Military Review

Foreign experts on the situation with the "Mistral"

92
Not so long ago, the next stage of testing the amphibious helicopter-carrying dock (DVKD) Vladivostok of the Mistral type, built at a French shipyard in the city of Saint-Nazaire, was completed. The second ship of the same type, Sevastopol, is currently being built by a French and Russian enterprise. While STX Europe employees are assembling various designs, European and US politicians are trying to resolve a dispute that has suddenly arisen around ships for Russia. Official Washington is demanding that Paris stop cooperating with Russia in the construction of two amphibious ships. The French leadership, in turn, does not yet know what to do in this situation.


Foreign experts on the situation with the "Mistral"
The bow section of the construction of the Sevastopol Far-Eastern Regional Directorate in the dry dock of the STX France shipyard in Saint-Nazaire (c) Leo Van Ginderen / defensenews.com


A few days ago, the famous resource DefenseNews.com published France Might Withhold 2nd Mistral Ship From Russia (“France may refuse Russia in the second Mistral-type ship”) by Pierre Tran. The author of this article gathered the opinions of several analysts and specialists. American and French experts talked about how they see the future of the Russian-French contract for the construction of two Mistral FCVDs.

The author of the publication on the portal DefenseNews.com notes that the French leadership is currently considering a proposal to refuse to transfer the second of the ordered ships to Russia. In connection with the Ukrainian crisis, the United States calls on its NATO allies to abandon military and military-technical cooperation with Russia. In this regard, the official Paris is forced to explore the prospects of the contract for the construction of two amphibious ships.

The article contains statements by Robbin Laird, analyst of consulting company ICSA, operating in the USA and France. Laird believes that the existing Russian-French contract affects the fundamental foundations of French policy and the entire NATO organization. The United States openly calls on France to relinquish its obligations under the existing contract, and Russia faces financial consequences and loss of confidence on the part of potential customers. Thus, the official Paris is between two fires and is forced to find a way out of such an awkward situation.

In accordance with the 2011 contract of the year, the French shipyard of the company STX Europe should build for Russia two MKDDKDDs with a total cost of over 1 billion euros. Two more ships of this type can be ordered later. R. Laird believes that in the case of the first of the ships of the series, which has already been built and is being tested, France "fell into the trap." The ship "Vladivostok" is fully paid and will soon be ready for transfer to the customer, scheduled for October.

In this regard, the current disputes can only go around the second ship, which is under construction. The bow and stern of the hull of the "Mistral" are ready. In June, the ship's feed will be sent from St. Petersburg to France, where all the units will be docked. Construction DVKD "Sevastopol", as noted by R. Laird, has not yet been fully paid. As a result, the French leadership has time to think and a “place to maneuver.” The second ship for Russia is scheduled to be transferred next year.

The Executive Director of the French Center for Strategic Studies and Prospects (Center d'Etude et Prospective Stratégique) Loic Tribo La Spier told the author of the publication on DefenseNews.com that he knows about certain Paris actions to find a way out of the current situation. Among other things, the option of reselling a ship to a third country is being considered. R. Laird confirms that France is trying to get rid of the existing problem. According to the American analyst, the French leadership can demonstrate its position.

At present, the President and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of France are talking about compliance with the terms of the contract and the continuation of all planned work. This can be considered as a basic action plan. However, there may be a backup plan, which implies the refusal to transfer the second MKDD-type DVKD. Laird notes that the situation with landing ships is a political issue. From an industrial or financial point of view, a contract for the construction of two ships and an option for two more is not vital for France. However, the failure of France to fulfill its obligations will have political consequences and will seriously affect relations with Russia.

If France decides not to hand over Sevastopol to Russia, a new question will be raised before its leadership: what to do with this ship? The French military department is experiencing serious financial problems, which is why the new landing craft is guaranteed not to be able to replenish the composition of the French naval forces. The only solution in this case will be the sale of the ship to any of the allies, such as the United States. As far as is known, Paris and Washington have not yet discussed the possibility of such a deal.

Another buyer of the ship, according to Laird, could be Brazil. At the beginning of the last decade, France sold Brazilian the fleet its aircraft carrier Foch, which now serves as San Paulo. An amphibious docking ship of the Mistral type may also be of interest to Brazil, as it will allow its navy to solve a number of new problems. However, the sale of Mistral to Brazil is only an assumption by R. Laird.

Of interest are the words of Joel Johnson, an analyst at Teal Group. France currently has the image of a reliable partner who carefully observes all the conditions of contracts with customers. However, Johnson warned the French leadership against rash actions. He believes that the refusal to fulfill obligations under the existing contract will damage the existing image of France. As an example of a deterioration in relations with potential customers, the analyst cited the United States and some countries in Latin America. After a series of scandals, the latter try not to cooperate with American manufacturers of military equipment and weapons.

The author of the article France Might Withhold 2nd Mistral Ship From Russia mentions a report by the German think tank SWP. According to the staff of this organization, buying a ship under construction in Europe could be a way out of this situation. For example, the German Navy is interested in receiving landing ships of this class. However, none of the European countries currently can not afford such large expenses.

While French politicians are looking for a way out, and analysts are trying to predict their decision, the shipbuilding company STX Europe continues to fulfill its contractual obligations. In early June in France, the training of Russian crews will begin, which will serve on new ships. About 400, people in the Russian Navy will first undergo technical training for which DCI is responsible, and then they will learn to control Mistral ships and their systems in practice.

The publication of the online publication DefenseNews.com is of great interest, since it contains the opinions of several foreign experts who follow the events around the ship building contract. From their statements it follows that abroad perfectly understand the complexity of the situation in which official Paris is located. On the one hand, President F. Hollande and his team are put under pressure by colleagues from Washington, demanding the use of sanctions against Russia, on the other - Moscow, reminding of the unpleasant consequences of such sanctions.

Understand this in France. If you believe foreign experts, then Paris is now actively studying the situation and trying to find a way out of it. What exactly the leaders of the Fifth Republic are going to undertake is a big question. The simplest solution to the problem from an economic and industrial point of view is the continuation of work, which, however, can lead to a deterioration in relations with the allies. Preserving good relations with them will lead to a serious break with Russia and loss of reputation in the eyes of third countries. It is not difficult to understand that Paris now faces an extremely difficult choice.

An interesting fact is that the transfer of the first amphibious assault ship of the “Mistral” type, built for Russia, is considered by foreign experts to be almost a fait accompli, and all their assumptions are made only in relation to the second. It should be recalled that the leadership of France not so long ago announced its plans for the first ship "Vladivostok". While all work will continue in accordance with the approved schedule, and the final decision on the fate of the ship will be made only in the autumn, before the planned date of transfer to the customer.

It seems that the current discussions on the sidelines of the French government relate to the first ship. Approximately 5-6 months remain until the planned transfer of Vladivostok, so the opportunities and risks should be analyzed. In this case, the decision on the first ship, despite the statements of foreign analysts, may affect further developments around the contract and future cooperation between Russia and France.

If France decides not to give up at least one of the built ships, experts suggest selling it to a third party. This offer allows you to get rid of unnecessary ship, without spending on its disposal. However, the authors of this proposal, given the limited financial capabilities of the French Ministry of Defense, forget about the military budgets of third countries. Far from all developed, let alone developing countries, can afford a landing craft worth more than 500 million euros. In addition, the negotiations and preparation for the signing of the contract of sale will take some time.

As we see, foreign experts see the complexity of the situation in which France has fallen. At the same time, both the situation itself and all possible ways out of it are complex and ambiguous.


Based on:
http://defensenews.com/article/20140523/DEFREG01/305230022/France-Might-Withhold-2nd-Mistral-Ship-From-Russia
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://defence-blog.com/
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  1. S-17
    S-17 27 May 2014 07: 56
    +31
    In the event of a refusal to supply money to the paddlers, is it enough to pay a fine, and attach a horde of unemployed?
    1. AlNick
      AlNick 27 May 2014 08: 11
      +23
      Return money am and do what you want with troughs wassat
      1. papik09
        papik09 27 May 2014 19: 31
        +3
        Quote: AlNick
        Return money

        BABLO AT MOTHERLAND !!!! negative
      2. bvi1965
        bvi1965 29 May 2014 12: 30
        0
        Quote: AlNick
        Return money am and do what you want with troughs wassat


        YES and don't give the other half. Let them build a new "ass" themselves. tongue
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 30 May 2014 05: 00
          0
          They will build a new "ass" quickly, but where are we going to do with ours?
    2. xenod55
      xenod55 27 May 2014 08: 30
      +25
      Let the French keep these two troughs for themselves, return the money and the fine back. In the future, they expect costs, and large ones, to support these troughs, which will slowly rot at the mooring wall. No one will buy them from the French, there is adaptation to special conditions. But anti-Russian zhurnalyugi do not count state money and scribble paper for Amerikosov’s bucks. What they will be ordered from across the ocean, they are yapping.
    3. edge
      edge 27 May 2014 09: 14
      +13
      Quote: S-17
      In the event of a refusal to supply money to the paddlers, is it enough to pay a fine, and attach a horde of unemployed?

      I’ll add - the contract was signed for the supply of two ships and the further construction of two more at Russian enterprises: transferring only one is already a breach of the contract .... The treasury will have to strain a lot to pay a penalty for the breakdown. Otherwise, the briks will be very careful when signing contracts in the future ....
      1. alauda1038
        alauda1038 28 May 2014 15: 40
        +2
        and this is a very large and promising arms market you’ll fool other doors in general, wherever you wedge
    4. Yuzver
      Yuzver 27 May 2014 10: 27
      +1
      Do you seriously think that they will return something? The West is united against Russia. No one will return anything to Russia, as he did not return before.
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 27 May 2014 14: 35
        +5
        Quote: Yuzver
        Do you seriously think that they will return something?

        If they still don’t return the money and do not pay the fine, then they’ll certainly put and bury their reputation in the grave, and those companies that were involved in the construction of these wonderful boats in the next election will clearly finance the opposition, so much so that the Hollande party is still years old 10 at least in the election does not win ....
      2. little man
        little man 27 May 2014 19: 59
        +1
        Yes, everything can be circumvented. The French sell it, for example, to the Brazilians. And who will forbid the Brazilians to resell us already?
  2. kind
    kind 27 May 2014 08: 05
    +20
    All the same, the paddlers were and remain prostitutes, in the 40s they surrendered to Germany, now the United States. He managed to contact us.
    1. edge
      edge 27 May 2014 09: 16
      +10
      Quote: Good
      All the same, the paddlers were and remain prostitutes, in the 40s they surrendered to Germany, now the United States

      you can’t argue against nature, well .... you can’t order it.
    2. ARS56
      ARS56 27 May 2014 16: 04
      0
      For Ponte Medvedev and unprofessionalism taburetkina pay us. Taburetkin was sent on an undeserved vacation, but how much longer can the prime minister’s disintegrator stand?
      1. Sergey Vl.
        Sergey Vl. 28 May 2014 03: 42
        +1
        Calmly, Dm. Anat. under supervision - will not jump out of a rut.
        1. papas-57
          papas-57 29 May 2014 20: 01
          0
          '' Calm down, Dm. Anat. under supervision - he will not jump out of the rut. '' And he was never in a rut. Runs next to the GDP, but from the side, not in a rut.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Juborg
      Juborg 28 May 2014 02: 19
      +1
      France and prostitution are one concept. We say France-mean, prostitute. We say a prostitute, France implies. History does not change and makes the same mistakes.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. jayich
      jayich 27 May 2014 08: 26
      0
      I don’t understand one thing, under the contract 3 and 4 ships were to be built at the Baltic Shipyard, so in principle it is possible to overturn the paddling pools altogether, after the transfer of "Sevastopol", construction will be cheaper here than in France.
      But then damn the problem on the stocks of the Baltic plant now LK-60 began to collect.
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 27 May 2014 08: 38
        +14
        Quote: jayich
        in principle, it is possible to overthrow frogs as well

        You can overturn, only in this case we will already pay them a forfeit. Here the whole circus is to put France in cancer anyway - they will put us both troughs - they will ruin relations with the USA, they will not deliver - they will return money to us plus forfeit and get a negative reputation. For nekuy, self-determination must be made, and not looking back at the uncle behind the Atlantic puddle.
        Selling to third countries is also questionable - we ordered boxes for ourselves in order to equip them with our own equipment, that is, we proceeded from considerations of expediency for our own needs. I doubt that anyone other than China can purchase and retrofit a ship of this class. But does China need it now? Moreover, in the light of recent events, China also has a reason to show the goat's face to our "friends". It would be the coolest option, when France would pay us in full for their stupidity, and even be left with an empty and unnecessary box in her arms. This would greatly help Mr. Hollande in realizing his place in this life and would add love to his compatriots and members of their families left without work.
        1. alauda1038
          alauda1038 28 May 2014 15: 45
          +2
          and in this industry, the bill goes for a couple of hundred thousand at once to remain without orders Hollande did not even understand how he set up people
      2. Juborg
        Juborg 28 May 2014 02: 26
        +6
        Do you find the same specialists? Well, those who will be built. For 20 years, the labor reserve has become impoverished. Now the Russians cannot be driven by a machine tool or a sledgehammer; he would have to sit in the office and spit out the window. But how many labor dynasties were ruined. The professional worker is now worth its weight in gold. The clerk in the office, gets more worker. Who will go, the answer is ........?!
  4. rugor
    rugor 27 May 2014 08: 38
    +16
    construction with us will be cheaper than in France.


    What fright is it cheaper? I work in heavy engineering in St. Petersburg. I communicate a lot with the Germans, including on the localization of components in Russia. If the price is 10% higher than in Germany, then this is a super-price, usually the difference is 40%, obviously not in our direction.

    Forget the myth that production in Russia is cheaper. Fees and whiter low costs (only for hard workers!) More than compensate for internal costs and a tremendous administrative apparatus.
    1. shuhartred
      shuhartred 27 May 2014 09: 03
      +7
      Quote: rugor
      Forget the myth that production in Russia is cheaper. Fees and whiter low costs (only for hard workers!) More than compensate for internal costs and a tremendous administrative apparatus.

      Primitive as you think. The money spent in Russia in Russia will remain and will return to the economy. And those who are given over the hill will leave meet. And there would be no foreign production in Russia if it is more expensive. Bourgeois denyuzhku know how to count.
      1. Metal bro
        Metal bro 27 May 2014 09: 22
        +1
        Well, go and explain it to specific companies that spend their money. It makes no difference to them whom to give, in their own country or another, if all the same the money leaves you.
        1. shuhartred
          shuhartred 27 May 2014 09: 39
          +6
          Quote: MetalBro
          Well, go and explain it to specific companies that spend their money. It makes no difference to them whom to give, in their own country or another, if all the same the money leaves you.

          What are we talking about now? About the state order or about something else? Yes, many firms place their orders abroad. But not because it’s cheaper there, but because we don’t produce it, or produce worse. Compare at least the prices of imported and domestic cars, tractors, cranes. I'm not talking about military equipment. I worked at a joint venture and almost all of our products (metal structures of varying degrees of complexity) were exported, and each time it was emphasized (by the leadership) that we did both faster and cheaper and better than theirs ( Norway), and no one complained about the salary
          1. Metal bro
            Metal bro 27 May 2014 13: 05
            +1
            whenever possible, state orders try to cut inside the country, because the money is not your own and it's easier to agree with your own) Well, in general, they like to inflate our prices on all kinds of junk. They spend their money wisely. And if abroad is better and better, they will spend their money there. Well, when there is no other way (for the defense, this is unacceptable of course, but where to go with the same electronics for example).
            Maybe I didn’t understand the comment, and we are talking about the same thing)
            1. shuhartred
              shuhartred 27 May 2014 13: 36
              +2
              Quote: MetalBro
              , and we are talking about the same thing)

              Maybe yes.
      2. rugor
        rugor 27 May 2014 13: 11
        +1
        That's right, they can count, so they don’t organize anything except for a screwdriver assembly. An exception is when GDP, when entering the Russian market, sets conditions for localization (before Siemens, Alstom, etc.)
        1. shuhartred
          shuhartred 27 May 2014 13: 35
          +2
          Quote: rugor
          That's right, they can count, so they don’t organize anything except for a screwdriver assembly. An exception is when GDP, when entering the Russian market, sets conditions for localization (before Siemens, Alstom, etc.)

          Oh well. Let's figure it out. I do not have an economic education, so answer who is in the subject. If the Volkswagen plant in Ryazan reaches a localization level of 80-100%, then: will it become unprofitable? cars will be more expensive than in Germany? or what?
          1. Steppenwolf
            Steppenwolf 28 May 2014 02: 40
            +1
            Well ... To begin with, I have some doubts about the 100% localization of these very Volkswagens in Germany itself: do not forget that even in the German automobile industry for 15-20 years, not engineers and technologists, but economists and marketers have been running the show. At least a large part of the electronic filling, I think, was made all the same in Southeast Asia, and not in Europe ... So if you should lean hard and bring the localization to 100% in Russia, then having the current situation, I think Skoda Octavia Kaluga assembly would certainly cost cheaper than the Volkswagen Phaeton, but more expensive than the Passat SS ...
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 30 May 2014 05: 18
              0
              So if we should keep up and bring localization to 100% in Russia, then having the current state of affairs, we will get not Skoda Octavia, but Moskvich 412.
              1. shuhartred
                shuhartred 3 June 2014 19: 20
                0
                Quote: Bayonet
                we get not Skoda Octavia, but Moskvich 412.

                Hmm ... I had one, IL-combi. Beast car. Sorry broke down completely. 1988 release.
          2. rugor
            rugor 28 May 2014 10: 18
            +1
            We will fly to the moon earlier than 80% of the localization will be! No one will build high-tech production in Russia, this requires high and lengthy investments.
            Theoretically, if you invest in modern technologies and equipment, it will be more profitable than behind the hill, if you invest of course.
    2. Hitrovan07
      Hitrovan07 27 May 2014 11: 09
      +2
      I believe my contribution to make and lack of seriality in the construction.
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet 30 May 2014 05: 10
      0
      And also the terms of construction. We will pick around 10 years.
  5. potap48a
    potap48a 27 May 2014 09: 00
    +1
    Well done Serdyuk !!!! No wonder he signed this contract. Now let the frogmen be tormented, henceforth they will be smarter !!!!!
    1. edge
      edge 27 May 2014 09: 20
      +3
      Quote: potap48
      Now let the frogmen be tormented, henceforth they will be smarter !!!!!

      May they not be smarter, while the ass is more important than the head.
  6. zoknyay82
    zoknyay82 27 May 2014 09: 17
    +8
    Partners clicked on the nose of amateurs to purchase weapons abroad. And rightly so! We must do everything ourselves, purchase only technologies and equipment, which we do not have yet. To buy weapons from a potential adversary is nonsense, they will certainly be crap at the most necessary moment.
    1. ARS56
      ARS56 27 May 2014 16: 14
      +1
      Suffice it to recall the "bookmarks" when the electronics are turned off at a crucial moment, as was the case with the French anti-ship missiles bought by Argentina and which did not work against the Anglo-Saxons in the conflict on the Malvinas (Folk-Land) Islands.
      1. avt
        avt 27 May 2014 21: 23
        +2
        Quote: ARS56
        as was the case with French anti-ship missiles, bought by Argentina and not working against the Anglo-Saxons in the conflict on the Malvinas (Folkland) islands.

        what Which ones ? The same 5 pieces that drowned the ships of the Angles? Or are you still talking about American bombs with broken fuses?
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 30 May 2014 05: 33
        0
        You tell these tales to the crews of the Sheffield and Atlantic Conveyor, which were sent to the bottom by the French Exocet anti-ship missiles.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. mark2
      mark2 27 May 2014 17: 48
      +4
      Purchase? Let's start buying, the USA will persuade the broken "partners" not to sell. You need to create your own. Why the heck do we need so many humanitarians with higher education and service workers? To revive the design staff and secondary specialized education and to make machines and equipment ourselves. And about cars. Until economists got into the engineering business, the machines did not break down! And if they broke, they were maintainable.
  7. muhomor
    muhomor 27 May 2014 09: 46
    0
    Yes, let them tear the contract! Our hard workers mastered the construction technology. And with the returned money, you can build a couple of frigate or destroyers.
    1. starley
      starley 27 May 2014 13: 38
      +3
      they didn’t pay attention: the number of blades on the pumps, the spokes in the rims - even in Russian products, and odd in imported ones. Correctly there should be an odd amount - standing waves and backward shocks in the structure are not formed. And everyone knows this, but they do an even amount. Therefore, they do an even thing because a drunken hand can divide the circle into equal shares, but with fractions it’s a problem.
      1. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 27 May 2014 21: 36
        +1
        Interesting remark. Really, did not pay attention.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Andriuha077
      Andriuha077 27 May 2014 13: 46
      +1
      "a couple of frigates or destroyers"

      Russia is not needed, - the president of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, the captain of 1 rank Konstantin Sivkov is sure.

      In any case, Russia will receive compensation. That is, the money that we paid will be returned to us. Plus, for the failure of the agreements, very serious penalties are provided, which will entirely fall on the French side.

      And with this money Russia will be able to build at least eight nuclear submarines. Or no less than six to eight first-class frigatesthat we are vital for operations in the far sea zone.
      Finally, this money would be enough to build four nuclear-powered strategic missile submarine cruisers of the Borey type of the 955 project. The cost of one Borea is slightly higher than the cost of Mistral - literally by 10%.
      1. oleg34
        oleg34 28 May 2014 22: 19
        +4
        Quote: Andriuha077
        Russia is not needed, - the president of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, the captain of 1 rank Konstantin Sivkov is sure.

        Are needed! The most necessary tool at the moment = to participate in Syrian expresses and TP operations
        Quote: Andriuha077
        And with this money, Russia will be able to build at least eight nuclear submarines

        And Russia does not want the moon from the sky?

        2 Mistral = $ 1,6 billion

        nuclear-powered icebreaker at level 885 ash or borea - $ 2 billion
        Quote: Andriuha077
        Or at least six to eight first-class frigates

        22350 pots - officially 0.5 billion without half the weapons
        Quote: Andriuha077
        The cost of one Borea is slightly more than the cost of Mistral - literally by 10%.

        can not be
  8. Valkh
    Valkh 27 May 2014 09: 55
    +1
    Do not give them feed until the third and fourth in Russia are built !!! tongue
    1. ARS56
      ARS56 27 May 2014 16: 21
      +4
      And we’ll remain with the poop that is useless to anyone, without paying for the poop, and even without troughs and compensations, as those to blame for the disruption of the transaction. The deal should be torn down by the French and return everything to us with a gain.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 May 2014 10: 00
    +2
    Clean children. This is a sharper, try to squeeze money back from the thimblers at the station. Nice people with honest eyes who "everyone saw that nobody took any money from anyone" will come right there. There will also be station police officers who will put you in the monkey house and put you "for identification." In general, the money was crying, some of them will be returned well, they will completely return it will not be understandable generosity. Such people only understand strength and arrogance. One hope for Le Penicha may help.
    1. katran666
      katran666 27 May 2014 10: 27
      +1
      I agree with you, dear. Russia will receive NOTHING in the event of a ban on the transfer of the Mistrals.
      I am writing specifically for the rejoicing NOTHING !!!
      How are you going to squeeze money from FRANCE if the impoverished Ukraine spits on paying for gas, although you could already turn the valve 200 times and transfer it to prepayment ... Will you go to the Basmanny court?
      1. Hitrovan07
        Hitrovan07 27 May 2014 11: 10
        +5
        The property of France, which includes the property of French companies. So take your own do not worry.
        1. alex86
          alex86 27 May 2014 13: 29
          0
          Quote: Hitrovan07
          French property

          This will mean the beginning of a chain reaction of mutual "requisitions", it will not end well, remember the French company "Noga", which spoiled our blood for many years - they imposed arrests on planes, on museum values. This is not an option, you need to either make the face a brick - like, we don't know anything, or it is suing, or (which is better for everyone) to agree on something. If you decide that the second "Mistral" is not needed, take the components for thermal imagers on the sly from the States. Or trips to Paris, I haven't been for a long time wink
          1. ARS56
            ARS56 27 May 2014 16: 26
            +1
            "Or vouchers to Paris, I haven't been for a long time"
            I was in Parisik. Bored there.
            Rest - so in the Crimea. In from where I haven’t been for a long time, and it’s more correct.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. alex86
          alex86 27 May 2014 13: 29
          0
          Quote: Hitrovan07
          French property

          This will mean the beginning of a chain reaction of mutual "requisitions", it will not end well, remember the French company "Noga", which spoiled our blood for many years - they imposed arrests on planes, on museum values. This is not an option, you need to either make the face a brick - like, we don't know anything, or it is suing, or (which is better for everyone) to agree on something. If you decide that the second "Mistral" is not needed, take the components for thermal imagers on the sly from the States. Or trips to Paris, I haven't been for a long time wink
          1. PLO
            PLO 27 May 2014 13: 56
            +1
            you did not understand.
            the beginning of the chain reaction will be the non-return of forfeits for the failure of the contract, and the seizure of property of French companies is a continuation of the reaction.
      2. starley
        starley 27 May 2014 12: 53
        +2
        even the elementary introduction of an internal ban on Russian tourists visiting French frogs can solve many problems
        1. Metal bro
          Metal bro 27 May 2014 15: 23
          -2
          why should ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation suffer?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Matthew
        Matthew 27 May 2014 16: 40
        +2
        Again. there are very tangible assets of French automakers in Russia. you can even swing the swing ...
    2. Matthew
      Matthew 27 May 2014 16: 38
      +1
      Yeah ... only the Renovskie activists, who in our house will be charged to the cop’s expense? (i.e., type of force majeure)
  10. SLX
    SLX 27 May 2014 10: 15
    +3
    It is easy to understand that Paris now faces an extremely difficult choice.


    After the EU elections on Sunday to the European Parliament, the choice for Paris has become even more difficult. The past elections will not be able (or will not be able to) change the EU policy, but they have seriously changed the political alignment in France and now the voice of the "National Front" Marie Le Pen will have to be reckoned with in an adult way, and even in long-term affairs. And her position on Russia is well known.

    Moreover, the introduction by the current French government of sanctions against Russia will not only seriously strengthen the position of the "National Front" in relation to Russia, but also the position of the NF on the issue of France's exit from the EU. And this is the collapse of the EU.

    In general, now, after the last elections, it can be said absolutely unequivocally that France is caught between a rock and a hard place with this contract. And for other EU countries, this situation will be a good lesson, because The positions of nationalists and right-wing radicals and other EU countries have also strengthened greatly, and the main slogan of the French SF "French policy for the French" is becoming more and more popular in EU countries (naturally, with national amendments), as well as the idea that the EU is unnecessary.
    1. yehat
      yehat 27 May 2014 11: 14
      +1
      France joined the EU, hoping that this organization will be European,
      and now the EU serves US interests, often to the detriment of itself.
      It is not surprising that Europeans are thinking about secession, and not just France.
      Scandinavian countries, Italy, possibly Scotland. A separate issue is Greece and Spain. So Brussels and Berlin should think hard about what steps are best to take so that the union does not fall apart. Hungarians and the Baltic states, whose economy the EU has reset, are also thinking.
    2. starley
      starley 27 May 2014 12: 44
      0
      the collapse of the EU is also an Amer’s goal, and le pen will hardly solve such a problem
    3. The comment was deleted.
  11. Takashi
    Takashi 27 May 2014 10: 22
    +4
    To be honest, I don't care what the French do about the Mistral. Judging by the metamorphoses of Europe, all ships will be completed and delivered on time according to the contract. And politicians will save their reputation and carry all kinds of ... nonsense ..

    I have another question. AS!? How could the French so quickly build and build almost 2 ships. !!! ??? Compared with the construction of our corvettes ?? A comparison of the complexity and amount of metal is clearly not in our direction.
    1. yehat
      yehat 27 May 2014 22: 23
      +2
      firstly, the second ship in the series is much easier to build than the first
      secondly, the shipyards in Saint-Nazaire were not idle and have the necessary equipment and an experienced team. And if something is missing - around a bunch of suppliers.
      Third, remember how strong unions are in France. There, the workers are really interested in working with money. So they work in 3 shifts.
      1. Takashi
        Takashi 28 May 2014 08: 41
        +1
        In Komsomolsk corvette since 2006 (or since 2008) bookmarks. still can’t finish building. 2000 tons versus 21 thousand Mistral
        1) It seems that this is not the first ship in the series.
        2) It seems that the shipyard was not idle, that they were trying to build something - civil. The equipment is, the collective is old, but it is.
        3) Unfortunately, there are NO trade unions in Russia. And those that exist can be called "companionable"

        Who will write about the Leningrad shipyard?
        1. Metal bro
          Metal bro 28 May 2014 20: 20
          +1
          it's all about a rotting geyrop
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 30 May 2014 05: 40
      +1
      They just know how to work and organize work, and not talk about difficulties.
  12. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 27 May 2014 10: 22
    +1
    Yes, let the French get out on their own, even though I would have finished building the ships in their place, transferred them to Russia, because reputation is more valuable than relations with the United States, well, what will the United States do to them for that? Hollande will have to explain to a crowd of unemployed citizens why, because of the interests of the mattress, they were deprived of their work. And so the first pair of ships will be built, but the second one can be safely "lost".
  13. X Y Z
    X Y Z 27 May 2014 10: 37
    +1
    No, don’t say that we don’t care! With the failure of the French, rich opportunities open up for us on the diplomatic and economic front. And all fines should be obtained even from the principle and an active propaganda campaign should be launched on the unreliability of France and the EU as a whole as a partner. I am only afraid of our propaganda and other bodies, as always ... asking for all the opportunities that have turned up.
    1. starley
      starley 27 May 2014 12: 39
      +1
      to solve momentary problems in bazaar ways - somehow too feminine
    2. The comment was deleted.
  14. tehnoluks
    tehnoluks 27 May 2014 10: 57
    0
    Offer Mistral one to Abramovich, the other to the Saudi sheikh. They love big yachts. And pizza from lyam for them is not money. This is the way out.
  15. Weniamin
    Weniamin 27 May 2014 10: 59
    +1
    Exactly. Spin American slimes.
  16. indeveral
    indeveral 27 May 2014 11: 12
    +4
    And it seems to me that both ships will be transferred to Russia on time. This is Oland with his government now getting out before the amers, but as the elections to the European Parliament showed, the next government will be under the command of LePen. This is just the term of the second ship. Yes, and the current government is completely not interested in disrupting the contract, and all of their statements are for the United States. Many write to us why the fuck these ships? It seems to me that they will not be superfluous. When they were ordered, yes, it was an unreasonable personal choice of Serdyukov and the company. But if they built, then abandoning the ocean-class ships, it seems to me wrong. Now all shipyards in Russia are busy with orders for military and civilian vessels. Moreover, as Gorshkov’s modernization has shown, Russia has lost much of its experience in building large military ships. And here we took part in the construction using foreign technologies, restored skills. Until these ships are put into operation, the fleet will receive modern corvettes, which are being built in Russia. As a result, we will be able to form two more multi-purpose groups, the basis of which will be these ships.
  17. Kcuf
    Kcuf 27 May 2014 11: 22
    +1
    am One must be a complete idiot to give up the Mistral. Especially at a time when they are so demanded by Russia ... Will we stand better? Ahaha, for a billion dollars, yes, in 5-10 years. Mistrals, whatever one may say, is a very technologically advanced technique with enormous capabilities. Put a couple of Poplars there, and you can keep many states under guns. I believe that the one who writes that this is a trough, is just a loser with a wit
  18. shark
    shark 27 May 2014 11: 34
    -1
    If he managed to get in touch with the Europoids, you have to demand everything from them, to the last penny. You won’t give them away, you can arrest any other ship or property.
    1. starley
      starley 27 May 2014 12: 34
      +3
      there is no need for such a sharp exacerbation of relations - an ally in the rear is dearer than any piece of iron and even more so "pieces of paper"
    2. The comment was deleted.
  19. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 27 May 2014 11: 37
    +1
    The United States openly calls on France to abandon its obligations under the existing contract, while Russia faces financial implications and loss of trust from potential customers.
    De Gaulle made France independent of NATO, Sarkozy brought it back. The United States has classically made a fork of France, as in the saying "You cannot be pardoned", now the French are frantically trying to put a comma in this phrase. hi
  20. e_krendel
    e_krendel 27 May 2014 12: 26
    +3
    You can’t sell, there’s nobody to buy, there’s nothing to keep / disassemble!
    Not Mistral, but some kind of Miracle Stone: you’ll go straight — from mattresses to pi ... you’ll receive it, you will go left — you will lose money, you will go right — you’ll drown in a swamp ... wassat
  21. Nikolav
    Nikolav 27 May 2014 12: 31
    0
    All this at the level of conversation will remain. They will fuse us their landing barges for our money. Yes, every year we will pay for those. service, spare parts, etc.
  22. starley
    starley 27 May 2014 12: 32
    +1
    Why Russia spoil relations with France because of all sorts of little things ??
    One of the "zero" options: to sell the mistrals to Serdyukov, as the ideologist of the venture.
  23. rudolff
    rudolff 27 May 2014 12: 33
    +2
    A way out could be an early (before fall) transfer of the first warbler to the Russian side. Let even with minor imperfections, one feature should still be completed and retrofitted with their equipment, weapons. At least another year of work. And on the second, you can revise the contract and quietly sign new conditions. Not to send stern to Saint-Nazaire, but the bow to the Baltic and the Baltic, but to dock and finish building them. But we wanted to build the third and fourth ones ourselves, why not partially start from the second. The fact is that they say correctly here, the French may not return the money spent, not to mention the penalties. Sanctions are recognized as force majeure and goodbye.
  24. Magic archer
    Magic archer 27 May 2014 12: 50
    +2
    I hope Mrs. Le Pen will be the next president of France! She will restore order and lead the country out of NATO! And Hollande is just a political prostitute who can only dance to the tune of Obama and Merkel!
    1. starley
      starley 27 May 2014 13: 41
      0
      ranks are given by people - because the olandam is green light.
      strong - they themselves take power, but have immeasurable problems.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  25. resh
    resh 27 May 2014 13: 21
    0
    I think that it will not come to a refusal of supplies. The reputation of a reliable partner is more important than momentary political wanderings.
  26. starley
    starley 27 May 2014 13: 43
    +1
    For half a year the situation with today's dynamics can change very much.
    Today's storms in a glass may seem like childish pranks. The course of affairs does not depend on us.
  27. Kuvabatake
    Kuvabatake 27 May 2014 14: 35
    -2
    The paddles, as always, will be taken into the mouth and set up. Banderlog they seem to learn ... laughing
  28. seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 27 May 2014 15: 10
    +1
    In June, the ship’s feed will be sent from St. Petersburg to France, where all units will be docked; these ships were generally ordered to slam the technology
  29. Alf
    Alf 27 May 2014 16: 00
    0
    As we see, foreign experts see the complexity of the situation in which France has fallen. At the same time, both the situation itself and all possible ways out of it are complex and ambiguous.

    I would like to save the euro and the ass. Although in the light of the latest laws of Hollande, the latter is not relevant.
  30. abc_alex
    abc_alex 27 May 2014 17: 04
    +2
    In my opinion, the authors of the theory of the sale of Mistral to someone else are somewhat cunning about the price. more than 500 million for our Mistral - this is the same price pelvis. ONLY the pelvis. After all, the French deliver the ship without weapons, and the Zenith control system. Our contract also contains neither helicopters nor landing delivery vehicles. We will do all this ourselves. But we can. Does anyone else know how? Does anyone have their own ZRAK and Kamov attack helicopters?

    Therefore, the price of Mistral for "someone third" will be far from 500 million and not even 600. One Ka-52 costs about 20 million dollars. This is in the land modification. And there are 16 of them on Mistral! The amount is already more than 800 million. And all these boats and barges?

    So you need to look for a buyer who has an "extra billion" at least. I wonder if there are many of them now?
  31. padded jacket
    padded jacket 27 May 2014 17: 58
    0
    Or at least six to eight first-class frigates, which we vitally need for operations in the far sea zone
    President of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, Captain 1st Rank Konstantin Sivkov.

    Unfortunately, it seems to me unlikely that it will be possible to build so many ships, because we get gas turbines for them from Ukraine, and replacing them quickly with others will not work without processing technical documentation, training specialists for the installation and maintenance of new equipment, and this is all the time.
    I think one of the reasons for the coup in Ukraine is the rearmament program of Russia.
  32. marder4
    marder4 27 May 2014 18: 21
    0
    "I think one of the reasons for the coup in Ukraine is the Russian rearmament program." - it is quite possible, because it was quite clearly stated - the time has come to refuse supplies from abroad ...
  33. kirpich
    kirpich 27 May 2014 20: 12
    0
    The United States openly calls on France to abandon its obligations under the existing contract, while Russia faces financial implications and loss of trust from potential customers.


    If France still decides not to give back at least one of the ships built, experts suggest selling it to a third party.



    ... This, then, is he a rupe, but me a nickel?
    Let him pay me a forfeit.
    I’m not out of envy, I’m so,
    For the sake of justice and more.
    (V.S. Vysotsky)
  34. da Vinci
    da Vinci 27 May 2014 20: 53
    0
    Send Serdyukov to negotiations - he has friends there!
  35. dFG
    dFG 27 May 2014 23: 18
    0
    Well, the situation ... in principle, if you already decided to buy two ships, then you had to link it in the contract and if the second grandma refused to put it on the table, or one didn’t go here .... or consider refusing the first with the non-delivery of the second and to leave this stuff to the paddlers in general, you need to look for ways to fuck the French
  36. CRASHBULLET
    CRASHBULLET 27 May 2014 23: 19
    0
    Here, as they say, it turns out, either you are their licking, or our partner!
  37. Mih
    Mih 27 May 2014 23: 45
    0
    tongue
    Another buyer of the ship, according to Laird, could be Brazil.
    In Brazil, there are a lot of monkeys. For Brazil, in order to transport monkeys, such ships are very necessary. In the Russian Federation there are no monkeys, as it is not sad, therefore, m. stop
  38. vgoga83
    vgoga83 28 May 2014 01: 21
    -1
    Russia has already done the most important thing. After all, "Mistral" was built at once at two shipyards, and this is the most important thing !!!! France is even in a more delicate position than it seems ... They may not hand over the ships to Russia, thereby making their economy a serious "setup" - to return the money, pay a fine fine, destroying their economy, and so on. And now the most interesting thing ... Ask yourself a question: Why did Russia order these ships from France ???? Because she herself did not know how to build ships of this class. And today France has taught Russia to build "Mistrals", provided technology, trained the crew))) Now the French are beginning to realize that they have got lost somewhere))) http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/202/eybh901 .jpg
  39. vfck
    vfck 28 May 2014 06: 49
    0
    Gani loot yes + interest, and dissolve the working class, and not secondly Ukraine will be slow :) tongue yes
  40. goose
    goose 28 May 2014 13: 06
    +1
    Quote: mark2
    Purchase? Let's start buying, the USA will persuade the broken "partners" not to sell. You need to create your own. Why the heck do we need so many humanitarians with higher education and service workers? To revive the design staff and secondary specialized education and to make machines and equipment ourselves. And about cars. Until economists got into the engineering business, the machines did not break down! And if they broke, they were maintainable.

    As accountants and humanities, and not technocrats, rule the ball, everything technical and scientific will be in the background. This is clearly seen in life. The mentality does not allow the chief engineer to pay an equal salary to the chief accountant, or take it higher by the financial director or development director.
  41. RAFAL
    RAFAL 8 July 2014 18: 08
    0
    Many comments contain insulting expressions addressed to France and the French, paddles and prostitutes and other insults. It's not good, because we don’t call them that way in the eye, they are well aware of this attitude towards them and they also understand that this attitude is true to them. And what kind of allies do you want to find in Europe, such things just help the same Americans. And the French, certain comrades from all kinds of special departments, also read everything about this deal, and this site is one of the largest thematic sites in Russia, so you need to speak more correctly.