Military Review

Created experimental chassis with hybrid power plant and electric transmission

189
Recently it became known that the “Military Industrial Company” has created and tested a new armored vehicle. The experimental wheeled chassis, created as part of the Krymsk research project, is significantly different from all the armored vehicles currently used on wheels. The fact is that the experimental machine is equipped with a hybrid power plant and an electric transmission, which, as expected, can give noticeable advantages when used in practice.


Created experimental chassis with hybrid power plant and electric transmission


Information Agency "Rosinformbyuro" quoted the head of the project "Krymsk" V. Rudin. According to the published data, the experimental chassis is built on the basis of the hull and undercarriage of the BTR-90 “Rostok” armored personnel carrier, but it is equipped with the original powerplant and transmission. These units are made according to the “sequential hybrid” scheme. The basis of the experimental machine's power plant is the YMZ-650.10 diesel engine, produced at the Avtodiesel engine plant in Yaroslavl. Engine power for technical reasons is limited to HP 360. The torque of the diesel engine is transmitted to the traction valve inductor generator. The latter has a number of interesting features. In particular, it is equipped with a so-called. field winding, which allows to optimize the coordination of the diesel engine and generator. In addition, the generator can be used as an electric motor to start the diesel. Finally, the power plant includes a power storage unit, which incorporates electrochemical capacitors manufactured by Elton OJSC.

The electrotransmission of the experimental machine is made according to the motor-semi-axis scheme. It includes a distributed control system, made with extensive use of microprocessors, power converters of electric power, as well as eight traction electric motors. LLC NPF “Vector”, LLC NPP “Cycle +” and GOU VPO “MEI (TU)” participated in the development and production of electrical transmission units.

The microprocessor control system of the electric transmission carries out direct torque control and is therefore capable of implementing a number of active safety functions at the software level, such as ABS, ABS, cruise control, redistribution of the torque between the wheels depending on the road conditions, etc. On the chassis "Krymsk" used traction valve inductor motors with excitation winding. Planetary gears are built in engines. Allegedly, such electric motors, in combination with a control system, are capable of displaying characteristics at the level of serial excitation collector motors, considered the most convenient for use as traction motors.

(Illustration from http://btvt.narod.ru)


The power plant and propulsion pilot chassis are as follows. The diesel engine rotates the alternator rotor, which generates alternating current. Next, the alternating current is converted to direct current, after which it is sent to the drive and to the power converters. The latter, as appropriate, change the characteristics of the current and feed it to the traction motors. The drive is used to optimize the operation of electric transmission in transient conditions. So, during acceleration, it should “help” the main diesel generator system and supply additional power to the converters. When braking, in turn, braking energy is converted into electrical energy and accumulates in batteries. Drives, allegedly, can accumulate and instantly give large amounts of electricity. In the future, this will allow new sophisticated electronic systems to be installed on such chassis; weaponrequiring high energy costs.

The applied system “serial hybrid” with a propulsion of the “motor semi-axis” type allowed the experimental chassis to show fairly high performance. The general results of the running tests are described as follows: having about one and a half times less powerful engine in comparison with the BTR-90, the Krymsk chassis showed higher driving characteristics. So, during tests at the airfield in Kubinka, a car weighing about 22 tons accelerated to a speed of 97 kilometers per hour, and it took just 80 seconds to accelerate to 33 km / h. Also, the chassis with a hybrid power plant and electric transmission was able to overcome a two-meter-wide ditch, a half-meter wall and a rise in 30 °. In addition, during the tests, the experimental vehicle towed the BTR-80 armored personnel carrier at a speed of the order of 48 km / h, and also managed to drag such a load to the slope with a slope of 15 °. The Krymsk chassis fuel tanks are no different from the BTR-90 tanks, but at the same time it is able to travel up to 940 kilometers at one gas station, moving at the usual 40 km / h speed for the columns. Turning radius on dry concrete, thanks to the use of the electric transmission control system, was able to bring to the 3,8 meter.

At the moment, the Krymsk chassis is a purely experimental machine built to test a number of new technological solutions. For this reason, you should not hope that in the very near future such equipment will appear in service with our army. However, in the long term, armored vehicles with a hybrid power plant and electric transmission can still reach mass production and practical use. The existing high performance and characteristics achieved during the tests can interest a potential customer on behalf of the military department. However, full-scale development of all necessary technologies will require investing a lot of time and money. In this regard, it is likely that the Krymsk project or new research in this direction in the near future will have only an experimental character.


On the materials of the sites:
http://rosinform.ru/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/


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  1. Horde
    Horde 19 July 2013 08: 08 New
    +4
    the machine is good, lithium batteries would have to be supplied at all, there would be no price. Although, of course, we can calculate the mass-overall dimensions of this power plant. Is there any real gain compared to a traditional diesel-mechanical one?
    1. Refund_SSSR
      Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 08: 12 New
      +5
      Quote: Horde
      . Is there a real gain compared to traditional diesel-mechanical?

      At least almost complete acoustic masking laughing
    2. Varnaga
      Varnaga 19 July 2013 08: 34 New
      +3
      they are there just at the rate of silent movement at low speed over a short period of time.
      The weight is approximately the same compared to the classic layout, due to the exclusion of gearbox, cardan, gearboxes, etc.
    3. Professor
      Professor 19 July 2013 09: 05 New
      20
      Quote: Horde
      Is there a real gain over traditional diesel-mechanical?

      Low fuel consumption, the ability to move on one or two "wheels", thermal and acoustic stealth, smoothness, accelerating h-ki, ecology ...
      In short, now there is such a global trend. And low fuel consumption is also of great importance.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2013 09: 42 New
        +7
        The impossibility of repairing "in the fields", the high cost, the vulnerability of motor wheels: one fragment is enough for a guaranteed incapacitation.

        But the columns must be guarded, for three cars one armor.
        1. mogus
          mogus 19 July 2013 10: 39 New
          17
          the article talks about the motor axis.
          The motor is mounted on the body of the APC, and not in the wheel (motor-wheel). So the output is only covered for the shaft with hinges.
          Repair - unscrew the motor shield, disconnect the cables, unscrew the motor, put another one.
          In these motors there is only a stator winding, the anchor is just a magnet.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2013 10: 56 New
            +1
            You forgot to "remove the wheel"
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 02 New
              +5
              Quote: Spade
              You forgot to "remove the wheel"

              Why remove it if the motor is in the housing?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 19 July 2013 11: 24 New
                0
                How do you get to him? Especially the rear ones - there you have to pull out the engine with the generator.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 37 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Spade
                  How do you get to him? Especially the rear ones - there you have to pull out the engine with the generator.

                  It all depends on the design features of the armored personnel carrier itself. It is very possible that in the area of ​​the diesel generator (which, most likely, was made as a single unit), access to the engines will be outside. Or maybe next to the diesel generator, these engines from the axle shafts will stick up, and changing them will be just like changing the store at the machine.
                  In general, what to guess, we will wait for the implementation of this transmission in a specific military gland, and sooner or later, we will wait for comments from those who will operate it all.
                2. cdrt
                  cdrt 19 July 2013 19: 26 New
                  +1
                  What a repair in the fields. This is R&D. Because of this, there will be no military field at this machine.
                  Well, since the problems are generally not so new, then when (or if) they do OCD, they’ll solve it somehow
            2. mogus
              mogus 19 July 2013 11: 06 New
              +1
              no. I forgot to remove, first of all, the axle shaft ... The wheel is not needed.
          2. dustycat
            dustycat 19 July 2013 17: 22 New
            +2
            Quote: mogus

            In these motors there is only a stator winding, the anchor is just a magnet.


            Even easier.
            An anchor is not a magnet at all, but a set of cunning plates made of electrical steel.
          3. dustycat
            dustycat 19 July 2013 18: 34 New
            0
            Quote: mogus
            the article talks about the motor axis.
            The motor is mounted on the body of the APC, and not in the wheel (motor-wheel). Means

            The picture is generally a classic motor wheel.
            The BTR90 has no axles, it is all on the axles.
            From this point of view, the motor wheel differs from the motor half-shaft in that it is bolted to the suspension - an anchor or a stator.
            In this case, the stator.
            1. mogus
              mogus 20 July 2013 02: 43 New
              0
              according to the picture, yes, in the text the motor axis ... what to rely on? usually in the text, because Pictures are sometimes attached off-topic.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. True
          True 19 July 2013 11: 43 New
          +2
          And in winter, how will the batteries behave? But what if a global conflict using nuclear weapons?
          1. mogus
            mogus 19 July 2013 12: 05 New
            +4
            in winter - the main thing is to start a diesel engine. Heat can be supplied to the “batteries” from the engine; on the go with the load, they themselves will warm up. How will the development of such batteries go further? -Can do for low temperatures ...
            In a nuclear explosion - you need to hold the machine in outstretched arms so that molten metal does not drip onto the boots (which can cause an impulse to a system in which loads are measured in kilowatts ..?)
            1. afire
              afire 19 July 2013 12: 27 New
              +2
              There is a problem with such machines.
              1) Due to the fact that a very large inductive component is generated, an electromagnetic background is formed, which can be detected, for example, from a satellite or UAV.
              2) A lot of claims in the future can arise to the defeat of electrical parts using microwave, laser systems both in the working and non-working position of the machine. You can burn the coils by pointing at her large electromagnetic components.
              I speak not as a critic, but how, well, in general it doesn’t matter, therefore it is necessary to immediately take into account the protection of energy-dependent parts of the car from any external factors when developing such a technique.
              1. mogus
                mogus 19 July 2013 13: 06 New
                +4
                so that microwave penetrates through steel ..? All email initially mounted under armor. There will be radiation - everything will go into heating the body (but the radiation still needs to be organized).
                Stealth - controversial thing, you still can’t hide.
                We will solve future problems as they become available.
                1. afire
                  afire 19 July 2013 14: 55 New
                  0
                  You probably don’t take much into account in the propagation of waves, but since you are directly related to this unit, sooner or later you will come to this, not all possible effects have been experienced wink .
                  Also - do not forget that the crew is in a permanent capsule, in which there is a reflection of everything. How long can they be in it? Will their heads crack in a couple of hours? All these are subjects of research, since otherwise having done everything super-duper, it will be impossible to use this person.
                  1. mogus
                    mogus 19 July 2013 16: 12 New
                    0
                    the box is closed. There, a wave of climb hz how ... Weaknesses can be covered with a grid of "graph paper" - it will not entirely help, but will weaken the impact.
                    An armored personnel carrier is constantly in motion on a theater of operations, if it is “clogged”, then it is possible to slip through the place of impact, and to “cover” the entire area is not realistic, it will not be uniform. In addition, what prevents the microwave indicator, etc., from being installed, by connecting it to an external communication antenna ... so as to determine the effect not by head banging bully
                    1. afire
                      afire 20 July 2013 01: 15 New
                      0
                      As the project comes down, but if you move further, you need to start from the last - from the person, and dance around and for his sake. Create a new and corps and protection and secrecy and and and and and and and and and and and and))
            2. postman
              postman 19 July 2013 14: 46 New
              +2
              Quote: mogus
              To the "batteries" you can bring heat from the engine,

              it will not give anything
              traction batteries, and so having limited durability, poorly tolerate low temperatures characteristic of Russia, temperature differences and often poor culture of operation and maintenance. And their cost is the lion's share of the total cost of the hybrid power plant.
              And the weight is much greater than the weight of the fuel (hydrocarbon), necessary to obtain the same result.
              AND MAIN:
              when implementing the concept of a hybrid vehicle (or electric vehicle), MAXIMUM LIGHTEN THE WEIGHT of the vehicle, MAXIMUMLY EXCLUDE ENERGY CONSUMERS.

              PRESENTING A CARTON BTR, without a control system, a military vehicle, a TOWER ELECTRIC DRIVE, a fan-and-ventilation unit, an air-charging unit, without an air conditioner and an electric (hydraulic booster) ... Brrr.
              who needs it?
              1. mogus
                mogus 19 July 2013 15: 54 New
                0
                while they were writing and wondering about the power source, here, below, they already explained that electrochemical capacitors were installed. With a range of -50 / + 70. Capacitor - fast charge and discharge for overclocking.
                1. postman
                  postman 19 July 2013 17: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: mogus
                  that electrochemical capacitors are installed. With a range of -50 / + 70.

                  1. less resistance of electrode materials to chemical and electrochemical degradation
                  2. Expensive materials: oxides and hydroxides of ruthenium, nanocrystalline oxides and hydroxides of nickel and manganese.
                  cost of 1KJ of stored energy and 1F capacity

                  3. a high probability of electric shock to the crew during accidents and database
                  4. Least charge persistence
                  5. a sharp increase in leakage current with increasing voltage
                  Faced with the fact of a small sales volume, in 1971 SOHIO transferred the license to NEC, which was able to successfully market the product under the name Supercapacitor. In 1978, Panasonic launched the Gold capacitor (Gold Cap), operating on the same principle. These capacitors had a relatively high internal resistance limiting the energy output, so these capacitors were used only as storage batteries for SRAM
                  No, of course there is: Maxwell Technology, Evans Capacitor for 3STHQ3 and 3PTHQ3 Powerful Military Systems и THQA2-HT and HC-HT but they are .... mom do not cry /
                  Well, the parameters
                  3,3-150 mF at a voltage of 125 to 10 V. The range of the operating temperature of the capacitors is -55 ... 125 ° C. WITH
                  68–580 μF, designed for operation at a temperature of 200 ° С (U = 30–75 V).
                  Quote: mogus
                  for overclocking.

                  the second turbine with an electric drive or a mechanical compressor a supercharger or a super flywheel solves cheaper and easier this
                  1. mogus
                    mogus 19 July 2013 18: 20 New
                    +1
                    the cost of a hybrid is one third more expensive. In Novosibirsk, there are purely battery-powered buses - they don’t shock if you don’t get into it :). So far these are prototypes, but the future is theirs and it’s good that they are developing.
                  2. dustycat
                    dustycat 19 July 2013 18: 52 New
                    0
                    Quote: Postman

                    2. Expensive materials: oxides and hydroxides of ruthenium, nanocrystalline oxides and hydroxides of nickel and manganese.


                    Well, besides these, there are all sorts of more environmentally friendly and less expensive materials. DNA for example.
                    Ours fiddled with them before the collapse of the USSR and managed quite well.
                    Now the subject of hydrocarbon and organosilicon ionistors is actively digging mattresses. However, all with Slavic names.
                    1. postman
                      postman 20 July 2013 00: 58 New
                      0
                      Quote: dustycat
                      DNA for example.

                      and what is DNA? did not hear.
                      But the price is still ok.10 $ / kJ!
                      What about the low voltage problem?
                      And the problem of voltage drop from working to zero (linear)
                      And the fact that 1/10 energy can be stored in comparison with the NMG battery?
          2. max702
            max702 19 July 2013 16: 22 New
            0
            If a global conflict with nuclear weapons then viruses and bacteria do not need batteries ....
        4. dustycat
          dustycat 19 July 2013 18: 39 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          vulnerability of motor wheels: one fragment is enough for a guaranteed incapacitation.

          Hmm .. Belazes drive motor wheels and do not break at every kilometer.
          And stones from under the wheels fly out no worse than the same fragments or bullets.
          The motor wheel is a completely enclosed structure made of sufficiently strong and massive material so that the bullets go into rebound.
          And those that will not go away are better used to defeat the power plant and crew.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2013 18: 56 New
            +1
            Quote: dustycat
            Hmm .. Belazes drive motor wheels and do not break at every kilometer.
            And stones from under the wheels fly out no worse than the same fragments or bullets.

            Yah?

            Quote: dustycat
            And those that will not go away are better used to defeat the power plant and crew.

            Have you heard about such a thing as "density of fire"?
        5. cdrt
          cdrt 19 July 2013 19: 24 New
          0
          It does not write motor wheels, but a half-axis motor.
      2. postman
        postman 19 July 2013 14: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        And low fuel consumption is also of great importance.


        Toyota Prius, the most massive of the currently produced cars with a hybrid powerplant, provides a reduction in average fuel consumption by 43% (according to the manufacturer). A car of this class, which is in personal use and has traveled an average of 20 km per year for 000 years, will save 10 liters per 3,44 km or 100 liters over the entire life cycle. In prices at the beginning of 2010, this corresponds to a saving of 160 thousand rubles, which is significantly less than the real increase in the cost of manufacturing, operating and disposing of a hybrid power plant in relation to a traditional ICE with a mechanical transmission.


        With increasing power, the losses in the electric links of the hybrid increase sharply. This leads to the fact that in the most popular modes of dynamic deceleration from high speeds, the efficiency of the hybrid becomes very low. The operating experience of the same Toyota Prius confirms the thesis - the greatest fuel economy is achieved with smooth accelerations and decelerations.
        =====
        Doesn't roll all this for warfare.
        --------------------------------------
        for image and glamor- PULLS
        1. Professor
          Professor 19 July 2013 16: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Postman
          for image and glamor- PULLS

          What is the image and glamor? In our building there is a high-tech company and, as is customary in Israel, engineers receive cars from the company (company car), and the employer also pays for gasoline. So they have percent 80% of cars because they are hybrids less clearly. This is especially noticeable in the urban cycle. The roads are full of private hybrids, despite the fact that their initial cost is more expensive.
          1. postman
            postman 19 July 2013 16: 51 New
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            What is the image and glamor?

            1.We fight for ecology, protect mother Earth
            ZEV-class and PZEV-class, you can go to California
            ALWAYS WORK: environmental damage from hybrids (production of batteries, generators, wiring, infrastructure and other entrails) is much more than that of a standard ICE
            / the same with artificial fur coats. Rave. fox: cheaper, greener and less cruel
            2. Any company glamor: our employees cherish the earth mother, ride hybrids
            3. IT WOULD NOT BE BENEFIT FROM GOVERNMENT: I ​​would see how they drove
            4. Israel and the EEC are not Russia (well, north of the latitude of Rostov, anyway)
            5.No no less harvest train in St. Petersburg(let's say a roundabout or from Vaska to Pulkovo-WINTER), look, eat exactly the same amount, and in all respects it is WORSE.
            And if you take into account the life cycle of the battery and the costs of its production, disposal, EAT MORE
            Quote: Professor
            The roads are full of private hybrids, despite the fact that their initial cost is more expensive.

            Remind about state subsidies?
            I have a German in Germany with solar panels laid the roof: subsidy + for the supply of electricity to the network - they pay
            The heat pump is the same as how much do people pay extra per square meter in Germany today?
            ============================
            Euro6 entered into force (in the EEC), who does not fit into the whole spectrum of automatic telephone exchanges; gr kWh often pays.
            Ferrari Land Rover will also release a hybrid, which would dilute the barrel with a spoon of tar (well, or vice versa)
      3. olegff68
        olegff68 20 July 2013 00: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Professor
        Quote: Horde
        Is there a real gain over traditional diesel-mechanical?

        Low fuel consumption, the ability to move on one or two "wheels", thermal and acoustic stealth, smoothness, accelerating h-ki, ecology ...

        The ability to use any such APC as a mobile power station (for the needs of communications, control, power radars, household ...), while remaining a full-fledged combat unit ...
    4. dustycat
      dustycat 19 July 2013 17: 28 New
      0
      Do you know better lithium-ion elements?
      There are still ionistors.
      The lithiums cannot catch them.
      Frost resistance, the ability to output peakless power without a hesitation, the ability to quickly take charge.
    5. cdrt
      cdrt 19 July 2013 19: 23 New
      0
      Lithium batteries have a fairly limited number of recharge cycles when charging from an incompletely discharged state. Maybe supercapacitors will still be better. Work without an engine is a rather exotic thing, very few people need it and very rarely need it. But recuperation, a sharp increase in power to the wheels, the efficiency of the electric motor, the use of internal combustion engines in optimal mode - this is already a thing. But not the fact that you need a lithium battery. Dear it hurts.
  2. small
    small 19 July 2013 08: 17 New
    +1
    E-mobile for the military. Good car.
    1. BARKAS
      BARKAS 19 July 2013 09: 53 New
      13
      The ё-mobile for the military was like that laughing
      The transmission is electromechanical!
      1. Kuzkin Batyan
        Kuzkin Batyan 19 July 2013 10: 49 New
        +1
        Is this a real technique or banter? How to manage at such a height? The cabin on the other hand is the same, that is, it can go in the ass as well as forward?
        1. BARKAS
          BARKAS 19 July 2013 11: 15 New
          +2
          In the late 90s, the All-Union Scientific Research Diesel Institute (VNITI, Kolomna, Moscow Region) received an order from the Ministry of Defense for the development of a hybrid tractor using an all-terrain chassis combined with the traction characteristics of diesel diesel engines. So such a “small man” was created with the MZKT chassis and the body and filling of the 2T62U main diesel locomotive. The military is still hiding the exact purpose of this machine, but it can presumably serve, for example, as a powerful mobile power plant of several thousand kW.

          http://shusharmor.livejournal.com/197992.html
        2. fedorovith
          fedorovith 19 July 2013 21: 41 New
          0
          Yes there is, I saw in Bronnitsy a couple of years ago.
      2. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 19 July 2013 11: 37 New
        0
        The ё-mobile for the military was like that

        Where is the handle to spin the generator? what
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Starover_Z
          The ё-mobile for the military was like that

          Where is the handle to spin the generator? what

          smile By the way, in the post-war years, a German bus with electric transmission traveled to Sochi. They say that he didn’t have batteries, he started up with a pen. The flywheel was untwisted, then manually connected (with a lever) to the engine, the engine started. Simple was like a hammer. Those who exploited this bus have only positive memories.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2013 11: 49 New
            +2
            The British had a better method. A diesel tractor that started from a blank cartridge. As a firing trigger, a smoldering wick.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 57 New
              +3
              Quote: Spade
              The British had a better method. A diesel tractor that started from a blank cartridge. As a firing trigger, a smoldering wick.

              Some time ago, the Japanese worked on starting engines without a starter (specifically, I read about motonarts). When the "Start" button was pressed, the computer calculated in which of the cylinders the gasoline mixture should be and the position of the piston corresponded to the desired one and gave a spark there. True, (at the time when I read about it), the system of such a launch was not reliable. But the inclusion of reverse speed by stopping and starting the engine with rotation in the opposite direction they managed to implement without problems.
      3. postman
        postman 19 July 2013 14: 48 New
        0
        Quote: BARKAS
        The ё-mobile for the military was like that

        you also need a pantograph on top, or a receiving pipe, for continuous refueling from the fuel line.
        In short, it was created to protect oil and gas pipelines from unauthorized discharge of hydrocarbons ...
  3. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 19 July 2013 08: 19 New
    +4
    Almost 100 km per hour briskly runs! I would like this prototype for fishing and hunting to ride the very thing!
    1. PDM80
      PDM80 19 July 2013 08: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      Almost 100 km per hour briskly runs! I would like this prototype for fishing and hunting to ride the very thing!

      So most likely the car, or something based on it, will find application in the civilian world. good
      And since the car is interesting, but what about repair in the field, here you need to be both a mechanic and an electrician at the same time
      1. mogus
        mogus 19 July 2013 08: 59 New
        +1
        valve induction generator - a motor that is simpler asynchronous. (there is an induction motor in an electric grinder (emery), an electric razor).
      2. Professor
        Professor 19 July 2013 09: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: PDM80
        So most likely the car, or something based on it, will find application in the civilian world.

        It has long been found and only now appear in the army.
        1. afire
          afire 19 July 2013 12: 32 New
          +3
          The neighbor drove this from France, well, she eats 2 liters less, while the maximum speed is lower, the capricious electronics, the more the weight is transported, the faster it dries))
          In short, just to light up in the leaders, in fact the efficiency is small.
          It’s easier to ride on an ordinary aspirated and not to steam.
          And you will provide the minimum expense at! Riding 50-60 km, one person on board, without bags, like vegetables, will disturb everyone on the road, but in the general flow the savings are not big. No, I'm certainly glad that such a technique exists, but this is some kind of mockery)) With normal driving, the benefit is small, taking into account the price of a car.
          1. Professor
            Professor 19 July 2013 15: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: afire
            And you will provide the minimum expense at! Riding 50-60 km, one person on board, without bags, like vegetables, will disturb everyone on the road, but in the general flow the savings are not big. No, I'm certainly glad that such a technique exists, but this is some kind of mockery)) With normal driving, the benefit is small, taking into account the price of a car.

            This is true for any car, but the hybrid eats almost 2 times less (there are such that 70%) less, so consider it profitable or not.
            1. postman
              postman 19 July 2013 17: 58 New
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              however, the hybrid eats almost 2 times less (there are such that 70%)

              provide PBX with ICE energy recuperator (super-flywheel, or pressure accumulator) - the result will be BETTER
              Well, the efficiency cannot be higher if you are in the link
              ICE-wheel drive
              vpenduret generator and ed and battery
              ICE-generator-battery-drive-wheel-generator-battery
              ================
              it doesn't happen
            2. dustycat
              dustycat 19 July 2013 18: 25 New
              0
              Quote: Professor

              This is true for any car, but the hybrid eats almost 2 times less (there are such that 70%) less, so consider it profitable or not.


              Especially when compared with the same diesel.
              In reality - with real needs and manners of use - saving more than 10-20% does not come out.
              You can’t fool physics.
              The only indisputable plus of hybrids is more efficient use of fuel.
          2. postman
            postman 19 July 2013 17: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: afire
            A neighbor drove this from France,

            I sympathize with him ..... when will have to sell, or a complete replacement of acb .....
          3. cdrt
            cdrt 19 July 2013 19: 44 New
            0
            The neighbor drove this from France, well, she eats 2 liters less, while the maximum speed is lower, the capricious electronics, the more the weight is transported, the faster it dries))

            What to say wink - the same can be said about any truly French car wink
        2. postman
          postman 19 July 2013 17: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          It has long been found and only now appear in the army.

          Oh how long ....
          the creator of the first passenger hybrid car is Ferdinand Porsche, which back in 1898 constructed a prototype of a hybrid car, and later built a model on the basis of it Lohner Electric Chaise (Lohner-Porsche Mixte Voiturette), Grand Prix of the 1900 Paris World's Fair

          so who and Fedya understood a lot about cars and military equipment ...
          And what? And nothing has changed.
          PRIM PORSCHE AG will not independently develop a hybrid drive.
          VERY EXPENSIVE and will not pay off.
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2013 09: 44 New
        -4
        There you do not have to be a particularly wise electrician: with the slightest damage, a complete replacement of the assembly or assembly will be necessary. the same motor with a damaged winding can only be rewound at the enterprise.
        1. Professor
          Professor 19 July 2013 09: 49 New
          +7
          Quote: Spade
          There you do not have to be a particularly wise electrician: with the slightest damage, a complete replacement of the assembly or assembly will be necessary. the same motor with a damaged winding can only be rewound at the enterprise.

          I remember we had this debate already. Carry a spare tire or two. Diesel spare able to carry? But how long will a diesel engine pierced by a bullet or a fragment be and how to repair it in the field?

          PS
          I also recall that they could not believe that the hybrid has an average consumption of 3.9l per 100km ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2013 10: 08 New
            0
            Or four. A standard case with a close artillery shell rupture. And you have to carry inside the car. And changing under fire, crawling into some kind of hollow on the swap will not work.

            By expense, I proved that it is more, you could not bring convincing arguments to prove the opposite, preferring the belief that the energy in running batteries in the field comes from the fact that it "Allah gives. I don’t know. It’s taken from somewhere "(from)
            1. Professor
              Professor 19 July 2013 10: 22 New
              +4
              Quote: Spade
              By expense, I proved that it is more, you could not bring convincing arguments to prove the opposite, preferring the belief that the energy in running batteries in the field comes from the fact that it "Allah gives. I don’t know. It’s taken from somewhere "(from)

              No, not proven. You still seem to have little idea of ​​the principle of action of hybrids. Here is the materiel for you. I can also throw 1000 links.
              Prius
              3.9 l / 100km !!!

              Or four. A standard case with a close artillery shell rupture. And you have to carry inside the car. And changing under fire, crawling into some kind of hollow on the swap will not work.

              Will leave for 4's remaining.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 19 July 2013 10: 39 New
                -2
                The "Prius" 4,9 In addition, its weight is 1.5 tons, and the BTR-90-22
                1. Professor
                  Professor 19 July 2013 10: 41 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Spade
                  The "Prius" 4,9 In addition, its weight is 1.5 tons, and the BTR-90-22

                  And although 55 tons, the consumption is half that of cars of the same mass, and this is proven by millions of cars produced. hi
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 19 July 2013 10: 54 New
                    0
                    All one and a half-ton cars guzzle from 10 l / km? Hard to believe.

                    Ford Focus 2,0 TDCi Weight 1532 kg, flow rate 5.9 l / km
                    1. Refund_SSSR
                      Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 12: 38 New
                      +2
                      maybe it's better to try Yandex with google about hybrid cars and electric cars ??
                      Why argue? they tell you correctly.
                      By the way, the Prius consumption is 3,9 and with the same power density with the Ford Focus 2,0 TDCi (10.5 hp)
                      But the difference of 2 liters is a lot (33%)
                      So your example proves the opponent’s words to you
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 July 2013 13: 59 New
                        -3
                        Quote: We refund_SSSR
                        maybe it's better to try Yandex with google about hybrid cars and electric cars ??

                        Or maybe it’s better not to get into an argument without knowing the essence?
                        We are talking about a hybrid Shadow RST-V with a powerful running battery, which allows you to drive 32 km along the intersection without turning on the generator.

                        And after this, conversations begin about its special economy according to the test results, “forgetting” that the car was dragging, in addition to fuel, also a battery weighing several centners, while it was fully charged before the tests.
                        And therefore, when evaluating the flow rate, it should be considered not only that it consumes 2.5 liters of turbodiesel, but also the fuel consumption of the diesel generator, which charged the battery before the test.

                        Better yet, recalculate everything through specific energy intensity. For the coolest lithium-polymer, it is about 800 kJ / kg, and for diesel fuel it is 44.8 MJ / kg, so DT is clearly tactically more advantageous.
                      2. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 14: 44 New
                        +1
                        Hard case...
                        There was an argument that a car of the same mass and with the same relative power is able to have significantly lower fuel consumption.
                        Are you always going to discharge the ABA to zero before starting the journey, and then charge it with a few kilometers? Or maybe it’s worth moving in a “mixed cycle”?
                        Decide, huh? What are you arguing about and what kind of off-road are you talking about if the conversation was about Ford and Prius ...
                        Do you understand yourself?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 July 2013 15: 05 New
                        0
                        No, there was a conversation about a specific Shadow RST-V, to which the Professor is trying to fasten Prius in some way
                      4. Refund_SSSR
                        Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 15: 45 New
                        0
                        Why then give an example of Ford? or when by the ears to ... pulled up then I cut the back? It’s not good to do that, not manly.
                        Let's talk consistently, and not jump from word to word.
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 03 New
                        0
                        Cut the back you. We got into a dispute about which you have no idea and therefore try to dig into the little things that have nothing to do with the dispute itself. With the same success could discuss my nickname.
                    2. Professor
                      Professor 19 July 2013 16: 05 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      No, there was a conversation about a specific Shadow RST-V, to which the Professor is trying to fasten Prius in some way

                      There was talk about hybrids in general, where you argued that the indicated average consumption is false since they start to go on a charged battery. To which I pointed out to you that the flow rate is average and it is not 100 of the first km that is calculated, but in many hundreds or thousands.
                      Simplify the task. Is the average fuel consumption of a hybrid about half the fuel consumption of a conventional car of the same class?
                    3. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 17 New
                      +3
                      There was talk about a specific model of weapons, rather than spherokonin. And you are trying to shove the Prius into the same pile as part of this sphere-of-concept concept.

                      Simplify the task even more. 4.9 x 2 ≤ 5.9?

                      I take the average consumption in the mixed mode for both cars, and not in the "return_ssssr" style, which is trying to compare the average for diesel and the optimal city for "Prius"
                    4. Professor
                      Professor 19 July 2013 22: 34 New
                      +1
                      I asked a simple question, why are you starting to evade?
                      Quote: Professor
                      Is the average fuel consumption of a hybrid about half the fuel consumption of a conventional car of the same class?
            2. postman
              postman 19 July 2013 14: 56 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              but also the fuel consumption of the diesel generator, which charged the battery before the test.

              V.vot about this hybridophiles SILENCE ALL TIME.
              +
              still need to consider costs(let the energy that there is money) for the production, maintenance and disposal of batteries and chargers, be sure to compare with the internal combustion engine (TDU, tank, hydrocarbons) and everything will immediately fall into place
              a hybrid car will be compared with an internal combustion engine (or win a little) only in the mode of frequent or long-term recovery (braking), it’s so simple, provide a vehicle with an internal combustion engine with a flywheel energy storage with mechanical power take-off and a mechanical multi-band continuously variable transmission with double power flow separation (supervariator). A new type of power plant will provide a reduction in fuel consumption in the urban cycle by 59 ... 75%.
              In the city .......
            3. Lopatov
              Lopatov 19 July 2013 15: 10 New
              +1
              And here you can simply compare: Here are two cars, one with a normal diesel engine, the other a hybrid. Here is the weight of what she is forced to carry with her in order to ensure her movement: the first has fuel, the second has fuel, plus a heavy running battery. What is more effective in combat conditions?
              It is impossible to approach military equipment from the position of a civil urban avtomobilchik. And that would have long been small tanks appeared.
            4. Refund_SSSR
              Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 15: 56 New
              0
              It is impossible to approach military equipment from the position of a civil urban avtomobilchik. And that would have long been small tanks appeared.

              Come on! those. trucks and buses hybrids or electric cars - is it fantastic ?! laughing
              Quote from Wikipedia:
              Buses with hybrid (diesel / electricity) power plants are designed and manufactured:
              New Flyer Industries - Canada. It has been producing hybrid buses since 1997.
              DaimlerChrysler - Orion VII Bus. The hybrid circuit was developed in conjunction with BAE Systems;
              General Motors - The GM / Allison hybrid scheme was developed in conjunction with DaimlerChrysler and BMW;
              Optima Bus Corporation (USA) - A hybrid circuit developed jointly by ISE-Siemens;
              Enova (USA);
              First Automotive Works (FAW) (China) - Enova Hybrid Circuit;
              Solaris Bus & Coach (Poland) - Hybrid scheme GM / Allison;
              APTS (Netherlands) - Hybrid scheme GM / Allison (Phileas);
              Optare Group (Great Britain) - Hybrid scheme GM / Allison;
              Nova Bus (Canada) - Hybrid scheme GM / Allison;
              DesignLine International Holdings (New Zealand). Buses are equipped with Capstone MicroTurbine microturbines and batteries;
              Beiqi Foton Bus (China) - Hybrid circuit Eaton Corporation.
              LIAZ (Russia) - LiAZ-5292 bus [8].
              Trolza (Russia) - TrolZa-5250 ecobus with a microturbine (fuel - natural gas, propane, butane) based on the Trolza-5265 trolleybus [9]
              Dongfeng Motor Company (China) - Dongfeng EQ6110 bus [10].
              Volvo - Volvo 7700 Hybrid [11]. By the beginning of 2013, the company had produced about 1600 hybrid buses [12].
              Hyundai Motor Company - Blue City Bus. [13] [14]
              The most common hybrid buses received in North America. From 2004 to June 2008, General Motors delivered 30 hybrid buses to more than 1000 cities in the United States and Canada. By September 2009, Orion Bus Industries had produced 2200 hybrid buses [15]. The first six hybrid buses in London began operating in early 2006. First Automotive Works began production of hybrid buses in the fall of 2005.
              A hybrid scheme for buses is being developed, consisting of hydrogen fuel cells and batteries:
              Japanese companies Toyota and Hino;
              Belgian company Van Hool together with ISE Corp (USA) and UTC Power (USA)

              Think it all? Fuck there!
              Hybrid circuits are often used in mining trucks, and for trucks, companies design and manufacture:
              Belarusian Automobile Plant
              Azure Dynamics (USA)
              Nissan together with ZF Friedrichshafen AG (Germany)
              Alcoa together with Altair Nanotechnologies (USA) develop batteries for hybrid trucks
              Odyne Corporation (USA)
              Peterbilt 386 hybrid (USA) together with Eaton
              Oshkosh Truck Corp
              Volvo Cars and MAC
              Hino Motors (Japan)
              Caterpillar Inc. (USA)

              Well, what small car?
              I say, by running to Yandex and eliminating illiteracy, while pulling up the hardware
            5. Lopatov
              Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 21 New
              0
              And now, please tell us what relation do the samples listed by you have to military equipment?

              You generally read other people's posts, or do not bother with such stupidity?
            6. postman
              postman 19 July 2013 17: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              Well, what small car?

              1.in the USA, the share of hybrid automatic telephone exchanges in the fleet is decreasing from 2,9% to 2,4% (2011) of the country, no one is taking a new prius (Consumer willingness to re-purchase hybrid cars in 2008 was 35,2%, in 2009 year - 39,6%, in 2010 - 38,9%, in 2011 - only 35%.)
              less than 2% of the market.
              2. In Europe (less than 1%) even worse, despite the “Green Tax Reform”
              UK exempted from paying an annual fee of £ 2 thousand
              The IRL for passenger hybrids has halved the annual registration fee, about € 2,5 thousand.
              NOR owners use a one-time preferential rate of transport tax for their purchase - about € 2 thousand.
              SP capital, Madrid, benefits are also one-time - a total of about € 2,5 thousand.
              CH (some cantons) car owners of hybrids do not pay annual transport tax (about € 340)

              In a number of USA states, the size of such a benefit reaches $ 4,7 thousand.
              JP - saving there in the end is about € 1,2 thousand.

              3. Who was the thread when the thread rode the New Flyer Industries bus?

              From 2004 to June 2008, General Motors delivered 30 hybrid buses to more than 1000 cities in the United States and Canada. Orion Bus Industries produced 2009 hybrid buses by September 2200. The first six hybrid buses in London began operating in early 2006. First Automotive Works began production of hybrid buses in the fall of 2005.

              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              Hybrid circuits often use

              there is a transmission, not a Full Hybrid, Plug-in Hybrid or Mild Hybrid !!
              What (um transmission) is relevant for heavy quarries.
              BUT I assure you: 2 x Bell 40D with a MERCEDES diesel, put ANY CAREER on the shoulder blades (Caterpillar, not to mention Belaz), for a year, taking into account salary and purchase costs. UNDER CONDITIONS IF THEY DO NOT CREATE A HIGHWAY AT THE CAREER.
            7. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 19 July 2013 20: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Postman
              BUT I SURE: 2 x Bell 40D with a MERCEDES diesel, put on the shoulder of ANY QUARRY (Caterpillar, .........

              If my memory serves me right, Caterpillar has pure mechanics. And why is it so worse "2 x Bell 40D with a MERCEDES diesel engine" that it should lie on the shoulder blades?
            8. postman
              postman 20 July 2013 00: 43 New
              0
              Quote: Bad_gr
              And why is it so worse "2 x Bell 40D with a MERCEDES diesel engine" that it should lie on the shoulder blades?

              1.If it is interesting I can send data from Kuzbass! Year of operation
              2.Caterpillar 795f ac electromechanical transmission.
              Traction electric motors of the wheels are installed directly in the axles, which ensures their quick dismantling and separation from final drives during maintenance.
              Caterpillar 797B (at equal gp) HAS A CAT WEIGHT 6000KG (almost)
              The same as: LIEBHERR T282B (diesel electric TR (Siemens / Liebherr AC Drive)), TEREX Titan,
              Terex Unit Rig MT 6300AC (25 lighter than CAT 000!)
              3.
              Quote: Bad_gr
              What should lie on the shoulder blades?

              That could "ride" Belaz, KAT, etc. IT IS NECESSARY TO BUILD A ROAD AND TO PROVIDE ANGLES of proper quality.
              Bell40D (articulated 6x6) is NOT NEEDED
              3.1. infrastructure savings
              3.2. They travel almost 2 times faster (in the spring they held drivers, loaded, Result: 1n in a cuvette (Volvo), 1 engine shuttle (Bell): the mountain shutter did not open after the descent, and it fooled)
              3.3 fuel consumption per 1 ton km, Belaz and others like a rest

              A Merc diesel, which is put on the Bell, is one of the best, not a killer car.
              I drove myself to a factory training ground, I didn’t want to get down, and most importantly, it was done so that even blacks can work without fatalities (after the last one, now there’s a button gear selector and an auto brake)
            9. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 20 July 2013 00: 54 New
              0
              Quote: Postman
              1 ....

              Clear.

              Thanks for the information.
      4. dustycat
        dustycat 19 July 2013 19: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: We refund_SSSR

        Come on! those. trucks and buses hybrids or electric cars - is it fantastic ?! laughing

        And now find in the same wikipedia how many citizens of these countries who never traveled on these hybrid buses and did not use the services of hybrids pay extra for each of them from their taxes.
        Fiction is their equal value.

        Hybrids, first of all, is the most successful civilian project of pumping out budget funds.
        All of them are subsidized and subsidies are protected by the laws of advanced promloby.

        All of their production is not self-supporting.

        About their environmental friendliness even funnier.
        Find on Wikipedia how much CO2 is emitted during the production of one lithium battery for the Prius and how much CO2 will produce a car of equal specific power with conventional SU.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 16: 07 New
      0

      "........ The new machine will use lithium batteries and supercapacitors, an intelligent microprocessor control system, .....

      ..... The locomotive hybrid can save up to 30-40% of fuel, in addition, it emits 50-55% less harmful substances into the atmosphere. According to Anton Zubikhin, General Director of the STM Center for Innovative Development, the need for hybrid diesel locomotives by 2015 is 120 units.

      The idea of ​​hybrid traction on the railroad is not new. For example, in the USA such devices appeared on the rails back in 2005 .... "
      http://www.membrana.ru/particle/16348
    3. postman
      postman 19 July 2013 17: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: Bad_gr
      The locomotive hybrid can save up to 30-40% of fuel,

      hybrid for railway
      2400 tons (or more) on a flat road in the mode: acceleration, uniform movement - braking
      the stump is clear that having spent energy to accelerate this weight, it asks to recuperate it back when braking, moreover traction has no (practically) restriction on weight and axle load
  4. Professor
    Professor 19 July 2013 16: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    What is more effective in combat conditions?

    More efficient than systems consuming half as much fuel (twice as large a power reserve), and also capable of dumping on only one working wheel. Plus quietly, without smoking and not shining.
  5. Lopatov
    Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 23 New
    +2
    A more efficient system with greater autonomy, capable of providing more time before refueling.

    Your hybrids do not provide this because of the energy consumption of batteries less than firewood.
  6. Professor
    Professor 19 July 2013 22: 40 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    A more efficient system with greater autonomy, capable of providing more time before refueling.

    Your hybrids do not provide this because of the energy consumption of batteries less than firewood.

    Provide a greater range in spite of firewood and batteries.
    Bravo concept car was introduced in Detroit

    CERV hybrid car

    Shadow - car intelligence, surveillance, target designation (RST-V), United States
    On 95 liters of fuel, Shadow can refuel 758 km at a speed of 50 km per hour without refueling. Using only the power of the batteries, the car is able to overcome 32 km.
  7. Lopatov
    Lopatov 19 July 2013 23: 07 New
    +1
    Dear, well, I do not need this fiction from advertising booklets.
    Let’s do it on fingers: for example, you need to drive N meters, and for this you should spend 100 MJ. What do you need? Correctly, either 2.2 kg of diesel fuel, or a lithium-polymer battery weighing 12.5 kg.

    Now can you tell how less of the stored energy can provide a greater range of power for the same vehicle?
  8. Professor
    Professor 19 July 2013 23: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    Dear, well, I do not need this fiction from advertising booklets.
    Let’s do it on fingers: for example, you need to drive N meters, and for this you should spend 100 MJ. What do you need? Correctly, either 2.2 kg of diesel fuel, or a lithium-polymer battery weighing 12.5 kg.

    Now can you tell how less of the stored energy can provide a greater range of power for the same vehicle?

    I asked you repeatedly, sort out the principle of the hybrid, and here you are comparing me a car with an internal combustion engine and an electric car. negative

    Dear, To conduct an educational program for you due to which energy is saved in the hybrid or will you figure it out yourself? wink
  9. Lopatov
    Lopatov 19 July 2013 23: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    I asked you repeatedly, sort out the principle of the hybrid, and you compare me here with a car with an internal combustion engine and an electric car

    I just don’t understand one thing: where in your calculations is a multi-center running battery? Where do you shove it? The part of the propulsion system? Okay. Compare the weight of diesel and hybrid power. The difference will be the extra fuel that will allow you to drive more.

    Quote: Professor
    Dear, To conduct an educational program for you due to which energy is saved in the hybrid or will you figure it out yourself?

    And what does profitability have to do with this issue? She really can level the difference in the amount of fuel that can take a hybrid and conventional diesel. Yes, the latter will gobble up a little more in l / km, but having much more fuel, it will go further.
  10. Professor
    Professor 20 July 2013 10: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Spade
    I just don’t understand one thing: where in your calculations is a multi-center running battery? Where do you shove it? The part of the propulsion system? Okay. Compare the weight of diesel and hybrid power. The difference will be the extra fuel that will allow you to drive more.

    You do not understand the main thing, the principle of the hybrid car. sad

    Quote: Spade
    And what does profitability have to do with this issue?

    Efficiency means a greater range on the same amount of fuel. How about a Hamer jeep that has traveled 95 kilometers at 758 liters? How many Hamer and the like will go on 95 liters. I understand your theory: instead of the battery, we take extra fuel and drive on. However, this fuel still needs to be found and most importantly, after you have used it, it will not appear again and will not give energy a second time. Batteries are reusable (by the way, unlike firewood).

    Quote: Spade
    Yes, the latter will gobble up a little more in l / km, but having much more fuel, it will go further.

    Let's sum up.
    Pros:
    With an equal amount of fuel, the hybrid will travel much further, acceleration characteristics are generally not comparable, as are acoustic and thermal sensations. Ride. Reliability in a hybrid is better since withdrawal from the action of the engine, one or even several propulsors and batteries will not lead to loss of mobility. Able to share energy. Almost everything that he is capable of has already been squeezed out of the internal combustion engine - electric energy storage devices are only developing and the battery capacity per unit of weight is growing not by the day, but by the hour.
    Cons:
    The hybrid is more complex, initially more expensive and there is a problem with the disposal of used batteries.
    Conclusion:
    In the near future we will see more and more hybrids in the army and on the battlefield.
  11. Lopatov
    Lopatov 20 July 2013 10: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    You do not understand the main thing, the principle of the hybrid car.

    I understand that very well. But you absolutely do not want to understand that running batteries have a weight (rather big) and dimensions (also rather big).

    Quote: Professor
    Efficiency means a greater range on the same amount of fuel.

    But we figured out that the fuel supply is by no means the same. Because there are running batteries that have weight and size.

    Quote: Professor
    In the near future we will see more and more hybrids in the army and on the battlefield.

    Not at all a fact. Here, measures of state support for hybridization will not work.
  12. postman
    postman 19 July 2013 16: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    It is impossible to approach military equipment from the position of a civil urban avtomobilchik. And that would have long been small tanks appeared.

    Absolutely.
    Well, if you make an armored personnel carrier from pressed cardboard and remove all the electrical equipment .... it will probably go (or rather go), but it is NECESSARY.
    IT IS SIMPLY SUFFICIENT TO SEE THE STOCK OF THE STROKE OF THE BATTLE MACHINES (compare with the same truck, equal to the full tonnage), and then try the same on the Hybrid
  13. Refund_SSSR
    Refund_SSSR 19 July 2013 16: 00 New
    -1
    Let's start with the fact that the actual consumption figures for internal combustion engines are much higher than those shown by manufacturers in their prospectuses, and when you talk about a real increase in consumption for hybrids in real operation, for some reason, for convenience, compare with the catalog data of internal combustion engines ... wassat
    Well, as usual, compare warm to soft.
  14. Lopatov
    Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 29 New
    +1
    Let's start by stopping cheating. We will not compare the minimum urban consumption in the Prius and the average diesel consumption.
    We will not declare the "real figures for the consumption of internal combustion engines" from the manufacturer a priori incorrect, and the same data from the manufacturers of hybrids reinforced.

    Enough cheating.
  15. dustycat
    dustycat 19 July 2013 19: 22 New
    0
    Quote: We refund_SSSR

    By the way, the Prius consumption is 3,9 and with the same power density with the Ford Focus 2,0 TDCi (10.5 hp)

    Haroooshy publicity stunt and no more. laughing
    And you, like most, have come across him.

    Compare the consumption of ICE with DIFFERENT power on the shaft.
    But with a very different cost L.S.
    Try to conduct an experiment at startup with a discharged battery or simply driving 200-300 km along the highway without stops and parking.
    Consumption will be exactly the same as a Ford with the same power on the shaft.
    By the way, the Prius field of this stalls only after the battery is half charged. How much fuel will he burn?
  • Professor
    Professor 19 July 2013 16: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    All one and a half-ton cars guzzle from 10 l / km? Hard to believe.

    Ford Focus 2,0 TDCi Weight 1532 kg, flow rate 5.9 l / km

    Whatever one may say, the hybrid eats almost 2 times less (there are such that 70%) less and not only according to the passport. There are already more than a million hybrids on the roads and they continue to be made.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 30 New
      +1
      Strange, until now I have not noticed that you have problems with arithmetic.
    2. Professor
      Professor 19 July 2013 22: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Spade
      Strange, until now I have not noticed that you have problems with arithmetic.

      Huge problems with arithmetic. Toyota Prius - average consumption 3.9 l / 100km, Toyota Prius Plag In- average consumption 2.1 l / 100km, Toyota COROLLA - average consumption 7.1 l / 100km. http://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/features/hatch/performance/fuel-efficiency Almost 2 times. Simplify the task even more. 3.9 x 2 ≤ 7.1? wink
      Let's continue.
      Ricardo's company showed off an economical car
      The analysis showed that, compared to the American HMMWV M1151 military vehicles as standard, FED provided 72's Fuel Economy Improvement Percentage. FEDs were evaluated using a number of realistic work cycles, including highways, off-road driving, and idling.

      In addition to improved fuel economy, field tests demonstrated significantly improved acceleration rates compared to current cars, even with loads of up to almost seven tons.
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2013 22: 47 New
      0
      http://fuelcontrol.info/services/brand/Toyota

      And by the way, why is the hybrid-city cycle again, the most optimal, and not the most economical Corolla-average consumption? And why Corolla, and not a more economical Ford diesel with 5.9 for a mixed cycle. It is not suitable for your arithmetic?
      A diesel Volvo S60, which eats 4.3 liters. in a mixed cycle? Also does not fit, arithmetic does not converge?

      And by the way, the Volkswagen Passat-3l / 100km world record for fuel economy among production cars. Not at the Prius for some reason.
      http://www.dni.ru/auto/2013/6/25/254966.html
  • dustycat
    dustycat 19 July 2013 19: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    And although 55 tons, the consumption is half that of cars of the same mass, and this is proven by millions of cars produced. hi


    Under the condition of half the power of the thermal motor if the battery is charged.
    Real operational gain 10-20%.

    If the battery is frozen ... then the hybrid goes without it. hi

    And its flow rate is consistent with the flow rate with a thermal motor of similar power and with all the delights of insufficient power.

    So in Russia we are waiting for ionistors.
    Maybe we will like hybrids with them in Russia.

    Although the trolleybus throttle response (the trolleybus is also almost a hybrid, only wired) is impressive ... belay
    1. Professor
      Professor 19 July 2013 22: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: dustycat
      Real operational gain 10-20%.

      Do not talk nonsense out loud and at least read about the principle of the hybrid and how savings are achieved. Particularly amused "if the battery is charged."
  • Dart weyder
    Dart weyder 19 July 2013 08: 33 New
    +3
    Yes - the unit is good !!!!!!!!!!!! Given the news about the "battery" riveted to a 3D printer - there will be no problems with the batteries soon, and in size they will decrease a hundredfold.
  • ramsi
    ramsi 19 July 2013 08: 52 New
    +1
    higher driving characteristics ...- and did they even try to knead the mud? And with overcoming fords, what? Judging by the increased height of the tailgate, this whole place is installation and takes
    1. mogus
      mogus 19 July 2013 09: 25 New
      0
      on the first video - it rotates in place.
      - four pairs of eight wheels (second and third pairs) participate in rotation. This half is enough power for a turn. In the mud all the more it will go where necessary and in tightness at low speed.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 19 July 2013 09: 36 New
        +1
        my skepticism is more caused by the electrical insulation of the motor wheels. But in general, if there will be no advantages in terms of placement dimensions, then the whole idea is not to eat an egg
        1. mogus
          mogus 19 July 2013 10: 43 New
          0
          more attentively.
          The article talks about the motor axis. The motor is mounted on the body of the APC and transmits torque to the wheel through the shaft.
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 19 July 2013 19: 53 New
            0
            What they say read.
            And here is a motor wheel drawn.
            With remote gear. Oil-filled.
            In addition, the usual BTR90 suspension is clearly visible in the video.
            So still a motor wheel.
            1. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 19 July 2013 19: 58 New
              0
              Quote: dustycat
              What they say read.
              And here is a motor wheel drawn.
              With remote gear. Oil-filled.
              In addition, the usual BTR90 suspension is clearly visible in the video.
              So still a motor wheel.

              Strange conclusions. Our armored personnel carriers have reducers in their hubs. An electric motor in the housing transfers the force to the regular wheel with a gearbox through the standard half shaft. What's wrong ?
            2. mogus
              mogus 20 July 2013 10: 38 New
              0
              Now I don’t know what to believe. Text or picture ... It happens that the picture with the text are not connected.
              Well, if the motor-wheel is in fact, and the topic has already been taken to another hypostasis ...
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: mogus
        on the first video - it rotates in place.
        - four pairs of eight wheels (second and third pairs) participate in rotation.

        On the BTR-90 on opposite sides the wheels had opposite rotation and it practically turned in place (the turning diameter was equal to the distance between the first and fourth wheels). An armored personnel carrier with electric transmission is trying to do the same thing, only electric engines do not allow this to be done as clear as a mechanic. But for cross-country ability, this characteristic of electric motors is a very big plus (like multi-liter engines, with a small degree of compression).
        1. mogus
          mogus 19 July 2013 11: 48 New
          0
          in the second video, in the end, they measure the nickle. Normally screwed ... Only with the electric drive you will not break the transmission (there is simply nothing to tear :))
          The electric motor for "tight fit" is very good.
    2. mogus
      mogus 19 July 2013 11: 57 New
      0
      ford - an epiploon in an electric motor ...
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 19 July 2013 16: 02 New
        0
        okay, I missed that the half-axis motor, then on the list: since the electric motors are in the case, the space savings are reduced, the generator is quite comparable in size to the box, and the winnings are only on cardans. On operation - all these lotions in the form of electronic traction control are good only at speed and parquet, in difficult road conditions, it’s better to invent nothing “stupidly” locked all-wheel drive yet
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 19 July 2013 16: 13 New
          0
          Quote: ramsi
          On operation - all these lotions in the form of electronic traction control are good only at speed and parquet, in difficult road conditions, it’s better to invent nothing “stupidly” locked all-wheel drive yet

          Electric transmissions are often used on mining trucks, where operating conditions are not sugar.
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 19 July 2013 16: 28 New
            +2
            there, for sure, motor wheels. So still sugar
        2. mogus
          mogus 19 July 2013 16: 41 New
          +1
          electric motors instead of the gearbox in place.
          BTR 90 as is: 510 hp, max.sk 100km / h, 800 km along the highway.
          Hybrid - the same characteristics, but at 360 hp
          Conclusion: the hybrid installation has more efficiency, and much more ...
          In terms of survivability, if an electric motor breaks through, it can simply burn out (one wheel), while with an ordinary gearbox it will stick out oil and jam the entire bridge (two wheels). On the electric motor, in case of a short circuit, you can put a fuse and do not stop repairing - a regular gearbox?
          Traction control - this is not a Land Cruiser, so that extra lotions. Just gas to the floor ...
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 19 July 2013 17: 09 New
            0
            here you linearly think: a hybrid “rakes” only with a torn rhythm of movement, or with less load. The efficiency of the hybrid installation is no more, and can not equal. There is simply a more rational use of medium operating modes (like additional gears in a box).
            The outboard motor has a very complicated control, and it would be okay if it were one - otherwise, five.
            You did not understand about traction control: the principle of transferring torque from side to side will always lose to a blocked drive in difficult road conditions. However, on average it allows you to move faster
            1. mogus
              mogus 19 July 2013 18: 31 New
              0
              of the advantages - virtual hybrid transmissions (rational use of engine power and revolutions, without friction losses in the transmission).
              And what prevents you from locking the axle shafts with an electric drive (just a clutch)?
              1. ramsi
                ramsi 19 July 2013 19: 43 New
                0
                transmission losses - losses during energy conversion ... Locking in an electric drive, of course, can be done (there is even some flexibility). But the additional conversion of mechanical energy into electrical energy and vice versa should, by and large, turn into a minus.
                1. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 19 July 2013 20: 10 New
                  0
                  Quote: ramsi
                  But the additional conversion of mechanical energy into electrical energy and vice versa should, by and large, turn into a minus.

                  And if we take into account that the diesel engine can run at that load and at those speeds when it has the highest efficiency, and the BTR speed is regulated purely by electric motors, then the loss in efficiency will not be significant (and indeed, will there be a loss in this case in efficiency?).
                  1. ramsi
                    ramsi 19 July 2013 20: 46 New
                    0
                    the loss will be stopudovo, the greatest efficiency - at idle, but this is uninteresting, and then it should get worse. Yes, with the help of a competently calculated transmission, in limited modes, you can get closer to one, but no more. And on the circle, all the same, a minus looms. The only difference is whether it is worth it or not (improved average modes, against worse maximum)
                    1. mogus
                      mogus 20 July 2013 02: 32 New
                      0
                      the maximum speed of the BTR 90 is 100 km / h, the hybrid is 97 km / h, at 510 hp and 360 hp Where is the efficiency higher?
                      1. ramsi
                        ramsi 20 July 2013 06: 50 New
                        0
                        I look, yesterday we forgot to mention one more thing: the use of an electric motor without a gearbox (as in our miracle) involves only one method of adjusting the shaft power - by changing the speed; the greater the input power, the greater the number of revolutions and vice versa. But to do so in order to get maximum power from such an engine at the minimum speed, or the speed is higher than the maximum, will not work. Personally, I would not sacrifice this for the sake of dubious savings.
                        As for your example, the BTR 90 may move the tank, but the hybrid is unlikely. The BTR 90 has a good power margin, and the hybrid has a miserable one. In short, our hybrid is not a fighting vehicle, but a laboratory toy
                      2. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 20 July 2013 08: 22 New
                        0
                        Quote: ramsi
                        the greater the input power, the greater the number of revolutions and vice versa.
                        Now regulate the speed by changing the frequency of the input current.
                      3. ramsi
                        ramsi 20 July 2013 08: 32 New
                        0
                        firstly, they give us something about the constant;
                        secondly, if we talk about the variable, then by changing the frequency, the average value of the acting current is changed - i.e. the same connection of input power with revolutions. The gearbox doesn’t replace all this.
                      4. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 20 July 2013 11: 11 New
                        0
                        Quote: ramsi
                        firstly, they give us something about the constant;

                        Yes, indeed, a constant approach to the engine. That's just with the engine device is not so simple:
                        ".... A valve electric motor (VD) is a closed electromechanical system consisting of a synchronous machine with a sinusoidal distribution of the magnetic field in the gap, a rotor position sensor, a coordinate transducer and a power amplifier [1].

                        The mechanical and adjusting characteristics of the valve motor are linear and identical to the mechanical and adjusting characteristics of a DC motor. Like DC motors, valve motors are powered by DC. The VD can be considered as a DC motor, in which the brush-collector assembly is replaced by electronics, which is emphasized by the word "valve", i.e. "driven by power keys" (valves). The phase currents of the valve motor are sinusoidal. As a rule, an autonomous voltage inverter with pulse-width modulation is used as a power amplifier ......
                        .... Generally speaking, a valve motor is not an electric machine in the traditional sense, since its problems affect a number of issues related to the theory of electric drives and automatic control systems: structural organization, the use of sensors and electronic components, as well as software.

                        Valve motors, combining the reliability of AC machines with the good controllability of DC machines, are an alternative to DC motors, ...

                        Advantages:

                        Wide speed range
                        Contactless and lack of nodes requiring frequent maintenance (collector)
                        Possibility of use in explosive and aggressive environments
                        High torque overload capacity
                        High energy performance (efficiency above 90%)
                        Long service life and high reliability due to the absence of sliding electrical contacts ...... "
                      5. ramsi
                        ramsi 20 July 2013 11: 51 New
                        0
                        yes, I also looked at this circuit and didn’t understand at all, except that the processor and powerful valves set the "frequency" of constant pulses according to a complex algorithm.
                        Personally, I would take a classic three-phase motor (for ease of understanding), also reliable, not sparking, without a collector, with a good starting torque - and would regulate the input power with frequency, since we already have an ICE that works with a variable frequency on generator. Since the three phases of the variable, of course, can not be compared with the "three phases of the constant" (I continue to misunderstand), you can increase the number of phases to 6. In my opinion, it would be easier
                2. mogus
                  mogus 20 July 2013 10: 57 New
                  0
                  more power at lower speeds - in the interval between the ICE-Generator, set the gearbox in two gears (direct and up). A lot of space does not take. Direct in severe conditions / load. Boost on track / speed. The tank should be pulled by a "classmate", but it pulls its brother.
                  If according to the specifications with 360 hp does not lag behind 510 hp, what can it (hybrid) with 510 hp
                  In the near future, it’s unlikely to be seen in large numbers, but then, apparently, only this way ...
                3. ramsi
                  ramsi 20 July 2013 11: 38 New
                  0
                  this is how I understand the situation as a whole: first created a good, all-terrain chassis (I don’t know if it’s enough all-terrain or not, I didn’t drive);
                  then faced with limited mobility (gears must be twisted); further increased engine power - increased fuel consumption - attended to saving. There is logic, of course. But it’s only necessary to understand that in this particular case a SUV was made of a “jeep”. I don’t know, it is possible that for the existing needs, the capabilities of an eight-wheeled chassis will be enough, and the cruising speed of 100 km / h with an acceptable fuel consumption is not enough. There is no other savings other than the absence of gears, an electric transmission. The engine does not turn off, as in a conventional hybrid (after all, it’s not a sewing machine, like a Prius). Capacitors, apparently, only help with a sharp increase in load. And, yes - they also reduced engine power. Consumption has been reduced. Patency worsened
  • dustycat
    dustycat 19 July 2013 19: 55 New
    0
    Electric pumps with a wet rotor successfully operate under very harsh conditions, in comparison with which a swamp is a cold sterile reservoir.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 19 July 2013 20: 11 New
      0
      and again, physics is stupid: the conversion of mechanical energy into electrical energy and vice versa ... I vaguely imagine electric motors with a wet rotor, but in my opinion with efficiency it is not very? ..
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 July 2013 20: 48 New
        0
        Quote: ramsi
        and again, stupid physics: the conversion of mechanical energy into electrical energy and vice versa ...
        So after all, a diesel engine has a high efficiency absolutely not always. Ideally, the load should not be higher. not lower, namely, optimal at optimal speeds, which electric transmission allows to do.
        1. ramsi
          ramsi 19 July 2013 20: 56 New
          0
          Yes Yes Yes!!! But there is a well-designed mechanical transmission versus a well-calculated electromechanical. Well, guess from three times what is more effective in THEORY?
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 19 July 2013 21: 07 New
            +1
            Quote: ramsi
            Yes Yes Yes!!! But there is a well-designed mechanical transmission versus a well-calculated electromechanical. Well, guess three times, what is more effective in theory?

            The efficiency is higher than the mechanics. But on multi-wheeled vehicles with a bunch of gearboxes, it’s not so simple. Especially if you take the old APCs, with their two engines and a double set of all this economy ... This is something.
            One diesel generator + engines per wheel is much simpler.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 19 July 2013 21: 55 New
              0
              Well, FIG knows, there I wrote about 5 valve motors - I went wrong, it seems like all 9 (although I still don’t understand: convert the variable to constant, so that it has a three-phase output - but I’m stupid, or rather I don’t understand)
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 19 July 2013 22: 26 New
                +1
                Quote: ramsi
                convert the variable to constant so that it has a three-phase output

                smile No problem.
                For example, a converter from constant to variable. Pay attention to efficiency.
                http://www.merlion.ru/press-center/reviews/2684/
                Why am I doing this? The efficiency of modern electronics for all sorts of conversions, the further the higher.
                1. ramsi
                  ramsi 19 July 2013 23: 11 New
                  0
                  Yes, I mean, the three-phase variable is already little different from the three-phase constant, it would be easier to make 6 phases of the variable and not to steam with the conversion. No, not that, I’m not catching up, how rectangular “pulses” of a constant can add up to zero in three phases (phase overlap zone ... there should be surges)
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 19 July 2013 23: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: ramsi
                    Yes, I mean, the three-phase variable is already little different from the three-phase constant, it would be easier to make 6 phases of the variable and not to steam with the conversion. No, not that, I’m not catching up, how rectangular “pulses” of a constant can add up to zero in three phases (phase overlap zone ... there should be surges)

                    ?????? In truth, I did not understand what was said.
                    1. ramsi
                      ramsi 19 July 2013 23: 51 New
                      0
                      well, do not pay attention, probably drunk. I can imagine 2 phases of constant to zero, I can 4, 6, 8 ... but 3 is above my understanding ...
  • Skiff
    Skiff 19 July 2013 08: 58 New
    +3
    I have no words, I am delighted that not a day is the news, and even what !!!
    All the developer Glory and Honor !!!
  • King
    King 19 July 2013 09: 04 New
    +1
    Recently, more and more new products have been pleasing domestic costructars. an injection of money is not in vain.
  • siberko
    siberko 19 July 2013 09: 07 New
    0
    Yes, the photographs in Kubinka-1 were taken, they’ve been tested on Tank Mount, they’ve lived in this town for 20 years ... they’ve been testing this Rostock for 10 years already, if not more, they’ll roll on the concrete ... The base is one and a half times more than 80, here is a photo
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 09: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: siberko
      this Rostock has been experiencing for 10 years, if not more, they are rolling on the concrete ..

      BTR-90 - has long been tested and even adopted, only with the Serdyukovsky Defense Forces it was practically not purchased for the Army.
      And in the article we are talking about a hybrid chassis, only for testing it they took a box from the BTR-90 (moreover, the first modifications of the Rostock, as can be seen from the water cannons, which in later models were brought out of the case).
  • mogus
    mogus 19 July 2013 09: 09 New
    0
    God forbid that they let him into the series. The same transmission repair will take a couple of hours in the field (replace the cable / electric motor). Or at least developed it on others.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2013 09: 47 New
      +1
      You look at the size of its engine compartment. This is not even a prototype, it is a technology demonstrator. Before the series, even as before Beijing with cancer.
      1. mogus
        mogus 19 July 2013 11: 09 New
        0
        but these are very good technologies. It’s easier to repair - there is no gearbox, gearboxes, instead of this set of gears - a generator for gearbox and an electric motor for gearbox, cables instead of shafts.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 19 July 2013 11: 25 New
          0
          Problems in size and maintainability. How to debug, then you can talk about something. By the way, there is a demonstrator based on the BMP-3
          1. mogus
            mogus 19 July 2013 11: 54 New
            0
            size may be due to the location of the "batteries". We do not know their layout - maybe the batteries are located in the MTO ... In the future, they can be located in the center of the troop compartment under the seats, for example ...
            I agree, we must wait for development
            1. Varnaga
              Varnaga 19 July 2013 18: 54 New
              0
              MNEs and batteries are located in such a way as to ensure an increase in the mine resistance of the BKM.
  • siberko
    siberko 19 July 2013 09: 09 New
    0
    here he is in Kubinka at the museum
  • siberko
    siberko 19 July 2013 09: 11 New
    +1
    and here in the photo
  • Kpox
    Kpox 19 July 2013 09: 17 New
    +2
    I said in a neighboring topic .... here I’ll just ask: "Who read Viva, the Emperor" and "Armagedon" "Zlotnikova? Nothing like? "
    1. Landwarrior
      Landwarrior 19 July 2013 10: 47 New
      +1
      Yes Yes wink Exactly wink If you read what Zlotnikov wrote in the preface ... winked
  • AVV
    AVV 19 July 2013 09: 32 New
    0
    In fact, it would have been nice to test it in a quagmire, mud and snowdrifts, but we probably haven’t managed yet, and a good car will be no worse than its foreign counterparts !!! Maybe after a number of improvements the troops will enter the army ???
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 19 July 2013 09: 35 New
    0
    I am glad that the BTR-90 project was not put under the cloth, as it was with many other prototypes, I hope we will still see it in battle!
  • Asgard
    Asgard 19 July 2013 09: 42 New
    0
    Electric motors have a negative heat dissipation from the windings ...
    The weight of the Btr is decent and there must be a powerful Motor-wheel, in addition, its degree of reliability in difficult operating conditions is low ...
    It should be borne in mind that when such a machine is in the zone of 30 km of a nuclear explosion, it will lose almost 100% of its motion, EMP pulse?
    So YaMZ with mechanics taxis)))))
    Although it is necessary to develop, but it is easier and more reliable to do ...
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 09: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: Asgard
      The weight of the Btr is decent and there must be a powerful Motor-wheel, in addition, its degree of reliability in difficult operating conditions is low.
      This chassis does not have a "motor-wheel", but a "motor-half-axis", which is better in my opinion, since the motors are in the case in more comfortable conditions than in the wheel.
    2. mogus
      mogus 19 July 2013 11: 15 New
      +1
      half shaft motor - stands on the body. Heat can be transferred to the body from the motor.
      1. Varnaga
        Varnaga 19 July 2013 18: 57 New
        +1
        Lord, I read comments and quietly go nuts)) What heat dissipation to the case?)) The heat sink was optimized on the first two prototypes and there are practically no problems with it)) In general, thermal calculation is the first condition when designing electric motors, generators.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. mogus
          mogus 20 July 2013 02: 38 New
          +1
          the problem was, how was it solved?
          in the same computers they put radiators. solve the problem of heat dissipation when it is impossible to increase the area of ​​the engine itself due to ribs (space is limited). how else can this be solved ..?
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 20 July 2013 08: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: mogus
            the problem was, how was it solved?
            in the same computers they put radiators. solve the problem of heat dissipation when it is impossible to increase the area of ​​the engine itself due to ribs (space is limited). how else can this be solved ..?

            Can be liquid cooled. Even the motor wheel came across a liquid-cooled description. But the armored personnel carrier has enough space under the floor to put a more powerful electric engine, which does not overheat even with air cooling.
            1. mogus
              mogus 20 July 2013 11: 09 New
              +1
              predictions are not the most rewarding thing. An interesting car, but with fortune-telling as much in the subject on ... whether. It would be better to see once than to assume so many times
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 19 July 2013 11: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Asgard
      It should be borne in mind that when such a machine is in the zone of 30 km of a nuclear explosion, it will lose almost 100% of its motion, EMP pulse?

      In view of the active development of EMP ammunition, you will not have to wait for a nuclear explosion.
      True, in our time, the equipment on the internal combustion engine is also stuffed with electrics and electronics for the most I do not want.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2013 11: 38 New
        +2
        Military equipment has been protected from EMP from the 60s of the last century.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 19 July 2013 13: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Military equipment has been protected from EMP from the 60s of the last century.

          Shovels, can I have a closer look? Protecting an entire unit or individual nodes?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2013 14: 05 New
            +1
            Easier as a whole. The case is like a Faraday cage, the outputs are filters.
          2. dustycat
            dustycat 19 July 2013 20: 12 New
            +2
            And here there are no options.
            Housing with conductive gaskets in hatches.
            Shielding wiring.
            Filter on introductory devices.
            Electrical isolation of external unshielded circuits from internal protected circuits.

            In any case, even with the defeat of the EMP, to stand for 5-20 seconds in place - until the semiconductors are restored (turned off (most likely the automatics will be de-energized), waited, turned on) - not a big problem.
            Hexagonal CMOS keys remain operational when burned up to 60% of the cells. The cells are connected through metal conductors fading during short circuit in the key and the defective cell further does not interfere with the operation of the entire device.
        2. dustycat
          dustycat 19 July 2013 20: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Military equipment has been protected from EMP from the 60s of the last century.

          And all to no avail.
          The maximum that they could - reduce the recovery time and the likelihood of defeat.
          The Yankees do not want to return to the lamps.
          And the Japanese partially returned. In the output circuits. Got better. But still. Lamp control systems could not be mastered.
    4. Varnaga
      Varnaga 19 July 2013 11: 37 New
      +1
      The issue was resolved with warmth, the windings were burning on the first two prototypes, then the developers decided this issue
  • Russ69
    Russ69 19 July 2013 10: 33 New
    +1
    They made the first sample, exclusively for testing. Now they will bring to mind what will take more than one year. The main thing is that we do not stand still ...
    1. Varnaga
      Varnaga 19 July 2013 11: 37 New
      0
      Your skepticism is not justified, everything is on the ointment
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 19 July 2013 12: 49 New
      0
      I completely agree. In addition, I hope that these works will finally help the unfortunate civilian hybrids. Because Professor (never get on cards with a man named Professor laughing !) Of course he is right, their consumption is low ... if you have the opportunity to change the car every two years. Having lost innocent freshness smile factory settings and bringing microns from the working surfaces, hybrids begin to eat as if it was not a modern car but a grandfather "cleaver". Information from mechanics repairing these wonders of technology in droves. It helps only a complete replacement of both units ... That's what we have to deal with. It can and will come out, although ... experiments started back in World War II. There is, of course, progress ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 19 July 2013 16: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Mikhail3
        if you have the opportunity to change the car every two years?

        Well yes. And who then will buy this voracious two-year hybrid from you? Before you write such nonsense, at least in the forum, you asked users. fool Enlightenment why this hybrid through 2 of the year begins to eat not measured? (hint, the battery warranty is there 8! years)
      2. experienced
        experienced 19 July 2013 16: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Mikhail3
        certainly right, their consumption is low ... if you have the opportunity to change the car every two years. Having lost the innocent freshness of the factory settings and bringing microns from the working surfaces, the hybrids begin to eat as if it was not a modern car but a grandfather "cleaver". Information from mechanics repairing these wonders of technology in droves.

        My brother-in-law bought the Prius with novya, the car has been used in traffic jams for 3 years in Moscow, and therefore the consumption is about 5 liters per 100 km, I think this is normal, because I drive myself and more than 15 liters per 100 fly out into the pipe ... We’ll now sell , it became possible to buy a good car cheaply for cheap and it was a sin not to use it ... For 3 years of operation, my son-in-law had no problems. The familiar Lexus hybrid of 2009 is all normal, although he’s ready to change the batteries already (mentally and financially)
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 19 July 2013 21: 04 New
          0
          It’s just that I have some familiar guys whom these cars drive from Moscow to work very professionally. Sometimes hybrids stand in line in the yard in a row, while nonresident owners do not sit, there are waitresses themselves. But the mechanics themselves do not like these things and call this particular problem of hybrids the main one. As they say for what I bought, for that I sell it. I don’t own the topic (I need to know electrical engineering many times better than mine, the processes are very subtle there), I reason purely on the results.
          In the war they tried ... it didn’t roll. Immediately after the war, buses were launched around Moscow - the consumption was simply unbelievable, I had to unscrew it. All this time, for some 50 years of all, the theme has been stubbornly developed, but there have been no discoveries, just the process of grinding and refinement was going on. What in such cases happens to any equipment, regardless of the specific device?
          This means that I had to polish the equipment to the limit, to perfection, there is no development resource and safety margin. Well, perfection is a weak, fragile thing. Depends on the perfection of all parts and details, just a little bit went wrong - everything spills sharply. An example is push-pull engines. They give good power, they stand on racing engines ... but it is impossible to seriously operate. A little zilch worked, and the whole engine. Now, if some kind of electric motors appeared fundamentally new, or revolutionary batteries ... And so - a dead end to perfection.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 19 July 2013 21: 16 New
            0
            Quote: Mikhail3
            An example is push-pull engines. They give good power, they stand on racing engines ... but it is impossible to seriously operate. A little zilch worked, and the whole engine.


            Among ship engines, two-stroke engines are quite justified. In addition, and their efficiency (ship) for 50% http://www.membrana.ru/particle/2755


            Two-stroke engines also performed well on shunting diesel locomotives (in-line, with two crankshafts).
  • aud13
    aud13 19 July 2013 10: 52 New
    0
    I understand correctly that due to the energy from the batteries, the machine can go a fairly large distance?
    If so, this means that in the event of a breakdown on the march, it will not be necessary to slow down the entire column, but calmly get to the place where the armor can be repaired most safely. A very useful addition to other improvements.
    1. Professor
      Professor 19 July 2013 10: 54 New
      +5
      Quote: aud13
      I understand correctly that due to the energy from the batteries, the machine can go a fairly large distance?
      If so, this means that in the event of a breakdown on the march, it will not be necessary to slow down the entire column, but calmly get to the place where the armor can be repaired most safely. A very useful addition to other improvements.

      ... and you can just throw the power cable from a similar hybrid and "tow" in this way.
      1. viktorR
        viktorR 19 July 2013 14: 30 New
        +3
        Madly plus. All the same, such a system is no less reliable than the usual one.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 11: 16 New
      +4
      Quote: aud13
      I understand correctly that due to the energy from the batteries, the machine can go a fairly large distance?

      A long distance is unlikely. He does not have a battery with batteries, but electrochemical capacitors. They are more advantageous than: during braking, the capacitors are charged, and during acceleration they give energy, help the main engine. In general, it is beneficial with jerky movement and in the mountains, the same. Given that the movement in the column is constant acceleration and deceleration - the capacitors are just right. But a heavy large battery that would provide a 20-ton armored personnel carrier for a long time to move - in my opinion, to nothing.

      By the way, the same applies to all other hybrids: with prolonged uniform movement (for example, a long-distance bus), their use will not bring benefits. But the jerking ride in the city is their element.
      1. Varnaga
        Varnaga 19 July 2013 19: 00 New
        -1
        There are MNEs (for acceleration and regenerative-rheostatic braking) and batteries (for driving at a constant speed) + blocks of brake resistors (for braking at a speed of ~ 25 km / h).
        1. experienced
          experienced 19 July 2013 19: 03 New
          0
          Quote: Varnaga
          there are also MNE

          Ingenium, you’ve got my cashier, like I used to have ... The time to throw stones has passed, I started collecting laughing You were not standing here ...
  • rudolff
    rudolff 19 July 2013 11: 13 New
    +1
    An interesting thought, of course, and possibly promising, but what price will such a toy have ?! And how to behave in a polar environment? Batteries with Santa Claus do not like to be friends.
    1. Varnaga
      Varnaga 19 July 2013 11: 39 New
      -1
      Your information is outdated, the same MNEs operate in the range from -50 to +70.
      The price is about a third more, but the platform will not be used as traditional APCs either
      1. Varnaga
        Varnaga 19 July 2013 19: 09 New
        -1
        BKM LKM will be used where a powerful source of electricity on board is required, i.e. electronic warfare, radar, air defense systems, etc.
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  • The comment was deleted.
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 19 July 2013 13: 11 New
    0
    Thanks to the designers for experimenting! good This topic is promising, difficult, so patience and work are necessary, and they are known ... to help create a new platform. The main thing is for the “she-platform” to dock with BOOMERANG. drinks
  • rudolff
    rudolff 19 July 2013 13: 34 New
    +1
    Varnaga, why won't they be used as traditional APCs? What obstacles or problems do these hybrids have?
    1. Varnaga
      Varnaga 19 July 2013 19: 21 New
      -2
      answered above + high cost (about a third), the redundancy of some solutions (by weight, respectively by security [but not mine), low technical sophistication of many solutions). BUT BKM LKM with ET creates an excellent reserve for development in the future, up to full robotization)
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Gorchilin
    Gorchilin 19 July 2013 13: 42 New
    -1
    Nonsense, too complicated, a lot of details, a large consumption of non-ferrous metals and valuable materials. Of course, overweight, bulky equipment. In the event of a possible flooding (combat vehicles either float or become wet in the rain), there will most likely be high-voltage electrical breakdowns. On a regular car, that is garbage, the AZR shot and business. Here, the voltage is high, it will make a lasting impression on the crew.

    What is intended for the army should be technically simple, maintainable, cheap.

    For a long time they tried to apply electric transmissions on military equipment (starting with ferdinands), each time unsuccessfully. It would seem that the IS-6 suffered from this, but no, not fate. The moron is back again.

    Much more interesting would be the idea of ​​a combination of a marching diesel and an engine for a combat mode (gas turbine or forced gasoline). This idea has already been applied in the Navy and on the BTVT.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2013 14: 09 New
      0
      Quote: Gorchilin
      This idea has already been applied in the Navy and on the BTVT.

      On BTVT, it seems that only the Swedes
      1. Gorchilin
        Gorchilin 19 July 2013 15: 04 New
        +1
        That's right, Strv 103

        This is not to say that the idea was 200% successful, but there is already some precedent
      2. Varnaga
        Varnaga 19 July 2013 19: 04 New
        0
        We also forgot the “Boxer-based NV1 system,” however there is practically no information about it on the Internet. Yes, and other developments are full.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 19 July 2013 19: 20 New
          0
          Serial only one. Everything else is not worth considering.
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 16: 20 New
      0
      Quote: Gorchilin
      Nonsense, too complicated, a lot of details, a large consumption of non-ferrous metals and valuable materials. Of course, overweight, bulky equipment. In the event of a possible flooding (combat vehicles either float or become wet in the rain), there will most likely be high-voltage electrical breakdowns. On a regular car, that is garbage, the AZR shot and business. Here, the voltage is high, it will make a lasting impression on the crew.

      What is intended for the army should be technically simple, maintainable, cheap.


      ".... The company reports that the giant hybrid consumes an average of 20% less fuel, compared to a similar, but purely diesel truck - HEMTT-A2.

      20% savings is not bad. The consumption of the standard version of the eight-wheeled “rogue” from Oshkosh is 59-78 liters per 100 kilometers.

      However, not saving fuel (and money) as such is important for an army vehicle, but increasing the maximum range on one tank. Now it is 773 kilometers against 644 for a diesel analog. For generals who enthusiastically draw arrows on maps, this increase in “reach” means, sometimes, the possibility or impossibility of delivering ammunition and fuel to the front line.

      A HEMTT-A3 uses a 400 horsepower diesel engine, which rotates the generator by 305 kilowatts, as a power plant. A 460-volt electric motor drives through the transmission of the wheel.
      The batteries in the car are unusual - these are supercapacitors, with a total capacity of 1,5 megajoules. Frankly speaking, in comparison with the energy content of diesel fuel - crumbs. You won't get far. But when a diesel engine fails (in combat conditions), even the 150 given by these batteries, or even all 400 meters of course, among stones, sand and craters from shells can mean for the crew the difference between life and death.

      There is another important advantage of the hybrid HEMTT over its ordinary relative. Replacing a diesel engine in the field on a serial car takes up to 24 hours, and on a hybrid one - 20 minutes. Thanks to the modular design and the lack of mechanical connection between the diesel and the wheels ..... " http://www.membrana.ru/particle/3070
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 July 2013 16: 42 New
        0
        I apologize, in the top photo is not a hybrid, but his relative (on the basis of which the hybrid was made)
        The hybrid itself looks like this:
      2. ramsi
        ramsi 19 July 2013 16: 52 New
        0
        here is the usual transmission.
        In addition, if you try to figure it out, then the whole win of hybrid cars is based on the recovery of braking and turning off the engine in traffic jams and when driving with low traction. There two engines are connected in parallel to the transmission, here - capacitors spur the wheelbarrow. If there can be double fuel economy, then here it is completely impossible. Apparently, the win is really obtained, even despite the excessive conversion of mechanical energy into electrical energy. However, if we use something more familiar as energy accumulators: a flywheel, as they once suggested, or compressible air, then the result of a traditional propulsion system could be better
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 19 July 2013 17: 00 New
          0
          Quote: ramsi
          However, if you use something more familiar as energy accumulators: a flywheel, as you once suggested,

          Why "as once suggested"? and they’re using it now.
          In the "formula 1" that barrel, which accumulates energy, and then adds the accumulated engine to acceleration - it has a motor generator with a flywheel.
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 19 July 2013 17: 48 New
            0
            I forgot to throw a stone in the direction of pure hybrids with their "twofold" reduction in fuel consumption.
            Savings will be noticeably less if you do not recharge the batteries from the network.
            Hybrids are initially more expensive.
            Hybrids become much cheaper in the second or third year of operation, because the battery will be replaced.
            So, if you count the total savings per circle ...
            Those who really "save" - ​​do not "go". The effect is akin to a low-powered engine mounted on a variator. By the way, if we could create a variator for good power and an acceptable resource, we would not remember hybrids. Well, except for green
      3. Gorchilin
        Gorchilin 19 July 2013 18: 09 New
        +1
        This is nonsense. Let's throw away the generator, complex distributors, thick wires and heavy batteries - can you imagine how much space and weight you saved? Other things being equal, hybrids just don't have a chance.

        By the way, for reference. The mayor of New York on environmental whim demanded to transfer ALL taxis to hybrids. Translated ALL. And what? The experiment failed miserably! Hybrids were significantly expensive in operation. They did not provide any savings

        Concern over hybrids in practice is the attempts of the fat man from the series "what else to eat to lose weight"
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 19 July 2013 19: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: Gorchilin
          This is nonsense. Let's throw away the generator, complex distributors, thick wires and heavy batteries - can you imagine how much space and weight you saved? Other things being equal, hybrids just don't have a chance.

          Let's first decide which hybrids we are talking about.
          There are hybrids that can drive both ICE and batteries.
          And there are hybrids that are closer to cars with electric transmission (that is, the battery capacity is minimum).
          For heavy military equipment, driving somewhere far away on batteries is hardly necessary, and hardly possible. But in a multi-wheeled vehicle (BTR), an electric transmission can take up much less space than a box with razdatki, gearboxes and differentials. Yes, and build this whole thing can be more rational. I think that the efficiency of electric transmission (without any recuperators) is lower than the efficiency of mechanics, but those who saw how many shafts of boxes with gearboxes are crammed into an APC will understand that electric transmission is much simpler.
          1. ramsi
            ramsi 19 July 2013 19: 49 New
            0
            damn, I don’t even know what to object ... Even with recuperators it should be lower. But there is an ideal - a variator. But there is reality - it is unreal
  • rugor
    rugor 19 July 2013 14: 41 New
    0
    And I would have bought one for myself, to go to nature.
  • common man
    common man 19 July 2013 15: 13 New
    0
    1. Comrades, where did you see in the article that he can ride on batteries? "... the power plant includes an electric energy storage unit, which incorporates electrochemical capacitors, ..." Batteries and capacitors are two different things. And the capacitors have a lot less weight, as far as I know.
    2. The article is not docking. According to the text "motor-axis", and in the figure the motor-wheel.
    3. Not so long ago there was an article that the same is being developed in Ukraine. I spoke out there, but I repeat. Electric transmission makes sense on multi-axle chassis. No need for multiple driveshafts, gearboxes. Weight saving should be substantial. And reliability is higher.
    4. Fears of an EM pulse in nuclear explosions I think are in vain. In any modern technology, there is so much electronics that will fly out in a nuclear explosion that it is too much to fear for traction motors.
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 19 July 2013 15: 55 New
    +1
    The machine pleased good
  • aud13
    aud13 19 July 2013 16: 25 New
    0
    Quote: man in the street
    1. Comrades, where did you see in the article that he can ride on batteries? "... the power plant includes an electric energy storage unit, which incorporates electrochemical capacitors, ..." Batteries and capacitors are two different things. And the capacitors have a lot less weight, as far as I know.


    The 3,37 film says that there is a quiet mode of motion on a molecular drive.
    What kind of drive is this?
    Another question is interesting to me, but the question of installation was not considered on tracked vehicles? If so, what are the benefits, if any?

    Thank you professor, the thought of replenishment from the side seems interesting to me.
    1. Professor
      Professor 19 July 2013 16: 29 New
      0
      Quote: aud13
      Thank you professor, the thought of replenishment from the side seems interesting to me.

      The thought is not mine. In one of my articles I described a hybrid where so much electricity was generated that, if necessary, it fed almost the entire unit to the post.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2013 17: 35 New
        0
        And which one had to be charged before this with the entire base. In addition, requiring storage of constant charge is by no means a small battery. Left the car for three months without this, change the running batteries.
  • NOMADE
    NOMADE 19 July 2013 16: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Postman
    Quote: mogus
    To the "batteries" you can bring heat from the engine,

    it will not give anything
    traction batteries, and so having limited durability, poorly tolerate low temperatures characteristic of Russia, temperature differences and often poor culture of operation and maintenance. And their cost is the lion's share of the total cost of the hybrid power plant.
    And the weight is much greater than the weight of the fuel (hydrocarbon), necessary to obtain the same result.
    AND MAIN:
    when implementing the concept of a hybrid vehicle (or electric vehicle), MAXIMUM LIGHTEN THE WEIGHT of the vehicle, MAXIMUMLY EXCLUDE ENERGY CONSUMERS.

    PRESENTING A CARTON BTR, without a control system, a military vehicle, a TOWER ELECTRIC DRIVE, a fan-and-ventilation unit, an air-charging unit, without an air conditioner and an electric (hydraulic booster) ... Brrr.
    who needs it?


    At the expense of the point that frost does not tolerate ..., I have to upset you :-) thing :-) it reminds me of the epic about the prius. they say she doesn’t eat .., the batteries quickly break down, it does not start in the cold. but in fact: it goes, the batteries tirelessly go more than its internal combustion engine, starts up without problems and drives at minus 40 .... as confirmation - the popularity of this machine in the world and in the air :-) Don pairs for spelling, everything from the tablet it’s not convenient to write (
  • max702
    max702 19 July 2013 17: 03 New
    0
    It will be so. Electronics every year becomes cheaper and cheaper mechanics. with accs the same trend. I would like to note that you need not one large-size diesel generator, but 2-4 small-universal ones, and the reliability of the system is higher and the layout is arbitrary. and maintainability. Yes, and profitability will increase (for which all four will be driven when one pulls well) and if you look at interchangeability, that is, a regular seat and fasteners, the DG on an armored personnel carrier or BMP breaks down and is thrown from the truck or jeep and vice versa. and due to a large series of identical DG units, the cost will drop sharply. For reliability, look at forklifts in warehouses how they are operated there. They drive in the tail and mane almost around the clock and nothing works with normal maintenance, the resource is huge and measured for years. Protection from moisture and dirt is a matter of competent engineering and high-quality manufacturing. And I forgot such a huge plus in my opinion is the use of any unit of such equipment as an autonomous source of electricity, and this is light and heat and food, and much more.
  • lucidlook
    lucidlook 19 July 2013 17: 49 New
    0
    On this platform, you can put different engines as a source of torque. Very different, not only diesel, but also GTE or even such exotic as Stirling engine. The main thing is that the batteries do not die in the cold (pebbles in the garden of new-fangled lithium polymers).
  • artgrad
    artgrad 19 July 2013 18: 15 New
    0
    Yo-mobile in armor, the same principle or similar!
  • family
    family tree 19 July 2013 19: 00 New
    +1
    The other day it became known that the "Military-Industrial Company" created and tested a new armored car
    The other day it became known that the "Military Industrial Company" created a stand for testing, testing and identifying childhood diseases of an electric transmission created on the basis of valve induction electric machines and a capacitor energy storage device. When tested, good results were obtained. All. Already written a lot about the benefits. I give a fly in the ointment. The combat weight of the BTR-90, with hydromechanical transmission, is the same 22t as the Krymsk, which has no weapons. The trouble is electric transmissions, more weight than mechanical and hydromechanical. For armored vehicles, the criterion is one of the most important.
  • ilya63
    ilya63 19 July 2013 19: 24 New
    0
    full of crap.
    with YaMZ with a capacity of 360 mares and a manual transmission, it’s just a song for reliability, about reliability (a diesel engine generally doesn’t need any electrics but it’s true) and I don’t even want to compare the ease of maintenance (who really went through knows how to make field repairs, and even troops almost as well), in addition, the energy generated by a diesel engine does not increase by electric transmission but only converts (purely physics), while the losses will be significantly higher than the traditional transmission, in general there are more minuses than pluses, and most importantly for short short-circuiting (in case of armor breakdown, undermining, etc. delights) people will get an electric shock or are guaranteed to be fried, but armored personnel carrier is still necessary for delivering people to the place of keeping the base and supporting them with fire if necessary, just when professionals (in this case, designers and military ) Replace with all sorts of managers it turns out such crap (however everywhere it is - some tricks)
    1. lucidlook
      lucidlook 19 July 2013 23: 55 New
      0
      There is no doubt that there is a rational grain in your words. But still, you should not think that an electric transmission at such capacities and masses is worse than a mechanical one. A simple example is a gearbox. Its weight is comparable to the weight of the generator. But you also need an on-board generator to power BTR’s electrical circuits. Nevertheless, no one faints from electric shocks in case of breaking through the armor.

      Further, the power loss from friction in the gearbox itself must also be taken into account. Plus a chance of block failure. Also not the strongest link. Doubt it? And here are the reviews about BTR-82:

      Defects discovered during production and operation in 2012 by the nature of occurrence were distributed as follows (in% of the total):
      1. Manufacturing defects 23,7%: defective speedometer, hydraulic lock, axle gearbox, transfer case;
      2. Defects of suppliers of components 35.3%: clutch, PZD, automatic protection, starter, electric motor, power steering;
      3. Improper operation of 40,6%: coolant leak from the cylinder head, wear of the driven discs clutchadjusted gear shift drive, failure of the circuit breaker and starter, shaft failure transfer case destruction of gearboxes.

      Source http://russianarms.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=2536
      My selection.

      In BTR-82a something was corrected, but, alas, not completely. So with mechanics, too, things are not so simple and smooth.

      As you know, in the case of electric motors there is no need for a gearbox. As for the delivery of fighters, we must also consider this: the BTR-82 weighing 15 tons has a range of 500 km, and this model with a mass of 22 tons - 940 km. There is a difference? Yes, I understand that the mass is big, but after all this is just a test of the concept! I am sure there is a huge margin in terms of reducing both mass and dimensions. Let's not rush to conclusions.
      1. ramsi
        ramsi 20 July 2013 08: 57 New
        0
        and there’s nothing to drive with such a complicated transmission at a speed of 100 km / h. I would, in general, constructively limit it to sixty. And he hid the red "fast and the furious" button under the glass with the inscription: break only in emergency cases. Then the gears would break less, and the flow rate would be acceptable.
        As for the consumption of 22 tons per 940 km - I do not know how they calculated, I doubt even that the car has gone through so much. Most likely, measured under ideal conditions (while driving on capacitors) and extrapolated to the entire tank
  • Fofan
    Fofan 19 July 2013 20: 16 New
    0
    Yobtr! cool! I threw the prokhorov idea?
  • Nova
    Nova 19 July 2013 20: 24 New
    0
    Here it is, what you need!
  • Kostyanich
    Kostyanich 19 July 2013 21: 13 New
    0
    Toyota Prius Yesterday
    amers went further and created Tesla (completely on batteries)
    plus free charging along all tracks
    sorry we have nothing like this observed
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 19 July 2013 21: 34 New
    0
    the car is impressive. but ... in sizes larger than the BTR-80, they showed the type on the ground actually moving along concrete slabs. would show how on the ground and dirt creeps. poor clearance does not change
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 July 2013 21: 49 New
      0
      Quote: bublic82009
      Ashina is impressive. but ... larger than BTR-80,

      The electric transmission is on the BTR-90 box, and it is heavier and larger than the BTR-80 initially.
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 19 July 2013 22: 23 New
    0
    Global trends on environmental friendliness and profitability have reached the domestic defense industry.
  • shvindin2012
    shvindin2012 19 July 2013 23: 21 New
    0
    The best option would be to install hydrogen fuel cells with a battery. The advantages of liquid hydrogen fuel over diesel are huge. Firstly, liquid hydrogen in its energy of combustion is 3 times superior to diesel or gasoline. Secondly, the use of fuel cells is characterized by high efficiency up to 80%, because of this low fuel consumption and compactness. A battery in conjunction with a fuel cell will reduce the already low consumption of hydrogen fuel, well, and make it more autonomous in the event of a lack of fuel. Many automotive concerns, such as Mersedes-Bence, Ford, as well as Japanese executives joined the production of such cars in the near future. The only problem is the lack of proper infrastructure and the high cost of both the battery and fuel cells. (
  • alex86
    alex86 20 July 2013 08: 11 New
    0
    Something no one (or saw) commented on the illustration in the article with a “wheel / caterpillar turn” - how do you understand if a caterpillar can be put on wheels in pairs? Back to the wheeled-tracked vehicle (in a good way)? Who can say what?
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 20 July 2013 08: 22 New
      0
      no, it’s how it unfolds in a tank in place: on one side, the wheels spin forward, on the other side back; Well, there is an ordinary steering
      1. alex86
        alex86 20 July 2013 22: 44 New
        -1
        I do not agree, a deviation of 10 degrees of the front two axles is indicated
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 20 July 2013 08: 27 New
      0
      Quote: alex86
      Something no one (or did not see) commented on the illustration in the article "wheel / caterpillar turn"
      In my opinion, this picture, like the motor-wheel, has nothing to do with the article. So, purely for information that designers have such thoughts.
      1. alex86
        alex86 20 July 2013 22: 47 New
        -1
        Well, then the article was almost "about nothing" - such as a protocol of intent ... I would not like it somehow.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 21 July 2013 00: 14 New
          0
          Quote: alex86
          Well, then the article was almost "about nothing" - such as a protocol of intent ... I would not like it somehow.

          Why "about nothing." On tests of promising electric transmission.

          Here is an article about her.
          http://rosinform.ru/2013/07/17/konstruktory-vpk-sozdali-shassi-krymsk-s-gibridno
          y-energoustanovkoy-dlya-perspektivnogo-bronetransportera_01 /
  • Assistant
    Assistant 22 July 2013 03: 48 New
    0
    I didn’t catch where the ICE is located at the hybrid: is it still in the stern? Will its dimensions allow it to be transported to the front of the machine, and to position the doors in the stern?
  • master_rem
    master_rem 22 July 2013 14: 05 New
    0
    The latter has a number of interesting features. In particular, it is equipped with the so-called field winding, which allows to optimize the coordination of the diesel engine and generator.
    What is so special about it? Any generator has an OB
  • svp67
    svp67 22 July 2013 17: 45 New
    0
    At the moment, the Krymsk chassis is a purely experimental machine built to test a number of new technological solutions.

    As a chassis for creating an BRM in the first place, I think it is very promising, quiet and not gluttonous ...
  • I think so
    I think so 22 July 2013 23: 58 New
    +1
    The stupid idea is to move multi-ton military vehicles with an ELECTRIC MOTOR ... Not only is it unreliable, but also the cost of a COPPER wire for wartime is an IMPOSSIBLE task ... Copper even in peacetime is a HUGE deficit and STRATEGIC material ... And spend copper on ELECTRIC MOTOR in an infantry fighting vehicle or a tank ... one couldn’t come up with any more stupidity ... When the war begins (God forbid) the country will not be able to release armored vehicles in large quantities precisely because of the LACK of COPPER ... Such designers that need to be exhaled to show off for I. Eggs ivat, not to mention in laudatory little articles ...
  • master_rem
    master_rem 23 July 2013 13: 01 New
    0
    and why direct current? IGBT transistors have not heard about, no?