Military Review

Armored car

60
Time to make your armor! When a year ago we told about the experienced Highlander-K armored car for the Interior Ministry troops, its creators promised: “You will be the first to see the following model after us and the customers.” And we kept our word: we got acquainted with the newest Federal-M based on the Urals, and at the same time with its competitor Ural-VV and other interesting armored vehicles that appeared in our country.


Armored car

“You speak on the barrier:“ On the reservation ”- and you are given a permit for production,” representatives of the Moscow “Special Equipment Institute” instructed me (this is the defense division of the Technique enterprise, which produces armored cars).

Who would have thought that a dozen kilometers from the Kremlin make the latest technology for the defense industry! There are business-like welders, sparks fly from under the “Bulgarians”, the designers hang over the drawings behind the wall ...

At the gates of the production building there is the newly built and declassified Ural Federal-M, a typical representative of “armored carts”: this is what new cars based on trucks (or with “cargo” units) for the transportation of fighters can be called.

In our country, something similar had already existed many years ago: remember, say, the BTR-152 on the ZIS-151 units! These dinosaurs still serve in many countries, from Afghanistan to Ethiopia ...

Then, the role of "infantry carriers" for a long time was performed by traditional armored personnel carriers, until the experience of local wars showed that we need another transport: more comfortable and spacious, with a "car" resource and good visibility, protected not only from bullets, but also from detonation machines denote American abbreviation MRAP).

By the way, armored personnel carriers can move along public roads only with escort, and therefore their participation in special operations, as well as routes, is known in advance - and the operation loses the effect of surprise.

There are two main types of "armored carts" - the army and the police. The military versions (such as Typhoons created by KAMAZ and Ural) protect even from a heavy machine gun, but are heavy, created on the original chassis, poorly adapted for movement in a normal traffic flow, and most importantly, incredibly expensive: the price reaches a million euros!

But the Ministry of Internal Affairs in hot spots needs other MRAPs, not so powerfully protected, but inexpensive, easy to maintain and as close as possible to the characteristics of cars, which is why they are made on the chassis of production trucks.

Heirs "Pokemon"


Column Uralov Federal goes to the south: this year made about 60 machines


During a recent trip on the Gazelle Next to Voronezh, we met a convoy of brand new Ural Federal - the usual Uralov 6х6, but with body armor and a "armored vehicle" in the back. Apparently, these are machines from the recent state order of the Ministry of Internal Affairs for 50 bullet-proof Uralov (5,34 million rubles per car) and five more explosion-proof (7,87 million rubles per unit).


Federal-M in the process of construction. It is clearly seen that the body is a solid "capsule". Nose plumage - still from serial machine



“Give the driver a ride!” The Federal-M passenger compartment is combined with a cabin, air conditioning above the heads


Since the beginning of the two thousandth, hundreds of armored Urales have been delivered to the Caucasus, and the fighters call them Pokemon - perhaps because the cartoon word “pockemon” stands for “pocket monster”, “pocket monster”. Despite the simplicity, "Pokemon" (now they are released by the aforementioned "Institute of Special Equipment") perfectly cope with their functions, and it comes to funny cases. During the recent football match in Nazran, the Ingush fans fought with no less hot Ossetians and, in order to defuse the situation, the police took the Ossetians from the stadium to the “Pokemon” - apparently stuffing them there, like herrings in a barrel ...


Armored capsule inside: view after welding



In the back - “anti-overload” seats and anti-shielding wall and ceiling trim


But the Feds even in the explosion-proof version - not the ideal solution. The serial cabin cannot be fully booked from the blast, the men in the back are separated from the driver and the commander in the cockpit and do not see the situation in front of the car, the interior of the “armor” is primitive. The riot police themselves complain that the roofs of the “jackets” of ordinary Feds flow into the rain, and it is inconvenient to jump out of a tall body.


The body has a U-shaped bottom, reflecting the blast wave



From the point of view of the driver - almost the usual Ural


A year ago, we already talked about the Stargazer project — a prototype model of the future of Federal-M — but only possible solutions were worked out on that vehicle with a huge nose.

And now before you is the second in series serial Federal-M on the chassis of an Ural-55571 dump truck-all-terrain vehicle (instance No. 1, which went for testing to the Interior Ministry troops, built on the Ural-4320 chassis). It is made “weighty, rough, visible”, but the main thing is different!


This Federal-M is built on the chassis of an off-road dump truck Ural-55571. Pay attention to the comfortable steps under the body and the cabin


All-welded body-capsule - one-volume. And since the armored carriage is short and sloping, the cockpit windows are large and the windscreen pillars are rather narrow, the visibility is excellent on the sides that are ahead. Access to the motor is convenient: climbed up on the bumper, opened heavy sash - and the engine clearly. Getting into the cabin and getting out of it is also very convenient, since wide and long steps are made along the sides. Design find!


On the driver's seat - excellent visibility, loophole ... And a funny blue fan


I was handed a whole bunch of keys: this one, probably, from the driver's door ... The doors are thick, as many as 8 cm at the butt, and the thickness of the armor plate is 6,5 mm. “Kalashnikov” bullets with a heat-strengthened core will not be taken (fifth grade of protection according to GOST), and by request, you can protect them in sixth grade from a sniper rifle. Protection against explosion - either from the explosion of three kilograms of TNT (in this instance), or - seven kilograms (in instance No. XXUMX).


The entrance is convenient: even the tank does not hinder much



Under the lid - the filler neck



The rear entrance is very wide, the ladder extends manually


I continue to sort the keys: which one is from the ignition lock? Isn't it time for the creators of Urals and special equipment on their base to switch to keys of only two types: “from the ignition lock” and “from everything else”? And the driver's seat ergonomics are harsh: the steering wheel is not adjustable, the gas pedal stands almost vertically.

Specificity of the setting adds a “plump” camouflage upholstery on all sides and the roof, which is actually not an upholstery, but an AOD, anti-shielding protection. On the one hand, it protects against fragments and ricochet of crazy bullets, on the other hand, it serves as thermal and sound insulation. Even the hatches in the roof are closed by AOZ on velcro. “Our task is not to leave a single section uncovered,” the designers comment. True, the fabric sags under the hatches. And will the stickies lose their "tenacity" over time?

Under the feet of the front riders - special "anti-grip" help: they reduce the effect of the shock wave on the legs during an explosion under the car. The driver's seat, like all the others, is not ordinary, but also “anti-overload”, the patented seats in the cabin have obligatory steps.

Confused only by the fact that the fighters are sitting behind their heads exactly to the bulletproof glass. And the attackers shoot at the windows first! Maybe it is better to place the windows and seats in a staggered manner?

The necessary key has finally been picked up - and the good old YaMZ-236 begins to rumble under the armor cascade. The car in the pictures he meets the environmental standards Euro 0 ... Which is quite acceptable to the African special forces: the armored car was built by order of one of the countries of North Africa. But, we repeat, the first copy is already undergoing tests in the Interior Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and in my shop the machine No. XXUMX was being prepared in the workshop, also for the Interior Ministry troops.

By the way, internal troops will have plenty to choose from: this model has a competitor-classmate - also based on the Urals!


If you raise the armored hood ...



... you can see a spacious "cave" with the motor YMZ-236


Ural with the prefix "BB"

If Federal-M was created by the “Institute of Special Equipment” (but with the support of the Ural plant), the Ural-VV was designed by the Ural Automobile Plant itself, and the armor cases for it were made at the Moscow Research Institute of Steel.


Ural-BB was designed by UralAZ itself, and the body for it was made by the research institutes of steel


The chassis is the Ural-4320 with the new YMZ-536 in-line engine, unlike the aggressively angular Federal M piglet, traditionally Ural and even elegant: "A large crocodile walked down the street." The cabin interior is also more elegant, since the front panel is unified with the Army Typhoon, and the front doors have a plastic trim.

Reservations are not uniform, but differentiated (the “forehead” and the windows are protected more powerfully, in the sixth class of the GOST, the engine compartment is in the third class). But the protection from the explosion is weaker than that of Fedla-M (two kilograms of explosives are declared).


Side doors open in different directions



Rear partition dividing the entrance


There are unusual solutions in the design - a spare tire with a winch on the side (at Fed-M, the spare wheel will be mounted at the back) and a rear ladder, which can be tilted by means of a powerful pneumatic cylinder (it can be folded and folded manually). Under the engine and gearbox - steel protection, which the Federal-M does not have: according to the Urals designers, it protects against fragments, which is verified by the experience of the war in Chechnya.

But, if our will, we would have combined the stylish look of the Ural-VV with simple and reliable solutions of the Federal-M! Do you know why?


Part of the seats is face to face, part is back to back: both layouts are possible.



Climbing into the cabin is difficult: the steps are unsuccessful


The hood of the Ural-BB is decorative, fiberglass: the “nose” of this size limits visibility, and fiberglass is difficult to repair. The engine itself is enclosed in a "sarcophagus" of armored panels with bolts.

- Fighter, check the engine oil level!

- I can not, Comrade Lieutenant, forgot the 10 key on 12.

And will not the motor overheat?

One-piece frontal bulletproof glass of this class, according to specialists, weighs about 350 kg. Hence, its replacement is possible only in the factory! Wiper blades with top mount are bad in winter operation: they will shovel snow under the visor.


The front panel in the cockpit - plastic, original, like Uralov Typhoon. And on the front doors plastic trim



Loopholes - behind the heads of riders: to open them, you need to lift the head restraints


The fact that the entrance to the cabin is extremely inconvenient (I had to get so hot!) Is half the trouble. But since the side door of the cabin opens "against the course", there is a danger that when firing from the front, being even ajar, it will serve as a "bullet trap". And if the bullet flies into the salon, it will begin to “walk” there: although representatives of UralAZ insist that anti-shielding protection is laid under the decorative upholstery (and not everywhere), we doubt it. This protection should be covered with the entire cabin, and it should be separated from the walls by the distance of the bullet core. According to the armored specialists, the plastic lining of the cabin doors is completely unacceptable: with a possible penetration of the armor, plastic is prickled into small sharp fragments that pierce the face and eyes.


Hood - fiberglass, decorative ...



... and under it - the motor in the "sarcophagus" of armor



Ladder flips-raises the pneumatic cylinder, although this can be done manually. Will the fighters open the doors from the inside if the pneumatic cylinder refuses?


A vertical stand in the rear doorway will interfere with the entrance-exit (and stretchers through it cannot be brought in), and most importantly, it weakens the anti-mine properties of the body, which must “play” during the explosion.

Chairs in the cabin - not "anti-overload": they have at least no steps. And although access to the loopholes is more convenient here than from Fedla-M (there it is necessary to remove the back with velcro, and here it is enough to fold the headrest), the loopholes in the cabin are only nine, although there are 13 seats. Four fighters will sit "in stock"?

By the way, the creators of Ural-VV set part of the seats “back to back”, demonstrating the possibilities of alternative landing - that's just, according to experts, this is acceptable only for “patrol-patrol” cars, and those who are not explosion-proof.

And for transport “armored vehicles”, the crew must sit back to the walls - this is psychologically convenient (the fighters talk), makes the cabin spacious (allows putting the wounded, cargo, etc.) and, again, gives the body “play” when undermined (since there are no vertical struts). Finally, the reserve on the right behind the cab is inconvenient when replacing (it will have to be removed from the side of the road) and vulnerable when the car is fired.

And we also got the impression that the Ural residents themselves do not really know the mass of the Ural-VV! On the nameplate, welded to the body, “17500 kg” was stamped, on the accompanying plate that stood in front of the car, it read “curb weight 15300 kg, gross weight 18300 kg”, in the leaflet - “total weight 16500 kg”. So how much is it really?

So, although UralAZ intends to release ten such machines for internal troops next year, the design still needs to be brought to mind, tested, certified ...

And win the tender MIA, which is true for the Federal-M. By the way, it costs from 8 to 8,6 million rubles, but the Ural-BB is more expensive - 10 million rubles.


Rear view with a tilted ladder


"Polis du France"

Iveco defense unit ingloriously missed the Russian market: too scandalous история with Iveco Lynx armored cars (by the way, already decommissioned).

But now the French company Renault Trucks Defense came on the scene: however, at first the French had little idea what our security structures needed, and an open pick-up truck and an ordinary SUV were brought to last year’s Moscow exhibition of Interpolitech-2012 police equipment. In response to the question: “Why are they unarmored?” - representatives of the company threw up their hands: “So this is not an army, but a police exhibition!”


Renault MIDS - armored "van" for the delivery of police to places of unrest


But now three French armored cars stood at the Interpolitech-2013 exposition. Large - Renault MIDS (Midlum Security) for transportation of police attire, similar to our riot police Uralov and KAMAZ. Unlike them, MIDS is armored: around the perimeter - protection of the B6 level (from the bullets of NATO rifles and machine guns), front - blade for pushing away the crowd or raking debris, armor-cassette with slots is lowered onto the windshield by means of hydraulic cylinders. The police sit back to back in a spacious van, combined with the body. Competently!

But why such an armored van of our police? At our football matches and rallies, the crowd does not shoot, but throws sticks and bottles. In the Caucasus, on the contrary, they fire Kalashnikov bullets with a heat-strengthened core, which are not designed for MIDS, and the clearance is parquet.


In the MIDS armored van (above), the police are sitting back-to-back



The interior of the Pahnard PVP armored car (below) is poor, and the visibility is terrible


The second car is a compact and angular Panhard PVP. It is shorter than our Tiger by about a meter, but it’s as much as two tons, under the hood, the 160-strong Iveco turbo diesel. The French clearly overestimate the capabilities of the machine: we are still ready to believe that it is able to protect Kalash (the second level of STANAG) from armor-piercing incendiary bullets, but the fact that this armored vehicle can withstand an explosion with six kilograms of explosives is unreal! Such a charge will at least throw away and turn over the car ... The design is clumsy, and the cabin is cramped and "naked", without any upholstery at all (what is it like in winter?). And the visibility through the mirrors is terrible (I checked it, sitting down on the driver's seat): it looks like Panhard simply will not pass certification with us, and our Tiger compared to it is the top of spaciousness and comfort!


The bronze engineer Asteys from Naberezhnye Chelny is going to start production of triple amphibians Pahnard VBL



Prototype model of BMP Atom of a joint project of Renault Trucks Defense Uralvagonzavod


And what did the Panhard VBL little armored vehicles do on the stand of the Interior Ministry troops? A year ago we told about this triple amphibian, and weakly armored: with the first class of protection according to the European standard STANAG, its armor can be shot through from Kalash.

However, now VBL decided to take up production (namely production, not assembly), Asteys, the “court” armor of KAMAZ from Naberezhnye Chelny. There they want to localize the design as much as 70%! The engine is an ancient Steyr M1, which was once equipped with Gazelles (now the Chinese have bought Steyr company), the gearbox is an automatic Mercedes. At the same time, representatives of Asteys say that the Russian version will cost “no more than” 10 — 12 million rubles. That is, the three-seat “armored fag” will cost the same money as the hefty 15-local Ural-BB!


Angle armored Panhard PVP - something like "Tiger in French"


However, all this is the tip of the iceberg, as Renault Trucks Defense began implementation together with Uralvagonzavod (which makes Tanks) a much more serious army project. We are talking about the Atom BMP: on the chassis of the French progenitor VBCI, the Urals installed a Russian combat module, in other words, a turret with a 57-mm cannon. And the protection is powerful, with armored ceramics. But one of the drawbacks is visible to the naked eye: in a battle with such dimensions, the Atom is an excellent target for a grenade launcher. Do you know how much VBCI costs in France? Almost 3,5 million euros!

Another dongfeng

What we didn’t expect was that the Chinese would bring their own armored cars on Interpolitech-2013! True, both cars were locked, and all day, while I was walking around the exhibition, there was not a single representative on the stand. Only multi-colored plastic plates on an empty table. Maybe this is Feng Shui to attract customers?

Judging by the accompanying plates (well, although they were), the armored cars are called Dongfeng Mengshi, and this is something like “Chinese Hummers”. The length is about six meters, the height is only about two meters, the maximum speed is 120 — 130 km / h. The claimed curb weight is embarrassing: in a two-axle machine - “less than 6,1 t”, in a three-axle vehicle - and at all 5,5 t. Our Tiger, protected from “Kalash”, is heavier! And from what weapons protected by dongfeng?


This Dongfeng Mengshi armored vehicle has three axles. But the last axis is unknowing.



The length of the Chinese "armored” Dongfeng Mengshi - 5,8 m, wheelbase - exactly four meters, height - less than two meters


We guess about the reasons for the appearance of these cars in Moscow: recently, the Ministry of Defense of Belarus bought the 22 SUV Dongfeng Mengshi (but unarmored) and even participate in parades. But at the Russian parades "Chinese" will not. Never!

Typhoon and Typhoonish

If we are talking about the army, let's move on to the project of the Russian Ministry of Defense Typhoon: now, two years after the demonstration of experienced Urals and KAMAZ Typhoon, the military ordered each of the 30 vehicle plants to be used - apparently that was not insulting to anyone. The Urals makes them together with the Steel Research Institute, KAMAZ - with Astais.


New Typhoon KAMAZ-63969. On the roof - a machine gun with a remote control. But why does the car need such a glass armored cap?



In the serial KAMAZ-63968 Typhoon - a shortened body and armored cars in it


At the exhibition Interpolitech from those who want to sit in the booth of KAMAZ Typhoon (still the first, experienced) did not end up! It's funny, of course, to see the contrast between “high technologies” like LCD screens and ancient KAMAZ devices in front of the driver ... The thickness of the armor plate on the end of the door is already 2,4 cm, armored glass is almost 13 cm, on the threshold, on the plate with VIN, the curb weight (23000 kg) and full (35000 kg). Wow!


An experienced Lockheed Martin AVA-1 English armored car in 2008 was created along with the Israeli Plasan Sasa. Do you recognize the glass "cap"?


But a shortened and lighter version will go into the series (apparently designed for fewer fighters): its curb weight is equal to 18550 kg, full - 22550 kg. And since the power of the KAMAZ engine remains the same, 450 hp, the dynamics should improve significantly. True, experts are confused by such a triaxial arrangement: in overcoming an obstacle, the entire load will fall on the middle bridge.

In the meantime, two more compact machines from the same family were created in Chelny. One, similar to the armored personnel carrier (especially as a remotely controlled machine gun stands on the Electromachine turret), is called KAMAZ-63969: it is designed for an 12 man and, like the "big brother", is protected from shelling from a large-caliber machine gun and undermining eight kilograms of TNT.

According to unofficial sources, this is a joint development with the Israeli “armor” Plasan Sasa: ​​ceramic armor, and the cost of the armor set, which the Israelis are ready to supply to KAMAZ, is about half a million euros.


Oh, the Typhoon cabin door is heavy!



Bronelista Thickness on Typhoon Door - mm 24


An unusual glass “cap” has already been demonstrated on the Lockheed Martin’s experienced English armored vehicle, but why should it be used in a combat vehicle that will be beaten out of all types of weapons? A few hits in this "lantern" - and if not a break through, then the lack of review provided! And if a bullet or a fragment gets into a steel armor, it causes a dent, then a ceramic - destruction of the ceramic element with its subsequent replacement. After each battle the car will have to be sent to expensive repairs?

And, finally, the newest car nicknamed Typhoon - the KAMAZ-53949 with the wheel formula 4х4: this is something like a very large commander jeep. According to our information, the Typhoonian is equipped with a Cummins engine, the total mass is 14 tons. But the car is very similar to the Italian Iveco LMV, which was increased in size, which was assembled at KAMAZ: the designers clearly did not have enough imagination ...


The interior of the cabin of the "big" Typhoon (prototype) with LCD monitors. To the right of the driver's seat, you can see the Allison automatic transmission selector.


***


A few years ago, when the United States fought in Iraq and Afghanistan, NATO countries were actively creating MRAP “armored cars” - and released them so much that they recently had to order covers for 8,3 million dollars to hide the preserved 4500 vehicles.

And now the development center of the newest armored models can rightfully be called Russia! And this is right: our Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs should be perfectly equipped with domestic equipment. We, in turn, will follow the news - and developments.


The smallest of the new Typhoon range, KAMAZ-53949, is called Typhoonian


Federal M


Ural-BB


Author:
Originator:
http://trucks.autoreview.ru/
Photos used:
photo of the author and manufacturing companies
60 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 23 January 2014 08: 57
    +14
    But I like this one. good KAMAZ-63969
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 23 January 2014 10: 11
      +4
      Yeah, inspires good
      And it is not at all clear why the glass "armored hood" is so smitten. The same KAMAZ-63968 (Typhoon) has no less glazing area, and visibility is still very questionable ...
      1. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 23 January 2014 10: 19
        +4
        hi Glass holds 14.5mm. This is not an armored personnel carrier-armored car ... Where else? ..
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 23 January 2014 10: 22
          +2
          Well, I'm about the same!
          Especially in projections, the glazing area will be clearly smaller than that of any of the alternative options, and visibility is possible and more (I didn’t sit behind the wheel - I will not say)
          1. Prapor-527
            Prapor-527 23 January 2014 10: 24
            +2
            I think we will take it! good
      2. rolik2
        rolik2 23 January 2014 13: 14
        +2
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Yeah, inspires

        That's exactly what inspires, and army equipment should inspire confidence in the soldier.
        Well, it’s wild when a truck for transporting personnel (albeit coolly armored) costs like two armored personnel carriers.
        This fact only eliminates all its advantages; the troops need thousands of armored trucks that are inexpensive, easy to maintain and repair. Ural options against the backdrop of KAMAZ look more profitable although there is still work and work.
        1. Refund_SSSR
          Refund_SSSR 24 January 2014 00: 36
          0
          Quote: rolik2
          costs like two armored personnel carriers.

          In armored shoes and riding shoes? No thanks ... And it’s not at all a fact that the new APCs will be cheaper.
          And how many armored personnel carriers of our production hold something the largest 14.5mm? So in essence this typhoon is the same BTR, only a little higher.
          Quote: rolik2
          inexpensive, easy to maintain and repair. Ural options against the background of KAMAZ look more profitable

          Is that how you determined from the photo ???
      3. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 23 January 2014 15: 41
        -4
        Quote: We refund_SSSR
        Yeah, inspires good
        And it is not at all clear why the glass "armored hood" is so smitten. The same KAMAZ-63968 (Typhoon) has no less glazing area, and visibility is still very questionable ...


        The first sign of a good thing in modern times is just idiotic remarks about individual parts of the structure.

        Author, why do you need such a tight attic around your neck? I would go without a head vseravno not use it.
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 23 January 2014 16: 47
          +1
          Guys, what 2 armored personnel carriers? - As 2 tanks, at least, considering the price of the new T-90 in 2 lyama greens.
          It’s easier then to remake all the available tanks in the T-BTR - and not the Pariso. TANK IS TANK.
    2. ACKiPaPa,
      ACKiPaPa, 23 January 2014 21: 52
      +1
      Yes, a solid armored car. However, if you take a closer look at the cockpit, you will see its suspicious resemblance to, say, the Thyssen-Henschel "Condor", or (just a copy) of the Belgian-German SIBMAS. By the way, the 78th and 76th years of production of the machine. In light of the cooperation of French manufacturers with KAMAZ mentioned by the author, Berlier VXB 71 onwards is also drawn. (by the way, adopted by the French gendarmerie - according to our explosives), and not only by the cabin but also by the rest of the body. Finally, it is curious to compare the lower part and the suspension of the KAMAZ with Renault VAB (3-axle version). Incidentally, the workhorse of the French army since the 76th year. You can, of course, recall the South African "Ratel", and others, but I think everything is clear. However, I do not presume that the external similarity in this case is identical to the technical similarity, I think ours sculpted their own differently - woe to us, borrowing those. decisions of the West, even so ancient.
    3. Yankuz
      Yankuz 23 January 2014 22: 48
      0
      Handsome man! Well done! You can see the technical aesthetics!
  2. T-100
    T-100 23 January 2014 09: 45
    0
    One question: what for the gas cap on the bolts, I certainly understand it reliably, but the bolt is an unpredictable thing ??? Wouldn't it be better to make a button for opening ??? (12 picture above)
    1. ICT
      ICT 23 January 2014 09: 55
      +1
      Quote: T-100
      It would not be better to make a button for opening

      Well, this is by and large not a big deal (they will be used regularly and they will not rust), I’d like to pay more attention to the staircases that look like they’re flimsy
  3. Scandinavian
    Scandinavian 23 January 2014 09: 49
    +7
    Such equipment in the battles in Afghanistan and Chechnya in a timely manner, no matter how many guys are with us now.
    1. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 23 January 2014 10: 14
      +9
      Yes, it used to be like this ...
    2. pawel57
      pawel57 23 January 2014 16: 46
      -3
      Rave. And where would this ural be used? Escort of the columns would not have taken it. no weapons, and Kamaz with bombs will not catch up.
      1. kot11180
        kot11180 23 January 2014 17: 33
        +3
        If this is nonsense, then you haven’t fought, it’s a reality, no matter how it was traveled and those
        1. pawel57
          pawel57 24 January 2014 00: 26
          +2
          2 orders and a medal for Afghanistan
          1. kot11180
            kot11180 24 January 2014 10: 36
            +1
            Respect for the awards, but I have been serving in the Caucasus for 11 years and I know what I'm talking about
  4. user
    user 23 January 2014 09: 59
    +3
    On such machines, of course, it is better than on serial ones, but I have not seen one sample worthy of attention. All of which are unfinished or better not thought out, i.e. not brought to the end, but even to the middle.
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 23 January 2014 10: 14
      +1
      those. not an armored troop carrier at all? or even better BMP-T? laughing What did you expect to see then? This is an armored truck!
    2. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 23 January 2014 10: 32
      0
      Do not confuse the truck with an armored personnel carrier ... hi
    3. ICT
      ICT 23 January 2014 11: 17
      +1
      Quote: user
      some are not completed or better not thought out,


      but they have another advantage OUR and glazing is already a plus, the height is no longer a big minus, and with RPG SPUMPING ON IT, NO WHO WISHES
      lol
      1. ACKiPaPa,
        ACKiPaPa, 23 January 2014 22: 01
        0
        This is exactly how (With RPG) they performed with the "Peacekeepers" in Kosovo, and in Afghanistan, and other "Humanitarian missions" that our overseas and European "Friends" were very depressing and depressing laughing .
        1. ACKiPaPa,
          ACKiPaPa, 23 January 2014 22: 10
          0
          About the unfinished business. These are the same new, in fact experimental machines, of course they are "raw". And the armor ... so they are not designed for battle, this is a taxi to the base, the deployment line, designed to protect the crew from an accidental bullet, or a small self-made mine. Alas, terrorists do not spare RPGs or explosives for landmines. recourse .
  5. Syrdon
    Syrdon 23 January 2014 10: 11
    0
    KAMAZ-63969 - the armored car from the Alien movie reminded me, only he has a machine gun creeping in like in the movie and it's taller)))

    1. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 23 January 2014 10: 52
      +4
      Are you talking about this? ..
    2. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 23 January 2014 11: 00
      +1
      Quote: Syrdon
      KAMAZ-63969 - the armored car from the Aliens movie recalled

      I didn’t remind you at all ... And a photo for comparison ...

      Planetary armored personnel carrier М577ARS (shot from the movie "Aliens") ...
    3. bask
      bask 23 January 2014 18: 36
      +1
      Quote: Syrdon
      AMAZ-63969 - the armored car from the Alien movie reminded me, only he has a machine gun creeping in like in the movie and it's taller)))

      It resembles the development of South Africa in the 70s, 80s.
      PUMA Y. Rhodesia

      NIALA South Africa.

      And the armored personnel carrier from the film, District 9.
  6. pawel57
    pawel57 23 January 2014 11: 11
    +3
    The author inadvertently told the truth, the police should not fulfill the role of the army. Parts of the Ministry of Internal Affairs intended to suppress rebellions should have army armored vehicles up to tanks. My opinion, again the Caucasus and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and monsters are created such as these machines. In small quantities for specialists they must be. The Interior Ministry will not be able to fight all one in the Caucasus with these machines. A large, slightly armed, heavy, excellent target for RPGs and DShK. We need to figure out who should do what, the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If it blazes, and it’s already on fire, it’s difficult to repeat on these machines, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs will force them to fight in the old memory, and they have almost no army. A machine may be good as a machine, but its use is probably limited.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 23 January 2014 12: 04
      +2
      Quote: pawel57
      . We need to figure out who should do what, the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs. If it’s burning, but it’s already on fire, it’s difficult to repeat on these machines,

      Totally agree.
      Similar machines (MRAP), like any equipment, are designed to perform their tasks.
      This is not a BMP, such a fool can not be hidden in the folds of the area. With such dimensions, there is nothing to think about waging a battle with an enemy who has powerful TCP. But for police operations, escorting convoys, what is needed. Well, of course, better than a simple hard worker Ural.
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 23 January 2014 13: 43
      +1
      Quote: pawel57
      The Interior Ministry will not be able to fight all one in the Caucasus with these machines.

      They don’t fight with such machines, they are for everyday life in the conditions of guerrilla warfare. Transportation of units, transportation of goods, etc.
      1. pawel57
        pawel57 23 January 2014 14: 33
        -1
        Nifiga yourself daily life. Armor like BMPs and more, loopholes, mine protection class, where are you going? Who are you? Which country are you in? Police on the half tanks. Do not make me laugh. The government is trying to prepare the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the war in the Caucasus, it already goes there once drive armored cars. Only half decisions. Let there be armored cars, but there must be political will and the attraction of those forces that are supposed to fight. Spirits will now bribe RPGs and monsters will burn candles. Each has its own tasks. Let there be monsters, but the situation is not extended. It was interesting before that the BB battalions were armed to fight bandits. technique. If they are now and what is in service. If they start shoving these Urals-complete nonsense.
        1. kot11180
          kot11180 23 January 2014 14: 44
          +1
          And what about politics, the police on the semi-tanks? Just now, explosives are being transferred to such equipment and the army is being removed. For us, it fits fine, because Now we mainly carry out tasks in settlements at addresses, and there it is Ural Urals, and the tactics have already been worked out
          1. pawel57
            pawel57 23 January 2014 16: 52
            0
            Wait a bit. The spirits will have the same fly RPG and everything will change at once. The limited use of this technique in special operations is necessary, no more.
            1. kot11180
              kot11180 23 January 2014 17: 41
              0
              Dear spirits, nothing will appear, they have everything for a long time, including RPGs with tandem shots, so that the tank will not stand, and that now it’s possible to drive without armor. And they protect against bullets reliably. So what exactly are these machines needed
              1. pawel57
                pawel57 24 January 2014 00: 58
                +2
                Respected! There is an excellent technique developed long ago and even adopted by the army, but not in demand. This is an APC 90 Rostock. Everything is there, guns, machine guns. Highly passable and maneuverable. You can do wonders on it in your sweeps. Why reinvent the wheel. Since there is war in the Caucasus, you must have military equipment. Maybe in small quantities, the Urals and pull. Why am I writing with criticism? It’s slipping that the Ministry of Internal Affairs is armed with armored cars without a trace, this is a warp. If he is going to fight with the forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Caucasus, he will not pull. Army equipment is excellent for the BTR90. Yes, let it be the Urals, but for limited purposes. We see everything that the situation is heating up soon RPGs will fly, than you will fight back. In general, the army should fight, this is not your business. I am not an enemy of the fatherland and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, maybe you are right.
                1. kot11180
                  kot11180 24 January 2014 07: 32
                  +1
                  ON "our clean-ups" the 80 does not differ from the 90th (by the way, it does not hold an RPG), without knowing the question, you should not draw conclusions
                2. Rus86
                  Rus86 24 January 2014 07: 41
                  0
                  such a moment as the price. and as I know, the "sprout" was not adopted for service.
        2. Nayhas
          Nayhas 23 January 2014 21: 01
          0
          Quote: pawel57
          Nifiga yourself daily life. Armor like BMPs and more, loopholes, mine protection class, where are you going? Who are you? Which country are you in? Police on the half tanks. Do not make me laugh.

          It’s not funny to go for a sweep in the UAZ in the back seat (in the dog lover), realizing that in which case there will be no chance to get out, just none ...
          1. pawel57
            pawel57 24 January 2014 00: 35
            0
            You know better how to clean.
          2. pawel57
            pawel57 24 January 2014 01: 14
            -1
            What were your superiors thinking when sending to the Caucasus without arming them with armored vehicles? There is a BTR80, an excellent BTR90, why weren’t you armed with these machines? This is a disregard for people.
      2. rolik2
        rolik2 23 January 2014 18: 14
        +1
        Quote: Nayhas
        for everyday life

        Quote: Nayhas
        Transportation of units, transportation of goods, etc.

        At that price, apiece? fool That carcass that you want to transport in them in gold jars should be.
        They must be cheap both in cost and in operation; under other circumstances, they will not get into the army, so they will roll from the exhibition to the exhibition.
        1. kot11180
          kot11180 23 January 2014 18: 38
          0
          Soldiers are not a carcass
        2. Nayhas
          Nayhas 23 January 2014 20: 58
          +1
          Quote: rolik2
          They must be cheap both in cost and in operation.

          Cheap ones are Gaz-66 and Zil-131 tilt, on which to bring food and products to the checkpoint and set them up. But life is not so cheap to be neglected. We have in 2002. six guys go home in coffins, because the "loaf" has no armor and it is no joke to get out of it under fire, who managed to mostly survive ... If they went at least in the Chinese Dongfeng Mengshi, then everyone would be alive ...
          1. ACKiPaPa,
            ACKiPaPa, 23 January 2014 22: 27
            0
            I absolutely agree with rolik2, we went to MTLBv and it was dumb, but in the Urals the guys told us that we were sitting in Christ's bosom. Such "Federals", even simple ones, would be useful to us. Yes, and BMOs with columns when they went for supplies, they did not have to hang armor on the window, but sit in such cars. That is why in the West they do not spare money for their development and purchase - they understand that life is more expensive.
            1. ACKiPaPa,
              ACKiPaPa, 26 January 2014 14: 19
              0
              OH repeat
              АЦКиПаПа, January 23, 2014 22:27

              I absolutely agree with rolik2

              Sorry Nayhas - I agree with you, with you.
          2. pawel57
            pawel57 24 January 2014 01: 16
            -1
            Why your leadership sending to a hot spot did not arm you with an armored personnel carrier? Why sent to GAZ and ZIL?
            1. ACKiPaPa,
              ACKiPaPa, 25 January 2014 22: 21
              0
              For pawel57 But because they send on what is listed in the materiel units. Because it is necessary to give new equipment before sending it, to retrain personnel on it, to provide fuel and lubricants, spare parts, etc. - this is at least half a year. Because in the end, until recently, NOTHING to put on WHAT, they did not buy us new equipment.
              I myself remember how our new "Ural" s were greeted with tears before shipment - no one expected such a gift from fate, in part, before that, half of the "Ural" s were still with a gasoline engine, and the kitchen is generally on ZIL. 131x and drove off the entire campaign.
  7. ICT
    ICT 23 January 2014 11: 13
    +1
    Quote: Chicot 1
    Planetary armored personnel carrier М577ARS (shot from the movie "Aliens").


    his dignity is not achievable in our realities, he is inside more than outside
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 23 January 2014 12: 29
      +1
      Quote: TIT
      his dignity is not achievable in our realities, he is inside more than outside

      All questions of this kind (kind, type) only to the person shown in the photo ... wink (but you still have "+")

      -Everything is relative, my friend TIT! ...
      (if someone does not understand or is not in the subject, then this is James Cameron - director of "Alien-2" / "Aliens")
    2. RBLip
      RBLip 24 January 2014 11: 21
      0
      When watching a movie, I never looked closely, an armored car and an armored car. looked at the pictures - first thought - where does the front door lead to? wink
  8. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 23 January 2014 11: 32
    +1
    Quote: pawel57
    and the Ministry of Internal Affairs will be forced to fight by old memory, and the army is almost there,
    The Ministry of Internal Affairs reduced by 20% left for Sochi, Dagestan, Chechnya ... There is nobody to take to the streets ... what
  9. kot11180
    kot11180 23 January 2014 11: 50
    +8
    Urals are not brought to mind, although the ideas are good. In my experience (I serve in the BB), the federal liked it better, the entrance is more convenient, but it's a bit overwhelming (you can’t climb from the left through the tank in my opinion), and sometimes you have to jump (naturally in armor). The doors in the Ural-VV are narrow, it’s hard to climb in equipment, but I like the possibility of re-arranging the cabin - for transportation it is better to have a back to the windows and a free cabin, but for events it is better to face the windows (the ability to observe and immediately open fire). Why a huge windshield (preferably from 2 sections).
    Typhoons in my opinion (judging as VVshnik) are expensive toys, the Urals are cheaper and easier to maintain, which is of great importance to us, in VV the military personnel service (often spare parts are bought).
    In general, good cars, but as always flaws in the details, but these details then interfere with operation.
    My opinion.
    1. tchoni
      tchoni 23 January 2014 16: 53
      +4
      I completely agree with the comment. A mass machine should be simple, easy to transform and cheap. The only addition is better explosion protection.
      1. ACKiPaPa,
        ACKiPaPa, 23 January 2014 22: 36
        0
        tchoni Take a Kevlar sheet and wrap the truck in 4 layers. Cheap! But in fact, in addition to materials and development money, one must not forget about the new car of the Head of the Design Bureau, Dacha, a vacation trip to Kur-chavel, etc. - This is Russia.
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 24 January 2014 09: 12
          0
          Yes, they did almost that. Only instead of expensive Kevlar - stupid logs see photo above
          1. ACKiPaPa,
            ACKiPaPa, 25 January 2014 18: 29
            0
            ACCiPaPa
            Take the Kevlar cloth ...

            And we tchoni boxes of pomegranates, with sand, or even bags ... BUT! 21st Century - OBLIGATIONS soldier and nobody canceled the second half of the post request im "Shavel" we have boxes-logs for the price of kevlar ...
  10. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 23 January 2014 12: 37
    +5
    For skeptics, this is not a bad model ...
    1. dmitry21
      dmitry21 23 January 2014 21: 36
      0
      I agree ... but ...
      ... the expenses are not the same, the wrong ones: in this case, hang chopped leaves of iron (not armor, or even become of good quality), cat. even the rifle 7,62 bullet is not kept on GAZ or by US, are not comparable with the complex of required qualities to protect against modern threats and, accordingly, modern customer requirements.
      1. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 24 January 2014 17: 51
        0
        Yes, I understand. Just kidding ... laughing
  11. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 23 January 2014 13: 37
    +3
    The text of the article is crude and it can be seen from it that the author himself did not quite understand what he wrote. For example, how do you like this:

    By the way, armored personnel carriers can move along public roads only with escort, and therefore their participation in special operations, as well as routes, is known in advance - and the operation loses the effect of surprise. fool

    You might think that a column of hefty armored trucks going in a certain direction, local residents of the territory where the anti-terrorist operation is carried out will not cause any suspicion. laughing

    -Maga, and what did this beat daraga, huh?
    -Yes, it’s the hunters, damn it, we went hunting for a lamb, I’m going to shoot a few goats and rolls, I got it?
    -Aaa ... otherwise I thought you understand, cheat this Russian special forces again aul sang mala-mala protection to do, oasas.
    laughing laughing laughing

    I liked the photos. I put the article only for them.

    In terms of technology, I’ll add that Federal-M, that the Ural-VV require refinement on a number of parameters so that you can go to them for the war.
    In Federal-M I liked:
    An armored car with access to the engine and its systems + it looks like it can be folded down (removed) the plumage completely (without particularly time-consuming operations and without a lot of time).
    Interior decoration with anti-shatter protective material that completely covers the living space.
    Minimal use of combustible materials in door trim, dashboard and other elements of habitable space.
    Did not like:
    The absence of a folding ramp (door) for faster landing and leaving the machine, loading and unloading cargo (equipment, ammunition, the ability to quickly load on board the wounded.
    The lack of a spare wheel (it could be placed under the frame on the back of the winch).
    The location of the seats (it may be better to put folding benches along the sides instead of such seats (not continuous, but with separately rising sections as in transport aircraft), sheathed with non-combustible material, this will make it possible to transform the internal volume for various needs).
    And when firing from loopholes, fighters will be able to quickly lift up to board sections to shoot while standing or leaning one knee on the bench section and the other on the floor.
    The method of fixing the fuel tank armored caps was also not pleasing (it could be done using a square key using a square key).
    The absence of a winch also does not paint such an apparatus, so as not to be wiser with a drive through a cardan, it can be supplied with an electric drive (since now they are produced in bulk in all sorts of different ones).
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 23 January 2014 13: 39
      +1
      I have never seen Ural-VV inside before, and it’s easier to say about its most striking shortcomings:
      Because of the ICE armored module, there is practically no access to it, even the last "kettle" in cars will immediately pay attention to it, without talking about the pros.
      A lot of combustible material inside the habitable volume.
      Incomplete covering of the internal volume of the machine with anti-fragmentation lining.
      On the back of the car there are the same problems as the Federal-M + partition in the middle, neither to the village, nor to the city.
      By the location of the seats is the same (neither really sit down, nor place the load).
      I want to say about the engines of both Urals, the YaMZ-238 will be better than the KAMAZ’s longer resource.
      More KAMAZ cars are of interest, personally my 53949 about him have not yet seen the materials.
  12. Suhov
    Suhov 23 January 2014 15: 54
    +2
    Quote: user
    ... I have not seen one noteworthy sample. All of which are not completed yet or better not thought out ...

    The quality of armored vehicles can be quickly improved if the Minister of Finance and the Director of the Ural Automobile Plant are sent for an month or two on an exotic journey through the hot spots of the North Caucasus, ensuring their personal participation in counter-terrorist operations. sad
  13. Wurger
    Wurger 23 January 2014 17: 21
    +1
    Something bad feeling from the article. That's not the case. This is bullshit. the author knows better than engineers? Doubtful. And from his point of view, are there "normal" armored vehicles?
    1. Gronsky
      Gronsky 23 January 2014 19: 51
      +2
      This is Fyodor Lapshin's autorevushnik. I've been reading them since the very first issue of 1991, and I can say that the guys are gradually becoming stars, moreover, they began to allow themselves to express their, so to speak, political preferences. In general, they have become a little boiled, although against the background of the rest, the publication is quite professional, there are few blunders. Quite deservedly ousted the leading figure "Behind the wheel". But it is better for them to deal with technology and only technology, and no politics, if they want to preserve the respect of old adherents.
  14. alone
    alone 23 January 2014 19: 02
    0
    very useful machines for special forces and internal troops. and in the ground forces can be used to transport personnel.
  15. tchoni
    tchoni 23 January 2014 20: 37
    +2
    In general, if we summarize the comments of the comments and the article as a whole, you come to the conclusion that we need a new armored personnel carrier (in the sense of a new generation armored personnel carrier) equipped for driving on public roads. Why - yes, because these designs given in the article can have only one advantage over the BTR - the price, and they are rapidly increasing (in the sense of losing the price advantage (see the cost of typhoons)), this is especially evident when you look at the prices of bourgeois devices. They will object to me that 70 and 80 have weak mine protection and all that .... Yes, the designers of the Soviet armored personnel carriers did not count on their use in the conditions of a mine war on the roads, but nevertheless he kept an anti-personnel mine, did not explode on an anti-tank mine, and about the option when under a pair of anti-personnel shells from the sushka they put - no one thought then.
    But, no one forbids, on the basis of the same "typhoon", to develop a machine comparable to the BTR 80 in cross-country ability, having a convenient troop compartment and exits for landing, modular booking and all other persimmons (such as a turret, etc.)
    I think that if you make a similar design based on standard automotive components and assemblies and not be too smart about the density of the layout, it will not turn out much more expensive than the same "typhoon".
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 24 January 2014 09: 27
      0
      Quote: tchoni
      on the basis of the same "typhoon" to develop a car

      And we need it?
      An armored car does not have any advantages when compared to armored personnel carriers if they are compared as vehicles for delivering infantry to the battlefield, moreover, an armored car loses armored personnel carriers in overall dimensions (remember a good saying that the larger the cabinet, the louder it falls), patency (such vehicles like the Urals, in an article on serious off-road conditions they won’t pass), mobility (armored personnel carriers can swim, i.e., sappers do not need to wait, but just choose a suitable place for the crossing and cross on their own), as well as to protect the crew and the landing from WMD ( on all armored vehicles eats l FVU and apparatus and devices for radiochemical (bacteriological) reconnaissance of the surrounding area).
      In addition, the armored personnel carrier is routinely provided for the installation of support and defense weapons (14,5mm KPVT, 7,62mm PKT or 2A42 (72) 30mm, PKT 7,62mm, in addition, it is possible to install other options) for a good armored personnel carrier, only a new one needs to be developed an armored hull with mine protection (although it already exists, like a new vehicle of this class, it is the BTR-90 "Rostok") and with a more thought-out entry-exit layout for faster landing and disembarkation or loading and unloading. in this class, and all these armored cars are all from the evil one, for transport units, ordinary trucks with an armored cab are enough (and then if they work to deliver goods directly to the units on the front line or in the DB zone).
      And for the work of VV-shnikov and special forces it is better to make armored cars so that they do not differ from civilian vehicles (so as not to attract too much attention).
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 24 January 2014 10: 31
        0
        PS The investment in the development of a new wheeled armored personnel carrier as a vehicle for delivering infantry to the database zone will fully justify itself for the reasons described above.
        The development of expensive armored vehicles no.
        Many experts look at the experience of Americans in this area, but personally my opinion is that the Americans simply did not have normal armored personnel carriers at the right time, their program on the Stryker armored personnel carrier failed (this became obvious after many years in Afghanistan since 2001, and in Iraq since 2003, this vehicle (and other wheeled vehicles in service with the United States too, due to its creation long before these wars), with all its merits, turned out to be incapable (as well as our armored personnel carriers) to resist the partisan actions of the enemy and therefore their armies and the USMC , I had to urgently get out by ordering MRAP armored vehicles from almost all firms in the world that produce such vehicles and urgently establish their production in the USA.
        The appearance of MRAP armored vehicles was a compulsory (fire) measure, and not a pre-thought out strategy for the development and implementation of promising wheeled armored vehicles. Why do we step on an American rake when it is absolutely unnecessary.
        There is only one need to strengthen the protection of wheeled armored vehicles in accordance with modern realities and as far as possible from promising threats.
        If we talk about the situation in the North Kvakaz, it did not arise there today or yesterday, but taking into account the fact that Afghanistan was there, it becomes clear why we still don’t have equipment protected from explosions on mines and IEDs, the whole secret is simple, such a technique is simple they didn’t order not MO, not BB and none at all (unit deliveries do not count).
        Although we have been developing designs on this topic since the Soviet era (the times of Afghanistan) and continue to go to the tables of the GABTU and so on, it would seem to be interesting offices with regularity enviable even for the United States. . And while we are sitting here and trying about what technique would be better for our aircraft, these uncles with a grin on their thick faces simply laugh at us quietly (looking at them (if they are interested in anything other than their pocket)) .
      2. kot11180
        kot11180 24 January 2014 10: 48
        0
        As for the off-road in vain, the armored vehicles are very passable cars, we have been driving them since 2003, we have experience. As for swimming, in the Caucasus there is simply nowhere to swim, it is necessary for a large-scale war, but we say, I’ll remind you, about cars for explosives and today
        1. wanderer_032
          wanderer_032 24 January 2014 23: 50
          +1
          But the new armored personnel carrier is needed not only for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, it is also needed for the SV MO and for the Navy marines.
          For explosives, it is possible to assemble on the same platform and on the same units (only different options should be provided for 8x8, 6x6 or 4x4), but taking into account the fact that there really are no such tasks as SV and marine corps, make a simplified version (without water cannons, etc. equipment unnecessary for the MVD).
          And believe me, such an APC is much better suited for military (CTO) operations than an armored car based on the Urals.
          And thus we unify the fleet of wheeled combat vehicles to nodes and assemblies to a large extent. Only armored corps will be different.
      3. ACKiPaPa,
        ACKiPaPa, 25 January 2014 18: 15
        +2
        Quote wanderer_032
        And we need it?
        The armored car has no advantages compared to the APCs if we compare them as vehicles for delivering infantry to the battlefield, moreover, the armored car loses the APCs in overall dimensions

        You must dear - you must! You are confusing, the APC and the BA have completely different tasks. The first is not only a "taxi to the battlefield", but also a means of fire support IN BATTLE (see the definition in any encyclopedia), and some kind of (creepy, to be honest) protection for the fighters, of course in a serious "batch" to him a kirdyk, but that's all -also, this is a combat vehicle. But "armored cars" are completely different music. First of all, this is TRANSPORT, the maximum BEFORE the deployment line (not an attack, mind you, before that it may still have to be cut for kilometers). The commander who sent such a vehicle into battle (unless, of course, emergency circumstances) his head must be torn off. This is transport. Transport in a potential threat, say, take the same Ulster; when from any angle a bullet can fly out or a bubble with a Molotov, that you will order to ride in a convertible, .. Their second task is to transport goods (boxes, wounded, personnel, underline the necessary) and in maximum quantities, by the way, who drove to Armored personnel carriers ammunition knows HOW it is convenient to push boxes there, unload, place inside belay. Accordingly, the truck is preferable, but, and the size will be awesome, however, come on, try to shove the armored personnel carrier at least in the Urals laughing Think about it: drive 2-3 armored personnel carriers to a block or 1 truck with escort, where the soldiers will not sit on a bomb (armored personnel carriers will be loaded) - what is the best way to deliver supplies? Finally, the evacuation of the wounded from the front line: I hope you have not experienced a stretcher in the BMR under fire, (a honey option, there is such a one) shove, I generally keep quiet about an ordinary armored personnel carrier. And the cross-country ability and "float" are generally useless, where they work already at least a pontoon will lead, and the track will be rolled. Something like this, dear hi.
      4. tchoni
        tchoni 28 January 2014 13: 31
        0
        "The armored car, in comparison with the armored personnel carrier, has no advantages if we compare them as vehicles for delivering infantry to the battlefield"
        Well, tell me. 1) In an armored personnel carrier - climb up - climb out - twisted into three dooms - but here, though not always in full growth, but still.
        2) Put 20 gavriks in armored personnel carriers - it will not work out by definition. - in an armored car - please, there will also be a place for cargo.
        3) Due to the height - explosion protection is improved + the presence of suspension parts between the body and the VU contributes to this.
        4) Visibility from an armored car is better due to the presence of windows.
        And if you look at the bottom line - then armored vehicles are the armored personnel carriers - namely the BRONETRANSPORTERS (the name itself says that their main task is to transport people and goods under conditions of possible fire).
        And that is why (+ paragraph 3) the height for an armored personnel carrier is not a drawback, but rather a plus, because using it as a support vehicle on the battlefield is stupid.
        Regarding "and the armored personnel carrier floats," you will ask how often this option is needed, and how many armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles in motorized rifle troops are able to implement it without major repairs (according to experience, the rubber seal disappears after a year - three intensive use, and since the breakdown is considered insignificant it is not eliminated even upon the arrival of high commissions).
        Regarding weapons, armored vehicles are much better suited for firing from personal weapons, and it’s not difficult to stick a tower on it

        I do not argue - we need a new armored personnel carrier, but it’s just that an armored personnel carrier, and not a device for all occasions that really can not do anything.
  16. Moore
    Moore 24 January 2014 09: 04
    +1
    Some of the author’s claims are controversial, some can be agreed.
    1.Change the bulletproof glass package only at the factory? Yeah, the crane beam was canceled on the MTO. Change only the way - it would be for that.
    2. The pneumatic cylinder for lowering the stairs is really not the best solution. It is openly located, they will grab it cleanly on the machine and cling with all the equipment too. Perhaps it would be worth sacrificing the chippers of the chassis and install fixed stairs.
    3.Pro "bullet trap" in the form of a door. Who prevents from landing from the doors in the stern during fire from the front?
    4. It would be nice to provide a device for hanging a working body such as a blade - to throw barriers and other barricades.
  17. Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 24 January 2014 11: 15
    0
    Tall, heavy, expensive! Monsters in the European manner.
    But this KAMAZ brainchild will be cooler and more interesting
    1. kot11180
      kot11180 24 January 2014 11: 27
      0
      And that this brainchild is cheaper and easier - hardly. And whether it will be steeper only operation can show.
    2. RBLip
      RBLip 24 January 2014 12: 59
      0
      152nd recalls.
    3. Gronsky
      Gronsky 24 January 2014 20: 44
      0
      Quote: Dimon-chik-79
      But this KAMAZ brainchild will be cooler and more interesting

      This brainchild is a shame of KAMAZ. An example of the dense-mossy representations of its designers and tricks with the sneakiness of the KAMAZ huckster managers. negative
      If it is adopted, then there is no faith in the generals.
      1. ACKiPaPa,
        ACKiPaPa, 25 January 2014 21: 35
        0
        Quote: Gronsky
        This brainchild is a shame of KAMAZ. An example of dense-mossy representations of its designers

        Actually, it's a classic. The sample is the simplest - and therefore the cheapest - rearrangement of a civilian truck in an armored personnel carrier. At the same time, the layout, frame, and most of the units are stored as on a civilian model, which is important for yesterday's DOSAAF officers (they take courses at ZILs, Urals, and KAMAZs, I never met BTR-80 in the classroom) and they were repaired. Of course, for a serious fight, protection is not so hot, but like a policeman it is quite on a level from small arms (considering the level of modern materials) and not very powerful homemade goods (just to fit into a bag (NOT A BAU laughing )) will protect. What else does!? Is the design progressive? Look, there’s a suitable brainchild of Cameron above, introduce it to the masses, hi
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 29 January 2014 20: 09
          0
          You are right. Gronsky carries nonsense.
          On this sample (renicarnation 152, put a module with 14,5 and the car will be good.
          After all, does any of these General Staff OMU officers think of the state of MSR, to turn on the hostess’s car, give them a lift, advertise, etc. Other times, you can’t get into armored vehicles, but chasing a combat vehicle for footcloths is not an option.
  18. RBLip
    RBLip 24 January 2014 11: 32
    +1
    Someone tell me what this device has?
    1. kot11180
      kot11180 24 January 2014 12: 46
      +1
      I saw the presentation of the TsSN FSB, they rode it, and in my opinion it was created for them
  19. kot11180
    kot11180 24 January 2014 12: 49
    +1
    here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3fBi9JRzJk
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 24 January 2014 13: 06
      0
      thank you. really not enough (flashed a couple of times). and so the worst weapon was used in this agitation for 1.57 min. of viewing wink
  20. kot11180
    kot11180 24 January 2014 13: 23
    0
    And I liked the robot with "Pecheneg"
  21. xomaNN
    xomaNN 24 January 2014 17: 39
    0
    Oh, such cars would be Ukrainian now. Riot police in Kiev. With the equipment, the police are poor.
  22. kplayer
    kplayer 25 January 2014 20: 27
    +1
    In the ARMY, for obvious reasons, armored vehicles with a low silhouette and high maneuverability have always been appreciated (the Kamaz / Ural, weighed down with armor plates, is unlikely to retain high maneuverability), so we have such an interest in POLICE armored vehicles. MRAP is an invention of the American military-industrial complex borrowed from South Africa for conflicts of "low" intensity (dirt roads and dry soils are preferred for use), are currently not in demand in the US Army and Marine Corps. are not standard machines and up to 50% of them will be written off, and the rest will be stored.
    We better send a fin. and production resources for more priority purposes (light multi-purpose general-purpose armored vehicles 4x4, or BTR / BMP 8x8).
  23. max90.90
    max90.90 26 January 2014 16: 59
    0
    KAMAZ 63968
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 29 January 2014 20: 10
      0
      Yesterday I saw such a four-axle tow truck -VV convoy of fuel trucks was coming, behind it this crocodile in that circuit.
  24. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 27 January 2014 08: 11
    0
    http://pikabu.ru/story/ustroystvo_noveyshego_kamaza_quottayfunquot_1910309

    that feeling when on a picaba earlier than on a top var, pictures of KAMAZ inside!