Military Review

Universal star

85
One of the main "stars" ended the other day 8-th International Exhibition of Land and Naval Armaments Defexpo India 2014 (New Delhi, India) was the unique Russian automatic gearbox. It shoots equally well both on land and under water. In no other country, except Russia, there is even nothing close.


Universal star


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The most effective means of dealing with the enemy under water is a knife. However, throughout the 20 century, gunsmiths from all over the world tried to adapt projectiles to work underwater. weapon. At the same time, Western arms companies rather quickly abandoned the idea of ​​using firearms in an underwater fight, concentrating on developing all kinds of mechanical harpoons, which were either set in motion by compressed air or were underwater crossbows. Further, perhaps, only the German company Heckler und Koch, which developed in 70-ies of the last century, the P11 five-pistol caliber 7,62 mm, advanced. He quite effectively shot under water at a distance of up to 15 meters, on the air - up to 30 meters, so this gun quickly became the standard weapon of submarine combat swimmers of the armed forces of Germany, Norway, Great Britain, Italy, the United States and other countries that were opposing the Soviet Union at that moment . At the same time, electric current was used to ignite Р11 cartridges (two mini-accumulators of 9 volts were placed in the sealed pistol grip).

Soviet gunsmiths were more insistent. By 1975, they had developed both an underwater gun (SPP-1) and a special underwater submachine gun (APS-5), which are still the standard armament of combat swimmers' units of the Russian Armed Forces. For that time, these were revolutionary products. The bullet fired from the SPP kept its destructive power under water up to 17 meters, and from the MPS-5 it was possible to hit an underwater target located in 25 meters from the shooter.

However, during the operation of the APS-5, it showed serious shortcomings. The main one is low survivability. In accordance with the specifications, the machine gun was designed for 2 thousand shots under water and only 180 shots on land. “The fact is that the form of the 5,66-mm cartridge, powder charge, the ballistics of the bullet flight, the operation of the automation are designed for normal functioning only under water. When the shooter comes to the land, water flows out of the receiver of the machine gun. When firing in "unusual" conditions, the slide frame moves much faster, and the receiver simply does not withstand increased loads. Approximately it is just enough for 180 shots, ”the doctor of technical sciences, professor Yury Danilov explained to journalists in due time. In addition, according to Professor Danilov, the APS-5 often “suffered” delays due to the fact that two or even three cartridges were often fed to his chamber. And it was impossible to attach any aiming devices and muzzle devices to it. Therefore, de facto combat swimmers had to duplicate the APS-5 with purely “ground” weapons - as a rule, with the AK-74М.

At the same time, both Russian and international experience in the use of marine special forces suggests that in 80-90% the fighters of these units perform tasks on land. Therefore, it became necessary to have a special multipurpose weapon in these units, which would work equally well in air and in aquatic environments. Moreover, in terms of shooting efficiency (accuracy, accuracy, armor penetration) such a machine on land would not be inferior to X-NUMX-mm AK-5,45, AK-74, and under water - 105-mm APS. And such weapons were created by specialists of the Tula Instrument Engineering Design Bureau (Tula KBP).

From two sides

Specialists of the Tula KBP approached the problem of creating a new two-medium automaton from two sides. On the one hand, since then, a new cartridge of the caliber 5.45 has been created, which could be effectively used under water. He received the name 5.45 PSP (special underwater cartridge). At the same time, the designers were given the task of putting new ammunition for underwater combat into the regular shop of the machine for land firing. Because the APS-5 used needle-shaped bullets with a length of more than 12 cm, which, when applied on land, were inconvenient and expensive.

“Many designers and testers of the branch of the Tula KBP, the Central Design Research Bureau of Sporting and Hunting Weapons (TsKIB SOOO), who have already had experience in finalizing the well-known pistol cartridge and the pistol itself, took part in creating the new underwater patrons. Due to their successful work, the task was performed and a new underwater cartridge was developed. One of the main conditions for the development of a new cartridge was the condition to make a new cartridge in the dimensions of the standard 5,45 caliber automatic cartridge. To stabilize the flight of a shorter bullet in the water, a bullet design was implemented with a cavitator in the bow. The flat nose of a bullet creates around itself a cavitational cavity (air bubble). As a result, the fired bullet does not tumble in the water, but behaves steadily. Thus, a two-medium automaton in sushi conditions shoots regular 5.45 caliber cartridges, and the 5.45 PSP cartridges (special underwater cartridge) are used for water, ”says Nikolai Komarov, head of the foreign economic relations department of the Tula KBP branch — TsKIB SOOO.



In parallel with the creation of a new patron, at the end of the 90 of the last century, on the initiative of the famous designer Vasily Petrovich Griazev, work began on the creation of the machine gun itself. Initially, the Tula KBP developed it on its own initiative with its own funds. However, then the Russian Ministry of Defense joined the financing of these works, which issued an official order for the creation of a new unique machine gun for fighting in two environments, and for the development of special cartridges for it.

“It was a hard and painstaking job. It was based on a Kalashnikov assault rifle, or rather, three modifications of it. Until now, this machine has no analogues in the world for its reliability and ballistic characteristics. In developing the ADF, a bullpup arrangement was used, in which part of the barrel and the magazine are located behind the trigger mechanism, which made it possible to reduce the length of the weapon itself while maintaining the barrel length. This is a very important condition, as the movement, overcoming obstacles and the conduct of hostilities in the aquatic environment has special difficulties. It was necessary to reduce the size of the weapon and unload the fighter as much as possible. The design, types of coverage were changed, the air-to-water mode switch was introduced. The unique features of the two-medium ADS machine should also include the minimum gas content after the shot, which is achieved due to the fact that the sleeve flies forward at a small angle, and not to the side, as in the usual bullpup layout. The submachine gun assumes firing both from the right and from the left shoulder, without requiring additional reinstallation of the equipment. It is also equipped with special nozzles for low-noise shooting, a safety device and a built-in grenade launcher of a modular design with a gas engine. The Picatinny plate is brought upwards with rigid fastening and can be used as a handle for carrying weapons, ”Nikolai Komarov describes the new product.



For testing the design of ammunition and automaton in TsKIB SOOO was specially designed and installed in the test station test stand for shooting in water. For the past few years, prototypes of the new machine gun and cartridges have been tested in special military units in the North and the Far East of our country, on the Black Sea. Tests have shown that on land, the ADS is not inferior in its effectiveness to the standard AK-74 and AK-74U, and in the water it surpasses the automatic MPS. Therefore, in 2013, the ADF was adopted by the Russian Armed Forces. In addition to the machine itself, sea swimmers are waiting for new scuba diving equipment, breathing equipment, new diving suits, samples of which have also been tested in recent years.

It is assumed that, first of all, the ADF machine gun will be used in the units of the naval special forces. However, according to the developers, it aroused interest among representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB. The machine gun itself will apparently be produced by the Tula KBP itself, which was recently named after the famous Russian gunsmith Academician Arkady Georgievich Shipunov.

Help

The two-medium ADS complex is a universal weapon, providing for the first time the possibility of hitting the enemy, both on land with standard 5,45x39 mm cartridges and 40 mm grenade launchers, and underwater with special underwater cartridges. The use of ADF by special purpose fighters, combining the capabilities of standard and special underwater submachine guns, makes it possible to almost halve the weight of portable weapons.

The integrated grenade launcher for a caseless grenade greatly expands the fire capabilities of the weapon and surpasses breech-like counterparts in practical rate of fire. The layout of the bullpup ensured a reduction in the overall length of the weapon while maintaining its combat characteristics.

Reflection of a spent cartridge case makes it convenient to shoot from the right and left shoulders, and also reduces gas pollution in the area of ​​the shooter’s face. Increased combat readiness is provided by the presence of an automatic fuse. Closed receiver increases the reliability of the weapon in difficult conditions.

The ADF is equipped with a universal "picatinny" type bar for mounting various aiming devices. It can be completed with a low-noise firing device and a nozzle for single firing.
Author:
Originator:
http://expert.ru/2014/02/12/universalnaya-zvezda/?n=171
85 comments
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  1. mirag2
    mirag2 17 February 2014 08: 09
    +8
    Well, that's great.
    It is warming that only we have such a thing!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Hon
      Hon 17 February 2014 10: 29
      +10
      Quote: mirag2
      It is warming that only we have such a thing!

      Unfortunately, not for long, it was before when such things did not shine, we only had them, and now when copies were written about it on each fence, you won’t have to wait long.
      1. Bear52
        Bear52 18 February 2014 11: 41
        0
        Hon
        [quote = Hon] [quote = mirag2] and you won’t have to wait long for copies. [/ quote] - Probably, there’s a little sense in corroding. Not consumer goods, you won’t make money on it. Buy a hundred - another will come out cheaper. IMHO hi
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 17 February 2014 11: 59
      +4
      ADS
  2. umah
    umah 17 February 2014 08: 25
    +4
    Thank you for the article. Interesting and informative. "+"
  3. alekseyal
    17 February 2014 08: 27
    +3
    Interestingly, in our troops have already been adopted in service or not?
    The article says that it was already adopted in 2013.
  4. atalef
    atalef 17 February 2014 08: 45
    +1
    A wonderful thing, but you can talk about stardom only on the basis of the number of purchase contracts.
    Someone has information. what are they going to buy?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 17 February 2014 18: 24
      0
      Quote: atalef
      Someone has information. what are they going to buy?

      Even under Serdyukov there was an arms exhibition where representatives of the plant said that although the machine was adopted, they bought it in batches of a maximum of 5 pieces a year.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 17 February 2014 18: 26
        -8
        Quote: Bad_gr
        but they buy it in batches of a maximum of 5 pieces per year.

        Star, only a very small
        When Stalin first got into the Victory car, he barely squeezed himself into
        -No great victory laughing
        1. avt
          avt 17 February 2014 19: 00
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          When Stalin first got into the Victory car, he barely squeezed himself into
          -Not great victory laughing

          Anecdote. In reality, there were claims to the Moskvich with two doors.
    3. poquello
      poquello 17 February 2014 22: 30
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      A wonderful thing, but you can talk about stardom only on the basis of the number of purchase contracts.
      .

      You tell the Americans about the raptors.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 18
        +3
        Quote: poquello
        You tell the Americans about the raptors.

        Raptor for 200 pieces. This is currently the only fifth-generation large-scale aircraft that is already undergoing the first modernization. What exactly should they tell?
        1. poquello
          poquello 18 February 2014 14: 08
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          Quote: poquello
          You tell the Americans about the raptors.

          Raptor for 200 pieces. This is currently the only fifth-generation large-scale aircraft that is already undergoing the first modernization. What exactly should they tell?

          sold a lot?
        2. The comment was deleted.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. mihasik
      mihasik 18 February 2014 02: 05
      +4
      Shchaz!))) Read the article carefully. And the stardom will be checked by special forces in "games" with potential "partners"))
    6. poquello
      poquello 18 February 2014 14: 11
      +1
      Quote: atalef
      A wonderful thing, but you can talk about stardom only on the basis of the number of purchase contracts.
      Someone has information. what are they going to buy?

      but there is information that they began to sell?
      1. poquello
        poquello 19 February 2014 01: 08
        +1
        Quote: poquello
        Quote: atalef
        A wonderful thing, but you can talk about stardom only on the basis of the number of purchase contracts.
        Someone has information. what are they going to buy?

        but there is information that they began to sell?

        Gentlemen, quiet people, I actually asked. I see the cons, but there are no answers.
        1. papuasimus
          papuasimus 19 February 2014 11: 22
          +1
          This is not a hunting double-barreled shotgun, which is driven for export - they will put the neck and the sale (or rather delivery) will only be on the domestic market, to its fighters, so to speak.

          They will not ring the bell about the size of the deliveries and which addressees, but at the exhibitions they lit up more from a psychological point of view ("you poke your head around, you bastard, you know in advance with WHAT you, foe, will be met").

          As for the "copies", I suppose that the novelty has long been "hunted" by all possible espionage methods, just as ours in Afghanistan hunted for the "Stingers".
          1. Professor
            Professor 19 February 2014 11: 26
            +1
            Quote: papuasimus
            As for the "copies", I suppose that the novelty has long been "hunted" by all possible espionage methods, just as ours in Afghanistan hunted for the "Stingers".

            I like to laugh in the morning. laughing The submarine carries the same threat as Stinger once. wassat Thank you, let’s do it again. good
            1. poquello
              poquello 19 February 2014 16: 17
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              Quote: papuasimus
              As for the "copies", I suppose that the novelty has long been "hunted" by all possible espionage methods, just as ours in Afghanistan hunted for the "Stingers".

              I like to laugh in the morning. laughing The submarine carries the same threat as Stinger once. wassat Thank you, let’s do it again. good

              Laugh, laugh, you have no such close.
              "Well, your jellied fish is disgusting"
    7. The comment was deleted.
  5. Bongo
    Bongo 17 February 2014 08: 46
    +2
    Tests have shown that on land, the ADF is not inferior in its effectiveness to regular AK-74
    The machine is certainly wonderful, and what is called "unparalleled", but then the author grieved. The barrel length of the ADS in the photo is less than that of the AK-74; for firing under water, special weighted 5,45-mm PSP are used, which are effective "in the air" at short distances.
    The machine allows the firing of conventional cartridges of the caliber 5,45x39, for this it is necessary to switch the regulator of the vent mechanism.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 17 February 2014 09: 14
      +3
      Quote: Bongo
      The barrel length of the ADS in the photo is less than that of the AK-74,

      AK-74 and ADS have the same barrels - 415 mm. (as stated by the manufacturer)
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 17 February 2014 09: 20
        +5
        Same in this version, but not on the one presented in the article.
        1. avt
          avt 17 February 2014 09: 37
          +7
          Quote: Bongo
          but then the author made a mistake. The barrel length of the ADS in the photo is less than that of the AK-74,

          Quote: bazilio
          AK-74 and ADS have the same barrels - 415 mm. (as stated by the manufacturer)

          Quote: Bongo
          Same in this version, but not on the one presented in the article.

          So what is the contradiction? Work on the machine is not abandoned, finalized according to the test results. Cool thing!
          Quote: atalef
          but one can speak of stardom only on the basis of the number of purchase contracts.

          Well, if only about the "stardom" of the hucksters, that competitors are in every way, and they clean up and sniff their goods no matter what, again, through Hollywood, they promote themselves to the cinema as the most. rub in about the fact that, for example, T72 is a slightly painted T34.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 17 February 2014 18: 20
      +7
      Quote: Bongo
      but then the author made a mistake. The barrel length of the ADS in the photo is less than that of the AK-74

      This assault rifle was not created on the basis of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, but on the basis of the A-91 assault rifle, designed by V.P. Gryazev, and it was originally created as a bulpap.
      The trunk there is not shortened, but full.

      And he does not reflect the sleeve forward, and pushes forward along the tube that ends almost at the level of the front sight. One of the advantages of this solution: the gases from the automatic mechanism do not exit at the shooter's face, but in the same place as the ejection of the cartridge case (in the area of ​​the front sight)
    3. Danash I
      Danash I 17 February 2014 19: 26
      +2
      Sorry, move in. The length from the magazine to the barrel and the size of the palm of the shooter (rather big) give no less than the declared, or even a little more. If the pitch of the rifling is changed then for the air it’s not bad, but the underwater environment requires a completely different approach.
  6. rereture
    rereture 17 February 2014 08: 59
    +3
    This machine seems to have been adopted last year
  7. bazilio
    bazilio 17 February 2014 09: 17
    +1
    Very interesting trunk.
    Recently there was already an article about ADS. I hope do without holivarov
  8. Bongo
    Bongo 17 February 2014 09: 42
    +2
    Quote: avt
    So what is the contradiction? Work on the machine is not abandoned, finalized according to the test results. Cool thing!

    Am I arguing with that? The contradiction is that the "short" barrel physically cannot be as effective as the "long" one. It would be worth noting this in the article.
  9. Alexander.B
    Alexander.B 17 February 2014 10: 20
    +3
    It would be interesting to look at the results of the shooting. In my opinion, this is the most important.
    1. papuasimus
      papuasimus 19 February 2014 11: 27
      +1
      I doubt that the results will be openly published and shown. Rather, they will declare the firing done, period.
  10. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 17 February 2014 10: 37
    -16%
    One of the main "stars"


    A star with ergonomics at the level of the 70s of the 20th century, yes, wonderful things are your Lord.
    1. avt
      avt 17 February 2014 11: 03
      +9
      Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
      A star with ergonomics at the level of the 70s of the 20th century, yes, wonderful things are your Lord.

      What is the essence of this magic word "ergonomics" in relation to this sample? The designer did not work on the pleasingness of the eye? Even on the "most authoritative" TV show "Discovery" one amersky pepper from the former Vietnamese times simply said - when you put it on, you will only think about the reliability of the weapon.
      Quote: Alexander.B
      It would be interesting to look at the results of the shooting. In my opinion, this is the most important.

      good And that would be simple and artsy in the manufacture was. What our design school is actually famous for and Gryazev Shipunov in particular, weapons for the war were created and are created, not glamorous patterns for airsoft. Here, the quality of workmanship would be pulled up to the Swiss level, like they do watches, so there would have been a hurricane rather than the machine.
      1. rolik
        rolik 17 February 2014 13: 08
        +3
        Quote: avt
        And that would be simple and artsy in the manufacture was.

        No no no, well, what YOU)))) you need to hang more plastic, so that it was like in Tavor. Then give the rights to the product to the inventors of the "best" automatic machine in the world. Only then will it become a real hit))))
        1. avt
          avt 17 February 2014 13: 32
          +1
          Quote: rolik
          Not no, well, YOU)))) you need to hang more plastic to make it look like in Tavor.

          Yeah, moan about something that isn’t, like on advanced, new, ergonomic samples, a 20mm grenade launcher. Although initially its Tulaks were represented as a rifle grenade launcher complex.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 17 February 2014 14: 49
        -5
        Quote: avt
        What is the essence of this magic word "ergonomics" in relation to this sample? The designer did not work on the pleasantness of the eye? "Wild, crooked hands" made a non-working sample?

        Ergonomics are not pleasing to the eye.
      3. SIT
        SIT 17 February 2014 15: 53
        0
        Quote: avt
        What is the essence of this magic word "ergonomics" in relation to this sample? The designer did not work on the pleasantness of the eye?

        What year's ergonomics on this machine is probably really not so important. But the usefulness of the form under water is really important. The environment is still denser and it is more difficult to move around. Especially when it happens in rather muddy water littered with all crap. I would lick the carrying handle with plastic in front and make the front sight more streamlined so that I would not cling tightly to obstacles. Well, the store also needs to be done somehow differently; it sticks out like a hook. God forbid, what thread ends the end of the cable between the handle and the magazine, you are tormented to think in muddy water that does not let it go.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 February 2014 15: 56
          0
          Quote: SIT
          I would lick the carrying handle with plastic in front and make the front sight more streamlined so that I would not cling tightly to obstacles.

          Quote: SIT
          Especially when it happens in rather muddy water littered with all crap

          Tell me why streamlined fly in cluttered muddy water. Can you imagine aiming underwater laughing
          1. SIT
            SIT 17 February 2014 16: 21
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            Tell me why streamlined fly in cluttered muddy water. Can you imagine aiming underwater

            So from it then and on land to shoot. You can just remove it and replace it with a standard collimator. If without a collimator, how do you imagine aimed fire in the air without a fly !?
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            2. atalef
              atalef 17 February 2014 16: 27
              -10%
              Quote: SIT
              So from it then and on land to shoot. You can just remove it and replace it with a standard collimator. If without a collimator, how do you imagine aimed fire in the air without a front sight

              So I say. Well, why the hell ass harmony. At sea there is sense from him - yes, the probability of use is almost zero. Well, on land - the probability of use is great - but like an automaton - well, in general, not a calimator. not comfortable
              In general, it's like a microwave with a grill. As a result, neither a grill nor a microwave.
              1. SIT
                SIT 17 February 2014 16: 37
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                So I say. Well, why the hell ass harmony. At sea there is sense from him - yes, the probability of use is almost zero. Well, on land - the probability of use is great - but like an automaton - well, in general, not a calimator. not convenient In general, it's like a microwave with a grill. As a result, neither a grill nor a microwave.

                Put the collimator in a streamlined casing of a plastic-lined pen. Not a hell and a problem. With the same barrel length and a balanced line-up on land, the ADS would shoot no worse than the AK74, and maybe even better because of the better overall balance of the weapon.
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      5. papuasimus
        papuasimus 19 February 2014 11: 29
        0
        Qualitatively, they can and do.
    2. Hon
      Hon 17 February 2014 14: 00
      +6
      And from modern ergonomic designs, whoever can shoot underwater? As Sharik from Prostokvashino bought sneakers instead of felt boots, they speak more beautifully))
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Assistant
      Assistant 17 February 2014 23: 55
      +2
      A star with ergonomics at the level of the 70s of the 20th century


      Tell me, please, the withdrawal of spent cartridges forward is ergonomics of the 70s of the 20th century?
  11. Professor
    Professor 17 February 2014 11: 15
    -7
    One of the main "stars" ended the other day 8-th International Exhibition of Land and Naval Armaments Defexpo India 2014 (New Delhi, India) was the unique Russian automatic gearbox.

    Well at least they took in quotation marks. Google about the exhibition, how it was lit and you will understand that this machine was far from a star there.
    1. Mister X
      Mister X 17 February 2014 13: 46
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      Well at least they took in quotation marks. Google about the exhibition, how it was lit and you will understand that this machine was far from a star there.

      hi
      When designing the KBP exhibition booth, an original technique was used: the exhibition model of the ADF machine, in order to emphasize its uniqueness and specifics of application, was placed in the illuminated aquarium with water for the entire duration of the exhibition, which caused great interest to visitors of the exhibition - such a form for submitting new developments not seen yet.
      Thanks to this know-how, the stand also enjoyed special attention from representatives of Russian and foreign media.
      In the news stories of all the leading television channels about the Interpolitex 2013 exhibition (and there were more than a dozen of them visited), there were invariably footage of our exposure and the floating machine.
      Viewers, seeing these videos, went to the KBP booth at the exhibition to see this sample.
      Taken from the official website http://www.kbptula.ru
      About Defexpo India 2014 did not write anything ...
      1. Mister X
        Mister X 17 February 2014 14: 06
        +3
        Whatever you say, but on the cover of National Defense magazine there is a combat swimmer with ADF ...

    2. Hon
      Hon 17 February 2014 13: 53
      +3
      Quote: Professor
      Well at least they took in quotation marks. Google about the exhibition, how it was lit and you will understand that this machine was far from a star there.

      And who else still has a double-welded machine? Or at least an underwater machine, just not a Chinese copy of ours.
      1. Professor
        Professor 17 February 2014 14: 38
        -14%
        Quote: Hon
        And who else still has a double-welded machine? Or at least an underwater machine, just not a Chinese copy of ours.

        Does anyone have a machine with an MP3 player? wink
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        2. Hon
          Hon 17 February 2014 15: 09
          +8
          Quote: Professor
          Does anyone have a machine with an MP3 player?

          Like nafig do not need a deuterium machine? And combat swimmers with me and two trunks I drag. In fact, this device is vital. Ball he is a star or not, but today he has no alternative.
          1. Professor
            Professor 17 February 2014 15: 13
            -6
            Quote: Hon
            Like nafig do not need a deuterium machine? And combat swimmers with me and two trunks I drag.

            And what about the machine with a built-in navigator and walkie-talkie. And then the fighters have to carry both an automatic machine and a navigator and a walkie-talkie. wink

            Quote: Hon
            Ball he is a star or not, but today he has no alternative.

            A machine with a built-in sapper shovel will also have no alternatives. wassat

            PS
            Meanwhile, the bourgeois combat swimmers:
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. atalef
              atalef 17 February 2014 15: 20
              -4
              Quote: Hon
              And combat swimmers with me and two trunks I drag. In fact, this device is vital

              Leave your tales. The probability of a collision between combat swimmers under water is tending to zero, and the implementation of anti-reverse measures by ships (such as pulse stations) will not allow anyone to approach them.
              By and large, this machine is not needed. because even with my short service. All the same, talking with instructors asked. But why this APS, is there a chance of sitting under water in an ambush? On what, in general, except for laughter, they did not hear anything.
              I say it again. the machine is beautiful. but its application is practically zero (under water)
              I am not talking about a restriction in visibility. to reduce the range of destruction (depending on the depth of the dive) and in general you can shoot only leaning against something, or rather, standing on your knees at the bottom (otherwise just stupidly somersaults after the first shot) and shoot something to your partner.
              Therefore, moderate the ardor.
              1. Hon
                Hon 17 February 2014 15: 35
                +3
                Then why do we need P11? There are no probabilities to encounter fighting animals either? Such a dolphin with a surprise. In addition, you can never be sure of what kind of situation could be.
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                2. atalef
                  atalef 17 February 2014 18: 30
                  -6
                  Quote: Hon
                  Then why do we need P11

                  What is this? Same star?
                  1. Hon
                    Hon 18 February 2014 08: 55
                    0
                    Quote: atalef
                    What is this? Same star?

                    Hexler and Koch double-handed pistol, adopted by the military swimmers of countries such as Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Britain, the United States and others.
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              3. dustycat
                dustycat 17 February 2014 17: 47
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                Leave your tales. The probability of a collision under water combat swimmers - to approach zero

                ..particularly with anti-sabotage operations in ports and raids ..

                But for those swimmers, at least to some of them, not on camera, but in real life would it occur to press the trigger without pulling the shutter and not shaking the water out of the trunk? Well really?
                And with ADF it is possible. And the shutter will not fly into the eye.
                And ksatati, the soldiers on the sleeve are also not a navigator, but simply a compass with an integrated watch. And maybe a Seagull plant.
                GPS, for some reason, it does not work very well under water.
            3. Hon
              Hon 17 February 2014 15: 28
              +8
              Quote: Professor
              And what about the machine with a built-in navigator and walkie-talkie. And then the fighters have to carry both an automatic machine and a navigator and a walkie-talkie.

              You simply do not have normal arguments and you begin to carry nonsense. Fighters use means for underwater shooting, as well as conventional small arms, before they had to take two machine guns, now you can do one without loss of effectiveness. In addition, shops for underwater automatic machines were not very convenient before; now you can use a regular store from AK74. It seems like the Jews are crucified most of all about the need for unification.
              Quote: Professor
              Meanwhile, bourgeois combat swimmers

              use P11


              PS can combine walkie-talkie and navigator. For example, I have a smart device that combines a navigator, a phone, a camera, a guide, a notebook, a calendar, an alarm clock, a directory, and partially computer functions. it's much more convenient than carrying a dick cloud of gadgets on yourself.
              1. Professor
                Professor 17 February 2014 15: 32
                -6
                Quote: Hon
                You simply do not have normal arguments and you begin to carry nonsense.

                Last week, this topic was already sucked. Seriously, this machine can fill a minuscule (tending to zero) niche and no more. From an economic point of view, he NEVER recoup himself.

                Quote: Hon
                It seems like the Jews are crucified most of all about the need for unification.

                And therefore they use the Kalashnikovs. wink

                1. Hon
                  Hon 17 February 2014 15: 44
                  +3
                  Quote: Professor
                  Last week, this topic was already sucked.

                  With combat swimmers? In fact, the order for this unit came from them.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Seriously, this machine can fill a minuscule (tending to zero) niche and no more. From an economic point of view, he NEVER recoup himself.

                  This is a special weapon designed for a small part of the commando. You belong to weapons, as if you were planning to sell your assault rifle, now I remember all the jokes about the Jews. The purchase of several thousand samples is painless for the military budget of any country.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 17 February 2014 15: 50
                    -5
                    Quote: Hon
                    This is a special weapon designed for a small part of the commando.

                    Like last week, I propose to be patient and follow the fate of this machine. hi
                    1. poquello
                      poquello 17 February 2014 22: 56
                      +2
                      Quote: Professor
                      Quote: Hon
                      This is a special weapon designed for a small part of the commando.

                      Like last week, I propose to be patient and follow the fate of this machine. hi

                      Your only common thought on the topic, but you can not follow. It will give our water a tangible advantage in the event of a collision, for the rest it’s a matter of taste - even if they are swimming naked.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 19
                        -2
                        Quote: poquello
                        Your only common thought on the topic, but you can not follow. It will give our water a tangible advantage in the event of a collision, for the rest it’s a matter of taste - even if they are swimming naked.

                        Which and before what?
                      2. poquello
                        poquello 18 February 2014 14: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Quote: poquello
                        Your only common thought on the topic, but you can not follow. It will give our water a tangible advantage in the event of a collision, for the rest it’s a matter of taste - even if they are swimming naked.

                        Which and before what?

                        With what they will sail, before it will be, others do not have a submarine, by the way they write on land by accuracy at the level of m16
                  2. The comment was deleted.
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              3. neri73-r
                neri73-r 17 February 2014 17: 42
                +5
                From an economic point of view, he NEVER recoup himself.


                Professor, WE DO NOT trade, we defend the Motherland !!! Everyone understands that this is not a mass weapon and this AK assault rifle will not replace !!! It is needed for special units in limited quantities !!! tongue

                And in general, what kind of communication do you have for you, about one thing, you immediately about the other, about Thomas, you, without answering the arguments, about Yerema ??? If there are no counter arguments, admit it - this is not shameful! hi
                1. Professor
                  Professor 17 February 2014 22: 16
                  -2
                  Quote: neri73-r
                  Professor, WE DO NOT trade, we defend the Motherland !!!

                  Russia in terms of arms sales is in the second place in the world. Is this not a trade? wink I will not list the names of weapons which are not enough in the Russian army and despite this they are sold over a hill.
                2. Atlas
                  Atlas 18 February 2014 13: 58
                  +1
                  Do not boil, they are just such a people - the main thing is to earn money))))
              4. dustycat
                dustycat 17 February 2014 17: 59
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                Seriously, this machine can fill a minuscule (tending to zero) niche


                Well, in the purely two-medium version, it is not interesting to a larger number of consumers.

                But as a domestic compact machine for special operations, including instead of a less suitable AKSU for crews of different equipment, this is quite a product for itself.
                For example, in a simplified form, purely for sushi.
                Instead, for example, more expensive kehlerkokh.
                Even under the same cartridge can be made.
                And even interchangeable trunks can be muddied.

                Here's another if you think of it in the saiga version run ...
                I would definitely buy it. It is a pity only according to our law on weapons, it will be with a monstrously long barrel.
              5. Shur
                Shur 19 February 2014 00: 48
                0
                The rest see how suckers use

                "Fighters of the Comsubin squad are armed with assault rifles" Beretta "SC70, submachine guns MP-5 of various modifications and" Beretta "PM12, pistols" Beretta "92SB, as well as underwater pistols P11... If necessary, they can use other weapons, such as M16, G3 rifles, FN Minimi machine guns or M3. "
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Pimply
            Pimply 17 February 2014 17: 08
            -3
            Shawet, as I recall, AK uses extremely rarely now
            1. MACCABI TLV
              MACCABI TLV 18 February 2014 11: 21
              0
              looking in which direction to use. Where the prevailing caliber 5.45 take AK, where 5.56 M4.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          4. Anat1974
            Anat1974 17 February 2014 22: 33
            +1
            The 2nd bourgeois with a machine gun suspiciously similar to Kalash.
            1. Professor
              Professor 17 February 2014 22: 35
              0
              Quote: Anat1974
              The 2nd bourgeois with a machine gun suspiciously similar to Kalash.

              This is he, darling. wink
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 20
              0
              Quote: Anat1974
              The 2nd bourgeois with a machine gun suspiciously similar to Kalash.

              They are. Israeli special forces from the 13th flotilla
          5. Shur
            Shur 19 February 2014 00: 39
            0
            Behind not AK? If so, then everything is fine ...
      2. SIT
        SIT 17 February 2014 15: 18
        +5
        Quote: Professor
        Does anyone have a machine with an MP3 player?

        I assure you that you won’t even remember about the player when nose-to-nose encounter under water with PDSS, but you’ll regret for sure that you basically only have a single-shot crossbow. If they cover it when going ashore, then this is of course the end, but switching the gas system to a different mode is still faster than looking somewhere behind, then shooting on land. Maybe lucky to stretch out longer.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 17 February 2014 15: 33
          -5
          Quote: SIT
          You don’t even remember when nose to nose collide under water with PDSS

          It is necessary to try. I would even say, well, really try. With visibility (at 10-15 m depth) in the Baltic Sea - 10-15 m at best. and at 30 somewhere around 5. It's like in a lottery. If you collide, then you are not just a loser. but a complete loser. Better to kill yourself.
          Quote: SIT
          but about the fact that you essentially only have a single-shot crossbow, you will regret it for sure

          In general, a four-shot pistol should be enough. Or do you think underwater shootouts are arranged in bursts?
          Quote: SIT
          If they cover it when going ashore, then this is of course the end, but switching the gas system to a different mode is still faster than finding something somewhere behind, than shooting on land

          Generally . once (they told me this was before my call) so by mistake one of the ships switched on a pulse station (giving an impulse to the water) despite the flag (a diver works) - so the whole group jumped to the surface and started to run on the fins in the water
          In general, all this is not easy, it is not necessary to track anyone under water. There are much simpler and more effective anti-sabotage methods than plowing with a water gun. suddenly you stumble upon and of course shoot.
          1. SIT
            SIT 17 February 2014 16: 17
            +5
            Quote: atalef
            With visibility (at 10-15 m depth) in the Baltic Sea - 10-15 m at best. and at 30 somewhere around 5

            But in the Strait of Hormuz at a depth of sediment supertanker horizontal visibility of up to 30m.
            Quote: atalef
            Generally . once (they told me this was before my call) so by mistake one of the ships switched on a pulse station (giving an impulse to the water) despite the flag (a diver works) - so the whole group jumped to the surface and started to run on the fins in the water

            There are situations when all sorts of bells and whistles, starting from the impulse station you mentioned and ending with depth charges, are not assigned to an object by status. Otherwise, it will turn out like in a joke about a peaceful Soviet tractor on the Chinese border. But those who want to sink to the bottom of this object are definitely there and not enough. Therefore, it is necessary to protect it, but only quietly and decently it is not so that the sentinels once an hour go round the sides and throw grenades overboard, from the explosions of which the portraits and landscapes in the company's cabin fall from bulkheads both at the facility and on all surrounding vessels. Of course, there are trained marine animals, but there will be people on the near approaches who are not just watching beautiful fish there. Now, if they only have 4-pistol guns, and their opponents have these guns, then the lens can well go to the ground.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. atalef
              atalef 17 February 2014 16: 37
              -1
              Quote: SIT
              But in the Strait of Hormuz at a depth of sediment supertanker horizontal visibility of up to 30m

              This tanker will turn on the anti-sabotage station and will periodically throw hand grenades from it (although there will be enough stations) and then water transparency will not play a role since you will jump out of the water and during a speeding run in fins along the wake trail. you will be shot from a slingshot
              Quote: SIT
              There are situations when all sorts of bells and whistles, starting from the impulse station you mentioned and ending with depth charges, are not assigned to an object by status.

              Of course, when it comes to a fishing boat. They are on all warships, but a tanker from and Somali pirates capture. and usually barefoot. For this saboteurs are not needed

              Quote: SIT
              Therefore, it is necessary to protect it, but only quietly and decently it is not so that the sentinels once an hour go round the sides and throw grenades overboard, from the explosions of which the portraits and landscapes in the company's cabin fall from bulkheads both at the facility and on all surrounding vessels

              Yes, but why the machine? Or are we returning to children's tales of underwater ambushes?
              Quote: SIT
              but at the near approaches there will be people who there, too, are not just watching beautiful fishes. Now, if they only have 4-pistol guns, and their opponents have such automatic weapons, then the lens can well go to the ground

              Again you are talking about underwater war. There is no such thing. was not and is unlikely to be. Now any decent Malomalsky fisherman has an echo sounder for catching unfortunate 10 cm perches. Do you really think that under water they will stupidly sit and wait, well, when the enemy swims up. to shoot him?
              He will be spotted 10 times on the way.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. SIT
                SIT 17 February 2014 16: 58
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                This tanker will turn on the anti-sabotage station and will periodically throw hand grenades from it (although there will be enough stations)

                The Chinese batteries were destroyed by a return volley of a peaceful Soviet tractor conducting tillage before sowing.
                Quote: atalef
                Again you are talking about underwater war. There is no such thing. was not and is unlikely to be. Now any decent Malomalsky fisherman has an echo sounder for catching unfortunate 10 cm perches. Do you really think that under water they will stupidly sit and wait, well, when the enemy swims up. to shoot him? He will be spotted 10 times on the way.

                This was not to the score - on April 19, 1956, the command of the British Navy announced that Captain Lieutenant Crabb "did not return to the bottom after an experimental dive, which was aimed at testing some submarines in the Stoke Bay of Portsmouth District." Recently, a clarification of the event that took place on April 19, 1956 in Portsmouth under the cruiser Ordzhonikidze appeared. Its main character was Eduard Koltsov. In his interview, Koltsov said that at the time, at the age of twenty-three years, he was an underwater scout. When the acoustics of the cruiser discovered a suspicious object under the bottom of the ship, the head of the reconnaissance group called Koltsov and ordered him to go down under the water and act according to circumstances.
                Koltsov did just that. Soon he noticed the silhouette of a man in a light-watering suit, who set up a mine on the starboard, exactly where the charging cellars are located. Observing caution, our scout approached the saboteur, grabbed his shoes and pulled at himself. When the body of the saboteur sailed next to him, the rings with a knife cut the respiratory device, and then the enemy's throat. The swimmer's body let go with the current, took a mine from the board and dragged it to the corner of the pier, where there were no people, a lot of silt and all kinds of garbage accumulated. For this feat, Edward Koltsov received the Order of the Red Star.
                On account of the fact that this is not. Well, God forbid.
                On account of the fact that this will not happen. Well this is hardly ...
                1. atalef
                  atalef 17 February 2014 17: 54
                  -2
                  Quote: SIT
                  The Chinese batteries were destroyed by a return volley of a peaceful Soviet tractor conducting tillage before sowing.

                  Is there anything on the topic
                  Quote: SIT
                  This was not to the score - on April 19, 1956, the command of the British Navy announced that Captain Lieutenant Crabb "did not return to the bottom after an experimental dive, which was aimed at testing some submarines in the Stoke Bay of Portsmouth District."

                  You still remember the beginning of a prosperous century. For 60 years, have technologies somehow advanced or not?
                  Probably because of this approach, AK has not yet been modernized humanly and this little-needed device is put up as a star.
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          3. Atlas
            Atlas 18 February 2014 14: 00
            0
            And what is the operating principle of this station? Tell me just I do not know.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Danash I
        Danash I 17 February 2014 19: 57
        +1
        Have Dohtur Kastorkin already been called to this arrow? lol The dream come true of some experts ....! Theorists ...... them!
      5. papuasimus
        papuasimus 19 February 2014 11: 33
        0
        Einstein, your frog, the ladle forgot ....
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. atalef
      atalef 17 February 2014 14: 00
      -1
      Quote: Hon
      And who else still has a double-welded machine? Or at least an underwater machine, just not a Chinese copy of our

      Yes, not a conversation, what is or not. Wonderful machine, but extremely narrow and specific. In any army in the world there are exceptional weapons that they need only. In Israel, there are gas masks for people with a beard (as an example. Maybe stupid). Nobody makes an application for stardom. although gas masks for the bearded need much more. than automatic machines for divers.
      Therefore, I say again - stardom is determined by the number of orders for this device. but something that would not have happened as with the elusive Joe.
      Now, if the AK-12 was a star - yes. And so, well, wonderful, well, the need for all the military forces in it is 1000 units, and in the world - probably no one or the same hundreds no more. . and....? Where is the starry?
      1. avt
        avt 17 February 2014 14: 38
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        Therefore, I say again - stardom is determined by the number of orders for this device.

        For a sales manager - yes, it's stupid to argue, of course, "star", as well as his seller, though not the fact that the goods sold by a successful seller are of super quality and are much better than analogues.
        Quote: atalef
        Well, the need for all the military forces in it is 1000 units,

        This machine is a fundamentally different replacement for its predecessor that it shoots with a "nail", in the air, by the way, too, and not a "Sea Lion" c transformation under a regular cartridge and the same "nail". This is quite a development going from the "Thunderstorm" and the A91m ,, rolls "from Tula with the possibility of firing a special cartridge as a regular one.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 17 February 2014 14: 46
          -1
          Quote: avt
          This machine is a fundamentally different replacement for its predecessor that shoots with a "nail"

          I know this machine gun (APS), I started the service in PDSS in Baltiysk and KMB passed there.
          Shot. he had a resource on the air in the region of 200 rounds, and when shooting from the pier, nails generally flew where they wanted.
          Well, that's not the point. The entire Baltic Fleet (if we take our unit) and a couple of special forces. there were 200 of them, I don’t think more, we have about 80. There were also pistols with 4 barrels (turning like a drum in a revolver).
          Well ? How many were there for all the armed forces? 4th Fleet, 2nd Flotilla. well, even 2000. And that’s it. Very narrowly targeted weapons, for specific forces and means.
          Handsomely . that’s all.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 17 February 2014 19: 13
            +4
            Quote: atalef
            Well ? How many were there for all the armed forces? 4th Fleet, 2nd Flotilla. well, even 2000. And that’s it. Very narrowly targeted weapons, for specific forces and means.
            Handsomely . that’s all.

            You do not stand on this machine look. Do you have a bulpap Tavor,

            we have a bulpap ADS.

            Among other things, ours also shoots under water.
            From this point of view, what’s wrong?
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 February 2014 20: 01
              -4
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Among other things, ours also shoots under water.
              From this point of view, what’s wrong?

              Let's compare Kamaz and Ferari. A machine? A machine. Four wheels? Four. Rides - rides.

              This is not to say that someone in the two you brought is a ferari or a kamaz. This is me to the fact that do not smack nonsense. One lineup does not mean that the cars have something similar except her
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 17 February 2014 20: 32
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                This is not to say that someone in the two you brought is a ferari or a kamaz. This is me to the fact that do not smack nonsense. One lineup does not mean that the cars have something similar except her

                But essentially there is something to say (not about Ferari)?
                Not about design features, but about why Tavor is better (or worse) of our ADF as the main special forces weapon?
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 February 2014 23: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  Not about design features, but about why Tavor is better (or worse) of our ADF as the main special forces weapon?

                  Do you seriously want to discuss this topic?
                  For starters, a two-medium ADS has an extremely narrow application. It may be good - but for a very narrow range of tasks, and does not have such a decisive advantage as they try to give it, but it has disadvantages. AK in this case is much more intelligent and effective.
                  Tavor - if we are talking about him - is better because underwater shooting does not need a machine gun - both visibility and range under water are limited, and the number of potential rivals is clearly limited. For automatic shooting at the enemy you need to stabilize yourself - and this is also a separate issue. And there are a lot of shortcomings - both in ergonomics and in weight, resource, balance (the integrated grenade launcher appeared there for him). Let's take a look at how many protruding and moving parts are in the photo - among other things. Let's look at the weight - 4.6 kg. Is this not enough?

                  This is an undeniably interesting, but no less controversial weapon. He is like Ferari - handsome and want to, but how effective is he in real life? Stumble over the bumps on the roads and wait for expensive parts?
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 18 February 2014 17: 50
                    +1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    For starters, a two-medium ADS has an extremely narrow application.

                    I repeat: you look at our machine gun as an underwater gun, which can shoot on land. I look on the other hand, as the main weapon of the special forces (for war on land).
                    Quote: Pimply
                    it does not have such a decisive advantage as they try to endow it, but it has disadvantages.

                    Which ones?
                    Quote: Pimply
                    And there are a lot of shortcomings - both in ergonomics and in weight, resource, balance (the integrated grenade launcher appeared there for him).

                    Speaking of balance,
                    with this question, the designer Tavor, unlike ours, didn’t bother at all with his main handle standing in the area of ​​the trunk,

                    and the center of gravity of the machine in the area of ​​the box with the bolt frame and ammunition store. We have balanced the grenade launcher and the center of gravity is located in the area of ​​the handle.
                    And by the way, the barrel of a grenade launcher can be removed and only the forend can be left.
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Let's look at the weight - 4.6 kg.

                    In the previous photo, Tabor with a grenade launcher. The weight of the grenade launcher 1,36 kg together with the tavor (weight of the tavern 3,635 kg) is 4,995 kg
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 18 February 2014 19: 57
                      0
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      I repeat: you look at our machine gun as an underwater gun, which can shoot on land. I look on the other hand, as the main weapon of the special forces (for war on land).

                      Why don’t you tell me?
                      The special forces need a light, modular, compact and reliable weapon, easy to operate, with the possibility of quick modification.

                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Which ones?

                      Listed several times. You can add to all of the above a controversial cartridge ejection pattern.

                      Have you ever held a Tabor in your hands? I am. On balance one of the best machines. Literally sticks into the shoulder. At the same time, a grenade launcher had to be put on the ADF without fail - to solve problems with the balance.

                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      In the previous photo, Tabor with a grenade launcher. The weight of the grenade launcher 1,36 kg together with the tavor (weight of the tavern 3,635 kg) is 4,995 kg

                      Your numbers are outdated both by brand and by grenade launcher.
                    2. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 18 February 2014 20: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Listed several times. You can add to all of the above a controversial cartridge ejection pattern.

                      Your statement that since they will rarely shoot from under it, then the machine itself is not needed - I do not consider it the ultimate truth.
                      Controversial cartridge ejection pattern? Who challenged her? it is found not only in Russian weapons (in addition to the A-91, also in the Stechkin assault rifle TKB-0146), but also in imported ones (for example, in FN F2000).
                      Quote: Pimply
                      ADF had to put a grenade launcher without fail - to solve problems with the balance.

                      There are no problems with balance. Read about it, if it is not needed, the grenade launcher is removed. Only with a grenade launcher is the center of gravity located in the handle area, and without it, behind, like your Tavor.
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Have you ever held a Tabor in your hands? I am.

                      And did they keep the ADS? on the basis of which is the statement that he sits worse in his hands than your Tabor?
          2. avt
            avt 17 February 2014 20: 50
            +1
            Quote: Bad_gr
            You do not stand on this machine look. Do you have a bulpap Tavor,

            Quote: Bad_gr
            Among other things, ours also shoots under water.
            From this point of view, what’s wrong?

            Quote: Pimply
            Let's compare Kamaz and Ferari. A machine? A machine. Four wheels? Four. Rides - rides.

            And don't say !!! With a cloth snout in a Kalashny row! Or with the "Kalashnikov"? Ugh - with the ADS, although we know that apart from the Kalash that Schmeiser made, we really do not know how. So in "Tavor" do not care! Compare KAMAZ vs Ferrari laughing You forgive him unreasonable, well, he has not grown up to Ferrari yet - he’s used to driving off-road in KAMAZ.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 01
              +1
              Quote: avt
              And don't say !!! With a cloth snout in a Kalashny row! Or with the "Kalashnikov"? Ugh - with the ADS, although we know that apart from the Kalash that Schmeiser made, we really do not know how. So in "Tavor" do not care! Compare KAMAZ with Ferrari You will forgive him unreasonable, well, he has not yet grown to Ferrari - he is used to driving KAMAZ off-road.

              Respected. If you do not understand, I do not compare Tavor with Ferari. In this case, Ferrari - ADS. It is expensive, unique, unsuitable for real life, it has incredibly expensive parts, it has controversial ergonomics, and it can show itself in too few situations. Disappearingly small, I would say
    2. SIT
      SIT 17 February 2014 15: 29
      +4
      Quote: atalef
      And so, well, wonderful, well, the need for all the military forces in it is 1000 units, and in the world - probably no one or the same hundreds no more. . and....? Where is the starry?

      Even if to complete the task such machines only needed 2 (me and a partner), it is already excellent that they are because the other side will have nothing to oppose.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. dustycat
      dustycat 17 February 2014 18: 05
      +2
      Quote: atalef
      A wonderful machine gun, but extremely narrow and specific.


      Well, unscrew the specificity and narrow focus - make a cheaper option purely for land - most of the crews of air and land vehicles will gladly give up on him the AKSU.
      And specialists often arrange fuss in urban and forest conditions, they will accept it.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  • Antibrim
    Antibrim 17 February 2014 12: 47
    +3
    I hope they will not sell to anyone) otherwise they will trample copies)
  • Admiral 013
    Admiral 013 17 February 2014 14: 02
    +5
    Thank God they did not forget how to make weapons. And the creators of the award.
  • Rodover
    Rodover 17 February 2014 15: 04
    +5
    I hope that this machine will soon replace the good old APS-5. Fighting swimmers also need to be equipped with new weapons.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 17 February 2014 18: 09
      +2
      And it would be nice to replace AKSU with them.
      Making it clean under the air makes the design easy to simplify.
      1. avt
        avt 17 February 2014 20: 44
        +1
        Quote: dustycat
        And it would be nice to replace AKSU with them.
        Making airborne easy simplification

        And 91M, and ADS, by and large, is a normal sample of "bulpup".
        Quote: Pimply
        This is not to say that someone in the two you brought is a ferari or a kamaz.

        Of course, there is nothing better than a Ferrari, Tavor, but we’ve got used to KAMAZ because of our “wretchedness”, especially at the Paris-Dakar rally. It is somehow calmer and more reliable, but let the rest go to Ferrari.
        1. ssergn
          ssergn 17 February 2014 22: 28
          +1
          And yes, I do not envy the Ferrari if he enters KAMAZ. Those. so - to Caesar Caesarean. And Kamaz are needed (if there is much to bring) and ferrari (if you need to quickly eat .... to beat). Something like this. hi
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 03
          0
          Quote: avt
          Of course, there is nothing better than a Ferrari, Tavor, but we are already accustomed to KAMAZ due to our wretchedness, especially at the Paris-Dakar rally. It is somehow calmer and more reliable, but let the rest go to Ferrari


          You hurry ahead of the train and do not know how to think. Ferari in this case is not Tavor, but ADS. Wanted, but expensive and not practical.

          Quote: avt
          And 91M, and ADS, by and large, is a normal sample of "bulpup".

          Which needs a grenade launcher for normal balance
  • Brother
    Brother 17 February 2014 19: 34
    +1
    Dear Santa Claus ...
  • mountain
    mountain 17 February 2014 19: 58
    +1
    Just thank you very much for the article and the information to it. And the effectiveness of this sample and its quantity in the armed forces will decide the military.
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  • Bogranz
    Bogranz 17 February 2014 20: 31
    +1
    Sorry ... I don’t know how to insert a video from YouTube. A fun movie about modern underwater weapons in the United States.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 17 February 2014 20: 36
      +1
      Quote: Bograntz
      Sorry ... I don’t know how to insert a video from YouTube. A fun movie about modern underwater weapons in the United States.

      Elementary. Copy the link and in the window that appears, delete the existing caption and paste instead.
  • Massik
    Massik 17 February 2014 20: 38
    +1
    It seems like recently there was a theme and such a revival))) It can be seen more people aim at the "star" than at the ADS ...
  • Bogranz
    Bogranz 17 February 2014 20: 52
    +2
    Thanks for the tip. This is to the comment of the "Professor" from 15.13 stating that ".... PS
    In the meantime, bourgeois combat swimmers ... "So ... these swimmers close up the muzzle with duct tape (we look at it carefully at the moment of the first shot), remove the barrel linings (as I understand, in order to close up the gas chamber with chewing gum) and drive the cartridge into the chamber before diving in order to avoid water getting into the barrel during a minute dive. Well, yes ... why do they need such an automatic machine as ADS? They are going to cover all railway bridges across rivers, all transports, ports, wharves, ferries, etc. by impulse stations.))))))
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 18 February 2014 00: 17
      0
      Quote: Bograntz
      so ... these swimmers cover up the muzzle with tape (we carefully look at it at the moment of the first shot), remove the barrel linings (as I understand it, to cover the gas chamber with gum) and drive the cartridge into the chamber before diving in order to avoid water entering the barrel during a minute dive.

      No combat swimmers in the video
      1. Bogranz
        Bogranz 18 February 2014 10: 04
        +1
        I didn’t claim that they were FIGHTING swimmers. Although not pedestrians))), who are trying to convince the viewer that the M-16 can be used by combat swimmers. In the presence of weapons of this kind, there would be no point in making such a video.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 18 February 2014 12: 40
          0
          Quote: Bograntz
          Although not pedestrians))), who are trying to convince the viewer that the M-16 can be used by combat swimmers.
          Look for fun, what NAVY SEAL works with
          1. Bogranz
            Bogranz 18 February 2014 13: 12
            +3
            I looked .... There are a lot of things. If desired, they can be hung like a Christmas tree with toys for the New Year.)))) I did not find an analog of ADS.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 22 February 2014 19: 26
    0
    Interesting weapon. But very specialized. There really is a hundred pieces a year for the eyes enough to produce. The main thing is more ammo to them.
  • Diviz
    Diviz 20 March 2014 18: 43
    0
    Narrowly think overseas citizens. Physics, and only physics, it explains some phenomenon and the corresponding apparatus appears that move according to the laws. In particular, this machine, a flurry, you look and boats appear.