Military Review

China introduced competitor Yak-130

152
At the airport in the city of Nanchang, its first flight was made by the serial Chinese UBS - combat training aircraft JL-10 (Jiaolian-10), which previously appeared under the designation L-15. It is worth noting that this aircraft was created on the basis of the earliest drawings of the Russian Yak-130, and also used Ukrainian engines. Hongdu L-15 is a Chinese combat training aircraft created by Hongdu with the advice of the OKB Design Bureau. Yakovlev. The aircraft was designed to replace the outdated predecessor Hongdu JL-8. The new UBS is designed to train Chinese pilots for the latest Chinese Air Force fighters: Su-30, Chengdu J-10, Shenyang J-11 (copy Su-27) and Shenyang J-15 (copy Su-33).


The plane uses a fourfold redundant remote control system. In addition, it is implemented "glass cabin": in the cockpit is 6 multifunctional multi-colored displays (3 for each of the pilots). Also in the cockpit there is a collimator indicator. The dimensions of the car make it possible to place on it a modern radar with AFAR. The design of the L-15 25% was made of carbon composite materials, including flaps and tail. The estimated lifespan of the aircraft should be 10 thousand flight hours or 30 years of use. L-15 received a Ukrainian-made 2 turbojet AI-222-25F engine. The engines are equipped with an afterburner and modern onboard equipment, among other things, there is a digital engine control system.

Photos of the first production aircraft LJ-10 were published on the Chinese site CDJBY. In contrast to the previously demonstrated in public prototypes, the aircraft immediately stands out for its bright yellow color and the presence of the PLA Air Force distinctive sign on the fuselage. Earlier on the pages of the same resource, photographs of this aircraft were published in the air with explanations that the demonstration flight of the aircraft was made before the representatives of the delegation of the alleged African customer. According to some information, two African countries, Nigeria or Zambia, could order a new Chinese combat training aircraft, and a delegation of Chinese aircraft manufacturer Hongdu Aviation Industry Corporation (HAIG) recently visited Zambia.

China introduced competitor Yak-130

Representatives of Pakistan and Venezuela also announced their interest in acquiring UC L-15. Video recordings of the flight of the first serial L-15 combat training aircraft have not yet appeared on the expanses of the worldwide network, but the pilotage of this machine performed by its prototypes has been repeatedly demonstrated to the general public, including at well-known air shows.

According to the Chinese media, in recent years, the People's Republic of China was able to quietly receive large orders from Africa and Latin America for the supply of L-15 supersonic training aircraft. This message was voiced by Yang Liping, who is the chief economist at HAIG. At present, China occupies 75% of the global market for training aircraft, and TCB-type JL-8 is actively sold for export.

Back in 2012, the Chinese manufacturer was planning to supply one of 12’s foreign customers with this type of aircraft, and the importing country (or importers) was never named. The total cost of delivering an X-NUMX L-12 aircraft can be almost 15 million yuan, which can be approximately 960% of the company's total revenue (HAIG's total revenue in 54,79 amounted to 2011 billion yuan). However, the aircraft was not delivered in the 1,825 year.


Yang Liping also told reporters that in the future, revenues from sales of combat training and training aircraft of all types will be 3 / 4 from all company revenues. Hongdu Aviation Industry Corporation intends to further increase the production of L-15 UBS, and also intends to take part in the release of Chinese-made C919 large passenger airliners and to produce some components for Boeing 747-8 aircraft in the framework of international cooperation.

As reported on the defense.pk forum, 29 June 2013, the first L-15 combat training aircraft was delivered to the first foreign customer (assuming that this is Zambia), at the same time, the PLA Air Force L-15 received the official designation JL-10 by replacing its predecessor JL-8. Due to this, the People's Republic of China joined a small “club” of states that produce supersonic combat-training aircraft belonging to a new generation. I am glad that among these countries there is Russia with the Yak-130, which is already in service with the Russian Air Force and the Algerian Air Force. In addition, South Korea - KAI T-50 has its own aircraft of this class. In addition, foreign orders were also received on the Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Italian combat training aircraft, which was built on the basis of the Yak-130. But a number of failures that befell the Italian car, including the plane crash in the 2011 year and in May the 2013 year, cast doubt on the realism of its serial production.

At the same time, the Russian Yak-130 was recently shown at the Le Bourget air show. This plane has already managed to order the Air Force of Belarus, Bangladesh, Vietnam and Syria. At the same time, the South Korean T-50 (not to be confused with the Russian 5 fighter-generation) want to get the Indonesian military, interest in this machine showed even in the United States. What are the prospects for the international arms market waiting for their Chinese counterpart?


In the first place, this aircraft can hardly be called completely Chinese. In its external appearance, if desired, it is possible to consider similarities with the Russian Yak-130, and this similarity is not accidental: according to some information, in the early 2000-s, HAIG cooperated with the Yakovlev Design Bureau, and the Chinese engineers had access to Russian technical documentation. In addition, the LJ-10 aircraft is equipped with turbojet engines manufactured by Motor Sich Plant in Zaporizhia: these are practically the same AI-222-25, which are placed on the Yak-130, except for the fact that for the Russian UBS they are produced in Russia, and for the PLA Motor Sich supplies a version of the engine equipped with an afterburner.

The official flight performance of the LJ-10 training aircraft has not yet been disclosed. But according to The Military Today, it differs from the Yak-130 and T-50 planes with a lower maximum take-off weight (9,5 tons against 10,3 and 12,3 tons, respectively) and, presumably, significantly smaller radius of action (550 km. Against 1000 and 950 km. respectively).

Experts also note the fact that the Korean T-50 and Chinese LJ-10 have a maximum speed of more than Mach 1,4, while the creators of the Yak-130 intentionally refused to use a power plant with afterburners: a Russian aircraft can overcome the speed of sound, but it is not intended for long flights at supersonic speeds. At one time in an interview with the magazine "Aviation and Time "Arkady Gurtovoy, who is the deputy general director of the Yakovlev Design Bureau, noted that" in the process of training new pilots and the combat operation of a light combat training aircraft, supersonic speed plays a very insignificant role ", therefore, to reduce the cost of the aircraft, it was decided to limit its maximum speed to 1050 km / h


According to Arkady Gurtovy, Beijing deliberately “sped up” its LJ-10 at the request of the military, who wanted to see him as a full-fledged combat aircraft, but this approach is difficult to be considered reasonable. In any case, based on the Russian Yak-130, if necessary, you can also create a supersonic aircraft. This was stated not only by the representative of the Yakovlev Design Bureau, but also by the representatives of the Irkut Aircraft Building Corporation.

The prospects of the Chinese aircraft LJ-10 on the international arms market will determine only its final cost and convenience for its main function - the training of new pilots. Hongdu sees not only African states as main potential buyers, but also Pakistan, Venezuela, Egypt, Bolivia, Myanmar, and other countries that are already training their military pilots on Chinese training aircraft of the previous generation - JL-8.

Last year, the Chinese aircraft manufacturers said that they were able to create the cheapest plane in its class - its estimated cost was 10 million dollars. Thus, the JL-10 can be cheaper than the Korean T-50 (costs up to $ 30 million) and the Russian Yak-130 ($ 15 million). But with full confidence to talk about this price will be possible only after the start of deliveries of serial machines.

Information sources:
-http://rus.ruvr.ru/2013_07_02/Kitajskie-voennie-pokazali-pervij-serijnij-jekzempljar-konkurenta-JAk-130-7897/
-http: //www.dogswar.ru/voennaia-aviaciia/samolety/4521-ychebno-boevoi-samol.html
-http: //www.militaryparitet.com/perevodnie/data/ic_perevodnie/2869
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org
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  1. fzr1000
    fzr1000 4 July 2013 09: 14
    +1
    And the Yak 130 is beautiful.
    1. evgenii67
      evgenii67 4 July 2013 09: 24
      13
      Hello everyone!
      Here are the Chinese as a xerochet technique, they have it in nature to nibble, how many people over the course of their history, more than 1,5 billion.
      Quote: fzr1000
      And the Yak 130 is beautiful.
      something tells me if the Chinese is painted in the appropriate color, then you will not distinguish from a Russian plane.
      1. Canep
        Canep 4 July 2013 10: 08
        +9
        I did not find any serious differences, the Chinese seem to have made a budget version of the Yak-130. The Chinese are cheaper because they did not implement part of the Yak-130 functionality. The photo shows that the Yak has additional air intakes in the upper part of the fuselage, for the possibility of its use at unpaved airfields (similar to the Mig-29), the Chinese do not have them. I think there are many simplifications inside.
        1. Roll
          Roll 4 July 2013 10: 27
          12
          wassat And why should the Chinese fly from unpaved airfields, they don’t have much concrete, flying to training flights from the ground is Russian national fun.
          1. neri73-r
            neri73-r 4 July 2013 11: 32
            10
            The ability to take off / land on unpaved airfields is one of the elements of study!
            1. Roll
              Roll 4 July 2013 12: 20
              -12 qualifying.
              wassat Learning what, stupidity? What types of planes are preparing pilots for the Yak 130 on Su 27 or Mig 29 and will these planes take off from the ground? Or sits on the ground after a rain? soil time has passed, more and more soil will not be. and the maize sits even without yak 130.
              1. Canep
                Canep 4 July 2013 13: 02
                +7
                Mig-29 is designed for soil, its front air intakes are closed during takeoff, and air enters through the gills at the top, all transport aircraft are designed for soil. And about the helicopters, I generally keep quiet. In addition, it may happen that the roads will take off from the asphalt, and you will have to steer on the ground.
                1. crazyrom
                  crazyrom 5 July 2013 01: 10
                  0
                  I do not understand, China made a competitor or a copy?
              2. klimpopov
                klimpopov 4 July 2013 13: 32
                15
                When, God forbid, "kerosene" yok, and there is only a field ahead, you will understand why you need to learn to sit on the ground (God forbid, of course) ... As one example. Again, there are hard landings when the "wheels" do not jump out (as my dad says). In this case, the ground is salvation.
                Today I rummage around with him (father) in the album - somewhere there is a photo of Mig 15go (if I find and allows it to be published), who was landing on the belly on the ground, at the alternate airport (Nivenskoye until 1946, Wittenberg, (German Wittenberg) and (German Friederikenthal)), of course, the situation is not regular, but this skill in such cases can cost a living.
                Remember ka Afghanistan and our pilots and IL-76 who had to take off practically from the ground in an unprepared aircraft.
                The Europeans are also driving their new pepelats along the "gravel road". What for?
                The airfield is bombed! The surviving part flew over to the ground / spare / camouflaged.
                Or we don't fight without beautiful stripes? We say "-hey guys, wait, we have no stripes, we'll throw concrete, spill the tar joints and continue while you have a bite of hamburgers and cola ..."
                Yet?
                Vobschem nonsense ...
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 4 July 2013 14: 00
                  +1
                  we’ll throw the concrete, we’ll spill the joints and continue

                  Then the Israeli comrades repeatedly boasted that the concrete was being repaired in half an hour by some super-duper composition. It's true?
                  1. klimpopov
                    klimpopov 4 July 2013 14: 18
                    +2
                    Yes, now it’s not tar and the comrades are always stinking and after which they didn’t go into the dining room.
                    But again, if this composition is not at hand? And take off - do you have to land?
                    Vobschem accustomed to fighting for the moment ...
                    Although more relevant for us ...
                    The British Air Force has adopted two main methods for restoring the runway. The first is that the coating swollen along the edges of the funnel, its residues and loosened soil from the funnel itself are removed. The recess is covered with large gravel (broken stone) of size 25 - 30 mm, and a finer one (up to 10 mm) is poured on top for leveling. Then the [74] ADR metal floor (Airfield Damage Repair, see figure) is laid, which is attached to the concrete intact coating.

                    When restoring the runway according to the second method, the swollen edges of the funnel are cut off, and the bulldozer falls into the recess with them, as well as other fragments. Large gravel is also added. Everything is compacted with 5-t cargo dropped by a crane (excavator crane), and then, as in the first case, ADR flooring is laid. This method is faster and less time-consuming, but British experts still prefer the first one, since this results in minimal soil settlement from the load of a moving aircraft.

                    http://zw-observer.narod.ru/zwo/1988_5/repair_Britain.html
                    Well, sobsno
                    A series of materials "Fast Concrete" is intended for urgent repairs on concrete, reinforced concrete and other bases.

                    These materials are especially in demand for repair work of runways, freezers, in industries where a long shutdown of the technological process is impossible.

                    "Fast concrete" is able to withstand high mechanical loads:
                    - compressive strength: up to 70MPa / cm2
                    - bending strength: up to 35MPa / cm2
                    - adhesion to concrete: up to 2,8MPa / cm2
                    - to steel: up to 3,5MPa / cm2

                    The materials of this series are reinforced with polymer binders, high-quality fillers and special additives, as a result of which they are capable of a quick set of desired mechanical properties.

                    If necessary, the object can be put into operation after 20-40 min. after completion of repair work.

                    Using the materials “Quick Concrete” it is possible to repair objects operating at temperatures from -700 C to + 10000 C.

                    Due to the heating of the repair composition due to an exothermic reaction, it is possible to repair surfaces with temperatures up to -200 C and surfaces with high humidity.

                    These materials are highly resistant to acids, alkalis, oils and various types of fuel, have a minimum shrinkage of 0-1% of the volume.
                  2. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 4 July 2013 14: 52
                    +1
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    Then the Israeli comrades repeatedly boasted that the concrete was being repaired in half an hour by some super-duper composition. It's true?

                    If the concrete was spoiled by a rocket made from a water pipe, then this is possible. But there are special ammunition (and we have it, and I think the West has it too) that not only spoil the coating but also mine it. After the explosion of such ammunition over the strip, try to find a mine that has pierced the reinforced concrete coating and sits between the reinforcement ...
                    1. klimpopov
                      klimpopov 4 July 2013 15: 05
                      +1
                      Good point! Right! Well, I’m talking with the Papuans used to deal.
                    2. VAF
                      VAF 4 July 2013 15: 45
                      +3
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      But there are special ammunition (and we have it, and I think the West has it too) that not only spoil the coating but also mine it.


                      Ordinary "cast iron" type FAB caliber from 250, but mostly 500ki (less recocheting), with fuse AVZPU-72 wink (i.e. slowdown time from 0 sec to 72 hours).
                      But to find it elementary, because the entrance funnel is quite large lol ... but get it, that is. "demining" is UNREAL!
                      The only way is undermining! fellow
                      As required .. prove! +! drinks
                      1. Avenger711
                        Avenger711 4 July 2013 18: 07
                        -3
                        Then, in the crater strip, and where does the landing on the ground somehow unclear.
                      2. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 12
                        +2
                        And despite the fact that after the concrete runway has been laid apart, there remains a spare unpaved one, which even after a raid is much quicker and easier to normalize ... Something like this, Seryozha, is I wrong? For this, I even called my father and listened to the lecture and remembered the service.
                      3. VAF
                        VAF 4 July 2013 18: 24
                        +4
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        Something like that, Seryozha, am I wrong?


                        Absolutely right, +! drinks (Although for the "lord of black humor" and for the "Petrosyan medal" it was worth giving you in the ... neck angry ) wink
                        But again you confuse (I already wrote) that landing on unpaved runway and landing on soil it's completely different things
                      4. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 35
                        +3
                        That story didn’t concern you with Petrosyan, but a comrade who unsuccessfully joked about you. Experienced confirm! But if offended, a lot of public apologies! Regarding the concepts of apologizing, I always thought that the unpaved strip is not a field by itself. The field is in Africa and the field and landing on it naturally is tin, probably a catapult is better
                      5. experienced
                        experienced 4 July 2013 18: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: klimpopov
                        That story didn’t concern you with Petrosyan, but a comrade who unsuccessfully joked about you.

                        It really is. hi Seryog, and you somehow "attached" me, when I was pinned over "Mstyuga", and for some reason you took it personally and began to "wave a sword" and incriminate me in ignorance of English wassat
                        So, in vain are you on Klim so, however, that he, that you guys are adequate drinks
                      6. VAF
                        VAF 4 July 2013 19: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: seasoned
                        Seryog, and you somehow "attached" me when I was pinned over "Mstyuga"


                        So I love you ... loving. So say drinks

                        Here you are .... instead of your motorcycle .... Taxi in checkered! fellow you will always be the first and everything ...... will be only yours !!! fellow

                      7. Alan
                        Alan 4 July 2013 19: 46
                        +2
                        Guys can beat me !! And even in the stomach ... but it was necessary to screw up the plane like that .... VAF I welcome you glad that you are here again.
                      8. klimpopov
                        klimpopov 4 July 2013 23: 15
                        +1
                        This abstractionionists painted! drinks laughing There’s nothing to beat request
                2. VAF
                  VAF 4 July 2013 18: 58
                  +2
                  Quote: klimpopov
                  I just always thought that a dirt strip is not a field by itself. The field is in Africa and the field and landing on it naturally is tin, probably a catapult is better


                  So you yourself wrote above. what .. "what if the kerosene runs out, then only on the ground"? wink
                  If you have an engine at a distance of up to 1 km (that is, above the short-range drive), then you have a small chance to "settle down" on the runway if you went at high speeds and you manage to keep the plane at an angle.
                  If further, then just .. "take a parachute" and walk further!
                  In this case, there can be no talk of any turn to the unpaved runway. you understand, the motor "ran out", the ESDU also ran out, only on boosters!

                  Well, if the engine got up at a height, but the car obeys the control and there is a speed reserve and there are fields in front of you (in front) ... why not "huddle" (just that there would be no beams and ravines) well, of course, during the day and in the PMU at visibility a million in a million! drinks
                3. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 4 July 2013 19: 06
                  +2
                  Well, of course I got confused with concepts, but you understood me. And as always, everything is on the shelves. For that I respect !!!
                4. experienced
                  experienced 4 July 2013 19: 09
                  +3
                  Quote: klimpopov
                  And as always, everything is on the shelves. For that I respect !!!

                  Here, here I am about the same thing, he knows how to explain complex things so much that there are simply no words ... Well, the photos are simply fantastic for all occasions and for everything that flies good
                5. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 4 July 2013 19: 16
                  +2
                  And not Google, mind you! In general, it’s tin to write from the phone, if only the telephone version of the site ... Or even the application! And Vadim? Maybe? If necessary, I can financially help. Not much but nonetheless ...
                6. VAF
                  VAF 4 July 2013 19: 35
                  +2
                  Quote: seasoned
                  Well, the photos are simply fantastic for all occasions and for everything that flies


                  Lesha, everything is very simple here ... to the disgrace wink , because I'm not only .. "near TsAGI ... I sweep" wassat

                  Give your SMART and ask for good shots in the air of course ...... wink

                  That's the photo and ... come out !!! fellow (If you click on the photo to become big, you will immediately see everything) fellow drinks (Do not have a hundred rubles. But have a hundred friends. Colleagues. Well and your students)! soldier

                7. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 4 July 2013 19: 41
                  +2
                  And here I can take photos of drying drums for the production of nitroamofoski, we have tin when you enter the workshop temperature 68 centigrade and the dust that ignites on the Sun with a robe ... How do I work apparatchiks ... Although there is some kind of romance. Yesterday I was at the grand tower, 150 meters, fotkal but off topic ...
      2. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 4 July 2013 18: 37
        +2
        Sergey hello, here’s read: the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ) conducts factory tests of an air sighting container. It is equipped with a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder and high-resolution optics, it detects targets in bad weather conditions day and night. And this is all for the SU-30, please explain what’s what and more-SU-30 is not equipped with all this by default? drinks
      3. VAF
        VAF 4 July 2013 18: 49
        +3
        Quote: TSOOBER
        Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ) conducts factory tests of an air sighting container


        Hi Igor! Yes ... the sadly "famous" and highly anticipated Sapsan for both the MiG-35S and the Su-30SM!

        And by default .... we only had Mercury for the su-39, everything else we wanted .. but the French didn't really help .. "helped"!
      4. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 4 July 2013 19: 25
        +1
        a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder and high-resolution optics - this is not the default in the SU-30, in the sense of not a container, but installed on the control system itself (then it turns out how to work on the ground? -)
      5. VAF
        VAF 4 July 2013 19: 40
        +1
        Quote: TSOOBER
        laser rangefinder and high-resolution optics


        And it’s all the direction finder in the OLS! The truth is about high resolution ...... optics (in the container much higher)!
        So far this is what they are working on on the ground ... on everything and on the MiG-29 and on the su-27SM bully
      6. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 4 July 2013 20: 43
        +1
        thank you hi otherwise I was already warning request
  • dustycat
    dustycat 4 July 2013 17: 36
    0
    At least take the same alabaster. No problem.
    The same penetron and hydrochit.
    Hydrochit generally in 15 minutes to stone.

    The question is that often in the Second World War and in the Korean conflict, it was necessary to take off under fire or when the plane was returning from a mission with dry tanks, and the lane had just after a raid.
    Try to ask the crew to hang in the air for half an hour until it hardens.
    The maximum that they managed to do was trample and level the funnels with a tractor. Not until the rink was.
  • VAF
    VAF 4 July 2013 15: 25
    +4
    Quote: klimpopov
    As one example. Again, there are hard landings when the "wheels" do not jump out (as my dad says). In this case, the ground is salvation.


    Klim, your example is clearly .. unsuccessful hi Always and .. forever and ever sits only on CONCRETE (and when with legs and when without, and even more so without any one !!!)
    Then everything will be fine and the plane is safe and ... the crew is alive.





    And by GRUNT it is necessary to understand the prepared runway, and not just the ground (such as a field).
    On the field ONLY on the belly, in all other cases ... KIRDYK
    to the plane, and if with bonding, then the pilot may not say hello!



    Since even going to the ground at high speed .. fraught with "breaking" the landing gear, God forbid, what would be the main, but if the front, then .... there will be problems!

    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 4 July 2013 17: 45
      +1
      Quote: vaf
      Always and .. forever and ever sits, it is necessary only on CONCRETE ....

      In Puli-Khumri (Avganistan) in 1985, I saw how a Su-500b made an emergency landing at a helicopter airfield (metal panels on top of the ground, 7m runway). The airfield is made with the letter "H", but since the runway was occupied by turntables, the plane went in between the legs of this letter (about 30 meters from where I stood). He sat down with the landing gear extended even before the strip, but immediately got into the trench with them and then slipped on his belly. Almost immediately it caught fire, and from the side it was not noticeable that its speed would fall. On the jumper of the letter "H" I crashed into a turntable (Mi-6) that was trying to get off the takeoff (seen by the dispatcher's command), and already fell apart behind the turntable.
      1. VAF
        VAF 4 July 2013 18: 39
        +2
        Quote: Bad_gr
        Su-7b went on an emergency landing.


        Well, the Afghans themselves have never been better in piloting technique. and even more so. what if "banged" to the strip, then ... "the pipe was doomed"! soldier

        Although our houses went on the ground and even on the rassky one .. quite normal .. the main thing is at a slightly higher speed and on an angle ... a little less and smoothly remove the speed and as soon as the "priest" on the ground immediately the handle from itself and ... (turning off the engine and disconnecting the aircraft) drinks

        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 4 July 2013 18: 47
          +1
          Quote: vaf
          Well, the Afghans themselves never differed for the better in piloting technique ...

          Yes, the drying was with an Afghan pilot, and he rammed the Mi-6 with a crew from Transbaikalia. 6 persons.
        2. VAF
          VAF 4 July 2013 19: 24
          +1
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Yes, the drying was with an Afghan pilot, and he rammed the Mi-6 with a crew from Transbaikalia. 6 persons.


          I have already learned this case in the union. the first term of the "business trip" ended in 1984! soldier

          And all the Su-7s were abandoned .. that in Shindand



          what's in Bagram ...



          Correctly then they said .... 2im what give ... what throw away "! recourse
        3. klimpopov
          klimpopov 4 July 2013 19: 35
          +1
          The Union didn’t count the money ... Maybe that’s how it happened? ... They gave it for free, but now they’re shitting on us ...
  • klimpopov
    klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 19
    +1
    Seryozha, I meant by "soil" naturally not a field, but exactly what you are talking about. So all the rules. The photo promised only in the evening when I get to my father, he rummages through the albums there. In general, he says they left for a spare when problems arose, even the ground was kept ideally. By the way, there were special roads, too, I don't know now. We also trained. Well, in general, of course he is right! When without one leg it is better not to let out the rest IMHO, or AS flyer
    1. VAF
      VAF 4 July 2013 18: 44
      +3
      Quote: klimpopov
      I mean by "soil" naturally not the field, but exactly what you are talking about. So all the rules. The photo promised only in the evening when I get to my father, he rummages through the albums there.


      Well then, I’ll show you mine .. I’ll show you! wink This is landing on an unpaved runway!



      And if without the front pillar, then only on concrete, but if one of the main ones did not come out, then try to "squeeze out" overload. Well, if not, then ... I would still go for two (though God had mercy), but I saw it myself. The guys did it drinks
      But only on CONCRETE !!! soldier
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 50
        +1
        And he posted my favorite! Thank!!! From Miga 15, of course, is not the same effect but also an airplane of the era.
      2. VAF
        VAF 4 July 2013 19: 19
        +3
        Quote: klimpopov
        And he posted my favorite! Thank!!!


        well, you know .... even though I'm old already, but I don't suffer from multiple sclerosis ... I always remember the "addiction" of my friends! drinks

        "The freshest" .. evening Volga near Engels wink

      3. klimpopov
        klimpopov 4 July 2013 19: 29
        +1
        Tear your soul! Which one is prettier? BUT? And this and that is the height of engineering! Thank you for the White Swan! And Tu-95 is also beautiful! Damn, they are all beautiful! What a pity that God did not let fly ... But life is so short ...
  • Cyber7
    Cyber7 4 July 2013 21: 20
    +1
    Yeah. Soft soil, nose to the ground, bonding (somersault, usually), a parachute that opened over the proposed burial site ...
    And two (and at best one) corpses of good people.
    Sad.
  • cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 4 July 2013 15: 38
    +1
    That's when you have, God forbid, "kerosene" yok, and there is only a field ahead

    Today, the cost of a pilot is almost equal to the cost of the plane on which he flies, so it would not hurt to teach them hand-to-hand training and shooting, otherwise kerosene would come out over enemy territory.
    1. VAF
      VAF 4 July 2013 15: 50
      +3
      Quote: cth; fyn
      so it would not hurt them to teach melee and shooting


      We, even in the "school" were taught constantly, and in the shelves the same, though there is more .. self-training!

      Quote: cth; fyn
      and then suddenly kerosene over enemy territory will come out.


      For this, you have a PM with you and two clips (according to the standard), well, and one more in NAZ (this is except for unloading) wink +! drinks
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 23
        +1
        As well as brandy, chocolate and greek nuts. Right now?
        1. VAF
          VAF 4 July 2013 19: 50
          +1
          Quote: klimpopov
          As well as brandy, chocolate and greek nuts.


          Gna about cognac ... tales, but the wine was ... shorter than the menu .... Prague rests. The system is only custom-made, and the little ones were better. Than the big ones .. well, imagine we have 48 pilots in the state shelf, and they ..... at least 120-150. but if you take the Tu-95th .. that’s all .... pipe.
          Imagine 3-4 "Kams" with a crew of 12 people each sit on a spare due to the weather and .... The base is hung up!
          But in the 50s it was generally ..... it’s better not to tell, Dad always took me on flights. And so .. what to do at home .. only to the airport ... so there are no words .... how in that Amerom joke ... when is your first strawberry? At 6 am!!! Or caviar again .. at least a piece of bread!
          And when I started serving, there was no longer black caviar .. only red and balyki! drinks
          But that was until 1985 .. then it was getting worse and worse ... but since 1990 in general ... almost noodles deshirak and artificial potatoes ... until they started to buzz!

          Now, of course, it’s better. But not like that .. as before ... earlier with a soul, but now .. outsourcing, you know .... wassat
        2. klimpopov
          klimpopov 4 July 2013 20: 04
          +1
          I mean that under the saddle of a flyer ... Cognac Armenian chocolate PM and nuts, for three days.
        3. VAF
          VAF 4 July 2013 20: 14
          +2
          Quote: klimpopov
          Cognac Armenian chocolate PM and nuts, for three days.


          No, there wasn’t such a thing in NAZ ... alcohol, Moscow chocolate, biscuits, canned food. Salt, matches, fishing hooks, PM (only with DB). And two more clips. In the sense of a box of 16 rounds. mosquito with a battery. well and a first-aid kit .. that's it! drinks
        4. klimpopov
          klimpopov 4 July 2013 23: 25
          +1
          drinks Seryozha tortured Dad right now! Says the unnamed sea brandy nut extract and Moscow chocolate ... I ask - "why tell stories?" He says "- and you believed" also says raisins and figs, then there should be an oriental beauty under gray - well, you never know how much to wander through the forests wassat drinks
          In general, you are a military man with humor! Reptiles mock solobons laughing drinks
  • cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 5 July 2013 11: 11
    +1
    For this, you have a PM and two clips with you

    And AKSU? they say it’s just being placed under the seat, of course not all that God, but still some kind of what, but an automaton.
    1. VAF
      VAF 5 July 2013 17: 57
      0
      Quote: cth; fyn
      And AKSU? they say it’s just under the seat,


      Honestly ... I have never seen such request Well, and how to sit in the "cup" of the chair? After all, you are already sitting on the NAZ, with a parachute pillow on top, and under the NAZ there is also a boat with an emergency beacon.

      We have AKSU under the IPS (individual harness) on the right side "hung" (fixed)
  • klimpopov
    klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 45
    +2
    The pilot is "more expensive" than iron !!! Anyway! The flyer has no prices. He is invaluable for a man!
  • klimpopov
    klimpopov 4 July 2013 13: 45
    +1
    What types of planes are preparing pilots for the Yak 130 on Su 27 or 29 instantly and will these aircraft take off from the ground? Or sits on the ground after a rain? soil time has passed, more and more soil will not be. and the corn-mailer sits even without the yak 130.

    The Yak 130 is designed to simulate control of all types of domestic aircraft. The program is launched and the plane begins to behave like the Su - 25, for example, that is, it reacts with some deceleration when the "steering wheel" is "left" / "right", as an example.
    1. VAF
      VAF 4 July 2013 15: 55
      +2
      Quote: klimpopov
      the plane begins to behave like the Su - 25, for example, that is, it reacts with some deceleration when the "steering wheel" is "left" / "right", as an example.


      Yes, yes, but what about cab ergonomics, fittings, fittings, visualization, avionics, AO, REO, PrNK, AB, power systems, engines and fuel automation? wink
      The same .... "the program is launched" and the Yak-130 already "functions" like ... the one that you need wassat
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 26
        +1
        Seryozha, well, I saw enough of the "polygon", there the journalist "flew" and so it was as described. He also goes out to the horizon. Well, ground simulators. Like the rules of the training plane. Again, I'm not an expert - that's my opinion.
  • During
    During 4 July 2013 10: 57
    0
    serious differences in the tail, otherwise as Yakovlev ... apparently the Chinese did not find compact engines ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 July 2013 10: 59
      +1
      Quote: Durant
      otherwise as Yakovlev.

      Longer, less wing area.
      1. During
        During 4 July 2013 11: 16
        0
        the length is just visible, as I wrote above, I didn’t pay attention to the area, but if you don’t know about the difference, then it would be difficult to think ...
        1. Akim
          Akim 4 July 2013 11: 23
          +3
          Quote: Durant
          didn’t pay attention to the area

          Because of this, it is worse for cadets in piloting.
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 4 July 2013 11: 04
      +3
      The Chinese engine with an afterburner is longer.
      1. VAF
        VAF 4 July 2013 16: 31
        +3
        Quote: fzr1000
        The Chinese engine with an afterburner is longer.


        And the Italian wink ?

        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 4 July 2013 16: 57
          +1
          The "Italian" has the same length as the Yak 130, and the speed too, if I don't confuse anything.
          1. VAF
            VAF 4 July 2013 17: 14
            +1
            Quote: fzr1000
            The "Italian" has the same length as the Yak 130


            No, you don’t confuse, + !, but with the rest ... okay. We won’t. But then again .. Aksakal .. sad wassat
            1. fzr1000
              fzr1000 4 July 2013 17: 19
              +1
              Uh, what does Saxau have to do with it .... Aksakal? And the Italian’s engines aren’t ours, so I don’t know how everything is pussed over there. But should this moment be taken into account when designing?
              1. VAF
                VAF 4 July 2013 17: 43
                +3
                Quote: fzr1000
                Uh, what does Saxau have to do with it .... Aksakal?


                And he always .. "gets upset" when they begin to discuss something ... "imported nothing" wassat and immediately ... to Israel "sends" to .. permanent residence crying

                Quote: fzr1000
                And the Italian’s engines aren’t ours, so I don’t know how everything is pussed over there


                The Italian is lighter, the engines are more powerful, it takes more fuel, and at the same time, with a full refueling (internal), it can take 2700 kg of "goose"! good
                And we ... "give out" lol : and the thrust ratio is better belay and flies at the same range (with less fuel and a higher specific consumption and) belay and greater take-off weight (with weaker engines) belay
                At the same time, Italians reduced the empty weight by 700 kg. Due to composite and titanium, and ours .... just wrote take-off weight. wassat
                1. experienced
                  experienced 4 July 2013 17: 48
                  +3
                  Quote: vaf
                  Quote: fzr1000
                  Uh, what does Saxau have to do with it .... Aksakal?

                  And he always .. "gets upset" when they begin to discuss something ... "imports" and immediately ... "sends" to Israel for .. permanent residence


                  Hello, Seryoga! And I had an interesting story with this aksakal in my "past" life (under a different nickname). On some topic, he tried to "build" me, when he ran out of arguments, like: who are you, a week without a year, and here I am already "overgrown with moss" and people like you "will plug in bundles in the belt." Well, here I "turned around". In general, this "steppe bush" merged almost immediately, only slightly "agonizing" laughing
                  Self-conceit in a person ... Mentality to see wassat
                2. klimpopov
                  klimpopov 4 July 2013 18: 31
                  +1
                  Serezha, did the Italian seem to be joint with Russia? Or am I confusing? And what prevents ours from doing the same with Yak? Although I guess about the answer ...
                3. Akim
                  Akim 4 July 2013 18: 48
                  +2
                  Quote: klimpopov
                  And what prevents us from doing the same with Yak

                  Engines and weight.
                4. VAF
                  VAF 4 July 2013 19: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: klimpopov
                  Yakom do the same? Although I guess about the answer ...


                  Well dear Akim you already very clearly and competently answered drinks although I would also ... added something ... but promised myself today .. without criticism! wink
              2. fzr1000
                fzr1000 4 July 2013 19: 23
                +2
                I didn’t know what happened. sad Well, and who are we kidding? Myself ...
  • yurasumy
    yurasumy 4 July 2013 13: 58
    0
    The engine with the afterburner is longer (by the length of the afterburner) because of the differences.
  • rolik
    rolik 4 July 2013 11: 41
    +2
    Quote: Canep
    I did not find any serious differences, the Chinese seem to have made a budget version of the Yak-130.

    Why do they need serious differences. This is an article, consumer goods. In South America, have recently been burned at this consumer goods. We bought a Chinese radar for ourselves, and at one point they all got burned. As if these planes did not begin to fall en masse, and maybe electronics will begin to refuse.
  • Interface
    Interface 4 July 2013 13: 38
    0
    If there are simplifications --- then it will lose the competition to the Yak-130, today only banana countries buy cheap stuff for the "number". On the contrary, today functional aircraft with a set of new technologies are in price. Because The yak was made by us in our factories as an educational one for many years to come, which means that the functionality and quality of the Chinese "shrimp" is less than ours.
    Regarding aerodromes, not every country has the opportunity to build them with a smoothed surface, so the Yak 130 will become indispensable for them, and the Chinese will not fly, it has the wrong aerodynamic data (no additional air intakes). Or the Chinese will "fart" with dust if he decides to take off from the ground.
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 July 2013 13: 49
      +2
      Quote: Interface
      today only banana countries buy cheap stuff for "number". On the contrary, today functional aircraft with a set of new technologies are in price.

      The man who was there when they were studying the possibility of assembling the L-15 in Odessa said that the aircraft was very technological, practically no worse than the Yak-130.
  • Locksmith
    Locksmith 4 July 2013 20: 43
    0
    Quote: Canep
    I think there are many simplifications inside.

    the carbon plumage is embarrassing, from the experience of operating the models it is clear that the Chinese carbon is complete bullshit, I doubt that it is different, the Amer carbon is like glass, hard and strong, until you bring it to the limit = at least hell, even the geometry does not change much, Chinese carbon --Oh, how many wonderful discoveries we have, this bastard is preparing .. bends and delaminates, as strong as our old fiberglass, but our fiberglass does not break wink so stupid and does not "play" fellow
  • Letun
    Letun 4 July 2013 21: 10
    +1
    Quote: Canep
    The Chinese are cheaper because they did not implement part of the Yak-130 functionality.

    I think that the Chinese are more cheaper because in China freaks with raking hands are being shot in batches.
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 4 July 2013 10: 22
    +2
    Come on color, look at the wing.
  • buzuke
    buzuke 4 July 2013 13: 50
    0
    these no longer blush, as they are not blush. put on everyone and copy everything and everything. and especially do not worry that they themselves do not invent anything. the main thing is that they already have everything in operation, earlier than those who invented
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 4 July 2013 09: 47
    +2
    Quote: fzr1000
    And the Yak 130 is beautiful
    No doubt, this "scoundrel" is cheaper. 10 versus $ 15 million.
  • Atrix
    Atrix 4 July 2013 10: 19
    +4
    And Russia still has a desire to sell the Su-35 and the rest of the new equipment to China? In order for a cheap copy to appear through 2-3 of the year and become a competitor to Russian technology.
  • self-propelled
    self-propelled 4 July 2013 10: 50
    0
    Quote: fzr1000
    And the Yak 130 is beautiful.

    something "Chinese" strongly looks like a Yak. nor as an illegitimate son? what
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 5 July 2013 00: 31
    0
    Quote: fzr1000
    And the Yak 130 is beautiful.


    They waited ... the Chinas sang the blueprints right from under the nose ...
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 4 July 2013 09: 25
      0
      And they were not given to the Chinese. Unless someone quietly leaked them some documentation on the project for money. The Chinese copied it based on visual observations. Outside Russia, the Yak-130 was delivered only to Algeria and all 12 cars were there. Algeria, theoretically, could give them access, by the way. Again, if it is visually similar, then this does not mean that it flies the same way and its filling is at the same level :)
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 4 July 2013 10: 15
        0
        In general, the rumors about the transfer of one of the variants of the Su-35 to mine are meant. Essenes are not technology, but do they have faith that they won’t get it?
    2. Airman
      Airman 4 July 2013 09: 47
      +7
      Quote: ShadowCat
      And after that, give the Chinese anything other than x @ # and the tour route nah @ #?


      Why the hell were the Chinese launched at the Yakovlev Design Bureau? What bitch sold the technical documentation? There are more questions than answers. Or Babdo doesn't smell, but is brain-stirring? In Soviet times, the "seller" would have long waved a pick in Kolyma.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 4 July 2013 10: 46
        +3
        What the hell did the Chinese run at Yakovlev Design Bureau? What su-ka sold technical documentation?


        according to some information, back in the early 2000s, HAIG cooperated with Yakovleva Design Bureau, and Chinese engineers had access to Russian technical documentation.


        This assumption is not supported, so far, by anything but speculation.

        In general, the rumors about the transfer of one of the variants of the Su-35 to mine are meant. Essenes are not technology, but do they have faith that they won’t get it?


        Then you need to call everything by their proper names, otherwise there will be misunderstandings, etc. wink

        On the part of the Su-35, I will remain with my opinion. Of course, they can copy the glider, according to the materials - they can probably reproduce it, but they are not able to make a 100% copy since no relevant technology. This can be observed in radars, and in power plants, and in a number of other areas. I repeat, if the plane is visually similar, then this does not mean that it also flies.
        1. rolik
          rolik 4 July 2013 11: 43
          +1
          Quote: Constantine
          based on materials - it’s possible to reproduce,

          According to the materials, they will not be reproduced either, there are no such technologies.
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 4 July 2013 11: 55
            +2
            Especially. Therefore, the panic is not entirely justified. At least not in the extreme form in which it has been observed recently.
      2. 0255
        0255 4 July 2013 17: 00
        +1
        and what the hell did the Americans launch at Yakovlev Design Bureau, selling them the Yak 141 technology? If Americans sold the technology of the first domestic VTOL aircraft, then why be surprised at the Chinese version of the combat training Yak-130?
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 4 July 2013 09: 25
    +1
    Something I did not understand, and why is he so similar to the Yak? Or on the M-346? It’s like Yak wasn’t for sale, the Chinese bought a couple of M-346 copies and licked everything to the bolt?
    1. dominion
      dominion 4 July 2013 10: 23
      +1
      Yakovlev Design Bureau back in the 90s designed this plane for the Chinese, since at that time the Design Bureau did not have money, but there was something for it.
  • tungus
    tungus 4 July 2013 09: 32
    +2
    And still we continue to sell our weapons to China. And who calculated how much we earned from sales to China, and how much we lost from copies of our cars sold by China? Has anyone correlated these numbers? Is the game worth the candle?
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 4 July 2013 10: 16
      0
      we are hedgehogs, hedgehogs. we stick, weep, but we eat cactus.
  • Refund_SSSR
    Refund_SSSR 4 July 2013 09: 36
    +3
    This situation begins to annoy childishly! negative
  • Dart weyder
    Dart weyder 4 July 2013 09: 38
    +1
    So much for the Chinese comrades ................... - I think the price will be cheaper than analogues ........... they helped to build ..... - Is there Reason up there !?
  • StolzSS
    StolzSS 4 July 2013 09: 41
    0
    Yes, let it go garbage. Well, would you personally sell a lot yourself if the Chinese did not give anything at all ???
    This is the UBS why is there something to raise on the subject all slamzili all copied ??? And what were the cross-eyed options? What would you do in their place ??? So let them rivet little by little pieces of 30 per year))) wink
  • NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 4 July 2013 09: 53
    +4
    But this Chinese miracle cannot simulate the flight of Tu-160 and MiG-29. At least some consolation
  • Tatar
    Tatar 4 July 2013 09: 58
    0
    In any case, on the basis of the Russian Yak-130, if necessary, it is also possible to create a supersonic aircraft. This was stated not only by a representative of the Yakovlev Design Bureau, but also by representatives of the Irkut Aircraft Corporation.

    I think these are problems. since when setting up an engine with an afterburner, the footprint for this engine will increase, then the glider will have to be redone, and this is already a new technology, production lines and equipment.
    1. Roll
      Roll 4 July 2013 10: 20
      0
      wassat You can go the Chinese way and reduce the flight range, only given that the weight of an empty Yak 130 is greater than -15, the range will be very small.
  • Roll
    Roll 4 July 2013 10: 05
    +1
    wassat What is good about a Chinese airplane is cheap, it is not tied to Russia, but tied to Ukraine (engines) is bad for us, composites are bigger than ours. As a combat aircraft, to combat UAVs, helicopters, cruise missiles, it’s almost perfect, that is, if it catches up with a cruise missile with a flight speed of up to 1,4 m, our Yak 130 will not boast of it, if the Chinas establish an AFAR, then it will be absolutely beautiful. whether he has a cannon, And ours stuck bombs and nurses on the Yak 130, they thought that from YAK -130 the attack aircraft thought why this window dress, there were at most 6 air rockets, otherwise the 41-year-old syndrome didn’t give rest, again heavy bombers for the assault columns of tanks covered by anti-aircraft systems, there is a Su 25 attack aircraft and nothing to be wise about.
    1. dominion
      dominion 4 July 2013 10: 28
      +1
      SU-25 costs quite different money. And the customer asked to protect the cabin and the engine with armor, as he wants to use the Yak-130 as an attack aircraft.
      1. Roll
        Roll 4 July 2013 10: 44
        +1
        wassat But as a strategic bomber, he the customer does not want to use it? suspend the suspended fuel tanks and all the short life. The attack aircraft from the yak 130 and l-15 as from a shit bullet, even though the armor is hanging, at least not. There are attack helicopters mi -28 and su -25, they are created for such tasks and the price does not matter, but the downed yak -130 with needles or stingers you included in the price calculation ???
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 4 July 2013 10: 35
      +2
      Uh, engines, China will make its own as soon as it is ready.
      1. rolik
        rolik 4 July 2013 15: 23
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        Uh, engines, China will make its own as soon as it is ready.

        China is still making its engines, but their resource is ridiculously small. Ten to fifteen times less than ours. Nobody handed over the technology of blade production to the Chinese, neither we nor the mattresses. Moreover, we, our technology for the production of blades from a grown crystal, is unique, no one has it.
        And the Chinese, in order to master only the technology that mattresses use, will take about 50 years, and to ours on foot to the moon.
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 4 July 2013 15: 33
          0
          I am aware that they can’t. But for such an aircraft they will rivet their own. This is not Su or MiG.
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 4 July 2013 17: 45
        0
        What for?
        Motor Sich will cheaply do them on their territory while our Italian helicopters will be assembled with screwdrivers.
        And they will buy up the decommissioned MI2, MI6, Mi8, put their dvigla on them and will sell to everyone who buys. The same to our oil workers.
    3. Tatar
      Tatar 4 July 2013 10: 38
      +1
      On the Yak 130, you can simply hang missiles with target designation from the A50U (A100) with its small EPR a lot of fun to get the enemy.
    4. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 4 July 2013 11: 54
      +4
      Quote: Rolm
      And ours stuck on Yak 130 and bombs and nurses, they, that from YAK -130 the attack aircraft conceived, why this window dressing,

      That's right, that stuck. The Yak-130 is primarily a training aircraft, and cadets must learn not only to fly, but also to use the entire range of weapons that we use on combat aircraft.
    5. rolik
      rolik 4 July 2013 15: 20
      0
      Quote: Rolm
      they that from YAK -130 attack aircraft conceived

      In general, after Le Bourget, potential customers just asked to strengthen the booking of Yak. There is a desire to make him an easy attack aircraft, the idea itself is sound. inexpensive attack aircraft with good performance for poor customers.
    6. Odysseus
      Odysseus 4 July 2013 15: 36
      +1
      Quote: Rolm
      our Yak 130 will not boast of it if the Chinas establish an AFAR

      The Chinese, of course, well done, but installing AFAR is too much. How much will it cost then and what kind of AFAR will they be able to cram there? This is still TCB.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sens99.ru
    sens99.ru 4 July 2013 10: 24
    +1
    And I just don’t know where I saw this Chinese yellow airplane?)
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 4 July 2013 10: 27
    +3
    The People’s Republic of China is a copy republic. They stuck something ridiculous in these narrow-film drawings so that they could get rid of it completely with their photocopiers. Chinese wisdom was enough to slam the idea, to make it cheaper and to boil, and even the grass there wouldn’t grow. Some were already armed with Chinese radars !
    "Not all that glitters is gold" and "we are not rich enough to buy cheap things", so let them take Made in China only when they remember about the "Gardener" market
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 4 July 2013 12: 46
      +1
      Ohh, I offended three Chinese laughing
      1. rolik
        rolik 4 July 2013 15: 25
        0
        Quote: mhpv
        Ohh, I offended three Chinese

        laughing
  • duke
    duke 4 July 2013 10: 28
    -2
    perhaps they created the Yak as a TCB, but now the need has suddenly ripened to put his product on supersonic and make a full-fledged, light hawk, albeit with the functions of a light attack aircraft since we have a gap in this niche. The MiG 35 weighs 23,5 tons already and is not suitable for this purpose, this is clearly a class of heavy vehicles, in addition, at the price it also approached the Su-30. Work on the 5th generation of light fighter jets is not underway, at least officially. So it remains to make a light fighter-attack aircraft of class 4+ based on the Yak-130, we have nothing more for these purposes, but for the Yak there is already a service base, the refinement will not be too expensive - a new engine, airframe amplification, modern AFARs and FCS . All the same, for the same money that the MiG already costs $ 80 million, you can buy 5 Jacob. For a huge country, with all the advantages of heavy vehicles, you just need to have a lot of light, inexpensive, modern hawks. Moreover, if the pilots will be taught on it, then there is no need to retrain at all. In addition, poor countries will be happy to buy from us an inexpensive, but full fighter. Anyway, Russian quality is still an order of magnitude better than Chinese. I do not understand why none of those who make decisions will look at the problem from this point of view. Perhaps MiG lobbyists are stronger than Yaka. Since the magnificent Su successfully occupies the niche of heavy vehicles, the Migovites are trying to occupy the alien niche of the lungs, with their heavy bird, because So she seems inferior in many ways.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 4 July 2013 10: 45
      +2
      perhaps they created the Yak as a TCB, but now the need has suddenly ripened to put his product on supersonic and make a full-fledged, light hawk, albeit with the functions of a light attack aircraft since we have a gap in this niche.

      What did the 35 MiG not please you?
      MiG 35 already weighs 23,5 tons and is not suitable for this purpose, it is clearly a class of heavy vehicles, in addition, at the price it also came close to the Su-30.

      It’s not true, the maximum is the middle class, but at a price half that of drying!
      Work on the 5 th generation of light fighter jets is not underway - at least officially.

      And why is he so needed?
      So it remains to make a light fighter-attack aircraft of the 4 + class based on the Yak-130, we have nothing more for these purposes,

      The maximum that he will be able to drive bearded in the mountains. And so, this is a good training aircraft, we also have a shortage of them. But the L-39 is not very much taught in modern drying and in the future on the T-50.
      Since the magnificent Su successfully occupies the niche of heavy vehicles, the Migovites are trying to occupy the alien niche of the lungs, with their heavy bird, because So she seems inferior in many ways.

      With what fright do you compare light and heavy fighters?
      1. Argon
        Argon 4 July 2013 15: 14
        +1
        Dear Duke, you are not the first one who is worried about the weight of our "light" fighter, so for reference the MiG-35 weighs 11 tons
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 4 July 2013 15: 22
          +1
          empty (dry) ...
        2. duke
          duke 4 July 2013 15: 50
          0
          what do you make a vile out of me -
          read the highly respected site -
          According to a source in the Ministry of Defense, the start of production of the Mig-2013 at the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod in 2014-35 was called into question. So far, the management has not abandoned these plans, but according to experts, due to the proximity of the MiG-35 to the upper limit of cost and maximum weight (more than a billion rubles and 30 tons, respectively), it is possible that the preference will be on the side of modernizing the existing fleet of MiG- 29.http: //vpk.name/news/58419_tumannoe_budushee_mig35.html
      2. rolik
        rolik 4 July 2013 15: 27
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        Work on the 5 th generation of light fighter jets is not underway - at least officially.

        Why not conducted? Our Indians, it seems, are designing something similar, unless of course I am mistaken.
        1. duke
          duke 4 July 2013 15: 54
          -1
          my dears, well, why bother me, well, study the press, we are talking about a heavy machine, created jointly with KB Su - Negotiations with India on joining forces to create a common program for the construction of a 5th generation fighter have been going on for quite some time. As a result, it was agreed that on the basis of the promising front-line aviation complex (PAK FA), a modification of this aircraft will be created, which received the designation FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) .http: //topwar.ru/20371-vvs-rossii-vooruzhatsya -istrebitelyami-mig-35-v
          -2014-godu.htmlhttp: //topwar.ru/20371-vvs-rossii-vooruzhatsya-istrebitelyami-mig
          -35-v-2014-godu.html
        2. Wedmak
          Wedmak 4 July 2013 20: 32
          +1
          Quote: Wedmak
          Work on the 5 th generation of light fighter jets is not underway - at least officially.

          These are not my words, please be careful.
      3. duke
        duke 4 July 2013 15: 43
        0
        But where did you find me comparing them? Give a phrase though !!! In the 5th grade, I said that we do not have such a machine, but the Americans have it, there are no middle class cars anywhere, because the famous F-16 and Chinese FC-1, these are still light cars ... you will find the rest yourself in I-net- I'm not going to chew and put in my mouth ... I just said that there should be a price-quality ratio. and I didn’t talk about attack aircraft, because there is a Su-39, or you need to make a lot of cheap type Il-10 (Brazilian Tucano) to drive your bearded thugs, I said that you need to fill the niche of light and inexpensive hawks ... and the rest, not even your hypothesis, is just a fantasy. .. I apologize if I offended, but do not distort it ...
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 4 July 2013 15: 27
      +1
      Quote: duke
      The MiG 35 weighs 23,5 tons already and is not suitable for this purpose, this is clearly a class of heavy vehicles, in addition, at the price it also approached the Su-30

      This is the maximum take-off.
      Quote: duke
      So it remains to make a light fighter-attack aircraft of class 4+ based on the Yak-130, we have nothing more for these purposes, but for the Yak there is already a service base, the refinement will not be too expensive - a new engine, airframe amplification, modern AFARs and FCS

      In short, this is not possible. An easy attack aircraft can still be done, put a small radar, but the load will be small.
      1. duke
        duke 4 July 2013 15: 57
        0
        Excuse me, are you a specialist? If the Israelis are ready to make such a bird based on the Italian clone, then why shouldn’t we?
        1. VAF
          VAF 4 July 2013 16: 45
          +3
          Quote: duke
          Excuse me, are you a specialist?


          Sorry to "interrupt", but dear Odysseus directly connected with aviation and does not "draw" information from the "throwing noodles" of the press wassat
          Not .. much .. "upset"?

          Quote: duke
          If the Israelis are ready to make such a bird based on the Italian clone, then why shouldn’t we?


          What do you mean by that? The fact that the Israelis put some avionics systems and their weapons? So after all, they buy a plane for themselves, to train their pilots, and not for ... uncle!

          Quote: duke
          why can't we?


          Why not ... possible. That's just not asked a question. Why is the Elbit on the Su-30MKI? On the A-50IE Falcon? Never looked at our ILS bully
          Down there there is an article about ... "aviadarts", so for some reason the Israeli UAV was "pinned" there for control ... although yesterday it was fellow article about our UAV exhibition wassat

          Well, since we have already read about Lavi, then in general .. what questions can there be? request

        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 5 July 2013 02: 03
          -1
          Because for this you need to add so much equipment that you get an airplane of a different weight category. The Yak-130 is even smaller than a Tejas.
      2. duke
        duke 4 July 2013 16: 25
        -1
        do you think that the Israelis would buy, and even call it Lavi? I can believe in anything, but not in the stupidity of the Israelites ... they also studied everything in advance, drove it on computers and bought it !!! Do you think that they can afford money to the wind ??? Or make a temptation for the Russian Federation, which created it?
        1. 0255
          0255 4 July 2013 17: 09
          0
          Israel counted on US assistance in the production of Lavi, but the Americans refused to sponsor a new Israeli fighter, and offered to buy an additional batch of F-16s.
  • Denb
    Denb 4 July 2013 10: 33
    +3
    Quote: Constantine
    And they were not given to the Chinese. Unless someone quietly leaked them some documentation on the project for money. The Chinese copied it based on visual observations. Outside Russia, the Yak-130 was delivered only to Algeria and all 12 cars were there. Algeria, theoretically, could give them access, by the way. Again, if it is visually similar, then this does not mean that it flies the same way and its filling is at the same level :)


    Before you carry the gag, you need to at least a little climb on the Internet and read !!!

    The development of the Yak-130 began in 1992 in conjunction with the Italian company Aermacchi. Its prototype Yak-130D was first flown around on April 26, 1996. After several years of cooperation, the Italians left the program and started their own project MV346. However, the release of Ermakka had no effect in the fight against its main competitor - MiG-AT. The Yak-130 prototype was converted into a full-fledged prototype and since 2003, the Sokol serial plant in Nizhny Novgorod began production of 4 prototypes and 12 serial vehicles for the Russian Air Force (4 aircraft should be manufactured this year, 8 in 2009) The remaining aircraft will be built in Irkutsk (NPK Irkut). In total, the state weapons program until 2015 ordered 62 aircraft for the Russian Air Force.



    The Chinese L-15, which made its first flight on March 13, 2006, unlike the Yak-130, has a supersonic flight speed, thanks to engines with an afterburner (L-15 - 1,4M, Yak-130 - 1050 km / h). In 2002-04, according to the Director General of the Design Bureau named after A.S. Yakovleva Oleg Demchenko, "a Russian company commissioned by the Chinese corporation AVIC-2 (Aviation Industry of China / Second Group) provided advice and prepared an engineering note on the concept of the supersonic L-15 TCB." The first prototypes, like the first Yak-130, were equipped with DV-2S engines with a thrust of 2200/4200 kgf each (licensed Slovak engine “Povazhske Stroyarne”, manufactured in Ukraine). The third prototype L-15-03 was first flown around on May 10, 2008 and, also repeating the production version of the Yak-130, it is equipped with AI-222K-25F boosted engines with a thrust of 2500/4200 kgf each developed by the Zaporozhye ICD Progress.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 4 July 2013 14: 53
      0
      Before you carry the gag, you need to at least a little climb on the Internet and read !!!


      Consulting and technology transfer are slightly different things. What served as a starting point is not clear. Have they taken measurements, etc.? before consultations, whether they had drawings of a copy up to this point - it is not clear. The Yak-130 made its first flight in 1996, so there were opportunities to take measurements and fit the original. For 6 years they could work on it. And then, the technology itself could be merged even under EBN, which is more like the truth. The point is that the cry is due to the fact that they allegedly drove it here, but no one takes into account that production began in 2009 and nowhere, and the Chinese copy flew in 2006. Or do you think the Chinese have a time machine? As for 1996, and in general of that period, the mess was not commensurate with what we can now observe.

      Before throwing loud phrases, it would not be bad to look at the question from different angles yourself.
      1. duke
        duke 4 July 2013 16: 20
        -1
        you want to say that we are entrusted with the Chinese? I congratulate you ...
        1. Constantine
          Constantine 4 July 2013 16: 25
          0
          I want to say that you need to read comments carefully and to the end. And I say that they could push it with us long before the serial production of the Yak-130. You need to congratulate yourself. Learning Russian would not hurt.

          I do not know what level of inference can be said with such a presentation of thoughts:
          you want to say that we rested with the Chinese

          But it doesn’t hurt you look like Russian, since you don’t know your language at least at the basic level.
  • Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 4 July 2013 10: 39
    +2
    helped ... created a serious competitor ..
  • igor36
    igor36 4 July 2013 11: 03
    +4
    Quote: DeNB
    In 2002-04, according to the Director General of the Design Bureau named after A.S. Oleg Demchenko Yakovleva, “a Russian company commissioned by the Chinese corporation AVIC-2 (Aviation Industry of China / Second Group) provided advice and prepared an engineering note on the concept of the supersonic TCB L-15”

    About patriotism and competition, this is certainly good, but if Yakovlev’s OK 90 did not deal with such orders, but would have been waiting for orders from the Russian Ministry of Defense, then perhaps this design bureau would not have existed and would not have any Yak-130.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 4 July 2013 14: 54
      0
      But it doesn’t matter. In general, a lot is not important. The main thing is to keep up with the fact that the Chinese have reproduced, and under what circumstances and how it happened - and everyone on the drum. The main thing is to pour mud over your own.
  • scorpido
    scorpido 4 July 2013 11: 21
    +3
    Again slammed (
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 4 July 2013 13: 05
      +1
      Need to pass a law against piracy?
  • Gurza
    Gurza 4 July 2013 12: 24
    +2
    China introduced the competitor Yak-130, it turned out to be the Yak-130. =))))
  • Andrey77
    Andrey77 4 July 2013 12: 55
    +1
    In copying, they are ahead of the rest. I must admit. Why did you decide to copy our plane, and not American? Indirect evidence that our primary education (training) aircraft are the best in the world. Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe, but the Chinese are rarely mistaken.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 4 July 2013 13: 16
      +2
      It's easier to buy from us. I look forward to continuing the story with the sale of the Su-35 to China. After the sale, in a couple of years we will see the "newest, purely Chinese" J-30/40/50, one to one similar to our dryer. Something I even have no doubts that it will be so. And all these documents about the inadmissibility of copying are bullshit.
      We will copy and we will not show anything to the Chinese, except for angry statements.
      1. Andrey77
        Andrey77 4 July 2013 14: 54
        0
        It's like that. Output? All KB under camp guard?
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 4 July 2013 15: 15
        +4
        Quote: Wedmak
        It's easier to buy from us. I look forward to continuing the story with the sale of the Su-35 to China. After the sale, in a couple of years we will see the "newest, purely Chinese" J-30/40/50, one to one similar to our dryer. Something I do not even have doubts that it will be so.

        The Chinese say that they will not copy, ours say that they will not copy, if this does not convince you, think for yourself.
        Now is the middle of 2013, the contract for 24 aircraft according to the current production capabilities will not be fully implemented until 2016. The only complex engine in the Su-35. It will take 2-3 years to copy it with the proper reliability. Question for China in 2019 expand the production of an outdated aircraft? Especially when they have J-20, J-31 but without engines. It is clear that they will either copy the engines (which is most likely), or simply study them and use the experience to create WS-15. In general, the question is with 35 is more of a political nature (at the current balance of forces on the Eastern theater of military affairs it does not have military significance), is the point is to help the PRC with engine building in exchange for some kind of preferences or not?
        The trouble in the other is our own Air Force without new aircraft. According to the mind, you must first fully equip them, and then sell them.
  • Muxauk
    Muxauk 4 July 2013 13: 28
    0
    the main thing is that the plant is competitive
  • Pelican
    Pelican 4 July 2013 13: 30
    0
    I think this time, the Chinese are not our competitors. Their plane is cheaper than the Yak-130 in price, but clearly more expensive to operate. Their installation of an excessively powerful engine is a very big mistake for cars of this class.
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 July 2013 13: 54
      0
      Quote: Pelican
      Their installation of an excessively powerful engine is a very big mistake for cars of this class.

      Nothing like this. The lieutenants in the troops have to finish up on supersonic. And AI-225-25F does not always work at maximum speeds.
      .
  • pamero
    pamero 4 July 2013 13: 43
    0
    I didn’t read the article at all, I read only the name and looked at the photos. I wonder which competitor is the Yak Xnumx? they look like identical brothers (twins). Where does the military counterintelligence of Russia look? Everybody cherish a quarterly bonus (I mean the FSB). The Chinese have stolen everything, or two smart people think the same one of two things! Then the Chinese designer must be lured to live with us!
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 July 2013 14: 01
      0
      Quote: pamero
      I didn’t read the article at all, I read only the name and looked at the photos


      Read and see. that Yakovlev’s design bureau sold it to the Chinese.
    2. igor36
      igor36 4 July 2013 14: 09
      +2
      Quote: pamero
      Then the Chinese designer must be lured to live with us!

      These were the Chinese designers Li Si Tsin and Si Ni Tsin.
      1. igor36
        igor36 5 July 2013 01: 03
        +2
        lol And the most famous Chinese designers Su Hoi and Mi Ko Yan
  • andrey903
    andrey903 4 July 2013 14: 39
    0
    Dumping to capture markets
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 4 July 2013 15: 17
      +1
      And rightly so. Have you been to China for a long time? For example, a "Swiss" watch for $ 10 is distinguished from the original only in a workshop (not every one). Exact copy, including mechanics.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 4 July 2013 15: 30
        +1
        Don't exaggerate about the clock. Chinese movements have a completely different number of "stones", the move is tuned to a higher frequency, which a reputable firm will never allow itself. And the final adjustment of each mechanism is not done in China. And this is also a cost.

        Another thing is that earlier it was possible to bring from there a local analogue of "Komandirskie". A very decent watch. Now I don't know if you can buy them or just imitation is sold everywhere.

        In Moscow, at least, nowhere in a pawnshop or on the "Hourly Exchange" is there a fake instead of the original.
        1. VAF
          VAF 4 July 2013 16: 10
          +1
          Quote: fzr1000
          Another thing is that earlier it was possible to bring from there a local analogue of "Komandirskie".


          Let me ask you why "Komandirskie" then .. bring? request
          The first Moscow watch factory produced and is producing ... sale is free ... there used to be a price of 137 rubles.
          But the watch .. so-so ... "show-off" more, the glass is scratched constantly, not shockproof, not waterproof, the bracelet is corroded and then your hand .. you will wash it away from blackness.
          When ejecting me, when I reset the flashlight at an altitude of 1200 meters, the glass and all the arrows flew away immediately (when the holders pulled everything, it was imprinted on the camera).
          The only advantage ... heavy! drinks +! good
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 4 July 2013 16: 34
            +1
            They are not a copy of "Komandirskie", but watches for officers of lower and middle rank. Just for information, I wrote.
            1. VAF
              VAF 4 July 2013 16: 51
              +1
              Quote: fzr1000
              They are not a copy of "Komandirskie", but watches for officers of lower and middle rank.


              Well, I understood +! drinks It’s just that we have them for the flight personnel of the Air Force and Aviation of the Navy of the USSR .. were .. I don’t know now, everyone mainly goes with Omega and Tissot wink
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 4 July 2013 17: 07
                +1
                Well, I'm happy for the drugs. Growing, you know, the welfare of the people. smile
          2. fzr1000
            fzr1000 4 July 2013 16: 45
            +1
            And this is the 1965 model for the pilots. Like our "Flight".

          3. fzr1000
            fzr1000 4 July 2013 16: 50
            +1
            When ejecting me, when I reset the flashlight at an altitude of 1200 meters, the glass and all the arrows flew away immediately (when the holders pulled everything, it was imprinted on the camera).

            The arrows also catapulted, scared to see. winked
            1. VAF
              VAF 4 July 2013 17: 24
              +2
              Quote: fzr1000
              The arrows also catapulted, scared to see.


              Don’t ... they immediately ... as the lantern started to leave. The ARD was in normal mode, and not in combat. Therefore, the pressure drop was instant, so .... flew .. after the glass, but for some reason with a white haze .
              But when it landed fellow then the mechanism worked wink
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 4 July 2013 19: 18
                +1
                Well, our mechanical part was always on top. good
  • Vtel
    Vtel 4 July 2013 15: 59
    0
    In terms of the speed of construction, China gives a head start, and the quality is also modernized. So we need to increase and modernize domestic production, that is, the military-industrial complex.
  • Sleptsoff
    Sleptsoff 4 July 2013 16: 15
    -1
    I'm waiting for a competitor su-35s.
    1. 0255
      0255 4 July 2013 17: 15
      +1
      it is necessary for the Chinese to sell also PAK FA and the future PAK YES for complete happiness (((
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 4 July 2013 18: 25
    0
    Well, China is ahead, and we are neighing, how many Chinese in general have sold planes except the MiG-21?
  • R.R.A.
    R.R.A. 4 July 2013 18: 41
    0
    Only Herods can copy ...
  • Akim
    Akim 4 July 2013 19: 02
    0
    Speaking of birds - i.e. about MiGs. The L-15 cabin is very reminiscent of the MiG-35, MiG-29U1 and J-10V! And all the same Yak-130. But better let the experts say - is there any noticeable similarity?
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 4 July 2013 23: 49
    0
    When there was a question of the survival of the "YAK" design bureau, neither the state, nor "civil society" was now HERE so critical of the design bureau was not heard! And now that the 130th went into production, who did it?
    And competition, especially a global thing, is necessary, so that they do not "relax" !!! hi
  • agent
    agent 8 July 2013 09: 05
    0
    The first photo shows residential buildings. People live right on the take-off.
  • Cyber7
    Cyber7 11 July 2013 21: 15
    0
    Quote: agent
    The first photo shows residential buildings. People live right on the take-off.

    Once lived in Kamchatka, in the urban-type settlement of Korf.
    So there the village and the runway were located on the same azimuth.
    At first it was hard not to sleep when the landing Yak-50s fly overhead 40 meters away.
    Then I got used to it.
    Everyone is getting used to it.

    Now everything is already wrong there.