Ukrainian army: the last century and the present

71


After the collapse of the USSR, the Army of Ukraine was really powerful, but now only miserable crumbs of the same power remained. How did this happen and what can we expect in the future?

An excursion into the past

When leaving the Soviet Union and declaring independence, Ukraine took under its jurisdiction the armed forces and the corresponding infrastructure of the three districts located on its territory - Kiev, Odessa and Prikarpatsky. As a result, the Ukrainian army was one of the most powerful in Europe, possessing nuclear weapons and fairly modern types of other weapons and military equipment.

The number of military personnel at that time was equal to 700 thousand people. Among the military units that were part of the post-Soviet army of Ukraine, one can count 14 motorized rifle divisions, 9 air defense brigades, 8 artillery brigades, 4 tank and 3 artillery divisions, one special forces brigade. The air force of Ukraine consisted of 3 air armies (over a thousand combat aircraft), 7 regiments of combat helicopters and a separate air defense army. In terms of the nuclear weapons situation, Ukraine had 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles and approximately 2600 tactical nuclear weapons.

Today

At the beginning of 2010, the number of personnel of the army in Ukraine is only 196 thousand people. Mass dismissals from military service are primarily due to insufficient funding. Many officers have promised housing from the state since the last century. In total, the housing queue costs about 48 thousands of officer families, and 13 thousands of them are already more than 10 years old. As for wages, a private contractor receives 870 hryvnia, a junior sergeant with a length of 3 of the year - 1100 hryvnia, which is two times less than the average salary in the country, and a lieutenant colonel - a battalion commander with a length of service of 18 years gets 2500 hryvnia, that is, much less than the average official. But for a small salary, the soldier must still support his family and pay rent. It is not surprising that only in 2009 a year 2,5 thousands of officers, including 2000 contract soldiers, left the ranks of the Ukrainian army. And this trend does not stop.

The army is not only the defense system of the state, it protects its traditions, educates young people, as does the school. And this institution of upbringing is falling apart before our eyes, devoting one's life to military service no longer seems honorable. However, many young people are trying to get into the army by hook or by crook. Sometimes even bribes are given so that the recruiting office will close their eyes to minor health problems. But this is not due to the prestige of military service, but to the fact that the unemployment rate, especially in the periphery, is very high. Young people go to the army, hoping then to get to work at the police or guard.

Scanty cash flows to the needs of the army led to the fact that in 2008, out of 112 fighters, only 31, 10 out of 24 bombers, only half of 12 reconnaissance aircraft and 8 of 39 attack aircraft were in operational condition. That is, only 30% aviation. The situation has not changed in 2009.

Armored vehicles and artillery systems are ready for a combat situation only on 60%. The development of the missile complex has stopped. There are no funds for the modernization of aircraft and tanks. With the Navy, the situation is even worse. Only 30% ships left in the ranks. Repair them nowhere. The shipbuilding industry is practically destroyed.

In the budget of Ukraine, defense expenditures are laid out in 6 thousand dollars per soldier. In Russia, this indicator is 8 times higher, and in France, 23 times higher.

The military needs of clothing assets are covered by 20%, food products by 60-70%, fuel and lubricant costs are 10-12% of the necessary, and only 2% funds are allocated for digital communications. New technology is almost no waiting. In 2009, not a single unit of equipment was purchased. Upgraded the entire 2 units - infantry fighting vehicle BMP-1U and one tank T-64B.

With combat training, the situation is very bad. In 2008, the best of the pilots flew only 50 watches. The average 2009 in the year was 4 hours. For comparison, in the NATO forces, this figure is equal to 120 hours. Shooting takes place once every three years, moreover, that the service life of conscripts is one year, that is, only one out of three can shoot. In Soviet times, shooting was carried out every six months.

Army financing

The fact that the Ukrainian army is on the verge of destruction through the fault of the budget allocated for defense, was announced in 2009 year by the press service of the Ministry of Defense. The Ministry states that financing the needs of the army violates even Ukrainian legislation, according to which 3% of GDP should be allocated to the needs of the army. In 2009, 0,83% was allocated. Yes, and these funds were received unevenly, which led to the inability to pay even power supply and utilities. An incredible thing happened - over 70 military facilities were disconnected from electricity, including the air defense base. Ukraine is not able to fulfill 75% of international agreements, and the construction of housing for the military was stopped. And Yulia Tymoshenko at the same time stated that there were no problems with financing the armed forces, and the amount of funds allocated was already a record.

In fact, for the existence and development of the Ukrainian army in 2010, it took about 32 billion hryvnias, just for the existence - 19,8 billion, and 11,6 billion were allocated. In 2009, 11,7 was allocated billions of hryvnia, of which 4,2 - from a special fund, that is, the military was offered to sell something.

Corruption in the Armed Forces of Ukraine

The level of corruption in the armed forces is very high, despite the low funding, and, accordingly, the low level of salaries, the management feels rather well. And corruption flourishes for three simple reasons. Low wages lead to the fact that, being honest, you will not live well. According to the legislation, army assets are assessed and sold by the Ministry of Defense itself, and their inventory is carried out; accordingly, it is easier to close your eyes to all sorts of violations. But ordinary officers are brought to trial; very rarely can one be seen in the dock of someone from the leadership team.

Doors to the army - military enlistment office. As before, officers of the military commissariat are periodically held accountable for bribes, allowing the conscript to avoid urgent service. Recently, they began to take bribes to get into the army, despite minor deviations in health status, because for most young people the army is the only chance to get a well-paid job in the police and protection.

A real chance to make money on kickbacks gives food to military personnel. If you look at the prices of products from soldiers rations in supermarkets, it is easy to see that its cost is much lower than the declared price, and after all, it buys bulk food for soldiers. Of course, the costs will become prohibitively high if the armed forces themselves are engaged in food, but why not announce a tender, and not enter into agreements with specific private owners willing to pay the rollback.

Good bribes have to be given to servicemen to get housing out of turn or to go to serve as a peacemaker, because their salary is about 2 to thousands of dollars, compared to the Ukrainian in 300 dollars per month. And an apartment can be obtained "only" for 15-20% of its value, just from where does a simple officer get that kind of money ...

Not bad army officials are cashing in on the sale of fuel abroad, in the performance of peacekeeping missions, or the sale of decommissioned gasoline and fuel to truckers. Budget funds are “saved” on unreported equipment repairs, on conducting exercises, on developing automated control systems for the needs of the army. Huge money was paid to designers, computer equipment was bought, which had been in warehouses for many years and was morally obsolete for a long time, only the works are still in embryo, even the project has not been created yet.

For a pittance sold land belonging to the military. Sometimes it “changes” to apartments for military personnel, and the cost of land and apartments on the periphery are incomparable. Or the foundation is sold in the field for 10 thousand hryvnia, and in addition to it, the field itself is worth several millions. Sometimes the land is transferred to the wrong hands by refusal letters. So the armed forces lost their children's camp for children of military personnel and many coastal territories in Sevastopol.

The main person in the looting of military property is called Anatoly Gritsenko, the former Minister of Defense. At that time, as the army was falling apart before our eyes and plundered, he had enough hypocrisy to loudly talk about the need for a strict inventory of the capital's real estate, which is under the jurisdiction of the defense department. But it was he who took care of the transfer to the private hands of military camps in the center of Kiev. Sensing the threat of the dock, he began to no less loudly accuse the authorities of political repression.

Who needs it all?

It is said loudly that there is no external threat to Ukraine, so there is no need to maintain the army inherited from the Soviet Union, so reducing the army is only for the benefit of the budget.

At the same time, a demoralized, weak army has access to the tools of violence. And the ruling class perfectly understands who the army bayonets will turn against in the event of a popular uprising. It is not for nothing that the army is weakened, and the police, on the contrary, are encouraged by wage growth, attention to the training of internal troops is increasing, and the nuts in the media are tightened.

The army has been brought to the stage when the danger is borne not by the armed forces themselves, but by military depots that will open access to weapons for the rebels, which has already happened in stories Ukraine.

There is a situation when on one side of the scale there is a police state and paramilitary structures of FIGs, that is, tens of thousands of excellent fighters. And on the other side there is an angry, but unarmed people, in which discontent and radical moods are growing. It is the army that has reached the extremes that can drastically change the balance of forces towards the people. And it is perfectly understood at the top.
71 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Splin
    +1
    12 September 2011 09: 35
    Old information. In 2010, the situation changed for the better. Not much, but there is a plus. Salaries, of course, although they rose by 25-35%, are still miserable. And the restoration and modernization of technology has already begun. And the programs have begun. Of course, there is not enough money, but they have moved off the ground.
    1. 0
      12 September 2011 10: 14
      Ukrainian Armed Forces
      This site is intended for those who love Ukraine and believe in its future. This site provides extremely positive and optimistic (but objective!) Information about the various types of troops in the Ukrainian armed forces.
      He laughed ...
      http://ukr-army.narod.ru/
      The strategy for the formation of the security and defense forces of Ukraine suggests that by 2015 the army will decrease by another 40 thousand people, and by 2025 it will reach 150 thousand, of which 120 thousand will be military personnel, and the rest will be civilian employees. In parallel, it is planned to halve the number of educational institutions that train officers. The volume of military equipment and armaments is also subject to revision with the aim of reduction.
      In the accompanying documents, special emphasis is placed on the fact that the state is not able to contain too large an army, and therefore is forced to reduce it. One of the officers whom NG was able to talk to noted that the military themselves, based on funding, believe that Ukraine can now afford to maintain an army of no more than 60-80 thousand people. “Officers have an average salary of $ 350-400. Pension reform is expected, which will make adjustments to both pensions and the laws on length of service. To serve is not only prestigious, but also unprofitable - many are leaving, ”he said, noting that today in the Ukrainian army there are already more than 10 thousand vacant officer posts. “You can not pass separate laws - with this attitude of the state, the army will scatter itself”
      More details: http://www.ng.ru/cis/2011-06-02/1_ukraina.html
    2. +1
      13 September 2011 16: 15
      crying GUY, what are you raving about ???

      Quote: Splin
      And restoration and modernization of equipment has already gone

      Where did you go ??? What moon have you fallen from ??? Have you seen what this army is armed with, there is no army — cannon fodder !!! This is a set of bones for the death of a master. Where do you live??? NO IN KHAZARIA2 ARMY !! There are separate guys - Heroes of the time, but there is no such system. One soldier has a hundred generals.
      Sorry, but you might think that something is really here.
      Quote: Splin
      already gone


      Here's to you for thinking: JEWS OF UKRAINE Prime Minister of Ukraine Tymoshenko Yulia Yatsenyuk Arseniy - Minister of Economy of Ukraine at 2005-2006, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine at 2007, ex-Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine from December 4, ex-head of the Secretariat of the President of Ukraine Balog Viktor Viktor Litvin JEWISH MAYORS OF REGIONAL CENTERS OF UKRAINE Kiev Mayor Leonid Chernovetsky (mother is Jewish) Odessa Mayor Eduard Gurvits Donetsk Mayor Alexander Lukyanchenko Kharkov Mayor Mikhail Dobkin former mayor of Kharkiv Evgeni Kushnarev Mayor of Poltava Andrey Matkovsky Kernes Gennady Adolfovich, mayor of Chernivtsi city council, mayor of Chernivtsi Fedoruk Nikolai, mayor of Zhytomyr Vera Sheludchenko, former governor and former mayor of Vinnitsa, Dmitry Dvorkis, mayor of Vinnitsa, Vladimir Groysman, mayor of Kirovograd, Puzakov, Vladimir, mayor of Ivano-Frankivsk, Anushkevichus, mayor of Sum, Minayev, Gennady Rush, mayor Gennady Rush

      Defender of the world: Turchinov Alexander Valentinovich - from 19 December 2007 of the year - First Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine Minister of Foreign Affairs - Ogryzko Vladimir Stanislavovich Minister of the Interior - Lutsenko Yuriy Vitalyevich Minister of Justice - Onishchuk Nikolay Vasilyevich Minister of Agrarian Policy - Melnik Yuriy Fedorovich Minister of Coal Industry - Poltavets Viktor Ivanovich Minister of Economics - Danilishin Bogdan Mikhailovich Minister of Culture and Tourism - Vovkun Vasily Vladimirovich Minister of Education and Science - Ivan Vakarchuk Mi istr of health protection - Knyazevich Vasily Mikhailovich Minister of Fuel and Energy - Prodan Yuri Vasilievich Minister of Labor and Social Policy - Denisova Lyudmila Leontyevna Minister of Industrial Policy - Novitsky Vladimir Stanislavovich Minister of Transport and Communications - Vinsky Joseph V. Cabinet Minister - Krupko PETER Mikhailovich TOTAL GUIDELINES 2007 YEARS OF JEWS HAS BEEN ABOVE 90%
      WELL AND WILL GIVE THE GOVERNMENT OF FOREIGNERS (STRONGLY HATING GAYS) something to generally modernize ...
      1. 0
        13 September 2011 21: 05
        http://www.xvvky.narod.ru/Xvvku.html - Ваш Сайт?
        1. +2
          14 September 2011 19: 38
          Quote: PSih2097
          http://www.xvvky.narod.ru/Xvvku.html - Ваш Сайт?

          When I studied in it, it was part of the HVU (Krylovka and Govorov Academy). And in the photo is the building of the GUK, Eternal Glory to the late University, with love and gratitude to all Ped. Composition.
  2. Captain
    +1
    12 September 2011 16: 44
    the army is weakening, and the police, on the contrary, are encouraged by rising salaries

    I have already seen it somewhere
    1. +1
      12 September 2011 17: 52
      Maybe in Russia?
      1. Silvergraph
        -2
        15 October 2011 13: 54
        Just not in Russia, and the police are not particularly encouraged. And only humiliate her.
  3. 0
    12 September 2011 16: 46
    Yes, the Slav brothers’s affairs are even worse than ours.
    1. Bogatir
      0
      13 September 2011 17: 58
      A controversial question. In many areas, the Russian army is 2-10 years behind.
  4. dimarm74
    +2
    12 September 2011 17: 10
    We have more money, but the same sense .....
    1. +4
      13 September 2011 16: 18
      Yes, we have one government - kartavaoe.
      1. +2
        13 September 2011 21: 06
        True, some paisas are native, others have invoices ....
        1. +3
          14 September 2011 19: 13
          Quote: PSih2097
          True, some paisas are native, others have invoices ....

          and their behavior is the same - like worms.
  5. Sobibor
    +2
    12 September 2011 17: 11
    A few BUT:
    - it’s not true with the firing - that’s what the firing at the ZSU is carried out with enviable regularity, please do not confuse it with 90;
    - The salaries of contractors are now higher than the written numbers by 30-40%;
    - in the 2009 year, it was not the 2 tank that was upgraded, but the 64 - in the 2010 m 10 Strongholds were bought;

    Now about the veracity - indeed, the army’s funding is scanty. The huge gap between the combat readiness of the units - there are well-trained units such as the 95 airmobile brigade where modern weapons and training reach the level, and there is its antipode 79 airmobile where the weapon is still 60-70's ..

    But in general, the article, although it reflects what is happening in the Ukrainian army, is indirectly - the data is simply elementary taken from various news reports and statements by Yushchenko and Tymoshenko +, the latest trends are screwed.
    To the author-fellow countryman - respect
    1. Superduck
      0
      12 September 2011 20: 36
      Quote: Sobibor
      2010 bought 10 Strongholds;

      Bastions are still in the factory according to the information that I have. MO bought only one tank, and they ride on it. Has something changed? One is glad that those now though Thais will pay for them.
      1. Splin
        0
        12 September 2011 21: 39
        those Strongholds for the Ukrainian army. The Thai contract will be attached only in March.
        1. Superduck
          -1
          12 September 2011 23: 35
          As far as I know, they paid only one tank from that party, the remaining 10 were at the factory and were not accepted for service
          1. Bogatir
            -1
            13 September 2011 18: 28
            Not accepted? - Understand first in terms.
          2. Bogatir
            0
            17 September 2011 17: 51
            Nirhena you do not know.
        2. Bogatir
          -1
          13 September 2011 18: 27
          By the beginning of the assembly in March, and in order to have something to collect from, you need to do something from which they will be assembled. Work is already underway.
        3. Bogatir
          0
          17 September 2011 17: 50
          There, it’s a little muddy so far with Oploty for ZSU, but the money allocated for the preparation of production has been disbursed in the case.
          In March, the plant begins assembling, and production is already underway.
      2. Bogatir
        -1
        13 September 2011 18: 26
        Zero information and statements.
      3. Bogatir
        0
        17 September 2011 17: 48
        Stop flooding already - the tanks have long been out of the factory.
    2. asavchenko59
      +3
      13 September 2011 10: 00
      Especially excellent are firing at civilian aircraft!
      1. +1
        13 September 2011 17: 12
        and if they were left with nuclear missiles?
        1. 0
          13 September 2011 21: 09
          Denis,
          and if they were left with nuclear missiles?

          then tell me why they were cutting strategic aviation ???
    3. +3
      13 September 2011 16: 32
      Quote: Sobibor
      A few BUT:
      - it’s not true with the firing - that’s what the firing at the ZSU is carried out with enviable regularity, please do not confuse it with 90;
      - The salaries of contractors are now higher than the written numbers by 30-40%;
      - in the 2009 year, it was not the 2 tank that was upgraded, but the 64 - in the 2010 m 10 Strongholds were bought;

      Now about the veracity - indeed, the army’s funding is scanty. The huge gap between the combat readiness of the units - there are well-trained units such as the 95 airmobile brigade where modern weapons and training reach the level, and there is its antipode 79 airmobile where the weapon is still 60-70's ..

      But in general, the article, although it reflects what is happening in the Ukrainian army, is indirectly - the data is simply elementary taken from various news reports and statements by Yushchenko and Tymoshenko +, the latest trends are screwed.
      To the author-fellow countryman - respect


      OH I can’t! The tummy tore with laughter !! You sho, SERIOUSLY or you have such a joke !!! Yes, I see MANY MIMES completely mowed the TV teaser !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      YOU LOOK IN THE TEXT THAN OWNED !!!! And what happened !!! Where are you poking around with your little bits and pieces, they are not even far from NATO (not even from themselves, from their vassals, Poles, Romanians), you are an optimistic story you read! How did the conquistadors deal with the Indians of America! And how then the USA erased them from the ground. And how Britain sent the Africans to the other world by tribes! And many natives were MUCH stronger than the conquerors. Tokma naked jo * oh on a machine gun to jump to no avail. But the war, in addition to farting from each other with weapons, also timely delivery of everything to the front (from clothes to shells), timely production and development of weapons and other equipment, etc. etc. It’s only for the rezun that everything turns out smoothly ... and for our PRI from the government, which is exterminating its people.
    4. Bogatir
      -3
      13 September 2011 18: 25
      2 tanks - it’s generally crisis 2009 is better not to touch everywhere (not solid for analytics). But there were dozens of Bulatas, ship repairs, aircraft and helicopter upgrades ... The latest tank was adopted, a series of anti-tank systems was developed, a lot of modernization programs, etc. - This is only the last three years.
      Article is bullshit.
    5. +2
      14 September 2011 19: 20
      Quote: Sobibor
      A few BUT:
      - it’s not true with the firing - that’s what the firing at the ZSU is carried out with enviable regularity, please do not confuse it with 90;
      - The salaries of contractors are now higher than the written numbers by 30-40%;
      - in the 2009 year, it was not the 2 tank that was upgraded, but the 64 - in the 2010 m 10 Strongholds were bought;

      Now about the veracity - indeed, the army’s funding is scanty. The huge gap between the combat readiness of the units - there are well-trained units such as the 95 airmobile brigade where modern weapons and training reach the level, and there is its antipode 79 airmobile where the weapon is still 60-70's ..

      But in general, the article, although it reflects what is happening in the Ukrainian army, is indirectly - the data is simply elementary taken from various news reports and statements by Yushchenko and Tymoshenko +, the latest trends are screwed.
      To the author-fellow countryman - respect

      TOKMA I DO NOT SEE the topic of the removal of air defense systems from the database and delivery to Georgia. Shooting is needed - so that there are dvizhuhi in the warehouses (and how to write off the svizhennoe)
      I do not see the Old about the arson of warehouses in Kharkov (and not only) for the same purpose. Excuse me, BUT it is a shame for me for the army team - they smoothed a smoky candy into your mouth to white bones, and you rejoice. Nenad regarded this candy as a positive direction.
  6. +3
    12 September 2011 17: 43
    There is no army in Ukraine! I know, because I live in it.
    1. +3
      12 September 2011 17: 55
      Some say there is an army, others do not. Then let's call it better - in Ukraine there is a contingent of people dressed in uniforms similar to military ones. Will it fit?
      1. +3
        13 September 2011 16: 40
        Namely, Kamrad, and the purpose of them is not to defend their homeland but to kill / die for the interests of the Khazain (well, there the indigenous population, who disagrees with the craps, is killed in Iraq ...).
      2. Bogatir
        -1
        13 September 2011 18: 10
        For desa, yes.
    2. mitrich
      +1
      12 September 2011 20: 34
      And what can be opposed to the opinion of a person who knows and lives in Ukraine? Just agree.
      1. Bogatir
        -3
        13 September 2011 18: 11
        Does this mean something?
    3. +1
      13 September 2011 16: 36
      ..and I also served ...
    4. Bogatir
      -3
      13 September 2011 18: 08
      A series of "Adequate Response" exercises is currently underway. - Don't be unfounded.
      1. +2
        14 September 2011 19: 33
        Quote: Bogatir
        A series of "Adequate Response" exercises is currently underway. - Don't be unfounded.

        Damn, Glory to TV! The brain level keeps dropping and dropping !! But what the "officials say": In the 25th separate Dnepropetrovsk airborne brigade of the 6th Army Corps of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, commanded by Colonel Yuriy Sodol, in preparation for the complex of exercises "Adequate Reaction-2011" shooting platoons. This is reported by the regional media center of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.

        As the senior shooting director, the commander of the paratrooper battalion of the 25 separate airborne brigade, Lieutenant Colonel Ruslan Kozinets, noted that more than 200 military personnel were involved in combat shooting, staffing and military equipment of the units that will be involved in the “Adequate Response-2011” exercises complex Odessa region, at the Belgorod training ground.
        “At first, the combat coordination of the squads took place, subsequently the platoon firing, which will result in company and battalion tactical exercises, which will take place soon,” said Colonel Ruslan Kozinets.
        Following the results of combat platoon firing, the battalion commander determined the best, among which the commander of the parachute assault company captain Alexei Yavkun, the chief sergeant of the battalion, senior sergeant Yevgeny Yatsenko and the grenade launcher senior soldier Alexander Dodarchuk.

        ATTENTION - approximately 200 people participated in the shootings !! Proud of nothing. SEE THE TEXT WHAT was in Ukr. army ...
        1. svvaulsh
          0
          14 September 2011 19: 53
          Where, brother, did you lose the pink glasses? Me in the 91st matchmaker re-swear the Ukrainian army ...... tongue
          1. +1
            15 September 2011 12: 42
            Quote: svvaulsh
            Where, brother, did you lose the pink glasses? Me in 91 th match up to repatriate the Ukrainian army ...... tongue

            NOT THE ARMY AND THE PEOPLE (even though they didn’t get it, it’s the PEOPLE)
  7. +2
    12 September 2011 21: 18
    Ukrainian army? And what is it?
    1. Bogatir
      -5
      13 September 2011 18: 13
      And for example, that after meeting with whom, the Russian army, in its current state, will cease to exist. Ukrainian truth is the same.
      1. Imperialist
        +3
        13 September 2011 20: 48
        And what is the state of the Russian army ???

        And what can the Ukrainian army oppose the Russian army ???
        1. Bogatir
          -2
          13 September 2011 21: 02
          Are you eager to develop this idea?
          1. Imperialist
            +3
            13 September 2011 21: 09
            And why, about Ukraine, everything is clear to me, I see you see, no, well, that's your problem.

            Let me remind you that Ukraine lives off of IMF loans, the state is bankrupt, what else needs to be said ???

            While Ukria is making ends meet, the RA for 2011 has only a $ 25 billion government defense order.
            1. Bogatir
              0
              17 September 2011 17: 54
              Quote: Imperialist
              For 2011, the RA has only a $ 25 billion defense order.

              - Do not make me laugh.
        2. +4
          15 September 2011 12: 54
          Quote: Imperialist

          And what can the Ukrainian army oppose the Russian army ???

          Well, you are my friend with an asshole !!! There will be no (yet) Citizens of Ukraine to fight with Citizens of Russia - FIVE people are still alive - many in the Russian Federation have relatives on both sides, many who were born THERE and live Here. Here propaGANDA works, it washes away the last brains (you also seem to be washing mosques if such questions are asked). Here Zapadintsi first WORK in Europe (it is with "E" in the English manner that Europe is difficult for them to speak, but we have a lot of scum) then they are driven to the East, they say we are ALREADY EUROPEANES and you are kind of wild (although in Europe Zapodyntsi Tokma are allowed to clean toilets ). So stu * si children will begin to cut each other, and then the Russian Federation will be trampled for "Ideals of SHIT." It can be seen in the statements of the people from the Russian Federation you also have Piarasyat - your crest is yours! And what kind of people - well, it will soon be forgotten.
          FROM YOURSELF: don’t put HERNY bro. You just lower yourself in the eyes of Humans, Anelu people will not understand what they mean.
      2. +1
        15 September 2011 12: 44
        Quote: Bogatir
        And for example, that after meeting with whom, the Russian army, in its current state, will cease to exist. Ukrainian truth is the same.

        there is no army in UKRAINE. There are separate more or less combat units BUT their such a minuscule that it is a shame to say.
        1. Bogatir
          -1
          17 September 2011 17: 56
          I have data from Western intelligence - that there is no Russian. And almost the maximum possible - a Georgian scam multiplied by two.
      3. 0
        15 September 2011 12: 55
        Quote: Imperialist

        And what can the Ukrainian army oppose the Russian army ???

        Well, you are my friend with an asshole !!! There will be no (yet) Citizens of Ukraine to fight with Russia - FIVE people are still alive - many in the Russian Federation have relatives on both sides, many who were born THERE and live Here. Here propaGANDA works, it washes away the last brains (you also seem to be washing mosques if such questions are asked). Here Zapadintsi first WORK in Europe (it is with "E" in the English manner that Europe is difficult for them to speak, but we have a lot of scum) then they are driven to the East, they say we are ALREADY EUROPEANES and you are kind of wild (although in Europe Zapodyntsi Tokma are allowed to clean toilets ). So stu * si children will start to cut each other, and there and the Russian Federation will be trampled for "Ideals of SHIT." It can be seen in the statements of the people from the Russian Federation you also have Piarasyat - your crest is yours! And what kind of rhodes ... well, it will soon be forgotten.
        FROM YOURSELF: don’t put HERNY bro. You just lower yourself in the eyes of the People, and the nonhumans do not understand what they mean.
  8. Tyumen
    +1
    12 September 2011 22: 17
    In Ukraine, its two troubles - the army and navy.
    1. svvaulsh
      0
      13 September 2011 16: 41
      Judging by the comments, there is no trouble left! wink
      1. Bogatir
        -2
        13 September 2011 18: 17
        The problem in the OTRK
    2. +1
      13 September 2011 16: 43
      Yes, no brother, like this: two troubles: the government - foreigners and lazy people to think.
    3. Bogatir
      -1
      13 September 2011 18: 16
      The fleet is in poor condition, but there is. A program has now begun for the construction of new ships and dual-use ships. The current one is more than thoroughly repaired.
      1. Tyumen
        +3
        13 September 2011 18: 52
        New * ships * is in the hospital, in the Navy - ships :)
        1. Bogatir
          -2
          13 September 2011 19: 24
          The ship is accepted, but in general - korobly. Ships are civilian watercraft.
  9. jamert
    +3
    13 September 2011 19: 11
    Lord-fellow countrymen-Ukrainians !!! I propose not to engage in nonsense and not to prove something on this subject! It is useless, and absolutely useless. Russian visitors to the site are firmly convinced that:
    1. Ukraine as a state does not exist.
    2. Ukrainians are traitors.
    3. The Russian army (even in its current state) is the strongest and invincible in the world.
    4. "Pindos" and other NATO members are weaklings and cowards.

    Anyway, they won’t be able to convince them of this, so let them say what they want.

    Now they will begin to minus me.
    1. Bogatir
      -5
      13 September 2011 19: 26
      I agree - there is such a smaller, but brighter part of the Russians. They generally live in illusions and dreams.
      1. Imperialist
        +3
        13 September 2011 20: 53
        And what is the state of the Russian Army ???

        And the army of which country is stronger than the Russian ????

        But Ukraine really is not an accomplished state but why argue.
        1. Bogatir
          -4
          13 September 2011 21: 04
          Time will judge about solvency - Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the Caucasus, Tatarstan, Mordva, the Trans-Urals, the Far East, Karelia, etc.
          1. Imperialist
            +2
            13 September 2011 21: 15
            And why, about Ukraine, everything is clear to me, I see you see, no, well, that's your problem.

            Let me remind you that Ukraine lives off of IMF loans, the state is bankrupt, what else needs to be said ???

            And why are you so divided between the regions of Russia ???

            Ukraine is also a very heterogeneous territory, its territorial integrity and independence or what is left of it is not provided by its own power, but is due only to external factors.

            Obviously, Ukraine will not exist for long within these borders.
            1. Bogatir
              -3
              13 September 2011 21: 41
              This is all a flame.
          2. +2
            14 September 2011 15: 53
            Yes, time will judge Novorossia, Tauris, Kiev region, Galicia and Transcarpathia ...
        2. +1
          13 September 2011 21: 47
          And what is the state of the Russian Army ???
          And the army of which country is stronger than the Russian ???

          Well, as long as there is a Strategic Missile Forces and the will of the government, then on the second ... if without strategists, then I think somewhere at 5-6.
    2. 0
      13 September 2011 21: 45
      Now they will begin to minus me.

      I will even give you a plus, there was a proposal to boycott all articles that about Russia, Belarus and Ukraine show in negative, I suggest throwing links from third-party resources, but not discussing them ...
      1. +1
        15 September 2011 13: 07
        Quote: PSih2097
        I will even give you a plus, there was a proposal to boycott all articles that about Russia, Belarus and Ukraine show in negative, I suggest throwing links from third-party resources, but not discussing them ...

        DO NOT do this, as a resident of a territory called Ukraine - do not.
        IT IS NECESSARY to discuss what is WRONG with us, and this must be done only in order to INCREASE in readers a THIRST to think and understand YOURSELF !! Look - in people's conversations, the link "THIS IS SO .... BECAUSE ..." catastrophically disappears, that is, people are disaccustomed (and they are disaccustomed) not to motivate their decisions (and they will be laid from the outside, for example, by advertising).
    3. +1
      13 September 2011 22: 10
      Quote: jamert
      Anyway, they won’t be able to convince them of this, so let them say that although

      And you do not drift! Write your opinion in the form of an article. The opinion of a person who is "cooking in this porridge" will be interesting!
      1. +1
        15 September 2011 13: 07
        + 100 with respect !!!
    4. +3
      14 September 2011 15: 50
      1. It is.
      2. Only a minority.
      3. Not yet.
      4. Pindos - yes, cowards. The rest are smaller.

      Not minus)
      1. +2
        15 September 2011 11: 06
        Add your own ...

        1. Ukraine as a state exists. But the term "existence" itself is far from the term "well-being" in meaning.
        2. Not at all. Here you are fundamentally wrong, as you mix the people and the government, which does not always behave adequately. On the other hand, it is your elected government. "I blinded him from what was, and now what was, I got" (aria of the Ukrainian people). Ukrainians are not traitors.
        3. I agree that not yet, but only the sick can discount the Russian army.
        4. Pindos - historically cowards. Unlike the Germans and the British.
        1. +1
          15 September 2011 13: 13
          Quote: Banshee
          1. Ukraine as a state exists.

          Does it exist ??? What is a state ?? And what of the functions of the state exist ??? There is only one thing - the system of slave labor of the population, the selection of funds from it and its redistribution among the rich. HERE. Everything else that is not subject to this is erased, destroyed.
          1. +1
            15 September 2011 14: 26
            Seems to be yes. Signs are: borders, government, parliament, army, police, customs, coat of arms, flag, laws like ...
            1. +1
              16 September 2011 13: 42
              Quote: Banshee
              Seems to be yes. Signs are: borders, government, parliament, army, police, customs, coat of arms, flag, laws like ...

              and all this for the robbery (and destruction) of his people! How many Ukrainians were at the independence date of 52 million. How many on the 20 anniversary are 47 millions. And that annual loss - 0,25 million per year !! You have not dreamed of such an intensity of losses in Chechnya. Count in your Russian Federation such numbers ...
        2. +2
          15 September 2011 13: 28
          H. Banshee, you do self-education (there is no time to dump the zinc on the sources) - THE PEOPLE DOESN'T CHOOSE FOR A LONG TIME !!! THIS IS ALL FARS, THE THEATER for PLEBS (stupid and lazy because the plebs would have a desire to understand, to become PEOPLE - there is a lot of information, because laziness FORWARD is PLEBS and TO BE DISRUPTED).
          In connection with the foregoing, your statement:
          Quote: Banshee
          On the other hand, this is your chosen government.

          fundamentally wrong. Let me remind you, heard such as PR ??? Why are they running in the elections ??? And why does this participation not cause you any suspicion and not protest ?? After all, this is a statement of the fact that you, me, all are * fucked up !!! This specialty is actually designed to DEPE !!!! And you swallow it from time to time.
          1. +1
            15 September 2011 14: 23
            Sources do not need, and to repeat already written in other topics reluctance. Actually, my personal opinion is not very different from yours. I have already expressed it more than once. And it causes not only protest, but also action. At least December 5 can say to myself that everything that depended on me was done.
            1. +1
              16 September 2011 13: 15
              Quote: Banshee
              Sources do not need, and to repeat already written in other topics reluctance. Actually, my personal opinion is not very different from yours. I have already expressed it more than once. And it causes not only protest, but also action. At least December 5 can say to myself that everything that depended on me was done.

              I dare say that studying materials (NLP, other practical psychology) helps me in life.
              In most cases, cheap, simple cliches of approaches are used, which should simply be attributed to ONE of your reactions - to send your opponent to X .. well, even if not directly, let him immediately break off the conversation and leave. Because (and this is PROVED in such texts) it is an information virus (the more we listen, the more we lose the ability to make decisions on our own). Well, for example: the phrase ".. AND IN REALITY ..." should cause at least alertness (the optimum is a sending to X), since the structure does not contain motivation (the bunch is THIS BECAUSE).
              The link ".. AND IN REALITY ..." is very frequent in TV brainwashing (it is not for nothing that they say that the box ZOMBIES) there, without JUSTIFICATION, they simply hammer (call a person a pig DENSE once, and it will become one) into the brain of attitudes and stereotypes. It is for this reason that the educational system of the USSR model is being destroyed (developing the personality as a creator, thinker, analyst). A stupid, not educated cattle is easier to manage.
            2. +1
              16 September 2011 13: 47
              Quote: Banshee
              Sources do not need, and to repeat already written in other topics reluctance. Actually, my personal opinion is not very different from yours. I have already expressed it more than once. And it causes not only protest, but also action. At least December 5 can say to myself that everything that depended on me was done.

              aamin. Do not read, do not think, do not worry about your children ... You have already done everything you could. Bravo! Well done. Tokma brought you here (to this site), well, just as much as he could. Sit yourself now festering ... maybe, sorry, died before you saw the suffering of your children and grandchildren .. I do not want this, and therefore I DID NOT DO ANYTHING.
        3. +1
          15 September 2011 14: 38
          1. State institutions exist. But they do not turn Ukraine into a state, because this territory did not and cannot have the main thing - sovereignty.
          2. You make hasty conclusions based on just one phrase. I didn’t mix anyone with anything. In addition to the government, there is a part of the population who consider the separation of Russia and Ukraine to be correct. I have nothing to do with the election of their government - I am a citizen of Russia.
          3. Sooner or later, our Army will become the strongest in the world.
          4. The British are here sideways ??? They did not prove themselves to be anything special on the battlefields.
          1. +1
            16 September 2011 13: 28
            Quote: Beil88
            1. State institutions exist. But they do not turn Ukraine into a state, because this territory did not and cannot have the main thing - sovereignty.
            2. You make hasty conclusions based on just one phrase. I didn’t mix anyone with anything. In addition to the government, there is a part of the population who consider the separation of Russia and Ukraine to be correct. I have nothing to do with the election of their government - I am a citizen of Russia.
            3. Sooner or later, our Army will become the strongest in the world.
            4. The British are here sideways ??? They did not prove themselves to be anything special on the battlefields.

            ON THE FIRST QUESTION: WHAT IS SOVEREIGNTY ???? IN THE CENTURY OF GLOBALIZATION INDEPENDENCE ??? NO SUCH ALREADY IN ANY STATE. You just powder MOSCOW! Think for yourself. In Russia, too, there is no sovereignty - it is a dependent country, Europe is also dependent ... so sho crap, Your Honor.
            ON THE SECOND QUESTION: If I got excited, sorry. Part of the population really is - the fifth column, new nomads, those 5-10% who sold their homeland for sick money, and they do not care where to live, their greedy kisses kissed. And you have to do with the election of at least your government, even if you don’t go to the polling station. Unfortunately, thanks to such people from their amorphous life position, fratricide can take place, in addition, the lazy brain can not realize that it is not Russian and not Ukrainians scum, it is just perfecting the TECHNOLOGY. And after the war between the Russian Federation and Ukr, there will be a war in the Russian Federation itself (Chechnya is not enough for you ????).
            THIRD: God grant us that your (I dream that OUR) army will rise from the ashes)
            ON THE FOURTH: Please google for the colonial conquest of England .... you yourself will see the light of ang. the queen is bloodthirsty ... and that the rest are just children (including the Führer. Hitler is just a child with a toy.)
            1. +1
              16 September 2011 14: 49
              1. I partially agree on the first issue. It is only a matter of degree of dependence and the possibility of manifesting one's own will. Ukraine does not have its own will at all. And the Russian Federation and the United States have the ability to act at their discretion. To a certain extent, of course.

              2. Do not think that everyone is blinded, do not understand anything and hate each other. The conditions for the reunification of all three parts of the Russian nation did not finally develop. Therefore, there will still be attempts to bleed the brothers among themselves. In my opinion, a war between the Russian Federation and Ukraine is unlikely, and if it does, it will only accelerate the unification of the two countries and the fall of the pro-Western regime, and is unlikely to lead to conflicts within Russia - why would it?

              3. I believe that by then it will be OUR Army.

              4. You are right, they are still live-beeps ... And the same gentlemen gentlemen came up with concentration camps, and not the Bolsheviks and the Nazis. But the colonization of the Papuans, armed with bows, has nothing to do with fighting against a technically equal, economically strong and morally stable enemy, like the Germans, for example. The British are simply incapable of fighting them.
              1. +1
                17 September 2011 15: 22
                Quote: Beil88
                The conditions for the reunification of all three parts of the Russian nation did not finally develop. Therefore, there will still be attempts to bleed the brothers among themselves. In my opinion, a war between the Russian Federation and Ukraine is unlikely, and if it does, it will only accelerate the unification of the two countries and the fall of the pro-Western regime, and is unlikely to lead to conflicts within Russia - why would it?

                Well, you show a striking ignorance and, for starters, we will take for a reason the lack of time, BEFORE the signs of the analytical mind (Sorry - said in order to trick you, not to insult):
                First, we are now really armed with LUKS. Have you heard of the railgun ???? The Russian Federation is only developing, and the USA and NATO are already arming the LATEST lateral ships. You saw how the non-lethal weapons (UHF, LF) or Laser weapons work in tanks and trenches you won’t be saved - (why kill slaves - in the filter. Camp, and then to work or to spare parts, to organs) so sho here. We are Indians for the state should allocate money for the defense industry (AND AT the research institute too).
                And it’s not the Pindos who will fight with us, but their citizens - such as Georgia, Ukraine, Romanians, etc. (if you had a little history, you would have learned that England - 90% of its interests were acquired by forces of other countries, simply baiting or forcing whole armies of other countries to fight for themselves. So the technologies are developed ...)
                1. +1
                  17 September 2011 17: 23
                  I just noticed - it’s somehow strange that you answered my message addressed to Banshee, and even apologized for it (2 point from 4's) ... Are you, by any chance, the same person?

                  Well, you have not shown your, no doubt, powerful, analytical mind? And did not bring sensible arguments in defense of the reality of the war between Ukraine and Russia?

                  So ... Something, dear, you dumped everything in a heap ... Railgun, UHF, trenches, camps, colonialism ... And you didn’t write anything worthwhile on the points discussed.
                  1. +1
                    19 September 2011 18: 48
                    Quote: Beil88
                    I just noticed - it’s somehow strange that you answered my message addressed to Banshee, and even apologized for it (2 point from 4's) ... Are you, by any chance, the same person?

                    .. well, dear for intimate communication there is such a thing as "personal" if the conversation flows here, it means for public discussion.


                    Quote: Beil88
                    Well, you have not shown your, no doubt, powerful, analytical mind? And did not bring sensible arguments in defense of the reality of the war between Ukraine and Russia?

                    And you, dear press, read those not only the Russian Federation but also the Ukrainian. It is known to you that under the PRESIDENTIAL elections, the REAL war between the East and the West of Ukraine is being inflated here ??? Have you seen your skinheads? So is the same UNSO. Money of Europe is poured there on which some bastards (from the West) Shukhevych sewed into the heroes of Ukraine, others from the east) they chew a language gum (we have a LANGUAGE PROBLEM as if ... Ukrainian is not native to Russian! Blah !!) Here you will perfect the technology (here LLC Very visible ears of special services) and will move to YOU! yes yes it is TO YOU - you have RESOURCES (we are experimental rats for PR technologies ..). You, too, instead of explaining to people that the Khokhly, Rus and Bulbash are one nation, are burning the fire of hostility. You forgot that if a person is constantly called a Donkey, he will bleach. You look, now the Pepsi Generation believes that the USA won the war, and the Jews suffered losses !!
                  2. +1
                    19 September 2011 18: 53
                    Quote: Beil88
                    I just noticed - it’s somehow strange that you answered my message addressed to Banshee, and even apologized for it (2 point from 4's) ... Are you, by any chance, the same person?

                    .. well, dear for intimate communication there is such a thing as "personal" if the conversation flows here, it means for public discussion.


                    Quote: Beil88
                    Well, you have not shown your, no doubt, powerful, analytical mind? And did not bring sensible arguments in defense of the reality of the war between Ukraine and Russia?

                    And you, dear press, read those not only the Russian Federation but also the Ukrainian. It is known to you that under the PRESIDENTIAL elections, the REAL war between the East and the West of Ukraine is being inflated here ??? Have you seen your skinheads? So is the same UNSO. Money of Europe is poured there on which some bastards (from the West) Shukhevych sewed into the heroes of Ukraine, others from the east) they chew a language gum (we have a LANGUAGE PROBLEM as if ... Ukrainian is not native to Russian! Blah !!) Here you will perfect the technology (here LLC Very visible ears of special services) and will move to YOU! yes yes it is TO YOU - you have RESOURCES (we are experimental rats for PR technologies ..).
                  3. +1
                    19 September 2011 19: 14
                    Quote: Beil88
                    So ... Something, dear, you dumped everything in a heap ... Railgun, UHF, trenches, camps, colonialism ... And you didn’t write anything worthwhile on the points discussed.

                    Well, here's a typical unmotivated excuse. Like "Samdurak!" credited.
                    1. +1
                      20 September 2011 06: 57
                      Quote: Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
                      Well, here's a typical unmotivated excuse. Like "Samdurak!" credited.


                      No, why so ... It’s just that for me personally, the connection between the modern development of military technologies in Russia and the nature of waging the British Empire in the era of colonialism is incomprehensible.

                      As for Ukraine: I made a conclusion about the unlikely likelihood of a Russian-Ukrainian war based on an analysis of the 2008 Russian-Georgian war. We could easily capture all of Georgia and annex it to ourselves if we wanted - most of the Georgian population would only be FOR. But they are not even Slavs, but simply a close, kindred people to us. And here the Ukrainians are one blood, part of the divided Russian people. The West, which is now ruling the fraternal country, is well aware that Kiev will not win the war alone. Engage in a fight with Russia on the Ukrainian side? - The post-nuclear world is guaranteed to the planet! Having suffered defeat in a one-on-one war, the "state of Ukraine" will cease to exist, its territory will become part of Russia, the issue of the Black Sea Fleet will disappear by itself, the front of the Western Military District will go far beyond the right bank of the Dnieper, the Slavic countries of Eastern Europe and the Balkans will rise, feeling close The Russian state, in general, will collapse all the strategic developments of the Western world over the past 20 years. Do they need it?
                      I saw skinheads more than once, communicated, there are different people. I have not met the Bandera people live, they are far from me. Anti-Russian sentiments are kindled there, on this principle, in fact, the Ukrainian "state" can only exist - there are simply no other justifications for its life, but the majority of the population are still normal, adequate people who preserve their ancestral memory. Russia still has time.
                      1. +1
                        20 September 2011 17: 06
                        Quote: Beil88
                        It’s just that, in fact, for me personally, the connection between the modern development of military technologies in Russia and the nature of wars by the British Empire in the era of colonialism is incomprehensible.

                        Hmm ... maybe I really crumpled my speech .... sorry.
                        As you know, from system engineering - the whole system, a small system is a component of a large one (I ask a system engineer to excuse a very free quote, but I’m too lazy to google ...) So, this is a question of this order, how to consider the conditions for your development, well, let's take for example left, hands separated from the body as a whole. And then, with horror, puzzle over "why she is underdeveloped, probably because she has five fingers on her !!"
                        So tactics are part of the strategy, and weapons are subordinate to tactics, so draw a conclusion. The tragedy of the USSR is that military thought did not catch the transition of DETERMINING military operations from conventional (shooting at the enemy) to informational (DO NOT * so that they themselves are exhausted). It is strange and sad that, in principle, educated heads, like you, do not look at least a little step forward. It’s no secret that BEFORE, TIME and AFTER the immediate military operations (conditionally - shooting) work a FORCE of information processing (here is zinc http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/force/737-2011-01- 05-17-59-07.html).

                        And you and I ARE SUBJECTED TO INFORMATION BOMBING as we are quietly (in accordance with the theory of Gramsci, small changes are not seen by a person) propagandized "MOSKAL is your enemy, as if the blame is not an enemy and not Ukrainets" SYNCHRONOUSly the same " - padonak, eats our gas. " Do you think that a war will start in ten years. Yes, because you and I will die, and those mosques will remain that contain these installations. And so that you do not doubt that this (washing out of Moscow) is put on the conveyor of mass production, google the information about the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations as the progenitor of behavioristics and other combat psychology. In particular, you can feel the fruits of combat psychology for yourself: in the days of the USSR, advertising did not hate it in a harsh way, but informed. What now - they poke you poisonous poison like food, they boast on TV (programs in the spirit of the Habitat) that you are eating and dying creatures (under the guise of allegedly enlightening the population) and YOU DOESN'T EVEN FEEL A PROTEST to this ??? The question does not appear: BLAH, I PAY TAXES, WHERE IS THIS FINE STATE !! Why doesn't it NIFIGA do it to shield me ???

                        This is what I’m for, of course, we won’t raise our hands against each other, IF we don’t allow washing Moscow .... then we will turn into those famous Indians who were destroyed by no less famous shaving.
                      2. 0
                        20 September 2011 17: 07
                        Quote: Beil88
                        It’s just that, in fact, for me personally, the connection between the modern development of military technologies in Russia and the nature of wars by the British Empire in the era of colonialism is incomprehensible.

                        Hmm ... maybe I really crumpled my speech .... sorry.
                        As you know, from system engineering - the whole system, a small system is a component of a large one (I ask a system engineer to excuse a very free quote, but I’m too lazy to google ...) So, this is a question of this order, how to consider the conditions for your development, well, let's take for example left, hands separated from the body as a whole. And then, with horror, puzzle over "why she is underdeveloped, probably because she has five fingers on her !!"
                        So tactics are part of the strategy, and weapons are subordinate to tactics, so draw a conclusion. The tragedy of the USSR is that military thought did not catch the transition of DETERMINING military operations from conventional (shooting at the enemy) to informational (DO NOT * so that they themselves are exhausted). It is strange and sad that, in principle, educated heads, like you, do not look at least a little step forward. It’s no secret that BEFORE, TIME and AFTER the immediate military operations (conditionally - shooting) work a FORCE of information processing (here is zinc http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/force/737-2011-01- 05-17-59-07.html).
                        And you and I ARE SUBJECTED TO INFORMATION BOMBING as we are quietly (in accordance with the theory of Gramsci, small changes are not seen by a person) propagandized "MOSKAL is your enemy, as if the blame is not an enemy and not Ukrainets" SYNCHRONOUSly the same " - padonak, eats our gas. " Do you think that a war will start in ten years. Yes, because you and I will die, and those mosques will remain that contain these installations. And so that you do not doubt that this (washing out of Moscow) is put on the conveyor of mass production, google the information about the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations as the progenitor of behavioristics and other combat psychology. In particular, you can feel the fruits of combat psychology for yourself: in the days of the USSR, advertising did not hate it in a harsh way, but informed. What now - they poke you poisonous poison like food, they boast on TV (programs in the spirit of the Habitat) that you are eating and dying creatures (under the guise of allegedly enlightening the population) and YOU DOESN'T EVEN FEEL A PROTEST to this ??? The question does not appear: BLAH, I PAY TAXES, WHERE IS THIS FINE STATE !! Why doesn't it NIFIGA do it to shield me ???

                        This is what I mean, of course, we will not raise our hands against each other, IF we do not allow washing Moscow ....
                      3. +1
                        20 September 2011 18: 41
                        Quote: Beil88
                        No, why so ... It’s just that for me personally, the connection between the modern development of military technologies in Russia and the nature of waging the British Empire in the era of colonialism is incomprehensible.

                        It’s like they executed it: they’ve remembered the revolution for you (the 21 CAC regiment on the spot Iraqi leprosy is described, I think that 2 is no better in Khazaria .. well, there was an adviser to the head of the SBU of the US intelligence and with a cabinet with extraterritorial status next to the first SBUshnik! !!): http://www.1-sovetnik.com/articles/article-667.html

                        Have you seen the embassy in the USA ???? Google, looks like a military base !!!!!
                    2. +1
                      20 September 2011 07: 01
                      Oh, I became an efor .. I grow wink
                      1. +1
                        20 September 2011 17: 20
                        MOVING: wink NOT JEFFORITER, but SENIOR SOLDIER !! My MESSAGES .... fellow
                      2. +1
                        21 September 2011 13: 36
                        Thank! The truth is already corporal wink
    5. +2
      15 September 2011 13: 44
      Quote: jamert
      Lord-fellow countrymen-Ukrainians !!! I propose not to engage in nonsense and not to prove something on this subject! It is useless, and absolutely useless. Russian visitors to the site are firmly convinced that:
      1. Ukraine as a state does not exist.
      2. Ukrainians are traitors.
      3. The Russian army (even in its current state) is the strongest and invincible in the world.
      4. "Pindos" and other NATO members are weaklings and cowards.

      Anyway, they won’t be able to convince them of this, so let them say what they want.

      Now they will begin to minus me.

      AND YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE WHICH ARE JOBS, THAT VANKA BEGINS HIMSELF ???? YOU NEED A WRITER WRITTEN - we -removed-loafers, all around are good, we are the only idiots ???
      Ukraine itself needs to rise and begin to respect itself, and not drool: well, who are they if: they have screwed up their economy (the plants are standing, the workshops have been turned into retail outlets, Scientific centers are standing, scientists have either emigrated or they are selling garbage in the bazaars. The population is dying out. And all Ukrainians are to blame for this, because they contribute to this with their life position).
    6. Mesniy
      -1
      18 September 2011 20: 54
      Well, here not everyone is so awesome if that. Although you are largely right.
  10. slan
    +1
    14 September 2011 20: 06
    The third day I can’t understand what the argument is about. There are subjects of international law, but there are objects (passive). Ukraine has chosen the orientation with which the normal army is not taken.
    It would be strange and ridiculous if the Ukrainian government spent the lion's share of the meager budget on military spending.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. 12061973
    0
    16 September 2011 13: 38
    no one knows what is happening with military unit 94004 Chertkov, Ternopil region, Ukraine does it exist. There was an air force base under the USSR.
  13. Motherland
    +1
    17 September 2011 17: 38
    Oh, when will the fraternal peoples face off? Probably only when changing the government of both