Military Review

Kalashnikov flew past Vietnam

181
The Vietnamese Defense Ministry rejected a contract with Rosoboronexpot to organize production in the country for the production of Kalashnikov assault rifles belonging to the 100th series. The decision to organize the production of a small weapons on the territory of the country was adopted following a tender, in which, apart from Russia, Israel and China also participated. According to the Russian edition of Kommersant, the conditions of this tender were standard. The subject of the competition was the creation in Vietnam of an enterprise that could produce up to 50 thousands of automatic machines annually. At the same time, representatives of Rosoboronexport considered that their proposal was optimal for Vietnam.


Such confidence was based on the fact that the Vietnamese army has long been exploiting precisely the Kalashnikov assault rifles. The Vietnamese army has been using AK-47 since the middle of the last century. In the event that the production of Kalashnikov’s “hundredth series” could have been established in Vietnam, the Vietnamese army would not have had to massively relearn for a new type of weapon. However, the Vietnamese military did not agree with this, they were embarrassed by the too high price of the Russian proposal. It is reported that the winner of the tender was Israel, which, according to Russian journalists, offered the smallest transaction amount. According to sources of Kommersant at Rosoboronexport, the Vietnamese military were not initially interested in the proposal of the PRC, allowing Beijing to participate in the tender for purely political reasons.

According to Kommersant, which refers to its sources, the Russian proposal was estimated at more than 250 million dollars. While Israel came out with a bid for 170 million dollars. What financial terms of the deal China has offered is not reported. Thus, in the very near future, not Russian AKs will assemble in Vietnam, but the Israeli automatic machines of the Galil ACE series, which, ironically, are a further development of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

Kalashnikov flew past Vietnam

The fact that the Vietnamese military decided to focus on the localization of the Israeli automatic machines ACE 31 and ACE 32 under the patron 7,62х39 mm was reported at the end of January by the Vietnamese television channel QPVN, which showed the visit of the Vietnamese Defense Minister Lieutenant General Nguyen Thanh Chung to the plant for the production of weapons ZXNNXX located in the city of Thanh Hoa. It is reported that the construction of the factory for the production of Israeli machine guns is engaged in a well-known company Israel Weapon Industries. The cost of the construction of the enterprise is estimated at 111 million dollars. In the future, Israeli automata will have to completely replace the obsolete AK-100 used since 47 in the Vietnamese army.

Information about the loss of the competition concern "Kalashnikov" actually confirmed the new CEO of the company Alexei Krivoruchko. He explained the high cost of the Russian proposal to Vietnam by the high costs of production. At the same time Krivoruchko added that the concern expects to carry out optimization, which will not affect the number of workers in the shops of the enterprise. At the same time, sources close to Rosoboronexport call once again not to dramatize the situation, stressing that this is unpleasant, but it is impossible to talk about any losses.

For many years, Vietnam has been one of the main importers of Russian military equipment and weapons. Over the past years, this Asian country consistently ranked among the five largest clients of Rosoboronexport. At the same time, the loss of 250 million dollars does not look so terrible: every year Vietnam buys Russian military products worth at least 1,5 billion dollars. On the other hand, the rejection of Kalashnikov is a precedent in modern military-technical cooperation between the two countries. The Vietnamese Ministry of Defense publicly rejected Russian-made small arms in favor of foreign counterparts. Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, believes that price escalation is currently a fundamental problem for all Russian military-technical cooperation (MTC). The sharp increase in the cost of Russian military products is the main constraint on the development of military-technical cooperation, so ways out of the current situation must be sought in the financial sector.


Selected by the Vietnamese military Galil ACE Israeli assault rifles - ACE-31 and ACE-32 - are identical to each other and differ only in the length of the barrel. Currently, the ACE machine is being exported. The Tavor rifle, which is manufactured by the same company, is in service with the Israel Defense Forces. At the same time, the ACE series of automata is based on Galil automata, whose design is based on Kalashnikov automata. In the line of Galil ACE automatics, the models with the number 3 in the name (ACE-31 and ACE-32) are distinguished by the fact that they are intended to use the Soviet cartridge 7,62 × 39 mm, also they use stores from AK-47. According to military experts, the fact that Israeli machine guns are built on the basis of the Soviet machine gun, which is well-known to Vietnamese, will facilitate its adoption.

According to military expert Maxim Popenker, the chief editor of a large site on small arms world.guns.ru, although in technology terms Galil ACE is close to AK, it is still more modern and convenient small arms. The Israeli machine has the best ergonomics, it is two-way, it has the ability to install various attachments (sights, laser pointers, lights, etc.). Also, the Israeli machine is equipped with an adjustable butt, which should appeal to many undersized Vietnamese.

According to Maxim Popenker, a possible reason why the price of the Russian offer turned out to be higher is that AK was originally designed for high-volume mass production. The “100th series” is still based on Soviet technology - the AK-47, which was planned to be produced in millions of series. For the production of such volumes of machines, you need a rather expensive equipment for stamping, etc. It could only pay off if you planned to arm the armies of the USSR and its allies, the expert notes.

If we are talking about arming a relatively small army, then it is much more efficient to use conventional CNC machines for which you can purchase a special program in order to cut out the necessary parts from metal pieces. Such production is more difficult from a technological point of view, but it gives, in addition to a gain in product quality (stamped parts are less durable and durable than those made by the milling method), also savings on the equipment itself.


It is worth noting that the company Israel Weapon Industries seriously aimed at the international market. The Israelis have already built one Galil and Galil ACE assault rifle factory in Colombia, near Bogota. According to France Press, the volume of mass production at this enterprise amounts to 45 thousand automatic machines per year. Currently, Israeli assault rifles are in service with the Colombian army, as well as being delivered to other countries in the region. The IWI official website talks about the supply of small arms to Peru and Uruguay.

Maxim Popenker does not exclude the possibility that Vietnam will be able to re-equip not only its own army, but also be engaged in the supply of automatic machines for export, while paying Israelis royalties. From a business point of view, such a transaction may well be framed, it makes sense. At present, a rather large but at the same time complex market has emerged in Asia, where it would be much easier for the local countries to come to an agreement with each other.

It is worth noting that in other sales markets, the Kalashnikov concern does not go as badly as in Vietnam. According to Alexei Krivoruchko, in 2014, the concern is about to start organizing an assembly production of small arms in India. The planned capacity will be 50 thousand units of products annually. In addition, the Izhevsk enterprise will continue to fulfill its obligations to build a 100th Kalashnikov assault rifle assembly plant in Venezuela.

Information sources:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/02/10/priseprice
http://vpk.name/news/105103_kalashnikov_promahnulsya_mimo_vetnama.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/russia/2014/02/140210_kalashnikov_vietnam.shtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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  1. Rambiaka
    Rambiaka 12 February 2014 08: 43
    +7
    Where is this cryptic word "diversification"? Especially at the Kalashnikov Concern.
    1. Naum
      Naum 12 February 2014 20: 47
      +4
      Quote: Rambiaka
      the cryptic word "diversification"

      It was very good. popular with us in the late 80s. It led to the destruction of the Russian defense industry (fortunately, not complete). Defensive complexes, alas, did not replace pans with pans ...
      1. Aryan
        Aryan 13 February 2014 01: 46
        -1
        and they have a check for lining out on which side? what
        avdrukh racial and sexual segregation will be out of mind? am
      2. The comment was deleted.
  2. cosmos111
    cosmos111 12 February 2014 08: 46
    +16
    let the Vietnamese upset (((( am
    won the war and the United States, using Kalash ((((
    and now they suddenly didn’t need to become ????
    let's see how the "galil" ((((
    from which Tsahal began to turn out slowly and you won’t see a soldier armed with these weapons (((
    in my Jews, the Vietnamese simply bred (((( laughing
    1. invisibility
      invisibility 12 February 2014 09: 10
      +14
      Quote: cosmos111
      in my Jews the Vietnamese just bred

      Well, then they are Jews ...
      But personally, I am not surprised. Vietnam pursues its interests, this is logical.
      Quote: cosmos111
      let's see how "galil" will lead in the next war

      Yes, this is a question of questions !!! But "Kalash" at home is poured with mud, you have to start with yourself, my opinion.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. sssla
      sssla 12 February 2014 09: 30
      +12
      Quote: cosmos111
      from which Tsakhal began to turn out slowly and you won’t see a soldier armed with these weapons

      Yeah, right now, scribbling friends from Izgail will appear and prove to you that they have five armed soldiers there and this weapon is the last century for them, but for you, gosh, this is the future and you have a fantastic assault rifle laughing and your Kalash is good at chopping nuts and they have up to one point the opinion of our people who have fought here too, are now fighting with these brilliant weapons! All genius in P R O S T O T E !!!
      1. MACCABI TLV
        MACCABI TLV 12 February 2014 10: 15
        +1
        Quote: sssla
        pisaki friends from Izgail

        what do you have with diction man?

        Quote: sssla
        they will prove to you that they have five soldiers there armed

        Galil is exported, exactly the same as the Ak 100 series. Do you understand the meaning of what I said?
        1. sssla
          sssla 12 February 2014 21: 12
          0
          When you ask about diction, first learn to write yourself
          Quote: MACCABI TLV
          Understand
      2. atalef
        atalef 12 February 2014 21: 01
        +1
        genius in P R O S T O T E !!!

        Well, apparently not everything is so simple if the IDF abandoned Galileo because of obsolescence, but even what they abandoned, bypassed the AK, and even in Vtnam
        1. sssla
          sssla 12 February 2014 21: 23
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          The IDF abandoned Galileo because of obsolescence, but even that which was abandoned bypassed the AK

          You guys say so what you might think is armed with every soldier of your valiant IDF at least laser bullets and guns throwing antimatter
          And the fact that you are lovers of comparing even that AK of Vietnam issue 50-60gg with your own and the difference between them is that way 20-30 well, here bee koment)))
          1. atalef
            atalef 12 February 2014 21: 32
            +3
            Quote: sssla
            Quote: atalef
            The IDF abandoned Galileo because of obsolescence, but even that which was abandoned bypassed the AK

            You guys say so what you might think is armed with every soldier of your valiant IDF at least laser bullets and guns throwing antimatter

            but Galilov is completely gone, I even have security at substations with minitavors
    4. bazilio
      bazilio 12 February 2014 10: 15
      +4
      Quote: cosmos111
      let's see how the "galil" ((((
      from which Tsahal began to turn out slowly and you won’t see a soldier armed with these weapons (((

      Do not forget that Galash is a processed Kalash, so he will behave like Kalash. Tsakhal did not use galil in large quantities for economic reasons, and on the whole did the right thing by having his own type of weapon (very expensive), the production of which can be deployed if it happens that, in the framework of the military assistance program, American emki was bought at low prices (for emoji). But with the advent of the brand in galile, the need disappeared, but emki in the near future will be used for the same reasons, and there probably have been a lot of emoque in the warehouses.
    5. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 February 2014 10: 35
      +8
      Quote: cosmos111
      let's see how the "galil" ((((

      Galil is no softer than the M16 and M4 rifles. And nothing. The mattress makers are at war with their rifles and do not complain. The IDF refused for the same reason why we at one time abandoned the 7,62 * 39 cartridge. More recoil, less ammunition, worse bullet trajectory flatness. For 7,62 * 39 there is only one plus left. ITS SLASH !!! Here this cartridge is out of competition, well, except if that 7,62 * 54. Large calibers cannot be compared. The Israeli TAR-21 machine gun itself is lighter, cartridges are used 5,56 or our 5,45 * 39. The Bul pap scheme made it possible to reduce the size of the weapon and the "walking machine" during automatic firing.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 30
        +1
        It is debatable about slaughter. And Galil was initially made under 5.56, which in a number of parameters is much more traumatic than 7,62
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 12 February 2014 14: 15
          0
          Quote: Pimply
          It is debatable about slaughter. And Galil was initially made under 5.56, which in a number of parameters is much more traumatic than 7,62

          You are wandering. Kinetic energy or 7,62 percent, 30-40 more than 5,56. For comparison, the Brick Mill for 5,56 is an insurmountable obstacle. A 7,62 bullet pierces it through. I am silent about the 7,62 * 54 cartridge.
          1. bazilio
            bazilio 12 February 2014 15: 26
            +10
            Quote: PROXOR
            You are wandering. Kinetic energy or 7,62 percent, 30-40 more than 5,56. For comparison, the Brick Mill for 5,56 is an insurmountable obstacle. A 7,62 bullet pierces it through. I am silent about the 7,62 * 54 cartridge.

            Oh my God. Here's how to draw such superficial conclusions? If you do not understand the issue, do not make such high-profile statements. Do you even understand what you were talking about in the commentary that you called nonsense? They talked about SLAUGHTER, which is not the same as penetrative ability. For clarity, compare wound canals and temporary cavities from a bullet 5.56 mm and 7.62x39 mm. Then we’ll talk about the effectiveness of cartridges
            1. PROXOR
              PROXOR 12 February 2014 15: 57
              0
              Quote: bazilio
              Oh my God. Here's how to draw such superficial conclusions? If you do not understand the issue, do not make such high-profile statements. Do you even understand what you were talking about in the commentary that you called nonsense? They talked about SLAUGHTER, which is not the same as penetrative ability. For clarity, compare wound canals and temporary cavities from a bullet 5.56 mm and 7.62x39 mm. Then we’ll talk about the effectiveness of cartridges

              I don’t confuse anything. The cartridge 7,62, having a large impulse, damages living tissue more strongly. I’m silent about bullets with a displaced center of gravity. What does slaughter mean? Destroy the enemy. 7,62 is suitable for short combat distances, 5,45 and 5,56 are already suitable for long distances. I also remind you that even the Mattresses complained to the manufacturer of a 5,56 cartridge, which in the jungle could not allow them to shoot through dense vegetation. However, 7,62 did not have this problem. Again:
              7,62 greater momentum, but the persistence of the bullet’s flight path is worse and, as a result of powerful recoil, accuracy is worse when shooting in bursts. 5,56 and 5,45 with a lower impulse, better flatness, higher accuracy when firing a burst, less cartridge weight and, as a result, a fighter can take more ammunition with him.
              Let me remind you at the same time. That the leading countries of the world were not casual in the development of a new intermediate cartridge. Take at least the gatron 6.5x38 Grendel (http://topwar.ru/11498-patron-65x38-grendel.html). The question is NAFIGA then to pump funds into this cartridge, to prepare a new weapons complex for this cartridge if 5,56 is so good. So that it finally comes to you I will make for you a greater contrast pistol cartridge 9 * 18 and the same 5,54 * 39. Which cartridge will make the wound more fatal?
              1. Timeout
                Timeout 12 February 2014 16: 03
                +7
                Quote: PROXOR
                The cartridge 7,62, having a large impulse, damages living tissue more strongly.

                YOU have obviously become more wounded!







                Compare to level up ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. PROXOR
                  PROXOR 12 February 2014 16: 19
                  -2
                  Quote: Timeout
                  Compare to level up ...

                  Source please be in the studio. On the fence is also written. And I don’t believe that picture about 5,56.
                  1. Timeout
                    Timeout 12 February 2014 16: 36
                    +11
                    There is such a book. If you search
                  2. bazilio
                    bazilio 12 February 2014 17: 11
                    0
                    Quote: PROXOR
                    Source please be in the studio. On the fence is also written. And I don’t believe that picture about 5,56.

                    You know, dear, so you would have to start with at least one link link for all that nonsense that you splashed out about SLAUGHTER.
                3. Strashila
                  Strashila 12 February 2014 16: 30
                  +6
                  High-impulse ammunition serves a completely different concept of war ... not to kill, but to cripple. A wounded fighter ties his unit to the battlefield, costs for evacuation, treatment and rehabilitation ... and these are resources ... and they buried the dead ... and all.
                  1. xan
                    xan 13 February 2014 01: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Strashila
                    A wounded soldier ties his unit to the battlefield, costs for evacuation, treatment and rehabilitation are required ... and these are resources

                    the wounded will return to duty, and will perform the task next time
                    Quote: Strashila
                    and they buried the dead ... and that’s it.
              2. bazilio
                bazilio 12 February 2014 17: 08
                +6
                Quote: PROXOR
                I don’t confuse anything. The cartridge 7,62, having a large impulse, damages living tissue more strongly. I’m silent about bullets with a displaced center of gravity.

                Hard case....
                Quote: PROXOR
                What does slaughter mean? Destroy the enemy.

                So everything fell into place, you don’t understand much in ballistics - in ballistics they use the terms OPD — the stopping action of a bullet, as well as the penetrating (penetrating) action of a bullet. This is for a start
                Quote: PROXOR
                The cartridge 7,62, having a large impulse, damages living tissue more strongly.

                but at the same time

                Quote: PROXOR
                For comparison, the Brick Mill for 5,56 is an insurmountable obstacle. A bullet 7,62 pierces it through


                that is, according to your 7.62 bullet has a large momentum, that is, kinetic energy, but at the same time breaks through a brick wall. the question is, if a 7.62 bullet breaks through a brick, what will happen to the human body? - right, it will flash it on the fly. Hence the question is, if the bullet went on the fly, how will it tell the body its kinetic energy?

                Quote: PROXOR
                I also remind you that even the Mattresses complained to the manufacturer of a 5,56 cartridge, which in the jungle could not allow them to shoot through dense vegetation.

                There is a video on YouTube where they conduct comparative shootings from AKM and AK 74 through imitation of dense vegetation - the result at 5.45 is slightly worse than at 7.62, look and be sure to look.


                Quote: PROXOR
                The question is NAFIGA then to pump funds into this cartridge, to prepare a new weapons complex for this cartridge if 5,56 is so good.

                And I did not say that 5.56 or 5.45 is the best. It was you who began to inadequately compare ammunition for DESTROY AN ENTREPRENEURITY)))))
                Quote: PROXOR
                So that it finally comes to you I will make for you a greater contrast pistol cartridge 9 * 18 and the same 5,54 * 39.

                More damage will be from 125 mm OFS)))))
              3. Bogranz
                Bogranz 12 February 2014 17: 10
                +2
                Quote: PROXORI don’t confuse anything. The cartridge 7,62, having a large impulse, damages living tissue more strongly. I’m silent about bullets with a displaced center of gravity. What does slaughter mean? Destroy the enemy. 7,62 is suitable for short combat distances, 5,45 and 5,56 are already suitable for long distances. I also remind you that even the Mattresses complained to the manufacturer of a 5,56 cartridge, which in the jungle could not allow them to shoot through dense vegetation. However, 7,62 did not have this problem. Again:
                7,62 greater momentum, but the persistence of the bullet’s flight path is worse and, as a result of powerful recoil, accuracy is worse when shooting in bursts. 5,56 and 5,45 with a lower impulse, better flatness, higher accuracy when firing a burst, less cartridge weight and, as a result, a fighter can take more ammunition with him.
                Let me remind you at the same time. That the leading countries of the world were not casual in the development of a new intermediate cartridge. Take at least the gatron 6.5x38 Grendel (http://topwar.ru/11498-patron-65x38-grendel.html). The question is NAFIGA then to pump funds into this cartridge, to prepare a new weapons complex for this cartridge if 5,56 is so good. So that it finally comes to you I will make for you a greater contrast pistol cartridge 9 * 18 and the same 5,54 * 39. From what cartridge the wound will be more fatal? [/ Quote]

                When you read such reasoning, and even with reference to the "shifted center of gravity" - you understand that a person has never really seen wounds inflicted by bullets of 5,45 and 7,62 caliber ... And ... he has no idea that in general, both a 5,45 bullet and a 7,62 bullet due to their conical they have a displaced center of gravity relative to the longitudinal axis .... When assessing the severity of injuries, you need to take into account the speed of the bullet, and not just its caliber. The collision of a bullet with an affected human flesh is also a kind of hydrodynamic shock arising from the fact that this flesh consists of more than 70% liquid ....
                1. Timeout
                  Timeout 12 February 2014 17: 15
                  +3
                  I have already laid out the schemes of wound channels for this comrade, so he still shouts "I don't believe". Until he tries this beauty on himself, he will not understand, unless, of course, he survives ... It's just that the youth are not scared anymore.
                  1. xan
                    xan 13 February 2014 01: 24
                    -1
                    Quote: Timeout
                    I have already laid out the schemes of wound channels for this comrade, so he still shouts "I do not believe". Until he tries this beauty on himself, he will not understand, unless of course he survives ...

                    But such a thing as the penetration ability of a bullet and its kinetic energy does not affect what?
                    If you can hide from one bullet behind a brick wall, but not from another, is that nonsense? When shooting in a village, this is one of the most important advantages, to shoot through walls, partitions, etc.
                    1. Timeout
                      Timeout 13 February 2014 02: 07
                      0
                      Quote: xan
                      But such a thing as the penetration ability of a bullet and its kinetic energy does not affect what?
                      If you can hide from one bullet behind a brick wall, but not from another, is that nonsense? When shooting in a village, this is one of the most important advantages, to shoot through walls, partitions, etc.

                      It is checked, as they say on itself ... A wall in 2 red bricks (not hollow) 7.62x39 does not take. As well as from a clay blow, even 7,62X54 chips chips off, only the KPVT takes it.
                2. bazilio
                  bazilio 12 February 2014 17: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: Bograntz
                  When you read such arguments, and even with reference to the "shifted center of gravity", you understand that a person has never really seen wounds inflicted by 5,45 and 7,62 caliber bullets in his life.

                  Well, why see? why understand and study the issue loudly enough, accusing others of stupidity, say anything, the main thing is to take it with your voice)))) and when they begin to present evidence, it’s enough just to say it is not true)))
                  1. The comment was deleted.
              4. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 12 February 2014 20: 42
                +2
                Quote: PROXOR
                complained to the manufacturer about 5,56 cartridge which in the jungle could not allow to shoot through dense vegetation.

                This was not a cartridge problem, but a feature of the M16A1 rifle - to increase the damaging effect of the bullet, these rifles had a very shallow cut, so the bullets fired from them had weak gyroscopic stabilization, which led to ricochets even from minor obstacles like foliage. In subsequent models, the pitch of the rifling was reduced, the problem with ricochets was eliminated.
            2. sssla
              sssla 12 February 2014 21: 27
              -3
              Quote: bazilio
              For clarity, compare wound canals and temporary cavities from a bullet 5.56 mm and 7.62x39 mm.

              For clarity))) I’ll ask you when it will be more painful when they hit you with a piece of rubble with a fraction of 20 or 50 A ???
            3. air wolf
              air wolf 14 February 2014 09: 29
              0
              Listen to the wise guy, with modern PPE, you know what it is about, mattresses are switching to 6,5. Well, it's all from the evil one, 7,62x39 is the most effective automatic cartridge, only gunpowder needs to be replaced with more modern and balanced automation to apply as in AEK and our soldiers will be happy!
          2. Hon
            Hon 12 February 2014 16: 20
            +4
            Quote: PROXOR
            You are wandering. Kinetic energy or 7,62 percent, 30-40 more than 5,56. For comparison, the Brick Mill for 5,56 is an insurmountable obstacle. A 7,62 bullet pierces it through. I am silent about the 7,62 * 54 cartridge.

            Of course, 7,62 has great penetrating power, but the target has a chance to stay alive after a through wound. With 5,45 / 5,56, the situation is more complicated. There is a wider wound channel, and more secondary fragments ...
            1. Valentine
              Valentine 13 February 2014 00: 45
              +1
              There may be a chance to stay alive, but only for combat the fighter is already lost. And then a certain amount of time will be in the infirmary, taking away time and resources from the homeland for its treatment. And after all the same, they will most likely commission it. In general, in any situation, minus one.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Timeout
            Timeout 12 February 2014 16: 27
            +3
            Quote: PROXOR
            A bullet 7,62 pierces it through
            What the hell? Have you seen this? This makes 7.62x54 and only if the queue from the PC.
            7.62x39 gets stuck in class 5 armor, and 5.45 sews it in. Expert, ...
          5. Jin
            Jin 12 February 2014 19: 23
            +1
            Quote: PROXOR
            You are wandering.


            Prokhor, you leave sound posts, but here they’re not quite right. I’ll tell you how ... a practitioner, not a theorist ... the excess power (which it is for most situations) of the 7,62x39 cartridge, which you take as a plus, actually has a number of minuses. You yourself understand the obverse and the reverse of the medal ... Ask anyone more or less shooting, but not the conscripts (15 rounds 2 times a year on firing). If you want to break through the walls .... in short, without snot, you don’t see the enemy in battle ... what walls? This is for armored vehicles, and you turned down about the walls, not all 7,62 breaks through walls so clearly (let me give you another fact from the USSR how he heals the rails through) ...
    6. AVV
      AVV 12 February 2014 11: 22
      +5
      Quote: cosmos111
      in my Jews the Vietnamese simply bred ((((laughing

      You need to learn from the mistakes of others, and not from your own !!!
    7. Val_y
      Val_y 12 February 2014 12: 08
      -1
      Oh, I beg you, they didn’t put it on, but a little bit, they inflated both the front and the back, and they probably stuck some kind of chin’s optics instead of "Carl Zeiss" hi It’s interesting, but with metal, Galil’s like whether the jungle can withstand laughing
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 18: 12
        0
        It has been used in Colombia for several years. The quality of the metal is higher than that of AK
    8. atalef
      atalef 12 February 2014 19: 13
      +2
      Quote: cosmos111
      in my Jews, the Vietnamese simply bred ((((

      Did you read the article carefully?
      According to military expert Maxim Popenker, the chief editor of a large site on small arms world.guns.ru, although in technology terms Galil ACE is close to AK, it is still more modern and convenient small arms. The Israeli machine has the best ergonomics, it is two-way, it has the ability to install various attachments (sights, laser pointers, lights, etc.). Also, the Israeli machine is equipped with an adjustable butt, which should appeal to many undersized Vietnamese.

      Ask for $ 80 million for the worst - who wanted to breed?
    9. Dezzed
      Dezzed 22 March 2014 14: 26
      +1
      Quote: cosmos111
      won the war and the United States, using Kalash ((((


      War is won not by weapons but by the "spirit" of the soldiers and the population.
  3. Stiletto
    Stiletto 12 February 2014 08: 52
    +9
    Kalashnikov flew past Vietnam

    - It was Vietnam that "flew by" Kalashnikov. hi
  4. builder
    builder 12 February 2014 08: 55
    +5
    In a large family, e .... they don’t click their beaks
  5. bazilio
    bazilio 12 February 2014 08: 58
    +10
    Rosoboronexport itself is to blame, and for some reason, earlier on the site there was this news, a real holivar opened up where galil was watered with mud primarily for its high cost due to the use of milling. Maybe the production line for milling is cheaper (not sure), but the product itself after milling definitely goes more expensive than a stamped sample. How is the price difference explained? 250 vs 170 million?
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 12 February 2014 09: 46
      +15
      Quote: bazilio
      How is the price difference explained? 250 vs 170 million?

      80 million for effective management. And in the place of the Government, I would conduct an investigation about the failure of the transaction. You look, and prices will drop
      price escalation at the moment is a fundamental problem of all Russian military-technical cooperation (MTC).
    2. loft79
      loft79 12 February 2014 11: 45
      +11
      Quote: bazilio
      250 vs 170 million?

      "The CEO noted that at the moment in the concern there is an" extremely wrong "ratio of working personnel and senior staff... “There are 4,7 people in the concern and 7 at Izhmekh, of course, this is a big figure. We have only 26% of those who produce weapons, the ratio is extremely wrong, the apparatus is greatly inflated, "admitted Krivoruchko, RIA Novosti reports.

      That is the whole answer. Top managers are sitting, for whom the main thing is to write down and receive a bonus and receive money, and invest money in the modernization of production, this is somehow later, maybe someday. It’s sad.

      PS
      “It is not a secret that the crisis is very difficult at Kalashnikov,” said Krivoruchko, ITAR-TASS reports. “There will be big losses in 2013, and now the concern is operating at a loss. According to preliminary estimates, the loss for 2013 will amount to 1,7 billion rubles ”
      1. vyatom
        vyatom 12 February 2014 13: 45
        +11
        Quote: loft79
        That is the whole answer. Top managers are sitting, for whom the main thing is to write down and receive a bonus and receive money, and invest money in the modernization of production, this is somehow later, maybe someday. It’s sad.

        This is the main reason. Hard workers, I think they get a penny.
        And do not blame the Vietnamese. They also know how to count money, and I don’t want to feed sweetly from the belly of our managers at the expense of Vietnamese taxpayers.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 31
      0
      Why is it more expensive? With that which has greater reliability and a higher resource?
      1. Nuar
        Nuar 12 February 2014 21: 37
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        Why is it more expensive? With that which has greater reliability and a higher resource?
        Yes, it so happened that in the Union it was believed that stamping is always cheaper than fur. processing (and any).

        And by the way, for stampers, the qualifications always differed little from zero, and for a milling cutter (for high-quality work), the discharge should be, well, not the third.

        Yes, now there are CNC machines and production is less dependent on the qualifications of the staff, but something about these quotes:
        For the production of such volumes of machines it is necessary quite expensive stamping equipment etc.

        ...

        armed with a relatively small army, it is much more effective to apply conventional CNC machinesfor which you can purchase a special program
        - I am tormented by vague doubts.
    4. Zabelin
      Zabelin 12 February 2014 12: 44
      +6
      You are right about Rosoboron’s account. No offense, but how heavy and not agile they are. Especially after the bonus system for management was canceled. Paper to paper, request for inquiry. Anything less than 5-10 million is not interesting.
  6. Nayhas
    Nayhas 12 February 2014 09: 07
    +1
    The author did not mention yet another failure of the Kalashnikov concern. India is planning to replace its INSAS assault rifle (Indian National Small Arms System) and is conducting a competition in which the Kalashnikov concern is not participating. In May, the following trunks will be tested under extreme conditions:
    IWI ACE already mentioned in the article:

    ARX-160 from Beretta:

    Colt ACR well it’s clear whose;
    CZ 807A Bren by Ceskiej Zbrojovki:

    As in the case of Vietnam, the conditions for the production of assault rifles should be localized in India.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 February 2014 09: 15
      +16
      Quote: Nayhas
      The author did not mention yet another failure of the Kalashnikov concern. India is planning to replace its INSAS assault rifle (Indian National Small Arms System) and is conducting a competition in which the Kalashnikov concern is not participating. In May, the following trunks will be tested under extreme conditions:

      I think it's time for the country's leadership to make ORGVALUES that the management of the concern is getting drunk and does not catch "mice". Thank God Mikhail Timofeevich did not live to see this shame !!!
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 12 February 2014 09: 48
        +3
        Quote: PROXOR
        Thank God Mikhail Timofeevich did not live to see this shame !!!

        Yeah.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 12 February 2014 10: 07
          +3
          Quote: samoletil18
          India is planning to replace its INSAS assault rifle (Indian National Small Arms System) and is conducting a competition in which the Kalashnikov concern is not participating.

          I think so far AK12 will not be brought to mind, the story of failures in the tender will continue.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 36
        +9
        I survived. The plant began to be built in 2011. Ak's refusal to participate in the competition also did not come yesterday. And partly in this situation Mikhail Timofeevich was also to blame, with whose efforts many promising examples of the Russian rifleman were bent. With all due respect to his merits
  7. PROXOR
    PROXOR 12 February 2014 09: 13
    +27
    You can terribly minus me, but I'm glad that the Kalashnikov Concern has failed the tender. Everyone is hoping for the old ones to creep out. A good slap came to them now, I hope to think about it. I fully understand the Vietnamese. Galil is the same AK-47, minus the following disadvantages:
    1) workmanship
    2) ergonomics of execution (how much our military is asking Izhmash to make it possible to switch the fuse with the thumb of his right hand, a telescopic butt, a neck for the store with an eject button, a shutter lag. There’s nothing complicated about this. The famous Krebs company from Matrasia has been upgrading Kalashnikovs for a long time. Great machines are obtained).
    3) the total value of the contract.
    4) there is nothing special in retraining the personnel of the Vietnamese army for a new machine gun and even the old cartridge.
    5) AK-100y series is still the same AK-74, only with balanced automation. (apparently for Vietnamese this is not a problem)

    All these factors led to a loss in the tender. And this is not the last swallow. AK-12 can not be brought to the assembly line in order for our army to start buying it.
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil 12 February 2014 09: 27
      +10
      I agree with you, Russian industry has long rested on its laurels and used the Soviet backlog, now the USSR is gone, Russian officials and functionaries do not know how to work, and they don’t want to, so it turns out, they just missed it a bit, it’s outdated, and then once , it turns out that everyone has already switched to Battle Blasters, and we are all trying to get in the good old Soviet Kalash.
      1. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 12 February 2014 10: 06
        +5
        I agree, but there is one more nuance. The reason for the refusal was the price ... and our price is high because of the "Costs". And what are our main costs? then that.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 39
        +3
        This is what we are talking about. Icons are important, but time does not stand still
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 February 2014 09: 48
      +7
      Quote: PROXOR
      A good slap came to them now, I hope to think about it.

      Your hopes that the Kalashnikov concern will ponder in vain. The concern was not created for that, it is designed for domestic consumption, for state orders. They will not receive it, they will start drooling about the death of a world-renowned domestic arms manufacturer, beg for another financial support from the state and further in a circle.
      A state concern can never be more competitive than a private company. A private company cannot wait for support from a good uncle, it is forced to look for new markets, come up with new products that meet world requirements. Only the fittest survives here.
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 12 February 2014 09: 55
        +5
        Quote: Nayhas
        Your hopes that the Kalashnikov concern will ponder in vain. The concern was not created for that, it is designed for domestic consumption, for state orders. They will not receive it, they will start drooling about the death of a domestic weapons manufacturer with a worldwide reputation, beg for another financial support from the state and further in a circle. A state concern can never be more competitive than a private company. A private company cannot wait for support from a kind uncle, it has to look for new markets, invent new products that meet world requirements. Only the strongest survive here.

        Damn well, why I don’t have a lot of dough. There is also a private company Oris for the production of rifles. Need a competitor QC. Which will release a really normal Kalashnikov that meets modern requirements. Although this company will not be allowed to live with us.
        This Izhmash will go bankrupt.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 40
          0
          Quote: PROXOR
          Quote: Nayhas
          Your hopes that the Kalashnikov concern will ponder in vain. The concern was not created for that, it is designed for domestic consumption, for state orders. They will not receive it, they will start drooling about the death of a domestic weapons manufacturer with a worldwide reputation, beg for another financial support from the state and further in a circle. A state concern can never be more competitive than a private company. A private company cannot wait for support from a kind uncle, it has to look for new markets, invent new products that meet world requirements. Only the strongest survive here.

          Damn well, why I don’t have a lot of dough. There is also a private company Oris for the production of rifles. Need a competitor QC. Which will release a really normal Kalashnikov that meets modern requirements. Although this company will not be allowed to live with us.
          This Izhmash will go bankrupt.
          Why should he necessarily issue Kalashnikov?
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR 12 February 2014 14: 21
            +1
            Kalashnikov’s automation is simple and reliable. I would say perfect. It only needs to be brought to mind. Make all the necessary functions. Yes, and MO is more likely to accept such a machine than an absolutely new one.
    4. Timeout
      Timeout 12 February 2014 11: 21
      +5
      Quote: PROXOR
      2) ergonomics of execution (how much our military is asking Izhmash to make it possible to switch the fuse with the thumb of his right hand, a telescopic butt, a neck for the store with an eject button, a shutter lag. There’s nothing complicated about this. The famous Krebs company from Matrasia has been upgrading Kalashnikovs for a long time. Great machines are obtained).

      Dear, I will not minus, just do not speak on behalf of everyone in the army. Those who practically live with a friend will not say a bad word about this, especially about the neck and butt. Moderate your ardor, all refinements on AK were carried out at the request of just such people. And if you want to fight with a machine gun from Krebs, the flag is in your hands ...
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 42
        +2
        Those who live with weapons, whatever you say in the next, have long formulated requirements for a modern automatic machine. Including the modernization of AK
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 12 February 2014 13: 34
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          have long formulated the requirements for a modern automatic machine. Including the modernization of AK

          Eugene, back in 1988, representatives from Izh came with questionnaires, which were then transferred to units. The only requirement that everyone noted, without exception, is the bar under the gun. The same thing happened in 2003. And the requirements that you describe were outlined by Makarov and the armament commission at the General Staff in which there was not a single military man.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 12 February 2014 18: 15
            +1
            Only they are still not the embodiment of the series
    5. Alex_Popovson
      Alex_Popovson 12 February 2014 12: 15
      +1
      Well, in general, Izhevsk people have always been famous for their quickness. Avon, even we flew state tests, Kovrov will now supply AEKi to the troops.
      But let's hope that everything is completed, thought out and so-ska do not shame
    6. Pimply
      Pimply 12 February 2014 12: 38
      +2
      Balanced automation is extremely controversial
    7. atalef
      atalef 12 February 2014 19: 18
      +3
      Quote: PROXOR
      All these factors led to a loss in the tender. And this is not the last swallow. AK-12 can not be brought to the assembly line so that our army begins to buy it

      They’ll bring it, don’t doubt it, Buran did it and Ak will bring it
      1. Alex_Popovson
        Alex_Popovson 12 February 2014 20: 51
        0
        Buran did

        And where is that Buran? As Protons were allowed, they were.
    8. bandabas
      bandabas 12 February 2014 20: 13
      +2
      The fuse is always on the Kalash switch thumb of the right hand. Conversely, personally, I am flashing my forefinger. There may be a question about switching with your left hand. Closer to the truth.
    9. Naum
      Naum 12 February 2014 21: 00
      +2
      Each consortium is fraught with its end. Something like that, but the point is. that each idea in the course of its development inevitably comes to its end. It was originally laid in it. So with AK. This amazing weapon has outlived its century. Alas, it is not relevant today. I swore allegiance to the USSR with AKM and there will be no other and I do not want anything else! The design idea does not stand still and in front of fantastic machines with radiation (light, sound and other) damage. Everything that a person can think of - REALLY!
  8. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 12 February 2014 09: 14
    +18
    The greed of our officials is already going through the roof, most likely a kickback has been laid in the price of weapons for officials, and Israel won the tender. With this approach, no one will soon buy our weapons. China is also actively entering the market.
    1. piterkras
      piterkras 12 February 2014 09: 49
      .
      Don’t you give a damn? All the same, you have no material interest in this matter. Better for their retirement salary so worried. Maybe they would have lived richer, and not like now they would poke their beak in their own business.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 12 February 2014 11: 06
        +11
        Quote: piterkras
        Don’t you give a damn? All the same, you have no material interest in this matter. Better for their retirement salary so worried. Maybe they would have lived richer, and not like now they would poke their beak in their own business.

        I didn’t ask you. Selling any product replenishes the budget, and, accordingly, all that follows from this. but for you it is not accessible because at school he was a dvoeshnikom.
        1. Alex_Popovson
          Alex_Popovson 12 February 2014 15: 26
          +1
          Selling any product replenishes the budget

          The budget of our dear bureaucrats? Oh, he does not replenish - he fills.
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 12 February 2014 14: 26
      +3
      Not in the price of a weapon, but in the price of a production line. It’s just that I think KK was proposing new line, and Israel has already proposed the existing line, since Galil most likely will no longer be produced in Israel. Hence the difference in price - it is possible to sell existing equipment that has repeatedly paid for itself much cheaper than new.
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 13 February 2014 09: 30
        0
        Where does the QC come from? our mechanical engineering is already given does not exist. And no new lines are being produced.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 13 February 2014 11: 23
          +1
          Quote: vladsolo56
          Where does the QC come from? our mechanical engineering is already given does not exist. And no new lines are being produced.

          You slightly confuse the warm with the soft - for the construction of the production line it is absolutely not necessary to have your own equipment, it is enough to have technology. That is why the KK proposal was more expensive than the proposal of the Jews - the KK line would be new.
          And yet - enough is already about prosrailsepolymers, we have in Russia and mechanical engineering, and if you do not see it, then this is your difficulties.
  9. Old scoop
    Old scoop 12 February 2014 09: 15
    +12
    According to Maxim Popenker, a possible reason why the price of the Russian offer turned out to be higher is that AK was originally designed for high-volume mass production. The “100th series” is still based on Soviet technology - the AK-47, which was planned to be produced in millions of series. For the production of such volumes of machines, you need a rather expensive equipment for stamping, etc. It could only pay off if you planned to arm the armies of the USSR and its allies, the expert notes.

    If we are talking about arming a relatively small army, then it is much more efficient to use conventional CNC machines for which you can purchase a special program in order to cut out the necessary parts from metal pieces. Such production is more difficult from a technological point of view, but it gives, in addition to a gain in product quality (stamped parts are less durable and durable than those made by the milling method), also savings on the equipment itself.

    That's how it turns out, otherwise all countries are trying to reduce the cost of production, in particular weapons, by stamping (mediocrity and amateurs). However, cutting is cheaper, bravo author! Apparently, Sergey is not a techie and has a very distant idea of ​​production. Well, it’s necessary to drive your engineers and designers using the stamping method, they just rip us off with expensive products. Sorry, but I will not give calculations to prove my words to anyone interested in Google to help.
    I think some of the Vietnamese comrades settled some of the sums on some accounts.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 12 February 2014 09: 51
      0
      Quote: Old scoop
      I think some of the Vietnamese comrades settled some of the sums on some accounts

      We have learned from our "comrades".
    2. xan
      xan 13 February 2014 01: 39
      0
      Quote: Old scoop
      However, cutting is cheaper, bravo author! Apparently, Sergey is not a techie and has a very distant idea of ​​production. Well, it’s necessary to drive your engineers and designers using the stamping method, they just rip us off with expensive products. Sorry, but I will not give calculations to prove my words to anyone interested in Google to help.

      One must probably not show off, but explain that stamping a part increases its density and hardness, that is, wear resistance. The stamped parts last much longer. I am not an expert, but I read about stamping just yesterday. But here many are not specialists.
      The Vietnamese probably do not need such machines that can withstand 10 rounds without deviations of the basic properties.
      They are not going to fight.
      And about the modernity of weapons. Everyone knows that Kalash, who is about 30 years old, will definitely be in the business for one simple reason - as long as they will be killed with bullet buoyant gas, there will be no serious advantage, such as rifled over smooth-bore, over Kalash.
  10. Alez
    Alez 12 February 2014 09: 28
    -1
    Surprisingly, Jews use the Kalashnikov mechanism to produce their weapons. And where is the patent war from ROSOBORONEXPORT comrades. How long will Jews and other nations profit from our developments. What is the audacity to apply the Kalashnikov mechanism in order to circumvent the Kalashnikov concern in a tender. Where the state is looking, Yabloko and Samsung are suing every day, so that it would not be shameful for others to dig patents and developments, and our SMUGGLES only state - think about 250 mulons, they prosral, Russia is a rich and generous soul.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 February 2014 09: 31
      -2
      Well, it will be difficult. The Izravites say we took from the Chinese or someone else. And we officially presented everything to the Chinese.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 12 February 2014 11: 26
        +10
        Quote: PROXOR
        The Izravites say we took from the Chinese or someone else.


        They took Valmet from Finns. Which in turn the descendant licensed and an upgraded copy of the AK-47.



        And already the Galil ACE line comes from a modified Finnish model.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 12 February 2014 19: 23
          +5
          Quote: Ascetic
          Finns Valmet they took

          Bought a license - be precise hi
          Quote: Ascetic
          a descendant of a licensed and modernized copy of the AK-47.

          Which (license) finns bought from AK. I didn’t kick, is buying a license a theft? Since when ?
          Russia bought a license from Israel to produce UAVs (I don’t remember which one) - the same theft.
    2. MACCABI TLV
      MACCABI TLV 12 February 2014 10: 20
      +4
      Quote: Alez
      And where is the patent war from ROSOBORONEXPORT comrades.

      Patent (from lat. Patens - open, clear, obvious) - a security document certifying the exclusive right, authorship and priority of an invention, utility model or industrial design. The validity of a patent depends on the country of patenting, the subject of patenting and ranges from 5 to 25 years.
      This is 1.
      2 is that
      preference was given to the Galili version, which was based on the design of the Finnish assault rifle Valmet Rk 62 (copy of AK), the production license of which was purchased by Israel and which itself was a licensed version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.
    3. vanaheym
      vanaheym 12 February 2014 18: 51
      +2
      And what is the actual patent war? Patents have expired a long time ago.
  11. bunta
    bunta 12 February 2014 09: 31
    +7
    Vietnam Armed Forces 500 000 and 4 million reservists. Valid drill 300 000. According to 50 thousand, this is six years to replace only combatant. Any combat loss will be more than 50 thousand per year. So you need to have at least a double supply, this is another six years. If we decide to arm the reserves as well, it will drag on for a couple of decades. Total re-equipment of such a plant will take more than a dozen years.

    Whatever they say about stamping vs milling, it is not even a kindergarten to argue that in some place milling can be more profitable than stamping in mass production. They would have offered 3D printers for such a glorious business. It makes no sense to dissuade and give arguments.
    About "ergonomics" and "body kits" - nonsense is not commented on.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 February 2014 09: 39
      +5
      Quote: bunta
      About "ergonomics" and "body kits" - nonsense is not commented on.

      What you call nonsense, you call it military officers. They have Afghan, two Chechnya and South Ossetia behind them. As can be called nonsense, the presence of a slide delay, a fuse under the finger and not to pull the hand. The whole world uses Kalimator sights, you can't install them without serious modifications. LTSU also put a horseradish. And don't write to me about the telescopic sight holder shackle. In addition to domestic optics, you will not put anything on it. Now about the "body kit" as you say. All people are different and everyone's arm length is different. And we all make one butt. I'm not talking about depreciation after a shot at the moment the weapon recoils. Yes, I can’t put a trite spring, so that the bolt does not hit the receiver at the end of the stroke.
      1. bunta
        bunta 12 February 2014 10: 03
        +7
        The terms of reference for the AK were developed by people who had behind them the 4 of the war year for all Chechen and Afghan by a large margin.

        If you think that the Izhmash Design Bureau did not deal with the issues of the shutter delay in the AK or other issues of "tuning", then you are deeply mistaken. If it does not stand on the side bar "except for something there", it only says that the MO did not order "this" with such a mount.
        Do you seriously think that the concern has a thin gut to make a batch with a slide delay, a sliding butt and a cartridge indicator in the chamber?

        The designer does what the customer orders according to his terms of reference. If there is no delay, then the questions are primarily to the MO, and not to the machine.

        The Vietnamese, by the way, have no excuse for the presence-absence of a delay or a sliding butt, and to the price of the contract.
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 12 February 2014 10: 27
          +2
          Quote: bunta
          If you think that the Izhmash Design Bureau did not deal with the issues of the shutter delay in the AK or other issues of "tuning", then you are deeply mistaken. If it does not stand on the side bar "except for something there", it only says that the MO did not order "this" with such a mount. Do you seriously think that the concern has the guts to make a batch with a slide stop, a sliding stock and a cartridge indicator in the chamber?

          Well, where is it all? Those. 12 gauge carbines with these functions can be produced independently, but for a combined-arms machine gun, you need the will of the MO. Excellent. The Ministry of Defense refused to purchase Kalashnikovs altogether. Whose will is needed now? Those guys who became "soldiers of fortune" after two wars talked about ergonomics more than once. Yet again. What our MO considers is not a standard and we need to develop ourselves. Look at the rifle of mattress, Britt, Jews and Hans. A modular scheme, lightweight stores, everything so that the soldier in battle does not think how to complete the task but perform it. We want Kalash in the teeth - fight. Why should a fighter take the sight of a good company and count his turnips with how to screw it to the machine gun and then shoot it. Yes, it's better to take the same Krebs or Galil on which all this is attached without dancing with a tambourine.
          Quote: bunta
          The Vietnamese, by the way, have an excuse not for the presence or absence of a delay or sliding butt, but for the price of the contract.

          One of the reasons but not decisive. I’ll say it on my own. But I’d better overpay and buy a car from a trusted friend, it’s cheaper who doesn’t know from whom. There are many reasons and financial is not the main one. It was made basic as otmazy.
        2. bazilio
          bazilio 12 February 2014 10: 29
          +3
          Comrades bunta and proxor
          Why swear, each of you is part of the rights.
          About body kits- body kits, body kit, bells and whistles are needed, but why make claims against the designers if the customer did not order anything like that. If Izhmash were in the private sector, most likely the Kalash kit was developed, at least for export samples. But Ihmazh did not receive an order for body kits, so why should he do body kits?
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 12 February 2014 11: 40
            +3
            Quote: bazilio
            But Ihmazh did not receive an order for body kits, so why should he do body kits?

            I agree with this at a time! There are plenty of firms releasing such junk, the market is oversaturated. But 99% of the army is practically not needed.
            1. Jin
              Jin 12 February 2014 18: 59
              +1
              Quote: Timeout
              But 99% of the army is practically not needed.


              So long, I carefully read the posts, ......removed by the moderator Apollo in fig .... and what exactly the army does not need, what 99% and what "obeves" (stupid, weapon-compatible, word)? What is not needed? tactical lights, collimators, optics, night vision devices, handles, target designators, bipods, additional optics, grenade launchers (all with a single attachment system, I'm not talking about Viver, in the Picatinny army)? Or do you need b * lt just a bayonet or a bayonet on a fig knife ??? You know, dear ... let's do without this Soviet Mr. and pathos (Technique does not get old morally) BREEEEED !!! ... You then advertise the 43 GV gymnast with riding breeches! Like? Yes, fight ept! who's in the way ?! That's only when two equally trained units, if they meet in battle and yours (God forbid) will be with "just a Kalash", and the other with a "body kit" .... ts you my friend! Let's discuss this topic ??? I'm looking forward to!
              Sincerely.
              1. Timeout
                Timeout 12 February 2014 19: 13
                +4
                Immediately clear, did not participate. Are you going to cling to all of the above? Or ammunition with soldering cut due to stray? Then beloved katana in hand and into battle! Know, on the AK a grenade launcher is placed without any rails and showdowns, in contrast to the western barrels. Bipods on the machine that goat button accordion. Where are you going to use the reputable LTS, or will the enemy give you to direct him to him and wait until you send him to the forefathers? Tactical flashlight, why and where are they going to shine in battle?
                That's only when two equally trained units
                . Well, the KMP has already forgotten how to shoot from open sights, and what is it a plus? Will there be collimators and optics on the battlefield to replace the broken ones?
                Sincerely.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Apollo
                      Apollo 12 February 2014 19: 55
                      +1
                      Quote: Jin
                      Jin

                      Quote: Timeout
                      Timeout

                      I appeal to both. Cool your emotions a little.
                      1. Jin
                        Jin 12 February 2014 20: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Apollon
                        I appeal to both. Cool your emotions a little.


                        A man, a theoretician ... decided to debate ... I’m talking about this, which is higher ... He would defend his dissertations, but he’s crawling into the trenches ... umm ...
                      2. Timeout
                        Timeout 12 February 2014 20: 13
                        +3
                        Apollo, I'm sorry. This boy with a glass got it. He is a super kendo fighter. That is a veteran. At least one argument came from him?
                    2. Jin
                      Jin 12 February 2014 20: 07
                      -5
                      Quote: Timeout
                      You hollow, your Kalash obviously did not kiss


                      Apollo, I heard, ok, no question.
                      And now to you, Clown! If at least someone from my platoon would hear from you like this .... I don’t know what to write laughing

                      Okay, Clown, good luck on the Internet ... Ah, wait! At VO, I’ll see you more than once ... will I see you? GREAT, Clown!

                      Let's talk, write in scrap today ... I'm sorry, Clown ... not to sug ..
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                    3. Jin
                      Jin 12 February 2014 21: 18
                      -2
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Real damn, an online academician.


                      Let the forum users be judges tomorrow for us .... just don't merge. I will explain why you are a LOCH and why I "failed" (if the admins are not banned, then excuse me, Clown), it is difficult with the LOCH ...
                      1. Timeout
                        Timeout 13 February 2014 01: 51
                        -1
                        Boy, what are you upset about? Swords beads in front of goats, an abortion victim!
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Apollo
                        Apollo 12 February 2014 20: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Jin
                        Timeout

                        Quote: Jin
                        Jin

                        I called for order.
                        I’m not repeating twice. To each according to the warning.
                  2. Timeout
                    Timeout 12 February 2014 20: 26
                    +1
                    Quote: Jin
                    Or so you will run with phosphorus flies ... shine with their matches ... do not be offended, clown ...

                    They put a strap on the AK for the nightlight before the emka got into the jungle ... Clown props, damn it ...
                    PS By the way, in the flies and pillars, too, in the USSR, the first began to use tritium.
                    1. Jin
                      Jin 12 February 2014 21: 11
                      -7
                      Quote: Timeout
                      They put a strap on the AK for the nightlight before the emka got into the jungle ... Clown props, damn it ...


                      Look, you really got ... Are you real? Or, pretending ??? Who are you? Where are you from? Where did you serve? I'll have a discussion with you tomorrow, Clown. dumbass, I would kill a deer ... The admins will take away what I wrote to you LOSCHARA !! "! Tomorrow I will roll it out ... remind me, do not look after the work, remind me! I will prove that YOU are the DEER!
                      1. Timeout
                        Timeout 13 February 2014 02: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: Jin
                        Look, you really got ... Are you real? Or, pretending ??? Who are you? Where are you from? Where did you serve? I'll have a discussion with you tomorrow, Clown. dumbass, I would kill a deer ... The admins will take away what I wrote to you LOSCHARA !! "! Tomorrow I will roll it out ... remind me, do not look after the work, remind me! I will prove that YOU are the DEER!


                        I have never seen such stubborn losers ... You obviously have a tantrum! Go, drink valerian if no words. Not a single argument in response. Campaign child, you didn’t even serve, since you are so hard to let foam go. Drive on, and I'll see. My comments have already been cleaned up, and there is nothing for a worthy public to have fun except your nonsense. Until there is more than one evidence, we must stupidly!
                      2. Jin
                        Jin 13 February 2014 10: 05
                        +2
                        Quote: Timeout
                        I have never seen such stubborn losers ... You obviously have a tantrum! Go, drink valerian if no words. Not a single argument in response. Campaign child, you didn’t even serve, since you are so hard to let foam go. Drive on, and I'll see. My comments have already been cleaned up, and there is nothing for a worthy public to have fun except your nonsense. Until there is more than one evidence, we must stupidly!


                        And now about the main thing. Do you need arguments about the fact that progress in the development of an automaton of the AK family should take place? Or for such idiots like you, will it be enough in its original form even after 50 years? You blush here and draw conclusions about me, justify this by the absence of arguments. But it doesn’t reach you that to argue the obvious is just scrap! The only thing I did in vain, went down to direct insults, but you really got it, with your categorical statements based on your subjective opinion. Assumptions are the mother of all mistakes, if not in the know.
                        And now the arguments: I'm not going to throw pearls here in front of ... you. With you, everything is clear. AK is a good machine gun, but if you take off your rose-colored glasses, you will understand that modern conflicts are different from the times of the Second World War and greatly. Hence, new requirements arise for small arms. If all sane manufacturers provide the ability to quickly install additional equipment and do not make an event out of this, like our valiant Izhmash and its "advanced" managers! What, apart from reliability and simplicity, can an AK shooter offer? Installation of an awkward mount for a domestic PSO or night optics? "Awesome" vesch! A ridiculous 47th year fuse box? Why are uryakalka like you so stubborn that they don't want to see the obvious? And through the same, we have released for 20 years VAZ "six" and say, mlyn, the simplest and most reliable, while something really worthwhile is not poyuzat! AK is good, yes! But if I have the opportunity, in a couple of minutes "screw on" a kolyimator or a handle for close combat, and then in a couple of minutes a bipod and GOOD optics for firing at a long distance, then in a couple of minutes, removing it and installing a GOOD NVG or infrared -heat visor, etc., because it is stupidly dark or foggy, I will certainly choose just such a machine! And it is all these "99% unnecessary things in the army" (in your words) that will really increase my chances of survival and high-quality shooting of people like you! Trying to see me through the tritium-radium bars. Moreover, I generally miss the convenience of using a machine gun in case of injury, you are never hurt behind the monitor, and if you save something or use a new life, you have nothing to do with it. And you can draw your own conclusions about me as much as you like, I sneeze at them, as well as at your minuses. Himself never minus. Everything is very clear for me with you. A typical uryapatriot, who has read and picked up just enough. Good luck!
                      3. Timeout
                        Timeout 13 February 2014 11: 15
                        +2
                        Well, what to answer to this, just laugh ... A person who in reality has never used "Picatinny" or the same "Weaver" and never lost a hexagon. Who will give you during the battle to change optics or change the bipod to a grenade launcher, so they simply do not allow this, the bar as a mount allows you to change this or that device in 3 (!) Seconds? And do you think in vain that all the experience of previous wars led to such a fix? Have you even checked your own words for logic? Any modern device released in Russia or Belarus sits on the bar. I began to amuse your arguments of the schoolboy. And this means, except in the pictures and on the computer, I did not see a weapon, a white-rider. Go to the military registration and enlistment office before it's too late, maybe a year in the army will still make a man out of you ...
                      4. Jin
                        Jin 13 February 2014 11: 43
                        +1
                        Quote: Timeout
                        "Weaver" has never lost a hexagon.


                        I use the weaver and now, I have optics on my rifle.

                        Quote: Timeout
                        Who will let you change optics during a battle or exchange bipods for a grenade launcher


                        No need to exaggerate and snatch phrases out of context. Do you understand the meaning of what was written? Or really not catching up?


                        Quote: Timeout
                        since they simply do not allow this, does the strap as a fixture allow changing one or another device in 3 (!) seconds?


                        Only there is no kit itself! And the one that is wretched and lags behind analogues ... So, what you are going to change in 3 seconds back and forth is not clear. What you write about is just a theory. It’s useless to explain to you for a long time. All this is put before the battle. A specific set of additional equipment for each specific task (time of day, weather conditions). You again measure and see at times the Second World War. Hurray, attack, join bayonets! If you are afraid to damage something, do not put anything at all, in the end, with all the ensuing from it (I have already given enough examples on this subject, I'm tired of the same thing)! Do they personally force you? You can arm yourself with a berdank at all, for God's sake, no matter how amuse yourself, just not cry ...


                        Quote: Timeout
                        Go to the draft board, before it's too late, maybe a year in the army will still make you a man ...


                        What kind of phrases. Kindergarten. The term served 96-98, 90 Guards. 6th Guards Tank Division tank regiment. SMEs. Pos. Chernovsky. Samara Region. Deaf already, on this occasion, tired ...
                      5. Timeout
                        Timeout 13 February 2014 12: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Jin
                        What kind of phrases. Kindergarten. The term served 96-98, 90 Guards. 6th Guards Tank Division tank regiment. SMEs. Pos. Chernovsky. Samara Region. Deaf already, on this occasion, tired ..

                        * 6th Guards Tank Lviv Order of Lenin Red Banner Orders of Suvorov, Kutuzov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Regiment; • 68th Guards Tank Zhytomyr-Berlin Red Banner Orders of Suvorov, Kutuzov, Bogdan Khmelnitsky and Alexander Nevsky Regiment; • 169th Tank Proskurovsky Red Banner Order of the Suvorov and Kutuzov Regiment (military unit 65347, reorganized from the 69th MSP); • The 81st Guards Motorized Rifle Petrokovsky twice Red Banner Orders of Suvorov, Kutuzov and Bogdan Khmelnytsky Regiment (military unit 65349). By order of the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation of June 15, 1994 No. 036, the 81st Guards.MsP was given the name Volzhsky Cossack.
                        Department of the 5968th BHVT (t).

                        In November - December 1997, the 90th Guards. etc. was converted into the 5968th guards base for storing weapons and military equipment (tank forces) a, and its regiment is the 6th guards regiment (second formation) department of the 5968th BHVT (t).

                        When the division was reorganized into BHVT, the 81st Guards Petrokovsky twice the Red Banner, the Orders of Suvorov, Kutuzov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky, the motorized rifle regiment was withdrawn from the 1997th Guards in December 90. etc. and is included in the 27th Guards Omsk-Novobug Red Banner Order of Bogdan Khmelnytsky Motorized Rifle Division PrivO. He was stationed in the village of Kryazh (a suburb of Samara) And to whom to stall? To me from this information or to you, a house warrior?
                      6. Jin
                        Jin 13 February 2014 14: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Timeout
                        And to whom to stall? To me from this information or to you, a house warrior?


                        And the 81st, what have you got here? He was transferred from Chernorechye to Kryazh and what? And we were transferred to their barracks by the way (new). Yes, the base of BHVT was so what? There was a technique in the parks, it was prepared for conservation and canned. What's next? Our regiment of about 90 tanks, 30 with a BMP, MTLB, BREM, Kamaz, Krazy and other tail, also stood there ... Like the equipment of other regiments of the division. It was called New Park. There was Old, from the opposite end of the garrison. Or do you think that they drove into the park like that and dispersed everyone? In February of the 97th I was seconded, and returned from a business trip in the spring of the 98th to that very BHVT, to serve. You see, again your silly conclusions ... Well, I immediately said who you are. You dig the Internet and just post it ... What do the posts are clumsy often.
                        By the way, that: 6th Guards Tank Lviv Order of Lenin Red Banner Orders of Suvorov, Kutuzov and Bogdan Khmelnitsky Regiment I didn’t even know that my regiment had so many regalia, I only knew that the guards didn’t somehow enlighten us on this score! Surprised, well done.
                      7. Timeout
                        Timeout 14 February 2014 02: 41
                        0
                        When did you manage to participate, mehan? That I think what all this foam is for. Everything is clear with you.
                      8. Timeout
                        Timeout 14 February 2014 03: 05
                        0
                        And where was your RBD in this case, if there were no hostilities at that time? Participant ... Govnosrach with you on this topic bothered to breed, "veteran"!
                      9. Jin
                        Jin 14 February 2014 21: 39
                        0
                        Quote: Timeout
                        And where was your RBD in that case, if there were no military operations at that time?


                        laughing Uh-huh, like there was no war there (according to your brilliant pearls) ... only here: "They shot" (c) and burst into shreds with landmines, but it's purple for you ... then they spread. But, and how do you know this, it is understandable ... Well, what can I say to you, this is like your stupid "googled" conclusions with the Chernorechensk BHVT base ... Okay, come on, good luck! Major you are our GRU GSh MO ...
    2. vanaheym
      vanaheym 13 February 2014 03: 42
      0
      Quote: Timeout
      By the way, in flies and pillars, by the way, also in the USSR, the first began to use tritium.

      If you are talking about 6CH3 / 6CH6, then they were made on the basis of radium-226, and not tritium. And they are pretty fonty, about 6 millientgen per hour.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 13 February 2014 06: 37
        0
        Quote: vanaheym
        If you are talking about 6CH3 / 6CH6, then they were made on the basis of radium-226, and not tritium. And they are pretty fonty, about 6 millientgen per hour.

        This crap, appeared in 49 on AK. With tritium, it's PDSNIAK
      2. Timeout
        Timeout 13 February 2014 07: 01
        0
        If the index is reduced 6P1. There are no salts of radium here and there; the DP-5V dosimeter is also stored in the weapon room and is checked once a month. So this is complete nonsense.


  • kplayer
    kplayer 15 February 2014 04: 34
    0
    The adversary sees the beam of the LCC, if only he has NVD in front of his eyes, how then can you shoot at night with NVD (night goggles), but without the LEC with an IR spectrometer on weapons?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • vanaheym
    vanaheym 13 February 2014 04: 37
    +2
    If 99% is practically unnecessary, then why do so many weapons look like this in the photographs of special operations in Dagestan?
    If you still need to, then why should people buy and install the same FAB kit and more? What prevents the manufacturer from initially doing what was quite possibly unnecessary in 1947, but became necessary in 2014?
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 13 February 2014 07: 16
      +3
      Quote: vanaheym
      why do so many weapons look like this in the photos of special operations in Dagestan?

      But do they really fight there? Everything that happens there in no way falls under this definition. And in the photo the usual show-offs. The dream of any OWNER. First crawl through the mountains with this body kit, and then speak. Especially when at the most interesting moment a latch on the butt ... All this classmass-siluminovy ​​garbage is made for the average citizen with a self-loading Saiga. Yes, Zenit produces milled parts, so try to dive somewhere with the forearm from it, 2 kg of dirt in the load to the rest of the luggage, or when the tactical handle falls off during the shooting. We had a naturalist, a lover of all this, but in the end he remained with the AK-74M in stock. Not everyone can withstand constant rzhach when he again suffers with another jamb.
      1. Jin
        Jin 13 February 2014 10: 51
        0
        Quote: Timeout
        Do they really fight there?


        No! They measure their pussy there! Are you generally adequate? That's how it's okay to talk to you after that ... It's just a stupor ... the term "War" or "WHO" is a "definition", as you put it, only for those who are not there! People like you, including smart guys! And for those who are there, absolutely on the drum, as you call it, where they kill and maim your friends and you can be killed at once ... and if you are not lucky, cripple ... and if you are not very lucky, then take prisoner ...

        Quote: Timeout
        Not everyone can withstand constant rzhach when he again suffers with another jamb.


        Because the "AK74-M" product is not sharpened for a body kit! So the poor fellow was tormented with self-made ... At least someone reasonable among you was already laughed at ...
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 13 February 2014 11: 37
          +1
          Quote: Jin
          No! They measure their pussy there! Are you generally adequate? That's how it's okay to talk to you after that ... It's just a stupor ... the term "War" or "WHO" is a "definition", as you put it, only for those who are not there! People like you, including smart guys! And for those who are there, absolutely on the drum, as you call it, where they kill and maim your friends and you can be killed at once ... and if you are not lucky, cripple ... and if you are not very lucky, then take prisoner ...


          Do not hide behind high words. And then from pathos now everyone will cry. Everyone who participates in the CTO voluntarily goes there! Someone at the behest of conscience and duty, and someone for the sake of salary. They do their job and know what they’re doing! And war, here is the exact definition:
          War is a conflict between political entities (states, tribes, political groups, etc.), taking place in the form of wars between their armed forces.
          So you didn’t participate in the war or the WHO, so, as it were, to put it mildly, cover the fountain ...

          Because the "AK74-M" product is not sharpened for a body kit!

          If the photo posted by vanaheym, not AK-74M in body kit, so what? Well, a clear connoisseur ...
          1. Jin
            Jin 13 February 2014 11: 55
            0
            Quote: Timeout
            Do not hide behind high words.


            For what and from whom? Is it from you? Not everyone goes there of their own free will, expert! Many are sent on business trips not at their will! It is necessary on duty! GRU say? Zvezdobol ... Are you giving me the terms here? I’m just telling you that the terms for you and your kind, for really warring, do not care what you call it. Or dull again?

            Quote: Timeout
            If the photo posted by vanaheym, not AK-74M in body kit, so what?


            Turn off the fool. I’m talking about those products that our native Izhmash stamped to the last. And what went into the troops in a huge stream and the fact that 95% of the servicemen used computers, I don’t take specialists, is a separate topic ...
            1. Timeout
              Timeout 13 February 2014 12: 03
              0
              Quote: Jin
              which our native Izhmash stamped

              And what did he stamp? What got so many troops? Izhmash kit does not release at all. Sadness, huh?
            2. Jin
              Jin 13 February 2014 14: 32
              0
              Quote: Timeout
              And what did he stamp? What got so many troops?


              Bars Mars, fuck!

              Quote: Timeout
              Izhmash kit does not release at all


              And I'm talking about what! C'mon, bye! Troll, he is also a troll in Africa ...
          2. Timeout
            Timeout 13 February 2014 12: 26
            0
            Quote: Jin
            For what and from whom? Is it from you? Not everyone goes there of their own free will, expert! Many are sent on business trips not at their will! It is necessary on duty! GRU say? Zvezdobol ... Are you giving me the terms here? I’m just telling you that the terms for you and your kind, for really warring, do not care what you call it. Or dull again?

            You are stupid and during all this time. It's very interesting to read you, especially about business trips under duress. A connoisseur is immediately visible, only there is such an expression "tear the contract, piz *** th to freedom" if the team about the business trip does not like it. The terms are so that you get stuck deeper in the sh **, otherwise you try to turn on the smart guy, but you don't know. The last time there was a real war in 2008 was, and you have the behavior of a teenager in puberty, you can't even pull it out for 2008 ...
          3. Jin
            Jin 13 February 2014 14: 49
            0
            Quote: Timeout
            It is very interesting to read you, especially about business trips under duress. A connoisseur is immediately visible, only there is such an expression "tear the contract, piz *** th free" if the team about the business trip does not like


            Well, yes, well, yes! In the army this is called voluntary-compulsory, that does not change the essence, not everyone goes of their own free will, if this is news to you, my condolences. Tear the contract you say, go free? Yeah, and you will feed the children? Plus a career and so on and so forth, and everything is so simple for you. Well, young green, I understand ... If you seriously think that you can confuse me with your wretched terminology, you are simply stupid.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kplayer
    kplayer 15 February 2014 05: 45
    +1
    In MODERN warfare, a "naked" AK decides little, anything, aviation, artillery, or radio-technical, radio-electronic, optoelectronic reconnaissance means, but not infantry with AK in the middle of the field at night (typically without night vision devices, PBS and with tracers).
    1. Jin
      Jin 15 February 2014 14: 21
      0
      Quote: kplayer
      in the middle of the field at night (typically without NVD, PBS and with tracers).


      + Colleague, this is a speech to the Timeout, he has a different opinion ... He does not need anything, he is in the darkness like a cat and in flight like an eagle ... he’s GRUGE, major.
  • Jin
    Jin 13 February 2014 10: 41
    +1
    Quote: vanaheym
    If 99% is practically unnecessary, then why do so many weapons look like this in the photographs of special operations in Dagestan?


    Because Timeout decided so, he lived, he knows! smile In general, my colleague, I am inclined to the idea of ​​no longer arguing with such urya-saber-on-tank ... Sense?
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 13 February 2014 11: 43
      0
      Quote: Jin
      like urya-saber-on-tank ... Sense?

      And you mean with a katana in hand, a bokken in the ass? I did not know that you had such a sewage system in your head ... That's the reason for verbal diarrhea.
      1. Jin
        Jin 13 February 2014 11: 58
        0
        Quote: Timeout
        And you mean with a katana in hand, a bokken in the ass?


        And you want to say that you are a GRU major? laughing You’re a small child, not smart ... And I, went bankrupt yesterday ... Okay, not sts, a soldier will not offend a child ... anymore.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 13 February 2014 12: 12
          0
          Quote: Jin
          And I went broke yesterday ...

          You didn’t go broke, you had a hysteria like a woman with PMS. It was very funny to watch the launching and pissing boiling water. And now you’re trying to get out, but alas, you won’t be able to get out of this deep wretch, there will be no rehabilitation. So much nonsense, in such a short time ... Life has offended you to see specifically, even if you shred jambs in the virtual.
          1. Jin
            Jin 13 February 2014 14: 41
            0
            Quote: Timeout
            if even in the virtual jambs are cut.


            There is no cant in what I would say to someone like you, who he really is.
          2. Jin
            Jin 13 February 2014 14: 52
            0
            Quote: Timeout
            And now you’re trying to get out, but alas, you won’t be able to get out of this deep wretch, there will be no rehabilitation.


            Yes, you especially need to rehab! smile Without this, I have no life ... "Zvezdun" you have my friend ... there is such a star sore.
  • atalef
    atalef 12 February 2014 21: 12
    +2

    If you think that the Izhmash Design Bureau did not deal with the issues of the shutter delay in the AK or other issues of "tuning", then you are deeply mistaken

    Of course she did, even DAM, noticed, and asks Rogozin so,
    - And why the butt in AK-Israeli?
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Timeout
    Timeout 12 February 2014 11: 37
    +7
    Quote: PROXOR
    Who has Afghan, two Chechnya and South Ossetia

    There is no Ossetia, but there is everything else behind. I will introduce myself, Major GRU GSh MO. Will you speak for everyone? Strange, I and almost 700 people in the brigade did not talk about this. Where did you get out of? From a civil shooting gallery? So please back!
    Quote: PROXOR
    In addition to domestic optics, do not put anything on it.

    Warrior, have you ever seen the bar for fastening with your own eyes? Or so, passed by?
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 February 2014 11: 46
      0
      Quote: Timeout
      I will introduce myself, Major GRU GSh MO.

      Something is not similar. The GRU does not usually office itself. The guys are already quite dizzy. Why talk. Russian warrior he is. What was given to them and is fighting. Even if we assume that you are GRU, then as an operating operative officer of the brigade, I think it’s unlikely to give up the opportunity to tailor the tools of your work to your own parameters.
      Quote: Timeout
      Warrior, have you ever seen the bar for fastening with your own eyes? Or so, passed by?

      Saw, held in his hands, removed / set with the AKS-74. A hefty piece of metal to the left of the receiver.

      And now for the rest: the forum is not a parade ground or military unit. Leave your military jargon where the rest 700 people. Where I go I decide myself, you will be zealous, through the admins of the site I will send you there.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 12 February 2014 16: 56
        +7
        Quote: PROXOR
        Saw, held in his hands, removed / set with the AKS-74.

        1. On AKS-74 there are no bars, if it is not a night lamp. 2. The weapon should be functional, and not a haven with a bunch of crevices and protrusions from rails and frames. In AK, it's just not. He fulfills all the requirements for war at 5+. What do you mean to make weapons for yourself? At the expense of sending, the parcel has not yet grown. I understand that you want to assert yourself, just do not be rude. You have three warnings, not mine!
        1. PROXOR
          PROXOR 12 February 2014 17: 11
          +1
          Quote: Timeout
          I understand that you want to assert yourself, just do not be rude. You have three warnings, not mine!

          Wrong You understand everything. In its own crooked way, as well as through all the comments. And it’s not at all an adult to point with a finger what is written on the “face”. My 3 warnings are just mine. The discussion is only articles, refrain from further discussions in this vein.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 12 February 2014 17: 35
            +3
            Quote: PROXOR
            Wrong, you understand everything.

            I even understand that you are the one that AK except in the game you have not seen, and are trying to puff out your cheeks with the appearance of an expert.
            Quote: PROXOR
            And it’s not at all an adult to point with a finger what is written on the “face”.
            And you have something written on your "face"? I wonder what and by whom? Drink valerian, and do not carry heresy about AK, that's the whole answer. Then they will constructively communicate with you as with an adult and discuss the article, not you.
            1. Jin
              Jin 12 February 2014 19: 14
              0
              Quote: Timeout
              I even understand that you are the one that AK except in the game you have not seen, and are trying to puff out your cheeks with the appearance of an expert.


              VERY I saw a Kalash, so what? Do you have any problems with "roughness" of some kind? Are you against development and modernization? ANY direction that does not develop is dying ... 1947 DOESN'T SPEAK ABOUT WHAT ??? And 2014 ??? Dear, really, stop it, it's not funny already ...
              1. Timeout
                Timeout 12 February 2014 19: 26
                +3
                Quote: Jin
                VERY I saw a Kalash, so what? Do you have any problems with "roughness" of some kind? Are you against development and modernization? ANY direction that does not develop is dying ... 1947 DOESN'T SPEAK ABOUT WHAT ??? And 2014 ??? Dear, really, stop it, it's not funny already ...

                Where did you see him? If so smeared with guan? Show me someone with Skar or FN-2000 in military operations, and I will abandon my delusions. It is not funny that everyone is trying to poke that he is 47 years old. So Browning M2 and its modifications in general grandfathers compared with AK and it does not change for some reason? Or emka to user upgrade, also an old piece of iron. The question is, will the weapons fulfill their tasks or not!
                1. Jin
                  Jin 12 February 2014 19: 48
                  -4
                  Quote: Timeout
                  If so smeared with guan?


                  Clown, and where I smeared him with guan ... show. Answer your words as a man? Or chopping the tops? Are you really all about the whole idea?
                  1. Timeout
                    Timeout 12 February 2014 20: 58
                    +2
                    Are there any other arguments? Go for a walk, child, peers have been waiting! Props...
                2. vanaheym
                  vanaheym 13 February 2014 12: 58
                  +1
                  Quote: Timeout
                  Show me someone with Skar or FN-2000 in the fighting, and abandon my mistakes

                  Well, for example. And many more photos of the participation of the FN SCAR and F2000 in hostilities. Although - Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same war, and the army is not the same ..


                  1. Timeout
                    Timeout 13 February 2014 14: 01
                    0
                    They have no chevrons of coalition forces, most likely private traders. The lower hairstyle is civil and beard, like private traders.
                  2. vanaheym
                    vanaheym 13 February 2014 14: 41
                    +1
                    These are definitely not private traders.

                    Photo number 1
                    A US Special Forces advisor to Bayji Special Weapons And Tactics keeps watch at a site in Ha Al Asari where the SWAT discovered a weapons cache, March 28.

                    Photo number two
                    An Air Force Special Tactics Combat Controller (CCT) sits and talks with Afghani children during a special operations medical engagement mission at a village in Uruzgan, Afghanistan, April 2010

                    Polish GROM in Afghanistan. It is quite clear what is in his hands.


                    Then
                    USAF Combat Controller Mark Forester
    2. Massik
      Massik 12 February 2014 17: 07
      +12
      A hefty piece of metal to the left of the receiver.
      On this "hefty" piece of metal, anything from the available is put and removed in 3s exactly, try it on the "rails", besides, our standard allows you to use open sights, but with the collimator installed on one long "rail" ( like a western shooter) if it happens to be covered with mud, smashed by a random fragment or a bullet and flooded with water, you will have to quickly twist all your optical sights or lay your weapon on one side and aim at the barrel. It will be very bad and scary for you if at that very moment the enemy sticks out from behind the nearest shelter and after 2-3 seconds will let a bullet at you ...
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 12 February 2014 17: 25
        +7
        Quote: Marssik
        You will be very bad and scared if it is at this moment that the enemy will pop out due to the nearest shelter and, after grumbling for 2-3 seconds, will fire a bullet at you ...

        This is the exact answer. Comrade Prokhor just thinks that war is Warface and Contra Strike, where you can come to life ...
        1. xan
          xan 13 February 2014 02: 05
          0
          Timeout and Marsik, thanks. Now I look at this topic more fully.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 13 February 2014 07: 26
            0
            Quote: xan
            Timeout and Marsik, thanks. Now I look at this topic more fully.

            You're welcome!
      2. vanaheym
        vanaheym 13 February 2014 13: 37
        +1
        Quote: Marssik
        On this "hefty" piece of metal, anything from the available is put and removed in 3s exactly, try the same on the "rails"

        It’s very simple - for rails for years xs how many years quick-release fasteners have been produced. Everything is removed and put into place very quickly.
        On the other hand, putting trims and stuff on weapons that were not originally intended for this is extra crutches.
        At the time when I owned the AKSM-MF, I only had a rubberized fore-end and a handle, a side bracket for Midwest optics and a J-TAC 47 DTK from the "tuning". This was, in principle, quite enough without the slats with a body kit.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 13 February 2014 14: 02
          0
          Quote: vanaheym
          This was, in principle, quite enough and without straps with a body kit.

          I will support! This is more than enough.
        2. Massik
          Massik 13 February 2014 16: 41
          0
          Most of the sights are on a dreary rigid mount, a bracket with tightening the bolts, the quick-release version with a key is certainly more pleasant, but it also has a drawback - under fire it is much easier than ever to confuse or forget the number of clicks and the position of the sight on the "rail", and then stupidly shoot at milk seems to be from the zoomed optics ... The position will be saved by a bright-colored marker, but if it is erased it will be bad laughing
      3. kplayer
        kplayer 15 February 2014 02: 34
        0
        Open sights can also be smashed by an "accidental splinter or bullet" in the AK, there may be enough writing beyond measure like "if only if only"!
        That is why the soldiers of all armies take care of their weapons, realizing that their lives depend on its combat readiness, the same applies to the owners of weapons with the AK index. I can't stand the stories about AK, where the weapon shoots without any negative consequences after it is used, then as "tools" repeatedly hitting the rock, the operator "drops" it forward by jumping out of the helicopter, at least one gets the impression that it is used in such a way, speaking of its super-reliability. Although it would be worth noting the super-reliability of the AKM (AK-47 did not use) in comparison with the dubious super-reliability of the AK-74, delays and even failures (wedges) under certain conditions (dust, sand, dirt, ice crystals, hits from the receiver or a side-by-side magazine on a solid ) are with him. So take care of Comrade. soldiers for their weapons, loaded magazines and ammunition, in the field, it is useful even before using the repeated cocking of the bolt of the discharged weapon.
      4. The comment was deleted.
    3. Jin
      Jin 13 February 2014 11: 14
      -1
      Quote: PROXOR
      Something is not similar.


      Man, what is the GRU? You read his comments and how he generally communicates. Compare, at least, with the posts of Pupyrchaty (in meaning, content and presentation), which is called, feel the difference ... A typical, re-read nerd. I, of course, also wrote too much ... besanulo, it happens. But if you omit the matyuki, look at the rest, everything will immediately become clear. Who is hu, so to speak. And look at why he’s chopping something, or rather against what!
  • Arbatov
    Arbatov 12 February 2014 09: 31
    +6
    So, the successes of a new effective manager, Mr. Krivoruchka, began ... But didn’t you try to reduce these costs of your production? At the same time, lower the salary for yourself and the chief accountant? The economy must be economical!
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 12 February 2014 10: 00
      +2
      Quote: Arbatov
      At the same time, lower the salary for yourself and the chief accountant? The economy must be economical!

      on the percentage of "managers" to transfer, and all business. and without "parachutes", bonuses and similar beauty for stuffing theirs pockets at our expense. at the end of the year - conclusions. that's all. but. we live in Russia ...
    2. Vasia kruger
      Vasia kruger 12 February 2014 10: 08
      +1
      Quote: Arbatov
      So, the successes of a new effective manager, Mr. Krivoruchka, began ... But didn’t you try to reduce these costs of your production? At the same time, lower the salary for yourself and the chief accountant? The economy must be economical!


      Well ... there is a suspicion that if a number of individuals sn cut, then the proposal will cost less than in Israel.
    3. Jin
      Jin 12 February 2014 16: 32
      -2
      Quote: Arbatov
      So, the successes of the new effective manager, Mr. Krivoruchka, began ...


      , well, even the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force Krivokrylko, the Airborne Forces of Stropoputov and the Navy of the Tazoplavov ... A complete, so to speak ... set.
  • dv-v
    dv-v 12 February 2014 09: 50
    +2
    Rosoboronexport screwed up - I wonder if one of the haters who didn’t delve into the situation would be fired? reformatting the proposal for a normal businessman is not a problem, only for a Russian official on a salary.
  • Begemot
    Begemot 12 February 2014 09: 59
    +3
    There is no politics or emotions about addictions to a particular example of CO. Jews offered the price of 170 million dollars, and Krivoruchko - 250, that’s the whole difference. For poor Vietnam, these are significant amounts.
    1. igor67
      igor67 12 February 2014 11: 03
      +4
      Quote: Begemot
      There is no politics or emotions about addictions to a particular example of CO. Jews offered the price of 170 million dollars, and Krivoruchko - 250, that’s the whole difference. For poor Vietnam, these are significant amounts.

      Third article of the week, the same. I think that Krivoruchko has nothing to do with it, since the contract was concluded in 2011, the plant in Vietnam is not only built, but also manufactures products.
  • sergant89
    sergant89 12 February 2014 10: 04
    +11
    And Vietnam needs to forgive even more debts (otherwise 10 mln. Will not be enough) and then they will be 1,5 mln. weapons will cease to be purchased, Russia is a generous soul in relation to everyone except its citizens. And about any body kits, no one says that the machine should be like a Christmas tree, but the minimum convenience for use could be introduced if the "Law on Weapons" was changed and allowed to do this small private companies, in the "beloved" by all the United States there are about a thousand of them, and these are jobs, taxes and, in the end, a lot of nuggets and "left-handers", as well as veterans could improve and develop this direction. yes
  • RPG_
    RPG_ 12 February 2014 10: 14
    0
    I hope ours offered a version for cartridge 7.62 * 39, otherwise the main costs would be to go under cartridge 5.45 * 39 since all stocks must be thrown out and tons of new ammunition produced.
  • Petr1
    Petr1 12 February 2014 10: 18
    +3
    If we are talking about arming a relatively small army, then it is much more efficient to use conventional CNC machines, for which you can purchase a special program in order to cut the necessary parts from pieces of metal. Such production is more complicated from a technological point of view !!!!! fool
    You have to pay for a good weapon (stamped parts are less durable and stronger than those made by milling) good - stamped parts are cheap and quality is not, therefore, our industrialists offer the friends of the Vietnamese the necessary equipment for the further production of high-quality weapons !!!!. But the colleagues from Vietnam seem to be worthless, you need to rearm quickly and start trading in low-quality weapons. That's the whole borsch hi god help you!
  • UzRus
    UzRus 12 February 2014 10: 19
    0
    Yes, there is something to think about at your leisure at Oboronexport ...
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 12 February 2014 10: 38
    +1
    I doubt that Galil will work as efficiently in the humid hot climate of Vietnam as the AK. The Americans, at one time, crap with their M-16s. And our diplomatic services need to work more efficiently, why did they write off the debt to Vietnam? Put pressure on them, let them pay, cockroach eaters are bad. And these "effective managers of the new formation" are in one place with a mixer. Let him go throwing a shovel.
    1. Sour
      Sour 12 February 2014 13: 24
      +4
      Quote: bistrov.
      The Americans, at one time, crap one's pants with their M-16

      Do not exaggerate gossip.
      Americans are no stupider than anyone. And they always knew how to make small arms. They would not have kept the M-50 in service for 16 years if at least half of the gossip about this rifle turned out to be true.
      I didn’t shoot from M-16. But I am sure that this is certainly a very successful weapon. Otherwise, it would have long been discontinued.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 18: 20
        0
        I used it in different variations for three years. Lightweight, comfortable, reliable
        1. Alexander.B
          Alexander.B 13 February 2014 09: 42
          +1
          Those who ride Kalina do not understand what a Mercedes is. Have you tried to compare with the same Galil, AR-15?
          1. xan
            xan 13 February 2014 21: 52
            +1
            Quote: Alexander.B
            Those who ride Kalina do not understand what a Mercedes is.

            Sasha, you apparently recently moved to a Mercedes
            enthusiasm and joy has not passed yet.
            1. Alexander.B
              Alexander.B 13 February 2014 23: 12
              0
              This is an allegory. Isn't it clear? AK12 - the same AK74M, only with "plasticity and fitness", fundamentally nothing new. In an amicable way, the AK series was supposed to remain in the XNUMXth century.
    2. Alexander.B
      Alexander.B 12 February 2014 17: 23
      0
      Dear, what car do you have? Well, with any answers, I will say that it is better to engage in sports - running, walking; After all, in order to drive a car, you need to turn in a VU, buy a car, parking (garage) ... This is all to the fact that having a colossal intellectual, industrial and raw material resource, the Russian Federation makes OLD, MODERN, UNCOMFORTABLE weapons.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Alexander.B
      Alexander.B 14 February 2014 10: 58
      0
      Quote: xan
      Quote: Alexander.B
      You can understand only by using, and not reading the comments)

      I see that you are one of those intellectuals who prefer to learn from their mistakes.
      But what about the ability to draw conclusions from strangers?

      Anthropometry and psychological stamina are different for everyone. I know that screams will begin now, they say you know nothing ... in general, I did not serve and did not shoot from a machine gun, not even from a gun. But to our regret, wars win and lose politicians, so my lack of experience does not make me dumber. I am careful about the conclusions and so far I can only refer to analytics.
  • abc_alex
    abc_alex 12 February 2014 11: 08
    +6
    Dear, do not you think that you are not discussing something at all? If the Vietnamese wanted to buy machines for themselves, they would buy machines. And they buy the production of machines. Not the weapon itself, but the PLANT for its manufacture.
    And here it is completely pointless to argue better than Galil Kalash or worse. Since that’s not the point. Israelis are much closer in production logic to Vietnam than we are. They produce exactly hundreds or thousands of rifles, and not hundreds of thousands like us. Therefore, their conveyors, obviously, are designed for a different technological scheme. After all, I want to remind you that we use a unique stamping system, and it’s far from the fact that KK is generally capable, for example, of completely transferring a routing to milling.

    Izhevsk citizens have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of; in the final analysis, they are manufacturers of weapons. But not factories for the production of weapons. They are not focused on the development of technological lines for the production of different volumes of AK. They can only clone their technology.

    And the Israelis likewise clone their own. Why be ashamed that Israel, according to the logic of production, turned out to be closer to Vietnam than Russia?

    Well, as for India, I want to remind you that now they are already fidgeting on the burned one, experiencing "some difficulties" with our alternative fighters :)
    1. Old scoop
      Old scoop 12 February 2014 11: 58
      0
      Previously, Vietnam bought the finished product, now they decided to build a plant. A question arises with equipment, software, personnel, materials, after-sales service of equipment, etc. Again, sale, if they are going, then to whom?
    2. vanaheym
      vanaheym 13 February 2014 04: 47
      +2
      Quote: abc_alex
      After all, I want to remind you that we use a unique stamping system, and it’s far from the fact that KK is generally capable, for example, of completely transferring a routing to milling.

      In order to bend a piece of steel 1.5mm thick, no "unique punching systems" are needed. The Americans independently make these parts on a simple garage press that develops 12 tons at home. Technologically, cutting and bending three pieces of iron, and then joining them by spot welding - is also not God knows how.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 13 February 2014 07: 32
        +1
        Quote: vanaheym
        The Americans themselves produce these parts on a simple garage press, developing 12 tons at home.

        And also do not forget, the factory stamp and poisson and gearbox in order to bend the box correctly and they cost not 1 kilobax. Gansmiths are engaged in this, and not everyone can assemble a normal clone without normal equipment.
        1. vanaheym
          vanaheym 13 February 2014 12: 34
          0
          The matrix and punch for self-bending AK receiver are $ 170 and are quite available for sale. And since, according to the law, a citizen has the right to independently assemble a rifle for themselves without the purpose of resale, many are fond of such a hobby.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 13 February 2014 12: 42
            +1
            Anton, have you tried this poison? I have personally tried 7 different manufacturers, none of which provide normal quality. More or less quality was from "Uncle Jo Gunsmith" private owner, the price is $ 1800.
            1. vanaheym
              vanaheym 14 February 2014 05: 41
              +1
              I live in Ukraine, so I can only enjoy entertainment with weapons registered for me. If we talk about the AK-builder molds, then the lack of result in one person does not say that they are bad. The Americans, quite successfully, collect AK in their garage using inexpensive 12-ton Harbor Freight presses for $ 129 and both purchased and home-made punches.
              There’s some dude who completely shut down the receiver:

              Why are they talking about AK from billets, if our former compatriot collected AKM from an old shovel ...




  • svp67
    svp67 12 February 2014 11: 12
    +2
    Until the modern and true successor to the glory of AK47 appears on the armament of our army, we will "fly by" ... And for this, Mr. Rogozin needs to work more, and not just use the language "grind water in a mortar ..."
  • Alexander.B
    Alexander.B 12 February 2014 11: 48
    +4
    It is generally not clear why Galil is called the successor to AK. Galil is based on the Finnish Walmett. The fact that Galil has a similar automation system does not make him a legacy of AK. All the same, in Russia there is a big disaster with the greed of those who keep it! Sport is developing on a truly serious scale only in the Caucasus, money is all in Moscow ... In short, it seems to me that without such strikes nothing will change - I’m even glad that abandoning the old means the road is open to the new. I think Mikhail Timofeevich gave everything he could, enough to hide behind his name.
  • Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 12 February 2014 11: 50
    +3
    Everything is simple to explain. Usually in self-respecting countries, money from production income is mostly invested in the development of this very production, i.e. in people, in science, technology and technology. In our far-off kingdom-state, most of the money goes into the pockets of "effective market managers" to buy palaces and steamers. The crumbs reach the enterprise and they are enough only to throw dust in the eyes of the tsar and his boyars, as well as to change the signs of the name of the plant. This is how "Koncern Kalashnicov" emerged from a simple Izhevsk arms factory by changing the signboard. The signboard was changed and now, one must think, they are sitting and waiting as if by a pike's command machines with such an ooh .... m label will become the most advanced in the world.
  • CIANIT
    CIANIT 12 February 2014 12: 39
    +1
    It’s just that the production of Ak-101 in Vyatnam will be more expensive than Galila, and Vietnam is a poor country, this is a matter of economy.
  • bunta
    bunta 12 February 2014 12: 55
    -1
    Quote: Pimply
    And partly in this situation Mikhail Timofeevich was also to blame, with whose efforts many promising examples of the Russian rifleman were bent.


    You can’t swear, you can’t reach on the hill.
    Moderator! For such words you need to ban. It is an insult.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 12 February 2014 17: 46
      +4
      Quote: bunta
      Quote: Pimply
      And partly in this situation Mikhail Timofeevich was also to blame, with whose efforts many promising examples of the Russian rifleman were bent.


      You can’t swear, you can’t reach on the hill.
      Moderator! For such words you need to ban. It is an insult.

      I support, oh deceased or good or nothing! Eugene, did you personally participate in these contests?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 February 2014 18: 22
        +1
        We must speak differently about the deceased, both good and bad. Kalashnikov was great and was a landmark. But I do not know the great iconic figures of the undisputed
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 12 February 2014 18: 32
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          We must speak differently about the deceased, both good and bad. Kalashnikov was great and was a landmark. But I do not know the great iconic figures of the undisputed

          Zhenya, there is no doubt ... But he didn’t decide whether the trunk would participate in the competition or not. In terms of a combination of factors, AK won anyway. There are many promising developments, but not one of them has been finalized as an AK. I had the AN-94 and AEK-971 in my hands, but only the AK withstood the outputs without delay.
      2. bunta
        bunta 13 February 2014 00: 21
        -4
        These ev..i cannot imagine life without the fact that something is wrong with someone. They even licked Galil and AK. If there was a great designer Kalashnikov, then he definitely had to make a pod for someone. But Israel Galil was just an angel, well, he stole Kalashnikov's headpiece, so what? It's kosher. But Kalashnikov, he climbed out of his skin to bend a lot of promising developments, he really had nothing to do. This is especially evident in the example of a PC. So what a good machine gun Nikitin and Sokolov had, well, think about it without a screwdriver, he did not understand, well, after the lock he wedged. But he hacked to death "promising model"! Made the machine gun better!

        To the question "What are you most proud of?" Kalashnikov answered
        - "Fatherland" !!!

        This is the answer of the patriot with a capital P. Such a person could not have something to slaughter or crush in his life position, on the contrary, he welcomed any innovation that was useful for his country, because it was above all to him, its meaning!
        You, for ... m, for whom the value of the dough in your pocket is higher than the values ​​of your state, which you created not without our help 60 years ago, cannot understand this.

        And partly in this situation Mikhail Timofeevich was also to blame, with whose efforts many promising examples of the Russian rifleman were bent. With all due respect to his merits



        This is a phrase of spitting into the soul of all Russians for whom the words were and will be imperative:
        "May Russia be exalted, may our names perish!"

        Glory to Russia!
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 13 February 2014 00: 42
          +1
          Hysterical cries Glory to Russia and the tearing of the vest on the chest with a squeak "yes, he insulted all Russians" does not make you a patriot. Cheap ones with pseudo-patriotic squeaks remain cheap, no matter what flags they wave. Folding the gate gop
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 12 February 2014 18: 26
      0
      Do not eat and do not arrange a circus with snot. Just as you do not make a saint out of a great and rather controversial person (and the great ones are not others). Criminals roll up such historians when they are looking for where to dig in from scratch
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 12 February 2014 18: 42
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Do not eat and do not arrange a circus with snot. Just as you do not make a saint out of a great and rather controversial person (and the great ones are not others). Criminals roll up such historians when they are looking for where to dig in from scratch

        Be careful when cornering! Show at least one snot or tear! And are you inadequate, have I been rude to you somewhere? You all know for sure what happened there and from whose words? Calm down and breathe evenly!
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 12 February 2014 22: 34
          0
          I am writing from the tablet, answered the riot
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • alal
    alal 12 February 2014 13: 04
    0
    in Putin’s route, the stock of ideas inherited from the Soviet Union is slowly starting to run out, and there are no new lifters with knees because the thief is stupid ...
    it's only the beginning...
  • Agent 008
    Agent 008 12 February 2014 13: 13
    +3
    And in my opinion, this is a signal in our direction that the Kalash modernization also needs an appropriate ... What, an adjustable butt - isn't it convenient? And the ability to install additional equipment on the machine? Also good! You don’t know how the factories work with us ... We made the maximum profit, with a minimum of investments in modernization and development of a new one ... Well done, the Israelis pushed their machine gun, which was quite good, and they lowered ours a little ...
  • tundra
    tundra 12 February 2014 13: 21
    0
    Israel doesn’t just do anything, (let's guys) hit.
  • Urri
    Urri 12 February 2014 13: 38
    -2
    Quote: Stiletto
    Kalashnikov flew past Vietnam

    - It was Vietnam that "flew by" Kalashnikov.


    Respect. Verily. They will fight with China anyway, sooner or later. But there will be no one to help.
    1. Sirius-2
      Sirius-2 12 February 2014 16: 33
      0
      Why no one? Historically, Russia - kind, unforgettable, forgiving everything helps yesterday's offenders. Then Vietnam refused automatic weapons, but does not curtail military cooperation as a whole.
      Then there was somehow information that the United States, in search of strategic allies in a coalition against China, was moving closer to Vietnam. The war ended 40 years ago, a generation of politicians and the military changed. The balance of power has changed. And geopolitical interests are simply pushing the US and Vietnam towards rapprochement.
  • Mikhalych63
    Mikhalych63 12 February 2014 14: 05
    0
    Today, the price of weapons largely decides, and ours, as always, do not know how to bargain ... enterprises even inside the country raise prices, neglecting management, which is why they are falling apart — people need cheap and high-quality.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Kurbashioglu
    Kurbashioglu 12 February 2014 15: 41
    0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1E9RbgWlPE

    The right things are said by a man. good
  • Megatron
    Megatron 12 February 2014 16: 00
    -3
    Everything in the best Israeli traditions is to steal and then resell.
  • Knizhnik
    Knizhnik 12 February 2014 17: 01
    +2
    Israel is accused by many countries of aggressive behavior in the arms market, knows how to interrupt contracts, one must also do, grumble is pointless
  • georg737577
    georg737577 12 February 2014 17: 12
    +1
    As they say - in all failures, look for a reason in yourself ... I don’t think that a modern AK can surpass enemy brands with manufacturing quality and ergonomics. Yes, and Vietnam is already not the same ...
  • Massik
    Massik 12 February 2014 17: 13
    +4
    Ahah "the Vietnamese will have to retrain" from AK to AK in a fashionable wrapper ??? laughing
    Everything in the best Israeli traditions is to steal and then resell.
    And then Israel in general ??? It's like complaining about a cat as a mouse. The leaders of our long-suffering are to blame for this, for keeping such "blessed" ones (D.URA.KOV cannot be written), which is quite natural, who would better understand the weapons of a former employee of a special unit or a manager who jumped right at the FSB colonel ?? ?
  • Krsk
    Krsk 12 February 2014 17: 17
    0
    But what about: An old friend is better than two new ones? I think "Kalashnikov" will survive without Vietnam in any situation, but will it survive in a certain scenario Vietnam without Kalashnikov? And as God's chosen people like to say, we will see.
    1. xan
      xan 13 February 2014 02: 09
      +1
      May Vietnam no longer fight as it fought with the Chinese and Americans.
      And for a non-total war, toys are also suitable.
      1. Krsk
        Krsk 13 February 2014 07: 55
        0
        God forbid, of course, so that there would be no mess, but with the current foreign policy of pisses, the next time where it flares up?
  • Bogranz
    Bogranz 12 February 2014 17: 18
    0
    [quote = bazilio] [quote = PROXOR]



    [quote = PROXOR] I also remind you that even the Mattresses complained to the manufacturer of a 5,56 cartridge which in the jungle could not allow to shoot through dense vegetation. [/ quote]
    On YouTube there is a video where they conduct comparative shootings from AKM and AK 74 through an imitation of dense vegetation - the result at 5.45 is slightly worse than at 7.62, look and be sure to look. [/ quote]
    At one time in the border troops there was a practice shooting exercise, in which belt targets were covered with masks woven from branches to the level of the "head". And ... they were easily hit from the AK-74 at a distance of about 250 meters. Totally agree with you....
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 12 February 2014 18: 33
    0
    Greed, betrayal, information leakage is the result of a tender ...!
    The management of the concern actively collaborated with Israeli companies, so they themselves leaked all the information to the competitor ....... and of course the frayer's greed destroyed, they thought that the contract was in his pocket and that the customer was a sucker
  • uzer 13
    uzer 13 12 February 2014 19: 48
    0
    The price does not play a special role here, rather the quality of the products. As for the caliber, the assumptions about the unsuitability of the 5.45 cartridge for use in thickets and bushes have been confirmed. You can praise these cartridges as much as you like, but if the Vietnamese see with their own eyes their action in the jungle, why should they buy unusable weapons? According to their anthropological characteristics, one cartridge (7.62 * 39) is one killed enemy. Dragging a box of cartridges on itself and firing in all directions is not their profile.
  • Sergey Sitnikov
    Sergey Sitnikov 12 February 2014 19: 49
    +2
    Funny comments about government contracts)), gentlemen, and who bothered to study the latest 44-FZ 05.04.13))), and then blah and blah with the confidence of militant idiots ???
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 12 February 2014 21: 04
      0
      Quote: Sergey Sitnikov
      Funny comments about government contracts)), gentlemen, and who bothered to study the latest 44-FZ 05.04.13))), and then blah and blah with the confidence of militant idiots ???

      Is it about 5 commercial offers or a single supplier?
      1. Sergey Sitnikov
        Sergey Sitnikov 13 February 2014 07: 02
        0
        A lot of things, but in this context about mandatory competitions and truncation of the list of natural, other monopolies in contracting in principle ...
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 12 February 2014 21: 57
    0
    I looked, read the comments and concluded for myself.
    Nekhai Vietnam is fighting what he wants, the main thing is that our soldiers have enough weapons and ammunition to protect their country, and export is the tenth thing.
    Our assault rifles more than once actually proved that they are reliable weapons, and I don’t give a damn about the rest.
    In their warehouses in bulk, new in oil, we have enough.
  • kplayer
    kplayer 12 February 2014 23: 55
    +1
    Is the AK-12 completely bogged down somewhere? although will it be in the 7,62x39 version? not tracking.
    The 100th series had no trenches, basically nothing new. In my opinion, even conscripts are annoyed by the stock folding on the left side and the fuse-translator (the first in my youth was AKS-74).

    The two-way flag fuse-translator of the firing modes is not so complicated, which allows you to use your thumb to lift your hand from the fire control handle and without distracting from aiming to switch to the desired mode.
    But the folding on the right side and at the same time does not interfere with firing and controlling weapons in the folded state, the butt makes it more convenient to carry over the shoulder and it is understandable that the transfer of weapons from marching to the combat position (when it is on the chest or at the belt ) is also more convenient.
    1. Jin
      Jin 13 February 2014 11: 27
      0
      Quote: kplayer
      although will it be in the 7,62x39 version? not tracking.


      Will be. It is developed under 5,45, under 7,62 ours and under 5,54 NATO ...
  • Megatron
    Megatron 13 February 2014 00: 00
    0
    It's like complaining about a cat being a mouse.

    Yeah, current israel is a cat on a leash from the usa that eats free sour cream (green cabbage)
  • garik77
    garik77 13 February 2014 01: 01
    0
    All or almost all transactions in Asia have a corruption component ...
  • kplayer
    kplayer 13 February 2014 09: 00
    +1
    Quote: Megatron
    It's like complaining about a cat being a mouse.

    Yeah, current israel is a cat on a leash from the usa that eats free sour cream (green cabbage)

    What are the dividends for the states? This is not even American rifles and carbines, incidentally received at one time by Israel at symbolic prices as military assistance.
    Quote: garik77
    All or almost all transactions in Asia have a corruption component ...

    Those. Vietnamese government officials and military bought IMI (IWI)? and we don’t see the obvious difference between 250 and 170 million and between AK-103 / -104 and Galil ACE-31 / -32!?
  • Alexander.B
    Alexander.B 13 February 2014 10: 50
    +1
    If in the 40s and 50s no one had moved new developments, now they would have run with three-rulers.
  • xan
    xan 13 February 2014 21: 46
    -1
    as I understood from the discussion, Kalash is morally obsolete.
    But he also understood that there were no serious advantages for Galil over Kalash, as well as for the same brand.
    Izhevsk citizens need to calmly develop a new apparatus, and the good old Kalash will still serve.
    1. Alexander.B
      Alexander.B 13 February 2014 23: 13
      +1
      Quote: xan
      as I understood from the discussion, Kalash is morally obsolete.
      But he also understood that there were no serious advantages for Galil over Kalash, as well as for the same brand.
      Izhevsk citizens need to calmly develop a new apparatus, and the good old Kalash will still serve.


      You can understand only by using, and not reading the comments)
      1. xan
        xan 14 February 2014 01: 48
        0
        Quote: Alexander.B
        You can understand only by using, and not reading the comments)

        I see that you are one of those intellectuals who prefer to learn from their mistakes.
        But what about the ability to draw conclusions from strangers?
        1. kplayer
          kplayer 15 February 2014 00: 43
          0
          Dude wanted to say that you have no definite conclusions (dregs!: "Kalash is obsolete" ; What other advantages, apart from ergonomic ones, can there be !? given the same ammunition 7,62x39; for some reason the aforementioned 5,56 mm "Tavor bullpup"; and in the final: "good old Kalash will still serve"), therefore, in your case, only practical use and comparison without logical deductions will help to determine. experience of "their mistakes".
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Ruyk
      Ruyk 7 November 2015 18: 46
      0
      bolt delay is undoubtedly plus galilov, without this it is impossible to be a modern weapon.
  • Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 5 May 2014 13: 53
    0
    VIETNAM MISTAKES !!
  • Ruyk
    Ruyk 7 November 2015 18: 27
    0
    galil ace32 with AKM slide valve of my dreams!