Military Review

Fire hedgehog

27
History creating a prototype:


"... In 1944, the head of the armament brigade of the Tupolev Design Bureau A.V. Nadashkevich and the leading engineer S.I. Saveliev suggested using machine guns designed by G.Shpagin to attack enemy infantry columns. For this purpose, they designed a platform on which secured 88 PCA machines (11 rows of 8 trunks in each).

The whole system is called the "PPSh battery". Each machine had a magazine with 71 mm 7,62 cartridges. In a combat position, the battery was rigidly attached to the Tu-2 bomb bay. When attacking, the pilot opened the sash of the luggage compartment and, using a special sight, fired heavy fire at the enemy.
To recharge the platform with the PPSH down on the cables down.

Fire hedgehog


The decision to install such systems on two Tu-2S was made at a meeting with the Chief Marshal aviation A. A. Novikov October 10, 1944
Ten days later, Major-General of the IAS A.N. Tupolev addressed the request of the Chief Engineer of the Red Army Air Force, Colonel-General IAS A.K. Repin with a request to issue an order for the allocation of the number PCN sample 156 of the city with the prescribed number of disk stores and 180 cartridges to them.

In early February, the 1946 PPSh battery, which received the unofficial name “fire hedgehog”, passed flight tests at the test site. They showed her great efficiency. However, a powerful barrage of fire was short-lived, and the need to return to the base for reloading the machine guns nullified its advantages. As a result, it was recognized that it was more expedient to use small-caliber bombs placed in cassettes to destroy enemy manpower ... "



It must be admitted that this aircraft, although it was built in a single copy, was the only aircraft with the largest number of trunks.
Originator:
http://alternathistory.org.ua/ognennyi-ezh
27 comments
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  1. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 15 June 2013 08: 22 New
    14
    It seems to me that in reality it is not as effective as it seems. Although funny, for the first time I hear about this.
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 15 June 2013 08: 45 New
      13
      You are right, dear colleague Alexander! This was confirmed by tests. Despite a long debugging, it was not possible to achieve accuracy of aiming. The aircraft, when using this PPSh battery, is forced to fall to a height of 100-300 meters. Without armor protection, it becomes easily vulnerable to small arms, not to mention anti-aircraft weapons. If we take into account the traveling instability of the Tu-2 (which I only got rid of in new modifications by 1948) and a short-term, one-time salvo, then the inefficiency of this development becomes clear.
      1. Skipper
        Skipper 15 June 2013 15: 05 New
        0
        A modern analog of multilateralism from the Australians
        http://youtu.be/d8hlj4EbdsE
        it's http://youtu.be/wKlnMwuCZso
        1. luiswoo
          luiswoo 15 June 2013 19: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: Skipper
          A modern analog of multilateralism from the Australians
          http://youtu.be/d8hlj4EbdsE
          it's http://youtu.be/wKlnMwuCZso


          It is difficult to call this miracle-judo modern or even promising (except that in the form of the cunning of an anti-personnel mine) Since they did not accept her, and it seems they are not even going to take them into service. I suspect that because of the dubious ballistics and loading method (trunk shop - witty except from a technical point of view, but not practical).
          In modern times, if you need a high rate of fire, use the tools of the Gatling grandfather system :)
          1. soldier's grandson
            soldier's grandson 17 June 2013 16: 32 New
            0
            Germans hunted for this Katyusha
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. 225chay
        225chay 15 June 2013 23: 38 New
        0
        Quote: chaushevski
        nor ....

        Excuse me, this ... which "... ysebe", as you put it
        Wunder is shy to say (marvel of engineering) in which year was created if not a secret?
    3. Vldmr
      Vldmr 16 June 2013 09: 46 New
      0
      Americans want to do something like that. They suggest installing the Metal Storm system on an attack aircraft. And get the same crap and adjusted for progress in the accuracy of the fire, it’s not a bad fucking device :))
    4. atalef
      atalef 16 June 2013 14: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Fibrizio
      It seems to me that in reality it is not as effective as it seems. Although funny, for the first time I hear about this.

      Yes, different wunderwaffles were invented in the war. From an aircraft carrier - made from frozen sawdust and water, to bats with incendiary bombs.
  2. brr1
    brr1 15 June 2013 09: 18 New
    +2
    http://topwar.ru/11501-sistema-ppsh-ognennyy-ezh.html#comment-id-198713
    1. shpuntik
      shpuntik 15 June 2013 14: 52 New
      +2
      Yes, it would be necessary to introduce a repetition protection system on the site. Like "anti-plagiarism".
      And then it will turn out to be a groundhog day: every year the same news ... :-)
  3. avt
    avt 15 June 2013 10: 11 New
    -2
    Quote: Fibrizio
    It seems to me that in reality it is not as effective as it seems. Although funny

    Honestly, I didn’t understand the flight of thought, especially since it seems that Grandfather didn’t work for fools request You are right, it’s really just funny to put weapons with a GUN cartridge on the FRONT bomber request
    Quote: Gamdlislyam
    The aircraft, when using this PPSh battery, is forced to fall to a height of 100-300 meters. Without armor protection, it becomes easily vulnerable to small arms, not to mention anti-aircraft weapons.

    Owls request It is absolutely true, and even there is simply nothing to discuss here.
    1. smile
      smile 15 June 2013 13: 50 New
      +2
      avt
      And for some reason this flight of engineering thought reminded me of the "Shmetillo machine gun" in Port Arthur - ten magazine rifles on the same frame with a device that allows you to fire a volley and reload them simultaneously ... :))) well, those are not good they came up with life - there weren't enough machine guns ... and here ...
      1. dropout
        dropout 15 June 2013 14: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: smile
        And for some reason this flight of engineering reminded me


        Pig bar (with screw rushing) from a novel by Vadim Kozhevnikov.
        1. smile
          smile 15 June 2013 14: 36 New
          +4
          dropout
          Perhaps, but I personally saw photographs of such a design in the magazine "World of Technology, for Children" of the period of the Russo-Japanese War, though under a different name. By the way, do not rush to laugh at the name of the journal - the articles in it are in no way inferior to articles in VO in terms of the level of presentation and information content. illustrations are the rarest, not only technicians of the highest class are clearly working on writing, but also military consultants and military historians ... not at all for children. The peculiarity of the magazine is that there are simply no legends in it (on the contrary, they are often explained), there is no hurray-patriotism, and even more so there is no all-pro-nationality, it is patriotic .... though I am not able to understand how children read it, or what they look at. ... I ran into him in the library, which is managed by my friend, when she asked me to express my opinion about the fund ...
      2. avt
        avt 15 June 2013 14: 52 New
        0
        Quote: smile
        avt
        And for some reason this flight of engineering thought reminded me of the "Shmetillo machine gun" in Port Arthur - ten magazine rifles on the same frame with a device that allows you to fire a volley and reload them simultaneously ... :))) well, those are not good they came up with life - there weren't enough machine guns ... and here ...

        Yes, there, just out of despair, they used Chinese captured rifles, a completely justified use to increase the density of fire of one soldier, and it turned out! What is called a gol for invention is cunning. A pistol cartridge, not even a rifle cartridge, and this is not at 41, when, for example, a practically disposable Pegasus was pitted because of the lack of a full-fledged attack aircraft, and then there was enough wisdom not to sculpt wooden kamikaze, all the same in the 44th this disgrace was muddied.
      3. Mister X
        Mister X 16 June 2013 14: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: smile
        And for some reason this flight of engineering thought reminded me of the "Shmetillo machine gun" in Port Arthur

        Support!
        As they say, the goal of invention is cunning.
        The schematic diagram is similar: several infantry barrels and a single descent.
        The creation time for both samples is similar: war.

  4. misham
    misham 15 June 2013 11: 10 New
    0
    A pointless undertaking. Someone wanted to get the Stalin Prize or to learn the loot (as they say right now)
    PPSh-41 is effective at a distance of 200m. And the pistol cartridge is rather weak. And the store has 71 rounds. Although there are 88 trunks, I doubt that there would be any result. Such a giant as a Tu-2 at such a height (up to 200m) can be shot down (at least seriously damaged) by small arms fire, not to mention MZA. Where were the vaunted NKVD-schnicks and party-Soviet bodies. Why did not stop this senseless venture and waste of folk money at the stage of sketches and drawings. Nobody armed the American counterguerrilla ganships with such a stick as PPSh
    Against infantry and automotive equipment, specialized attack aircraft with normal weapons, or at worst something flying like the U-2 but with a pair of ShKAS - a normal rifle caliber, are much more effective.
    1. Barabas
      Barabas 15 June 2013 17: 06 New
      +6
      at that time it’s easy to cut down the Stalin Prize? Yes, you're kidding my friend!
      I don’t know about the dough, but to start exploring a new plot at a logging site for squandering folk money is easy!
    2. psdf
      psdf 15 June 2013 18: 26 New
      +5
      Quote: misham
      A pointless undertaking. Someone wanted to get the Stalin Prize or to learn the loot (as they say right now)

      Someone picking his nose - determines the effectiveness and feasibility, and designers have to conduct tests, describe, document the results.
  5. Tartary
    Tartary 15 June 2013 12: 00 New
    -3
    The whole system is called "PPSh battery." Each machine had a magazine with 71 rounds of 7,62 mm caliber.
    Ten days later, Major-General of the IAS A.N. Tupolev addressed the request of the Chief Engineer of the Red Army Air Force, Colonel-General IAS A.K. Repin with a request to issue an order for the allocation of the number PCN sample 156 of the city with the prescribed number of disk stores and 180 cartridges to them.


    They wrote to you? Read ...

    Caliber - 7,62 ...
    Cartridges ordered separately - 15.000 pcs.

    And what? From TT (pistol) or SVD - remained unsaid ...
    1. ded10041948
      ded10041948 15 June 2013 20: 57 New
      +1
      Reread the quote carefully. This is a standard PPSh and its stores and cartridges. Nothing but a cartridge for the TT machine gun could not shoot! There is another question: According to front-line soldiers, the PPSh store was not recommended to be charged by more than two-thirds, and this was only 48 rounds (the damned wedged and failed to eliminate this heinous disease).
  6. Pelican
    Pelican 15 June 2013 12: 34 New
    +1
    What about security? A cocked shutdown for the PCA was a frequent occurrence. And then vibration and overload.
  7. individual
    individual 15 June 2013 13: 13 New
    +6
    No wonder.
    It was 1944, the war demanded new unusual weapons. Searches and experiments were carried out on all ranges of developments. Apparently "Hedgehog" represents one of the dead-end developments.
    It is commendable that the search was ongoing, the real development of weapons and military equipment was colossal.
  8. Bosk
    Bosk 15 June 2013 13: 29 New
    +2
    Actually, I used to be sure that this plane passed the test in the 44th year ... maybe it was wrong. and at the expense of the PPSh battery ... an interesting idea, but this idea was more interesting when they tried to implement it on the TSh-1 and TSh-2 planes, and during the war this barrage of fire could be created with more modern (at that time) means .. .nu ​​there OF bomb cassettes ... missiles, well, you could try to mount the four ShKASS-s on the edge ... although using the TU-2 as an attack aircraft ... it's really overkill.
  9. pinecone
    pinecone 15 June 2013 15: 04 New
    +3
    One could still understand if such a decision was made in 1941. Despair. But to continue developing this, if I may say so, "system" and to test it after the end of the war, in February 1946, is the height of absurdity.
    1. avt
      avt 15 June 2013 16: 10 New
      0
      Quote: pinecone
      One could still understand if such a decision was made in 1941. From despair.

      Out of despair, Zhukov was ordered to bomb from 400 meters. Well, what result could be expected despite the fact that the German air defense was initially carried out by ground installations, naturally quick-firing. And then figure out what will happen to say with IL-4 with such a bombing of a tank column. So Gastello and his partner bombed during the day. And here you have to go even lower from the PPSh. Yes, in horizontal flight, almost not only in the small-caliber artillery zone, but under the shelling of the MP-38!
      Quote: Tartary
      And what? From TT (pistol) or SVD - remained unsaid ...

      No, well, it’s also impossible, seriously, what about a rifle cartridge for PPSh? If not, then at least a smiley would be put.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 16 June 2013 01: 51 New
        -1
        How was he there ... Gan-nip .. he is also a SHIP in Africa!
  10. Minuteman
    Minuteman 15 June 2013 21: 14 New
    +3
    The idea was like crazy nonsense. PPSh had a hit rate of 150 meters at best. Further it was necessary to lengthen the barrel.
    1. Aryan
      Aryan 16 June 2013 01: 10 New
      +1
      Yes, and decent weight only at one trunk ... I’m lucky to hold it in my hands, it will be something for my grandchildren and grandchildren to tell
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 16 June 2013 08: 52 New
        +3
        PPSh, without a store weighed 3,5kg. With a drum store - 5,4, with a sector - 3,8. So there is nothing particularly transcendental that it would be worth telling to grandchildren.
    2. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 16 June 2013 08: 49 New
      0
      In fact, a bullet fired from the PPSh could have killed at a distance of one and a half kilometers. The effective range of the PPSh was about 250m.
      But lengthening the barrel while maintaining the pistol cartridge will not do anything.
  11. pinecone
    pinecone 16 June 2013 05: 47 New
    -4
    The decision to install such systems on two Tu-2S was made at a meeting at the Chief of Aviation Marshal A. A. Novikov on October 10, 1944.

    October 1944 The troops of the 3rd Belorussian Front under the command of Army General Chernyakhovsky conduct an offensive in East Prussia. Thousands of columns of German refugees on the roads.
  12. Anti com
    Anti com 16 June 2013 20: 36 New
    0
    Very informative material! Once again confirms that we have more than enough ingenuity ...
  13. xomaNN
    xomaNN 16 June 2013 21: 13 New
    +2
    More like a partisan version of folk aircraft craftsmen :))
  14. Alf
    Alf 17 June 2013 21: 23 New
    0
    The idea is interesting, but we should not forget about the power of German air defense in the form of small-caliber automatic weapons. The attack aircraft was armored, but suffered heavy losses from 20-37 mm machine guns, the TU-2 was not armored, and it is difficult to control a 2-engine aircraft at an altitude of 200-300 meters.
  15. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 18 June 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    It’s just, apparently, from above, at the next meeting, they suddenly barked menacingly - “Where are the new ideas ?!”. So they suggested that the first took into my head.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 18 June 2013 15: 59 New
      0
      Not the right time. This unit was depicted already in 1944.