Military Review

What remains of the former military power of Ukraine

301
What remains of the former military power of Ukraine



After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine received a magnificent army - three very strong military districts of the second strategic echelon and three air armies (not counting the powerful arsenal of strategic nuclear forces), the total number is about 800 thousand people. The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. In count tanks (more than 6100) and combat aircraft (more than 1100) Ukraine occupied the 4th place in the world after the USA, Russia and China.

How Ukraine lost the Soviet legacy

Now almost everyone has forgotten how many horror stories about the possible war between Russia and Ukraine were in the Russian media of the beginning of 1990's. But in the event of such a war, the army of Ukraine would have a significant superiority over the Russian Armed Forces in the European part of the country: Russia got mostly weak third-tier districts with cropped divisions and outdated equipment, as well as groups of troops "hovering" in Eastern Europe, randomly displayed in clean field.

Even after Washington and Moscow forced Kiev to abandon nuclear weapons, it almost did not change anything: the starting conditions for military construction in Ukraine were simply luxurious, definitely the best among all countries of the former USSR. Especially in view of the most powerful personnel potential and highly developed military industrial complex. Ukraine received at least 700 military enterprises, having the ability to produce almost any equipment. In particular, it turned out to be a monopolist in the post-Soviet space for the production of heavy liquid intercontinental and space rockets, aircraft carriers, heavy military transport aircraft, helicopter engines.

Two post-Soviet decades, Ukraine used, to put it mildly, not in the best way. According to such a major economic indicator, as GDP per capita, Ukraine among the 15 countries of the former USSR moved from second place in 1992 to ninth place in 2011. In terms of growth of this indicator, it was among them in the last, 15, place. The population of the country during this time decreased by 7 million people. Military construction quite fit into the general trend.

We will not take the hopeless Moldavia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and the Baltic countries, which to this day have purely symbolic Armed Forces. They had no starting conditions or resources for anything else. The Baltic countries are also under the formal protection of NATO (it is formal, but it creates the illusion of security). All the other post-Soviet armies gradually entered the path of progressive development (of course, each country has its own), some of them were able to create high-quality armies. Only the Armed Forces of Ukraine remained in a state of chaotic degradation, from which all countries of the former USSR began. As a result, as well as in the economy, having the best starting conditions in the former country, Ukraine today received the worst result.

Sale of "surplus"

The Armed Forces of Ukraine have gone through some structural changes. The Carpathian, Odessa and Kiev military districts became the Western and Southern operational command and territorial control "North". Divisions have become brigades, of which there are now 17 (two tank, eight mechanized, one airborne, two airmobile, one rocket and three artillery). There are also over 20 regiments, including three special forces regiments.

According to official data of the CFE Treaty on January 1 2013, Ukraine had 2311 tanks, 3782 armored vehicles, 3101 artillery systems, 507 combat aircraft, 121 attack helicopter. That is, the abbreviations for 20 years turned out to be very large, 2 — 3 are multiples. At the same time, these figures are purely formal - at best, half of the equipment registered in the Ukrainian Armed Forces is combat-ready.

The numerous disappeared machinery is either rotten or sold out. During the post-Soviet period (1992 — 2012), Ukraine became one of the world's leading exporters of weapons. During this time, 285 tanks and 430 BTRs were produced by Ukrainian enterprises for export deliveries (there are orders for another 50 tanks and a couple of hundred BTRs). But from the presence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces for the same years, the 1162 tank, 1221 BBM (BRDM, BMP, BTR), 529 artillery systems, 134 combat aircraft, 112 combat helicopters, a significant amount of air defense weapons were sold abroad.

That is, export success is more than 90% not the achievement of the domestic MIC, but the sale of property. The rapid sale of the Soviet legacy continues today; its main consumers are the countries of tropical Africa (such as Mali, Ethiopia, DRC). It is believed that Ukraine sells surplus and outdated equipment. But these "surplus" is somehow very much, and they are by no means the oldest compared to what remains in Ukraine. The most important thing is that the cancellation and sale of the Soviet inheritance is not compensated by new supplies.

Ukrainian tanks and armored personnel carriers are relatively successful in export, but their own aircraft is "neither hot nor cold." The project of modernization of the 2000 Soviet T-400 tanks into the T-64BM Bulat version, which appeared at the beginning of 64, was immediately reduced to 85 units; Today 76 machines are really modernized. But this is not new, but modernized Soviet tanks. The new T-84U Oplot tanks were able to purchase ten of them, ten more sophisticated BM Oplot were ordered, but there was no money for their actual acquisition from the Ministry of Defense. At the same time fifty "strongholds" will be delivered to Thailand, which has money. Not bad sold abroad BTR-3 and BTR-4, the bill goes to the hundreds. The Ukrainian Armed Forces themselves ordered only ten BTR-4, but there was no money for them either. Myanmar and Chad have money for such cars, Ukraine does not.

Parasitism on the remains of Soviet technology

True, with the export of armored vehicles Ukraine has recently had very serious problems. The Kharkov factory named after Malyshev is simply not capable of organizing the mass production of armored vehicles (whether for their aircraft or for export). Now there is a loud scandalous breach of contract with Iraq for the delivery of BTR-4 to this country due to the poor quality of the vehicles. From BTR-3 silently refused to Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, the United Arab Emirates. The main buyers of the new Ukrainian armored vehicles are Nigeria and Thailand, but with the latter, an even greater scandal about the “Plots” is possible.

A vivid personification of the situation in the Ukrainian military-industrial complex has become история the creation of operational-tactical missile complex "Sapsan". In 2007 — 2013, more than 200 million hryvnas (about 1 billion rubles) were spent on it. However, during this time, not only a prototype was not created, but documentation was not even developed. As a result, the project had to close. In fact, 100% allocated to it (very considerable for the Armed Forces of Ukraine) money was simply stolen.

As for artillery systems, air defense systems, combat aircraft and helicopters, today they are not produced in Ukraine itself or acquired abroad. The Su-25 attack aircraft and MiG-29 fighters are being upgraded, but the modernization rate is very low, and, most importantly, as in the case of Bulat, this is not the production of new technology, but some extension of the old life.

Ukraine seems to be able to build ships, however, the construction program for corvettes of 58250 Ave. on “people's money” degenerated into a farce right after its beginning (although the Ukrainian Navy’s leadership planned to control the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean with these corvettes): the first of them in 20 at best, the country will get four corvettes at best, of which the first in 2012. That is, for 2016 years of independence, the country's armed forces received 20 new tanks - and nothing more.

However, even this is not the worst. More strikingly, all these two decades in the armed forces of the country almost completely lacked combat training. When, occasionally, they tried to carry it out, combat missiles hit either in residential buildings or in passenger aircraft (with large civilian casualties); as a result, the Ministry of Defense reduced it to zero. The average flight time per pilot in the Ukrainian Air Force in the 2012 year reached 40 hours, which is considered an outstanding achievement (for comparison, in the Russian Air Force this figure was reduced to 120 hours). The exercises of the ground forces are conducted at best in a company link - a battalion, and even then not often. To achieve a fundamental improvement in the situation is impossible because of the extremely difficult economic situation in the country.

Salvation - in the absence of enemies

On the other hand, it is impossible not to admit that Ukraine, by and large, does not need the army because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.

True, western neighbors (Hungary and Romania) today are aggressive towards Ukraine: they distribute their passports to its citizens living in territories that previously belonged to these countries. But it is not necessary to do it by force: Ukrainian citizens take new passports voluntarily and with pleasure. With such a fight by military means is useless.

Of course, you can theoretically imagine how the neighbors will go to war against Ukraine in order to protect their new citizens, but theoretically. The ability of the Romanians to war has long passed on the category of satire and humor. In addition, the Romanian Armed Forces are also unique in the extreme archaic nature of technology. Until now, all their 853 tanks are T-55, all 98 combat aircraft are MiG-21. A small number of T-72 and MiG-29, obtained from the USSR at the end of 80-x, the Romanians quickly and successfully ditched to complete non-recoverability.

The situation in the Hungarian Armed Forces is not much better: on their armament today there are only 150 T-72 tanks (of which 120 are in storage) and only 14 Swedish Grippen fighters. The number of personnel reduced to 22 thousand people. Accordingly, it is difficult to wait for aggression from Romania and Hungary, the development trajectory of their armed forces is about the same as that of the Ukrainian armed forces - confidently down.

No less difficult to imagine Turkish aggression against Ukraine. Of course, the Turkish Armed Forces are much stronger than the Ukrainian today, but still the Black Sea is a very serious water barrier. In addition, for such aggression there are no clear goals, the problem of the Crimean Tatars for Ankara is not something that is not on the first, but not even on the 20-th place in the list of its foreign policy priorities.

As for Russia, Ukraine is not capable of resisting it in all respects. Today, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have received a very significant superiority over the quantity and quality of equipment and the level of combat training over the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But the main thing is not even in this, but in the fact that for a significant part of the population of Ukraine “Russia” is the “own” country. An extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the event of war against Russia will not just immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the tricolor flag against “yellow blot”.

Thus, the Ukrainian Armed Forces, while continuing to absorb significant money from the disastrous Ukrainian budget, do not provide the country with any defenses. However, she does not need any defenses.

UN peacekeeping operations as a way out

Therefore, in the coming years, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will undergo another reform, consisting in their further significant reduction and sale of a significant part of the remaining equipment and other property. Due to this, the army will be hired, that is professional.

In Russia, many people are still convinced that having a professional army in a country means a higher degree of its development compared to a country with a conscript army. Based on this postulate, it should be recognized that Burkina Faso, Zimbabwe, Papua New Guinea, Gambia are more developed than Norway, Finland, South Korea, Switzerland.

In fact, the method of staffing the Armed Forces is determined by the tasks that they face, and nothing more. In particular, if a country is threatened with a large-scale external aggression, it needs a conscription army: the hired task of repulsing such aggression cannot be solved - this has been repeatedly confirmed by international experience. But the hired army is very well suited for solving problems inside the country in the interests of the regime that hired it. If the draft army, that is, the people's army, in the overwhelming majority of cases will not shoot at its people, then the mercenary army will easily.

As was shown above, in any case, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to fight with Russia; expecting aggression from other directions is stupid. Accordingly, there is no point in having a full-fledged draft army, for which there is still no money. On the other hand, the specificity of the current Ukrainian regime is such that in the very foreseeable future it may seriously require the defense protection inside the country, from its own population. Accordingly, the regime needs “liberal love” - “compact professional army”. Its main task will be just the removal of the remnants of Ukrainian liberalism.

Thanks to a further radical reduction in the number of personnel and equipment, there will be enough money for its maintenance. Moreover, it is possible to bring it to partial self-sufficiency, using in very fashionable now UN peacekeeping operations and NATO in Africa and Asia. The current peacekeeping contingents almost always turn out to be completely incapacitated, because Western peacekeepers do not want to fight, and African and Asian cannot. Ukrainians here will be the ideal option. On the one hand, they, unlike the "real" Europeans, do not feel sorry for anyone, on the other hand, they have a higher level of training than most armies of developing countries (at least African).

For such operations, the UN and NATO pay well. Of course, the Ukrainian leadership will take most of this money for itself, but something will also fall to the military itself. With the current level of income, Ukrainians even “something” will be enough to feel very good. Moreover, the "professionals" will obviously become almost exclusively representatives of the social classes. At the same time, they will gain experience in dealing with civilians and rebel groups, which can then come in handy in their own country. A good addition to the Ukrainian army in this case could be the Chinese army (represented by the Xinjiang industrial building corps), which officially received 50 thousand square meters for 30 years. km of the territory of Ukraine.

Of course, Russia cannot afford a “compact professional army” due to geopolitical or internal political circumstances; on the contrary, we must also increase the current one. Ukraine can serve as an example for it - only not positive, but negative. And this example is truly outstanding. It is very difficult to find in the history examples of such a rapid reduction of powerful, high-quality and balanced aircraft to such a sad state.
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 23 November 2013 08: 19
    28
    Ukraine, by and large, is not needed because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.
    Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything. With an approving pat on the shoulder.
    The US administration is sure that the Ukrainians have never lost hope of gaining independence.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 23 November 2013 08: 51
      14
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column already eats everything

      Nevertheless, I think that the next reduction will not be the last. As a result, only explosives and police will remain in Ukraine. Well, why, why do we need an army when there are no enemies around. One friends **** them.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 23 November 2013 08: 55
        16
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Nevertheless, I think that the next reduction will not be the last

        You mean the black bar was white? lol
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 23 November 2013 09: 10
          19
          Quote: Ingvar 72

          You mean the black bar was white?

          The black line is still ahead, Ukraine will be pressed from all sides. The EU is already ready to support street protests, a new naughty or "doomsday" is brewing for Ukraine. If the Orange ones come to power again, they will immediately cut everything and everyone request
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 12: 14
            -34 qualifying.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            The EU is ready to support street protests, a new rush is brewing

            Do not quote Putin - you have your own brains. And what does the army have to do with it?
            1. Sadikoff
              Sadikoff 23 November 2013 13: 04
              +8
              Usually they pay for the protest work, it will be possible for Ukrainians to earn money at the expense of both parties. There is a good side to this, in terms of earnings, not protest.
            2. Fedya
              Fedya 23 November 2013 21: 54
              +7
              What does Putin have to do with it? What we do not know who paid the orange!
              1. Akim
                Akim 23 November 2013 22: 21
                +1
                Quote: Fedya
                What we do not know who paid the orange!

                What does the orange have to do with it? He talks about yesterday's statement.
            3. smprofi
              smprofi 24 November 2013 00: 12
              +5
              Quote: Akim
              Do not quote Putin

              and yes!
              why cling to a person?
            4. shark
              shark 25 November 2013 11: 25
              +5
              And why not quote a great man. Your Maidan gopnik Eurointegrants can be put on the scales in hundreds, and Putin will outweigh anyway.
            5. PureGUN
              PureGUN 25 November 2013 12: 46
              0
              What does it have to do with that ?! Euro skating rink in all sectors will pass and the army will not forget.
        2. atalef
          atalef 23 November 2013 10: 58
          19
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          You mean the black bar was white?

          No, he means
          How do optimists differ from pessimists
          Pessimist says
          - It can't be worse
          Optimist, he is answered
          -Maybe, maybe.
      2. Horst78
        Horst78 23 November 2013 10: 40
        +8
        . As a result, only the BB and the police will remain in Ukraine.
        But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages? laughing
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 12: 16
          +8
          Quote: Horst78
          But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages

          And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.
          1. Horst78
            Horst78 23 November 2013 13: 02
            +6
            I am happy for your army. ETOGES what progress in increasing the combat readiness.
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 November 2013 13: 09
              +6
              Quote: Horst78
              ETOGES what progress in increasing the combat readiness.

              Progress in the elimination of construction battles and disbats does not smell. But a soldier must fulfill his main function.
              1. Horst78
                Horst78 23 November 2013 13: 37
                +5
                What do your soldiers do? The officers then 08.08.08 just excelled.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 23 November 2013 13: 44
                  -6
                  Quote: Horst78
                  The officers then 08.08.08 just excelled

                  I do not comment on the tale. As for the soldiers, they will carry out what is due under the contract and the combat charter.
                  1. Horst78
                    Horst78 23 November 2013 13: 52
                    +4
                    Oh how angry laughing for "-" thanks, it's like an order
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 23 November 2013 14: 01
                      14
                      Quote: Horst78
                      for "-" thanks, it's like an order

                      Once again I tell everyone. I DO NOT PUT cons. A person must have an opinion and there is nothing for him to express his indignation in this way. If I do not agree, I enter into a dispute.
                      1. Horst78
                        Horst78 23 November 2013 17: 34
                        +5
                        Sorry, I was wrong about you repeat
                  2. Chaplain
                    Chaplain 23 November 2013 15: 59
                    +8
                    Not only on 08.08.08 they distinguished themselves, a number of Ukrainian leaders are still there. Yes, and in our Caucasus there are relatively many characteristic personalities.
                    1. Old_kapitan
                      Old_kapitan 23 November 2013 16: 56
                      21
                      And in our Caucasus there are relatively many characteristic personalities.
                      Unfortunately, there are Russian mercenaries there. And is this news for you?
                      Shl. Now let's see how many downsides I cover. But this is true. I remember we already discussed peace enforcement. So, in spite of my full and unconditional support for Russia in this matter, the recognition that there may well be Ukrainian military and civilian specialists, and the "Korchinsky chicks" certainly only asked for more compelling evidence than Mamontov's film and Konovalchuk's statement , even for this "innocent prank" my mother did not grieve me - a rally in the ranking from major to corporal.
                      1. Sergey_K
                        Sergey_K 23 November 2013 17: 11
                        +7
                        Feel free to have your opinion. And here is my humble one:

                        Ukraine has no one to fight with and Ukraine does not need the army that was under the USSR. Ideally, a large number of resermists and compact, powerful aircraft that are used to working on their territory and who have everything for this. But for such an army, Soviet technology is not suitable, as it was imprisoned for other needs. Therefore, you need to buy and change your defense industry. And, of course, return military service.
                      2. Current 72
                        Current 72 23 November 2013 18: 01
                        21
                        Please answer me, did the republics under the USSR have their own armies ??? There was one army that defended and fulfilled its function as an army, for everything and for everyone. And now, who are independent of the USSR, they must have an army, otherwise they should not be independent. We are able to destroy everything, but building is the question .
                2. Farik
                  Farik 24 November 2013 03: 11
                  +3
                  Quote: Akim
                  The divisions turned into brigades, of which there are 17 now (two tank, eight mechanized, one airborne, two airmobile, one missile and three artillery). There are also over 20 regiments, including three special forces regiments.

                  For a country like Ukraine, in principle, not bad !!! Plus three more regiments of Special Forces. I wonder what condition the Ukrainian special forces are currently at.
                  1. Military79
                    Military79 25 November 2013 02: 52
                    +4
                    I'll tell you what I know from my own experience of service.8 The OPSPP is in Khmelnytsky, previously was in Izyaslovo. The level of combat is at a height. The preference in the training of both contract soldiers and conscripts is given to classes in the "field". Approximately the alignment for a week is as follows:
                    Monday-tactics and theory (deep reconnaissance, disguise, topography, communications, mine-explosive preparations, regulations for parachutes, etc.);
                    Tuesday-Thursday-field trips for 2-3 days, practicing physically and practicing previously acquired knowledge. Overnight in tents, winter roads. March marching across the intersection. All this with weapons.
                    Friday-fire, physo, drill, analysis of the field exit.
                    Saturday-cleaning weapons, theory, physo, PCBs.
                    And so almost every week for all contractors or conscripts. The schedule was broken when jumping or training. It was at the time I ended the contract in 2006. The salary with all the allowances (rank, length of service, position, jumping, for combat readiness) is about 1000 UAH (150 dollars). It’s impossible to rent an apartment for a salary yourself, live in a hostel for free on the territory of the unit. That's why I left. It was time to start a family or serve further. Now the salary has been raised to 3500 hryvnias (320 dollars) but the problems with housing remained the same. Many guys peacekeeping missions passed I. There you could earn money. At the moment, almost all contract soldiers are in the regiment.
              2. bistrov.
                bistrov. 23 November 2013 20: 34
                10
                Quote: Horst78
                What do your soldiers do?

                In the Ukrainian army comes to a joke. It turns out that the soldier can’t do anything. Do not do any loading and unloading, do any construction work, etc. It got to the point that officers did repairs in the soldiers’ barracks, because a soldier shouldn’t!
                1. Sergey_K
                  Sergey_K 24 November 2013 04: 35
                  0
                  Brazenly lying. My childhood friend served 3 years ago. I did everything.
              3. smprofi
                smprofi 24 November 2013 00: 25
                -27 qualifying.
                Quote: Horst78
                Officers then on 08.08.08

                and then!
                and you never tried to simply calculate: at what distance were the armored forces of the Russian Federation from Tskhinval and after what time did they appear there?
                for reference, for especially smart ones, the speed of the column (maximum, on the plain - 55 km / h). the distance from the place of deployment is about 300 km. we add time for loading ammunition (there is no vehicle with ammo in the park!), refueling. + the time of passage of "information" from "they started shooting" to "making a decision" "we will show them" - well, it does NOT work that a division moved out of the deployment site and ended up in Tskhinvali 12 hours after the start of its bombing.
                still. where are the voiced 2 dead civilians on the first day?
                where are those houses of civilians that suffered from the Georgian "Grad"?
                can you provide a photo?
                no!
                because it just wasn’t
                1. zvereok
                  zvereok 26 November 2013 18: 46
                  +1
                  Eva how! So the former American ambassador, said that Saakashvili was crazy, and in vain he unleashed a war - the United States in every way prevented and discouraged him from this rash act.

                  By the way, be consistent, complete the next pyramids, and then put forward the next concept of an alternative story.
        2. Fin
          Fin 23 November 2013 13: 13
          +2
          Quote: Akim
          And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.

          Two sensible senior officers will solve the problem.
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 13: 25
            +5
            Quote: Fin
            Two sensible senior officers will solve the problem

            When conscripts were hard. Now all conscripts will not.
        3. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 23 November 2013 21: 15
          20
          Dear Akim. Judging by your comments, you think that in Ukraine all the remarkably economic and military development vectors have a positive sign, in general, Ukraine as a whole is moving in the right direction and there are only slight deviations. It sounds to you from Russia - everything is bad, the government is a bastard of GDP and oligarchs, but the numbers are a stubborn thing, and they say (unfortunately for you, for us, though small joy) the opposite. The simplest case in point is to show a mass example of guest workers of Russians in Ukraine, but in Russia of Ukrainian guest workers (especially in the sex industry wassat ) in bulk, although of course much less than Central Asian ones. Of course, I respect your patriotism, but as my wife's sister used to say, "patriotism should not grow into idiocy," and you stubbornly deny the obvious. Do not consider me a Ukrainophobe, this is not so - I myself have relatives in Khmelnytsky and Kharkov. Almost every Russian is in the same situation, but what is happening today in Ukraine cannot be called anything other than mass madness.
          PS Sorry if I offended anyone, this goal was not set. He repeatedly stated that I myself am a supporter of the tightest integration with Ukraine, but in the current state and with today's mood, she is clearly not ready for this and does not strive.
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 21: 40
            +6
            Quote: velikoros-xnumx
            Do you think that in Ukraine all the remarkably economic and military development vectors have a positive sign, in general, Ukraine as a whole is moving in the right direction and there are only slight deviations. It sounds to you from Russia - everything is bad, the government is a bastard of GDP and oligarchs, but the figures are a stubborn thing

            Can’t you catch me on the chaff? When did I insult Putin? (excluding the phrase big grabber)..
            I’m sitting here in pink glasses and writing with boiling water for joy. Just trying to see what you stubbornly do not want to notice. Even on this topic.
            As for Gaster - an incorrect example. Compare, at least, the fare in the minibus of St. Petersburg and Odessa (the second most expensive city) and you will understand why it is profitable to work at your place, and not at home. By the way, Russia is not very keen on earning money from Odessa. On flights, yes. But neither on Russian nor on Ukrainian steamboats.
            Yes, and I do not drive much into your power. Its enough. But still this is OUR poop.
          2. smprofi
            smprofi 24 November 2013 00: 34
            -30 qualifying.
            Quote: velikoros-xnumx
            It sounds to you from Russia

            expensive velikoros, in the area of ​​Pervomaisk there was a Strategic Missile Forces division with strategic missiles. with nuclear warheads.
            during the life of the EBN it was proposed to dismantle it all, give it to Russia, and Russia, the elder sister, will take care of everything.
            and will remain a kind and affectionate older sister.
            Well, they gave it.
            what?
            if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate
            1. Hudo
              Hudo 24 November 2013 00: 48
              +8
              Quote: smprofi
              if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate


              "y" cannot give a fret to the available heptyl, and you mean missiles. You can’t even imagine what utter nonsense you are talking about. This is very sad.
              1. smprofi
                smprofi 24 November 2013 01: 25
                -11 qualifying.
                Quote: Hudo
                You can’t even imagine what utter nonsense you are carrying. This is very sad.

                Oh! tell the TRUTH!
                and here we all listen!
                by the way ... there are far more real patriots than the rest.
                yes and goodies
                1. Hudo
                  Hudo 24 November 2013 01: 36
                  +6
                  Quote: smprofi
                  Oh! tell the TRUTH!
                  and here we all listen!

                  What can I tell you? Find on the net what Kuchma said about why "U" cannot contain nuclear weapons. And do not read the fairy tales of the Hutsul scientists at night.
                  1. smprofi
                    smprofi 24 November 2013 01: 49
                    -8
                    Quote: Hudo
                    Find what you said online

                    in! find in the "network" what EBN said about this
                    Quote: Hudo
                    cannot contain

                    bedtime stories need only fragile children's souls. are you listening Your business!

                    I will not minus for it is stupid.
                    when there are no arguments, then they’ll pass.
                    I will put you +. for trying to figure out something.
                    1. Hudo
                      Hudo 24 November 2013 01: 54
                      +6
                      Quote: smprofi
                      in! find in the "network" what EBN said about this


                      For all sorts of things, Kuchma, besides being a rogue, is also a rocket engineer, and EBN is a common misunderstanding in life.

                      Quote: smprofi
                      I will put you +. for trying to figure out something.


                      Completeness! Not "+" and "-" happiness.
                    2. smprofi
                      smprofi 24 November 2013 02: 09
                      -3
                      Quote: Hudo
                      For all sorts of

                      I have already said before that Russia (well, not all, the Kremlin, of course, of course) undertook to be good neighbors.
                      what was said about the "impossibility" to maintain ... "Kuchma rocket engineer" - OUCH!
                      expensive! if you can’t sleep at the moment, this is no reason to believe in the bullshit that was almost 20 years ago
                      Quote: Hudo
                      Completeness! Not "+" and "-" happiness.

                      yes right
                      but some civilians don’t think so
                    3. CHILD
                      CHILD 26 November 2013 12: 21
                      0
                      Kuchma was the director of the design bureau in Dnepropetrovka, and had scientific degrees, he even presented parts of the recorder .... in the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs he was guarding)))) in 1991 ....))))) he remembered all his life how he Sunday I went to the factory .... and the water management was closed (the weekend), it started to break, and the soldier at his post expressed his point of view (sent him on a fascinating walk with a sexual bias) how much then there was a scream)))) and Dnepropetrovsk is amazing city, I really liked ....
                2. ytqnhfk
                  ytqnhfk 29 November 2013 13: 23
                  0
                  Cons, for example, I put to you and the akim, but I just don’t see any reason to prove it to some, they usually don’t contact me because it’s not convenient!
              2. Lesnik
                Lesnik 25 November 2013 09: 43
                -1
                I ,,,, cried ....... Hutsul scientists ...... really cried from laughter crying
        4. Gronsky
          Gronsky 24 November 2013 23: 25
          +1
          Quote: smprofi
          if only a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads remained on duty in Pervomaisk, Russia (more precisely, the Kremlin) would be more affectionate


          If this pair of rockets remained, then with the current level of professionalism of the Ukrainian military, the country would receive a second Chernobyl in tenfold size. It’s not for you to get into a house or even a plane full of Jews.
          President Kravchuk must be kissed in all places for the fact that he got rid of nuclear weapons in time. We must pay tribute to him, cunning and perspicacious.
        5. URAL72
          URAL72 26 November 2013 17: 37
          +1
          Strategic nuclear forces in Ukraine are just nuclear mines in their own territory. You are a respected full amateur (to put it mildly), since you don’t understand what they would have to create an early warning system, operational and strategic management systems, guidance systems, air defense systems with missile defense elements and much more. You agree to pay it all personally (just a few tens of billions of dollars), because in the budget of the Center of the Universe, it’s not even a poppy seed, but an ordinary black hole ...
    2. RoTTor
      RoTTor 23 November 2013 22: 20
      +5
      Colonels and generals from a huge MO apparatus, which has grown like a cancerous tumor, are enough for garbage collection. In addition to the building of the former headquarters of the CCW, thick-handed [b] [/ b from the MO are sitting on the territory of three destroyed military schools.
    3. SSR
      SSR 23 November 2013 23: 24
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      Quote: Horst78
      But what about the construction battalion at the summer cottages

      And imagine - the building battalion has long been gone. Taking a soldier even to carry a cabinet is a problem.

      I have a friend, Zhenya, a pvoshnik and Oleg’s friend from chemical protection, by the way, he recently returned from the American academy, so both officers are of rank higher than a major, in general, they cover both the army and politicians with horseradish
      1. Akim
        Akim 24 November 2013 05: 56
        +1
        Quote: SSR
        , in general, horseradish plant and cover the army and politicians

        It’s quite acceptable. My friends and classmates are also unflattering. But this is on an individual level. And in general - problems above the roof. And of course, there is a lot of negativity, but there is also a positive
    4. vladimir VR
      vladimir VR 26 November 2013 06: 44
      0
      In Russia, it is now similar.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 23 November 2013 19: 32
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    As a result, only explosives and police will remain in Ukraine. Well, why, why do we need an army at all, when there are no enemies around

    They will gather everything in one district for the protection of the national treasure and call it Koncha-Zaspa
  • Cherdak
    Cherdak 28 November 2013 13: 55
    +1
    Quote: Al
    Therefore, in the coming years, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will undergo another reform, consisting in their further significant reduction and sale of a significant part of the remaining equipment and other property. Thereby the army will be made hired, that is, professional.


    Once again, I am convinced that Alexander Khramchikhin ko3el is complete. He started behind the peacekeeping forces, and ended up praising NATO and even famously tied the UN to it.
  • Horst78
    Horst78 23 November 2013 09: 17
    12
    Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything. With an approving pat on the shoulder.
    I completely agree. Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 23 November 2013 10: 03
      +9
      Quote: Horst78
      Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.


      Not some abstract special servicesand specifically the NKVD - the objects of influence are the same.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 17
        0
        Quote: Hudo
        namely, the NKVD - the objects of influence are the same.

        So why not Ivan the Terrible’s guardsmen?
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 23 November 2013 20: 53
          +1
          "So why can't I remember Ivan the Terrible's guardsmen?"

          do not trifle ... Invite Serdyukov
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 24 November 2013 02: 16
            0
            Quote: O_RUS
            .Invite Serdyukov

            really? what does the furniture maker have to do with it?
            but some non-staff members according to the Criminal Code of the RSFSR have something to "invite" for.
            that's just ... she is now in the Tsars-Ampirators of All Gazprom, inaccessible ...
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 23 November 2013 15: 46
      +3
      Which 5 column? Which is in the government?
    3. Basarev
      Basarev 23 November 2013 22: 22
      +2
      There are strong special services in Ukraine. There is no sensible command - remember at least the story of the SBU and the Crimea.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 23 November 2013 22: 27
        +3
        Quote: Basarev
        There are strong special services in Ukraine.


        Strong in what? In the protection of illegal mining of minerals (up to the export of black soil from the fields), the extraction of business, up to the protection of pimping - this is a herd of majors especially!
    4. smprofi
      smprofi 24 November 2013 00: 38
      -1
      Quote: Horst78
      I completely agree. Ukraine now needs not a strong army, but strong intelligence services to clean up the fifth column.

      I propose to see what is being done at the moment in Russia.
      about the development of "armored" equipment.
      and about the teachings. just armies and all sorts of "specials" (the latter are only inside the country and can do something)
      1. ytqnhfk
        ytqnhfk 29 November 2013 13: 32
        0
        Whatever happens look in your garden, we will figure it out, deal with your hut
  • experienced
    experienced 23 November 2013 10: 31
    34
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Yes, what aggression, there the fifth column is already eating up everything.

    Mobilization, the mother escorts her son to the front and laments: "Oh, dashingly, dashingly, where should I send letters?"
    Son: "Do not shout mommy! Write" captured ""

    The anecdote is old, but relevant. Ukrainians are good civilians. Warrant officers from them turned out to be good in Soviet times and sergeants, I recall "x ... l without bats, that x ... without testicles."
    Folk wisdom, modera ban people, not me stop
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 23 November 2013 13: 11
      14
      In the USSR in aviation,% 40 IAS officers are either Ukrainians or immigrants from Ukraine. In IA and IBA, among the flight personnel, this figure was slightly lower, and in other types of aviation there were enough of them, so there were a lot of excellent officers among Ukrainians. It is a fact.
      1. Current 72
        Current 72 23 November 2013 18: 08
        +8
        So no one denies this, under the USSR there are many nationalities who were excellent military specialists.
      2. CHILD
        CHILD 26 November 2013 12: 31
        0
        in Soviet times there were always a lot of military schools in Ukraine ... this is a fact)))) and the rest of this stems from .... (number of Ukrainian officers)
        1. Akim
          Akim 26 November 2013 12: 57
          0
          Quote: KIND
          in Soviet times there were always many military schools in Ukraine ... this is a fact)

          So what? Previously, there was no such territorial division. Example Donetsk Higher Military-Political Engineering College. General Epishev was annually recruited by a battalion of cadets (training battalion - 450-470 people). Worked up to 95 years. Cadets took only the Soviet oath. Although they went on guard, patrols are already in independent Ukraine. According to the release from the battalion, only 50 people remained on the territory of Ukraine. The rest went to their independent countries already. Especially a lot was from Azerbaijan. It was just that under the USSR, Ukraine had to serve and study biased.
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 23 November 2013 22: 24
      +8
      Here I am about the same thing. The kodla of embezzlers who seized power and the honest laboring Ukrainian people are not the same thing, it is a big difference
      1. alone
        alone 23 November 2013 22: 44
        +9
        Quote: Basarev
        Here I am about the same thing. The kodla of embezzlers who seized power and the honest laboring Ukrainian people are not the same thing, it is a big difference


        take and change the word "Ukrainian" to any name of the people, get the same thing. in Ukraine, in Russia or in any other country to embezzlers to one place
        honest working people.
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 24 November 2013 01: 27
          +2
          Quote: lonely
          take and change the word "Ukrainian" to any name

          the truth is so!
  • Kars
    Kars 23 November 2013 10: 33
    12
    I am waiting for an article that remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. From the USSR, Russia got how many millions of troops? How many aircraft-carrying cruisers. Tanks alone 40 THOUSAND pieces now!)))
    1. experienced
      experienced 23 November 2013 10: 37
      10
      Quote: Kars
      I am waiting for an article that remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. From the USSR, Russia got how many millions of troops? How many aircraft-carrying cruisers. Tanks alone 40 THOUSAND pieces now!)))

      Andrey, here you are wrong. Russia has nuclear weapons left and here it’s .. how many tanks, planes and ships were sawn ...
      I agree with the article, but Ukraine does not need an army now and no one will conquer it.
      1. Kars
        Kars 23 November 2013 10: 40
        +6
        Quote: seasoned
        Russia has nuclear

        The same topic is how much nuclear weapons remained from the USSR from the USSR, and how much it has retained. Nuclear submarines also went to all of the Russian Federation.
        Quote: seasoned
        I agree with the article, but Ukraine does not need an army now and no one will conquer it.

        Well, there are a lot of doubters, especially Russian users, who see the active militarization of Romania, which recently bought as many as 12 B \ U F-16 with delivery in the shortest possible time - a couple of three years.

        And the army should be an attribute of an independent state. Small, but efficient.
        1. experienced
          experienced 23 November 2013 10: 45
          +5
          Quote: Kars
          The same topic is how much nuclear weapons remained from the USSR from the USSR, and how much it has retained. Nuclear submarines also went to all of the Russian Federation.

          So far, enough to turn the USA and Europe into dust. It’s good that we have already stopped with the technique of 3 or 5 times destroying all life on the planet ...
          Quote: Kars
          And the army should be an attribute of an independent state. Small, but efficient.

          + 100500, Why puff up and compare yourself with the aggressor. Ukraine has enough of its own territory, and it is easier to defend than to conquer and the "elder brother" will help
          1. Kars
            Kars 23 November 2013 10: 52
            +1
            Quote: seasoned
            Enough for now

            The USSR had more. And at the same time, it still held a lot of tanks and a multimillion army. So you still have to wait for the article What happened to the former power of Russia. How many Russia squandered the wealth of the USSR. Where did the solid radar field, and a powerful network of airfields, where nuclear submarines? where are warships? where are almost all the same 50 tanks, how many planes from the USSR got I do not know is not my topic.
            1. experienced
              experienced 23 November 2013 10: 58
              21
              Quote: Kars
              The USSR had more.

              Well, in the days of the USSR, we (with you) could probably destroy life on the planet 10 times, now (without you) we will probably destroy 5 times ... The main thing that everyone knows - they’ll climb into Russia, so don’t mess around ...
              Quote: Kars
              How much of the Russian Federation squandered the wealth of the USSR.

              Andrey, here is the right of succession. How much squandered this is our right, Russia paid its debts for the entire USSR winked
              So do not "shaggy grandma"
              1. atalef
                atalef 23 November 2013 11: 12
                -25 qualifying.
                Quote: seasoned
                Russia paid debts for the entire USSR
                So do not "shaggy grandma"

                So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia. Why, speaking of debts, you do not remember what happened. And got no less.
                By the way, don’t forget, the main part of the debt was still written off, but foreign assets remained. hi
                1. experienced
                  experienced 23 November 2013 11: 17
                  23
                  Quote: atalef
                  So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia. Why, speaking of debts, you do not remember what happened. And got no less.

                  Last post ... I do not like smearing porridge on a plate ...
                  Russia paid all the debts of the USSR and this is an axiom, it became the legal successor of the USSR and it is an axiom, all the debts and inheritance of the USSR belong to Russia, it is an axiom ...
                  What is the bazaar about? I do not participate in this (flood) anymore
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 23 November 2013 13: 16
                    -2
                    Quote: seasoned
                    Russia paid all the debts of the USSR and this is an axiom, it has become the legal successor of the USSR and this is an axiom,

                    Disagree
                    preceding the collapse of the USSR (see Protocol on the Methodology for Determining the Shares of Sovereign States in the Debt and Assets of the USSR and Absolute Debt Amounts from December 4 to 1991) [3].

                    As a result, the following shares of all former union republics in the external debt of the USSR were established (in percent): Russia - 61,34; Ukraine - 16,37; Belarus - 4,13; Kazakhstan - 3,86; Uzbekistan - 3,27; Azerbaijan - 1,64; Georgia - 1,62; Lithuania - 1,41; Latvia - 1,14; Moldova - 1,29; Kyrgyzstan - 0,95; Armenia - 0,86; Tajikistan - 0,82; Turkmenistan - 0,70; Estonia - 0,62.
                    Of course, apart from decommissioned -

                    Russia is considered to be the successor of the USSR not only because it inherited the Soviet anthem, and in the structure of revenues mining is still in first place. Russia became the heir to the USSR when it took over most of the debt of the Soviet Union that had sunk into oblivion. Most of it was repaid only 15 years later, having paid with the Paris Club of creditors. They prefer not to recall the debt to the London Club on a solemn day, since it was possible to reissue it into Eurobonds traded on the market. In other words, if the Paris Club pressed Russia with tough agreements, then the country can buy the debts of the London Club at any time convenient for it.

                    As a result, in August of 2005, Russia paid ahead of time to the Paris Club 15 billions of dollars of debt

                    And now the asset
                    According to the Accounting Chamber, on January 1 of 1996, the debt of foreign states of Russia on intergovernmental loans amounted to 96,4 billion rubles. In terms of the rate quoted by the Central Bank of the Russian Federation for the payment and settlement agreements of the Soviet Union, this debt is equal to 149,6 billion dollars.

                    Of course, more than 80% of these debts were written off, but the balance is much more than 15 billion of debt to the Paris club, I'm not talking about real estate abroad
                    , as the Diamond Fund correctly noted, Gold and foreign exchange reserves (albeit not large), but the main thing is still the debt of the countries of the 3 world. All these countries are also included in the Paris Club, so even taking into account the restructuring of debts - all the same, more than 30 billion. came back. these are the facts.
                2. leon-iv
                  leon-iv 23 November 2013 11: 23
                  13
                  But no, for example, Russian factories at the beginning of the 90s were worse than in the same Ukraine. And if you look at the Baltic states, in general, from industrialized countries they became agrarian.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 23 November 2013 12: 28
                    -16 qualifying.
                    Quote: leon-iv
                    in general industrialized countries have become agrarian.

                    This is the box your media pushed into your brains.
                    1. servant.
                      servant. 23 November 2013 13: 09
                      +4
                      Prove with numbers!
                    2. Akim
                      Akim 23 November 2013 13: 28
                      -2
                      Quote: serviceman.
                      Prove with numbers!

                      In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.
                    3. ATATA
                      ATATA 23 November 2013 17: 00
                      10
                      Quote: Akim
                      In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.

                      This is growth from "0".
                    4. sasska
                      sasska 25 November 2013 01: 25
                      +7
                      In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall.
                      fool

                      As a resident of that very Pro-Baltics, I can say to home-grown "ANALitegs" and other cooks who can govern the State: I am simply moved by the statement that at that time there was growth. there were stock market speculations, which gave a short-term effect of prosperity. a kind of banking bubble. for the indicated period in the "local Palestinians" both Production and Agriculture were successfully screwed up.
                  2. iConst
                    iConst 24 November 2013 17: 24
                    +8
                    Quote: Akim
                    In Latvia, GDP growth from 2005-08 was 10,5%. Then fall. Since 2011, the annual growth of 5-5,5%.

                    SHO ?! What did you smoke?
                    I go to Latvia every year - my relatives live there. Latvians fleeing from Latvia in packs - NO work! What is the GDP growth !! ??

                    Houses are boarded up one in two !!!
                  3. sasska
                    sasska 25 November 2013 01: 05
                    +3
                    yes, it’s ... what eco pulled you to Geyvropu ...

                    PS: do not read Ukrainian newspapers even during the day. and at night - God forbid.
              2. leon-iv
                leon-iv 23 November 2013 13: 50
                +5
                Yes, yes. only all qualified engineers have dumped someone where.
              3. I am a Russian
                I am a Russian 1 December 2013 23: 06
                -1
                Quote: Akim
                This is the box your media pushed into your brains.


                akim you are a ukrainian emissary
            2. rolik2
              rolik2 23 November 2013 15: 01
              +1
              The article is another inadequate from the author.
              For some reason, the author brought information that Ukraine got the 4th strongest army, which she put it mildly about ... la, but forgot to add that the territory of Ukraine is 20 times smaller than Russia and it simply didn’t need such an army, and it would not be realistic contain it.

              Then she begins to blame the fact that she began to sell surplus weapons. I would like to ask the author "What to do with him? Salt or what?" Russia has decided to send the equipment to the oven. Well, we are not rich enough to throw money, we modernize it a little, capitalize and sell it, which is much more profitable than melting it down.

              And then generally pearls
              But the main thing is not even that, but that for a significant part of the population of Ukraine, it is Russia that is “their” country. The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.

              just do not comment)

              chided for exercises with NATO troops am

              issued another pearl
              Of course, the Ukrainian leadership will take most of this money for itself, but the military itself will get something

              here neighing not restraining. the author, even before writing this article, would ask about the financial side of this issue, and not sculpt his fabrications.
              1. Motors1991
                Motors1991 23 November 2013 17: 17
                13
                Problems with the army, this is a reflection of the problems of the state of Ukraine as such. A country that is crumbling and mired in the abyss of corruption cannot have a normal army. Ukraine exists because it is allowed by neighbors; at other times, they would have torn Nenka to pieces long ago. , and in the present they are only trying on.
              2. Kars
                Kars 23 November 2013 17: 26
                +6
                Quote: Motors1991
                at other times, they would have long torn to pieces Nenku, but in the present they are only trying on.

                It would have been a different time if nuclear weapons had not been handed over. And our presidents would have taken more care of the army, Ukrainians do not like to give their own.
              3. Motors1991
                Motors1991 23 November 2013 18: 33
                +9
                Our presidents have one concern, how to become a billionaire from a millionaire. In general, I recommend that our Svidomo read the history of the formation of the German state, as Prussia first appeared, and then the German Empire, from the withered Elector of Brandenburg, and this happened in the same time period as in Ukraine since the uprising led by B. Khmelnitsky. The difference is impressive.
              4. Kars
                Kars 23 November 2013 20: 44
                +3
                Quote: Motors1991
                Our presidents have one concern, how to become a billionaire from a millionaire.

                Do you think it is easier to do if someone occupies the country?
              5. Motors1991
                Motors1991 24 November 2013 18: 56
                +2
                For 9 months of this year, 33 billion dollars were exported from Ukraine. It is not difficult to calculate, at this rate 45 billion will be taken out to the end, and if all 50 are tried, this will make up about three quarters of the annual budget of our state. that under the Tatar-Mongol yoke with its tithe, the people lived better than with our Basurmans.
              6. sasska
                sasska 25 November 2013 01: 30
                +4
                a question with sarcasm: what color is your revolution now expected there? laughing
              7. shark
                shark 25 November 2013 11: 43
                0
                Now, according to the recommendations of the Euro-Washington Regional Committee, the revolution has been assigned the colors of the rainbow. Sim will win! love
              8. Motors1991
                Motors1991 25 November 2013 14: 03
                0
                I think there will be no revolution, there are not so many Svidomo, otherwise they have long started a referendum on association. People are more united by hatred of the current regime, and both in the East and in the West of Ukraine, this can shoot, but no one will shed blood for the EU .Most understands nothing good is waiting for us there.
            3. Netrocker
              Netrocker 26 November 2013 21: 28
              0
              still would! all the same, 10% of the tax, this is not up to 60% of direct and bony withdrawals of your dough! winked
      2. bistrov.
        bistrov. 23 November 2013 20: 54
        +8
        Quote: Kars
        It would be a different time, would not surrender nuclear weapons.

        Ukraine was simply not able to contain nuclear weapons, it did not have and did not have technologies for its production, special enterprises producing and servicing nuclear weapons. Well, nuclear warheads would stand for several years, then what should they be done with? Neither could Ukraine recycle or make new ones on its own. Therefore, do not fantasize.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 23 November 2013 22: 34
    +2
    Indeed, they were the first echelon of defense of the USSR. The strongest military districts of the Union. And now everyone around laughs at their parades.
    1. Kars
      Kars 24 November 2013 10: 20
      +1
      Quote: Basarev
      all around laughing

      who besides you dares?
    2. bistrov.
      bistrov. 24 November 2013 11: 06
      +3
      Quote: Kars
      Quote: Basarev
      all around laughing

      who besides you dares?

      Yes all. Here Basarev is right.
    3. Kars
      Kars 24 November 2013 11: 19
      +1
      Quote: bistrov.
      Yes all. Here Basarev is right.

      Could it be more specific? Romanians are laughing? Poles? Kazakhstan? Belarus?
    4. sasska
      sasska 25 November 2013 01: 39
      +1
      Yes, you and your holey winners already figure out which you have their parades. and then you can talk more specifically.

      and then "naturelich, Kemsk volost"
    5. Lesnik
      Lesnik 25 November 2013 01: 53
      -1
      Well, where are the "Estonian SSR, Tallinn" Liberals to see you there died of hunger or moved to Kiev?
      http://www.mk.ru/photo/social/4962-goryachie-estonskie-gei-k-zavetnoy-tseli-prod

      vigayutsya-meeeedlenno.html
      http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_22359/
      http://www.visitestonia.com/ru/%D1%87%D1%82%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE

      %D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B8-%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BC-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8

      F%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F/%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B4%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D0%B8%D0%

      BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC/%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%
      B5%D0%B4%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B9-%D1%81%D0%B
      5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%8C
      %D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2

      Let's laugh together
      http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/393598/
    6. sasska
      sasska 25 November 2013 11: 44
      +2
      here I got buggers and cons laughing
  • sasska
    sasska 25 November 2013 01: 37
    +4
    and I still laugh.
    in parades across the square, in fact, only the Winners walked.
    and now - gay parades in Kyiv square marching with you.

    high class, cho.
    https://www.google.ee/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCsQ
    twIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWIo02Ft8-K4&ei=oXCSUomzDMT
    BswaF8oHoCQ & usg = AFQjCNGzpLh468_FCrZwGMX20-qbyNWlBQ & bvm = bv.57127890, d.Yms
  • sasska
    sasska 25 November 2013 01: 01
    +2
    if you look at the Baltic states so generally from industrial countries have become agrarian

    The Baltic states became a European consumption market, for the price of joining Geyropa was precisely the extermination of the remaining both industry and agriculture.
    Yes, and in Soviet times, never The Estonian, Latvian, and Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republics did not position themselves as industrial.
    hi
  • Far East
    Far East 23 November 2013 12: 48
    14
    Quote: atalef
    So are all assets. Property and real estate of the USSR went to Russia.

    yes sho you envy! you are now paid for the Holocaust! your people more perished in the Second World War! than everyone else! poor YOU! hi you are like "scrooge mcduck" hi
    1. atalef
      atalef 23 November 2013 12: 59
      -23 qualifying.
      Quote: Far East
      yes sho you envy!

      What for ? Yours is yours, just half the truth is worse than a lie

      Quote: Far East
      you are now paid for the Holocaust!

      Like the prisoners of concentration camps and hijacked to work in Germany (Russian (and Ukrainians the same. Or is it a secret for you? My (former) father-in-law (Russian) receives the same. And?
      Do you think German money?
      Or envy?


      Quote: Far East
      your people more perished in the Second World War! than everyone else! poor YOU!

      We are not poor laughing

      Quote: Far East
      you are like "scrooge mcduck"

      It's better than mu ... ak like you
      laughing hi
      1. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 13: 38
        10
        Quote: atalef
        Like the prisoners of concentration camps and hijacked to work in Germany (Russian (and Ukrainians the same. Or is it a secret for you? My (former) father-in-law (Russian) receives the same. And?


        But do not share the link?
        and then in my memory the payments were literally one-time, well maybe a couple of times.
        just stolen to work and prisoners of concentration camps.
        do not provide dokumentik as Russian (and Ukrainians) ANNUAL pay?
      2. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 13: 51
        +2
        Quote: Rider
        But do not share the link?

        Yes, easy
        The German Fund "Remembrance, Responsibility and Future" will pay compensation to former concentration camp and ghetto prisoners, citizens deported to the territory of the German Empire within the borders of 1937 or to the territory occupied by it and forced to work in industrial enterprises or the public sector. Payments will also be received by persons who were in other places of detention, similar in terms of conditions to concentration camps, forced laborers of rural, municipal and household services. The largest payments - 15 thousand German marks - are due to former prisoners of concentration camps and ghettos. The collection and processing of applications in Russia is carried out by the Mutual Understanding and Reconciliation Foundation under the leadership of Natalia Malysheva, Chairman of the Board. The received data is sent for verification to Germany, and from there the applicants receive money.
        The Russian side sends requests under the standard procedure to the German MCP

        even
        Compensation may be claimed by relatives of former prisoners of concentration camps, ghettos and driven to forced labor in Germany if the person himself died after 16 on February 1999.


        Quote: Rider
        and then in my memory the payments were literally one-time, well maybe a couple of times.
        just stolen to work and prisoners of concentration camps.

        juvenile prisoners receive pensions - who is my father-in-law - his family was stolen (from the Pskov region. Struga Reds) when he was one and a half years old.

        Adults received one-time payments - but the question is none of these --- after all, they received 15 marks (almost euros) - how is that? Not a fee?
      3. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 14: 08
        +6
        Quote: atalef
        Adults received one-time payments - but the question is none of these --- after all, they received 15 marks (almost euros) - how is that? Not a fee?


        that is, there are no ANNUAL payments?
        so the verb "PAY" in your post should be replaced with "PAYED" once.
        and even then, how many people alive are left from those?
        in 2000 that year?
        particularly pleased with the passage from your quote
        Quote: atalef
        The biggest the sums of payments - 15 thousand German marks - are due to former prisoners of concentration camps and ghettos.

        that is, those who were hijacked to work in Germany were paid clearly less.
      4. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 14: 22
        -9
        Quote: Rider
        so the verb "PAY" in your post should be replaced with "PAYED" once.

        those. paid and paid - we are talking about money, am I right?


        Quote: Rider
        and even then, how many people alive are left from those?
        in 2000 that year?

        And the heirs? Who are supposed to do the same
        And with us they multiply, according to your


        Quote: Rider
        that is, hijacked to work in Germany paid clearly less

        Yes, most likely working on farms in Germany was a little more comfortable. than sitting in ghettos and concentration camps. By the way, not a single Jew was in the concentration camps. Or is the toad crushing?
        Would you like to change?
      5. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 14: 33
        +6
        Quote: atalef
        those. paid and paid - we are talking about money, am I right?

        no wrong.
        there is a certain difference between "PAY" (annually and constantly) and "PAYED" (one-time).
        and if you do not understand it, then compare the MONTHLY salary and the ONE-time dismissal allowance.
        Quote: atalef
        And the heirs? Who are supposed to do the same

        I really liked this question of yours, especially in the light of your answer
        Quote: atalef
        Relatives of former prisoners of concentration camps, ghettos, and those who were driven to forced labor to Germany may also claim compensation. if the person himself died after February 16, 1999.

        and if he died BEFORE this date, fly by, or what?
        do not want to clarify?
        Quote: atalef
        By the way, not a single Jew was in the concentration camps. Or is the toad crushing?

        especially considering that the Jews in the concentration camps by the time of their liberation survived about 200 000 people.
        but Israel received more compensation than the remaining millions of prisoners put together, and CONTINUES to receive.

        but I can’t talk about it.
        After all, the frog strangles me.

        so do you think?
      6. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 14: 55
        -7
        Quote: Rider
        no wrong.
        there is a certain difference between "PAY" (annually and constantly) and "PAYED" (one-time).
        and if you do not understand it, then compare the MONTHLY salary and the ONE-time dismissal allowance.

        Why is it wrong ? And there and there is money. Ie getting Russian, etc. nationalities of compensation from Germany, you are not in dispute. the only question is the amounts, And this is envy. I would understand if I said why the Jews get it. and others not. and here only the amounts are different. By the way, on this occasion, claims to pr-vu of the USSR (Russia) since all over the world they get more than in Russia. Or do you think compensation is received only in Russia and Israel?

        Quote: Rider
        I really liked this question of yours, especially in the light of your answer

        Like it or not. this is a provision for compensation. heirs have the right to receive (and in Russia the same) ilya not right?

        Quote: Rider
        and if he died BEFORE this date, fly by, or what?
        do not want to clarify?

        Not allowed . And what to do with it ? And if he died in a concentration camp. together with the whole family - so no one should. Claims against the German government.

        Quote: Rider
        especially considering that the Jews in the concentration camps by the time of their liberation survived about 200 000 people.

        From 6mln, and envied this? I wish your grandfather sat there?

        Quote: Rider
        but Israel received more compensation than the remaining millions of prisoners put together, and CONTINUES to receive.

        Germany recognizes particular responsibility to the Jews. Do you disagree with this? Claims to the German government. None of your grandmas pay. or from yours?

        Quote: Rider
        but I can’t talk about it.
        After all, the frog strangles me.

        Not a toad, but a whole toad.
      7. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 10
        +5
        Quote: atalef
        Why is it wrong ? And there and there is money.

        Well, if for you ONE-TIME payments, the same as CONSTANT, then you have alternative thinking, and here I am not your assistant.
        Quote: atalef
        Like it or not. this is a provision for compensation. heirs have the right to receive (and in Russia the same) ilya not right?

        did I quote your quote correctly?
        Is everything okay with the date?
        so the relatives of the dead BEFORE 1999 are not at work
        Ah ah ah.
        but as stated then, ALL paid.
        and with what aplomb.
        and reality turned out to be far more prosaic.
        Quote: atalef
        From 6mln, and envied this? I wish your grandfather sat there?

        both of my grandfathers died so that from 6 your million, at least something remnant.
        so stop speculating on this topic.
        Quote: atalef
        Germany recognizes particular responsibility to the Jews. Do you disagree with this? Claims to the German government. None of your grandmas pay. or from yours?

        stop spraying saliva, the stump is clear that you should all be in life, but in this case there is nothing to LIE that the Russian / Ukrainian / Soviet also PAY (and did not wave away once, such as choke on the little ones)
        Quote: atalef
        Not a toad, but a whole toad.

        Yes, mine, compared to yours, is a tadpole.
      8. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 15: 20
        -3
        Quote: Rider
        Well, if for you ONE-TIME payments, the same as CONSTANT, then you have alternative thinking, and here I am not your assistant.

        \ For me, both this and that money. Sometimes one-time is more constant


        Quote: Rider
        did I quote your quote correctly?
        Is everything okay with the date?
        so the relatives of the dead BEFORE 1999 are not at work
        Ah ah ah.

        Such an impression. that I came up with these rules. All claims against Germany

        Quote: Rider
        but as stated then, ALL paid.
        and with what aplomb.
        and reality turned out to be far more prosaic.

        Indeed, paid to all the living - prosaic.

        Quote: Rider
        both of my grandfathers died so that from 6 your million, at least something remnant.

        Like one of mine, the second returned as an invalid of the second group. what would you live

        Quote: Rider
        , but in this case there is nothing to LIE that the Russian / Ukrainian / Soviet also PAY (and did not wave away one-time, like here choke on the shortage)

        Firstly, they pay, and secondly, regarding the amounts and conditions of the claim against Germany. not we invented them
        By the way. if you are so offended by the amounts paid to Russians - give examples of refusal of compensation laughing I didn’t hear anything mass or single cases
        Maybe you heard?
      9. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 29
        +3
        Quote: atalef
        For me, this and that money

        I said alternative thinking.
        if you don’t see the difference before the singular and plural, then I wash my hands
        Quote: atalef
        Such an impression. that I came up with these rules. All claims against Germany

        you referred to them, and even with aaaagromny aplomb.
        Quote: atalef
        Indeed, paid to all the living - prosaic.

        indeed, dismissed, here and shut up - it does not happen more prosaic.
        Quote: atalef
        Like one of mine, the second returned as an invalid of the second group. what would you live

        I asked to omit this topic, so as not to escalate the already tense "dialogue"
        Quote: atalef
        First pay

        firstly - PAYED, one-time and forever.
        Quote: atalef
        give examples of refusal of compensation

        and what's this?
        where does the refusal of already not great sums here?
        what more do you refer to?
      10. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 15: 39
        -8
        Quote: Rider
        I said alternative thinking.
        if you do not see the difference before a single

        I believe in math, and wash your hands, hygiene above all

        Quote: Rider
        you referred to them, and even with aaaagromny aplomb.

        Aplomb? do you know the meaning of this word? Germany pays according to its rules. me that the Papuans refer?

        Quote: Rider
        indeed, dismissed, here and shut up - it does not happen more prosaic.

        alternative - do not take it. shout and be indignant - I haven’t seen either one --- it means everyone is happy - with the exception of some indignant granddaughters laughing

        Quote: Rider
        I asked to omit this topic, so as not to escalate the already tense "dialogue"

        but? And who started? Or do you think only your grandfathers fought?

        Quote: Rider
        firstly - PAYED, one-time and forever.

        So what's the problem ? In sums? Could not take

        Quote: Rider
        and what's this?

        So, to nothing

        Quote: Rider
        where does the refusal of already not great sums here?

        And if not great. maybe it was just proud to send three bolts of Hitler’s descendants?

        Quote: Rider
        what more do you refer to?

        I, unlike you, write specifically, but the fact that you do not like it is peasant.
      11. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 49
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        I believe in math

        They believe in religion, and mathematics is an exact science, you need to KNOW it.
        Quote: atalef
        Aplomb? do you know the meaning of this word?

        however you claimed that
        PAY, not paid.
        more precisely it is necessary.
        however if you BELIEVE in mathematics ...
        Quote: atalef
        alternative - do not take it. shout and resent

        and what does this have to do with our dispute?
        you somehow do not want to refuse a salary as a protest?
        Quote: atalef
        but? And who started?

        so you started laughing whoever above suggested to my grandfather to sit in a concentration camp.
        You do not remember what you said?
        Ah ah ah
        Quote: atalef
        I, unlike you, write specifically

        forgive me, but you write frank nonsense.
        I did not understand why 80-90 year old grandparents should have refused money.

        something brought you wrong.
    2. O_RUS
      O_RUS 23 November 2013 21: 04
      +1
      My regards hi

      Quote: Rider
      then I wash my hands


      do not leave Check back often!
  • Far East
    Far East 23 November 2013 14: 09
    +8
    Quote: atalef
    It's better than mu ... ak like you

    well, you are definitely MUDA ...! until the end of your life on this earth you will WHILE you are poor, you have suffered the most! why YOU DO NOT LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD! More precisely, HATE! For more than 90 years, my grandmother got it in the nineties! and do not whine! in short, everything about you is clear to me and as clear as a white day! ... IDEAS! soldier
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 14: 25
    -7
    Quote: Far East
    you until the end of life on this earth will whine sho you are poor,

    We are not poor

    Quote: Far East
    why YOU DO NOT LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD! More precisely, HATE!

    you are far from the whole world, although it’s for me on the drum

    Quote: Far East
    ! my grandmother more than 90 years she in the nineties got shaw that's all! and do not whine

    Strange, she got it. and you whine. What are grannies grandmothers - tu-tu?

    Quote: Far East
    ! in short, everything about you is clear to me and as clear as a white day! ... IDEAS!

    Humanoids? Whether ?
    Kill yourself against the wall laughing
  • Far East
    Far East 23 November 2013 14: 46
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Strange, she got it. and you whine. What are grannies grandmothers - tu-tu?
    I stated the FACT! you whine! WORLDWIDE!
    Quote: atalef
    Kill yourself against the wall

    Well, well, God’s chosen people! I didn’t come up with anything else! HUMANOID! Is this how you end your life? when payment is late! laughing
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 15: 06
    -13 qualifying.
    Quote: Far East
    I stated the FACT! you whine! WORLDWIDE!

    Facts in the studio

    Quote: Far East
    when payment is late!

    Why do we need it
    We are already
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 15: 19
    +7
    Quote: atalef
    Facts in the studio

    I advise you to read the book of one (I emphasize) Jewish the author (whose parents really suffered in the Nazi camps) "The Holocaust Industry" N. Finkelstein.
    everything is painted in sufficient detail there.
    Quote: atalef
    Why do we need it
    We are already

    yes, yes - we are in the know, and recently your Netanyahu flew to Moscow, he decided to personally see the GDP with his finger.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 15: 24
    -11 qualifying.
    Quote: Rider
    Recommended reading book by one (I emphasize) Jewish author (whose parents really suffered in the Nazi camps) "The Holocaust Industry" N. Finkelstein.
    everything is painted in sufficient detail there.

    SAME ME FIGURE. READ THE BOOK OF NOVODVORSKAYA ABOUT RUSSIA.

    Quote: Rider
    yes, yes - we are in the know, and recently your Netanyahu flew to Moscow, he decided to personally see the GDP with his finger

    It is strange how exactly the Kazakh comrades lower their GDP.
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 15: 36
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    SAME ME FIGURE. READ THE BOOK OF NOVODVORSKAYA ABOUT RUSSIA.

    and what did not please this author?
    in the "discussion" with the pimply, I also brought this book, in response I heard roughly your "arguments" (if you can call them that)
    however, he did not cite the ARGUMENTED denials (neither of the author himself) but his data, numbers, and studies.

    can you get away?
    Quote: atalef
    It is strange how exactly the Kazakh comrades lower their GDP.

    Yes, many people do not like GDP in their homeland.
    one for the fact that: "a dictator and does not like democracy and LGBT people"
    and others for the fact that: "he sold himself to the West and does not want the revival of Russia."
    it seemed, what does the "Kazakh comrades" have to do with it?
  • Akim
    Akim 23 November 2013 12: 25
    -9
    Quote: seasoned
    Russia paid debts for the entire USSR

    That's why they say A and not mention B? atalef is right. But in addition to assets, Russia received a gold and foreign exchange fund and a diamond. Nevertheless, the CIS countries built it all over again.
    1. servant.
      servant. 23 November 2013 13: 11
      +6
      Well, you yourself ran away from Russia running away, along with mud and watered with fraternity so ... Who drove you?
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 13: 30
        +3
        Quote: serviceman.
        You yourself ran away from Russia

        From which Russia? There was no such state then.
        1. servant.
          servant. 24 November 2013 07: 47
          +2
          Russia has always been Russia and it will lag behind ...
        2. Akim
          Akim 24 November 2013 09: 13
          -7
          Quote: serviceman.
          Russia has always been Russia and it will lag behind ...

          That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...
        3. servant.
          servant. 24 November 2013 09: 22
          +5
          Army and Navy! When once again the brothers get their tail pinched, they shout help the Russian brother! Help ... And then the brothers spit in the back ... Yes, and they are allies against the brothers ....
        4. Akim
          Akim 24 November 2013 09: 29
          -2
          Quote: serviceman.
          When once again the brothers pinch their tail, they shout to the Russian brother help!

          Let's do it without another propaganda. Everyone says like that. If only revered in other languages. Look at the actions - who did you help? Little unrecognized states. The biggest political victory for today is Syria. Fortunately, in the USA, not the dumb Bush Jr. is sitting, but the cowardly Obama.
      2. 31231
        31231 24 November 2013 18: 58
        0
        Can you tell me how many allies your leadership has?
        I will not ask for Ukraine, because personally to me Ukrainians are not only allies, but also brothers.
      3. Akim
        Akim 24 November 2013 19: 14
        -1
        Quote: 31231
        Can you tell me how many allies your leadership has?

        That's for sure a kindergarten in the measurements. They have no allies. Only I did not notice in the topics about Russia that the Ukrainian respondents rushed first with such brutality, as even here it began.
        But the topic is about the army. All the same, they ruined the politics.
      4. 31231
        31231 24 November 2013 20: 34
        0
        That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...


        I do not understand something ?! Your phrase?
        Although maybe you personally do not feel like an ally to the people of the Russian Federation.
  • iConst
    iConst 25 November 2013 13: 51
    0
    Quote: Akim
    That's why you have almost no allies. Sad ...

    I wonder who has them?

    I mean, if you look more closely, now they are "friends" not with someone, but against someone.
    And they change partners like ... gloves. laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 13: 42
    +7
    Quote: Akim
    That's why they say A and not mention B? atalef is right. But in addition to assets, Russia received a gold and foreign exchange fund and a diamond

    tell me where in Ukraine there were diamond deposits.
    and about gold, it's almost a detective story. since at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the country's gold reserves amounted to 0 point Y tenths.
    so how much do you take away from zero percent on the bounty of the soul?

    You should at least study the history of the problem before you lie.
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 14: 10
      +4
      Quote: Rider
      tell me where in Ukraine there were diamond deposits

      The diamond fund is formed not depending on the place of production. In general, in Ukraine, amber, quartz, diamonds, sapphires, topazes, beryls, and gold were mined under the USSR. On a scale during the demise of the USSR, this was already a little, but substantial production was introduced in the 30s and 50s.
      1. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 14: 42
        +7
        Quote: Akim
        The diamond fund is formed not depending on the place of production

        so under the USSR there was EVERYTHING common, and the extracted resources in the RSFSR were also distributed to ALL republics.
        and since at the time of the collapse he was in the territory of Russia, he was not subject to division.
        but there was no gold as such in the treasury (where was it divided, unanswered question)
        and share accordingly - nothing.

        therefore, an attempt to expose Russia as a debtor flies past the cash register.

        when dividing ALL republics AGREED with the provisions of the contract,
        and therefore, they go to ... uh, into a brighter future (let the earth be them - black earth).
      2. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 14: 59
        +4
        Quote: Rider
        when dividing ALL republics AGREED with the provisions of the contract,
        and therefore, they go to ... uh, into a brighter future (let the earth be them - black earth).

        Correctly. AGREED. Therefore, one does not have to constantly kick that Russia alone paid all the debts of the USSR. This was not only a unilateral decision of Moscow.
      3. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 22
        +4
        Quote: Akim
        Therefore, one does not have to constantly kick that Russia alone paid all the debts of the USSR.


        but what except someone, someone, someone paid?
        I did not know.
        But can I have a closer look?
        Well, at least on the example of Ukraine.
        to whom?
        when?
        how much ?
      4. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 15: 30
        -4
        Quote: Rider
        but what except someone, someone, someone paid?

        They didn’t understand correctly. It is said that only Russia and all Soviet pluses also went to Russia alone. And about the gold and foreign exchange fund - a myth. They never emptied him to zero. Even in Romania under Ceausescu.
      5. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 41
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        It is said that only Russia and all Soviet pluses also went to only Russia

        as well as the minuses that you are in a hurry to forget about.
        but about the gold reserve, this is the point. there was not 0.
        and about 300 tons
        out of 7000 (data are approximate, because I don’t remember exactly)

        however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

        learn materiel.
      6. atalef
        atalef 23 November 2013 15: 44
        -3
        Quote: Rider
        however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

        learn materiel.

        then I don’t understand. screams of ouri patriots about the Russian remaining in Kazakhstan, including? By the way, you are among them. So what about Baikonur?
      7. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 15: 59
        +5
        Quote: atalef
        then I don’t understand. screams of ouri patriots about the Russian remaining in Kazakhstan, including? By the way, you are among them. So what about Baikonur?

        Russia leases it.
        and in my opinion it’s all said.
    2. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 15: 46
      0
      Quote: Rider
      however, they should not have been distributed among the republics, since the property remaining in the territory of each republic AUTOMATICALLY became the property of THIS country, and was not subject to division.

      And rightly so. Moscow was located on the territory of Russia, and this was the Soviet government, and not the governments of the Union republics that made debts. By your logic, pay them.
    3. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 16: 00
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      And rightly so. Moscow was located on the territory of Russia, and this was the Soviet government, and not the governments of the Union republics that made debts. By your logic, pay them.

      so Russia paid.
      or will you deny it?
    4. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 16: 18
      +3
      Quote: Rider
      so Russia paid.
      or will you deny it?

      They returned like ponies in a circle. I paid for it and received Soviet bonuses. All is fair.
      I personally would only get a donut hole from that fund, and that is unlikely. Then the vouchers were sold without remorse, because they did not know what to really do with them.
    5. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 16: 55
      0
      Quote: Akim
      They returned like ponies in a circle. I paid for it and received Soviet bonuses. All is fair.

      and, excuse me, were there many bonuses?
      and were they worth the debts of the USSR?

      when you answer this question, then I think it will be possible to continue the discussion.

      and now she is clearly at a standstill.
    6. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 17: 39
      +2
      Quote: Rider
      and, excuse me, were there many bonuses?
      and were they worth the debts of the USSR?

      It does not seem that Russia Libya Iraq, etc. write off new debts.
    7. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 17: 54
      +1
      Quote: Akim
      It does not seem that Russia Libya Iraq, etc. write off new debts.

      what relation do the NEW debts of Russia have to the debts of the USSR?
    8. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 18: 02
      0
      Quote: Rider
      what relation do the NEW debts of Russia have to the debts of the USSR?

      These are the debts of these states to the USSR, to the collection of which Russia has the right.
    9. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 19: 43
      +2
      Quote: Akim
      These are the debts of these states to the USSR, to the collection of which Russia has the right.

      and took a lot?
      and indeed, how much can be taken from Bantustan, in which the power has already changed three times.
      but the debts of the MOST USSR were before the Saaavs all other powers, and nobody seems to have reduced or canceled them.
    10. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 19: 48
      0
      Quote: Rider
      and took a lot?
      and indeed, how much can be taken from Bantustan, in which the power has already changed three times.

      A lot a little - I will not count. Anyway, neither I nor you will prove anything. A change of government does not automatically annul a country's debt. The RSFSR and then the USSR paid royal debts.
    11. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 20: 07
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      A lot a little - I will not count.

      which brings us back to the beginning of the dispute that Russia practically did not get anything for the debts of third countries to the USSR.
      but ONE Russia paid for the debts of the USSR to other countries.
      and therefore, all sorts of talk about the fact that Russia got some kind of buns bypassing the former rep - talk in favor of the poor.

      I think the topic is closed.

      wish you hello.
    12. Kars
      Kars 23 November 2013 20: 46
      +1
      Quote: Rider
      , Russia DID NOT REALLY RECEIVE ANYTHING.

      But is this really our problem? And for the written-off debt to Algeria, Algeria purchases Russian weapons. Iraq is going to do something similar.
      And the fact that they could not get, blame only yourself.
    13. 31231
      31231 24 November 2013 19: 13
      0
      Do not tell me what's wrong with the armored personnel carriers for Iraq ?! Did they manage to become Iraq’s debt to Ukraine? Or went into zero gravity?
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 15: 31
    -3
    Quote: Rider
    but what except someone, someone, someone paid?
    I did not know.
    But can I have a closer look?
    Well, at least on the example of Ukraine.
    to whom?
    when?
    how much ?

    Well, Kazakhstan has undertaken obligations on the debt of the USSR — it refused to pay the same, but for some reason it requires
    The Kazakh government has estimated the damage to the environment caused by the accident of the Russian Proton-M launch vehicle on July 2 at the Baikonur cosmodrome at almost $ 90 million.

    Isn't it a bit much?
    Cleaner than the Holocaust, no casualties. and 90 give lemons. laughing
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 06
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    Well, Kazakhstan assumed obligations for the debt of the USSR

    so I say - nobody paid anything to anyone (except Russia)
    Quote: atalef
    Isn't it a bit much?
    Cleaner than the Holocaust no injuries. and give 90 lemons

    Do not exaggerate, but just study the topic.
    in the Holocaust, Germany paid Israel a few TENS BILLION dolarians.

    or better yet, read my book.
    I think get rid of multi-illusions.

    and the claim is legal, for the damage caused.
    Yes, and Roscosmoss lesson.
    can start to work with your hands and not ...

    although kaneshno sturgeon should be cut.

    and the accident itself is muddy, to mix up the attachment points of several blocks, this looks like sabotage.

    but shhhh ...
    Spies do not doze off.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 16: 17
    +4
    [quote = Rider] Do not exaggerate, but simply study the topic.
    on the Holocaust, Germany paid to Israel several tens of billions of dolaria. [/ quote]

    Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur, then the rent is small, then 90 lyamov, tell me at least someone was hurt? And then for what money?

    [quote = Rider] or better yet, read my book.
    I think get rid of multi-illusions.
    [Quote]

    I read here that the Ukrainians are descended from the Atlanteans, and this is the same truth

    [quote] In Kazakhstan / Forty-five signs of this Kazakh - "nats"
    Stellar, 18 December 2012, 05: 24 0
    1. At a subconscious level, he has an Asian inferiority complex, but he tries to convince others that this is not so.
    2. Even if he speaks good Russian, he never shows it in public.
    3. In each case, he complains that during the “Russian occupation” the damned invaders destroyed the Kazakh language and culture, although in those days he did not even try to study this very culture and language.

    4. When a grandmother speaks to him in a bus in Russian, he pretends that he does not understand her at all, even if this is not so at all. Joyfully, without a shadow of embarrassment, he informs the person who speaks to him in Russian that there is no belmez in him. If possible, he tries to be indignant that the Russian language is imposed on him in this way.
    5. Hates (or pretends to hate) everything non-Kazakh. Nevertheless, when she removes whores, prefers blondes with a European appearance. When asked why, with a greasy laugh, he answers that the Russians have been fucking his people for many years, and now he wants to recoup.
    6. On Fridays, he must visit the mosque, and after the mosque, he eats arak in institutions with blackjack and whores.
    7. In a society of Kazakhs (even in their own family) they will never touch pork fat, expressing their terrible disgust for this food product with their whole appearance. When no one sees, he begs the watchman Mikhalych for the hate of a hateful product and with a rumbling quietly devours it.
    8. Secretly envious of Michael Jackson, who dyed himself in white and straightened his hair, among his fellow tribesmen he says how he got these pale, nosy and bumpy-eyed faces of non-Kazakhs.
    9. When a Kazakh national concert is shown on TV, if no one is nearby, with a cry of "Fu ..!", The TV quickly switches to several channels away from the channel where the concert is broadcast, if there is someone from the Kazakh brothers nearby, for a long time and tediously admires the skill of the performers.
    10. With indifference (in fact) refers to the Kazakh customs and traditions. In public, he rants about the need to develop a national culture and language, and about the obligatory, even if violent, study of them by non-Kazakhs. [/ Quote]

    http://baursak.kz/blog/kazakhstan/640.html#.UpCbgdKGqnc

    very interesting (here the continuation of the rest 35) An interesting little book.
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 26
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur

    atalef, please don’t be unprotected, type your text more calmly, otherwise it’s hard to read with brackets, or clean your browser’s cache.

    but according to Baikonur, so I say that it is RENT, that is, it is NOT the property of Russia which it did not want to transfer to another republic.
    she PAYS for her.
    and as far as the amount is concerned, a new start will be completed at the Far East, and let Kazakhstan do whatever it wants with its spaceport, at least a museum, at least for scrap metal.
    actually from Kazakhstan it’s a big stupid thing, because besides Russia, NO one needs a spaceport, and they themselves can’t pull it.
    since 80% of the staff is Russian. and the launch itself is sharpened ONLY for Russian missiles.

    it’s like with a Ukrainian pipe, didn’t want to share - let it rust.


    and by the way, in vain did you bring something about the Kazakhs there (I didn’t read it) since I am Russian.
    but they are slipping into ridiculing nations, in my opinion - low.
    I can sit on my beloved skate - anti-Semitism.

    torment brush off.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 16: 34
    0
    Quote: Rider
    Talef, please don’t be unprotected, type your text more calmly, otherwise it’s hard to read with brackets, or clean your browser’s cache.

    The tablet is buggy, but nothing that has eyes - let it see

    Quote: Rider
    but according to Baikonur, so I say that this is RENT, that is, it is NOT the property of Russia which she did not want to transfer to another republic

    I do not understand, i.e. You want to say that Baikonur is the property of Kazakhstan? What business is it with? In general, Kazakhstan, in addition to the desert steppe, has invested something there?

    Quote: Rider
    and by the way, in vain did you bring something about the Kazakhs there (I didn’t read it) since I am Russian.

    But in vain, did not read. although I thought. that you are a Jew. by the amount of read about the Jews laughing Can you read about native Kazakhs? And then I believe in all this. dissuade me.

    Quote: Rider
    I can sit on my beloved skate - anti-Semitism.

    Have you climbed off him?

    Quote: Rider
    torment brush off

    Nothing, you answer the questions. especially according to 45 rules. How do you get along there. they spread rot. and you endure. By the way, how is the goy in Kazakh?
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 47
    +5
    Quote: atalef
    I do not understand, i.e. You want to say that Baikonur is the property of Kazakhstan?

    it is, just type "Baikonur rent" in Google and (I hope) you will understand everything
    Quote: atalef
    In general, Kazakhstan, in addition to the desert steppe, has invested something there?

    But this is the conditions for the separation of the republics, it does not matter who and how much has invested there, to be in the territory of the country - you will get ownership.
    otherwise, ALL would be tortured to each other to pay alimony
    Quote: atalef
    But in vain, did not read. although I thought. that you are a Jew. by the amount of read about the Jews

    yes you know, have to.
    since anti-Semitism is my hobby, and more than once butted with pimples and profs (and other Israelis), I have to correspond.
    that came in handy with you.
    to eliminate the inaccuracies you have cited.

    but basically everything goes pretty civilized.
    Quote: atalef
    Have you climbed off him?

    And what do you think ?
    Quote: atalef
    How do you get along there. they spread rot. and you endure.

    Yes, here we are, we endure, endure.
    and then we turn cities into a lunar landscape.

    and so we are peaceful and not evil.

    but you know, Kazakhs are one of the most sane peoples in the post-Soviet space.
    certainly not to be compared with Caucasians.
    so the word "spread rot" is not the best.
    although everyday nationalism, no, no, yes, it’s slipping.
    Again, this mess with national language.

    but what do you care?
    something you are again leaving the wrong track.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 17: 06
    -7
    Quote: Rider
    it is, just type "Baikonur rent" in Google and (I hope) you will understand everything

    What didn’t I understand? And where is justice? How did Kazakhstan grab the Russian Baikonur?

    Quote: Rider
    But this is the conditions for the separation of the republics, it does not matter who and how much has invested there, to be in the territory of the country - you will get ownership.
    otherwise, ALL would be tortured to each other to pay alimony

    What are you saying ?

    Quote: Rider
    yes you know, have to.
    because anti-Semitism is my hobby

    Well, thank God . It is very easy to hate the Jews, probably not to utter a fuss against the Kazakhs. anus is compressed
    laughing

    Quote: Rider
    Yes, here we are, we endure, endure.
    and then we turn cities into a lunar landscape.

    Is this a threat to Kazakhstan?

    Quote: Rider
    but you know, Kazakhs are one of the most sane peoples in the post-Soviet space.

    How do you know ? You have not read anything about them

    Quote: Rider
    certainly not to be compared with Caucasians.
    so the word "spread rot" is not the best

    those. Are you implying that the Caucasians are spreading rot on the Russians?

    Quote: Rider
    but what do you care?
    something you are again leaving the wrong track.

    And why did you decide that I should ride your rut. Maybe you’ll start to answer questions. otherwise you’ll move out and move out. The National Security Committee of the Republic of Kazakhstan - is not sleeping, right?
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 17: 40
    +6
    Quote: atalef
    What didn’t I understand?

    and not surprisingly, you did not even know this, but climbed into a topic in which neither with your ear nor with a snout.
    Quote: atalef
    What are you saying ?

    I’m saying what you DO NOT KNOW.
    that is, simply - I am closing the gaps in your upbringing.
    Quote: atalef

    Well, thank God . It is very easy to hate the Jews, probably not to utter a fuss against the Kazakhs. anus is compressed

    I don’t know what YOU is shrinking, but what is the topic of Kazakh-Russian relations related to the topic of our discussion?
    Have you decided to engage in boltalogy?
    Quote: atalef
    How do you know ? You have not read anything about them

    and I live next door to them, in our house, through one, Russians, Kazakhs.
    and so far there have been no graters.
    Quote: atalef
    those. Are you implying that the Caucasians are spreading rot on the Russians?

    Yes, I do not hint, but we do not remain in debt.
    every day reports, then one mujik was canceled, then a pack.
    Quote: atalef
    Is this a threat to Kazakhstan?

    it is necessary for ALL to know.
    than usually wars with Russia end.
    Quote: atalef
    And why did you decide that I should ride your rut. Maybe you’ll start to answer questions. otherwise you move out and move out

    what questions?
    What else have I not answered you?
    on Baikonur - answered
    for USSR debts - also
    on interethnic relations - similarly
    how many denyushek you Germany (and not only she) unfastened - educated

    What else do you want to know?

    Do not be shy, I can improve your education on many issues.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 17: 52
    -2
    Quote: Rider
    and not surprisingly, you did not even know this, but climbed into a topic in which neither with your ear nor with a snout.

    Where am I to you, an expert on everything from Israel to the rest of the world --- except Kazakhstan

    Quote: Rider
    Oh, and I say what you DO NOT KNOW.
    that is, simply - I am closing the gaps in your upbringing.

    Gaps in knowledge - this is education - do not smoke dung (instead of tobacco)

    Quote: Rider
    and I live next door to them, in our house, through one, Russians, Kazakhs.
    and so far there have been no graters.

    Strange, but I thought your neighbors were exclusively Jews from Israel

    Quote: Rider
    but what is the topic of Kazakh-Russian relations related to the topic of our discussion?

    exactly the same as Kazakh-Jewish

    Quote: Rider
    Yes, I do not hint, but we do not remain in debt.
    every day reports, then one mujik was canceled, then a pack.

    In Kazakhstan ?

    Quote: Rider
    it is necessary for ALL to know.
    than usually wars with Russia end.

    And to Kazakhstan? Do you say the lawsuit in Baikonur is legal?

    Quote: Rider
    what questions?
    What else have I not answered you?
    on Baikonur - answered
    for USSR debts - also
    on interethnic relations - similarly

    Answered ? To whom, if only to myself

    Quote: Rider
    how many denyushek you Germany (and not only she) unfastened - educated

    Much less than Kazakhstan will pull from Russia for Baikonur

    Quote: Rider
    Do not be shy, I can improve your education on many issues.

    belay laughing
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 18: 05
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Where am I to you, an expert on everything from Israel to the rest of the world --- except Kazakhstan

    why "except"?
    after all, I’m educating you about the affiliation of the cosmodrome and international relations.
    and not only do you not know this, you are also carrying a blizzard.
    Quote: atalef
    Gaps in knowledge - this is education - do not smoke dung (instead of tobacco)

    Well, I’m not so good at terminology, but I kick you a lot into your ignorance of various subjects
    (Do you still BELIEVE in mathematics?)
    Quote: atalef
    exactly the same as Kazakh-Jewish

    In Kazakhstan ?

    And to Kazakhstan? Do you say the lawsuit in Baikonur is legal?

    urinate in Kazakhstan (their modzhiks)
    and Natsik bark
    or can you cite pimer ethnic conflicts in the Republic of Kazakhstan?

    Are you sure the claim will be satisfied?
    Quote: atalef
    Much less than Kazakhstan will pull from Russia for Baikonur

    and answer for the words?
    I advised you to read the book, the numbers are given there, so MUCH KZ will not be received in 100 years, even if the rockets fall every year.

    so still on what issues should you still be advised 7
    or you already decided to continue the discussion for the sake of an artistic whistle.

    do not be shy.

    yes, by the way, if you decide to continue the dialogue, then start a new branch.
    otherwise it is inconvenient to answer in the "narrow-film" version.
    here just write what is answered below.
  • Kasym
    Kasym 23 November 2013 20: 21
    +9
    atalef. Sorry to interfere. You obviously know little about the situation in Baikonur. I will not write about the last accident, because it's not all over there. Kazakhstan does not see money for Baikonur. And what has Roscosmos invested in Baikonur? What are the investment figures? 115 mil. dollars for rent we received in the form of fighters with a developed resource, training of our cadets in the Russian Federation. We did not receive a single kopeck from this lease to the country's budget. And this figure is not taken from the ceiling. Exactly so much money is needed for the maintenance of the city and the cosmodrome. Yes, it's not even a matter of money - we refuse to lease in order to deal with the cosmodrome and space on the same rights as Russia. RK'S BASIC DISSATISFACTION ON BAIKONUR IS THAT THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION DOES NOT INVEST IN THE MODERNIZATION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF THE CITY AND THE COSMODROME. This leads to almost complete wear and tear of the infrastructure. On the other hand, we understand why the Russian Federation is in no hurry to do this. Therefore, a decision was made to revise the agreement on Baikonur. Now we ourselves can invest in the cosmodrome. And we certainly won't let the city and the cosmodrome die. Atalef, you know that the Republic of Kazakhstan has lost about 250 mil. dollars - read the agreements on the Angara and Baiterek between Astana and Moscow? RK is no longer a poor country - you are behind our reality. New agreements on Baikonur were reached in Yekaterinburg and are reflected in the new treaty on friendship and good-neighborliness between our countries. Russia is not leaving Baikonur anywhere. Do you even know how many launch sites are there and how many on the new Russian Vostochny?
    THERE IS INTERESTING WHAT THE JEWS WOULD DO IF THERE WERE DELIVERED TO OUR PLACE (in Baikonur, under the same conditions)? It’s sure that every penny of costs was calculated and then this figure would be multiplied by 2 (or maybe 3).
    As for the int. relations in the Republic of Kazakhstan - read the article on this site from November 20 or 21 (that is, more recently) why the Russians will not leave Kazakhstan. I really didn’t like your way of writing a comment on this topic. We, in the Republic of Kazakhstan, believe that the issue is interethnic. relations are solved better than in any other country in the CIS. And proud of it. Yes, at the household level, it sometimes occurs. But this does not go beyond this. But it has always been. It's unavoidable . Another thing is that there is a certain feature beyond which no one will cross. And this is our mentality. So do not about anus, etc. .. This way you insult not only Russians, but also Kazakhs and all Kazakhstanis. hi
  • Egoza
    Egoza 24 November 2013 00: 06
    +2
    Quote: Kasym
    And what did Roskosmos invest in Baikonur?

    "It turns out that there was no waste in Roscosmos! The rocket itself stole the funds allocated for it and disappeared with them in the Tikhrm Ocean" (c) laughing
  • Hug
    Hug 23 November 2013 19: 31
    0
    Quote: Rider
    Quote: atalef
    Since the money is neither Kazakhstani nor Russian, I am more concerned about the divorce in Baikonur




    ... after all, I can sit on my favorite skate - anti-Semitism.

    torment brush off.



    Well, at least one honestly admitted that he is anti-Semite.
    For honesty - (+)
    For anti-Semitism - (-)
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 20: 02
    +4
    Quote: Kram
    Well, at least one honestly admitted that he is anti-Semite.
    For honesty - (+)
    For anti-Semitism - (-)

    and what should I do about this?
    sob?

    you'd better pay attention to the fact that FOR ALL of my arguments, my counterparties did not bring a single sane co-argument.

    and you are plus, minus, well, just like in a kindergarten.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 23 November 2013 23: 08
    +2
    One gets the feeling that some of the republics want to cash in on Russia - a very indicative example of the Baltic states, when they wanted to squeeze 80 lards from Russia openly
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 16: 27
    -1
    Quote: Rider
    and the claim is legal, for the damage caused.
    Yes, and Roscosmoss lesson.
    can start to work with your hands and not ...

    That is, so now, from scratch, cut down 90 lemons to punish Russian Roskosmos for everything that he invested in Kazakhstan and its economy --- is this legal? Do you have a percentage from this? Write - at least one person was hurt?

    Quote: Rider
    and the accident itself is muddy, to mix up the attachment points of several blocks, this looks like sabotage.

    It looks like a diversion to squeeze the dough in a empty place. My distant Kazakh Froind.
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 36
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    Ie so, cut down 90 lemons from scratch

    honestly I'm not sure that they will pay this amount.
    (I do not monetize this topic)
    but if you want for your sake I can rummage through the network, will you be very upset if the total numbers are less?
    Quote: atalef
    It looks like a diversion to squeeze the dough in a empty place. My distant Kazakh Froind.

    you just forgot that missile carriers are being collected in Russia, and Kazakhstan cannot be reached there.
    and it would be more correct to call me a Kazakh "friend" since I have already announced my nationality.

    (quotation marks are required) since it’s hard to call us friends.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 16: 53
    -4
    Quote: Rider
    but if you want for your sake I can rummage through the network, will you be very upset if the total numbers are less?

    Exactly how much you are saddened by the difference between one-time payments and a pension

    Quote: Rider
    you just forgot that missile carriers are being collected in Russia, and Kazakhstan cannot be reached there.

    Why not in Ukraine? And will Kazakhstan get a loan there? To get a part from the diamond fund?

    Quote: Rider
    and it would be more correct to call me a Kazakh "friend" since I have already announced my nationality.

    Well, horseradish radish is not sweeter

    Quote: Rider
    (quotation marks are required) since it’s hard to call us friends.

    shyndyқ
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 57
    +5
    Quote: atalef
    Exactly how much you are saddened by the difference between one-time payments and a pension

    yes, she does not upset me, I just eliminated your "inaccuracy" and clarified the object of the dispute
    Why not in Ukraine? And will Kazakhstan get a loan there? To get a part from the diamond fund?

    and Ukraine already has a thin gut to collect such missiles.
    pre-prosperous.
    and Kz and there’s no reason to get anywhere. And without him there’s enough mess.
    Well, horseradish radish is not sweeter

    not in the know - did not try
    shyndyқ

    Are you saying something in Japanese right now?

    oh something, you again got on the wrong tracks.
  • Basarev
    Basarev 23 November 2013 23: 23
    +2
    Personally, I believe that Kazakhstan should be aware that even American missiles fly on Russian engines. Only Russia conducts manned space flights. There is no development lost on the Buran - the rocket lifts more than one hundred tons, and Buran itself is not anyway - we are world leaders in the field of astronautics. The Kazakh successes against this background look simply ridiculous, and therefore I have the right to say - only Russia can Baikonurit - Kazakhstan can neither launch a rocket nor build it. Even the costs of maintaining the droma will not be pulled to Kazakhstan .A because Kazakhstan's claims to Russia regarding the Baikonur personally in my eyes do not look quite thorough.
  • 31231
    31231 24 November 2013 19: 03
    0
    These people are far from materiel. Use stamps. What can they discuss with them if they believe that Russia sold them and sells gas more than anyone else. Of course, they did not hear about the payment of transit through the territory of Nenko.
  • Kars
    Kars 23 November 2013 13: 25
    +6
    Quote: seasoned
    How much squandered is this our right, Russia and debts for the entire USSR

    your right. Here is an article similar to this one must be written.
    Quote: seasoned
    So do not "shaggy grandma"

    why? This same article was written for some reason. And komenty also smile at me.
    1. Rider
      Rider 23 November 2013 13: 44
      +4
      Quote: Kars
      for some reason they wrote this article. And komenty also smile at me.

      And how YOUR comments smile at me.
      especially when comparing the military budgets of the two countries.
      1. Kars
        Kars 23 November 2013 13: 53
        +2
        Quote: Rider
        And how YOUR comments smile at me.

        Why?

        Quote: Rider
        especially when comparing the military budgets of the two countries.

        and what? yours is bigger, but along the way you steal even more. Yes, and besides you need it - you have a border with China. And we have with Romania.

        By the way, where did the world's largest submarine missile carriers go with such your military budget? And how many aircraft carriers remain?
        1. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 14: 22
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Why?

          because the same hl ... uh, funny as well as part of the comments from the Russian side (such as truncated and pretty little stars (which, however, is ALMOST true))
          Quote: Kars
          By the way, where did the world's largest submarine missile carriers go with such your military budget? And how many aircraft carriers remain?

          and for the sake of interest, you google how many of them are being built and launched into the water, as well as tests pass.
          nice (or NOT nice) be surprised.
          as for aircraft carriers,
          But in the defense strategy the role of aircraft carriers is laid?
          do they need vaabche Russia?
          they are for my purposes, and they did not design BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE.

          but you, dear appet, not only aircraft carriers, but also frigates are not expected (what can you brag about besides Sagaidachny?)
        2. Kars
          Kars 23 November 2013 14: 36
          +4
          Quote: Rider
          because the same hl ... uh funny as part of the comments from the Russian side

          Can I have my specific commentary and its analysis? From this topic? Well, what would everyone understand what you're talking about?
          Quote: Rider
          and for the sake of interest, you google how many of them are being built and are being launched,

          why google - the article immediately appears about any body movement.
          Quote: Rider
          as for aircraft carriers,
          But in the defense strategy the role of aircraft carriers is laid?

          Are you trying to jump? Where are the ships inherited from the USSR? And if there is no strategy laid down, why are Kuznetsov still tortured?
          Quote: Rider
          and here you, dear appet, not only aircraft carriers, but also frigates are not expected

          I’m not an appanet and all the more not my dear. I am treating you for nothing.
          As for frigates, there is no special need for them even in principle. Even cash is redundant.
        3. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 14: 50
          +3
          Quote: Kars
          Can I have my specific commentary and its analysis? From this topic? Well, what would everyone understand what you're talking about?

          Yes, a couple of your top comments, there in your Russia, too, a karachun comes, because well, her armed forces do not reach the USSR army
          Quote: Kars
          why google - about any body movement here immediately the article appears.

          you don’t want in vain, there are 2-3 pieces of nuclear missile carriers in the system.
          and I said it on the aircraft jackets - they don’t even plan them, because there is no need
          but give you the scale of the union.
          why blame it, because Russia is developing and expanding its armed forces.
          and your only cuts.
          but you don’t worry because you have no time to fight
          Quote: Kars
          I’m not an appanet and all the more not my dear. I am treating you for nothing.

          this, forgive me, a fad you have remained from the time of your fiasco in the topic of "betrayal of Ukraine by Russia, and supposedly defeat (ah, not defeat, but an unconvincing victory in the Balkan war)"?
          however, you have the complexes.
        4. Kars
          Kars 23 November 2013 15: 32
          +1
          Quote: Rider
          yes a couple of your top comments

          Specific and parsing. Or weak?
          Quote: Rider
          since well, its armed forces do not reach the USSR army

          And what do they reach? By the number of personnel? By the number of equipment?
          How many USSR was the Tu-160 and how many could save the Russian Federation?
          Quote: Rider
          you don’t want in vain, there are 2-3 pieces of nuclear missile carriers in the system.

          In year?
          Quote: Rider
          and on aviamatkah I said

          Where are the Soviet? What did the Russian Federation get from the USSR?
          Quote: Rider
          but give you the scale of the union.

          Well, Ukraine is blamed for the fact that the size of the army is not the same as that left from the USSR, and they sob sadly. And they themselves still have that circus.

          Quote: Rider
          and your only cuts.
          but you don’t worry because you have no time to fight
          I don’t worry, and I have long said that it should be reduced.

          Quote: Rider
          this, sorry, you have a little fad since your fiasco in the topic of "Russia betraying Ukraine
          Why are you trying to ascribe your fiasco to me? You don’t prove it here, but the fact that you remembered it is clear that until now this fiasco torments you and does not give up repentance.

          Quote: Rider
          I (ah, not defeat, but an unconvincing victory in the Balkan War) "?

          Not paralysis, but meaninglessness. Neither the Straits, nor the controlled Balkan countries.
          Quote: Rider
          however, you have the complexes.

          before yours still grow and grow.
        5. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 15: 54
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          Specific and parsing. Or weak?

          disassemble frank nonsense - fire
          Quote: Kars
          And what do they reach? By the number of personnel? By the number of equipment?

          I say again, it falls short, but for YOU (or rather Ukraine, and this can’t be seen as IMF loans)
          Quote: Kars
          Why are you trying to attribute your fiasco to me?

          I had no doubt that you would try to dodge.
          Quote: Kars
          Not paralysis, but meaninglessness.

          Well then, your independence is pointless, no money or a second hfrance.
          Ah ah ah.
          commonplace - yes ?!
        6. atalef
          atalef 23 November 2013 16: 00
          -3
          [quote = Rider] Quote: Kars
          Specific and parsing. Or weak?

          disassemble frank nonsense - fire [/ quote]
          [quote] [quote = Rider] Quote: then I wash my hands [/ quote]
          [quote] [quote = Rider] Quote: I asked to omit this topic, so as not to whip up an already tense "dialogue" [/ quote]

          Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.
          The standard answer is ordinary trololo.
          You need a Rider So, on my question on Baikonur, or so you will play in silence
        7. Kars
          Kars 23 November 2013 16: 09
          +1
          Quote: atalef

          Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.
          The standard answer is ordinary trololo.

          I know. But he doesn’t even pull on a trololo, so he’s a little talker.
        8. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 16: 11
          +6
          Quote: Kars
          I know. But he doesn’t even pull on a trololo, so he’s a little talker.


          this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.
          and all you can do is sting each other like you ... more.
        9. rolik2
          rolik2 23 November 2013 16: 23
          0
          Quote: Rider
          this "bastard" is driving you


          This is Kars to drive laughing and then the race has grown?
        10. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 16: 29
          +3
          Quote: rolik2
          This is Kars to drive laughing and the race is then grown?


          rest assured.

          more than once.

          Kars is he St. I go so formidable and indestructible, and inside - white and fluffy.

          he is simply embarrassed by my arguments.

          (do not be offended - both_

          today i'm on the beat.
          tomorrow is a day off, I can wrestle until morning.

          wink
      2. Kars
        Kars 23 November 2013 17: 20
        +1
        Quote: Rider
        this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.

        That everything was limited in this topic
        Quote: Rider
        disassemble frank nonsense - fire

        They would take and prove that they themselves do not rave)))
        Quote: Rider
        : then I wash my hands

        this maneuver is also frequent.
        And in fact, every time you fly, because you climb to a place where you don’t understand anything.
      3. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 17: 28
        +4
        Quote: Kars
        That everything was limited in this topic

        Well, why, quite successfully handle
        Quote: Kars
        They would take and prove that they themselves do not rave))

        and what to prove? that the army is declining after the reduction of the budget of Nenko herself?
        or what new technology does your army see at best, PIECE?
        mournfully say nothing about the state of the military-industrial complex
        minute of silence
        volley.
        Quote: Kars
        And in fact, every time you fly, because you climb to a place where you don’t understand anything.

        in fact, I DIPE YOU EVERY time in YOUR SAME errors and jambs.
        as in the topic about the "betrayal" of Russia.
        or how about "floating" (no one knows where) BTR 4.
      4. Kars
        Kars 23 November 2013 17: 33
        +1
        Quote: Rider
        Well, why, quite successfully handle

        this is your auto-suggestion.
        Quote: Rider
        and what to prove? that the army is declining after the reduction of the budget of Nenko herself?

        and that the budget of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was reduced? and this is a pan-European trend of reducing armies. I don’t see anything special.
        Quote: Rider
        or what new technology does your army see at best, PIECE?
        m is also pretty good.
        Quote: Rider
        mournfully say nothing about the state of the military-industrial complex
        minute of silence
        in vain, in vain. Could google.

        Quote: Rider
        in fact I EVERY time you dunk in YOUR SAME errors and jambs

        Well, show it? Don’t hesitate? Don’t be scornful. My quote, and your bogging down the context of my comment.
        Quote: Rider
        as in the topic about the "betrayal" of Russia.

        I don’t remember, but since you remember it means that there you brutally received from me.
        Quote: Rider
        or how about "floating" (no one knows where) BTR 4.

        and? did you receive an official statement by the Iraqi side? about the termination of the contract and the reasons?
      5. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 17: 47
        +3
        Quote: Kars
        this is your auto-suggestion.

        yes no it's a fact
        Quote: Kars
        and that the budget of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was reduced? and this is a pan-European trend of reducing armies. I don’t see anything special.

        But the Russian is building up, and after that you will argue that in Russia everything is as bad as in Nenko?
        Quote: Kars
        m is also pretty good.

        it will be EXCELLENT otherwise it will only remain for junk ride
        Quote: Kars
        Well show it? Feel free to

        and who claimed that Russia betrayed Ukraine, to which I poked you with my nose, that it was an independent one that went over to the Poles immediately after signing the reunification agreement?
        and your armored personnel carriers 4 have already arrived, or are they still hanging out at sea?
        enlighten me, I have not been interested in this topic for a long time
        Quote: Kars
        and? did you receive an official statement by the Iraqi side? about the termination of the contract and the reasons?

        so hde betr?
      6. rolik2
        rolik2 23 November 2013 17: 54
        -4
        Quote: Rider
        But the Russian is building up


        Can you bring the numbers how much Russia got from the USSR and how much did it build up this potential ?? Or will you move tactfully again?
      7. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 18: 11
        0
        Quote: rolik2
        Can you bring the numbers how much Russia got from the USSR and how much did it build up this potential ?? Or will you move tactfully again?

        you will forgive, but you ask very stupid questions.
        if you didn’t know (well, maybe they hurt for a very long time)
        then after the collapse of the USSR in Russia were not the best of times to build up the army.
        but now financing, construction, and modernization are actively going on.


        think before you formulate the question.
      8. rolik2
        rolik2 23 November 2013 18: 20
        0
        But you cannot bring the numbers by how much the army has grown compared to what was inherited from the USSR. You start to shrink during the "hard-and-worse" times.
        In Ukraine, these are not the best of times and such a large army, in the absence of any external threats, is simply not needed. Is it something you can blame for?
      9. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 18: 36
        0
        Quote: rolik2
        But here you can’t bring figures in how much the army has increased compared to what you got from the USSR.

        video, I did consider you smarter than why you are slipping into an open Baltic directory.

        just think about what you are saying.
        WHY did the Russian army have to grow at the time of collapse and crisis?
        Now there is a process of restoration and updating.
        unlike Ukraine.
        Quote: rolik2
        In Ukraine, these are not the best of times and such a large army, in the absence of any external threats, is simply not needed.

        but tell WHEN it will be better (or at least it was?

        can you see some perspectives EXCEPT cuts and tones?

        Is there any hope that the patient is more likely alive than dead?

        The whole essence of our butts with Kars is that he is trying to prove that in Russia things are just as deplorable as in Nenko.
        that there is a frank and arrogant FALSE.

        and you decided to pretend to him.
      10. rolik2
        rolik2 23 November 2013 18: 44
        0
        I operate on the facts seen with my own eyes
        you are quoting to me the calculations of various "experts" with links to sites and your conjectures,
        assess the state of the country's armed forces from a distance of thousands of kilometers not quite correct
      11. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 18: 59
        0
        Quote: rolik2
        I operate on the facts seen with my own eyes

        can you voice them?
        Well, how much they put into service, launched into the water, lifted into the air.

        sold in the end.

        smash my "speculations" with murderous FACTS
        prove that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are at their best and will wipe their noses ... well, who doubt
  • Kars
    Kars 23 November 2013 20: 40
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    yes no it's a fact

    If you prove a fact, in theory it should be easy.
    Quote: Rider
    But the Russian is building up,

    And what? You better confirm your words about the reduction of military appropriations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
    Quote: Rider
    and after that, you will argue that in Russia everything is as bad as in Nenko?

    I argued this? Give a quote. I argued that the Russian Federation squandered more of the USSR’s inheritance than Ukraine. And let Russia take better countries for comparison with it - China, the USA. And you can still chastise Liechtenstein that there is no fifth-generation fighter.
    Quote: Rider
    it will be EXCELLENT otherwise it will only be left to drive on junk

    Well, many people ride. There Americans drive on old Abrams and nothing.
    Quote: Rider
    and who claimed that Russia betrayed Ukraine, to which I poked you with my nose, that it was an independent one that went over to the Poles immediately after signing the reunification agreement?

    betrayed betrayed nothing shy. and prove you have not proved anything.
    Quote: Rider
    and your armored personnel carriers 4 have already arrived, or are they still hanging out at sea?

    no idea.
    Quote: Rider
    so hde betr?
    how does this concern you?
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 21: 04
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    If you prove a fact, in theory it should be easy.

    And what? You better confirm your words about the reduction of military appropriations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.


    hello kars!
    did you read the article?
    in all the news.
    Ukraine - cuts, trims, closes.
    show at least something
    Quote: Kars
    I argued that the Russian Federation squandered more of the legacy of the USSR than Ukraine.

    and forgot to mention that the Russian Armed Forces are recovering, and the budget is growing.
    Quote: Kars
    betrayed betrayed nothing shy.

    and there is really nothing to be ashamed of when they asked for protection, and then they betrayed Russia by participating in campaigns against Russia.
    Now I understand the worthy predecessors of Mazepa and Bandera.

    you should be proud of them.
    Quote: Kars
    no idea.
    Quote: Rider
    so hde betr?
    how does this concern you?

    Well, soooo !?
    But what about the restoration and pride of an independent military-industrial complex?
    you can at least one recent positive example can lead 7
    otherwise it seems that the patient is more likely dead than alive.
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 10
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    Kars, this is his standard answer. when you start using facts or talking about something specific.

    FACTS? !!!
    where did you see FACTS in your posts?
    it's me - YOU dunk in your own awkward examples and sent

    and on Baikonur I already answered.

    I just don’t keep up with you all.

    in queue

    in queue
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 16: 21
    -2
    Quote: Rider
    and on Baikonur I already answered.

    Where?
    Quote: Rider
    this "bastard" drives you into the tail and into the mane.
    and all you can do is sting each other like you ... more.

    du ... dumka richer laughing
  • Rider
    Rider 23 November 2013 16: 30
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    Where?

    above
    Quote: atalef
    du ... dumka richer

    just do not need their own complexes.
  • wk-083
    wk-083 23 November 2013 23: 50
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    As for frigates, there is no special need for them even in principle. Even cash is redundant.

    Excuse me, how many excess frigates do you have?
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 00: 01
    +3
    Quote: wk-083

    Excuse me, how many excess frigates do you have?

    ADYN, SAVSEM ADYN.
    The flagship of the independent fleet Getman Sahaidachny.

    somehow it went wrong with the rest, first the second sistership, they were preparing for the descent for 10 years, then for 12, now, it seems, they extended to 14.

    but if Kars says - superfluous, then superfluous.

    the glorious Cossack traditions will be revived, they will guard the coast on seagulls.

    Basurman trembling - more Cossacks went camping.

    all this is sad, I somehow asked him about the state of Nikolaev shipyards, and in response - silence.

    everything is sad ... uh, it seems I already said that.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 10: 23
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    the glorious Cossack traditions will be revived, they will guard the coast on seagulls.

    do you think frigates for coastal defense?)))) Well, everything is clear with you.
    Quote: Rider
    all this is sad, I somehow asked him about the state of Nikolaev shipyards, and in response - silence.

    I have? What do I have to do with it? I in Nikolaev even sometimes visit shipyards I have no relations. And there are still - while the military shipyards of Great Britain are closing.
    so that everything in the world is relative. but you will become accused of blaming Ukraine for not building aircraft carriers for itself.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 13: 07
    0
    Quote: Kars
    do you think frigates for coastal defense?)))) Well, everything is clear with you

    Yes to me, in principle, no matter why these boxes are intended.
    but here’s a colleague wk-083 gave YOUR quote in which you declare YOUR ships redundant. here I’m priklolo, as the ONLY and even the FLAGMAN frigate can be EXTRA.

    However, here I agree with you, Ukraine will soon and the army will be superfluous.
    will cost cops and explosives.

    and in the shipyards, I asked you in connection with the continuation of the construction of a series of frigates.

    but since this ONE AND ONE-ONE is redundant, then ...

    and aircraft carriers and Russia are not needed

    but this is my purely ground opinion.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 14: 00
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    Yes to me, in principle, no matter why these boxes are intended.

    it’s you so your incompetence in the simple matters of the fleet. What are you doing on Military Review?
    Quote: Rider
    here I’m priklolo, as the ONLY and even the FLAGMAN frigate can be EXTRA.

    and what’s the flagship? this is not a design feature. Without Sagaidachnogo you can do it. Better is a couple of good patrol boats to protect the economic space from poachers and smugglers.
    Quote: Rider
    However, here I agree with you, Ukraine will soon and the army will be superfluous.
    will cost cops and explosives.

    It is already 22 years old has come, everything will not come.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 14: 18
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    it's you so your incompetence in simple matters of the fleet

    I'm not naval - I'm forgiven.
    and YOU must admit that the NAVIGATION FLAGMAN IS NOT NECESSARY; it is to sign the insolvency of both the Ukrainian Navy and the state itself
    Quote: Kars
    It is already 22 years old has come, everything will not come.

    Well, the wait is not long.
    you have a situation: from - normal to bad, from bad to worse, from worst to default.

    if you don’t give an IMF loan or Russia, what will you pay salaries and pensions for?
    how much have your gold reserves declined there?

    here it’s not like frigates, here tugs will soon become a joke.

    seagulls is your fso
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 14: 40
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    I'm not naval - I'm forgiven.

    not to know basic things is not attractive on the Military Review resource.
    Quote: Rider
    and YOU must admit that the NAVIGATION FLAGMAN IS NOT NEEDED
    why are you clinging to this flagship? and the sagaidachny is basically not needed. unless to send pirates to hell
    Quote: Rider
    it is to sign the insolvency of both the Ukrainian Navy and the state itself

    But is solvency measured by frigates or destroyers?
    You would bring a logical chain of your thoughts in order to prove consistency, not consistency.
    Quote: Rider
    Well, the wait is not long.
    you have a situation: from - normal to bad, from bad to worse, from worst to default.
    Does it make you happy? And do not lie - from bad to normal, then worsened, then improved a little. Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good.

    Quote: Rider
    if you don’t give an IMF loan or Russia, what will you pay salaries and pensions for?
    how much have your gold reserves declined there?
    The same as now, despite the fact that Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF for a long time. Yes, and from Russia - the last ones related to gas, injection, etc.


    Quote: Rider
    here it’s not like frigates, here tugs will soon become a joke.

    How happy this prospect is for you, I’m looking, you’re already a coward. But you won’t wait.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 15: 10
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    not know basic things is not fascinating

    I am a dry traveler, it is fascinating to me.
    besides, I already told you, I PRINCIPLE do not care where your pelvis floats.
    but it’s inexcusable to merge YOUR flagship and consider it unnecessary
    Quote: Kars
    But is solvency measured by frigates or destroyers?

    with what ?
    why do you need a fleet?
    however, if Ukraine does NOT claim the title of a Black Sea power, then you are right; you do not need a fleet.
    with which I congratulate you.
    Quote: Kars
    Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good.

    It would be nice to bring statistics.
    and then the population is declining, incomes are falling, gold and foreign currency reserves - similarly.
    so what remains?
    loans and debts your FSE?
    Well, of course, the pipe
    (and FULL PIPE)
    Quote: Kars
    despite the fact that Ukraine has not received loans from the IMF for a long time.

    but really wants to, and the only one who helped you is Russia again.
    Quote: Kars
    How happy this prospect is for you, I’m looking, you’re already a coward. But you won’t wait.

    Yes, what am I doing here?
    why is it I have to be cowardly when YOUR country is falling apart
    Well, what about you do not wait, there is a curious material.

    in connection with the postponement of Ukraine’s accession to the EU, one of your towns decided to do it on their own.
    Ukrainian city decided to independently join the EU

    http://oko-planet.su/politik/newsday/220202-ukrainskiy-gorod-reshil-samostoyatel

    no-vstupit-v-es.html


    Kiev no longer steers?
    the beginning of the collapse?

    your country, you worry about it.

    I’ll just stock up on popcorn, but I’ll occasionally tease you
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 15: 24
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    I am a dry traveler, it is fascinating to me.

    You hike just nobody.
    Quote: Rider
    besides, I already told you, I PRINCIPLE do not care where your pelvis floats.

    you don’t worry, but you’re starting to write like me, and this is my trick)) and if you don’t care, then write something?
    Quote: Rider
    but it’s inexcusable to merge YOUR flagship and consider it unnecessary

    You know that the flagship is not a specific ship? And it can be assigned? You’re no land marshal, you can’t catch up.
    Quote: Rider
    with what ?
    Linear aircraft carriers))))

    Quote: Rider
    why do you need a fleet?
    to protect territorial waters and the economic zone.

    Quote: Rider
    however, if Ukraine does NOT claim the title of Black Sea Power, then you are right,

    What needs to be claimed for? Is the geographical position not enough?
    Quote: Rider
    It would be nice to bring statistics.

    I spoke for the military component, all the same, the Military Review website.
    Quote: Rider
    and then the population is declining, incomes are falling, gold and foreign currency reserves - similarly.
    Well, the Russian Federation is growing by emigrants and Muslims, incomes from someone are falling, from whom I am growing.
    what is gold reserves I can’t guess in your interpretation.

    Quote: Rider
    loans and debts your FSE?

    So they wrote as if the Russian Federation and the USA have no debts.
    Quote: Rider
    but really wants to, and the only one who helped you is Russia again.

    If we really wanted to, we would go to the IMF conditions. And many who helped helped, Russia has tried only for its transit and that’s all.
    Quote: Rider
    Yes, what does it have to do with it?
    So I think, maybe Ukraine offended you with something? Maybe someone beat you when you were in Ukraine?

    Quote: Rider
    Ukrainian city decided to independently join the EU

    And how are you? Have you already accepted it?
    Quote: Rider
    I’ll just stock up on popcorn, but I’ll occasionally tease you

    Are you like a fat clown? And jabbing is all that you can, and you don’t really get it. You disgrace yourself often and crap. And you could find what you’re doing, I’ve read a lot of information, I’d start to to understand, otherwise we’ll remain a fat overland nonsense, a shiver.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 15: 49
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    You hike just nobody.

    with insults, he begins to whom there is nothing more to say.
    and your trick is Baltalogy and idle talk.
    Quote: Kars
    Do you know that the flagship is not a specific ship?

    and how does that change what you think the frigate is NOT NECESSARY?
    and the flagship can really be anything.
    in the case of the Ukrainian Navy, a port tug.
    Quote: Kars
    what is gold reserves I can’t guess in your interpretation.
    So they wrote as if the Russian Federation and the USA have no debts.

    Gold and foreign exchange reserves - gold and foreign exchange reserves, which Ukraine is depleting just fill in the search for "Ukraine's gold and foreign exchange reserves have decreased" and your eyes will open (or maybe not)
    Quote: Kars
    And a lot of people helped,

    who else ?
    list these altruists.
    Quote: Kars
    And how are you? Have you already accepted it?

    it is necessary for YOU to be interested, it is YOUR country, in parts, joining somewhere, now in the EU, then in ...
    Quote: Kars

    Are you a fat clown? And to tease is all that you can, and it’s not very good

    and here is one more proof that when arguments end, insults begin.

    poor little kaaars.
    but how at all he puffed up at first, he considered himself cool.
    But it turned out to be just a freak and a boor.

    don’t get lost, I still want to laugh with you.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 16: 08
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    with insults, he begins to whom there is nothing more to say.

    It’s strange to hear this from constantly repeating oneself, I’m a hunter, I’m a hunter. And no one is on the campaign. Is this an insult?
    Quote: Rider
    and how does that change what you think the frigate is NOT NECESSARY?

    this deprives you of the pleasure of repeating yourself and writing a flagship, a flagship)) and a frigate is not needed, especially one. I would either sell it or trade it for more useful things.

    Quote: Rider
    in the case of the Ukrainian Navy, a port tug.

    if he is part of the Ukrainian Navy then why not,
    Quote: Rider
    go "and your eyes will open (or maybe not)

    about gold-foreign exchange reserves is not news for me. and I personally think that money should work and not lie in reserves. Yes, and gold is a pretty useless metal.
    Quote: Rider
    who else ?
    list these altruists.

    about one more moment of logical blunder and bias. if you were not a bolobol you should prove that the Russian Federation credited Ukraine in altruistic impulses and there are no altruists in the business - the list is long - ask who buys Ukrainian bonds.
    Quote: Rider
    it is necessary for YOU to be interested, it is YOUR country, in parts, joining somewhere, now in the EU, then in ...

    I’m not interested - since it’s impossible and inconsequential. It’s more interesting that in Kiev, on the Maidan, about 100 people have already gone for European integration.
    Quote: Rider
    and here is one more proof that when arguments end, insults begin.

    what other arguments? pok root and sitting is the way to obesity and you said so trite about it - a campaign is your constant pastime.
    Quote: Rider
    but how at all he puffed up at first, he considered himself cool.
    But it turned out to be just a freak and a boor

    If it was written by someone important, and not a fat one -Brakhunets, I would be upset.
    Quote: Rider
    don’t get lost, I still want to laugh with you.
    what are you leaving already?
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 16: 25
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    It’s strange to hear it from constantly repeating, I’m a hunter, I’m a hunter

    Yes, I'm a trapper, and you are a hollow
    Quote: Kars

    if he is part of the Ukrainian Navy then why not,

    right - the frigate is not needed, long live the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy tugboat No. 024.
    thanks kars - have fun laughing
    Quote: Kars
    about another moment of logical blunder and bias.

    First, give an example of assistance from other states.
    so I'm waiting
    who
    when
    how

    or balabol again?

    Kars burn more!
    Quote: Kars
    In Kiev, on the Maidan, about 100 people have already gone for European integration.

    yes glad for you, there are already Polish plumbers in Germany, and what is your niche?
    make ducks behind burghers?
    worthy of an autonomous power.
    Quote: Kars
    what other arguments?

    and really, what other arguments can you have?
    only insults and blah blah blah

    what's new commissioned in the navy - blah blah blah
    what's new in the air force - blah blah blah
    what's new adopted - blah blah blah
    hde swim ukropechene ... uh armored personnel carriers and again DRAIN.

    Are you a plumber by profession?
    Then you have a place in the European Union

    write ische, you amuse me.
  • sapran
    sapran 24 November 2013 16: 41
    0
    Sorry, but you are here Blah Blah Blah. or do you take lessons of trolling and Ukrainian-Europhobia? Outraged by your position.
    Open the "white book" there must be submitted information on the size and quality of the Armed Forces.
    Not only that, there are international guides like Jane to read there. in the end, your country also purchased a number of ATGMs. ... or is something wrong again?
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 16: 48
    +4
    Quote: sapran
    Sorry, but you are here. Blah Blah Blah

    peregrine falcon, I ask Kars to fling FOR HIS OWN WORDS.
    and if he is a man and not a hollow one, then let him do it.

    no one pulled his tongue.

    blurted out without thinking (because there is nothing) - let him answer.

    but all that I hear is insults, and the sound of water being drained.

    and trolling lessons, I give.
    but ALL my opponents pass me exams.

    and as you can see - in dad.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 17: 00
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    no one pulled his tongue.

    blurted out without thinking (because there is nothing) - let him answer


    what exactly? where I didn’t answer for my words? you’re inventing a master, so I’m waiting for a quote of what I said.
    Quote: Rider
    and trolling lessons, I give.
    but ALL my opponents pass me exams.

    train on you
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 17: 11
    0
    Quote: Kars
    what exactly? where I did not answer for my words?

    how many new ships came in with troy,
    how many planes, tanks.
    who and how much helped Ukraine
    what indicators are IMPROVED compared to 90s

    that's all.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 17: 24
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    that's all.

    And I understand you're stupid))) Where is the May quote here? These are your wishes

    Quote: Kars
    And do not lie - from bad to normal, then it got worse, then it improved a bit. Compared to what was in the 90s, now everything is pretty good

    Here is my quote, and it is clear to any person that squabbles in the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now better than in the 90s, when there were elementary problems with food, but you couldn’t remember about fuel and exercises)))

    Quote: Rider
    who and how much helped Ukraine

    Quote: Kars
    about one more moment of logical blunder and bias. if you were not a bolobol you should prove that the Russian Federation credited Ukraine in altruistic impulses and there are no altruists in the business - the list is long - ask who buys Ukrainian bonds.

    What do you not understand here? Do you know what ablations are? The loan was from China
    Quote: Rider
    what indicators are IMPROVED compared to 90s

    Yes, even a raid pilots. The number of exits to the sea of ​​ships. The number of exercises.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 17: 33
    +3
    Ale Kars, I asked to answer questions, and not to telepath with my tongue.

    I repeat for the near and especially gifted

    HOW MANY NEW SHIPS ARE INTRODUCED TO THE Navy OF Ukraine?

    how many new planes

    how many tanks

    where are the armored personnel carriers

    who and how helped Ukraine (except Russia)?

    This is not the loan from China for which you leased him a piece of land?

    by how much did the pilots increase and ship access to the sea

    let's bring the FACTS.
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 17: 08
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    Yes, I am a hunter

    You are nobody, and you will come to terms with this.
    Quote: Rider
    right - the frigate is not needed, long live the flagship of the Ukrainian Navy tugboat No. 024.
    thanks kars - have fun

    What a distant and stupid person you are. A frigate is not needed. Tugs - we always have work, but you can make them flagships if you wish. And you can not do it. This is not a prerequisite.
    Quote: Rider
    yes glad for you, there are already Polish plumbers in Germany, and what is your niche?

    What yes is there. I look at you plumbers and ducks are interested. Is life evidently connected with this?
    Quote: Rider
    what's new commissioned in the navy - blah blah blah
    what's new in the air force - blah blah blah
    what's new adopted - blah blah blah
    hde swim ukropechene ... uh armored personnel carrier

    And why these questions then? In the context of the discussion?
    Did I undertake to answer them? This is despite the fact that I answered indirectly. For example, about armored personnel carriers - how much time has passed and there is no official Iraqi statement. Which in itself is strange if armored personnel carriers are not air-conditioned and the Iraqis have nothing to do with it.
    Quote: Rider
    Are you a plumber by profession?
    Then you have a place in the European Union
    By chance, no. And I can leave for the European Union at any time, I would have a desire. Like Switzerland, Israel and Australia.
    Quote: Rider
    write ische, you amuse me.
    I’ll definitely write, you don’t slap the main thing from the fun monitor.
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 17: 19
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    You are nobody, and you will come to terms with this.

    you yap and balabol, and you just confirmed it with your insults.
    Quote: Kars
    The frigate is not needed. The tugs - we always have work, but you can make them flagships if you wish.

    Long live the aircraft carrier towing fleet of Ukraine
    Kars - you're a clown, and I'm funny with you.
    Quote: Kars
    What yes there is

    as I said - ducks are toilet bowls.
    Quote: Kars
    And why these questions then? In the context of the discussion?

    to the fact that you bleated like in Russia no better than yours, that the army is not like that of the USSR
    only now in the Russian Federation are introducing new weapons and you?

    and in response - silence
    Kars as always - merged
    Quote: Kars
    By chance, no. And I can leave for the European Union at any time, I would have a desire. Like Switzerland, Israel and Australia.

    here one more Internet abramovich drew
    and on the site every day you sit in between the bill of millions?

    once again - the Baltun

    so will you answer, or as usual telepathy language?
  • Kars
    Kars 24 November 2013 17: 32
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    We are yap and balabol, and I just confirmed it with my insults.

    How is this interconnected? I just said the truth about you. And since it hurt you so much, it’s hit the nail on the head.
    Quote: Rider
    Long live the aircraft carrier towing fleet of Ukraine
    Kars - you're a clown, and I'm funny with you.

    Have you made up your mind? Why are you laughing with your stupor? By the way, the tugboat looked at you. What is a tugboat a useless ship?
    Quote: Rider
    to the fact that you bleated as in Russia is not better than yours
    Can I quote?

    Quote: Rider
    the army is not like the USSR
    only now in the Russian Federation are introducing new weapons and you?
    and where do we come from? The Russian Federation squandered more Soviet power than Ukraine, and what it introduces there is laughter. For the state, it claims to be something like the Russian Federation


    Quote: Rider
    here one more Internet abramovich drew
    where did you get it? That only Billionaires can leave Russia? There are no such problems from Ukraine, especially when there are relatives and friends in these countries.

    Quote: Rider
    so will you answer, or as usual telepathy language?

    I already answered. But you have not proved why I should answer, and how does this relate to the topic?
  • Rider
    Rider 24 November 2013 17: 35
    0
    I will answer below
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 23 November 2013 11: 15
    +6
    Where did the continuous radar field and the powerful network of airfields go, where are the atomic submarines?

    And in what range should the field be?
    where are the atomic submarines?

    They are on combat duty. New under construction. Slowly yes but under construction. Moreover, from the USSR there were so many heterogeneous submarines that read the land.
    where almost all the same 50 tanks

    What T-54-55-62? In the 90th year, we still had IS-2-3 T-10 if Che. Where do we need it.

    And yes, in aviation heaped even more than with a BTV. with one exception, the Su-17 and MiG-27 can be against the wall. And in Chechnya it was not the IBA that had to work, but the front-line aviation.
    1. servant.
      servant. 23 November 2013 13: 14
      +2
      But for the Su-17 and MiG-27 respectable marshals who are now giving an interview and shouting that Serdyukov ruined the aircraft, it would be necessary to ask whose order was fulfilled !!!!
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 24 November 2013 10: 49
        0
        And the truth - such a cool fighter-bomber as the MiG-27 was completely in vain excluded
    2. Kars
      Kars 23 November 2013 15: 36
      +1
      Quote: leon-iv
      And in what range should the field be?

      continuous)))))) and what is this for the manner of quoting without a name?

      Quote: leon-iv
      Carry combat duty

      the USSR smetsa over these combat duty and intensity.
      Quote: leon-iv
      Moreover, from the USSR there were so many heterogeneous submarines that read the land.

      So you also finish building the USSR
      Quote: leon-iv
      What T-54-55-62? In the 90th year, we still had IS-2-3 T-10 if Che. Where do we need it.

      And these are my problems? The USSR was needed, and you shamefully merge. And when Ukraine writes off or sells surplus armored vehicles, you cry about the loss of combat capability. Yes, and the great RF replaced by how many hundreds of tens of thousands of those written off?
      Quote: leon-iv
      . And in Chechnya it was not the IBA that had to work, but the front-line aviation.

      And this is generally a disgrace, the Soviet Union did not fight like that after the civil war.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 November 2013 15: 51
    +2
    Well, let's write such an article, only how will it help Ukraine, where weakening is ten times greater and no change is expected, while the Russian army is now on the rise?
    1. Kars
      Kars 23 November 2013 16: 08
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      Well, let's write such an article, only how it will help Ukraine, r

      ???????
      Do you think that this article is something to someone (except for those who like to sympathize with Ukraine for citizens of neighboring countries)
      Quote: EvilLion
      while the Russian army is on the rise?
      Let the Chinese think about it, well, Russian taxpayers.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 23 November 2013 17: 47
        +3
        What do you want to prove to me? That in the Russian Federation is still collapsed? However, the Russian Federation has received about 500 new T-90s for all the time, and, most likely, it will still receive when the noise around the "Armata" subsides, and there will be no particular result, since it cannot be obtained in such a short time, successfully conducts replacement and modernization of armored vehicles, and hundreds and thousands, even if it goes through all sorts of T-72B3. What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?
        The Russian Air Force received or will receive under firm contracts, but in fact they can be concluded:
        1) 108 modern Su-30СМ and Su-35 fighters. Term 2015.
        2) 20 Su-30М2, apparently to replace the Su-27UB and 12 Su-27СМ3 (cars from the Chinese backlog)
        3) 124 Su-34 to 2020, the first 2 squadrons are already on alert.
        4) 60-70 Mi-28Н, 140 Ka-52, 49 Mi-35.
        5) 65 Yak-130.
        Repair and modernization like 55 machines under the Su-27СМ program, or I don’t think of any MiG-31BN, plus a bunch of transporters.
        Ukraine? 0.0 new aircraft.

        What else to continue? Tired of your tale that since you have a madhouse in Ukraine, then in Russia it is supposedly even worse. Shchaz. Not everything is perfect here, but the Limitrof will never live better than the Empire.
        1. rolik2
          rolik2 23 November 2013 17: 59
          0
          Quote: EvilLion
          What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?

          You are a little bit in size. Ukraine is 20 times smaller and according to your words it has delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

          No need for fairy tales about the plight of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (how do you know where you live, where?)
          Yes, there is little new, but Russia is in no hurry to buy the T-90 for some reason, it will upgrade the old T-72.
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 17
            +5
            Quote: rolik2
            Ukraine is 20 times smaller, and according to your words, it delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

            but let's compare the territories suitable for living, or the population, or population density per sq. km. And it seems to you that if Russia is 20 times larger than Ukraine in terms of area, then the production potential is more than 20 times, and this is far from the case. IMHO
          2. rolik2
            rolik2 23 November 2013 19: 26
            -2
            Quote: maxvet
            let's compare habitable territories, or population, or population density per sq. km

            that is, you will not defend the uninhabited territory?
          3. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 30
            +4
            there is a difference between uninhabited and unsuitable for life, and even calculate the logistics-the average distance between Ukrainian cities and Russian (you can also talk about the northern delivery with all the consequences, but the Siberians will tell me better about this)
          4. Kars
            Kars 23 November 2013 20: 54
            +1
            Quote: maxvet
            there is a difference between uninhabited and uninhabitable,

            and natural resources like?
          5. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 21: 05
            +1
            in the count, but again, the population of Russia is not 20 times the population of Ukraine, while it’s practically impossible to live on very large areas — in the best case, just extract natural resources. You can compare the northern territories of Russia with Alaska and Canada — there I think this is same as in Russia (there’s just no China nearby, although you yourself remind about Kars of China) And in large territories except permafrost nothing was found
      2. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 19: 35
        +2
        Quote: rolik2
        that is, you will not defend the uninhabited territory?

        that is, the army is directly dependent on the number of people.
        and we will protect everything (although God will give it, we won’t have to)
  • maxvet
    maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 19
    +3
    Quote: rolik2
    You are a little bit in size. Ukraine is 20 times smaller and according to your words it has delivered 100 tanks to its troops, while Russia 500 does not notice the ratio of quantity to territory ??

    I will add, there was no war on the territory of Ukraine (and thank God)
  • maxvet
    maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 39
    +1
    Quote: rolik2
    . Ukraine is 20 times smaller and, according to your words, delivered 100 tanks to its troops and Russia 500

    and let's compare the size of Ukraine and the size of Thailand? (I mean the fact that there and there Ukrainian armored vehicles)
  • Sergey_K
    Sergey_K 24 November 2013 18: 27
    0
    Just a mess at a neighbor warms the soul of the Russian Svidomo worse than two bourgeois.
    We are the same in all countries like no one else - the main thing is that the neighbor should be worse.
  • Kars
    Kars 23 November 2013 20: 52
    +1
    Quote: EvilLion
    However, the Russian Federation for the whole time received about 500 new T-90s, and, most likely, will still receive

    And wrote off 30)) and China received more modern tanks.
    Quote: EvilLion
    What will Ukraine oppose? Less than 100 "bulats" and "oplots"?

    Why do we need it? We don’t pretend to be world leaders, we don’t have borders with dangerous countries. And we have much more military power than Romania.
    Quote: EvilLion
    Repair with modernization like 55 cars under the Su-27SM program

    And it will not reach the number of aircraft in the USSR.
    Quote: EvilLion
    Tired of your tale that since you have a madhouse in Ukraine, then in Russia it is supposedly even worse

    You are not just a madhouse, but complete stability.
    1. maxvet
      maxvet 23 November 2013 21: 09
      0
      Kars - the last bald fangs would be to face laughing
  • Basarev
    Basarev 23 November 2013 22: 30
    0
    Those Soviet tanks are already quite old, but we don’t finish them - we rivet Almaty and PAK FA, in the future - PAK DA and the newest carrying cruisers. The submarine fleet is developing a lot - Varshavyanki is being reconstructed, Boreas and Yaseni are being built. The situation is still far from ideal but we are still moving in the right direction
    1. alone
      alone 23 November 2013 22: 54
      +3
      Quote: Basarev
      Those Soviet tanks are already quite old, but we don’t finish them - we rivet Almaty and PAK FA,


      5 units of pack fa and armata that no one has seen so far Do you call riveting? Listen less to Rogozin and try to look into reality with your own eyes, not Rogozin and K
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 24 November 2013 10: 58
        0
        Rogozin’s words are more authoritative than Ear Matza’s speculation
  • sasska
    sasska 25 November 2013 00: 53
    +1
    How much of the Russian Federation squandered the wealth of the USSR.

    can you tell me, how much did Ukraine get from the former might of the Soviet Armed Forces, science and industry? and even more interesting, how much during the period of "independence" Ukraine was able (on its own!) to preserve and increase?

    old anecdote: "Ukrainian geologists have discovered an oil field on the territory of Ukraine.
    Oil production for the state was complicated by the high speed of transit oil trains from Russia to Europe. "
  • Pajamas
    Pajamas 26 November 2013 14: 32
    0
    Do you think that the tank and the nuclear submarine have the same resource and the possibility of modernization, why compare the nuclear submarines and tanks?
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 11: 06
    +4
    Quote: seasoned
    So far, enough to turn the USA and Europe into dust. It’s good that we have already stopped with the technique of 3 or 5 times destroying all life on the planet ...

    And why is this for Ukraine?
  • sasska
    sasska 25 November 2013 00: 31
    +2
    "older brother" will always help if "younger and pockmarked" stop shitting under the door.

    IMHO, no more
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 November 2013 15: 47
    +1
    There are no small and efficient armies.
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 15: 53
      +5
      Quote: EvilLion
      There are no small and efficient armies.

      It happens. Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 23 November 2013 17: 28
        +4
        What is it? Is it okay that in a big war the “maxims” and the shooter in general play a relatively small role in comparison with artillery, which, by the way, easily copes with “maxims”? And who do you think will win if the level of training and equipment of both opponents is the same? And nothing that regulations operate with the concept of troop density?
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 17: 56
          +1
          Quote: EvilLion
          And who do you think will win if the level of training and equipment of both opponents is the same?

          A commander who correctly operates with this very charter.
          As for automatic CO, then from it the greatest human losses.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 23 November 2013 21: 25
            -2
            The answer is incorrect, the army with the larger numbers will win.
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 November 2013 21: 48
              +2
              Quote: EvilLion
              more army will win

              Well, if as in the days of the Second World War. Almost all 37-39 professionals were arrested or shot, and the Germans were stopped in millions of lives and until they learned how to fight in order to rot the brown plague - of course.
          2. samoletil18
            samoletil18 24 November 2013 15: 43
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            As for automatic CO, then from it the greatest human losses

            The biggest losses from mortars, especially shell-shocked and wounded. This is me at the institute for military field surgery.
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 23 November 2013 18: 05
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism


        Since the appearance of "Maxim", the number of "Maxims" per km began to play a greater role. front. Sorry for the tautology. But God remained on the side of the one who has more battalions, this time battalions with "Maxims". And in general, compare strength и professionalism, This is an attempt to compare the speed of the passenger train with the number of pages in the book.
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 18: 13
          +1
          Quote: Hudo
          And in general, to compare the number and professionalism, this is an attempt to compare the speed of the passenger express train with the number of pages in the book.

          Once on trains means trains. It’s the same as whether you put a graduate of a technical school on Sapsan or a professional on a regular passenger electric locomotive. The first one will naturally reach faster, but the second time it may not lead. So it is here.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 23 November 2013 18: 35
            +2
            You perfectly understood what I mean. A larger army has wider opportunities for self-realization, opportunities to prove oneself, career (yes, every normal company commander does not want to sit in this position until gray temples), training, etc.
            For example, the crew of the submarine "Zaporozhye" has no one to learn from (unlike the submarine formation), there is no rotation of personnel, and so on. Well, at the end, "professionalism" is steadily tending to zero. In other types of troops, the same picture only with its own nuances, only the scale is different, and the negative is the same.
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 November 2013 18: 54
              +1
              Quote: Hudo
              . In other types of troops, the same picture only with its own nuances, only the scale is different, but the negative is the same.

              I won’t touch the submarine - it’s a sore subject, and besides, I’m not one of the swimmers. As for the land. It’s as if you don’t know that a large mass of people are sitting in their unit jumping from one landing to another. If you are lucky without a higher military, you can safely reach the underground or the major will rise. And Zhinka at hand and communication and you know your town and everyone knows you. There were approximately 100 lieutenants in my release. A third quit. Three people decided to master the Adjuncture or the Academy of the General Staff. On the 10th anniversary there were even captains. Temporal romance is long gone.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 23 November 2013 19: 03
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                As for the land. It’s as if you don’t know that a large mass of people are sitting in their unit jumping from one landing to another. If you are lucky without a higher military, you can safely reach the underground or the major will rise.

                So I tell you about the perniciousness of this. In one place it is dense, in another it is empty, therefore the absence of "Varangians" has undoubtedly disastrous consequences, especially in numerous, in comparison with other dry islands. - any swamp is famous only for rotten water.
      3. maxvet
        maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 42
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        It happens. Since the appearance of Maxim on the battlefield, numbers have played a lesser role before professionalism.

        probably this axiom works when one side has MaxIm and the other doesn't
        To all your questions
        we have one answer
        we have a machine gun
        you don't have it
        English folk war folklore
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 19: 53
          +1
          Quote: maxvet
          probably this axiom works when one side has MaxIm and the other doesn't

          In 1 MV everyone had and there they realized that they only lay people in vain when machine guns were on the flanks. But until the tank appeared, there was no other alternative to infantry attacks.
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 42
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            In 1 MV everyone had and there they realized that they only lay people sp

            and what year did they understand? According to the actions of all parties, it seems like they didn’t understand it (it’s not just about machine guns, but also about quick-firing artillery, magazine rifles, etc.)
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 23 November 2013 21: 27
            0
            Nonsense, artillery cleaned everything up, the tank only increased the speed of the operation, the PMV positional dead ends, this is when the artillery hits for a week and during that time reinforcements are brought up.
        2. Kars
          Kars 23 November 2013 20: 57
          +1
          Quote: maxvet
          English folk war folklore

          We have a clear answer to any of your questions: we have a machine gun, but you don’t have one. Rudyard Kipling.
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 21: 12
            0
            Quote: Kars

            We have a clear answer to any of your questions: we have a machine gun, but you don’t have one. Rudyard Kipling.

            I see I read in another translation, and there the author was not indicated, but I will take into account hi
    2. alone
      alone 23 November 2013 22: 34
      0
      Quote: EvilLion
      There are no small and efficient armies.


      It happens and it happens. A large number is not a guarantee of victory.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 24 November 2013 11: 06
        0
        Therefore, probably, the operation Eagle Claw ended in a humiliating failure
    3. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 24 November 2013 18: 31
      -1
      Remind Finnish?
  • Corsair
    Corsair 23 November 2013 21: 55
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    Nuclear submarines also got all of the Russian Federation.

    And who else could they get?
    With a certain amount of irony, of course, one can imagine a "picture" of the presence of multipurpose and strategic nuclear submarines in the Caspian Sea near Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, as well as in the Black Sea near Georgia and Ukraine ...
    But for this you need to have more! "TU"fantasy.
    It is logical that the most complicated structure of the Soviet Navy remained THERE,WHERE and there were conditions for its operation and subsequent disposal.

    Caesar's Caesarean ...
    1. Kars
      Kars 23 November 2013 22: 01
      +1
      Quote: Corsair
      Caesar's Caesarean ...

      Then do not feel sick about the Tu-160 and the aircraft carrier with the Cruiser. As the map lay down.

      And I would not give up Pike B in the Black Sea.
      But with what, for example, did Kazakhstan compensate for the nuclear submarines? Or did Kazakhstan do not contribute to the construction? Or Belarus?
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 23 November 2013 22: 38
        +3
        Quote: Kars
        Then do not feel sick about the Tu-160 and the aircraft carrier with the Cruiser. As the map lay down.

        And I would not give up Pike B in the Black Sea.

        American map? Do you mean the process of destruction by Ukraine of the latest aircraft of the USSR Air Force for American money and in the same interests?
        Here, for sure: "And he himself is not GAM, and I WILL NOT GIVE to another"

        Ukraine cannot "fit" the ex- "Admiral Lobov" (present "Ukraine") into the format of the Ukrainian Navy.
        And what about the nuclear submarine fleet ...

        For statements like these you need a solid idea of ​​what INFRASTRUCTURE is for ensuring the combat effectiveness and operation of nuclear submarines.

        I remember when I was still president L.D. Kuchma, regarding Ukraine's capabilities in maintaining strategic nuclear weapons and means of their delivery, said: "As a person who has worked in this area for a long time, I RESPONSIBLY DECLARE that Ukraine does not have the ability to maintain nuclear weapons." ...

        But nuclear submarines, even multi-purpose ones, you know, will probably be more difficult to operate.

        And in addition, Ukraine conducted research on the operating conditions of nuclear power plants in the environment of hydrogen sulfide depths of the Black Sea, its temperature regimes?

        And about the "compensation." Do you want (or wanted) the process of "divorce" of the republics of the former USSR to stretch over many decades and be accompanied by dramatic events?

        Let's agree: NO ONE NEEDS ANYTHING (from the property of the USSR).
        Stop dragging the same "skeleton out of the closet" ...
        1. Kars
          Kars 24 November 2013 10: 32
          +1
          Quote: Corsair
          American map?

          Russian stupidity and greed.

          Quote: Corsair
          Ukraine the latest aircraft of the USSR Air Force for American money and in the same interests?

          According to the doctrine and international treaties, such planes cannot be kept in Ukraine, spare parts remained in the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation refused to buy them, so it was only a plus that they at least earned something. Unfortunately, sale to third countries was impossible.
          Quote: Corsair
          Ukraine cannot "fit" the ex- "Admiral Lobov" (present "Ukraine") into the format of the Ukrainian Navy.
          And what about the nuclear submarine fleet ...

          Well, your limitations showed itself again - to compare the rather useless killer of aircraft carriers, without the ROCKETs that remained with the Russian Federation with a multipurpose torpedo submarine.

          Quote: Corsair
          As a person who has worked in this field for a long time, I RESPONSIBLY DECLARE - Ukraine does not have the ability to maintain nuclear weapons "...

          But do we contain nuclear reactors? Yes, and they could contain mine ICBMs for about 20-40 years. How did Yuzhmash stay on our territory. And a handful said that the international community, which did not want to expand the nuclear club, had sufficient leverage.
          Quote: Corsair
          Do you want (or wanted) the process of the "divorce" of the republics of the former USSR to stretch over many decades and be accompanied by dramatic events?

          And what could be excuses on the part of the Russian Federation against the background of greed? And it is quite possible that the legacy of the USSR would be divided honestly.
          Quote: Corsair
          Let's agree: NO ONE NEEDS ANYTHING (from the property of the USSR).
          In principle, I’m not against it, but for some reason the majority of Russian chauvinists think that everyone around should owe the RF.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 24 November 2013 12: 29
            -1
            Quote: Kars
            And mine ICBMs would be able to contain 20-40 years.

            All questions to Kuchma.
            I see an expert from you as ...
            1. Kars
              Kars 24 November 2013 12: 32
              +1
              Quote: Corsair
              All questions to Kuchma.
              I see an expert from you as ..

              I have no questions for Kuchma.
              And Ukraine could be able to contain mine ICBMs. The Russian Federation has not yet changed all the missiles delivered from the USSR. According to the Bch, the question is of course different. But I have no confidence.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 24 November 2013 12: 37
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                I have no questions for Kuchma.

                The Americans at that time had a very big question for Kuchma.
                Stay with Ukraine's nuclear weapons and ICBMs, will it not act in a unified manner, at the same time with the Russian Federation? At that time, the amers did not have confidence in this, therefore they decided to insure themselves, "brought" Ukraine to a nuclear-free status ...
                Quote: Kars
                Here I have no confidence.

                Everything is on the road: Not sure, don't scam!
              2. Kars
                Kars 24 November 2013 12: 50
                +1
                Quote: Corsair
                The Americans at that time had a very big question for Kuchma.

                And not only Americans. After all, there is 4 in the world a nuclear arsenal.
                Quote: Corsair
                Remain in Ukraine with nuclear weapons and ICBMs, will it not act in a single vein, along with the Russian Federation

                NDA you turn out to be even dumber than I thought. Did you still export the warheads to the Russian Federation? If necessary, the carriers would be taken out))) So you wrote nonsense, think of something else.
                Quote: Corsair
                Everything is on the road: Not sure, don't scam!

                So I have no confidence, and in Ukraine there were enough nuclear cheeks.

                Quote: alex13-61
                Quote: Kars
                Russian stupidity and greed.
                This is rudeness, dear.

                A statement of facts, and the truth. And you can perceive how you please, and your respect is not necessary to me9 this is so noted)
        2. alex13-61
          alex13-61 24 November 2013 12: 47
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          Russian stupidity and greed.

          This is rudeness, dear.
  • atalef
    atalef 23 November 2013 11: 04
    +6
    Quote: seasoned
    Andrey, here you are wrong. Russia has nuclear weapons left and here .. how many tanks, planes and ships were cut.

    Then why do the rest?
    And in my opinion, Ukraine is doing everything right. She does not pretend to be a world power. To threaten - no one is threatening her; why is it unknown with anyone to ruin money in an incomprehensible scribble with pussy? A small professional army, the rest are border guards and explosives --- quite enough. Absolutely reasonable answer to the challenges at the present stage. And grandmothers - as long as you don’t tack in the army - will always seem small. Until that happens. what happened to the USSR — exorbitant expenditures on armaments — is one of the main reasons for the collapse of the country. They themselves have been stolen by their weapons.
    1. experienced
      experienced 23 November 2013 11: 09
      +1
      Quote: atalef
      Then why do the rest?

      Plusanul and I think that you explained everything correctly hi
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 23 November 2013 11: 28
      +4
      Quote: atalef
      And in my opinion, Ukraine is doing everything right. She does not pretend to be a world power. To threaten - no one is threatening her; why is it unknown with anyone to ruin money in an incomprehensible scribble with pussy? A small professional army, the rest are border guards and explosives --- quite enough

      As the leader of the world proletariat said: "True in form, but in essence a mockery!"
      Of course, a measure is needed in any business. But, effective "a small professional army" is also very difficult and ... expensive. Russia has already faced this problem in full growth.
      And now there are no threats, tomorrow there are, and the infrastructure, mob. no resources. and you can't create them quickly. And society can be brought to such "tolerance" that military service will not be the duty of all real men, but the lot of specially hired "special heroes". Then write wasted.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 33
        +1
        Quote: Alekseev
        But, an effective "small professional army" is also very difficult and ... expensive. Russia has already faced this problem in full growth.

        And an urgent year is more expensive. As for mob reserves, they will always be + reservists also sign a contract.
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 23 November 2013 12: 49
          0
          Quote: Akim
          And an urgent year is more expensive.

          A year of urgency, at least at a military military school, it should be a year of training. But after either a stock or a contract.
          Quote: Akim
          As for mob reserves, they will always be + reservists also sign a contract.

          There will be some, but what kind of quantity and quality?
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 13: 00
            +1
            Quote: Alekseev
            but what kind of quantity and quality?

            Do you think those who have passed a year of urgency and called up after 10 years for training camps are a normal soldier?
            It was very funny when a 40-year-old "partisan" tries to slip through the gunner's hatch.
    3. Onyx
      Onyx 23 November 2013 18: 01
      0
      Quote: atalef
      Then why do the rest?

      And you read the doctrine of the use of nuclear weapons Rossi and understand why everything else.
      Quote: atalef
      Until that happens. what happened to the USSR — exorbitant expenditures on armaments — is one of the main reasons for the collapse of the country. They themselves have been stolen by their weapons.

      And here the costs of weapons and the collapse of the country. Countries do not break up due to high costs
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 23 November 2013 11: 05
    +3
    [quote = Kars] I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation. / quote]
    Who would doubt that! laughing
    Better than you, no one can sing "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise ...!",
    in relation to the realities of Ukrainian life, the army and the defense industry.
    Unlike the "broad" "paper-network" urya-patriots who love to promote dubious accomplishments during the "independence", most of the colleagues on this military-patriotic site do not hesitate to discuss the problems and even "ulcers" of the development of the Russian Armed Forces without reassuring themselves by that somewhere, they say, things are even worse! wassat
    Yes, and [quote = Kars] the former power [/ quote] was not request, like the Russian Federation, like Ukraine. The Soviet Union had.
    And, no matter how hard it is for you to admit it request Despite all the "filthiness", there are very significant shifts in increasing the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces and restoring the work of the military-industrial complex in the Russian Federation. Russia, nevertheless, needs a strong army and navy, in contrast to a number of countries that do not have "external" enemies. (But as for the internal ones, this is unlikely ...)
  • Akim
    Akim 23 November 2013 12: 20
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation

    Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!
    1. Far East
      Far East 23 November 2013 12: 58
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!

      Dear, AKIM! sho you are so fed up with Russia! hi
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 13: 16
        +4
        Quote: Far East
        Dear, AKIM! sho you are so fed up with Russia

        I AM? Yes, God forbid. I throw myself at all like that at the Poles and the French and the English speakers. Just, if you don’t know, ask. And r with frantic incomprehensible criticism rush forward all the more. And since Ukraine is bilingual, naturally most hang out on such sites. And even the Poles would be outraged that they say na Ukraine.
        1. Far East
          Far East 23 November 2013 14: 17
          +1
          Quote: Akim
          I AM? Yes, God forbid. I rush everyone like that

          I understood you! I just feel sorry for ALL of us! there was one PEOPLE! right now ..... even the words NO! hi
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 14: 26
            +2
            Quote: Far East
            there was one PEOPLE! right now ..... even the words NO!

            Was. But time is running out. It's too late to look for who is to blame. My "transitional" generation does not gravitate towards Russia, and those who were born already in independent Ukraine and even more so.
            1. Far East
              Far East 23 November 2013 14: 52
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              ... My "transitional" generation does not gravitate towards Russia, and those who were born already in independent Ukraine and even more so.

              and I was that year in Zhytomyr where I served! and sho then the normul treated me and the guys (children) of my co-workers communicated with the guys, and there’s NO affection whatsoever! everyone says sho government is! with us (you) hi
              1. Akim
                Akim 23 November 2013 15: 03
                +2
                Quote: Far East
                and not any kind of no affection!

                Many do not, including mine. But these are two different countries and Russia will never be my homeland a mixture of the USSR. Here is what you just need to understand.
                1. Far East
                  Far East 24 November 2013 11: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  But these are two different countries and Russia will never be my homeland a mixture of the USSR. Here is what you just need to understand.

                  dear, Akim! how to understand two different "countries" I would understand you if you were 15 years old! sorry nothing bad in your direction! my opinion: this is how you, thinking out loud, convey hatred of Russia! your younger citizens hi
                  1. sapran
                    sapran 24 November 2013 11: 53
                    0
                    Why HATE? what is the logic ?! if there is an elementary concept related to the HOMELAND? What principle, if not dreams, then against us !!!
                  2. Far East
                    Far East 24 November 2013 12: 02
                    0
                    read the posts: I apologize for what Motherland! 1000 years with a hook were together Homeland was one! and then some ..idor ruined. (your) sneak took power in his hands! and doesn’t want to let her go (power)
                    Quote: sapran
                    What principle, if not dreams, then against us !!!
                    with such thinking WE will go far! hi
                  3. sapran
                    sapran 24 November 2013 12: 17
                    0
                    I fully understand the people who lived well under the USSR, but here they seem to have lost their bearings. For them, this is probably a reason for a corkscrew and "blinking".
                    Me and my family somehow remember the USSR ... in general, better than in the 90s, but worse than today. Tell me why me and my family have the USSR? I saw other people, with a different mentality I saw where it is good and where it is even worse, where is wealth and where is poverty. I am not interested in the fables of the "hurray-patriots" of both countries with accusations of the bad life of their neighbors. Have your own hands and a head --- if you want to live - WORK ON IT !!! no one else will help you and your family in this!
                  4. Far East
                    Far East 24 November 2013 12: 53
                    0
                    Quote: sapran
                    I am not interested in the fables of the "hurray-patriots" of both countries with accusations of the bad life of their neighbors. Have your own hands and a head --- if you want to live - WORK ON IT !!! no one else will help you and your family in this!

                    my dear Ukrainians! how can you divide the non-divisible! just do not have to write, Shaw Ukrainian., was an independent state. how is KIEVSKAYA-RUSSIA! two in one: Akim are recruiting you Ross., politicians? I didn’t understand what kind of an advantage this is! hi
                  5. sapran
                    sapran 24 November 2013 13: 27
                    0
                    I can’t draw a fine line, but we are really a bit different. We left one font, but each went our own path.
                  6. Far East
                    Far East 24 November 2013 13: 34
                    0
                    Quote: sapran
                    We left one font, but each went our own path.

                    it's like: there were only parents! Divorced divided us. sister stayed with Mom brother with Dad! hi
                  7. servant.
                    servant. 24 November 2013 13: 38
                    0
                    An old friend is better than two new ones.....
                  8. sapran
                    sapran 24 November 2013 15: 55
                    0
                    This is the type of Czechs Slovaks Serbs Belarusians Russians and Ukrainians common Slavic root.
      2. Akim
        Akim 24 November 2013 12: 42
        +1
        Yeah
        Quote: Far East
        how to understand two different "countries"


        I had the homeland of the USSR. Born in Ukraine, lived in the Ukrainian SSR. The Soviet Union unfortunately did not. My Homeland was gone, but the land on which it grew remained. And I live in Ukraine. Why ask, should I give Russia an edge in politics?
        And absolutely no hatred

        You have your own fairy tale, we have our own (the housekeeper Kuzya).
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 23 November 2013 14: 01
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    Right now. You will come across critics on a Russian site about their army. Hold your pocket wider!

    And what, there has never been criticism of the Russian army and the state, and Putin on this site?
    Or only he who has ears hears? yes
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 14: 21
      +2
      Quote: Alekseev
      And what, there has never been a criticism of the Russian army and state,

      In the articles? did not see. Maybe I missed it. Here, Serdyukov was run many times.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 23 November 2013 15: 38
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    I am waiting for an article on what remains of the former power of the Russian Federation

    There is nothing to argue about, the first years after the collapse of the Soviet Socialist Republic are very similar. Armies degraded in both countries.
    But now the difference is huge. If Ukraine is happy to report on two of the repaired aircraft, then the supply of 10 new, only one brand to Russia, is already causing shouts: "Not enough." If the articles on VO tell you what the Ukrainian designers from the military-industrial complex have come up with, then the articles about the military-industrial complex of Russia are more like reports, what has been delivered and what else should be delivered. And so on for all types of weapons ...
    1. rolik2
      rolik2 23 November 2013 15: 44
      0
      Quote: Russ69
      But now the difference is huge.


      You know, it's funny to read the arguments about the Ukrainian army of a person who did not serve in it, who did not see everything from the inside, but who leads articles of dubious origin. Reading your reasoning about the fact that the Ukrainian army died, I want to ask "what am I serving in some other Ukrainian army ?? Why is everything different with us? And not how you write about that ??"
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 23 November 2013 20: 49
        +3
        [quote = rolik2] You know it’s funny to read the arguments about the Ukrainian army of a man who did not serve in it, who did not see everything from the inside [/ quote]
        What does the article have to do with it, there are many articles, both laudatory and critical. there are objective data on the arrival of new weapons, the number of exercises and other things.
        [/ quote] Reading your arguments about the fact that the Ukrainian army died [/ quote]
        I didn’t say a word that she died, I just said that her condition does not cause positive emotions.
        1. rolik2
          rolik2 23 November 2013 20: 58
          0
          Quote: Russ69
          there are objective data on the arrival of new weapons, the number of exercises and other things.


          Where do you get this data?
          Here, from November 1 to the end of the year, we plan to replace more than 500 satellite communication stations (I have accurate data on replacing 87 stations at 5 military units for unbelievers from Monday I can check out the start-up acts)

          Do you have such information ????? Not everything that is being done here falls on the pages of print media.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 23 November 2013 21: 32
            0
            Contracts for the supply of weapons and major exercises are not hiding now. That's when all this will be an absolute routine, at least motor transport, shooting, then it will be possible not to write in the news.
          2. Russ69
            Russ69 23 November 2013 22: 04
            0
            Quote: rolik2
            From November 1 to the end of the year, we plan to replace more than 500 satellite communication stations

            For God's sake, nothing wrong. Only new satellite stations give the result in a compartment with the re-equipment of everything else.
            1. rolik2
              rolik2 23 November 2013 22: 12
              +1
              And what do you know about the rest ??
              What will be published in the press ??
              More than a dozen mil. Dollars were spent on creating the communications system of our troops. at the moment, Russia does not have such a system in any kind of army, so it’s not correct to judge the development of troops by scribbles on the Internet.
              1. Russ69
                Russ69 23 November 2013 22: 30
                +1
                Quote: rolik2
                More than a dozen mil. Dollars were spent on creating the communications system of our troops. at the moment, Russia does not have such a system in any kind of army, so it’s not correct to judge the development of troops by scribbles on the Internet.

                Let’s not measure our pussy, whose connection is steeper ... The military-industrial complex of Russia and Ukraine is based on one school and there is no fundamental difference. I doubt that there will be many differences. And it enters the Russian army, enough. Plus new complexes are being tested.
                Despite the scribbles, I doubt that the supply of new weapons to the troops is so secret in Ukraine. With regards to expensive equipment, it is still heard about the repair and extension of service life. But this is not forever, it may continue ....
            2. Hudo
              Hudo 23 November 2013 22: 16
              0
              Quote: Russ69
              Only new satellite stations give the result in a compartment with the re-equipment of everything else.


              Whose satellites do these stations work with? Will it not turn out that in the case of the next O. Zmeiny or something else, which will appeal to the "disinterested" Euro-partners, nenka will swell the hair on the back of the neck, and this connection will be screwed to her right there. In order not to dare and look askance at the thieving Euro-homos who imagine themselves to be supermen.
              1. rolik2
                rolik2 23 November 2013 22: 36
                +1
                Quote: Hudo
                look askance at the thievish Euro-homos imagining themselves superhuman.

                You are not tired of carrying this nonsense ??
                Your MO announced a tender for the purchase of personal satellite telephones for its generals, and you play patriots here.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 November 2013 15: 49
    0
    Even half of the Soviet army of the Russian Federation would not have drawn, but, as it were, 1kk army with 140k population, this is quite decent, and 200k with 40k population, this is second class, but 70 will be, this is no longer an army after the fact.
    Amount of arms supplies will be considered?
  • Megatron
    Megatron 27 November 2013 20: 16
    0
    I don’t make any difference between Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians.
  • Old_kapitan
    Old_kapitan 23 November 2013 08: 40
    13
    As Zadornov said, the mosh of the Ukrainian army has long turned into its power ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 12: 37
      +3
      Quote: Old_Kapitan
      the mosh of the Ukrainian army has long turned into its power ..

      In fact, he said this about the Russian army, comparing it with the Soviet one. And he advised the West about the Ukrainian army that the exercises along with the Russian army should not be carried out (it will blow all the Baltic countries to hell. Cit.). For our armies have long been dangerous in exercises, and not in battle.
      1. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 23 November 2013 17: 07
        +1
        I remember. Only now, so to speak, about the Russian one - by, but about our own thing. Alas.
        1. Sergey_K
          Sergey_K 24 November 2013 18: 39
          -1
          Surprising scum wanting country under whose flag they go ...
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 23 November 2013 12: 55
      +9
      Quote: Old_Kapitan
      already turned into her power ...


      I would not prematurely bury the Ukrainian Armed Forces ... Ukrainians are excellent soldiers .... specialists ... about half of the officers in the USSR Armed Forces, by the way, were ..... and as for former power, this weapon was the property of Ukraine .. inherited from the USSR .... they wanted to sell ... sold ... to whom it was ... the weapons were in bulk .. and sold .. and the money went to the budget ... to the people .... they will decide tomorrow will sell bully ... it's time to put positive articles about Ukraine ... she has not joined the EU wassat
      1. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 23 November 2013 17: 08
        +1
        I'm not talking about l / s. I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.
        1. Kars
          Kars 23 November 2013 17: 17
          +1
          Quote: Old_Kapitan
          I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.

          And what are you missing? What are the neighbors actively adopting? 5-generation fighter? Armata?

          According to rumors, next year there will be +9 BM Bulatov, several more S-300s will be repaired.
        2. rolik2
          rolik2 23 November 2013 17: 24
          0
          Quote: Old_Kapitan
          I'm talking about technology - there is no new nicerta and is not expected.

          Who told you that ??
          Do you even serve or the next jacket builds himself a brave soldier Schweik ??
  • Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 23 November 2013 08: 47
    11
    As shown above, in any case, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to fight with Russia

    The very formulation of the question of the war between Russia and Ukraine is unacceptable and provocative. To whose mill are you pouring water, Mr. Khramchikhin?
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 23 November 2013 11: 17
      +2
      Classical warfare is not impossible. But peacekeeping missions are undeniably possible.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 39
        +2
        Quote: leon-iv
        But peacekeeping missions are undeniably possible.

        And who will you protect? New Americans Russian bottling.
        1. servant.
          servant. 23 November 2013 13: 17
          +3
          You will soon need to protect yourself from yourself ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 13: 32
            0
            Quote: serviceman.
            You will soon need to protect yourself from yourself ...

            Let it go. And what right do you have for this? Is there a UN mandate?
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv 23 November 2013 13: 47
              0
              And what is your right to that? Is there a UN mandate?

              Do you believe in these scribbles? Me not. Who is strong is right. It has always been and always will be
              1. Akim
                Akim 23 November 2013 14: 12
                +1
                Quote: leon-iv
                Who is strong is right

                And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?
                1. maxvet
                  maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 45
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?

                  I wouldn’t want to see such horror during my life stop
                  1. rolik2
                    rolik2 23 November 2013 19: 56
                    0
                    Quote: maxvet
                    Quote: Akim
                    And who said that you are stronger if you appear as an aggressor on Ukrainian soil?

                    I wouldn’t want to see such horror during my life stop

                    at least one adequate person on this site good
                  2. Akim
                    Akim 23 November 2013 19: 58
                    0
                    Quote: maxvet
                    during his life did not want to see such horror

                    Therefore, you don’t even have to think that you will come with a peacekeeping mission, without UN sanction.
                    1. maxvet
                      maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 45
                      0
                      Quote: Akim

                      Therefore, you don’t even have to think that you will come with a peacekeeping mission, without UN sanction.

                      I don’t want the reason for this at all, if only with the request of the Ukrainian government (whatever it is, and still no better)
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 23 November 2013 22: 56
                        -1
                        Quote: maxvet
                        was, if only with the request of the Ukrainian government (whatever it is-

                        Under the Constitution, the admission of foreign troops is permitted only by decision of the Supreme Council with the submission of the Government.
                    2. Oleg Kharkov
                      Oleg Kharkov 23 November 2013 23: 47
                      0
                      I would say that UN sanctions are not necessary either. Although of course, if of course 1917 taught us nothing, then everything is possible.
                  3. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 23 November 2013 21: 35
                    +2
                    Of course, the reunification of Russia must be bloodless.
                2. servant.
                  servant. 24 November 2013 07: 49
                  -1
                  Who needs you? You yourself either give us or in the geyropu you profuche!
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 24 November 2013 09: 15
                    0
                    Quote: serviceman.
                    You yourself either give us or in the geyropu you profuche!

                    Can't you iron the laces? 22 years already prophesy.
                    1. servant.
                      servant. 24 November 2013 09: 24
                      -1
                      No, you don’t need .... In the geyrop, you will need servants there and stroke ....
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 24 November 2013 09: 42
                        0
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        . In the geyrop, the lackeys will be needed there and you will stroke ....

                        Okay, so be it. But, everything will be fair. No divorce love. We will survive. Poland also filled the whole of Europe with its plumbers, and now they are coming back. Since you put an ultimatum "either-or", then I will choose the latter. I do not call your country "Ra..ka" out of respect for its people, you think that others are allowed to be rude. So you get the principle of denial.
                      2. servant.
                        servant. 24 November 2013 12: 39
                        0
                        At when I expressed disrespect for the people of Ukraine? For centuries, we have been one country and one people, and now we fight who is the coolest, but Russia without Ukraine will probably be harder more morally from the loss of what was originally Russia, maybe the Ukrainians will finally begin to live more satisfying having given sovereignty to the European Union maybe .... You personally choose Europe, but thank God you are not the whole of Ukraine!
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 24 November 2013 13: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        You personally choose Europe, but thank God you are not the whole of Ukraine!

                        I do not choose anything. I do not want either in the EU or the CU. That's just the servants of your citizens neither called names and never rushed to be the first to criticize Russia, although there are plenty of reasons for it in VO. Even on the topic of the Indian aircraft carrier. And in the subject I lunge into lunge. What is bad with us, we already know. Keep track of your litter.
                      4. servant.
                        servant. 24 November 2013 13: 06
                        +1
                        You yourself stuffed the laces to iron!
                      5. Akim
                        Akim 24 November 2013 13: 56
                        0
                        Quote: serviceman.
                        You yourself stuffed the laces to iron!

                        And this means a serf ?. Think miniscule and finely.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 23 November 2013 21: 34
    +1
    Russians from Galicians and Crimean Tatars. Everything goes to this.
  • core
    core 23 November 2013 12: 32
    +1
    but don’t say who could have thought 10 years ago that the Georgians would kill the Russian soldiers, but it happened. as they say from the sum and from prison, and here the topic is the same, today there is no enemy, and tomorrow the brother will betray.
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 13: 02
      +1
      Quote: core
      and don’t say who could have thought 10 years ago that Georgians would kill Russian soldiers,

      One could imagine 10 years ago. But in 1988, no. So far, Ukraine has no prerequisites to go armed aggression against anyone.
      1. Rider
        Rider 23 November 2013 13: 50
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        So far, Ukraine has no prerequisites to go armed aggression against anyone.

        because there is nothing.

        laughing
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 14: 13
          +1
          Quote: Rider
          because there is nothing.

          Because there is no point. The one who accumulates military force is only bad for invasion.
          1. Rider
            Rider 23 November 2013 14: 59
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            Because there is no point. The one who accumulates military force is only bad for invasion.


            maybe you are right.
            here it’s only someone from not the most stupid minds of antiquity said: people who do not want to feed their army will feed someone else's.

            good luck with joining the European Union
            wink
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 November 2013 15: 08
              +1
              Quote: Rider
              good luck with joining the European Union

              There is no television in Kazakhstan? No. So look at the Internet. Nobody is going anywhere. Yes, and did not go before, but planned to sign an association.
              PS As for feeding the army - I agree. The budget would like more.
  • Sibiryak
    Sibiryak 23 November 2013 08: 51
    +8
    Tovarisch the author usually scared the majority of his articles with a threat from the east, and now he switched to Ukraine, why would it suddenly! And in general, according to the article, what the author wanted to say, I still did not understand that the "Ukrainian" army is called an army only on paper, it has been known for a long time and it is very regrettable.
    1. core
      core 23 November 2013 12: 35
      +2
      the very title of the article is absurd "What is left of Ukraine's former military might." AUTHOR PROFESSIONAL HITCHCOCK, everyone and everything scares.
  • biglow
    biglow 23 November 2013 08: 58
    +9
    soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 23 November 2013 09: 25
      +7
      soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing
      waiting for Akima wassat
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 43
        +3
        Quote: Horst78
        waiting for Akima

        For a Banderlog, you can use the keyboard and receive it on the monitor. The APU is not all right. Not all, but do not bury ahead of time. Or is there not enough patience to wait? Otherwise, the forecasts of the "experts" do not come true.
        1. Horst78
          Horst78 23 November 2013 12: 59
          +1
          For banderlog you can use the keyboard and monitor.
          I'm waiting for the keyboard laughing and on account
          on the monitor will receive
          come to us in Siberia, there will be a keyboard and wreaths on an nameless grave crying
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 13: 21
            +4
            Quote: Horst78
            come to us in Siberia, there will be a keyboard and wreaths on an nameless grave

            The climate is not like. Let's get to our sea at summer. And on the last day, say that everything is here banderlog. Will be registered in the permanent silent inhabitants.
            Although you come - your opinion will change.
            1. Horst78
              Horst78 23 November 2013 15: 50
              +2
              Thanks for the invitation. I’ve been running into the sea so much in the USSR that I still don’t want it. I would be in the mountains good
              1. Akim
                Akim 23 November 2013 16: 00
                +4
                Quote: Horst78
                I’ve been running into the sea so much in the USSR

                Yes, quite a while ...
                Then in the Carpathians and you will see that there are not all Bendera, but a minority. And then we sat up without the sea. It’s like in a joke.
                -In summer, I’ll wash myself in the river
                -And what about in the winter?
                -What of that winter.
                1. Horst78
                  Horst78 23 November 2013 18: 17
                  +1
                  I want to go to Abkhazia, in 1987 I liked it there in the mountains. And at the expense of the Carpathians will need to think. By the way, do not know how in Tulchin and in the Vinnitsa region belong to Russian Khokhlov? Dad from Tulchin.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 23 November 2013 18: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Horst78
                    how do they treat Russian Khokhlov in Tulchin and in the Vinnitsa region? Dad from Tulchin

                    Yes, they are normal. You will not prove to them with the stubbornness of a ram animal that they live improperly. They themselves will say that they do not like in their lives.
                    1. Horst78
                      Horst78 23 November 2013 18: 34
                      +3
                      with the tenacity of a ram animal
                      offensively sad anyway laughing
        2. PiP
          PiP 23 November 2013 13: 37
          +2
          Akim, have a question ... The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”. Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 13: 51
            +4
            Quote: PiP
            . Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?

            I can’t say for everyone. There is generally no such mood. Here the high salaries of the Russian military have a slight envy. Not black - just like why aren't we? Compare officers of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol and their salaries, forgetting that they are large at Ukrainian prices.
          2. Rider
            Rider 23 November 2013 14: 00
            +4
            Quote: PiP
            Are there really such moods in the Armed Forces?

            I will express the opinion of one of my acquaintance Ukrainians with whom we actively corresponded several years ago.

            here are his words (not verbatim)
            the war between Ukraine and Russia (no matter who starts it) will be primarily a civil war inside Ukraine.
            Well, he VERY hoped that the Russian troops would NOT go to the West / West (it’s necessary to pull bandyuk out of caches), let them boil in their own juice.
            all the more so without subsidies from the east, they have only one way left - to work in Europe.
        3. biglow
          biglow 23 November 2013 13: 53
          +2
          Quote: Akim
          For a banderlog, you can use the keyboard and monitor

          I see such people every day, you’re brave Bandera and Nazis there in your lion, and you’re going to look for work in the south ... and you quickly remember the Russian language and again no one is offended by the words of Bandera workers .... laughing
          1. Akim
            Akim 23 November 2013 14: 16
            +4
            Quote: biglow
            you there in your lion brave Bandera and fascists praise

            Learn geography and do not wake the beast in me, especially the HARE.
            1. biglow
              biglow 23 November 2013 19: 01
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              Quote: biglow
              you there in your lion brave Bandera and fascists praise

              Learn geography and do not wake the beast in me, especially the HARE.

              what kind of Odessa are you from, Odessa region is the maximum ..., Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ...
              1. Akim
                Akim 23 November 2013 19: 07
                +1
                Quote: biglow
                , Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ..

                Did I say that the native Odessa? I will be in Odessa in the first generation, but then my son will be in the second. But certainly not a Lviv citizen. Although who previously thought this?
                1. biglow
                  biglow 23 November 2013 19: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: Akim
                  Quote: biglow
                  , Odessa is the one whose grandmother was born in Odessa ..

                  Did I say that the native Odessa? I will be in Odessa in the first generation, but then my son will be in the second. But certainly not a Lviv citizen. Although who previously thought this?

                  read above, your grandchildren will be from Odessa ... From Odessa, this saying went to your attention .. So be honest and call yourself a representative of the area in the province where you came from ....
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 23 November 2013 19: 41
                    0
                    Quote: biglow
                    read above, your grandchildren will be Odessa residents ...

                    Odessa is root and not root. The same definition of the third generation determines the spirit of Odessa and then conditionally. Do you think Zhvanetsky is an Odessa citizen? And by the way, his parents are newcomers.
                    Will treat me about Odessa! smile
                    1. biglow
                      biglow 24 November 2013 14: 15
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      Quote: biglow
                      read above, your grandchildren will be Odessa residents ...

                      Odessa is root and not root. The same definition of the third generation determines the spirit of Odessa and then conditionally. Do you think Zhvanetsky is an Odessa citizen? And by the way, his parents are newcomers.
                      Will treat me about Odessa! smile

                      go to the import, talk with the people and you will know everything ....
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 24 November 2013 15: 23
                        0
                        Quote: biglow
                        go to the import

                        When were you at Privoz last time? There are no inhabitants of Odessa. not behind the shelves, and among the buyers there are few of them. All mainly from the area. It's like Odessa Day people do not go on Deribasovskaya.
      2. maxvet
        maxvet 23 November 2013 19: 50
        +1
        Quote: Horst78
        soon the banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing we are waiting for Akima

        ha ha ha. Akima was recorded in banderlogs!
    2. Hudo
      Hudo 23 November 2013 10: 09
      +7
      Quote: biglow
      soon banderlogs will resort to minus, and to prove that everything is fine with the army in Ukraine .... laughing


      Anyone whose point of view does not coincide with the schizoid gloomy vision of the reality of banderlogs, they (banderlogs) are credited to the so-called hell ukroyiny (Ukrainian enemies). Then minus all comments heap, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.

      Ostap leaned toward the keyhole, put his hand to his mouth with a pipe and said clearly: “How much opium is for the people?” They were silent behind the door. - Dad, you are a vulgar man! shouted Ostap. At the same second, he jumped out of the keyhole and crawled minus from banderlog pencil "Faber", the point of which svidomit Father Fedor tried to sting the enemy. The concessionaire pulled back in time and grabbed the pencil. Enemies, separated by a door, silently began to draw a pencil towards themselves. Youth won, and the pencil, resting like a splinter, slowly crawled out of the well. With this trophy, Ostap returned to his room. The companions cheered even more. - And the enemy runs, runs, runs! - sang Ostap. On the edge of a pencil, he cut out an insulting word with a penknife, ran out into the corridor and, lowering the pencil into the keyhole, he immediately returned.
      laughing
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 23 November 2013 10: 26
        +5
        with a schizoid gloomy vision of reality
        lol not tolerant but true bully
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 23 November 2013 10: 49
          +4
          Quote: Horst78
          with a schizoid gloomy vision of reality
          lol not tolerant but true bully


          Which one there tolerance! Banderlog has only an outer shell that looks like a human, inside it is a zombie. In connection with the liquefaction of the brain, the ability to think logically is completely atrophied - if in the course of a discussion with them (Bander-natsyukas), the arguments of the koi go beyond the narrow Svidomo templates - "Fatal error" is displayed in the eyes of the Svidomo, after which from under the mask a murlop appears "superior race" with attendant symptoms - cave Russophobia, insults, and stupid threats.
          1. Horst78
            Horst78 23 November 2013 13: 01
            +1
            Banderlogs have impotence of logic and lack of brain. What to talk about with them? This will have to do a lobotomy of the brain so that it falls to their level of thinking
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 23 November 2013 18: 39
        +1
        Quote: Hudo
        After that all comments of the heap are minus, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.


        The first unfortunate "passed away". With your relief, Mr. Svidomo. laughing fool
      3. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 24 November 2013 20: 54
        +3
        Anyone whose point of view does not coincide with the schizoid gloomy vision of the reality of banderlogs, they (banderlogs) are credited to the so-called rushki rushki (Russian. Russia). After that all comments of the heap are minus, even if you post the multiplication table or the Pythagorean theorem.

        Ostap leaned over to the keyhole, put his hand to his mouth with a pipe and distinctly said: - How much is opium for the people? They were silent outside the door. - Daddy, you are a vulgar man! - shouted Ostap. At the same moment, a pencil "Faber" jumped out of the keyhole and fidgeted with a minus from the banderlog, with the tip of which Father Fyodor tried to sting the enemy. The concessionaire drew back in time and grabbed the pencil. The enemies, separated by the door, silently began to pull the pencil towards them. Youth won, and the pencil, resting like a splinter, slowly crawled out of the hole. With this trophy, Ostap returned to his room. The companions were even more amused. - And the enemy runs, runs, runs! sang Ostap. On the edge of a pencil he carved an insulting word with a penknife, ran out into the corridor and, dropping the pencil into the keyhole, immediately returned. laughing
  • kind
    kind 23 November 2013 09: 02
    +7
    The country and the army were brought by the "great" politicians and overseas "friends". It's a shame for ordinary Ukrainians, for so many years they have been deceiving them, along the way accusing Russia of all their sins.
  • Lesnik
    Lesnik 23 November 2013 09: 14
    +4
    The army is the main institution of the state. No army - no state. But in Ukraine it has long been gone. I will not hope to continue the logical chain, and so it’s clear negative
  • makarov
    makarov 23 November 2013 09: 27
    +3
    What is the topic ??? Surely the "elder brother" intends to throw something off the master's shoulder? So Janek, besides green money, will not accept anything else, he and the lads will not shove tanks and planes into banks (?)
    1. duke
      duke 23 November 2013 09: 44
      +7
      excerpt from the interview A.I. Fursova hi :
      - Listen, how do you feel if I say with non-political straightforwardness that corrupt elites, including Ukraine, are ready to sell all of Ukraine, if only to preserve themselves?
      AF - Yes, the fact is that they will not be preserved. When the Germans left Ukraine, they did not take the policemen. For some reason, Ukrainians do not learn the lessons of their policemen. They threw the policemen away, and the policemen only had to smear their boots with fat and run into the woods and pretend that they were fighting the Germans there. Someone happened, but someone did not. The fact is that the mistake of the Ukrainians, if the Ukrainians really think so, they repeat the mistake of the Soviet elite of the 80s: the Soviet elite of the 80s is stupid, well-fed, provincial believed that if they are now dismantling the Soviet Union, they will be put in one table with western elite.
      - Here she is, a secret dream.
      AF — The Western elite was not formed for more than 400 years to plant strangers (even Germans and French, by no means all, only aristocrats, not bourgeois), the Anglo-Saxon elite, held together by Jewish capital, was ready to sit at the table, and all the rest will be at the bucket.
    2. HAM
      HAM 23 November 2013 09: 54
      +2
      OU "elder brother" (USA) can only give a hell.
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich 23 November 2013 12: 15
        0
        Quote: HAM
        OU "elder brother" (USA) can only give a hell.

        Well this is unlikely! The Americans themselves horseradish last soon without salt grunt ...
    3. Revolver
      Revolver 23 November 2013 10: 13
      +1
      Quote: makarov
      So Yanek, except for the green money, will not accept anything else

      Will accept. By the cheek. The one who offers more greens. And for a lot of green and in the anus will take.
  • cocktail46
    cocktail46 23 November 2013 09: 29
    +5
    It would be interesting to read about the Russian army. What was, what is and what is expected in the near future.
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 23 November 2013 09: 43
    +2
    After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine received a magnificent army - three very strong military districts of the second strategic echelon and three air armies (not counting the powerful arsenal of strategic nuclear forces), the total number is about 800 thousand people. The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. By the number of tanks (more than 6100) and combat aircraft (more than 1100), Ukraine occupied the 4 place in the world after the United States, Russia and China.
    And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 23 November 2013 11: 03
      +4
      Quote: Maximus-22
      And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.

      That's how we are going to ....
      Until 2017, about 6,5 thousand lieutenants, majors and colonels will be reduced in the Ukrainian army. Of the hundreds of Ukrainian generals, one in five (20 people) will lose their jobs. Dismissals are part of the army reform program, which should become fully contracted by 2017.
      Each dismissed person will receive a one-time payment of 50% of the salary for each year of service. Those who have served in the army for ten or more years will be able to count on payment. That is, if a major received an average of 2 500 UAH per month, then after leaving his ten years of service, he can count on 12,5 thousand.
      Retired soldiers will be offered retraining. Over the course of several years, more than 21 thousand troops will pass this program. Abbreviations no longer concern combat units, but rear ones — warehouses, repair shops, etc., Vesti writes.
      xxxxx
      The main thing the Navy is not touched! laughing The submarine "Zaporozhets" will proudly sail the Ukrainian steppes!
      1. biglow
        biglow 23 November 2013 19: 13
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        Quote: Maximus-22
        And what kind of cones contain such a horde? Yes, and why? Who is Ukraine going to fight ??? With Russia or Moldova? It may be reasonable to subvert the army a little. To a reasonable extent, naturally. Yes, and earn some money at that.

        That's how we are going to ....
        Until 2017, about 6,5 thousand lieutenants, majors and colonels will be reduced in the Ukrainian army. Of the hundreds of Ukrainian generals, one in five (20 people) will lose their jobs. Dismissals are part of the army reform program, which should become fully contracted by 2017.
        Each dismissed person will receive a one-time payment of 50% of the salary for each year of service. Those who have served in the army for ten or more years will be able to count on payment. That is, if a major received an average of 2 500 UAH per month, then after leaving his ten years of service, he can count on 12,5 thousand.
        Retired soldiers will be offered retraining. Over the course of several years, more than 21 thousand troops will pass this program. Abbreviations no longer concern combat units, but rear ones — warehouses, repair shops, etc., Vesti writes.
        xxxxx
        The main thing the Navy is not touched! laughing The submarine "Zaporozhets" will proudly sail the Ukrainian steppes!

        so many diesel fuel of other resources are written off on this boat that they will keep it until it sinks at the pier ... in the Ukrainian fleet you can buy diesel fuel for a third of the price, the floor of Sevastopol uses such fuel ... nothing is sold from Russian bases. ...
      2. rolik2
        rolik2 23 November 2013 19: 17
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        Submarine "Zaporozhets"

        I would not be very ironic about this, have you already kicked the B-380 out of the dock, or will it swim with it?
  • qwert1707
    qwert1707 23 November 2013 09: 55
    +3
    Yes, everywhere now it is like this ... all "leaders and rulers" live according to the principle: Steal, sell, appropriate, fill your pocket and go abroad ... and after me at least the grass does not grow "
    They ruined the great country of the USSR, it remains to "finish and destroy" the remnants ...
  • Maximus-xnumx
    Maximus-xnumx 23 November 2013 10: 03
    +3
    Having noticed the negative feedback, I’m ready to correct myself a little. Ukraine is doing the right thing that it is getting rid of, but that’s why it does not develop and produce a new guide on its conscience. Maybe at the top they think that we’ll join NATO soon and still have to change all weapons in connection with the transition to the NATO standard. Maybe they think that Russia in trouble will not abandon what happens. In short, ICS knows what is really happening.
    P / S and why am I worried about the problems of the neighboring state? Maybe because they are the same as my native ???
  • SPACE
    SPACE 23 November 2013 10: 13
    +5
    Events in Ukraine resemble the effects of the virus. A virus is a microbiological substance that has program DNA or RNA code or a malicious program. The purpose of which is to penetrate into a healthy cell, to introduce and replace the cell DNA with its own DNA code. Subsequently, controlling the life-support systems of the cell for its own purposes, for example, the biophage uses the cell to reproduce its own kind or weaken the defense mechanisms, the spirit will exhaust, matter will remain. But the virus is not an independent organism, it is a biorobot, a biological weapon in someone’s hands, the question is what the head of these hands intended ...?
  • HAM
    HAM 23 November 2013 10: 21
    +1
    To the point .. Further, it was "orange", will be "blue" or otherwise, "nature" has a lot of colors.
  • FRITZ LANG
    FRITZ LANG 23 November 2013 10: 35
    +8
    Good morning to everyone, I congratulate everyone on the holiday. Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day, I congratulate all the Orthodox and all other religions who celebrate this holiday. I wish you all happiness, love and understanding. I especially want to congratulate all the military, in my country St. George is the patron saint of the military. Once again, everyone on the occasion.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 23 November 2013 11: 05
      +1
      Quote: FRITZ LANG
      Good morning to everyone, I congratulate everyone on the holiday. Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day,

      Thank! Mutually!
    2. experienced
      experienced 23 November 2013 11: 07
      +2
      Quote: FRITZ LANG
      Today is GIORGOBA, St. George's Day,


      Not too lazy, climbed into the search engine:
      • Day of getting up from that leg
      • Name-days at Orestes, Rodion, Constantine, George, Clementius, Feliciates
      • Memorial Day of St. George the Victorious

      On the third place... recourse
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 50
        +3
        Quote: seasoned
        • Memorial Day of St. George the Victorious

        Day of St. George the Victorious - May 6. I remember from the institute.
        1. FRITZ LANG
          FRITZ LANG 23 November 2013 13: 34
          +6
          Dear Akim, each country has its patron saints. Both dates are celebrated in my country of Georgia. For me, all Orthodox brothers, including you if you are one. Therefore, I wrote that comment, I wanted to share my joyful fortune, I am half Slav, my mother is Slav, my grandfather is Ukrainian, my grandmother Russian. And personally, it is extremely unpleasant for me when the Slavs squabble among themselves to the joy of common enemies.
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 24 November 2013 13: 20
          0
          Quote: Akim
          Day of St. George the Victorious - May 6. I remember from the institute.

          To my great shame, I did not know this date, I "looked" into a search engine, indeed on May 6.
          Now
          will "crash" into memory ... Thank you, +.
    3. duke
      duke 23 November 2013 14: 00
      +3
      Thanks to Fritz on his kind words and to you well-being, happiness and health, good luck and success ...
  • Stasi
    Stasi 23 November 2013 10: 41
    +4
    As one American politician put it: "Weakness does not guarantee peace, but retreat does not guarantee security." This is how you can characterize the thought on the topic of why the army is if no one is going to attack. I am sure that all such destructive processes that are taking place in Ukraine will sooner or later lead to its collapse. The west of the country will go under the protectorate of Poland, and the Center and the South-East will become part of Russia, everything is heading towards this.
    1. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 12: 53
      0
      Quote: Stasi
      The west of the country will go under the protectorate of Poland, and the Center and the South-East will become part of Russia, everything goes to this.

      There you are.
      1. maxvet
        maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 03
        +1
        and a parcel in response? wink
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 20: 23
          +1
          Quote: maxvet
          and the parcel in response

          And if you roll a barrel on it, then this is already called container shipping ...
          1. maxvet
            maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 48
            0
            damn forgot further request
            1. Akim
              Akim 23 November 2013 21: 12
              +1
              Quote: maxvet
              damn forgot further

              ... THIS TRANSAGENITY DOES IN RURAL AREAS.
  • Horst78
    Horst78 23 November 2013 10: 46
    +4
    I wonder how many generals in the army of Ukraine? Probably only the army will consist of them. But there will be few admirals, about 200-300. To control the chermet (which I consider the autonomous ones to be the POWERFUL OCEAN FLEET lol ) I think it will be enough.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 23 November 2013 11: 14
    +6
    Since history loves to repeat itself, and everything apparently goes to its repetition, Ukraine has perhaps two ways, this is joining Russia, following the example of Austria in 1938, perhaps the most painless option, well, or the example of Czechoslovakia is also 38 years old, when to gather "big uncles" And they will divide Ukraine, and the Ukrainian president will quietly sit in the corridor, and wait for him to be summoned to announce the decision and sign where he is indicated, and then kick it back into the corridor. Aliens? Americans? Or do they live with the thought "Everything is worse in Russia"? I understand that for a flawed person, the thought "the neighbor has the same or even worse" is a saving straw that allows you to live, but it may be time to wake up and see what kind of your a country is being bargained for like a carpet in a bazaar? A strong and successful country is not divided like that. Ukraine had a chance, they chose not to use it, but gloated over the USSR and Russia, amused their ChSV well, and now what to do?
  • svp67
    svp67 23 November 2013 11: 16
    +5
    The extremely noticeable part of potential soldiers and even officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the event of a war against Russia will not only immediately surrender, but will express a desire to stand under the three-color banner against the “yellow-block”.
    Very hasty and in many ways NOT the CORRECT conclusion. In a word - Khramchikhin ...
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 23 November 2013 11: 25
      +8
      Yes, before. Now they are recruiting very regular Svidomo from the western regions. You don’t need to feel sorry for those. These are ENEMIES.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 12: 55
        +2
        Quote: leon-iv
        Earlier yes

        Previously, even such a thought was not allowed among the military. Now for you they are all enemies.
  • alone
    alone 23 November 2013 13: 00
    +4
    On the other hand, it is impossible not to admit that Ukraine, by and large, does not need the army because of the absence of a threat of external aggression.


    this is pure truth. why keep a huge army if there is no external threat? that's why surplus weapons are being sold. it's still better than cutting them up for scrap and disposing of them.
    1. duke
      duke 23 November 2013 17: 45
      +1
      another option is also possible, sell everything, and then start buying "leopards", like Poland bully
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 17: 58
        +1
        Quote: duke
        and then start buying "leopards" like Poland

        Poland has a lot of T-72M and RT-91.
  • freedom2013
    freedom2013 23 November 2013 13: 25
    +5
    Every year I visit (in) Ukraine and always meet with classmates. Many took the oath only because they had not stood in line for 6 years and were about to receive it. Now the real state of the army cannot be described without unprintable words. I have a pension more than their salaries. From the latest news: In 2014, there will be no call, they will switch to a contract, but people will go or not is a big question. Of course there is a chance, because just mad unemployed, and fishless fish as they say.
    1. makarov
      makarov 23 November 2013 14: 28
      +1
      "My pension is more than their salary ..."

      And I have a pension more than their salaries. But this is also not an indicator. after all, we are not savages to measure who has a longer and longer pipe on the pisyun ...
      1. freedom2013
        freedom2013 23 November 2013 14: 58
        +1
        Makarych - I agree, we are not savages, but this is one of the indicators of the state of the army.
  • Shumer
    Shumer 23 November 2013 13: 36
    +6
    I don’t remember where I read that the power of the state can be determined by three parameters - this is how children live in the state, how old people live and how people live in uniform. Ah, iron is iron, but military people are begging, all their lives in hostels and removable huts.
    1. freedom2013
      freedom2013 23 November 2013 15: 03
      +1
      The first hut (1-room apartment in Khrushchevka on the 1st floor) was received in 1988 (post about Stepyanka, Minsk district, now Minsk), the wife was pregnant at the 6th month, the second and the last 2011. And so they lived.
  • MOPKOBKA2000
    MOPKOBKA2000 23 November 2013 14: 07
    +1
    Not everyone was lucky with oil-gas. Spin as they can ...
  • valken
    valken 23 November 2013 14: 34
    +1
    and if they go to war in Africa, that is, to create the world, they will put a lot of problems on us. they say more than half in RUSSIAN, and this is a fundamental indicator for afronegres.
  • Endrew
    Endrew 23 November 2013 15: 12
    -4
    The author says that "The troops were equipped with a huge amount of modern military equipment. By the number of tanks (more than 6100)" (T-62 -200, T-64 -2100, T-72 ~ 1000, T-55 -2700, T- 80 -300) of the "modern" only t80!
    1. freedom2013
      freedom2013 23 November 2013 15: 20
      +4
      T-64 and T-72 (3100 pieces), is that junk? In Russia, the T-72 are being modernized.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 15: 25
        +2
        That's about the T-80 exaggeration, There were less than 200 pieces in different suits.
      2. Endrew
        Endrew 23 November 2013 15: 30
        +2
        Almost 40 years in service is not enough? Years of operation of the t-72 since 1974
        Well, the deep modernization of the T-72 is the T-90!
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 15: 41
          +2
          Quote: Endrew
          Years of operation of the T-72 since 1974

          Even judging by this not cunning logic, the oldest "Ural" at the time of the collapse of the USSR was 17 years old. Although on the territory of Ukraine, there were in most tanks of the 80s of production.
    2. Akim
      Akim 23 November 2013 15: 21
      +1
      Quote: Endrew
      from "modern" only t80!

      Here I do not agree. The tanks of the third generation were all quite modern.
      1. Endrew
        Endrew 23 November 2013 15: 36
        -6
        But in the war in Iraq they (t. 72) had almost no chance against the Abrams!
        1. Akim
          Akim 23 November 2013 15: 49
          +5
          Quote: Endrew
          they (t 72) had almost no chance against the Abrams!

          And they there and she fought with them in fights. Moreover, it should be noted that in Iraq there were export T-72Ms and shells, which we removed from production in the late 70s.
  • Fuzeler
    Fuzeler 23 November 2013 15: 33
    +6
    Guys!
    Although I am Ukrainian, I have lived in Russia for almost my entire adult life. Let's not laugh at our neighbors, but think about what we ourselves have left, IF we REMOVE nuclear weapons. Look at our fleet: of all, only the Northern one can, at the very least, solve the tasks of the GREAT POWER. And then, in my opinion, it is not normal when the heavy cruiser "Peter the Great" is sent WITHOUT escort to catch Somali pirates (that is, to carry out tasks that could be completely entrusted to some TFR). And what about the Pacific Fleet, what about the Baltic, eh? What kind of ships are there, the newest or what? Our only advantage over Ukraine is that we can afford to invest in the same Bulava (and then, remember the Union, there such systems were developed much more energetically, and we have not been able to get the result since 2010).
    Farther. Aviation. Maybe I'm confusing something, but look at the 2008 conflict, all our pilots shot down over Georgia were at the rank of no lower than a major, which means that the young were not only taken care of, but simply were not allowed into the sky (well, you can say that and saved in principle) due to the apparently "high" number of raids.
    Ground troops. Hmm, remember this one of our T-90s, with which everything is worn and worn, and the Russian Armed Forces haven’t completely switched to it, and it sits on the T-72 and T-80.
    I understand that now many of you, dear interlocutors, will not agree with me. However, I am not writing this in order to belittle our country - Russia, and our Armed Forces, not at all. Just before you laugh at your neighbor, look at what we ourselves have.
    Yes, you say that in the 90s Ukraine cut an entire Tu-22M3 air regiment and, if I’m not mistaken, the Tu-160x squadron, BUT guys, you see that at the same time, in the 90s, we, under Yeltsin, energetically cut we are our latest, and not so, weapons.

    It's another matter that now they are trying to do something with us, there, the two Mistral-class ships criticized by all have done. Am I scoffing? But no. As one shipbuilding engineer told me from the Northern Shipyards, Russia needs experience in building such ships, because the experience of the USSR, not even experience, but qualified personnel capable of building an aircraft-carrying ship, are absent. Look at the "Vikramaditya" ("Baku"), how many problems there were with the power plant, and in what time frame we handed over this ship to the Indians.

    But nevertheless, my dear fellow citizens from the Russian Federation, well, don’t have to laugh at the Ukrainians like that, especially since we are not in the open.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 23 November 2013 17: 57
      0
      The raid in 2008 was much lower than now, but still higher than in Ukraine. What do we have left? Imagine that everyone here knows, to the Soviet army, as to the moon on foot, that's just the Ukrainian to ours about the same.

      Regarding the aircraft carrier for the Indians, that is a very interesting article:
      http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/exclusive/view/60542/
      And I have no particular doubts that it was like that, because it simply does not happen differently in the absence of a competent customer. So if something flew on an aircraft carrier, it was precisely because it was done according to the wishes of the Indians.
      1. Akim
        Akim 23 November 2013 18: 06
        0
        Quote: EvilLion
        that's just Ukrainian to ours, about the same.

        Well, of course.))) That’s better with pilot training in Russia. Ukraine does not reach twice the number of flight hours per year.
      2. rolik2
        rolik2 23 November 2013 18: 13
        -1
        Quote: EvilLion
        The raid in 2008 was much lower than now, but still higher than in Ukraine.

        And what is the raid in Russia ???
        In half a year, a friend of mine flew 200 hours with something (a third of crews with approximately the same flying time). True, the raid in the squadron is different for everyone from 40-50 hours to 200 (communicated with him at the end of summer at sea), but I don’t know how much they flew at the end of the year - I don’t know. But if you just multiply by 2 then it’s quite normal.
        1. Rider
          Rider 23 November 2013 18: 20
          +1
          Quote: rolik2
          And what is the raid in Russia ???

          Russian Air Force: total flying time of pilots in 2012 amounted to more than 300 thousand hours

          Particular attention was paid to the training of young pilots - graduates of 2011, who on average flew 100 hours each.

          Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049051124050057056052051.html
          1. rolik2
            rolik2 23 November 2013 18: 31
            -1
            How many raid of the average pilot combatant ???
            Do you personally know ???
            I can google dozens of such links.
            Judging by the fact that you get your knowledge on the Internet, then your arguments are worthless.
            1. Rider
              Rider 23 November 2013 18: 54
              0
              Quote: rolik2
              Judging by the fact that you get your knowledge on the Internet, then your arguments are worthless.

              well, you don’t recognize my knowledge, but let me ask, what is YOUR knowledge based on?
              on the information of your (supposedly) friend?
              but how to verify that it really exists?
              and the average training of YOUNG pilots was 100 hours
              as I mentioned.

              Well, now YOUR data is about the guru of aviation sciences.


              Do not be shy, take the trouble to confirm your words.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 23 November 2013 19: 59
      0
      Quote: Fuzeler
      Look at our fleet: of all, only the North can at least solve the tasks of the GREAT POWER.
      Now the fleet is not so hot. But OH built, albeit with problems. The fleet cannot be revived in a year or three, it is a long work and it is going on ...
      Here is a table for ships under construction and chartered, without submarines. http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43684/
    3. maxvet
      maxvet 23 November 2013 20: 13
      0
      Quote: Fuzeler
      Maybe I'm confusing something, but look at the 2008 conflict, all our pilots shot down over Georgia were at the rank of no lower than a major, which means that the young were not only taken care of, but simply were not allowed into the sky (well, you can say that and saved in principle) due to the apparently "high" number of raids.

      Or maybe they wanted to give the majors a chance to get military awards? IMHO
  • Arkan