Terrible armor of the Middle Kingdom. China's tank power puts the country in the first row of world military powers

The military-industrial courier weekly completes a series of publications devoted to the armored forces of the People's Republic of China. No. 34 for 2013 gives a detailed story about the first-borns of Chinese tank building from the 20s to the Type 69 and 79 models created in the 70s and 80s. No. 40 dealt with more modern tanks the turn of the XX and XXI centuries under the indexes Type 88 and 96. Today, "MIC" offers readers an overview of the latest generations of Chinese armored vehicles.

The third generation main battle tank (MBT) Type 98 was developed by the North China Engineering Research Institute No. 201 (NEVORI) in Beijing in collaboration with the First Engineering Company (FIRMACO), the former tank building plant No. 617 in Baotou. Designing the tank began in the 70-ies. Some constructive solutions of the new machine were tested on prototypes of the WZ1224 and WZ1226 in 80-s, as well as on the export tank Type 90-II / MBT-2000. In the middle of 80's, the tank’s appearance finally formed - it was based on the design of the Soviet T-72M tank (several machines were purchased by China in the Middle East) with a repetition of its layout and individual design solutions. The first four prototypes were made in 1992 year. Mass production began in 1998.

Type 98

The layout of the tank is classic, with a stern arrangement MTO. Department of management with the landing of the driver in the center. In the fighting compartment gunner located to the left of the gun, and the commander to the right.

The body is welded, made of homogeneous armor with a combined armor in the frontal part. The combined armored obstacle is also represented by the frontal parts of the welded turret, which is made of armor plates of various thickness, located at rational inclination angles, and equipped with a developed feeding niche.

The main armament of the tank - 125-mm smoothbore gun ZPT-98. It is an unlicensed copy of the Soviet 2A46 gun, redesigned for Chinese technology. The barrel of the gun has a heat-insulating casing. The electromechanical automatic loader (AZ) on the 22 shot was also copied from the Soviet model and was previously used on the Type 85-IIM, Type 96 and Type 90-II. When using AZ, the rate of fire reaches eight rounds per minute. The total ammunition consists of 41 shots with separate-sleeve loading with armor-piercing-sifting shells with a separating pan, cumulative and high-explosive fragmentation shells, and a Russian-made tank guided missile (TOUR) with laser-guided 9X119. In addition, in China, in cooperation with Israel, an armor-piercing sabot projectile with a core of depleted uranium was created.

MBT is equipped with a modern French fire control system (LMS), similar to that installed on the Leclerc tank. The main elements of the OMS are a digital ballistic computer, a control panel, a gunner’s periscope sight with a thermal imaging camera, a built-in laser range finder and a line of sight independently stabilized in two planes, a commander’s periscope combined sight-observation device with a panoramic head, a commander’s display, a two-plane weapon stabilizer (a copy Soviet 2E28 "Lilac") and a set of different sensors. The armament control is duplicated, carried out both from the gunner and from the commander.

As an auxiliary weapon, two machine guns were installed on the tank - a twin 7,62-mm Type 86 to the right of the cannon and an anti-aircraft 12,7-mm W-85 mounted in front of the commander's hatch and designated as QJC-88. Shooting from a coaxial machine gun is carried out with the help of electrostart for a distance of up to 1000 meters. ZPU provides shooting only in the front sector at a distance of up to 1600 meters at ground and up to 1500 meters at air targets. Its vertical pointing angles range from -40 to + 75. On the sides of the turret, there are two five-barreled blocks of Type 84 smoke grenade launchers.

A feature of the Type 98 tank is the presence of a JD-3 laser active protection system. It consists of an LRW laser irradiation warning system (a mushroom-shaped sensor behind the commander’s hatch) and an LSDW quantum generator itself (a box-shaped turret behind the gunner’s hatch). When a signal is received that a tank is irradiated by an enemy's laser beam, the warning system generates a signal to turn the turret towards the detected source, then a weak laser beam turns on, which determines the exact location of the target, after which the beam power instantly rises to a critical level and disables the optical means or organs view of the operator of the enemy.

The 1200 diesel horsepower turbocharged diesel engine is derived from German WD396. It is interlocked with the transmission into a single power unit, which can be replaced in the field in 30 – 40 minutes. The planetary mechanical transmission (7 + 1) is almost entirely borrowed from the Russian T-72M.

The chassis is also copied from the T-72M. On each side there are six support and four supporting dual slope rollers with rubber bands. Individual suspension, torsion bar. Hydraulic shock absorbers are installed on the first, second and sixth suspension units. Caterpillar with rubber-metal hinges (RMSH), rubberized treadmill and rubber asphalt shoes.

The engine, transmission and chassis allow the 48 vehicle weighing tons to reach maximum speed on the highway up to 45 kilometers per hour. Power reserve - 450 kilometers.

The October 1 parade of 1999 in Beijing was attended by 18 Type 98 tanks. Apparently, a limited number of combat vehicles of this type, no more than 60, which have become transitional to the next MBT, came into service with the PLA.

Type 99

This machine is essentially an improved modification of the Type 98. One of the first variants of the tank was demonstrated in 2000-m under the designation Type 98G. In the same year they made the first batch of 40 units. In the future, the production of tanks is carried out at a very slow pace, mainly due to the complexity and high cost.

Type 99 is a Type 98 tank with improved performance: increased mobility due to the installation of a more powerful 1500-powerful diesel engine with turbocharging, an improved fire control system, increased security by installing built-in dynamic protection on the frontal projections of the tower and the hull.

Reservations for frontal projections of the tower and the hull are enhanced by the built-in dynamic protection (DZ) units. In the first production models, the DZ was installed on top of the main armor parts. On subsequent machines, the blocks were built into the main booking. The configuration has changed, they have become more oblique from the sides. The modular booking design allows you to quickly replace damaged blocks with new ones.

The tank is equipped with an integrated laser complex active counter JD-3.

The advanced MSA includes a combined gunner’s and commander’s sights with independent stabilization, a laser range finder, a thermal imager, a digital ballistic computer, a two-plane weapon stabilizer, a set of sensors (atmospheric conditions, barrel bore wear, etc.), a commander’s multifunctional panel with a color indicator and an autotracking system goals The image from the thermal imager is displayed on the color displays of the commander and the gunner (multiplicity x11,4 and x5). In addition, the OBT is equipped with a navigation system with inertial and satellite (GPS) channels, the data from which are also displayed on the display of the commander and superimposed on the digital map of the area. The tank is equipped with a modern radio station and TPU.

The 1500 diesel engine with horsepower is based on the German MB871 Ka501. The tank accelerates from a standstill to 32 kilometers per hour in just 12 seconds. Mechanical planetary transmission provides seven speeds to move forward and one back. Suspension torsion with hydraulic shock absorbers.

In the base case, the weight of the machine was 54 tons, on subsequent modifications it increased almost to 60. Type 99 participated in a military parade in Beijing on October 1 2009 of the year on the occasion of the 50 anniversary of the PRC. 18 MBT (judging by DZ blocks - early release) from the 334-th regiment of the 112-th tank division of the 38-th army PLA group passed through Tiananmen Square.

Why does China need tanks?

In recent decades, the number of PLA tank fleets has consistently maintained at the level of 10 thousands of units. This is the largest value in the world. Why does China need so much armored vehicles?

In Russian society, including among a number of experts and political scientists, there is an opinion that relations between Russia and China are as good as ever, that Beijing is a strategic partner and ally, its main opponents are the United States, Japan and, of course, Taiwan. We can also recall Vietnam and India, with which the Celestial Empire has territorial disputes. The Chinese leadership is paying so much attention to the development of the Air Force and Navy, since a large land army is not needed for a war with the United States or the capture of Taiwan. All these arguments would be generally true, if not one circumstance - for now.

While a strategic partner, friend and ally. Where is the guarantee that the situation will not change in ten or even five years? There is no information that the Chinese Air Force and Navy are developing to the detriment of the ground forces and tank forces in particular. Facts rather indicate otherwise. However, many in Russia are trying hard not to notice this, as well as the vector of application of China’s main military efforts.

It is worth noting that the most modern tanks come exclusively in parts of the Beijing, Shenyang and Lanzhou military districts of the PLA, oriented respectively to Transbaikalia, the Far East and Kazakhstan. In addition, in the past five years, the PLA regularly conducts exercises with the development of deep ground offensive operations. Except in Russia and Kazakhstan, they have nowhere to lead. The growth rates of the Chinese economy, food consumption and natural resources are such that the country cannot survive without the seizure of territories and these resources. For Beijing, collapse is an alternative to expansion.

And what about Russia? Maybe we are stronger than ever, and all efforts to the south of the Amur are just petty fluttering? According to published data as of 1 January 2012, the Russian army was armed with 14 350 tanks. After the divisional organization was liquidated, combat vehicles were consolidated into five tank brigades for 91 – 94 vehicles in each. In addition, there are about 30 motorized rifle brigades in the Ground Forces. They consist of one tank battalion - 41 machine. Thus, in combat units of the SV there are about 1700 tanks. Taking into account the naval infantry of the Navy, it can be said that about two thousand tanks are being used in the Russian Armed Forces. The rest are on the bases of storage and repair of military equipment. According to the previously announced plans of military reform for the year 2020, it was supposed to have 109 combined arms brigades of various organizations. But even in this case, the number of tank fleets is unlikely to increase greatly. Obviously, given the geographical location and size of Russia, as well as the assessment of the likely opponents, such a park is completely inadequate.

It is worth more to consider our alleged superiority in quality. Indeed, in Russia it is believed that our tanks are the best in the world, while China’s trash is 60 – 70's. For the armament of the PLA come two types of tanks. This is relatively inexpensive and only equipped with Chinese Type 96 units, representing the development of the Soviet T-72, and the most modern Type 99, a kind of synthesis of Chinese (read - Soviet) and German tank-building concepts. In the design of the latter, both Chinese and the most modern imported units and assemblies are used. Many of them are manufactured in China under a license. According to the most modest estimates, the PLA is armed with about 2500 Type 96 and 600 Type 99, which is approximately 30 percent of the country's tank fleet. Everything else is really rubbish. But if you consider that only two thousand tanks are operated in Russia, the quantitative comparison is again not in our favor. Especially rubbish, and we have plenty - a significant part are T-72B and T-72А. On the technology on the bases of storage and not talk.

Even with the famous T-90 is not all clear. The tank was produced in several series, markedly different from each other. To date, there are 120 T-90 90-s, 32 T-90A with a Buran-M gunner's night sight (including two commanding guns) and 337 T-90A with an Essay thermal imager (including 30 – 40 commander). In 2011, the RA refused from further purchases of the T-90A. Total - 489 modern tanks.

When comparing them with Chinese products, it can be seen that the Type 96 is at the level of T-90, T-80U and T-72BA. Type 99 of the first series (50 units) is uniquely superior to the listed models and roughly corresponds to T-90А with “Buran-M”. But the Type 99A (their 440 units) is generally superior to the T-90A with an Essay thermal imager. As for the Type 99В modification in serial production (the PLA received 120 units), its characteristics correspond to T-90А, the export version of which was demonstrated in Nizhny Tagil in September 2011 of the year and which exists in a single copy. By and large, Russia has nothing to oppose the PLA armored wedges, happen the worst.

Comments

[svp67]

By and large, Russia has nothing to oppose to the PLA armored wedges, if the worst happens.

Yes, of course, but what about the Iskander and Topol? Not to mention "Assaults", "Chrysanthemums" and "Cornets" .....

[Ruslan]

Iskander has analogues in China. dot-u is still the main branch of the Russian Federation. it's too early to talk about chrysanthemums and cornets, there are almost none of them in the troops, especially in two. But it's not even worth talking about poplars, the leadership of the Russian Federation will never use them, if the PRC reaches Baikal, stops and offers peace, Putin will breathe a sigh of relief and agree to surrender two, under friendly nods and pats on the shoulder from the USA and Japan, which will occupy Sakhalin. and then they will give the GDP a peace prize that did not allow a nuclear holocaust, they will threaten China with a finger and build a new world order. And yet, Putin's children live abroad, as soon as the question of a nuclear conflict arises, I am sure the CIA or MI-6 will take them under "protection" and "ask" the GDP to come to an agreement with China. no one in Euro-America is going to risk their investment in China, just because Russia has decided to resist. it is doubtful that the GDP will exchange children for the integrity and honor of the motherland, as Stalin could.
It’s stupid not to notice the threat and boasts of weapons that are almost absent in the army. I hope the PRC is indeed on the drum in Russia.

[sledgehammer102]

It is worth noting that the most modern tanks arrive exclusively in parts of the Beijing, Shenyang and Lanzhou military districts of the PLA, oriented respectively to Transbaikalia, the Far East and Kazakhstan.

And we are arming the Western District to fight with Ukraine and Belarus ?? The author is probably bad with geography, since it is from these districts that you can hit North Korea, what happened there. And if war, then these are the closest provinces to Japan.

Anyway, what the hell is the traditional war in China, the United States, or by any of the nuclear powers?
Here today came an article that Anglo-Saxons pit China and the Russian Federation. here is this article from the same series.
And yes, here's another

But given that only two thousand tanks are operated in Russia, a quantitative comparison is again not in our favor.

First, this is a weird approach to counting our operational tanks.
Second, the author does not mention how many of the produced tanks are operated in China, certainly not all of them are on combat duty for a whole year.

Third, I’m very interested in how it would be possible not to notice 10 000 such a grouping at its borders?
And how to quickly transport this group across the Amur? So what, but to destroy the bridge, the Far East will have enough forces.

[Vovka levka]

Quote: sledgehammer102

It is worth noting that the most modern tanks arrive exclusively in parts of the Beijing, Shenyang and Lanzhou military districts of the PLA, oriented respectively to Transbaikalia, the Far East and Kazakhstan.

And we are arming the Western District to fight with Ukraine and Belarus ?? The author is probably bad with geography, since it is from these districts that you can hit North Korea, what happened there. And if war, then these are the closest provinces to Japan.

Anyway, what the hell is the traditional war in China, the United States, or by any of the nuclear powers?
Here today came an article that Anglo-Saxons pit China and the Russian Federation. here is this article from the same series.
And yes, here's another

But given that only two thousand tanks are operated in Russia, a quantitative comparison is again not in our favor.

First, this is a weird approach to counting our operational tanks.
Second, the author does not mention how many of the produced tanks are operated in China, certainly not all of them are on combat duty for a whole year.

Third, I’m very interested in how it would be possible not to notice 10 000 such a grouping at its borders?
And how to quickly transport this group across the Amur? So what, but to destroy the bridge, the Far East will have enough forces.

Absolutely all the territorial requirements of China to Russia, at the signing of the treaty, were quietly implemented by Russia. In China, in schools, children are taught that all of Siberia to Lake Baikal is China. China needs resources, it is vital for them, and resources in the North. And therefore, the idea is crushed that in the North their territory and more than one generation will grow up with the firm conviction that this is their land. And then what to do about it?
And what is Japan for China? This is a dummy, yes there is hatred that has the deepest roots, but there are no resources. And resources are the main thing, this is the basis.

[sledgehammer102]

Quote: Vovka Levka

In China, in schools, children are taught that all of Siberia to Lake Baikal is China.

Not a damn thing, half of the students do not know such a term as Siberia, although they have indicated this term on all maps (and they are in most classes both at school and at the university).

Quote: Vovka Levka

Absolutely all the territorial requirements of China to Russia, at the signing of the treaty, were quietly implemented by Russia.

Note that the agreement expressly states that China and the Russian Federation no longer have territorial claims

[Vovka levka]

Quote: sledgehammer102

Note that the agreement expressly states that China and the Russian Federation no longer have territorial claims

If the treaties were respected, then there would simply be no wars. Unfortunately, this is not the problem.

[Maks111]

Note that the agreement expressly states that China and the Russian Federation no longer have territorial claims

And Hitler and I had a piece of paper about not attacking.

[dv-v]

It is still good to know Russian geography - to the Baikal the Far East with Transbaikalia, and from Baikal to the Ural Mountains - Siberia, eastern and western.

[Don]

Quote: Vovka Levka

Absolutely all territorial requirements of China to Russia

A few shallow islands on which there was nothing.

Quote: Vovka Levka

In China, in schools, children are taught that all of Siberia to Lake Baikal is China.

Did you study at a Chinese school? I think no. Or is it your hunch?

Quote: Vovka Levka

China needs resources, it’s vital for them,

The PRC already has them, and those of which they do not buy enough. They have enough money, so pipelines from the Russian Federation and Turkmenistan pay for this.

Quote: Vovka Levka

and resources in the North.

Now look at what resources are in Transbaikalia and Primorye. And then look at how many same resources are in China.

Quote: Vovka Levka

And what is Japan for China?

Islands that China considers to be its own and on the shelf of which are oil and gas reserves. And the latest actions of the PRC are just directed towards their geopolitical opponents of Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines.

[Letterksi]

I am simply surprised at the shortsightedness with which most people are convinced that China is so white and fluffy and will never attack, especially in light of the recent exercises to advance deep into the territory up to 2000 km in winter conditions. Probably preparing to attack Taiwan? :))) It seems that many people either forgot or were born after the events on the border of the Kazakh SSR with China and around Damansky Island, and therefore do not imagine what furry China really is.

China has a lot of motives to attack realities. He is just waiting for a convenient moment when Russia will finally come to nirvana, led by the United Russia party. Vultures are already flocking from all directions to tear with their beaks and claws the quick cold corpse of a former mighty power, now wrapped in fur coats from Arctic foxes, and not bristled with trunks

The main thing that China wants to do in such a situation is to invade earlier than NATO. Therefore, nuclear weapons are our everything that can be opposed

[sledgehammer102]

Quote: LetterKsi

when Russia finally comes to nirvana, led by the party united Russia.

Everyone would roll like that))))

[Maks111]

Therefore, nuclear weapons are our everything that can be opposed

And here we recall the uranium deal.

[alex86]

Quote: LetterKsi

Therefore, nuclear weapons are our everything that can be opposed

And I think that we (in the sense of our leadership) are afraid to apply it, and the Chinese are convinced of this. And that is why they are developing a non-nuclear component - they need clean territories.

[Don]

Quote: LetterKsi

The main thing that China wants to do in such a situation is to invade earlier than NATO. Therefore, nuclear weapons are our everything that can be opposed

Again, ravings about the invasion, and now China only faster than NATO runs to invade. All this nonsense is breaking on iron logic. Why didn’t NATO, the PRC and aliens invade the weak country then in the 90s, do they really need resources?

Quote: LetterKsi

He is just waiting for a convenient moment when Russia will finally come to nirvana, led by the United Russia party.

What nirvana, what nonsense ?!

[nightingale]

At 41 they did not notice

[GreatRussia]

Quote: ruslan

the leadership of the Russian Federation will never apply them if the PRC reaches Baikal,

Dmitry Rogozin made a speech in the State Duma as part of the “Government Hour”. “You can experiment as much as you like by placing non-nuclear weapons on strategic carriers, but we must keep in mind that if we are attacked, then in accordance with the doctrine that we have adopted, we will certainly in certain situations resort to the protection of our territories and the highest state interests with the help of nuclear weapons", - quotes the deputy chairman of the government ITAR-TASS.

Rogozin noted that any aggressor or group of aggressors should take this into account. He emphasized that the hypothetical possibility of using nuclear weapons is the main factor in deterring provocations and acts of aggression against the Russian Federation.

“We never downplayed the role of nuclear weapons - weapons of retaliation - as a great equalizer of chances,” Rogozin said.
http://russian.rt.com/article/19571

[Don]

Quote: sledgehammer102

Third, I’m very interested in how it would be possible not to notice 10 000 such a grouping at its borders?
And how to quickly transport this group across the Amur? So what, but to destroy the bridge, the Far East will have enough forces.

That's right. And still do not take into account the climatic conditions of the Far East. Amur region is not Western Russia. There are not many roads. You won’t quickly transfer troops.

[Don]

Quote: sledgehammer102

Third, I’m very interested in how it would be possible not to notice 10 000 such a grouping at its borders?
And how to quickly transport this group across the Amur? So what, but to destroy the bridge, the Far East will have enough forces.

That's right. And still do not take into account the climatic conditions of the Far East. Amur region is not Western Russia. There are not many roads. You won’t quickly transfer troops.

[user]

From Zabaykalsk station to Chita - 472 km. this taking into account the fact that the population is minimal, except for the brigade in Borz there is nothing around the steppe. The question is how long will it take to overcome this distance to the attack tank group and what can the Iskander and Tochka-U do in this case

[just exp]

will be able to call for help Su-34.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: just explo

will be able to call for help Su-34

These aircraft are also few, and besides, the PRC has cover for ZSU and MANPADS, as well as its own aviation, to cover up the operations of its own air forces.

[just exp]

and what drying can only use bombs?
I thought it was a sinful thing that there were enough missiles that would not only cover the tanks without entering the air defense zone with cassettes.

[Don]

Quote: wanderer_032

there will probably be both ZSU and MANPADS

They can’t bring down the Su-34.

Quote: wanderer_032

as well as its own aviation.

Their aviation must first try to cope with the aviation and air defense of the Russian Federation.

[svp67]

Quote: user

Iskander and Point-U

Everything - attacks on cities and industrial centers with MILLION-MILLION victims, the destruction of command posts, transport hubs and the accumulation of troops, the creation of radioactive zones, it will not seem shorter ...

[Don]

Quote: user

From Zabaykalsk station to Chita - 472 km. this taking into account the fact that the population is minimal, except for the brigade in Borz there is nothing around the steppe. The question is how long will it take to overcome this distance to the attack tank group and what can the Iskander and Tochka-U do in this case

1. What steppes? Most of the Trans-Baikal Territory is mountains.
2. In addition to the motorized rifle brigade in Borz, you can still throw a brigade from Kyakhta, a tank brigade from Ulan-Ude, an artillery brigade from Gorny, and even internal troops and less than a day you can throw troops from the USC West or USC Center.
3. Tanks of China will not be there for a walk. For them, aircraft from Domna and Chita can easily work.

[svp67]

Quote: ruslan

It’s stupid not to notice the threat and boasts of weapons that are almost absent in the army. I hope the PRC is indeed on the drum in Russia.

It’s stupid not to understand that there will be no war tomorrow, and by the time the relations worsen, these types of weapons will be our main types of weapons ...
The GDP is not so much "looking into the mouth of the United States and Europias" to act according to your plan, and even when the United States, while they are strong, will not allow China to seize Siberia - they understand that without a reliable raw material base, China VERY vulnerable, it is not for nothing that he is "harmed" in every possible way in Africa, and the fact that the US is now OVERCOMING from the crisis, and China is entering it ...

[Tartary]

Quote: ruslan

Iskander has analogues in China. dot-u is still the main branch of the Russian Federation. it's too early to talk about chrysanthemums and cornets, there are almost none of them in the troops, especially in two. But it's not even worth talking about poplars, the leadership of the Russian Federation will never use them, if the PRC reaches Baikal, stops and offers peace, Putin will breathe a sigh of relief and agree to surrender two, under friendly nods and pats on the shoulder from the USA and Japan, which will occupy Sakhalin. and then they will give the GDP a peace prize that did not allow a nuclear holocaust, they will threaten China with a finger and build a new world order. And yet, Putin's children live abroad, as soon as the question of a nuclear conflict arises, I am sure the CIA or MI-6 will take them under "protection" and "ask" the GDP to come to an agreement with China. no one in Euro-America is going to risk their investment in China, just because Russia has decided to resist. it is doubtful that the GDP will exchange children for the integrity and honor of the motherland, as Stalin could.
It’s stupid not to notice the threat and boasts of weapons that are almost absent in the army. I hope the PRC is indeed on the drum in Russia.

Iskander maybe not ............. Although how to know?
But "Point-U" is definitely there - damn it ...

[alex86]

Quote: ruslan

stupid not to notice the threat

And here is full of people who think "Moscow-Beijing is friendship forever." Yes, even without tanks, they will let ahead the extra fifty million extra - and our leaders will "put in their pants" and will not risk either the European part, or investments in Europe (and in our country), or children and their future. We argue within the 20th year, and they have lived for centuries (or rather, for millennia), and they still live. And if we don't wake up, then "our corpse will float past China, sitting on a hill." And Russia will remain to the Urals, already without Siberia. So you have to do something ...

[Don]

Quote: ruslan

it's too early to talk about chrysanthemums and cornets, they are almost absent in the troops

There are not many chrysanthemums, but there are 750 Cornets, as well as Bassoons, Storm-S, RPGs of various types, Rapiers. Is this not enough? And tanks can only destroy ATGM? Attack helicopters and attack aircraft in Russia are few?

Quote: ruslan

the leadership of the Russian Federation will never apply them, if the People's Republic of China reaches Baikal, stops and offers peace, Putin will breathe a sigh of relief and agree to surrender

This is your opinion no more.

Quote: ruslan

Putin's children live abroad

What are you? And where do not tell me, or again stupid opposition chatter?

[Don]

Quote: ruslan

it's too early to talk about chrysanthemums and cornets, they are almost absent in the troops

There are not many chrysanthemums, but there are 750 Cornets, as well as Bassoons, Storm-S, RPGs of various types, Rapiers. Is this not enough? And tanks can only destroy ATGM? Attack helicopters and attack aircraft in Russia are few?

Quote: ruslan

the leadership of the Russian Federation will never apply them, if the People's Republic of China reaches Baikal, stops and offers peace, Putin will breathe a sigh of relief and agree to surrender

This is your opinion no more.

Quote: ruslan

Putin's children live abroad

What are you? And where do not tell me, or again stupid opposition chatter?

[shishkin7676]

Mao said -Do not be afraid of nuclear war, well, 500 million Chinese will die ....... China took a 5,8 x42 cartridge significantly longer than ours !!!!!

[Alekseev]

Quote: svp67

Yes, of course, but what about the Iskander and Topol?

Absolutely accurate definition!
The modern Russian Federation does not have the opportunity to deploy a group of NEs, including tanks, more than China. Although in some important areas
the necessary minimum of troops should, of course, be. Not everything can be solved with nuclear weapons ... dangerous, however ...

[Nayhas]

Quote: svp67

Yes, of course, and Iskander ...?

Here you touched on the saddest aspect. China, which is not part of the INF Treaty, is developing this direction with might and main. Against our few Iskander missiles with a range of 400 km. China can exhibit:
DF-11, range 300km.

DF-15, range 600km., (There is already a variant DF-16 with a range of 800km.)

DF-21, range 1700km.

DF-25, range 3200 km.

Quote: svp67

and Poplar?

And here is the answer to Poplar:
DF-31, range 11000 km.

As you can see all the BRs on the car chassis. The launch range covers the entire territory of Russia.

[svp67]

Quote: Nayhas

Here you touched on the saddest aspect.

But this is THAT that REALLY can HOLD them ...

[St Petrov]

still forgot about such an aspect as the population density of the Middle Kingdom + the number of dams, in the event of an impact on which they will wash away a lot. The Ministry of Defense knows what to do in case of Chinese aggression. Packages lie and wait when they are opened. This headache is not for members of the forum for sure =]

[wanderer_032]

Quote: s-t Petrov

This headache is not for members of the forum for sure =]

Uh-huh.
And only carriers of stripes from the Moscow Region who have these envelopes stocked (probably the enemy will beat them on the head) will go pouring blood.
And people living in Siberia and the Far East will look from the side and calmly disperse through the forests and dugouts.

[yehat]

4 helicopters will take into the trash about 30 tanks for 1 take-off without the use of expensive artillery and without much risk, and this is only one of many means.
There are significantly more helicopters in the Far East.
The numerical superiority will be quickly eliminated, and without the possibility of an offensive, war loses its meaning.

[wanderer_032]

What do you think fools are sitting in the Chinese headquarters and do not take these circumstances into account?
All this is provided for in the planning of operations.
In addition, almost uncontrolled marching across the border in those places gives the Chinese a good opportunity to transfer their sabotage groups, for example, and it is not known whether our helicopters will take off on a mission at the right time.

[Su24]

Another nonsense about the fact that China has been attacking since next week. Numbers and comparisons sucked from a finger, ridiculous statements about China's uncontested aggressiveness. And people believe that is interesting. They also believe, as well as unverified reports of Caucasians crimes, about another outbreak of influenza. I am no longer surprised at the lack of critical thinking about our population.

[PROXOR]

PLA is strong, no doubt. But even they can do little against the Russian partisans. Ask Napoleon and Hitler. China will wash in the blood. Again, skillful command negates the numerical superiority of the enemy. Take, for example, the Arab-Israeli wars and tank breakthroughs of German wedges in the summer of 1941. Do not forget that back in the USSR, from our southern neighbor, a mining system was developed along the borders of nuclear mines. Bookmarks prepared for these mines. Before the PLA tanks can enter the operational space, they will be forced to overcome the tank moat longer than the Wall of China.

[Blinov_I]

Hitler and Napoleon fought in the European part of Russia, where the main part of the people lived / lives. In the "threatened" territory near China, barely 7 million Russians live. Who will go to the partisans? Will they come from the European part of the country?

[PROXOR]

Quote: Blinov_I

Hitler and Napoleon fought in the European part of Russia, where the main part of the people lived / lives. In the "threatened" territory near China, barely 7 million Russians live. Who will go to the partisans? Will they come from the European part of the country?

I don’t know about you, but if I start a major war I myself will come to the collection point.

[Nayhas]

Quote: PROXOR

I don’t know about you, but if I start a major war I myself will come to the collection point.

Well, how much do you partisan in the Far Eastern or Siberian taiga without food and ammunition? Partisan is real only where there are many settlements with the population supporting these partisans with food and medicine, but in Siberia and in the Far East there are very few settlements, this is not for you Ukraine and Belarus ...

[PROXOR]

Quote: Nayhas

Well, how much do you partisan in the Far Eastern or Siberian taiga without food and ammunition? Partisan is real only where there are many settlements with the population supporting these partisans with food and medicine, but in Siberia and in the Far East there are very few settlements, this is not for you Ukraine and Belarus ...

As much as I can. But if I put 20 pieces of China, I think it’s not in vain that I went.

[alex86]

Quote: PROXOR

But if I put 20 pieces of China

And what is your confidence in this based on? In theory, we are all "Rambo", but in practice, if you take off my glasses (knock them off), then I, with my -6 diopters (with the experience of wearing glasses at 39 years), will not distinguish a Chinese from a "non-Chinese" from 5 meters. Yes, and in glasses when shooting from an AK I see either an aiming bar, or a front sight, or a target (not good enough) - one of three. And when shooting "from the belly", these 20 pieces must first be somehow concentrated in front of me - so I'm ready to go, but it's good for me - and we have the majority of them. I can build something ...

[Massik]

Ahah, what kind of support is there ??? They don’t need people for nothing, their own doh ** on, they will cut everyone out, like just extra mouths.

[M. Peter]

Quote: Nayhas

Partisan is real only where there are many settlements with the population supporting these partisans with food and medicine, but in Siberia and in the Far East there are very few settlements, this is not for you Ukraine and Belarus ...

And in the Ukraine and Belarus in the winter under -40 happened, or did their taips, unlike our tacheks, start up cold in the cold?

[wanderer_032]

Basically, all the equipment of Chinese aircraft, is based on ours.
Plus, this is a symbiosis of all proven design decisions of world manufacturers of military equipment for the reliability of components and assemblies transferred to the PRC industry and adapted to their people (in terms of managing this equipment).
Also, climatic conditions in China are far from everywhere can be called ideally comfortable for human habitation, rather, on the contrary, many regions, especially in the north of the country, are very close or completely like in Russia.

[Patriot]

Well, the food then runs in the taiga and flies so that I think that there will be no problems with food, if only with ammunition

[M. Peter]

Quote: PROXOR

I don’t know about you, but if I start a major war I myself will come to the collection point.

You will not be alone. I will defend my land to the last.

[Maks111]

I don’t know about you, but if I start a major war I myself will come to the collection point.

This one we are always welcome, but will our Motherland and our people survive (given the demographic hole) another big war ...... ??? We are dying out in hundreds of thousands in peacetime, not to mention the war.

[PSih2097]

Quote: Blinov_I

Hitler and Napoleon fought in the European part of Russia, where the main part of the people lived / lives. In the "threatened" territory near China, barely 7 million Russians live. Who will go to the partisans? Will they come from the European part of the country?

Then there were no UAVs and reconnaissance aircraft with the corresponding equipment, there were no space satellites, they will find you very quickly (the example of Chechnya is not accepted) ...

[Bongo]

Yeah in the partisans, with -40, in the taiga. Tavarischu that such a proposal itself would not be bad to live some time in the Far Eastern taiga. Yes, and in the summer there is not sugar. And where are the wives with children to go, also partisans?

[Nagaibak]

PROXOR "The PLA is strong, no doubt. But even they can do little against the Russian partisans [."
Russian partisans are certainly power. Hehe ... only in the Far East where do you dial them? There is a population with a gulkin nose. Chineses can surround every village and try partisans. Joke...
There were partisans there during the Civil War, but no one took them seriously. And then ... any partisan movement is strongly supported first of all either from the center or from abroad. As soon as the supply from outside ceases, anti-partisan, operational measures are carried out, everything ends. An example of this is the Basmachi, forest brothers, Bandera.
If the center, that is, the command controls the partisan, then it is successful. An example of both our World War II.
However, successful experience in the fight against partisans will not suit my opinion for such a democratic country as Russia at the moment. In a country where there is no death penalty, you can fight the gang underground for hundreds of years.
I don’t know about the anti-tank ditches, but the weak road network in the Far East will hit both the advancing and the defenders.

[PROXOR]

Quote: Nagaibak

I don’t know about the anti-tank ditches, but the weak road network in the Far East will hit both the advancing and the defenders.

Well, tanks should be put on the roads evenly, although this will be problematic for a 60 ton Taipu 99. But then again. The Chinese people obviously have military road workers who put a high-speed highway 40-50 km per day.

[Semurg]

In general, the Autobahn is being built in Western Europe and Western China, and in 2015 a 4-6 lane concrete will be completed in some places already in operation and goes to Russia in the Orenbug region. From Almaty to Astana and further to Petropavlovsk with access to Omsk, concrete construction will begin to be completed this year. These roads are built on the money of China. Well, an asphalt road to Ust-Kamen with access to Barnaul exists. So, if China seriously wants to cut Russia, there are roads along the Urals, but why would they buy everything they need in peace and trade that will be more profitable and cheaper (China received disputed lands and islands from Russia and from the state of Middle Asia and the Republic of Kazakhstan , now the disputed lands and islands in the Pacific Theater and the south of China). Well, the army, and in particular the armored forces, must correspond to the new status of China as a superpower (they would still have a Death Star and have a complete entourage ).

[wanderer_032]

PLA is strong, no doubt. But even they can do little against the Russian partisans.

You are mistaken, dear, the mobilization system in case of war is poorly organized in our country (in case of war the flock of flocks will be madly crazy (considering who works for us at the military registration and enlistment offices and how their work is organized, now is not the time of the Second World War and the situation will be such that it will go for hours and minutes, and not for weeks and days as in 1941.) with indistinctly set tasks, poorly equipped and armed with trash (which must be driven to overhaul before going into battle) from the storage bases for weapons and equipment, but there may be problems with the provision of ammunition and other equipment necessary for warfare) there is practically no trained reserve (all who served in the military service more than 5 years ago have already lost their skills (if they were received) as specialists, as well as physical . form (in connection with a peaceful measured way of life, many added in size due to irrepressible consumption of food, many drink for weeks without drying out and addict in black), prepared and ready to act in case of We don’t need partisan detachments, nor do we have a system of bases and field depots with weapons and other supplies that are essential for such situations.

The only thing that saves us from the PRC is that there is a Strategic Missile Forces for now.

[Massik]

It remains to add that now there is not even half of the ideology of the 1940 period,

5 years ago

this is still strongly said, but half of the newly released conscripts somehow pull on the concept of "soldier".

[Patton5]

"Tukhochevsky" you are ours !!!! Reading your komenty is like listening to your grandmother at the entrance ... All is gone to scream the guard, you don't need much intelligence, you'd better suggest countermeasures, or how you need to organize the work of recruiting offices. And there are dozens of such egsperds in every yard, especially if there is motivation in the form of a bottle of fiery liquid !!!

[Alekseev]

Quote: Patton5

"Tukhochevsky" you are ours !!!! Reading your comments is like listening to your grandmother at the entrance ...

But it is so! Unpleasant, really ...
And how work

Quote: Patton5

recruiting points.

organize and much, much, much is well known.
But instead they carry out "reforms" led by odious individuals.
Here you can’t figure it out without

Quote: Patton5

bottle of fiery liquid

[Patton5]

It just seems to me that with the modern development of technology in the military sphere, mobilization work after an attack (let's say the PRC) is doomed to minimal success, with any degree of debugging ... It’s correctly noted that wars of the Great Patriotic War are not expected in the near future, and if China suddenly sets its mind to attack FIRST (this is important) then no amount of divisions will stop him, on June 22, 1941, as an analogy ... I am interested to know what forum users are offering? Could it be that there are a million soldiers, 20 tanks in constant combat readiness, in that direction? To clash so to speak ???

[Massik]

doomed to minimal success, with any degree of debugging

Yes, there isn’t much to debug here, trucks with crews of 3 warriors and lists of citizens to be mobilized, by the collar, in the ranks, an automatic machine in hand, a helmet on his head and forward to and fro along the CBP. It is unlikely to succeed in another way with our love for those in power and the fatherland.

[wanderer_032]

The main purpose of my comment was to open the eyes of the cheers-patriots who think (naively like children) that our country is ahead of the rest in terms of security and no one wants to take anything away from us, that they say there are no hunters to profit at our expense in the world, and generally all nishtyak.
Therefore, you can continue to relax by drinking a swill until the piglet screeches on weekends and build pink dreams of a paradise with acorns, hanging pink drool.
The problems that I have identified, they know at the very top (but no matter how strange they continue to just know). I did not discover Columbus and America here. I was just sick of watching it and sitting silently.
I want everyone to whom our country is dear (as well as the life of their near and dear ones), but a little out of topic of what we may encounter, pointed their ears to the top of their head and looked at both. And were ready to defend their land without waiting for help from orders from the center (you can’t wait for them if something happens), but you were ready to do it yourself (at least from the survival instinct).
And the one who has everything in place (and the ears are pointed and looks at both), it does not concern those, everything is in order with them.
If we are ready (at least a little), then we will stand.

[Patton5]

Noble goal, but your judgments about the modern war with reality have little in common ... Do you want to change something? Go to study, well, at least MVVKU. And sitting on the forum it’s unlikely that something will change in life ...

[Alekseev]

Quote: PROXOR

PLA is strong, no doubt.

But military conflicts with nuclear Russia according to the Second World War scenario: with the concentration of huge military groupings, attacks of armored armada in the depths of the Vraja territory, etc. cannot be by definition. For there are no applicants for the role of suicides.
Such an invasion can be easily nullified not only by the Topols, but also by low-yield nuclear weapons, which can be used even by 152-mm artillery.
A military threat may manifest itself in a different capacity. Now, if millions of inhabitants of the Middle Kingdom slowly as migrant workers crawl to Russia, then the rights will begin to be downloaded according to a scenario like Kosovsky. And China will protect and support them, maybe not officially.
Where to direct Poplar? On Chita with Khabarovsk and Vladik?
Here, in my opinion, is the case when tanks, even if not the very very ones, and infantry will be very needed. That's what urgent and mob is for. reserves.

[M. Peter]

You exaggerate the threat of Chinese domination, we don’t have China here, and the border is well guarded, play the way, as some say above, just nonsense and alarmist.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: M.Pyotr

no, we have chinas here

Have you been to the Far East for a long time? And in the territories of Eastern Siberia?
What a jester with him, even in Western territory?

Quote: M.Pyotr

border guard well

Where did we get so many illegal immigrants from then on? and from China?
By the way, 3-4 years ago there was a news report that the place of residence of Chinese illegal immigrants was covered in Moscow, but this is not remarkable, but the fact that they had their own mobile communication station (node) in that place that provided illegal communication to unregistered the territory of the Russian Federation (respectively, and in our cellular networks) by subscribers, directly from China.
What do you think, what information and in what quantity can be transmitted through such a communication channel? At the same time, the life of this unit was not reported.

Quote: M.Pyotr

You exaggerate the threat of Chinese dominance

Quote: M.Pyotr

just nonsense and alarmism

And what kind of feelings do you personally feel when you are in the territory of our country of people who illegally crossed the border (which is already a criminal offense under the laws of the Russian Federation) and are here for unknown purposes (maybe they can knock some money out, or maybe there’s something else to do, for example, to poison tap water having broken a small ampoule) and have their own community (s) living according to their laws and rules (consider the state in the state), this doesn’t cause any concern for you at all, huh?
Quite quite?

[M. Peter]

Quote: wanderer_032

Have you been to the Far East for a long time? And in the territories of Eastern Siberia? Yes, a jester with him, even in Western?

You would at least look at my profile, there you would find out that I’m just in eastern Siberia and I live.

[zyablik.olga]

Quote: M.Pyotr

You exaggerate the threat of Chinese domination, we don’t have China here, and the border is well guarded, play the way, as some say above, just nonsense and alarmist.

Yes, but for some reason all the fortified areas and most of the military units on the border have been liquidated. And the border detachments in order to "save" "enlarge" instead of 3 becomes 1.

[alex86]

Quote: PROXOR

skillful command negates the numerical superiority of the enemy

It is precisely this phrase that is most alarming - and it will be, "skillful command". Absolutely not wanting to offend anyone, but about the Georgian company it was said that "Georgia was counting on modern high-tech military operations, while Russia imposed classical military operations on it." So, in the case of China, how would we not change places: we will rely on high-tech (here is the question - is it with the T-72B3?) Military operations, and they are traditional tank wedges, not paying attention to losses - ... well. , etc...

[Kovrovsky]

It seems that in modern realities tank battles are hardly possible, as during the Battle of Kursk. In Iraq, the bulk of Iraqi armored vehicles was destroyed from the air. In my opinion, modern tanks now talk about the country's military-technical potential and serve primarily as a political tool.

[Nayhas]

Quote: Kovrovsky

It seems that in modern realities tank battles are hardly possible, as during the Battle of Kursk. In Iraq, the bulk of Iraqi armored vehicles was destroyed from the air.

We in the Far East and Siberia do not have such opportunities to kill Chinese tanks from the air. The distance to the airfields from the border with China is small, China’s aviation density is higher, China can destroy our airfields both by air and by air strikes.

[Alekseev]

Quote: Kovrovsky

tank battles are hardly possible, as during the Battle of Kursk. In Iraq, the bulk of Iraqi armored vehicles was destroyed from the air.

And in the Battle of Kursk (and other battles of the Second World War) from the air, few armored vehicles were destroyed?
I assure you that there is a lot, and even without air supremacy, even then no land offensive could succeed.
The discussion is not about "tank battles", which in reality, have always been combined arms, but about the availability of the required number of Ground Forces on the eastern borders of our country. Yes, it would be more correct to say about the possibility of deploying the necessary (capable) groups at the right time in the right place and in a reasonable time. And the fact that in addition to them, aviation, and air defense, and everything else are needed, is self-evident.

[sataha666]

"In recent decades, the number of the PLA tank fleet has been invariably maintained at 10 thousand units. This is the largest value in the world. Why does the PRC have so many armored vehicles?"

and Further:

"According to the published data, as of January 1, 2012, there were 14 tanks in service with the Russian army."

For me it’s 14 more than 10.

"When comparing them with Chinese products, it can be seen that the Type 96 is at the level of the T-90, T-80U and T-72BA. The Type 99 of the first series (50 units) is clearly superior to the listed models and roughly corresponds to the T-90A with Buran-M "But the Type 99A (there are 440 units) is generally superior to the T-90A with the Essa thermal imager. As for the Type 99B modification, which is in serial production (120 units have arrived at the PLA), its characteristics correspond to the T-90AM, the export version of which was demonstrated in Nizhny Tagil in September 2011 and which exists in a single copy. "

Since when is the export model better than the original? what turns out they took our t-72 and upgraded it better than we did to the t-90? Yes, electronic filling there may be better, and German dviglo, but no more ...

[patsantre]

Quote: sataha666

For me it’s 14 more than 10.

Out of 14, only 2 are exploited.

Quote: sataha666

Since when is the export model better than the original? what turns out they took our t-72 and upgraded it better than we did to the t-90? Yes, electronic filling there may be better, and German dviglo, but no more ...

Google the T-90MS and after that, cast your voice, otherwise sheer nonsense.

[sataha666]

Quote: patsantre

Out of 14, only 2 are exploited.

they also have not all 10.

It’s exactly about the t-90s that I made a mistake, this is a modification of the t-90a for us, and not for export. T-90SM is only an export modification of T-90AM and it is clear that it is not better

[Archikah]

Learn Chinese gentlemen. Soon we will have to fight here too. They used to live “behind the wall”. At the time of Romanovytskh, part of the territory was grabbed from Russia. They invented their nonexistent ancient history. And now they are preparing to take Siberia away from us. What friendship is possible with a dragon and a bear. That's right - none.

[Chaplain]

It honestly makes no sense to fight countries such as China or the USA, only a massive nuclear strike can stop them, until these opponents are completely destroyed. That is, in these circumstances, it is urgently necessary to modernize air defense and strategic, tactical nuclear forces. But in no case should we forget about traditional troops, this is fatal for Russia.

[Slevinst]

the war about which the author speaks is not just a battle of tanks, there are helicopters and planes as well as missiles, some tanks are simply useless and the more Chinese tanks attack, the easier it will be to hit them. The Chinese will not trample on us as long as we have an army

[chunga-changa]

Citizen Baryatinsky understands tanks. It is regrettable that he, like many "experts", generally excludes the war with China from nuclear weapons. Yes, we have fewer tanks, much less people. But we have a lot of nuclear weapons, both tactical and strategic. It is simply naive to hope that in the event of a war it will not be launched by one or both warring parties. I am sure that military planners do not suffer from naivety. Yes, a war in Kazakhstan is possible, but Russia can prevent it simply by declaring that it will defend the territory of Kazakhstan as its own.
A map of the population of China shows. Half of the territory is almost not populated due to difficult physical conditions. They immediately seriously assume that China will start a war over our territories with the same, and in some places even worse living conditions.

[Nayhas]

Quote: chunga-changa

The fact that he, like many "interested" and "experts" generally excludes the war with China from nuclear weapons

Because clearly no one will apply it, knowing that the enemy also has it. It’s like with chemical weapons. At the end of 1941 The USSR was in an extremely difficult situation, but despite this it did not use chemical weapons against the advancing Wehrmacht, although its reserves were large. It was understood that one could get an equally deadly answer. For the same reason in 1945. Germany did not use chemical weapons against the advancing spacecraft. Nuclear weapons are many times more deadly than chemical weapons and in a war between two countries that possess them, their use is impossible even at a tactical level.

Quote: chunga-changa

Yes, a war is possible in Kazakhstan, but Russia can prevent it by simply stating that it will protect the territory of Kazakhstan as its own.

There are no fools in China, they understand very well that we simply have nothing to defend Kazakhstan. First of all, it will be necessary to cover the Far East and Siberia; there are already not enough forces in Kazakhstan. And without military bases in Kazakhstan, this will not be possible. The strength of the Kazakh army is so small that the fighting will not last long, Nazarbay and his retinue will dump in Moscow (or where further, where is his money), and the army will scatter.

Quote: chunga-changa

A map of the population of China shows. Half of the territory is almost not populated due to difficult physical conditions.

You probably mean climate? This is a dangerous fallacy. The population density in the northern regions of China is incomparably lower relative to the southern regions, this is undoubtedly, but when compared with the population density of our Siberia and the Far East, it is incomparably higher at times. But this is not the main thing. See how in China they solve the problem of Uyghurs. The Chinese government is relocating the Chinese from the central regions to S-UA, and if earlier the Uighurs accounted for about 70-80% of the population of S-UAR, now it is no more than 20-30%. Those. raised the peasants and said, you will live in the north in S-UAR, they got up and went there, NOBODY asks their wishes! The same with Tibet. There is an active relocation of the Chinese to Tibet, no one asks for a desire to live there, the party has such a word! The latest example is the Gorno-Badakhshan Autonomous Region of Tajikistan, namely the part that China took from Tajikistan. Life in this area is harsh, there is little rainfall, it is cold, but despite this, the Chinese are moving there and they manage to farm in those conditions. It would seem that they lost there, because it is so difficult to live there (more difficult than in the Far East or in Siberia), but the party said to settle, and that's settled. And so it will be everywhere where the party says live, there the Chinese will live, even in Kamchatka, even in Transbaikalia ...

[Letterksi]

Sorry, you're right. The Chinese destroyers. They, like locusts, will ask neither about the language, nor about the great culture, nor about religion - everything will be destroyed in an instant. The maximum that will be allowed, the population of the captured country is to bring golf balls to the new owners of Siberia, and women to marry the Chinese, and the unemployed remnants of men will rest in longing at the bottom of the bottle

Therefore, in the USSR, unprecedented measures were taken to strengthen the borders with China.

[chunga-changa]

Quote: LetterKsi

Therefore, in the USSR, unprecedented measures were taken to strengthen the borders with China.

Is this for example? Give me a link.
And about golf courses in Siberia, this is generally beyond. Unless your Siberia is located on the Florida coast. And about the bottom of the bottle, you pass off your addictions as a universal hobby.

[Letterksi]

And about golf courses in Siberia, this is generally beyond. Unless your Siberia is on the Florida coast

Convinced! In Siberia, they will be allowed to wear skis afterwards and serve ski poles

Is this for example? Give me a link.

Better prove the opposite with a reference. I do not want to prove that the snow is white. This topic on the defense of the border with China has been raised on this site too. The article was about the construction of DOS along the border and shooting each meter, border crossing and the direction of the offensive. By the way, Serdyuk exposed many areas of the possible offensive

[chunga-changa]

About a dangerous delusion, I recommend living in Siberia for a couple of years, at least in the warmest and most comfortable area. I’m not talking about kolyma at all now. It is clear that 90% of Siberia work on a rotational basis because it is more fun. About nuclear weapons, I already wrote "It is simply naive to hope that in the event of a war it (nuclear weapons) will not be used by one or both of the belligerent parties." Good luck in your work. And she said about the party - the Chinese people answered yes, then apparently you are not aware that the Chinese people at the last plenum decided to build capitalism, how this will end up, we understand.

[NKVD]

All this and copies and complete crap. They will never learn how to make metal like the originals

[Evgan]

five tank brigades with 91–94 vehicles each

- That is, in terms of tank striking power, is a modern brigade equal to the old tank regiment? Sad ...

[Walking]

China must be taken seriously, you can’t throw it with hats.

[leon-iv]

Oh eternal theme. Khetay attacks Russia tomorrow, and our rifles with a brick clean the bicha pichal.
This topic is as eternal as a mess in Nenko.
You would ask the Far East what kind of terrain there is. Ali, you do not know that all possible options for 100500 are selected for kshu and other hussar meetings.
In general, the topic is dull.

[Kazbek]

It’s complete nonsense, for example, Kazakhstan, when Mongolia is near, the same Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. If they want to cope with us even without war, you, in my opinion, are already teeming with Chinese Far East. They need to be afraid that when there are a lot of them, they will start pumping rights and will demand autonomy.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Kazbek

They need to be afraid that when there are a lot of them, they will start pumping rights and will demand autonomy.

And when our people start talking to them about whether they will crack something (by raising riot police and explosives), then the very mess will be trampled (in response, they will call their army to defend the rights of the "oppressed" enclaves). The prerequisites for this already exist.
What's next?
What will we answer?
When there are 1000 of our 10000 Chinese.

[M. Peter]

Yes, stop writing nonsense, I live near China, eastern Siberia, we do not have Chinese.

[wanderer_032]

Strange, but in our Omsk region there are a lot of them.
They even have their own greenhouse-greenhouse complexes almost all over the region (they are the closest to my village about 25 km from the village, from there vegetables are dumped from there in the fall). And in the territories of Eastern Siberia they are full, they have whole logging enterprises there (not counting illegal sorties), local news about their tricks is already annoying.
Maybe you live on the moon, huh?

[Alekseev]

Quote: M.Pyotr

stop writing nonsense, I live near China, eastern Siberia, we do not have Chinese.

Where is Petruha hiding?
In Blag (Blagoveshchensk) they were full already in the 90s.
Not like locusts, but many.

[M. Peter]

Where where, in Ulan-Ude.
In the 90s, we had plenty of them too.
I will not argue that now there is none at all, but to argue that they are a dime a dozen here too. The buildings that were 5-6 years ago were filled with Chinese, were replenished with guests from Central Asia. The Chinese have their own business, grow vegetables in greenhouses and keep all sorts of restaurants, but no more. We have much more other nationalities, if you follow your logic, it is better to fear Ukraine, there are a lot of Ukrainians, apparently they are preparing to conquer the Far East and Eastern Siberia of the Russian Federation.

[Dimon-chik-79]

Quote: Hiking

China must be taken seriously, you can’t throw it with hats.

Do not throw, definitely
Especially now at the present time, with the Serdyakovskaya pseudo-reformation of the army from which we will be expecting a long time, and after it the rearmament of the army is not particularly impressive so far (especially the modernization in the form of T-72B3, BMP-2, BTR-82A, etc. ) Yes, and the scale with the volumes are not amazing and do not inspire unfortunately.

[Yarosvet]

--------------------------

[Patton5]

According to information from the USSR Ministry of Defense, as of January 1, 1990, there were 63 tanks, 900 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers in service ......... Why all this splendor ????? Did the USA stop us from another continent ????? Are we going to attack someone first ?????

[not good]

To date, China’s mobile reserves are estimated at about 200000000 people. And they didn’t even write off the T-34s for storage equipment, but put it on conservation, unlike Serdyukov who wrote off a bunch of workable equipment as scrap metal.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Patton5

Nearby was Europe and NATO.

[Patton5]

And right next to China is South Korea, Japan, India

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Patton5

And right next to China is South Korea

Small and weak in comparison with China, along the path of which is also tame North Korea.

Japan

Small, unable to wage an offensive war and located behind a natural water barrier

India

The only more or less equivalent opponent (among those listed), located behind the hills and not having any serious claims

[Patton5]

Why China 20 tanks, in the photo there are just so many .- 2 tanks Likely to equip a tank battalion. Agree, a tank battalion without tanks, this is strong !!!

[Knifebot.]

Oh again 25 ... and why would China with more than a billion people and more than a billion India not have 10 thousand tanks at hand? why are they placed where are they located? This is, firstly, a question that should be studied in more detail, whether they are placed there at all, and secondly, there may be infrastructural considerations.

Where to apply such a bunch of tanks? and why actually it is necessary to apply it to Siberia? there’s a place for tanks so-so, but to Kazakhstan, Mongolia is welcome, there is where to go for a ride, but they won’t go until the circumstances turn out that way, if necessary, they are far from this (circumstances), but if they it will turn out like this, but they won’t have tanks - they will obviously regret it - that’s why they have it ... and the circumstances should be very difficult, so that war (with the risk of getting nuclear weapons) would become cheaper than trade, it’s even difficult imagine what should happen there ...

[silver_roman]

Chinese tank thought: the base - T72, the cannon - 2a46 of the USSR as well as the AZ, the engine - the Germans, the electronics - France ... in short everything is ashamed. It seems to me that if the tank has its own developments, then they will fail in the first place.

By and large, Russia has nothing to oppose to the PLA armored wedges, if the worst happens.

The tiger surpassed the t-34-85 in armor and weaponry, so what? they beat ....
and again, a new family of a single combat platform is being designed. Patience...
I personally do not believe in Chinese tech. miracle and science. by itself there are serious shifts, but all copies.
What do they have their own weapons? what about the 5th generation aircraft, if there are already 3 prototypes? I also thought that China .. scary. Of course it’s very dangerous, but we are pushed against each other by foreheads. In addition, the tank is full of other measures, in addition to the tanks themselves. The main tactics and strategy.

[Tex]

topic Pts. interesting, sorry I didn’t notice the opinion of the staff officer, I would like to hear. But in general, if you collect the information bit by bit from the media, the picture is not happy. At the expense of partisans in the Far East, they already exist there, only Chinese, but there are many of them throughout Russia. At the expense of cheap fakes, so there are a lot of their Pts and they are getting better and better (this is about tanks and missiles). At the expense of tactics of warfare in the Amur region, etc., since the Union is not in vain there even buried 34ki in the 60s land as firing points, stuffed the area with fortified areas, and did not rely on tanks and nuclear weapons, although there were only dohas. respected means a neighbor! China, brothers, an ancient civilization that is fundamentally different from Europeans, if anyone does not remember this is the birthplace of gunpowder, silk, paper, rockets and much more, and those who served under the alliance should remember that the Chinese threat was taken more than seriously. There is only one conclusion, do not slam under any circumstances, create (restore) a divisional scheme even there, + separate Soviet-style quick reaction brigades, well, the one who wrote above about using helicopters on difficult terrain was right (it’s clear that under reliable cover ) it really can become a counterweight to tank wedges for which rocky roads are being built to the borders of the Russian Federation by the way

[Patton5]

It was not in vain that the Union there even buried 34ki in the 60s as firing points, stuffed the area with fortified areas, and did not rely on tanks and nuclear weapons, although there were only dohas. respected means a neighbor!

What can be said with certainty is the failure of the USSR’s foreign policy towards the PRC, that people came to power after Stalin .... so much has been written and said about this already !!!! Such an ally was profiled

[M. Peter]

Quote: Patton5

Such an ally was profiled

+1 dear, I will add to your words that after Stalin, not only the ally was profiled, but also everything done by him, right up to the great page.

[cayman]

Quote: knifebot

Where to apply such a bunch of tanks? and why actually it is necessary to apply it to Siberia? there’s a place for tanks so-so, but to Kazakhstan, Mongolia is welcome, there is where to go for a ride, but they won’t go until the circumstances turn out that way, if necessary, they are far from this (circumstances), but if they it will turn out like this, but they won’t have tanks - they will obviously regret it - that’s why they have it ... and the circumstances should be very difficult, so that war (with the risk of getting nuclear weapons) would become cheaper than trade, it’s even difficult imagine what should happen there ...

Yes, there’s no mystery here. In the strategic scenario, the situation is clear. For the entire coming future, the struggle for global hegemony will be fought between the two existing superpowers - China and the United States. The conflict is gradually growing, and since China, by no doubt, will catch up with the United States in terms of GDP by 2020, America will have no choice but to use its still existing military advantage in the form of its own Navy. China carries out 90% of its trade by sea, and this is its strategic vulnerability. If the US Navy blocks the sea, China without oil supplies will be in a disastrous situation. Therefore, and this is inevitable, he will take under control (that is, military) control the land route to Iran’s oil and the Persian Gulf. And for this, China will need to occupy the Central Asian region and Kazakhstan approximately along the line: Lake. Alakol - Balkhash - Aral - Kara-Bogazgol Bay. China will not undertake any expansion against Russia, since, strategically, it needs a calm rear. North of this line, China will not go, and Russia will simply have to take these territories for an elementary purpose: to protect four million Slavs living there.

[Patton5]

Thank you for being Nice to read, a sober look at the prevailing reality.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: cayman

China will not undertake any expansion against Russia, since, strategically, it needs a calm rear.

There is one but.
He won’t be until he reaches a dominant position in the world, and he will try to achieve it without resorting to as long as possible without entering (evading) the armed struggle as long as possible. To preserve his strength to enter the war last.
And if possible, the People's Republic of China to put a bunch of people under arms (by the way, their personnel army is about 10 times bigger than ours in terms of personnel, and taking into account mobilization about 100), then the war on 2 fronts is too powerful for them.
And thereby expanding its borders, ensuring the occupied territories by the population and compensating for its losses with resources from the occupied territories.

China, brothers, an ancient civilization not like Europeans at the root. Tex.
You need to remember this and be alert.

[M. Peter]

Quote: wanderer_032

then they can afford the war on the 2nd front.

No need to fool around. What two fronts, they have sparkling skyscrapers being built, there is the longest high-speed train, but there is also a huge number of people who simply have nothing to feed. What nah a second front, they would first wither. A big crowd, this is usually not an opportunity to put a huge number of soldiers under arms, but a crowd of potentially hungry and embittered people, for the sake of a zhranchik who can turn anyone off. I predict the words of ulcers and izvorot, manage such a herd, supposedly send the hungry to the north, supposedly there will be grub, no one else has succeeded.
The entire industry of China is concentrated in the south, it is quite easy to break it up and at the same time the Strategic Missile Forces will not be obliged to do it, we have a pommo of "poplars" of which is complete and with China it is quite manageable. Destroy the infrastructure and China will return to the Middle Ages pretty quickly.

[Skuto]

Amazing. I think these stories and horror stories hounded in Western Europe, about how hordes of Soviet tanks stand on the Elbe and are just waiting for a signal to attack.
China can make long-range aircraft submarines.
the first destroy the dams, the second sink the fleet, there is no trade, there will be nothing left to fight through a PLA meleum or two.

[go]

Quote: PROXOR

PLA is strong, no doubt. But even they can do little against the Russian partisans. Ask Napoleon and Hitler. China will wash in the blood. Again, skillful command negates the numerical superiority of the enemy. Take, for example, the Arab-Israeli wars and tank breakthroughs of German wedges in the summer of 1941. Do not forget that back in the USSR, from our southern neighbor, a mining system was developed along the borders of nuclear mines. Bookmarks prepared for these mines. Before the PLA tanks can enter the operational space, they will be forced to overcome the tank moat longer than the Wall of China.

Well, yes, skillful command is about the Russian army ... the higher the often less useful, unfortunately ... See how most of our wars began. And about partisans - partisans can fight with a civilized army, the Chinese just cut everything from small to large ... you need to know the Asian mentality - everything is tough, a person is worth nothing there. And people are not the same as before - everyone thinks about themselves. So this is hardly an option.

And there can be only one option - power parity, physical and economic. I didn’t want to fight. Poison. weapons as written here is not a fact that will help if the Chinese have nothing to eat. They will have no choice. A poison. a strike is a retaliatory strike ... in addition, the missile defense system will sooner or later work and they will copy it sooner or later.

[wanderer_032]

Glad to hear a reasonable opinion on this issue.

[Victor Wolz]

A nuclear strike is politics, but Su-34 attack aircraft will carry 10 Chinese tanks at the crossing of the Amur. Only more need them.

[rarik63]

"Well, yes, skilful command is about the Russian army ... the higher, the often less sense, unfortunately ... Look how most of our wars began."

And why not see how all the wars that were waged against us ended! And command learns to command, as it seems to me there are successes. And it’s not so useless as you are painting it for us here.

Quote: go

And there can be only one option - power parity, physical and economic. I didn’t want to fight. Poison. weapons as written here is not a fact that will help if the Chinese have nothing to eat. They will have no choice. A poison. a strike is a retaliatory strike ... in addition, the missile defense system will sooner or later work and they will copy it sooner or later.

And of course there are options, first of all there is no need to panic and catch up with passions, but to work and create these "parity of power, physical and economic." And the leadership, I think, needs to be trusted. If the GDP is not the same, can we call our "TAGGED" from the non-farm or revive BNE?

[go]

Quote: rarik63

And why not see how all the wars that were waged against us ended! And command learns to command, as it seems to me there are successes. And it’s not so useless as you are painting it for us here.

Look at the ratio of losses at the end of these wars - everything is borne by the soldiers, both the junior and the middle staff (I am also not pleased with this, but without realizing the mistakes there is no correction). The command learns to command by paying for it with their lives, which is now. Russia can no longer afford it due to the low birth rate. And they really have to study together with their subordinates in real exercises and other studies. And not sit in their pants or arrange military shows instead of exercises, or even hammer on their work and do "business". I agree, not all, of course, are useless, there are also worthy ones, but you look at the majority and you see that there is little professionalism.

What does the comparison of GDP and BNE have to do with it? Why even compare with the worst - you compare with who is better. And don’t tell me that there’s no one better if they don’t show you in the box. It's like in the DMB about the gopher. Like - it’s bad here, but it’s even worse there in Africa ... you compare with where it’s better. And why not strive for this and work hard in this direction?

Nobody is panicking, but maybe you don’t have to hope either.

And briefly about China - I worked there, I can say that now it is better developed than Russia, which still eats up the remnants of its former luxury, sometimes even from imperial times. And the development trend of China is even more tangible, at least in how and how much they promote engineers and scientists. And how they try to develop the state and really fight corruption. They still lack experience, but it is a matter of time. By the way, they copied everything at one time - Germany, Japan, and Russia. China has a big problem with the environment, but as they said for their mentality, this is not a priority yet.

[Basileus]

WWII 1,3: 1. Huge losses, you say? Napoleon is generally 2,5 times more than ours lost.

[Horst78]

We have one company in Moscow bought a truck crane on a 4-bridge VOLVO, so after moving to the Moscow Ring Road, I got tired of buying traffic from GAI officers, and drove 3 months to Siberia. The Chinese have money and patience on our traffic cops do not have 10000 tanks to drive

[Bongo]

In the Far East, the situation with the GAI officers is even worse, in Moscow, the people are richer, but you can't fight a lot from the Far East, and that's not good. But the Chinese will not tolerate them, just wound on the tracks. But most sometimes you want to transfer to the tank and do this good work.

[Basileus]

The Chinese are masters of painting castles in the air. Undoubtedly, the number of Type-99 in the Chinese army is greater than the T-90 in the Russian, but information about their performance characteristics is contradictory. And all because of the ability to give metered information, hiding the most important.

It was not for nothing that the information passed that the main and most durable ally of China and, concurrently, its main defense client - Pakistan - became interested in the Oplot. China does not offer its modern cars for export even to the most bosom friend, which means there is something to hide there.

[Lindon]

Quote: Basileus

The Chinese are masters of painting castles in the air.

The Chinese are masters? No, these are Russian extras masters to draw castles in the air.
2002 in Russia was home to 34577 Chinese.
In 2010, they became −16,29% less and amounted to 28943 Chinese.
In Moscow alone, the Chinese live more.

[Basileus]

I do not even know where to start. First, find out the meaning of the word extras first. Secondly, how does this relate to the article in general and my comment in particular?

[oe042]

What partisans? What patriotism? Served in 2009-2010 in Ussuriysk in military unit 24776. So, if there was a war, the soldiers first of the fathers-commanders (murderers) will then shoot and shoot for the comrades of colleagues from Tuva and Dagestan.

[Alekseev]

Quote: oe042

if war happened, soldiers first of the fathers-commanders (murderers) then will shoot for fellow colleagues from Tuva and Dagestan

It’s not good that such a service went to a person ...
But why wait for war? If they deserved, then it was necessary now to kill (or at least do something) the "murderers" of chiefs and colleagues from Tuva and Dagestan.
Or do you think that if there is a war, all "hares" will become brave at once?
Or vice versa, about .... and being taken prisoner. They will go to "organs". Nothing will be lost in China.

[hitech]

Quote: oe042

What partisans? What patriotism? Served in 2009-2010 in Ussuriysk in military unit 24776. So, if there was a war, the soldiers first of the fathers-commanders (murderers) will then shoot and shoot for the comrades of colleagues from Tuva and Dagestan.

We call such "soldiers" into the army, what to do, the generation of "Pepsi", morally unstable, offended, raised in greenhouse conditions, torn from mother's "breast", etc. etc.