Military Review

Next year, Russia and China will begin discussing a joint project of a wide-body aircraft.

Next year, Russia and China will begin discussing a joint project of a wide-body aircraft.On October 23, Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin spoke about the future plans of the state regarding the development of civil aviation. According to the official, already in the next 2014, Russian specialists will begin to discuss design and production work as part of a new wide-body aircraft project. At the same time, the project is supposed to be carried out jointly with the Chinese aviation industry.

Rogozin noted that there is a need for a wide-body passenger aircraft in both Russia and China. Cooperation with China will be the most convenient option for Russia, since it will ensure the profitability of producing large batches of new aircraft. With a large population and large plans for the development of various industries, China is a promising partner. In addition, Rogozin stressed that the new project requires financial investments from the Chinese side, since Russia does not want to pay the entire project only from its budget.

The commercial prospects of the future wide-body aircraft are not yet completely clear. Thus, Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin understands that the Russian-Chinese liner will have to fight for its market share. The official recalled that the sector of long-range wide-body aircraft is now almost lost for the Russian aircraft industry. About 80% of traffic on such aircraft accounted for equipment manufactured by Airbus and Boeing. Because of this, a joint project between Russia and China, when entering the international market, is bound to meet with severe competition.

Nevertheless, the Russian government intends to initiate the development of a joint project of a wide-body airliner. A possible start of work on the Russian-Chinese project was discussed a long time ago, but only now approximate dates for the start of consultations were announced, which will help determine the main features of the appearance of a promising aircraft. At the same time, various statements about the creation of a new wide-body aircraft have been heard over the past few years.

At the end of August 2013, Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin had already raised the issue of joint development of a new passenger aircraft. Then, during the working meeting of the co-chairs of the Russian-Chinese Commission on the preparation of the meetings of heads of government, several issues were discussed. Among the topics discussed was a possible joint project of a wide-body airliner designed to operate on long-haul routes. In August, the Russian and Chinese sides came to the conclusion that it was necessary to step up work in this direction.

It is worth noting that in his August statements, D. Rogozin disclosed in detail the reasons for which it is necessary to create a new project. The Deputy Prime Minister recalled that the Russian industry is now gradually filling the mid-haul sector of airliners. The SSJ100 aircraft is already being operated and is being built in series, and the design work for the MC-21 project is also being completed. As a result, over the next few years, the Russian aviation industry will produce two types of medium-haul aircraft at once. However, modern long-haul aircraft are not built or even developed. For this reason, it is required to start creating new projects as soon as possible.

Partnership with China, according to the August statements of Rogozin, will be useful for Russia, primarily for economic reasons. The main customers of the promising wide-bodied airliner, developed only by Russian specialists, will be domestic airlines. Because of this, even by the most courageous estimates, a series of such aircraft will be limited to only a few dozen sides, which will correspondingly affect the profitability and economic aspects of the project as a whole. Attracting China, which also needs such aircraft, will help to significantly increase the number of aircraft planned for the construction of aircraft and thereby improve the main financial indicators of the project.

A promising project will be profitable for both countries. Firstly, they will get modern long-haul aircraft, and secondly, they will be able to solve existing problems of an economic and technological nature. So, Russia will be able to optimize the economic part of the project, and the Chinese aviation industry will gain important experience and master several new technologies.

Earlier it was supposed to hold a meeting of designers involved in civil aircraft projects. Based on the results of this event, it was planned to determine some of the requirements for a promising long-haul aircraft and draw up an approximate program of action. Probably, the meeting of the Russian aircraft manufacturers has already taken place and therefore it is possible to proceed to the next step - a discussion of the issues with Chinese experts.

For obvious reasons, it is too early to talk about the appearance and prospects of a wide-body aircraft, which will appear as a result of Russian-Chinese cooperation. In addition, while the timing of the program. At the moment, it is known that the first Russian-Chinese consultations, at which general issues will be discussed as part of a joint project, will only begin next year. Therefore, the mass production of promising aircraft - if the parties agree on the start of the project - will start only by the end of this decade. As for the technical and economic features of the project, they can be discussed only after Russia and China form requirements for the new aircraft. The appearance of the list of requirements for the project is worth the wait in the coming years.

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  1. Alikovo
    Alikovo 31 October 2013 08: 49
    I wonder whose idea this is.
    the situation will be like FGFA (export version of the T-50 for India): money from China, ideas from Russia.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 31 October 2013 08: 57
      In general, the topic is dumb, I would think ten times how to do business with China, or as much penetration and fusion as possible, or vice versa.
      Here I have little interest in general politics inside China, I don’t know how much they are inclined towards nationalism. If there is such a movement, then they need to be trusted with caution, they will all be robbed only by themselves, and ideas and technologies are all.
      I will not say anything yet, I can’t say concreto about my attitude to this either.
      Need more data ...
    2. kris
      kris 31 October 2013 11: 27
      long balobol was not heard.
      It seems they want to merge documentation to the Chinese under the guise.
      and in 5 years, they will sell us a clone of IL-96 with Ukrainian engines.
      1. Interface
        Interface 31 October 2013 17: 59
        Fuck, they go with their "cooperation", we ourselves have enough money and brains, and personnel, and the production chain!

        What is this schizophrenia ?! Who in general gives birth to such ideas ?! They will have any advantage in production over us, they will have more people ----------> cheaper.
        So, it turns out, we will develop it, will they produce? And as a result, we will kill our production without orders? One courage at the top, cattle, financial prostitutes, they only think about profit, but about our technological parity, ah?
        Yeah, but we are pushing a Superjet with a foreign filling in the market. am
        Good approach, in short good
        Ah yes wise man ... wise men, we will be politically correct .. yes
    3. duke
      duke 31 October 2013 15: 36
      I would understand if we would create such a project again with India, but with China ... it seems that the gentlemen in power do not want to think, or have already decided to lie under China, after the pipelines, now this is also ...
  2. tan0472
    tan0472 31 October 2013 08: 54
    "The promising project will be beneficial for both countries. Firstly, they will receive modern long-range aircraft, and secondly, they will be able to solve the existing problems of an economic and technological nature. Thus, Russia will be able to optimize the economic part of the project, and the Chinese aviation industry will gain important experience and will master several new technologies for himself. "
    In my opinion, you can conquer the world market either by releasing a better product (which is not relevant for Russia at this time), or by releasing a product of a similar quality, but cheaper (which is quite possible).
    To break into the WORLD market by pouring technology into China (supposedly to conquer the Chinese market) is, in my opinion, unwise ...
    Russia should develop high-tech production itself. The drain of technology has never led to anything good.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 31 October 2013 11: 38
      Plus to you. All technologies with high added value (the essence of high-tech industries) must be kept with you and sell only products of such industries. The maximum that they should sell from technology is the casting of wide-body anvils and sewer manholes.
      What is generally being done? Recently, the same crap was about extra-large helicopters.
      There is a Mi-26. Let them buy. Do not like it - let them plan their own from bamboo. So with large aircraft.
      Such a project is strategically unprofitable in principle.
  3. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 31 October 2013 10: 11
    In modern China, highly qualified specialists are being trained who have already begun to create high-tech products. It is difficult and prestigious to get higher education in China.
    Of course there are fears that there will appear hunveybiny. (As a joke)
    Phones, cars, planes, ships, trains, space exploration.
    What technologies are not available on the Chinese market? The Chinese annually buy nearly 20 million cars. The joint construction of a wide-body long-range aircraft is primarily an opportunity to enter the world's largest market.
    The time when the Chinese only produced passed, they began to consume.
    And it is near us.
    The significance of the American market for us is 5 times less than the Chinese.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 31 October 2013 17: 17
      To get higher education in China for a resident of Russia with an average income is only a matter of desire ...
  4. kirgudu
    kirgudu 31 October 2013 10: 14
    I don’t understand something, the USSR built good aircraft, occupied almost half of the market for them. And now rockets with India, planes with China ...

    The Chinese will see how ours will make an airplane, and they will send ours to hell.
  5. Alex
    Alex 31 October 2013 11: 25
    The whole point of joint development is that, as the author put it, "the Chinese industry will gain important experience and master several new technologies for itself." And the Chinese don't need anything from us anymore. Someone has a bad memory (or maybe, on the contrary, a good one). - the Chinese acted in the same way in the 90s. (I myself worked at an enterprise of the radio-electronic industry). So then countless letters of intent were signed, then the corresponding technologies were transferred to the Chinese "partners", the pockets of the leaders were noticeably heavy, and the Chinese "partners" after that disappeared without a trace ...
  6. fisherman
    fisherman 31 October 2013 12: 07
    I share skepticism in comments, BUT doing nothing is bad too.
  7. twister
    twister 31 October 2013 12: 43
    Chinese labor, cheap .... that’s what our cheap people want to collect new planes and hand out the saved money to the people)))
  8. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 31 October 2013 13: 57
    And let's plan plans for planning plans ... wassat
  9. FID
    FID 31 October 2013 14: 28
    Above in the comments, a member of the forum under the nickname kris has already answered the "stories about plans" Rogozin. The Chinese are being sold (transferred) documentation for the Il-96, and, possibly, for the Il-96-400. By the way, the Il-96-400 truck, with side number 96104, is already being converted into a passenger version. The range of this aircraft is approximately 12000-14000 km. A country famous for its aviation remains on the margins of the modern world ...
  10. VI Kacheev
    VI Kacheev 31 October 2013 14: 38
    Quote: SSI
    The country, which was famous for its aviation, remains in the margins of the modern world ....

    Alas, about the present position of Russia - you are right.
    1. Will D.O. Rogozin, until DECEMBER 2013, in his current position?
    2. And if not, is it worth discussing his Fantasy?
    Maybe not everything is lost, shy ?!
    With best wishes, V.I. Kacheev.
    1. FID
      FID 31 October 2013 15: 01
      I would share optimism with you, BUT ... I work in this industry. Super - a failed project, MS-21 (Yak-242) - from the same opera ... It’s painful to talk about Dalniy and strategists in general. But I try to be optimistic, I try, although, recently, somehow sadly ...
      1. VI Kacheev
        VI Kacheev 31 October 2013 16: 36
        Quote: SSI
        But I try to be optimistic, I try, although, recently, somehow sadly ...

        I agree that it’s sad nowhowever, I will try, sorry for the confusion, but to convince you that there is a lot iconic events about the end of the time of the liberals:
        1. The rats started running (an ardent liberalist Siluanov "dumped" in the USA - for more details see
        2. Red-haired Chubais "did not arise" after the TFR announced the embezzlement of 125 billion rubles in Skolkovo - Vekselberg tried to "vyakut" something - and EVERYTHING !!!
        Was this how Chubais behaved earlier and on less important issues ?! Of course, they will not be imprisoned - the example of Serdyukov and his "harem" is known to everyone. But they don't "blather" - it's already +!
        3. Thus, in the camp of liberalists confusion and panic !!! The Most Nervous Medvedev - already blunderedthat everything is bad !!!
        4. In December, the appeal of V.V. Putin to the Federal Assembly. What will he say if Yasen the collapse of the Washington consensus model - even the budget is already being shredded.
        5. Uncle Zu got a discussion with VV Putin on the resignation of Medvedev.
        6. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THE RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTER WANTS TO MAKE THE FIRST VICE-PRIME !!! Something I can’t remember that the USSR Minister of Defense combined two posts !!!
        All of the above gives me optimism - not everything is still lost, shy !!!
        It seems that in Muscovy began to act (to do the right thing) nationally oriented forces!
        Hold on, robots - THE ENEMY WILL BE BROKEN !!!
        1. FID
          FID 31 October 2013 16: 45
          In a crisis .... There will be nothing to eat.
          1. VI Kacheev
            VI Kacheev 31 October 2013 17: 14
            Quote: SSI
            In a crisis .... There will be nothing to eat.

            I agree with you it will be difficult, and perhaps even highly! Store stocks of shelf foods. Winter is coming - flour can also be stored on the balcony. Canned food and at minus 40 will not burst. Now all this is in stores - move to balconies. Then, in the spring, you can lower the garage cellar. It will be difficult - no doubt! But for mistakes, rejection of the lifestyle of previous generations - we will have to pay !!! The task is to help our children and grandchildren survive - so that the land of our ancestors does not go to the Kataez !!!
            Robots, this is OUR CROSS - WE WILL CARRY!
            1. VI Kacheev
              VI Kacheev 31 October 2013 17: 40
              Sorry for the inaccuracy - here is the link:
              Fled to the USA Sergey Aleksashenko.
              SIMPLE, AND GOOD !!!
        2. locki
          locki 31 October 2013 21: 16
          6. THE MOST IMPORTANT IS THE RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTER WANTS TO MAKE THE FIRST VICE-PRIME !!! Something I can’t remember that the USSR Minister of Defense combined two posts !!!

          Explain the reasons for the delight?
          1. VI Kacheev
            VI Kacheev 1 November 2013 05: 45
            Quote: locki
            Explain the reasons for the delight?

            I don’t feel puppy delight, but such an appointment, if it takes place, introduces a person into the environment of liberals. I do not idealize him; he became a major general from the senior lieutenant of the reserve. However, he began his labor activity in production - it seems to be in Novokuznetsk - there is an idea about industry.
            D.R. Rogozin is more and more under TV cameras broadcasts. His biography also includes a trip to Kiev - at a time when the yellow ribbon was popular there.
  11. Su-9
    Su-9 31 October 2013 15: 24
    According to the article: there are a lot of inaccuracies in Rogozin's statements. For instance:
    - "About 80% of long-haul wide-body aircraft transportation is carried by the equipment manufactured by Airbus and Boeing." Yah? And what about 20%? The only other long-haul wide-body is IL96 - and transportation on it is below 2 tenths of a percent.
    - "... the Russian industry is now gradually filling the medium-haul sector of airliners." Without even criticizing the SSJ100, one has to be a very big balabolan to call it "mid-astral" or to assert that with 25 airplanes flying and less than 200 orders, the sector fills up.
    - "The list of requirements for the project should be expected in the coming years." - this means that the plane, if they do it, will be ready by 2020 at best.

    And about the IL-96th. To my regret, even the 400 model has no future, no matter how much you modify it. Too heavy car with two "extra engines". For this reason, the Airbus-340 is also bent (with their entire line and powerful marketing.)
    So the aircraft will need to be made completely new, competing with 787mu and 350. And this is difficult, expensive and long, and we need specialists who are now scattered in many offices.
    1. FID
      FID 31 October 2013 15: 39
      Regarding the 96-400, it seems to me that you are still a little mistaken. 4 motor planes were, are and will be (A-380, some other projects). 4 motors of lower power, they consume as much kerosene as 2 high power, the only question is the overhaul resource, which is lower at the substation, which means that the service is more expensive. Motors are our long-standing problem, but thanks to our "figures" from business and science, our promising developments are being slowed down, therefore we fly on motors "a hundred years old" ...
  12. 3935333
    3935333 31 October 2013 15: 39
    I would have invested Kudrin-bitch money (stabilization fund) in civil aviation, I think our design bureaus would have taken these denyuzhki not at 2-2,5% (invested in the US economy, how now a damn to take the babos back - no one knows, but ya money they never give, they pay percentiles - the machine works ....), and interest at 6-7% - and OUR civil liners would be built now and flew both in Transaero and Aeroflot and in ChinaAir (x. z. as they call it), and the cadres were young and their families were growing up, and so only the "Wahhabis" twig and twig .... to Syria for part of our money - capital outflow every year increases and increases, But no - we also buy airplanes from them .... to climb into the Chinese market, if our sky is full of Boeings and airbuses with all sorts of bombardiers.
  13. studentmati
    studentmati 31 October 2013 23: 36
    Wild laugh !!! And nothing more..........
  14. studentmati
    studentmati 31 October 2013 23: 36
    Wild laugh !!! And nothing more..........
  15. grapefruit
    grapefruit 4 November 2013 13: 49
    Cooperation with China ... Well, if only the head of the commission on negotiations on mutually beneficial cooperation between the Russian Federation and the PRC is Zilberkatsman with a strong Slavophilism on our side ..... The Chinese are able and love to bargain. They are able to bargain for themselves those conditions under which technology simply flows to them. If China can apply this technology only for OUR products, it will not rub. If there is a thousandth of a percent. that any technology will be applicable on the domestic market of the PRC or on the external one - carcasses of light, sushi - paddles are washed. In all sectors. In aviation - the laws of aerodynamics are the same for everyone, but technology - I KNOW HOW - can not even be shown to them. Metal formulations - in no case, test results - to be classified. Otherwise, they will buy 1-10 products, copy them, applying the obtained technologies, modify them to the necessary parameters, and - they won’t even say thank you. And they themselves do not particularly hide this. Especially when a contract was signed and it was washed in a restaurant - this is from experience with China
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