Hybrid electric and fuel cells

32

The EMILY 3000 fuel cell system has a rated output power of 125 W and a daily charge capacity of 6 kWh. It can recharge several batteries or act as a field generator. The system was created specifically for military applications, including test scenarios in which data on new defensive systems need to be collected and evaluated in the field

Ultimately, hybrid power plants offer comparable or even better benefits to armored vehicles. While fuel efficiency, at least historically, has not been at the top of the list of mandatory characteristics of armored vehicles, it does, nevertheless, increase mileage and / or operation time for a given fuel capacity, increase payload, protection or firepower for a given overall. masses and generally reduce the overall logistic load on the fleet.

The hybrid electric drive may play an important role in the future of military vehicles, but the corresponding cancellation and reduction of many defense programs (not to forget about the famous FCS and FRES) and the struggle to meet the urgent requirements for protected vehicles delayed its introduction on military vehicles for an indefinite period.

However, when applicants for the US ground combat vehicle GCV (Ground Combat Vehicle) were announced in January 2011, among them was a project from the BAE Systems / Northrop Grumman team with a hybrid electric power unit with an EX-DRIVE system from Qinetiq. This can be considered as a kind of gamble because none of the applicants for the program on the lightweight tactical vehicle JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicle), which provided for a hybrid electric drive, did not qualify for the final due to the fact that believe that the technology for this machine is not yet mature enough at this point in time. Those not least story hybrid electric drives in ground combat vehicles has a sufficient number of programs to develop and demonstrate this technology. There is something inexorable and inevitable in the global desire to introduce technology that promises to save fuel, improve performance and survivability, and at the same time meet the growing needs for onboard electricity. This is undoubtedly supported by parallel developments in the automotive industry, prompted by environmental legislation.

War machine manufacturers and system suppliers have invested heavily in this technology, often pushed by a sort of aforementioned ambitious government programs, before facing the particular uncertainty inherent in long-term government plans. AM General, BAE Systems, General Dynamics, Hagglunds, MillenWorks and Qinetiq have developed hybrid drives for British, American and Swedish programs, while Nexter is working on an ARCHYBALD technology development program for heavy vehicles, civilian and military.

Hybrid electric and fuel cells

EX-DRIVE electric drive transmission for QinetiQ tracked vehicles, lightweight, compact and efficient system

Hybrid predecessors

Hybrid power plants firmly settled in warships, especially on submarines, trains, and heavy trucks used in open pit and open pit mining. In these applications, a prime mover, such as a diesel engine, a gas turbine, or even both systems, drives a generator that generates current for drive engines and battery charging. Some systems include a gearbox for transmitting mechanical energy to final drives, while in others they are completely excluded.

In warships, hybrid power plants allow the use of complex and widely varying speed profiles, while the primary propulsion systems are operated in the effective speed range: electric motors for silent movement, diesel engines for ordinary movement, gas turbines for acceleration, etc. A submarine operated in the traditional way cannot launch its primary propulsion unit during a dive (if it does not have a snorkel) and, therefore, it is necessary to rely mainly on batteries or another air-independent power plant. Giant earthmoving machines rely on huge torque from zero rpm generated by electric motors due to the fact that manual gearboxes that could do this kind of work will be huge, complex and expensive. Trains are facing the same problem even more, as they have to pull several hundred tons behind them, in many cases to speeds exceeding 150 miles per hour.

A hybrid power plant can save fuel, allowing you to use a smaller, more economical prime mover without degrading the performance, because the system, when the driver completely depresses the gas pedal, complements the main engine with electric motors powered by batteries. Electric drives also make it possible to damp the prime mover when driving at low speeds, when it may be relatively inefficient. Modern hybrid cars can also accumulate kinetic energy (for example, through a regenerative braking system) and use it to charge their batteries. Additional savings are achieved by operating the primary propulsion most of the time in the most efficient speed range, as well as using any additional energy to charge the batteries and / or power the on-board power consumers.

Modern military vehicles require more and more electrical power to operate communication systems, command and control equipment, surveillance and reconnaissance sensors, such as optoelectronics and radars, remotely-controlled combat modules and mufflers of improvised explosive devices (SVU). Prospective systems, such as electric armor, will further increase consumption. The use of all installed capacity for the operation of electrical systems, in theory, is at least more efficient than having one system for movement and one more for specialized equipment.

Increasing emphasis is being placed on the possibility of observing and collecting information in counterinsurgency tasks, and in this connection, requirements for silent observation are being put forward in an increasing number of armored vehicle programs. This further increases the importance of consumed electrical power and makes fuel cells more attractive.

Hybrid electric drive systems fall into two broad categories: parallel and sequential. In parallel systems, the internal combustion engine and the electric motor (or electric motors) rotate the wheels or tracks through the gearbox, either separately or together. In successive hybrid systems, the prime mover drives only the generator. The sequential system is simpler, all the driving power in it must go through the electric motors and therefore they must be larger than the electric motors in the parallel system with the same requirements for the operating characteristics of the machine. Both types of systems have been developed.



Innovations in hybrid-electric drives and in the field of fuel cells can be taken from commercial technologies. For example, BAE Systems manufactures hybrid electric buses, technologies from which can be used to demonstrate energy efficiency and improved exhaust emissions characteristics of modern hybrid electric vehicles.

Increase vitality

Hybrid systems also increase survivability due to a more flexible layout and the exclusion of transmission components, which could become a side projectile when undermining a mine or IED. Wheeled armored vehicles especially benefit from this. When integrating drive motors into wheel hubs, all drive shafts, differentials, drive shafts and gearboxes associated with traditional mechanical transmissions are eliminated and replaced by power cables and therefore they cannot become additional projectiles. The exclusion of all these mechanisms also makes it possible to raise the crew compartment above the ground at a given vehicle height, which makes passengers less vulnerable during blasting under the hull. This type of design was used in the General Dynamics UK AHED 8x8 demonstrator and the wheeled version of the SEE vehicle from BAE Systems / Hagglunds, the crawler version of which was also manufactured (and subsequently safely forgotten).

Electric motors built into individual wheels allow you to control the power delivered to each wheel very precisely, and this, according to GD UK, almost eliminates the advantages of tracks over wheels with respect to increased off-road terrain.

A prospective ground combat vehicle will move on tracks and in the BAE Systems / Northrop Grumman proposal, it is indicated that Qinetiq's EX-DRIVE electric transmission will be lighter, more compact and more efficient than traditional transmissions. It also allows for improved acceleration along with fault tolerance and is configured for a wide range of machines and technology deployment programs, the company says.

Although the system includes four permanent magnet engines, the powertrain in the EX-DRIVE is not fully electric; power recovery during cornering and mechanical gear shift, the latter using a cam clutch. This scheme is a low-risk solution that minimizes loads in engines, gears, shafts and bearings. The use of a transverse shaft circuit for the regeneration of mechanical power in a steering mechanism is an alternative to using independent drive wheels in a purely electric transmission.

One of the innovations in the heart of the EX-DRIVE is the central gearbox (known as the adjusting differential), which combines the torque of the steering engine, the torque of the main engine and the previously mentioned mechanical recovery mechanism. In addition to minimizing torque loads, it eliminates the bulkiness and weight of the outer transverse shaft used in traditional solutions and other hybrid electric drive systems.

Successes in electrics

Permanent magnet electric motors are a technology industry where, in recent years, the efficiency and power density of electric drive systems have been significantly increased in all applications. Permanent magnet motors for creating magnetic fields in stator components are based on naturally occurring powerful magnets made of rare earth metals, and not on the current-carrying windings (electromagnets). This makes the engines more efficient in particular due to the fact that only the rotor must be supplied with electric current.

Modern power electronics is also a key technology for all types of hybrid electric machines. Electric motor controllers based on an insulated gate bipolar transistor, for example, regulate the flow of energy from a battery, a generator, or fuel cells to determine rotational speeds and output torque from an electric motor. They are much more efficient than electromechanical control systems and significantly increase the characteristics of electric drives with adjustable rotational speed — technologies that are much less mature than electric drives with fixed speed, which are widely used in industry.

The New Jersey company TDI Power is an example of an investor investing in liquid cooling power electronics for electric and hybrid vehicles for civilian and military use. The company manufactures standard modular DC converters and inverters that exceed current SAE and MIL standards.

Electric drives in military machines benefit from extensive research and development on variable speed drives for industry, spurred by the prospect of overall energy savings around 15-30%, which can be realized if machines with fixed gears are replaced by variable speed drives for most industrial users, like set out in a recent study by the University of Newcastle commissioned by the British Department of Science and Innovation. "Increasing the potential efficiency of the loads on the drives, as planned, will save the UK 15 kW of billion hours per year, and in combination with the increased efficiency of the engine and its drive, the total savings amount to 24 billion kWh," the study says.

One of the important ways to increase the efficiency of power transmission in any electrical system is to increase the voltage, since Ohm's law dictates that for any given power, the higher the voltage, the lower the current. Small currents can pass through thin wires, which will allow compact lightweight electrical systems to provide the necessary load. That is why very high voltages are used in power transmission systems in national power systems; British power systems, for example, operate their power lines at voltages up to 400 000 volts.

It is unlikely that voltage will be used in electrical systems of military machines, but the days of 28 volts and similar electrical systems are likely to be numbered. In the 2009 year, for example, the British Ministry of Defense chose Qinetiq for research on the generation and distribution of electrical power using 610 volt technology. Qinetiq led the team, which included BAE Systems and the electric machinery specialist Provector Ltd, which converted the WARRIOR 2000 BMP into a demonstrator capable of powering consumers with high 610 volts as well as existing 28 volt equipment. The machine is equipped with two 610 volt generators, each of which provides twice as much energy as the original machine generator, which actually increases the Warrior's electrical output fourfold.

Energy for a vehicle using fuel cells from SFC



Soldiers in the field need a reliable source of energy for their vehicles. It must supply current to onboard devices such as a radio station, communications equipment, weapon systems and optical electronic systems. But if necessary, it should also work as a charging station for soldiers on mission.

Often there is no possibility when the task is executed to start the engine to charge the batteries due to the fact that it may reveal the location of the unit. Therefore, soldiers need a way to obtain electric current - quietly, constantly and independently.

The SFC's EMILY 2200 system is based on the successful EFOY fuel cell technology. Installed on the machine, the EMILY unit ensures that the batteries remain constantly charged. Its built-in regulator constantly monitors the voltage in the batteries and automatically recharges the batteries if necessary. It works silently and its only "exhaust" are water vapor and carbon dioxide in an amount comparable to the child's breath.


Large machines need large batteries. This package of lithium-ion cells is part of the hybrid propulsion technology for BAE Systems buses.

Are fuel cells possible?

Fuel cells that use chemical processes for direct conversion of fuel into electric current with high efficiency have long been considered as a technology that can be widely used in the military sphere, including setting the machine in motion and generating electricity on board. However, there are significant technical obstacles that need to be overcome. First, fuel cells work on hydrogen and mix it with oxygen from air to produce electrical current as a by-product. Hydrogen is not readily available, it is difficult to store and transport.

There are many examples of fuel cells that drive electric vehicles, but they are all experimental. In the automotive world, Honda’s FCX CLARITY is probably the closest to a commercial product when it’s ready, but it is also available only in areas where there is a certain infrastructure for refueling with hydrogen and only under leasing agreements. Even leading fuel cell manufacturers, such as Ballard Power, recognize the current limitations of this technology for use in automobiles. The company says that “mass production of fuel cell vehicles is in the long term. Today, most automakers believe that the organization of mass production of fuel cell vehicles is not feasible until about the 2020 year, due to the fact that the industry is facing the issues of hydrogen distribution, optimization of durability, energy density, the possibility of starting without heating and the cost of fuel cells. ”

However, all the world's major automakers are investing heavily in fuel cell research and development, often conducted jointly with fuel cell manufacturers. Ballard, for example, is part of Automotive Fuel Cell Cooperation, a joint venture of Ford and Daimler AG. The military pose another obstacle to the adoption of fuel cells in the form of their demand that everything should work on "logistics" fuels. Fuel cells can run on diesel or kerosene, but they must first be modified to extract the hydrogen they need. This process requires complex and cumbersome equipment, affecting the size, mass, cost, complexity and efficiency of the system as a whole.

Another limitation of fuel cells when operating as the primary engine of a military vehicle is the fact that they work best with constant power settings and cannot respond quickly to necessary changes. This means that they must be supplemented with batteries and / or supercapacitors and appropriate power control electronics to meet peak power loads.

In the area of ​​“supercapacitors”, the Estonian company Skeleton Industries has developed a range of modern SkelCap supercapacitors, which are five times more powerful per liter of volume or more than four times more powerful per kilogram compared to first-class military batteries. In practice, this means a 60 percent increase in power and four times more current compared to the best military batteries. SkelCap “supercapacitors” provide an instantaneous power boost and are used for a wide variety of tasks, from fire control to turret towers tanks. As part of the United Armaments International (UAI) group, SkelCap carries out various specialized orders as well as advanced programs through the UAI group, based in Tallinn.


Supercapacitors from Skeleton Industries

However, this does not mean that fuel cells will not find a place in hybrid and electric military vehicles. The most promising closest applications are auxiliary power units (VSU) in machines performing tasks of silent observation of the ISTAR type (information gathering, target targeting observation and reconnaissance). “In silent monitoring mode, the engines of the machines should not work, and the batteries alone cannot provide enough energy for long-term operations,” say the American Army Engineering Research Center, which heads the development of solid oxide fuel cell generators and APUs that can work on military fuels, diesel and kerosene.

This organization is currently focused on systems up to 10 kW with an emphasis on the full integration of fuel systems with the operating needs of a fuel cell kit. Tasks that need to be addressed in the development of practical systems include the control of vaporization and pollution, especially the struggle with sulfur due to desulfurization (desulfurization) and the use of sulfur-resistant materials, as well as the elimination of carbon deposits in the system.

Hybrid electric drives have a lot to offer for military vehicles, but it will take some time before the benefits of this technology become tangible.

Materials used:
www.armada.ch
www.baesystems.com
www.qinetiq.com
www.sfc.com
www.skeletontech.com
32 comments
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  1. 0
    3 December 2014 07: 10
    "... It runs silently and its only 'exhaust' is water vapor and carbon dioxide."
    reforming however
  2. +1
    3 December 2014 09: 38
    Hybrid SUs have a near future, more distant from the batteries, and then they are followed by fuel cells.
    A couple of years ago, at one bourgeois exhibition, I saw fuel cells working on alcohol. According to a company representative, one charge (filling) is enough for a week of laptop work. He also cited "unrealistic" figures on how many tens of thousands of dollars only one platoon consumes batteries in Afghanistan.
    1. +4
      3 December 2014 10: 23
      great article good ...thanks
      Quote: professor
      working on alcohol.

      we have welding machines, work on water H2O ...
      and hybrid engines have long been used in mining equipment and diesel locomotives (((though instead of lithium, there are alkaline batteries, which is also good)))
      in Russia you need an agency for the development and implementation of the latest technologies, an analogue of the American DARPA ....
      inventions of the sea, but they do not reach the stage of industrial production ...

      hydrolysis welding machine
      (the principle of operation of hydrolysis welding machines is based on the chemical reaction of the decomposition of water into its constituent gases under the influence of electric current)))
      1. -3
        3 December 2014 12: 21
        Quote: cosmos111
        we have welding machines, work on water H2O ...

        "And we have gas in our apartment" ...
        "There is an elderberry in the garden, and in Kiev ... banderlog"

        What else to rave about?
      2. +2
        5 December 2014 14: 39
        we have welding machines, work on water H2O ...

        H20 here is a working body. And the apparatus you are looking for "works" on electricity.
        Nice thing, by the way, is a compact plasmatron for welding / cutting. Very comfortable.
  3. +1
    3 December 2014 10: 32
    It’s bad that again no numbers. Fuel quality, efficiency, resource of the installation itself ...
    1. +2
      3 December 2014 11: 22
      Quote: brn521
      Fuel quality, efficiency, resource of the installation itself ...


      the amount of fuel (consumption) is reduced by 25-30% ...
      reduced noise, thermal imaging visibility of the BBM, increases the volume M³ of the combat compartment, improved mine protection, the flat floor in the combat compartment improves the ergonomics of the BBM, etc. ....

      program FCS (Future Combat Systems - future combat systems) of the United States ....

      and ES (Future Rapid Effect System) in the UK ....
      info from: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/4559

      Future Combat Systems (FCS-T)
  4. +2
    3 December 2014 11: 54
    So, the task: to ensure the inconspicuous recharging of the battery and the operation of reconnaissance vehicle equipment.

    -Purchase of expensive fuel cells.
    -Creation of infrastructure for the production of hydrogen in the field and its delivery to units.
    -Creation and supply of devices for the safe storage of hydrogen
    -Creation of devices providing thermal stealth power plants.

    Doesn't it seem to anyone that for one thousandth of the money spent on these events, you can create an electric generator based on the internal combustion engine with an acceptable noise level for these tasks?

    It looks like a cut laughing
    1. 0
      3 December 2014 12: 06
      Quote: Spade
      It looks like a cut

      1. Fuel cells work not only on hydrogen.
      2. Fuel cells are already installed in non-nuclear submarines and cope with their work in Ur.
      3. Gasoline is also not a gift in terms of safety.
      4. Value for money is everything.
      1. +2
        3 December 2014 12: 25
        Quote: professor
        Quote: Spade
        It looks like a cut

        1. Fuel cells work not only on hydrogen.
        2. Fuel cells are already installed in non-nuclear submarines and cope with their work in Ur.
        3. Gasoline is also not a gift in terms of safety.
        4. Value for money is everything.


        1. They work only on hydrogen, the question is where the hydrogen comes from.
        2. A third of the volume of the boat is an element and refueling. And all the same autonomy for about two weeks.
        3. A gift compared to hydrogen. At least it has a smell.
        4. Decides, while not in favor of TE. Only the state can afford to have such power sources. Service life is limited. The cost is very, very high. Again, the technology and materials are expensive ... all platinum with iridium is not enough.

        So it looks more like a rospil.
        1. -3
          3 December 2014 12: 34
          Quote: Geisenberg
          1. They work only on hydrogen, the question is where the hydrogen comes from.
          2. A third of the volume of the boat is an element and refueling. And all the same autonomy for about two weeks.
          3. A gift compared to hydrogen. At least it has a smell.
          4. Decides, while not in favor of TE. Only the state can afford to have such power sources. Service life is limited. The cost is very, very high. Again, the technology and materials are expensive ... all platinum with iridium is not enough.

          So it looks more like a rospil.

          1. No, not only on hydrogen. For example, DEFCs run on ethanol.
          2. Non-nuclear submarine Type 214, autonomy 84 days
          3. Hydrogen is dangerous, but gasoline vapors are not harmless.
          4. On anaerobic submarines, the price / efficiency ratio is in favor of these SEUs.
          1. +3
            3 December 2014 12: 58
            Quote: professor
            1. No, not only on hydrogen. For example, DEFCs run on ethanol.


            Man, stop messing up! Learn first materiel.
            1. -1
              3 December 2014 14: 42
              Quote: Geisenberg
              Man, stop messing up! Learn first materiel.

              Dear, you mess up while you. For example "And all the same autonomy is about two weeks."
              Here is the materiel, in Direct-ethanol fuel cell ethanol is used as fuel.
              1. 0
                5 December 2014 14: 43
                But still, the terminal process is energy-generating-proton-exchange
                So both are right :)
      2. +1
        3 December 2014 12: 26
        Quote: professor
        Fuel cells work not only on hydrogen.

        Those working on methanol have an efficiency of only 40% and are also very expensive because of the need to use platinum as a catalyst

        Quote: professor
        Fuel cells are already in non-nuclear submarines and are doing their job in Ur.

        Thanks to very expensive solutions for the safe storage of hydrogen or for the production of hydrogen on board ethanol submarines

        Quote: professor
        Gasoline is also not a gift in terms of safety.

        But diesel is quite safe. The hole should work on the main fuel of the car

        Quote: professor
        Value for money is everything.

        Rather, the possibilities of lobbying firms and the amount of money that a corporation can allocate to pay for their activities.
        1. +2
          3 December 2014 12: 38
          Quote: Spade
          Those working on methanol have an efficiency of only 40% and are also very expensive because of the need to use platinum as a catalyst

          The efficiency of the internal combustion engine is also within 35-38%, and the fuel cells are still in diapers.

          Quote: Spade
          Thanks to very expensive solutions for the safe storage of hydrogen or for the production of hydrogen on board ethanol submarines

          It does not cancel the fact of not cutting, but choosing the right technological solution.

          Quote: Spade
          But diesel is quite safe. The hole should work on the main fuel of the car

          Safe, but not clean and inconspicuous to use (exhaust and heat dissipation)

          Quote: Spade
          Rather, the possibilities of lobbying firms and the amount of money that a corporation can allocate to pay for their activities.

          You can lobby the project in one native military department, but not every client.
          1. +1
            3 December 2014 13: 04
            Quote: professor
            The efficiency of the internal combustion engine is also within 35-38%, and the fuel cells are still in diapers.


            If only I looked into Wikipedia for a start. Stop the snowstorm of revenge ... Stop snitching!
            1. -1
              3 December 2014 14: 45
              Quote: Geisenberg
              If only I looked into Wikipedia for a start. Stop the snowstorm of revenge ... Stop snitching!

              Stop poking and being rude. Teach the materiel, and only then will you indicate to others. stop
              Efficiency of a diesel engine can provide 35-40%, in particular on marine vessels.
          2. +2
            3 December 2014 13: 13
            Quote: professor
            The efficiency of the internal combustion engine is also within 35-38%, and the fuel cells are still in diapers.

            And why is that "in swaddling clothes" and also incredibly expensive in the army?


            Quote: professor
            It does not cancel the fact of not cutting, but choosing the right technological solution.

            Craftiness. You are trying to extend the very specific conditions of non-nuclear submarines to all military equipment. But let me remind you that for the operation of ICE in a submarine, expensive solutions are also needed

            Safe, but not clean and inconspicuous to use (exhaust and heat dissipation)

            Once again, for one thousandth of the money spent on TE, you can create and deliver low-noise ICEs.


            Quote: professor
            You can lobby the project in one native military department, but not every client.

            ?
            1. 0
              3 December 2014 14: 53
              Quote: Spade
              And why is that "in swaddling clothes" and also incredibly expensive in the army?

              All innovations at the beginning of the road. In addition, the diesel engine makes noise, smokes and glows, but no fuel cells. By the way, you can’t put a diesel generator on every notebook, and batteries are also not very cheap.

              Quote: Spade
              Craftiness. You are trying to extend the very specific conditions of non-nuclear submarines to all military equipment. But let me remind you that for the operation of ICE in a submarine, expensive solutions are also needed

              No cunning, but just an example of fuel cells actually adopted for service where the price / efficiency paid off. I’m not going to put them on all military equipment.

              Quote: Spade
              Once again, for one thousandth of the money spent on TE, you can create and deliver low-noise ICEs.

              Silent, but silent and not subtle.

              Quote: Spade
              ?

              You can lobby the project in one native military department, but not every client. For example, Siemens could have lobbied for the purchase of anaerobic SU from the Bundesfer, but Greece, Korea, Turkey, Portugal, Israel, and Pakistan also bought such boats ... Have they all been lobbied?
              1. 0
                3 December 2014 15: 26
                Quote: professor
                All innovations at the beginning of the road. In addition, the diesel engine makes noise, smokes and glows, but no fuel cells. By the way, you can’t put a diesel generator on every notebook, and batteries are also not very cheap.

                Reasonably ... Innovations of the road. And to impose them on a simple consumer is impossible. For example, I have a simple gasoline hole in my country house, and I’m not going to change it to methanol fuel cell.
                What to do? Correctly! They must be imposed on the army, acting through lobbying offices ...
                1. 0
                  3 December 2014 15: 45
                  Quote: Spade
                  Reasonably ... Innovations of the road. And to impose them on a simple consumer is impossible. For example, I have a simple gasoline hole in my country house, and I’m not going to change it to methanol fuel cell.
                  What to do? Correctly! They must be imposed on the army, acting through lobbying offices ...

                  Again. You can impose your army, but not the armies of another 10 countries. In the end, the fighters will throw out these elements if they are bad and take batteries with them. It will be something like with sneakers in Afghanistan ...
                  1. +1
                    3 December 2014 15: 57
                    Quote: professor
                    Again. You can impose your army, but not the armies of another 10 countries.

                    Yeah ... you tell the Kazakhs this. They nobly transplanted their about a contract with an Israeli company


                    Quote: professor
                    In the end, the fighters will throw out these elements if they are bad and take batteries with them.

                    Where will they get it, in the local selmag?
                    1. 0
                      3 December 2014 16: 36
                      Quote: Spade
                      Yeah ... you tell the Kazakhs this. They nobly transplanted their about a contract with an Israeli company

                      We were transplanted in Kazakhstan for other reasons, purely internal. Now, if this company lobbied for its products in 9 more countries, and sold it at a price once in 10 so higher than the alternative, I would agree with you.

                      Quote: Spade
                      Where will they get it, in the local selmag?

                      Buy from local merchants ... wink
                      Solar panels were also once exotic, now in my village it is difficult to find a house in which the whole roof would not be covered with panels. I assure you, as soon as TEs appear that are more effective and cheaper than your buddy, you will throw it far and for a long time, approximately like a gramophone. laughing
    2. +2
      3 December 2014 12: 55
      Quote: Spade
      Doesn't it seem to anyone that for one thousandth of the money spent on these events, you can create an electric generator based on the internal combustion engine with an acceptable noise level for these tasks?


      This is not true. Just make a gasoline engine with a generator is already a button accordion. He will always be tied to the gas tap. The idea now is to create an "energy storage" that can be filled in any way possible.

      The fuel cell is a good thing, but this is the prospect of the next 20-30 years. There are certainly working copies, but they have a cost per kilowatt of energy that is very large and relatively short. Of course, they will enter the military commissariat, but for the citizen it is not justifiably expensive.

      For example, there is a variant of a household hydrogen-powered car, but it’s worth the trouble that it costs more than a million greens and the manufacturer doesn’t sell it, but leases it along with a gas station ... There is even a Citroën developer on alcohol fuel cells ... 34 kilowatts seems to be a margin. .. costs more than 60 thousand dollars ... and the energy supply is farted well at times ... This is normally 30 kilowatts for a bicycle, not for a car ...
      1. +2
        3 December 2014 13: 27
        Quote: Geisenberg
        This is not true. Just make a gasoline engine with a generator is already button accordion.


        Again. There are two tasks, the first is to recharge the battery of electronic devices in the arsenal of the infantry unit. The second is APU for armored objects with low unmasking signs, heat and noise.

        You don't need anything global, you don't need "perspectives". Just figure out which method is cheaper to solve these two problems
  5. +3
    3 December 2014 12: 00
    I do not understand what's new in hybrid installations?
    Take electric locomotives. Or the children's magazine 'Young Technician', in which it was written how an electric motor from a toy could be adapted as a generator for a bicycle flashlight.
    The main problems are finances, technologies to reduce the cost and reduce weight, and the oil lobby.
    1. 0
      3 December 2014 12: 03
      Quote: Vasya
      I do not understand what's new in hybrid installations?

      The process of energy storage.

      Quote: Vasya
      Take an electric locomotive.

      There is a conditional hybrid. Here in the Toyota Prius is real and, accordingly, toliv consumption is 2 (two) times less.
      1. +1
        3 December 2014 12: 39
        Quote: professor
        Quote: Vasya
        I do not understand what's new in hybrid installations?

        The process of energy storage.


        And what's new in it ??? Does chtoli accumulate through the astral? The only new thing is lithium ion batteries. Until they were invented, hybrid installations could not be accommodated in no matter how reasonable volume. Now you will tell me about the submarines of the Second World War ... let me remind you that a day of 2-junction is not a very "reasonable" volume.

        Quote: professor
        Quote: Vasya
        Take an electric locomotive.

        There is a conditional hybrid. Here in the Toyota Prius is real and, accordingly, toliv consumption is 2 (two) times less.


        What does "conditional" mean ?? For half a chtoli? The locomotive has no battery and no mechanical transmission. It's just such a constructive decision. Again ... What do you mean "real"? There is apparently also a "fake" ... Very interesting of course.

        Fuel consumption cannot be less according to the law of conservation of energy. In the diesel electric ship about which Vasya speaks by comparison with the prius, there is simply no recovery, which certainly saves some of the energy, and fuel consumption is not even a unit of work will be better. But if you take the run at maximum speed, then the prius sucks ...
    2. +2
      3 December 2014 12: 42
      Quote: Vasya
      I do not understand what's new in hybrid installations?


      Nothing. Just a buzzword and lithium batteries. The idea in itself appeared on the same day and hour when the first serial batteries appeared. So nothing new.
  6. +1
    3 December 2014 20: 23
    These developments are good in that they can be used both in the military and in the civilian spheres. The latest noisy project on this topic is the creation of an E-mobile. A big minus in the high cost of energy storage that will be used in the power circuit.
    When integrating drive motors into the wheel hubs, all cardan shafts, differentials, drive shafts and gearboxes associated with traditional mechanical transmissions are eliminated and replaced by power cables and therefore they cannot become additional shells. The exclusion of all these mechanisms also allows you to raise the crew compartment above the ground at a given vehicle height, which makes passengers less vulnerable to explosions under the hull

    The author is silent about the aggressive environment. Cables and motors will need to have good sealing do not forget email. the engine needs to be cooled. In reality, prototypes are needed for their operation and comparison with classic drives. It may turn out that everything is smooth on paper, but not really in reality, or vice versa, prototypes will pleasantly surprise you. With a favorable outcome, the cost of email. the drive will pay off in the civilian sector.
    1. +1
      4 December 2014 00: 10
      All conversations will rest in the fact that everyone will be a banal extras. Methods and ways to increase the energy density, and behind this is the increase in the potential difference remain at the level of their discoverers. Therefore, the question again rests on fundamental science.
      I will not say that banal permanent magnets can be replaced by induction coils, which, depending on the potential difference formed on its "windings", will not form the effect of magnetic expulsion as a reciprocating moment, but spin or torque. This allows you to radically change not only the design of electric machines and generators. energy, but also their efficiency. At the very least, this means that the initiating batteries can be reduced both in the density of the supplied energy and in the mass-dimensional parameters.
      Hydrogen energy has its advantages in that the conversion of ordinary seawater with an efficient technology provides a range of advantages. We will not repeat. Everything again rests on fundamental knowledge, namely, how to carry out effectively the physical cycle of turning water into its derivatives. The closed cyclic process of converting water allows you to generate electricity. energy.
      Wise and attentive forum participants correctly point out that there is essentially nothing new in the text. There are no advances in physics and no specialists for a productive discussion. And personally, I did not learn anything new in the text.
  7. 0
    5 December 2014 02: 03
    Quote: gridasov
    All conversations will rest in the fact that everyone will be a banal extras. Methods and ways to increase the energy density, and behind this is the increase in the potential difference remain at the level of their discoverers. Therefore, the question again rests on fundamental science.
    I will not say that banal permanent magnets can be replaced by induction coils, which, depending on the potential difference formed on its "windings", will not form the effect of magnetic expulsion as a reciprocating moment, but spin or torque. This allows you to radically change not only the design of electric machines and generators. energy, but also their efficiency. At the very least, this means that the initiating batteries can be reduced both in the density of the supplied energy and in the mass-dimensional parameters.
    Hydrogen energy has its advantages in that the conversion of ordinary seawater with an efficient technology provides a range of advantages. We will not repeat. Everything again rests on fundamental knowledge, namely, how to carry out effectively the physical cycle of turning water into its derivatives. The closed cyclic process of converting water allows you to generate electricity. energy.
    Wise and attentive forum participants correctly point out that there is essentially nothing new in the text. There are no advances in physics and no specialists for a productive discussion. And personally, I did not learn anything new in the text.

    The process in a fuel cell is essentially the reverse of electrolysis of water. Water cannot be a source of energy for a fuel cell. The law of conservation of energy, you know. Well, nothing new ...