Military Review

Their morals. "Enlightened" Europe in the XV - XVI centuries.

169
Their morals. "Enlightened" Europe in the XV - XVI centuries.

In the West, Russia of the XVI century is represented by a “barbaric state” filled with mass executions, the elimination of political opponents, oppression of the people and other unattractive phenomena. Ivan the Terrible in these descriptions looks like a kind of monster, practically equal to the mythical Dracula.


However, if you look at Western Europe around the same period, you will notice that History Russia, in comparison with the pages of the history of Western European states, in the field of the morals of the rulers, the life of the nobility and the common people, is almost a model of humanity and Christian values.

The dark side of the era of "Renaissance"

When people talk about the Renaissance or the Renaissance (from the French. Renaissance, Italian. Rinascimento; from “ri” - “again” or “reborn”), they usually recall the flourishing of European culture, brilliant thinkers, scientists, artists, the era of Great geographical discoveries. But somehow, they leave aside that this was also the era of the most bloody wars, conspiracies, intrigues, insidious murders, mass terror against political and religious opponents. We must not forget that it was at this time in Europe that a moral breakdown occurred, when the craving for sensual pleasures became higher than chastity.

The epicenter of the "Renaissance" was Italy. At that time, there was no single Italian state and single Italian nation. The peninsula was divided into a number of state entities. Italian cities benefited from the crusades, the decline and destruction of the Byzantine Empire. While the French, German, English, and other warriors were dying in a foreign land, most of their mining flowed into the hands of enterprising Venetian, Genoese, and Florentine merchants and usurers. They provided transportation of troops, their supply by sea, receiving big profits. At the same time, the Italian (conditional name, since there was no single Italian people at that time) the merchant class took control of a large part of the trade in the Mediterranean. Monopolizing the supply of silk and spices from the East to Europe. These were not only the goods of delight, but a direct necessity. Silk saved the rich from parasites - lice, and spices were needed for processing meat. Goods were expensive and Italian merchants made super profits.

The money went to a "beautiful life." The nobility were often related to the banking clans, considered Ancient Rome to be a role model. Wealth went to the construction of luxurious palaces, decorated with exquisite statues, bas-reliefs, paintings. This allowed talented artists, architects, sculptures, and artists to express themselves. Venus began to displace the icon of the Mother of God, the nymph and satire - the apostles and saints. Even the icons began to write in a new fashion, approaching the "ancient" standards. Saints, often undressed, wrote from pretty models and models, from customers, noble and wealthy ladies and gentlemen.

In fact, there was a “revival” not of ancient Rome, but of the worst features of the late Roman empire, the era of decline and decay. In certain circles, “Greek love” - sodomy - came into vogue. Asceticism and visible chastity of the Middle Ages were rejected. Italy is overwhelmed by hedonism, when sensual pleasure is considered the highest goal and the greatest good of human life. The Decameron Boccaccio became more important than the Bible. Adultery was ridiculed. Sated rich sought for newness in perversions.

It would seem that the Catholic Church should have resisted such a serious attack on the souls of its parishioners. However, she herself was affected by the decomposition virus. The church was not only a spiritual, but also a secular institution, which possessed enormous wealth. This wealth was a serious prerequisite for decomposition. Popes and spiritual feudal lords were sovereign masters in their lands. The places of the legates, canons, abbots of the monasteries were considered primarily as sources of income. Posts were sold, given in the awards. Even young children of large secular feudal lords could become abbots and abbess. At that time, many feudal lords, thus, attached their children, since this promised many benefits. Spiritual feudal lords, as well as secular ones, hit upon luxury, excess, debauchery. The catholic elite was badly laid out.

Suffice to say, people became heads of the Catholic Church, who even with a stretch can hardly be called worthy representatives of the human race. So, in 1410 - 1415. Pope was a pirate, murderer and sodomite John XXIII (Balthazar Cossa). Pope Sixtus IV (Francesco della Rovere) - reigned from 1471 to 1484, noted as a bribe taker, killer and sodomite.

Among the rather significant number of criminals and perverts who occupied the post of Pope, apparently, Alexander VI (Rodrigo Bordja), who was the head of the church in 1492 - 1503, belongs to the first place. This Spanish nobleman came to Italy for his career, as his mother was the sister of Cardinal Alfonso Borgia, who became Pope Calixtus III. He cohabited with many women. He was beaten up as a cardinal, and then as a pope, without losing money on bribes (the pope's post could also be bought, like any other order in the church). Thus, the Venetian Cardinal Rodrigo bribed 5 thousand gold and provided his 12-year-old daughter for the night. Having received the desired post, Alexander VI began to glorify children. His son, Giovanni Borgia, received the title of Prince of Gandia and the Session, as well as the "Papal Standard-bearer and General of the Church Captain." Cesare Borgia title of Cardinal and Duke of Romagna and Valentinois. His daughter Lucretia became the personification of sexual promiscuity that prevailed in Rome. She was the mistress of her father - the Pope (!). In addition to sexual promiscuity, the Borgia family was renowned for using poisons to eliminate political opponents and unwanted individuals. It is clear that such a Catholic Church could not resist the “rebirth”.

But even the decaying Catholic Church did not suit certain circles. Work began on creating a more convenient version of Christianity. In principle, various sects and heresies existed in Europe for a long time - even at the beginning of our era, Gnosticism arose, which used motifs from the Old Testament, Eastern mythology and a number of early Christian teachings. There were sects of Manicheans, Kabbalists, Pavlikians, Bogumils, Waldensians, Cathars, etc. In Byzantium, for some time, the iconoclasts gained power. In the south of France, the heresy of the Albigensians spread over the centuries in 12 - 13, leading to a bloody war. The Templar Order was suspected of heresy (the question is ambiguous, since the main reason for the destruction of the order could have been its successful financial activities).

The Renaissance created favorable conditions for the germination of a larger-scale heretical movement. It all began in England, where John Wycliffe (Wycliffe), professor at Oxford University, in 1376 — 1377. He began to condemn the greed and wealth of the clergy, referring to the fact that neither Christ nor his apostles possessed neither property nor secular power. In his lectures, the professor declared that the church should not have property and the king had the right to secularize church lands, and also opposed the papacy’s claims to levy extortion from England. This idea interested the royal power and some major feudal lords. The king liked the idea that the king was the vicar of God and that the bishops should be subject to the king. Wycliffe rejected the episcopal degree, the doctrine of purgatory and indulgences; considered confession violence of conscience and offered to be content with the inner repentance of man before God. He said that there should be no intermediaries between man and God. Wycliffe and his supporters were defeated, but his ideas were taken up by Jan Hus and his followers by the Hussites.

Gus proposed a reform of the church in the Czech Republic, similar to the one proclaimed by Wyclif. He was executed, but the discontent of the Czechs with the church, reinforced by national oppression (the dominance of the Germans), led to an uprising and a long war. Hussites started a war against Rome and the emperor, exterminated and expelled Catholics, smashed monasteries and churches. The Pope declared 1 March 1420, a crusade against the Hussite heretics. In Silesia, Emperor Sigismund gathered an army of German, Polish and Hungarian knights, as well as infantry, which was the militia of the Silesian cities and Italian mercenaries. However, the Hussites created a very efficient army, which was able to repel knightly troops. The war continued until the 1434 year.

In the Czech Republic, church reform was understood ambiguously. The Chashniki demanded the elimination of the dominance of the German feudal lords and the German patrician in the Czech Republic, they wanted the secularization of church lands, the freedom to preach and the creation of a national church. They believed that in the rite of communion people should take communion with bread and wine (as in the Orthodox, with the Catholics only the priests take communion with wine, and the laity with wafers). The Taborites moved on. They wanted to destroy the royal power and establish a republic, denied any hierarchy, both spiritual and secular. They preached the idea of ​​socializing property. There were extreme sects, like Adamites, who wanted to return "in the time of Adam," walked naked and indulged in free love. The Chashniki and the Taborites destroyed the Adamites. Then fought with each other. Finally, in 1433, the cups made a compromise with the Catholic Church (Prague Compacts) and in 1434, together with the Catholics, broke the taborites. During this long and bloody war, the Czech Republic and the neighboring areas were seriously devastated. So, the Czech Republic lost 1,5 million people and became devastated "desert".

But these were only “flowers”, “berries” - the Reformation and the Peasant War in Germany, the Reformation in the Netherlands and the Netherlands Revolution, the Huguenot wars in France, etc., will be yet to come.

Heresy struck and the Catholic elite. After all, hedonism is absolutely not consistent with the basics of Christian morality. The rich, bathed in luxury and sensual pleasures, needed a different teaching that would justify their way of life. Therefore, Christianity remained in the lot of the "dark" common people. And among the nobility, various astrologers, soothsayers, alchemists, “psychics” gained popularity. It is becoming fashionable to teach that God is only a “prime mover,” and elements, planets, and stars control life. Astrology was recognized as the truth of first instance. Know the horoscopes for marriage, the beginning of transactions, the rulers consulted astrologers when to start a war.

True, they did not look at such freethinking everywhere calmly. On the Iberian Peninsula, where under the flag of religion, there was a long and stubborn war with Muslims, the question of faith was more strict. Muslims were expelled, converted to Christianity and slavery. It was not easy for Jews, too, under the rule of the Moors. Many tried to adapt and conditionally converted to Christianity, secretly keeping the old faith. In the 1478 year, an Inquisition led by Thomas Torquemada was instituted to combat heresies and gentiles. The results of his activities were: the expulsion of Jews from Spain, Sardinia and Sicily, the expulsion of the Moors (occurred after the death of the "Grand Inquisitor"); confiscation of the property of convicts by the Inquisition, the burning of hundreds of heretics at the stake.

It should be noted that part of the Jews moved to Italy, and so many of them were associated with trading and usurious activities, they had long-standing ties with local trading and banking circles. In turn, Italian princes and aristocrats were associated with bankers. And churchmen depended on bankers and aristocrats. Therefore, in Italy, in the center of the Catholic world, Jews were not persecuted. Thus, in Italy, the first “financial international” was formed from the “black” (departed from Christianity) aristocracy and Jewish usurers. He later relocated to Holland and England.

Even the fight against "witches" in Europe was selective. At the courts of the aristocracy, including the spiritual, various astrologers, magicians, fortune-tellers, fortune-tellers, and prophets flourished. In Florence, at the Palace of the Medici, the Platonov Academy openly operated, where they studied Kabbalah and other secret teachings. In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII issued the famous “Summis desiderantes affectibus” bull, which served as the basis for a new wave of “witch hunt”. In 1487, a treatise on demonology “The Hammer of the Witches” was published, which was written by two Germanic monks, Dominican inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Shprenger. It was a fundamental legal and practical guide to the detection and destruction of "witches". All over Europe fires were blazed. They got midwives and healers, just beautiful women, etc. They destroyed the knowledge holders who did not fit into the official Catholic concept of the picture of the world. They were subjected to savage torture and thousands of innocent people died.

The life of the European population

Europe in the 15-16 centuries still remained agrarian, the land was the main wealth. Actually "wealth", i.e. the products necessary for life, was produced by the peasants. From them both the monarchs, the secular and spiritual feudal lords, the local administration dragged into three skins. Direct requisitions were supplemented with various state monopolies, duties. Often the direct owners of the peasants, in need of cash and getting into debt, gave them away. Tax collectors did not stand on ceremony with the peasants at all. Peasants were considered only as a source of income, were powerless and downtrodden (except for small, remote corners where relatively free peasant communities remained), lived in miserable huts with a dirt floor, without windows and heated by a hearth, since the windows and pipes were subject to a separate tax .

True, classical serfdom in Western Europe in most of the countries died off. But the nobles still lived at the expense of the peasants. Now the nobles preferred to lease the land. But at the same time preserving the legal authority over the peasants, the right of court over them, the land is in their property. Most of the nobles barely make ends meet. Dear weapon and the clothes were inherited. In many ways, the ruin of the nobility was associated with exorbitant spending and inability to manage the economy.

Therefore, they tried to improve their condition by participating in numerous wars, when robbery was a legal phenomenon. The basis of the armies were feudal militias. By order of the suzerain, his vassals led detachments. But aristocrats were often unreliable, betrayed, in no hurry to carry out orders. Therefore, the feudal militia began to supplement the mercenary troops. Entire regions specialize in this craft - Scotland, Switzerland and the German principalities. At war, such troops were distinguished by extreme cruelty and looting, trying to reward themselves with violence and booty. The maintenance of the army was an expensive pleasure, so the monarchs and the great feudal lords tried to gather troops only for the duration of the hostilities. In peacetime, treated with small guard units.

The cult of luxury, which sharply intensified with the beginning of the Renaissance, became ruinous for the nobility. Not only small and medium feudal lords, but the earls, dukes, monarchs were indebted to merchants and usurers, pledging lands, castles and other assets, such as family jewels. As a result, increased taxes on producers - peasants and citizens. The impoverished nobles, trying to rectify the situation, tried to get a retinue to the rich nobles. For this they received various handouts. There were other ways to improve the situation. It was considered good luck to arrange a son along the church line. Spiritual feudal lords prospered (the church was the largest landowner in Europe) and could help relatives. In addition, it was possible to try to make the cute daughter become the lover of a high-ranking official. It was not considered shameful. On the contrary, such a case was considered a great success and luck. In particular, in France, nobles with beautiful daughters actually sold them. Offered to nobles, dukes, princes, kings. The question was in price, not the moral side of things.

According to the present, large cities in Western Europe were few - Rome, Naples, Paris and London. The population of most cities numbered only a few thousand people. They tried to build houses in the ring of the fortress walls, so they were built on the 3-4 floors, and the houses strongly hampered the streets, turning them into streets about 2 wide. The crews could drive only the main streets. For the rest, the cargo was carried in carts, people moved on foot or on horseback, and noble people were worn in porters. There was no sewage system. Various garbage and waste products were simply thrown into the streets, canals, ponds, rivers, ditches. The traveler learned about the approach to the city from a distance - by the smell of sewage. Unsanitary conditions and overcrowding made urban dwellers the first victims of frequent epidemics, which claimed a very large percentage of the population.

Interestingly, wealth often side by side with a lack of basic hygiene. Many thought it was bad to wash. No wonder that lice in England were called “gentleman’s companion”. There were no toilets even in the palaces. Used the night pots or relieved behind the curtains.

To be continued ...
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Their morals. "Enlightened" Europe in the XV - XVI centuries.
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  1. Deniska999
    Deniska999 27 March 2013 08: 22 New
    +9
    Enlightened, but the Inquisition? Colonization?
    1. Sasha 19871987
      Sasha 19871987 27 March 2013 11: 25 New
      13
      and we went to the bathhouse, so we didn’t need silk, because the parasites didn’t torment us, unlike the nonsense ...
      1. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 03: 14 New
        +4
        Quote: Sasha 19871987
        and we went to the bathhouse, so we didn’t need silk, because the parasites didn’t torment us, unlike the nonsense ...

        oh and don't say
        “A true Frenchman must wash himself twice in life: at birth and death” - King of France Louis XIV (1638-1715).

        The Russian ambassadors at the court of Louis XIV wrote: "Their Majesty stinks like a wild beast." Forget science fiction films and novels, like “3 Musketeers” with beautiful palaces, ladies, gentlemen, magnificent receptions ... in fact, terrible savagery and stench reigned in Europe until the XNUMXth century.

        “To which barbaric country did you send me. Here the dwellings are gloomy, the churches are ugly, and the morals are terrible ... ”- Princess Anna of France.
        Hygiene in Europe

        Bath. In the XV-XVI centuries, Europeans washed 1-2 times a year. In the XVII-XVIII centuries. generally stopped taking baths. Christian preachers ordered to go in rags and never wash, claiming that in this way spiritual purification can be achieved. Body care was considered a sin, because you can wash off the holy water that you touched at baptism.

        A medical treatise of the XNUMXth century warned: “Water baths warm the body, but weaken the body and expand the pores. Therefore, they can cause illness and even death. ” At the end of the XIX century, Dr. F.E. In his book “A New Natural Treatment”, Biltz persuaded people to start bathing: “There are people who do not dare to bathe in the river or in the bath, since they have never entered the water since childhood. This fear is groundless. ”

        Wig. Dirty Europeans were eaten by fleas and lice, so many shaved their heads and put on a wig. Flea traps were laid in lush wigs (a device with a bait - a piece of fur soaked in blood). Another reason for the popularity of wigs was the syphilis epidemic - the wig covered up syphilitic baldness.

        Clothing. Aristocrats wore silk underwear under exquisite outfits. Its popularity is explained by the fact that lice and fleas were not found in slippery matter, they have nothing to cling to. The poor did not have any change of clothes (it was too expensive) and clothes were rarely washed. Moreover, walking in a rag and feeding lice was considered a "Christian feat." Lice were called "God's pearls", to look for them on each other, like monkeys, means to show their location. In Versailles and the Louvre there was a special page for catching the king’s fleas.

        Bed. There was a canopy (canopy) above the bed. In Europe, the canopy served as protection against bedbugs so that they would not fall from the ceiling.

        Restroom. The "civilized" Europe did not know the toilets for a long time, they celebrated the need where necessary. For example, in the Louvre, the entire courtyard, each avenue was littered with thousands of piles left by both residents and daily visitors. There is information that was empty even on stairs, balconies and in corridors. Noble tenants periodically left the Louvre to clean the palace and, if possible, ventilate it.
        Residents of Parisian high-rise buildings poured slops out the window, often on the heads of passers-by, so the Europeans wore hats with wide brim (shook off and went on). The streets were so littered with shit that it was impossible to get through the mud. It is believed that for this reason in many German cities appeared stilts - "spring shoes", without them it was impossible to move. Even when the Europeans realized that the toilets would not be superfluous, they began to make them not as it should with a cesspool, but attached them from the outside of the houses - all the “fertilizers” fell on the heads of the gaping passers-by.

        “The Russians are the cleanest people, because they wash themselves in a steam bath every week” - F. Wellesley (1844-1931) - quotes about the Russian people
        1. psdf
          psdf 28 March 2013 05: 36 New
          0
          It is so difficult to believe in such savagery that it is easier to consider it propaganda.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 March 2013 07: 08 New
            0
            Quote: psdf
            It’s so hard to believe in such savagery that it’s easier to consider it propaganda

            one must not believe one must study
    2. Anti
      Anti 27 March 2013 14: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Deniska999
      Enlightened, but the Inquisition? Colonization?


      Also, one should not forget about the baptism of Russia by fire and sword.
      1. Defender
        Defender 27 March 2013 14: 40 New
        -9
        Who told you this? Soviet atheists, or French liberals?
        1. Anti
          Anti 27 March 2013 14: 58 New
          +6
          More precisely, to whom is the question? Defender? These Soviet atheists saved the world from fascism left behind a strong country, where was your church when it was destroyed, stuffed its bins? In general, Russia Rusich had their gods and they were not their slaves.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 27 March 2013 15: 56 New
            -3
            Quote: Anti
            where was your church when it was being destroyed stuffed its bins?

            Our church (if you are a Russian) did the same thing - earned money, plundered the country.
            1. Anti
              Anti 27 March 2013 16: 30 New
              +6
              Quote: Setrac
              (if you are Russian)


              It sounds like Yeltsin, I’m Soviet Russian, not Russian-Russian, because smile

              Quote: Setrac
              did the same thing - earned loot, plundered the country.

              There are still many doubters unfortunately.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 27 March 2013 18: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: Anti
                It sounds like Yeltsin, I’m Soviet Russian, not Russian-Russian, because

                It was necessary to specify the addressees more specifically, there are many Russians who are not Russian citizens, and there are many Russians who are not Russian. According to Zadornov - I had to take the degree of development of the opponent.
                1. Anti
                  Anti 27 March 2013 18: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Setrac
                  had to take a degree


                  and how did you accept it? laughing
            2. Defender
              Defender 27 March 2013 16: 57 New
              +4
              Our church (if you are a Russian) did the same thing - earned money, plundered the country.
              To put it mildly, you are confusing something. How the Russian Orthodox Church plundered the country ??? wassat
              1. Anti
                Anti 27 March 2013 17: 13 New
                -1
                Quote: Defender
                How the Russian Orthodox Church plundered the country ???


                Seek, and you will find; knock, and they will open it to you, may your God help you on the Internet wassat
                1. Defender
                  Defender 27 March 2013 18: 33 New
                  +3
                  “Seek, and you will find; knock, and they will open it to you, may your God help you on the Internet”
                  There is a lot of things on the Internet, but usually in dirty messages there is little or no truth at all ...
                  1. Anti
                    Anti 27 March 2013 23: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: Defender
                    There is a lot of things on the Internet, but usually in dirty messages there is little or no truth at all ...


                    what are you doing here then?
                2. ABV
                  ABV 27 March 2013 23: 39 New
                  0
                  God and the Russian Orthodox Church are different things ... well, they’re different, no matter what they say ... but we believe in God, and the Russian Orthodox Church too ...
              2. ABV
                ABV 27 March 2013 23: 37 New
                +1
                I went out of the temple here after the service ... so the 7th Mazda Sivi nearly knocked me and a couple of people parked in the temple yard!))) ,,, our priest flew in ... and the liturgy was conducted by a younger priest .. from new ones .. he has so far-- a right-handed Japanese woman old .. and we’ll still go to the temple ...!
                1. YuDDP
                  YuDDP 28 March 2013 01: 00 New
                  +2
                  There used to be horses and carriages. Do not they walk?
                2. ULxaw86
                  ULxaw86 28 March 2013 09: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: ABV
                  I went out of the temple here after the service ... so the 7th Mazda Sivi nearly knocked me and a couple of people parked in the temple yard!))) ,,, our priest flew in ... and the liturgy was conducted by a younger priest .. from new ones .. he has so far-- a right-handed Japanese woman old .. and we’ll still go to the temple ...!

                  All right. The priests are not the same !! I was born in a village, my parents live there. The local father holds a whole geese farm, grows a potato plantation, etc. He has a Belarus tractor, attachments ... And the parishioners of the church work for him !!!! For this)))) He doesn’t partake the refuseniks, does not baptize their children, etc.
                  Is it the ROC?
                  1. bezumnyiPIT
                    bezumnyiPIT 28 March 2013 09: 29 New
                    +4
                    Yes, this is the Russian Orthodox Church, and two hundred and three hundred years ago it was the Russian Church, and before that the Moscow Metropolis, and earlier the Kiev Metropolis, the Church throughout its history played the role of a brainwasher for the common man, convinced him of the divine power and demanded unconditional slavish submission this very authority, a kind of ministry of propaganda
                    1. ULxaw86
                      ULxaw86 28 March 2013 14: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: bezumnyiPIT
                      Yes, this is the Russian Orthodox Church, and two hundred and three hundred years ago it was the Russian Church, and before that the Moscow Metropolis, and earlier the Kiev Metropolis, the Church throughout its history played the role of a brainwasher for the common man, convinced him of the divine power and demanded unconditional slavish submission this very authority, a kind of ministry of propaganda

                      And in the neighboring village there is a priest, the perfect antipode to "ours." Rides the old six, very responsive, which is called close to the people and the numbers in his price list do not scare)))
            3. anomalocaris
              anomalocaris 27 March 2013 18: 01 New
              +2
              I am Russian, but not a Christian at all, so where was YOUR church?
          2. Defender
            Defender 27 March 2013 16: 25 New
            -1
            The question was for you, Anti. Soviet atheists are a \\\\\\ Masonic gang led by "Lenin" and their hangers-on on atheistic propaganda.
            According to the 1937 census. about 80% of Soviet people called themselves believers ... Great Russia becomes only after it became Holy, under St. Alexy of Moscow, educator of St. Dmitry Donskoy and Sergius of Radonezh with his students. Spirit creates forms for itself.
            And any paganism leads to human sacrifice, because it is the highest sacrifice. And woe to all the inhabitants of that country, which will become strong with the "gods in the head." Watch Mel Gibson's Apocalypse.
            In normal Christianity: A servant of God = a servant of the king.
            1. Anti
              Anti 27 March 2013 16: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Defender
              And any paganism leads to human sacrifice


              How much more does your god need more sacrifices and blood?

              Quote: Defender
              Servant of God = Servant of the king.


              Who cares ? A servant is a slave.

              Quote: Defender
              this is a masonic gang


              Who is your God by nationality?
              1. Defender
                Defender 27 March 2013 17: 44 New
                +2
                How much more does your god need more sacrifices and blood? I did not understand the question.
                "What's the difference? A servant is a slave." Any soldier is a servant of the people, he gave such an oath. You and the homeland did not defend?
                Before you scolded Christianity, at least a little familiarity with it laughing GOD OF NATIONALITY DOES NOT HAVE !!!
                1. Anti
                  Anti 27 March 2013 18: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Defender
                  Any soldier is a servant of the people

                  Actually, this is the defender of the homeland.

                  And the servants of the people are officials deputies and so on.

                  Quote: Defender
                  Before you scolded Christianity, at least a little familiarity with it


                  getting acquainted already, the comrade in the photo created with his statements more atheists than you can imagine wink
                  1. Defender
                    Defender 27 March 2013 18: 50 New
                    -2
                    Actually, this is the defender of the homeland.

                    And the servants of the people are officials deputies and so on.

                    Yes, you never said: "I serve Russia!" I wonder what you are doing on this forum ???
                    Well, that’s not at all serious ... (about Gundyayev) I wonder from what his book, article or speech such statement was pulled out ???
                    1. Anti
                      Anti 27 March 2013 22: 31 New
                      0
                      I spoke I serve the Soviet Union and it was the Russian Empire-Imreria Slavs.
                    2. Anti
                      Anti 27 March 2013 22: 43 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Defender
                      Well, that’s not at all serious ... (about Gundyayev) I wonder from what his book, article or speech such statement was pulled out ???

                  2. tomket
                    tomket 27 March 2013 21: 54 New
                    0
                    you still photoshop mustache ala Hitler priresovyte, and tryndite that he is the reincarnation of Adolf
                  3. ABV
                    ABV 27 March 2013 23: 45 New
                    +1
                    Gundyaev, bro .... and we will forgive the boilers for him ... he is not for the sake of humanity, but for selfishness!
              2. Egoza
                Egoza 27 March 2013 18: 28 New
                10
                "When Christianity was adopted in Russia by fire and sword, the old battered, wounded, dying magus said that Russia had betrayed her gods and for this she would face severe trials, many years and winters would pass and Russia would return to its gods."
                The fact that in Russia Christianity was adopted far from peaceful means is beyond doubt. And the way the Magi were persecuted and destroyed - too. But the fact that many knowledge was lost at the same time, at least healing, did not interest anyone.
                1. Defender
                  Defender 27 March 2013 18: 41 New
                  +2
                  "When Christianity was adopted in Russia by fire and sword, the old battered, wounded, dying magus said that Russia had betrayed her gods and for this she would face severe trials, many years and winters would pass and Russia would return to its gods."
                  I wonder who interviewed him? wink
                2. tomket
                  tomket 27 March 2013 21: 53 New
                  +2
                  Yeah, he just said so, but before death he didn’t ask him to be considered a communist ??? and Polevoi wrote down the words, not otherwise. and right there in the "pioneer truth" they printed that the descendants could quote))))))
                3. ABV
                  ABV 27 March 2013 23: 47 New
                  0
                  uh, .. The fidget is curious ... nice ... interesting, well and nice in the end ...
                  this is the essence of some sort ... there is no time to dig everything ... would write thoughts on this subject ... like a thread ..
              3. Su24
                Su24 27 March 2013 20: 38 New
                -2
                Say right away: are you an anarchist?
            2. anomalocaris
              anomalocaris 27 March 2013 18: 05 New
              +8
              Yeah. The only thing is that the blood of my ancestors tells me that the word "slave" must be answered inadequately, so that those who have already said this can no longer say anything.
              1. Orang
                Orang 27 March 2013 19: 33 New
                0
                It’s not funny for yourself?
              2. tomket
                tomket 27 March 2013 21: 56 New
                -1
                how does blood speak to you? in Old Slavonic? or in Drevlyansky? and maybe in Polyanskiy? and the translator constantly walks with you, what would the messages be translated or do you understand it by intuition?)
            3. Setrac
              Setrac 27 March 2013 18: 14 New
              +6
              This is because you put an equal sign between Faith and the church, these concepts are not equal, and not even close. The church is a secular organization that cynically uses Faith for its own selfish purposes.
              Quote: Defender
              And any paganism leads to human sacrifice, because it is the highest sacrifice.

              Human sacrifices by pagans (at least in Russia) are not scientifically proven, historically imposed by the historians, at the same time, the Christian church (all branches) proved to be a very bloody religion.
              1. Defender
                Defender 27 March 2013 19: 02 New
                +1
                Please indicate the bloody facts of the Orthodox Church.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 27 March 2013 20: 45 New
                  +3
                  I wrote that all Christianity is a bloody religion, of which Orthodoxy is the mildest, but they were also noted, as I understand it, you are interested in Russian Orthodoxy!
                  So the bloody deeds of the Christian religion: the Christianization of Russia, the schism, the destruction of the Old Believers (faithful), crimes in worldly life - they judged, killed, robbed, robbed, etc., wars against the Gentiles with their power ... Enough?
                  1. tomket
                    tomket 27 March 2013 21: 59 New
                    -1
                    I didn’t hear that someone would die during the Christianization of Russia, please see the list, who, when, where, who tortured you. No? then do not tryndyte. you apparently are new to other religions, otherwise you would be horrified by the revelry of "humanity" among the same peaceful Buddhists.
                    1. tomket
                      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 46 New
                      0
                      you please do not put a minus, and provide a list of innocently killed victims of the pagans during the baptism of Russia. otherwise you'll remain a hollow bream)
                      1. Skuto
                        Skuto 27 March 2013 23: 16 New
                        +6
                        Wiki:
                        “It is known that the first episcopal departments, besides Kiev, were Novgorod, and also, possibly, Chernihiv and Vladimir-Volynskaya and Belgorod (now the village of Belogorodka near Kiev), the Pereyaslav diocese.

                        Christianity was imposed on parts of the territory by force; at the same time, the religious buildings of the Gentiles were destroyed, those who resisted were subjected to repression [26] [27] [28].

                        According to some chronicles [29], Novgorod resisted the introduction of Christianity: he was baptized in 990 by Bishop Joachim with the military assistance of the Kiev governor Dobrynia (brother of Prince Vladimir’s mother, Malusha) and the thousand Putyata [30].

                        In Rostov and Murom, resistance to the introduction of Christianity, according to traditional church history, continued until the XII century: the first two bishops sent to Rostov were expelled, the third - St. Leonty - did a lot for the establishment of the Christian faith in Rostov. Finally, Rostovites were baptized only by Bishop Isaiah († 15 on May 1090) [31], who ascended to the pulpit in 1078. Apparently, the events described in the "Life" [1070] [32] of Abraham of Rostov, in particular, his crushing of the idol Veles, in the place of which the Epiphany Monastery was built, also belong to the 33s. "

                        In fairness, I add:

                        “It’s interesting at the same time that, judging by the sources, the pagan spiritual elite was repressed only if it initiated the unrest, uprisings or separatism. According to some researchers, based on the“ Tale of Bygone Years, ”“ the uprising of the Magi ”in Vladimir Suzdal Rus in 1024 (and also in 1071 year) was accompanied by ritualistic acts and murders [42]. Yaroslav the Wise "brutally cracked down the Magi, putting things in order in tributary areas" [42]; in the 1070's in Novgorod killed by a squad Prince Gleb (“it was a religious and everyday conflict intertwined with the struggle against the power of Kiev”) [43]. (See Suzdal Uprising of the 1024 of the year) "
                      2. alexandr00070
                        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: Skuto
                        In fairness, I add:

                        well done ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, in such opponents is not bad illiteracy ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, bad Laziness- MATUS is difficult to google the internet, and we crucify them
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 31 New
                      -1
                      Quote: tomket
                      you please do not put a minus, and provide a list of innocently killed victims of the pagans during the baptism of Russia. otherwise you'll remain a hollow bream)

                      Evidence of the sea, I will give one. Before baptism, Russia is a country of cities, as Europeans called it, after baptism, the population of Russia was ALL smaller than, for example, in Poland or Sweden. Almost the entire population was knocked out, Russia for several centuries could not recover from such demographic damage. According to some estimates, before the baptism, the population of Russia was 12 million, after the baptism of 3 million. Then everyone dumped on the Mongol-Tatar yoke, but, I will draw the attention of those who wrote the annals, it is clear that the ROC tried to justify itself.
                    3. YuDDP
                      YuDDP 28 March 2013 01: 09 New
                      -1
                      This is not proof, it’s you whose book it’s not clear whose you read and retold to us.
                    4. alexandr00070
                      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 04 New
                      0
                      Quote: YuDDP
                      This is not proof, it’s you whose book it’s not clear whose you read and retold to us.

                      You don’t do this either, just express a general opinion
                  2. Yashka Gorobets
                    Yashka Gorobets 28 March 2013 03: 53 New
                    0
                    I have not read such nonsense for a long time.
              2. Setrac
                Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 34 New
                +3
                Quote: tomket
                you are probably new to other religions, otherwise you would be horrified by the revelry of "humanity" among the same peaceful Buddhists.

                Such "humanity" is characteristic of all Chinese, regardless of whether he is a Buddhist or an atheist, regardless of religion.
              3. alexandr00070
                alexandr00070 28 March 2013 04: 57 New
                0
                Quote: tomket
                list please by name, who, when, where, who tortured. No? then do not tryndyte. you apparently are new to other religions, otherwise you would be horrified by the revelry of "humanity" among the same peaceful Buddhists.

                a stupid approach to the dispute and the conversation is not about other religions, you still cannibals remember, but Christians who killed hundreds of thousands of Indians for tobacco and potatoes, yes ............. this is divine
          3. Anti
            Anti 27 March 2013 23: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Defender
            Please indicate the bloody facts of the Orthodox Church.


            A.V. Kartishev (1875-1960), recognized in the world as one of the largest experts in the history of the Orthodox Church:
            In the life of the Russian church and state, the system and spirit of the Western Inquisition were applied. Even at the big cathedral of 1666-67 Eastern hierarchs blessed the state sword to intimidate those who opposed the church ... Persevering ones were transferred by the diocesan authorities to the hands of civil authorities, and they punished them physically, by whipping ... and even the death penalty. In 1685 a civil law was passed, approved by the king and the boyar duma. It declared a sweeping prohibition of the very existence of a church schism in the Russian state. Persistent, opposing St. church and "laying blasphemy on her," - burn in a log house. Hiding and exposed - beat with a whip and exile to distant lands. Concealers punish with a whip and sticks. The property of the executed shall be taken to the treasury ...
            The fathers of the cathedral in 1667 wrote: "to punish the wicked ... and execute them with different languor and various torments." And further historical examples are given: "and cut off tongues, cut off ears, cut off ears and noses, and dishonor them by bargaining, and then sent them to be imprisoned until their deaths" ... "Behold we know from these, as heretics and schismatics not only be punished by church punishment, but also royal ...
          4. Anti
            Anti 27 March 2013 23: 10 New
            +2
            Defender Today, 19:02 Please indicate the bloody facts of the Orthodox Church.



            Historian E.F. Grekulov:
            As a result of the brutal reprisal of the spiritual department with schismatics during the XVIII century. 1733 people were burned, and 10567 people subjected themselves to self-immolation ...
            Bishop Pitirim personally conducted interrogations of schismatics with bias, tortured them in a bishop’s prison, subjected to “city” punishment with cutting nostrils. Thus, as Pitirim boasted, over 68 thousand people were converted to Orthodoxy. Fleeing the persecution of this inquisitor, 12701 people fled, 1585 - could not stand the torture and torture, and died, 598 were exiled and sent to hard labor "
            The mass self-immolation of schismatics under the influence of persecution is evidenced by the consolidated Old Believer "synodik"; only for 1667-1700 8834 people betrayed themselves to this painful execution "


            A.V. Kartishev (1875-1960), recognized in the world as one of the largest experts in the history of the Orthodox Church:
            In the life of the Russian church and state, the system and spirit of the Western Inquisition were applied. Even at the big cathedral of 1666-67 Eastern hierarchs blessed the state sword to intimidate those who opposed the church ... Persevering ones were transferred by the diocesan authorities to the hands of civil authorities, and they punished them physically, by whipping ... and even the death penalty. In 1685 a civil law was passed, approved by the king and the boyar duma. It declared a sweeping prohibition of the very existence of a church schism in the Russian state. Persistent, opposing St. church and "laying blasphemy on her," - burn in a log house. Hiding and exposed - beat with a whip and exile to distant lands. Concealers punish with a whip and sticks. The property of the executed shall be taken to the treasury ...
            The fathers of the cathedral in 1667 wrote: "to punish the wicked ... and execute them with different languor and various torments." And further historical examples are given: "and cut off tongues, cut off ears, cut off ears and noses, and dishonor them by bargaining, and then sent them to be imprisoned until their deaths ..." and schismatics do not have church punishment
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 27 March 2013 23: 22 New
              0
              Quote: Anti
              Historian E.F. Grekulov:

              Quote: Anti
              A.V. Kartishev (1875-1960),

              And do you mean these were present at the events described? belay
              1. Anti
                Anti 27 March 2013 23: 26 New
                0
                Quote: Allex28
                And do you mean these were present at the events described?


                Indicate your smile
                1. Aleks28
                  Aleks28 27 March 2013 23: 33 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Anti
                  Indicate your

                  You know the answer perfectly. Just your comment.
                  Quote: Anti
                  Have you been present at the Baptism of Russia?

                  nothing better than this:
                  Quote: tomket
                  you please do not put a minus, and provide a list of the innocently killed victims of the pagans during the baptism of Russia.

                  Still, I would have requested personal files, with photos. request
                2. alexandr00070
                  alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 08 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Allex28

                  Quote: Anti
                  Indicate your
                  You know the answer perfectly. Just your comment.
                  Quote: Anti
                  Have you been present at the Baptism of Russia?
                  nothing better than this:
                  Quote: tomket
                  you please do not put a minus, and provide a list of the innocently killed victims of the pagans during the baptism of Russia.
                  Still, I would have requested personal files, with photos.

                  from the fellow, as in the good old days, he gathered everyone together in Kolyma and right and wrong
            2. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Allex28
              And do you mean these were present at the events described?

              and you are arguing constructively in your opinion, but from the side of ,,,,,,,,, yourself, it turns out
          5. Setrac
            Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: Anti
            and 10567 people subjected themselves to self-immolation ...

            Self-immolation is a lie, the Orthodox burned - the Strovers, Old Believers, the faithful. Then all this was presented as self-immolation.
          6. psdf
            psdf 28 March 2013 05: 38 New
            +2
            The church also fought with whips, pharmacists, eunuchs and other sects.
            From the experience of the 90s - Do you really think that fighting sects is such an evil?
          7. bezumnyiPIT
            bezumnyiPIT 28 March 2013 09: 36 New
            +3
            what kind of animal should be in order to torture his co-religionist only because he is baptized not with three, but with two fingers?
      2. tomket
        tomket 27 March 2013 22: 44 New
        -2
        oh yes, not proven)))) Do you know why, for example, the Romans constantly wanted to destroy Carthage? because there was a cult of the sacrifices of the babies of Baal, which became Baal. it was precisely from such an infection that Christianity saved.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 06 New
          0
          Quote: tomket

          oh yes, not proven)))) Do you know why, for example, the Romans constantly wanted to destroy Carthage? because there was a cult of the sacrifices of the babies of Baal, which became Baal. it was precisely from such an infection that Christianity saved.

          We know this from the Romans themselves, that is, there is no faith in these words.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            We know this from the Romans themselves, that is, there is no faith in these words

            That is, Caligula is not authority for you, he is the whole emperor
          2. tomket
            tomket 28 March 2013 08: 25 New
            +1
            you can go to the place of ancient Carthage and look for those very bones of babies, I'm sure they still lie there
            1. tomket
              tomket 28 March 2013 19: 28 New
              +1
              In 1921, archaeologists discovered a place where several rows of urns were found with charred remains of both animals (they were sacrificed instead of people) and young children. The place was named Tofet. The burial places were under the stelae on which the requests accompanying the sacrifice were recorded. It is estimated that in this place are the remains of more than 20 000 children who were sacrificed for only 200 years.
              1. tomket
                tomket 28 March 2013 19: 31 New
                +1
                The Bible Guide states that archaeologists found in Megiddo the ruins of a temple dedicated to the goddess Astarte, Baal’s wife: “Only a few steps from this place was a cemetery where the remains of sacrificed children were found in jugs ... The priests of Baal and Astarte were official killers of little children. " “Another terrible custom was called“ sacrifice upon the foundations. ” When the construction of the new house was completed, a baby was sacrificed to Baal, whose body was later walled up in the wall ... "
          3. tomket
            tomket 28 March 2013 19: 25 New
            0
            In 1921, archaeologists discovered a place where several rows of urns were found with charred remains of both animals (they were sacrificed instead of people) and young children. The place was named Tofet. The burial places were under the stelae on which the requests accompanying the sacrifice were recorded. It is estimated that in this place are the remains of more than 20 000 children who were sacrificed for only 200 years.
          4. tomket
            tomket 28 March 2013 19: 26 New
            0
            In 1921, archaeologists discovered a place where several rows of urns were found with charred remains of both animals (they were sacrificed instead of people) and young children. The place was named Tofet. The burial places were under the stelae on which the requests accompanying the sacrifice were recorded. It is estimated that in this place are the remains of more than 20 000 children who were sacrificed for only 200 years.
          5. tomket
            tomket 28 March 2013 19: 26 New
            0
            In 1921, archaeologists discovered a place where several rows of urns were found with charred remains of both animals (they were sacrificed instead of people) and young children. The place was named Tofet. The burial places were under the stelae on which the requests accompanying the sacrifice were recorded. It is estimated that in this place are the remains of more than 20 000 children who were sacrificed for only 200 years.
          6. tomket
            tomket 28 March 2013 19: 28 New
            0
            In 1921, archaeologists discovered a place where several rows of urns were found with charred remains of both animals (they were sacrificed instead of people) and young children. The place was named Tofet. The burial places were under the stelae on which the requests accompanying the sacrifice were recorded. It is estimated that in this place are the remains of more than 20 000 children who were sacrificed for only 200 years.
        2. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: tomket
          oh yes, not proven)))) Do you know why, for example, the Romans constantly wanted to destroy Carthage? because there was a cult of the sacrifices of the babies of Baal, which became Baal. it was precisely from such an infection that Christianity saved.

          But Iraq knows why it was bombed, there could be “chemical weapons”, and Syria, etc. the main thing is to find a compelling reason and then hold on to Carthage
        3. bezumnyiPIT
          bezumnyiPIT 28 March 2013 09: 39 New
          +3
          And worshiped a god who demanded that Abraham sacrifice his son (Abraham)?
    3. Anti
      Anti 27 March 2013 23: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: Defender
      normal Christianity: Servant of God = Servant of the king.

      1. Aleks28
        Aleks28 27 March 2013 23: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Anti
        Anti

        So you yourself answered your own question: "It is not God who makes people slaves, but people, trying to hide behind the name of God." good +
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Allex28
          So you yourself answered your own question: "It’s not God who makes people slaves, but ludi, trying to hide behind the name of God"

          God is Faith
          People is a church.
          It is not Faith that makes people slaves, but the church, hiding behind Faith.
      2. YuDDP
        YuDDP 28 March 2013 01: 14 New
        +2
        Super! A movie title as an argument. A screenwriter for films is creative.
    4. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 03: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Defender
      Sergius of Radonezh with his students. Spirit creates forms for itself.

      According to his teachings, as in ancient times, the institution of self-discipline was preserved, those moral stages of human spiritual growth that the Westerners so diligently destroyed. As before, many vices and weaknesses were condemned by a special popular assembly. As in the Aryan era, the use of alcohol was forbidden, any violence and acts degrading human dignity were considered a sin. But high moral qualities were encouraged and strongly supported in man. First of all, love for the Native land and their people, love for the national Russian culture, selfless love for relatives and friends. Self-sacrifice was highly appreciated in the teachings of Sergius of Radonezh, in order to achieve a high goal. Honesty, truthfulness, constancy, integrity and courage were encouraged in every way.

      In the teachings of the Russian spiritual ascetic, polygamous relations in families were not prohibited, as in the West. Sergius of Radonezh generally tried not to touch family relationships. And when Sergius was asked why he did not advocate monogamy, he replied that all the Old Testament families were polygamous, but this did not stop either Father Abraham, Isaac, or other Jewish patriarchs from becoming saints. The main thing is that mutual love reigned in the family, and there was no place for possessiveness. The adoption by Sergius of Radonezh, in contrast to Byzantine and Roman Christianity, the Aryan family institute, attracted many people who are conservatively inclined towards the new religion to him and his life-affirming teaching. It so happened that around the church of St. Sergius of Radonezh, spiritually scattered Russia began to unite. Now both the Vedic Russians and Christians found a common language. By and large, they had nothing to argue about, much less kill each other. Now both of them looked at the West as a breeding ground for evil and discord, at the kingdom of demons, who, in order to conquer the Aryan-Rus world, perverted the true teaching of Christ and opposed it to the Vedic.
  2. vjhbc
    vjhbc 27 March 2013 16: 33 New
    0
    the church as before and now was the conductor of secular power, so the people didn’t give a damn about the church, and now listen to what people say about priests not about their holiness, but about how often they change the cars of their mistresses, which they built their own houses, and in our hearts we are still pagans and we have a holiday Ivan bathed celebrate more readily and joyfully than Christmas and Easter
    1. Defender
      Defender 27 March 2013 18: 54 New
      +1
      I feel sorry for you, but do not identify yourself with everyone.
  3. Su24
    Su24 27 March 2013 20: 36 New
    -1
    Russian believers delivered. And about your "gods" - they themselves were slaves of fate, and were not gods at all.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Su24
      Russian believers delivered. And about your "gods" - they themselves were slaves of fate, and were not gods at all.

      he understood what he said
  • bezumnyiPIT
    bezumnyiPIT 28 March 2013 09: 20 New
    0
    Not atheists, but people free from religious shackles. People for whom ethical and moral norms were in the first place, and not the opinion of the "Holy Fathers"
    clad in kilogram golden crosses
  • Defender
    Defender 27 March 2013 15: 34 New
    0
    Who told you this? Soviet atheists, or French liberals?
  • radio operator
    radio operator 27 March 2013 16: 27 New
    +5
    Quote: Anti
    Also, one should not forget about the baptism of Russia by fire and sword.

    Dear, Boris Abramych has already died, and you are trying to please him all.
    Soviet academician Dmitry Sergeyevich Likhachev wrote that Christianity in Russia was adopted in a natural way. The fact of burning the temples took place, but these cases were isolated.
    What do you do, do not attach importance to scientific works, and unconditionally believe unverified theories.
    1. Anti
      Anti 27 March 2013 16: 43 New
      -2
      Quote: radio operator
      What do you do, do not attach importance to scientific works, and unconditionally believe unverified theories.


      These works have a customer. Who is it?
      1. psdf
        psdf 27 March 2013 18: 55 New
        +2
        Many years ago Christianity spread on the territory of Russia. The ancestors made their choice. It was finalized in a certain way; many church holidays now have roots in paganism.
        Now there are forces that are trying to convince us that our ancestors were wrong and only they will teach us the right paganism ... Interestingly, the main ideologists and financiers promoting these ideas and their beliefs and roots are somewhat different from the main part of the population. Does this bother you?
        1. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 41 New
          0
          Quote: psdf
          Many years ago Christianity spread on the territory of Russia. The ancestors made their choice. It was finalized in a certain way; many church holidays now have roots in paganism.
          Now there are forces that are trying to convince us that our ancestors were wrong and only they will teach us the right paganism ... Interestingly, the main ideologists and financiers promoting these ideas and their beliefs and roots are somewhat different from the main part of the population. Does this bother you?

          Vedic holidays

          Modern neopagans in every possible way scolding Christians, they say, the last all their holidays have imposed on the ancient Vedic. But neither the Orthodox Byzantines did this nor the Catholic Papists. Neither one nor the other was engaged in national holidays in Russia. Western missionaries and holy fathers demanded from the newly baptized that they celebrate what was imposed on them, mostly Jewish. Like, for example, the celebration of the exodus of the Jews from Egypt, or the glorification of the circumcision of the Lord ... The Jews came up with the idea that Jesus was circumcised. But, Christians are obliged to celebrate, etc. All major Christian holidays in Russia are a legacy of the times of asceticism of St. Sergius of Radonezh. And they were not imposed on the people, but rather reserved for him. Let it be in a different form, but their essence remains the same. No matter how you argue or say it, until now in Russia the ancient Komeyattsy or Maslenitsa are celebrated colorfully, the feast of Ivan Kupala is solemnly celebrated, the Vedic Saints are alive in Russia, even Kolyada is celebrated! And this is after the third baptism, after the Nikonian troubles.

          The common holidays of the Vedic Russians and Christians do not share Vedism and the Christian religion, but rather unite them; and this association, as before, still involuntarily excludes Christianity from such a tandem. Surely, this mechanism of exclusion was laid in tandem by the still magician Sergius. After all, it becomes unclear to any sane person what, in fact, does alien Christianity do on Russian soil, if the same triumphs and glorifications, only with an even deeper cosmogonic meaning, have been preserved in the ancient faith of the Aryan ancestors?
      2. Su24
        Su24 27 March 2013 20: 40 New
        -1
        And that means historical works have their own customer, and you alone know the real truth! You, apparently, were present at the Baptism of Russia.
        1. Anti
          Anti 27 March 2013 22: 41 New
          -3
          Have you been present at the Baptism of Russia?
          1. Aleks28
            Aleks28 27 March 2013 23: 12 New
            +5
            Quote: Anti
            Have you been present at the Baptism of Russia?

            Oleg, on theological topics you don’t have to be so categorical. Naturally, like many here I was not present at the baptism of Russia, but I’ll put in my 5 kopecks. The main merit of religion is the unification and unity of the nation. I am Orthodox, my ancestors (whom I can to trace) the same were Orthodox, and I don’t need another religion. Moreover, I think a change of religion is akin to the betrayal of my ancestors. So, I don’t have to squander the “Patriarch Nikon” from myself, that is. leave religion to believers. As one smart person said: "the main proof of the existence of God is that for many centuries people have been arguing about the existence of God, if there weren’t it, then there would be nothing to argue about."
            1. Anti
              Anti 27 March 2013 23: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Allex28

              Allex28 (1) Today, 23:12 PM ↑


              Alexander, no categorical is my 5 cents.

              Quote: Allex28
              The main merit of religion is the unification and unity of the nation.


              I can’t understand then, 80% of the Orthodox in civilian rallied against each other and destroyed each other. Father of the son, brother of the brother, etc.
              1. Aleks28
                Aleks28 27 March 2013 23: 55 New
                +4
                Quote: Anti

                I can’t understand then, 80% of the Orthodox in civilian rallied against each other and destroyed each other.

                And here, just do not dissemble, you know perfectly well who fought for the Reds, and who commanded them. List names?
                1. Anti
                  Anti 28 March 2013 00: 04 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Allex28
                  Surnames to list?


                  to dissemble what is the point to me? because those whom you say “commanded” did not come from outside, but were Orthodox before, why didn’t religion unite them, but vice versa?

                  Moreover, I consider the change of religion akin to the betrayal of my ancestors.


                  Does this mean that the religion of the ancestors betrayed by moving to Orthodoxy?

                  Dear Author, I apologize for derogating from the article, although Orthodoxy in Russia also came from Europe if I am not mistaken.
                  1. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 28 March 2013 00: 21 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Anti
                    to dissemble what is the point to me? because those whom you say “commanded” did not come from outside, but were Orthodox before, why didn’t religion unite them, but vice versa?

                    You are well aware that the backbone of the Bolshevik army was made up of our “brothers” from the Baltic republics, + “workers”, or, more simply, criminals and all the riffraff from St. Petersburg and Moscow (to a lesser extent from Moscow). But the peasants and Cossacks did not go to the Bolsheviks. And why? The official Soviet ideology says because they were slaughtered and did not understand the "bright future." But when the intervention began, then the Cossacks and peasants voluntarily joined the Red Army. Why don’t you answer like that ..... Or wiser?
                  2. Anti
                    Anti 28 March 2013 00: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Allex28
                    Why don’t you answer like that ..... Or wiser?


                    EXPLAIN EVIDENTLY NOT AT ALL what DOES IT MEAN THE RELIGION HAS ceased to be opium in that moment? EXTERNAL ENEMY UNITS?
                  3. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 28 March 2013 00: 39 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Anti
                    EXPLAIN EVIDENTLY NOT AT ALL

                    About wiser they meant peasants and Cossacks.
                  4. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 28 March 2013 01: 09 New
                    0
                    Quote: Anti
                    EXTERNAL ENEMY UNITS?

                    yes +
                  5. Anti
                    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 11 New
                    0
                    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

                    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means that it is disconnecting for the internal enemy. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
            2. Aleks28
              Aleks28 28 March 2013 00: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Anti
              Dear Author, I apologize for derogating from the article, although Orthodoxy in Russia also came from Europe if I am not mistaken.

              You are mistaken, Orthodoxy came to Russia from Byzantium.
            3. Anti
              Anti 28 March 2013 00: 44 New
              -1
              all rightly got a bit confused although Byzantium was kinda used under the Greeks at that time., and they are in Europe
            4. Aleks28
              Aleks28 28 March 2013 00: 55 New
              +3
              Quote: Anti
              all rightly got a bit confused although Byzantium was kinda used under the Greeks at that time., and they are in Europe

              Byzantium under the Greeks? belay You have some kind of strange education. requestIt’s good that Byzantium didn’t stop included in the European Union.
            5. Anti
              Anti 28 March 2013 00: 58 New
              0
              something like that winked
            6. Aleks28
              Aleks28 28 March 2013 01: 18 New
              0
              Quote: Anti
              something like that

              This video is bullshit. Ask any Turk where they came from, and he will answer without hesitation that he is from Altai, and any Bulgarian knows that he is from the Volga region. Byzantium was captured from the side of present-day Russia. The truth is that the Venetian Jews are the same knife stuck in the back of Byzantium, but they had their own interest was the gold of the Byzantine court.
            7. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 30 March 2013 15: 18 New
              +1
              Alex,
              Turks and Bulgarians really consider themselves to come from the eastern steppes, there is only one “but”. Most of the Turks - it is the jury of the locals, who, having been conquered by the new nomadic Türks (Oguzes), switched to the speech of the conquerors. There were not very many Türks and they basically became ruling dynasties and surnames, and common Turks - former Greeks, Armenians, Jews, Kurds and other Byzantine mix.
              Nevertheless, the Turks clearly consider themselves the descendants of the Turkic conquerors, although even in person it is clear who they are.
              Azerbaijanis - also basically - are genetically little related to the steppes. These are local residents of the Caucasus who switched to the Turkic language under the influence of the conquerors. Of course, they have some share of Turkic blood, but in general they are autochthonous residents of the Caucasus.
              Turks are the indigenous inhabitants of Byzantium / Ottoman Empire / Turkey.
            8. alexandr00070
              alexandr00070 31 March 2013 21: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Allex28
              Ask any Turk where they came from, and he will answer without hesitation that he is from Altai, and any Bulgarian knows that he is from the Volga region. Byzantium was captured from present-day Russia



              Bulgarians (self-name), people, the main population of Bulgaria. The number in Bulgaria is 7850 thousand people. Outside Bulgaria, about 600 thousand people live, of which 234 thousand people in Ukraine, 100 thousand people in the USA, 88 thousand people in Moldova. In small groups, the Bulgarians settled in Russia, Romania, Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Hungary and others. On the territory of Ukraine, Romania and Yugoslavia (Banat), the Bulgarians emigrated mainly in the XVIII - the first third of the XIX centuries., They moved to other countries mainly from the end XIX century to the 2nd world war. They speak the Bulgarian language of the Slavic group of the Indo-European family. Cyrillic-based writing. Two groups of dialects are distinguished - eastern and western. Believers are mostly Orthodox, there are small groups of Catholics and Protestants; a significant group of Muslims.

              The main role in the ethnogenesis of the Bulgarians was played by Slavic tribes who moved to the Balkans in the VI – VII centuries. Other ethnic components are the Thracians, who lived in the east of the Balkan Peninsula from the Bronze Age, and the Turkic-speaking Proto-Bulgarians (self-name - Bulgarians), who came in the 670s. from the Black Sea steppes. Thracian features in the traditional culture of the Bulgarians can be traced to a large extent south of the Balkan Range; in the northern and western regions of Bulgaria, a layer of Slavic culture is brighter.

              The origins of Bulgarian statehood go back to the 681th century Slavic tribal associations - Slavinia by the Byzantine authors. It was further developed with the formation of a political union of the Slavs of Mysia and the Proto-Bulgarians, who brought a centralized organization. The synthesis of two social traditions laid the foundation for the Bulgarian state. The proto-Bulgarian nobility occupied a dominant position in it, therefore the ethnonym "Bulgarians" gave the name to the state. With the expansion of the borders of the First Bulgarian Kingdom (formed in 865) in the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries, new Slavic tribes and small groups of Proto-Bulgarians entered it. The addition of the Slavic Bulgarian state, the development of commodity-money relations contributed to the consolidation of the Slavic tribes and the assimilation of the Proto-Bulgarians by the Slavs. Assimilation was carried out not only because of the numerical predominance of the Slavs, but also because their economic and cultural type created a wider and more stable basis for socio-economic development in the Balkans. The adoption of Christianity in XNUMX, as well as the spread of Slavic writing at the end of the XNUMXth century, played an important role for ethnic unification. At the end of the XNUMXth — XNUMXth centuries the term "Bulgarians", meaning previously subjects of Bulgaria, acquired the meaning of an ethnonym. By this time, the process of ethnogenesis of the Bulgarians and the formation of the nationality had basically ended. During the period of the Second Bulgarian Kingdom (the end of the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries), the culture of medieval Bulgarians reached their highest peak. At the end of the XIV century, the Ottoman conquest led to a deformation of the social structure of the Bulgarians: nobility ceased to exist, the trade and craft layer in the cities decreased significantly.


              The Bulgarians were more Slavic, if you remember the history of Svyatoslav, it was in Bulgaria that he settled. After the defeat of the Khazaria, because it is a very local area, and accordingly a kindred people, it was there that he remained to rule and fight the Greeks leaving Olga on the throne in Kiev
        2. BruderV
          BruderV 28 March 2013 00: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Allex28
          Byzantium under the Greeks?

          Yeah. By the way, the last Aramaic dynasty was Armenian, so even with those who missed someone.
        3. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Allex28
          Byzantium under the Greeks? You have some kind of strange education. It is good that Byzantium was not included in the European Union.

          It is interesting that with your education, it is not in vain that it is said in the church --- Greek Christianity. by the time of the Christianization of Rus in Byzantium, the Greeks were steering, by the way, and they brought it to the crisis

          The ethnic composition of the population of the Byzantine empire, especially at the first stage of its history, was extremely motley: Greeks, Italians, Syrians, Copts, Armenians, Jews, Hellenized Asia Minor tribes, Thracians, Illyrians, Dacians, Southern Slavs. With the reduction of the territory of Byzantium (starting from the end of the VI century), part of the peoples remained outside its borders - at the same time, new peoples invaded and settled here (Goths in the IV – V centuries, Slavs in the VI – VII centuries, Arabs in the VII – IX centuries, Pechenegs, Polovtsy in the XI-XIII centuries, etc.). In the VI – XI centuries, the Byzantine population included ethnic groups, from which the Italian people subsequently formed. The predominant role in the economy, political life and culture of Byzantium in the west of the country was played by the Greek population, and in the east by the Armenian population. The official language of Byzantium in the XNUMXthth centuries is Latin, from the XNUMXth century until the end of the existence of the empire - Greek.
  • Setrac
    Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Anti
    Dear Author, I apologize for derogating from the article, although Orthodoxy in Russia also came from Europe if I am not mistaken.

    Quote: Allex28
    You are mistaken, Orthodoxy came to Russia from Byzantium.

    We do not know this, Western propaganda and the German historians who wrote the history of Russia during the Romanovs tell us this.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Anti
    to dissemble what is the point to me? because those whom you say “commanded” did not come from outside, but were Orthodox before, why didn’t religion unite them, but vice versa?

    he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one party
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 08 New
    0
    Quote: alexandr00070
    he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one party


    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means for the internal enemy it is disconnecting. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 08 New
    0
    Quote: alexandr00070
    he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one party


    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means for the internal enemy it is disconnecting. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 09 New
    0
    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means that it is disconnecting for the internal enemy. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 09 New
    0
    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means for the internal enemy it is disconnecting. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 10 New
    0
    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means for the internal enemy it is disconnecting. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 10 New
    0
    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means for the internal enemy it is disconnecting. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • Anti
    Anti 28 March 2013 23: 11 New
    0
    quote = alexandr00070] he means who made the revolution and pushed foreheads, fathers with children, brothers and brothers ............ there is one lot [/ quote]

    If this is true, then this religion is harmful to Russia. It means that it is disconnecting for the internal enemy. although those whom you suspect are also from outside.
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 48 New
    +3
    Quote: Allex28
    And here, just do not dissemble, you know perfectly well who fought for the Reds, and who commanded them. List names?

    God's chosen ?????????????? they commanded
  • bezumnyiPIT
    bezumnyiPIT 28 March 2013 09: 49 New
    0
    Yes, 16 armies of selected Jews, numbering approx. 1,5 million people laughing (For the first time, ZOG agents)
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Su24
    You, apparently, were present at the Baptism of Russia.

    but you also can’t prove what it was exactly as you say or think, it’s just that yours were trickier, it’s not tricky from God's chosen Christianity
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Anti
    Soviet academician Dmitry Sergeevich Likhachev wrote,


    Dmitry Likhachev was born into a family of Old Believers Fedoseevsky, bespopovskogo consent [4] and has always been a deeply religious person. He did not publicly discuss his religious feelings, rarely wrote, but he kept his faith firmly. In the section “On Life and Death” in his book “Russian Culture” he wrote this way: “Religion either occupies a major place in a person’s life, or he doesn’t have it at all. You can’t believe in God “incidentally”, “by the way”, recognize God as a postulate and remember Him only when asked. ”
    civil position

    He was never a member of the CPSU, refused to sign letters against prominent cultural figures of the USSR, but was not a dissident and always sought to find a compromise with the authorities. In his introduction to the book “The Word of Igor’s Regiment”, published in 1955 by the Detgiz Publishing House, as well as in the introduction and conclusion to the book “The Emergence of Russian Literature” (1952), he referred to the works of Stalin, Marx and Engels.

    slippery
  • anomalocaris
    anomalocaris 27 March 2013 18: 08 New
    +2
    Nude nude, very funny. And I really would not advise believing court scientists. Read the biography of Dobrynia, and you will understand how "natural" the baptism of Russia was.
    1. psdf
      psdf 27 March 2013 18: 48 New
      +2
      Take a look at the arch of the Saints of Vladimir Land, you will find many famous characters, starting from Ilya of Murom.
    2. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 02 New
      -1
      Once again, a roll-call list of all those tortured by the "Orthodox" terror at the baptism of Russia, prove your case, here is your moment of truth) If not, there is nothing to talk about)
      1. tan0472
        tan0472 27 March 2013 22: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: tomket
        Once again, a roll-call list of all those tortured by the "Orthodox" terror at the baptism of Russia, prove your case, here is your moment of truth) If not, there is nothing to talk about)

        An interesting way to lead a discussion is to demand that the opponent knowingly impossible. But you will be provided with the requested list. Immediately after you provide a roll-call list of pagan victims (victims of Slavic pagans). Xanthus, drink the sea ...
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 March 2013 22: 48 New
          -1
          You say about the innocent victims, so you know about these), I say that Christianity and Orthodoxy did not allow the birth of cults in Russia akin to the Carthaginian cults.
          1. tomket
            tomket 27 March 2013 23: 00 New
            +1
            Orthodoxy kept Russia from different heresies and witchcraft teachings, if in Europe in this field already in the 16 century, for example, Giordano Bruno noted, then in Russia such characters appeared only at the beginning of the 20 century, and for the most part emigrants of various kinds, for example Blavatsky. So, it can be considered a spiritual feat that Russia held on for such a long time.
          2. tan0472
            tan0472 27 March 2013 23: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: tomket
            You say about the innocent victims, so you know about these), I say that Christianity and Orthodoxy did not allow the birth of cults in Russia akin to the Carthaginian cults.

            Sorry, what are these Carthage cults? As far as I know, Jews lived in Carthage, and therefore their cults were corresponding. Did Christians Protect Gentiles from the Jews?
            1. tomket
              tomket 28 March 2013 19: 34 New
              0
              since when did the Phoenicians become Jews ????
  • alexandr00070
    alexandr00070 28 March 2013 05: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: radio operator
    Soviet academician Dmitry Sergeyevich Likhachev wrote that Christianity in Russia was adopted in a natural way. The fact of burning the temples took place, but these cases were isolated.
    What do you do, do not attach importance to scientific works, and unconditionally believe unverified theories.

    Familiar people, you are still paired with Likhachev, that is, according to you, the ritual places available in each settlement, the pagans destroyed themselves

    and about Likhachev

    On February 8, 1928, he was arrested for participating in the student group "Space Academy of Sciences", where, shortly before his arrest, he made a report on the old Russian spelling, "trampled and distorted by the enemy of the Church of Christ and the Russian people"; sentenced to 5 years for counter-revolutionary activities. Until November 1931, a political prisoner in the Solovetsky Special Purpose Camp. While serving his sentence, he published in his local newspaper the first scientific work, “Cartoons for Criminals,” devoted to the gambling of prisoners. From 1929, before being transferred to the mainland, he worked as an employee of the criminological office [1].

    In November 1931 he was transferred from the Solovetsky camp to Belbaltlag, worked as an accountant and railway dispatcher [2] on the construction of the White Sea-Baltic Canal.

    He was prematurely released in 1932 and returned to Leningrad. In 1932–33 he was the literary editor of Sotsekgiz. * Publication of the article “Features of the primitive primitivism of thieves' speech” in the collection of the Institute of Language and Thinking named after N. Ya. Marra "Language and Thinking."

    Where I sat there and wrote
    1967

    Elected Honorary Doctor of the University of Oxford (UK).
    A trip to the UK to lecture.
    1971

    Elected a foreign member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts.

    Awarded the degree of Honorary Doctor of Science at the University of Edinburgh (UK).
    Elected by a foreign member of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences.

    1976

    Participated in a special meeting of the USSR Academy of Sciences based on the book of O. Suleimenov "Az and I" (banned).
    Participated in the conference “Tarnovo School. Pupils and followers of Efimiy Tarnovsky ”(Bulgaria).
    Elected Corresponding Member of the British Academy.
    1976-1999

    Member of the Editorial Board of the international magazine "Palaeobulgarica" ​​(Sofia)
    1979

    The State Council of the People's Republic of Bulgaria awarded the honorary title of laureate of the International Prize of the Brothers Cyril and Methodius for exceptional services to the development of Old Bulgarian and Slavic studies, for the study and popularization of the case of the brothers Cyril and Methodius.
    1980

    The Secretariat of the Union of Writers of Bulgaria was awarded the honorary sign "Nikola Vaptsarov".
    A trip to Bulgaria to lecture at Sofia University.
    1981

    He was awarded the Certificate of Honor of the All-Union Volunteer Society of Book Lovers for his outstanding contribution to the study of ancient Russian culture, Russian books, and source studies.
    The State Council of the People's Republic of Bulgaria awarded the "International Prize named after Euthymius Tarnovsky."

    He was awarded the badge of honor of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.
    He participated in a conference dedicated to the 1300th anniversary of the Bulgarian state (Sofia).
    1982

    Awarded the Certificate of Honor and the prize of the magazine "Spark" for the interview "The memory of history is sacred."
    Elected Honorary Doctor of the University of Bordeaux (France).
    1983

    Elected Honorary Doctor of the University of Zurich (Switzerland).

    and the question begs who worked ????????????????
  • Su24
    Su24 27 March 2013 20: 34 New
    -1
    This is nothing more than a myth.
  • Su24
    Su24 27 March 2013 20: 34 New
    -1
    The Inquisition saved more people than executed the "innocent" sorcerers and occultists.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: Su24
      The Inquisition saved a lot more people,

      of course burning
    2. psdf
      psdf 28 March 2013 06: 03 New
      0
      I read somewhere that modern toxicology owes them a lot, as founders.
  • sesame
    sesame 27 March 2013 20: 35 New
    0
    Not the spirit of enlightenment, but the spirit.
  • Nesvet Nezar
    Nesvet Nezar 27 March 2013 08: 42 New
    11
    Europe has always been the edge of the world. The burning of the Alexandrian library is the first step in writing a new story. The discovery of America and the robbery of the American continent set a precedent - a lot of cheap money from the Catholic Church. Catholic monks zealously set about writing history. Europe is fully known and not fictitious only from the 16th century. History until this century is sheer nonsense!
    1. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 20: 41 New
      0
      Did you read this with Fomenko?
    2. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 05 New
      -1
      and what history does not suit you before the 16 century? The fact that we did not ward off the Coliseum? or the fact that Julius Caesar lived in Rome?
  • Egoza
    Egoza 27 March 2013 08: 56 New
    13
    So Europe had to create a monster in the form of "wild Russia" in order to look decent on such a black background! What monks and "historians" did with success!
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: Egoza
      So Europe had to create a monster in the form of "wild Russia" in order to look decent on such a black background! What monks and "historians" did with success!

      John IV Vasilievich (1530-1584), nicknamed Ivan the Terrible - the first king of all Russia. The nickname "Terrible" is often presented in a distorted form - terrible, translated from English "terrible" or "scary". In Russian, “Terrible” means - with a thunderstorm for the wicked and with mercy for the good, so the king should rule. Grandfather also called Grandfather John IV - Ivan III.

      Under Ivan IV the Terrible, Russia became a gigantic world power, the unification of lands, the strengthening of public administration and the army took place. For Western Europe, such a gigantic and strong country, besides that professing the Orthodox faith, was terrible, therefore it was considered advisable to form a negative image of this country. [Andrey Vassoevich]

      The West did its job perfectly, mastered the principle of psychological warfare - you cannot change the world, change the idea of ​​it. “Some win on the battlefield, others on paper” - Orbini, XNUMXth Century

      Myth

      The history of any nation, its spiritual health, faith in itself and its strength is based on certain myths. It is myths that become the living flesh and blood of the people, their assessment of their place in the universe. Myth is a weapon. Today, our consciousness has become a battleground - the black myth of Russia and the bright myth of the West.

      Myth 1. Russia is a barbaric, wild country, prone to despotism, a country that is backward, uncivilized and inherently aggressive, therefore it always poses a threat to Europe.

      Myth 2. Europe is a unique civilization that has absorbed all the wisdom of mankind. The civilization of education and humanity. Civilization, which developed the principles by which everyone should live; having the right to civilize others and, above all, wild Russia.

      For more than 500 years, the myth has prevailed over Russia as a country of stupid slaves and unheard of despotism. Russia is a wrong country, unworthy of independent development and in need of the leadership of a civilized West. In this regard, the myth of Ivan the Terrible as an unheard-of bloody tyrant is very important. From this myth, both in the West and domestic liberals derive the main thesis: “Russia as a civilization has always been different for the worse from European states. Bloody despotism and pathological cruelty are genetically inherent in the Russians. ”
      “Instead of considering Ivan the Terrible and this era as a chance of a breakthrough, a rush of Russia and Russian people to renew, we consider this time as a period of cruelty and decline. We consider in our history textbooks written by our authors ”- Dmitry Gavra, Doctor of Sociology, Professor, St. Petersburg State University
      “The Russian people have long given their assessment to Ivan the Terrible - this is the last Russian tsar who sang epic songs” - Kirill Nazarenko, candidate of historical sciences.
  • Cosmonaut
    Cosmonaut 27 March 2013 09: 04 New
    +6
    This is known.
    There used to be Catholicism and the Inquisition, now there is democracy, pseudo-human rights and NATO.
  • erased
    erased 27 March 2013 09: 21 New
    +4
    They did not wash much, not only because they were reluctant, but also because of general deforestation.
    At this time, the main work of Scaliger and Petavus, the dodgers who created the chronology on the basis of Kabbalah, falls. And according to this very chronology, we still count years and centuries.
    And "enlightened Europe" is a brand that is already ridiculous to hear. Center of civilization - yes. But the moral character of a European resembles that of today's youth - drinking, bullying, debauchery all the way.
    1. KuigoroZHIK
      KuigoroZHIK 27 March 2013 09: 46 New
      +1
      erased, you are wrong! Today's youth is still VERY far from their level!
    2. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 20: 42 New
      -2
      The center of Western civilization, to be specified.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 27 March 2013 09: 21 New
    -4
    By the sixteenth century, Christianity had gained strength and launched an attack on the world.
    The Bible is the concept of enslaving the world. Globalization according to their plan.
    Old Testament: Exodus 22: 18 Do not leave the spells of healers alive.
    And the bonfires of the Inquisition flamed throughout Europe, taking the lives of local elites (Volkhov), replacing it with "their own" ... imposed on the enslaved faith of slaves ... About the Old Testament more: http://klin.hutt.ru/viewtopic.php?id=104

    Wherever THEY feast, everywhere there is decline and ruin, that Egypt, the Khazaria, that Greece, that Italy ... We are witnessing the sunset of the Christian world.

    As for pre-Christian history, that Russia, that of Europe, according to THEIR opinion, we jumped through the trees and, of course, could not create anything good ...

    In the sixteenth century, usury was permitted ... and away we go ...
    Renaissance, industrialization ... slavery, feudalism, capitalism, communism and other isms - all for the sake of a more efficient exploitation of enslaved peoples.
    1. Oleg1986
      Oleg1986 27 March 2013 11: 35 New
      +6
      You are sick, Boris, and you are not far from the mind. Looks like he just jumped from a tree. According to the Old Testament, Christians do not live, otherwise there would be an “eye for an eye”. I went to college or something, would have learned some history. I got to the keyboard, but there’s nothing clever to say.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 27 March 2013 13: 30 New
        -2
        If so smart, you are our expert on Christian life, tell me how many books the Bible consists of. And which book was never there when?
        For your information - this is now in the West the Bible does not have the "Old Testament", but we have it.
        In front of me lies the 1992 Bible, the publication of the Holy Trinity St. Sergius Lavra ... with both the Old and the New ... incl. hang noodles to whom thread another. And the speech in the article is not about today ...
        1. Lee
          Lee 27 March 2013 19: 37 New
          0
          Quote: Boris55
          For your information - this is now in the West the Bible does not have the "Old Testament"

          With a fright?
        2. Su24
          Su24 27 March 2013 20: 57 New
          -1
          The Old Testament has always been in the Bible, ignorant.
        3. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Boris55
          In front of me lies the 1992 Bible of the Holy Trinity Sergius Lavra ... with both the Old and the New ... incl. hang noodles to whom thread another. And the speech in the article is not about today ..


          Synodal translation

          Translation of Old Testament books was resumed in 1856 during the reign of Alexander II. But it took another 20 years of struggle, in 1876, to publish the complete Bible in Russian in one volume, on the title page of which stood: "With the blessing of the Holy Synod." This text is called the “Synodal Translation”, “the Synodal Bible” and is still being reprinted with the blessing of the Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia.

          The Holy Synod, which blessed the distribution of a synodal translation of the Bible in Russia, containing two artificially connected books under one cover, actually signed a sentence to his state, which is confirmed by all further events, including the current state of Russia.

          One of the main roles in the translation of the Old Testament was played by Daniil Abramovich Hvolson and Vasily Andreevich Levison, a rabbi from Germany who converted to Orthodoxy in 1839. In 1882, a Russian translation of the Hebrew Bible was published, commissioned by the British Bible Society, W. Levison and D. Hvolson.

          One can imagine what forces were interested in giving the Old Testament the status of the Holy Book, because they managed to process the members of the Holy Synod and convince them of the need to join the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) to the New Testament. Someone was so eager for this goal that he even sacrificed two rabbis who converted from Judaism to "Orthodoxy", but only formally, but in reality they continued their Jewish work. By the way, the Jewish electronic encyclopedia speaks positively of them, and not as traitors.

          * “The Old Testament is a book completely alien to us, and should become more and more alien to us if we do not want to change our identity forever” - Eugene Dühring.
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 10 New
        -1
        Quote: Oleg1986
        You are sick, Boris, and you are not far from the mind. Looks like he just jumped from a tree. According to the Old Testament, Christians do not live, otherwise there would be an “eye for an eye”. I went to college or something, would have learned some history. I got to the keyboard, but there’s nothing clever to say.

        Old Testament - Ancient Jewish Scripture (Jewish Bible). The books of the Old Testament were written in the period from XIII to I century. BC. This is a common sacred text of Judaism and Christianity, part of the Christian Bible.

        Christians believe that the Bible has always consisted of the New and Old Testaments. In this they are helped by theologians who prove that the Old Testament is an integral part of the Holy Scripture, and both books harmoniously complement each other almost from the time of the Apostles. But this is not so. As early as the beginning of the XNUMXth century, the Old Testament was not considered a holy book in Russia.
        ROC version

        - 982 year. The Bible was translated by Cyril and Methodius;
        - 1499 year. The Gennadiev Bible appeared (the first biblical Bible containing the Old and New Testaments);
        - 1581 year. Bible of the first printer Ivan Fedorov (Ostrog Bible);
        - 1663 year. Moscow edition of the Russian Bible (is a somewhat revised text of the Ostrog Bible);
        - 1751 year. Elizabethan Bible
        - 1876 year. The synodal translation distributed by the Russian Orthodox Church today.

        The Russian "Orthodox" church adheres to this scheme in order to show the logical sequence of the appearance of the Bible in the modern Russian language. It seems that it turns out that the “Orthodox” Russian people had a natural need for a complete Bible, and there was no external influence, external forces that sought to introduce Old Testament books into Russian “Orthodox” society as sacred.
    2. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 20: 50 New
      0
      Above, we have already seen the opinion of several freaks, but in order to stay that way ... It seems that you deserve today's award for the schiz.
    3. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 07 New
      0
      So the ancient Greeks did not do the same thing ???
  • carbofo
    carbofo 27 March 2013 09: 30 New
    +3
    Cultural Europe in all its glory :),
    As they were, they remained.
  • Kotleopold
    Kotleopold 27 March 2013 09: 30 New
    +5
    And these people teach us to poke our nose properly ... laughing
    1. Prohor
      Prohor 27 March 2013 20: 23 New
      +3
      I have not been to European forests, but I go to work through the forest of the city of Kotovsk, Tambov Region.
      And I, brothers, am ashamed! I am ashamed to live in the same country with those who litters this forest with garbage! I am ashamed to walk along the riverbank littered with garbage and bottles.
      Will they believe me when I begin to tell them about love for the Motherland?
  • cyberandr
    cyberandr 27 March 2013 10: 24 New
    +4
    Decameron ”Boccaccio became more important than the Bible. Marital fidelity was ridiculed. The wealthy rich sought novelty in perversions.

    I think the author did not read the Decameron. This is largely a political satire (moreover, caustic), interspersed with jokes (the same is not without hairpins addressed to the same clergy) on their morals of those years.
  • Predator-74
    Predator-74 27 March 2013 11: 55 New
    +2
    After this article, I would like to raise the issue of the Iron Curtain from the West.
  • OneMoreDay
    OneMoreDay 27 March 2013 12: 39 New
    +1
    The message at the beginning of the article about Ivan IV and the text of this part of the article itself does not fit very well. Nevertheless, the reign of Grozny from the second half of the 16th century, and here from the beginning of 15 and even earlier (John Wycliffe, heresy of the Albigensians). Probably in the sequel will be closer years and events (enclosures, Stuart, Bartholomew’s Night)

    And according to "Midwives and healers, just beautiful women, etc., got into them." - As I understand it, there is no evidence, there is only an opinion, including the satirist Zadornov ...
  • FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 27 March 2013 12: 52 New
    +7
    I read that our soldiers who came to Europe for Napoleon were very surprised at the poverty in which their people lived, even the officers grinned: "And they are still going to educate us."
    And the same French religiously slaughtered much more of their fellow citizens than Ivan the Terrible.
    1. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 10 New
      0
      The French just give a reason to cut each other
    2. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Фкенщь13
      I read that our soldiers who came to Europe for Napoleon were very surprised at the poverty in which their people lived, even the officers grinned: "And they are still going to educate us."

      “They don’t know a lot of clothes and bandages that fetter the movement with which they swaddle and bind children in France. They not only harm muscle development, but are also the main reason that a large number of freaks are found in other European countries, while they are rare in Russia. It is for this reason that people there are less prone to ailments. Physical education, which I observed in Siberia, is practiced throughout Russia ”- Claude Chappe (1763-1805) - French mechanic, inventor

      “In Russia, in general, people are healthy and durable. He rarely gets sick, and if you have to get to bed, then among ordinary people, the best medicines, even in case of fever with fever, are vodka and garlic ”- Adam Olearii (1599-1671) - German scientist and traveler

      “The Russians throughout their country have only three doctors, they treat all illnesses and resort to them all, both sick and healthy: the first doctor is a Russian bathhouse, the second is vodka, which is drunk by almost everyone who can afford it and the third is garlic, which the Russians use not only as a seasoning for all foods, but also eat raw in the middle of the day ”- Just Jul - Danish Ambassador to Russia in 1709-1712.

      “The Brandenburg envoy spoke of a way to treat them for fever. The bailiff, who was at the embassy, ​​fell ill with this disease, and the healer overlaid his head, arteries, chest and sides with such large ice floes that all the body heat was not enough to melt them; however, on the third day, the bailiff got up, as if nothing had happened. That's what it means to wedge a wedge ”- Adolf Lisek - Austrian diplomat (XNUMXth century)

      “The Russians are the cleanest people, because they wash themselves in a steam bath every week” - F. Wellesley (1844-1931) - English military attache under Alexander II in 1871-1876.

      “I happened to see how Russians use their baths. That day there was a severe frost, but they nevertheless ran out of the bathhouse into the yard completely naked, red like boiled crayfish, and directly jumped into the river flowing near the bathhouse, ran back into the bathhouse, then again went out into the frost and wind and, before getting dressed, they played and ran naked for a long time ”- Just Jul - Danish Ambassador to Russia in 1709-1712.
  • Black
    Black 27 March 2013 12: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Predator-74
    After this article, I would like to raise the issue of the Iron Curtain from the West.

    It is not necessary to isolate oneself from anyone. No need to create idols and cults.
    But arrogant self-aggrandizement is no less dangerous and destructive.
    Let me remind you that universities in Europe arose at the end 11 in., and in England 13 in. the king had no right to impose new taxes and pass new laws without the consent of parliament. So do not think that Europe is just a stench and a stench.
    1. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 20: 59 New
      +1
      This is the problem of the English king, who could not cope with his aristocracy, and not an achievement.
  • Horde
    Horde 27 March 2013 13: 03 New
    +4
    the medieval map given by Alexander Samsonov is not correct. This map is the REPRESENTATION of modern scholars of 19-20 centuries about what they would like to see the political map of Europe of that time.
    -In fact, there are no medieval maps depicting Lithuania (there are later compilations from 17-18 centuries)
    no maps depicting the Crimean Khanate
    - no cards with the image of the Teutonic Order
    -France until the 18th century was Gaul
    - NO maps depicting the Ottoman Empire until the 19th century, these lands were called NATO.
    So the history of 12-14 centuries is most likely a story in the imagination of modern historians.
    1. Lee
      Lee 27 March 2013 20: 20 New
      +1
      Very funny. Full of maps of the 16th century with Lithuania, Crimea.
      Yes, and there were no political cards, basically. Gaul and Anatolia are geographical names, as are Sarmatia, Scythia, etc. Italy on the maps does not mean the state (appeared in the 19th century), but the Apennine peninsula. So is Germany. Therefore, you will not find the Teutonic Order on the map, but you will find Prussia if the map is sufficiently detailed.
      1. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 21: 18 New
        -2
        Very funny. Full of maps of the 16th century with Lithuania, Crimea.


        Well, why so immediately and laugh? Would you be so kind as to show a map with medieval Lithuania and the Crimean Khanate?
        Gaul and Anatolia are geographical names, as well as Sarmatia, Scythia


        this with regard to NATO is seen on the map that NATO is on a par with POLAND, GERMANY and TARTARIA. I hope Poland and Germany do not consider the name of the area? The same applies to Gaul and look for it.
        1. Lee
          Lee 27 March 2013 22: 29 New
          0
          I think for this time and these cards.
          1737, there is no state of Germany, there is the Holy Roman Empire, there is no kingdom of Poland, but there is the Commonwealth, there are no states of Arabia, Yakutia, Chukchi, etc. The only exception (I saw maybe there is still, the quality is not so hot) - GOSU: MOGOLSKY, i.e. Mughal state.
          The map is never medieval, but inaccuracies above the roof. Actually, medieval maps, similar to modern ones and were not, were either VERY sketchy, such as portulans, or "ideal" - a circle divided into four parts, Jerusalem (Rome, Mecca, etc.) in the center of the world and the side of the world from it .
          1. Horde
            Horde 27 March 2013 22: 39 New
            -3
            Quote: LEE
            737, there is no state of Germany, there is the Holy Roman Empire, there is no kingdom of Poland, but there is the Commonwealth, there are no states of Arabia, Yakutia, Chukchi, etc. The only exception (I saw maybe there is still, the quality is not so hot) - GOSU: MOGOLSKY, i.e. Mughal state.


            sure? Well, maybe post the CORRECT CARD?
            1. Lee
              Lee 27 March 2013 23: 21 New
              +1
              In the sense of the right one? I write yours. 1737, it seems, even according to HX is not considered a fake))
              Quote: Horde
              Well, why so immediately and laugh? Would you be so kind as to show a map with medieval Lithuania and the Crimean Khanate?

              I already wrote above that there were no medieval maps, in the modern sense. The 16th century will go, especially for you, in general, the 18th.

              There is also Crimea (the lands of the Crimean Khanate, the peninsula from ancient times was called Taurida, Taurus, etc.), and Lithuania.
              1. Horde
                Horde 27 March 2013 23: 47 New
                -4
                There is also Crimea (the lands of the Crimean Khanate, the peninsula from ancient times was called Taurida, Taurus, etc.), and Lithuania


                and where is the Crimea-Crimea? losing sight laughing
                Lithuania is, but again, as a GEOGRAPHIC object, not a POLITICAL
                there are no borders on your map. I will explain, in the whole heap of old documents A HUGE amount of Fakes. The remodelers date the ancient dates with postscripts of TOPONIMES that did not exist at that time. If the card without borders contains a name, then doubts can just sneak in.
                1. Lee
                  Lee 27 March 2013 23: 57 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Horde
                  and where is the Crimea-Crimea? losing sight

                  It is necessary to treat. Or do you think that Crimea is not Crimea, written in Latin letters? Or maybe Astracan is not Astrakhan, Cazane is not Kazan?
                  Quote: Horde
                  Lithuania is, but again, as a GEOGRAPHIC object, not a POLITICAL

                  Show me the political map of the 16-17th centuries. with state borders, and, even better, with all the vassalities, personal unions, etc.!
                  1. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 00: 34 New
                    -1
                    It is necessary to treat. Or do you think that Crimea is not Crimea, written in Latin letters?


                    CRIMEA is UNKNOWN that Crimea is a peninsula in the Black Sea, but what do you show ??? Where can you find the Crimean Khanate -DEMAGOGY breed.

                    there are borders everywhere

                    1. Lee
                      Lee 28 March 2013 01: 20 New
                      -1
                      Map 18-19 is clearly, "borders" are drawn on top, possibly by hand.
                      Quote: Horde
                      CRIMEA is UNKNOWN that Crimea is a peninsula in the Black Sea, but what do you show ??? Where can you find the Crimean Khanate -DEMAGOGY breed.

                      Maybe stop trolling?
                      1. Horde
                        Horde 28 March 2013 01: 30 New
                        -1
                        Maybe stop trolling?


                        did you find the Crimean Khanate? find talk.
        2. BruderV
          BruderV 27 March 2013 23: 05 New
          +1
          Aw, that's charlotanism! On your map, dear, something Norpegia is written. And all this is copied from which map is an illiterate Tajik
          http://kartolog.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2.Obzor_.jpg
          Still, Norway, dear. How will you make excuses? Did you draw it yourself? And why is there Polsha, and not Poland?
          1. Horde
            Horde 27 March 2013 23: 25 New
            -1
            Aw, that's charlotanism!


            ay-ay-ay quackery by the way laughing yes to hell with this card, you can bring hundreds of others; most Russian-imperial maps of the Middle Ages the question was destroyed about NATO, and so look at your card there, since there is NATO
            http://sfw.so/uploads/posts/2010-04/1270555956_1-1.jpg
            1. Lee
              Lee 27 March 2013 23: 50 New
              -2
              And what did you cling to this Natolia? Do you want to surprise? She is now on any map! Anatolia - the name of Asia Minor from antiquity, Anatolia - the Asian possessions of Turkey, Antalya - distorted Anatolia - the Turkish province in the territory of Asia Minor.
              1. Horde
                Horde 28 March 2013 00: 54 New
                -2
                And what did you cling to this Natolia? Do you want to surprise? She is now on any map! Anatolia


                not ANATOLY, but NATO, which is not clear then along with Russia, Poland, Germany and other European countries there is no Turkey, Otomania, this is a big question.
            2. BruderV
              BruderV 28 March 2013 00: 00 New
              +1
              Quote: Horde
              was about NATO, so look at your map there, since NATO is

              Quote: Horde
              Well, what about NATO, because it’s not a joke, where did the MOST POWERFUL state of the Middle Ages the Ottoman Porta exist in all literature of near-scientific artistic content, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to find on the maps. PARADOX!

              So the fact of the matter is that it was stupidly impossible to write on the whole map from Algeria to Persia and from the Balkans to Egypt the Ottoman Empire. Then there would be an incident that the Ottoman Empire called the Mediterranean Sea
              Here is a map of 1719. In the name of the map, the Ottoman Empire is written directly in black in French, while Anatolia is in place as a geographical area.
              http://4put.ru/pictures/max/6/19417.jpg
              1. BruderV
                BruderV 28 March 2013 00: 10 New
                +1
                Here is another map of 1719 here clearly written Turkish Europe and Turkish Asia, and again on the site of Natalia
                http://4put.ru/pictures/max/6/19398.jpg
              2. Horde
                Horde 28 March 2013 01: 06 New
                -4
                a fact of the matter is that it was stupidly impossible to write on the whole map from Algeria to Persia and from the Balkans to Egypt the Ottoman Empire.


                Great Tartaria was seen, so it’s more. Ports will write and nothing.

                Here is a map of 1719. In the name of the map, the Ottoman Empire is written directly in black in French, while Anatolia is in place as a geographical area.


                The whole thing dates I wrote from the beginning that Turkey is a PRODUCT from the late 19th century.
                -Please, please refer to the DATE of the card.
                -Also there is a strangeness in the map, the European part is highlighted in a different color, as if more than one state, the borders are highlighted in red in Africa and Italy, is that also Otomania?
          2. Lee
            Lee 27 March 2013 23: 41 New
            0
            For the beginning of the 18th century, both Polsha and Volna are normal.
          3. Horde
            Horde 27 March 2013 23: 59 New
            -2
            http://kartolog.ru/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2.Obzor_.jpg

            hide this Bruder5 map away, it’s an ENEMY map, it’s late 19th century, most likely, and most importantly, RUSSIAN BORDERS pass north of AMUR, and SAKHALIN IS NOT OUR. East spoke in the sense that Vladivostok stands on the lands of China and referred to some kind of card documents. So this Fake was made specifically as an element of the INFORMATION WAR to substantiate claims to Russia.
            1. BruderV
              BruderV 28 March 2013 00: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Horde
              she is late 19th century most likely

              Yes, that is right
              Quote: Horde
              Vladivostok stands on the lands of China and referred to some kind of card documents

              So the Ussuri Territory was annexed to Russia in 1858, but this map is earlier. Let him refer. It may still be referred to that at the beginning of our era the Huns passed through the territory of modern Russia, so everything must be returned to them?
              1. Horde
                Horde 28 March 2013 00: 43 New
                -3
                So the Ussuri Territory was annexed to Russia in 1858, but this map is earlier.


                Ussuri region before whom belonged to? Is it really China?
                1. BruderV
                  BruderV 28 March 2013 00: 55 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Horde
                  Ussuri region before whom belonged to? Is it really China?

                  Let there be Manchus, although their dynasty then rules.
                  1. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 01: 26 New
                    -4
                    Let there be Manchus, although their dynasty then rules.


                    again there were NO MANCHURES wrong, there was a Chinese Tartaria-Cossack Russian state.
                    1. BruderV
                      BruderV 28 March 2013 02: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Horde
                      there were NO MANCHURES, there was a Chinese Tartaria-Cossack Russian state

                      no no no, here it goes on without me.
                      1. alexandr00070
                        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 41 New
                        0
                        Quote: BruderV

                        Quote: Horde
                        there were NO MANCHURES, there was a Chinese Tartaria-Cossack Russian state
                        no no no, here it goes on without me.

                        there are cards and many
              2. Setrac
                Setrac 28 March 2013 00: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: BruderV
                So the Ussuri Territory was annexed to Russia in 1858, but this map is earlier. Let him refer. It may still be referred to that at the beginning of our era the Huns passed through the territory of modern Russia, so everything must be returned to them?

                The fact that Ussuriysk was annexed to Russia in 1858 does not mean that before that it belonged to China or Japan. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that at the beginning of the 20th century Manchuria was not yet Chinese, and if it had not been for the revolution, then Manchuria would have remained with Russia.
                1. Horde
                  Horde 28 March 2013 01: 20 New
                  -3
                  The fact that Ussuriysk was annexed to Russia in 1858 does not mean that before that it belonged to China or Japan. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that at the beginning of the 20th century Manchuria was not yet Chinese, and if it had not been for the revolution, then Manchuria would have remained with Russia.


                  1806 map of Great Tartary is no longer after the Pugachev war, but there is still Chinese Tartary, then it will be called LUKAVO MANCHURIA.
      2. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 21: 59 New
        -2
        map of the end of the 18th century because Tartaria is no longer i.e. the time of Catherine
        quite close to our time, but GALLIA is present,
        what anachronism? and notice again, and SPAIN AND
        PORTUGAL AND ENGLAND in the same letters
        that perhaps again is not a PARTY, but a COUNTRY all the same.


        hard to see? let's give a better link
        http://old-maps.vladcity.com/maps/old-maps-34.jpg
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 March 2013 22: 26 New
          +1
          and if you open some Japanese school card 1937 of the year, you will be surprised at what territory the Yamato spirit occupies, by the way, there is our Far East under the rising sun. Does this card bother you? Or do you rush to convince others that the falsification of history occurred in 1945 year ????
          1. Horde
            Horde 27 March 2013 23: 18 New
            -4
            and if you open some sort of Japanese school map 1937


            you yourself have chosen a depiction of DEATHLESSNESS as a demon from the gloom, when you meet you involuntarily remember PESYEGOLOVTSEV and then all questions disappear by themselves angry
            1. tomket
              tomket 28 March 2013 19: 38 New
              0
              sand-headed avatar by the way with you, I have a smiling cat)
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 28 March 2013 23: 52 New
              +1
              Quote: Horde
              you yourself have chosen a depiction of DEATHLESSNESS as a demon from the gloom, when you meet you involuntarily remember PESYEGOLOVTSEV and then all questions disappear by themselves

              These same PIE HEADERS pop up several times in history:
              1. Dog-headed warriors of the god Anubis in Egypt (I note that ancient Egypt and modern Egypt are completely different states, even territorially)
              2. In China, Marco Polo and Marc Orbini (perhaps the same person) mention dog heads.
              3. Ostrichniks of Ivan the Terrible, who really attached a dog's head to the saddle and could well be called dog-heads.
              Interesting conclusions flow from here, but I will keep my conclusions to myself, I am interested in your conclusions.
            3. Setrac
              Setrac 29 March 2013 00: 02 New
              0
              Quote: Horde
              you yourself have chosen a depiction of DEATHLESSNESS as a demon from the gloom, when you meet you involuntarily remember PESYEGOLOVTSEV and then all questions disappear by themselves

              These same PIE HEADERS pop up several times in history:
              1. Dog-headed warriors of the god Anubis in Egypt (I note that ancient Egypt and modern Egypt are completely different states, even territorially)
              2. In China, Marco Polo and Marc Orbini (perhaps the same person) mention dog heads.
              3. Ostrichniks of Ivan the Terrible, who really attached a dog's head to the saddle and could well be called dog-heads.
              Interesting conclusions flow from here, but I will keep my conclusions to myself, I am interested in your conclusions.
              1. tomket
                tomket 29 March 2013 08: 48 New
                +1
                Tsar’s tributaries from the north, most likely the Nenets, were called the head of the dogs under Tsar Alexei Tishaysh. There are interesting notes when these same Nenets came to Patriarch Nikon and he asks them about whether they really eat dogs and corpses? having received an affirmative answer, he jokingly invited them to eat one clerk, to which they told him, "lord, do not execute the criminals, but rather send them to us. Here are such sand-headed northerners.
              2. tomket
                tomket 29 March 2013 08: 52 New
                0
                Tsar’s tributaries from the north, most likely the Nenets, were called the head of the dogs under Tsar Alexei Tishaysh. There are interesting notes when these same Nenets came to Patriarch Nikon and he asks them about whether they really eat dogs and corpses? having received an affirmative answer, he jokingly invited them to eat one clerk, to which they told him, "lord, do not execute the criminals, but rather send them to us. Here are such sand-headed northerners.
          2. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 46 New
            0
            Quote: tomket
            and if you open some Japanese school card 1937 of the year, you will be surprised at what territory the Yamato spirit occupies, by the way, there is our Far East under the rising sun. Does this card bother you? Or do you rush to convince others that the falsification of history occurred in 1945 year ????

            and decrypt such a card weakly
        2. Lee
          Lee 27 March 2013 23: 30 New
          +1
          A country, even today, does not always correspond to the state.
          Portugal I did not find there, maybe it is there, but the large inscription Spain clearly means not the state, but the Iberian Peninsula. I repeat Italy, as a state, appeared in the 19th century, on the map this geographical concept.
        3. seafarer
          seafarer 29 March 2013 17: 54 New
          0
          In 1996, I still used the British Admiralty card. Map of the Black Sea. It was mapped and printed during the Crimean War: 1855 or 1856 - I don’t remember exactly. Then - only corrections and additions.
          So - on this map such names as "Muscovy", "Cossack", "Tataria" were indicated.
          And it’s funny and sad. Or the Britons are so stupid that hardly. Or snobs - they didn’t want to use other people's cards (and I would like to believe in it). Either finished bastards (which is most likely) - and neither the Russian Empire nor the USSR have ever been revered for power.
          1. alexandr00070
            alexandr00070 29 March 2013 22: 49 New
            0
            Quote: seafarer
            So - on this map such names as "Muscovy", "Cossack", "Tataria" were indicated.


            here is an interesting map, on it is SIBERIENE RUSIK, MOSCOWIEN IMPERIUM, MOGOLI IMPERIUM, TARTARIA MONGALIA (by the way it translates as great -mogol-great) By the way Poland -Polonia
      3. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 22: 19 New
        -3
        Quote: LEE
        Therefore, you will not find the Teutonic Order on the map, but you will find Prussia,


        we are talking about the times when Prussia was not yet the German kingdom 13-14th century
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 March 2013 22: 27 New
          0
          By the way, when were there common standards in geography and topology ????
    2. BruderV
      BruderV 27 March 2013 20: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Horde
      NO maps depicting the Ottoman Empire until the 19th century, these lands were called NATO

      All right. Now, if you look at the physical maps of the 20th century there, too, we will not find any Russia, the USA, or China. There is Europe, Asia is, Africa is, But there is no China and Russia. So gentlemen, your whole world is invented by the Jewelers, who, at birth, chip your brain and project a distorted picture of the universe there, forcing them to work for themselves on pennies.
      1. BruderV
        BruderV 27 March 2013 20: 57 New
        0
        That's where Russia is here ???
      2. BruderV
        BruderV 27 March 2013 21: 20 New
        0
        That's where Russia is here ???
      3. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 22: 10 New
        -2
        I gave the above confirmation of my words see maps
        1. BruderV
          BruderV 27 March 2013 22: 40 New
          +1
          Here is a map of where Lithuania is. So for the general development, the Lithuanians are still divided into auxaitas - those who are closer to the sea and емemaitas. There was no such country as Lithuania in the Middle Ages. There were possessions of the Grand Duke of Zemaiti, Lithuanian and Russian. Maps then were drawn up not to reflect the political structure of the world in which rulers could change every month, but for scientific purposes like modern physical maps. Let us lay out a map where the earth rests on three whales and we will seriously discuss here whether these three whales or not.
          link
          http://sfw.so/uploads/posts/2010-04/1270555956_1-1.jpg
          1. Horde
            Horde 27 March 2013 23: 02 New
            -4
            Quote: BruderV
            Here is a map of where Lithuania is.


            your card is not too correct I have such a claim
            - there are no borders on the map, so the map is probably not political,
            but geographic i.e. with the names of LOCALITIES.
            -such formations as BOSNIA, SLOVENIA appeared on
            maps already 20 centuries after the collapse of the Turkish Empire.
            -RUSSIA do not you think out of place?
            why am I there is a huge number of Counterfeit
            one must be able to isolate the truth from lies.
            for example, here is a map with a claim to the late Middle Ages
            there are toponyms and MOSCOW AND KIPCHAKI, but only here
            the ZERO MERIDIAN joke passes through Greenwich,
            and this is only 1884 forgery, however.
            1. BruderV
              BruderV 27 March 2013 23: 23 New
              +2
              Here is a map with a claim to the late Middle Ages

              With such precise coastal boundaries and a meridional grid, even first graders will realize that the map was drawn no earlier than the end of the 19th century. So then there are not even any complaints.
              1. Horde
                Horde 27 March 2013 23: 33 New
                -3
                Quote: BruderV
                So then there are not even any complaints.


                Well, what about NATO, because it’s not a joke, where did the MOST POWERFUL state of the Middle Ages the Ottoman Porta exist in all literature of near-scientific artistic content, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to find on the maps. PARADOX!
                1. Lee
                  Lee 28 March 2013 00: 06 New
                  0
                  Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?
                  1. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 04 New
                    -2
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
                  2. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 04 New
                    0
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
                  3. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 04 New
                    0
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
                  4. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 04 New
                    0
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
                  5. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 05 New
                    0
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
                  6. Horde
                    Horde 28 March 2013 16: 05 New
                    0
                    Yes, finally, find any MODERN non-political map of the world, and find there Anatolia (or Asia Minor) and calm down! Even your map says Anatolia (Asia Minor). You will not argue that Asia Minor is a state? Or will you?


                    you don’t seem to want to understand what I’m talking about. Old maps, say Mercator 1589, DO NOT MATCH the description of historians about this period on the map, we see Gaul and Germany and England, there is Muscovy and even to hell with Lithuania (a strange formation, but it’s nowhere hide, there are two hundred years on the cards).
                    But the Ottoman Empire is presented in a STRANGE look. There is NO Ottoman Empire on this map, but there is Trakia, Moldova, Bulgaria, there are maps where Istanbul is located in the country? called Romania. We don’t know anything about this, what kind of historical riddles? Moreover, the Mercator map is correct, there are borders of states, there are names of states, which allows you to bind states to this locality.
                    But again, the Ottoman Empire, if you look at the color of the territory, then Otomania goes through the Caucasus to the Caspian Sea, but we don’t know anything about it. Only from the RECONSTRUCTION OF FIN it is possible to understand what all the same happened to the world at that time. Rus from the Volga besieged and captured Constantinople in 1453.
    3. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 21: 01 New
      -1
      Well, and you, I think, share the second place by schiz, along with a friend who referred to Fomenko.
      1. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 21: 30 New
        -2
        Well, and you, I think, share the second place by schiz, along with a friend who referred to Fomenko.


        I think you have a friend with the image of Putin with a gun, the model of the gun with a surprise - shoots himself when you say a schiza, look do not shoot yourself laughing
  • Anti
    Anti 27 March 2013 13: 22 New
    -1
    The only negative thing about Europe is that there the same people as in Russia simply fell under the influence of Sash, and not Russia at the time. The process would have to be reversed, not branded.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 27 March 2013 20: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Anti
      The only negative thing about Europe is that there the same people as in Russia simply fell under the influence of Sash, and not Russia at the time. The process would have to be reversed, not branded.

      You are wrong, we do not rob other countries at the expense of various advantages obtained by military means, this is done by the USA and Western Europe, so there is no need to equate us, normal people with all kinds of scum.
    2. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 21: 05 New
      +1
      From your speech it follows that people in Russia fell under the influence ... of Russia, however!) What is the point?
      1. Anti
        Anti 28 March 2013 00: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Su24
        Su24 Yesterday, 21:05 p.m. ↑


        No, you didn’t understand, or maybe I didn’t accurately express the thought. I’m talking about the massive expansion of Russia into Europe-cultural, financial, etc.
  • Prometey
    Prometey 27 March 2013 14: 01 New
    -1
    I agree about the Renaissance - the cultural revolution in Europe, turning the morals and worldview, and giving rise to a bunch of historical myths, including about the Roman Empire.
    Trolls piled on laughing
  • RPD
    RPD 27 March 2013 14: 05 New
    +3
    only enlighteners can shit in temples, which they have been proving since 1812, for a hundred years and even two hundred nichrome
  • Slevinst
    Slevinst 27 March 2013 14: 13 New
    +4
    this article is to why Russian women are considered very beautiful, they (our) ancestors simply were not burned at the stake for beauty
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Slevinst

      this article is to why Russian women are considered very beautiful, they (our) ancestors simply were not burned at the stake for beauty
  • RPD
    RPD 27 March 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    "went on the attack on the world." jamsut not winy
  • Pacifist
    Pacifist 27 March 2013 14: 18 New
    +2
    A small quote from another interesting book, in continuation of the theme of morals of churchmen.
    "So ... Pope Innocent I (401-417) was comforted by young girls, and Pope Sixtus III (432-440) delighted the flesh with exclusively mature nuns.

    Pope John XII (955–963) turned Peter's Church into a nativity scene, and this lasted until the husband of one of the wives, the papalized dishonored ones, did not inflict the pontiff's burden. He stabbed the pope right on his wife!

    Pope Honorius II, before becoming impotent, had countless ties with women, men, and even livestock. Then, involuntarily gaining chastity, Honorius condemned to abstinence all around him. He ordered the priests and his servants to remain in integrity from now on, and the decree fixed the decree. And he sent his assistant, Cardinal Cram, in 1126 to England, so that there, by the will of the pope, to expel lust and fornication.

    (By the way, this same Cram, upon arrival in London, first hurried to one of the London brothels, where he personally began to deal with the vice with his own member. He was so drunk that he fell asleep on another girl without paying off. Residents of the foggy island, learning about this incident, long and loudly laughing.)

    There were, however, in a series of popes and people of a different sense. Here, for example, the glorious Celestine V (1294), the founder of the monastic order. He never touched the body of a woman and rode a donkey in a sign of his humility before the Lord. Celestine commanded his cardinals to send to the remote monasteries all of their many "comforters." From now on, the cardinals themselves ordered them to live in chastity. Clear stump, for a long time this chaos could not continue. The dignitaries in the miter tolerated this righteous for only 19 weeks. Then they killed, unable to endure torture by abstinence - locked the pope in the dungeon and starved to death.

    Benedict VIII (1012–1024) was burdened with abundant offspring, for many nuns managed to lie with him on the bed, and he did not deprive his two young nieces of sex.

    Pope Paul II (1464–1471) was a sadist. In order to arouse passion, he loved to watch the naked bodies of men tortured by torture, after which he indulged in the joys of love with the boys. And he died, as it is written in the annals, "at the time of intercourse with a man."

    Pope Innocent VIII (1484–1492) is the father of eight daughters, with whom, incidentally, he had an intimate relationship ... As did Pope Julius III (1550–1555), who had intimate relationships with his two sons, who, in gratitude, for love at the age of 15 appropriated the rank of cardinals.

    Under Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), theocratic rule degenerated into the undisguised power of pornocrats. No one has ever indulged in orgies with such frenzy as this prime minister of the Lord. Every night, at his order, 25 of the most beautiful girls from brothels in Rome were brought to the papal palace. But dad did not stop at girls, he had sex with his daughter Lucretia, with her mother and grandmother ... Lovely what kind of people! "(C) Alexander Nikonov
    1. BruderV
      BruderV 27 March 2013 21: 03 New
      +1
      And the source of all these calculations, as usual, is known only to the author himself, who is the ultimate truth, and the ordinary mortal cannot find these revelations anywhere.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 28 March 2013 23: 17 New
        0
        The biographical novel of Alexander Paradisis "The Life and Activities of BALTASAR COSSA" (Pope John 23) is written on historical facts, I recommend ... an interesting book.
    2. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 21: 11 New
      0
      And you do not tell us the source of these "facts"? I’m dying, I want to find out who so hurts the truth.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 29 March 2013 13: 27 New
        0
        You can also read Camillo da Vioreggio "The History of the Papacy", Cardinal Baronia "Church Chronicle from the Birth of Christ to 1198", as well as Fleury, Alzog, Abbot Murre, philosopher Pastor Eimar.
  • RPD
    RPD 27 March 2013 14: 28 New
    +1
    noble joke "but nothing is written about celibacy" from there are all Freuds and psychoanalysis)))
    1. Pacifist
      Pacifist 27 March 2013 17: 38 New
      0
      and where does celibacy?
      abstinence as an indicator of religiosity is known even in pre-Christian times ... I would say strongly before ... only this in itself is more from the field of not psychology, but psychiatry ...
  • knn54
    knn54 27 March 2013 15: 07 New
    +9
    Incidentally, sadly, the Catholic Church is responsible for almost all the negative aspects of life in that Europe., First of all. Before the victory of Christianity, more than a thousand baths operated in Rome alone. Christians first came to power, closed all the baths. The woods were very expensive, the main consumer - the Holy Inquisition - was not enough. Burning had to be replaced by a quartering, and later by wheeleding.
    Queen of Spain Isabella of Castile (end of the XNUMXth century) admitted that she only washed twice in her entire life - at birth and on the day of the wedding. The daughter of one of the French kings died from lice. Pope Clement V dies from dysentery. And Pope Clement VII and King Philip II painfully die of scabies ...
    After the French king Louis IX (XIII century) was doused with slop from the window, the inhabitants of Paris were allowed to remove household waste through the window, only shouting beforehand three times: “Watch out!”.
    Around the 17th century, wide-brimmed hats were invented to protect heads from feces.
    Initially, curtsy was intended only to remove the ... smelly ... hat away from the sensitive nose of the lady.
    The streets were buried in mud and mud so much that there was no way to go through the mud. It was then, according to the chronicles that reached us, in many German cities appeared stilts, "spring shoes" of the townsman ...
    In the Middle Ages, when tanning of human skin (and the preservation of other parts of the body) began to be widely practiced, books or parchment wrapped in human skin appeared. These books have not reached us, although there are some historical reports about the 1793th century Bible and the text of the Decretals (Catholic Church Law) written on human skin. Among other documents bound into human skin are a copy of Human Rights and several copies of the French Constitution of XNUMX.
    Some historians were surprised why the soldiers of Sallah ad-Din so easily found Christian camps. The answer came very soon - by smell !!!
    PS Prince Myshkin at Dostoevsky did not in vain say that "Catholicism is even worse than atheism."
    1. Defender
      Defender 27 March 2013 16: 31 New
      0
      knn54, saveBo for Prince Myshkin!
    2. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 21: 29 New
      -2
      Before the victory of Christianity, more than a thousand baths operated in Rome alone


      And 10 thousand brothels!))

      You know, all these stories carry a logical problem. If the European nobility was so dissolved and loved the "carnal joys", then why didn’t you wash yourself at the same time? How do you imagine that? If sin is washed, then where so much debauchery comes from. And vice versa, sinning, they should have been washed then.

      As for the Inquisition, which for some reason everyone associates with the Middle Ages, it must be said that the main period of its activity (the so-called Second Inquisition) fell already in the 16-18 centuries, the so-called for New Time.
  • Bosk
    Bosk 27 March 2013 15: 13 New
    +3
    Well, at the expense of washing there, it’s not so simple either ... let's say there were big troubles with firewood, if the brushwood could be freely collected, and you wouldn’t drown the bathhouse in brushwood, but if you decided to cut something down (and there were almost all the forests there someone’s property) and got caught ... it was possible that the netok would lose some part of the body but also got caught on a large one ... maybe that's why in those days it became a fashion for them to eat corned beef and other preservatives. Tolley is the matter with us, even a serf could for his needs (not for sale) cut wood for himself in the lord's forest (well, naturally, for the master in the course of the action in the form of a tax). This is to say that they are not that they didn’t like to wash ... they just were in such a situation that it was difficult. and expensive.
    1. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 16 New
      -2
      The cult of the bath in Russia went from Byzantium, and indeed
      Europe lost much in Russia in this regard, but now, by the way, on average, Europeans are much more likely to wash themselves than Russians, it’s felts because of the cult of homosexuality, roofing felts are actually smarter, but by the fact, they are washed there more often now who disbelieves can travel by public transport in the summer with them and with us
      1. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 22: 32 New
        -1
        Quote: tomket
        The cult of the bath in Russia went from Byzantium, and indeed


        Of course, not only the BATH, but the TURKISH sauna, the fact that the Finnish sauna should not confuse you, the main thing is NOT RUSSIAN.

        oh now, by the way, on average, Europeans wash themselves more often than Russians,

        here is just one thing BUT Europeans (Germans, Angles) do not wash themselves under running water, but pour water into the pelvis and rinse one or another member there. And they have a problem with the energy carriers as well. laughing
        1. tomket
          tomket 27 March 2013 22: 36 New
          0
          Now, in order to resolve this ideological dispute, I’ll ask a friend of mine on Skype how they wash in Munich, her husband is English, so we will immediately get an answer about England and Germany)))
          1. Bosk
            Bosk 27 March 2013 23: 17 New
            +1
            EE guys, if we go on like this ... then we will go to the Japanese ... who, in the recent past, washed in turn in one tub ...
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 06: 59 New
        0
        Quote: tomket
        The cult of the bath in Russia went from Byzantium, and indeed

        they lived in the forests, set up log baths, drowned with firewood, and then somehow spat on this matter and by the Middle Ages had stopped washing, so was it Russo-independent nonsense?
  • Horde
    Horde 27 March 2013 15: 37 New
    -1
    The Russian ambassadors at the court of Louis XIV wrote that their majesty "stinks like a wild beast." The Russians themselves throughout Europe were considered perverts because they went to the bathhouse once a month - ugly often.
    If in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries wealthy citizens washed themselves at least once every six months, in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries they generally stopped taking a bath. True, sometimes I had to use it - but only for medicinal purposes. They carefully prepared for the procedure and put an enema on the eve. The French king Louis XIV washed only twice in his life - and then on the advice of doctors. The washing made the monarch so terrified that he had sworn never to accept water procedures.

    In those troubled times, body care was considered a sin. Christian preachers urged people to walk literally in rags and never wash themselves, since this was the way in which spiritual purification could be achieved. It was also impossible to wash because it was so possible to wash away the holy water that I had touched at baptism. As a result, people did not wash for years or did not know the water at all. Dirt and lice were considered special signs of holiness. The monks and nuns set the rest of the Christians with a corresponding example of service to the Lord.
    They looked at cleanliness with disgust. Lice were called "God's pearls" and considered a sign of holiness. Saints, both male and female, usually boasted that the water never touched their feet, except when they had to cross the river.

    People are so weaned from water procedures that Dr. F.E. In a popular medicine textbook of the late XNUMXth (!) Century, Bilts had to persuade people to wash themselves. “There are people who, in truth, do not dare to swim in the river or in the bath, because from childhood they never entered the water. This fear is groundless, ”wrote Bilz in the book“ A New Natural Treatment ”,“ After the fifth or sixth bath, you can get used to it ... ”. Few people believed the doctor ... laughing

    anyone interested http://www.gazeta.lv/story/7893.html
    1. Su24
      Su24 27 March 2013 22: 17 New
      -2
      The text was written by some "enlightener" with an obvious pathological craving for atheism.
      1. Horde
        Horde 27 March 2013 22: 34 New
        -2
        Quote: Su24
        The text was written by some "enlightener" with an obvious pathological craving for atheism.


        I'm watching a cowboy. Have you come to shoot? may noticed a link below, there is an entire article with links.
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 07: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Su24

        The text was written by some "enlightener" with an obvious pathological craving for atheism.

        here they try to write as they think, it turns out you, and writing by the way is not necessary in a religious vein
    2. tomket
      tomket 27 March 2013 22: 20 New
      0
      there was such an episode when the Duke of Norfolk, famous for his special piety and not having been washed for several years, asleep, washed the servants. When he woke up and found himself clean, he brutally carved the servants.
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 27 March 2013 23: 21 New
        +3
        There is a very simple way ... look at statistics on plague and other diseases in the Middle Ages ... I don’t know how anyone but I still adhere to the belief that cleanliness is the guarantee of health.
  • andreycherenok
    andreycherenok 27 March 2013 16: 15 New
    0
    There is a more complete version http://lib.rus.ec/b/244225/read
  • zeksus
    zeksus 27 March 2013 20: 00 New
    0
    Guys, has something changed since ??????
    1. BruderV
      BruderV 27 March 2013 21: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: zeksus
      Guys, has something changed since ??????

      The fact that in Europe streets are being washed with shampoo now, and in Rush Federal, impassable garbage and Tajiks are scraping ice with crowbars, beating pieces from paving slabs along the way, instead of garbage recycling plants, toxic landfills the height of Elbrus and ubiquitous nature, rudeness and indifference to others, etc. d. If the ancestors were in something more civilized than the surrounding countries, then this is an occasion to think about why now everything is the other way around, and not to pull up our nose and yell that that's all, and we are d'Artagnans.
      1. Orang
        Orang 27 March 2013 21: 36 New
        0
        Especially in Naples wash
        1. BruderV
          BruderV 27 March 2013 21: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: Orang
          Especially in Naples wash

          Southern Italy is generally the Middle East, rather, in terms of outlook, and outwardly, they were even under the rule of the Arabs for some time, just like Spain. And in the same Rome, you can comfortably sit right on the street on the road or on pedestrian stairs without staining your clothes.
  • engineer5
    engineer5 27 March 2013 20: 01 New
    +1
    Europe would like to erase a lot of its history from the memory of mankind. And much has been achieved.
  • Polkanov
    Polkanov 27 March 2013 20: 46 New
    0
    ... guys! All your debates about whether we are “good or bad in the Christian world” are not worth a penny. The Byzantine tradition of our Church is more viable than Catholicism and perversions originating from Catholicism. She was never militant, only peacefully drawing into her bosom. And then the matter is FAITH. And traditions ...
    1. Bosk
      Bosk 27 March 2013 23: 30 New
      0
      At the expense of peacefully attracting to my fold, if I am unmistakable, the most non-aggressive faith in this sense (just don’t throw slippers right away) is the old classic Jewish faith, they are forbidden to propagate their faith in places of residence of people of other religions and even when someone is accepted In their faith, there is such a moment in this ritual that the candidate is offered to refuse three times. It certainly was not the topic ... I just remembered.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 27 March 2013 23: 44 New
        0
        Quote: Bosk
        At the expense of peacefully attracting to his bosom

        That is not entirely true. Anything has happened.
      2. alexandr00070
        alexandr00070 28 March 2013 07: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: Bosk
        they are prohibited from promoting their faith in places of residence of people of other religions

        probably because they’re being beaten,
        Quote: Bosk
        three times offer refuse. It certainly was not the topic ... I just remembered.

        hence it went ------------ think three times
        1. Bosk
          Bosk 28 March 2013 14: 01 New
          0
          THINK THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT .... an interesting thought and most importantly breaks the logical chain.
  • smirnov
    smirnov 28 March 2013 00: 19 New
    0
    By the way, the "financial international" as it settled in London then remained there ....
  • Simple
    Simple 28 March 2013 00: 50 New
    -1
    Small news:
    ECB provides Cyprus with five billion euros in cash

    Under guard of helicopters, a convoy of money arrived in Cyprus. Money will be distributed at the bank branches.

    http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article114834339/EZB-liefert-Zypern-fuenf-Milliard
    en-euro-in-bar.html
  • psdf
    psdf 28 March 2013 05: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Anti
    Does this mean that the religion of the ancestors betrayed by moving to Orthodoxy?

    Orthodoxy differs from the rest of Christianity by approximately the size of the religion of their ancestors.
  • Tartary
    Tartary 28 March 2013 06: 31 New
    0
    Oh yeah ...
    500 years have not passed, and again they "enlighten and revive" the whole world ...
    Well, at least they wash themselves much more often than before .. Yes, fleas with lice ceased to endure - fashion makes you see ...
    But as they pooped on the heads of passers-by and neighbors, as they stinked for hundreds of kilometers, they never stop "stinking" ... Only the distance of the stench spread increased - the technical revolution, however ... request

    The catastrophe will extinguish the light - you will make them fuck again, and they will again shit behind your curtain or pants, like the “heroes” of Napoleon’s army in the 1812th ...
    Surprisingly - shit in your pants to keep warm ... lol
  • ULxaw86
    ULxaw86 28 March 2013 14: 54 New
    0
    Quote: bezumnyiPIT
    Yes, this is the Russian Orthodox Church, and two hundred and three hundred years ago it was the Russian Church, and before that the Moscow Metropolis, and earlier the Kiev Metropolis, the Church throughout its history played the role of a brainwasher for the common man, convinced him of the divine power and demanded unconditional slavish submission this very authority, a kind of ministry of propaganda

    And in the neighboring village there is a priest, the perfect antipode to "ours." He rides on the old six, very responsive, which is called close to the people and the numbers in his price list do not scare))
  • Setrac
    Setrac 29 March 2013 12: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: Horde
    art of the end of the 18th century because Tartaria is already gone i.e. the time of Catherine
    quite close to our time, but GALLIA is present,
    what anachronism? and notice again, and SPAIN AND
    PORTUGAL AND ENGLAND in the same letters
    that perhaps again is not a PARTY, but a COUNTRY all the same.

    Under Catherine the Second there was a war, which later was called "The Uprising of Emelyan Pugachev" for propaganda purposes. So Tartaria did not go anywhere; she was under Catherine the Second. "Anachronisms" - tell us about the falsity of history, as in a bad detective story - when rewriting history, authors cannot take into account all the little things, so "anachronisms" and other inconsistencies are born.
    "Piano in the bushes" is a feature not only of science fiction, but also of history.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 29 March 2013 23: 02 New
      -1
      Quote: Setrac
      Under Catherine the Second there was a war, which later was called "The Uprising of Emelyan Pugachev" for propaganda purposes. So Tartaria did not go anywhere; she was under Catherine the Second.

      the one that deprived the Cossacks of autonomy, and the Zaporizhzhya Sich completely evicted them in the Kuban. where they now erect monuments to it, adore it, they call it almost the ancestor of the Cossacks, and it’s not clear to politicians that the Cossacks are exiled in the Kuban, and it’s kind of damned to curse the red terror against the Cossacks but no idolize

      Quote: Setrac
      "Anachronisms" - tell us about the falsity of history, as in a bad detective story - when rewriting history, authors cannot take into account all the little things, so "anachronisms" and other inconsistencies are born.
      "Piano in the bushes" is a feature not only of science fiction, but also of history.


      I read somewhere that under the Soviet regime, Karamzin was reprinted five times, with corrections, so when applying his story to the history of Europe, five episodes coincided, and here, while cleaning up the history in Russia, historians cannot correct European maps. Although there are shaded places on the map above ............................, maybe ours got
  • Rusal
    Rusal 29 March 2013 12: 42 New
    +1
    I advise everyone to read the Veles book in translation of the Hnatiuk spouses
    and then argue about the faith of the ancestors
    1. Bosk
      Bosk 29 March 2013 13: 15 New
      0
      If this translation is present in NET, you can remove the link ...
      1. Rusal
        Rusal 29 March 2013 15: 13 New
        0
        http://knigavelesa.narod.ru/knigi/gnatiyk/ogl.html
        1. Bosk
          Bosk 29 March 2013 22: 34 New
          0
          Thanks ... be sure to read.
          1. Bosk
            Bosk 30 March 2013 14: 51 New
            0
            I read and even printed it ... I have to notice it is interesting and there is something to think about.
        2. alexandr00070
          alexandr00070 29 March 2013 23: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: rusal
          http://knigavelesa.narod.ru/knigi/gnatiyk/ogl.html

          interesting site, thank you
  • Rubik
    Rubik 29 March 2013 17: 22 New
    -2
    If they were so rotten in those centuries. how did their civilizations survive to this day and seize world power? Some kind of contradiction.
    1. Belogor
      Belogor 29 March 2013 19: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: Rubik
      If they were so rotten in those centuries. how did their civilizations survive to this day and seize world power? Some kind of contradiction.

      Money and power are not separable concepts and complement each other, but they had money !!!
      1. Rubik
        Rubik 30 March 2013 01: 53 New
        -1
        Quote: Belogor
        [
        Money and power are not separable concepts and complement each other, but they had money !!!

        they had money because when they learned how to earn money, we still had serfs and serfdom.
  • seafarer
    seafarer 29 March 2013 17: 42 New
    0
    Quote: alexandr00070
    Quote: Setrac
    We know this from the Romans themselves, that is, there is no faith in these words

    That is, Caligula is not authority for you, he is the whole emperor

    Of course not! Still Nero would remember laughing
    You can still more or less trust Guy Julius Caesar, Octavian Augustus and Marcus Aurelius.
    And actually, Roman virtues ended with Republican Rome.
    1. alexandr00070
      alexandr00070 29 March 2013 23: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: seafarer

      Quote: alexandr00070
      Quote: Setrac
      We know this from the Romans themselves, that is, there is no faith in these words
      That is, Caligula is not authority for you, he is the whole emperor
      Of course not! Still Nero would remember
      You can still more or less trust Guy Julius Caesar, Octavian Augustus and Marcus Aurelius.
      And actually, Roman virtues ended with Republican Rome.

      actually it was humor
  • воронов
    воронов 30 March 2013 21: 53 New
    -1
    Europeans still dare to teach us something, there has been a cult of baths among Russians since ancient times, washing in them at least once a week was mandatory, and in modern Europe it’s still not accepted to wash hands before eating laughing
  • воронов
    воронов 30 March 2013 21: 55 New
    0
    Europeans still dare to teach us something, there has been a cult of baths among Russians since ancient times, washing in them at least once a week was mandatory, and in modern Europe it’s still not accepted to wash hands before eating laughing