Military Review

Problems of introduction of domestic components in the automotive industry

43
Components


The quality of the equipment produced in a particular country directly depends on the quality of the components and the availability of technology for national manufacturers. This thesis is relevant for almost all industries in all countries of the world. For example, you can look at the path of domestic automakers. The low quality of the components, traditional for the USSR, multiplied by the economic problems observed after the collapse of the Union, made non-competitive all automotive manufacturers using domestic units in their products. The only way to survive in such conditions was the borrowing of ready-made technologies. Such a path usually leads to loss of independence of the automotive industry, loss of technological priority and competence, loss of the market, and, as a result, a reduction in the number of highly skilled jobs, reduction of tax revenues, degradation of industry, economic losses of a particular enterprise and the country as a whole. An example is the GAZ plant. The plant switched to equipping its vehicles with Chrysler and Cummins engines, then attempts were made to localize the production of Maxus and Chrysler Sebring vehicles, which turned out to be unsuccessful. In the end, the passenger program was curtailed, the production of medium-sized trucks fell to almost single-piece, and the GAZel-Business automobiles use a lot of foreign-made components, including high-tech ones — clutch, bearings, suspension components and steering. In the car of the new generation "Gazelle-Next", the share of foreign components is even higher. In the shops where the Volga car was previously produced, the production of VW and Skoda cars is now deployed. In parallel with the "Gazelle" plant launched the production of light trucks Mercedes Sprinter old generation. In the end, the competence to develop their own cars is almost lost. Unfortunately, a similar situation is observed in other domestic enterprises - KAMAZ and VAZ, which are systematically turning into production sites of world auto companies, without the ability to develop and implement their own technologies.

The existing state of affairs in this area is nothing more than a legacy of the Soviet era, fueled by the influence of foreign capital that imposes outdated technology and left the western market.

Backlog

During Soviet times, there was a proven system for developing and introducing new automotive components and assemblies into production. At the first stage of the work, fundamental and applied research was carried out, mainly by scientific institutions that had the appropriate competence. The research results were transferred to the plants for subsequent implementation. At the second stage, already by the enterprises, development and testing of prototypes was carried out, including in cooperation with institutes. After the development work was carried out, a decision was made to implement this or that development. Managed all this process, including the distribution of financial flows, the Ministry of the automotive industry of the USSR.

Unfortunately, this system functioned well only in conditions of preparation for a third world war and did not fully meet the requirements of the national economy. In this connection, there has been a bias towards technical and technological retrograde. The design of cars produced by one or another automobile plant has remained almost unchanged since their launch into production for decades. There was no need to talk about advanced innovations - at best, it was possible to achieve acceptable reliability of the vehicle and its components.

Bourgeois approach

Due to market processes and fierce competition in the automotive industry, foreign manufacturers could not act based on the decisions of the party and the government, and were forced to rely solely on their own capital. Without state support for success, the manufacturer who offered the best product at the lowest price achieved. The processes of globalization and the struggle for the environment have further aggravated competition.

It should be noted that even a major automaker cannot conduct research and development work in many areas at once, since it requires huge resources. Therefore, so widespread are small enterprises, including venture financing, engaged in the development of a particular technology. The activity of such enterprises is associated with a high degree of risk, but allows you to create truly advanced, outstanding innovations. Some domestic enterprises using a similar model have successfully developed and commercialized. Their technologies can be directly used in the automotive industry, for example, the manufacturer of domestic light-emitting diodes CJSC Optogan or LLC Liotech, a manufacturer of electrochemical energy storage devices, can be mentioned. But...

Advanced Development

Unfortunately, advanced developments in the automotive industry are practically not being implemented. Apparently by inertia, we are trying to use the Soviet approach in the fight against a very strong foreign competitor. For example, in the early nineties, the question of developing a new platform — an automobile tractor (SKSHT) — became acute. The main enterprise was BAZ, and one of the key components for this platform was a new hydromechanical transmission (GMP). In 1995, VNIItransmash created the design of such a transmission. It was supposed to produce samples of this gearbox at the Transmission enterprise, which, not having had time to make a single sample, ceased to exist. All the accumulated potential and the team were lost. In the middle of the two thousand years, the question of the resumption of work on the automatic box for military motor vehicles (BAT) again became acute. However, all attempts to reanimate the GMP success were unsuccessful. A possible reason for the cessation of work in this direction at that time was the reorientation of the Ministry of Defense to the purchase of foreign samples of automotive technology, excluding the development of domestic counterparts. The author is referring to the purchase of Lynx vehicles (Iveco LMV) and 12-10FMX40 tankers on the basis of Volvo vehicles assembled in Russia from Volvo car kits, as well as testing test Centauro and Freccia armored vehicles of the German-Dutch Boxer GTK for further purchase. As a result, SKSHT BAZ is equipped only with a manual transmission, which places increased demands on the driver’s qualifications, has a bad effect on traffic, reduces engine life. The topic of introducing automated transmissions on military vehicles has not lost its relevance. According to the requirements of the Ministry of Defense, promising cars of different types (MRAP, BTR, unarmored trucks) should be completed with engines with power over 500 hp in the foreseeable future. The management of a manual gearbox with an engine of similar power requires a very highly skilled driver.


Prototypes of protected cars "Typhoon-K" KAMAZ-63969 (left) and KAMAZ-63968 (right), equipped with Allison Transmission 4000 gearbox


In confirmation of these words, we can give an example of promising cars of the Typhoon family, which are forced to be equipped with gearboxes of the American company Allison Transmission Inc., a world leader in the production of automatic gearboxes for commercial and military equipment. If KAMAZ and Ural plants can bring these cars to production, then we can well expect opposition from US government agencies in the supply of these transmissions for military equipment. Also it should be taken into account that the transmission control system is microprocessor-based, which means there is no guarantee that it does not have unprogrammed, hidden functions.

Innovation

Understanding this and drawing on the experience of other countries where technological innovation is a good business with huge profits, in Russia, starting with 2006, funds and companies engaged in venture and project financing with state participation were created. Among them are the Russian Venture Company (RVK) and Skolkovo. One of the participants of this event - Venture Fund "VTB Capital" in 2008, was financed by the company "SuperVariator", which is developing a technology that is completely atypical for the Russian venture capital business - a continuously variable automobile transmission. The use of non-standard financial instruments to increase the technological potential of the Russian industry this time proved surprisingly fruitful. The above examples are very controversial - an experienced team who had worked in a particular direction for many years, with state support, the presence of an experimental plant and a customer represented by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation failed to correctly navigate the situation and ceased to exist, and the modest team of a small enterprise managed to do which had never been possible before in Russia. The company has developed an original multi-threaded electromechanical continuously variable transmission - a supervariator. Bench tests of prototypes confirmed the tangible superiority of the supervariator over existing and future transmissions of other types. The average efficiency of the prototype was 94%, and the maximum efficiency in the most popular modes exceeded 99%. The development is completely domestic, as evidenced by the three dozen patents received by the company. Due to the possibility of virtually unlimited scaling, the supervariator can be used on any kind of military and commercial vehicles. According to available information, the enterprise team is developing a promising family of continuously variable transmissions with a capacity of 300-500 hp. which can be applied on the overwhelming number of modern BTA samples. Prospective development can replace American Allison boxes in the composition of the Typhoon cars or mechanical transmissions SKSHT BAZ.

However, the introduction of the above-described innovative technologies in the automotive industry does not occur.

conclusions

The problem of personnel and technology leakage abroad is not new for Russia. In such a complex and costly field as the automotive industry, the technological passivity of enterprises that are not ready or unwilling to introduce innovations, the loss of technology is particularly painful. Unlike modern startups in the field of information technologies, which form the basis of the venture business in Russia, startups in the field of engineering are much more expensive. The high costs and risks of the possibility of creating a very large and long-running business with the life cycle of the product 20-25 years. Under the dire need of creating 25 millions of highly skilled jobs by 2020, this opportunity cannot be neglected.
Author:
Photos used:
OJSC KamAZ
43 comments
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  1. waisson
    waisson 11 February 2014 07: 29
    +11
    and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 11 February 2014 08: 15
      +2
      come up with a box or how stupidly the Chinese rip it off
      In my opinion it is better to come up with. The Chinese method is somehow not patsansky laughing in the bastard will be wassat
      1. Letun
        Letun 11 February 2014 09: 45
        +7
        Here the question already is not about boyish concepts, but about the preservation of the automobile industry, and even in some way, the defense capability of our state.
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 11 February 2014 10: 37
        +4
        Quote: Horst78
        In my opinion it is better to come up with. The Chinese method will somehow not be patsansky in the bastard

        The article says that in Russia they came up with a box that has no analogues in the world, but no one wants to install in factories, there is probably no cutting and rollback. Soon we will see in Japanese when they will buy the patent, and then we will buy from them.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 12 February 2014 03: 01
          0
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          unparalleled in the world

          In my opinion, it’s time to introduce an alternative term, otherwise this one has already become a household word what
      3. sak1969
        sak1969 11 February 2014 11: 01
        +1
        Quote: Horst78
        come up with a box or how stupidly the Chinese rip it off
        In my opinion it is better to come up with. The Chinese method is somehow not patsansky laughing in the bastard will be wassat

        To introduce something new in Russia is a big problem.
        And (rip off), too, must be able to. Well, the Chinese know how to rip off, well done, but we are far from this.
    2. Vasia kruger
      Vasia kruger 11 February 2014 09: 42
      +8
      You can think up, I think you can do it too, but what for? It’s more profitable to buy because there are such words as rollback and drank. There is a sad feeling that it is more profitable for us not to produce high-quality and new things, but to stupidly bankrupt everything, and then to cut state money allocated for support. But this is all a personal evaluative opinion.
      1. wei
        wei 11 February 2014 21: 28
        0
        Buying is more profitable

        still, after all everything is bought to itself
        high quality and new

        Yes, even
        state money
    3. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 11 February 2014 10: 32
      +3
      Quote: waisson
      and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off

      Have you completely read the article?
    4. loft79
      loft79 11 February 2014 10: 39
      +2
      Yes, we can, just do this cap. investments in production: equipment, qualif. staff etc etc Unfortunately now loot rules everywhere. (It’s easier to buy than to build and raise industry.
    5. AnaBat
      AnaBat 11 February 2014 11: 32
      +2
      Quote: waisson
      come up with a box or how stupidly the Chinese rip it off

      If it’s still a bit with iron, then with electronics, everything is much more complicated ... it will be required planned modernization defense institutes and enterprises with the involvement of qualified employees who will not immediately become such! They need to be trained in relation to the specialty ... years will go by that !!! yes
      We need a government program for the development of the defense industry yes with annual checks and reports where they shared the loot!
    6. Professor
      Professor 11 February 2014 12: 03
      +3
      Quote: waisson
      and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off

      Quote: waisson
      and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off

      The problem is not "invent" or "rip off". The problem lies in making, or rather in technology. For example, a cylinder with a laser-treated surface to increase wear resistance. To do this, you must at least have surface preparation technology and laser technology. It can and is possible to rip it off, but it is far from trivial (in any case, neither the Chinese, no one else could rip off).
      1. Kir
        Kir 11 February 2014 22: 57
        +1
        Oleg, but you, when you were an employee of one of the research institutes (if I remember correctly) in the Ukrainian SSR, you must know that laser equipment has been in production for a long time, and not only imported, but that before the "school" of training technologists, yes strong enough, enough to remember such a bitter joke (I apologize for the first part really badly remember) "..... not yet an engineer", but with regards to ripping off there were experiments, well, what is the result in most of the quality is lower than the original, but another thing is why We We ditch our own, and let us drool like theirs, this is worse and no breakthrough technologies will help here, forgive someone. Brains need to be changed !!!
        1. Professor
          Professor 12 February 2014 10: 19
          +3
          Quote: Kir
          Oleg, but you, when you were an employee of one of the research institutes (if I remember correctly) in the Ukrainian SSR, you cannot but know that laser equipment has long been in production

          Lasers are different lasers. But even the presence of a laser, even the most modern, means the presence of only a tool. But technology is a whimsical, expensive and unique thing.


          Quote: Kir
          here forgive someone Brains need to be changed !!!

          It is necessary for the engineer to get more than office plankton and then everything will work out.
          1. Kir
            Kir 12 February 2014 17: 59
            0
            For all 100-plus they are right, BUT there is such plankton not only of our own, but also convenient for those directors that against the background of zeros they are 1, and against the background of Engineers it is not only -1, but -5 (this is such arithmetic) , then an Engineer, as you perfectly understand, forgive the product piece and Expensive in "Production" - Continuous learning, and how many universities are ready to "deliver" it, but I don't want to rivet the managers, but the fact that this minute "economy" then overlaps many times spending and they got ......., they got their money, so if she was responsible for the graduated personnel up to the "black mark" not only for teaching, but also for life, then something might be wrapped around.
      2. Alekseev
        Alekseev 22 February 2014 12: 15
        0
        Quote: Professor
        The problem is not to "invent" and not to "rip off". The problem lies in making, or rather in technology.

        Words are not a boy, but a husband!
    7. Sambo russia
      Sambo russia 11 February 2014 13: 12
      0
      That is, there is no head for development, and if they have developed, then there is no industrial base to implement it, but there is no money for its construction either ((((
    8. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 11 February 2014 14: 01
      +4
      Quote: waisson
      and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off


      Here we depend only on uro.do.v in power. As soon as a more or less reasonable economic policy appears, technical rearmament will immediately begin. People are not ready to stop operating enterprises for the sake of unclear prospects.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 11 February 2014 14: 40
        0
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Quote: waisson
        and here we are dependent on amers. Is there really no way to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip it off


        Here we depend only on uro.do.v in power. As soon as a more or less reasonable economic policy appears, technical rearmament will immediately begin. People are not ready to stop operating enterprises for the sake of unclear prospects.



        Auto components have always been the sweetness of the Soviet automobile industry. Accordingly, the design school was weak. Now it has only become worse. It is no accident that when our auto corporations analyze their strengths / weaknesses, they are always weak: clutches, brakes, hydraulic systems, on-board electronics, turbochargers, fuel injection pumps, and others.
        Well ... the main thing is not even the design - in the end it can be stolen / bought.
        The main thing is technology and technological discipline. But with this, nothing at all. Hence the problems with the resource, reliability, quality.
        It is worth noting that car manufacturers all over the world use components of the same suppliers - now by the way, and our companies are on this path. And it seems like this is the only way
      2. max702
        max702 11 February 2014 15: 02
        +1
        Everything depends on power, but it’s the head, and now take a look whose interests our power represents? only it is necessary to judge not by words, but by those who hold power .. And on this basis, one does not have to rely on the right decisions, they will not organize production, but selling the technology is easy if they haven’t done it already ..
    9. Alekseev
      Alekseev 22 February 2014 12: 13
      0
      Quote: waisson
      are there really no heads to come up with a box or how the Chinese stupidly rip off it

      What does it mean in your opinion - "stupidly rip off"?
      Reprint on a 3-D printer?
      Unfortunately, it is “stupid to rip off”, say, the same gearbox means to “rip off” along with it a technological line that allows producing parts of proper strength and accuracy, materials are also “ripped off”, well, well, trained personnel somewhere. " rip off " yes
      You don't have to "tear". And do it all yourself. Everyone wants it, but it doesn't always work out.
      In particular, when Stalin ordered the "rip off" of the B-29, in order to get the Tu-4 it was necessary to modernize entire branches of the military-industrial complex.
      And then, it turned out not an exact copy.
      But you still need to "borrow". Like the Chinese. examples are the UMZ-412 engine, some artillery systems, MAV and BAV amphibians, etc.
  2. Denis
    Denis 11 February 2014 07: 54
    +4
    Low quality components, traditional for the USSR
    It sounds disgusting. The quality was not due to the fact that they were crooked, they just thought that they were already "grabbing". When they had to do it. Suffice it to recall Brezhnev's never-used reserve limousines, and KAMAZ did not make a winning rally in some Detroit
    the purchase of Lynx vehicles (Iveco LMV) and 12-10FMX40 tankers based on Volvo cars assembled in Russia, as well as testing tests of the Centauro and Freccia armored vehicles, the German-Dutch Boxer GTK with a view to their further acquisition
    But this is already a diversion. With this approach, there will never be any quality
    And who equips the army with the equipment of a likely enemy and other not quite friends?
    We must not finish off our car industry and train designers
    1. AGM-114
      AGM-114 11 February 2014 08: 30
      +4
      Quote: Denis
      We must not finish off your car industry

      He should be prescribed regular medical cots. Especially kamaz - this is not the case when a fresh kung only from the factory falls apart fucking barely leaving the park.
    2. morozov_n
      11 February 2014 10: 49
      +7
      KAMAZ winning the rally, as well as Brezhnev's limousine - piece goods, is very expensive.
  3. poccinin
    poccinin 11 February 2014 08: 26
    +1
    robotic convoys are being tested in the US. auto-platforms with artificial intelligence. In ENGLAND, a mini-helicopter for an infantryman 16 grams is being tested to observe the surrounding area "black wasp" PD100 about 300 pieces are in AFGANESTAN.
  4. saag
    saag 11 February 2014 08: 32
    0
    innovations are innovations, but for now they will chase profit margins by buying cheap steel from Severstal and thereby deteriorating quality will never work out anything worthwhile
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 11 February 2014 14: 43
      +1
      Quote: saag
      innovations are innovations, but for now they will chase profit margins by buying cheap steel from Severstal and thereby deteriorating quality will never work out anything worthwhile


      It is necessary to chase the margin - for right.
      And the situation with quality (and, accordingly, the choice of metal of normal quality) magically competitors change. Out of the cars - the presence of only assembly and stamping in the Russian Federation already makes Avtotaz. Stir
  5. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 11 February 2014 08: 38
    +5
    Under the USSR, automatic machines, or rather semiautomatic devices. were put on BELAZ, MAZ., more precisely MZKT. BASES too. Why did you end up with a mechanic for the bases? The semiautomatic checkpoint was installed on LiAZ buses. This box was exported to different countries and put on Ikarus, mostly urban, but were also on the intercity. article advertising "supervariator"? Variators were put on grain harvesters. Well, we were on snowstorms, snowmobiles.
    1. SibRUS
      SibRUS 11 February 2014 09: 15
      +3
      Under market conditions, transport workers will buy what is profitable, and when, for example, a 30-ton BelAZ with a YaMZ-240 eats more than a 55-ton BelAZ 7555 with a KTA engine and an "Alisson" gearbox, it's worth thinking about. I will not remember about LiAZs with automatic machines and gasoline engines. Unfortunately, there are no patriots in business - there are mostly "hucksters".
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 11 February 2014 14: 46
        +1
        Quote: SibRUS
        Under market conditions, transport workers will buy what is profitable, and when, for example, a 30-ton BelAZ with a YaMZ-240 eats more than a 55-ton BelAZ 7555 with a KTA engine and an "Alisson" gearbox, it's worth thinking about. I will not remember about LiAZs with automatic machines and gasoline engines. Unfortunately, there are no patriots in business - there are mostly "hucksters".


        As a rule, ceteris paribus, they will take where the ton-km will be cheaper (at full cost), and for what reason an acceptable service base is available.
        What is right - a manufacturer whose product requires patriotism to buy simply being stupid and lazy parasitizes on buyers, speculating on the substitution of concepts
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. morozov_n
      11 February 2014 12: 19
      +2
      In order not to be unfounded. On BAZ 6402, which is obviously discussed in the article, a YaMZ-2394-type gearbox is regularly installed. The boxes that you give as an example are not just outdated, but rare. The article just gives an example of how we lost the potential in the development of automatic transmissions. According to the author, the two competent organizations in this matter are the Supervator and NAMI, only the first one at least showed the layout, tested it and published some materials on this subject, but NAMI only rendered 3D models, and when then a long time ago, a foam model. Therefore, the supervariant was chosen as an example.
      1. DZ_98_B
        DZ_98_B 11 February 2014 17: 00
        0
        I apologize, but I'm talking about the USSR. The development of these models 60-70 years. for those years, these were very, very advanced examples. But they remained precisely the samples of the 60-70s. By the way, the first BELAZES came with B2 tank engines, but realizing what kind of guano it was, Zhodintsi quickly replaced it with the YaMZ 240. PAKPP not rarities. And advanced technology ... 1970 years !!!! Only these samples are still in operation. URAL. GAS. ABOUT FORGIVING THE LORD KRAZ. KAMAZ DESIGNERS ..... WHEN DO YOU START THINKING ABOUT PEOPLE ?????????
        1. morozov_n
          11 February 2014 17: 22
          0
          The designers are just thinking, but some who are taller are not so;)
  6. ramsi
    ramsi 11 February 2014 08: 42
    0
    It would be reasonable to have state-owned enterprises in key areas with "greenhouse" conditions, which would require not a sales plan, but the release of competitive products: it is stupid to take the best samples and try to do better, at least in small batches. So, you see, the technological chain would slowly lengthen ... There is no hope for business here
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 11 February 2014 14: 47
      0
      Quote: ramsi
      It would be reasonable to have state-owned enterprises in key areas with "greenhouse" conditions, which would require not a sales plan, but the release of competitive products: it is stupid to take the best samples and try to do better, at least in small batches. So, you see, the technological chain would slowly lengthen ... There is no hope for business here


      Actually exactly the opposite. The whole world seems to have proved this. In China, it is private enterprises that become competitive - the state only pulls up much later.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 11 February 2014 19: 21
        0
        What you are saying may be in an era when the nation is "gathering stones"; we are still "scattering" everything
  7. SibRUS
    SibRUS 11 February 2014 08: 45
    +2
    Basically, I agree with the author of the article. To understand the depth of the problem, you have to go back to the 90s, it was then that the country created all the current problems. It was when the factories were released into "free floating" they began to destroy the design bureaus, and the depreciation deductions went into the pocket of the owner-"privatizer".
    The consequence of this policy:
    1. The machine park was not updated; production lagged behind several generations;
    2. Forgotten about innovation;
    Bottom line: engineering has been destroyed nationwide, and this is the core of any state that seeks to produce its own competitive products!
    What they saved, it works, but the production chain is broken - therefore they are forced to take impotent components.
    Enormous costs are needed to restore broken chains.
    1. Silent
      Silent 11 February 2014 10: 53
      +3
      It is a vicious practice to assume that all problems are from the 90s. I don’t know how you have in Russia (probably also), but in Belarus still there are machines from the Second World War, and sometimes even older ones, often exported from abroad. Problems and technological lag began long before the collapse of the USSR. Take a look at least at the Soviet automobile industry, and about other serial industrial designs as well. In a free market, they would not be competitive even in Soviet times.
    2. Argon
      Argon 11 February 2014 12: 38
      0
      Dear SibRUS, in what do you agree with the author? After all, the article makes it clear to us that the current situation is actually a "difficult Soviet legacy", and not a consequence of "democratic reforms" carried out for the last 25 years. All the basic principles of optimization of large-scale production, the author turns upside down Most of the cited examples are distorted, in particular, the situation with the production of Sebring at GAZ was caused not by an attempt to qualitatively improve the level of our cars, but by a scam with the purchase of a robotic assembly line (the generation before last) of Chrysler, for the disposal of which the US government had already paid him. Chrysler happily sold it at the price of scrap to a certain automotive company, and this company at the price of "advanced technologies" to the government of the Russian Federation (I am exaggerating a little, but in the end the money was spent by the state). As a result, a car that was absolutely not adapted to our conditions appeared on the conveyor to dismantle the battery, you need to remove the front wheel!) .In the article, you impose on us In fact, the structure of the American military-industrial complex-venture (joint, it is not clear from where it was taken) financing (damn it) of small NGOs does not say that such projects are always designed to attract a third-party, experienced developer and purchase his technologies (as an example, the Abrams tank, our "Orsis T5000", "Strizh"). Such an approach does not make it possible to consolidate all the resources to create a product that is anabiosis of breakthrough level technological solutions (the United States has not been able to create an analogue of the OSA air defense missile system, although it owns all the technologies). in essence, the design group of the factory design bureau dealing with the topic of transmission with automatic change of the transmitted power should be allocated to a separate enterprise, loading it with a staff of managers and controllers, plus all economic relations with the "parent" enterprise will have a fiscal fee - will this end product reduce the cost? In the situation with KAMAZ, we can say that the light did not converge on the Allison, there is ZF, Eiser ", Korean manufacturers, as well as the" Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant "itself, which produces a whole range of similar transmissions for engines with power from 260 to 550 hp Draw your own conclusions.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 12 February 2014 10: 14
        0
        Quote: Argon
        In the situation with KAMAZ, we can say that the light on the Allison did not converge like a wedge, there are ZF, Eiser, Korean
        [/ comment-show]
  8. Rash
    Rash 11 February 2014 08: 55
    +1
    Russia has always been strong in the creation and production of military equipment. Be it small arms, tanks, planes, missiles.
    But in civil engineering almost always there were borrowings based on imported samples. Even with industrial espionage.
    In my youth I served computers: SM3, SM4, SM-1600. All of them were presented as innovative domestic developments, but in reality they were stripped from imported samples. That's what China is doing now, cloning our BT.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 11 February 2014 14: 56
      0
      Quote: Rash
      Russia has always been strong in the creation and production of military equipment. Be it small arms, tanks, planes, missiles.
      But in civil engineering almost always there were borrowings based on imported samples. Even with industrial espionage.
      In my youth I served computers: SM3, SM4, SM-1600. All of them were presented as innovative domestic developments, but in reality they were stripped from imported samples. That's what China is doing now, cloning our BT.


      The automotive industry in general has a mediated relationship with military technology.
      Stealing a construction is not a sin if you can produce it. However, it’s difficult to create your own school.
      And with the auto industry, the real explanation may be that the auto industry, especially large-scale production of trucks, is in fact the pinnacle of human ability to organize production: each car has about 30000 parts. We can say that in an efficient production all these 30000 parts must move synchronously on a heap of plants with a cycle time of 3-5 minutes, despite the fact that 70-80 trucks of 30-40 variants are simultaneously on the main conveyor. In all other types of production - either synchronization cycles are much larger, or individual assembly, or vice versa - the products are more of the same type.
      And also competition forces the cost of ton-km to constantly decrease.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 12 February 2014 10: 07
        0
        Quote: cdrt
        The automotive industry in general has a mediated relationship with military technology.

        Yes?
        And in case of war, will we move in five?
        And we will place all cargo and special equipment for horse-drawn carts.
        Think next time what you write.
  9. Owl
    Owl 11 February 2014 09: 33
    +5
    While it will be FAVORABLE for the heads of "all levels" to buy "Lynx", "basins" from the company "VOLVO", humiliate and kill domestic production, and appoint "red-haired" Chubais and "thieves in law" like Serdyuk with thieves to important and significant positions. bl ... kim battalion - there will never be anything domestic, worthy of the State.
  10. Gray 43
    Gray 43 11 February 2014 10: 09
    +4
    Do not forget that apart from the automatic transmission for BAT there is no reliable and economical engine with a capacity of over 400 hp. The stand KamAZ trucks are equipped with imported engines, I think that with serial production from the overseas regional committee a corresponding recommendation will be received on the ban on supplies. The West will not give us high-tech projects for anything
  11. Rus2012
    Rus2012 11 February 2014 11: 02
    +3
    Backlog
    Bourgeois approach
    Advanced Development
    Innovation


    ... not everything is so simple in the automotive kingdom even of the West ...

    My friend has long gone abroad.
    Happily works in the design bureau of one of the coolest founders of the car
    So according to his stories:
    - Since 1998 of the year, all heights in all auto giants that set the direction have been taken by MRCTs (marketers) and the main indicators for the car model now are
    "creativity", ie the model range changes annually with minimal changes to the base (engine, transmission ...), but the "curvature of lines" of the body design, external visual indicators - paints, LEDs, chrome parts, body trim, "start-stop", "environmental friendliness" - for example, preliminary filling of the catalyst with gasoline !!! (heat it up) - since the start-up, the CO was in line with the standards ... and yes, and yes ...
    On those parameters - by and large they put "big and fat"
    Previously, the oil was changed - 10 thousand, wait "long life" - 15 thousand, we must think that the engine will work out the resource faster. Previously, German engines in passenger cars ran for 500 thousand km, wait-150 ... 200 from power ...

    Previously, as we recall - in the first place - efficiency, resource, maintainability, service life ...

    And moreover, he showed me his workplace - in the old building of the end of the century before last, without kondeev ... But MRKT is in an ultramodern, high-tech building with swimming pools on the roof ...

    Moreover, mass production-brought to Asia-America ...

    Takchto, and not everything is already in order there.
    1. morozov_n
      11 February 2014 12: 08
      0
      You are talking about cars, and the article is about BAT and Commercial vehicles, nobody will look at the contours and forms, much more important - mobility, mobility, security, maneuverability, specific indicators of mass and thrust-weight ratio. For commercial vehicles - profitability, reliability, low acquisition price, high productivity, long life, payback periods.
      And with regard to everything written, it makes sense for you, as a consumer, to pay attention to cars like Renault Logan, it most fully corresponds to the indicated ideas about beauty, both in terms of resources and in terms of consumer properties. For some, comfort and image may be more important than "technical parameters", it is precisely for the second group, as it is right to be much more solvent, that marketers work.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 11 February 2014 12: 39
        +1
        Quote: morozov_n
        The article is about BAT and Commercial Technology
        all this is also based on the same achievements, isn't it?
        For comparison, look at commercial equipment and non-commercial, for example VW in two versions -
        commercial for cargo
        family minibus,
        - all on one base
        well, if you find two differences in performance ...

        As for the military ... there is also a stick with the same end ...
        The military is increasingly recalling and putting pressure on the next argument - "morally outdated" ...
        Just the other day, the Amer’s general lamented that the on-board computer on f22 was an old toy computer

        About -
        For commercial vehicles - profitability, reliability, low acquisition price, high productivity, long life, payback periods.

        - it should be so, BUT, alas, for a long time not TAG !!!
        Wait just exchanged opinions with a specialist in the sale of commercial equipment - the trends are the same as I said above - from year to year - prices rise, reliability-resource falls (the EU recommends a max of 5 years of operation). Accordingly, the cost of a business using communal equipment is growing at a rapid pace ("percentage by percentage", as you know) ...
        Accordingly, cunning businessmen are already trying to change their equipment no later than the warranty period - for the cost of operation will increase incredibly! And this is 2-3 a year just ...
        Look at a taxi (comtrans incidentally) -after 3x years they are only in junk ...

        Look at the haulers, not further than 10 a year ago they walked miln.km to the cap ... Wait a moment, after the cap-toko, they are allowed to enter the secondary-third market ...
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Bootlegger
    Bootlegger 11 February 2014 17: 04
    +2
    In the USSR there was enormous experience in creating closed cities. It’s easy to repeat this idea. A city where social problems are solved. Where you can live and create normally. Gifted people. A city without private capital. Criminal. Foreigners and politicians. Social and economic centers producing high-quality components for Russia. and not to drive violence but to bind it with an agreement. and under the control of the FSB. Stalin’s sharashki gave 21 centuries where people again feel like people and not cattle.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 11 February 2014 19: 02
      0
      Quote: Moonshiner
      In the USSR, there was enormous experience in creating closed cities.

      But a wise thought! hi After all, people in Russia who don’t have enough money didn’t transfer. Give them professional and creative self-realization! Unfortunately, I had such an opportunity at one time ... Family, family ... My wife categorically refused to leave for the closed city, where, by the way, I was given 1 room apartment by distribution ...
  14. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 11 February 2014 17: 58
    +1
    <<< an example of promising cars of the Typhoon family, which are compelled to be equipped with gearboxes of an American company. If the KAMAZ and Ural factories are able to bring these cars to production, then it is quite possible to expect opposition from US government agencies when supplying these transmissions for military equipment. It should also be borne in mind that the transmission control system is microprocessor-based, which means there is no guarantee that it does not have unprocessed, hidden functions. >>>
    Finally, it begins to reach supporters not to be afraid to import foreign military equipment (well, the whole world today imports equipment and components) that Western companies still have a special attitude towards Russia behind the external courteous "partnership", "reset"! Russia was and remains the MAIN PROBABLE POTENTIAL enemy of the Western world! Therefore, large and small countries of the West buy military equipment from each other and cooperate in its production, knowing that they are all on the same side, but they will NEVER share their latest technological and other secrets in the production of military equipment with their PROBABLE enemy, but by selling to him components, electronic filling will try to make it work "as it should" at the "right moment", and components and spare parts for it simply will not be supplied. So Russia has no other choice but to develop a full production cycle of military equipment, including components, electronics, etc.
  15. corn
    corn 11 February 2014 20: 52
    0
    reference:
    In the early 70s, when the Volga (car) was already difficult to compare with the Volvo, there was an article by the director of the GAZ plant in the Literaturnaya Gazeta, where he admitted that it was not a problem to design a car, but we could not do it because of the lag in technology ...
    The construction of the VAZ plant, in my opinion, is a consequence of the same reason.
    1. Kir
      Kir 11 February 2014 23: 02
      0
      Excuse me to a small extent. VAZ is a policy, not an acquisition of new technologies, all the more there were others who wanted it but preferred the help of Fiat (the Italian Communist Party, if I remember correctly), but what is even more paradoxical. so it is that by that time already a ready-made model at a very decent competitive level was already at AZLK.
  16. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 12 February 2014 09: 23
    0
    Russia has got production capacities and bright heads that they can invent anything and embody in iron.
    But there is a nuance, all these people are not the elite of our society, unfortunately, and everything in our country is organized not for the development of the creativity of such people, but everything is organized under a bunch of ue ... new from bureaucrats and their major geeks.
    All this is put into action with the help of the Chaldeans-pi ... owls, which we call "effective managers" or "economists" (bookkeepers). All this evil spirits fancies themselves the elite of "society", although in fact they are parasites that do not produce anything, except endless chatter and tons of bureaucratic muculature, in the form of orders and CU. They have already done so much of these excrements that they themselves cannot figure out where and when, what law they have sprinkled at the right time, and with "great work" combining them all are lost wondering how to do something with these conflicting pieces of paper.
    It is from here that what happens in our country.
    And the real elite of society dies out or is rejected, infected by these parasitic viruses, as it happens in a living organism that over time gets tired of fighting and dies from an unbearable disease. But you should not forget that when the carrier dies, most of the parasites die.
    Until we cure our country of parasites, neither serial Typhoons, nor Armat, nor our new engines and GMF, and nothing else in the required quantity, we will not see.
  17. quaint
    quaint 12 February 2014 13: 56
    0
    At one time, a 5-tbsp.box was ready for UAZ production. But the host manufacturer did not want to invest in production. Result - Chinese and Korean UAZ gearbox