What remains of the former military power of Ukraine

301
What remains of the former military power of Ukraine


After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine received a magnificent army - three very strong military districts of the second strategic echelon and three air armies (not counting the powerful arsenal of strategic nuclear forces), the total number is about 800 thousand people. The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. In count tanks (more than 6100) and combat aircraft (more than 1100) Ukraine occupied the 4th place in the world after the USA, Russia and China.

How Ukraine lost the Soviet legacy

Now almost everyone has forgotten how many horror stories about the possible war between Russia and Ukraine were in the Russian media of the beginning of 1990's. But in the event of such a war, the army of Ukraine would have a significant superiority over the Russian Armed Forces in the European part of the country: Russia got mostly weak third-tier districts with cropped divisions and outdated equipment, as well as groups of troops "hovering" in Eastern Europe, randomly displayed in clean field.

Even after Washington and Moscow forced Kiev to abandon nuclear weapons, it almost did not change anything: the starting conditions for military construction in Ukraine were simply luxurious, definitely the best among all countries of the former USSR. Especially in view of the most powerful personnel potential and highly developed military industrial complex. Ukraine received at least 700 military enterprises, having the ability to produce almost any equipment. In particular, it turned out to be a monopolist in the post-Soviet space for the production of heavy liquid intercontinental and space rockets, aircraft carriers, heavy military transport aircraft, helicopter engines.

Two post-Soviet decades, Ukraine used, to put it mildly, not in the best way. According to such a major economic indicator, as GDP per capita, Ukraine among the 15 countries of the former USSR moved from second place in 1992 to ninth place in 2011. In terms of growth of this indicator, it was among them in the last, 15, place. The population of the country during this time decreased by 7 million people. Military construction quite fit into the general trend.

We will not take the hopeless Moldavia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and the Baltic countries, which to this day have purely symbolic Armed Forces. They had no starting conditions or resources for anything else. The Baltic countries are also under the formal protection of NATO (it is formal, but it creates the illusion of security). All the other post-Soviet armies gradually entered the path of progressive development (of course, each country has its own), some of them were able to create high-quality armies. Only the Armed Forces of Ukraine remained in a state of chaotic degradation, from which all countries of the former USSR began. As a result, as well as in the economy, having the best starting conditions in the former country, Ukraine today received the worst result.

Sale of "surplus"

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have gone through some structural changes. The Carpathian, Odessa and Kiev military districts became the Western and Southern operational command and territorial control "North". Divisions have become brigades, of which there are now 17 (two tank, eight mechanized, one airborne, two airmobile, one rocket and three artillery). There are also over 20 regiments, including three special forces regiments.

According to official data of the CFE Treaty on January 1 2013, Ukraine had 2311 tanks, 3782 armored vehicles, 3101 artillery systems, 507 combat aircraft, 121 attack helicopter. That is, the abbreviations for 20 years turned out to be very large, 2 — 3 are multiples. At the same time, these figures are purely formal - at best, half of the equipment registered in the Ukrainian Armed Forces is combat-ready.

The numerous disappeared machinery is either rotten or sold out. During the post-Soviet period (1992 — 2012), Ukraine became one of the world's leading exporters of weapons. During this time, 285 tanks and 430 BTRs were produced by Ukrainian enterprises for export deliveries (there are orders for another 50 tanks and a couple of hundred BTRs). But from the presence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces for the same years, the 1162 tank, 1221 BBM (BRDM, BMP, BTR), 529 artillery systems, 134 combat aircraft, 112 combat helicopters, a significant amount of air defense weapons were sold abroad.

That is, export success is more than 90% not the achievement of the domestic MIC, but the sale of property. The rapid sale of the Soviet legacy continues today; its main consumers are the countries of tropical Africa (such as Mali, Ethiopia, DRC). It is believed that Ukraine sells surplus and outdated equipment. But these "surplus" is somehow very much, and they are by no means the oldest compared to what remains in Ukraine. The most important thing is that the cancellation and sale of the Soviet inheritance is not compensated by new supplies.

Ukrainian tanks and armored personnel carriers are relatively successful in export, but their own aircraft is "neither hot nor cold." The project of modernization of the 2000 Soviet T-400 tanks into the T-64BM Bulat version, which appeared at the beginning of 64, was immediately reduced to 85 units; Today 76 machines are really modernized. But this is not new, but modernized Soviet tanks. The new T-84U Oplot tanks were able to purchase ten of them, ten more sophisticated BM Oplot were ordered, but there was no money for their actual acquisition from the Ministry of Defense. At the same time fifty "strongholds" will be delivered to Thailand, which has money. Not bad sold abroad BTR-3 and BTR-4, the bill goes to the hundreds. The Ukrainian Armed Forces themselves ordered only ten BTR-4, but there was no money for them either. Myanmar and Chad have money for such cars, Ukraine does not.

Parasitism on the remains of Soviet technology

True, with the export of armored vehicles Ukraine has recently had very serious problems. The Kharkov factory named after Malyshev is simply not capable of organizing the mass production of armored vehicles (whether for their aircraft or for export). Now there is a loud scandalous breach of contract with Iraq for the delivery of BTR-4 to this country due to the poor quality of the vehicles. From BTR-3 silently refused to Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, the United Arab Emirates. The main buyers of the new Ukrainian armored vehicles are Nigeria and Thailand, but with the latter, an even greater scandal about the “Plots” is possible.

A vivid personification of the situation in the Ukrainian military-industrial complex has become story the creation of operational-tactical missile complex "Sapsan". In 2007 — 2013, more than 200 million hryvnas (about 1 billion rubles) were spent on it. However, during this time, not only a prototype was not created, but documentation was not even developed. As a result, the project had to close. In fact, 100% allocated to it (very considerable for the Armed Forces of Ukraine) money was simply stolen.

As for artillery systems, air defense systems, combat aircraft and helicopters, today they are not produced in Ukraine itself or acquired abroad. The Su-25 attack aircraft and MiG-29 fighters are being upgraded, but the modernization rate is very low, and, most importantly, as in the case of Bulat, this is not the production of new technology, but some extension of the old life.

Ukraine seems to be able to build ships, however, the construction program for corvettes of 58250 Ave. on “people's money” degenerated into a farce right after its beginning (although the Ukrainian Navy’s leadership planned to control the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean with these corvettes): the first of them in 20 at best, the country will get four corvettes at best, of which the first in 2012. That is, for 2016 years of independence, the country's armed forces received 20 new tanks - and nothing more.

However, even this is not the worst. More strikingly, all these two decades in the armed forces of the country almost completely lacked combat training. When, occasionally, they tried to carry it out, combat missiles hit either in residential buildings or in passenger aircraft (with large civilian casualties); as a result, the Ministry of Defense reduced it to zero. The average flight time per pilot in the Ukrainian Air Force in the 2012 year reached 40 hours, which is considered an outstanding achievement (for comparison, in the Russian Air Force this figure was reduced to 120 hours). The exercises of the ground forces are conducted at best in a company link - a battalion, and even then not often. To achieve a fundamental improvement in the situation is impossible because of the extremely difficult economic situation in the country.

Salvation - in the absence of enemies

On the other hand, it is impossible not to admit that Ukraine, by and large, does not need the army because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.

True, western neighbors (Hungary and Romania) today are aggressive towards Ukraine: they distribute their passports to its citizens living in territories that previously belonged to these countries. But it is not necessary to do it by force: Ukrainian citizens take new passports voluntarily and with pleasure. With such a fight by military means is useless.

Of course, you can theoretically imagine how the neighbors will go to war against Ukraine in order to protect their new citizens, but theoretically. The ability of the Romanians to war has long passed on the category of satire and humor. In addition, the Romanian Armed Forces are also unique in the extreme archaic nature of technology. Until now, all their 853 tanks are T-55, all 98 combat aircraft are MiG-21. A small number of T-72 and MiG-29, obtained from the USSR at the end of 80-x, the Romanians quickly and successfully ditched to complete non-recoverability.

The situation in the Hungarian Armed Forces is not much better: on their armament today there are only 150 T-72 tanks (of which 120 are in storage) and only 14 Swedish Grippen fighters. The number of personnel reduced to 22 thousand people. Accordingly, it is difficult to wait for aggression from Romania and Hungary, the development trajectory of their armed forces is about the same as that of the Ukrainian armed forces - confidently down.

No less difficult to imagine Turkish aggression against Ukraine. Of course, the Turkish Armed Forces are much stronger than the Ukrainian today, but still the Black Sea is a very serious water barrier. In addition, for such aggression there are no clear goals, the problem of the Crimean Tatars for Ankara is not something that is not on the first, but not even on the 20-th place in the list of its foreign policy priorities.

As for Russia, Ukraine is not capable of resisting it in all respects. Today, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have received a very significant superiority over the quantity and quality of equipment and the level of combat training over the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But the main thing is not even in this, but in the fact that for a significant part of the population of Ukraine “Russia” is the “own” country. An extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the event of war against Russia will not just immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the tricolor flag against “yellow blot”.

Thus, the Ukrainian Armed Forces, while continuing to absorb significant money from the disastrous Ukrainian budget, do not provide the country with any defenses. However, she does not need any defenses.

UN peacekeeping operations as a way out

Therefore, in the coming years, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will undergo another reform, consisting in their further significant reduction and sale of a significant part of the remaining equipment and other property. Due to this, the army will be hired, that is professional.

In Russia, many people are still convinced that having a professional army in a country means a higher degree of its development compared to a country with a conscript army. Based on this postulate, it should be recognized that Burkina Faso, Zimbabwe, Papua New Guinea, Gambia are more developed than Norway, Finland, South Korea, Switzerland.

In fact, the method of staffing the Armed Forces is determined by the tasks that they face, and nothing more. In particular, if a country is threatened with a large-scale external aggression, it needs a conscription army: the hired task of repulsing such aggression cannot be solved - this has been repeatedly confirmed by international experience. But the hired army is very well suited for solving problems inside the country in the interests of the regime that hired it. If the draft army, that is, the people's army, in the overwhelming majority of cases will not shoot at its people, then the mercenary army will easily.

As was shown above, in any case, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to fight with Russia; expecting aggression from other directions is stupid. Accordingly, there is no point in having a full-fledged draft army, for which there is still no money. On the other hand, the specificity of the current Ukrainian regime is such that in the very foreseeable future it may seriously require the defense protection inside the country, from its own population. Accordingly, the regime needs “liberal love” - “compact professional army”. Its main task will be just the removal of the remnants of Ukrainian liberalism.

Thanks to a further radical reduction in the number of personnel and equipment, there will be enough money for its maintenance. Moreover, it is possible to bring it to partial self-sufficiency, using in very fashionable now UN peacekeeping operations and NATO in Africa and Asia. The current peacekeeping contingents almost always turn out to be completely incapacitated, because Western peacekeepers do not want to fight, and African and Asian cannot. Ukrainians here will be the ideal option. On the one hand, they, unlike the "real" Europeans, do not feel sorry for anyone, on the other hand, they have a higher level of training than most armies of developing countries (at least African).

For such operations, the UN and NATO pay well. Of course, the Ukrainian leadership will take most of this money for itself, but something will also fall to the military itself. With the current level of income, Ukrainians even “something” will be enough to feel very good. Moreover, the "professionals" will obviously become almost exclusively representatives of the social classes. At the same time, they will gain experience in dealing with civilians and rebel groups, which can then come in handy in their own country. A good addition to the Ukrainian army in this case could be the Chinese army (represented by the Xinjiang industrial building corps), which officially received 50 thousand square meters for 30 years. km of the territory of Ukraine.

Of course, Russia cannot afford a “compact professional army” due to geopolitical or internal political circumstances; on the contrary, we must also increase the current one. Ukraine can serve as an example for it - only not positive, but negative. And this example is truly outstanding. It is very difficult to find in the history examples of such a rapid reduction of powerful, high-quality and balanced aircraft to such a sad state.
301 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +28
    23 November 2013 08: 19
    Ukraine, by and large, is not needed because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.
    Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything. With an approving pat on the shoulder.
    The US administration is sure that the Ukrainians have never lost hope of gaining independence.
    1. +14
      23 November 2013 08: 51
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column already eats everything

      Nevertheless, I think that the next reduction will not be the last. As a result, only explosives and police will remain in Ukraine. Well, why, why do we need an army when there are no enemies around. One friends **** them.
      1. +16
        23 November 2013 08: 55
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Nevertheless, I think that the next reduction will not be the last

        You mean the black bar was white? lol
        1. +19
          23 November 2013 09: 10
          Quote: Ingvar 72

          You mean the black bar was white?

          The black line is still ahead, Ukraine will be pressed from all sides. The EU is already ready to support street protests, a new naughty or "doomsday" is brewing for Ukraine. If the Orange ones come to power again, they will immediately cut everything and everyone request
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Akim
            -34
            23 November 2013 12: 14
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            The EU is ready to support street protests, a new rush is brewing

            Do not quote Putin - you have your own brains. And what does the army have to do with it?
            1. Sadikoff
              +8
              23 November 2013 13: 04
              Usually they pay for the protest work, it will be possible for Ukrainians to earn money at the expense of both parties. There is a good side to this, in terms of earnings, not protest.
            2. Fedya
              +7
              23 November 2013 21: 54
              What does Putin have to do with it? What we do not know who paid the orange!
              1. Akim
                +1
                23 November 2013 22: 21
                Quote: Fedya
                What we do not know who paid the orange!

                What does the orange have to do with it? He talks about yesterday's statement.
            3. smprofi
              +5
              24 November 2013 00: 12
              Quote: Akim
              Do not quote Putin

              and yes!
              why cling to a person?
            4. +5
              25 November 2013 11: 25
              And why not quote a great man. Your Maidan gopnik Eurointegrants can be put on the scales in hundreds, and Putin will outweigh anyway.
            5. 0
              25 November 2013 12: 46
              What does it have to do with that ?! Euro skating rink in all sectors will pass and the army will not forget.
        2. +19
          23 November 2013 10: 58
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          You mean the black bar was white?

          No, he means
          How do optimists differ from pessimists
          Pessimist says
          - It can't be worse
          Optimist, he is answered
          -Maybe, maybe.
      2. +8
        23 November 2013 10: 40
        . As a result, only the BB and the police will remain in Ukraine.
        But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages? laughing
        1. Akim
          +8
          23 November 2013 12: 16
          Quote: Horst78
          But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages

          And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.
          1. +6
            23 November 2013 13: 02
            I am happy for your army. ETOGES what progress in increasing the combat readiness.
            1. Akim
              +6
              23 November 2013 13: 09
              Quote: Horst78
              ETOGES what progress in increasing the combat readiness.

              Progress in the elimination of construction battles and disbats does not smell. But a soldier must fulfill his main function.
              1. +5
                23 November 2013 13: 37
                What do your soldiers do? The officers then 08.08.08 just excelled.
                1. Akim
                  -6
                  23 November 2013 13: 44
                  Quote: Horst78
                  The officers then 08.08.08 just excelled

                  I do not comment on the tale. As for the soldiers, they will carry out what is due under the contract and the combat charter.
                  1. +4
                    23 November 2013 13: 52
                    Oh how angry laughing for "-" thanks, it's like an order
                    1. Akim
                      +14
                      23 November 2013 14: 01
                      Quote: Horst78
                      for "-" thanks, it's like an order

                      Once again I tell everyone. I DO NOT PUT cons. A person must have an opinion and there is nothing for him to express his indignation in this way. If I do not agree, I enter into a dispute.
                      1. +5
                        23 November 2013 17: 34
                        Sorry, I was wrong about you feel
                  2. +8
                    23 November 2013 15: 59
                    Not only on 08.08.08 they distinguished themselves, a number of Ukrainian leaders are still there. Yes, and in our Caucasus there are relatively many characteristic personalities.
                    1. +21
                      23 November 2013 16: 56
                      And in our Caucasus there are relatively many characteristic personalities.
                      Unfortunately, there are Russian mercenaries there. And is this news for you?
                      Shl. Now let's see how many downsides I cover. But this is true. I remember we already discussed peace enforcement. So, in spite of my full and unconditional support for Russia in this matter, the recognition that there may well be Ukrainian military and civilian specialists, and the "Korchinsky chicks" certainly only asked for more compelling evidence than Mamontov's film and Konovalchuk's statement , even for this "innocent prank" my mother did not grieve me - a rally in the ranking from major to corporal.
                      1. +7
                        23 November 2013 17: 11
                        Feel free to have your opinion. And here is my humble one:

                        Ukraine has no one to fight with and Ukraine does not need the army that was under the USSR. Ideally, a large number of resermists and compact, powerful aircraft that are used to working on their territory and who have everything for this. But for such an army, Soviet technology is not suitable, as it was imprisoned for other needs. Therefore, you need to buy and change your defense industry. And, of course, return military service.
                      2. Current 72
                        +21
                        23 November 2013 18: 01
                        Please answer me, did the republics under the USSR have their own armies ??? There was one army that defended and fulfilled its function as an army, for everything and for everyone. And now, who are independent of the USSR, they must have an army, otherwise they should not be independent. We are able to destroy everything, but building is the question .
                  3. +3
                    24 November 2013 03: 11
                    Quote: Akim
                    The divisions turned into brigades, of which there are 17 now (two tank, eight mechanized, one airborne, two airmobile, one missile and three artillery). There are also over 20 regiments, including three special forces regiments.

                    For a country like Ukraine, in principle, not bad !!! Plus three more regiments of Special Forces. I wonder what condition the Ukrainian special forces are currently at.
                    1. Military79
                      +4
                      25 November 2013 02: 52
                      I'll tell you what I know from my own experience of service.8 The OPSPP is in Khmelnytsky, previously was in Izyaslovo. The level of combat is at a height. The preference in the training of both contract soldiers and conscripts is given to classes in the "field". Approximately the alignment for a week is as follows:
                      Monday-tactics and theory (deep reconnaissance, disguise, topography, communications, mine-explosive preparations, regulations for parachutes, etc.);
                      Tuesday-Thursday-field trips for 2-3 days, practicing physically and practicing previously acquired knowledge. Overnight in tents, winter roads. March marching across the intersection. All this with weapons.
                      Friday-fire, physo, drill, analysis of the field exit.
                      Saturday-cleaning weapons, theory, physo, PCBs.
                      And so almost every week for all contractors or conscripts. The schedule was broken when jumping or training. It was at the time I ended the contract in 2006. The salary with all the allowances (rank, length of service, position, jumping, for combat readiness) is about 1000 UAH (150 dollars). It’s impossible to rent an apartment for a salary yourself, live in a hostel for free on the territory of the unit. That's why I left. It was time to start a family or serve further. Now the salary has been raised to 3500 hryvnias (320 dollars) but the problems with housing remained the same. Many guys peacekeeping missions passed I. There you could earn money. At the moment, almost all contract soldiers are in the regiment.
                2. +10
                  23 November 2013 20: 34
                  Quote: Horst78
                  What do your soldiers do?

                  In the Ukrainian army comes to a joke. It turns out that the soldier can’t do anything. Do not do any loading and unloading, do any construction work, etc. It got to the point that officers did repairs in the soldiers’ barracks, because a soldier shouldn’t!
                  1. 0
                    24 November 2013 04: 35
                    Brazenly lying. My childhood friend served 3 years ago. I did everything.
                3. smprofi
                  -27
                  24 November 2013 00: 25
                  Quote: Horst78
                  Officers then on 08.08.08

                  and then!
                  and you never tried to simply calculate: at what distance were the armored forces of the Russian Federation from Tskhinval and after what time did they appear there?
                  for reference, for especially smart ones, the speed of the column (maximum, on the plain - 55 km / h). the distance from the place of deployment is about 300 km. we add time for loading ammunition (there is no vehicle with ammo in the park!), refueling. + the time of passage of "information" from "they started shooting" to "making a decision" "we will show them" - well, it does NOT work that a division moved out of the deployment site and ended up in Tskhinvali 12 hours after the start of its bombing.
                  still. where are the voiced 2 dead civilians on the first day?
                  where are those houses of civilians that suffered from the Georgian "Grad"?
                  can you provide a photo?
                  no!
                  because it just wasn’t
                  1. +1
                    26 November 2013 18: 46
                    Eva how! So the former American ambassador, said that Saakashvili was crazy, and in vain he unleashed a war - the United States in every way prevented and discouraged him from this rash act.

                    By the way, be consistent, complete the next pyramids, and then put forward the next concept of an alternative story.
          2. Fin
            +2
            23 November 2013 13: 13
            Quote: Akim
            And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.

            Two sensible senior officers will solve the problem.
            1. Akim
              +5
              23 November 2013 13: 25
              Quote: Fin
              Two sensible senior officers will solve the problem

              When conscripts were hard. Now all conscripts will not.
          3. +20
            23 November 2013 21: 15
            Dear Akim. Judging by your comments, you think that in Ukraine all the remarkably economic and military development vectors have a positive sign, in general, Ukraine as a whole is moving in the right direction and there are only slight deviations. It sounds to you from Russia - everything is bad, the government is a bastard of GDP and oligarchs, but the numbers are a stubborn thing, and they say (unfortunately for you, for us, though small joy) the opposite. The simplest case in point is to show a mass example of guest workers of Russians in Ukraine, but in Russia of Ukrainian guest workers (especially in the sex industry wassat ) in bulk, although of course much less than Central Asian ones. Of course, I respect your patriotism, but as my wife's sister used to say, "patriotism should not grow into idiocy," and you stubbornly deny the obvious. Do not consider me a Ukrainophobe, this is not so - I myself have relatives in Khmelnytsky and Kharkov. Almost every Russian is in the same situation, but what is happening today in Ukraine cannot be called anything other than mass madness.
            PS Sorry if I offended anyone, this goal was not set. He repeatedly stated that I myself am a supporter of the tightest integration with Ukraine, but in the current state and with today's mood, she is clearly not ready for this and does not strive.
            1. Akim
              +6
              23 November 2013 21: 40
              Quote: velikoros-xnumx
              Do you think that in Ukraine all the remarkably economic and military development vectors have a positive sign, in general, Ukraine as a whole is moving in the right direction and there are only slight deviations. It sounds to you from Russia - everything is bad, the government is a bastard of GDP and oligarchs, but the figures are a stubborn thing

              Can’t you catch me on the chaff? When did I insult Putin? (excluding the phrase big grabber)..
              I’m sitting here in pink glasses and writing with boiling water for joy. Just trying to see what you stubbornly do not want to notice. Even on this topic.
              As for Gaster - an incorrect example. Compare, at least, the fare in the minibus of St. Petersburg and Odessa (the second most expensive city) and you will understand why it is profitable to work at your place, and not at home. By the way, Russia is not very keen on earning money from Odessa. On flights, yes. But neither on Russian nor on Ukrainian steamboats.
              Yes, and I do not drive much into your power. Its enough. But still this is OUR poop.
            2. smprofi
              -30
              24 November 2013 00: 34
              Quote: velikoros-xnumx
              It sounds to you from Russia

              expensive Velikoros, in the area of ​​Pervomaisk there was a Strategic Missile Forces division with strategic missiles. with nuclear warheads.
              during the life of the EBN it was proposed to dismantle it all, give it to Russia, and Russia, the elder sister, will take care of everything.
              and will remain a kind and affectionate older sister.
              Well, they gave it.
              what?
              if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate
              1. Hudo
                +8
                24 November 2013 00: 48
                Quote: smprofi
                if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate


                "y" cannot give a fret to the available heptyl, and you mean missiles. You can’t even imagine what utter nonsense you are talking about. This is very sad.
                1. smprofi
                  -11
                  24 November 2013 01: 25
                  Quote: Hudo
                  You can’t even imagine what utter nonsense you are carrying. This is very sad.

                  Oh! tell the TRUTH!
                  and here we all listen!
                  by the way ... there are far more real patriots than the rest.
                  yes and goodies
                  1. Hudo
                    +6
                    24 November 2013 01: 36
                    Quote: smprofi
                    Oh! tell the TRUTH!
                    and here we all listen!

                    What can I tell you? Find on the net what Kuchma said about why "U" cannot contain nuclear weapons. And do not read the fairy tales of the Hutsul scientists at night.
                    1. smprofi
                      -8
                      24 November 2013 01: 49
                      Quote: Hudo
                      Find what you said online

                      in! find in the "network" what EBN said about this
                      Quote: Hudo
                      cannot contain

                      bedtime stories need only fragile children's souls. are you listening Your business!

                      I will not minus for it is stupid.
                      when there are no arguments, then they’ll pass.
                      I will put you +. for trying to figure out something.
                      1. Hudo
                        +6
                        24 November 2013 01: 54
                        Quote: smprofi
                        in! find in the "network" what EBN said about this


                        For all sorts of things, Kuchma, besides being a rogue, is also a rocket engineer, and EBN is a common misunderstanding in life.

                        Quote: smprofi
                        I will put you +. for trying to figure out something.


                        Completeness! Not "+" and "-" happiness.
                      2. smprofi
                        -3
                        24 November 2013 02: 09
                        Quote: Hudo
                        For all sorts of

                        I have already said before that Russia (well, not all, the Kremlin, of course, of course) undertook to be good neighbors.
                        what was said about the "impossibility" to maintain ... "Kuchma rocket engineer" - OUCH!
                        expensive! if you can’t sleep at the moment, this is no reason to believe in the bullshit that was almost 20 years ago
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Completeness! Not "+" and "-" happiness.

                        yes right
                        but some civilians don’t think so
                      3. 0
                        26 November 2013 12: 21
                        Kuchma was the director of the design bureau in Dnepropetrovka, and had scientific degrees, he even presented parts of the recorder .... in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs he was guarding)))) in 1991 ....))))) he remembered all his life how he Sunday I went to the factory .... and the water management was closed (the weekend), it started to break, and the soldier at his post expressed his point of view (sent him on a fascinating walk with a sexual bias) how much then there was a scream)))) and Dnepropetrovsk is amazing city, I really liked ....
                      4. ytqnhfk
                        0
                        29 November 2013 13: 23
                        Cons, for example, I put to you and the akim, but I just don’t see any reason to prove it to some, they usually don’t contact me because it’s not convenient!
                    2. Lesnik
                      -1
                      25 November 2013 09: 43
                      I ,,,, cried ....... Hutsul scientists ...... really cried from laughter crying
              2. +1
                24 November 2013 23: 25
                Quote: smprofi
                if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate


                If this pair of rockets remained, then with the current level of professionalism of the Ukrainian military, the country would receive a second Chernobyl in tenfold size. It’s not for you to get into a house or even a plane full of Jews.
                President Kravchuk must be kissed in all places for the fact that he got rid of nuclear weapons in time. We must pay tribute to him, cunning and perspicacious.
              3. +1
                26 November 2013 17: 37
                Strategic nuclear forces in Ukraine are just nuclear mines in their own territory. You are a respected full amateur (to put it mildly), since you don’t understand what they would have to create an early warning system, operational and strategic management systems, guidance systems, air defense systems with missile defense elements and much more. You agree to pay it all personally (just a few tens of billions of dollars), because in the budget of the Center of the Universe, it’s not even a poppy seed, but an ordinary black hole ...
          4. +5
            23 November 2013 22: 20
            Colonels and generals from a huge MO apparatus, which has grown like a cancerous tumor, are enough for garbage collection. In addition to the building of the former headquarters of the CCW, thick-handed [b] [/ b from the MO are sitting on the territory of three destroyed military schools.
          5. SSR
            +3
            23 November 2013 23: 24
            Quote: Akim
            Quote: Horst78
            But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages

            And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.

            I have a friend, Zhenya, a pvoshnik and Oleg’s friend from chemical protection, by the way, he recently returned from the American academy, so both officers are of rank higher than a major, in general, they cover both the army and politicians with horseradish
            1. Akim
              +1
              24 November 2013 05: 56
              Quote from S.S.R.
              , in general, horseradish plant and cover the army and politicians

              It’s quite acceptable. My friends and classmates are also unflattering. But this is on an individual level. And in general - problems above the roof. And of course, there is a lot of negativity, but there is also a positive
          6. 0
            26 November 2013 06: 44
            In Russia, it is now similar.
      3. +1
        23 November 2013 19: 32
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        As a result, only explosives and police will remain in Ukraine. Well, why, why do we need an army at all, when there are no enemies around

        They will gather everything in one district for the protection of the national treasure and call it Koncha-Zaspa
      4. +1
        28 November 2013 13: 55
        Quote: Al
        Therefore, in the coming years, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will undergo another reform, consisting in their further significant reduction and sale of a significant part of the remaining equipment and other property. Thereby the army will be made hired, that is, professional.


        Once again, I am convinced that Alexander Khramchikhin ko3el is complete. He started behind the peacekeeping forces, and ended up praising NATO and even famously tied the UN to it.
    2. +12
      23 November 2013 09: 17
      Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything. With an approving pat on the shoulder.
      I completely agree. Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.
      1. Hudo
        +9
        23 November 2013 10: 03
        Quote: Horst78
        Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.


        Not some abstract special servicesand specifically the NKVD - the objects of influence are the same.
        1. Akim
          0
          23 November 2013 12: 17
          Quote: Hudo
          namely, the NKVD - the objects of influence are the same.

          So why not Ivan the Terrible’s guardsmen?
          1. +1
            23 November 2013 20: 53
            "So why can't I remember Ivan the Terrible's guardsmen?"

            do not trifle ... Invite Serdyukov
            1. smprofi
              0
              24 November 2013 02: 16
              Quote: O_RUS
              .Invite Serdyukov

              really? what does the furniture maker have to do with it?
              but some non-staff members according to the Criminal Code of the RSFSR have something to "invite" for.
              that's just ... she is now in the Tsars-Ampirators of All Gazprom, inaccessible ...
      2. +3
        23 November 2013 15: 46
        Which 5 column? Which is in the government?
      3. +2
        23 November 2013 22: 22
        There are strong special services in Ukraine. There is no sensible command - remember at least the story of the SBU and the Crimea.
        1. Hudo
          +3
          23 November 2013 22: 27
          Quote: Basarev
          There are strong special services in Ukraine.


          Strong in what? In the protection of illegal mining of minerals (up to the export of black soil from the fields), the extraction of business, up to the protection of pimping - this is a herd of majors especially!
      4. smprofi
        -1
        24 November 2013 00: 38
        Quote: Horst78
        I completely agree. Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.

        I propose to see what is being done at the moment in Russia.
        about the development of "armored" equipment.
        and about the teachings. just armies and all sorts of "specials" (the latter are only inside the country and can do something)
        1. ytqnhfk
          0
          29 November 2013 13: 32
          Whatever happens look in your garden, we will figure it out, deal with your hut
    3. +34
      23 November 2013 10: 31
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything.

      Mobilization, the mother escorts her son to the front and laments: "Oh, dashingly, dashingly, where should I send letters?"
      Son: "Do not shout mommy! Write" captured ""

      The anecdote is old, but relevant. Ukrainians are good civilians. Warrant officers from them turned out to be good in Soviet times and sergeants, I recall "x ... l without bats, that x ... without testicles."
      Folk wisdom, modera ban people, not me stop
      1. stranik72
        +14
        23 November 2013 13: 11
        In the USSR in aviation,% 40 IAS officers are either Ukrainians or immigrants from Ukraine. In IA and IBA, among the flight personnel, this figure was slightly lower, and in other types of aviation there were enough of them, so there were a lot of excellent officers among Ukrainians. It is a fact.
        1. Current 72
          +8
          23 November 2013 18: 08
          So no one denies this, under the USSR there are many nationalities who were excellent military specialists.
        2. 0
          26 November 2013 12: 31
          in Soviet times there were always a lot of military schools in Ukraine ... this is a fact)))) and the rest of this stems from .... (number of Ukrainian officers)
          1. Akim
            0
            26 November 2013 12: 57
            Quote: KIND
            in Soviet times there were always many military schools in Ukraine ... this is a fact)

            So what? Previously, there was no such territorial division. Example Donetsk Higher Military-Political Engineering College. General Epishev was annually recruited by a battalion of cadets (training battalion - 450-470 people). Worked up to 95 years. Cadets took only the Soviet oath. Although they went on guard, patrols are already in independent Ukraine. According to the release from the battalion, only 50 people remained on the territory of Ukraine. The rest went to their independent countries already. Especially a lot was from Azerbaijan. It was just that under the USSR, Ukraine had to serve and study biased.
      2. +8
        23 November 2013 22: 24
        Here I am about the same thing. The kodla of embezzlers who seized power and the honest laboring Ukrainian people are not the same thing, it is a big difference
        1. +9
          23 November 2013 22: 44
          Quote: Basarev
          Here I am about the same thing. The kodla of embezzlers who seized power and the honest laboring Ukrainian people are not the same thing, it is a big difference


          take and change the word "Ukrainian" to any name of the people, get the same thing. in Ukraine, in Russia or in any other country to embezzlers to one place
          honest working people.
          1. smprofi
            +2
            24 November 2013 01: 27
            Quote: lonely
            take and change the word "Ukrainian" to any name

            the truth is so!
    4. +12
      23 November 2013 10: 33
      I am waiting for an article that remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. From the USSR, Russia got how many millions of troops? How many aircraft-carrying cruisers. Tanks alone 40 THOUSAND pieces now!)))
      1. +10
        23 November 2013 10: 37
        Quote: Kars
        I am waiting for an article that remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. From the USSR, Russia got how many millions of troops? How many aircraft-carrying cruisers. Tanks alone 40 THOUSAND pieces now!)))

        Andrey, here you are wrong. Russia has nuclear weapons left and here it’s .. how many tanks, planes and ships were sawn ...
        I agree with the article, but Ukraine does not need an army now and no one will conquer it.
        1. +6
          23 November 2013 10: 40
          Quote: seasoned
          Russia has nuclear

          The same topic is how much nuclear weapons remained from the USSR from the USSR, and how much it has retained. Nuclear submarines also went to all of the Russian Federation.
          Quote: seasoned
          I agree with the article, but Ukraine does not need an army now and no one will conquer it.

          Well, there are a lot of doubters, especially Russian users, who see the active militarization of Romania, which recently bought as many as 12 B \ U F-16 with delivery in the shortest possible time - a couple of three years.

          And the army should be an attribute of an independent state. Small, but efficient.
          1. +5
            23 November 2013 10: 45
            Quote: Kars
            The same topic is how much nuclear weapons remained from the USSR from the USSR, and how much it has retained. Nuclear submarines also went to all of the Russian Federation.

            So far, enough to turn the USA and Europe into dust. It’s good that we have already stopped with the technique of 3 or 5 times destroying all life on the planet ...
            Quote: Kars
            And the army should be an attribute of an independent state. Small, but efficient.

            + 100500, Why puff up and compare yourself with the aggressor. Ukraine has enough of its own territory, and it is easier to defend than to conquer and the "elder brother" will help
            1. +1
              23 November 2013 10: 52
              Quote: seasoned
              Enough for now

              The USSR had more. And at the same time, it still held a lot of tanks and a multimillion army. So you still have to wait for the article What happened to the former power of Russia. How many Russia squandered the wealth of the USSR. Where did the solid radar field, and a powerful network of airfields, where nuclear submarines? where are warships? where are almost all the same 50 tanks, how many planes from the USSR got I do not know is not my topic.
              1. +21
                23 November 2013 10: 58
                Quote: Kars
                The USSR had more.

                Well, in the days of the USSR, we (with you) could probably destroy life on the planet 10 times, now (without you) we will probably destroy 5 times ... The main thing that everyone knows - they’ll climb into Russia, so don’t mess around ...
                Quote: Kars
                How much of the Russian Federation squandered the wealth of the USSR.

                Andrey, here is the right of succession. How much squandered this is our right, Russia paid its debts for the entire USSR winked
                So do not "shaggy grandma"
                1. -25
                  23 November 2013 11: 12
                  Quote: seasoned
                  Russia paid debts for the entire USSR
                  So do not "shaggy grandma"

                  So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia. Why, speaking of debts, you do not remember what happened. And got no less.
                  By the way, don’t forget, the main part of the debt was still written off, but foreign assets remained. hi
                  1. +23
                    23 November 2013 11: 17
                    Quote: atalef
                    So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia. Why, speaking of debts, you do not remember what happened. And got no less.

                    Last post ... I do not like smearing porridge on a plate ...
                    Russia paid all the debts of the USSR and this is an axiom, it became the legal successor of the USSR and it is an axiom, all the debts and inheritance of the USSR belong to Russia, it is an axiom ...
                    What is the bazaar about? I do not participate in this (flood) anymore
                    1. -2
                      23 November 2013 13: 16
                      Quote: seasoned
                      Russia paid all the debts of the USSR and this is an axiom, it has become the legal successor of the USSR and this is an axiom,

                      Disagree
                      preceding the collapse of the USSR (see Protocol on the Methodology for Determining the Shares of Sovereign States in the Debt and Assets of the USSR and Absolute Debt Amounts from December 4 to 1991) [3].

                      As a result, the following shares of all former union republics in the external debt of the USSR were established (in percent): Russia - 61,34; Ukraine - 16,37; Belarus - 4,13; Kazakhstan - 3,86; Uzbekistan - 3,27; Azerbaijan - 1,64; Georgia - 1,62; Lithuania - 1,41; Latvia - 1,14; Moldova - 1,29; Kyrgyzstan - 0,95; Armenia - 0,86; Tajikistan - 0,82; Turkmenistan - 0,70; Estonia - 0,62.
                      Of course, apart from decommissioned -

                      Russia is considered to be the successor of the USSR not only because it inherited the Soviet anthem, and in the structure of revenues mining is still in first place. Russia became the heir to the USSR when it took over most of the debt of the Soviet Union that had sunk into oblivion. Most of it was repaid only 15 years later, having paid with the Paris Club of creditors. They prefer not to recall the debt to the London Club on a solemn day, since it was possible to reissue it into Eurobonds traded on the market. In other words, if the Paris Club pressed Russia with tough agreements, then the country can buy the debts of the London Club at any time convenient for it.

                      As a result, in August of 2005, Russia paid ahead of time to the Paris Club 15 billions of dollars of debt

                      And now the asset
                      According to the Accounting Chamber, on January 1 of 1996, the debt of foreign states of Russia on intergovernmental loans amounted to 96,4 billion rubles. In terms of the rate quoted by the Central Bank of the Russian Federation for the payment and settlement agreements of the Soviet Union, this debt is equal to 149,6 billion dollars.

                      Of course, more than 80% of these debts were written off, but the balance is much more than 15 billion of debt to the Paris club, I'm not talking about real estate abroad
                      , as the Diamond Fund correctly noted, Gold and foreign exchange reserves (albeit not large), but the main thing is still the debt of the countries of the 3 world. All these countries are also included in the Paris Club, so even taking into account the restructuring of debts - all the same, more than 30 billion. came back. these are the facts.
                  2. +13
                    23 November 2013 11: 23
                    But no, for example, Russian factories at the beginning of the 90s were worse than in the same Ukraine. And if you look at the Baltic states, in general, from industrialized countries they became agrarian.
                    1. Akim
                      -16
                      23 November 2013 12: 28
                      Quote: leon-iv
                      in general industrialized countries have become agrarian.

                      This is the box your media pushed into your brains.
                      1. +4
                        23 November 2013 13: 09
                        Prove with numbers!
                      2. Akim
                        -2
                        23 November 2013 13: 28
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        Prove with numbers!

                        In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.
                      3. +10
                        23 November 2013 17: 00
                        Quote: Akim
                        In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.

                        This is growth from "0".
                      4. sasska
                        +7
                        25 November 2013 01: 25
                        In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall.
                        fool

                        As a resident of that very Pro-Baltics, I can say to home-grown "ANALitegs" and other cooks who can govern the State: I am simply moved by the statement that at that time there was growth. there were stock market speculations, which gave a short-term effect of prosperity. a kind of banking bubble. for the indicated period in the "local Palestinians" both Production and Agriculture were successfully screwed up.
                      5. +8
                        24 November 2013 17: 24
                        Quote: Akim
                        In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.

                        SHO ?! What did you smoke?
                        I go to Latvia every year - my relatives live there. Latvians fleeing from Latvia in packs - NO work! What is the GDP growth !! ??

                        Houses are boarded up one in two !!!
                      6. sasska
                        +3
                        25 November 2013 01: 05
                        yes, it’s ... what eco pulled you to Geyvropu ...

                        PS: do not read Ukrainian newspapers even during the day. and at night - God forbid.
                      7. +5
                        23 November 2013 13: 50
                        Yes, yes. only all qualified engineers have dumped someone where.
                      8. -1
                        1 December 2013 23: 06
                        Quote: Akim
                        This is the box your media pushed into your brains.


                        akim you are a ukrainian emissary
                    2. roller2
                      +1
                      23 November 2013 15: 01
                      The article is another inadequate from the author.
                      For some reason, the author brought information that Ukraine got the 4th strongest army, which she put it mildly about ... la, but forgot to add that the territory of Ukraine is 20 times smaller than Russia and it simply didn’t need such an army, and it would not be realistic contain it.

                      Then she begins to blame the fact that she began to sell surplus weapons. I would like to ask the author "What to do with him? Salt or what?" Russia has decided to send the equipment to the oven. Well, we are not rich enough to throw money, we modernize it a little, capitalize and sell it, which is much more profitable than melting it down.

                      And then generally pearls
                      But the main thing is not even that, but that for a significant part of the population of Ukraine, it is Russia that is “their” country. The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.

                      just do not comment)

                      chided for exercises with NATO troops am

                      issued another pearl
                      Of course, the Ukrainian leadership will take most of this money for itself, but the military itself will get something

                      here neighing not restraining. the author, even before writing this article, would ask about the financial side of this issue, and not sculpt his fabrications.
                      1. +13
                        23 November 2013 17: 17
                        Problems with the army, this is a reflection of the problems of the state of Ukraine as such. A country that is crumbling and mired in the abyss of corruption cannot have a normal army. Ukraine exists because it is allowed by neighbors; at other times, they would have torn Nenka to pieces long ago. , and in the present they are only trying on.
                      2. +6
                        23 November 2013 17: 26
                        Quote: Motors1991
                        at other times, they would have long torn to pieces Nenku, but in the present they are only trying on.

                        It would have been a different time if nuclear weapons had not been handed over. And our presidents would have taken more care of the army, Ukrainians do not like to give their own.
                      3. +9
                        23 November 2013 18: 33
                        Our presidents have one concern, how to become a billionaire from a millionaire. In general, I recommend that our Svidomo read the history of the formation of the German state, as Prussia first appeared, and then the German Empire, from the withered Elector of Brandenburg, and this happened in the same time period as in Ukraine since the uprising led by B. Khmelnitsky. The difference is impressive.
                      4. +3
                        23 November 2013 20: 44
                        Quote: Motors1991
                        Our presidents have one concern, how to become a billionaire from a millionaire.

                        Do you think it is easier to do if someone occupies the country?
                      5. +2
                        24 November 2013 18: 56
                        For 9 months of this year, 33 billion dollars were exported from Ukraine. It is not difficult to calculate, at this rate 45 billion will be taken out to the end, and if all 50 are tried, this will make up about three quarters of the annual budget of our state. that under the Tatar-Mongol yoke with its tithe, the people lived better than with our Basurmans.
                      6. sasska
                        +4
                        25 November 2013 01: 30
                        a question with sarcasm: what color is your revolution now expected there? laughing
                      7. 0
                        25 November 2013 11: 43
                        Now, according to the recommendations of the Euro-Washington Regional Committee, the revolution has been assigned the colors of the rainbow. Sim will win! love
                      8. 0
                        25 November 2013 14: 03
                        I think there will be no revolution, there are not so many Svidomo, otherwise they have long started a referendum on association. People are more united by hatred of the current regime, and both in the East and in the West of Ukraine, this can shoot, but no one will shed blood for the EU .Most understands nothing good is waiting for us there.
                      9. 0
                        26 November 2013 21: 28
                        still would! all the same, 10% of the tax, this is not up to 60% of direct and bony withdrawals of your dough! winked
                      10. +8
                        23 November 2013 20: 54
                        Quote: Kars
                        It would be a different time, would not surrender nuclear weapons.

                        Ukraine was simply not able to contain nuclear weapons, it did not have and did not have technologies for its production, special enterprises producing and servicing nuclear weapons. Well, nuclear warheads would stand for several years, then what should they be done with? Neither could Ukraine recycle or make new ones on its own. Therefore, do not fantasize.
                    3. +2
                      23 November 2013 22: 34
                      Indeed, they were the first echelon of defense of the USSR. The strongest military districts of the Union. And now everyone around laughs at their parades.
                      1. +1
                        24 November 2013 10: 20
                        Quote: Basarev
                        all around laughing

                        who besides you dares?
                      2. +3
                        24 November 2013 11: 06
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: Basarev
                        all around laughing

                        who besides you dares?

                        Yes all. Here Basarev is right.
                      3. +1
                        24 November 2013 11: 19
                        Quote: bistrov.
                        Yes all. Here Basarev is right.

                        Could it be more specific? Romanians are laughing? Poles? Kazakhstan? Belarus?
                      4. sasska
                        +1
                        25 November 2013 01: 39
                        Yes, you and your holey winners already figure out which you have their parades. and then you can talk more specifically.

                        and then "naturelich, Kemsk volost"
                      5. Lesnik
                        -1
                        25 November 2013 01: 53
                        Well, where are the "Estonian SSR, Tallinn" Liberals to see you there died of hunger or moved to Kiev?
                        http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/4962-goryachie-estonskie-gei-k-zavetnoy-tseli-prod

                        vigayutsya-meeeedlenno.html
                        http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_22359/
                        http://www.visitestonia.com/ru/%D1%87%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE

                        %D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B8-%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8

                        F%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F/%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B4%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D0%B8%D0%

                        BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC/%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%
                        B5%D0%B4%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B9-%D1%81%D0%B
                        5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C
                        %D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2

                        Let's laugh together
                        http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/393598/
                      6. sasska
                        +2
                        25 November 2013 11: 44
                        here I got buggers and cons laughing
                      7. sasska
                        +4
                        25 November 2013 01: 37
                        and I still laugh.
                        in parades across the square, in fact, only the Winners walked.
                        and now - gay parades in Kyiv square marching with you.

                        high class, cho.
                        https://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQ
                        twIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWIo02Ft8-K4&ei=oXCSUomzDMT
                        BswaF8oHoCQ & usg = AFQjCNGzpLh468_FCrZwGMX20-qbyNWlBQ & bvm = bv.57127890, d.Yms
                    4. sasska
                      +2
                      25 November 2013 01: 01
                      if you look at the Baltic states so generally from industrial countries have become agrarian

                      The Baltic states became a European consumption market, for the price of joining Geyropa was precisely the extermination of the remaining both industry and agriculture.
                      Yes, and in Soviet times, never The Estonian, Latvian, and Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republics did not position themselves as industrial.
                      hi
                  3. +14
                    23 November 2013 12: 48
                    Quote: atalef
                    So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia.

                    yes sho you envy! you are now paid for the Holocaust! your people more perished in the Second World War! than everyone else! poor YOU! hi you are like "scrooge mcduck" hi
                    1. -23
                      23 November 2013 12: 59
                      Quote: Far East
                      yes sho you envy!

                      What for ? Yours is yours, just half the truth is worse than a lie

                      Quote: Far East
                      you are now paid for the Holocaust!

                      Like the prisoners of concentration camps and hijacked to work in Germany (Russian (and Ukrainians the same. Or is it a secret for you? My (former) father-in-law (Russian) receives the same. And?
                      Do you think German money?
                      Or envy?


                      Quote: Far East
                      your people more perished in the Second World War! than everyone else! poor YOU!

                      We are not poor laughing

                      Quote: Far East
                      you are like "scrooge mcduck"

                      It's better than mu ... ak like you
                      laughing hi
                      1. +10
                        23 November 2013 13: 38
                        Quote: atalef
                        Like the prisoners of concentration camps and hijacked to work in Germany (Russian (and Ukrainians the same. Or is it a secret for you? My (former) father-in-law (Russian) receives the same. And?


                        But do not share the link?
                        and then in my memory the payments were literally one-time, well maybe a couple of times.
                        just stolen to work and prisoners of concentration camps.
                        do not provide dokumentik as Russian (and Ukrainians) ANNUAL pay?
                      2. +2
                        23 November 2013 13: 51
                        Quote: Rider
                        But do not share the link?

                        Yes, easy
                        The German Fund "Remembrance, Responsibility and Future" will pay compensation to former concentration camp and ghetto prisoners, citizens deported to the territory of the German Empire within the borders of 1937 or to the territory occupied by it and forced to work in industrial enterprises or the public sector. Payments will also be received by persons who were in other places of detention, similar in terms of conditions to concentration camps, forced laborers of rural, municipal and household services. The largest payments - 15 thousand German marks - are due to former prisoners of concentration camps and ghettos. The collection and processing of applications in Russia is carried out by the Mutual Understanding and Reconciliation Foundation under the leadership of Natalia Malysheva, Chairman of the Board. The received data is sent for verification to Germany, and from there the applicants receive money.
                        The Russian side sends requests under the standard procedure to the German MCP

                        even
                        Compensation may be claimed by relatives of former prisoners of concentration camps, ghettos and driven to forced labor in Germany if the person himself died after 16 on February 1999.


                        Quote: Rider
                        and then in my memory the payments were literally one-time, well maybe a couple of times.
                        just stolen to work and prisoners of concentration camps.

                        juvenile prisoners receive pensions - who is my father-in-law - his family was stolen (from the Pskov region. Struga Reds) when he was one and a half years old.

                        Adults received one-time payments - but the question is none of these --- after all, they received 15 marks (almost euros) - how is that? Not a fee?
                      3. +6
                        23 November 2013 14: 08
                        Quote: atalef
                        Adults received one-time payments - but the question is none of these --- after all, they received 15 marks (almost euros) - how is that? Not a fee?


                        that is, there are no ANNUAL payments?
                        so the verb "PAY" in your post should be replaced with "PAYED" once.
                        and even then, how many people alive are left from those?
                        in 2000 that year?
                        particularly pleased with the passage from your quote
                        Quote: atalef
                        The biggest the sums of payments - 15 thousand German marks - are due to former prisoners of concentration camps and ghettos.

                        that is, those who were hijacked to work in Germany were paid clearly less.
                      4. -9
                        23 November 2013 14: 22
                        Quote: Rider
                        so the verb "PAY" in your post should be replaced with "PAYED" once.

                        those. paid and paid - we are talking about money, am I right?


                        Quote: Rider
                        and even then, how many people alive are left from those?
                        in 2000 that year?

                        And the heirs? Who are supposed to do the same
                        And with us they multiply, according to your


                        Quote: Rider
                        that is, hijacked to work in Germany paid clearly less

                        Yes, most likely working on farms in Germany was a little more comfortable. than sitting in ghettos and concentration camps. By the way, not a single Jew was in the concentration camps. Or is the toad crushing?
                        Would you like to change?
                      5. +6
                        23 November 2013 14: 33
                        Quote: atalef
                        those. paid and paid - we are talking about money, am I right?

                        no wrong.
                        there is a certain difference between "PAY" (annually and constantly) and "PAYED" (one-time).
                        and if you do not understand it, then compare the MONTHLY salary and the ONE-time dismissal allowance.
                        Quote: atalef
                        And the heirs? Who are supposed to do the same

                        I really liked this question of yours, especially in the light of your answer
                        Quote: atalef
                        Relatives of former prisoners of concentration camps, ghettos, and those who were driven to forced labor to Germany may also claim compensation. if the person himself died after February 16, 1999.

                        and if he died BEFORE this date, fly by, or what?
                        do not want to clarify?
                        Quote: atalef
                        By the way, not a single Jew was in the concentration camps. Or is the toad crushing?

                        especially considering that the Jews in the concentration camps by the time of their liberation survived about 200 000 people.
                        but Israel received more compensation than the remaining millions of prisoners put together, and CONTINUES to receive.

                        but I can’t talk about it.
                        After all, the frog strangles me.

                        so do you think?
                      6. -7
                        23 November 2013 14: 55
                        Quote: Rider
                        no wrong.
                        there is a certain difference between "PAY" (annually and constantly) and "PAYED" (one-time).
                        and if you do not understand it, then compare the MONTHLY salary and the ONE-time dismissal allowance.

                        Why is it wrong ? And there and there is money. Ie getting Russian, etc. nationalities of compensation from Germany, you are not in dispute. the only question is the amounts, And this is envy. I would understand if I said why the Jews get it. and others not. and here only the amounts are different. By the way, on this occasion, claims to pr-vu of the USSR (Russia) since all over the world they get more than in Russia. Or do you think compensation is received only in Russia and Israel?

                        Quote: Rider
                        I really liked this question of yours, especially in the light of your answer

                        Like it or not. this is a provision for compensation. heirs have the right to receive (and in Russia the same) ilya not right?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and if he died BEFORE this date, fly by, or what?
                        do not want to clarify?

                        Not allowed . And what to do with it ? And if he died in a concentration camp. together with the whole family - so no one should. Claims against the German government.

                        Quote: Rider
                        especially considering that the Jews in the concentration camps by the time of their liberation survived about 200 000 people.

                        From 6mln, and envied this? I wish your grandfather sat there?

                        Quote: Rider
                        but Israel received more compensation than the remaining millions of prisoners put together, and CONTINUES to receive.

                        Germany recognizes particular responsibility to the Jews. Do you disagree with this? Claims to the German government. None of your grandmas pay. or from yours?

                        Quote: Rider
                        but I can’t talk about it.
                        After all, the frog strangles me.

                        Not a toad, but a whole toad.
                      7. +5
                        23 November 2013 15: 10
                        Quote: atalef
                        Why is it wrong ? And there and there is money.

                        Well, if for you ONE-TIME payments, the same as CONSTANT, then you have alternative thinking, and here I am not your assistant.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Like it or not. this is a provision for compensation. heirs have the right to receive (and in Russia the same) ilya not right?

                        did I quote your quote correctly?
                        Is everything okay with the date?
                        so the relatives of the dead BEFORE 1999 are not at work
                        Ah ah ah.
                        but as stated then, ALL paid.
                        and with what aplomb.
                        and reality turned out to be far more prosaic.
                        Quote: atalef
                        From 6mln, and envied this? I wish your grandfather sat there?

                        both of my grandfathers died so that from 6 your million, at least something remnant.
                        so stop speculating on this topic.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Germany recognizes particular responsibility to the Jews. Do you disagree with this? Claims to the German government. None of your grandmas pay. or from yours?

                        stop spraying saliva, the stump is clear that you should all be in life, but in this case there is nothing to LIE that the Russian / Ukrainian / Soviet also PAY (and did not wave away once, such as choke on the little ones)
                        Quote: atalef
                        Not a toad, but a whole toad.

                        Yes, mine, compared to yours, is a tadpole.
                      8. -3
                        23 November 2013 15: 20
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, if for you ONE-TIME payments, the same as CONSTANT, then you have alternative thinking, and here I am not your assistant.

                        \ For me, both this and that money. Sometimes one-time is more constant


                        Quote: Rider
                        did I quote your quote correctly?
                        Is everything okay with the date?
                        so the relatives of the dead BEFORE 1999 are not at work
                        Ah ah ah.

                        Such an impression. that I came up with these rules. All claims against Germany

                        Quote: Rider
                        but as stated then, ALL paid.
                        and with what aplomb.
                        and reality turned out to be far more prosaic.

                        Indeed, paid to all the living - prosaic.

                        Quote: Rider
                        both of my grandfathers died so that from 6 your million, at least something remnant.

                        Like one of mine, the second returned as an invalid of the second group. what would you live

                        Quote: Rider
                        , but in this case there is nothing to LIE that the Russian / Ukrainian / Soviet also PAY (and did not wave away one-time, like here choke on the shortage)

                        Firstly, they pay, and secondly, regarding the amounts and conditions of the claim against Germany. not we invented them
                        By the way. if you are so offended by the amounts paid to Russians - give examples of refusal of compensation laughing I didn’t hear anything mass or single cases
                        Maybe you heard?
                      9. +3
                        23 November 2013 15: 29
                        Quote: atalef
                        For me, this and that money

                        I said alternative thinking.
                        if you don’t see the difference before the singular and plural, then I wash my hands
                        Quote: atalef
                        Such an impression. that I came up with these rules. All claims against Germany

                        you referred to them, and even with aaaagromny aplomb.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Indeed, paid to all the living - prosaic.

                        indeed, dismissed, here and shut up - it does not happen more prosaic.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Like one of mine, the second returned as an invalid of the second group. what would you live

                        I asked to omit this topic, so as not to escalate the already tense "dialogue"
                        Quote: atalef
                        First pay

                        firstly - PAYED, one-time and forever.
                        Quote: atalef
                        give examples of refusal of compensation

                        and what's this?
                        where does the refusal of already not great sums here?
                        what more do you refer to?
                      10. -8
                        23 November 2013 15: 39
                        Quote: Rider
                        I said alternative thinking.
                        if you do not see the difference before a single

                        I believe in math, and wash your hands, hygiene above all

                        Quote: Rider
                        you referred to them, and even with aaaagromny aplomb.

                        Aplomb? do you know the meaning of this word? Germany pays according to its rules. me that the Papuans refer?

                        Quote: Rider
                        indeed, dismissed, here and shut up - it does not happen more prosaic.

                        alternative - do not take it. shout and be indignant - I haven’t seen either one --- it means everyone is happy - with the exception of some indignant granddaughters laughing

                        Quote: Rider
                        I asked to omit this topic, so as not to escalate the already tense "dialogue"

                        but? And who started? Or do you think only your grandfathers fought?

                        Quote: Rider
                        firstly - PAYED, one-time and forever.

                        So what's the problem ? In sums? Could not take

                        Quote: Rider
                        and what's this?

                        So, to nothing

                        Quote: Rider
                        where does the refusal of already not great sums here?

                        And if not great. maybe it was just proud to send three bolts of Hitler’s descendants?

                        Quote: Rider
                        what more do you refer to?

                        I, unlike you, write specifically, but the fact that you do not like it is peasant.
                      11. +4
                        23 November 2013 15: 49
                        Quote: atalef
                        I believe in math

                        They believe in religion, and mathematics is an exact science, you need to KNOW it.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Aplomb? do you know the meaning of this word?

                        however you claimed that
                        PAY, not paid.
                        more precisely it is necessary.
                        however if you BELIEVE in mathematics ...
                        Quote: atalef
                        alternative - do not take it. shout and resent

                        and what does this have to do with our dispute?
                        you somehow do not want to refuse a salary as a protest?
                        Quote: atalef
                        but? And who started?

                        so you started laughing whoever above suggested to my grandfather to sit in a concentration camp.
                        You do not remember what you said?
                        Ah ah ah
                        Quote: atalef
                        I, unlike you, write specifically

                        forgive me, but you write frank nonsense.
                        I did not understand why 80-90 year old grandparents should have refused money.

                        something brought you wrong.
                      12. +1
                        23 November 2013 21: 04
                        My regards hi

                        Quote: Rider
                        then I wash my hands


                        do not leave Check back often!
                      13. +8
                        23 November 2013 14: 09
                        Quote: atalef
                        It's better than mu ... ak like you

                        well, you are definitely MUDA ...! until the end of your life on this earth you will WHILE you are poor, you have suffered the most! why YOU DO NOT LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD! More precisely, HATE! For more than 90 years, my grandmother got it in the nineties! and do not whine! in short, everything about you is clear to me and as clear as a white day! ... IDEAS! soldier
                      14. -7
                        23 November 2013 14: 25
                        Quote: Far East
                        you until the end of life on this earth will whine sho you are poor,

                        We are not poor

                        Quote: Far East
                        why YOU DO NOT LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD! More precisely, HATE!

                        you are far from the whole world, although it’s for me on the drum

                        Quote: Far East
                        ! my grandmother more than 90 years she in the nineties got shaw that's all! and do not whine

                        Strange, she got it. and you whine. What are grannies grandmothers - tu-tu?

                        Quote: Far East
                        ! in short, everything about you is clear to me and as clear as a white day! ... IDEAS!

                        Humanoids? Whether ?
                        Kill yourself against the wall laughing
                      15. +2
                        23 November 2013 14: 46
                        Quote: atalef
                        Strange, she got it. and you whine. What are grannies grandmothers - tu-tu?
                        I stated the FACT! you whine! WORLDWIDE!
                        Quote: atalef
                        Kill yourself against the wall

                        Well, well, God’s chosen people! I didn’t come up with anything else! HUMANOID! Is this how you end your life? when payment is late! laughing
                      16. -13
                        23 November 2013 15: 06
                        Quote: Far East
                        I stated the FACT! you whine! WORLDWIDE!

                        Facts in the studio

                        Quote: Far East
                        when payment is late!

                        Why do we need it
                        We are already
                      17. +7
                        23 November 2013 15: 19
                        Quote: atalef
                        Facts in the studio

                        I advise you to read the book of one (I emphasize) Jewish the author (whose parents really suffered in the Nazi camps) "The Holocaust Industry" N. Finkelstein.
                        everything is painted in sufficient detail there.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Why do we need it
                        We are already

                        yes, yes - we are in the know, and recently your Netanyahu flew to Moscow, he decided to personally see the GDP with his finger.
                      18. -11
                        23 November 2013 15: 24
                        Quote: Rider
                        Recommended reading book by one (I emphasize) Jewish author (whose parents really suffered in the Nazi camps) "The Holocaust Industry" N. Finkelstein.
                        everything is painted in sufficient detail there.

                        SAME ME FIGURE. READ THE BOOK OF NOVODVORSKAYA ABOUT RUSSIA.

                        Quote: Rider
                        yes, yes - we are in the know, and recently your Netanyahu flew to Moscow, he decided to personally see the GDP with his finger

                        It is strange how exactly the Kazakh comrades lower their GDP.
                      19. +4
                        23 November 2013 15: 36
                        Quote: atalef
                        SAME ME FIGURE. READ THE BOOK OF NOVODVORSKAYA ABOUT RUSSIA.

                        and what did not please this author?
                        in the "discussion" with the pimply, I also brought this book, in response I heard roughly your "arguments" (if you can call them that)
                        however, he did not cite the ARGUMENTED denials (neither of the author himself) but his data, numbers, and studies.

                        can you get away?
                        Quote: atalef
                        It is strange how exactly the Kazakh comrades lower their GDP.

                        Yes, many people do not like GDP in their homeland.
                        one for the fact that: "a dictator and does not like democracy and LGBT people"
                        and others for the fact that: "he sold himself to the West and does not want the revival of Russia."
                        it seemed, what does the "Kazakh comrades" have to do with it?
                2. Akim
                  -9
                  23 November 2013 12: 25
                  Quote: seasoned
                  Russia paid debts for the entire USSR

                  That's why they say A and not mention B? atalef is right. But in addition to assets, Russia received a gold and foreign exchange fund and a diamond. Nevertheless, the CIS countries built it all over again.
                  1. +6
                    23 November 2013 13: 11
                    Well, you yourself ran away from Russia running away, along with mud and watered with fraternity so ... Who drove you?
                    1. Akim
                      +3
                      23 November 2013 13: 30
                      Quote: serviceman.
                      You yourself ran away from Russia

                      From which Russia? There was no such state then.
                      1. +2
                        24 November 2013 07: 47
                        Russia has always been Russia and it will lag behind ...
                      2. Akim
                        -7
                        24 November 2013 09: 13
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        Russia has always been Russia and it will lag behind ...

                        That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...
                      3. +5
                        24 November 2013 09: 22
                        Army and Navy! When once again the brothers get their tail pinched, they shout help the Russian brother! Help ... And then the brothers spit in the back ... Yes, and they are allies against the brothers ....
                      4. Akim
                        -2
                        24 November 2013 09: 29
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        When once again the brothers pinch their tail, they shout to the Russian brother help!

                        Let's do it without another propaganda. Everyone says like that. If only revered in other languages. Look at the actions - who did you help? Little unrecognized states. The biggest political victory for today is Syria. Fortunately, in the USA, not the dumb Bush Jr. is sitting, but the cowardly Obama.
                      5. 0
                        24 November 2013 18: 58
                        Can you tell me how many allies your leadership has?
                        I will not ask for Ukraine, because personally to me Ukrainians are not only allies, but also brothers.
                      6. Akim
                        -1
                        24 November 2013 19: 14
                        Quote: 31231
                        Can you tell me how many allies your leadership has?

                        That's for sure a kindergarten in the measurements. They have no allies. Only I did not notice in the topics about Russia that the Ukrainian respondents rushed first with such brutality, as even here it began.
                        But the topic is about the army. All the same, they ruined the politics.
                      7. 0
                        24 November 2013 20: 34
                        That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...


                        I do not understand something ?! Your phrase?
                        Although maybe you personally do not feel like an ally to the people of the Russian Federation.
                      8. 0
                        25 November 2013 13: 51
                        Quote: Akim
                        That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...

                        I wonder who has them?

                        I mean, if you look more closely, now they are "friends" not with someone, but against someone.
                        And they change partners like ... gloves. laughing
                      9. The comment was deleted.
                  2. +7
                    23 November 2013 13: 42
                    Quote: Akim
                    That's why they say A and not mention B? atalef is right. But in addition to assets, Russia received a gold and foreign exchange fund and a diamond

                    tell me where in Ukraine there were diamond deposits.
                    and about gold, it's almost a detective story. since at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the country's gold reserves amounted to 0 point Y tenths.
                    so how much do you take away from zero percent on the bounty of the soul?

                    You should at least study the history of the problem before you lie.
                    1. Akim
                      +4
                      23 November 2013 14: 10
                      Quote: Rider
                      tell me where in Ukraine there were diamond deposits

                      The diamond fund is formed not depending on the place of production. In general, in Ukraine, amber, quartz, diamonds, sapphires, topazes, beryls, and gold were mined under the USSR. On a scale during the demise of the USSR, this was already a little, but substantial production was introduced in the 30s and 50s.
                      1. +7
                        23 November 2013 14: 42
                        Quote: Akim
                        The diamond fund is formed not depending on the place of production

                        so under the USSR there was EVERYTHING common, and the extracted resources in the RSFSR were also distributed to ALL republics.
                        and since at the time of the collapse he was in the territory of Russia, he was not subject to division.
                        but there was no gold as such in the treasury (where was it divided, unanswered question)
                        and share accordingly - nothing.

                        therefore, an attempt to expose Russia as a debtor flies past the cash register.

                        when dividing ALL republics AGREED with the provisions of the contract,
                        and therefore, they go to ... uh, into a brighter future (let the earth be them - black earth).
                      2. Akim
                        +4
                        23 November 2013 14: 59
                        Quote: Rider
                        when dividing ALL republics AGREED with the provisions of the contract,
                        and therefore, they go to ... uh, into a brighter future (let the earth be them - black earth).

                        Correctly. AGREED. Therefore, one does not have to constantly kick that Russia alone paid all the debts of the USSR. This was not only a unilateral decision of Moscow.
                      3. +4
                        23 November 2013 15: 22
                        Quote: Akim
                        Therefore, one does not have to constantly kick that Russia alone paid all the debts of the USSR.


                        but what except someone, someone, someone paid?
                        I did not know.
                        But can I have a closer look?
                        Well, at least on the example of Ukraine.
                        to whom?
                        when?
                        how much ?
                      4. Akim
                        -4
                        23 November 2013 15: 30
                        Quote: Rider
                        but what except someone, someone, someone paid?

                        They didn’t understand correctly. It is said that only Russia and all Soviet pluses also went to Russia alone. And about the gold and foreign exchange fund - a myth. They never emptied him to zero. Even in Romania under Ceausescu.
                      5. +3
                        23 November 2013 15: 41
                        Quote: Akim
                        It is said that only Russia and all Soviet pluses also went to only Russia

                        as well as the minuses that you are in a hurry to forget about.
                        but about the gold reserve, this is the point. there was not 0.
                        and about 300 tons
                        out of 7000 (data are approximate, because I don’t remember exactly)

                        however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

                        learn materiel.
                      6. -3
                        23 November 2013 15: 44
                        Quote: Rider
                        however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

                        learn materiel.

                        then I don’t understand. screams of ouri patriots about the Russian remaining in Kazakhstan, including? By the way, you are among them. So what about Baikonur?
                      7. +5
                        23 November 2013 15: 59
                        Quote: atalef
                        then I don’t understand. screams of ouri patriots about the Russian remaining in Kazakhstan, including? By the way, you are among them. So what about Baikonur?

                        Russia leases it.
                        and in my opinion it’s all said.
                      8. Akim
                        0
                        23 November 2013 15: 46
                        Quote: Rider
                        however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

                        And rightly so. Moscow was located on the territory of Russia, and this was the Soviet government, and not the governments of the Union republics that made debts. By your logic, pay them.
                      9. +3
                        23 November 2013 16: 00
                        Quote: Akim
                        And rightly so. Moscow was located on the territory of Russia, and this was the Soviet government, and not the governments of the Union republics that made debts. By your logic, pay them.

                        so Russia paid.
                        or will you deny it?
                      10. Akim
                        +3
                        23 November 2013 16: 18
                        Quote: Rider
                        so Russia paid.
                        or will you deny it?

                        They returned like ponies in a circle. I paid for it and received Soviet bonuses. All is fair.
                        I personally would only get a donut hole from that fund, and that is unlikely. Then the vouchers were sold without remorse, because they did not know what to really do with them.
                      11. 0
                        23 November 2013 16: 55
                        Quote: Akim
                        They returned like ponies in a circle. I paid for it and received Soviet bonuses. All is fair.

                        and, excuse me, were there many bonuses?
                        and were they worth the debts of the USSR?

                        when you answer this question, then I think it will be possible to continue the discussion.

                        and now she is clearly at a standstill.
                      12. Akim
                        +2
                        23 November 2013 17: 39
                        Quote: Rider
                        and, excuse me, were there many bonuses?
                        and were they worth the debts of the USSR?

                        It does not seem that Russia Libya Iraq, etc. write off new debts.
                      13. +1
                        23 November 2013 17: 54
                        Quote: Akim
                        It does not seem that Russia Libya Iraq, etc. write off new debts.

                        what relation do the NEW debts of Russia have to the debts of the USSR?
                      14. Akim
                        0
                        23 November 2013 18: 02
                        Quote: Rider
                        what relation do the NEW debts of Russia have to the debts of the USSR?

                        These are the debts of these states to the USSR, to the collection of which Russia has the right.
                      15. +2
                        23 November 2013 19: 43
                        Quote: Akim
                        These are the debts of these states to the USSR, to the collection of which Russia has the right.

                        and took a lot?
                        and indeed, how much can be taken from Bantustan, in which the power has already changed three times.
                        but the debts of the MOST USSR were before the Saaavs all other powers, and nobody seems to have reduced or canceled them.
                      16. Akim
                        0
                        23 November 2013 19: 48
                        Quote: Rider
                        and took a lot?
                        and indeed, how much can be taken from Bantustan, in which the power has already changed three times.

                        A lot a little - I will not count. Anyway, neither I nor you will prove anything. A change of government does not automatically annul a country's debt. The RSFSR and then the USSR paid royal debts.
                      17. +3
                        23 November 2013 20: 07
                        Quote: Akim
                        A lot a little - I will not count.

                        which brings us back to the beginning of the dispute that Russia practically did not get anything for the debts of third countries to the USSR.
                        but ONE Russia paid for the debts of the USSR to other countries.
                        and therefore, all sorts of talk about the fact that Russia got some kind of buns bypassing the former rep - talk in favor of the poor.

                        I think the topic is closed.

                        wish you hello.
                      18. +1
                        23 November 2013 20: 46
                        Quote: Rider
                        , Russia DID NOT REALLY RECEIVE ANYTHING.

                        But is this really our problem? And for the written-off debt to Algeria, Algeria purchases Russian weapons. Iraq is going to do something similar.
                        And the fact that they could not get, blame only yourself.
                      19. 0
                        24 November 2013 19: 13
                        Do not tell me what's wrong with the armored personnel carriers for Iraq ?! Did they manage to become Iraq’s debt to Ukraine? Or went into zero gravity?
                      20. -3
                        23 November 2013 15: 31
                        Quote: Rider
                        but what except someone, someone, someone paid?
                        I did not know.
                        But can I have a closer look?
                        Well, at least on the example of Ukraine.
                        to whom?
                        when?
                        how much ?

                        Well, Kazakhstan has undertaken obligations on the debt of the USSR — it refused to pay the same, but for some reason it requires
                        The Kazakh government has estimated the damage to the environment caused by the accident of the Russian Proton-M launch vehicle on July 2 at the Baikonur cosmodrome at almost $ 90 million.

                        Isn't it a bit much?
                        Cleaner than the Holocaust, no casualties. and 90 give lemons. laughing
                      21. +4
                        23 November 2013 16: 06
                        Quote: atalef
                        Well, Kazakhstan assumed obligations for the debt of the USSR

                        so I say - nobody paid anything to anyone (except Russia)
                        Quote: atalef
                        Isn't it a bit much?
                        Cleaner than the Holocaust no injuries. and give 90 lemons

                        Do not exaggerate, but just study the topic.
                        in the Holocaust, Germany paid Israel a few TENS BILLION dolarians.

                        or better yet, read my book.
                        I think get rid of multi-illusions.

                        and the claim is legal, for the damage caused.
                        Yes, and Roscosmoss lesson.
                        can start to work with your hands and not ...

                        although kaneshno sturgeon should be cut.

                        and the accident itself is muddy, to mix up the attachment points of several blocks, this looks like sabotage.

                        but shhhh ...
                        Spies do not doze off.
                      22. +4
                        23 November 2013 16: 17
                        [quote = Rider] Do not exaggerate, but simply study the topic.
                        on the Holocaust, Germany paid to Israel several tens of billions of dolaria. [/ quote]

                        Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur, then the rent is small, then 90 lyamov, tell me at least someone was hurt? And then for what money?

                        [quote = Rider] or better yet, read my book.
                        I think get rid of multi-illusions.
                        [Quote]

                        I read here that the Ukrainians are descended from the Atlanteans, and this is the same truth

                        [quote] In Kazakhstan / Forty-five signs of this Kazakh - "nats"
                        Stellar, 18 December 2012, 05: 24 0
                        1. At a subconscious level, he has an Asian inferiority complex, but he tries to convince others that this is not so.
                        2. Even if he speaks good Russian, he never shows it in public.
                        3. In each case, he complains that during the “Russian occupation” the damned invaders destroyed the Kazakh language and culture, although in those days he did not even try to study this very culture and language.

                        4. When a grandmother speaks to him in a bus in Russian, he pretends that he does not understand her at all, even if this is not so at all. Joyfully, without a shadow of embarrassment, he informs the person who speaks to him in Russian that there is no belmez in him. If possible, he tries to be indignant that the Russian language is imposed on him in this way.
                        5. Hates (or pretends to hate) everything non-Kazakh. Nevertheless, when she removes whores, prefers blondes with a European appearance. When asked why, with a greasy laugh, he answers that the Russians have been fucking his people for many years, and now he wants to recoup.
                        6. On Fridays, he must visit the mosque, and after the mosque, he eats arak in institutions with blackjack and whores.
                        7. In a society of Kazakhs (even in their own family) they will never touch pork fat, expressing their terrible disgust for this food product with their whole appearance. When no one sees, he begs the watchman Mikhalych for the hate of a hateful product and with a rumbling quietly devours it.
                        8. Secretly envious of Michael Jackson, who dyed himself in white and straightened his hair, among his fellow tribesmen he says how he got these pale, nosy and bumpy-eyed faces of non-Kazakhs.
                        9. When a Kazakh national concert is shown on TV, if no one is nearby, with a cry of "Fu ..!", The TV quickly switches to several channels away from the channel where the concert is broadcast, if there is someone from the Kazakh brothers nearby, for a long time and tediously admires the skill of the performers.
                        10. With indifference (in fact) refers to the Kazakh customs and traditions. In public, he rants about the need to develop a national culture and language, and about the obligatory, even if violent, study of them by non-Kazakhs. [/ Quote]

                        http://baursak.kz/blog/kazakhstan/640.html#.UpCbgdKGqnc

                        very interesting (here the continuation of the rest 35) An interesting little book.
                      23. +4
                        23 November 2013 16: 26
                        Quote: atalef
                        Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur

                        atalef, please don’t be unprotected, type your text more calmly, otherwise it’s hard to read with brackets, or clean your browser’s cache.

                        but according to Baikonur, so I say that it is RENT, that is, it is NOT the property of Russia which it did not want to transfer to another republic.
                        she PAYS for her.
                        and as far as the amount is concerned, a new start will be completed at the Far East, and let Kazakhstan do whatever it wants with its spaceport, at least a museum, at least for scrap metal.
                        actually from Kazakhstan it’s a big stupid thing, because besides Russia, NO one needs a spaceport, and they themselves can’t pull it.
                        since 80% of the staff is Russian. and the launch itself is sharpened ONLY for Russian missiles.

                        it’s like with a Ukrainian pipe, didn’t want to share - let it rust.


                        and by the way, in vain did you bring something about the Kazakhs there (I didn’t read it) since I am Russian.
                        but they are slipping into ridiculing nations, in my opinion - low.
                        I can sit on my beloved skate - anti-Semitism.

                        torment brush off.
                      24. 0
                        23 November 2013 16: 34
                        Quote: Rider
                        Talef, please don’t be unprotected, type your text more calmly, otherwise it’s hard to read with brackets, or clean your browser’s cache.

                        The tablet is buggy, but nothing that has eyes - let it see

                        Quote: Rider
                        but according to Baikonur, so I say that this is RENT, that is, it is NOT the property of Russia which she did not want to transfer to another republic

                        I do not understand, i.e. You want to say that Baikonur is the property of Kazakhstan? What business is it with? In general, Kazakhstan, in addition to the desert steppe, has invested something there?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and by the way, in vain did you bring something about the Kazakhs there (I didn’t read it) since I am Russian.

                        But in vain, did not read. although I thought. that you are a Jew. by the amount of read about the Jews laughing Can you read about native Kazakhs? And then I believe in all this. dissuade me.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I can sit on my beloved skate - anti-Semitism.

                        Have you climbed off him?

                        Quote: Rider
                        torment brush off

                        Nothing, you answer the questions. especially according to 45 rules. How do you get along there. they spread rot. and you endure. By the way, how is the goy in Kazakh?
                      25. +5
                        23 November 2013 16: 47
                        Quote: atalef
                        I do not understand, i.e. You want to say that Baikonur is the property of Kazakhstan?

                        it is, just type "Baikonur rent" in Google and (I hope) you will understand everything
                        Quote: atalef
                        In general, Kazakhstan, in addition to the desert steppe, has invested something there?

                        But this is the conditions for the separation of the republics, it does not matter who and how much has invested there, to be in the territory of the country - you will get ownership.
                        otherwise, ALL would be tortured to each other to pay alimony
                        Quote: atalef
                        But in vain, did not read. although I thought. that you are a Jew. by the amount of read about the Jews

                        yes you know, have to.
                        since anti-Semitism is my hobby, and more than once butted with pimples and profs (and other Israelis), I have to correspond.
                        that came in handy with you.
                        to eliminate the inaccuracies you have cited.

                        but basically everything goes pretty civilized.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Have you climbed off him?

                        And what do you think ?
                        Quote: atalef
                        How do you get along there. they spread rot. and you endure.

                        Yes, here we are, we endure, endure.
                        and then we turn cities into a lunar landscape.

                        and so we are peaceful and not evil.

                        but you know, Kazakhs are one of the most sane peoples in the post-Soviet space.
                        certainly not to be compared with Caucasians.
                        so the word "spread rot" is not the best.
                        although everyday nationalism, no, no, yes, it’s slipping.
                        Again, this mess with national language.

                        but what do you care?
                        something you are again leaving the wrong track.
                      26. -7
                        23 November 2013 17: 06
                        Quote: Rider
                        it is, just type "Baikonur rent" in Google and (I hope) you will understand everything

                        What didn’t I understand? And where is justice? How did Kazakhstan grab the Russian Baikonur?

                        Quote: Rider
                        But this is the conditions for the separation of the republics, it does not matter who and how much has invested there, to be in the territory of the country - you will get ownership.
                        otherwise, ALL would be tortured to each other to pay alimony

                        What are you saying ?

                        Quote: Rider
                        yes you know, have to.
                        because anti-Semitism is my hobby

                        Well, thank God . It is very easy to hate the Jews, probably not to utter a fuss against the Kazakhs. anus is compressed
                        laughing

                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes, here we are, we endure, endure.
                        and then we turn cities into a lunar landscape.

                        Is this a threat to Kazakhstan?

                        Quote: Rider
                        but you know, Kazakhs are one of the most sane peoples in the post-Soviet space.

                        How do you know ? You have not read anything about them

                        Quote: Rider
                        certainly not to be compared with Caucasians.
                        so the word "spread rot" is not the best

                        those. Are you implying that the Caucasians are spreading rot on the Russians?

                        Quote: Rider
                        but what do you care?
                        something you are again leaving the wrong track.

                        And why did you decide that I should ride your rut. Maybe you’ll start to answer questions. otherwise you’ll move out and move out. The National Security Committee of the Republic of Kazakhstan - is not sleeping, right?
                      27. +6
                        23 November 2013 17: 40
                        Quote: atalef
                        What didn’t I understand?

                        and not surprisingly, you did not even know this, but climbed into a topic in which neither with your ear nor with a snout.
                        Quote: atalef
                        What are you saying ?

                        I’m saying what you DO NOT KNOW.
                        that is, simply - I am closing the gaps in your upbringing.
                        Quote: atalef

                        Well, thank God . It is very easy to hate the Jews, probably not to utter a fuss against the Kazakhs. anus is compressed

                        I don’t know what YOU is shrinking, but what is the topic of Kazakh-Russian relations related to the topic of our discussion?
                        Have you decided to engage in boltalogy?
                        Quote: atalef
                        How do you know ? You have not read anything about them

                        and I live next door to them, in our house, through one, Russians, Kazakhs.
                        and so far there have been no graters.
                        Quote: atalef
                        those. Are you implying that the Caucasians are spreading rot on the Russians?

                        Yes, I do not hint, but we do not remain in debt.
                        every day reports, then one mujik was canceled, then a pack.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Is this a threat to Kazakhstan?

                        it is necessary for ALL to know.
                        than usually wars with Russia end.
                        Quote: atalef
                        And why did you decide that I should ride your rut. Maybe you’ll start to answer questions. otherwise you move out and move out

                        what questions?
                        What else have I not answered you?
                        on Baikonur - answered
                        for USSR debts - also
                        on interethnic relations - similarly
                        how many denyushek you Germany (and not only she) unfastened - educated

                        What else do you want to know?

                        Do not be shy, I can improve your education on many issues.
                      28. -2
                        23 November 2013 17: 52
                        Quote: Rider
                        and not surprisingly, you did not even know this, but climbed into a topic in which neither with your ear nor with a snout.

                        Where am I to you, an expert on everything from Israel to the rest of the world --- except Kazakhstan

                        Quote: Rider
                        Oh, and I say what you DO NOT KNOW.
                        that is, simply - I am closing the gaps in your upbringing.

                        Gaps in knowledge - this is education - do not smoke dung (instead of tobacco)

                        Quote: Rider
                        and I live next door to them, in our house, through one, Russians, Kazakhs.
                        and so far there have been no graters.

                        Strange, but I thought your neighbors were exclusively Jews from Israel

                        Quote: Rider
                        but what is the topic of Kazakh-Russian relations related to the topic of our discussion?

                        exactly the same as Kazakh-Jewish

                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes, I do not hint, but we do not remain in debt.
                        every day reports, then one mujik was canceled, then a pack.

                        In Kazakhstan ?

                        Quote: Rider
                        it is necessary for ALL to know.
                        than usually wars with Russia end.

                        And to Kazakhstan? Do you say the lawsuit in Baikonur is legal?

                        Quote: Rider
                        what questions?
                        What else have I not answered you?
                        on Baikonur - answered
                        for USSR debts - also
                        on interethnic relations - similarly

                        Answered ? To whom, if only to myself

                        Quote: Rider
                        how many denyushek you Germany (and not only she) unfastened - educated

                        Much less than Kazakhstan will pull from Russia for Baikonur

                        Quote: Rider
                        Do not be shy, I can improve your education on many issues.

                        belay laughing
                      29. +2
                        23 November 2013 18: 05
                        Quote: atalef
                        Where am I to you, an expert on everything from Israel to the rest of the world --- except Kazakhstan

                        why "except"?
                        after all, I’m educating you about the affiliation of the cosmodrome and international relations.
                        and not only do you not know this, you are also carrying a blizzard.
                        Quote: atalef
                        Gaps in knowledge - this is education - do not smoke dung (instead of tobacco)

                        Well, I’m not so good at terminology, but I kick you a lot into your ignorance of various subjects
                        (Do you still BELIEVE in mathematics?)
                        Quote: atalef
                        exactly the same as Kazakh-Jewish

                        In Kazakhstan ?

                        And to Kazakhstan? Do you say the lawsuit in Baikonur is legal?

                        urinate in Kazakhstan (their modzhiks)
                        and Natsik bark
                        or can you cite pimer ethnic conflicts in the Republic of Kazakhstan?

                        Are you sure the claim will be satisfied?
                        Quote: atalef
                        Much less than Kazakhstan will pull from Russia for Baikonur

                        and answer for the words?
                        I advised you to read the book, the numbers are given there, so MUCH KZ will not be received in 100 years, even if the rockets fall every year.

                        so still on what issues should you still be advised 7
                        or you already decided to continue the discussion for the sake of an artistic whistle.

                        do not be shy.

                        yes, by the way, if you decide to continue the dialogue, then start a new branch.
                        otherwise it is inconvenient to answer in the "narrow-film" version.
                        here just write what is answered below.
                      30. +9
                        23 November 2013 20: 21
                        atalef. Sorry to interfere. You obviously know little about the situation in Baikonur. I will not write about the last accident, because it's not all over there. Kazakhstan does not see money for Baikonur. And what has Roscosmos invested in Baikonur? What are the investment figures? 115 mil. dollars for rent we received in the form of fighters with a developed resource, training of our cadets in the Russian Federation. We did not receive a single kopeck from this lease to the country's budget. And this figure is not taken from the ceiling. Exactly so much money is needed for the maintenance of the city and the cosmodrome. Yes, it's not even a matter of money - we refuse to lease in order to deal with the cosmodrome and space on the same rights as Russia. RK'S BASIC DISSATISFACTION ON BAIKONUR IS THAT THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION DOES NOT INVEST IN THE MODERNIZATION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF THE CITY AND THE COSMODROME. This leads to almost complete wear and tear of the infrastructure. On the other hand, we understand why the Russian Federation is in no hurry to do this. Therefore, a decision was made to revise the agreement on Baikonur. Now we ourselves can invest in the cosmodrome. And we certainly won't let the city and the cosmodrome die. Atalef, you know that the Republic of Kazakhstan has lost about 250 mil. dollars - read the agreements on the Angara and Baiterek between Astana and Moscow? RK is no longer a poor country - you are behind our reality. New agreements on Baikonur were reached in Yekaterinburg and are reflected in the new treaty on friendship and good-neighborliness between our countries. Russia is not leaving Baikonur anywhere. Do you even know how many launch sites are there and how many on the new Russian Vostochny?
                        THERE IS INTERESTING WHAT THE JEWS WOULD DO IF THERE WERE DELIVERED TO OUR PLACE (in Baikonur, under the same conditions)? It’s sure that every penny of costs was calculated and then this figure would be multiplied by 2 (or maybe 3).
                        As for the int. relations in the Republic of Kazakhstan - read the article on this site from November 20 or 21 (that is, more recently) why the Russians will not leave Kazakhstan. I really didn’t like your way of writing a comment on this topic. We, in the Republic of Kazakhstan, believe that the issue is interethnic. relations are solved better than in any other country in the CIS. And proud of it. Yes, at the household level, it sometimes occurs. But this does not go beyond this. But it has always been. It's unavoidable . Another thing is that there is a certain feature beyond which no one will cross. And this is our mentality. So do not about anus, etc. .. This way you insult not only Russians, but also Kazakhs and all Kazakhstanis. hi
                      31. +2
                        24 November 2013 00: 06
                        Quote: Kasym
                        And what did Roskosmos invest in Baikonur?

                        "It turns out that there was no waste in Roscosmos! The rocket itself stole the funds allocated for it and disappeared with them in the Tikhrm Ocean" (c) laughing
                      32. Hug
                        0
                        23 November 2013 19: 31
                        Quote: Rider
                        Quote: atalef
                        Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur




                        ... after all, I can sit on my favorite skate - anti-Semitism.

                        torment brush off.



                        Well, at least one honestly admitted that he is anti-Semite.
                        For honesty - (+)
                        For anti-Semitism - (-)
                      33. +4
                        23 November 2013 20: 02
                        Quote: Kram
                        Well, at least one honestly admitted that he is anti-Semite.
                        For honesty - (+)
                        For anti-Semitism - (-)

                        and what should I do about this?
                        sob?

                        you'd better pay attention to the fact that FOR ALL of my arguments, my counterparties did not bring a single sane co-argument.

                        and you are plus, minus, well, just like in a kindergarten.
                      34. +2
                        23 November 2013 23: 08
                        One gets the feeling that some of the republics want to cash in on Russia - a very indicative example of the Baltic states, when they wanted to squeeze 80 lards from Russia openly
                      35. -1
                        23 November 2013 16: 27
                        Quote: Rider
                        and the claim is legal, for the damage caused.
                        Yes, and Roscosmoss lesson.
                        can start to work with your hands and not ...

                        That is, so now, from scratch, cut down 90 lemons to punish Russian Roskosmos for everything that he invested in Kazakhstan and its economy --- is this legal? Do you have a percentage from this? Write - at least one person was hurt?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and the accident itself is muddy, to mix up the attachment points of several blocks, this looks like sabotage.

                        It looks like a diversion to squeeze the dough in a empty place. My distant Kazakh Froind.
                      36. +3
                        23 November 2013 16: 36
                        Quote: atalef
                        Ie so, cut down 90 lemons from scratch

                        honestly I'm not sure that they will pay this amount.
                        (I do not monetize this topic)
                        but if you want for your sake I can rummage through the network, will you be very upset if the total numbers are less?
                        Quote: atalef
                        It looks like a diversion to squeeze the dough in a empty place. My distant Kazakh Froind.

                        you just forgot that missile carriers are being collected in Russia, and Kazakhstan cannot be reached there.
                        and it would be more correct to call me a Kazakh "friend" since I have already announced my nationality.

                        (quotation marks are required) since it’s hard to call us friends.
                      37. -4
                        23 November 2013 16: 53
                        Quote: Rider
                        but if you want for your sake I can rummage through the network, will you be very upset if the total numbers are less?

                        Exactly how much you are saddened by the difference between one-time payments and a pension

                        Quote: Rider
                        you just forgot that missile carriers are being collected in Russia, and Kazakhstan cannot be reached there.

                        Why not in Ukraine? And will Kazakhstan get a loan there? To get a part from the diamond fund?

                        Quote: Rider
                        and it would be more correct to call me a Kazakh "friend" since I have already announced my nationality.

                        Well, horseradish radish is not sweeter

                        Quote: Rider
                        (quotation marks are required) since it’s hard to call us friends.

                        shyndyқ
                      38. +5
                        23 November 2013 16: 57
                        Quote: atalef
                        Exactly how much you are saddened by the difference between one-time payments and a pension

                        yes, she does not upset me, I just eliminated your "inaccuracy" and clarified the object of the dispute
                        Why not in Ukraine? And will Kazakhstan get a loan there? To get a part from the diamond fund?

                        and Ukraine already has a thin gut to collect such missiles.
                        pre-prosperous.
                        and Kz and there’s no reason to get anywhere. And without him there’s enough mess.
                        Well, horseradish radish is not sweeter

                        not in the know - did not try
                        shyndyқ

                        Are you saying something in Japanese right now?

                        oh something, you again got on the wrong tracks.
                      39. +2
                        23 November 2013 23: 23
                        Personally, I believe that Kazakhstan should be aware that even American missiles fly on Russian engines. Only Russia conducts manned space flights. There is no development lost on the Buran - the rocket lifts more than one hundred tons, and Buran itself is not anyway - we are world leaders in the field of astronautics. The Kazakh successes against this background look simply ridiculous, and therefore I have the right to say - only Russia can Baikonurit - Kazakhstan can neither launch a rocket nor build it. Even the costs of maintaining the droma will not be pulled to Kazakhstan .A because Kazakhstan's claims to Russia regarding the Baikonur personally in my eyes do not look quite thorough.
                    2. 0
                      24 November 2013 19: 03
                      These people are far from materiel. Use stamps. What can they discuss with them if they believe that Russia sold them and sells gas more than anyone else. Of course, they did not hear about the payment of transit through the territory of Nenko.
                3. +6
                  23 November 2013 13: 25
                  Quote: seasoned
                  How much squandered is this our right, Russia and debts for the entire USSR

                  your right. Here is an article similar to this one must be written.
                  Quote: seasoned
                  So do not "shaggy grandma"

                  why? This same article was written for some reason. And komenty also smile at me.
                  1. +4
                    23 November 2013 13: 44
                    Quote: Kars
                    for some reason they wrote this article. And komenty also smile at me.

                    And how YOUR comments smile at me.
                    especially when comparing the military budgets of the two countries.
                    1. +2
                      23 November 2013 13: 53
                      Quote: Rider
                      And how YOUR comments smile at me.

                      Why?

                      Quote: Rider
                      especially when comparing the military budgets of the two countries.

                      and what? yours is bigger, but along the way you steal even more. Yes, and besides you need it - you have a border with China. And we have with Romania.

                      By the way, where did the world's largest submarine missile carriers go with such your military budget? And how many aircraft carriers remain?
                      1. +2
                        23 November 2013 14: 22
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why?

                        because the same hl ... uh, funny as well as part of the comments from the Russian side (such as truncated and pretty little stars (which, however, is ALMOST true))
                        Quote: Kars
                        By the way, where did the world's largest submarine missile carriers go with such your military budget? And how many aircraft carriers remain?

                        and for the sake of interest, you google how many of them are being built and launched into the water, as well as tests pass.
                        nice (or NOT nice) be surprised.
                        as for aircraft carriers,
                        But in the defense strategy the role of aircraft carriers is laid?
                        do they need vaabche Russia?
                        they are for my purposes, and they did not design BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE.

                        but you, dear appet, not only aircraft carriers, but also frigates are not expected (what can you brag about besides Sagaidachny?)
                      2. +4
                        23 November 2013 14: 36
                        Quote: Rider
                        because the same hl ... uh funny as part of the comments from the Russian side

                        Can I have my specific commentary and its analysis? From this topic? Well, what would everyone understand what you're talking about?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and for the sake of interest, you google how many of them are being built and are being launched,

                        why google - the article immediately appears about any body movement.
                        Quote: Rider
                        as for aircraft carriers,
                        But in the defense strategy the role of aircraft carriers is laid?

                        Are you trying to jump? Where are the ships inherited from the USSR? And if there is no strategy laid down, why are Kuznetsov still tortured?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and here you, dear appet, not only aircraft carriers, but also frigates are not expected

                        I’m not an appanet and all the more not my dear. I am treating you for nothing.
                        As for frigates, there is no special need for them even in principle. Even cash is redundant.
                      3. +3
                        23 November 2013 14: 50
                        Quote: Kars
                        Can I have my specific commentary and its analysis? From this topic? Well, what would everyone understand what you're talking about?

                        Yes, a couple of your top comments, there in your Russia, too, a karachun comes, because well, her armed forces do not reach the USSR army
                        Quote: Kars
                        why google - about any body movement here immediately the article appears.

                        you don’t want in vain, there are 2-3 pieces of nuclear missile carriers in the system.
                        and I said it on the aircraft jackets - they don’t even plan them, because there is no need
                        but give you the scale of the union.
                        why blame it, because Russia is developing and expanding its armed forces.
                        and your only cuts.
                        but you don’t worry because you have no time to fight
                        Quote: Kars
                        I’m not an appanet and all the more not my dear. I am treating you for nothing.

                        this, forgive me, a fad you have remained from the time of your fiasco in the topic of "betrayal of Ukraine by Russia, and supposedly defeat (ah, not defeat, but an unconvincing victory in the Balkan war)"?
                        however, you have the complexes.
                      4. +1
                        23 November 2013 15: 32
                        Quote: Rider
                        yes a couple of your top comments

                        Specific and parsing. Or weak?
                        Quote: Rider
                        since well, its armed forces do not reach the USSR army

                        And what do they reach? By the number of personnel? By the number of equipment?
                        How many USSR was the Tu-160 and how many could save the Russian Federation?
                        Quote: Rider
                        you don’t want in vain, there are 2-3 pieces of nuclear missile carriers in the system.

                        In year?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and on aviamatkah I said

                        Where are the Soviet? What did the Russian Federation get from the USSR?
                        Quote: Rider
                        but give you the scale of the union.

                        Well, Ukraine is blamed for the fact that the size of the army is not the same as that left from the USSR, and they sob sadly. And they themselves still have that circus.

                        Quote: Rider
                        and your only cuts.
                        but you don’t worry because you have no time to fight
                        I don’t worry, and I have long said that it should be reduced.

                        Quote: Rider
                        this, sorry, you have a little fad since your fiasco in the topic of "Russia betraying Ukraine
                        Why are you trying to ascribe your fiasco to me? You don’t prove it here, but the fact that you remembered it is clear that until now this fiasco torments you and does not give up repentance.

                        Quote: Rider
                        I (ah, not defeat, but an unconvincing victory in the Balkan War) "?

                        Not paralysis, but meaninglessness. Neither the Straits, nor the controlled Balkan countries.
                        Quote: Rider
                        however, you have the complexes.

                        before yours still grow and grow.
                      5. +1
                        23 November 2013 15: 54
                        Quote: Kars
                        Specific and parsing. Or weak?

                        disassemble frank nonsense - fire
                        Quote: Kars
                        And what do they reach? By the number of personnel? By the number of equipment?

                        I say again, it falls short, but for YOU (or rather Ukraine, and this can’t be seen as IMF loans)
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why are you trying to attribute your fiasco to me?

                        I had no doubt that you would try to dodge.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Not paralysis, but meaninglessness.

                        Well then, your independence is pointless, no money or a second hfrance.
                        Ah ah ah.
                        commonplace - yes ?!
                      6. -3
                        23 November 2013 16: 00
                        [quote = Rider] Quote: Kars
                        Specific and parsing. Or weak?

                        disassemble frank nonsense - fire [/ quote]
                        [quote] [quote = Rider] Quote: then I wash my hands [/ quote]
                        [quote] [quote = Rider] Quote: I asked to omit this topic, so as not to whip up an already tense "dialogue" [/ quote]

                        Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.
                        The standard answer is ordinary trololo.
                        You need a Rider So, on my question on Baikonur, or so you will play in silence
                      7. +1
                        23 November 2013 16: 09
                        Quote: atalef

                        Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.
                        The standard answer is ordinary trololo.

                        I know. But he doesn’t even pull on a trololo, so he’s a little talker.
                      8. +6
                        23 November 2013 16: 11
                        Quote: Kars
                        I know. But he doesn’t even pull on a trololo, so he’s a little talker.


                        this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.
                        and all you can do is sting each other like you ... more.
                      9. roller2
                        0
                        23 November 2013 16: 23
                        Quote: Rider
                        this "bastard" is driving you


                        This is Kars to drive laughing and then the race has grown?
                      10. +3
                        23 November 2013 16: 29
                        Quote: rolik2
                        This is Kars to drive laughing and the race is then grown?


                        rest assured.

                        more than once.

                        Kars is he St. I go so formidable and indestructible, and inside - white and fluffy.

                        he is simply embarrassed by my arguments.

                        (do not be offended - both_

                        today i'm on the beat.
                        tomorrow is a day off, I can wrestle until morning.

                        wink
                      11. +1
                        23 November 2013 17: 20
                        Quote: Rider
                        this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.

                        That everything was limited in this topic
                        Quote: Rider
                        disassemble frank nonsense - fire

                        They would take and prove that they themselves do not rave)))
                        Quote: Rider
                        : then I wash my hands

                        this maneuver is also frequent.
                        And in fact, every time you fly, because you climb to a place where you don’t understand anything.
                      12. +4
                        23 November 2013 17: 28
                        Quote: Kars
                        That everything was limited in this topic

                        Well, why, quite successfully handle
                        Quote: Kars
                        They would take and prove that they themselves do not rave))

                        and what to prove? that the army is declining after the reduction of the budget of Nenko herself?
                        or what new technology does your army see at best, PIECE?
                        mournfully say nothing about the state of the military-industrial complex
                        minute of silence
                        volley.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And in fact, every time you fly, because you climb to a place where you don’t understand anything.

                        in fact, I DIPE YOU EVERY time in YOUR SAME errors and jambs.
                        as in the topic about the "betrayal" of Russia.
                        or how about "floating" (no one knows where) BTR 4.
                      13. +1
                        23 November 2013 17: 33
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, why, quite successfully handle

                        this is your auto-suggestion.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and what to prove? that the army is declining after the reduction of the budget of Nenko herself?

                        and that the budget of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was reduced? and this is a pan-European trend of reducing armies. I don’t see anything special.
                        Quote: Rider
                        or what new technology does your army see at best, PIECE?
                        m is also pretty good.
                        Quote: Rider
                        mournfully say nothing about the state of the military-industrial complex
                        minute of silence
                        in vain, in vain. Could google.

                        Quote: Rider
                        in fact I EVERY time you dunk in YOUR SAME errors and jambs

                        Well, show it? Don’t hesitate? Don’t be scornful. My quote, and your bogging down the context of my comment.
                        Quote: Rider
                        as in the topic about the "betrayal" of Russia.

                        I don’t remember, but since you remember it means that there you brutally received from me.
                        Quote: Rider
                        or how about "floating" (no one knows where) BTR 4.

                        and? did you receive an official statement by the Iraqi side? about the termination of the contract and the reasons?
                      14. +3
                        23 November 2013 17: 47
                        Quote: Kars
                        this is your auto-suggestion.

                        yes no it's a fact
                        Quote: Kars
                        and that the budget of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was reduced? and this is a pan-European trend of reducing armies. I don’t see anything special.

                        But the Russian is building up, and after that you will argue that in Russia everything is as bad as in Nenko?
                        Quote: Kars
                        m is also pretty good.

                        it will be EXCELLENT otherwise it will only remain for junk ride
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well show it? Feel free to

                        and who claimed that Russia betrayed Ukraine, to which I poked you with my nose, that it was an independent one that went over to the Poles immediately after signing the reunification agreement?
                        and your armored personnel carriers 4 have already arrived, or are they still hanging out at sea?
                        enlighten me, I have not been interested in this topic for a long time
                        Quote: Kars
                        and? did you receive an official statement by the Iraqi side? about the termination of the contract and the reasons?

                        so hde betr?
                      15. roller2
                        -4
                        23 November 2013 17: 54
                        Quote: Rider
                        But the Russian is building up


                        Can you bring the numbers how much Russia got from the USSR and how much did it build up this potential ?? Or will you move tactfully again?
                      16. 0
                        23 November 2013 18: 11
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Can you bring the numbers how much Russia got from the USSR and how much did it build up this potential ?? Or will you move tactfully again?

                        you will forgive, but you ask very stupid questions.
                        if you didn’t know (well, maybe they hurt for a very long time)
                        then after the collapse of the USSR in Russia were not the best of times to build up the army.
                        but now financing, construction, and modernization are actively going on.


                        think before you formulate the question.
                      17. roller2
                        0
                        23 November 2013 18: 20
                        But you cannot bring the numbers by how much the army has grown compared to what was inherited from the USSR. You start to shrink during the "hard-and-worse" times.
                        In Ukraine, these are not the best of times and such a large army, in the absence of any external threats, is simply not needed. Is it something you can blame for?
                      18. 0
                        23 November 2013 18: 36
                        Quote: rolik2
                        But here you can’t bring figures in how much the army has increased compared to what you got from the USSR.

                        video, I did consider you smarter than why you are slipping into an open Baltic directory.

                        just think about what you are saying.
                        WHY did the Russian army have to grow at the time of collapse and crisis?
                        Now there is a process of restoration and updating.
                        unlike Ukraine.
                        Quote: rolik2
                        In Ukraine, these are not the best of times and such a large army, in the absence of any external threats, is simply not needed.

                        but tell WHEN it will be better (or at least it was?

                        can you see some perspectives EXCEPT cuts and tones?

                        Is there any hope that the patient is more likely alive than dead?

                        The whole essence of our butts with Kars is that he is trying to prove that in Russia things are just as deplorable as in Nenko.
                        that there is a frank and arrogant FALSE.

                        and you decided to pretend to him.
                      19. roller2
                        0
                        23 November 2013 18: 44
                        I operate on the facts seen with my own eyes
                        you are quoting to me the calculations of various "experts" with links to sites and your conjectures,
                        assess the state of the country's armed forces from a distance of thousands of kilometers not quite correct
                      20. 0
                        23 November 2013 18: 59
                        Quote: rolik2
                        I operate on the facts seen with my own eyes

                        can you voice them?
                        Well, how much they put into service, launched into the water, lifted into the air.

                        sold in the end.

                        smash my "speculations" with murderous FACTS
                        prove that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are at their best and will wipe their noses ... well, who doubt
                      21. +2
                        23 November 2013 20: 40
                        Quote: Rider
                        yes no it's a fact

                        If you prove a fact, in theory it should be easy.
                        Quote: Rider
                        But the Russian is building up,

                        And what? You better confirm your words about the reduction of military appropriations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and after that, you will argue that in Russia everything is as bad as in Nenko?

                        I argued this? Give a quote. I argued that the Russian Federation squandered more of the USSR’s inheritance than Ukraine. And let Russia take better countries for comparison with it - China, the USA. And you can still chastise Liechtenstein that there is no fifth-generation fighter.
                        Quote: Rider
                        it will be EXCELLENT otherwise it will only be left to drive on junk

                        Well, many people ride. There Americans drive on old Abrams and nothing.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and who claimed that Russia betrayed Ukraine, to which I poked you with my nose, that it was an independent one that went over to the Poles immediately after signing the reunification agreement?

                        betrayed betrayed nothing shy. and prove you have not proved anything.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and your armored personnel carriers 4 have already arrived, or are they still hanging out at sea?

                        no idea.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so hde betr?
                        how does this concern you?
                      22. +2
                        23 November 2013 21: 04
                        Quote: Kars
                        If you prove a fact, in theory it should be easy.

                        And what? You better confirm your words about the reduction of military appropriations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


                        hello kars!
                        did you read the article?
                        in all the news.
                        Ukraine - cuts, trims, closes.
                        show at least something
                        Quote: Kars
                        I argued that the Russian Federation squandered more of the legacy of the USSR than Ukraine.

                        and forgot to mention that the Russian Armed Forces are recovering, and the budget is growing.
                        Quote: Kars
                        betrayed betrayed nothing shy.

                        and there is really nothing to be ashamed of when they asked for protection, and then they betrayed Russia by participating in campaigns against Russia.
                        Now I understand the worthy predecessors of Mazepa and Bandera.

                        you should be proud of them.
                        Quote: Kars
                        no idea.
                        Quote: Rider
                        so hde betr?
                        how does this concern you?

                        Well, soooo !?
                        But what about the restoration and pride of an independent military-industrial complex?
                        you can at least one recent positive example can lead 7
                        otherwise it seems that the patient is more likely dead than alive.
                      23. +3
                        23 November 2013 16: 10
                        Quote: atalef
                        Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.

                        FACTS? !!!
                        where did you see FACTS in your posts?
                        it's me - YOU dunk in your own awkward examples and sent

                        and on Baikonur I already answered.

                        I just don’t keep up with you all.

                        in queue

                        in queue
                      24. -2
                        23 November 2013 16: 21
                        Quote: Rider
                        and on Baikonur I already answered.

                        Where?
                        Quote: Rider
                        this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.
                        and all you can do is sting each other like you ... more.

                        du ... dumka richer laughing
                      25. +1
                        23 November 2013 16: 30
                        Quote: atalef
                        Where?

                        above
                        Quote: atalef
                        du ... dumka richer

                        just do not need their own complexes.
                      26. wk-083
                        +2
                        23 November 2013 23: 50
                        Quote: Kars
                        As for frigates, there is no special need for them even in principle. Even cash is redundant.

                        Excuse me, how many excess frigates do you have?
                      27. +3
                        24 November 2013 00: 01
                        Quote: wk-083

                        Excuse me, how many excess frigates do you have?

                        ADYN, SAVSEM ADYN.
                        The flagship of the independent fleet Getman Sahaidachny.

                        somehow it went wrong with the rest, first the second sistership, they were preparing for the descent for 10 years, then for 12, now, it seems, they extended to 14.

                        but if Kars says - superfluous, then superfluous.

                        the glorious Cossack traditions will be revived, they will guard the coast on seagulls.

                        Basurman trembling - more Cossacks went camping.

                        all this is sad, I somehow asked him about the state of Nikolaev shipyards, and in response - silence.

                        everything is sad ... uh, it seems I already said that.
                      28. +2
                        24 November 2013 10: 23
                        Quote: Rider
                        the glorious Cossack traditions will be revived, they will guard the coast on seagulls.

                        do you think frigates for coastal defense?)))) Well, everything is clear with you.
                        Quote: Rider
                        all this is sad, I somehow asked him about the state of Nikolaev shipyards, and in response - silence.

                        I have? What do I have to do with it? I in Nikolaev even sometimes visit shipyards I have no relations. And there are still - while the military shipyards of Great Britain are closing.
                        so that everything in the world is relative. but you will become accused of blaming Ukraine for not building aircraft carriers for itself.
                      29. 0
                        24 November 2013 13: 07
                        Quote: Kars
                        do you think frigates for coastal defense?)))) Well, everything is clear with you

                        Yes to me, in principle, no matter why these boxes are intended.
                        but here’s a colleague wk-083 gave YOUR quote in which you declare YOUR ships redundant. here I’m priklolo, as the ONLY and even the FLAGMAN frigate can be EXTRA.

                        However, here I agree with you, Ukraine will soon and the army will be superfluous.
                        will cost cops and explosives.

                        and in the shipyards, I asked you in connection with the continuation of the construction of a series of frigates.

                        but since this ONE AND ONE-ONE is redundant, then ...

                        and aircraft carriers and Russia are not needed

                        but this is my purely ground opinion.
                      30. +2
                        24 November 2013 14: 00
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes to me, in principle, no matter why these boxes are intended.

                        it’s you so your incompetence in the simple matters of the fleet. What are you doing on Military Review?
                        Quote: Rider
                        here I’m priklolo, as the ONLY and even the FLAGMAN frigate can be EXTRA.

                        and what’s the flagship? this is not a design feature. Without Sagaidachnogo you can do it. Better is a couple of good patrol boats to protect the economic space from poachers and smugglers.
                        Quote: Rider
                        However, here I agree with you, Ukraine will soon and the army will be superfluous.
                        will cost cops and explosives.

                        It is already 22 years old has come, everything will not come.
                      31. +1
                        24 November 2013 14: 18
                        Quote: Kars
                        it's you so your incompetence in simple matters of the fleet

                        I'm not naval - I'm forgiven.
                        and YOU must admit that the NAVIGATION FLAGMAN IS NOT NECESSARY; it is to sign the insolvency of both the Ukrainian Navy and the state itself
                        Quote: Kars
                        It is already 22 years old has come, everything will not come.

                        Well, the wait is not long.
                        you have a situation: from - normal to bad, from bad to worse, from worst to default.

                        if you don’t give an IMF loan or Russia, what will you pay salaries and pensions for?
                        how much have your gold reserves declined there?

                        here it’s not like frigates, here tugs will soon become a joke.

                        seagulls is your fso
                      32. +2
                        24 November 2013 14: 40
                        Quote: Rider
                        I'm not naval - I'm forgiven.

                        not to know basic things is not attractive on the Military Review resource.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and YOU must admit that the NAVIGATION FLAGMAN IS NOT NEEDED
                        why are you clinging to this flagship? and the sagaidachny is basically not needed. unless to send pirates to hell
                        Quote: Rider
                        it is to sign the insolvency of both the Ukrainian Navy and the state itself

                        But is solvency measured by frigates or destroyers?
                        You would bring a logical chain of your thoughts in order to prove consistency, not consistency.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Well, the wait is not long.
                        you have a situation: from - normal to bad, from bad to worse, from worst to default.
                        Does it make you happy? And do not lie - from bad to normal, then worsened, then improved a little. Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good.

                        Quote: Rider
                        if you don’t give an IMF loan or Russia, what will you pay salaries and pensions for?
                        how much have your gold reserves declined there?
                        The same as now, despite the fact that Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF for a long time. Yes, and from Russia - the last ones related to gas, injection, etc.


                        Quote: Rider
                        here it’s not like frigates, here tugs will soon become a joke.

                        How happy this prospect is for you, I’m looking, you’re already a coward. But you won’t wait.
                      33. +1
                        24 November 2013 15: 10
                        Quote: Kars
                        not know basic things is not fascinating

                        I am a dry traveler, it is fascinating to me.
                        besides, I already told you, I PRINCIPLE do not care where your pelvis floats.
                        but it’s inexcusable to merge YOUR flagship and consider it unnecessary
                        Quote: Kars
                        But is solvency measured by frigates or destroyers?

                        with what ?
                        why do you need a fleet?
                        however, if Ukraine does NOT claim the title of a Black Sea power, then you are right; you do not need a fleet.
                        with which I congratulate you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good.

                        It would be nice to bring statistics.
                        and then the population is declining, incomes are falling, gold and foreign currency reserves - similarly.
                        so what remains?
                        loans and debts your FSE?
                        Well, of course, the pipe
                        (and FULL PIPE)
                        Quote: Kars
                        despite the fact that Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF for a long time.

                        but really wants to, and the only one who helped you is Russia again.
                        Quote: Kars
                        How happy this prospect is for you, I’m looking, you’re already a coward. But you won’t wait.

                        Yes, what am I doing here?
                        why is it I have to be cowardly when YOUR country is falling apart
                        Well, what about you do not wait, there is a curious material.

                        in connection with the postponement of Ukraine’s accession to the EU, one of your towns decided to do it on their own.
                        Ukrainian city decided to independently join the EU

                        http://oko-planet.su/politik/newsday/220202-ukrainskiy-gorod-reshil-samostoyatel

                        no-vstupit-v-es.html


                        Kiev no longer steers?
                        the beginning of the collapse?

                        your country, you worry about it.

                        I’ll just stock up on popcorn, but I’ll occasionally tease you
                      34. +1
                        24 November 2013 15: 24
                        Quote: Rider
                        I am a dry traveler, it is fascinating to me.

                        You hike just nobody.
                        Quote: Rider
                        besides, I already told you, I PRINCIPLE do not care where your pelvis floats.

                        you don’t worry, but you’re starting to write like me, and this is my trick)) and if you don’t care, then write something?
                        Quote: Rider
                        but it’s inexcusable to merge YOUR flagship and consider it unnecessary

                        You know that the flagship is not a specific ship? And it can be assigned? You’re no land marshal, you can’t catch up.
                        Quote: Rider
                        with what ?
                        Linear aircraft carriers))))

                        Quote: Rider
                        why do you need a fleet?
                        to protect territorial waters and the economic zone.

                        Quote: Rider
                        however, if Ukraine does NOT claim the title of Black Sea Power, then you are right,

                        What needs to be claimed for? Is the geographical position not enough?
                        Quote: Rider
                        It would be nice to bring statistics.

                        I spoke for the military component, all the same, the Military Review website.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and then the population is declining, incomes are falling, gold and foreign currency reserves - similarly.
                        Well, the Russian Federation is growing by emigrants and Muslims, incomes from someone are falling, from whom I am growing.
                        what is gold reserves I can’t guess in your interpretation.

                        Quote: Rider
                        loans and debts your FSE?

                        So they wrote as if the Russian Federation and the USA have no debts.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but really wants to, and the only one who helped you is Russia again.

                        If we really wanted to, we would go to the IMF conditions. And many who helped helped, Russia has tried only for its transit and that’s all.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes, what does it have to do with it?
                        So I think, maybe Ukraine offended you with something? Maybe someone beat you when you were in Ukraine?

                        Quote: Rider
                        Ukrainian city decided to independently join the EU

                        And how are you? Have you already accepted it?
                        Quote: Rider
                        I’ll just stock up on popcorn, but I’ll occasionally tease you

                        Are you like a fat clown? And jabbing is all that you can, and you don’t really get it. You disgrace yourself often and crap. And you could find what you’re doing, I’ve read a lot of information, I’d start to to understand, otherwise we’ll remain a fat overland nonsense, a shiver.
                      35. +3
                        24 November 2013 15: 49
                        Quote: Kars
                        You hike just nobody.

                        with insults, he begins to whom there is nothing more to say.
                        and your trick is Baltalogy and idle talk.
                        Quote: Kars
                        Do you know that the flagship is not a specific ship?

                        and how does that change what you think the frigate is NOT NECESSARY?
                        and the flagship can really be anything.
                        in the case of the Ukrainian Navy, a port tug.
                        Quote: Kars
                        what is gold reserves I can’t guess in your interpretation.
                        So they wrote as if the Russian Federation and the USA have no debts.

                        Gold and foreign exchange reserves - gold and foreign exchange reserves, which Ukraine is depleting just fill in the search for "Ukraine's gold and foreign exchange reserves have decreased" and your eyes will open (or maybe not)
                        Quote: Kars
                        And a lot of people helped,

                        who else ?
                        list these altruists.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And how are you? Have you already accepted it?

                        it is necessary for YOU to be interested, it is YOUR country, in parts, joining somewhere, now in the EU, then in ...
                        Quote: Kars

                        Are you a fat clown? And to tease is all that you can, and it’s not very good

                        and here is one more proof that when arguments end, insults begin.

                        poor little kaaars.
                        but how at all he puffed up at first, he considered himself cool.
                        But it turned out to be just a freak and a boor.

                        don’t get lost, I still want to laugh with you.
                      36. +1
                        24 November 2013 16: 08
                        Quote: Rider
                        with insults, he begins to whom there is nothing more to say.

                        It’s strange to hear this from constantly repeating oneself, I’m a hunter, I’m a hunter. And no one is on the campaign. Is this an insult?
                        Quote: Rider
                        and how does that change what you think the frigate is NOT NECESSARY?

                        this deprives you of the pleasure of repeating yourself and writing a flagship, a flagship)) and a frigate is not needed, especially one. I would either sell it or trade it for more useful things.

                        Quote: Rider
                        in the case of the Ukrainian Navy, a port tug.

                        if he is part of the Ukrainian Navy then why not,
                        Quote: Rider
                        go "and your eyes will open (or maybe not)

                        about gold-foreign exchange reserves is not news for me. and I personally think that money should work and not lie in reserves. Yes, and gold is a pretty useless metal.
                        Quote: Rider
                        who else ?
                        list these altruists.

                        about one more moment of logical blunder and bias. if you were not a bolobol you should prove that the Russian Federation credited Ukraine in altruistic impulses and there are no altruists in the business - the list is long - ask who buys Ukrainian bonds.
                        Quote: Rider
                        it is necessary for YOU to be interested, it is YOUR country, in parts, joining somewhere, now in the EU, then in ...

                        I’m not interested - since it’s impossible and inconsequential. It’s more interesting that in Kiev, on the Maidan, about 100 people have already gone for European integration.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and here is one more proof that when arguments end, insults begin.

                        what other arguments? pok root and sitting is the way to obesity and you said so trite about it - a campaign is your constant pastime.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but how at all he puffed up at first, he considered himself cool.
                        But it turned out to be just a freak and a boor

                        If it was written by someone important, and not a fat one -Brakhunets, I would be upset.
                        Quote: Rider
                        don’t get lost, I still want to laugh with you.
                        what are you leaving already?
                      37. +1
                        24 November 2013 16: 25
                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s strange to hear it from constantly repeating, I’m a hunter, I’m a hunter

                        Yes, I'm a trapper, and you are a hollow
                        Quote: Kars

                        if he is part of the Ukrainian Navy then why not,

                        right - the frigate is not needed, long live the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy tugboat No. 024.
                        thanks kars - have fun laughing
                        Quote: Kars
                        about another moment of logical blunder and bias.

                        First, give an example of assistance from other states.
                        so I'm waiting
                        who
                        when
                        how

                        or balabol again?

                        Kars burn more!
                        Quote: Kars
                        In Kiev, on the Maidan, about 100 people have already gone for European integration.

                        yes glad for you, there are already Polish plumbers in Germany, and what is your niche?
                        make ducks behind burghers?
                        worthy of an autonomous power.
                        Quote: Kars
                        what other arguments?

                        and really, what other arguments can you have?
                        only insults and blah blah blah

                        what's new commissioned in the navy - blah blah blah
                        what's new in the air force - blah blah blah
                        what's new adopted - blah blah blah
                        hde swim ukropechene ... uh armored personnel carriers and again DRAIN.

                        Are you a plumber by profession?
                        Then you have a place in the European Union

                        write ische, you amuse me.
                      38. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 16: 41
                        Sorry, but you are here Blah Blah Blah. or do you take lessons of trolling and Ukrainian-Europhobia? Outraged by your position.
                        Open the "white book" there must be submitted information on the size and quality of the Armed Forces.
                        Not only that, there are international guides like Jane to read there. in the end, your country also purchased a number of ATGMs. ... or is something wrong again?
                      39. +4
                        24 November 2013 16: 48
                        Quote: sapran
                        Sorry, but you are here. Blah Blah Blah

                        peregrine falcon, I ask Kars to fling FOR HIS OWN WORDS.
                        and if he is a man and not a hollow one, then let him do it.

                        no one pulled his tongue.

                        blurted out without thinking (because there is nothing) - let him answer.

                        but all that I hear is insults, and the sound of water being drained.

                        and trolling lessons, I give.
                        but ALL my opponents pass me exams.

                        and as you can see - in dad.
                      40. +2
                        24 November 2013 17: 00
                        Quote: Rider
                        no one pulled his tongue.

                        blurted out without thinking (because there is nothing) - let him answer


                        what exactly? where I didn’t answer for my words? you’re inventing a master, so I’m waiting for a quote of what I said.
                        Quote: Rider
                        and trolling lessons, I give.
                        but ALL my opponents pass me exams.

                        train on you
                      41. 0
                        24 November 2013 17: 11
                        Quote: Kars
                        what exactly? where I did not answer for my words?

                        how many new ships came in with troy,
                        how many planes, tanks.
                        who and how much helped Ukraine
                        what indicators are IMPROVED compared to 90s

                        that's all.
                      42. +1
                        24 November 2013 17: 24
                        Quote: Rider
                        that's all.

                        And I understand you're stupid))) Where is the May quote here? These are your wishes

                        Quote: Kars
                        And do not lie - from bad to normal, then it got worse, then it improved a bit. Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good

                        Here is my quote, and it is clear to any person that squabbles in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now better than in the 90s, when there were elementary problems with food, but you couldn’t remember about fuel and exercises)))

                        Quote: Rider
                        who and how much helped Ukraine

                        Quote: Kars
                        about one more moment of logical blunder and bias. if you were not a bolobol you should prove that the Russian Federation credited Ukraine in altruistic impulses and there are no altruists in the business - the list is long - ask who buys Ukrainian bonds.

                        What do you not understand here? Do you know what ablations are? The loan was from China
                        Quote: Rider
                        what indicators are IMPROVED compared to 90s

                        Yes, even a raid pilots. The number of exits to the sea of ​​ships. The number of exercises.
                      43. +3
                        24 November 2013 17: 33
                        Ale Kars, I asked to answer questions, and not to telepath with my tongue.

                        I repeat for the near and especially gifted

                        HOW MANY NEW SHIPS ARE INTRODUCED TO THE Navy OF Ukraine?

                        how many new planes

                        how many tanks

                        where are the armored personnel carriers

                        who and how helped Ukraine (except Russia)?

                        This is not the loan from China for which you leased him a piece of land?

                        by how much did the pilots increase and ship access to the sea

                        let's bring the FACTS.
                      44. +1
                        24 November 2013 17: 08
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes, I am a hunter

                        You are nobody, and you will come to terms with this.
                        Quote: Rider
                        right - the frigate is not needed, long live the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy tugboat No. 024.
                        thanks kars - have fun

                        What a distant and stupid person you are. A frigate is not needed. Tugs - we always have work, but you can make them flagships if you wish. And you can not do it. This is not a prerequisite.
                        Quote: Rider
                        yes glad for you, there are already Polish plumbers in Germany, and what is your niche?

                        What yes is there. I look at you plumbers and ducks are interested. Is life evidently connected with this?
                        Quote: Rider
                        what's new commissioned in the navy - blah blah blah
                        what's new in the air force - blah blah blah
                        what's new adopted - blah blah blah
                        hde swim ukropechene ... uh armored personnel carrier

                        And why these questions then? In the context of the discussion?
                        Did I undertake to answer them? This is despite the fact that I answered indirectly. For example, about armored personnel carriers - how much time has passed and there is no official Iraqi statement. Which in itself is strange if armored personnel carriers are not air-conditioned and the Iraqis have nothing to do with it.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Are you a plumber by profession?
                        Then you have a place in the European Union
                        By chance, no. And I can leave for the European Union at any time, I would have a desire. Like Switzerland, Israel and Australia.
                        Quote: Rider
                        write ische, you amuse me.
                        I’ll definitely write, you don’t slap the main thing from the fun monitor.
                      45. +2
                        24 November 2013 17: 19
                        Quote: Kars
                        You are nobody, and you will come to terms with this.

                        you yap and balabol, and you just confirmed it with your insults.
                        Quote: Kars
                        The frigate is not needed. The tugs - we always have work, but you can make them flagships if you wish.

                        Long live the aircraft carrier towing fleet of Ukraine
                        Kars - you're a clown, and I'm funny with you.
                        Quote: Kars
                        What yes there is

                        as I said - ducks are toilet bowls.
                        Quote: Kars
                        And why these questions then? In the context of the discussion?

                        to the fact that you bleated like in Russia no better than yours, that the army is not like that of the USSR
                        only now in the Russian Federation are introducing new weapons and you?

                        and in response - silence
                        Kars as always - merged
                        Quote: Kars
                        By chance, no. And I can leave for the European Union at any time, I would have a desire. Like Switzerland, Israel and Australia.

                        here one more Internet abramovich drew
                        and on the site every day you sit in between the bill of millions?

                        once again - the Baltun

                        so will you answer, or as usual telepathy language?
                      46. +1
                        24 November 2013 17: 32
                        Quote: Rider
                        We are yap and balabol, and I just confirmed it with my insults.

                        How is this interconnected? I just said the truth about you. And since it hurt you so much, it’s hit the nail on the head.
                        Quote: Rider
                        Long live the aircraft carrier towing fleet of Ukraine
                        Kars - you're a clown, and I'm funny with you.

                        Have you made up your mind? Why are you laughing with your stupor? By the way, the tugboat looked at you. What is a tugboat a useless ship?
                        Quote: Rider
                        to the fact that you bleated as in Russia is not better than yours
                        Can I quote?

                        Quote: Rider
                        the army is not like the USSR
                        only now in the Russian Federation are introducing new weapons and you?
                        and where do we come from? The Russian Federation squandered more Soviet power than Ukraine, and what it introduces there is laughter. For the state, it claims to be something like the Russian Federation


                        Quote: Rider
                        here one more Internet abramovich drew
                        where did you get it? That only Billionaires can leave Russia? There are no such problems from Ukraine, especially when there are relatives and friends in these countries.

                        Quote: Rider
                        so will you answer, or as usual telepathy language?

                        I already answered. But you have not proved why I should answer, and how does this relate to the topic?
                      47. 0
                        24 November 2013 17: 35
                        I will answer below
              2. +6
                23 November 2013 11: 15
                Where did the continuous radar field and the powerful network of airfields go, where are the atomic submarines?

                And in what range should the field be?
                where are the atomic submarines?

                They are on combat duty. New under construction. Slowly yes but under construction. Moreover, from the USSR there were so many heterogeneous submarines that read the land.
                where almost all the same 50 tanks

                What T-54-55-62? In the 90th year, we still had IS-2-3 T-10 if Che. Where do we need it.

                And yes, in aviation heaped even more than with a BTV. with one exception, the Su-17 and MiG-27 can be against the wall. And in Chechnya it was not the IBA that had to work, but the front-line aviation.
                1. +2
                  23 November 2013 13: 14
                  But for the Su-17 and MiG-27 respectable marshals who are now giving an interview and shouting that Serdyukov ruined the aircraft, it would be necessary to ask whose order was fulfilled !!!!
                  1. 0
                    24 November 2013 10: 49
                    And the truth - such a cool fighter-bomber as the MiG-27 was completely in vain excluded
                2. +1
                  23 November 2013 15: 36
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  And in what range should the field be?

                  continuous)))))) and what is this for the manner of quoting without a name?

                  Quote: leon-iv
                  Carry combat duty

                  the USSR smetsa over these combat duty and intensity.
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  Moreover, from the USSR there were so many heterogeneous submarines that read the land.

                  So you also finish building the USSR
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  What T-54-55-62? In the 90th year, we still had IS-2-3 T-10 if Che. Where do we need it.

                  And these are my problems? The USSR was needed, and you shamefully merge. And when Ukraine writes off or sells surplus armored vehicles, you cry about the loss of combat capability. Yes, and the great RF replaced by how many hundreds of tens of thousands of those written off?
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  . And in Chechnya it was not the IBA that had to work, but the front-line aviation.

                  And this is generally a disgrace, the Soviet Union did not fight like that after the civil war.
              3. +2
                23 November 2013 15: 51
                Well, let's write such an article, only how will it help Ukraine, where weakening is ten times greater and no change is expected, while the Russian army is now on the rise?
                1. +1
                  23 November 2013 16: 08
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Well, let's write such an article, only how it will help Ukraine, r

                  ???????
                  Do you think that this article is something to someone (except for those who like to sympathize with Ukraine for citizens of neighboring countries)
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  while the Russian army is on the rise?
                  Let the Chinese think about it, well, Russian taxpayers.
                  1. +3
                    23 November 2013 17: 47
                    What do you want to prove to me? That in the Russian Federation is still collapsed? However, the Russian Federation has received about 500 new T-90s for all the time, and, most likely, it will still receive when the noise around the "Armata" subsides, and there will be no particular result, since it cannot be obtained in such a short time, successfully conducts replacement and modernization of armored vehicles, and hundreds and thousands, even if it goes through all sorts of T-72B3. What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?
                    The Russian Air Force received or will receive under firm contracts, but in fact they can be concluded:
                    1) 108 modern Su-30СМ and Su-35 fighters. Term 2015.
                    2) 20 Su-30М2, apparently to replace the Su-27UB and 12 Su-27СМ3 (cars from the Chinese backlog)
                    3) 124 Su-34 to 2020, the first 2 squadrons are already on alert.
                    4) 60-70 Mi-28Н, 140 Ka-52, 49 Mi-35.
                    5) 65 Yak-130.
                    Repair and modernization like 55 machines under the Su-27СМ program, or I don’t think of any MiG-31BN, plus a bunch of transporters.
                    Ukraine? 0.0 new aircraft.

                    What else to continue? Tired of your tale that since you have a madhouse in Ukraine, then in Russia it is supposedly even worse. Shchaz. Not everything is perfect here, but the Limitrof will never live better than the Empire.
                    1. roller2
                      0
                      23 November 2013 17: 59
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?

                      You are a little bit in size. Ukraine is 20 times smaller and according to your words it has delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

                      No need for fairy tales about the plight of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (how do you know where you live, where?)
                      Yes, there is little new, but Russia is in no hurry to buy the T-90 for some reason, it will upgrade the old T-72.
                      1. maxvet
                        +5
                        23 November 2013 19: 17
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Ukraine is 20 times smaller, and according to your words, it delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

                        but let's compare the territories suitable for living, or the population, or population density per sq. km. And it seems to you that if Russia is 20 times larger than Ukraine in terms of area, then the production potential is more than 20 times, and this is far from the case. IMHO
                      2. roller2
                        -2
                        23 November 2013 19: 26
                        Quote: maxvet
                        let's compare habitable territories, or population, or population density per sq. km

                        that is, you will not defend the uninhabited territory?
                      3. maxvet
                        +4
                        23 November 2013 19: 30
                        there is a difference between uninhabited and unsuitable for life, and even calculate the logistics-the average distance between Ukrainian cities and Russian (you can also talk about the northern delivery with all the consequences, but the Siberians will tell me better about this)
                      4. +1
                        23 November 2013 20: 54
                        Quote: maxvet
                        there is a difference between uninhabited and uninhabitable,

                        and natural resources like?
                      5. maxvet
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 21: 05
                        in the count, but again, the population of Russia is not 20 times the population of Ukraine, while it’s practically impossible to live on very large areas — in the best case, just extract natural resources. You can compare the northern territories of Russia with Alaska and Canada — there I think this is same as in Russia (there’s just no China nearby, although you yourself remind about Kars of China) And in large territories except permafrost nothing was found
                      6. +2
                        23 November 2013 19: 35
                        Quote: rolik2
                        that is, you will not defend the uninhabited territory?

                        that is, the army is directly dependent on the number of people.
                        and we will protect everything (although God will give it, we won’t have to)
                      7. maxvet
                        +3
                        23 November 2013 19: 19
                        Quote: rolik2
                        You are a little bit in size. Ukraine is 20 times smaller and according to your words it has delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

                        I will add, there was no war on the territory of Ukraine (and thank God)
                      8. maxvet
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 20: 39
                        Quote: rolik2
                        . Ukraine is 20 times smaller and, according to your words, delivered 100 tanks to its troops and Russia 500

                        and let's compare the size of Ukraine and the size of Thailand? (I mean the fact that there and there Ukrainian armored vehicles)
                      9. 0
                        24 November 2013 18: 27
                        Just a mess at a neighbor warms the soul of the Russian Svidomo worse than two bourgeois.
                        We are the same in all countries like no one else - the main thing is that the neighbor should be worse.
                    2. +1
                      23 November 2013 20: 52
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      However, the Russian Federation for the whole time received about 500 new T-90s, and, most likely, will still receive

                      And wrote off 30)) and China received more modern tanks.
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?

                      Why do we need it? We don’t pretend to be world leaders, we don’t have borders with dangerous countries. And we have much more military power than Romania.
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      Repair with modernization like 55 cars under the Su-27SM program

                      And it will not reach the number of aircraft in the USSR.
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      Tired of your tale that since you have a madhouse in Ukraine, then in Russia it is supposedly even worse

                      You are not just a madhouse, but complete stability.
                      1. maxvet
                        0
                        23 November 2013 21: 09
                        Kars - the last bald fangs would be to face laughing
              4. 0
                23 November 2013 22: 30
                Those Soviet tanks are already quite old, but we don’t finish them - we rivet Almaty and PAK FA, in the future - PAK DA and the newest carrying cruisers. The submarine fleet is developing a lot - Varshavyanki is being reconstructed, Boreas and Yaseni are being built. The situation is still far from ideal but we are still moving in the right direction
                1. +3
                  23 November 2013 22: 54
                  Quote: Basarev
                  Those Soviet tanks are already quite old, but we don’t finish them - we rivet Almaty and PAK FA,


                  5 units of pack fa and armata that no one has seen so far Do you call riveting? Listen less to Rogozin and try to look into reality with your own eyes, not Rogozin and K
                  1. 0
                    24 November 2013 10: 58
                    Rogozin’s words are more authoritative than Ear Matza’s speculation
              5. sasska
                +1
                25 November 2013 00: 53
                How much of the Russian Federation squandered the wealth of the USSR.

                can you tell me, how much did Ukraine get from the former might of the Soviet Armed Forces, science and industry? and even more interesting, how much during the period of "independence" Ukraine was able (on its own!) to preserve and increase?

                old anecdote: "Ukrainian geologists have discovered an oil field on the territory of Ukraine.
                Oil production for the state was complicated by the high speed of transit oil trains from Russia to Europe. "
              6. 0
                26 November 2013 14: 32
                Do you think that the tank and the nuclear submarine have the same resource and the possibility of modernization, why compare the nuclear submarines and tanks?
            2. +4
              23 November 2013 11: 06
              Quote: seasoned
              So far, enough to turn the USA and Europe into dust. It’s good that we have already stopped with the technique of 3 or 5 times destroying all life on the planet ...

              And why is this for Ukraine?
            3. sasska
              +2
              25 November 2013 00: 31
              "older brother" will always help if "younger and pockmarked" stop shitting under the door.

              IMHO, no more
          2. +1
            23 November 2013 15: 47
            There are no small and efficient armies.
            1. Akim
              +5
              23 November 2013 15: 53
              Quote: EvilLion
              There are no small and efficient armies.

              It happens. Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism.
              1. +4
                23 November 2013 17: 28
                What is it? Is it okay that in a big war the “maxims” and the shooter in general play a relatively small role in comparison with artillery, which, by the way, easily copes with “maxims”? And who do you think will win if the level of training and equipment of both opponents is the same? And nothing that regulations operate with the concept of troop density?
                1. Akim
                  +1
                  23 November 2013 17: 56
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  And who do you think will win if the level of training and equipment of both opponents is the same?

                  A commander who correctly operates with this very charter.
                  As for automatic CO, then from it the greatest human losses.
                  1. -2
                    23 November 2013 21: 25
                    The answer is incorrect, the army with the larger numbers will win.
                    1. Akim
                      +2
                      23 November 2013 21: 48
                      Quote: EvilLion
                      more army will win

                      Well, if as in the days of the Second World War. Almost all 37-39 professionals were arrested or shot, and the Germans were stopped in millions of lives and until they learned how to fight in order to rot the brown plague - of course.
                  2. +1
                    24 November 2013 15: 43
                    Quote: Akim
                    As for automatic CO, then from it the greatest human losses

                    The biggest losses from mortars, especially shell-shocked and wounded. This is me at the institute for military field surgery.
              2. Hudo
                +1
                23 November 2013 18: 05
                Quote: Akim
                Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism


                Since the appearance of "Maxim", the number of "Maxims" per km began to play a greater role. front. Sorry for the tautology. But God remained on the side of the one who has more battalions, this time battalions with "Maxims". And in general, compare strength и professionalism, This is an attempt to compare the speed of the passenger train with the number of pages in the book.
                1. Akim
                  +1
                  23 November 2013 18: 13
                  Quote: Hudo
                  And in general, to compare the number and professionalism, this is an attempt to compare the speed of the passenger express train with the number of pages in the book.

                  Once on trains means trains. It’s the same as whether you put a graduate of a technical school on Sapsan or a professional on a regular passenger electric locomotive. The first one will naturally reach faster, but the second time it may not lead. So it is here.
                  1. Hudo
                    +2
                    23 November 2013 18: 35
                    You perfectly understood what I mean. A larger army has wider opportunities for self-realization, opportunities to prove oneself, career (yes, every normal company commander does not want to sit in this position until gray temples), training, etc.
                    For example, the crew of the submarine "Zaporozhye" has no one to learn from (unlike the submarine formation), there is no rotation of personnel, and so on. Well, at the end, "professionalism" is steadily tending to zero. In other types of troops, the same picture only with its own nuances, only the scale is different, and the negative is the same.
                    1. Akim
                      +1
                      23 November 2013 18: 54
                      Quote: Hudo
                      . In other types of troops, the same picture only with its own nuances, only the scale is different, but the negative is the same.

                      I won’t touch the submarine - it’s a sore subject, and besides, I’m not one of the swimmers. As for the land. It’s as if you don’t know that a large mass of people are sitting in their unit jumping from one landing to another. If you are lucky without a higher military, you can safely reach the underground or the major will rise. And Zhinka at hand and communication and you know your town and everyone knows you. There were approximately 100 lieutenants in my release. A third quit. Three people decided to master the Adjuncture or the Academy of the General Staff. On the 10th anniversary there were even captains. Temporal romance is long gone.
                      1. Hudo
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 19: 03
                        Quote: Akim
                        As for the land. It’s as if you don’t know that a large mass of people are sitting in their unit jumping from one landing to another. If you are lucky without a higher military, you can safely reach the underground or the major will rise.

                        So I tell you about the perniciousness of this. In one place it is dense, in another it is empty, therefore the absence of "Varangians" has undoubtedly disastrous consequences, especially in numerous, in comparison with other dry islands. - any swamp is famous only for rotten water.
              3. maxvet
                +1
                23 November 2013 19: 42
                Quote: Akim
                It happens. Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism.

                probably this axiom works when one side has MaxIm and the other doesn't
                To all your questions
                we have one answer
                we have a machine gun
                you don't have it
                English folk war folklore
                1. Akim
                  +1
                  23 November 2013 19: 53
                  Quote: maxvet
                  probably this axiom works when one side has MaxIm and the other doesn't

                  In 1 MV everyone had and there they realized that they only lay people in vain when machine guns were on the flanks. But until the tank appeared, there was no other alternative to infantry attacks.
                  1. maxvet
                    +1
                    23 November 2013 20: 42
                    Quote: Akim
                    In 1 MV everyone had and there they realized that they only lay people sp

                    and what year did they understand? According to the actions of all parties, it seems like they didn’t understand it (it’s not just about machine guns, but also about quick-firing artillery, magazine rifles, etc.)
                  2. 0
                    23 November 2013 21: 27
                    Nonsense, artillery cleaned everything up, the tank only increased the speed of the operation, the PMV positional dead ends, this is when the artillery hits for a week and during that time reinforcements are brought up.
                2. +1
                  23 November 2013 20: 57
                  Quote: maxvet
                  English folk war folklore

                  We have a clear answer to any of your questions: we have a machine gun, but you don’t have one. Rudyard Kipling.
                  1. maxvet
                    0
                    23 November 2013 21: 12
                    Quote: Kars

                    We have a clear answer to any of your questions: we have a machine gun, but you don’t have one. Rudyard Kipling.

                    I see I read in another translation, and there the author was not indicated, but I will take into account hi
            2. 0
              23 November 2013 22: 34
              Quote: EvilLion
              There are no small and efficient armies.


              It happens and it happens. A large number is not a guarantee of victory.
              1. 0
                24 November 2013 11: 06
                Therefore, probably, the operation Eagle Claw ended in a humiliating failure
            3. -1
              24 November 2013 18: 31
              Remind Finnish?
          3. +2
            23 November 2013 21: 55
            Quote: Kars
            Nuclear submarines also got all of the Russian Federation.

            And who else could they get?
            With a certain amount of irony, of course, one can imagine a "picture" of the presence of multipurpose and strategic nuclear submarines in the Caspian Sea near Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, as well as in the Black Sea near Georgia and Ukraine ...
            But for this you need to have more! "TU"fantasy.
            It is logical that the most complicated structure of the Soviet Navy remained THERE,WHERE and there were conditions for its operation and subsequent disposal.

            Caesar's Caesarean ...
            1. +1
              23 November 2013 22: 01
              Quote: Corsair
              Caesar's Caesarean ...

              Then do not feel sick about the Tu-160 and the aircraft carrier with the Cruiser. As the map lay down.

              And I would not give up Pike B in the Black Sea.
              But with what, for example, did Kazakhstan compensate for the nuclear submarines? Or did Kazakhstan do not contribute to the construction? Or Belarus?
              1. +3
                23 November 2013 22: 38
                Quote: Kars
                Then do not feel sick about the Tu-160 and the aircraft carrier with the Cruiser. As the map lay down.

                And I would not give up Pike B in the Black Sea.

                American map? Do you mean the process of destruction by Ukraine of the latest aircraft of the USSR Air Force for American money and in the same interests?
                Here, for sure: "And he himself is not GAM, and I WILL NOT GIVE to another"

                Ukraine cannot "fit" the ex- "Admiral Lobov" (present "Ukraine") into the format of the Ukrainian Navy.
                And what about the nuclear submarine fleet ...

                For statements like these you need a solid idea of ​​what INFRASTRUCTURE is for ensuring the combat effectiveness and operation of nuclear submarines.

                I remember when I was still president L.D. Kuchma, regarding Ukraine's capabilities in maintaining strategic nuclear weapons and means of their delivery, said: "As a person who has worked in this area for a long time, I RESPONSIBLY DECLARE that Ukraine does not have the ability to maintain nuclear weapons." ...

                But nuclear submarines, even multi-purpose ones, you know, will probably be more difficult to operate.

                And in addition, Ukraine conducted research on the operating conditions of nuclear power plants in the environment of hydrogen sulfide depths of the Black Sea, its temperature regimes?

                And about the "compensation." Do you want (or wanted) the process of "divorce" of the republics of the former USSR to stretch over many decades and be accompanied by dramatic events?

                Let's agree: NO ONE NEEDS ANYTHING (from the property of the USSR).
                Stop dragging the same "skeleton out of the closet" ...
                1. +1
                  24 November 2013 10: 32
                  Quote: Corsair
                  American map?

                  Russian stupidity and greed.

                  Quote: Corsair
                  Ukraine the latest aircraft of the USSR Air Force for American money and in the same interests?

                  According to the doctrine and international treaties, such planes cannot be kept in Ukraine, spare parts remained in the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation refused to buy them, so it was only a plus that they at least earned something. Unfortunately, sale to third countries was impossible.
                  Quote: Corsair
                  Ukraine cannot "fit" the ex- "Admiral Lobov" (present "Ukraine") into the format of the Ukrainian Navy.
                  And what about the nuclear submarine fleet ...

                  Well, your limitations showed itself again - to compare the rather useless killer of aircraft carriers, without the ROCKETs that remained with the Russian Federation with a multipurpose torpedo submarine.

                  Quote: Corsair
                  As a person who has worked in this field for a long time, I RESPONSIBLY DECLARE - Ukraine does not have the ability to maintain nuclear weapons "...

                  But do we contain nuclear reactors? Yes, and they could contain mine ICBMs for about 20-40 years. How did Yuzhmash stay on our territory. And a handful said that the international community, which did not want to expand the nuclear club, had sufficient leverage.
                  Quote: Corsair
                  Do you want (or wanted) the process of the "divorce" of the republics of the former USSR to stretch over many decades and be accompanied by dramatic events?

                  And what could be excuses on the part of the Russian Federation against the background of greed? And it is quite possible that the legacy of the USSR would be divided honestly.
                  Quote: Corsair
                  Let's agree: NO ONE NEEDS ANYTHING (from the property of the USSR).
                  In principle, I’m not against it, but for some reason the majority of Russian chauvinists think that everyone around should owe the RF.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. -1
                    24 November 2013 12: 29
                    Quote: Kars
                    And mine ICBMs would be able to contain 20-40 years.

                    All questions to Kuchma.
                    I see an expert from you as ...
                    1. +1
                      24 November 2013 12: 32
                      Quote: Corsair
                      All questions to Kuchma.
                      I see an expert from you as ..

                      I have no questions for Kuchma.
                      And Ukraine could be able to contain mine ICBMs. The Russian Federation has not yet changed all the missiles delivered from the USSR. According to the Bch, the question is of course different. But I have no confidence.
                      1. +1
                        24 November 2013 12: 37
                        Quote: Kars
                        I have no questions for Kuchma.

                        The Americans at that time had a very big question for Kuchma.
                        Stay with Ukraine's nuclear weapons and ICBMs, will it not act in a unified manner, at the same time with the Russian Federation? At that time, the amers did not have confidence in this, therefore they decided to insure themselves, "brought" Ukraine to a nuclear-free status ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        Here I have no confidence.

                        Everything is on the road: Not sure, don't scam!
                      2. +1
                        24 November 2013 12: 50
                        Quote: Corsair
                        The Americans at that time had a very big question for Kuchma.

                        And not only Americans. After all, there is 4 in the world a nuclear arsenal.
                        Quote: Corsair
                        Remain in Ukraine with nuclear weapons and ICBMs, will it not act in a single vein, along with the Russian Federation

                        NDA you turn out to be even dumber than I thought. Did you still export the warheads to the Russian Federation? If necessary, the carriers would be taken out))) So you wrote nonsense, think of something else.
                        Quote: Corsair
                        Everything is on the road: Not sure, don't scam!

                        So I have no confidence, and in Ukraine there were enough nuclear cheeks.

                        Quote: alex13-61
                        Quote: Kars
                        Russian stupidity and greed.
                        This is rudeness, dear.

                        A statement of facts, and the truth. And you can perceive how you please, and your respect is not necessary to me9 this is so noted)
                  3. +1
                    24 November 2013 12: 47
                    Quote: Kars
                    Russian stupidity and greed.

                    This is rudeness, dear.
        2. +6
          23 November 2013 11: 04
          Quote: seasoned
          Andrey, here you are wrong. Russia has nuclear weapons left and here .. how many tanks, planes and ships were cut.

          Then why do the rest?
          And in my opinion, Ukraine is doing everything right. She does not pretend to be a world power. To threaten - no one is threatening her; why is it unknown with anyone to ruin money in an incomprehensible scribble with pussy? A small professional army, the rest are border guards and explosives --- quite enough. Absolutely reasonable answer to the challenges at the present stage. And grandmothers - as long as you don’t tack in the army - will always seem small. Until that happens. what happened to the USSR — exorbitant expenditures on armaments — is one of the main reasons for the collapse of the country. They themselves have been stolen by their weapons.
          1. +1
            23 November 2013 11: 09
            Quote: atalef
            Then why do the rest?

            Plusanul and I think that you explained everything correctly hi
          2. +4
            23 November 2013 11: 28
            Quote: atalef
            And in my opinion, Ukraine is doing everything right. She does not pretend to be a world power. To threaten - no one is threatening her; why is it unknown with anyone to ruin money in an incomprehensible scribble with pussy? A small professional army, the rest are border guards and explosives --- quite enough

            As the leader of the world proletariat said: "True in form, but in essence a mockery!"
            Of course, a measure is needed in any business. But, effective "a small professional army" is also very difficult and ... expensive. Russia has already faced this problem in full growth.
            And now there are no threats, tomorrow there are, and the infrastructure, mob. no resources. and you can't create them quickly. And society can be brought to such "tolerance" that military service will not be the duty of all real men, but the lot of specially hired "special heroes". Then write wasted.
            1. Akim
              +1
              23 November 2013 12: 33
              Quote: Alekseev
              But, an effective "small professional army" is also very difficult and ... expensive. Russia has already faced this problem in full growth.

              And an urgent year is more expensive. As for mob reserves, they will always be + reservists also sign a contract.
              1. 0
                23 November 2013 12: 49
                Quote: Akim
                And an urgent year is more expensive.

                A year of urgency, at least at a military military school, it should be a year of training. But after either a stock or a contract.
                Quote: Akim
                As for mob reserves, they will always be + reservists also sign a contract.

                There will be some, but what kind of quantity and quality?
                1. Akim
                  +1
                  23 November 2013 13: 00
                  Quote: Alekseev
                  but what kind of quantity and quality?

                  Do you think those who have passed a year of urgency and called up after 10 years for training camps are a normal soldier?
                  It was very funny when a 40-year-old "partisan" tries to slip through the gunner's hatch.
          3. Onyx
            0
            23 November 2013 18: 01
            Quote: atalef
            Then why do the rest?

            And you read the doctrine of the use of nuclear weapons Rossi and understand why everything else.
            Quote: atalef
            Until that happens. what happened to the USSR — exorbitant expenditures on armaments — is one of the main reasons for the collapse of the country. They themselves have been stolen by their weapons.

            And here the costs of weapons and the collapse of the country. Countries do not break up due to high costs
      2. +3
        23 November 2013 11: 05
        [quote = Kars] I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. / quote]
        Who would doubt that! laughing
        Better than you, no one can sing "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise ...!",
        in relation to the realities of Ukrainian life, the army and the defense industry.
        Unlike the "broad" "paper-network" urya-patriots who love to promote dubious accomplishments during the "independence", most of the colleagues on this military-patriotic site do not hesitate to discuss the problems and even "ulcers" of the development of the Russian Armed Forces without reassuring themselves by that somewhere, they say, things are even worse! wassat
        Yes, and [quote = Kars] the former power [/ quote] was not request, like the Russian Federation, like Ukraine. The Soviet Union had.
        And, no matter how hard it is for you to admit it request Despite all the "filthiness", there are very significant shifts in increasing the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces and restoring the work of the military-industrial complex in the Russian Federation. Russia, nevertheless, needs a strong army and navy, in contrast to a number of countries that do not have "external" enemies. (But as for the internal ones, this is unlikely ...)
      3. Akim
        +2
        23 November 2013 12: 20
        Quote: Kars
        I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation

        Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!
        1. +3
          23 November 2013 12: 58
          Quote: Akim
          Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!

          Dear, AKIM! sho you are so fed up with Russia! hi
          1. Akim
            +4
            23 November 2013 13: 16
            Quote: Far East
            Dear, AKIM! sho you are so fed up with Russia

            I AM? Yes, God forbid. I throw myself at all like that at the Poles and the French and the English speakers. Just, if you don’t know, ask. And r with frantic incomprehensible criticism rush forward all the more. And since Ukraine is bilingual, naturally most hang out on such sites. And even the Poles would be outraged that they say na Ukraine.
            1. +1
              23 November 2013 14: 17
              Quote: Akim
              I AM? Yes, God forbid. I rush everyone like that

              I understood you! I just feel sorry for ALL of us! there was one PEOPLE! right now ..... even the words NO! hi
              1. Akim
                +2
                23 November 2013 14: 26
                Quote: Far East
                there was one PEOPLE! right now ..... even the words NO!

                Was. But time is running out. It's too late to look for who is to blame. My "transitional" generation does not gravitate towards Russia, and those who were born already in independent Ukraine and even more so.
                1. +1
                  23 November 2013 14: 52
                  Quote: Akim
                  ... My "transitional" generation does not gravitate towards Russia, and those who were born already in independent Ukraine and even more so.

                  and I was that year in Zhytomyr where I served! and sho then the normul treated me and the guys (children) of my co-workers communicated with the guys, and there’s NO affection whatsoever! everyone says sho government is! with us (you) hi
                  1. Akim
                    +2
                    23 November 2013 15: 03
                    Quote: Far East
                    and not any kind of no affection!

                    Many do not, including mine. But these are two different countries and Russia will never be my homeland a mixture of the USSR. Here is what you just need to understand.
                    1. 0
                      24 November 2013 11: 49
                      Quote: Akim
                      But these are two different countries and Russia will never be my homeland a mixture of the USSR. Here is what you just need to understand.

                      dear, Akim! how to understand two different "countries" I would understand you if you were 15 years old! sorry nothing bad in your direction! my opinion: this is how you, thinking out loud, convey hatred of Russia! your younger citizens hi
                      1. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 11: 53
                        Why HATE? what is the logic ?! if there is an elementary concept related to the HOMELAND? What principle, if not dreams, then against us !!!
                      2. 0
                        24 November 2013 12: 02
                        read the posts: I apologize for what Motherland! 1000 years with a hook were together Homeland was one! and then some ..idor ruined. (your) sneak took power in his hands! and doesn’t want to let her go (power)
                        Quote: sapran
                        What principle, if not dreams, then against us !!!
                        with such thinking WE will go far! hi
                      3. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 12: 17
                        I fully understand the people who lived well under the USSR, but here they seem to have lost their bearings. For them, this is probably a reason for a corkscrew and "blinking".
                        Me and my family somehow remember the USSR ... in general, better than in the 90s, but worse than today. Tell me why me and my family have the USSR? I saw other people, with a different mentality I saw where it is good and where it is even worse, where is wealth and where is poverty. I am not interested in the fables of the "hurray-patriots" of both countries with accusations of the bad life of their neighbors. Have your own hands and a head --- if you want to live - WORK ON IT !!! no one else will help you and your family in this!
                      4. 0
                        24 November 2013 12: 53
                        Quote: sapran
                        I am not interested in the fables of the "hurray-patriots" of both countries with accusations of the bad life of their neighbors. Have your own hands and a head --- if you want to live - WORK ON IT !!! no one else will help you and your family in this!

                        my dear Ukrainians! how can you divide the non-divisible! just do not have to write, Shaw Ukrainian., was an independent state. how is KIEVSKAYA-RUSSIA! two in one: Akim are recruiting you Ross., politicians? I didn’t understand what kind of an advantage this is! hi
                      5. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 13: 27
                        I can’t draw a fine line, but we are really a bit different. We left one font, but each went our own path.
                      6. 0
                        24 November 2013 13: 34
                        Quote: sapran
                        We left one font, but each went our own path.

                        it's like: there were only parents! Divorced divided us. sister stayed with Mom brother with Dad! hi
                      7. 0
                        24 November 2013 13: 38
                        An old friend is better than two new ones.....
                      8. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 15: 55
                        This is the type of Czechs Slovaks Serbs Belarusians Russians and Ukrainians common Slavic root.
                      9. Akim
                        +1
                        24 November 2013 12: 42
                        Yeah
                        Quote: Far East
                        how to understand two different "countries"


                        I had the homeland of the USSR. Born in Ukraine, lived in the Ukrainian SSR. The Soviet Union unfortunately did not. My Homeland was gone, but the land on which it grew remained. And I live in Ukraine. Why ask, should I give Russia an edge in politics?
                        And absolutely no hatred

                        You have your own fairy tale, we have our own (the housekeeper Kuzya).
        2. +2
          23 November 2013 14: 01
          Quote: Akim
          Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!

          And what, there has never been criticism of the Russian army and the state, and Putin on this site?
          Or only he who has ears hears? Yes
          1. Akim
            +2
            23 November 2013 14: 21
            Quote: Alekseev
            And what, there has never been a criticism of the Russian army and state,

            In the articles? did not see. Maybe I missed it. Here, Serdyukov was run many times.
      4. +3
        23 November 2013 15: 38
        Quote: Kars
        I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation

        There is nothing to argue about, the first years after the collapse of the Soviet Socialist Republic are very similar. Armies degraded in both countries.
        But now the difference is huge. If Ukraine is happy to report on two of the repaired aircraft, then the supply of 10 new, only one brand to Russia, is already causing shouts: "Not enough." If the articles on VO tell you what the Ukrainian designers from the military-industrial complex have come up with, then the articles about the military-industrial complex of Russia are more like reports, what has been delivered and what else should be delivered. And so on for all types of weapons ...
        1. roller2
          0
          23 November 2013 15: 44
          Quote: Russ69
          But now the difference is huge.


          You know, it's funny to read the arguments about the Ukrainian army of a person who did not serve in it, who did not see everything from the inside, but who leads articles of dubious origin. Reading your reasoning about the fact that the Ukrainian army died, I want to ask "what am I serving in some other Ukrainian army ?? Why is everything different with us? And not how you write about that ??"
          1. +3
            23 November 2013 20: 49
            [quote = rolik2] You know it’s funny to read the arguments about the Ukrainian army of a man who did not serve in it, who did not see everything from the inside [/ quote]
            What does the article have to do with it, there are many articles, both laudatory and critical. there are objective data on the arrival of new weapons, the number of exercises and other things.
            [/ quote] Reading your arguments about the fact that the Ukrainian army died [/ quote]
            I didn’t say a word that she died, I just said that her condition does not cause positive emotions.
            1. roller2
              0
              23 November 2013 20: 58
              Quote: Russ69
              there are objective data on the arrival of new weapons, the number of exercises and other things.


              Where do you get this data?
              Here, from November 1 to the end of the year, we plan to replace more than 500 satellite communication stations (I have accurate data on replacing 87 stations at 5 military units for unbelievers from Monday I can check out the start-up acts)

              Do you have such information ????? Not everything that is being done here falls on the pages of print media.
              1. 0
                23 November 2013 21: 32
                Contracts for the supply of weapons and major exercises are not hiding now. That's when all this will be an absolute routine, at least motor transport, shooting, then it will be possible not to write in the news.
              2. 0
                23 November 2013 22: 04
                Quote: rolik2
                From November 1 to the end of the year, we plan to replace more than 500 satellite communication stations

                For God's sake, nothing wrong. Only new satellite stations give the result in a compartment with the re-equipment of everything else.
                1. roller2
                  +1
                  23 November 2013 22: 12
                  And what do you know about the rest ??
                  What will be published in the press ??
                  More than a dozen mil. Dollars were spent on creating the communications system of our troops. at the moment, Russia does not have such a system in any kind of army, so it’s not correct to judge the development of troops by scribbles on the Internet.
                  1. +1
                    23 November 2013 22: 30
                    Quote: rolik2
                    More than a dozen mil. Dollars were spent on creating the communications system of our troops. at the moment, Russia does not have such a system in any kind of army, so it’s not correct to judge the development of troops by scribbles on the Internet.

                    Let’s not measure our pussy, whose connection is steeper ... The military-industrial complex of Russia and Ukraine is based on one school and there is no fundamental difference. I doubt that there will be many differences. And it enters the Russian army, enough. Plus new complexes are being tested.
                    Despite the scribbles, I doubt that the supply of new weapons to the troops is so secret in Ukraine. With regards to expensive equipment, it is still heard about the repair and extension of service life. But this is not forever, it may continue ....
                2. Hudo
                  0
                  23 November 2013 22: 16
                  Quote: Russ69
                  Only new satellite stations give the result in a compartment with the re-equipment of everything else.


                  Whose satellites do these stations work with? Will it not turn out that in the case of the next O. Zmeiny or something else, which will appeal to the "disinterested" Euro-partners, nenka will swell the hair on the back of the neck, and this connection will be screwed to her right there. In order not to dare and look askance at the thieving Euro-homos who imagine themselves to be supermen.
                  1. roller2
                    +1
                    23 November 2013 22: 36
                    Quote: Hudo
                    look askance at the thievish Euro-homos imagining themselves superhuman.

                    You are not tired of carrying this nonsense ??
                    Your MO announced a tender for the purchase of personal satellite telephones for its generals, and you play patriots here.
      5. 0
        23 November 2013 15: 49
        Even half of the Soviet army of the Russian Federation would not have drawn, but, as it were, 1kk army with 140k population, this is quite decent, and 200k with 40k population, this is second class, but 70 will be, this is no longer an army after the fact.
        Amount of arms supplies will be considered?
    5. 0
      27 November 2013 20: 16
      I don’t make any difference between Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians.
  2. +13
    23 November 2013 08: 40
    As Zadornov said, the mosh of the Ukrainian army has long turned into its power ...
    1. Akim
      +3
      23 November 2013 12: 37
      Quote: Old_Kapitan
      the mosh of the Ukrainian army has long turned into its power ..

      In fact, he said this about the Russian army, comparing it with the Soviet one. And he advised the West about the Ukrainian army that the exercises along with the Russian army should not be carried out (it will blow all the Baltic countries to hell. Cit.). For our armies have long been dangerous in exercises, and not in battle.
      1. +1
        23 November 2013 17: 07
        I remember. Only now, so to speak, about the Russian one - by, but about our own thing. Alas.
        1. -1
          24 November 2013 18: 39
          Surprising scum wanting country under whose flag they go ...
    2. smersh70
      +9
      23 November 2013 12: 55
      Quote: Old_Kapitan
      already turned into her power ...


      I would not prematurely bury the Ukrainian Armed Forces ... Ukrainians are excellent soldiers .... specialists ... about half of the officers in the USSR Armed Forces, by the way, were ..... and as for former power, this weapon was the property of Ukraine .. inherited from the USSR .... they wanted to sell ... sold ... to whom it was ... the weapons were in bulk .. and sold .. and the money went to the budget ... to the people .... they will decide tomorrow will sell bully ... it's time to put positive articles about Ukraine ... she has not joined the EU wassat
      1. +1
        23 November 2013 17: 08
        I'm not talking about l / s. I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.
        1. +1
          23 November 2013 17: 17
          Quote: Old_Kapitan
          I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.

          And what are you missing? What are the neighbors actively adopting? 5-generation fighter? Armata?

          According to rumors, next year there will be +9 BM Bulatov, several more S-300s will be repaired.
        2. roller2
          0
          23 November 2013 17: 24
          Quote: Old_Kapitan
          I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.

          Who told you that ??
          Do you even serve or the next jacket builds himself a brave soldier Schweik ??
  3. +11
    23 November 2013 08: 47
    As shown above, in any case, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to fight with Russia

    The very formulation of the question of the war between Russia and Ukraine is unacceptable and provocative. To whose mill are you pouring water, Mr. Khramchikhin?
    1. +2
      23 November 2013 11: 17
      Classical warfare is not impossible. But peacekeeping missions are undeniably possible.
      1. Akim
        +2
        23 November 2013 12: 39
        Quote: leon-iv
        But peacekeeping missions are undeniably possible.

        And who will you protect? New Americans Russian bottling.
        1. +3
          23 November 2013 13: 17
          You will soon need to protect yourself from yourself ...
          1. Akim
            0
            23 November 2013 13: 32
            Quote: serviceman.
            You will soon need to protect yourself from yourself ...

            Let it go. And what right do you have for this? Is there a UN mandate?
            1. 0
              23 November 2013 13: 47
              And what is your right to that? Is there a UN mandate?

              Do you believe in these scribbles? Me not. Who is strong is right. It has always been and always will be
              1. Akim
                +1
                23 November 2013 14: 12
                Quote: leon-iv
                Who is strong is right

                And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?
                1. maxvet
                  0
                  23 November 2013 19: 45
                  Quote: Akim
                  And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?

                  I wouldn’t want to see such horror during my life stop
                  1. roller2
                    0
                    23 November 2013 19: 56
                    Quote: maxvet
                    Quote: Akim
                    And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?

                    I wouldn’t want to see such horror during my life stop

                    at least one adequate person on this site good
                  2. Akim
                    0
                    23 November 2013 19: 58
                    Quote: maxvet
                    during his life did not want to see such horror

                    Therefore, you don’t even have to think that you will come with a peacekeeping mission, without UN sanction.
                    1. maxvet
                      0
                      23 November 2013 20: 45
                      Quote: Akim

                      Therefore, you don’t even have to think that you will come with a peacekeeping mission, without UN sanction.

                      I don’t want the reason for this at all, if only with the request of the Ukrainian government (whatever it is, and still no better)
                      1. Akim
                        -1
                        23 November 2013 22: 56
                        Quote: maxvet
                        was, if only with the request of the Ukrainian government (whatever it is-

                        Under the Constitution, the admission of foreign troops is permitted only by decision of the Supreme Council with the submission of the Government.
                    2. Oleg Kharkov
                      0
                      23 November 2013 23: 47
                      I would say that UN sanctions are not necessary either. Although of course, if of course 1917 taught us nothing, then everything is possible.
                  3. +2
                    23 November 2013 21: 35
                    Of course, the reunification of Russia must be bloodless.
                2. -1
                  24 November 2013 07: 49
                  Who needs you? You yourself either give us or in the geyropu you profuche!
                  1. Akim
                    0
                    24 November 2013 09: 15
                    Quote: serviceman.
                    You yourself either give us or in the geyropu you profuche!

                    Can't you iron the laces? 22 years already prophesy.
                    1. -1
                      24 November 2013 09: 24
                      No, you don’t need .... In the geyrop, you will need servants there and stroke ....
                      1. Akim
                        0
                        24 November 2013 09: 42
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        . In the geyrop, the lackeys will be needed there and you will stroke ....

                        Okay, so be it. But, everything will be fair. No divorce love. We will survive. Poland also filled the whole of Europe with its plumbers, and now they are coming back. Since you put an ultimatum "either-or", then I will choose the latter. I do not call your country "Ra..ka" out of respect for its people, you think that others are allowed to be rude. So you get the principle of denial.
                      2. 0
                        24 November 2013 12: 39
                        At when I expressed disrespect for the people of Ukraine? For centuries, we have been one country and one people, and now we fight who is the coolest, but Russia without Ukraine will probably be harder more morally from the loss of what was originally Russia, maybe the Ukrainians will finally begin to live more satisfying having given sovereignty to the European Union maybe .... You personally choose Europe, but thank God you are not the whole of Ukraine!
                      3. Akim
                        +1
                        24 November 2013 13: 00
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        You personally choose Europe, but thank God you are not the whole of Ukraine!

                        I do not choose anything. I do not want either in the EU or the CU. That's just the servants of your citizens neither called names and never rushed to be the first to criticize Russia, although there are plenty of reasons for it in VO. Even on the topic of the Indian aircraft carrier. And in the subject I lunge into lunge. What is bad with us, we already know. Keep track of your litter.
                      4. +1
                        24 November 2013 13: 06
                        You yourself stuffed the laces to iron!
                      5. Akim
                        0
                        24 November 2013 13: 56
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        You yourself stuffed the laces to iron!

                        And this means a serf ?. Think miniscule and finely.
        2. +1
          23 November 2013 21: 34
          Russians from Galicians and Crimean Tatars. Everything goes to this.
    2. +1
      23 November 2013 12: 32
      but don’t say who could have thought 10 years ago that the Georgians would kill the Russian soldiers, but it happened. as they say from the sum and from prison, and here the topic is the same, today there is no enemy, and tomorrow the brother will betray.
      1. Akim
        +1
        23 November 2013 13: 02
        Quote: core
        and don’t say who could have thought 10 years ago that Georgians would kill Russian soldiers,

        One could imagine 10 years ago. But in 1988, no. So far, Ukraine has no prerequisites to go armed aggression against anyone.
        1. +2
          23 November 2013 13: 50
          Quote: Akim
          So far, Ukraine has no prerequisites to go armed aggression against anyone.

          because there is nothing.

          laughing
          1. Akim
            +1
            23 November 2013 14: 13
            Quote: Rider
            because there is nothing.

            Because there is no point. The one who accumulates military force is only bad for invasion.
            1. +4
              23 November 2013 14: 59
              Quote: Akim
              Because there is no point. The one who accumulates military force is only bad for invasion.


              maybe you are right.
              here it’s only someone from not the most stupid minds of antiquity said: people who do not want to feed their army will feed someone else's.

              good luck with joining the European Union
              wink
              1. Akim
                +1
                23 November 2013 15: 08
                Quote: Rider
                good luck with joining the European Union

                There is no television in Kazakhstan? No. So look at the Internet. Nobody is going anywhere. Yes, and did not go before, but planned to sign an association.
                PS As for feeding the army - I agree. The budget would like more.
  4. +8
    23 November 2013 08: 51
    Tovarisch the author usually scared the majority of his articles with a threat from the east, and now he switched to Ukraine, why would it suddenly! And in general, according to the article, what the author wanted to say, I still did not understand that the "Ukrainian" army is called an army only on paper, it has been known for a long time and it is very regrettable.
    1. +2
      23 November 2013 12: 35
      the very title of the article is absurd "What is left of Ukraine's former military might." AUTHOR PROFESSIONAL HITCHCOCK, everyone and everything scares.
  5. biglow
    +9
    23 November 2013 08: 58
    soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing
    1. +7
      23 November 2013 09: 25
      soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing
      waiting for Akima wassat
      1. Akim
        +3
        23 November 2013 12: 43
        Quote: Horst78
        waiting for Akima

        For a Banderlog, you can use the keyboard and receive it on the monitor. The APU is not all right. Not all, but do not bury ahead of time. Or is there not enough patience to wait? Otherwise, the forecasts of the "experts" do not come true.
        1. +1
          23 November 2013 12: 59
          For banderlog you can use the keyboard and monitor.
          I'm waiting for the keyboard laughing and on account
          on the monitor will receive
          come to us in Siberia, there will be a keyboard and wreaths on an nameless grave crying
          1. Akim
            +4
            23 November 2013 13: 21
            Quote: Horst78
            come to us in Siberia, there will be a keyboard and wreaths on an nameless grave

            The climate is not like. Let's get to our sea at summer. And on the last day, say that everything is here banderlog. Will be registered in the permanent silent inhabitants.
            Although you come - your opinion will change.
            1. +2
              23 November 2013 15: 50
              Thanks for the invitation. I’ve been running into the sea so much in the USSR that I still don’t want it. I would be in the mountains good
              1. Akim
                +4
                23 November 2013 16: 00
                Quote: Horst78
                I’ve been running into the sea so much in the USSR

                Yes, quite a while ...
                Then in the Carpathians and you will see that there are not all Bendera, but a minority. And then we sat up without the sea. It’s like in a joke.
                -In summer, I’ll wash myself in the river
                -And what about in the winter?
                -What of that winter.
                1. +1
                  23 November 2013 18: 17
                  I want to go to Abkhazia, in 1987 I liked it there in the mountains. And at the expense of the Carpathians will need to think. By the way, do not know how in Tulchin and in the Vinnitsa region belong to Russian Khokhlov? Dad from Tulchin.
                  1. Akim
                    +1
                    23 November 2013 18: 25
                    Quote: Horst78
                    how do they treat Russian Khokhlov in Tulchin and in the Vinnitsa region? Dad from Tulchin

                    Yes, they are normal. You will not prove to them with the stubbornness of a ram animal that they live improperly. They themselves will say that they do not like in their lives.
                    1. +3
                      23 November 2013 18: 34
                      with the tenacity of a ram animal
                      offensively sad anyway laughing
        2. PiP
          +2
          23 November 2013 13: 37
          Akim, have a question ... The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”. Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?
          1. Akim
            +4
            23 November 2013 13: 51
            Quote: PiP
            . Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?

            I can’t say for everyone. There is generally no such mood. Here the high salaries of the Russian military have a slight envy. Not black - just like why aren't we? Compare officers of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol and their salaries, forgetting that they are large at Ukrainian prices.
          2. +4
            23 November 2013 14: 00
            Quote: PiP
            Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?

            I will express the opinion of one of my acquaintance Ukrainians with whom we actively corresponded several years ago.

            here are his words (not verbatim)
            the war between Ukraine and Russia (no matter who starts it) will be primarily a civil war inside Ukraine.
            Well, he VERY hoped that the Russian troops would NOT go to the West / West (it’s necessary to pull bandyuk out of caches), let them boil in their own juice.
            all the more so without subsidies from the east, they have only one way left - to work in Europe.
        3. biglow
          +2
          23 November 2013 13: 53
          Quote: Akim
          For a banderlog, you can use the keyboard and monitor

          I see such people every day, you’re brave Bandera and Nazis there in your lion, and you’re going to look for work in the south ... and you quickly remember the Russian language and again no one is offended by the words of Bandera workers .... laughing
          1. Akim
            +4
            23 November 2013 14: 16
            Quote: biglow
            you there in your lion brave Bandera and fascists praise

            Learn geography and do not wake the beast in me, especially the HARE.
            1. biglow
              +1
              23 November 2013 19: 01
              Quote: Akim
              Quote: biglow
              you there in your lion brave Bandera and fascists praise

              Learn geography and do not wake the beast in me, especially the HARE.

              what kind of Odessa are you from, Odessa region is the maximum ..., Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ...
              1. Akim
                +1
                23 November 2013 19: 07
                Quote: biglow
                , Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ..

                Did I say that the native Odessa? I will be in Odessa in the first generation, but then my son will be in the second. But certainly not a Lviv citizen. Although who previously thought this?
                1. biglow
                  +2
                  23 November 2013 19: 17
                  Quote: Akim
                  Quote: biglow
                  , Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ..

                  Did I say that the native Odessa? I will be in Odessa in the first generation, but then my son will be in the second. But certainly not a Lviv citizen. Although who previously thought this?

                  read above, your grandchildren will be from Odessa ... From Odessa, this saying went to your attention .. So be honest and call yourself a representative of the area in the province where you came from ....
                  1. Akim
                    0
                    23 November 2013 19: 41
                    Quote: biglow
                    read above, your grandchildren will be Odessa residents ...

                    Odessa is root and not root. The same definition of the third generation determines the spirit of Odessa and then conditionally. Do you think Zhvanetsky is an Odessa citizen? And by the way, his parents are newcomers.
                    Will treat me about Odessa! smile
                    1. biglow
                      0
                      24 November 2013 14: 15
                      Quote: Akim
                      Quote: biglow
                      read above, your grandchildren will be Odessa residents ...

                      Odessa is root and not root. The same definition of the third generation determines the spirit of Odessa and then conditionally. Do you think Zhvanetsky is an Odessa citizen? And by the way, his parents are newcomers.
                      Will treat me about Odessa! smile

                      go to the import, talk with the people and you will know everything ....
                      1. Akim
                        0
                        24 November 2013 15: 23
                        Quote: biglow
                        go to the import

                        When were you at Privoz last time? There are no inhabitants of Odessa. not behind the shelves, and among the buyers there are few of them. All mainly from the area. It's like Odessa Day people do not go on Deribasovskaya.
      2. maxvet
        +1
        23 November 2013 19: 50
        Quote: Horst78
        soon the banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing we are waiting for Akima

        ha ha ha. Akima was recorded in banderlogs!
    2. Hudo
      +7
      23 November 2013 10: 09
      Quote: biglow
      soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing


      Anyone whose point of view does not coincide with the schizoid gloomy vision of the reality of banderlogs, they (banderlogs) are credited to the so-called hell ukroyiny (Ukrainian enemies). Then minus all comments heap, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.

      Ostap leaned toward the keyhole, put his hand to his mouth with a pipe and said clearly: “How much opium is for the people?” They were silent behind the door. - Dad, you are a vulgar man! shouted Ostap. At the same second, he jumped out of the keyhole and crawled minus from banderlog pencil "Faber", the point of which svidomit Father Fedor tried to sting the enemy. The concessionaire pulled back in time and grabbed the pencil. Enemies, separated by a door, silently began to draw a pencil towards themselves. Youth won, and the pencil, resting like a splinter, slowly crawled out of the well. With this trophy, Ostap returned to his room. The companions cheered even more. - And the enemy runs, runs, runs! - sang Ostap. On the edge of a pencil, he cut out an insulting word with a penknife, ran out into the corridor and, lowering the pencil into the keyhole, he immediately returned.
      laughing
      1. +5
        23 November 2013 10: 26
        with a schizoid gloomy vision of reality
        lol not tolerant but true bully
        1. Hudo
          +4
          23 November 2013 10: 49
          Quote: Horst78
          with a schizoid gloomy vision of reality
          lol not tolerant but true bully


          Which one there tolerance! Banderlog has only an outer shell that looks like a human, inside it is a zombie. In connection with the liquefaction of the brain, the ability to think logically is completely atrophied - if in the course of a discussion with them (Bander-natsyukas), the arguments of the koi go beyond the narrow Svidomo templates - "Fatal error" is displayed in the eyes of the Svidomo, after which from under the mask a murlop appears "superior race" with attendant symptoms - cave Russophobia, insults, and stupid threats.
          1. +1
            23 November 2013 13: 01
            Banderlogs have impotence of logic and lack of brain. What to talk about with them? This will have to do a lobotomy of the brain so that it falls to their level of thinking
      2. Hudo
        +1
        23 November 2013 18: 39
        Quote: Hudo
        After that all comments of the heap are minus, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.


        The first unfortunate "passed away". With your relief, Mr. Svidomo. laughing fool
      3. +3
        24 November 2013 20: 54
        Anyone whose point of view does not coincide with the schizoid gloomy vision of the reality of banderlogs, they (banderlogs) are credited to the so-called rushki rushki (Russian. Russia). After that all comments of the heap are minus, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.

        Ostap leaned over to the keyhole, put his hand to his mouth with a pipe and distinctly said: - How much is opium for the people? They were silent outside the door. - Daddy, you are a vulgar man! - shouted Ostap. At the same moment, a pencil "Faber" jumped out of the keyhole and fidgeted with a minus from the banderlog, with the tip of which Father Fyodor tried to sting the enemy. The concessionaire drew back in time and grabbed the pencil. The enemies, separated by the door, silently began to pull the pencil towards them. Youth won, and the pencil, resting like a splinter, slowly crawled out of the hole. With this trophy, Ostap returned to his room. The companions were even more amused. - And the enemy runs, runs, runs! sang Ostap. On the edge of a pencil he carved an insulting word with a penknife, ran out into the corridor and, dropping the pencil into the keyhole, immediately returned. laughing
  6. +7
    23 November 2013 09: 02
    The country and the army were brought by the "great" politicians and overseas "friends". It's a shame for ordinary Ukrainians, for so many years they have been deceiving them, along the way accusing Russia of all their sins.
  7. Lesnik
    +4
    23 November 2013 09: 14
    The army is the main institution of the state. No army - no state. But in Ukraine it has long been gone. I will not hope to continue the logical chain, and so it’s clear negative
  8. makarov
    +3
    23 November 2013 09: 27
    What is the topic ??? Surely the "elder brother" intends to throw something off the master's shoulder? So Janek, besides green money, will not accept anything else, he and the lads will not shove tanks and planes into banks (?)
    1. duke
      +7
      23 November 2013 09: 44
      excerpt from the interview A.I. Fursova hi :
      - Listen, how do you feel if I say with non-political straightforwardness that corrupt elites, including Ukraine, are ready to sell all of Ukraine, if only to preserve themselves?
      AF - Yes, the fact is that they will not be preserved. When the Germans left Ukraine, they did not take the policemen. For some reason, Ukrainians do not learn the lessons of their policemen. They threw the policemen away, and the policemen only had to smear their boots with fat and run into the woods and pretend that they were fighting the Germans there. Someone happened, but someone did not. The fact is that the mistake of the Ukrainians, if the Ukrainians really think so, they repeat the mistake of the Soviet elite of the 80s: the Soviet elite of the 80s is stupid, well-fed, provincial believed that if they are now dismantling the Soviet Union, they will be put in one table with western elite.
      - Here she is, a secret dream.
      AF — The Western elite was not formed for more than 400 years to plant strangers (even Germans and French, by no means all, only aristocrats, not bourgeois), the Anglo-Saxon elite, held together by Jewish capital, was ready to sit at the table, and all the rest will be at the bucket.
    2. HAM
      +2
      23 November 2013 09: 54
      OU "elder brother" (USA) can only give a hell.
      1. 0
        23 November 2013 12: 15
        Quote: HAM
        OU "elder brother" (USA) can only give a hell.

        Well this is unlikely! The Americans themselves horseradish last soon without salt grunt ...
    3. +1
      23 November 2013 10: 13
      Quote: makarov
      So Yanek, except for the green money, will not accept anything else

      Will accept. By the cheek. The one who offers more greens. And for a lot of green and in the anus will take.
  9. +5
    23 November 2013 09: 29
    It would be interesting to read about the Russian army. What was, what is and what is expected in the near future.
  10. Maximus-xnumx
    +2
    23 November 2013 09: 43
    After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine received a magnificent army - three very strong military districts of the second strategic echelon and three air armies (not counting the powerful arsenal of strategic nuclear forces), the total number is about 800 thousand people. The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. By the number of tanks (more than 6100) and combat aircraft (more than 1100), Ukraine occupied the 4 place in the world after the United States, Russia and China.
    And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.
    1. +4
      23 November 2013 11: 03
      Quote: Maximus-22
      And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.

      That's how we are going to ....
      Until 2017, about 6,5 thousand lieutenants, majors and colonels will be reduced in the Ukrainian army. Of the hundreds of Ukrainian generals, one in five (20 people) will lose their jobs. Dismissals are part of the army reform program, which should become fully contracted by 2017.
      Each dismissed person will receive a one-time payment of 50% of the salary for each year of service. Those who have served in the army for ten or more years will be able to count on payment. That is, if a major received an average of 2 500 UAH per month, then after leaving his ten years of service, he can count on 12,5 thousand.
      Retired soldiers will be offered retraining. Over the course of several years, more than 21 thousand troops will pass this program. Abbreviations no longer concern combat units, but rear ones — warehouses, repair shops, etc., Vesti writes.
      xxxxx
      The main thing the Navy is not touched! laughing The submarine "Zaporozhets" will proudly sail the Ukrainian steppes!
      1. biglow
        +2
        23 November 2013 19: 13
        Quote: Egoza
        Quote: Maximus-22
        And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.

        That's how we are going to ....
        Until 2017, about 6,5 thousand lieutenants, majors and colonels will be reduced in the Ukrainian army. Of the hundreds of Ukrainian generals, one in five (20 people) will lose their jobs. Dismissals are part of the army reform program, which should become fully contracted by 2017.
        Each dismissed person will receive a one-time payment of 50% of the salary for each year of service. Those who have served in the army for ten or more years will be able to count on payment. That is, if a major received an average of 2 500 UAH per month, then after leaving his ten years of service, he can count on 12,5 thousand.
        Retired soldiers will be offered retraining. Over the course of several years, more than 21 thousand troops will pass this program. Abbreviations no longer concern combat units, but rear ones — warehouses, repair shops, etc., Vesti writes.
        xxxxx
        The main thing the Navy is not touched! laughing The submarine "Zaporozhets" will proudly sail the Ukrainian steppes!

        so many diesel fuel of other resources are written off on this boat that they will keep it until it sinks at the pier ... in the Ukrainian fleet you can buy diesel fuel for a third of the price, the floor of Sevastopol uses such fuel ... nothing is sold from Russian bases. ...
      2. roller2
        +2
        23 November 2013 19: 17
        Quote: Egoza
        Submarine "Zaporozhets"

        I would not be very ironic about this, have you already kicked the B-380 out of the dock, or will it swim with it?
  11. qwert1707
    +3
    23 November 2013 09: 55
    Yes, everywhere now it is like this ... all "leaders and rulers" live according to the principle: Steal, sell, appropriate, fill your pocket and go abroad ... and after me at least the grass does not grow "
    They ruined the great country of the USSR, it remains to "finish and destroy" the remnants ...
  12. Maximus-xnumx
    +3
    23 November 2013 10: 03
    Having noticed the negative feedback, I’m ready to correct myself a little. Ukraine is doing the right thing that it is getting rid of, but that’s why it does not develop and produce a new guide on its conscience. Maybe at the top they think that we’ll join NATO soon and still have to change all weapons in connection with the transition to the NATO standard. Maybe they think that Russia in trouble will not abandon what happens. In short, ICS knows what is really happening.
    P / S and why am I worried about the problems of the neighboring state? Maybe because they are the same as my native ???
  13. +5
    23 November 2013 10: 13
    Events in Ukraine resemble the effects of the virus. A virus is a microbiological substance that has program DNA or RNA code or a malicious program. The purpose of which is to penetrate into a healthy cell, to introduce and replace the cell DNA with its own DNA code. Subsequently, controlling the life-support systems of the cell for its own purposes, for example, the biophage uses the cell to reproduce its own kind or weaken the defense mechanisms, the spirit will exhaust, matter will remain. But the virus is not an independent organism, it is a biorobot, a biological weapon in someone’s hands, the question is what the head of these hands intended ...?
  14. HAM
    +1
    23 November 2013 10: 21
    To the point .. Further, it was "orange", will be "blue" or otherwise, "nature" has a lot of colors.
  15. FRITZ LANG
    +8
    23 November 2013 10: 35
    Good morning to everyone, I congratulate everyone on the holiday. Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day, I congratulate all the Orthodox and all other religions who celebrate this holiday. I wish you all happiness, love and understanding. I especially want to congratulate all the military, in my country St. George is the patron saint of the military. Once again, everyone on the occasion.
    1. +1
      23 November 2013 11: 05
      Quote: FRITZ LANG
      Good morning to everyone, I congratulate everyone on the holiday. Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day,

      Thank! Mutually!
    2. +2
      23 November 2013 11: 07
      Quote: FRITZ LANG
      Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day,


      Not too lazy, climbed into the search engine:
      • Day of getting up from that leg
      • Name-days at Orestes, Rodion, Constantine, George, Clementius, Feliciates
      • Memorial Day of St. George the Victorious

      On the third place... recourse
      1. Akim
        +3
        23 November 2013 12: 50
        Quote: seasoned
        • Memorial Day of St. George the Victorious

        Day of St. George the Victorious - May 6. I remember from the institute.
        1. FRITZ LANG
          +6
          23 November 2013 13: 34
          Dear Akim, each country has its patron saints. Both dates are celebrated in my country of Georgia. For me, all Orthodox brothers, including you if you are one. Therefore, I wrote that comment, I wanted to share my joyful fortune, I am half Slav, my mother is Slav, my grandfather is Ukrainian, my grandmother Russian. And personally, it is extremely unpleasant for me when the Slavs squabble among themselves to the joy of common enemies.
        2. 0
          24 November 2013 13: 20
          Quote: Akim
          Day of St. George the Victorious - May 6. I remember from the institute.

          To my great shame, I did not know this date, I "looked" into a search engine, indeed on May 6.
          Now
          will "crash" into memory ... Thank you, +.
    3. duke
      +3
      23 November 2013 14: 00
      Thanks to Fritz on his kind words and to you well-being, happiness and health, good luck and success ...
  16. Stasi
    +4
    23 November 2013 10: 41
    As one American politician put it: "Weakness does not guarantee peace, but retreat does not guarantee security." This is how you can characterize the thought on the topic of why the army is if no one is going to attack. I am sure that all such destructive processes that are taking place in Ukraine will sooner or later lead to its collapse. The west of the country will go under the protectorate of Poland, and the Center and the South-East will become part of Russia, everything is heading towards this.
    1. Akim
      0
      23 November 2013 12: 53
      Quote: Stasi
      The west of the country will go under the protectorate of Poland, and the Center and the South-East will become part of Russia, everything goes to this.

      There you are.
      1. maxvet
        +1
        23 November 2013 20: 03
        and a parcel in response? wink
        1. Akim
          +1
          23 November 2013 20: 23
          Quote: maxvet
          and the parcel in response

          And if you roll a barrel on it, then this is already called container shipping ...
          1. maxvet
            0
            23 November 2013 20: 48
            damn forgot further request
            1. Akim
              +1
              23 November 2013 21: 12
              Quote: maxvet
              damn forgot further

              ... THIS TRANSAGENITY DOES IN RURAL AREAS.
  17. +4
    23 November 2013 10: 46
    I wonder how many generals in the army of Ukraine? Probably only the army will consist of them. But there will be few admirals, about 200-300. To control the chermet (which I consider the autonomous ones to be the POWERFUL OCEAN FLEET lol ) I think it will be enough.
  18. +6
    23 November 2013 11: 14
    Since history loves to repeat itself, and everything apparently goes to its repetition, Ukraine has perhaps two ways, this is joining Russia, following the example of Austria in 1938, perhaps the most painless option, well, or the example of Czechoslovakia is also 38 years old, when to gather "big uncles" And they will divide Ukraine, and the Ukrainian president will quietly sit in the corridor, and wait for him to be summoned to announce the decision and sign where he is indicated, and then kick it back into the corridor. Aliens? Americans? Or do they live with the thought "Everything is worse in Russia"? I understand that for a flawed person, the thought "the neighbor has the same or even worse" is a saving straw that allows you to live, but it may be time to wake up and see what kind of your a country is being bargained for like a carpet in a bazaar? A strong and successful country is not divided like that. Ukraine had a chance, they chose not to use it, but gloated over the USSR and Russia, amused their ChSV well, and now what to do?
  19. +5
    23 November 2013 11: 16
    The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.
    Very hasty and in many ways NOT the CORRECT conclusion. In a word - Khramchikhin ...
    1. +8
      23 November 2013 11: 25
      Yes, before. Now they are recruiting very regular Svidomo from the western regions. You don’t need to feel sorry for those. These are ENEMIES.
      1. Akim
        +2
        23 November 2013 12: 55
        Quote: leon-iv
        Earlier yes

        Previously, even such a thought was not allowed among the military. Now for you they are all enemies.
  20. +4
    23 November 2013 13: 00
    On the other hand, it is impossible not to admit that Ukraine, by and large, does not need the army because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.


    this is pure truth. why keep a huge army if there is no external threat? that's why surplus weapons are being sold. it's still better than cutting them up for scrap and disposing of them.
    1. duke
      +1
      23 November 2013 17: 45
      another option is also possible, sell everything, and then start buying "leopards", like Poland bully
      1. Akim
        +1
        23 November 2013 17: 58
        Quote: duke
        and then start buying "leopards" like Poland

        Poland has a lot of T-72M and RT-91.
  21. freedom2013
    +5
    23 November 2013 13: 25
    Every year I visit (in) Ukraine and always meet with classmates. Many took the oath only because they had not stood in line for 6 years and were about to receive it. Now the real state of the army cannot be described without unprintable words. I have a pension more than their salaries. From the latest news: In 2014, there will be no call, they will switch to a contract, but people will go or not is a big question. Of course there is a chance, because just mad unemployed, and fishless fish as they say.
    1. makarov
      +1
      23 November 2013 14: 28
      "My pension is more than their salary ..."

      And I have a pension more than their salaries. But this is also not an indicator. after all, we are not savages to measure who has a longer and longer pipe on the pisyun ...
      1. freedom2013
        +1
        23 November 2013 14: 58
        Makarych - I agree, we are not savages, but this is one of the indicators of the state of the army.
  22. Shumer
    +6
    23 November 2013 13: 36
    I don’t remember where I read that the power of the state can be determined by three parameters - this is how children live in the state, how old people live and how people live in uniform. Ah, iron is iron, but military people are begging, all their lives in hostels and removable huts.
    1. freedom2013
      +1
      23 November 2013 15: 03
      The first hut (1-room apartment in Khrushchevka on the 1st floor) was received in 1988 (post about Stepyanka, Minsk district, now Minsk), the wife was pregnant at the 6th month, the second and the last 2011. And so they lived.
  23. MOPKOBKA2000
    +1
    23 November 2013 14: 07
    Not everyone was lucky with oil-gas. Spin as they can ...
  24. +1
    23 November 2013 14: 34
    and if they go to war in Africa, that is, to create the world, they will put a lot of problems on us. they say more than half in RUSSIAN, and this is a fundamental indicator for afronegres.
  25. Endrew
    -4
    23 November 2013 15: 12
    The author says that "The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. By the number of tanks (more than 6100)" (T-62 -200, T-64 -2100, T-72 ~ 1000, T-55 -2700, T- 80 -300) of the "modern" only t80!
    1. freedom2013
      +4
      23 November 2013 15: 20
      T-64 and T-72 (3100 pieces), is that junk? In Russia, the T-72 are being modernized.
      1. Akim
        +2
        23 November 2013 15: 25
        That's about the T-80 exaggeration, There were less than 200 pieces in different suits.
      2. Endrew
        +2
        23 November 2013 15: 30
        Almost 40 years in service is not enough? Years of operation of the t-72 since 1974
        Well, the deep modernization of the T-72 is the T-90!
        1. Akim
          +2
          23 November 2013 15: 41
          Quote: Endrew
          Years of operation of the T-72 since 1974

          Even judging by this not cunning logic, the oldest "Ural" at the time of the collapse of the USSR was 17 years old. Although on the territory of Ukraine, there were in most tanks of the 80s of production.
    2. Akim
      +1
      23 November 2013 15: 21
      Quote: Endrew
      from "modern" only t80!

      Here I do not agree. The tanks of the third generation were all quite modern.
      1. Endrew
        -6
        23 November 2013 15: 36
        But in the war in Iraq they (t. 72) had almost no chance against the Abrams!
        1. Akim
          +5
          23 November 2013 15: 49
          Quote: Endrew
          they (t 72) had almost no chance against the Abrams!

          And they there and she fought with them in fights. Moreover, it should be noted that in Iraq there were export T-72Ms and shells, which we removed from production in the late 70s.
  26. +6
    23 November 2013 15: 33
    Guys!
    Although I am Ukrainian, I have lived in Russia for almost my entire adult life. Let's not laugh at our neighbors, but think about what we ourselves have left, IF we REMOVE nuclear weapons. Look at our fleet: of all, only the Northern one can, at the very least, solve the tasks of the GREAT POWER. And then, in my opinion, it is not normal when the heavy cruiser "Peter the Great" is sent WITHOUT escort to catch Somali pirates (that is, to carry out tasks that could be completely entrusted to some TFR). And what about the Pacific Fleet, what about the Baltic, eh? What kind of ships are there, the newest or what? Our only advantage over Ukraine is that we can afford to invest in the same Bulava (and then, remember the Union, there such systems were developed much more energetically, and we have not been able to get the result since 2010).
    Farther. Aviation. Maybe I'm confusing something, but look at the 2008 conflict, all our pilots shot down over Georgia were at the rank of no lower than a major, which means that the young were not only taken care of, but simply were not allowed into the sky (well, you can say that and saved in principle) due to the apparently "high" number of raids.
    Ground troops. Hmm, remember this one of our T-90s, with which everything is worn and worn, and the Russian Armed Forces haven’t completely switched to it, and it sits on the T-72 and T-80.
    I understand that now many of you, dear interlocutors, will not agree with me. However, I am not writing this in order to belittle our country - Russia, and our Armed Forces, not at all. Just before you laugh at your neighbor, look at what we ourselves have.
    Yes, you say that in the 90s Ukraine cut an entire Tu-22M3 air regiment and, if I’m not mistaken, the Tu-160x squadron, BUT guys, you see that at the same time, in the 90s, we, under Yeltsin, energetically cut we are our latest, and not so, weapons.

    It's another matter that now they are trying to do something with us, there, the two Mistral-class ships criticized by all have done. Am I scoffing? But no. As one shipbuilding engineer told me from the Northern Shipyards, Russia needs experience in building such ships, because the experience of the USSR, not even experience, but qualified personnel capable of building an aircraft-carrying ship, are absent. Look at the "Vikramaditya" ("Baku"), how many problems there were with the power plant, and in what time frame we handed over this ship to the Indians.

    But nevertheless, my dear fellow citizens from the Russian Federation, well, don’t have to laugh at the Ukrainians like that, especially since we are not in the open.
    1. 0
      23 November 2013 17: 57
      The raid in 2008 was much lower than now, but still higher than in Ukraine. What do we have left? Imagine that everyone here knows, to the Soviet army, as to the moon on foot, that's just the Ukrainian to ours about the same.

      Regarding the aircraft carrier for the Indians, that is a very interesting article:
      http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/exclusive/view/60542/
      And I have no particular doubts that it was like that, because it simply does not happen differently in the absence of a competent customer. So if something flew on an aircraft carrier, it was precisely because it was done according to the wishes of the Indians.
      1. Akim
        0
        23 November 2013 18: 06
        Quote: EvilLion
        that's just Ukrainian to ours, about the same.

        Well, of course.))) That’s better with pilot training in Russia. Ukraine does not reach twice the number of flight hours per year.
      2. roller2
        -1
        23 November 2013 18: 13
        Quote: EvilLion
        The raid in 2008 was much lower than now, but still higher than in Ukraine.

        And what is the raid in Russia ???
        In half a year, a friend of mine flew 200 hours with something (a third of crews with approximately the same flying time). True, the raid in the squadron is different for everyone from 40-50 hours to 200 (communicated with him at the end of summer at sea), but I don’t know how much they flew at the end of the year - I don’t know. But if you just multiply by 2 then it’s quite normal.
        1. +1
          23 November 2013 18: 20
          Quote: rolik2
          And what is the raid in Russia ???

          Russian Air Force: total flying time of pilots in 2012 amounted to more than 300 thousand hours

          Particular attention was paid to the training of young pilots - graduates of 2011, who on average flew 100 hours each.

          Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049051124050057056052051.html
          1. roller2
            -1
            23 November 2013 18: 31
            How many raid of the average pilot combatant ???
            Do you personally know ???
            I can google dozens of such links.
            Judging by the fact that you get your knowledge on the Internet, then your arguments are worthless.
            1. 0
              23 November 2013 18: 54
              Quote: rolik2
              Judging by the fact that you get your knowledge on the Internet, then your arguments are worthless.

              well, you don’t recognize my knowledge, but let me ask, what is YOUR knowledge based on?
              on the information of your (supposedly) friend?
              but how to verify that it really exists?
              and the average training of YOUNG pilots was 100 hours
              as I mentioned.

              Well, now YOUR data is about the guru of aviation sciences.


              Do not be shy, take the trouble to confirm your words.
    2. 0
      23 November 2013 19: 59
      Quote: Fuzeler
      Look at our fleet: of all, only the North can at least solve the tasks of the GREAT POWER.
      Now the fleet is not so hot. But OH built, albeit with problems. The fleet cannot be revived in a year or three, it is a long work and it is going on ...
      Here is a table for ships under construction and chartered, without submarines. http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43684/
    3. maxvet
      0
      23 November 2013 20: 13
      Quote: Fuzeler
      Maybe I'm confusing something, but look at the 2008 conflict, all our pilots shot down over Georgia were at the rank of no lower than a major, which means that the young were not only taken care of, but simply were not allowed into the sky (well, you can say that and saved in principle) due to the apparently "high" number of raids.

      Or maybe they wanted to give the majors a chance to get military awards? IMHO
  27. +3
    23 November 2013 15: 35
    Yes (s), Ukrainians have no one to fight, one part of the population is ready to go west, the other east, and a third part of the population, like that Chinese maupa, looks like the first two are fighting among themselves. Ukraine needs internal troops. Careless rulers of Ukraine, successfully pross ... the potential of the military-industrial complex remaining from the USSR.
  28. Unisonic
    +2
    23 November 2013 15: 47
    Only Belarus did not lose anything. Everyone else slipped into shit. Ukraine is at the peak of this slide.
    1. Lesnik
      +2
      23 November 2013 16: 53
      Quote: Unisonic
      Only Belarus did not lose anything. Everyone else slipped into shit. Ukraine is at the peak of this slide.

      Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!
      1. +2
        23 November 2013 17: 23
        Quote: Forestman
        Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!

        what is the truth? Belarus lost a lot of things and sold. For example, the T-80 went to England and Emen. The S-300 also worked hard. And it would be interesting to compare how much was in the USSR and how many now. If the Su-27 is removed from service, and their quantity piece.
      2. roller2
        +2
        23 November 2013 17: 26
        Quote: Forestman
        Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!

        A couple of days ago there was an article about the removal from service of the Belarusian Armed Forces Su-27. without replacement. Is it your way ??
  29. Endrew
    -2
    23 November 2013 16: 02
    Quote: Akim
    And they there and she fought with them in fights

    What did they do then?
    1. Akim
      +8
      23 November 2013 16: 37
      Quote: Endrew
      What did they do then?

      Do not see Discovery. There once bought an actor. Most of the damaged T-72s in Iraq were from ATGM Tou or A-10 attack aircraft
      1. Endrew
        +1
        23 November 2013 17: 04
        Quote: Akim
        Most of the damaged T-72s in Iraq were from ATGM Tou or A-10 attack aircraft

        For some reason, tanks always have nothing to do with you! soldier
        1. Akim
          +2
          23 November 2013 17: 51
          Quote: Endrew
          Why do you always have tanks with nothing

          Why? Moreover. Not as beautiful as described in the film, but also knocked out. And even the old French (in the second campaign). The T-72 itself could not be called obsolete
      2. 0
        24 November 2013 11: 59
        That's right. You should also remember that export and labor Soviet T-72s are two big differences. The USSR kept the best tanks
  30. Lesnik
    0
    23 November 2013 16: 47
    Quote: Endrew
    Quote: Akim
    And they there and she fought with them in fights

    What did they do then?


    Dumb Amer propaganda + computer graphics and nothing more
    And generally it’s incorrect to compare tanks of different class
    1. Endrew
      +2
      23 November 2013 17: 37
      Tanks are no longer divided into heavy, medium and light. There is MBT!
  31. 0
    23 November 2013 16: 53
    If we didn’t have the oil and gas on which we support our army, then now it would be weaker than the Ukrainian one - it’s obvious ...
    1. +4
      23 November 2013 17: 58
      We have them, and if the Ukrainians separated from this oil, then this is their problem.
    2. maxvet
      0
      23 November 2013 20: 17
      Quote: Agent 008
      If we didn’t have the oil and gas on which we support our army, then now it would be weaker than the Ukrainian one - it’s obvious ...

      That is, the fact that we have them is our fault, or trouble, or ...
  32. -3
    23 November 2013 17: 46
    On the other hand, it is impossible not to admit that Ukraine, by and large, does not need the army because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.

    The author answered himself. It makes no sense to maintain a huge army if there are no enemies. There are other needs for losing money.
    1. +2
      23 November 2013 17: 51
      Quote: golem
      There are other needs for losing money.

      and money, too, no.
      here is such a byad.
      1. -3
        23 November 2013 17: 59
        Quote: Rider
        and money, too, no.
        here is such a byad.

        That's where such greed for the Jewish. money . I don't serve on Saturdays. and maybe he would have thrown a couple of tenge, on the product number two, ..... laughing
        1. +6
          23 November 2013 18: 15
          Quote: atalef
          That's where such greed for the Jewish. of money

          Listen atalef, is everything all right with your head?
          why does every post of mine cause you to associate with the Jews?
          you accidentally, too, is not anti-simit?

          and the product can be used for its intended purpose.

          inflate the ball, for example.

          what kind of complexes you have popping up all the time.
          try to be at least like a pro.
          he would never have descended to such a thing.
          1. -2
            23 November 2013 18: 20
            Quote: Rider
            Listen atalef, is everything all right with your head?
            why does every post of mine cause you to associate with the Jews?

            Read your comments


            Quote: Rider
            you accidentally, too, is not anti-simit?

            Not . And you ?

            Quote: Rider
            and the product can be used for its intended purpose, inflate the ball, for example.

            No, its direct purpose. that would not multiply


            Quote: Rider
            what kind of complexes you have popping up all the time.
            try to be at least like a pro.

            Because he's a professor, I'm just a bat laughing . Sometimes you need to speak a language that the opponent understands.
            1. +2
              23 November 2013 18: 38
              Quote: atalef
              Read your comments

              I ask you to give examples when I spoke about the Jews NOT ON MATTER?
              Quote: atalef
              Not .

              And it seems
              Quote: atalef
              No, its direct purpose. that would not multiply

              Well, it’s more likely to come in handy for you, you don’t have enough land, and the Arabs are more likely to give.
              Quote: atalef
              Because he's a professor, I'm just a bat

              noticeably.
  33. +4
    23 November 2013 17: 51
    If the military equipment of the former USSR was sold abroad, this is normal. Such a huge amount of weapons is not necessary for Ukraine. The main thing is another: that the proceeds would go to the needs of ordinary people.
  34. Lesnik
    +5
    23 November 2013 17: 53
    Quote: rolik2
    Quote: Forestman
    Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!

    A couple of days ago there was an article about the removal from service of the Belarusian Armed Forces Su-27. without replacement. Is it your way ??

    Elementary - a real assessment of threats and opportunities.
    And regarding the military-industrial complex of Belarus, they are the first in the CIS in optoelectronic devices
    1. roller2
      -1
      23 November 2013 18: 07
      Quote: Forestman
      Elementary - a real assessment of threats and opportunities.

      Why, then, the same assessment from Ukraine results in such articles and srach about this,
      In the space industry, Ukraine is far ahead of the CIS countries.
      1. Hudo
        +2
        23 November 2013 18: 19
        Quote: rolik2
        Why, then, the same assessment from Ukraine results in such articles and srach about this,


        Because, apparently, this evaluation risks and threats, and the actions taken in connection with this look extremely unconvincing.

        Quote: rolik2
        Ukraine is far ahead of the CIS countries in the space industry.


        About is ahead this is not entirely true. And the merit is untoward in the fact that there is a place to be, in general, even not - because not because of independence, but contrary to its destructive effect, but rather simply by a miracle (a miracle is called Kuchma L.D.) which did not allow to completely cut the potential because assumed personal benefit from that.
        1. roller2
          -2
          23 November 2013 18: 37
          Quote: Hudo
          look extremely unconvincing

          And what data do you have about the planned attack on Ukraine ??
          There is no real military adversary, but the United States and Russia are guarantors of Ukraine’s security, excessive militarization ?? We don’t have much money and there will be fewer enemies than yours)

          Quote: Hudo
          About ahead of this is not entirely true. Yes, and merit nezalezhnoy in that there is a place to be in general, then no


          Maybe it’s not running fast but it’s keeping up with Russia for sure, I don’t even take into account the rest of the CIS countries.
          And the merit is only ours, and more than a draw.
          1. Hudo
            +1
            23 November 2013 18: 55
            Quote: rolik2
            And what data do you have about the planned attack on Ukraine ??


            There is no direct data, but as much as indirect. It’s enough to recall the shelf near O. Zmeinyi, the distribution of passports by Romanians and Hungarians, who are stupid and insensitive in the queues of racially correct residents of the West Poles behind the Pole Map, the active build-up of the Polish Armed Forces ... I can supplement it if necessary.

            Quote: rolik2
            There is no real military adversary


            Blessed is he who believes. Reality presents amazing surprises.

            Quote: rolik2
            US and Russia are guarantors of Ukraine’s security


            As for the United States guarantor of security, which, without hiding and not hiding, is behind all the bouts of state power in Ukrainian politics, this is strong! laughing

            Quote: rolik2
            A merit (in the space industry my comment) here is only ours, and more than a draw.


            I repeat, if you have not read above. The merits are unbroken in that ZERO integer, ZERO tenths - for all the achievements that are available not due to the unruly, but contrary to it, and they are realized after overcoming all kinds of obstacles created by the ruling kleptocracy. These Merits (with a capital letter!) Are negligible in relation to the existing potential, which irrevocably leaks like water into sand every year of non-fall time.
            1. roller2
              -3
              23 November 2013 19: 03
              It’s enough to recall the shelf near Zmeinyy Island,

              Only do not touch the Serpent, it is a rock and under international law we would not have received what we have.
              distribution of passports by Romanians and Hungarians, standing up to stupidity and insensibility in the queues of racially correct residents of the Western region behind the Pole Map, active build-up of the Polish Armed Forces ..

              and what does this have to do with military intervention ??
              Reality presents amazing surprises.

              I agree, but I think it’s unreasonable to tear the veins to build up the army in case of problems in the economy, you can overtake)))
              Merits unbroken in that ZERO integer, ZERO tenths

              Well, yes, but in the same situation as applied to Russia, the merit is only her so chtoli ??
              1. Hudo
                +2
                23 November 2013 19: 18
                Quote: rolik2
                Only do not touch the Serpent, it’s a rock and under international law we wouldn’t get what we have

                For your information, the so-called international lawis the right of the strong. Under the USSR, Romanians sat quietly, yak on grass, and sensing the weakness, the gypsy at once became bolder. Whether it is yet to come if things go in this order.
                Quote: rolik2
                distribution of passports by Romanians and Hungarians, standing up to stupidity and insensibility in the queues of racially correct residents of the Western region behind the Pole Map, active build-up of the Polish Armed Forces ..

                and what does this have to do with military intervention ??


                The most direct thing - in the event of instability, they will simply send in troops, under the pretext of protecting compatriots who are threatened. And in evidence of the presence of such compatriots, the so-called world community digital - so many passports (cards) have been issued and that’s all, no one will go back. These are the realities.
                Quote: rolik2
                Merits unbroken in that ZERO integer, ZERO tenths

                Well, yes, but in the same situation as applied to Russia, the merit is only her so chtoli ??


                Do you, in general, know what the title of the article sounds like? In articles, for example, about the unsuccessful launch of the "Proton" LV, the topic of "Yuzhmash" did not appear.
                1. roller2
                  -2
                  23 November 2013 19: 36
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Under the USSR, Romanians sat quietly, like a grass

                  during the USSR they didn’t know about the deposits; there were also no production technologies, so they didn’t. Do you offer all issues to be solved by scuffle?

                  Quote: Hudo
                  The most direct thing - in the event of instability, they will simply send in troops, under the pretext of protecting compatriots who are threatened.

                  How are you in Ossetia? How many of those passports? and are they valid in Ukraine?
                  1. +3
                    23 November 2013 19: 46
                    Quote: rolik2
                    How many of those passports?

                    About one million people now live in the Chernivtsi region. Most Ukrainians - 75%. The ethnic group of Romanians is 12%. Moldova - 7%. But the official documents of the Romanian Republic indicate that in Bukovina already 20% of Romanians.

                    http://lb.ua/news/2012/06/12/155648_ruminiya_massovo_razdaet.html


                    but whether they are valid is already a question for your authority.
                    1. roller2
                      -2
                      23 November 2013 20: 06
                      Quote: Rider
                      About one million people now live in the Chernivtsi region. Most Ukrainians - 75%. The ethnic group of Romanians is 12%. Moldova - 7%. But the official documents of the Romanian Republic indicate that in Bukovina already 20% of Romanians.

                      You know, I served on the Romanian border for five years, I have never seen a Ukrainian citizen with a Romanian passport, there are Romanians, there are quite a few "Bulgarian" villages in the border strip, where citizens of Ukraine of Bulgarian nationality live, Romanians are the same but with Ukrainian passports.
                      1. +3
                        23 November 2013 20: 10
                        Quote: rolik2
                        You know, he served for five years on the Romanian border, never saw a Ukrainian citizen with a Romanian passport,

                        yes you never know what you saw there, maybe you slept day and night, maybe you have poor eyesight
                        (don’t be offended, I’m joking like this (like))

                        I'm interested in pure facts, to which my link refers.

                        and from you I haven’t yet received a single document.

                        well i'm patient
                        wait.
                      2. roller2
                        -2
                        23 November 2013 20: 34
                        I’ll ask a friend to throw off the certificate on the number of hours of flight of their squadron so it goes ?? It is not necessary to assure a notary ???
                      3. +2
                        23 November 2013 20: 47
                        Quote: rolik2
                        I’ll ask a friend to throw off the certificate on the number of hours of flight of their squadron so it goes ?? It is not necessary to assure a notary ???

                        Well, clearly.
                        then there will be no evidence.
                      4. roller2
                        -1
                        23 November 2013 21: 00
                        Where will I get her now? A link to the Internet site will not suit you so .. hi
                      5. Hudo
                        +2
                        23 November 2013 20: 17
                        Quote: rolik2
                        You know, he served for five years on the Romanian border; I have never seen a Ukrainian citizen with a Romanian passport

                        Holy naivety! Do they have to stick a Romanian passport on their forehead so that everyone can see it?
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Romanians but with Ukrainian passports.

                        The question is that there are two passports - Ukrainian and Romanian. For example, in the Donbass, a significant part of the population has passports of citizens of the Russian Federation (despite the fact that the Russian Federation does not take absolutely any efforts to increase the number of issued passports, but there are simply no people who do not want to obtain a passport of a Russian citizen) - and no one screaming publicly about the availability of such a passport, just at the right time, such a passport is taken out of the zashashnik and that's it.
                      6. roller2
                        -1
                        23 November 2013 20: 33
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Do they have to stick a Romanian passport on their forehead so that everyone can see it?

                        What for? We just carry out samples every month for the presence of citizens of two or more documents entitling them to cross the border, cross the border according to their foreign passport and internal passport (of that country) are quite frequent but here two passports of different countries issued for one person somehow did not come across, although through I was passed data from 18 checkpoints.
                      7. Hudo
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 20: 43
                        Quote: rolik2
                        We just sample every month


                        That is, you want to say that the Romanians do not issue passports to the residents of Bukovina? Sorry, but I somehow weakly believe in it.
                      8. roller2
                        0
                        23 November 2013 21: 03
                        Quote: Hudo
                        Romanians do not issue passports to residents of Bukovina


                        Well, I served a little south wink it really isn’t there.
                  2. 0
                    23 November 2013 19: 50
                    Quote: rolik2
                    during the USSR they didn’t know about the deposits; there were also no production technologies, so they didn’t.

                    that is, you want to say that if the Romanians when they were in the USSR knew about the deposits, would they have thrown it at the Union? I imagined this picture and laugh in my voice, excuse me wassat
                    1. roller2
                      -2
                      23 November 2013 20: 09
                      Quote: andrei332809
                      that is, you want to say that if the Romanians when they were in the USSR knew about the deposits, would they have thrown it at the Union?

                      I’m not a fortuneteller to guess what would happen.
                      You have the same territorial disputes in the Arctic, do not tell me how they go? Are you getting ready to declare war? Or do you decide in a civilized way?
                      1. +2
                        23 November 2013 20: 21
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Or do you decide in a civilized way?

                        Isn't this the Western "civilized" community everywhere with its fists climbing? so, I think, only elementary fear keeps them from military "acquisition" of the Arctic. and the expression "hit on one cheek, turn the other" I consider absolutely not viable. an eye for an eye is closer to me request
                      2. roller2
                        -2
                        23 November 2013 20: 36
                        Quote: andrei332809
                        only elemental fear

                        Is it just Russia's unwillingness to negotiate at all, like "you need to negotiate" laughing I do not care
                      3. +2
                        23 November 2013 20: 39
                        Quote: rolik2
                        I do not care

                        I want to hope that our leaders will not care about all sorts of alien pritenzii with regards to the Arctic
                      4. roller2
                        -1
                        23 November 2013 21: 04
                        Quote: andrei332809
                        I want to hope that our leaders will not care about all sorts of alien pritenzii with regards to the Arctic


                        Maybe our rag turned out to be, negative
                  3. Hudo
                    +3
                    23 November 2013 19: 53
                    Quote: rolik2
                    during the USSR they didn’t know about the deposits; there were also no production technologies, so they didn’t. Do you offer all issues to be solved by scuffle?


                    Not in the presence (absence) of deposits matter! Weight has only strength, weak tear to pieces. T.N. global community or the EU is a wolf pack, and the Romanian hippy gypsy is a jackal carrion with her. They sent a six-jackal to bite to watch the reaction - no reaction, conclusions were drawn - an exhausted stupid game, naivety believing in the inviolability of international law, and in sweet, but empty promises, you can break without fear.

                    Quote: rolik2
                    How are you in Ossetia?


                    You at least look in the profile of who writes and where. Donbass. Lugansk.

                    Quote: rolik2
                    How many of those passports? and are they valid in Ukraine?


                    Didn't catch your thoughts? What is wrong with those passports?
                    1. roller2
                      -1
                      23 November 2013 20: 18
                      Quote: Hudo
                      Weight has only strength, weak tear to pieces. T.N. global community

                      Let's see how you solve your territorial disputes in the Arctic)))
                      In the story with Zmein, it would be more logical to score Romanians on the claims, BUT our president (burn in hell) decided to follow the international community and resolve the issue in a civilized way, as a result .. then shoema ... I think we won’t attack the rake anymore.
                      1. Hudo
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 20: 38
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Let's see how you solve your territorial disputes in the Arctic))


                        The Russian Federation is building up the Northern Fleet, albeit not as fast as we would like and has an icebreaking fleet. This does not take into account the possibility of the transfer of forces and means in the event of a tense situation. So, do not exaggerate.

                        Quote: rolik2
                        In the story with Zmein, it would be more logical to score Romanians on the claims, BUT our president (burn in hell) decided to follow the international community and resolve the issue in a civilized way, as a result .. it is possible.


                        This would be possible ONLY with a strong naval grouping, forces and support from countries with political weight in the world (such support is not and is not expected). And so, without all this, if the president nezalezhnoy stood in a pose - I’m sure that they would have just sent him - go, they say, the disease isn’t sick, because without military power he was simply moose.

                        Quote: rolik2
                        We will not step on the rake anymore.


                        It is doubtful that anyone would be interested in the opinion of the open, especially after the Snake. How sad it is.
                        You know, if a young soldier washed a smelly socks for someone at least once, he should wash it until they are left in the reserve. Is the allegory clear?
              2. maxvet
                0
                23 November 2013 20: 29
                Quote: rolik2
                Only do not touch the Serpent, it is a rock and under international law we would not have received what we have.

                regnum.ru ›The main news of Russia› 1124215.html
                1. roller2
                  +3
                  23 November 2013 20: 48
                  Quote: maxvet
                  regnum.ru ›The main news of Russia› 1124215.html


                  But a really important dispute has flared up around the question of whether Serpentine should be taken into account as a "base point" when drawing an "equidistant line", an essential element of the delimitation procedure. It was here that the Romanian side insisted that "the Serpentine Island is a rock unsuitable for human habitation or economic life at its own expense and therefore does not have an exclusive economic zone or continental shelf, as provided for in article 121 (3) UNCLOS 1982 year "(Paragraph 124).

                  Ukraine stated that Snake Island is part of the coastline of Ukrainian territory, as the 12-mile territorial sea surrounding it intersects with the territorial sea of ​​the mainland coast of Ukraine (Paragraph 126).

                  The Court's conclusion notes: “Serpentine Island requires special attention in determining the temporary equidistance line. In connection with the choice of base points, the Court observes that there have been cases where coastal islands were considered part of the coast of a State, in particular when the coast was formed by a cluster of protruding islands. ..] However, Serpentine Island, located in isolation and about 20 nautical miles from the mainland, does not belong to the cluster of protruding islands that form the coast of Ukraine. Considering the island of Serpents a significant part of the coastline would be tantamount to adding an alien element to the coastline of Ukraine; the consequence will be a legal revision of the geography , which is not recognized by either the law or the practice of delimiting the maritime boundaries. The Court is of the opinion that Serpents' Island cannot be used to form the coastal configuration of Ukraine. [...] time equidistant th line between the coasts of Romania and Ukraine "(Paragraph 149).

                  And let's put an end to this. You can argue, challenge the decision of the court BUT if you face the truth, then everything is decided BY LAW.
                  A few photos from the Snake



                  White Village

                  The vessel "Kasatka" is delivered to them with a shift, food, water, etc.
                  1. Hudo
                    +1
                    23 November 2013 20: 54
                    Quote: rolik2
                    The court is of the opinion that Snake Island cannot be used to form the coastal configuration of Ukraine. [.


                    And who are the judges? (C) sad

                    P.S. Thanks for the photo.
                    1. roller2
                      +1
                      23 November 2013 21: 14
                      Quote: Hudo
                      And who are the judges? (C)

                      It’s clear that the law is like a drawbar, where I turned it there and it turned out, but anyway ......laughing
                      1. Hudo
                        0
                        23 November 2013 21: 29
                        Personally, I see no reason for fun. Ukraine may again lose part of its territory. Romania is trying to present its territorial claims to the Maican island on the Danube. Source: http://censor.net.ua/n118676 The authorities will merge both the island and the fairway, if they give an order, and the Svidomites will be told that we don’t need this island, they themselves have been looking for someone to give it to. An example of how Moldova was made a maritime power, giving access to the banks of the Danube, where they immediately built the port of Giurgiulesti, also did not do without the valuable advice of the euro-"friends" of the nezalezhnoy. And that, walk poverty - a bucket of water and a handful of crackers on the table.
                      2. roller2
                        +3
                        23 November 2013 23: 01
                        Watched the date of the article ?? 14.04.2010/XNUMX/XNUMX
                        A couple of newer no?

                        Quote: Hudo
                        Moldova was made a sea power, giving access to the Danube, where they immediately built the port of Giurgiulesti,

                        What is criminal here? exchanged territory giving Moldova the opportunity to have access to the sea (at the same time for a very long time). And where did you see the port here ?? The pier is 30 meters long and the oil terminal.

                        Why are you friends dragged here ??
                      3. Hudo
                        -1
                        23 November 2013 23: 11
                        Quote: rolik2
                        What is criminal here?


                        And their ports, are they really busy, and can’t cope with the cargo flow? It seems to be how things are not there.
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Why are you friends dragged here ??

                        Really doper themselves how to fool themselves?
                      4. roller2
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 23: 27
                        Quote: Hudo
                        And their ports, are not loaded with work, and not

                        Which ports? And what about our ports and access to the Moldavan sea?

                        Quote: Hudo
                        Really doper themselves how to fool themselves?


                        ???????????????????
                      5. Hudo
                        0
                        23 November 2013 23: 46
                        Quote: rolik2

                        Quote: Hudo
                        Really doper themselves how to fool themselves?


                        ???????????????????


                        Why is it unclear? Part of the cargo flow went to comrades nonsense with incomplete loading of their own ports. And in exchange they got a problem road.
                        As a former wasteland in the region of the Moldavian village of Giurgiulesti turned into a full-fledged competitor to Ukrainian seaports on the Danube. http://cfts.org.ua/articles/46954
                      6. roller2
                        +1
                        23 November 2013 23: 57
                        Quote: Hudo
                        a full competitor to Ukrainian seaports on the Danube.

                        Well, here you are bent)))) there is only a petroleum terminal.
                        There is NO oil terminals for your commemoration in the ports of Ukraine on the Danube.
                        So what kind of competition are you talking about ??
                      7. Hudo
                        0
                        24 November 2013 00: 28
                        Quote: rolik2
                        So what kind of competition are you talking about ??


                        I will not post the entire article. Read http://cfts.org.ua/articles/46954 and draw your own conclusions. hi
                      8. roller2
                        +1
                        24 November 2013 00: 51
                        Quote: Hudo
                        I will not post the entire article.

                        What for do I need these articles ?? I was in Giurgiulesti, and in the port of Reni, Izmial, Vilkovo, Kiliya and saw everything with my own eyes.
                        In Giurgiulesti, there is only a terminal and they don’t accept ANYTHING dry goods there.
                        in our ports no terminals.
                        Turnover 2-4 of the bulk per month.
                        Do not read more such articles from them the brain swells.
                  2. maxvet
                    0
                    23 November 2013 20: 55
                    rolik2 I mean that until we found hydrocarbons on the Snake shelf and no one needed a fig. I apologize if I expressed it clearly
                    1. roller2
                      0
                      23 November 2013 21: 18
                      Quote: maxvet
                      I mean, until they found hydrocarbons on the Snake shelf

                      Sure ????

                      the court also rejected Romania's claim that only a 12-mile zone could exist around Serpentine, which includes only the territorial sea. "The delimitation line drawn by the court confirmed that Zmeinyi Island also has a continental shelf and an exclusive economic zone outside this zone."
                      As a result of the line of delimitation determined by the court, the sea spaces in its area are correlated as 2,1: 1 in favor of Ukraine.
                      Almost all proven oil and gas fields remained on the Ukrainian side
  35. Lesnik
    +1
    23 November 2013 18: 00
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Forestman
    Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!

    what is the truth? Belarus lost a lot of things and sold. For example, the T-80 went to England and Emen. The S-300 also worked hard. And it would be interesting to compare how much was in the USSR and how many now. If the Su-27 is removed from service, and their quantity piece.

    At least they sold and Yusch gave (in fact) a "large air defense" to the Georgians in front of 080808 while exposing the country's air defense (resolution of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine) is this how?
    Why haven't you "sat down" yet? like Yulia and in Belarus it is NOT POSSIBLE in PRINCIPLE !!!!!!!
    In Ukraine, 90 percent. Aviation is not B / G and they are all "piece" on the "knee" extend the resource laughing
    1. Akim
      +2
      23 November 2013 18: 16
      Quote: Forestman
      Why haven't you "sat down" yet? like Yulia and in Belarus it is NOT POSSIBLE in PRINCIPLE !!!!!!!

      Do not give - sold. There is evidence of an illegal transaction - to the Prosecutor General. We’ll be happy to plant.
    2. roller2
      +2
      23 November 2013 18: 16
      Quote: Forestman
      Yusch gave

      Did you see the payments yourself or who told ??
      Do not get tired of quoting "experts" then maybe you can plant why the T-90 was sold for export cheaper than the ancient versions of the same tank that went into service with the country ??
    3. sapran
      +3
      24 November 2013 05: 13
      The latest trend from the "dad" sold all the Su-24s to Sudan, together with the serfs (pilots, those personnel). We haven’t thought of such a move yet (although we’re standing there under the UN flag in Africa, so to speak, the last 10% probably fly)
  36. bevatec
    +3
    23 November 2013 18: 09
    In most of the above facts, you can safely change "Ukraine" to "Russia". But they just did not manage to sell the existing equipment, they stupidly sawed for metal.
  37. Unisonic
    +4
    23 November 2013 18: 40
    Quote: rolik2
    Quote: Forestman
    Why are you minus the guy he is telling the truth !!!!

    A couple of days ago there was an article about the removal from service of the Belarusian Armed Forces Su-27. without replacement. Is it your way ??

    No way. They removed the old stuff in 2013 from weapons - this is quite reasonable. This does not lose potential, it is a completely natural process.

    Another thing is when all the potentials were systematically destroyed, a clear policy of destruction and reduction was carried out. Take for example the Russian absolutely inadequate cut of such weapons as 36 complexes of the RT-23 BZHRK, or the destruction of Tu-160 strategic bombers in Ukraine. What is this if not the deliberate and systematic destruction of one’s own military potential, followed by rolling into shit? And what is surprising is that they are cutting modern weapons, and in the same Georgia we see T-62 tanks with bags of sand in the form of dynamic defense and ancient Su-25 attack aircraft, which, like IL-2, 75 years ago, hit targets and deliver bombing attacks.

    Ukraine is on the edge of "rolling into shit". What they did with the Soviet military and industrial potential is just nonsense. This is a complete collapse. And Belarus? :) We even have Poplars on the Belarusian wheelbase, not to mention any Iskander and S-400.
    1. roller2
      -2
      23 November 2013 18: 53
      Quote: Unisonic
      Another thing is when all the potentials were systematically destroyed ..... or the destruction of Tu-160 strategic bombers in Ukraine

      Why did Ukraine need them ?? Russia was offered but there was no result, and what to do with them?

      Quote: Unisonic
      What they did to the Soviet military and industrial potential is simply nonsense.

      It was clearly redundant for Ukraine, and it was in a not very good condition, worn-out obsolete equipment, manufactured products had no demand, and so on.
      And now the remnants of the Soviet military-industrial complex are not fully loaded.
      1. 0
        23 November 2013 19: 43
        Quote: rolik2
        Russia was offered but there was no result, and what to do with them?
        They didn’t have time to drink, for the money of amers, Russia took as calculation for gas.
        It would be nice to take everything. But it was more interesting for politicians to cut them, and even before the ranks of pilots ....
        1. roller2
          +1
          23 November 2013 19: 50
          Quote: Russ69
          They didn’t have time to drink, for the money of amers, Russia took as calculation for gas.

          slightly wrong wording
          "they barely fused Russia into the gas debt"
          Russia didn’t have money for Wikup, they wanted it for gas so much that they barely fused it.
          We have a slightly different attitude towards the Soviet inheritance, we are trying to make a profit from it, unlike Russia, which quietly sends thousands of tanks for remelting, instead of upgrading them, loading tank repair plants, giving people work, and putting some kind of prince in Africa.
          1. 0
            23 November 2013 19: 55
            Quote: rolik2
            We have a slightly different attitude towards the Soviet inheritance, we are trying to profit from it,
            And what is the profit, when stupidly split, not even at your own expense?
            Or did Russia not need real money? The RF then also sat on loans.
            1. roller2
              -1
              23 November 2013 20: 25
              Quote: Russ69
              And what is the profit, when stupidly split, not even at your own expense?

              Yes, just do not spend money on maintenance + the cost of metal, precious metals and other things.

              Quote: Russ69
              Or did Russia not need real money? The RF then also sat on loans.

              Adequate people understand that in those days everyone had no time for these airplanes, some could not keep them second to buy.
              Only here banderlog speculate on this am
              1. +1
                23 November 2013 20: 57
                Quote: rolik2
                Yes, just do not spend money on maintenance + the cost of metal, precious metals and other things.

                Well, yes, the cost of metal and hardware in the equipment is clearly exactly the cost of the whole plane ..... smile
                Quote: rolik2
                Adequate people understand that in those days everyone had no time for these airplanes, some could not keep them second to buy.

                That was what was not up to the planes. They stupidly earned money, others simply crawled in front of the amers ....
                Only here banderlog speculate on this

                In ... a reasonable answer to all questions when there is nothing to say .... smile
                1. +1
                  23 November 2013 21: 08
                  Quote: Russ69
                  They stupidly earned money, others simply crawled in front of the amers ....

                  Are you talking about Russian officials who did not buy out, greedy Tu-160?
                2. roller2
                  -1
                  23 November 2013 21: 39
                  Quote: Russ69
                  Well, yes, the cost of metal and hardware in the equipment is clearly exactly the cost of the whole plane .....

                  No, of course, but where to get money for the maintenance of unnecessary equipment ??
                  Russia does not, nor does it buy these planes, didn’t even want to take gas debts in a brush.
                  Throw just to rot?
                  Your suggestion?

                  others simply crawled in front of the amers ..

                  You remind about BZHRK ??? And then how did they make money or lie in front of the Americans ??
                  1. +2
                    23 November 2013 22: 12
                    Quote: rolik2
                    You remind about BZHRK ???

                    Unlike Ukraine, the joy of cutting the Tu-160 in Ukraine. In Russia, I do not hear the joy of cutting BZHRK, mostly resentment. Well, there appeared a cautious joy about their rebirth.
                    Quote: rolik2
                    And then how did they make money or lie in front of the Americans ??
                    Alas, we had enough betrayal, but no one justifies it. Well, except for the liberals ...
                    Only with grief in half, we began to correct it. Though with a creak under an hour ....
                    1. roller2
                      +1
                      23 November 2013 22: 17
                      Quote: Russ69
                      the joys of cutting Tu-160 in Ukraine

                      We didn’t feel the joys of annihilation even here, on the frames of the chronicle you can see tears in the eyes of the pilots.
                      Only all the same liberalists were happy, so do not confuse them with the whole people.
                      1. +2
                        23 November 2013 22: 33
                        Quote: rolik2
                        Only all the same liberalists were happy, so do not confuse them with the whole people.
                        God forbid ... I never put an equal sign in front of the people of Ukraine and its government. In other matters, like any other ...
          2. +1
            24 November 2013 02: 05
            Apparently the release of the T-90 is an inadequate loading of factories, but in general you will change the training manual.
    2. 0
      24 November 2013 02: 03
      T-62 in the Russian Federation is exceptional, in the 42-th division and were, nowhere else. With DZ at T-72B everything was in order.
      1. +1
        24 November 2013 03: 42
        Quote: EvilLion
        T-62 in the Russian Federation is exceptional, in the 42-th division and were, nowhere else. With DZ at T-72B everything was in order.

        131 FFM Chita Oblast in the 2000s, before disbanding in 2009, consisted of the T-62.
    3. sapran
      +1
      24 November 2013 05: 16
      Believe me, the guys from KAMAZ and BAZ are working on this annoying misunderstanding, so optimization is going on in this direction ...
  38. +5
    23 November 2013 18: 57
    How funny it is to read "patriots" Square with their eternal "and you, too, are ruined." They have such an answer to everything, at least poke their noses into the facts when Russia is ahead of Ukraine in key industries by an order of magnitude.
    In general, the military budget of Russia for the 2011 year, for other years I was lazy to watch, just opened http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget

    And what we see is that the Russian Federation has a military budget of about 72 billion. This is for an army of a million people, but in fact, maybe less. True, we do not forget about strategic nuclear forces with missiles in mines and shelves.
    Rich Germany in 200 had almost 2001 billion in the 47.
    Brazil's second-class aircraft on 300 + to people spent 35 + billion
    That is, Russia still spends very little, although the share of military expenditures in the budget is large, and we would not have needed more 100 lard. Germany does not have the same strategic nuclear forces.
    Ukraine has a military budget of 2 billion for 200к. Excuse me what? ~ 17 times less than that of Brazil, which, by the way, really has no enemies, because it is stronger than all the neighbors, because they are generally bottoms.
    Well, they will reduce the army to 70 people, while the same 2 billion will be 6 times less than in Brazil. Almost at the level of Bulgaria.
    Yes, indeed, there remains an "army" exclusively for dispersing the Protestants and starving, I think soon they will appear at such a pace. But why is it interesting that we can assume that citizens tired of hopeless poverty and violent Ukrainization will not send Kiev to hell at some point and the Russian Federation will be obliged to intervene, or that the Crimean Tatars, and this contagent is no better than the Chechens, will not arrange an armed mess? Perhaps they just sit and wait for the army, as such, to simply cease to exist, and in fact, for the suppression, far from a couple of thousand people will have to be involved.
    1. Akim
      +1
      23 November 2013 19: 03
      Quote: EvilLion
      Ukraine has a military budget of 2 billion per 200k. Excuse me what?

      Yes, the budget is small. I would like more. Two times.
      1. 0
        23 November 2013 19: 14
        For 70 people, a budget would be nice more than once in 5, if not in 10. This is subject to armament of the BTR-82 level and T-90 tanks, and at least 5-6 fighter squadrons and any sane coverage of the air defense system.
        1. Akim
          +2
          23 November 2013 19: 33
          Quote: EvilLion
          For 70k people, a budget would be nice more than 5 times, if not 10.

          Let's start that not 70, but 120 thousand, then times. Second - why the heck such a bloated budget? To be robbed? And besides, the purchase prices will be completely different. The Poles brought their samples to the exhibition in Kiev "Arms and Security". Everything is 2-3 times more expensive than Ukrainian counterparts. A bullet-proof vest of the same class and weight costs 2,5 times more. And the Americans in Iraq rated the Ukrainian army "Corsairs" above their own.
          1. 0
            23 November 2013 21: 46
            Bloated? And that Ukraine has completely updated its weapons and built apartments for all officers?
            1. +2
              23 November 2013 21: 56
              Quote: EvilLion
              And that Ukraine has completely updated its weapons and built apartments for all officers?

              So they wrote like they did it in the Russian Federation. But where is it in the world? A complete upgrade of weapons?
              1. 0
                24 November 2013 02: 07
                In the Russian Federation, by the way, with the maintenance of officers now it’s even FAT, IMHO. Full is unattainable, but 70% is normal. Ukraine has 0%.
                1. +1
                  24 November 2013 10: 39
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  In the Russian Federation, by the way, with the maintenance of officers now it’s even FAT,

                  There is never much money. And is it oily better than that of the Americans and the EU?
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Complete is unattainable, but 70% is normal. Ukraine has 0%.

                  Where did you get it? Maybe 20-25 percent
            2. Akim
              0
              23 November 2013 22: 25
              Quote: EvilLion
              And that Ukraine has completely updated its weapons and built apartments for all officers?

              This is why a doubled budget is needed. Surprisingly, isn't it, and?
              1. 0
                24 November 2013 02: 08
                And where did you get the idea that this would be enough if even Brazil, having on 1 a soldier in 10 times a larger budget, still sits on second-rate trash?
                1. Akim
                  +2
                  24 November 2013 06: 12
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  And where did you get the idea that this is enough

                  Yes, because it should be 2-2,5% of GDP and, moreover, every year. What is being done there in the country of wild monkeys is of little interest to me. The French, for example, laugh at Poland’s defense budget, and it’s 3 times higher than the Ukrainian one. But at the same time, France is reducing military forces, has put a second aircraft carrier on conservation, has problems with transport aircraft, etc., and Poland is modernizing its army. There is no conditional concept - price determination. This is a complex multi-pass mechanism. Therefore, I say 38 billion hryvnia per year - that's enough. Only, correctly said sapran - if only to finance in full.
            3. sapran
              0
              24 November 2013 05: 04
              For all the time of service (up to retirement) NEVER The budget that was planned for the Armed Forces of Ukraine was not financed until the end. Even all this hype with the sale of property and weapons of the army did not really have an impact on the financing of the army. (only thieves and hangers-on) a small part went to hard workers at repair factories and arsenals for ghosts of equipment to the presentation. With Modernization, it turned out a bit better (but initially everything was very sad)
    2. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 11: 58
      You are right in what to oppose on the principle ... and your milk ran away as it is not serious. And our army in the constitution does not have the right to take part in internal squabbles for these purposes, created an army of explosives and "policemen" + shoblo "curators "
  39. roller2
    0
    23 November 2013 19: 08
    Quote: EvilLion
    How funny it is to read "patriots"


    It's funny to read your attempts to compare the Russian Armed Forces with the Ukrainian. Before making such comparisons, you would at least look at the map and assess the size of countries. If we compare, let's compare Ukraine and the SAME by the size of the territory in Russia in the middle lane, while we will not take into account the rest of Russia's potential, I do not think that the difference will be big.
    1. +6
      23 November 2013 19: 17
      Russia in terms of population is larger than Ukraine in 3.5, although it may already be in 4 times. And the military budget is 35 less. What is incomprehensible here? Militarily, Ukraine, if not Africa, will be soon. I did a brief review of the supply of weapons for Kars, although it is not much work to surpass Ukrainian zero.
      1. roller2
        +1
        23 November 2013 19: 53
        Quote: EvilLion
        What's so incomprehensible?

        Do you appreciate which territory will have to be defended by the Russian Armed Forces, and which by the Ukrainian, how much does it take?
        tell you about the features of logistics in the northern regions? And with such distances ?? How much does it go to provide troops? Whereas we all consider what's nearby.
        1. maxvet
          +1
          23 November 2013 21: 00
          Quote: rolik2
          tell you about the features of logistics in the northern regions? And with such distances ?? How much does it go to provide troops? Whereas we all consider what's nearby.

          you can add (and this is not an unimportant factor) the air defense coverage area — at comparable Ukrainian air defense costs, it will be more effective since they will need to protect a smaller airspace, i.e., for the same amount of air defense of Ukraine will be more saturated per 1 sq km
        2. 0
          23 November 2013 21: 59
          To protect the internal territories of Yakutia from the Yakut bears? Or is it still densely populated border areas in Europe? Maybe enough already to drive bullshit? Only air defense troops are in constant readiness and they cover not so much the northern icy deserts as quite specific objects. Their spread across the country does not explain the difference in 35 times. In the end, he built the radar once, built a small village for staff and capital investments for a long time, you do not need to do it, transport is not the biggest expense item. A rocket priced in lemons will easily block the annual supply of personnel.
          Or maybe still explain why little Germany has a military budget of 23-24 times that of Ukraine with the same number of armies? Even the tiny Netherlands with 65 people spend 12 billion on it.
          Maybe because for the Ukrainian army to bring it to the divine form, 50 lards are needed during the 5 years to replace equipment, and then at least 30 to maintain this level.
          1. roller2
            0
            23 November 2013 22: 31
            Quote: EvilLion
            in small Germany, the military budget is 23-24 times larger than in Ukraine. .. Even the tiny Netherlands ..and then they spend 12 billion on it.


            Dear before waving billions here, it would be better to defend the cost of the equipment that is operated by the people you name and Ukrainian, how much money is needed for its operation, payment for military personnel, benefits and so on. Their prices are not commensurate with ours, that's why the numbers are different.

            If it is not clear I will explain on the numbers
            How much does the Leopard and T-64 tank cost ??
            How much does an Typhoon and Mig-29 flight cost?
            How much does a Leopard and T-64 tank shell cost ??
            how much does a soldier of Germany and Ukraine get ??
            How much does the daily diet cost in Germany and Ukraine?
            Further explain why the sums of expenditures in those countries will ALWAYS be much more?
            1. -1
              24 November 2013 02: 12
              Well, count on PPP, the difference in cost will be times in 2-3. This does not overlap. And in the case of Russia, it is unlikely that at least somewhere 50% will be achieved, even if in Russia the salaries are huge by Ukrainian standards. That is, compared with Russia on this indicator will still be almost the same ratio.
  40. 0
    23 November 2013 20: 18
    the site from "Military Review" has turned into a pitiful political forum where 200 people are driving all sorts of nonsense
    1. maxvet
      +1
      23 November 2013 21: 19
      Are you 201st, or enter 200? According to the article and comments, do not want to discuss such topics, read only military articles, there are enough of them. hi
  41. sashka
    +1
    23 November 2013 20: 54
    Well, nonsense is so nonsense. And what do you personally do here? Do you throw it on the fan?
  42. Marco Antonio
    0
    23 November 2013 21: 21
    Quote: maxvet
    Quote: rolik2
    tell you about the features of logistics in the northern regions? And with such distances ?? How much does it go to provide troops? Whereas we all consider what's nearby.

    you can add (and this is not an unimportant factor) the air defense coverage area — at comparable Ukrainian air defense costs, it will be more effective since they will need to protect a smaller airspace, i.e., for the same amount of air defense of Ukraine will be more saturated per 1 sq km


    Well, here it is really complete nonsense. Apparently, according to your logic, the Russian Federation will have to very strongly cover the area of ​​such subjects as the Republic of Sakha, Magadan Oblast, Chukotka, etc. extremely important territories that everyone wants to seize, especially from the air (apparently including aliens). And the fact that the Russian Federation is acquiring hundreds of the latest aircraft, air defense systems, and so on, which you itself produce, you somehow do not take into account in your model of "air defense coverage efficiency". Well, for example, the fact that in Ukraine the pilots do not even fly on the old stuff that still flies - this is somehow not taken into account in the model. Well, or the fact that the budget of 72 billion USD against 1,8 Ukraine is somehow incomparable too
  43. 13
    13
    +2
    23 November 2013 21: 38
    The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.

    It would be interesting to know the sources of this information.
    1. sashka
      0
      27 November 2013 13: 29
      Quote: Misha 13
      The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.

      Untold dregs. To answer everyone for one blow? It's not about "brotherhood". The point is in the territories for which our ancestors laid down their lives. And now we lay down on all their sacrifices Or we lay ... All other "explanations" do not make sense ..
  44. +1
    23 November 2013 21: 47
    I agree with "Experienced" - Ukraine does not need an army, something tells me that it will soon be sawed, like Poland once did. And then everyone will calm down: some will be with the Psheks, others will be with the Magyars and Mamalyzhniks, the third, respectively, will become Russians.
  45. 0
    23 November 2013 22: 08
    No military power of Ukraine existed. There was a HUGE PIECE of military power of the USSR and the military-industrial complex of the USSR, which appeared in the territory of the USSR.
    But all this after the treacherous collapse of the USSR, which was not defended by the Soviet army, was left to free Ukraine
    All these years provincial thieves, and the American lackeys, have been attacking her, therefore she has been stolen and is finally and irrevocably. THE BEST - STRATEGIC AVIATION, Strategic Rocket Forces, AIRDROM NETWORK - DESTROYED WITH PARTICIPATION OF AMERICAN "FRIENDS" AND ADVISERS.

    It’s for the best, leaving such a military potential to traitors, a Bandera spawn tearing to power - is simply dangerous.

    What is left and is magnificently called “Ukrainian vijsk” - it will scatter during the first five minutes of any conflict, taking the miserable remnants of the under-negotiated.
    Most likely, Ukraine will not be able to survive on its current borders and will crumble into 3-6 parts.

    And the current one is enough with an abundance of companies of the guard of honor from the horde of the lords of the generals and admirals. Which during the reform should be replaced by the mimic of the opera house with an hourly wage - more beautiful. More economical and more efficient.But the police and internal troops are the largest in Europe. But as rotten as everything is there.

    The greatest achievement of the independent military-Ukrainian thought is an attempt to create a special Ukrainian military step - according to the Petliura-Hetman newsreels, and not like those of the damned willows. And that didn't work!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 04: 56
      I understand ... Mourn the USSR. but here you are neither sympathetic nor able to help. Try to accept what has happened and get used to the present day.
  46. unkers82
    0
    23 November 2013 22: 19
    The article exaggerates the "power" of the Ukrainian army by 5-10 times, depending on the type of weapons.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. +1
    23 November 2013 22: 55
    Tremble Poles, Ukraine is coming drinks
    1. +1
      23 November 2013 22: 59
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      Tremble Poles, Ukraine is coming


      Lyakhi together went to change diapers from your battle call !! lol but about this I am not opposed drinks
  49. +6
    23 November 2013 23: 04
    Khramchikhin will not calm down in his "fear of China" and in his phobias before Beijing, he mixed up Ukraine, pedaling an obvious "duck" about the transfer of Ukrainian black soil with serfs to the Chinese for rent. As for the army, however ... Mdaa, it was thanks to the army that Ukraine became independent. Where the Soviet army did not recognize the beginning of the local authorities (Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan), a war began, in which the former SA took part in one form or another. In Ukraine, the Black Sea Fleet did not become Ukrainian, and it seemed that there would be a mess in Crimea in the likeness of Transnistria, but the ground 32nd AK in Crimea was Ukrainian and this "cooled" the situation. Of course, the military in Ukraine deserved more attention and respect for themselves, but the process of reducing the Armed Forces should still be recognized as natural. True, this process itself is rather chaotic and not logical in its embodiment.
  50. 0
    23 November 2013 23: 19
    A question for knowledgeable people under the article: Why have so few Ukrainians sold weapons? We got thousands of units and sold tens or hundreds. Are the rest of the armament from the USSR in warehouses? Our Old Man did not stand on ceremony with this Soviet "happiness".
    1. 0
      23 November 2013 23: 33
      Quote: DesToeR
      Question to knowledgeable people on the article: why so few Ukrainians sold weapons? Received thousands of units, and sold tens or hundreds.

      it’s just that nobody needs trash, but there is no money for modernization, everything is worth it ... uh, they ate.
      they don’t take much new from them, but here B / U.

      Also, at that time, the former countries of the Warsaw bloc were actively selling their junk, there was great competition, besides, a political anti-Russian aspect was imposed, such as selling a suspension to the enemies of Russia (like BUKs) if only the Kremlin would pour salt on its tail.
      or like deck drying in China, so that they copy technology.
      or rotten but matskalyam - nevermind.

      these are the fruits of independence.
      dopanovanysya.

      and it’s not a stupid people, but a working one.
      Seeing just no luck with the rulers.
      1. roller2
        0
        23 November 2013 23: 39
        Quote: Rider
        just to pour salt on the tail of the Kremlin.

        Why are you dragged on to this?
        And has your Kazakhstan become a colony?
        Or is it still an independent state?
        Don’t worry, it’s not long left.
        1. +2
          23 November 2013 23: 54
          Quote: rolik2
          Why are you dragged on to this?

          besides the fact that you are so ... uh, love that you are ready to sell weapons to anyone, just to shoot at the matskals.

          for the rest - without commentary, since Nenko has a greater chance of independence.
          1. +1
            24 November 2013 10: 44
            Quote: Rider
            love that you are ready to sell weapons to anyone, only to shoot at matskals.

            You yourself also love that you sell weapons to anyone, both the Chinese and the Americans.
          2. Ivan Sirko
            -2
            24 November 2013 16: 11
            I would personally sell to someone who would shoot you, because a dumb life is meaningless.
            1. +1
              24 November 2013 20: 20
              Quote: Ivan Sirko
              because a dumb life is meaningless.

              it will be written on your epitaph.

              in your case, it’s better to chew.
              1. Ivan Sirko
                0
                24 November 2013 20: 46
                Honestly, I like to chew, especially shish kebab, and with a Kherson tomato, and homemade vodka (if the saliva runs out, I'll send it, feel the difference)
                But essentially, in addition to insults, what ...?
                1. +2
                  24 November 2013 20: 48
                  Quote: Ivan Sirko
                  But essentially, in addition to insults, what ...?

                  Are you asking yourself this?

                  Reread your first koment.
                  there someone something about "shot" blurted out.

                  Byad with these Svidomo, they do not know what they are writing.
                  1. Ivan Sirko
                    -3
                    25 November 2013 00: 36
                    Shooting enemies is a positive, conscious affair, in Ukrainian language - to the right of the house.
  51. roller2
    +1
    24 November 2013 00: 03
    Quote: Rider
    Quote: rolik2
    Why are you dragged on to this?

    besides the fact that you are so ... uh, love that you are ready to sell weapons to anyone, just to shoot at the matskals.


    Are you holding a morality contest among buyers of YOUR weapons??
    Don’t talk nonsense, as your comrades said, justifying themselves “It’s just business”
    1. +1
      24 November 2013 00: 11
      Quote: rolik2
      Are you holding a morality contest among buyers of YOUR weapons??

      Give an example of when Russian weapons fired at Ukrainian military personnel.

      You can answer tomorrow, I’ll stop by and read it.

      however, I am sure that you will remain silent AS ALWAYS.
      there is nothing to say about the matter, just verbiage.
      1. roller2
        +2
        24 November 2013 00: 26
        Ukraine did not fight.
        And it’s not the weapon that shoots, but the person. You don’t need to talk nonsense here, or do you need to give examples where thousands of people were killed with Russian weapons? So that you will shoot those who made it??
        1. +2
          24 November 2013 00: 55
          So I’m waiting for examples when your soldiers were killed with Russian weapons.
          and here's some interesting information: It is reported that in the period from May 27 to August 8, 2008, 25 Grad-M shipborne multiple launch rocket systems, the Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system, which had previously been on combat duty in the Ukrainian armed forces, 4 stations, were delivered to Georgia radio-technical reconnaissance "Kolchuga", 15 combat modules "Shkval", 16 armored personnel carriers, a radio jamming complex "Mandate" and almost 2 million large-caliber charges.

          http://lenta.ru/news/2008/12/11/weapon/


          how well they prepared it, right at the beginning of the battles, and one more thing: According to the Verkhovna Rada commission to investigate the supply of Ukrainian weapons to Georgia, supplies of military equipment and weapons were carried out at prices that were significantly lower than those established on the world market. Thus, the Buk-M1 air defense system was sold for only 20 million dollars, while Pakistan offered 100 million for it.

          Well, whatever you can do to let the matskali bleed.
          1. roller2
            +1
            24 November 2013 01: 04
            Russia has noticeably intensified cooperation with Uganda, Angola, Ethiopia, Cameroon, Congo, Nigeria, Tanzania and Zambia. Rosoboronexport is taking concrete steps to promote Russian military and dual-use products to countries such as Kenya, Botswana, Cote d'Ivoire, Djibouti, Central African Republic, Gabon, Ghana, Niger, Chad, Gambia, Sudan and Zimbabwe.


            Maybe add more photos of blacks killed by Russian weapons???
            Or don’t you defend them for people?

            According to the Verkhovna Rada commission to investigate the supply of Ukrainian weapons to Georgia, supplies of military equipment and weapons were carried out at prices that were significantly lower than those established on the world market. Thus, the Buk-M1 air defense system was sold for only 20 million dollars, while Pakistan offered 100 million for it.

            And you better tell your children these fairy tales at night so that they hate it more.
            Found some speeches to cite as an example, liberals are fucked....x
            1. 0
              24 November 2013 01: 25
              Quote: rolik2
              Maybe add more photos of blacks killed by Russian weapons???

              what are you talking about?
              So you will ban knives, they can very easily thin out the population of bipedal erectus.

              and I gave an example of a SPECIAL sale of weapons to the enemies of Russia, and even at a loss, and even on the eve of the war, just to let the Russians bleed as quickly as possible.

              You haven’t provided a single link, you’ve EVERYTHING IN WORDS.
              then a friend told you in confidence. then you yourself don’t notice any Romanians.

              one word - EMPTY TALK.

              You better look for ARGUMENTS, not your verbiage.

              I'll drop by tomorrow and check.

              before tomorrow.
              1. roller2
                +1
                24 November 2013 01: 45
                Dear, I gave a quote from a Russian site, to whom Russia sells weapons in Africa, you can find it yourself, otherwise you will say that the links are incorrect.

                You yourself provide me with information, but CONSCIOUSLY do not mention that it was not later confirmed.

                Have you found a reliable source “Commission to Investigate the Supplies of Ukrainian Arms to Georgia”, what happened as a result of the investigation??

                You can also provide a video of a Russian general where he shows fake documents from Ukraine. transit numbers and tells the tragic story of Ukrainian mercenaries with Ukrainian passports and moving around Georgian territory on diplomatic numbers.
                1. 0
                  24 November 2013 13: 13
                  Quote: rolik2
                  You yourself provide me with information, but CONSCIOUSLY do not mention that it was not later confirmed.

                  and where can I find out about this?
                  Did you even provide at least one link?
                  Quote: rolik2
                  You can also provide a video of a Russian general where he shows fake documents from Ukraine. transit numbers and tells the tragic story of Ukrainian mercenaries with Ukrainian passports and moving around Georgian territory on diplomatic numbers.

                  Well, first of all, I haven’t seen this material, and secondly, on what grounds did you reach your verdict?
                  fake documents?


                  Did someone whisper this in your ear AGAIN?
                  or will you provide PROOF AT LEAST ONCE?
                  1. roller2
                    -1
                    24 November 2013 13: 39
                    Quote: Rider
                    or will you provide PROOF AT LEAST ONCE?

                    Why would I bring them to you? You are here trying to prove something to me, while attracting the chatter of liberals by the ears, and as for the general and his statements, I slightly distinguish transit numbers from diplomatic ones, and even those passports that he showed in databases did not travel outside of Ukraine. Want to make sure? Look, there were a lot of reports about this at that time. For me, this fact has been proven; the absence of any information about bringing anyone to criminal responsibility for what you talked about above is confirmation of this.
                    1. +1
                      24 November 2013 13: 48
                      Quote: rolik2
                      Why would I bring them to you?


                      that is, again BLA BLA BLA

                      Enough with the idle talk already.

                      either provide EVIDENCE of your words, or go and powder the Moscow of others, I’m already tired of listening to your rantings.

                      or play in the sandbox.
              2. sapran
                0
                24 November 2013 04: 42
                Collect more myths. Russia is guided exclusively by pragmatic considerations and it is 100% right since it is the direct responsibility of the state machine to worry about the well-being of the country's citizens.
                What's wrong with the same long-suffering Georgia? Has UN sanctions been imposed on this country? Or did she invade Russian territory? Apparently not. So what's the catch?
                Russia supplies large quantities of weapons to Azerbaijan and Armenia, although they have a bloody wound (Karabakh), what is it guided by? Purely pragmatic. There has been a civil war in Syria for 2 years. Sanctions have been imposed to ban the trade in arms (but if you really want to, then both the rebels and government troops can do it (you really want to eat))
                So there are no saints here, everyone has their face in a cannon...
          2. roller2
            0
            24 November 2013 01: 50
            Quote: Rider
            Well, whatever you can do to let the matskali bleed.


            Well, why did you go there??
            Have you decided to try Georgian blood?
            Or was it necessary to make excuses for the defeat in the Chechen conflicts??

            In Ukraine, a godfather will score a friend's eye, even if the godfather is a pussy....s.
            1. +1
              24 November 2013 13: 18
              Quote: rolik2
              Well, why did you go there??
              Have you decided to try Georgian blood?


              I understand that a country like UK...uh Zimbabwe, Burkina Faso, or Lower Pompedusia CANNOT protect its citizens when they are under armed attack.

              but countries like Russia are quite capable of doing this.

              In addition, the Georgians attacked Russian peacekeepers, which is a CRIME under any international law.

              however, you may not know this.
              as well as many other things.
              1. sapran
                0
                24 November 2013 13: 36
                Everything secret sooner or later becomes clear. I personally saw a fight between two observers who claimed mutually exclusive data on this conflict. So over time everything will become clear. It's still dark there.
                1. 0
                  24 November 2013 13: 46
                  Quote: sapran
                  So over time everything will become clear. It's still dark there.

                  Sorry if it’s too harsh, but stop talking about this nonsense about “nothing is known for sure, and everyone is to blame”
                  Georgia attacked first - this is a FACT.
                  Russia responded - this is also a FACT.
                  The Georgians received a shock - IN FACT!

                  and the fact that the Russians were waiting and preparing for an attack is a no brainer, which is why they pulled up the troops to the Kodori in advance.
                  Apparently intelligence has come to the rescue, and the General Staff is not only able to receive additional rations.

                  it would be much worse if it were the other way around.
                  like 22 06 41.

                  and everything else is from the evil one.

                  By the way, this is your phrase
                  I personally saw a fight between two observers

                  makes me think that you were there?
                  or am i wrong?
                  1. sapran
                    -1
                    24 November 2013 16: 56
                    and I am inclined to believe that this is a planned provocation on the part of the Russian Federation.
                    1. as the stars of GDP and Obama agreed and decided so (the Americans received a bonus in another region by turning a blind eye to kicking Georgia (they promised to hit without hurting))
                    2. The strike was calculated from two directions: Abkhazia and Tskhinvali (introducing troops and assets into Abkhazia, replacing local cliques with retirees from Russia, carrying out provocations in both directions)
                    4. Excellent informational component of this operation.
                    3. Georgians didn’t count on tricks, the president fulfilled what he promised his people during the elections, but as in that joke... I’m sorry I couldn’t ..
                    1. 0
                      24 November 2013 17: 08
                      Quote: sapran
                      as the stars of GDP and Obama agreed and decided (the Americans received a bonus in another region

                      in which, and which?
                      Quote: sapran
                      The strike was calculated from two directions: Abkhazia and Tskhinvali (introducing troops and assets into Abkhazia, replacing local cliques with retirees from Russia, carrying out provocations in both directions)

                      the fact that the Russian army was in Abkhazia is a fact, as is the fact that it did NOT take part in the war.
                      But what about confirmation of provocations?
                      on what basis did you draw your conclusions 7
                      Quote: sapran
                      The information component of this operation was carried out perfectly.

                      are you talking about how all the Western media said that it was Russia that started the war 7
                      truly brilliant.
                      Quote: sapran
                      Georgians did not count on throws,

                      Well, that’s right, that’s why it’s hailing around the city. and our peacekeepers with tanks.
                      Big guys from the West promised them that Russia would not intervene.
                      You don’t remember which of the American leaders came to Georgia on the eve of the war.
                      They were probably discussing the supply of Borjomi to the USA.

                      I can ask you to CONFIRM your...uh versions.
                      So I advise you to formulate your posts MORE CAREFULLY.

                      By the way, what kind of observers did you see fighting among themselves?
                      1. sapran
                        -1
                        24 November 2013 17: 30
                        First, the United States calmly resolved all issues in Afghanistan and Iraq and prepared for a series of operations on the theme “Muslim spring.” A number of allies and proxies of Russia were merged. Bonus is normal.
                        Well, the proud Abkhazians suddenly had MLRS and self-propelled artillery to demolish everything, I believe that the built railway road has nothing to do with it, and what is the status of these forces on the territory of an independent state? Mortar and rocket attacks on Georgian villages from Tskhinvali were noted by all observers with the exception of the “Russian peacekeeping forces” and there are reports about this. By the way, regarding the destruction from the so-called night Grads on the Georgian side, please present the report of international observers and the commission (possibly in English). If any of the Russian artillerymen made a mistake, it was only a little. and so here the situation with the “peacekeepers” is very similar to the situation on the Finnish border in 2... and about the very combat-ready Tskhinvali militias, it’s all creative, the Chechens agree, well done “massed Cossacks”...
                        One was caught by shelling at the base of your peacekeepers, the second came under attack in the Georgian village, each proved by the fact that the Georgians and Russians opened fire, respectively
                      2. +2
                        24 November 2013 17: 57
                        Quote: sapran
                        First, the United States calmly resolved all issues in Afghanistan and Iraq and prepared for a series of operations on the theme “Muslim Spring”

                        How can you CONFIRM that the Russian Federation wanted to stop them there?
                        Quote: sapran
                        Yes, the proud Abkhazians suddenly had MLRS and self-propelled artillery in order to demolish everything, I believe that the laid railway

                        and I already said that Russia was preparing for war, remember 7
                        just PREPARE for war, this is not STARTING a war.
                        Quote: sapran
                        Mortar and rocket attacks on Georgian villages from Tskhinvali were noted by all observers with the exception of the “Russian peacekeeping forces” and there are reports about this.

                        Was it the Russian Armed Forces that carried them out?
                        and the reverse attacks, too?
                        Quote: sapran
                        By the way, regarding the destruction from the so-called night Grads on the Georgian side, please provide a report from international observers and the commission (possible in English)

                        post, do you want to say that Grads were not used?
                        or did they not fire at Tskhinvali?
                        or that Russian peacekeepers were not attacked?
                        Are you by any chance in a parallel universe?
                        But can you confirm everything else (the Chechens at the peacekeepers’ base on the FIRST DAY of the attack)?

                        but I warned you that I would require EVIDENCE.
                        and not just words.
                        Don’t disappoint me, don’t be like Kars.
                      3. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 18: 14
                        don't troll.
                        1. why is it suddenly so complicated?
                        2. there is the concept of “incident-white” Just well done for implementing it
                        3. This was carried out with the connivance (to put it mildly) of your peacekeeping forces. reciprocal the fire was noted in the observers' reports.
                        4. what are you, I don’t communicate through the portal, the crystal ball was stolen by evil trolls
                        5. “Can you confirm everything else (the Chechens at the peacekeepers’ base on the FIRST DAY of the attack)?” Are you in the astral plane or communicating with your own flight of thoughts? It’s difficult for me to keep up with you. I didn’t write such nonsense, I just emphasized that the use of the Chechen battalion had a very high moral effect on Georgians, but everything else (fiction)
                        Turning the text upside down definitely doesn't look good on you.
                        and I remind you that I wrote above that this is exclusively my vision of the problem
                      4. +1
                        24 November 2013 18: 31
                        1 justify how and why the Russian Federation interfered with the United States in Afghanistan and Iraq
                        2 are you not a fan of Rezun, who claimed that the USSR FORCED Hitler to attack?
                        3 EVIDENCE!
                        pliiiizz
                        4 I don’t know who you are communicating with, but if you DENIAL the use of Georgian grads, and the shelling and killing of Russian peacekeepers, then you need to stop this.
                        return to the real world
                        Quote: sapran
                        I didn’t write such nonsense, I just emphasized that the use of the Chechen battalion had a very high moral effect on Georgians

                        in this case, you should formulate your thoughts MORE CAREFULLY
                        (I warned you)
                        because the paragraph we are discussing is very... well, kind of incoherently written.
                        and peacekeepers and artillerymen and Chechens were shoved into one paragraph, and I blame you.

                        and yet I would like DOCUMENTARY evidence,
                        and provocations and the Russian-US “agreement”, and the guilt of the Russian Federation in starting the war, and not just words.
                        If you still want to do without docks, then I advise you to stop the discussion.
                        because everything will come down to BLAH BLAH BLAH.
                      5. sapran
                        0
                        24 November 2013 18: 54
                        Yes, you are right, everything tends to distort, so it’s worth ending with the offtopic.
                        PY.SY I'm not a Resunoid...
                      6. 0
                        24 November 2013 19: 00
                        Quote: sapran
                        Yes you are right

                        deal
                        Quote: sapran
                        I'm not Rezunoid..

                        happy for you

                        wish you hello.
              2. Ivan Sirko
                -2
                24 November 2013 20: 54
                but countries like Russia are quite capable of doing this.

                You pay tribute to Chechnya. What else can you do?
                1. +1
                  24 November 2013 20: 59
                  Quote: Ivan Sirko
                  You pay tribute to Chechnya. What else can you do?


                  build nuclear reactors
                  ships, icebreakers, planes
                  fly into space

                  and level the cities into rubble
                  take enemy capitals by storm


                  and you ?
                  1. sapran
                    0
                    24 November 2013 21: 54
                    Of course, I’m wildly sorry, but Kazakhstan already has nuclear reactors, and produces ICEBREAKERS (where are you floating them?)
                    1. +1
                      24 November 2013 22: 19
                      Quote: sapran
                      And Kazakhstan already has nuclear reactors, and produces ICEBREAKERS

                      and you re-read the first post with which this...uh, inadequate, got into an argument.
                      After all, by the words “you pay tribute to Chechnya” he meant Russia.
                      So I responded as if on her behalf.

                      besides, I have some right to say so, since I served in the Russian Armed Forces

                      so it’s not for this nerd to talk about “tribute”.
                    2. 0
                      24 November 2013 22: 23
                      And what does Kazakhstan have to do with it? He is Russian.
                2. 0
                  24 November 2013 21: 45
                  Svidomo, who told you this? Tyagnibok?
                  Kadyrov and Putin don’t communicate with you.
          3. +1
            24 November 2013 10: 45
            By the way, the Russian Federation also sold weapons to Georgia, so it remains to be seen. And in Chechnya, Russian officers and soldiers sold weapons, and sometimes colleagues, to Chechen militants.
            1. +4
              24 November 2013 12: 44
              There have been enough scoundrels at all times and among all peoples....
          4. Ivan Sirko
            -4
            24 November 2013 20: 49
            Don't go where they're bleeding you.
            That's it.
            1. +2
              24 November 2013 20: 56
              Quote: Ivan Sirko
              Don't go where they're bleeding you.

              don’t go where grown-ups are talking, and you won’t be a laughing stock

              or better yet, keep quiet, maybe you’ll pass for smart
            2. Lesnik
              0
              24 November 2013 23: 13
              What are you trying to achieve, dear? What is the point of these offensive comments of yours? To hurt more? There are plenty of freaks everywhere and it doesn’t depend on the flag! If you have deigned to communicate, then BE SO KIND and do not insult your opponent!
              1. Lesnik
                0
                25 November 2013 00: 38
                my comment is for CHEESE
  52. bubble82009
    +1
    24 November 2013 00: 46
    the author of the article does not know the current situation in Ukraine well. there are plenty of people willing to fight against Russia. August 2008 showed this. Ukrainian instructors sat as operators behind radar screens in Georgia and shot down Russian planes. There were also Ukrainian special forces who fought against ground forces. in 2 wars in Chechnya there were battalions of Ukrainian nationalists. so there will be someone there to defend European integration. It’s another matter for Ukrainian politicians, they will quickly run to extend a hand of friendship to the “Russian official.”
    1. +1
      24 November 2013 04: 00
      Yeah, battalions. Of several bandits who in their homeland would be happy to send them somewhere.
    2. +1
      24 November 2013 18: 41
      And also combat humanoid Ukrainian robots!
    3. Lesnik
      0
      25 November 2013 00: 40
      Facts to the studio... And Blah Blah this is for the Gay Europeans!!!
  53. +1
    24 November 2013 00: 55
    Quote: O_RUS
    "So why can't I remember Ivan the Terrible's guardsmen?"

    do not trifle ... Invite Serdyukov

    it feels like they already had Serdyukov - the same teams, optimization, reductions, and the sale of everything
  54. soldier's grandson
    +2
    24 November 2013 01: 14
    I started reading the article and immediately spat, “Ukraine got it, etc.”, you can continue: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus and beyond, who is killing whom and who is stronger, understand We were destroyed, the army, the Union and then gladiatorial fights? Everyone needs to wake up and see what happened and what happened to us and what we need to do next
  55. soldier's grandson
    +1
    24 November 2013 01: 14
    I started reading the article and immediately spat, “Ukraine got it, etc.”, you can continue: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus and beyond, who is killing whom and who is stronger, understand We were destroyed, the army, the Union and then gladiatorial fights? Everyone needs to wake up and see what happened and what happened to us and what we need to do next
  56. sapran
    +3
    24 November 2013 01: 26
    Good evening (night) everyone.
    “thank you” to the author for clarifying the obvious. (kick Ukraine)
    1. It’s more or less a coincidence in the numbers that we got.
    2. Assessment of the military-industrial complex of a “specially” surface format (as the average temperature in the ward)
    3. The 100% correct conclusion is that “they screwed up the polymers”; it’s stupid to say anything to the contrary.
    4. Well, what can you do? I don’t have a statesman in my homeland, all of them are “temporary workers”, grabbers and jerks + the best “party nomenklatura” in the vastness of the former USSR (note that they are not COMMUNISTS, but the nomenklatura)
    So what do you want from those who are peddling deficits?!
    5 All of the above + help from outside from all vectors and directions led to a logical result - "...We can do it!" (L. Kravchuk)
  57. EdwardTich68
    0
    24 November 2013 01: 52
    And it serves them right, cunning and intelligence are two different things. laughing
  58. 0
    24 November 2013 02: 36
    Very instructive. In short, Serdyukovism to its fullest. Sometimes news about updates in the Ukrainian Armed Forces pops up here, and it’s funny to even be distracted by them. Let's see how EuroMaidan ends.
  59. Severomorsk
    +1
    24 November 2013 02: 39
    Why do Sweden and Ukraine have the same color flags?
    They say that enterprising Ukrainians picked up Swedish flags near Poltava...
  60. 0
    24 November 2013 06: 59
    Last news. Two (so far two) Ukrainian cities have declared that they are in Europe. I wonder whether Ukraine will split or not...
    1. +1
      24 November 2013 07: 52
      Srakashvili already fought under the banner of geyropa...
      1. Akim
        0
        24 November 2013 09: 16
        Quote: serviceman.
        servant.

        What kind of SERVANT are you?
      2. sapran
        +1
        24 November 2013 11: 49
        AKIM...Well, why be so categorical? Servants are different, after all. Not necessarily from an advertising booklet about the delights of serving in the army of the Russian Federation. But maybe from the authorities or the “morality police”, too, after all, it’s some kind of service.
        1. Akim
          -1
          24 November 2013 12: 50
          Quote: sapran
          But maybe from the authorities or the “morality police”, too, after all, it’s some kind of service.

          Then it's a SERVANT. Because all punitive bodies serve the authorities, not the country.
    2. Akim
      +2
      24 November 2013 09: 31
      Quote: Zomanus
      I wonder whether Ukraine will split or not...

      Baby talk or the words of Russian journalists November-December 2004. How do you even imagine this? The process itself.
      1. 0
        24 November 2013 14: 19
        Quote: Akim
        How do you even imagine this? The process itself.
        AkimGod forbid you even imagine it. And even more so to watch and be a participant.
  61. +5
    24 November 2013 09: 37
    You read all this trouble, I’m not talking about the article, by the way, I liked it, I’m talking about what’s happening. It’s amazing how our entire “commonwealth” is still holding up. Clearly the guardian angel is itching. And those geopolitical interests that are happening in the world today and the emergence of new players. They are clearly distracting our main Enemies from direct violence.
    Russia has a unique opportunity in this mess to rearm and take the same, or even new, positions.
    1. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 11: 30
      God forbid! So that your desires coincide with your capabilities. Russia has a lot of territory to develop and move towards prosperity.
  62. +1
    24 November 2013 13: 02
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: sapran
    But maybe from the authorities or the “morality police”, too, after all, it’s some kind of service.

    Then it's a SERVANT. Because all punitive bodies serve the authorities, not the country.


    You are an ordinary boor! When you lack reason in an argument, you get personal and sink to the level of cattle!
    1. Akim
      0
      24 November 2013 14: 05
      Quote: serviceman.
      When you lack reason in an argument, you get personal and sink to the level of cattle!

      Did I contact you personally? I consider all the police/police, SBU/FSB to be servants of the authorities. Of course there are normal people there, but they are in the minority, unlike the army. That's why I asked: What kind of serviceman are you?
      1. +1
        24 November 2013 15: 56
        Who are you Akim? Don’t you think it’s somehow stupid to draw any conclusions about a person based on a nickname? This is the same as saying that since he called himself akimka, he is a man of a servile tribe... In your opinion, it turns out something like this.
        Do you also consider the police in geyropas to be servants of the authorities? It’s just interesting...
        Just so you can calm down, I have nothing to do with the institutions you mentioned, although I believe that they are necessary for the functioning of any state...
        1. Akim
          +1
          24 November 2013 17: 22
          Quote: serviceman.
          Who are you Akim?

          I'm Kim and this is my name, I don't hide behind nicknames. And in my avatar my namesake is Prince Akim. Any nickname must probably mean something. Therefore, something must connect you with such a proud designation. So far, according to your messages, not very much.
          1. +1
            24 November 2013 17: 44
            Wow, you would like to be of royal blood! If you have a desire to associate your nickname with something, connect it, the Internet will help you!
  63. The comment was deleted.
    1. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 13: 23
      Sorry, but all of the above can more than apply to YOU. You do decent trolling in all topics. Rudeness and racist statements also slip through, but you are probably right in one respect: the grammar of rudeness is higher. can't be taken away from here.
      1. 0
        24 November 2013 13: 27
        Quote: sapran
        Rudeness and racist remarks also creep in,


        Examples!!! I personally didn’t notice you in the “commentators” of my posts....
        And if something “was” that I didn’t notice, then why are the moderators and admins silent?
        Such things do not go unpunished with them, and the only (I hope further) warning confirms this.

        And you are a lawyer, a person whose goal is TROLLING, which is confirmed by the entry in your personal profile..
        1. sapran
          0
          24 November 2013 13: 51
          I do not seek to interfere in the dispute everywhere (there is hope to see a rational grain on both sides) ...
          1. -1
            24 November 2013 14: 09
            Quote: sapran
            I do not seek to interfere in the dispute everywhere (there is hope to see a rational grain on both sides) ...

            And where do you think the “rational grain” is in the comment with another, I emphasize, insult addressed to me from Kars?

            I restrained myself for a long time...

            In general, the rules of the site require that you contact the administration with a request to resolve the conflict.

            But I didn’t grow up in the right environment to run and complain.
            I told the goat part of what I thought about him, and God willing, it will carry me through...
            1. sapran
              0
              24 November 2013 16: 17
              The rules of the site are like a law; they seem to exist for all citizens of the country, but in fact they are selective, for example, I still don’t understand why they are banned forever (this is strictly the priority of the Moderator). If the topic did not concern what he gave more than 20 years of his life to, he would have passed by all these Ukrainophobes and “patriots”. The article is just about remembering. Where is the analysis on the military-industrial complex? How long did the enterprise operate at the end of the cycle? Who initiated the collapse of cooperation? The article does not encourage this. Also, despite the fact that due to the lack of government officials and a generally negative streak, there were small victories nonetheless (even if only on the scale of a small young state)
              1. 0
                25 November 2013 03: 34
                Quote: sapran
                The rules of the site are like a law; they seem to exist for all citizens of the country, but in fact they are selective, for example, I still don’t understand why they are banned forever (this is strictly the priority of the Moderator).

                Second warning TO ME from the administration for kicking the troll Kars, refutes your post about a certain “selectivity” of the site rules.
                And if the first (old) remark was made for a spontaneous, overly heated comment, then in relation to this stoner I acted consciously, understanding what it could cost me.
                You just can't be silent anymore...
    2. +1
      24 November 2013 14: 10
      Quote: Corsair
      At the risk of getting a warning, I’ll still express everything I think about you, troll

      Thanks for the troll. I’m trying. And how brave)))
      Quote: Corsair
      Who gave you the right to evaluate the intelligence of this or that user?

      And that someone should be given the right to this? I appreciated yours, based on the facts - your comments, so that you would understand - I justified his very low level (of your intelligence, naturally). By the way, I can express my condolences to you on this matter.
      Quote: Corsair
      Your comments are full of grammatical and stylistic errors.
      But I have never hidden or denied this, and I defiantly refuse to use auto-correction. And in fact, my grammar doesn’t stop you from responding to my writing? But you can’t show off your intelligence, and you’re left with spelling.

      Quote: Corsair
      You are a carrion, you are engaged in ordinary trolling, inciting anti-Ukrainian sentiments on the site

      And you won’t get sick. The mere fact that you’re so uptight takes my trolling to a high level))) And anti-Ukrainian sentiments—excuse me for great worship before ..Big, eldest..brother I don’t suffer.
      Quote: Corsair
      then blaming others for it.

      Why blame? There’s no place to put the mark of Ukrainophobe on you.
      Quote: Corsair
      You belong in the garbage, you fucking European.
      Well, I’m not pretending to take your place. But thank you for the European. You seem to have a thing about gays? You mention them so often, perhaps you’re latent and afraid of coming out?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          24 November 2013 14: 32
          Quote: Corsair
          I see ten people like you in the light

          And that’s all you had enough for? And why should I take your word for it, what do you see there? I can assume that you are tormented by hallucinations. Which, by the way, is perfectly consistent with the low-intellectual nonsense that you are spouting. There is a complete lack of comprehension, only some kind of standards and phobias.
          Quote: Corsair
          along with your lace pantaloons.

          Does this excite you? Lace pantaloons? Are you afraid to try them on yourself, and do you fantasize about other men?
          1. -2
            24 November 2013 14: 39
            Quote: Kars
            And that's all you had enough for?
            I don’t see the point in “wasting pearls before a pig”...
            1. +2
              24 November 2013 14: 43
              Quote: Corsair
              I don’t see the point in “wasting pearls before a pig”...

              pearls)))) you are flattering yourself)))

              and it would be better if you thought about this in the comments 15-20 ago. Otherwise it’s like that on pearl))).
              1. +1
                25 November 2013 04: 00
                Full name: Kars, you can do it without formalities
                Group: Banned

                Well, nevermind, marshals, even virtual ones, are already being banned. What can we say about lower ranks... Well, that’s it, in horror I tucked my tail into its proper recess and fell into the fog...
                1. 0
                  25 November 2013 04: 53
                  Quote: Nagan
                  Well, nevermind, marshals, even virtual ones, are already being banned. What can we say about lower ranks... Well, that’s it, in horror I tucked my tail into its proper recess and fell into the fog...

                  I was stunned when I read your comment. But together with this troll I could have “asked” for something bad...
                  So he was already tired of expressing a small amount of complaints to him without mincing words.
                  It passed, got off with a warning.
                  From now on I promise to try to adhere to the rules of the site.
                  Presence at VO and communication with adequate people is more expensive than fighting with presumptuous scumbags...
  64. Ivan Sirko
    0
    24 November 2013 14: 37
    They argue here, they argue... but about what? Russia has one goal, Ukraine has another. We are a small country, not an empire and do not strive to be a hegemon. Accordingly, we are developing differently.
    But you... You would grab everyone who is next to you. Yes, there is a problem: the strength is not enough, the navel can come undone, and you need to act with an eye on Europe and the hated America (and you hate it because it is stronger and more successful than you), which is why many Communist-Nazis are writhing in convulsions with the snot.
    1. 0
      24 November 2013 15: 29
      Quote: Ivan Sirko
      We are a small country, not an empire and do not strive to be a hegemon.
      But don’t sign for everyone. And there are many such examples.
      1. Ivan Sirko
        +1
        24 November 2013 15: 32
        Sorry, I can’t sign for all the de Beales.
  65. +2
    24 November 2013 15: 27
    In relation to the development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then, accordingly, in the absence of threats, the government does not see the need for its development; rather, on the contrary, you can make money on its corpse (become involved in corruption). A similar situation existed in Russia in the 90s and early 2000s; if not for Chechnya and the huge number of threats, the situation would have been similar to the Ukrainian one. In order to be strong, Russia paid with the blood of a large number of its citizens, of military age and beyond.
  66. Lesnik
    0
    24 November 2013 16: 01
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Forestman
    Why haven't you "sat down" yet? like Yulia and in Belarus it is NOT POSSIBLE in PRINCIPLE !!!!!!!

    Do not give - sold. There is evidence of an illegal transaction - to the Prosecutor General. We’ll be happy to plant.


    According to the documents - yes, I sold it, but I still haven’t paid off!!!! (that’s why I wrote it - in fact it was a gift) This is precisely why the “NSDC decision” was made. I haven’t seen it in the open press. But take my word for it, I read it with my own eyes!
    1. sapran
      +1
      24 November 2013 16: 35
      Wow! how interesting... The main problem is the legacy of the 90s...
      Those in power were corrupted by the presence of delegations wandering around the country with suitcases of freshly stuffed dollars. only here, with a short interval, the delegations of Pakistan and India entered the same doors. In the morning, the board with ammunition leaves for Azerbaijan, and at that moment a train with broken Armenian T-72s arrives at Kyiv-Tovarny, the SALESNESS of the nomenclature ruined the country because there is no other option here.
      If in those days they did not think about international lawyers, now they sign a contract alone, but the burden and sanctions are on the whole people. Everything we have is top-notch, "decorated"
    2. Akim
      0
      24 November 2013 17: 36
      Quote: Forestman
      But take my word for it, I read it with my own eyes!

      I can remember my distant, clumsy design past and in half an hour create an electronic fake in Photoshop that is indistinguishable from the real thing. True - only with a wet seal, as well as the original photo or video, without traces of editing. In the electronic version - with a special code That's why any programs on TV are not worth a damn. That's why I say. There is evidence provided not to me, but to those who are in charge of this case. It didn’t go into the archives, and the statute of limitations didn’t reach the limit.
      1. Lesnik
        0
        24 November 2013 21: 02
        Dear Kim, there is no need to descend to the level of Photoshop, this is not sporting.
        But in fact, it does exist.
        It’s not for me to point out to you the “selectivity” of Themis.
  67. porevith
    +1
    24 November 2013 17: 04
    Quote: Severomorsk
    Why do Sweden and Ukraine have the same color flags?
    They say that enterprising Ukrainians picked up Swedish flags near Poltava...

    why is the Russian flag similar to the Dutch one???? It turns out you also picked it up somewhere????
    1. +2
      24 November 2013 17: 42
      Quote: porevith
      why is the Russian flag similar to the Dutch one???? It turns out you also picked it up somewhere????
      Yes, because one old “effective manager” decided and appointed it - the flag will be like this. By the way, this was originally the flag of the MERCHANT Navy. But this does not deny the fact that many peoples later, as a sign of GRATITUDE, accepted the RUSSIAN flag, and not the Dutch one, as the fundamental principle when creating their own. How much did they take yours?
      And this is what the banner was like in 1696
      1. sapran
        0
        24 November 2013 17: 53
        Beautiful banner. maybe ...
    2. +1
      25 November 2013 07: 28
      Quote: porevith
      Quote: Severomorsk
      Why do Sweden and Ukraine have the same color flags?
      They say that enterprising Ukrainians picked up Swedish flags near Poltava...

      why is the Russian flag similar to the Dutch one???? It turns out you also picked it up somewhere????

      Somewhere it flashed that yellow and blue were the ancestral colors of Rurik, who, if you believe the chronicle, was a Varangian, i.e. Swede in a modern way. And the trident also seems to be from him. So yes, they picked it up from the Swedes, but not near Poltava, but much like before.
      1. 0
        25 November 2013 19: 21
        Quote: Nagan
        Somewhere it flashed that yellow and blue were the ancestral colors of Rurik, who, if you believe the chronicle, was a Varangian, i.e. Swedish in a modern way. And the trident also seems to be from him. So yes, they picked it up from the Swedes, but not near Poltava, but much like before.

        The Varangians are Baltic Slavs, not Swedes, Germans and other Scandinavians.
  68. The comment was deleted.
    1. -1
      24 November 2013 17: 47
      How is this interconnected?

      Yes, that’s how it’s connected, they ask you for numbers, and in response - verbal diarrhea
      Did you make it up yourself? Why are you laughing at your stupidity?

      quote kars from 16:08
      in the case of the Ukrainian Navy, a port tug.

      if he is part of the Ukrainian Navy then why not,


      more...
      But what do we have to do with it? The Russian Federation has squandered more
      The Russian Federation may have squandered more, but now it is ACTIVELY RESTORE
      and you ?
      so will you answer, or as usual telepathy language?

      I already answered. But you have not proved why I should answer, and how does this relate to the topic?


      what is the article about?
      not about the Ukrainian Armed Forces?
      my questions are DIRECTLY related to this
      unlike your chatter

      will you answer?
      or as always BLAH BLAH BLAH
      1. 13
        13
        +1
        24 November 2013 18: 25
        The Russian Federation may have squandered more, but now it is ACTIVELY RESTORE
        and you ?

        So, unfortunately, our economic situation is not completely different from that of the Russian Federation. In this aspect, I consider the comparison of the armed forces not entirely appropriate.
  69. Lesnik
    +1
    24 November 2013 18: 42
    Quote: rolik2
    I’ll ask a friend to throw off the certificate on the number of hours of flight of their squadron so it goes ?? It is not necessary to assure a notary ???

    No one pulled their tongue
    Indicate the number of 1st, 2nd, 3rd class pilots from the squadron staff
    indicate the breakdown for them: 1) age, 2) OSO or OSHR
    AND EVERYTHING WILL BE CLEAR IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!
    PY. SY. Best regards, I'm looking forward to it wink
    1. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 18: 51
      Cool, why is it that what you indicated is slightly higher than DSK?!
  70. Turnek
    0
    24 November 2013 19: 16
    as Vereshchagin said in the film White Sun of the Desert. "...I feel bad for the State."
  71. Lesnik
    0
    24 November 2013 20: 53
    Quote: sapran
    Cool, why is it that what you indicated is slightly higher than DSK?!

    I don’t demand a last name indicating the open name of the military unit
  72. 0
    24 November 2013 20: 57
    Quote: Akim
    And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.
    I am begging you...
    1. Akim
      0
      24 November 2013 22: 20
      Quote: Prapor-527
      I am begging you...

      No need. Now this is strict. I remember my years when I was studying and now. The cadets are trained, not spent half a day doing park and maintenance work. And at night you write notes. Because after lunch you have to work, there are rolling blackouts from 5 o’clock, etc. In the army, taking a fighter is no problem. They themselves lined up to mow down. Now it's crap. Everyone has become “smart”. And commissions are like mushrooms after rain. And they are paid bonuses for identified violations.
  73. +2
    24 November 2013 21: 03
    [quote=Misha 13][quote]The Russian Federation may have squandered even more, but here it is ACTIVELY RESTORE
    and you?[/quote]
    So, unfortunately, our economic situation is not completely different from that of the Russian Federation. And why do you need such “independence”, come to us...
  74. Lesnik
    +1
    24 November 2013 21: 27
    Quote: sapran
    The latest trend from the "dad" sold all the Su-24s to Sudan, together with the serfs (pilots, those personnel). We haven’t thought of such a move yet (although we’re standing there under the UN flag in Africa, so to speak, the last 10% probably fly)

    In fact, maintenance is 1.5 more expensive than the product itself, this is just for information
    1. sapran
      0
      24 November 2013 21: 49
      thank God! Economic guy! Let Khartoum pay the military salaries? Or for combat and for the first person to fall from an arrow (God forbid), who will pay? And what about the country's defense? Let Russia think for everything? It’s up to the original Belarusian leadership to see what they have with the army and the so-called threats. I remember the Belarusians in Africa, the guys, unlike ours, don’t bother with repairs; they replace everything in blocks (they’ll bring it from their homeland)
      1. Lesnik
        0
        24 November 2013 22: 15
        Yes, yes, he is economical, so respect and respect to him!!!!!!
        Why are you so concerned about the defense of a foreign country?
        Take care of yourself wink
        1. sapran
          0
          24 November 2013 22: 59
          Yes, it’s too late for me to drink Borjomi... It’s good for you and thank God, but here we’ll try to do it ourselves so that we don’t bother you and we ourselves can benefit from it. Frets?
          1. Lesnik
            0
            24 November 2013 23: 16
            It’s not a question if you divide US RUSSIAN SPEAKING people into OURS and OURS, then Okay!
            1. Ivan Sirko
              -1
              24 November 2013 23: 33
              “Russian-speaking” is like “a person of Caucasian nationality.”
              Somehow it's not kosher.
            2. sapran
              0
              24 November 2013 23: 46
              Wait, your phrase - "...Why are you so concerned about the defense of a foreign country?
              Do you take care of yourself wink.."?! who divided whom and into what? or again something with a misunderstanding or “a gentleman changes the rules”?
              1. Lesnik
                0
                25 November 2013 00: 54
                Unfortunately, I don’t speak Byalaru and neither do you. Moreover, I am not a gay European “gentleman”
  75. 0
    25 November 2013 01: 27
    So many comments! It seems to me that the negativity and a certain gloating on the Russian side only means a common underlying desire to see two peoples together again in order to be a truly great power.
  76. Lesnik
    0
    25 November 2013 01: 27
    Quote: Akim
    Quote: Prapor-527
    I am begging you...

    No need. Now this is strict. I remember my years when I was studying and now. The cadets are trained, not spent half a day doing park and maintenance work. And at night you write notes. Because after lunch you have to work, there are rolling blackouts from 5 o’clock, etc. In the army, taking a fighter is no problem. They themselves lined up to mow down. Now it's crap. Everyone has become “smart”. And commissions are like mushrooms after rain. And they are paid bonuses for identified violations.

    Oh vey Fima, I beg you..... teach.... lifting with a flip on the fingers! Have you ever worked with a lieutenant of the “new formation”? Zero knowledge, physical training is below par!!!!! And the megalomania and demands are like those of a general!
  77. Lesnik
    0
    25 November 2013 01: 59
    Quote: sasska
    if you look at the Baltic states so generally from industrial countries have become agrarian

    The Baltic states became a European consumption market, for the price of joining Geyropa was precisely the extermination of the remaining both industry and agriculture.
    Yes, and in Soviet times, never The Estonian, Latvian, and Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republics did not position themselves as industrial.
    hi


    I agree as pate-sprat laughing gay European countries. And it’s not for me to argue with you. The Baltics are the Baltics, as you say, so it will be
  78. legionary
    0
    25 November 2013 02: 53
    Why did the author of the article decide that: On the one hand, unlike “real” Europeans, no one feels sorry for them, on the other hand, they higher level of trainingthan most armies of developing countries (at least African)., when he himself states in the article that:
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces themselves ordered only ten BTR-4s, but there was no money for them either. Myanmar and Chad have money for such cars, but Ukraine does not. that is, if African countries have money to purchase military equipment, then there will be money for training at the proper level for military personnel working on this equipment and more.
  79. 0
    25 November 2013 08: 31
    A big plus for Aftor, firstly for explaining the counter-army, and about the issue of the Crimean Tatars, that no one needs them, neither Ankara, nor Kyiv, etc. Let them live by laws, not customs.
  80. sasska
    +1
    25 November 2013 12: 11
    Quote: Forestman
    Well, where are the “Estonian SSR, Tallinn” before you? Apparently the liberals died out of starvation there or moved to Kyiv? ...

    What's wrong with my names? the place of my birth, at that very moment, was called that.

    Thanks for the links - I immediately realized that you were on topic. It’s nice that Estonia exports at least something. laughing

    Quote: Forestman
    Let's laugh together
    http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/393598/


    what yes, really... disability is an internal concept, not an external one.

    I’ll support the topic, let’s laugh together:
    "For the first time, a march was held in eastern Ukraine in honor of the SS division "Galicia"
    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/04/29/galichina/
    In Krivoy Rog (a city in the Dnepropetrovsk region of Ukraine) a “march of knightly glory” took place, dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the founding of the SS division “Galicia”. The SS Division "Galicia" was formed by the Nazis from residents of Western Ukraine. She participated in suppressing uprisings and fighting partisans in several European countries. In 1944, near the city of Brody, it first entered into battle with regular units of the Soviet army and was almost completely destroyed.

    The anniversary of the creation of the division (April 28) is widely celebrated in western Ukraine. In Lviv, about two thousand people took part in the march dedicated to this day."
  81. tverskoi77
    +1
    25 November 2013 13: 50
    Well, how long can you make waves in Ukraine? It is not much different from Russia. We are collectively considered third world countries. The army was destroyed both in Ukraine and Russia, and those who were destroyed were all in the ranks.
  82. tverskoi77
    0
    25 November 2013 13: 51
    Well, how long can you make waves in Ukraine? It is not much different from Russia. We are collectively considered third world countries. The army was destroyed both in Ukraine and Russia, and those who were destroyed were all in the ranks.
  83. +1
    25 November 2013 13: 53
    it's time to create a unified army of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus! soldier
    1. 0
      25 November 2013 19: 25
      Quote: Wolf1945
      it's time to create a unified army of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus!

      At whose expense is the banquet?
  84. 0
    25 November 2013 13: 53
    it's time to create a unified army of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus! soldier
  85. 0
    25 November 2013 14: 48
    What is happening with the Armed Forces of Fraternal Belarus? If anyone knows, please sign up.
  86. USNik
    +1
    25 November 2013 17: 09
    scandal about "Oplotov".
    I, as a citizen of Ukraine, am sad to see all this, but the path to nowhere was visible back in 91 when the Tu-160 Swans were destroyed sad , a good and updated blog about the Malyshev plant and “super tanks”
    http://ahtungtank.blogspot.ru/2013_11_01_archive.html
    If you are interested, start reading from the first part.
  87. rocketman
    0
    26 November 2013 02: 34
    Quote: Akim
    And naturally there is a lot of negativity, but there is also positivity.

    And where is this positivity? Tell!!!!
    Quote: Basarev
    but we don’t wear them out - we rivet Almatys and PAK FAs, and in the future, PAK DAs and the latest load-bearing cruisers.

    Do not make me laugh!
    What kind of cruisers are these? And who has seen armature? The PAK FA is still very far from a combat aircraft, and 100% will be exported. And did you try not to rivet, but to assemble like a human being?

    The main problem of the Ukrainian army is rotten leadership. Now there is a reform underway that destroys the centralized control of the Ukrainian air defense system. Believe me, both Russia and Belarus will suffer from this. That’s what’s bad... And what has been stolen and destroyed over the past 20 years, this also happened in Russia... Of the entire fleet, there are only three combat-ready flagships for each fleet, that’s all. Remember what happened, and how many large surface ships are in service... As they say, pull the logs out of your eyes, and then point the sticks out to others...
  88. shitovmg
    0
    27 November 2013 15: 47
    Served in (in) Ukraine. 1980 - mid-service, Olympics in Moscow! All summer and autumn on exercises, August in Crimea. Our large landing craft returned from the Red Sea... Landing hovercraft, unloading tanks and armored personnel carriers from them... I saw the equipment in action, amphibious landings, aviation work, air defense against low-flying targets. I remember it for the rest of my life and tell everyone what I saw!!!
  89. -1
    27 November 2013 17: 40
    I didn't like the article! Each country decides for itself what kind of army it should have and in what quantity. As for the remnants of former Soviet power, these are all fairy tales in Iraq and Syria; old Soviet tanks and equipment have shown that they need deep modernization. But it is not profitable for Ukraine to do this at this stage, and therefore they are not yet actively arming themselves like Russia, but are getting rid of the bolast.
  90. 0
    28 November 2013 05: 27
    “...In fact, 100% of the money allocated for it (very considerable for the Ukrainian Armed Forces) was simply stolen...” How familiar this is. Even if you call yourself a pot, you won’t be able to correct your nature.
  91. 0
    28 November 2013 21: 08
    Can you imagine - the construction battalion has been gone for a long time. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a real problem.[/quote]
    AYYYYYYYY recourse -You agree with me?
  92. Azaat
    0
    28 November 2013 21: 45
    Some kind of ambiguous reaction to the article seems to be satisfied that it is worse than ours and at the same time it is a shame to somehow be from the USSR. They steal, they steal everywhere.
  93. 0
    29 November 2013 11: 40
    I liked the article! good Thank you!
  94. 0
    29 November 2013 15: 51
    When will self-awareness come about the unity and indivisibility of the Eastern Slavs! You all should have a history book in one place and deeper!
    The USSR collapsed.
    Which of the current countries won?
    Russia?--Swallowed by corruption, devastation in any social sphere (orphanages, shortage of kindergartens, educational reforms like "egurt", lack of moral values ​​in principle (I've seen enough in 5 years in Moscow), the same reduction of the armed forces, lack of political choice, poverty 85% of the population (sorry, a global oil exporter like the UAE, for example, must live with at least the same level of income as there))
    Ukraine? - Lack of consensus in the political choice (only Maidan - only hardcore), a plundered army, a “stoned” parliament (Verkhovna Rada), lack of decent work, lard no longer grows, damnation of Slavic roots, self-awareness as a mega-European country interfering with the dialogue with children ( Russia and Belarus), the social sphere is at zero, the industry is ruined.
    Belarus? - Autonomous Old Man, lack of political freedom and freedom of choice, order achieved by the gendarmerie (for every third uncle in the shoulder straps), a growing debt hole, the destruction of agriculture began, industry failed to cope with the crisis of 2008, 30% reformed or restructured-sold, increase depending on Russia, 75% of exports are called “integration”, the social sphere is at its best, the Army is in dignity and order, creating the image of “everyone is good”, although everyone already owes it like the land to the collective farm.
    Conclusion: we will come to the conclusion that either 3 brothers together will grab the tug and drag the common strap, or our children will have a Western tug around their necks, and even the true anthropomorphic image of the Slav will look like this: a unibrowed, brown-eyed, dark-skinned Slav...
    I am 22 years old, a cultural historian. Minsk-Moscow.
  95. 0
    29 November 2013 18: 05
    Unfortunately, the state of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is even sadder. In the sense that the list of weapons is often only externally “alive”. During Yushchenko's presidency, I remember a big scandal in Crimea, when it turned out that literally several planes could just take off during the exercises. Those. If Yanukovych now arranged something like Putin’s “sudden check of combat readiness”, the whole world would laugh.
  96. 0
    29 November 2013 18: 05
    Unfortunately, the state of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is even sadder. In the sense that the list of weapons is often only externally “alive”. During Yushchenko's presidency, I remember a big scandal in Crimea, when it turned out that literally several planes could just take off during the exercises. Those. If Yanukovych now arranged something like Putin’s “sudden check of combat readiness”, the whole world would laugh.