Military Review

Short Pecheneg light machine gun

72
Short Pecheneg light machine gun

The shortened Pecheneg light machine gun according to the bullpup and the usual Pecheneg



The Kovrov Plant named after Dyagtereva developed a shortened assault light machine gun "Pecheneg" according to the "bull-pap" scheme. Weapon designed for special forces. The rifle cartridge caliber 7,62 × 53 is used as ammunition.

Oleg Bochkarev, deputy chairman of the Military Industrial Commission, said that the new shortened machine gun is part of one of the options for the “Warrior” advanced outfit.

The new Pecheneg was demonstrated to the President in Izhevsk on 18 September, when he visited the Kalashnikov concern. Specifications machine gun has not been disclosed.

The new assault machine gun differs from the usual “Pechenega” in the absence of a butt, instead of it the L-shaped short underplate with a soft butt plate and a fire control stick held forward (a bullpup scheme) is installed. Due to this, the machine gun became shorter by 27 cm, lighter by 0,5 kg. The length of the trunk 65 cm, the same as in the usual "Pechenega".

The receiver itself has not changed, except for a pair of holes on its lid for fixing the soft stop under the cheek. The emphasis itself is placed under the cheek in such a way that it closes the aiming bar of the machine gun, thereby nullifying the possibility of firing through open aiming devices. For aiming fire used collimator or optical sights, mounted on Picatinny rail, located on the handle for transferring a machine gun.

The standard flame arrester has been replaced with the DTK-1P muzzle brake compensator, manufactured by milling a metal billet. DTK-1P is designed for installation on PC, PKM, PKT and “LIVER”. Reduces returns, compensates for a throw.



The gas tube in the machine gun is closed with the B-50 light-alloy forearm, which has three guides for attaching additional equipment. A tactical handle is supplied with the forearm. However, this was not without flaws - the forearm complicates access to the gas regulator, and requires complete dismantling during maintenance and cleaning of the machine gun, dirt accumulates too well. At the base of the forearm there is an attachment for the B-25U bracket, designed to install an additional handle at an angle 45 °.

But the most interesting novelty of the machine gun is fixed on the standard place of fastening of the box for cartridges. This is the trigger duplication unit. With the help of it, an additional pistol grip and trigger are brought to the center of the machine gun, which allows turning the Pechenega layout, though not into a full-fledged one, but bullfights (eng. Bullpup is a layout scheme for rifle and machine guns, in which the percussion mechanism and magazine are located in the butt behind the trigger). Thanks to this arrangement, you can increase the length of the barrel without increasing the overall length of the weapon.

A very interesting solution, since the trigger force from an additional block is transmitted to the main trigger with the help of a normal straight thrust. At the same time, the thrust itself does not interfere with firing with the help of the main trigger group, only a duplicate switch of the fuse is not yet provided. As well as the bolt group, it is very inconvenient to cock, it is necessary to break away from the butt. The handle itself has an anatomical shape with grooves for the fingers and is rubberized on top, which allows you to firmly hold it even with wet hands.



The box with cartridges is attached directly to the bracket of the backup group at an angle of 70 degrees. This situation causes a slight distortion of the machine-gun belt, which can adversely affect in battle and greatly loads the trigger guard. Yes, and install the box itself is inconvenient, especially in a hurry.

Holding this modification in your hands, you have double feelings: on the one hand, it is clear that the professionals worked, and on the other hand, there is a place to refine the design. For example, I would very much like to see a full-fledged folding butt that would allow firing from two positions - compact (pseudo bullpup) and with a full-sized butt, and the emphasis under the cheek was nevertheless worth raising higher, as well as mounting Picatinny rail, it was possible to use an open sight. Mounting the box to move to the forearm, in order to unload the backup unit trigger.

The design of the machine gun itself is very interesting and, most likely, it will be demanded by special forces as a weapon for urban combat, where the battlefield distance does not exceed several hundred meters, and the compactness of the weapon is much more important than good balance and high accuracy of the battlefield. Such a machine gun is ideal for barrage fire, or suppression of firing points from close range.

Advantages of modernization:
- compactness;
- reduced weight;
- the ability to install additional tactical modules;
- improved muzzle brake-compensator;
- duplicated trigger mechanism.

Minuses of modernization:
- lack of open sights;
- the inability to quickly replace external sights due to the use of Picatinny rail;
- the inability of the normal transfer of weapons due to the sights located on the handle;
- the fuse is located in the same place, it is necessary to be distracted by its switching, which is quite inconvenient in the absence of a normal butt;
- access to the gas regulator when installing the LCC and the lamp becomes inconvenient;
- the position of the box with the cartridges under the slope causes bending of the tape, which may cause difficulties with the supply of ammunition, and gives a strong load on the trigger guard;
- when servicing a weapon to remove dirt from under the forearm, it will have to be removed, which is a little difficult to do in field conditions and without a tool;
- inconvenient fastening of the belt on the butt;
- the impossibility of fighting with the use of the machine;
- violation of the weight distribution of weapons, which obviously will affect the accuracy of the battle, although for urban combat it is not so important.







Sources:
http://warsonline.info/strelkovoe-oruzhie/kovrovskiy-zavod-razrabotal-ukorochenniy-pulemet-pecheneg.html
http://militarist.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=91434
http://army-news.ru/2012/10/modernizirovannyj-pulemyot-pecheneg-dlya-specpodrazdelenij/
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  1. bullet
    bullet 25 October 2013 08: 39
    +4
    I wonder what kind of cartridge 7,62 * 53? Or do I not know something?
    1. Hon
      Hon 25 October 2013 09: 30
      +5
      This is a Finnish cartridge, but most likely just a typo
      1. SPLV
        SPLV 25 October 2013 12: 08
        +9
        The Finns produced and continue to produce a cartridge for the Mosin rifle. The designation of the ammunition is both 7.62x53R and 7.62x54R due to the height of the sleeve 53,50 mm (which gives 54 mm when rounded), but various manufacturers could vary this size. Mandatory "R" denotes "welt" or sleeve flange, which is one of the main design differences. Accordingly, the "jamb" is not the patron, but the author.
        1. alex-cn
          alex-cn 25 October 2013 15: 27
          +2
          The cartridge for the Mosin rifle until the end of the 20th century in all our documents went as 7,62x53. In the international designation, R (welded) was added. then the designation x54 appeared, at first I thought to distinguish the corresponding hunt. cartridge. But - it turned out for everyone why change the name of the famous cartridge - I do not know. It would be better done as a Mauser, who has options with both a welt (hunting) and a groove (army and hunting)
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  2. bullet
    bullet 25 October 2013 08: 43
    +6
    And why, talking about the Kovrovsky machine gun demonstrate photos of the body kit from the anti-aircraft guns?
    1. Demian
      Demian 25 October 2013 09: 31
      +1
      Moreover, the first photo does not Pecheneg at all.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 25 October 2013 15: 10
        +4
        Quote: Demian
        And in the first photo it’s not Pecheneg at all

        If Kovrov, then they were leading the topic of PC modernization under the name "Badger". Its result was a single machine gun AEK-999 ...
        But "Pecheneg" is entirely the brainchild of TsNIITOCHMASH ... So it really is not clear what relation the Kovrovites have to "Pecheneg". Most likely this "assault pseudo-bullpup" is derived from the "Badger" ...

        AEK-999 "Badger"
        1. bullet
          bullet 25 October 2013 15: 59
          +4
          TsNIITochmash is the leading institute for JI and b / p. He is also the developer of a number of samples, but their production is mainly deployed at other enterprises. For example, AS, BCC, PSS -TOZ, PB - former IzhMekh, 6P41 (aka Pecheneg) - ZID, etc. At the same time, ZID has a lot of practice in the design and modernization of CO, in the first place, machine guns. So, the KORD family of machine guns is a deep modernization of the NSV (T) machine gun, they also engaged in the modernization of the PKT machine gun (PKTM machine gun index 6P7M). Apparently, they were not developers of original samples.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 28 October 2013 13: 15
        0
        Next to the shortened Pecheneg - PKM (there is no casing characteristic of the Pecheneg) with a new flame arrester-compensator. By the way, the video does not show a flame when shooting, a good arrester worked. But the machine gunner did not shoot in long bursts, apparently there were problems with feeding the tape during long-term firing with the inclined location of the cartridge box on this machine gun.
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 25 October 2013 08: 44
    +3
    Kovrovsky Plant named after Diagterev developed the shortened assault machine gun "Pecheneg" according to the "bullpup" scheme. The weapon is intended for special forces. As ammunition used rifle cartridge caliber 7,62 × 53.


    Maybe I'm wrong, but apparently 7,62 * 54?
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 25 October 2013 08: 58
      +2
      Quote: aszzz888
      Maybe I'm wrong, but apparently 7,62 * 54?

      Almost a similar question, apparently the article "crept" about Chepatka request
      1. PLO
        PLO 25 October 2013 16: 06
        +1
        Almost a similar question, apparently the article "crept" about Chepatka

        Apparently the article is one big thing lol
    2. bullet
      bullet 25 October 2013 08: 59
      +1
      Naturally!
    3. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 25 October 2013 20: 53
      +1
      that's it!!!
      Characteristics of cartridges 7,62x53R and 7,62x54R [1]
      Country Cartridge Total length Sleeve length Sleeve diameter Bullet diameter
      Flag of Finland.svg Finland 7,62x53R 77,00 mm 53,50 mm 14,40 mm 7,83 mm
      Flag of Russia.svg Russia 7,62x54R 77,16 mm 53,72 mm 14,48 mm 7,92 mm
  4. Corsair
    Corsair 25 October 2013 09: 01
    +4
    But do you need a machine gun TWO handles and, accordingly, TWO triggers?
    Quote from the article:
    - the position of the box with the cartridges under the slope causes bending of the tape, which may cause difficulties with the supply of ammunition, and gives a strong load on the trigger guard;
    Yes, remove the SECOND handle, place the box "traditionally" and you will not have a "headache" not for you, not for the machine gunner.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 25 October 2013 11: 30
      +1
      Quote: Corsair
      Yes, remove the SECOND handle, place the box "traditionally" and you will not have a "headache" not for you, not for the machine gunner.

      I think this is not an option - the cartridge box will then interfere and rest against the belly of the machine gunner when shooting while standing and in the chest when shooting while lying
      1. Larus
        Larus 25 October 2013 15: 03
        0
        by the way, these boxes are rag for amerikosov, maybe it’s time for us to introduce the same ones, I think it will be easier and better
  5. Nayhas
    Nayhas 25 October 2013 09: 01
    +4
    Ribbon bending? And they believe it will not affect reliability?
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 25 October 2013 11: 35
      +2
      and even the tape is very close to the hand, the arrow is located, for example, it can catch on elements of a camouflage suit.
    2. bullet
      bullet 25 October 2013 12: 36
      +1
      To understand this, there are such types of tests as determining the traction ability of automation and checking the failure-free operation of automation in difficult conditions (including declination, elevation, and rotated in the longitudinal axis).
  6. andrey903
    andrey903 25 October 2013 09: 07
    +4
    It is necessary to make a machine gun 7,62 * 39 with tape power
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 25 October 2013 09: 20
      0
      Quote: andrey903
      It is necessary to make a machine gun 7,62 * 39 with tape power

      But why?
    2. bullet
      bullet 25 October 2013 10: 11
      +7
      You just need to return the RPD. Great machine gun !!! The Americans made a sweet of it.
      1. bazilio
        bazilio 25 October 2013 11: 37
        +2
        Quote: bullet
        It is necessary to make a machine gun 7,62 * 39 with tape power

        Yes it would be nice. But such an option may be useful.
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 25 October 2013 12: 05
        +9
        Quote: bullet
        The Americans made a sweet of it.
        They are sold as an "assault carbine", without continuous fire (prohibited by law). RPD could be returned both with a cartridge 7,62X39, and made under 5,45X39. You don't have to be smart, just return the machine gun to the army.
        1. Yemelya
          Yemelya 25 October 2013 19: 23
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          so do under 5,45X39.


          I read, I don’t remember where already, that under a 5,45x39 machine gun with tape power it is problematic to make - there is not enough power to feed the tape. Now for AK horns 4-row for 60 rounds do, I think, with such a store you can do without a tape.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 25 October 2013 20: 08
            +8
            Quote: Emelya
            I read, I don’t remember where already, that under a 5,45x39 machine gun with tape power it is problematic to make - there is not enough power to feed the tape.


            The creators of the light machine gun LAD (Lyutogo, Afanasyev, Deikina) with tape power supply under the pistol cartridge 7,62x25 mm (TT) arr. In 1942, if you were alive, you probably would have unanimously declared to those writers (whether from a word to write or from another word) whom you deigned to read somewhere that they did not have enough brains in a crock to put this into practice.

            http://topwar.ru/17072-proekt-pulemeta-lad-sssr-1942-god.html

            Quote: Emelya
            Now for AK horns 4-row for 60 rounds do, I think, with such a store you can do without a tape.


            Horns, in the sense of stores with a 4-row arrangement of cartridges? If you are talking about this, then why is a drum-type magazine bad, following the example of a "tambourine" for a RPK with a capacity of 75 rounds, made of plastic.


            1. Yemelya
              Yemelya 25 October 2013 22: 00
              -2
              Quote: Hudo
              The creators of the light machine gun LAD (Lyuty, Afanasyev, Deikin) with tape power for a pistol cartridge 7,62x25 mm (TT) arr. In 1942, if you were alive, you probably would have unanimously declared to those writers (whether from a word to write or from another word) whom you deigned to read somewhere that they did not have enough brains in a crock to put this into practice.


              I suppose that you can take the necessary power, only then the energy transferred to the pool will be unacceptably low.

              Quote: Hudo
              Horns, in the sense of stores with a 4-row arrangement of cartridges? If you are talking about this, then why is a drum-type magazine bad, following the example of a "tambourine" for a RPK with a capacity of 75 rounds, made of plastic.


              Drum is worse because it is inconvenient to carry and takes a long time to charge.
              1. Hudo
                Hudo 25 October 2013 23: 14
                +3
                Quote: Emelya
                I suppose that you can take the necessary power, only then the energy transferred to the pool will be unacceptably low.


                The moving parts of automatic small arms make a cycle of movement for the extraction of a spent cartridge case and the dispatch of the next cartridge after the bullet leaves the barrel. For weapons samples, the automation of which is based on the removal of part of the powder gases from the barrel channel, the power loss is 1-3%, which is comparable to the difference between ammunition produced by different plants or different years of production, and in practice, this is neglected due to the insignificant impact on the flight of a bullet. For weapons models, the automation of which is based on different principles (a moving barrel with its short (long) stroke, a free or half-free shutter of loss at about the same insignificant level.
                Do you really have doubts that the energy of a part of the powder gases is not enough to stretch the tape, remove the cartridge from it and carry out the extraction of the sleeve? Observe the reload handle, for example AK 74. I’ll tell you if this handle encounters an obstacle (ground, branch, part of the body of the shooter, etc.) when shooting, then its excess energy is very noticeable.


                Quote: Emelya

                Drum is worse because it is inconvenient to carry and takes a long time to charge.


                This is the case. But shifts when shooting require less because of their capacity.
                You want to say that the sector magazine with 4-row arrangement of cartridges is easy to carry? Or maybe it is convenient for loading?
                1. Yemelya
                  Yemelya 25 October 2013 23: 39
                  -1
                  Quote: Hudo
                  Do you really have doubts that the energy of a part of the powder gases is not enough to stretch the tape, remove the cartridge from it and carry out the extraction of the sleeve?


                  Here specific figures and examples are needed, then you can speculate.

                  I think if you make a machine gun under 5,45, then using recoil energy so that the barrel can be changed.

                  Quote: Hudo
                  You want to say that the sector magazine with 4-row arrangement of cartridges is easy to carry? Or maybe it is convenient for loading?


                  It is probably no less convenient to carry than 30, and in order to charge the drum, if I am not mistaken, it needs to be disassembled.
                  1. cdrt
                    cdrt 26 October 2013 00: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Emelya
                    Quote: Hudo
                    Do you really have doubts that the energy of a part of the powder gases is not enough to stretch the tape, remove the cartridge from it and carry out the extraction of the sleeve?


                    Here specific figures and examples are needed, then you can speculate.

                    I think if you make a machine gun under 5,45, then using recoil energy so that the barrel can be changed.

                    Quote: Hudo
                    You want to say that the sector magazine with 4-row arrangement of cartridges is easy to carry? Or maybe it is convenient for loading?


                    It is probably no less convenient to carry than 30, and in order to charge the drum, if I am not mistaken, it needs to be disassembled.


                    Strange approach. It turns out that with gas vent automation, a quick replaceable barrel cannot be made?
                    But what about PC / RMB, MAG, Negev NG7?
            2. Jin
              Jin 31 October 2013 23: 05
              0
              Quote: Hudo
              Horns, in the sense of stores with a 4-row arrangement of cartridges? If you are talking about this, then why is a drum-type magazine bad, following the example of a "tambourine" for a RPK with a capacity of 75 rounds, made of plastic.


              The same as the PPSh store of the Second World War, with 71 rounds of ammunition supply reliability, a colleague ...
          2. cdrt
            cdrt 26 October 2013 00: 29
            0
            Quote: Emelya
            Quote: Per se.
            so do under 5,45X39.


            I read, I don’t remember where already, that under a 5,45x39 machine gun with tape power it is problematic to make - there is not enough power to feed the tape. Now for AK horns 4-row for 60 rounds do, I think, with such a store you can do without a tape.


            Poplin, now Turner do not confirm these fears
            Yes, and 5,56 is not much more powerful. If we have such problems, order from FN, or those who Negev did ...
            Although in reality it’s the matter of the military, who never ordered such a machine gun (the same Turner was ordered by the Ministry of Internal Affairs)
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 26 October 2013 00: 28
          +1
          Quote: Per se.
          Quote: bullet
          The Americans made a sweet of it.
          They are sold as an "assault carbine", without continuous fire (prohibited by law). RPD could be returned both with a cartridge 7,62X39, and made under 5,45X39. You don't have to be smart, just return the machine gun to the army.


          Here is +100500
          Or RPD under 7,62x39 or better 5,45x39, or buy a license for Minimi under our cartridge and tape. It seems that everywhere it has proved itself very well
  7. Igor39
    Igor39 25 October 2013 09: 11
    +2
    It is necessary to give specialists for operation, they will identify flaws.
  8. albai
    albai 25 October 2013 09: 12
    +3
    Perfectly! The PC was one of my favorite machine guns, it only bothered one need to replace the barrel at the most tense moment, and a lot of dust in front of the barrel during the shooting. But Pecheneg didn’t have it. As previously wrote that with a PC the feeling of a long, with a kilometer, a whip, darling scattered through the cracks. And with Pecheneg this is generally a song, apparently. Well done Kovrovtsy!
    1. Akim
      Akim 25 October 2013 09: 35
      +3
      Quote: albai
      PC was one of my favorite machine guns,

      And what else?
      1. albai
        albai 26 October 2013 20: 40
        0
        Quote: Akim
        And what else?
        DShK "trophy Chinese", CPV on the machine, RPK, that's like everything that I had in the company.
    2. bullet
      bullet 25 October 2013 10: 18
      +1
      If we have Pecheneg, the Finns only buy RMBs.
  9. Akim
    Akim 25 October 2013 09: 20
    +4
    I wonder how a fighter under the ear is shooting from a powerful rifle cartridge. Okay, still solitary, like SVD-U. But the lineup!
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 25 October 2013 09: 29
      +3
      Quote: Akim
      I wonder how a fighter under the ear is shooting from a powerful rifle cartridge. Okay, still solitary, like SVD-U. But the lineup!

      This moment somehow "slipped away" ...
      It is possible that the situation is like a weapon with a "traditional" layout? After all, the same "own" machine gun when firing practically does not annoy with sound ... But if someone "shoots" at you "over the ear" - TRYNDETS laughing
  10. Srgsoap
    Srgsoap 25 October 2013 09: 32
    11
    Need a light assault machine gun caliber 5.45 type Belgian FN MINIMI, aka M249. Another of the advantages of this machine gun, the ability to fire both from the tape and from the shops.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 25 October 2013 11: 21
      +6
      Quote: SrgSoap
      Need a light assault machine gun caliber 5.45 type Belgian FN MINIMI, aka M249. Another of the advantages of this machine gun, the ability to fire both from the tape and from the shops.


      In the early 70s in Izhevsk, a group of designers was actively working on a project of a light machine gun based on the RPK-74 "Poplin" theme. Both standard sector shops and a capacious link tape approached him. The heavy machine-gun barrel (weighing about 1 kg versus 0,45 kg of the automatic barrel) allowed for fairly intense fire. But the military ultimately abandoned the small-bore machine gun with a combined supply of cartridges.

      The performance characteristics of the PU-21 (topic "Poplin")

      Cartridge: 5,45x39 mm.

      Initial bullet speed: 960 m / s.

      Unladen weight: 5,7 kg.

      Weight with 200 rounds tape: 8,5 kg

      Overall length: mm 1060

      Barrel length: 590 mm

      Rate of Shooting: 750 fps / min

      Capacity of shops: 30; 45 rounds

      Tape capacity: 200 rounds
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 25 October 2013 11: 24
        +7
        This option was also worked out.
        1. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 28 October 2013 13: 37
          0
          On the topic of PU can be found at http://www.dogswar.ru/oryjeinaia-ekzotika/strelkovoe-oryjie/3998-pylemet-py-21-r
          ossi.html hi
      2. Srgsoap
        Srgsoap 25 October 2013 12: 56
        +1
        Thanks for the information, I have not heard about such a development. good Here is just one thought, I think that for a light assault machine gun, it is probably better to use loose tape, but as far as I know in our small arms, loose tapes are not used.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 25 October 2013 13: 00
          +2
          Quote: SrgSoap
          I think that for a light assault machine gun, it is probably better to use loose tape, but as far as I know in our small arms, loose tapes are not used.


          In the 80s in the USSR, a tape with links made of plastic was developed - it didn’t work. I will find a link and a photo - I will post it.
    2. IS-80
      IS-80 25 October 2013 11: 23
      0
      As far as I remember in the latest versions of the M249, the ability to use stores was removed.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 25 October 2013 11: 26
        +1
        Quote: IS-80
        As far as I remember in the latest versions of the M249, the ability to use stores was removed.


      2. Hudo
        Hudo 25 October 2013 11: 29
        +1
        Quote: IS-80
        As far as I remember in the latest versions of the M249, the ability to use stores was removed.

        Sorry, missed the picture. Addressed by SrgSoap.
        1. bazilio
          bazilio 25 October 2013 11: 42
          +1
          There was still a good SETME Ameli of Spanish production
          1. Srgsoap
            Srgsoap 25 October 2013 13: 00
            +3
            Are you talking about this machine gun? I think it is nevertheless closer to a single, albeit 5.56, caliber, but basically it’s the same MG42, MG3.
            1. bazilio
              bazilio 25 October 2013 13: 18
              0
              Quote: SrgSoap
              Are you talking about this machine gun? I think it is nevertheless closer to a single, albeit 5.56, caliber, but basically it’s the same MG42, MG3.

              Yes, it’s the entot trunk. Screw the forearm and / or tactical handle to it and the assault machine gun. in mass and dimensions is similar to the same minimi. but at the same time a higher rate of fire.
              1. Srgsoap
                Srgsoap 25 October 2013 16: 10
                +3
                Well then, "NEGEV" is better. It is produced both with a standard barrel and a shortened one for urban battles, it is important that the barrels are quick-changeable. Uses both tape and regular stores. I remember there some kind of cunning gas regulator for the rate of fire, I don’t know in more detail. It is possible to conduct single fire.
                1. And Us Rat
                  And Us Rat 8 November 2013 05: 54
                  0
                  The regulator for fastening the bipod on the gas outlet, 1100v \ m for the tape and 800 for the store. Also recently released NG7 for 7.62 while maintaining the dimensions.
            2. Per se.
              Per se. 25 October 2013 13: 34
              +3
              Quote: SrgSoap
              but basically it’s the same MG42, MG3.
              Looks like "Amelie" only externally, it is a machine gun with automatic semi-free shutter with a slow rollback, and the MG-42 and its post-war version MG-3, the principle is different - the recoil of the barrel (short stroke). “Amelie” is more compact and lighter, and, if we compare it with “German”, then Heckler and Koch NK-23 are structurally closer to it.
              1. Srgsoap
                Srgsoap 25 October 2013 15: 59
                +2
                Yes, you are right, but nevertheless the roots are from there .... and on it as well as on MG3 for changing the rate of fire there were two types of shutters of different weights. The pace is from 1000-1200 to 800-850, if the memory does not change.
                1. Per se.
                  Per se. 25 October 2013 22: 29
                  +1
                  Indeed, the Spanish company CETME has German roots, since it was founded by a group of German engineers from the Mauser company in the mid-40s. The "Amelie" uses interchangeable bolts, light (for a rate of fire of 1200 rounds per minute) and heavy (850-900 rounds per minute), the MG-42 itself has a rate of fire of only 1200-1300 rounds per minute. The "Amelie" itself was developed in 1982, and, rather, "spun off" from the CETME mod. Assault rifle, the Spanish machine gun was originally created for the 5,56X45 cartridge.
    3. tracer
      tracer 26 October 2013 05: 59
      +1
      This is a song and not a machine gun. Very well established in real military operations. Lightweight and compact, quick-fire, reliable ... In general, a song and not a machine gun. I didn’t shoot myself from it, but I turned the twist in my hands. A good thing.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  11. makarov
    makarov 25 October 2013 09: 35
    +5
    When they try to make something out of a classic military weapon using the dubious usefulness of the scheme, including "..L-shaped short under-attachment ..", then in the end it turns out to be INAPPUITIVE.
    1. Sunjar
      Sunjar 25 October 2013 10: 01
      +1
      Precisely. Must шYou can flatten the butt with the butt.)))
    2. Jin
      Jin 31 October 2013 23: 16
      0
      Quote: makarov
      then in the end it turns out MISSING.


      + Raw barrel ... This inclined box "with skewed feed" of the tape, duplicated firing mechanism, pad, "nullifying" the use of fur sights ... no, this is not a fighter
  12. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 25 October 2013 09: 37
    +1
    I would like to hold it in my hands) It is surprising that the box does not interfere with a convenient grip on the front handle.
  13. Metlik
    Metlik 25 October 2013 09: 48
    +1
    The British have long used a light machine gun instead of an assault rifle. Why not include the shortened Pecheneg in the competition for use in the "Ratnik" kit together with ak12 and aek?
    1. bullet
      bullet 25 October 2013 10: 07
      +1
      He is in the Warrior.
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 26 October 2013 00: 40
      0
      Quote: Metlik
      The British have long used a light machine gun instead of an assault rifle. Why not include the shortened Pecheneg in the competition for use in the "Ratnik" kit together with ak12 and aek?


      What are you talking about?
      Like Minimi, SA80 LSW proved to be the same under-machine gun as the PKK, now it is used more like a rifle Ш with a long thick barrel.
  14. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 25 October 2013 09: 58
    +2
    I wonder how a machine gun will behave in real combat conditions?
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 25 October 2013 10: 00
    +3
    Why is the assault machine gun barrel 65cm?
  16. anykind
    anykind 25 October 2013 10: 57
    +1
    An excellent option for urbanized areas and with frequent movements by means of transportation. It would be interesting to know what is the situation with the gas content on the face of the machine gunner (this is the trouble of all bullpups). Outwardly, it resembles the "modification" of the M-60 from the SAS.
  17. wasjasibirjac
    wasjasibirjac 25 October 2013 11: 03
    +2
    Do I have glitches, or is the old handle with the trigger preserved? the question is the same - what is this "Assault machine gun" for, if the cleaning of the building - in this case, the RPD is quite enough, if you cover the assault unit from a distance - then why are all these cheating on shortening weapons, the usual "Pecheneg" will cope better, t .to. The machine gunner will shoot from it more comfortably and the weapon will be more reliable - there is no bend in the belt.
  18. DesToeR
    DesToeR 25 October 2013 11: 05
    +2
    Do not understand the meaning of a machine gun? Why to suppress at a near city distance a machine gun under 7,62x54. 7,62x39 or 5,45 would fit better, and weapons under them would be easier and more compact. Give the army a machine gun similar to Mini!
    1. apostrophe
      apostrophe 25 October 2013 11: 16
      +1
      I don’t know, of course, but maybe for better penetration of obstacles.
  19. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 25 October 2013 11: 26
    +1
    There is great doubt about the reliability of the tape feed with such a bias in combat conditions. request
  20. Russ69
    Russ69 25 October 2013 12: 05
    +2
    I think redoing Pecheneg is not quite the right decision. It must be done anew, naturally with a possible unification.
  21. Hikar
    Hikar 25 October 2013 12: 19
    0
    What a freak .. why does a compact machine gun have such a powerful caliber? why reinvent the wheel ... if there is a RPD under 7,62x54 make a little tuning and you're done ...
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 25 October 2013 12: 50
      +6
      Quote: Hnikar
      if there is a RPD under 7,62x54


      ???? Is there any truth? Definitely not chambered for 7,62 × 39 mm?

      Quote: Hnikar
      do a little tuning and you're done ...


      What is there to think. laughing Prikalampotskat to him a clamp for deduction when firing a bag of chips and some I will adapt so as not to hold a bottle of Coca-Cola in hands.
      And most importantly, the school diary should be placed in the stock along with a pencil case. recourse
  22. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 25 October 2013 12: 21
    +1
    If this miracle is adopted, then there will be more problems with it than the promised benefits. The very idea of ​​making a bullpup out of a PC is amazing. If compactness is needed, then the only thing that can be done is to move the handle to the box with cartridges and shorten the butt by the same amount, but at the same time a dubious gain is obtained. The maximum is to abandon the box and move the handle to the level of the tape, according to the type M60. Alas, no other is given. In addition, in this obscure machine gun his performance is striking - the feeling that he was made by a handicraftsman in a garage.
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 25 October 2013 14: 28
      +7
      It will not happen! The photo shows an ordinary conversion kit from Zenit. "Pecheneg" is a single machine gun, not intended in its essence for cleansing premises, etc. Many refer to the need for a machine gun in a tactical version with a shortened barrel. Again, who needs it and in what version? I had to talk with the "Minimi" and his brother "M249", as well as with the "Negev" in both modifications. The impressions are not very good, the same as sticking a "weaving" box to the PKK. Transverse ruptures of the sleeves and wedges after the shooting of the "weave" tape is a common thing, the only plus is loose tape and then it is supplied already in factory equipment. Regular troops or special forces? This is the whole question ... From my own experience, I can say that it is easier to drive a couple of "Bumblebees" into a building than to smoke an adversary out of there. It seems that everyone is preparing only for a terrorist war on their territory. Such a barrel is needed by anti-terrorist units, the training of which is sharpened for the release of hostages and the cleaning of buildings. IMHO.
      P.S. If you have questions in PM! For those who are not knowledgeable: term 87-88 Afghanistan (Kandahar), 89-92 extra term Azerbadzhan (Baku, Nagorno-Karabakh), then commander of the platoon in Ossetia, Chechnya - both companies, completed his service as major and company commander of 2003.
      1. Vilor
        Vilor 25 October 2013 15: 41
        +2
        I agree. From myself, I want to add: the Pecheneg turned out to be good, but there are drawbacks that were eliminated on the Pecheneg (it seems so it will be called). Firstly, an inconvenient carrying handle, although it was explained so that the heated air does not interfere with the aiming line. Although I didn’t have such a problem on PCM. Another argument about the bipod, all the same, they were more conveniently located on the PCM, so they were returned to the place on the new Pecheneg. Although this is not often done, but standing and knee shooting with a Pecheneg was mildly uncomfortable. At the PCM, you could hold it by the bipod, on the Pecheneg, in connection with their transfer to the muzzle of the trunk. A tactical stick was placed on the Pecheneg. Plus it’s very interesting what they did there with the box. They promised that he would not make such noise. So I'm more interested in the Pecheneg, and when it starts to enter the troops. And this bullpup, in general, I do not understand its purpose.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 25 October 2013 15: 55
          +2
          The PC-type handle is much more convenient, the design of the carrying handle on the first "Pechenegs" was set only because it was considered if the barrel was not replaceable and so it would come off. They say you can fight moire like that. According to the bipod attachment, in theory there should be two attachment points. There are enough flaws, but let's hope they will be eradicated. It is not for nothing that complaints during the CTO were flowing.
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 26 October 2013 00: 43
          0
          Quote: Vilor
          I agree. From myself, I want to add: the Pecheneg turned out to be good, but there are drawbacks that were eliminated on the Pecheneg (it seems so it will be called). Firstly, an inconvenient carrying handle, although it was explained so that the heated air does not interfere with the aiming line. Although I didn’t have such a problem on PCM. Another argument about the bipod, all the same, they were more conveniently located on the PCM, so they were returned to the place on the new Pecheneg. Although this is not often done, but standing and knee shooting with a Pecheneg was mildly uncomfortable. At the PCM, you could hold it by the bipod, on the Pecheneg, in connection with their transfer to the muzzle of the trunk. A tactical stick was placed on the Pecheneg. Plus it’s very interesting what they did there with the box. They promised that he would not make such noise. So I'm more interested in the Pecheneg, and when it starts to enter the troops. And this bullpup, in general, I do not understand its purpose.


          Only it seems that the flaws were not eliminated, but will be eliminated. It seems there were no pictures from Pecheneg-M in the troops
  23. alex-cn
    alex-cn 25 October 2013 15: 36
    +1
    It is not clear why a bullpup based on a single machine gun suddenly became a light machine gun? he didn’t feel much better, everything else - like a single, where is the handbrake?
  24. ko88
    ko88 25 October 2013 16: 12
    0
    yes, something we didn’t get accustomed to the version of the machine gun with a tape feed of cartridges under the caliber 5,45x39
  25. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 25 October 2013 16: 19
    +4
    The whole point of a machine gun is an increased fire effect on enemy infantry in the range of 200-800 meters. That is, a fire effect with greater intensity, accuracy and efficiency than the shooter's standard weapon provides. All kinds of shortened, lightweight, etc. freaks who do not fulfill this requirement are not needed and even harmful because they are absolutely pointless .... Especially the machine gun finishes off "for" sweeps "in urban conditions" ...
    1. Massik
      Massik 25 October 2013 16: 55
      +2
      The Germans had such tactics, the machine gunner in the middle prevents anyone from leaning out in the corridor, and 2 machine gunners on the sides are engaged in branches and rooms, covering him from the flanks.
  26. mithridate
    mithridate 25 October 2013 16: 35
    +3
    absolutely agree
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    The whole point of a machine gun is an increased fire effect on enemy infantry in the range of 200-800 meters. That is, a fire effect with greater intensity, accuracy and efficiency than the shooter's standard weapon provides. All kinds of shortened, lightweight, etc. freaks who do not fulfill this requirement are not needed and even harmful because they are absolutely pointless .... Especially the machine gun finishes off "for" sweeps "in urban conditions" ...
  27. comraf74
    comraf74 26 October 2013 05: 41
    0
    RUSSIA again tears everyone. You suck a grizzly paw (if YOU have not finished them yet)
  28. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 26 October 2013 07: 13
    +1
    I repeat once again, if you need a very compact and light machine gun, with the ability to work in cramped conditions and without significantly reducing the barrel length, then taking into account the current scientific and technological progress, it remains only to refine the PKK according to the IAR type or create a new model according to the same principle - weighted, removable barrel and the ability to fire from the open shutter in automatic mode, single from the closed. Powered by a high capacity magazine, and preferably a drum, for greater reliability and greater capacity. And no tape and no perversions like Shrike.
  29. vietnam7
    vietnam7 26 October 2013 14: 29
    +3
    An under-machine gun with an under-attachment, the majority lean towards the rpd, he himself is of the same opinion, in most cases it is difficult to carry the "handsome", the rpd will cope with many tasks just as well, and most importantly, you won't have to fence a garden with under-attachments and a bunch of handles. But it seems that more effective managers will decide everything, and not the users of this device.
  30. tracer
    tracer 26 October 2013 16: 25
    +1
    A little article on the topic of the day ... Look at what the Germans and Austrians do in the caliber 7,62 / 51 new generation light machine guns. Against this background, BUL PAP Pecheneg is like that ............ not really. So look and from the machine gun Maxim Bulpap will do. But probably the enemy himself will run away from one type of Bulpapa-Maxim.
    http://warfiles.ru/show-41489-daniya-vybiraet-novyy-ruchnoy-pulemet-dlya-vooruzh
    ennyh-sil.html
  31. bddrus
    bddrus 26 October 2013 18: 09
    0
    with two handles looks like a samopal (
  32. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 26 October 2013 18: 24
    0
    Quote: tracer
    A little article on the topic of the day ... Look at what the Germans and Austrians do in the caliber 7,62 / 51 new generation light machine guns. Against this background, BUL PAP Pecheneg is like that ............ not really. So look and from the machine gun Maxim Bulpap will do. But probably the enemy himself will run away from one type of Bulpapa-Maxim.
    http://warfiles.ru/show-41489-daniya-vybiraet-novyy-ruchnoy-pulemet-dlya-vooruzh


    ennyh-sil.html

    I agree, Pecheneg in bullpup is not the ultimate dream. As for the bourgeois machine guns indicated in the article, they are beautiful, no doubt, but in almost all respects and parameters they have no special advantages over the Pecheneg (ordinary) one. The only advantage is the compactness of the M60E6 - in the standard version it is 19 cm shorter than ours, with a short barrel 21,5 cm, but with all its compactness, the M60E6 is heavier than Pecheneg. NK121 has almost the same dimensions as ours, but again it’s heavier, although in the photo it seems to be a lighter version, I don’t know how much it weighs, but hardly less than Pecheneg.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 8 November 2013 06: 26
      0
      Well, here’s another bourgeois machine gun for comparison, for example http://tillgun.ucoz.ru/publ/1/pulemety/negev_ng7/3-1-0-278
  33. Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 27 October 2013 12: 09
    0
    I liked the idea, but it was implemented somehow damp, there is something to work on. Modernization of the RPD is also an interesting option, even probably more promising.
  34. jar.zoom
    jar.zoom 29 October 2013 16: 23
    0
    Sorry for being rude, but let them push their bull-dads into their asses.
  35. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 8 November 2013 06: 06
    0
    The idea is not bad, I think you can use 7.62 * 39 for close combat in the city, remove the box and put in an 4-row store (move the middle handle if necessary), a full folding stock, replace the rear handle with a folding tactical one, lighten to the maximum, infrared for the night (to the HB monocle on the helmet) and a holographic sight for the day ... in short bring to mind and you get a hellish machine bully