Military Review

The difficult past and ambiguous future of the armored personnel carrier BTR-4

28
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, independent Ukraine received a large number of defense enterprises. Part of the Ukrainian defense industry has become a victim of economic and political problems, but several organizations still exist and create new military equipment. One of the most famous projects of military equipment created by Ukrainian engineers is the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier. Using existing experience, the designers of the Kharkov Design Bureau of Mechanical Engineering named. A.A. Morozov could create their own version of a modern armored personnel carrier. However, for various reasons, the BTR-4 combat vehicle is no longer known as a worthy modern armored personnel carrier, but as the subject of numerous fierce disputes.



An early version of the BTR-4 (the first prototype) with the Thunder combat module (c) KMDB them. A.A. Morozova


Discussions around the BTR-4 project began immediately after the demonstration of the first prototype in the 2006 year. Soon after the prototype of a promising combat vehicle was shown, the interested public split into two camps with diametrically opposed positions. Supporters of the BTR-4 car rejoice at every success of the Ukrainian defense industry, and in disputes they are pressing on the advantages of the armored personnel carrier. Opponents of the project, in turn, are used to confirm their position. news or even rumors of technical or economic failures. Due to its duration, this dispute often goes from a confrontation of arguments to a banal abuse.

Kharkov company, not paying attention to the disputes, continues to implement the project. For several years, a number of modifications of the promising armored personnel carrier were created, and some of them became the subject of contracts. To date, it is known about the signing of three agreements. In 2009, two contracts were concluded with a difference of several months. In accordance with the first 10, the BTR-4 armored personnel carriers must go to serve in the armed forces of Ukraine, and the second involves the delivery of 420 vehicles of several versions to Iraq. The cost of the Iraqi contract exceeded 450 million US dollars. In the spring of 2012, Ukraine and Kazakhstan signed an agreement on the joint construction of 100 new combat vehicles with a total value of about 150 million dollars. Also interest in the BTR-4 expressed Kuwait and Macedonia.

It cannot be said that the fulfillment of the contracts was completely disrupted, but it is necessary to note the fact that some success was achieved only in relation to the Iraqi order. For economic reasons, the Ukrainian army still has not been able to buy even ten previously ordered armored personnel carriers of the new model. Much more successful can be considered an agreement with Iraq. From March 2011 to February 2013, the Iraqi Commission received over 120 new combat vehicles, but the Iraqi army actually received less than a hundred armored personnel carriers.


The layout and configuration of nodes and systems. (c) http://sfw.so


At the beginning of this year, information appeared in a number of media outlets that Iraq intends to abandon the existing contract with Ukraine. However, in March a kind of refutation of this information appeared - the 42 armored personnel carrier, adopted by the commission in February, was loaded onto the SE Pacifica ship and sent to Iraq. At the end of April, the ship arrived at the Iraqi port, but the military of the Middle Eastern state did not receive a new vehicle. The Iraqi Ministry of Defense refused to unload the ship and pick up the armored personnel carriers. According to available information, the Iraqi side refused to accept the car because of the large number of defects, namely due to cracks in the buildings. In this regard, the ship SE Pacifica was forced to go into neutral waters and anchor, waiting for the end of the situation.

The wait lasted several months, during which the company-owner of White Whale Shipping threatened with sanctions of the organization Ukrspetsexport, which is responsible for the supply of military equipment to foreign countries. Because of the idleness of the vessel and the lack of payment, the owners of SE Pacifica promised to unload armored personnel carriers in a third country and, if necessary, initiate a lawsuit, as a result of which the vehicles would be sold and the proceeds would go to compensate the carrier’s costs. In early September, the 42 armored personnel carrier was arrested by Indian authorities. It is worth noting that the vessel SE Pacifica, in addition to the 42 BTR-4, was carrying a large cargo of metal that had to be delivered to India. Due to the downtime in the Persian Gulf, 70, thousands of tons of metal were delivered to the customer three months later than the agreed time. In this regard, the total amount of penalties requested by the Indian side amounted to 500 thousand dollars.

In late September, the Indian authorities lifted the arrest from the ship and it again went to Iraq. But this time, the Iraqi military refused to accept armored vehicles. According to some information, in the very near future the contract for the supply of 420 armored vehicles will be finally canceled, and only a few dozen of the armored personnel carriers that were delivered earlier will remain in the Iraqi army.


The interior of the car, the case of the use of habitable combat modules such as "BAU 23х2", "Thunder", "Flurry". (c) http://sfw.so


History with the sailing of the vessel SE Pacifica can be considered a real catastrophe for the BTR-4 project. Due to the fact that Iraq refused to accept armored vehicles ordered earlier, Ukrspetsexport found itself in an extremely difficult position. Money for armored personnel carriers was not received, the shipowner company billed not only for the transportation of cargo, but also for several months of vessel idleness, and Indian businessmen are demanding to pay a huge fine. According to reports, disputes over the financial side of the current situation continue to this day.

The situation with the implementation of the Iraqi contract has become a new cause for violent disputes. As before, supporters and opponents of the BTR-4 project interpret this situation in accordance with their position. Iraq’s refusal to accept the third batch of armored vehicles is called a small problem that can be easily resolved and the reason for closing the project due to the final destruction of its prospects in the eyes of potential customers. What will happen to the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier in the near future is difficult to say. Probably, the Ukrainian defense industry will attempt to sign a contract with the countries that have expressed their interest in this project.


BTR-4 with module BAU 23х2 on water testing. (c) http://sfw.so


It must be recognized that, despite all the problems of a political, economic and technological nature, the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier is worth attention. Unlike the previous Ukrainian cars of similar purpose, the BTR-94 and the BTR-3, it is not a further development or modernization of models of equipment created in the Soviet Union. In the design of the BTR-4 used some technical solutions inherent in modern foreign armored personnel carriers. First of all, it is the layout of the case with an average location of the engine compartment. Such an arrangement of units allowed the control compartment to remain in front of the hull and move the troop compartment to the stern. Thus, in terms of its layout, the BTR-4 meets the requirements for modern armored personnel carriers, since the landing force can land through the stern door, being covered from bullets and fragments by the whole vehicle.

Another important feature of the BTR-4 relates to its weapon system. The project initially envisaged the use of various combat modules, including those with remote control. To date, several new combat modules have been developed that are suitable for use on the BTR-4. Initially, the Thunder combat module was considered as a weapon system. In the construction of this module, some already mastered solutions are applied. Thus, the weapon operator is located inside the armored corps, but its head is inside the small turret. Operator's workplace is rigidly connected with the other units of the module and rotates with them. Above the roof of the turret of the operator is located observant and sighting equipment, as well as the characteristic system of mounting weapons. The Thunder combat module carries one 30 mm automatic caliber gun, an 30-mm automatic grenade launcher and a rifle caliber machine gun. In addition, the transportation and use of four anti-tank missiles "Competition" or "Barrier" is possible. Armament and ammunition, with the exception of missiles, are located in an armored casing.

A bit later, the Parus combat module appeared, having the same weaponry. In this new module is built differently: the workplace of the operator is stationary, and only the upper turret rotates. The control of weapons is carried out using the remote. At the request of the customer, the workplace of the commander can be equipped with a control panel. The use of the new architecture helped to optimize the layout of the modules of the module, which in particular led to an increase in the ammunition load of the automatic gun.

From the very beginning of the project, it was assumed that on the basis of the BTR-4 it would be possible to make machines of various purposes. For example, a contract with Iraq meant the supply 270 BTR-4E with combat unit "Sail», 80 commander BTR-4K, 30 command and staff vehicles BTR-4KSH, sanitary BSEM 30-4 10K and repair and recovery ARV-4. In addition, there are project options for the installation of new engines and weapon systems.

In February 2013, the Kharkov engineering design bureau presented its new development - the BTR-4MV armored personnel carrier. The main difference of this modification is enhanced booking. The case is said to provide third-level protection under the NATO standard STANAG 4569. Declared the ability to install additional reservations, increasing the level of protection to 4 or 5 level. To increase the level of protection, the front part of the case underwent large modifications. The top of the frontal part of the hull now consists of a single plate on which the commander’s observation devices and the driver’s hatch are installed.

The difficult past and ambiguous future of the armored personnel carrier BTR-4
BTR-4МВ at the IDEX 2013 Arms Exhibition (c) www.militaryparitet.com


An interesting feature of the updated BTR-4MV is the ramp of the troop compartment. A door was installed on the base BTR-4 in the rear hull sheet. On the upgraded car, almost the entire rear wall of the troop compartment performs the function of a lowered ramp. However, there is a door in it. As practice shows, in some situations, a relatively small door may not be sufficient to land and disembark or load the wounded.

Armament BTR-4МВ similarly arms base armored personnel carrier. In the future, the development of new combat modules or the use of existing foreign ones is possible.

The sample of the armored personnel carrier BTR-2013МВ presented at the IDEX-4 exhibition in February was equipped with a German diesel engine produced by Deutz BF6M1015CP with 450 horsepower. The use of a similar power plant, which provides the vehicle with mobility at the level of the base BTR-4, has raised some questions. The fact is that one of the reasons for pride in the Ukrainian defense industry was the use of the 4DT diesel engine on the BTR-3. However, on the prototype of the car of a new modification for some reason used the engine of foreign production.

The modifications applied in the BTR-4MB project are expected to interest foreign buyers. However, now the new armored personnel carrier is at the stage of testing and refinement, because of what is not yet offered to customers. The lack of accurate information does not allow for a full assessment of the prospects of the upgraded version of the BTR-4, but the stated improvements may be useful.

In the context of the BTR-4 project, rumors and verified information about several technological problems repeatedly appeared. As an example of such information, one can cite the statements of Iraqi customers who accompanied the refusal of the armored vehicles brought. In addition, at the end of February of this year, a representative of the security commission of the Iraqi parliament criticized the quality of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers, and also accused Ukraine of failing delivery times.

Due to such statements by officials, the further fate of the BTR-4 project continues to be a subject of controversy. Iraq already has some experience in operating Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and therefore can be considered a worthy source of information about the characteristics of these vehicles. The information announced by the officials, as well as the refusal to accept already built equipment, are a serious blow to the reputation of the project, which can have the greatest consequences, including the loss of interest from potential customers.

At the moment, the future of the Ukrainian armored personnel carriers remains unclear. The current situation can cause a variety of emotions, including pity. It is sad to see how an interesting and promising project could not realize its full potential. The claimed appearance of the BTR-4 is able to interest small, poor countries that need new relatively inexpensive armored personnel carriers. However, a number of production and technological problems that could have caused Iraq’s claims does not allow for the completion of the first major contract. The latest BTR-4ВМ project in this case turns out to be Ukraine’s main hope for a full-fledged entry into the international armored personnel carrier market. Over the next few years, we will find out whether Ukrainian defense enterprises will be able to provide customers with decent modern armored vehicles or not.


On the materials of the sites:
http://morozov.com.ua/
http://lenta.ru/
http://vesti.ua/
http://army-guide.com/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
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  1. imho.in.ua
    imho.in.ua 15 November 2013 08: 39
    +6
  2. rolik2
    rolik2 15 November 2013 09: 34
    18
    Start right now laughing
    Although, if nothing is done, then nothing will work, well done Ukrainians. Any new technique has a bunch of childhood illnesses, I don't think that "Kurganets" or "Boomerang" will immediately be an ideal and balanced model. It is impossible to calculate finally EVERYTHING on paper. Only exploitation can reveal weaknesses, which is now happening with the Ukrainian armored personnel carrier. If I am not mistaken, the BTR-4MV is already the third version of this BTR. So the process is underway.

    BTR-4E at the "Arms and Security" exhibition (Photo report)
    http://bm-oplot.livejournal.com/4530.html
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 15 November 2013 12: 09
      +9
      Quote: rolik2
      Any new technique has a bunch of childhood illnesses.

      I do not think that it is a matter of childhood diseases. BTR is not an overwhelming technique, the design potential, at least that was earlier in the Ukrainian defense industry, is quite sufficient to create a modern machine.
      Here, rather, the author's statement is true that "a number production and technological problems, which could have caused Iraqi claims, does not allow the completion of the first major contract. "Roughly speaking, production has been torn apart, it is necessary to restore it, put in order, make financial infusions, etc. etc. They will be able, then these armored personnel carriers will will find their niche in the market.
      No fools designed them.
    2. duke
      duke 21 November 2013 16: 25
      0
      looking at the shape of the hull, the impression is that they used the hulls of the BTR-60, yes, the engine is correctly positioned, which made it possible to exit back, but it is not clear whether there is a passage from the nose to the airborne compartment, such as on the French VAB. The tower is ugly and overly tall. I don’t know how with the quality of the gun, the A-42 clone. I don’t know what about the running gear, they left it from the BTR-80 or changed something, for a bigger weight and how cool it is holding it. Perhaps balancing the car is not ah, hence the problems with cracks in the hulls. In fact, even visually 4 looks clearly overweight. When swimming, water fills the glass, although the latest variations are already without glass. I don’t know, in my opinion the BTR-82 is clearly better designed, although the shape of the hull remains the same. I hope that our new armored personnel carriers will be an order of magnitude better than this cuttlefish. Things are not so simple with the Iraqis, of course it is more profitable for them to take the entire line of armaments from the USA or Russia than separate, not fully developed positions, like this four from Ukraine.
  3. kafa
    kafa 15 November 2013 10: 01
    0
    mechanical drive hatch idiocy when landing disembarking and not comfortable and vulnerable sad
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 15 November 2013 11: 39
      0
      Quote: kafa
      mechanical drive hatch idiocy when landing disembarking and not comfortable and vulnerable

      As I understand it, this hatch is used by the crew commander in addition to the mechwater driver.
  4. Kars
    Kars 15 November 2013 10: 06
    12
    cancer already has some experience in operating Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and therefore can be considered a worthy source of information about the characteristics of these vehicles

    It is strange that just such a source of information has not posted a photo. Of cracks ... of armored corps.


    But this contract will be a good lesson on how to draw up documents with Arab customers.
  5. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 15 November 2013 10: 44
    0
    Quote: imho.in.ua


    Killed in the video - They delivered the products, they didn’t give the money, holy simplicity - did they deliver them honestly? lol
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 15 November 2013 11: 20
      +3
      Quote: And Us Rat
      hit in the video - They delivered the products, they didn’t give the money, holy simplicity - did they deliver them honestly? lol

      I think that someone - still got ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 15 November 2013 11: 52
        +3
        Quote: PSih2097
        that someone - still got ...

        American intermediary.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 15 November 2013 11: 18
    0
    And why are the problems with the "main caliber" not mentioned? After all, it all started with them.
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 16 November 2013 01: 50
      +3
      Problems with the main caliber were eliminated during the first delivery. After this, problems were not observed!
  8. svp67
    svp67 15 November 2013 11: 27
    +2
    The machine is certainly interesting, but only a few questions are raised by the landing in the first version, all over the world, in order to protect the crew, the seats are "suspended", I wonder how this issue is solved on the modified BTR4?
    1. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 14: 15
      0
      Quote: svp67
      The machine is certainly interesting, but only a few questions are raised by the landing in the first version, all over the world, in order to protect the crew, the seats are "suspended", I wonder how this issue is solved on the modified BTR4?

      I agree. You have correctly noticed about the seats, I will also bring in my "amateur's five cents" repeat , the combat module is not high? How is he with protection? And the driver’s hatch is somehow not very what .
      1. GastaClaus69
        GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 16: 10
        +6
        Quote: svp67
        to protect the crew, the seats are "suspended"

        In the BTR-4E, the seats weigh, in the photo in the article before the serial machine that was tested (riveted for the money of the plant).
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        the combat module is not high?

        They tried to install the Sturm combat module on BTR-4, but it turned out to be low because the bm of the BTR-4 was shifted back, there were not enough vertical aiming angles. They tried to set BM Thunder and BAU-23, but settled on the BM Parus version (I personally am a bit confused about its dimensions, albeit remotely controlled).
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        How is he with protection?

        The sharp-headed armor-piercing tracer shell BR-471 holds)
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 17: 00
          +1
          Quote: GastaClaus69
          Quote: Eugeniy_369
          How is he with protection?
          The sharp-headed armor-piercing tracer shell BR-471 holds)

          Thank you)))) But only ... I asked about the protection of the combat module, I'm sorry that I misled repeat . Next time I will specify wink .
          1. GastaClaus69
            GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 17: 40
            +1
            Exact figures are hardly available in open sources.
            I think nothing more serious than 7.62 and can not stand the fragments,
            ideally, this should be enough, the module is remote so that no one will be hurt if they break through. In Iraq, for the attack on the columns, landmines were used to stop the column, small arms for fire on manpower + overwhelming fire and RPGs for firing at armored vehicles. BTR-4s go to Iraq with nets and firepower is good, only problems with landmines can arise.
            The quality is not so hot but still ..
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 19: 03
              0
              Quote: GastaClaus69
              I think nothing more serious than 7.62 and can not stand the fragments,

              For Vidos ATP, about the module, remote is good, but only from shelling 7,62 will not stick it?
              1. GastaClaus69
                GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 20: 05
                +2
                If there are no anti-tank weapons, where should the infantryman shoot the tank? Optics, of course!
                So here the optics are likely to be beaten.
                Although judging by the way the Iraqis use them, even this does not threaten them. I went to one Iraqi military forum (alas, I don’t remember the address), there were many BTR-4 photographs there, and they said that they use them at roadblocks as pillboxes. In fact, for days on end they stand under the sun and slowly become antiques.

                That would not be boring.
                1. gych
                  gych 16 November 2013 18: 26
                  0
                  for the ATP video!
        2. duke
          duke 21 November 2013 17: 08
          0
          excuse me, what part of the case does he hold it and what caliber of the projectile are we talking about, I hope not BR-471 -122mm ?? crying
    2. Jake danzels
      Jake danzels 15 November 2013 15: 00
      +3
      Vasya Chobitok sits in 4 later releases.
      And here is a rather interesting photo report http://bm-oplot.livejournal.com/4530.html
    3. Patton5
      Patton5 17 November 2013 23: 15
      0
      all over the world, in order to protect the crew, the seats are "suspended"
      Here you have the airborne squad of the US BTR striker ....
  9. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 11: 42
    0
    And I am extremely interested in developing relations with a Kazakh buyer.
    No information on this subject, only speculation.
    Quote: article
    In the spring of 2012, Ukraine and Kazakhstan signed an agreement on the joint construction of 100 new combat vehicles with a total value of about $ 150 million.

    Was it an agreement of intent? A kind of declaration?
    1. marshes
      marshes 15 November 2013 12: 48
      +3
      Quote: Flood
      And I am extremely interested in developing relations with a Kazakh buyer.
      No information on this subject, only speculation.

      You will see at CADEX-2014. In May.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 52
        0
        Quote: marshes
        You will see at CADEX-2014. In May.

        Have you started the assembly?
        And then involuntarily amid supplies of Russian BTR-82 thoughts arise about the suspension of this contract.
        1. marshes
          marshes 15 November 2013 13: 00
          +1
          Quote: Flood
          And then involuntarily amid supplies of Russian BTR-82 thoughts arise about the suspension of this contract.

          82 were delivered in full and with Ukraine a separate contract, there are a lot of changes on joint production, technical documentation, maybe it will be called in a new way.
          By the way, our 80s put a Chinese combat module with 30 mm equipment.
  10. Akim
    Akim 15 November 2013 11: 51
    +4
    For me, bf - return the ship and put these beters in some mechanized brigade and PR in the process of operation. In general, during the time of Yusch, many muddy contracts were concluded.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 54
      +2
      Quote: Akim
      For me, bf - return the ship and put these beters in some mechanized brigade and PR in the process of operation.

      This would be the right move, if such a decision was taken by the leadership from the very beginning. Plus refinement of equipment according to the results of operation.
      But now this party of nomadic armored personnel carriers will be released in gold.
      1. Akim
        Akim 15 November 2013 13: 18
        +1
        Quote: Flood
        But now this party of nomadic armored personnel carriers will be released in gold.

        It’s not thought. Even with all the penalties for drift - their price is about 2 million. These are two bats. Iraq in the last batch received three for free, for the delay in the contract due to guns.
    2. sapran
      sapran 15 November 2013 13: 49
      0
      Akim is a dregs due to the capture of PR eagles. Yusch is here past the cash register
      1. Akim
        Akim 15 November 2013 14: 29
        +1
        Quote: sapran
        Yusch is here past the cash register

        Maybe so. All of them are good geese.
  11. sapran
    sapran 15 November 2013 11: 52
    +4
    Problems with the "main caliber" feature emerged from the 90s gun at the base of this 2A72 is designed to work in twin with a rigid barrel carriage of 100 mm BMP-3 cannon. Everyone was bribed by the apparent simplicity - there were few details, the weight was minimal, the difficulty in deploying production at a non-core enterprise was not expected ... and then it started.
    the first call we took into account the BTR-80A (Russian delivery to Turkey) gave a mass failure of automation and the absence of the concept of accuracy for this weapon, but the Russians had at least a specialized enterprise where the production of barrels was streamlined and the steel was produced according to the technology, in Ukraine it was a novelty (here sweat). The first successful module "Shkval" had a stiffness truss for the barrel, so problems with accuracy for automatic fire were solved, but with the debugging of the barrel economy and mechanisms and AMMUNITION, it was delayed but decided ...
  12. tchoni
    tchoni 15 November 2013 14: 12
    +1
    A relatively inexpensive armored personnel carrier - is it a lam with a little dollars? - Well, I don’t know directly.

    And as for the car, I still want to see the fighters deployed to the sides. The more eyes they look around, the more whole they will be.

    Well, the driver’s hatch with the commander is chic! like on t-34
    1. Akim
      Akim 15 November 2013 14: 36
      +1
      Quote: tchoni
      A relatively inexpensive armored personnel carrier - is it a lam with a little dollars? - Well, I don’t know directly.

      I once gave a translation of a Polish article here. An WTR of a Wolverine with a tower and a 30-mm Mauser costs 9,8 million zlotys (3,145 million bucks). So think it is expensive or not.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 15 November 2013 16: 52
        0
        After this, the Polish army should buy Ukrainian TBTR - it will be cheaper :-)
        A friend of mine recently bought for 1.200.000 BTR-80 in the version for the Ministry of Emergencies (KShM ka based on BTR-80, only with frontal and side windows).
        So understand how much it really costs.
        1. Akim
          Akim 15 November 2013 16: 55
          +1
          Quote: tchoni
          A friend of mine recently bought a BTR -1.200.000 for 80

          Currency - rubles?
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 18 November 2013 13: 40
            0
            Yes. naturally retired
      2. duke
        duke 21 November 2013 16: 57
        0
        do not forget that Wolverine is a clone of Finnish Patria, a very competently designed and tested machine, one of the best, and possibly the best in the world today. I think the weapons and the OMS are also some of the best, but besides that, the Poles need to beat off the headstock for a license - no?
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 15 November 2013 19: 36
      +2
      Well, the driver’s hatch with the commander is chic! like on t-34

      Continuity, however. They come from one factory.
  13. papik09
    papik09 15 November 2013 14: 15
    +2
    And yet, in Ukraine, we also have brains. I am immensely happy for this. Author +++. Thank. hi
    1. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 17: 03
      +1
      Quote: papik09
      And yet, in Ukraine, we also have brains.

      And no one argue lol . Neighbors do not slurp cabbage soup good .
  14. JonnyT
    JonnyT 15 November 2013 15: 12
    +2
    Poor Harkovskoye kb- survives in spite of everything .... the entire production base is destroyed, corruption is everywhere, in such conditions it is very difficult to implement contracts
  15. Argon
    Argon 15 November 2013 16: 05
    0
    It’s a very nice car (as planned) from the point of view that the BTR is primarily a transport vehicle and not a combat vehicle, the crew has an overview, especially the driver’s seat, ease of landing (all of the above does not apply to the BTR-4MV). in my opinion, a clear warp to the side. I would like more information about what engines, what kind of transmission.
  16. Akim
    Akim 15 November 2013 16: 33
    0
    And the Thais at the exhibition showed their BTR, which is similar to the BTR-4M, only more.
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 16: 42
    0
    BM-7 Sail Combat Module
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 16: 45
    0
    BM-3M Sturm combat module
  22. GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 16: 47
    0
    BAU-23 combat module
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. GastaClaus69
    GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 16: 48
    +4
    Thunder combat module
    1. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 17: 05
      0
      With Thunder, in my opinion, the highest, and the stand is not covered embarrassing. With Sail it seems normal, still to compare performance characteristics ....
      1. GastaClaus69
        GastaClaus69 15 November 2013 18: 02
        +2
        I apologize!! TTX was too lazy to look, well, as they say: who wants to find it.
        Sail and Sturm, in my opinion, will have better optics, the performance characteristics of weapons are almost the same except for the BAU-23 (2 23mm 2A7M, PKT 7.62), although 4 ATGM Barriers can be suspended from Grom. By the way, the Turkmens put thunder on their eighties. The Iraqis preferred the Sail (in fact, at that time it was crude, from the court and the statement of the problem with the gun (grenade launcher?)), The set hour seems to be all right.

        Offtop of course but looks interesting, South African Ratel and BAU-23. (clickable)
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 19: 06
          0
          Quote: GastaClaus69
          I apologize!! TTX was too lazy to look, well, as they say: who wants to find it.
          Sail and Sturm, in my opinion, will have better optics, the performance characteristics of weapons are almost the same except for the BAU-23 (2 23mm 2A7M, PKT 7.62), although 4 ATGM Barriers can be suspended from Grom. By the way, the Turkmens put thunder on their eighties. The Iraqis preferred the Sail (in fact, at that time it was crude, from the court and the statement of the problem with the gun (grenade launcher?)), The set hour seems to be all right.

          Offtop of course but looks interesting, South African Ratel and BAU-23. (clickable)

          Thank you for the info, I did not know that the "badger" BAU was slapped))))
          1. Akim
            Akim 15 November 2013 19: 26
            0
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            Thank you for the info, I did not know that the "badger" BAU was slapped))))

            Here he is in Rwanda. (but there is no stabilizer).
    2. duke
      duke 21 November 2013 16: 48
      0
      this "thunder" module looks like the creation of a seriously ill abstract artist, although I don't know how it actually proved itself, for example, in Iraq. Okay, at least the neighbors from Ukraine write that the cannon (based on the 2A-72) has been improved, already happy. It is interesting how the mechanic and the commander will leave the car through this lattice, it looks like they will remain like it, unless there is a passage to the troop compartment. Although for checkpoints in Iraq, they are probably in the control department and dumb. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but to buy this miracle of unearthly technology for $ 1,5 million / piece, I would be careful if I were in the place of the Iraqis, although they imposed clear pepper, since at that time they were almost not in the Ukrainian army, single samples do not count.
  25. Algor73
    Algor73 15 November 2013 17: 19
    0
    The armored personnel carrier may be damp in some ways, but Iraq’s refusal is not justified by technical problems; here, politics played a role. And the competitors tried. This is my opinion, since there is not a single evidence of technical malfunction of armored personnel carriers, cracks in the hulls, etc. was not provided.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 15 November 2013 17: 48
      +2
      Quote: Algor73
      The armored personnel carrier may be damp in some ways, but Iraq’s refusal is not justified by technical problems; here, politics played a role. And the competitors tried.

      If by competitors you mean Russia, as some Ukrainian media report, then I completely do not understand what leverage the Russian Federation can have on the Iraqi leadership. Billion preferential loans? So is it worth it?
    2. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 15 November 2013 19: 19
      0
      Quote: Algor73
      but Iraq’s refusal is not justified by technical problems, here politics played a role

      I agree, but denyuzhka also affects, hello to the "amersky" military-industrial complex hi .
  26. pawel57
    pawel57 15 November 2013 18: 08
    0
    Let them rearrange their army. If the car is good they will notice and buy it
    1. gych
      gych 16 November 2013 18: 40
      0
      it’s not funny! where did the money come from? we have gas and oil ma! unless the majors will arm their guards
  27. sapran
    sapran 15 November 2013 18: 15
    0
    In one of the many topics devoted to BTR-4E and their correspondence in absentia with BTR-82, I already wrote that it would be preferable for Iraqis to have BTR-82 for a range of tasks and methods for solving them. We ourselves are to blame for this, since one of the first deliveries was the classic BTR-80 from stocks.
    It is very difficult to paint after this car why you have to pay more for the BTR-4E.
    The Iraqis themselves insisted on simplifying the installation of the main armament, correspondingly reducing the price and the difficulty in training the armament operators, repair and daily operation of the machines.
    BTR-82 is just for their tasks and methods of solution.
  28. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 15 November 2013 19: 03
    -6
    KB restructuring and modernization? Are there any developments? (I mean modern)?
  29. sapran
    sapran 15 November 2013 19: 12
    +4
    trolling? Or do you think this is the eleventh modernization of the BTR-60-70-80?
  30. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 15 November 2013 20: 19
    +1
    There is a BTR-4 in the metal ...

    A contract is being implemented in Iraq ...

    There are modifications of both soma 4-ki and its combat modules ...

    What is the article about?

    One envy!
  31. freedom2013
    freedom2013 15 November 2013 20: 42
    0
    The fact that the quality of the Kharkov armored personnel carriers turned out to be not so hot is not their fault but their misfortune. I will try to explain. After being fired, he ended up working at one of the research institutes of the military-industrial complex. I was struck by a fairly large number of young employees, I asked how much they receive. It turns out after the reign of the tagged and the drunk, there were almost no youth am and GDP to attract young people to the military-industrial complex introduced grandees for young professionals good and the people went, a generation of grandchildren and grandfathers appeared, as they say. In Ukraine, this is not, everyone is pulled mainly by specialists from the Soviet school. So cracks appear in the cases. I wish Ukraine to overcome these problems, because if your business gets under way, then ours will have to work better, competition. soldier
  32. Maxxx
    Maxxx 16 November 2013 12: 49
    -1
    One word, halfwits. Such a contract was profiled ... now no one will buy it at all.
    1. gych
      gych 16 November 2013 18: 35
      0
      I don’t quite agree with you! Fuck as you put it and we won’t show your finger! We’ll wait and see about purchases, Poland is interested in our products
  33. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 16 November 2013 21: 10
    -3
    The nomenclature of caterpillar vehicles developed by GP KHKBM includes the main battle tanks Yatagan, Oplot, T-80UD, the heavy infantry fighting vehicle BTMP-84 and the armored repair and recovery vehicle BREM-Oplot.
    The wheeled vehicles developed by GP KhKBM are armored personnel carriers BTR-3, BTR-4
    Guys! At least kick me, at least minus, but ALL of the above is a "file revision" of the Soviet heritage. Where is your ??? From scratch...
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 16 November 2013 22: 39
      +2
      Russia does not refuse the heritage, Belarus does not refuse, Kazakhstan does, and why should Ukraine refuse that it belongs by right?
      1. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 17 November 2013 00: 56
        -3
        Yes, do not refuse. Go to mom's tights until retirement ...
        1. GastaClaus69
          GastaClaus69 17 November 2013 01: 05
          +1
          None of these are the times to change mom's tights to a mini skirt.
    2. gych
      gych 17 November 2013 01: 25
      -1
      and where exactly did you see the legacy?
      1. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 17 November 2013 09: 54
        -1
        Yes, all industrial enterprises (of which zilch remains) are the legacy of the Union, as in Russia and in other republics ...
  34. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 16 November 2013 21: 20
    -4
    Quote: gych
    , Poland is interested in our products
    Yes, Poland is not interested in your products, but in territories. History needs to be taught ... Not distorted, but real. (accept cons)
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 16 November 2013 22: 45
      +1
      Quote: Prapor-527
      but territories.

      After the Volyn massacre and Operation Vistula, the Poles no longer wanted to look at the lands inhabited by the Ukrainians.
      Quote: Prapor-527
      History needs to be taught ... Not distorted, but real.

      Enlighten, what kind of story is this, probably without propaganda and not written by the winners. Do not be greedy for a reference if possible?
      1. Prapor-527
        Prapor-527 17 November 2013 00: 25
        -2
        Western Ukraine - the territory of Poland (at least the Poles consider it to be such)
        1. GastaClaus69
          GastaClaus69 17 November 2013 01: 03
          0
          I saw one Pole in Lutsk who decided to express this by ear and saw what happened to him, so I’m calm beyond the western borders!
          1. Prapor-527
            Prapor-527 17 November 2013 10: 17
            0
            It is gratifying! Now I am calm. hi
        2. duke
          duke 21 November 2013 17: 19
          0
          excuse me this is not so, even Warsaw was built on the site of the old-Russian territories, which were bitten off by the Polish Krul, after the provision of "fraternal, international" assistance to Kiev and Galician Rus, in the 13-15th centuries. And Lvov, so you know, was built by the Russian prince Daniel Galitsky for his son Lev.
  35. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 17 November 2013 00: 46
    -1
    Enlighten, what is this story The story is one for all ...
    1. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 17 November 2013 00: 58
      0
      That's just to interpret it each in its own way, especially when it is beneficial !! sad
  36. gych
    gych 17 November 2013 01: 22
    +2
    Quote: Prapor-527
    Quote: gych
    , Poland is interested in our products
    Yes, Poland is not interested in your products, but in territories. History needs to be taught ... Not distorted, but real. (accept cons)

    Well, who is not interested only in the territories of Ukraine? Russia, too, is not a refuser from a piece, only this has to do with it?
  37. Target
    Target 14 December 2014 19: 14
    0
    Quote: Prapor-527
    The nomenclature of caterpillar vehicles developed by GP KHKBM includes the main battle tanks Yatagan, Oplot, T-80UD, the heavy infantry fighting vehicle BTMP-84 and the armored repair and recovery vehicle BREM-Oplot.
    The wheeled vehicles developed by GP KhKBM are armored personnel carriers BTR-3, BTR-4
    Guys! At least kick me, at least minus, but ALL of the above is a "file revision" of the Soviet heritage. Where is your ??? From scratch...


    Russian developments: T-72B3, T-90 (A, AM, C, SM), BTR-82, BTR-88, BTR-90 (88 and 90 are not accepted), BMP-3 and other promising developments. Here you will select them IT, development from scratch.