Military Review

Georgian Army: before and after the war

126
Georgian Army: before and after the war
Georgian soldiers at the mourning ceremony in memory of those killed in the 2008 war of the year. Photo: Shakh Aivazov / AP, archive



Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili was convinced that he had created a modern army capable of defeating not only Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but also Russia.

The Georgian Armed Forces, like many other post-Soviet armies, were built from a state of complete chaos, becoming a synthesis of the remnants of the Soviet army and the local people's militia. In the Georgian case, more local specifics were added - in the early 90s, the country was undergoing a “triple” civil war - for power in Tbilisi and for keeping Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The first of these wars was, to a large extent, the cause of the loss of the other two. In 1993, Georgia had 108 inherited from the USSR tanks, 121 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 17 artillery pieces, four combat aircraft and a helicopter. However, a significant part of this technique was lost in Abkhazia. After that, for ten years, the Georgian army remained, in fact, a “legitimate gang formation”, extremely underfunded and absolutely incompetent.

Saakashvili, who came to power at the end of 2003, achieved a radical change in the situation in the country in general and in the army in particular. Thanks to the improvement of the economic situation and curbing “grassroots” corruption, funding for the Armed Forces has increased even by several orders of magnitude. In addition, Western military assistance appeared, the scale of which, however, is greatly exaggerated (in reality it was a few percent of the country's military budget). Georgia began to massively purchase weapon abroad, primarily in the Czech Republic and Ukraine, among other suppliers were Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Turkey, Israel, and the USA. It was acquired almost exclusively by the former Soviet weapons, or Eastern European created on its basis, which, however, was modernized using Western technologies. There were almost no non-Soviet systems of origin. The exceptions were the Spider 1 battery of the Israeli anti-aircraft missile system (ZRK), the extremely obsolete American IH-6H Iroquois helicopters and a French-made Greek rocket boat.

By August 2008, the ground forces of Georgia had five infantry brigades, as well as one artillery and special forces brigade. They were armed with 247 tanks (191 T-72, 56 T-55), more than 150 BMP, around 150 BTR, near 50 SAU, about 200 towed guns, about 300 mortars, about 30 launcher; self-propelled anti-aircraft installations (ZSU) and anti-aircraft guns.

Air forces of the country were armed with X-NUMX attack aircraft Su-12, 25 training aircraft L-12С (theoretically can be used as light attack aircraft), 39 transport "maize" An-6, 2 attack helicopters Mi-8, 24 multi-purpose helicopters Mi-18 8 of the aforementioned UH-6H.

Ground defense included the 7 divisions of the old C-125 air defense system remaining from the USSR, as well as the more modern two divisions of the Buk-М1 air defense system received from Ukraine (each with three batteries, each with two launchers and one ROM, 16 SAM, each) , from 6 to 18 SAMs "Osa-AK" and "Osa-AKM" (and from 48 to 72 missiles to them), and also, perhaps, 50 MANPADS "Igla" and to 400 missiles to them.

Apparently, the Ukrainian instructors, at least partially, were served by Ukrainian instructors, including during the war. In addition, thirty “Grom” MANPADS were received from Poland and up to one hundred SAMs to them, from Israel - one battery of the newest Spider air defense system (five or six launchers). Ukraine also delivered a significant number of various radars to Georgia, including the most modern ones.

The Georgian Navy had two missile boats (the aforementioned Greek-French Combat-2 type with an Exochet anti-ship missile and a former Soviet 206MR ave. With anti-ship anti-ship missile P-20) and several patrol boats.

Although the military draft was formally preserved in Georgia, the combat units were completed with contract servicemen, that is, they were a “professional army”.

On the whole, the Georgian armed forces for 4,5 have gone very far from the state of the “legal gang formation” of the times of Shevardnadze. Nevertheless, their potential was not enough to establish effective control over Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and even more so for the war with Russia. But the decisive role in the further development of events was played by the subjective factor.


Joint exercises of the Georgian military and NATO based on Vaziani, 2009 year. Photo: Nina Shlamova / AP


Saakashvili was very dizzy from the successes he really had in politics and economics, and he was distinguished by obvious psychological instability, complete incompetence in military matters and faith in the West. He believed that he had created a modern professional network-centric army that would not only instantly crush the armed forces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, but, if necessary, would easily win over the Russian armed forces. And in the case of some extremely unlikely unforeseen circumstances, of course, NATO will immediately come to the rescue. By the way, there is nothing ridiculous in this, because even here the majority of the population are absolutely sure of the advantage of the “professional army”, of the gigantic combat power of NATO and its aggressive essence. Another thing is that the president of the country should not be guided by philistine ideas, but must see reality.

At the beginning of the Georgian offensive on the night of 7 on 8 of August, almost all of the military and political leadership of South Ossetia fled from Tskhinvali to Java. However, Georgian troops were bogged down in street battles with virtually unmanaged Ossetian militias. And then the Russian army entered the battle.

Contrary to stable opinion, Russian troops had no numerical superiority on land. There were very big problems in the air. During the August war, the Air Force of the Russian Federation for the first time in its practice, faced with modern air defense, although not very large in size. The results of this collision were rather sad for us: one Tu-22М, one-two Su-24, three-four Su-25 were lost. True, the share of the Georgian air defense of them exactly accounted for only Tu-22M and one Su-24. There are significant discrepancies about other lost cars. It is possible that all the Su-25 were shot down by their own. The Georgians did not lose a single combat aircraft and only three helicopters, all on the ground.

Nevertheless, the war ended with an almost instantaneous crushing defeat of the “modern professional” army of Georgia. Already on the third day of the war, the Georgian army, in fact, simply collapsed, ceasing all resistance and throwing a huge amount of weapons, ammunition and fully serviceable equipment. Which, by the way, was confirmed by a well-known fact, which we now consider unfashionable or even indecent: with other things being equal, the draft army always defeats the hired (“professional”) at least due to a much higher motivation of the personnel. The Russian army will die only in one case - if it is nevertheless made “professional”. That's when she will never win anyone.

And NATO, of course, didn’t lift a finger to save Georgia. This could have been very easy to guess in advance if it were not guided by propaganda, but by a real study of the activities of the alliance.

During the war, Georgia retained the Air Force, which, however, did not help it at all. The Georgian naval forces ceased to exist, it was not the Black Sea fleet that was destroyed in the mythical "naval battle", but the landing force that captured Poti from land and exploded both missile ships and most of the patrol boats in the harbor. At the same time, Georgian sailors simply fled.


Georgian soldiers in Gori, Georgia, August 10 2008. Photo: Sergey Grits / AP


Despite the relative success, she suffered very substantial air defense losses in Georgia. In particular, five Osa air defense systems were captured by Russian troops, as well as, apparently, an entire Buk-М1 battalion with full ammunition, which had just been unloaded in Poti from a Ukrainian ship, but never put into a combat position. Therefore, not two fought, but only one division, set earlier, he shot down a Tu-22M. Probably, one Spider air defense missile system was captured. Apparently, all C-125 divisions were somehow suppressed. It was spent or lost the vast majority of missiles. Therefore, by the end of the five-day war there was little left of the Georgian air defense. The loss of ground forces amounted to at least 46 tanks (possibly from 80 to 100), approximately forty infantry fighting vehicles and fifteen armored personnel carriers, around 30 guns, mortars and MLRS. For comparison - Russia lost three or four tanks, 20 BRDM, BMP, BMD and BTR, there were no losses in artillery. At the same time, the losses were almost completely compensated, since a significant part of the equipment lost by Georgia was not destroyed, but was seized by Russian troops without any damage.

Currently, the Georgian Armed Forces consist only of ground forces, which include five infantry, two artillery, one engineer, one air defense and one aviation brigades (the latter is the former Air Force). The Navy was abolished, several surviving patrol boats were brought to the Coast Guard. Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia in the post-war period, from where twelve self-propelled guns, guns and MLRS were received (we can say that Georgia compensated for the losses in artillery due to this), as well as ten Su-25 attack aircraft, which were in non-flying condition and intended for disassembly for parts for 12 Georgian attack aircraft. Georgia received no more equipment from anywhere. Accordingly, there is no question of any restoration of its potential. Now in service there are about 140 tanks (mainly T-72, there are also twenty-thirty T-55), about 200 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, about 250 self-propelled guns, guns and MLRS. All this equipment, including the “new” acquired in Bulgaria, is still Soviet in origin and production time, only aged 5 more years. It is impossible to build a modern network-centric army on its basis, which Saakashvili did not understand. Own defense industry certainly will not fix it. Although the country went to the Tbilisi aircraft factory, where Su-25s were manufactured in Soviet times, Georgia naturally failed to establish their production without Russian components. In the past three years, the Russian BMP “Lazika” and BTR “Digori” have been created at the Tbilisi Tank Repair Plant, but they cannot strengthen the country's military potential either in quantity or in quality.

Of course, the admission of Georgia to NATO is out of the question at least for purely formal reasons: it has not settled its territorial problems. The real reason is that neither the United States, nor Turkey, nor, especially, Europe, are going to not only fight, but at least get the theoretical risk of a war with Russia because of some wild highlanders. And, all the more, there can be no talk of Georgia itself returning Abkhazia and South Ossetia by military means. The talk popular in some media that “Georgia is preparing for revenge” is nothing more than cheap propaganda. The country does not have the resources to create truly powerful and capable armed forces, NATO is not going to provide any assistance to Tbilisi. It is difficult to assume that the aged philosopher Margvelashvili, the new president of Georgia, and the young businessman Garibashvili, her future prime minister, will begin preparations for a war with Russia.

The Georgian army was created for the sake of one war and lost this war. Therefore, now the army is meaningless and useless. But do not give it up because of this.
Author:
Originator:
http://rusplt.ru/policy/armiya-gruzii-do-i-posle-voynyi.html
126 comments
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  1. Beibit
    Beibit 15 November 2013 08: 29
    +2
    I don’t understand something ... why my planes shot down my own?
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 08: 41
      31
      Because there is no interaction between aviation and ground forces. This was and is the Achilles' heel, communication and coordination systems.
      1. Spectator
        Spectator 15 November 2013 09: 51
        12
        Quote: Goodvin55
        Because there is no interaction between aviation and ground forces. This was and is the Achilles' heel, communication and coordination systems.

        But what about the recognition system of a friend or foe ?? there is no need for coordination - everything should automatically be.
        Moreover, if the Georgians did not lose a single plane, the question arises - did they lift them at all into the air?
        These statements are strange that their air defense shot down. An investigation of each incident is necessary.
        1. Goodvin55
          Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 11
          10
          Quote: Spectator
          everything should automatically be

          It must be, but no. After the first Chechen one, it is hard to blame our troops for trying to bring down their planes.
          1. Chicot 1
            Chicot 1 15 November 2013 10: 29
            +2
            Quote: Goodvin55
            After the first Chechen war, our troops are hard to blame for trying to bring down their planes

            Are you talking about anything at all? ..
            1. Goodvin55
              Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 34
              +5
              Quote: Chicot 1
              What are you talking about?

              About the fact that the people of employees have since developed a fear that our people will fly in now and break up our positions together with the personnel.
    2. RPG_
      RPG_ 15 November 2013 09: 12
      +2
      Because they were flying.
      1. Spectator
        Spectator 15 November 2013 09: 54
        +1
        Quote: RPG_
        Because they were flying.

        that's for sure - who flew - they shot him down! )))
        Not your own - do not care! the main thing is to train air defense, arrange a no-fly zone: D
        1. ed65b
          ed65b 15 November 2013 12: 29
          19
          What's the connection? Mobile officers were in contact. "Alla your mother, where are you?" A crowd of ragamuffins on antediluvian technology. But the Russian soldier is a Russian soldier, timid Georgians fled.
          1. Drosselmeyer
            Drosselmeyer 15 November 2013 15: 27
            10
            Well, what can I say if General Khrulyov himself asked the journalists for a satellite phone to contact the troops ...
        2. alexxxxx
          alexxxxx 6 December 2013 09: 05
          +1
          There is nothing to sell our equipment abroad. And then they get confused where ours are and where the enemies are ...
          we are wetted with our weapons. So I think!
    3. Bongo
      Bongo 15 November 2013 10: 20
      11
      Motorized rifle operators of Igla MANPADS, and these were mostly conscripts, carried out launches at any Su-25 that were in the air. Moreover, there were no visual differences between our cars and the Georgian ones.
      1. Goodvin55
        Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 31
        +5
        That's just the needle should not have allowed to shoot at their own because of the target designation block 1L14.
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 15 November 2013 10: 36
          +7
          So they used one technique, the Georgians also had "needles". The friend or foe system for MANPADS operators did not work. And they were not used centrally.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 15 November 2013 13: 40
            +1
            Quote: Bongo
            the Georgians also had "needles".

            the Georgian officer said that the weakest point was precisely the lack of portable MANPADS ... there were only a small number of Arrows-1 ... before the war, funds were allocated for the purchase of IGL..but the Minister of Defense stole or didn’t buy them .. says the PKK to shoot at SU-25 .. by the way .. a young contractor, according to their claims, shot down 3-4 things .. he is often shown on TV
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 15 November 2013 13: 59
              +7
              В
              Quote: smersh70
              the Georgian officer said that the weakest point was precisely the lack of portable MANPADS ... there were only a small number of Arrows-1 ... before the war, funds were allocated for the purchase of IGL..but the Minister of Defense stole or didn’t buy them .. says the PKK to shoot at SU-25 .. by the way .. a young contractor, according to their claims, shot down 3-4 things .. he is often shown on TV

              You are apparently too gullible, you need to listen less to the "Georgian officer". "Needles" and other MANPADS were in sufficient quantity. Read at your leisure:
              http://topwar.ru/31594-avgust-2008-goda-voyna-v-vozduhe.html

              In addition, the Strela-1 is not a MANPADS.
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 15 November 2013 14: 14
                0
                Quote: Bongo
                In addition, the Strela-1 is not a MANPADS.

                I will) this news ... maybe a tank or a fighter .... laughing
                I talked with many eyewitnesses and participants in these events .. and everyone almost talked about the insufficient number ... MANPADS ... by the way above I meant RPGs ....
                1. Bongo
                  Bongo 15 November 2013 14: 24
                  +6
                  What to talk about? All your competence in your comments, about the "truthfulness" of the "Georgian officer" is a separate conversation.
                  In the photo Strela-1, you will continue to assert that this is MANPADS? laughing
                  1. smersh70
                    smersh70 15 November 2013 16: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: Bongo
                    In the photo Strela-1, you will continue to claim that it is MANPADS


                    In general, he is illiterate and AFRICA UNLAMITED .. wassat ..on photo - 9A31 combat vehicle with 9M31 missiles 9K31 Strela-1 anti-aircraft missile system
                    and it was created at first as a portable one. The portable complex "Strela-2" is used in the battalion level of the air defense, and the self-propelled "Strela-1" - in the regimental, hi ..
                    1. Bongo
                      Bongo 16 November 2013 12: 47
                      +4
                      You should at least read "Wikipedia" or something. To carry such nonsense ... how can you put Strela-1 into TPK from Strela-2?
                      Not to mention that their GOS is different, or will they confess that they are not right weakly?
                    2. badger1974
                      badger1974 16 November 2013 23: 51
                      +4
                      Arsenal Kiev was never able to bring to mind the two-sector (hi and uv) aiming head, so they still flop into the IR, carrying all sorts of "friend or foe" - the direction is clear, by ... who will be the victim
                      1. Bongo
                        Bongo 17 November 2013 02: 15
                        +3
                        During my service in the late 80s and early 90s, I had a chance to study Strela-2M. To provide air defense, our RTB had two MANPADS and two ZPU-4. Strla-1 was considered obsolete by that time.
                2. zyablik.olga
                  zyablik.olga 16 November 2013 18: 01
                  +7
                  Tovarisch from Azerbaijan was very impressed by the story "Georgian officer" and will even claim that Strela-10 is also MANPADS
                3. badger1974
                  badger1974 16 November 2013 23: 39
                  +2
                  MANPADS arrow-1 is not in nature, there are MANPADS-2 and 2M and 3m, the guidance and identification units are Ukrainian products of the Kiev enterprise "Arsenal", and Igla is the Invincible (Russia), a very big difference, especially alien, therefore, it so happened that the Needle and Arrow are very difficult to distinguish, but the guidance and equipment of friend or foe are completely different, and cannot be the same
              2. Bongo
                Bongo 15 November 2013 15: 25
                11
                I remembered how a few years ago in Egypt, a guide-translator, "an eyewitness and participant in the events" - a former military man who once studied in the USSR, when asked: why did they lose in 1973? Saying that I was "not in the subject" began to tell what kind of bad weapons weapons were supplied from the USSR. Soon after a couple of leading questions about his military specialty, for some reason he practically ceased to understand Russian.
                1. smersh70
                  smersh70 15 November 2013 16: 59
                  -3
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Soon after a couple of leading questions on his military specialty, for some reason, he practically ceased to understand Russian.


                  See the link above and learn the materiel .... fellow
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 16 November 2013 12: 50
                    +6
                    What kind of materiel, if the SAM and MANPADS cannot be distinguished? I have everything in order, not one year in the 11-army air defense.
            2. Goodvin55
              Goodvin55 15 November 2013 14: 13
              +2
              Maybe he damaged 3-4 pieces, which is not the same thing that he shot down.
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 15 November 2013 14: 28
                +7
                In your rich imagination. These "fairy tales" can only be believed by those who have not seen MANPADS in the vicinity and judges only by the films. In reality, it is not the easiest weapon to use with a lot of restrictions.
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 16 November 2013 23: 58
                  +1
                  how the Vietnamese rested the arrow on the ground, growth and mind were given at first as victims, but then !!!!!
              2. smersh70
                smersh70 15 November 2013 17: 21
                -4
                Quote: Goodvin55
                Maybe he damaged 3-4 pieces, which is not the same thing that he shot down.


                the translation is there ....
                1. Goodvin55
                  Goodvin55 15 November 2013 17: 35
                  +3
                  Well, it means just propaganda ..
                  1. Blackgrifon
                    Blackgrifon 15 November 2013 21: 21
                    +3
                    Quote: Goodvin55
                    Well, it means just propaganda ..


                    Still not propaganda - bullshit - the Su-25 has very good survivability, and then a Georgian sniper with a PKK appears and there are already 4 attack aircraft. Interestingly, but they have a sniper-mortar, which tank columns destroyed from a mortar with one shot, no? :)
                    1. ed65b
                      ed65b 15 November 2013 21: 45
                      +4
                      Quote: Blackgrifon
                      Quote: Goodvin55
                      Well, it means just propaganda ..


                      Still not propaganda - bullshit - the Su-25 has very good survivability, and then a Georgian sniper with a PKK appears and there are already 4 attack aircraft. Interestingly, but they have a sniper-mortar, which tank columns destroyed from a mortar with one shot, no? :)

                      There is! Mishiko personally strangled tie 2 columns strangled laughing
                2. Ramadan
                  Ramadan 16 November 2013 02: 05
                  +4
                  Of course, I understand everything, but if you do the production, then you need to somehow convincingly ...
                  In the meantime, according to Stanislavsky "I do not believe!"
                  And even the glasses on them do not look so foolish ...
                3. badger1974
                  badger1974 17 November 2013 08: 22
                  +1
                  onboard numbers of downed planes are indicated? or is it the Ukrainian "Buki" shot down? or "friendly" fire (two Su-25s were shot down with their Russian needles)? anyway, this is propaganda, if the guy on the ATV would have defended his Grady, this would be a hero, but as they say "on the side of the heat", the Grads were lost, the tanks were lost, the Armed Forces of Georgia turned to stampede - this is a defeat, and now only barking heroes from the booth ...
        2. 7958
          7958 15 November 2013 13: 59
          +1
          [media = http: //] In none of the video launches of the Needles in Ossetia, the antenna of the interrogator 1L14 is not visible and this technique of the 70s has long been outdated
    4. denson06
      denson06 15 November 2013 11: 57
      +2
      Including thanks to this, now in our Armed Forces are engaged in the "Friend-Alien" system. This is a problem not only for the Russian Armed Forces.
    5. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 15 November 2013 13: 18
      +3
      Quote: Beibit
      I don’t understand something ... why my planes shot down my own?


      By radio portrait.
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 17 November 2013 09: 54
        -1
        because in Tbilisi they not only repaired the Su-25, but also produced it under the USSR, therefore the interrogator "friend or foe" was forcibly turned off-echo of combat psychosis
    6. zloi_dekabr
      zloi_dekabr 15 November 2013 13: 22
      +2
      Because it is Khramchikhin! Well, whoever I would love to put in fertilizer would be him! Expert fucking!
    7. Su24
      Su24 15 November 2013 21: 01
      +1
      Khramchikhin)) A fan of proving that our main enemy is not NATO, but China, which will attack us literally the next morning.

      The fact that Georgia is preparing for revenge is really nonsense.
  2. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 15 November 2013 08: 52
    +9
    Yes, that they wanted it and got it. Only how many innocent people died or crippled due to one fool.
  3. Goodvin55
    Goodvin55 15 November 2013 09: 01
    +6
    The most important thing that causes concern: why not suppressed air defense systems? The loss of the Tu-22M and Su-24 is of course a blow to the pride of our Air Force, but it could be worse. And if the enemy were more serious in terms of air defense? We don’t seem to know the truth about the shot down by our or not Su-25, we recall the sad experience of supporting our troops in Grozny in 95.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 17 November 2013 08: 39
      +2
      there they did not think that the Ukrainian "Buks" were with serious Ukrainian operators, but it should be noted that our Ukrainian air defense officers did not fire at NATO air forces in Libya (well, two planes are not shelling, it happened) when our Ukrainian pot-bellied uncles were mistaken for Hochma snipers
  4. King
    King 15 November 2013 09: 18
    +3
    Thank you for the article. Say what you like, but the Russian army taught the Georgians a good lesson by finally curtailing the "cuckoo" of Saakoshvili. It remains to be hoped that the new people at the head of Georgia will be smarter and will really care about their people.
    1. tolyasik0577
      tolyasik0577 15 November 2013 11: 45
      +5
      we really taught a lesson. not only the Georgian Armed Forces, but NATO know ours, we are not fully organized in ground operations.
      1. Free Island
        Free Island 15 November 2013 14: 23
        +4
        Quote: tolyasik0577
        we are not fully organized in ground operations

        that was always the strength of the Russian army)))))) as someone said, "the Russians have no plan .. they are terrible with their improvisation!")))
        1. alone
          alone 15 November 2013 22: 31
          +5
          and there was no improvisation there))) 1 motorized rifle brigade and a bunch of explosives on armored cars practically participated in the attack. The Georgians simply underestimated the operational situation. They did not take into account the fact that the Russian troops would confront them. The operation was planned only against Ossetians. The maximum that they thought , this is what will be air strikes, and therefore the air defense was ready. Mishiko was shocked to learn about the Russian army. The opening of the second front in Abkhazia played a destructive role. The top demoralization demoralized the whole army. Here and all success. But Russia made conclusions from this war. After the war, they immediately started talking about reforms in the army. It was. The commanders and the General Staff realized that with a serious opponent, the outcome of the war could be different.
  5. King
    King 15 November 2013 09: 18
    +2
    Thank you for the article. Say what you like, but the Russian army taught the Georgians a good lesson by finally curtailing the "cuckoo" of Saakoshvili. It remains to be hoped that the new people at the head of Georgia will be smarter and will really care about their people.
    1. TRex
      TRex 15 November 2013 11: 56
      +7
      Thank you for the article? For what? In the rank of "Deputy Director of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis" to operate with terms "in a mythical naval battle" (which by the way was), "Perhaps one SPIDER anti-aircraft missile system was captured," one or two Su-24, three or four Su- 25 ", etc., etc. .... What kind of institution is this? They analyzed, analyzed, and so for five years and did not analyze
      But the term "network-centric army" is mentioned twice.

      "You tell me: how much sausage to hang ... in grams?"
      In 1995-1996, he worked in the analytical structures of the electoral headquarters of the party "Our Home - Russia" in the elections to the State Duma, then the headquarters of Boris Yeltsin in the presidential election.
      In 1995-1998 he worked in the structures of the All-Russian Union of People's Houses (VSND) (head - first S.A. Filatov, then S.A. Popov, one of the founders and leaders of "United Russia"), later - in the Moscow branch of the VSND as an ordinary employee.
      In 1999, he participated in the election campaign of the Union of Right Forces and Sergey Kiriyenko in the election of deputies of the State Duma and the mayor of Moscow.
      He has been working at the Institute for Political and Military Analysis since its creation in January 1996 on the basis of the information-analytical service of the headquarters of the party "Our Home - Russia". Head of the analytical department of the institute, author and leading institute database on the political situation in the regions of Russia.
      The areas of activity are domestic policy at the federal and regional levels, foreign policy, issues of military development and the armed forces in Russia and abroad.

      This analyzer did not even serve urgent.
      1. Goodvin55
        Goodvin55 15 November 2013 12: 12
        +4
        There was a fight, the question is, what exactly did ours sink there?
        And all these can be, etc. from a lack of reliable information, it simply does not exist.
        Read other articles by the author, this is the most rainbow)
        1. TRex
          TRex 15 November 2013 13: 15
          +7
          But the day before the war:On August 7 of 2008, the day before the outbreak of war in South Ossetia, Alexander Khramchikhin stated that he excludes the scenario of an armed conflict:
          There will be no Georgian offensive, this is absolutely ruled out. ... There will be no war in any case. Apparently, the goal of Georgia is to destabilize the situation in South Ossetia so that as many people as possible run away from there to Russia. This is done in order to weaken the republic militarily, economically and psychologically.
          - Experts: There will be no war in South Ossetia - Russian News - REGNUM


          Him who pays the salary ??? Scoundrel, rogue ... Divorced them - immeasurably.
        2. Geokingxnumx
          Geokingxnumx 15 November 2013 19: 55
          +3
          Quote: Goodvin55
          There was a fight, the question is, what exactly did ours sink there?

          was not! those named ships that sank "In battle" were really sunk in the port of Poti! Kutaisi and ishe two!
      2. Flooding
        Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 26
        +4
        Quote: TRex
        Thank you for the article? For what? In the rank of "Deputy Director of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis" to operate with terms "in a mythical naval battle" (which by the way was), "Perhaps one SPIDER anti-aircraft missile system was captured," one or two Su-24, three or four Su- 25 ", etc., etc. .... What kind of institution is this?

        I agree. The article is unintelligible.
        In addition, after the war, there were deliveries to the Georgians of armored vehicles from Israel, the USA, and Turkey (see below), which the author forgot to mention.
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 17 November 2013 08: 51
          +1
          tanks, MANPADS arrow-3m, and air defense systems Buk (with operators) - from Ukraine, Yuha-cattle, air defense operators under pressure forced to go there
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 17 November 2013 20: 36
            -1
            who is minus me-Yukhov cattle
  6. rolik2
    rolik2 15 November 2013 09: 20
    14
    why not suppressed air defense systems

    Because you should not underestimate ANY enemy. It must be considered stronger, well, at least equal in strength.
  7. RussianRu
    RussianRu 15 November 2013 09: 33
    +2
    Posted by Alexander Khramchikhin, Deputy Director of the Institute for Political and Military Analysis

    Auto RU. If you already indicate your profession, to make the article more authoritative. Please provide accurate data. And something "possibly", "or", etc. One of the two, or a bad deputy director, or not a deputy director at all. Article minus.
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 09: 40
      +3
      There is no exact data, even official sources vary in losses, not to mention the causes of the losses. That is why all sorts of centers are forced to analyze and compare various data and make assumptions based on them.
      1. RussianRu
        RussianRu 15 November 2013 09: 54
        +1
        Assumptions are not a fact, but only an opinion about the fact.
        1. Goodvin55
          Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 14
          0
          The phrasing "may" "or" and assume an opinion of the facts.
          1. RussianRu
            RussianRu 15 November 2013 10: 50
            +2
            Will explain. If you indicate your position, you are simply obliged to rely on facts. If you express your opinion, then you do not need to trump your activity. Everything is simple. Or do not you see the difference?
            1. Goodvin55
              Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 58
              +1
              It is his job to make assumptions based on facts, and to sign his articles, this is a mandatory rule when publishing in collections and other publications.
              At the same time, I do not share the position of Mr. Khramchikhin, but specifically in this article there is nothing criminal, although I agree with you its level is low.
              1. Evgeny_Lev
                Evgeny_Lev 15 November 2013 17: 31
                +1
                It is his job to make assumptions based on facts


                Haha

                Is it like that?
                One plane shot down - it's a fact
                I suppose that they shot down four more - is this his job?

                Smyshno
                1. Goodvin55
                  Goodvin55 15 November 2013 17: 39
                  +3
                  Tell me, in fact, how many aircraft irrevocably lost the Russian Federation and how many were damaged? Only for sure! And how much of what was lost? This is really funny ...
  8. Kirzhak
    Kirzhak 15 November 2013 09: 40
    0
    Georgians have not lost a single combat aircraft

    Strange ... I myself remember the footage of those days, shown on several channels, how they shot down an airplane over the liberated Tskhinval. It seems to be claimed that this is a Georgian attack aircraft.
    PS: Cool photo from the exercises smile Type: That's how we fled in 2008?
    1. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 15 November 2013 10: 09
      0
      lost, and almost everything on the airfield.
      1. Geokingxnumx
        Geokingxnumx 15 November 2013 19: 32
        0
        Quote: Oberst_71
        lost, and almost everything on the airfield.

        a few en-2 (2 pieces)
        1 Mi-24 (the one already had no resource! He already flew his own)
        and a few mi-xnumx if I don't bother
        1. Oberst_71
          Oberst_71 15 November 2013 21: 48
          +2
          Something like this. All in color.
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 17 November 2013 08: 55
            0
            ATP for the card, downloaded, do you mind?
    2. Geokingxnumx
      Geokingxnumx 15 November 2013 19: 31
      +3
      Quote: Kirzhak
      Strange ... I myself remember the footage of those days, shown on several channels, how they shot down an airplane over the liberated Tskhinval. It seems to be claimed that this is a Georgian attack aircraft.

      yes but it was Russian Su-25! brought down their own.
      The last flight of the Georgian Su-25 was 8 August 8 o'clock in the morning! and that was the only ones
  9. malikszh
    malikszh 15 November 2013 09: 43
    +2
    It was necessary to be a tornado, Iskender, Georgia’s infrastructure, airports, factories, bases and much more will bomb the points of weight !!! The lesson would be everything !!!
    1. Alexander I
      Alexander I 15 November 2013 10: 39
      +4
      The Russian army can not fight with the civilian population
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 15 November 2013 13: 57
      -2
      Quote: malikszh
      It should have been a tornado, Iskender, Georgia’s infrastructure will be bombed by points

      well, it’s been bombed and how else ... especially Burn .... what did you think ... the Russian army shot chtoli from slingshots .... what do you suggest ... maybe you also had to throw a vigorous bomb bully
      1. Evgeny_Lev
        Evgeny_Lev 15 November 2013 17: 33
        +4
        Who has "nailed" so many stars to you?

        To myself, or what?
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 15 November 2013 17: 40
          0
          Quote: Evgeny_Lev
          Who has "nailed" so many stars to you?

          it's you for me .. even if you learn to press the "quote" button ... bully and if to me ... then smart people. have tried hi he’s not rolling himself here .. read the rules ....
          1. Our
            Our 20 December 2013 21: 02
            +1
            Well, such a time. I must say what I like.
      2. badger1974
        badger1974 17 November 2013 08: 58
        0
        on ... a nuclear bomb, I have relatives there, but they didn’t support Georgians in the conflict
  10. Goodvin55
    Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 00
    +4
    Quote: Kirzhak
    how a plane is shot down over a liberated Tskhinval
    It was a Su-25BM pilot
    Oleg Terebunsky shot down by Ossetian militias. Loss of the Su-24 2-3 units. one of them seems to be his own. In short, the devil will break his leg ...
  11. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 15 November 2013 10: 01
    +5
    Quote: Goodvin55
    Because there is no interaction between aviation and ground forces. This was and is the Achilles' heel, communication and coordination systems.

    I quote the conversation told me by the Pskov paratrooper ...
    In the Kremlin, at the awarding of the Heroes of Russia, a paratrooper and a pilot meet:
    Paratrooper: -Sorry Bro, I brought you down!
    Pilot: Come on, it happens!
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 06
      +4
      Quote: Prapor Afonya
      Paratrooper: -Sorry Bro, I brought you down!
      Pilot: Come on, it happens!

      If they bring down their own aircraft it’s bad but not fatal, worse when the aircraft hammer their positions and columns ...
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 15 November 2013 10: 28
        +2
        Quote: Goodvin55
        Quote: Prapor Afonya
        Paratrooper: -Sorry Bro, I brought you down!
        Pilot: Come on, it happens!

        If they bring down their own aircraft it’s bad but not fatal, worse when the aircraft hammer their positions and columns ...

        This is worse than ever! So the interaction of troops is "zero point x ... chrome bolt of tenths." And this is most often not just "bad", but precisely "fatal" ...
        Or again, a dozen times we will step on the same rake? ..
        1. Goodvin55
          Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 38
          +1
          Quote: Chicot 1
          So the interaction of troops is "zero point x ... chrome bolt tenths"

          Here is the answer. They should not shoot down their own, aviation bomb their own, but this happens.
        2. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 15 November 2013 19: 12
          +4
          The issue of interaction has been acute in Russia since the time far preceding Ivan the Terrible. There was, you know, such a thing - parochialism. In what, that is, place are you and your family standing. The meaning is this: if at least once in a period of time accessible to human memory, boyar Serebryany obeyed boyar Petrov - that’s all. Always, in all cases, all descendants of the Silver are subordinate to the descendants of the Petrovs. It was hellish hell ... Not one battle was lost by the Russian troops, while the boyars figured out who would go under whom.
          It seems that something has changed a little? As if ... It's just that the situation is mirror-like now. The question is - who will be responsible for the decision? Accordingly, no one categorically wants to take any decisions on any orders, with the exception of the order to go and receive a medal "For Valiant Sitting in the Headquarters". And even more so some kind of reaction to the cries of the "neighbors"! Why would the valiant flyers listen to some grimy tankers? And away we go, some into the forest, some for firewood, some freezes the tail into the hole ...
          There is only one recipe, proven over millennia, to resist this phenomenon, which is characteristic of all armies in the world. The authority of the higher authority must be overwhelming. In the literal sense of the word. In the shameful Japanese campaign, Rennenkampf "merged" the operation, as he personally was on bad terms with another general. Quarreled, so to speak ... for thousands of soldiers' lives. And what? A nicho. The courtiers were drugged. The result of such a military command is known, and the rule naturally ended in disaster.
          But Joseph Vissarionovich from his military leaders did not hesitate to ask laughing, and the "courtiers" knew that one could intercede only on business. "Out of sympathy" - go with a little train, with your sympathy, on the tundra ... paa shirokaai darroge .... Therefore, if the Red Army was losing, it was because everyone did not know how to act correctly. And this army very quickly overcame all sorts of problems, including problems with interaction. How they fought then and how Stalin ruled is also well known.
          Conclusion - we have a good army. But in soft, listless, extremely bad hands. It will not be from this good. You have to take it hard, the army is, damn it, not a spoon ...
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 15 November 2013 10: 12
    +2
    Generally speaking, Georgia, as an aggressor, should have been banned from having its own army, or sent to it by supervisory inspectors from other countries, otherwise they’re getting rid of it, America will throw weapons at its sixes and they will attack someone again!
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 10: 16
      +5
      The problem is that the West does not consider Georgia an aggressor.
      1. builder
        builder 15 November 2013 16: 01
        +4
        On September 30, the nearly ten-month work of the Tagliavini Commission ended with a report that was handed over to Brussels to representatives of Russia, Georgia, the EU, the OSCE and the UN.
        The main conclusion is the initiator of the August 2008 war in the Caucasus - Georgia!
        Russia could show "disproportion" in the use of force fool
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 15 November 2013 13: 43
      -18 qualifying.
      Quote: Prapor Afonya
      In general, Georgia, as an aggressor, should have been banned from having its own army

      looking from what point of view to look .... smile and who else is the aggressor .... winked
  14. Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 15 November 2013 10: 17
    12
    Maybe there are participants in those events. but the fact is that all our attack aircraft (with the exception of the Tu-22) were shot down on the second approach to the target. Although the briefing was clear. One run. And there. Not a landfill. EW didn’t work at all, because Zelin did not heed the Air Force Commander’s admonitions about the use of electronic suppression. By the way, the chief of the Air Force EW then quit. They say he launched his cap in Zelin. Space exploration summed up. And by the way, GPS. In general, the flyers did a good job, but Mother Infantry, as always, helped everyone out.
  15. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 15 November 2013 10: 24
    +8
    With Georgia, its army and war everything is more or less generally and generally understood. I want to focus a little on the other. Namely...
    Bulgaria became the only arms supplier to Georgia in the post-war period

    Here are the "brothers" ... Sold and resold not the first (and not the last!) Time. With brothers like these, it's better to be an orphan ...
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 15 November 2013 12: 11
      +5
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Here are the "brothers" ... Sold and resold not the first (and not the last!) Time. With brothers like these, it's better to be an orphan ...

      they are Bulgarians. after Shipka they were always against us ... but what about the "brothers" -Ukrainians to be? after all - as well as the more modern two divisions of Buk-M1 air defense systems received from Ukraine (each has three batteries, each has two launchers and one ROM, 16 missiles each), from 6 to 18 Osa-AK and Osa- AKM ”(and from 48 to 72 SAMs to them), as well as, possibly, 50 Igla MANPADS and up to 400 SAMs to them.

      Apparently, Ukrainian equipment was at least partially served by Ukrainian instructors, including during the war.

      here it’s time to remember the Bible, about Cain and Abel ....
    2. Flooding
      Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 22
      0
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Here are the "brothers" ... Sold and resold not the first (and not the last!) Time. With brothers like these, it's better to be an orphan ...

      Chicot 1, let me disagree with you.
      Here, for example, how is this news for you: Moldovan authorities implicated in deliveries of weapons to terrorists? Details at http://www.grenada.md/post/mold_vlasti_zameshany_v_postavkah_orujiea_terroristam


      But what is the fault of Moldovan citizens here? In addition to those, of course, that warm their hands on this.
    3. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 15 November 2013 21: 34
      +1
      According to various sources, over the past few years, the United States has delivered 10 UH-1H Iroquois helicopters, 2 Point patrol boats and spare parts, 230 units of various vehicles, including 15 Hammer cars, 101 radio stations, to Georgia technical means of search and clearance of explosive devices, equipment for detecting hidden cameras and listening systems. In addition, in 2006-2008, the United States allocated Georgia a total of $ 30,6 million in non-repayable loans under the program "Providing Military Assistance to the Military for Foreign Countries", and another $ 10 million to prepare for NATO membership. More than 8 Georgian servicemen have been trained through various American training programs. In accordance with bilateral agreements, the United States plans to transfer 15 S-70A multi-role helicopters to Georgia, of which 7 will be delivered to Georgia in 2010, eight in 2011.
      From Bulgaria, the Transcaucasian republic received 14 units of 120-mm mortars, 12 anti-aircraft guns ZU-23-2M, four ZSU-23-4 "Shilka", 500 missiles for MANPADS "Igla", 150 ATGM "Konkurs", "Kornet" and one and a half thousand missiles for them, 300 units. RPG-7, four Su-25 aircraft, small landing ships "Guria" and "Atiya", 10 thousand boxes with Kalashnikov assault rifles, RPG-22 and ammunition, a batch of ammunition with a total weight of over 650 tons. This included about 1 million rounds of small arms ammunition, 578 rounds for an 82mm mortar, 70 rounds for a 120mm mortar, and 1100 hand grenades. This does not limit the Bulgarian-Georgian military cooperation. It is expected to supply 250 missiles for the Faktoria ATGM, 50 thousand shells for 122-mm D-30 howitzers and other military products with a total weight of up to 220 tons.
      Hungary also did not stand aside and handed over 66 armored personnel carriers, 1186 AMD-65 machine guns, 44 PKM machine guns, 600 rounds to 82-mm mortars, 5 thousand smoke grenades and a large number of 7,62x39 mm caliber ammunition.
      Georgia received assistance from Greece in the form of a Dioscuria missile boat, Iveria and Mestia patrol boats, 3 thousand uniforms, 10 RACAL ORN-4720 radio transmitters and 60 mortars totaling more than 184 thousand euros. It is planned to deliver two corvettes and a missile boat of the Combatante-2 project of French production.
      Transmitted to Georgia by Latvia and Lithuania, and this is mainly radio equipment and 14 thousand units of Kalashnikov assault rifles, nothing compared to what was received from Turkey. This country provided 60 RN-94 armored personnel carriers, 2 UH-1 Iroquois helicopters, 2.500 MP5 A1 (K) assault rifles, 1.500 G3 A3 assault rifles, 500 T-40 grenade launchers, 4.000 pcs. 122 mm rockets, 20.000 pcs. 155-mm shells, 21,6 thousand rounds of 12,7x99 mm and 320 thousand rounds of pistol 9x19 mm for $ 169,5 thousand, a large number of hand grenades, anti-personnel and mortar mines, a patrol boat "Kutaisi", equipment communications and navigation, radio equipment, 7 sets of satellite GPS navigation system, a batch of Land Rover, Man vehicles, communication and navigation equipment, 10 sets of light diving equipment and other military equipment and equipment for a total of $ 730 thousand
      Against this background, the military aid received from France looks less modest. So far, this country has supplied one radar station to Georgia. However, soon another batch of weapons is expected in the form of 4 Mirage 2000 aircraft, 48 Mistral MANPADS, 25 ATLAS mobile complexes equipped with Mistral-2 missiles, SAMP / T air defense systems with Aster-30 missiles and 2 corvettes type "Govind".
    4. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 15 November 2013 21: 35
      +2
      But the Czech Republic did not stint and provided Georgia with 120 T-54 (T-55) tanks, 55 T-72 tanks, 24 units. 152 mm Dana self-propelled howitzers, 36 units 122 mm howitzers D-30, 25 units 120-mm mortar M-75, 6 122-mm MLRS RM-70, 200 MANPADS "Strela-2M" and a huge batch of ammunition. In 2004 alone, Georgia’s military depots were replenished with 3,5 million cartridges of 7,62 mm caliber.

      Israel supplied 4 Hermes-450 and Skylark unmanned aerial vehicles, 100 portable mine clearance charges for laying passages in H-PEMBS anti-tank minefields, 50 portable mine clearance charges for laying passages in L-PEMBS anti-personnel minefields, 500 sets of camouflage networks. It is planned to supply tanks and armored personnel carriers, Sufa vehicles, small arms and electronic intelligence equipment.
      Georgia also received assistance in equipping the national armed forces from Bosnia and Herzegovina. So, 45 units were delivered. 120-mm mortars М75, 25 pcs. 82-mm mortars М69А and 500 262-mm rockets for MLRS M-87 'Orcan'.
      Serbia did not stand aside. This Balkan country provided Georgia with 20 million cartridges of 7,62x39 mm, 370 pistols, 50 pump guns, 3570 pyro cartridge, 390 122 mm SMOKE M-60 shells, 1 thousand.
      125 mm HEAT-T M-8P1 rounds, 1,69 thousand 125 mm APFSDS-T M-88 armor-piercing projectile shells, 76,56 thousand M-80 main charges for 60 mm NEM-J3T, 13 thousand main charges M-45RZ for 82-mm mines NEM-68R1T, 15 thousand signal mines SHORT CARTRIDGE ILLUMINATING.
      In Ukraine, Georgia acquired 31 T-72, 20 BTR-80, 40 BMP-2 tanks, 12 Akatsia self-propelled howitzers, 10 L-29 aircraft, 9 Mi-24 helicopters, 2 Mi-8MT, 2 Mi-4, 10 The Osa-AKM air defense system, the Kolchuga-M RTR complex, spare parts for helicopters, the Tbilisi missile boat (formerly Konotop), the Georgi Toreli patrol boat (search and rescue boat of project 205P), 2 radar 36D6 -M, 2 engineering vehicles of the IMR-2 obstacle, 2 BAT-2 track-laying machines, a batch of KrAZ-6510 vehicles, 40 tons of small arms ammunition. P
  16. klip07
    klip07 15 November 2013 11: 15
    11
    they would dance yes vinchik drink ....
  17. Witch
    Witch 15 November 2013 11: 18
    +7
    Quote: Chicot 1
    Here are the "brothers" ... Sold and resold not the first (and not the last!) Time. With brothers like these, it's better to be an orphan ...


    Nothing personal only business (s) ...
    Although it was joked in the Union that the Bulgarian elephant is the best friend of the Russian elephant, and the NRB is the 16th union republic, history shows that the Bulgarians were always against us, which was during the time of Svyatoslav, which was later (the first half of the 20th century) ...
  18. svp67
    svp67 15 November 2013 11: 33
    +5
    The Georgian army was created for the sake of one war and lost this war. Therefore, now the army is meaningless and useless. But do not give it up because of this.
    How strange it sounds, they lost the battle, but the war is still going on, even if it has passed from "hot" to "sluggish current" stage, but the issue of Abkhazia and Ossetia has not yet been resolved ... that means there will be other battles. We also need to prepare and carefully "watch" the "restless" neighbor ....
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 15 November 2013 13: 47
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      It sounds strange, they lost the battle, but the war is still on,

      I agree !!!! .. and more. the author writes that the army fled .... the only thing true is that the Navy suffered the most ... this is how they were smashed ... and the Navy will sound proudly ... there were small boats ... which could not be sent to Batumi .. .about the army ... there was an order to retreat to Tbilisi ... so all the brigades left their directions and retreated to Tbilisi ... even one was pierced into Afghanistan ... and what ... right now the Afghans will also say that they defeated the Georgians. ..a if you look at the thermal sign ... Abkhazia and South Ossetia were already controlled by Russian peacekeepers and after the war, Russian troops remained there anyway ...
  19. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 15 November 2013 11: 38
    +1
    The fact that our planes were shot down by our air defense is unverified information, possibly disinformation.
    Quote: Oberst_71
    Maybe there are participants in those events. but the fact is that all our attack aircraft (with the exception of the Tu-22) were shot down on the second approach to the target. Although the briefing was clear. One run.

    Once at the second run-it’s obviously shot down from the Georgian side. At the first approach, everyone figured out, their own attack aircraft or strangers.
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 12: 06
      +2
      The Ossetians could have shot down friendly fire. On the other hand, who will tell you: "Yes, they themselves flunked their plane" will immediately lose the pursuit ..
    2. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 15 November 2013 13: 02
      +1
      Of course Georgians. and how not to get on the plane at the second run. let's say almost everything on the second run.
      1. Goodvin55
        Goodvin55 15 November 2013 14: 27
        0
        The question is long, but if you sit for a long time and analyze all the information, it turns out that due to the fault of the Georgians less of our aircraft died than from friendly fire ... And the more I study this issue, the more I am convinced of this unfortunately .. So, apparently, from friendly 3 Su-25 and 1 Su-24 died, as well as 2 damaged Su-25 as well as several UAVs.
  20. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 15 November 2013 11: 55
    0
    Quote: Chicot 1
    With Georgia, its army and war everything is more or less generally and generally understood. I want to focus a little on the other. Namely...
    Bulgaria became the only arms supplier to Georgia in the post-war period

    Here are the "brothers" ... Sold and resold not the first (and not the last!) Time. With brothers like these, it's better to be an orphan ...


    Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Baltic states, Ukraine - you read the comments on the site, because everything was sold around Russia. Is it really? And if suddenly and so - then another question - why?
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 20
      +4
      Quote: And Us Rat
      Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Baltic states, Ukraine - you read the comments on the site, because everything was sold around Russia. Is it really? And if suddenly and so - then another question - why?

      Postoperative syndrome is a common result of rejection. The wobble of nationalistic ideas inflated by incompetent local authorities and interested external forces. The weakening of a great power.
      Everything is on the surface, just a little look into the story.
    2. Oberst_71
      Oberst_71 15 November 2013 13: 03
      +1
      nothing history spirals. will be asked back. fact.
    3. badger1974
      badger1974 17 November 2013 09: 08
      0
      the miserable situation of the military in these countries (except for the numerous generals and their servants), the military in Ukraine has a salary of barely 200 bucks (from 1800 hryvnias to 2400) -and what will this be enough for when undeveloped? and if the air defense system operator doesn’t know anything anymore, and then strain-go earn 5000 gruel plus an additional 1000 for the asset, like this
  21. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 02
    +3
    Quote: article
    In the post-war period, Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia ... Georgia received no more equipment from anywhere. Accordingly, there is no question of any restoration of its potential.

    Turkey:
    70 APC Ejder in 2009
  22. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 03
    +1
    Quote: article
    In the post-war period, Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia ... Georgia received no more equipment from anywhere. Accordingly, there is no question of any restoration of its potential.

    Turkey:
    about 30 Cobra armored vehicles in 2009
  23. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 06
    0
    Quote: article
    In the post-war period, Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia ... Georgia received no more equipment from anywhere. Accordingly, there is no question of any restoration of its potential.

    Israel:
    several Rafael Wolf armored vehicles in 2009
  24. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 12: 10
    0
    Quote: article
    In the post-war period, Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia ... Georgia received no more equipment from anywhere. Accordingly, there is no question of any restoration of its potential.

    U.S.:
    several dozen armored M1151 and M1151A1 (HMMWV) in 2009-2011.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Brother
    Brother 15 November 2013 12: 10
    0
    The title of the article is slightly inconsistent Georgian Army: before and after the warit matches Georgian Army: before and after diarrhea.
    Thanks for the article, put +.
  27. ed65b
    ed65b 15 November 2013 12: 31
    +4
    How is this why the Georgian army? What about military parades?
  28. avt
    avt 15 November 2013 12: 31
    +3
    Article frankly 3,14zdabolskaya negative ,, author Alexander Khramchikhin, Deputy Director of the Institute of Political and Military Analysis "----- Ponov and ranks for the ruble, but information and analysis for a penny is not enough. The author is frankly pissing to show incompetence in the subject, hence all these -----
    Quote: Russian
    And something "possibly", "or", etc.
    ----- Well, he doesn’t have any specific information, and he is reluctant to work with sources, even with open ones, because he didn’t bring a single link to the statements on official speeches by the representative of the General Staff, in hot pursuit, or to media publications. So, he piled up what he heard on TV and was able to suck from a finger. So what kind of analyzer is this?
  29. bistrov.
    bistrov. 15 November 2013 13: 01
    +2
    The author says in his article: "serious economic successes under Saakashvili." This is what, if not a secret? Have you built a couple of modern buildings, like the modern Ministry of the Interior and a couple of hotels, and all this for foreign loans? Or completely replacing the Georgian police with the police? Moreover, the principle itself causes bewilderment: - to fire everyone one size fits all, without understanding whether you are right, guilty, a professional, or a bribe taker. And instead of them, recruit young amateurs who only know how to politely trump? Or maybe he provided all Georgians with work, a decent salary? Probably just from such "economic successes" Georgians run away from the country wherever they look.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 15 November 2013 13: 55
      0
      Quote: bistrov.
      serious economic successes under Saakashvili ".

      with it, only the budget of Georgia grew from $ 1 billion to $ 8 billion .... solved all the problems with light .. gas .... repaired and built roads .. and this in the absence of oil and gas and other minerals .....
      Quote: bistrov.
      Ruzin police to the police? Moreover, the principle itself is perplexing: -fire everyone under one comb, without understanding, you are right, guilty, professional, or a bribe taker. Instead, they recruit young amateurs who only know how to politely trump

      YOU and US would be such young policemen. Come to Georgia and see that they can not only trump ... but also do their work ... thanks to this work, crimes are nullified ... it became easier for citizens to solve their problems ... .try to give a bribe or offer him a bribe ... then you will see how they trump wassat
      Quote: bistrov.
      Or maybe he provided all Georgians with work, a decent salary

      Did he promise to build communism fellow these problems do not exist only under socialism)))) but to minimize them ... he could improve the welfare of his citizens ... maybe not to the end ... but he tried ..... the main thing is to work .. don’t take it yourself and do not let your subordinates take ..... hi
    2. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 16: 42
      +2
      Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, Saki's success in the social and economic sphere in terms of "before and after" is really good. And in terms of the police, it really differs significantly from ours in Georgia for the better. But this does not negate the fact of the Saki regime's dibbled foreign policy.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 15 November 2013 21: 47
        0
        Success? and what is the state debt of Georgia?
        1. alone
          alone 15 November 2013 22: 39
          0
          4 billion, of which about 1,5 billion owe us.
    3. badger1974
      badger1974 17 November 2013 09: 21
      +2
      Godmother with Yushchenko and Co., in addition to ex-president Viti, is Kolya Yushchenko, who famously heated his hands through arms supplies, and not only to Georgia, but also to Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Libya (with kadafi), Indonesia, and so on, sold everything, and the tank industry dies
  30. Yeraz
    Yeraz 15 November 2013 13: 14
    +5
    Quote: bistrov.
    The author says in his article: "serious economic successes under Saakashvili." This is what, if not a secret? Have you built a couple of modern buildings, like the modern Ministry of the Interior and a couple of hotels, and all this for foreign loans? Or completely replacing the Georgian police with the police? Moreover, the principle itself causes bewilderment: - to fire everyone one size fits all, without understanding whether you are right, guilty, a professional, or a bribe taker. And instead of them, recruit young amateurs who only know how to politely trump? Or maybe he provided all Georgians with work, a decent salary? Probably just from such "economic successes" Georgians run away from the country wherever they look.

    Do not talk nonsense. When Misha really, people began to live better, there was a real gasification of the country, which was not there before, the pension at least became more or less, Batumi made it a tourist center in a short time and the whole of Azerbaijan with Armenia dragged there because in a plane and train and to go to rest is cheaper than to sleep around Sevan or the Caspian Sea. In comparison with Shevarnadze, successes on all fronts and you need to be blind so as not to see this.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 15 November 2013 21: 49
      0
      Quote: Yeraz
      Quote: bistrov.
      The author says in his article: "serious economic successes under Saakashvili." This is what, if not a secret? Have you built a couple of modern buildings, like the modern Ministry of the Interior and a couple of hotels, and all this for foreign loans? Or completely replacing the Georgian police with the police? Moreover, the principle itself causes bewilderment: - to fire everyone one size fits all, without understanding whether you are right, guilty, a professional, or a bribe taker. And instead of them, recruit young amateurs who only know how to politely trump? Or maybe he provided all Georgians with work, a decent salary? Probably just from such "economic successes" Georgians run away from the country wherever they look.

      Do not talk nonsense. When Misha really, people began to live better, there was a real gasification of the country, which was not there before, the pension at least became more or less, Batumi made it a tourist center in a short time and the whole of Azerbaijan with Armenia dragged there because in a plane and train and to go to rest is cheaper than to sleep around Sevan or the Caspian Sea. In comparison with Shevarnadze, successes on all fronts and you need to be blind so as not to see this.

      Are you talking about Turkish Batum, where do Georgians work with a load of prostitutes?
  31. Yeraz
    Yeraz 15 November 2013 13: 19
    +6
    It’s necessary to treat the author of the campaign. Not only he doesn’t understand and was too lazy to prepare the material, the phrase also killed. Saakashvili was sure that he would defeat Russia. I understand that Misha is considered a moron to Russia, but his only mistake was that he didn’t I would have thought that Russian troops invaded Georgia and not enough, people all over the world and in Russia itself couldn’t offer much, but hoped to defeat the millionth army stuffed with Iskander, Topol and many other primabasas with the 35 thousandth army, the elite part of which was in Afghanistan. delirium of the author.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Garyk701
          Garyk701 16 November 2013 20: 21
          +1
          Well, at least for the purpose of protecting their country and citizens. Reread the text of the Georgian military oath, it probably indicates why.
          1. Geokingxnumx
            Geokingxnumx 16 November 2013 22: 16
            +1
            Quote: Garyk701
            Well, at least for the purpose of protecting their country and citizens. Reread the text of the Georgian military oath, it probably indicates why.

            I'm talking about an attack) not about defense!
            and on oath this will in all countries protect His Citizens and the earth!
  32. Stasi
    Stasi 15 November 2013 13: 38
    +9
    The main reason for the defeat of the Georgians is the low morale of the army. As for our losses, they were caused by the lack of interaction among the military branches. This problem remains relevant until now. I would like to hope that the lessons of the August war will be fully taken into account and proper order and interaction will be put in place. The new president of Georgia, of course, will not plan to return Abkhazia and Ossetia by force, he will act more cunningly. As you know, a broken army will learn a lot, especially since the West will help in the supply of weapons and equipment, as well as military specialists and instructors. So you have to keep your ears open.
  33. Prutkov
    Prutkov 15 November 2013 14: 24
    +3
    Yeah. The combat resistance of the professionals was much lower than the conscripts. But the problem of interaction between the branches of the armed forces in the RA has not been resolved. The organization of command and control of troops also tended to zero. As always, the soldiers and junior officers pulled out. Generals for such a war do not give out medals, but give them a hat.
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 17: 42
      +1
      How many conscripts participated in the operation, and how many contractors?
  34. Prutkov
    Prutkov 15 November 2013 14: 24
    0
    Yeah. The combat resistance of the professionals was much lower than the conscripts. But the problem of interaction between the branches of the armed forces in the RA has not been resolved. The organization of command and control of troops also tended to zero. As always, the soldiers and junior officers pulled out. Generals for such a war do not give out medals, but give them a hat.
  35. Crrusader40
    Crrusader40 15 November 2013 15: 24
    0
    Let's get to the point that Ukraine will attack us
  36. kush62
    kush62 15 November 2013 16: 55
    +3
    Owing to the improvement of the economic situation and curbing the “grassroots” corruption, financing of the Armed Forces has increased even several times, but by orders of magnitude.

    It turns out that not the Americans were stuffing with bucks, but the economy flooded up.
    1. Goodvin55
      Goodvin55 15 November 2013 17: 43
      0
      Our departments are also stuffed with bucks and the salary is already good in the authorities, but improvements are not visible ....
  37. Aydar
    Aydar 15 November 2013 17: 37
    -5
    The article is biased. Of course, the Georgian army in its human and technical composition hardly corresponds to the Russian division (not to mention the army corps), but for a small country in that war the Georgian army is quite capable. There are dwarf armies of the Baltic countries, there is Poland where anti-Russian sentiments are strong, the problem will be when these armies (countries) will be combat-ready, the military spirit will be strong (that's all, the attitude to the military in the Baltic states is much more respectful and prestigious than in Russia), they will get out of NATO control and begin independent, coordinated actions with each other, this will resemble something like a dog hunting for a bear.
    1. Sour
      Sour 15 November 2013 19: 19
      +7
      Will they storm Moscow?
      Quote: Aydar
      it will be reminiscent of something like a dog hunting for a bear.

      Rather, it will resemble an attempt by a naked member to crush a hedgehog. If this attempt is a group attempt, then this will not change anything.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 15 November 2013 21: 58
        +1
        Quote: Sour
        Will they storm Moscow?
        Quote: Aydar
        it will be reminiscent of something like a dog hunting for a bear.

        Rather, it will resemble an attempt by a naked member to crush a hedgehog. If this attempt is a group attempt, then this will not change anything.

        Sour change the post to "bare ass to sit on a hedgehog and a member to cut the blade of an ax." And so everything is correct. hi
    2. builder
      builder 15 November 2013 20: 41
      +1
      get out of NATO control and begin independent, coordinated actions
      Oh, these tales, oh, these storytellers. laughing
    3. kush62
      kush62 17 November 2013 18: 56
      0
      it will be reminiscent of something like a dog hunting for a bear.

      They are not dogs, but mongrels. They will bark while the overseas owner gives the command "voice".
  38. Flooding
    Flooding 15 November 2013 17: 53
    +3
    Quote: Aydar
    the problem will be when these armies (countries) are combat-ready, the military spirit is strong (everything goes to that, the attitude to the military in the Baltic countries is much more respectful and prestigious than in the Russian Federation), get out of NATO control and begin independent, coordinated with each other another action, it will resemble something like a canine bear hunt.

    Apart from minor troubles like Nazi marches and Russophobic demarches, no major troubles can be expected from the Baltic. They don’t take lapdogs for dog hunting, even if they bark very loudly.
    Poland, after all, is of a different weight category, I would not have equated its BC with the Baltic.
  39. moskal68
    moskal68 15 November 2013 19: 21
    0
    Well, even if he shot down, so what? We have these dofig planes! In addition, they will make new ones instead of those shot down. In general, I do not believe this video.
  40. AlekseiM
    AlekseiM 15 November 2013 19: 40
    +2
    Which, incidentally, was confirmed by the well-known fact, which is now considered unfashionable or even indecent in our country: ceteris paribus, the draft army will always defeat the mercenary ("professional") at least due to the much higher motivation of the personnel. The Russian army will die only in one case - if it is nevertheless made “professional”. Then she will never defeat anyone.

    I don’t know how I fuck you from this statement. What are the motivations of conscripts that are fundamentally different from the motivations of contract soldiers, no one will tell? Will a trained contractor equipped to fight worse than a conscript of a boy who has come to the army for a year? stupidly scared and run away from the position?)
  41. Arkan
    Arkan 15 November 2013 19: 43
    0
    Georgia does not have a modern army; instead, Georgians have a male choir.
  42. Cat
    Cat 15 November 2013 20: 17
    0
    I read the article, and outraged comments about the blatant "accuracy" of the data in the article in general and the author's competence in particular. For the sake of interest, I found the site of this very Institute of Political and Military Analysis, to see what kind of office it is. As it turned out, it is quite an ordinary sharashkin office, quote:
    The Institute for Political and Military Analysis (IPVA) is an independent, non-governmental organization formed in 1996. "
    Well, what kind of "independent" and "non-state" organizations were massively opened in the 90s - I think everyone knows. Accordingly, the analysis of theirs, in terms of reliability, does not always reach even the level of the notorious "BBS radio" (baba babe said)))

    In general, an article, if it has any thread, is perhaps a work of art, but not analytical. Something like this.
  43. admrall
    admrall 15 November 2013 20: 54
    +1
    only I got the impression that the author somewhere breaches, and deliberately !!! in particular about the allegedly mythical sea battle!
  44. Guardes
    Guardes 15 November 2013 21: 27
    0
    Quote: GEOKING95
    Quote: Goodvin55
    There was a fight, the question is, what exactly did ours sink there?

    was not! those named ships that sank "In battle" were really sunk in the port of Poti! Kutaisi and ishe two!

    Good evening everyone! Respected! It is possible to dispute for a long time where and how the indicated units of materiel of the Georgian Navy were sent to the bottom. But, your statement that they were sunk in the port ... i.e. infantry ... does not do honor to the Georgian Navy at all. Although, if it is winged infantry, then of course ... "In the hardest battle with the Russian Airborne Forces unit, the Georgian Navy died heroically !!!" ... This is a showcase !!!
    1. Geokingxnumx
      Geokingxnumx 16 November 2013 11: 43
      0
      Quote: Guardes
      Good evening everyone! Respected! It is possible to dispute for a long time where and how the indicated units of materiel of the Georgian Navy were sent to the bottom. But, your statement that they were sunk in the port ... i.e. infantry ... does not do honor to the Georgian Navy at all. Although, if it is winged infantry, then of course ... "In the hardest battle with the Russian Airborne Forces unit, the Georgian Navy died heroically !!!" ... This is a showcase !!!

      the ships were without a crew! I do not seek Heroism I seek truth)!
      1. Geokingxnumx
        Geokingxnumx 16 November 2013 16: 10
        0
        oh yes Kutaisi, I had in mind the name of the ship about not a city)
  45. ed65b
    ed65b 15 November 2013 22: 01
    +1
    Yes, in general, why discuss something, slightly gave zvizdyule. We give to everyone, regardless of the size and condition of the aircraft. TIME TO REMEMBER.
  46. elizbari
    elizbari 15 November 2013 22: 02
    +3
    gruzia pateriala tolko 12 tankav v boiu, ostalnie bili zaxvaheni v bazax, su 24 bilo sbito ne mene dve, su 25 ne mene hetire, odno sbiliruskie i obiavili gruzinskim, smeshno kagda gavariat chto rasia ne poteriali fusta xrulova, naverna net, ni odno gruzinskoe art ustanovka ne bilo unichtojeno na pole boe, vse bili zaxvacheni v lesu, gruzinskie pioni vistrelili 150 snariadov na kajdi stvol
  47. Psyx
    Psyx 15 November 2013 22: 53
    0
    Quote: RBLip
    they are Bulgarians. after Shipka they were always against us ... but what about the "brothers" -Ukrainians to be? after all - as well as the more modern two divisions of the Buk-M1 air defense missile system received from Ukraine (each with three batteries, each with two launchers and one ROM, 16 missiles each), from 6 to 18 air defense missile systems “Osa-AK” and “ Osa-AKM "(and from 48 to 72 missiles for them), as well as, possibly, 50 Igla MANPADS and up to 400 missiles for them. Apparently, the Ukrainian equipment was at least partially serviced by Ukrainian instructors, including during war. then it's time to remember the Bible, about Cain and Abel ...


    What does brotherhood and betrayal have to do with it ... it's just business. Russia itself today supplies modern weapons to Azerbaijan, and tomorrow they will kill the Armenians with these weapons ... although it seems like Armenia has always been an ally of Russia in the Caucasus.
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 15 November 2013 23: 22
      +1
      Quote: Psyx
      Russia itself today supplies modern weapons to Azerbaijan

      I’ll answer essentially .. Russia is selling .. we are buying for real money ... and where are the third states ...
      Quote: Psyx
      and tomorrow they will kill the Armenians with these weapons.

      not buy for parades .. fellow and it will kill those who will creep into our territory .. however, those who have already become too long .... if they do not grow wiser ... hi
      Quote: Psyx
      It seems like Armenia has always been an ally of Russia in the Caucasus.

      Well, we are a strategic partner of Russia ... and so .....
      1. Psyx
        Psyx 16 November 2013 00: 14
        0
        Well, I’m talking about this ... what is the fault of Ukraine that Georgia shot down Russian planes purchased from Ukraine air defense systems?
        1. Geokingxnumx
          Geokingxnumx 16 November 2013 16: 06
          0
          Quote: Psyx
          Well, I’m talking about this ... what is the fault of Ukraine that Georgia shot down Russian planes purchased from Ukraine air defense systems?

          ) nothing) they forget that before 2006 they also gave weapons or spare parts for our equipment (Su-25 mi-8 mi-24)!
  48. go
    go 15 November 2013 22: 54
    +7
    The article is somehow clumsy. the author compares the professional and draft army by the example of the Georgian and Russian army, and from the success of the Russian army concludes that the draft army is better and the professional Russia will be destroyed. Rave. This is the same as comparing a thread of the Moscow private security company with the Chinese army. Before that, Russia had two other wars ... with a different result. Although in Georgia everything was far from smooth. To compare apples with apples, and eggs with eggs, you need to compare, for example, the US Army during the Vietnam War (call) and after (prof). After the transition to the professional basis, the losses decreased significantly.

    The point is not the name, but the approach to business and training. But my opinion is: you can’t prepare a professional for complex equipment or an athlete-special forces soldier for work in the mountains or at sea for 1 year, or even 2 if you immediately leave after that. After all, in the USSR pilots were also not recruited by draft, but paid them a salary, because they have high qualifications, i.e. it was a service by profession. Therefore, parts of the post. readiness must be professional, for the mob reserve you can save the call, and those who have served under the contract, they also remain in reserve.

    And what to talk about - to take a man in his thirties, who monitors his health and goes in for sports, has the qualifications and a head on his shoulders, and a boy 18-19 years old ... who is of more use? If generals need boys who will be cannon fodder or free meek labor (at their dachas), then this is a problem for generals and those who cannot control adults and professional people, and a problem for the state and the army, which has been built so far by force time how it could be built on such a principle, when people would treat the service as their prof. duties, and not as a link to the galleys. Hence, including hazing, and often the attitude to the soldier as a cheap consumable.
  49. PUHACH
    PUHACH 16 November 2013 00: 20
    +2
    Quote: smersh70
    and it will kill those who will creep into our territory .. however, those who have already become too long .... if they do not grow wiser ...
    ..... Well, your territory ..... and you yourself like your territory? ..
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 16 November 2013 03: 20
      +2
      Quote: PUHACH
      Do you like your territory yourself? ..

      we do not choose our homeland ... but she .... hi fellow
  50. bublic82009
    bublic82009 16 November 2013 23: 41
    +1
    maybe in time Georgia will be absorbed by Turkey. quiet expansion is already going on there. for this reason, the Georgian army is not armed.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 17 November 2013 09: 23
      0
      will not receive, Armenia will not allow this to happen, I will not explain why, you will understand