"Armored cars" in the trend

26
The interest caused by the priority of Russian engineering in the field of tank construction is quite understandable: you always want to be ahead of the rest. There is nothing wrong with this desire, of course. To be proud of the achievements of your country, both in the past and in the present, is normal. The main thing - do not overdo it!

That's all the debate around "tank Mendeleev ”from the same opera, and the reasons for all kinds of disagreements are that many are very superficially familiar with this design. But if you think about it, it will become obvious that everything in this car was redundant. And weight, and armor, and weapons! “The author even provided for the transfer of the tank by rail!” - Someone admires the prudence of the designer, but if, again, to think with his head, it will become clear that he really did not provide for anything.



And how to put it on the tracks again from railway skating rinks? In the case of the German “Tiger”, only for the sake of driving on the cargo platform and moving out of it, providing for “transport” tracks, and the outer row of wheels before that was removed. And then the tank was driving, moving down, “changing shoes” (each caterpillar on 2,5 tons!) And going into battle. I couldn’t fit onto the pontoon, change shoes again, and so on ... And how would all the same be done on an 180-ton car? Who would his 120-mm gun shoot on the battlefield? And how would this monster force German anti-tank ditches? After all, it is known that the French “Saint-Chamons” very often simply stopped in front of wide German moats, because they couldn’t get over them because of their “noses”. And the "Mendeleev tank" had no nose at all. The British put huge fascines on their tanks and dumped them into these moats. But here the fascine is nowhere to be “stuck”. So yes, there is priority: priority on a fantastic and completely unworkable and unrealizable project!

However, I think to please all those who are more pleased with the mistakes of Western engineers, that even there everything was basically the same. That is, as in any society, people (and engineers too) were divided into smart, mediocre and stupid. And the projects of the tanks came from all three of these categories.

For example, in March, 1915, engineer P.Frot, who worked at the Northern Canal Company, proposed building a symmetrical wheeled “battle car” - a “push-pull” 10 tone with two control posts, so that she could drive along the battlefield ahead back without turning. Engine power of all 20 HP He placed in the center of the case. The crew of 9 people, included four shooters from machine guns and three assistants. The speed of the machine, according to his calculations, should have been 3-5km / h, but even the model was not built, as it was obvious to everyone: it simply would not go to the ground dug up with shells.


Fighting machine P. Froot


Another car, very similar in design to this "car" and the "Mendeleev tank," was proposed by Canadian engineer Stephen Kupchak. He placed the armored anti-bullet armor box-shaped case on the chassis of the Holt tractor, and placed one 75-mm gun in the front. Isn't that the same "Mendeleev tank", and much more realistic conceived!


Stephen Kupchak Tank


But he handed over his project to the British War Department at the end of 1918 of the year, so he was told that, say, build a full-size car for demonstration, and at his own expense, and then we will look at it! It is clear that for the designer it turned out to be an impossible task and he did not offer such projects anymore. The four-track (and very heavy tank weighing about 100 t) was also embodied in the metal under the name “Flying Elephant”, also very similar to the “car on caterpillars”. He, too, would have to have a counter-booking, but the British were scared off by the heavy weight, transportation problems and ... weak weapons - just one 57-mm cannon and 4-6 Lewis machine guns. As a result, only the model in the tank museum in Bovington remained from him. A "Mendeleev tank" was supposed to weigh about 170 t ...


The latest version of the tank "Flying Elephant"


Interestingly, the Americans, along with the fact that the British and French tanks used in Europe, also tried to create something of their own, but they did not succeed in doing anything worthwhile! In 1917, they started with the fact that they also made their own “car on the tracks” - put an armored box on the chassis of the Holt tractor

"Holt gasoline-electric" had a drive used on the French tank "Saint-Chamon". First gasoline engine cooling water power 90 hp rotated the generator, which fed the current two electric motors, each working on its own track. It was convenient to control them: it was enough to change the voltage applied to the electric motor, as it began to rotate faster or slower and, accordingly, the same thing happened with the tracks. It was possible to enter the tank through a large door (one of the advantages of the carriage layout). But he was not accepted for service because it seemed to the military that he had little speed and that it would be bad to overcome the ditches and craters from the shells on the battlefield. Armament 75 mm howitzer mountain two machine guns also did not impress them.


Tank "Holt gasoline-electric"


That is, we can say that the tank cars were “in trend,” that this idea was “in the air”, and engineers from different countries, by virtue of their mental potential and creativity, tried to realize this trend in the metal. At the same time, the feature of this trend was megalomania, and the Americans also had it. For example, it was in the United States that a machine project was created under the name “Trench Destroyer” weighing 200 tons, i.e. it would be even heavier than the German super-heavy tank "Colossal"!


"Trench Destroyer"


In terms of its design, it was again an “armored car” on the undercarriage of the same Holt tractor, but appropriately elongated. The weapon of the “destroyer” was to consist of 6 (!) 75-mm French guns arr. 1897 of the year, flamethrower and another 20 machine gun "Browning" with a roundabout. The crew of the "monster" was planned in 30 people, i.e. again, more than the Colossal tank with its 22-27 crew, and 4 77-mm guns. However, if the Germans did build at least one such machine, and for the other, they prepared almost a complete set of parts, although without engines, then the Americans did not build the “destroyer”, thereby saving themselves from having to disassemble it later. There was also developed a project called "150-ton field monitor". The tank was steam, on four huge wheels with a diameter of 6 meters! The front wheels were steering, the two rear could not turn.


150 ton monitor


The armament of the “monitor” consisted of two 152-mm naval guns, which were usually armed with cruisers and 10 batteries of Colt machineguns of the 1895 model of the year, of which four were located in two towers, and the other six were to shoot through the loopholes in the hull.

The crew of the car had to consist of a 20 man, i.e. was even more than the famous German tank A7V. At the same time, the thickness of his armor was relatively small - only 6-18 mm, so she could not withstand hitting the shells of the German 77-mm field gun, and therefore there was no point in it! The weight was too big - 150 tons. Therefore, it is not surprising that this development has not left the drawing board.

By the way, in April, the 1917 of the year was already our compatriot mechanical engineer S. Navrotsky proposed another tank weighing 192 tons. The dimensions were assumed to be corresponding, but the armament was especially impressive: two 203-mm howitzers, two 152-mm guns, four 102-mm and eight 7,62-mm machine guns. The armor of the car was supposed to be 20-30 mm, the crew was 60 people. And so, what do you think, what did our military think about when they received this “project”?


Tank-tricycle Navrotsky


At the end of 1916, Second Lieutenant Drizhenko, who worked at the Admiralty Plant in Petrograd, offered “a self-propelled armored turret for an 8-inch howitzer” as another analogue of the “Mendeleev tank”. It was the same armored car on a tracked chassis and with weapons in the front. Two petrol engines for 180 HP each worked for each of its tracks. On the roof were two machine-gun turrets. Since the length of the supporting surface of the undercarriage was large (6 m), she had to make the two extreme wheeled carts of the caterpillars rising, which, according to the author, would improve the turning ability of his car. Inside was provided with electric lighting and ventilation. The estimated weight of the "tower" was 46 tons. Armor - 10 mm. The crew is six people, and the speed of planning is at the level of 10-15 km / h.

The project got into the Main Artillery Directorate, where its “tower” was compared with the allied tanks. As a result, the author was told that her armament for the tank is clearly redundant, and for heavy artillery, tractor thrust is also sufficient.

A whole series of completely delusional projects came in those years from Ukraine as well, so that the “fun-figures from the mind” did not appear there yesterday. So, in April, 1916-th resident of Lugansk, S. I. Shevchenko wrote to the State Agrarian University, that he “invented a method by which he could withstand enemy strikes with the greatest success. It is necessary to weave a reservation from the choice of twine. ” To do this, he offered to weave a fabric of twisted rope with a diameter of about one inch, and then “thicken so strongly that a fossil would turn out. The thickness of this armor must be at least 28 inches ... Then you will get a wall-fortress, and you can put it anywhere. ” The basis for it was to serve steel with a thickness of at least 4 inches, so that his fellow countrymen can be proud: after all, he essentially offered nothing more than "combined armor." That's just the weight of the "armor" and the thickness, he clearly did not think through. The technical committee responded to the unfortunate inventor that the military department does not meet the need for its invention.

16 May 1915, the GVTU also received the “Project for a car before breaking trenches and military forts”. Its author, a resident of Lviv, I.F. Semchishin, decided not to waste time on trifles, but wrote directly to Nicholas II, and in his dialect of the Russian language: “Whenever we had some large, armored, inside a reversible barrel or roller, which would turn in the marked namas straightforward, - we could ride them over the enemies. This is what my project understands before destroying fortified areas and constituting a mobile fortress, which I will call the machine “Oboy” here. It was about an armored ellipsoid of cyclopean sizes (approximately 605 m high and 960 m wide - where, science fiction writers with novels about the distant future, where people live in such tanks here and face them head-on!), With cruising speed 300 versts per hour. The Technical Committee expectedly considered the Semchishin project unfeasible, and “Oboy” remained on paper as the project of the largest in stories armored car.

It is interesting that in the trend of the new Ukrainian history I personally see a monument to this outstanding “inventor”, on which he, cast in bronze, and with his egg-shaped “both”, stretches it to people!

"Armored cars" in the trend
"The machine for the destruction of the fortresses" Oboy "I.F. Semchishina "


The appeals to the GVTU were replete with ideas for the improvement of armored vehicles, the benefit of which the Niva magazine and newspapers constantly reported about their “youthful forays against the enemy.” For example, 11 August 1915 received a letter from the not very competent farmer of Minusinsk district of the Yenisei province RI Shovkoplyas: “I realized that you can arrange a machine like the shuttle of an old type sewing machine ... attach to the back of the bullet to do the wheels under it provide shells and let the action ". The presentation of his plan Shovkoplyas added a picture of the “Pullekhod”, to which he managed to put the blot, but from which it is simply impossible to clarify the structure of the intended machine. Well, it is clear that it would not have been possible for her to let her into the "u action"!

2 November 1915, a sketch of an armored car, sent to Russia from the belligerent on the side of the enemy Bulgaria, signed “Grateful Elders”, who offered BA to 36 infantry personnel with two machine guns and two mountain-type guns. In fact, the Bulgarians offered a huge BTR, which even after 100 years did not learn to build!

A year later, another project came from Ukraine (although it wasn’t Ukraine at the time) from P. Marchenko from Odessa, who offered an armored cruiser similar to a tram car, which “has no backside either”! The peculiarity of the design was the independence of its departments from each other, up to the possibility of assembling one “healthy” one capable of fighting at the front of two damaged vehicles. The armament of the cruiser-car should have been made up of six naval 75-mm cannons (!), Four machine guns and two anti-aircraft guns located in the rotary turret - the American "trench destroyer" is resting, isn't it?

For more than two years, from January 1915 to March 1917, the Ingal engineer was offered to the Engineering Committee for consideration for even more formidable fighting machine, and he obviously didn’t hold on to persistence, but this knowledge was not enough. Ingal's armored vehicle had about five arshins in height, 12 feet in width and 15 arshins in length, and had 8-9 mm armor and was two-storeyed. On the top floor there was weapons (12 guns, machine guns or something else), and below the engine and transmission - a kind of "tudor carriage" at the new stage of the historical development of military technical thought. The crew size was calculated in 30 people, and weight in 50 tons. To break through the enemy's field positions, as on the Preto machine, rotating knives were provided for cutting the wire and a chain saw horizontally positioned in front destroying the stakes of the wire obstacles. There is a clear resemblance to James Cowan 1855 steam engine of the year, isn't it? The chassis of the car Ingal consisted of five pairs of wheels, while only two front axles were planned to be connected with the steering. The officers of the Engineering Committee rightly pointed out a number of weaknesses in the project: the huge mass and large dimensions would not allow this machine to cross any existing bridge. On soft ground, its permeability would be extremely limited. A poor visibility for the driver and a high silhouette of the car - all this together would make it easy prey for the enemy artillery.

Other inventors saw the key to success in increasing the patency of their combat vehicles. Here, the most original project can be considered the proposal of the subject of the British Empire G. Layellya. At the end of March 1916, he addressed the Russian ambassador in London to Count A. Benckendorff “A description of the improved combined motor carriage: car-sled-boat-hydroplane” - well, just something like the Jules-Vernovsky “Lord of the World” machine. Lyell offered to put on his car a few propellers and runners, which could, if necessary, be replaced by floats. According to the author, his brainchild could move on any surface without losing speed. Minimal armament (machine gun) was compensated by mobility and freedom of maneuver even on rough terrain. The inventor admitted that his project was submitted to English military engineers back in 1914, and rejected by them. But he didn’t inspire Russian specialists either.

Another persistent search designer A.I. Kudryavtsev, whose proposal bypassed many instances, including the office of the Moscow governor and the Police Department, in 1916, offered an armored, cigar-shaped vehicle so that the bullets ricocheted from it. Armament: machine guns on the bow and stern, as well as anti-aircraft gun in a dome-shaped tower in the center of the hull. But the most paradoxical of the projects of armored vehicles should recognize the “ball-scooter” from Kiev G. Opanasenko. An anonymous report about him, signed by “Russian Man”, was received in the autumn of 1917 of the year to the headquarters of the 1 Army. The note said: “This scooter can, under any fire, go quietly to the goal. This is a high-speed, heavy land-based armadillo, it can serve as a destroyer of obstacles, in a small form a self-moving core, etc., etc. The speed of the 700 scooter at [hour] is stable and very convenient. ” Seven hundred!!! That is 746 km / h! To date, this is the earliest of the projects of armored vehicles of spherical shape, but unfortunately not the last.

Revolutionary upheavals and the beginning of the Civil War stopped the military-technical "revolution from below." 23 February 1918 was eliminated and GVTU, and all these projects remained specimens of the fantasy psyche and technical illiteracy of its creators. But it’s a pity that they didn’t collect them all at one time and didn’t publish them to the beginner military inventors so that they would not repeat the mistakes of their odious predecessors! By the way, it's not too late to do it now! In the same Samara, for example, there is a remarkable archive of abandoned inventions. And what is there just not!
26 comments
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  1. +17
    5 March 2015 07: 06
    It was a time of searching, trial and error. The French turned out to be visionaries with their Reno FT17, the layout chosen during its design became a classic as a result.
    1. +2
      5 March 2015 15: 42
      Quote: Arctidian
      It was a time of searching, trial and error. The French turned out to be visionaries with their Reno FT17, the layout chosen during its design became a classic as a result.

      I agree, gigantomania has not brought to good.
      1. jjj
        +1
        5 March 2015 18: 18
        Quote: Arctidian
        The seers were the French with their Reno FT17,

        So in the RSFSR appeared "Fighter for freedom comrade Lenin"
        1. 0
          5 March 2015 21: 47
          Quote: jjj
          So in the RSFSR appeared "Fighter for freedom comrade Lenin"

          I saw him at the entrance of the Krasnoye Sormovo plant. True in the last century. Remained?
        2. 0
          6 March 2015 02: 39
          Quote: jjj
          Quote: Arctidian
          The seers were the French with their Reno FT17,

          So in the RSFSR appeared "Fighter for freedom comrade Lenin"

          But then again the same FT-17
  2. +6
    5 March 2015 07: 20
    Smiled at the article - a plus!
  3. +7
    5 March 2015 07: 59
    All Russian projects ... they weren’t interesting ... they had one shortage ... There was no engine ... Two Maybach engines were delivered to the Tsar Tank Lebedenko, from a downed German airship, how many airships were needed knock down, that is, let’s start the tank in series .. Thanks to the author for the article ..
    1. +2
      5 March 2015 17: 38
      It's not just about engines. How was the transmission from motor to wheel designed on the Tsar Tank? Two wheels are PRESSED to the rim of the 9 meter wheel and it was turned. Is that a drive? And get wet, and the dirt will stick? It will slip! Well, at least they put the worm gear ...
      1. 0
        5 March 2015 21: 52
        I'm not talking about that ...
  4. +8
    5 March 2015 08: 21
    a number of completely crazy projects came in those years and from Ukraine

    Well then Lugansk was not a part of any Ukraine! And Ukraine as such was not.
    And the ideas, many of them had one more crazy than the other, and not only during the First World War:
    1. +3
      5 March 2015 10: 09
      Yes, this is the famous KARAR - a project (such a picture!) Sent to Comrade. To Stalin. Motor in 20 hp it seems. And moves in leaps!
  5. 0
    5 March 2015 08: 46
    It is even strange that the author did not remember about the German "Rat" ...
    1. +4
      5 March 2015 16: 27
      Quote: tchoni
      It is even strange that the author did not remember about the German "Rat" ...

      The author listed only those projects that really, at least in some form, but "existed" at one time, and the "rat", like the "monster" ... like the T-135 ... like the Kv-5bis " hippopotamus "(aka" Stalin's orchestra ") - there are inventions of modern forum trolls (from the corresponding forums and sometimes very subtly trolls, because many of them were specialists) and" photoshoppers ", designed for subtle and not very trolling of all kinds of amateurs who draw knowledge not from historical documents, but from posts on forums wink
  6. +6
    5 March 2015 08: 52
    Article plus! There was an update time, cars, airplanes, motors ... Speed ​​time
    and change! The heyday of engineering! Search time! Hence a large number
    projects, both feasible and not! People see progress, they want to become accomplices!
    But education, especially engineering, not many! Hence a huge amount
    miraculous and impossible projects! Then concepts, directions have not yet been decided
    development, application features ... Yes, the same qualified engineers were on
    crossroads! What can we say about ordinary people. They generally thought that the engine
    twenty horses, tremendous power! They are not familiar with the Watt formula, so they thought
    that will trample the car "as twenty horses are driven"!
    In short, "I know for sure, the impossible is possible!" (C)
  7. +6
    5 March 2015 13: 33
    The "tanks-cars" lived their own lives. But then the FT-17 came and broke their quiet life.
  8. +2
    5 March 2015 16: 34
    The article is definitely a plus - the flight of engineering thought of some "interesting personalities" is well outlined. Although it is worth noting that Mendeleev himself positioned his "brainchild" not as a tank (that is, a vehicle for breaking through enemy defenses), but as a "mobile coastal artillery" (hence the "huge" caliber and "thick" armor), which of course does not negate "chimerism" of this project, and not only because of the impossibility of such a structure to move, but also because of the obvious insufficiency of its characteristics (protection and firepower) for the performed range of tasks of coastal artillery. So Mendeleev "missed twice," alas.
  9. +1
    5 March 2015 16: 49
    For the excursion into the archives of the inventors - thanks, very informative. But!
    You, Shpakovsky, continue to suffer from narcissism. Treat people indulgently, because you look at everything with modern knowledge in tank building, and you are smart, plague ... What could you offer? In any field?
    "Do not love yourself in people, love people in yourself"
    1. +2
      5 March 2015 17: 31
      I don’t understand you, dear, but where is narcissism? And what I could offer in the age of the Internet, you can not tell ... you type your name, Google and everything at a glance, right? There are all my books, published both in the USSR, in the Russian Federation, and in England, electronic textbooks for students and much more. Narcissism would be in that case if I said: write at least 50%, then I will listen to you. But I don’t say that; I even listen to sweeping accusations. And that in the world there are many fools in all spheres (everyday, not scientific definition), so here was my article (for a long time) about the "Pareto law". I didn't invent it, but it works. And 80% of people use it ... not really! You teach me condescension, and you yourself are condescending? Not at all! There's a log and a straw in the Bible, isn't it? I share my knowledge, and what about you?
      1. +1
        5 March 2015 19: 45
        You are an interesting person! Well, you give the information in a purely key way: then, there, and so and so this was proposed. ALL! Without any hint of "Pareto's law" and "80% of people ... not really." And no complaints against you !!! And so it turns out narcissism - I'm so awkward, but they are stupid people. It's easy to talk about the creation of tanks in a hundred years. By the way, Mendeleev was no stupider than you ...
        1. 0
          6 March 2015 08: 38
          Then it will not be interesting! Opinions are the most interesting thing, for which the reader votes with the ruble. You are right, he is wrong, but - always right - this is what a person thinks about when he reads not a stingy listing of figures and facts, but also the author's attitude towards them. Many people criticize the book "Tanks are unique and paradoxical", and in our time, when people do not read and do not buy books, it went through three editions. What is this talking about? Or my novel - "Let's Die Near Moscow" - already two editions and all sold out. So, excuse me, but I do as I see fit. And again - please note, I do not require people to know what they are now 100 years ago, but ... they would be smart FOR YOUR TIME. You don't need to cut through the cracks in the frontal armor of the Renault FT-17. You won't see anything without them! But it was quite possible to strain the mind a little and put the already available infantry periscopes on the tank. Not delivered! And I point this out. And there may be several reasons: lack of intelligence (why not?), Haste (very possible!), Cheapness (and so it will do!), Finally, a disregard for people and all this taken together. As a result, many tankers were wounded in the eyes. And where is the narcissism and outrageous demands from the heights of the modern to the people of the century? In my opinion, everything is logical. And the dissatisfied ... it's always 20%. But what do the Arabs say? The dogs bark and the caravan moves on! Nothing personal, just oriental folklore. By the way, I remembered one thing: in 1987 I wrote a book for children, "Out of everything at hand" and the publishing house also asked me a question similar to yours - "Who are you to write like that?" Apparently, too, you felt the "awkwardness", right? As a result, this book was published elsewhere with a circulation of 80 thousand copies. and it sold out in two weeks. The conclusion is obvious!
          1. 0
            6 March 2015 16: 46
            I took your advice - I downloaded a couple of your books - I read an alternative story at my leisure. Let's see what happened.
            About the periscope on the Renoch - didn't you think that such an observation device could be easily broken? And what should the mechanic do then? Open the manhole cover and continue towards the enemy? And then be killed / wounded? It's harder to hit the peephole than the periscope, don't you agree? There can be many opinions here ...
            Regarding the author's own opinion, this is an attempt to impose YOUR opinion on the reader that "is not good" - you are not a yellow press JOURNALIST, you are a HISTORIAN. Your vocation is to convey truthful information to people, no more.
            On the commercial side of the issue - not to me, I'm an engineer, not a sales manager.
            1. 0
              6 March 2015 20: 57
              You are wrong, no one got into the periscope and even into the viewing slot. Statistics speaks about it, not me. It is only the Ukrainians who write how grandfather Taras got from a sniper rifle into the viewing slot of the T-80 and through the triplex into the forehead of the tanker. The periscopes are provided with replaceable units, on the same 2C they were already installed. The problem was that the bullets smashed against the armor next to the slots and spray of lead flew into them. So there is no need to invent mythically hitting periscopes (if only to get me away!), But to read the relevant literature, so there cannot be many opinions. Either they didn't think, or they decided to save money, which is tantamount to "not thinking". As a result, the tankers had to wear masks with glasses exclusively against splashes. Believe me, I have been publishing "Tankomaster" since 91, during this time I communicated with the workers of Bovington, Samur, Munster, the museum in Jakarta, and went to Kubinka as if to work. And why don't I then impose my opinion on the reader?
              1. 0
                7 March 2015 15: 20
                And yet - you are a historian, not a journalist-writer. That's when you write a book on a free theme (fantasy, drama, love story, etc.) then your thoughts and aspirations you simply must convey to the reader. When working on fiction in a historical manner, you also have the right through your heroes to convey your opinion about what is happening, without distorting historical facts. But when compiling a historical report on engineering ideas, you should not impose your thoughts on the reader - here everyone has the right to decide for himself what is smart and what is nonsense.
                As for direct hits in the viewing gaps, and even more so in the eyepieces of the periscope - I dare to assure you - the sniper and machine gunners do this elementarily at a fairly decent distance (he himself was a machine gunner and a sniper in the army in terms of combined arms combat). Remember the instructions of the Second World War - hit the observation instruments of enemy tanks.
                In World War I, tankers also wore chain mail on their faces besides glasses - yes, to protect eyes and face from lead spray - this is a historical fact.
                Maybe I'm the only one so finicky to your articles, but a technical education obliges me to accept only dry facts, without imposing anyone’s opinion. In fiction, this is simply a must.
                1. 0
                  7 March 2015 15: 51
                  I also read - "Hit the observation devices!" But in reality, the percentage of hitting them was not at all as great as it seems. In the books of the Armored Directorate of the Red Army, it was described in detail about this, and how to design them, and how to replace glass blocks, and even how to protect your face from glass fragments if they are already broken. There's a whole device there. But at the time of Renault's appearance, 2 periscopes around the driver's booth would have been enough. We made strobes on XNUMXC. There is a fine line separating stupidity from other properties of human nature and any other transcending circumstances. And it is precisely in fiction that the opinion "head-on" is perceived negatively. The reader has to "reach" himself! Then this is a good book.
  10. 0
    5 March 2015 18: 49
    trial and error time. article plus!
  11. 0
    6 March 2015 21: 14
    Here is an interesting article about an armored car of a barrier breakthrough that was actually used in the Russian army during the First World War http://history-news.org/?p=18329#more-18329