Dreadnought Heir

65
If you need a lot of attack missiles, and nowhere to place them, you need a new class of ships

The contradiction between the need to apply massed rocket attacks and limited ammunition can be resolved by creating a qualitatively different type of ship. Its distinctive features will be a radically increased strike potential and powerful structural protection in combination with effective means of self-defense. In other words, we need a dreadnought of the 21st century.

Recently, we have seen a pronounced process of increasing unification of surface ships of the main classes. However, such standardization assumes that the efficiency of solving particular problems under given constraints will be lower, and sometimes significantly, than with specialized ships. This trend suggests that so far a complete understanding by military science of changes in the tasks of the fleets and the methods of their solution has not happened. Behind the promising non-vanishing ships of the main classes, the role of the escorting forces is mechanically left, and shock functions are also assigned to them.

An analysis of the experience of wars and armed conflicts of recent decades, as well as the capabilities of new weapons systems, in particular, ship-based air defense systems and, in particular, multi-channel long-range and medium-range air defense systems, shows that promising universal ships may not be able to fulfill all their expectations. First of all, we are talking about percussion problems.

Floating Arsenal

Consider the task of defeating ground objects in an air offensive operation. The number required for the destruction or incapacitation of air defense facilities to ensure its reliable suppression in an operationally important area, even when waging wars against third world countries, amounts to dozens and even several hundred. If we consider that each of them requires several missiles (2 – 10 and more), then it may be required from 500 – 700 to 1500 and more placed on the missiles. Otherwise, the solution of the first operational task of the air operation - the conquest of superiority in the air is threatened. What, then, is to be said about the conduct of hostilities against highly militarily developed countries?

“The English admiralty made the right conclusion: the low efficiency of large-caliber artillery is not connected with the power of its guns, but with their insufficient number”
The situation is even more acute with the solution of the problem of causing an unacceptable defeat to non-nuclear strategic weapons military potential and the enemy’s economy. Today, the United States is creating a system of rapid global strike, designed specifically for the disarming effect on the nuclear forces of the enemy (Russia), the suppression of its system of state and military leadership and control, the destruction of strategic potential. The task of creating such a system in Russia has already been formulated by our senior management. At the same time, the problem of placing many hundreds and thousands of long-range cruise missiles on carriers (the number of ICBMs with non-nuclear warheads will be incomparably smaller) remains. The carriers of the bulk of this mass of missiles should be military fleets — only they can approach a salvo range. Sufficient strategic aviation The US is unable to replace the Navy. In Russia, the number of strategic aviation which is small, when solving such problems, you can only rely on the fleet.

There is also the problem of defeating groups of surface ships, especially those with powerful multi-channel air defense systems. The capabilities of an anti-aircraft missile system (ZSR) of only one such ship (such as Ticonderoga or Orly Burk) even for low-flying small-sized anti-ship cruise missiles (RCC) are estimated for one firing cycle from three to four to seven to eight missiles, depending on the trajectory and speed. As part of an aircraft carrier group (led by one aircraft carrier) such ships can be from three to five to seven units. Given the participation rate, they will be able to destroy from 12 – 20 to 25 – 30 missiles in a firing cycle, that is, in less than 20 – 30 seconds.

Modern Russian surface ships have no more than 20 PKR on the cruisers of the project 1144. The rest have no more than 16 CRP. It is difficult to ensure such coordination of launching of missiles in order to maintain the time interval of their approach to targets with a range of volley less than 20 – 30 seconds, even when working with ships of the same order.

Dreadnought Heir


The situation with submarines is even worse. Having a maximum of 24 missiles onboard (in the 949A submarine of the project), they can only deliver weakly coordinated time-based volleys, since acting alone at large distances from each other in counter conditions of the enemy’s anti-submarine defense forces (PLO) seconds Thus, a powerful missile volley of a heterogeneous strike force will be “smeared” in time. The missiles will approach the target with groups of 15 – 20 units and be “ground” by the air defense system. The probability of success in this case is small.

Not much better results are achieved, even if in one or two installations of vertical launch there are a sufficiently large number of missiles. Their withdrawal from launchers (launchers) is possible at intervals of five to seven seconds. Accordingly, for a shooting cycle, no more than four to six missiles can be fired from one launcher, and from eight (as is happening today on such large ships as Ticonderoga and Orly Burk) - eight to twelve. It is very difficult to solve the problem of creating a volley of sufficient density. There may be objections: they say, before such problems did not exist, there were enough 16 – 20 missiles to “penetrate” the air defense of the enemy aircraft carrier group. Indeed, since previously there was no such saturation of multichannel air defense systems, this was enough. At that time, the air defense system was based on single-channel complexes - Terrier, Tartar, Talos. The total connectivity did not exceed three or four such missiles. Accordingly, a salvo from 12 – 16 and even eight missiles was quite enough for an income to the target of two or three or more missiles, taking into account the resistance of the EW system. Today the situation has changed qualitatively. The capabilities of the air defense system have grown by an order of magnitude and continue to increase, starting to exceed the capacity of the existing ship forces to create a salvo necessary to overcome it. There is a growing contradiction between the need for delivering massed strikes by long-range cruise missiles (CD BD) to ground targets and the existing capacities of their carriers. The resolution of these contradictions is possible by creating a fundamentally new class of ships.

The battleship battleships that replaced the battleships (or, as they were called after the reclassification, battleships-dodrednounouts) were named after the first ship of this class, the English Dreadnought. The experience of the Russian-Japanese war 1904 – 1905 showed that the artillery of medium calibres became the main cause of the death of heavy ships - squadron battleships and armored cruisers, although it could not always penetrate armor. The English admiralty made a completely correct conclusion that the low efficiency of large-caliber artillery is not connected with the power of its guns, but with their insufficient number (for four large-caliber accounted for up to 24 – 30 of medium caliber). Given the inevitable increase in booking, the English fleet has relied on a radical increase in the number of main-caliber guns on new battleships. Thus was born the "Dreadnought", which marked the beginning of a new type of battleship, which existed in the fleets until the end of the twentieth century.

We see a similar situation today. There are a lot of attack missiles, and the existing classes do not allow them to be placed in sufficient quantities. Need a new class of ships.

And the drone to boot

The appearance of the new ship is advisable to determine, starting from the tasks assigned to it. The first of them is the defeat of ground-based objects of the Kyrgyz Republic BD according to the plan of possible operations and combat actions: air, sea, Ground forces on coastal directions, and also to destroy the economic and military potential of the enemy with non-nuclear strategic weapons. Experience shows that even in relatively small-scale conflicts, such as NATO aggression against Yugoslavia or against Iraq and Libya, the expenditure of the KR database was huge - from a few hundred to a thousand and a half. In the case of such actions against developed and larger states, missiles will require up to several thousand. And Russia does not have any other carriers, except for surface ships and submarines, and in the near future they will not appear. To accommodate such a large number of KR database on existing classes of ships, even promising, they will need more than a hundred. This is completely unthinkable, primarily for economic reasons. Acceptable number of ships - within a dozen or a half. This means: on each of them the number of hosted CRs should be measured in hundreds. Given the limitations associated with an acceptable displacement, weight and size characteristics of existing and prospective DPS and the KR BD themselves, it can be considered reasonable to have onboard a 192 – 256 missiles deployed in several DPS.

The second task is the defeat of large enemy surface groups with a powerful air defense. Overcoming it implies the need to form a volley from one ship with a density exceeding the fire capabilities of the air defense system no less than one and a half times. Then, taking into account the electronic countermeasures really defeat the main goal. That is, the rate of missile launch should be at least 60 – 70 missiles per minute. This means that the DPS on the ship must be placed in four to five groups, separated so that they can be launched simultaneously.

In fact, this is where the requirements for the shock weapons of such a ship are completed. The situation is really somewhat reminiscent of the one that served as the basis for the appearance of the Dreadnought, a radical increase in spite of the prevailing stereotypes of the main strike weapon.

In addition, the new ship needs an autonomous target designation system that provides long-range missile strikes with its missiles. The best option could be to equip your own system of reconnaissance and surveillance of the surface situation on the basis of the UAV. The ability to patrol at a distance of up to 400 kilometers from the order for three to four hours will allow you to control the sea space in one direction with up to three UAVs. And the corresponding detection range of the onboard radar station of the UAV will provide observation of the main ships of the order beyond the reach of their anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM), that is, at least 200 – 250 kilometers. The UAV, therefore, will be large enough and can become one of the main targets for the air defense system of the enemy’s naval connection. Accordingly, in order to ensure combat stability, it is necessary for it to have a high limiting flight speed for evading fighter attacks and effective radio-electronic means of self-defense.

Constructive protection and self-defense

Other requirements that determine the appearance of the ship necessary today concern the defense system and constructive protection. As part of the anti-submarine defense, it does not make sense to assign the task of detecting and defeating submarines to it. Such a ship will never act alone and as part of the ship group will always be the core of the order, around which the PLO system will begin to be built by other forces. In this regard, he must be able to repel blows from underwater weapons — torpedoes of various types. To do this, it must be equipped with a highly effective set of anti-torpedo protection.

Being a ship of the nucleus, he should not solve the tasks of collective air defense for the same reasons that have been expressed with regard to the system of air defense. For this reason, the composition of its air defense weapons may reasonably be limited to those necessary for self-defense. However, they should be sufficient to repel the most powerful missile strike, even in the conditions of weakening the collective air defense system. Taking into account the above considerations on the possible density of a volley, it is advisable to put forward to his self-defense system the requirement to have at least 20 – 24 target channels on board. That is, at least five or six multi-channel short-range air defense missile systems and two to four anti-aircraft artillery systems (ZAK) or anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems (ZRAK) on board. Not so exaggerated requirements, given that the aircraft-carrying cruiser of the 1143.5 project, designed in the 70-ies, has two short-range multi-channel air defense missile systems and four air defense systems each.

Special attention deserves constructive protection. The ship must have sufficiently powerful reservations and other effective elements of constructive protection and durability struggles to withstand at least four to five anti-ship missiles with kilograms of 350 – 500 without loss of combat capability, and also to be able to return to base with 10 – 12 such rockets. In this case, when confronted with an equivalent compound, after the preemptive strike of the enemy, he will retain the ability to strike back. These are quite achievable indicators - the Second World War battleships withstood a greater number of hits of 500-kilogram aerial bombs and 700 – 1200-kilogram shells. Today, the possibility of creating a more durable and easy structural protection is much broader. The reference to the probability of the destruction of a ship by a nuclear strike is not fully justified. It’s fundamentally impossible to create a high-density volley with missiles in nuclear equipment, since undermining the warhead of such anti-ship missiles, brought down by the air defense system, will destroy all others within a radius of several kilometers, the electromagnetic pulse will destroy the electronics at long distances, and the remaining ionized cloud for a long time time will impede the work of the homing missiles.

Autonomy, speed and seaworthiness should correspond to similar characteristics of ships of other classes of the ocean zone, so that the “new dreadnought” could operate as part of the operational squadrons of the Russian Navy. It can be assigned the function of a command ship on which the group commander and his headquarters will be located. It must have a developed airborne communications complex and a sufficiently powerful combat information and control system, allowing to ensure the control of operational connection forces. The displacement of such a ship, according to rough estimates, can range from 35 to 45 thousand tons.

Such is the image of a qualitatively new type of ship, the distinctive features of which are radically increased strike potential and powerful structural protection combined with effective means of self-defense.
65 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +5
    6 December 2014 08: 09
    Interesting article! I put +
    1. +1
      6 December 2014 10: 14
      Indeed, why not make a super-giant ship carrying thousands of medium, short and long range missiles, like an island full of s-300, 400, 500 and iskander systems and a couple of yards with poplars, accompanied by submarines and cover ships. The length is three tankers and the width is a couple.
      1. jjj
        +16
        6 December 2014 14: 26
        Better five ships on 20 missiles with a single control center than one ship on 100 missiles
        1. +2
          7 December 2014 00: 01
          Quote: jjj
          Better five ships on 20 missiles with a single control center than one ship on 100 missiles

          the article just proves the opposite
          1. 0
            9 December 2014 05: 03
            have 192 – 256 missiles on board

            Immediately obvious, the programmer writes :) (at least - IT specialist)
          2. Kassandra
            0
            11 December 2014 13: 50
            Otherwise, in order to lose everything at once from just one non-nuclear torpedo.
          3. 0
            31 December 2014 23: 32
            The article is nonsense, the idea of ​​an arsenal ship appeared 40 years ago and was buried at the same time.
            Such a monster will cost more than an aircraft carrier with an air group, while a salvo of its missiles will cost the price of another such ship.
            And who would dare to risk such an overly expensive toy?)
        2. 0
          8 December 2014 11: 14
          1 ship can accommodate the best equipment - sensors, command center, etc.
          These disputes have already been going on over 100 years ago in Germany, England and Holland, and history has proved that a large fleet needs large units.
      2. +14
        6 December 2014 15: 43
        There is Cuba, why ship?
        1. +3
          6 December 2014 17: 43
          Bravo. Our Guarantor has already hinted at a non-standard answer - well, you can certainly repeat it. like "Anadyr 2", then the Americans will start frolicking. Maakkein will sit in the catapult personally.
      3. +5
        6 December 2014 15: 51
        The main condition, as I understand it, is to be larger and well observed from space ...
      4. +1
        6 December 2014 16: 18
        They certainly won’t regret the vigorous bonbu.
        1. Kassandra
          0
          11 December 2014 13: 53
          Enough of a conventional torpedo ...
      5. +13
        6 December 2014 17: 54
        How is this? wink
        1. +1
          6 December 2014 23: 37
          And where is the gdp for the UAV? lol
      6. +1
        7 December 2014 09: 07
        Quote: Max_Bauder
        Indeed, why not make a super-giant ship carrying thousands of medium, short and long range missiles, like an island full of s-300, 400, 500 and iskander systems and a couple of yards with poplars, accompanied by submarines and cover ships. The length is three tankers and the width is a couple.

        In a possibly not so distant future, a military confrontation sooner or later will still go into space. With the deployment in space of combat orbital stations, the era of warships will sink into the past. In the event of a conflict, all floating scrap metal from any aircraft carrier will be destroyed by volleys of proton emitters within a few seconds.
        PS Once upon a time, the stories of J. Verne to contemporaries also seemed fantasies.
    2. 0
      7 December 2014 06: 36
      It seems to me that the problem of the large potential of anti-missile weapons of an aircraft carrier group is easier to solve qualitatively, and not through quantitative suppression of missile defense. Namely, to develop less noticeable missiles, to suppress enemy radars, to use non-standard methods of attack, for example, rocket-torpedoes, which, when entering the air defense zone, go into a submerged position or shoot a torpedo. Well, in the extreme case of a global war, no one has canceled nuclear weapons. also, if you really follow the path of "quantity", you can make shock anti-ship missiles with multiple warheads and shoot decoys.
      1. +1
        7 December 2014 19: 35
        the French have RCC with a thermonuclear charge. I suspect that he will not have such an EM pulse as from a uranium / plutonium charge.

        so there will be one / two anti-ship missiles with a special unit, and the rest for overloading an air defense warrant - and no monsters will be needed.

        But in this material, Sivkov talked about working along the coast, and here most likely thousands of anti-ship missiles are needed
        1. 0
          8 December 2014 00: 42
          To do this, it’s easier to attach a barge with a thousand missiles to the order. Or arm the tanker with launchers.
    3. Pervusha Isaev
      0
      7 December 2014 22: 30
      such battleships need to be built ...
  3. 0
    6 December 2014 08: 17
    It remains only to wish good luck to the designers and us patience drinks
  4. +2
    6 December 2014 08: 18
    I agree with the article - but again the arms race again the money will fly to kill and not to build - but at the same time I'm glad that we did not start it
  5. +4
    6 December 2014 08: 30
    The only way to success is to balance the characteristics of the ship! And for this we need clear views on how it will be used, under what conditions. Based on this, warships should be designed. So that later there are no stupid questions, why they did one thing, and when the conditions of the tasks change, another thing turns out ..
    1. +2
      6 December 2014 08: 36
      Quote: Rurikovich
      we need clear views on how it will be used, under what conditions. Based on this, warships should be designed. So that later there are no stupid questions, why they did one thing, and when the conditions of the tasks change, another thing turns out ..

      I’m afraid the cost of this ship will be such that it’s not even worth dreaming about their large number. So he must perform tasks in a wide range, including the north, with its ice.
  6. +1
    6 December 2014 08: 32
    What size will this ship have? In fact, he has to replace one whole division-strike ship and his own escort and air defense.
    1. +1
      6 December 2014 20: 58
      A kind of Chinese box.
    2. +1
      6 December 2014 21: 57
      Not specifically about the described ship, but rather conceptually: the approach to the construction of the Navy, it seems to me, came from the understanding that no matter how the ship grouping is balanced by specialized ships, each of them is vulnerable. And at some point it turns out that one of the components (air defense, anti-aircraft defense, carrier anti-ship missiles or an aircraft carrier) will be ineffective. In the case of a universal ship (with all its disadvantages), it is self-sufficient for any number of ships in the group. In addition, the customer (Navy) clearly understood that we did not have much coordination, so let everyone fight back (and attack) on their own (when this does not work out collectively).
      Honestly, I never understood how the AUG will exist in a real battle with the partial defeat of escort ships or (and) the inability to use an air wing - I have the impression that AUG can exist only in conditions of complete suppression of the enemy. (Of course, some losses AUG will transfer)
  7. viruvalge412ee
    +2
    6 December 2014 08: 33
    The article is interesting, but false. Money bl is necessary !!!
    Initially, the idea, as in schizophrenics, is right-end is defective.
    But, no, you can’t wander, for the most striking objects are marine. Less affected - underwater. Actually, the Soviet tactics were absolutely correct in the absence of the presence of aircraft carriers. Why correct, because these bastards have distributed the world without poison. Weapons for war, which is available now. Spanked insane air-borne mattresses and more !? However, SchA, the war is different and with different accents. Then, even under Khrushchev (with all due respect to the merits) they correctly crafted the USSR’s position to craft the killers of EVERYTHING that is possible! And, a plaque-fly, they crafted. Taperecha-all-it remains only to modify !!! Mattresses, with their airways, still coexist and threaten, but these are convulsions with attempts to inflict or transfer something to the place where there is water. Soon there will be no water! That’s the most important thing! Damned Russians will take away the water !!!
    1. +7
      6 December 2014 08: 39
      Quote: viruvalge412ee
      The article is interesting, but false.

      I think the article is not false, but rather conceptual. Thinking about fleet development is never harmful.
      Soon there will be no water! That’s what’s most important!
      Explain if not difficult.
  8. +3
    6 December 2014 08: 42
    An article from a series of sky-high dreams.
    Well, nobody is forbidden to dream with us.
  9. viruvalge412ee
    -4
    6 December 2014 08: 51
    No need for verbiage, need to cut!
  10. +8
    6 December 2014 09: 02
    At the beginning, I thought that the author Koptsov
  11. +6
    6 December 2014 09: 51
    This raises several questions and answers.
    The first is whether such a ship is needed. If, as for the United States, then yes, it is necessary, it is the United States that will solve the non-nuclear strike on the Armed Forces and the structure of different countries of the world, and in the future, apparently, they will do so, meaning something is necessary for them. Although they have a lot of carriers. Russia does not have such a need.
    The second is cost. The development, construction, and not only of the ship, but of equipment and weapons is huge money. And such a ship requires the creation of a full-fledged squadron for its escort, support, and generally it makes no sense to make it in one copy. In general, either the United States or China can afford to allocate such an amount of money, but only the USA can create it if they really need it.
    Conclusion - for Russia it is not needed / excessively expensive. Of course, the task of suppressing the ACG must be solved, if only to make the enemy afraid, but hardly anyone doubts that the United States is actually at war with Russia. The output may be a qualitative leap / breakthrough.
  12. +17
    6 December 2014 09: 58
    A coordinated volley from submarines is not a trick, but a matter of planning. The author clearly exaggerates the real effectiveness of object, ship, and anti-ballistic missile defense. Moreover, he writes about the consequences of undermining one warhead with nuclear warheads - but at the same time, the ballistic missile warheads are designed for close nuclear explosions, have an inertial guidance system - but the air defense system of the object will deafen and go blind.
    Submarines need to be built, nuclear, diesel, non-volatile - a lot. And at the right time to lock up the mattress on the continent - you can’t carry much through the air. Striped ears are afraid of such a prospect.
    1. 0
      6 December 2014 15: 57
      Thank you! I was just trying to formulate something like that, but I came across your comment ... 100%! drinks
  13. +6
    6 December 2014 10: 21
    It is fundamentally impossible for rockets in nuclear equipment to create a volley with a high density, since undermining the warhead of such an anti-ship missile system shot down by an air defense system will destroy all others within a radius of several kilometers, the electromagnetic pulse will damage the electronics even at great distances, and the remaining ionized cloud will last time will impede the operation of the homing missiles.

    , A nuclear missile warhead WILL NOT EXPLODE even with a direct projectile hit. A nuclear warhead is NOT ABLE to detonate by itself from hitting bodies with high energy.
    So - everything is possible - even a volley of 30 missiles with a nuclear warhead. If it will be worth it.
    1. +5
      6 December 2014 16: 20
      It is a true objection.
      The people, it seems, often know physics poorly. Forget that you need a nuclear explosion to bring together parts of the charge to obtain a critical mass, whereas when the warhead is destroyed, the charge will fall into pieces. Uranium and plutonium - not TNT with RDX, don't detonate!
      In addition, the power of a nuclear charge, even the weakest, is so great that 1) it doesn’t need to be hit accurately, especially at sea, where there are no mountains and a water hammer will strike for many miles in and out, 2) for delivering the same amount of ordinary explosives fleet cruise missiles may not be enough ... Well, for example: freelance a tactical warhead has a yield of about 20 kilotons (in TNT equivalent, note!), and a "tomogavk" missile has a warhead (and not a mass of explosives, note!) 300-450 kg (700-1000 pounds), a "harpoon" - and even less , 225 kg (500 pounds) of which no more than 50% - explosives => 20Kt = a salvo of 100 thousand "tomogavks" or 200 thousand "harpoons" ... By the way, the nuclear version of the "tomogavka" has a capacity of 150-200 Kt => 1 million missiles with conventional explosives ... They are not fools in the United States, they are also able to count themselves quite well, they understand that a salvo of 1000 cruise missiles from theirs in the Russian Federation => nuclear war. And there, even the total salvo of all non-nuclear forces of all the fleets and armies of the world will not be enough to counterbalance this atomic hurricane ...
      Hence the conclusion: People! Do not do nonsense! There are tactical and strategic tasks! A wheelbarrow is not used instead of a mining truck - too inefficient! No one will make a volley of one and a half million cruise anti-ship missiles!
  14. Crang
    0
    6 December 2014 11: 13
    The author, only it is necessary to build not rocket-artillery dreadnought, but more numerous but very powerful rocket-artillery battleships. In the end, even now, the basis of the fleet’s striking power is not giant cruisers, but MRCs, corvettes and frigates.
    1. +3
      6 December 2014 16: 25
      I remember that something like that in the 90s Pereslegin wrote. I think that in the USA this was also long understood and calculated, so they took the Missouri project battleships and put a pile of KR on them, without removing the main 16-inch caliber, which is very good for delivering non-point hits ...
  15. +6
    6 December 2014 11: 33
    Arsenal ships have been developed for a long time in various fleets of the world, but are in no hurry with their construction. maybe not so simple?
    1. +4
      6 December 2014 16: 27
      That's how much explosives and in one place! fellow Here, even one zombie cybernetic saboteur rat with a standard thicket sword is enough for fireworks! angry good
  16. korjik
    +11
    6 December 2014 11: 37
    The Crimean peninsula is an unsinkable, frenziedly armed battleship. The Black Sea is under its full control.
    Kaliningrad - Baltic Sea, Europe.
    Vladivostok - Sakhalin, Japan, China, the Pacific Ocean.
    - The same fortress in the north and they all go in the woods. Nehren chase rats across the seas. Rat traps need to be prepared. am
    1. +6
      6 December 2014 12: 38
      Quote: korjik
      - The same fortress in the north and they all go in the woods.

      Severomorsk, Polar SF. Incidentally, the most combat-ready in Russia. And yes they all go through the forest, field, etc.
      1. +1
        6 December 2014 16: 36
        crooked mountain trails, unsteady coastal estuaries, deceiving swampy peat bogs, loose sand dunes ...
        In short, people are offering the elephant to fight with a whale, swimming in the sea ... Or a bear to compete with an otter - who swims faster ... Or a snake - with a monkey - who more accurately will throw a coconut ... Cool! wassat
        Therefore, even during the USSR, the Navy had torpedo and missile boats capable of thoroughly thinning the ranks of the carrier group and banging the carrier in only 2-3 hits, but in the coastal zone. Since tactical ammunition then had a range of not more than 500 km, and in a nuclear war - a completely different scenario ...
    2. 0
      6 December 2014 16: 29
      Right! And rock the rock to completely eliminate the buried half a mile away fellow the inner contents are much harder than the water depths!
  17. +6
    6 December 2014 11: 55
    In principle, I think the idea is good, but there was no point in booking it but there was an article "explosion on armor" and as an alternative to aircraft carriers, I think it makes sense. After all, what is an aircraft carrier for? It is correct that the aircraft could deliver its load and the load is tons of TNT, so why not replace 50 aircraft with bombs on an aircraft carrier, say, with a thousand missiles?
    The effectiveness of aircraft against advanced air defense will be all exactly low why lose pilots and expensive aircraft if cruise missiles are tens of times cheaper.
  18. +6
    6 December 2014 12: 00
    The author rolls over ... infinite displacement and 100500 rockets ...
    Stupidity of course. The loss of one such ship due to the banal breakdown of the power plant puts an end to the entire operation. Setting it up for repair automatically deprives the fleet of striking power. For many such ships without the threat of leaving the country without pants can not be built.
    1. +2
      6 December 2014 16: 42
      In my opinion, a very true remark! I say something like that above.
  19. +5
    6 December 2014 12: 24
    The article is interesting, it makes you look at the issue from a different perspective. However, the conclusion is far from unambiguous. Building new dreadnoughts is very burdensome for the budget and controversial in terms of doctrine.
  20. +1
    6 December 2014 12: 48
    Strange article.

    The capabilities of an anti-aircraft missile system (SAM) of only one such ship (such as "Ticonderoga" or "Orly Burke"), even for low-flying small-sized anti-ship cruise missiles (RCC), are estimated for a single firing cycle from three to four to seven to eight missiles, depending on the trajectory and speed. The aircraft carrier group (led by one aircraft carrier) of such ships can be from three to five to seven units. Given the participation rate, they will be able to destroy from 12 – 20 to 25 – 30 missiles per firing cycle, that is, in less than 20 – 30 seconds.

    From this it is concluded that 256 (!!! ... and what is not immediately 100500 ??) should be concentrated on one (!!!) ship.

    That is - "all eggs in one basket", yes .. Wise, what to say)

    The ship must have a sufficiently powerful reservation and other effective elements of constructive defense and fight for survivability in order to withstand hits of at least four to five anti-ship missiles with the warhead of 350 – 500 kilograms without loss of combat effectiveness, and also retain the ability to return to base with the defeat of 10 – 12 such rockets.

    Mdya .. and the fact that the RCC can fly from a special warhead is not considered?

    Interestingly, it seemed to me alone that the article was nonsense, or not?
    1. 0
      6 December 2014 14: 38
      Not one, also about the warhead difficult I immediately thought!
    2. +4
      6 December 2014 16: 50
      Not that the golem is nonsense, but there are a lot of stretches. Firstly, for example, the experience of recent wars has shown that, due to the significant flimsy design of modern warships, even one of the smallest anti-ship missiles, even without a subsequent explosion of a warhead, suffices to sink a destroyer or cruiser. Details - fighting near the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) and the Persian Gulf. Secondly, the presented effectiveness of anti-aircraft missiles against anti-ship missiles, again, does not correspond to the realities of the wars of recent years, but to advertisements of manufacturers. Yes, and the calculations, I think, relate to the CR with a subsonic flight speed ... There is much more that can be objected ...
  21. +2
    6 December 2014 12: 59
    another utopia, you need a balanced fleet under the cover of which submarine missile carriers will operate.
  22. +7
    6 December 2014 13: 53
    The German emperor Wilhelm II considered himself an expert in many matters, sometimes very distant from the affairs of public administration. Once he turned to the Italian naval minister, the famous shipbuilder Admiral Brin, with a request to give an opinion on the design of the ship, which he personally developed, the Kaiser.

    “This project,” said William, “is the fruit of my many years of research, long thought, and careful, hard work ...”

    A few weeks later, Brin sent his feedback.

    “The ship that Your Majesty is going to build will be the most powerful, formidable and beautiful ship that has ever existed on earth. He will develop unprecedented speed, his weapons will be the strongest in the world, his masts will be the highest, and the guns the most long-range. Beautiful interior decoration will bring real pleasure to the whole team, from commander to youth. This magnificent ship has only one drawback: as soon as it is launched into the water, it will sink to the bottom like a lead duck. ”
  23. 0
    6 December 2014 14: 14
    Question to the author: where should we swim in order to deliver such massive strikes? This is the US world gendarme and is climbing everywhere. So, should we, too?
    Not minus, but the article is nowhere.
  24. 0
    6 December 2014 14: 18
    The ship of the type described should be specialized, like an aircraft carrier, to go in the warrant.
    There is no escaping costs, defense is expensive. It would be better to complain about the stupidly swollen money in the Olympics and the mundeal.
  25. abundant
    0
    6 December 2014 14: 32
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    Mdya .. and the fact that the RCC can fly from a special warhead is not considered?

    but if this happens, it does not matter whose ships will sink whom, there will begin a big batch with the use of ICBMs, and everyone will lose "read will die".
  26. BIG
    +2
    6 December 2014 14: 37
    The author offers the concept of an attack ship. It is possible and necessary to argue about the details, but the principle itself - the formation of the connection around the strike ship is correct. Otherwise, why build a squadron around? The squadron needs a flagship. Not such a giant displacement and not with such grandiose weapons, but unbalanced, namely, an attack ship with the corresponding capabilities for control, communications, etc. should be.
    The tasks of the ocean fleet without the presence of striking power cannot be solved.

    Pe.Se.Appointment of the strike ship - naval battle. The issue of striking along the coast is completely solved by submarine missile carriers. And there is no need to measure missiles with adversaries, an asymmetric answer is enough: one hundred non-nuclear missiles - one nuclear.
  27. 0
    6 December 2014 16: 50
    Just started to read, and immediately flashed the thought that this was written by rear-admiral Sivkov. All articles, like the songs of Stas Mikhailov. The words are different, but the motive is the same.
  28. 0
    6 December 2014 17: 22
    The idea is reminiscent of Lockheed AC-130 class high-elf planes - a heavily armed support aircraft for ground units is the very thing to drive Aboriginal people, but do not forget that the aborigines can also have MANPADS or small torpedo boats
  29. +2
    6 December 2014 17: 49
    The idea of ​​ships - arsenals is not new. I remember articles in the journal Tech-Youth in the 70s. The cost of such a ship, I think, will be enormous. And it is desirable to have not one or two such ships. Pacific Ocean, Atlantic, North Seas, Indian Ocean. To protect them, whole squadrons are needed. Is it worth it to keep all the rockets in one place. Behind a floating missile base and hunting will be conducted correspondingly. It is proposed to carry all the eggs in one basket?
    1. +1
      6 December 2014 18: 48
      The best "arsenal" is the SSBN converted for the KR.
  30. 0
    6 December 2014 20: 32
    > The displacement of such a ship, according to rough estimates, can be from 35 to 45 thousand tons.

    I just know three ships of close displacement ... which are intended for cutting

    These air defense ships will definitely not be needed
  31. +2
    6 December 2014 20: 41
    The striving for universalism will not lead to anything good, since the one who knows how to do everything does not know how to do anything. The talk that the modern AUG is currently capable of effectively resisting an attack of 10-20 anti-ship missiles comes exclusively from the “users” of the AUG themselves and cannot be anything other than a bluff. I would see how such a compound will cope with a flock of "Onyxes" flying up in supersonic, above the water surface.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. 0
    6 December 2014 21: 18
    The striving for universalism will not lead to anything good, since the one who knows how to do everything does not know how to do anything. The talks that the modern AUG is capable of effectively resisting any kind of attack, including the attack of 10-20 anti-ship missiles, are conducted exclusively by the "users" of the AUG themselves and are not confirmed by anything other than conversations, from which we can conclude that this is a pure bluff. I would see how such a compound would fight off a flock of "Onyxes" flying up in supersonic sound at a height of 10-15 m above the water level. Taking into account the directions of modern and promising means of defense and attack, the concept of "whoever saw and fired first won," and not an armored "giant hedgehog" studded with hundreds of missile needles, comes to the fore.
  34. 0
    6 December 2014 21: 49
    No, gigantomania does not lead to good.
  35. 0
    6 December 2014 21: 49
    No, gigantomania does not lead to good.
  36. 0
    6 December 2014 21: 57
    It seems to me that the bet on increasing the displacement of the ship, in order to install as many weapons on it as possible is a utopia. The experience of the last two warriors shows that nothing good comes of it. Of course, the mosquito fleet is also quite controversial, but why throw it into Why, without racking your brains, rivet a 200 thousand-ton ship, and stupidly shove everything that your imagination tells you, without caring about the actual efficiency and profitability of such a ship, if you can think about reducing the dimensions of the weapon itself, as well as the effectiveness of this very weapon? At the same time, even by reducing the tonnage of the vessel without harm to its firepower and defense capability. And why should there be one lead ship in the squadron? Why can't there be two or three? Let's say the destroyers of the "leader" project. Ships up to 20 thousand tons, but with this firepower is not inferior to the "eagles", or even surpasses. Or, for example, a new heavy cruiser, which in size will either be the same as the "Petka", or smaller? But in general, I think so thatthe battleships are gone, the dreadnoughts and battleships are gone, and the time is slowly approaching when there will be no place for heavy cruisers in the new realities of combat doctrine.
    1. +1
      6 December 2014 23: 40
      Container ships and tankers are heaps, and the geography is wide. wink
  37. rol66
    0
    6 December 2014 22: 14
    The article is interesting. Probably there is a future for such ships. Pkr is already at the limit and hypersound is still in no way. Air defense so far goes into the gap. So it’s not so simple. And money compared with ambitions for the states ... garbage.
  38. +2
    6 December 2014 23: 38
    but in principle, I’ve thought about taking a container ship, loading a club to
  39. +1
    7 December 2014 00: 03
    Quote: Vedroid 5.0
    There is Cuba, why ship?

    It is not a subject of the Russian Federation. lol
  40. 0
    8 December 2014 06: 46
    On VO there is a similar article - a project of a missile cruiser 1080 from 1970. The idea is already outdated, but plus the author for the search. It is probably better to have 3-4 ships with one control system, then the simultaneous launch of hundreds of missiles from different angles is possible. We must wait for the serial destroyers, and then we'll see. And so it turns out "what only these Russians will not do, just not to build an aircraft carrier."
  41. 0
    8 December 2014 13: 48
    To deal with the AUG you need a lot of submarines with modern torpedoes and autonomous vehicles. It is even better to create fully automated small submarines without a crew with purely torpedo weapons. They must launch super modern torpedoes from a great depth of up to 1000 meters and destroy augs. These submarines will be operated from large inhabited submarines at a safe distance and depth from the aug. A flock of three or four such vehicles can be used to fight aug at ocean ranges.
    1. Andy1111
      0
      9 December 2014 11: 47
      Quote: arslan23
      It is even better to create fully automated small submarines without a crew with purely torpedo weapons. They must launch super modern torpedoes from a great depth of up to 1000 meters and destroy augs.


      This will not be possible for another eleven years. Such a submarine must have artificial intelligence at the human level, because it will have to make decisions on its own
      Or are you going to run it by wire? )))))
    2. Andy1111
      0
      9 December 2014 11: 47
      Quote: arslan23
      It is even better to create fully automated small submarines without a crew with purely torpedo weapons. They must launch super modern torpedoes from a great depth of up to 1000 meters and destroy augs.


      This will not be possible for another eleven years. Such a submarine must have artificial intelligence at the human level, because it will have to make decisions on its own
      Or are you going to run it by wire? )))))
  42. Andy1111
    0
    9 December 2014 11: 43
    The information is interesting in the article, but the conclusions are completely incorrect .. the author suggests thinking about some kind of super dreadnought of the future - an armored monster, with a very formal air defense stuffed with anti-ship missiles.
    But why? Why armor, why air defense, why tens of thousands of tons of excess steel and an atomic propulsion system (making such a fool with the traditional one is nonsense) if all the same can be made cheaper and most importantly a more protected ship ... what? .. well, we strain we meanders. right .. sub. what the hell is all this about? Missing you cruise missiles to work on ground targets and surface ships of the enemy - here's a converted Ohio.

    By the way, I’m surprised why we don’t think about such re-equipment of the Sharks (they are Typhoons) .. there the mines are simply huge in size - a container for 4 Caliber will enter into a box ..
  43. Andy1111
    0
    9 December 2014 11: 49
    Or, on the basis of the Boreev A hull (with 20 mines), one can develop a variant with cruise missiles and launch a couple of three boats in it. Such submarines would be very useful - proved by operations in the Persian Gulf.
  44. 0
    11 January 2015 18: 52
    We have such ships. And ov. The thought is not new.
    They have
    http://www.warships.ru/usa/Surface_Ships/Cruiser/Cruisers.html
    We
    http://www.warships.ru/Russia/Fighting_Ships/RKR/index.htm