Askoria sniper rifle chambered with arrow-shaped bullets

27
In the article about arrow-shaped bullets, Ascorius’s sniper rifle was mentioned, which is a prototype weaponsdeveloped by Ukrainian designers. Despite the fact that the weapon officially remained only a prototype, there is information that this rifle was lit up in recent military conflicts, and even there are witnesses who saw this weapon live in the form of trophies. We will not rant about whether this weapon took part somewhere or not and whose side its trunk was facing, since the topic is quite slippery, but it’s necessary to figure out what kind of animal it is and what it is better or worse than the more usual patterns.

Askoria sniper rifle chambered with arrow-shaped bulletsThe main feature of the weapon, of course, is the ammunition. The funniest thing is that it is not known exactly what kind of ammunition is used in weapons, in most sources the information is very diverse, which backwards proves the “experimental” nature of this weapon. Apparently, the designers simply did not finally decide on the ammunition, which was to become the main weapon. Nevertheless, the cartridge that was developed by Dvoryaninov and Shiryaev in the 60 of the last century is most often mentioned. This cartridge had a total length of 124 millimeters and a weight of 47 grams. The cartridge case has a flange; the caliber of the boom compression elements is equal to 13,2 millimeters. The weight of the boom together with the caliber-increasing elements is 17,5 grams. The initial boom speed is about one and a half kilometers per second.



A notable feature is that the boom caliber increases not at the expense of plastic, but at the expense of the usual lead bullet in the shell, which has an opening for the boom in the center and is divided along two equal parts. Due to this, it was possible to use a rifled barrel without the risk of disrupting the projectile with rifling at a sufficiently high speed. In order for the arrow itself not to move inside the bullet, there are annular grooves on the arrow itself and the protrusions inside the divided bullet, thus, the arrow is securely fixed and its stall is excluded. After the missile projectile leaves the barrel of the weapon, the caliber-increasing elements are separated from the boom and just fall to the ground, while the boom itself continues to fly to the target at a sufficiently high speed, while having a huge direct shot range.

Having a huge flight speed, such an arrow is excellent for hitting moving targets, and the shooter can have minimal experience with such weapons for a successful hit, while in the hands of an experienced shooter a weapon with such speeds of projectile becomes a reliable and reliable means of hitting the enemy. It’s easy to imagine what a wound like an arrow would look like, but even this when designing an ammunition turned out to be small, the arrow has an incision on its body, which does not affect ballistics due to the high speed of movement, but if it hits even on an unprotected target, it causes the arrow to deform, turning the place of hitting literally mince.

But not shooting at the enemy's manpower is the main objective of weapons for such ammunition - too expensive a pleasure to shoot. Most often, such ammunition and weapons for them are developed for firing on lightly armored vehicles, how effectively this can be judged from the following results. At a distance of 600 meters, an arrow fired from the barrel of an Ascoria rifle pierces a steel sheet 50 mm thick. Well, now about the weapon itself.

The Ascoria sniper rifle is a sample made not quite in the usual layout. The weapon shop is located in the same place as the handle at an angle, which made it possible to reduce the length of the weapon and at the same time not cause inconvenience when shooting or reloading a rifle. True, this increased the thickness of the rifle, but, in my opinion, for this type of weapon it is not so critical. Much more interesting is that the weapon had the weight of the entire 7 kilogram, with the length of 1165 millimeters. In other words, such a sample can easily be carried by one person, and you can deliver a weapon wherever a person thinks of climbing. However, it was not without negative moments. The kinetic energy of the projectile is about 19,5 kJ, which creates significant returns when firing, and under the condition of a small weapon weight, such recoil becomes just an unbearable gunner. Apparently, some kind of trick is used to compensate for recoil when shooting, but that is not reliably known. The rifle is self-loading, automatics is built according to the scheme with removal of powder gases from the barrel bore; it is powered from detachable box magazines with a capacity from 5 to 10 cartridges.

It’s not hard to imagine what advantage a small squad will get with the support of a sniper armed with such weapons, here is the fight against lightly armored vehicles and the defeat of enemy personnel, but it all comes down to the cost of producing such ammunition, well, at least according to the official version. In my opinion, the real cost of such ammunition with arrow-shaped bullet is greatly exaggerated and with sufficient initial investment of funds for mass production, the cost of cartridge with arrow-shaped bullet will hardly exceed the cost of a conventional rifle cartridge more than doubled.

It is noteworthy that there is information that both Russia and China produce similar ammunition in small batches, which means that serial models of weapons for ammunition with arrow-shaped bullets are on the way. The only question is whether this time the handgun will transfer to a new type of ammunition, since attempts to distribute ammunition with arrow-shaped bullet have been unsuccessfully undertaken for more than half a century.
27 comments
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  1. +8
    8 May 2013 09: 25
    Everything is very interesting, but nothing is said about the accuracy of this weapon. It seems to me that in the process of separating the boom from the squeezing elements, a serious destabilizing disturbance will occur that affects the spread.
    1. +4
      8 May 2013 09: 46
      and what can we say about accuracy until detailed data on rifle tests appears? Still, the information is currently classified.
      The cost of ammunition is a weak excuse. So I completely agree with the author. Thank you for the article.
    2. Larus
      +4
      8 May 2013 17: 49
      The rifle will not be machine gun, it will not shoot in bursts. Regarding the separation, these elements will fall off as soon as they fly out of the barrel and serious problems should not arise, but they correctly said above that there is no specific data yet.
      1. +2
        8 May 2013 19: 13
        Quite right, centrifugal force will open the arrow immediately after departure from the trunk. Here, only next to the construction site I would not stand wink
  2. avt
    +6
    8 May 2013 09: 43
    Today, the author gave us a day of PTR smile
  3. Beck
    +6
    8 May 2013 10: 41
    In fact, all sorts of cuts and cavities in the pool leading to defomation of the bullet when it enters the body and causing extensive damage, such as Doom-dum bullets, were prohibited by the Hague Peace Conference in 1899. And since then they have not been used in hostilities, even in world wars.

    In general, humanity is strange. Prohibited the use of bullets such as Doom-doom as inhumane and violating the laws and customs of warfare and at the same time armed with cluster bombs, volumetric explosions, chemical weapons, nuclear weapons. As if any other killing could be humane. There is no difference for me - they will kill me with a Doom-dum bullet or a nuclear bomb. I will get a torn shoulder injury from a Doom-dum bullet or a nuclear burn of the whole body.
  4. -3
    8 May 2013 10: 42
    Candid sound, sometimes mixed with fraud. And isn’t it embarrassing to post this on a site claiming to be analytical?
    The whole article consists of a continuous BVS (the grandmother in the yard said) with 0 (zero) of actual factual material.

    The initial boom speed is about one and a half kilometers per second.

    How can you spread such nonsense at all? The author imagines what the weight of gunpowder should be to obtain a similar speed for such a heavy bullet? What will be the barrel wear at such a speed. What a wild return will give shooting 17,5g at a speed of 1,5 km / sec.
    At a distance of 600 meters, an arrow fired from the barrel of the Ascoria rifle pierces through 50 mm thick steel sheet

    pffffff ..
    After the projectile leaves the barrel of the weapon, the caliber-increasing elements are separated from the boom and elementarily fall to the ground

    This only works fine in smoothbore. It is easy to estimate on a piece of paper at what speed these "elements" will fly in different directions, hitting others. The bullet rotates and rotates quite quickly ... and these elements will not fly forward. About the option when they hit right into the rifling, block and the bullet will break the barrel, it is better not to remember at all.
    1. +7
      8 May 2013 11: 26
      Let us leave the question that skeptics can share their share less impulsively. As proof of the above figures, I can give one more sample, better known. Steyr IWS 2000 with 15.2mm Steyr APFSDS cartridge. The initial flight speed of the boom 1450 meters per second, the weight of the boom 20-35 grams. On 1000 meters, breaking through 40 mm of homogeneous armor, that is, on 600 meters, the same 50 mm will pull easily. I will not give my article about this weapon as an example, because you do not believe it by default, but I can cite Maxim Popenker’s article http://world.guns.ru/sniper/large-caliber-sniper-rifles/at/steyr-iws- 2000-r.html


      And here is the expansion of caliber-increasing elements:


      And how can you answer? wink
      1. -6
        8 May 2013 11: 54
        What a shame.
        We read your link.
        System consisting of smoothbore self-loading rifle and a special cartridge with a sub-caliber feathered bullet was called Steyr IWS 2000.

        Do not disgrace anymore. Okay
        1. +8
          8 May 2013 11: 58
          Ok, I will not disgrace myself, here are arrow-shaped bullets and a rifled sample of weapons http://world.guns.ru/assault/at/steyr-acr-r.html pay attention to "The barrel of the weapon is rifled, with very shallow cuts for giving SPEL additional stabilization "

          No, I certainly understand that everything looks too fantastic, but the facts remain facts, even if someone does not believe in them smile
  5. +3
    8 May 2013 11: 31
    An article about Dyatlov’s group indicated that tourists could be killed by such bullets.
  6. +4
    8 May 2013 11: 56
    I won’t talk about swept-like ones in a metal loner, but cartridges with a sub-caliber bullet in a plastic two-part shell were developed for 70 cal. back in the 308s, but did not receive distribution due to insufficient accuracy. Well, as for speed, the limit seems to be 1700 m / s.
  7. -2
    8 May 2013 12: 10
    Quote: scrabler
    Ok, I will not disgrace myself, here are arrow-shaped bullets and a rifled sample of weapons http://world.guns.ru/assault/at/steyr-acr-r.html pay attention to "The barrel of the weapon is rifled, with very shallow cuts for giving SPEL additional stabilization "

    Read for yourself what you throw. This is not funny already, but very stupid:
    The Steyr cartridge is a cylindrical plastic sleeve with a length of about 45 mm. The sleeve has no flanges or grooves for extraction. SPEL in the form of a feathered tungsten arrow has a length of 41mm, diameter is about 1.5mm and weight is about 0.66 grams.

    Is there any difference between a spit with gram arrows and a 17,5 gram piece?
    Absolutely different loads on both the weapon itself and the bullets. Again, the armor-piercing arrows weighing 0,66 grams raises some doubts.
    1. +10
      8 May 2013 12: 55
      Oh hedgehogs ... So the pressure issue is equal to the 4416 bar. As I understand it, you do not believe in speed? Here's an example of the speed of a bullet with the usual design .14-222. The speed of a bullet in it is equal to 1360 meters per second, I think 140 meters per second sorry, and nothing, the bullet does not fall from the rifling and the rifles themselves are quite alive after the shot. Whether the barrel of the weapon can withstand the pressure indicated above. But we take a cartridge with a classic bullet design, albeit an ultra-high-speed 5.6x57 RWS pressure 4400 bar and lo and behold, the barrels are intact too!
      Well, now let's calculate the step of the rifling for Ascoria on the basis of the Greenhill formula by the most primitive calculation. We need the Greenhill constant, which we take for 180, since the bullet speed is more than 850 meters per second. Need the length of the bullet, then take the length of the part that is in contact with the barrel. In the image of the cartridge it is easy to calculate that it will be about 18 millimeters, a little more, but we will not bother, we are not designing a weapon now. Now you need a caliber of ammunition, but we take it back on the elements that increase the caliber, that is, the 13,2 of a millimeter. Now we substitute T = (K * D2) / L into the formula
      We get the following (180 * (13,2 * 13,2)) / 18 = 1742,4 mm, that is, the groove pitch in the trunk will be ~ 1,75 meters. And this is despite the fact that the Greenhill constant is chosen incorrectly for us, it should be even more for such speeds, and in general such calculations are not suitable for such bullet designs. So that's what I'm all about. Can you imagine the step of rifling the 1,75 meter? And if real it should be more than 2,5 meters? That is, there are lots, but their step is so big because of the high speed of the bullet that in the short barrel someone can decide that these lots are generally straight. You could dig deeper and find the real values ​​that the rifle should have, but even such a primitive calculation shows what I wanted to show you.
  8. +2
    8 May 2013 12: 25
    shoot from 12.7 14.5 20 mm you never know what is wound there in the butt
  9. -3
    8 May 2013 13: 24
    Quote: scrabler
    Oh hedgehogs ... So the pressure issue is equal to 4416 bar. As I understand it, you do not believe in speed? Here is an example of the speed of a bullet with a conventional design .14-222.
    <skip baby talk>
    You could dig deeper and find the real values ​​that the rifle barrel should have, but even such a primitive calculation shows what I wanted to show you.

    14-222 is small-caliber special bullet with a bullet weight of 0,74 g If you give examples, first get to know him yourself. They got it, I’m already talking to the retarded.
    You don’t seem to understand that in mechanics a linear increase in size does not give a linear increase in performance, but more often the other way around. And if the feathered sub-caliber arrow for the tank works, then after reducing the size by 10 times, it turns into insanity. Count the weight of gunpowder needed to disperse in a rifled barrel a bullet weighing 17,5 grams to your size.
    1. +6
      8 May 2013 13: 32
      The retarded one cited real-life examples for you, played with numbers, but can you give something like that as proof of your innocence besides "I'm smart, but you're not"? Give a calculation that will prove you are right. Because this dialogue is already a little tiresome.
      1. -4
        8 May 2013 14: 12
        Quote: scrabler
        The retarded one cited real-life examples for you, played with numbers, but can you give something like that as proof of your innocence besides "I'm smart, but you're not"? Give a calculation that will prove you are right. Because this dialogue is already a little tiresome.

        I showed you that all your examples are outright stupidity. Trying to juggle the facts, but with the slightest mental effort and minutes of viewing your proofs (which you did not read and which directly disprove you) all your constructions cease in ashes.
        "One can ask so many questions that even 100 wise men will not answer!"
        (c) Lenin
        1. +3
          8 May 2013 14: 29
          Oh really? At first you didn’t believe in speed and armor-piercing, I gave you a smooth-bore sample confirming my words. You did not believe in the existence of rifling, I gave you a sample with rifling back, showing that a sub-caliber bullet-arrow can even move along the grooves even in a plastic cup, but here we are not dealing with plastic, which allows us to apply the above calculations, although I agree that their use in this case is not true. However, these calculations showed the reality and speed of the bullet-jib and rifled barrel.
          If you already go to nonsense, then only this one phrase:
          Quote: report4
          Calculate the amount of gunpowder needed for acceleration in a rifled bullet barrel weighing 17,5 grams to your values.

          Speaks about your competence in the question, because the powder is different, and not only divided into smoky and smokeless. Maybe it's not enough to show yourself from the best?
          And if you already quote, then bring them in their original form:
          It is surprisingly easy to ask questions sometimes; only there is one saying (it is impolite and rude), which speaks about such questions. From the song you can’t throw out the words, I remind you: one du_r_ak may ask more than ten clever ones answer. (Vladimir Ilyich Lenin)
  10. +4
    8 May 2013 14: 11
    In the early nineties of the last century, in Ukraine at the KBST enterprise under the leadership of
    Professor Alekseenko was created unique in its kind large-caliber
    Ascoria sniper rifle, caliber 13,2 mm.

    The uniqueness of the rifle lies in the fact that the cartridge from
    French machine gun Hotchkiss model 1917 year.
    The sleeve and the original caliber were taken from him.
    And as a striking element, a sub-caliber arrow is used with a detachable plastic pallet - similar to the ammunition developed by Dvoryaninov and Shiryaev.

    According to a retired major who passed Chechnya, he saw this rifle in the Caucasus.
    Although officially it is not produced and was not adopted for service.
    Here is his quote: “Arrow material: from ordinary, hardened to alloyed with chrome and vanadium with an additive
    tungsten steel.
    The military option was not officially adopted due to the high cost, but it is known
    that was produced and is being produced in small batches in various versions both here and in China. ”

    Ammunition Weight (g) 47
    Ammunition Length (mm) 124
    Caliber (mm) 13,2
    Bullet Weight (g) 17,5
    Initial bullet speed (m / s) 1500
    Maximum pressure (kg / cm2) 4500
    1. edge731
      +1
      12 May 2013 12: 48
      Quote: Mister X




      According to a retired major who passed Chechnya, he saw this rifle in the Caucasus.
      Although officially it is not produced and was not adopted for service.
      Here is his quote: “Arrow material: from ordinary, hardened to alloyed with chrome and vanadium with an additive
      tungsten steel.



      Well, this major, straight special - by eye, in the field was able to determine the composition of the arrow., Fantasy ...
  11. Mr. Truth
    +1
    8 May 2013 15: 02
    Arrow-shaped ammunition is the future, sooner or later they will come to them.
  12. +4
    8 May 2013 15: 02
    The recoil at such a mass and bullet speed should be shorter than that of a 14,5mm PTR, given the difference in mass of the rifles. In my opinion, it is better to use a plastic pallet to reduce the parasitic mass of the bullet and, accordingly, recoil.
    1. +3
      8 May 2013 15: 14
      Here, apparently, it was plastic that was abandoned precisely because of the rifled barrel of the weapon, the bullet could fall off the rifling, and this is not good, although modern polymers could solve this problem.
      1. +2
        9 May 2013 02: 14
        Polymers are already used to form leading belts on the shells of aircraft and anti-aircraft guns of some Western companies, the speed of these shells has already exceeded 1100 m / s.
  13. -3
    8 May 2013 16: 30
    Quote: scrabler
    Oh really? At first you didn’t believe in speed and armor-piercing, I gave you a smooth-bore sample confirming my words. You did not believe in the existence of rifling, I gave you a sample with rifling back, showing that a sub-caliber bullet-arrow can even move along the grooves even in a plastic cup, but here we are not dealing with plastic, which allows us to apply the above calculations, although I agree that their use in this case is not true. However, these calculations showed the reality and speed of the bullet-jib and rifled barrel.

    You yourself understand what you are carrying? Read my first post again and again. The rifle you are describing is someone's drunken nonsense reprinted by you as true, the same nonsense as "knives that cut the barrel of a tank" and so on. Ear noodles passed by word of mouth over a glass of vodka for people like you. What's the point of bringing armor-piercing for anti-material smooth-bore guns and information on rifling from high-speed bunches ... These are completely different concepts of weapons.

    Quote: scrabler

    Speaks about your competence in the question, because the powder is different, and not only divided into smoky and smokeless. Maybe it's not enough to show yourself from the best?

    You are killing me gunpowder is a propelling explosive this is the very essence of the concept, i.e. any fast-burning propellant is, by definition, gunpowder. If you do not understand the definitions, then it is not at all clear why you are climbing into the wilds of those inaccessible to you. Learn the materiel.
    1. +4
      8 May 2013 17: 13
      Well, do not pereinachivayte. The sample from Shtaer is a CWS, and you call it a cannon. Please note that the boom from Steyr IWS 2000 has the following parameters: diameter 5,5 millimeter, weight 20-35 grams, apparently depending on the version. In our case, the arrow has approximately the same diameter, judging by the image, and the weight is 17,5 grams. Speed ​​1450 and 1500 meters per second, respectively. In the first case there are no rifling, in the second their step is very large.
      If you don’t convince you even here, I don’t even know if it makes sense to continue the conversation with you, because it’s already obvious trolling.
      And about the powder, knowing the speed and weight of the bullet are you going to name the brand of gunpowder and its weight? Are you not ashamed to expose yourself to a clown? I understand that the Internet is suffering, I screwed up, changed my nickname and was clean again, but still. I am still waiting for specific examples from you, figures, calculations that will show your knowledge of the equipment.
      1. -3
        8 May 2013 18: 01
        Quote: scrabler
        Well, don’t overdo it. The given sample from Staer is KSV, and you call it a straight gun.

        Talk to you like with my cat. He seems to be looking, but there is no thought in his eyes.
        Bring some kind of nonsense as "arguments". Merge one by one. Not ashamed? Wake up already.
        Well, then let’s real facts about shooting a rifle from Ascoria, if this is not the result of the creativity of your brain, decomposed from booze. I understand that you don't give a damn about the glory of a p-ball, but have a conscience.
        1. +1
          8 May 2013 18: 40
          laughing No, well, it becomes ridiculous. Also in alcoholism accused drinks I repeat:
          Quote: scrabler
          I am still waiting for specific examples from you, figures, calculations that will show your knowledge of the equipment.

          But the language of talking is not a matter for the male.
          PS I have no conscience, I use it wink
          1. 0
            9 May 2013 13: 09
            Quote: scrabler

            Talk to you like with my cat. He seems to be looking, but there is no thought in his eyes.
            Bring some kind of nonsense as "arguments". Merge one by one. Not ashamed? Wake up already.

            What kind of troll-spit? I'm sick of you.
  14. a boat
    +4
    8 May 2013 18: 06
    again, another dead-born offspring of gunsmiths of Ukraine (as always there is no money! It’s not so expensive for us!) again they’ll salute over the hill
  15. -5
    8 May 2013 19: 27
    Quote: scrabler
    laughing No, well, it becomes ridiculous. Also in alcoholism accused drinks I repeat:
    Quote: scrabler
    I am still waiting for specific examples from you, figures, calculations that will show your knowledge of the equipment.

    Do you understand what you say? You propose to count what, I don’t know what is with an unknown cartridge and an unknown barrel. Have you already quoted Lenin? You claim that there is a rifle, you prove that it is real, otherwise the cheap claims with "Russell's Kettle" are already pretty boring.
    1. +1
      8 May 2013 19: 56
      The points in the figures and calculations: why can not be the above armor-piercing; why can not be the above speeds, and so on with what you were there did not agree.
  16. +3
    8 May 2013 20: 35
    Yes, they were indulged in this garbage, almost all until it justifies itself !!
  17. +2
    9 May 2013 02: 18
    The KBST company, which has earned this rifle for several years, rested in a Bose. Production and scientific research were terminated a year before bankruptcy, as they did not have further prospects. The project was considered stillborn ...
  18. +1
    9 May 2013 04: 51
    Wow, a rifle with a caliber projectile .. cartridge!
  19. +2
    9 May 2013 08: 04
    Quote: smirnov
    Quite right, centrifugal force will open the arrow immediately after departure from the trunk. Here, only next to the construction site I would not stand wink


    And there is nothing to do nearby, hide behind the shooter's back, otherwise you will get separating elements "in the face of the face." laughing
  20. ramsi
    +4
    9 May 2013 14: 04
    the design is really strange: to accelerate such a fool to such a speed that right away, most of it is discarded ... And then, if it is the plumage, then why do we need rotation - only to drop the ballast? But the plumage prevents rotation and these grooves will also slow down, especially if the arrow is light
  21. 0
    9 May 2013 14: 48
    The cost of ammunition in mass production can be significantly reduced. In addition, the striking element can be of a different shape, length and weight. You can make a cartridge with a sub-caliber bullet that is suitable for existing weapons, and thereby expand the scope of its application. Such experiments have already been carried out. but more extensive research is required (and funding too)
    1. 0
      10 May 2013 14: 31
      Such experiments have already been conducted, but more extensive research is required (and funding too)
      --
      Can you imagine how much this money will cost? More extensive research at whose expense?
  22. 0
    10 May 2013 14: 29
    There is no sense in such exoticism. It’s cheaper to buy a good rifle under a serial cartridge. I can’t even imagine the cost of each shot, the goal should be a general or higher.
    1. 0
      10 May 2013 18: 42
      In general terms, such a cartridge is an ordinary cartridge case and a usual charge of gunpowder. The bullet is not so intricate at all, someone just fools your head. The bullet is something like a piece of nail inserted into a plastic cork, and the whole cartridge assembly will cost less than those that are currently in service. Why give the infantryman a good expensive cartridge? Anyway, he will drink or lose.
  23. Simonov
    +1
    13 May 2013 12: 29
    [quote = report4] You’re frank, sometimes mixed with fraud. And isn’t it embarrassing to post this on a site claiming to be analytical?
    The whole article consists of a continuous BVS (the grandmother in the yard said) with 0 (zero) of actual factual material.

    [quote] The initial boom speed of about one and a half kilometers per second. [/ quote]
    How can you spread such nonsense at all? The author imagines what the weight of gunpowder should be to obtain a similar speed for such a heavy bullet? What will be the barrel wear at such a speed. What a wild return will give shooting 17,5g at a speed of 1,5 km / sec.

    I'll add a little more. After separation, the plastic shell gets an unpredictable trajectory - "shrapnel cloud". A cloud of dust, soil, snow will rise in front of the rifle (see as appropriate). No need for acoustic systems for sniper detection - after the shot, the position will be visible at a glance.
  24. machine gunner
    0
    13 May 2013 13: 54
    in the first photo, the ammunition is not from this rifle at all !!!!
  25. Simonov
    0
    14 May 2013 15: 55
    It seems that this "tsar-ruzho" never fired at all, but was used exclusively in information warfare as a "secret miracle".
  26. machine gunner
    0
    15 May 2013 13: 45
    with such a bullet weight (approximately), we developed an ammunition for a 30mm gun.
  27. The comment was deleted.