Mistral DVKD transfer: France continues to drag out time

101
Last Wednesday received a further sequel. story with the transfer of amphibious helicopter-carrying docking ships (MFDD) of the Mistral type, being built in France by order of the Russian military. With a difference of several hours from Paris came two newswhich once again showed the specifics of the situation around the ships, and also stressed its complexity for the French leadership.



September 3 French Presidential Administration has published information from the Security Council meeting held that day. During the event, President Francois Hollande made an important statement regarding the current contract with Russia for the supply of two amphibious ships. The head of state noted that at present there are no necessary conditions for the transfer of the first of the ordered ships. In this regard, the French leadership does not consider it possible to transfer the first "Mistral" to the customer. The reason for such a decision was called the Ukrainian events and the position of Russia.

On the evening of the same day, RIA Novosti news agency reported that its employees were able to contact DCNS, which is building the ordered ships. Representatives of the shipbuilder did not comment on the statements of the French president. The official comment of the company was not yet ready and was not announced.

A few hours after the publication of the information announced at the Security Council meeting, the press service of the Elysee Palace was forced to give an additional comment. First of all, the press service noted that while there is no question of breaking the contract with Russia. It was alleged that F. Hollande stated the complexity of the situation in Ukraine and in connection with it made a statement about the ships for Russia. However, the words of the president were political in nature and had no political consequences.

At the same time, the press service noted that the transfer of the first of the "Mistral" is scheduled for November 1. If in the remaining two months the situation in Ukraine does not change, France will not be able to transfer. At the same time, France does not intend to unilaterally terminate the contract.

Thus, by Wednesday evening, the situation with the official position of Paris on the issue of the delivery of two ships cleared up. However, serious questions remained. First of all, the approach to the business of the President of France and his administration caused surprise. First, statements were published that could be interpreted, inter alia, in favor of refusal to transfer ships, and then explanations appeared, to some extent refuting this version. Why the administration and the press service of the French president made such a blunder is unknown.

At the moment, after all the statements and explanations, the position of the official Paris on the transfer of two Mistral DVKD is as follows. The French leadership does not object to the continuation of the contract. Nevertheless, it believes that Russia's position on the Ukrainian crisis should have certain consequences. Therefore, the leaders of France believe that at present the ships cannot be transferred to the customer: “there are no necessary conditions” for this. The final decision will be made later, in early November, when it was planned to transfer the first ship “Vladivostok” to the naval the fleet Of Russia. When making the decision, the events of the next two months, September and October, as well as the further development of events in Ukraine will be taken into account.

It should be recalled that on Wednesday the President of France had not, for the first time, raised the topic of transferring amphibious ships being built for Russia. Shortly after the start of the well-known Ukrainian events and the confrontation connected with them in the international arena, the United States demanded that France join in the sanctions against Russia, including the termination of the contract for the construction of ships. Since then, for several months, official Paris has been forced to find a way out that will preserve good relations not only with Washington, demanding not to give the ships, but also with Moscow, reminiscent of contractual obligations.

Since the beginning of this “epic”, for several months now, experts have repeatedly reminded of the risks for France associated with the refusal of the transfer of ships. The fact is that in the event of a breach of contract, both France and Russia will face certain problems of a different nature. For example, for France, the refusal may result in the need to pay a large penalty. Such financial implications must be taken into account when making the final decision.

About two months are left before the said decision timeline. During this time, it is likely that new statements will be made regarding bilateral relations, the existing contract and the situation in Ukraine. Nevertheless, we can already say what consequences this or that decision of official Paris will have.

If the leadership of France decides to continue the implementation of the contract, then both parties will be satisfied. Russia will receive two amphibious ships of a new class for themselves, and French shipbuilders will earn about 1,2 billion euros. Before the deterioration of the international situation, such a scenario was not in any doubt, and also looked right and beneficial for both countries. Currently, the implementation of the contract will cause a negative reaction from the United States. France seeks to maintain good relations with its overseas partner, because of which the fulfillment of the contract no longer looks like the only right decision.

The United States is putting pressure on France and demanding to break the contract, citing the need to punish Russia. Nevertheless, the effect of such a decision, however strange it may seem, will hit Russia least of all. Due to the refusal of France, our country will not receive two landing craft, and besides, it will have to demand from the former partners in the contract to return the money paid. In the light of the well-known theses, according to which the MKDD DVKD are not needed by the Russian Navy, such a “punishment” for a position on the Ukrainian crisis looks extremely strange, if not comical.

France, in turn, will receive several problems of a different nature. First of all, the refusal to fulfill the order is unprofitable for economic reasons. Refusing to transfer ships of Russia, France will have to return the money already paid to it, as well as pay a substantial fine. According to various sources, the size of the latter can range from 3 to 10 billion euros. In this case, such a financial burden will fall on the company-contractor, namely DCNS. It is unlikely that French shipbuilders will be delighted with this “gift” from the country's leadership. Russia, in turn, will be glad not only to return what was spent, but also to receive solid compensation. This money can go, for example, to the development of domestic shipbuilding.

The second problem related to the breach of contract is the loss of reputation of a reliable supplier. According to the Stockholm World Research Institute (SIPRI), in recent years, France has consistently been in the top ten of the world's largest suppliers of weapons and military equipment. French companies sell a wide range of equipment, from armored cars to ships. Failure to supply "Mistral" under pressure from the United States could hit the reputation of France as a reliable partner. Some countries wishing to purchase French weapon or the technician may think about the expediency of concluding contracts with representatives of the state, which is able at any time to refuse to fulfill the order.

It should be noted that the deterioration of the reputation of France can be useful for Russia. Some customers of weapons and equipment who are disillusioned with French politics may show interest in Russian products and acquire them. In addition, the breach of contract will surely please other countries that are actively selling weapons: the United States, Germany, China, etc.

Finally, the latest problem for France is the further fate of one built and one ship under construction. The best way out would be to sell them to a third country, but the European states and the United States have not yet expressed a desire to buy back the disputed MKDDF for their fleets. The situation with the built ships can worsen an interesting feature of their construction. The fact is that the feed sections of the hulls were built in Russia, after which they were sent to France. The Russian side may well make claims regarding these nodes, which will complicate the already difficult situation of the French partners.

It should be recognized that in France, all the risks associated with the refusal to transfer ships are well understood. Earlier, some French politicians and experts warned the president and reminded about possible consequences. This time, too, was not without deprecatory comments. Thus, the leader of the "National Front" Marine Le Pen criticized the words of F. Hollande, citing economic and reputational risks. In addition, she noted the ambiguous view of a possible rejection from a political point of view. According to her, he will demonstrate that Paris acts on the orders of Washington.

The current disputes around the two "Mistral" for Russia began in May. They have been going on for four months and will last at least until the beginning of November. Thus, from the first requirements of the United States to the final decision of France will take at least six months. In other words, the French leadership needs several months to make a decision. It seems that F. Hollande and his colleagues perfectly understand all the possible consequences of any decision. The transfer of ships will lead to a deterioration in relations with the United States. The refusal, in turn, will embroil Russia with France, as well as “give” the latter a lot of additional problems that could have been avoided.

Everything looks as if French officials, realizing the complexity of the situation, are trying to take time and not to rush to make a decision. They hope that in the near future the confrontation over the events in Ukraine will cease, as a result of which it will be possible to safely fulfill their obligations without regard to the position of foreign partners. From the latest statements by Francois Hollande and his administration, it is clear that now the French leadership intends to postpone the final decision until at least November. What will happen next - time will tell. F. Hollande and his colleagues have to make an extremely difficult choice.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
http://armstrade.org/
http://sipri.org/
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  1. Hyperboreec
    +18
    8 September 2014 09: 48
    Let these barges be left to themselves, and Russia will pay the penalty.
    1. +25
      8 September 2014 10: 36
      They will deliver the Mistral, will puff up until November and perform dances with tambourines, but as soon as they feel the ass approaching stake in the form of forfeit, they will immediately transfer the barges and will smile and wave.
      1. +7
        8 September 2014 10: 55
        They will not be able to sell anything to anyone: for under the terms of the contract, the stern part was collected in St. Petersburg. That is, the aft part, even if the contract is terminated, the payment of penalties, etc., will have to return to their homeland. I doubt very much that anyone would be interested in a ship without a "ass". We are waiting for November 1 and get the Mistral in full. Although: is he needed?
        1. +9
          8 September 2014 12: 58
          Quote: RUSOIVAN
          Although: is it needed?

          And in which case, the landing will be "Davydov" to land, having made 150 shuttle flights?
          Or "Gren", without leaving the outfitting wall ???
        2. +5
          8 September 2014 13: 29
          Quote: RUSOIVAN
          . Although: is it needed?

          and we don’t have transports capable of immediately throwing such a quantity of military equipment ashore. One to the Baltic, to provide Kaliningrad: the other to the Far East, to close the smokers.
          1. +1
            8 September 2014 22: 50
            This is how this transport is drowned with "so much military equipment" at once. Do not put all the testicles in one basket
            1. +1
              9 September 2014 05: 20
              Quote: observer.ru
              So this transport is drowned with "so much military equipment" at times

              With the modern development of technology, any ship can be drowned "at once", there would be a desire. Can you even give up the "baskets with testicles" - the fleet?
          2. molot1ok
            +3
            8 September 2014 23: 15
            Well, Mistral wanted to send to the Far East. But there is one BUT. These ships are the centers of tactical groups and require an escort of 3-4 frigates. Do we have such forces in the Pacific?
            The active grouping of the Pacific Fleet's surface forces consists of the missile cruiser Varyag and 4 large anti-submarine ships of project 1155. There is a destroyer of project 956 "Bystry", but he himself does not go far without tugs, and he is not an escort by definition. Plus it is necessary to protect the SSBN bases and other infrastructure. Many ships are constantly on missions in the Mediterranean Sea, near the Horn of Africa, Japan, Okhotsk and other seas. It turns out that the picture is not very rosy for the second most important Russian fleet.
        3. 0
          8 September 2014 13: 34
          The fact is that they didn’t just buy a trough, along with iron we had to transfer certain technologies, including the code of the SENIT-9 information management system ... This hardware itself is not necessary.
        4. +1
          8 September 2014 21: 07
          Quote: RUSOIVAN
          Although: is it needed?

          and what kind of barge do you need? ... ever unfinished or Polish (barge) express trains built in 70-80?
      2. +2
        8 September 2014 13: 23
        Quote: Sakhalininets
        They will deliver the Mistral, will puff up until November and perform dances with tambourines, but as soon as they feel the ass approaching stake in the form of forfeit, they will immediately transfer the barges and will smile and wave.

        the transmission deadline is in November, and before that you can even wave of it ..... and then the Russians can be appeased. Bablo is reluctant to lose, otherwise the Indian air contract may hang or worse, go to the Russians.
      3. 0
        8 September 2014 17: 36
        only poddyanka bookmarks
      4. mmk
        +1
        9 September 2014 02: 19
        The private trader collects and he does not need rumors about the partner’s unreliability, especially at a time when the crisis and not calm everywhere. The whole ball is now worried and there is tension everywhere, which is a sin to conceal, and such a time has come in the Russian Federation and has been brewing in Ukraine for a very long time, but only now it has blazed.
      5. 0
        9 September 2014 09: 48
        Most likely it will
    2. -6
      8 September 2014 11: 42
      Why did they remove the bar? Or have our sailors not grown, according to our admirals, to the human level?
      1. +5
        8 September 2014 12: 16
        Moscow, July 10. The Russian Ministry of Defense has denied media reports about changes in the design of the Mistral landing craft. The changes in question concerned the presence of bars on board the ships (supposedly supposed to be removed) and small cabins with separate bathrooms (they were proposed to be redesigned into 6- and 12-seater).

        As emphasized in the press service of the Ministry of Defense, no design changes on premises intended for the residence of personnel, as well as his rest, not included in the project. “All the insinuations of individual authors on this subject with the“ opinions ”that have nothing to do with the construction of the ship“ sources ”and“ experts ”are nothing more than a newspaper“ duck, ”the report said.

        According to the Ministry of Defense, provided for rest the bars will be renamed as "lounge". It is planned to equip them with upholstered furniture, video and audio equipment, etc. The only change will be the lack of utensils, places for storing alcoholic beverages, and the drinks themselves. As noted in the department, the change "is fully consistent with Russian maritime culture."

        Also, the military department called the "stupidity" of the message about placing the rank and file of the team in "cockpits with a capacity of 6 to 12 people" with minimizing the amount of sanitary equipment (showers and latrine (toilets)). The area and number of premises for accommodating personnel remained unchanged. For the crew of the vessel there are 1-seater, 2-x and 4-seater cabins (for ordinary crew) cabins, each of which is equipped with bathrooms and showers with a constant supply of cold and hot water, explained in the department.
      2. +5
        8 September 2014 15: 28
        Quote: Civil
        Why did they remove the bar? Or have our sailors not grown, according to our admirals, to the human level?

        In your human level, is this to ferment during service? On a hike all 24 hours a day are at duty, seven days a week. What bar can we talk about?
        1. 0
          8 September 2014 20: 13
          Quote: Homo
          Quote: Civil
          Why did they remove the bar? Or have our sailors not grown, according to our admirals, to the human level?

          In your human level, is this to ferment during service? On a hike all 24 hours a day are at duty, seven days a week. What bar can we talk about?

          That is, according to your main purpose of the bar is to plump, but what about coffee and food? .. well, where does it come from?
          1. 0
            8 September 2014 20: 34
            In fact, there are dining rooms for this.
        2. +3
          9 September 2014 05: 26
          Quote: Homo
          In your human level, is this to ferment during service?

          In the bar you can sit, chat, relax, and not necessarily with alcohol. You have a purely Russian idea of ​​a bar as a place where they "get drunk".
    3. +1
      8 September 2014 11: 49
      It’s not clear to me alone why the rather small Mistral, with its dimensions, doesn’t carry enough troops? Even the UDC is much less displacement, carries the same or even more landing.
      1. +1
        8 September 2014 12: 18
        Crew: 160 people (20 officers) + 450 landing personnel (it is possible to take on board up to 900 people for a short time) and 150 people of staff.

        Total: 760 - long term plus 450 short term.
        1. +1
          8 September 2014 19: 28
          Plus a sickly hospital (70 places), plus a command center (how many places I don’t remember, but the same is decent).
          1. +2
            8 September 2014 23: 27
            And who in the sea in the composition of 70 people to treat in the theater of operations? Diarrhea on the nuclear submarine? Collect the passengers of the Titanic? Useless piece of iron. In the Far East there are no Banana republics to cool off with comfort and a "bar". Look at the composition of the Japanese Navy, in case of kneading it is a trough
            1. 0
              9 September 2014 06: 00
              That is, field hospitals are not needed?
              There are different ships in the Japanese Navy.
        2. +5
          8 September 2014 23: 12
          explain to me the ignorant Mistral took 760 people to the Far East and went to Japan to drive with pissed rags, or he is still moving as part of a squadron, warrant, security ships. Then why in the Russian squadron with Russian say so BSU, PO, etc. foreign piece of iron with foreign software, and even with bookmarks. Have you seen a ship made by China, the Russian Federation, Ivory Coast as part of A Umerovskaya? On a goat goat slaughter? for money
          1. -1
            9 September 2014 05: 33
            Quote: observer.ru
            Did you, as part of A U Gamerovskaya, see a ship manufactured by China, the Russian Federation, Ivory Coast?

            The US shipbuilding industry is able to provide its fleet with modern ships, which can not be said, unfortunately, at the moment about the domestic one. That’s the whole story.
    4. duke
      +4
      8 September 2014 14: 18
      If the Indians are smart enough to understand that they (if suddenly something) are also easily let down under sanctions, then they will quickly abandon Rafaley, because without spare parts and maintenance, as well as weapons for him, it’s just an expensive toy ... that would be a good enema, with gramophone needles, Monsie Hollande ... Dear Indians, call for Russian airplanes, they won’t throw you here .. .
    5. 0
      8 September 2014 21: 04
      Quote: Giperboreec
      Let these barges be left to themselves, and Russia will pay the penalty.

      only a complete fool can say so ..... no one will pay a penalty to Russia if the Mistrals do not deliver, and they will certainly deliver them to us ....
      1. +2
        8 September 2014 23: 30
        Yes, with him a billion, the operation of these ships seems to me to be more expensive, but forfeits from France, well, maybe we can take it, but we will poke them for a long time
    6. Salamander
      +1
      8 September 2014 21: 31
      This golden calf is being discussed again.
    7. 0
      8 September 2014 22: 48
      Bluff. They will be given to regret. A good mine with a bad game. And it would be better if you didn’t give it away, so you can play ... Dreams
    8. 0
      9 September 2014 07: 36
      As the people put it here, these "barges" float at a temperature of +7, and then freeze, plus fuel that we do not produce, you have to buy, and to build a plant for its production, for 2 units, it is impractical. snails and other cold-blooded ones and promise to warm these troughs so that they would float at temperatures down to -20, but something is hard to believe, according to experts, the fuel freezes and for heating the fuel tanks will allegedly be heated by separate generators (that is, an increase in weight and energy consumption) ... Probably for Russia, these ships have more political overtones than strategic, military ones. True for our southern sea, they are still acceptable. These barges will drastically change the balance of forces with NATO countries, and they understand that, that's where hysteria comes from. So Japan can sleep well, their islands are not part of Russia's geopolitical interests, they can continue to calmly eat their raw fish and buy Russian wood, for chopsticks to eat.
      Here is the alignment of friends, it is likely. What do you say about this?
    9. 0
      9 September 2014 21: 47
      Yes "Mistrals" should have been bought just for the sake of this .. watch how the Americans and the French will snatch
  2. +1
    8 September 2014 09: 51
    better let them return lards, let them keep the iron
  3. +1
    8 September 2014 09: 53
    A demonstration demanding the transfer of Mistral-type helicopter carriers to Russia took place today at shipyards in the city of Saint-Nazaire in western France. It is there that Vladivostok is now located in one of the docks - the first of two ships intended for the Russian Navy. About a hundred people took part in the demonstration: members of the Mistral, Let's Win! Movement and representatives of local trade unions.07.09.2014. russian.rt

    SAINT-NAZERE (France), September 7 - RIA Novosti, Victoria Ivanova. The fine to be paid to France in the event of non-delivery or delay in the delivery of the Mistrals will be a serious blow to the country's economy and image, said a member of the City Council of Saint-Nazaire from the National Front party and co-founder of the Mistral, we will win! Jean-Claude Blanchard.

    "The shipyard workers are extremely worried about the latest announcements about the future of the Mistral. The contract was concluded for 1,2 billion euros. Our penalties and penalties for the delay or non-delivery of the ship could exceed the 10 billion mark. And this is a disaster - and for the economy." and for the image. This contract is important both for France as a whole and for Saint-Nazaire. At least 600 people are currently working on the ship, and if the contract is canceled, it will be a disaster, "Blanchard said during the action in support of the delivery of helicopter carriers to the Russian Federation.

    He added that if France does not deliver the ships on time, "does not keep its word and does not fulfill the concluded contract," this will become a dangerous signal for the country and the entire international community.

    A rally in support of the delivery of Mistrals to Russia was held on Sunday at the Saint-Nazaire shipyard, literally a few meters from the mooring of the first of the two ships, the Vladivostok. About a hundred people took part in it - members of the Mistral, we will win! and the union members of the shipyard workers, waving the flags of France and Russia. Those gathered shouted the slogans of the movement: "We will put on the Mistrals and provide the residents of the city with work!", "The transfer of the Mistrals will give life to the shipyard!" and “Mistral, we will win! For our independence!” RIA Novosti

    The first helicopter carrier of the Mistral class under the name Vladivostok (in the main photo) is being prepared for the first time (??? apparently referring to the Russian crew) go to sea on September 10 from the port of Saint-Nazaire for sea trials.

    This is stated in the corresponding columns of the calendar of movement of ships of the French port, reports European Truth.

    His return is expected 19 September in 13.50.

    At the same time, the port administration does not indicate in the corresponding column the name of the agent who placed the order for the helicopter carrier to leave.

    There is a suspicion that Vladivostok may not return from sea trials and thus avoid possible sanctions.http: //inforesist.org



    1. +12
      8 September 2014 13: 50
      There is a suspicion that Vladivostok may not return from sea trials and thus avoid possible sanctions. Http: //inforesist.org
      But I think this is absolutely not necessary, because:
      - we will look corny thieves with all the ensuing consequences of reputation,
      - lose the second mistral,
      - we will lose all the money paid for the Mistrals and there can be no question of any compensation claims from the French,
      - we will help the Frenchmen get out of the water dry and instead of a lever of pressure on them,
      We will give additional arguments against ourselves.
      In short, if this happens, I will consider these people (organizers and performers) traitors.
      Let everything be done according to the contract, let the French worry, not us.
      1. +3
        8 September 2014 14: 17
        Purely theoretically, if during the sea trials they sign (if they have not already signed) all the necessary acts, documents for export authorization may have already been prepared by a glanders. And no breaches of the contract. Who knows...
        1. +3
          8 September 2014 14: 23
          every day delays in the delivery of ships, brings to the treasury of Russia 1 million euros! bully
          1. +2
            8 September 2014 19: 40
            Quote: Artyom
            every day delays in the delivery of ships, brings to the treasury of Russia 1 million euros! bully

            Everything is going perfectly. We receive money and a penalty for the construction of new ships in our shipyards, and France hemorrhoids in full.
            It’s worth a little wait and they themselves will drive him to Vladivostok and ask that they don’t refuse!
          2. +1
            8 September 2014 21: 11
            Quote: Artyom
            every day delays in the delivery of ships, brings to the treasury of Russia 1 million euros!

            contract to the studio .... especially in terms of penalties .... if there is no such, then there is nothing to write dregs
      2. +1
        8 September 2014 21: 03
        The fact of the matter is that we need either both ships, or not one!
  4. +5
    8 September 2014 10: 15
    MOSCOW, September 5. / ITAR-TASS /. France will not be able to sell the Mistral helicopter carriers under construction for Russia to a third country if the contract is terminated, primarily because of the high cost of these ships. This point of view was expressed in an interview with the correspondent. ITAR-TASS Expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Maxim Shapovalenko.
    “If the contract is terminated, the French will only get a headache: they will not be able to sell these ships to anyone,” the specialist believes. “There are no people willing to buy these expensive ships, and even with ice reinforcement of the hull, made specially for the Russian order. There were negotiations with South Africa, but ended in nothing
    1. +4
      8 September 2014 12: 09
      Quote: enot73
      There are no people who want to buy these expensive ships, and even with an ice hull reinforcement made specifically for the Russian order. There were negotiations with South Africa, but ended in nothing

      And why has everyone forgotten about China? It seems to me that you can do it differently, so that "the sheep are safe and the wolves are fed" - to sell the Mistral to China, and he will already sell them to us (if we need them) for the money from the forfeit received from France. Then the Americans will strangle themselves with anger.
      1. +4
        8 September 2014 15: 53
        Quote: СРЦ П-15
        And why has everyone forgotten about China? It seems to me that it can be done differently, so that "the sheep are safe and the wolves are fed" - to sell the Mistral to China,
        Does China need them? At one time, they sold the aircraft carrier "Kiev" at a cheap price. In 2011, the aircraft carrier "Kiev" was completely converted into a luxury hotel with 148 rooms of different categories, including the presidential class, for which about $ 15 million was spent. the cabins of the sailors were re-equipped.
  5. -3
    8 September 2014 10: 16
    Cannot be in limbo! YES or NO. Better money back and a big penalty. Who needs these barges built to Russian standards? Perhaps Angola will buy them for a third of the price for its pirates, or maybe Luanda as a floating prison. France must be pulled! They want to sit on 2 chairs, but X fagots to you!
    1. +7
      8 September 2014 11: 15
      Angola doesn’t and never has piracy, and Luanda is not a country at all, but the capital of Angola, and they don’t need to buy Mistral as a floating prison, the country has quite comfortable prisons built by the Portuguese. Piracy is a specialty of Somalia, and with regards to Mistral-Hollande obviously he just takes time, hoping that in a month or two the Americans will lift some sanctions. He isn’t such as to jeopardize France’s reputation as a manufacturer and reliable supplier of weapons, the French earn a lot of money and refuse to for the sake of their unloved mattresses, they will not, I'm sure.
  6. +2
    8 September 2014 10: 20
    We call it - take by the egg))). In any case: "Your word, Madame Le Pen")))))))) Oland in this situation reminds me of a crucian carp on a hook
  7. +7
    8 September 2014 10: 28
    Not quite in the subject, but interesting - in Algeria, the landing helicopter carrier was launched.
    Under the spoiler photo:

    Specifications:

    -Total displacement = 9000 tons
    -Length = 142.9 meters
    -Width = 21.5 meters
    -Flight deck with two runways and landing pads for heavy-lift helicopters in the extremities and 30-ton lift in the central part of the deck
    -The power plant includes two diesel engines Wärtsilä 12V32 rated at 6000 kW
    -The maximum speed = 20 knots
    -Cruising range = 11,265 km
    -The crew = 150 people
    -The landing force = 440 people
    1. +3
      8 September 2014 11: 10
      Supplement:

      1. +2
        8 September 2014 12: 32
        and we still make "ivan gren" in 5000 tons. damn how so?
        1. +7
          8 September 2014 13: 03
          Quote: ruslan
          and we still make "ivan gren" in 5000 tons. damn how so?

          As usual - there was no money, then a clear understanding of what should eventually turn out, then with a weapon, or without, so he is aging without being born. For this gives reason to shout on the forums - we ourselves can build ,,,,,
        2. +3
          8 September 2014 13: 38
          Quote: ruslan
          and we still make "ivan gren" in 5000 tons. damn how so?

          what order we were doing, we needed aircraft carriers to build cruisers: now the shipyards are loaded to capacity, the Black Sea have left, only the north and the Baltic have remained.
        3. +1
          9 September 2014 05: 42
          Quote: ruslan
          and we still make "ivan gren" in 5000 tons. damn how so?

          And you ask the local cheers-patriots, they are now threatening to make ships, how to bake pies! And all the money earned from breaking the contract for the Mistrals - quickly and efficiently!
  8. +3
    8 September 2014 10: 34
    Well this is how you need to substitute yourself, so as to bend under the Matrasnikov. When your own country is ready to tear you up. Oland think better of it.
    1. 0
      8 September 2014 13: 41
      Quote: PROXOR
      so cave under the Mattresses. When your own country is ready to tear you up. Oland think better of it.

      he just spins so that he doesn’t lose his hatred, and fulfill the Russian order, and not soak the manufacturer’s reputation.
  9. +3
    8 September 2014 10: 40
    E my, this is cooler than Santa Barbara, it’s necessary to monitor this event every week and in the News on the first channel a separate short review on this subject, literally a couple of minutes, but the splash screen must surely play the famous music from the series and photos Obama, Hollande, Merkel, Le Pen, Putin, Medvedev and Poroshenko follow one after another, as in the original shorter ...
  10. +6
    8 September 2014 10: 42
    "the president's words were political and had no political consequences"
    Gorgeous phrase! There is character, there are no consequences ... "A plan without intent is fiction!"
  11. +2
    8 September 2014 10: 58
    That's interesting. The French refuse to supply us Mistral return prepayment pay fines. I am interested in the question of the feed parts did we do they will return them, I would demand the return of the feed parts.
    1. +2
      8 September 2014 12: 22
      Quote: bmv04636
      That's interesting. The French refuse to supply us Mistral return prepayment pay fines. I am interested in the question of the feed parts did we do they will return them, I would demand the return of the feed parts.

      That is why the size of the penalty varies from 3 to 10 billion. If the contract breaks then the French will buy them.
      1. 0
        8 September 2014 12: 57
        But I would still make them cut out and return the feed parts. Return the advance and pay no penalty
        1. +2
          8 September 2014 21: 15
          Quote: bmv04636
          But I would still force them to cut and return the rear parts

          and how would you force them? ... if there is a decision not to hand over the Mistrals to us ... then we will not "receive" the stability through the Stratburg court ... and how do you think he will right away and make a decision in our direction ?...naive
          1. +1
            8 September 2014 23: 35
            we privatize Renault in AvtoVAZ. then I can do business, we don’t?
            1. -1
              9 September 2014 10: 43
              Quote: observer.ru
              we privatize Renault in AvtoVAZ. then I can do business, we don’t?

              )) Well, well ..... business then .... learn the mat part, then write ... and most importantly, before you say, you need to think !!
        2. 0
          9 September 2014 05: 47
          Quote: bmv04636
          And I would make

          "If only I were a queen ..."
    2. 0
      9 September 2014 05: 46
      Quote: bmv04636
      , I would demand the return of the feed.

      And what to do with them, cook together? Better money.
  12. +1
    8 September 2014 11: 04
    Quote: PROXOR
    Well this is how you need to substitute yourself, so as to bend under the Matrasnikov. When your own country is ready to tear you up. Oland think better of it.

    Yes. Hollande wants to eat fish and ride a horse. Look at such an amoeba-like creature that has no will, no strength, no power, where Obama licks oranges, and you think our president is still better!
  13. +1
    8 September 2014 11: 06
    Urgent Serdyukov in the deputies Shoigu - everything will turn out !!!!
    1. +1
      8 September 2014 16: 12
      "Sho, again!?." (m / f "Once upon a time there was a dog", quoting the Wolf belay )
      Humor is good.
      Historical (now) reference. Serdyukov wanted for our aircraft:
      - Italian armored cars;
      - "English" sniper rifles;
      - German "rear zones" (tents);
      - French helicopter carriers;
      - and many more different "goodies".
      And all this "wealth" would be ours. Like Ukrainian body armor. negative
  14. 0
    8 September 2014 11: 15
    Violation of the delivery time is a break in the contract. Or not? And now the Kremlin will say and do? Antirezna is dumber ...
  15. -1
    8 September 2014 11: 19
    As they already got with these vessels, return the loot and do not stand up and shove yourself these Mistrals
    to the bay! "!!
  16. +1
    8 September 2014 11: 23
    "... first of all, surprise was caused by the approach to the case of the President of France and his administration ..."
    The approach is simple: in a Gay European way, eat the fish and sit down, that is, the best option: Russia will pay for the construction of "golden pans", and France, in the form of sanctions, will transfer these pans to Ukraine in the form of military aid.
  17. Yankuz
    +1
    8 September 2014 11: 45
    In light of all the recent events around the Mistral for my fleet, I propose to think about the role of Serdyukov in this whole story. Or maybe he still needs to be thanked for creating potential conditions in 2011 for a concrete check of the French for lice. Anyway, this allowed NATO to be brought to clean water. And if you look even further, then the idea suggests that Serdyukov in general can be a Hero! See how NATO is all sausages from its Mistral!
  18. Yankuz
    +2
    8 September 2014 11: 49
    Well, if you think so and evaluate to the maximum the potential lawlessness of our "partners", then it may happen that we will not receive the Mistrals either, and with money, incl. they will try to throw us forfeit. Then you will have to follow our Mistrals like in the good old days ...
  19. +1
    8 September 2014 12: 46
    Most importantly, in case of refusal to supply the Mistrals, France may well lose the contract for the supply of 129 Rafale fighters to India, which is already in limbo, and this is at least 10 billion dollars. + It will also have a big effect in the future, + will show the president’s spinelessness (and his rating leaves much to be desired, he already managed to do things) + big losses for the enterprise, + loss of image as a reliable supplier. France and Hollande in particular are much more profitable to fulfill this contract, because There will be many consequences.
    1. +1
      8 September 2014 14: 14
      Quote: Anton Gavrilov
      + the Frenchman will show the president’s spinelessness (and his rating already leaves much to be desired; he already managed to do things

      He already has a rating at the baseboard level, especially after the legalization of same-sex marriage ...
      1. +1
        8 September 2014 14: 55
        Why tautology?
    2. +1
      9 September 2014 07: 02
      And what does the contract with India have to do with it? Do you really think that the Indians will harness themselves for the "brothers of the Slavs" and, purely from this principle, will refuse to increase the country's defense capability? It is unlikely that such details will stop them, unless they introduce a couple of other points into the contract and / and cut the price based on the precedent. As practice shows, in such matters, the Indians are very cunning guys, and the loss of the image of the French will only play into their hands (let's not forget that no one imposed sanctions on India and it is free in its choice) hi
  20. +16
    8 September 2014 12: 47
    But tell me, dear "hurray-patriots" which Russian large landing craft (as part of the fleet) is capable of landing amphibious assault forces "from over the horizon" with the aid of submarines and helicopters, as well as providing airborne support to the landing? I'm sure you won't answer. Our BDK, both project 775 and project 1171, are capable of landing personnel and equipment only on the coast, being exposed to the danger of being destroyed or damaged.

    And under construction for 8 years (since 2004, they plan to enter the fleet next year), the large landing craft "Ivan Gren" pr. 11771 carries only one Ka-29 airborne combat helicopter, does not have a dock chamber, that is, it is not capable of transporting a submarine and for the landing of the amphibious assault is also forced to be washed ashore.

    The Mistal UDC was built in 2 years (laid down on 01.02.2012/15.10.2013/8, launched on 52/8/29) carries 2 Ka-1K fire support helicopters, 1996 Ka-XNUMX transport and combat helicopters and XNUMX DKA of the CTM NG project and will become the first rank XNUMX surface ship to join our Navy since XNUMX, after the transfer of the Peter the Great TARKR to the fleet
    http://russian-ships.info/boevye/mistral.htm

    Yes, in the Soviet Navy there were similar ships 3 BDK project 1174 "Rhino", which carried 4 Ka-29 and 6 DKA pr.1176 or pr.1785 or 3 on an air cushion pr.1206. (SF- "Mitrofan M_oskalenko"; Pacific Fleet: "Alexander Nikolaev", "Ivan Rogov"), but all of them are currently decommissioned: "Ivan Rogov" in 1995; "Alexander Nikolaev" and "Mitrofan M_oskalenko" in 2006.


    Is our military-industrial complex capable of building a corral similar to Mistral in 2 years? I'm sure not. The timing of the construction of "Ivan Gren", the displacement of which is 3,5 times less (6000 tons versus 22500 tons for the Mistral), I indicated above, and now, to carry out the "Syrian Express", we have to repair the ancient large landing craft of project 1171: the Saratov large landing craft has been transferred fleet in 1966, large landing craft "Orsk" in 1968.
    1. +2
      8 September 2014 12: 54
      Well, does anyone really think sensibly! With Gren, the truth is far from being as simple as it seems at first glance, but nonetheless ...
    2. +2
      8 September 2014 13: 06
      Quote: Novel 1977

      Everything is so, only "Gren" has been building for ten years, eight "Pots" are suffering.
    3. +3
      8 September 2014 13: 23
      There is a good comparison picture:


    4. +1
      8 September 2014 13: 40
      We also don't have Nimitz-class aircraft carriers. How does this threaten us?
    5. +3
      8 September 2014 14: 06
      Dear Roman! Landing "over the horizon" is not a panacea for all amphibious assault forces, especially if it depends on the only ship in the fleet, which can also be drowned "over the horizon" with all its equipment and personnel. The Mistral is, in fact, more of a military transport than a warship. Perhaps there is fish for fishlessness and cancer, but it’s not a big deal if these troughs don’t get into our fleet. Finally, the BDK can land equipment far from the coast, if not for fools and traitors, the same BMP-3F, would be very useful to our marines.
      Design features compared to the basic BMP-3 give the BMP-3F the ability to move afloat when swaying at an 3 score, conduct aimed fire afloat when waves are up to 2 points, and water-jet propulsors provide maneuvering and loading on landing ships on their own from the water during waves .

      High-performance water drainage devices (1500 l / min) ensure the car is safely in the water for a long time, the range of fuel on water is at least 7 hours. The design of the BMP-ZF allows for towing the same product when operated on water, or moving in tow behind sea raid boats.

      The fleet needs to be strengthened, and universal helicopter carriers are needed, but, the main conclusion, do not rely on the goodwill of the enemies when ordering equipment in a NATO member country.
      1. +8
        8 September 2014 14: 25
        Quote: Per se.
        Dear Roman! Landing "over the horizon" is not a panacea for all amphibious assault forces, especially if it depends on the only ship in the fleet, which can also be drowned "over the horizon" with all its equipment and personnel. The Mistral is, in fact, more of a military transport than a warship. Perhaps there is fish for fishlessness and cancer, but it’s not a big deal if these troughs don’t get into our fleet. Finally, the BDK can land equipment far from the coast, if not for fools and traitors, the same BMP-3F, would be very useful to our marines.

        Dear Sergei, the landing can be brought to the shore by boats, as during the Kerch-Feodosiya landing operation in December 1941, and armored vehicles can be transported on civilian ferries, but this does not make them warships. The same Mistral, in addition to being able to land "over the horizon" with the aid of a DKA, is capable of providing air support to the landing force (8 KA-52K, 8 KA-29), and any ship can be drowned, it all depends on the forces of the PVo and PLO support. Now, with regard to the UDC, forgive the big one, all the more or less advanced countries of the world are trying to have them in their forces: p_indos, small-britters and the French completely abandon landing ships in favor of the UDC, the Chinese are building a series of UDCs of the "Qinchenshan" type, etc. 071 (already 3 in service), with a displacement of 19 tons, 000 paratroopers, 1000 Z-4 helicopters, 8 air-cushion landing ships in the dock, 4 armored combat vehicles; South Koreans - "Dokdo"; the Japanese Izumo (this is more of a light aircraft carrier); the same South Koreans having tonsured the Indonesians 20 UDC "Makassar", the total displacement of 2 tons, landing capacity: 11 people, 400 tanks, 500 submarines, gave them a license for their construction, and now the Indonesians are building them for the Philippines and Myanmar; the other day, even Algeria, clearly not a legislator of naval fashion, received an Italian UDC with a total displacement of 13 tons. The ship's dock chamber provides the basing of three LCM-class tank landing boats (which were built in Algeria by the Navy shipyard according to Fincantieri's drawings). In addition, on davits and sponsons, the Algerian DVKD will carry three LCVP-type small landing craft, one LCP (L) type and two semi-rigid motor boats. A small hangar ("garage") deck can accommodate up to 2 armored vehicles or five T-9000SA tanks. The crew of the ship will be 15 people (including the composition of the air group), and the landing capacity is 90 people.
        http://bmpd.livejournal.com/tag/Алжир


        Some of us all choose whether we need UDC or not? Everyone agrees that, of course, they are needed and the second question arises, but can we build them ourselves? And it turns out that no ...
        1. +1
          9 September 2014 06: 46
          Quote: Novel 1977
          And it turns out that no ...
          The fact that UDCs are needed, like aircraft carriers as a whole, for a full-fledged fleet, personally, I have no doubts. The question is whether the Mistrals were needed. This is if you order "on the side". Another point, you say that we cannot build such ships ourselves ... This, in my opinion, is a rather controversial statement. Before ordering the Mistrals, ours declared their readiness and ability to build their own UDCs, develop their production and their jobs, but the choice was not made for a domestic project. "Mistral", as a warship, is no better than even the old Soviet projects, moreover, much worse if you take into account their revision. If the stern was made in Russia for the French project, then they could have made the entire hull, they could have built the entire ship. The fact that in France is faster ... We will not develop our own, so in general we will lose the industry. As for the large landing craft and smaller landing ships, one should not forget about the specifics of the same Baltic, the Black Sea, and, moreover, the Caspian. The ships are needed different and the future is unlikely only for the newfangled "over-the-horizon landing". In the rest, I agree with you, especially, returning to the topic of the possibility of air support for assault forces by carrier-based aviation of the ship group.
    6. +3
      8 September 2014 14: 20
      I fully agree that Project 1174 loses to Mistral in almost all respects except possibly for landing, and 4 against 16 helicopters + on the Mistral Hospital for 70 places + this is a control ship.
    7. +1
      8 September 2014 19: 37
      deadlines you're right. but where to land? in Hokkaido? The fleet must be balanced. And you need to start with other ships. Moreover, now there is no Pacific Fleet. There is a flotilla of diverse forces.
      1. -2
        8 September 2014 20: 12
        Quote: alekc73
        deadlines you're right. but where to land? in Hokkaido? The fleet must be balanced. And you need to start with other ships. Moreover, now there is no Pacific Fleet. There is a flotilla of diverse forces.

        We now have all the fleets, in fact, these are flotillas of diverse forces, well, maybe with the exception of CFL and then: firstly, it’s difficult to resist there; secondly enclosed space.
        And there everything is not as perfect as we would like, since the Iranians in November will take their Fateh submarine, with a displacement of 500 tons, which is currently being tested in the Caspian.

        And anti-submarine ships in the KFL-0, there are not even ships with anti-submarine weapons.
        I don't particularly want to recall the rest of the fleets, since the repair of any ship of rank 1-2 makes an irreparable gap. Let us recall that Kuznetsov and Petra and Levchenko in the Mediterranean were planned to replace the Moskva and Smetlivy SCR with the Black Sea Fleet, the Yaroslav Mudry SCR with the Baltic Fleet and the Admiral Kulakov with the Northern Fleet. Of all these ships, only the BOD pr.1155 "Kulakov" (without anti-ship missiles) and the TFR "Smetlivy" 1969, with the obsolete "Volna" air defense missile system, turned out to be in Mediterranean. RRC "Moscow" has enough work to do at the World Cup, where ships of our "sworn friends" regularly climb, and "Yaroslav the Wise" was under repair until May, and only on August 9 went on a campaign to the Gulf of Aden to fight pirates. And there is nothing to replace these ships: the second TFR pr. 11540 "Fearless" is under repair by the end of 2015, and the RRC pr. 1164 "Varyag" has enough work to do in the Pacific Ocean. Now, with regard to the landing on Hokkaido, I'm afraid at this rate we can land it on the Kuril Islands. fellow
        At this rate, following the destroyers of Project 956, we will finally kill the resource of the "workhorses" of the BOD fleet of Project 1155, used as destroyers, and the remaining BDKs and there will be nothing at all to withdraw from large ships into the sea.

        The situation with the MPK is no better: MPK pr.1124 (20 units) is aging rapidly (the youngest (MPK Snezhnogorsk is 20 years old), and is already outdated (PVO-1 PU "OSA-MA", 20 missiles, no helicopter), IPC pr.1331 (7 units) on the BF, do not have missile weapons at all and are practically useless against modern submarines.
  21. +6
    8 September 2014 13: 04
    Do not be shy to buy what we still can not afford or not profitable to produce. Mistral is a successful acquisition and I hope ours will learn to clone them.
    1. +4
      8 September 2014 13: 26
      Before the Second World War, the leadership of the USSR did not consider it shameful to order and buy warships and power plants in Germany and Italy - remind you who was in power in these countries then? And how these ships came in handy during the same World War II - for example, the famous leader of the Italian-built Tashkent destroyers. For some reason, they were not afraid of accusations of loss of ideological virginity and lack of patriotism .. One ship we have more - one less ship they have, in my opinion.
      1. +4
        8 September 2014 14: 34
        The issue with the purchase of warships abroad, in order to strengthen the Navy, has long been ripe, no matter how the shipbuilding bosses from the USC oppose this. It's just that when choosing a construction company, Mr. Serdyukov made the mistake of choosing the French (I don't know why maybe he was promised a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies or Mrs. Vasilyeva was tempted by lace French linen, this is a great secret), but again no one did not know in 2010 when the contract on the construction of ships was concluded, what would happen in 2014. In the end, we could place an order in South Korea, but we have what we have ... Therefore, the Mistral must be defended with all our might, since we have nothing to replace it with and unfortunately our own industry will not raise such a ship ...
        Now, with regard to the construction of ships abroad, do not forget that 1/3 of the fleet of Tsarist Russia was built abroad. Comrade Stalin, whom no one will reproach for lack of patriotism, bought the Luttsov heavy cruiser from the Germans, and the Tashkent leader from the Italians.


        And after the war, take the battleship Väinemäinen from the Finns and include it in our Navy, calling it Vyborg and the entire Romanian fleet, not counting the ships received under the division of the German and Italian fleets.

        In Soviet times, all BDK pr. 775 and not only were built at Polish shipyards.
        And now they do not hesitate to send our ships for repairs to a NATO member country - Bulgaria (BDK pr. 775 "Caesar Kunnikov" and UK pr. 887 "Perekop")

        arrival of the large landing craft "Caesar Kunnikov" for repairs in Varna.
        Unfortunately, time does not wait, the Soviet legacy: BDK pr. 775, built from 1974 to 1991. (as part of the Navy-15), and where to repair them? For obvious reasons, the Poles are falling away, well, we get out ourselves, but the Bulgarians help, although they are NATO members themselves.
        BDK pr.1171 are generally the oldest ships of the fleet, for they were built from 1966 to 1974. (BDK "Saratov" the oldest ship of the Navy was transferred to the Navy in 1966). Now the Orsk, which was transferred to the fleet in 1968, is being repaired.
        Now keep in mind that the ships over the past 2 years have been extremely worn out by the "Syrian Express", for which it was required to create a grouping of large landing ships from all 4 fleets and the transportation of "polite people" from Novorossiysk to Crimea.
        And to replace them, only 2 (TWO) BDKs of project 11771 are being built: "Ivan Gren", laid down already in 2004, well, it seems that next year they are going to transfer it to the fleet (11-2010 years) and the second ship of the series laid down in October 2017 , which according to the plan should become part of the fleet already in November XNUMX.
        Yes, and we don’t have 10 years, after 10 years, the Soviet BDK will fail (God forbid, of course), but we will finally mature to build our landing ships ...
        1. +2
          8 September 2014 16: 59
          You are partly wrong. Mistral was chosen soon because it is completely French, Korean, Spanish, Dutch projects from 25-50% consist of any American parts or systems and we probably would not have sold them.
  22. -2
    8 September 2014 13: 28
    And as for me, it would be better instead of the Mistrals to stand a couple of Boreas, there would be more sense.
    1. 0
      8 September 2014 17: 01
      There is no doubt that the boreas are needed and ash trees, but the whole fleet needs to be developed, and the problem with the boulevard for boreas is not resolved.
    2. +1
      8 September 2014 19: 37
      Firstly, these are different types of ships with different tasks.
      Secondly, they build as much as they can, and "Borei" and "Ash" and repair "Pike".
  23. Analgin
    +3
    8 September 2014 13: 44
    As the saying goes, "on a long journey the beetle is meat." The bourgeois "Mistrals" will also be useful to us, let them guard Crimea. As long as oil prices are high, you have to buy, even abroad, since we ourselves do not know how (or do not yet know how).
  24. -2
    8 September 2014 13: 51
    I think we need at most one Mistral ship (mainly for obtaining new technologies and largely spent experience in building large warships), and even that one in the Pacific Ocean, in the closed Black Sea, this monster without the powerful support of escort ships (of which we have almost not left there) will simply turn into an easy target for anti-ship missiles, aircraft and submarines.
    In the Black Sea, it will still be more appropriate to develop a line of landing ships of the 1174 Ivan Rogov type.
    1. +2
      8 September 2014 14: 05
      I do not agree with you 4 mistrals the best option for 2 each for the North and Pacific + to them would be 2-3 1174 "Ivan Rogov". and Project 11711 ("Ivan Gren") of 4-5 is enough for the Baltic and Black Sea Fleets, the old BDKs of the Black Sea Fleet can cope with flights to Syria.
      1. -3
        8 September 2014 14: 32
        The ships of the Mistral type in the Northern Fleet have nothing to do at all, they are not intended for sailing in difficult winter conditions (therefore, the purchased ships go to the relatively warm Black Sea and Pacific Ocean).
        "Ivan Gren" is the further development of ships of the "Ivan Rogov" type, and as you said, they should be owned and developed in the "closed" Baltic and Black Seas.
        1. +4
          8 September 2014 15: 01
          Quote: quilted jacket
          "Ivan Gren" is the further development of ships of the "Ivan Rogov" type, and as you said, they should be owned and developed in the "closed" Baltic and Black Seas.

          Excuse me what development:
          Compare Yourself:
          BDK pr.11711 "Ivan Gren". Full displacement 6000 tons. Airborne capacity: 1 Ka-29 transport and combat helicopter, 13 main tanks or 36 armored personnel carriers, 300 people or 1500 tons of cargo.


          BDK pr. 1174 "Rhino" Full displacement: 13 880 tons. Airborne capacity: 4 transport-combat helicopters Ka-29 (Ivan Rogov until 1985 - Ka25PS), 6 DKA pr.1176 or pr.1785 or 3 pr.1206; 46 medium tanks (without DKA) or 23 medium tanks (with DKA) or 79 BTT units and 440 people or 120 ZIL-130 trucks and 500 people or 1730 tons of cargo.
          http://russian-ships.info/boevye/1174.htm


          Compare ships different in class and displacement, to put it mildly unwise. Learn the materiel.
          "Ivan Gren" is a "fattened" (full displacement of 4650 tons), redesigned and received a helicopter landing platform BDK pr. 1171, late 60s-early 70s, also under construction in Kaliningrad, at the Baltic Shipyard Yantar , which was a continuation of the American LST, during the Second World War.
          The landing forces of our Navy are morally obsolete back in the 80s, and now they are physically outdated in terms of combat capabilities, not even in the top ten. This imbalance and were called upon to eliminate the "Mistrals" quickly. In the late 80s, they began to develop analogues of the American UDC of the "Tarava" type UDC of project 11780, the so-called. "Ivan Tarava" (displacement: 25 tons; options: landing version - 000 Ka-12; anti-submarine - 29 Ka-25. In the dock chamber - 27 landing craft project 4 or 1176 landing craft on air cushion project 2)

          UDC was supposed to have a continuous deck, which allowed the use of both helicopters and Yak-38 vertical take-off and landing aircraft. The development was carried out throughout the 80 years, and was completed by the 1991 year, but everyone was no longer up to the UDC ... Yes, and they were planned to be built on the Black Sea Shipyard, in Nikolaev, the stocks of which were occupied by the TAVKR pr. 1143.5 under construction.
          1. -1
            8 September 2014 15: 28
            Well, in some ways, I agree with you though (all the following is a development of the previous one, such as airplanes that developed into so many classes from the only Wright brothers' airplane).
            But I completely disagree with this:
            Therefore, the "Mistral" must be defended with all our might, since we have nothing to replace it with and our own industry, unfortunately, until such a ship picks up ...

            We need to make new ships ourselves, and not depend on some kind of France, etc. Let it be longer, more complicated and less modern, but it will be our domestic.
            And making large-scale purchases abroad is not only not entirely smart, but even criminal. We already had one foreign lover, the furniture maker Serdyukov, we don't need more such "personnel".
            1. +1
              8 September 2014 15: 52
              Quote: quilted jacket
              We need to make new ships ourselves, and not depend on some kind of France, etc. Let it be longer, more complicated and less modern, but it will be our own. And making large-scale purchases abroad is not only not entirely smart, but even criminal ... We already had one foreign lover, the furniture maker Serdyukov, we don't need more such "personnel".

              Excuse me which ships? From 2000 to the present day (14 years), 1 (ONE) ship of the second rank-SKR pr. 11540 "Yaroslav the Wise", with a total displacement of 4350 tons, laid down on 27.05.1988/1990/19.07.2009, launched in June XNUMX, was delivered to the fleet. July XNUMX, XNUMX


              The same "Ivan Gren", they have been torturing for 10 (TEN) years: laid down on December 23.12.2004, 18.05.2012, launched on 2015/2010/2016, they plan to transfer to the fleet in 2017, the second ship of the project laid down in October XNUMX, according to the plan should be launched in XNUMX year, and transferred to the fleet already in XNUMX.

              BDK "Ivan Gren" under construction, July 2014.
              The corvettes of project 20380, with a total displacement of 2220 tons, have been under construction for 8 years, in the Far East all 9 (the Corvette "Perfect", laid down on June 30.06.2006, 22350 has not even been launched into the water), and the construction of the frigate of project 8 also lasts for 01.02.2006 years (laid down on 29.10.2010, launched on XNUMX) and it is not known when it will end, we can only dream of destroyers.

              unfortunate frigate pr. 22350 "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov"
              Everything else is "Soviet groundwork", which is rapidly deteriorating and there is nothing to replace. How will you replace the BOD of Project 1155 or the same destroyers of Project 956?
              1. 0
                8 September 2014 16: 16
                Well, everything is not so bad as you want to show (here is the composition of the Russian Navy by fleets: http: //www.russian-ships.info/today/) ships and submarines (including nuclear ones) are being built, the only thing I would like to quickly .
                So our fleet is the second (or third, after the Chinese Navy, depending on how you count it) in terms of the power of ships in the world, after the US Navy.
                How do you replace the BOD pr.1155 or the same destroyers pr 956?

                For example, this.
                Promising destroyer for the Russian Navy project "Leader"
                http://pahapct.livejournal.com/25167.html

                The Russian Navy, within the framework of the State Armament Program, which is valid until 2020, can receive new destroyers of the ocean zone, the development of which is carried out as part of the Leader project. The fact that such a ship in the future will go into service with Russia was announced at the end of March this year by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov. Thanks to the commissioning of new destroyers, the capabilities of the Russian fleet to ensure a permanent presence in the oceans will expand significantly.
                http://www.modernarmy.ru/new/86/perspektivniy-esminec-lider-dlya-vmf-rossii
                1. +1
                  8 September 2014 16: 49
                  Quote: quilted jacket
                  Well, everything is not so bad as you want to show (here is the composition of the Russian Navy by fleets: http: //www.russian-ships.info/today/) ships and submarines (including nuclear ones) are being built, the only thing I would like to quickly . So our fleet is the second (or third, after the Chinese Navy, depending on how you count it) by the power of ships in the world, after the US Navy.

                  And I do not belong to the category of people shouting that "everything is gone" and everything was cut ... ", I am just a realist and I do not think that the ships are virtual, but those that are in the ranks and which can go to sea. at the present time we do not have ANY working submarine-B-261 "Novorossiysk" on the Black Sea, we do not count it yet, it has not yet passed all the tests, and when God knows at the World Cup, against 14 Turkish; and in the Baltic , we have one diesel-electric submarine, project 877, built in 1983 - B-227 "Vyborg" against 5 Polish, 5 Swedish, of which 3 projects "Gotland" with air-independent Stirling engines and 6 German newest project 212A with an electric motor. and surface ships, 6 BOD pr.1155-clean "anti-submarine" without anti-ship missiles, and 3 destroyers pr. 956 due to problems with the DKU became essentially ships of the near sea zone, and they are not expected to be replaced, but our only ship, which can be called the destroyer "Admiral Chabanenko" pr. 1155.1 under repair at least until the end tsa 2015.

                  Which of the 5 TFRs, on the move 3: "Yaroslav the Wise", "Sharp-witted" pr. 01190 - the last of the "singing frigates" pr. 61, built in 1969, the air defense of which is represented by the Volna-N air defense system, which is a naval version of the ancient S -125 "Neva" and "Pytlivy" pr. 1135M, built in 1981, also a pure "anti-submarine" (anti-ship missile system), and the air defense system is only 2 "OSA-MA" air defense systems, i.e. practically also not, but they are also not foreseen soon, out of 6 zazed TFR pr. 11356, only 5 were laid, and GTUs were installed only on 3, since they were built in Ukraine, which refuses to supply them, despite the fact that they have already been paid ...

                  I already wrote about the problems with frigates of the 22350 ave. Above, and the corvettes of the 20380 ave., I also wrote above about the period of their construction, are ships of the marine zone. From 28 multipurpose nuclear submarines (SF-18; Pacific Fleet-10), 11 (SF-7, Pacific Fleet-4), i.e. less than half ... I can go on.
                  1. -2
                    8 September 2014 17: 05
                    Yes, you are not panicking so everything will be fine smile
                    1. +2
                      9 September 2014 06: 06
                      Quote: quilted jacket
                      Yes, you are not panicking so everything will be fine

                      That’s for sure, we have a hat to hell - we’ll throw the adversary!
                  2. 0
                    8 September 2014 17: 12
                    Yes, unfortunately you are right, but the process has begun, although it is going slowly and projects are being built: 22350,20380,11356,885,955,636,677.
                2. 0
                  8 September 2014 18: 09
                  Quote: quilted jacket
                  For example, this. A promising destroyer for the Russian Navy, the Leader project http://pahapct.livejournal.com/25167.htmlThe Russian Navy, within the framework of the State Armament Program valid until 2020, can receive new ocean-going destroyers under development under the Leader project . The fact that such a ship in the future will go into service with Russia was announced at the end of March this year by Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov. Thanks to the commissioning of new destroyers, the capabilities of the Russian fleet to ensure a permanent presence in the oceans will expand significantly. Http://www.modernarmy.ru/new/86/perspektivniy-esminec-lider


                  -dlya-vmf-
                  rossii

                  The project of the promising destroyer "Leader" is still under development and it seems that it has not even been approved yet.
                  On February 26, 2013, RIA Novosti published information that a competition for conducting research work "Leader" was announced for the development of a preliminary design for the creation of a new destroyer, the funding of which was included in the State Defense Order for 2013. The R&D completion date is the end of 2013. The Severnoye PKB will certainly participate in the competition for the creation of the preliminary design of the ship, the rest of the participants are unknown. After summing up the results of the preliminary design competition, R&D is planned in 2014, and the construction of the lead ship is still planned to begin in 2016.

                  http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-636.html

                  So, the layout, the photo of which you posted below, even corresponds to the harsh reality. The laying of the first ship is planned for 2016. Taking into account the timing of the construction of smaller displacement frigates pr. 22350 (already 8 years) and corvettes pr. Do not forget that even in the USSR, about 20380-8 years passed from the moment the project of a ship of this class was developed until it was put into operation. For example, the development of the previous project 6 destroyers was started on the basis of the resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 8-10 of September 956, 715, which approved the "Program for the construction of ships and vessels in 250-1." the first ship of the Sovremenny project was laid down on March 1969, 1971 (1980 years old), launched on November 3, 1976, and accepted by the fleet on December 7, 18 (1978 years old!), And the 25-mm AU went to the GHI without the main weapon AK-1980, which was not yet ready, since it was officially adopted by the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR of November 11, 130. For that, the construction period for the following ships of the project (a total of 130 ships were built, including 1 for the Chinese Navy) was 1985 -21 years.

                  And taking into account the current pace of construction and the "dashing 90s", as well as the constant failure to meet the deadlines for the state defense order, we will see the first destroyer of the "Leader" project at best in 202..year.
                  1. 0
                    8 September 2014 18: 26
                    Well, it’s written in the same place, this is one of the options for the new destroyer. Yes, and no one expects it until 2020. In the meantime, they will modernize and maintain the old ships on the go, and build projects of the frigate-corvette classes. Then, the destroyer will arrive in time by the year 2022.
                    Or do you seriously believe that before this, the US and NATO will attack us? smile
                    And ordering ships of the main classes abroad is a dead end. Like GTU and other models of naval (and not only) equipment.
                    1. +1
                      8 September 2014 21: 36
                      Quote: quilted jacket
                      Or do you seriously believe that before this, the US and NATO will attack us?

                      no ... they will wait when we at sea become 10 times stronger ..... did you believe 3 years ago that native Ukraine would flare up with a red rooster ???
                      1. 0
                        8 September 2014 23: 01
                        What do you really believe in Russia's war with NATO?
                        Do not be afraid of a military conflict with them will not.
                      2. 0
                        9 September 2014 06: 02
                        There will be no direct. There will be geopolitical games and undeclared wars. As in Abkhazia, Syria or in New Russia. Mistrals are ships for such wars.
            2. 0
              8 September 2014 17: 09
              I agree with this that the ships themselves must be done, but the problem is not so much in the queens (although there are tones too), but in the workforce, it’s very difficult for workers to work, the whole training system in vocational schools and the like has been destroyed, and all this needs to be restored.
            3. +2
              8 September 2014 21: 30
              Quote: quilted jacket
              We need to make new ships ourselves, and not depend on some kind of France, etc.

              Where? .... Explain where and when? ... it is very important for all those present .... answer specifically - where to do it and when?
              1. -1
                8 September 2014 23: 15
                Will it reassure you?
                If the French partners refuse, we ourselves will create a similar ship - we have already received the bulk of the documentation for the Mistral. If the French refuse to complete the contract and return the money, then they will lose the right to these documents, said the USC representative. - If the French partners refuse to supply ships, then, while maintaining interest in the Navy, we will build them ourselves.
                According to industry representatives, the creation of a similar landing ship without using ready-made drawings will not be a serious problem for domestic shipbuilding.
                Designing will take about two years, there is nothing complicated at Mistral - this is a barge with a motor and a dock for helicopters and tanks. For military shipbuilders, this is a simple task. Nevsky Design Bureau (PKB) is able to build a new ship in a short time - this company has extensive experience in creating surface ships, including aircraft carriers. Building with an approved project takes about 18 months, the USC said.
                The chief designer of the Malachite Design Bureau, Radiy Shmakov, agreed that domestic shipbuilding has sufficient potential for a project like Mistral.
                Build such a ship on the shoulder of our engineers. St. Petersburg shipyards - the Baltic Shipyard, Severnaya Verf, Admiralty Shipyards could do this, the Nevskoye design bureau could design, ”says Radiy Shmakov.
                Earlier, representatives of the Baltic Shipyard (recall, he collects the stern of the Mistral) informed Izvestia that one of the goals of the international project is the development of foreign military technologies.
                http://izvestia.ru/news/567726

                Russia is able to build its own aircraft carrier if France refuses to supply the Mistrals. As Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said, answering a question from ITAR-TASS, the domestic vessel will be even better, "because it will have an ice class for operation in cold latitudes."
                At the same time, he stressed, "when we ordered these ships, then we did not have the technology of large-scale assembly, now we have it."
                http://pravdoryb.info/rogozin-esli-frantsiya-otkazhetsya-ot-postavok-mistraley-r

                ossiya-postroit-svoy-ship.html
                Well, have you all calmed down? Does this terrible question not bother you so much now?
                1. 0
                  8 September 2014 23: 54
                  Quote: quilted jacket
                  As Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said, answering a question from ITAR-TASS, the domestic vessel will be even better, "because it will have an ice class for operation in cold latitudes."
                  At the same time, he stressed, "when we ordered these ships, then we did not have the technology of large-scale assembly, now we have it."

                  I have the impression that the "Mistralnye" kickbacks passed by Rogozin. How will he start to drive something, does he really believe in it?
                  1. 0
                    9 September 2014 00: 01
                    Well, why do you think so? In my opinion, Rogozin is much more adequate and more patriotic in his opinion. Than Serdyukov.
                    In any case, all overseas junk does not buy, but tries to develop our industry.
                    And you don’t believe that Russian shipyards are able to build an analogue of Mistral? I think it’s quite possible for them not as fast as the French, but they will build it for sure.
                2. 0
                  9 September 2014 08: 47
                  Quote: quilted jacket
                  Well, have you all calmed down? Does this terrible question not bother you so much now?

                  Well, firstly, I wasn’t nervous, and this question doesn’t bother me ...... but the construction of such ships, our Homeland in the next 10 years, will not even be able to start .... they copied to me what is written on the fence. ... Rogozin promised to grow cucumbers on the moon .... and where are these cucumbers ?? ... well, we don’t have any idle shipyards or competent staff .... we don’t have this or that .... all the shipyards by the most I don’t want to be occupied by the state until 2020-2025 ... the construction is being carried out as it were softer ... by entire generations and at the exit a bagel ... or a hole ... where are the frigates? ... corvettes ?? ... landing ships ?. ..mugglers ?? ... times edchiki ?? ... ??? auxiliary vessels entered the unit with the time of 10 years, so you jacket, can lectures uryakalkam your screen shots spread ..... good luck ..
        2. 0
          8 September 2014 17: 05
          The Black Sea was already said to the Ministry of Defense. Mistral will not be there and it is not needed, and the zone of responsibility of the Northern Fleet of the Atlantic can be adapted to any conditions, but there they may well come in handy.
          1. 0
            8 September 2014 17: 09
            This. ready to rebuild the ship for service in difficult winter conditions (for example, for service in the SF) -impossible.
    2. 0
      8 September 2014 19: 41
      On the contrary, it is there that he is needed. Close to Georgia and what remains of Ukraine. The Black Sea Fleet will now be developed in the first place, so there will be protection.
      And the second is already in the Far East.
    3. 0
      9 September 2014 05: 58
      Quote: quilted jacket
      I think we need a maximum of one Mistral ship (mainly for obtaining new technologies and largely spent experience in building large warships)

      Well, what "lost experience" will we get from a ship built at the FRENCH shipyard?
  25. +1
    8 September 2014 13: 54
    In any case, we are in the black !!!
  26. +2
    8 September 2014 14: 00
    Quote: EgGor
    Crew: 160 people (20 officers) + 450 landing personnel (it is possible to take on board up to 900 people for a short time) and 150 people of staff.

    Total: 760 - long term plus 450 short term.

    And do not forget 16 helicopters fuel weapons to them + a hangar and if I am not mistaken there is a hospital for 70 people, it also takes up a lot of space.
  27. 0
    8 September 2014 14: 15
    Quote: enot73
    MOSCOW, September 5. / ITAR-TASS /. France will not be able to sell the Mistral helicopter carriers under construction for Russia to a third country if the contract is terminated, primarily because of the high cost of these ships. This point of view was expressed in an interview with the correspondent. ITAR-TASS Expert of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies Maxim Shapovalenko.
    “If the contract is terminated, the French will only get a headache: they will not be able to sell these ships to anyone,” the specialist believes. “There are no people willing to buy these expensive ships, and even with ice reinforcement of the hull, made specially for the Russian order. There were negotiations with South Africa, but ended in nothing

    I agree, but it's not just the price, this corral requires some kind of ambition and a powerful fleet from the country, and only Brazil and India are more suitable for this criterion, moreover, they stated that they will need UDC in the future, but I doubt that they will agree to "our" Mistrals will not want to spoil relations.
  28. You can build 3 Boreas for grandmas invested in Mistral, and there will still be about 700 000 000 ruble. Maybe take Boreas?
    1. +1
      8 September 2014 17: 15
      As considered for two ships, the Mistral 1,2 mln.Euro = 60mlr rub one borea 24-26 mlr rub.
    2. 0
      9 September 2014 06: 13
      Quote: Salavat EMERCOM
      , and there will still be about 700 million rubles

      To wash virtual boreas?
  29. 0
    8 September 2014 15: 01
    in the near future, confrontation due to events in Ukraine will end Naive .. this is for a long time ... you have to return the money ...
  30. +1
    8 September 2014 16: 35
    New project of the destroyer "Leader" (for some reason, the photo was not inserted in that message):
    1. 0
      8 September 2014 19: 51
      The destroyers will begin to build no earlier than they receive the marine version of the S-500, which (in the land version) will be ready in 2016.
      The aircraft carrier will not be designed before they make an electromagnetic catapult, when I can’t say it, I don’t know.
      Actually, the main problem with the construction of frigates and corvettes was that they did not have time to finalize the new weapons, so for the Indians they riveted quickly and on time (the weapons were already somewhat outdated), but theirs ... In general, it was sad.
      Now the weapons have been finished and I think for several years the construction of frigates and corvettes will proceed at a normal pace.
  31. +1
    8 September 2014 16: 53
    The coolest thing is that most likely these Mistrals were ordered mainly to protect our base in Sevastopol. And as if now the urgent need for them has disappeared.
  32. +2
    8 September 2014 16: 54
    [quote = Per se.] Dear Roman! Landing "over the horizon" is not a panacea for all amphibious assault forces, especially if it depends on the only ship in the fleet, which can also be drowned "over the horizon" with all its equipment and personnel. The Mistral is, in fact, more of a military transport than a warship. Perhaps there is fish for fishlessness and cancer, but it’s not a big deal if these troughs don’t get into our fleet. Finally, the BDK can land equipment and far from the coast, if not for the fools and traitors, the same BMP-3F, would be very useful to our marines. [Quote] Design features in comparison with the base BMP-3 give the BMP-3F the ability to move afloat with an excitement of 3 points, aimed shooting afloat with an excitement of up to 2 points, and water-jet propellers provide maneuvering and loading onto landing ships on their own from the water in waves.

    High-performance water drainage devices (1500 l / min) ensure the car is safely in the water for a long time, the range of fuel on water is at least 7 hours. The design of the BMP-ZF allows for towing the same product when operated on water, or moving in tow behind sea raid boats.

    [/ quote] The fleet needs to be strengthened, and universal helicopter carriers are needed, but, the main conclusion is, do not rely on the benevolence of the enemies when ordering equipment in a NATO member country.
    USA, France, UK, Netherlands, Japan, China, Korea, Australia, Spain, Ital
    I need it, Brazil, India, Germany are also interested, but we don’t need it, don’t carry nonsense, and the BMP-3F does not meet the standards of the Marine Corps. that's why they decided to develop a specialized infantry fighting vehicle.
  33. +1
    8 September 2014 17: 47
    Fucking French!
    Corrupt, timid and cowardly!
    And YES and NO - all at once ...
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. -3
    8 September 2014 20: 02
    I believe that these Mistral troughs of Russia are not needed better, instead of two Mistral, pay 163 million euros and build another Ash. If the French wreck the contract, there is definitely enough money for another ode to Ash.
    1. -2
      8 September 2014 20: 38
      grandmas still drove into this galosh. for the Navy, the vessel is dumb, but if you let it go like a ferry on the Crimean route, there will be more and more benefit what
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. 0
    8 September 2014 23: 44
    The French are bored, however.
  38. havbek76
    0
    9 September 2014 00: 45
    So the French want to get on the grandmother !!
  39. 0
    10 September 2014 22: 19
    Here, without much publicity, the military men of the Russian Navy or Defense Ministry need to prepare a motivated demarche. And specify the sanctions possible according to the contract. The 3-10 billion fork is a public profanation. In such contracts, the numbers and% are clearly prescribed. I hope that Serdyukov and Comp. then the contract was not "sold" for kickbacks smile
  40. 0
    15 September 2014 11: 49
    As Ragozin said, we already have the technology for which they bought the Mistral, so let them keep these pieces of iron and let them pay us a fine. Well, let the sailors return home, and then the local French trash protests you see about them in Ukraine.
  41. 0
    27 September 2014 00: 43
    Will they give us the Mistals or not, their reputation is still tarnished. I would like to look at that fool who the French will make such a large order.