Military Review

Kharkov modernization of military equipment

77
Everyone knows very well Kharkiv Engineering Design Bureau for them. Morozov as a KB with a large history in production tanks, everyone is also well aware of the design bureau’s innovations - these are combat units like the Oplot tank, the Yatagan tank, the T-80UD tank, the ATLM repair and recovery vehicle, the BTR4 armored personnel carrier, the DOZOR-B armored personnel carrier, the BTR-3U armored personnel carrier. But, besides this, the Kharkov Design Bureau makes excellent upgrades to equipment that has long served its purpose. I want to introduce you to this technique.


So,Heavy combat infantry vehicle BMT-72 - modernization of the T-72







Heavy combat infantry vehicles (BMT) are intended for combat operations as part of tank units and subunits, being with them in the same battle formations, as well as independently. In this case, the paratroopers can fire from the car or parachute and continue the battle on foot. The use of BMT, possessing weapons, protection and maneuverability, the same as that of tanks, provides close cooperation on the battlefield of tanks and gunners, paratroopers with the most complete use of the strengths of these types of troops. The fire control system (FCS) and the BMT’s armament ensure the detection and destruction of enemy armored vehicles and infantry as effectively as the tank control system.

BMT can be used in the offensive and defense, in the conduct of large-scale hostilities and in the zone of local conflicts or in the conduct of peacekeeping operations.

Tank T-55AGM





In order to improve all the main combat, technical and operational characteristics, the following has been established on it:
• Engine compartment with engine 5TDFM
• Advanced chassis
• Automated motion control system with steering wheel
• Additional passive protection, built-in dynamic protection, a system of optical-electronic countermeasures, new fire-fighting equipment
• Modern fire control system with dual control from the commander’s seat.
• Automatic loader
• Gated anti-aircraft installation
• At the request of the customer, the gun can be either a caliber 125 mm or 120 mm.

Tank T-55M8A2 Typhoon





KMDB together with Desarrollos Industriales Casanave SA has developed a modernization project for the Peruvian T-55 tank, called the T-55M8A2 Typhoon. This upgrade allows you to bring the tank T-55 to modern tanks on its main characteristics.

Modernization of the armored personnel carrier BTR-50





The aim of modernization is to increase the characteristics of firepower and mobility. During the modernization of weapons, one of two variants of the combat module is installed, consisting of:
• 30 mm automatic cannon
• 7,62 mm machine gun
• anti-tank missile system (ATGM) and automatic grenade launcher.

During the modernization of the power plant, the power plant with a Russian-made B-6 engine is replaced with a Ukrainian-made power unit with a UTD-20 engine.

During the modernization of the power transmission (produced in conjunction with the modernization of the power plant), the planetary gearbox with the GOP is installed instead of the one installed with the B-6 engines. As a result of modernization is achieved:
• increasing firepower and expanding tactical capabilities;
• reduced fuel consumption;
• increase in power density.

Modernization of armored personnel carriers BTR-70 and BTR-80



The modernization of the power plant and weapons of the vehicle BTR-70.

Instead of the Russian-made ZMZ-4905 carburetor engines, the UTD-20 diesel was installed in Ukraine. Instead of a KPVT machine gun of 14,5 caliber mm, a KBA-2 gun of 30 mm caliber is installed.

The installation of the four-stroke six-cylinder V-shaped diesel engine UTD-20 allowed to improve the mobility characteristics and to modernize the power compartment of the fleet of vehicles BTR-70, which are in service with Ukraine, by the enterprises of Ukraine.

Comprehensive tests conducted at the KMDB test site confirmed the effectiveness of the mobility characteristics of an armored personnel carrier with a UTD-20 diesel engine, while all other characteristics of the BTR-70 remained unchanged. On 25% increased power reserve at the same volumes of fuel due to a significant reduction in fuel consumption.

Increased vehicle permeability in heavy road conditions due to an increase in engine torque.

KMDB im.A.A. Morozova has developed and tested an efficient cooling system on the machine, which allows it to operate at high temperatures (up to + 55 ° C) without any restrictions.

Installing a KBA-2 X-gun of the 30 caliber mm allows you to increase the range and effectiveness of shooting.

Modernization of the multipurpose light armored tractor MT-LB



State Enterprise “Kharkiv Engineering Design Bureau named after A.A. Morozova ”proposes the modernization of the MTLB to ensure effective firepower through the installation of a weapon module, including the 30-mm cannon, 7,62-mm machine gun, 2 sight, as well as a smoke / aerosol curtain system.

Also, the Malyshev Plant is offered for serial production a program for the modernization of T-54, T-55, T-59, T-62 tanks, which are in service with many countries.

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  1. svp67
    svp67 4 May 2013 07: 57
    +2
    All of the above shows that the main activity of the Malyshevites is the modernization of the Soviet legacy ... The question is, the price of modernization? Will it be less than the price of a new model of military equipment, which can be upgraded in the future ... in contrast to the already "modernized" one, and in which this potential has already been almost fully used ...
    In this regard, I was interested in the modernization project of the 70 armored personnel carrier using the BMP1,2 - UTD20 engine and a new combat module, which is clearly aimed both at the domestic market of Ukraine and the external one. I think it would be nice for our specialists to present their project for the modernization of this machine to the foreign market ...
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 4 May 2013 09: 51
      13
      Quote: svp67
      The question is, the cost of modernization? Will it be less than the price of a new model of military equipment, which can be upgraded in the future ... in contrast to the already "modernized" one, and in which this potential has already been almost fully used ..

      not every state can afford to buy the latest models of armored vehicles. request T-55 is in service in more than 40 countries around the world. These countries are far from the richest. and this (and other similar) modernization will increase the level of combat and operational characteristics of tanks for a relatively low price
      here is the Iraqi version of the modernization of the T-55 "Enigma"
      1. Ilyukha
        Ilyukha 5 May 2013 07: 58
        +1
        Where is the photo of the T-55 "Enigma" from? In the background, the tank is clearly not Iraq, pine trees do not grow there.
    2. self-propelled
      self-propelled 4 May 2013 09: 56
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      I think it would be nice for our specialists to present their project for the modernization of this machine to the foreign market ...

      so it seems to be
      Modernized KBTM T-55

      and more radical

      The deep modernization of the T-55, proposed by KBTM, the tank is equipped with a new loading mechanism in a recessed niche and an 125mm caliber gun, the hull reservation is radically strengthened, a couple of road wheels are added.
      1. svp67
        svp67 4 May 2013 10: 12
        +1
        Quote: self-propelled
        so it seems to be

        modernized Т55, as it is not sad, but will no longer be able to fully fulfill the role of MBT. In general, I talked about the modernization of BTR70 sold abroad
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 4 May 2013 10: 19
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          In general, I talked about the modernization of BTR70 sold abroad

          I beg your pardon. apparently did not understand.

          Quote: svp67
          modernized T55, as it is not sad, but will no longer be able to fully fulfill the role of MBT

          as the saying goes, "fish without fish and cancer" smile
    3. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 09: 56
      11
      The Mongoose-2 BMP based on MTLB is bought by the countries of Indochina and tropical Asia (Malaysia), because it crawls well on their terrain .. There is not only a combat module, but also reinforced armor and mine protection. Well, in general, they are satisfied with the price-quality ratio
      1. bask
        bask 5 May 2013 09: 00
        +6
        Quote: Akim
        MP "Mongoose-2" on the basis of MTLB is bought by the countries of Indochina and tropical Asia

        I read, komenty. And not in the article is not mentioned in the comments, BTR-T64.
        The only BTR-T from the tank body, with the full layout of the MTO.
        In Russia, for 20 years from the moment in 1994 the creation of the BTR-T ((T-555) 0 and BMO-T was manufactured using the base chassis of the T-72 tank without reworking the hull!
        In addition to the roof and the fighting compartment. An armored box-type superstructure was installed in the area of ​​the fighting compartment and the control compartment.
        form, the walls of which together with the housing of the control compartment
        form a habitable compartment.
        Crew, commander, driver and squad 7 soldiers ((flamethrowers)))
        In Russia, a car with a lump input-output, a full-fledged BTR-T, did not appear.
        BTR-T64 Ukraine
        1. Akim
          Akim 5 May 2013 09: 28
          +6
          Quote: bask
          I read, komenty. And not in the article is not mentioned in the comments, BTR-T64.

          This early version is called BMPV-64. Cheaper than BMPT-64. Here it is upgraded last year on Tank Day
          1. bask
            bask 5 May 2013 16: 37
            0
            Quote: Akim
            then the early version is called BMPV-64. Cheaper than BMPT-64

            It’s not the name of the BMP / BTR-T business. It’s more correct to call it this way. The main team, as a private initiative, continues to improve this model-direction.
            We have a PR campaign in Russia called BMPT. (((They even distorted the original meaning of the name, instead of BMP-T (heavy, supporting tanks.)))
            There is no information about the BTR / BMP-T. And the T-54/55/62/72 hulls continue to be scrapped. The main re-arrangement, the nanca has already been tested at KhBTRZ.
            Or create your own technology. I think they already exist, but in the metal, someone is not going to create them.
            The design of the nose of the BMPV-64

        2. Akim
          Akim 5 May 2013 09: 31
          +4
          BMPT-64 at the end of last summer passed the first field tests. They even wanted to show it on "Perspective 2012", but there was a conflict between the director of KHBTRZ and "Ukroboronprom"
        3. Akim
          Akim 5 May 2013 09: 39
          +1
          That year, a model was carried to the Indians on the basis of the T-54/55 (BMPV-55)
          1. bask
            bask 5 May 2013 16: 49
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            That year, a model was carried to the Indians on the basis of the T-54/55 (B

            Not a bit off topic. But engineering thought is quick-witted ((which Russian engineers have always been famous for)) where is it? It is clear that the owners of the traders are private traders. And the main thing for them is profit.
            How to make a wheeled MPAP from an M113 armored personnel carrier.
            Mrap, homemade; bronikorpus from BTR M113, wheeled base, from the truck .....

    4. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 4 May 2013 10: 08
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      In this regard, I was interested in the modernization project of the 70 armored personnel carrier using the BMP1,2 - UTD20 engine and a new combat module, which is clearly aimed both at the domestic market of Ukraine and the external one. I think it would be nice for our specialists to present their project for the modernization of this machine to the foreign market ...

      Kurganmashzavod is engaged in the modernization of BMP-2 and BMP-3. Among other things, the BMP-2 is equipped with a UTD-23 engine with 400 horseshoes, and the BMP-3 has a UTD-32T engine (660 hp). http://www.kurganmash.ru/
      I think this is not a problem for other factories either; there would be a desire for the military to purchase this equipment.
      And to upgrade the BTR-70 while the BTR-82 is being purchased for the army, and even on the eve of the BTR’s purchases on the basis of a single platform, it probably doesn’t make sense (except for an outside buyer)
      1. svp67
        svp67 4 May 2013 10: 14
        +1
        Quote: Bad_gr
        And to upgrade the BTR-70 while the BTR-82 is being purchased for the army, and even on the eve of the BTR’s purchases on the basis of a single platform, it probably doesn’t make sense (except for an outside buyer)

        What I’m talking about. We can carry out such modernization faster and better, using BTR80 components and assemblies
    5. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 5 May 2013 12: 39
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      All of the above shows that the main activity of the Malyshevites is the modernization of the Soviet legacy ...


      Each combat vehicle designed in the USSR has the potential for modernization, and most importantly - an economic niche. Even the T-55 will fight for itself wherever in Samali (or who is fighting there now) if it is equipped with modern units. And the price ... it will not be more expensive than a new tank, and it will only be inferior to purely modern models.
  2. denisey
    denisey 4 May 2013 08: 16
    +6
    The advertisement is good. The question is different when when the Kharkov Design Bureau and many others reunite creating the defense industry complex that will protect us from Europodesia of amerodemocracy
    1. Alexander D.
      Alexander D. 5 May 2013 21: 21
      0
      Well, reunited UVZ with the Leningrad Design Bureau. Tell me where is the famous Leningrad Design Bureau, in which all the heavy tanks of the USSR and the famous T-80 were created?
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 5 May 2013 22: 44
        0
        Quote: Alexander D.
        Well, reunited UVZ with the Leningrad Design Bureau.

        And when did they manage to reunite them?
        The Leningrad Design Bureau has sunk into oblivion, even under Gorbachev, during perestroika.
        And UVZ at that time survived only thanks to the Indian contract. Production under one roof began to be assembled much later.
  3. Zomanus
    Zomanus 4 May 2013 08: 59
    +1
    The technique of a country hostile to us ... It is time to begin to perceive Ukraine in this vein. So as not to get a surprise like the Georgian.
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 4 May 2013 09: 23
      +8
      then in this vein you need to perceive ALL countries of the world
    2. tttttt
      tttttt 4 May 2013 09: 37
      16
       Zomanus  Today, 08:59 AM

      The technique of a country hostile to us ... It is time to begin to perceive Ukraine in this vein. So as not to get a surprise like the Georgian.


      No, why? Kharkiv residents work, well done, they think, old people are pulling up young people. Given the utter ruin in the defense industry, they survive as best they can, despite all the efforts of the authorities to trample and crush under themselves. Kharkov is traditionally strong with engineering personnel. In all of Ukraine there are not as many qualified technical universities as in Kharkov. The intellectual capital of Ukraine. And people in Kharkov are good, mostly Russians. And the distance to the Russian border is not more than 30 kilometers, and to the large Russian city of Belgorod, 70 kilometers in a straight line. So do not talk about Georgia please, this is a Russian city, Slobozhanshchina.
      1. tarks
        tarks 5 May 2013 12: 01
        0
        It’s a pity that they trampled Kushnaryov. He was careless. It is good that at least some islands of education and production have been preserved. The rest of Ukraine makes a painful impression.
      2. German
        German 5 May 2013 15: 07
        +1
        all of Yu.V Ukraine is essentially the South of Russia. Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye Donetsk, Lugansk, Kharkov .... this is the South of Russia and it is settled by people from the middle lane ... in any case, very many have roots in Russia!
  4. gggif
    gggif 4 May 2013 09: 03
    0
    of it- sweetie ...
  5. Yemelya
    Yemelya 4 May 2013 09: 04
    +6
    From the T-55 to the T-55AMG there is no more left than from Lieutenant Murphy in Robocop.
  6. kot11180
    kot11180 4 May 2013 09: 26
    0
    btr-xnumx with utd-xnumx is just a beast
    1. svp67
      svp67 4 May 2013 09: 29
      0
      Quote: kot11180
      btr-xnumx with utd-xnumx is just a beast

      But worse than with YaMZ238
  7. self-propelled
    self-propelled 4 May 2013 09: 34
    +3
    recently on this resource there was a topic BTMP-84 http://topwar.ru/163-btmp-84-ukraina-simbioz-tanka-i-bronetransportyora.html where it was said that the adoption of such compromise decisions leads to functional limitations. BMT-72 is apparently a cheaper version of BTMP-84 with the same set of disadvantages. what is the only entry-exit for the landing
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 4 May 2013 10: 18
      +8
      Quote: self-propelled
      what is the only entry-exit for the landing


      When the tower is rotated 90 degrees, the landing hatches will be blocked by boxes with spare parts and accessories on the tower, is the engineering idea that is still ready to finish ready to put its children in the landing and send it into battle?
  8. Alekseev
    Alekseev 4 May 2013 09: 55
    +4
    Quote: self-propelled
    The advertisement is good. The question is different, when when will the Kharkov Design Bureau and many others reunite creating the defense industry complex

    Absolutely accurate definition! good
    So far, everything depicted is nothing more than an advertisement.
    And the reason for the futility is by no means two-stroke diesel engines (5tdf and others), which (for lack of others) put on everything that moves and has a chance of selling.
    And, of course, it’s not that Kharkov engineers (real ones, which remained over the years of unrest) are less advanced than their counterparts in the West or in Russia.
    It is just that Ukraine is needed as a supplier of raw materials and semi-finished products, and not as a serious competitor in the arms market.
    In order to create something fundamentally new, expensive R&D, investments for personnel restoration, cooperation with Russian design bureaus, which are the closest on the topic, are needed, i.e. public policy. She is not.
    Therefore, there is no main demand for the Kharkov BTT and the Malyshev plant on a scale of at least 10-15% of the Soviet ones.
    Under such conditions "modernize, do not modernize, you will still get ..."
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 4 May 2013 10: 04
      +2
      Quote: Alekseev
      Therefore, there is no main demand for the Kharkov BTT and the Malyshev plant on a scale of at least 10-15% of the Soviet ones.
      Under such conditions "modernize, do not modernize, you will still get ..."

      exactly recourse trying, spinning as Kharkiv residents can - you want to eat. only visible to the state deeply side all these problems with the domestic military-industrial complex and the army ... request
      1. Kars
        Kars 4 May 2013 10: 27
        +7
        Quote: self-propelled
        only visible to the state deeply sideways all these problems with the domestic defense industry and the army.

        You suggest how to order 800 tanks a year to load the plant?
        Ukraine’s tanks are quite at the level of neighbors, so they spend money on other purposes. And there are not so many of them. Ukraine is not a rich country, and does not have big foreign policy ambitions.
        Quote: Alekseev
        It’s just that Ukraine is needed as a supplier of raw materials and semi-finished products, and not as a serious competitor in the arms market

        This is probably calculated by the fact that Germany does not buy BM Oplot from us, and Finland BTR-4

        And on the topic, while Ukraine is among the ten largest exporters of weapons.
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 4 May 2013 10: 35
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Ukraine’s tanks are quite at the level of neighbors, so they spend money on other purposes

          that the tanks are quite at the level I don’t argue. just how many of them are in service with Ukraine? but the fact that money is spent on other purposes is for sure (only not for the army)
          1. Akim
            Akim 4 May 2013 10: 42
            0
            Quote: self-propelled
            just how many of them are in service with Ukraine?

            In the ranks of almost 700 (T-64B (BV), BM Bulat) 7-T-84U. And even more than a hundred in the combat reserve (1 tier) T-80 (various modifications).
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 4 May 2013 10: 58
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              In the ranks of almost 700 (T-64Б (BV), BM Bulat)

              Bulatov in the Ukrainian army will not be typed and hundreds. and the T-64B (BV) has been in service since Soviet times. and already slightly does not meet modern requirements for tanks
              1. Kars
                Kars 4 May 2013 11: 01
                +3
                Quote: self-propelled
                and already slightly does not meet modern requirements for tanks

                Is this compared to anyone? With the Romanian T-55? Or the Polish Leopard 2A4?
                Or maybe that will participate in the parade in Yekaterinburg?
                1. svp67
                  svp67 4 May 2013 11: 06
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  Or maybe that will participate in the parade in Yekaterinburg?

                  And what does the modernized T72, whose photo you have attached, have to do with the question of T64?
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 4 May 2013 11: 10
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    And what does the modernized T72, whose photo you have attached, have to do with the question of T64?

                    What can you never do?
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    and the T-64B (BV) has been in service since Soviet times. and already slightly does not meet modern requirements for tanks
                2. self-propelled
                  self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 14
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  Is this compared to anyone? With the Romanian T-55? Or the Polish Leopard 2A4?

                  this is in comparison with modern T-90 and Leopard 2A6 tanks. and what side did the Romanian T-55 turn out to be? in view of a possible conflict between Ukraine and Romania? I would like to know the number of hours spent by Ukrainian tankers (and not only tankers, but soldiers as a whole) at training ranges and in classrooms, and not at household jobs. during my service, most of my peers shot 3 (THREE!) cartridge from AK-74 at the shooting range before the oath! and ALL!
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 4 May 2013 11: 21
                    0
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    type of possible conflict between Ukraine and Romania?

                    Are you with the Russian Federation and Germany?
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    about the times of my service, my peers for the most part shot 3 (THREE!) cartridges from AK-74 at the shooting range before the oath! and ALL

                    it was necessary to give the ensign money, and all business.
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    I would like to know the number of hours spent by Ukrainian tankers (and not only tankers, but soldiers as a whole)

                    more often than 90 for sure.
                    1. self-propelled
                      self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 34
                      +6
                      Quote: Kars
                      Are you with the Russian Federation and Germany?

                      what is this for? I actually live in Ukraine ...

                      Quote: Kars
                      it was necessary to give the ensign money, and all business.

                      I’m not sure that even now the prestige of service in the Ukrainian army is so high that a soldier had to pay money for it ... I somehow thought that since the state was obliged to teach me military affairs (at least at the initial level) , make me my defender, so it is it (the state) that should allocate funds for the same cartridges ...
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 4 May 2013 11: 39
                        -3
                        Quote: self-propelled
                        what is this for? I actually live in Ukraine ..

                        Quote: self-propelled
                        then in comparison with modern T-90 and Leopard 2A6 tanks. and what side did the Romanian T-55 turn out to be? in view of a possible conflict between Ukraine and Romania?

                        Quote: self-propelled
                        even now the prestige of service in the Ukrainian army is so high that a soldier had to pay money for it

                        Well, reluctantly, do not shoot as much as you want. You can’t go home for the weekend either - I had a good part of it in 20 minutes by public transport
                        Quote: self-propelled
                        make me my defender, so it’s it (the state) that should allocate funds for the same cartridges

                        there were such times - and the question is, did you yourself want to become one? For example, my acquaintances from the gums really didn’t like tank firing - and exits because then I clean the barrel, wash the tank))) I personally after university .. type . served.
                      2. self-propelled
                        self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 52
                        +8
                        Quote: Kars
                        -Yes, and the question, did you yourself want to become one?

                        perhaps it will surprise you, but he wanted to go to the army himself. and it was not even in my thoughts to "roll away" from the army (and I do not regret that I served in the army).
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, reluctantly, do not shoot as much as you want. You can’t go home for the weekend either - I had a good part of it in 20 minutes by public transport

                        to shoot as much as one wants was not a purely physical opportunity - the lack of ammunition (with the exception of NZ in the warehouse). Yes, and home for the weekend for 600 km you won’t roll too much
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 4 May 2013 12: 00
                        0
                        Quote: self-propelled
                        but he wanted to go to the army himself.

                        Not my case, it’s of little use — the army should be professional, and so didn’t learn much more than my grandfathers (colonels of the Soviet tempering) taught at the NVP.
                        Quote: self-propelled
                        there was a purely physical possibility - the lack of ammunition (except for NZ in stock)

                        for the AK-74? I don’t know where you were but in the Zaporozhye region they are getting millions of years old.
                        Quote: self-propelled
                        Yes, and home for the weekend for 600 km is not much
                        I didn’t get when the distribution near the place of residence, far only in the presidential regiment and the landing, and then they asked for a desire.
              2. Akim
                Akim 4 May 2013 11: 22
                +3
                Quote: self-propelled
                and not at hozrabot. at the time of my service, my peers for the most part shot 3 (THREE!) cartridges from AK-74 at the shooting range before the oath! and EVERYTHING!

                Names that it was then. Now almost all tank battalions in mechanized brigades are equipped with contract soldiers. who do a good job. In that year, all-Ukrainian crew competitions showed good results.
                1. self-propelled
                  self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 40
                  +5
                  Quote: Akim
                  Now almost all tank battalions in mechanized brigades are equipped with contract soldiers. who do a good job. In that year, all-Ukrainian crew competitions showed good results.

                  Well, I can only sincerely be happy for the Ukrainian tankers. then it’s not so bad ... good
          2. Akim
            Akim 4 May 2013 11: 10
            +4
            Quote: self-propelled
            self-propelled

            You should understand that Ukrainian troops in general correspond to the region’s armored forces. Of course, I would like to transfer all tank brigades to BM Bulat. But there will be an imbalance between neighbors. A tank of type 64BV does not ask for a meal and may well compete with the Polish RT-91. Yes, and not tanks decide everything on the battlefield. Now, when the Poles will buy another Leo2A4 brigade, then you should think about it.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 4 May 2013 13: 49
          +4
          Quote: Akim
          In the ranks of almost 700 (T-64B (BV), BM Bulat) 7-T-84U. And even more than a hundred in the combat reserve (1 tier) T-80 (various modifications).
          No need to inflate SO (hot, and burst not for long). Looking at the state of technology in the composition of even combat units (not to mention the reserve), it becomes bitter. DO NOT SO with technology that can save lives. How many people are aware of the fact that even ONE day-to-day (instead of three according to the state of the USSR Armed Forces) remains in the Armed Forces on duty. Serve SOMEONE. Think for yourself if there are people to conduct QUALITY PPO and PPR. So all this "splendor" is now a museum, IMHO, and will soon become a cemetery ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 4 May 2013 14: 15
            +2
            Quote: Misantrop
            Looking at the state of technology in the composition of even combat units (not to mention the reserve), it becomes bitter.

            I will not argue with you. Anything can happen. But six months ago I saw a mixture of PARMA with DARM (because of the brigade system, the "regimental artillery workshops" were expanded. So everything was there. Even the copper winding on the electric motors and the machine for them also worked. There were problems with the spare parts - all Chinese (native dragged) - but the set, although the machines are stored in a cropped shelf, they are quite workable.
            PS Crowbar and shovels have not been welded to armor for a long time (and I remember that).
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 4 May 2013 14: 25
              +1
              Quote: Akim
              machines are stored in a cropped shelf - quite workable.
              This means only one thing: they were VERY lucky with the head of this entire farm. Although this technique also requires REGULAR PPO and PPR with updating the flow rate and rubber goods. Moreover, if the "famous" Chinese quality ...
              1. Akim
                Akim 4 May 2013 14: 38
                +3
                Part as part - like everyone else. Nowadays there are a lot of sudden inspections and "clearing" is no longer enough. Checkers are given a good bonus for major violations detected (poor Odessa Academy every month a new check). On the other hand, the cadets are taught exactly what military affairs I could only dream of when I was them. And those who studied at the OISV in the mid-90s in the early 2000s will remember their chief, General Trots, with a "kindly quiet word", because of whom those graduates had to be taught anew in the army. (And it was still a good staff) Other institutes weed out this!
      2. Kars
        Kars 4 May 2013 10: 54
        +7
        Quote: self-propelled
        but the fact that money is spent on other purposes is for sure (only not for the army)

        And were you interested? Or do you know only about the articles on VO about the Ukrainian army?


        17th quarter at Zaporizhzhia, at the airport of the State Power Enterprise “Zaporizhzhya State Aviation Repair Plant“ MiGremont ”, we checked the control power of the modern part of the house, and we have the same time Zbroynykh Forces of Ukraine.

        Yak rozpoviv director of DP “MiGremont” Sergiy Furdilo, having stretched out his life in 2012 to repair a lock at the Zaporizhzhya plant, they abolished 11 litakіv: there are six SU-27 and five SU-25.

        Varto Dodati, scho at the station of the throttling vip drifting buv present Head of the Zaporizhzhya Regional State Administrative Administration Oleksandr Peklushenko. Winning with the team of enterprises and hanging up a donation for heroic work for the ice-breakers, as if they were fighting in the sky for repair and modernization.


        S-300 is also updated, and not only for itself but also for Kazakhstan
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 04
          0
          Quote: Kars
          Are you interested?

          Believe it or not, in the mid-90s he served in the Ukrainian army. and served in a unit on constant combat duty. so I know not by hearsay about the "hardships and hardships of the army service". and last year my nephew returned from the army. so I have the opportunity to compare what happened during my military service and now
          1. Kars
            Kars 4 May 2013 11: 14
            -4
            Quote: self-propelled
            do not believe me, in the mid-90s he was doing military service

            Do not believe now 2013.
            Quote: self-propelled
            so I know about the "hardships and hardships of the army service" not by hearsay

            2004
            Quote: self-propelled
            so I have the opportunity to compare what happened during my army service and now

            Well, this does not mean that you can give an expert opinion,
            1. self-propelled
              self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 23
              +6
              Quote: Kars
              Well, this does not mean that you can give an expert opinion,

              in fact, I do not give an expert opinion, but express my thoughts (if you have not noticed this). and the fact that my opinion does not coincide with yours is not a problem (unless you make a problem out of it yourself). or do you have a principle "there are two opinions - one is mine, the other is wrong"? ... request
              1. Kars
                Kars 4 May 2013 11: 25
                -3
                Quote: self-propelled
                , but I express my thoughts (if you have not noticed this).

                Does not look like it.
                Quote: self-propelled
                "there are two opinions - one is mine, the other is wrong"?

                Do you consider criticism of your opinion a problem?
                1. self-propelled
                  self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 37
                  +5
                  Quote: Kars
                  Do you consider criticism of your opinion a problem?

                  not on your nelly. if the criticism is justified - I am only for it. productive criticism is an excellent teacher.
                  but you probably have problems with criticism
                  Quote: Kars
                  Quote: self-propelled
                  , but I express my thoughts (if you have not noticed this).
                  Does not look like it.
                  - the title of expert and shoulder straps oblige. sorry, I somehow didn’t notice
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 4 May 2013 11: 46
                    0
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    - the title of expert and shoulder straps oblige. sorry, I somehow didn’t notice

                    Next time, be careful.
                    Especially considering that in 2012, more than a billion dollars were earmarked for the army.
                  2. self-propelled
                    self-propelled 4 May 2013 12: 01
                    +3
                    Quote: Kars
                    Especially considering that in 2012 more than a billion dollars were slammed into the army

                    good Romania about 2 billion $ (population about 20 million people), Poland - 9 billion $ (population 38 million people)
                  3. Kars
                    Kars 4 May 2013 12: 05
                    +3
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    Romania about $ 2 billion, Poland - $ 9 billion

                    Ours are also closer to two.
                    Well, they need it, and even everything at European prices, and expenses / salaries at the European level. Spare parts for the leopard from the Germans are not cheap, like ammunition.
                    And now only Romania has been unable to collect money for the used F-15 squadron for 16 years, and continues to fly on the Mig-21
                  4. Akim
                    Akim 4 May 2013 12: 19
                    +4
                    Quote: self-propelled
                    Romania about $ 2 billion (population about 20 million people),

                    2 billion bucks (or rather 2,1 billion euros) is Romania’s dream - because it is 2% of GDP. That year they had 1,3% this year 1,26%
                    Yourself and count http://www.digi24.ro/stire/Bugetul-MapN-va-fi-si-in-2013-mult-prea-mic-pentru-do

                    tarea-armatei_71114

                    But of course you can’t compare it with Poland, but the Russian budget is also slightly ahead of it in relativity per person0.
                    PS In Ukraine, from this year, there is a separate article on rearmament. which is not subject to MO (so that it is not stolen there).
        2. self-propelled
          self-propelled 4 May 2013 11: 26
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Do not believe now 2013.

          and much has changed? but for the better? or do you see the situation "... from the window of a personal car ..."?
          1. Kars
            Kars 4 May 2013 11: 30
            +3
            Quote: self-propelled
            and much has changed? but for the better? or do you see the situation "... from the window of a personal car ..."?

            Much. For the better, worse than the end of the 90s, it’s difficult to come up with something ... official ..

            At the brigade polygon Oleksandrіvsky 30th рем okremo guards ’mechanized mechanized brigades passed combat battalion tank battalion. Tankіsti vikonali the right to the right of the control stilb by the regular artillery builder from the tank T-64B1. Senior kerivnik st_lb buv special commander of the brigade guard Colonel Oleksandr Nesterenko.

            The preparation hour before preparation for the special warehouse for the battalion was won by the methane of the F-1 fighter grenade, and for the day before the start of the battlefield, the crew spent the next right to control the contribution.

            Two tank companies appeared among those who scored for the results of military strikes, and de-commander of the guard, senior lieutenant Zdislav Frankovsky. Among the tank platoons, the most obvious results were showing the special warehouse of the 2st tank platoon of the 1st tank roti pid command to the guards of the senior lieutenant Andrii Levenka. We are saving money for regular school bags and becoming familiar with the warehouse of the commander of the tank guards sergeant Saledin Bulatov, the naval officer of the guards soldier Bogdan Anastasov and the mechanics and water of the senior soldier Viktor Sinyavsky. Tsei ekіpazh knowing offended mіshenі tankіv that usі kulemetnі rozrakhunki.


            Have you tried to visit which site where the activity of ZSU is highlighted?
            So for interest. Teaching Chumatsky Way 2013 search for interest.
          2. Akim
            Akim 4 May 2013 11: 33
            +2
            Quote: self-propelled
            and much has changed? and for the better?

            Believe me, when they fired from the 90s with the TT, because there were no rounds at Makar, I think it was worse.
    2. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 15: 08
      +2
      Remember a year ago we handed over a batch of repaired and modernized MiGs? A photo with his "booth" caught my eye
      I'm not a flyer and I don't understand this either. but in shape the cockpit is similar to the cockpit of the MiG-29 (and not the Eurofighter).
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 4 May 2013 18: 13
        +3
        Quote: Akim
        .....
        I'm not a flyer and I don't understand this either. but in shape the cockpit is similar to the cockpit of the MiG-29 (and not the Eurofighter).

        Cabin MiG-29KUB

        1. Akim
          Akim 4 May 2013 20: 17
          +4
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Bad_gr

          I also found the bottom picture under the name MiG-29CUB. It’s just that the information slipped that Ukrainian MiGs and Dryers were being upgraded to option 4+. And two years ago, in Mirgorod, the Americans said that there are a lot of arrow devices in the Su-27, to which the Air Force commander told them that the devices are being replaced with displays.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 4 May 2013 20: 36
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            I also found the bottom picture under the name MiG-29KUB. It’s just that the information slipped that Ukrainian MiGs and Dryers were being upgraded to option 4+.

            I think that the picture of the cabin of the Ukrainian MiG-29 is not true. I am sure that Ukraine can install a glass cockpit on its plane, but it should be different from the Russian one. In the picture, its full copy.
            1. Akim
              Akim 4 May 2013 20: 42
              +2
              Quote: Bad_gr
              In the picture, its full copy.

              I trust you with a word. I "float" in such matters.
    3. Simon
      Simon 5 May 2013 22: 14
      0
      I understand that updating means painting, but can you create something new of your own?
      1. Kars
        Kars 5 May 2013 22: 26
        0
        Quote: Simon
        I understand that updating means painting, but can you create something new of your own?

        Do you have an order?
      2. Akim
        Akim 5 May 2013 23: 03
        +1
        Quote: Simon
        I understand that updating means painting, but can you create something new of your own?

        What's the point? The Turks still have "Phantoms" flying. And in Ukraine there are still about 2oo MiG-29s in reserve. You have enough strength to reflash them yourself. The engine can be developed if necessary. When the Chinese offered to assemble the L-15 and J-10 in Odessa, the Ukrainian side did not want to install Chinese components, and therefore did not agree on their counterparts.
  • Misantrop
    Misantrop 4 May 2013 13: 43
    +7
    Quote: Kars
    while Ukraine is one of the ten largest exporters of weapons
    Still would. To capture the majority of the strategic warehouses of the European theater during the partition and not become an exporter ... laughing

    And on the topic, we already got to the T-55 (obviously, newer modifications are over). I’m still waiting for the turn to reach the T-34 from numerous WWII monuments. It seems that not long is left ... what
    1. Kars
      Kars 4 May 2013 22: 10
      0
      Quote: Misantrop

      It’s boring with you wildly
      Quote: Misantrop
      on the topic, and already reached the T-55

      you probably like the approach in the Russian Federation to send them to the blast furnace?
      Quote: Misantrop
      It does not seem to be long left.

      What kind of pisimist are you))))
  • Alekseev
    Alekseev 21 May 2013 19: 31
    0
    I understand your patriotism.
    Why, Ukraine was not in the top ten! How many military vehicles sold from the Soviet stock!
    The question is at what prices? And who got the money? The three military districts are no joke. laughingThe same T-72 for Ethiopians where did they come from? Already, there is not much left to sell. smile

    And the industrial potential in the Soviet era was enormous. But, alas, there was.
    But nothing needs to be calculated.
    You just need to not be biased to assess the situation.
  • individual
    individual 4 May 2013 10: 37
    +3
    Everything is correct. But it is bitterly disappointing that during the collapse of the USSR, the established chain of engineering, technical and design development of the state was interrupted for years. Now, either we are modernizing promising weapons designs or we are pulling out Soviet research that has not yet been sold by the dealers of the market bazaar. If Harkovchan succeeds, something new is good. If Russia and Ukraine were to "unite our efforts again, this would be a class."
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 4 May 2013 11: 39
    0
    Everywhere they change the engine. But they are very problematic among Kharkiv people, especially for high mountains (Peru).
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 11: 48
      +6
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      But they are very problematic among Kharkiv people, especially for high mountains

      You have been deceived. This is the only engine that works well on the Indo-Pakistani border (in the mountains and desert
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 4 May 2013 12: 33
    +1
    That Pakistan no longer orders them. And besides him, almost no one buys.
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      Then Pakistan no longer orders them

      I agree. Since February of this year there have been no more orders. fellow 50 million bucks is a 100-110 MTO.
      And China also puts them for export. Egypt 3TD sculpts in its armored personnel carriers.
  • V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 4 May 2013 12: 59
    0
    So what? Ukraine is not Russia and stands more backwards to Russia than in front. Repairs - well, good (for them), what do we care? Ukraine is not yet an enemy to us, but it is striving for enemies. This means that we must take all this into account and build our own technical base - anyway, the Ukrainian military-industrial complex is cut off from us. Until that time, until Ukraine becomes "on a friendly footing" with Russia, all these beautiful things in Russia can cause nothing more than - caution, at best - simple curiosity.
  • honest jew
    honest jew 4 May 2013 13: 26
    0
    well done Ukrainians, that's who is worth learning from !!!!
  • Yemelya
    Yemelya 4 May 2013 14: 48
    +1
    I wonder what is better - T-55 with a gun like the T-64, or T-64 with a tower from the T-55? request
    1. Canep
      Canep 4 May 2013 15: 22
      0
      T-90 is better. smile
    2. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 15: 24
      +3
      Quote: Emelya
      is it better - T-55 with a gun like the T-64, or T-64 with a tower from the T-55?

      Better first. But still depends on the customer. You see the DShKMT machine gun (not even remote) on the tower - that means the customer is from central Africa. Ukraine can produce 100 mm BOPSs, which knock out early versions of the T-72 and the US-English second-hand. For Africa should be enough. If you did this, then there was such a request.
      1. Yemelya
        Yemelya 4 May 2013 15: 38
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        Better first.

        In my opinion, the T-55-64 (as it seems to be called) is more logical - it is not overloaded and does not require large expenses for remaking. True, I have a question - is it not too tight for the loader (is the T-64 lower case than the T-55?)? If the case is the same height, the machine has a right to exist. About DShK - most likely they just left what it was on the T-55.
        1. Akim
          Akim 4 May 2013 15: 54
          +1
          I didn't think about that. I've just never been inside the T-55. I can only assume that in this "simbo" there is a chambering mechanism, like in "Al-Zarrar" There, the loader works in a sitting position and with 125-mm ammunition.
        2. svp67
          svp67 4 May 2013 22: 05
          0
          Quote: Emelya
          . True, I have a question - is it not too tight for the loader (is the T-64 lower case than the T-55?)? If the case is the same height, the machine has a right to exist. About DShK - most likely they just left what was on the T-55.

          The modernized machines have charging mechanisms of a crazy type, so the loader is not very cramped there. And DShKs are left at the request of the customer, apparently there are reasons for that ...
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 4 May 2013 22: 52
            +4
            Quote: svp67
            The modernized machines have charging mechanisms of a crazy type, so the loader is not very cramped there.

            A tank with a hull from T-64, and a tower from T-55 does not have a loading mechanism, an ordinary tower from T-55, with a 100mm rifled gun D-10T2S, for unitary shells. Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dELRbxmr_2U&hl=ru you can see how this tank was created.
            But his caterpillar is incomprehensible: it looks like an RMSh, which was also installed on the T-55, T-62, T-72 and T-90 of the first series, but certainly not native to the T-64.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. svp67
              svp67 4 May 2013 23: 44
              +1
              Quote: Bad_gr
              A tank with a hull from T-64, and a tower from T-55 does not have a loading mechanism, an ordinary tower from T-55, with an 100mm rifled gun D-10T2С,

              Thanks for the video, here you are right. In this case, another moment is playing, the T64 has a larger shoulder strap, if you look closely, a welded new shoulder strap is visible on the hull, so there is enough space for the DA.
              At the expense of the caterpillar. There’s nothing supernatural, the drive wheel is rearranged and you can put the track with RMSh serial connection, but what’s interesting, if you look closely, in the film the upgraded tank rides on tracks with parallel connection used on the T64, here's the article and photo
              1. Yemelya
                Yemelya 5 May 2013 10: 05
                -1
                Quote: svp67
                T64 has a larger shoulder strap, if you look closely, a welded new shoulder strap is visible on the hull, so there is enough space for the DA.

                On vidio nothing specifically about the new epaulette is not visible. I do not have data on the diameter of the epaulettes of the T-64, if anyone has it, please inform (for some reason, this rather important indicator is rarely mentioned in the literature).
                About the place for the loader - I mean the height of the workplace.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 5 May 2013 10: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Emelya
                  On vidio nothing specifically about the new epaulette is not visible. D
                  Yes, you see, since
                  Due to the fact that the diameter of the turret is slightly wider than the hull, inserts were welded to the sides for its installation
                  and the video shows that the shoulder strap does not protrude, outside the case
                  The width of the overhead tower of the T64 - 2500, versus 1816 mm for the T55
                  1. Yemelya
                    Yemelya 5 May 2013 11: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: svp67
                    Due to the fact that the diameter of the turret is slightly wider than the hull, inserts were welded to the sides for its installation

                    and where is it from?
                    Thank you for the T-64 epaulet (if possible, also the source)
                    Charging, however, from what the T-64 had a shoulder strap, was not easier - it became something like the T-55.
                    I would be grateful if you post data on the height of the T-55 and T-64.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 5 May 2013 11: 35
                      0
                      http://flibusta.net/b/237761/read

                      didn’t look here?
                      1. Yemelya
                        Yemelya 5 May 2013 12: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        http://flibusta.net/b/237761/read

                        There is nothing about the tower shoulder strap and the change in hull height compared to the T-55.

                        In "Technology and Armament" there was an article devoted to improving the protection of Soviet tanks. There, the introduction of the Ministry of Health was explained, among other things, by the impossibility of reducing the height of the tank when manually loading it. it will be extremely difficult for the loader to work bent over. The T-55 turret is visually larger than that of the T-64, but the T-64 may have a lower hull.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 5 May 2013 12: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Emelya
                        There is nothing about the tower shoulder strap and the change in the height of the hull compared to the T-55

                        And just no sizes either?
                        Quote: Emelya
                        but the T-64 case may be lower.

                        Try to find sizes in different sources, vryatli someone answered such questions
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Bad_gr
                      Bad_gr 5 May 2013 14: 41
                      0
                      Quote: Emelya
                      the T-64 case may be lower.

                      Surely I will not say, but the case is unlikely to be lower. In T-55-62, the driver is sitting on a flat seat, head resting on a rubber gasket on the hatch. In the T-64, the driver is not lying flat, and also, the body should be the same in height (maybe a little lower due to the deflection of the bottom at the location of the carrier).
                      In the T-55, the loader is standing on a pole rotating with the tower (above the torsion bars). That is, the height from the floors to the tower roof. In Leopard 2, it is 165 cm. In Abrams, it is comparable. I think in the modernized tank the height of the working area is comparable to Leo and Abrams, but lower than in the T-55.
    3. Akim
      Akim 5 May 2013 07: 50
      +1
      Quote: Emelya
      About DShK - most likely they just left what was on the T-55

      They put it because it is more convenient for blacks. Here is another "miracle" for Africa based on the BRDM-2. With DShKM machine gun and two SPGM.
  • Simon
    Simon 5 May 2013 22: 19
    0
    Yes, how many do not upgrade the bast shoe, anyway, he will not be better than a new boot. fool laughing
    1. Akim
      Akim 5 May 2013 23: 06
      +2
      Quote: Simon
      bast shoes, anyway, he will not be better than a new boot.

      I did not know that the whole world was walking in bast shoes. laughing Even Americans with a B-52.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 4 May 2013 15: 19
    0
    It's not the Kharkiv people, but the problem of the 2x stroke diesel engine itself. For example, the tendency to overheat, the tendency to self-disperse (runaway), low fuel efficiency. They are very sensitive to air purity. Less resource and more difficult operation.
    1. Akim
      Akim 4 May 2013 15: 40
      +2
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      low fuel efficiency

      I agree with that. Efficiency is lower than that of 4 tactics. But this is not critical. Plus, he eats a lot of oil. Overheating has not been a problem for a long time. His low sensitivity to air plays into his hands only.
    2. svp67
      svp67 4 May 2013 22: 13
      +2
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      It's not the Kharkiv people, but the problem of the 2x stroke diesel engine itself. For example, the tendency to overheat, the tendency to self-disperse (runaway), low fuel efficiency. They are very sensitive to air purity. Less resource and more difficult operation.

      Unlike the "B" engines, there is nothing supernatural in the operation of the TD series engine. 2-bar has both its own - so +. To undoubted + I include:
      - higher overall power;
      -higher torque performance;
      -the ability to install a more highly efficient (ejector) cooling system,
      - a simpler transmission design,
      -the best performance in terms of "undermining" the soil, which has a beneficial effect on the permeability of the tank.
  • aspirin02
    aspirin02 4 May 2013 16: 10
    +2
    Here they shout so much about the terrible Romanians, which is ridiculous, Ukraine is included in the 5 armies of Europe. Go to the site http://www.globalfirepower.com, the American site and country data are taken from a congressional study, roughly speaking the volume of armies from America ... So Romanians are there at the very end .. I will present you comparisons ....
    Ukraine Rumunia
    45706100 total population 21846504
    22244394 Workforce 11030173
    15686055 Eligible for Military Service 9058289
    481313 Populations reaching draft age annually 229405
    159000 Active Soldiers 73350
    1000000 Military Active Reserves 79900
    587 The total number of aircraft 168
    274 The total number of 64 helicopters
    412 Military airports 53
    4103 The total number of tanks 1098
    7081 Total AFV 1535
    1203 Total SPG 0
    993 Towed Artillery 1359
    626 Total number of multiple launch rocket systems 188
    3000 Total strength (chemical weapons) 1117
    3080 Anti-tank weapons 1020
    9500 Military vehicles (trucks) 5600
    134 Transport ships 5
    6 Main ports and terminals 6
    37 Navy ships in the ranks of 48
    0 aircraft carriers 0
    1 Submarine fleet 0
    1 Frigates 3
    6 Corvettes 7
    5 Minesweepers 5
    1 River Warships 23
    2 Amphibians (small submarines) 0
    $ 126200000000 External Debt $ 127900000000
    $ 3863000000 Annual Defense Budget $ 1945000000
    $ 31790000000 Foreign exchange and gold reserves $ 48060000000
    $ 329300000000 Purchasing Power Parity $ 267100000000
    22060000 manpower 9252000
    73180 Oil production (barley per day) 92140
    395000000 Proven 600000000 Oil Reserves
    169495km Road surfaces 82386km
    21658km Rail coverage 10785km
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 4 May 2013 16: 36
      +1
      Quote: aspirin02
      $ 3863000000 Annual Defense Budget

      is it for the Ukrainian army?!? in my opinion the numbers are "somewhat" overstated wassat
      The total amount of state funding of the Ministry of Defense in the 2013 year is provided in the amount of 15 billion 315,1 million UAH (1,87 billion $), including through a special fund in the amount of 981,1 million UAH. 2013 billion 9 million UAH is provided for the salary and cash support of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Armed Forces (with accruals) in the state budget-720,8
      For the disposal of ammunition and ensuring the survivability and explosion safety of arsenals, bases and warehouses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the state budget provides for 246,1 million UAH.
      Moreover, according to the Ministry of Finance, the defense budget of Ukraine for the 2013 year provides, inter alia, state financing of the main targeted defense state programs for the creation of new types of weapons.
      For the creation, purchase and modernization of weapons and military equipment of the Armed Forces, and in particular, the creation and construction of the An-70 military transport aircraft, the design and construction of the Corvette class lead ship, the creation of the Sapsan missile system, the state budget provides for 919 million UAH .
  • Docklishin
    Docklishin 4 May 2013 16: 52
    +5
    Personally, in my opinion, Kharkiv residents are great - they did not let the plant bend down and squander resources. It would be quite nice to work in cooperation. After all, nobody forbids Europe. + To tighten up Nikolaev shipyards. Unless, of course, there is something else left. Z. s. here is interesting, who on the tower in English "Typhon 2" wrote fool
  • Sashko07
    Sashko07 4 May 2013 18: 33
    0
    Quote: Misantrop
    No need to inflate SO (hot, and burst not for long). Looking at the state of technology in the composition of even combat units (not to mention the reserve)

    Of course, I apologize, but that in Russia, too, all the equipment is new and in excellent condition, maybe all those thousands of tanks that are in reserve and canned can also take and go in 10 minutes, or even the same T-90 are also in perfect condition? I have a lot to do with this.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 5 May 2013 10: 05
      0
      Quote: Sashko07
      that in Russia too

      I do not know. I judge by what I see in the Crimea. And I compare it not with what is "behind the nearest fence", but with the storage requirements for the possibility of further operation
  • lexa333
    lexa333 4 May 2013 19: 15
    +2
    why there is always a Russian-Ukrainian toilet.
    1. smile
      smile 4 May 2013 23: 20
      +3
      lexa333
      Indeed ... it’s even a shame ... all right, the bandarlogs were still cursing ... and then ... normal guys, but as we get together - it starts - and you ... and we ...
      you know, once I saw an episode:
      6 am, summer .. sunshine .. I'm going for a run ... in front of me are two decent, but slightly crumpled girls after partying ... one another yells all over the street - hello, g ...! The second is gaining air for a "worthy answer" ... But the first finishes off - Fuck you yourself ...! ... the curtain .... so here we are ... out of habit, are we cursing?
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 5 May 2013 10: 11
        +4
        Quote: smile
        how we get together - and it starts - and you .. and we ...
        That's it. Anyway, as if the shared apartment was shared. One is a kitchen with a toilet, the other is a room. And they tease that one is sleeping on the rug, and the other is dressed up in the corner. Instead of a normal life ...
        1. smile
          smile 5 May 2013 12: 57
          +1
          Misantrop
          Yes, so, in fact, it happened ... now we are sitting on the rugs ... we find out who managed to get better more ... ugh ...
    2. svp67
      svp67 5 May 2013 10: 07
      0
      Quote: lexa333
      why there is always a Russian-Ukrainian toilet.
      Here, as in the saying - cute swear, just amuse ...
  • papik09
    papik09 4 May 2013 19: 45
    +4
    Quote: Zomanus
    The technique of a country hostile to us ... It is time to begin to perceive Ukraine in this vein. So as not to get a surprise like the Georgian.


    Yeah, the brain was not laid in your head even during the preliminary design, but during the manufacture they forgot to check for the presence of it ...
  • T-130
    T-130 4 May 2013 19: 49
    0
    But the Israelis converting the T-55 into an armored personnel carrier immediately throw out the Stavt’s tower with only a machine gun and not always!
  • UFO
    UFO 4 May 2013 20: 28
    +3
    I put the article +, for the review. But in fact (without \\\\\\), the impression is painful. Given the engineering and production potential of Ukraine, the modernization does not significantly increase the basic performance characteristics, but rather -
    Quote: Emelya
    I wonder what is better - T-55 with a gun like the T-64, or T-64 with a tower from the T-55?

    LEGO armored car with a limited set of parts. what
  • Selevc
    Selevc 4 May 2013 20: 49
    +6
    There is one conclusion from this article - It is amazing how Ukrainian tank building is still alive with the active desire of the state to completely destroy it !!!

    Maybe it’s good that we concentrated on modernization - all the same, if there is an opportunity to better solve problems by small means ... Soviet times when there was just enough left !!!

    And so they save - and then all the money saved on Mercedes will be allowed !!! :))) Already on what, but not a single boss saves on this !!! :)))
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 4 May 2013 21: 04
    +1
    the plant needs to survive somehow
  • 120352
    120352 4 May 2013 21: 26
    0
    And it would be a good idea to compose something new.
  • revera92
    revera92 4 May 2013 22: 25
    0
    Quote: Zomanus
    The technique of a country hostile to us ... It is time to begin to perceive Ukraine in this vein. So as not to get a surprise like the Georgian.

    In your imagination, perhaps Ukraine is a hostile country. But nothing more.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 5 May 2013 10: 13
      +6
      Quote: revera92
      In your imagination, perhaps Ukraine is a hostile country. But nothing more.
      Ukraine is not, but its leadership is capable of spoiling on a large scale. And to ignore this is also naive
      1. Kars
        Kars 5 May 2013 10: 24
        -2
        Quote: Misantrop
        here her leadership is capable of spoiling on a large scale. And to ignore this is also naive

        and then what about the leadership of the Russian Federation and its relationship to Ukraine.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 5 May 2013 10: 29
          +6
          Quote: Kars

          and then what about the leadership of the Russian Federation and its relationship to Ukraine.

          That Kars, the favorite topic of Ukraine - Russia is to blame for everything, treats Ukraine badly. After your warriors in Georgia shot down our planes, I would not even have stuttered about relations in your place !!! Conscience that you don’t have at all or live by the principle, but I won’t notice the log in the eye of my state.
          1. Kars
            Kars 5 May 2013 10: 39
            -5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            What Kars, favorite Ukrainian theme

            not not a favorite. This is your favorite topic that Ukraine accuses Russia of everything
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            After your warriors in Georgia shot down our planes, I would not even have stuttered about relations in your place!

            if I were you, I would write a statement to the prosecutor’s office) I would name names, give evidence and demand the extradition of war criminals)))
            and Ukrainians would have shot down more planes there, and certainly no one would have abandoned Buk.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Conscience that you don’t have at all or live by the principle, but I won’t notice the log in the eye of my state.

            it’s my state - and I know it pretty well. This misanthrope falls into nastpglia at a time when he was younger. But to ignore the neo-imperial attempts of the Russian Federation is very difficult, it’s even harder not to laugh with them. You do everything to make even such people I decently related to Russia changed their views.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 5 May 2013 10: 47
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              . But to ignore the neo-imperial attempts of the Russian Federation is, well, very difficult
              Even marshall's epaulettes do not yet make you personally a state request
              1. Kars
                Kars 5 May 2013 10: 53
                0
                Quote: Misantrop
                You personally by the state

                You need to be a state personally in order to have an opinion on the foreign policy of a neighboring state))))) Yes, and your shoulder straps by the way are no longer small. Although with such synths as you have on this site turning into a political trash, you will soon have a rating more than me) )))
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 5 May 2013 10: 44
          0
          Quote: Kars
          and then what about the leadership of the Russian Federation and its relationship to Ukraine.

          So, what is next? Offended and buried in shit, let the neighbor stink? Perhaps it’s hard for someone to perceive, but IMHO the leadership of the Russian Federation does not apply to Ukraine in any way. WITH leadership Ukraine, it still has some kind of relationship, but no more
          1. Kars
            Kars 5 May 2013 10: 49
            -2
            Quote: Misantrop
            Perhaps it’s hard for someone to perceive, but IMHO the leadership of the Russian Federation does not apply to Ukraine in any way.

            Well, of course, even economically, it’s not related at all. It doesn’t happen))

            And it would be better if it didn’t stink from the neighbors.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 5 May 2013 11: 21
              0
              Quote: Kars
              Well, of course, even economically, it’s not related at all. It doesn’t happen))

              Really? Although explaining this to a person who does not see the difference between a country and its government is quite difficult ... lol
              1. Kars
                Kars 5 May 2013 11: 28
                -2
                Quote: Misantrop
                Although explain it to a person who does not see

                Why, yes, yes, you are right about yourself. The leadership of the Russian Federation, well, just doesn’t belong to Ukraine, at the same time it drags it to the TS, for some reason the aunt drags all of Ukraine, and not personally Yanukovych and the Cabinet))))
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 5 May 2013 11: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  at the same time drags her to the TC, for some reason, aunt drags all of Ukraine, and not personally Yanukovych and the Cabinet))))

                  Do you drag to Europe? Well, and how are you doing? At least planned? wassat
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 5 May 2013 11: 53
                    -2
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Do you drag to Europe? Well, and how are you doing? At least planned

                    Are you trying to get off the topic that the leadership of Russia does not apply to Ukraine?
                    1. Misantrop
                      Misantrop 5 May 2013 12: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: Kars
                      Are you trying to jump off
                      Я trying to Explain to you that BOTH governments are only concerned with packing their own bags. And even the welfare of their own countries worries them insofar as. But neighboring countries are completely indifferent to them. But it seems unsuccessfully request It seems to you that Medvedev and Putin do not go to bed until the Ukrainians are once again cheated lol
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 5 May 2013 12: 16
                        -6
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Explain to you that BOTH government

                        Both? And you won’t swear? In your performance the holy and fair RF is a canon for imitation and worship)))
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        But neighboring countries are completely indifferent to them.

                        they cannot be indifferent, because they are also involved in the process of stuffing pockets, although it’s useless to tell you something about the economy.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        It seems to you that Medvedev and Putin do not go to bed until once again the Ukrainians

                        Well, it’s not necessary to exaggerate, it doesn’t suit you, just as it pleases you that Medveput cannot soothe itself to such an extent.
                      2. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 5 May 2013 12: 29
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        in your performance, the holy and fair RF is a canon to follow and worship)))
                        Have you hit your head in the morning? Didn’t the temperature go up at night? what
                        Quote: Kars
                        they are also defendants
                        Is the difference between the concepts "subject" and "object" also beyond understanding? I sympathize... lol
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 5 May 2013 12: 38
                        -2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        I'm sorry.

                        I am glad that with your gallstone it does not last very long.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Have you hit your head in the morning? Didn’t the temperature go up at night?

                        What is the back vkduyuche))))
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        The difference between the concepts "subject" and "object"

                        Well, you still try hard to jump)))
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Perhaps it’s hard for someone to perceive, but IMHO the leadership of the Russian Federation does not apply to Ukraine

                        I would write that as a rebellious vassal and market for non-competitive products.
                      4. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 5 May 2013 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        I am glad that with your gall
                        Do you orient yourself again?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, you still try hard to jump)))
                        Well, exactly, for you it is "white noise", which is confirmed by this:
                        Quote: Kars
                        I would write that as a rebellious vassal и market non-competitive products.
                        The sales markets (and - mutually) of the Russian Federation and Ukraine are much more extensive than those abroad. At least due to the similarity of product requirements. And the "vassal" is just about the government, the territory with the population here no side ...
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 5 May 2013 13: 19
                        -2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Do you orient yourself again?

                        Yes, no, just according to your comments, even in the tank theme)))
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well, exactly, for you it is "white noise", which is confirmed by this:

                        Not nepoluchitsa - you laughed to the fullest,

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Perhaps it’s hard for someone to perceive, but IMHO the leadership of the Russian Federation does not apply to Ukraine



                        Quote: Misantrop
                        At least due to the similarity of product requirements.
                        And the competition is even more at the expense of a similar assortment. But at the same time, for political purposes, the Russian Federation is arranging barriers for free market relations.

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And the "vassal" is just about the government, the territory with the population here no side

                        Here the population is just the most painful side. Or do you think someone from the government or an aligarch is very worried about raising prices for housing and communal services? Or consumer goods)))
                      6. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 5 May 2013 22: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Not nepoluchitsa - you laughed to the fullest,
                        Well, that's not for you to judge request
                        Quote: Kars
                        And the competition is even more due to a similar assortment.
                        At the same time, the market in the CIS is very good for Ukrainian products, but what can Europe offer? At least for an approximate balance of trade?
                        Quote: Kars
                        Here the population is just the most painful side.
                        Oh, damn it, scroll through something about vassalage. "Vassal" has free will and action, although limited by the lord. And what in the Russian Federation, what in Ukraine with free will in this regard, the further - the worse. By level of government response to aspirations people more like a slave system
                      7. Kars
                        Kars 5 May 2013 22: 36
                        -1
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        Well, that's not for you to judge

                        To me, and your fluttering is a great confirmation.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        At the same time, the market in the CIS is very good for Ukrainian products

                        It’s good, but its RF is politicizing, since 2009 we personally abandoned the Russian market in favor of China, Kazakhstan, and Europe. We even bought a small pier in Hungary, now we drive it through packaging.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        But what to offer Europe?

                        The same market, with one of the most solvent.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        At least for an approximate balance of trade?
                        To exclude Russian energy resources from it or to reduce it - naked TB begins to look pretty good, and it has a good effect on the dollar.
                        experts predict a balance of payments surplus based on the results of the first quarter of 2013.
                        "The growth of exports of goods amounted to 8,1% y / y, the main factor of which was the export of food products (+ 31,5%) and metallurgy (+ 3,1%). Imports of goods decreased by 7%, which is explained by 40% - m fall in imports of mineral products ("warm" February made it possible to import less natural gas). According to the financial account, its surplus was ensured by the placement of Eurobonds by the government of Ukraine (billions), "says Igor Putilin, head of the analytical department of the investment company Art Capital.
                        At the same time, according to him, the positive balance of payments helped repay the IMF loan, RBC-Ukraine reports.
                        "The positive balance of payments made it possible to repay the IMF loan (4 million) and to increase reserve assets (by 3 million on operations)," he added.
                        Dmitry Sologub, head of the analysis and research department of Raiffeisen Bank Aval, predicts that the balance of payments surplus will be observed until the end of the first quarter.
                        “The balance of payments surplus recorded in January in the amount of almost $ 400 million was caused by a drop in demand for foreign currency, as well as the inflow of foreign capital to Ukraine. In February, this was facilitated by an additional placement of $ 1 billion of Eurobonds of 2012. Against the background of a fall in demand for foreign currency, I think that by the end of the quarter we will see a surplus, "- said the expert.
                        Recall that according to the NBU, the surplus of the balance of payments of Ukraine in February 2013 amounted to $ 1,297 million against a deficit of $ 55 million a year earlier.
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        ... "Vassal" has free will and action, although limited by the lord.

                        Oh yes, you know the story even better than the economy))
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        In terms of the response of the authorities to the aspirations of the people, it looks more like a slave system

                        Why is it about fair elections in the Russian Federation and Ukraine?)))
        3. rolik
          rolik 5 May 2013 20: 08
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Quote: Misantrop
          Do you drag to Europe? Well, and how are you doing? At least planned

          Are you trying to get off the topic that the leadership of Russia does not apply to Ukraine?

          Of course, it applies, especially when you start gas spraying at a neighbor, and at the same time you still make an offended face. As if that’s what happened. When you start to crap finely under the porch, and then you are offended, they send you away. Speak Customs Union? Already especially and do not drag, they do without you. Are you only doing worse for yourself? Do you want to go to Europe? So Europe you nafig unnecessary, they have their own bunts. So stand between two piles of hay, and which one to approach, the cerebellum does not work. However, in the end, it didn’t work out like a stand-up belly that died out of its greed = D Here's a brief summary of the actions of the square headed by your sugar, as well as Bandera and sympathizers with it. You guys still have only flowers, berries are almost ripe = D
          1. Kars
            Kars 5 May 2013 21: 04
            0
            Quote: rolik
            oh when you start spraying gas with a neighbor

            This is proven))))
            Quote: rolik
            You guys still have only flowers, berries are almost ripe = D

            Well, let’s see when oil prices fall
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 5 May 2013 22: 22
            +2
            Quote: Kars
            Well, let’s see when oil prices fall
            Another dream about a cow that died from a neighbor? Instead of sharing pasture. How familiar is it ... laughing
          3. Kars
            Kars 5 May 2013 22: 25
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            pasture use

            Are you planning to have a share in the oil business? Or can a high price for fuel inside Ukraine be beneficial for you? Fuel is clogged in the calculation of most consumer goods.
          4. Misantrop
            Misantrop 6 May 2013 10: 32
            0
            Quote: Kars
            can you benefit from the high price of fuel inside Ukraine?
            Remind who is the author of the current Russian-Ukrainian agreements on the base gas price. The price that Yanukovych and Azarov used to build on, extending the agreement on the stationing of the Black Sea Fleet, linking a discount to this. Is it not the great Ukrainian patriots Yushchenko and Tymoshenko? And why were these patriots not satisfied with the ridiculous price of Kuchma's apparatus compared to the current ones? Is it the direction of the "rollback"?
          5. Kars
            Kars 6 May 2013 10: 41
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            Remind who owns the current Russian-Ukrainian agreements at the base price of gas. T

            Tymoshenko, which Putin blackmailed with her financial frauds and debts.
            Quote: Misantrop
            The price from which Yanukovych and Azarov repelled, extending the agreement on the basis of the Black Sea Fleet, linking the discount to this

            What can I say here they are also stupid.
            Quote: Misantrop
            And than these patriots were not happy with the ridiculous price of the Ku device compared to the current ones

            There is no need to exaggerate either, ridiculous price, ridiculous transit. And ridiculous price should be considered in comparison with the market price at that time.

            Well, nothing is sitting, maybe the contract will be revised. While we are reducing import,

            Also, do not forget that the price of gas is tied to the price of oil, so the hope that its price will fall on world markets is the right position.
          6. Misantrop
            Misantrop 6 May 2013 11: 46
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            Tymoshenko, which Putin blackmailed with her financial frauds and debts.

            Again the evil blackmailer Putin ... wassat Especially when you consider that the contract was NOT REQUIRED to renegotiate, the extension of the previously concluded one would have been quite enough. And there were all the possibilities for this. But this is not the point, this muddy story again shows the relationship of FIGURANTS who deeply do not care about everything except their own interests. What kind of "popular aspirations" are there ... All the more so - of a neighboring state ... request
            Quote: Kars
            gas price tied to oil price
            And who sets this price, maybe a supplier? Or a consumer? Please note that the oil exchange does not sell oil. Futures are traded, i.e. elementary financial speculation. As, in fact, the vast majority of exchanges. They determine the PRICE of everything in a row. Guess from whose interests they come from ours with you? Or all the same?
          7. Kars
            Kars 6 May 2013 11: 51
            0
            Quote: Misantrop
            Especially when you consider that the contract did not REQUIRE,

            They wanted the best, but Yushchenko had no eggs, and the scythe was reinstated.
            Quote: Misantrop
            As, in fact, the vast majority of exchanges. They determine the PRICE of everything in a row.

            You know too little about the economy, including the mechanisms of exchange speculation. Russia, too, by supporting Syria and Iran, pumping up destabilizing factors in the region of the Middle East and the Persian Gulf, is playing a role in raising oil prices. But now it will have to shake and go down.
          8. Misantrop
            Misantrop 6 May 2013 13: 37
            0
            Quote: Kars
            You know too little economics

            Well, it is necessary to compensate for your ABSOLUTE knowledge with something, why not with your ignorance? wassat
            Quote: Kars
            Russia, too, with the support of Syria and Iran, pumping up destabilizing factors in the Middle East and the Persian Gulf region, is playing a price hike

            You need to chew what is the difference of the game on its site and according to its own rules from playing for someone else's and for others? If this is difficult, try to figure out an algorithm for selling the same "Oplot" (for an adequate price), at least at the gay pride parade of pacifists and nudists laughing
            We wanted the best
            Yes dough they wanted, and - for myself personally. What they got. And the price for the country was FUCKED to them, if only the margin would drop in their pocket.
          9. Misantrop
            Misantrop 6 May 2013 13: 43
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            pumping up destabilizing factors in the region of the Middle East and the Persian Gulf
            At least look through this forum, if laziness continues to delve further or once. WHO, AND WITH WHOSE SUPPORT, has been chopped for a year in the Mediterranean? Is Russia aggravating the situation, or is it the United States with accomplices? Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria ... Have you completely blown away the anti-Russian wave?
  • Simon
    Simon 5 May 2013 22: 22
    0
    Ukraine itself is the first to spoil relations with Russia.
  • Ilyukha
    Ilyukha 5 May 2013 08: 20
    +2
    Well done Kharkovites! Modernization of technology is a very interesting market in which you need to be able to work.
    Our Tagil UVZ generally can’t take foreign orders for the modernization of its own T-72 because of sky-high prices that only our ministry of defense pays for.
    So, the price tag-modernization of the T-72-38 million rubles (nearly 1 million euros) apiece!
    Overhaul consists of: replacing the engine, transmission, chassis, electrical equipment with new ones.
    Let's start: a new motor (free sale, ChTZ production) V-92 -1 million rubles (cheaper at wholesale), a new hodovka-even 1 million rubles, boxes — even another 500 tr, electrics - Well, I don’t know, maybe even a few million.
    Total costs for 1 tank, from 5 to 10 million (max)! The profit of the plant is 300%!
    There was not a single fool in the world, except for the Russian Ministry of Defense, willing to pay such money.
    And not found.
    We support the domestic manufacturer-native Uralvagonzavod!
    We feed the giant (half the city takes) unprofitable monster more than our money!
    Uralvagonzavod votes for Putin! Hurray, comrades!
  • gych
    gych 5 May 2013 08: 36
    -3
    Russia is good to insult the technique of Ukraine! Look at your tins
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz 5 May 2013 10: 52
    +4
    Strange triplexes ... Where to look? What in the nape of the tower? :(
    1. Ilyukha
      Ilyukha 5 May 2013 14: 57
      -1
      YESAA ... They may surprise you))
    2. 73petia
      73petia 6 May 2013 03: 48
      0
      Yes hatches like that "photoshop" give. The shadows are not very natural, the hatches on the bottom are too bright.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 5 May 2013 15: 58
    0
    The author simply unveiled a tank booklet advertising booklet. Judging by the sandy color of the paint, many samples are for Africa and the East. There, what during the times of the Union was given for nothing, it still lives in huge quantities and is waiting for modernization. So that they would have had money ... now it’s unlikely that they will distribute it for free
  • Najk
    Najk 5 May 2013 20: 50
    +1
    For Emelya
    Sometimes it is better to read than to speak (otherwise, the Chukchi is not a reader, but a writer). Where did you find and where did you put the CHARGER in the t-64 (any modification) ??? Well, at least use the wiki - heights 64 cm (without cliff)
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 5 May 2013 21: 06
      0
      Quote: NAJK
      Sometimes it is better to read than to speak (otherwise, the Chukchi is not a reader, but a writer).
      I completely agree with this your statement. And it would not hurt you to take your advice, and first read about which tank it was.
  • tomket
    tomket 14 May 2013 01: 25
    +1
    Ukrainians go the wrong way, it’s clear that they are trying to do something, but they don’t have enough money for radical changes, they just don’t want to and do simple fraud. Examples of normal modernization that allows fairly old equipment to be kept up to date are the Israeli Magahi 6 and 7, on one of the modifications they even introduced an ellipsoid tower like the 4 merkava, which is what prevents me from going the same way.