Military Review

The result of cooperation between Israel and Kazakhstan: Naiza rocket launcher

73
Multiple launch rocket systems have long and firmly taken their place in the structure of the land forces of many countries. Missiles of various types are capable of hitting targets in a wide range of ranges and delivering combat units of several types to targets. However, the existing MLRS have one characteristic flaw. In most cases, a single complex of this class can destroy targets using only one type of missile. Often, such a “division of duties”, depending on the range of destruction, can have negative tactical consequences. In this regard, there is a need to create a universal multiple launch rocket system capable of using different types of ammunition with different characteristics.




In the middle of the last decade, the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan ordered the Israeli company IMI (Israel Military Industries) to develop a new MLRS system capable of using various types of missiles. After a series of consultations, the basic requirements for the new system, known as “Naiza” (“Spear”), were identified. The developer company was required to create a multiple rocket launcher system capable of using caliber missiles from 122 to 300 mm. In addition, it was intended to ensure compatibility of the launcher with advanced guided missiles.

Israeli developers and their Kazakh colleagues chose the KamAZ-6350 car produced in Russia with the wheel formula 8х8 as the basis for the new combat vehicle. 360 hp turbocharged diesel engine provides combat vehicle good mobility. So, on the highway, the Naiza self-propelled launcher can accelerate to a speed of 90 km / h. One fueling is enough to overcome 1000 km.

In the back of the base wheeled chassis mounted platform on which all the elements of the complex. For stability when firing, the salvo system combat vehicle has four hydraulic outriggers located at the corners of the platform. In front of the platform there is a large casing to accommodate some equipment of the complex and, possibly, part of the ammunition.

The result of cooperation between Israel and Kazakhstan: Naiza rocket launcher


Above the rear axles of the base car on the MLA “Naiza” there is a turntable with a lifting boom, on which are mounted guides for rockets. It is this part of the combat vehicle that is of the greatest interest, since it provides universality of application. The combat vehicle in the basic configuration is not equipped with a package of guides. On the boom boom there are attachments for two blocks with ammunition. Depending on the tactical need, the MLRS can use several types of missiles.

NAZA MLRS can use Grad 122-mm ammunition and Soviet-made Hurricane 220-mm ammunition. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, a large number of such missiles remained in the warehouses of Kazakhstan, which made it compatible with them when creating a new salvo fire system. Using ammunition caliber 122 and 220 mm, the Naiza combat vehicle can destroy targets at a range of 21 and 34 km, respectively. In addition, Kazakhstan ordered new Israeli-made ammunition. LAR missiles caliber 160 mm have a maximum firing range at the level of 45 km. Finally, the IMI EXTRA ammunition is equipped with a satellite navigation guidance system and can effectively hit targets up to 150 kilometers away.

Missiles of all types are delivered in transport-launch containers (TPK), which, when launched, serve as guides. In the case of Grad shells, two blocks with 20 TPKs are installed on the lifting boom of the MLRS. When using LAR shells, each block holds 16 containers. TPK Uragan missiles or IMI EXTRA are assembled in blocks of five and four units, respectively. All TPK are equipped in the factory. At the same time, containers for Soviet-made missiles can be reloaded manually, and Israeli containers are disposable.




The use of missiles of various types allows to solve a wide range of tasks. The Naiza rocket launcher system can destroy targets at a distance of up to 150 kilometers, and in some ranges of ranges it is possible to use projectiles of several types. Accuracy of firing of unguided rockets is ensured by a modern Israeli-developed digital fire control system. Electronic complex MLRS allows the combat vehicle to work offline or as part of a battery. In the latter case, information about the target comes from the command post connection. During firing, the calculation of the combat vehicle can be in the cockpit or control the fire using the remote control.

It takes about five minutes to prepare a combat vehicle for firing after it arrives at the position. During this time, the calculation of three people lowers the outriggers, closes the cab windows with metal curtains of the original design, and also prepares electronic systems. It takes about three minutes to urgently leave a position. Removing units with empty transport and launch containers and installing new ones takes 8-10 minutes. Recharging the combat vehicle is supposed to be carried out at a distance from the firing positions.




In 2008, IMI, together with some defense companies in Kazakhstan, built several prototypes for the new Naiza MLRS. The tests began in May of the same year in the 12 th mechanized brigade. Prototype testing lasted only a few months and in November 2008, the ground forces received the first two combat vehicles of a new type. This rate of completion of tests and adoption of the system may raise some questions. For example, there is information about some problems that do not allow the Naiza volley fire to use LAR-type missiles. However, the new MLRS adopted and began its mass production.

To date, Kazakh enterprises have built 380 self-propelled launchers for the MLAF Naiza, as well as a number of transport-charging and other auxiliary machines. The new salvo fire system is actively used in the armed forces of Kazakhstan and is being exported. Despite the promising modular architecture and the possibility of using unguided rockets of various types, the MLA "Naiza" has not yet become the subject of export contracts.





On the materials of the sites:
http://military-today.com/
http://arms-expo.ru/
http://raigap.livejournal.com/
http://vpk-news.ru/
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  1. Scandinavian
    Scandinavian 24 October 2013 08: 06
    +8
    The caliber resembles hail, but there is certainly a calimator system for setting up the start and the system is already computerized. The personnel no longer need to stand by the car and turn the steering wheel gaining azimuth and the like.
  2. redcod
    redcod 24 October 2013 08: 45
    +3
    In KZ for these installations are already sitting: the deputy minister of defense, an Israeli businessman and other persons who held this competition. They said that "Naiza" did not meet the requirements, and so on. In addition, the cost of this development was too high.
    1. Professor
      Professor 24 October 2013 09: 00
      +7
      As far as I remember, they are sitting not because of these systems, but because of the modernization of barrel artillery. It was rumored that the bottom of the car could not withstand the recoil of the mortar, but then these same messages were denied. In Israel, they say that a businessman is sitting because he "shared" in Kazakhstan with the wrong clan ...
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 24 October 2013 13: 00
      +5
      Quote: redcod
      In KZ for these installations are already sitting: the deputy minister of defense, an Israeli businessman and other persons who held this competition. They said that "Naiza" did not meet the requirements, and so on. In addition, the cost of this development was too high.

      They sit not for Niza, but for Semser.
      1. smirnov
        smirnov 24 October 2013 16: 30
        0
        Lawyers are already there)))
  3. Clegg
    Clegg 24 October 2013 08: 46
    +7
    Nise in action
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 24 October 2013 09: 50
      11
      Well done Kazakhs, strengthen the army! The Israelis have good systems. Ours also purchased LAR-160 and LYNX EXTRA.
  4. ed65b
    ed65b 24 October 2013 08: 50
    +4
    No, all the same, Jews must be given their due. they asked for something loose in the countries of the former USSR in Azerbaijan, they snatched something in Kazakhstan, they muddied it up in Georgia, Georgians were steamed up and even Russia got into something sloppy. Bravo
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 24 October 2013 16: 07
      +4
      Quote: ed65b
      No, all the same, Jews must be given their due. they asked for something loose in the countries of the former USSR in Azerbaijan, they snatched something in Kazakhstan, they muddied it up in Georgia, Georgians were steamed up and even Russia got into something sloppy. Bravo

      - I would prefer Russian weapons, but in this case, the artillery system from the Jews is good enough, if they bring to mind the possibility of using high-precision missiles, yes, it will be generally fine.
      Well, Duc Jews, despite their dislike for them, you can and should learn from them. Especially quickly selling in general is sometimes a good product. But for "Semser" Jews have no respect and no respect! am They also got off softly - mostly ours are sitting! On the part of the Jews, they found some kind of scapegoat, the middleman there ran a little, ripped off some pretty penny, and he went to the full with the steam locomotive! I think that the ever intensifying international competition will teach the Israelis to treat "goyim" more respectfully.
  5. Lesnik
    Lesnik 24 October 2013 09: 00
    +5
    The principle of batch recharge is very good +
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 24 October 2013 12: 21
      +1
      Quote: Forestman
      The principle of batch recharge is very good +


      As soon as possible, ours would have brought Uragan-1M to mind and mastered production.
      Well, they did it in a truncated version - either as Nise, or as HIMARS.

      And if later they will be adapted from the same platform by Iskanders and (possibly) Point-U - in general there will be no price
  6. scientist
    scientist 24 October 2013 09: 09
    +7
    The former deputy defense minister of Kazakhstan, Kazhimurat Maermanov, will have to stay in prison longer than previously thought. Today, the military court considered another case, which should have been forgotten a long time ago, but a sentence was passed on it. Maermanov, the lieutenant general received another four years in prison for exceeding power, in addition to being sentenced to eleven years earlier.

    His first term, the commander received for abuse of power and receiving bribes on an especially large scale. He was arrested immediately after the security services became aware of some of the nuances of Kazakh-Israeli military cooperation. Then the Ministry of Defense signed a contract with one company from Tel Aviv for the supply of weapons for artillery. As a result, all weapons with the patriotic name “Aybat”, “Niza” and “Samser” failed even during the first test, while the department’s budget lost eighty million dollars. Along with Kazhimurat Maermanov, an Israeli businessman Boris Sheinkman was sent to prison. A little later, both were obliged to pay the state fourteen billion tenge each. Now, as the investigation of this case turned out, it did not end, it took almost three years for the investigators to trace and track the strings coming from the weapons scam, after which they thought about the most severe punishment for Maermanov, who deserved it. Now, in total, the former general will need to serve fifteen years, three of which he has already spent in prison, said Yaroslav Krasienko News - CPC.
    http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2013/07/16/23534
    1. Xroft
      Xroft 24 October 2013 09: 45
      11
      We would have at least one * senior * planted ....
    2. Rinat 1
      Rinat 1 24 October 2013 11: 58
      +7
      So they need scum! Such as they undermine the country's defense, thereby jeopardizing the feeding of an alien army by the people. To the wall it would put
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 24 October 2013 13: 02
      +1
      The journalist went through wherever he could. There were problems with "Semser" due to an unsuccessful choice of platform. As far as I remember, the problem was solved later. In fact, there was a fight between two clans, as a result of which the members of one lost.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 24 October 2013 15: 12
        +3
        More about clans.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 24 October 2013 16: 45
          +1
          Quote: Zymran
          More about clans.
          Clans are somewhat arbitrary. The war of the elites. For example, the sudden resignation of the head of the KNB, Shabdarbayev in December 2009, is also part of this story.
    4. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 25 October 2013 10: 17
      +1
      scientist "To the former Deputy Minister of Defense of Kazakhstan - Kazhimurat Maermanov."
      The surname Maerman-s amused - a joke ...
  7. Gunxnumx
    Gunxnumx 24 October 2013 09: 15
    +8
    Yes, they put several high-ranking military men and a Jew of some sort. They "laundered" big money. And at the complex, they said, after several volleys, the frame or chassis is deformed. Bullshit, in general. Evil is not enough for our thieves.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 24 October 2013 10: 27
      +5
      Quote: Gun70
      Yes, several high-ranking military men and a Jew were imprisoned. я washed ’ big money. And at the complex, they said, after several volleys, the frame or chassis is deformed. Bullshit, in general. Evil is not enough for our thieves.

      And we have ours.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 24 October 2013 13: 03
      +3
      They put him in the Semser.
      1. alone
        alone 24 October 2013 22: 41
        +2
        speaking about semser, one must still give an explanation of what samser is.))

        Structurally, it is a 122-mm howitzer D-30 mounted on a turntable on the chassis of a KAMAZ-63502 truck. It is equipped with an NATO C4I standard automated fire control system and a loading system developed by Soltam systems as part of the ATMOS-155 2000mm self-propelled howitzer

        these people were planted for this and for Aybat. Aybat is the 120mm mortar installed on MTLB. It is because of these two systems that the heads of the above-mentioned persons flew away. The frames could not stand the mortar.

        but there are no complaints about the MLRS. we have a large number of 122,160,220,300 caliber MLRSs that perform their tasks perfectly. I am especially pleased with the 122mm. I had to manually load the shells earlier)) those who served in the cities know what it is
  8. scientist
    scientist 24 October 2013 09: 18
    0
    Heads of defense departments Danial Akhmetov and Ehud Barak on the eve of the visit of the President of the State of Israel Shimon Peres to Astana in June 2009.
    Kenzhebulat Beknazarov claims that these artillery systems are still in development. Several volleys of them were made, but already 80% of them failed. In the framework of the criminal case, numerous examinations were carried out and the conclusions of military experts, including foreign states, which made their opinion on this weapon, were given. Their conclusion: the systems are at the development stage. It can be seen with the naked eye that these systems are not adapted for use, although by contract Israeli companies have committed themselves to bring them to a state of the art. The contract has not actually been fulfilled ...
    According to the head of the KNB press service, in this criminal case, along with General Maermanov, there are a number of officials of the Ministry of Defense, but their names are not given in the interests of the investigation. Over $ 190 million was spent on the acquisition of artillery systems. The KNB definitely believes that this price was "significantly overstated" ...
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 24 October 2013 10: 26
      +7
      Several volleys of them were made, but already 80% of them failed. In the framework of the criminal case, numerous examinations were carried out and the conclusions of military experts, including foreign states, which made their opinion on this weapon, were given. Their conclusion: the systems are at the development stage. It can be seen with the naked eye that these systems are not adapted for use, although by contract Israeli companies have committed themselves to bring them to a state of the art. The contract has not actually been fulfilled ...


      Yes, all this is strange. There are no new and unique components in this system. The LAR and LINX rockets are standard and have been in production for a long time. Azerbaijan and Georgia did not complain, at least. There is nothing to say about "Grad" and "Hurricane". The KAMAZ chassis is one of the best. What can already fail there? Some muddy story.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 24 October 2013 10: 31
        +5
        As I understand it, there are no complaints about the MLRS, there are problems with a self-propelled mortar and howitzer.

        With MLRS slightly different problems

        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 24 October 2013 10: 35
          +3
          As I understand it, there are no complaints about the MLRS, there are problems with a self-propelled mortar and howitzer.

          And isn't the mortar the same "Cardom" that we have in service?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 24 October 2013 10: 39
            +2
            I'm not sure. Apparently, they tried to fasten the Soviet 2B11 to recoil, similar to the "Kardom". Moreover, with the ability to remove and use from the ground from the plate. And the car was not brought to mind
            1. romb
              romb 24 October 2013 10: 45
              +5
              There was somewhere information that the problem with the recoil compensator had already been solved.
        2. romb
          romb 24 October 2013 10: 42
          +4
          Well, this photo is already the fifth year. This situation has nothing to do with shooting. "Extra" has nothing to do with it.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 24 October 2013 10: 43
            +4
            I know I haven't. It’s just that the center of gravity was a little high, and the car is prone to tipping over.
            1. romb
              romb 24 October 2013 10: 48
              +3
              They say that the problem was in the "chassis", ie. in Kamaz, because on similar systems based on the Tatra, this was not noticed.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 24 October 2013 10: 53
                +1
                What is the problem? Too easy? And the developers have to think about it, did not know ...
                1. cdrt
                  cdrt 24 October 2013 12: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  What is the problem? Too easy? And the developers have to think about it, did not know ...


                  From what I heard:
                  1. The frame could not withstand the loads - had to be strengthened (this is about Semser)
                  2. Modularity, it is so modular ... the installation itself and the chassis were not arranged very carefully - the result is a very high center of gravity (this is about Nise)
              2. cdrt
                cdrt 24 October 2013 12: 26
                +1
                Quote: romb
                They say that the problem was in the "chassis", ie. in Kamaz, because on similar systems based on the Tatra, this was not noticed.


                KamAZ, after the first batches of this order, had to reinforce the frames great.
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 24 October 2013 12: 24
        +1
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        KAMAZ chassis is one of the best


        And this is where you got it?
        Bad car, cheap truth (I say that a person who has been closely associated with KamAZ for 8 years and loves this company), well, repairs in every service are possible. I think the Kazakhs chose them because they are being collected there. Well, the lobbying abilities of SA Kogogin are rather big.
        Now, if they master the Daimler units, it may be a very good chassis
        1. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 24 October 2013 13: 04
          0
          And this is where you got it?
          Bad car, cheap truth (I say that a person who has been closely associated with KamAZ for 8 years and loves this company), well, repairs in every service are possible. I think the Kazakhs chose them because they are being collected there. Well, the lobbying abilities of SA Kogogin are rather big.


          I didn’t know this. KamAZ equipment always had a good reputation. Maybe grimaces of local assembly?
          1. Zymran
            Zymran 24 October 2013 15: 12
            +2
            Just in case, in Kazakhstan KamAZs do not collect.
            1. Netrocker
              Netrocker 24 October 2013 15: 17
              +4
              collect: http://kamazkamaz.kz/inzhiniring
              1. Zymran
                Zymran 24 October 2013 15: 19
                +3
                Thank you, I didn’t know. But in general, Kamazes are not praised, even compared to Chinese trucks.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 24 October 2013 15: 22
              0
              http://news.nur.kz/209306.html
              The Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan did not agree with criticism about the fact that the agency does not acquire KamAZ trucks of Kazakhstan assembly
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 28 October 2013 17: 50
          +1
          In 2002 or 2003, the Ministry of Industry of Kazakhstan invited the management of Kamaz to discuss the possibility of creating an automobile plant. Somewhere less than a year later, the first Kazakhstani Kamaz was assembled. First, they were assembled in Almaty (Kamaz Isker), and then in Kokshetau (Kamaz Engineering under the defense company Kazakhstan Engineering). The enterprise is working normally, the cars are delivered mainly to the law enforcement agencies.
          After the shortcomings of the chassis of this machine were revealed, they took appropriate measures - they strengthened everything. Now no problem.
          By the way, the idea to invite Kamaz to Kazakhstan was an initiative of Kazakhstani officials (Department of Innovation Policy of the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Republic of Kazakhstan), not Kogogin. But we must give him his due, he reacted instantly. If I am not mistaken, literally one or two weeks after the call from Astana a KAMAZ delegation arrived (after Nauryz wink in late March or early April). I have never seen such efficiency from Russian factory workers.
          As for cooperation with the Israelis, it seems like the Jews were the initiators. They flew in and met with representatives of the Ministry of Defense and representatives of parliament. They were all of our "former" ones, but they were distinguished by increased cunning and a frank desire to climb where and where it was necessary and not without soap. I have a very respectful attitude towards Jews, but I did not like these guys for their undisguised cunning. They really resembled characters from anti-Semitic jokes. In parliament, they tried to test the waters and try to find something to cling to and "master". But there the Kazakhs listened to them politely and patiently, although they made it clear that they had nothing to catch here. But in the Ministry of Defense, Maermanov could not resist the proposal of his former colleague, who became the representative of Israeli firms in Kazakhstan. To my great, great regret. It is a purely human pity for the officer, but the topic of defense is the cornerstone of the state's foundations, Maermanov stumbled and received a well-deserved punishment.
          Well, the Israeli got the full from Kazakh justice. This case has sobered many in the power organs for a long time. But several years later, similar facts came to light again, now with the Ukrainians. Again arrested officials of the Ministry of Defense and representatives of the Ukrainian defense industry.
  9. Semurg
    Semurg 24 October 2013 09: 27
    +8
    according to reviews, good technique, towed howitzers converted to sau are also good (especially ours like new fire control systems), the only ones with the mortar were like problems that were treated but didn’t really cure. Ours and the Israelis were put for bribes, some gave others took (what I think it is not right x-er to cut money)
  10. Akim
    Akim 24 October 2013 10: 07
    +1
    And how many of these MLRS purchased and in what caliber?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 24 October 2013 10: 32
      0
      "In what caliber" the question is somewhat off topic.
    2. kosta_cs
      kosta_cs 24 October 2013 15: 25
      +3
      As of 2012, Kazakhstan is armed with 380 Niza MLRS
  11. scientist
    scientist 24 October 2013 10: 07
    +2
    The systems Nayza, Samser and Aydat, created under the contract by the Kazakhstan PZTM and the Israeli company IMI, have been withdrawn from service. The total amount spent on their acquisition is approximately $ 190 million in damages divided into 3 participants in the criminal case.
    But in fact - the idea of ​​creating such automated artillery systems was very good and promising. The only mistake K. Maermanov made was that he succumbed to the demands of D. Akhmetov in the speedy modernization of artillery and agreed to immediately conclude a large contract, without OCD and the creation of several prototypes. Although the conduct of the OKR in the troops was banned in 2006 by the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Army General M. Altynbaev, saying "army science is not needed!" The purchase was carried out through a state defense order, of course, the entire government was aware and signed naturally by Prime Minister Massimov and then Deputy Prime Minister S.N. Akhmetov. All the necessary documents were submitted, including comparative price tables with other analogues. The paradox of the accusation is that K. Marmanov himself is not in the financial documents alone. As part of the criminal case, more than 20 senior Kazakhstani officers were involved. But deputy minister K. Maermanov and artillery chief E. Zhartynov refused to admit their guilt, unlike everyone else, so they decided to appoint them “extreme” and hide them behind bars for a long time. The fact that the KNB expertly manipulates the facts is evidenced not only by numerous fake examinations, but also by the fact that the trial with the participation of foreigners, without any reason, was conducted behind closed doors. Therefore now K. Maermanova is simply afraid to let outbecause he is a decent and direct person. Sure abouthe will not be silent whose instructions he complied with and to whose accounts the kickbacks under this contract were transferred.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 24 October 2013 17: 19
      +4
      Quote: scientist
      The Nyza, Samser and Aydat systems, created under the contract by the Kazakhstan PZTM and the Israeli company IMI, have been withdrawn from service. .

      Usually "scientists" cite the sources of published information. But you seem to be a very large figure and you think that the participants of this forum should take your word for it.
      And here I am citing the source of The Military Balance 2010. - P. 364. Based on this source, the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan have 380 Niza MLRS, 160 Semser 122mm self-propelled guns, 560 Aybat self-propelled mortars. And this is consistent with the information I have first-hand. My friend has been working for Elbit for many years and after this company bought Soltam, he participated together with the reinforcement group in the completion of these systems at the request of the Kazakh side. By the way, this is only a plus for Kazakhstan. A contract is a contract and must be fulfilled by both parties.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 24 October 2013 17: 26
        +3
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        My friend has been working for Elbit for many years and after this company bought Soltam, he participated together with the reinforcement group in the completion of these systems at the request of the Kazakh side. By the way, this is only a plus for Kazakhstan. A contract is a contract and must be fulfilled by both parties.



        I agree. Business is business. And you are a plus. smile
      2. scientist
        scientist 24 October 2013 19: 34
        -4
        Your companion probably does not understand the difference between contract delivery and adoption.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 24 October 2013 19: 41
          +4
          Quote: scientist
          Your companion probably does not understand the difference between contract delivery and adoption.

          First, I am not a "comrade". And secondly, my post indicates the number of units adopted for service.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 28 October 2013 18: 02
            +2
            Never mind, Aaron. This "scientist" has already been caught several times by outright lies and nonsense that he has already blacklisted me and other Kazakhs)))) Now he is a great scientist, then he is a great official, then he is a great military man, then he is "a victim of the Kazakh regime "then he is a teacher at a Kazakh university, then he is" a refugee in Russia and his family is afraid to return to Kazakhstan ", and all this can happen for him within one month))))
            And in general, he thinks that I am an agent of the National Security Committee, which monitors him and threatens him with physical harm ... Shaw here to say ... laughing

            ZY Hey, "scientist", we've installed another video bug in your bedroom! Remember this when you go to bed. The 186th department of the Office for Combating Victims of the Nazarbayev Regime is watching you 24 hours a day.
  12. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 24 October 2013 12: 02
    +4
    money down the drain ... And what did the army get? When will you end this crook! There are not enough words, they plant - they plant, but how they stole and how they steal
    1. malikszh
      malikszh 24 October 2013 12: 59
      -2
      Renat stealing will be while he holds power.
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 24 October 2013 14: 04
      +1
      Quote: Rinat 1
      money down the drain ... And what did the army get? When will you end this crook! There are not enough words, they plant - they plant, but how they stole and how they steal

      So they plant the wrong ones.
    3. Ascetic
      Ascetic 24 October 2013 14: 40
      +1
      Quote: Rinat 1
      money down the drain ... And what did the army get? When will you end this crook! There are not enough words, they plant - they plant, but how they stole and how they steal


      Modular Israeli MLRS Lynx development company Israel Military Industries (IMI)
      capable of using a very wide range of ammunition - rockets of the Soviet Grad MLRS and the Israeli 160-mm LAR-160 mount (adopted in 1984), Extra precision tactical missiles (firing range - 150 km) and Delilah cruise missiles (200 km ), launch unmanned aerial vehicles. Two launch containers, the type of loaded ammunition is detected automatically and fire control data is being calculated.
      The principles of such compatibility were also implemented in the Kazakhstan MLRS Nayza (a joint development of IMI and OJSC Petropavlovsk Heavy Engineering Plant). However during the tests it turned out that “Nayza” (“Spear”) was not able to shoot the Israeli RS; in addition, many other design flaws were revealed. The case ended with one of the most high-profile weapons scandals.

      Are Russian MLRSs not the best today?
      Here it should be clarified that in addition to the contract with the MLRS, the Kazakhs purchased the Orbiter UAV from Israel, and the Soltam and Elbit Systems companies developed automatic control systems. All these achievements were demonstrated to President Nursultan Nazarbayev in May 2008, which was also attended by Kazakh Minister of Defense Ismail Iskakov and Azerbaijani Minister of Defense Safar Abiyev. That is, it was assumed that each division of the Naiza, Semser, Aybat systems should include an unmanned aerial vehicle, which will show the calculation of the division the course of the entire battle , which gave reason to argue that the Israeli "Linkes" demonstrated at the parade in Baku are actually "Nays" of Kazakh production, which, according to the Israeli-Kazakh agreement, were bought from Israel.
      How Azerbaijanis bought Kazakh-made Israeli weapons
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 28 October 2013 18: 28
        0
        Quote: Ascetic
        which was also attended by Minister of Defense of Kazakhstan Ismail Iskakov

        Ismail Iskakov - Minister of Defense of Kyrgyzstan. Daniyal Akhmetov was then minister in KZ. But this is not your mistake, of course, but the author of that Armenian article, who is convinced that "Naiza"Аshaft project))) This is an Armenian article about Azerbaijan, what can I expect from the author)
        Nyza - a normal system, rides, shoots, performs its tasks to the required extent.
    4. atomic
      atomic 24 October 2013 16: 25
      +2
      Rinat, they even plant in the RK, in the Russian Federation they keep such in 15 room apartments.
    5. scientist
      scientist 24 October 2013 17: 13
      0
      Quote: Rinat 1
      planted - planted, and how they stole and steal

      Obviously, the wrong ones are imprisoned. Real thieves are thriving, and now they sit quietly in the Senate and in the government. And they plant small sixes for reporting and creating the appearance of fighting corruption. This is one of the ways to cover up the real scale of theft and sabotage in the Kazakh army. Half of these "corrupt officials" did nothing at all, either the order or simply framed.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 25 October 2013 00: 11
        +4
        After that Daniyal Akhmetov - min. Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan resigned. Before that was the prime minister. They said that he was directly involved - according to our opposition media. hi
    6. Semurg
      Semurg 25 October 2013 09: 25
      +4
      Quote: Rinat 1
      money down the drain ... And what did the army get? When will you end this crook! There are not enough words, they plant - they plant, but how they stole and how they steal

      the army received new types of weapons, the industry received orders, the thief received the terms of serving (hang up here on the site and hang out as usual, as all the former say for no reason) Corruption by and large is not eradicated as long as there is money, you need to fight its level, which done with varying degrees of success.
  13. ed65b
    ed65b 24 October 2013 12: 15
    +5
    come on you Friends from Kazakhstan do not be discouraged, we go out of our way almost every day. Get well get normal results. the main thing is not to let relax.
    1. Netrocker
      Netrocker 24 October 2013 14: 17
      +4
      It's a shame that money was thrown away ... sad
      1. kosta_cs
        kosta_cs 24 October 2013 15: 22
        +7
        Into the wind, not the wind ... Time will tell. And so the road will be overpowered by a walker, one must begin with something.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 25 October 2013 09: 45
          +4
          Quote: kosta_cs
          Into the wind, not the wind ... Time will tell. And so the road will be overpowered by a walker, one must begin with something.

          I completely agree here. this is our first pancake and it was fixed in half with sin, the Russians do not need to gloat or everything is going smoothly, thanks to the Israelis for their help in modernizing our weapons, you don’t need to steal with thieves and write nasty things out of your finger after serving.
  14. malikszh
    malikszh 24 October 2013 12: 57
    -6
    after the shooting of the chassis, money broke down and, as always, corruption won !!! Why don't I release weapons to Kazakhstan ?!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. samoletil18
      samoletil18 24 October 2013 14: 08
      +4
      Quote: malikszh
      Why don't I release weapons to Kazakhstan ?!

      Why does a sovereign state have its own army?
      1. scientist
        scientist 24 October 2013 17: 23
        -3
        I would put it differently. Why does a multi-vector state need an army?
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 25 October 2013 09: 26
          +2
          Quote: scientist
          I would put it differently. Why does a multi-vector state need an army?

          why then served in it?
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 28 October 2013 18: 32
            +1
            Quote: Semurg
            why then served in it?

            and he served time for corruption. and now pretends to be a "victim of the regime."
  15. woland05
    woland05 24 October 2013 15: 31
    0
    We miss sales markets. Poorly...
  16. Kazbek
    Kazbek 24 October 2013 16: 52
    +2
    So Kamaz are not yours.
  17. Ckyf
    Ckyf 24 October 2013 17: 20
    +1
    Maybe you should not discuss only the economic component of an unsuccessful complex?
    It is immediately clear that the system itself is approximately an order of magnitude more expensive than the CITY. You can only look at the device of the carriage of the package of guides and it will become clear to the staz that the installation is destabilized, that when salvo on the base frame there are enormous loads, that the package of guides is unbalanced when salvo, that the installation is much more difficult to maintain and more expensive to manufacture in comparison with the city. This is just a PU cursory assessment.
    It is interesting to look at the product management complex with a firing range of up to 150km and ask a question - DOES IT NEED KAZAKHSTAN IN FIG? 150km is the depth of the front, and the army of Kazakhstan is simply not able to solve such problems.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 25 October 2013 09: 32
      +1
      Quote: Ckyf
      Maybe you should not discuss only the economic component of an unsuccessful complex?
      It is immediately clear that the system itself is approximately an order of magnitude more expensive than the CITY. You can only look at the device of the carriage of the package of guides and it will become clear to the staz that the installation is destabilized, that when salvo on the base frame there are enormous loads, that the package of guides is unbalanced when salvo, that the installation is much more difficult to maintain and more expensive to manufacture in comparison with the city. This is just a PU cursory assessment.
      It is interesting to look at the product management complex with a firing range of up to 150km and ask a question - DOES IT NEED KAZAKHSTAN IN FIG? 150km is the depth of the front, and the army of Kazakhstan is simply not able to solve such problems.

      Worse than hail, it’s not a question - buy hail for yourself (and we need to load our industry with orders) and use it skillfully to shoot at different distances, so that you don’t regret that you can’t pull at 150 km.
  18. scientist
    scientist 24 October 2013 19: 31
    -2
    Quote: Aaron Zawi
    Usually "scientists" cite sources of published information

    This was done for Russian colleagues, so that it would be clear what I’m talking about, I gave the official versions of law enforcement agencies. In some matters, I agree with them; this is a high cost, unjustified complexity of the Nise, Samser and Aibat systems and low quality.
    If we are talking about Nise, then even in the 122mm "Grad" modification it can shoot only at a small longitudinal angle, otherwise, due to problems with balancing, it simply overturns, and such cases have occurred more than once. And with a larger caliber, it is generally difficult to call it shooting. The car chatters so that ammunition is flying in all directions. In the last firing, 122 mm missiles, the RMS was 2 km. Sometimes even the field of view of the binoculars was not enough to determine the place of the detonation. Obviously, if the missiles are even more powerful, then even at the range it is dangerous to fire.
    Perhaps these problems could have been avoided if experimental batches had been ordered, which then could have been brought to a normal level or refused altogether. However, the elite wanted to have big kickbacks on their accounts immediately, so they ordered several divisions for huge amounts at once. PAt the same time, Israel, in order to preserve its military market in Kazakhstan, opened to KNB investigators all foreign accounts of officials to which kickbacks were transferred for the contract. Mind you, not a single kopeck of this money was returned to the country's budget! And Israeli companies have become even more active in promoting their military products in Kazakhstan.
    A logical question arises, but were those people judged at all?
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 24 October 2013 19: 42
      +2
      In the end, will you give a source of information?
      1. scientist
        scientist 24 October 2013 21: 46
        +3
        All this happened before my eyes. In 2007, even I personally personally reported to General K. Maermanov in writing about the need for OCD, as well as a bunch of comments on communications and software. But he did not want to listen. I remember very well how at the meeting D. Akhmetov advertised Israeli weapons and sought the allocation of the necessary funds, as did the officers who refused to sign acts of admission. And then I myself was demoted due to the fact that I myself did not become involved and forbade my officers to engage in the rigging of tender documents for the purchase of Israeli communication equipment. Of course, they bought it anyway, because before they get the money into the budget, “the right people” get kickbacks, and there are always enough careerists and tokens ready for anything for the sake of the position.
        obviously you will not agree with me. Then maybe you have your own version for which they planted two Kazakh officers and one of your compatriots?It would be very interesting to know.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 24 October 2013 23: 01
          +5
          Yours for squeezing a bribe, and ours for what you paid. Everything is correct here. I am even more certain that in the 2007 year all of the above systems were raw, but as practice has shown, they are quite elaborate. It’s just that instead of seeking the fastest possible completion, yours began to seek money, and ours, coming from the Union, considered this normal. As a result, the criminals are sitting, the systems are finalized and are in large numbers in service with the spacecraft.
          1. scientist
            scientist 25 October 2013 00: 08
            +1
            Quote: Aaron Zawi
            squeezed a bribe, but ours for what I paid

            Maermanova was charged with article 380 of part 2 of the Criminal Code of the Republic of Kazakhstan - abuse of power and abuse of power, which entailed grave consequences - damage of 14 billion tenge. http://www.zakon.kz/162128-v-astane-prodolzhaetsja-zakrytyjj.html
            There is no question of a bribe in a criminal case. And I do not believe that the officers who were convicted received her. As I said, these people were simply framed to cover real high-ranking thieves and criminals. After all, even for you it is obvious that she was. So who got the money?
  19. Ckyf
    Ckyf 24 October 2013 21: 14
    -3
    Sau Semser in comparison with the Soviet 2C1 is another invention of a bicycle that no one needs.
    Kazakhstan does not plan to buy submarines in Israel?
    1. scientist
      scientist 25 October 2013 00: 22
      -2
      if it plans, then only Belarus.
  20. Urri
    Urri 24 October 2013 23: 58
    +2
    Quote: Ckyf
    Kazakhstan does not plan to buy submarines in Israel?


    No. Starship carriers only. Party
  21. Ckyf
    Ckyf 25 October 2013 17: 38
    -3
    Quote: Semurg

    Worse than hail, it’s not a question - buy hail for yourself (and we need to load our industry with orders) and useful to shoot skillfully at different distances ...
    It’s a foolish thing to shoot, that’s to get there ... The fact of the matter is that you won’t succeed in aiming at different distances from NISA, it’s enough to look at the monitor’s monitor. NICE can only frighten gophers when firing at different distances with such a gun mount, no doubt that the median deviations are several times larger in comparison with the GRAD.
    As for loading your industry, I don’t care what kind of scrap you will spank for your aircraft.

    Quote: Semurg
    ... so you don’t regret that you can’t pull at 150km.
    It is not tricky to "push", it is much more difficult to hit the target, which is actually incredible for such a complex.