Military Review

Chrysanthemum-C - anti-tank flower

47
Perhaps people who occasionally communicate with the military from the armored forces, have heard a strange catchphrase: “To broken Tanks the enemy is overgrown with chrysanthemum. " Yes, it is not easy for an uninitiated person to understand why enemy broken tanks should grow with chrysanthemum. In fact, everything is quite simple, but only those who know what the real "Chrysanthemum" is mentioned in the proverb can appreciate the irony of the joke.


The first "Chrysanthemum-S" was developed in the mid-eighties. Developed engaged Kolomna design bureau. The general designer, who led the project - S.P. Invincible. Well, maybe it gives some mystery, but experts managed to create a really invincible weapon, which could not be compared with anything that was created by humanity at that time. July 1996 of the year fully proved this. After all, it was then that the general public was shown "Chrysanthemum-S". Under a modest floral name, a truly formidable weapon was concealed - a multipurpose missile system capable of hitting a target at any time of the day and in any weather.

No, even the most modern tank armor, could not withstand the terrible strike force of the Chrysanthemum-S missiles. There were no exception and tanks with dynamic armor, which had previously shown good results in the tests. Of course, the purpose of the missile complex could be not only tanks, ranging from light and high-speed to heavy, equipped with powerful armor. Also, "Chrysanthemum-C" is capable of destroying low-flying air targets and low-tonnage surface targets. Any reinforced concrete structures in which the enemy soldiers were hiding were also completely defenseless against the destructive power of these weapons.

The basis of "Chrysanthemum-S" is an infantry fighting vehicle with a five hundred horsepower engine. Due to this, the missile system can easily move at a speed of 45 kilometers per hour over difficult, rough terrain. On the track, it easily develops speed in 70 kilometers per hour. At the same time, a solid reserve of fuel allows it to overcome without refueling up to 600 kilometers! It is also important that the transition from the marching state to the combat "Chrysanthemum-S" can be surprisingly fast. As the military jokes, the Chrysanthemum blooms in twenty seconds.

Two rockets are constantly ready for battle. And they can be launched simultaneously, successfully hitting different targets at different distances. This makes the missile system especially popular.

Chrysanthemum-C - anti-tank flower


The unusual power of the missiles allows them to pierce any of the existing armor. In a direct collision at an angle of 90 degrees, it is able to penetrate monolithic armor covered with dynamic protection. Therefore, any existing armored vehicles are completely defenseless against this terrible weapon. Well, SP Nepovedimy and his team created a huge amount of military equipment, twenty-eight of which were put into service. But nevertheless Sergey the Invincible considers as the best his creation “Chrysanthemum-S”.

Well, it is quite justified. After all, not even an amazing penetrating power is the main advantage of this missile complex. The most interesting is the fact that “Chrysanthemum-C” is capable of destroying a target, regardless of whether its operators see it or not. And it doesn’t matter what obstructs the view - darkness, fog, snow or more serious obstacles.

Make this dream of all designers allowed the creation of a unique radar system. The locator creates an invisible radio beam, operating in the millimeter range. And when the beam finds the target, and the rocket starts, the unfortunate target has no chance. Release of a smoke screen, maneuverability, speed, or an attempt to escape - nothing will allow her to survive. Of course, the radio beam guidance is carried out without the participation of the operator - the person is simply not able to coordinate the rocket movement so clearly.

No other equipment in the world has a similar system. Only some Apache helicopters are equipped with a radar system operating in the three-millimeter range.

Experts say that it’s enough just three Chrysanthemum-S weapons to keep the enemy’s huge forces at a decent distance. Starting a battle, they are able to thwart the onslaught of a whole company of tanks. In a matter of seconds, about half of the company will be destroyed. And all this will happen before the enemy has time to come to his senses and take appropriate action!

"Chrysanthemum-C" is able to conduct a successful fire at a distance from 400 meters to 6 kilometers. So there are serious arguments in favor of the fact that she will keep the leading position in her class for several more years, simply without having worthy competitors.

Basic tth ptrk 9k123 "Chrysanthemum-S"

Maximum launch range ATGM 9М123: 5000 m
Maximum launch range ATGM 9М123-2: 6000 m
Minimum launch range: 400 m
Missile weight in TPK: kg 54
Rocket launch weight: 46 kg
Weight of cumulative warhead: 8.0 kg
Weight BB: 6.0 kg
Maximum rocket diameter: 152 mm
Maximum rocket length: 2.04 m
Maximum wingspan: 0.31 meter
Rocket engine: solid fuel
Rocket average cruising speed: about 400 m / s
Maximum armor penetration of a tandem cumulative warhead (homogeneous armor over NDZ at a meeting angle of 900): 1250 mm
Ammunition on PU: 15 missiles
Crew PU: 2 man
Base chassis PU 9P157-2: BMP - 3
Combat weight: less than 20 tons
Diesel engine power: 500 l. with. (660 hp)
Maximum speed on the highway: 70 km / h
Maximum speed on a dirt road: 52 km / h
Maximum speed afloat: 10 km / h
Cruising on the highway: at least 600 km

Author:
Photos used:
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com
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  2. Strashila
    Strashila 21 October 2013 08: 43 New
    +3
    Blessed is he who believes in an absolute weapon ... the enemy should not be considered idiots ... will come to his senses and answer. "The locator creates an invisible radio beam operating in the millimeter range." ... and what the author knows ... a visible radio beam. the enemy is not equipped with a warning system about the endowment with a laser or various radio-electro-magnetic and other other radiation. They have nothing to do in the field ... but in addition to other types of anti-tank weapons, it will be just wonderful.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 October 2013 09: 29 New
      +3
      They are designed specifically to act "alone in the field"
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 21 October 2013 09: 50 New
        +2
        Question to Lopatov .. And why "Chrysanthemums" have not yet become massive in the army? I have at home the 1999 issue of the "Technology of Youth" magazine, where this copy is adorned, and most likely it was created a few years earlier. It turns out almost 20 years ago ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 October 2013 10: 05 New
          +9
          By my answer I will violate the rules of the site - the prohibition of obscene expressions.
          So I will not say anything.
          1. papik09
            papik09 23 October 2013 06: 23 New
            0
            And put one letter and an ellipsis? laughing
        2. beard999
          beard999 21 October 2013 15: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: xetai9977
          Why "Chrysanthemums" have not yet become massive in the army?

          Mass SPTRK type "Chrysanthemum" will not be when. In any case, in comparison with SPTRK type "Storm" and "Cornet". The fact is that 9K123 is an army level complex, not a brigade level. However, the complex enters the troops.
          http://www.vz.ru/news/2011/12/13/546499.print.html
          http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/[email protected]
          http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20131007/968191410.html
          Quote: xetai9977
          issue of the journal "Technology of Youth" for 1999, where this copy flaunts

          This is unlikely. In this article, on the photo BM 9P157-3, which in 1999 simply did not exist. At that time, there was a BM 9P157-2 http://www.armyrecognition.com/customer/thierry/russia/khrizantema_s_03.JPG. In general, SPTRK "Chrysanthemum-S" consisting of 9P57-3 and ICD 9P157-4 was officially adopted only in 2005 (so in reality there is no "20 years ago"). Exclusively at the rumor level (Courage and ViF forums), we talked about the development of new ATGMs for the Chrysanthemum, to replace 9M123 missiles. But I personally haven’t met any official confirmation of this information.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 21 October 2013 18: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: beard999
            The fact is that 9K123 is an army level complex

            Can you tell me how many anti-tank brigades are in the RF Armed Forces?
            1. beard999
              beard999 21 October 2013 23: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Can you tell me how many anti-tank brigades are in the RF Armed Forces?

              Are there such people?
              In any case, in the SA, SPTRK "Sturm-S", was part of the anti-tank divisions of the army and front submission. Actually to replace 9K113 and created 9K123. I suppose that even now the full-time OSh of the units where “Chrysanthemum-S” goes, remained approximately the same, i.e. it’s not about “anti-tank brigades”, but about separate anti-tank divisions of the army / district subordination.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 22 October 2013 00: 28 New
                0
                Quote: beard999
                Are there such people?

                Were

                Quote: beard999
                In any case, in the SA, SPTRK "Sturm-S", was part of the anti-tank divisions of the army and front submission.

                There were none. There were brigades of district subordination and regiments as part of art. divisions.

                By the last years of Soviet power, the "Shturm-S" were replaced by "Contests" in separate anti-tank divisions of divisions and anti-tank batteries of motorized rifle regiments. At the moment, most of the anti-tank battalions of motorized rifle brigades are 1-2 "Assault" batteries and, accordingly, 2-1 anti-tank artillery batteries on the MT-12.

                There was a banal complete replacement of "Contests" with "Assaults". From top to bottom. And it is also necessary to replace the latter. For the reason that the cars are, to put it mildly, damp and outdated. Shooting only during the day, in conditions of good visibility, there is no possibility of changing the type of missile, although there are at least 4 types of them: cumulative, tandem, high-explosive, thermobaric, nasty optics, it is unrealistic to shoot at a tank for 5 km. There is no point in upgrading.
                1. beard999
                  beard999 22 October 2013 15: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  Were

                  That is, now no. Why then was the question of “anti-tank brigades”?
                  Quote: Spade
                  There were brigades of district subordination and regiments as part of art. divisions

                  Yes, probably it was. The thing is that I, at the State Military Center, have repeatedly observed the action of the Sturm-S SPTRK precisely in the division (if memory serves as part of 18 BM) from the MBO. Perhaps the division was not separate, but it was definitely army / district submission. The motorized rifle divisions of the Soviet era, in which the Sturm-S complexes were armed, are not exactly known to me.
                  Now there are artillery brigades. If its OSH was not shocked yet again, then it now has 9 BM 9P149 SPTRK Sturm-S http://specnaz.pbworks.com/w/page/17658137/%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%80 . Given the fact that “Chrysanthemum-S” was created specifically to replace the “Sturm-S”, it is possible that new complexes will arrive there in the first place. And as I said, it will never be massive when. Do you know how many artillery brigades we have?
                  Quote: Spade
                  By the last years of Soviet power, "Sturm-S" were replaced by "Competitions"

                  This is what I’ve heard for the first time. In any case, in the Taman division, and in the late 80s and early 90s, in service in a separate anti-tank battalion consisted of 9 BM 9P148, 8 MT-12 and 4 MT-12R guns towed on MT-LB, and in motorized rifle regiments it was 6 BM 9P148.
                  The massive replacement of "Competition" by "Sturm-S" began after the collapse of the USSR and was due solely to the fact that 9K114 was the newest SPTRK to be armed (especially in comparison with SPTRK 9K111-1 which has been in service since 1974) with a new 9M120 type missile (mass production of which was carried out on the territory of the Russian Federation). "Sturm-S" was produced in large quantities and against the background of reductions in NE, and especially the transition to the brigade level, there was an excess of it (several hundred BM). Therefore, they replaced the "Contests".
                  Quote: Spade
                  And you also need to replace the latter.

                  That's just no one is going to change "Storm-S" to "Chrysanthemum-S." In any case, as they say in the KBM itself. And in general, to replace the "Competition" was supposed to be exactly "Cornet-T" with BM 9P162. I doubt that they will now accept 9P162 in the form in which it was originally created. Nevertheless, the RF Ministry of Defense from the "Cornet", as the most unified family of anti-tank weapons of the brigade / division level, has still not officially refused.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Upgrading does not make much sense.

                  Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not agree with you. In any case, it was she who ordered KBM SPTRK 9K132. The GI complex completed http://kbm.ru/pressroom/206.html. During the overhaul of BM 9P149, they plan to simultaneously upgrade them with the designation 9P149M.
  3. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 21 October 2013 08: 49 New
    +9
    Wonderful photos. These are the complexes we sell to Libya. The presence of such in our RF Armed Forces is questionable. But we have the good old "Assaults" and 100-mm anti-tank guns "Rapier". The artillerymen themselves call these guns, as our grandfathers in the Great Patriotic War 45-heels - "Farewell to the Motherland." The possibility of 2 or 3 shots is unlikely.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 October 2013 08: 53 New
      0
      Quote: VohaAhov
      The possibility of 2 or 3 shots is unlikely.

      Do you think this unit has more chances?
      1. Lyapis
        Lyapis 21 October 2013 09: 25 New
        +5
        I think a self-propelled armored vehicle, armed with modern missiles, has a different chance at all than a towed 100-millimeter gun created in the early 60s.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 October 2013 09: 30 New
        +5
        Compared to MT-12? An order of magnitude more
    2. Lyapis
      Lyapis 21 October 2013 09: 20 New
      +3
      Well, about the good old "Shturm" I will not say anything, in my opinion this machine can cope with its tasks quite well now. But the "Rapier" in our time is really a cannon for suicide bombers. recourse
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 October 2013 09: 38 New
        0
        The "good old" is not doing very well.
    3. Russ69
      Russ69 21 October 2013 15: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: VohaAhov
      The availability of those in our Armed Forces is in question.

      Last year, the first batch was transferred to the South-East Military District. In this, more is expected.
  4. Wedmak
    Wedmak 21 October 2013 09: 40 New
    +2
    And why is this complex in a stripped-down form not put on tanks? 4 rockets in a tower niche, striking power will increase significantly!
  5. rudolff
    rudolff 21 October 2013 10: 42 New
    +6
    ATGM Chrysanthemum-S, BMPT Terminator-1/2, self-propelled guns Vienna, self-propelled guns Sprut-SD, BMP-3M / F, BMD-4M, MBT T-90MS ...

    A sad list of what we really could have in the troops.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 21 October 2013 12: 47 New
      +2
      rudolff
      ATGM Chrysanthemum-S, BMPT Terminator-1/2, self-propelled guns Vienna, self-propelled guns Sprut-SD, BMP-3M / F, BMD-4M, MBT T-90MS ...
      A sad list of what we really could have in the troops



      Well, you can write about it exactly and in another way:
      1. Chrysanthemum-S - a gold double at the price of a much cheaper Cornet, while much heavier than Cornet
      2. Machines for which the military of the whole world did not find a destination (exception - 3 in my opinion were bought by Kazakhs)
      3mm mortar at a price of 120C2
      4. A gun with a more than controversial niche in the army
      5. BMP-3F will not say anything, because I think that for the Marines it’s
      6. BMD-4M - a vehicle with an extremely obscure niche is purchased at the price of a tank (we can recall that Afghanistan airborne and infantry fighting vehicles were based on SV equipment, and BMDs with parachute landing were not used in the database NEVER for 45 years of use. Today and the future are not there is not a single airborne airborne vehicle, an example of a long-range airborne action with BMD parachute landing.
      7. T-90MS - I probably agree.
      While there is no Armata, it is necessary to purchase.
      Well, or make BO and put it on the T-90, T-72, T-80.
      But, knowing our specificity of mentality, the military apparently understands that while UVZ will have other stable sources of profit (except Armata), they will not see a new tank.

      What I wrote for - not everything is clear. For many of the samples listed, the military itself does not have consent
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 October 2013 12: 53 New
        +5
        1. Not a fact. "Cornet" with the capabilities of "Chrysanthemum" will cost, if not more expensive, then at the same level
        3. "Vienna" is exactly what we need for battalion artillery. 2S3 self-propelled gun is outdated. Again, if you refine it to an efficiency level corresponding to "Vienna", then it will cost, if not more, then at the same level for sure.
        1. rudolff
          rudolff 21 October 2013 13: 14 New
          +3
          And for the BMP-3F marines paired with the Octopus instead of the PT-76, the perfect combination.
          Perhaps the most controversial BMD-4M. They wouldn’t be transplanted into the BMP-3M without further ado.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 21 October 2013 13: 36 New
            +2
            rudolff
            And for the BMP-3F marines paired with the Octopus instead of the PT-76, the perfect combination.
            Perhaps the most controversial BMD-4M. They wouldn’t be transplanted into the BMP-3M without further ado.


            And under the first and second statement I subscribe
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 21 October 2013 13: 16 New
          0
          Lopatov

          1. Not a fact. "Cornet" with the capabilities of "Chrysanthemum" will cost, if not more expensive, then at the same level

          It's not about reproducing the capabilities of Chrysanthemum by Cornet - it will certainly require similar solutions and will cost comparable output.
          It’s just that Cornet’s PUs with jeeps and TPVs were created, it should cost clearly cheaper than Chrysanthemums with radars on the BMP-3 chassis. Instead of 1 Chrysanthemum, you can buy more than 1 such Cornet (or maybe more than 2-3). Actually this is about.
          It seems like VET is not only quality, but also sustainable. Yes, and maintain Cornet much easier than Chrysanthemum


          3. "Vienna" is exactly what we need for battalion artillery. 2S3 self-propelled gun is outdated. Again, if you refine it to an efficiency level corresponding to "Vienna", then it will cost, if not more, then at the same level for sure.

          There is no doubt about the effectiveness of Vienna.
          As there is an understanding that 2С3 and another niche becomes obsolete.

          The question is different.

          The cost to put 120mm on an armored personnel carrier (US-Israeli Keshet) is 200 thousand dollars, the fire control system for such a mortar is also about 200 thousand dollars (I don’t provide any links - it will be necessary, you can find supply / service contracts on the network).
          Total - for 13 million rubles (+ the cost of the chassis) 120 mm mortar, which can be removed from the armored personnel carrier, with adequate tasks of the OMS on the basis of a massive armored personnel carrier.

          According to the cost-effectiveness criterion, will Vienna be better than the same MT-LB with 120mm and not the most complex computer with a small set of sensors.

          Wrong would not argue with Vienna for the battalions at BPM-3.
  6. Tektor
    Tektor 21 October 2013 12: 08 New
    +1
    Chrysanthemum with its range of 6 km and Apache with Scorpio rockets.
    The UR Scorpion can be used from various launching devices, for example, from the M-299 / M-310 suspended pylons used to launch the AGM-114 Hellfire UR from helicopters and from the MQ-1 Predator UAV. -299 / M-310 it is possible to suspend three Scorpion missiles on one rail instead of one AGM-114 Hellfire. The launch weight of the Scorpion missile is 15,88 kg, length 0,546 m, diameter 0,1 m, firing range up to 18,5 km. The missile is equipped with a combined guidance system - a semi-active laser homing head (GOS), active (millimeter wavelength range) and thermal imaging (TPV) GOS. This SD was developed in the interests of ground forces and special forces ". NO CHANCE.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 October 2013 12: 27 New
      +9
      We have no desert, at ranges of 18 km you can’t shoot very much.
    2. sivuch
      sivuch 23 October 2013 11: 59 New
      0
      This is what kind of height poor Apache will have to climb to recognize the target at a distance of 18 km? The rocket, judging by the design, is subsonic, it will have to drag along for a long time.
      That is, against hezbollons in a jeep, that’s the most, but against armored vehicles it’s really without a chance.
      By the way, has it already been adopted?
  7. Tektor
    Tektor 21 October 2013 12: 10 New
    +1
    Chrysanthemum with its range of 6 km and Apache with Scorpio rockets.
    The UR Scorpion can be used from various launching devices, for example, from the M-299 / M-310 suspended pylons used to launch the AGM-114 Hellfire UR from helicopters and from the MQ-1 Predator UAV. -299 / M-310 it is possible to suspend three Scorpion missiles on one rail instead of one AGM-114 Hellfire. The launch weight of the Scorpion missile is 15,88 kg, length 0,546 m, diameter 0,1 m, firing range up to 18,5 km. The missile is equipped with a combined guidance system - a semi-active laser homing head (GOS), active (millimeter wavelength range) and thermal imaging (TPV) GOS. This SD was developed in the interests of ground forces and special forces ". NO CHANCE.if there is no carapace nearby.
    1. abc_alex
      abc_alex 21 October 2013 13: 11 New
      10
      Why so modest? You would immediately roll it out against the BMR.

      6 km range is the range of the RADIO HORIZON from the BMP-3 altitude. This is a natural limitation of all ground based systems. Do you propose to abandon all ground systems?

      The machine perfectly complements the motorized rifle unit as a means of combating tanks and infantry, sheltered in capital fortifications. The normal operator launches the rocket of this complex into the embrasure of the bunker.

      The machine may be in shelter. This is not a helicopter or UAV. In addition, unlike them, she has a very narrow sector of radio emission. For passive radio search systems, it is difficult to detect.
  8. svp67
    svp67 21 October 2013 12: 23 New
    +7
    "Chrysanthemum" is that flower that would "lay" on the grave of more than one NATO tanker ...
  9. cdrt
    cdrt 21 October 2013 12: 33 New
    0
    The complex is without a doubt a cool one.
    However, how to say ... IMHO contradicts Occam's razor or something.
    In range and penetration it occupies the same niche as the cheaper, lighter Cornet, Cornet-D.
    I know about supersonic.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 October 2013 12: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: cdrt
      I know about supersonic.

      And this is very important. More detection-guidance-defeat cycles at the same time. A battery of 9 cars must independently hold a 2 km wide line.

      In addition, the "Chrysanthemum" has two types of missile control - by the laser beam and the radio command, which makes the complex more resistant to interference
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 21 October 2013 13: 02 New
        -1
        Lopatov
        And this is very important. More detection-guidance-defeat cycles at the same time. A battery of 9 cars must independently hold a 2 km wide line.

        In addition, the "Chrysanthemum" has two types of missile control - by the laser beam and the radio command, which makes the complex more resistant to interference


        Everything is so, only it seems to me that for the cost of the 1st Chrysanthemum battery you can purchase and operate 2-3 Cornet batteries on the same Tiger chassis (or used BMP-2). The stability of such a PT defense will probably be higher (more stupidly more targets), there will also be more cycles (stupidly more than two-channel launchers), and the Cornet-D range is more.

        I would fully support your TZ if the Chrysanthemum had a seeker (millimeter or IR), because then really 1 car could in a minimum time shoot all the ammunition and hide from the eyes of the attackers.

        About resistance to interference - Cornet's beam riding (and Chrysanthemums in the laser-guided version) is hardly less stable in reality to interference.
        In the same MMDV waves have a serious attenuation into fog for example.

        In other words - is the game worth the candle?

        In the mid-80s, the answer would be YES.
        Now (with the availability of good TPV, new missiles for Cornet), it’s not at all a fact.
        Therefore, apparently, there are no mass purchases, because the purchasers doubt.
        Yes, and TPV that Ukrainian apparently causes political issues.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 October 2013 13: 12 New
          +2
          Put the "Cornet" on an adequate chassis with an automatic ammunition rack, install a radar and a thermal imager, control equipment from the ASC, look at what it turned out to be ... Bah, it comes out more expensive with less efficiency ...

          "Cornet" on the "Tiger" chassis will not work for anti-tank batteries. On the BMP-2 chassis after overhaul, the life cycle cost will be higher.

          Quote: cdrt
          I would fully support your TZ if the Chrysanthemum had a seeker (millimeter or IR), because then really 1 car could in a minimum time shoot all the ammunition and hide from the eyes of the attackers.

          This is an ATGM installation, it does not have the task of "shoot and hide", as part of a platoon-battery, it holds the deployment line to give the infantry time and opportunity to turn around behind it.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 21 October 2013 13: 22 New
            0
            Put the "Cornet" on an adequate chassis with an automatic ammunition rack, install a radar and a thermal imager, control equipment from the ASC, look at what it turned out to be ... Bah, it comes out more expensive with less efficiency ...


            I didn’t write about this, but about the simpler ATGMs on jeeps or BRDMs, and the effectiveness of their use in the wars of 1967, 1973 — about the concept of cheaper, but more massive mobile ATGMs.

            "Cornet" on the "Tiger" chassis will not work for anti-tank batteries. On the BMP-2 chassis after overhaul, the life cycle cost will be higher.

            Because I don’t know the cost of the purchase and operation of Chrysanthemum, Cornet on the BMP-2 chassis I will not argue.
            Do you have these numbers?
        2. abc_alex
          abc_alex 21 October 2013 13: 17 New
          +1
          And what will you do with the Tigers when they run into the river? Wave them with a pen and go like in 1941 with grenades to tanks?
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 21 October 2013 13: 26 New
            -1
            And what will you do with the Tigers when they run into the river? Wave them with a pen and go like in 1941 with grenades to tanks?

            Are you not going to force the Dnieper?
            Considering what dear Lopatov wrote above (which, as I understand it, an artilleryman related to the topic) about the use of heavy SPTRK - how do you see this situation?
            Crossing the Dnieper (what high banks are there near rivers in our country) and in the first echelons of Chrysanthemum?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 21 October 2013 13: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: cdrt
              Are you not going to force the Dnieper?

              Not the Dnieper, worse. The chief draws you the planned lines of deployment, and they are not located where the "Tigers" will pass, but in the tank-hazardous directions. And only time matters - no more than 20 minutes, as far as I remember. While the "Tigers" will occupy these 2 km along the front, the "Chrysanthemums" will not only have time to do this several times, but will also have time to dig up for themselves both the main and several spare OPs, so much so that only the sighting devices will stick out over the parapet.
              1. krpmlws
                krpmlws 21 October 2013 18: 26 New
                0
                The Chrysanthemum and the Competition complement each other well and are by no means competitors. The Chrysanthemum, as I read, is a strategic command reserve.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 21 October 2013 18: 33 New
                  +1
                  "Chrysanthemum" is a pure replacement for the rather poor "Sturm" - a car with many flaws
  10. LSV
    LSV 21 October 2013 12: 52 New
    0
    The amateur's question - why only two missiles? Why not hang them with a dozen, or at least five?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 October 2013 12: 57 New
      +3
      Because at the same time the machine can only control two missiles. And it takes seconds to take two more containers from the drums.
      1. MAG
        MAG 21 October 2013 16: 16 New
        0
        My question is, is it possible to shoot from behind cover or a hill? from external sights or using a retractable sight on a machine?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 October 2013 16: 18 New
          0
          No. Here I see, shoot cleanly. Second generation complex
    2. abc_alex
      abc_alex 21 October 2013 13: 13 New
      +3
      :) You did not understand. In contrast to the "chandelier - the joy of the sniper" BMPT ammunition stowage Chrysanthemum INTERNAL. 15 missiles. 2 outside is only ready. Shooting - reloading.
  11. Pattor
    Pattor 21 October 2013 16: 12 New
    +3
    Publications on the topic of Chrysanthemums are already tired of the order. And the photos presented are a variant of the EXPORT machine (specifically the Libyan order). Our army is easier (without a thermal imager, air conditioning). 12 cars are in Ingushetia. The rest released on the basis of storage in the city of Bryansk. And to the question of why the army is not, but there are no trained specialists and test machines. The first KPM will be released this year only. In winter, a new modification of the export is expected, already done for Baku. As we collect, mb will be able to upload a photo.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 October 2013 16: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Pattor
      without thermal imager

      Why are they so mean to them ???
      1. Pattor
        Pattor 22 October 2013 17: 31 New
        0
        The question is the final price. Although initially Chrysanthemum was conceived for our army with all the "bells and whistles". And the current car for our army is unfortunately simplified.
  12. uzer 13
    uzer 13 21 October 2013 20: 11 New
    0
    The Invincible joint venture bears such a name in vain. The Chrysanthemum complex was created and hardly anyone would refuse to have it in service. And the availability and proper application is a completely different matter.
  13. samoletil18
    samoletil18 22 October 2013 19: 28 New
    +1
    Classroom designers in the USSR are called Sergey Pavlovich. Korolev and Invincible.
  14. Witold
    Witold 24 October 2013 19: 56 New
    0
    At 35 seconds, a frame from an American movie. Shooting PTR TAU