Military Review

Conqueror of the Caucasus Prince Pavel Dmitrievich Tsitsianov. Assault ganja

81
Tsitsianov became an excellent governor for the Caucasus. He was decisive, firm, seething energy combined with a sharp mind, the experience of a combat officer with the qualities of an experienced manager. The Georgian prince became the person responsible before the emperor for a huge region. He was tasked with ensuring the security of the state border of the empire and the expansion of Russia's influence in the Caucasus.


Even before his arrival in Georgia from the Caucasian fortified line, the tsar's governor did a great deal of diplomatic work, concluding friendship agreements with many mountain rulers — Shamkhal Tarkovsky, Avar and Talysh khans, and other rulers. Tsitsianov far from always resorted to violence, solving Caucasian affairs. He showed himself a great diplomat. Beks, princes and khans were given Russian officer ranks, paid a permanent salary from the treasury, were awarded orders, personalized gifts.

Tsitsianov immediately tried to solve the problem of protecting the Georgian lands from the raids of Lezghins. For this purpose, three fortifications were erected, which covered the Georgian capital. These fortifications became the strongholds of the empire in the newly acquired land.

In Eastern Georgia itself, Tsitsianov immediately went to drastic measures: Kartli and Kakheti became a Russian province, the monarchy was abolished here, and the royal family was sent to Voronezh. Thus, he immediately stopped all possibilities for separatism at the root. The widowed tsarina Maria Georgievna (she was Tsitsianova’s cousin herself) and her children were sent to Voronezh. What could cause scruples in such matters, shows an example of Tsarevich Alexander Iraklievich, who claimed the Georgian throne. He and his comrades fled to the Lezgins. Then became the "ally" of Persia. After that, he spent three decades guiding the Persians in Georgia and the Highlanders who were guided by them, and made contacts with the nobility who was displeased with the status quo.

During the expulsion of Tsaritsa Maria Georgievna, a very sad incident occurred. This person in every way delayed the time of departure, apparently hoping to escape or wait for a change in the political situation. Tsitsianov repeatedly sent General Lazarev to her to persuade her to go to the Russian Empire. When the queen once again refused, citing poor health. Lazarev ordered the officers to carry the queen on the couch. However, women were armed with daggers and began to resist. Lazarev, according to an eyewitness to the events, Major General Sergei Tuchkov, entered the room. When the queen saw him, she said: “How do you unmercifully deal with me! See how sick I am. What a fever I have! ”And she gave him her left hand, as soon as he took it, she hit her right sideways with a dagger and pierced him through. Lazarev died. The death of this combat general was extremely disgraceful. Queen Maria was imprisoned in the Voronezh Belogorsk Monastery, then released to Moscow, where she died 81-year.

It should be noted that, despite the dissatisfaction of the local nobility, who were deprived of the right to self-rule over the local population, and many mountain feudal lords were deprived of the opportunity to carry out predatory raids, for the majority of the Caucasian population, Russian power became a blessing. She carried the progress, the elimination of many negative phenomena. People got the opportunity to live a peaceful life, without the constant threat of invasion, raids, taking people into slavery. Ordinary people had a very hard time under the rule of autocratic feudal lords. As the Caucasian governor Yermolov wrote in 1817, seeing in the behavior of the Caucasian feudal lords one of the reasons for the indignation of the population: “The khanates, who shame us with their being, torment me. Management hanami is an image of the initial education of society. Here is a sample of the absurd, villainous autocracy and all the debauchery destroying humanity ... ”

Expansion of the Russian presence in the Caucasus. Counteraction against Persia, Turkey, France and England

Tsitsianov effortlessly achieved the accession of Mingrelia to Russia. In 1803, Prince George Dadiani signed the “pleading clauses”. In 1804, these points were signed by the King of Imereti Solomon II and the ruler of Guria, Prince Vakhtang Gurieli. At the same time, the process of accession of small state formations of Northern Azerbaijan to Russia was going on. Some of them, who were in vassal dependence on Persia, came under the protection of the Russian Empire voluntarily.

In Eastern Transcaucasia, Russia faced resistance to Persia, which, like Turkey, did not want to recognize the inclusion of Georgian, Azerbaijani, Armenian, North Caucasian lands in the Russian state. The reason for the resistance of Persia was simple. The Caucasus, both for Persia and for the Ottoman Empire, was a “hunting ground,” where for centuries predatory raids and campaigns were carried out, tens of thousands of people were sent to convert and sell into slavery. It was a lot of money, a very profitable business. In addition, the robbery was carried out under the slogan of fighting the "infidels", Christians, it seemed that they were doing a godly deed.

Neither Persia nor Turkey did not want to recognize the acts of joining the Caucasian regions and nationalities to Russia, demanding the withdrawal of Russian troops for the Terek. In these demands, they found the full support of France and England, which had their own interests in the Middle East. Each step of Russia to the south caused great concern in London.

Tsitsianov persistently, step by step, took the land from Azerbaijan under the influence of Persia. And beyond the Araks River was South Azerbaijan, already the Persian possessions proper. From the beginning of 1803, Russian troops, with the support of local volunteer forces - the Caucasian militia, began to subordinate the Khanate to St. Petersburg, located north of the Araks River. This undermined the Persian presence in the Caucasus, and ensured the security of Georgia, which had previously suffered from the raids of Muslim neighbors.

Conqueror of the Caucasus Prince Pavel Dmitrievich Tsitsianov. Assault ganja


Conquest of Ganja

Only Ganja khanate, feudal possession, which previously belonged to the Georgian kings, had a serious resistance. It had a favorable location - on the right bank of the Kura to the mouth of the Alazani River. In the east and southeast it bordered on the Karabag (Shusha) Khanate, in the south - on the Erivan. In the north, the Kura River separated the possessions of Ganja from Kakheti. Such a strategically important position made this Khanate a key to Northern Azerbaijan and Northern Armenia (the Erivan Khanate).

The ruler of the Khanate was clever Javad Khan. He tried to maneuver between the great powers, making a profit from it. Back in 1796, during the Persian campaign under the command of Valerian Zubov, he voluntarily swore allegiance to Empress Catherine the Great, and took an oath of loyalty. When the Russian troops left, he immediately abandoned this oath and began to assist the Persian detachments during the attacks on Georgian lands, not forgetting his share in military spoils. Moreover, Javad Khan supported any anti-Russian intrigues of local rulers, whose power of Tsitsianov cut, putting them in the framework of imperial legitimacy.

Initially, Tsitsianov tried to resolve the matter with the world and demanded that Javad Khan cease intrigue. However, there was no positive response. Khan, aware of the small number of Russian forces in Georgia, showed excessive self-confidence, which left him sideways. Tsitsianov did not tolerate such insolence and personally led a military expedition, which was to conquer Ganja by force. The 17 th Jäger Regiment, a battalion of Caucasian grenadiers, two battalions of the Sevastopol Musketeer Regiment, three squadrons of the Narva Dragoon Regiment with 11 guns entered the detachment. 22 November 1803, the squad made a speech, along the way it was replenished with local volunteers.

On November 28, Tsitsianov arrived in Shamkhor and sent a letter to Javad Khan, where he recalled that he had accepted Russian citizenship and had sworn an oath. Then came the ultimatum demanding to surrender the city, otherwise promised "fire and sword." The letter also reported that Ganja and the district belonged earlier to Georgia and Russia, having accepted Georgia under its authority, cannot leave Ganja in the hands of others. Javad Khan, delaying the time, gave an uncertain answer in the best traditions of Eastern diplomacy.

The Russian avant-garde - two battalion rangers, a battalion of Caucasian grenadiers, a squadron of dragoons at 7 guns, under the command of Tsitsianov himself and his closest assistant, Major General S. Portnyagin, advanced to Ganja and struck the first blow. In front of the fortress walls a hot fight took place. During the nearly two-hour battle, the enemy’s resistance was broken and the khan warriors retreated behind the fortress walls. The enemy lost only 250 people killed and several hundred people went over to the Russians (many of them were Armenians). The Russian squad lost about 100 killed and wounded.

Capturing the outskirts, Tsitsianov began a siege. The usual engineering works were carried out: trenches were rummaged, ambushes were prepared in case of enemy attacks, positions for guns were built. The fortress, located on the left bank of the Ganja River (a tributary of the Kura), had the shape of a hexagon up to 3,5 versts perimeter and was considered one of the strongest in the Caucasus. The walls were double: height - fathoms 6-8, thickness - 4. Outside there was a clay wall, inside - a stone wall. The walls had loopholes for shooters. The fortress was strengthened by 6 towers. Inside the fortress was located internal fortification - the citadel.

Seeing the full power of the enemy fortifications, Tsitsianov postponed the assault on Ganja and resumed negotiations several times, offering the Khan to surrender. 2 January 1804 was decided at the military council to make a general assault. On the attack had to go the next night, in the morning, when the watchfulness of the guard will be dulled. Russian troops were divided into two assault columns, they included several hundred local residents who wanted to take revenge on Javad Khan for his past atrocities. Light Muslim cavalry cordoned off the fortress from all sides to prevent the escape of Khan's subjects. They were supported by pickets from the Caucasian militia. Tsitsianov did not want to miss the Khan, who could bring a lot of trouble to freedom. All warriors received a strict order not to touch women and children, not to commit robberies.

3 January 1804, the famous storming of the Ganja fortress began in the 5 30 mine clock. The first assault convoy under Portnyagin as part of the 857 soldiers, there were hurried dragoons, Caucasian and Sevastopol grenadiers, marching into the attack from the Karabakh gate. The second column was commanded by Colonel Karyagin (Koryakin), the commander of the Narva Dragoons. In her 585 man, two battalion rangers. The second column was to conduct a demonstrative attack from the Tiflis Gate. The reserve of each column consisted of one battalion of infantry. The main reserve under Tsitsianov consisted of a rifle battalion of Major Belavin, two hundred Cossacks and all artillery.

The assailants managed to get to the walls themselves unnoticed. An alarm sounded in the fortress, guns hit, gunfire began, arrows shot out (bows were in service with Khan's units), an avalanche of stones fell. At the very beginning of the assault, Karyagin’s column successfully crossed the external wall along the ladder. But in a narrow corridor between the two walls, Russian soldiers had to be tight. Stones soaked in oil and various rags fell on them. The juggers were not frightened and began to storm the second wall. The first to climb the stone wall was a brave Major Lisanevich. The huntsmen behind him, with a bayonet, cleared the wall and captured the outermost towers. In one of them, Khadzhi-Kale, the huntsmen came across Javad Khan with bodyguards. In a fierce battle Khan and his warriors were killed.

Portnyagin’s column has punched a big breach with picks and crowbars in the mud wall. But it was not possible to immediately break through to the second wall. Only during the third attack, Russian soldiers broke into the wall and began to fight for the towers.

Meanwhile, keeper Karyagin, whose “false” attack was so effective, descended from the walls inside the fortress and opened the Tiflis Gate, clearing them from the dam. The Khan's warriors, who had lost their commander, were terrified when they saw the Russian riflemen descend from the wall and open the gates. Thousands of women and children rushed in the fortress, Russian commanders gave the order to take them to the already captured towers.

In the very fortress of such fierce resistance, as on the walls, there was not. Only at the Khan's mosque, several hundred Muslim warriors took the last battle and, in a fierce hand-to-hand battle, they all fell to one. The rest preferred to surrender. They did this in part because they saw the attitude of the Russians towards their families. There was no sense in fighting to the last, the khan was killed, disgrace and slavery were not threatened to women and children. During the assault, the middle son of the khan also died, but the eldest and the youngest were able to escape. By noon, the fortress was completely captured, a Russian banner was raised above the citadel.

Results and meaning of the capture of Ganja

- The Khan army lost only killed 1750 people, about 18 thousands of soldiers laid down weapon and surrendered to captivity. 12 cannons, 9 banners, large stocks of weapons, ammunition and food were captured in the fortress. Russian squad lost 244 man killed and wounded.

- For Russia, opened a direct road to the shores of the Araks, behind which lay South Azerbaijan.

- The Tsar's Tsar Tsar's governor, by his will, renamed Ganja into Elizavetpol, in honor of Empress Elizabeth. The Khanate itself was liquidated and, as the Elizavetpolsky district, was annexed to Russia. This decision did not meet the resistance of the local population, which was freed from the cruel ruler.

- In the capital, they highly appreciated the victory gained by Tsitsianov. He received the rank of full general, becoming a general of infantry. Major-General Portnyagin was awarded the Order of St. George 3-th degree, Major Lisanevich, Colonel Karyagin and Lieutenant Colonel Simanovich were awarded the Orders of St. George 4-th degree. Pavel Karyagin, whose column first broke into the enemy fortress, received another honorary award, he was appointed chief of the 17 th Chasseur Regiment. For the lower ranks, the participants of the victorious assault, will soon make a commemorative silver medal with a diameter of 33 mm. On its face was the monogram of Emperor Alexander Pavlovich. On the back side was the inscription: “For work and courage in taking Ganzha of the Genvore 3. 1804. The medal was worn on the ribbon of the Order of St. Alexander Nevsky.



Medal "For labor and courage in taking Ganja."
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Articles from this series:
Conqueror of the Transcaucasus - Prince Pavel Dmitrievich Tsitsianov
Conqueror of Transcaucasia - Prince Pavel Dmitrievich Tsitsianov. Assault ganja
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  1. xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 09: 30 New
    +9
    Eternal memory to those who died defending their homeland !!!
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 17 2013 09: 48 New
      +6
      Quote: xetai9977
      Eternal memory to those who died defending their homeland !!!

      Judging by your flag, you are about Javad Khan? wink
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 09: 54 New
        +3
        First of all, about Javad Khan. But what, he is not worthy?
      2. 416sd
        416sd April 17 2013 10: 21 New
        +4
        Well, who else should he write? Did he offend Tsitsianov? No. This is not a zero sum game - and if one is good does not mean that the other is not. He simply praised Javad Khan for his worthy resistance. And so it was clear that the Russians would come here. But of all the khanates, someone had to sacrifice themselves and resist. The same incident as the Turks and Persians did. This was done by Javad Khan.

        Scotland today is part of Britain for centuries, but for centuries there are monuments to William Wallace on the territory of Scotland. This is a story, and reading it is not necessary to bite your nails.
        1. 755962
          755962 April 17 2013 15: 36 New
          +4
          Had a chance to serve in Ganja. It was 1989. And then the city was called Kirovabad. When will the World finally be there?
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 April 17 2013 16: 01 New
            0
            Dear, this does not depend on us. When the HOST DOGS do not withdraw their dogs.
          2. xetai9977
            xetai9977 April 17 2013 16: 03 New
            +4
            Dear, this does not depend on us. When the DOGS DON’T withdraw their Dogs from us
  2. 416sd
    416sd April 17 2013 09: 34 New
    10
    Thank you for the generally objective material!
    Nowadays, they rarely write about how valiantly the enemy resisted.
    But the khan wasn’t cruel :)
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4-%D1%85%D0%B0%D


    0% BD

    The surviving descendants then served in the Russian Imperial Army (Princes Ziyathanov).

    It was generally difficult for the Azerbaijani khanates in the early 19th century. Persians hated, fiercely and. But formally they were in vassal dependence on the Persian shahs, although this dependence was not recognized. They did not hate the Ottomans, but they were afraid - the Sunni factor affected (for the most part, khans were Shiites like their population) and remembered the Shiite massacre that the Turks organized in the mid 1570s. when Azerbaijan was chopped off for a while. They didn’t know the Russians, they were mostly cautious, and the fact that the Muslim khan was under the Christian monarch, as it were, was not high. Well, the loss of sovereignty of course = though feudally fragmented, it was the Azerbaijani khanates, the embryo of the future Azerbaijani nation.

    The paradox is that if these khanates were not transferred to the Russians, the Muslim Turks of these lands would assimilate among the Persians or Ottomans. The Russians brought European culture, enlightenment, the education system, the first Russian-speaking Azerbaijani enlighteners appeared by the middle of the 19th century, nationalism, national thought, theater, opera began to emerge ... The process of forming Azerbaijanis as a single nation began, which ended by the 1920s.

    Would we write the first opera in the Muslim world if these lands were not transferred to the Russians in the early 19th century? I think the answer is clear that no.

    Time has put everything in its place: this is the case when they say "everything that does not happen, happens for the better."
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 12: 46 New
      -2
      Quote: 416sd
      Thank you for the generally objective material!

      And what is objective in it ??
      the author is not even familiar with historical materials of such a time !!
      Ganja was a feudal formation previously owned by Georgia ??
      Once, in the entire history of Ganja, the Georgians did not manage to capture for a long time and this already speaks of belonging to Georgia !?
      Why is Tsitsianov smart and Javad Khan dodgy?
      Javad Khan was a brave, courageous and bearded man!
      On the contrary, Tsitsianov thought that he was cunning to Baku!
      I often read Samsonov’s second such chauvinist, a Nazi who hates Turks and Azerbaijanis you will not find!
      ** The huntsmen were not afraid and began to storm the second wall. The first to climb the stone wall was the brave Major Lisanevich. *** - Lisanevich was a vile killer who subsequently killed the Karabakh Khan — Ibrahim Khan and his family, including his young children !! He was killed after an insult to an Azerbaijani man!
      Tsitsianov was also an upstart and an arrogant cock, for which the Baku khan Abbas cooli killed him at the gates of Baku !!
      In its aggressive policy, the Russian Empire relied on robbers, unprincipled people, people to whom the word Honor was alien !!
      1. alex shnajder
        alex shnajder April 17 2013 13: 34 New
        -1
        and why love the Turks and Azerbaijanis?
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 April 17 2013 13: 47 New
          +2
          It’s very incorrect of you !!! Judging by the flag, you are a Ukrainian. And we have always treated Ukrainians warmly. But it doesn’t matter. I won’t ask, “Why love you!?” (No matter who you are by nationality). It would fall to a primitive level.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 15 New
          +2
          Quote: alex shnajder
          and why love the Turks and Azerbaijanis?


          Mlyn, when I read people like you wonder, why do they love Russians !!?



      2. Rider
        Rider April 17 2013 13: 45 New
        +5
        Quote: Yarbay
        Lisanevich was a vile killer who subsequently killed the Karabakh khan


        ah ah ah, then Lisanchevich is a killer. (Well, this is understandable. Who else could be the first brave man to climb the wall under enemy fire)
        but Javad Khan, who is he?
        for sure, a brave warrior, an excellent politician and a wonderful manager.
        who lost the battle to the smaller army, darted from one side to the other (both ours and yours) and in the end, who were thrown by their own subjects (those same defectors)

        do not you think that you yourself having convicted the author of partiality, you yourself sin this?
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 April 17 2013 13: 59 New
          +2
          Javad Khan defended his homeland and his family as best he could !!! and that says it all !!! And Lisanevich was an invader. You don’t go ahead with guns. And about hints of a “lesser army”, you would probably write praises to Guderian and Manstein who won more than once with less power than the enemy. In your opinion, obsolete weapons do not matter.
          1. Rider
            Rider April 17 2013 14: 20 New
            0
            Quote: xetai9977
            Javad Khan defended his homeland


            yes to health.
            (you’ll probably write down the accords signed earlier to him in praise - how did he defend his homeland)

            And as for the allusions to the "lesser army",


            So what ?
            I announced the fact.
            and you exaggerate the "modernization" of Russian weapons of those times too much.
            only artillery could seriously influence the course of battles of those times.
            11 guns, the argument is certainly serious, but far from decisive.
            1. xetai9977
              xetai9977 April 17 2013 14: 31 New
              0
              where is the equipment, and where is the bow and arrow!
            2. xetai9977
              xetai9977 April 17 2013 14: 33 New
              0
              where are the guns, and where is the melee weapon, including arrows!
            3. xetai9977
              xetai9977 April 17 2013 14: 41 New
              +2
              where-guns, and where-edged weapons, including arrows. But for anyone who resists AGGRESSION, he is worthy of respect regardless of nationality. Or, for our colleagues, the concept of AGGRESSOR depends on nationality?
              1. Rider
                Rider April 17 2013 15: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: xetai9977
                where-guns, and where-edged weapons, including arrows


                and you don’t understand what, the tools helped to make only a gap in the wall?

                further only melee.
                and the guns and pistols of those times, this is one shot, and use it like a club.
                the number of losses and those and those glance.
                it says as be.

                Well, what about AGRRREESSSSSORR.
                here is the light of my wiki mirror that Javad Khan was a loyal adherent of PERSION in the Caucasus.
                I’m just interested in Persia do you consider an aggressor or where?

                Well
                Certainly, part of the Caucasus was joined by military means, but you are mistaken that only Georgia voluntarily requested
                on entry into the Republic of Ingushetia.
                at different times, different peoples and khanates wrote petitions to Moscow about citizenship and protection.
                mind you, I don’t say “ALL”, I don’t even say “MOST”, but the fact is.

                however, if you like Turkish or Iranian rule in the Caucasus, then the master is a master
                (I note only that it was from their "good deeds" that the Caucasian peoples sought under the wing of RI)


                well, and as a small digression, recently the Iranian parliament (formerly Persia) decided to return the lands seized from it by Russia.
                that is, Part of Azerbaijan and Armenia.

                so you have a real chance to restore historical justice.
                wink
                1. xetai9977
                  xetai9977 April 17 2013 15: 47 New
                  +1
                  Iran can say anything. Only there are no countries that have signed the notorious Turkmenchay Treaty, that is, the Russian Empire and the Shahenshah Persia. So, their hands are short. On the other hand, I returned from Iran 2 weeks ago. I visited Tehran, Tabriz, Urmia. "Theocracy controls everything from economics to sports. Inflation is astronomical. So if you think that when you strike Iran everyone will defend the regime, you are deeply mistaken.
                  1. Rider
                    Rider April 17 2013 16: 09 New
                    +1
                    Quote: xetai9977
                    Iran can say anything.


                    Yes, it makes no difference to me.
                    Your land, you live on it, and you protect it.

                    simple (small remark)
                    I understand (from the history of the Caucasus) that Azerbaijan, within its current borders, created the Republic of Ingushetia (later the USSR) I don’t presume to judge whether it is good or bad. However, until that moment, foreign powers did not present territorial claims to you.

                    like be the precedent.
                    1. xetai9977
                      xetai9977 April 17 2013 16: 23 New
                      +1
                      Indeed, AZERBAIJAN IN CURRENT BORDERS CREATED RI. (WE LOST 70% OF OUR TERRITORY)
                      1. Rider
                        Rider April 17 2013 16: 49 New
                        +1
                        but forgive me, show the borders of real Azerbaijan, and when it was.
                        and then here’s a map in the article, so there are only patchwork principalities.

                        besides, there is such a geographical concept as Iranian Azerbaijan.
                        Well, restore historical justice.
                      2. Yarbay
                        Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Rider
                        besides, there is such a geographical concept as Iranian Azerbaijan.
                        Well, restore historical justice.

                        So let it not bother you !!!
                        Go about your business!
                      3. Rider
                        Rider April 17 2013 17: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Yarbay
                        So let it not bother you !!!


                        Yes it’s not me, it worries 9977, it doesn’t give him 70% rest.
                      4. Yarbay
                        Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Rider
                        Yes it’s not me, it worries 9977, it doesn’t give him 70% rest.

                        He can)))
                        he has an idea of ​​what he is talking about)))))
                        And you read carefully!
                      5. Rider
                        Rider April 17 2013 17: 40 New
                        0
                        strange post is gone

                        anyway,
                        united Azerbaijan was created under the USSR.
                        before that, small khanates or provinces as a part of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        don't you like borders
                        Well, restore historical justice.
                2. xetai9977
                  xetai9977 April 17 2013 18: 19 New
                  +2
                  The map is shown in the article.
                3. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 18: 48 New
                  +1
                  in the article, I saw a LOT OF SMALL Khanates.
                  start from where the Great Mighty ONE Azerbaijan is indicated.
                  and then present the claim that you have taken away the territory.
                4. xetai9977
                  xetai9977 April 17 2013 18: 58 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Rider
                  In the article, I saw a LOT OF SMALL Khanates.

                  And for the time being, Russia consisted of even smaller principalities. ALL states went through this. And at the expense of the GREAT, erase the "borders" between the khanates. All the same, this would have happened naturally, if there had not been external interference
                5. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 19: 41 New
                  +1
                  Quote: xetai9977
                  And for the time being, Russia consisted of even smaller principalities.


                  of course, only Russia, no one joined the Russians, and did not draw borders.
                  they sorted it out somehow.

                  .And at the expense of the GREAT-erase the "border" between the khanates. All the same, this would have happened in a natural way, if there had been no external interference


                  that's interesting, but how would Iran and Turkey look at it?
                  Well, I'm just sure that they would help a young developing state.
                  Well, purely from altruism.
                  what do you say defended in Ganja?
                  bows and arrows?
                  you can’t say anything, an equal partner of regional monsters.

                  no offense.
                6. xetai9977
                  xetai9977 April 17 2013 20: 58 New
                  +1
                  History does not recognize the phrase “it would be”, “if”. For anyone, seizing foreign lands is not good
                7. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 21: 23 New
                  0
                  In any case, to seize foreign lands is not good


                  on the subjunctive mood, I completely agree with you.

                  that is why when many now independent nations say, "they say, without Russians, we WOULD NOT have life but raspberries," they need to remember this very saying.

                  Azerbaijan didn’t become steep and independent alone (at that time), it means “WOULD NOT” be a channel.

                  became now a powerful power - in a good way.
                  then the maturity test is passed with dignity.

                  In any case, to seize foreign lands is not good


                  You see, the current state of the borders of ALL WITHOUT EXCLUSION OF STATES.
                  means that at one time, they chopped off something from the neighbors.
                  alas, in politics there is no such measure as “good or bad”
                  THERE IS A STRENGTH RIGHT, for coherence, veiled by all kinds of treaties and protocols.

                  simple example
                  The horde has been sitting on the neck of Russia for 300 years, and no one says that it is illegal or does not comply with any norms of international law.
                  Russia could not defend independence - voilà, WITHOUT conquered.
                  however, times have changed and the Horde has received alaverdi to the maximum.

                  what matters is how the winners related to the defeated (affiliated, liberated)
                  as in the west by the method of genocide and reservations
                  or like ours, when all peoples had rights and opportunities on a par with the titular nation.
                  (and in some cases, even large)
      3. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 18: 23 New
        0
        The map is indicated in the article
  3. Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 38 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    However, until that moment, foreign powers did not present territorial claims to you.

    So the fact of the matter is, no one has yet presented us with the pritenzy and recognized our entire country within our borders!
    Everything else is an attempt to expand, we’re welcome))) I’ll wait and see))
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    , recently the Iranian parliament (formerly Persia) decided to return the lands seized from it by Russia.

    Not decided yet)))))
    And if he decides, he will most likely lose part of his territory !!))
    1. Rider
      Rider April 17 2013 16: 56 New
      -2
      Well, here already (your words):I’ll see, see))
  • kNow
    kNow April 17 2013 14: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: Rider
    who lost the battle to the smaller army, darted from one side to the other (both ours and yours)

    and even fought with bows and arrows ...
    1. Rider
      Rider April 17 2013 18: 53 New
      +1
      and the Russians - tanks and drones.
  • 416sd
    416sd April 17 2013 14: 48 New
    +2
    Lisanevich, the killer, not because he climbed on the wall, but because he exterminated half of the Khan’s family, including small children and women.

    Regarding the fact that the khan lost the battle to a smaller army - it’s not only the artillery - what do you want to say that the Russian Imperial Army is a small unit, but organized, professional, the one that Napoleon kicked the ass in a few years and the Caucasian khan squad - the same thing? Touched.

    As for rushing about - I would look at you between a Turk, a Persian and a Russian. We would notice abruptly Javad Khan.

    The khan had his own truth, he defended his land. Just as he defended before the Turk and the Persian. If the enemy did not treat him with respect, they would not have buried Javad Khan with honors in his native fortress. Apparently the Russian military of those times better than you understood how Javad Khan fought once respect him.
    1. Rider
      Rider April 17 2013 16: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: 416sd
      Lisanevich, the killer didn’t because he climbed the wall


      Is Javad Khan white and fluffy?
      or if AGRRREESESORRRR kills, then he is an unconditional killer, and if he is not a defender, then?


      I was shocked that the man who first climbed the wall, whom the author of the article called a warrior of war, was immediately branded, but I am pretty sure that the khan issued a lot of "controversial" decrees during his rule.
      but in one case - the unconditional killer, in the other ...
      oh yes, he defended his homeland.
      and from the Persians too?

      About the fact that the khan lost the battle to a smaller army - not only in the artillery


      so I wrote a quote:11 guns, the argument is certainly serious, but far from decisive.
      but defeat is defeat.

      The khan had his own truth


      certainly, but don’t you find that Tsitsianov has his own?
      the author of the article has his own.
      Well, we have the identity with you (probably)

      and thereafter continued about respect.
      I don’t understand, if I wrote the FACTS, is this disrespect?

      and by the way, they buried with honors, but they could plant their heads at the peak, and sell the women and children to the Turks (or Persians).

      how to bask - feel the difference.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 16: 18 New
        +1
        Oh my God! What truth can the aggressor have! Say better, this way and that, they say, Tsitsianov and K. They Can’t Be Aggressors, Although They Alien Hapali, BECAUSE THEY SERVED THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE, AND THEY SERVED THE GERMAN, THE FRENCH AND THE SWEDEN, WON'T WASH THEM FROM THE CURSE OF RUSSIAN AND ANATHIATIS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATHIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATIAS ANYATHIAS It will be fair.
        1. Rider
          Rider April 17 2013 16: 25 New
          +2
          listen, dear, I’m almost sure that if you analyze the history of the Khanate under discussion, there will probably be many wars that are clearly not “defensively defensive”
          because there were raids and seizures of neighboring lands.
          but for some reason you have only one AGGRESSOR.

          logic like: if he’s a bastard, then he’s a bastard, but if I’m a bastard, then I’m not a bastard, but it just happened.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 33 New
            -1
            Quote: Rider
            but for some reason you have only one AGGRESSOR.

            The question is not the aggressor, but an unethical article full of errors and untruths!
            1. Rider
              Rider April 17 2013 16: 53 New
              0
              the question is which side of the fence it (question) is being considered.
            2. Earthman
              Earthman April 17 2013 19: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Yarbay
              The question is not the aggressor, but an unethical article full of errors and untruths!

              Well, what did you want Alibek-aha, the author is what OBVIDnyy --- Alexander Samsonov person in person
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Rider
        Is Javad Khan white and fluffy?
        or if AGRRREESESORRRR kills, then he is an unconditional killer, and if he is not a defender, then?

        That is, if the aggressor attacked the Russian cities, then the AGGRESSOR is an unconditional killer and all Russians are white and fluffy, and Javad Khan cannot be white and fluffy and the Hero attacked the aggressor?
        1. Rider
          Rider April 17 2013 16: 52 New
          0
          Well, here we will argue ad infinitum.
          since you have the same position.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 00 New
            0
            Quote: Rider
            Well, here we will argue ad infinitum.
            since you have the same position.

            So you, not knowing the history of this region and historical events, are trying to argue with me !! But you, unlike me, do not know anything about this !!
            Let's be objective!
            1. Rider
              Rider April 17 2013 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote:
              Let's be objective! [/ Quote


              The objectivity is that almost the entire known history of the Caucasus fought.
              went to the neighbors in raids, robbed killed slaughtered whole villages and even peoples.
              and this is not counting the foreign factor in the person of Turkey and Persia.

              but AGRRREEEESSSORRRR.
              current one.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    ah ah ah, then Lisanchevich is a killer

    You just don’t know the story and inattentively read !!

    “[B] According to the reports I received from the commander of the troops in Georgia, Gen.-m. Nesvetaeva opens that the 17th Jaegers regiment is a regiment. Lisanevich and Major Dzhoraev, who was with him, [b] for no good reason, [/ b [b]] with a detachment of rangers launched an attack on Ibrahim Khan Shushinsky [/ b], who, having no troops with him, except for the minions of 35 people. male and female and 1 wife with 3 young children, was on this side cr. Shushi near the gardens, on the mountain without any fortification, and he himself went out of the tent to meet the detachment, without firing a single shot; but the jaegers started firing, and stabbing with bayonets, where Ibrahim Khan was killed and all the estate that was with him went to the prey of the perpetrators of the attack ”[Acts of the Caucasian Archaeographic Commission. T. III, Art. 605]. [/ B]

    Major General Mehtigulu Khan (son of the late Khan) and Colonel Jafarkuli Agha, who were then in the fortress, did not take any action contrary to the rules of devotion to a high state. Not only did they not contradict the major, but on the contrary, they even tried to prepare food for the Russian troops, which then felt a great shortage ”[Mirza Jamal Javanshir. “History of Karabakh”, Baku, 1959, pp. 96-97]. Foreign researchers on this issue even cite the names of those schemers with whom Lisanevich acted hand in hand. In his article “The Strange Death of the Karabakh Khan Ibrahim Khalil” (Atkin M. “The strange death of Ibrahim Khalil Khan of Qarabagh”, “Iranian studies”, New-York, 1979, vol. XII, p. 39-107) M. Etkin mentions the name of a certain Armenian melik Jamshid, a longtime enemy of the khan, who as a result turned out to be one of the accomplices of this crime:
    “The decision to attack the camp belonged to D. Lisanevich, but the people who delivered him the information that led him to such a decision were personally interested in the overthrow of the khan. Among those accusing Ibrahim Khalil of treason was the Armenian malik Jamshid, a longtime enemy of the khan. For many years he had the idea that the Russians would overthrow the khan and make Karabakh a protectorate led by the Armenian governor. Perhaps Melik also hoped to take this post. In 1797, he emigrated to Georgia, where he received a pension of 1400 rubles a year appointed by Tsar Paul, later returned to Karabakh ”[“ Azerbaijan Abroad, ”Abstract Digest, Issue 12, Baku, 1986, pp. 19-20]. According to M. Etkin, [b] according to eyewitnesses, Lisanevich after this massacre did not feel much regret and behaved rather brazenly: “It is clear that in the question of the destruction of unarmed women and children, he was only concerned about the fact that they turned out to be famous people from -for which the noise was made, he did not mind shooting at people, and not attacking, but running away ”[/ b]
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    who lost the battle to the smaller army, darted from one side to the other (both ours and yours) and in the end, who were thrown by their own subjects (those same defectors)

    First, he did not rush, but fought!
    Secondly, as usual, the Armenians (deserters) betrayed him
    In the third, his fighters all died (I’m talking about the regular army), militias, ordinary villagers stopped resisting!
    Fourth, the weapons of the opponents were completely different !!
    This is counting missiles against rifles !!
    1. Rider
      Rider April 17 2013 16: 39 New
      +1
      what pathos, how many exclamation points.

      I read on the wiki that Javad Khan was a faithful guide to Persia in the Caucasus.
      Of course it is clear that he considered Russia an enemy.
      but concluded a contract, then betrayed, then
      helped the enemies of Russia.
      Yes, probably it can be called by its struggle.

      Secondly, as usual, the Armenians (deserters) betrayed him


      See it well, he ruled.
      the same thing about the militia, probably they loved little homeland.

      Well, about the weapon.
      as I said, the rifles of the time, after the first shot, were a club with a bayonet.
      guns in street battles did not take part.

      and by the way, are you absolutely sure that the defenders did not have firearms?
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Rider
        what pathos, how many exclamation points.

        not pathos, I write here for a long time and always with a huge number of exclamation points, but this does not mean anything but habit!
        Quote: Rider
        I read on the wiki that Javad Khan

        Then you can not write anything))))
        read less wiki and more serious historical, documentary literature!
        1. Rider
          Rider April 17 2013 17: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: Yarbay
          Then you can not write anything))))
          read less wiki and more serious historical, documentary literature!


          Yes, I’m not particularly interested in the history of the Caucasus.
          I just typed in search of Javad Khan.
          and voila.
          Do you think that the khan was not pro-Persian?
          by the way, of course, he was a patriot, well, with the Persians he got naughty, then he glorified, and got naughty with the Russians, then again he phrased.
          and then just did not dodge.

          and I asked you for a source of long quotes about the capture of Ganja. but you (alas) do not answer.
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 21 New
            0
            Quote: Rider
            I just typed in search of Javad Khan.

            The fact is that in the year before last, groups of Azerbaijanis who entered historical data on the wiki were blocked!
            Mostly write Armenians and all sorts of crap!
            Quote: Rider
            Do you think that the khan was not pro-Persian?

            Of course it was not)))
            I don’t have time right now, but read what happened on December 13, 1786!
            What was the situation of the Ganja Khanate, what tasks had to be solved !!
            1. Rider
              Rider April 17 2013 17: 28 New
              +1
              I do not want to offend at all, but for sure other khanates and peoples will have their own dates.
              I say that the HISTORY is written by SOVEREIGNERS. peoples is a series of mutual insults and claims.
              I am sure that you are now on the website of Armenians.
              also could throw a bunch of dates and links.

              and forgive me, I do not believe that the khan could conduct an INDEPENDENT (in the full sense of the word) policy.
              too many strong players were spinning around.

              so sho - maneuvered, and could not resist cornering.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 32 New
                0
                Quote: Rider
                I am sure that you are now on the website of Armenians.
                also could throw a bunch of dates and links.

                Can not)))))
                Checked more than once !!
                And what about Armenia in general?
                Quote: Rider
                HISTORY written by Sovereigns.

                The history written in the USSR was no different, there were more blank spots !!
                Quote: Rider
                and forgive me, I do not believe that the khan could conduct an INDEPENDENT (in the full sense of the word) policy.
                too many strong players were spinning around.

                Yes, therefore, I say, read, there are many books!
                1. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 17: 50 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  Can not)))))
                  Checked more than once !!


                  well they would say the same thing.

                  The history written in the USSR was no different, there were more blank spots !!


                  Well, write your own, and put all the blame on the neighbor, the same is not the best option.

                  that the khan could conduct an INDEPENDENT (in the full sense of the word) policy.

                  Yes, therefore, I say, read, there are many books!


                  then what are these cries about AGGRESSOR for?
                  such aggressors there was a cart and a small cart.
                  here is the neighboring khanate, it attacked you, it is an unconditional AGGRESSOR, and then you attack another, how are you?
                2. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 17 2013 18: 22 New
                  0
                  Quote: Rider
                  then what are these cries about AGGRESSOR for?
                  such aggressors there was a cart and a small cart.
                  here is the neighboring khanate, it attacked you, it is an unconditional AGGRESSOR, and then you attack another, how are you?

                  Dear, I write about the article and the specific case, while you write that if it were, it would be ...
                  I’m alone for you, but how much do you like oats in the market?
                  I hope not offended!
                3. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 18: 52 New
                  -2
                  Yes, no.
                  You’ve taken part in the conversation about aggression, and you’ve come under a hot hand.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 24 New
    -1
    Quote: Rider
    do not you think that you yourself having convicted the author of partiality, you yourself sin this?

    But as it really was !!


    P.D.Tsitsianov, appointed in September 1802 as the ruler of the Caucasus, undertook to inculcate Ganja. The tsarist government, having entrusted him with all civil and military power in Transcaucasia, hoped to "appease" the Caucasus with its help. Tsitsianov was distinguished by a contemptuous and cruel attitude towards the peoples living in this region. Georgian prince by birth, he was born in Moscow. Having appeared in the Caucasus, he began to pursue a policy of planting all Russian. First of all, he began to look for a reason to invade Ganja. The letter he received from Major General Lazarev dated January 9, 1803 strengthened him in this thought. Based on the testimonies of two Armenians, Lazarev wrote that "all the Ganja Armenians are looking forward to the arrival of Russian troops ..."
    Then Javad Khan hoped to maintain good neighborly relations with the Russians. He openly stated this to Tsitsianov. The general’s response read: “I know about your desire to maintain peaceful, friendly relations with your neighbors. The powerful emperor of All Russia takes you and your people under his care. The best guarantee of your highest trust would be your eldest son Ugurlu, whom you, given our request, would be sent to Tiflis ... "
    So that Javad Khan would pledge his son to some rogue ?! Of course I didn’t. He sent a letter in which he gave the same kind, ambiguous answer. Tsitsianov realized that Javad Khan could not be dealt with peacefully, and he began military preparations for an attack on Ganja. Gathering sufficient forces, he moved his troops to the city and stopped them in Shamkir. For several months, correspondence continued between the ruler of the Caucasus and the ruler of Ganja. The Russian general wrote angry letters demanding surrender.
    Here are two of them: December 26, 1803: "... Where is it heard that the Russian army, besieging the fortress, leave it not conquered. Those who surrender, forgive. Those who boast of themselves, I will drown in my own blood. The will of God, whose fortress will be ... "
    December 28, 1803: "... Because of my beliefs, I hate your Asian self-confidence ... God is the witness who of us is bleeding: you or me? The answer to this letter should be today!".
    Javad Khan gave an early reply: "What gives you the right to speak to me like that, because you have not subordinated me to yourself. And how do you understand your phrase that the answer should be given today? I don’t even speak with my servants, know the measure. A letter will be sent when I First of all. As for the surrender of the city, abandon these dreams. In Ganja you will pass only through my corpse. Only after my death. And nothing else! ".
    The siege ring around the city was getting narrower. For a month now, fighting has been ongoing, the roads to the city have been blocked by the enemy. According to the evidence that reached us, "the waters were red with blood. People who had to drink it were sick." And Javad Khan continued to fight, he was not going to give up.
    Enraged by such resistance, Tsitsianov convened a military council on December 29 and held a meeting. It was decided to send another letter. If the answer was not received before 12 noon, on the 30th, the Russians threatened to shower the city with a hail of cannonballs. Under the terms of surrender, the ruler of the besieged khanate was obliged to swear allegiance to the emperor of Russia, annually pay Russia a tax of 20 thousand, and pledge the correct fulfillment of the conditions to give the son of Javad Khan to the Georgian ruler for permanent residence.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 30 New
      0
      January 3, 1804, the first day of the Muslim festival of Ramadan, the storming of the fortress began.This was done on purpose, because Tsitsianov knew that this was a month of mandatory fasting among Muslims, a forbidden month for war, and that this would undermine the power of the defenders!
      The Russians attacked from several directions: through a breach in the earthen wall not far from the Karabakh Gate and from the Tiflis Gate. They managed to capture the main tower of the fortress and take control of two more others. On one of them, Hadji-kale, Major Lissanevich shot Javad Khan, who fought in the front ranks of the defenders, with a shotgun. Seeing a hopeless situation, Javad Khan climbed the biggest gun, he fought with extreme courage with a saber in his hands until he was killed. On the same day, the son of Khan Huseyngulu aga died on the battlefield.
      The defenders of Ganja fought desperately for every street, but the death of their leader, the endless stream of superior enemy forces, which made senseless resistance, forced them to surrender. 1500 people died in the battle for freedom of the Ganja Khanate, the rest 17224 (population of the city) were taken prisoner.
      This is to write briefly!
      1. Rider
        Rider April 17 2013 16: 43 New
        -1
        I certainly believe you.
        That's just the source of these quotes to see.
        otherwise you know. the recent history of independent states sometimes takes such a turn.

        especially pleased about Ramadan.
        I am almost sure that during this holy day for Muslims, all wars and hostilities in the Caucasus ceased.
        wink
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 05 New
          0
          Quote: Rider
          I am almost sure that during this holy day for Muslims, all wars and hostilities in the Caucasus ceased.

          You are not able to read !!!
          I’m talking about cunning and treachery of Tsitsianov !!
          Tsitsianov, not being a Muslim, chose this date for the assault !!
          And Muslims, if they were attacked even at that time, are obliged to defend themselves !!
          1. Rider
            Rider April 17 2013 17: 13 New
            0
            listen dear, cunning at war, is called "military art" well, also "military cunning"
            and further.
            emphasizing Tsitsianov’s “cunning rifle”, you want to say that you didn’t fight Ramadan in the Caucasus?
            sorry, but I DO NOT BELIEVE.
            something like a meme about the olympic games.
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 22 New
              +1
              Quote: Rider
              sorry, but I DO NOT BELIEVE.

              Because I do not know)))
              and Transcaucasia !!
              All Muslims do not fight in the month of Ramadan is a great sin !!
              Only if you were attacked, is obliged to fight !!
              1. Rider
                Rider April 17 2013 17: 37 New
                0
                Quote: Yarbay
                Because I do not know)))


                http://bulgar-portal.ru/%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%8B%20%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%8
                1%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%201

                I'm just sure that you can dig dozens more cases, including in the Caucasus.

                do not wishful thinking.
                1. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 17 2013 18: 01 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rider
                  do not wishful thinking.

                  Your link does not open with me !!
                  The question is what not to dig up !!
                  Do not brake!
                  I say that it is forbidden and whoever does this commits a sin !!
                  Perhaps non-Muslims fought with each other, alas, I can’t see the link!
                  Just type Ramadan month on Google and get enlightened !!
                2. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 18: 18 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarbay
                  The question is what not to dig up !!
                  Do not brake!


                  Well, no, dear comrade.

                  you claimed that the attack on Ganja in Ramadan, it’s such a cunning zapadlo that no Muslim would dare.
                  and in the link a list of wars waged just this month.
                  want to know more 7
                  drive into the search - wars waged by Muslims in the month of ramadan.

                  and it will be like the Jews
                  (like a joke)
                  the question is - why did the Jews win the war in 6 days?
                  the answer is patam that the Jews do not fight on Saturday.
                3. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 17 2013 18: 27 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Rider
                  you claimed that the attack on Ganja in Ramadan, it’s such a cunning zapadlo that no Muslim would dare.

                  You see, you don’t know how to read or specially troll!
                  I wrote that Muslims are forbidden to fight in the month of Ramadan is a sin and that Tsitsianov took advantage of this by cunning!

                  I did not write that Muslims never fought this month!
                  If I fought, I indicated the reasons !!
                  And for other reasons, this is a sin !!
                4. Rider
                  Rider April 17 2013 18: 45 New
                  -1
                  adnaaako!

                  I wrote that Muslims are forbidden to fight in the month of Ramadan is a sin and that Tsitsianov took advantage of this by cunning!


                  but such wars are waged and waged and IT IS FACT.

                  I did not write that Muslims never fought this month!
                  If I fought, I indicated the reasons !!
                  And for other reasons, this is a sin !!


                  but the cunning current of the Cyzians.
                  just horror how interesting.
  • Yarbay
    Yarbay April 17 2013 18: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: Rider
    I certainly believe you.
    That's just the source of these quotes to see.

    Thanks, of course, but does the author have sources of what he wrote ??
  • 416sd
    416sd April 17 2013 14: 40 New
    +2
    Yarbai is generally objective.

    This is better than what I read on the topic most often.

    Regarding Georgia, I was just too lazy to explain - here competent people will pick up the Ganja Khanate and understand that it had nothing to do with the Georgians and the vassal of them.

    As for Lisanevich, in the previous part of the article we talked about this topic. I threw off an episode from our film where in an art form describes what Lisanevich did and how he was executed by his own.

    In the end, the Russian man wrote, to the best of his knowledge and concept of objectivity. There are materials weaker and worse. Better on Russian sources on the topic I do not remember.

    It's like about Sinop - you read Russian, yes, defeat, heroism, the destruction of the fleet. You read the Turks - a robbery without declaring war, moreover, on a peaceful fleet standing in a parking lot in the bay.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 44 New
      -3
      Quote: 416sd
      In the end, the Russian man wrote, to the best of his knowledge and concept of objectivity

      I have been reading this * Russian * man for a long time !!
      This is the same forger as Pikul was !!
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz April 17 2013 14: 45 New
    -1
    Quote: Yarbay
    Quote: 416sd
    Thank you for the generally objective material!

    And what is objective in it ??
    the author is not even familiar with historical materials of such a time !!
    Ganja was a feudal formation previously owned by Georgia ??
    Once, in the entire history of Ganja, the Georgians did not manage to capture for a long time and this already speaks of belonging to Georgia !?
    Why is Tsitsianov smart and Javad Khan dodgy?
    Javad Khan was a brave, courageous and bearded man!
    On the contrary, Tsitsianov thought that he was cunning to Baku!
    I often read Samsonov’s second such chauvinist, a Nazi who hates Turks and Azerbaijanis you will not find!
    ** The huntsmen were not afraid and began to storm the second wall. The first to climb the stone wall was the brave Major Lisanevich. *** - Lisanevich was a vile killer who subsequently killed the Karabakh Khan — Ibrahim Khan and his family, including his young children !! He was killed after an insult to an Azerbaijani man!
    Tsitsianov was also an upstart and an arrogant cock, for which the Baku khan Abbas cooli killed him at the gates of Baku !!
    In its aggressive policy, the Russian Empire relied on robbers, unprincipled people, people to whom the word Honor was alien !!

    Agzina saqlik good
    Note many cheers patriots here shout Russia doesn’t need someone else’s, okay Georgia asked for help from the Russian Federation, the Armenians were brought in altogether, the mountaineers supposedly made extortionate raids and they had to be seized, Azerbaijan didn’t do any raid, but on the contrary everyone remembers the raids of one notorious robber who loved Caspian rob, but they captured us.
    And according to the article, they said people were unhappy with Javad Khan, many went over to the Russian side and it is immediately indicated in brackets that most of the Armenians were.
    I was glad that they did not call Ganja the ancient Armenian city of gandzak. This is the way that, having seized Karabakh, claims are still being made on Azerbaijani lands, so to speak, arrogance has no end.
    1. xan
      xan April 17 2013 16: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: Yeraz
      Note many cheers patriots here shout Russia doesn’t need someone else’s, okay Georgia asked for help from the Russian Federation,

      Well you give guys! If not for the Russian invaders, you would have been captured by the Turks or Persians. This is a real policy. You, as I understand it, prefer Turkey or Iran, but for me as a Russian they were enemies. In war as in war - what weakens the enemy strengthens you
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: xan
        If not for the Russian invaders, you would have been captured by the Turks or Persians

        So we are the Turks, my dear !!)))
        We did not become Russian)))
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 08 New
        0
        Quote: xan
        In war as in war - what weakens the enemy strengthens you

        Nobody argues with this !!
        You read the comments carefully!
        Claims to the bias of the author, that's all!
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 46 New
      +2
      Quote: Yeraz
      , the mountaineers supposedly did predatory raids and it was necessary to seize them, Azerbaijan did not raid

      the author in a previous article managed to write that the reason for the capture of the Azerbaijani khanates was their raids on the territory of Russia)))
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 09: 36 New
    +3
    Pay attention to the map! there is the Karabakh and Erivan Khanate. A worthy response to the usurpers who have climbed through the window and now claim to our ancestral lands.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 17 2013 10: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: xetai9977
      Pay attention to the map! there is the Karabakh and Erivan Khanate. A worthy response to the usurpers who have climbed through the window and now claim to our ancestral lands.

      And notice Lake Sevan there in the original Türkic name of Gokcha, where I come from.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 10: 46 New
        +4
        We are countrymen
  • xan
    xan April 17 2013 09: 37 New
    +4
    Map of Transcaucasia as a patchwork of khanates. How could one figure out who is Armenian, and who is Azerbaijani or Georgian? In such a situation of permanent stabbing, and even with the khans of a semi-robber mentality, the establishment of hard power the same over all was an unambiguous plus for the common people, but a minus for the nobility - the opportunity to hang out was lost.
    1. 416sd
      416sd April 17 2013 09: 44 New
      +3
      Not completely semi-slave :) Poetess Khurshud Banu Natavan daughter of the last Karabakh khan Mehtikuli Khan, granddaughter of Ibrahim Khalil Khan, for example, was personally acquainted with Dumas, they had an affair during his visit to the Caucasus.

      There, the blood was quite noble, all had roots from the end of the 15th century, in the Kyzylbash tribes.

      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%8B%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%88%D0
      % B8
      1. xan
        xan April 17 2013 16: 11 New
        0
        Quote: 416sd
        Not completely semi-slave :) Poetess Khurshud Banu Natavan daughter of the last Karabakh khan Mehtikuli Khan, granddaughter of Ibrahim Khalil Khan, for example, was personally acquainted with Dumas, they had an affair during his visit to the Caucasus.

        Dumas rummaged around the Russian Caucasus, and the poetess was among the Caucasian elite who accepted the conditions of the Russian bureaucracy. Among her family and Russian warriors were clearly
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 April 17 2013 10: 02 New
      +3
      There was a period of disunity among all peoples. Remember the many Russian principalities and German margrave. Someone earlier, someone later .. but ALL Azerbaijanis painfully perceive the division of the country into NORTH and SOUTH AZERBAIJAN.
      1. 416sd
        416sd April 17 2013 10: 04 New
        +3
        Everything in history has a price ...
  • radio operator
    radio operator April 17 2013 09: 43 New
    +2
    I read it with pleasure. Thanks!
    It is gratifying to know that there was a time when the empire was expanding, besides embezzlement there were other values.
    Put +.
  • Apollo
    Apollo April 17 2013 09: 49 New
    +2
    I greet you all hi

    Cognitively, and most importantly, clearly demonstrated, and where is the state of Armenia?! Something I do not see !!!

    sergeybala enlighten You are a candidate of science with a rating of 72868, Number of publications: 7, Number of comments: 4.

    I wonder how you are gaining a rating ?! laughing
  • ultra
    ultra April 17 2013 09: 51 New
    0
    Interesting article! Respect to the author! good
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz April 17 2013 10: 17 New
    +3
    And the Armenians, as always, betrayed and went over to the side of the enemy.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 12: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Yeraz
      And the Armenians, as always, betrayed and went over to the side of the enemy.

      You know, I often think it’s good that it so happened that they showed us their faces at the end of 80 !!
      If not for these events, I assure you that all the riches of our country would belong to a group of Armenians and Armenian women !!
      And who was friends with them and friends are to blame, deservedly received !!!
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 14: 06 New
        +3
        paradoxically, but it’s the Armenians (not knowing about it, of course) “calling” us “the Turk, the Turk” made us remember that we are really TURKS.
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz April 17 2013 14: 59 New
          +2
          Quote: xetai9977
          paradoxically, but it’s the Armenians (not knowing about it, of course) “calling” us “the Turk, the Turk” made us remember that we are really TURKS.

          By the way, in this regard, the Yeraza and Nakhchivan understood the respect of their Turkic origin due to their closer proximity to the Armenians, for the rest it took Karabakh, when they were killed not by krimm, kill the Azerbaijani, but they shot the Turks.
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: xetai9977
          paradoxically, but it’s the Armenians (not knowing about it, of course) “calling” us “the Turk, the Turk” made us remember that we are really TURKS.

          One hundred pluses !! ++
          Damn I remember a schoolboy fought with them for what they called behind the Turk!)))
      2. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 17 2013 14: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Yarbay
        Quote: Yeraz
        And the Armenians, as always, betrayed and went over to the side of the enemy.

        You know, I often think it’s good that it so happened that they showed us their faces at the end of 80 !!
        If not for these events, I assure you that all the riches of our country would belong to a group of Armenians and Armenian women !!
        And who was friends with them and friends are to blame, deservedly received !!!

        Most of all, those who continue to be friends, communicate well, are enraged by the common interests due to the fact that blacks are the same for everyone in Russia, but I don’t understand being friends.
        I was shocked when one oilman who has a friend, an Armenian, whom he calls his brother, when they walked along the street and Alikhan Samedov’s music sounded and I said how I adore our music, he told me so it’s an Armenian dudu. He managed to explain what was said they are stupid, but how many people like Armenians are brothers and Armenians are called sisters.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Yeraz
          .Goodly he succeeded in explaining the stupidity that he had said, and how many such people who are Armenians as brothers and call Armenians sisters.

          You are right!
          I knew very good people from their nation !!
          But I will never sit down at the same table with him after what they have done and what I saw !!
          Let them call what they want!
          Everyone is worthy of the brother or sister whom he calls so!
          I love my Motherland more than anything in the world, but most of all, the pods in my life have made my own, of course, not counting the Armenians!
          Therefore, I am not surprised at mankurts!
          I just understand that if not this war with the Armenians, 90 percent of all our wealth would belong to them, they knew how to find a language with officials and move forward !!
  • broker
    broker April 17 2013 10: 23 New
    0
    Will there be a sequel?
  • knn54
    knn54 April 17 2013 14: 07 New
    +3
    The Russian government sought to prevent the transition of Azerbaijan, Eastern Georgia and Eastern Armenia into the hands of a stronger Turkey, whose approval on the western coast of the Caspian Sea would pose a direct threat to the borders of Russia and Russian trade with the East. Still, Peter I planned to direct Iran's foreign trade with Europe along the Volga transit route and ensure Russian merchants dominance in this trade. The threat of Turkish invasion of Iranian lands accelerated Russia's uprising.
    PS Tsitsianov, who himself said: “I was born in Russia, I grew up there and have a Russian soul,” was a talented and brave commander, but a quick-tempered, stubborn and touchy person. Character properties determined its actions, including in Georgia itself.
    PPS Apollon ... and where is the state of Armenia?! Something I don’t see !!! Probably the Erivan Khanate ... Just, in some other article, this map was marked "... and Northern Armenia".
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 April 17 2013 15: 11 New
      +1
      Dear Nicholas, Well, where did you see the Christian KHANISM? Dial the ERIVAN KHANISMAN IN THE NETWORK and you will see that ALL the rulers and the main population of TURKEY. THE ARMENIANS MAKED AN EXPRESS MINORITY. "Thanks" to Griboedov, the 1st wave of the resettlement of Armenians from Turkey and Iran significantly changed the national composition (by the way , the same Griboedov died because of the provocation of the Armenians. But they don’t like to remember about it, you can’t offend “strategic partners”, and the 2nd wave was in 1947-1948. I myself come from Erivan. I remember my neighbor on the contrary, an elderly Armenian woman was an emigrant from Turkey. So she always talked in Turkish with us. According to her, they were trivially deceived. In order to entice them into Armenia they promised almost a free life. Roads back in Soviet times, as you know, was gone.
      1. 416sd
        416sd April 17 2013 15: 22 New
        +2
        Yes, there’s still Latin Haganate,
        Orthodox Disneyland
        armenian buddha
        and French Turkish Delight :)

        Don’t argue, the topic has gone to hell.
        Well, people don’t know. How many people do not know their story. You come in, look here, in a Russian story, people demolish each other's boshki, how do they know the subtleties of the history of the Caucasus. This is not considered an insult, they say stupid, etc. God forbid, just such a time.
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 17 2013 16: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      and where is the state of Armenia?

      wrote about this already in this thread!
      http://topwar.ru/26669-roman-lesnevskiy-tureckiy-marsh-u-yuzhnyh-rubezhey-rossii
      .html # comment-id-1068411
  • T-130
    T-130 April 17 2013 14: 15 New
    +1
    Opinions are certainly interesting, I agree in many respects with 416 sd. The peoples of this region have largely benefited from the conquest of Transcaucasia by Russia by Russia, but for Russia itself it seems to me more minuses, at least from information I know.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 17 2013 14: 27 New
      0
      Quote: T-130
      Opinions are certainly interesting, I agree in many respects with 416 sd. The peoples of this region have largely benefited from the conquest of Transcaucasia by Russia by Russia, but for Russia itself it seems to me more minuses, at least from information I know.

      Personally, my teip did not gain anything from this, except for the resettlement of Armenians in the Erivan Khanate and its transformation into Armenia, so that I could live without an opera, which could appear without Russians in principle, and the fact that I with opera and without the land of my ancestors where I can’t leave and bow, that’s a fact.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 17 2013 15: 33 New
        0
        Quote: T-130
        Opinions are certainly interesting, I agree in many respects with 416 sd. The peoples of this region have largely benefited from the conquest of Transcaucasia by Russia by Russia, but for Russia itself it seems to me more minuses, at least from information I know.

        The question is of course rhetorical. In my opinion, there are more minuses than pluses for us. On our historical lands they created the so-called "Armenia", "thanks to" joining our northern neighbor, we were involved in 2 world wars, we were disconnected from the southern brothers. And about the fear that supposedly, "we would be assimilated" it is also known to those who would assimilate whom. Most likely we would have farces (Persians).
      2. Leisure
        Leisure April 17 2013 15: 50 New
        +1
        Geopolitical game, nothing personal. They did not think about Azerbaijanis and Armenians, but first of all about the interests of the Empire.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 17 2013 17: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Lazer
          Geopolitical game, nothing personal. Not about Azerbaijanis and Armenians thought, but first of all about the interests of the Empire

          Of course !!!
          Just do not discuss it!
          and it is necessary to write in the article, and not insult the enemy and exalt the villain!
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 15: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: 755962
    Had a chance to serve in Ganja. It was 1989. And then the city was called Kirovabad. When will the World finally be there?

    Dear, this does not depend on us. When the DOGS DOGS will withdraw their dogs from us.
  • воронов
    воронов April 17 2013 18: 08 New
    0
    Russia left Transcaucasia, but in no case do you need to leave the North Caucasus
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 17 2013 19: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: voronov
      Russia left Transcaucasia, but in no case do you need to leave the North Caucasus

      And when did she leave? Does it seem that the Russian military base in Armenia with numerous weapons remains standing, or did the military bases in South Ossetia and Abkhazia be closed?
      Sorry of course, but they don’t leave like that wink
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 18: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    for some reason you have only one AGGRESSOR.

    Dear, and no one except the Russian audience does not justify their aggression (in the past) and no one supports the Armenian aggressors.
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 18: 49 New
    +3
    Quote: Yarbay
    if it weren’t for the Russian invaders, you would be captured by the Turks or Persians

    And we are TURKS. And half of Iran is generally Azerbaijani. Somehow we would sort out fraternally
    1. Orang
      Orang April 17 2013 20: 21 New
      +1
      You there would be a wolf howl from such a showdown fraternal
      And according to the article, Russia could not afford so many khanates on the southern border, the influence of Turkey and Iran is too great, therefore England and France
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 19: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: Rider
    Russians - tanks and drones.

    The irony is inappropriate.
    1. Rider
      Rider April 17 2013 21: 30 New
      0
      Quote: xetai9977
      The irony is inappropriate.


      like excuses, like you ... uh, peaks are longer.
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 17 2013 21: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: Orang
    You there would be a wolf howl from such a showdown fraternal

    Not a fact, dear, not a fact.