Military Review

Experimental machine "Krymsk"

73



All modern domestic armored vehicles equipped with internal combustion engines and transmissions of various types. To further enhance the performance of military equipment, it is proposed to use new technical solutions. One of the most promising offers is the so-called. hybrid powertrain and electric transmission. On equipment equipped with similar systems, the internal combustion engine must interact with the generator that generates energy for electric motors. The proposed systems allow for effective control of the power plant, and also does not impose serious restrictions on the layout of the equipment. However, due to the complexity and high cost, promising power plants and transmission systems have not yet been used on domestic armored vehicles.

In the summer of last year, it became known that Russian enterprises conducted research work on the Krymsk topic. The goal of the work carried out by the Military Industrial Company was to create an experimental armored vehicle equipped with a hybrid power plant and an electric transmission. The developers of the Krymsk machine took the armored hull and the undercarriage of the BTR-90 Rostok armored personnel carrier as a base. The hull and chassis were modified as necessary and equipped with a number of new equipment. Tests of the experimental machine showed high prospects for the solutions applied.

As a basis for the hybrid power plant of the Krymsk machine, the YMZ-650.10 diesel engine was manufactured by the Yaroslavl plant Avtodiesel with the power of HP 360. In order to ensure optimal operation of the power plant as a whole, the engine power was artificially limited. The engine is directly connected to the inductor valve generator. The controlled electromagnetic generator is equipped with a so-called. field winding, which facilitates the coordination of the generator and diesel engine. This allows you to optimize the joint operation of the units, as well as reduces the wear of the diesel. The generator is equipped with a built-in rotor position sensor, which allows it to be used as an electric motor. In this mode, the generator can perform the functions of a diesel engine starter. The generator is connected to a power storage unit. This unit consists of several electrochemical capacitors manufactured by JSC "Elton".

The main element of the electric transmission, created in the course of the Krymsk project, is a distributed microprocessor control system. This element of the experimental transmission was designed and manufactured by LLC NPF "Vector". The control system is designed to monitor the operation of the traction motors. It directly controls the torque of each of the eight traction motors. This allows not only to effectively manage the machine, but also at the program level to implement a number of important functions: ABS, CBE, control of exchange rate stability and speed. The last two functions are carried out with the help of simultaneous or differentiated changes in the torque of the engines.

The generator, the control system and the engines are connected with power converters of electricity, created and produced by OOO NPP "Cycle +". All eight wheels of the experimental machine "Krymsk" are equipped with traction motors. Induction valve motors with excitation winding and a built-in planetary gearbox were created by GOU VPO "MEI (TU)". It should be noted that previously the most suitable for use as a traction on the technique with electric transmission was considered to be a collector motor of sequential excitation. The emergence of a new control system and power converters has significantly improved the characteristics of valve inductor engines.

Electric transmission, created in the course of the project "Krymsk", has a relatively simple principle of operation. A diesel engine drives an electric generator and it produces an alternating current that passes through special equipment and is converted to a constant one. Direct current is supplied to power converters directly connected to traction motors. In addition, some of the energy is transferred to the drive. According to the commands of the distributed microprocessor control system, the power converters change the operating modes of the electric motors.

An important element of the new hybrid power plant is the power storage unit. During acceleration, this element of the system works to give energy away and thereby "helps" the rest of the units. With a decrease in the speed of the machine, the braking energy is recovered into the electric one and fed to the drive. If necessary, the experimental machine "Krymsk" or equipment based on it can move without using a diesel engine, due to the energy stored in the storage unit. While the power reserve in this mode is limited, but further progress in the field of batteries will increase it several times.

Experimental vehicle "Krymsk" was assembled on the basis of an armored personnel carrier BTR-90. Such a base, among other things, made it possible to compare the characteristics of a car with an internal combustion engine and a similar model with a hybrid powerplant and electric transmission. Tests have shown that the 22-ton experimental vehicle on the highway can accelerate to 97 km / h. Up to speed 80 km / h, the car accelerated in 33 seconds. Thus, the maximum speed of the Krymsk car can be compared with the base BTR-90, but it surpasses it in overclocking characteristics. It should be borne in mind that the armored personnel carrier is equipped with an 510 hp engine, and the power of the Krymsk diesel engine is only 360 hp. Probably, the difference in engine power caused the Krymsk superiority in power reserve. When driving at a speed of 40 km / h, the machine with electric transmission is able to overcome at a single fueling up to 940 km, i.e. one and a half times more than the BTR-90.

Despite the relatively low engine power, the experimental sample coped with all the tests. The Krymsk machine successfully overcame a ditch with a width of 2 meters, a half-meter wall and a rise in 30 °. During the tests, an experimental vehicle towed a BTR-80 serial armored personnel carrier. When driving on a dirt road, "Krymsk" was able to pull an armored personnel carrier at a speed of 48 km / h. In addition, the car with such a "trailer" managed to overcome the rise with a slope 15 °.

All these figures perfectly show the possibilities of promising technology with a hybrid power plant and electric transmission. The effectiveness of the microprocessor control system says the turning radius of the machine. During the tests, by rotating the wheels in different directions, we managed to reduce this parameter to the 3,8 meter. In other words, the Krymsk machine is able to turn around on the spot.

According to some reports, the use of the original power plant allowed us to optimize the layout of the internal volume of the hull. Thanks to the release of volumes previously occupied by the elements of the power plant or transmission, it is possible to increase the amount of payload transported.

The goal of the Krymsk project was to create a new power plant and transmission for armored vehicles, as well as to test these systems in practice. Tests of the only experimental prototype ended, apparently in the summer of last year. In the future, the emergence of new technology, created with the existing experience. In addition, it cannot be ruled out that in the distant future full-fledged military equipment will be created on the basis of a hybrid powerplant and electric transmission. Tests of the Krymsk machine clearly showed what advantages the use of such systems would give.

However, it is too early to talk about the future of such technology. The first and last information about the Krymsk project appeared in July last year. Since then, no new messages have been received. The further fate of the project and its current state is unknown. It is likely that the Krymsk project itself performed the tasks assigned to it and closed it as unnecessary, and the developments on it will be used in the following works.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rosinform.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/


Author:
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. serega.fedotov
    serega.fedotov 14 May 2014 08: 59
    +7
    Wash the unnecessary complication of technology! A military machine needs to be repaired with a crowbar and obscenities, in any place. Although for army "long lengths" it can be of limited use, I saw the design of the drive on the rear axles of a long length, so far under the impression, there is such a pile!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. schizophrenic
      schizophrenic 14 May 2014 09: 45
      +8
      According to some reports, the use of the original power plant made it possible to optimize the layout of the internal volumes of the hull. Thanks to the release of volumes previously occupied by the elements of the power plant or transmission, it is possible to increase the amount of payload carried.

      We are talking about experimental machines, and crowbar for some breakdowns may not help. From the point of view of service, there are advantages.
    3. xenod55
      xenod55 14 May 2014 12: 09
      +6
      And you didn’t have any associations:
      1. The beginning of development - last year, just last year, articles began to appear on the possibility of the return of Crimea to Russia.
      2. name - Krymsk and Crimea, well, etc.
      And further: "The further fate of the project and its current state are unknown. It is likely that the project" Krymsk "itself has completed !!! the tasks assigned to it and is closed.
      It remains to bring to mind the project "UKRAINE".
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 14 May 2014 13: 15
        +6
        Experimental machine "Krymsk"

        there was such an article already posted on VO, in November 2013 of the year ....

        but the topic is really very relevant, a hybrid option, the engine only reduces fuel consumption, ....
        the entire suspension remains the same .. with a lot of rubbing parts, which significantly reduces the efficiency of the engine ...

        Now, if the electric motor is located in the hub of each wheel, then the gain in fuel and in increased internal volume will be substantial !!!!
        "modular tactical platform, SEP" - Hagglunds Alligator 6x6 ".... SEP has an electric transmission? the total power of two diesel generators is 100 kilowatts ...


        project "Umka" Belarus, 490 hp engine and an electric generator, in each of the eight wheels it is proposed to connect a separate electric motor ...
        1. mirag2
          mirag2 15 May 2014 19: 19
          0
          Well, Belarusians with incredible MAZ have huge experience in this sector.
      2. schizophrenic
        schizophrenic 14 May 2014 14: 56
        +2
        Quote: xenod55
        You have no associations

        Yes there is, Mistral Sevastopol. In general, if we take all the coincidences, then the possible start of operations Ukraine began roughly in 2008. So the mattresses and NATO got very well.
    4. svp67
      svp67 14 May 2014 13: 09
      +5
      Quote: serega.fedotov
      Wash the unnecessary complication of technology! A military machine needs to be repaired with a crowbar and obscenities, in any place. Although for army "long lengths" it can be of limited use, I saw the design of the drive on the rear axles of a long length, so far under the impression, there is such a pile!

      By and large, the proposed design is the TOP of simplicity, in solving the issue - ON THE DRIVE TO ALL WHEELS, so here you are wrong. Here the question is different, that many issues will have to be changed, ranging from technical ones - strengthening of repair departments by "electricians" and an increase in the general culture of technical support, and up to changes in the training of drivers of these devices ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Turik
        Turik 14 May 2014 16: 51
        0
        Well poodle! What for the car should have been called?

        When will she drown?
    5. i80186
      i80186 14 May 2014 19: 28
      +4
      Quote: serega.fedotov
      Wash the unnecessary complication of technology! A military machine needs to be repaired with a crowbar and obscenities, in any place. Although for army "long lengths" it can be of limited use, I saw the design of the drive on the rear axles of a long length, so far under the impression, there is such a pile!

      In fact, there is much more electronics in the tank, its repair is block - took a new block, threw the old one forward. Mechanics, which they’re constantly repairing, well, all kinds of clutches that are always on, boxes, etc. no. It will just be easier to repair. Every schoolchild will change the Winchester in the computer, but it’s unlikely that the speed box on an armored personnel carrier will transfer power from a 510 strong engine. smile
    6. go
      go 15 May 2014 00: 25
      +5
      Quote: serega.fedotov
      Wash the unnecessary complication of technology! A military machine needs to be repaired with a crowbar and obscenities, in any place. Although for army "long lengths" it can be of limited use, I saw the design of the drive on the rear axles of a long length, so far under the impression, there is such a pile!


      Try to fix the helicopter with crowbar and obscene material. If you talk like that, then in general there is nothing better than cavalry. The world goes forward and technology with it. If you do not do this, you can find yourself in the Stone Age in comparison with others. The issue of repair is a matter of staff qualifications. An electric motor, even with a control system, is even simpler than a modern one. diesel, you just need to know how it works.
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 15 May 2014 19: 22
        0
        Well, such people say, why does a soldier need a collimator on an automatic machine?
        This is called "retrograde" - roughly speaking.
    7. Fenia04
      Fenia04 15 May 2014 16: 16
      0
      So this is a prototype. Everything will be finished gradually.
    8. Civil
      Civil 18 May 2014 17: 09
      0
      An old article, already discussed and watched the video ... the purpose of hybridity is unclear ..
  2. Free wind
    Free wind 14 May 2014 09: 09
    -7
    machines of this design have huge disadvantages. but there are no pluses. A huge minus is the huge cost of such a design. against conventional transmissions, efficiency is very low. I honestly do not understand what guided the designers creating such a machine. Can observe the environment during the battle. I hope this was created .. product. at the expense of the plant and at the expense of the management of the plant. and not at the expense of the state budget.
    1. tchoni
      tchoni 14 May 2014 09: 58
      +9
      Quote: Free Wind
      machines of this design have huge disadvantages. but there are no pluses.

      Plus very big - ease of management. it can be reduced to the steering wheel and throttle. Increased diesel resource, increased mileage at a single gas station due to the rational distribution of energy.
      Quote: Free Wind
      A huge minus is the huge cost of such a design. against conventional transmissions, efficiency is very low

      Regarding complexity and cost - with what to compare: with a manual transmission without a distributor and synchronizers - then yes it is, but if you compare it with a modern automatic transmission + razdatka + locks + ABS + 4 bridges with reducers - it’s also the same.
      Regarding the efficiency, the same does not quite agree - if just the engine-clutch-cardan-axle (one) and the hybrid drive has the efficiency "non in vagina non in ruta kagorta" And if we compare the efficiency of the engine-clutch-gearbox-razdatka-axle system (4) -drive I think that everything is very comparable. And if you also introduce some kind of variator-torque converter between the engine and the gearbox - your darkness.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 14 May 2014 14: 22
        +4
        Quote: tchoni
        Increased diesel resource, increased mileage at one gas station due to rational energy distribution

        Yes, as an experimental machine, very interesting !!!!

        tchoni about yesterday’s topic on the unification of the fleet of armored vehicles (((((

        now an armored personnel carrier, or rather a "modular combat wheeled platform", with the installation of various weapons and equipment .....

        and that would be a deputy ... for tech ... not to hang himself, was found (from my point GOLD DECISION) small GPV firm !!!!!
        they created, on a single base, a whole fleet of wheeled vehicles, with unification of units and assemblies, on 90% !!!!!!
        only on the version of the armored car ... 4x4, Caterpillar 250 l / s engine, and the corresponding automatic transmission “Allison .....
        in other versions, 6x6,8x8,10x10 Caterpillar 500 l / c ...
        GPV ((General Purpose Vehicles))))


        1. tchoni
          tchoni 14 May 2014 18: 52
          +2
          Yes, I read about them. Very interesting approach. By the way, something similar is implemented in the KAMAZ line of machines, although the unification there is less than 90%, but it is still nice.
      2. pv1005
        pv1005 14 May 2014 16: 52
        +2
        All controls are reduced to the steering wheel and gas, but what will slow down the respected?
    2. svp67
      svp67 14 May 2014 13: 54
      +6
      Quote: Free Wind
      machines of this design have huge disadvantages. but especially there are no pluses
      Are you sure? And you look at the design of an ALL-WHEEL-DRIVE car on a mechanical transmission and exactly the same on an electric one. When one of the mechanical wheels is lost, it actually stops "pulling" the wheel from the opposite side, that is, the traction of TWO wheels is lost, this does not happen with the electric transmission ...
    3. 17085
      17085 14 May 2014 14: 14
      +12
      Quote: Free Wind
      machines of this design have huge disadvantages. but there are no pluses. A huge minus is the huge cost of such a design. against conventional transmissions, efficiency is very low. I honestly do not understand what guided the designers creating such a machine. Can observe the environment during the battle. I hope this was created .. product. at the expense of the plant and at the expense of the management of the plant. and not at the expense of the state budget.


      Of course, a combat bike, that's what the Russian Army needs to be given ... It comes out of your words. All your "cons" are invented. From price to efficiency.
      http://hw4.ru/reviews-hybrid-car
      Link to the first thing that fell in the request sheet.
      This car is the future. The most important plus is that even a gas tank, even a nuclear reactor, can be an electric generator. The second - a free layout, to extend the wire - this is not to lay the shaft. For pneumatics and hydraulics do not need a network of tubes, put the compressor directly on the consumer. Etc. etc. Think for yourself ... And our designers and engineers with customers from the Moscow Region do not need to pick up how much in vain.
    4. go
      go 15 May 2014 00: 34
      +5
      Quote: Free Wind
      machines of this design have huge disadvantages. but there are no pluses. A huge minus is the huge cost of such a design. against conventional transmissions, efficiency is very low. I honestly do not understand what guided the designers creating such a machine. Can observe the environment during the battle. I hope this was created .. product. at the expense of the plant and at the expense of the management of the plant. and not at the expense of the state budget.


      Unspoken and incompetent. Read about the efficiency of the electric motor and ICE, think about recovery, then approve. Without calculation, I can say that the efficiency of such a system will be one and a half times higher, where do you think the power reserve appeared?

      I’ll write about the benefits below separately.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. go
      go 15 May 2014 01: 42
      +1
      Free Wind, I read your comments below, I take it back "incompetently" (I can't edit the comment), but they didn't take into account a lot of efficiency.
  3. qwert
    qwert 14 May 2014 09: 45
    -2
    A bunch of motor-generator-electric motors twice tried to implement. On Ferdinand and on Is-6. Both there and there has been an increase in weight, complexity and cost growth.
    Although blondes for cars-quite a good option.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 14 May 2014 12: 32
      +2
      Quote: qwert
      A bunch of motor-generator-electric motors twice tried to implement. On Ferdinand and on Is-6. Both there and there has been an increase in weight, complexity and cost growth.

      They forgot the mouse!
    2. luiswoo
      luiswoo 14 May 2014 14: 41
      +8
      Quote: qwert
      A bunch of motor-generator-electric motors twice tried to implement. On Ferdinand and on Is-6. Both there and there has been an increase in weight, complexity and cost growth.
      Although for blonde cars- quite a good option.


      Machine for blondes in the natural habitat.
      I don’t know how for the APCs, but for ICBM tractors, a hybrid transmission is already an option, very large mechanical losses in a classic with so many axles.
    3. max702
      max702 14 May 2014 15: 03
      +7
      Yeah, but over the years, nothing has changed in electrics, and the relays are the same, and the batteries have not changed since the 40s of the last century, and we still clean our guns with bricks ..
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 14 May 2014 19: 26
        +4
        Quote: max702
        of the last century have not changed, and guns are still cleaned with bricks ..

        if not pe ... the humpbacked and collapse of the USSR, have not been cleaned for a long time !!!!!
        MAZ (MZKT) -7907 transporter, with the wheel formula 24x24 ....
        with a carrying capacity of 150 tons ... a tank gas turbine engine with an output of 1200 l / s was installed on it, rotating an alternating current generator (((
        electric transmission with 24 air-oil cooled motor wheels mounted on the frame and setting each wheel in motion .....
        MAZ-7907

    4. e_krendel
      e_krendel 14 May 2014 17: 31
      +4
      Well, the hardware base (both power and control) has since improved somewhat ...
  4. Isum
    Isum 14 May 2014 09: 52
    +4
    One of the advantages I can name is the ability to overcome a certain area with the engine turned off due to the energy stored in the batteries, i.e. silently !!!! An armored personnel carrier with such a function for special troops is clearly not superfluous. Also on this platform, due to the presence of a powerful electric generator, it is possible to put energy-intensive equipment such as air defense systems, electronic warfare, etc. Yes, the car is expensive compared to peers, but for certain tasks a small amount would not hurt.
    1. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 20 May 2017 20: 04
      +1
      all the garbage, there you can put the electromagnetic KAZ and the electromagnetic trawl complex, which due to emi radiation will burn out all the electronics, and in some places will make electromagnetic interference in the wiring and lead to premature detonation. One trouble, the Krymsk implementers have either reached a dead end or will soon come because of the generator, chose the wrong conceptual and technical model ... recourse
  5. Legate
    Legate 14 May 2014 09: 57
    0
    similar to the Belarusian "Umka"
  6. Crang
    Crang 14 May 2014 09: 58
    +1
    It is from such a machine that it is necessary to create a domestic wheeled tank similar to the South African "Ruikat". On top of this machine, you need to install a turret with a 125mm tank gun from the amphibious Stprut-D tank and you're done.
  7. Vladimir 23rus
    Vladimir 23rus 14 May 2014 10: 06
    +1
    This is the fashion now. But why is it incomprehensible to us! Okay, the European states of America they have nothing to refuel.
  8. Sensey
    Sensey 14 May 2014 10: 30
    +9
    And why did you decide that reliability is low and expensive? in fact, in the electric motor, in principle, there’s nothing to break ... well, the weakest link is the mechanical transmission between the generator and the engine.
    Diesel locomotives and trolleybuses run, they are also repaired by crowbar and sledgehammer ...
    and as far as efficiency is concerned, as far as I know it is the highest for electric motors) well, I'm not sure about the price.
    1. Crang
      Crang 14 May 2014 10: 33
      -1
      The only thing they fear water and mud. That, from which you yourself understand the military machine does not escape.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 14 May 2014 10: 54
        -2
        and electric motors are afraid of stopping; you need a lock that resets the power input (at the most inopportune moment! This is like transferring torque from a skidding wheel to a clinging one until the bridge burrows completely)
        1. Locksmith
          Locksmith 14 May 2014 13: 40
          +9
          Quote: ramsi
          more electric motors are afraid of stopping

          There is no need to invent fables, there are brushless motors, of the type used now in modeling, nothing is easier how to switch such a motor to generator mode and instead of heating the brake pads = charge the batteries / supercapes, and then applying an antiphase impulse to brake the rotor, because due to the fact that the motor turns the wheels through the planetary gear, the braking torque will be very decent. A motor, for example, a model of a helicopter with a power supply of 45 volts has a power of about 5-11 kW, at a speed of 22000 rpm, while weighing ..550 grams and the size of a fist, efficiency such a motor is about 95%, the slower ones will have larger dimensions and lower rpm, but also more "oak" in the good sense of the word wink
          In case of an accident, the engine is much easier to turn off than the mechanics, but about "afraid of water" - throw a glass of water into the air of a running diesel engine - the scale of the accident will unpleasantly amaze you smile , the electrician will still "hiss" but work until the electrolysis corrodes the conductors, one unpleasant modern high-voltage motors, it may be unpleasant if you get in the wrong place, but there are enough dangerous devices in military equipment, you don't get used to it.
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 14 May 2014 15: 10
            -1
            I am not concerned at all with the braking process, but with all-terrain properties when there is a risk of jamming of the wheel. Windings in a brushless motor can also burn out. If the regulator switches the phases of the windings depending on the position of the rotor, then when the rotor stops, the voltage from the windings must be removed, and at high power, it must be removed in advance. This will be perceived as a lack of power.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 14 May 2014 19: 47
              +2
              Quote: ramsi
              and all-terrain properties with a risk of jamming of the wheel. Windings in a brushless motor can also burn out.

              hybrid drive, on the prototype GDLS AHED 8 x 8 (((

              project of General Dynamics, the developer of the permanent magnet electric drive Magnet-Motor GmbH ..... ramsi you cut, not some windings that can burn out !!!!!

              200 kW diesel generator power, 200 battery power k / W, power of one gearless 50 motor wheel k / W ....

              1. ramsi
                ramsi 14 May 2014 20: 11
                0
                Quote: cosmos111
                project of General Dynamics, the developer of the permanent magnet electric drive Magnet-Motor GmbH ..... ramsi you cut, not some windings that can burn out !!!!!

                permanent magnets can be either in the stator or in the rotor (in the stator they are larger and there will be more power), respectively, the windings are in the partner
                1. cosmos111
                  cosmos111 14 May 2014 21: 24
                  +1
                  Quote: ramsi
                  oh winding - in a partner

                  Yes there is....
                  in Germany Firm "Magnet motor" and firm MAN, in I984 they developed a special machine 8x8 (((
                  electric motors are installed in the first, in wheel hubs ...
            2. go
              go 15 May 2014 00: 58
              +2
              Quote: ramsi
              I am not concerned at all with the braking process, but with all-terrain properties when there is a risk of jamming of the wheel. Windings in a brushless motor can also burn out. If the regulator switches the phases of the windings depending on the position of the rotor, then when the rotor stops, the voltage from the windings must be removed, and at high power, it must be removed in advance. This will be perceived as a lack of power.


              There are about 20 (this is just what I can remember) various electric motors and generators, and many different control modes for them. To your question about the wheel I want to ask, doesn’t it seem to you that an electric drill works in much more complicated modes?

              There are also electric motors and generators, even a megawatt class, with permanent magnets. There are no windings on the stator, as well as excitation windings. They have one problem - the cost, because raw materials not very good. there are many in developed countries, which is not a problem for Russia.
              1. ramsi
                ramsi 15 May 2014 06: 00
                -1
                a permanent magnet can in no way be equal to an electromagnet - that means dimensions; how to control the magnetic field in the rotor-stator system only with permanent magnets I can not even imagine
                1. go
                  go 15 May 2014 21: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: ramsi
                  a permanent magnet can in no way be equal to an electromagnet - that means dimensions; how to control the magnetic field in the rotor-stator system only with permanent magnets I can not even imagine


                  Yes, a motor or generator to the post. magnets cannot equal the electric motor, because it is much more efficient and smaller :) For control, the rotor winding remains. It has one drawback - a lot of rare earth metals, which are currently mined on a large scale only in China and Australia, i.e. cost, which as said for Russia should not be a problem. And this is also what over time fasting. magnets can gradually lose their properties, but it’s for decades, which doesn’t matter for a car.
                  To the post. magnets are already making generators for power plants.
          2. max702
            max702 14 May 2014 15: 33
            +8
            I fully support you! The people are categorically unaware of foreign electric motors, generators and control electronics, everyone is shouting about some kind of mythical unreliability, that is complete nonsense! Look at the electric cars at the warehouse terminals they are used almost around the clock and the runs / moto hours there are such that they didn’t dream of military equipment and in fantastic dreams. If you make from normal materials and with the right workmanship and engineering, then the electric devices are practically eternal and not killed, yes and service is by no means high-tech. I would like to notice such a nuance on the BTR 70 there were two engines (supposedly for reliability, in fact, due to low power), but there was a terrible hemorrhagic with their synchronous operation, but in the case of a diesel engine there is no such drawback, we will make more than one diesel engine for 300-500ls, and two, three or 4 smaller power and size, we get 2,3,4 times reliability, in addition, it can be placed in different places of the case solving the problem of single destruction of remote controls, and just depending on the tasks of the chassis, I wrote earlier that there is a huge scope for unifications, the same seats, connection and control systems, all this is the same! The difference is only in the number of diesel engines, one truck 20t two three, BMP BTR three, four .. Now, to the issue of price, since we have the same diesel engine, the production lot will be very large, and therefore the low price, the same parts and consumables are plus staff training. Another plus is the obvious cost-effectiveness, TS is not always needed for work; the power of all 3-4 diesel generator sets is enough in 80% of cases, and here you have real fuel economy. And the possibility of working as a source of electricity somewhere in the parking lot will be very popular.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 14 May 2014 20: 12
              +2
              Quote: max702
              The people are categorically unaware of the current electric motors, generators


              The only reason why motor wheels are still not used in military equipment is the need for their liquid cooling during operation, which is fraught with failure of the entire drive in case of penetration of a distributed cooling system by a bullet / fragment / projectile.
              Therefore, the only real place for the use of GSU in military equipment is tracked vehicles with case traction electric motors equipped with a compact liquid cooling system, planetary gearboxes

              [media = http: //www.dogswar.ru/forum/viewtopic.php? f = 7 & p = 18550]
              this is the main reason !!!!

              electric motors motor-wheels, have liquid cooling, combined with the engine cooling system, armored cars ...
  9. JonnyT
    JonnyT 14 May 2014 10: 58
    +3
    First of all, for unmanned vehicles, I think it makes sense in hybrids .... in general, the "krymsk" project is used as a technology development and finding new technical solutions .... the advantages of using a hybrid, of course, are noiselessness and lack of thermal radiation, can be used as a big "battery" for army systems ....... 100% ..... there are future ones, but only now these are the first timid steps ....
  10. dikir-77
    dikir-77 14 May 2014 11: 05
    +4
    For me, a great idea and quite robust. Regarding reliability, dirt and moodiness, the Belaz Belaz operates in very harsh conditions, and dust and dirt and overload, but it rarely breaks, although there are more loads than BMP.
    In short, I am for everything.
  11. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 14 May 2014 11: 17
    +7
    Damn, when I see the "base" of the BTR-90, it hurts somewhere in the shower ...
    Such a machine was profiled, but already assembled in METAL.
    Shove anything into it, from fighters to ZRAK. - a good platform.

    It remains to be hoped that the Boomerang will be no worse, but it is still far from the conveyor ...

    Handsome speed and "roads":
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 14 May 2014 13: 26
      +2
      Quote: Aleks tv
      It remains to be hoped that the Boomerang will be no worse, but it is still far from the conveyor ...

      hi Aleksey hi
      they didn’t waste it, but it’s simple ....., excellent BTR-90 "Rostok" .....
      what do you do, the realities of today ((((

      Regarding the release of "Kurganets", the timing has yet to shift, it was supposed with its serial production, to change the entire machine park, at the plant, now the sanctions, how will they do it ?????

      and BTR-90, and after the 20-year, WAS A MODERN MACHINE !!!!
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 14 May 2014 13: 34
        +2
        Quote: cosmos111
        they didn’t waste it, but it’s simple ....., excellent BTR-90 "Rostok" .....

        Greetings, Andrew.
        hi

        Yeah ... the most annoying thing ... HE ALREADY WAS IN THE METAL.
        These monsters would be very useful, for example - NOW.
        wink
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 14 May 2014 15: 29
          +1
          Quote: Aleks tv
          These monsters would be very useful, for example - NOW.

          even as useful, and most importantly there is nothing to replace them .....

          there is no such class (WHEEL BMP 8x8), we have armored vehicles (((((
          the French have wheels ... BMP Nexter, Germans Boxer, multipurpose Patria AMV, etc. and everything surpasses our BTR80 / 82 .....
  12. Somad
    Somad 14 May 2014 11: 43
    +4
    I read the comments and see that they are written mostly by technically illiterate "specialists". I especially liked:
    Quote: qwert
    A bunch of motor-generator-electric motors twice tried to implement. On Ferdinand and on Is-6

    I immediately remembered Ivan the Terrible in the film "Ivan Vasilyevich Changes His Profession": "I also had one like this - I made wings ... I put him on a barrel of gunpowder - let him fly!" And further:
    The only thing they are afraid of is water and mud.

    What are you speaking about??? We are in the 21st century !!! The pace of technology development is moving at an incredible speed! "Krymsk" is a perspective And an article about "Krymsk" on topwar has already been ...
  13. zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 14 May 2014 12: 09
    +4
    Expensively with a sledgehammer. Not tired? Well, let's fight on the T 34 and fly on the "Formans"? The world does not stand still - More recently, clever people spoke out that a calamator was not needed on Kalash, why then laser and night sights? more reliable than mechanics, the engine is needed much less powerful and more compact. Well, the efficiency of electrical systems is much higher than that of DVS. And the fact that the Ministry of Defense began to think about tomorrow is respectful.
  14. theadenter
    theadenter 14 May 2014 12: 14
    +1
    That's the car and experimental.
  15. KOSMOS
    KOSMOS 14 May 2014 12: 24
    +2
    I welcome experiment in this direction, the developments will not hurt.
  16. Free wind
    Free wind 14 May 2014 14: 25
    0
    The efficiency of the electric generator is 80-90%, the efficiency of the electric motor is 90-95, the efficiency of the converters is 92-95%. More than 30% of the power is lost in all generators, converters. The efficiency of mechanics is 99% in direct gear, approximately 96% in first gear. Automatic 92-96% efficiency. The weight of the generator is 200 kilowatts about 2-3 tons, the boxes for this machine are no more than 800 kg. the generators are made of copper, and you know about its price. The same situation with electric motors, and there are already 8 of them. The battery weighs about a ton, and its price is just space. How an experiment can be. only at the expense of the factory directorate. And if at the expense of the state budget ... then this is a concrete squandering of the state budget. Well, as for the noiselessness, normal wildernesses just do wonders.
    1. max702
      max702 14 May 2014 15: 44
      +2
      Add to the mechanics the efficiency of each cardan joint and CV joint and other fur ties, it will not be so chocolate, and repairing the differential and gearbox is much more difficult than throwing the wire, the price of copper compared to the steel grades used in the transmission will most likely be lower.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 14 May 2014 16: 21
        0
        there are more "competent" mechanical boxes - variators, and "competent" all-wheel drive is provided by a caterpillar (or chain)
      2. Free wind
        Free wind 14 May 2014 16: 53
        0
        Efficiency cardan, SHRUS ,. other shafts 100%, well, if you want 99,99%. Throw the wire is not difficult, but did not try to rewind the generator? And rewind the electric motor? Steel grades in gearbox. not space. Well, IN BELAZI !!!!!! From electric transmissions on cars is small ??? !!!!! ??? !! carrying capacity 75-120 tons !!! refused for a long time. Firstborn BELAZ WITH ET I remember BELAZ 740. With a carrying capacity of 75 tons, it is discontinued. But now the giants raising up to 200 tons AND BELAZES, too, are trying to equip the gas turbine engine, automatic transmission. Well, the heroes, yes, there is electricity. But the katopiler released a truck with a gas turbine ... with a carrying capacity of 350t. ON BELAZ created a truck !!! With a loading capacity of 450 tons !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course E.T. only in the giant’s cabin. worth tens of millions of rubles. Well, you can make a more beautiful interior. DOES THIS WEIGHT INCIDENTALLY DO NOT HAVE 100 TONS? NO. then it's just an experience, just experiment for your money please
    2. go
      go 15 May 2014 01: 04
      +4
      Quote: Free Wind
      The efficiency of the electric generator is 80-90%, the efficiency of the electric motor is 90-95, the efficiency of the converters is 92-95%. More than 30% of the power is lost in all generators, converters. The efficiency of mechanics is 99% in direct gear, approximately 96% in first gear. Automatic 92-96% efficiency. The weight of the generator is 200 kilowatts about 2-3 tons, the boxes for this machine are no more than 800 kg. the generators are made of copper, and you know about its price. The same situation with electric motors, and there are already 8 of them. The battery weighs about a ton, and its price is just space. How an experiment can be. only at the expense of the factory directorate. And if at the expense of the state budget ... then this is a concrete squandering of the state budget. Well, as for the noiselessness, normal wildernesses just do wonders.


      Efficiency (real) ICE 25% max, forgot about recovery, which increases the overall efficiency of the system, there are not batteries, but capacitors.
  17. e_krendel
    e_krendel 14 May 2014 17: 29
    +3
    Quote: Free Wind
    against conventional transmissions, efficiency is very low.

    And why was she able to travel a greater distance than usual? this is precisely what speaks of higher efficiency. The traction characteristics of electric motors ideally correspond to the nature of the load - the greatest torque at zero revolutions, which is required when starting off. No ICE can provide this. That is why the hybrid transmission turned out to be a sufficiently less powerful engine to perform the same tasks.
    1. Free wind
      Free wind 14 May 2014 19: 14
      0
      and a fuel truck can go even further !!!! About the amount of fuel on board there was not a single word !!!!
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 14 May 2014 19: 46
        0
        no, well, this could be: factory tests and the track were chosen for their car, its engine is smaller and works, mainly, in the optimal mode. But that's all ... How she kneads the dirt, we are not shown, apparently there are problems. Problems should also be on rugged terrain, when the batteries will be "drained" in the very first kilometers and the car will remain one-on-one off-road, with its reduced engine
  18. e_krendel
    e_krendel 14 May 2014 17: 41
    +4
    Quote: Free Wind
    The efficiency of the electric generator is 80-90%, the efficiency of the electric motor is 90-95, the efficiency of the converters is 92-95%. More than 30% of the power is lost in all generators, converters. The efficiency of mechanics is 99% in direct gear, approximately 96% in first gear. Automatic 92-96% efficiency. Weight 200 kilowatt generator about 2-3 tons

    You confuse something ... It is difficult to find a generator with an efficiency of less than 92%. The electric motor has the same one (for the motor is a reversed generator and vice versa). Total 1-0,92 * 0,92 * 0,92 = 0,22. Those. in the worst case, 22% of the energy is lost on conversions. But a significant part of it returns with regenerative braking, and does not warm the pads. The weight of the generator is also some awkwardly large.
    1. Igor I.
      Igor I. 15 May 2014 00: 24
      0
      You confuse it: theoretical efficiency and real.
      The efficiency of any electric machine (both generator and motor) drops by about a third after warming up to operating temperature. This is 10-15 minutes at full power. Then the system "sags" in all characteristics.
      So the figures are rather underestimated.
      And any intermediate conservation of energy is a loss of about half the energy spent ...

      The increase in mileage of the prototype, as indicated in the article - from reducing engine power. Which, incidentally, indirectly indicates problems with the cooling of the electrical system. Otherwise, why was it reduced? :)

      Manufacturers "sell" more complex and expensive systems not only in the defense industry ...
      Falsify a couple of numbers - you look, sucker and povёlitsya ... :)
  19. Free wind
    Free wind 14 May 2014 18: 26
    +1
    To illuminate the fighting compartment of the armored personnel carrier, to reduce fuel consumption. and to increase the power reserve, the designers used the lighting of the fighting compartment, alarms ... such as a kerosene lamp "bat".
  20. Yarik
    Yarik 14 May 2014 18: 37
    +1
    Free wind (1) Today, 14:25 New
    The efficiency of the electric generator is 80-90%, the efficiency of the electric motor is 90-95, the efficiency of the converters is 92-95%. More than 30% of the power is lost in all generators, converters. The efficiency of mechanics is 99% in direct gear, approximately 96% in first gear. Automatic 92-96% efficiency. The weight of the generator is 200 kilowatts about 2-3 tons, the boxes for this machine are no more than 800 kg. the generators are made of copper, and you know about its price. The same situation with electric motors, and there are already 8 of them. The battery weighs about a ton, and its price is just space. How an experiment can be. only at the expense of the factory directorate. And if at the expense of the state budget ... then this is a concrete squandering of the state budget. Well, as for the noiselessness, normal wildernesses just do wonders.


    Plus to you. This is simply called the laws of physics. All devices do not add intermediate efficiency. And if they add ... well then it's to blame. Correct.
  21. grandfather_Kostya
    grandfather_Kostya 14 May 2014 22: 10
    0
    Give Yo-armored car! If they bring it to mind, it will turn out to be an excellent platform for products with huge energy consumption: radars, combat lasers, etc.
  22. kav669
    kav669 14 May 2014 22: 23
    0
    I think in the experimental version will remain, but science works and it pleases
  23. bublic82009
    bublic82009 15 May 2014 00: 11
    0
    all is good. but requires a different level of service. and the question is how does this chassis overcome wet ground?
  24. go
    go 15 May 2014 01: 31
    +3
    It is nice that in Russia they are trying to keep up with the times and are developing hybrid car platforms, which (ento I can say for sure) are also engaged in leading sweatshops in the sweat of their faces and bodies. Europe and the USA. The advantages for this particular application will be as follows:

    1) Higher system efficiency, which means topl. Efficiency: an electric motor as a traction engine is 2-3 times more efficient than ICE. A diesel engine running on a generator will work in an optimal mode for itself (the resource will increase significantly), recovery significantly increases the efficiency of the system. Shorter and simpler drives, in which there will be less friction loss. It is not a hunt to consider system efficiency - it’s too late already.
    2) Thermal and sound secrecy in combat mode (on stored energy): already every infantryman sovr. the army has a thermal imager, I don’t think I need to explain further.
    3) As indicated by the best dynamic characteristics of the machine. I drove an electric car - the torque there is not very bad.

    Disadvantages: I see only the EMR problem, but you can think about it. The cost of copper or post. magnets for Russia, with its resources should not be a problem. Maintainability education issue - electrical engineers in Russia are among the best in the world.

    PS: When Prokhorov abandoned the ё-mobile project, acting as a typical marketer who, when he sees a problem, hides his head in the sand, for me it no longer exists.
  25. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 16 May 2014 07: 28
    +1
    The technique is moving forward. Remember, just a few decades ago, almost everything rested on mechanics. Until electronics became cheaper and more modern, compact, flexible and more reliable. These developments definitely have a future!
  26. SAMARA
    SAMARA 18 May 2014 00: 00
    0
    And how will electric transmission and hybrid SU react to the Compton effect ?? mm ??
  27. Alecksey
    Alecksey 29 May 2014 01: 48
    +1
    Dear commentators.
    Regarding questions to the electric motor, I recommend referring to the source: http://www.mpei.ru/LANG/RUS/Publish/InfoAcadCncl/2013/LashkevichMM.pdf
    Separately, I can say that on multi-wheeled vehicles DO NOT use permanent magnet motors. In the event of a malfunction in the wheel (a shell hit, the winding burns out) and continued movement, the magnets will create an EMF, which, if a malfunction occurs in the electrical part, can cause a fire. It is necessary to disconnect the motor and the wheel. It is for this reason that a valve-induction motor is used in Krymsk.
  28. aspid21
    aspid21 29 May 2014 15: 43
    0
    Can we, if we want?