Strategic bomber for the Russian Armed Forces: it’s not that simple

204
Strategic bomber for the Russian Armed Forces: it’s not that simple

The reason for writing this material was the recently published article by Alexander Timokhin “What should a strategic bomber of the near future be like?”. In part, the author’s views on the problem of a promising strategic bomber coincide with the theses set out in the above article; moreover, for a long time, the author saw the ideal mass-produced missile-carrying bomber as something like a domestic analogue of the American B-52 strategic bomber, which has a colossal margin of safety, the highest maintainability and modernization potential .

However, recent events have largely corrected the point of view on the prospects for creating a number of weapons and military equipment.



Firstly, this is due to the fact that Russia is now actually in the pre-war period, and secondly, with the implementation by our opponents (primarily the United States) of a number of defense programs that can in the near future significantly affect the appearance of promising combat vehicles .

First, let's talk about today.

Features of the pre-war period


Perhaps the formulation “features of the pre-war period” is not entirely correct - high-intensity combat operations, in which our strategic bombers are also used, are already underway, however, formally we are not in a state of war, and the impact on our facilities , located in the deep rear, Ukraine carries out on a very limited scale. And the point here is not that Ukraine does not want, but that it cannot. But it cannot because our true enemy, the Western countries, allocate to Ukraine a limited number and range of long-range weapons.


Maps of attacks by kamikaze UAVs and cruise missiles on targets on the territory of Ukraine - the main thing is that the same maps of our country do not appear

Thanks to the above, our industry can operate at full capacity, but everything can change at any moment, now we are closer than ever to a direct collision with the United States and its allies, and therefore, yes, in fact we are in the pre-war period.

At the moment when we move into the “hot phase” of a clash with the United States and its allies, even in the version of a conventional war, the industry’s capabilities for the production of high-tech weapons will be radically reduced due to precision strikes weapons long-range strikes against targets deep within the territory of our country, not to mention a war using nuclear weapons.

Thus, we will mainly fight with what was created before the war or at its beginning, at least in relation to strategic missile-carrying bombers this fully applies.

Three options for the development of a strategic bomber force can be distinguished: aviation in our country:

– maintenance and development of the existing fleet of strategic bombers;

– development and construction of wartime strategic bombers, which can be produced as quickly as possible on the basis of existing aircraft;

– development and production of promising strategic bombers, taking into account future threats, the contours of which are already visible.

Resource allocation


It is obvious that in the pre-war period the maximum amount of resources is allocated to current needs, in relation to strategic bombers - these are points No. 1 and 2, while resources will be allocated to the third point, if at all, then in very limited quantities.

The author of this article is often reproached for promoting “wunderwaffes,” that is, complex combat vehicles that go beyond the usual looks and concepts. Yes, the creation of such machines is vital for the development of the military-industrial complex (DIC) and military science, otherwise you can become “eternal catch-ups”, blindly copying the enemy’s successful developments - such a strategy is economically beneficial, but carries the risk of not being tracked in time any promising development that could change the balance of power, and fail - remember the Manhattan Project, what would have happened if the USSR had not appreciated in time the importance and reality of creating nuclear weapons?

However, during the war and in the pre-war period, it is possible to direct resources to any “wunderwaffe” only if you are fully confident that they can really change the course of the war.

Let’s imagine for a second that during the Second World War the Germans did not waste funds on the construction of battleships, “mammoth-tanks"and ballistic missiles, for which they had neither high-precision guidance systems nor nuclear warheads, but would focus on anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), anti-aircraft guided missiles (SAMs) and guided glide bombs, deploying their large-scale production, for example, in 1943? What would be the outcome of the war then?

According to the author, the transition to trench warfare and excessive prolongation of the Second World War, up to the exhaustion of the warring parties, in this case could well become real.



German missile defense "Wasserfall" W10 - had the Germans correctly assessed their prospects, the intensity of American bombing could have dropped by several orders of magnitude, industrial facilities in the rear of Nazi Germany would have remained safe and sound

But a strategic bomber, whatever it may be, is unlikely to affect the outcome of the war - namely a strategic bomber, because, it is possible that the American B-21 Raider is already something more than just a bomber, that it is something like a “flying destroyer” capable of autonomously fighting ground, surface and air targets deep in enemy territory, but you can’t build such a machine “quickly and a lot.”

Proposed in the article “What should a strategic bomber of the near future be like?” the concept of a missile-carrying bomber for our design bureaus (KB) and industry will be the same “wunderwaffe” as the PAK-DA, perhaps even more complex, since everything will have to start all over again. In Russia there is simply no civilian aircraft that could be quickly converted into a bomber, in the form in which it is indicated in the article.

The development of the Skhoi Superjet 100 aircraft was started by the Sukhoi Corporation back in 2000, the first prototype was presented in 2007, the first flight took place a year later, and the first deliveries of production aircraft began only in 2011. The development of the Superjet aircraft was carried out with the support of large Western companies, with extensive use of Western technologies, in the “pre-sanctions era”. Since 2019, the “import-substituted” Superjet NEW has been developed, but even now, after 5 years, work on it is still not fully completed.


Superjet. Image by SuperJet International

With a combat aircraft, everything will be much more complicated, with all these GOST standards and “letters” of ours, even if serial engines will be used (it is possible that they will be used in the PAK-DA), avionics units (avionics) and others Components. To collect all this into a single complex, test it, and most importantly - organize large-scale production - this will take at least ten to fifteen years, especially in the conditions of the Northern Military District and the pre-war period.

Do we have an urgent need for a new strategic bomber right now?

If we talk about nuclear deterrence, the role of strategic aviation in it is minimal. What are the chances of survival of strategic bombers in the event of a sudden disarming strike, with the flight time of nuclear warheads (NCU) and submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) ​​being on the order of 5–7 minutes? Even if the planes manage to take off, will they escape the nuclear explosion zone? Will the enemy really not think of adding 2-4 nuclear warheads along their possible course of movement, taking into account the danger of the “strategists”?

And in any case, we will receive a strategic bomber developed from scratch in quantities of about a hundred units only in a quarter of a century, hardly earlier, just look at the pace at which the Il-76 is currently being produced.

As for the tasks solved by strategic bombers within the framework of conventional conflicts, everything is more complicated here, and they need to be considered in the context of the three options for the development of strategic bomber aviation outlined above:

– maintenance and development of the existing fleet of strategic bombers;

– development and construction of wartime strategic bombers, which can be produced as quickly as possible on the basis of existing aircraft;

– development and production of promising strategic bombers, taking into account the threats, the contours of which are already visible.

Each of these options, which do not replace, but complement each other, is a topic for a separate discussion.

Conclusions


Creating a strategic bomber, simple, reliable, without distortions into stealth or supersonic speed is a great idea, had it been implemented thirty, or better yet, sixty years ago. Yes, unfortunately, in the USSR, and then in Russia, there was no aircraft comparable to the American B-52 bomber - it’s really a pity that we didn’t borrow this concept. But there is nothing fatal in this - we’ll get by.


The B-52 is the workhorse of strategic bombers, with the service life of an aircraft carrier or battleship.

However, to predict and predict the development of military equipment for a long period is a rather difficult task, in the solution of which there is always a factor of chance.
204 comments
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  1. +7
    April 23 2024 05: 33
    This B-52 was given to you, gentlemen, as a pure bomber, it became obsolete 50 years ago and is used largely as an arsenal carrier aircraft for the Kyrgyz Republic. And for a long time it was not reliable and simple, and cheap, this is already somewhere after the middle of life. Today it has only two advantages - a huge carrying capacity and a huge amount of already produced quantities available in service and storage. Why do you need it, did you like it? So all the pilots on it are dead.
    In our case, the manned aircraft is the Tu-160, optionally the manned/unmanned aircraft is the PAK-DA. You can't buy nickels with a penny.
    1. +8
      April 23 2024 07: 50
      Quote: mark1
      this B-52, as a pure bomber, was obsolete 50 years ago and is used largely as an arsenal carrier aircraft for the Kyrgyz Republic

      What other uses do you see for it? And the same as the Tu-95, Tu-22m... and Tu-160?
      1. -11
        April 23 2024 08: 21
        Quote: Luminman
        What other uses do you see for it?

        I see it in a landfill (like the Tu-95) along with bombliners.
        1. +6
          April 23 2024 15: 44
          Quote: mark1
          I see it in a landfill (like the Tu-95) along with bombliners.

          Such caretakersThere were a lot of people like you in the 90s - we saw so much that there was nothing left of aviation...
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 16: 24
            Quote: Luminman
            There were many watchers like you in the 90s -

            These were not caretakers, these were gravediggers, you must have been very confused then, since you didn’t figure it out.
            And if you also have enthusiasm for the revival of rare equipment or the creation of bombliners (the graves of pilots), then it looks like you never left the woods.
        2. 0
          April 23 2024 18: 14
          So the Tu-95 has not been seen in a landfill for a long time. Late with the comment.
          1. +1
            April 23 2024 18: 25
            This was not a comment, but a response to one.
    2. -1
      April 23 2024 07: 55
      I partially agree with the author. Today, in the aviation part of the triad, firstly, we need to try to put into operation the maximum possible number of aircraft from storage, mainly Tu-22M3 and, if possible, modernization.
      Secondly, it is necessary to prepare now for the dispersal of strategic aviation across different airfields of the country, including civilian ones, with the construction of protected caponiers in the interior of the country.
      Thirdly, you need to select sections of routes suitable for landing large aircraft near small railway stations or sidings, without attracting attention, repair them with reinforced coverage, so that during a threatened period they can be used as reserve airfields and fuel and ammunition can be delivered to the station.

      The resumption of production of the Tu-160, despite the fact that it is obsolete, is a necessity, along with the acceleration of work on the PAK DA. Restoring the production of the Tu-160, in addition to increasing the number of strategic aviation, will make it possible to recreate all production chains of such aircraft and train personnel and, when PAK DA is ready, launch its production on a ready-made assembly line.
      We need PAK YES and in 10-15 years its absence or presence will become critical for the aviation component of the nuclear triad.
      1. +3
        April 23 2024 08: 34
        We need PAK YES
        We absolutely need it, but, unfortunately, it’s like getting to Paris with cancer
        1. +1
          April 23 2024 09: 54
          Have you seen the dimensions of PAK DA? This is a new useless barn, like the TU-160, which can be seen from 1000 km away, and which theoretically in 2 hours can take off from 4 airfields in the country, they are tracked by the Americans in real time... We need to cross the Su-57 with the Su-34 and do a little more and you will be an excellent strategist. All technologies have been developed...
          1. +9
            April 23 2024 10: 53
            Have you seen the dimensions of PAK DA?
            No one has seen them yet, except for the project wink
          2. 0
            April 23 2024 11: 33
            Quote: Vitov
            You need to cross the Su-57 with the Su-34... ...and you will have an excellent strategist.

            HO-ho! Be bold and
            ...you will be the planet's genius mechanic...
      2. +6
        April 23 2024 09: 29
        In 5, well, 10 years, there will be no Tu-22M3. This cool missile carrier for its time has a limited durability life. A small, highly loaded wing, also with a rotating unit, a long fuselage with a low safety margin do not allow the aircraft to be operated beyond the factory assigned resource. All these remaining aircraft from the last years of production fly on the word of honor and the courage of the pilots. They should all be written off by 2020...Show me at least one idiot who will extend their service life and there will be no modernization of 30 to the Tu-22M3M! The Tu-160 will have the same end. If you remove the rotating wing from the Tu-160, it will be able to fly for another 100 years. Go for it...
        1. +4
          April 23 2024 09: 50
          In 5, well, 10 years there will be no Tu-22M3. This cool missile carrier has a limited durability for its time

          With proper and timely maintenance, the Tu-22M3 can easily operate for another 30 years. The Tu-22M3 is the same age as the B-1B with the same rotary wing, and this does not interfere with the American plans to operate them until at least 2036.
          The main thing is that these machines exist and at relatively minimal costs we will receive a significant increase in missile carriers. There are simply no other options for the same money.
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 09: 58
            Dream on! Will you sign on the extension of the resource and sit in prison and pay money to orphans? No one argues with you, they tell you how it is... Why has the modernization program actually stopped? Have you ever thought about it?
            1. -4
              April 23 2024 10: 35
              Do you understand the difference between extending a resource without completing the required forms and extending a resource after completing the required forms?
              And no one is going to argue with you; they have already taken this path, but at a slow pace!
        2. +2
          April 23 2024 10: 58
          If you remove the rotating wing from the Tu-160, it will be able to fly for another 100 years
          If you remove the rotating wing from the Tu-160, it will turn into an An-2 wink
        3. +3
          April 23 2024 20: 10
          Quote: Vitov
          long fuselage with low safety margin

          He has a normal safety margin. Which aircraft of similar dimensions has the largest?

          Quote: Vitov
          do not allow the aircraft to be operated beyond the factory assigned resource.

          What is the assigned resource for the Tu-22M3?

          Quote: Vitov
          If you remove the rotating wing from the Tu-160, it will be able to fly for another 100 years.

          It's not just the wing. Take the same Tu-95MS, its wing does not change sweep, but its service life is shorter.
      3. +5
        April 23 2024 10: 43
        [/quote]it is necessary now to prepare for the dispersal of strategic aviation across
        - There is no need to prepare for this, everything has been prepared a long time ago, it’s just that plans for preparing for war, as a rule, are not communicated to the average person. stop
        Thirdly
        - look at the satellite image of the photo of the strategists’ airfield. After this, such proposals will disappear on their own.
        launch its production on a ready-made conveyor [quote]
        - you have absolutely no idea what launching the production of a new aircraft is like. As an analogue, try mastering the production of Mercedes on a Zhiguli production line. what . What they have in common is the presence of four wheels.
        1. 0
          April 23 2024 12: 56
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          As an analogue, try mastering the production of Mercedes on a Zhiguli production line.

          They don't produce on an assembly line, they collect on an assembly line.
        2. +2
          April 23 2024 20: 58
          You have absolutely no idea what it’s like to launch the production of a new aircraft. As an analogue, try mastering the production of Mercedes on a Zhiguli production line. what. What they have in common is the presence of four wheels.

          Do you propose to launch a new aircraft into production without personnel, without a factory and without components?
          Or do you think that the Tu-160 began to be produced by aliens who brought a new plant?
          You know that the Tu-4/B-29 was once the most complex product for our industry and was considered the Mercedes of bombers, but the plant for the production of Zhiguli, as you say, was updated and the same workers who assembled the Tu-2 began to assemble the B-29 and nothing , collected hundreds of them! And after a while, these same workers began to assemble the Tu-95. But when there are no factories, no workers, no components, then you won’t even be able to assemble a B-29, like most countries in the world!
          1. +1
            April 23 2024 23: 26
            [/quote]Do you suggest

            I'm not suggesting anything.
            Or do you think that the Tu-160 has begun to be produced
            - I saw with my own eyes how production of the Tu-80 began in the 160s.
            Are you aware that Tu-4/B-29
            - I know.
            considered the Mercedes of bombers
            - in the USSR, in the States and England there is nothing supernatural. Unfortunately, we lagged behind them quite seriously, and thank God, this gap was quickly reduced, including due to the introduction of the Tu-4 into production.
            You can’t even assemble a B-29 anymore[quote]
            - Today, manufacturing the B-29 is not such a difficult task.
            1. +2
              April 24 2024 04: 35
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              - Today, manufacturing the B-29 is not such a difficult task.

              Like the An-2... feel
              They just cannot assemble a team of highly qualified specialists to perform these simple tasks. Or have you already collected it?
              Hello EBN, Gaidar, Chubais and those carrying wreaths to their monuments...
              * * *
              I can say with 100% certainty that any high-tech business in Russia is in a deep cesspool... And there is no way out of there in sight!!!
              Just chatter and idle talk...
              What bombers? What engines? What avionics? When they can’t build a normal dam, they drag all the sandbags from place to place...
              And the equipment is in open areas...It is being hardened...
              1. +1
                April 26 2024 17: 04
                Well, I would bring a wreath to the monument to Chubais with pleasure (only if not by my death, but in the event of the execution of ... a sentence or order))). But the bastard is still alive. And feels great
  2. +2
    April 23 2024 05: 41
    The Tu-95 can replace an aircraft based on the Tu-204 (214). It can be designed quickly. Cheap and used aircraft. Reliable, like all Soviet "galoshes". All other options will be more complicated, and most importantly, much more expensive.
    1. +10
      April 23 2024 07: 16
      Quote: Stas157
      The Tu-95 can replace an aircraft based on the Tu-204 (214). It can be designed quickly.

      Then why design a new aircraft with worse characteristics than the Tu-95, if there is a fairly large (relatively, but not less than American) fleet of Tu-95 and Tu-142? They were built in the 80s, have recently undergone/continue to undergo major overhauls and modernization, they are equipped with new engines and new avionics. What's the matter the question?
      If you need to increase the fleet of such machines, let’s say up to 200 - 300 units. , and quickly/cheaply/angrily, then simply restart production of the “Bear” at the same Taganrog ASZ where they were built. Engines for them are produced, and they are already more powerful and economical. If desired, on the basis of the NK-12 it is not so difficult to quickly revive the magnificent NK-93. On the Tu-95 it will fit like a native one, but more high-torque and economical. In addition, there will be almost no noise.
      Archaic design?
      Is the B-52 or the proposed economy class strategist proposed earlier not archaic? Well, you can make the cabin fashionable for it, slightly increase the cross-section of the fuselage so that modern missile launchers fit inside and you don’t have to hang garlands on the pylons and spoil the aerodynamics. . But everything will be fast, simple and with all ready-made components. I think production cooperation can also be organized quickly. The avionics for them already exist and are installed on the sides being modernized. It will be easier, cheaper and faster to organize than something new. It is also urgently necessary to deploy MRBMs in sufficient and excessive (with reserve) quantities, because aviation cannot supply enough for all needs and it is very vulnerable at airfields.
      And the maximum deployment of all types of nuclear weapons on all types of carriers. On the territory of all states friendly and allied to us. If the Enemy wages War with us, he is obliged to receive War. And smell the threat of this war even at night in your bed. It should be cut by freedom-loving blacks and Arabs in France, Turks and Arabs in Germany, Pakistanis and Indians (with Arabs) in England... and blacks in England to help them. Let the freedom-loving white rednecks lynch the sodomites and Democrats for all Trump's grievances in the USA, complete the Great Wall of Texas and make Texas and Oklahoma great again. And let Alaska return to Rodnaya Gavan, where it is not necessary to change gender on Mondays.
      1. +2
        April 23 2024 07: 52
        Quote: bayard
        Then why design a new aircraft with worse characteristics than the Tu-95?

        Replace his electronics, trick engine - and it will turn out to be a beauty!
        1. +6
          April 23 2024 07: 58
          Quote: Luminman
          Replace its electronics, tweak its engine - and you'll end up with a real beauty!

          The fact is that the existing fleet has already been modernized and continues to be modernized. With the replacement of engines with new ones with a very good service life.
          But if their production is resumed (and this is exactly what the author of the previous article on this topic wanted), then you can make such a doll on its basis - you’ll lick your fingers.
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 20: 05
            Quote: bayard
            With the replacement of engines with new ones with a very good service life.

            They haven’t made new NK-12 engines for a long time; they just repair old ones, albeit with modifications, which involve making some parts anew. It will be enough for the Tu-95MS to live out its life in peace.
            1. +1
              April 23 2024 20: 39
              We produce IL-76 in units. And you propose to restore production of an aircraft for which all the equipment has been lost. Well, we’ll restore it at a huge cost and we’ll produce 2-3 pieces a year. What will it give?
              1. 0
                April 23 2024 21: 29
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                You propose to restore production of an aircraft for which all the equipment has been lost.

                Where do I offer this?
                1. 0
                  April 23 2024 21: 31
                  Sorry, for some reason you got the comment, although it was intended for your opponents.
                  1. 0
                    April 23 2024 22: 13
                    Happens. And I agree with the comment that there is no point in releasing an obviously outdated aircraft again. Much more needed are PLO, electronic warfare, RTR based on the Tu-214, tankers, AWACS based on the Il-76.
                    1. osp
                      0
                      April 24 2024 01: 14
                      And other aircraft also need the NK-12.
                      For example, Tu-142 and An-22.
                      Where can I get them for these cars?

                      PS

                      There, it was proposed to restore production in Taganrog.
                      I’m silent, the plant is under Ukraine’s nose.
                      It has been hit by drones more than once.
                      But at any moment they can send something more serious.
                      A-50 and VKP are also only serviced there.
                      And this is already critical.
                      1. 0
                        April 24 2024 09: 17
                        Quote from osp
                        And other aircraft also need the NK-12.
                        For example, Tu-142 and An-22.
                        Where can I get them for these cars?

                        There are only 22-3 An-4s that fly; their main problem is the propellers.
                        The NK-12MP has a relatively large resource, comparable to the remaining resource of the Tu-95 and Tu-142, it will definitely be enough until the 30s. And then you’ll see they’ll start removing them from service.
                    2. 0
                      1 May 2024 10: 16
                      Tanker aircraft and AWACS can also be produced on the basis of the Tu-214.

                      By the way, how do you feel about the use of cruise missiles (on pallets) from military transport aircraft? And nuclear-tipped missiles from fighter jets?
                      1. +1
                        Yesterday, 19: 29
                        Quote: Maxim G
                        Tanker aircraft and AWACS can also be produced on the basis of the Tu-214.

                        The IL-76 is a much more powerful platform both in terms of the mass of fuel delivered and the mass and volume of equipment. But in our reality, this is a platform with a much larger production volume, the score for last year was 6-0.

                        Quote: Maxim G
                        By the way, how do you feel about the use of cruise missiles (on pallets) from military transport aircraft?

                        An interesting, although not very new topic. To sweep away something like Libya with a salvo and, most importantly, the stock of missiles is enough, but against larger countries capable of extending the interception limits to a distance of 1000-1500 km, the effectiveness is already doubtful.

                        Quote: Maxim G
                        And nuclear-tipped missiles from fighter jets?

                        Depends on what tasks you give them. For strikes in operational or operational-tactical depth it will do.
                      2. 0
                        Today, 12: 53
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        An interesting, although not very new topic. To sweep away something like Libya with a salvo and, most importantly, the reserve of missiles is enough, but against larger countries capable of extending interception lines to a distance of 1000-1500 km, effectiveness is already questionable.

                        Like full-fledged strategic missile carriers?
                      3. 0
                        Today, 15: 10
                        First of all, a full-fledged missile carrier (the same B-1B) can fly at high speed at low altitudes and launch missiles from them.
                        I wonder how the exhibition of INS missiles is carried out if they do not have electrical communication with the carrier? Only by GPS or is the pallet also smart?
                      4. 0
                        Today, 16: 21
                        As far as I understand, the pallet is smart.
                        During the December test, an MC-130J flown by an Air Force Special Operations Command operational flight crew, received new targeting data while in flight which was then routed to the cruise missile flight test vehicle (FTV). The aircraft agnostic Battle Management System's inflight receipt and upload of the new targeting data into the FTV was a first-time achievement with a live cruise missile.

                        That's the question, what kind of data is being transmitted?
              2. +2
                April 23 2024 23: 10
                Quote: Sergey Sfyedu
                You propose to restore production of an aircraft for which all the equipment has been lost. Well, we’ll restore it at a huge cost and we’ll produce 2-3 pieces a year. What will it give?

                Tu-95MS and Tu-142 were produced by the Taganrog plant until the end of the 80s. And the Tu-142 is possible after that for some time, incl. for export . And they better know what equipment they have lost and how difficult it is, if necessary, to resume production of an updated version of these aircraft. This needs to be listened to by representatives of the plant, in the presence of cooperation enterprises and at closed meetings.
                Now the Taganrog Aircraft Plant services the entire fleet of these aircraft and is carrying out a deep modernization of the Tu-95MS to the Tu-95MSM. While the information was open - up to 5 pieces. in year . If the resumption of production of such bombers was considered advisable, moving from deep modernization and overhauls to the construction of new ones would not be such an overwhelming task as you described. In addition, it will be possible to make certain changes to the new modification that will seriously increase their capabilities compared to the previous ones. Moreover, under this program it would be possible to revive the magnificent NK-93 engine with its thrust of up to 20 t.p. (in tests instead of the expected 18 hp), phenomenal low noise (remember the roar of the Bears) and amazing fuel efficiency. In addition, the NK-93 is structurally close to the NK-12, but with different variable-pitch and reverse propellers enclosed in the shell. The NK-93 was going to be installed on the Il-96 and Tu-204. But he was ready for the series only by the end of the 90s. A production line capable of producing 100 engines per year was ready. Manturov closed the program, withdrew funding and destroyed production... Maybe what was left? After all, this engine was twice as economical as the best bypass turbojet engines of that time.
                Having such an engine, you can safely increase the cross-section of the fuselage so that the drum with the X-101\102 fits inside, and the pylons can be left as an option - the engines will pull.
            2. +2
              April 23 2024 21: 45
              Quote: Lozovik
              They haven’t made new NK-12 engines for a long time; they just repair old ones, albeit with modifications, which involve making some parts anew.

              As far as I know, the service life of the NK-12 of previous releases was considered “not very good,” and I know that they were repaired and parts were partially changed. Then answer me how can a repaired engine be assigned a resource of 20 to 000 flight hours, while (as officially reported by UEC and UAC) this resource seriously exceeds the resource of the previous engines. The release of these corporations states in black and white that the engines on the currently modernized Tu-40MSM are being installed with NEW ones, with a longer service life, increased thrust and improved fuel efficiency? At the same time, new propellers with greater traction output are installed. Maybe your data is not entirely up to date?
              And precisely based on the data that the NK-12 in a modernized version was again put into production, I at one time proposed relaunching an updated version of the An-12 with two such engines. He offered it knowing that the engines were back in production.
              1. 0
                April 23 2024 21: 57
                Quote: bayard
                As far as I know, the service life of the NK-12 of previous releases was considered “not very good,” and I know that they were repaired and parts were partially changed.

                Compared to other "military" engines it is good, even one of the best.

                Quote: bayard
                Then answer me how can a repaired engine be assigned a resource of 20 to 000 flight hours

                Can not. A gas pumping unit based on it has a similar level of service life.

                Quote: bayard
                At the same time, new propellers with greater traction output are installed.

                Maybe. The screws and gearbox are the weakest points.

                Quote: bayard
                Maybe your data is not entirely up to date?

                NK-12MP and MA are only repairs, this is accurate information.
                1. +3
                  April 24 2024 00: 08
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  Compared to other "military" engines it is good, even one of the best.

                  With jets - yes. Compared to the AI-20, it is approximately at the same level, although the NK-12 is MUCH more complex and powerful.
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  Can not. A gas pumping unit based on it has a similar level of service life.

                  Well, I didn’t pull these numbers out of thin air, maybe the departments are lying. But most likely, in light of the need to maintain the Tu-95MSM fleet for at least another 15-20 years (until a replacement is designed and built), they decided to resume engine production. We used new materials (for the same hot part and gearbox), came up with a new screw and voila - you can safely carry out a deep (and expensive) modernization for service for “at least another 20 years”.
                  That's why I say - since this engine is back in production, it would be a sin not to use it somewhere else:
                  - for the new twin-engine medium transport aircraft of the An-12 class,
                  - for a new modification of a long-range bomber based on the Tu-95, but with an internal drum placement from the X-101\102,
                  - as a basis for resuming the NK-93 project, which is structurally very similar to the NK-12, except for the propellers and shell.
                  Moreover, if it were possible to revive the magnificent NK-93, it could be installed on the Il-96, and on a medium transport aircraft, and even on that same new bomber based on the Tu-95. In the latter case, the plane would sparkle with completely new colors. And instead of a roar deafening to the point of slight concussion, it would become... the quietest bomber in the world. With amazing fuel efficiency and low emissions (which is important, of course, for civil aviation).
                  But this is a list of possibilities, and you can love anything.
                  Manturov will not let you lie.
                  Now, if only we could cast him a golden parachute, and re-baptize all the departments of his strange and wonderful ministry into sectoral ministries, and assign to each of them a supervisor from the AP. Then maybe things will go well.
                  1. 0
                    April 24 2024 12: 29
                    Quote: bayard
                    With jets - yes. Compared to the AI-20, it is approximately at the same level, although the NK-12 is MUCH more complex and powerful.

                    The AI-20 is also not made with fingers; in terms of the ratio of thrust to power it will be even better than the NK-12.

                    Quote: bayard
                    Well, I didn’t pull these numbers out of thin air, maybe the departments are lying.

                    It would be nice to see news or an article.

                    Quote: bayard
                    But most likely, in light of the need to maintain the Tu-95MSM fleet for at least another 15-20 years (until a replacement is designed and built), they decided to resume engine production.

                    We decided to resume NK-25, but not NK-12.

                    Quote: bayard
                    - for the new twin-engine medium transport aircraft of the An-12 class

                    An-20 or what?

                    Quote: bayard
                    - for a new modification of a long-range bomber based on the Tu-95, but with an internal drum placement from the X-101\102

                    The Tu-95 has outlived its usefulness, it’s time for it to retire.

                    Quote: bayard
                    - as a basis for resuming the NK-93 project, which is structurally very similar to the NK-12, except for the propellers and shell.

                    Nothing similar at all.
                    1. 0
                      April 24 2024 15: 27
                      Quote: Lozovik

                      Quote: bayard
                      Well, I didn’t pull these numbers out of thin air, maybe the departments are lying.

                      It would be nice to see news or an article.

                      Now I don’t remember where, time has passed. But there was a report, there was an article.
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      We decided to resume NK-25

                      Hmm... the NK-32 failed to get into the Tu-22M3? I heard the air flow is different, the air intakes need to be redone. But is this to maintain the fleet of old ones, or to renew new ones? There is also fatigue in the airframe, the old ones won’t last long, and getting the engine back into production is not an easy task. If for new ones, then it’s easier to do it right away under NK-32. This modification of the Tu-22M4 was supposed to become. We didn’t have time under the Union - all NK-32s went to the “Swans”.
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      Quote: bayard
                      - as a basis for resuming the NK-93 project, which is structurally very similar to the NK-12, except for the propellers and shell.

                      Nothing similar at all.

                      For some reason I thought that the ideology of the NK-93 was the experience of installing the NK-12 on hovercraft in the shell. The thrust has increased, the noise has sharply decreased and so has the fuel efficiency, but new propellers have been made... Oh yes - the NK-93 still has 15% of its thrust from the jet, and not from the fan.
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      An-20 or what?

                      I’ve never heard of him, but then I looked at Wikipedia. The maximum load capacity is even higher than I estimated empirically, I thought 30-35 tons would be the maximum. And with NU-93 it’s all 45 tons.
                      Is it bad?
                      The fuel efficiency of turboprop or propfan engines for a transport aircraft is the optimal solution, and the ability to use unpaved strips. So why not? The IL-276 idea is much worse.
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      The Tu-95 has outlived its usefulness, it’s time for it to retire.

                      There is no replacement for him. Tu-160 is completely different. PAK YES is expensive, complicated, there will be a lot of fuss and it will not work out soon. Especially in sufficient quantities.
                      1. 0
                        April 25 2024 18: 41
                        Quote: bayard
                        Now I don’t remember where, time has passed. But there was a report, there was an article.

                        The source is interesting, otherwise the numbers are completely unrealistic, many times more than the life of the aircraft.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Hmm... the NK-32 failed to get into the Tu-22M3?

                        They didn't try.

                        Quote: bayard
                        But is this to maintain the fleet of old ones, or to renew new ones?

                        For old ones, most cars are grounded due to lack of engines.

                        Quote: bayard
                        There's also airframe fatigue, the old ones won't last long

                        They will last no less than the Tu-95MS.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Oh yes - in the NK-93, 15% of the thrust is still jet, and not from the fan.

                        NK-12 has up to 19%.

                        Quote: bayard
                        So why not?

                        The An-70 was invented.

                        Quote: bayard
                        There is no replacement for him. Tu-160 is completely different.

                        The Tu-95MS is just an ersatz Tu-160.

                        Quote: bayard
                        PAK YES is expensive, complicated, there will be a lot of fuss and it will not work out soon. Especially in sufficient quantities.

                        It is being designed specifically for a large series, so maybe everything won’t be so scary.
                      2. 0
                        April 25 2024 21: 32
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        the numbers are completely unrealistic, many times more than the life of the aircraft.

                        The numbers are really large, but the same AI-20 also had a resource of up to 40 flight hours. And I immediately thought that our “Bears” would have another 000 years to fly with such engines.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Quote: bayard
                        Hmm... the NK-32 failed to get into the Tu-22M3?

                        They didn't try.

                        We tried. There were reports and articles even published on VO. And “news from the fields” reported problems with adapting air intakes and organizing air replenishment. And about the problems with the resource of the remaining gliders, which they cannot assemble from the remaining 30 pieces. for a batch being upgraded to M3M.
                        But they were surprised about the renewal of NK-25. But if the equipment for production remained and they decided not to make gliders for the NK-32... especially since there is no one else to carry the X-32. Aviation God willing, it may actually be possible to return the surviving Tu-22M3 to service. There seemed to be about 65-70 of them left there. They even took away the monument from the plant, which the Moscow Region did not buy in the 90s and was simply left for memory. There was still a backlog left at the plant for almost a dozen aircraft.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        They will last no less than the Tu-95MS.

                        It would be nice, of course, but the “news from the fields” was not so clear.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        NK-12 has up to 19%.

                        Well, there is only one idea... with engines in the shells for the "Bison".
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        The An-70 was invented.

                        It could have been a good plane. And the engines for it are wonderful. It's a pity it didn't work out.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        The Tu-95MS is just an ersatz Tu-160.

                        For one target load (X-55), it is clear that there is unification in terms of avionics.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Quote: bayard
                        PAK YES is expensive, complicated, there will be a lot of fuss and it will not work out soon. Especially in sufficient quantities.

                        It is being designed specifically for a large series, so maybe everything won’t be so scary.

                        The novelty factor is too high, and nothing has been built for a long time in a large series and at a high pace. If they press one by one like a tear drop by drop, then in the current conditions it is better not to even start it. And it will be unreasonably expensive. It’s easier to really create a “mobilization version” of a bomber using civilian engines and using classical technology. Without supersonics, stealth and other crap. For a war there must be a lot of aircraft... But if you look at it soberly, then I would throw all my efforts into modernizing what we have and speeding up the rearmament of the Military Air Forces. In the end, the United States is already launching its new missile launchers from transport workers. And now we need BTA planes like we need air.
                      3. 0
                        April 27 2024 11: 18
                        Quote: bayard
                        The numbers are really large, but the same AI-20 also had a resource of up to 40 flight hours. And I immediately thought that our “Bears” would have another 000 years to fly with such engines.

                        The Tu-95MS has an assigned resource of 5000 hours. 10-15 years fly by, and then that’s it.

                        Quote: bayard
                        We tried. There were reports and articles even published on VO. And “news from the fields” reported problems with adapting air intakes and organizing air replenishment.

                        These reports and articles are only the author's fiction. We saw the news about the resumption of production of the NK-32, learned about the existence of the Tu-22M3 no. 4504, and now there’s a sensation.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And about the problems with the resource of the remaining gliders, which they cannot assemble from the remaining 30 pieces. for a batch being upgraded to M3M.

                        This is the work of one commentator on VO, he even noted in this topic, new nickname Vitov. And when you ask him directly about the resources of the Tu-22M3, he is silent.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Even the monument from the plant was taken away

                        It's in the same place.

                        Quote: bayard
                        The novelty factor is too high

                        We have already built flying wings, and it is unlikely that the airframe will be more complicated than that of the Tu-160, but there should be no problems with the rest.

                        Quote: bayard
                        But if you look at it soberly, then I would throw all my efforts into modernizing what we have and speeding up the rearmament of the military aviation aviation.

                        I would devote these forces to the production of special aircraft. In the same submarine the situation is catastrophic.
                      4. 0
                        April 27 2024 14: 31
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        I would devote these forces to the production of special aircraft. In the same submarine the situation is catastrophic.

                        PLA aircraft (and other special ones) are best made on the basis of the Tu-214R. But you need the actual hardware. Water hump detection radar, lidar, new sonobuoys. Yes, everything needs to be redesigned, but there is NO work on such important machines. But their production still does not require any new aircraft; the Tu-214 is a completely suitable base.
                        But there is no average BTA aircraft.
                        There is no BTA light aircraft.
                        And heavy IL-76MD90A are released as if under torture. Like piece production.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        The Tu-95MS has an assigned resource of 5000 hours. 10-15 years fly by, and then that’s it.

                        During these 10-15 years, you need to have time to design and build a replacement for them. And it’s hard to believe in such labor feats of today’s people.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        We have already built flying wings, and it is unlikely that the airframe will be more complicated than that of the Tu-160, but there should be no problems with the rest.

                        We promise to build the Tu-160M ​​at a rate of 3 aircraft per year. If we build PAK YES at this rate, then we will be building the series required for videoconferencing until the end of the 21st century. After all, the author’s proposal to build a “mobilization bomber” came from the realization of the inability of the modern Russian Federation and its leadership to build complex aircraft. This is precisely what makes us want to offer something simpler. According to ability. By the brain. Hands down to the new generation - the children of the "Pepsi generation".
                      5. +1
                        April 30 2024 09: 18
                        Quote: bayard
                        PLA aircraft (and other special ones) are best made on the basis of the Tu-214R

                        This is what was intended.

                        Quote: bayard
                        But you need the actual hardware. Water hump detection radar, lidar, new sonobuoys. Yes, everything needs to be designed again, but about work on such important machines NO

                        Some work is being done, but attention to it is insufficient.

                        Quote: bayard
                        But there is no average BTA aircraft.
                        There is no BTA light aircraft.

                        The Il-76 can cover the niche of the An-12/An-70, as long as there are enough of them.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And heavy IL-76MD90A are released as if under torture. Like piece production.

                        Last year we passed 6, which is a good pace these days. But in my opinion, these should not have been 6 transporters, but, say, 4 tankers and 2 AWACS.

                        Quote: bayard
                        During these 10-15 years, you need to have time to design and build a replacement for them.

                        Vital.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Hands down to the new generation - the children of the "Pepsi generation".

                        You shouldn’t be saying that, there are young workers, but there are no managers capable of creating conditions to employ them.
                    2. 0
                      April 25 2024 12: 02
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      The AI-20 is also not made with fingers; in terms of the ratio of thrust to power it will be even better than the NK-12.

                      What an interesting indicator. I've never heard of this one. Where did you get this from?
                      1. 0
                        April 25 2024 18: 48
                        Yes, it seems that dividing one quantity by another is not yet prohibited.
                        The same AI-20M with AB-68I has 3780 hp. are converted to 3920 kgf.
                      2. 0
                        April 25 2024 19: 16
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Yes, it seems that dividing one quantity by another is not yet prohibited.

                        But what is the physical meaning of such a division? For a turboprop engine, thrust is a characteristic not of the engine, but of the propeller-engine system.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        The same AI-20M with AB-68I has 3780 hp. are converted to 3920 kgf.

                        The Mi-8 helicopter has two engines with a total power of 4000 hp. At the same time, thrust (if measured by take-off weight) is up to 13000 kgf. What conclusion can be drawn? Super engines?
                      3. 0
                        April 25 2024 21: 34
                        Quote: DenVB
                        What conclusion can be drawn? Super engines?

                        Superscrew.
                        You definitely can’t install a thread of that diameter.
                      4. 0
                        April 27 2024 11: 37
                        Quote: DenVB
                        But what is the physical meaning of such a division?

                        Efficiency of converting power into thrust under starting conditions.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        For a turboprop engine, thrust is a characteristic not of the engine, but of the propeller-engine system

                        The propeller is created for a specific engine; it is an integral part of the power plant.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        The Mi-8 helicopter has two engines with a total power of 4000 hp. At the same time, thrust (if measured by take-off weight) is up to 13000 kgf. What conclusion can be drawn?

                        A person does not understand the difference between a main rotor and a traction rotor.
                      5. 0
                        April 27 2024 11: 44
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Efficiency of converting power into thrust under starting conditions.

                        But planes don't fly under starting conditions.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        The propeller is created for a specific engine; it is an integral part of the power plant.

                        The screw is created for certain conditions. First of all - for a certain speed. As you know, as the speed increases, the efficiency of the propeller decreases.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        A person does not understand the difference between a main rotor and a traction rotor.

                        What kind of person is this?
                      6. 0
                        April 30 2024 10: 15
                        Quote: DenVB
                        But planes don't fly under starting conditions.

                        Takeoff is a stage of flight.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        The screw is created for certain conditions. First of all - for a certain speed. As you know, as the speed increases, the efficiency of the propeller decreases.

                        As speed increases, propeller thrust decreases, and the efficiency of converting power into thrust in cruising mode can increase.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        What kind of person is this?

                        DenVB, which gives an example of a mechanism for another purpose.
                      7. 0
                        April 30 2024 12: 01
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        DenVB, which gives an example of a mechanism for a different purpose.

                        This is a mechanism with exactly the same purpose - to convert engine power into thrust through a propeller. And here’s the mystery - it somehow exceeds in your indicator - “thrust to power ratio” - the AI-20M you cited with the AB-68I by more than three times.

                        And if you think about the reasons for such record-breaking “efficiency”, then you may understand that the point here is not at all in the engine.
                      8. 0
                        Today, 14: 44
                        Quote: DenVB
                        This is a mechanism with exactly the same purpose - to convert engine power into thrust through a propeller.

                        That is, in your opinion, the traction screw is intended to control the aircraft?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        And here’s the mystery - it somehow exceeds in your indicator - “thrust to power ratio” - the AI-20M you cited with the AB-68I by more than three times.

                        The purpose is different.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        And if you think about the reasons for such record-breaking “efficiency”, then you may understand that the point here is not at all in the engine.

                        Where did I write about “record efficiency”?
                      9. 0
                        Today, 15: 08
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Where did I write about “record efficiency”?

                        I wrote about record efficiency, as is easy to see.
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        That is, in your opinion, the traction screw is intended to control the aircraft?

                        This kind of idle talk has already begun.
              2. osp
                0
                April 24 2024 01: 18
                You can forget about Taganrog.
                It is under Ukraine's nose.
                The plant was repeatedly bombarded with dozens of kamikaze drones.
                But other things can arrive at any moment.
                He is very vulnerable.
                Rostovsky and VASO try to pester me regularly.
                1. +2
                  April 24 2024 01: 55
                  This means that such production facilities need to be transferred to Siberia, along with their personnel. At least for the duration of the war. Buildings with today's materials and methods can be raised in a year and a half with all the infrastructure. If such a task arises, the issue is completely solvable. A plant means personnel and equipment. And buildings and infrastructure are being built quickly. You can even attract Chinese or Korean comrades for this.
                  The question is the need for this and the firm decision to play this game for the long haul.
                  At the moment, I don’t see such an urgent need to throw all our energy into a new bomber; it was more of a mental gymnastics. Now, first of all, we need combat aircraft. It is the production of military MFIs that needs to be increased at an accelerated pace. And military transport aviation. For this is logistics, maneuver, connectivity, prompt delivery of goods, transfer of equipment and personnel. Something urgently needs to be done about this, at least restarting production of the An-12 with the help of the Chinese. It can carry two NK-12s (their production has been resumed to modernize the Tu-95). In China, the An-12 is in the series under their index. For starters, you can even organize cooperation. But build at home in Siberia. And more . You will need up to 200 of these.
                  And in cooperation with Iran (they have a license), it is urgent to establish production of the An-140 under any designation. At least IL-140. This aircraft was developed by order of the Russian Ministry of Defense and with Russian money. The issue of cooperation with Iran has already been resolved, but extremely rapid implementation is necessary. Up to the mobilization of personnel for these projects. And this requires a completely different quality of government and organization of the industry.
      2. 0
        April 23 2024 14: 09
        Why do drug addicts need Alaska? Chukotka would be settled, and then they would open their mouths to Alaska
      3. 0
        April 25 2024 10: 16
        Hospada alternativeists stepped up:
        1. The Tu-95 was built in Kuibyshev, modified and equipped with equipment in Taganrog.
        2. No new NK-12s are being produced for them.
        3. No NK-93 can be revived, as it was a technology demonstrator. The direction is a dead end, and closed correctly. Similar projects of propeller-fan units in Europe and America are also closed. The only exception is the gearbox PW-1000, the results of which are very ambiguous.
        1. 0
          April 25 2024 13: 50
          Quote: Dozorny severa
          1. The Tu-95 was built in Kuibyshev, modified and equipped with equipment in Taganrog.

          Now in Taganrog they are carrying out a major overhaul and deep modernization of these aircraft, there were reports from there about this, including the installation of a new modification of the NK-12 engines during this modernization, with an improved service life, increased thrust, improved fuel efficiency and new propellers. There was also an article. If official propaganda lies, claims against it. But I think he’s not lying - the Tu-95MS fleet is quite large (more than the US combat B-52s), they are all being upgraded to MSM and they need quite a lot of engines. The old ones (like all military personnel) were not very good and cannot be repaired endlessly (this is from a report and article).
          So if the NK-12 was relaunched in series, then why not use it not only for modernizing the Tu-95. In terms of fuel efficiency, it is still the most economical engine of any turbofan engine. And almost twice. For military transport aircraft. At one time there was an An-20 project with two such engines, but to this day we do not even have a project for an aircraft to replace the ancient An-12. A transport worker should not be fashionable. The transporter must be reliable, load-carrying and be able to land and take off from unpaved strips. There will be no IL-276 or anything else like that and is not even expected. And there are problems with the production of aircraft engines (in terms of their mass production). All PS-90A go for IL-76MD90A and delays in their production, incl. due to delays in engine deliveries. Those that are close in thrust and suitable for this (with a payload capacity of 20-25 tons) will all be suitable for the MS-21. And there is no project for a medium-sized transporter. And the load on the VTA is growing, the planes are running out of service. So an average transport aircraft with two NK-12s could be a solution, and a very good solution at that. And with a payload capacity of 30 - 40 tons (the An-20 was supposed to have 40 tons), and with good fuel efficiency, and could be operated on unpaved airfields.
          Quote: Dozorny severa
          No NK-93 can be revived, it was a technology demonstrator. The direction is a dead end, and it was closed correctly.

          Wrong . And at the request and for a bribe.
          To the highest government official who closed the program.
          Quote: Dozorny severa
          technology demonstrator.

          No . A pilot batch of 11 such engines was produced. The engine has passed all stages of bench and flight tests. During the tests, it showed brilliant results, exceeding the design thrust (20 kg.s. instead of the design 000 kg.s.) In addition, a production line was ready to produce 18 engines per year. It was planned to install this engine on the Il-000-100 and Tu-96. The same engine should have been installed on the design bureau being developed by them. Ilyushin military transport aircraft coded "Elephant" (to replace the old An-400). So the engine was good. Very good . That's why the program was closed.
          Or maybe, in your opinion, the R-279V-300 was a bad engine?
          Which one was prepared for the Yak-201? And whose program was also closed by the same official?
          And now its next modification, the R-579V-300, is showing new thrust records during testing.
          Or is it also a lie?
    2. 0
      April 23 2024 08: 41
      Under the USSR, bombers were turned into passenger airliners; not vice versa, example: Tu-16>Tu-104. If we have a good stock of Tu-22 M3s left in storage, we need to pull them out.
    3. -2
      April 23 2024 10: 43
      Tu-20(214) is a good option.
      But even two engines are a luxury in today’s times; you need to make a multifunctional single-engine aircraft and at the same time a drone similar to the MQ-4C. Make it even larger than the American prototype, with a PS-90 engine. Then it will be both a reconnaissance aircraft and a bomber.
    4. +4
      April 23 2024 10: 45
      [/quote]The Tu-95 can replace an aircraft based on the Tu-204 (214).[quote]
      - try replacing the passenger Gazelle with a car based on the Niva. And this is easier.
  3. +13
    April 23 2024 05: 46
    Even in Soviet times, there was a kind of ridicule of the fact that the United States used the “very ancient” B-52. They say it can be used against an exceptionally weak enemy who does not have developed air defense. That is, in Africa, Latin America, Asia.
    It seems that now the concept of application has clearly changed.
    What is our problem? We do not and cannot have a new heavy bomber of any concept in the next 15-20 years. Taking into account the fact that the smell of gunpowder in the world is getting stronger every day, we are in a very disadvantageous position in terms of heavy bomber aircraft.
    Whether someone likes it or not, I will point out directly that the communists were right. No not like this. The communists are right.
    For more than 20 years, from the podium of the State Duma, they called for the development of the aviation industry. In unison with the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, the newspaper "Arguments of the Week" over and over again published sharp materials on the same topic, calling on the authorities to pay attention to the problem. In vain. By
    According to the established tradition, the “commies” were brushed aside like annoying flies.
    Like, with their delusional ideas, they prevent the country from being governed (read: rob it according to the law).
    As a result, which overnight [suddenly] became interesting to EVERYONE AT ONCE, we have practically nothing for large aviation. Neither for design, nor for production, nor for experiments in turning something into something.
    You can come up with an infinite number of brilliant concepts for the bomber we need so much, but there is nowhere and no one to make it [quickly, well, inexpensively]. And it looks like there’s nothing and nothing to do with it.
    1. +1
      April 23 2024 08: 01
      Quote: U-58
      We are at a very disadvantage in terms of heavy bomber aviation.

      But here we have quite the opposite. Not only that, no one in the world has such a heavy bomber and, dare I say it, strategic aviation. Except the USA. But with a fleet of such US aircraft, we look very good. Firstly, we have parity with them in terms of the number of aircraft.
      But!
      Their aircraft fleet is quite old. And these are not only dense B-52s, but also worn-out and almost at the limit of their service life B-1Bs. And even a small fraction of their B-2s are also very middle-aged. In addition, these elders are armed primarily with free-falling bombs. They have new missile launchers, but they are without nuclear warheads. And the range of these missiles is about 1000 km.
      What do we have?
      And with the same number of aircraft fleet, all our aircraft... firstly, are very much younger than the B-52, secondly, they have all undergone modernization and are in good technical shape, and thirdly, THEY ALL ARE ROCKET CARRIERS.
      That is, absolutely everything. And they are not carrying some funny missile systems with a range of 1000 km. , and very much even the X-102 with a range of 5 km. and a new missile cruise missile system based on it with a range of 500 km. And the Tu-7M500 is armed with the X-22. And soon an aviation version of the Zircon will appear with a range of up to 3 km. under the code "Hotness".
      And we have restarted the production of new Tu-160M2, new aircraft have already entered service with the troops and the rate will be 3 units each. in year . Not a dozen, of course, but in the USSR there are only 5 of them. built per year.
      So our Long-Range Aviation looks very fresh and zealous against the background of the American one. . But of course, the number of both us and them... is not large. And the rest simply don’t have this.

      With Aviaprom everything is the same - a cast-iron medal on Manturov’s neck for such merit. Especially for the failure with military transport aviation.
      1. +4
        April 23 2024 08: 27
        What I definitely agree with you on is that our aviation component of the strategic nuclear forces is at the level of the forces of a potential enemy.
        But the author’s material is a little different from that. And about the fact that in the current military conflict in the form of the Northern Military District and similar non-nuclear conflicts, we lack large carriers.
        Using TU-160 and TU-22M3 is comparable to using a club to kill mice and cockroaches. That is, somewhat wasteful. Both in terms of the resource and in terms of the safety of equipment as such.
        That is, high-explosive bombs and non-nuclear missiles must be carried by slightly different aircraft.
        But we don’t have any of those and don’t seem to be expecting them yet.
        1. +3
          April 23 2024 08: 47
          Quote: U-58
          High-explosive bombs and non-nuclear missiles must be carried by slightly different aircraft.
          But we don’t have any of those and don’t seem to be expecting them yet.

          Why didn’t you like the Su-34 and Su-24M2? There is no need for others for SVO.
          Long-Range Aviation is attracted to missile launches only in order to evenly use missiles of all types. But for the target it makes no difference whether the “Caliber” will hit it or the X-101. The warhead is the same. In addition, the long-rangers disposed of the entire old stock of CR (very large) in the SVO, which had to be written off and disposed of. And so everything went into action. And the pilots trained.
          Now, for Kh-101 strikes, the Tu-95 is usually used. It's easier and cheaper. And they usually take off with half the ammunition.
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 19: 57
            Quote: bayard
            Why didn’t you like the Su-34 and Su-24M2? There is no need for others for SVO.

            It’s as if we don’t have Su-24M2 laughing But they didn’t please because they weren’t noticed working in operational-tactical depth, although this is their main purpose.
            1. +2
              April 23 2024 21: 18
              Quote: Lozovik
              they were not pleased because they were not noticed working in operational-tactical depth, although this is their main purpose.

              Already noticed. But not in operational-tactical depth, but on the use of FAB with UMPC. They were equipped for this purpose and the pilots trained. Perhaps in test modes for now, but to ensure widespread use of such devices they will be quite useful.
              Quote: Lozovik
              It’s as if we don’t have Su-24M2

              Why don't you have it? This is an omission. An old but modernized horse will not spoil the furrow.
              1. +1
                April 23 2024 21: 34
                Quote: bayard
                Already noticed. But not in operational-tactical depth

                That's exactly where long-range aviation actually works.

                Quote: bayard
                on the use of FAB with UMPC.

                The UMPC provides a reference distance of about 40 km, and from a high altitude. Not a very suitable weapon.

                Quote: bayard
                Why don't you have it? This is an omission. An old but modernized horse will not spoil the furrow.

                M2 is the Hussar design and development project, the theme of the 2000s. They covered it up due to its dubious effectiveness at considerable expense.
                1. 0
                  April 23 2024 23: 25
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  The UMPC provides a reference distance of about 40 km, and from a high altitude. Not a very suitable weapon.

                  Actually up to 50 and even 60 km. , but behind the front line that’s exactly what it turns out (40). It depends on the type and rating of the FAB. And on the speed and height of the release.
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  M2 is the Hussar design and development project, the theme of the 2000s. They covered it up due to its dubious effectiveness at considerable expense.

                  I am not very good at modifications of the Su-24, but as far as I know the Su-24M, this is the basic version of this aircraft, and after that there was definitely a modernization, so I considered it incorrect to indicate the Su-24M index.
                  We (during my service) had Su-24s based in Kurdamir. The pilots were very resistant to rearmament from the Su-17 to this bird... there was even some kind of mystical aversion to it. More than a dozen pilots from the regiment immediately wrote reports for transfer and refusal to retrain. And as they say, it was everywhere then. The equipment was unstable. As aircraft technicians said, on average there are up to five electronic failures per flight. And then nothing seemed to happen - they arrived.
                  As long as the engines have resource remaining and there are tasks such as FAB with UMPC to throw, let them work and provide massiveness when the defense is breached. Su-34 and smarter ammunition can operate.
                  1. 0
                    April 24 2024 06: 54
                    Quote: bayard
                    Actually up to 50 and even 60 km. , but behind the front line that’s exactly what it turns out (40). It depends on the type and rating of the FAB. And on the speed and height of the release.

                    And so I rounded up. The aerodynamics of the original MPC are no worse.





                    Quote: bayard
                    and after that there was definitely a modernization, so I considered it incorrect to indicate the Su-24M index.

                    There was, but the designation remained.

                    Quote: bayard
                    More than a dozen pilots from the regiment immediately wrote reports for transfer and refusal to retrain. And as they say, it was everywhere then. The equipment was unstable. As aircraft technicians said, on average there are up to five electronic failures per flight.

                    That's for sure, the Su-24 is the quintessence of unreliability and difficulty in operation. It is characterized very well by the entry: “pre-flight preparation time under the conditions of the MIS exhibition is up to 80 minutes.”
                    1. +1
                      April 24 2024 14: 18
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      And so I rounded up. The aerodynamics of the original MPC are no worse.

                      Even at my quick glance, the aerodynamics are worse, the aerodynamic braking will be large, the wings are irrationally located (compared to what is currently in service), and most importantly. Quote :
                      launch altitude - 200 - 10 m.
                      launch speed - 500 - 1100 km/h.
                      And from what height do we now throw FABs from UMPC?
                      14 m.!!
                      And at what speed?
                      1500 - 1900 km/h.
                      Now do you understand why the difference?
                      So the Su-24 is quite capable of throwing these bombs from such a height and at such speed.
                      In addition, they are now experimenting with attaching a jet engine to the FAB data. To fly 100 km. And for this you can adapt engines from NUR aviation.
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      "pre-flight preparation time under the conditions of the MIS exhibition is up to 80 minutes."

                      It's creepy, of course. But if you put a regiment per direction to ensure massive use when breaking through the defense in a separate area, there will be benefit. And it will unload the Su-34 for more delicate work.
                      1. +1
                        April 25 2024 18: 27
                        Quote: bayard
                        Even at my quick glance, the aerodynamics are worse, the aerodynamic braking will be large, the wings are irrationally positioned

                        The area of ​​the washed surface in this version is smaller, and the wing is more advanced - all-moving, with geometric twist.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And from what height do we now throw FABs from UMPC?
                        14 m.!!
                        And at what speed?
                        1500 - 1900 km/h.

                        Specially clarified:



                        and the maximum range is 50 km without taking into account the wind, I was slightly mistaken wink

                        Quote: bayard
                        In addition, they are now experimenting with attaching a jet engine to the FAB data. To fly 100 km. And for this you can adapt engines from NUR aviation.

                        NAR engines are not well suited for this - they are long, operate for several seconds, and have a specific starting principle.
                      2. 0
                        April 25 2024 20: 01
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        and the maximum range is 50 km without taking into account the wind, I was slightly mistaken

                        It also depends on the caliber/weight of the bomb. As far as I understand, the heavier FAB-1500s fly up to 60 km. (This has already been confirmed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces many times).
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        NAR engines are not well suited for this - they are long, operate for several seconds, and have a specific starting principle.

                        Well, this is me offhand, it’s clear that specially designed ones will be better. But I saw “homemade articles” from the USA on this topic, and they seem to be exactly like that - narrow and long, sticking out like a handle in a shovel. Now is the time for such creativity, and the engine is asking for it. Because it will allow for 100 - 110 km. throw such gifts. So they cast a spell.
                      3. 0
                        April 27 2024 11: 29
                        Quote: bayard
                        It also depends on the caliber/weight of the bomb.

                        Of those used with UMPC-500, the range depends on the shape. FAB-500M-62 is the best of them, with the rest the range will be shorter. But even these create huge problems for the enemy.

                        Quote: bayard
                        As far as I understand, the heavier FAB-1500s fly up to 60 km. (This has already been confirmed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces many times).

                        Alas, I don’t have data on 1500 caliber.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Now is the time for such creativity, and the engine is asking for it. Because it will allow for 100 - 110 km. throw such gifts. So they cast a spell.

                        They've already figured something out.

          2. 0
            April 23 2024 19: 58
            Quote: bayard
            Why didn’t you like the Su-34 and Su-24M2? There is no need for others for SVO.

            It’s as if we don’t have Su-24M2 laughing But they didn’t please because they weren’t noticed working in operational-tactical depth, although this is their main purpose.
      2. +1
        April 23 2024 09: 59
        Regarding the production of Tu160, I already wrote that, unfortunately, we have not yet assembled a single strategist made from scratch. What was launched was made from reserves. When the new one comes out, there will be reason to rejoice.
        1. +3
          April 23 2024 15: 14
          Quote: Apis1962
          We have not yet assembled a single strategist made from scratch.

          As far as I heard, there were only two center sections in stock and they were put into use a long time ago. What new Tu-160M ​​were they talking about at USC and showing the delivery to the media? I understand that there is some groundwork at the factory, they were preparing it for a series of 100 such aircraft, but components and some initial assemblies are one thing, but this is definitely not a finished aircraft. Or do you want to say that to this day they have not learned how to cook center wings? And whose center sections and skeletons are on the stocks with which they are working? Modernization of the existing fleet? Still, 10 years have passed since the decision was made to restart production of the Tu-160M.
      3. -1
        April 23 2024 14: 18
        Quote: bayard
        They have new missile launchers, but they are without nuclear warheads. And the range of these missiles is about 1000 km.
        What do we have?

        Don’t you think that they have lost the competence to install nuclear warheads on their missile launchers? I think that they have not lost it, and if necessary, they will do it quickly enough. And the range of the JASSM-XR modification is 1600 km. With a nuclear warhead there will apparently be no less than 2500. Moreover, they are inconspicuous.
        1. +3
          April 23 2024 15: 06
          Quote: DenVB
          the range of the JASSM-XR modification is 1600 km. With a nuclear warhead there will apparently be no less than 2500. Moreover, they are inconspicuous.

          Will . But it cannot be compared with the X-102 (5 km). And with the new CR BD (500 km) too.
          But this is not about superiority. We are talking about the presence of approximately the same potential for strategic and long-range bombers both in our country and in theirs. That is, it is precisely in this component that we definitely do not look faded. And very reverent attention is paid to the fleet of our long-distance trucks.
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 15: 12
            Quote: bayard
            Will . But it cannot be compared with the X-102 (5 km). And with the new CR BD (500 km) too

            There is no special secret to increasing the missile range. If the Americans think they need it, they will do it (in fact, they are already doing it). The rocket simply increases in length, the resulting space is filled with fuel. You can also add conformal tanks.

            The only question is whether it is necessary. Intercontinental missile launchers were made back in the 50s. Then they refused, considering it unjustified.
            1. +2
              April 23 2024 16: 10
              Features of geography. The X-102 can be launched across the United States in the North Pole region, and the new missile cruise missile system can even be launched from its own airspace.
              Quote: DenVB
              The only question is whether it is necessary.

              We do not have military bases near US territory and the shortest and safest route is through the North Pole with a missile launch over it. And with the new cruise control database, it is not even necessary to leave the airspace of the Russian Federation. Took off, fired, sat down, reloaded and was ready again. We don’t have many long-range bombers (like the USA), so it’s not worth risking them in vain. But the United States has a lot of military bases near our borders and the flight of their bombers is not threatened by the deck of our non-existent aircraft carriers. So our YES route is only through the Pole, and their strategists - from any angle. That’s why we have such long-range missiles.
              Quote: DenVB
              Intercontinental missile launchers were made back in the 50s.

              We did. And they were supersonic. But neither we nor they turned out well, and they relied on ICBMs.
              So we have parity in long-range aviation. We have an air fleet in better shape and longer-range missiles; they have bases all over the world.
              1. -3
                April 23 2024 17: 05
                Quote: bayard
                So our YES route is only through the Pole, and their strategists - from any angle.

                That's it. So why do they need a range of five thousand kilometers? She didn't give in to them.
                1. +4
                  April 23 2024 17: 24
                  Vice versa . Targets must be hit in the United States, with Canada in front of them. NATO fighters will be waiting in the air. Therefore, missile launches must be carried out outside the range of their fighter aircraft, i.e. just in the area of ​​the Pole. And targets must be hit throughout the entire depth of US territory. That is why the missile range was chosen as such. As a result, our bombers can return to their airfields just in time for their missiles to hit targets in the United States.
                  What gives the CR BD with a range of 7 km. ?
                  This is a time gain of 4-5 hours of flight time. In fact, after takeoff, a bomber flies for one or two hours to the launch line (or even less), carries out launches and then reloads. If a new batch of missiles is already in position and waiting for suspension, then soon the bomber will take off again and launch. And if reloading is carried out at jump airfields, then launches can be made almost immediately after takeoff... And a new reload.
                  And the missiles will fly by themselves and do everything right.

                  By the way, the Aerospace Forces has a new stealthy missile system, the X-50, with a range of 2500 km. , but much more compact than the old X-55. Looks like a smaller/shortened X-102. The same Tu-160M ​​can take 24 such missiles into its internal compartments. - on 4 reels. They are simply shorter, and the length of the weapons compartments was made with a margin. In the future, under a cruise missile with a range of up to 10 km.
                  And this despite the fact that according to the New START Treaty, one bomber is counted as one warhead.
                  1. 0
                    April 23 2024 17: 31
                    Quote: bayard
                    Conversely

                    I asked - why do they need such a range? I mean - to the Americans. You presented their lack of long-range missiles as their weakness. And then you yourself admit that they don’t need them.

                    Quote: bayard
                    In fact, after takeoff, a bomber flies for one or two hours to the launch line (or even less), launches and then reloads

                    In fact, a strategic bomber is not particularly needed here. Even the An-26 could do all this.

                    Quote: bayard
                    And the missiles will fly by themselves and do everything right.

                    There are two caveats here:
                    - if the Americans give our strategists the opportunity to take off and launch these missiles;
                    - if these missiles flying slowly and sadly at 7500 km reach their targets.
                    1. +3
                      April 23 2024 18: 07
                      Quote: DenVB
                      I asked - why do they need such a range? I mean - to the Americans. You presented their lack of long-range missiles as their weakness. And then you yourself admit that they don’t need them.

                      The Americans themselves decide what they need and what they don’t. I compared the state, composition and capabilities of strategic aviation fleets in the Russian Federation and the USA. I repeat - our fleet is fresh and in relatively better technical condition. Our missiles are longer-range and stealthy. The range of the new US missile defense systems is even slightly less than the range of their Cold War missile systems.
                      In addition, to fully assess the situation, it is worth adding that the United States has adopted missile launch systems using the method of dropping a PC block with a parachute from transport aircraft. And in the Russian Federation, the suspension and combat use of such missiles as the Kh-102 with the Su-34 and heavy MFIs (Su-30SM and even Su-35S) have been developed. Those. The issue with the use of CR DB is somewhat broader.
                      Quote: DenVB
                      There are two caveats here:
                      - if the Americans give our strategists the opportunity to take off and launch these missiles;
                      - if these missiles flying slowly and sadly at 7500 km reach their targets.

                      There are counter clauses:
                      - if a preemptive strike by the Russian Federation allows the United States to do this,
                      - if after this (or retaliatory) strike the American airfields survive, from which their fighters should take off to intercept our missiles,
                      - if the leadership of the Russian Federation, in light of such threats, does not make such a radical decision on the United States and the NATO bloc, after which there will be no such countries left... even without the launch of these missile launchers. They will remain as insurance for stability in the post-apocalyptic period.

                      Life is full of surprises.
                      You shouldn't pick on a stranger with a gun, even if you think you know him.
                      You do not know him .
                      1. -1
                        April 23 2024 18: 26
                        Quote: bayard
                        Our missiles are longer-range and stealthy. The range of the new US missile defense systems is even slightly less than the range of their Cold War missile systems.

                        Twenty-five again. We just decided that they simply don’t need long-range missiles, and then again we present this as their weakness. It is very doubtful that our missiles are “more stealthy”.

                        Quote: bayard
                        if a pre-emptive strike by the Russian Federation

                        Unscientific fiction.
                    2. +3
                      April 23 2024 18: 13
                      Quote: DenVB
                      slowly and sadly flying 7500 km

                      Do you think those to whom they will fly will have fun?
                      Or do you want them to broadcast “Comedy Club”?
                      They will fly no slower than their American counterparts.
                      1. -1
                        April 23 2024 18: 31
                        Quote: bayard
                        Do you think those to whom they will fly will have fun?

                        They won't have fun, but they will have a lot of time to find and shoot down these missiles. The cruising speed of these overloaded missiles will, I think, be around 600 km/h, no more. It only takes them ten hours to fly from the North Pole to Washington.
                      2. +1
                        April 23 2024 21: 08
                        Quote: DenVB
                        I think around 600 km/h, no more.

                        800-850, as expected for missiles of this class.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        they will have a lot of time to detect and shoot down these missiles.

                        These missiles should not and will never fly in the first echelon. The first to go will be ICBMs and SLBMs from the bases (which will not/will not have time to go to sea. They will, in addition to everything they are supposed to, take out fighter aviation airfields, where AWACS aircraft are based. When these missiles approach the United States, the sky will already be clear and free for the flight. But in the smoke and soot. And their (KR) target will be mainly infrastructure - military and civilian, energy, ports (insurance / finishing after ICBMs / SLBMs) ​​industry, military bases, storage bases, airfields (insurance), administrative centers, etc., etc.
                        In addition, Canada is traditionally responsible for the Arctic direction in the NORAD system, and it will also fly there.
                        Or do you think that the General Staff and the Aerospace Forces know nothing about breaking through and suppressing the air defense system?
                        And according to your own logic, Russia has nothing to fear from the American missile defense system. After all, they are just as slow, but their range will be shorter, their carriers will have to approach at a dangerous distance, and our air defense system is much better than that of the USA and NATO. But from our side we have never heard such nonsense as from you.
                      3. -1
                        April 23 2024 21: 36
                        Quote: bayard
                        800-850, as expected for missiles of this class.

                        It is unlikely. Their engine is the same as that of Caliber, and the launch weight is significantly greater. And for reasons of fuel economy and increasing range, it is advisable to reduce the speed.

                        Quote: bayard
                        These missiles should not and will never fly in the first echelon. The first to go will be ICBMs and SLBMs from bases (which will not/will not have time to go to sea

                        This will all be greatly reduced by the enemy’s first blow.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And according to your own logic, Russia has nothing to fear from the American missile defense system.

                        This is exactly what we should be afraid of. Their first CDs will clear the way for the next ones.

                        Quote: bayard
                        and our air defense system is far better than that of the USA and NATO

                        This doesn't come from anywhere. Their first air defense lines will already be over the ocean. Then over northern Canada. These will be AWACS and fighters. This air defense component almost doesn’t work for us. Usually he just doesn’t show up for the fight. Thanks to this, even dense concentrations of ground-based air defense, as in Crimea, are regularly broken through by not-so-massive air defense raids. I’m already silent about the unauthorized flights of drone aircraft a thousand kilometers deep into our territory.
                      4. 0
                        April 24 2024 02: 51
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Their engine is the same as that of Caliber, and the launch weight is significantly greater. And for reasons of fuel economy and increasing range, it is advisable to reduce the speed.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        around 600 km/h

                        After writing this, you better shoot yourself and not disgrace yourself. Especially when communicating with the combat control officer of the air defense formation. In past . Back in the USSR.
                        What do you know about the lift of a wing and what kind of wing is needed for this rocket to maintain a speed of 600 km/h. Can you imagine the size of the wing? Now look at the size of the X-101 wing, it’s affordable.
                        One engine can have many modifications. And each modification has several operating modes. Of course, you haven't heard about this either. I will reveal it to you secretly. One of the modifications of this engine is even installed on the small X-35 (650 kg starting weight).
                        The speed (marching) of all missiles of this type is within the range of 820 - 850 km/h. And at the target they usually accelerate to 900 - 950 and even 1000 km/h. It is at these cruising speeds that the turbojet engine operates most economically. And the wings can be set small.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        This will all be greatly reduced by the enemy’s first blow.

                        How can you, with such erudition, know who will thin out whom, how and with what?
                        Do you know the level of combat readiness of the entire Minuteman-3 fleet in the USA?
                        Near-zero. They are as old as mammoth droppings and were made back in the early 70's!!
                        Reloading TT checkers in stages made it possible to maintain their combat readiness for a long time, but there is a factor of general aging and fatigue of materials. Sand pours out of them and they are probably very much older than you.
                        And there are 450 of them in the state and on the lists.
                        Only SSBNs and their Trident 2 SLBMs remain.
                        A good rocket, but also very old. The last of them were collected in the early 90s. And if in the USA their condition was maintained at the proper level, then the English Trident-2 were neglected all this time. What state they are in now everyone saw in the footage of the last launch of such a missile by the British... And this despite the fact that this test launch was postponed for a YEAR and the missile was intensively prepared. Can you imagine what happened to the rest? As with their SSBNs themselves.
                        The French have the latest SLBMs in NATO.
                        So the United States and NATO do not have many combat-ready means to work in our deep rear areas. We are seriously better at this.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        This is exactly what we should be afraid of. Their first CDs will clear the way for the next ones.

                        Well, this is a common thing. Where can they fly with such a limited range? Our airfields are deep in the rear and during the threatened period the planes are dispersing.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        the first air defense lines will already be over the ocean. Then over northern Canada.

                        Hundred-Stop. Over which ocean is the young man going to build boundaries? Drive an aircraft carrier into the perennial pack ice of the Arctic Ocean?
                        Even icebreakers don’t go there. Even atomic ones.
                        Or you will teach polar bears on an ice floe how to handle Petros/iots... and they won’t help... So the first line will be over the Arctic part of Canada. If they can find it in time. The CD over the Arctic, through the Northern Lights, is very difficult to read from satellites. And the very fact of the launch may not be noticed - you never know what the Russian “Bears” are circling off their coast...
                        Quote: DenVB
                        This air defense component almost doesn’t work for us. Usually he just doesn’t show up for the fight. Thanks to this, even dense concentrations of ground-based air defense, as in Crimea, are regularly broken through by not-so-massive air defense raids.

                        Young man, I myself live in Donetsk and I know better than you HOW our air defense works. And I’ll tell you as an old air defense specialist - on the whole it works very well. Especially on our flat terrain. It’s more difficult with Crimea, especially from that angle. Especially with such information support and target designation as the enemy. We cannot shoot down their AWACS aircraft and their (NATO) strategic reconnaissance UAVs. In addition, the Crimean Mountains factor. And how do you know the percentage of our air defense misses? How many missiles are shot down before one or another breaks through?
                        Moreover, everything is learned by comparison. Compared to NATO air defense, our air defense is at an unattainable height. And we see what their air defense is worth on used ones. Do you have any idea of ​​the percentage of MLRS missiles intercepted? These are difficult targets and a huge expense for missiles. NATO certainly can’t do that. So don’t idealize their air defense and don’t underestimate ours.
                        And the war that is going on is a conflict with many restrictions and conventions. All their AWACS aircraft within their reach/line of sight (which is no more than 400 km) will be knocked out in the very first hours/days of the real conflict. And our aviation with long-range R-37M, which can attack such low-maneuverable targets at a range of up to 400 km. are working. And without external control and target designation, their aviation goes blind. The fighter turns on its radar - it’s immediately visible like a beacon in the night. We have much more powerful air defense, long-range missiles, including explosives.
                        But since this will be a nuclear conflict, all their airfields will be taken out in the very first hours of the war. Only those who managed to take off will remain, but it will be difficult for them to find where to land.
                      5. 0
                        April 24 2024 12: 34
                        Quote: bayard
                        After writing this, you better shoot yourself and not disgrace yourself

                        Here I should insert a “facepalm” emoticon, but for some reason I can’t find one in the set.

                        Quote: bayard
                        The speed (marching) of all missiles of this type is within the range of 820 - 850 km/h.

                        Even Wikipedia says that the cruising speed of the Kh-101 rocket is 190-200 m/s. My calculator tells me that in kilometers per hour it would be 684-720. And this is by no means for the mythical range of 7500 km.

                        Quote: bayard
                        So the United States and NATO do not have many combat-ready means to work in our deep rear areas

                        Another mischief. Even if three quarters take off and half of their strategic arsenal flies, it will be very painful for us.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Hundred-Stop. Over which ocean is the young man going to build boundaries?

                        Has rudeness become second nature to you?

                        Quote: bayard
                        Drive an aircraft carrier into the perennial pack ice of the Arctic Ocean?

                        Have you, as an air defense officer, never heard anything about Thule, Elmendorf and Eielson air bases? "Raptors" from these bases, when refueling in the air, are quite capable of covering the entire border from Alaska to Greenland. And if they have prepared “jump” airfields on the northern coast (I have not heard of such, but there is nothing impossible about this), then refueling may not be necessary.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And what is their air defense worth, we see it on a used one?

                        I have already written to you what their air defense will be based on against cruise missiles flying from the Arctic. But you forgot. Let me remind you that there is none of this in Ukraine. For now, anyway.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Compared to NATO air defense, our air defense is at an unattainable height

                        Our air defense demonstrates a persistent inability to interact with our own air force. Moreover, this inability has not changed at all since 1960, when our interceptors, flying after Powers, dodged our own anti-aircraft missiles. Not entirely successful.

                        Quote: bayard
                        All their AWACS aircraft within their reach/line of sight (which is no more than 400 km) will be knocked out in the very first hours/days of the real conflict.

                        Over northern Canada?

                        Quote: bayard
                        But since this will be a nuclear conflict, all their airfields will be taken out in the very first hours of the war

                        In the event of a retaliatory strike, it is pointless to waste surviving ICBMs on attacks on empty airfields.
                      6. +1
                        April 24 2024 23: 10
                        Quote: DenVB
                        In the event of a retaliatory strike, it is pointless to waste surviving ICBMs on attacks on empty airfields.

                        What if this is not a retaliatory strike?
                        Let's say proactive?
                        And there are more and more reasons for this.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Have you, as an air defense officer, never heard anything about Thule, Elmendorf and Eielson air bases?

                        Well, how can you not know? Our first goals, even before the launch of the missile launcher. If you feel sorry for ICBMs, then a pair of MiG-31s ​​with refueling and Daggers will be enough. Some may, of course, have time to take off, and even with refueling tankers, but they won’t be able to hang out there for long, because they will have nowhere to return and will have to look for a surviving airfield. And our bombers can, for the sake of decency, circle over the expanses of the Arctic, waiting for a clear sky for missiles and possibly changes in target designations based on additional reconnaissance materials of the hit and surviving targets in the United States. No one will definitely expose their missile launchers to interception. Just like flying to the shores of North America yourself.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        I have already written to you what their air defense will be based on against cruise missiles flying from the Arctic. But you forgot.

                        The backbone of US air defense has always been fighter aircraft. Only our aviation will take action against their Kyrgyz Republic. Of course, there are not enough AWACS aircraft, but fighters also have their own radars. Especially if they operate over their territory.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Our air defense demonstrates a persistent inability to interact with our own air force.

                        This has always been a problem - friendly fire, nervous conditions. I am sure that the United States and NATO also have similar problems. They simply did not have to fight against an enemy with strong air defense and long-range missile weapons in a low-intensity conflict. The war with NATO will be different. At one time, we were preparing for this.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        Over northern Canada?

                        AWACS aircraft over northern Canada are also based at airfields. In addition, the detection range of missile launchers made using stealth technology is not that great. This is not a fighter that can be detected at a range of 400-500 km. . For such missile defense systems, the detection range is unlikely to exceed 200-250 km. At best. And how many such flying radars will it take to cover the sky? And how long can they hang out in this sky? In case of nuclear war? And what if a fighter with a good range and refueling capability is deployed against such an aircraft (and the Su-57 has a good range) so that it can persuade its long-range P-37 from beyond the range of visibility of this radar not to worry?
                        You can come up with a lot of things if you have something to think about and something to send.
                        And there is also such a tactical technique as “Trail” ..
                        In any case, this will be a nuclear war, everyone will get it and different means will be used. And when you know that they are preparing a blow against you and want your death in any way, there is no doubt about using your own means. All studies of numerous scenarios show that any direct conflict with the United States and NATO will in any case develop into a global one. It will outgrow anyway.
                        So what are you waiting for then? Why open Overton's windows and vents and watch the enemy open them? What if the result is the same?
                        In-from.
                        The situation has reached the point where everyone is starting to think about a pre-emptive strike.
                        And this adds new colors to our dull reality.
                      7. -1
                        April 24 2024 23: 34
                        Quote: bayard
                        Let's say proactive?

                        It will never exist. This is impossible. Even if our grandfather remembers that he is not a grandmother and decides to launch a preemptive strike, Washington will learn about this decision earlier than the Strategic Missile Forces command. In our ruling elite, there are most likely not so many people who are not yet CIA agents.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Our first goals, even before the launch of the missile launcher. If you feel sorry for the ICBM

                        And since our strike can only be retaliatory (or counter-reciprocal), then this will not happen. And almost everything else that you wrote, too.

                        Quote: bayard
                        This has always been a problem - friendly fire, nervous conditions. I am sure that the United States and NATO also have similar problems.

                        But their planes are still not afraid to fly within the coverage area of ​​their own air defense.
                      8. 0
                        April 24 2024 23: 51
                        Quote: DenVB
                        In our ruling elite, there are most likely not so many people who are not yet CIA agents.

                        It's good that you think so.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        And since our strike can only be retaliatory (or counter-reciprocal), then this will not happen. And almost everything else that you wrote, too.

                        I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        But their planes are still not afraid to fly within the coverage area of ​​their own air defense.

                        Aerospace Forces aircraft constantly fly/operate within the coverage area of ​​their air defense. Friendly fire mistakes can be overcome with practice, and our air defense has had more than enough practice for 2+ years.
                        In addition, some cases of “friendly fire” may actually be something else.

                        If we were our enemies, I would not want our decision makers to decide that it is no longer worth delaying. After all, the algorithms for such decisions were written a long time ago and they (the enemies) did not read them. But we have more and better means for the final decision.
                        Simply because they have more of everything else.
                        This is an asymmetrical answer.
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Even if our grandfather remembers that he is not a grandmother

                        Funny . People in the occupied Northern Black Sea region love this joke.
                      9. 0
                        April 23 2024 20: 47
                        They will fly no slower than their American counterparts.

                        The Americans do not consider the CD as a means of disarming a nuclear strike. For this they have Tridents. They will definitely fly much, much faster.
    2. +5
      April 23 2024 08: 53
      One nuance kills all your writing. Dropping bombs from a bomb bay directly onto an enemy's head and throwing them at an enemy hundreds of miles away is not the same thing. There are no longer strategic bombers, there are strategic missile carriers.
      1. 0
        April 23 2024 09: 33
        So why is the production of heavy FABs with a planning module being resumed?
        1. +7
          April 23 2024 11: 10
          Even throwing heavy FABs is still more the task of front-line aviation, not strategists.
          Strategists in the depths of the enemy’s defense have nothing to do; they will not survive.
        2. 0
          April 23 2024 14: 04
          This is precisely why it is renewed, so as not to be thrown at people’s heads, but from afar. You have some logic at all, don’t you?
          1. 0
            April 23 2024 15: 44
            If you read all my posts in this topic sequentially, then there is direct logic.
            It seems that the thread was not lost.
  4. +10
    April 23 2024 05: 51
    With a combat aircraft everything will be much more complicated, with all these GOST standards and “letters” of ours

    I really liked it....
    The author apparently doesn’t know how design and manufacturing take place?
    or does he think that Boeing or Airbus have everything differently???
    We’ve been spitting “into the well” for 30 years, and now we need to “drink some water”?
    1. +2
      April 23 2024 08: 04
      Quote: Dedok
      We’ve been spitting “into the well” for 30 years, and now we need to “drink some water”?

      Well, let’s face it, it wasn’t us who spat, but Manturov and his Ministry of Industry and Trade. Now he is performing “labor feats” of import substitution... he hasn’t done it yet, but he promises that this time...
  5. +4
    April 23 2024 06: 01
    What is the author's idea? Mass production of Tu-204 and Il-96 bomber versions?
  6. +2
    April 23 2024 06: 06
    But a strategic bomber, whatever it may be, is unlikely to affect the outcome of the war - namely a strategic bomber, since it is possible that the American B-21 Raider is already something more than just a bomber, that it is something of a “flying destroyer” capable of autonomously fighting against ground, surface and air targets deep in enemy territory, but such a machine cannot be built “quickly and in large quantities.”

    Just a miracle of transformation!
    The authors of VO began to understand what everyone had guessed back in the 80s of the twentieth century.
    It is the flying destroyer URO. And the poor TU-160 (unlucky with the owners!) was basically seen that way. Amazing firepower + speed - this is a winged destroyer for you. Both the long-range air defense version and the launch of an orbital block in addition to the launch of cruise missiles along the coast and anti-ship missiles against ships - everything was provided for in this machine.
    In anticipation of the massacre in the Pacific Ocean, we need to stop fooling the public and releasing modernized versions of this machine. Just refine the option of external ventral suspensions for operation in Japan and Alaska due to less refueling and reduced combat radius.
    What are the chances of survival of strategic bombers in the event of a sudden disarming strike, with the flight time of nuclear warheads (NCU) of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) ​​being about 5-7 minutes? Even if the planes manage to take off, will they escape the nuclear explosion zone? Will the enemy really not think of adding 2-4 nuclear warheads along their possible course of movement, taking into account the danger of the “strategists”?

    Well, here everything is simple. The safety margin of a target attack aircraft and a civilian one converted into a “bomber” against a shock wave is not comparable. So the TU-160 and Tu-95 will most likely survive, but the “bombliners” will not.
    1. +2
      April 23 2024 08: 59
      The last paragraph really made me laugh...
      1. +3
        April 23 2024 15: 04
        And you, Igor Viktorovich, first take the sound barrier on the liner and maybe you will have time to understand what a shock wave and safety margin are. The B-52 and Tu-95 were tested by the shock wave of a nuclear explosion in real life. V-1 and Tu-160 - on models. And the airliner, tankers and transport workers will fall apart from such an impact.
        1. 0
          April 24 2024 05: 20
          Since when did they start using 52 and 95 sound barriers? Did I miss something..
          1. -1
            April 24 2024 07: 43
            Victor Leningradets:
            Well, here everything is simple. The safety margin of a target attack aircraft and a civilian one converted into a “bomber” against a shock wave is not comparable. So the TU-160 and Tu-95 will most likely survive, but the “bombliners” will not.

            Igor Viktorovich:
            The last paragraph really made me laugh...

            Victor Leningradets:
            And you, Igor Viktorovich, first take the sound barrier on the liner and maybe you will have time to understand what a shock wave and safety margin are. The B-52 and Tu-95 were tested by the shock wave of a nuclear explosion in real life. V-1 and Tu-160 - on models. And the airliner, tankers and transport workers will fall apart from such an impact.

            If you are hit by the shock wave of a nuclear explosion in the atmosphere, then it is supersonic. The B-52 and Tu-95 will withstand this, the KS-135 and Tu-214 will not. Of course, it depends on the pressure along the front, but the bomber’s margin is much higher.
    2. 0
      April 25 2024 10: 27
      Forgive and save... Why, in order to launch indoor rockets, have a glider and a configuration for multi-mode flight, including terrain-following? All these are extra tens of tons that must be subtracted from the payload.
      1. -1
        April 25 2024 16: 57
        To launch cruise missiles over your territory, you don’t need anything other than a transport vehicle equipped with a ramp for dropping cruise missiles. But to launch cruise missiles from one’s own territory, an aircraft is not needed at all.
        And an attempt to approach enemy territory on a bombliner loaded with cruise missiles will be severely suppressed, incl. nuclear weapons. The exchange of warheads will be in favor of the enemy.
  7. +11
    April 23 2024 06: 52
    The problem both in aviation and in the navy is that no one wants to really do it. To the point that they appoint as many people as managers and responsible people there as possible, but not professional design engineers and technologists. The main thing is the process of cutting money and not the creation of aviation and navy.
    For example, we poured so much money into the Northern Streams to no avail, but we could have used this money to completely recreate our civil aviation and completely modernize the Navy, with some left over for the automotive industry.
    Each aviation institute, in principle, can present its own design of a strategic bomber from which one or two can be selected as the best. Don't talk and get busy.
    If we can pay soldiers in the Northern Military District from two hundred to five hundred rubles a month, then we can pay several tens, hundreds of talented designers and technologists the same money. soldier
    1. +7
      April 23 2024 07: 32
      The problem both in aviation and in the navy is that no one wants to really do it. To the point that they appoint as many people as managers and responsible people there as possible, but not professional design engineers and technologists. The main thing is the process of cutting money and not the creation of aviation and navy.

      Absolutely spot on! They are led by people who do not understand what ship energy, heat balance, and their own needs are. They all have one question: where is it implemented and how much does it cost. The main thing is to get funding from the Ministry of Industry and Trade - and then the cut ends with failure in the finals.
  8. +13
    April 23 2024 06: 55
    What kind of manners are these, who told the author that everything is simple?

    There is simply only one thing: no industry or army in any country will be able to withstand the onslaught of the powerful foolishness of politicians with their incredible ideas of either “building into civilization” or “building out of...” which is incomprehensible because “we were deceived.”
    1. +6
      April 23 2024 07: 07
      PS In the USSR there was such a column in the media: “if I were the director...”

      Now, if I were a CIA agent, I would do everything the way we do it... Even dad Muller from “17 Moments...” explained that if there are no successful powerful breakthroughs forward, then the enemy is working here .
    2. +6
      April 23 2024 07: 20
      no industry or army in any country will be able to withstand the onslaught of the powerful foolishness of politicians
      To paraphrase a well-known aphorism: Politics is too serious a thing to be trusted to politicians.
    3. +5
      April 23 2024 07: 25
      April 19, 2024, meeting of the International Monetary and Financial Committee (IMF), Russian Finance Minister Siluanov: “Today there are two ways. You can break up into blocks and move along the path of deglobalization, which will not solve the problems, but will only aggravate them. Or move from fragmentation to the principles of globalization, remove barriers and restrictions that hinder growth"
  9. +9
    April 23 2024 07: 28
    Well, it’s good to dream, there’s no one to make these planes. The old staff are already or almost retired, and young people want to become bloggers and other similar riffraff. What is this all about? What planes, talk to young guys, many don’t even know that we are at war, they basically don’t watch TV, the news, they have their own world! Who is going to fight? 40+ with a few exceptions, in order to at least somehow improve life, close mortgages and loans. It was necessary not to miss the cultural layer into non-flying cans.
  10. +4
    April 23 2024 07: 29
    Well, actually, the Soviet analogue of the B-52 has appeared. And much earlier than 30-60 years ago. It was called Tu-95. And there were also 3m and m4. So everything with subsonic and non-noticeable strategists was (and remains) in relative order. There is no longer any need to throw free-falling and even gliding bombs from aircraft of this class. And, in our case, it was never necessary.
    The need NOW for a modernized analogue of the b-52/tu-95 is doubtful. For what purposes? Ukraine - no “strategists” are needed there. All their flights now are retribution for the sluggishness in creating ground-based missile launchers after the cancellation of the INF Treaty. The same goes for any hypothetical conflicts near our borders. In a nuclear war, exchanges of ICBM strikes in the first minutes will be decided, and not vulnerable strategists, whose air bases will be destroyed almost immediately
    1. +3
      April 23 2024 14: 25
      Quote: squid
      Ukraine - no “strategists” are needed there. All their flights now are retribution for the sluggishness in creating ground-based missile launchers after the cancellation of the INF Treaty.

      In general, launching a missile launcher from an air platform is more profitable. Both logistically and even economically. One Tu-95 replaces the Iskander division. Three or four Tu-95s - a missile brigade. Moreover, it replaces “with overlap” - air-launched missiles are heavier, and their range is much greater.
    2. -1
      April 23 2024 20: 52
      All their flights now are retribution for the sluggishness in creating ground-based missile launchers after the cancellation of the INF Treaty.

      Not certainly in that way. Or not even like that at all. The agreement was canceled, but the parties (mostly) respected it. Once we start making ground-based launchers, the potential enemy will also start making them. And he has everything ready for this.
  11. +1
    April 23 2024 07: 47
    It must be... small, stealthy, very fast and unmanned. With the task of delivering 1-2 missiles to the launch point and returning. As an option - not to return - becoming a kamikaze like the Swift. It is transported on a truck, assembled on site, and takes off from the road.

    Big and “strongly powerful” has become akin to battleships: beautiful on parade, but scary only for an obviously weaker enemy. And how much infrastructure and personnel the “giants” require. In the event of a serious conflict, huge problems will immediately arise with this.
    1. 0
      April 23 2024 10: 45
      It must be...small, stealthy, very fast and unmanned.

      This pepelats will be small and stealthy, but will not be able to carry a real combat load, will not have the proper range and will not be able to fly quickly.
      The Germans created an alternative to it in 1944. It was called A-2 Fi-103 (Vergeltungswaffe Eins). The main idea is mass production and simplicity.
      I am afraid that with our “achievements” we may find ourselves in the position of the Germans in 1944. And we will have to fight back with this, instead of using combat aircraft.
    2. +2
      April 23 2024 10: 59
      It's impossible to be very small. As it turned out, throwing bombs weighing 500, 1500 and 3000 kg is very important.
    3. 0
      April 23 2024 20: 55
      It should be... small, unnoticeable, very fast

      With the current state of technology, it can be either subtle or very fast. But to be both at the same time - alas, no.
  12. KCA
    0
    April 23 2024 08: 31
    "What are the chances of survival of strategic bombers in the event of a surprise disarming strike"
    It’s not even funny, what a sudden disarming blow? A general in the USA farted and everything that could fly flew? Preparations will take weeks, if not months, and we, of course, are losers and simply won’t notice anything? All strategic forces will be in readiness No. 1, strategic missile carriers too, most likely there will be a constant database in the sky, in different directions, 5000+ km range of the X-102 does not require flying over the North Pole for a salvo
    1. +6
      April 23 2024 08: 59
      Quote: KCA
      All strategic forces will be in readiness No. 1

      And most of them can be covered by a sudden blow. The flight time of an SLBM can be 15 minutes, while some time will be spent on detection/classification/recognition/departure order, that is, the regiment commander will have less time at his disposal. And even if all the planes are on duty with crews on board at takeoff, they won’t be able to raise the regiment in the remaining time - they simply won’t physically have time. During their exercises, the Americans had great difficulty removing regiments from ICBM attacks, and there the flight time was much longer. In our country, I have never heard of such exercises... personally
      Quote: KCA
      most likely there will be a permanent database in the sky

      There will be, of course, but at one time this is at most several aircraft per regiment.
      1. +4
        April 23 2024 10: 56
        Good day, Andrey!
        Apparently they got you, since you intervened in the dispute.
        In order to escape from the attack, it is necessary to push back the launch line by the required flight time.
        At one time, we tried to work out the task of SSBNs leaving the pier from the attack of AGM-86. Everything depended on the detection range of the missile launchers or their carriers.
        But against 15 minutes, aviation, especially one dispersed in advance, has a chance.
        1. +4
          April 23 2024 11: 56
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Looks like you're fed up

          Yes sir:))))
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          But against 15 minutes, aviation, especially one dispersed in advance, has a chance.

          Eat. If there are places where you can disperse, and if the process has been worked out to the point of automation. The problem is that it is difficult to disperse (in some cases the flight time will be 7-8 minutes) and since the collapse of the USSR I have never heard of an exercise in which a regiment of strategists would practice take-off and escape from a “dagger” nuclear strike
          1. osp
            +1
            April 24 2024 01: 25
            Here are British SSBNs in the North Sea. French in the Mediterranean.
            Well, of course, there are American ones everywhere.
            Now, if we take even the first case, then what is the flight time of SLBMs to the most important targets in the European part of Russia during a flat launch?
            To the bases of the Northern Fleet, but to airfields Yes, to the Plesetsk cosmodrome. .
            10-12 minutes from the North Sea.
            Maybe less.
      2. +1
        April 23 2024 10: 57
        Maybe I’m giving away some secrets, but this was 50 years ago, our Stiletto and Voevoda missiles, after receiving the order, are already in flight two minutes later, and the nuclear suitcase has nothing to do with it, a specially trained general on combat duty decides to answer himself or attack.
        How can you entrust a sick general secretary or a yap to the first president, or a drunkard with the fate of the world?
        1. +6
          April 23 2024 11: 52
          Quote: V.
          Maybe I’m giving away some secrets, but this was 50 years ago, our Stiletto and Voevoda missiles were already in flight two minutes after receiving the order

          Excuse me, do you take into account the difference in the lifting of an ICBM and a regiment of strategic missile carriers into the air? The rocket is completely ready for launch. Planes take off sequentially, waiting for the previous one to take off at a certain interval. There is only one runway.
          1. +1
            April 23 2024 12: 11
            Greetings Andrey. The world is not without good people and strategic intelligence. At the same time (I don’t know how it is now) part of the strategic aviation was constantly in the air, and not just in the air, but off the coast of the adversary with nuclear warheads, plus strategic submarine missile carriers.
            hi soldier
            1. +1
              April 23 2024 12: 36
              And good day to you! hi
              Quote: V.
              The world is not without good people and strategic intelligence.

              Of course. But the regiments will be raised into the air not on the basis of their data, but on the basis of information about a nuclear weapons strike. And the problems with emergency rise above the roof are more or less sensibly described here https://topwar.ru/181878-bombardirovschiki-i-otvetnyj-jadernyj-udar.html
              That is, yes, it is possible, but as a result of long preparation, special equipment and training. And we have...
              Quote: V.
              part of the strategic aviation was constantly in the air, and not just in the air, but off the coast of the enemy with nuclear charges

              The Americans have long given up being on duty in the air with nuclear weapons, and we have been flying EMNIP regularly for a long time (and it’s not a fact that with weapons), we are not on constant duty with nuclear weapons
              1. 0
                April 23 2024 19: 43
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                The Americans have long given up being on duty in the air with nuclear weapons, and we have been flying EMNIP regularly for a long time (and it’s not a fact that with weapons), we are not on constant duty with nuclear weapons

                We are not as repulsed as the Americans; we were not on duty with nuclear weapons on board either in the air or on the ground.
                1. 0
                  April 23 2024 19: 48
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  They were not on duty with nuclear weapons on board either in the air or on the ground.

                  To be honest, this is not Copenhagen at all.
                  1. +2
                    April 24 2024 12: 14
                    IMHO, from memory:
                    In the memoirs there were recollections that “in response to the aggressive actions of the NATO bloc, continuous duty of carriers with nuclear weapons in the air was organized.” This event was described as short-lived, as far as I remember, only a few months; extremely difficult for both personnel and equipment resources.
                    One of the peculiarities is that we were escorted out on departure with the Battle Banner and an orchestra unfurled, “there was a feeling that we were flying to war; the political and moral state was at its best, there was a readiness to die, but to complete the task.”
                    Date - first half of the 80s.
                    If I find it on the Internet, I'll post a link.
        2. +2
          April 23 2024 12: 05
          Quote: V.
          Maybe I’m giving away some secrets, but this was 50 years ago, our Stiletto and Voevoda missiles after receiving the order in two minutes already in flight

          The highlighted is the key. For rockets to take off, a launch order is needed. And for this, management must evaluate the available information, eliminate false positives of the SPRAU (otherwise there were pre-price-dents ©, yeah...) and develop a general solution - to all strategic forces...
          Quote: V.
          and the nuclear briefcase has nothing to do with it; a specially trained general on combat duty himself decides to respond or attack.

          Yes, yes, yes, the fate of the world is decided by ordinary generals.
          The only way out is to live in DEFCON1 under the control of Perimeter. To one day discover that the system has failed.
          Quote: V.
          How can you entrust a sick general secretary or a yap to the first president, or a drunkard with the fate of the world?

          Well, yes, it’s better to entrust them to professional military personnel. "Let's love China bonboy"MacArthur, for example. Or"let's achieve the beginning of the third world war"Lemay. wink
  13. +4
    April 23 2024 08: 54
    Our aviation makes very few combat sorties due to a shortage of missiles.
    Before the SVO, 1 missile per day was produced with a range of more than 300 km, including air-to-ground calibers and Iskanders.
    Now, apparently, production has been increased to 4 missiles per day (with production switched to 24/7) and the same number of operational-tactical missiles.
    Strategic missile reserves (completely or almost) ran out in the winter of 22/23; in conditions of an acute shortage of missiles, it is not advisable to think about new strategists. Tactical aviation began to be used again with the massive introduction of UMPC, although 100 bombs per day also does not correspond to the capabilities. 100 bombs per day for 56 fighter and attack squadrons of front-line aviation is very little.
    But strategists, in fact, do not fly at all. Up to 6 missiles per day for 120+ aircraft is practically nothing.
    1. KCA
      -2
      April 23 2024 09: 34
      I see that you are a specialist in the production of weapons, aha, if you start building a rocket a month ago, tomorrow it will be ready, one, but who starts assembling one rocket, a serial one? While one is being finished, there are a lot of pigs waiting in line
      1. -1
        April 23 2024 14: 34
        Quote: KCA
        While one is being finished, there are a lot of pigs waiting in line

        After all, they told you how many missiles we produce. You couldn't understand?
        1. KCA
          +1
          April 24 2024 07: 26
          Somehow, due to my mental abilities, it seems to me that the number of missiles produced is a state secret and for disclosure up to 20 years, or do you have a different sentence?
          1. -1
            April 24 2024 12: 39
            Quote: KCA
            Somehow, due to my mental abilities, it seems to me that the number of missiles produced is a state secret and for disclosure up to 20 years, or do you have a different sentence?

            You may not believe what is written. But should you be able to understand what is written? And the number of missiles produced is calculated (over a long period of time) by the enemy simply - by the number of missiles launched.
  14. 0
    April 23 2024 10: 04
    Yes, unfortunately, in the USSR, and then in Russia, there was no aircraft comparable to the American B-52 bomber - it’s really a pity that we didn’t borrow this concept.

    Hm! How is the Tu-95 inferior to the B-52, except for a slight difference in speed? Yes, and 3M, if you put dual-circuit engines on it.
    1. 0
      April 23 2024 19: 38
      Quote: Grossvater
      How is the Tu-95 inferior to the B-52, except for a slight difference in speed?

      Range, payload, flight altitude, airframe life.
      1. -1
        April 24 2024 12: 43
        Quote: Lozovik
        Range, payload, flight altitude, airframe life.

        As for the resource, that’s a question, of course. As far as I know, the currently preserved B-52s have only the power kit left from the ones originally made (and even then the question is whether it’s all). The casing has been changed completely, in some places and more than once.
        1. 0
          April 25 2024 18: 50
          The history of the B-52 is well covered, and modernization programs are known. Which of them had the covering changed and in what years?
          1. 0
            April 25 2024 19: 20
            Quote: Lozovik
            The history of the B-52 is well covered, and modernization programs are known. Which of them had the covering changed and in what years?

            As far as I remember reading, this is not a modernization, but an ordinary repair, not even a capital project.
            1. 0
              April 27 2024 11: 38
              Strange "ordinary repair". In what years was it held and where can I read about it?
              1. 0
                April 27 2024 11: 51
                Quote: Lozovik
                Strange "ordinary repair". In what years was it held and where can I read about it?

                I don't remember where I read this. But Google immediately returned, for example, this:
                The oldest parts of any B-52 are the basic metal structures deep inside the airframe—and those are “good bones,” to quote Gen. Robin Rand, former head of Air Force Global Strike Command.

                Everything else has been replaced at least once. Every four years, a B-52 spends a few months at Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma, where workers strip off the plane's paint, remove panels and inspect every component, repairing or replacing the broken ones.

                The most fragile element of a B-52 is the skin of its upper wing. Boeing replaced that skin on all serving bombers back in the late 1970s. ''I would be surprised if there's an original rivet in any of those airplanes we have out on the ramp,” Col. Robert Durkin, then commander of the 28th Bombardment Wing—a B-52 unit in South Dakota—told a reporter in 1983. “It's been re-winged. It's been re-skinned. It's been re-tailed.”

                Sources, moreover, from the eighties. That is, by that time the planes had already been rebuilt more than once.

                https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/09/27/the-us-air-force-is-gradually-rebuilding-its-b-52-bombers-from-the-rivets-out/?sh=2083dd494a35
                1. 0
                  April 30 2024 10: 41
                  This is a factory repair, the Tu-95MS is also undergoing this. Hatches and panels are removed in the same way and replaced if necessary, but not the entire “sheathing” as you write.
                  What exactly was changed can be clearly seen in the photo:

                  1. 0
                    April 30 2024 12: 08
                    Quote: Lozovik
                    Hatches and panels are removed in the same way and replaced if necessary, but not the entire “sheathing” as you write.

                    I never said that the sheathing is regularly changed all at the same time. However, they say about this plane, "it's been re-skinned."
                    1. 0
                      Today, 14: 50
                      Quote: DenVB
                      I never said that the sheathing is regularly changed all at the same time.

                      “Completely, in places and more than once” implies a more active replacement.

                      Quote: DenVB
                      However, they say about this plane, "it's been re-skinned."

                      It's just a catchphrase. In fact, as I wrote above, according to the modernization programs, not the entire casing was changed, but only the most loaded parts.
                      1. 0
                        Today, 15: 13
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        “Completely, in places and more than once” implies a more active replacement.

                        Not necessarily.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        It's just a catchphrase.

                        The phrase was said. Whether it's catchy or not is your personal opinion.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Not all cladding was changed under modernization programs

                        We have already talked about this.
  15. kig
    0
    April 23 2024 10: 11
    Timokhin seems to be a specialist in the Navy? Or is it already a station wagon?
  16. +2
    April 23 2024 10: 59
    It's probably worth developing. At a minimum, for developments in engines for large military aircraft with low IR visibility. It’s probably not worth releasing more than small experimental series (2-4). The state of the economy is not the same yet. The task here is to maintain a technological brand, so that there is up-to-date development of specialists on the topic, which can be deployed in different directions.

    In principle, there are contradictory points regarding “strategists” - for a “doomsday” war they are too vulnerable and too noticeable; for regional conflicts, the loss of such devices is always a strong blow, which greatly narrows their real capabilities relative to “potential”. It will not be possible to significantly reduce the ESR of such a bandurina - if now the air defense demolishes small plastic UAVs, then in the foreseeable future there will be progress in detecting and targeting targets with a similar low ESR and “stealth bombers” will no longer be “stealth”, and their high cost does not give the right to make consumables out of them.

    IMHO, for bombing missions, you need a stealth UAV designed for a unified bomb load (1 FAB 3000 or 2 FAB1500 or some other variations), specifically for this task. And produced in significant volumes. For the task of missile launches, in principle, I agree with Timokhin’s conclusions - a very expensive solution is not required. However, in principle, I would like to note that I am skeptical that in the event of a really serious war, these missile carriers will mostly reach the launch line, because we won’t provide many of them anyway, for the most part these are unhurried vehicles and, in our case, “white” figures, most likely , our enemy will move - he has good analytics, reconnaissance and dominance in the number of interception means. The other two components of the triad look much more reliable than the air one.
  17. +1
    April 23 2024 11: 17
    Quote: V.
    Maybe I’m giving away some secrets, but this was 50 years ago, our Stiletto and Voevoda missiles, after receiving the order, are already in flight two minutes later, and the nuclear suitcase has nothing to do with it, a specially trained general on combat duty decides to answer himself or attack.
    How can you entrust a sick general secretary or a yap to the first president, or a drunkard with the fate of the world?

    Yes, it is the commander who makes the decision, but only in a combat situation, when all the envelopes have been opened. Those who are on combat duty make decisions on notification.
    And the suitcase is to reassure the “partners”. For those who carried the database, this is an enemy, and not a conventional one.
  18. +4
    April 23 2024 11: 22
    The resumption of Tu-160 production is good. Like a classic bomber or a platform for the missile defense system?
    If it is a platform, then it is not optimal and expensive. If it's like a classic, it's useless.
    Its only advantage is that it has been proven and tested. Building a new platform for the Kyrgyz Republic (based on the Il-76 or Tu-204) is long and unrealistic given the low power of the current aircraft production. Although the need for the Tu-204 PLO has long been overdue.
    1. 0
      April 23 2024 12: 47
      The difference between the Tu160 and its subsonic analogue in terms of carrying capacity is 100 tons of weight. And it’s also big in terms of money and resources.
      Maybe, of course, supersonic technology has some radical advantages?
      1. 0
        April 23 2024 14: 36
        Quote: Zaurbek
        The difference between the Tu160 and its subsonic analogue in terms of carrying capacity is 100 tons of weight.

        How's that?
        1. 0
          April 23 2024 18: 09
          300 tons and 200 tons with the same range and carrying capacity
          1. -1
            April 23 2024 18: 22
            Quote: Zaurbek
            300 tons and 200 tons with the same range and carrying capacity

            What planes are you comparing?
      2. -1
        April 23 2024 15: 15
        The difference between a strategic bomber and a transport aircraft is the ability to carry out a combat mission and survive during combat operations. As soon as you try to strengthen the structure of the transport vehicle to withstand damaging factors, the entire reserve will disappear. At the same time, the transport vehicle will not gain either maneuverability or all-round capability. But in our realities, it will be able to do one thing: unload cruise missiles in the coverage area of ​​its air defense, i.e. slightly better than launching from a ground installation, but much more expensive and dangerous.
        1. +1
          April 23 2024 16: 01
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          As soon as you try to strengthen the structure of the transport vehicle to withstand damaging factors, the entire reserve will disappear.

          If we went damaging factors, then strengthening the structure will help about the same as reflective paint. The only salvation for the strategist is inter-airfield maneuver and preemptive takeoff.
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          At the same time, the transport vehicle will not gain either maneuverability or all-round capability.

          Are they needed? The strategist’s task is to remain on duty in the air, and upon receiving an order, go to the launch area and launch the ALCM.
          If the strategist is intercepted, then his only reliable defense is the BKO - the fighter and the missile cannot be maneuvered. And on a transport vehicle there is enough mass and volume so as not to cut the technical characteristics of the BKO for the sake of weight and dimensions.
          What the BKO of a large aircraft is was well demonstrated by Vietnam, where our 21st was forced to go on the attack at half-time visually - because turning on the radar immediately unmasked the fighter, and the airwaves were instantly clogged with interference, disrupting guidance and detection.
          1. -2
            April 23 2024 16: 39
            You reminded me about Vietnam, thank you.
            About damaging factors, you obviously meant air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles? Well, here you are right, nothing will help here except electronic warfare.
            But if they hit you almost blindly with a powerful charge, then with an energetic maneuver and occupying the course/echelon you can survive IF PROVIDED BY THE DESIGN.
            Yes, and the role of the MiG-21 in the fight against the B-52 is exaggerated in the press. They had no chance against massive raids, and even with escort. Their electronic warfare worked properly against air defense systems, but could not withstand a massive attack of anti-aircraft missiles.
            And again: where will you dump the cruise missiles? Over your territory? - easier with ground-based launchers. Yes, and such missiles take six hours to fly - they will be intercepted. If you go over the ocean, such a high-priority, visible target will probably be shot down.
        2. 0
          April 23 2024 17: 31
          Not necessary. The time spent in the air...may well replace it. And who takes off faster: a bomber with civilian filling or a strategist with unique turbojet engines is a big question.
      3. 0
        April 23 2024 21: 00
        Maybe, of course, supersonic technology has some radical advantages?

        No.
    2. 0
      April 23 2024 15: 27
      For simplicity, start fighting on the globe off the coast of China, Korea, the Kuril Islands and the Bering Strait. AUKUS has a fleet and carrier-based aircraft, but we do not. Plus two unsinkable aircraft carriers - Japan and the Philippines. Well, why fight them? But if you have a multi-role strategist (Tu-160 in various modifications) and a basic strategic carrier and Tu-95 anti-aircraft aircraft, then using the basing capabilities of these machines will make the task for the enemy many times more difficult. This does not mean at all that it is possible not to build a fleet and not develop basing. But today China is doing it better, and we are doing it better in the sky.
  19. 0
    April 23 2024 12: 43
    They have B-52, we have Tu-95 (MS). Everyone went their own way, the result is there. You can shout 100 times a day that the B-52 is better, but nothing will change - there are 2 strategists, and they carry comparable missiles. I don’t know how many aircraft will ultimately be upgraded into the Tu-95MSM, but how many are realistic needs to be done.
    1. +1
      April 23 2024 17: 33
      B52 and Tu95 - plus or minus one approach. A traditional subsonic aircraft with proven components with a high service life. That is why they have survived to our times. And they will live longer.
      1. 0
        April 23 2024 19: 29
        Well, the Tu-95 does not despair of its high service life. Of the three types of long-range aviation aircraft, the Tu-95MS has the smallest.
    2. 0
      April 23 2024 21: 04
      they carry comparable missiles.

      No. The missiles are completely different. Some nuclear, some conventional.
  20. 0
    April 23 2024 12: 45
    The bomber needs to be made with a large number of serial components from civilian airliners. And with an eye to the fact that in 20 years, replacing the old turbojet engine with some new one will not become a problem.
  21. 0
    April 23 2024 13: 00
    TB-3, maybe something at the B-17 level. This is the maximum that Russian industry can produce in the event of a global conflict, if there is a question about producing aircraft from scratch. Everything else is the wet fantasy of a 16-year-old teenager.
  22. 0
    April 23 2024 13: 31
    I don’t know how it is for anyone, but for me, if there is no fish, there is only cancer. If there is no new PAK YES, it does not mean doing nothing. Airplanes are becoming obsolete, if we don’t produce the ones we already have, we’ll end up with nothing but nothing, and no amount of wishful thinking will help. They will develop it, test it, put it into production - then stop the production of previous aircraft. And so you can dream until your heart’s content. In all the armies of the world, it is far from fresh to fly.
  23. +1
    April 23 2024 14: 39
    Andrey. Good afternoon. Good article. One caveat - no SLBM will fly anywhere in 5 or 7 minutes. At this time she will still be in OUT. The minimum flight range of Trident-2 is 7000 km, flight time is 25,2 minutes. The maximum flight range is 12 km, the flight time is exactly 000 minutes. In 37, according to a special program, a series (1989 launches) of test launches were carried out on NT at a range of 4 and 2000 km with the second stage turned off, but the results for the CEP parameter with a deterioration of 2200 times were extremely disappointing and they abandoned such launches even then. But even in this case, the flight time is 20 minutes.
  24. 0
    April 23 2024 14: 57
    Project Tu95 - development of the 50s (70 years). Tu160 - late 70s (45 years old, which, by the way, was created by Myasishchev as a response to the B1 developed in the early 70s). Tu22m3 - a little younger (40 years old).
    40 years are two generations of brains that worked and created new products. What was relevant, say, 45 years ago, is no longer relevant today.
    And while the amers quickly whipped up the B21, we sit, read and write what PAK DA should become. For probably 15 years now, if not more.
    1. 0
      April 23 2024 17: 37
      Each of the approaches B52-B1B, B2 is a reaction to the air defense capabilities of the USSR and the Russian Federation.
      It is not a fact that B2(21) jumped over the detection capabilities of S400 and S500.
      If we focus on Fighter Aviation such as F22-F35, Su57, I-20...then the truth is somewhere in the low supersonic cruising and stealth contours of the fuselage. But even the United States no longer has the strength to invest in a new concept.
  25. 0
    April 23 2024 15: 06
    Quote: forester
    I don’t know how it is for anyone, but for me, if there is no fish, there is only cancer. If there is no new PAK YES, it does not mean doing nothing. Airplanes are becoming obsolete, if we don’t produce the ones we already have, we’ll end up with nothing but nothing, and no amount of wishful thinking will help. They will develop it, test it, put it into production - then stop the production of previous aircraft. And so you can dream until your heart’s content. In all the armies of the world, it is far from fresh to fly.
    .
    Well, why “do nothing”. First, we need to conduct an audit of who made the decisions to appoint 27-year-old “major boys” to the post of general director of the aviation design bureau. Declare them enemies of the people and give them 20 years. And then start looking for who can actually design a new aircraft from scratch. And (unfortunately) there are not many of these left after 35 years of Tu and Il inactivity
    1. +2
      April 23 2024 16: 49
      I fully support the patriotic sentiment, but who will conduct the audit? People specially trained by the majors' daddies for a fraction of a share? Well, they will declare them not enemies of the people, but Heroes of Labor!
      Here within the system there are no moves. We need a non-system task and Elon Musk in terms of level. The rights are maximum - attract anyone, but meet the deadline, the reward in case of success is royal, but your head is in collateral.
    2. 0
      April 25 2024 11: 31
      Quote: AC130 Ganship
      who made the decision to appoint 27-year-old “major boys” to the post of general director of the aviation design bureau

      What design bureau was this?
  26. 0
    April 23 2024 21: 51
    As far as we know, the role of a strategist can already be played by the SU 57 (1 missile), and even the SU 34 (2 missiles). The brand of the missile has not yet been named, but it seems that it will be a shortened version of the X-101/102. The amers estimate the damage radius from 3500 km (is it clear, the sign follows?) So far, no one in the world has anything even close to this (JASSM-XR with a range of only 1800 km will fly at best in 2025) Taking this into account, why drive the extremely expensive TU 160, TU 22, etc. more PAK YES, when the much more multifunctional and cheaper SU34 can solve the same problems from Russian territory (for example, Chukotka)?
  27. 0
    April 23 2024 21: 54
    There is a massive aircraft for a missile carrier. This is Tu-214.
    Naval aviation needs an anti-submarine carrier based on the Tu-214 with a new sighting system, and the Navy also needs a long-range missile carrier in addition to the modified Su-34, but the comatose industry will not be able to quickly produce both aircraft en masse. This means we need an anti-submarine carrier with a bomb bay that can accept not only buoys and anti-submarine torpedoes, but also a revolving mount with existing anti-ship missiles. And we need a tanker based on the Il-96-400, because the Il-76 is not enough for everyone. And the 96s are being built in Voronezh at VASO. We need to revive this plant. Otherwise, the fleet will not be able to handle even a local conflict with the remnants of Soviet rarities and a handful of newly built ones.
  28. +2
    April 23 2024 21: 59
    Since I have little (23 years) experience in the development of aviation technology (in terms of avionics software), I will allow myself to express my modest IMHO on the topic.

    1. The development period for a new bomber based on an existing, as proposed, passenger or transport aircraft (any), with maximum use of existing equipment, software and other things, is 5-7 years before the first flight in a very successful scenario. Provided that tomorrow we have a ready-made design bureau with qualified personnel (not yesterday’s students) and equipped with everything necessary.
    2. Testing and deployment of the series - at least another 2-3 years in the best case scenario, the probability of which I assess as near zero, knowing from the inside how this is done and the situation in the industry as a whole.
    3. Assessing the situation as pre-war, in order to obtain the maximum number of bombers, now we can and must:

    a) Continue production of what we have, namely TU-160, at the maximum possible pace. With minimal modifications that do not affect the pace of construction.
    b) Raise the existing sides from conservation, everything that can be lifted with it, with the fastest possible modernization.
    c) Continue the development of PAK DA, but without fanaticism and acceleration, with the understanding that our children, and perhaps grandchildren, will see this beauty in flight.

    That's how it is, you understand hi
    1. +1
      April 23 2024 22: 10
      And yes, I forgot to add the most important thing: all the dreamers of crossing a hedgehog with a snake, innovators and other authors of the wunderwaffe should be sent to Siberia to clear snow/shot/impaled. What would it be like without this? wink
      1. 0
        April 25 2024 11: 33
        Quote: Olegi1
        all dreamers of crossing a hedgehog with a snake, innovators and other authors of the wunderwaffe should be sent to Siberia to clear snow/shot/impaled

        This must be done first, and as soon as possible.

        Yes, actually, this could be the end of it.

        After which we will immediately panic.
  29. osp
    0
    April 24 2024 01: 03
    Quote from buslaif
    So the Tu-95 has not been seen in a landfill for a long time. Late with the comment.

    Simple Tu-95s, just like naval Tu-95RTs, have been cut down long ago.
    So even the Tu-95MS-6 with the Osina PNK was also taken out of service.
    Only the Tu-95MS-16 with the Sprut PNK remained, which were produced from the late 80s to the early 90s.
    They are modernized and supported.
    And there are no other Tu-95s anymore.
  30. +1
    April 24 2024 15: 36
    Quote: DenVB

    In general, launching a missile launcher from an air platform is more profitable. Both logistically and even economically. One Tu-95 replaces the Iskander division. Three or four Tu-95s - a missile brigade. Moreover, it replaces “with overlap” - air-launched missiles are heavier, and their range is much greater.


    In fact, it's exactly the opposite. one flight by a strategist - hundreds of thousands of dollars. The carrier itself is extremely expensive - tu160, for example, costs about 400 million dollars. so both capital and operating costs are incomparably higher. Ground-based missiles can have any mass, but air-based missiles count every kilogram. well, the range for the cruise missile is almost the same - with a 5000 km range x101, the height and speed of the carrier will add almost nothing
    but that’s not even the main thing. sorties of both strategists and mig31k are recorded and the adversary has time to prepare. It’s risky to fly close to the front line, so the flight time increases, while ground-based guns can approach 50 kilometers from the front line. The reaction time is also not at all the same - the plane needs to take off and go to the launch area, but a ground-based gun can be on duty at the border for days and fire at any moment. In general, ground units in the Ukrainian conflict are tearing up air and sea units like a hot water bottle.
    1. 0
      April 24 2024 16: 26
      Quote: squid
      In fact, it's exactly the opposite. one flight by a strategist - hundreds of thousands of dollars

      Write millions then, why be modest?

      Even the B-52 costs about $60 per flight hour. Moreover, it also includes maintaining the aircraft on the ground. That is, the more planes fly, the lower the cost per flight hour.

      Tu-95 - it will burn 10 tons of kerosene per flight. Well, 20 maximum. This is about one and a half million rubles. Fifteen thousand dollars.

      Quote: squid
      Ground-based missiles can have any mass, but air-based missiles count every kilogram

      On the contrary.

      Quote: squid
      sorties of both strategists and mig31k are recorded and the adversary manages to prepare

      Should I wear slippers?

      Quote: squid
      a ground-based unit can be on duty at the border for days and

      wait for Himars to arrive. Or, now, also Atakms.

      By the way, do the missiles on these launchers materialize through telekinesis? Or do you need to bring it from somewhere? Recharge somewhere?
  31. 0
    April 24 2024 15: 40
    Quote: Sergey Sfyedu

    Not certainly in that way. Or not even like that at all. The agreement was canceled, but the parties (mostly) respected it. Once we start making ground-based launchers, the potential enemy will also start making them. And he has everything ready for this.


    Well, actually, the Americans made a ground-based typhoon missile a couple of years ago and are actively deploying them wherever they want.
    but even if it were your way, we would still need to make ground-based weapons, since the American/NATO army is an air and sea army. and ours is primarily land-based. so this agreement itself is initially not in our favor
  32. 0
    April 24 2024 18: 59
    author, don’t write nonsense!
    A direct collision with NATO means a Nuclear war and the complete destruction of Western countries and Russia!
    Everyone understands this, that’s why they haven’t attacked each other yet...
    Even a strike with tactical nuclear weapons on American jackals in Eastern Europe will not lead to a full-scale nuclear conflict, but rather will bring them back to their senses.....
  33. 0
    April 24 2024 19: 36
    Quote: ramzay21
    I partially agree with the author. Today, in the aviation part of the triad, firstly, we need to try to put into operation the maximum possible number of aircraft from storage, mainly Tu-22M3 and, if possible, modernization.
    Secondly, it is necessary to prepare now for the dispersal of strategic aviation across different airfields of the country, including civilian ones, with the construction of protected caponiers in the interior of the country.
    Thirdly, you need to select sections of routes suitable for landing large aircraft near small railway stations or sidings, without attracting attention, repair them with reinforced coverage, so that during a threatened period they can be used as reserve airfields and fuel and ammunition can be delivered to the station.

    The resumption of production of the Tu-160, despite the fact that it is obsolete, is a necessity, along with the acceleration of work on the PAK DA. Restoring the production of the Tu-160, in addition to increasing the number of strategic aviation, will make it possible to recreate all production chains of such aircraft and train personnel and, when PAK DA is ready, launch its production on a ready-made assembly line.
    We need PAK YES and in 10-15 years its absence or presence will become critical for the aviation component of the nuclear triad.

    This could have been done unnoticed by the enemy in pre-satellite times. Now the adversaries see our entire territory 24/7 with the quality they need
  34. -1
    April 24 2024 20: 09
    My deep couch opinion.
    1. Replace all Tu 22M3/M and Tu 95 MS/M with new Tu 160M.
    2. Continue the development of PAK DA, taking into account promising technologies.
    3. Restart aircraft production at an empty, equipped and completed aircraft plant in Samara. Naturally, GRADUALLY (from series to series) finalizing it to a minimum crew, new avionics, placement of the ammunition inside the fuselage. Those. to a modern acceptable level for use as a missile carrier.


    Airplane Tu 154.
    Here you have quickly, without investing money in development, mastered products and a free plant. Almost all civil and military airfields with medium-sized concrete pavement are suitable for it.
    Don't thank me. Although no! Thank you!!!))))
    1. 0
      April 26 2024 20: 42

      quote=squid]but that’s not the main thing. flights of strategists and
      -mig31k are recorded and the adversary has time to prepare. close to the front line - it’s risky to fly up, so the flight time kr increases,
      - while ground-based missiles can approach 50 kilometers from the front.
      - the reaction time is also not at all the same - the plane needs to take off and go to the launch area,
      - a ground-based gun can remain on duty at the border for days and fire at any moment.
      . [/ Quote]
      You can add to your list,
      - unlike a missile, you can’t hide a strategist in a silo; he is very vulnerable on the ground
      - the time for using free-falling bombs has passed, so they began to attach wings to bombs and install guidance systems and engines, that is, bombs are made to look like air-launched cruise missiles
      - the range of existing cruise missiles is already quite long and can be increased even further
      -there has been a steady trend of growth in the number of UAVs and their characteristics
      And all that has been said, it follows that first of all we should focus on ground-based missile technology.
      1. 0
        April 27 2024 11: 18
        do you propose the way of the Khrushchev - the corn grower?)
        I think that military equipment/weapons need to be developed in different directions, and not just missiles
  35. 0
    2 May 2024 23: 36
    Quote: Saboteur
    do you propose the way of the Khrushchev - the corn grower?)
    I think that military equipment/weapons need to be developed in different directions, and not just missiles

    Great idea. Are there resources and money for this diversity?