Military Review

The body kit for "Kalash"

177
Kalashnikov assault rifle continues to be one of the most common samples of small weapons worldwide and the main rifle unit of the Russian infantry. Given this, this weapon is constantly being improved and modernized. One of the possible options for upgrading this weapon is to install Picatinny slats on it, which allow you to install various modern “body kit” on the AK, which improves product characteristics and its combat capabilities without changing the design.


Picatinny rail is a special bracket or rail track system that is used on small arms to unify the fastenings of various accessories, including laser sightings, tactical lights, bipods and various sights (collimator, optical). These strips are widely used in the armies of the NATO countries and comply with the STANAG 2324 standardization agreement. More recently, they have been registered on Russian small arms, in particular, on the new Izhevsk AK-12 machine gun.

Picatinny rail in cross section is a broad letter "T". All additional devices for small arms are installed on this bar, while there is the possibility of their easy movement on the rail back and forth or opposite to rigid fixation with the help of a vice, levers or bolts. In order to avoid the displacement of the fixed attachments during recoil, possible deformation of the attachment during thermal expansion and cooling of the weapon barrel during firing, as well as for mounting fasteners in the Picatinny rail, special transverse slots are made at regular intervals. The dimensions of these slots are standardized and a large number of attachments use them for fixing against movements.

The body kit for "Kalash"

The advantage of the Picatinny rail is the fact that they can be installed not only on new types of weapons, which, of course, include AK-12, but also old mass-produced models - different versions of AK-74. Last year, NPO Izhmash presented to the military 4 a variant of modernizing the most popular at the moment Russian AK-74. The cost of modernization directly depended on the chosen option and was supposed to be from 2-x to 10-ti thousand rubles for one machine.

The simplest version of the AK-74 modernization could be carried out directly in the military workshops, without withdrawing the machine guns from the units. This option provided for installation on the forearm of the Picatinny rail machine. Thanks to this decision, it would be possible to install electron-optical, optical, collimator sights, as well as laser designators, flashlights and other “body kit” on the weapon. In addition, AK-74 had to get the side bar, which is suitable for mounted devices with dovetail mount.

The most difficult version of the AK-74 modernization involved working in the factory. This option provided for the installation of the front folding handle, barrel lining with Picatinny rail, ergonomic pistol grip, telescopic butt, as well as a special magazine with the ability to visually control the number of cartridges. At the meeting of the interdepartmental working group at the military-industrial commission, it was decided to test the machine in the maximum version of modernization.


Currently, most of the slats for Russian-made AK, as well as its legal and illegal copies (China, Bulgaria, Venezuela, etc.) and Saiga carbines, designed on its base and selling well in the US market, are offered by American by firms. Below are a few popular solutions from US manufacturers.

AKARS - AK Adaptive Rail System

The American company Parabellum Armament presented its version of the Picatinny rail for mounting various sights on AK series AKARS - AK Adaptive Rail System. This plate has a hinge device and is attached to the AK in 4-x points on top of the receiver cover. It is worth noting that the front part of this strip is structurally made as an element of a metal sight, which is installed on the AK still at the factory and which must first be removed. After attaching the AKARS strap to the AK, you can install a variety of modern optics on it. This system allows you to easily remove the receiver's cover for servicing and cleaning the machine gun; there is no knocking down of the sight settings and there is no need for a new calibration.





Earlier, a representative of Blackheart International (engaged in its sales) spoke about this bar as follows: “The AK and its modifications have never been“ friendly ”to consumers who would like to improve the accuracy of the weapon by mounting modern sights. Previously, various strips have been created that ensured the installation and adjustment of optics on the lid of the receiver of the machine gun (the most ergonomic position for the sight), however, there was a problem with the settings of the sight, which was simply discarded. Now, thanks to AKARS, you can use the most current sights at the moment to improve the accuracy of the machine without resetting their settings. ”

Mounting bracket AKRR2

The AKRR2 mounting bracket for Kalashnikov assault rifles was introduced by Strike Industries and allows you to mount an 2 sight on the AK at once. A feature of this strap is the ability to mount a second sight, which is mounted in front of the main one at an angle of 45 degrees. The AKRR2 bar, in fact, is a further development of the AKARS bar and has three main structural elements: the base, the main mounting bar and the mounting bar at an angle of 45 degrees. In this case, the base is attached directly to the machine and is a support for fastening other strips. It is attached to the machine with 3-x hexagonal screws.

The bar at an angle of 45 degrees can be fixed both on the right and on the left side of the weapon and is ideal for mounting small collimator sights. At the same time, the main straight bar is designed for mounting Aimpoint and EO tech sights, as well as some types of optical sights. The AKRR2 fixing strip is made from aviation aluminum and subjected to the anodizing procedure (the process of creating an oxide film on the metal surface to give it additional protective properties). According to representatives of Strike Industries, the AKRR2 bar represents a new level of adaptation of modern sights on the Kalashnikov machine platform. The cost of this strap in the US market 59,95 dollar.


Options AKRR2:
1 base;
1 main guide bar;
1 bar at an angle of 45 degrees;
1 nut;
6 M3 flat head screws;
3 screws M3 with head sack;
1 screw M3 with oval head.

Features:
The receiver box can be removed with mounted strap AKRR2;
Ease of installation of a level;
High adaptability to the requirements of the shooter;
Adjustable base.

Another solution from Strike Industries on the Kalashnikov assault rifle market is a conversion kit for replacing a standard AK metal sighting system with a Picatinny rail, which allows you to install improved scopes and a variety of low-profile optics on the product in the future. The cost of this set is 45 dollars.


The AK conversion kit consists of the following elements:
- Guide bar;
- 1 nut;
- 3 cap screws to flush;
- 1 screw with oval head.

Features of the conversion kit:
- Ability to adjust (up / down, right / left);
- Installation in just one step;
- Plank from aviation aluminum;
- It is recommended to use a low profile sight with a red dot.

KOP Plank - Kalashnikov Optics Platform

Another solution to modernize the Kalashnikov is to use the KOP-Kalashnikov Optics Platform, which is manufactured by Sabrewerks (Wisconsin, USA). This plank represents another approach to solving the old problem with the installation of various optical and sighting equipment on the Kalashnikov assault rifle. Most of the previously manufactured AK, for example, made in China, is absolutely not suitable for the installation of such equipment. Later versions of automata, such as the Romanian WASR 10, have an initially installed mounting plate located on the left side of the receiver and intended for installation on an optics machine. But even the presence of the mount does not allow to use the whole range of optical and sighting equipment on AK. Moreover, a variety of mounts can create difficulties when mounting the aiming point.


Kalashnikov Optics Platform is devoid of these shortcomings. First, it is required to undergo a slight change to the standard sight of the machine gun, dismantling the rear sight. Secondly, the KOP bar includes 2 parts. The first of which is the base, is installed in place of the dismantled staff pillar, and the second is installed with the desired sight and is connected with the aid of an easily removable pin with the first one. All elements of the strap are made of aluminum. One of the additional options is mounting on a KOP bar Picatinny rail. In addition, the KOP strap allows you to install and classic metal pillar.

According to the developers and a number of users who have experienced KOP strips, this mount is tough, there are no clearances when handling weapons, and the mount does not interfere with the maintenance of the machine during cleaning. The base of the KOP bar in the US market is from 121 to 131 dollars, and the base-mounted part, depending on the version, is sold at prices from 81 to 159 dollars.

Bracket for sight AK from the company RS Regulate

RS Regulate has introduced its new bracket for mounting scopes on AK series machines. This is the 2 generation of mounting brackets for optics, which feature is a smaller thickness, a new fixation system, and, as the developers themselves say, increased product reliability compared to a similar Russian design. The new bracket from RS Regulate allows you to mount the sight in the center of the machine. The bracket has a thickness of 3 mm less than the earlier version, while the new mount is modular. Total consumer 3 type brackets with different lengths of the mounting surface. This solution allows, depending on the characteristics of the body of the shooter, to move the sight closer or farther from itself. It also allows the use of ACOG or BCO sights. The price of the new fastener is about 145 dollars and depends on the type of slats preferred. Additional strips can be purchased at the price of 45 dollars.



Information sources:
-http: //www.guns.yfa1.ru
-http: //lenta.ru/news/2012/09/28/ak74
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org
Author:
177 comments
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  1. Denis
    Denis 17 September 2013 07: 32 New
    15
    Weapons could be equipped with electron-optical, optical, collimator sights, as well as laser target indicators, flashlights and other “body kit”
    They are undeniably good, but the best AK kit is that inhumane bayonet-knife
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 17 September 2013 09: 20 New
      +5
      You run with him from the beginning to the enemy.
      1. bazilio
        bazilio 17 September 2013 11: 35 New
        12
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        You run with him from the beginning to the enemy.

        and if it so happened that the enemy himself ran to you, jumped out of the corner and so on? And if you covertly move into positions and accidentally encounter a watch, if you shoot, the effect of surprise will disappear, throw the machine and get the knife for a long time. With a bayonet-knife, this question is solved more simply.
        1. Hon
          Hon 17 September 2013 11: 57 New
          +5
          Quote: bazilio
          and if it so happened that the enemy himself ran to you, jumped out of the corner and so on? And if you covertly move into positions and accidentally encounter a watch, if you shoot, the effect of surprise will disappear, throw the machine and get the knife for a long time. With a bayonet-knife, this question is solved more simply.

          That is, instead of the necessary grenade launcher, you need to fasten a bayonet-knife that can be useful in a hypothetical way? If stealthily advancing in position, use PBS. The patrol is probably blind and deaf, once allowed to approach the distance of the bayonet laughing
          1. bazilio
            bazilio 17 September 2013 12: 54 New
            10
            Quote: Hon
            That is, instead of the desired grenade launcher, it is necessary to fasten a bayonet-knife which g

            But is the grenade launcher in the state relies on each fighter?
            The same thing about PBS - an ordinary infantryman does not have PBS.

            Quote: Hon
            The patrol is probably blind and deaf, once allowed to approach the distance of the bayonet

            In a forest thicket or jungle. Not necessarily a watch, maybe just a reconnaissance unit.
            I think it’s too early to write off a bayonet-knife.
            1. Hon
              Hon 17 September 2013 13: 08 New
              +2
              I imagine the situation fighters are walking through the territory where you can stumble upon the enemy and you think the raven, and he also thinks, as a result they notice each other only when they face each other, uv it's good that the bayonet is fastened wassat
              1. Eugeniy_369
                Eugeniy_369 17 September 2013 13: 15 New
                +3
                Quote: Hon
                phew it's good that the bayonet is fastened

                Yeah, and immediately relieved yes .
            2. cth; fyn
              cth; fyn 17 September 2013 17: 28 New
              +1
              I think it’s too early to write off a bayonet-knife.

              In extreme cases, the fighter will have a good knife with which to cut sausages, cut shavings to make a bonfire, open the stew (although you can break it, if you take it for a break), but you never know what a knife can be useful for, even sharpen pencils and that thing necessary.
              1. Svyatoslavovich
                Svyatoslavovich 20 September 2013 12: 14 New
                +2
                The most interesting thing is that neither shaving shavings nor cutting sausages, a bayonet with a knife will not work, a unique item. In general, the word knife should be excluded from the device attached to the AK, "NOZZLE-WIRE-KASALKA" with the effect of an unexpected break is a more appropriate name. The bayonet is absolutely necessary, but the quality leaves much to be desired, not only the best, but radically different.
              2. alexbil2
                alexbil2 April 2 2015 13: 17 New
                0
                I would like to see a man who is sharpening pencils with a bayonet-knife AK !? Did you have to hold a bayonet in your hands? Cut the sausage and open the canned food without any problems! But to sharpen a pencil, it would be more correct to say to crumble a pencil.
            3. mirag2
              mirag2 18 September 2013 16: 52 New
              0
              The bayonet-knife cannot be written off, because it is used not only as a "bayonet".
        2. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 17 September 2013 13: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: bazilio
          and if it so happened that the enemy himself ran to you, jumped out of the corner and so on? And if you secretly advance to a position and accidentally encounter a watch, if

          If yes, if ... remember about the brush laughing .
          1. washi
            washi 17 September 2013 13: 48 New
            +3
            Taiga is big. There is more effective and staggered, sometimes automatic
          2. unclevad
            unclevad 17 September 2013 16: 46 New
            +1
            And trailed boomerang! Good thing, reusable. laughing
            1. bazilio
              bazilio 17 September 2013 17: 13 New
              +5
              In vain are the comrades joking. The US Department of Defense abandoned the bayonet-knife, but at the same time "for the skillful use of the bayonet, Captain Millett was awarded the Medal of Honor for the destruction of the enemy firing point at altitude 180." this is from here- http://topwar.ru/7593-bezalternativnyy-shtyk-nozh.html
              Do not forget about the melee, and there the bayonet-knife will be very useful.
            2. Starover_Z
              Starover_Z 18 September 2013 20: 47 New
              -1
              And I still forgive remembered the noble weapons of the Russian warrior smile
    2. dark_65
      dark_65 17 September 2013 20: 25 New
      -1
      Have you tried with a bayonet with a knife against a grenade launcher?
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 18 September 2013 07: 47 New
        0
        But what about the grenade launcher against the tank? Comparison inappropriate.
  2. Ruslan
    Ruslan 17 September 2013 07: 50 New
    +3
    Why ammunition counter at the store? so that it was more expensive? just make them transparent, with labels on the store itself. and of course sights and flashlights are needed. only the butt increases too much weight, it seems to me.
    1. Denis
      Denis 17 September 2013 08: 04 New
      +3
      Quote: ruslan
      only the butt increases too much weight, it seems to me
      But what about the emphasis when shooting?
      Besides melee is not bad
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 30 New
        +2
        If there is hand-to-hand combat, then something is missing in the preparation and organization.
    2. PSih2097
      PSih2097 17 September 2013 11: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: ruslan
      only the butt increases too much weight, it seems to me.

      telescopic butt lighter than regular grams by 200-300 ...
      AK-47 Strikeforce Fixed Stock
      6 adjustable butt lengths with adjustable cheek and butt plate
      - 6 position folding butt
      - Detachable horizontal and vertical butt cheek
      - Removable butt plate
      - Butt plate made of non-slip elastic rubber
      Material: DuPont ® Extreme withstands high temperatures and extreme operating conditions.
      Lifetime warranty
      1. heathen
        heathen 17 September 2013 18: 32 New
        +3
        1. What is the impact resistance of this butt with a variety of removable adjustable parts compared to a solid unregulated product?
        2. What is its cost, again, compared to a solid product?

        Having made a small calculation, we get that if such a butt is acceptable for small groups of special forces, where individual adjustment of weapons is important, then the feasibility of their mass use throughout the army is doubtful.
        1. Joker
          Joker 17 September 2013 20: 59 New
          0
          1. What is the impact resistance of this butt with a variety of removable adjustable parts compared to a solid unregulated product?
          2. What is its cost, again, compared to a solid product?

          1) Carry an ax with you, it's even better than a solid butt. What are you going to do to them? Doors knock out? So now they are metal everywhere, with an ax and you can’t do anything.
          2) Buy yourself synthetic shorts and socks from China, they are cheaper and it doesn’t matter that you have legs and one place will fall off, save for something. The telescopic butt is so good that you can customize it for yourself, and this is a convenience, plus a bonus to accuracy.

          And in general, judging your logic, you can attack with a sword and armor or with a sling and pebbles, cheap and easy. It’s because of people like you and we don’t develop the country technically, because you, like stumps of mossy, think everything in the opposite direction for a couple of centuries, probably laughed at the time of the UAV? Yes? Well, that laughed.
          1. mirag2
            mirag2 18 September 2013 17: 02 New
            -1
            I'm always talking about this! It's great that you said: "for a couple of centuries in the opposite direction" and "at one time he laughed at the UAV" - exactly, exactly! Exactly the kind that merged with the ancient technologies of Izhmash and pulls a new rifle from us -inconvenient, expensive. Well, let AEK a little more expensive, but how many lives it will save, each surviving our soldier-killed (killed) enemy (enemies) on the battlefield, a speedy victory. That means, small arms are a little more expensive.
    3. Apostle
      Apostle 17 September 2013 11: 28 New
      +5
      Why ammunition counter at the store? so that it was more expensive? just make them transparent, with labels on the store itself.
      The last 3-5 rounds of ammunition are enough to equip the tracer and do not spend money on modernizing the store at all.
      1. Suvorov000
        Suvorov000 17 September 2013 11: 40 New
        +3
        It’s even better to drive tracer cartridges 25-28, because when the tracer shot mute cartridges in the store in your case, and there are two more cartridges in the barrel, the cartridge should always be when you reboot
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 31 New
        0
        Modernization of the store is not only an account of cartridges. Almost the majority of problems because of them
        1. washi
          washi 17 September 2013 13: 51 New
          +2
          Just a matter of habit. On the machine, the number of rounds is counted. He finished one collision - change the store. Time to eat recharge shops.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 54 New
            -1
            It does not interfere
  3. Atenon
    Atenon 17 September 2013 08: 04 New
    -6
    A matter of taste, convenience, but kit in my opinion disfigure AK.
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 17 September 2013 09: 21 New
      10
      The weapon does not have to be beautiful. It must be effective.
      1. RBLip
        RBLip 17 September 2013 11: 04 New
        +3
        weapons should be both beautiful and effective.
        1. Hon
          Hon 17 September 2013 12: 00 New
          +1
          Quote: RBLip
          weapons should be both beautiful and effective.

          Then Yudashkin needs to order the development of the machine
          1. RBLip
            RBLip 17 September 2013 12: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: Hon
            Then Yudashkin needs to order the development of the machine

            laughing Yes, I do not mean that. I heard the idea that beautiful technique works better. although of course the concepts of beauty are different for everyone ...
            1. Witch
              Witch 17 September 2013 14: 43 New
              +3
              This was once said by Tupolev and the king of fighters - N.N. Polikarpov - ... a beautiful plane flies well ...
            2. Joker
              Joker 17 September 2013 21: 00 New
              0
              Yes, I do not mean that. I heard the idea that beautiful technique works better. although of course the concepts of beauty are different for everyone ...

              Yes, you all correctly said, the weapon must be, even must be beautiful.
    2. SHILO
      SHILO 17 September 2013 09: 21 New
      0
      tenON

      A matter of taste, convenience, but kit in my opinion disfigure AK.


      AK disfigure is problematic. If it’s ugly, it’s: Parabellum Armament, Strike Industries, Sabrewerks. Like we cannot stamp our entih piece of iron !? request
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 17 September 2013 11: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: SHILO
        tenON

        A matter of taste, convenience, but kit in my opinion disfigure AK.


        AK disfigure is problematic. If it’s ugly, it’s: Parabellum Armament, Strike Industries, Sabrewerks. Like we cannot stamp our entih piece of iron !? request

        go to zenitco.ru and compare prices with any Western body kit manufacturing office ...
    3. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 17 September 2013 09: 28 New
      +6
      Dear AtenON, sorry but minus. What is the matter of taste? Is this a weapon that should be functional. Did you communicate with the paddle the last time? Will we still live with the concepts of the beginning of the 20th century? We are sick of doing crazy hands - specialists buy a kit at their own expense (on redo their money-so that it’s not necessary to go with a club) who do not have the means to get out with the right hands: by hook or by crook, we found (who had the opportunity) collimators from RPGs — the accuracy of shooting increases by several times (at least I confidently worked with him 300- 500 meters - well, sorry not everyone to be Voroshilov arrows from the bar)
      1. Srgsoap
        Srgsoap 17 September 2013 09: 52 New
        13
        And you are a big plus. And about the body kit, we have alas ... And for the M4A1 ready-made kits, choose what you need for your task. I understand that I will grab the cons, but the ergonomics and accuracy of the M4A1 are better, even without collimators.
        1. Zeev
          Zeev 17 September 2013 16: 05 New
          +6
          For AK, ready-made body kit has long been produced. With picatinny rail, handles, butts, mounts, etc.
          http://www.caatactical.com/viewKit.asp?ID=219&catID=102
      2. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 13: 24 New
        +1
        ..... and in more detail about the calimator and 500 meters, please .....
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 17 September 2013 23: 51 New
          0
          Quote: Rosomaha67
          ..... and in more detail about the collimator and 500 meters, please .....

          if you look at the picture above, you will see the collimator Aimpoint Comp M4 2MOA / QRP2

          and the 3XMAG enlarging nozzle, so that 500 meters is enough, you still remember about ACOG ...
      3. washi
        washi 17 September 2013 13: 58 New
        0
        Quote: zadorin1974
        Dear AtenON, sorry but minus. What is the matter of taste? Is this a weapon that should be functional. Did you communicate with the paddle the last time? Will we still live with the concepts of the beginning of the 20th century? We are sick of doing crazy hands - specialists buy a kit at their own expense (on redo their money-so that it’s not necessary to go with a club) who do not have the means to get out with the right hands: by hook or by crook, we found (who had the opportunity) collimators from RPGs — the accuracy of shooting increases by several times (at least I confidently worked with him 300- 500 meters - well, sorry not everyone to be Voroshilov arrows from the bar)

        And it’s bad that for 300 meters you can’t get their AK without being able to get into the body. Conclusion: poor preparation and knowledge of His weapons.
        You are not a warrior who knows his weapons from and to. You are a shooter.
    4. washi
      washi 17 September 2013 13: 53 New
      0
      Quote: AtenON
      A matter of taste, convenience, but kit in my opinion disfigure AK.

      Ponte basically. But there are those who do this for convenience.
      If you do not know how to use, then no bars will help.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 55 New
        +6
        Quote: Vasya
        If you do not know how to use, then no bars will help.

        Naturally. And if you know how - this is an increase in the chance to hit the enemy.
  4. builder
    builder 17 September 2013 09: 37 New
    22
    Quote: Denis
    Besides melee is not bad

    There is such an old joke
    The paratrooper teaches recruits hand-to-hand combat.
    - We have studied with you various tricks and strokes. And now, actually, let's talk about the moment when you need hand-to-hand combat: if you lose a machine gun, a gun, a knife, a flask, a shovel and stand in an open area where you can not take a stone or a stick, then you need to find the same fucker like you, and engage in hand-to-hand combat.
    Body kit for Kalash
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 17 September 2013 11: 16 New
      10
      Quote: stroitel
      - We have studied with you various tricks and strokes. And now, actually, let's talk about the moment when you need hand-to-hand combat


      It seems that in Alpha’s instructions it was- in melee the one with the most rounds wins
    2. washi
      washi 17 September 2013 14: 02 New
      0
      The melee converged and the troops will converge for a very long time.
      If really warriors, not tourists who went to rest (as now in Syria)
      1. RBLip
        RBLip 17 September 2013 15: 44 New
        +6
        Quote: Vasya
        The melee converged and the troops will converge for a very long time.

        No wonder they say heroism is the cover of someone’s mistakes.
        1. cth; fyn
          cth; fyn 17 September 2013 17: 33 New
          0
          No wonder they say heroism is the cover of someone’s mistakes.

          Most often, politicians, as they say: when guns speak, politicians are silent, it seems to me that they are silent because they already have nothing to say and the situation has reached a deadlock politically.
    3. heathen
      heathen 17 September 2013 18: 39 New
      +2
      Shitty this paratrooper knew the Combat Regulations of the Ground Forces.
      Meanwhile, it says that
      “Hand-to-hand combat is a form of close combat with the use of martial arts by the warring parties various types of weapons, items of equipment, improvised means, as well as without them at distances of direct contact with the task of defeating each other "
  5. kirpich
    kirpich 17 September 2013 10: 17 New
    +5
    Quote: zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 (4) RU Today, 09:28 ↑ ↓

    Dear AtenON, sorry but minus. What is the matter of taste? Is this a weapon that should be functional. Did you communicate with the paddle the last time? Will we still live with the concepts of the beginning of the 20th century? We are sick of doing crazy hands - specialists buy a kit at their own expense (on remodel their money, so there wasn’t to go with a club


    Dear zadorin1974, I put a minus for you. You refute yourself, first write that the weapon should be functional, and immediately talk about the "paddle". Specialists, that's why they are specialists, to customize individual weapons for themselves and install at least a reactive installation. But the "paddle" must be functional, ie. the kid came to the army, took the oath, gave him a machine gun (without body kits) and he must learn how to handle him.
    Z.Y. And, when the kid becomes a contractor or special, and they fix an individual weapon to him, then let him weigh him up with any body kit (sorry for the tautology).
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 17 September 2013 10: 38 New
      0
      Dear zadorin1974, I put a minus for you. You refute yourself, first write that the weapon should be functional, and immediately talk about the "paddle". Specialists, that's why they are specialists, to customize individual weapons for themselves and install at least a reactive installation. But the "paddle" must be functional, ie. the kid came to the army, took the oath, gave him a machine gun (without body kits) and he must learn how to handle him.
      Z.Y. And, when the kid becomes a contractor or special, and they fix an individual weapon to him, then let him weigh him up with any body kit (sorry for the tautology).


      There is one thing to all of this. Why do we always think that the infantry should be less trained and equipped than any special forces fucked in the ass? SWAT wins wars huh?
      1. bazilio
        bazilio 17 September 2013 11: 28 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        There is one thing to all of this. Why do we always think that the infantry should be less trained and equipped than any special forces fucked in the ass? SWAT wins wars huh?

        Why so categorically. Infantry is a hard worker. Yes, the main work is entrusted to the infantry. But special forces for that and special purposes, which would perform special tasks. consequently, their training should be more serious, and special weapons. What do you think, how much time do you need to spend on training an infantryman and how much on training a commando? The infantry is trained no worse, the infantry training is less voluminous in content. For example, why would an infantryman have reconnaissance skills. sabotage activities? Yes, if every infantryman possesses such skills, this is certainly a plus. but how much resources and time do you need to spend to educate everyone? by the same logic, each infantryman needs to be trained to manage all types of equipment, to shoot from artillery systems, etc.
        1. max702
          max702 17 September 2013 12: 42 New
          +9
          How much time and resources are you talking about? At least the very least, with a collimator, can learn how to shoot no harder than with an open sight, and if this increases the accuracy by at least 7-10%, then it’s worth it in the end, it’s just money, why in the US army a soldier is dressed in all the best, armed even with expensive but modern weapons, fed high quality? Everything is just insurance for one soldier paid in the event of the death of 1 mln.u., but how much do we pay for the death of a conscript? That's when the Ministry of Defense will pay sane money for losses from its pocket then everything will be fine and modern weapons, uniforms, protective equipment and so on. How much does it cost to raise a person up to 18 years old to teach him basic things and skills and shave it all because I feel sorry for the money in the equivalent of 3-5 thousand dollars?
          1. bazilio
            bazilio 17 September 2013 13: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: max702
            How much time and resources are you talking about? At least the very least, with the collimator, will learn how to shoot no harder than with an open sight, and if this increases the accuracy of shooting by at least 7-10% then it’s worth it in the end it’s just money, why in the US army a soldier is dressed in all the best, armed even with expensive but modern weapons, fed high quality? Everything is just insurance for one soldier paid in the event of the death of 1 mln.u.

            You're right. I agree that collimators will definitely be a plus for everyone. But now tell me, is the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ready to invest money on such luxury as collimators. It may sound rude, but it seems to me that when choosing a fin. costs or lives of conscripts, for the Moscow Region the financial institution will be inclined towards saving money.
          2. washi
            washi 17 September 2013 14: 08 New
            +2
            Recall 1941, 1812, 1905, 1855, etc.
            It was not even the bastards who fought. The people fought. He fought than he gets.
            The conscript must be able to shoot from everything and hit. Why make school easier? On the contrary, it must be weighted.
            1. Hon
              Hon 17 September 2013 14: 18 New
              +1
              And who prevents learning without a collimator?
  6. Massik
    Massik 17 September 2013 10: 43 New
    +3
    All bodywork is a matter of taste and the task to be performed, he was familiar with the ensign; he fired from AK 7.62 1967 without any collimators and arms better than the young ones from the sophisticated 74x.
  7. Sochi
    Sochi 17 September 2013 10: 50 New
    +4
    I don’t know, but all these body kits ... For specialists, it may be very necessary, but for a simple fighter, an artilleryman, a sapper, and many more who need it, are extra stray that we still need to be able to use, which also have weight and you need to carry them on yourself ...
    1. Hon
      Hon 17 September 2013 12: 26 New
      +2
      Well, a collimator is useful to any fighter who has to shoot, a shot more accurately and faster, that is, it can save a life.
      1. Sochi
        Sochi 17 September 2013 13: 46 New
        +3
        flop into the mud, with a collimator, or wet it in a dirty river, or else smear it with mud, which is quite realistic in combat conditions and while you wipe it ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 48 New
          +4
          Have you ever worked with modern collimators?
          1. Sochi
            Sochi 17 September 2013 14: 51 New
            +1
            I was on a hunt with the guys (I’m not a hunter myself, I just wandered around for company), I blurted a peasant at the collimator with a dirt, it was a mate ... and cleaned for a long time. The collimator is expensive.
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 17 September 2013 15: 03 New
              -1
              Quote: Sochi
              The collimator is expensive.

              A decent collimator costs 8-10tyr, I think for the army it is not so expensive, if purchased in large quantities, it is even cheaper.
              1. Sochi
                Sochi 17 September 2013 15: 25 New
                0
                I didn’t ask about the price, but the man was yelling like a dead man ... And yes, the collimator thing is convenient faster and easier to aim, but like everything has its drawbacks.
              2. PSih2097
                PSih2097 18 September 2013 00: 00 New
                0
                Quote: Vladimirets
                Quote: Sochi
                The collimator is expensive.

                A decent collimator costs 8-10tyr, I think for the army it is not so expensive, if purchased in large quantities, it is even cheaper.

                Seriously? Where are these prices for decent collimators?
                ACOG 4x from Trijicon - about $ 2000, AimPoint or EOTech - $ 1 plus magnifying nozzle as much ...
                1. Rumata
                  Rumata 18 September 2013 00: 21 New
                  +2
                  Quote: PSih2097
                  Seriously? Where are these prices for decent collimators?
                  ACOG 4x from Trijicon - about $ 2000, AimPoint or EOTech - $ 1 plus magnifying nozzle as much ...

                  Better is simpler, but more reliable and cheaper.
                  Meprolight Mepro M21 costs 500 bucks, without the bells and whistles, but its FIGs break, plus cheap to operate and repair. If you take in bulk and a lot, you can take 370-400 apiece ... 50 pieces is a little more than $ 000 million, is this a lot for Russia?
                  This is a plus of callimators, for example, they are relatively cheap. The simplest x4 optics from Tridzhikon, costs $ 1000 and above, a calligor at the same Tridzhi can be found for 400 ...
                  Z.Y
                  Quote: PSih2097
                  ACOG 4x from Trijicon - about $ 2000

                  This is not a calimator, EMNIP ...
                  1. mirag2
                    mirag2 18 September 2013 17: 17 New
                    0
                    Mepro is not worth the money, it is better to take the Chinese.
                2. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 18 September 2013 08: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: PSih2097
                  Seriously? Where are these prices for decent collimators?
                  ACOG 4x from Trijicon - about $ 2000, AimPoint or EOTech - $ 1 plus magnifying nozzle as much ...

                  You have found the most expensive and popular brands, especially since
                  Quote: Rumata
                  This is not a calimator, EMNIP ...
              3. Massik
                Massik 18 September 2013 14: 56 New
                0
                mmm, even Thread-A costs 17-20 thousand rubles, of course there are a lot of hunting and amateur sights for 8-15 thousand rubles, but they are of very uneven quality and they must be shot often.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 September 2013 16: 09 New
              0
              I ask - did you work with modern military closed-type collimators? Or how? Or do you think that if there is a dirt on the iron fly, will something be different?
              1. Sochi
                Sochi 17 September 2013 16: 18 New
                +1
                Wipe and blow on the bag - a huge difference. I wrote a little earlier that I did not use such devices. When I was serving, I was armed with AKM, without any bells and whistles and worked very well, and hit exactly where I needed in any conditions.
                1. Zeev
                  Zeev 17 September 2013 17: 29 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Sochi
                  Wipe and blow on the bag - a huge difference. I wrote a little earlier that I did not use such devices

                  That's it. And I, as a user of a collimator sight, I can say that it is not cleaned faster than an arrester clogged with dirt)))
        2. Hon
          Hon 17 September 2013 13: 57 New
          0
          To remove it, you need a couple of seconds, the open scope also needs to be cleaned if mud is covered up.
          1. Sochi
            Sochi 17 September 2013 14: 59 New
            +1
            Duc, and the conversation that there are no these couple of seconds.
            1. cth; fyn
              cth; fyn 17 September 2013 17: 40 New
              +1
              I agree with Sochi that the usual sight is much quicker to clean, blew on it and all the dirt flew away, and the collimator needs to be wiped, cleaned, and you can’t change the distance on it so quickly, but then the whole thing was thrown and ready from 300 to 100 and vice versa to 500, everything is simple and clear, only you need to learn this, get used to, practice. although it should be recognized that with a collimator it will be easier, you see a little dot there and you get there, although simpler does not mean better.
              1. Massik
                Massik 18 September 2013 14: 59 New
                +2
                In fact, even the middle arrow does not need to throw the whole pillar, it is easier to remember the excess of the trajectory and shift the aiming point ..
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 17 September 2013 18: 11 New
        +4
        Quote: Hon
        Well, a collimator is useful to any fighter ...

        I once watched the mortars in the mountains. One dragged the barrel on itself, the other a base plate, the rest dragged mines. In addition to all this, they had unloading with ammunition for machine guns and the machine guns themselves, each. Something did not create the impression that they lacked collimators.
        1. bunta
          bunta 18 September 2013 12: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Something did not create the impression that they lacked collimators.

          and "tactical" handles wink
      3. Penek
        Penek 18 September 2013 21: 56 New
        0
        Is any fighter a student with an urgent installment plan? They beat it, but 50% of the soldiers don’t know why the letter P is on the aiming plate of AK. Maybe they still have to implant optics in the eye?
        1. Zeev
          Zeev 19 September 2013 15: 36 New
          0
          You need to learn correctly, and everyone will know everything.
  8. kirpich
    kirpich 17 September 2013 11: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
    There is one thing to all of this. Why do we always think that the pehtura should be less trained and equipped


    Because they think so in all countries of the world. There are elite troops (guards, special forces, blue, green, land
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 17 September 2013 11: 12 New
      +1
      Because they think so in all countries of the world. There are elite troops (guards, special forces, blue, green, land

      Which countries? If in Bantustan or Congo or North Korea, then this is their problem. But there is no such amers. There, infantry and sso differ only in tasks. But their weapons and equipment are the same.
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 17 September 2013 11: 36 New
        0
        I apologize, for some reason my answer was cut off.
        (guard, special forces, blue, green, speckled and other berets), but there is ordinary infantry (the so-called cannon fodder). Now imagine that the infantry battalion is armed with sophisticated small arms, and accordingly trained. What will be called such a battalion? That's right, SPETSNAZ battalion. And his tasks will be different than that of the infantry.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 38 New
          +2
          Wrong. Conventional infantry is armed with normal weapons with collimators, trigicons, etc. This is no longer bells and whistles, this is reality.
          1. PSih2097
            PSih2097 18 September 2013 00: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Pimply
            Conventional infantry is armed with normal weapons with collimators, trigicons, etc. This is no longer bells and whistles, this is reality.

            which really cost a lot ...
        2. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 17 September 2013 13: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: kirpich
          Now imagine that the infantry battalion is armed with sophisticated small arms, and accordingly trained. What will be called such a battalion? That's right, SPETSNAZ battalion. And his tasks will be different than that of the infantry.

          You have interesting logic. A battalion of trained infantry and will be an infantry battalion, only with much greater effectiveness. Our stereotype has long been rooted that a squelch in an old worn camouflage, two sizes larger in boots and a peeling machine gun is a motorized rifle, and a strong guy with high-quality gear and special weapons is special forces. Correctly wrote above. what
          Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
          infantry and sso differ only in tasks. But their weapons and equipment are the same.

          Specura possesses additional highly specialized skills that are necessary to solve certain problems, and everything else should be of high quality for everyone.
        3. washi
          washi 17 September 2013 14: 12 New
          +2
          Special Forces is not a weapon. This is its application.
          Quote: kirpich
          I apologize, for some reason my answer was cut off.
          (guard, special forces, blue, green, speckled and other berets), but there is ordinary infantry (the so-called cannon fodder). Now imagine that the infantry battalion is armed with sophisticated small arms, and accordingly trained. What will be called such a battalion? That's right, SPETSNAZ battalion. And his tasks will be different than that of the infantry.

          Special forces have been brought up for years, and now the term has been reduced to a minimum. They can’t equip the trench properly.
          1. Hon
            Hon 17 September 2013 14: 23 New
            -2
            Quote: Vasya
            They can’t equip the trench properly.

            Special forces are not equipped with trenches
            1. JonnyT
              JonnyT 17 September 2013 16: 27 New
              0
              sometimes equipped!
              YES, and in the future there will be only highly mobile branches of the armed forces using for a wide range of tasks - unification, the trend of our time!
            2. Massik
              Massik 18 September 2013 15: 02 New
              +1
              Ahah, you are our enlightened one, in the search before stopping for a night at 2 meters deep a position with bags dug, for 2 hours is this not your trenches?
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 17 September 2013 16: 11 New
            +3
            Qualitatively prepare the infantryman in six months. And the equipment of the trench is far from what a soldier should do, especially in modern realities.
            1. Walking
              Walking 17 September 2013 17: 02 New
              +1
              This body kit is needed only by specialists and there is no mobilization reservists.
              1. Rumata
                Rumata 17 September 2013 20: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Hiking
                This body kit is needed only by specialists and there is no mobilization reservists.

                I am a reservist, at the training camp I get a weapon with this


                or this


                And if the optics still need to remember how to use and at what distances how to aim, then even a child will master the calimator. Its main advantage is a higher accuracy of shooting, since you just need to point to the target without worrying with the fly, head position and so on, as well as a higher reaction rate, roughly speaking, if someone jumps around the corner, aiming a shot with a calliamator, the same person will fire two times faster than with a conventional metal sight. I do not see any cons in this device at all ...
                Z.Y
                Everything else that hangs on a piccatini, an amateur and depending on the situation. In urban conditions, a flashlight, and especially the lower handle, is VERY useful, but in an open field they are overweight. But optics, x4-x6, I generally think you need to give half of the drugs, it doesn’t matter in what conditions, the city, mountains, forests, then definitely not when it does not reach melee, especially if you add nighttime to the daytime. When the aiming range of Detachment A at night is 450-500 meters, and Detachment B is firing in the dark, the outcome of the battle is known ...
                1. Rosomaha67
                  Rosomaha67 20 September 2013 12: 29 New
                  -1
                  ...... dear, there is not a single critical comment about night sights, I’ll say more. that at night this is a necessary and very useful thing, the presence of an optical sight on a machine gun (assault rifle) is also justified in some cases, he himself repeatedly used the AKO on the AKN to conduct more accurate fire with single shots in positional combat, but this was more likely an exception than as a rule, besides, I repeat, I fought in the special forces unit and the range of tasks that we solved was much wider than that of the infantry unit .....
        4. Zeev
          Zeev 19 September 2013 15: 42 New
          -3
          And what are the tasks of the special forces battalion? Grab a strong point, stealthily sneaking after a night march to enemy positions? Set up a hidden observation post on enemy territory? Organize an ambush on a specific car in a particular place? Take a terrorist in his house? Well, that means that all Israeli infantry units are special forces. All 5 infantry brigades of conscripts and the corresponding number of reservists.
          1. Rosomaha67
            Rosomaha67 19 September 2013 16: 21 New
            +1
            ...... and we do not measure special forces with battalions, excuse me ......... brigade, detachment, platoon group, these are the usual units for which special forces are used ..... but the task of motorized rifle units RF Armed Forces covert surveillance on enemy territory and ambush actions are not included, these are reconnaissance tasks, or reconnaissance units of the same infantry, assaulting an enemy strongpoint after secretly approaching him at night (as well as during the day) is really an infantry task, and it’s also sharpening all the firearms for this just what the special forces do not understand. It’s definitely not the task of the infantry to take a terrorist in his house, well, unless he was captured during a general assault on the village. The storming of individual buildings in peaceful cities in our country is carried out by special police special forces, or FSB special forces ....... the task of the special forces remained and was reconnaissance, carrying out sabotage operations, collecting information through reconnaissance searches, ambushes, and organizing covert surveillance on enemy territory, physical capture of information sources. These are the main tasks that are similar to the tasks of army intelligence, the division has always been carried out according to whose interests certain units operated, in the depth of penetration into the enemy’s territory, on the scale of sabotage operations. The special forces are always farther, louder and cooler, and his bosses have the GRU General Staff, and not the intelligence chief of a regiment, division, army .........
            ..... and if you have everything completely for the commandos, well, what is better for you, I’m glad for you, as they say, and the flag in your hands, with a blue star .......
            1. Rumata
              Rumata 19 September 2013 18: 44 New
              -1
              Quote: Rosomaha67
              surveillance on enemy territory and ambush actions are not included, these are reconnaissance tasks

              Quote: Rosomaha67
              the task of the special forces as it was and remained reconnaissance, sabotage, collecting information through reconnaissance searches, ambushes, the organization of covert surveillance in enemy territory,

              You already decide ...
              1. Rosomaha67
                Rosomaha67 20 September 2013 10: 52 New
                0
                ..... I understand that constant communication in Hebrew negatively affects the knowledge of the Russian language, well, or the auto-translator did not work, it is also written there:
                "But the task of the motorized rifle subunits of the RF Armed Forces is not a covert observation on enemy territory and ambush actions", in my opinion it is clear what will be defined here.
                .... and this was said in response to Comrade Zeev's remark that in your IDF all the infantrymen perform special forces tasks, and gave an example, but from his example I analyzed which tasks are tasks for the special forces, and which motorized rifle units solve in our army. You see, the problem is Comrade. Zeeva is that he does not understand that our army special forces are not at war on the territory of our country, with their own citizens, accordingly, they do not perform the functions of police special forces and special forces of the FSB, and even more so the motorized rifle troops of the RF Armed Forces do not do this, for this there is an explosive and their spetsnaz, even during the Chechen campaign, were engaged in the "cleansing" of populated areas, and the motorized rifle brigades held the outer perimeter and supported them with heavy weapons if necessary. With the exception of cases of assault on fortified settlements that provide active resistance. Here, as they say, and cards to the infantry in hand - the assault on a fortified defensive point of the enemy, under this the infantry is sharpened ....... so you need to read the comments more carefully and not engage in distorting other people's thoughts !!! fellow
  9. ale-x
    ale-x 17 September 2013 11: 09 New
    0
    Body kits to be! Calimator sights greatly simplify and speed up aiming. Optics, yes, for those who can. But we will have a contract army soon))))) Profi. And even with money)). Without the modernization of small arms, you can get into a situation like in the days of the Crimean company of the 19th century. The guns of the Russian infantrymen did not have sufficient power, in contrast to those that the British and French were armed with. Let the soldier have the opportunity to choose what he needs and what not. Carry him "extra" or not. But I will repeat - there will be a way !!!
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 17 September 2013 11: 31 New
      +6
      Quote: ale-x
      the situation as during the Crimean company of the 19th century. Shotguns of the Russian infantrymen did not have sufficient power, unlike those with which the British and French were armed.


      not quite so, the Russian army had smoothbore guns, and the British used new rifled rifles with bullets like miniers. as a result, the British could conduct targeted fire without entering the zone of destruction of Russian rifles.
    2. washi
      washi 17 September 2013 14: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: ale-x
      Body kits to be! Calimator sights greatly simplify and speed up aiming. Optics, yes, for those who can. But we will have a contract army soon))))) Profi. And even with money)). Without the modernization of small arms, you can get into a situation like in the days of the Crimean company of the 19th century. The guns of the Russian infantrymen did not have sufficient power, in contrast to those that the British and French were armed with. Let the soldier have the opportunity to choose what he needs and what not. Carry him "extra" or not. But I will repeat - there will be a way !!!

      And you better communicate with veterans of local wars. They fired at the offhand sound without training at all, and hit.
      We do not need simplification. We need knowledge of weapons.
      1. ale-x
        ale-x 17 September 2013 15: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: Vasya
        And you better communicate with veterans of local wars. They fired at the offhand sound without training at all, and hit.
        We do not need simplification. We need weapons knowledge

        Yes, I talked with them, every day I talk.
        I’m not saying that why not learn mate. part and the more practice to cancel. This is first and foremost. But I am for all these useful things to be in the army, and not only be available to specialists and scouts, but be available to everyone. Let the soldier decide whether it’s convenient or not to use the scope or just a * cudgel.
        1. Rosomaha67
          Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 15: 14 New
          -2
          ..... yeah, and let everyone choose on the tank to go to him or to walk, and generally follow the order or not, he better know if he is a soldier ........... bullshit
    3. JonnyT
      JonnyT 17 September 2013 17: 05 New
      -2
      there is no doubt that they should be, but why do they need an infantry unit, when the command "sight 400 landmark 10, fire" sounds from the platoon commander ......?
  10. sergant89
    sergant89 17 September 2013 12: 30 New
    14
    And why should our soldier be armed worse than the enemy, he’ll be enough of a fool and make him crazy
  11. albanech
    albanech 17 September 2013 12: 35 New
    -3
    The main ability to fight, and not all kinds of accessories on the machine! It is necessary to teach the art of war, and not hang tsatski on a soldier! Think!
    1. Hon
      Hon 17 September 2013 13: 13 New
      11
      Quote: albanech
      The main ability to fight, and not all kinds of accessories on the machine! It is necessary to teach the art of war, and not hang tsatski on a soldier! Think!

      These are precisely those who know how to fight well, and these tzatskis hang ...
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 39 New
      +3
      Both this and that are important. What is more convenient for you - without a right hand, or without a left foot?
    3. Denis
      Denis 17 September 2013 18: 13 New
      0
      Quote: albanech
      Do not hang tsatski on a soldier!
      Then I immediately remember the gas mask
      1. albanech
        albanech 18 September 2013 09: 58 New
        +5
        No need to look at the USA and make weapons like in science fiction films! Need to make a new professional weapon! To * er me tsatski if you need to teach fighters to work with weapons. In battle, any weapon - a thing is capable of killing, not a body kit or tsatski! Where are the new knives, pistols, machine guns - I do not see them in the sun. All these are prototypes! Officials play, test, sell, and we walked and walk with old machine guns and pistols. Window dressing! Tsatska got stuck and rejoice - we improved the weapon - for * er it - I’ll make such a fighter and don’t go to the grandmother with an old machine gun and a gun!
        PS What about the gas mask - it was not superfluous! Interesting - you know how to hold your breath comrades "fighters" and how much?
  12. vkrav
    vkrav 17 September 2013 13: 27 New
    11
    These are precisely those who know how to fight well, and these tzatskis hang ...

    Exactly that "tsatzki". When it comes to body kits, for some reason I always remember Nomokonov, who worked for a long time from a regular three-line and with an open sight .. All this talk about body kits and shitty domestic weapons is just a gonorrheal cover for the elementary inability to shoot and unwillingness For some reason, now figs you can find a person who is capable of hitting the enemy's head exactly 600m from an open sight - and even in a civilian one it was quite a common thing ... Maybe instead of body kits, introduce new methods of teaching and developing vision? - who is comfortable ... What is better - to buy ever steeper crutches or to train your legs? That is the question ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 52 New
      +7
      Semen Danilovich from childhood lived in the taiga, hunting. Thousands of rounds of ammunition struck him over decades. And he had an optical sight, since 1942, if you are not in the know.

      Collimators, trijicons and other body kits are needed in order to compensate for the shortcomings of the shooter, to facilitate aiming and increase its speed.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 17 September 2013 14: 04 New
      +8
      And knights in the Middle Ages rider to the ass chopped up a sword, maybe we will return? I don’t think that Nomokonov would have fought worse if he had a high-quality modern sniper rifle with good optics.
    3. washi
      washi 17 September 2013 14: 20 New
      +3
      Quote: vkrav
      These are precisely those who know how to fight well, and these tzatskis hang ...

      Exactly that "tsatzki". When it comes to body kits, for some reason I always remember Nomokonov, who worked for a long time from a regular three-line and with an open sight .. All this talk about body kits and shitty domestic weapons is just a gonorrheal cover for the elementary inability to shoot and unwillingness For some reason, now figs you can find a person who is capable of hitting the enemy's head exactly 600m from an open sight - and even in a civilian one it was quite a common thing ... Maybe instead of body kits, introduce new methods of teaching and developing vision? - who is comfortable ... What is better - to buy ever steeper crutches or to train your legs? That is the question ...

      Learn to fight with conventional weapons. Learned - do for convenience
      1. ale-x
        ale-x 17 September 2013 15: 16 New
        -2
        Learn to fight with conventional weapons. Learned - do for convenience [/ quote]
        If you survived, draw conclusions. Conclusions are made long ago.
  13. Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 13: 44 New
    -1
    ...... dear members of the forum, here they often break spears about body kits for AK. What kind of rational grain is there, of course. But this, again, is for specialists, they need the modularity of the machine to perform a wider range of tasks than ordinary infantry units. For them, it is necessary to create these body kits, or better a new machine, in which the modularity and flexibility of the design will be laid, and then it will be a much better way out than "improving" the AK. AK is an assault rifle of an ordinary infantryman, a conscript soldier, which he must master in a short period of this conscript service, and which must be sufficiently reliable with "unskilled" service. But the new machine for specialists can be made more complicated and with a less reliable design, but giving higher results in accuracy and accuracy of fire, it will be used by professionals and cards in their hands.
    .... and if someone wants to prepare an infantry unit of conscripts for the special forces program, at least even in Soviet times, then first try to scatter the training hours of the program, which used to take 2 years to date of military service, and then say that all the infantry must have specialist skills. Then let’s turn the whole army into the airborne forces - they are the coolest and they will have to fight with us. In my delirium!

    ..... and there, above, one comrade stated that he hit 500 meters with the help of a collimator from an AK - I really want him to reveal his secrets of sniper shooting, otherwise I "inept" do not get such results ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 17 September 2013 13: 54 New
      +3
      You say nonsense. The soldier must be a specialist. Dot. Do you think American soldiers hang collimators for fun? No. Because the collimator increases the aiming speed two times.
      1. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 14: 14 New
        +3
        ...... damn well, each sight has its own + and - if you are a practicing shooter then you know it and you must also know perfectly well in which cases the collimator sight is better than the open one, and in which worse, so there’s nothing to argue about , i.e. somewhere the collimator wins, in close fire contact, face-to-face, but it can be aimed faster when it is necessary to shoot first, but at medium and long distances the collimator will lose especially on a moving target, because it is easier to take a lead on an open sight .... ... each appliance has its own dish.
        ... about the specialists - well, maybe in the American army by the order of "General Pupyrchatoy" from today all the soldiers have been transferred to the special forces, I think that this stupid decision will not be followed in the RA, and there will not be enough money either. Indeed, according to the current terminology in the Russian Army, the word "special" means a soldier of a special purpose unit, and not a specialist in the general sense, it is possible that in your army it is different ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 September 2013 16: 13 New
          -1
          Quote: Rosomaha67
          those. somewhere the collimator wins, in close fire contact, face-to-face, but it can be aimed faster when it is necessary to take the shot first, but at medium and long distances the collimator will lose especially on the moving target, because it is easier to take the lead on the open sight .... ... each appliance has its own dish.

          The collimator interferes with the use of weapons at long distances, I do not quite understand something?
        2. builder
          builder 17 September 2013 17: 04 New
          +5
          It’s just the opposite. The panoramic collimator sight is ideal for observing and shooting at fast moving objects. The main advantage of a collimator sight is the free movement of the shooter's eyes, that is, the mark is fixed not on the surface of the lens, but on the object. Also, the use of such a sight practically does not reduce the field of view.
          According to literature data, the use of a collimator sight when firing from automatic small arms increases the effectiveness of firing compared to a mechanical sight by 2-3 times for moving targets and 1,5-2 times for motionless ones.
          1. Rosomaha67
            Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 07: 17 New
            0
            Quote: stroitel

            According to literature data, the use of a collimator sight when firing from automatic small arms increases the effectiveness of firing compared to a mechanical sight by 2-3 times for moving targets and 1,5-2 times for motionless ones.


            ... guys, I understand that you are in the majority "from the Internet", but these "according to the data given in the literature" have already been obtained, please refer to your own experience or to the experience of your fellow colleagues, etc. According to the data presented in the literature, a combat starship has long been built in Russia, only it is kept in the deepest secret, but for some reason you do not believe it ...
            1. builder
              builder 19 September 2013 01: 27 New
              0
              According to the literature data in Russia, a combat starship has long been built, it’s only kept in the deepest secrets, but for some reason you don’t believe this .....
              Well, if you read books about starships ... wink
              To assess the effectiveness of the sight, comrades from the State Institution "Special Technique and Communications" of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia did a great job, studied the experience of using collimator sights in Chechnya (the fourth special purpose regiment ODON in 1995) and wrote an interesting book - Study guide "Combat use of a collimator sight "NIT-A". / Siberian branch of the State Institution "Special Technics and Communications" of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia. / I don't want to insert plates from there (they take up a lot of space),
              but the general conclusion they made was this:
              1. the use of the “Thread-A” sight increases the likelihood of hitting a single target in comparison with a mechanical sight by 2,26 times and reduces the time of hitting a target by 2,68
              2. When firing from an AK-74M with the “Thread-A” sight from a standing position, accuracy of fire at a range of 100 meters is improved by 4,13 times compared with a mechanical sight.
              Although the "Thread-A" is quite antediluvian sight.
              1. Rosomaha67
                Rosomaha67 19 September 2013 16: 33 New
                0
                .... do you really imagine the situation in Chechnya in 1995, what the hell is research work, there were continuous clashes, the situation often swayed from one side to another, really began to surpass the Czechs only by the end of 1995, and then not everywhere, what the hell are research commissions, even if they came, then they did not leave the headquarters of the group in Khankala, and they wrote a book already in Moscow after shooting at the ODONA training ground in Balashikha - for sure ... more than once I witnessed all sorts of scientific activists and journalists, tested weapons and filmed reports "on the front line" in a quarry near Khankala, who knows for sure there was a common shooting range, and young people were constantly dragged there to learn how to shoot from everything ...
                1. builder
                  builder 19 September 2013 17: 55 New
                  0
                  The book is not in Moscow (Siberian branch). The main work in the shooting range at the training ground. "... we studied the experience of using collimator sights in Chechnya ..." - conducted a survey of the fourth special-purpose regiment ODON, which used these sights after the hostilities.
                  Namely: [quote] "... The first industrial batch of Nit-A sights, released in 1993, was in operation in special police units, in rapid response units, in military units of internal troops, educational institutions and in other structural units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs deployed in many districts and various climatic zones of Russia. Some of the sights were used for a long time in units that took part in the resolution of armed conflicts. This made it possible to gain experience in the combat use of the sight ... "[Quote]
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 17 September 2013 14: 36 New
      +5
      Quote: Rosomaha67
      .... and if someone wants to prepare an infantry unit of conscripts for the special forces program, at least even in Soviet times, then first try to scatter the training hours of the program, which used to take 2 years to date of military service, and then say that all the infantry must have specialist skills. Then let’s turn the whole army into the airborne forces - they are the coolest and they will have to fight with us. In my delirium!

      What do conscripts serve for 7 years in the Airborne Forces? The conversation is not about making a special forces soldier from a motorized rifle, the conversation that a motorized rifle also needs high-quality weapons, high-quality training and high-quality equipment.
      1. ale-x
        ale-x 17 September 2013 15: 19 New
        +3
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Quote: Rosomaha67
        .... and if someone wants to prepare an infantry unit of conscripts for the special forces program, at least even in Soviet times, then first try to scatter the training hours of the program, which used to take 2 years to date of military service, and then say that all the infantry must have specialist skills. Then let’s turn the whole army into the airborne forces - they are the coolest and they will have to fight with us. In my delirium!

        What do conscripts serve for 7 years in the Airborne Forces? The conversation is not about making a special forces soldier from a motorized rifle, the conversation that a motorized rifle also needs high-quality weapons, high-quality training and high-quality equipment.


        I agree completely. What a desire to leave the marines in the last century? Everyone who is going to "go to war" should have an "equipment", and they need to learn how to use it.
  14. Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 15: 06 New
    +3
    Quote: Vladimirets

    What do conscripts serve for 7 years in the Airborne Forces? The conversation is not about making a special forces soldier from a motorized rifle, the conversation that a motorized rifle also needs high-quality weapons, high-quality training and high-quality equipment.


    ..... so I'm not against high-quality weapons, but that now the quality of the assault rifle depends on the presence of a collimator sight, but I did not know, sorry. The word quality training is generally a vague term because it is voluminous and incomprehensible like a fog. Training should always be of high quality, by definition, or is it not training, but its imitation. But what to teach is another question, but I will repeat once again that teaching the infantry to carry out the tasks of the special forces is money down the drain, otherwise why then the infantry, let's do everything with specialists, but it was on this site that the use of special forces was repeatedly discussed and the idea was expressed more than once that it is ineffective to use specialists to carry out the tasks of infantry units. I also support high-quality equipment with both hands, but again you need to distinguish between special forces equipment and an ordinary motorized rifleman, of course everyone wants to hang on themselves all sorts of pockets and b / p so that they look like Schwartz in "Commando", but people who could gather there is almost no raid knapsack for 4-5 daily output, so that there is enough b / p, and there is enough food and not to forget about water, and so that it will sit comfortably "on the hump", and in my time special forces began to train with this ..... the concept of high-quality equipment, unfortunately, for some reason, everyone builds on films, well, or according to the guys from the police special forces, who move away from their special vehicles by a maximum of 1 km during operations, and the infantryman needs completely different equipment ... not high-quality and corresponding to its tasks
  15. vkrav
    vkrav 17 September 2013 15: 35 New
    0
    Quote: Vladimirets
    if he had a high-quality modern sniper rifle with good optics.

    But Nomokonov, and with an open sights from a three-ruler into a matchbox, got to 300m ... He had enough ...
    Damn, and there is no need to find fault with the weapon! We need to solve problems with the means that are. And howls like "But if there was Arctic Warfare (ACOG, Trijikon, ballistic computer, etc.), then we would be awesome!" there is no excuse for inability and mediocrity. Either you know how to shoot, or no collimator with other body kit will help.
    1. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 17 September 2013 15: 53 New
      +1
      ...... I completely agree with the commentator, as they say "eggs interfere with a bad dancer", if you don't know how to shoot, then the body kits won't help. For some reason, most of us here think that with the help of body kits they will defeat their inability, but no body kit is just for the one who knows how, it improves his professional qualities, but the one who does not know how will not teach ...
  16. kirpich
    kirpich 17 September 2013 15: 41 New
    -1
    Quote: Pimply
    Wrong. Conventional infantry is armed with normal weapons with collimators, trigicons, etc. This is no longer bells and whistles, this is reality.


    Reality, excuse me, where? If in the armies that fight in deserts and mountains, then yes, but if the war (God forbid) will be in our non-chernozem-chernozem regions, then all these collimators, with the tricycons, will be thrown out by the soldiers after the first battle.
    1. Zeev
      Zeev 17 September 2013 16: 08 New
      +1
      With what fright will a soldier throw a device that allows him to aim more accurately and shoot faster than the enemy? And why is the non-chernozem-chernozem medium so remarkable in comparison with others?
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 17 September 2013 16: 28 New
        +1
        Come to us in the spring or in the fall, you will understand.
        1. Zeev
          Zeev 17 September 2013 17: 16 New
          +2
          Quote: kirpich
          Come to us in the spring or in the fall, you will understand.

          So you come to us in the Golan or in the Jordan Valley in a month. Or do you really think that Russian dirt is something special?
          A collimator (as well as other body kit) is needed for both special equipment and a simple infantryman. For weight is good and necessary.
          1. kirpich
            kirpich 17 September 2013 17: 19 New
            +1
            I was, I saw. It can be expressed in one phrase - the day is wet, the hour is drying.
            1. Zeev
              Zeev 17 September 2013 17: 37 New
              -1
              Quote: kirpich
              I was, I saw. It can be expressed in one phrase - the day is wet, the hour is drying.

              The stones can be dried in an hour, coarse sand too, and the Golan or Galilean "hamra" (alumina) horseradish will dry out in a week of sunny weather. And by stickiness, I suppose, it will give odds to any dirt in the middle lane (this is me, as a person who has lived in Belarus for 19 years, I say)
          2. nikolaxp
            nikolaxp 17 September 2013 22: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Zeev
            So you come to us in the Golan or in the Jordan Valley in a month. Or do you really think that Russian dirt is something special?


            Of course, the special thing is that your photo is just the perfect road for the tank)) Look at ours after a three-hour rain:
            1. nikolaxp
              nikolaxp 17 September 2013 22: 11 New
              +1
              And this despite the fact that the terrain is not swampy, otherwise it would have completely hidden, as if there had been no tank. From the same column, but a few meters further:
              1. Rumata
                Rumata 17 September 2013 23: 57 New
                -5
                Quote: nikolaxp
                And this despite the fact that the terrain is not swampy, otherwise it would have completely hidden, as if there had been no tank. From the same column, but a few meters further:

                So it’s possible to drop into the river and call it mud ... I can put such photos on a wagon and a small cart ...


                1. nikolaxp
                  nikolaxp 18 September 2013 08: 59 New
                  +3
                  The fact of the matter is that this is not a river, but ordinary everyday mud, which we have all year round and only freezes in winter. I do not dispute that you also have dirt, it’s just for you this is more likely an exception, but for us everyday life and more likely an exception will be a dry and even road. At the expense of the pictures, your car with our train is no comparison, sorry.
                  1. Rumata
                    Rumata 18 September 2013 15: 10 New
                    -1
                    Quote: nikolaxp
                    I do not dispute that you also have dirt, just for you it is rather an exception

                    Since the Israeli desert is most often shown on TV, many people mistakenly think that we have no rains and mercavas here, for example, it is not designed to move through the mud. In fact, only a couple of places in Russia are approaching in terms of rainfall to the Golan Heights, in the winter mud on the neck and it was under these conditions that M א Rkava was created, the Upper Galilee and the Golan, the main potential theater of operations for tanks for 40 years ....
              2. svp67
                svp67 18 September 2013 10: 33 New
                0
                Quote: nikolaxp
                that the terrain is not marshy
                Yes, it’s just not there, she’s a SWAMP, look:
                - the trees along the route are neither tall nor big, they just don’t grow there or rather they don’t grow,
                - the water "stands" in the pits, which means that the groundwater level is very high
                Here is a photo from the "Elansky training center" located in the Sverdlovsk region


                And this is the Urals ... And there too - swamps, swamps, swamps .... Well, they don’t give good land for landfills ...
            2. DJEIN8
              DJEIN8 18 September 2013 00: 18 New
              +1
              What kind of freaks should be commanders and a stupid driver-driver, what kind of bestial attitude to technology, which would knowingly know how this will end
              "experiment", go to such a mockery of the technique .........
              Even during the war, the normal commander and crew would either have traveled around this place or, if it was impossible to do so, would have chopped up trees, as did REASONABLE PEOPLE then ....
              And these smiling creatures show the whole world and their Minister of Defense for WHOM ARMES and other equipment are being developed and what can be expected from such
              "defenders" of the Motherland ......
              1. nikolaxp
                nikolaxp 18 September 2013 10: 26 New
                +2
                You’re directly naive from the naive, at least once you went off-road, at least by car. Always by the first impression, it is impossible to determine how deep the puddle and softened soil are.
                Tanks are primarily a combat vehicle, all-terrain vehicles designed for the most difficult operating conditions, in your opinion, you only need to drive them on asphalt, but keep them in hangars, do they scratch them?
                In Russia, the nature is such and the difficult climatic conditions, there’s no way to leave them, let the fighters train better now, digging out and understanding which dirt you can leave and which not, and the commanders from such idiotic cases than during the war, when every second counts.
                Z.Y. Only three tanks got stuck, one was the most, they waited a couple of hours and the ARVM pulled everyone out. What are you so panicking, the usual everyday situation, which from year to year is not uncommon in our vast expanses.
              2. svp67
                svp67 18 September 2013 12: 04 New
                0
                Quote: DJEIN8
                What kind of freaks should be commanders and a stupid driver-driver, what kind of bestial attitude to technology, which would knowingly know how this will end
                "experiment", go to such a mockery of the technique .........
                And if there are NO OTHER WAYS, but for the PENALTY - the PENALTY, you don’t want it, but you will go this way - the question is different, but what is the HEAD OF THE ENGINEERING SERVICE doing there, sort of like maintaining the column roads = its direct RESPONSIBILITY ... The truth is that manpower and resources are simply not enough ...
      2. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 07: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: Zeev
        And why is the non-chernozem-chernozem medium so remarkable in comparison with others?

        ... with soils, soils, the amount of water per surface unit and as a result, the amount of dirt that sticks to the weapon when moving on foot. So here we have the speed of contamination of attachments is quite relevant, especially if you have to move not on comfortable BM, but on foot or crawl under enemy fire.
        1. Zeev
          Zeev 19 September 2013 15: 29 New
          -2
          Here are some scary secrets. We have dirt, there is a lot of it and it is very sticky (much more sticky than in the same middle lane). ... This time. In the Israeli army, hostilities are conducted not from "comfortable BM", but on foot and crawling. And what is 20-30-40-60 (and in some places 90-120) kilometers of foot march with full unloading, any soldier of the Israeli infantry knows quite well how and what it is to crawl through the mud. Nevertheless, attachments are used with might and main, especially since they are much less contaminated than the aforementioned flash suppressor, machine-gun belt, or under-barrel grenade launcher.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 September 2013 16: 14 New
      -1
      Quote: kirpich

      Reality, excuse me, where? If in the armies that fight in deserts and mountains, then yes, but if the war (God forbid) will be in our non-chernozem-chernozem regions, then all these collimators, with the tricycons, will be thrown out by the soldiers after the first battle.

      That is why the entire Russian special runs with collimators. And mountains with deserts - do you think the climate is dry and sand everywhere?
      1. kirpich
        kirpich 17 September 2013 16: 17 New
        +1
        So we came to the understanding that body kits on weapons are needed by special equipment, but not by any means an ordinary infantryman.
      2. Russ69
        Russ69 17 September 2013 16: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        That is why the entire Russian special runs with collimators. And mountains with deserts - do you think the climate is dry and sand everywhere?

        Specura runs with what anyone likes at the moment ....
      3. Massik
        Massik 18 September 2013 15: 39 New
        +4
        You were there respected in the special forces of the Russian Federation ??? Or are you all judging by epic photos ??? As of January 2013, our special-purpose group accounted for: 14 pcs. 1PN93, 1 pc. PKN-03, 7 pcs. ATG - that's all for 53 machines. Learning to shoot, I myself also wanted to buy a collimator sight for the first year, then I saw how senior comrades in a battle with old machine guns work without miracles, abandoned such an idea, it is necessary to put the ability to use personal skills and not the dependence on equipment as the main thing. A soldier must learn to shoot perfectly from an open sight, and then, if he wishes, use additional equipment.
  17. carbofo
    carbofo 17 September 2013 15: 58 New
    -1
    It seems to me that we need to stop at 2 options
    1- AKARS type - AK Adaptive Rail System but not as a separate one, namely integrated into a reinforced cover, somewhere it already was, it seems on the AK-12, I think in this option I add the possibility of mounting a second sight for a close distance like AKRR2
    2- by the type of KOP Planck - Kalashnikov Optics Platform, suitable for use both without an aim and with an aim, I think the bulk of the soldiers will do it.
    For specialists, anyway, an individual theme will remain.

    I am confused by the numbers voiced for modernization in the article
    The cost of modernization directly depended on the chosen option and was supposed to be from 2 to 10 thousand rubles per machine.

    I’m interested in the hour of the locksmith’s work and $ 56 per bar, suddenly turned into 10k ??.
    Somehow, I don’t see any obstacles to replacing the covers with reinforced ones, for example, replacing the sight with a reticle with reinforcing fasteners for the cover.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 18 September 2013 00: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: carbofo
      The cost of modernization directly depended on the chosen option and was supposed to be from 2 to 10 thousand rubles per machine.

      I was always killed by such opinions ... Body kit from the same CAA Tactical AKPRO (Pro Kit For The AK47).
      (1) XRS47-SET 5 Picatinny Hand Guard Rail System. Aluminum made
      (2) UFH3P 5 Positions Quick Release Light / laser Mount - 24.4-27mm. Polymer made
      (3) TC3 Tactical Long LED Vortex Light. Aluminum made
      (4) BPP GRIP Pivot Pod Grip. Polymer + Aluminum Made
      (5) UPG47 6 Piece Interchangeable Pistol Grip. Polymer made
      (6) MC47N magazine coupler
      (7) AKTS 6 Position Buffer Tube Stock Conversion. Aluminum made
      (8) AKTM 6 Position Buffer Tube Stock Conversion. Aluminum made
      (9) CBS Collapsible commercial spec buttstock. Polymer made
      (10) ACP Adjustable Cheek Rest. Polymer made

      For details - click on the relevant line
      Price: € 679.50
      add optics, the price for another 2 bucks will rise ...
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 19 September 2013 15: 16 New
        0
        Quote: PSih2097
        I have always been killed by such opinions.

        Kill as much as you want, I didn’t mean directly optics, namely modernization under the bar.
  18. jasper
    jasper 17 September 2013 16: 20 New
    +5
    add a bar to the receiver cover? stupidity, it vibrates, only lateral
    ps the way to improve the Kalash is to shake the layout, getting rid of the notorious cover, body kit is necessary, not the 40s
  19. saygon66
    saygon66 17 September 2013 16: 23 New
    +8
    - Some kind of dispute is incomprehensible ... It is strange to demand from the AK some exceptional accuracy and convenience ... the machine was originally intended to equip the MASS of military personnel. So as not to break, then drive! An adjustable butt is a necessary thing, a convenient pistol grip too, but a grip under a fore-end is an amateur, such Romanians and Egyptians did. But the rest ... knowing the phenomenal abilities of military servicemen in terms of loss of state property ... Well, if you really want to, the most trained shooters in a company-platoon can be handed a machine gun (that went through the Quality Control Department at the factory with the least deviations from those technical requirements ) with a minimum set of devices. The rest is for specialists. By the way, buying all sorts of gadgets is a good thing. Bought for their own-account not just pro .... b - take away does not always work out!
    1. Walking
      Walking 17 September 2013 17: 41 New
      0
      Totally agree
  20. builder
    builder 17 September 2013 16: 41 New
    0
    In 2013, Russia will begin production of MEPRO-21 collimator sights for small arms under the license of the Israeli company MEPROLIGHT. As part of the promotion, MEPROLIGHT provided several collimator sights to special forces for free. Officers noted the increased resistance of MEPRO-21 to mechanical damage.
    Now in service is the 1P-63 collimator sight of the Novosibirsk Instrument-Making Plant. It is included in the standard kit AK-74M, silent systems "Val", "Vintorez", sniper rifles. / Based on materials izvestia.ru/
  21. saygon66
    saygon66 17 September 2013 17: 23 New
    0
    - One of the devices offered by commercial manufacturers: Not milled aluminum but plastic - i.e. cheaper. That's just do not mount the GPU ... probably ...
  22. MAG
    MAG 17 September 2013 17: 24 New
    +2
    KARDEN in LJ has a lot about different body kit for different weapons. ZENITOVSK body kit is not bad, you can buy on the HANSA who is looking for it will find. My opinion is the minimum that should be out of body kit- an adjustable butt and a bar under the scope.
  23. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 17 September 2013 19: 41 New
    +2
    Quote: saygon66
    - Some kind of dispute is incomprehensible ... It is strange to demand from the AK some exceptional accuracy and convenience ... the machine was originally intended to equip the MASS of military personnel.

    In fact, the masses, and all this mass must accurately shoot to win and not ballast. In the army on an urgent, we had an AK-74. With an open sight and a hundred meters, I hit with a coefficient of 0,9 (a digital target on the chest and ten credits single). In our platoon, the guy also shot well, the rest from 0,3 to 0,8. Even then I thought some sort of sights. His eyes were tired of long sighting. In my opinion, a panoramic collimator sight is the most suitable thing, it has already been noticed here, it limits the angle of view a little. And to monitor their weapons, even according to the charter should. And the machine itself is a wonderful thing, it required some thoroughness, however, when shooting.
  24. repytw
    repytw 17 September 2013 19: 48 New
    +2
    Today, the AK-74M is massively joining the army, it has a tide on the left side, on which you can mount optical, night, caliber sights, and all sorts of trims are extra money that can again be stolen, give this money to each commander of the motorized rifle division, a platoon in the sight, it’s possible also at the PKK, right now, not without a chimney, well done here, well done, the next year, one more to the department until you provide it, and then you can even think where else to spend the money. I'm talking about the mass army, the specialists have everything.
  25. Castor oil
    Castor oil 17 September 2013 20: 33 New
    0
    Something in the article does not mention the most popular and IMHO best rail-body kits - the so-called "Texas" TVS cover, and the Ultimak-coated kit (gas pipe and forend).
  26. Rex
    Rex 17 September 2013 22: 55 New
    +1
    Behind the general philosophy, the flood did not mention the economic aspect - a good kalimator costs $ 500 at retail (like the whole AK-74M). And it is unlikely for mass purchase of the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc. the price will be below 250-300 bucks. We need to put them in at least 1 million units - in the region of 0,5% of the total annual defense budget. 10-15 years will be purchased ...
  27. max702
    max702 18 September 2013 00: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: Vasya
    The conscript must be able to shoot from everything and hit.

    you're talking about some special forces, but not about conscripts smile where did you see the conscript who at least somehow knows how to shoot ..
    1. alexbil2
      alexbil2 April 2 2015 13: 13 New
      0
      Apparently you didn’t serve as a comrade, since you think that conscripts cannot shoot!
  28. Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 07: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply

    The collimator interferes with the use of weapons at long distances, I do not quite understand something?


    .... Yes, it doesn’t interfere, I didn’t say such a thing, but if the target is moving then it goes beyond the scope, moreover, it (the target) can overlap with it, when using magnifying nozzles the angle of view narrows even more, so at medium and long distances (for assault rifles and assault rifles) with an open sight are easier to take the lead, you have the target always above the rear target and take the lead easier to cling to this same frame, but at short distances I do not argue because of the notorious point (it’s faster to catch than to combine front sight and rear sight) really collimator faster.
  29. Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 07: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply


    That is why the entire Russian special runs with collimators. And mountains with deserts - do you think the climate is dry and sand everywhere?


    Yes, the Russian special forces do not run with collimators, they are Russian police "special forces", all sorts of sobri, Omsna, etc. special forces of the FSKN, FSB, etc.
    .... give an example of the use of collimators by army special forces (I don’t think the FSB special forces are army, because if you now ask any fighter, officer, among other things, to outline the position of the motorized rifle squad in defense, with the distribution of the fire sectors and the boundaries of opening and concentration, he will think thoughtfully, and then authoritatively declares that this is not his task) ......
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 18 September 2013 09: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Rosomaha67
      Quote: Pimply


      That is why the entire Russian special runs with collimators. And mountains with deserts - do you think the climate is dry and sand everywhere?


      Yes, the Russian special forces do not run with collimators, they are Russian police "special forces", all sorts of sobri, Omsna, etc. special forces of the FSKN, FSB, etc.
      .... give an example of the use of collimators by army special forces (I don’t think the FSB special forces are army, because if you now ask any fighter, officer, among other things, to outline the position of the motorized rifle squad in defense, with the distribution of the fire sectors and the boundaries of opening and concentration, he will think thoughtfully, and then authoritatively declares that this is not his task) ......


      In vain are you so, do you think the special forces are some mythical creatures that grow on trees in the courtyards of departments and agencies? Among the officers of such units there are many WOKERS, and the rank and file is also not by announcement, but with experience.
      "Spetsnaz is not a bunch of n * daras."
      1. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 10: 01 New
        +2
        ..... I will not quote you because such insults against the specialists of power ministries were not even expressed in thoughts, this is completely your nonsense !!!
        ... in no case do not belittle their professionalism and skills, but only in the circle of tasks they solve.
        .... yes, among them there are enough military men with experience, but due to the specifics of the tasks, they do not work out the tasks of combined arms combat of its components, respectively, such training is not conducted. But in the army special forces these are elementary truths that are studied at the very beginning, but then they are constantly fixed during the exercises.
        ... here the debate is about the widespread use of body kits in the army, i.e. in motorized rifle units (since infantry form the basis of our troops). Accordingly, people refer to the experience of using these body kits in special forces, but I pointed out that wide experience in using body kits is available only in special forces of law enforcement agencies, but not in special forces of the Republic of Armenia, and I have repeatedly pointed out that experience in using special body kits is not an indicator what is needed for everyone. The presence of body kits for improving tactical characteristics to perform a particular task for special forces, I have no doubt, it raises doubts about the need to arm the entire army ......
        ... and henceforth I ask you not to speak so much about specialists. all the more not to ascribe to me such thoughts ....
      2. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 10: 05 New
        0
        .... in the special forces of the FSB of the Russian Federation, the entire "ordinary" composition has officer ranks .... its presence or the possibility of obtaining it (higher education) is one of the requirements for admission to these units ....
  30. Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 18 September 2013 08: 02 New
    0
    [quote = PSih2097]
    if you look at the picture above, you will see the collimator Aimpoint Comp M4 2MOA / QRP2
    and a 3XMAG enlarging nozzle, so it's 500 meters, you still remember about ACOG ... [\ quote]
    ..... we are here talking about the collimator and not about the "undersniper" sights, then I'd better hang up the optics, by the way, I fought with the PSO, I had AKN, so it really helped a lot in the mountains ... ..
    ... besides, in that opus, tovarisch talked about some kind of collimator for RPGs, and not about these high-quality, but expensive Amer’s little things
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. vkrav
    vkrav 18 September 2013 15: 31 New
    0
    As always, nothing is born in the dispute ... But I would like to ask two questions:
    1. What was the kit on the arms of the specialists who stormed Amin’s palace?
    2. Are there currently special forces capable of such operations?
    And to consider the issue of usefulness-necessity-pontovogo kit based on the answers to these questions. At the same time, I do not deny the right of truly experts to individually adjust and modify weapons.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 18 September 2013 17: 46 New
      0
      I won’t say anything about the body kit, but there are such special forces. There are simply no operations of this kind.
  33. Sunscorpion
    Sunscorpion 18 September 2013 19: 10 New
    0
    What a beautiful weapon. Do not get tired of admiring. No wonder it was said: ... beautiful is when there is nothing superfluous ...
  34. Rex
    Rex 19 September 2013 10: 18 New
    +4
    "According to the data presented in the literature, a combat starship has long been built in Russia, only it is kept in the deepest secret, but for some reason you do not believe it ..... [/ quote]"

    The materials on this site are 99% superficially populist, more suitable for the "Pioneer" magazine of the Soviet era. This is just a habit.
    And chatter on the forum, respectively, about nothing.
    In general, everything is fine ...

    "please refer to ...... well, or to the experience of your friends, colleagues, etc."

    I had a friend named Vova, born in 1982 Invoked from Tula. He served in the Airborne Forces for 3 years (2 of them under the contract) 2000-2003. I don’t remember the part number, some 50, or a regiment or a brigade. Commited after the second shell shock.
    So, he once accidentally told how, before his eyes, the Ka-50 was firing a cannon with a rotating block of barrels.
    Age made me incredulous, but there are uncommon things and situations in life - I conducted "interrogation with addiction."
    After about 10 minutes of interviews with a lot of clarification, it turned out that he took the launches of the 37-mm NAR for such shooting. with which I agreed in the end.
    I still confuse the names of the PKK and PKM ...
  35. D_L
    D_L 21 September 2013 00: 47 New
    0
    The simpler the more reliable!
  36. alexbil2
    alexbil2 April 2 2015 13: 11 New
    0
    It seems that former or current "specialists" have gathered here and are discussing! And most of all, many, even in the army, did not serve urgently and only know the AK from games.