Saxon battle sword of the XVI century.

A half-handed sword (English Hand-and-a-Half Sword), it’s a recession (Italian Spada), a long sword (German Langschwert) or a battle sword
- Western European sword, which was held mainly with two hands, but if necessary, one-handed grip was also possible. Made in Saxony around 1580 g. Length (total): 125,5, see Translation from English. Photos in high resolution.

Sword with a wide double-edged blade, with a flattened short Dol.

Ephesus open, to protect hands from weapons the enemy has a complex guard in the form of a cross-bar, perpendicular to the blade, and also protective massive rings between the blade and the basket-type handle, partially covering the ricasso.

On the ricasso - the unfinished part of the blade adjacent to the guard, the borders and engraved marks of three unidentified
gunsmiths from both sides.

Garda with straight cross-beams having spade ends with small balls at the ends. Oval-shaped handle across, tapering towards the guard, covered with leather. The handle includes a conical metal top. They can cause serious blows.

The sword has amazing balancing

Despite the apparent outward simplicity and restraint, the sword presented was classified as expensive. Saxon gunsmiths were famous for their craftsmanship in Europe. Such swords are the culmination of the development of Western European swords with an open hilt.

Comments

[sub307]

A good weapon for its time. The Hermitage has such items, you can take a look "live".

[ShturmKGB]

Thanks for the review, admired the swords!

[Dezzed]

It looks like a good weapon, but still how far from the Japanese older brother ...

[RPG_]

They have completely different tasks! This sword was created to cut down knights in armor, not women in kimano.

[abrakadabre]

It looks like a good weapon, but still how far from the Japanese older brother ...

What is it about?
If you do not know the subject of discussion, then it is better not to write. Marry ... competent ... competent.
Since you have already drawn the Japanese blades, you should inquire in advance and know that the katana is a "sword" (and in fact a saber) for CIVIL wearing. That is, in peacetime. European counterparts:
until the 16th century, ceremonial or reduced swords;
the end of the 15th beginning of the 16th century - foil (and that is not everywhere), in Italy - chinqueda;
after - lightweight versions of swords, from which the wrong opinion about the sword as a "toothpick" went.
The Japanese battle sword is a tati, a two-handed saber with a longer blade length (more than 75-80 cm), with a large bend of the blade and a hilt with a small deflection.

Of course, the katana was super-effective in peacetime, when the opponents wore civilian clothes. But she didn’t even chop Japanese weak armor about anything. And European plate and even more so. There is neither enough mass of the blade, nor length to win the distance. Which is not offset by a two-handed grip. There is no developed guard for parrying the enemy or striking in the face. And there is no massive apple, which is not only a counterweight, but also an excellent brass knuckles in the clinch.

The quality is the same ... The European sword and Japanese katana of the same level of manufacture are comparable. But the blades, as they say today, of the lower price segment from Europe were much better. Japan is very poor in deposits of good iron.

[Sergey TT]

You know, I read somewhere that the low strength of steel of Japanese swords influenced their fencing. They refused stitching punches. Maybe I didn’t understand.

[abrakadabre]

You know, I read somewhere that the low strength of steel of Japanese swords influenced their fencing. They refused stitching punches. Maybe I didn’t understand.

The best Japanese swords have the highest quality. Like the best European ones. At what cost and tricks this was achieved is another question.
But the quality of steel on mass production, blades for ordinary soldiers - European is better.
The piercing function in Japanese swords is quite good. This is facilitated by a two-handed grip, the thickness of the blade and the minimum bending of the blade, which allows a powerful poking movement. This is not a Persian shamshir or a Turkish saber.

[mongoose]

and a saber is better especially after firing

[DesToeR]

Beautiful laconic weapon. I would like to know more about how it was mainly used: with a shield or in heavy armor, on foot or mainly on a horse, how the materials and parameters were chosen during its manufacture - i.e. a little background for the ignorant.

[mongoose]

two-handed with a shield?

[Artyom]

I do not know from where the author of the article got information on this weapon, but according to the book "Weapon" written by Peter Petrovich von Winkler, published in 1894. This weapon is a sword of mounted warriors. The handle has a massive knob to balance the long blade. So it's for one-handed operation! The German infantry used a similar sword, but with a shorter and narrower blade. Shields by this time were almost never used due to the use of firearms.
in stigma, it looks like the work of Milanese gunsmiths

[alexx83]

Indeed - the shape of the handle is more suitable for a single grip. However, if necessary, you can work with both hands. The opinion of the amateur.

[abrakadabre]

Indeed - the shape of the handle is more suitable for a single grip. However, if necessary, you can work with both hands. The opinion of the amateur.

Such a handle is considered one and a half hand grip. That is, the size of the handle to about two closed hands. A two-handed grip is considered when there is a gap between the hand grabs.

[abrakadabre]

By the time such swords appeared, the shields were mostly out of use due to the high quality of the armor.
The main infantry weapons were 5-6 meter peaks. Blade weapons were auxiliary. Therefore, the infantry used relatively short swords or cleats.
In turn, the cavalry in the first half of the 16th century abandoned the heavy knightly spear. This was due to two reasons: the increased firepower of firearms (both individual and artillery) and the widespread use of dense spear (pikiner) munitions.
The cavalry attacked in two ways: karakolirovaniye a reiter with multiple consecutive pistol salvos with a short-range formation, or a cuirassier attack when a cuirassier attacked at a gallop and a short-range salvo was fired, after which, using a short turmoil in the ranks of the enemy from the volley, build at maximum speed attacked with a blade weapon.
The article presents exactly the original combat sword - a cavalry knight's sword. The term "sword" did not exist at that time. Spada - translated simply as "sword"

[Free wind]

This is a sword, or at least her dad. Not of course, but the last 4 days when you enter the site, the antivirus reports that the site is infected with a virus and strongly recommends leaving the site.

[mongoose]

then he paired a gun

[Yarik]

DrWeb Link Checker for the browser and Malwarebyt as a scanner for the system. The system, in the way, is out of order!

[leonardo_1971]

I love edged weapons!

[DesToeR]

Quote: mongoose

two-handed with a shield?

As I understand it, one and a half-handler. The article does not indicate the weight of the sword, but it is said about excellent balance. I would like to know how such a kind of sword was used in combat, what kind of blows they were mostly stabbed or chopped, what protective equipment the warrior used with this weapon and his tactics in the battle.

[abrakadabre]

what blows were predominantly stabbed or chopped, what defenses did the warrior use with these weapons and his tactics in the battle.

This blade allows you to fully use both chopping and stabbing strokes. It all depends on who is in front of you: the enemy in armor or without. But given that in the 16th century the infantry was also very decent and massively hospitable. So there are more piercing punches.
The owner of the sword was in armor. If a rich knight, then full or three-quarter armor. If it’s worse, then from three-quarter to half-armor.

[mongoose]

transitional type, still chopping and already pricking

[pensioner]

Did Baron Pampa accidentally portray a cargo helicopter in "Gray Joy"?

[mongoose]

no there was a classic

[mark1]

Well there, judging by how easily the ceiling beam was cut, there was something cooler.

[pensioner]

Quote: mark1

Well there, judging by how easily the ceiling beam was cut, there was something cooler.

[kirpich]

... or the beam was rotten

[Eugeniy_369k]

Quote: retired

Did Baron Pampa accidentally portray a cargo helicopter in "Gray Joy"?

Nice to see such comments))))

“You have to make good out of evil, because there is nothing more to do from it.”

[padonok.71]

Further development of the bastard. Later degenerated into komzolnye swords. The main field of application (judging by the shape of the handle) is cavalry cutting. For foot combat, the handle is different.

[Barakuda]

A beautiful thing. But "items" with the curvature of the saber type have proven their superiority since the time of the Crusades. In Russia, such items have not been observed since the 14th century. Is that suitable for cavalry.

[woron333444]

Europe was lagging behind in arms development at that time

[abrakadabre]

Europe was lagging behind in arms development at that time

Hmm ... Very controversial statement.

[Dezzed]

Quote: abrakadabre

Hmm ... Very controversial statement.

[abrakadabre]

And what did you want to say with these photos? What Europe technologically and qualitatively lagged behind in weapons? Then why did Europe conquer either the whole world directly or culturally and technologically, and not enslave it?

Katana is actually a saber with low curvature and a two-handed grip. No more. Only steamed to the impossibility.
The saber against plate armor is ineffective. Because, sabers in Europe were not widespread until the armor became obsolete.

Massively manufactured European armor was also better. Because they were exported. In the same Japan. But something was not brought to Europe by O-ora. If they were so magically awesome, then what kind of king or emperor could afford to get these. But alas.
And for some reason the muskets were brought to the same Japan in large quantities for sale, and not in the opposite direction. Probably due to European technological backwardness.

[tchoni]

against full armor with kirassa - the saber is not an ice, as it is difficult to cut through it, it is only possible to pierce it and you need to find another place. so whoever fought with whom he used.

[alex shnajder]

the sword is perfect in form ....

[Free wind]

Of course, this weapon is almost a sword. Therefore, the battle with its use is fencing. For an armored warrior, this sword? it's a match. The scope of this sword is a battle against lightly armed, unarmored warriors. I am not familiar with knightly combat, I just like knives, and I dabbled in making knives. Therefore, it was my admiration for knightly armor. besides beauty, corrosion did not touch him. And this sword is very shabby with time. Why? By the way, in the last article about armor, there was a saying that in front of a line of soldiers, the horse stops. Nothing like this!!! War horses trained to break through barriers? Imagine a PIG attack, the first heavy warrior galloped to the enemy ... and his horse stopped in front of the enemy formation .... and what's the point? No! The horses were trained not afraid of obstacles, so that they break through the enemy ranks with their bodies. . What training? Well, probably at the beginning of the thread hanging almost like a canvas, to make the horse understand that this would not hurt him. Then an obstacle is made make everything more tangible. I am sure that the armored horses rushed into the thick of the enemy system, and their strike was very terrible.

[woron333444]

In a horse attack, acceleration is the main thing, and a heavily armed horse in armor can hardly be stopped, they broke through the infantry defense

[abrakadabre]

In a horse attack, acceleration is the main thing, and a heavily armed horse in armor can hardly be stopped, they broke through the infantry defense

Exactly. But the horse is a living thing, not a robot. And when he sees an obstacle in front of him, he assesses the degree of danger and the ability to overcome it at his level of understanding. If he sees that he can overcome, then he will obey the rider and try. If in his opinion the obstacle is insurmountable, then no tapping and spurs will help.
The dense spear system of many long peaks was insurmountable for cavalry, because even the most aggressive horse most often did not go to the peaks.

[Vasek]

Quote: abrakadabre

Exactly. But the horse is a living thing, not a robot. And when he sees an obstacle in front of him, he assesses the degree of danger and the ability to overcome it at his level of understanding. If he sees that he can overcome, then he will obey the rider and try. If in his opinion the obstacle is insurmountable, then no tapping and spurs will help.

Another universal injustice: how many innocent horses were killed in unnecessary human showdowns!
But what a clever and devoted animal!
(sorry not about the sword)

[abrakadabre]

The scope of this sword is a battle against lightly armed, unarmored warriors. I'm not familiar with knightly combat, I just like knives

This is a universal sword for combat, both with the enemy in armor and against the unsuspected.

and by the way, in a previous article about armor, there was a saying that in front of a line of soldiers, the horse stops. Nothing like this!!! War horses trained to break through barriers? Imagine a PIG attack, the first heavy warrior galloped to the enemy ... and his horse stopped in front of the enemy formation .... and what's the point? No! The horses were trained not afraid of obstacles, so that they break through the enemy ranks with their bodies.

It depends on what system. If just one or two ranks of swordsmen, he’ll trample and not notice. But if there are several rows of pikemen with peaks of 5-6 meters that stick into the ground and tilt towards the attack, then it may stop at the last moment. Or having run into a large number of peaks, die without making a gap in the infantry formation.
But in one I agree, a warhorse (namely a horse, not a mare) is by no means timid. And yes, they trained him. As they are not afraid, so attack. Considering that knightly destruction in armor and with a rider can weigh 900-1000 kg, against 80-90 kg of an infantryman in armor, a horse breaking through the infantry order will trample the enemy in droves, even if the knight himself only manages.

[les103284]

Whether he is good in close combat is a moot point, but the fact that the enemy has little chance of "hitting" him is a fact. And the owner of this weapon probably kept himself in good physical shape, again a plus!

[Mark Twain]

Such a dagger was made at the Zlatoust factory

[Fobos-grunt]

Quote: DesToeR

I would like to know more about how it was mainly used ... i.e. a little background for the ignorant.

This is difficult to describe in the big book. But I will give a couple of bright touches from the history of people and weapons. This is a typical weapon of mercenaries - Landsknechtov and Reitar, which became widespread in Europe from the end of the XV century. before the beginning of the XVIII century. were a transitional link from the knightly cavalry of the Middle Ages to the regular armies of modern times, which were equipped with recruits.
We are interested in the fact that the Landsknechts (yes, Germans!) Took part on the side of the Moscow forces in the Starodub War (1534-1537) against the Lithuanians and Poles. About them and about this unsuccessful war for the Russian forces, says the “Chronicle of the whole world“ (Kronika wszystkiego świata) by the Polish author Belsky M

[Vasek]

Quote: Fobos-grunt

it’s a typical weapon of mercenaries - Landsknechtov and Reitar, which became widespread in Europe from the end of the XV century before the beginning of the XVIII century.

Why are they all in flippers in the picture?

[abrakadabre]

Why are they all in flippers in the picture?

These are special combat flippers. At the time of the attack, on the run, they spanked them in the mud and raised clouds of dirty spray. What terrified the purebred enemies, who were afraid to dirty their powdery muzzles.
Again, trampling on a surrendering enemy with such a big, dirty "paw" was considered more humiliating than ordinary shoes.

[Mikhail3]

The main use of the sword is the destruction of the shield. This bastard is so thin because metallurgy has progressed already noticeably. No fencing (well, a few spins, a milling cutter, breaking the blade with a catcher - these are the rings, that’s all), only scrap chopping strikes to split the board from the edge of the shield or crushing the metal shackle. Armor will cut through without problems, for this you need to grab the handle with your second hand and add strength to the blow. The tip is non-functional, upon closer inspection it will most likely turn out to be blunt - so as not to get stuck.
Interestingly, he survived. With a shortage of good metal, swords are usually reforged and not kept. Looks like it went out of use very quickly, which happened just from a spasmodic improvement in technology. Thinner and more flexible blades began to cancel shields as a class, and in a duel with this handsome man they won at times faster. And this is a sentence, so the sword went to the wall, moreover, the good metal fell in price ...

[Artyom]

You look at the date of manufacture, man! By this time, the shields were carried only by the Turks. In Europe, already in all of the arquebuse bullets mocked!

[Kombrig]

Why do you write about the Turks as a backward people (in military affairs), it was at this time that the Ottoman Empire was armed with the most powerful and modern artillery, if not in the world, then in Europe for sure ...

[abrakadabre]

Why do you write about the Turks as a backward people (in military affairs)

Where does your opponent talk about the backwardness of the Turks?
The brilliant Porta, in addition to a professional and very well-equipped permanent army, a large number of irregular auxiliary troops. manned by the principle of militia from dozens of subordinate peoples and tribes. Such contingents went into battle with their weapons. And these were by no means the most technologically advanced nationalities. So they used shields relatively massively during this period.
In addition, shields continued to be used during the assaults of fortresses. And in Europe too. But not as often as before, when almost every warrior had a shield.
It should also not be forgotten that the eastern armored complex of the "heavy" class did not follow the European path of total booking and was much lighter. Since a different tactic was used: a massive long shelling from bows, and not a ramming spear strike in a closed formation.

[abrakadabre]

The main use of the sword is the destruction of the shield. This bastard is so thin because metallurgy has progressed already noticeably. No fencing (well, a few spins, a milling cutter, breaking the blade with a catcher - these are the rings, that's all), only scrap chopping strikes to break the board from the edge of the shield or crushing the metal shackle.

Hmm ... it was getting dark ...
Everything is verbatim to comment for a long time and laziness.
Minus for not knowing the subject. For the network has enough literature on the topic, even for those who do not specifically train or do not study in depth.

[Metlik]

The top serves as a counterweight to improve balance. Although you can hit them.

[Logos]

Quote: DezzeD

Quote: abrakadabre

Hmm ... Very controversial statement.

The fact that the Japanese katana was inferior even to the arquebus invented by "lagging Europe" was well shown by the battle of Nagashino, where the Odo arquebusiers destroyed the Takeda cavalry. Since then, the main purpose of the katana has been to decorate weapon collections and raise the wearer's HR and not bring victories in real combat.

[Dezzed]

"the battle of Nagashino, where the Odo arquebusiers destroyed the Takeda cavalry"

Article about edged weapons. I compared European and Japanese blades.
insert arquebuses here as well as claim that the knife is weaker than the tank.

[abrakadabre]

Since then, the main purpose of the katana is to decorate weapon collections and raise the owner’s ChSV and not bring victory in a real battle

Katana is not a military sword. More precisely, not the main military sword.
Samurai wore two blades in battle:
TATI - the main large military sword (functionally analogous to the Saxon sword sword, considered in this article) - looks like a katana only longer and slightly curved.
KATANA is a relatively short secondary blade of "second chance", which was used in case of breakage or loss of the main one. Still, it was necessary to fight against a well-informed enemy.
In peacetime, only a katana was worn. Since dragging, roughly speaking at taverns or on a visit, a hefty fool with you is uncomfortable, and people around you will perceive with suspicion that you purposefully seek to resolve someone, once you drag a military weapon.
After the end of strife, during the Tokugawa shogunate, when there were no wars for nearly 300 years, this pair of combat blades became lightweight. The katana took the place of the main sword. The auxiliary blade was a wakizashi - a small "katana". This was more than enough against the enemy in a civilian "pajamas" -kimono.

[Logos]

Quote: DezzeD

"the battle of Nagashino, where the Odo arquebusiers destroyed the Takeda cavalry"

Article about edged weapons. I compared European and Japanese blades.
insert arquebuses here as well as claim that the knife is weaker than the tank.

This is depending on the context in which to compare. In a battle against an opponent chained in cuirass or plate armor, a straight sword is much better than a katana, because it is better to pierce a vulnerable spot than to cut through steel, but against an armless katan or saber is better. And since the Japanese with good armor were always straining, the katana was more suitable for them, but the Europeans of the 16th century were much more impressed by the direct sword or sword

[smart ass]

How much weight is interesting ???

[Fidel]

I was very much interested in the "stigma of three unidentified masters".
This is what caused them then?
How core stamps look, applied by a special device made of tool steels during serial production))