, no one said a word. And most importantly, here it is!
    "Following MT Kalashnikov, Israeli gunsmiths embodied in Galile one of the most important features of the AK assault rifle: preliminary, in the radial direction, shift of the cartridge case after firing before the start of its extraction from the chamber. When retreating to the free travel length, the bolt carrier is only turned the bolt to the left without moving it in the axial direction. At the same time, the bore continued to remain locked, and the sleeve turned in the chamber along with the bolt.This made it possible, firstly, to prevent the rupture of the sleeve, due to the release of residual pressure in the chamber, and secondly , even if the chamber is heavily soiled, remove deformed or burnt cases. " (end of quote)

    Now I am translating it for those who are not in the know - after the shot, the bolt frame moves back, TURNING THE CASE IN THE CARTRIDGE, as if unscrewing it. At the same time, the shutter remains in place, turning the sleeve with the ejector tooth. And only when the bolt rotates so that it disengages from the receiver, only then, previously turned, the sleeve begins to come out of the chamber. That is why the AK is so reliable. For the first time in 50 years of reading such articles, the first author pointed out the main feature of AK!
    1. 0
      7 March 2015 21: 55
      Quote: akm8226
      TURNING THE CASE IN THE CARTRIDGE,

      Forced to disappoint you, the sleeve does not turn. She is tightly imprinted in the chamber. It is impossible to turn such a sleeve with any ejector tooth. Only if instead of a cartridge to drive an empty sleeve and then somehow manage to see it with your own eye.
      The shutter does not remain in place. It moves due to a slight bevel on the combat stop, as a result, the longitudinal movement of the bolt frame turns into the same shutter movement, but with much less movement. How many times less is this movement, so many times more is the force stripping the sleeve. The solution is known since the first rifled rifles under a unitary cartridge. Mr. Monetchikov has long covered his head with ash for this blooper.
      In addition, in the opposite direction, this mechanism works in exactly the same way. That is, presses the cartridge with great effort before closing the shutter.

      In all AR-shaped this element is absent. It really is.

      1. anomalocaris
        +1
        7 March 2015 22: 50
        The solution is known since the first rifled rifles under a unitary cartridge.

        Since the time of the Mauser 1871 model.
      2. 0
        8 March 2015 21: 58
        I have to disappoint you, the sleeve still turns. The word "turns" should not be interpreted as a complete revolution of the liner - first, it is driven by the torque from the bolt by means of the ejector tooth. We draw a diagram - the bolt is locked, the frame is in the extreme forward position, the sleeve is locked by the bolt through two lugs on the receiver. Shot. Powder gases drove the bullet along the barrel, the bullet passed the gas outlet and the gases drove the bolt carrier back. I will note that the bullet is still going along the barrel at this moment. The bolt has traveled back about 25 mm - and what happens at this moment? And the fact that there is still pressure in the barrel, it presses on the bottom of the sleeve, the bolt carrier, by means of the ejector tooth, tends to turn the sleeve - the bolt has no other way as soon as it rotates by sliding angular protrusions along the same hollows in the frame - and as soon as the bolt is released from the lugs, the sleeve is already pulled off from its place by the torque from the ejector tooth - and there is a moment, you will not go anywhere here - and, supported by residual pressure in the barrel, simply must fly out of the chamber. So to say that the cartridge case rotates while standing in the chamber is somewhat incorrect - let's just say, it is struggling to do so. But as soon as the lugs are fixed, it will still rotate. It simply has no other way, according to the AK kinematics.
        So then ...
    2. +2
      7 March 2015 23: 04
      Quote: akm8226
      TURNING THE CASE IN THE CARTRIDGE,

      And now a question from the school section of mechanics - imagine how an ejector that does not have a fulcrum on the sleeve is able to turn a "stuck" (that is, a burnt or blown sleeve) in the chamber.
      Quote: akm8226
      Now I translate for those who are not in the know

      This cartoon about a miracle turn was launched 20 years ago by someone who had heard about preliminary stragging by turning in the AK but didn’t understand how it worked and launched a bike about a magical ejector turning a sleeve. Now try to answer a few simple questions.
      1. The bulk of modern assault rifles and assault rifles have a bolt rotation lock and a spring-loaded ejector, but for some reason only AK and systems based on its bolt assembly have a miraculous rotation of the sleeve - I wonder why? in other systems (for example, AP-15), the same shutter, when unlocked, rotates in place and there is an ejector.
      2.the second question - already closer to the topic - when switching to the production of cartridges with a varnished sleeve, due to not working out the coating technology and the composition of the varnish, the first batches of such cartridges gave a lot of delays both in sending and in removing, in view of this, in the design of the AKM was changed aimed at reliable operation with varnished sleeves - one of them was an increase in the pitch of the spiral on the lugs of the bolt and receiver liner from 3 mm per revolution for AK to 6 mm for AKM - I wonder what this "helicity" affects and how it is connected with the extraction of "problem" sleeves?
      Well, and "practical work" - we take the AKM or AK-74, disconnect the store, turn the store window upwards and slowly, literally by millimeters, move the bolt carrier back - and we observe a miracle, and at the same time we realize how the initial movement is realized in the AK, if we don't understand process we are looking for in the school physics textbooks in the mechanics section of the description of the worm gear.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
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      4. 0
        8 March 2015 08: 53
        And, the main evidence of the absence of sleeve rotation is the characteristic traces on the bottom of the sleeve of all AKmoids from the rotational movement of the ejector.
        1. anomalocaris
          0
          8 March 2015 10: 21
          I’ll tell you a secret, exactly the same traces have all the shells, shot from a weapon with a rotary bolt, with a thrower mounted on it. The difference is only in the length of this track. winked
          1. 0
            8 March 2015 11: 26
            Nope, not all, systems based on the Mauser 98 shutter with a "correct" ejector do not have them, since there the ejector, although fixed on the shutter, does not turn with it. wink
            1. anomalocaris
              0
              8 March 2015 13: 09
              Not correctly expressed. It was necessary to write: "with an ejector rotating with the shutter." It happens that he described himself.
              1. +1
                8 March 2015 13: 59
                So I understood - with the Mauser this was not a "claim" but a light joke of humor. wink
      5. Robespierre9
        +1
        9 March 2015 02: 58
        There is no such section at school, this is a minimum of vocational schools, in addition there is a regular screw (bevels on locking elements), a worm is a gear and a screw, i.e. a little different.
  23. 0
    8 March 2015 11: 56
    I was quite shot from Galil in the late 80s and early 90s.
    Not a very good thing. Sight from M-16 on the barrel lid
    the boxes were constantly moving from vibrations and the weapon was "mowed".
    All the bullets, it seems, are heaped, but everything is away from the center of the target.
    And heavy, infection.
    Long M-16 ("broom"), with all its misfires, shot exactly "in the bull's eye",
    without the slightest return and was easy. Although the length of the weapon interfered with
    transport and trenches.
  24. +4
    8 March 2015 15: 34
    I never cease to be amazed - even American articles devoted to the M-16's unreliability, which has already become the talk of the town, are probably numbered in dozens, only the Jews on the M-16 Internet forums have a magnificent machine gun. Either this is some kind of trolling with a national flavor, or highly specialized weapon chauvinism, a la "well, a Jewish warrior cannot be in the hands of a Jewish warrior - the thunderstorms of all camel drivers in the area are in the hands of a bad machine gun"
    1. 0
      8 March 2015 15: 40
      Quote: DarkRiver
      I never cease to be amazed - even American articles devoted to the M-16's unreliability, which has already become the talk of the town, are probably numbered in dozens, only the Jews on the M-16 Internet forums have a magnificent machine gun. Either this is some kind of trolling with a national flavor, or highly specialized weapon chauvinism, a la "well, a Jewish warrior cannot be in the hands of a Jewish warrior - all the camel drivers in the area are in the hands of a bad machine gun


      Boy, did you hold M-ku in your hands?
      1. +1
        8 March 2015 15: 42
        Mon ami, in the context of the topic I can’t help but answer the question with the question - did you hold the Kalnash of the year 1953 in your hands? Which also shot at the same time. I am.
        1. 0
          8 March 2015 15: 52
          Just the IDF correctly uses the M-16,
          revealing its main advantage - accuracy.
          The IDF is strictly prohibited fire bursts. Only single.
          And sighting. We were taught "two". Breath holding - two rounds in a row.

          Soaking in bursts from the M-16 makes no sense. To do this, came up with machine guns.
          1. +1
            8 March 2015 15: 55
            voyaka uh
            It’s interesting, but who uses AK to shoot exclusively in bursts?
            When always and everywhere, they are taught TWO rounds, as they call it, a short, aimed line, and long, in other conditions, which are also taught when and how to apply it.
          2. +2
            8 March 2015 16: 03
            in the same way they teach to shoot conscripts in the Russian Federation, cut off shots by 2-3. As M-16 do not use, the principle of gas venting by default in M-16 implies less reliability, well, there’s no getting around it.
            1. 0
              9 March 2015 11: 22
              for: DarkRiver
              I will not hide, M-16 gives a misfire. Mainly due to
              defects of stores, but even so, it is not known why - there have been.
              But they are eliminated by a simple twitching of the shutter, jamming is not
              It was. I note that the M-16, unlike the AK, runs dry, no need to lubricate.
              We did not carry the oiler.
              1. 0
                9 March 2015 17: 04
                Quote: voyaka uh
                I note that the M-16, unlike the AK, works dry, no need to lubricate.


                Sometimes, from the world's nonsense, even hands drop. Testing for several thousand shots without lubrication is a standard type of test for any weapon in the Russian Federation.
              2. +1
                9 March 2015 17: 09
                Quote: voyaka uh
                I will not hide, M-16 gives a misfire. Mainly due to
                defects of stores, but even so, it is not known why - there have been.


                That is, the store to M-16 is what is left-handed, not a weapon, which you have to use only from circumstances. The rifle has nothing to do with it.
                1. 0
                  9 March 2015 20: 06
                  Quote: bunta
                  That is, the store to M-16 is what is left-handed, not a weapon, which you have to use only from circumstances. The rifle has nothing to do with it.

                  No, just the whole question is in the standards of use. But the theme with the shops is well-known and they have been upgraded long ago. Just saving led to the use of old stores in exercises.
            2. 0
              9 March 2015 12: 29
              Quote: DarkRiver
              in the same way they teach to shoot conscripts in the Russian Federation, cut off shots by 2-3. As M-16 do not use, the principle of gas venting by default in M-16 implies less reliability, well, there’s no getting around it.

              True, but this does not mean that it is a system that wedges at the sight of a grain of sand
        2. 0
          9 March 2015 12: 27
          Quote: DarkRiver
          Mon ami, in the context of the topic I can’t help but answer the question with the question - did you hold the Kalnash of the year 1953 in your hands? Which also shot at the same time. I am.

          I am. And repeatedly. We specifically studied them, in the company was as a permanent trunk for training. But we are talking about Ms and about your ignorance regarding this weapon.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Robespierre9
                -1
                9 March 2015 15: 45
                Quote: Pimply
                As for the Georgians - well, the purchase of cheap Turkish cartridges

                YOU were in Georgia, didn’t hold cartridges? wassat Clearly justify?
                Quote: Pimply
                and arches from Bushmaster, which again is not an army supplier - well, who would doubt the result.

                Again, did you keep them to say something here about their reliability? Commercial in America is even more reliable than the army.
                1. -1
                  9 March 2015 16: 53
                  Quote: Robespierre9
                  Quote: Pimply
                  As for the Georgians - well, the purchase of cheap Turkish cartridges
                  YOU were in Georgia, didn’t hold cartridges? Clearly justify?
                  Quote: Pimply
                  and arches from Bushmaster, which again is not an army supplier - well, who would doubt the result.
                  Again, did you keep them to say something here about their reliability? Commercial in America is even more reliable than the army.


                  Go on baby. Still fist like that wave 8) Your ignorance and amateurism is even more noticeable 8))
                  1. Robespierre9
                    0
                    9 March 2015 19: 25
                    And the minuses poses Vasya Schneilerson, therefore, right? Here someone else waves his fists. When you, by your own arrogance and forehead, see much at once, you do not hold an honest discussion, do not hold.
      2. anomalocaris
        +2
        8 March 2015 17: 37
        Boy, did you hold M-ku in your hands?

        Well, I held it in my hands, even shot, and then disassembled and cleaned it. My opinion is the ideal machine for a shooting gallery, it is of little use for a normal war. The piston engine option is perhaps more practical, but I only watched it in the pictures.
        To be honest, weary already held, did not hold ...
        1. 0
          9 March 2015 11: 13
          Somehow I didn’t have to shoot at the shooting range.
          But in exercises with the support of tanks, we usually fired
          2 X 8 rounds of live ammunition (standard: taking 2 high-rises, on
          each 3 rows of targets).
          And the tanks covered us with dust completely, like dumplings were white.
          And our guns too.

          And, I’m grieving you laughing M-16s worked fine.
        2. 0
          9 March 2015 12: 34
          Quote: anomalocaris
          Well, I held it in my hands, even shot, and then disassembled and cleaned it. My opinion is the ideal machine for a shooting gallery, it is of little use for a normal war. The piston engine option is perhaps more practical, but I only watched it in the pictures.
          To be honest, we were already tired, I didn’t hold it ..

          And I was tired of stupid things about M-ok, especially the latest modifications. Nonsense, which refers to the modifications of the very first and long fixed.
          What is normal war in your understanding? That always interests me. For three years I had it in different versions in combat conditions, with field exits, dirt and so on. and proved to be a reliable weapon. Some problems could arise when using old stores with a weakened spring. This is the only one.
          1. anomalocaris
            +1
            9 March 2015 13: 40
            And I was tired of stupid things about M-ok, especially the latest modifications

            Have you heard such statements from me? Or not?
            And about the M-16 and its derivatives. You can say anything to me, but the principle of the gas outlet, implemented in it, is initially vicious. Firstly, it predetermines a huge dependence on the quality of the powder and its grade. Secondly, the removal of powder gases directly into the bolt frame unambiguously leads to a more intense thermal regime of the receiver and bolt group. Thirdly, the significant complexity and design and execution of the bolt group. Fourth, the location of the return mechanism in a rather flimsy stock, which makes it unsuitable for hand-to-hand combat and completely prevents the installation of a folding stock.
            Of the merits. Firstly, the convenience of the location of the controls. Secondly, the presence of a slide delay. Thirdly, an aperture sight with a large long sighting line (it is this factor that allows you and many others at every corner to yell about the fantastic heaping efficiency of the M-16).
            Yes, by the 90 years of the 20 century, the M-16 was licked almost to the maximum ideal. I don’t argue here, but if I have to, I’ll take advantage of AK.
            1. 0
              9 March 2015 15: 44
              Quote: anomalocaris
              Yes, by the 90 years of the 20 century, the M-16 was licked almost to the maximum ideal. I don’t argue here, but if I have to, I’ll take advantage of AK.

              Because 8 got used to it)
              It's all about habit, mythology and other cute little things. Well, and "but in a real war ..."
              1. anomalocaris
                0
                10 March 2015 08: 37
                Yeah. Can’t you answer all the other questions?
          2. Robespierre9
            0
            9 March 2015 15: 22
            Enough "suckers" to breed, you do not have new M-ok, your lies are crazy
            1. 0
              9 March 2015 15: 27
              Quote: Robespierre9
              Enough "suckers" to breed, you do not have new M-ok, your lies are crazy

              Another specialist was found. He served in Tsakhal, walked in warehouses, inspected the Yamakhi and came to the conclusion that "you have no new M-oks." Okay. Show us the delivery notes from the last deliveries from the USA and we will evaluate new ones or not.
              1. Robespierre9
                -1
                9 March 2015 15: 48
                I believe in my own eyes, for such a price as yours - only old rubbish, photo shaft, M-ok (Colt) is not on one - only one junk for 1 / 10 of their original price.
                1. 0
                  9 March 2015 16: 56
                  Quote: Robespierre9
                  I believe in my own eyes, for such a price as yours - only old rubbish, photo shaft, M-ok (Colt) is not on one - only one junk for 1 / 10 of their original price.

                  Listen, to hell with Russia FSB and SVR. You're the coolest of all, let's turn them around, set you up - such a saving of dough will be of use to the motherland as well. He sees everything, everything knows 8))
                  1. Robespierre9
                    -1
                    9 March 2015 19: 29
                    So the fact of the matter is that for 1/10 of the real price - only scrap metal, such as the Shermanovs that were only scrapped in the 60s.
  25. +1
    8 March 2015 16: 29
    Quote: anomalocaris
    There is enough scrap metal there. Since Soviet times. Unfortunately, we have supplied our Arab "brothers" with so much equipment that Israeli metallurgy will last for more than one year.
    But they really import pig iron.

    Israel got the Soviet scrap metal in such a wonderful quality that it didn’t even need to be re-melted, only Akhzaritov collected half a ton on the basis of this scrap metal, not counting the converted tanks. In my opinion, during the Yom Kippur war, about 800 intact (!) T-55s and T-62s were captured. So the sarcasm failed.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      8 March 2015 17: 34
      So the sarcasm failed.

      This is never sarcasm.
      In my opinion, during the Yom Kippur war, about 800 intact (!) T-55s and T-62s were captured.

      This whole and only during one war. And we gave the Arab "brothers" several thousand. And not only tanks, and half for nothing ...
  26. 0
    8 March 2015 20: 26
    And I thought that the Chinese are the main plagiarists
    1. 0
      8 March 2015 20: 58
      Quote: Alexy
      Chinese major plagiarists

      They are simply the most arrogant plagiarists, and here everything is kosher. Do not dig.
      hi
  27. +2
    9 March 2015 13: 48
    Quote: Pimply
    Quote: DarkRiver
    Mon ami, in the context of the topic I can’t help but answer the question with the question - did you hold the Kalnash of the year 1953 in your hands? Which also shot at the same time. I am.

    I am. And repeatedly. We specifically studied them, in the company was as a permanent trunk for training. But we are talking about Ms and about your ignorance regarding this weapon.

    Well, you can consider me arbitrarily illiterate, for God's sake, argue with the American military - http://abcdefgh.livejournal.com/1217448.html?thread=5471400 excerpts from the translation of the article in the Washington Post:
    - We did not recommend bursts of fire. Including because the probability of jamming increases.
    - What other "queues"? The M16 has a technically limited "queue" - no more than 3 rounds. Is not it?
    - Yes, but even such a short "burst" sharply increases the likelihood of jamming in a long firefight ...
    ___

    - Couldn't get yourself an AK right "there"?
    - You can’t. Only full-time weapons - in any conditions - should have been worn.
    - And what about "special forces"?
    - They can, because they are "licensed" for different types of weapons, including AK.
    - Of all the "different" ones prefer AK?
    - Yes, but at the same time they always have all sorts of convincing "excuses." The most popular of them is "so that the enemy does not distinguish us by the sound of the shot" ...
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 15: 43
      Quote: DarkRiver
      Well, you can consider me arbitrarily illiterate, for God's sake, argue with the American military - http://abcdefgh.livejournal.com/1217448.html?thread=5471400 excerpts from the translation of the article in the Washington Post:
      - We did not recommend bursts of fire. Including because the probability of jamming increases.
      - What other "queues"? The M16 has a technically limited "queue" - no more than 3 rounds. Is not it?
      - Yes, but even such a short "burst" sharply increases the likelihood of jamming in a long firefight ...
      ___

      - Couldn't get yourself an AK right "there"?
      - You can’t. Only full-time weapons - in any conditions - should have been worn.
      - And what about "special forces"?
      - They can, because they are "licensed" for different types of weapons, including AK.
      - Of all the "different" ones prefer AK?
      - Yes, but at the same time they always have all sorts of convincing "excuses." The most popular of them is "so that the enemy does not distinguish us by the sound of the shot" ...


      Dear little friend. You need to read not only what fits into your idea of ​​the world. To generate information without understanding the basic principles and missing the reasons is even more stupid.

      Single shooting is primarily an increase in accuracy and the saving of ammunition. If you think that saving the resource and reducing the likelihood of a wedge is stupid and proof that the wedge will be constant or with a high degree of probability, well, keep thinking like that 8)

      Each rifle has its own characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, including AK.
      1. Robespierre9
        0
        9 March 2015 19: 33
        Quote: Pimply
        Single shooting is primarily an increase in accuracy and the saving of ammunition.

        Buy yourself a carbine - and give the gun to the Arab, for you don’t spend ammo ... recourse
  28. +1
    9 March 2015 13: 54
    New Israeli rifle introduced in Germany
    09 March 2015, 11: 17

    The new Israeli rifle MZ-15
    Photo: from Israel Defense

    In these days in German Nuremberg, the IWA 2015 arms exhibition is taking place, which presents a new automatic rifle representing the further development of the American AR-15.

    The new version was named MZ-15, creatively developing the achievements of its predecessors - M-16 and AR-15.

    The MZ-15F is a 5,56 mm semi-automatic rifle with an aluminum casing. The rifle is available in different colors - black, desert brown, green and sand.

    The rifle is equipped with an optical sight and a folding sight.

    All parts of the rifle are produced by the Israeli company "Amtan Karmiel", which allows you to monitor the quality throughout the technological process, as well as meet all customer requirements.
    Amtan Carmel is one of the few factories in the world that produces all parts in one plant.
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 14: 31
      Something I was completely confused, who sold the license to whom? laughing

      "The firm Zbroyar decided to organize the assembly of its AR-10 and AR-15 rifles in Ukraine at the Mayak plant in Kiev. Here these American rifles began to be produced under the name MZ-10 and MZ-15. On April 14, 2014, the press service of Ukroboronprom spoke on the serial production of these weapons to provide them with the Ukrainian army. "

      Read more at http://eizvestia.com/armiya/full/832-shturmovye-vintovki-mz-10-i-mz-15
    2. The comment was deleted.
  29. 0
    9 March 2015 14: 10
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Somehow I didn’t have to shoot at the shooting range.
    But in exercises with the support of tanks, we usually fired
    2 X 8 rounds of live ammunition (standard: taking 2 high-rises, on
    each 3 rows of targets).
    And the tanks covered us with dust completely, like dumplings were white.
    And our guns too.

    And, I’m grieving you laughing M-16s worked fine.

    You need to understand that the above example is an example of the most extreme exploitation by the standards of Israel)) What about a couple of months mumbling around in the threshing floor somewhere in the jungle of southeast Asia or in the taiga? . I think even Pupyrchaty in this situation will choose AK only then will not tell anyone about it))
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 15: 10
      I wrote what I participated in. Dust and sand M-16 withstands.
      In water, we also washed them calmly (with soap in the tub). Do not rust.
      I don’t know about the rest.
    2. 0
      9 March 2015 15: 32
      Quote: DarkRiver
      You need to understand that the above example is an example of the most extreme exploitation by the standards of Israel)) What about a couple of months mumbling around in the threshing floor somewhere in the jungle of southeast Asia or in the taiga? . I think even Pupyrchaty in this situation will choose AK only then will not tell anyone about it))

      Well, the Arch was actually created taking into account the jungle of Southeast Asia. And she felt great there, in particular, in service with Thailand and a number of other countries, as well as in South America.

      But pulling by the ears - in the spirit of "the given example is an example of the most extreme exploitation by the standards of Israel" looks so childish ... Continue 8)
      1. anomalocaris
        +3
        9 March 2015 17: 28
        Well, the Arch was actually created taking into account the jungle of Southeast Asia. And she felt great there, in particular, in service with Thailand and a number of other countries, as well as in South America.

        Pimpled, here you do not need to drive, please. The first M-16 arriving in Vietnam cost the lives of many American soldiers. This is such a banal historical fact. Yes, then they licked it, brought it to mind the cartridge, trained the soldiers, but still, this is a parquet weapon. It may not be afraid of dust, but did you fall into a deep puddle with it?
        1. 0
          9 March 2015 20: 07
          Quote: anomalocaris
          but did you fall into a deep puddle with her?

          He has been sitting there for a long time.
        2. 0
          9 March 2015 20: 14
          Quote: anomalocaris
          Pimpled, here you do not need to drive, please. The first M-16 arriving in Vietnam cost the lives of many American soldiers. This is such a banal historical fact. Yes, then they licked it, brought it to mind the cartridge, trained the soldiers, but still, this is a parquet weapon. It may not be afraid of dust, but did you fall into a deep puddle with it?

          The very first, and the topic that arose there - the costs of introducing mass production. Refusal from chrome plating of a number of parts and from the corresponding cartridges for cheaper production. The very design of the rifle there was nothing to do with it, the correction of these shortcomings allowed M-ke to effectively serve in this war
          1. anomalocaris
            0
            10 March 2015 08: 49
            The very design of the rifle there was nothing to do with it, the correction of these shortcomings allowed M-ke to effectively serve in this war

            Yeah. Then, from the 70s, the piston system began to pile up ... Probably the system of removal into the bolt frame turned out to be extremely reliable.
    3. 0
      17 March 2015 18: 30
      Quote: DarkRiver
      What about a couple of months old grumbling headlong in a threshing floor somewhere in the jungle of southeast Asia or in the taiga?

      A video in the topic showing the worthlessness of the M-ok automation, in the conditions described by you. Only this time the Germans decided to omit the favorite M-ki of our opponents.
      1. 0
        17 March 2015 18: 37
        Of course, opponents will now write that they need to shake the rifle before shooting, but, if not shake, then a piece of aluminum alloy will stick out of the eye fellow
  30. 0
    9 March 2015 15: 19
    From the article:
    ... therefore, in 1969, they began to design a new model of individual infantry automatic weapons. Along with high combat characteristics and reliable operation of moving parts of automation, the new assault rifle required: conducting single and continuous fire; weight no more than 4–4,5 kg; range of a direct shot on the chest figure - at least 400 m; overall dimensions, providing free movement of the sample through the landing hatch of the Merkava Mk.1 tank, in which it was supposed to have a landing compartment for 10 fully equipped infantrymen.


    What did the author smoke? What other airborne squad for 10 infantrymen in the "Merkava" Mk-1? And where did the "Merkava" come from in 1969?
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 15: 29
      Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

      What did the author smoke? What other airborne squad for 10 infantrymen in the "Merkava" Mk-1? And where did the "Merkava" come from in 1969?

      TSSSSS! Do not tell them, this is SHOCK
    2. 0
      9 March 2015 16: 11
      "... through the landing hatch of the tank" Merkava "Mk.1, in which it was supposed to have an airborne squad for 10 fully equipped infantrymen ..."

      Well, probably, the author meant the 1970 project, based on the Centurion. The dates are exactly the same ...
      1. 0
        10 March 2015 10: 41
        Well, probably, the author meant the 1970 project, based on the Centurion. The dates are exactly the same ...


        When the first Galil prototype was demonstrated in 1969, the Merkava was not yet in the project.
        In any case, no one ever intended to use the Merkava as an armored personnel carrier.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. 0
      9 March 2015 17: 13
      In Merkava-1 and 2, the caliber of the gun was 105 mm (and shells
      stored in containers of 4), there was more space in the back than now.
      And there was room for an airborne squad.
      Not 10, frankly, but 6 people in full uniforms fit.
      Now you can squat behind ... 3 people,
      Well, one in the center under the tower (without patronage, bronik, etc.)
  31. 0
    9 March 2015 16: 17
    So what was normal galil or not?
  32. 0
    9 March 2015 16: 35
    Quote: Pimply
    Quote: DarkRiver
    Well, you can consider me arbitrarily illiterate, for God's sake, argue with the American military - http://abcdefgh.livejournal.com/1217448.html?thread=5471400 excerpts from the translation of the article in the Washington Post:
    - We did not recommend bursts of fire. Including because the probability of jamming increases.
    - What other "queues"? The M16 has a technically limited "queue" - no more than 3 rounds. Is not it?
    - Yes, but even such a short "burst" sharply increases the likelihood of jamming in a long firefight ...
    ___

    - Couldn't get yourself an AK right "there"?
    - You can’t. Only full-time weapons - in any conditions - should have been worn.
    - And what about "special forces"?
    - They can, because they are "licensed" for different types of weapons, including AK.
    - Of all the "different" ones prefer AK?
    - Yes, but at the same time they always have all sorts of convincing "excuses." The most popular of them is "so that the enemy does not distinguish us by the sound of the shot" ...


    Dear little friend. You need to read not only what fits into your idea of ​​the world. To generate information without understanding the basic principles and missing the reasons is even more stupid.

    Single shooting is primarily an increase in accuracy and the saving of ammunition. If you think that saving the resource and reducing the likelihood of a wedge is stupid and proof that the wedge will be constant or with a high degree of probability, well, keep thinking like that 8)

    Each rifle has its own characteristics, advantages and disadvantages, including AK.

    Yes, you already leave my person alone, I am small and illiterate, comment on the words of the amers that I quoted are also fools? Or do not fit into your idea of ​​the world? In my view of the world, a mechanism with one and a half times more parts and powder gases flying directly into the gate cannot, by definition, be more reliable, my ideas about the world are called logic. Single shooting is amazing, but for some reason, in the design of all machine guns and assault rifles, burst shooting is still provided, probably due to the meager design of the designers. I don’t think the M-16 is a mechanism by the shit machine, but if we talk about reliability, to say that it is close to AK is some kind of religious fanaticism, you can't call it otherwise.
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 17: 04
      Quote: DarkRiver
      In my view of the world, a mechanism with one and a half times more parts and powder gases flying directly into the gate cannot, by definition, be more reliable, my ideas about the world are called logic.

      Can. But that is another question.
      In fact, the question is different - what is the priority, what should prevail, and what is the degree of reliability. Most commentators haven’t seen M-ku in the eye, not aware of the real degree of its reliability and convenience (especially army versions), and suggest that this rifle runs in fear when it sees a grain of sand. I had a chance to use different ones, including old shops from the times of Vietnam. This is a reliable, comfortable, accurate weapon. Yes, the degree of its reliability is somewhat lower BY A NUMBER of parameters than AK. But I repeat - only in a row. And yes - the overall AK circuit is more reliable. But it also has a number of significant drawbacks, while often losing to M-ke in terms of weight, ergonomics, resource indicators, modality, and accuracy.

      Quote: DarkRiver
      to talk about reliability, to say that it is close to AK - this is some kind of religious fanaticism, you cannot call it otherwise.

      If we talk about reliability - yes, modern versions are quite suitable for reliability. Of course M-ka is not as omnivorous as AK. But the question is the need for such an omnivore in the modern army to the detriment of other indicators. The machine gun is primarily needed in order to hit the target and destroy the enemy, while being a convenient and reliable means of protecting a fighter. And convenience is just as important as reliability
      1. +2
        9 March 2015 17: 26
        Quote: Pimply
        If we talk about reliability - yes, modern versions are quite suitable for reliability. Of course M-ka is not as omnivorous as AK. But the question is the need for such an omnivore in the modern army to the detriment of other indicators. The machine gun is primarily needed in order to hit the target and destroy the enemy, while being a convenient and reliable means of protecting a fighter. And convenience is just as important as reliability

        Let me bring my own point of view.
        The question lies more in the plane of economy and psychology.
        1. On the basis of the AK, many models of small arms have been created and are still in service with the RA. And not only RA.
        2. In the history of the Red Army-SA-RA there was a precedent for the creation of good small arms, I mean SVT. The result was a very successful self-loading rifle. Traces of which, by the way, are traced in FN FAL. laughing
        Alas. Massive losses of weapons of the Red Army in the first year of the war forced the military-political leadership of the USSR to switch to cheaper, but no less effective submachine guns. Which not only armed the Red Army, but also "loaded" them with warehouses and arsenals.
        As an example - military operations in Donbass are conducted by the "warehouse arsenal" by 50-75%.
        1. 0
          9 March 2015 20: 20
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          The question lies more in the plane of economy and psychology.

          I agree. The question is also in habit and provision.

          Quote: stalkerwalker
          As an example - military operations in Donbass are conducted by the "warehouse arsenal" by 50-75%.

          Well, there are understandable reasons for this. Is the question worth listing?
          1. +2
            9 March 2015 20: 26
            Quote: Pimply
            Is the question worth listing?

            What for?
            The main thing is that there is a "consensus".
  33. 0
    9 March 2015 16: 48
    Quote: Pimply
    Quote: DarkRiver
    You need to understand that the above example is an example of the most extreme exploitation by the standards of Israel)) What about a couple of months mumbling around in the threshing floor somewhere in the jungle of southeast Asia or in the taiga? . I think even Pupyrchaty in this situation will choose AK only then will not tell anyone about it))

    Well, the Arch was actually created taking into account the jungle of Southeast Asia. And she felt great there, in particular, in service with Thailand and a number of other countries, as well as in South America.

    But pulling by the ears - in the spirit of "the given example is an example of the most extreme exploitation by the standards of Israel" looks so childish ... Continue 8)

    Well, yes, well, yes, and argumentation in the spirit of "held in hands - did not hold" is a demonstration of adult thinking)) Here on the topvar there was already an article again from an American citizen about how amazingly M-16 proved to be in Indochina.
    1. 0
      9 March 2015 20: 24
      Quote: DarkRiver
      Well, yes, well, yes, and argumentation in the spirit of "held in hands - did not hold" is a demonstration of adult thinking)) Here on the topvar there was already an article again from an American citizen about how amazingly M-16 proved to be in Indochina.

      The question is what to judge with aplomb about weapons, while using old information, excluding development.

      So in articles - you need to understand why, where and how the author writes the article, as well as who he is. The author of that article is not a random person, writes in a respected publication, and deliberately exaggerates, taking a more radical position to create controversy
  34. -1
    9 March 2015 22: 40
    Yeah ... the level of discussion is alarmingly low ... but in general even mechanical engineers, I'm not talking about gunsmiths, is there? And the impression is that I got to the forum for the third grade of the parish school.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      10 March 2015 03: 23
      There is. Unlike you, some of those here are both mechanics and gunsmiths ...
  35. Rex
    0
    10 March 2015 15: 30
    I decided to post some material - for those who wish. For ours - "theirs" data.
    Here is the original. A lot in Inglish.
    http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/Soldier%20Perspectives%20on%20Sm
    all%20Arms%20in%20Combat%20D0015259.A2.pdf
    Here the translations are not complete.
    http://kneejnick1.livejournal.com
    http://glockmeister.livejournal.com/582068.html