Military Review

AK-12 vs. A-545: weird news about the competition

299



One of the main topics in the field of rearmament of our army in recent years has become a promising machine gun. New type of rifle weapons must be put into service over the coming years or even months. At present, the Ministry of Defense and specialized organizations are conducting the activities necessary to determine the most appropriate design. Tests and checks are closed, but September 24 in the domestic media, there was some information about their progress.

The Izvestiya newspaper reported that the Ministry of Defense, after conducting preliminary tests of several types of small arms, decided not to allow the AK-12 to be subjected to state tests. An unnamed source from the headquarters of the ground forces spoke about the causes and consequences of such a decision. According to him, during the tests, the machine gun itself and other types of weapons created on its basis do not meet the requirements of the customer and therefore cannot claim to be used with the equipment of a soldier of the “Warrior” system. Instead of the AK-12 assault rifle developed in Izhevsk, Russian soldiers can get weapons of a similar class, created by employees of the Kovrov Plant named after them. Degtyarev.

Izvestia quoted the words of V. Gromov, the chief designer of the Kovrov enterprise. He said that the new types of weapons submitted to the Defense Ministry competition are a further development of the famous AEK-971 submachine gun. Created in the eighties, the base machine is equipped with a so-called. balanced automatics. This means that when fired, the bolt group moves backward, and a special balancer-counterweight of the same mass moves forward. Due to this, it is possible to level the action of several forces acting on the machine gun during firing. The use of balanced automation can significantly improve the accuracy and accuracy of shooting.



Gromov said that during the preliminary tests, the Ministry of Defense checked five samples of small arms from each organization participating in the competition. All participants, including the plant them. Degtyarev, presented two automatic, two machine guns and one sniper rifle. Development Kovrov gunsmiths successfully coped with the tasks and admitted to the state tests.

The reason for the success of weapons based on AEK-971, according to a source in the test committee, were its high characteristics. Kovrov's weapon showed the accuracy and accuracy of firing indicators demanded from him, including when firing in bursts from unstable positions. As for the weapons developed by the Izhmash enterprise, according to a source told Izvestia, it does not meet the army’s requirements for accuracy, accuracy and reliability. Therefore, AK-12 will not participate in state trials.

A source of "Izvestia" in the command of the ground forces explained that the Kalashnikov concern, which the Izhmash plant had recently joined, still has time to correct the deficiencies identified. If within the next month Izhevsk engineers will be able to rid AK-12 of the existing shortcomings, then the machine can be returned to the competition. However, the source doubts this scenario. He explained that the requirements for the promising machine were announced two years ago. Since that time, allegedly, "Izhmash" failed to create weapons that suit the customer. Therefore, it is unlikely that the new Kalashnikov concern will be able to rectify the situation in just one month.

Finally, a source in the command of the ground forces spoke about the future plans of the Ministry of Defense regarding the current competition for the creation of a new machine gun. After the state tests, selected samples will be put into trial operation in the army. To do this, will be purchased hundreds of new machines, machine guns and sniper rifles. In this case, it is not excluded that AK-12, rejected AK-XNUMX, will also go into trial operation.

AK-12 vs. A-545: weird news about the competition
AK-12


In general, the message "Izvestia" is as follows: Izhevsk designers could not create a promising machine that meets the requirements of the military. Therefore, the new AK-12, about which so much has been said lately, is eliminated from the competition and, most likely, will not be able to replenish the legendary line of weapons that form the basis of the small arms of our army over the past decades.

Just a few hours after the appearance news that AK-12 was prevented from state trials, the Kalashnikov concern published an official press release. According to the concern, AK-12 will participate in state trials. Moreover, during the preliminary tests on the basis of the TsNIITOCHMASH Institute, a sample from Izhevsk, designed for the cartridge 5,45х39 mm, showed its advantages in terms of quality.

According to the official press release of the Kalashnikov concern, the AK-12 machine gun was compared with the Kovrov model of the A-545 model. According to the results of preliminary tests, the overall quality assessment of the AK-12 machine turned out to be higher than that of its competitor, which was created at the Plant. Degtyarev. Due to this, the new development of Izhevsk gunsmiths can take part in the next stage of the competition and has every chance to enter into service with the Russian army.

The press service of the Kalashnikov concern also quoted the words of the general designer of the organization V. Zlobin. As Zlobin said, both samples, AK-12 and A-545, when compared, showed approximately the same indicators of accuracy and accuracy of fire. At the same time, the machine gun created at Izhmash and now being developed by Kalashnikov turned out to be approximately half a kilogram lighter than its competitor. As for the high ratings of Kovrov’s automata, they are due to the fact that the Zapadov Plant. Degtyareva created a weapon based on a single constructive platform.

As a result, AK-12, like A-545, will take part in state trials. However, it is noted that the Kalashnikov concern will finance these works. At the end of the test, a new machine can be recommended for use. The management of the concern is confident that the promising development will be able to pass all the necessary stages of testing and become a new type of armament of our army.

Based on the official press release of the Kalashnikov Concern, we can conclude how the situation around the competition for the development of an automatic machine for promising equipment for the Ratnik soldier looks like. Some nuances of both publications suggest that the new machine AK-12 still managed to pass the preliminary tests, although not without complaints from the customer. This means that in the near future the development company will be able to correct the existing shortcomings, with the result that the following tests will be present modified automaton.

However, the words of some individuals, cited by the publication of Izvestia, make us doubt this version. For example, in the news about the exclusion of AK-12 from the competition, the director of the Moscow branch of the Kalashnikov concern, O. Chikirev, is quoted. He said that Kovrov’s weapons will be subject to state tests at the expense of state funds, and the Kalashnikov concern will pay for financing the verification of Izhevsk’s assault rifles. An unnamed land representative commented on this information as follows. According to him, state tests are tests for state money. Since the state represented by the Ministry of Defense does not want to pay for testing the AK-12, it does not need it. At the same time, nobody forbids the Kalashnikov concern to continue working on the project.

Statements regarding the procedure for financing tests look ambiguous. They can be interpreted in different ways, depending on the desired result. In this regard, the evaluation of the latest news on the course of testing promising automata turns into a rather difficult task. In addition, a characteristic feature of the current situation is the fact that the Ministry of Defense has not yet made any official statements regarding the course of the competition. At the moment, all statements by representatives of the military department are limited to only a few remarks by an unnamed officer from the ground forces command. Naturally, this cannot be considered the official position of the Ministry of Defense.

Although the Kalashnikov concern is an interested party and wants to receive contracts for the supply of small arms, its official press release has the appropriate status and can be recognized as a reliable source of information. The unnamed sources of the Izvestia publication in the armed forces, in turn, cannot be considered as such. Anonymous in all organizations and industries have long earned a very bad reputation, which is why information received from them can be perceived as reliable only with a lot of reservations.

As a result, we again return to the already made conclusion. From the side, the situation around the competition for the development of a new assault rifle for the Russian army looks as if the tested samples, AK-12 and A-545, are generally satisfied with the customer, but should be slightly modified and improved. Therefore, at the moment it will be most reasonable to wait for new messages on the course of the competition, published in the official sources of the Ministry of Defense or participating organizations. Over the coming months or even weeks, the Ministry of Defense may announce the first results of the competition of several machine guns and announce the start of a new test phase. In these messages, a list of companies and structures that have reached the new stage of the competition will be indicated.


On the materials of the sites:
http://izvestia.ru/
http://kalashnikovconcern.com/
Author:
299 comments
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  1. Canep
    Canep 25 September 2013 08: 04 New
    48
    It can’t be, AK - dismissed! It is a pity, the designer has grown old, the machine has grown old. If the Kovrov machine gun will be as reliable as the AK, and the accuracy will be better, then why not take it into service
    1. an-sar
      an-sar 25 September 2013 08: 29 New
      +4
      "AK" is a brand, a trademark, and for frequent we overpay up to 30% for a trademark!
      1. Jrvin
        Jrvin 25 September 2013 09: 16 New
        20
        What can I pay for there? for the mechanism worked out and perfected over the years? it’s simple and cheap as a kilogram of sweets.
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 25 September 2013 11: 57 New
          +1
          hi
          it’s simple and cheap as a kilogram of sweets.

          And there are different candies ...
        2. slacker
          slacker 25 September 2013 12: 08 New
          28
          The higher the level of competition between manufacturers, the more profitable and better the products for the customer.
          1. juneart
            juneart 25 September 2013 18: 27 New
            +4
            I completely agree . Still in commerce there is something like the saying: "ONLY THE BUYER WONS IN THE PRICE WAR BETWEEN THE SELLERS" .... somehow.
          2. cdrt
            cdrt 25 September 2013 21: 18 New
            0
            About competition - it's good if it's honest. And in our case, either the Kovrovites won in intrigue, or because Kalashnikov himself is already very old, did not participate. But modern designers, workers in pilot production can no longer do anything. Which, in principle, given the fact that recent years have been happening in Izhevsk, is not surprising even once.
            But both are sorry.
            One can only hope that the best wins in fair competition.
            The truth is hard to believe in this honest fight :-(
        3. Siberian German
          Siberian German 25 September 2013 19: 07 New
          +7
          or maybe they calmed down and rest on their laurels and the Kovrovtsy fellows are working and customizing their device to the new trends of the time
        4. Enemy
          Enemy 15 March 2014 12: 16 New
          0
          The new AK is, strictly speaking, not any AK. This is a new machine completely. And about the overpayment for a trademark, it was about him.
      2. aktanir
        aktanir 25 September 2013 09: 29 New
        25
        AEK - like, a good assault rifle, although he never held it in his hands. I just hope that state. trials will not be biased. And the Kalashnikov concern will not put pressure on the commission in various ways and in various ways to push its AK-12. After all, the most important thing is to choose for our army the really best automatic machine that those developers now have.
        And if Kalashnikov starts to hysteria that if their AK is lost at the competition, the enterprise will be left without work, and thousands of workers without bread and earnings, so this is their headache - let them refine their brainchild and make it really competitive. And then AK-12 was advertised ahead of time, but it turned out to be a little confusing. (If you believe, of course, what is said in this information).
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 25 September 2013 10: 22 New
          11
          hi
          Finally, competition (and not the name, as happened in the weapons history of Russia more than once) will reveal the Best and the Russian Army will actually receive the best machine gun of this, and not the last century, and we will once again be proud of ...
          1. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 25 September 2013 10: 32 New
            35
            Well, a movie on the topic -

            After watching it and seeing the reaction to the shooting, especially the bursts, I also really wanted to shoot from this machine, and you?
            1. Corrint_25
              Corrint_25 25 September 2013 11: 02 New
              12
              Yes, when shooting in a burst, hands itch to take the product in hand and knock it off at the firing range!
              1. Witold
                Witold 28 September 2013 18: 16 New
                +2
                Burst shooting has never been effective. In most normal armies in the world, 2 rounds are fired single. The queue is only needed when cleaning rooms from a minimum distance.
                1. cat
                  cat 5 June 2014 01: 09 New
                  +3
                  Apparently your designers also worked in vain on the accuracy of Tavor))
            2. Jake danzels
              Jake danzels 25 September 2013 12: 58 New
              +1
              This is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Cg6uxRfeU
            3. Victor
              Victor 25 September 2013 22: 05 New
              +6
              Quote: Apologet.Ru
              After watching it and seeing the reaction to the shooting, especially the bursts, I also really wanted to shoot from this machine, and you?

              After viewing, I had the lasting impression that AEK had almost perfect balance. Particularly impressed with the shooting in long bursts.
            4. Crrusader40
              Crrusader40 26 February 2014 23: 39 New
              0
              you can immediately see the difference in return between ak-74 and aek-971. even the trunk does not throw up much, and the butt just rests on the shoulder.
              wanted by itself)
        2. Russ69
          Russ69 25 September 2013 10: 48 New
          16
          Quote: aktanir
          And if Kalashnikov starts to hysteria that if their AK is lost at the competition, the enterprise will be left without work, and thousands of workers without bread and earnings, so this is their headache - let them refine their brainchild and make it really competitive.

          So that this does not happen, you can take into service both automatic machines, but to promote the AK-12 for export, and AEK basically to buy for yourself. It’s just harder to sell weapons that aren’t accepted at home.
        3. Knizhnik
          Knizhnik 25 September 2013 11: 02 New
          10
          I join the wish for the impartiality of the competition. It's a shame to lose of course, but they don’t joke with such things. Russia has the experience of making strong-willed decisions, as in the case of helicopters.
          1. Enemy
            Enemy 15 March 2014 12: 30 New
            +1
            Yes, we win anyway! :-) I even want the new name to appear in small arms, so that the Kovrovites win.
        4. Canep
          Canep 25 September 2013 12: 06 New
          +6
          Quote: aktanir
          the enterprise will remain without work, and thousands of workers without bread and earnings

          The plant will not remain without work, on the contrary, if they adopt a new machine, then the re-equipment will be enough for everyone, and for a long time.
          1. Serg 122
            Serg 122 25 September 2013 18: 19 New
            +3
            And when were the Kovrov assault rifles armed with the aircraft? And nothing - they waited for their finest hour ...
        5. Jake danzels
          Jake danzels 25 September 2013 12: 52 New
          +3
          Ak-74 lost to AEK-971 in the tender (even with the scoop), but only this AK is a BRAND and therefore took the AK instead of the Kovrovites.
          By the way, a long line from AEK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5NLukxT46Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=54
          1. 7ydmco
            7ydmco 25 September 2013 14: 19 New
            0
            A similar reason for the adoption of ak 74, where did you find out?
          2. Ulysses
            Ulysses 25 September 2013 16: 19 New
            +4
            Ak-74 is generally a misunderstanding.
            You can peck me, but AKM surpasses him in all respects (except for the "funny bullet" and the bikes around it).
            1. 7ydmco
              7ydmco 25 September 2013 21: 28 New
              0
              And what to do with perseverance and return?
            2. Droid
              Droid 26 September 2013 00: 09 New
              +1
              AKM loses AK74 in all respects.
          3. _CAMOBAP_
            _CAMOBAP_ 25 September 2013 16: 39 New
            +9
            And what is a "scoop"?
            1. Arabist
              Arabist 25 September 2013 16: 41 New
              +1
              Do you use a vacuum cleaner? And everything is the old fashioned scoop and broom. wink
              1. densh
                densh 25 September 2013 18: 33 New
                0
                Kalashnikov already lost to Nikonov at the Abakan contest and survived nothing.
        6. Old skeptic
          Old skeptic 25 September 2013 23: 05 New
          +2
          And who is stopping to establish licensed production of AEK in Izhevsk. If they adopt a new model for repression, the capacities of both plants will be useful to the country.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 25 September 2013 23: 42 New
            0
            Quote: Old Skeptic
            And who is stopping to establish licensed production of AEK in Izhevsk. If they adopt a new model for repression, the capacities of both plants will be useful to the country.

            On Izhmash, and so overproduction was one of the main ills.
      3. Sergeo_89
        Sergeo_89 22 October 2013 12: 14 New
        0
        as for export, it’s possible, but for its own
    2. Joker
      Joker 25 September 2013 20: 57 New
      +1
      If a Kovrovian machine gun is as reliable as AK, and accuracy is better, then why not take it into service

      IF you can remove, AEK has already won AK in all parameters for a long time, only because of the high cost and lobbying it was abandoned, I had no doubt that AK will merge with this tender. The design is already outdated, it is necessary either to refine thoroughly, or to take another. Zazhralis in Izhmash, hoping that again in the army will take parashu without competition, this brand! So they flew, nothing terrible for them, the Americans have spattered everything for a long time, they will not wait for the start of sales, so they will not afford to hit hard.
    3. cdrt
      cdrt 25 September 2013 21: 26 New
      +4
      Balanced automation, the idea is certainly beautiful, but:
      1. Cables, gears - not for war, it’s a parade, shooting, yes, but in dirt, dust ... it’s hard to believe that soldiers aren’t rubbing ... more than they used to be with the M16
      2. In my opinion, the scheme itself - how to say ... contradicts Occam's razor. Introduced a new entity where all other constructors do without such complication, obtaining comparable accuracy
      1. Kurkin
        Kurkin 25 September 2013 21: 36 New
        +6
        There is no cable. It’s you who beguiled with AN. There is only one gear, to synchronize the work of the balancer and moving parts in the receiver.
        1. Koshak
          Koshak 22 September 2014 08: 33 New
          0
          Quote: Kurkin
          There is no cable. It’s you who beguiled with AN. There is only one gear, to synchronize the work of the balancer and moving parts in the receiver.

          AEK-971 sophisticated balanced automation increases accuracy, but significantly reduces reliability. The connection of the piston and the balancer is carried out through the gear, the balancer itself is attached with a pin, which can simply fly out. And until you insert the pin back, the machine will not shoot. In turn, the AK-12 does not have large structural difficulties and, accordingly, has greater reliability.
          The cost of manufacturing an AEK-971 machine is more expensive than the AK-12. In addition, the capacities of the Degterev Kovrov Plant are simply insufficient today to cope with the production volumes of new machine guns in the quantity necessary for rearmament. Izhmash naturally has no such problems.
    4. GSH-18
      GSH-18 15 October 2013 11: 54 New
      -1
      Quote from an article (expert of the Ministry of Defense): "As for the weapons developed by the Izhmash enterprise, it, as a source told Izvestia, does not meet the army’s requirements for accuracy, accuracy and reliability."
      Compared to the A-545, naturally.
      “Kalash” is the same “bicycle” anyway, AK still comes out (according to the Kalashnikov concern). It is not surprising that this was to happen sometime: "Does not meet the requirements of the army." Design does not solve everything. It is necessary to improve the automation of weapons. After all, you can’t stop time.
    5. edge
      edge 23 October 2013 07: 08 New
      0
      Quote: Canep
      It can’t be, AK - dismissed!

      Is this time the Kovrov machine gun will come out of the Kalash brand’s shadow, it’s hard to believe.
  2. Civil
    Civil 25 September 2013 08: 04 New
    +1
    A set of rumors and not an article :-) but in general, what is there with the Kovrovites?
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 25 September 2013 08: 17 New
      24
      It seems that there is an undercover struggle, lobbying for interests.
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 25 September 2013 12: 55 New
        +5
        Quote: xetai9977
        It seems that there is an undercover struggle, lobbying for interests.


        And there is. It is not clear who is fighting with whom. If we assume that the struggle between ZID and Izhmash is like bees against honey. I think someone really needs two leading weapons factories to bite with each other ... only it does not have any relation to healthy competition.
      2. edge
        edge 23 October 2013 07: 24 New
        0
        Quote: xetai9977
        It seems that there is an undercover struggle, lobbying for interests.

        and it never stopped, let’s recall the Mosin rifle (Nagana was shod, but the comforting farmers gave)
    2. Tjumenec72
      Tjumenec72 25 September 2013 08: 39 New
      +1
      Quote: Civil
      but in general, what is it about the Kovrovites?

      The new version of AEK-97X ... externally ennobled
      1. Tjumenec72
        Tjumenec72 25 September 2013 15: 07 New
        +6
        Here is the picture (not final of course)
        1. predator.3
          predator.3 25 September 2013 18: 43 New
          +1
          interesting, but how is the TTX AEK-973 caliber 7,62x 39mm?
        2. savarineko
          savarineko 25 September 2013 22: 23 New
          0
          Outwardly promising AEK is a bit like mp-5, well, or it just seems so easy to me ....
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 25 September 2013 22: 26 New
            0
            They took a similar butt
            1. Kurkin
              Kurkin 25 September 2013 22: 36 New
              0
              In my opinion, there are also sights. The same wheel in a horizontal plane with a diopter.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 25 September 2013 22: 40 New
                0
                Yes, they are right in that. Very similar.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 25 September 2013 22: 43 New
                  0
                  MP-5 KURTS ..........
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 25 September 2013 22: 52 New
                    +1
                    Sasha, hi. It was possible to somehow hold in my hands one of the first versions - a solid piece of iron was 8)
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 25 September 2013 22: 53 New
                      0
                      I want to take such a civilian option to take 28 cal. In Mail is sold.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 25 September 2013 22: 59 New
                        +2
                        Figs knows him. H&K is very guilty of poor manufacturing and neglect of the civilian sector. They have an excellent marketing department, but everything else ...
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 25 September 2013 23: 12 New
                        0
                        My acquaintance, Saig, bought me a torment with her, she had a big withdrawal, until the barrel was checked with a plumb line, the trunk turned out to be behaved.
                      3. Pimply
                        Pimply 25 September 2013 23: 43 New
                        +2
                        Here is H&K such a European Izhmash.
                    2. vanaheym
                      vanaheym 7 October 2013 09: 47 New
                      +1
                      The small-caliber MP5 has nothing to do with the HK except for the design - it is released by German Sport Guns under the name GSG-5.
                      (By the way, they also produce small-caliber AK)
      2. Lone gunman
        Lone gunman 7 July 2014 21: 39 New
        0
        it’s necessary to be baptized, and the machine is just wonderful AEK, not even an MP-5, it’s better to have an MP-3-better sound))).
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 25 September 2013 11: 58 New
    +5
    Dear, watch carefully the movie above Apologet.Ru, especially with regard to firing in bursts - the Kovrov assault rifle does not jerk anywhere, that means accuracy will be good, and with balanced automation the recoil will be felt when the last bullet is fired, and Kalashnikov always drags up when firing bursts.
    1. duke
      duke 25 September 2013 16: 37 New
      +2
      yeah, you're right ... even when firing in long bursts, AEK like a glove, it seems this time the military decided correctly. Hope the same with reliability and ease of assembly / disassembly. It would be nice to learn more about Kovrov machine guns and a sniper rifle. It is interesting whether the carpeted rifle will surpass the famous SVD, and their machine gun, in my opinion, the Badger, the famous Pecheneg?
  • bunta
    bunta 25 September 2013 08: 11 New
    +8
    Otmaz concern - a sweet pill so that it is not bitter and insulting
    those who still "believe" in ak-12.
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 25 September 2013 08: 23 New
    17
    And most importantly, that there was a better assault rifle in terms of performance characteristics, and not in political and other reasons, which was put in for purchase in the troops.
    1. Koshak
      Koshak 22 September 2014 08: 44 New
      0
      The main thing is reliability. At AK, its reliability more than covers all its disadvantages. And AK gained such popularity in the world, mainly because of reliability.
  • svskor80
    svskor80 25 September 2013 08: 32 New
    +8
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that there is an undercover struggle, lobbying for interests.


    Very much like that. But in terms of intelligence, it is clear that the troops should have the best assault rifle in terms of all qualities and preferably a machine gun on the same platform.
  • The Indian Joe
    The Indian Joe 25 September 2013 08: 44 New
    12
    AEK, IMHO, better. Although, probably, it is slightly inferior to AK in reliability. Well, the whole army of the Americans is armed with the M-4 and M-16, which are much more reliable than anything and nothing.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 25 September 2013 16: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Native American Joe
      Well, the whole army of the Americans is armed with the M-4 and M-16, which are much more reliable than anything, and nothing.

      The reliability of the M-4 and the latest versky M-16 is more than level.
      1. Serg 122
        Serg 122 25 September 2013 18: 23 New
        +7
        How many years after the start of production?
      2. Botanologist
        Botanologist 26 September 2013 00: 08 New
        +3
        Quote: Pimply
        The reliability of the M-4 and the latest versky M-16 is more than level.


        As for the reliability of the M-4 I agree, although there are very different opinions about this device. Many consider it a complete crap in terms of performance.
        But M-16 I doubt it. Maybe something has been finalized, but in general the bulk of the weapons of the M-16 brand is very doubtful in reliability. The accuracy, of course, is normal, I do not argue.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 26 September 2013 00: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Botanologist
          As for the reliability of the M-4 I agree, although there are very different opinions about this device. Many consider it a complete crap in terms of performance.

          Yuzal several types of this rifle for three years, including the oldest.
          The main problem was in stores or in cartridges - they were the ones that caused the failures. It is worth noting that over three years the cases were isolated.
          On the M-4 and on the M-16A2E3, a reinforced barrel and a number of other parts, cartridges are used that are different from those used in the first versions. Now this is the m855A2, that is, the third upgrade of this cartridge, adopted in 1980 instead of the M193. In addition, now reinforced stores are being used.
          1. I think so
            I think so 28 November 2014 21: 35 New
            0
            Well, this is the RELIABILITY of the WEAPON when it can work with not very good cartridges. Not a very good cartridge CHARACTERISTIC FOR ANY SERIOUS war. And the sleek chambers with shiny bullets and the exact weight of the offal are just NOT CHARACTERISTIC in production during the war ... So, your reliability arguments are just ridiculous ... excuse me, they look childishly naive ...
  • a52333
    a52333 25 September 2013 08: 45 New
    10
    And also the question raised by Rogozin: the license for AK-47 from China, Yugoslavia, Poland ended. Will ours raise a legitimate question?
    1. Assistant
      Assistant 25 September 2013 21: 13 New
      +1
      Was the AK patented? And even if it did, the patent protection period under international treaties is no more than 5 years. Look in the mattress, for example, you also have to pay several times so that the patent protection lasts 5 years.
      So, if certain elements and details of the AK-105, AK-107, AN-94 were patented in the era of turbulent Russian capitalism, then the term of their patent protection should have passed.
      But the brand is another matter. If there is an internationally registered trademark, then nobody but Izhmash (now - the concern) has the right to call their Kalashnikov, AK, and others like them.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 25 September 2013 21: 54 New
        0
        Quote: Assistant
        Was the AK patented? And even if it did, the patent protection period under international treaties is no more than 5 years. Look in the mattress, for example, you also have to pay several times so that the patent protection lasts 5 years.

        A little more usually depends on the product.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 25 September 2013 21: 53 New
      0
      A trade patent term is usually 15–25 years maximum. That is if he is. This is for starters. For example, in the hundredth series, patents are only for individual structural elements now.
  • Circle
    Circle 25 September 2013 08: 51 New
    12
    Reporting for several years.

    1. eplewke
      eplewke 25 September 2013 10: 20 New
      +6
      AEK - an excellent machine. Venezuela bought a batch from us. They are just delighted with the machine. They compare it with nuclear parity ... I read the article of one of the local officers: "we haven’t had the best weapons yet."
      800 deaths per minute and balanced mechanics do their job. The only “minus” in AEK is its rate of fire. The clip can be shot in 1.5 seconds ...
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 25 September 2013 12: 06 New
        +5
        And constantly thrashing with queues is completely useless, with such a balanced mechanism, it will not seem to be single either, since the machine does not drag and does not throw it in any direction.
        1. labendik
          labendik 25 September 2013 17: 12 New
          +4
          Adopt the SCS.
        2. Serg 122
          Serg 122 25 September 2013 18: 26 New
          0
          Again, what prevents the store capacity from changing (remember AK and RPK) ... Immediately do stores with fasteners - so that 2 stores can be fastened together. Insulating tape and adhesive tape are certainly cheaper, but - not that level
      2. duke
        duke 25 September 2013 16: 41 New
        +2
        in my opinion, Venezuela purchased the Kalashnikovs production from us and, as far as I remember, Chavez handed the Kalash soldiers to the soldiers, although maybe they bought a test batch of AEK for their special forces, I just missed this fact ...
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 15 October 2013 12: 14 New
      -1
      From the video: "the name (Kalashnikov) won the competition"
      I really hope that common sense will prevail. And the army will receive a more advanced and modern system of small arms! yes
  • Rus86
    Rus86 25 September 2013 08: 52 New
    +2
    it will be like the 70s when they took the machine under a small-caliber cartridge. it is known that there were samples with characteristics better than AK74, BUT. purely from an economic point of view, since all AK models are at least partially interchangeable, we chose it. for the same reasons, it is unlikely that they will accept a cartridge of a different caliber. (Somewhere from the subject magazines I read it)
  • sergey69
    sergey69 25 September 2013 08: 56 New
    +8
    Source "Izvestia" their next nonsense? Do not trust this newspaper.
    1. Colonel
      Colonel 25 September 2013 11: 37 New
      +4
      I agree with you. Izvestia is the source where vehicle numbers are read from a satellite and portrait shots taken lol
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 25 September 2013 12: 09 New
        +2
        I don’t know how in Izvestia, but it was possible to remove the car number from our satellites, I personally saw the photo from a senior officer of the Naval Academy in Leningrad, these were "visual aids" for students of the academy.
        1. Colonel
          Colonel 25 September 2013 20: 21 New
          -2
          car number can be removed from our satellites
          a little not automatic topic, I will not develop. Just figure out where the satellite flies and how the car number is located.
    2. me
      me 25 September 2013 17: 00 New
      +3
      Nonsense is not nonsense, but on the radio "keep fm" they said exactly the same thing.
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 25 September 2013 09: 14 New
    12
    World experience says that not a single company is able to maintain its leadership forever, so artificially delaying this issue is useless. The main thing is not to change the cartridge.
    1. labendik
      labendik 25 September 2013 17: 10 New
      +1
      The cartridge is not very successful.
      1. savarineko
        savarineko 25 September 2013 22: 28 New
        0
        Quote: labendik
        The cartridge is not very successful.

        Maybe not very, but in the near future no one else is going to develop ....
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 15 October 2013 12: 28 New
          -1
          Quote: savarineko
          Maybe not very, but in the near future no one else is going to develop ....

          Already going. There was an article on the site.
          The essence is this: The creation of a new rifle complex (assault rifle) must begin with the development of a cartridge for it (which is logical). Until this is done, until then the next "Kalashnikov assault rifles" will be obtained, for which, by the way, the 7,62 caliber cartridge was adapted at the time.
        2. edge
          edge 23 October 2013 07: 35 New
          0
          Quote: savarineko
          Maybe not very, but in the near future no one else is going to develop ...

          Well, Izhmash received a license to organize cartridge production, so we will wait for new developments in this area .....
  • andrey903
    andrey903 25 September 2013 09: 25 New
    +5
    AK-12 tuned Kalashnikov, with which he will shoot much better. That's about Galil
  • Seaman
    Seaman 25 September 2013 09: 31 New
    +5
    AEK-971 is in all directories, and A-545 what kind of animal? I haven’t found anything sensible about him. AEK is more complicated than AK in both production and maintenance, although there are a number of advantages. In general, the article is somehow muddy, there are already refutations everywhere.
    1. duke
      duke 25 September 2013 16: 43 New
      +4
      A-545, possibly means a 5,45 mm caliber automatic request , although you need to ask the Kovrovites
  • DuraLexSedLex.
    DuraLexSedLex. 25 September 2013 09: 33 New
    19
    That's right, "tests showed", this is the most important phrase, what they wrote from the Kalashnikov concern is an excuse, based on what McCain wrote in our press. This is an indicator of COMPETITION, do not grieve over AK, it will still show itself, it is necessary to choose not the brand, but the BEST, and this is the problem of Izhevsk residents that their products do not reach their brand.
    I personally do not care whose machine will be (Kovrovsky, Tula, Klimovsky or Izhevsky), the main thing is OUR and that would be the BEST and RELIABLE.
    1. DuraLexSedLex.
      DuraLexSedLex. 25 September 2013 09: 39 New
      +2
      PSAK-12 could not be better than AEK in a particular competition, because AEK as stated in the article has "balanced automation", but AK-12 is not, but AK-107 had it, and he was also in the competition.
    2. edge
      edge 23 October 2013 07: 40 New
      0
      Quote: DuraLexSedLex.
      we must choose not the brand, but the BEST, and this is the problem of Izhevsk residents that their products do not reach their brand

      Izhevsk’s products are a priori better; they weren’t put into production, just because you need to change the entire machine park for it (as they said in a modest way)
  • mirag2
    mirag2 25 September 2013 09: 36 New
    +6
    Well now. I already wrote about this. The breath takes, is it really that AEK will get what it deserves?
    Izhmash has long been a place in the railway, which is what he has earned lately. Because: DO YOUR WORK QUALITATIVELY!
    And then: tyap-blunder, plague tolerances, and so it will do. But it will not do! Small arms are the main thing.
    And then you are-on their own initiative(they thought they would get ahead of everyone, slip what they have and drive it) developed new ak12. Purely they wanted to fool the old machine gun overweight (and the body kit is rubbish, probably they didn’t deal with it tightly) -and the quality is full of feces ....
  • Lakkuchu
    Lakkuchu 25 September 2013 09: 41 New
    +2
    Who knows what option?
    1. DuraLexSedLex.
      DuraLexSedLex. 25 September 2013 09: 49 New
      +4
      Ummm, I'm not sure that this is ours)
      Around the gerbil, hen is standing on the barrel ACOG (this is a regular sight of the US Army, it differs in that the factory introduced amendments to the grid ONLY for a certain caliber, namely 5.56 NATO, although there is an export under the cartridge 7.62X39 =), there is no mechanical sight, then there is no front sight or rear sight.
      1. DuraLexSedLex.
        DuraLexSedLex. 25 September 2013 09: 55 New
        +2
        And yes there are no devices for attaching a grenade launcher, I think you will not argue that this is a necessary requirement) Most likely this is a shrub or small batch of Ak base, from an American studio)))
        1. Lakkuchu
          Lakkuchu 25 September 2013 10: 10 New
          +3
          Yes, not ours) I am also inclined to the version about the US craftsmen)
        2. edge
          edge 23 October 2013 07: 46 New
          0
          amers have several firms specializing in design from ..... fucking rifle samples (saw an upturned version of the sks: such an ass)
    2. Parabelum
      Parabelum 25 September 2013 14: 31 New
      +5
      This is an American alteration of the Ak-47 "Black Rain Ordnance AK-47"
      Here about him, current in English
      http://www.hausofguns.com/2013/01/14/black-rain-ordnance-ak-47-prototype-rifle-s

      hot-show-2013 /
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 25 September 2013 09: 44 New
    +2
    And MO is silent. Apparently, there is plenty to choose from and there is something to modify. Both machines. And this is good in my opinion, there is competition. In the end, it’s true, a situation is possible when both automatic weapons will be adopted, but for different branches of the armed forces. By specificity, so to speak.
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 25 September 2013 18: 32 New
      +1
      Yeah, like in a joke! At first they will see who will pay how much, and then they will be judged by justice ... laughing
  • morpogr
    morpogr 25 September 2013 09: 48 New
    +2
    There is a competition, it’s good until the end of the test is still far away, and let the best kb win the main thing so that the weapon is excellent.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 25 September 2013 10: 20 New
      +3
      AK lost the competition 10 years ago. AEK won. So what? Let's get into the army. And he is not in the army because there are still strong corrupt ties between the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and Izhmash. But the awl will come out. No matter how they squat there in warm places.
      1. Droid
        Droid 26 September 2013 00: 14 New
        +2
        AEK also lost 10 years ago.
  • Nick_1972
    Nick_1972 25 September 2013 10: 03 New
    +1
    In my opinion, before choosing an assault rifle, we must decide what kind of army we see in the near future. If professional, then you need one machine, and if the draft, then - completely different. To put it mildly, it is inexpedient to give year-olds an assault rifle hung with a laser, a flashlight, a grenade launcher, an adjustable cheek, a night sight, etc., which they will occasionally scrub scraps of old camouflage.
    1. JonnyT
      JonnyT 25 September 2013 10: 46 New
      +8
      You are talking about a machine gun as a strategic missile. Anyone who graduates from school will be able to successfully operate even a super-duper tricked machine, most importantly an effective teaching method, and not an 3 oath of cartridge
  • Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 25 September 2013 10: 06 New
    +3
    I agree with many - competition is the engine of progress. Especially if it is between its Russian manufacturers the Army should get the best model for armament.
    And it would be great if the solution to this issue did not come down to the notorious "kickbacks."
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 25 September 2013 10: 09 New
    +2
    I, as a person who is undoubtedly biased, most of all today I like the development of Kalashnikov's ideas in the Galil ACE version.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 25 September 2013 10: 11 New
    11
    What's the problem ?

    If there is a good, solid competition for small arms with the presence of AK-12, amended AEK and other systems that will reveal the strengths and weaknesses of weapons, what's wrong with that?

    The main wish is that it be an HONEST contest in the style of the USSR, when everything mercilessly exploded, collapsed, buried and broke. When personal ambitions and preferences went to the margins and the DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY was put in the first place.
    The main thing is that it was precisely the WEAPON COMPETITION and not the distribution of dough.

    I personally have long been interested in balanced automation. There is she on AK.
    How effective and justified is it?
    How much with her weapons become more moody in terms of use and maintenance?
    How difficult is the conscript to deal with?
    How complex is this system and expensive in mass production?

    Good luck to the contest.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 25 September 2013 10: 21 New
      +2
      Exactly! Without different political and administrative components.
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 26 September 2013 02: 57 New
      +4
      Quote: Aleks tv
      The main wish is that it be an HONEST contest in the style of the USSR, when everything mercilessly exploded, collapsed, buried and broke. When personal ambitions and preferences went to the margins and the DEFENSE OF THE COUNTRY was put in the first place.

      Well, do not be so beautiful ...
      Comrade Tupolev “moved” his Tu-22 so that the army had to create “combat training centers” to put it “on the wing” ... Subsequently, the Tu-22M appeared, because 22 was clearly raw.
      The history of the creation of the Tu-160 is also sad - at first Tupolev tried to "foist" the turned Tu-144, which was directly indicated to him by the same flyers. The Sukhoi project was considered the most successful, but Pavel Osipovich was already seriously ill. And Myasishchev, in the garage, had certain backlogs ...
      As a result, Tupolev "ripped off" the most successful decisions of competitors, as far as possible.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 26 September 2013 06: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Well, do not be so beautiful ...
        Comrade Tupolev so "moved" his Tu-22,

        But where is the beauty then ... ??? Competition, yes, was not frail, Soviet designers fought for their offspring, pushing their ideas in every way. You can’t name the relationship honey. But IDEA was in the first place.

        And now everything is decided by the loot. Without it, a finger will not hit a finger. The machine is just a means of earning this dough, its characteristics are of interest to gunsmiths only from this point of view. Capitalism, however ...

        This is what I wanted to say. Why confuse "about prettiness" and even planes to drag in?
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 26 September 2013 15: 01 New
          +4
          Quote: Aleks tv
          This is what I wanted to say. Why confuse "about prettiness" and even planes to drag in?


          Yes, do not be so offended ...
          fool
          On the issue of competition, where there is both money and a big name, with all that it implies, there is always room for undercover games.

          I will add. All of the aforementioned small arms were created in the early 90's. Since then, nothing fundamental has changed in them, neither in Baryshnikov, nor in AEK, nor in AK or AN.
          All the years, even the "well-fed" Soviet ones, unification has been put at the forefront as the basis for the cheapening of production technology. And hardly anyone today will refuse this, perhaps, the basic requirement.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 26 September 2013 15: 16 New
            +1
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Yes, do not be so offended ...

            Everything is good.
            wink
            And I try not to participate in the dispute:
            "worked" only with Kalash,
            he only shot from Abakan, but AEK did not see in the eyes.
            winked

            To understand that it is better to nadolat thoughtfully with all the trunks for several months in different conditions, I just hope for an honest competition.
            And the new one is really nothing fundamentally invented now.
  • Double major
    Double major 25 September 2013 10: 19 New
    +3
    Frankly, I do not believe that according to the Kalash scheme it is possible to create a machine with a fairly high accuracy ... His machine gun was created, with a scheme for a mass army, of a poorly trained soldier, for a high density of fire. It is under this that he is imprisoned. New requirements - a new scheme of automation, this is logical. But the concern’s lobby will do everything to push competitors - a lot of money is at stake ...
  • Navy7981
    Navy7981 25 September 2013 10: 21 New
    +3
    1. There has always been an undercover struggle among our designers, the ability to enter high offices has always been of great importance, however, I suppose that foreign companies use communications in their administrations in the same way. Nothing is new under the moon.
    2.AEK was in service with the special forces of the Ministry of Justice, it would be interesting to hear the opinion (s) of those who used it.
    3. The most important thing in small arms is the shooter who is taught to shoot. There are training techniques for shooting from AK, and they need practice, practice and practice. Those who use Ak seriously will not let them lie; in able hands it provides excellent accuracy.
    "stay calm and keep shooting."
  • Diesel
    Diesel 25 September 2013 10: 22 New
    +8
    IMHO, I’m even glad that the Kalash "lost", because to hang Israeli stocks and trims, but pass off all this as a supernova cool development: somehow it’s not kosher.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 25 September 2013 10: 28 New
    0
    News is not information, it is misinformation.
    I am sure then it turns out that everything is even close not as described in the article.
  • Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 25 September 2013 10: 30 New
    +2
    AK is a world famous brand that brings the country hundreds of millions in its own name. But it is impossible to calculate the benefits that AK brings to the country through its influence, through respect, through the recognition of Russia.

    But over time, inevitably, the best, superior models of machines. And here comes the dilemma. On the one hand, it is necessary to adopt new, better models, and on the other hand, it is necessary to preserve the AK brand.

    Maybe it is worthwhile to produce new machines (eg AEK, or Abakan) under the brand name AK?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 25 September 2013 11: 04 New
      +5
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      on the other hand, it is necessary to maintain the AK brand.

      The Mosin rifle is also a brand, PPSh too, dwell on them?
      Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
      Maybe it is worthwhile to produce new machines (eg AEK, or Abakan) under the brand name AK?

      And how do we explain this to developers and manufacturers? You do better, but will it still be AK? Very honest and smart. Everything has its own time, Izhmash cannot move forward, it will remain, but only in history, it is impossible to live by its former merits and constantly live off the past.
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 25 September 2013 11: 17 New
        +3
        The Mosin rifle is also a brand, PPSh too, dwell on them?

        Why not? This is priceless capital created over the years. Like Coca-Cola, Uzi, Mercedes, BMW, Su ... Imagine if our modern models of submachine guns were sold on the international market under the brand name PPSh? In my opinion, success and sales would be better.

        And how do we explain this to developers and manufacturers?

        And what is more important - pride, or success? Here the planes are manufactured under the Su brand, and the designer is not indignant that they are not named after them. Or T -... tanks. Why do you think that small arms designers are people with exorbitantly hyped EGOs?

        he will remain, but only in history

        No. It is necessary to make maximum use of everything that has been created, which has been won over the years and decades.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 25 September 2013 11: 25 New
          +3
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          Imagine if our modern models of submachine guns were sold on the international market under the brand name PPSh?

          I don’t eat mushrooms.
          Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
          And what is more important - pride, or success? Here the planes are manufactured under the Su brand, and the designer is not indignant that they are not named after them. Or tanks T -...

          And here is pride? There are two enterprises that have developed different machines, why the hell should one of them, which developed the best weapons, fall under the other just because it has a well-known brand?
          1. Ivan_Ivanov
            Ivan_Ivanov 25 September 2013 11: 36 New
            +1
            ... why the hell did one of them, who developed the best weapon, fall under another ...

            Because it will benefit the country.
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 25 September 2013 11: 39 New
          0
          Uzi may be the brand, but it's already out of production. In addition, Uzi was tightly connected with IMI. And he also made an advertisement for him, which subsequently played a role in the sales of Galil and Tavor.
          1. Ivan_Ivanov
            Ivan_Ivanov 25 September 2013 11: 50 New
            +2
            The ultrasound is discontinued. But the brand remained.

            The EV (car) was also not produced for a long time, but the brand remained and Volkswagen began to produce supercars not under its own brand. He bought the brand EB.

            Brand gently cherish, develop and nurture. And the pride of designers is not the highest price to maintain a brand.
            You can call, for example, AK-14AEK, or AK-2000Abakan ...
  • kontrol
    kontrol 25 September 2013 10: 38 New
    +1
    again loot. all for the loot-new oligarch wants to stick to the state feeding. But it’s a good device and reliable, but not the best. Its reliability is just due to large tolerances. That’s why it is not afraid of the dirt of water and sand. Well and accuracy naturally suffers. But it’s not a sniper rifle, but an assault rifle for everyone. If to make its details accurate - it will wedge, and a complex technique in a direct collision is more likely a drawback, there is a high probability of failure. Yes, and maintenance is more difficult.
  • Vasia kruger
    Vasia kruger 25 September 2013 10: 42 New
    +3
    AEK is no longer a new machine, and therefore quite modified. But with the AK-12, not everything is clear. What is different from ak74m? (Well, if you remove the body kit and other decor).

    A-545 is not at all clear what, AEK roofing felts are modified, roofing felts are generally something completely new.
    Another thing scares. Well, they will not accept the AK-12, there are enough prerequisites for this, in my opinion, both obsolescence and the low quality of Izhevsk products, etc. The bad thing is that most likely without a government order the enterprise can simply fall apart. It was created at the time of the planned economy, and now we have the type of capitalism in full growth. I do not think that without the state, the Kalashnikov group will hold out.

    Another nuance, it is completely not clear why the conversation is only about the Ministry of Defense, why AEK and AK-12 are not trying to put it in the Ministry of Internal Affairs. It seems to me that there are enough organizations that have weapons and are supplied from completely different sources. MO, Ministry of Internal Affairs, min. Just, etc.

    But this is all IMHO of course.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 25 September 2013 11: 06 New
      +4
      Quote: Vasia Kruger
      The bad thing is that most likely without a state order, the enterprise can simply fall apart.

      Under a subcontract, they will collect the Kovrov machine gun.
      1. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 25 September 2013 11: 09 New
        0
        It is not excluded.
      2. Kurkin
        Kurkin 25 September 2013 16: 50 New
        0
        Yes, it will be so. Izhmash has enough power. At the same time, their fleet of machines will be updated due to this, well, technologies, components and parts, pulled up by the Kovrovites, and then they will implement them on their crafts. And then their (Kalashnikovskaya) balanced automation is apparently not finalized and inferior to Kovrovskaya, otherwise AK 12 would be made balanced. Or were they so short-sighted? Then this is the failure of the leadership of Izhmash!
    2. densh
      densh 25 September 2013 18: 57 New
      0
      In addition to AK, the concern has other products. There are also foreign orders, so I think they won’t be lost anyway.
    3. Rex
      Rex 25 September 2013 22: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Vasia Kruger
      why AEK and AK-12 are not trying to put it in the Ministry of Internal Affairs.


      Yes, since the 91st they’ve already gotten so much of everything ...
      More than one million units are already visible in warehouses.
      In special units of 5-10 trunks per brother.
      According to media reports, the Ministry of Internal Affairs (at least in small quantities, purchased almost all the samples that were created in 20.
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 25 September 2013 10: 51 New
    0
    Gentlemen, given how many times Izvestia was caught on ducks, then ... In addition, the news on the off site of the concern is the opposite.

    During preliminary tests of automatic machines in the caliber of 5,45x39 mm according to the RRC "Ratnik", which took place at TsNIITOCHMASH in the summer of 2013, samples A-545 of the plant named after Degtyareva and AK-12 development Concern "Kalashnikov". According to the test results, the AK-12 received a total quality score higher than the Kovrov sample, and had every chance of being recommended for state testing.
    AK-12 retained the simplicity of operation and production, and also adequately passed the resource test. According to the general designer of the Kalashnikov Concern Vladimir Zlobin, both submachine guns showed approximately the same results in accuracy of fire, while the AK-12 was more than a pound lighter than its competitor. Preference was given to the Kovrov developments only in connection with the fact that the machine guns of various calibers plant them. Degtyareva were created on the same constructive platform.
    AK-12 will also take part in state tests, the Kalashnikov Concern will be the source of their financing. According to the general director of the concern Konstantin Busygin, there is confidence that the AK-12 will withstand these tests and will be recommended for arming the Russian army.

    http://www.kalashnikovconcern.com/press/news/1086/#text
    So set aside the panic! as the French say.
    1. bunta
      bunta 25 September 2013 11: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: ShadowCat
      Preference was given to the Kovrov developments only in connection with the fact that the machine guns of various calibers plant them. Degtyareva were created on the same constructive platform.


      And then AK-12 was not declared as a universal platform for all calibers and schemes from pistols to easel machine guns? wink

      The show goes on? am
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 25 September 2013 13: 15 New
      0
      This is not panic, but grief.
  • USNik
    USNik 25 September 2013 11: 03 New
    +5
    AEK had to be adopted as early as 90 years. It is much more accurate when shooting in both short and long bursts, in terms of reliability it is almost inferior to the ak-74m (hello to super accurate Abakan), the guys who shot from AEK at the firing range clearly say that it is better. But the administrative resources and connections of Izhevsk residents have repeatedly drowned twin cities from Kovrov and this is bad, there is no fair competition no (PS: I hope that if AEK wins the competition, it will be adopted already with Picatinny rail)
  • Sunjar
    Sunjar 25 September 2013 11: 08 New
    +1
    Everything is somehow foggy with these anonymous sources and half-smacked press releases. On the one hand, AEK is a very good machine, but how reliable is it in real combat? In addition, apparently there are more details that require care, and therefore the cost is higher. Accuracy at AEK is really better, but AK-12 is also nothing now, but when the question arises about reliability, I have some doubts about AEK.
    In any case, the special forces will be supplied by AK-12. You can still send both machines to Syria. Let Basharov’s troops test him there, and life will put everything in its place.
    1. bunta
      bunta 25 September 2013 11: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: Sunjar
      In any case, the special forces will be delivered by AK-12


      Will not.
    2. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 25 September 2013 16: 33 New
      +4
      Let's arm the army with crowbars? One detail is ultra reliable and budget friendly. Or get the mosquitoes from the warehouse? AK also requires care, and also wedges, puts "chimneys" and "spits" when overheated, if it is not normal to take care of it.
    3. Rex
      Rex 25 September 2013 23: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Sunjar
      On the one hand, AEK is a very good machine, but how reliable is it in real combat?


      At least he was tested in Chechnya.
      After which they went positive reviews like:
      1 no complaints about reliability
      2 in one turn the entire store with 70 m to the target 50x40
      The revealed minus is long and time-consuming to clean compared to a conventional AK (comparable to AN-94)
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 25 September 2013 11: 17 New
    +3
    I am glad that the competition is between our gunsmiths. No Italians, French, etc. I would like not to kill 17 million Kalash lying in warehouses. Enough to destroy the weapon, it must be produced!
  • user
    user 25 September 2013 11: 19 New
    +2
    Only military operation can show which machine is better. Moreover, the exploitation of soldiers by conscripts.
  • wei
    wei 25 September 2013 11: 29 New
    +3
    I want to add my 5 kopecks about reliability
    In August 1981, Soviet arms designers in the framework of development work on the topic "Creating an assault rifle that is 1,5 times more efficient than an AK-74 assault rifle", better known under the Abakan code

    But the story of the AEK-971 machine did not end there. In the late nineties, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation again demanded weapons with balanced automation on which the Kovrov gunsmiths worked.
    The AEK-971 machine was again upgraded in accordance with the new requirements of the Moscow Region

    I’m thinking for 30 years it’s been tested to the floor of death already ...
  • Algor73
    Algor73 25 September 2013 11: 40 New
    +1
    According to the party of each in the troops, in a month to exchange and let the best win.
  • rlanry
    rlanry 25 September 2013 11: 50 New
    +1
    Not only is Izvestia, not only is the source anonymous, so is the author of the same article, D. Telmanov, the one who made sketches about the army’s purchases of badminton rackets, about the dissolution of the GRU and many others. How is it possible to build a discussion on the basis of information from such a garbage source?
  • bunta
    bunta 25 September 2013 12: 40 New
    +2
    I would not be surprised if in the near future we learn about the resignation of Zlobin.
  • iConst
    iConst 25 September 2013 13: 06 New
    0
    Quote: Algor73
    According to the party of each in the troops, in a month to exchange and let the best win.

    Such an approach is not permissible in principle. Question: who will test: motorized rifles, landing, special forces or tank crews (they also need it!)?

    Creating a universal weapon is impossible. The tasks are different.

    But Kalash has long been "sintered." It was created as a simple, reliable and cheap weapon for a poorly trained (yes!) Army. For the Red Army, which it remains to this day. He completed his task.

    The economic moment is crucial. It makes no sense to arm the army with expensive and high-quality weapons, the potential of which will not be used.

    One of the main problems of Kalashnikov is the cover of the receiver. She just sits on the latch and hangs out as she pleases. Now this place is used in advanced models of small arms for mounting sights and other adaptations. Look - Piccatini bars are usually installed there. And everything should be monolithic. Adjust the collimator after a simple cleaning - agree, a little inefficient :).
    1. viktorR
      viktorR 25 September 2013 19: 49 New
      +1
      Actually, it’s great that the calimator is on a special bar that is mounted on a dovetail, and there are no problems with the lid.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 25 September 2013 21: 54 New
        0
        Dovetail is still an attempt to overcome certain design flaws.
        1. 7ydmco
          7ydmco 25 September 2013 22: 57 New
          0
          Or design feature and nothing more smile
          And what are the design flaws?
    2. Assistant
      Assistant 25 September 2013 21: 31 New
      0
      One of the main problems of Kalashnikov is the cover of the receiver.


      And why it was impossible to place the Piccatini built-in bar behind a mechanical sight, on the upper part of the forearm? Actually, the top of the forend and make the bar so that the mechanical sight does not interfere. Yes, the bar is short. Yes, far from the eye, you can’t put an optical sight, only a collimator one. Yes, with the sight set, the forearm cannot be completely grasped. But you can put a collimator!
  • iConst
    iConst 25 September 2013 13: 37 New
    0
    Wrong: Picatinny rail
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 25 September 2013 14: 07 New
    +1
    It seems that everyone on the AN-94 already spat. :(
    1. Admiral 013
      Admiral 013 25 September 2013 15: 10 New
      +1
      Yes, like Vova and special forces still use it.
    2. luiswoo
      luiswoo 26 September 2013 03: 55 New
      0
      And the saddest thing is that it is simpler and more reliable than AEK in design (AEK, only a cuckoo is not enough - a pendulum and a cog) Although it is immediately clear that the culture of its production and use should be at the level.
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 25 September 2013 14: 09 New
    +3
    Here I have a silly civic argument about automatic small arms. In my opinion, in principle, one bullet is enough to incapacitate a soldier. Now, my reasoning, when shooting from a distance, a burst of 3-4 bullets, with a spread of 25-30 cm, at least one hits the target. If the spread is 5-10 cm, then if the scope is shot down, or if the soldier just couldn’t precisely aim in battle, the entire line will fly away. I agree when shooting single from a very good stable position, a small spread is better, but in battle, and especially in a dynamic one, let go in a 10cm circle, especially since if it’s past, what's the point? Although, of course, I am not a military man and maybe I do not think correctly.
    1. viktorR
      viktorR 25 September 2013 19: 51 New
      0
      There is something in this))) Only this spread of one hundred and two hundred meters will be significantly different, that is, the bursts can be fired further, and for close targets you can increase the spread yourself, and even in the direction you want!
  • Postovoi
    Postovoi 25 September 2013 14: 22 New
    +4
    After reading the article and the comments, in addition to (even earlier) reviewing all possible real videos about AEK, there is no doubt. If this time they don’t accept it, it will be another betrayal of interests. And personally, I really hope that justice will prevail this time.
    The army is moving more and more to a professional basis, which means that weapons must be appropriate. AEK - this is not the word an excellent machine, search the net (even here there will be enough uploaded videos), and see for yourself the facts, conclusions and results on the face. good
  • 1961NNN
    1961NNN 25 September 2013 14: 53 New
    +1
    AEK-971, won the tests in the AK-74, but Kalashnikov was behind it !!! He lobbied and the AK-74 was accepted!
    1. Droid
      Droid 26 September 2013 00: 22 New
      +1
      AEK won nothing. Especially with the AK74.
  • Admiral 013
    Admiral 013 25 September 2013 15: 03 New
    +1
    In general, the question of rearmament of the army was long ago raised in the 90s. Kalash already started to limp at that time, and in return both AEK and Abakan (incidentally being developed at the same time as ak) were offered, and both samples exceeded ak in some respects. But everyone remembers the main weakness of our M.O. MONEY and forgot about rearmament. In my opinion, all samples should be purchased and improved (one will go to the army for the other in special forces, etc.), but again the main problem is the same with the military uniform, MONEY (laundering, unwillingness to spend, etc., etc.). One gets the feeling that we do not have the Ministry of Defense, but some kind of military supermarket and real estate department all rolled into one!
  • _KM_
    _KM_ 25 September 2013 15: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Admiral 013
    Yes, like Vova and special forces still use it.


    I do not know. In bulk order, explosives are definitely not used.
  • Agent 008
    Agent 008 25 September 2013 15: 55 New
    0
    The best expert is our SOLDIER ... Give him both assault rifles and let him shoot them all day, and then he will say which is better! And the rest of the "experts", who may never even have shot from a weapon, simply protect someone’s interests, huge amounts of money! That's the whole story ...
  • Kurkin
    Kurkin 25 September 2013 16: 04 New
    0
    Here is a report from RT from Izhevsk on the day of the gunsmith Putin showed sets of "Warrior" for the fighting compartment. It is clearly audible how the speaker says: "automatic with balanced automation." Therefore, this is not AK 12. That is, AEK was chosen for demonstration of the finished "Warrior" in Izhmash’s room to the president, and this already says something.
    http://youtu.be/sP_cYTeffVc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP_cYTeffVc&feature=player_embedded#t=0
    1. saruman
      saruman 25 September 2013 17: 01 New
      0
      Yes exactly. And this is not an AK-107. This is the machine that is higher in the picture at Tjumenec72.
      1. Kurkin
        Kurkin 25 September 2013 17: 07 New
        0
        Yes of course.
  • Zhenya
    Zhenya 25 September 2013 16: 18 New
    0
    Now the question is, AEK, if accepted, will remain the same as 15 years ago? In fact, they do not represent anything new, but they offer goods that are already 35 years old.
    1. Kurkin
      Kurkin 25 September 2013 17: 00 New
      0
      Look at the video on my link and there are photos in the comments. It can be seen that this is not the same AEK that was in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. It can be seen that the sample was not buried, but worked and constantly modernized.
  • labendik
    labendik 25 September 2013 16: 59 New
    -5
    You won’t make a foreign car out of Lada, having covered it with Mercedes bumpers, Toyota wheel covers and stickers “super avto”.
    1. phantom359
      phantom359 25 September 2013 22: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: labendik
      You won’t make a foreign car out of Lada, having covered it with Mercedes bumpers, Toyota wheel covers and stickers “super avto”.

      You, I see, often used AK and its competitors, making such conclusions. In games.