Will the Polish “Golden Eagle” peck the Russian “Sushka” or choke?

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Will the Polish “Golden Eagle” peck the Russian “Sushka” or choke?

Theory is a wonderful thing. It allows you to do such things with your mind (or madness) ... However, in today's plot there will be both the first and the second in abundance.

In general, actually, why did the excitement suddenly start? And with information from our eternal “friends”, the gentry. There, you know, “ganbu” (more precisely, “hanbu”) are shouting and want to imprison the minister. The former Minister of Defense, Matt Blaszczak, who since December last year is no longer a minister, but a simple deputy in the Sejm of Poland.



Why is that so? Well, it was like bad luck: we bought new luxury planes, but... it’s not the devil in the details, but the Apocalypse in the individual Air Force.


It all started recently. In the summer of 2022, when the aforementioned Blaszczak burst into hysterics about the fact that the Russians would soon go to war in Poland, and the country’s Air Force was in an indecent state. By the way, he was partially right: throughout the 90s, Poland, which jumped out of the ATS, did not acquire a single new combat aircraft. Yes, some were purchased on the used equipment market, a MiG-29 from the Czech Republic in 1995 and from Germany in 2004. And these MiGs, along with a small number of Su-22s, were Poland’s air shield until 2004, when F-16 Block 52+ were purchased. Naturally, not new.

Well, in 2019, Poland’s application to purchase the F-35 was approved. In 2020, the Polish government signed an agreement for the supply of 32 aircraft, and, apparently to celebrate, decided to transfer all its MiG-29s to Ukraine for disposal. But since the F-35 is a slow business, the Poles did not want to stay after the famous bare-sky events began, and therefore began to look for where they could buy it urgently and cheaper.

In general, there was a certain reason for the disposal of the 29s; it became almost impossible to obtain spare parts for them from Russia, and it must be said that the Polish government made simply titanic efforts to this.

On September 16, 2022, the Polish Ministry of Defense and the South Korean company Korea Aerospace Industries signed two contracts for the construction and supply aviation technology. A total of 48 FA-50 aircraft were ordered in two versions.

The first contract provided for the supply of 12 fighters in the FA-50GF modification, for which the Poles paid about $700 million ($58,3 million each). The planes were delivered to Poland at the end of last year.

The second part of the contract concerns a personal modification of the FA-50PL, created to meet the requirements of the Polish Air Force. 36 vehicles were contracted for a total cost of $2,3 billion (about $64 million per unit). Deliveries should begin in a few years.

Many people (including in Poland) asked questions like “What the hell?” and why can’t you purchase already studied and tested F-16s? With which there will definitely be no problems?

Air Force General Ireneusz Nowak responded:
“Buying combat aircraft is not like buying cars. These are years of waiting. And we have the opportunity to receive the FA-50 almost immediately. In addition, American fighters are three times more expensive.”


Perhaps this is exactly the case when the saying about “expensive but cute, but cheap but rotten” has a certain sinister meaning, but there is no need to rush.

But Polish officials were in a hurry to the Ministry of Defense. Either the SVO hit everyone in the brain, or there were problems with them, but in reality, today in Poland many people say that the fighters were bought in a terrible hurry, as if tank The columns of the Russian army were not heading towards Kharkov, but towards Warsaw.

Well, plus the eternal army mess, fierce and indestructible. The Polish Ministry of Defense, rushing to conclude agreements, did not even bother to request specifications from the Air Force, that is, to ask what kind of aircraft they actually needed?

That is, if at that time the Indians had sold Tejas, they would have bought it! It's cheap...

The premiere of the Polish pilot in the cockpit of the FA-50 took place on November 16, 2023. A short flight took place, which was immediately dubbed in the press “historical».


However, on April 15 of this year, the Polish publication Onet reported that flights on Korean fighters had been suspended since the beginning of this year, and today these aircraft “represent more of a problem than a benefit for the Polish Air Force.”

Why is this happening so suddenly? Formally, the reason was stated to be the lack of any certificates from the manufacturer. Well, yes, of course, planes cannot take off without a certificate, this is well known. And you simply cannot go into battle without a certificate. But in fact, the answer is much more interesting: Polish pilots adapt very poorly to Korean aircraft. Despite the fact that the Golden Eagle is maximally standardized with NATO products, a Korean aircraft and an American aircraft are far from the same thing.

But the situation is further complicated by the fact that the eternal chaos of the Polish military department has led to the fact that Polish officials “forgot” to order the simulators with which any training begins. Yes, they were later ordered, but they will arrive no earlier than 2025. The same thing happened with ejection simulators.

Plus aircraft maintenance, and this is a serious problem.


Training technical and engineering personnel in Poland is a long process, and sending aircraft for maintenance to the other side of the world is not the easiest task. We are generally silent about major repairs.

By the way, similar things are happening with the South Korean K-2 tanks purchased by Poland. The Polish technical staff turned out to be completely unprepared to work with such modern and advanced technology. And in order to solve this problem, a decent amount of time must pass, and who you can sincerely sympathize with is the Polish technicians, who were attacked by Abrams, Leopards, and Black Panthers over the course of seven years. And repair it - I don’t want to, but I have to. Despite the fact that Polish mechanics never went further than the T-72M.

So what kind of “miracle” did the Poles acquire? “A suitcase without a handle” or, after all, a combat aircraft capable of solving the problems of defending the Polish sky from... However, we will return to this a little later.

The T-50/A-50 Golden Eagle was originally conceived as a combat trainer and light attack aircraft.


The developer is the South Korean consortium Korean Aerospace Industries, which was formed by the South Korean companies Samsung, Hyundai, Daewoo and the American company Lockheed Martin in 1998.

The aircraft is a modified version of the KTX-2 combat training aircraft from Samsung, almost 100% equipped with American electronics from GEC-Marconi Avionics, Honeywell, Smiths Industries, Rockwell Collins, Marconi, Parker, Messier-Dowty, Raytheon and Hamilton Standard.

The engine is American, bypass turbojet F404-402 from General Electric, equipped with an electronic digital automatic control system FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) and a diagnostic system.

The aircraft's avionics consist of a multifunctional AN/APG-67 radar, an inertial navigation system with correction based on data from the NAVSTAR space radio navigation system, a communications system, onboard computers of flight control systems and weapons, as well as electronic warfare equipment.

The armament of the combat version of the A-50 aircraft includes a 20-mm three-barreled aircraft cannon. The suspended weapons are located on seven hardpoints: one ventral, four underwing and two at the wing tips. It is planned to place the following set of weapons on the nodes:
- AIM-9 air-to-air guided missiles;
- AGM-65 air-to-ground guided missiles;
- guided and unguided aerial bombs and clusters.

The total weight of weapons on suspension is up to 3 kg.


Here I would like to stop and ask: is this serious? Is this the Golden Eagle? In the image and likeness of the “Fighting Falcon” F-16?

This is the Golden Sparrow. Full similarity and analogue of our Yak-130 and their Aermacchi M-346. A combat training aircraft capable of playing, in case of emergency, the role of a light fighter or a very light attack aircraft.

And this is where the Poles decided to fight ours? It's actually kind of insulting.

Of course, they worked more carefully on the combat modification, which they called FA-50: they equipped it with a Link 16 standard communication system, an EL/M-2032 radar (not an AFAR), an additional radar radiation warning system, and added night vision devices. The mass of the combat load was increased to 4 kg. Raytheon and Northrop Grumman said they could adapt the active phased array radars found on the F-500 Fighting Falcon to the FA-50.

Funny? Yes.

Let's not even talk about the Su-35. This is too much.


Su-30SM2. AL-41F1S engines from the Su-35S with thrust vector control. Modernized radar, part of the avionics is unified with the Su-35S avionics. The range of weapons used has been expanded. In general, EVERYTHING that can be hung on an airplane is in it.

The speed is 500 km/h higher. The combat radius is 500 km larger. The ceiling is 3 meters higher.
Armament... if in tons, then 6 tons more. Well, 12 suspension points versus 7.

It’s hard to imagine that the Golden Sparrow can actually compete with the Su-30. Well, except maybe the heroism and courage of the Polish pilots, somehow nothing else comes to mind.

“The T-50 aircraft has gained great popularity among pilots, and according to a number of parameters, it is considered by experts as one of the best combat training aircraft in the world. The T-50 aircraft entered service with the Republic of Korea Air Force in 2005, and by the beginning of 2011, more than 60 aircraft had been received.”

Yes, we can be happy for those who will study on this plane. Perhaps this is so, and the T-50 is truly an excellent combat trainer.

You know, I want to dive into history, 90 years ago. In our country, in service with the Red Army Air Force, there was simply an excellent training aircraft, the U-2, which gave the way to the skies for millions of pilots. An excellent training aircraft. And when the war came, the U-2 became the Po-2, a night bomber.


It was not because of a good life that 3-4 bombs of 100 kg each were hung on a small airplane and it quietly dragged them towards the enemy at a speed of 120 km/h. And due to the low speed, he dropped them very accurately.

But has the Po-2 become a full-fledged combat aircraft? Yes and no. It caused such damage that not every normal bomber could. But a meeting with any enemy fighter usually ended sadly.

So the “Golden Eaglet” looks the same against the background of the Su-30 and, even more so, the Su-35.

It’s difficult to say what the Polish Ministry of Defense was thinking about, but they organized a quality madhouse. Okay, five types of tanks (to the three listed above you can add our T-72M and their PT-91 “Twardi”, which is different from ours), four types of self-propelled guns (South Korean, again, Polish, Czech, Soviet), five types of MLRS ( Korean, American, Polish, Czech, Soviet) and so on, so now we also need aircraft “in assortment”. So that technical brain cancer affects all branches of the Polish armed forces.

In general, it would be worth looking at how things are going with the neighbors. The Ukrainian Armed Forces have created simply a masterpiece hodgepodge of what they received from all over Europe, from old Soviet to old American equipment. And how this hodgepodge is gradually migrating back to Europe, because in Ukraine they simply don’t know how to repair it. How centers are created in the Baltic states, Romania, how excellent German self-propelled guns go to Germany...

No, it is clear that sooner or later the Koreans will train the required number of engineers and technicians, the pilots will learn to fly (well, it’s not the Koreans who will fly the planes back to them for modernization), and so on. But this is not a question even tomorrow.

But even if maintenance and training issues are resolved, the issue of efficiency still remains. If war with Russia is on the Poles' agenda, what can two light fighter regiments do? Especially when you consider that Russia has similar aircraft in combat units, and in general, what kind of knightly nonsense is this? The Poles should be well aware that they will not pull the MiG-29 out of storage for the sake of their use of Korean miracle aircraft.

The fact that the Su-30 and Su-35 (especially) will shoot the FA-50 from long distances is understandable. Radars see further, missiles fly further, electronic warfare is also clearly more powerful. Speed ​​and altitude are also on the side of Russian cars; we are silent about maneuverability, because the variable thrust vector is a strong bonus. This is short, there may be more nuances, but what is there is more than enough to understand that the Poles were clearly in a hurry.

If you hurry, as you know, you will make people laugh. But for some reason the Polish electorate is not amused: enormous amounts of money have been spent, and the benefit from them is more than doubtful. Relations with Russia are not getting better, but the combat effectiveness of the Polish army is somehow not growing. Especially the combat effectiveness of the Air Force.

Maybe it really is useful to imprison ministers from time to time? It is clear that the “Golden Chicken” is clearly not up to par with “Drying”. He'll definitely choke.
86 comments
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  1. 0
    April 22 2024 04: 22
    And once upon a time the Poles built their own airplanes, and they were quite good for their time. And even under Soviet power, they made good airplanes and helicopters of Soviet designers. It turns out that the Poles have been crushed, they are degrading, a lot of energy is spent on Russophobia.
    1. +5
      April 22 2024 04: 48
      The woman had no worries, so the woman bought a pig! laughing
      1. +4
        April 22 2024 06: 07
        Quote from Uncle Lee
        The woman had no worries, so the woman bought a pig!

        How is A.S. I can’t remember Pushkin! "You shouldn't chase after cheap things, priest"
      2. +16
        April 22 2024 10: 35
        Quote: Uncle Lee
        The woman had no worries, so the woman bought a pig! laughing

        It’s amazing, the whole article is permeated with deep pain for the Polish Air Force. Why did it happen? Or did I imagine it?
        We should talk about our aviation, but no, we are all about foreign aviation. How bad everything is there. Are we doing very well?
        But in fact, we should be happy that the Poles today have failures in the Air Force. And God grant that this situation in the Polish Air Force continues indefinitely.
    2. 0
      April 22 2024 04: 49
      Quote: kalakutas
      And once upon a time the Poles built their own airplanes, and they were quite good for their time. And even under Soviet rule, they made good airplanes and helicopters of Soviet designers. It turns out that the Poles have been crushed, they are degrading,
      recourse No, they simply couldn’t survive in the EU, they don’t need competitors there, so they were forced to destroy their aircraft production. request
      1. +4
        April 22 2024 06: 17
        were forced to destroy their aircraft production
        It seems there was only An-2 assembly there
        1. +8
          April 22 2024 07: 49
          It seems there was only An-2 assembly there
          And production, full cycle. Both the production of the Mi-2 and their own Iskra training aircraft were carried out despite the Czech L-29 and L-39
          1. 0
            April 22 2024 07: 53
            And production, full cycle
            A full cycle is when from the Pullman to the finished product. Pullman was located in the USSR, and the production of some components was also located in the USSR. The engine was assembled in Perm (then in Poland from Soviet components).
            1. +16
              April 22 2024 07: 54
              this is when from Pullman
              What is a Pullman? Old Jew?
              1. +9
                April 22 2024 07: 56
                What is a Pullman? Old Jew?
                Kuhlman wink
                1. +6
                  April 22 2024 11: 04
                  [quoteWhat is a Pullman? Old Jew?][/quote]
                  Car
                  1. +10
                    April 22 2024 11: 07
                    What is a Pullman? Old Jew?
                    Don't make fun of my keyboard wink
        2. +3
          April 22 2024 13: 43
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          It seems there was only An-2 assembly there

          MiG-15/17, Mi-2
    3. +6
      April 22 2024 05: 58
      kalakutas - were you making such a bad joke? Our military constantly complained about the low quality of assembly of the licensed MiGs that we received from the Poles! Our engineers and inspectors constantly went there, to Poland, to teach the Poles how to assemble military equipment with high quality and not anyhow!!!
    4. +5
      April 22 2024 13: 28
      Quote: kalakutas
      And once upon a time the Poles built their own planes, and they were pretty good for their time

      As an example of the PZL-37A / B, the aircraft was quite up to par for its time. TS-11 "Iskra" is quite a good training vehicle, which the Poles produced in defiance of the Czech L-29 and L-39...
  2. +7
    April 22 2024 05: 10

    But has the Po-2 become a full-fledged combat aircraft? Yes and no. It caused such damage that not every normal bomber could. But a meeting with any enemy fighter usually ended sadly.

    No need.
    Any skillful udvas pilot for the “free hunters” on Messers presented a huge problem precisely because of its low speed and the diabolical maneuverability of the biplane. It was possible to knock down a lung only with a swoop, on an unexpected one. And if there was no unexpected person, then the Po-2 began to perform “miracles on turns,” and he could spin them much longer, thanks to the economical engine. Due to the low speed, I also had to drop my own, with the risk of breaking the flow and splashing, besides, the udvas always flew near the ground. The Germans often simply spat and left to look for an easier target.
    1. +4
      April 22 2024 05: 40
      Quote: Kuroneko
      Any skillful udvas pilot for the “free hunters” on Messers presented a huge problem precisely because of its low speed

      You are not right. U-2 could not do anything to Messer, so this is a one-goal game. As in a hunt, the hunter can get hurt and even die, but this is rare and the hunter’s foolishness.
      1. +5
        April 22 2024 07: 51
        U-2 could not do anything to Messer
        He had no such task. And the main operating mode of the U-2 is night, and the Germans had very few night fighters with radars.
      2. +5
        April 22 2024 11: 06
        Messer's stall speed was higher than the maximum speed of the U-2. Therefore, it was difficult for Messer to chase him, he was very maneuverable. The Germans used mainly one technique on Messer - a falcon strike. They climbed above the attacked target, dived, hit, went down and again to the vertical, gained altitude again. Ours, even on fighters, could not compete with them. The Germans tried not to get into the “dog dump” maneuver battle with fighters. On the horizontal planes they obviously lost to our fighters. The U-2 pilots pressed themselves to the ground and went into a horizontal maneuver. Low speed and high maneuverability helped the U-2. The Messer did not have enough height to go up, there was a high probability of crashing into the ground. And the Messer could not race horizontally, the stall speed was high, he would simply slip past the U-2. So just suddenly, from an ambush, or in a group, drive and shoot the U-2.
        1. -4
          April 22 2024 13: 41
          Quote: fiberboard
          And the Messer could not race horizontally, the stall speed was high, he would simply slip past the U-2. So just suddenly, from an ambush, or in a group, drive and shoot the U-2.

          You have written non-science fiction. There was no need for any ambushes. The U-2 presented absolutely no problems for any fighter of that time.
      3. +7
        April 22 2024 13: 45
        Quote: bya965
        You are not right. U-2 could not do anything to Messer, so this is a one-goal game. As in a hunt, the hunter can get hurt and even die, but this is rare and the hunter’s foolishness.
        The Po-2 is the only biplane to officially win a battle with a jet aircraft: on April 15, 1953, an American Lockheed F-94 Starfire combat aircraft was lost while attempting to intercept a Korean Po-2. The fighter was forced to reduce its speed below 161 km/h while trying to take a position behind the Po-2, which led to its fall to the ground and the biplane’s “victory”.
  3. +30
    April 22 2024 05: 11
    belay
    This author is interesting to observe in “dynamics”, although it, dynamics, moves constantly and in opposite directions.
    For example:
    22.04.2024: “The fact that the Su-30 and Su-35 (especially) will shoot at the FA-50 from long distances is understandable. Radars see further, missiles fly further, electronic warfare is also clearly more powerful. Speed ​​and altitude are also on the side of Russian vehicles, about maneuverability is silent, because the variable thrust vector is a strong bonus. This is short, there may be more nuances, but what is there is more than enough to understand that the Poles were clearly in a hurry."
    24.02.2022: “we have in fact: the half-dead air defense system of Ukraine could not oppose anything to Russian aircraft and missiles. Now the air over Ukraine is at the complete disposal of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and we can seriously propose to stop even the appearance of resistance, because the assigned tasks will still be completed
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to provide absolutely any sane resistance. Individual units can still pretend to be something heroic, but basically the Ukrainian Armed Forces will flee as they did in other situations.
    The West will not help Ukraine. It is obvious. Sanctions, super-sanctions, mega-sanctions. Ukraine is not a NATO country, so no one will stand up for it. And there is no infrastructure in Ukraine that would allow the effective use of NATO forces."
    24.03.2022.: “It’s already been a month since we have been monitoring the progress of the special operation on the territory of Ukraine. Today it is clear that, as some predicted, it was not an easy ride. Long and bloody work lies ahead. Perhaps not for one month.”
    29.03.2022: “Of course, in terms of technical equipment, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are still beggars, although, of course, they look cooler than, say, Romania or Bulgaria, but for the most part they are also armed with the remnants of the Soviet heritage. Of course, the heritage is being modernized, but at such a pace , which is just sad to watch."

    IMHO, a short conclusion: about “of course”, “it’s clear”, “obviously” - it’s time to stop with categorical statements.

    According to SABZH: FA50, aka “Gap Filler”, is intended to “fill the gap” between Mig29/Su22 and F35. Training/shock - a cheap way to carry TSA on the enemy's heads. Why not the F16 - because there is no configuration suitable for the Poles on the market, but the Koreans are ready to give it away right away.
    And “if anything happens” - the F35, F30, Rafale and Eurofighters and, probably, the F22 will fight with the Su15 and Su35. With AWACS support and other goodies. This “dishonest method of war” led to the fact that the F16, for example, in Desert Storm, did not even manage to shoot down anyone...
    1. +7
      April 22 2024 05: 44
      Quote: Wildcat
      This author is interesting to observe in “dynamics”, although it, dynamics, moves constantly and in opposite directions.

      Who remembers the old - that eye is out!
      We must be aware and meet the demands of the moment.
      1. +24
        April 22 2024 06: 08
        Exactly.
        So it was like this:
        1. At first, the Poles forgot to buy planes that they could fly, and weapons and simulators for them. This has never happened before, but here it is...
        And they went to drink Zubrowka and not have a snack.

        2. Then the Koreans decided: “We sold the Golden Eagle to four countries normally, but to the fifth - Poland - we should do something bad, sell incomplete aircraft. Yes, this arms trade has gone to hell.”
        And they went to eat kim-chi and dogs.

        3. All this could not pass without consequences and there was not a single chance of not getting into VO. But! The Poles decided to make things worse (see point 1) - and they decided to fight on the training ground with Su35 and Su30, and therefore they were ridiculed at VO.

        Sources unknown, but absolutely reliable!
        1. +4
          April 22 2024 09: 33
          .It is interesting to observe this author in “dynamics”, although she, the dynamics, moves constantly and in opposite directions.

          Hm. Great minds fings elike or, speaking in Russian, eccentrics have common thoughts.

          Having read the text, I suddenly thought the same thing: as was customary at VO, we had two authors in the person of Skomorokhov under the same name. So to speak, the solar Skomorokhov was engaged in the usual mischief, and the lunar one wrote relatively realistic texts, so to speak, in order to criticize certain shortcomings of the socialist economy.

          I decided to look when the texts of the second one were. Here is a seemingly realistic headline, a problem with gunpowder. The situation with gunpowder in our latitudes has traditionally been a nightmare, even in the golden years of Soviet power. But no, it’s NATO’s deficit.

          I didn’t go too far, but the lunar Skomorokhov hasn’t been in touch for at least a month. We may have lost it.

          But on the merits of the issue - the current European soybeans are extremely brutal and tried to imprison, plus or minus, the entire opposition. Whether they succeed or not, time will tell. It is difficult to say how this will affect Poland’s military potential: on the one hand, I am always in favor of imprisoning ministers, on the other hand, I extremely dislike European soybeans.

          As for aviation, if the FA-50PL is as agreed, then it will fulfill all its tasks. If the Poles manage to create the kind of air force for which they purchase materiel, then there will be nothing special to catch in their area of ​​​​responsibility (west of the Dnieper-Dvina line).

          Another thing is that building a modern air force is a very complex task, and it cannot be solved simply by purchasing materiel. We need to work here. We'll see whether the Poles will be able to solve this problem.
      2. +3
        April 22 2024 16: 03
        And whoever forgets the old, two down with him - continuation of the proverb
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. 0
        2 May 2024 00: 47
        Do you know the continuation of the proverb?
        "...and whoever forgets gets two."
  4. -13
    April 22 2024 05: 56
    The fact that South Koreans make excellent smartphones, microwave ovens and tankers/gas carriers/container ships and cars does not mean that they know how to make airplanes. But they know how to make wonderful kickbacks.
    1. +2
      April 22 2024 07: 45
      What is your evidence?
      1. -6
        April 22 2024 07: 51
        What is your evidence?

        1. Evidence of what?
        2. Is this Mr. Bastrykin? And if not, then why are you asking such questions?
        3. I know. I had to work with South Koreans.
    2. -1
      April 22 2024 09: 49
      Amateur
      Exactly! There are simply corruption "ears" sticking out in this deal
  5. +14
    April 22 2024 06: 54
    This is a completely different level, Roman. Comparing a combat training fighter with the Su-30, or indeed any other fighter of the Russian Aerospace Forces, is strong. And you, author, apparently don’t even bother that Poland has the same F-16s, or at least the fact that these fighters were purchased to fill the voids before the arrival of the F-35s. What do you think about the idea of ​​comparing the F-35 and Yak-130? Or maybe with the F-22? Some kind of childish level of articles has gone.
    But for some reason the Polish electorate is not amused: enormous amounts of money have been spent, and the benefit from them is more than doubtful. Relations with Russia are not getting better, but the combat effectiveness of the Polish army is somehow not growing

    The novel has apparently been in a vacuum for the last 2 years, or under a strong dose of copium, because how else can one explain the fact that a person directly ignores the fact that Poland is purchasing weapons at an unprecedented pace and scale. For example, how do you like the fact that Poland will soon have 506 HIMARS systems and 288 Korean K239 Chunmoo MLRS, the same HIMARS, but with Korean specifics. In your opinion, this does not in any way increase the combat effectiveness of the Polish Armed Forces? What nonsense.
    1. +12
      April 22 2024 07: 39
      This is Roman, he seems to have been treated well for his love for the Su-30/35... just look at his series of articles about poor Indians on the topic “stupid Indians don’t want to buy at a loss.” Well, Roman is also a big fan of comparing “spherical horses in a vacuum,” or rather, individual weapons without taking into account tactics and related units. So it turns out that the training center must go out once in a while with a heavy fighter in a dog dump, and so that the Su-35 is immediately on the tail, and so that the “flying desk” must have an autocannon wedge and an engine surge. But seriously, the Korean as a platform for transporting ammunition and strikes with guidance from AWACS will work, but you can find better, but money is not the law and not in such a time frame... the Poles themselves may not be doing so well with flying radars (there are a couple of BU Saabs, as already written on VO, are very good cars), but if taken proportionally, they are no worse than ours, and NATO will help if anything happens...
    2. +6
      April 22 2024 07: 48
      Apparently, the author was punished for recent critical articles. So I decided to move Ryabov from the garden
      1. +3
        April 22 2024 09: 35
        . Looks like the latest critical articles


        What?
      2. +6
        April 22 2024 09: 42
        Dear Roman. If you were visited by sad men in gray suits and you can no longer write articles normally, start your next article with the words “the eyes are afraid, but the hands are doing.” We will understand.
  6. +13
    April 22 2024 07: 26
    "Put ministers in prison from time to time?..."
    I read articles like this with a smile. Do you think we have something better? Half the country has been flooded, we have been fighting for three years, people write about the lawlessness of migrants every day, but the planes are the best. Why then are we fighting for so long if the weapons are the best???? You know, let’s put things in order first, and then we’ll look for the “beam in the eye” of others. The Poles have neither oil, nor gas, nor anything at all, but they find money for rearmament. And we fight with Soviet galoshes and laugh at the Poles. We ourselves need to start asking and demanding an account at all levels from the president and his ministers about what has been done and what has not been done. Otherwise, over 20 years we have already been taught to value power by its beautiful eyes! And they tell us everything about the orientation of America and Europe.
  7. -6
    April 22 2024 07: 34
    But the situation is further complicated by the fact that the eternal chaos of the Polish military department has led to the fact that Polish officials “forgot” to order the simulators with which any training begins. Yes, they were later ordered, but they will arrive no earlier than 2025. The same thing happened with ejection simulators.

    The British are training Ukrainian pilots to fly the F-16 on propeller-driven light aircraft. Let the Poles do the same. The technique has been worked out wassat
  8. +1
    April 22 2024 07: 44
    I don’t understand why you should worry so much about the Poles, it’s their business, their money. They haven’t been on friendly terms with their heads for a long time, but we can just watch this circus
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  10. -10
    April 22 2024 08: 26
    A sad musical fairy tale. A nobleman bought an expensive boombox from Samsung, drags it on his shoulder through the noble ghetto (not something that is immediately associated) in Warsaw, the weight and dimensions are not small, but you can’t throw it away, and it sticks out from the music" A La La La They killed the gentry, they killed the gentry, with... they killed them "Here you just need to play basketball!
  11. -7
    April 22 2024 08: 37
    I do not know! Do the Poles have few planes? But there are many of them throughout Europe. They will press with numbers. So, you can’t hope for an easy life. Conclusion: urgently restore aviation schools, increase aircraft production, modernize and develop aviation infrastructure.
    R.S. There is no trust in the author, repeated “in-on” with a stake betrays either a secret Westerner, or a secret and home-grown liberalist. What, one and the same Mr.
    1. +2
      April 22 2024 09: 18
      Do the Poles have few planes? But there are many of them throughout Europe. They will press with numbers.


      I completely agree, no one will climb alone, they will all fight together and quantity will play the main role here. We need a cheap light multi-role fighter like air...
  12. +6
    April 22 2024 09: 16
    As far as I have read, these aircraft were never intended to participate in air combat, but were purchased for training purposes and to combat drones and missiles. The Psheks do not hide that this is a temporary solution. They should receive the first F-35s in January 2026, and they want to have the first squadron by the end of this year. Therefore, there is no point in comparing this essentially training aircraft with any serious combat fighter.
  13. -6
    April 22 2024 09: 40
    For Poland's conquest of the Baltic states, the "Golden Sparrow" will be quite suitable, so let it be, the good will not be lost.
  14. -13
    April 22 2024 09: 46
    What is there more to discuss here? Psheko officials are not going to fight. But not a single busy official would be averse to building another little courtyard at Korean expense. Not in Poland, of course.
    If we were to discuss any Polish war games - remember the autumn of 1939... It will be the same... And with the F-16, and even with the F-35...
  15. +5
    April 22 2024 10: 21
    FA-50 is available in different modifications.
    The Poles will be supplied with modern versions of the FA-50 Block 10 and 20.
    The first is focused on strike missions and can be equipped with a modern Lockheed Martin Sniper sighting system; the second is for air combat, has modern electronics, and can use medium-range missiles.
    By January 2019, KAI began development of an improved FA-50, dubbed the "Block 10 Modernization" and "Block 20". Block 10 is a software upgrade that can utilize the Lockheed Martin AN/AAQ-33 sniper targeting module, while Block 20 has improved capabilities for beyond visual range air-to-air missions carrying munitions such as the AIM-120. AMRAAM. [37]

    The aircraft will be an effective complement to the F-35.
    1. +8
      April 22 2024 11: 33
      .The aircraft will be an effective complement to the F-35.

      According to the current understanding, the Poles are building a full-fledged air force. At the top of the chain there will be Saab Avaks.
      On the second floor there are penguins - their task is to control the sky. So all these Su-35s are for them. It is characteristic that the Poles do not rely entirely on NATO avaxes, but buy their own. Although no one seems to have canceled NATO Avaxes yet.
      The third floor is attack aircraft. In the case of Poland, this is 48 F-16s of the 52nd block and the same number of future Koreans. If the plans for the Koreans do not fail, then the Koreans are STRONGER than the F-16: they will be equipped with the Ratheon AFAR. To get this on the F-16, you had to queue up behind the Arabs and Taiwanese, sometime after 2030.

      The Polish Korean has additional range, that is, duty time, additional capabilities due to more serious radio electronics relative to the F-16, and the ability to carry both AIM-120 and Norwegian JSM in both anti-ship and air-to-ground variants. For those tasks that may be planned for the Polish Air Force (battles in the Ukrainian, Belarusian, Estonian directions), its capabilities seem quite suitable. An alternative is a used F-16 from the European Air Force with subsequent modernization to block 70. How much better or worse it is - you need to be deep in the topic.
      1. +1
        April 22 2024 12: 54
        Accurate and almost complete analysis, you just forgot about balloons with radars, which at first were ridiculed at VO, but after much deliberation it was decided that such balloons should be introduced.
        1. +2
          April 22 2024 13: 29
          . forgot about balloons with radars

          I wrote about airplanes. There are also a lot of interesting things on earth: JLENS, Aegis Ashor, Patriots, SAMM, and a bunch of all sorts of European, Israeli, American components that need to be combined into one system. I’m telling you, there’s no end to the work. But if all this starts to work as theoretically it should, Poland will become a very serious country in this regard, perhaps the most serious in Europe.
      2. +5
        April 22 2024 13: 13
        If you get to the bottom of the source (where two Polish political parties are uncompromisingly fighting, one of which wants Blaszczak’s head), then it won’t be “However, already on April 15 of this year, the Polish publication Onet reported that flights on Korean fighters have been suspended since the beginning of this year, and today these machines “represent more of a problem than a benefit for the Polish Air Force.”, and something completely different: “According to our information, in mid-March, after an almost three-month break, FA-50 fighters purchased in South Korea were able to take off again. When asked about the cessation of operation of these aircraft, the Ministry of Defense said that “the Commander-General did not formally suspend flights on aircraft of this type,” but “the Korean side needs time to provide additional documentation"." https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/tylko-w-onecie/samoloty-fa-50-byly-uziemione-ogromne-problemy-wojska-z-koreanskimi-maszynami/g13bc0w?utm_source=vz.ru_viasg_wiadomosci&utm_medium=referal&utm_campaign=leo_automatic&srcc= undefined&utm_v=2

        In general, everything is like in the joke: I didn’t win, but lost, etc.

        It would be interesting to read about the “Polish internal struggle”, where two parties drive each other to the screams of “more weapons!"Or"your military plan allowed for defense with the occupation of part of Poland!", but hardly anyone will write about it...

        To get this on the F-16, you had to queue up behind the Arabs and Taiwanese, sometime after 2030.
        Well, the South Koreans were ready to take aircraft from their native Air Force, from the production line (both tanks and self-propelled guns) and give them away for money right away - so they earned a little... at the end of 2023 they signed a contract, 12 aircraft at once in 2023, in 2024 another 24, and with modernization the contract will be completed in 2028.
        1. 0
          April 22 2024 13: 47
          "your military plan allowed for defense with the occupation of part of Poland!" but hardly anyone will write about it...


          Ugums. Rumor has it that under the influence of the Northern Military District, the partners’ understanding of the term “probable theater of operations” has changed greatly. This might be of interest to some readers. Especially from Belarus.
        2. +2
          April 22 2024 18: 29
          It would be interesting to read about the “Polish internal struggle”, where two parties are chasing each other to the cries of “more weapons!” or “your military plan allowed for defense with the occupation of part of Poland!

          I live not far from the Polish border and periodically in the car I listen to what their radio broadcasts....
          the previous government periodically poked the then opps for disarmament... The opps came to power, including criticism of large military purchases and slogans, we will reconsider....
          but so far nothing seems to have been reviewed.
          There is a strong personnel leapfrog at the top and at the feeders. The intensity of the political confrontation is scribe.
          Warriors have again begun to be involved in protecting borders from migrants.

          Threat. I am in some prostration at the proposal of their Ministry of Internal Affairs to hire foreigners, Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Georgians, into their police force. However, they argue.
          1. 0
            April 24 2024 22: 20
            In normal countries, politicians quarrel and those who steal go to jail, this is normal, but this does not have a serious impact on important elements of the country's defense. Such important issues are cross-party...
  16. +3
    April 22 2024 10: 36
    Taking into account the realities that the war over the last two years has demonstrated even with such a country that is not very developed in terms of air defense as Ukraine, the thought periodically arises, every time I hear from UVT, that this topic on the Su and Mig families turned out to be an absolutely dead-end solution that has outlived its time and suitable only for aerobatics demonstrations at exhibitions. As I understand, after February 2022, not a single aerial victory was won due to the UVT. And not a single aircraft’s high maneuverability could save it from air defense, including its own.
  17. -1
    April 22 2024 10: 40
    We need weapons for the specifics of Russia We don’t need expensive aircraft carriers and what we have in the West, we need to play from our Eurasian Geography.

    That is, there are many states around in Eurasia that will develop air defense
    This means that medium-range ballistic missiles are needed, because it is impossible to work with aviation.
    But it is very expensive to bomb thousands of missiles a month and there is no capacity.
    So we need BALLISTIC CAPS

    A sub-orbital stage like the Falcon 9 is certainly cool, but preparing the launch pad is not very intensive.
    This means that a UAV is needed (the return stage itself is actually a UAV)
    You need a UAV similar to the Mig 34 Airplane, a single-engine jet glider designed to climb at a speed of Mach 4+, although to hit at a range of 1000+ km you need to install a rocket engine on the glider.
    You need to take off from an airfield near the Volga and fly to the Caucasus or Western Russia and there make a ballistic dash up a hill at a speed of Mach 4+ and drop the KAB from this hill.

    Perhaps you can stupidly attach a rocket engine to the plane and get 7-8 machs.
    The KAB will fly 200-600 kilometers according to ballistics and then open its wings when it slows down sufficiently and flies another 100 km, although if it has a rocket engine, then it won’t be necessary, it will just be a warhead

    100 of these “flying stages” will be able to deliver up to 1000 strikes per day across Eurasia.
  18. -5
    April 22 2024 11: 32
    Perhaps greed, and perhaps the desire to “cut” the budget with a system of “kickbacks” and bonuses forced the arrogant gentlemen to buy this aviation “miracle weapon”...
  19. -6
    April 22 2024 11: 51
    Here I would like to stop and ask: is this serious? Is this the Golden Eagle? In the image and likeness of the “Fighting Falcon” F-16?

    Likewise, the F-16, in general, is not the strongest airplane, commercially successful, yes. And it’s scary to see a training aircraft...
    1. +6
      April 22 2024 13: 16
      There is one problem - the F-16 has more downed enemy vehicles than the entire Su-27/30/34/35 family combined, this is of course not a particularly important indicator, but important information for general development...
  20. +4
    April 22 2024 13: 19
    And when the war came, the U-2 became the Po-2, a night bomber.
    The U-2 in the LNB version began to be produced in 1941, but the Po-2 was produced only in 1944. Let's put it this way - when the war came, the U-2 became a Light Night Bomber.
    1. +3
      April 22 2024 13: 41
      Well, then about Romina’s jambs.
      It was not because of a good life that 3-4 bombs of 100 kg each were hung on a small airplane and it quietly dragged them towards the enemy at a speed of 120 km/h
      writes our “great aviation expert.” True, the performance characteristics for the U-2 (Po-2) aircraft have completely different figures.
      The main ammunition dropped from the U-2 were FAB-100 and FAB-50 high-explosive bombs. The bomber carried either two “hundreds” or 4 bombs of 50 kg caliber.
      After all, I haven’t read Romina’s opuses on aviation for almost 3 years, damn it...
  21. +1
    April 22 2024 13: 21
    It’s not entirely clear where the Poles get so much money. We bought them from the Koreans, ordered F-35s, purchased tanks, etc. It’s definitely not 2% of GDP. It looks like these guys are really preparing for a big war. For access to the Black Sea.
    1. +6
      April 22 2024 14: 37
      Let's take a calculator and calculate... Poland's GDP for 2023 seems to be 691 billion, they spend 2,4%, which is 16,58 billion. In 2019 (before the start of the gigantic rearmament program, although some equipment was already purchased then) they spent approximately 11 billion, let's assume that Is that exactly how much is needed to maintain the army in the form it is? According to the plans that they memorized, the modernization program is designed for 8 years, which is 44,64 billion ((16,58-11)x8), which is approximately the amount of weapons they purchased... no mysticism or conspiracy, a normal process of army modernization
    2. 0
      April 23 2024 19: 18
      So Poland is now essentially a small European China; a lot of production has now been moved there from Western Europe. Just for comparison, 2023 thousand cars were produced in Russia in 700, while in little Poland there were as many as 600 thousand, not to mention the production of auto parts.
      1. 0
        April 24 2024 23: 13
        good comparison with China... Poland's economic growth over the last 30 years has been impressive and is second only to that of the Chinese economy. This was enough to prevent the rise of the oligarchs and mercilessly fight corruption...
  22. 0
    April 22 2024 13: 36
    So the “Golden Eaglet” looks the same against the background of the Su-30 and, even more so, the Su-35.

    Great question about quantity, Wikipedia:
    "Russian Air Force - about 80 Su-30SM, and 19 Su-30M2 as of 2024[75]
    Aviation of the Russian Navy - no more than 18 Su-30SM and 8+ Su-30SM2 as of 2024[76]"
    "Russian Air Force Su35 - 111 units by 2024[55]."

    Total: 236

    NATO (only Poland and Scandinavians): Polish Air Force F16 - 48 (plus plan FA50 - 48, F35-32) Finland F18 - 55 (plan F35 - 64) Sweden Gripen 71 (60 plan), Norway F35 - 34 (12th order)
    Total 208

    Conclusion: the Scandinavians and Poles, even if the rest of NATO does not “fit in” with them, already have a comparable number of modern fighters.
    And with the arrival of the F35, the question of quality will arise.
  23. -3
    April 22 2024 16: 07
    How painful, how bitter... And “Gripen” is only 2 times more expensive. And we just had to wait a little.
  24. -3
    April 22 2024 16: 21
    Well, that’s good, they would still have plywood tanks and paper ships.
  25. -3
    April 22 2024 19: 48
    "Golden Eagle" - that's right. sad Golden is so yellow and fluffy. Chicken in. The Poles are arrogant - even if I deliver abroad through pipes, there are problems with the mind.
  26. +3
    April 22 2024 19: 58
    Kindergarten-level article - my dad is a master's candidate in boxing and is cooler than your nerd. And if behind the nerd’s shoulders there are 5 more nerds throwing bricks at the boxer? But instead of this circus, it’s hard to compare the complex system of the NATO and Russian Air Forces, something suggests that if the golden sparrow has the notorious seccentricity, then it can fire long-range air-air missiles using the SU-35 because AWACS will help him, even the F-4 can, and the times of one on one or 2 on 2 seem to be in the past, except for the beginning of the Northern Military District when the Russian Air Force decided that the Ukrainians would not take off anything at all and the ground-based air defense missiles had long since become damp, although after a couple of days they were illusions scattered and it all comes down to firing long-range missiles and the ability to get rid of them, and even the dinosaurs of the deceased superpower S-200 seem to be able to do something.
  27. Des
    +1
    April 22 2024 20: 00
    From an author’s article on VO: “It doesn’t fit in my head that the Golden Sparrow can really oppose the Su-30. Well, except perhaps the heroism and courage of the Polish pilots, somehow nothing else comes to mind.” ..."The fact that the Su-30 and Su-35 (especially) will shoot at the FA-50 from great distances is understandable. Radars see further, missiles fly further, electronic warfare is also clearly more powerful. Speed ​​and altitude are also on the side of Russian vehicles , we are silent about maneuverability, because the variable thrust vector is a strong bonus."
    "In the head") while our World Cup fleet with its losses from sea and air "sparrows" that are smaller in all characteristics. And the Air Force does not risk flying into the territory of Ukraine. Those. The Poles, yes, did not conclude the contract wisely (will the minister be imprisoned?).
    "And when the war came, the U-2 became the Po-2, a night bomber." Po-2 still has many achievements).
    And - “If the Poles have a war with Russia on their agenda, then what can two regiments of light fighters do? Especially considering that Russia has similar aircraft in combat units, and in general, what kind of knightly nonsense is this?”
    This is worthy of the Klitschko Prize))).
    I respect the author.
    1. 0
      April 24 2024 23: 46
      I don't know why you are so optimistic... The FA-50 will be equipped with AESA radars, which means that any SU's radar will most likely be useless. Read about the test battles of the Su-35SE and Rafale in Egypt... India also conducted similar tests. and what will a blind SU-35 do... Electronic warfare is also important for the West, so I would not be so sure who would win in a real fight, especially since the West now has a complete understanding of Russian military technologies, thanks to the loss of equipment in Ukraine..
      1. Des
        0
        April 25 2024 05: 19
        Quote: western
        I don't know why you are so optimistic...
        And where did you see him?) Quite the opposite.
  28. 0
    April 22 2024 20: 57
    There is a show pilot in the States, Randy Ball. He has a small company to perform at various air shows. So, he performs on a Polish-made MiG-17. He has several of them. What a gorgeous way he represents OUR MiG-17! A great pilot for OUR car. Those interested can watch his flights on Facebook.
  29. 0
    April 22 2024 21: 09
    A strange comparison...it’s an analogue of Grippen and FT17. We have nothing to compare it with. This is a dimension smaller than f16
    1. -1
      April 23 2024 00: 44
      A strange comparison...it’s an analogue of Grippen and FT17. We have nothing to compare it with.

      ...This is the Golden Sparrow. Full similarity and analogue of our Yak-130 and their Aermacchi M-346
      .
      1. 0
        April 23 2024 08: 08
        Not really. This is the American version of TCB. It has a full-fledged fighter turbojet engine and, accordingly, thrust-to-weight ratio.
        1. 0
          April 29 2024 21: 41
          This is the American version of TCB.

          This is its main advantage?
          1. 0
            April 29 2024 22: 16
            Yes. They allow themselves to have a supersonic training device with the characteristics of a fighter...in terms of speed, thrust, acceleration....no one else. In fact, their trainer is a light fighter. The Yak130 and its analogs (even supersonic ones) are not like that.
            1. 0
              April 29 2024 22: 27
              Because usually training fighters are created on the basis of serial fighters with seats for a cadet and an instructor. And this is what is called the economy version. And the Yak-130 is a “study desk”.
              1. 0
                April 29 2024 22: 50
                Once again....this is a US Army tender...and can be sold as a fighter. M346 brother Yak130 lost their tender. The Yak130 flies in our army, but it is not a fighter and cannot be.
                This is not bad and not good.....the American approach is many times more expensive.
                By the way, the Swedes won the US tender with a similar machine.
                1. 0
                  April 29 2024 22: 53
                  Once again....this is a US Army tender...and can be sold as a fighter.

                  The article is about Poland.
                  1. 0
                    April 29 2024 23: 05
                    Here are the participants in the tender for the training facility in the USA who sold a fighter to Poland
                    1. 0
                      2 May 2024 00: 35
                      Like, a “consolation prize” for Lockheed and South Korean allies to support their pants.
        2. 0
          April 29 2024 22: 16
          In concept, it is more reminiscent of the F-5 Tiger, which turned from a training aircraft into an export fighter for the poor allies.
  30. +1
    April 24 2024 21: 28
    Stupid jokes will not change the fact that these aircraft are excellent for firing, for example, AGM-158D JASSM-XR missiles with a range of 1600 km, of which there will be about 1000 in Poland, as well as for chasing drones... Why use expensive F-35s , or F-16, if possible cheap FA-50... These aircraft will not approach the front line and will not fight with any SU... unless they are carriers of anti-aircraft missiles guided by other units... But you forget about the NATO computerized army system. Everything exchanges information with everything else... There is no need for a super-plane that carries only weapons, and this work is done by expensive cars... For maritime surveillance tasks, not cruisers are used, but patrol ships...
    Isn't it stupid to laugh at regulations and certificates? Poland is not at war, therefore, respecting the lives of its pilots, it requires that every element of the aircraft comply with Polish safety regulations and undergo the appropriate certification. Each pilot means millions of dollars and thousands of hours of training lost if they fail. In the West, it is easier to produce a new aircraft than to train a new pilot, which is why they approach this so strictly.
    If someone wants to laugh at NATO aviation, let them compare the production of the F-35, 150 units per year, with the Su-75, 100 units, maybe in 10 years)))
    And the attack on K2 has no basis. Competencies are acquired over time. The European Abrams center is being built in a Polish plant with a Polish crew, and the K2 will sooner or later be produced in Poland... Poland does not need all the world's competencies, because it will not have problems obtaining products that it cannot produce itself , which cannot be said about Russia. A simple example is bearing manufacturer SKF, which accounts for 90% of all bearing production in Europe. These bearings are in German cars, Italian helicopters and French planes (and until recently in Russian carriages...) and no one raises the problem of “self-sufficiency”...
    Polish helicopter factories continue to produce helicopters from American companies. for example, the C-70i Black Hawk is produced in Poland...
  31. -1
    April 25 2024 18: 35
    As a replacement, the SU 22 is quite sufficient, but for modern air combat it is rubbish.
  32. -1
    April 30 2024 10: 19
    Only a Pole can be dumber and worse than a Ukrainian!))