Military Review

PAK FA first showed up close!

215
It is finished!
A group of journalists was finally shown the latest fighter from a distance available in order to see the fifth generation closer. The reason for this was the signing of an agreement of intent between the RAS and the KLA on the development of new technologies and materials for aviation.


1. On the territory of LIC "Sukhoi" everything is at home. Apples can be torn without departing from production.



A promising front-line aviation complex (PAK FA) is a fifth-generation Russian multi-purpose fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau (United Aircraft Building Corporation), where it also has the official name T-50.

2. I will not tell much, it is interesting to you to look at pictures? The theme with the greens I have brazenly skomunizdil Seryoga. And I do not mind, though I am kind, but fair. By the way, his photos after his became noticeably better.



3. In order to ensure low visibility of the aircraft, we had to carry out a series of basic research in various fields and combine the results into one technology.



4. The signed agreement significantly expands the range of joint work of UAC and the Russian Academy of Sciences. Previously, the corporation cooperated with only one institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences; now, four more divisions of the Academy of Sciences will join the collaboration with the aircraft manufacturer.



5. Of course, they didn’t give a close match. But thanks for that!



6. And near it is not so flat at all!



7. Top-secret air intakes are carefully covered with covers from prying eyes and camera lenses ...



8. There are really few journalists. I only managed to remember Russia in a fuss 24 and RT, look for reports from them.



9. It was necessary to take shotguns lens on 800 mm, I'm afraid if I would have gotten her right away I would be shot.



10. But I wonder what method put rivets? What do you think?



11. Secret weapon PAK FA. Not really. This is a sensor measuring the speed of the receiver air pressure.



12. Rear landing gear. And yet, what is hiding behind covers ???



13. Front.



14. At the end of the press conference on the background of the aircraft, the hangar was closed and the first board of the PAK FA, he also hid the T-50 before ... but honestly, I don’t know when. Maybe tomorrow will be a demonstration flight? In fact, all copies are technically sound and any of the sides can fly for viewers on MAKS.



That is such a beauty!
Author:
Originator:
http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/
215 comments
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  1. sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 08: 09
    29
    But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

    As usual .. if you did not touch them with your hands and did not hold the KM-3 in your hands .. For you this is just a miracle. And there are those that you just need to insert into the hole and heat .. Itself will take the desired shape.
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 31 August 2013 09: 19
      -88 qualifying.
      Quote: Sasha
      you just need to insert it into the hole and heat up .. It will take the desired shape.

      Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.
      1. serge-68-68
        serge-68-68 31 August 2013 10: 03
        -63 qualifying.
        Without rivets, so far only the Americans manage on their F-22s.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 31 August 2013 10: 47
          61
          Quote: serge-68-68
          Without rivets, so far only the Americans manage on their F-22s.

          No, they aren’t doing it yet, F-35, the picture is clickable
          1. postman
            postman 31 August 2013 18: 20
            +8
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            No, they’re not doing it yet,

            get by using screws

            joke( what )

            And the photo that you have is almost the first test prototype.
            Although the F-35 (oddly enough) is really about 30 rivets
            Lockheed Martin uses robotic drilling systems to manufacture the central fuselage with the involvement of participating companies Kuka Systems, Comau Aerospace, Dassault Systems and Fanuc Robotics.
        2. 0255
          0255 31 August 2013 13: 14
          41
          10. But I wonder what method put rivets? What do you think?

          Author Marina Lystseva, photographer

          Posted by girl, not versed in aircraft, just admiring the new fighter. Do not run into a person)))
          1. Andrey Skokovsky
            Andrey Skokovsky 1 September 2013 15: 28
            +5
            Quote: 0255
            10. But I wonder what method put rivets? What do you think?

            Author Marina Lystseva, photographer

            Posted by girl, not versed in aircraft, just admiring the new fighter. Do not run into a person)))

            it’s not a matter of the gender of the author, but of some kind of strange love of the author to look for bulls and want to dig deeper into something, an unpleasant aftertaste from comments
            let the author conduct personal photo sessions better,
            but does not express his ego against the background of prototypes of a fighter which, still not completely born, has already become the pride of the whole people of Russia
            they were let close to the plane .... frankly speaking, they don’t have anything to do there, let them draw drawings by hand, show them to anyone, and then take pictures, otherwise you didn’t take all the sadness!
            So it is for the security of the country, it will be better for us
          2. aviator_IAS
            aviator_IAS 3 September 2013 22: 35
            +1
            Top-secret air intakes are carefully covered with covers from prying eyes and camera lenses ...


            But still, what is hiding behind covers ???


            Purely female curiosity. smile
        3. postman
          postman 31 August 2013 18: 25
          +7
          Quote: serge-68-68
          Without rivets, so far only the Americans manage on their F-22s.

          no . don't do it.
          There are no data on F-22, but on F-35 about 30 of them



        4. gregor6549
          gregor6549 1 September 2013 12: 45
          +8
          Even rivets were dispensed with in the last century, and not at all Americans. For example, when assembling MIG25, welding was used. It was also used during operation, when fatigue cracks in the aircraft structure were simply welded. Cheap and cheerful.
          1. postman
            postman 1 September 2013 15: 23
            +2
            Quote: gregor6549
            For example, when assembling the MIG25, welding was used.

            Are you sure?
            Fuselage and wing?
            there are rivets.
            Welding on cyclic variable loads .... does not pull
            1. gregor6549
              gregor6549 1 September 2013 16: 53
              +3
              Read and check out http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/mikoyan/mig/25/sokol/foxbat.htm
              1. postman
                postman 2 September 2013 02: 45
                +3
                Quote: gregor6549
                Read and check


                There about "All-welded tank compartments"

                it's written

                Distribution of join methods:
                - spot and roller welding - 50% (more than 1400000 weld points);
                - various methods of argon-arc welding - 1,5%;
                - arc fusion welding and welding in an inert gas medium - 1,5%;

                - connection with bolts and rivets - 23,5%.
            2. aviator65
              aviator65 5 September 2013 15: 16
              0
              Learn the materiel. The MiG-25 was the first production aircraft to which welding was widely used. All sections of the fuselage and wing were all-welded, since its main material is stainless steel. Rivets were also used, but where the use of welding was not necessary.
              In general, the welding of materials such as aluminum, magnesium and titanium alloys is quite expensive and not always justified technologically.
            3. gridasov
              gridasov 8 September 2013 20: 01
              0
              On different parts of the aircraft, different flow rates, and this is the difference el. magnetic voltage. Therefore, rivets are not areas of variable load, but of alternating voltage. This is especially important at speeds beyond max. or in increased air density. Moreover, the corner sections are areas of increased stress concentration, and these are corresponding disadvantages.
          2. Black Colonel
            Black Colonel 2 September 2013 15: 30
            +2
            Fatigue cracks were also forged.
        5. bif
          bif 1 September 2013 21: 55
          +2
          All airplanes with rivets, even f-22, are simply usually in public airplanes covered with special coating ... and when it is washed away - EVERYTHING like everyone else! Here are more photos of the MUCH-DRIVING f-22 ... with rivets))) http://suavia.info/page/49/
          1. Kir
            Kir 2 September 2013 01: 41
            +1
            Bit In the top picture, not the rivets but the screws, look at the photo with the rotor.
        6. ksan
          ksan 1 September 2013 22: 56
          +4
          serge-68-68 RU Yesterday, 10:03 ↑

          Without rivets, so far only the Americans manage on their F-22s.
          What's this? Ignorance of the topic fool or "hitting" angry
      2. Coward
        Coward 31 August 2013 10: 10
        69
        Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.
        And the designer and not vkurse that pro-ancient technologies are used.
        But they are more tasteful that spot welding does not provide the necessary strength, and that duralumin does not weld.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 31 August 2013 11: 24
          46
          Quote: Coward
          that duralumin does not weld.

          In an argon environment, it "cooks" for - once! But RIVET is exactly the case when a certain "flexibility" is achieved under dynamic load with sufficient strength ...

          Technology has been refined for centuries.
          1. Coward
            Coward 31 August 2013 13: 24
            +1
            In an argon environment, it "cooks" for - once!
            Were you confused with AMg? Dural crackles along the seam.
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 31 August 2013 14: 06
              12
              Quote: Coward
              Were you confused with AMg? Dural crackles along the seam.

              No, I didn’t confuse it, because there are actually a lot of duralumin ...
              Let's say alloys D1 and D16, which are really accepted in our country as duralumin - not at all AD-31, which is also "duralumin" request
              Nobody claimed that the duralumin is brewed without loss of strength (near-heat zone 10-15mm), depending on what needs the product will be used for.
              Under "static", without shaking, vibrations and "bends", the product will serve the whole period ...

              P / S:Maybe in your FIRST comment you meant that such specific material is NOT cooked in the Aircraft Industry?
              1. El13
                El13 31 August 2013 15: 08
                26
                If a crack develops in a sheet, then it passes through welding to the next sheet at a time, but the riveted joint for it ends - it has reached the edge and that’s it ...
              2. Coward
                Coward 31 August 2013 15: 47
                +6
                To be honest, I was sure that the whole duralumin was not cooked. But in the first comment, naturally wink , I spoke about the aircraft industry.
                I read about AD-31, for development. hi
              3. VAF
                VAF 31 August 2013 16: 01
                18
                Quote: Corsair
                : Maybe in your FIRST comment you meant that such specific material is NOT cooked in the Aircraft Industry?


                So here, it seems, we are discussing the topic of the aircraft industry, or am I not understanding something? lol

                Dear TRUS, absolutely RIGHT (although in some cases various types of welding are used, but not in the elements of the power set).

                And here today I read a comment "from one of the" LEADERS "(how he positions himself as" aviaspelovvvvv " wassat "

                Here ... read-"The main reason for the postponement of production is in the technological difference between the glider edition 9-15 from all 29s with" gills ", which were more than 65% riveted and the 35th was almost completely (for metal) welded"

                Here's how to ....... call it ???? But the worst thing is that he has 12 + belay Is that .. such a percentage .... idiots (according to Dostoevsky) on the site ??? belay

                Those. CHSEL climbs the sites. seeks out "clever" words "and ... bats ... with correction for his thoughts gives out on the air and everything (well, or almost everything) fellow

                К request where are we going then ?????

                But in reality, when designing ed. 9.15, there was a "design thought" about how to increase the assigned resources and the calendar, as well as reduce the RCS try make a welded power structure and glue it with composites.
                The idea failed miserably, because. aluminum-lithium alloy "01420" during welding could not withstand even minimal loads, so this idea "lost" and returned to the normal assembly scheme.

                But you need to KNOW this!

                Quote: Corsair
                Under "static", without shaking, vibrations and "bends", the product will serve the whole period ...


                And by the way ... static tests just mean all static and dynamic loads .... and you offer almost vacuum conditions in zero gravity wassat



                1. 2vladim2
                  2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 06
                  +6
                  Guys! But we are discussing the project of the aircraft here. I’m more concerned not with welding, but with the timing of its serial production. It will take a long time to wait until 2020. I’m not the General Staff, but maybe they will think about how to reduce the construction time? SUCH A PLANE WE NEED NOW!
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 31 August 2013 19: 31
                    39
                    Quote: 2vladim2
                    But here we are discussing the aircraft project itself.


                    What to discuss? A WONDERFUL project, WONDERFUL the plane will be!

                    We have designed a car that, on "intermediate" motors, pops out of all TTX like a cork from a bottle!

                    The fact that SyuBogdan showed at the MAX ... is 30% of the aircraft's capabilities, because. on LCI there are always "restrictions" and the maximum overload was no more than 5!
                    Avenger 711, lay out a copy of the JUK tape or so .. believe? wassat

                    The terms of serial production after 2017 are real, but for now we have everything and the Su-35S and Su-30SM, I hope the MiG-35 will not be "S", but real!

                    Here you can’t hurry in any way, if you do, then DO, and not show off. As amers clumsy bend, and then "rake" problems "!

                    The fact that I need a plane now is a good idea. but miracles do not happen! +! drinks
                    1. 11Goor11
                      11Goor11 1 September 2013 14: 03
                      +2
                      vaf WONDERFUL will be the plane!

                      Well, if "caustic" and straightforward Sergei said that this bird was created for the sky, then for the sky! :)
                      Greetings to Sergey, I wish you health!
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. Corsair
                  Corsair 31 August 2013 21: 58
                  +3
                  Quote: vaf
                  But you need to KNOW this!


                  At the household level, not everyone will need knowledge on the specifics of welding various metals request
                  Quote: vaf
                  And by the way ... static tests just mean all static and dynamic loads .... and you offer almost vacuum conditions in zero gravity


                  I described the operating conditions ...
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 31 August 2013 22: 51
                    +4
                    Quote: Corsair
                    At the household level, not everyone will need knowledge on the specifics of welding various metals


                    Dear Corsair, I didn’t mean that, but that of the “avia haspishela” who claims that the power set on the MiG-35 (although it was a MiG-29M ... was welded).
                    He generally has a lot of "pearls" in all areas, so .... this is not about you (what you need to know is exactly how the plane is "assembled") drinks

                    Quote: Corsair
                    I described the operating conditions ...


                    There are no such operating conditions for aircraft!
                    If so, then all planes would fly forever! fellow
                4. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 1 September 2013 00: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: vaf
                  Here ... read- "The main reason for the transfer of production is in the technological difference between the airframe edition 9-15 from all 29s with" gills ", which were more than 65% riveted and the 35th was almost completely (for metal) welded"

                  By the way, I came across a similar description of the Su-37:
                  first, it was said about the use of new alloys (aluminum-lithium) in the aircraft structure, and then about the use of welding instead of rivets.
                5. aviator65
                  aviator65 5 September 2013 15: 34
                  0
                  Yes, they cooked "9-12" from the very beginning. At least the fuselage for sure. For this, even a special aluminum-lithium alloy was used in the design. As for the "gills", for the first time they were abandoned at "9-31". It is clear that there is no need to cover the air intakes on the deck. And then this decision was already repeated on "9-15", but protective nets were installed in the air intakes similarly to the Su-27. Maybe such a solution is simply more technologically advanced, and in terms of weight, it is probably better. In addition, the landing gear "9-15" is higher.
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 6 September 2013 16: 28
                    0
                    Quote: aviator65
                    Maybe such a solution is simply more technologically advanced, and in terms of weight it seems to be better.

                    In addition, the place of the upper duct was taken under the fuel tank.
              4. tetatus
                tetatus 31 August 2013 23: 48
                +1
                In the fa fa, they seem to use composite materials
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Garrin
            Garrin 2 September 2013 06: 46
            +1
            Quote: Corsair
            In an argon environment, it "cooks" for - once! But RIVET is exactly the case when a certain "flexibility" is achieved under dynamic load with sufficient strength ...

            Everything is correct. I will only add that riveted and soldered joints are the best "tolerate" vibration. Look at the missile bodies.
          3. Black Colonel
            Black Colonel 2 September 2013 15: 34
            0
            The technology is refined - yes, it is more accurate to calculate the rivet for strength than welding.
            1. postman
              postman 2 September 2013 17: 37
              0
              Quote: Black Colonel
              more accurately calculate the strength than welding.

              And not only this.
              -Rivet keeps temperature deformation (and even taking into account the different metals used)

              For the same 25th and 31st: somewhere + 300g. C, somewhere + 20g. C
              - easier to replace (easily accessible anyway)

              =======
              Welding wins in weight, and this is understandable
      3. The Indian Joe
        The Indian Joe 31 August 2013 10: 23
        +8
        Nothing of the kind. In the USA, aviation technology is also riveted, although composites are used quite widely. But composites are enough for PAK-FA, about 20%.
      4. nikolaxp
        nikolaxp 31 August 2013 11: 12
        11
        Quote: AK-47
        Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.


        With such loads that super-maneuverable aircraft experience, especially the 5th generation, no spot welding will help, therefore only rivets. F22 and F35 are also entirely riveted, only then they paint over well so that it is not visible.
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 31 August 2013 11: 17
          15
          There are not only rivets by the way.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 31 August 2013 12: 58
            24
            Quote: donavi49
            There are not only rivets by the way.


            American aircraft technician "takes" on the "self-tapping" the falling skin of the F-22 wassat laughing
            1. Mista_dj
              Mista_dj 1 September 2013 09: 05
              +2
              Hey heyhyyy
              laughing
            2. Bugor
              Bugor 1 September 2013 20: 46
              +5
              This is not a self-tapping screw. This is it with a wire - the eight twists the parts, and the pilot on the other side of the aircraft holds the second end.
            3. sir.jonn
              sir.jonn 1 September 2013 21: 50
              +1
              When flying on any passenger, look through the hatch on the wing, there are many screws as in the photo. This method of fastening the casing is necessary for access to the serviced nodes.
              And it is not clear the doubt about the suitability of riveting and screw fasteners, this is not archaism, but the technology is indispensable for the installation of structures with uneven thermal expansion.
              1. studentmati
                studentmati 1 September 2013 21: 56
                +2
                Quote: sir.jonn
                with uneven thermal expansion.


                ... and constant alternating loads ...
          2. igor67
            igor67 31 August 2013 16: 24
            10
            Quote: donavi49
            There are not only rivets by the way.

            Do you think that on Soviet - Russian cars, fairings and armor plates are welded by welding? Also on the screws,
      5. fokino1980
        fokino1980 31 August 2013 14: 48
        +4
        If a person judges what he does not know and does not understand, then this person is "great" laughing
      6. 2vladim2
        2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 09
        +1
        It's time. But that's not the point. Dates! That's what worries me. Long before 20 years to wait.
      7. zagoria
        zagoria 1 September 2013 04: 34
        +1
        surprisingly? for durability? for something else? stamping or, at worst, spot welding? shshsttt! UTB is still a secret !!! 22 centuries, minimum.
      8. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 1 September 2013 05: 20
        +1
        riveted knots are much stronger than welded ones, and during overloads during maneuvering, welding may not withstand.
      9. Siberian German
        Siberian German 1 September 2013 06: 30
        +1
        I will tell you - during the 2nd World War, the Germans had the biggest potoys among the new boats that were welded, but the old boats that were riveted were very tenacious
        1. Mista_dj
          Mista_dj 1 September 2013 09: 09
          +1
          can I have a pruff link?
          No.
      10. Dazdranagon
        Dazdranagon 2 September 2013 09: 52
        0
        Hello, we arrived ... Welding for vibrating loads !? laughing
      11. sashka
        sashka 2 September 2013 13: 53
        +1
        Quote: AK-47
        Quote: Sasha
        you just need to insert it into the hole and heat up .. It will take the desired shape.

        Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.

        At worst. You can’t say more correctly.))) It's just that the ends are different ..
      12. sashka
        sashka 2 September 2013 14: 04
        +1
        Quote: AK-47
        Quote: Sasha
        you just need to insert it into the hole and heat up .. It will take the desired shape.

        Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.

        At worst, a doctor is needed. Not a doctor, but a doctor. A stamp on the head in the most prominent place.
      13. Quiet
        Quiet 3 September 2013 23: 57
        +1
        Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.

        Can you offer glue "Moment" ???? laughing lol
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad 4 September 2013 14: 24
          +1
          glued joints were used in the aircraft industry - I don’t remember exactly - somewhere in the 60s.
      14. Novosib980
        Novosib980 4 September 2013 13: 51
        0
        You go, at worst!
      15. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. w.ebdo.g
        w.ebdo.g 31 August 2013 12: 22
        17
        awesome photo!)))

        over Peter ...


        1. Corsair
          Corsair 31 August 2013 12: 48
          23
          Quote: w.ebdo.g
          awesome photo!)))


          Affinity installation!

          Those who have made jumps know WHERE and WHY they will fly away from the head of this "parachutist" ...
          1. maxon106
            maxon106 1 September 2013 05: 10
            +9
            He is on rivets, or on spot welding!
          2. ksan
            ksan 1 September 2013 23: 13
            +2

            Affinity installation!

            Those who have made jumps know WHERE and WHY they will fly away and take from the head of this "parachutist" ..
            One hundred pounds !! soldier "Parachutist" - disguised soldier
          3. Quiet
            Quiet 4 September 2013 00: 05
            +2
            Those who have made jumps know WHERE and WHY they will fly away from the head of this "parachutist" ...

            He doesn’t even bend his collar from the airflow !!! And then there are no idiots to give permission to jump in the center of St. Petersburg on a neutral dome.
          4. aviator65
            aviator65 5 September 2013 15: 36
            0
            He is on his rubber band. laughing
        2. Mista_dj
          Mista_dj 1 September 2013 09: 10
          +6
          And he takes it to his head - is it nailed to a nail?
        3. Quiet
          Quiet 4 September 2013 00: 01
          +1
          awesome photo!)))

          Pure water montage !!!!
      2. smile
        smile 31 August 2013 16: 05
        +8
        w.ebdo.g
        Your campaign is very reminiscent of an attempt to convene another Bolotnaya ... only misleading people allegedly by what Putin called for .... tell me where and when Putin asked for the support of the people in order to change the status of the Central Bank? He has enough authority to carry out any changes, it is enough to issue a decree, or to change the constitution, using the parliamentary majority.

        I do not know what goals you are achieving, but one thing I can say for sure - you cannot blatantly lie to the people, both in numbers about "tribute" and about who supports you, or rather, whose name you hide behind ... otherwise everything, what you are going to build will be built on lies. A good foundation, there is nothing to say ... why are you better than the bogs then? ... Or rather, they smell so much from you ... you can feel it a mile away ... and handwriting - hide behind someone, to mislead people - easily recognizable ...
        I wish first to find a conscience, and then get into politics, in our government there are already enough unscrupulous people ... you still haven’t been there, such handsome men ...
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 31 August 2013 17: 30
          +1
          And when the president needs something directly from us - that’s how he will order and will be brought to me. By legal channels, as expected. And so we will do what there ...
        2. w.ebdo.g
          w.ebdo.g 31 August 2013 19: 44
          0
          smile, specially for you, I found a detailed video with a full explanation of what the constitution is (which you have never read), spend one hour of time, watch the video and hope that you will begin to look at the central bank and the constitution completely like a friend ...
          look, think and give a detailed version of your vision of what legislators and scientists discussed in this video.
          Your opinion is very important to me.
          I'm waiting!


          and here are some more details ...
          1. alex-defensor
            alex-defensor 31 August 2013 20: 17
            +3
            I read the Constitution, as it relates to my profession (lawyer). Starikov’s speeches on this issue were heard, he even visited his organization - PGR for some time, but this person is incompetent in legal matters, and his conclusions regarding the Constitution are nonsense.
            To clarify this issue is a long time, not a comment format.
            1. w.ebdo.g
              w.ebdo.g 31 August 2013 21: 17
              +1
              alex-defensor, believe me, everyone on the site has read your unsubscribe and the groundless statement that you are a "lawyer" and that you have been everywhere (only you didn’t fly to the moon. joke)
              well, since you are such a cool lawyer, you can come down from your pedestal and explain to us sinful your vision (briefly) from the first video that I presented to you in my top post ...
              Especially welcome is the handling of article numbers from the constitution)))
              highlight the rule of constitutional change and what the central bank of the Russian Federation is like.
              elucidate only two specific questions. it won't be long (if you don't eat and start "humming" that you have little time and that you are an awesome lawyer (no name), and in general the "format" of the site (we are all stupid here) does not allow you to condescend to this self-deprecation that you have to demonstrate your wonderful knowledge ...
              have something to answer on these questions?
              Indicate specific articles of the constitution that are responsible for these issues. you can not? for some reason I knew ...)))
              these are SPECIFIC ARTICLES OF THE CONSTITUTION. Have you read it, "lawyer"?
              the appanion disrespected by me.
              1. papik09
                papik09 1 September 2013 04: 34
                +5
                Respected. And you are not mistaken with the address for writing your "opinions" on the Constitution and "lawyers"? For some reason it seems to me that there is a completely different discussion going on here. Your place is near .... well, everyone is aware of the movie "Gentlemen of Fortune"
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 31 August 2013 20: 37
            +5
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            smile, specially for you I found a detailed video with a full explanation of what the constitution is (which you never read)


            It's not that.

            The question WHO gave you the right to use the VO "platform" to promote your radical political aspirations?
            1. smile
              smile 31 August 2013 23: 51
              0
              Corsair
              And what kind of canoe was this proclamation ... do you know anything about who is behind this? It looks like Gaponism very much: -Let's go help the tsar, he requires our support to amend the Constitution and nationalize the central bank, Putin called us .. the bugs are gathering, and there are appropriate speakers ... and then their unauthorized rally is met with riot police ... the crowd -tooths on the shelf .... Putin is bad-cheated! :))) someone in the corner rubs sweaty little hands ...
            2. Grishka100watt
              Grishka100watt 1 September 2013 00: 01
              -2
              The question WHO gave you the right to use the VO "platform" to promote your radical political aspirations?

              Sensation. Just a sensation. That wrapped it up!

              In general, the garbage is complete. When did this president’s support become a radical political aspiration?
          3. smile
            smile 31 August 2013 23: 39
            +2
            w.ebdo.g
            Just found your answer. Especially for you inform. I read the Constitution ... honestly, honestly ... even in the first year of law faculty ... and later I had to ... :)))
            Listen, you gave the video almost FOUR AND A half HOURS !!! Are you laughing? I can’t understand why I don’t give a mark, I don’t understand why ... and I can’t see for four and a half hours ... I can watch half an hour or an hour in the afternoon (Moscow time) ... while I am inclined to read your words about interest in my opinion, a sub-secret ...
            And it wouldn’t hurt you to tell when and to whom Putin turned for allegedly the support of the people on that day and where you indicated ... it would be nice if he himself explained on the video you provided why he couldn’t cope on his own. .. while this looks like a well-planned provocation, very similar to the one organized by the pop Gapon .... it would also be nice to find out who the organizers of the procession are, whether they have permission for the action, the indicated number ... but only in PM - I do not want to participate in the dissemination of a suspicious thing. I will also write to you in PM. If you agree to the terms, respond ...
        3. Grishka100watt
          Grishka100watt 31 August 2013 23: 23
          +2
          He has enough authority to carry out any changes, it is enough to issue a decree, or to change the constitution, using the parliamentary majority
          Does he have a parliamentary majority of 2 \ 3 in the Duma and 3 \ 4 in the Federation Council?
          In 2003, he tried to change the status of the Central Bank. Even the Communist Party voted against.
          1. smile
            smile 1 September 2013 00: 25
            0
            Grishka100watt
            It's not a qualified majority ... by the way. I confess I did not know. that Putin wanted to nationalize the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, and the Communist Party voted against ... you also, I hope, have not forgotten that the Liberal Democratic Party on fundamental issues always supports Edro ... I would be grateful for the approximate date or name of the bill ... although so I will find ...
            but this is not the main thing. Our colleague distributed a leaflet in which he claims (I read it twice and very carefully, before I deleted it, I still had time to leave a comment) that Putin asked his people to support him in the fight against officials and put himself somewhere express support ... it is VERY like a provocation ....
            I personally have not heard of such requests. If you heard, discard the link to the president’s appeal to the people. If it’s not there, it’s a nonsense fraud a la January 9, 905, forgive my French, and then I don’t give a damn about all the other arguments about the Constitution ... -because they are built on lies, they use provocation and, therefore, just a disinformation hiding the true goals of the organizers ....
            By the way, in this case, perhaps, Starikov is also substituted, there is no evidence that this is his initiative, I'll go to his site tomorrow, I'll see ...
            if there are links to Putin, I will be grateful ... no - and there’s nothing to talk about - they are trying to ... brazenly deceive and dump all the bumps on Pu ....
            1. Grishka100watt
              Grishka100watt 1 September 2013 09: 48
              -1
              Believe me, if Putin, as you think, had a parliamentary majority, the issue would have been resolved a long time ago.
              And about the direct request of Putin ....
              You see, he cannot yet say this himself, since this can be classified as an attempted coup. With a stretch, but possible. Many media will say just that.
              For example, it is clear to me that without the support of the people, the parliament will not accept changes in the constitution. I figured out the issue myself, and I do not need to be personally asked by Putin. And those who take to the streets 21, think the same way. And it will not be cattle, which can be heated up and sent to smash the parliament. The contingent is different, understand?
              1. smile
                smile 1 September 2013 13: 43
                0
                Grishka100watt
                Excuse me. but such things are not done. And I suppose you could be a victim of deception. If Putin would need a crowd in the streets, this would be calmly tackled by Edro. They have every opportunity for this. And in any case, edrosses would not be silent about this initiative like a fish on ice, and would not entrust the organization of mass actions to anyone .... this is indeed a clear classic provocation ....
                As for the one who takes to the streets, so different people will go out, including the marsh ones, you can be 100% sure of these ... and the crowd is a beast devoid of reason ... trust me, please, and consider whether it’s worth participating in such events organized by anyone and for what purpose .... all the more, pay attention to my direct questions w.ebdo.g, supposedly interested in my opinion and waiting for him, so and didn’t answer ... why do you think? And be sure to check if the rally is authorized .... oh, I'm afraid you will get .....
    3. Civil
      Civil 31 August 2013 12: 26
      +2
      Already a hundred forums are clogged with these rivets
      1. 2vladim2
        2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 15
        +2
        I also think. They say about rivets, but they don't talk about TTD. Although the approximate parameters would be called "welders".
    4. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 31 August 2013 12: 38
      21
      cool daddy)))

      1. duke
        duke 31 August 2013 16: 54
        +3
        do not confuse - it doesn’t say anywhere that conscious enemies of the people and faith must be cheeked (although sometimes this is also a feat), otherwise whoever protects women and children and the elderly is said (blessed is he who will lay down his soul for his own) ... the fact that sometimes it is necessary to substitute (personally) for a person to think about whether he is doing the right thing, that he hit his brother, was ashamed and asked for forgiveness ... but for example, the Wahhabis will not understand, they will laugh at the wrong and will cut with great frenzy. ..
    5. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 31 August 2013 12: 43
      49
      rate the photo)))


      1. Sirius-2
        Sirius-2 31 August 2013 18: 12
        0
        Or this poster!
      2. 2vladim2
        2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 17
        +1
        Great photo! With a deep meaning!
      3. phantom359
        phantom359 7 September 2013 21: 23
        0
        Quote: w.ebdo.g
        rate the photo)))


        That's it. Our opposition needs to tell this. Although what the fuck the opposition, a herd of jackals, greedy and greedy, ready to surrender for the euro.
    6. Canep
      Canep 2 September 2013 06: 20
      0
      Quote: Sasha
      But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

      What to dig into is an experienced machine, the welded version will most likely go into the series.
    7. seller trucks
      seller trucks 2 September 2013 14: 13
      0
      Quote: Sasha
      And there are those that you just need to insert into the hole and heat.


      there is one unpleasant moment, when using "hot" riveting, after cooling, a backlash appears in the joint over time, so the advantage of "cold" riveting is obvious
    8. DimychDV
      DimychDV 2 September 2013 16: 02
      0
      In addition, they can also be a disguise.
  2. edge
    edge 31 August 2013 08: 11
    +3
    .... swallow-dream
  3. Professor
    Professor 31 August 2013 08: 15
    -41 qualifying.
    But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

    I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.
    1. sashka
      sashka 31 August 2013 08: 33
      12
      Quote: Professor
      But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

      I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.

      In vain, you hope and think .. In Tashkent, everything was. Any and any .. Maybe not everything has been fucked up yet)))
      1. Professor
        Professor 31 August 2013 08: 52
        -14 qualifying.
        Where did you see my hopes here? A couple of years ago, a delegation of Sukhoi came to Elbit (who is not aware of Elbit doing some details on the Superjet) and was shocked by the rivet robot. They stood with their mouths open.

        PS
        Is Tashkent in Russia?
        1. sashka
          sashka 31 August 2013 10: 37
          12
          Quote: Professor
          They stood with their mouths open.

          PS
          Is Tashkent in Russia?

          No, I think that not everything was passed into ferrous metal. Something fell to Russia too. What I did, I know and can, and I speak. If you or they came and saw how the "Ruslan" is being made, they would definitely have the balls rolled out .. For the Word "hope" I beg your pardon .. "it burst out" by chance ..
        2. ruslan207
          ruslan207 31 August 2013 16: 02
          -6
          Professor, how do you know what rivets are there, what they rivet with robots or not. You look at simple factories, there are antediluvian 60 year old Italian machines
          1. Professor
            Professor 31 August 2013 16: 26
            +4
            Quote: ruslan207
            Professor, how do you know what rivets are there, what they rivet with robots or not. You look at simple factories, there are antediluvian 60 year old Italian machines

            Firstly, they did not switch to "you", and secondly, I personally saw them.
            1. ruslan207
              ruslan207 31 August 2013 20: 09
              +3
              I don’t believe me personally, I saw how the T-50s riveted laughing
          2. igor67
            igor67 31 August 2013 16: 40
            +9
            Quote: ruslan207
            Professor, how do you know what rivets are there, what they rivet with robots or not. You look at simple factories, there are antediluvian 60 year old Italian machines

            The last time I saw a riveter 13 years ago, when I was leaving, I don’t think that anything has changed, the riveters rivet pneumatically with hammers, there are still rivets, they were put into hard-to-reach non-bearing parts, there are still hard-to-reach rivets with a charge, after an impact the hammer on the reverse side triggers a charge and pecks the connection itself.
            1. SPACE
              SPACE 31 August 2013 20: 51
              +2
              Quote: igor67
              was shocked by the riveter robot

              Quote: igor67
              what are robots riveting or not

              Quote: igor67
              Last time I saw a riveter 13 years ago

              I believe robots are effective and necessary for large-scale production, in addition for their use it is necessary to have rigid stocks again with robots fasteners and a bunch of technological holes for an exact fit, and then the conveyor laughing Programmed a little robot what faster to do manually laughing We have in Kazakhstan Fanuki stack bricks in piles, then that! laughing and you can also fasten a chair on them and the roller coaster is restinglaughing
            2. ruslan207
              ruslan207 31 August 2013 21: 43
              -4
              The MiG-25 is generally welded and even the MiG-35 heard it, too, it seems like welding was used in it back in the 30s, it was used in the USSR when boarding the skin on airplanes
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 1 September 2013 13: 06
                +1
                Quote: ruslan207
                Mig-25 is generally welded ....

                Unlike other planes. he has stainless steel plating
          3. 2vladim2
            2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 23
            0
            So they need to be changed. And then we’ll talk about welding. Because of this welding, they don’t say anything about the plane. And I would like to know more. I read that he will immediately replace three planes (of other designs). Specials! It's true? Return to the discussion thread.
            1. kush62
              kush62 31 August 2013 19: 50
              +2
              You read about long-range aviation.
            2. sashka
              sashka 2 September 2013 12: 48
              0
              Quote: 2vladim2
              I read that he will immediately replace three aircraft (of other designs). Specials! It's true?

              Build one big plane and let yourself fly around the Earth .. Fun really?
        3. 2vladim2
          2vladim2 31 August 2013 19: 18
          +1
          And you saw it yourself? Or from the stories?
        4. AlNikolaich
          AlNikolaich 2 September 2013 21: 24
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          PS
          Is Tashkent in Russia?

          Greetings! And in geography we’ll put a deuce? Or joke like that? hi
      2. ed65b
        ed65b 31 August 2013 12: 27
        +5
        Quote: Sasha
        Quote: Professor
        But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

        I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.

        In vain, you hope and think .. In Tashkent, everything was. Any and any .. Maybe not everything has been fucked up yet)))

        In Tashkent, instead of a factory, there is now a market. laughing
        1. alone
          alone 31 August 2013 16: 40
          +3
          wassat and instead of the machine a melon stands as a mountain))
      3. Nayhas
        Nayhas 31 August 2013 13: 44
        +5
        Quote: Sasha
        In vain, you hope and think .. In Tashkent, everything was. Any and any .. Maybe not everything has been fucked up yet)))

        I don’t know how Tashkent is in Novosibirsk at NAPO named after Chkalov recently needed riveters a salary of 20 thousand rubles.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 31 August 2013 11: 30
      14
      Quote: Professor
      I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.


      Professor, I will be grateful for the photo of the robot - the riveter working on the assembly F - 22 or F - 35
      1. Professor
        Professor 31 August 2013 12: 40
        -1
        Quote: Corsair
        Professor, I will be grateful for the photo of the robot - the riveter working on the assembly F - 22 or F - 35

        Unfortunately, I do not have photos of the riveting process.
        1. yanus
          yanus 31 August 2013 16: 01
          17
          Quote: Professor
          Unfortunately, I do not have photos of the riveting process.

          And photos of the dry delegation with open mouths, who were surprised at the work of the rivet robot?
          Well, yes, pease ** don't turn bags ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 31 August 2013 16: 21
            -1
            Quote: yanus
            And photos of the dry delegation with open mouths, who were surprised at the work of the rivet robot?
            Well, yes, pease ** don't turn bags ...

            I have never been caught here in a lie.
            Try to bring the camera to Elbit and take a photo. Good luck.
            1. yanus
              yanus 31 August 2013 17: 11
              15
              Quote: Professor
              I have never been caught here in a lie.

              Offhand, I can recall a story when you posted a video of a missile hitting a T-72, where it was demolished by a tower. At first you persistently argued that it was a "hellfire", the next time you posted the same video, where the rocket became a "mavirik". While this is not a lie, it is a "misunderstanding" (c).
              Well, but about ours on Elbit you probably "familiar tanker" (s) told you?
              1. Professor
                Professor 31 August 2013 17: 15
                -8
                Let the links not these comments, then we continue about the taxi driver.
                1. Refund_SSSR
                  Refund_SSSR 1 September 2013 16: 31
                  11
                  Quote: Professor
                  I have never been caught here in a lie.

                  Ahahaha, I immediately remembered a shot from the movie "Brother-2"
            2. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 31 August 2013 19: 15
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              Try to bring the camera to Elbit and take a photo. Good luck.

              A cruise missile "under its own power" is possible? laughing
              1. Professor
                Professor 31 August 2013 19: 53
                +6
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                A cruise missile "under its own power" is possible?

                It’s possible, then Superjets will not leave the slipway. laughing
                1. Chicot 1
                  Chicot 1 1 September 2013 22: 07
                  +3
                  Quote: Professor
                  It’s possible, then Superjets will not leave the slipway

                  Century poppy did not give birth and there was no hunger.

                  Do not come down and do not. The absence of this product of the activity of an effective Pogosyan genius will not harm the Russian aircraft industry and Russian air carriers too much. It is possible that even this will only be beneficial ... wink
            3. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 31 August 2013 21: 56
              +4
              Quote: Professor
              I have never been caught here in a lie.

              Professor! Return to 31 of May of this year and take soya words back!
            4. ruslan207
              ruslan207 1 September 2013 11: 24
              +2
              It’s unlikely to work there. They’re checking the phone’s camera with tape.
            5. Bugor
              Bugor 5 September 2013 13: 05
              0
              Quote: Professor
              I'm not lying yet here was not caught.

              Professor, nothing personal, just why did you answer that way? Have you been caught lying already somewhere?
              1. Professor
                Professor 5 September 2013 15: 11
                -1
                like they didn’t catch anywhere here either. No.
          2. alone
            alone 31 August 2013 16: 41
            +5
            Do you think this will be given with photographing?)) regardless where, all this is a state secret.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Versed
          Versed 10 September 2013 17: 43
          -1
          F-35 fifth generation assembly line
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c12ArVHzSSQ

          Assembly conveyor F-35
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxGfAjWaOhg
      2. duke
        duke 31 August 2013 16: 56
        +2
        Shchaz you prokhvessor secret Old discards ... pocket already hold?
      3. postman
        postman 31 August 2013 18: 38
        15
        Quote: Corsair
        Professor, I will be grateful for the photo of the robot - the riveter working on the assembly F - 22 or F - 35

        Let me for a professor ... maybe I saw:
        Boeing: SpiritAerosystems supplies these robots.

        AIRBUS, Lockheed Martin (F-22 and F-35) use Kuka Systems, Comau Aerospace, Dassault Systems, Gemcor, KUKA and Delmia. and Fanuc Robotics

        Kuka Systems has supplied over 200 robots for use in the aerospace industry.


        AIRBUS Espana (Spain) uses a mobile 3-axis robotic system for drilling its own design.

        Spanish concern MTorres has developed its equipment - this is a small robot FDH (Flexible Drilling Head), which moves around the fuselage. It is installed in place with the help of vacuum suction cups, carries out drilling and riveting until further movement at a speed of 3,5 mm / min. to the next position.

        This 5-axis robot, which weighs about 100 kg, is used in the AIRBUS A380 program to drill about 8500 holes in the fuselage section 19.

        Germany's leading technical institute Fraunhofer Institute - technological know-how.
        1. Professor
          Professor 31 August 2013 19: 23
          +9
          Dear postman, why are you upsetting people like that? There are so many urapatriots and just naive people who have given me minuses, and you are here with your robots ... sad
          1. yanus
            yanus 31 August 2013 20: 58
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            Dear postman, why are you upsetting people like that? There are so many urapatriots and just naive people who have given me minuses, and you are here with your robots ... sad

            You probably thought that seeing this, everyone would cry? Maybe we thought we didn't believe such robots existed? Well no. Tellingly, even "we don't look with open mouths."
            But the "delegation from the dry" was well sooooo very much amazed. Apparently they don't know what the aviation industry is ... Dense ones ... By the way, did they beg for a robot? Didn't they beg? Not? )))
          2. poquello
            poquello 31 August 2013 22: 59
            +3
            Quote: Professor
            Dear postman, why are you upsetting people like that? There are so many urapatriots and just naive people who have given me minuses, and you are here with your robots ... sad

            Are you talking about a precision gantry crane a la Boeing?
          3. Russ69
            Russ69 31 August 2013 23: 58
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            Dear postman, why are you upsetting people like that? There are so many urapatriots and just naive people who have given me minuses, and you are here with your robots ... sad


            The same Superjet is also not manually riveted, at least not all.

            http://sergeydolya.livejournal.com/394740.html
          4. postman
            postman 1 September 2013 15: 21
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            Are you so upset about the people?


            Sorry ... I could not resist. the topic is too close.
            For reference (about manual riveting in Russia)
            Airbus UK - the share of manual riveting and drilling - is about 40% (if you have not forgotten).
            T.ch. we are not so bad recourse

            And the cons .... Well, what to do.
            Somewhere +, somewhere -
          5. ruslan207
            ruslan207 1 September 2013 16: 35
            0
            Well, professor, did you know the ups and downs you don’t get used to laughing
        2. sir.jonn
          sir.jonn 1 September 2013 22: 23
          0
          Quote: Postman
          This 5-axis robot, which weighs about 100 kg, is used in the AIRBUS A380 program to drill about 8500 holes in the fuselage section 19.

          Now move this 5-axis robot with the A-380, with its areas, to the fighter and that he will drill and rivet there. Such a technique is necessary for the corresponding products and does not apply to designs where 8500 holes are possibly applicable to a dozen aircraft.
        3. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 2 September 2013 15: 58
          0
          Since 1985, KUKA (Germany) supplied automatic welding lines (robotic) to Rostselmash. The first impression from the seen work of the manipulators was indelible, I JUST OH ... (WAS EXTREMELY SURPRISED)! As, however, others. There was also COMAU (Italy). As explained, COMAU mounted manipulators purchased from KUKA under its own brand.
          1. postman
            postman 4 September 2013 14: 51
            0
            Quote: Black Colonel
            Since 1985, they were supplied to Rostselmash by KUKA (Germany)

            Seriously? did not know.
            Well, on PCM - a simpler product than the aircraft industry.
            In general, I think we have a problem systemic.
            It was not in vain in Baumanka that there was a saying:
            "If you are at all, come to our AM" ..
            AM - Faculty of Automation and Mechanization.
            Maybe rhyme, and maybe relevant to this area (which is more likely)
    3. biglow
      biglow 31 August 2013 17: 13
      19
      Quote: Professor
      But I wonder what method they used to set rivets? What do you think?

      I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.

      tell the professor why you are so fond of dirtying your former homeland for any reason. Which fed you and raised you and also released to Israel. You didn’t go from Israel to the Gulag.
      Does all of you Jews have such a popular tradition ...?
      Who knows what might happen in the Middle East
      , maybe even urgently have to go back?
      ... Do not spit in the well ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 31 August 2013 17: 18
        0
        Quote: biglow
        tell the professor why you are so fond of dirtying your former homeland for any reason.

        And where am I sniffing her here? Have you seen the robot riveter in the USSR / Russia? Me neither.

        Quote: biglow
        Which fed you and raised you and also released to Israel.

        Low bow to her that she released and did not have to dump under the machine-gun bursts. After all, she "fed and raised" me, and how can you want to leave her after this?

        Quote: biglow
        Who knows what might happen in the Middle East
        , maybe even urgently have to go back?

        Do not wait, never come back.
        1. yanus
          yanus 31 August 2013 17: 46
          27
          Quote: Professor
          Do not wait, never come back.

          Right, right. Do not come back. I seriously and wholeheartedly advise.
          There are not many returnees from Israel, but there are - I know a couple. They always love to tell how well they live in Israel, what a cool Tzahal, Mossad, but in Russia everything is through j0pu. Almost everything completely coincides with your statements.
          True, in this case, the question inevitably follows - what did he return to wretched Russia? Usually, they mumble something slurred, change the subject immediately ...
          Better to sit in Israel and say - "I'm not a loser, I'm not a loser, it just happened ... and in general, it's much better here than in a lousy rushka". And also, you can assert yourself on Russian-language forums, talking about how well you live.
          So one character with whom I intersect on working moments told me that horror in Russia is all around the mafia, disassembly, roofing, robbery (he left in the early 90's). I am already now afraid to return to Russia. And this character himself, by the way, lives two blocks from Harlem)))
          So don’t come back. Take care of your nerves.
          1. Professor
            Professor 31 August 2013 19: 41
            +4
            Quote: yanus
            Right, right. Do not come back.

            Will not come back. I won’t even explain why, don’t understand.
            I wish the people of Russia to live in health, prosperity and freedom.

            PS
            A case from life, not about me ...
            Happiness is different ...
            Sovdepovskoe time, travel abroad.
            An engineer with some Jewish surname, say, Herzon, worked at our research institute. Quietly did his work, and no one ever heard his voice. And suddenly he decided to leave. Event. A trade union meeting is urgently convening. Different leaders are speaking, like, a traitor to the Motherland, the country has brought you up, ideologically educated you. And our Kherzon sits, hanged his head, and everyone can see that the guy is suffering, not in himself. Still, after all, they explain to him that with his departure everything will roll downhill to the damn mother, the whole world in the whole world, fucking his rotten bones.
            When the client has ripened, according to the calculations of the presidium, he was given the floor.
            "Comrades!, "he said, and many were surprised that he could speak at all.
            "At this historical moment, complex feelings overwhelm me. I'm happy to hear all this nonsense for the last time".
            Hall applauded standing. They didn’t let him finish.
            1. AlNikolaich
              AlNikolaich 2 September 2013 21: 48
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              Will not come back. I won’t even explain why, don’t understand.
              I wish the people of Russia to live in health, prosperity and freedom.

              Nooo dear! Come back !!! You’ll definitely come back ... I see (or something ... I can smell it!)
              Otherwise, where does this criticism of all of Russia come from? From love to the motherland! You implicitly wish that she would become better! Come back, and ...
          2. Aljavad
            Aljavad 4 September 2013 14: 50
            +1
            Also talked with several repatriates. Keynote: something cooler there, something here. But one of them came to insert teeth (!) In Russia.
            1. Professor
              Professor 4 September 2013 15: 15
              +2
              Quote: Aljavad
              But one of them came to insert teeth (!) In Russia.

              After 20 years of work in Israel, my dentist returned to Novosibirsk and opened a clinic there. He was a specialist from God and I to him would go to insert teeth even in Siberia.
        2. biglow
          biglow 31 August 2013 18: 00
          +9
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: biglow
          tell the professor why you are so fond of dirtying your former homeland for any reason.

          And where am I sniffing her here? Have you seen the robot riveter in the USSR / Russia? Me neither.

          Quote: biglow
          Which fed you and raised you and also released to Israel.

          Low bow to her that she released and did not have to dump under the machine-gun bursts. After all, she "fed and raised" me, and how can you want to leave her after this?

          Quote: biglow
          Who knows what might happen in the Middle East
          , maybe even urgently have to go back?

          Do not wait, never come back.

          I also hope that World War 3 will not start from Syria and that everything will be fine. But the fact that all your posts are filled with dislike for your former country is a fact ..
        3. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 31 August 2013 19: 17
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          Do not wait, never come back.

          And on horseradish goat button accordion?
        4. Corsair
          Corsair 31 August 2013 20: 45
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          And where am I sniffing her here? Have you seen the robot riveter in the USSR / Russia? Me neither.


          Professor Have you watched the film DMB? Stretch yourself and remember the episode "about the gopher" wink
        5. aleshka
          aleshka 31 August 2013 20: 49
          +3
          from Sumy and from prison, do not renounce !!! And you are trying to crap our Motherland in every post !! Well, well, Jews have a lot of shit !!
        6. APASUS
          APASUS 31 August 2013 21: 05
          11
          Quote: Professor
          Do not wait, never come back.

          Professor, from the experience of my small but substantial life, I learned one lesson -
          Never say never"!
        7. maxon106
          maxon106 1 September 2013 05: 21
          +2
          And glory to God, it’s for the better!
        8. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 1 September 2013 16: 38
          +1

          Never wait never come back

          We all hope so.
        9. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 1 September 2013 21: 59
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Do not wait, never come back.

          Do not promise. "Never say never". Man suggests and God disposes.
        10. sashka
          sashka 7 September 2013 23: 12
          0
          Quote: Professor
          Have you seen the robot riveter in the USSR / Russia? Me neither.

          Fortunately, I saw everything on the same Tapo and Ch .. In '85. Maybe not as cool as the current ones, but it was a machine that riveted really big designs
    4. studentmati
      studentmati 1 September 2013 00: 12
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      I think that, as usual, manually, I have not yet watched the rivet robots in Russia.


      I would like to know the arguments of each minuser?

      Henry Ford launched his assembly line just 100 years ago (+ -). Today and only with a big stretch, we can say that the time is approaching large-scale, industrial and cheap aircraft construction.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 1 September 2013 14: 30
        +2
        Quote: studentmati
        Today and only with a big stretch, we can say that the time is approaching large-scale, industrial and cheap aircraft construction.

        A conveyor is always an escape for mass, which means an opportunity to save. In aircraft construction there are no secondary systems and the approach is completely different there. I think in this life we ​​won’t wait for a massive, reliable aircraft worth around $ 20 thousand
  4. reddisko
    reddisko 31 August 2013 08: 20
    +8
    Very handsome. Thanks for the photo.
  5. svp67
    svp67 31 August 2013 08: 22
    +6
    And near it is not so flat!
    It's almost like in an old Soviet cartoon - "It's good that you are so flat. You are flying and you cannot be seen ... yes "
  6. Suhov
    Suhov 31 August 2013 08: 31
    11
    Interesting. The headlights on the front desk from the passenger compartment can be adjusted higher or lower?
    Well, that would not dazzle oncoming ones?
    1. avant-garde
      avant-garde 31 August 2013 08: 42
      +2
      Quote: Sukhov
      Interesting. The headlights on the front desk from the passenger compartment can be adjusted higher or lower?
      Well, that would not dazzle oncoming ones?

      it's not lights it's laser guns!) Good little devil, that’s to fly on this, well, as a passenger naturally.
      1. El13
        El13 31 August 2013 15: 14
        +3
        Quote: avant-garde
        it's not lights it's laser guns!)

        No, the laser has a point outlet, and this is engineer Garin’s hyperboloid, read - the principle is described there, with pictures ... and they shoot back when approaching to detach from the pursuers ...
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 31 August 2013 19: 20
          +6
          Quote: El13
          hyperboloid engineer Garin

          Right now !!! Accelerated !!!
          This glass for the mechanics serving, twisted and poured ... laughing
    2. amber-50
      amber-50 1 September 2013 12: 46
      0
      The oncoming person simply does not have time to understand that he was blinded. It will be late. crying
  7. sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 08: 39
    0
    An article for children and dilettantes. The Murzilka magazine unfortunately .. To be so close and not see anything ..
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 31 August 2013 09: 33
      13
      Quote: Sasha
      ..To be so close and see nothing ..

      ... well, what a demand from the lady ... :)
      The main thing was that it was beautiful!
      This is what she knows! Thanks for this!!!
      http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/
      1. sashka
        sashka 31 August 2013 10: 52
        +5
        Quote: Rus2012
        This is what she knows! Thanks for this!!!
        http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/

        Looked. Beautifully. IMPRESSIVE .. I advise others to see and remember. Author. Marina You are lovely ..
    2. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 2 September 2013 16: 17
      0
      Because Murzilka, they’re close and let me go. Probably lamented that there are no lace curtains in the booth on the windows.
  8. Oleg Kharkov
    Oleg Kharkov 31 August 2013 09: 00
    0
    Does the T-50 have tail folding? Or is it initially at that angle?
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 31 August 2013 09: 29
      +2
      Quote: Oleg Kharkov
      T-50 folding tail unit? Or is it initially at that angle?

      by itself, a completely rotary and "oblique" -mode to reduce radar visibility
  9. aszzz888
    aszzz888 31 August 2013 09: 25
    +4
    More and more of these machines in the Air Force! To score and forget these "Raptors" and never let them get around Russia!
    1. sashka
      sashka 31 August 2013 11: 06
      +9
      Quote: aszzz888
      More and more of these machines in the Air Force!

      Forget about the slogans. Go to work.
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 31 August 2013 13: 07
        +5
        1. Regarding your upbringing, it seems that your culture of communication with strangers is not enough (even if on a forum).
        2. I worked (served) in one of the respected structures. Honored Pensioner.
        3. Or maybe you have not yet woken up completely, or a beer with a little morning?
      2. alone
        alone 31 August 2013 16: 43
        +5
        wassat better slogans))) pluses you can earn wassat
  10. Rus2012
    Rus2012 31 August 2013 09: 28
    +2
    Secret weapon PAK FA. Not really. This is an air pressure sensor measuring speed.


    I wonder what order this instance?
    The last and serial LDPEs are hidden ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. During
      During 31 August 2013 10: 35
      +4
      Read carefully "At the end of the press conference against the background of the aircraft, the hangar was closed and the first board of the PAK FA, aka T-50 ..." In addition, "051" is written on board in blue. Have you seen serials already?
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 31 August 2013 16: 55
        0
        Quote: Durant
        Have you seen the serial yet?

        serial will with hidden ...
        1. During
          During 31 August 2013 20: 12
          0
          Well, when they’ll be back then we’ll see, for sure you cannot know
    3. nikolaxp
      nikolaxp 31 August 2013 10: 38
      +4
      Quote: Rus2012
      I wonder what order this instance?


      This is the very first instance, number 051, it can be seen in the photo. If I'm not mistaken, then the LDPE is hidden starting from the third sample.
  11. Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 31 August 2013 09: 37
    0
    Wow handsome. Be sure to put on the desktop to please the eye.
  12. 31231
    31231 31 August 2013 09: 47
    +4
    Thank you, Marina.
  13. Xroft
    Xroft 31 August 2013 09: 48
    +3
    Already wrote in another topic, can I throw off links to the foreign press? it is interesting that the Amers and Germans write about the T-50 (adequate publications)
  14. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 31 August 2013 10: 10
    +1
    Handsome !!! No comments!!!
  15. Alex2830
    Alex2830 31 August 2013 10: 51
    +1
    Quote: serge-68-68
    Without rivets, so far only the Americans manage on their F-22s.

    Google, there is a photo on the internet from assembly shops where planes without rivets of radio-absorbing rivets on both f-22 and f-35. Yes, and you don’t have to go far, on this site there is a photo http://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2013-01/thumbs/1359260229_f-22-maintenance-920-32
    .jpg
  16. sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 11: 04
    +4
    Compared to the American "iron" .. IT'S just different, which does not climb into any gate. Respect for the Designers who did not sleep at night, for a beggarly salary. Creating this Miracle ...
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 31 August 2013 11: 12
      +1
      Are you aware of salaries in Sukhoi? If anything, then Knaz is not a design bureau, but a factory. Although compared to LM salaries in 2-5-6k dollars is a little, I agree.
      1. sashka
        sashka 31 August 2013 11: 48
        +2
        Quote: donavi49
        Although compared to LM, a salary of 2-5-6k dollars is a bit, I agree.

        What do these "numbers" mean? Utilities or the cost "to Shirak" Maybe "Business lunch" ???
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 31 August 2013 13: 26
          +5
          Well, the prices in Moscow are the same, orient yourself. A young engineer / designer in Sukhoi receives from 40-45k rubles + social package + bonuses, but they are not allowed to T-50 wink .

          People with access and working on T-50 receive from 60k rubles (+ bonuses, + secret). Designers, department heads and other high officials, of course, get more.

          Here at KNAZ, salaries are on average 10-12 less rubles sad .
          1. Takashi
            Takashi 31 August 2013 14: 25
            10
            The average salary in Komsomolsk-on-Amur = 26-28 thousand rubles.
            The average salary in the Khabarovsk Territory = 34-38 thousand rubles.
            figures of February 2013 - specify.
            You yourself understand - what is the average salary, how is it considered you understand?

            A young specialist (engineer) who comes (for the first time) to work at KnaAZ receives 6-7 thousand (salary), this is without a 50% bonus from the north (he did not work according to his seniority). Further, various stimulating payments, bonuses and bonuses (not always), + necessarily overtime work. Total on hand: 12-15 thousand rubles.

            A good specialist can receive 30 thousand rubles, but for this you need to live in the workshop. There are posts that receive 40-50 thousand (but this is harmful production and fucking overtime)

            When you write - be at least a little in the subject.
            1. VAF
              VAF 31 August 2013 15: 39
              +4
              Quote: Takashi
              When you write - be at least a little in the subject.


              Only recently I expounded this idea (almost literally "in the commentary in the article about 2017-transfer of the T-50, but they ..." uryapatriots "and" airspees "," feeding "from the site" Made by us ".. like peas against the wall.
              So you only +! drinks
            2. studentmati
              studentmati 1 September 2013 22: 14
              +2
              Quote: Takashi
              The average salary in Komsomolsk-on-Amur = 26-28 thousand rubles.
              The average salary in the Khabarovsk Territory = 34-38 thousand rubles.

              Young specialist 6-7 thousand. Further +++. Total on hand: 12-15 thousand rubles.

              A good specialist can receive 30 thousand rubles, but for this you need to live in the workshop. There are posts that receive 40-50 thousand (but this is harmful production and fucking overtime)


              A low bow and respect to all of them !!! hi As my friend said in 1992 (there was still a time for aircraft building!) "Someone should build aircraft?"
  17. vietnam7
    vietnam7 31 August 2013 11: 38
    0
    A beautiful plane - it flies beautifully. And when will the weapons suspension units appear?
  18. xomaNN
    xomaNN 31 August 2013 11: 39
    +1
    And near it is not scary :))
  19. Brummbar
    Brummbar 31 August 2013 11: 47
    0
    Ah handsome!
  20. sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 11: 54
    +4
    Beautiful and omnipotent .. Let’s come up with a NAME for him .. An airplane cannot live without a name ..
  21. Konsmo
    Konsmo 31 August 2013 12: 06
    +4
    About rivets.
    Zm, an Amer company, has taping technology. Including for aircraft. For civilians there are definitely adhesive tapes. Ours must be tested.
    I used their products of super technology. Of course it’s not cheap. Then, like a tape, another part slammed to the death. Actually there is a diffusion-penetration of materials into each other. Moreover, different, you need aluminum with aluminum, on you, aluminum with steel - another tape , also with composites. Saves a lot of time.
    Somehow I got to the 3rd office in Moscow, I took part in some kind of competition with a fool. Well, they invited winners. And conducted through the laboratories.
    I especially liked the materials for medicine and roadwork.
    Only they are dunduks in a certain sense. They have a very narrow focus.
    They talk about new materials. You ask. but we tried to use these materials in other industries, another laboratory at 3 meters literally. No, we don’t say anything about this.
    They’re very narrow. They don’t care, they don’t pay for it.
    Immediately recalls our classic education.
    1. sashka
      sashka 31 August 2013 12: 53
      +1
      AMG is one thing. D-16 is completely different. The argument is not clear ..
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 31 August 2013 17: 01
      +1
      Quote: Konsmo
      Zm, an Amer company, has taping technologies. Including for planes. For civilians there are definitely adhesive tapes.


      quite mb
      But, fighters have other temperature and load characteristics
  22. Drednout
    Drednout 31 August 2013 12: 08
    0
    Thank you, Marina. Nice photos.
  23. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 31 August 2013 12: 10
    +1
    It’s the habit of amers to come up with names for combat aircraft; as a rule, they give us names to large transporters. And now there would be more of such handsome men in units and more of their modernizations.
    1. uralkos
      uralkos 31 August 2013 12: 13
      0
      Why can't that? Who prohibits a name not to a specific aircraft but to a model can be given. For example "Tarh". I hope people know what that name is.
    2. sashka
      sashka 31 August 2013 13: 24
      +3
      It’s not even understandable. And here amers .. We were the first to give names to airplanes. Well, maybe not the first. The Fritz are always ahead. Poking around too lazy. All the more it doesn't matter. The question is different. Does the aircraft need NAME or not? The T-50 "sounds" stupid and wrong. An airplane just like a person should have a NAME. This is not a whim, this is a law .. As you call it, it will fly.)))
      1. El13
        El13 31 August 2013 15: 26
        0
        I read somewhere, they called him "Razor" ...
      2. Kir
        Kir 31 August 2013 16: 06
        0
        Kind of like "Fox" from F - "Fox" the truth is kind of like for foreigners, but from the point of view of logic it is possible with Owl and some other owl or weasel, but the same Marten or Sable for example, although given the "grip" and endurance so at optimum Wolverine.
        Now, so as not to write separately:
        1 and what about diffusion welding, remember even for space, portable equipment was made just for welding dissimilar and problematic alloys for ordinary welding created. Maybe experts will illuminate this issue?
        2 I would like to know what the name of this glider is, maybe it only seemed to me, but it feels like a triplane "disguised as a normal type of glider
        3 A question about the "technique" with a brace, and what is not pneumatic or electric screwdriver, or the type of physical charging coupled with savings?
      3. Jipo
        Jipo 31 August 2013 19: 26
        0
        Well, the T-34 was also called A-20 at first, sort of, I can make mistakes and dig too lazy, the main thing is that the T-50 is also not the final name, I think.
    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 31 August 2013 17: 04
      0
      Quote: Andrey Peter
      It’s the habit of amers to come up with names for combat aircraft; as a rule, they give us names to large transporters. And now there would be more of such handsome men in units and more of their modernizations.


      most likely t-50 has its own name among its own ... love-slang so to speak :)
  24. left-wing
    left-wing 31 August 2013 12: 34
    0
    Thanks great photos
  25. clidon
    clidon 31 August 2013 12: 51
    0
    Something somehow quietly postponed its adoption for another year. Now this is the year 2017. Well, at least let's see.
  26. Vako
    Vako 31 August 2013 13: 11
    +1
    The modest PAK FA covers his intimate air intakes)))) .......
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 31 August 2013 20: 49
      +1
      Quote: VaKo
      The modest PAK FA covers his intimate air intakes

      Or maybe something else? Also intimate, but of outstanding size ... That which he is actually going to destroy amers.
  27. gunnerminer
    gunnerminer 31 August 2013 13: 17
    0
    Is it worth it to demonstrate a machine that can be piloted by a pilot with the qualification of a tester, requiring several years of refinement of the engine and weapons? Why demonstrate a secret car?
  28. poquello
    poquello 31 August 2013 13: 33
    +1
    Thank. Serious machine, great potential.
  29. Dymkovsky
    Dymkovsky 31 August 2013 14: 03
    +3
    It looks like a guy from my gym, a bold greyhound bar shakes 120 pears, pounds his hands, is not visible, everyone who looks older looks like the last century, takes pride in him and the handsome PAK FA. I’m writing commas from a tablet
  30. Irokez
    Irokez 31 August 2013 14: 09
    +3
    In Russia, the "Falcon" was always held in high esteem, and often it was painted somewhere and was also called kogonit. So simply and succinctly "Falcon", especially since there is already a group "Falcons of Russia", everything fits well.
    And so in general:
    - Falcon
    - hawk
    - Condor
    - eagle
    - Orlan
    - Vulture
    - Vultures
    - Lun
    - Sarych
    - Golden eagle
    - Gyrfalcon
    Choose and taste. In addition, there is a family of Owls and Owls. Even Raven (do not confuse Raven) is also not bad.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 31 August 2013 14: 58
      +3
      Quote: Irokez
      In Russia, the "Falcon" was always held in high esteem, and often it was painted somewhere and was also called kogonit. So simply and succinctly "Falcon", especially since there is already a group "Falcons of Russia", everything fits well.
      And so in general:


      Condor and Vulture are scavengers, "vultures" - therefore these names are closer to the Amers ...
      1. Tamagon
        Tamagon 31 August 2013 16: 39
        0
        Corsair (1) RU Today, 14:58 ↑ New
        Quote: Irokez
        In Russia, the "Falcon" was always held in high esteem, and often it was painted somewhere and was also called kogonit. So simply and succinctly "Falcon", especially since there is already a group "Falcons of Russia", everything fits well.
        And so in general:

        Condor and Vulture are scavengers, "vultures" - therefore these names are closer to the Amers ...
        Reply Quote Report Abuse
        0
        Avatar Corporal

        Raven is a bird of Normans, a carrier of souls from the living world to the world of the dead.

        Among the Slavs, the main symbol of valor, courage and self-sacrifice was the falcon. By the way, now on the emblem of Ukraine a diving falcon.)))
        1. Kir
          Kir 31 August 2013 17: 14
          +1
          By the way, Sip will be one of them, but according to the emblem of Ukraine it’s not theirs but the alteration of the Rurik Sokol.
      2. Alex 241
        Alex 241 1 September 2013 00: 06
        +2
        FALCONS OF RUSSIA
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 1 September 2013 00: 27
          +3
          Hi Sasha! Thanks for the video, you are always on top! drinks

          I am sure that PAK FA will be handsome. good

          But I still don’t understand why the “man” was not baptized yet? Do they continue to call the design "PAK FA", the factory "T-50"? Bring him to church sooner, baptize him and give him a name at last ... After all, his future fate largely depends on this. Moreover, how many signs and superstitions exist in aviation?
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 1 September 2013 00: 33
            +3
            Hi, Sasha, he’s bewildered himself, apparently waiting for either the directions from above, or again effective management, so his laughing
            1. studentmati
              studentmati 1 September 2013 00: 40
              +3
              Quote: Alex 241
              Hi, Sasha, he’s bewildered himself, apparently waiting for either the directions from above, or again effective management, so his


              In fact, complete nonsense! Remember, Sash, even the most hopeless and hopeless got their proper names when they started to "walk".

              Well, if already "effective managers" do not dare to give a Name, then hold a competition by analogy with Avtovaz and give it a name like "Sukhoi Grant" ...

              A nightmare of some kind !!!
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 1 September 2013 00: 47
                +1
                Knowing Poghosyan’s approach, it’s not casual for zhzhzhzhzhzhzhzhzhzh, apparently they will drive a whole line of aircraft.
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 1 September 2013 00: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  Knowing Poghosyan’s approach, it’s not casual for zhzhzhzhzhzhzhzhzhzh, apparently they will drive a whole line of aircraft.


                  The assumption is interesting! But did the T-10 also go along the line? But he had a proper name - Su-27 (in modifications). And why then was baptized Su-47 Golden Eagle, the product is clearly experimental?
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 1 September 2013 00: 56
                    +4
                    Well, there you yourself know the wing of the reverse sweep. As at that time it was possible to solve the strength problems of the wing, with twisting strains .... I bow to these people. Old Soviet school.
                    1. studentmati
                      studentmati 1 September 2013 01: 07
                      +3
                      Quote: Alex 241
                      Old soviet school.


                      That is why all the problems were solved!
                      1. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 1 September 2013 01: 13
                        +2
                        God will give and this beauty will be raised to the wing.
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 1 September 2013 01: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        God will give and this beauty will be raised to the wing.
                        probably better to say - in an independent flight ...
                      3. studentmati
                        studentmati 1 September 2013 01: 20
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        God will give and this beauty will be raised to the wing.


                        Judging by all the observations raised! And it is very pleasing!

                        And, again, I return to the painful one, since the child survived, so give him a proper name!
  31. sashka
    sashka 31 August 2013 17: 18
    +1
    Everything has already happened. According to the "alphabet" of NATO, most likely "owl". Which is also not very bad ..
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 31 August 2013 14: 42
    +3
    back in the last century, the AN-22 was glued, and I know how to cook with argon, that rivets are the best option. the main thing is reliability and the ability to withstand frantic overloads. one, but exorbitantly thin. Have achieved low visibility and found leaner but effective weapons for him? or as always under development ... is it being cooked so far in paper? Thank you for the photos.
  • Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 31 August 2013 16: 16
    0
    He would still see in flight!
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 31 August 2013 16: 31
    -3
    QUOTE: 7. Top-secret air intakes are carefully covered with covers from prying eyes and camera lenses ...

    And carefully closed, because they (air intakes) do not have an S-channel and EVERY mortal can SEE the blades of a low-pressure compressor, not to mention their light on the SCREEN ... negative
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 31 August 2013 17: 09
      -2
      Quote: sergey158-29

      And carefully closed, because they (air intakes) do not have an S-channel and EVERY mortal can SEE the blades of a low-pressure compressor, not to mention their light on the SCREEN ... negative

      really?
      and is the controlled supersonic air intake too dumb?
      1. sergey158-29
        sergey158-29 31 August 2013 20: 01
        +1
        it's YOU tavarisch KLOUN from where such phrases (guided supersonic air intake) are remembered, they read about the MiG-21/25 ...
    2. sergey158-29
      sergey158-29 1 September 2013 17: 50
      +5
      For those who are not in the subject and MINUS!

      I could not immediately attach a PHOTO about the "SECRET" air intake !!

      CLICKABLE !!!
    3. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 2 September 2013 16: 21
      0
      Really selected these shoulder blades?
      1. sergey158-29
        sergey158-29 2 September 2013 18: 13
        0
        You PHOTO click and see for yourself ... hi
        1. lucidlook
          lucidlook 6 September 2013 01: 03
          0
          Not the fact that this is actually a compressor. It can be a compact radar blocker, and behind it - blades of radar absorbing material.

          "Radar blocker
          Case Study: F-18E / F
          This is a kind of nozzle on the engine in front of the compressor, made in the form of curved (usually s-shaped) petals. The principle of absorption of reflection from the compressor blades is the same as in the S-shaped channel. Moreover, at a wavelength significantly smaller than the diameter of the duct, the radar blocker can achieve the same level of absorption of reflection from the compressor blades as the S-shaped channel.

          .

          Replacing the material of the compressor blades with absorbing radio waves.
          Example of use: Tu-160
          An approach that tries to deal with the problem itself where it originates. With the development of modern materials, it is possible to abandon metal structures in the "cold part" of the turbojet. "
  • cahekmosa
    cahekmosa 31 August 2013 16: 53
    0
    I wonder why there are no photos of the Su-47, MiG 1.42, T-50 cabins anywhere. As for the T-50, what are they, then they seem to have a supposed form
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 17: 08
    -12 qualifying.
    Thanks for the pictures and quality.

    ZY Looked "near" the abscess still photo and if frankly unimpressed. So much money for such bullshit, it would be better if more Su-35s were released, it would be much more effective, and it is quite capable of competing with the Raptor Su-35, especially taking into account the possibilities of development and modernization. Again, Poghosyan's campaign "mastered" the grandmother.
  • Irokez
    Irokez 31 August 2013 18: 44
    +5
    Interesting, and what did not impress you? Or you are all-seeing and all-knowing and riveted to determine the performance characteristics of the aircraft, its reliability and quality.
    You listen so it turns out the T-72 is better than the T-90 or S-300 well, super compared to S-400 for example.
    Troll and only.
  • alex86
    alex86 31 August 2013 19: 17
    +4
    Very briefly about the T-50: it was at the MAKS, it flew there (and several times), the impression from a distance - you can’t get close - is flat (relative to the overall size), large - subjectively larger than the Su-35, did not show much maneuverability - but this, I think they simply protect against unforeseen situations, well, the weather was so-so, low cloudiness; loud - like all drying (Rafali, by the way, is much quieter, especially without afterburner); impressive, but not to convulsions - well, the more technology develops, the less from the ground, and for an amateur like me, progress in technology is understandable. In the 11th year he flew only at the level - he took off and sat down, this time clearly more confidently ...
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 19: 23
    +3
    Quote: Irokez
    Troll and only.
    How do you explain the cutest anti-roll. Russia quite rightly does not increase the number of purchases for its aircraft of the same T-90 that you mentioned, modernizing the T-72, since the MO leadership hopes to get a tank in the near future and not only on the basis of Armata. The point of spending money now on the purchase of T-90 Mr. Antitrol? While the Uralvagonzavod now has enough contracts to keep the tank building afloat.
    It makes sense to buy current modifications of the BMP-3, if more modern equipment is already approaching, is it not easier and cheaper, and most importantly rational, to modernize the existing BMP-2? Russia will no longer send armored armada to Europe with its many rivers, so it’s quite possible for the BMP-2 unit to increase protection to the detriment of buoyancy (and there is such an option), and not only upgrade the LMS, etc.
    The Su-35S is a fairly effective aircraft and is capable of fighting any European and any American fighter on an equal footing in the next decade, not to mention the Chinese. They created the PAK FA, worked out the technologies, implement them in the next upgrades of the Su-35 and go further - work ahead of the curve, since the beginning of the development of serial production is the beginning and the "development" of huge funds. All this will take time and resources, and as a result, the Russian aviation industry will again be in the role of catching up with the next generation or new technologies.
    How do you think Su-35 is inferior to Rafal or Eurofighter? Not having a conformal placement of weapons, fashionable stealth outlines ...
    I repeat, my personal opinion, in the implementation of all technologies, engines, weapon systems, etc. etc. that will be developed and run on the T-50 in the following modernizations of the Su-35, Su-30 and Su-34 will come out relatively inexpensively, efficiently and in sufficient quantities than by crumbs and a little bit, but without sense , since it’s not enough, this is according to the scenario proposed now.
    With the money that Poghosyan and the company will now spend on the PAK FA, taking into account its production, it will be possible to update almost the entire fleet, train more than a dozen pilots and pay them decently, create or restore infrastructure (for your information, many airfields and bases in Russia have long been ..renas), and indeed to strengthen the air defense in which there are still holes. But Russia has its own original path, to get involved in the production of this aircraft, which is ALREADY late, which will cost three times higher than the same Su-35, so go comrades, go your own way - paraphrasing "You can't penetrate Russia with your mind ..." And believe there is no one in the Russian Federation, I'm not talking about people, of course.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 September 2013 00: 15
      +8
      Quote: Druid
      But Russia has its own original way, to get involved in the production of this aircraft, which is ALREADY late, which will cost three times the same Su-35,

      Sorry, brother, but apparently you took the nickname Druid correctly. In the navy they say about such people (no offense!) - "wooden to the waist"! (Sorry - from above).
      The T-50 is a new step towards the development of aviation, it is understandable even for me, a sailor. And you are pulling everyone to study the "backs", that is, the past. What's ahead? Or again, as with cybernetics, do you want it to work?
      No, thank you! Personally, I do not want the color of the nation (our flyers), because of the short-sightedness of the leaders, the Ikaramies fall down to the ground just because someone once thought that upgrading a good car is more profitable than a new step in development of the country's AVIATION.
      LACK - MEANS TO LOSE! And the loser - they beat! IMHO.
    2. Su-9
      Su-9 1 September 2013 06: 33
      0
      I would very much like the T-50 to quickly get on the wing and go to the active units.
      But it's time to make a choice!
      Without pretending to be true - I do not understand the aviation development strategy in Russia. It is certainly very expensive to maintain a non-unified park. At the same time, money is spent absentmindedly - on Mig29 / 35, on Su-27cm / 30/34/35. But the emphasis on combat training of units is not as strong as under the Soviet Union, but it is not enough to spend money on raising the prestige of officer service from my point of view. Where is it harder to do - in .. e international relations with the economy somewhere in or in Krasnodar - am I already confused as to call KVVAUL? The same thing.
      So the Druid is partly right.
      Everyone should understand that to give Russia 20 regiments on the T50, colossal funds are needed, only a small part of which consists of the cost of the aircraft. Training technicians and pilots is much more expensive. And fantasies that can be issued simultaneously T50, Su-27 /../ 35, MiGi 29 /../ 35 are absolutely distant from reality.
      But making speculations that the T-50 was late is also premature at least.
      If you do not make an unambiguous strategic decision, stamping on the spot will continue. And moving in any direction (investing in the Su-35 and using the T50 as a demonstrator or investing in the T-50 and sending other types of retirements) would be a better choice than the current situation.
      I understand that the decision is very complicated, affecting a lot of money, people and jobs ....
  • Castor oil
    Castor oil 31 August 2013 21: 52
    +3
    I watched today at the MAX demonstration flights PAK-FA - handsome !! good
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 31 August 2013 22: 37
    +1
    I saw him in flight at MAX-2013. it flies cool, but it seemed that he didn’t fly much steeper than the early mods of his brothers.
    1. Castor oil
      Castor oil 1 September 2013 03: 22
      0
      Quote: bublic82009
      it seemed that he did not fly much cooler than the early mods of his brothers.

      Obviously, it’s just not supposed to show coolness in the test program :) And the developers say that PAK-FA with its promising standard engines (now not native) will still be cooler.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 1 September 2013 03: 42
        +2
        ............................
        1. burhan
          burhan 1 September 2013 16: 20
          0
          The commentator on the show is not a Gubernsky clone? Which year because of this infection I watch sports without sound smile
  • Sergey T.
    Sergey T. 31 August 2013 22: 40
    0
    You do not know - is there a project to create a light fighter for the fifth generation? After all, the T-50 can be attributed to heavy fighters, and, for example, in the 4th generation both the heavy aircraft (Su-27 and light (MiG-29) were presented ...
  • Druid
    Druid 31 August 2013 23: 24
    +1
    Quote: Sergey T.
    Is there a project for creating a fifth-generation light fighter?
    Read here http://airwar.ru/enc/xplane/s54.html there was a project, in principle, you could get a light fighter with at least 4 ++ capabilities, inexpensive, massive and efficient.
  • orek
    orek 31 August 2013 23: 31
    +2
    Quote: AK-47
    Surprised, rivet - the last century, it's time to use stamping or, at worst, spot welding.

    there is such an anecdote: several tests of a new aircraft passed and each time failed. Then the tail will fall off (by welding), then the wings. Half of the plant has already been planted for sabotage. There remains the last test (for the Chief Designer), if again failure - execution. And then the oldest worker tells him - "And you, he says, about ....... those holes at all the interface points. The chief is in shock. But after thinking, I decided" What the hell is the difference ", they are still preparing green stuff on the forehead Followed the advice AND ...... the plane flew off at the highest level. After the awarding ceremony at a plentiful banquet, he calls up his grandfather and says, “How did you figure it out.” He replied to him - do you use toilet paper? Chief - “Yes.” Grandfather - "Then you should know that it NEVER breaks through holes." (Anecdote of the 80s.) But seriously, learn resistance material. Each hole - additional stiffening ribs, and stress relief.
    1. El13
      El13 1 September 2013 11: 50
      0
      Quote: orek
      But seriously, learn sopromat. Each hole - additional stiffening ribs, and stress relief.

      Seriously? fool
  • The comment was deleted.
  • studentmati
    studentmati 31 August 2013 23: 57
    +1
    The reason for this was the signing of an agreement of intent between the RAS and the KLA on the development of new technologies and materials for aviation ...

    Personally, this phrase warps me! Can there really be intentions (want-not want) of government agencies that, by definition, are designed to protect the interests of the State that created them?
  • Irokez
    Irokez 1 September 2013 00: 00
    +4
    Quote: Druid
    But Russia has its own original path, to get involved in the production of this aircraft, which is ALREADY late, which will cost three times higher than the same Su-35, so go comrades, go your own way - paraphrasing "Russia cannot be penetrated with the mind ..." And believe there is no one in the Russian Federation, I'm not talking about people, of course.

    I don’t understand. Do you want to produce a MIG-21 which is even cheaper and just upgrade it with a new electronics and engine? That is, do not go forward and do not get to a new level (step) of development and continue to upgrade the old (past-century).
    All new equipment is naturally more expensive than the old one and mastering it also requires a lot of investments, but this is a new base for future development. Even the new MIG-35 and SU-35 are not so modernization, but as the manufacturers themselves stated - this is a completely new aircraft, only outwardly it looks like the old one with the old aerodynamics scheme. And it’s not a fact that the new is more expensive than the modernized old and it’s sometimes more expedient to build a new one than to modernize the old. In any case, the T-50 will certainly be more expensive than the same SU-35, but also a notch.
    The SU-35 may be no worse in flight performance, but the limit of modernization may soon run out.
    Yes, soon, Armata, God forbid, will be put into production, but like T-72 and T-80 and T-90 he will be in the army and for a very long time we will see such a variety of tanks in the ranks and not the fact that Armata will be the main one if something new starts to develop and implement.
    In your opinion, Zaporozhets need to be endlessly refined to the level of Mercedes or BMW. It’s cheap.
  • So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 1 September 2013 03: 15
    +1
    Of course, I may not be in the subject, but how little information about airplanes is blurted out here, eh? Well, this is because the spies nap, and then here they are directly torn about all sorts of little things-dryuchki. And so Russia’s stand-off test, I praise you for such a little toy)) good Already take envy, in Ukraine all hope is the current in the AN ... winked
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 1 September 2013 03: 23
      +1
      Do not worry, the site administration monitors the "secrecy mode". And those who cooked in this kitchen know perfectly well what can and cannot be said. All articles, photos and video files are taken from open sources.
    2. sashka
      sashka 7 September 2013 23: 50
      0
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      Well, this is because the spies nap, and then here they are directly torn about all sorts of little things-dryuchki.

      Say and do completely different things. The phone that you have in your hands every day can be made simply by looking at it or even redrawing from nature?
  • Grif
    Grif 1 September 2013 06: 42
    +1
    Still, it’s a little ugly in the sense of aesthetics. I think our main 5th generation fighter will be completely different.
    1. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 2 September 2013 10: 03
      0
      The taste and color ... For me, so handsome! hi
  • Grif
    Grif 1 September 2013 06: 46
    +1
    And I also think that ten MiG-21s will make more noise than one MiG-29. Feel free to minus.
  • Axel
    Axel 1 September 2013 07: 15
    +3
    About composites and rivets in aviation
    Композиты
    Keel 60%
    40% elevators
    Glider 40%
    In addition to LDPE, the nose of the aircraft is a solid composite, because there is a radar
    What do composites look like? Like the honeycombs of a bee are covered with thick foil on top (walking on glider only in special shoes can damage the composite coating)
    About rivets: 90% are set manually using a pneumatic riveter (in aviation, even pneumatic drills), countersinks (countersinks under the rivets), tension (a device for rivet tension, that is, two surfaces must be pressed), support (it’s called, then the riveting device is more than a hundred species) and finally the ironer (crushes the rivet)