Rocket trains, old and new

147
At the very end of last year, Russian mass media appeared news regarding a return to an old and almost forgotten idea. According to RIA Novosti, work is already underway to create a new combat railway missile complex (BZHRK) and the first rocket train of the new project can be assembled by 2020 year. Armament of our army already consisted of such systems, but the only ones in stories BZHRK 15P961 "Good for you" were removed from duty in 2005 year, and soon most of the equipment from their composition was disposed of. Trains with rocket armament were rightfully the pride of Soviet designers, and indeed of the whole country. Due to their capabilities, these complexes posed a serious threat to a potential enemy. However, the history of this type of technology can not be called simple. At first, a series of completely unpleasant events at first strongly limited the potential of domestic BZHRK, and then led to their complete disappearance.



Creating a railway missile complex was very difficult. Despite the fact that the corresponding order of the country's leadership and the Ministry of Defense appeared as early as 1969, the first full-fledged launch of the RT-23UTTH rocket took place only in 85. Development BZHRK conducted in Dnepropetrovsk design bureau "Yuzhnoye" them. M.K. Yangel under the leadership of V.F. Utkin. The specific operating conditions of the new system made it necessary to develop a mass of new solutions, from the newly designed car-launcher disguised as a refrigerator to the collapsible fairing of the rocket head part. Nevertheless, more than fifteen years of work have been crowned with success. In 1987, the first regiment of the "Molodtsov" set in on duty. Over the next four years before the collapse of the Soviet Union, three divisions were formed, armed with a total of twelve new BZHRKs.

Unfortunately, soon after the formation of the last third division, several unpleasant things happened, which very badly affected the future service of the BZHRK. In the 1991 year, in the course of international negotiations on a future START I treaty, the Soviet leadership agreed to several unfavorable offers from the American side. Among them was a restriction concerning the patrol routes of “rocket trains”. With the light hand of the President of the USSR, M. Gorbachev and some of his associates, BZhRK could now move only within a radius of several tens of kilometers from the bases. In addition to the obvious military-political drawbacks, this restriction also had economic consequences. Simultaneously with the commissioning of the Molodets complexes, the Ministry of Railways was conducting work to strengthen the routes within a radius of several hundred kilometers from the BZhRK bases. Thus, the Soviet Union lost both the main advantage of the BZHRK and a lot of money that was spent on the reconstruction of the tracks and the preparation of launch positions.

The next international treaty - START II - implied the removal from duty and disposal of all the RT-XNUMHUTTH missiles. The end date for this work was 23 year. Especially for the dismantling and disposal of the Bryansk repair plant of the rocket forces, with the participation of the United States, a cutting line was assembled. Fortunately for BZHRK, shortly before the deadline for the disposal of missiles and trains, Russia withdrew from the START II treaty. However, over the next few years, recycling continued, although it proceeded at a much slower pace. To date, only a few cars of the former BZHRK have been preserved, which are used as museum exhibits.

Rocket trains, old and new


As you can see, the short history of the Molodets missile systems was difficult and unsuccessful. Almost immediately after the launch of the train with missiles, they lost their main advantage and after that they no longer presented the same threat to the enemy as before. Nevertheless, the complexes remained in service for a decade and a half. Now there is every reason to believe that the “Molodtsov” scrapped only when they had exhausted their resources and the stock of missiles came to an end. One of the most serious attacks on Russian rocket trains was the collapse of the Soviet Union. Because of him, the plant "Yuzhmash", which collected the complexes and missiles for them, remained in the territory of sovereign Ukraine. This country had its own views on the future work of rocket production, and therefore the trains were left without a new weapons.

In the discussions about the beginning of the development of new BZHRK often consider the advantages and disadvantages of this type of technology. The first, of course, can be attributed to the possibility of duty on a long distance from the base. After a train with rockets entered the public railways, finding it becomes very, very difficult. Of course, three diesel locomotives, nine refrigerated wagons (three rocket modules) and a tank wagon produced old BZHRK to some extent, but tremendous efforts were required to ensure tracking of their movements. In fact, it was necessary to “cover” the entire or almost the entire territory of the Soviet Union with intelligence. Also, the advantage of the complex can be considered a successful liquid-propellant rocket RT-23UTTH. A ballistic missile with a launch weight of 104 tons could deliver ten combat units with 10100 kilotons each to a range of 430 kilometers. In the light of the mobility of the missile complex, such characteristics of the rocket gave it simply unique opportunities.

However, it was not without flaws. The main disadvantage of BZHRK 15P961 is its weight. Because of the non-standard "load", several original technical solutions had to be applied, but with their use the starting module of the three cars put too much pressure on the rails, almost at the limit of their capabilities. Because of this, in the late eighties, the railroad workers had to change and strengthen a huge number of paths. Since then, the country's railways have again been worn out and, before putting into service, the new missile complex will most likely need another renewal of tracks.

Also BZhRK regularly accused of insufficient strength and vitality, especially in comparison with the mine launchers. To test survivability in the eighties began the relevant tests. In 1988, the works on the Shine and Thunderstorm topics were successfully completed, the purpose of which was to test the performance of trains with missiles under conditions of strong electromagnetic radiation and thunderstorms, respectively. In 1991, one of the line-up trains took part in the Shift test. At the 53 research site (now the Plesetsk cosmodrome), several tens of thousands of anti-tank mines were laid with a total explosion power of about 1000 tons of TNT. At a distance of 450 meters from the ammunition, butt to them, put the rocket module of the train. A little further - in 850 meters - placed another launcher and command center of the complex. Launchers were equipped with electric missiles. During the detonation of mines, all BZHRK modules suffered only slightly — the windows flew out and the work of some minor equipment modules was disrupted. Training launch with the use of the electric rocket was successful. Thus, a kiloton explosion less than a kilometer from the train is not able to completely disable the BZHRK. To this it is worthwhile to add more than a low probability of an enemy missile’s combat unit hitting the train while driving or near it.



In general, even the short-term operation of the Molodets BZHRK with serious restrictions on the routes clearly demonstrated both the advantages and the difficulties associated with this class of military equipment. Probably, precisely because of the ambiguity of the very concept of the railway complex, which simultaneously promises greater mobility of missiles, but at the same time requires strengthening the ways, not to mention the complexity of creating a train and missiles for it, the design work on creating new “rocket trains” has not been resumed . According to the latest data, at present the employees of design organizations and the Ministry of Defense are analyzing the prospects of the BZHRK and determine the necessary features of its appearance. Therefore, now we can not talk about any nuances of the new project. Moreover, due to the use in service of mobile ground-based missile systems (PGRK) Topol, Topol-M and Yars, which do not need a strong railway track, the creation of a new BZHRK can be completely canceled.

Now there are a variety of opinions about the possible appearance of promising BZHRK. For example, it is proposed to equip it with missiles of existing projects, such as the PC-24 "Yars". With a starting mass of about 50 tons, a similar rocket, which is also already used on the PGRK, can be a good substitute for the old PT23UTTH. With similar dimensions and half the mass of the new rocket with certain modifications can become a weapon for new BZHRK. At the same time, the combat characteristics of the complex will remain approximately at the same level. Thus, the range gain (up to 11000 km) will be compensated by a smaller number of warheads, because only 24-3 (according to other data, six) charges are placed at the head of the PC-4. However, the Yars missile will be in operation for about ten years by the expected date of the launch of the new BZhRK. Thus, for the new rocket trains will need a new ballistic missile. It is possible that its appearance will be formed along with the requirements for the entire complex.

At the same time, rocket engineers can use the experience gained in creating relatively small rockets like the Topol or Yars. In this case, it will be possible to create a new rocket with a wide use of mastered solutions and technologies, but at the same time suitable for use in railway complexes. As a basis for a new missile for BZHRK, the existing Topoli-M or Yarsy are also suitable due to the fact that they are adapted for operation on mobile complexes. However, the final decision regarding the "origin" of the rocket and the requirements for it, it seems, has not yet been made. Given the duration of the development and testing of new missiles, in order to be in time for the 2020 year, rocket engineers should receive requirements over the coming years or even months.

Finally, account must be taken of the need to build infrastructure. Judging by the information available on the state of the old BZhRK bases, everything will have to be rebuilt. For a few years old depot, control rooms, etc. turned out to be decommissioned, devoid of a large number of special equipment, are rendered unusable and sometimes even partially looted. It is quite clear that for effective combat work the new railway missile complexes will need the appropriate facilities and equipment. But the restoration of existing buildings or the construction of new ones will significantly increase the cost of the entire project.

Thus, if we compare railway and ground-based missile systems, the comparison may not be in favor of the former. The hypothetical mobile ground launcher, with the same rocket with the railway, is less demanding on the condition of the road, much easier to manufacture, and does not need to coordinate travel routes with third parties, for example, with the leadership of the railway. An important advantage of ground-based missile systems is also the fact that all the necessary infrastructure for them is simpler and, as a result, cheaper than for railroad ones. Therefore, it is not surprising that in the mid 2000s, the command of the Strategic Missile Forces officially announced the abandonment of the BZhRK in favor of the PGRK. In the light of such a decision, the resumption of work on railway complexes looks solely as an attempt to expand the capabilities of nuclear forces and, if there are certain prospects, equip them with another type of technology.

In the current situation, it is not worth waiting for news regarding the start of construction of the first rocket train of the new project, because it has not even been decided what it will be and whether it will be at all. Therefore, it remains to hope that the analysis of opportunities and prospects, including comparative (BZHRK or PGRK), will be carried out with all the responsibility and its results will only bring benefit to our rocket forces.

Base BZHRK












On the materials of the sites:
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/
http://pentagonus.ru/
http://armscontrol.ru/
http://rian.ru/
147 comments
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  1. +63
    22 February 2013 09: 21
    BZHRK-weapon of retaliation. Almost untraceable .. (At the exercises near Poltava, the time and place of launch was known, but the US satellite group could not track the train after the launch, and this was under ideal conditions. And if the war starts, the satellites will not fly so easily.) Our Defense Ministry has the last decision time healthy and balanced. Sure, they will revive! The fact that rockets are lighter is also a plus. Depreciation of the railway network will be less, and this is also important .. Yes, and a smaller volley is compensated by the number of trains on combat duty, which in itself will increase the survivability of the systems and the combat stability of the retaliatory strike system as a whole.
    1. +14
      22 February 2013 11: 28
      Mitek,
      I agree that it was hard to track earlier, maybe technically and now it will be hard. But there remain corrupt generals and officers who will tell for $$$ and where, when and what time it will go am
      1. +25
        22 February 2013 13: 38
        In order to sell this information, it is necessary to drain the information almost in real time, and organizing such a communication channel with sworn "partners" is almost impossible, because the FSB is not a sucker either, at least in areas related to our nuclear weapons. In addition, it is necessary to have agents for this at almost every base point, this is also unrealistic, because it was not for nothing that the amers first of all demanded to limit the radius of patrolling of trains, which means they practically could not track them. And taking into account the half weight of the rocket, the whole carriage with it will not differ much from the weight of a regular carriage, designed for 64 tons, so it is possible that 3 locomotives will not be needed, and you can also attach empty cars to the "refrigerator" sections, then let them try track them
      2. +3
        22 February 2013 14: 28
        Atrix,
        Hmm, the venality of everyone and everything is already tired.
        In general, there should be many trains, many potential targets for defeat, which will puzzle any general. Especially on the track lose the train just spit, sometimes it’s easier to find Poplar in the forest.
      3. Octavian avgust
        +3
        22 February 2013 15: 50
        Find and stab put traitors!
        1. sir
          -1
          23 February 2013 10: 55
          am hold on
        2. vitiaz
          +1
          28 February 2013 10: 35
          Gorbatago to tear on footcloths!
    2. +8
      22 February 2013 13: 19
      Quote: //
      It can be assembled by 2020.


      Mitek still needs to live up to this time, and then report how you do it now
      1. +3
        22 February 2013 22: 09
        Quote: Vadivak
        Mitek still needs to live up to this time, and then report how you do it now

        This is my catchphrase! laughing Amer sit and wait, when we will restore our former power! wassat I’m afraid that we don’t have a year!
        1. +3
          23 February 2013 01: 50
          We have everything that everything will not be affected by 2020. At one time, they promised communism, but everyone knows what they have come to. As if all this was not the next tales from the authorities.
          1. wall
            +1
            23 February 2013 08: 34
            Yes, we have power wherever you spit - the children and nephews of those who promised us communism in the very near future. We are waiting for what their granddaughters will build for us.
    3. rubber_duck
      +2
      22 February 2013 15: 47
      Quote: Mitek
      And start a war, the satellites will not fly so easily.


      Yah? And what are you going to stop them today?

      Quote: Mitek
      Our MO have recently made sound and balanced decisions.


      Yah? What is the "last time"? Since taking office as a fire lieutenant? Nothing epoch-making, except for PR moves, has yet to be seen.


      And most of all I was glad about "we will assemble one train by 2020". These things are not weapons, but a means of diplomacy. They work when they exist, there are many of them, but how many - the enemy does not know. They influence the adversary's decision making. Sometimes very serious decisions (remember the notorious "Caribbean crisis"). But! Affect when they are. They exist, they drive and are ready to shoot. And when “in just seven years we will make one, if we succeed”, then we can not build.
      1. Georges14
        -3
        23 February 2013 01: 09
        Of course - you don’t need to build, you’ll cut it all the same. It’s easier to sell all the remaining nuclear weapons and fire the lieutenant. And live in peace. DDD
        1. rubber_duck
          +1
          23 February 2013 22: 22
          Quote: Georges14
          Of course - you don’t need to build, you’ll cut it all the same. It’s easier to sell all the remaining nuclear weapons and fire the lieutenant.

          Is that where I said you don't need to build? No need to juggle. It is necessary, and how. So that the plant (one, it seems, remained?) Choked with orders, so that in the process it completes the missing buildings and access roads, so that specialists are attracted from all over the country (if there is nothing else, then rabid "grandmas"!). Build, as if this is the very meaning of our existence. Tighten your belts, dress up in quilted jackets (by the way, it is warmer and more comfortable, and sarcasm has nothing to do with it), but build! And not only "atomic trains", but also submarines, mine installations, even our wretched aviation "component of the triad", and we must not forget it!

          PS I did not say "fire-lieutenant", but "lieutenant-fireman". I hope you haven't caught the difference just by mistake. These are two different things.

          PPS Following your logic, let us put together "pilot copies" with great difficulty from year to year and wait for them to finally integrate into "business processes" (well, they must, right) ?!
      2. 0
        27 February 2013 14: 01
        barrel of nails on the opposite path laughing
    4. +3
      23 February 2013 00: 06
      By the way, I want to add that the branching of the railways is the highest in the world and that rockets can be launched from rocket trains anywhere, if only the tracks can withstand the starting load.
      1. psdf
        +2
        23 February 2013 02: 52
        Transportation. Starting the path does not destroy.
    5. +1
      23 February 2013 13: 58
      This video has already been uploaded, but suddenly who did not see

  2. Drappier
    +11
    22 February 2013 09: 25
    Pain in the eyes...
    1. avt
      +20
      22 February 2013 10: 11
      Quote: Drapper
      Pain in the eyes..

      Not that word ! At such rates of degradation, under the guidance of effective managers on Baikonur, they will tell how the gods ascended to heaven in chariots of fire.
      1. +3
        22 February 2013 11: 01
        avt,

        ... land on elephants, elephants on a turtle ... degradation is evident
    2. Octavian avgust
      +3
      22 February 2013 15: 52
      It's a shame for the Power! The main thing is to start working now.
    3. 0
      23 February 2013 00: 56
      Photos of the base resemble a stalker, the same devastation and desolation
  3. +4
    22 February 2013 09: 28
    The commissioning of these porozovoziks will sharply increase the striking power of our nuclear club and reduce the capabilities of e-war ships. Railway containers are cheap and cheerful, and most importantly, find them.
    1. chuckling
      -9
      22 February 2013 18: 46
      And also introduce - BARK (combat bus cancer complex), tactical purpose. And, in the perspective (URGENT) -BARKT (military auto cancer complex taxi) - for operational tasks. BL "@ - YES, THEN YOU WILL NOT FOLLOW US AT ALL !!! am
      1. Georges14
        -2
        23 February 2013 01: 18
        No - now the most important thing is to introduce the BATP (Combined Operational Taxi for Psychiatrists) - to help the most advanced. TO TRACK !!!
  4. +15
    22 February 2013 09: 32
    Whatever the disadvantages of the BZHRK, everything was more than compensated by the secrecy of the complex. And most importantly, the Americans were really AFRAID.
    It is a pity that these complexes merged ... like the whole country ...
    1. +11
      22 February 2013 10: 16
      They were not leaked, they were forced out of production! Missiles were made in Ukraine, and rolling stock in Bryansk. After the collapse of the USSR, they needed new missiles and their maintenance, and the situation when the combat efficiency of a weapon depends on another state doesn’t go through any gates, so they had to take it off, because there was no money to develop a new rocket !!!
      1. +4
        22 February 2013 13: 45
        And there was no need for a new missile - "Sineva" sea-based, weight is about 34 tons, range is also decent, it could be modified for a railway complex, launching from under water is much more difficult than from a container from a "refrigerator". And to hoh ... lats, this rocket had nothing to do with it at all.
        1. stjrm
          0
          17 March 2013 01: 52
          Quote: Andrey57
          And there was no need for a new missile - "Sineva" sea-based, weight is about 34 tons, range is also decent, it could be modified for a railway complex, launching from under water is much more difficult than from a container from a "refrigerator". And to hoh ... lats, this rocket had nothing to do with it at all.


          Uh, no, it only seems that way at first sight ...)
          So it’s possible to agree to the point that it’s enough just to carry a certain supply of water with you ... Well, why did you fill the gap of the ring with such conditions for you ...)
    2. 0
      26 February 2013 12: 01
      Quote: Dimach
      And most importantly, the Americans were really AFRAID.

      then it was necessary to call in all bast shoes about adoption new(old) type of weapon - BZHRK. Let our "sworn friends" twitch. (and then, on the sly, with the observance of secrecy, discuss-build, etc.) And the Yakindos and the brethren sympathetic to her would have already learned to flinch with horror at night (otherwise they had lost the habit of so many years am )
  5. +18
    22 February 2013 09: 35
    Enough to live what was, it is time to live by what is created now. Technology does not stand still. BZHRK I think you can create it now and easily. Missiles have become lighter, electronics are more compact. the only question for me. As a private company, Russian Railways will pass the BZHRD along the routes. How much will it cost for MO?
    1. Dmitry_2013
      +4
      22 February 2013 09: 45
      Enough to live what was, it is time to live by what is created now.

      History teaches us to draw conclusions. And for those who don’t want or don’t know how to draw conclusions, others will do it .... Moreover, it’s clearly not in favor of the latter ...
      Technology does not stand still. BZHRK I think you can create it now and easily. Missiles have become lighter, electronics are more compact. the only question for me.

      Well this does not mean that let's cut all the tanks ... they are old with us, we’ll create another five thousand .... It's not so simple. Technologies themselves do not appear, they are created on the basis of daily operation and technical developments. And if there is nothing to exploit, there is no experience, respectively ... And it will turn out, as in Germany, when German designers had a lot of ideas and new technologies, but they created wunderwaffles, and not effective equipment, since they did not have time to gain experience from operation.
      Of course, nothing will appear, it is necessary to develop.
    2. +7
      22 February 2013 09: 56
      the only question for me. As a private company, Russian Railways will pass the BZHRD along the routes. How much will it cost for MO?

      Who told you that Russian Railways is a private company?
      The sole shareholder of the company is the Russian Federation. On her behalf, the powers of the shareholder are exercised by the Government of the Russian Federation [21]. It approves the position of president of the company, annually forms a board of directors and approves annual reports.
      1. 0
        22 February 2013 10: 00
        Quote: Rus_87
        Who told you that Russian Railways is a private company? The sole shareholder of the company is the Russian Federation. On her behalf, the powers of the shareholder are exercised by the Government of the Russian Federation [21]. It approves the position of president of the company, annually forms a board of directors and approves annual reports.

        The trouble with Russian realities is that in those places where budget funds should not be spent, they are spent, and quite significantly.
    3. avt
      +3
      22 February 2013 10: 14
      Quote: PROXOR
      Enough to live what was, it is time to live by what is created now. Technology does not stand still. BZHRK I think you can create it now and easily.

      It’s easy that only cats will be born, now there’s no one to repeat, and the Utkin brothers have passed away. You can’t imagine what level of cooperation and how such systems were created in the USSR. This is something that the old rocket launcher is not visible, I think he would have issued a comment on this topic.
      1. +1
        22 February 2013 10: 25
        Quote: avt
        It’s easy that only cats will be born, now there’s no one to repeat, and the Utkin brothers have passed away. You can’t imagine what level of cooperation and how such systems were created in the USSR. This is something that the old rocket launcher is not visible, I think he would have issued a comment on this topic.

        Imagine. BUT DO IT ALREADY NEED YESTERDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT YOU CANNOT BE RETURNED.
      2. +24
        22 February 2013 11: 21
        Quote: avt
        Utkins are gone. You have no idea what level of cooperation and how such systems were created in the USSR. This is something that the old rocket launcher is not visible, I think he would have issued a comment on this topic.


        Father in 1984 was a member of the State Commission for the reception of the BZHRK complex from the GURVO Strategic Missile Forces. He has a general photograph of all the members of the commission headed by Utkin. So out of almost 100 people of engineers, designers and specialists, only a few are still alive. (Father at that time was the youngest of them.) Well, in the future, naturally, the entire school and traditions gradually degraded. In general, by the mid-80s of the last century, a huge scientific and technical reserve had been made in the country in the field of strategic weapons, there were really many having implemented breakthrough projects which within 10-15 years we would leave far behind the Americans. Some of these projects are only now, after 20-25 years, we are trying to implement almost from scratch. For example, the same heavy ICBM, which is now only planned to replace the Voevoda, has already been designed and manufactured at Yuzhmash, which was to be tested on December 27, 1991. launch from the Plesetsk cosmodrome. But with the collapse of the Union, the project was abandoned. Gorbachev hacked to death a lot to please his American friends, and then the EBN and the bankers in power finally finished off and sold everything. We exchanged the sword of the Empire for sausage and clothes and only now we begin to realize what we have lost.
        1. stjrm
          0
          17 March 2013 01: 56
          Quote: Ascetic
          Quote: avt
          Utkins are gone. You have no idea what level of cooperation and how such systems were created in the USSR. This is something that the old rocket launcher is not visible, I think he would have issued a comment on this topic.


          "...... We exchanged the sword of the Empire for sausage and clothes and only now we begin to realize what we have lost.


          Yes, they said well ...)
    4. +1
      22 February 2013 10: 18
      They will be obligated through the Law, just as now all mobile operators provide information about negotiations, etc. to state bodies, when this is provided for by the Law (free of charge and upon request)!
    5. +1
      22 February 2013 13: 08
      I agree! But Russian Railways is also a parastatal company, if it receives an order, it will enter the trains in the traffic schedule. No matter how the companies are being denationalized, nobody removes defense issues from the agenda. And no one will trample against the state in these matters. An example of Khodorkovsky is clear. Any company’s business can be taken out of the safe and dust blown from it.
      1. +1
        23 February 2013 00: 12
        And these missile trains, and so, when they went, were inscribed in the schedules. When they rested or were on another site, then just freight trains passed along these lines.
        1. 0
          23 February 2013 13: 51
          I agree, but when the "train" was on, in addition to the line occupied by it, two lines were also removed before and after it, i.e. 5 threads.
    6. 0
      22 February 2013 14: 59
      In addition, many foreign containers are being shipped on our routes today. You also can’t keep track of them in which intelligence equipment is located. It is necessary not so much to revive old ideas as to come up with new, even more effective ones.
    7. 0
      22 February 2013 15: 12
      That Railways, that Gazmyas, they will never be private !!!!!! The state rules!
    8. Quiet
      +2
      22 February 2013 23: 37
      As a private company, Russian Railways will pass the BZHRD along the routes. How much will it cost for MO?

      I think that this will be VERY expensive for Russian Railways if they do not miss .... angry wassat
  6. Dmitry_2013
    +1
    22 February 2013 09: 42
    First we drove ... we are now recovering ... sad
    From all this it is necessary to draw conclusions, otherwise, during the next economic crisis, again some hands will itch to cut everything and "optimize"!
    Only targeted and continuous development will give us the opportunity to reach a higher level, thereby making us respect us in the international arena. And also there is always the opportunity to use military technology in peaceful production, because the re-adjustment of the tracks will allow the transport of more massive cargoes, which will undoubtedly affect the reduction in shipping costs. wink
    So you look and a heavier tank on the platform can be put .... the bar will rise weight, respectively, and security ...
  7. djon3volta
    +2
    22 February 2013 10: 03
    Americans also tried to create something like this, studied our BZHRK from pictures (not photographs), tried to track by satellites, but when they looked at satellite photos of railway stations where there are dozens of people, they realized that it was impossible to find and distinguish it! once Americans thought up how to track it , delivered a railway container stuffed with various photos, cinema, and radio tracking equipment by sea from Europe to the Far East, under the guise of a regular container for things, then the container should proceed from the Far East along the railway to the European part of the Russian Federation, scan all passing trains in parallel, scan all the way before radioactivity, but our scouts intercepted the container at the very beginning, in the port. when they opened the container there they found tracking equipment. In short, the Americans did laughing
    1. +2
      22 February 2013 10: 58
      Well, now the technology has stepped forward a little, in fact, if you set a snapshot of the composition from above, then the system, in principle, with good probability will be able to automatically find them on satellite data .. that’s current it will not help much

      the goal is often moving, plus it is worth making a rearrangement of cars, or repaint the composition and system

      the main thing is that the bugs do not hang on the composition, and this by the way is not particularly difficult for professionals
      1. +1
        22 February 2013 13: 54
        I dare to assure you that it is almost impossible to hang "bugs" on such complexes, this is not a car in the parking lot, there were also systems for detecting such "surprises" hi
        1. +1
          23 February 2013 00: 21
          I agree with that too. In the parking lots, the missile trains were guarded by guards, the duty officer or warrant officer always went with the inspector of the cars, in addition, equipment that tracks these bugs can be put on the trains. So unauthorized persons were not allowed to the trains, even from among the railway workers, or were allowed, but with the guard of the train.
      2. Quiet
        +1
        22 February 2013 23: 48
        You dear have forgotten about the "dummy" - false cars !!!! hi Even if "dummies" are stuck into standard trains tomorrow and run along the routes, the USA will start to get nervous ... belay
  8. +3
    22 February 2013 10: 11
    insulting and annoying ..... but it is necessary to restore!
  9. ed65b
    +3
    22 February 2013 10: 17
    They are cute on conservation. I know even where.
    1. Dmitry_2013
      +5
      22 February 2013 11: 03
      wink watch them properly! Don't let "modernize"!
    2. DDR
      0
      22 February 2013 11: 11
      "WE are peaceful people, but our armored train is on a side track"
    3. +4
      22 February 2013 20: 10
      Hello everyone .
      Say no more.
  10. SPIRITofFREEDOM
    +1
    22 February 2013 10: 17
    Well, here too, on the one hand, we need to look at the economic side of the issue. Our GDP is not rubber, money should be distributed wisely and making allowance for cuts.
    But of course, new weapons will only be a plus
  11. vmnss
    0
    22 February 2013 10: 54
    The problem is that Russian Railways got rid of such a type of rolling stock as refrigerated trains. We’ll have to come up with something new to disguise.
    1. +1
      22 February 2013 13: 57
      Yes, even for passenger cars or double tanks, which are now not measured on the tracks, then you’ll try to track them altogether.
      1. +1
        22 February 2013 19: 41
        The problem is not only this - but the train can move everywhere (THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE FACT) BUT !!!!!!!!! for launching, we need a special platform (next to us was at the Lyukshudya station (so I saw these trains myself) - at the moment all the main routes are electrofocated - to start either cut the wires or drive into a dead end - you need to have locomotives to move the train and electric locomotives (a train with such a set will stand out strongly — this is also a fact) to compare mobile complexes (poplar) with Zheldorovskie too, like an airplane with a helicopter — for the BZHRK, special launch sites were built (concrete), since with a simple zheldor embankment a one-time launch (rocket will leave but the cars are no longer from the destroyed paths)
        1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
          0
          22 February 2013 23: 00
          I think if it comes to launch, nobody will think about wires .....
        2. Georges14
          -1
          23 February 2013 01: 31
          Indeed, how dumb are academics did not think that the truth interfere!
        3. psdf
          +3
          23 February 2013 02: 54
          Watch movies about trains - launch was conducted from any site. Wires are not a hindrance, they were moved away by a lever.
        4. Nord007hold
          +1
          3 March 2013 03: 30
          The wires are pushed back by a special mechanism. Everything is provided there.
  12. +4
    22 February 2013 10: 55
    Moreover, due to the presence of the Topol, Topol-M and Yars mobile ground missile systems (PGRK), which do not need a solid rail, the creation of a new BZHRK can be completely canceled.


    the soil complex is just easy to calculate, the roads for them should be quite wide, without serious off-road, plus they don’t travel far from the base

    and in case of aggravation of situations, you can drive a few thousand kilometers from the base, put them in tunnels and look for winds in the field

    As for the coordination of the BZHRK routes with railway workers, this is not such a difficult matter, especially when you consider that they are partially owned by the state
    1. Poplar
      +1
      23 February 2013 22: 52
      Sorry, but you are not on the subject of PGRK. Just units and are designed for off-road, plus shelves (divisions) from the bases drive long away.
  13. +4
    22 February 2013 11: 14
    Gobachev damn .... such a technique prosral
    1. gladiatorakz
      +7
      22 February 2013 12: 53
      Quote: Bresch
      Gobachev damn .... such a technique prosral

      UNION prosral All subsequent Karabakh, Transnistria, Chechnya 1-2 - all the blood on it. Moreover, tens of millions of extinct and degraded thanks to him.
    2. +1
      23 February 2013 00: 23
      Yes, the hunchback didn’t piss these trains, but did worse, decided to please the amers and on his own initiative entered them into the contract.
  14. +2
    22 February 2013 11: 16
    To recreate the BZHRK is not a problem, although it will be very, very expensive, the main problem is to provide the same secrecy as in the days of the USSR, and then this work was truly at the height by the efforts of the KGB and army counterintelligence agencies, which in turn was ensured exclusively by the USSR’s closeness and the total control of foreigners in the country, at present the country is just a passage yard, and the means of observation in its development have stepped far forward.
    By the way, it’s very easy to clearly distinguish BZHRK from simple freight trains — just look at them from the side — some wagons (including the launch one) have three-axle or four-axle sub-car (see 1 photo) carts, and ordinary cars with two-axle carts.
    1. 0
      22 February 2013 15: 09
      According to Russian Railways standards, up to 30 tons can be loaded onto biaxial platforms. So the rocket should be in these weight categories, even if it has one warhead on it. But vogon in the composition on a double electric traction can be about 50 units.
      1. 77bor1973
        0
        22 February 2013 23: 13
        You can load more, the main thing is the axle load of not more than 20 tons.
      2. +1
        23 February 2013 00: 29
        I do not agree with this. The missile trains used wagons not two axle, which had not been used for a long time, but six axle, which could carry up to 80 tons of cargo.
    2. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      +1
      22 February 2013 23: 04
      And from the satellite you can see how many wheelsets are in the car, and by the way, the payload of a conventional tank is 60 tons.
    3. psdf
      0
      23 February 2013 02: 55
      The volume of traffic VERY significantly decreased. These are the problems for secrecy organization.
  15. 0
    22 February 2013 11: 24
    I’m wondering, does the platform not melt at startup? The temperature is not bad when the marching engines begin to work
    1. +6
      22 February 2013 11: 47
      The rocket starts, mortar launch. Before starting the engine, the lower part of the rocket is deflected to the side by (corrective) rocket engines. At start-up, a gas stream strikes past the wagon.
    2. +9
      22 February 2013 11: 49
      Quote: hort

      I’m wondering, does the platform not melt at startup? The temperature is not bad when the marching engines begin to work


      And this is the main feature of the rocket - rejected startThe powder engine pushes the rocket to a low altitude (the so-called "mortar launch"), turns on the rocket engine, tilting the rocket, and the gas jet of the rocket propulsion engine passes by cars, a container and a railroad track.By the way, the Americans could not find such or such a technical solution. The second video shows this moment at 1:18




      1. Atlon
        +1
        22 February 2013 12: 52
        AsceticThanks for the interesting video!
      2. +1
        22 February 2013 13: 17
        Thanks for clarifying! In the evening I’ll definitely watch the videos (at work there is no way to watch the video))
  16. +11
    22 February 2013 11: 24
    He witnessed an action to destroy the material and technical base of the PMZ plant in the late 90s, on which these missiles were created. An American company (Knudsen @ Knudsen) that monitored the destruction of this plant was even created and located in the center of Pavlograd. Drivers applauded with their hands, and simple hard workers cried. Pride overflows for what our parents did, and fierce hatred overwhelms, because traitors destroyed, and danced on their hind legs, for a piece of sausage. And again, Gorbachev’s ears stick out. Here is Judas.
  17. Straiser
    +3
    22 February 2013 11: 29
    During perestroika, we pissed off a lot of things ... So this is the surface part of the entire iceberg of all the problems of our defense
  18. Atlon
    +7
    22 February 2013 11: 40
    Gorbachev in court! BZHRK revive! To assure the Americans that the BZHRK is in no way against them, but against Iran and North. Korea. If they don’t believe, their problems!
    1. +4
      22 February 2013 13: 18
      Why Iraq and Korea? We now have a very real scam - anti-meteor defense wassat
  19. in reserve
    0
    22 February 2013 12: 07
    "Nuclear deterrent forces" are generally expensive, but effective. Therefore, it is not worth saving on the "nuclear shield", as they say "The miser pays twice." And even more so, such an effective complex, in such a large country as ours, it would be a sin not to use it, went deep into the country and look for its wind in the field. Or to the far east, and there America is very close.
    Yes, who invented this train, a real genius.
  20. +9
    22 February 2013 12: 24
    Quote: crossbow
    By the way, it’s very easy to clearly distinguish BZHRK from simple freight trains — just look at them from the side — some wagons (including the launch one) have three-axle or four-axle sub-car (see 1 photo) carts, and ordinary cars with two-axle carts.


    ... I’ll clarify - specially in those years special multi-axle wagons were developed for national economic cargo, for example, twin tanks and so on and so forth ... Railway tracks were fixed and heavy rails of the P75 type were put. Legend is the intensification of the freight traffic of the Ministry of Railways, including for the passage of double wagons with national freight ...
    such


    Quote: Bad
    the soil complex is just easy to calculate, the roads for them should be quite wide, without serious off-road, plus they don’t travel far from the base


    Dear colleague, who told you this nonsense? laughing
    My colleagues at PGRK, left for 500km from the base in 24 hours. At night, through sleeping cities ...
    And when they land on barges, they can sail away wherever they look ...
    And according to the statement of work, air flights are also provided for PGRK laughing

    1. +2
      22 February 2013 13: 02
      Quote: Rus2012
      My colleagues at PGRK, left for 500km from the base in 24 hours. At night, through sleeping cities ...


      Well, no one was on the march for a day, Usually a march in the dark, given the satellite situation. Our furthest PP was at a distance of 160 km from the base. This is "compact". And on "loners" already from the compact they ran even further (how much I will not say).
      1. -4
        22 February 2013 21: 30
        All these PGRKs are only MOBILE in appearance, but in reality they are no different from the stationary one. Funny - 300 km in radius from the base ... Tears. To find and fix such a PGRK is not difficult. But rail is yes ... it is REALLY serious. And it was not for nothing that they were physically destroyed in the first place. And who destroyed do you think? Gorbachev? Yeltsin? No dear, this is Putin. And now he is a HERO and DEFENDER of Russia ... considered ... Ugh!
        1. 0
          25 February 2013 02: 14
          I take the minuses as a compliment - when there is nothing to cover ...
    2. bubble82009
      0
      23 February 2013 00: 14
      who do you believe in 500 km? marching speed of poplar 35-45 km, or even lower. BZHRK cruising speed as a freight train. turns of 90 degrees with a road width of 6 meters is not for him. Poplars often had cases of tipping over on their side. in my memory of 5 trips 2 rollovers
  21. +4
    22 February 2013 12: 27
    It seems to me to develop the idea with BZHRK is a dead end, although it has a lot of advantages. It was much more interesting and more correct to develop the idea with "Courier".
    Cool, the usual truck "SovTransAvto" goes, and then bam ... and a rocket takes off from it.
    1. Oberon
      +2
      22 February 2013 18: 45
      The courier "stabbed" the bastard "combine" ...
      and the car was very beautiful ....
      that’s why the combiner in Germany is now being treated
  22. Kumachi
    +2
    22 February 2013 12: 38
    Also, the advantage of the complex can be considered successful liquid the RT-23UTTX missile.

    The author, even Wikipedia, is aware that the RT-23UTTX - solid fuel ICBMs.
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/РТ-23_УТТХ
    1. +3
      22 February 2013 13: 17
      Kumachi,

      RT-23UTTKh 15A61 had two variants of basing - mine liquid, mobile rail solid fuel .
      By the decree of the government of the USSR No. 484-166 of June 23, 1976, the Yuzhnoye design bureau was instructed to begin the full-scale development of the stationary missile complex RT-23 silo-based with Light ICBMs 15Zh44,(liquid - approx.) equipped monoblock warhead, as well as start work on the BZHRK with ICBM 15ZH52,(with solid propellant rocket engine) developed on the basis of the 15Zh44 missile.

      The RT-23UTTX missile is a three-stage tandem missile. The first stage includes Marching solid propellant rocket engine equipped with one fixed partially recessed nozzle, as well as tail and connecting compartments of a cylindrical shape.
      The second stage consists of a solid propellant solid propellant rocket propulsion system and a connecting compartment. The engine nozzle is equipped with a retractable nozzle, which allows to increase the specific impulse when the engine is operating at high altitudes while maintaining the initial dimensions of the stage. The third stage includes the marching solid propellant rocket engine, in its design similar to the engine in the second stage, and the transition compartment.
      The body is an all-wound composite, Quite durable was the case shot from PM almost point blank; the bullet was stuck but the body did not penetrate.
      The stage of breeding warheads - "pushing" scheme, placement of warheads in one tier, the engine stage - four-chamber rocket engine. Separation of steps is carried out by detonating elongated charges and a powder pressure accumulator (PAD).
      Details here
  23. +2
    22 February 2013 12: 47
    Quote: Skuto
    Cool, the usual truck "SovTransAvto" goes, and then bam ... and a rocket takes off from it.


    Cool... laughing
    But this is where all the jokes end ...
    and the problems begin -
    at least protection against RDG along the routes, imagine the situation in traffic jams with all the transport ...

    Yes, and "Courier" in the course of designing has degenerated into a completely different thing.
    Here is its carrier ...
    1. +3
      22 February 2013 14: 54
      I quote:
      "The initiative to develop the Courier, a complex with a small-sized intercontinental-range missile 15Zh59, belonged to the Chief of the Strategic Missile Forces, and MIT, with the consent of the RF Ministry of Defense Dmitry Ustinov, took up its implementation. The complex was, of course, amazing. It fit in the back of a Sovtransavto-type car trailer, in any railway wagons, it could be transported on barges, and even entered the plane.Maybe it would not give an obvious increase in efficiency.But, of course, it could take part in a retaliatory strike, since it was almost impossible to find this complex.

      The sketch project was completed in 1984. "Courier" is the world's first and only small-sized solid-propellant rocket of a mobile soil complex on a wheel drive. The launch mass of this intercontinental missile was only about 15 tons - almost 20 times less than that of the first domestic R-7 ICBM! The Kurier was only 11,2 m long and 1,36 m in diameter. The design of the new generation rocket was based on the latest developments in the field of materials and fuels, as well as a new element base in control and guidance systems and a slightly different concept of ICBM design.

      According to preliminary estimates of experts, the "Courier" was not to be inferior in its tactical and technical characteristics to its overseas counterpart. While working on the Courier complex, the Institute's staff made huge technological and design breakthroughs. These "courier" achievements later formed the basis of the Topol-M and Bulava complexes, not to mention the fact that the Start-1 space launch vehicle flies today using the Kurier control systems.

      One of the reasons that prevented the placement of the Kurier missile system in Sovtransavto vans was that in those years they could not create a reliable and small-sized communication system that would allow reliable combat control of the complex on combat patrol routes. The same thing happened with the BZHRK, but the dimensions there made it possible to place the equipment for communication (albeit not very reliable) with the OVC. In accordance with the agreements between the political leaders of the USSR and the United States, on October 6, 1991, further development of the small-sized Soviet ICBM and its overseas counterpart, the Midgetman ICBM, were discontinued. "


      Kamaz 65116 pulls 30 tone without much difficulty


      Regarding the route, any federal highway, a convoy of three to five such trucks, even under the TIR, will not cause suspicion.
      1. Oberon
        +1
        22 February 2013 18: 53
        foty not true!
        I can’t say more
  24. gladiatorakz
    +3
    22 February 2013 12: 58
    It is necessary to do immediately a complex that can be placed both on the railway and on small river-sea civil ships. Container option. To them the air defense system. Then there will be a mobile, self-sufficient, fast-mounted, long-playing system.
    1. Quiet
      +1
      23 February 2013 00: 07
      Yes, at least stick a container on a dry cargo ship and that's it. On the extreme, you can run "misinformation" ....
  25. +3
    22 February 2013 13: 01
    Quote: gladiatorakz
    and on small river-sea civil ships

    ... alas, at one time we agreed with the adversaries - to put ICBMs on surface ships ...
    Although, when they so unceremoniously left the ABM Treaty - IMHO, mono everything !!!
  26. +3
    22 February 2013 13: 43
    A bow as a sign of respect to the Soviet mega-designers! ... The design engineer himself, amazes at the complexity of the tasks in the design and manufacture of such complexes.
    It would not be bad to build at least 3-4 regiments of such complexes (3-4 trains of 3 launchers each) for a full-fledged division. But the budget is not rubber, such expensive projects can be carried out only by "optimizing" the state order for the fleet ... and it is also very much needed.
  27. 0
    22 February 2013 13: 44
    Quote: Rus2012
    Dear colleague, who told you this nonsense? laughing
    My colleagues at PGRK, left for 500km from the base in 24 hours. At night, through sleeping cities ...


    Why do you think the engineering car is ahead and checks the density of the soil, etc.? You confuse the cold and the hot, it’s me that in normal times they don’t drive equipment off-road, in wartime they can drive it where they usually don’t go, and then in extreme cases it’s not necessary to think that tractors are super all-terrain vehicles

    for if God forbid the carrier is stuck in some kind of swamp, it will immediately put an end to the launch of the rocket
  28. +3
    22 February 2013 13: 46
    I believe that with the current and projected state of the railways in Russia over the next 20 30 years, the reconstruction and use of the BZHRK is not the best option for ensuring the stability of the functioning of Russia's strategic nuclear forces, as the danger of getting off the rail of a train or a collision at a level crossing with a truck even in peacetime is very high.
    More reliable and safe in this regard is the use of Topol-type ICBMs and their modifications. And the secrecy of ICBMs on wheels can be made much easier.
    I'm not saying that the use of BZHRK provokes a likely adversary to take the entire railway network of Russia under round-the-clock surveillance and to strike at all more or less large railway junctions, bridges, etc. at the very beginning of the conflict. A large railway junction and a large city is almost always the same thing. Those. from the very beginning, the war cannot be limited in principle, but will become total and irrevocable.
    It is also quite predictable to create space-based reconnaissance and strike complexes (RUK), capable of monitoring all movements on the Russian railway, timely detecting BZHRK (with the external similarity of BZHRK to "civilian" trains, BZHRK still has a number of specific signs that make it possible to recognize them " not civilian "essence), preparing the BZHRK for launch and strike at it.
    I'm not talking about the potential for covert placement in the immediate vicinity of the railroads of a certain set of sensors (bugs) capable of detecting and recognizing BZHRK. Even with existing technologies, these tasks are completely solvable.
    In turn, Russia will have to create systems capable of combating the detection and destruction systems of the BZHRK. Nothing but the next round of the arms race BZHRK will not.
    By the way, I don’t open any America with my reasoning. All this was discussed and more than once at the most various levels even during the first BZHRK and the conclusions were about the same
    1. psdf
      +1
      23 February 2013 03: 13
      Now re-read what you wrote here, short-circuit and compare the budget for tracking and destroying 3x BZHRK.
      Relatively speaking, 12 BZHRK and the whole NAT get tired hunchback trying to cover them.
      1. +1
        23 February 2013 10: 18
        Let those who care about this problem or money in the market "calculate" and "compare". If we talk about the costs required to create countermeasures for BZHRK, then they will be much less than the possible damage from the use of BZHRK. Here and to the grandmother (i.e. to the fortuneteller) do not go. Another option is also possible, which was successfully used in the not-so-old times - to buy at the root of those politicians on whom the BZHRK will depend or not. "NATA" has enough money (or dough?) For this, as well as the corrupt politicians in Russia.
    2. 0
      28 February 2013 08: 37
      In part I agree with you. Yes, the idea of ​​such a train is good. but here the question immediately arises that we ourselves are giving rise to a missile defense system to drag to our borders, because you can drive such a train to Kaliningrad. Another option is that it could just be a bluff. they will create several military trains, and a dozen false ones, from which there will be no harm to the railway, but there will be a lot of ponte who will analyze the military there or not, then it makes sense to raise all this hype laughing
  29. Alikovo
    +1
    22 February 2013 14: 30
    their trajectory is unpredictable and this is a plus, unlike mine-based
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. +1
    22 February 2013 14: 38
    Quote: Bad
    for if God forbid the carrier is stuck in some kind of swamp, it will immediately put an end to the launch of the rocket


    Engineering and other intelligence equipment is traveling in order to know if something abnormal happened ...
    All routes for PGRK are preliminarily run at the planning stage and are repeatedly checked and completed. They don’t go anywhere ... laughing

    PGRK - stuck and stuck and pulled out like a normal technique. And emergencies happen, and for that they go - schop to get practical skills ... laughing
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. +1
    22 February 2013 14: 57
    Quote from rudolf
    to perfection P-29 (РМУ2 Sineva for BDRM-s), yes (finally!) multi-block Poplar M (Yars). And it's all! God only knows how long the trial operation of the first Borey-Mace will last, but this complex will not be ready for the first combat duty yet. Work on heavy missile complexes of mine-based work has just begun. We generally have nothing for the mines. Let the Ascetic correct me, but in my opinion to put in the mines of Poplar, Yarsa, this is to some extent a perversion!


    Why is this? And "Liner" - the further development of Sineva? ...
    As I understand it, the first complex with a mace was put into service at the Yuri Dolgoruky nuclear submarine and, at present, in an experimental database.
    Satan's heavy missiles, as they stood and will stand until the end of resources (before replacement). The heavy one is being built, and launched into a series (the so-called parallel process, what goes on without change is manufactured, what is created again is tested, brought up) Poplars and Yars will stand in the mines where they were supposed to be (light complexes).
    What's the question?
  34. +1
    22 February 2013 15: 04
    Where to do, who will do and from what.
    Let me explain.
    Academicians Utkin, Pilyugin are not alive, the rest are retired.
    Equipment (including unique) was cut into scrap metal.
    The electronic components were Soviet, with military acceptance. By the way, with the acceptance of the VP (until the collapse of the USSR) there was not a single microprocessor.
    Even in "Buran", in the information exchange system between the board and the ground (code MANCHESTER-2), the military banned the use of domestic LSIs and everything was created on discrete elements. As for the imported configuration, the unsuccessful launch of 4 satellites (and not only them) showed the reliability of "foreign" ERIs and the corruption of stakeholders.
    Sneak:
    1. On the windows of the cars there were darkened windows, and the train was pulled not by two (as usual), but by three electric locomotives.
    2. Someone was leaking information (in the era of the lack of mobile phones) - there were attempts by terrorists to seize the composition.
    Guys, let's live the reality.
  35. +1
    22 February 2013 15: 17
    Quote: gregor6549
    By the way, I don’t open any America with my reasoning. All this was discussed and more than once at the most various levels even during the first BZHRK and the conclusions were about the same


    The findings were ...
    But, okay, the situation has changed.
    Firstly, the YABB ceiling is limited. The adversary is limited from above to 1500 pieces. And under these conditions, he cannot once again "hit the squares" at random. If, at the same time, the carrier baskets are also transferred to the BZHRK, hemorrhoids will be added to it over the roof ...

    Quote: Skuto
    According to preliminary estimates of experts, the "Courier" should not have been inferior in its tactical and technical characteristics to the overseas analogue

    Dear Skuto, I will clarify, in your pictures - "Speed" - Eurostrategic RSD, the planned replacement of "PionEru" hi
    1. +1
      22 February 2013 21: 40
      thank you
      I agree, there is no photo on the network, but as far as is known in terms of dimensions, it should have been inferior to the same 15P666 Complex Speed.
      Length - 11.2 m
      Case Diameter - 1.36 m
  36. +1
    22 February 2013 15: 30
    Dear Rus, The situation, of course, has changed, but not at all for the better for Russia and it is unlikely that it will be possible to correct it with the next "Chinese races" or trying to "cheat" the foe. And all the achieved restrictions will immediately go down the drain if a potential enemy sees that someone is trying to violate the "status quo". After all, he is also monitoring the situation and it is unlikely that he will be able to carry it out on the chaff. And all attempts to disguise strategic nuclear weapons as innocent sea containers or civilian trains are nothing more than a primitive "chaff" designed for simpletons and idiots. The enemy still needs to be respected, otherwise the repetition of 41 is inevitable.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      0
      22 February 2013 23: 26
      Have you ever seen a marine container ship? Look at the internet there ...
    2. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 58
      Almost taken away ... You write in Russian, from and to ... Putting a comma after the word rus, and not putting it anywhere else, I note that this is a stupid provatsuha ".... or, simply put, a guy is sitting and poops for himself ...
  37. AK-47
    0
    22 February 2013 15: 49
    15P961 Molodets - military railway missile system with ICBM 15ZH61 (RT-23 UTTKh)

    Mass production of rockets was launched at the Pavlograd Mechanical Plant. Production stopped in 1991.

    Maximum firing range - 10 100 km.
    The length of the rocket in the TPK is 22,6 m.
    The full length of the rocket is 23,3 m.
    The maximum diameter of the case is 2,4 m.
    The launch mass of the rocket is 104,5 tons.
    Mass of warheads - 4,05 tons.
    The mass of the rocket with a launch container is 126 tons.

    The mass of the first stage is 53,7 tons.
    The length of the first stage is 9,7 m.
    The diameter of the housing of the first stage is 2,4 m.

    Launch car weight is over 200 tons.
    The length of the railway launcher is 23,6 m.
    The width of the launcher is 3,2 m.
    The height of the launcher is 5,0 m.

    Terrible, beautiful, sorry.
    1. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 52
      Everything is beautiful, only it’s not a BZHRK launch, it’s SPU ....
  38. Larus
    +1
    22 February 2013 17: 41
    I really hope that such complexes will again take up duty without any restrictions.
    Given that a potential adversary in space has a huge number of spy satellites, poplars alone are not enough for us, but they are the most vulnerable and easy to find, and even easier to destroy.
    I hope that all the old-timers involved in the coup and the collapse of the country will have time to stand trial, before which the people will officially pronounce their verdict.
    And the fifth column will be identified in childhood and treated (as is done in America).
  39. +2
    22 February 2013 20: 42
    How much evil did this Judas Gorbachev bring? Thanks to this TV ... and we fell behind in everything we were proud of, his "fifth column" students continue their work. And I have a question, when will he be judged? And the BZHRK needs to be brought into operation as quickly as possible and put on alert.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      0
      22 February 2013 23: 28
      More precisely, he is not entirely Judas, he was stupid and with high conceit, and Paradise led her there, her kingdom of heaven.
  40. +2
    22 February 2013 21: 14
    There is one fundamental FALSE in the article - that these complexes HAVE DEVELOPED THEIR RESOURCE. This is an obvious and deliberately deliberate lie in order to "shield" people who have taken the FOOLEST (treacherous in relation to their (?) Country) decision to destroy them. Now they are trying to whitewash, but when the snout is in fluff, it will not be possible to whitewash. Only for ONE this decision of Putin should be posted on a pole ... And promises to do something by some 20m year are pure manilovism to calm people down. In my opinion, the current level of Russian designers simply will not allow solving such a problem in PRINCIPLE. The gut is thin ...
    1. Andrey58
      0
      22 February 2013 21: 49
      Quote: I think so
      to "shield" people who have taken the FOOLEST (treacherous in relation to their (?) country) decision to destroy them.

      Interestingly, on the basis of what did you conclude that the decision was stupid?
      1. Andrey58
        0
        22 February 2013 22: 16
        Well it’s clear that minus. But in fact?
      2. 0
        25 February 2013 02: 09
        When a military unit, which can still be operated instead of at least preserving the DESTRUCT, is in your opinion that it’s not stupidity, but what then? Perhaps in your opinion it is SMART. But then we have different concepts. And the main sign of stupidity and betrayal is that your ENEMY demanded it and you did it.
        1. Festaval
          0
          31 March 2013 22: 43
          Our enemy is too close ...... In any case, do not do what the enemy requires ...
          My opinion is the rest is self-salvation ....
  41. Andrey58
    0
    22 February 2013 21: 34
    The BZHRK concept is quite reasonable and correct. But not in the form in which they were made in the USSR. To stuff a hundred-ton rocket into a carriage creates a lot of problems for yourself. The mass of the "railroad" rocket should not exceed the carrying capacity of a standard freight car. Then all these tricks with additional wheelsets and locomotives will not be needed. And let this missile have not 10, but 4 or even only 1 warhead. Better to make more trains, but inconspicuous.
    As for the alleged impossibility for the Americans to track the BZHRK, for some reason everyone forgot about such a thing as electronic intelligence. American satellites are quite able to take information from almost any of our communication channels (especially from departmental Russian Railways). BZHRK went as a letter train with the corresponding radio exchange of duty on stations. There were very few literary trains, so it was quite easy to accurately track the route. Well, having established the route, it remains only by means of optical reconnaissance to detect a train with three locomotives. Someone does not believe that now the Americans and it can?
    But detecting an ordinary commodity will be much more difficult.
    1. psdf
      +1
      23 February 2013 03: 18
      Damn ... And the men don’t know (s)
      I mean - entire design bureaus and institutes worked and did not know ...
  42. 0
    22 February 2013 22: 12
    I look at the pictures and my heart bleeds! Try to restore now! crying
  43. 0
    22 February 2013 23: 27


    This is not counting the sea-based. And air based.
    With the resuscitation of the Scalpel, it is quite possible to live.

    www.youtube.com/embed/DCpO9Sx-tTM?wmode=opaque&wmode=opaque


    And then something does not appear in the video.
  44. +2
    22 February 2013 23: 34
    If the "Scalpel" is reanimated, then you can live. winked
    Apart from sea and air.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/DCpO9Sx-tTM?wmode=opaque&wmode=opaque
    1. psdf
      0
      23 February 2013 03: 22
      Good such a video.
  45. bubble82009
    +2
    23 February 2013 00: 15
    when I was on duty at the BZHRK
  46. MG42
    +3
    23 February 2013 01: 39
    One of the most serious blows to Russian missile trains was the collapse of the Soviet Union. Because of it, the Yuzhmash plant, which assembled complexes and missiles for them, remained on the territory of sovereign Ukraine.
    Because of this, not only the scalpel and the BZHRK ceased to exist, but soon the rocket < > which is also associated with the Yuzhmash plant whose service life is coming to an end, it is a pity such a project.
    1. +1
      23 February 2013 02: 35
      They must be reunited. All decent people even in Russia, even in Ukraine think so.
      1. Festaval
        0
        31 March 2013 22: 38
        Yeah, some still crap Russia, especially from the west. Himself in St. Petersburg broke the pretzel UNA_UNSO. I think so, let them figure it out in themselves and then they will say ... Who is their friend Russia or the State Yoke ...
        Russia once saved itself and the west from the Mongols, where they (the Mongols) ....... in jo ....
        Sooner or later the same will happen with the USA ...
    2. +1
      23 February 2013 12: 28
      I remember the tears in the eyes of Muscovites when they sent equipment to Russia - the plant was making a control system. The general director wanted to "grab" the software - the "military" interfered. But there were realists in the ministry, they did not allow it. Although we cooperate in the field of space.
  47. pinecone
    0
    23 February 2013 08: 48
    "MAY be assembled ALREADY by 2020"! A terrific assumption - not "just", but "already." After seven years. May be. ..
  48. 0
    23 February 2013 11: 50
    yes it’s easy to break sometimes it’s not necessary to think, but to build .....
    1. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 30
      depending on whom to break ...
  49. -2
    23 February 2013 12: 12
    Offer to designers. Two or three speed rocket. This means that it can be decomposed into two or three cars, and assembled immediately before launch is automated on locks. Total 71t * 3 - serving automation, even 10 * 3t, ​​it turns out, the rocket can be made up to 180t. There is a different approach. To transport fuel and oxidizer in tanks and to fill before start-up. Well, if you mastered refueling in the air, you can deal with refueling on a train ...
    1. 0
      23 February 2013 15: 20
      Not okay No. too long will be the time to bring the rocket to combat readiness.
      It is not enough to assemble a rocket as you say "locked", there is still a lot of pre-flight technical work to be done.
      In addition, the reliability of such a rocket will be lower than if the rocket was completely assembled and controlled in the factory.
      It is necessary to reduce the weight of the rocket itself, this is reasonable and quite achievable.
      How long do you think the process of refueling a rocket takes? This is not 10 minutes. And in the event of a threat, the launch will need to be completed as soon as possible, until the installation is covered.
    2. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 10
      Do you know anything about readiness, Tech. or about the Fight .... To divide the rocket, and then assemble it all according to the readiness, you still add a couple of three cars, plus a lot of time for maintenance and service + spare parts, I don’t count people for this technological equipment .. ..
    3. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 12
      and most importantly, the solid-fuel rocket in the complex, almost (who knows, understand)
  50. 0
    23 February 2013 15: 19
    Sergey. Heptyl and aviation kerosene are two big differences.
  51. +1
    23 February 2013 22: 41
    Damn normal! When I looked at the photo with the torn infrastructure... At first everything was gouged out, under the “sensitive guidance of potential friends”, and now a talk has begun that everything needs to be restored anew, but the campaign is aimed only at allocating money for “development” to the next “Serdyukov and co.” ! winked what
  52. user3970
    +1
    24 February 2013 00: 15
    Sorry for interfering in the conversation of smart people. But somewhere in open sources I read that the brilliant Sakharov (one of the developers of the hydrogen bomb) proposed that the government bury several hydrogen irretrievable warheads underwater off the coast of the United States (and, I would add, Great Britain). Maybe this idea has not become outdated over the past 50 years? Is everything ingenious simple?
  53. spok
    +1
    24 February 2013 03: 28
    The whole world of violence we will destroy
    To the bottom, and then -
    We are ours, we will build a new world:
    Who was nothing, that will become everything!

    first we will break everything and then we will rebuild from scratch, but it is unlikely that we will be able to achieve what was before and the people will bleed
    All technologies for the manufacture of high-precision components have been lost; there are no milling and turners, and the wear and tear of existing equipment has reached its peak
    this can be achieved, but not with our pack of corrupt officials and authorities

    The surprise inspection, carried out for the first time in 20 years, revealed serious systemic deficiencies in the combat readiness of the Armed Forces.
    In almost all tested units, operational duty officers showed poor skills in communicating signals through automated combat control systems, RIA Novosti cites a statement by the Chief of the General Staff, Army General Valery Gerasimov, made during a conference call.
    A surprise check of the combat readiness of individual units of the Armed Forces was carried out on Tuesday. It was the first in the last 20 years and was carried out in the troops of the Central and Southern Military Districts, Airborne Forces and military transport aviation.
    Army General Gerasimov noted the uncertain actions of the units on duty when receiving an order to bring the units to the highest levels of combat readiness. This was especially noticeable at the command of the Airborne Forces and at the 201st military base in Tajikistan.
    The training of graduates of training centers, especially drivers and driver mechanics, turned out to be low. As a result, military equipment broke down already at the exit from the parks, not to mention marches and combat training missions. This check revealed in the 28th motorized rifle brigade of the Central Military District.
    According to the head of the General Staff, soldiers and officers shoot poorly from standard weapons, which is especially evident in the example of tankers and crews of infantry fighting vehicles. The General Staff was especially alarmed by the weak personal training of military school graduates of 2012, who with their skills should set an example and train personnel.
    Gerasimov promised that from now on such sudden combat readiness checks will take place regularly. The head of the Ministry of Defense has already made a decision on this.
  54. 0
    26 February 2013 12: 42
    It will take a couple of years to restore at least one service base. Destroy not build...
  55. 0
    26 February 2013 12: 59
    Good everyone! No matter how it was in the distant 90s, what’s done is done! But this type of weaponry will not be restored to the same scale as before, but it will be restored! But the question about the newly emerging need to strengthen the rail bed is a big question! 15 years for this technology is not a service life, just like for the canvas itself!
  56. mshl
    +1
    26 February 2013 14: 37
    Quote: Andrey58

    Well it’s clear that minus. But in fact?

    But in fact, some of the complexes “smelled of factory paint” practically when they were laid up, and they were not soon to be 15 years old.
    And by the way, the last launch was a 10-year-old rocket, the same one in the video, it arrived
    on Kura "in a peg". The Permians were shooting. After that, they (the missiles) extended their service life to 15. Afaik.
    1. Festaval
      0
      31 March 2013 22: 17
      I am a Permyak, I studied and served there.... What is left there is Hiroshima.... A couple of years later, my institute is Nagasaki...
  57. saryman
    0
    31 March 2013 10: 35
    That’s why these BZHRKs generally had to be disposed of; they could simply be left for preservation until better times. After all, how much time and money was spent on creating these complexes, and how much will be spent on creating new ones. Glory to this invulnerable complex!!!
  58. Festaval
    0
    31 March 2013 21: 56
    First, Gorbachev concluded an agreement with us, under which the BZHRKs do not leave their PPD. The troops said that he welded the wheels to the rails for us.
    Then they rushed, we need to organize the supply of spare parts, and 30-40% of spare parts are from the CIS. And half of these CIS countries joined NATO...
    Well, the ministers decided “that our BZHRK only reduces stability in the oblasts”...
  59. Festaval
    0
    31 March 2013 22: 04
    I was also on duty. in Perm, DBSP...
  60. 0
    April 10 2013 13: 30
    Tear off the hands of the one who decided to dispose of this complex fool
  61. Festaval
    0
    April 11 2013 09: 57
    no, not hands. The thing in your pants that needs to be torn off...
  62. Festaval
    0
    April 11 2013 09: 58
    It's not enough to tear off your hands...
  63. +2
    4 July 2013 21: 18
    if we have such developed PGRKs, then the point of using ZhDRKs automatically disappears.... only from the point of view of camouflage
  64. patriot0110
    0
    28 December 2013 07: 08
    all the trains were destroyed by pitunim or Serdyukov’s scum! both!