MIC

V. Khalitov told about the Armata project

In the coming years, Russian ground forces should receive the first production Tanks "Armata". This project is currently at the testing stage, however, it will take some time to fine-tune and establish serial production. Although some information about the new Russian tank has already become public, most of the information has not yet been disclosed. In recent days, the management of the Uralvagonzavod Corporation, which is the main contractor for the Armata project, has made several statements about it.




October 28 on the radio "Capital FM" released another issue of the author of the program Igor Korotchenko "National Defense". The guest of the program was Vyacheslav Halitov, deputy general director of the Uralvagonzavod corporation for special equipment. The host and guest of the program discussed a number of issues related to modern Russian and foreign armored vehicles, features of the international market, etc. Naturally, one of the topics of conversation was the new project "Armat".

The deputy general director of Uralvagonzavod noted that the characteristics of the promising Russian tank are still secret, but he spoke about some of its features. According to V. Khalitov, the Armat will be a tank of a completely new generation. There are no such cars in the world yet. This armored vehicle, attributable to the fifth generation, will not be a revolution in tank building, but it will be a serious step forward. The project implements previously created various ideas and solutions that significantly improve the performance of the combat vehicle. The calculations of specialists show the superiority of the "Armata" over the existing domestic and foreign tanks of modern types. Achieved an advantage in performance at the 25-30 percent level.

The task of creating electronic equipment designed to monitor the situation and search for targets, is both simple and complex. The new tank must quickly find and hit the enemy, performing a combat mission. To do this, according to V. Khalitov, the commander’s panoramic sight with enhanced characteristics and the gunner’s multi-channel sight will be used on the new tank. Such equipment should significantly reduce the time required to search for and destroy a target. All this will increase the tactical effectiveness of tanks on the battlefield.

The guest of the National Defense program said that the main task of the designers who developed the Armat tank was to increase crew safety. So, for additional protection of the crew, original layout solutions were used. To reduce risks, the crew "will not come into contact" with ammunition and fuel, as in modern tanks. The specialists of Uralvagonzavod studied a number of issues related to ergonomics and the convenience of the crew. For example, previously it was not possible to install air conditioners or similar equipment on combat vehicles. Within the framework of the “Armata” project, all necessary measures were taken to ensure comfortable work of the crew in various climatic conditions. The crew will be able to perform the assigned tasks for a long time without leaving their seats.

The deputy general director of Uralvagonzavod announced that the new tank Armata would receive a diesel engine. The specific type of the power plant and its power have not yet been named, however, V. Khalitov noted that the new Russian tank will surpass the existing domestic and foreign vehicles in specific power. The mobility of the tank will be provided by the engine of sufficient power. All this will allow to fulfill customer requirements in the person of the Ministry of Defense.

It has been repeatedly claimed that the Armat tanks will be shown to the public for the first time during the Victory Parade 9 of May 2015. V. Khalitov confirmed the relevance of these plans. A new domestic tank is still planned to be shown at the parade next year. In addition, the leaders of the corporation "Uralvagonzavod" intend to negotiate with the Ministry of Defense and present the machine "Armata" at the exhibition of weapons and equipment in Nizhny Tagil, which will be held in September 2015 of the year.

The host of the program I. Korotchenko reminded about the views of the country's leadership on the renewal of ground forces, which imply the construction of 2300 tanks of the new model. V. Khalitov did not comment on this figure, but said that the employees of Uralvagonzavod are currently making every effort to start the mass production of new armored vehicles. At the moment, the project "Armata" is at the stage of testing a prototype. Completion of tests is scheduled for 2015-16 years, after which the tank can be put into mass production.

There is a program for the preparation of the production of new tanks, the implementation of which has already invested heavily. This program involves the preparation of not only the Nizhny Tagil enterprise, which will assemble ready-made tanks, but also other organizations involved in the project. More than 380 of 1 level enterprises and more than 8000 of 3 enterprises will be involved in the production of Armata tanks. All enterprises and organizations involved in production cooperation are currently preparing to begin production of certain products. The result of preparation for the production and start of serial construction will be deliveries of new tanks to the troops, which may begin as early as 2017-18.

Specialists of the corporation "Uralvagonzavod" and related enterprises are now engaged in increasing the level of protection. Various materials are being studied that can be used for booking advanced tanks. As protection both various brands of steel, and composite materials are considered. Already "there are solutions on this issue." V. Khalitov said that the crew of the "Armaty" will be protected much better than on existing tanks.

When asked about the reaction to the Armata tank and Russia's reputation as the leading manufacturer of tanks, V. Khalitov responded that, taking into account foreign developments and successes, we can talk about the superiority of Russian armored vehicles: , but everyone seems to be following. ”

Uralvagonzavod Corporation remembers the commitment to show the Armata tank at the Victory Parade next year. Employees of the corporation understand the complexity of this task, but do not forget about its responsibility. The deputy general director of the corporation said that every effort was being made. Tank builders have no right not to show their new development at the parade.

November 8, V. Khalitov gave an interview to the Russian Service radio station News". It again touched on certain aspects of the technical appearance of the new project. In addition, new information was announced that was not mentioned on the air of the radio “Capital FM”. So, the deputy general director of Uralvagonzavod announced the continuation of testing a prototype of a new tank. Tests confirm all the inherent characteristics.

Answering the question about weapons, V. Khalitov said that as the main weapons guns of various calibers are considered. The layout of the new “Armata” tank is based on a modular principle that can affect its armament, equipment, etc. At the same time, however, he did not name the specific type and caliber of the weapon.

In the context of the general characteristics of the perspective tank, a so-called one was mentioned. coefficient of military-technical level. This indicator allows you to analyze the capabilities of armored vehicles, integrating a number of its characteristics. In this comparison, the coefficient of the main tank T-72B is taken as a unit. According to calculations, for “Armata” this indicator reaches 4.

“Russian News Service” for the first time published details on the participation of new tanks in the Victory Parade next year. V. Khalitov said that, by the decision of the Ministry of Defense, two “boxes” of new tanks would participate in the parade. Most likely, each of them will have 6-8 tanks. That is the number of cars "Armata" will be built in the experimental party.

As before, most of the information about the new project, in particular the characteristics of the promising tank, was not announced. Nevertheless, in two interviews V. Khalitov mentioned rather interesting facts about the new development. In particular, he confirmed the previously mentioned deadlines for the completion of the various phases of the project. In addition, some features of the participation of tanks "Armat" in the future Victory Parade became known. A little more than half a year is left before the new parade on Red Square. Thus, only a few months remained before the “premiere” of the new Russian tank.


On the materials of the sites:
http://stolica.fm/
http://rusnovosti.ru/
http://vpk-news.ru/
http://itar-tass.com/
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 08: 13 New
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    The mobility of the tank will be provided by an engine of sufficient power. All this will allow to fulfill the requirements of the customer in the person of the Ministry of Defense. good Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!
    1. inkass_98 12 November 2014 08: 24 New
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      Quote: Andrew Y.
      Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!

      Well, yes, they would also have reported that the tank would be driven by a caterpillar ... Damn, at least they would have shown some kind of drawing, not the speculations of the artists. And it’s so intriguing already that you can be very disappointed when a full-scale sample is presented ...
      1. Gxash 12 November 2014 08: 27 New
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        Ahhhhhh !!! Give it all!

        And what to see - let's see on Red Square on May 9!
        1. predator.3
          predator.3 12 November 2014 09: 02 New
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          A little more than six months are left before the new parade on Red Square. Thus, a few months remained before the “premiere” of the new Russian tank.


          Well, straight like Peter Jackson with his “The Hobbit”, he stretched out three episodes for three years, as the daughter said, until the final episode there was a month with a tail, or on December 17 or 19! Children endure, and we will tolerate ... until May 9! yes
        2. Litol
          Litol 12 November 2014 13: 45 New
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          hi or in Berlin fellow
        3. news
          news 12 November 2014 20: 48 New
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          moshny tank.
      2. Samaritan 12 November 2014 08: 28 New
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        And don’t say ... According to Stanislavsky I don’t believe ...)) Well, how many people can be tormented, show already, and we will be happy)))
      3. Kars 12 November 2014 08: 46 New
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        _______________________
      4. Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 09: 44 New
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        Quote: inkass_98
        And it’s so intriguing already that you can be very disappointed when a full-scale sample is presented ...

        yeah ... yes it’s already scary somehow ... so that it doesn’t work out like with Fedibondarchuk’s films: the more PR, the cooler the mu ... recourse although I believe in our Tagilchan! soldier
      5. duke
        duke 12 November 2014 10: 39 New
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        so what is this movie about? Yes, nothing !!! Well, we’ll wait, as they say in Odessa ... Ostap Ibrahimovic’s current, I would like to quickly, said Kisa ...
      6. Juborg 12 November 2014 13: 59 New
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        Quote: inkass_98
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!

        Well, yes, they would also have reported that the tank would be driven by a caterpillar ... Damn, at least they would have shown some kind of drawing, not the speculations of the artists. And it’s so intriguing already that you can be very disappointed when a full-scale sample is presented ...

        Here is a respected one that managed to dig more specifically under the project than an article
        1. Juborg 12 November 2014 14: 02 New
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          AND THERE ARE MUCH MORE!
          1. mirag2 12 November 2014 19: 17 New
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            Why minus something? The video is from the same place where the first came from.
            And here is one more thing:
            1. Tankomaster 12 November 2014 19: 44 New
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              and cons for cretinism .... and deletanstvo
          2. Juborg 12 November 2014 20: 13 New
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            I wanted the best, but in Russian I just spat in the soul. Yes, I’m not special, far from the army, but the majority here are far from this, but they BUILD experts from themselves, even to the nausea of ​​narcissism. Do not like it do not look, but do not care.
        2. Tankomaster 12 November 2014 19: 42 New
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          Let the designer of this clip in the army see tanks first and Khlopotov to him so that he doesn’t cough.
          Insanity grows stronger ... and until May 9 we will wait another half a year .. if N Tagil does not fly in on trials.
      7. Ezhaak 12 November 2014 15: 42 New
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        Quote: inkass_98
        . And then so intrigued already, Th

        Oh, how impatient you are. And they will reveal their appearance ahead of time, help the West and competing firms to decide as soon as possible. The later they understand Russian thought, the better for us. Be patient, be patient.
        And let the West do their heavyweights. They know how.
      8. Madcape 12 November 2014 18: 52 New
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        ... will not disappoint ... anyway, it will be without wings winked
      9. Russian1974
        Russian1974 24 November 2014 23: 13 New
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        he will campaign invisible tank laughing
    2. Imperialkolorad 12 November 2014 08: 28 New
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      This is just like the power of the Rolls-Royce engine - sufficient, as the English manufacturers of these limousines said in the distant, distant years.
    3. Wheel 12 November 2014 08: 53 New
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      Quote: Andrew Y.
      Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!

      Yes garden vegetable that declassified!
      If on the one hand it is claimed that the tank is already undergoing tests, then why will it only get the engine?
      For me, so bullshit is driven, there is nothing yet.
      At the parade, the models rivet.
      Zadolbala already this PR. Do - show, then brag.
      You can minus, but I will not change my opinion.
      1. RU-Officer 12 November 2014 09: 35 New
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        Yes, there is nothing to minus, by and large you are right. The prototype "Almaty" (so to speak) - T-95 "Black Eagle" - was shown back in the 2004 year at the Omsk VTTB. The main thing, because of which he did not go into the series - 1). "Running" from the T-80U; 2). An old Russian misfortune - "no money, no will, bureaucracy, Serdyukov + liberals and others." negative
        I really hope that a good project will be brought to mind and put into practice. Long hi
        1. Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 09: 48 New
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          Quote: RU-Officer
          The prototype "Armata" (so to speak) - T-95 "Black Eagle" - was shown back in 2004 at the Omsk VTTB.

          Oh yes the prototypes in the "backyard" are enough for the army for a small country! There were a lot of pans, they didn’t give. now hands are untied, there is money, just wait ... fellow
        2. Kair501 12 November 2014 10: 41 New
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          The black eagle and the object 195 (t 95) are completely different machines, the first is just a deep modernization of t 80 like t 90 cm only from Omsk. And the second car is a completely new development, and the most interesting thing is that it was not shown to anyone and Armata is its development
        3. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 12 November 2014 13: 41 New
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          Quote: RU-Officer
          The prototype "Almaty" (so to speak) - T-95 "Black Eagle" - was shown back in 2004 at the Omsk VTTB


          The Black Eagle did not have its own serial index, I mean the T-95 (which incidentally belongs to another machine, which was developed at the KB UVZ, and not at the KB Omsktransmash).
          The only index of this machine is ob.640, and this suggests that this machine is experimental and existed only in the framework of R&D. The project was closed.
          Instrumentation and control systems for ob.640 remained at the design stage.
          The same thing with the power plant.
      2. Tommygun 12 November 2014 09: 48 New
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        And I still did not like this phrase:
        "Specialists of Uralvagonzavod Corporation and related companies are now working on issues of improving the level of protection. Various materials are being studied that can be used to book promising tanks. Both various steel grades and composite materials are considered as protection. Already" there are solutions to this issue " "V. Khalitov said that the crew of" Almaty "will be protected much better than on existing tanks."
        That is, six months later, 12-16 cars will already go to the parade, but what are they not yet decided on? Probably plywood models, as in films about the Second World War will show ...
        1. Lentosder 12 November 2014 10: 29 New
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          In the article, everything is clearly written on this issue: the modular principle and the experimental series. fellow
      3. Homo 12 November 2014 13: 17 New
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        Quote: Wheel
        If on the one hand it is claimed that the tank is already undergoing tests, then why will it only get the engine?

        T-50, too, began to test not with native engines and nothing!
      4. Mairos 12 November 2014 13: 41 New
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        And minusanul .. You, sir, are whining - around guano, they remove the gypsum, everything is sold, the client leaves. The whining is already tired. You can see a beggar and a drunk man in the subway, or you can see beautiful architecture and beautiful girls. Who is attracted to what. )))
      5. mirag2 13 November 2014 05: 30 New
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        The engine?
        well, 90% of us here are not tankers, but here Shurygin is about fifth-generation airplanes and about Tanks of the fifth. (although Shurygin is also not a tanker, but a Pvoshnik)
    4. tilovaykrisa 12 November 2014 10: 49 New
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      The most interesting thing is the crew layout and what elements of active protection will be installed; their operating principle, as always, has not been announced.
      1. Homo 12 November 2014 13: 19 New
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        Quote: tilovaykrisa
        The most interesting thing is the crew layout and what elements of active protection will be installed; their operating principle, as always, has not been announced.

        Are you from the CIA, Mossad, or where else? You put everything on a silver platter on the latest, experienced, secret development? TTX, know-how applied, etc.?
    5. xan
      xan 12 November 2014 14: 52 New
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      Quote: Andrew Y.
      Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!

      He also said "will not be revolutionary in tank building." This suggests that all the chips used in the tank have already been met somewhere.
    6. Denis fj
      Denis fj 12 November 2014 21: 41 New
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      A 90% picture has nothing to do with reality and this is understandable even to a specialist:
      1) the tower is shifted back, but the engine is also located there, which, with this arrangement, forces the fuel tanks to be moved forward - a very dubious decision, because the engine can still serve as an armored screen, but there is clearly no significant amount of fuel near the crew compartment. By the way, access to the engine is simply disgusting, because a tower is blocking it from above, a tracked chassis on the sides, and mine screens from below. Roll out the entire engine block for maintenance like on Abrams? For kapitalki - I admit, but for regular inspection in our army - it's just nonsense, because will deprive the tank of combat readiness for whole hours, if not a day. I’m silent about the fact that this will clearly shift the center of gravity of the vehicle back and lead to very detrimental consequences in actual operation, and even more so when operating in a combat situation.
      2) the turret itself is too small for such an arrangement - either the meager ammunition tank or the ammunition storage unit is forward again, which is also impossible due to the presence of fuel tanks there and the declared contactlessness of the crew with ammunition and fuel compartments (automatic delivery of ammunition can still be arranged from the internal volume towers, but from the front of the hull with a circular rotation tower - this is nonsense with existing technologies). Uninhabited compartment of a tower? Judging by the observation instruments, the crew hatches and the standard anti-aircraft machine gun (remotely controlled machine guns look different) this is not even mentioned, which again somehow does not fit, if not with the promises of the designers of Armata, then certainly with the expectations of the public and world trends in tank building.
      3) the open shoulder strap of the tower is generally nonsense - this is an almost guaranteed undermining of the BC when an enemy shell hits the joint of the tower and the hull, which should be doubly relevant for a tank with an uninhabited tower.
      4) The chassis seems to have been unified for tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, self-propelled guns and anti-aircraft guns, but here it is completely unclear where it is planned to land an BMP landing force. Above what?
      PS We are waiting for the demonstration of the “box” of the first experimental car at the parade on May 9, 2014 - this is so far the only reliable information, but it will be clear that this will be the outer skeleton, and not a full-fledged tank, even in terms of development and adoption. Something like the first flight of the PAK FA - it will be able to move, and it is still too early to conduct hostilities.
    7. badbatr
      badbatr 17 November 2014 16: 28 New
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      the tank is strong - with a crew, I served on the T-64B, with a well-coordinated crew, I would go against the Armada, the T-84 - maneuverability, and the barrel is 125mm !!
  2. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 12 November 2014 08: 18 New
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    Wait and see. New tanks for the SV are very necessary.
    Caring for the crew is good, the main thing is that these are not just words. And so that all the good wishes and comments of the tankers should also be taken into account in the development.
    We look forward to May 9, 2015.
  3. EvgenSuslov 12 November 2014 08: 19 New
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    Waiting, hoping and believing!
  4. Moore 12 November 2014 08: 21 New
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    V. Khalitov said that, by decision of the Ministry of Defense, two “boxes” of new tanks will participate in the parade. Most likely, each of them will have 6-8 tanks. It is this number of Armata vehicles that will be built in the pilot batch.

    A little more than six months are left before the new parade on Red Square. Thus, a few months remained before the “premiere” of the new Russian tank.

    And before the start of the garrison training - five months. 12-16 products, for good, should be ready by January. The rest of the time will be run-in and elimination of "children's" malfunctions. Heavy...
    1. Kvazar 12 November 2014 14: 00 New
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      Already as a year the chassis is being run in. And 12-16 products are already an experimental series. Then there will be a pre-production. And only after that serial.
  5. nemo1983 12 November 2014 08: 22 New
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    Cheers, comrades !!!

    PS I thought: if the crew will not leave the car on duty, will there be a toilet in the tank. Do not beat for thought, it is sound. Imagine a meal for 6 hours in a territory contaminated with radiation, but I was impatient for a small one.
    1. Wheel 12 November 2014 08: 37 New
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      Quote: nemo1983
      Cheers, comrades !!!

      PS I thought: if the crew will not leave the car on duty, will there be a toilet in the tank. Do not beat for thought, it is sound. Imagine a meal for 6 hours in a territory contaminated with radiation, but I was impatient for a small one.

      Pampers for what?
      It is said that taking into account the latest domestic and foreign best practices! laughing laughing
    2. mark1 12 November 2014 08: 55 New
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      Quote: nemo1983
      Imagine a meal for 6 hours in a territory contaminated with radiation, but I was impatient for a small one.

      Airborne hatch in the bottom and lead underpants with a window and supercharging ...
      1. Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 09: 50 New
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        Quote: mark1
        The landing hatch in the bottom and

        Yes, you can send it to the "partners" through the gun ... laughing
      2. Mairos 12 November 2014 13: 42 New
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        It’s easier to put on diapers.
        1. serega.fedotov 12 November 2014 21: 10 New
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          Quote: Mairos
          It’s easier to put on diapers.

          As I was told by a familiar sniper-impression of wearing diapers, he has “full pants” in the sense of diapers! In general, the toilet will somehow be cleaner! Just how to put it into the tank, I can’t even imagine in theory!
    3. Seraphimamur 12 November 2014 09: 00 New
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      there is a plastic bag for this case ....
      1. Bogranz 12 November 2014 10: 42 New
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        Hmm .... there is a product number 2, which is very successfully used by some motorists, but what is worse than tankers?
    4. Tommygun 12 November 2014 09: 50 New
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      So show your will to win!
      Defeat the adversary until he managed it))
    5. aleshka 12 November 2014 10: 38 New
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      Diapers were invented in the 19th century !!!
    6. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 12 November 2014 13: 44 New
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      Quote: nemo1983
      PS I thought: if the crew will not leave the car on duty, will there be a toilet in the tank.


      Quite possible. Type "bio."
    7. Kvazar 12 November 2014 14: 04 New
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      In a bag or in a can of canned food ... What is your toilet in the tank. You don’t have a dry closet in the car when you eat at the cottage for 6 hours. A small bottle)))
    8. voyaka uh 12 November 2014 17: 40 New
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      Merkavs were sometimes ambushed with the off
      engine for 2 days. Therefore, a bio-toilet, and
      apparatus for hot coffee, and a folding bed
      (instead of a number of shelving racks) there were very
      in demand ... smile
      1. Quadra 13 November 2014 15: 27 New
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        There is an almost full-fledged landing compartment on the back of the Merkavas, so there’s a place there - at least put a jacuzzi.
  6. Starover_Z 12 November 2014 08: 23 New
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    Again the intrigue about "Armata". But now I’ve read with pride about the project! Keep it up !
  7. Imperialkolorad 12 November 2014 08: 30 New
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    Well, how much can you already "look" at Armata on paper. And not even in the drawings, but in blurry promises. You give the tank in iron and on the conveyor.
  8. sherik 12 November 2014 08: 32 New
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    They will show that at the parade they will show, and the serial production is already 17-18gg.
  9. Wedmak 12 November 2014 09: 16 New
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    That’s why I don’t like such articles, because each paragraph, in different words, says the same thing. And they didn’t say anything new. Chasing the volume of the article? Even from school I was freezing the requirement of “at least 4 sheets of text”, when everything can be put into one! Directly some kind of illness.
    1. Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 09: 52 New
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      Quote: Wedmak
      Even from school I was freezing the requirement of “at least 4 sheets of text”, when everything can be fit into one!

      for sure! you sit and write "inch" oblique letters to make it faster .... laughing
  10. rudolff 12 November 2014 09: 19 New
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    Strange a bit. The machine is undergoing tests, the pilot batch is in full swing, but ... Until now, we have not decided on the type of reservation, steel grades, barrel gauge, engine ... Perhaps it is only known that there will be air conditioning and the tank will be the best in the world!
    1. Taga 12 November 2014 20: 09 New
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      Already not a little, and the rest will be pulled in the process! :-)
  11. Cosmos1987 12 November 2014 09: 24 New
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    I wonder what engine will be installed on this platform? On Wik, they write that A-85-ZA, with a capacity of 1500 hp. If for a tank this is power at the time, then for a multi-purpose engineering machine, a tank bridge, a floating conveyor, which will be built on the basis of the same platform, will be pretty large.
    1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 09: 30 New
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      If you believe the modularity and a single platform, then it will be possible to change everything, including the engine.
      1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 09: 52 New
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        I wonder if it will be possible to use gas turbines as an option and what type of drive will be used?
        1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 09: 56 New
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          For a gas turbine engine there, the whole razdatka still needs to be changed, along with clutches and other power junk ... although, what the hell is not joking.
          1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 10: 03 New
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            To ensure real modularity, I consider the most optimal hybrid drive. The engine rotates the generator, and the tracks are driven by electric motors.
            This allows you to change the location of the power plant in variants MBT, BMP, self-propelled guns, etc.
            1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 08 New
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              In principle, it will be interesting. Hybrid ones have long been used in mining trucks and the power there is decent, but the tank is a small machine, and it requires a lot of horses, can such a hybrid stir up?
              1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 10: 15 New
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                Firstly, maximum power is not always required.
                For example, we have an ICE with 1000 horsepower.
                When parking or driving under part load, say 500 hp we can store energy from the remaining 500 forces in the battery and, if necessary, a sharp acceleration to release it, while receiving 1500 hp
                Thus, this scheme allows you to get a higher peak power from an existing unit or the same from a smaller one.
                1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 27 New
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                  When parking or driving under part load, say 500 hp we can store energy from the remaining 500 forces in the battery and, if necessary, a sharp acceleration to release it, while receiving 1500 hp

                  Everything would be fine, but the weight of such batteries will eat half the armor and ammunition. And it will have to be protected by armor. Batteries love to explode, short, die at the most interesting moment, etc.
                  1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 10: 34 New
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                    Large batteries are needed not for the hybrid, but for clean electric vehicles. For a hybrid, even powerful capacitors are enough. In modern batteries, many of the problems voiced by you have already been solved.
                    In addition, in the event of a battery failure, the tank does not lose mobility, it continues to move on the energy generated by the internal combustion engine generator.
                    1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 47 New
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                      In addition, in the event of a battery failure, the tank does not lose mobility, it continues to move on the energy generated by the internal combustion engine generator.

                      Well, let's understand the batteries. Does ICE + generator + two electric motors + all add. mechanisms in the size of the engine compartment of the tank? Something I have doubts.
                      1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 10: 53 New
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                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Does ICE + generator + two electric motors + all add. mechanisms in the size of the engine compartment of the tank? Something I have doubts.

                        Do not forget that such a tank does not need a transmission
                      2. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 59 New
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                        And the volume of the transmission will not eat the volume of the generator and TWO electric motors? By the way, but they really worked out the hybrid scheme on tanks (or other tracked vehicles), you are not in the know?
                      3. Tommygun 12 November 2014 11: 05 New
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                        Yes, British TOG1 1940. (Approximately).
                        Also, the Germans and ours had such developments, but at that time the implementation looked too complicated.
                      4. Wedmak 12 November 2014 11: 09 New
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                        Judging by the lack of prototypes, today the implementation of this idea is not very advanced.
                    2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 20 New
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                      No, he won’t eat it. Modern electric motors and generators are quite compact.

                      Quote: Wedmak
                      By the way, but they really worked out the hybrid scheme on tanks (or other tracked vehicles), you are not in the know?

                      The Belgians worked on this topic. BMP "Cobra-41", light tank "Cobra-90". Only there was an electric transmission, not a hybrid.
                      And even so, they had enough 190-horsepower engine. The hybrid allows power to be further reduced.
                    3. Kvazar 12 November 2014 14: 57 New
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                      Yes Title Ferdinand / Elephant. Only there Akum was dumb
                    4. Tommygun 12 November 2014 15: 08 New
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                      It used an electric transmission. At that time, normal batteries did not exist, so there was no question of hybrids.
                      Today, if you use electric transmission, it's silly not to think about using batteries to store energy.
              2. Tommygun 12 November 2014 10: 59 New
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                ICE + generator is a single unit instead of ICE + gearbox.
                Traction motors are directly connected to the drive wheels (instead of final drives).
                Instead of shafts and drives, cables.
              3. Wedmak 12 November 2014 11: 07 New
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                ICE + generator + electric motors (!) Will give the same power as ICE + gearbox to the drive wheel, with the same volume?
              4. Tommygun 12 November 2014 11: 13 New
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                What bothers you?
              5. Wedmak 12 November 2014 11: 23 New
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                What bothers you?

                It is confusing how big and heavy the engine will be, the generator itself and the electric motors. This is not a car in 1,5 tons ... If you take the ICE in 1000 hp, then what size and weight will the electric motor have at the same power?
              6. Kvazar 12 November 2014 14: 58 New
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                See the drawing of the vocational school Ferdinat / Elephant of the Second World War. In short, DOPIGA)
  • cosmos111 12 November 2014 11: 10 New
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    Quote: Tommygun
    I consider the most optimal hybrid drive


    that's for sure, GDU will significantly increase
    reserved space and fuel consumption ... at least 20% .....
    moreover, such technologies have been developed in Belarus and us ....
    1. Mooh 12 November 2014 11: 55 New
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      Everything has been counted for a long time. Electric transmissions have significantly higher mass and lower efficiency. On hybrid cars, there is always a mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and the wheels.
      1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 12: 08 New
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        On hybrid cars, there is always a mechanical connection between the internal combustion engine and the wheels.

        What for?
        1. Mooh 12 November 2014 12: 54 New
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          Higher efficiency - lower fuel consumption.
      2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 31 New
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        Quote: MooH
        Everything has been counted for a long time.

        Well, “long ago” it was ineffective, and now ... Electrical engineering has stepped far forward since the Second World War.
        1. Mooh 12 November 2014 12: 55 New
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          Electrical engineering then took a step, but the laws of physics have not changed wink
          1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 58 New
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            Which ones? And why these laws do not apply to mining trucks?
            1. Mooh 12 November 2014 13: 07 New
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              It’s completely acting. I don’t know much about mining trucks, but I suppose that they intentionally sacrificed profitability there in order to achieve better smoothness of movement or increase torque on wheels.
            2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 13: 21 New
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              Quote: MooH
              in order to achieve a better ride or increase the torque on wheels.

              That is what tanks need? The smoothness of the movement gives less load on the stabilizers of weapons and sights, torque, here and so it is clear

              By the way, in terms of efficiency: the electromechanical transmission of RUSELPROM has an efficiency of 86%. Experimentally confirmed

              And what about the traditional?
            3. Mooh 12 November 2014 13: 35 New
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              Below are the values ​​of the transmission efficiency of various types of vehicles and its individual mechanisms:
              Cars 0,90 ... 0,92
              Trucks and buses 0,82 ... 0,85
              Cars
              patency 0,80 ... 0,85

              I think that a tank without GOP has about 90. I read about Belarusian tractors. I don’t believe in such beautiful numbers.
            4. Lopatov 12 November 2014 13: 46 New
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              Quote: MooH
              Off-road vehicles 0,80 ... 0,85

              Quote: MooH
              I think the tank without GOP has about 90.


              How is a car? Efficiency of a caterpillar tractor 0,82-0,86
            5. Mooh 12 November 2014 13: 56 New
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              Tractor or its transmission? The tank of the classic layout has a very efficient transmission, the transmission is not far and there are not many reducers. The only friction clutch can fail. I do not know how they are with efficiency. Just do not know if there is a slip in the closed state.
            6. family tree 12 November 2014 20: 20 New
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              Quote: MooH
              The only friction clutch can fail. I don’t know how they are with efficiency.

              Almost 100%. When turned on, at constant speeds, all losses are only due to friction against air. Only onboard friction clutches on modern tanks, it seems like there aren’t request , the main thing is, not at all remained.
            7. Mooh 12 November 2014 22: 50 New
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              Quote: perepilka
              all friction losses only on air

              Is it dry? How to transmit such a crazy moment without cooling?
              Quote: perepilka
              Only onboard friction clutches on modern tanks, it seems like there aren’t

              it doesn’t matter if there are no side clutches, then there is a differential, and it is also not completely free from the point of view of efficiency.
            8. family tree 13 November 2014 00: 49 New
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              Quote: MooH
              Is it dry? How to transmit such a crazy moment without cooling?
              dry
              Malfunctions of onboard friction clutches and brakes

              Poor handling
              (heavy turns or tank stop when turning).
              Slipping of friction discs due to incorrect drive adjustment
              side friction clutch (all play between balls and rings of the shutdown mechanism is selected).
              Adjust control drive
              side clutches.
              Oiling friction discs. Disassemble the clutch, rinse and dry
              wipe the discs.
              Replace oil seal.
              Oiling brake, pads and drum.
              To remove a brake tape, to wash a tape with pads and a drum with kerosene and to wipe them dry.
              Incorrect belt or brake adjustment.
              Adjust the brake actuator and the clearance between the brake pads and the drum.

              This is from the T-34 manual
              http://www.wio.ru/tank/manual/t34manual5-3.htm request
              Quote: MooH
              it doesn’t matter if there are no side clutches, then there is a differential, and it is also not completely free from the point of view of efficiency.

              Starting with the T-64, they put on-board gear change boxes (BKPP) on each side, the turn is carried out by switching on different gears. And the differential on the MS-1 stood, and the belt brakes on each side, without clutches, for a long time it was what at the beginning of the last century.
  • family tree 12 November 2014 20: 10 New
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    Quote: Spade
    By the way, in terms of efficiency: the electromechanical transmission of RUSELPROM has an efficiency of 86%. Experimentally confirmed

    what From the evil one, most likely. Electric machines have two efficiency factors, electric and industrial. So the electric will be higher, a little more than 90%. The generator, plus the engine, 0,9 times 0,9, that's 0,81. Then the problems begin. Losses on mechanical parts, bearings, couplings, gears, were also not canceled there, and so on, then the cost of power to remove heat from the generator and the electric motor, losses on the contacts and conductors between the generator and the electric motor. In general, 65% of the output is already wonderful.
    And at the expense of hybridists, I think instead of batteries they would prefer thicker armor, or more rounds, "extra" weight is not needed there, not a tractor, not a tractor, in the sense.
  • Lopatov 12 November 2014 21: 07 New
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    Quote: perepilka
    From the evil one, most likely.

    What "from the crafty" if they offer this drive to others?

    This is the efficiency of the complex "ICE - motor generator - two electric motors"
  • family tree 13 November 2014 00: 17 New
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    Quote: Spade
    This is the efficiency of the complex "ICE - motor generator - two electric motors"

    ICE: diesel, efficiency up to 45%, gasoline, rumors that they could raise up to 38%.
    Once again, the declared efficiency is most likely electric Efficiency of the generator-motor system
  • Pablo_K 12 November 2014 13: 59 New
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    Quote: Tommygun
    To ensure real modularity, I consider the most optimal hybrid drive. The engine rotates the generator, and the tracks are driven by electric motors.

    the Germans even during the war tried this
    we had such a DET tractor called (it was good to drive vodka from the quarry), such a scheme took root only on large BELAZ (for some reason, a conventional torque converter on small ones)
    1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 14: 59 New
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      During the war, the element base did not yet exist at the proper level (for example, compare the current power tool and even the 20-30 of the summer ago).
      It’s better to ride for vodka on a bike (the cops won’t tie it up).
      An electric transmission is more expensive than a torque converter.
      When it comes to commercial equipment, expensive things are used only when absolutely necessary.
  • Triarius North
    Triarius North 12 November 2014 09: 24 New
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    I look forward to seeing it soon.
  • Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2014 09: 54 New
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    parade as a child waiting ... smile
    1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 05 New
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      We wait. But is it really possible that MO is so confident in this development that the news will show at the parade? Not at some presentation, not at the exhibition, but at the Victory Parade !!! ??? And not a car that is already in the army, but a secret car that has just stepped off the assembly line and is actually still in testing ?!
      Of course, there are no alternatives to Armata, but damn it is impossible to hit the face with dirt.
      1. Kvazar 12 November 2014 15: 00 New
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        Yes, because they are already as a year experienced platform armata run in)
  • Professor 12 November 2014 10: 17 New
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    There are no similar cars in the world yet.

    Again not having analogues in the world.

    For this, according to V. Khalitov, the new tank will use the panoramic sight of the commander with improved characteristics, as well as a multi-channel gunner’s sight.

    What is the breakthrough?

    So, for additional protection of the crew, original layout solutions were applied.

    Is it possible to transfer the SU from the stern to the nose?

    For example, previously it was not possible to install air conditioners or similar equipment on military vehicles.

    Conder and automatic transmission is a breakthrough.

    The crew will be able to fulfill their tasks for a long time without leaving their seats.

    The dry closet will probably be delivered as in others.

    V. Khalitov said that the crew of "Almaty" will be protected much better than on existing tanks.

    Only a battle can show who is better protected.

    “Russia will demonstrate that we are a great tank power, that we are moving ahead, and everyone is following, as it were,”

    Just not in the wake, but in a different direction altogether, either completely stop the production of tanks in view of their futility, or work on the creation of hybrid armored vehicles.
    1. Wedmak 12 November 2014 10: 30 New
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      either completely stop the production of tanks in view of their futility, or are working on the creation of hybrid armored vehicles.

      The last one was very surprised. Choi that tank suddenly became unpromising? And how can a hybrid armored vehicle replace a heavy tracked, well-armed and protected tank?
      1. Professor 12 November 2014 11: 21 New
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        Quote: Wedmak
        Choi that tank suddenly became unpromising?

        It is so “promising” that the leading tank powers (England, France, the USA and Germany) are working hard to create new tanks, and Israel is riveting the Merkava MK6 in general. laughing

        Quote: Spade
        Does anyone already have such cars?

        What are these? What is in the tank so far non-existent?

        Quote: Spade
        It rather reduces protection.

        Crew protection? After all, it is precisely about him.

        Quote: Spade
        Hybrid? What is it like? Type of Ukrainian project "armored car for drap?

        Hybrid ones are those in which you can’t understand why their fuel consumption is so low.
        1. silver_roman 12 November 2014 12: 02 New
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          Quote: Professor
          It is so “promising” that the leading tank powers (England, France, the USA and Germany) are working hard to create new tanks, and Israel is riveting the Merkava MK6 in general.

          England, France and Syshya - a leading tank power ??? belay
          I agree with Germany. except for the abrams (and it is largely licked from the leopard), then the amers did not have decent tanks. The feathers were not bad, and that is not a breakthrough far. about the M4 Sherman and modifications - it's stupid meat.
          England and France - generally silent.
          It so happened that the idea of ​​using a tank is completely different between us and Westerners.
          We built our armadas to break through the tank wedges to the English Channel, and you are building your own so that in the city you can shoot guns at counters and hospitals in the city, like it was in Iraq. The approach is different. For this, the same abrams is not suitable, because having powerful frontal armor, suffers on fragile sides and stern. To do this, and create new cars. In addition, it’s too expensive to do almost climate control, a dry closet, a massager in the chair for your uber yues marins ... it’s easier to equip the natives from their PMCs (al-Qaida, IS, etc.) and give them stupidly armored boxes, where and there will be no servos. Cheap, massive and cheerful. And most importantly, it fits into the budget and goals in general.
          1. Professor 12 November 2014 12: 12 New
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            Quote: silver_roman
            England, France and Syshya - a leading tank power ???

            The English word is “tank”, the French layout of modern Russian tanks, the same French thermal imager on the T-72, automatic charging device also the French invention, the American T-34 suspension ... Continue?

            Quote: silver_roman
            and you are building your own so that in the city at point-blank range you can shoot down the shelves and hospitals. as was done in Iraq

            ... and in Chechnya, and in Tskhinvali, and in the Donbass ... Absolutely "idea of ​​the use of the tank with us and Westerners" is not it?

            Quote: silver_roman
            To do this, and create new cars.

            Who is creating? Lists in the studio.
            1. silver_roman 12 November 2014 12: 47 New
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              Quote: Professor
              Who is creating? Lists in the studio

              about the creation of this you tell me. themselves wrote in a previous post:
              Quote: Professor
              Professor (3) Today, 11: 21 ↑
              Quote: Wedmak
              Choi that tank suddenly became unpromising?
              It is so "promising" that the leading tank powers (England, France, the USA and Germany) in full working on new tanks, and Israel generally rivet Merkava MK6.

              So the list is waiting from you.

              Quote: Professor
              The English word is "tank", the French layout of modern Russian tanks, the same French thermal imager on the T-72, the automatic charging device is also a French invention, the American T-34 suspension ...

              the fact that the British came up with the tank first does not make England a great tank power. quantity in service, technical characteristics of tanks, export potential, etc. And what kind of layout are you talking about? more about Renault tanks, on the basis of which they made the MC-1 ??? And at the expense of Christie's pendant: there is still a moot point. many believe this was the weak point of the t-34.
              at the expense of the thermal imager: it was easier to buy ready-made than to build your own. they’ll open a bench, we’ll do our own. no problem. this is not a spaceship, but a thermal imager. innovation to me too. Automatic loading - I agree. I will not argue here, only again, the principle is involved more than the mechanism itself. I understand that you are talking about AMX?

              Quote: Professor
              .and in Chechnya, and in Tskhinvali, and in the Donbass ... Absolutely "idea of ​​the use of the tank with us and Westerners" is not it?


              It’s one thing that we had to use them in the city. Another thing is that the West actively uses them in the city and sets a goal for itself during the invasion. We have not in vain the BMPT terminator developed. In order not to repeat the situation with Chechnya, it is necessary not to modernize tanks .... but special services. but that is another question.
              1. Professor 12 November 2014 13: 54 New
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                Quote: silver_roman
                So the list is waiting from you.

                This is a respected sarcasm. These leading tank powers do not see the future in tanks - this is already without sorcasm.

                Quote: silver_roman
                quantity in service

                Amount in service? Do not tell, the quantity does not always turn into quality. The most massive car did not become the most advanced, high-quality, etc. And England is a great tank power.

                Quote: silver_roman
                It’s one thing that we had to use them in the city. Another thing is that the West actively uses them in the city and sets a goal for itself during the invasion.

                The same eggs are on the left. And the bourgeois “were forced,” not from a good life.

                Quote: silver_roman
                We have not in vain the BMPT terminator developed.

                So what? Already been in a battle? wink
                1. silver_roman 12 November 2014 18: 19 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  These leading tank powers do not see the future in tanks - this is already without sorcasm.

                  right, they don’t see. it’s much easier and cheaper to send a shahid and call him an action movie. and Tank is too expensive and high-tech toy to kill "savages" from it.
                  But in fact the tank will always be on the battlefield. he has no replacement. and what “great tank powers” ​​come up with is their business. it’s not at all a fact that any corporation is lobbying its interests corny.

                  Quote: Professor
                  Amount in service? Do not tell, the quantity does not always turn into quality. The most massive car did not become the most advanced, high-quality, etc. And England is a great tank power.

                  you say this to the “Tigers”, which were attacked by hordes of thin “Shermans”. at a price of 1 tiger cost more than 4 shermans. On the battlefield, quality is not the main thing, but victory.
                  you again look not at the goal, but in fact. the company that created the most massive car did not set itself the task of making the highest quality car.
                  Quote: Professor
                  And the bourgeois “were forced,” not from a good life.

                  no one was pushing the bourgeois to attack Iraq and several dozen countries. They long and hard pulled their army under it.
                  I'm talking about inevitability and necessity.

                  Quote: Professor
                  So what? Already been in a battle?

                  thank God there was no reason and need. The Kazakhs have purchased.
                2. tchoni 12 November 2014 20: 09 New
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                  These leading tank powers do not see the future in tanks - this is already without sorcasm
                  and at the same time they are developing a merkava for No. 6 - as Woland said: "I'm sorry, I won’t believe it." As far as I understand the meaning of Western articles and developments, it was not the idea of ​​the tank itself that was disappointing, but the fact that using existing tanks it is very difficult to project power into different parts of the world (especially if there are no roads). And the enemy’s weapons, as evil, are not appropriate for the tank’s defense. (For example, that Abrash, that the manager, that the Merkava are designed to withstand, first of all, the kinetic ammunition of tank and anti-tank guns. For a soldier with a border, this protection is redundant in the frontal part and insufficient from the sides.) So the idea came to light heads. (you have to think inspired by all sorts of miracles): what if you only book the crew properly, and the rest didn’t break the 0.50 gauge + duplication of systems. We’ll save the crew, and cover the adversaries, and we will load the repair services, as well as the factories for the production of spare parts, and most importantly, we can plant democracy around the world without haemorrhoids with the transportation of seventy-ton shnyah. Something like this.
                  But, (I can’t be proud of it) the Soviet tank school has always been very careful about weight. So let's see what Rodizzo 9.05.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX year.
                  ps According to unverified sources, Merkava No. 6 was going to weigh about 50 tons.
                3. Victor-M 12 November 2014 23: 49 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  This is a respected sarcasm. These leading tank powers do not see the future in tanks - this is already without sorcasm.


                  And they have it, in principle, the future then? laughing
              2. wanderer_032
                wanderer_032 12 November 2014 13: 54 New
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                Quote: silver_roman
                And at the expense of Christie's pendant: there is still a moot point. many believe this was the weak point of the t-34.


                That's right. So A.A. considered Morozov, who became the chief designer of HCBM after the death of Koshkin M.I.
                Another tank was already under development, with the A-43 torsion bar suspension, but the war had already begun and it was not possible to rebuild production for a new car.

            2. wanderer_032
              wanderer_032 12 November 2014 14: 20 New
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              Quote: Professor
              American T-34 suspension


              But such a diesel engine as V-2, which was installed on the BT-7M, T-34 and KV-1 in 1941, was not on any serial tank in the world.
              Tank guns of the equivalent performance characteristics of the 76-mm F-32 and F-34 were also not on any mass-produced tank of that time, except for the T-34 and KV-1.
              The Germans 75 mm tank guns with a long barrel appeared only in the 42nd.
              Not a single western tank of that time had a slanted mounted armor either.
              By the way, the torsion bar suspension at that time was already put on the serial KV-1 / KV-2 and on the T-50.
              By the way, such a tank as the KV-1 was not in service in any army in the world at that time. KV-1 is completely Russian development, in all respects.

              Quote: Professor
              French thermal imager on the T-72


              The T-90A has its own Agave. In connection with the consequences of the 90s, the French began to put on the modernized 72s.

              Quote: Professor
              automatic charging also a french invention


              Yeah. L.N. Kartsev and Venediktov V.N. sat, and the French “spied,” along with A. A. Morozov. laughing

              Quote: Professor
              English word "tank"


              Well, he would have been called "military all-terrain vehicle", a Russian phrase. So what???!!!
              Would the essence of this change?
              1. yehat 14 November 2014 19: 00 New
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                Quote: wanderer_032
                KV-1 is completely Russian development, in all respects.

                I'm afraid you're not quite right here. Kv-1 is a product of the development of multi-turret technology, which ours began to create based on the English multi-turret. If it weren’t, there would be no developments on the platform on the basis of which Kv-1 was created.
            3. Victor-M 12 November 2014 23: 47 New
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              Quote: Professor
              The English word is “tank”, the French layout of modern Russian tanks, the same French thermal imager on the T-72, automatic charging device also the French invention, the American T-34 suspension ... Continue?


              English word "tank"


              This is the most important thing in the tank. "Partners" in the mouth. laughing

              the French layout of modern Russian tanks, the same French thermal imager on the T-72


              And the French tanker is not included? Sorry. laughing

              American T-34 suspension


              With a black sheep, even a tuft of wool (in the sense of the Americans). laughing
        2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 27 New
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          Quote: Professor
          What are these? What is in the tank so far non-existent?

          Crew in a separate protected capsule, fully automated loading process

          Quote: Professor
          Crew protection? After all, it is precisely about him.

          Yes, it’s crew protection. Geometry, no arguing against it.


          Quote: Professor
          Hybrid ones are those in which you can’t understand why their fuel consumption is so low.

          Fuel consumption is all right ... But how will this "hybrid" replace armor, that’s what I’m interested in.
          1. Professor 12 November 2014 13: 59 New
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            Quote: Spade
            Crew in a separate protected capsule, fully automated loading process

            While this is all Wishlist. Let's look at this miracle in iron and most importantly in battle. So that it doesn’t turn out that this lacking analogue in the world did not turn out to be a white elephant.

            Quote: Spade
            Yes, it’s crew protection. Geometry, no arguing against it.

            Well, draw us the geometry where the front location of the SU does not save the crew, but even vice versa. I will immediately send it to my sidekick Commander Merkava2 so as not to relax.

            Quote: Spade
            Fuel consumption is all right ... But how will this "hybrid" replace armor, that’s what I’m interested in.

            And who said that "hybridity" will replace the armor? It is about SU and by the way a hybrid and increases survival and stealth. Do you remember? wink
            1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 15: 22 New
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              Quote: Professor
              While this is all Wishlist. Let's look at this miracle in iron

              Are you still hoping for an uninhabited tower?


              Quote: Professor
              And who said that "hybridity" will replace the armor?

              Well, how can a "hybrid car" replace a tank? What will provide her with passive protection against weapons?

              Quote: Professor
              Well, draw us the geometry where the front location of the SU does not save the crew, but even vice versa.
              1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 16: 15 New
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                "Well, draw us the geometry where the forward position of the SU does not save the crew, but even vice versa."

                In addition, the location of the MTO in front is disadvantageous in terms of weight distribution. You have to either reduce the frontal reservation, or move the tower back.
              2. Professor 12 November 2014 16: 25 New
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                Quote: Spade
                Are you still hoping for an uninhabited tower?

                Did I write about an uninhabited tower? IMHO, when the ammunition is detonated in the AZ, it doesn’t matter if the tower is inhabited or not, whether the crew is in an armored capsule or not, they are already 200.

                Quote: Spade
                Well, how can a "hybrid car" replace a tank? What will provide her with passive protection against weapons?

                I'm talking about a hybrid SU, not a hypothetical "hybrid car." Catch the difference?

                Well? The engine does not cover the crew? Does not serve as an additional obstacle to crowbars and kuma?

                Quote: Tommygun
                In addition, the location of the MTO in front is disadvantageous in terms of weight distribution. You have to either reduce the frontal reservation, or move the tower back.

                And when the tower moves backwards, does disaster happen? wink
                1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 16: 31 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  Quote: Spade
                  Are you still hoping for an uninhabited tower?

                  Did I write about an uninhabited tower? IMHO, when the ammunition is detonated in the AZ, it doesn’t matter if the tower is inhabited or not, whether the crew is in an armored capsule or not, they are already 200.

                  Why then on the western samples are used kick panels?

                  Quote: Spade
                  Well, how can a "hybrid car" replace a tank? What will provide her with passive protection against weapons?

                  I'm talking about a hybrid SU, not a hypothetical "hybrid car." Catch the difference?

                  Agree

                  Well? The engine does not cover the crew? Does not serve as an additional obstacle to crowbars and kuma?



                  Quote: Tommygun
                  In addition, the location of the MTO in front is disadvantageous in terms of weight distribution. You have to either reduce the frontal reservation, or move the tower back.

                  And when the tower moves backwards, does disaster happen? wink


                  When moving the tower backward, difficulties in viewing appear.
                  1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 16: 43 New
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                    Quote: Tommygun
                    When moving the tower backward, difficulties in viewing appear.

                    Rather, it requires an increase in the height of the line of fire. And as a result, the height of the machine.
                  2. Professor 12 November 2014 21: 12 New
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                    Quote: Tommygun
                    When moving the tower backward, difficulties in viewing appear.

                    What nonsense are you talking about. Were you in Merkava? wink
                    1. Tommygun 13 November 2014 00: 01 New
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                      God has mercy!
                2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 16: 40 New
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                  Quote: Professor
                  IMHO, when the ammunition is detonated in the AZ, it doesn’t matter if the tower is inhabited or not, whether the crew is sitting in an armored capsule or not, they are already the 200th.

                  Not a fact.


                  Quote: Professor
                  I'm talking about a hybrid SU, not a hypothetical "hybrid car." Catch the difference?


                  Quote: Professor
                  either completely stop the production of tanks in view of their futility, or are working on the creation of hybrid armored vehicles.


                  No, it’s about a hypothetical “hybrid car” that should replace the tank. It’s not clear how.

                  Quote: Professor
                  Well? The engine does not cover the crew? Does not serve as an additional obstacle to crowbars and kuma?

                  And what better protects the engine or frontal armor?
                  1. Professor 12 November 2014 21: 15 New
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                    Quote: Spade
                    Not a fact.

                    A reasoned and detailed answer. good

                    Quote: Spade
                    No, it’s about a hypothetical “hybrid car” that should replace the tank. It’s not clear how.

                    No. I'm talking about hybrid SU and nothing more.

                    Quote: Spade
                    And what better protects the engine or frontal armor?

                    Oh yes. I completely forgot. In Merkava, for example, there is no frontal armor, they rely on the engine. wassat
                    1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 21: 37 New
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                      Quote: Professor
                      A reasoned and detailed answer.

                      Do you think yours is justified?


                      Quote: Professor
                      No. I'm talking about hybrid SU and nothing more.

                      To make the device heavier? BME from BAE Systems with hybrid SU weighs 63,5 tons

                      Quote: Professor
                      Oh yes. I completely forgot. In Merkava, for example, there is no frontal armor, they rely on the engine

                      I drew a drawing for you. It seems quite affordable: the frontal does not cover all crew members in the capsule when the engine is located in the nose of the car. They are covered only by the engine.

                      A larger drawing is needed?
                      1. Professor 12 November 2014 21: 59 New
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                        Quote: Spade
                        Do you think yours is justified?

                        Quite. When detonating an ammunition crew not tenants. Let me put you a couple of videos where the ammunition detonates and, accordingly, the tankers appear before the prophet, and you tell us heartbreaking stories how the soldiers managed to survive under such circumstances?

                        Quote: Spade
                        To make the device heavier? BME from BAE Systems with hybrid SU weighs 63,5 tons

                        Toto, I’ll see it. The Toyota Prius weighs 10 tons, the American military vehicles with a hybrid SU in general, so under 200 tons. wassat

                        Quote: Spade
                        A larger drawing is needed?

                        Of course you need. And it turns out that the closer to the frontal armor the more protected, well, and if a fighter in general in the stern of the tank behind the frontal armor, the engine and a bunch of all sorts of rubbish, then he immediately khan. For comparison, you would better show us a tank in the context with frontal armor, SU and then on the list. By the way, how does Kuma feel after meeting with frontal armor and engine? She, after all, doesn’t like heterogeneity. They say some generally fuel tanks around the perimeter of the car "smeared", because the godfather is not a tenant in the liquid ... wink
                      2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 22: 28 New
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                        Quote: Professor
                        Quite. When detonating an ammunition crew not tenants.

                        To avoid detonation, it is necessary to prevent ignition of charges. And here the scheme with an isolated fighting compartment provides a huge advantage - no need to look back at the weak link-crew. Extinguishing media that actively absorb oxygen. Compounds that cool unburned charges (for example, explosive atomization of liquid nitrogen). Systems spraying extinguishing media under high pressure or explosion

                        Quote: Professor
                        Toto I will destroy Toyota Prius

                        Toyota Prius ... Electric motor power 82 horses, traction battery weight 31 kg. And we need a capacity of 1500 horses ... A battery of half a ton?

                        Quote: Professor
                        Of course you need.

                        Click-through increases. But I can lay out in a larger size

                        Quote: Professor
                        And it turns out the closer to the frontal armor the more protected

                        Exactly! Because armor protects better than a cast aluminum engine. Especially from BPS. Which engine will only help by creating more secondary debris.

                        Quote: Professor
                        By the way, how does Kuma feel after meeting with frontal armor and engine?

                        In the sense of a "cumulative stream"? No worse than when passing through combined armor. I hope the Merkava tower is not being reserved for engine parts?
                      3. Professor 13 November 2014 12: 19 New
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                        To prevent detonation, it is necessary to prevent ignition of charges ...

                        Theory, the whole theory. In practice, however, detonation (when it occurs) is in most cases the cause of the death of the crew and the loss of the car. And we are talking about detonation and its consequences. And the fact that the fire extinguishing system should be at the appropriate level is a common truth.

                        Toyota Prius ... Electric motor power 82 horses, traction battery weight 31 kg. And we need a capacity of 1500 horses ... A battery of half a ton?

                        The fact, however, is that it does not weigh 2 times more than its classmates, but at the same time it perfectly performs the same tasks with less fuel consumption. The same story with American military vehicles weighs the same, but they eat less and do not shine like a Christmas tree in a thermal imager.

                        Exactly! Because armor protects better than a cast aluminum engine. Especially from BPS. Which engine will only help by creating more secondary debris.

                        With all due respect (and there is one), you write nonsense. According to your picture, the sides are made of cardboard. Once again I ask, show the tank in the context exactly along the supposed line of penetration (after all, the board in your picture will not penetrate normally) and make sure what is the thickness of the armor there. And please, don’t be modestly silent about the fact that the frontal position of the engine also has the tank’s frontal armor.

                        In the sense of a "cumulative stream"? No worse than when passing through combined armor. I hope the Merkava tower is not being reserved for engine parts?

                        Worse and much worse. Theoretically, this was proved by academician Lavrentyev 60 years ago. | In practice, this has been proven repeatedly. Therefore, Kuma does not like heterogeneities and they set it apart by spaced armor and all sorts of sandwiches such as combined armor. She especially does not like liquids. And here she is also substituted with an engine! And the tower, by the way, has nothing to do with it.

                        Nonetheless. Forward or backward arrangement of MTO it does not matter today at all. 3rd generation ATGMs (Javelin, Spike) hit the tank from above, and not in the forehead. Some bourgeois ATGMs of the second generation (TOU, Bill) flying over the tank hit the roof with an impact core. The frontal armor of the tank is monopenisual. Air-based ATGMs such as Helfire and Mauritius also hit from above laughing at the combined frontal armor. Total- not a tenant tank today on the battlefield.
                3. bmv04636 12 November 2014 21: 52 New
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                  oh yes the professor, just in the event of a hit, is more likely to cause engine failure resulting in the immobilization of a wonderful mark. I am flocking as beautiful as a poplar on Plyushchikha.
            2. Albert1988 12 November 2014 17: 46 New
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              Quote: Professor
              Did I write about an uninhabited tower? IMHO, when the ammunition is detonated in the AZ, it doesn’t matter if the tower is inhabited or not, whether the crew is in an armored capsule or not, they are already 200.

              But what about the American Abrams and German leopards with Frank Leclercans, and the same merkava? How are they placed there ammunition? What kind of knocked-out panels in the roof of the tower above the warhead? And why is the crew’s room separate from the combat station? And then about AZ - the same lekler also has AZ, only the conveyor type, and not the carousel like ours.
              So, dear Professor, you are an intelligent and educated person! Therefore, I sincerely ask you - quit doing cheap trolling!
              1. Professor 12 November 2014 21: 17 New
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                Quote: Albert1988
                But what about the American Abrams and German leopards with Frank Leclercans, and the same merkava?

                Only for some reason, flying towers are mostly part of teshes. Do not explain why? wink
                1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 21: 37 New
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                  Because the towers are light.
                  1. Professor 12 November 2014 22: 00 New
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                    Quote: Spade
                    Because the towers are light.

                    Of course, light, lighter than air. So they fly. laughing
                  2. Lopatov 12 November 2014 22: 34 New
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                    T-72 tower is almost twice as light empty towers of "Abrams". 11.5 vs 20.9
                  3. Professor 13 November 2014 12: 22 New
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                    Quote: Spade
                    T-72 tower is almost twice as light empty towers of "Abrams". 11.5 vs 20.9

                    ... and therefore it blows the wind? wink
                  4. yehat 14 November 2014 18: 45 New
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                    do not engage in demagogy
                    Soviet tank school in the framework of the requirements for MBT was very limited both in mass and in the equipment of the tank. To create a tank equal to another, but heavier, is unrealistic with equal technology.
          2. Albert1988 13 November 2014 12: 56 New
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            Quote: Professor
            Only for some reason, flying towers are mostly part of teshes. Do not explain why?

            Dear Professor! Do not go aside! you said
            Quote: Professor
            IMHO, when the ammunition is detonated in the AZ, it doesn’t matter if the tower is inhabited or not, whether the crew is sitting in an armored capsule or not, they are already the 200th.

            That is, you meant that even if the ammunition explodes in an NOT inhabited tower, the crew will die even when sitting in a completely separated capsule from it.
            The question immediately arises - HOW then the crews of Abrams, leopards, etc. survive. when the ammunition detonates, if it is located in the same tower. just behind the armored partition? Do you really think that the armored capsule, which is hidden in the hull and very well protected in this case, will be pierced by the detonation of the ammunition?
            And then - a flying tower - this is only subject to a carousel automatic charging, and why Armata can’t have a conveyor-type AZ, like the same Leclerc located in the aft niche of the tower, which is equipped with embossed panels? After all, judge for yourself - the survival of the crew is of course the main thing, but it would be nice to keep the tank as safe as possible, and if the tower went out, the tank is still lost and cannot be repaired even if the crew survived.
            1. Professor 13 November 2014 15: 02 New
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              Quote: Albert1988
              That is, you meant that even if the ammunition explodes in an NOT inhabited tower, the crew will die even when sitting in a completely separated capsule from it.

              Yes, it will die with a high probability.

              Quote: Albert1988
              The question immediately arises - HOW then the crews of Abrams, leopards, etc. survive. when the ammunition detonates, if it is located in the same tower. just behind the armored partition?

              Does not survive. Detonation of ammunition leads to their death. And no armored partition saves them.

              Quote: Albert1988
              Do you really think that the armored capsule, which is hidden in the hull and very well protected in this case, will be pierced by the detonation of the ammunition?

              As a child, I dabbled with trawl sabers and saw what only 100 grams of TNT were capable of. How much TNT in the combat unit, and how many charges? What is the distance to the armored capsule? How is she covered from above?

              Quote: Albert1988
              After all, judge for yourself - the survival of the crew is of course the main thing, but it would be nice to keep the tank as safe as possible, and if the tower went out, the tank is still lost and cannot be repaired even if the crew survived.

              Who needs a tank with a dead crew? To the enemy?
            2. Albert1988 13 November 2014 16: 13 New
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              Quote: Professor
              Does not survive. Detonation of ammunition leads to their death. And no armored partition saves them.

              Please give a link to this data, because on the Internet I found diametrically opposite information.
              Quote: Professor
              What is the distance to the armored capsule? How is she covered from above?

              an armored capsule for that and an armored capsule that is perfectly covered on all sides - this is what its main "chip" was indicated, this time, and about how much distance you can find in Google “Object195” or “T-95” there are not very high-quality photographs of this car, including a side projection. Well, the quality is not very good, but you can roughly determine the placement of the capsule - in front of the tower, and now if the ammunition is located in the aft niche of the tower ...
            3. Professor 13 November 2014 19: 40 New
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              Quote: Albert1988
              Please give a link to this data, because on the Internet I found diametrically opposite information.

              Could you find such information, it is not published on the Internet.

              Quote: Albert1988
              and now if the ammunition is located in the aft niche of the tower ...

              Multiply 40 shells by the number of explosives in some of them and 40 charges ... not the tenants are tankers. It can and will save from the fire (in other tanks and without a partition, the fire extinguishing system saves), and detonation is the end.

              Quote: Albert1988
              the detonation crew will remain remarkably alive)

              In theory, but in practice, wait and see.
          3. Albert1988 13 November 2014 16: 15 New
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            Or else, pay attention to the image on the right, if the crew is in an armored capsule in front of the tower, and the ammunition is placed in a lump niche of the tower with knocked out panels, then the crew will remain remarkably alive during detonation)
        3. voyaka uh 13 November 2014 18: 55 New
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          In Merkava, each shell is stored in lightly armored
          fireproof casing. Therefore, when hit
          kumm. only one jet or disc inside the tank lights up
          a shell. The fire spreads slowly and the crew manages to leave
          tank through the large back door and the hatch of the tower.
          In Abrams, the problem is solved differently: shells are stored in a separate
          from the fighting compartment aft niche, heads back.
          When detonating, they fly out in the opposite direction from the tower.
          Each method has its drawbacks: in Merkava, the loader
          loses time to extract the projectile, and in Abrams this stern
          the niche is vulnerable to shelling from the side or when turning the turret of the tank.
        4. Albert1988 13 November 2014 19: 37 New
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          Actually, you described what the Professor was supposed to say here, and it must be added that as a result of these measures, when the detonation of the ammunition is detonated, the crew remains alive with a great, directly huge probability, and if at the same time it will also be sitting in an armored capsule, isolated from the tower, the probability of its survival will increase even more.
        5. Professor 13 November 2014 21: 02 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          Actually, you described what the Professor was supposed to say here, and it must be added that as a result of these measures, when the detonation of the ammunition is detonated, the crew remains alive with a great, directly huge probability, and if at the same time it will also be sitting in an armored capsule, isolated from the tower, the probability of its survival will increase even more.

          Show us a photo of the tank with the detonation of the ammunition in which the crew survived.
        6. Albert1988 14 November 2014 01: 11 New
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          Quote: Professor
          Show us a photo of the tank with the detonation of the ammunition in which the crew survived.

          Of course, I don’t like answering a question with a question, but you also didn’t bring a single photograph, say some American abrams in Iraq or Afghanistan, from which the ammunition detonated and the crew died ...
        7. voyaka uh 14 November 2014 02: 14 New
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          In Iraq, the loss of Abrams crews was very small.
          Out of 28 irretrievably lost in battles (with partisans) Abrams - only a dozen
          tankmen killed. About the same amount - they were shot after they left
          wrecked tank.
          In Lebanon, there was one case of detonation of BC Merkava after breaking
          ATGM armor in the rear of the hull, but the crew managed to leave the tank, the loader died.
          In another case of penetration, the crew died from carbon monoxide (3 of 4)
          in case of fire - do not wear gas masks.
        8. Professor 14 November 2014 08: 08 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          Of course, I do not like to answer a question with a question, but you also did not bring a single photograph, say, of an American abrams in Iraq or Afghanistan, from whom the ammunition detonated and the crew died.

          please


        9. Albert1988 14 November 2014 12: 37 New
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          And are you sure that these tanks died precisely from the detonation of the ammunition, and not from the blasting of the 30 colograms of landmines on a land mine, especially the abrasha in the first two photos, and then pay attention to the above comment voyaka uh - the main statistic! Even if, in principle, the crew may die during the detonation of the ammunition in the same abrams, then most importantly, what is the probability of this? If we exaggerate out of 10 cases of detonation of an ammunition shell — only, say, in the 1st crew the crew dies completely, and, say, in another 2 people die, for example, 1, this indicates that the system of measures adopted in this case works , and this is when the crew is sitting in the tower!
          And on the “arm” he will sit in a well-protected capsule, separated from the tower by powerful protection, and besides, no one has yet said that the AZ of such a machine will be a carousel - that is, located inside the tower, even if it is uninhabited. After all, as I wrote earlier, a knocked out tower is even uninhabited and with a live crew it still means the irretrievable loss of the tank itself.
          So if you pay attention to the pictures of “Object195” cited in my comments - and the armata is made on its basis - you can just figure it out by eye - if you place the combat unit in the aft niche, then, given the placement of the crew in the capsule, its survival will be further enhanced. ..
        10. Professor 14 November 2014 18: 05 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          Are you sure that these tanks died precisely from the detonation of the ammunition, and not from the detonation of commercials 30

          Those that were on land mines I didn’t work out. The merkava in the photo was blown up by a land mine and there it detonated the ammunition. Result on the face.


          Quote: Albert1988
          Even if, in principle, the crew may die during the detonation of the ammunition in the same abrams, then most importantly, what is the probability of this?

          Tired of chatter. Let's get statistics to the studio. Okay, at least one example where the crew survived the detonation of the ammunition.
        11. Albert1988 14 November 2014 22: 02 New
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          Sorry, but I wanted to ask you the same thing). After all, you say that the crew perishes when the ammunition detonates, but do not give any statistics on this subject yourself).
        12. Professor 15 November 2014 07: 49 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          Sorry, but I wanted to ask you the same thing). After all, you say that the crew perishes when the ammunition detonates, but do not give any statistics on this subject yourself).

          CEP, in the explosion of even one OFS (for example), the entire crew is within the radius of guaranteed destruction. Now explain to us how they will survive?
        13. Albert1988 15 November 2014 12: 57 New
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          Dear Prof., there are things that at first glance seem obvious, but if you look at the statistics, it may turn out that everything is different, or it doesn’t occur / happen as often as it seems at first glance, etc. I met this myself working with their mutants, while analyzing their samples. So if you want to prove your full truth, provide statistics or a better link to them, because the phrase
          Quote: Professor
          CEP, in the explosion of even one OFS (for example), the entire crew is within the radius of guaranteed destruction. Now explain to us how they will survive?

          it is only an expression of your opinion, I also expressed my opinion, you argued that it was incorrect, but at the same time you didn’t provide any reliable evidence that this is so).
          In general, this discussion reminds me of our last discussion with you about the Assad "shell" that supposedly could not bring down Israeli air-to-surface missiles but there was no evidence that the shell was in the area at all, and this time too - you said A, I told B, you said that B is not right, but you didn’t give evidence).
        14. Professor 15 November 2014 14: 52 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          So if you want to prove your full truth, provide statistics or better link to them

          I will quote right after you (by name, date and circumstances). You bring at least one !!! the case where the crew survived during detonation of the ammunition.
        15. Albert1988 15 November 2014 18: 59 New
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          And what is it right after me? Incidentally, an interesting position is yours) Accuse someone of "thrashing", but do not bring anything ...
        16. Professor 15 November 2014 19: 33 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          And what is it right after me? Incidentally, an interesting position is yours) Accuse someone of "thrashing", but do not bring anything ...

          Because it’s obvious things to prove it is a waste of time. Nevertheless, I have a link ready for you. I’ll share how you tell us about the surviving crew ...
        17. Albert1988 15 November 2014 19: 55 New
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          If the link is ready, then please discard it, I will be grateful, since I have met the opposite information, here I am looking for a wonderful article that examined every case of the loss of the arams by amers in Iraq - the opposite was stated to your statements there.
        18. Albert1988 15 November 2014 20: 22 New
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          Thank you for the link))
        19. Albert1988 16 November 2014 00: 09 New
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          I studied the link you provided, a lot of interesting information, BUT! There is such a baaaalshoooe BUT! It says about detonation of ammunition only casually and only in two places, the first:
          “As for the last, fourth paragraph, it did take place, but in any case we are talking about several cars that were blown up by powerful landmines or hit by ATGMs, followed by detonation of ammunition."
          This is the second:
          "Apparently, the tanks hit by ATGMs on August 9 and 12 detonated ammunition. Perhaps in this regard, some reports say not only about ATGMs, but also about a landmine. "
          That is, the author does not provide specific data about that. that for all tanks in which the ammunition detonated, the crew died in full or for the most part, if we assume that the tanks that are suspected of being detonated by a high-explosive mine and whose crew died were blown up not by a high-explosive, but as a result of detonation of the ammunition shell, then the conclusions you can do it, but they will be purely speculative, since there is no exact data.
          This is the first big point. The second one. How is the combat station in Merkava? I quote the above voyaka uh:
          Quote: voyaka uh
          In Merkava, each shell is stored in lightly armored
          fireproof casing. Therefore, when hit
          kumm. only one jet or disc inside the tank lights up
          a shell. The fire spreads slowly and the crew manages to leave
          tank through the large back door and the hatch of the tower.
          In Abrams, the problem is solved differently: shells are stored in a separate
          from the fighting compartment aft niche, heads back.
          When detonating, they fly out in the opposite direction from the tower.

          That is, in Abrams, the isolation of the ammunition load from the crew compartment is an order of magnitude higher than that of Merkava, and you need to dance from it, then the abrams you brought in, which in the photo, is apparently one of two confirmed cases of the tower’s collapse in this vehicle, because they are known only two are reliably and one of them, at least - a detonation at a high-explosive mine, and of course there is ammunition and everything that could detonate.
          Therefore, to clarify the situation, I’m looking for norms of information on abrams in Iraq, I’ll find and share the links, then it will be possible to draw some conclusions on existing cars and build some hypotheses (certainly speculative) on possible measures to protect the crew from detonation of BC in Armata) .
        20. Professor 16 November 2014 08: 58 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          I studied the link you provided, a lot of interesting information, BUT! There is such a baaaalshoooe BUT!

          We will discuss this “BUT” when you give at least one case in which the crew survived after the detonation of the ammunition. Until I see the time I will not waste time discussing a spherical horse in a vacuum. Good luck. hi
        21. Albert1988 16 November 2014 12: 19 New
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          Quote: Professor
          I don’t see time to lose on the discussion of a spherical horse in a vacuum.

          I apologize, but this is what you persisted in doing - because you also did not give a single example when it was the detonation of the ammunition that led to the complete death of the crew ... wink
        22. Professor 16 November 2014 12: 29 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          I apologize, but that’s what you persisted in doing - because you also didn’t give a single example when it was the detonation of the ammunition that led to the complete death of the crew.

          For God's sake. Watch and enjoy:
        23. Albert1988 16 November 2014 13: 03 New
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          What does the T-72 have to do with it? If I remember correctly, we were discussing vehicles that have taken measures to protect the crew from fire and / or detonation of the warhead! That is specifically in our case - Abrams and Merkava, Leo and Leclerc were not considered in our discussion.
          Here is the reference
          http://artofwar.ru/editors/p/ponamarchuk_e/text_0300.shtml
          Of course, it is very embarrassing that the author does not cite specific references at the end of his work, but there are some interesting points about detonation of BC, for example, one at the end
          "February 17, 2007 - M1A1, company C of the 2nd Tank Battalion of the 2nd Marine Division
          A patrol consisting of two tanks was fired from a "homemade grenade launcher" in the west of Fallujah. The RKG-3 grenade hit the rear left side of the tower of one Abrams, damaging the auxiliary power unit and allegedly causing "minor damage" to the tank; according to other sources, two grenades were hit, which led to detonation of the ammunition and a fire. All 4 crew members were injured (including 1 lightly).
          In an unofficial list of Abrams losses posted on several online forums, this incident erroneously dates from February 7. "
          That is, there is also no specific information, but - the crew survived, although with a high probability when it was in the tank the detonator detonated,
          that's also interesting
          "August 30, 2005 - M1A2, 1st Squadron of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment
          Blown up on a makeshift explosive device in Tall Afar. There were no dead; no injuries were reported. Fuel ignition, tank destroyed.
          Probably, this particular tank is depicted in the famous photograph of the “Abrams” of the 3rd Regiment, which was blown up by a landmine “in the summer of 2005” (photo dated September 7, that is, a week after this loss). Judging by the photos, the detonation of the ammunition took place. "Here you need to look at the photos in the text - you can clearly see the lack of armored doors, through which the loader actually picks up shells from the aft niche, it seems to be knocked out, but there is clearly not enough information to draw a concrete conclusion.
          By the way, the photograph of the abrams that you allegedly detonated from BC refers according to this source to "October 28, 2003 - M1A2 SEP, company A of the 3rd battalion of the 67th tank regiment of the 4th infantry division
          When performing a non-combat mission, he was blown up on a remotely controlled improvised explosive device in the Baakuba area. According to the surviving gunner, the landmine consisted of two 155-mm shells and 160 pounds of plastic explosives. The tank’s tower was torn down, two crew members were killed (Sergeant Michael Barrera, specialist Isaac Campoy) and one was seriously injured - they were traveling without a loader. It is believed that this is the first case of the loss of "Abrams" after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. "
        24. Professor 16 November 2014 14: 00 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          What does the T-72 have to do with it?

          Why so many words? This is not the first time I’m asking you about an elementary thing: give an example of a surviving crew with a detonating ammunition. I'm waiting.

          PS
          Quote: Albert1988
          M1A2, 1st Squadron of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment

          I especially liked the squadron of the armored cavalry regiment. Do they also have checkers? (rhetorical question) laughing
        25. Albert1988 16 November 2014 17: 09 New
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          Quote: Professor
          give an example of a surviving crew with detonating ammunition. I'm waiting

          I gave a link where there is some information for reflection - there are facts of detonation of the BC, and the crew is lively and healthy, of course there are not enough important details, but only now they are not enough, including and in the data you provided.
          Quote: Professor
          I especially liked the squadron of the armored cavalry regiment. Do they also have checkers?

          Well, that's yankee laughing They are fan of such pathos names! One "Patton Armored Cavalry" which is worth)))
        26. Professor 16 November 2014 20: 26 New
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          Quote: Albert1988
          I gave a link where there is some information for reflection - there are facts of detonation of the BC, and the crew is lively and healthy, of course there are not enough important details, but only now they are not enough, including and in the data you provided.

          There are no facts there. You would have sent me to google. I’m asking you for the last time: give an example (one specific example) where the crew in the tank (and not in the dining room) survived when the ammunition was detonated in the tank. One, only one. I beg on my knees.
        27. Albert1988 16 November 2014 20: 59 New
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          You are my God! I, too, will now beg you! I, too, can take your position and still say that by the link that I have sent, there are still no facts, well, absolutely nothing!

          But seriously, this is strange, you bring information of the same level and quality as I do, and at the same time criticize me for not giving specifics, you don’t have it either, and you don’t have me either, anyway, they sent to google)))
          From this I conclude that you still don’t debate, and so, very trollly, subtly troll ...
        28. Professor 16 November 2014 21: 26 New
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          All. As promised, I will not feed you anymore. It is impossible to get any information from you because of its complete lack and fabrications such as “I met information on the Internet, but now I can’t find it” or “my friend started developing Iskander and he told me”. On the road again, the video of the detonation of the ammunition where everyone "survived". Learn the materiel.
        29. Albert1988 16 November 2014 21: 36 New
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          Professor, tell me - HOW is the BK located in the T-72 and HOW is it located in Abrams? And then - I write about the Abrams, then what does the T-72 have to do with it? These are completely different cars ...
          And here’s the last question: if you think that I’m wrong and just inventing something, then what you won’t give me specifically - the facts of how the BC detonated in Abrams and as a result the crew in the fighting compartment died, and then from you, too, no facts, except well, very indirect information can not be obtained, alas request
  • Albert1988 16 November 2014 13: 03 New
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    Thus, I can conclude that in any case, information, both confirming and refuting the crew’s death during detonation of an AB in Abrams, is not enough for clear conclusions, statistics are completely absent, at least in open sources, overseas warriors secret everything, such things. so in any case, all discussions on this subject are speculative in nature, although it can be assumed that the Abramsov, who have a serious isolation of the crew from the BC, the death of this crew from the detonation of the BC is not one hundred percent.
    As for our tanks - this is a long parable in the languages ​​in terms of crew survival in them, only on the T-90MS some timid attempts were made to isolate shells that are not in the AZ, taking them out of the crew into the box behind the tower, and increased (according to the manufacturer) protection of the AZ itself, although I definitely can’t say how.
    What will happen on Armata - we'll wait until the month of May, and it's not a fact that it will be there in the final version - the modular design suggests the possibility of changing these same modules, because the main feature of Armata is not "wunderwaffle", but the ability to build on it a large number of heavy tracked vehicles and great modernization potential hi
  • Bugor 18 November 2014 00: 41 New
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    It seems not the T-72, but without the towers the tanks are ... Strange, no? Gygygs ...
  • cherina
    cherina 13 November 2014 03: 39 New
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    yes, professor agrees with you, I can also make such tanks in Photoshop so much that one is more beautiful than the other. ru / blog / 2014-08-31-14351 it seemed interesting to me
  • Victor-M 12 November 2014 23: 55 New
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    Quote: Professor
    While this is all Wishlist. Let's look at this miracle in iron and most importantly in battle. So that it doesn’t turn out that this lacking analogue in the world did not turn out to be a white elephant.


    How is Merkava? By the way, it’s interesting, is it a completely Israeli “battle cart” (in English, “tank”), or is it still partly, but “Professor”? wink laughing
  • xan
    xan 12 November 2014 15: 11 New
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    Quote: Professor
    Hybrid ones are those in which you can’t understand why their fuel consumption is so low.

    This is the most important thing for the tank - low fuel consumption. All advanced tank builders think about it.
    Well done, professor.
    1. Professor 12 November 2014 16: 11 New
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      Quote: xan
      This is the most important thing for the tank - low fuel consumption. All advanced tank builders think about it.
      Well done, professor.

      Before you scribble it, you would read that I write further about hybrids there ... wink
    2. Tommygun 12 November 2014 16: 17 New
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      Low fuel consumption = smaller tanks with the same design range = lower storage volume = less weight / better security.
  • Kvazar 12 November 2014 15: 11 New
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    Yes, as an example, a modification of the Leo A7 + (actually testing the technology of tanks of the next generation). Well, K2 black panther (living tank is the most expensive and most modern) can be added.
    Suddenly Merkava 4M. Since 2012, Israel has been developing Merkava 5 in its entirety.
    1. Professor 12 November 2014 16: 12 New
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      Quote: Kvazar
      Since 2012, Israel has been developing Merkava 5 in its entirety.

      Not working out.
  • Lopatov 12 November 2014 10: 42 New
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    Quote: Professor
    Again not having analogues in the world.

    Does anyone already have such cars?

    Quote: Professor
    Is it possible to transfer the SU from the stern to the nose?

    It rather reduces protection.


    Quote: Professor
    Just not in the wake, but in a different direction altogether, either completely stop the production of tanks in view of their futility, or work on the creation of hybrid armored vehicles.

    Hybrid? What is it like? Type of Ukrainian project "armored car for drap?
  • bmv04636 12 November 2014 11: 50 New
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    No, they will install titanium armor, and they also plan an electric transmission like on Krymsk, which allows you to create a combat robot without a crew. The development of a new thermoelectrochemical artillery installation is also ongoing.
    1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 56 New
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      Quote: bmv04636
      The development of a new thermoelectrochemical artillery installation is also ongoing.

      She is already there, at the Coalition. You can, of course, apply it to the tank, but there are no special advantages. A small increase in the initial speed and greater safety of charges due to the lack of a capsule sleeve.
  • Kvazar 12 November 2014 15: 06 New
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    1. Capsule crew protection. Uninhabited combat module. Most likely "transparent armor"
    2. Perhaps because gives a gain in the armored volume for the crew and systems.
    3. They have been standing on the T90 of the latest versions for a long time (there most likely a new one under 1500hp of the Khrebnik)
    4. Increased ergonomics. It’s hard to fight in T72 for more than 3 hours.
    5. It is better to sit in an isolated combat module. Than on shells.
    6. Delirium which is useless to swap
  • Bogranz 12 November 2014 10: 49 New
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    Well ... wait for the Parade, we will see the appearance of the new tank, but ... it is unlikely that after that its characteristics will become public. In the best case, the outer parts of some devices will raise questions, and even the caliber of the gun can be determined visually. So, by and large - expecting only a "picture" and the fact that the commentator will be allowed to read. And they will give him a little.
  • Bayonet 12 November 2014 10: 52 New
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    “Russia will demonstrate that we are a great tank power, that we are moving ahead, and everyone is following, as it were,”
    Yeah ... Especially impressed with "HOW".
  • lonovila 12 November 2014 10: 52 New
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    - Already tired of writing ... -Every time I write about this ...
    -That is the real, already created Black Eagle tank (T-95) ... -Yes 10 already exists as it exists ... -It was already demonstrated in Omsk ten years ago ... -And it was even recognized as the best foreign specialist in the world...
    -There, many overly "ridiculous" and overly "competent" mercilessly "minuscule" me .., they intensely broadcast about "Armata" and "puffed out their cheeks" to show what kind of "specialists" they are, but "things" are still there. ..
    -Even if the “Black Eagle” had a number of shortcomings, then in ten years they could be eliminated and “modified” by this T-95 tank ... and put into production in order to equip them with the Russian army ...
    - But ... - they began to "reinvent the wheel" with some mythical "Armata" ... -And now they "invent" it for many years ...
    -The result is "all the same" ...
    1. TiGRoO 12 November 2014 12: 45 New
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      You are wrong, 1) at that time (the time of the black eagle) the leadership could not and did not want a new MBT. 2) the t-95 was with the workings of the "black eagle", but it was too expensive + new ammunition to its caliber at that time we could not pull (expensive and long). 3) ARMATA is modular (not only a tank), uses the work from the black eagle and t-95, but more simplified (in terms of weapons), and now there is money and resources for the production of a new MBT.
    2. Kvazar 12 November 2014 15: 15 New
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      Black Eagle (vol.640) and vol. 195 (T95) These are different cars. T195 was never shown and his pictures on the internet leaked our trophies from the Cuban. For which they were lustrated)))
    3. Kair501 15 November 2014 09: 34 New
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      several times here already, I and other forum participants wrote that t 95 (vol. 195) and the black eagle (vol. 640) are completely different machines. The black eagle is just a deep modernization of t 80 as t 90 cm no more. so study the mat part and then write.
  • lonovila 12 November 2014 11: 28 New
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    -Yes ... and more on this topic ... -For especially "ridiculous" and "giggling" minus lovers ...
    - About two months ago, on one of the Russian TV channels, an “episode with Chubais” was shown ... -What is Chubais — it’s not a secret for anyone ... -A big “secret” is the loss of trillions of rubles, which Russia is so recklessly "entrusted" to Chubais in order to modernize the Russian energy sector, and then advance the Russian economy in the "field" of the development and implementation of nanotechnology ...
    - The results of all this "his activity" ... - are also known to everyone ...
    -But I want to focus on the very “report” that was shown on TV two months ago ...
    -There was shown a giant hangar (maybe it was some kind of storehouse from which all the items were removed, maybe it was a huge covered market from which temporarily remove all the junk merchants, all the various "barbecue", all the migrant workers, etc. ...) ... -Well, so ... -shown as some kind of "pseudo commission" and Chubais, dressed in some kind of protective hoodies, paced all over this emptiness ...
    -And Chubais himself in all seriousness told about the fact that some devices would supposedly be located here, and some equipment would be located there, and there would be some kind of assembly and assembly of “something” .. .
    - And the "commission" listened to all this and only "nodded its head" in unison .... -The fairy tale about the "naked king" was demonstrated ...
    -Here, it seems that about “Armata” we will soon see such a “Chubais tale” too ...
  • Libra 12 November 2014 11: 31 New
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    tear a blanket under the drum roll, and there .... the fur is 20 meters high: D
    Where is the tank ??
    -ey driver transform)
  • LM66 12 November 2014 11: 34 New
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    +5
    A little off topic to ridicule
    - How are you?
    “Things are like an old tank!”
    The barrel is worth it, but there’s no one to fight with.
  • sv68 12 November 2014 12: 22 New
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    the water is wet and in the sky at the beginning, in good weather, stars are visible, also a lot of information! There’s nothing to do with the article — an empty shake of air — set an honestly earned minus.
  • korjik
    korjik 12 November 2014 12: 27 New
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    Nobody needs tanks anymore, the next war is the war of the oligarchs with their peoples. For this they need armored personnel carriers, tracked or wheeled. Already now, in Russia, explosives are more numerous in number than linear divisions. Other countries are doing the same.
    1. Lopatov 12 November 2014 12: 35 New
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      Quote: korjik
      Already now, in Russia there are more explosives in number than linear divisions.

      Is it possible in more detail, with numbers?
      1. korjik
        korjik 12 November 2014 16: 15 New
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        Can! I’m holding data on a piece of paper in front of the monitor, read it!
  • NEXUS 12 November 2014 12: 58 New
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    Quote: lonovila
    - Already tired of writing ... -Every time I write about this ...
    -That is the real, already created Black Eagle tank (T-95) ... -Yes 10 already exists as it exists ... -It was already demonstrated in Omsk ten years ago ... -And it was even recognized as the best foreign specialist in the world...
    -There, many overly "ridiculous" and overly "competent" mercilessly "minuscule" me .., they intensely broadcast about "Armata" and "puffed out their cheeks" to show what kind of "specialists" they are, but "things" are still there. ..
    -Even if the “Black Eagle” had a number of shortcomings, then in ten years they could be eliminated and “modified” by this T-95 tank ... and put into production in order to equip them with the Russian army ...
    - But ... - they began to "reinvent the wheel" with some mythical "Armata" ... -And now they "invent" it for many years ...
    -The result is "all the same" ...

    "Black Eagle" and t-95 are completely different cars, dear. Yes, you are right, 10 years ago, the "black eagle" was the best tank in the world, even the Americans recognized it, knowing how they like to praise their own. BUT ... It was 10 years ago. Now this tank can compete with Merkava and Abrams and Leopard, and tomorrow it will run out of modernization resources and then we will come to the same thing as NOW-TO BUILD A NEW TANK OR A NEW PLATFORM. So why give a chance opponents to catch up with themselves, if you can now make the car a few steps ahead of any patterns?
  • vnord 12 November 2014 13: 14 New
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    a tank with a classic hybrid installation using lithium batteries will not work in Russia. At low temperatures, lithium batteries do not really charge.
    1. Tommygun 12 November 2014 15: 04 New
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      I strongly suggest that the battery will not be on the street))
  • stone 12 November 2014 14: 03 New
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    [So why give opponents a chance to catch up with themselves if it is already possible to make the car several steps ahead of any patterns? [/ Quote]

    That which does not exist cannot be ahead of any patterns by several steps fellow First we can wait for the current samples, and then we will shout about their superiority.
  • NEXUS 12 November 2014 14: 18 New
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    Quote: stone
    That which does not exist cannot be ahead of any samples by several steps. First we can wait for the existing samples, and then we will shout about their superiority.

    if Armata is made taking into account the developments of the “Black Eagle” and T-95, which the West still can’t surpass, then we can already speak of superiority. In addition, the confidence with which our tank builders declare all this, I think not from the finger sucked up.
  • stone 12 November 2014 14: 29 New
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    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: stone
    That which does not exist cannot be ahead of any samples by several steps. First we can wait for the existing samples, and then we will shout about their superiority.

    if Armata is made taking into account the developments of the “Black Eagle” and T-95, which the West still can’t surpass, then we can already speak of superiority. In addition, the confidence with which our tank builders declare all this, I think not from the finger sucked up.


    I say that which does not exist laughing All three in the series are not there yet.
  • kenig1 12 November 2014 14: 31 New
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    V. Khalitov is a generator of random phrases, the BMPT is not in great demand in the foreign market because of the name, now there are even more questions about “Armata”.
  • Lone gunman 12 November 2014 14: 52 New
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    "... This indicator allows you to analyze the capabilities of armored vehicles, integrating a number of its characteristics. With this comparison, the coefficient of the main tank T-72B is taken as a unit. According to calculations, for" Almaty "this indicator reaches 4 ..."
    - seeing is believing...
  • slavik_gross 12 November 2014 15: 01 New
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    Soon we will choke on saliva while reading such articles, I want to see the goods; I also pay loot for it as taxes.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • IAlex 12 November 2014 15: 21 New
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    Where is the tank then?
    1. demon1978 12 November 2014 16: 21 New
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      Quote: IAlex
      Where is the tank then?

      This is a question for Chubais !!!! yes He reduced the tank, and he fell into the cheek !!! request Che, by May 9 promised Nati ??? !! fellow
  • Crang
    Crang 12 November 2014 15: 58 New
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    They promise to show on May 9, 2015. If deceived, they will be hanged by the balls then. The people require a new tank.
    1. psiho117 12 November 2014 17: 23 New
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      And do you still believe? half a year before the show at the parade, the tank has no engine, no gun was selected, not even layouts, only general phrases.

      How correctly people said - public relations.
      I'd like to see live on Armata on May 9, but the pace of development is simply killing.
  • Nonik 12 November 2014 16: 10 New
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    I hope that there will certainly be an active defense system in addition to the usual one. What did they say - an automatic rapid-fire gun for protection against anti-tank missiles?
  • Yarik 12 November 2014 16: 18 New
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    Wheel RU Today, 08:53 ↑
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    Hooray !!! at least something declassified !!!
    Yes garden vegetable that declassified!
    If on the one hand it is claimed that the tank is already undergoing tests, then why will it only get the engine?
    For me, so bullshit is driven, there is nothing yet.
    At the parade, the models rivet.
    Zadolbala already this PR. Do - show, then brag.
    You can minus, but I will not change my opinion.



    Or so ... "the experts came to the conclusion that the creation of the 5th generation tank was futile and announced the beginning of the design development of the 6th generation tank" smile
    1. Massik 12 November 2014 19: 33 New
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      I will support ...
      Where there is a lot of all good things - surely some kind of muck is buried.

      It would be better to start with the minuses (which even the most recognized cars in the world have) and problem areas, and then they tried to feed a bun with butter. Better to be than to seem.
  • xavbek7 12 November 2014 17: 40 New
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    Yes, the tank will work! -Let's have patience!)))
  • viruvalge412ee
    viruvalge412ee 12 November 2014 20: 27 New
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    Criticism adopted. Specialists who discussed the complexity of the issue are recognized as qualified and patriotic. It is ordered that these specialists in full force be delivered by special vehicles to the Sharashka N 2014Armata vagural plant for urgent completion of the project for a period of 5 years without losing the rights and obligations of the builder.
  • polkovnik manuch 12 November 2014 23: 07 New
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    Wait and see !
  • Killout 12 November 2014 23: 24 New
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    Reinforcing armata for so long and so tedious .. Everyone already imagined a child prodigy, but there will be a joke if you get just a modern tank. The words particularly strained me:
    "There are no similar cars in the world yet.. This fifth-generation armored vehicle will not be a revolution in tank building, however, will be a serious step forward.
  • ROMANO 13 November 2014 00: 46 New
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    Quote: voyaka uh
    Merkavs were sometimes ambushed with the off
    engine for 2 days. Therefore, a bio-toilet, and
    apparatus for hot coffee, and a folding bed
    (instead of a number of shelving racks) there were very
    in demand ... smile


    Duc, "Merkava" is not a tank in its pure, classic form. A kind, highly specialized, very special pepelats, in the form of a hybrid of a tank, infantry fighting vehicle, fortress and hotel. +20 tons to T-72 ... T-90, are they worth something?
    1. cherina
      cherina 13 November 2014 03: 17 New
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      Quote: ROMANO
      Duc, "Merkava" is not a tank in its pure, classic form. A kind, highly specialized, very special pepelats, in the form of a hybrid of a tank, infantry fighting vehicle, fortress and hotel. +20 tons to T-72 ... T-90, are they worth something?

      and what’s interesting in your view is to be a tank and what it so offended you a merkava maybe because it’s a really good tank and you are not able to create anything worthy but just rush unreasonably poop from powerlessness, that it is convenient for the crew is only its plus because that our tankers don’t drive tanks like you live in them sometimes they don’t leave them on assignments for weeks, this tank was created by a tanker and for the tankmen General Tal said the tank is the house for his crew and everything should be adapted for it battle and life is the difference and not how you have a mass grave for the crew
  • denkastro 13 November 2014 01: 13 New
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    Nobody has even seen Armata yet, and the Jews are already craping it. Here are envious people.
    1. cherina
      cherina 13 November 2014 02: 52 New
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      Quote: denkastro
      Nobody has even seen Armata yet, and the Jews are already craping it. Here are envious people.

      ah ah ah what are you saying what a terrible people and in Palestine that do nothing in Syria, do not put Putin penniless, Russia is not afraid, and addicted it is something like a tank and ten years so do not appear and they already envy us it’s not clear where you look at the shoigu, you’d better go on a topic about merkava, here your compatriots are trying to get to something, at least our merkava is a cool tank tested in battles and yours is just some kind of computer animation and, apparently, will remain so
  • NEXUS 13 November 2014 09: 54 New
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    Quote: cherina
    Quote: denkastro
    Nobody has even seen Armata yet, and the Jews are already craping it. Here are envious people.

    ah ah ah what are you saying what a terrible people and in Palestine that do nothing in Syria, do not put Putin penniless, Russia is not afraid, and addicted it is something like a tank and ten years so do not appear and they already envy us it’s not clear where you look at the shoigu, you’d better go on a topic about merkava, here your compatriots are trying to get to something, at least our merkava is a cool tank tested in battles and yours is just some kind of computer animation and, apparently, will remain so

    the merkava tank is undeniably good. It is only good for fighting in cities. And it was made just for that. But imagine it in the open spaces of Afghanistan or Iraq, and this good tank turns into a very large and easily destroyed target for infantry and for any other means destruction. And about Almaty, dear to you, I would advise you not to write in boiling water and try to soberly look at things and evaluate them.
    1. cherina
      cherina 13 November 2014 14: 44 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      the merkava tank is undeniably good. It is only good for fighting in cities. And it was made just for that. But imagine it in the open spaces of Afghanistan or Iraq, and this good tank turns into a very large and easily destroyed target for infantry and for any other means destruction. And about Almaty, dear to you, I would advise you not to write in boiling water and try to soberly look at things and evaluate them.

      dear do not repeat the nonsense which is not clear where you heard but about merkava you look where and in what conditions it is used there is a photo on the Internet and dirt and snow and desert so do not for la poplar tell this story to your friends who saw merkava either in the picture either in YouTube, Merkava today is one of the best tanks in the world and I don’t need to tell you right now about how you will ever make a super tank, as far as I can see the last tank thought settled on the t-72 and its other in-depth modifications all, here when you give birth to your tank, which has no analogues, then we’ll see and for now all this is idle talk, our tank goes and shoots and your armata is just a virtual project
      1. denkastro 13 November 2014 17: 03 New
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        And if Merkava is such a good tank, then why is he not at the tank biathlon. Would remove all doubts defeating our old men. Or are all the leading tank-building powers afraid to crap one's pants?
        1. cherina
          cherina 13 November 2014 19: 09 New
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          Quote: denkastro
          And if Merkava is such a good tank, then why is he not at the tank biathlon. Would remove all doubts defeating our old men. Or are all the leading tank-building powers afraid to crap one's pants?

          and what is your tank biathlon like in my opinion some kind of competition in stupidity what criteria of this competition who drives faster or something like this are tanks and not racing cars and the only place where a tank can crap is on the battlefield only and your competition on colorful tanks for your patriots
        2. Professor 13 November 2014 19: 43 New
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          Quote: denkastro
          Or are all the leading tank-building powers afraid to crap one's pants?

          To measure who has more is the lot of adolescents. Israeli tankers have repeatedly proved what they are capable of even on tanks inferior to the enemy.
          1. cherina
            cherina 13 November 2014 19: 53 New
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            Quote: Professor
            To measure who has more is the lot of adolescents. Israeli tankers have repeatedly proved what they are capable of even on tanks inferior to the enemy.

            I completely agree with you I wanted to share one link on the dock the film is called a laboratory, look it seems to me it will be interesting to you http://doskado.ucoz.ru/blog/2014-08-31-14351 I shot one shlimals leftist but the topic is interesting
        3. cherina
          cherina 14 November 2014 08: 55 New
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          Quote: denkastro
          And if Merkava is such a good tank, then why is he not at the tank biathlon. Would remove all doubts defeating our old men. Or all the leading tank-building powers are afraid to crap one's pants

          why are you petty, let's have the winter and summer olympiads with prizes in the form of a golden caterpillar, it’s immediately clear that the Minister of Defense is a firefighter, they are lovers of applied sports, the art of a tank driver and the class of a tank is measured in the fact that I can destroy your T-90 before how will he even understand what happened to him at a distance at which he still cannot detect and classify me, and everything you have is measured only by how he jumps and drives fast, but believe me in modern combat, I have not seen a single tank that left or jumped from the shell
  • denkastro 13 November 2014 22: 05 New
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    To measure who has more is the lot of adolescents
    That is, you all the time here claimed that you have more, and when you were offered to measure yourself, you immediately into the bushes. We are supposedly not like that, not teenagers and all that. Oh, how little faith you have now, gentlemen. I respect the Jews, worthy people, but such empty chimes serve notoriety.
    Quote: Professor
    Israeli tankers have repeatedly proved what they are capable of even on tanks inferior to the enemy.
    And note, I didn’t say anything about Israeli tankers, because I do not know anyone personally. I think that among them there are enough professional and courageous people
    1. Professor 14 November 2014 18: 00 New
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      Quote: denkastro
      That is, you all the time here claimed that you have more

      I never claimed to be more, but those who came to measure always raked to the fullest.

      Quote: denkastro
      I think that among them there are enough professional and courageous people

      We must not think, we must know. Start by exploring your biography. Avigdor Kahalani.
  • NEXUS 13 November 2014 22: 13 New
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    Quote: cherina
    Quote: NEXUS
    the merkava tank is undeniably good. It is only good for fighting in cities. And it was made just for that. But imagine it in the open spaces of Afghanistan or Iraq, and this good tank turns into a very large and easily destroyed target for infantry and for any other means destruction. And about Almaty, dear to you, I would advise you not to write in boiling water and try to soberly look at things and evaluate them.

    dear do not repeat the nonsense which is not clear where you heard but about merkava you look where and in what conditions it is used there is a photo on the Internet and dirt and snow and desert so do not for la poplar tell this story to your friends who saw merkava either in the picture either in YouTube, Merkava today is one of the best tanks in the world and I don’t need to tell you right now about how you will ever make a super tank, as far as I can see the last tank thought settled on the t-72 and its other in-depth modifications all, here when you give birth to your tank, which has no analogues, then we’ll see and for now all this is idle talk, our tank goes and shoots and your armata is just a virtual project

    no, dear, you are talking nonsense! La la poplar is pictured here. I’ll explain for such a short superman ... How long will your vaunted tank live in real battle? And I'm not talking about fighting peasants with reeds ... Your patriotism deserves respect, every sandpiper praises his swamp. But we must say the fact. In the 15 year, he will go to the Armata series, then we'll see who is hu. And now you will sprinkle the best of saliva. It’s not long to wait. t-72 stopped .. So t-90 put against merkava yes to see where the thought t ostanovilas.Vy something stupid loud slogans Do not spread, and then in 15-th year that will have the whole of your ambition, and explains how some reason.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. cherina
      cherina 14 November 2014 07: 53 New
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      no, dear, you are talking nonsense! La la poplar is pictured here. I’ll explain for such a short superman ... How long will your vaunted tank live in real battle? And I'm not talking about fighting peasants with reeds ... Your patriotism deserves respect, every sandpiper praises his swamp. But you have to say the fact. In the 15th year he will go to the Armata series, then we'll see who is hu. And now the best thing is to sprinkle with saliva. There’s not much time to wait. And about the thought that t-72 stopped .. So put the t-90 against the mercans and see where the thought stopped. You don’t scatter with stupid loud slogans, otherwise in the 15th year you will have to explain all this ambition and somehow argue

      Dear MOLDOVAN tankman, stop hysteria, well, the Merkava is the best for today and there’s nothing here if you need to talk about the fact that you are trying to build yourself a Moldavian Guderian, I already understood from your first sentence that the Merkava was built for fighting in the city it’s how it turns out, I advise you to put off everything and start writing a dissertation on the topic of a new philosophy of tank war, I think it will be a bestseller, but you didn’t stop there and continued to burn not childishly, what is your phrase about tank biathlon why should there be a biathlon in general to arrange a tank Olympiad in Sochi with tank dances on ice, tank bobsleigh and, most importantly, tank hockey, where the first place is the golden caterpillar, the second silver, the third bronze, they will also have to be pulled straight on the pedestal only a biathlon, then the more you’re here, your T-90 is generally issued only as a respected standard for tank building and engineering, you forgot to say that your t-90 has not yet participated in one conflict and all your school bravado is no more than a figment of your imagination, no one even knows your military how it will behave in a real war, even your military has repeatedly recognized that this tank morality is outdated for the army and therefore they want a new platform and do not want to buy the t-90 as they say the deeply modernized t-72, in my army there are less than 30 pieces, and they advertise it only exclusively for sale abroad to the Papuans, only even the Papuans are in no hurry even the Indians refused to buy it into them in favor of their tank arjun, so of all the above listed I’m not the one who is driving here, I’m trying to organize my point of view as much as possible and not act as a Moldovan fire extinguisher who is trying to put out everyone with their expert opinion
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 12: 45 New
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    yes I agree with you that there’s nothing to discuss at all, it just surprises me with the stubbornness of some Moldovan tankmen who have some very specific idea of ​​tanks and who throw some general phrases here and don’t understand the subject matter much, but how parrots speak some stupid information it is not clear where after reading it

    Dear, I am Russian, I live in Russia and am now in the same place. And I don’t know why the Moldovan flag is displayed above my nickname. Personally, I will explain the subject of our dispute even easier. THE MERCAVA TANK WASN’T USED IN SCALE WARS LIKE T-90, AND IT MEANS TO GIVE ANYTHING CHARACTERISTIC AND SAY THAT THE JEWISH TANK IS THE BEST, STUPS AT LEAST. In the conflict with Egypt, there was a tank collision and if I remember correctly, it’s from t-72 that I told you your tankers. that tanks can only be compared when There is a direct and prolonged clash in a large-scale war, where there are tanks on both sides ... Also, by the way, I wonder what kind of gun is on the merkava? m .. Amerovskaya. So, in fact, all your attempts to show what kind of Jewish The cool tank is worthless. The Americans will cover the delivery of your trunks and your tank will be a castrated metal box. Even the Americans recognized the 90 gun as one of the best guns in the world. And to completely end our pointless argument, I will say this: here is the t-34 and the panther to compare and can be described, maybe they came across on the field battles were used for a long time. Merkava was in wars where the enemy’s tanks would not have been used, which means talking about his superiority, as you say here, isn’t clever. All to you, dear good. And less nationalism, from the lips of a Jew it sounds well not comme il faut.
    1. cherina
      cherina 14 November 2014 14: 47 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      Dear, I am Russian, I live in Russia and am now in the same place. And I don’t know why the Moldovan flag is displayed above my nickname. Personally, I will explain the subject of our dispute even easier. THE MERCAVA TANK WASN’T USED IN SCALE WARS LIKE T-90, AND IT MEANS TO GIVE ANYTHING CHARACTERISTIC AND SAY THAT THE JEWISH TANK IS THE BEST, STUPS AT LEAST. In the conflict with Egypt, there was a tank collision and if I remember correctly, it’s from t-72 that I told you your tankers. that tanks can only be compared when There is a direct and prolonged clash in a large-scale war, where there are tanks on both sides ... Also, by the way, I wonder what kind of gun is on the merkava? m .. Amerovskaya. So, in fact, all your attempts to show what kind of Jewish The cool tank is worthless. The Americans will cover the delivery of your trunks and your tank will be a castrated metal box. Even the Americans recognized the 90 gun as one of the best guns in the world. And to completely end our pointless argument, I will say this: here is the t-34 and the panther to compare and can be described, maybe they came across on the field battles were used for a long time. Merkava was in wars where the enemy’s tanks would not have been used, which means talking about his superiority, as you say here, isn’t clever. All to you, dear good. And less nationalism, from the lips of a Jew it sounds well not comme il faut.

      Dear MOLDOVAN tankman, I’m very glad when it turned out that you turned out to be Russian. Believe me, it all changed. I didn’t want to hurt your national feelings. I’m generally an internationalist. Now, for the subject of our conversation, you could not indicate the source of your information regarding the battle in which the valiant Egyptian tankers as you say the unfortunate Israeli army was simply smeared and received the same nozzle on the invincible t-72 tanks where this battle took place or where did you get information about it as far as I know the t-72 nickname when I didn’t take part in a clash with Israeli tanks, I’ll say more about the gun and the German engine for them, but that doesn’t make it worse, but in my opinion it’s only better, believe me, many countries buy weapons and components abroad and this is normal, I’ll tell you more about your t-90 is also worth a lot of non-domestic production, so what, until the Mistral revenge just gives you everything and everything gets delivered to us as it should and we don’t forget, we are a small poor country, we can’t produce everything and it’s not necessary to build a factory for the sake of 500 tanks egche 500 buy guns do you think respectfully await your response
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 17: 32 New
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    Quote: cherina
    Quote: NEXUS
    Dear, I am Russian, I live in Russia and am now in the same place. And I don’t know why the Moldovan flag is displayed above my nickname. Personally, I will explain the subject of our dispute even easier. THE MERCAVA TANK WASN’T USED IN SCALE WARS LIKE T-90, AND IT MEANS TO GIVE ANYTHING CHARACTERISTIC AND SAY THAT THE JEWISH TANK IS THE BEST, STUPS AT LEAST. In the conflict with Egypt, there was a tank collision and if I remember correctly, it’s from t-72 that I told you your tankers. that tanks can only be compared when There is a direct and prolonged clash in a large-scale war, where there are tanks on both sides ... Also, by the way, I wonder what kind of gun is on the merkava? m .. Amerovskaya. So, in fact, all your attempts to show what kind of Jewish The cool tank is worthless. The Americans will cover the delivery of your trunks and your tank will be a castrated metal box. Even the Americans recognized the 90 gun as one of the best guns in the world. And to completely end our pointless argument, I will say this: here is the t-34 and the panther to compare and can be described, maybe they came across on the field battles were used for a long time. Merkava was in wars where the enemy’s tanks would not have been used, which means talking about his superiority, as you say here, isn’t clever. All to you, dear good. And less nationalism, from the lips of a Jew it sounds well not comme il faut.

    Dear MOLDOVAN tankman, I’m very glad when it turned out that you turned out to be Russian. Believe me, it all changed. I didn’t want to hurt your national feelings. I’m generally an internationalist. Now, for the subject of our conversation, you could not indicate the source of your information regarding the battle in which the valiant Egyptian tankers as you say the unfortunate Israeli army was simply smeared and received the same nozzle on the invincible t-72 tanks where this battle took place or where did you get information about it as far as I know the t-72 nickname when I didn’t take part in a clash with Israeli tanks, I’ll say more about the gun and the German engine for them, but that doesn’t make it worse, but in my opinion it’s only better, believe me, many countries buy weapons and components abroad and this is normal, I’ll tell you more about your t-90 is also worth a lot of non-domestic production, so what, until the Mistral revenge just gives you everything and everything gets delivered to us as it should and we don’t forget, we are a small poor country, we can’t produce everything and it’s not necessary to build a factory for the sake of 500 tanks egche 500 buy guns do you think respectfully await your response

    Dear JEWISH TANKIST, I apologize for the inaccuracy. You are right that it was not t-72, but t-55 and not only Egypt, but also Syria participated in the conflict of the 73 of the year. In this I admit my inaccuracy. But the essence of our dispute does not change. Regarding a small and poor country, you, of course, as a true Jew, sing very smoothly. But then enlighten me dark, for what kind of military operations your super-duper tank was created, in which the cannon is not of Israeli production. To the question of t90, I will say that those components and assemblies whose production is not in Russia, it’s easy to postpone in a very short time. But what will you do if, for example, Israel starts military operations against any country, and America decides to refuse to supply you with engines, and the Germans in deliveries of guns? M By the way, there was an armed conflict in the 1982 year. The Lebanese war. And the 72 personally met your merkava. Do you want to tell anything about this? And ending our argument, I will say this: bear 7 for months, and then we'll see, we will discuss. It was pleasant with you have a chat.
    1. Professor 14 November 2014 18: 10 New
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      .Livan war. And T72 personally met your merkava.

      bullshit
      1. yehat 14 November 2014 19: 10 New
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        In this regard, the Israelis seem to be objective no more than Ukrainians or Americans. Anyway. The gun, as far as I know, is still not American - its roots are in England. As for the comparison of tanks, the Israelis and Arabs mainly fought on purchased equipment or bombed or knocked out tanks with missiles.
        No hordes of invincible mercs simply did not exist. Therefore, I would be silent on the site of the Israelis about the "best tank", limiting myself to the fact that this is really the best diaper for a tanker in the world.
    2. cherina
      cherina 14 November 2014 19: 16 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      Dear JEWISH TANKIST, I apologize for the inaccuracy. You are right that it was not t-72, but t-55 and not only Egypt, but also Syria participated in the conflict of the 73 of the year. In this I admit my inaccuracy. But the essence of our dispute does not change. Regarding a small and poor country, you, of course, as a true Jew, sing very smoothly. But then enlighten me dark, for what kind of military operations your super-duper tank was created, in which the cannon is not of Israeli production. To the question of t90, I will say that those components and assemblies whose production is not in Russia, it’s easy to postpone in a very short time. But what will you do if, for example, Israel starts military operations against any country, and America decides to refuse to supply you with engines, and the Germans in deliveries of guns? M By the way, there was an armed conflict in the 1982 year. The Lebanese war. And the 72 personally met your merkava. Do you want to tell anything about this? And ending our argument, I will say this: bear 7 for months, and then we'll see, we will discuss. It was pleasant with you have a chat.

      Dear Russian tanker, fighting under the Moldavian flag, your opponent writes to you, read your story and would like to ask me to indicate the source of where and between which formations this legendary battle took place since you are so referring to it, I just sincerely want to know maybe I didn’t know something about this historical battles, about what kind of battles our super duper tank was created for, I’ll answer you, you understand, we are far from living in Switzerland, our neighbors are restless, and from time to time we have to give them a couple of offensive blows so so that they don’t forget who it is possible to bark and who is not worth it, this object is needed, and because you are so sorry for them, well, who is to blame for them, this kind of dead end branch of the development of humanity is visible to the Palestinians, so it turned out to be kin dza dza, and and why do you propose to wait for 7 months, it seems to me to have years 7 wait for a minimum, with respect, a Jewish tanker
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 18: 44 New
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    Quote: Professor
    bullshit

    yah wink?!
    1. Professor 14 November 2014 18: 48 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      yah ?!

      Well yes. Can you tell me now where, when and under what circumstances the battle took place? Which unit participated in it and ... wink

      PS
      Have you read about Kahalani?
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 19: 12 New
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    Quote: Professor
    Have you read about Kahalani?

    As a rule, tank battles began at ranges 1,500-2,000 m and ended at the line of approach to 1,000 m. According to the chief military adviser to the Syrian Ministry of Defense, General G.P. Yashkin, who personally took part in the leadership of the fighting in Lebanon, T-tanks 72 showed their complete superiority over the enemy’s armored vehicles. Affected by greater mobility, better security and high firepower of these machines. So, after the battle, in the frontal sheets of some “seventy-two”, we counted up to 10 dents from the “enemy blanks” of the enemy, nevertheless, the tanks retained combat effectiveness and did not leave the battle. At the same time, X-NUMX-mm T-125 shells surely hit enemy vehicles in the forehead at ranges up to 72 meters. So, according to one of the eyewitnesses - a Soviet officer in the battle formations of the Syrian troops - after the shell of a D-1,500TM gun from a distance of approximately 81 m hit the Merkava tank, the tower of the latter was torn off the shoulder.THIS IS EXTRACT FROM ONE ARTICLE.
    1. Professor 14 November 2014 19: 58 New
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      As a rule, tank battles began at ranges of 1,500-2,000 m and ended at a line of approximation of up to 1,000 m. According to General GP Yashkin, the chief military adviser to the Syrian Ministry of Defense ...

      I’m not talking about the tales of the next nonsense, but about specific things: where, when and under what circumstances did the battle take place? Which unit participated in it and ...

      Like for you: Two myths of one battle: the Syrian T-72 in the Lebanese war of the 1982 of the year
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 19: 16 New
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    Quote: Professor

    Well yes. Can you tell me now where, when and under what circumstances the battle took place? Which unit participated in it and ...

    At the same time, fighting on the entire front resumed: the Israelis launched a “psychic” attack, trying to take control of the most important strategic communication - the Beirut-Damascus highway. However, this attack was repelled with heavy losses on the Israeli side. Syrian T-72 from the 3-th Panzer Division again distinguished themselves. Its commander, Brigadier General F. Shafik, on his own initiative, advanced his connection from the second echelon and launched a powerful counterattack in the direction of the city of Adan. As a result, the 210-I tank division of the enemy was driven back from the highway at 18-20 km and actually defeated. Neighboring divisions were in a difficult situation. The Israeli front was threatened with collapse, but on 11 in June at 12 hours the fighting was stopped: the American emissaries Schulz and Habib, who arrived in Damascus, convinced the Syrian leadership to stop the counter-attack, guaranteeing that Israel would withdraw troops from Lebanon in 10 days and enter negotiations with Syria.
    1. cherina
      cherina 14 November 2014 22: 34 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      At the same time, fighting on the entire front resumed: the Israelis launched a “psychic” attack, trying to take control of the most important strategic communication - the Beirut-Damascus highway. However, this attack was repelled with heavy losses on the Israeli side. Syrian T-72 from the 3-th Panzer Division again distinguished themselves. Its commander, Brigadier General F. Shafik, on his own initiative, advanced his connection from the second echelon and launched a powerful counterattack in the direction of the city of Adan. As a result, the 210-I tank division of the enemy was driven back from the highway at 18-20 km and actually defeated. Neighboring divisions were in a difficult situation. The Israeli front was threatened with collapse, but on 11 in June at 12 hours the fighting was stopped: the American emissaries Schulz and Habib, who arrived in Damascus, convinced the Syrian leadership to stop the counter-attack, guaranteeing that Israel would withdraw troops from Lebanon in 10 days and enter negotiations with Syria.

      I was already reading this nonsense somewhere, it turned out that the next tale of the Russian military experts had nothing to do with the truth, there was no battle between the T-72 and the mercava historically, but we heard all sorts of obsesses, give another example if you can, what’s the doc film NTV Beirut82, there are also many tales heard
  • NEXUS 14 November 2014 19: 32 New
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    Dear Russian tanker, fighting under the Moldavian flag, your opponent writes to you, read your story and would like to ask me to indicate the source of where and between which formations this legendary battle took place since you are so referring to it, I just sincerely want to know maybe I didn’t know something about this historical battles, about what kind of battles our super duper tank was created for, I’ll answer you, you understand, we are far from living in Switzerland, our neighbors are restless, and from time to time we have to give them a couple of offensive blows so so that they don’t forget who it is possible to bark and who is not worth it, this object is needed, and because you are so sorry for them, well, who is to blame for them, this kind of dead end branch of the development of humanity is visible to the Palestinians, so it turned out to be kin dza dza, and and why do you propose to wait for 7 months, it seems to me to have years 7 wait for a minimum, with respect, a Jewish tanker

    Well, maybe to pacify the restless Palestinians, Merkava is the best tank in the world, a respected Jewish tanker (toilet, plasma and apartment bar, maybe in a standard package and a woman of facilitated behavior is attached laughing ), but you know what the thing is, this dead-end barking branch has no tanks. And therefore, of course, the Merkava tank is the best super-duper tank of all time. And 7 months is not so long, dear. Be patient, and you will be happy.
    1. cherina
      cherina 14 November 2014 22: 46 New
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      Quote: NEXUS
      Well, maybe to pacify the troubled Palestinians, Merkava is the best tank in the world, a respected Jewish tanker (toilet, plasma and apartment bar, maybe laughing as a standard package and a woman of facilitated behavior), but you see what a thing, this dead-end barking branch has no tanks . And therefore, of course, the Merkava tank is the best super-duper tank of all time. And 7 months is not so long, dear. Be patient, and you will be happy.

      this is who did not have tanks, maybe the Syrians, Egyptians or Jordanians do not drive a blizzard you gave them tanks in large quantities against us and with your super instructors well, what’s the result, correctly there’s no tanks and no money in short Israel is guilty again they have shells of the wrong system and they are not fighting correctly