Military Review

Myths of the USA. "Roaring cows" of the Soviet Navy

223
Myths of the USA. "Roaring cows" of the Soviet Navy

“Talking about the secrecy of the first Soviet submarines was simply meaningless. The Americans gave them the humiliating nickname “roaring cows”. The pursuit of Soviet engineers for the other characteristics of the boats (speed, depth, power weapons) did not save the situation. An airplane, a helicopter, or a torpedo would still be faster. A boat, being discovered, turned into a “game”, not having become a “hunter”.

“The task of deadening Soviet submarines in the eighties began to be solved. True, they still remained 3 — 4 was noisier than the American Los Angeles-class submarines.

Such statements are constantly found in Russian journals and books devoted to Russian nuclear submarines (APL). This information was taken not from any official sources, but from American and English articles. That is why the terrible noise of the Soviet / Russian nuclear submarines is one of the myths of the United States.

It should be noted that not only Soviet shipbuilders encountered the problems of noise, and if we were able to immediately create a combat submarine capable of serving, then the Americans had more serious problems with their firstborn. "Nautilus" had a lot of "childhood diseases", which is so characteristic of all experimental machines. His engine gave out such a noise level that sonars, the main means of orientation under water, were practically deaf. As a result, during a hike in the North Seas in the area of. Svalbard, sonars "overlooked" the drifting ice floe, which damaged the only periscope. In the future, the Americans launched a struggle to reduce noise. To achieve this, they abandoned the double-hulled boats, moving to one-and-a-half-hull and single-hull boats, sacrificing the important characteristics of submarines: survivability, depth, and speed. In our country, built double-hull. But were the Soviet designers wrong, and the two-part submarines so noisy that their combat use would be meaningless?

It would, of course, be good to take data on the noise of domestic and foreign nuclear submarines and compare them. But, it is impossible to do this, because official information on this issue is still considered to be secret (it suffices to recall the Iowa battleships, according to which the real characteristics were disclosed only after 50 years). There is no information on American boats at all (and if it does appear, it should be treated with the same care as with information on booking an LC Iowa). On domestic submarines sometimes there are scattered data. But what kind of information? Here are four examples from different articles:

1) When designing the first Soviet nuclear submarine, a set of measures to ensure acoustic secrecy was created ... ... However, shock absorbers for the main turbines were never created. As a result, the submarine noise level of the nuclear submarine of the 627 project increased at high speeds to 110 decibels.
2) The SSGN of the 670 project had a very low level of acoustic visibility for that time (among Soviet second generation nuclear submarines, this submarine was considered the lowest noise level). Its noise at full speed in the ultrasonic frequency range was less than 80, in the infrasonic - 100, in the sound - 110 decibels.

3) When creating the third-generation submarines, it was possible to achieve a reduction in noise level compared to the boats of the previous generation on 12 Decibels, or 3,4 times.

4) Since the 70s of the last century, submarines reduced their noise level by an average of two years for 1 dB. Over the past 19 years alone - from the 1990 of the year to the present - the average noise level of the US NPS has declined tenfold, from 0,1 Pa to 0,01 Pa.

It is in principle impossible to make any reasonable and logical conclusion from this noise level data. Therefore, we have only one way - to analyze the real facts of the service. Here are the most famous cases from the service of domestic submarines.

675 submarine


1) During the autonomous campaign in the South China Sea 1968, the K-10 submarine from the number of the first generation of Soviet atomic submarines (675 project) received an order to intercept the US Navy aircraft carrier. The aircraft carrier Enterprise covered the Long Beach rocket cruiser, frigates and support ships. At a calculated point, Captain 1 of the rank of R.V. Mazin led the submarine through the defensive lines of the American warrant directly beneath the bottom of the Enterprise. Hiding behind the noise of the screws of a gigantic ship, the submarine accompanied the strike force for thirteen hours. During this time, training torpedo attacks on all pennants of the order were worked out and acoustic profiles (characteristic noise of various vessels) were removed. After that, K-10 successfully left the order and ran a training rocket attack at a distance. In the event of a real war, the entire compound would be destroyed to choose: conventional torpedoes or a nuclear strike. It is interesting to note that American experts rated the 675 project extremely low. It was these submarines that they dubbed "Roaring Cows." And precisely they could not detect the ships of the US aircraft carrier. The boats of the 675 project were used not only to monitor surface ships, but sometimes they also “ruined life” for American nuclear powered ships on duty. Thus, K-135 in 1967 for the year during 5,5 hours carried out continuous monitoring of the Patrick Henry SSBN, remaining not detected itself.

2) In the next exacerbation of Soviet-American relations in 1979, the nuclear submarine K-38 and K-481 (pr. 671) carried out combat service in the Persian Gulf, where in that period it was up to 50 US Navy ships. The hike lasted 6 months. Member of the campaign A.N. Shporko reported that the Soviet submarines operated in the Persian Gulf very covertly: if the US Navy briefly found them, they could not properly classify, much less organize the prosecution and work conditional destruction. Subsequently, these findings were confirmed by intelligence data. At the same time, tracking the ships of the US Navy was carried out at a distance of weapons and if received, they would be sent to the bottom with a probability close to 100%



3) In March, 1984, the United States and South Korea conducted their regular annual naval drills, Team Spirit .. In Moscow and Pyongyang, they closely followed the exercises. To observe the American carrier-based strike group consisting of the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk and seven US warships, the K-314 nuclear submarine (671 Ave., the second generation of nuclear submarines, also reproached for noise) was sent and six warships. Four days later, K-314 was able to detect the US Navy carrier strike group. Monitoring of the aircraft carrier was carried out over the next day 7, then after the discovery of the Soviet nuclear submarine, the aircraft carrier entered the territorial waters of South Korea. "K-314" remained outside the territorial waters.

Having lost hydroacoustic contact with the aircraft carrier, the boat commanded by Captain 1-rank Vladimir Yevseyenko continued the search. The Soviet submarine headed to the proposed location of the aircraft carrier, but it was not there. The US side kept radio silence.
March 21 Soviet submarine found strange noises. To clarify the situation the boat floated to the periscope depth. The clock was the beginning of the eleventh. According to Vladimir Yevseyenko, several American ships were observed that were going to meet each other. It was decided to dive, but it was too late. The aircraft carrier, unnoticed by the crew of the submarine, with running lights off, moved at a speed of about 30 km / h. K-314 was ahead of Kitty Hawk. There was a blow, followed by another. At first, the team decided that the cutting was damaged, but when checking the water in the compartments was not found. As it turned out, the stabilizer was bent during the first collision, the screw was damaged during the second. A huge tug Mashuk was sent to her for help. The boat was towed to Chazhma Bay, in 50 km east of Vladivostok, where she was to undergo repairs.

For Americans, the collision was also unexpected. According to them, after the strike, they saw the receding silhouette of a submarine without navigation lights. Two US anti-submarine helicopters SH-3H were raised. Accompanying the Soviet submarine, they did not detect any visible serious damage. However, when hitting the submarine, the propeller was out of action, and it began to lose speed. Screw was damaged and the body of the aircraft carrier. It turned out that his bottom was proportional to 40 m. Fortunately, no one was hurt in this incident. Kitty Hawk was forced to repair the Subic Bay naval base in the Philippines before returning to San Diego. On examination of the aircraft carrier, a fragment of a K-314 propeller stuck in the hull was found, as well as pieces of a sound-absorbing submarine cover. The exercises were curtailed. The accident caused a lot of noise: the American press was actively discussing how the submarine was able to sail unnoticed at such close distance to the US Navy's aircraft carrier group conducting the exercises, including with an anti-submarine orientation.

Submarine project 671РТМ


4) In the winter of 1996 of the year in 150 miles of the Hebrides. The Russian Embassy in London 29 February appealed to the command of the British Navy with a request to assist the crew member of the submarine 671РТМ (cipher "Pike", second generation +), who underwent appendicitis surgery on board the vessel, followed by peritonitis (its treatment is possible only under hospital). Soon the sick with a helicopter "Lynx" from the destroyer "Glasgow" redirected to the shore. However, the British media was not so much touched by the manifestation of naval cooperation between Russia and Great Britain, but expressed bewilderment about the fact that during London negotiations were being held in the North Atlantic, in the area where the submarine of the Russian Navy was located antisubmarine maneuvers (by the way, the Glasgow EM also participated in them). But the icebreaker was able to detect only after he himself surfaced to transfer the sailor to the helicopter. According to the Times, the Russian submarine has demonstrated its secrecy in tracking anti-submarine forces conducting an active search. It is noteworthy that the British in an official statement made for the media initially attributed the "Pike" to the more modern (lower noise) project 971, and only after they acknowledged that they could not notice the noisy Soviet boat of the project 671РТМ.



5) On May 23, 1981, a Soviet nuclear submarine K-211 (SSBN 667-BDR) and an American submarine of the Sturgeon type collided in one of the SF landfills near the Kola Bay. An American submarine rammed the stern of the K-211 with its wheelhouse while she was working out elements of combat training. The American submarine did not emerge in the collision area. However, in the vicinity of the British base of the Navy, Holi Loch, an American nuclear submarine appeared with a pronounced damage to the cabin. Our submarine surfaced, and came to the base under its own power. Here, the submarine was expected by a commission, which consisted of industry experts, fleet, designer and science. K-211 was docked, and during the inspection, holes were found in two stern tanks of the main ballast, damage to the horizontal stabilizer and the blades of the right screw. In damaged tanks, bolts with countersunk heads found pieces of plexus and metal from the wheelhouse of the US Navy submarine. Moreover, the commission on certain details was able to establish that the Soviet submarine was faced precisely with an American submarine such as Sturgeon. The huge SSBNs pr 667, like all SSBNs, were not intended for sharp maneuvers that the American nuclear submarines could not dodge, so the only explanation for this incident was that the Stargent did not see or even suspect that K- was in close proximity 211. It should be noted that boats of the Sturgeon type were designed specifically for combating submarines and carried relevant modern search equipment.

It should be noted that the collisions of submarines are not so rare. The last for the domestic and American nuclear submarines was a collision near the island of Kildin, in Russian territorial waters, 11 February 1992 of the K-276 submarine (commissioned in 1982) under the command of second-rank captain I. Lokty faced the American nuclear-powered submarine Baton Rouge ("Los Angeles"), which, tracking the ships of the Russian Navy in the exercise area, buried the Russian submarine. As a result of the collision at the "Crab" was damaged cabin. The position of the American nuclear submarine turned out to be more difficult, she barely managed to reach the base, after which they decided not to repair the boat, but to withdraw it from the fleet.

Damage to the cabin K-276

Damage to the bow of the Baton Rouge nuclear submarine


6) Perhaps the brightest fragment in the biography of the ships of the 671РТМ project was their participation in major operations "Aport" and "Atrina", conducted by the 33 division in the Atlantic and significantly shaken the United States in the ability of its Navy to solve anti-submarine tasks.
On May 29, 1985, three submarines of Project 671RTM (K-502, K-324, K-299), as well as the K-488 submarine (Project 671RT), left the Western Face. Later, the nuclear submarines of project 671 - K-147 joined them. Of course, the release of a whole combination of atomic submarines into the ocean for US naval intelligence could not go unnoticed. Intensive searches began, but they did not bring the expected results. At the same time, the secretly operating Soviet nuclear submarines themselves monitored the US Navy missile submarines in the area of ​​their combat patrol (for example, the K-324 nuclear submarine had three sonar contacts with the US nuclear submarine for a total duration of 28 hours. And the K-147 equipped with the latest tracking system for The wake submarine, using the indicated system and acoustic means, performed six-day (!!!) tracking of the American SSBN “Simon Bolivar.” In addition, the submarines studied the tactics of the American anti-submarine aviation. The Americans managed to establish contact only with the K-488 that was already returning to base. On July 1, Operation Aport ended.

7) In March-June 87 of the year carried out a similar operation “Atrina”, in which five submarines of the project 671РТМ - К-244 (under the command of the captain of the second rank V. Alikov) took part, К-255 (under the command of the captain of the second rank) B. Yu. Muratova), K-298 (commanded by Captain Second Rank Popkov), K-299 (commanded by Captain Second Rank NI Klyuev) and K-524 (commanded by Captain Second Rank AF Smelkov) . Although the Americans found out about the withdrawal of nuclear submarines from West Faces, they lost ships in the North Atlantic. “Underwater hunting” started again, in which almost all the anti-submarine forces of the American Atlantic fleet were attracted — coastal and deck-based aircraft, six anti-submarine nuclear submarines (in addition to the submarines already deployed by the United States naval forces in the Atlantic), the 3 powerful naval search groups and 3 of the newest vessels of the Stolworth type (ships of hydroacoustic observation), which used powerful underwater explosions to form a sonar pulse. The ships of the English fleet were involved in the search operation. According to the stories of the commanders of the domestic submarines, the concentration of anti-submarine forces was so great that it seemed impossible to podsplipit for air pumping and a radio session. For Americans who failed in 1985, they needed to regain face. Despite the fact that all possible anti-submarine forces of the US Navy and their allies were pulled into the area, the nuclear submarines managed to reach the Sargasso Sea area unnoticed, where the Soviet “veil” was finally discovered. The Americans managed to establish the first short contacts with submarines only eight days after the operation “Atrina” began. The 671RTM submarine of the project was mistaken for missile strategic submarines, which only increased the concern of the US naval command and the country's political leadership (it should be recalled that these events came at the height of the Cold War, which could turn into "Hot"). During the return to the base, the submarine commanders were allowed to use secret means of hydroacoustic counteraction from the US Navy anti-submarine weapons, until this point the Soviet submarines successfully hid from the anti-submarine forces solely due to the characteristics of the submarines themselves.

The success of the operations "Atrina" and "Aport" confirmed the assumption that the naval forces of the United States with the massive use of modern nuclear submarines by the Soviet Union will not be able to organize any effective counteraction against them.

As we see from the available facts, the American anti-submarine forces were not able to ensure the detection of Soviet submarines, including those of the first generations, and to protect their naval forces from sudden strikes from the depths. And all the statements that “Talking about the secrecy of the first Soviet nuclear submarines was simply meaningless” have no basis.

Now let us analyze the myth that high speeds, maneuverability and depth of immersion do not give any advantages. And again we turn to the known facts:

661 submarine


1) In September-December, the 1971 of the Soviet nuclear submarine of the 661 project (number K-162) made its first trip to full autonomy with a combat route from the Greenland Sea to the Brazilian Depression. In October, the submarine embarked on intercepting an aircraft carrier strike of the US Navy, in the head of which was the aircraft carrier "Saratoga". They were able to detect the submarine on the covering ships and tried to drive it away. Under normal conditions, marking a submarine would mean disrupting a combat mission, but not in this case. K-162 developed speed over 44 nodes in a submerged position. Attempts to drive away the K-162, or break away at speed, were not successful. There were no chances for Saratoga with a maximum of 35 nodes. During the many hours of chase, the Soviet submarine worked out training torpedo attacks and several times went out to the favorable angle for launching Amethyst missiles. But the most interesting thing is that the submarine maneuvered so quickly that the Americans were sure that they were being pursued by a “wolf pack” - a group of submarines. What does it mean? This suggests that the appearance of the boat in the new square was for the Americans so unexpected, or rather unexpected, that they considered this a contact with the new submarine. Consequently, in the event of hostilities, the Americans would produce a search and attack at a completely different square. Thus, it is almost impossible to avoid an attack, nor to destroy a submarine in the presence of high-speed submarines.

705 submarine


2) Initially 1980's. One of the USSR nuclear submarines, which operated in the North Atlantic, was set a kind of record, it watched the “potential enemy” nuclear-powered vessel during the 22 hours, being in the aft sector of the tracking object. Despite all the attempts of the commander of the NATO submarine to change the situation, it was not possible to throw the enemy off the tail: the tracking was stopped only after the commander of the Soviet submarine received relevant orders from the shore. This incident occurred with the nuclear submarine 705-th project - perhaps the most ambiguous and bright ship in stories Soviet submarine shipbuilding. This project deserves a separate article. The 705 APS submarines had a maximum travel speed, which is comparable to the speed of universal and anti-submarine torpedoes of “potential opponents”, but most importantly, due to the power plant features (no special transition to the increased power plant parameters was required when increasing speed, as it was on watermarked submarines reactors), were able to develop a full stroke in minutes, having almost “aircraft” acceleration characteristics. Significant speed allowed for a short time to enter the “shadow” sector of the underwater or surface ship, even if Alpha was previously detected by the enemy’s hydroacoustics. According to the memoirs of Rear Admiral Bogatyrev, who in the past was the commander of K-123 (project 705K), the submarine could turn around "on the patch", which is especially important during active tracking of the "enemy" and its submarines one after another. Alpha did not allow other submarines to enter the course feed corners (i.e., in the zone of sonar shadow), which are particularly favorable for tracking and delivering sudden torpedo attacks.

High maneuverability and speed characteristics of the nuclear submarine of the 705 project made it possible to work out effective maneuvers of evading enemy torpedoes with further counterattack. In particular, the submarine could be circulated at 180 degrees at maximum speed and, after 42 seconds, could begin to move in the opposite direction. The commanders of nuclear submarines project 705 A.F. Zagryadsky and A.U. Abbasov said that such a maneuver made it possible, while gradually increasing the speed to the maximum and at the same time making a turn with a change in depth, to force the enemy following them in the direction-finding mode to lose target, and to the Soviet nuclear submarine to go "at the fighter".

NPS K-278 Komsomolets


3) 4 August 1984 nuclear submarine K-278 "Komsomolets" made an immersive immersion in the history of world military navigation - the arrows of its depth gauges first froze at the 1000-meter mark, and then crossed it. K-278 sailed and maneuvered at a depth of 1027, and at a depth of 1000 meters fired a torpedo. To journalists, this seems to be the usual whim of the Soviet military and designers. They do not understand why it is necessary to achieve such depths, if the Americans at that time limited themselves to 450. To do this, you need to know ocean hydroacoustics. Increasing the depth reduces non-linear detection. Between the upper, highly heated layer of ocean water and the lower, colder layer, lies the so-called temperature jump layer. If, say, the sound source is in a cold dense layer, over which a warm and less dense layer is located, the sound is reflected from the boundary of the upper layer and propagates only in the lower cold layer. In this case, the upper layer is a “silence zone”, a “shadow zone”, which is not penetrated by the noise from the submarine’s propellers. Simple submarine anti-submarine navigators are not able to grope it, and the submarine can feel safe. There may be several such layers in the ocean, and each layer additionally hides a submarine. An even greater concealing effect has the axis of the terrestrial sound channel below which the working depth K-278 was. Even the Americans recognized that detecting submarines at a depth of 800 m and more is impossible by any means. And anti-submarine torpedoes are not designed for such depth. Thus, the K-278 reaching the working depth was invisible and invulnerable.

Do questions arise after this about the importance of maximum speeds, depth, and maneuverability for submarines?

And now we give the statements of officials and institutions, which for some reason, domestic journalists prefer to ignore.

According to scientists from MIPT, cited in the work “The Future of Strategic Nuclear Forces of Russia: Discussion and Arguments” (ed. Dolgoprudny, 1995) even under the most favorable hydrological conditions (the probability of their occurrence in the northern seas not more than 0,03) of the nuclear submarine of 971 ave. For reference: serial construction began in the distant 1980 year) can be detected by American Los Angeles submarines with GACAN / BQQ-5 at distances of no more than 10 km. Under less favorable conditions (that is, with 97% weather conditions in the northern seas), it is impossible to detect Russian submarines.

There is also a statement by a prominent US naval analyst N. Polmoran made at a hearing in the National Security Committee of the US House of Representatives: "The appearance of 3 Russian boats showed that Soviet shipbuilders closed the noise gap much earlier than we could imagine . According to the US Navy, at the operational speeds of the 5-7 nodes, the noise of the Russian 3-generation boats, recorded by the US hydroacoustic reconnaissance, was lower than that of the most advanced Navy submarines of the United States Improved Los Angeles. ”

According to the head of the operational department of the US Navy, Admiral D. Burd (Jeremi Boorda) made in 1995, the American ships are not able to accompany the third-generation Russian submarines at speeds of 6-9 nodes.

This is probably enough to assert that the Russian “roaring cows” are able to accomplish the tasks facing them with any opposition from the enemy.
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  1. Alf
    Alf 15 October 2014 09: 56 New
    116
    Finally, another myth about the backwardness of the Soviet military-industrial complex has been dispelled. The topic, by the way, is completely unstudied.
    I wonder how many Amer’s admirals lost such stars after such maneuvers.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 15 October 2014 10: 46 New
      92
      Quote: Alf
      Finally, another myth about the backwardness of the Soviet military-industrial complex has been dispelled.

      It is said loudly who worked there and so had an idea about him notorious backwardness . True, everyone in their field.
      Yes, and there were enough servicemen, this white bone supposedly the intelligentsia, who did not serve in the army, believed any nonsense.
      Moreover, the meaning of the term “roaring cows” was very freely interpreted by objective publicity and naturally in a negative sense for our nuclear submarines.
      I met that a roaring cow (roaring cow) on a cowboy slang is a cow, as they say, on demolition, looking for a place where to calve. Someone from the US Navy dubbed our submarines such a nickname, motivating the similarity of situations. There the advent of the calf, here the launch of rockets.
      Direct translation is almost always not what they wanted to say, and even in army slang ...
      For instance _ laughing drinks
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 15 October 2014 12: 03 New
        10
        Vladimir, at the top.
        Such a "cow" could never have been allowed to calve.
      2. Severomor
        Severomor 15 October 2014 12: 09 New
        14
        I met that a roaring cow (a roaring cow) on a cowboy slang is a cow, as they say, on demolition, looking for a place to calve. Someone from the US Navy dubbed our submarines such a nickname, motivating the similarity of situations. There the advent of the calf, here the launch of rockets.

        Thank you so much! Never paid such attention. I always thought so once "roaring" means loud. Another myth is dispelled :)
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 15 October 2014 13: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: Severomor
          ... I always thought so once "roaring" means loud.

          Not without it, dear Severomor , not without this, but precisely that it was not this that became the main one because of which our first nuclear submarines were so named.
          hi
          1. jjj
            jjj 15 October 2014 13: 42 New
            13
            If you still read from foreign sources, they were translated in the late 90s, about the accident rate on Western boats, then the second myth about the "exceptional accident rate of Soviet submarines" will evaporate
            1. Severomor
              Severomor 15 October 2014 14: 19 New
              11
              We always have this, from extreme to extreme.
              That huge mass of translated literature is classified, then they translate and publish all sorts of crap, the level of the yellow press.
              1. fennekRUS
                fennekRUS 15 October 2014 16: 41 New
                +6
                someone said negative news sells better. here and watered everything mine
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. nickname 1 and 2
                nickname 1 and 2 17 October 2014 13: 14 New
                0
                Is this a dispatcher?
                The dispatcher is listening.
                Dispatcher, you!
                Who, who says that?
                Everyone is talking!

                What am I doing? And besides, what about our victories, superiority, we had to shout at all crossroads. What for? And then that when some are modestly silent, others whisper loudly about THEIR superiority.
                Here they are in a loud whisper and defeated (with the help of the tagged) us.
                But they would shout, skillfully, like that, with the facts, you look, everything would turn differently
            2. Sergey Vl.
              Sergey Vl. 16 October 2014 02: 34 New
              +1
              Americans, as always, want to look better than they really are. Posers!
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 15 October 2014 16: 48 New
            -6
            it's you Cynic are mistaken, roaring cows are Soviet diesel-electric submarines from Tango (project 611) to Ottel, and nuclear-powered submarines like American, Great British and Soviet "whistle"
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 15 October 2014 17: 45 New
              +3
              Quote: badger1974
              it's you Cynic wrong, roaring cows this ...

              What calms me is that not one.
              Search by tag roaring cows gives such a conceptual diversity ...
              I was voiced only one of the most sensible interpretations ( wink ) of this concept.
              By the way, I advise, selectively, to read the resulting selection of articles. The year of writing is clearly determined by the content, the closer to the beginning of the 90s the more revealing the meaning.
              hi
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 16 October 2014 07: 52 New
                  +7
                  Quote: badger1974
                  I do not know what is in your abbreviation APP

                  Do you have problems with your monitor or your eyesight?
                  Quote: Cynic
                  roaring cows

                  As you understand your post, the source of the quote could not be corrected.
                  So that Premier League there and nothing else.
                  Quote: badger1974
                  and so essentially you loshara

                  You feel a deep ONE-SIDED KNOWLEDGE of the SUBJECT, calm down badger1974, everything is not so tragic _

                  and most importantly, to finally calm down
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Cynic
                      Cynic 16 October 2014 19: 00 New
                      +2
                      Quote: badger1974
                      but about sucker. you see to yourself

                      Would you rather die out, but not be a sucker?

                      But seriously, chatter, both poison the bikes.
                      laughing
                      drinks
                      1. badger1974
                        badger1974 16 October 2014 20: 44 New
                        0
                        Shota tales, but sho it is not. the main thing is what to say to each other, and this happens infa abruptly than any electronic media, machines are guilty of working in our interest and not vice versa,
            2. The comment was deleted.
      3. kartalovkolya
        kartalovkolya 15 October 2014 15: 34 New
        -14
        Well, they made me feel good, and all the time I was thinking about what Karl Marx's head on the pedestal resembles, and then it turns out that this is what ...! Now it is clear where such "ideas" originated in this head, if I may say so ... And for some, the head is generally similar to a "sit-down", so they carry all the "crap" on issues in which "no ear or snout" do not understand!
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 15 October 2014 18: 05 New
          +6
          Quote: kartalovkolya
          all the time I was thinking about what Karl Marx's head resembles on a pedestal, and then it turns out that this is what ...! Now it is clear where such "ideas" originated in this head, if I may say so ..
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 16 October 2014 17: 21 New
            -5
            along the way, and your vision is extrapolated, just don’t say that it’s color blind, you’ll have visual accompaniment like that .. e..ki in the color scheme,
        2. lukewarm
          lukewarm 16 October 2014 12: 30 New
          +4
          Self-critical, comrade army General. But do not despair. You hide your seat under a forage cap. Or release your hair a la benedict.
      4. badger1974
        badger1974 15 October 2014 16: 44 New
        -9
        Roaring cows are about fkstrota, project 641 diesel-electric submarines is the most massive submarine project in the USSR Navy, it’s whistling for submarines
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 17: 13 New
          11
          Quote: badger1974
          Roaring cows is about fkstrot, DEPL project 641 is the most massive submarine project in the Soviet Navy

          In the fall of 1985, he completed an internship in Sevastopol. They were assigned to the crew of class 641-B diesel-electric submarines (elastic band). By the time of our arrival, the boat had returned from a combat cruise, in which several contacts with the ships of the Turkish Navy were recorded. The guys proudly demonstrated the pictures taken by "Zenith" through the periscope. But the 641st (piece of iron), which went out to sea the day before, had no contacts. And it's not hard to see why.
          By the way, my "rubber band" in the same autumn won the competition of fleets in firing bipedal torpedoes, despite the miss of one of the two launched torpedoes. The competent starley commander of the BCH-1 in his report was able to prove that the onboard complex for calculating the torpedo firing data was working, to put it mildly.
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 15 October 2014 17: 57 New
            14
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Roaring cows is about fkstrot, DEPL

            The black humor of the situation is that no one thinks about the meaning of the term, everyone is trying to find that bad submarine or bad submarine, which would correspond to a derogatory, generally accepted interpretation.
            The contrivedness of thinking is complete!

            request
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 18: 10 New
              +4
              Quote: Cynic
              blindness of thinking is complete!

              If this is in my address - then in vain, my friend ...
              At the VMK we were taught by the former chief officer of one of the boats who made that memorable trip along the route Zap.Litsa - Franz Josef Land - North Pole - around Greenland - the Baffin Sea (in a submerged position, and in some places "according to the newspaper") and further to the east coast of the United States.
              Well, the former flag navigator of the KSF was the "chief" of the internship.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 15 October 2014 18: 42 New
                +3
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                If this is in my address - then in vain, my friend ...

                This is not addressed to you, but simply expressed your opinion on most of the comments.
                The most interesting, how could you understand my post, did you decide that yours did not understand?
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                But the 641st (piece of iron), which went out to sea the day before, had no contacts. And it’s easy to understand why.

                Then, interestingly, how many members of the forum understood what they were talking about?
                drinks
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 18: 46 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Cynic
                  Then, interestingly, how many members of the forum understood what they were talking about?

                  So the divers and those who are "in the subject" - understood.
                  And who did not understand - you are welcome to teach the materiel ... laughing
                  drinks
                  1. lukewarm
                    lukewarm 16 October 2014 12: 34 New
                    0
                    laughing Varshavyanka?
            2. lukewarm
              lukewarm 16 October 2014 12: 33 New
              +2
              I’m not tired of noticing what kind of UGLOGGS women are after all
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 22: 46 New
              20
              Quote: badger1974
              hear uncle

              Hear, son ... Are you some kind of aggressive ... Or took on your chest?
              Knit the bazaar and climb on the shaft. Do not embarrass yourself... fool
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. lukewarm
                lukewarm 16 October 2014 12: 35 New
                +3
                Such as this yellow-black spot under the key.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Umnichka
              Umnichka 16 October 2014 01: 08 New
              49
              BCH-times is a navigational warhead, comrade. badger1974, but there is no "TsKP" on the boats, there is a central post, according to "Kashtan" (the intercom system on the submarine) it is called "central". I myself served on the 705, went to the seas on all the buildings (the crew was small, for more than 3-4 days they took the assigned ones from the free crews). The boat is really unique, there is a book "A ship ahead of its time." Baton Rouge happened in my presence, "Komsomolets" was escorted to the last autonomous system in February with the crew of Vanin with Kolyada senior on board. The article is a definite plus, we "fought" with the Americans then normally Our accident rate was no higher than theirs, despite the technological backwardness of the industry and the very rapid development and construction of a NEW (!) Submarine fleet in all respects. With us, from 705, they did not really understand what to do at all - for example , according to all calculations, we could evade and break away from the already fired torpedo - on catch-up courses, when evading, it could not pierce the strongest wake jet, hitting her in the face when accelerating 3 thousand tons to 42 MVX knots (maximum possible stroke) And even with the worst acoustics, we used all sorts of ratsuhi (rationalization proposals) and sound distribution properties under water (a very difficult thing) to detect and track enemy submarines. especially on strategists, especially on the first generations on "azuki" (667 A project, the letter A in naval is read as "az", hence the azuki. I cannot explain in words - it touched us a little and went to the seas with pleasure, I generally treated the seas as a kind of rest - there were no garrison outfits and guards, there were no different bosses, 4 meals a day sickly, sleep on schedule, etc. P. After each trip, I brought home a whole portfolio of canned food uneaten in the sea, chocolates, roach, condensed milk, etc. The article is a definite plus.
              Py.Sy. On my avatar, my native 705th, view from a helicopter.
              1. badger1974
                badger1974 16 October 2014 12: 08 New
                -6
                and the cruising board of your lyre can you name? 705 in Sevas (section of the fleet of the KCHF with the ukrains), we went on board to plump, and even now Kent works with me, he was on the bug "zaporizhzhia" cricket was in "Romanians" (warhead-705 mine-torpedo). they were drinking there too,
              2. sivuch
                sivuch 16 October 2014 14: 48 New
                0
                Uv. Umnichka. If you do not mind, a couple of questions
                Compared with pr.671, who was noisier at low speeds?
                Was the 705K quieter than the 705?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Andrey NM
                    Andrey NM 17 October 2014 17: 16 New
                    +1
                    Another correction. The ship charter must be known and loved. These are the basics of ship organization! The submarine has never had a central control center, but has always been and is central post. To control the ship, the ship commander organizes MAIN TEAM ITEM. Ccp organized on certain ship projects to collect, process and analyze data on the situation and report to the ship commander in a timely manner, "rules" him as a senior officer. Got it? The CCU still closes in on the GKP. On ships of the 4th rank, such as basic minesweepers, boats like them, CP are created. According to BG-2, all the commands of the watch officer on the ship are broadcast by the VIM (watch engineer-mechanic), and the watchman of the central post takes all the little garbage, he also writes everything that he hears and sees. Sometimes his clumsy scribbles are more important than any "black boxes". Do not confuse surface ships with submarines. Although you can talk about it. Was it in vain that for so many years "Zarya" propped up "and stared at the direction finder in the wheelhouse?
                    By the way, where does "the first to find ..."
              3. Andrey NM
                Andrey NM 16 October 2014 18: 41 New
                +9
                Respected Umnichka, visited the Face, I especially remember the so-called. "Kumzha", when the graduates of the Academy of the General Staff were brought on an "excursion". It was, so as not to lie, in 1989, when another of the 949 projects threw a racket during the time limit. Then we were placed near the piers with 705s. A beautiful steamer. The power plant ruined him, or rather the wrong attitude to the liquid metal reactor, it is difficult to maintain in the base. By the way, during the command "GKP, BIP, navigator - readiness # 1" we laughed and paraphrased "Central control center, chemist, doctor ...". We didn't consider ourselves to be suicide bombers. My "steamer" was and is still very noisy. Well, the azuhi, yes, hummed decently. BDHIs and BDRs were still thundering, but BDRMs had already reached the level, and the acoustic complex was of a completely different level. I remember that the guys from the 19th and 31st divisions were strained by rats and cockroaches, because the ships at that time were old, usually this nasty thing was "acquired" during a mid-life repair and during the loading of products, if the boxes were not cut on the shore out of ignorance. We sit somehow, paint a bullet in the evening, a classmate appears, it smells of burning. Their rat closed the contactors in the shield, burned a little.
                We had 5 meals a day, there were an additional afternoon tea and evening tea. For a mid-morning snack, they usually made yogurt with dryers or biscuits. A canned roach is something, now you can’t find one. I sent chocolates to my little sister in an era of total deficit.
                There is a mistake in the article. The last clash with the Americans was in the spring of 1993. The last corps 667BDRM collided with the "Sturgeon", pierced the CGB on the starboard side in the area of ​​the 2nd compartment. Then after that they even managed to go out to sea.
                For special type connoisseurs badger1974... Bch-2 - missile and artillery, and on SSBNs and SSBNs - missile, native, "Chinese". "Romanians" - BCH-3. And every self-respecting miner in the cabin should have a portrait of Abram Borisovich Geiro laughing.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
      5. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 15 October 2014 22: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: Cynic
        this is a white bone, supposedly the intelligentsia, who did not serve in the army, believed any nonsense.

        Volodya, hello! Hello!
        About the intelligentsia.
        She was never a "white bone". There are definitions of the type "interlayer" and "rotten". (Classics!)
        Secondly, the intelligentsia is also different: "technical" - moves progress; and "creative", which can strengthen the spirit of the nation (LN Tolstoy, M. Sholokhov, and others), and can engage in black PR and "criticism". And then there are - misunderstood, unappreciated, bypassed, offended, etc. There are deliberate detractors (enemies) who set themselves the goal of overthrowing the ruling system in "this country."
        The officers of the fleet (the third type of intelligentsia) have always been considered the "white bone". The submarine officers, who are rightfully the elite of the Navy and the Armed Forces, have never openly criticized their ships. A fight is another matter! But in the open press - only the "offended" could blow a bubble! But there were few of them, and as a rule, they were out of order.
        About the "roaring cow". The theme is trampled along, across and deeper! But diesel people have nothing to do with it! GTZA gave a specific noise at a speed of more than 8-10 knots.
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 16 October 2014 08: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          About the intelligentsia.
          She was never a "white bone".

          And hello to you, Alexander.
          Starting to read the post, I rushed to watch my own immediately, and realized that all the sorrows from many knowledge.
          It was necessary to enclose the words white bone in quotation marks, and not be clever highlighting with inclined text.
          It turned out very badly, but I hope that many people understood the irony of the post.
          Yes, according to the intelligentsia, this opinion is more clear to me _
          I am not an intellectual, I have a profession
      6. Mih
        Mih 16 October 2014 02: 53 New
        +1
        Loudly said

        With all due respect, I would not treat Marx like that. wink
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 17 October 2014 13: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Mih
          With all due respect, I would not treat Marx this way.

          That's about those who do not belong and said _
      7. mine
        mine 19 October 2014 03: 43 New
        0
        Moreover, the meaning of the term “roaring cows” was very freely interpreted
        objective CHARITY and naturally in a negative sense for our nuclear submarines.
        Met that roaring cow (roaring cow) on cowboys leng is a cow like
        says, on the demolition, looking for a place where to take refuge. Here is someone from the US Navy and
        dubbed our submarines such a nickname, motivating the similarity of situations

        '- nonsense and nonsense
      8. mine
        mine 19 October 2014 03: 44 New
        -1
        Moreover, the meaning of the term “roaring cows” was very freely interpreted
        objective CHARITY and naturally in a negative sense for our nuclear submarines.
        Met that roaring cow (roaring cow) on cowboys leng is a cow like
        says, on the demolition, looking for a place where to take refuge. Here is someone from the US Navy and
        dubbed our submarines such a nickname, motivating the similarity of situations

        '- nonsense and nonsense
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Turik
      Turik 15 October 2014 12: 02 New
      -9
      Why even say that everything is fine if there really are problems?
      Let not as large as foreign sources try to present them to us, but still?

      Excess podzhopnik will not hurt our designers.
      1. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 15 October 2014 16: 54 New
        +9
        Excess podzhopnik will not hurt our designers., and industry leaders, bankers and other "investors and effective hands of drivers" kicking, kicking
    4. edge
      edge 15 October 2014 14: 43 New
      27
      Quote: Alf
      Finally, another myth about the backwardness of the Soviet military-industrial complex has been dispelled.

      how tired of the cries of cheers-idiots that everything is bad with us: technique-d ... mo, people-drunks ..... And the fact that we have smashed faces over obscurantism over centuries, silent creatures.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. 97110
      97110 15 October 2014 17: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Alf
      I wonder how many Amer’s admirals lost such stars after such maneuvers.

      I read once about the war in the Pacific. After a major double (per night) defeat, the Yankees from jeps, according to the results of the investigation, decided that no one should be punished because of the large number of perpetrators.
    7. ALABAY45
      ALABAY45 15 October 2014 20: 56 New
      +2
      I do not think that they have lost their "stars" ... As, as usual, they reported an incredible number of sunken nuclear submarines of the USSR, the Russian Federation ... The ideologists, after all, of the Ukrainian p.i.z.d.j.a. about unprecedented peremog ...
    8. GRAMARI111
      GRAMARI111 16 October 2014 13: 33 New
      +4
      The degree of madness "incredible sensations about Russia" by some Ukrainian media is growing rapidly. Several Ukrainian news sites reported on the "beginning of the Chinese army invasion of the Far East."
      1. Sling
        Sling 16 October 2014 15: 55 New
        +1
        Less to you, but this stupid news.
    9. tkhonov66
      tkhonov66 16 October 2014 17: 50 New
      +1
      How the Soviet submarine K-10 knocked out the US nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise with a volley of SHIT.

      http://forum.awd.ru/viewtopic.php?f=980&t=61572
      - see post # 5 on 24 Feb 2011, 22:59
      with big letters and color pictures.

      Fire on the US aircraft carrier Enterprise, damaged by a volley of shit from the Soviet submarine K-10.

      The fire caused on the US aircraft carrier "Enterprise" by a volley of shit from the Soviet submarine K-10 and its consequences on
      1. Delta
        Delta 16 October 2014 21: 47 New
        0
        beautiful fairy tale
      2. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 17 October 2014 12: 08 New
        0
        Lord, why are you reposting these feces. Well, after all, "jaundice" is unbearable!
    10. mine
      mine 18 October 2014 17: 30 New
      0
      The article is miserable and illiterate.
      The topic has been studied and professionally described (see, for example, Parkhomenko)
    11. mine
      mine 19 October 2014 02: 56 New
      0
      The article is a dumb and illiterate propaganda vyser.
      From real:
      "In general, it seems to me that the work carried out to reduce the noise level of pr.971 nuclear submarines with the aim of having it commensurate with that of the American Los Angeles (there was a corresponding resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR) could not be fully implemented for purely technological reasons Yes, and the second, light hull introduced its component into the ship's acoustic field, which was successfully used by a potential enemy to detect submarines in the infrasonic range. "
      - Captain 1 of rank Kopev, 1989-1996 authorized Pacific group of the Permanent Commission for the State Acceptance of Navy Ships
      V.N.Parkhomenko
      "Complex application of acoustic protection means to reduce vibration and noise of ship equipment"
      SPb "Morintech" 2001

      [79K]



      more (from Parkhomenko)
      “The feasibility of switching to single-hull architecture in the interest of reducing noise is confirmed by many experts in the field of ship acoustics. However, this transition means a radical breakdown of the whole concept of their design. The need has ripened, but the decision is being restrained by conservatively-minded designers using the insufficiently principled position of Navy specialists here ... .... The possibility of placing additional acoustic protection means between two hulls (strong and light for a two-hull submarine) is beyond doubt. The only question is that there are no such means (the necessary nomenclature and effectiveness) and is not expected in the foreseeable future, and each building is a powerful additional source of noise. The proposal to create significantly thickened lightweight hulls is nothing more than an unreasonable attempt to create a submarine with two strong hulls ....... Two-hull submarines in modern conditions have lost and, apparently, will not be able to regain their original right to be called “hidden vessels” ”
  2. avia12005
    avia12005 15 October 2014 10: 04 New
    12
    Well, sho, Poles, are you thinking about war with Russia?
    1. Jager
      Jager 15 October 2014 20: 20 New
      +2
      The Poles will first launch a satellite into space, and then they will surely fight laughing
  3. fzr1000
    fzr1000 15 October 2014 10: 12 New
    15
    Excellent article.
    1. Al_lexx
      Al_lexx 15 October 2014 19: 39 New
      +3
      +1

      Thanks for the great article. The author is a well-deserved plus.
  4. Consul-t
    Consul-t 15 October 2014 10: 23 New
    +2
    Here's a kick in the ass for them.
    PR managers x renov.
    1. goose
      goose 15 October 2014 10: 49 New
      +1
      As if the real statistics on incidents, the massive construction of nuclear submarines in the United States, as well as the size of the drug traffic delivered through the Gulf of Mexico mini-submarines speak indirectly "FOR" the secrecy of any submarines. And if their size does not exceed 2 kilotons, then this is generally fantastic.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Silhouette
    Silhouette 15 October 2014 10: 30 New
    -38
    The article is one-sided, it does not smell of objectivity, there are a lot of grammatical and stylistic errors. The look of an amateur who has never been in a solid case.
    1. Velikoruss
      Velikoruss 15 October 2014 10: 54 New
      +8
      Very interesting. Arguing.
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 15 October 2014 12: 00 New
        -21
        Excuse me
        It should be noted that not only Soviet shipbuilders faced noise problems, and if we were able to immediately create a combat nuclear submarine capable of serving, then the Americans had more serious problems with their firstborn.


        It was not written in Russian, an illiterate verbal construction was created. In one sentence, two sentences are combined, different in meaning.

        To achieve this, they abandoned twoхhull boats going to one and a halfоcorpus


        Not only is the comma missing, so the word "double-corpus" is written without "x", and "one-and-a-half" through "a".

        Another pearl:
        just remember the battleships of Iowa.


        Apparently we are talking about battleships of the "Iowa" type. There were no battleships Iowa 1, Iowa 2, etc.
        and if she appearsьXia, then relatemcI should be as careful to her as to information on booking Iowa LC



        With soft signs, the comrade is clearly at odds: where he doesn’t need to, he sculpts, where necessary, he doesn’t.

        Well and so on ... You can endlessly beat a baby, but it doesn’t give me pleasure.
        1. cucujamba
          cucujamba 15 October 2014 12: 57 New
          16
          So is the problem in grammar? Or are you not happy with the content?
          "The article is one-sided, it doesn't smell like objectivity" ???? What does objectivity have to do with it?
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 15 October 2014 13: 38 New
            -15
            Literacy is not only punctuation syntax, but also an indicator of the level of development and maturity of the author. An article is not a conversation in a smoking room. There are even more blunders in the content of the material than in the grammar of the first paragraphs I have analyzed. You can say - "the paragraph is complete!" Well, you know what I mean. When a submarine rams an aircraft carrier, the noise has nothing to do with it. The article is not just one-sided, but also illiterate.
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 15 October 2014 18: 00 New
              +4
              this is an epic and not a legend, so whoever understands understands, and the case with the "Kostroma" of project 945M with "Button Rouge" such as losangeles is a clear physical plus about the collision of masses under water with all the ensuing strength, and for dudes who go to the scupper workshop behind a bucket of clitoral oil, project 949 caused an internal reason rather than an external one, Silhouette is a letter, why are you selling yourself for a small penny? why so, for the sake of everything else?
            2. viruvalge412ee
              viruvalge412ee 15 October 2014 19: 06 New
              13
              Teachers who do not know the practice, only teachers or bad critics. You, as reported, were not immersed ... Or am I mistaken !? The article is positive and does not suffer from one-sidedness. She suffers from the desire to lose the progressive lowering of the positive level of our country in our own strange minds. In short, you understand, I hope, what are we talking about !?
            3. olegglin
              olegglin 15 October 2014 20: 51 New
              18
              Silhouette
              Literacy is not only punctuation syntax, but also an indicator of the level of development and maturity of the author. An article is not a conversation in a smoking room. There are even more blunders in the content of the material than in the grammar of the first paragraphs I have analyzed. You can say - "the paragraph is complete!" Well, you know what I mean. When a submarine rams an aircraft carrier, the noise has nothing to do with it. The article is not just one-sided, but also illiterate.

              I was always proud to serve in the Western Face. Accordingly, I never believed in the reliability of articles written stylistically competently and with correct punctuation, explaining to uninformed readers how poorly Russian (Soviet) nuclear submarines are in technical performance. I know firsthand what a secrecy regime is and why the press received a minimum of information. And the fact that true professionals are not always "friendly" with punctuation and their style is peculiar, I think it can be forgiven them.
            4. ALABAY45
              ALABAY45 15 October 2014 21: 19 New
              +1
              "Only at the very end of the conversation, I offended him, I said:" Captain! You will never be a major! "V.S. Vysotsky ...
            5. Azovian
              Azovian 16 October 2014 08: 41 New
              -7
              Abs. agree, Silhouette. Everything in a person should be fine ... Not literacy betrays the author's narrow profile. Especially when you "climb" ahead of everyone with an article.
            6. Jackob84
              Jackob84 16 October 2014 10: 32 New
              +1
              Quote: Silhouette
              Well, you understand what I mean

              No, we don’t understand.
            7. mine
              mine 18 October 2014 15: 40 New
              0
              Exactly! I completely agree!
            8. mine
              mine 18 October 2014 15: 41 New
              0
              Exactly! I completely agree!
        2. badger1974
          badger1974 15 October 2014 17: 42 New
          +7
          LK Iowa and LK Missouri are of the same type — that is, in the same line of battleships — so it’s in vain to crumble the loaf on the author, the Second World War ended on Misurat. and Iowa was the first-born of this type of LC, I personally agree with the author, and if YOU are a bookwriter, then this is not for you. the censor oglu de march
          1. viruvalge412ee
            viruvalge412ee 15 October 2014 19: 20 New
            +3
            , well, of course, Comrade, Mr. Art. warrant officer-warrant officer. Pordon please ... You-Your-Flag ... Thank you for "crumbling loaf"! . Nice even. Did you serve in the army? , sorry . Do not answer
            1. badger1974
              badger1974 15 October 2014 22: 45 New
              0
              otherwise, Stormos KCHF 1992-94gg, 7th search and rescue brigade of PSS, board 201 "Donbass", boarding 207 "Taman" -operations, removal of refugees from Batumi Sukhumi pier, there is a counter. I was on the one-brig "Absheron" "passenger, there is a photo," Absheron "is white, and my" Donbass ", Sevastopol, Severnaya Bay, 1993
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 16 October 2014 10: 42 New
                +5
                Quote: badger1974
                otherwise, Stormos KCHF 1992-94gg, 7th search and rescue brigade of PSS, board 201 "Donbass", boarding 207 "Taman" -operations, removal of refugees from Batumi Sukhumi pier, there is a counter. I was on the one-brig "Absheron" "passenger, there is a photo," Absheron "is white, and my" Donbass ", Sevastopol, Severnaya Bay, 1993

                Dear comrade "Stormos", I am afraid to be included in the list of "Loshar", but you are clearly confused in the numbering of the brigade and in the events of 1992. The 7th brigade of the PSS (?) Has never been part of the KChF, there was the 8th brigade later transformed into the 3rd brigade of the PSK, to which the PSK "Donbas" pr.596P was assigned (by the way, the military men have a "stupid "the habit to designate your ship not only with the name but also with the project number). "Donbas" did not take part in the evacuation operations from Poti and Sukhumi, "Absheron" was but not "Donbas", the main burden in this matter was borne by the PG. "Yenisei" and BDK, no refugees were evacuated from Batumi, a radio engineering company was evacuated from the area of ​​the Batumi lighthouse of the BDK "Krymsky Komsomolets" pr.1117. Expand my doubts about your service in the Navy!
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 16 October 2014 12: 30 New
                  -4
                  Serg65 -then it means that I spent a couple of years nowhere? of course, then you are either very stupid, or easily mistaken, there were seven troughs in PSB - "Baskunchyak" -baska, "Dauria" -dashka, "Apshiron" -pshyk, "Sevan" -seva, "Taman" - tomka, "Donbass" and "Yamal" - "Yamal trampled into the Baltic in 1990 and did not return to the KChF, 2 more minesweepers were assigned to the brigade, but I have never seen them (at the KChF they were nicknamed - white ducks (toilets) for the characteristic civilian appearance, the assigned base of the brigade of the Novoozerny garrison Donuzlav, I only took the oath there. and left "Taman"
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 17 October 2014 09: 17 New
                    +5
                    badger1974 ... Hey you, the mistake of your parents, you’re still a member of a dro. chili, when they scribbled a tunic at me ... you don’t have to get any scumbag !!! Unlike you, I served in the 8 Black Sea Fleet for years and have vague doubts about your service, why?
                    Firstly, not a single sailor will call his ship a trough.
                    Secondly, the sailor does not take the oath on the ship.
                    Thirdly, minesweepers called soap dishes, and not like not duchki.
                    Fourth, you still did not confirm your chatter about participating in the events of 1992 of the year.
                    Fifthly, the ship composition of the 3rd brigade of the PSK is well known, for 1992. minesweepers were not listed there, there was only POSK "Strelok", but the PSC "Yamal" departed at the Baltic Fleet not in 90, but in 91. I have the honor soldier
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 97110
          97110 15 October 2014 17: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: Silhouette
          Well and so on ... You can endlessly beat a baby, but it doesn’t give me pleasure.
          Such a thing here is usually minded mercilessly. And you see for yourself. I really got too busy - my comrades worry, blogging and dunking nuggets. Unified State Examination, so him ...
          1. Bugor
            Bugor 15 October 2014 21: 40 New
            +4
            You shouldn't be like that. Gr. The silhouette is not aware, apparently, where the expression "beating babies" came from ...
            You cannot "beat" them repeatedly. And even more so, "beat the baby."
            Since gr. Silhouette decided to be the first to raise this topic, take a closer look at his "grammar". You will be surprised.
        5. ALABAY45
          ALABAY45 15 October 2014 21: 15 New
          +2
          "And so on."
          Not a philologist, but after "Well, before" and "a comma is not required ?! The question, of course, is controversial. The eternal struggle between" Russian experts "and" technicians. "An insignificant nuance ... ..
        6. Bugor
          Bugor 15 October 2014 21: 33 New
          +3
          G. Silhouette.
          You, before sending posts, at least type them in Word. Since your presentation is also full of errors. Will you find it or show it yourself?
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 16 October 2014 10: 59 New
            -4
            Thanks to everyone for the criticism. I just want to note that my mistakes are quite acceptable for comments and intolerant of articles. In the comments, jargon, vulgarisms, typos and stylistic flaws are quite acceptable. I have the right to skip the comma, maybe. I do not read and correct my comments.
            1. Alexstalker
              Alexstalker 18 October 2014 13: 52 New
              0
              tady and do not speak! offset ... corrected
            2. The comment was deleted.
        7. viktorR
          viktorR 18 October 2014 00: 50 New
          0
          You can beat an infant endlessly, but it doesn’t give me pleasure
          Judging by the minuses to this comment, is the beating baby you? wink
    2. Firstvanguard
      Firstvanguard 15 October 2014 11: 00 New
      17
      Commentary is one-sided, it does not smell of objectivity. A lot of blaming on grammar and stylistic mistakes (probably affect the noise of the submarine wassat ) Throwing on the fan and the complete lack of specificity.
    3. Good cat
      Good cat 15 October 2014 11: 02 New
      +2
      Indicate where the errors are; the opinion of a professional is always interesting. Why to find fault just like that.
      1. Silhouette
        Silhouette 15 October 2014 12: 10 New
        -23
        On grammatical and stylistic - indicated. And I consider arguing with the author about the noisiness of our nuclear submarines of the first two generations to be as meaningless as proving that black is black and white is white.
        1. Nikolav
          Nikolav 15 October 2014 13: 00 New
          +2
          Unfortunately, there are no statistics, but how many times our submarines were found in similar situations. That there were such cases, I have no doubt. Therefore, we will not throw bonnets into the air ...
        2. Cynic
          Cynic 15 October 2014 13: 13 New
          13
          Quote: Silhouette
          And I consider arguing with the author about the noise of our nuclear submarines of the first two generations

          Yes, it seems that the author did not claim that they were silent.
          You just need to really look at things.
          Quote: Silhouette
          On grammatical and stylistic - indicated.

          Well then, it did not hurt to double-check this post.

          And yet, in military affairs it is customary to remain silent about failures and successes.
          In the first case _ What to brag about, in the second _ The article is shining!
          bully
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 15 October 2014 13: 55 New
            -21
            Yes, it seems that the author did not claim that they were silent.
            You just need to really look at things.


            When it comes to submariners, the reality is even worse than our understanding of it. The number and nature of disasters and serious accidents in our submarine fleet has no analogues in the world. As for the "roaring cows", not only the Americans considered them as such, but also our submariners, who were well aware that they were suicide bombers, if anything. This is not a myth. This is reality
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 15 October 2014 18: 09 New
              +4
              Quote: Silhouette
              our submariners, who were well aware that they were suicide bombers, if that. This is not a myth. This is reality

              Are you on your behalf as a submariner?
              Or is everyone talking about this?

              As I understand now in the subject of several submariners, your opinion?
              hi
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 18: 32 New
                27
                Quote: Cynic
                As I understand now in the subject of several submariners, your opinion?

                I am a submariner by registration. But "in the subject". My answer is:
                - who did not want to serve - did not serve, was known as a "black sheep", such were despised. And when they left the fleet at the first opportunity, they told all sorts of nonsense about "their personal courage" and bad equipment, useless commanders and bad colleagues.
                And since everything is in plain sight on the submarine, any emergency was liquidated by the forces of the compartment, and everyone knew who was hiding under the "human factor"
                Technology refuses only when it is not looked after.
                Quote: Silhouette
                The number and nature of disasters and serious incidents in our submarine fleet has no analogues in the world

                The comrade who wrote this, or NEVER served on ships, or is teaching history on the Internet.
                We with fans of Wikipedia and rumors of OBS are out of the way.
        3. abdrah
          abdrah 15 October 2014 13: 42 New
          15
          Quote: Silhouette
          On grammatical and stylistic - indicated.

          With such instructions, you need to go to the forums of lovers of the Russian language, there you will argue about some kind of word coffee and how to correctly write the word dad, through the letter "O" or through "A".
        4. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 15 October 2014 13: 53 New
          15
          Quote: Silhouette
          And I consider arguing with the author about the noisiness of our nuclear submarines of the first two generations to be as meaningless as proving that black is black and white is white.


          Yeah, I don’t know the material, but I have an opinion. laughing
          When reading the grammar, we already understood, you unfold this statement to us -

          Quote: Silhouette
          The article is one-sided, it does not smell of objectivity


          and then slashed off the shoulder and gradually slipped off the topic.
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 15 October 2014 14: 28 New
            -2
            Yeah, I don’t know the material, but I have an opinion


            The fact is that at the very exercises "Tim Spirit", which the author mentions, I was on board the very same BOD that ensured the breakthrough of our nuclear submarine into the AUG order. Under the bottom. Then the escort ships almost drove us out on the sides. But there was a storm, and we have a flag according to the international code of signals "I am unable to control". So, a breakthrough under an aircraft carrier was a whole operation of the Pacific Fleet, possible only in peacetime, and it is ridiculous and naive to draw conclusions on its basis about the noiselessness of our boats.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 15 October 2014 15: 50 New
              11
              Quote: Silhouette
              The number and nature of disasters and serious incidents in our submarine fleet has no analogues in the world.


              Obviously, you possess information not only on our fleet, but also on the rest of the fleets of the world, could you please provide data on all fleets of the world on submarine accidents so that we can verify your statement.
              Thank you in advance. hi
              1. Silhouette
                Silhouette 15 October 2014 16: 14 New
                -16
                "Google" in hand - and you will be happy. good
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 16 October 2014 12: 43 New
                  0
                  Google helps only in general terms of information, and reliability only in a personal touch with history, sitting asshole on a chair, history will not be closer to you. evolve
            2. gray
              gray 15 October 2014 19: 32 New
              10
              But during the war, a breakthrough for an aircraft carrier is not needed. You need to find the enemy and just go to the range of weapons.
              1. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 15 October 2014 23: 10 New
                +6
                Quote: gray
                But during the war, a breakthrough for an aircraft carrier is not needed. You need to find the enemy and just go to the range of weapons.

                If only it were that simple!
                I give the opinion of the commander of the warhead 1 (navigator) plarck pr. 675, subsequently cap 2 rank A. Ostrovsky:
                “At the next communication session through the periscope, we found an 'adversary.' He was walking a direct course of 270 degrees. Clearly to the West at a speed of 27 knots, all in lights. The distance to him was 75-80 kbt. Commander 2nd Rank Captain Aleksandrov, based on the silhouettes of the discovered ships, determined that not just a frigate, but the atomic frigate URO Bendbridge should be with the Enterprise Enterprise, about which I reported to OKP Pacific Fleet. We conducted two "conditional" torpedo attacks, and then two more missile attacks. Then everything looked beautiful on paper. In life, the probability of attacking and destroying them was close to 2% " Believe me, the navigators are not accustomed to lying, they give recommendations to the commander! - they both have a ship and crew behind them.
                (http://topwar.ru/30118-plark-k-48-proekta-675-boevaya-sluzhba-1966-god)
                I can reassure you: it was the 1 generation and the 1966 year. Now we have the 4 generation anti-ship missiles, they are quieter than civilians and the launch of the anti-ship missiles is underwater, the missiles are smarter and so on ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Boa kaa
                    Boa kaa 16 October 2014 17: 01 New
                    +6
                    Quote: badger1974
                    the frigate URO Natevsky carries on itself and PLUR SABROK and newer ASROK is my friend's proactive nuclear weapons.

                    Colleague, I suggest: flies - separately, cutlets - separately! (c)
                    Bainbridge could not carry SABROK, since this is a submarine complex.
                    Secondly, ASROK’s head does not have to be YaB, it can also be a small-sized homing electric torpedo (MK-44, God forbid, memory).
                    Thirdly, the frigate is not MRK, it is for especially gifted sea flies.
                    Quote: badger1974
                    vain gossip, unconvincing

                    Are you talking to me!? If so, then I consider this an insult, which I clearly did not deserve ... Therefore, I consider it below the level of the waterline to engage in a professional conversation with you.
                    Good luck.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Boa kaa
                        Boa kaa 17 October 2014 00: 56 New
                        +3
                        Quote: badger1974
                        SABROK for PL? Hmm, then really we have nothing to continue talking about,

                        I agree! But you are so convinced of your ignorance that you can affect the knowledge of the righteous of the site! And I can’t let you do this. LIES SHOULD BE UNDERSTANDED UNIVERSALLY! (Sic!) For non-sailors of the site:
                        "In 1965, the UUM-44" Subroc "anti-submarine guided missile (PLUR) entered service with the US Navy's nuclear submarines. Until 1990, the vast majority of American multipurpose submarines were equipped with these PLURs. the engine starts, the bottom cover is shot off, and the rocket makes a controlled movement on the underwater section of the trajectory.After exiting the water, it flies at supersonic speed to a given area, At the calculated point of the trajectory, at the command of the on-board control system, a reversible rocket engine is switched on, which ensures the separation of the warhead from missiles. The detection of enemy submarines and the generation of data for firing is provided by the ASBU of the submarine. It allows attacking several targets with both Subroc anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes. For firing, a conventional 533-mm torpedo tube is used. " http://ship.bsu.by/weapon/1000036
            3. Igarr
              Igarr 15 October 2014 22: 04 New
              +4
              Oh, and the whistler ..... like all sailors ...
              with such a flag, you wouldn’t be pushing the sides, but you would be removed by helicopters.
              And of course the storm. But what about. Points 35 probably not?
              ....
              Damn, guys, sailors, well, do not let die sucker.
              This is when it happened (except for Angola), so that the ORDER would push the BOD board?
              Yes, even in a storm. In the winter. In the North Atlantic.
              Tell me.
              1. Silhouette
                Silhouette 16 October 2014 11: 27 New
                -1
                Damn, guys, sailors, well, do not let die sucker.
                This is when it happened (except for Angola), so that the ORDER would push the BOD board?
                Yes, even in a storm. In the winter. In the North Atlantic.
                Tell me.


                Okay, let's not let a good person die. Let me explain. The Tim Spirit exercises took place not in the North Atlantic, but in the Sea of ​​Japan. The BOD did not push the order with its sides, of course, but performed the task in conditions of poor visibility (low cloud cover, rain with a storm) to approach the aircraft carrier at a distance of several cables. Naturally, why this was done, we did not know and did not understand then, for it was a clear violation of the rules of navigation. But the task was completed, coming up very close. Maybe the commander knew everything. Because of the storm, the helicopters and aircraft of the aircraft carrier's air group could not interfere with us, but the security was very active.
            4. The comment was deleted.
            5. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 15 October 2014 22: 59 New
              +6
              Quote: Silhouette
              I was on board the very BOD, which ensured the breakthrough of our submarines in the AUG order. Under the bottom.

              Brother! You mold a hunchback! The fact that the NK "under the bottom of the boat" knows the Pacific Fleet and the Central Command Center of the Navy! (OKP TOF).
              Question: Were you the Navy OD, or Com Pacific Fleet ??? bully
              1. Igarr
                Igarr 15 October 2014 23: 30 New
                +2
                No, the boa constrictor ...
                He was not an operative Dej ..
                at that time he stole an order
                sheathing 61 projects.
              2. Silhouette
                Silhouette 16 October 2014 11: 36 New
                0
                : wassat Not at all. Everything is much simpler. The boat was from Pavlovsk, and my BOD was based in a neighboring bay. We all lived in the same village - in Texas. Classmates, neighbors, friends, then yes ... vodka, again very much helps to clarify the situation and clarify the truth, which is known to a narrow circle of people ...
                Now you understand?
                1. Boa kaa
                  Boa kaa 16 October 2014 17: 18 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Silhouette
                  : wassat Not at all. Everything is much simpler. Classmates, neighbors, friends, then yes ... the truth that is known to a narrow circle of people ...
                  Now you understand?

                  Respected. In special cases, the combat order for the boat was written by the Nach Opera and the NSh of the fleet, and handed it over at the Kom Fleet pier, at the last handshake, with a reminder - to open it after immersion in _h._m (or with the arrival at the first reference point). And that bodyag who fought K * was a cover. The Americans were looking for us along it, pulling the PLS to the strip of the "flashed" deployment route ...
                  But in a close circle, over a glass of tea, when they were figuring out "where were you at such and such a time?" suddenly it turns out that in the same place as you, but on top! And during the posting - only "a narrow circle of limited persons"! But best of all - after comparing the discrete, and if the move coincides, then in general - ICE! So they climbed through Gibraltar to Mediterranean unnoticed. Which in itself is a masterpiece! commanding art.
                  But in general, anything can happen: sometimes a scrap pops up! IMHO.
                2. viktorR
                  viktorR 18 October 2014 01: 06 New
                  0
                  You would have tied it up with vodka, otherwise you would have written how many fairy tales ...
        5. viruvalge412ee
          viruvalge412ee 15 October 2014 19: 27 New
          +3
          Even interesting! Sorry, with respect, you served in the army !?
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 16 October 2014 01: 09 New
        13
        Quote: Good cat
        Indicate where the errors

        Dim, an article with the good intention of "whitewashing our fleet". This is a good aspiration. But it must be based on facts. The facts given by the author are interesting and informative. And this is a big plus. But he is not a submariner, and probably not even a sailor. Therefore, there are annoying "inaccuracies".
        1. One and a half and two-hull submarines. The reasoning about survivability is correct, but about the submersion depth and speed of the submarine - not quite. The depth is determined by the yield strength of the hull steel from which the strong submarine hull is made. One-and-a-half and single-hull submarines are lighter, so the speed, other things being equal, is higher. It is not for nothing that our two-hull 949 pr. Was called a "water carrier".
        2. The statement that "it is practically impossible not to evade the attack, nor to destroy the submarine in the presence of a high speed of the nuclear submarine" (?) Boats, breaking away from the pursuit, are piloting helicopters and airplanes at the RGABs. On their control center, you can use SABROK, other weapons. But there is one interesting thing, the Mk-60 Captor is called. The Mk-48 torpedo runs at a speed of 50 (60) knots. The high-speed triangle (aka torpedo) is solved and the MK-48 goes to the meeting point. The response radius of the seeker is 2,0 km ...
        3. Shooting with H = 1000m is possible, but only USET-80. But no one will shoot from the maximum depth of the torpedo. I heard about TS-600, TS-800, and TC-1000, alas, I have not heard. MOT does not work out with a self-propelled gun: devices without gratings.
        4. There is no "axis of the earth's underwater channel", there is the axis of the SZK - the underwater sound channel.
        5. The statement that "it is impossible to find a submarine below 800m by any means" does not correspond to the truth. There are flexible extended HF antennas operating in the low-frequency spectrum, magnetometers, equipment for detecting a radiation trace, etc.
        6. The American MK-48 goes to a depth of 800m. They consider it sufficient for modern Pl.
        7. Yes, the Fin could walk at H = 1000m, but you can't be on it all the time: the slightest crack from fatigue of the titanium alloy and the end! Titanium is brittle. 48-T alloy had a yield strength of 75kgs / mm2
        Quote: Nicholas
        let's not throw caps in the air ...

        Right! The Yankees also had Thresher and Scorpio. "Baton Rouge" also went under the knife. These are facts. Amers have a bad trait - to extol their own and belittle others' achievements. This also applies to the PL. They shout about the lag only when it is necessary to knock money out of Congress for new types of weapons.
        Quote: Cynic
        You just need to really look at things.

        Therefore, the conclusion of the article is somewhat incorrect. For example, 675 has long been decommissioned. Opponent opposition can be insurmountable. Especially when forcing narrownesses, when all the forces of the submarine are massaged. Then, without the help of the remaining forces of the fleet, it is possible not to enter the Ocean.
        But in general, the article is interesting and the facts are selected with taste. Their interpretation was a bit disappointing, but this is a matter of experience.
        1. Al_lexx
          Al_lexx 16 October 2014 09: 03 New
          +1
          The titanium is brittle. 48-T alloy had a yield strength of 75 kgf / mm 2

          Nonsense! Titanium is just a very viscous metal. Very good forged, better than steel. You just never processed it yourself.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 17 October 2014 01: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Al_lexx
            Nonsense! Titanium is just a very viscous metal. Very good forged, better than steel. You just never processed it yourself.
            Alexey, hello!
            You are right - I am a sailor, not a metallurgist. Knowledge from the professionals, their stories about the technology of processing titanium cases and complaints about its fragility, which gives cracks ... Maybe they also "poured a bullet". I climbed to look, and you know, They are right somewhere (The truth is somewhere nearby!)
            "Titanium was discovered by German and English chemists Gregor and Klaproth independently of each other with a difference of six years. It happened at the end of the 18th century. The substance immediately took place in the periodic system of Mendeleev. Three decades later, the first sample of metallic titanium was obtained. And for a long time the metal was not used because of its fragility. Exactly until 1925. "
            http://www.uznayvse.ru/interesting-facts/samyiy-tverdyiy-metall-v-mire.html
            I'm about titanium. You can talk about alloys for a long time. They are already malleable, etc. You better know!
            Sincerely.
            1. Alexstalker
              Alexstalker 17 October 2014 01: 39 New
              0
              you are talking nonsense !!! study metal science and not chemistry
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Firstvanguard
              Firstvanguard 17 October 2014 20: 12 New
              0
              The ambush is not in titanium itself or its alloys, here are a few times that all tip-tops and the obtained characteristics are enough with a margin (except for the price wassat ), an ambush in the welding of titanium and the strength characteristics of the seam and okloshno zone soldier

              Sincerely, Welding Technologist hi
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 17 October 2014 20: 14 New
                +1
                Quote: Firstvanguard
                ambush in welding of titanium and strength characteristics of a seam and okloshno zone

                So in an inert gas, not yesterday they came up with cooking wink
                1. Andrey NM
                  Andrey NM 18 October 2014 11: 15 New
                  +1
                  I fully support Boa kaa, aviation is the main enemy of the submariner, these reptiles are poorly audible, and they still dunk antennas and throw buoys. We had an acoustician, a team leader, very experienced. I remember his report to the central one: "T-commander, I hear something like plops, as if something fell into the water." I also thought, wow, is this even possible? As it turned out, sometimes it is possible. The plane threw buoys. And if a plane or helicopter is flying low, you can hear it too. He later showed me the differences in the noise of different types of targets, but I still didn't quite understand. Here you also need a musical ear.

                  About 675 project. Here someone referred to the actions of the K-10 pl under the command of k.2r. Ivanova. At the department of tactics in VVMUPP was the former commander of the pl 675 project k.1.r. Ivanov Nikolay (I don't remember the middle name). For some reason, he had the nickname "Kolya - quiet g ...". It was said about him that it was he who "drove" the AUG. If there is a VVMUPPovtsy here in the early 80s, they must remember him. Such a little rostic with a constant grin on his face, figs you will understand what his mood is.

                  About titanium. It has a very bad property, it burns. It also joins with nitrogen, it turns out such a powder. It is useless to extinguish, it does not extinguish with water, only with solid powder, sand or another similar method. A simple localization of the source of ignition occurs. And there were difficulties with welding.

                  About welding. Welding is generally a complicated science. Good welders - well, I just respect them laughing. Before loading the product, we began to notice that the paintwork swells and falls off over large areas. The guarantee workers clutched their heads, for a long time they could not defeat the problem, repeated priming and painting led to the same result, although all technologies were followed. It turned out that in the production of introduced electron beam welding. During welding, material ions evaporated and deposited in the crystal lattice of the product material. Then the product was washed and painted, and these ions then reacted ... in short, the paint fell off in layers. And you just had to wipe it with vinegar, then they dopped it. Respectfully for welding technologists wink
                2. Firstvanguard
                  Firstvanguard 19 October 2014 07: 41 New
                  0
                  So in an inert gas, not yesterday came up with a wink

                  In inert and cook wink But even when welding ferrous metals, the seam is inferior in strength to the base metal, the reason for this is thermal stresses and changes in the structure of the metal in the heat-affected zone, also due to thermal exposure.
              2. Alexstalker
                Alexstalker 18 October 2014 13: 56 New
                0
                Here you are right !!! Titanium is TITANIUM.
              3. The comment was deleted.
    4. badger1974
      badger1974 15 October 2014 17: 36 New
      +5
      well, if you visit, you don’t understand anything at all, dullness, you won’t go from compartment to compartment, you’re just an idala and even a bunch of systems. even some people start to love, there is air being driven, there is water, the air is more pleasant to hear, it immediately smells invisibly on the surface, and the cavitation gurgling sound in the system, even the grave smacks invisibly, is something like life in the melt
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 97110
        97110 15 October 2014 17: 52 New
        +3
        Quote: badger1974
        you will not cross, some bala and the same, a lot of systems

        Is it you Troll Silhouette? Evil...
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 15 October 2014 22: 57 New
          -2
          in fact, oh ... but if you drown in a ballast, so there is no fear, on the contrary, the guitar plus the team who are not on duty, there are no norms, the only thing on the rafting is good, there are no pumping, and on the surface the Siberians are already slime in the ghall from the beginning
        2. Alexstalker
          Alexstalker 18 October 2014 14: 00 New
          0
          'loving' to think sometimes
        3. The comment was deleted.
      3. Igarr
        Igarr 15 October 2014 22: 57 New
        +2
        Badger ..... sabaka ... killed .... ".. cavitation gurgling sound in the system, even smells like a grave invisibly .."
        .
        Who has not been in sealed closed systems for a long time ... he will not understand.
        Here to live ...
      4. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 15 October 2014 23: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: badger1974
        it smacks of the grave invisibly, for about the same way life is in the melt

        God forbid you once again set foot on the deck of a boat! And if you go inside, consider yourself a dead man! am
        Submarine is absolutely contraindicated for you! Go to the military registration and enlistment office and sign up for the "cart" ... with a horse! And you will also be a "submariner"! But it will be yours in spirit and way of thinking! And without violence against the person!
        Good luck!
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 16 October 2014 09: 27 New
          -3
          So we have only one Varshavyanka and Ukradinskaya Zaporizhzha (a bug of the 641st project) at the KChF, the Ukrainians did not even take the THUNDERSTORM of the Pontic Sea, and so, for the sake of form, I’ll go to retire next year, I’ll start to do it right away, although here in Crimea such a trick, sailors and paratroopers are sent for a second medical examination, all people are like people, and we run around clinics and laboratories, what do I think, is it connected with the Mistrals? Bo retire from the "armor" of the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and then a set on Mistral , although I would even be delighted, the Mistral Sevastopol will be assigned to Vladivostok, and I have Kents there, to free the Far East for free, it would be sensible
  6. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 15 October 2014 10: 40 New
    +5
    It was nice to read and feel pride in Soviet submarines, the actions of which did not let the hair on the heads of the Americans calm down!
    Let's hope that the shipbuilding school of the Russian submarine fleet is not lost and we will still hear and read about the next successful campaign of our submarines !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 15 October 2014 11: 07 New
    -23
    Again, just shouts of hurray and nothing more, the author did not sit in a solid case, but saw the submarine in the picture. Unfortunately, Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship, the destroyer Victoria, sunk on August 31, 1919 by the Russian submarine Panther near the island of Seskar in the Baltic. The author should have asked the submariners how the SSBNs went on alert.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 15 October 2014 11: 20 New
      +9
      Quote: nnnnnn
      The author had to ask the submariners how SSBNs went on combat duty.

      Don’t you share it yourself?
      hi
      1. nnnnnn
        nnnnnn 15 October 2014 11: 27 New
        -1
        ZINIKU !!!!!!!!!! three autonomous regions, 25th division, 2th flotilla of nuclear submarines, Pacific Fleet, KGA Instrumentation and Measurement Institute, alma mater SVVMIU 1 faculty, so relax son.
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 15 October 2014 11: 49 New
          12
          Quote: nnnnnn
          so relax son.

          Attack, the best form of defense, it’s clear, but who are we defending against?
          Quote: Cynic
          Don’t you share it yourself?

          It was said for good luck and suddenly such luck (absolutely seriously)
          Quote: nnnnnn
          three autonomies, 25 division, 2 flotilla of nuclear submarines, Pacific Fleet, KGA Instrumentation Control Institute, Alma Mater SVVMIU 1 faculty

          I repeat again _
          Quote: Cynic
          Don’t you share it yourself?

          drinks
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 15 October 2014 13: 56 New
          16
          Quote: nnnnnn
          so relax son.


          Son? You so call your buddies in the pub.

          Parents of courtesy towards strangers did not teach?
        3. Signore Tomato
          Signore Tomato 15 October 2014 21: 59 New
          +2
          Looks like grandfather's stories do not allow you to sit on the pope evenly.
    2. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 15 October 2014 12: 07 New
      13
      Quote: nnnnnn
      Unfortunately, the Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship destroyer "Victoria" sunk on August 31, 1919


      "Connoisseur" sofa. The name Marinescu, naturally, does not mean anything to you. And its own history of the Navy too. How many of you have gotten a lot of snot belolentochnyh, homegrown liberals. I hate it when the usual ignorance of the issue is passed off as the truth.
      At least repent that you were wrong.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 15 October 2014 12: 34 New
        +4
        He said "battleship", and Marinesco sank the liner "Wilhelm Gustloff".
        1. tolancop
          tolancop 15 October 2014 13: 21 New
          +4
          Marinesco drowned NOT a warship. But the end result was much higher than the destruction of the BATTLE ship. The Germans were not stupid and also primarily drowned TRANSPORTS ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 15 October 2014 14: 02 New
          +9
          Quote: Zymran
          He said "battleship", and Marinesco sank the liner "Wilhelm Gustloff".


          He was a liner before being transferred to the German Navy.
          Marinesco drowned the floating barracks, the military ship itself was a unit of the German Navy.
        4. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 October 2014 01: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: Zymran
          He said "battleship", and Marinesco sank the liner "Wilhelm Gustloff".

          And what about the auxiliary cruiser "Steuben"?
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 16 October 2014 23: 06 New
            -1
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            And what about the auxiliary cruiser "Steuben"?

            The Germans did not have a cruiser called "Steuben", and Marinesko was awarded for sinking the cruiser "Emden" or am I confusing something? But the cruiser "Emden" at that time was undergoing repairs at the shipyard in Kiel, where it was sunk after the Allied air raid.
    3. Alexstalker
      Alexstalker 15 October 2014 12: 57 New
      +5
      and in the second world war? I mean during the Second World War. How many drowned Nazi Nazis.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Cynic
      Cynic 15 October 2014 12: 59 New
      +5
      Quote: nnnnnn
      Unfortunately, Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship

      Submarines of other states drowned warships with squadrons?
      You have shifted the emphasis, which is surprising for me, after you indicate the place of your service.
      Submarines were to impede the supply of enemy troops by sea.
      As far as I remember, there are cases in the history when the order ships substituted their sides under the torpedoes to ensure the fulfillment of the task.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 15 October 2014 14: 21 New
        +9
        Quote: Cynic
        Submarines of other states drowned warships with squadrons?


        This is called competent juggling.

        Quote: Cynic
        You have shifted the emphasis, which is surprising for me, after you indicate the place of your service.
        Submarines were to impede the supply of enemy troops by sea.


        The most important thing is to stand in a pose and make a pathos and illiterate statement, while humiliating the exploit of submariners.
    6. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 15 October 2014 13: 01 New
      +2
      Quote: nnnnnn
      Unfortunately, Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship, the destroyer Victoria, sunk on August 31, 1919

      Come on. Are there any more warships?
      1. jjj
        jjj 15 October 2014 14: 06 New
        +3
        Offhand, Lunin, with subsequent refinements according to German documents, were counted as a boat hunter
        1. Silhouette
          Silhouette 15 October 2014 14: 42 New
          -7
          The submarine hunter falls short of the ship. In the navy, a battleship starts with "rank 3", everything before it is boats. This is in terms of displacement. But a large barge is also not a ship. A worthy target for a submarine is warships, primarily ships of rank 1-2. Starting from the destroyer.
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 16 October 2014 01: 25 New
            +6
            Quote: Silhouette
            Worthy targets for a submarine are warships, primarily ships of the 1-2 rank. Starting from the destroyer.
            It is immediately clear that he is not a submariner! The main target is tankers and vehicles! Lunin drowned a 5-thousander with sheepskin coats, and the entire GA "Sever" froze like tsutsiki! Similarly, when a tanker was sunk, the tank army froze without a move, the offensive was thwarted!
            And you are the destroyer!
      2. Silhouette
        Silhouette 15 October 2014 14: 32 New
        -1
        Come on. Are there any more warships?


        BATTLE. SHIP. Yes. Not a single one. Not drowned.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 15 October 2014 15: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: Silhouette
          BATTLE. SHIP. Yes. No one.

          You probably mean 1 and 2 ranks.
          28.08.1943/639/XNUMX The Soviet submarine sunk a German submarine U-XNUMX
          1. Silhouette
            Silhouette 15 October 2014 15: 16 New
            -6
            Yes, I meant surface ships. At that time, anti-submarine missions were not set for submariners. And the destruction of enemy submarines can be attributed to chance. In addition, (unfortunately) our submariners during the years of World War II were not able to sink a larger enemy warship than this boat, with a total displacement of just over 750 tons.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 15 October 2014 15: 57 New
              +3
              Quote: Silhouette
              At that time, anti-submarine missions were not set for submariners.


              It was necessary to start with this!
          2. Akvadra
            Akvadra 15 October 2014 17: 53 New
            +6
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Quote: Silhouette
            BATTLE. SHIP. Yes. No one.

            You probably mean 1 and 2 ranks.
            28.08.1943/639/XNUMX The Soviet submarine sunk a German submarine U-XNUMX

            But "Tirpitz" was broken so that he did not regain consciousness until the end of the war. So he died in the fjord.
        2. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 16 October 2014 01: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Silhouette
          BATTLE. SHIP. Yes. Not a single one. Not drowned.

          Magomed Gadzhiev drowned artillery by watchdogs and minesweepers!
    7. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 15 October 2014 13: 48 New
      +6
      Quote: nnnnnn
      Unfortunately, Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship, the destroyer Victoria, sunk on August 31, 1919 by the Russian submarine Panther near the island of Seskar in the Baltic.


      Matiyasevich Alexey Mikhailovich - Successful ram U-479,
      Mogilevsky Sergey Sergeevich - Destroyed 2 torpedo boats (T-3 and T-5), 1 submarine Yu-367 and disabled the destroyer Z-43 until the end of the war.

      Quote: nnnnnn
      The author had to ask the submariners how SSBNs went on combat duty.


      And it wouldn’t be bad for you to go back to your desk and learn the history of the Soviet submarine fleet.

      On photo:

      The commander of the submarine K-3 captain-lieutenant K.I. Malafeev at the periscope.

      Malafeev Kuzma Ivanovich was born in 1909 year. Member of the Winter War 1939-40 years in the Baltic Fleet. The commander of a submarine of the XIV series, type “Cruising” K-3 (May 1941 — March 1943). In the period from 14 to 31 on March, 1943 died with a boat in a military campaign in the area of ​​the Porsanger Fjord.

      The K-3 submarine under the command of Malafeev on 3 on December 1941 conducted the most effective artillery battle in the history of the Soviet submarine fleet - against three German ships, sinking one ship (UJ 1708) and damaging another (UJ 1403).
    8. jjj
      jjj 15 October 2014 14: 03 New
      +6
      Of course, German, Japanese, Italian, English and American boats sank exclusively warships.
    9. badger1974
      badger1974 15 October 2014 23: 00 New
      -2
      Well, yes, but Karl Guslav himself drew himself, YoYo nenenenenenie romale, how is the Aral? not pissed looking for? bo we go to you
  8. zoknyay82
    zoknyay82 15 October 2014 11: 11 New
    10
    What the Yankees have learned is propaganda, everything is the most advanced, but in fact paper tigers fight against militarily backward countries from ten thousand meters.
  9. Delta
    Delta 15 October 2014 11: 13 New
    +6
    Under the photograph of "Kostroma" is not "Baton Rouge", but the nuclear submarine "San Francisco" after collision with an underwater rock.

    By the way, "Komsomolets" fired torpedo fire not at 1000 meters, but at 800 meters. Accuracy when writing articles will not hurt.
    And please don't call the sub a "ship"
    1. agate
      agate 15 October 2014 11: 42 New
      +3
      Submariners call their submarine only a ship !.
      1. kyznets
        kyznets 15 October 2014 13: 18 New
        +5
        And the surface soldiers (military) call their ships ships, since a VESSEL HAVING ARMS IS A SHIP!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 97110
          97110 15 October 2014 18: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: kyznets
          AVAILABLE ARMS
          sailing or cannon. Therefore "Sedov" is a ship. And Panamax, Aframax, etc. are ships. And pleasure trips - too, no matter how much the broadcast will shout that "our ship ..."
        3. badger1974
          badger1974 16 October 2014 09: 37 New
          0
          generally called the trough to be frank, and the crew plus the trough is called the side, experts
      2. jjj
        jjj 15 October 2014 14: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: agate
        Submariners call their submarine only a ship !.

        Well, calling a steamer is not a sin either
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 16 October 2014 18: 46 New
          0
          Moreover, the submarine is a parachute
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 16 October 2014 01: 32 New
      +5
      Quote: Delta
      "Komsomolets" fired torpedo firing not at 1000 meters, but at 800 meters. Accuracy when writing articles will not hurt.

      Hello, hello! I confirm. After diving on 1027, 20 minutes passed on it, floated on 800 and completed the vehicle. This is from the memoirs of the Deputy Com Flotilla and the midshipman-torpedo.
      1. DRA-88
        DRA-88 16 October 2014 01: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        After diving at 1027m, 20 minutes passed on it, floated up to 800 and completed the vehicle

        Unfortunately, I did not find anything about Komsomolets ....
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 16 October 2014 09: 48 New
          0
          so and in figs you 949 threw out the project, about the Komsomolets the guys have already given the photo above, look, he is Mike according to the classification here (this is a Western military structure) project 685, in contrast to the project 945 Sierra and the strong and light body were made of titanium alloy, Siera only has a strong hull made of such an alloy, and Mike was really very expensive to build, so he was alone in his project, as well as PAPA of project 661 with "amethysts" on board, one like a finger, for which Anchar project 661 succeeded (K-222) to disperse an unprecedented 44 knots under water,
  10. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 15 October 2014 11: 26 New
    +4
    Analyzing the actions and performance characteristics of the boats of the 705K and Plavnik projects, one can come to the conclusion that the fleet needs, first of all, small ones, with a large immersion depth (below the upwelling), with a speed of at least 30 knots and equipped with both torpedoes and mine-based cruise missiles. ... "Shrunken Ash", operating as part of the Wolf Packs. Our American "Partners" have made considerable efforts to quickly withdraw Alpha from the fleet. What our agents of influence have successfully completed and reported
    1. Delta
      Delta 15 October 2014 12: 01 New
      +5
      not everything is so simple. We here once analyzed the capabilities of the same "Alpha". Yes, purely theoretically, "Alpha" can evade a torpedo fired at it if it "hears" it in time. However, torpedo submarines are primarily designed for tracking. HIDDEN. Even if the same "Alpha" (Lyra) goes at a constant speed of more than 20 knots, it will hear nothing but its own noise. Thus, the meaning of its existence is lost (the hunter turns into the pursued one). Well, in addition, you need to remember about the shortcomings (or - features) of the reactor on liquid metal core, which in fact (in particular) led to the fact that the service of these nuclear submarines was short-lived
      1. jjj
        jjj 15 October 2014 14: 09 New
        +1
        At high underwater speeds in the noise compartments, it’s almost impossible to talk
    2. Umnichka
      Umnichka 16 October 2014 01: 28 New
      +2
      You're right, strategist. In July 89th, I was in the last exit of 705th, with a severe nuclear accident (no casualties). Sawed to the needles immediately after the cancellation, the Americans immediately gave the loot to this business, not fools ... and some other decommissioned submarines are still standing at the berths ...
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 16 October 2014 10: 00 New
        0
        and the reactor was BN ?, then npa fast neutrons with liquid sodium in the primary circuit? or water-vodniknik on 705B?
    3. The comment was deleted.
  11. 3vs
    3vs 15 October 2014 11: 34 New
    +4
    In general, glory to our scientists, designers, workers and submariners!
    Keep it up!
  12. Krsk
    Krsk 15 October 2014 14: 02 New
    +5
    If our nuclear submarines are "roaring cows" then they get deaf penguins
  13. havbek76
    havbek76 15 October 2014 14: 27 New
    0
    Until we clash it’s not clear who has cooler roaring cows, bulls and other animals and plants.
  14. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 15 October 2014 14: 49 New
    -6
    Quote: JIaIIoTb
    Quote: nnnnnn
    Unfortunately, the Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship destroyer "Victoria" sunk on August 31, 1919


    "Connoisseur" sofa. The name Marinescu, naturally, does not mean anything to you. And its own history of the Navy too. How many of you have gotten a lot of snot belolentochnyh, homegrown liberals. I hate it when the usual ignorance of the issue is passed off as the truth.
    At least repent that you were wrong.

    As for the Marinesko expensive, he drowned transport, and the Soviet submarine fleet did not drown a single battle ship of the Nazis and their allies !!!!! read the story.
  15. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 15 October 2014 15: 02 New
    -7
    Quote: Karlsonn
    Quote: nnnnnn
    Unfortunately, Soviet submarines in their entire history sank the only warship, the destroyer Victoria, sunk on August 31, 1919 by the Russian submarine Panther near the island of Seskar in the Baltic.


    Matiyasevich Alexey Mikhailovich - Successful ram U-479,
    Mogilevsky Sergey Sergeevich - Destroyed 2 torpedo boats (T-3 and T-5), 1 submarine Yu-367 and disabled the destroyer Z-43 until the end of the war.

    Quote: nnnnnn
    The author had to ask the submariners how SSBNs went on combat duty.


    And it wouldn’t be bad for you to go back to your desk and learn the history of the Soviet submarine fleet.

    On photo:

    The commander of the submarine K-3 captain-lieutenant K.I. Malafeev at the periscope.

    Malafeev Kuzma Ivanovich was born in 1909 year. Member of the Winter War 1939-40 years in the Baltic Fleet. The commander of a submarine of the XIV series, type “Cruising” K-3 (May 1941 — March 1943). In the period from 14 to 31 on March, 1943 died with a boat in a military campaign in the area of ​​the Porsanger Fjord.

    The K-3 submarine under the command of Malafeev on 3 on December 1941 conducted the most effective artillery battle in the history of the Soviet submarine fleet - against three German ships, sinking one ship (UJ 1708) and damaging another (UJ 1403).

    AND YOU NEED TO READ THAT SHIP CLASSIFICATION IS! IT IS SIMPLE THAT THE FIGHT WOULD NOT WRITE and go to this article http://topwar.ru/35704-analiz-effektivnosti-sovetskih-podvodnyh-lodok-v-velikoy-
    otechestvennoy-voyne.html
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 15 October 2014 16: 15 New
      13
      Quote: nnnnnn
      AND YOU NEED TO READ THAT SHIP CLASSIFICATION IS! SIMPLY THAT DON'T WRITE A FIGURE and go to this article


      Yes, do not be nervous. Calm, only calm.
      Actually, before you start a conversation, learn how to correctly formulate your thoughts. And then you declare that -

      Quote: nnnnnn
      the Soviet submarine fleet did not drown a single battle ship of the fascists and their allies !!!!!


      And as you have been put into facts, you immediately start wagging backwards and saying that they are not real warships, SUDDENLY they remembered the classification.

      I claim that U-479, 2 torpedo boats (T-3 and T-5), U-367, destroyer Z-43, UJ 1708 and UJ 1403 are warships of the German Navy that were successfully attacked by Soviet submarines. In response to your ridiculous remark.

      And bullshit. You write here. Once again - before you start telling us the TRUTH here, learn how to correctly formulate your thoughts. It becomes something like this -

      --- unfortunately, Soviet submarines during the Second World War did not drown a single warship of the 1-2 class, although they did not set such a task, the priority was to attack transport convoys and disrupt enemy communications.
  16. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 15 October 2014 15: 05 New
    -21
    Quote: Karlsonn
    Quote: nnnnnn
    so relax son.


    Son? You so call your buddies in the pub.

    Parents of courtesy towards strangers did not teach?

    Fly while and live on the roof with your baby; talk; do not get into a conversation in order to write something!
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 15 October 2014 16: 21 New
      19
      Quote: nnnnnn
      Fly while and live on the roof talk with your baby


      Your rudeness, like nothing else, perfectly characterizes you.

      Quote: nnnnnn
      Do not get into the conversation in order to write something!


      Give advice to your dad, if you have one.

      So far, in your conversations, you have only demonstrated the ability to be rude to strangers and the ability to make sweeping statements. What actually doesn’t color you.

      With all due respect, Karlsonn. hi
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 16 October 2014 08: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: Karlsonn
        With all due respect, Karlsonn.

        nnnnnn do not know _
  17. sdv68
    sdv68 15 October 2014 15: 08 New
    0
    Why not remember http://www.interfax.ru/russia/260541

    The American media discovered a Russian submarine off the coast of the United States


    True, then they refuted this - http://www.interfax.ru/russia/260777

    But "there is no smoke without fire"
  18. nnnnnn
    nnnnnn 15 October 2014 15: 12 New
    -9
    Quote: JIaIIoTb
    Connoisseur of "sofa. The name Marinescu naturally does not mean anything to you.

    He also says how he says, but what about an expert on "sofa" is you comrade. Learn history, at worst google it. Wolf Konovalov was the best in terms of the number and tonnage of enemy ships sunk.
    On January 30, 1945, Alexander Marinesko sank a large German transport "Wilhelm Huslov" in the Baltic Sea, sending 5,5 Nazi soldiers to the bottom.
    Wolf Konovalov on April 17, 1945 sank a large fascist transport "Goya"; there were up to 8 thousand German soldiers on the transport.
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 15 October 2014 15: 29 New
      -13
      To be more precise, the Goya transport carried 4 soldiers (the remnants of the XNUMXth Panzer Division of Germany), XNUMX wounded and about XNUMX refugees.
      According to official figures, 5348 people died at Gustlov, mostly refugees; according to a number of historians, real losses could exceed 9000, including 5000 children.
      The Germans drowned "Armenia" abeam Yalta, where about 5 thousand people died and we consider it a war crime.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 15 October 2014 18: 31 New
        13
        Quote: Silhouette
        To be more precise, then ...

        To be more precise, that is, there is such a thing as trolling, here you are Silhouette and do it.
        I will never believe that you do not know the details of the sinking of "Gustlov" and "Armenia".
        In fact, to equalize the sinking of a hospital ship, with all the signs printed, and the ship going in the warrant is, frankly, not trolling, much worse.
      2. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 18: 40 New
        13
        Quote: Silhouette
        To be more precise, the Goya transport carried 4 soldiers (the remnants of the XNUMXth Panzer Division of Germany), XNUMX wounded and about XNUMX refugees.
        According to official figures, 5348 people died at Gustlov, mostly refugees; according to a number of historians, real losses could exceed 9000, including 5000 children.

        Probably Marinescu should, for a start, come up into the shout, illuminating the lantern, to inquire - are there any refugees on board?
        Quote: Silhouette
        The Germans drowned "Armenia" abeam Yalta, where about 5 thousand people died and we consider it a war crime.

        But what about the flooding of a hospital ship by aviation during daylight hours?
  19. Tektor
    Tektor 15 October 2014 15: 23 New
    +5
    There is one problem that negates all successes in achieving low noise. This is the problem of using weapons in general and torpedoes in particular. At the moment, the boat that used the torpedo will be immediately detected and destroyed. The question is: do we have many boats and crews? A boat of the 21st century should use its torpedo weapons, remaining undetectable. And this means that the torpedo launcher should open silently, the torpedo should also leave the torpedo silently (piston?), The torpedo should move silently at a certain distance (short course 1-10 km), with which it should attack from an oblique angle to the course boats.
    A separate issue is related to modern torpedoes. Their main drawback is the impossibility (or difficulty) of simultaneous salvo during the maneuverable movement of submarines with increased speed. Maybe they already solved this problem in Physics-1? I don’t know.
    1. Delta
      Delta 15 October 2014 15: 50 New
      +5
      Quote: Tektor
      A boat of the 21st century should use its torpedo weapons, remaining undetectable. And this means that the flap of the torpedo tubes should open silently, the torpedo should also quietly leave the torpedo tubes (piston?), The torpedo should move silently at some distance


      torpedo firing with the use of the method of self-exit of torpedoes from the TA has been maximally "denoised". However, there are no silent torpedoes and there will never be, probably never.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 16 October 2014 10: 15 New
      0
      study the face value of the torpedo armament of the underwater sides, I think those. This denomination is made up of more than 20 different torpedo armament controls, ranging from TA 53 cm (nominal about 9-10 torpedoes with different technical capabilities) to TA 63 cm (there are a lot of torpedoes) - these are, first of all, "long-range walkers" by wires 63 -72, ending the VA-111 squall and plus they also fire volleys of submarine-type missile systems of the Waterfall type, the press slipped that the coastal SCRC Uranus was also adapted for underwater boards, in any case, Jane's yearbook clearly and directly insisted that the Soviets, no matter how ever, are increasing the unification of ground air and naval weapons of destruction of the enemy
  20. Prager
    Prager 15 October 2014 15: 34 New
    +3
    our third generation worthy submarines are the answer to the Americans and their military engineering school.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Anton Gavrilov
    Anton Gavrilov 15 October 2014 16: 00 New
    +1
    At the expense of the level of stealth, everything is quite relative both on our and on western boats. At a low speed, for example, 5-10 knots, of course, any boat will be very difficult to detect. And when the boat goes, for example, at 25-30 knots, it is especially difficult in its detection, no-at this speed, the boat "thunders" so that it is audible over the floor of the ocean. In stealth as such, our nuclear submarines were much inferior to the American ones, up to the 3rd generation MPLATRK, before the appearance of Shchuka-B, to be more precise. According to official data, the last submarines of this series were able to surpass the American submarines of the improved Los Angeles type in terms of stealth.

    The lag in secrecy itself is caused by a number of reasons, and first of all not technological, but in conceptual ones. First of all, our boats, in fact, always had larger main dimensions, compared to Western ones. Well, then a whole bunch of reasons: 2- x hull type architectural and structural type, and in a separate case even 3 x hull type, this led to a number of important consequences - significantly increased displacement in the underwater position, and therefore the required power to the power plant to achieve a particular speed increased. Of course, the 2 X-shaft power plant was used with all the consequences, often on multi-purpose boats it was based on the 2 control, in addition there are technological reasons, for example, American boats had much better propulsion (they are propellers) only when Toshiba secretly sold to our country metal cutting machines, we were able to negate the advantage of the Americans.

    But again, in the 3 generation, we made a huge step forward in this area. The result was to fix the 4 generation boats, but since the USSR was gone, the serial construction of the upgraded version of Ashen began unfortunately only now. it doesn’t count on the head, and even with its problems, and with such specific problems during construction. With Yasenem-M we will come very close to the latest generation of American boats, most likely there will be about the same process that went with the construction of the submarine project 971 Pike-B-plan dimensional increase of the level of secrecy of the boat to lodke.Kto knows-maybe the last ship of the series (and there will be more clearly today ordered 6-7) and will be able to surpass the US in the level of secrecy of Virginia?
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 16 October 2014 10: 29 New
      0
      here I am in solidarity, the customer of the nuclear submarine was always categorical, the nuclear submarine had to have a double margin of safety, this also applies to the power plant, judge for yourself. Natev submarines have repair bases all over the world. The USSR bases, once or twice, have worked out, therefore, the norms of one-reactor manning have been adopted, ours are all two-reactor and all are two-shaft, in this role one cannot do without a turbo-gear unit, and it makes a dashing noise, therefore, an Archimedes screw was invented at 2 nodal speed (I advise will get acquainted), on the project 941 yon is (this is the "Shark" SSBN of the Typhoon system)
  23. Alexander
    Alexander 15 October 2014 16: 38 New
    0
    Author, agree the numbers: 0,03% favorable conditions + 97% unfavorable = 97,03% all weather conditions in the northern seas, although there should be 100%.
    1. Berezin alex
      Berezin alex 16 October 2014 00: 12 New
      +3
      He meant 3% (a probability of three out of a hundred)
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 18 October 2014 01: 26 New
      0
      probability is indicated not in percent, but as in mathematics, unit
  24. 97110
    97110 15 October 2014 17: 37 New
    0
    just remember the battleships of Iowa
    I only remembered one Iowa. How much do you need? If we are talking about sisterships, it is more like “Iowa type.” Or is it professional slang that I don’t know?
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 16 October 2014 11: 45 New
      -6
      This is the stylistic sloppiness of the author. Inadmissible for such a serious site.
  25. Dart2027
    Dart2027 15 October 2014 19: 16 New
    +1
    Submarines became truly quiet when special machines were purchased in Japan (this was a KGB special operation) for the production of "silent propellers".
    I can’t say why I didn’t develop such machines at home - I don’t know.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 19: 33 New
      +4
      Quote: Dart2027
      Submarines became truly quiet when special machines were purchased in Japan (this was a KGB special operation) for the production of "silent propellers".

      The Toshiba-Kikai case. Year 1986.
      Of the 6 machines purchased through a shell company in Switzerland, 3 went to Severodvinsk, the other 3 went to Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
      The point is the surface treatment of the monstrous size of the propeller blades with an accuracy of tenths of a millimeter (complex geometry), which dramatically reduces the value of cavitation turbulence (noise source) during rotation of the screw.
      Quote: Dart2027
      I can’t say why I didn’t develop such machines at home - I don’t know.

      Do you think we can today?
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 15 October 2014 19: 57 New
        +5
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        The point is the surface treatment of the monstrous size of the propeller blades with an accuracy of tenths of a millimeter (complex geometry)

        As far as I know with similar OTs, then up to hundredths of miLLand meter.
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Do you think we can today?

        In the 80s they could do something similar. Then democracy prevailed ...
        request
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 20: 08 New
          +3
          Quote: Cynic
          As far as familiar with similar OTs, then up to hundredths of a millimeter.

          Well ... I saw a trimmed "boat" with a propeller sticking out of the water. And next to it is a boat with reboots from SevMash, grinders processing the surface of the blades ...
          What am I ...
          One "ten" is a good tolerance. fellow
          1. Anton Gavrilov
            Anton Gavrilov 15 October 2014 20: 10 New
            +1
            And what kind of ship was not tell me?
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 20: 18 New
              +3
              Quote: Anton Gavrilov
              And what kind of ship was not tell me?

              They didn’t tell me, but I was not in that "rank", I should be curious ... laughing
              It was in the early 90's ....
              1. jjj
                jjj 15 October 2014 21: 15 New
                +1
                As for the screws, this is "Asterisk". Even on a cruise ship, they used to change the blades under water. And as in Japan, the screws were installed at the shipyard. The Japanese just kept quiet respectfully.
                And so you can remember how the turbines are centered in power plants. There, like a cloth they will rub the bed. Some microns will be removed, put in place to measure. Achieve fantastic accuracy
              2. Dart2027
                Dart2027 15 October 2014 21: 59 New
                0
                Probably "Pike-B".
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 15 October 2014 21: 57 New
        0
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        The point is surface treatment of the monstrous size of the propeller blades

        I am in the know, I just want to say that our boats became really low-noise only after that.
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Do you think we can today?

        I’m not a machine tool builder, so I can’t say anything about today, but at that time they definitely could.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 22: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: Dart2027
          I am in the know, I just want to say that our boats became really low-noise only after that.

          Mover is half the battle.
          There is also a GEM and a host of auxiliary mechanisms that tend to make noise, buzz, whistle, creak, roar, rumble. Only one ballast pump is worth pumping / pumping tens of tons of water in minutes. Even the noise of running water in pipelines is another problem ...
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 15 October 2014 23: 00 New
            0
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Mover is half the battle

            Of course, but if the problems with internal noise were solved on their own, then the screws were dealt with only thanks to the help of the KGB.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 23: 11 New
              +2
              Quote: Dart2027
              managed to solve on their own, the screws managed only with the help of the KGB.

              There is NOT A COUNTRY in the world that would produce EVERYTHING and MYSELF.
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 16 October 2014 19: 16 New
                0
                I agree, but some things need to be had.
  26. viruvalge412ee
    viruvalge412ee 15 October 2014 19: 45 New
    +5
    Wow! The article made a rustle! It's great. Even the tired All was stirred up by EVERYTHING! Critics fought and reconciled.
    It is amazingly cool that we have such underwater hitters, struck by them, hit by warriors: and mattresses and their mongrel. Soon the second phase of 3 MV is, admittedly, very important for everyone. Remained a little bit of time, you need to prepare seriously!
  27. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 15 October 2014 20: 23 New
    +5
    This article is even more convincing that the United States is the most vile country in the world. In its confrontation with Russia, the Yankees do not shun anything and in any way in order to defame our country, to cast it back to the same economic positions that we had in the 90s of the last century. But the Yankees are already late for you, not only because our country has become economically stronger, but also because the world itself has changed a lot, many developing countries have realized that the United States will never be released from poverty if they don’t start cooperating in BRICS and other international structures in which the USA is absent or their influence in them is insignificant.
  28. Fantazer911
    Fantazer911 15 October 2014 21: 39 New
    0
    Russian Bear is cunning and treacherous, be afraid of his America.
  29. Alceers
    Alceers 15 October 2014 21: 54 New
    +2
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    It was in the early 90's ....

    in two thousandths this also happened, and not only with the grinder, but also with the sledgehammer too.


    And the article is one-sided. Behind the trees did not see the forest. In fact, the noise level is comparable both with us and with them. But! Apparently, the mathematics and equipment of the HAC are better, therefore there is an advantage ... That's what is important

    PS. and about 641 (an elastic band and a piece of iron), all this is worth it. Read Mikhailovsky, as a commander of a piece of iron in all exercises, he was found less often than rubber bands ...
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 15 October 2014 22: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Alceers
      PS. and about 641 (an elastic band and a piece of iron), all this is worth it. Read Mikhailovsky, as a commander of a piece of iron in all exercises, he was found less often than rubber bands ...

      I'm not at that age to scratch.
      But the laying factor between the steering wheel and the back of the driver’s seat should not be ruled out.
      And why should I read someone if the physics of the resonance phenomenon of steel and rubber products is completely different.
  30. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 15 October 2014 22: 16 New
    +1
    To maintain their financial Anglo-Saxon pyramid, amers simply need to restrain the development of other countries, otherwise to whom they will dictate their terms, Who will keep their gigantic debt on their humps? Europe caved in and, as a result, also lives in debt, and to repay the debt means you have to tighten the belt tightly, but you still want to live beautifully and satisfyingly! So they are promoting democracy in "backward countries". hi
  31. crambol
    crambol 15 October 2014 22: 52 New
    +3
    - I wanted to give the author a hundred pluses, it did not work out. It's a pity!
  32. Igarr
    Igarr 15 October 2014 23: 38 New
    0
    Quote: badger1974
    in fact, oh ... but if you drown in a ballast, so there is no fear, on the contrary, the guitar plus the team who are not on duty, there are no norms, the only thing on the rafting is good, there are no pumping, and on the surface the Siberians are already slime in the ghall from the beginning

    .

    Well, do not compose too much, huh?
    On the rafting ... as if there were no bumps ...
    Tell me, how are the latrines blown? Shaking, no?
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 16 October 2014 10: 33 New
      -1
      Well, as usual, in fiction workshops such as you send, there’s nowhere to go. system is a system. you can’t do anything
  33. Ishinomaki lie
    Ishinomaki lie 16 October 2014 00: 01 New
    +2
    thanks to this article, which develops a myth, I became proud of our fleet. nice to know that we are cool.
    1. Mih
      Mih 16 October 2014 02: 49 New
      +1
      nice to know that we are cool.

      Yes, it’s nice, but don’t forget that it’s not easy. Submariners - glory !!!!! love
  34. sevtrash
    sevtrash 16 October 2014 00: 23 New
    -5
    If we consider the samples of weapons of various branches of the armed forces, and even in the historical aspect, how many samples of Soviet military equipment were the best compared with the same American? And for today? Where was more money, modern research and production equipment, scientists? Maybe the USSR was the leader in the creation of computers and software? Yes, just consumer goods, maybe someone remembers tape recorders, video, TV, etc.
    Well, and what is the likelihood that in the Soviet Union they created submarines in terms of noise and outperforming the rest of America?
    The author had to compare the number of detections on both sides, and not provide one-way data.
  35. Mih
    Mih 16 October 2014 02: 46 New
    +2
    The thing that inspires me and gives me optimism and faith in our state is that Navy officers are able to assess the degree of threat of the enemy and give a critical analysis of the military confrontation. The composure and endurance of the submarine crews is simply amazing. I'm cracked drinks
  36. Starik72
    Starik72 16 October 2014 02: 50 New
    +1
    I’m not a specialist submariner, but I liked the article. It was written sensibly and intelligibly. And the fact that our technology is known to everyone is known to mean that it would belittle both the Soviet and Russian manufacturers.
  37. Loaddydut
    Loaddydut 16 October 2014 03: 33 New
    0
    Very remarkable topic
    б
  38. qwert
    16 October 2014 07: 27 New
    +5
    Quote: badger1974
    roaring cows are Soviet DEPLs starting with Tango (611 project)

    The name "Roaring Cows" were the first to receive the nuclear submarine of pr.675 for "characteristic and loud noise". Texas associations appear to have played a role. Subsequently, this name was stuck on almost all Soviet boats. They buzz or whistle indiscriminately, just as a characteristic of their high noise.
    Quote: sevtrash
    Maybe the USSR was the leader in the creation of computers and software?

    By the way, this is a topic for a separate article in the "myths of the world" style. In 1954, the most powerful computer in the world was in the USSR. Here, too, everything was not so deplorable and unambiguous.
    Quote: sevtrash
    how many samples of Soviet military equipment were the best compared to the same American? And for today?
    Almost all air defense systems. MiG-15, 17, 19, 21, 25, 29, Su-25, 27, Tu-22М3, 160, IL-76 aircraft. Tanks T-44,54,55,64,80. This is only offhand, that which is undeniable. As well as Kalash, Peony, Hyaciant, Tulpan, all MLRS systems. Well, etc.

    Quote: alexandr
    Author, agree the numbers: 0,03% favorable conditions + 97% unfavorable = 97,03% all weather conditions in the northern seas, although there should be 100%.

    The article says 0,03 (without interest) is a fraction of a unit, that is, 0,03 corresponds to 3%, 0,97 corresponds to 97%, and 1,0 corresponds to 100%. Hence 0,03 + 0,97 = 1,0 or 3% + 97% = 100%. All right
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 16 October 2014 10: 48 New
      -5
      Quote: qwert
      Quote: sevtrash
      how many samples of Soviet military equipment were the best compared to the same American? And for today?
      Almost all air defense systems. MiG-15, 17, 19, 21, 25, 29, Su-25, 27, Tu-22М3, 160, IL-76 aircraft. Tanks T-44,54,55,64,80. This is only offhand, that which is undeniable. As well as Kalash, Peony, Hyaciant, Tulpan, all MLRS systems. Well, etc.


      Which missile is better than the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3, which actually shoots down targets in space back in 2001, and which can change the balance of strategic forces? Which plane can be compared with the F22? And already with F35? What is better AN 64 Apache? Do you think that Abrams is worse than t72, t80, t90? Or is Leopard worse? Or is there something better than the PzH 2000?
      Considering the undoubtedly successful Mig15 and Mig 17 is better than Saber, at least it is debatable, compare the iconic F-4, F-15, F-16, Sr-71, B52, C17, C5 for all aviation in the world. AK legend is based on its prevalence, undeniable reliability, but which was obtained at the expense of accuracy. About the Premier League - can you think Ohio is its missiles worse than Sharks and Dolphins? I’m not talking about Arly Burke, Nimitz, Zumvolt.
      However, the dispute is meaningless - it seems to be clear that the country that leads in high-tech developments will be the leader in the creation of modern weapons. I would like to think differently - yes please, only it will not have anything to do with reality.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 16 October 2014 19: 31 New
        0
        Quote: sevtrash
        I would like to think differently - yes please, only it will not have anything to do with reality.

        Like your purely speculative constructions.
        Your main misunderstanding of the subject lies in incorrectly asked questions. _ You persistently ask what is better or worse.
        The answer not so long ago, by historical standards, the world community received. And then more than once I became convinced that it was impossible to pose questions like that.
        And, purely for educational purposes, find out _ This country, the leader here and there, how many of its citizens, namely those born by US citizens, work in the advanced branches of science.
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 16 October 2014 21: 31 New
          -1
          Quote: Cynic
          Quote: sevtrash
          I would like to think differently - yes please, only it will not have anything to do with reality.

          Like your purely speculative constructions.
          Your main misunderstanding of the subject lies in incorrectly asked questions. _ You persistently ask what is better or worse.



          Yes, elementary, we take MIT, we look for lists, we take Nobel laureates, we will not trifle, right down the list, we find:
          MIT - Nobel Laureates: Peter Arthur Diamond (born April 29, 1940; New York City, US); Howard Robert Horvitz May 8, 1947 (age 67) Chicago; Wolfgang Ketterle October 21, 1957 (age 56) Heidelberg, West Germany; Richard Royce Schrock Richard Royce Schrock January 4, 1945 (age 69) Berne, Indiana, United States; Phillip Allen Sharp June 6, 1944 (age 70) Falmouth, Kentucky; Samuel Chao Chung Ting January 27, 1936 (age 78) Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA; Susumu Tonegawa September 6, 1939 (age 75) Nagoya, Japan; Frank Anthony Wilczek May 15, 1951 (age 63)
          Mineola, New York, US; Robert Cox Merton Robert C. Merton
          July 31, 1944 (age 70) New York City, New York, USA; Dr. Jerome Isaac Friedman, March 28, 1930 (age 84) Chicago, Illinois; Mario José Molina-Pasquel Henríquez March 19, 1943 (age 71) Mexico City, Mexico; Robert Merton Solow August 23, 1924 (age 90) Brooklyn, New York; Henry Way Kendall December 9, 1926
          Boston, Massachusetts; Har Gobind Khorana January 9, 1922 Kabirwala, Punjab, British India (now Punjab, Pakistan); Salvador Edward Luria Salvatore Edoardo Luria August 13, 1912 Turin, Italy;

          It seems like 5 of the first 18 on the list were born in other countries. And you apparently have other information?
          link to the page
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology_facu
          lty

          And back to the same thing - if you want, think differently, only between what you think and reality is a big difference.
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 16 October 2014 23: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: sevtrash
            And back to the same thing - if you want, think differently, only between what you think and reality is a big difference.

            And Edison invented the light bulb.
            1. sevtrash
              sevtrash 17 October 2014 01: 26 New
              0
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              And Edison invented the light bulb.

              Hinting at Lodygin, or what? Why is it that all the scientists listed above received the Nobel Prize instead of the Russians? Or are they really Russian? The depth of your thoughts eludes.
              1. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 17 October 2014 10: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: sevtrash
                Hinting at Lodygin

                Yes, I’m hinting. You know American winners well, but for some reason you completely forgot about yours.
                Laureates - citizens of Russia and the USSR [edit | edit wiki text]
                No. Year Direction Laureate Justification
                1 1904 Physiology and medicine Ivan Petrovich Pavlov "for his work on the physiology of digestion"
                2 1908 Physiology and medicine Ilya Ilyich Mechnikov “for his work on immunity”
                3 1956 Chemistry Nikolai Nikolaevich Semenov "for research in the field of the mechanism of chemical reactions"
                4 1958 Literature Boris Leonidovich Pasternak [2] "for significant achievements in modern lyric poetry, as well as for the continuation of the traditions of the great Russian epic novel"
                5 1958 Physics Pavel Alekseevich Cherenkov
                Igor Evgenievich Tamm

                Ilya Frankovich

                “For the discovery and interpretation of the Cherenkov effect”
                6 1962 Physics Lev Davidovich Landau “for pioneering theories of condensed matter and especially liquid helium”
                7 1964 Physics Nikolai Gennadievich Basov
                Alexander Mikhailovich Prokhorov

                "For fundamental work in the field of quantum electronics, which led to the creation of emitters and amplifiers on the laser-maser principle"
                8 1965 Literature Mikhail Aleksandrovich Sholokhov “for the artistic power and integrity of the epic about the Don Cossacks at a turning point in Russia”
                9 1970 Literature Alexander Isaevich Solzhenitsyn “for the moral strength with which he followed the immutable traditions of Russian literature”
                10 1975 Economics Leonid Vitalievich Kantorovich “for his contribution to the theory of optimal resource allocation”
                11 1975 Peace Prize Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov "for fearless support of the fundamental principles of peace between people and a courageous fight against the abuse of power and any form of suppression of human dignity"
                12 1978 Physics Peter Leonidovich Kapitsa "for his basic research and discoveries in low-temperature physics"
                13 1990 Peace Prize Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev “in recognition of his leading role in the peace process, which today characterizes an important part of the life of the international community”
                14 2000 Physics Zhores Ivanovich Alferov “for his development in semiconductor technology”
                15 2003 Physics Aleksei Alekseevich Abrikosov [3]
                Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg
                “For the creation of the theory of superconductivity of the second kind and the theory of superfluidity of liquid helium-3”
                16 2010 Physics Konstantin Sergeevich Novosyolov [4] “for innovative experiments on the study of two-dimensional graphene material”

                And what's the big difference?
                1. sevtrash
                  sevtrash 17 October 2014 10: 54 New
                  0
                  Quote: saturn.mmm
                  Yes, I’m hinting. You know American winners well, but for some reason you completely forgot about yours.

                  You at least looked at first, because of what and what I brought the list of laureates to.
                  1. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 17 October 2014 21: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: sevtrash
                    You at least looked at first, because of what and what I brought the list of laureates to.

                    Quote: sevtrash
                    However, the dispute is meaningless - it seems to be clear that the country that leads in high-tech developments will be the leader in the creation of modern weapons.
                    1. sevtrash
                      sevtrash 17 October 2014 21: 41 New
                      -2
                      One cynic remarked "... And, purely for educational purposes, find out _ From this country, the leader here and there, how many of its citizens, precisely born US citizens, are working in the advanced branches of science ..."
                      After which I opened the MIT page (why MIT is clear I hope), opened the list of MIT Nobel Prize winners and looked at the first 18 (not all), from which it turned out (oddly enough) that most Americans are at least by birth.
                      And for some reason you decided to bring Nobel laureates from Russia and the USSR.
                      Now is it clear?
                      1. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 18 October 2014 10: 15 New
                        +1
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        After which I opened the MIT page (why I hope MIT is clear), opened the list of laureates of the MIT Nobel Prize and looked at the first 18

                        So there was no talk of US technological superiority?
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        And for some reason you decided to bring Nobel laureates from Russia and the USSR.

                        Yes, indeed, why did I bring them?
          2. Cynic
            Cynic 17 October 2014 11: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: sevtrash
            Yes, elementary, we take MIT, we look for lists, we take Nobel laureates, we will not trifle

            Among the Oscar winners, an even more depressing picture ?!
            Do you understand correctly?
            You don’t understand anything _

            As soon as somewhere instead of the word hello pronounce Heil, in someone’s personal address, you know - they are waiting for us there!
            1. sevtrash
              sevtrash 17 October 2014 13: 44 New
              -1
              Do you remember what it was originally about? Let me remind you - I said that the Americans were leaders and leaders in high-tech areas, thanks to investments in research, technology, people, which determines their military-technical leadership. In response, you began to hint like that the Americans at the institutes are solid foreigners, it is difficult to understand how this negatively correlates with my statements, meaning, on the contrary, positively, confirms. You either forgot the topic or you have nothing to say.
              Well, okay, MIT opened, took the first Nobel laureates on the list - most of them are Americans by birth. Have you ever read? I doubt it very much.
              And now your Oscar has gotten to something.
              Do you even remember anything, are friends with logic? Or is the troll just?
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 17 October 2014 18: 54 New
                0
                Quote: sevtrash
                Do you remember what it was originally about?

                I remember.
                Quote: sevtrash
                I said that Americans were leaders and leaders in high-tech fields, thanks to investments in research, technology, people

                Golden words, only here you are talking about people in vain, that was what I said.
                Quote: sevtrash
                In response, you began to kind of hint that the Americans at the institutes are solid foreigners,

                One feels the rich experience of verbal battles, only, judging by the vocabulary, with opponents who are initially set to honesty in the discussion.
                High school ?
                Quote: sevtrash
                Do you even remember anything, are friends with logic? Or is the troll just?

                Oh well _
                What is allowed to Jupiter is not allowed to the bull.

                So you can use an arbitrary selection as an argument ( wink ), but it means to me about Oscar niz-zya!
                today 40% of all technical specialists - migrants from all over the world are attracted to work in the USA

                Talk about this, and you are about success markers, leave them to Jenny.
                laughing
                1. sevtrash
                  sevtrash 17 October 2014 19: 46 New
                  -2
                  I copied your words, otherwise you don’t want to remember them. Do not you know, honest debater?

                  ... And, purely for educational purposes, find out _ This country, the leader here and there, how many of its citizens, namely born US citizens, work in advanced fields of science ...

                  So, "honest" cynic, don't you remember? what
                  1. Cynic
                    Cynic 17 October 2014 20: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Cynic
                    find out _ This country, the leader here and there, how many of its citizens, namely born US citizens, work in advanced fields of science ...

                    And in the reply post I read
                    Quote: sevtrash
                    Yes, elementary, we take MIT, we look for lists, we take Nobel laureates, we will not trifle, right down the list, we find:
                    MIT - Nobel Laureates: ...

                    Thank you, before that I had only suspicions that the awarding of Nobel Prizes is a branch of science, and here you fully confirmed my suspicions.
                    So this is my problem with logic and memory?
                    Yes, still
                    Quote: sevtrash
                    "honest" cynic

                    According honest answer.
                    1. sevtrash
                      sevtrash 17 October 2014 20: 53 New
                      -1
                      Actually "... branches of science ..." is your saying,
                      and why did they emphasize in italics in their post - "... Thank you, before that I had only suspicions that the awarding of Nobel Prizes is a branch of science, but here you completely confirmed my suspicions ..." that this is, "honest" cynic, you want to ascribe your words to me?
                      But in fact - based on your manner of arguing, sliding to the side of the topic - you are a slippery cynic, with rottenness.
                      Maybe they worked in some political department?
                      1. Cynic
                        Cynic 17 October 2014 21: 29 New
                        0
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        But in fact - based on your manner of arguing, sliding to the side of the topic - you are a slippery cynic, with rottenness.

                        Oh, we’re already getting personal. We proactively accuse the other of our sins.
                        Did you go through political training in the 80s?
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        Maybe they worked in some political department?

                        So who you are determined.

                        Because of people like you _
                        "When I hear the word culture, my hand reaches for the gun."
                      2. sevtrash
                        sevtrash 17 October 2014 21: 59 New
                        -1
                        And in fact, an "honest" cynic, you missed the mark, blurted out without knowing the real state of affairs, and now turn around, how hard it is for you to admit that you are wrong. Why so? Is there a lack of honesty? And in front of whom? It seems to me that it is already clear, while others - this is practically the end of this topic, no one already here and practically does not climb. Self-esteem does not allow? Like I'm so ingenious, infallible, omniscient? Or that in real life you are not appreciated, so here you would like to be a genius? Something like sublimation?
                      3. Cynic
                        Cynic 18 October 2014 12: 54 New
                        0
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        "honest" cynic

                        Still insulting?
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        It seems to me so clear

                        Yes, who would doubt it.
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        in real life you are not appreciated, so would you like to be a genius here? Something like sublimation?

                        Nda-a.
                        Using the term you at least refresh its meaning _
                        Sublimation is a protective mechanism of the psyche, which is the removal of internal tension by redirecting energy to achieve socially acceptable goals, creativity.

                        It seems like a recognition of my efforts, in the debate, on your part is obtained.

                        You continue to remain in an illusory world, which is typical for people who are far from reality.
                      4. sevtrash
                        sevtrash 18 October 2014 13: 47 New
                        0
                        Cynic, huh? Is there anyone at home? About 5-6 posts ago, you made a subtle (very) hint that the Americans have solid native-born foreigners in science. Using the example of MIT, I showed you that this is not so. After that, you talk about anything, but not about that.
                        It turns out that you are either unable to understand the facts, or unable to admit your ignorance. Both are your cognitive or mental problems. Perhaps a painful, impaired pride, lack of realization at some level. The impression is that you need to communicate with a psychiatrist or, at least, a psychoanalyst.
                      5. Cynic
                        Cynic 18 October 2014 14: 31 New
                        0
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        Cynic, huh?

                        Aw.
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        Americans in science work solid foreigners by birth.

                        Do you keep shifting the emphasis?
                        Quote: sevtrash
                        Perhaps a painful, impaired pride, lack of realization at some level. The impression is that you need to communicate with a psychiatrist or, at least, a psychoanalyst.

                        Having sufficient communication experience, I can only say that Peshkov said
                        Whoever has pain hurts

                        largely predicted the essence of the Internet battles.
                        You obviously bathe in the rays of your supposedly wit and wealth of knowledge. And your attempts to somehow hurt me, it’s not even funny, causes even sympathy.
                        The most bitter thing in all of this, well, let Ukraine be the homeland of elephants, but you are trying to convince everyone that, figuratively speaking, the SGA is the homeland of elephants!
                        Do you think Ukraine and the SGA is a force?
                        Not reminiscent of _
  • Cynic
    Cynic 16 October 2014 20: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: sevtrash
    I would like to think differently - yes please, only it will not have anything to do with reality.

    This is not We to ourselves _




    This is about us, exaggerated or not, another conversation. and you only have to fumble about others.
    Having abandoned the past, you have become nobody and now there is no way to call you.
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 16 October 2014 21: 39 New
      -2
      Quote: Cynic
      This is about us, exaggerated or not, another conversation. and you only have to fumble about others.
      Having abandoned the past, you have become nobody and now there is no way to call you.


      This is my country and my history, I want to know and remember how it was and is in fables not in fables, closer to reality, but read fairy tales to someone else, who is interested and who did not grow out of pants.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 17 October 2014 11: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: sevtrash
        This is my country and my history, I want to know and remember how it was and is in fables not in fables, closer to reality,

        And how was it?
        About what we will not eat.
        But what was ...
        It is very interesting to compare what you say and what I remember myself.
        And about fables the same in more detail, myths are an interesting thing.
        hi
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 17 October 2014 13: 52 New
          -1
          Talking should be interesting if you lose or ignore the logic of the dispute, are inconsistent, and even rude - what's the point of talking to you?
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 17 October 2014 19: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: sevtrash
            if you lose or ignore the logic of the dispute, are inconsistent, ... - what's the point of talking to you?

            So say that there is nothing to say.
            Quote: sevtrash
            Yes, and rude

            So, in my opinion, overly polite.
            And if you are about _
            Quote: Cynic
            you have become nothing and now you can’t call you anything.

            So this is just a statement of fact _ You refused the past, there is nothing of your own, but the future, hmm,
            "A people who have forgotten their past has no future"
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 16 October 2014 23: 50 New
    +1
    Quote: sevtrash
    C17, C5

    S-17 after the third modernization they have is not bad, but the S-5 is essentially a failed project.
    At one time there was an An-22.
    The Americans are far from the An-124, but I generally keep quiet about the Mriya.
    Quote: sevtrash
    About the nuclear submarines - maybe you think Ohio is worse than Sharks

    Dolphins and Sharks are very different, so compare with either Dolphins or Sharks.
    Ohio is probably worse than Sharks.
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 17 October 2014 01: 19 New
      0
      Quote: saturn.mmm
      S-17 after the third modernization they have is not bad, but the S-5 is essentially a failed project.

      And what a failure? Avionics in comparison with An124 and Il76? Maybe the cost of the service? The cost of the flight he seems to be 2 times less than An124. Well, s130? Do you think they are not able to do more than An124 or Mriya? Rather, they do not need it. Akhilles' heel probably all Soviet military equipment for export - after-sales service.

      Quote: saturn.mmm
      Dolphins and Sharks are very different, so compare with either Dolphins or Sharks.
      Ohio is probably worse than Sharks.


      The three of them are peers. Have you heard the phrase "victory of technology over common sense"? Cost - efficiency as applied to the Ohio Shark?
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 17 October 2014 11: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: sevtrash
        And what a failure?

        Read: creation, testing, operation.
        Quote: sevtrash
        Avionics

        What do they have that we don’t have?
        Quote: sevtrash
        Do you think they are not able to do more than An124 or Mriya?

        We tried, it didn’t work.
        Quote: sevtrash
        Well, s130?

        Wonderful plane, there is nothing to argue with.
        Quote: sevtrash
        Peers are three of them.

        Dolphin is 667A, 667B, 667BD, 667BDR, 667BDRM and some argue that according to the combined characteristics, Dolphin turned out worse than Azuhi, I can’t say anything, not a professional, Shark is a new type of boat, transitional between the third and fourth generation.
        Quote: sevtrash
        Have you heard the phrase "victory of technology over common sense"?

        This was invented by those who cut Sharks for scrap, greed must somehow be justified.
        Quote: sevtrash
        Cost - efficiency as applied to Shark Ohio?

        You will take an interest in how they launched missiles from Ohio and how from Sharks. This is judging by the American military budget in terms of efficiency; they don’t spare money for armaments, it’s cost.
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 17 October 2014 13: 30 New
          -1
          c5 flies successfully, recently modified and modified, primarily in avionics. What's new - read it yourself, it’s easy and simple to do.
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Dolphin is 667A, 667B, 667BD, 667BDR, 667BDRM

          There really is nothing to say, aplomb ahead of knowledge.
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Quote: sevtrash
          Have you heard the phrase "victory of technology over common sense"?

          This was invented by those who cut Sharks for scrap, greed must somehow be justified.

          Though they looked by searching, who threw such a phrase?
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          You will take an interest in how they launched missiles from Ohio and how from Sharks. This is judging by the American military budget in terms of efficiency; they don’t spare money for armaments, it’s cost.

          Relate the mass and number of missiles, the mass of nuclear submarines, the characteristics of missiles - the main weapons. Elementary can do before you say something?
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 18 October 2014 00: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: sevtrash
            There really is nothing to say, aplomb ahead of knowledge.

            Does the case have anything to say?
            Quote: sevtrash
            Though they looked by searching, who threw such a phrase?

            Why, it does not matter what, idle talk.
            Quote: sevtrash
            Relate the mass and number of missiles, the mass of nuclear submarines, the characteristics of missiles - the main weapons. Elementary can do before you say something?

            I repeat.
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            You take an interest in how rockets were launched from Ohio and how from Shark
  • amoeba_cat
    amoeba_cat 16 October 2014 07: 29 New
    +3
    I get the impression that there is an incorrectly understood jargon of sonar workers.
    I think the "roaring cow" does not matter the volume, but the characteristics of the sound, such as "whistle", "hiss of the snake", etc.
    At one time I was doing a practice in ornithology, and there was a need to memorize the voices and singing of different birds. And here, too, there were all sorts of "rattle buzzing", "gurgling", "psychedelic laughter".
    The work of the sonar is the same - the selection of a specific sound from the general noise - the distant surf, the singing of whales, etc. Despite the fact that the same whales can wail very loudly and easily interrupt the sound of the sub's propellers. So I have 90% confidence that the "roaring cows" characterize not the intensity of the sound, but describe its sound.
  • Lyton
    Lyton 16 October 2014 08: 53 New
    0
    I’m not a submariner, but I liked the article, very informative, I don’t see the point in clinging to grammatical errors, the content was more interested.
  • Wolka
    Wolka 16 October 2014 09: 26 New
    0
    indeed, we have something to brag about, but it was the heyday of the USSR, today the resources are not the same and the appetites are more pragmatic, but still it’s nice for the Power and the Fatherland ...
  • taseka
    taseka 16 October 2014 10: 20 New
    +2
    They will not get away from "Shkval" in any case!
    1. engineer31
      engineer31 17 October 2014 23: 08 New
      0
      This flurry was sold in 94 to the Chinese. So not only do we have these weapons ... Also in 2005 or 2006, Germany announced the creation of a torpedo close in speed characteristics.
      Think for yourself ...
  • Silhouette
    Silhouette 16 October 2014 11: 05 New
    -2
    Quote: olegglin
    And the fact that true professionals are not always "friendly" with punctuation and their style is peculiar, I think it can be forgiven them.


    The fact of the matter is that I see not a true professional, but a young "victim of the Unified State Exam".
  • qwert
    16 October 2014 11: 09 New
    +6
    Quote: sevtrash
    an air defense missile better than the RIM-161 Standard Missile 3, which really shoots down targets in space back in 2001, and which can change the balance of strategic forces? Which plane can be compared with the F22? And already with F35?

    The question was posed in such a way that there was nothing better than the American one in the USSR. I answered this clearly. I did not write TU-95 and M-4, since B-52 is at least no worse. I did not write the MiG-23, although both F-16 and F-15 were shot down on it. I see no point in comparing land-based air defense systems with a naval missile defense system. I prefer to compare my classmates S-125 and S-300 (which I served on) and the Advanced Hot and Petriot, etc. With what can be compared Tunguska, Buk and TOP, I do not see at all. The fact that the MiG-17 is definitely better than the Saber, and the MiG-19 "Super Saber", I also boldly assert. M-16 is better than Kalash only in accuracy. But according to the totality of characteristics, Kalash rules.
    But, American aircraft carriers are unrivaled, F-4, A-5, FB-111 aircraft are excellent ahead of their Soviet counterparts clearly. I am not saying that in the USA they only get along like Chapparell, but the USSR was ahead of the Americans by no less than a few times.
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 16 October 2014 11: 30 New
      -1
      Quote: qwert
      but the USSR was ahead of Americans by no less than a few times.

      Miracles, of course, occur, but the development of high-tech products is based on a scientific base, means, equipment. If the Americans have more of this, then the result as a whole will be better. Separate weapons, with sufficient MTB, can turn out to be quite good in other countries. For example, the same Leopard, Harrier, small arms. Of course, some Soviet models of technology at a good school, scientists, more or less sufficient investments.
      The rule is universal - invested more (in science, in scientists, personnel, equipment) - received more. The Americans have more investments and the corresponding result.
  • qwert
    16 October 2014 11: 23 New
    +6
    Quote: amoeba_cat
    I get the impression that there is an incorrectly understood jargon of sonar workers.
    So I have 90% confidence that “roaring cows” do not characterize sound intensity, but describe its sound.

    Probably originally it was. But journalists of all strange countries use this term precisely at the beginning of a loud roar. They love sensations, and do not rummage in the work of sonarschikov)))
    Quote: Silhouette
    just remember the battleships of Iowa.


    Apparently we are talking about battleships of the "Iowa" type. There were no battleships "Iowa-1", "Iowa-2", etc.

    Even such a well-known author and expert as Melnikov says in the book: “Sevastopoli had one major drawback ...” But the battleship Sevastopol was alone. And remember "Noviks", everywhere they write "Noviks possessed ...", "Fate prepared for Noviks ....", etc. But, after all, Novik was alone ...
    So, the author's style is quite adequate. Often a series of ships is named after the head, more often with the prefix "type" and in the singular, less often, but not infrequently, and simply in the plural. There are other options, so the Pallas-class cruisers were called goddesses, the battlecruisers Lyon and Tiger cats. But, no one accused the authors of style and stupidity. Perhaps you just read a little books on naval topics.
  • qwert
    16 October 2014 11: 30 New
    +5
    Quote: Silhouette


    The fact of the matter is that I see not a true professional, but a young "victim of the Unified State Exam".

    And I see a philologist who accidentally found himself on a non-core site and decided to shine with the knowledge that he has. I advise you to watch the play "A Cup of Tea".
    Enough to cling to the style and some typos and troll. Not in the lesson. We don’t understand how a student wrote a dictation. Here the main information. And how interesting and valuable it is, the assessments under the article say.
    1. Silhouette
      Silhouette 16 October 2014 12: 11 New
      -4
      Here the main information

      The point is that the information is secondary, taken from previously published articles. At the same time, the analyst is weak, superficial, written carelessly. Not the "IN" level.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 16 October 2014 19: 16 New
        0
        what you especially wrote is a masterpiece that is so selfish
      2. Alexstalker
        Alexstalker 17 October 2014 01: 36 New
        0
        you're so stupid! sorry it is not treated
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. mine
      mine 18 October 2014 16: 13 New
      +1
      estimates under the article only talk about the number of hamsters running

      article - sucks and garbage
  • Romass
    Romass 16 October 2014 18: 12 New
    -2
    Do not stand up to criticism, the idle talk of liquid umnyaks. These cattle should take care of everything, embellish it, slander it. Mongo cheap ass of glitzy chatter, luscious gadgets and eat all the hell out of heroes.
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 16 October 2014 18: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: Starover_Z
    It was nice to read and feel pride in Soviet submarines, the actions of which did not let the hair on the heads of the Americans calm down!
  • Ogans
    Ogans 16 October 2014 19: 26 New
    +1
    However, in the vicinity of the English base of the Navy, Holi Loch ...
    the name of the base is simply sparkling ...
  • Alceers
    Alceers 16 October 2014 21: 40 New
    -2
    Quote: stalkerwalker
    I'm not at that age to scratch.
    And why should I read someone if the physics of the resonance phenomenon of steel and rubber products is completely different.


    1. Well, I'm not a kid either ...
    2. Then, of course, you are aware that already at 100 m "Fin" in its qualities is very close to steel?
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 16 October 2014 21: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Alceers
      . Well, I'm not a kid either ...

      Then watch out for the bazaar ...