Military Review

The scandalous vicissitudes of the contract for the supply of BTR-4 in Iraq

37
Ukrainian edition "The mirror of the week. Ukraine"has published a rather interesting article by Dmitri Mendeleev"I remember all my cracks... "dedicated to the scandalous twists and turns of the sensational 2009 contract of the Iraqi side that was now canceled to supply Iraq with 420 BTR-4 armored personnel carriers of Ukrainian production. Recall that before the beginning of 2013, Iraq received only 88 armored personnel carriers from the issuers of the party, who received the same production schedules from the issuers, who received the production schedules from the same year, they received the same numbers, they did have, they managed to get out of them, they could only use the 420 armored transport systems from the issuers, they, they, they, they, will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have, they will have 0, 10 were shipped in April 26 of the year and 2011 - in October 62 of the year), and the third batch of 2012 BTR-42, sent to Iraq 4 on April 26, already eight months dangles in the sea aboard the notorious vessel SE Pacifica. In particular, information is confirmed about the cracks in the armored corps of the BTR-2013, detected on the vehicles of the second batch, delivered in October 4 of the year. About the 2012 BTR-88 already received by Iraq, it is reported that "to date almost 4% of combat vehicles cannot operated according to their technical condition. "




Iraqi military inspect the cracks in the armored hull of an armored personnel carrier BTR-4 delivered to Iraq as part of the second batch of these vehicles in October 2012 of the year (c) Mirror of the Week. Ukraine / gazeta.zn.ua

Almost a year and two months have passed since the date of the last publication on the pages of ZN.UA about the vicissitudes around the so-called Iraqi contract for the supply of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers to the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. It took exactly this time for the General Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine to at least somehow respond to the problematic issues of this transaction and, in conditions of "deep" secrecy, open criminal proceedings on the fact of concluding a foreign economic contract that was obviously unfavorable for Ukraine.

Who took the cashier?

Is the General Prosecutor’s Office able to understand the global lies of both officials and special exporters involved in the catastrophic failure of one of the largest contracts in stories exports weapons from Ukraine?

We must be naive to hope for an objective investigation in such a delicate area as the export of weapons. It's no secret who earns money in Ukraine on these deals! And the question to be studied can only be put in one plane: “How many have not been informed?”.

It is likely that the command to the prosecutors was given only after it became clear that both commission fees and marketing funds, which account for almost a third of the total contract value, flew past the well-known cash desk (data from the minutes of the US court session in San Antonio held last September).

The people who lived on the Iraqi contract are known. Some of them have long left us and warm their mortal bodies on the azure shores of the Mediterranean. Some have returned to their promised land and are promoting Russian-made weapons to foreign markets. Their souls are warmly enough large sums listed on offshore accounts of foreign companies.

For law enforcement agencies, let me remind you the names of these companies: Singaporean UST-Tech Consulting, registered in the British Virgin Islands Hectorian Services, British Lanefield Exports, owned by companies from Belize Milltown Corporate Services and Ireland & Overseas Acquisition. By the way, if anyone remembers the scandal with the supply of Ukrainian armored vehicles to Kenya (and according to our sources in the special services - to South Sudan), connected with the seizure of the Faina ship, then these companies also appeared well there. Ukrainian officials at the time were spreading the legend about the legal supply of weapons to Kenya.

Another part of the commission from the Iraqi contract "swam away" to the delaware company Universal Investment Group (UIG). According to the transcript of the court session I mentioned in the USA, it was from the accounts of this company that the money was transferred to Ukrainian “lobbyists”.

The most "vividly" situation around the Iraqi contract began to develop with the arrival of D. Salamatin, who later became head of the Ukroboronprom concern, to the state-owned Ukrspetsexport company. Having moved to the chair of the Minister of Defense, Dmitry Albertovich did not forget at the same time his closest associate, D.Peregudov, who also had time to fruitfully guide these companies.

The question is still open: why did D. Salamatin suddenly take the sole decision to liquidate the main holder of the contract with Iraq, a subsidiary of Ukrspetsexport of the foreign trade company Progress? After all, it is clear that this event marked the beginning of the disruption of the Ukrainian-Iraqi deal worth 500 million dollars. It was with the arrival of D. Salamatin to the post of head of the main Ukrainian special exporter and his ridiculous steps that the Russian arms barons began actively sensing the possibility of supplying Russian weapons to Iraq. One can only guess what dividends from our Russian "friends" such a figure could get, which led to a fatal deal beneficial to Ukraine.

Come on stall!

Problems with the contract began with the failure of the first delivery of 26 combat vehicles sent by the Iraqi Defense Ministry with an almost six-month delay.

The second batch of armored personnel carriers in the number of 62 units was delivered to the customer one and a half years later - in November of 2012. The victorious reports of D.Peregudov and D.Salamatin himself, who, on the eve of sending this party, diligently informed V. Yanukovych how he “dispelled the clouds over the contract”, and in fact simply “divorced” the president, were very well remembered about this.

In the same way, it was possible to “dissolve” the head of the government, who issued a letter with commitments that guaranteed the fulfillment by the Progress of this foreign economic agreement by the government of Ukraine, as well as the corresponding compensation to the Iraq Defense Ministry in case of its breakdown.

As they say in the "Ukroboronprom", that cracks appeared in the armor of this batch of armored personnel carriers, the company did not say just lazy. I have no doubt that, informing the president about the resolution of problematic issues and receiving a guarantee from the government, would-be heads of state-owned companies knew about the cracks in the armor. Of course, it is necessary to thoroughly investigate the question of which of the officials of Ukroboronprom and Ukrspetsexport, despite the identified defects, instructed to send the batch with defects to the customer.

It is also very interesting how and why the Minister of Defense D. Salamatin signed an order on the adoption of this type of military equipment with numerous defects and flaws in the weapons of the Ukrainian army. By the way, the General Prosecutor's Office, which, as it became recently known from prosecutors, has opened criminal proceedings on the fact of abuse of authority by officials of the Ministry of Defense, has already thought about this.

Did the Iraqi military know that there were cracks in the armor of this batch of equipment? I think they knew, but, quite possibly, they relied on very "weighty arguments."

According to the old Ukrainian tradition, after the arrival of the vehicle at the military base in Taji, the figures from Ukrspecexport were forgotten about the transfer of “weighty arguments” to the interested Iraqi military. It was after this that the Iraqi military began to "actively" identify cracks in the armor (see photo).

Information about problems with armor began to arrive in Ukraine at the end of last year through the Gosexportcontrol, and the special services timidly hinted at the occurrence of problems in the execution of the Iraqi contract.

To date, almost 80% of combat vehicles can not be operated according to their technical condition.

Let me remind you that D.Peregudov almost until his dismissal in July 2013 was diligently patrolling between Kiev and Baghdad, assuring everyone that the Iraqi side was about to sign, whether it had already signed a supplement to extend the contract and agree on a new schedule for the supply of equipment. Why and who needed this lie? There may be several versions, but they all boil down to one thing - to evade responsibility for their actions, which led to the breakdown of a half-billion foreign trade contract.

At the same time, neither the government nor the presidential administration possessed objective information about the deplorable situation related to the fulfillment by Ukraine of its obligations.

As for Ukroboronprom, which, by the way, since June 2012 was already led by S. Gromov, he most likely knew about numerous defects of armor reliably, but he concealed this information.

Undoubtedly, measures to normalize the situation around the Ukrainian-Iraqi contract had to be started last year, and the results would not be so pitiable for the Ukrainian side today.

Naturally, S.Gromov along with D.Salamatinin and D.Peregudov should share responsibility for their irresponsibility.

On the role of S.Gromov in the breakdown of the contract is worth mentioning separately. It is enough to analyze the trips of the head of Ukroboronprom to Iraq. Yes, however, and the analysis is not necessary. Even the number of fingers on one hand looks like a huge number. The recent visit of the Ukrainian delegation headed by Deputy Minister of Defense A. Babenko was especially memorable. As for the valiant deputy minister, so for S.Gromov he is possibly the first and the last. Probably, the head of Ukroboronprom did not understand that he had to spend the night and spend the night in Iraq. And rush to the American mediator, who was "thrown" by Salamatin and Peregudov, and at least try to persuade him to cooperate.

But even during this visit, the Ukrainian delegation managed to distinguish itself. Representatives of Ukraine "amicably" waved to Iraq during the Muslim holiday of the whole world Kurban Bayram. Such a dense incompetence of the leadership of the largest company in the field of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine is evidence of professional unsuitability and not otherwise.

Naturally, the results of this blitz visit tend to zero. But if S.Gromov’s tour can somehow be justified, then what Deputy P.Lebedeva Arturo Francisco was doing in Iraq is not at all understandable. Is that the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense wants to share responsibility for the failure of the contract with "Ukroboronprom".

The situation is even worse today with the delivery to Iraq of a third batch of 40 armored personnel carriers, dangling from neutral ships from the port of Um Qasr since February of this year. Ukroboronprom is held hostage by the Singapore ship SE PACIFICA and its crew, abandoned, in fact, to the mercy of fate. Ukrspetsexport, which has chartered a ship, will cost it in a simple way, one can only guess. The only thing is that neither S.Gromov nor his associates pay this money from their own pocket, but in vain!
Moreover, the hotheads in Ukroboronprom thought in a peculiar way to solve the problem - to transfer military equipment to another ship directly in the open sea. Fair wind!

"Seasickness" greatly influenced the state of armored vehicles. All the tires have fallen into disrepair, the batteries have long been oxidized, the hull has become rusty. To restore this technique will need a lot of money. Only according to approximate estimates, without taking into account the repair of buildings, the restoration of this batch of equipment can result in additional costs ranging from 20 to 30% of its cost.

What to do?

The fact that the Ukrainian-Iraqi contract is broken is an open secret. The weekly informed the readers about it last summer. UkrSpetsExport and Ukroboronprom knew about this, but for what purpose did the president and the government misinform?

Moreover, the Ukrainian Embassy in Iraq, however, was very late, but still informed the Prime Minister that Acting Minister of Defense S.Al-Duleimi asks N. Azarov, taking into account the guarantee letter of the government, to personally intervene with the performance of the contract. He points to the lack of progress in negotiations with the leadership of the Ukrainian special exporter regarding the resolution of problematic issues and requests that direct orders from the Ukrspetsexport House of Culture stop the implementation of the current contract, limiting it to the number of equipment already supplied by the Iraqi Ministry of Defense.

Nevertheless, it should be noted the tolerant position of the Iraqi side, which so far refrains from filing a claim to the Arbitration Court of the City of Geneva in Switzerland, which is stipulated by the foreign economic agreement. This allows us to hope that the failure of the Ukroboronprom enterprises to fulfill their contractual obligations will not have a very negative impact on Ukrainian-Iraqi relations.
The best option for our country would be the opportunity to continue to supply military equipment to Iraq, but for this we need to solve the problem of repairing defective armor. And if our repair teams cannot do this on the spot, we must return the equipment to Ukraine and replace the cracked hulls.

The question in this case is only one: what is the cost part? The fact that these funds are estimated in millions of dollars, no one expert doubts. And the most important thing is that the entire cost part will be compensated not at the expense of Ukroboronprom and its enterprises, but at the expense of ordinary taxpayers. This is how the question is posed not only in the concern, but even by people's deputies who believe that the state should fulfill the obligations of our weapon-unfortunate merchants.

As they say in Ukroboronprom, repair of armored personnel carriers by Ukrainian specialists directly in Iraq could amount to almost $ 9 million. If, on the other hand, the entire batch is returned and the cases are replaced and repaired under factory conditions, this amount can be tripled and amount to 25 – 27 million dollars.

At the initiative of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense at the end of October this year. A meeting was held with the leadership of the concern "Ukroboronprom" and the state enterprise "Plant them. Malyshev."

The deputies were so “razduharilas” that they began to criticize the “government structures” that did not fulfill the instructions of the president and the prime minister “regarding the improvement of the functioning and organization of the management of the defense industries”. At the same time, they somehow forgot that for this, by presidential decree, some surrogate management education was created in the military-industrial complex, which bears full responsibility for the critical state of foreign economic contracts, the crisis of defense enterprises, non-payment of salaries.

I was even more pleased with the appeal of one of the people's deputies to N. Azarov, where it was emphasized that the working capital was actually washed at the enterprises of Ukroboronprom (text on the website). It is a pity that the representatives of the legislative body did not ask S. Gromov: where did these very circulating assets go? Or, for example, why is it necessary for months to coordinate this issue with the concern's apparatus for the purchase of even toilet paper at enterprises? Or why the public procurement sphere has become a very profitable business for the security department of Ukroboronprom? Why do you need to buy components from companies and firms that are strongly recommended by the concern?

Against the background of triumphant reports by Ukroboronprom in the press about improving the performance of the concern’s enterprises, including extraordinary achievements in arms exports, the information about the catastrophic situation with foreign economic contracts, made public during the above-mentioned meeting with people's deputies, is puzzling. So maybe it’s not at all necessary for the government to issue state guarantees to the concern to finance export deliveries? All the more, probably, there is no need to provide financial assistance to defense enterprises?

By the way, "Ukroboronprom" requires the provision of such guarantees in the amount of 1,7 billion UAH in the current year. At the same time, the situation with the break of the export contract with Iraq is somehow silent. Or should the government also issue guarantees for the implementation of a broken contract?

It is a pity that so far no one has figured out who gets royalties for using the brand of armor for the manufacture of these armored personnel carriers.

And why did nobody ask S.Gromov: how much of the Iraqi Defense Ministry’s advance payment was “rolled back” to intermediaries? This amount would be enough to organize the replacement of most of the defective corps of armored personnel carriers delivered to Iraq.
A series of similar questions can be continued. Be sure to ask about the commission special exporters. And about the "successful" marketing, which is written off millions, which can be infused in the organization of production, and in improving the situation in enterprises. Maybe the deputies are not looking there?

About marketing and commission

Amazing metamorphosis takes place in the heads of the People’s Deputies, who, demanding financial support from the state, are absolutely not interested in the leaders of Ukroboronprom regarding who earns millions from arms sales.

A vivid illustration can be the sending to Libya of a ship with a weapon detained by the Greek coast guard as a company-member of the Ukrinmash concern. By the way, this delivery Ukrinmash realized with the help of the Turkish intermediary company.

As a result of this brilliant transaction by the Ministry of Defense, which transferred weapons to Ukrinmash for sale on the foreign market, from one of the supplies should receive almost 40 million UAH, but the persons involved in this transaction planned to receive "vershoks" in the amount of about 140 million UAH. In this situation, even the chief auditor of the Ministry of Defense Maxim Goldarb resigned, because he did not notice such a disproportion in earnings.

How such an amount of “earnings” of the mediators from the Ministry of Defense was agreed upon, it became clear in the course of a small study of this issue. It turns out that "Ukrinmash" today is headed by a certain S. Khosh, while in the Ministry of Defense, the position of adviser to the minister is held by a certain D. Khosh. At the same time, the latter, although it did not sign the contract with Ukrinmash, was even very aware of what was happening. In actual fact, it turned out that there is a blood connection between these two gentlemen.

Only here is one bad luck. The Libyan ship, detained by the Greek coast guard, suddenly suddenly sank off the Greek coast. I don’t even know if the Greeks managed to unload to the shore the armaments and armaments they had arrested, which they had declared smuggling. What will happen with this cargo is clear - it will be confiscated by Greece. The affected party in this transaction will be only Libyan merchants.

The experience of M.Goldarb did not help in revealing the corruption component in yet another contract of the Ministry of Defense with the enterprise-participant of the DP Ukroboronservis concern. In this contract, the price of ammunition is almost doubled. That is, if it is possible to get about 32 million USD, the Ministry of Defense will receive only 18 million. Who will share the rest? And this question is not the most interesting. It turns out that on the part of Ukroboronservice, this unprofitable contract for the Ministry of Defense was signed by one R. Babenko. Surname says nothing? Indeed, the name of the signatory coincides surprisingly with the name of one of the deputy secretaries of defense.

Such a family contract, it turns out, exists in the field of arms trade!

I deliberately cited these examples for gentlemen who are concerned about finding finance to support the defense industry. Virtually all transactions carried out in this area are with such a “flavor”.

Maybe you need to restrain your appetites and send illegally earned funds to the development of the defense industry and the army?
Author:
Originator:
http://gazeta.zn.ua/
37 comments
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  1. La-5
    La-5 17 December 2013 08: 31
    +1
    The arms market has long been divided by giants and will not be allowed to launch a new competitor.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 17 December 2013 11: 20
      10
      As always, the Katsyp are to blame for all the troubles of the glorious Ukrainian people

      The author blames the Russian side for all the troubles, they say they put their little man and everything fell apart :) and what the project was, but they ruined so chtol

      Interestingly, are we also to blame for the cracks? Probably our low-quality metal

      PS, yes, it turns out the contract was broken last year, but we were assured all this year that everything was fine and that we were inflating something.
      1. Ivan Mechanic
        Ivan Mechanic 17 December 2013 13: 00
        +5
        And who else but us could be to blame? Well, not the gay men, with the Americans! Those, after all, look at this and democratically put the author on the Magnitsky list, tolerate abduct and torture in a civilized way! :-)))
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 17 December 2013 13: 18
          +1
          Ivan Mechanic And who else but us could be to blame? Well, not the gay men, with the Americans! Those, after all, look at this and democratically put the author on the Magnitsky list, tolerate abduct and torture in a civilized way! :-)))


          Of course, they are the work of gremlins from the Kremlin repeat


          here is a good discussion on this issue http://bmpd.livejournal.com/688960.html#comments
        2. AVV
          AVV 18 December 2013 00: 05
          -2
          A bad dancer always has something interfering !!! Therefore, in the geyrop, where Ukraine is being dragged !!! With this, something is a big problem !!! And without this, and in the field of defense such transactions are obtained !!! That's the secret, with the last deliveries of weapons over the hill !!!
  2. makarov
    makarov 17 December 2013 09: 20
    19
    ".. It's not a secret for anyone who makes money in Ukraine on these deals! .."

    SW Author!
    For me personally, a secret. What are the names and positions of the so-called. "namesake" of the Russian Serdyukov. Since the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office got lost in three pines. speak with eyesight "not that .."
    1. sapran
      sapran 17 December 2013 11: 46
      +6
      In the mirror of the week mmmm really love the sensations - this is normal.
      But only the best undertakers under this contract "S. Gromov together with D. Salamatin and D. Peregudov" Actually, almost throughout the military-industrial complex.
      Mr. Salamatin should be invited for tea with crackers, because after his revisions of R&D, the results are covered, some obscure "raider" raids on enterprises that received an order from Ukroboronexport.
      And over the cracks - Photoshop for a sensation. If they did take place, then their appearance is somewhat different (the author of the "photo" -sensation needs to look through the reference book on materials alone or a collage on damaged equipment in Afghanistan, there are variants of cracks on a thin armored personnel carrier armor)
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 17 December 2013 13: 14
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      Since the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office got lost in three pines. speak with eyesight "not that .."

      So our prosecutor's office and the TFR "got lost" in the Serdyukov case. And our eyesight has something "wrong" ...
  3. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 17 December 2013 09: 21
    +3
    Yeah. So disgrace your homeland for the sake of fat sham in your pocket ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 17 December 2013 12: 04
      +2
      Yun Klob RU
      Yeah. So disgrace your homeland for the sake of fat sham in your pocket ...


      No, it’s all forgiving. It’s just that in due time it was necessary not to powder everyone’s brains (especially to their hands)don't blame Moscow for ordering(they love it in Ukraine)

      -Do not throw American friends (intermediaries) who have broken this contract
      - cracks and problems appeared last year, with the advent of the second batch - then it was necessary to solve all problems and organize operational repairs and let go to replace defective buildings

      and if all this had been done that year, there would not have been such sad consequences as now, and this:

      - the contract on the initiative of the Iraqi side is broken
      third party hanging out on a ship since February 2013, feeding between Dubai and the Indian Ocean

      PS, that's why I always say that the buyer of weapons always wants, except for the systems themselves:

      competent logistics, spare parts supply and timely repair
      -Our (Russian gunsmiths) also sometimes forget about these things, then the problems begin

      and we recently delivered the first 4 new MI-35M
      I’m certainly waiting for the new MI-28NE, as everyone knows, Iraq has ordered 36 units, and they will already be with an airborne radar (which is not yet in the Russian Air Force)

      video is also the presentation of the new MI-35M in December 2013
  4. svp67
    svp67 17 December 2013 09: 22
    +1
    But SUCH cracks, as in the photo they say about the BAD QUALITY of the armor, it is not viscous ... Again Mariupol "screwed up ..." In short, this is an EXPRESS MARRIAGE and the Iraqis are right ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 December 2013 11: 33
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      In short, this is an Explicit Marriage and the Iraqis are right ...

      I’ll tell you that this is Photoshop, and experts, even more so.
      1. Rebus
        Rebus 17 December 2013 12: 08
        +1
        Quote: Akim

        I will tell you that this is Photoshop

        I agree, Photoshop or the shadow falls. The cracks have a clear outline, but here it’s somehow smeared ....
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 December 2013 12: 24
          +6
          This is a snapshot, hit the net not today. He has been walking her since September. But a single shot is not proof. Need pictures and from other angles.
          In general, an anti-campaign against Iraq’s Ukrainian armored vehicles is currently underway in Iraq. The quality of the planes satisfies them, although there were also minor problems on the spot from the summer, but the Antonov specialists adjusted everything.
          The BTR-4 stands, along with the BTR-80 not armed with the 36th brigade. This does not suit Americans who want to transfer the entire 9th division to their equipment.
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 17 December 2013 12: 31
            +2
            Akim

            This does not suit Americans who want to transfer the entire 9th division to their equipment.


            Well are you lying? The Americans themselves lobbied for this contract for you, and you flunked it along the way by throwing your American intermediaries

            the question is, what will your gunsmiths do with the third batch of BTR-4, which since February runs from the Indian Ocean to Dubai, give Syria a present, even if they fight
            1. Akim
              Akim 17 December 2013 13: 10
              +6
              Quote: Rustam
              the question is, what will your gunsmiths do with the third batch of BTR-4, which since February runs from the Indian Ocean to Dubai

              I don’t know what will be done to her. I am not a member of Ukroboronprom. And the fact that the Americans lobbied, so the situation was different. We have Yush, they have Bush. In the world then there was no this general tuhles. Americans are rapidly changing this policy. Previously, Yanyk - a friend, now walks under the threat of their sanctions. And if you do not believe it, you should not spit saliva, but take the trouble and search in Neta (I suppose they didn’t even know before that there was a 9th division in Iraq).
              1. Rustam
                Rustam 17 December 2013 13: 22
                0
                Did you read the text? Russia and their arms lobby with their own people are to blame. And if it weren’t for all of them, they would be out of place


                You know, it’s already tired of something — for some of your leaders, we have been interfering for 20 years to follow the bright path of democracy


                p / s - I would let you go to the EU (in the dream of Westerners) and would not invite to the customs union, blocking all borders

                but the fact that you don’t do it, all the same, we are to blame
                1. Akim
                  Akim 17 December 2013 14: 02
                  +2
                  Quote: Rustam
                  but the fact that you don’t do it, all the same, we are to blame

                  In the text, the author of the article expresses his idea, and in the comments we correct it.
              2. Chaplain
                Chaplain 18 December 2013 02: 27
                0
                I respect Akim, skillfully, right on a bend, cuts off the "eagles" of commentators.
                About the supply of equipment to Iraq, it was immediately clear that the matter was somehow muddy, both quantity and price.
                Although it is a pity that this happens with the BTRmi (or it turned out), I wanted to see a new technique in action. I hope that the Slavs will come up with something to read, the head of tea is not only a hat to wear.
  5. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 17 December 2013 09: 30
    +2
    What rottenness, damn it! .. And in relation to the armor itself, and in relation to all the "dances" around it ...
  6. Silent
    Silent 17 December 2013 10: 03
    -1
    The arms supply market is always challenging. Here is global politics and economics, and the simplest corruption of customers, manufacturers, suppliers. All the main schemes of theft for supplies to the army were invented in ancient Rome. The main problem is that after such "cracks" no one will need Ukrainian weapons at all.
  7. 31231
    31231 17 December 2013 10: 23
    +1
    I hope this does not happen with the Oploti.
  8. kind
    kind 17 December 2013 10: 43
    +1
    And where was the military acceptance? Or is it not at Ukrainian military factories?
  9. pensioner
    pensioner 17 December 2013 11: 18
    +1
    I saw all sorts of cracks in my life, but SUCH the first time ... I can’t even immediately imagine: what is the reason for their formation ... That something is not so clear with the metal ... But that’s so .. . Interesting, and what steel brand goes there on the APC. Not from the series something like 35HGS by chance? And yet ... And how did these APCs go through ??
    1. sapran
      sapran 17 December 2013 11: 54
      +3
      No way (we take a photo from the Iraqi armored personnel carriers that are in place and draw a "crack") The receivers who were received at the plant from the Iraqi side were dressed in "civilian clothes", but here they were not unloaded in the uniform on the site of the armored personnel carriers of this batch "Throwing" Salamatin the mediator, the team was not to take them in the port and no one landed on board, or do you think that the Indian border is in the photo?
      The "Ladya" armored personnel carrier is not devoid of shortcomings, but their character is in a slightly different way ...
      1. GastaClaus69
        GastaClaus69 17 December 2013 12: 12
        +1
        There are not so many BTR-4 photos from Iraq on the network, and considering that the cracks were announced back in 2012, it’s a little strange to see it already on the eve of 2014! Maybe the Iraqis sent a photograph and cracks equestrian feasible?
        And remember this photo, because many people also believed then.
        1. gych
          gych 17 December 2013 22: 38
          +1
          you're right about something
      2. Rustam
        Rustam 17 December 2013 12: 24
        +2
        sapran

        The receivers who received at the factory from Iraq



        The final acceptance and signing of all documents takes place not at the factory, but at the end customer after delivery of the products and the first tests!

        it’s only with you, as I understand it, in Ukraine, acceptance and signing of all documents is carried out at the manufacturer’s factory, for example, with us, signing of all documents and acceptance is carried out upon stay and testing on site (at the customer)!

        look at the video on the MI-35M in Iraq look-5 m 32sec-final signing of acceptance documents 4 rex new MI-35M

        HERE THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL IN THE PHOTO
        1. sapran
          sapran 17 December 2013 12: 48
          0
          YES? It’s strange. So how exactly do we act and act with Syria, Pakistan, Thailand and Azerbaijan ... Did you transmit the equipment or only in words from the press?
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 17 December 2013 13: 12
            +3
            YES? It’s strange. Since we are doing exactly the same and have been doing to Syria


            Firstly, this is how it will be drawn in the contract (delivery at the expense of the customer), here Rosvertol has the final signing on the spot like the others

            I told you the above sign at the factory, let's say they signed with you (let's say) further during transportation and shipment, cracks began to appear in the body-where is the warranty and so on?

            Naturally, the corntract is torn with you and sit cuckoo -oblaming the Russian arms lobby in all troubles.
        2. igor67
          igor67 17 December 2013 15: 30
          -1
          Quote: Rustam
          sapran

          The receivers who received at the factory from Iraq



          The final acceptance and signing of all documents takes place not at the factory, but at the end customer after delivery of the products and the first tests!

          it’s only with you, as I understand it, in Ukraine, acceptance and signing of all documents is carried out at the manufacturer’s factory, for example, with us, signing of all documents and acceptance is carried out upon stay and testing on site (at the customer)!

          look at the video on the MI-35M in Iraq look-5 m 32sec-final signing of acceptance documents 4 rex new MI-35M

          HERE THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL IN THE PHOTO

          Do you think it’s correct to compare a car that has been riveted for 40 years and a new product, 24ka or 35 m now, do not differ much, they do not differ in glider, but the fact that they were cheaper due to the fact that half of the hydraulics were removed and the landing gears are not removed is my opinion minus, it’s clear now the racks are probably probably twice as easy, but in case of damage to the racks, how to sit down?
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 17 December 2013 16: 20
            +3
            igor67
            Do you think it’s correct to compare a machine that has been riveted for 40 years and a new product,


            Why don’t I understand you? And here is 24 and mi-35m? and their properties?

            We are talking about the signing of an act of acceptance of products. And then some comrades from a certain country talk about acceptance by the customer only at the manufacturer. And I say that it’s not always dependent on the contract. For example, the re-drill is signed by the customer
            1. igor67
              igor67 17 December 2013 16: 30
              -1
              Quote: Rustam
              igor67
              Do you think it’s correct to compare a machine that has been riveted for 40 years and a new product,


              Why don’t I understand you? And here is 24 and mi-35m? and their properties?

              We are talking about the signing of an act of acceptance of products. And then some comrades from a certain country talk about acceptance by the customer only at the manufacturer. And I say that it’s not always dependent on the contract. For example, the re-drill is signed by the customer

              Rosvert can afford it, financially, I am also a former resident of a certain country, and the 35th turntables were handed over to customers on the spot, maybe all the same because the machines are exported unassembled, they are assembled on the spot by the mining brigade and only then rent out
            2. sapran
              sapran 17 December 2013 16: 32
              +1
              please do not twist my words. I indicated that the initial acceptance at the plant was completed, but the final one did not take place as the cargo was not allowed to the port
        3. gych
          gych 17 December 2013 22: 40
          -1
          Are you so confident in claiming that it was you who carried out the acceptance ?!
          1. sapran
            sapran 18 December 2013 00: 11
            +1
            No Iraqi armored personnel carrier, only Syrian T-54 would this answer suit you?
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 17 December 2013 12: 39
      +4
      The cracks look unnatural somehow ... I think that photoshop is really. In the photo, the crack opening can be estimated in millimeters ... This does not happen. Unless, of course, the shell did not fly into the armored plate ...
    3. svp67
      svp67 18 December 2013 00: 19
      +4
      Quote: retired
      I saw all sorts of cracks in my life, but SUCH the first time ... I can’t even immediately imagine: what is the reason for their formation ... That something is not so clear with the metal ... But that’s so .. . Interesting, and what steel brand goes there on the APC. Not from the series something like 35HGS by chance? And yet ... And how did these APCs go through ??

      Here is the information from the UKRAINIAN website
      1. BTR-4E are delivered under a contract between the Iraqis and the Morozov HCBM. Malysheva supplies only some parts (engine, wheel gearboxes, torsion bars, and even any small things such as fittings) and makes assembly and running-in of assembled armored personnel carriers. He gets three pennies for it. They told me that for every BTR-4E collected, Malysheva receives about 30 thousand hryvnias (about 4 thousand dollars)!
      2. BTR-4 has a body welded from scratch. The old corps of the BTR-80 for the production of "new" BTR-3 is the case of the late nineties. About 50 hulls were reworked for either Libya or Jordan.
      3. Cook the body of the BTR-4 in the city of Lozova. This is such a town in the very south of Kharkov region. 200 kilometers from Kharkov. In combination, a very large railway node. There used to be a factory that made cases for MT-LB, which were produced at the special assembly of KhTZ. The Malyshev factory, due to squabbles between the factory management and their Kiev curators (the so-called gang of Vitalik the Unmerciful) and the KGBMovtsy, has nothing to do with the manufacture of cases.
      4. Problems with the quality of the cases were constant initially. The fact is that the owner of the plant by the name of Hirschfeld is a pathological shred and himself a very unpleasant person about whom everyone speaks sharply negatively. According to the technology, welding of the armor should be carried out at a temperature above +5 degrees and after welding the whole body should be vacationed. This is a very energy intensive operation. Plus the complete absence of technologists in a remote village. For those who wanted to go to work in Lozova for a tiny salary to such a ghoul like Hirschfeld - were not found. In general, the first buildings generally burst in half. When Malysheva began to receive these masterpieces of welding art, the factory cursed and, in the course of swearing, explained to the people of Lozovo how to cook their bodies in general and the situation seemed to be getting better.
      What happened next - I don't know. Apparently because of the tiny salary (they said that welders were paid as much as 1300 hryvnias there) and all the grandfathers (you can google photos of this "production" live) who else worked there brought Lozova to work in the cold.
      Now it’s kind of how the welding of cases is being established in Nikolaev at the 61 Communards Plant - http://sdelanounas.in.ua/blogs/36633/
      5. No one tempers the armor of an armored personnel carrier. The housing is released to relieve stress after welding.
      6. The Malyshev Plant also has nothing to do with automatic cannons and "combat modules" - the former are made in Kamenets-Podolsk, the latter are somewhere in Kiev, and they were assembled in shop 190 of the KMDB.

      http://kanchukov-sa.livejournal.com/1471382.html
      1. Kars
        Kars 18 December 2013 01: 35
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Here is the information from the UKRAINIAN website

        )) is this the official website of WHO? Is he responsible for his information?

        And in fact, how much money is the third question. And the first is a crack in the photoshop. There are no official statements about the cracks. If there were problems with a gun that was not produced in the territory of Ukraine under the USSR, it was officially announced about them and also eliminated.


        P.S. I left a message there in the subject where the photos of the IS-7 model were not seen?
      2. pensioner
        pensioner 18 December 2013 05: 20
        0
        Thank! If this is the case, then it is quite possible ... I just could not imagine that everything at the military plant with welding technology could be neglected. Itself worked at a similar plant ... The stresses in the welded product in violation of the welding technology can really arise enormous. I saw it as a pipe with a diameter of 1420 mm. (Wall thickness 16 mm.) For welding tore. More precisely, next to the circular seam ... I take my words back. hi
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 18 December 2013 12: 23
        0
        Quote: svp67
        Here is the information from the UKRAINIAN website

        Hello to the tankmen! hi
        Here some "want" only officially, with full exposure and responsibility!
        As if the official had never scrolled on ..., the whole herd ... laughing
        And the problems described by you do not have 100%.
        Why? For the same reasons that periodically there are Maidans in Kiev.
        If you need details, it’s better not to spoil your eyes while traveling on the waves of the Internet, but to go to the glorious city of Kharkov and talk with the guys from ZIM or 115th.
        There will be a full exposure of magic and insight.
  10. Grbear
    Grbear 17 December 2013 11: 21
    +1
    In the army, this is called a crossbow, and in this case, a crossbow to the head. The only competitive industry received the dirtiest ads. Now, God forbid, "wash". And hard workers will suffer, although they knew what they were doing. The level of patriotism is off the charts. And retribution, especially in this market, is inevitable.
  11. GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 17 December 2013 11: 50
    +2
    A strange photograph: in such a place, such a crack doesn’t really look like, and the Iraqi officers do not show at it, but somewhere to the right, at another crack? Well, if there is a second crack, then all these approximations are asked for hell and attention is focused on this one. Maybe there are some defects on which the officer shows, but they are not very indicative, so they decided to play a prank.
    1. _CAMOBAP_
      _CAMOBAP_ 17 December 2013 14: 24
      +2
      Yes, it's not about cracks - whether they are or not, let the customer and the manufacturer figure it out. The point is different - in the arms market, reputation losses come around faster and harder than in any other market due to its limited number of players and the highest competition. Since the level of discussion of these "cracks" has entered the public space, this is definitely a "joint" and a stain on the reputation, which is very difficult to get rid of. And given the general state of the Ukrainian economy and politics - as they say, "only this was not enough" ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 17 December 2013 14: 32
        +4
        Quote: _CAMOBAP_
        Since the level of discussion of these "cracks" has entered the public space, this is definitely a "joint" and a stain on the reputation, which is very difficult to get rid of.

        "Public" discussion takes place only in Russian-language forums. It's like Maidan - all of Ukraine fellow
        I understand that Russian respondents will be indignant at injustice, but Stryker, in general, was stuck in the ass.
        http://www.army-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-best-armoured-personne
        l-carriers-4142101 /
        1. Lesnik
          Lesnik 18 December 2013 19: 40
          0
          Kim Link Broken sad
        2. _CAMOBAP_
          _CAMOBAP_ 19 December 2013 16: 59
          0
          I am plagued by vague doubts that you have studied the Iraqi forums. Or, for example, Chinese. And - again - I personally did not discuss either the quality of the armor or the quality of the armored personnel carrier in general. If for you the discussion of "oddities" in this transaction ONLY on Russian-language forums is an insignificant thing, then I will not dissuade you.
  12. USNik
    USNik 17 December 2013 12: 59
    +2
    The scandalous vicissitudes of the contract for the supply of BTR-4 in Iraq
    These are still flowers, the berries will start when Thailand gets the first five Strongholds-T, I look forward to receiving it. Of course, I would like to be convinced of the deplorable state of affairs at the Malyshev Kharkov Plant, described in the article by reference, but my heart feels that everything is so ...
    http://ahtungtank.blogspot.ru/2013/08/blog-post_1.html
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 17 December 2013 13: 15
      0
      USNik look forward to receiving


      Are you strongholds already taken by the Thai winked and then let them understand
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 17 December 2013 13: 41
      +1
      Quote: USNik
      Of course, I would like to be convinced of the deplorable state of affairs at the Malyshev Kharkov Plant,

      But how to maintain high-tech production if orders are very small? Opportunities to contain many costly technological processes (and specialists too) no?
      This is only one well-known "tanker" who thinks that "clever marketing" can help in this case.
      Powerful and efficient high-tech industries can exist only in similar states.
      Otherwise, it will not be the above-mentioned production, but cheating, scams, resale of old for new, scandals like the one described in the article and other, as Makar Nagulnov said, "similar syphilis." yes
  13. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 17 December 2013 13: 31
    +5
    A brief retelling of the article - "The invisible hand of Moscow broke the armor of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers."
  14. sapran
    sapran 17 December 2013 15: 56
    +1
    From the very first attempts to enter the arms market, there is a hidden squabble and "black PR" there are no friends and it is pointless to look for companions just as much as it is beneficial to both sides. So the situation is quite standard and belongs to the level "without a sucker, life is boring!"
    If the superiors still have no idea that there are no "trifles" and "old acquaintances" in such matters. There is a prescribed contract that is not verified by a girl from Misha and a boy from Pasha, but by an international legal company that ate its teeth on this ... And they will throw it regularly because there is nothing to be a sucker ...
  15. xomaNN
    xomaNN 17 December 2013 16: 23
    0
    And they steal along the whole chain, and they like to let dust in the eyes of customers. Surely the full cycle of the BTR-4 tests was not carried out - long and expensive winked So even for third-rate armies, the technique is bad.
    1. Lesnik
      Lesnik 17 December 2013 22: 03
      -1
      A full cycle was carried out !! And the commission's comments were .... and then "normal rollback" and everyone is happy laughing
      1. Lesnik
        Lesnik 21 January 2014 20: 55
        0
        what is the minus? Or didn’t get into the distribution of the rollback?
        so at not I distributed it laughing
        and I know the topic and how acceptance certificates corresponded I also know
  16. voliador
    voliador 17 December 2013 18: 57
    +1
    Well, as always, the "swears" are to blame for everything laughing .
  17. Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 17 December 2013 19: 18
    +1
    Problems with the contract began with the failure of the first delivery of 26 combat vehicles sent by the Iraqi Defense Ministry with an almost six-month delay.
    The second batch of armored personnel carriers in the amount of 62 units was delivered to the customer a year and a half later - in November 2012 ........

    I think that if the order were completed on time, then these APCs would have been rolling around Iraq, and they would have received the money for the contract a long time ago. In the meantime, they pulled the cat by the tail, the political situation has changed - that Ukraine has a tainted reputation with the loss of money. Moreover, bearing in mind these cracks, potential clientele will be lost.
  18. bublic82009
    bublic82009 17 December 2013 21: 43
    0
    the "hand of Moscow" is visible in everything. and Iraq is controlled by a coalition led by the United States. maybe where the dog rummaged?
  19. Lesnik
    Lesnik 17 December 2013 21: 48
    +1
    If anyone is interested where the dog rummaged then you here
    http://gazeta.zn.ua/internal/ya-pomnyu-vse-tvoi-treschinki-_.html
    And in a nutshell, I will quote the report of the artilleryman - "normal rollback" laughing
  20. Cristall
    Cristall 18 December 2013 04: 36
    +1
    The akim is right, the article is just an opinion with a photo of not even thought out photoshop. No officers.
    Again, the author's opinion was pulled on the general trend of "the Kremlin's hands" and again "Ukrainians blame the Russians"
    In general, we are competitors in the market, to be honest, I have not seen competitors' friendliness anywhere. I do not want to say that from this fact something changes in relation to the Russian people (and it should not change), and so competition is a fact. It is important that for some people on the basis of competition brains did not go, transferring the conflict to everyday relations.
    Well, yes, the military-industrial complex of Ukraine is still living, it’s bad that everyone wants short-term profit, and the main funds can’t give it. In addition, a new product, sometimes heroically you need to do everything yourself. In pretty terrible conditions. And what they do is already worthy of respect. Not thanks, but against all odds.
  21. REZMovec
    REZMovec 18 December 2013 21: 09
    +1
    quote
    Quote: sapran
    And over the cracks - Photoshop for a sensation. If they did take place, then their appearance is somewhat different (the author of the "photo" -sensation needs to look through the reference book on materials alone or a collage on damaged equipment in Afghanistan, there are variants of cracks on a thin armored personnel carrier armor)



    Exactly. To the very point. The study of metal would not hurt some ...
    1. sapran
      sapran 18 December 2013 23: 27
      0
      Thanks for the advice. Be sure to carry out a re-certification of materials science and compromising materials for one more basis of designing in mechanical engineering.