Why MIC stands for a ban on the procurement of foreign military equipment

The Association of Russian Trade Unions of the Defense Industry Sector (ARPOOP), together with the Federation of Independent Trade Unions of the Russian Federation (FNPRF), addressed President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin with a request to ban the purchase of military equipment abroad. In their letter, the trade unions expressed disagreement with the statement made by the Minister of Defense A. Serdyukov that the ministry was not going to purchase Russian equipment at elevated prices.

In particular, on this issue, Andrei Chekmenev, chairman of the All-Russian Trade Union of Defense Industry Workers, said: “Prices have been formed for a very long time. Moreover, it is disproportionately low directly for industry. The defense ministry says it is laying 20% profitability into the cost of military production. But who determines the cost price? Specialists from the ministry consider the cost of production and ask why the metal is bought at such a price, and not at a different, lower price. In response, manufacturers begin to explain that, of course, you can buy cheaper, but for this you need to buy not one, but several tons of metal, and they literally need a 10 kilogram of liquid metal for a specific production. The Ministry of Defense also establishes a completely improperly low wage at defense factories. At best, the average salary that was registered last year is multiplied by the so-called. deflator. This is an incomprehensible figure, born in the depths of the Ministry of Economy. On 2010, for example, the approved deflator is 1,034. This figure has nothing to do with real inflation. That is, the salary in 16 thousand rubles, taking into account the deflator, will increase only to 16,5 thousand rubles, while at the enterprise it is at the level of 25 thousand rubles. As a result, the manufacturer of defense products will pay a salary higher than the Ministry of Defense provides. At the same time, the official representatives of the Ministry of Defense make this look as if they are unfamiliar with such generally accepted concepts as a tariff agreement, a collective agreement, in which the wage levels of staff members of enterprises are clearly described. So there are disputes at the plant and the Ministry of Defense. Officials from the ministry do not recognize the cost that the enterprise expects, and sets its own condition - either we buy at such a low price, or we don’t buy at all. The plant is forced to agree, despite the fact that for him it will not be 20% of profitability pledged, but just 5%, since it lays the cost of production somewhat higher than the ministry. As a result, a powerful enterprise works only at a loss. And here comes into force a law that prohibits the export of certain types of products, and enterprises have no other choice but to agree to the conditions set, since they cannot sell their products to the Ministry of Defense. The defense industry enterprises with the Ministry of Defense do not have market relations, but, one can say, dictatorial relations. Another problem is the delay in the distribution of state orders. The state order for 2011 has not been distributed until this time, and the seventh month is already underway. As a result, the enterprises practically did not work in the first half of the year. How to deal with the workers? Do they have to get paid for these six months? At the same time, the production of military products is worth it, only something else is being assembled. But there are a large number of enterprises that are aimed only at the defense industry. They have no production, no citizen or consumer goods. And in this situation, the plant is forced to go into debt in order to pay people wages, which in the second half of this year will have to produce military products. And the Ministry of Defense claims that this does not concern us at all, let them get paid only for these five months, which actually worked, and that salary that we put into the cost price. The defense ministry actually separated itself from industry. Earlier in the Soviet, as well as in the first post-Soviet years, the defense complex was always in the first place. The state has an army, and there is an industry that prepares weapons. Now the Ministry of Defense indicates that the army is us, and the military industry does not concern us, let the Ministry of Industry and Trade deal with it. If the domestic plant exhibits its production at a high price, we will not buy it, we will acquire it elsewhere, the Defense Ministry said. Moreover, the head of state also said, buy where you want. If this is another “pugalka” such, like, look, directors, you can play out, this is one thing. But if this subsequently becomes a reality, then the existing concept of national security will be in danger of total collapse. The Ministry of Defense adheres to the chosen position that they are ready to acquire only the best at the lowest price regardless of who will produce these products. In modern market conditions, this works quite normally. But in the defense industry of our state there are no familiar market relations. The Ministry of Defense is a monopoly buyer, there is no access to the international market, and enterprises today are in a very difficult financial situation after 15 years of non-work. Enterprises are independently afraid to raise the issue, because they are afraid of losing government orders.

The Russian defense industry works today in the system of military missions, at each enterprise there is a group of representatives of the Ministry of Defense. Careful military acceptance is a special institution, the whole process of manufacturing military products takes place under the direct control of the Ministry of Defense. And it is precisely the Russian weapons that have always been famous. They control all incoming metal, component parts, and thanks to this, the output is the usable products for 100%. For example, the price of Izhevsk factory automatons is much higher than those produced in other places, but at the same time they are still bought, and the reason is high quality.

Today, there is a difference between the selling price and the cost of factories for specific types of weapons. So, it is known that the cost of the Mi-17 helicopter is $ 4 million; it is sold for export for $ 16 million. At tank T-90 prime cost of approximately $ 2,3 million, and sold for export for $ 6-7 million. Of course, the state is simply obliged to sell for export at a higher price, this is a kind of support for the domestic producer. At the same time, high prices do not scare off foreign buyers, since the quality of Russian military equipment is verified by many years of experience in real-world applications. For example, Indians who are well versed in military equipment prefer to buy expensive Russian T-90s, because they know that this tank will last for many years and moreover without fail.

True, today the institute of quality is being reorganized, the acceptance is simplified, the number of people is reduced. The entire defense industry is also decreasing, where 15 thousands of people previously worked, now 2 thousands. In some enterprises, their acceptance will not be at all; it will be distributed to the 2-3 plant. This is less convenient and, as a result, the quality may suffer.

On the other hand, marriage is quite possible today. First, if for a long time they did not produce any complex products, then it is quite difficult to reproduce it again. Then the factory workers sometimes resort to tricks, which, as a rule, ultimately results in marriage. The second reason is extremely low wages and, most importantly, unskilled workers. If today the salary at a defense enterprise amounts to 8 thousand rubles, then what quality can be demanded from a person who worked on the land yesterday, was an ordinary peasant, and when it suddenly needed to increase the current production, the plant has to collect people from the surrounding villages.

Today, the Ministry of Defense is gradually moving away from the financing of research and development and research and development. The ministry today is seriously reorganizing with one goal - austerity. But when the economy turns into an end in itself, you can put any enterprise in such realistic conditions that it has only two options left - either to produce a marriage, or completely cease to exist.

Especially in the harsh conditions of economy put scientific institutions. In 2009, the Ministry of Defense announced that enterprises must first develop something useful, produce a prototype, test it and show it, and then the ministry will look at the results and maybe do a favor and order a new product. But where do plants get money for such overtures? Today it is difficult to imagine that defense enterprises with their current financial condition will be able to afford to invent something. As a result, the defense industry of Russia is at the bottom of the trough, when they cannot sell their products directly, and their own military department does not need it. What it can lead to in the end, obviously, and not experienced in financial and other matters, is the collapse of the independence of the national defense of the state.

Comments

[Professor]

Well done Serdyukov. He made the military-industrial complex stir, they started talking about prices and quality. So you look at lower prices, and the quality will increase. Competition however.
And as a result, the army will receive more weapons and better quality.

[Joker]

Chickens in the fall count.

While positive progress is not felt, everything is as usual prototypes and beautiful tales of Shikhirizada about how everything will be fine in a long time.

[voin-xnumx]

I agree with the Joker, but what has changed? who else serves, what units of equipment have appeared? Well, it’s possible in a different way, let the guys write off where and when new models of equipment appeared. (If not sent by the Cossacks then ......... never).

[Rustam]

Why does the defense industry advocate a ban on the purchase of foreign military equipment ????
___________
Yes, because they are afraid of the fire of competition, and cash flows go from the hands of comrades from the military-industrial complex !!!! They wanted to spit on ordinary workers (engineers, welder turners, etc.)
they themselves buy Mercedes, and they scream for the whole country for the support of a domestic manufacturer

mine of defense conducts the right policy do no worse than in the west and your products will be bought

____
quote from an article It is well known that the cost of a Mi-17 helicopter is $ 4 million; it is sold for export for $ 16 million. The T-90 tank has a cost of approximately $ 2,3 million, and is sold for export for $ 6–7 million.
_______
I wonder where does the difference go ???? on the modernization of production ?? no, she goes into the pocket of senior officials from the military-industrial complex (but they beat themselves in the chest as they care for the working class) Yes, they spat on the workers from the big bell tower, but they got a penny (by the standards of the military-industrial complex of normal countries)

It’s hard to break the back of a system that for years has become accustomed to doing whatever it wants and what it wants !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[makrus]

"If today the salary at a defense enterprise is 8 thousand rubles, then what quality can be required from a person who still Yesterday he worked on the land, was an ordinary peasant, and when suddenly it was necessary to increase the volume of current production, the plant was forced to collect people from surrounding villages. "Smiled, primitive and understandable

Quote: Rustam

It’s hard to break the back of a system that for years has become accustomed to doing whatever it wants and what it wants !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy, you have to be more kind to the people who ensure your safety. The chief designer of KB UVZ, Vladimir Potkin, was a patriot of what else to look for. At one time, the Indian order for the t-90 saved the city of Nizhny Tagil. The same can be said about the creator of the BMP and about many others.
QUESTION IN THE HALL, MUCH DO YOU KNOW THE OLIGARCHS RISING ON THE DEFENSE?
And the MIC is not afraid of competition because he has been living in it since the beginning of the 90s. AND SUCCESSFULLY COMPETES NOT ONLY WITH WESTERN COMPANIES, BUT AND WITH OWN PIRATE PRODUCTS. Another question is that in the field of high technology we are not ahead of the rest, but this is a problem of the state and its priorities. In a country where science is in decline, there can be no advanced defense industry.
If you want to discuss high salaries, pay attention to Rusnano.

[Rustam]

If today the salary at a defense enterprise is 8 thousand rubles, then what quality can be claimed per person
_______
And I’m talking about something my friend !!!!! and they don’t need to write here constructors — THEY ARE MAJORLY DISAPPEARED FROM MANAGING THE ENTERPRISES, AND MANAGING FINANCIAL FLOWS SPECIALLY PLANTED PEOPLE whose purpose is to grab more and stale outdated products for big money (into the development of enterprises their plans are not included)
Tell me, please, give an example ??? )
and all financial flows began to receive certain people !!!!!! And only in 2009 when the situation became critical (disruption of the contract with the UAE, ALGERIA, SYRIA), this comrade was removed but put in the place of the director of basalt (which also flourished before him) and right now he is bending and filling up the state order !!!!!!!!!! !!

Now you understand the cutest soul man !!!! HERE is not against the military-industrial complex, here it is for improving the quality and bringing it up to world standards and cleaning random people in the military-industrial complex
___________________________
It’s hard to break the back of a system that for years has become accustomed to doing whatever it wants and what it wants !!!!!!!!!!!!!
-this phrase refers to the same top managers who have come to the military industry over the past 16 years - THEY DO NOT NEED WORK FOR THE PERSPECTIVE. will be remembered for a lifetime !!!!!!!!
and me, as a taxpayer, is so upset that for our money someone will be enriched in our army, PUSHING IT'S MORAL-DEPRECATED EQUIPMENT !!!!!!!!!!!

[Joker]

You probably argue the crocodile is rather long, or the crocodile is more likely green.

Both are right.

[MichaelVl]

That's right, Joker, they are both right.

[Eric]

I will support comrade! I completely agree!

In general, the guys judge for yourself! Isn't this the collapse of the finished doperespil the military-industrial complex of the USSR? When is this situation with the downtime of enterprises for 7 months? And the blocked channels add. earnings! Here's how to destroy the military-industrial complex!

[916-th]

To the professor:

Serdyukov not well done by definition. And the definition for him is as follows - "A functionary who uses his official position for personal gain." It was his lead motive activities in the "stool" past (the Internet is full of facts and evidence), and so it remained in the MO. I have never come across the phenomenon of an abrupt, overnight, re-education of a corrupt official. Share examples if you know. Who was so dark and slippery with us, and then he saw the light and became white and fluffy? It is only in Vysotsky that the drunks experience excitement, awareness, so to speak, and enlightenment. This is not the case here.

Here the question is different - who is he? puppeteerwho, knowing Serdyukov’s past, put him on the top of the defense pyramid? This is the height of cynicism.

But he is not alone there, there are many such "inmates" there at the top of the military power (Arbat military district). And next to it there is another pyramid - the pyramid of the military-industrial complex, and at its top there are also enough "inmates" who are not averse to snatching a fatter piece for their beloved.

So, when the top of the Defense Ministry threatens the neighboring top of the military-industrial complex, and the "super-top" of the entire country supports it, then there is no question of caring about the Army and the Navy or the quality of weapons. The subtext is this: the top of the MO says - lower prices, then we will get more in the form of "kickbacks" and "cuts". And the top of the military-industrial complex responds - we will not reduce, then more will remain at our disposal.

In general, in this whole performance, the cart is placed in front of the horse. According to the mind, first it was necessary to invest in the military-industrial complex in order to revive and modernize the production of its own military equipment, and only then allocate money for the purchase of high-quality and modern weapons. But this is on the mind, we are watching a play called "Field of miracles in the land of fools".

[makrus]

Quote: Rustam

HERE is not against the military-industrial complex, here it is for improving the quality and bringing it up to world standards and cleaning random people in the military-industrial complex

The methods for this need to be different.

Quote: Rustam

THEY DO NOT NEED WORK FOR THE PERSPECTIVE; THEY NEED TO EARN THE MAXIMUM NOW

The prospect should not be dealt with by top managers, but by the Moscow Region.

[Rustam]

The prospect should not be dealt with by top managers, but by the Moscow Region.
______________________

in 2008-10, 5 billion rubles were allocated to create bla !!!!!!!! where is the result ???? where is it, where is the competitive product ????? DISAPPOINTED TIPCHAK !!!! here the money has nicely dispersed into the pockets of top managers of the VEGA concern and those interested in it - CORRECTLY MONEY IS NOT OUR STATE

And now an example of the development of UAVs for their own blood-output, the only competitive product of the ENIKS company is the Aileron series UAV and ZALA, then you will spend yours wisely

the second example (how they create it on their own) - in 1996 Rostov ROSVERTOL invested all his money and developed the mi-28n and created a decent device (they didn’t shove it in their pockets but invested in the future) REMEMBER in the 90s ROSVERTOL WAS ABOUT BANKRUPTCY.
AND WHAT NOW ??? ROSVERTOL IS ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED ENTERPRISES FOR PRODUCING HELICOPTERS — orders currently up to 2017

[makrus]

Quote: Rustam

SORROWED TIPCHAK SHOWN

subjectively.

Quote: Rustam

created a decent machine (they didn’t shove it in their pockets but invested in the future) I REMEMBER in the 90s ROSVERTOL WAS ON THE verge of bankruptcy

lobbying project. Rather, evidence of uncleanliness M.V. Weinberg

[Max79]

I strongly doubt that the quality will rise to the level. I will explain why. Firstly, there is no track equipment (machine tools manufactured in the years 40-60). But quality is required at the European level !!! Secondly, there are no specialists! (Some people find it easier to trade than the factory jo ... I’ve got my own 1,5 shifts for a penny. They don’t pay on time. I know that I’ve worked for 5 years on CNC, it’s not prestigious!). Thirdly, there are no prospects. (Even who comes to the plants with villages, towns, cannot thoroughly linger. Working conditions are bad, with dorms - a problem. what? At the top of the comment I already wrote). Basically now people are working on retirement and pre-retirement age, who left their lives at the factory, and young .... by x ...

[PSih2097]

Well, here you are wrong, ours and on the knee cap, with such a number of state. procurement will cope ...

[APASUS]

You ask such questions ???
This system has been formed for decades and, due to its closeness, has a very small circle of insiders. I think there are a lot of problems, ranging from banal theft to simply lobbying for a kickback! No one has serious information on this subject. They are pickled in their own juice and hardly anyone will be let in from the side. But about a salary of 25 thousand, the author made a little mistake.

[916-th]

Without asking a question, you will not get an answer. And they must answer.

[ZEBRASH]

Quote: professor

Well done Serdyukov. He made the military-industrial complex stir, they started talking about prices and quality. So you look at lower prices, and the quality will increase. Competition however. And as a result, the army will receive more weapons and better quality.

I think that this will be the last "stir" of some enterprises - first you need to give money, and then demand results. How will enterprises live?

[ZEBRASH]

Quote: Rustam

in 2008-10, 5 billion rubles were allocated for the creation of a UAV !!!!!!!! where is the result ???? where is he, where are the competitive products ????? SHOWED OBOGIY TIPCHAK !!!! here the money went beautifully into the pockets of the top managers of the VEGA concern and those interested in this - CORRECTLY THE MONEY THAT IS NOT YOURS IS STATE And now an example of the development of a UAV for their hard-earned output is the only competitive product of the company 'ENIX is a UAV series Eleron and ZALA - then you will spend yours wisely

There is also "Izhmash Unmanned Systems". Recently it was shown on local news that there are good developments, there are also trial orders of the Ministry of Defense