Military Review

The Russian army turned towards the robotic technology

71
With the advent of the former Minister of Emergency Situations Sergey Shoigu as Minister of Defense, the military increasingly began to look to the future, in which the main role will be played by robotic systems of different classes. In this case, we are not talking only about banal UAVs or underwater robots. The Russian military is considering the use of autonomous landing systems and ground combat vehicles. The Airborne Forces is actively interested in inanimate assistants to military personnel and plans to include Tula KBP and Moscow in ambitious projects and programs aviation institute.


The fact that robotic technology in the Russian army should be used as often as possible, Sergei Shoigu said in December last year. 14 December 2012, the new head of EMERCOM of Russia Vladimir Puchkov and Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu visited the 294 th center for conducting special risk operations “Leader”. Here, the ministers examined a number of samples of robotic equipment that are used by Russian rescuers: the Yel-10 and Yel-4 fire-fighting complexes, as well as the LUF-60 remote mobile fire fighting complexes and various sappers. During the visit, Valery Gerasimov, Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia, suggested using systems of this kind in Chechnya.

One of the famous Russian sapper robots today is the mobile robotic complex (ISC) "Varan". RTOs are designed to conduct search, visual reconnaissance and primary diagnosis of suspicious objects for the presence of explosive devices using specialized attachments and television cameras. "Varan" is able to neutralize explosive devices, as well as load them into specialized evacuation containers and perform various technological operations aimed at providing access to the VU.
The Russian army turned towards the robotic technology
Fire-fighting robotic complex El-10

First of all, these robots are aimed at combating terrorism; therefore, they are mainly purchased by the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB and the Emergencies Ministry of Russia. Kovrov Electromechanical Plant is engaged in the production of a sapper robot. Robots of this type are able to clear mines of VU at a distance of 2 kilometers, it can detect it in a car, under a car, and also evacuate a car from a tunnel after an accident. The cost of this kind of technology is about 50 thousand dollars. At the same time, a sapper robot is not just a unit on a caterpillar or wheeled course, it is a whole set of equipment that includes various replaceable mounted devices and manipulators, a control panel, a set of consumable materials and spare parts. The cost of fully equipped Russian robots corresponds to the prices of Western analogues, which often still have to buy additional equipment.

Shortly after the excursion to the center for conducting operations of special risk "Leader", the Russian military started talking about the need to use robots to solve various kinds of tasks. Representatives of the Ministry of Emergency Situations agree with them, according to Irek Khasanov, the head of the fire prevention center, the equipment that is already in service with the Ministry of Emergency Situations will be useful in the army.

Expressed on the use of robots and commanders of various types of troops. Since the Navy is interested in autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicles, the Ground Forces are about to begin the widespread use of reconnaissance UAVs. In this case, the most promising and breakthrough ideas expressed by the commander of the Airborne Forces Vladimir Shamanov. The shaman is not going to be limited to the widespread use of UAVs, he proposes to create robotic airborne systems, as well as autonomous ground combat vehicles. Also, the Ministry of Defense of Russia has already made an order to create a robot to search and evacuate the wounded from the battlefield.
Robot Sapper Varan

The developments of such a rescue robot are reported in the report of the Public Council under the chairman of the Military Industrial Commission. This report is dedicated to the projects of the recently established Advanced Research Foundation. The created robotic complex should be taught to independently find, identify and remove wounded soldiers from the battlefield, as well as to move without problems in various types of terrain and soil, in rooms, as well as along stairs. At the same time, the manipulators of such a robot are planned to be adapted to work with the wounded, who received serious injuries and are in different poses. Transportation of the wounded must be carried out without the risk of causing them additional damage and harm to health.

The St. Petersburg Central Research Institute of Robotics and Technical Cybernetics, which is currently developing a control system for combat robots, can become the main executor of the sanitary robot project. Also among the possible developers call MGTU them. Bauman. In addition to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the new robot can be useful for the Emergencies Ministry units. Previously, advanced mobile reanimation technologies were presented in the Russian surgical complex, created on the basis of the Il-76MD Scalpel-MT transport aircraft. Currently, this aircraft is in service with the EMERCOM of Russia.

In the United States, the creation of a robot to evacuate wounded soldiers from the battlefield is the responsibility of DARPA - the Advanced Research and Development Administration of the US Department of Defense. Prior to that, the Russian Defense Ministry had already announced 2 a tender for the development of an ultrasound cuff to stop bleeding (cipher Bee) and an artificial liver (Prometheus cipher), but later canceled the two tenders. The Foundation for Advanced Studies was established in Russia on the initiative of Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who oversees the defense industry. The fund was established in October last year and is positioned as the domestic equivalent of DARPA. Its main task is to promote high-risk research in the interests of national defense.
Intelligence-impact UAV Dozor-600

Returning to the Airborne Forces, it can be noted that in August 2012 of the year it was announced that the Airborne Forces together with the Tula KBP are going to develop a multifunctional complex with a remotely controlled module based on the machine - BMD-4М. It is assumed that this machine will be autonomous, and the operator will be able to control it from a considerable distance. To realize this idea is relatively easy, especially since Tula KBP is already engaged in the release of BMD-4M robotic combat modules. It is reported that 5 of such machines should go to the troops before the end of this year, and 5 in the 1 quarter of the 2014 of the year. In fact, the only thing that remains to be realized is a remote control system, as well as an all-view review.

The Airborne Forces also have their own vision of a promising airborne assault vehicle, which, according to Shamanov, should represent something between a medium-sized helicopter and a light armored vehicle. Such a machine must independently fly over a distance of 50-100 km, and due to the presence of folding wings, it can easily fit in the Russian Il-76 and An-124 transport planes. Nothing is known about the promising flying BMD.

Most likely, this project will simply not be implemented due to the overall lack of thought and complexity of the design. In the unmanned version, this combat vehicle will not make sense, since even the created UAVs can perform substantially more different tasks in the air. In the manned version, such a BMD can be an excellent target for ambush attacks: while it is transformed into a flight mode, it will spread its wings, spin the screws and gain altitude.
BMD-4M

In the air, such a machine can be very vulnerable to the enemy due to its large size and, most likely, mediocre maneuverability. The use of active systems and self-defense complexes will significantly complicate the design of the apparatus and may lead to an overestimation of the mass of BMD, which is highly undesirable for airborne forces. Finally, to control such a flying BMD, it is necessary to train highly skilled driver-mechanics who will be able to drive a car not only on the ground, but also to control it in the air.

In addition to the robotized combat vehicles, the airborne troops feel the need for landing robots, which can be used to solve a fairly wide range of tasks. In January, 2013, Colonel of the Airborne Forces, Alexander Kucherenko, said that he decided to equip the Russian paratroopers with Shamanov robotics using the example of the Russian Emergencies Ministry. In this case, robots for paratroopers should differ in smaller size and weight. What particular robots are still unknown, but most likely they are sappers, fire extinguishing and surveillance systems.

It is also not excluded that Russian paratroopers could be useful robots that are able to mark the landing sites. In America, UAVs are planned to be used for these needs. In March, the 2013 of the year in the United States has already tested precision guidance systems for transport aircraft. The essence of the systems lies in the fact that the reconnaissance UAV carries out an inspection of the terrain, choosing the places most suitable for transportation of paratroopers and cargoes and marking them with special radio-beaters. Such beacons transmit the exact coordinates of the landing site to the crews of the transport aircraft, and they can also broadcast information about the weather, first of all - the wind. These systems are used for the targeted discharge of cargo, such systems would be very useful for Russian paratroopers in the landing of military equipment, especially in adverse weather conditions.
Combat robot MRK-27

A variety of robotic systems with each new day play an increasing role in the armies of the developed countries of the world, they become an integral part of the conduct of hostilities. These machines are able to perform a number of tasks with much greater accuracy, and also faster than humans. One or another degree of process automation has long been in demand in many operations. For example, in building an air defense (in a fully autonomous mode, a modern Russian C-400 air defense system can function) or reconnaissance. The most active in recent years, robotics used by the US Army: reconnaissance, air strikes using UAVs, observation and reconnaissance, inspection and demining. In Russia, these technologies are currently not so common in the army.

At the same time, the ability of the Russian economy to translate the ideas of the military into the life of a number of experts seems doubtful. Production of the element base, which is a prerequisite for creating reliable, compact and functional electronics, is very poorly developed in Russia today. Also in Russia there is no industry that would be engaged in the manufacture of various kinds of robotic systems, currently a number of enterprises are engaged in these tasks, which work on their own initiative almost without interacting with each other.

Information sources:
-http: //lenta.ru/articles/2013/04/25/robots
-http: //vpk-news.ru/articles/15758
-http: //kovrovskievesti.ru/? p = 9903
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  1. svp67
    svp67 4 May 2013 08: 02
    15
    I'm glad the drone theme has finally gotten a boost. This technique is very necessary in order to protect the lives of our soldiers. So, success to our specialists and I expect that soon in the "victorious" parade on Red Square slender columns of "drones" will pass and fly by
    1. Rustiger
      Rustiger 4 May 2013 09: 13
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Such a technique is very necessary in order to protect the lives of our soldiers.

      There is also such an aspect. Somewhere I read economic calculations for the prerequisites for the development of robotic technology. The bottom line is that as long as the "cost of a living unit" is noticeably lower than the cost of a drone, there will be no reason to use massively equipment. For example, in aviation, pilot training (and the production of a car) is very expensive, and that's where drones are developed in the first place. In the infantry, the "cost" of a fighter is low (relatively), then there are noticeably fewer new "cyborgs" products.
      This is only an opinion, but it is confirmed by numbers.
      Then, if you focus on such reasons, then China, India, Asian and African countries (population) does not make sense to acquire drones at all. But they are very necessary for Iceland, Norway, etc.
      1. svp67
        svp67 4 May 2013 09: 17
        +3
        Quote: Rustiger
        In the infantry, the "cost" of a fighter is low (relatively), then there are noticeably fewer new "cyborgs" products.
        In the ground forces, a drone cannot yet become a full-fledged replacement for an infantryman; their main niche is reconnaissance and strike reconnaissance
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 4 May 2013 09: 32
          +5
          Sapper robots.
          Automatic watchpoints
          Automatic anti-tank systems
          Automatic turrets like the Belarusian "Adunk" - where the operator only indicates the targets, the machine gun works out their defeat.
        2. Rustiger
          Rustiger 4 May 2013 10: 06
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          In the ground forces, a drone cannot yet become a full-fledged replacement for an infantryman

          I would specify - not only in land; and still cannot, if at all, "create" an analogue of the human brain, analyzing simultaneously tens, hundreds of constantly changing factors.
          Tasks for robots are and will be narrowly focused. The most effective (ratio of price /% of successful completion of the task) proved to be ONE-USE devices. But this requires either a particularly important task or low cost, or maybe the number of simultaneously used (the so-called "mosquito fleet").
          1. Justme
            Justme 4 May 2013 17: 03
            +4
            to the account - "..and LONG longer, if at all possible .."here you can disagree - there is a very high dynamics in the development of this direction in the world. It should be noted that in the free access in the world there are mountains of ideas from neural networks, artificial intelligence .. a lot of free available software, chic processors available - generally an amazing situation .. The task is often - you need a beautiful general idea in order to successfully combine everything in the right proportion.

            As for the cost.
            Until recently, I worked at the Space Research Institute for Electronics. The sensation is the endless chewing of snot and emptiness (and this is in the office which has a budget of 2 mln. Rubles).
            Now I work with a private trader - the most complicated projects are baked like pies and this is put on stream .. The private trader appreciates the high quality of the project and the high manufacturability ..
      2. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 5 May 2013 12: 53
        +2
        Quote: Rustiger
        Somewhere I read economic calculations for the prerequisites for the development of robotic technology.


        As far as I know, robotic aircraft are much more complicated than ground equipment.

        It is clear that the more degrees of freedom an object has, the more difficult it is to develop an algorithm of behavior adequate to the object.

        For example, it is possible to roboticly defend a defensive line and it is practically not realistic to robotic assault vehicles to open such a line.

        I don’t know where our people are looking, but I would now be occupied with robotic defense systems, first of all, air defense, then called fortified areas, then borders. He would minimize human participation in the protection of all perimeters, and he would redirect people to active actions.
    2. APOCALIPTIC
      APOCALIPTIC 4 May 2013 20: 18
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      I'm glad the drone theme has finally gotten a boost. This technique is very necessary in order to protect the lives of our soldiers. So, success to our specialists and I expect that soon in the "victorious" parade on Red Square slender columns of "drones" will pass and fly by

      So all the time they were convincing that drones to disperse the Papuans or what? what
      1. Nick
        Nick 4 May 2013 22: 15
        +1
        Quote: APOCALIPTIC
        So all the time they were convincing that drones to disperse the Papuans or what?

        Maybe someone expressed a similar opinion and what?
    3. beech
      beech 4 May 2013 21: 11
      +1
      yes yes yes, there is everything current at the exhibitions ... I was a witness to a truck accident (turned upside down, blocked the driver) they waited for the Ministry of Emergency Situations for an hour, some muddy drunks arrived in special uniforms of the Ministry of Emergency Situations with one crowbar, firefighters arrived whose car broke down before 20 m to the place (then they repaired it for about 2 hours). in short they sent nah..y all these rescuers and did the job on their own (thanks for the guys who were repairing the bridge nearby: they had a grinder, they sawed the cabin while cutting). Well, at least the ambulance didn’t let us down.
      This I mean that in fact there is everything, but in fact there is nothing.
    4. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 5 May 2013 12: 44
      0
      Quote: svp67
      I'm glad the drone theme has finally gotten a boost. This technique is very necessary in order to protect the lives of our soldiers. So that our success


      There the field is not plowed. Just give me the money. And the best part is that the generation of people who have grown up on computer games and science fiction films is growing up, who will receive an engineering education and go to work in the defense industry. Then someone will feel sick, from Russian drones.
  2. Professor
    Professor 4 May 2013 08: 17
    16
    The Russian army turned towards the robotic technology

    It's time.
    More robots, less than two hundred.
    1. Rustiger
      Rustiger 4 May 2013 13: 02
      +2
      Quote: Professor
      More robots, less than two hundred.


      http://i0.x8.net/2/KR_B.jpeg?1367657192

      "plus" put for "understatement" - "... less than two hundred side-tattered during the destruction of the" Pales "quarters!"and "... Buy Israeli!"

      I can't resist the quote: "
      “The Russians do not know how to ask, considering it humiliation, and they themselves are humiliated and poor anyway. We say: "Any humiliation is a blessing if it is beneficial." For the sake of achieving the goal, you can humiliate yourself, you can humiliate yourself with dignity too. There are no immoral things if they contribute to the establishment and prosperity of our people. The end sanctifies the means.>
      <No matter what you say, it matters how you say it. Your self-confidence will be perceived as conviction, ambition as the elevation of the mind, the manner of teaching and correcting as superiority. Twist their brains, pump up their nerves! Suppress the will of those who object to you. Compromise upstarts and screamers, set the pride of the crowd on skeptics. In conversations and disputes, use rhetorical techniques that are on the verge of decency. Ask for the name, place of work, position of the doubter and objector. This tends to shock and intimidate them and they retreat. Demand answers, and having received them, repeat without analyzing the essence: "This is not so, it is not so at all!"

      If some clever guy tries to expose you, the rest will not listen to him and will condemn him, because by exposing you, he caught them stupid, and the crowd does not forgive.>

      / The memorable catechism /

      Do not answer, no time to read. I have pre-holiday chores.
      I don’t congratulate the "professor," but the rest with pleasure.
      With the upcoming HOLIDAY !!! CHRIST IS RISEN!
      there are no atheists
      1. Professor
        Professor 4 May 2013 13: 27
        +7
        I don’t congratulate the "professor," but the rest with pleasure.

        Just not that, I won’t survive. laughing

        Quote: Rustiger
        Remember the case with the amerovskoy "show-off" drone, which was hijacked by "Iranian" hackers, who swear at coordinating their actions by a simple telephone, ON RUSSIAN, and planted between the mountains. And they could in the Astrakhan region, if there was enough fuel.

        You are a young man an absolute amateur who does not understand a penny in the topic under discussion. Only a complete ignoramus like you can compare a cheap commercial software product with cryptology in military equipment. But even such a simple product like Skype, no one (including the Chinese special services) was able to crack and were therefore forced to ban it. A similar situation developed in Russia, but it turned out to be the case, Skype was bought by one well-known company that kindly provided codes to special services.
        In your opinion, Iran has a lot of development for Russia which could not crack the Georgian UAVs, but Iran could? Rave. fool
        1. Rustiger
          Rustiger 4 May 2013 15: 00
          0
          Quote: Professor
          You are a young man an absolute amateur who does not understand a penny in the topic under discussion. Only a complete ignoramus like you can compare a cheap commercial software product with cryptology in military equipment.

          Where can I get me with TWO "TOWER" (true technical) to "HIGHLY" Ivers.
          Already let me have an "intellectual pause" -
          1.Ignorant - A poorly mannered person with bad manners.
          2.Ignorance - a person is poorly educated. not knowing well-known objects.
          Yes, I’ll take and agree with both points in relation to me, even with the statement “youth”, although everything is relative (in comparison with idols about. EasterI am the embryo (?))

          About hacking resources like "skype" is a topic for a separate bazaar; not here, not now. In my achievements (may the local modders not hear me), PENETRATION to the resource the food. dot. Tatars. RU. (eng.). T-s-sssss. . . Of course with consequences for me.
          Quote: Professor
          it turned out to be the case, Skype was bought by one well-known company that kindly provided codes to special services.

          Personally, I have not heard. Too lazy to look, just a reference. . .

          PS I'm not "cheap commercial software product" compared, and the vulnerability of prog. provision and its worldwide availability. You can "thank" your fellow tribesmen Suckerberg and Brin
          Your vaunted "internationalaglism" in action. ... ...

          "Georgian UAVs" -?
          Was für ein Wunder es? Sagen Sie uns bitte, und ich weiß es nicht.
          Wenn sie Zeit haben, sie zu machen hatte?
          1. Professor
            Professor 4 May 2013 15: 14
            +1
            I was not comparing a "cheap commercial software product", but the vulnerability of prog. provision and its worldwide availability.

            There are different softwares, and your opus about UAVs which was hijacked by "Iranian" hackers, swearing coordinating their actions by a simple telephone, in RUSSIAN and planted between the mountains just a masterpiece. I suppose they just hypnotized him. What do you think? wink

            Personally, I have not heard. Too lazy to look, just a reference. . .

            laughing

            "Georgian UAVs" -?
            Was für ein Wunder es? Sagen Sie uns bitte, und ich weiß es nicht.
            Wenn sie Zeit haben, sie zu machen hatte?

            Yes Yes. Those that General Shamanov mentioned. Were they really Martian UAVs? wassat
            1. Rustiger
              Rustiger 4 May 2013 15: 49
              -6
              Judging by the "volume of my own quotes and the number of" yellow dancers "in response to a unit of" monitor area ", our" joint "evening turned into a languid one.
              Maybe a quote. ... ... ? Nooo? Yes, your will, as you wish (right, no, did you say?) Ask Dina Rubin, an "expert" in the RUSSIAN language, damn her took registered for istеoric. . .
              Sorry, but the matzo is not skillful, accept, at least

              http://hedrook.vho.org/volot/

              PS Didn't you think to come back? Until the Persians "lit" you bright green for 500 years? Russia will need brainy engineers! Berllazarku nah. ... ... This is a must !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
              1. Professor
                Professor 4 May 2013 15: 54
                +5
                Maybe a quote. . . ? Nooo?

                Have you asked for a quote? Somehow I missed this moment, I saw your complaints about "too lazy to look", but did not notice your request.

                Sorry, but the matzo is not skillful, accept, at least

                http://hedrook.vho.org/volot/

                Is this nonsense related to the issue under discussion?

                You would have developed the idea of ​​how the Persians planted an American UAV, and I’ll look for you a link about Skype. wink

                PS
                1. FSB proposes to ban Skype and Gmail in Russia
                2. In Russia, special services have been listening to Skype for a long time. Without a court order, “just by request” at Microsoft
                Two years later, the Russian special services themselves were trying to force Microsoft to transfer the encryption algorithms to the FSB to Skype. In 2011, the head of the FSB information security and special communications center, Alexander Andreechkin, proposed banning the popular Skype, as well as the American mail services Gmail and Hotmail, using foreign encryption algorithms, seeing them as a threat to national security, the New Region reported. Thus, the security services admitted that they can not control correspondence and communication on these resources.
                After Microsoft bought Skype in May 2011, the FSB turned to the new owners, citing their declared thesis that the main principle of the corporation’s work in the Russian Federation is “cooperation and partnership with the state”. Microsoft previously opened the FSB source code for many software products. However, there was a hitch with Skype. The FSB never got access to the negotiations of the service users (at least officially). For Microsoft, the loss of Skype status as an “anonymous” and secure communication system meant major financial losses and an outflow of system users. However, a year later, the "Microsoft" surrendered. In the summer of 2012, a Skype representative in Russia said that now the company is "cooperating with law enforcement agencies as far as legally and technically possible." Skype did not disclose exactly what information and about whom it is being transmitted to the authorities. Google, which also could not refuse to cooperate with special services, publishes data about requests every six months.
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                  1. Professor
                    Professor 4 May 2013 20: 30
                    +2
                    And besides verbal diarrhea and a couple of letters in a foreign language on the topic, there is something to say? wink
            2. Rustiger
              Rustiger 4 May 2013 19: 56
              -9
              Quote: Professor
              Those that General Shamanov mentioned.

              I ask you not to dirty (mention in vain) memory of OFFICER SHAMANOV !!!
              Otherwise, I will drag you to Israel and drown any "former SSSER".
              A thousand times I speak almost in Tyr-Tarsk "Or to Russia or under the" Persian bonba ". Choose, bloodsuckers....
              You somehow feel the difference where to do without pilots. . .
              1. Professor
                Professor 4 May 2013 20: 34
                +8
                I will ask you not to dirty (mention in vain) the memory of OFFICER SHAMANOV !!!

                Memory? Are you raving God grant for many years to Vladimir Anatolyevich, he will outlive you, worry for yourself because I see the mind leaves you. fool
                1. YuDDP
                  YuDDP 5 May 2013 00: 32
                  +4
                  Quote: Professor
                  worry for yourself because I see the mind leaves you.

                  Yes, somehow "flattens and sausages" Rustaiger from the Jewish theme. Shame on all honest people ...
            3. Geisenberg
              Geisenberg 5 May 2013 13: 02
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              I suppose they just hypnotized him. What do you think? wink


              This is not true laughing . Hypnosis is not necessary here. They just intercepted the data exchange, decrypted, suppressed a more powerful signal ...
              1. Professor
                Professor 5 May 2013 13: 43
                0
                Quote: Geisenberg
                They just intercepted the data exchange, decrypted, suppressed a more powerful signal ...

                Money for fish again? It is practically impossible to intercept data exchange since it occurs in an encrypted sequence over the entire frequency spectrum (over a broadband channel). In order to decrypt, dozens of years of operation of the most powerful computers and cool cryptologists are necessary. Suppressing more powerful signals is not realistic at all, for this the transmitter must be physically located between the UAV and the communication satellite. hi
        2. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 5 May 2013 12: 59
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          In your opinion, Iran has a lot of development for Russia which could not crack the Georgian UAVs, but Iran could? Rave. fool


          Why is nonsense ?? It's just that in the Russian Federation it does not occur to anyone to send a drone. Moreover, they will take away so much and make copies.
  3. kudwar68
    kudwar68 4 May 2013 08: 47
    +1
    We need very, especially small-sized, reconnaissance UAVs, for mountainous, wooded areas. Bearded animals with guns to track.
  4. Delink
    Delink 4 May 2013 08: 56
    +1
    I hope they will be better than SyShyA and Israel. And miniature is nice to have
    1. Sleptsoff
      Sleptsoff 4 May 2013 09: 58
      -1
      Alas, in the near future they won’t be because of the technical stuffing, I’m more than sure that these drones are full of ... The United States in this area is ahead of the rest and are not going to give up leadership. They are already experiencing two-legged robots.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 4 May 2013 10: 03
        +7
        Looks like they already have them. They are sitting at the computers and fooling all loyal nonsense.
        1. Sleptsoff
          Sleptsoff 6 May 2013 11: 24
          0
          This is not rubbish, I just look at things realistically, without bias.
        2. Sleptsoff
          Sleptsoff 23 May 2013 16: 39
          -1
          Welcome to our ranks!
      2. ultra
        ultra 5 May 2013 19: 32
        0
        Quote: Sleptsoff
        They are already experiencing two-legged robots.

        When they begin to experience one-legged, We acknowledge complete defeat! lol
  5. runway
    runway 4 May 2013 09: 04
    +2
    It is still fresh in the memory of the time when the United States was catching up with us in various areas of military technology development. Now we, only now, are starting to make drones, already decades behind us .... Painfully our "Dozor" looks like their "Drone". And what about the performance characteristics? How close are we in our development to their car? What percussion systems can our apparatus carry, or can it only patrol?
    1. Rustiger
      Rustiger 4 May 2013 09: 50
      -4
      Quote: piston
      It is still fresh in the memory of the time when the USA was catching up with us in various areas of the development of military equipment. Now we, only now, are starting to make drones, already decades behind ....


      Set aside PANIC!
      Shchaa I'll "raise your self-esteem", lieutenant!
      Imagine the situevina. One develops a product, spends intellectual and material resources on it, tries to promote it to the market, etc., while the other just took and took / stole / hijacked it, picked it out at a screw and spanked such (or similar) thousands. ("experience" of the Kitais)
      Original comp. programs, for example graphics, are very expensive, from thousands of rubles, but the markets sell "pirate" discs with several (!!!) programs on one at a price of 90-120 rubles. Believe me, they work no worse, I myself use the downloaded torrents.
      One develops a means of protecting the computer. systems from unauthorized access, another "in one evening", smoking a pack of cigarettes, gives out a cracked version or "malware" by the morning, clogging up expensive protection and bypassing / destroying fancy "firewalls". And this escalation began with the advent of computers.
      The weakest point of ALL robotic systems is their software. Why would anyone spend efforts on the development and manufacture of an aircraft, when you can try to take it under control and do with it what you want yourself.
      Remember the case with the amerovskoy "show-off" drone, which was hijacked by "Iranian" hackers, swearing coordinating their actions on a simple telephone, in RUSSIAN and planted in between the mountains. And they could in the Astrakhan region, if there was enough fuel. laughing
      Then the amers for a long time begged for their "cool" apparatus from the Persians, in the end they got back an empty shell. We were forced to abandon such copies, or to make additional efforts to "fine-tune". But the whole world saw the weaknesses of this direction.
      Of course, I do not want to say that Russia should not be engaged in the production of its own "drones". But there is a saying "what one can do, the other can break / steal"
      Something like this . . . soldier
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 5 May 2013 01: 28
        +1
        Quote: Rustiger
        Imagine the situevina. One develops a product, spends intellectual and material resources on it, tries to promote it to the market, etc., while the other just took and took / stole / hijacked it, picked it out at a screw and spanked such (or similar) thousands. ("experience" of the Kitais)

        Che, the Chinese are not good at copying. But what about production methods? Here, disassembling the car will not help! And the scientific principles?
  6. Ak 12
    Ak 12 4 May 2013 09: 20
    +1
    It’s high time for us to switch to UAVs. I’m glad that Shoigu touched on this topic.
  7. luiswoo
    luiswoo 4 May 2013 09: 25
    +1
    In my opinion, “robotic” implies a certain independence, which corresponds to the C-400 or cruise missile. As far as human-remotely controlled units are concerned with “robots,” it’s not entirely clear to me.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 May 2013 09: 34
      +2
      In them, not everything is done by man. Your computer is also controlled by you. However, most processes are processed automatically.
      1. luiswoo
        luiswoo 4 May 2013 13: 24
        0
        Well, yes, in a "demining robot", a person does not control each drive separately. But his “brain” is the operator. Any movement requires his team. This is essentially a hand tool, not a robot. An example with a PC is unsuccessful - it is able to perform assigned tasks even without “laying” between the chair and the monitor.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 5 May 2013 01: 29
          0
          Quote: luiswoo
          yes, in the “robot” for mine clearing, a person does not control each drive separately. But his “brain” is the operator. Any movement requires his team. This is essentially a hand tool, not a robot. An example with a PC is unsuccessful - it is able to perform assigned tasks even without “laying” between the chair and the monitor.

          Let's just say a PC performs limited tasks.
  8. Vako
    Vako 4 May 2013 10: 08
    +2
    About the element base just noticed!
  9. Canep
    Canep 4 May 2013 10: 21
    0
    Quote: VaKo
    Intelligence-impact UAV Dozor-600
    Again, the Americans are sketching.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 May 2013 10: 26
      +2
      Quote: Canep
      Again, the Americans are sketching.

      The Israelites. But do not worry, the Americans are also copying them.
  10. Justme
    Justme 4 May 2013 10: 27
    +4
    I would like to recall one feature of the developments made in the Soviet era.
    When I got to the research institute, SKB found out that often the initial elaboration of projects was done in decent universities like MVTU, MAI ..
    Sufficient resources were given to these universities and there were always people with qualifications and self-motivation, and there was a return from them. That was all worth using again.

    And in order not to have different interpretations - as if something like this is already being done - we can give an example from the present



    This is a banal discharge of money from the leadership of their friends from lousy provincial universities
  11. B_KypTke
    B_KypTke 4 May 2013 11: 36
    -1
    Well, if military design thought has swung towards robotics, then this is even to our advantage. Robotics is primarily software, and this is exactly where we are ahead of the rest, because most of the programmers in this fucking valley of theirs are our compatriots. Bauman University School rules. Our simple and ingenious algorithms have long been admired by the computer world. This is my opinion.
  12. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 4 May 2013 11: 53
    +4
    In one of the previous discussions, the distinguished Professor pointed out the observance of a reasonable balance, without hatred. So, I would like to learn something new and encouraging about the development, namely, the element base based on domestic software and processor equipment. Dear forum users, if you have such information, do not consider for labor to share, as permitted, with the ignorant! He set the article +, for the topic is topical.
    1. El13
      El13 4 May 2013 15: 52
      +1
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/5520/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/9078/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/18709/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/20202/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27211/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/27675/
      http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/29578/
      1. Justme
        Justme 4 May 2013 17: 43
        +1
        The devil is in the details as always ..
        Where we practically produce our masterpieces - as I understand it - Taiwan, Germany .. and only in the future with us (on new lines).
        If you look closely at the pictures - the question arises on memory chips - obviously they are not ours ..
        The Altera inscription is a "bundle" (not ours ..) and this is also not a small degree of integration.
        Everywhere small "cubes" are capacitors. It may not make an impression, but what the Belarusian "Rezonit" produces is extremely inadequate for modern processors - small-sized ceramics of the X7R class with a capacity of 1 μF or more are needed.
        The yellow "bricks" are electrolytic capacitors (most likely Kermet) Our nearest ones - K53-22 look like a stone age (although the parameters are not much worse ..)
        Such trifles are usually ignored - but if you strictly follow the prohibitions, for a developer it is such a "crap" ..
        1. El13
          El13 4 May 2013 18: 30
          0
          You are absolutely right, but not zero, far from zero.
      2. fzr1000
        fzr1000 4 May 2013 17: 44
        +3
        Have you read the comments? There are many people in the "topic"? Elbrus is made on the basis of Taiwanese chips. We can only do up to 180 nanometers, and for "Elbrus" you need 40 nan. And at Mikron they are just going to introduce 65 nan.
        1. El13
          El13 4 May 2013 18: 29
          0
          Yes, I read ... everything. But you must admit that over time we will master the technology of printing the chip, now we, of course, are lagging behind Intel and other rhinos, but the process went and went pretty quickly. But the technology for designing a complex universal processor is much more important, and we already have it.
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 4 May 2013 18: 51
            +3
            "The one who has taken a step is on the way."
          2. ultra
            ultra 5 May 2013 16: 35
            +1
            Quote: El13
            But you must admit that over time we will master the chip printing technology
            This is the main problem! We do not produce the appropriate lithographic equipment! hi
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 4 May 2013 18: 56
          +3
          Intel is about to move to 10, and then 7 and 5.
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 4 May 2013 19: 29
            +1
            But "our processor" does not heat up. Wait, give time, maybe we will catch up.
            1. uzer 13
              uzer 13 4 May 2013 20: 18
              -1
              In addition, it is assembled on lamps, which further increases its reliability. The enemies will not be too good!
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 4 May 2013 22: 26
                -1
                It’s something in you collected on the lamps ...
                1. uzer 13
                  uzer 13 5 May 2013 01: 35
                  -1
                  Previously, we used K300 controllers in production. The processors were domestic, copied from foreign ones, of the k548 series, if the memory does not change, paired with a multiplexer. Now they are abandoned, only Siemens or Japanese are used. Before boasting, it would be nice and portray something yourself. You seem to be trying to solder a domestic processor from transistors that were collected in a landfill near the radio factory, in a garage on your knee. I wish you success in this matter.
                  1. El13
                    El13 5 May 2013 10: 23
                    +1
                    On "Elbrus" you would at least bother to read, or even better to study the history of the issue - this is entirely our development and history has been going on since Soviet times - this collective is the legal successor of those who made the first computers entirely domestic (including tube ones), and not on seamless competitors. And for the penultimate sentence minus from me.
                  2. ultra
                    ultra 5 May 2013 16: 38
                    +2
                    Quote: uzer 13
                    The processors there were domestic, copied from foreign, k548 series, if the memory does not change, paired with a multiplexer.

                    This is a pearl !!!! Do you even have an idea about the 548 series IC, these are generally analog microcircuits! am
                    1. El13
                      El13 5 May 2013 17: 51
                      0
                      He had in mind the 580th series ...
              2. ultra
                ultra 5 May 2013 16: 30
                +1
                Quote: uzer 13
                In addition, it is assembled on lamps, which further increases its reliability. The enemies will not be too good!

                This is your brains on the lamps! am
  13. a jacket
    a jacket 4 May 2013 13: 23
    0
    Quote: svp67
    In the ground forces, a drone cannot yet become a full-fledged replacement for an infantryman; their main niche is reconnaissance and strike reconnaissance

    The territory is considered conquered only when the infantryman's eggs hang over it. They told us that.
    1. Dmitry 2246
      Dmitry 2246 4 May 2013 16: 43
      +1
      But now people with disabilities will be able to return to the army.
      We will fight from home.
      We have military education, we have combat experience, and we will create special conditions for the house.
  14. Thomas A. Anderson
    Thomas A. Anderson 4 May 2013 15: 15
    0
    An impact UAV should develop speeds close to 1000 km / h, be able to maneuver automatically in critical situations, have a flight range of 7000 km and a stay time in the air of more than 24 hours. By the way, if you achieve more or less normal maneuverability, then Air-to-air missiles are very handy, you can shoot down a similar one or a helicopter at a distance, even a slowly flying plane.
    By the way, sooo similar here, but the schemes of the "flying wing" type, etc. nonsense with tales of the unknown.
    Avenger UAV, powerful piece
    And the combat robot MRK-27, when finalized and controlled at a distance of 50 km, is a worthwhile thing
  15. Nikolay-
    Nikolay- 4 May 2013 16: 01
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    Only a complete ignoramus like you can compare a cheap commercial software product with cryptology in military technology

    In the sense here - "ignorant" should be
    1. Professor
      Professor 4 May 2013 16: 04
      +3
      Quote: Nikolay-
      Quote: Professor
      Only a complete ignoramus like you can compare a cheap commercial software product with cryptology in military technology

      In the sense here - "ignorant" should be

      corrected hi
  16. wk
    wk 4 May 2013 18: 52
    +1
    here, somewhere I read on Runet open spaces in a subject:

    ////// Managers of the new wave: mountain managers together with mountain analysts destroyed this system under the auspices of private inventions that “wars will be non-contact”, “we have too many tanks”, “tank armies are not needed”, “success provide automated control systems ”, etc. It would probably be worthwhile to remind the old military axiom that “the territory is not considered occupied if the soldier’s foot hasn’t stepped on it”, and nowadays - the wheels and tracks of military vehicles.

    At the same time, a contactless war becomes contact and erroneous thoughts and political errors can easily be knocked out by a butt strike on the head of a manager or analyst. Indeed, the soldier-invader, due to insufficient education and horizons, may not know that wars can be contactless. Unfortunately, many forget that history has the sad property of repeating itself in its worst manifestations. And in the world around us, one does not feel a general peacefulness, an increase in political thoughtlessness, and sometimes openly insolent disregard for Russia's position in interstate relations.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 May 2013 19: 55
      +4
      What you found is also essentially rubbish. Only a different polarity.

      Future wars are contact. Tank armies are needed. But at the same time, it is precisely the automated control systems that will ensure success.

      Greater intensity, greater depth of fire, more chaos, leading edge, like a layered cake. One cannot do without ASUV.
      1. wk
        wk 4 May 2013 21: 14
        +1
        this text does not reject ASUV, but only warns against excesses ..... in addition, it is taken on a specific tank topic .... and Rogozin’s deliberate statement on ATGMs was recalled ... no one talks about their uselessness (ATGMs), but the statements of a person of this level should be more balanced.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 4 May 2013 21: 18
          +2
          Yes, it’s necessary without excesses. Need to work. And do not do nonsense. Now they are going to restore the Taman and Kantemirov divisions. What for? Unclear. They would have brought the brigades to mind. Provided a complete management system. And these are all experimenting.
  17. individual
    individual 4 May 2013 19: 32
    0
    It is not only the development and creation of domestic UAVs. The main thing is a new idea for the industrial development of the military-industrial complex. Any developments will force us to apply applied science, and additional financing will take a step towards removing our economy from a stupor. It is time to actively move away from the raw material component of Russia's development. It is necessary to develop an energy-intensive industry, for our self-sufficient country, this is quite within our means. Political will is needed. Oil and gas revenues do not allow a healthy, nationally oriented economy to be created. Economic relations cannot be built in the hope of high oil and gas prices. Indeed, during our lifetime, the collusion of the United States with the Saudis and their vassals collapsed in energy prices and we received empty store shelves, a collapse of the economy and the collapse of the great idea of ​​the USSR. Together with the state of the USSR.
  18. uzer 13
    uzer 13 4 May 2013 20: 11
    -1
    UAVs, in general, should have appeared earlier than about 20 years old. Here the weapons-industrial complex worked poorly, without taking into account the promising areas of aviation development, which greatly surprises me. The future belongs to unmanned aerial vehicles, and they already fly with might and main are passenger liners which can do without pilots. In the fighters of the near future, man is an extra detail that limits the combat capabilities of the aircraft. You can say the same thing about tanks. The crew still can’t see anything, in many cases you could get by with the remote control. But as long as soldiers are cheaper than remote control devices, there is no need to wait for change.
    1. ultra
      ultra 5 May 2013 19: 39
      +1
      They appeared thirty years ago with a hook back! hi
  19. 120352
    120352 4 May 2013 21: 20
    0
    Robotization is good, albeit with a noticeable delay. But this is not enough! It is necessary, and I have repeatedly written about this, to create computer parts in order to change the trajectories of enemy missiles, destroy their software, upload false information (misinformation) to the network. A war can be won without bloodshed at all. Zeroing the bank accounts of the enemy state - the war will end! War is an expensive pleasure and without financial resources it is not feasible.
    1. uzer 13
      uzer 13 5 May 2013 01: 17
      0
      You are absolutely right. But while we are gathering, this has already been done in some places. There are facts of massive information attacks that can be organized only with the support of the state. The same can be said about the media, especially if we recall the conflict with Georgia. And not the military parts need to be created, and analytical centers in which there would be departments for collecting information. analysis and technical implementation of solutions.
  20. UFO
    UFO 4 May 2013 21: 38
    +1
    In my opinion, here are 3 of the most useful comments:
    Quote: Rustiger
    Set aside PANIC!

    Quote: El13
    But you must admit that over time we will master the technology of printing the chip, now we, of course, are lagging behind Intel and other rhinos, but the process went and went pretty quickly. But the technology for designing a complex universal processor is much more important, and we already have it.

    Quote: fzr1000
    "The one who has taken a step is on the way."

    The topic is extensive, from chips to exoskeletons and drones, if you go through the details, you can give birth to a thesis. But I wanted to raise 2 questions: while the "red bug" (surrounded by CIA personnel worked) is sitting on the NANO processes, we, for obvious reasons, will lag behind; and the second - why not crank up the same "fraud" as VVP did with the world auto industry giants - to localize various world-class electronics production on the territory of Russia.
    All a happy holiday !!! fellow
  21. poquello
    poquello 4 May 2013 22: 24
    +1
    The Airborne Forces also have their own vision of a promising airborne assault vehicle, which, according to Shamanov, should represent something between a medium-sized helicopter and a light armored vehicle. Such a machine must independently fly over a distance of 50-100 km, and due to the presence of folding wings, it can easily fit in the Russian Il-76 and An-124 transport planes. Nothing is known about the promising flying BMD.

    Most likely, this project simply will not be implemented due to the general lack of thought and the complexity of the design.

    And where did the flying saucers go which small passenger planes were going to replace?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 4 May 2013 22: 27
      0
      Quote: poquello
      Most likely, this project simply will not be implemented due to the general lack of thought and the complexity of the design.

      Such a machine already existed: Mi-24. Fasten the folding blades only
  22. tomich
    tomich 4 May 2013 23: 21
    +2
    Also in Russia there is no industry that would manufacture various kinds of robotic systems; at present, a number of enterprises are engaged in these tasks, which work on their own initiative with almost no interaction with each other.


    that says it all
    1. Justme
      Justme 5 May 2013 19: 52
      0
      The question is - is this necessary? .. is this an industry? ..

      Here I work in the space industry
      Now we are already starting with the chief - a dumb party and not competence ..
      Somehow, the former head of ROSKOSMOS came across in the corridors - it seems that he was also a brain-mopper ..

      We need capable enterprises with competent leadership and engineering staff ..
  23. piksel
    piksel 5 May 2013 01: 17
    0
    I am glad that at least some work in this direction is underway. With the element base, it is necessary to solve the problem for the full provision of oneself with beloved domestic products.
    1. uzer 13
      uzer 13 5 May 2013 01: 45
      0
      That's just the point, in this very elemental base. Even the analogue of MOSFET has not been done, let alone the rest.
      1. Justme
        Justme 5 May 2013 21: 04
        0
        Why is there so much noise about the element base? ..
        Indeed, now the situation is - pay money and get the processor core from ARM, for example, Cortex-M3 on Verilog-e, similarly to a flash unit, .. RAM, .. special peripherals obviously need to be done by ourselves. Chips can be made in Taiwan so far (they are trying to switch to Zelenograd ..)

        http://habrahabr.ru/post/178547/
  24. gggif
    gggif 5 May 2013 02: 43
    0
    Well then, the Shaman suffered laughing
  25. gggif
    gggif 5 May 2013 02: 48
    0
    Mobile robotic complex MRK-27 BT

    MRK-27 BT

    Designed for firing from a retractable position on moving and fixed firing points of the enemy, as well as on various objects, buildings and structures using small arms, grenade launchers and flamethrower weapons.

    The use of MRK-27 BT in the course of hostilities is intended to provide the possibility of solving combat missions in conditions where the participation of human forces without loss is limited or practically impossible.
    Composition:

    - tracked chassis with variable geometry of the caterpillar contour;
    - weapons platform;
    - control system;
    - operator post;
    - 4 color cameras;
    - microphone;
    - lighting system;
    - armored kit;
    mounted technological, special and military equipment;
    - a set of additional military equipment (as agreed)

    Armament:

    - Machine gun 6P41 "Pecheneg" cal. 7., 62 mm with 100 rounds of ammunition - 1 pc;
    - RShG-2 cal. 76 mm - 2 pcs;
    - RPO "Bumblebee" cal. 93 mm - 2 pcs;
    - Smoke cluster grenades (DKG) type mortar KRAG - 6 pcs.
  26. Best novel
    Best novel 5 May 2013 18: 27
    0
    The topic of a robot for evacuating the wounded was recently discussed and, in my opinion, the majority recognized it as complete nonsense (there was also about an artificial liver and something else that is extremely necessary today). Sapper robots, yes, of course, are needed, and they are and work ( improve) - but everything else, against the background of insecurity with simple modern types of weapons and equipment, personally reminds me of "who wants to become a millionaire" or "wherever for..check a couple of billions, so that there would be no sense, and where did the money go nobody understood. "
  27. EDA2000
    EDA2000 8 May 2013 15: 11
    0
    Until machine intelligence is inferior to human intelligence, there will be no large-scale use of robotic systems in a full-scale war, and when this is created, a person will simply become superfluous and not only in war, but in general superfluous. I can hardly imagine why a highly intelligent robot (cyborg) should save a less intelligent creature on its own initiative. Out of love for the creator? and any coercion will end in a rebellion of machines.
  28. gridasov
    gridasov 30 June 2013 23: 09
    0
    The key elements that determine the country's future defense are fundamental discoveries in the fields of physics and mathematics. Mathematics can explain and create analytical information systems based on the coding of information as numbers. Physics will allow the adjacent development vector with mathematics to understand and reproduce those physical effects and phenomena that are hidden behind the evidence of perception and the unlikely that it will be detected by purely experimental means. This is because the area of ​​low-potential interactions has been studied enough, which is the result of the obviousness of the perception of these physical. phenomena. High-potential phenomena are fleeting in the process of executing their algorithm. Therefore, new physical phenomena will be discovered and mastered only on the basis of improving analysis as new forms of perception and, therefore, accumulation, storage and processing of encoded mathematical information.
    Methods have already been discovered and the concepts of devices more efficient than vane engines, including turbines, as well as more efficient than engines based on jet propulsion principles, have been sufficiently analyzed and scientifically substantiated. Everything else exists as divorced from concordance in interaction with the environment and therefore is energy-consuming and has no prospect of using interconversion of energy in high-energy processes. And everything is much simpler.