"East" instead of "Baikonur"?

In the Svobodnensky District of the Amur Region, the construction of one of the most important objects of the space industry, the Vostochny cosmodrome, continues. The week ended the stage of summing up the power lines spaceport under construction. The connection goes through the modernized substation “Ledyanaya”, which provides with electric energy not only the construction site itself, but also numerous infrastructure facilities that are directly connected with the construction of Vostochny. Due to the fact that the capacity of the mentioned substation can be sufficient only for the construction stage of the cosmodrome, in the future it is planned to use the more powerful (productive) substation Amurskaya for the operation of the Vostochny with its extensive complex consisting of two launch sites, an airfield, automobile and railway tracks and two special plants.

If the work is carried out without significant failures, then by the autumn of 2014, at the launch site, they will begin to install special equipment. In other words, the “skeleton” of the cosmodrome should be ready in about six months, after which the cosmodrome will, in 13-14 months, be brought to mind (well, or to perfection) by installing hardware systems ensuring the effectiveness of space launches. Around December 2015, the first space launch from one of the Vostochny sites was scheduled.

However, according to estimates of government officials in charge of the construction of the cosmodrome in the Amur Region (supervisor activities with control functions are conducted by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin), there are not enough technical specialists and workers employed at the Vostochny facilities to implement the plans. Dmitry Rogozin says that if today no more than 5300 people are employed in the project, then to accomplish the tasks set in a specified period of time it will take about 15000 builders, engineers and other qualified specialists.
It should be noted that the further progress is made in the construction of a spaceport in the Far East of Russia, the less voices are heard by skeptics about why, they say, Russia needs all this. If at the initial stage the design of a number of specialists, many of whom were and are directly related to the space programs of different years, wondered about the feasibility of building the Vostochny in connection with the presence of Baikonur, today the opinion of these people has changed significantly. I do not want to look for some kind of artificial parallels and even indirectly cast a shadow on Kazakhstani friends, but, having burned myself with milk, begins, as they say, to pragmatically blow on the water.

Russia leases Baikonur from Kazakhstan. This is certainly great. The Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan are in the Customs Union, they constantly strengthen cooperation, build close relations with Belarus within the framework of the future Eurasian Economic Union. However, some tectonic processes in the political life of other neighboring states make it possible to reflect on the fact that, with any narrowness of partnership, their own shirt is still closer to the body. No need here to look for any pitfalls in relations with Astana, you just need to understand that such a state like Russia should have its own high-quality and modern platform for implementing the most ambitious space projects. And this site is designated - Vostochny Cosmodrome. The choice, as is known, fell on this territory due to the fact that it is not densely populated, and also due to the fact that the local latitudes will allow us to bring manned and unmanned vehicles into space with an economic advantage (compared with even more northern "Plesetsk").

What will happen to Baikonur if Russia is really implementing its own project in the Far East in the near future? There are two opinions on this score, and the most interesting is that they are diametrically opposed.
First opinion: the Baikonur cosmodrome will, so to say, gradually fade away, since today it requires serious modernization, which the Kazakh side wishes to conduct in the “50 / 50” mode with Russian colleagues. The Russian colleagues say that at this stage they pay rent for the operation of the Baikonur site, and Astana should carry out modernization measures directly. If neither Russia, nor Kazakhstan, nor any other country that has any space ambitions invest in Baikonur, then the future of this famous cosmodrome can be really foggy.

Opinion two: the construction of the Vostochny cosmodrome, on the contrary, can be an impetus for the development of Baikonur and investment in it within quite healthy competition. Will Russia need two practically equivalent cosmodromes (talking about Vostochny and Baikonur)? Now it is impossible to give an unequivocal answer to this question, but if Russia really begins to embody ambitious space programs into reality, then there will definitely be a place for Baikonur among them. As they say, one quality platform is good, but two is better. In addition, Baikonur may well be interested in a third party. And if this interest does not contradict the interests of Kazakhstan, then “Baikonur” may eventually turn into a real international project, in the plus from the realization of which will be the economy of Kazakhstan including.

The main thing is that the construction of Vostochny should not become an object of a kind of bargaining between Moscow and Astana. Healthy competition is a great option, groundless confrontation and an attempt to bargain for something from each other is not a better future for states that are in close and constructive cooperation today.

Comments

[rugor]

Not a very informative article.

[ShturmKGB]

I do not think that Vostochny will be brought to the level of Baikonur at least in the next 10 years, so Baikonur will be in demand for a long time.

[avt]

ShturmKGB

I do not think that Vostochny will be brought to the level of Baikonur even in the next 10 years

And what's the point of bringing it to such a level ??? Well, today's Russia has no space program equal to that of the USSR.

ShturmKGB

therefore "Baikonur" will be in demand for a long time

Let's put it differently - in accordance with the economic possibilities and the program, if it is finally intelligible, individual objects of the Baikonur cosmodrome will be used. What we actually see for example on Balkhash. Stretch your legs over your clothes, this also applies to Russia. Well, we will not pull out the entire cosmodrome as in the USSR. As for a third party's entry to Baikonur, well, it looks more like the horror stories of colleagues from the Kazakhstan Space Agency. All "third parties" have their own national sites, this time, the cosmodrome really needs to be modernized, except for the metal there is nothing new to take, these are two. And finally, the Kazakh desire to become a space, full-fledged power. Discarding the nuances of quotas for commercial launching and admitting a new player to them, we can only state one thing - in the short term, these desires entirely depend on how quickly and with what losses Russia will solve the Ukrainian crisis and whether it will be able to stop it without bringing the Ukraine 1991 project to an economic catastrophe. ... Otherwise, Zenit will be covered with a copper basin for the Kazakhs, and indeed for Russia too. The Brazilians, having put on the Ukrainian Cyclone, are already nervous with their table.

[Lindon]

ShturmKGB
avt
They wrote about the case - and immediately minus it. Here's how you can write the truth about Roscosmos, the East and the Angara launch vehicle?
But things are not so hot. And there is also the Sea Launch. But the participants do not want to take off their pink glasses - in space in Russia EVERYTHING IS GOOD !!!

[avt]

Quote: Lindon

And there is also the Sea Launch.

Practically Russia, through commercial structures, bought the table, and the rocket, then Yuzhmashevskaya.

Quote: Lindon

. Here's how you can write the truth about Roscosmos, the East and the Angara launch vehicle?
But things are not so hot.

Well, not so gloomy. "Angara" will certainly be brought to mind from an easy to a difficult version and it will most likely replace 500ku and heptyl will not be poured either to Kazakhstan or Altai, there will be two launch points for it - Plesetsk and Vostochny. about a heavy medium comparable to "Energy", it is more like cutting funds, which, again in light of the international situation, simply do not exist. In general, the gigantomania of the times of the 70s is a dead-end path. Even Feoktistov in the USSR voiced that it was necessary to look for alternative ways of development than chemical missiles. So, in general terms, what else can current rocket science do besides the hydrogen-oxygen version? Fluorine? Chelomey was still working on this, so it is generally worse than heptyl - pouring everything with hydrofluoric acid. Just imagine the saliva of a monster from the "Alien", which burns everything on its way on the scale of the "Proton". Horror!

[sledgehammer102]

Quote: avt

Well, present-day Russia does not have a space program equal to that of the USSR.

Someone who is going to fly to the moon in the next decade and to Mars years through 20-30.

Quote: avt

. Well, we won’t draw out the whole space center as in the USSR.

How to understand do not stretch? Eyes are afraid, but hands are doing, in 2008 many said that we and Sochi would not stretch out, and in general, we won’t finish the Nord Stream, or, for example, we won’t create a new launch vehicle ... but things were going quietly and the results were obvious.


Well, and as a result of everything, this is the situation with the Sevastopol and us of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. During the times of the USSR, there was no sense in building the same base in Novorossiysk, however, how did it end we know what to talk about the CIS now. Moreover, the Kazakhs do not have a map of Baikonur, but they stick it out.

[avt]

Quote: sledgehammer102

How to understand do not stretch? The eyes are afraid, but the hands are doing

Yeah, "I don't care what, but it's beautiful." In general, at least once were on the site in Tyr? Or so, indulge in leavened patriotism. I also prefer kvass and do not drink different colas, but my head is not only a mouth with an overpass to my stomach and not a bone, there is a brain. The cosmodrome is quite thought out for the future, a utilitarian thing, that is, not for holding competitions in general, but a specific object for specific tasks. Here is the Eastern one - it is clear why they do it, why and how they did it in Tyuratam, each who was there in general terms has a notion. And builds pyramids, just because in Egypt there is, and we do not have - the height of idiocy, as well as flying to the moon and further on chemical rockets of the times of Brown and the Queen - money down the drain. with the Chinese, who use our technologies, and not all of them, since the 80s? The race who is the first to fly into space has long ended and the result is known.

[muks]

Not "hydrofluoric acid", but liquid fluorine and borohydride. Of all types of rocket fuel, this is the most effective, because the flow rate is more than 7 kilometers per second. Practical use is impractical due to the impossibility of storing components. And the cost ...

[Ivan Petrovich]

there are a lot of hamsters from the pedr. They’re not used to thinking

[razgibatel]

The whole question is how much more time Nazarbayev N.A. wants to be the head of Kazakhstan. After his departure, the division will begin. Nazarbayev is from the middle zhuz. There, so almost everything is sold to the Chinese, and after N.A. Nazarbayev and Baikonur leave, the same fate. Oh cosmodrome oh as needed.

[Ivan Petrovich]

there is clearly a lack of a chief specialist on all issues "modera romanov"

[Takashi]

"then about 15000 builders, engineers and other qualified specialists are needed to complete the tasks in the specified time period."

already without Russians there is a lot of churkestan ready to take on any work.

[Gomunkul]

Informative article. The author asks himself:

Will Russia need two almost equivalent cosmodromes (talking about Vostochny and Baikonur)?

And he answers:

However, some tectonic processes in the political life of other neighboring states allow us to reflect on the fact that with any tight partnership, your own shirt is still closer to the body.

I think it makes no sense to explain how property differs from rent?

[parusnik]

Dmitry Rogozin says that if today no more than 5300 people are involved in the implementation of the project, then about 15000 builders, engineers and other qualified specialists are needed to complete the tasks in the indicated period of time.
Here it is necessary, but Dimka Medvedev, gathered to relocate people from the Far East, from unpromising cities and towns ..

[saag]

ShturmKGB

I do not think that Vostochny will be brought to the level of Baikonur at least in the next 10 years, so Baikonur will be in demand for a long time.

I watched a film about the builders of the cosmodrome in Kura, and so they said that if they supplied them with normal construction materials, they would build a cosmodrome after 9 for a month, and they had to do alterations on the spot, so they built for 4 of the year

[Lindon]

Quote: saag

ShturmKGB

I do not think that Vostochny will be brought to the level of Baikonur at least in the next 10 years, so Baikonur will be in demand for a long time.

I watched a film about the builders of the cosmodrome in Kura, and so they said that if they supplied them with normal construction materials, they would build a cosmodrome after 9 for a month, and they had to do alterations on the spot, so they built for 4 of the year

ShturmKGB probably emphasized the difference in the number of starts between spaceports, and not the timing. We already wrote above that Russia does not need a spaceport of the USSR scale.
The USSR began to cost Baikonur 1955 year - the first LUCKY start was already 1957 year. The East did not even dream of such a time. The French did not build railway infrastructure in the bare steppe, but immediately brought and assembled the ready LEGO.

[Garysit]

During the post-Soviet period, the infrastructure of test site No. 5 in Tyuratam, or as it is now called the Baikonur cosmodrome, has undergone severe degradation. There are only a few launch sites left for Soyuz and Proton and the structures that support them. Compared to what it was - a tenth. This cannot be raised economically. During the Soviet era, 3 billion rubles were spent. dollars for construction. How much do you need now ???? Now - 1 billion for rent !!!! Nobody will restore it, it's easier to build a new one on your own territory .. And the place there was chosen primarily because of the imperfection of flight control systems and its tracking by telemetric measuring points located 300-400 km from the start.

[grizli7747]

Baikonur cannot launch new types of missiles. Question: on a fig, to upgrade a cosmodrome for someone else’s uncle, especially if it doesn’t always allow us to launch and break contracts for us ??? Clean economy.

[Zabvo]

As a resident of the Amur Region, I will tell you one thing, except for the hydroelectric power station in my city and Vostochny there are no normal enterprises. I am only for "Vostochny", they are actually creating a whole city there. As a resident of the Far East, it is funny for me to hear about the threat of China.

[avt]

Quote: ZABVO

apart from the hydroelectric power station, we have no normal enterprises in my city and Vostochny. I am only for "Vostochny", they are actually creating a whole city there.

Well that's good . But the cosmodrome alone will not stretch the whole edge, even if it is expanded to the size of Baikonur. Here, like the Russian Railways, it started stirring up projects for the modernization and construction of transport infrastructure - there was a serious meeting the other day, and this is a real impetus to the development of the Far East as a whole, without railways you won’t expand there on a large scale, again, an increase in the number of jobs and housing on an ongoing basis, we would still like to launch transit through both Koreas.

[studentmati]

Quote: ZABVO

About the threat of China to me as a resident of the Far East is funny to hear.

Why is it funny? In my opinion, the proximity of the border with any state should be alarming. We perfectly see how transiently seemingly unshakable principles change. For me, for example, 30 years ago, the thought of the collapse of the USSR would have been delusional. Last year, the current development of events in Ukraine seemed the same incredible. The world is fleeting, but a person continues to think that he is eternal ...

[Refugee from Kazakhstan]

The main thing is not to let such construction as Kolya stool

[Metal]

I am one of the designers of the Mobile Service Tower (MBO) for the Soyuz-2 rocket. We have completed the MBO, moreover, the metal structures of the MBO have already been made, they are lying and waiting in the wings. For reference: The Mobile Service Tower is required to prepare the rocket for launch. It is a rail-mounted metal tower with huge doors. There are very few analogues in the world. Thus, the Vostochny cosmodrome will have the most modern infrastructure. I hope that we will succeed, and we will conquer space from our cosmodrome.

[studentmati]

Quote: Metall

I am one of the designers of the Mobile Service Tower (MBO) for the Soyuz-2 rocket ... It is a metal tower on a rail track with huge wings.

I understand that Russia is moving to the assembly and export of the rocket to the table in an upright position?

[muks]

Excellent - God grant health! It’s strange to me somehow ... Nobody pays any attention to the fact that the East is much closer and FASTER to whom?

[Arkan]

Article plus. The author correctly conveyed the idea that cooperation is more beneficial than confrontation.

[Blind]

Quote: sledgehammer102

Quote: avt

Well, present-day Russia does not have a space program equal to that of the USSR.

Someone who is going to fly to the moon in the next decade and to Mars years through 20-30.

let's take off the pink glasses, right? For 23 years, Russia has not been able to successfully implement ANY project even with automatic interplanetary stations. who and where will fly in this situation in the next 10 or 20 years? I suspect that our money will fly .. into the pipe.

[avt]

Quote: Blind

For 23 years, Russia has not been able to successfully implement ANY project even with automatic interplanetary stations. to

And not surprising. There were failures both during the Soviet era and according to the lunar program, when they threw soil to drill on Venus - there were a lot of jambs, but Mars was actually some kind of magician. But then, even though there was a System, but it was torn into ribbons for national peakless caps, but instead of ministers like Afanasyev and designers of the scale of the King, Chelomey, Glushko and their associates, "effective managers" Why wait for that? Words to God and to people that remained in production - they did not burn everything to the ground. Now, with the help of Vostochny and on the old Soviet reserve of Baikonur, we will restore the orbital group. We naturally do not consider the military component with regards to strategists, we are talking, so to speak, about "dual-use" devices. Naturally, we maintain at the old level, plus R&D, manned, orbital cosmonautics. BUT! This is maintaining our level with the help of old modernized elements technologies, including the training of technical personnel of all levels. For what we now call "Deep Space" we need technical solutions based on technologies of fundamentally different physical properties! And here we need people of the scale of the King, Chelomey and not a manager, but organizers of the level of Ustinov.

[homosum20]

"... rugor SU Today, 08:35 New
Not an overly informative article. "
Husky, husky.
Friendship between nations is all the stronger when one of the peoples clearly understands that they can be sent to er at any second. Then there will be no reason to send.

[Dikson]

Actually, Rogozin voiced the same in an interview: we mastered the Olympics, now the main construction project in Russia is Vostochny! Any questions? Here, it is true, Crimea must be reunited, but I think that among our oligarchs, an agreement will quickly be worked out on investments in our newly annexed land ...

[Gagarin]

I am not a specialist in cosmonautics, somehow I don’t understand why not develop the Burlak Chelomey system? Then, in general, giant cosmodromes are useless. Mriya or Ruslan dispersed the body and "let it go" towards space already at a great height, from almost any large airfield.
But I can’t even think about the strategic security of such an astronautics.
Strange.

[duchy]

It’s interesting, how will these third parties compensate for the damage caused by rockets that fell off a fragment, and do they fall in our zone of Altai, Khakassia, Tyva and beyond? Personally, I don’t want someone else’s to fall on our heads and on our land. Close Baikonur for starts to make a museum out of it.

[waisson]

I personally for the construction of the East, and then in Ukraine, the Americans settle down to climb into Kazakhstan

[scientist]

The Vostochny cosmodrome, if it can completely replace Baikonur, it will not be soon. Investing money in Baikonur without a normal space program is, in my opinion, stupid. Kazakhstan does not have its own needs to launch a large number of vehicles and somehow does not strive to participate in international projects, there they do not give kickbacks to corrupt officials. At one time, Russia even offered KazCosmos a partnership in the Glonass project. But Musabaev, as well as his curators, are still those types! There were more than enough ideas and proposals for the development of Kazakh-Russian cooperation for 10 years of the work of the state program for the development of the space industry of the Republic of Kazakhstan, but they all ran up against an insurmountable wall. President Nazarbayev is, of course, a respected and influential politician, but the forces that prevent the penetration of high-tech technologies into Kazakhstan, especially missile technologies, have much more influence than the President. And these third forces have Baikonur as a "thorn in the eye". After all, this is a symbol of Victory and the superiority of Soviet science, the time when we were one people! Therefore, preserving this symbol is a matter of honor for the peoples of Russia and Kazakhstan.

[muks]

As soon as Vostochny has the opportunity to fully work, in no case should Baikonur be left in an WORKING CONDITION. "The symbol of Victory and the superiority of Soviet science" was when RUSSIAN was the Second Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Kazakhstan. There has always been RUSSIAN, as well as in other "fraternal" republics. "President Nazarbayev .... DEAR (and who respects him ???) and an influential POLITICIAN", who, nevertheless, can not cope with the forces ??? hindering the penetration of Kazakhstan of high-tech technologies - it's not true, in every yurt there is a primus! RUSSIANS have never been a single people with Kazakhstan! BAIKONUR after the departure of RUSSIA will be brought to the necessary condition for RUSSIA. And there will be a Kazakh disco, horse races and climbing the starting towers (instead of a washed log) for boots! The former republics have stolen everything SOVIET, and even though you do what you want with them, they will not give you good, because it was on theft that millionaires appeared: both in Kazakhstan and in others ...

[Alex]

It’s necessary to have a national spaceport. Baikonur is certainly good, but we will be there as eternal hostages, depending on the political and economic ambitions of local leaders. Now Putin has a good relationship with Nazarbayev, and who can predict what will happen in the future? After all, Nazarbayev is not eternal. Who will replace him? A few years ago, what was happening in Ukraine and in a nightmare would not have been dreamed of. Who can guarantee that something like this will not happen in Kazakhstan?

[akv0571]

As a resident of Blagoveshchensk, I worry about the environment. When they were planning to build a cosmodrome here, the people began to be indignant about heptyl. The authorities have promised that he will not be at all. Now they said that it will be at 3 steps and will not refuel it here. So there is no faith in the authorities. Moreover, those who will make a profit do not live here.

[polite people]

Unfortunately, they really do not save anything that was built by the Soviet Union. We need to build everything in Russia. The sad theory of experience.