What should the strategic bomber of the near future be like?

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What should the strategic bomber of the near future be like?
Tu-160. An engineering masterpiece, an aircraft with outstanding performance characteristics and one of the most high-tech airframes in the world, it is not really needed. Photo: Rostec


During the ongoing air defense in Ukraine, Russian long-range and strategic bombers – Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and Tu-160 – are being used quite actively.



All of them are used in the same way - as carriers of cruise and guided (Tu-22M3) missiles with a flight range of hundreds and thousands of kilometers.

These planes do not enter Ukrainian airspace - unlike the Americans, who threw their B-52s under fire from Vietnamese and Iraqi air defense, with inevitable losses, and they sent B-2s into Yugoslav airspace, which did not suffer losses, but the Americans were ready for them.

The biggest mistake would be to smugly claim that missiles are much better than bombs. In fact, these are different tools for different purposes and the attack aircraft must be able to use them all.

The question this article raises, however, is different.

Is it possible to risk a strategic bomber, for example the Tu-160, if the situation demands it?

In Ukraine there are many targets that need to be hit with a massive drop of bombs or bombs of special power, but we do not hit them, since the risk is too great - a strategic bomber lost from fire from the ground cannot be replaced with anything - Russia has not yet mastered production Tu-160M, but it seems that you can simply forget about PAK DA.

Both the Tu-160M ​​and the hypothetical PAK DA are very expensive, technically complex aircraft that simply cannot be lost - even the loss of one aircraft can be a factor of strategic importance.

Because of this, our bombers have finally become missile carriers - the only task they can solve in a war with a relatively developed enemy is to strike with missiles from a long distance, from a safe distance. And against a weak enemy they can be used like the Tu-22M3 in Syria - dropping bombs from medium and high altitudes, again, being completely safe.

And this is where the snake bites its own tail - if bombers can only fire missiles while being safe, and drop bombs on unresponsive and defenseless targets, while being, again, safe, then why are they expensive, complex and difficult to replicate?

Why does the Tu-160 need supersonic power, a variable-sweep wing, a complex design using titanium alloys, and special fuel to reach supersonic speed?

The answer is that a “pure” missile carrier does not need all this.

And proof that all this is unnecessary is the fact that the much more primitive, low-speed, subsonic turboprop Tu-95MS performs all the same tasks as the Tu-160, with the same efficiency, but at the cost of lower costs. The average person is unaware, but the Tu-95MS is more important than the Tu-160; if it were necessary to reduce aircraft for the sake of economy, then it would be the 160s that would have to be taken out of service.


The Tu-95MS performs the same tasks as the Tu-160, with a significantly simpler design. Photo: Dmitry Terekhov

Another example, theoretical. When Boeing was developing a purely missile-carrying aircraft, it without further ado took as a basis the passenger aircraft model 747, which, according to the plan, was supposed to carry a large number of cruise missiles. And it would work! If launching the missile launcher remains the only task, then a complex aircraft is not needed.


American project of a missile carrier based on the Boeing 747

Why do we need the PAK DA with its radar stealth and special modification of special NK-32 engines? How will it surpass the Tu-95MS in terms of striking the enemy?

Theoretically, in a global war, stealth will allow you to gain time over your territory - the Japanese, according to them, see our Tu-95s immediately upon takeoff from Ukrainka, a hypothetical stealth bomber will be detected much later.

But if we don't fly close to Japan and attack it from a safe distance, then what difference does it make? They will still detect the missiles in advance, they just won’t see the carrier. But they can’t reach it in the air with anything, and it doesn’t matter to us whether they see it or not.

Let's formulate the problem - modern bombers have become so expensive and complex that they cannot be produced and cannot be lost in a war, while the tasks they perform do not require such structural complexity and do not justify their cost.

At the same time, it cannot be said that we do not need strategic bombers. We need it - the risks of a global war are getting higher and higher, and there will be a lot of strike aircraft with an intercontinental range, hundreds of them. And they will have to be produced by our meager industry, which exists within our economy, which is not the strongest, to put it mildly.
There is a contradiction; we need to change approaches to creating aircraft. In order to understand what the bomber of the future should be like, it is worth once again recalling the evolution of these aircraft.

From the Flying Fortress to Spirit and Raider


Historically, the development of concepts for the use of a heavy bomber took place in the UK and the USA, and later only in the USA. The USSR and China conceptually copied, and not always successfully, and sometimes just stupidly. The first war where strategic bombing was used was World War II.

The heavy bombers of that time, mainly the B-17, B-24, Lancaster and B-29, were used as high-altitude bombers, delivering strikes from high altitudes for that time. The primary threat was piston fighters, the main means of defense was planning raids to ensure surprise, defensive armament of bombers and a large number of vehicles in the strike group, which made it possible to fire at attacking fighters from multiple machine guns simultaneously.

There were exceptions to the tactical scheme described above, for example, the famous bombing of Tokyo on March 10, 1945, but these were just rarities.

Soviet aviation on the DB-3, Il-4, Er-2 and Pe-8 it acted similarly, minus the fact that the USSR could never attack a hundred aircraft in one sortie, which made the bombings both more risky and less effective.

The appearance of the B-29 made it possible to use a new protective factor - the high speed of an aircraft freed from bombs.


A massive group strike from a high altitude is the “calling card” of the bombing of the Second World War.

After the end of World War II, the situation changed only quantitatively - the flight speeds of both bombers and fighters increased.

However, due to the advent of nuclear weapons There was no longer a need for numerous strike groups; now one aircraft often had to go to the target.

The evolution of bombers until the end of the 60s of the twentieth century took place in the context of a nuclear war between the USSR and the USA. All their tactical and technical characteristics were assessed precisely from the point of view of the possibility or impossibility of hitting targets on the territory of the main enemy.

It was believed that the high altitude and flight speed would allow the bomber to break through to a target protected by subsonic fighters with cannon and machine gun weapons.

The American B-36, B-47 and B-52, the Soviet Tu-16, Tu-95 and 3M were supposed to act exactly like this.

Based on the same doctrine, British bombers of the so-called V-series were created.

The expectation of supersonic fighters, guided air-to-air missiles and guided anti-aircraft missiles in the near future has called the success of such a breakthrough into question.

In the United States, work simultaneously began on supersonic bombers and guided missiles for subsonic bombers.

Since 1956, the B-58 supersonic long-range bomber, capable of carrying one nuclear bomb, began to enter service, and since 1959, a guided missile for the B-52 “Hound Dog” began to enter service; one bomber could carry two such missiles on underwing pylons.

In the USSR, the response to the threat was intensive work on arming Tu-4 and Tu-16 bombers with cruise missiles of various types, the appearance of the Tu-22 supersonic long-range bomber and the K-20 missile system for the Tu-95 in the Tu-95K modification.

By inertia, both in the USA and the USSR in the mid-60s, projects of high-altitude heavy attack aircraft (for fundamentally different purposes) were launched at a speed of three “sounds”. In the USA it was the project of the B-70 Valkyrie strategic bomber, and in the USSR it was the medium-range missile carrier (“pure missile carrier”, not capable of carrying bombs) “100” of the Sukhoi Design Bureau.

Both projects did not become serial.

Subsequently, the USA and the USSR, who were neck and neck, split up - the USA got involved in the Vietnam War, which directed the development of the defensive capabilities of bombers along the path of increasing electronic warfare systems on board - with great success, and the Yom Kippur War between Israel and the Arab countries sharply increased the previously hypothetical need for a low-altitude aircraft capable of breaking through air defenses using ultra-low altitude flight at high speed.

By that time, the United States had already created the multi-mode B-1A, capable of both high-altitude flight at speeds greater than two speeds of sound, and low-altitude breakthrough at ultra-low (50 meters) altitudes. In addition, the B-52 was adapted to low-altitude air defense breakthroughs. A breakthrough tactic was created in which the B-52 hits targets with aeroballistic missiles and then breaks through the kill zone to the target with a nuclear bomb, using both low-altitude flight capabilities and electronic warfare capabilities.

Subsequently, the Americans recognized the ability of the B-1A to fly with two “sounds” as meaningless from a tactical point of view, and this aircraft went into production as the B-1B, a low-altitude air defense breakthrough aircraft. The video below shows a training flight at a typical altitude for a nuclear war.


The USSR did not have its own Vietnam and there was no need to make such a breakthrough in development, and certain unrest began there.

The development of intercontinental strike aircraft has stopped. In the class of long-range bombers, Tupolev actually managed to trick the new Tu-22M aircraft under the guise of modernizing the Tu-22 that was already in service.

In general, in the 70s in the USSR, an understanding of the role and place of strategic aviation in a future war was not formed. The end of the 70s was marked by two phenomena.

Firstly, economical long-range cruise missiles with turbojet engines appeared in the United States. They immediately began to convert the B-52 for them.

Secondly, the appearance in the USSR of air defense systems of the S-300 family, as well as an analysis of the prospects for the further development of air defense systems, led the Americans to the conclusion that neither speed nor following the terrain in the future will help to achieve a breakthrough in the air defense of the USSR. The only means that in the future was supposed to help break through the defenses of systems like the S-300 was stealth.

Since 1979, research began in the United States on a future stealth bomber, which then, in the late 80s, gave birth to the “flying wing” B-2, capable of low-altitude flight and having the highest level of stealth in radar, infrared and, according to according to some media reports in the late 80s, in the acoustic spectrum.

The further evolution of bombers in the United States was interrupted by the end of the Cold War. Now the doctrine for using their strategic bombers is almost the same as in the late 80s, adjusted for the high accuracy of modern bombs. The B-1Bs are worn out and will soon require replacement, especially dangerous high-risk missions with unsuppressed air defense will be performed by the B-2s, the B-52s remain carriers of cruise missiles and use free-falling bombs only in the absence of counteraction, in the future instead of the B-2s and B-1Bs B-21 “Raider” will enter service with the same tasks.

In the USSR, the evolution of bombers took a different path - they began to be seen primarily as missile carriers. If the long-range bombers Tu-16, Tu-22 and Tu-22M continued to be considered both bombers and missile carriers, then the missions of intercontinental strike aircraft became strictly missile-carrying - the Tu-70MS, developed in the late 95s, was and remains primarily a carrier cruise missiles - at that time the X-55, which were created as a response to the American missile defense.

An anomaly that well reflects the confusion in the minds of Soviet “decision makers” was the Tu-160.

As in the USA, in the USSR in the 60s, in addition to attempts to create a high-altitude supersonic aircraft, they were also puzzled by multi-mode aircraft capable of breaking through enemy air defenses by flying at low altitude.

In 1967, the Council of Ministers issued a decree on the creation of such a machine. There's no point in repeating history its creation, it is widely known, we will voice a key fact - in the course of work on the future bomber, taking into account the customer’s requirements for the tasks to be solved and the composition of the weapons, OKB im. Tupolev proposed to move away from a multi-mode aircraft to a high-altitude aircraft, in many ways similar to the passenger supersonic Tu-144.

The customer rejected this requirement, and as a result, the aircraft was made as a multi-mode aircraft - due to the variable-sweep wing, the Tu-160 could actually fly at low altitudes and fly at twice the speed of sound at high altitudes.

But the aircraft’s armament turned out to be purely missile-carrying. It carries 6 cruise missiles in two weapons bays. Theoretically, the launchers could be dismantled and bombs could be suspended instead of missiles, but in reality, with the exception of a few training bombing missions, the aircraft was and is used strictly as a missile carrier. All its multi-mode capabilities turned out to be a thing in itself, and a very expensive one at that.

And its maintenance requirements make it extremely difficult to use in a nuclear war.
Despite its high cost and complexity, its only advantage over the Tu-95MS was the number of Kh-101 missiles on board - there are 4 more of them. This aircraft does not have any concept of combat use, other than delivering cruise missiles to the launch line and launching them at the target, and for such work it is redundant.

This must be understood very clearly: the Tu-160 is a masterpiece from an engineering and production point of view, but it is simply not needed in its current form, and the simpler Tu-95 is no longer produced, and, to be honest, it is also far from ideal . There is no point in talking about the proposed PAK DA - in theory, the aircraft can be designed and built in such a way that it does not have these flaws.

But the very task of mass construction of very complex technically stealthy bombers is non-trivial even for the United States, and Russia, with sanctions, an ongoing heavy air defense system and unclear economic prospects, is all the more unable to cope with such a task - and this must be admitted. Because it is not enough to create a single aircraft, it needs to be produced, taking into account the foreign policy situation - in huge quantities, and taking into account economic realities - cheaply.

Before outlining the contours of the bomber of the future, it is necessary to decide what tasks it will perform and under what conditions.

Purpose


It must be admitted that irrational, illogical thinking and the low level of intelligence of decision-makers on issues important to the state have more than once played a cruel joke not only on the country and society as a whole, but also on the technical equipment of the Armed Forces. It is for this reason that it is not uncommon for us to have a situation where a weapon is first created, and then we have to come up with a concept for combat use for it.

Primitive consciousness tends to fetishize tactical and technical characteristics, instead of their rational choice, for example, “do it like the Americans” or “supersonic at any cost,” etc. And we also see such examples every day on the Internet or on television.

But nothing prevents, when theorizing about a new bomber, putting the cart before the horse and coming up with everything right.

What tasks can a bomber theoretically perform and under what conditions?

Let's briefly list the main ones:

1. Combat duty on the ground and in the air.

2. Strike with cruise missiles without entering the enemy’s air defense zone.

3. Strike with guided missiles of shorter range than the missile launcher, as well as with gliding bombs without entering the enemy’s air defense coverage area.

4. Bombing from different heights, the use of free-falling or adjustable aerial bombs, conventional or nuclear.

5. Attacking enemy surface ships using long-range anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) without entering the enemy's air defense coverage area.

6. Conducting reconnaissance over the World Ocean and territories without air defense, in the absence of a threat from enemy aircraft.


Which of these things can supersonic speed at high altitude help with?

For nothing.

And why does this require stealth, an unconventional glider shape (for example, a “flying wing”), the ability for transonic or supersonic flight at ultra-low altitude in terrain-following mode?

Only for one task - breaking through unsuppressed air defense and reaching a target covered by this air defense, followed by the use of short-range weapons or bombs on it.

Here, once again, it must be repeated that the Russian Aerospace Forces, even in a nightmare, do not consider such combat missions as real, and do not prepare for them, although they order aircraft that are technically capable of this, and then simply arm them with long-range missiles.

Then let’s pose the question differently - if we discard what the Aerospace Forces have already discarded and consider point 4 only in the form of the “Syrian” option - from a safe height in the absence of a threat from the ground, then which of these tasks can a high-altitude subsonic aircraft with a traditional aerodynamic design be able to perform?

The answer is any.

Appearance


In the summer of 2023, the author had to take part in a non-public event dedicated to the use of unmanned aerial vehicles, and one of the participants, a colonel, a man who combined both combat experience (his first injury back in 1990) and knowledge allowing him to develop command and control systems, expressed the thesis: once upon a time, the locomotive of technical progress was the military-industrial complex, and civilian technology developed as a derivative of achievements in the creation of military equipment.

Now the situation is the opposite: the locomotive of technology is the civilian sector, and the challenge is to quickly and effectively adapt civilian achievements to military applications.

It’s impossible to argue with this - neither the tablets from which artillery fire is controlled, but the distributed acoustic reconnaissance systems cobbled together “on the knee” based on the reprogrammed smartphones of soldiers linked into a network, nor the civilian Maviks, without which it has become simply impossible to fight, nor “ Starlink" won't let you lie.

Scientific and technological progress is now proceeding exactly this way - from the civilian sector to the military.

It makes sense to subordinate the “inventing” of a new attack aircraft to this approach.

In Russia there are obvious and enormous difficulties with the construction of bombers, but, for example, the Superjet-100 was built in the amount of 232 aircraft in 16 years, and in some years several dozen such aircraft came out of KNAAZ, with a record figure of 36 aircraft per year. 2014.

Of course, it won’t be possible to produce a more complex and large bomber this way, and a different plant will have to be chosen, but achieving 10 aircraft per year, using civilian technologies, components and engineering solutions, will not be a problem.

What will this plane be like?

It would be most rational to design an aircraft with dimensions “about the Tu-95”, but with four PS-90 engines, modernized “for a bomber” on underwing pylons, with one weapons compartment for 5-6 Kh-101/102 cruise missiles, and two underwing hardpoints for two more under each wing. The drum launcher in the weapons compartment must be quick-detachable.

In total, the aircraft will be able to carry 9–10 large cruise missiles. The aircraft must also carry up to 25 tons of bombs of various calibers.

We need separate weapons compartments for long-range air-to-air guided missiles for self-defense (the R-37 can be considered as a standard) and anti-radar missiles necessary to break through air defenses if the bomber does end up in a dangerous zone. As well as external pylons for replaceable container sighting stations for adjustable bombs.

Externally, such an aircraft will be similar to the four-engine version of the B-52 that was proposed at one time, just smaller, close to the Tu-95, in size.


The failed project of the four-engine version of the B-52 is the closest analogue of the proposed aircraft.

The entire crew must be placed in ejection seats on one deck, with ejection upward, the height of the fuselage on the ground must allow the crew to climb on board without ladders and stepladders, as on the domestic Il-38 or American B-52, the aircraft must be equipped with an emergency launch system for all engines from a pyrostarter, the height of the engine nacelles above the ground should allow changing the charge of the gas generator (“cartridge” in American terminology) by hand from the ground, without ladders, stepladders, lifts, etc.

The tail compartment, like the Tu-95, is not needed, nor cannon armament.

Since it cannot be ruled out that the aircraft will still have to fly with bombs at low altitude, its airframe must have a large margin of safety, and the load on the wing must be reduced to a level comparable to the Tu-16.

The latter, although not a low-altitude or multi-mode aircraft, flew better near the ground than the B-52.

The fact that for the sake of some, albeit limited, low-altitude flight capabilities, you will have to sacrifice a little speed is quite tolerable - for the application model for which the new bomber is being designed, the extra 50-60 kilometers per hour does not matter.

Design features


When creating an intercontinental strike aircraft, it is always necessary to keep in mind the main task - a strike on US territory during an already ongoing nuclear war.

Such a war implies, for example, the need to use bombers from civilian airfields, the use of the same aviation kerosene that fuels civil aircraft, minimal labor costs and the required time between flights for maintenance, and self-diagnosis systems that make it possible to determine the presence of malfunctions without special equipment.

The design of the aircraft must ensure ease of repair. It needs good takeoff and landing characteristics, ideally comparable to those of the Il-76 (which is not a guarantee that it will work, but we must strive).

It was said above about the need to implement in the aircraft design the function of emergency engine start from a pyrostarter; we add that in general the aircraft should be suitable for long-term combat duty at standstills without loss of technical readiness. The navigation kit should allow quick adjustments right during the climb, in a matter of minutes, as is done by the Americans.

Since in-flight refueling is not always possible, the aircraft must be capable of carrying external fuel tanks.

The communications equipment installed on board must provide the ability to contact the aircraft and transmit a combat order on board at any possible level of electromagnetic interference in the atmosphere caused by the massive use of nuclear weapons on our territory. It should allow the aircraft to act in the interests of the Navy during naval operations, as will be discussed below.

In addition to permanent crew members, the aircraft must have 1-2 workplaces where any equipment can be quickly deployed, for example, a control station for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) launched from the aircraft, a radio reconnaissance post, or a workplace for the commander of an aviation unit or formation. Operators of this equipment must also be in ejection seats.

A number of the requirements stated above are in conflict with ensuring high flight speed; it must be clearly stated that these requirements are more important than speed. In general, the lower limit for maximum speed should be considered that of the Tu-95MS.

Crew members must have means of protection against laser irradiation and special equipment to protect against the light radiation of a nuclear explosion.

There must be a full toilet on board the aircraft.

The cabin must maintain a comfortable temperature for the crew and normal atmospheric pressure at any flight altitude.

Due to the unpredictably difficult conditions of a global war, any bomber must be suitable for use as an aerial tanker, for which provision must be made for the rapid dismantling of the missile launcher in the bomb bay, the installation and connection of additional fuel tanks to the fuel lines and the installation of an UPAZ unit for refueling in air. It is possible that some kind of lifting devices for mounting and dismantling equipment from the weapons compartment should be built into the aircraft.

The rear hemisphere video surveillance system should be standard on all aircraft.

The most important thing for use in a major war is the ability to redirect the aircraft to a new target in flight.

In 2019, the author published an article “Aviation strategic nuclear forces: it seems that we are mistaken about something”, where it was explained why this is necessary. The article is recommended for familiarization to understand the model of combat use of the bomber; here it is worth giving a short fragment:

...using aircraft using the same methods as the United States does will make it possible to have a flexible instrument of war that can be retargeted, recalled, directed again to another target, used to strike with additional reconnaissance on a target whose coordinates are precisely unknown, in some cases , reusing aircraft is not so unrealistic, taking into account the destruction from missile attacks and how they will affect the operation of the enemy’s air defense, his communications, the supply of fuel to airfields, etc.

What do you need?

It is necessary to give strategic aviation the ability to receive a combat mission in flight. In relation to an aircraft that is a “pure” missile carrier, this means the ability to enter a flight mission into the missile directly in flight. Moreover, taking into account the disruptions in communication that will occur after the start of the exchange of nuclear strikes, the aircraft crew should be able to do this.

I would like to be able to retarget the missile in flight, but this could make the missile seriously vulnerable to cyber attacks, and such an improvement should be treated with caution.

The advantage of aviation over ballistic missiles in an ongoing nuclear war is its flexibility of use. An airplane can take off with a mission to hit a specific target, but if the situation changes, the US Air Force provides for the possibility of changing the target right in flight. To ensure such flexibility in the use of aircraft, the Americans are still relying on the use of nuclear bombs that can be dropped where they are needed right now, without the need to enter a mission on the ground.

We and our plane also need to be able to use nuclear bombs without restrictions, but since cruise missiles are considered the main weapon in our case, we need the crew to be able to retarget them in flight. This is a fundamentally important capability, without which the bomber dramatically loses its value as a means of warfare.

When using nuclear bombs with a UMPC, it is necessary to be able to program the UMPC in flight, changing the target coordinates in it.

An aircraft built taking into account such requirements will be able to perform the widest range of tasks in any war of any scale.

Application model


Now let's evaluate the capabilities of this hypothetical aircraft. First, let's consider whether such an aircraft could replace the long-range and strategic bombers actually used by the Soviet Union and later by Russia.

In Afghanistan, Soviet Tu-16, Tu-22 and Tu-22M were used for massive bombing attacks from a safe height for the aircraft. During the civil war in Tajikistan, the first war in Chechnya and the war in Syria, Tu-22M3 carried out the same bombing attacks.

During the air defense in Ukraine, Tu-22M3 were used to bomb Azovstal in the absence of enemy air defense, and the X-22 missile defense was used against targets covered by air defense (according to some media reports, also the Kh-32 with non-nuclear equipment). The missiles were launched from a high altitude, without entering the range of Ukrainian air defense.

Tu-95MS and Tu-160 bombers were used only as carriers of cruise missiles, which were launched from a great distance from the target, in some cases exceeding 1 kilometers.

Our hypothetical bomber would perform any of these tasks no worse than actual bombers.

Now let’s look at the model for using this aircraft in conditions hitherto unknown to our aviation.

Let's start with the use of an aircraft in a nuclear deterrent system.

How it is possible to make a reliable means of a nuclear retaliatory strike out of manned bombers was described in detail in the article Bombers and Nuclear Retaliation.

Quote from there:

By the beginning of the seventies, the practice of combat duty on the ground, which made it possible, if necessary, to have time to withdraw some bombers from the attack of ballistic missiles, had finally taken shape...

Full combat readiness does not happen in any part of the Air Force. Therefore, it was practiced to allocate part of the forces on combat duty. Then a replacement was made. The aircraft were parked with suspended thermonuclear bombs and cruise or aeroballistic missiles, also with a thermonuclear warhead.

The personnel were located in specially built buildings, which de facto represented a dormitory with a developed household and entertainment infrastructure to maintain good morale among all personnel. The living conditions at these facilities differed favorably from those in other branches of the US Armed Forces...

The room was directly adjacent to the bombers' parking lot. Upon leaving it, the personnel immediately found themselves directly in front of the aircraft.

At each airbase, it was distributed which aircraft crews should get into their planes at a run, and which - in cars. For each aircraft, a separate vehicle on duty was allocated, which was supposed to deliver the crew to it. This order has not been interrupted for many decades and is still in effect. The cars were taken from the air base's fleet.

Further, it was required to ensure the fastest possible leaving the parking lot. To ensure this, there were certain design features of the B-52 bomber.

It is easy to see that the proposed bomber also has these same design features - the possibility of long-term parking without loss of combat readiness, emergency start of all engines from a pyrostarter, a quickly put into operation navigation system, the ability for the crew to climb on board without ladders or ladders. All this will also make it possible to lift the bomber into the air literally in a few minutes from the moment the combat alert is announced.

As a result, the Aerospace Forces will have the opportunity, if necessary, to deploy the same combat duty at airfields with nuclear weapons as the Americans conducted at that time. And, like the Americans in their time, our pilots will be able to take off with only a designated backup target, which will be struck only if it is not possible to transfer on board a combat mission dictated by the situation.

And then, having received a combat mission, the crew will be able to program cruise missiles or UMPCs for nuclear bombs properly, to hit those targets that the current situation will require to hit.

If necessary, some of the bombers will be able to remain on duty as tankers, or later, during a second combat sortie, to make up for losses in tankers, if any.

If the proposed bomber can deliver a cruise missile strike on some country like Ukraine with the same efficiency as the Tu-95MS or Tu-160, then during a nuclear war it will be many times more effective than them (especially the Tu-160 with its monstrous interflight maintenance), moreover, it will surpass in its efficiency even such a “champion” as the B-52.

When launching a cruise missile strike on US territory, there is a risk that the Americans will be able to, having detected in advance the approach of the bombers to the launch line, throw there a group of interceptors, supported by an early warning aircraft and an aerial tanker.

In our case, the risk is partly countered by the bomber's ability to attack an air target with long-range air-to-air missiles. No matter how weak the hope of fighting off interceptors in this way may be, the same Tu-160, in principle, does not have such an opportunity.

When conducting combat operations against a weak enemy, the aircraft can use not only unguided bombs or gliding bombs with UMPC, but also use heavy adjustable bombs, for example KAB-1500, this opportunity will be given to it by a containerized optical-electronic sighting station that it can carry.

If you place a powerful electronic warfare complex on board an aircraft, the operator of this complex, then, having anti-radar missiles as part of its armament, such an aircraft will be able to operate even against unsuppressed air defense, although such actions will involve risk.

What deserves special mention is that such an aircraft can be used as part of a single strike complex with a long-range unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

It was said above that it should be possible to place refueling equipment in the aircraft's weapons compartment. It was also indicated that a UAV operator or even a UAV crew could be on board the aircraft as a temporary crew member.

Thus, the bomber can carry UAV operators on board, a supply of fuel for it in internal volumes, and its strike weapons on an external sling.

Then it becomes possible to send a heavy jet drone for various purposes on a combat mission together with the bomber, which will fly part of the flight together with the bomber and receive fuel from its board by refueling in the air.

When approaching a target, the UAV, depending on its design and purpose, can be used for additional reconnaissance of the target, air combat with enemy fighters, guidance of missiles launched from a bomber, suppression of air defense along the bomber’s flight route and other tasks.

He can even strike an area where air defense systems are concentrated with a powerful nuclear bomb, clearing the way for a bomber.

Moreover, its loss does not lead to losses in the flight personnel, nor to the loss of a bomber, and in some cases will not lead to the failure of the combat mission.

This method of action is especially important when attacking surface ships, which a heavy and large aircraft will not be able to approach during a real war. But an unobtrusive UAV, for example, a special modification of the Okhotnik, controlled directly from the bomber, will be able to get close to the target and provide target designation for it on board the aircraft, which will use anti-ship missiles from a safe distance.

Thus, it is clear that, despite the technical simplicity, traditional airframe, subsonic maximum speed, serial engines of the same type as those installed on transport and even passenger aircraft, the proposed bomber will be completely superior in its combat capabilities to both the Tu-95MS and Tu-22M3, and Tu-160, and in some cases PAK DA (joint use with UAVs, for example).

In fact, for him, the fulfillment of only one combat mission is in question, one that the Tu-95MS cannot normally perform either. The Tu-160 could if it had the appropriate weapons, the Tu-22MZ can, but only over terrain with relatively flat terrain, and the PAK DA, apparently, could do it without restrictions if it were built. But no one will send him to such a task because of the price and complexity of production.

We are talking about the task for which the Americans at one time radically modernized the B-52 and changed the crew combat training program; why the American B-1 and our Tu-22M and Tu-160 received a wing with variable sweep (and which the Tu-160 will never implement due to its price and complexity of production); and in the States they switched to stealth bombers (B-2 and B-21), and we and the Chinese are planning to switch.

We are talking about a bomber overcoming unsuppressed air defense with free-falling bombs or short-range guided missiles.

It’s also worth mentioning how our plane will behave if the crew is given just such an order.

A special challenge


So, that's the point.

There is a target protected by zone air defense. It is impossible to suppress or destroy air defenses before launching an airstrike against this target.

The task is to break through the air defense coverage area to the target, hit it with short-range weapons or even bombs.

The consistent evolution of the bomber was built around this problem for decades; in order to solve it, planes went to low altitudes, then to ultra-low altitudes (30–50 meters); at the same time, speed was increased when flying at such altitudes, up to supersonic; then it turned out that a person can fly a plane with such speeds only over flat terrain, automatic terrain following systems appeared, and then, finally, in the 80s of the last century in the United States they relied on stealth.

Those who follow the combat use of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Ukraine will easily remember the video with Su-24M bombing strikes from ultra-low altitudes - this is it, a breakthrough through working air defense. Su-25s also operate only from low altitudes.


Our attack aircraft and Ukrainian air defense systems. In a war with the United States, bombers will find themselves in the same situation. American ones - for sure, ours - perhaps. Photo: telegram.

This is exactly how the Americans were going to break through to important targets in the USSR on their B-1s, and on the B-52s too.

Could our hypothetical bomber do the same?

Let's start with the conditions under which such a task can be performed.

Considering the risk it entails, it makes sense to send a bomber on such a flight only in a war for existence.

This can only be nuclear, which means that the bomber strike will be carried out on territory that has already been attacked by intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

The fact that planes will invade the airspace of a country that has already been seriously destroyed by massive nuclear strikes, including on air defense systems, air bases and the notorious “decision-making centers.”

This will significantly complicate the enemy’s defense from aviation and will make it easier for bombers to break through to the target.

A breakthrough will be made even easier by the delivery of complexly planned strikes by large aviation forces, when some aircraft strike with hypersonic missiles like the same “Dagger” and cruise missiles, all with a nuclear warhead, in areas where air defense systems are located, in places where dispersed enemy fighters may be located. , or anti-radar missiles on its radar, etc., clearing the route for the main strike group and distracting enemy aircraft with its actions.

And under these conditions, the speed with which the aircraft flies at low altitude ceases to be critically important - on the one hand, the chances of encountering an enemy fighter are small, on the other hand, if it does, then let it be at least some speed - an air-to-air missile is faster .

Why work with bombs when there are rockets?

There is no particular need, but missiles tend to run out; in the case of the United States, there will be many times more targets for a nuclear strike than any conceivable number of cruise missiles and warheads on ballistic missiles. And prolonging a nuclear war in the same way as the war with Ukraine was protracted is fraught.

Thus, the task of low-altitude air defense breakthrough for a bomber may arise, and situational conditions under which it will be feasible may also arise.

But can the proposed bomber technically accomplish it? After all, its closest analogue will be the B-52 - an aircraft designed as a high-altitude aircraft. Let's look at the photo.


B-52 at low altitude


A B-52 flies past an American aircraft carrier at an altitude less than the height of the flight deck above the waterline


Low-altitude air defense breakthrough exercises for North America (NORAD), 80s. The exercises showed that bombers pass through air defense almost unhindered

The B-52s are quite capable of flying at low altitude, and while their tasks included striking with nuclear bombs, they practiced these flights. And this despite the fact that the plane has a high wing load, the wing itself is long and thin, but it turned out to be capable of such things.

And the Tu-95 turned out to be just as capable, albeit worse.

Quote from the book by Colonel General of the USSR Air Force, Hero of the Soviet Union Vasily Vasilyevich Reshetnikov “What happened, happened”:

Andrei Nikolaevich also disadvantaged us in terms of low-altitude flights. We wouldn’t be pressed to the ground, but our on-board radio countermeasures were, to put it mildly, somewhat weak to effectively counter enemy air defense detection and targeting stations. A low altitude could protect us much more reliably from premature detection in dangerous sections of the flight, since the radio emissions of the locators almost did not touch the earth's and sea surfaces.

In training with the domestic air defense, if the flight plan could be kept secret, our ships at low altitude passed unnoticed and untouched through vast spaces. With your own - so what? But the fact is that the radar fields of the potential enemy, the general picture of which was well known to us, were not much different from the Soviet ones. And this gave us a considerable chance.

We started flights at altitudes of 100, 200, 300 meters, as usual, also “without asking”, without seeing any sedition in it, but, as it turned out, the aircraft structure, especially in the summer, in turbulent air from terrestrial evaporations, undergoes increased loads. And Tupolev awarded: one hour at low altitude - two hours of aircraft resource.

It’s expensive, of course, and it’s not a good idea to waste resources, but at that time we couldn’t refuse this, perhaps, the only reliable opportunity to penetrate to targets more or less unnoticed. And later, when new, stronger, but still weak radio countermeasures and even long-range anti-radar missiles appeared, we did not disown low altitudes.

You can see a fundamental difference from the Americans - we have local initiative, they have a widespread system. But the planes survived!

Later, low-altitude flights were no longer practiced with such frequency, but in principle, over relatively flat surfaces, long-range aviation crews can perform them even now. On-board radio-electronic equipment will not allow you to fly over more complex terrain.

In general, the Tu-95 airframe is really not suitable for this.

But the new aircraft can be made somewhat more suitable for low altitudes, perhaps at the expense of speed - let us once again remember the Tu-16, which could easily fly at low altitudes, better than the B-52.


The Tu-16 behaved quite normally at low altitudes - to the extent that an aircraft can fly normally at low altitudes

At the same time, one must understand that no low altitude will provide a bomber with the same level of stealth that the American B-21 will have, and the same capabilities for high-speed low-altitude air defense breakthrough that the B-1B has.

The capabilities of the proposed strike aircraft for low-altitude air defense breakthrough will be limited and will be significantly worse than that of enemy bombers (except for the B-52). However, they will not be zero.

And, naturally, the likelihood that such aircraft will be assigned the task of low-altitude air defense breakthrough with bombs is relatively small.

Therefore, you will simply have to come to terms with the insufficient capabilities of the new bomber in terms of low-altitude air defense breakthrough - in order to be able to quickly, cheaply and en masse build intercontinental strike aircraft for future wars.

We need quantity!


The example of the Superjet, which was built in the hundreds, suggests that Russia can easily produce relatively simple subsonic bombers with serial “civilian” systems (for example, engines) in at least an air division within 10 years.

Unlike the complex and expensive Tu-160M ​​and PAK DA.

In future wars, among which, with some degree of probability, a global war with the use of nuclear weapons looms, a lot of aircraft will be needed.

The economy will not be the most efficient for a long time, and the processes of deindustrialization, which slowed down after the start of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, will be accelerated again after its end - there are too many forces interested in this, both within the country and outside it.

In such conditions, there is only one way to build a large number of strike aircraft with an intercontinental range - to make them very simple.

It is important to understand that the hundred bombers proposed in the article are much stronger than 5-6 Tu-160Ms, and building these hundred in the end will be easier than 5-6 Tu-160Ms.

At the same time, the proposed technical solutions may well make this aircraft more efficient than the expensive and complex Tu-160M ​​or the non-existent PAK DA.

The only thing that such a bomber will not do is repeat mantras on TV on the topic “analog.” But this is not the biggest problem that will face our country in the future, and it can easily be ignored.

The main thing is that we have the opportunity to build many bombers, and we need to take advantage of it.
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  1. +9
    April 17 2024 05: 04
    I won’t argue about the need for such a pepelats. But if you really need to start producing this bomber quickly and relatively inexpensively, then the easiest and cheapest way is to fake the design of the transport Il-76, and maybe even the passenger Il-96.
    1. +3
      April 17 2024 08: 20
      I always read Timokhin with interest, but I don’t understand why the author started with anti-Soviet fairy tales
      The USSR and China conceptually copied, and not always successfully, and sometimes just stupidly.

      Maybe the author doesn’t know that the USSR created the world’s first, by those standards, strategic bomber TB-3? Maybe the USA and Britain followed in our footsteps, realizing what a heavy bomber gives?
      And what heavy bombers did the USSR copy besides the B-29/Tu-4? Tu-16? Tu-95? Tu-22? Tu-22M3? Tu-160?
      1. -1
        April 17 2024 08: 37
        Maybe the author doesn’t know that the USSR created the world’s first, by those standards, strategic bomber TB-3?

        And by what “measures” is he “first in the world”?
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 10: 48
          And by what “measures” is he “first in the world”?

          The TB-3 made its first flight in 1930, and already in 1933 there were almost half a thousand of them in service. You cannot name a single bomber that was capable of carrying 5000 kg at a range above 3000 km and which appeared earlier. The same B-17 began to be designed 2 years after the TB-3 took off.
          1. +1
            April 17 2024 11: 11
            Quote: ramzay21
            You cannot name a single bomber that was capable of carrying 5000 kg to a range above 3000 km

            The TB-5 would hardly be able to carry 3000 tons over 3 km even one way. There is no point in exaggerating its merits. The technological level is not far from that of Ilya Muromets.

            The TB-7 is already a serious aircraft. And we walked along it almost keeping up with the B-17.
            1. -1
              April 17 2024 11: 46
              The TB-5 would hardly be able to carry 3000 tons over 3 km even one way.

              Of course there is no 5 thousand tons, but he carried 5000 kg for 3 thousand freely.
              1. +4
                April 17 2024 11: 49
                Quote: ramzay21
                Of course there is no 5 thousand tons, but he carried 5000 kg for 3 thousand freely.

                Why do you think so? 3 thousand kilometers is its ferry range. That is, without bombs, with fuel to capacity.
                1. -2
                  April 17 2024 12: 10
                  Why do you think so? 3 thousand kilometers is its ferry range. That is, without bombs, with fuel to capacity.

                  Even the Russophobic Wikipedia says
                  Technical range: 3120 km (at maximum take-off weight)
                  1. +1
                    April 17 2024 12: 33
                    Quote: ramzay21
                    Even the Russophobic Wikipedia says
                    Technical range: 3120 km (at maximum take-off weight)

                    So why do you think it's with 5 tons of bombs? Can you even give at least one example of the use of a TB-3 with such a bomb load?

                    Here, look, a real example from life:
                    The planes took off from Almaty with additional cargo: ten FAB-100 bombs in the fuselage and two FAB-500 or four FAB-250 bombs under the wings. In addition, they carried two rounds of ammunition. On October 27, TB-3 landed in Urumqi and then continued along the highway without incident until Lanzhou, where they arrived on the 31st.

                    Two tons of bombs, the distance from Almaty to Urumqi is about 900 km. From Almaty to Lanzhou - 2500 km, but the planes did not immediately fly to such a distance even with a load significantly less than 5 tons.
          2. 0
            April 17 2024 11: 22
            You cannot name a single bomber that was capable of carrying 5000 kg to a range above 3000 km

            Of course I can't. There were no such things anywhere at that time. Including in the USSR. You are confusing the technical range and the practical range, which for the TB-3 was 1350 km.
            By the way, in 1918, the English Handley Page V/1500 had a practical range of 1100 km and lifted 3400 kg of bombs.
            already in 1933 there were almost half a thousand of them in service

            This is not an indicator of any uniqueness at all.
            The same B-17 began to be designed 2 years after the TB-3 took off

            They started designing the B-17 in 1934, not because they couldn’t do it earlier, but because they didn’t think it was necessary. By the way, they couldn’t build anything like this in the USSR.
            1. -6
              April 17 2024 11: 42
              You are confusing the technical range and the practical range, which for the TB-3 was 1350 km.

              Well, tell me the difference indicated in the Russophobic Wikipedia between a practical range of 1350 and a technical range with a maximum take-off weight (that is, with a maximum fuel supply and 5000 kg of bombs) of 3120 km?
              They started designing the B-17 in 1934, not because they couldn’t do it earlier, but because they didn’t think it was necessary.

              Well, yes. And also because Poland, Romania and the same Germany, until the mid-30s, understood that TB-3s from the USSR would theoretically be able to drop 500 TB-3s on their capitals in one flight and return back. And practical Americans realized all the advantages of a heavy bomber and ordered the B-2500.
              By the way, they couldn’t build anything like this in the USSR.

              For which Tupolev, who after his TB-3 was allocated huge funds during the 30s, was quite rightly condemned.
              1. +5
                April 17 2024 14: 31
                Well, tell me the difference indicated in the Russophobic Wikipedia between a practical range of 1350 and a technical range with a maximum take-off weight (that is, with a maximum fuel supply and 5000 kg of bombs) of 3120 km?

                Nice man. If you have paranoia, complicated by ignorance, this is not a reason to “nook”. Especially considering that you are unable to comprehend the difference between the maximum range and the tactical range of the aircraft. Open the seventh volume of the non-Russophobic “Soviet Military Encyclopedia” on page 31 and read that
                Tactical range - the greatest distance at which an Air Force formation can solve a combat mission and return to base without expending unused fuel

                Airplanes, except kamikazes, do not fly one way at maximum range! They still need to return to the airport!
                For which Tupolev, who after his TB-3 was allocated huge funds during the 30s, was quite rightly condemned.

                Your ignorance is surprising even by modern standards. In order to copy the B-29, which was already obsolete by that time, the USSR had to rebuild several industries and create some anew.
                Although some units, for example, the Wright R - 3350 Duplex Cyclone engine, could not be copied properly, despite all efforts.
                What does Tupolev have to do with it if there was no industrial base?
                Yes, a question. Is the museum in Monino also Russophobic? Otherwise they give the maximum flight range of the TB-3 - 2700 km.
                1. -5
                  April 17 2024 19: 38
                  Especially considering that you are unable to comprehend the difference between the maximum range and the tactical range of the aircraft.

                  You wrote a lot of letters, got personal, but still haven’t mastered the reading, so it’s especially for you. I have RANGE written everywhere and not RADIUS, and unlike you, I understand the difference.
                  Otherwise they give the maximum flight range of the TB-3 - 2700 km.

                  You stated slightly different numbers
                  You are confusing the technical range and the practical range, which for the TB-3 was 1350 km.

                  Have you already changed your shoes?
                2. +2
                  April 17 2024 22: 18
                  I agree, no engine, no tail turret, which was controlled from the cockpit, plus an analog computer helped, which they could not replicate
          3. -5
            April 17 2024 11: 24
            Otherwise, the author wrote the right things. The Tu-160 in the current realities is really a victory of technology over common sense and resuming its production is sabotage and sabotage.
            But constructing a new bomber described by the author is not a solution; the Americans will have hypersound before such a plane takes off in our country, and not a single pilot will even have time to reach the plane during the time it takes for their hypersonic missile to fly from Kyiv to the base in Engels.
            Other solutions are needed.
            1. +2
              April 17 2024 11: 45
              Quote: ramzay21
              their hypersonic missile will fly from Kyiv to the base in Engels.

              It is just possible to protect one specific base from hypersonic missiles.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +1
                  April 17 2024 11: 59
                  Quote: ramzay21
                  Tell tales about our super air defense in Belgorod, if you’re not afraid of getting hit on the head, of course!

                  So air defense also needs to be developed. And it’s even easier to intercept one hypersonic missile somewhere than a Grad packet fired at a city.
                  1. +1
                    April 17 2024 12: 31
                    So air defense also needs to be developed. And it’s even easier to intercept one hypersonic missile somewhere than a Grad packet fired at a city.

                    Nobody argues with this. But in order to shoot down something at all, it is necessary to detect something, and without AWACS aircraft in adequate quantities and only even the best ground-based systems, this is impossible. We need an air defense system, which should include interconnected air defense systems, air defense aircraft and AWACS aircraft, which should control everything. We no longer have such a system, but in the USSR we did.
                    And with hypersound it’s even more complicated. It is possible and possible to shoot them down on a collision course, but to shoot them down on a catch-up course, the anti-missile must be faster than hypersound, and no one in the world has decided this yet.
                    But it is possible to intercept Grad packets, as well as the installations themselves moving into position, and we have everything for this, we just don’t have an order from above and the organization of this process.
                    1. -2
                      April 17 2024 12: 38
                      Quote: ramzay21
                      But in order to shoot down something at all, it is necessary to detect something, and without AWACS aircraft in adequate quantities and only even the best ground-based systems, this is impossible.

                      Well, who is preventing, along with the production of new bombers, also the production of AWACS aircraft? The author of the article does not seem to interfere.

                      By the way, it is possible to shoot down hypersonic missiles without AWACS. The S-400 is capable of this.
        2. -3
          April 17 2024 18: 05
          The range and carrying capacity allow you to solve strategic problems and strike significant targets. Yes, this is the first strategist.
      2. -6
        April 17 2024 10: 32
        in general, the information about the Tu-160M2 in this article is NOT accurate
        on the new Tu-160M2 they are already installing additional weapons compartments for Vozdukh-Vozdukh missiles
        (the conclusions of the article on the Tu-160M2 are only because they have NOT shown us the location of the RVV yet)
        RVV-BD R-37 and RVV-SD R-77 and RVV-MD R-73
        that is, the Tu-160M2 already has 3 air defense echelons: 300 km - 110 km - 40 km
        1. +2
          April 20 2024 08: 04
          Again another stream of consciousness and secret revelation from Romario...
          1. -1
            April 22 2024 12: 02
            Al, laughing
            in general, we need a wingman UAV S-70 Okhotnik, enlarged in size, with 2 turbojet engines and under ammunition up to 4 CRVB-BD X-101
            or even as a regular bomber with the ability to carry the same 10 tons of bomb load:
            - 2 FAB-3000 UMPC bombs and 4 FAB-1500 UMPC bombs
      3. +4
        April 17 2024 13: 34
        And yes, I wonder if it was the Americans who threw their B52s under fire from Iraqi air defense?
      4. GAF
        0
        April 18 2024 18: 29
        Quote: ramzay21
        I always read Timokhin with interest,


        Writes at length and with authority. Just how to combine a low-altitude flight with dropping a nuclear bomb. For example, he writes:
        "breaks through the affected area to a target with a nuclear bomb, using both the ability to fly at low altitude and electronic warfare equipment"....
        1. 0
          April 21 2024 13: 04
          Quote: GAF
          Just how to combine a low-altitude flight with dropping a nuclear bomb.

          This has been coming together for a long time. The bomb is thrown with a parachute and a fuse to slow down for several minutes.
    2. 0
      April 17 2024 09: 18
      Quote: Nagan
      then the easiest and cheapest way is to cheat the design of the transport Il-76

      I also got the impression that the IL-76 with a reduced fuselage midsection would be most suitable for a modern bomb-rocket carrier.
    3. +2
      April 17 2024 09: 19
      The author describes something based on the PS90. Here we can also add that the bomb bay should be suitable for all missile launchers, ballistic missiles and bombs and should be easily modifiable. and the aircraft itself must be unified with tankers and AWACS and transport workers according to the main systems. Type Il96-Il76 and some kind of transport aircraft with 2 units-PS90 and an aircraft like Tu204 (214). Or maybe not based on PS90, but based on PD-14(17-20)
      1. -1
        April 17 2024 10: 38
        Quote: Zaurbek
        Type Il96-Il76 and some kind of transport aircraft with 2 units-PS90 and an aircraft like Tu204 (214).

        In general, it looks like it is necessary to restore production of the Tu-16, with only modern engines. That was the plane! The Chinese are still flying, and they are not going to give up yet.
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 13: 46
          For what? Su34(35) is even more powerful in terms of power, and for AWACS or RC functions there is SSZH, MS, Tu214
          1. -2
            April 17 2024 14: 08
            Quote: Zaurbek
            For what? Su34(35) is even more powerful.

            The Su-34 has an empty weight of 22500, a maximum take-off weight of 45000. The payload is 22500. The Tu-16 has an empty weight of 37200, a maximum take-off of 75800. The payload is 38600. With modern engines (PS90A, for example), with an equal bomb load for the Tu -16 range will be many times greater than that of the Su-34.
            1. +2
              April 17 2024 15: 26
              PS 90 won't fit there. On the N6 there are D30s and there is no longer a bomb bay.....and there is no bomb bay, the range will suffer. And if you screw on the PS90, there is a simpler task: 0 you take the transport Tu214 and cut a bomber out of it
              1. -2
                April 17 2024 16: 02
                Quote: Zaurbek
                PS 90 won't fit there. The N6 has D30s and no longer has a bomb bay...

                I think they will fit in. The diameter is 50 cm larger, yes. The airframe may have to be redesigned.

                Quote: Zaurbek
                you take a transport Tu214 and make a bomber out of it

                Also an option. We must assume that in the long run it will be more profitable.
                1. +1
                  April 17 2024 16: 38
                  Definitely Tu214.....your idea is to convert the Tu16 into a Tu214......so besides the turbojet engine there is a lot of crew....example - the Tu95 was modernized, but the 8 crew members are still there.
                  1. -2
                    April 17 2024 16: 45
                    Quote: Zaurbek
                    .so besides the turbojet engine there are a lot of crew

                    What does the plane have to do with it? I looked - six people: two pilots, two navigators, two gunners. There seem to be no lubricators, couplers or tinkers on board.
                    1. +1
                      April 17 2024 16: 47
                      Avionics, control systems, etc...on modern aircraft it is increasingly lighter and lasts longer. And the maintenance time is less. This is approximately Tu104 and SSZh-100 in comparison of civil aircraft.
                      1. +1
                        April 17 2024 16: 58
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        Avionics, control systems, etc...on modern aircraft it is increasingly easier and lasts longer.

                        It is impossible to reproduce the avionics of the fifties in our time - such components are no longer produced. A new one will have to be developed.
                      2. +1
                        April 18 2024 08: 54
                        Well, compare:
                        1. Take Tu16, put PS90, avionics, etc. on it
                        2. Take the Tu214 and adapt it into a bomber jacket
                      3. +2
                        April 18 2024 12: 33
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        1. Take Tu16, put PS90, avionics, etc. on it
                        2. Take the Tu214 and adapt it into a bomber jacket

                        Let's take both!
    4. +3
      April 17 2024 17: 33
      Quote: Nagan
      The easiest and cheapest way is to cheat the design of the transport Il-76, and maybe even the passenger Il-96.

      For bombers, they have an irrational layout and an excessive fuselage section.
      But you can follow the path proposed by Alexander and take the Il-76 as a basis ... more precisely, its wing and engines, bring the fuselage cross-section to normal for a bomber, install a cabin prepared for the PAK DA with entry for the crew through a hatch in the landing gear ... With The main supporting chassis is of course a matter that requires assessment. And if calculations and purges show such a possibility, then it is better to leave the chassis the same. This will allow you to use any airfields, and, if necessary, land on the ground. And most importantly, it will save a lot of time and money and preserve production cooperation.
      As for one drum for the KR, I’m not sure that it’s rational; in principle, it is possible to place two such weapons compartments for drums of 6 KR X-101\102... or four for the KR X-50. But the issue requires elaboration. In any case, this will make it possible not to hang part of the ammunition on underwing pylons, which worsens aerodynamics, controllability and reduces range.
      A good idea is to arm the bomber with an RVV DB, to which one could add an RVV MD for protection against enemy RVVs and even missile defense systems. For this, modifications of the R-74 can be used.
      But then you will have to arm the bomber with an radar missile system, and it is best if it is an all-angle radar missile system "Belka" from the Su-57, with the ability to detect air targets from any angle and fire at them with RVV BD or RVV SD.

      As for the engines for the new bomber in the form of the PS-90A, I think it’s irrational. These engines are produced in a small series and are no longer modern. At the same time, the PD-14 is being launched into production, which will most likely become the most popular engine for civil and transport aviation. These are the ones you need to bet on. Because bombers will be in operation for a long time and the engines for them must be accessible, and the training of technicians to service them must be the same for military and civilian specialists. The PD-14 engine has every chance of becoming the most widespread and popular engine in the Russian Federation, just as the D-30 engine was once for our Aviation.
    5. +1
      April 17 2024 21: 43
      Quote: Nagan
      I won’t argue about the need for such a pepelats. But if you really need to start producing this bomber quickly and relatively inexpensively, then the easiest and cheapest way is to fake the design of the transport Il-76

      But I would argue... The time of reaching the strike position, the missile launch point, also matters! By doubling or tripling this time, you give this time to the enemy to organize the most effective counteraction.

      On the other hand, inexpensive media are also needed; we need to increase the impact mass. But here it makes more sense to do the opposite, approximately as you suggest. Take an Il-76 type transport aircraft and arm it with missiles adapted for launch directly from the transport. I don’t think that throwing a missile launcher over a ramp is much more difficult than landing a BMD; by the way, the Americans conducted similar experiments. So we can create kits for quickly re-equipping a transport aircraft into a carrier of cruise missiles.
    6. +1
      April 18 2024 00: 47
      IL-96 is a priority here. Or rather, its wing with engines. There is no need for a fuselage that wide. In the 00s, the Navy loved the opportunity to receive aerial refueling tankers independent from the army at their base.
  2. fiv
    +6
    April 17 2024 05: 17
    Record for length of article. Roman Skomorokhov has something to strive for. I missed the entire article. And there are few pictures.
    1. +12
      April 17 2024 09: 00
      fiv
      Record for article length

      Timokhin's articles were never short, but they were always interesting to read, unlike some others...
      And again, I agree with the author of the article on all points. The country needs a multi-purpose strategic bomber, it needs it in commercial quantities. There is no point in arguing with this. But no hundreds of 160M and PAK DA will appear in the foreseeable future, because it is unrealistic, which means there is simply no other way out that the author proposes.
    2. +6
      April 17 2024 16: 21
      I missed the entire article. And there are few pictures.


      Human degradation is scary.
      1. +1
        April 17 2024 16: 49
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Human degradation is scary.

        The article is really long and difficult to comprehend in a comprehensive manner. I asked the AI ​​to take notes, and he did the same:
        What should the strategic bomber of the near future be like?

        • The Russian Aerospace Forces do not consider the task of breaking through air defenses and reaching the target with the subsequent use of short-range weapons.

        • Scientific and technological progress is now coming from the civilian sector to the military.

        • Russia has difficulty building bombers, but the Superjet 100 was built in the amount of 232 aircraft in 16 years.

        • It is proposed to create a new attack aircraft, which will have dimensions “about the Tu-95” and will be able to carry 9-10 large cruise missiles.

        • The design of the aircraft must ensure ease of repair, good takeoff and landing characteristics and the possibility of emergency engine starting from a pyrostarter.

        • The aircraft must be suitable for long-term standby combat duty without loss of technical readiness.

        • Only part of the article has been retold. To continue, continue reading the original.
      2. fiv
        +2
        April 17 2024 17: 29
        But the patient himself doesn’t even realize it, he’s not afraid. But from the outside, it’s impressive, yes.
        The Navy also tried to come up with half-submerged carriers with hundreds of missiles to launch, but no one is doing it. And the Tu-160 strategic bomber is also a method of application. And you are trying to look at naked technology.
        1. +2
          April 18 2024 16: 19
          Quote: fiv
          And you are trying to look at naked technology.

          Which is very strange. It feels like we have fuselages, wings, engines lying around somewhere, and we still can’t figure out where to put it all. And here's where. We put everything together and make 200 strategists. (The superjet we are talking about in the amount of 200-something units, on whose engines and with whose filling did it fly? How many import-substituted ones were released after that?) So, we all just throw the seats out of the civilian fuselages and roll in a couple of launchers for the missile launcher, well True, we’ll have to cut the hull a little, cut out the hatches for the launcher... Oh, there are tanks there, oh well, somehow we’ll drag the tanks into the luggage compartment. and so on... Mmm, by the way, all this needs to be designed. conduct a bunch of research, create documentation, and generally carry out a full cycle of design work to remake civilian airframes (which, by the way, will be more expensive than creating from scratch) Yes, they forgot to ask the Ministry of Defense, but does it really need such a miracle? God bless them and the MO, then let them spin as they please.
          But in reality, there are absolutely not enough engines for civil aircraft, the rest too, and the main thing is a normal scheme for creating what the military needs. This is done this way: the military creates technical specifications, after which the designers work through and make proposals, when the device that best meets the requirements is selected, the government gives the command and allocates funds to organize production. Everything is familiar and most importantly there is no need to look for non-existent surplus civil aircraft and engines for them.
          Converting the Tu-16 (ridiculous because there is no longer a single production line) under the PS90 will cost more than creating a new one, and so with any option, for example the Il-112, equipping which with other engines turned out to be less cost-effective and not optimal than designing a new aircraft for others engines. In the end, all this fantasy on paper does not convey anything realistic, but I want to fantasize.
    3. +1
      April 20 2024 20: 47
      Quote: fiv
      I missed the entire article. And there are few pictures.

      Maybe a short speed reading course (diagonally and crosswise...) could be organized at VO? Or, as a last resort, immediately indicate the author’s surname in the title of the article? So that everyone immediately knows what they are “subscribing” to!
  3. +2
    April 17 2024 05: 29
    Author, how will you protect strategists at our airfields from attack drones and missiles in a massive raid?
    Our smart guys at headquarters don’t build hangars and shelters for them... they are open to any attack from the air... in addition, all preparations for the flight are clearly visible from satellites... you can see cars with tanks and fuel, you can see bombs, missiles being delivered to strategists...excellent targets for a massive attack by NATO strike weapons. request
    1. 0
      April 17 2024 06: 10
      Our smart guys at headquarters don’t build hangars and shelters for them...they are open to any attack from the air
      When the infrastructure of airfields for air defense was created, no one had ever heard of drones wink
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 14: 34
        Cruise missiles appeared in the mid-70s.
        1. 0
          April 17 2024 14: 38
          Cruise missiles appeared in the mid-70s
          We are talking about drones. In addition, the CD does not have such a long range. It has a relatively low speed and good visibility. And YES the planes are located in the rear
          1. -1
            April 17 2024 15: 15
            KR is the same drone.
            [/quote]has not such a long range
            Is 3000 - 4000 km a short range? what
            She has a relatively low speed
            - how much do you need? Supersonic speed? These aircraft exist and are called a ballistic missile. For short-range missiles, they simply use missiles, not ballistic or cruise missiles.
            YES planes are located in the rear[quote]
            - The adversary, if he attacks us, will launch a missile launcher over the Arctic, and it will be very difficult to detect this launch and track the flight of the missile launcher, this is not Europe. It may be possible to alert the available strategists, but after the destruction of their bases, it will be very problematic to operate the surviving machines.
            1. -1
              April 17 2024 17: 23
              It may be possible to alert the available strategists, but after the destruction of their bases
              You probably don't quite understand the tasks of YES. Airplanes are in the air constantly, replacing each other every 10-12 hours, while changing direction. It's almost like readiness number one. It is impossible to find such a vehicle at the base; it is always on combat duty. Like the nuclear submarine. The point of a missile carrier is to launch a missile before it is discovered and destroyed. This is a weapon of the very first and unexpected strike, which is ready to fire at any moment and should not be stationed at any airfields, except for maintenance
              1. The comment was deleted.
        2. +3
          April 17 2024 16: 20
          They were already used in 1944. W-1.

          In the mid-70s, modern-type missile launchers appeared, with small-sized turbojet engines, the first was the AGM-86, then our X-55.
    2. +1
      April 17 2024 07: 57
      Well, let’s say it takes several hours for attack drones to get to the Urals from the launch line + during a threatened period, part of the force can be constantly kept in the air.
      The SSBNs at the piers are also visible and nothing, no one is giving up on them.
    3. +3
      April 17 2024 09: 19
      Lech from Android
      how... to protect strategists at our airfields from attack drones and missiles in a massive raid?

      1. The airfields of the strategists are located at a decent distance from the enemy, which means there will be no surprise, there is still time for a reaction, everything will depend on the capabilities of the air defense to repel raids. For me, the experience gained in this regard is quite good.
      2. What prevents you from building easily erected hangars at aircraft parking areas? Not for protection, of course, but to hide from prying eyes all operations with aircraft, such as emergency refueling, supply of ammunition, mass movement of personnel on alert, etc... And some basic protection from the same fragments of downed UAVs It won't hurt the airplane fuselages either.
    4. 0
      April 17 2024 09: 29
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Author, how will you protect strategists at our airfields from attack drones and missiles in a massive raid?

      Well, for example, lift them into the air. Israel managed to rise. And here the flight time will be longer.
    5. 0
      April 17 2024 11: 55
      It seems that in the international treaties that we signed/inherited from the USSR there was an open basing of strategic bombers for satellite and aerial control (the "Open Skies" program). And the article talks about the requirement of basing “in an open field,” that is, at any airfield that has the required runway.
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 16: 10
        Open Skies is 1992. Nobody knows why hangars are not allowed to be built anywhere on the territory of the Russian Federation; they refer to agreements where for some reason nothing of the kind can be found. In Khmeimim you can, but in Crimea you can’t say that
    6. +1
      April 17 2024 17: 39
      Quote: Lech from Android.
      Our smart guys at headquarters don’t build hangars and shelters for them... they are open to any attack from the air... in addition, all preparations for the flight are clearly visible from satellites... you can see cars with tanks and fuel, you can see bombs, missiles being delivered

      They are not specially built - according to the New START Treaty. In order to keep track of them from satellites. The Americans also have their strategists openly in accordance with the same agreement.
      But times are changing, the New START Treaty has been suspended, and next year it will expire altogether. So you can safely start building. In our climate this is even more important than for Americans.
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 18: 30
        Quote: bayard
        They are not specially built - according to the New START Treaty. In order to keep track of them from satellites. The Americans also have their strategists openly in accordance with the same agreement

        Here in the photo you can see the characteristic “shells” at the Diego Garcia airbase. Do you know what's in these "shells"? Strategic bombers B-2.
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 21: 28
          Quote: DenVB
          Do you know what's in these "shells"? Strategic bombers B-2.

          Well, these are just canvas awnings, and besides, they may have been agreed upon with our side. Moreover, in the photo they are empty. Maybe this is for some other technology. Well, but seriously, aircraft this expensive and sensitive to their coating must be protected from all kinds of atmospheric troubles. A lot of different stupidity was imposed on us under the Alcoholic and Judas Gorby. But now the New START Treaty has been suspended, so nothing prevents us from building at least ordinary hangars from profiles.
          1. 0
            April 17 2024 22: 14
            Quote: bayard
            But now the New START Treaty has been suspended, so nothing prevents us from building at least ordinary hangars from profiles.

            New START has not been suspended. He does not prohibit the construction of shelters. It is written there in black and white:
            The obligation not to use camouflage measures includes the obligation not to use them at test sites, including measures that lead to the concealment of ICBMs, SLBMs, ICBM launchers, or the relationship between ICBMs or SLBMs and their launchers during testing. The obligation not to use camouflage measures does not apply to the practice of concealment or camouflage at ICBM bases or to the use of shelters to protect strategic offensive weapons from the elements.

            That is, bombers cannot be covered with camouflage nets. It is possible to build a reinforced concrete hangar with an arched ceiling one meter thick. This is for snow protection.
            1. 0
              April 18 2024 03: 59
              Quote: DenVB
              Bombers cannot be covered with camouflage nets. It is possible to build a reinforced concrete hangar with an arched ceiling one meter thick. This is for snow protection.

              Yes, now nothing interferes at all. Maybe they will build it. Maybe they are saving building materials, or there is not enough money, or professionalism. New START is suspended. Putin did this publicly and on camera. In 2025, its term expires completely and the Russian Federation does not intend to extend it - the Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially announced this the other day.
              Quote: DenVB
              New START has not been suspended.

              Do not persist, the President of Russia announced this to you in Russian, Russian diplomats repeated it dozens of times.
      2. 0
        April 17 2024 19: 00
        Where is this written in the DSNV? Something tells me that nowhere. For some reason, hangars are not built for any purpose, let the technicians sort out front-line aircraft in any weather outside, I suppose that’s also written in the DSNV
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 21: 38
          Quote from alexoff
          Where is this written in the DSNV?

          The answer to your question is contained in the question. This is written in the same Treaty on the Reduction of Offensive Arms. It is large/voluminous, with a list of all procedures. If you are not lazy, search and you will definitely find it.
          Quote from alexoff
          let the technicians sort out front-line aircraft in any weather outside, I suppose that’s also written in the DST

          For repairs and maintenance, they can be driven into hangars, but they should be based in open parking lots so that they can be easily read and counted from a satellite.
          The New START Treaty has now been suspended, and its term expires next year. So now our Defense Ministry is not bound by anything in making the right decisions. And I also believe that at least light hangars or at least profile canopies should be built for the entire fleet of bombers. And for other combat aircraft.
          But Shoiga was much more interested in ostentatious biathlons, exhibitions, presentations and the “main military temple”.
          1. -1
            April 17 2024 22: 09
            The answer to your question is contained in the question. This is written in the same Treaty on the Reduction of Offensive Arms. It is large/voluminous, with a list of all procedures. If you are not lazy, search and you will definitely find it.

            So you saw this somewhere, apparently in this large document, you can probably suggest the page and at the same time add which particular day of birth, there were three of them
            For repairs and maintenance, they can be driven into hangars, but they should be based in open parking lots so that they can be easily read and counted from a satellite.
            Who are they? Should all planes and helicopters be visible from satellites? They don’t build hangars for anyone. Someone here writes that if an atomic bomb lands in the hangar, the hangar will not be saved, but with this logic it is possible not to issue helmets to the soldiers, because if a shell hits the head, the helmet will not help either.
            I believe that this is deliberate sabotage from above. Here someone said that someone before him deliberately destroyed entire industries in order to fit into the Western market. And here they don’t build hangars to show that we are not going to start, so as not to be written out of the Western market. Like a wolf sticks its neck out to its leader to show submission. Likewise, the incompetent are not removed and theft is not stopped, they say we are degenerates and do not pose a threat. After all, otherwise a crowd of generals would already be sitting, of course there are connections, but they are definitely not from the “lake” cooperative and the supreme one is not interested in their connections.
            1. 0
              April 18 2024 03: 28
              Quote from alexoff
              So you saw this somewhere, apparently in this large document, you can probably tell me the page

              I’ll answer according to the classic “I saw it, didn’t read it, but I condemn it.”
              Do you have any idea of ​​the size of this document? The joint commission has been coordinating it for several years. There are all the details of quantity, accounting, location, order and frequency of inspections. You can ask Ivashov, he participated in its preparation.
              Quote from alexoff
              what kind of dnsv, there were three of them

              Of course, the third, although this situation was also in the previous two.
              Quote from alexoff
              Who are they?

              Both us and them. These are mutual obligations. When those documents were drawn up and we had enough satellites, our inspectors went there.
              Quote from alexoff
              Should all planes and helicopters be visible from satellites?

              No, only strategic bombers carrying nuclear weapons. New START applies only to the Strategic Missile Forces, Yes and Strategic Nuclear Forces.
              But this doesn’t matter to us now - the New START Treaty has been “suspended”, its term expires next year, and our side definitely does not intend to renew it in this form. So you can at least build hangars, or go beyond the New START framework in terms of the number of nuclear warheads and their carriers.

              Quote from alexoff
              They don’t build hangars for anyone.

              This is for the Knight of Malta, aka the “Prince of Blood”, aka the inventor of tank biathlon.
              It just so happened that capital caponiers with powerful protection for our aviation were built in the western part of the USSR, as well as in the GDR. There are still caponiers on the territory of the Russian Federation, but they were built for 3rd generation aircraft, such as the Su-24 and MiG-23 - to suit their dimensions. Therefore, the MiG-29 still seemed to fit into the old caponiers, but the Su-27 no longer did. But new ones were not built in the Russian Federation after the collapse of the USSR - the budget did not allow it, and all fighters were accustomed to digging them out of snowdrifts. - like this is a tradition... a national pastime for domestic aviators.
              Don’t forget that even under Serdyukov, dozens of capital airfields and air bases were “optimized.” That figure wanted to gather all of Aviation into several hefty air bases - so that it would be more convenient for partners to deal with them with one blow. Under Shoiga, they began to slowly restore some air bases and modernize existing ones. In recent years (especially the last two), this work has accelerated and expanded. It is vital for aviation to be dispersed. But before the construction of not even concrete caponiers, but at least profile hangars or even just canopies - from rain and snow ... they “didn’t think enough.”
              True, when the Barmaley UAVs flew to our air base in Khmeimim, they quickly built such canopies with a double roof. And here in Russia...
              But here too one must be careful when splashing the drool of indignation. With a military budget like that of England, we somehow managed to use this money to maintain an armed forces numbering an order of magnitude+ larger, with strategic nuclear forces equal to the US strategic nuclear forces, and while maintaining the second/third Fleet in the world. Here it was difficult to stretch the legs along the clothes. But according to the laws and rules of modern times, you also need to remember yourself and share with your superiors. That’s why the Mobile Reserve was torn apart... it turned out to be empty.
              Quote from alexoff
              Like a wolf sticks its neck out to its leader to show submission.

              In our case there was and is a bear. Only then - a bear cub. And now he has grown up, gotten stronger and began distributing cradles to the blossoming beast.
              No one sticks their neck out anymore. While the bear cub was growing and getting stronger, Russia almost completely updated its strategic nuclear forces, created new weapons systems, and is now completing the deployment of a full-fledged Ground Army. The bear cub feels the growing strength, he is already a young bear.
              The hegemon has already broken down and is no longer able to maintain hegemony... The time has come to redistribute the World. This is a dangerous time and the right of the Strong becomes paramount. Therefore, anything can happen.
              And ostentatious stupidity and thievery sometimes turns out to be just ostentatious. Officials can be changed. But the missiles and their carriers will remain.
              The North Military District is proceeding slowly and “stupidly,” but meanwhile a full-fledged powerful Army is being deployed, which is now gaining combat experience and eliminating mistakes and growing pains.
              And the stupidity of random locums in ministerial positions.
              But you don't have to believe it. In your case, it is even more useful to continue to be indignant and indignant.
              1. 0
                April 18 2024 14: 44
                Do you have any idea of ​​the size of this document? The joint commission has been coordinating it for several years.

                I can imagine, I found it on the Internet, it’s quite short, and there are a bunch of applications that count for what based on performance characteristics. After all, a horde of experts checks every word, and does not madly print Talmuds the size of TSB.
                There are all the details of quantity, accounting, location, order and frequency of inspections. You can ask Ivashov, he participated in its preparation.

                The experts are lying, there is nothing like that about permanent alignment with satellites. There is
                the open air display of all heavy bombers and former heavy bombers located within a single air base designated by the requesting Party, except those heavy bombers and former heavy bombers which cannot be easily moved for maintenance or operational reasons. Such heavy bombers and former heavy bombers are fielded by moving the entire aircraft from its fixed structure, if any, and placing the aircraft within the air base. The Requested Party shall designate in the notification provided pursuant to Section V, paragraph 2, of the Notification Protocol those heavy bombers and former heavy bombers at an air base designated by the Requesting Party that cannot be readily relocated for maintenance or operational reasons. Such notice shall be provided no later than 12 hours after the request for display is made.
                This is the New Year's Day from 1991. Do you see what it says? And the story about the open-air exhibition is completely meaningless. We will place a hundred bombers at the airfield, and a thousand in hangars for transport workers, and what will they see from the satellite? Inspections are carried out by inspections at the request of the party. And they can check the hangars, check that the missile defense systems have not started to attach to the Su-34, and so on.
                This all strongly reminds me of the interpretations of experts who in my Moscow region, which Shoigu gave to the son of his deputy, why there are residential complexes but no schools, why residential complexes will be completed at the expense of the city, why one house is served by two management companies and both have to be paid and so on. Maybe in a couple of years someone will talk about an agreement regarding hangars, grain deals and regroupings, but the court interpreters won’t raise an eyebrow
  4. +1
    April 17 2024 05: 33
    According to VNIITF, two strategic air force complexes are equipped with nuclear weapons developed by them. VNIITF nuclear warheads are thermonuclear aerial bombs; nuclear warheads for cruise missiles are being developed by VNIIA. Two complexes are Tu-95MS and Tu-160.
    https://www.chel.kp.ru/daily/26392/3269377/

    VNIITF is also developing a thermonuclear bomb for PAK DA.
    https://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/rossiyskiy-yadernyy-tsentr_2015/p69/

    I assume cruise missiles are needed to destroy the radar of the air defense system in northern Canada for subsequent breakthrough by strategic bombers at extremely low altitude.
    1. +2
      April 17 2024 17: 45
      Quote: Vladislav
      I assume cruise missiles are needed to destroy the radar of the air defense system in northern Canada for subsequent breakthrough by strategic bombers at extremely low altitude.

      In addition to ground-based radars, they have tethered AWACS balloons and AWACS aircraft, from which you cannot hide at low altitude. There is no need for our aviation to fly into the United States - it is far away and unjustified. There is a CR DB, now even for 7500 km. , so let them fly. But for the assortment, bombs are also needed - with UMPC. For less protected purposes, for tactical aviation and for use after the second wave of a global strike. When there will be no active air defense systems left on the ground, no fighter aircraft at the airfields.
      1. -1
        April 18 2024 05: 51
        Sooner or later, AWACS aircraft will run out of fuel, but tankers will not have it. Strategic bombers have an onboard defense system. Cruise missiles will fly at high altitude most of the way, and a strategic bomber, due to its large size and larger amount of fuel, will fly at an extremely low altitude for more than 5000 km, at least the B-1B Lancer could. One way or another, the power of the SPAB will be greater than the power of the nuclear warhead of a cruise missile, and the area affected by radioactive fallout will be larger.
        1. 0
          April 18 2024 14: 42
          Quote: Vladislav
          Sooner or later, AWACS aircraft will run out of fuel, but tankers will not have it.

          They have a very wide airfield network, and a network of spare/reserve airfields in the central/desert part of the country. So whoever survives the first strike will fly to alternate airfields and disperse and try to organize air defense.
          Quote: Vladislav
          Cruise missiles will fly at high altitude most of the way

          They will fly as per the flight mission. And to the maxims - on the marching section at medium altitude.
          Quote: Vladislav
          and a strategic bomber, due to its large size and larger amount of fuel, will fly over 5000 km at an extremely low altitude, at least the B-1B Lancer could.

          How much could he?? At high altitude, without weapons (or a maximum of 12 tons), with an additional fuel tank in the second weapons compartment, and at a range (this is a ferry range) of no more than 10 km. And this is at a high altitude. At short range it will be reduced by at least half.
          In addition, our Tu-160s do not fly at low/extremely low altitudes - they are not designed.
          Quote: Vladislav
          The power of the SPAB will one way or another be greater than the power of the nuclear warhead of a cruise missile

          The power (maximum) of nuclear warheads of our missile launchers is from 500 Kt. up to 2 Mt. Is this not enough for you?
          The EPR of the KR X-102 is no more than the EPR of the F-22, so it will not be noticed from long and even medium distances.
          And at the same time, the crews of our aircraft will not be exposed to unjustified danger.
          Free-falling bombs can be used against numerous US foreign bases not covered by air defense even after a global nuclear strike. Like finishing blows. And to save by that time the already scarce Kyrgyz Republic.
          1. -1
            April 18 2024 20: 08
            How much could he?? At high altitude, without weapons (or a maximum of 12 tons), with an additional fuel tank in the second weapons compartment, and at a range (this is a ferry range) of no more than 10 km. And this is at a high altitude. At short range it will be reduced by at least half.
            In addition, our Tu-160s do not fly at low/extremely low altitudes - they are not designed.


            He could take more than 16 tons on such a mission. Our Tu-160s are designed for WWI flight.
          2. -1
            April 19 2024 07: 18
            Read this article. Cruise missiles are needed to create holes in air defense zones to break through strategic bombers.

            https://topwar.ru/181878-bombardirovschiki-i-otvetnyj-jadernyj-udar.html
            1. -1
              April 19 2024 10: 44
              Quote: Vladislav
              Cruise missiles are needed to create holes in air defense zones to break through strategic bombers.

              This was in the plans of the US Air Force, which had much fewer ICBMs and SLBMs than the USSR, but had much more strategic bombers - 700 units. versus 150 for the USSR. In addition, there were a lot of military bases around our country.
              And to break through the air defense, it was planned to use mainly aeroballistic missiles, and to a lesser extent cruise missiles.
              In addition, missile launchers of that time were very expensive and their use was planned only in nuclear versions.
              Such tactics were not at all suitable for our Long-Range Aviation. We had few strategic bombers and they were planned to be used in the second or third wave of the attack - to finish off survivors and newly discovered targets. No fly-by strikes with free-falling nuclear weapons have been planned since the adoption of the missile-defense missile system. The X-55 flew at 3200 - 3400 km. and we were not going to risk our small fleet of bombers.
              But in the USA they were going to repel such raids. Because we were sure that we had at least 3 M-4s and 500Ms alone in our arsenal. (actually 50 pcs.). But there are also “Bears” ... These were the consequences of the “Carousel” operation we carried out. And while the US was hastily riveting together the B-52 armada as a counterweight to our armada, we were quickly working on ICBMs. And by the beginning of the 70s they reached Strategic Parity.
              1. -1
                April 19 2024 10: 50
                No fly-by strikes with free-falling nuclear weapons have been planned since the adoption of the missile-defense missile system. The X-55 flew at 3200 - 3400 km. and we were not going to risk our small fleet of bombers.
                But in the USA they were going to repel such raids.


                Who told you this? Have you divulged state secrets here?
                1. -1
                  April 19 2024 12: 02
                  Quote: Vladislav
                  Who told you this? Have you divulged state secrets here?

                  I was serving then. Combat command officer of an air defense formation.
                  And this was not a “state secret” - everything was published in special military periodicals. And these topics were analyzed in the specialized literature of DSP.
                  When did you finish school?
              2. 0
                April 19 2024 11: 06
                In the 70s, VNIITF put SpAB into service for the Tu-160. They wanted to equip the Tu-160 with X-15 missiles, whose range of 300 km was eventually abandoned. All of the listed facts, including the OFFICIAL sources that I cited here in the comments, indicate that the main weapons of long-range aviation aircraft are special aerial bombs, and cruise missiles are needed to create holes.
                https://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/atomnye-goroda-urala-snezhinsk_2009/p17/
                1. -1
                  April 19 2024 12: 14
                  Quote: Vladislav
                  They wanted to equip the Tu-160 with X-15 missiles, whose range of 300 km was eventually abandoned.

                  The Tu-22M3 was nevertheless equipped with these missiles, but then they also refused.
                  Quote: Vladislav
                  special air bombs, and cruise missiles are needed to create holes.

                  I don’t think that today the General Staff thinks the same way. But they might have thought so when the airborne missile defense missile systems were just coming into service, there weren’t too many of them and they were expensive. This is not the case now.
                  And what are the costs of overflight/pitch bomb attacks? The Northern Military District painted it for us in very bright colors.
                  On custom bombers, with unsuppressed or not completely suppressed air defense and without gaining complete air superiority, no one will send bombs to bomb planes with free-falling bombs. Those plans could be made when only and exclusively a global nuclear war was planned. When, after the first crushing blows, the enemy has neither radars nor surviving fighters at the airfields. Then it was possible to send bombers to finish them off... even if it was one way. Then the TMB plans were typed up by the fatalists.
                  1. -1
                    4 May 2024 08: 59
                    Those plans could be made when only and exclusively a global nuclear war was planned. When, after the first crushing blows, the enemy has neither radars nor surviving fighters at the airfields. Then it was possible to send bombers to finish off... even if it was one way


                    I don’t understand, but now what’s planned? Why can’t a retaliatory nuclear strike by ICBMs and SLBMs (that’s more than 500 warheads) destroy most of the airfields, the coverage and size of the runways of which allow AWACS aircraft and tankers to land. Use cruise missiles to destroy the air defense radar and some part of the airfields and thereby give strategic bombers a chance to break through the remaining air defense?

                    Where should strategic bombers return after launching cruise missiles, which will fly at high altitude for half or most of the way? So at least there is at least some chance of inflicting unacceptable damage on the enemy. If the plane was shot down, then let them drop all the air bombs, if possible, and no matter where the radioactive contamination will cover most of the area.

                    And also a question: is the electronic equipment of US civil airfields resistant to electromagnetic pulses (runway landing lights, radar, radio communications, tanker)?

                    The Americans initially developed the first AGM-86 cruise missile as a decoy so that bombers had a greater chance of breaking through air defenses, then they decided to install nuclear warheads on these missiles and actively suppress USSR air defense targets. All missiles developed before it (AGM-28, AGM-69) had the same task. You say that you served in the air defense combat control system and yet you didn’t say a word about it.

                    And most importantly: W80 power 150 kt, B83 power 1,2 Mt, B53 power 8,9 Mt.
                    Special aerial bombs have a larger radius of destruction by shock waves and light radiation, a larger area of ​​radioactive contamination of the area, and a greater chance of destroying a deeply buried object in rocky soil. Go to the nukemap application and see for yourself.
                    1. 0
                      4 May 2024 19: 55
                      Quote: Vladislav
                      Why is it impossible to retaliate with a nuclear strike from ICBMs and SLBMs (these are more than 500 warheads)

                      This is 1550 nuclear warheads on strategic carriers, according to the START Treaty. Both the Russian Federation and the USA.

                      Quote: Vladislav
                      destroy most of the airfields, the coverage and size of the runways of which allow AWACS aircraft and tankers to land. Use cruise missiles to destroy the air defense radar and some of the airfields

                      You forgot to mention command centers, arsenals, naval bases and a number of other high-priority targets. And for all these purposes, nuclear weapons on strategic carriers may not be enough. But we have a certain reserve - according to the New START Treaty, one bomber YES is considered as... ONE warhead. And our Tu-160s have 12 Kh-102 missiles each (or new missiles with a range of 7500 km), the Tu-95MSM has 8 such missiles... or twice as many if they are more compact but inconspicuous X-50 with nuclear warhead (range up to 2500 km). And this is only in ONE flight. But bombers can, after launching over the North Pole, return to alternate airfields/jump airfields, reload there and carry out another flight.
                      Quote: Vladislav
                      And most importantly: W80 power 150 kt, B83 power 1,2 Mt, B53 power 8,9 Mt.
                      Special air bombs have a larger radius of destruction by shock waves and light radiation

                      And what will be the affected area from a carpet strike of the 12th missile launcher with a power of 500 kt each? ? Compared to two free-falling bombs, but with more power? At the same time, at the moment the missile warhead is triggered over targets, their carrier (bomber) will already be landing at its home or alternate airfield. And in a few hours it will repeat.
                      In addition, the VKS now has nuclear warheads for the Kh-102 missile launcher with a capacity of up to 2 Mt. (weighing about 400-450 kg), which with high precision will hit any target with much greater efficiency than the few bombers that have broken through with free-falling bombs.
                      So the need for such (free-falling) bombs today... is small. And they can only be used at the THIRD stage \ in the third wave of attacks on the surviving military, command and civilian infrastructure. And this will be precisely the finishing move.
                      Quote: Vladislav
                      The Americans initially developed the first AGM-86 cruise missile as a decoy so that bombers had a better chance of breaking through air defenses, then they decided to install nuclear warheads on these missiles

                      It was exactly the same with us - the KR X-55 was initially developed as a decoy target / decoy missile with a corner reflector, under the code "Relief". Then a CR DB was made on its basis.
                      Everyone knows about this, why write about it?
                      1. -1
                        5 May 2024 04: 27
                        This is 1550 nuclear warheads on strategic carriers, according to the START Treaty. Both the Russian Federation and the USA.


                        I meant PGRK at field combat starting positions and SSBNs on combat patrol routes. Number of warheads, taking into account US allies. You are completely incompetent.

                        At the same time, at the moment the missile warhead is triggered over targets, their carrier (bomber) will already be landing at its home or alternate airfield. And in a few hours it will repeat


                        Where is the guarantee that in the event of a global war our airfields will not be destroyed?

                        In addition, the VKS now has nuclear warheads for the Kh-102 missile launcher with a capacity of up to 2 Mt. (weighing about 400-450 kg.)


                        Where does this information come from? Who developed the nuclear warhead for the rocket and who developed the charge?
                      2. 0
                        5 May 2024 05: 49
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        I meant PGRK at field combat starting positions and SSBNs on combat patrol routes.

                        Quote: Vladislav
                        Why is it impossible to retaliate with a nuclear strike from ICBMs and SLBMs (these are more than 500 warheads)

                        Why did you exclude from your calculation the most powerful component of our strategic nuclear forces - ICBMs in silos? And why are you writing about a “retaliatory strike” if our Doctrine specifically spells out a retaliatory strike? During which the goals you mentioned above and added to by me should be hit?
                        I am not interested in your fantasies about “Russia will not dare” and “only reciprocal”. All combat algorithms spell out precisely a retaliatory strike in the event of an attack on us, or a PREVENTIVE strike if there is no doubt that the Enemy is preparing a first strike against us.
                        Haven't you read the Doctrine? And haven’t you heard from our president about HOW our strategic nuclear potential will be used?
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        You are completely incompetent.

                        It’s not for you, with your kindergarten worldview, to judge my competence.
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        Where is the guarantee that in the event of a global war our airfields will not be destroyed?

                        There can be no guarantees in a nuclear war. They will land on any survivor or even on the territory of another state, or they will eject over their territory. In a war, especially a nuclear one, anything can happen, and pilots know very well how to act in emergency situations.
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        Where does this information come from? Who developed the nuclear warhead for the rocket and who developed the charge?

                        You are asking too much, and I definitely won’t answer such questions. In the end, your American sources wrote about this and spoke about it in the report to Congress.
                        Another thing is that for a charge with above-ground detonation the power is 600 kt. is considered sufficient and increasing the power does not have any significant consequences (most of the power goes up). That is why the United States has not created more powerful warheads for ICBMs since at least the 80s. And for most tasks the power is 150-200 kt. quite enough . That is why such charges (with a switch to lower power) are placed on the CR. Both here and in the USA. But if necessary, such a nuclear warhead can have a capacity of 1 Mt. , and even 2 Mt.
                        For what ?
                        Well, for example, to create an EMP of the required power in the right place. Or to provoke geological processes, say, in the area of ​​the San Andreas fault... or in the Yellowstone region. You never know. Just to destroy underground command posts or a shelter for representatives of the local elite... In short, there are such possibilities.
                        Such nuclear warheads can/will be installed on the Kh-102 and on the Kalibr-M missile launcher (with a range of 4500 km), and, of course, on the new missile launcher with a range of 7 km. and on the Burevestnik unlimited range missile launcher.

                        So have no doubt, in the event of a real threat of a “sudden nuclear strike” against us, we will forestall it with our strike. And there will be no more warnings, no persuasion, no negotiations. There will be simply actions according to the combat algorithm.
                      3. -1
                        5 May 2024 06: 47
                        And why are you writing about a “retaliatory strike” if our Doctrine specifically spells out a retaliatory strike?


                        I took the worst case scenario. Don't you understand this?
                      4. -1
                        5 May 2024 07: 16
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        I took the worst case scenario. Don't you understand this?

                        lol I don't understand you at all. Contact your doctors, they will understand.
                      5. -1
                        5 May 2024 06: 49
                        Or to provoke geological processes, say, in the area of ​​​​the San Andreas fault ... or in the Yellowstone region


                        The Yellowstone magma basin is located at a depth of several kilometers; none of the existing thermonuclear charges can activate it.

                        You are talking some kind of bullshit. Are you by chance on the Global Adventure forum?
                        There are also a lot of empty-headed people there.
                      6. -1
                        5 May 2024 07: 11
                        Are you experiencing a spring flare-up?
                        Contact your doctors immediately before the paramedics arrive.
                      7. -1
                        5 May 2024 09: 07
                        You've screwed up several times, especially with the Yellowstone volcano.
                        Go light a candle for Putin in church.
                      8. -1
                        5 May 2024 18: 30
                        Demons are wreaking havoc, Slavik?
                        The comment is short.
                      9. -1
                        5 May 2024 05: 08
                        In addition, the VKS now has nuclear warheads for the Kh-102 missile launcher with a capacity of up to 2 Mt. (weighing about 400-450 kg


                        The meaning of a nuclear warhead on a cruise missile is not only because of the high power, but because of the reduction in the mass and dimensions of the combat load. 400-450 kg is the mass of a conventional warhead with such a warhead; the missile’s range will be around 3000 km. You are talking nonsense, you are generally incompetent and you came up with some bullshit about 2 Mt on the X-102.
                      10. -1
                        5 May 2024 06: 12
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        400-450 kg is the mass of a conventional warhead with such a warhead; the missile’s range will be around 3000 km.

                        Sit down - TWO.
                        The CR has a Kh-102 BD with a nuclear warhead with a capacity of 200 Kt. range 5 km.
                        The Kh-101 has exactly the same missile cruise missile but with a high-explosive warhead, with a range of 4 km.
                        This is reference data, Slavik.
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        You are talking nonsense, you are generally incompetent and you came up with some bullshit about 2 Mt on the X-102.

                        Wipe off your drool, blow your nose and educate yourself. The subject of the dispute YOU NEED TO KNOW.
                        Before arguing with adults.
                        Slavik.
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        about 2 Mt on the X-102.

                        Such a nuclear warhead can be installed.
                        If necessary.
                        The standard charge is the standard 200 Kt.
                        And yes, a warhead of 1-2 Mt. made in the weight and dimensions of a conventional high-explosive warhead KR X-101.
                        Exactly the same can be installed as a standard one on the Kalibr-M missile launcher (case diameter is about 650 mm) and on the Burevestnik. And this was stated quite openly at one time.
                        And the report to the US Congress spoke about the same thing.
                        Didn’t they share it with you, Slavik?
                      11. 0
                        5 May 2024 06: 45
                        The CR has a Kh-102 BD with a nuclear warhead with a capacity of 200 Kt. range 5 km.
                        The Kh-101 has exactly the same missile cruise missile but with a high-explosive warhead, with a range of 4 km.


                        Where are the links to official sources?
                      12. -1
                        5 May 2024 07: 09
                        Quote: Vladislav
                        Where are the links to official sources?

                        Self-education is the key to ignorance.
          3. 0
            April 19 2024 11: 16
            How much could he?? At high altitude, without weapons (or a maximum of 12 tons), with an additional fuel tank in the second weapons compartment, and at a range (this is a ferry range) of no more than 10 km. And this is at a high altitude. At short range it will be reduced by at least half.
            In addition, our Tu-160s do not fly at low/extremely low altitudes - they are not designed.


            It could take 16 tons of combat load to a range of 11 km and at the same time 000 km passed at an extremely low altitude thanks to air refueling.
            1. 0
              April 19 2024 12: 29
              Quote: Vladislav
              thanks to in-flight refueling.

              Key note.
              We had Tu-160 and Tu-95 with refueling for 36-38 hours in the air. And it seems even more. But these are mainly flights for the record and to assess the capabilities of the aircraft and crew.
              And without refueling and an additional tank of 10 tons, at high altitude and exclusively at cruising speed, it could fly just over 10 km. And that was his limit.
              But the United States has always had a huge fleet of tankers.
  5. +6
    April 17 2024 05: 33
    I don’t see the point in sending a plane for bombing thousands of kilometers away (in most cases), this is what the missiles themselves were created for, and for bombing relatively close, you still need to have a UAV with a good carrying capacity, preferably at least 3 tons, so that it can just drag away the factory 3000, equipped with the so-called unified planning and correction module
    1. 0
      April 17 2024 16: 13
      It’s good to have strategists if you need to bomb some overseas territory where conventional combat aircraft cannot reach. But we don’t plan this and therefore there is a lot of suffering, so why do we need it all?
  6. -1
    April 17 2024 05: 42
    Programmatically.
    possibility of long-term parking without loss of combat readiness

    This is technically quite possible even with nuclear weapons on board, otherwise what kind of deterrent weapon is this, but it will require at least light shelters from drones, not to mention other threats.
  7. +1
    April 17 2024 05: 43
    Testing of nuclear warheads for supersonic strategic aircraft continued. As part of this topic, about 30 nuclear warhead samples were tested. A lot of effort was required to develop the parachute system, which experiences increased loads when using nuclear warheads. Not everything went smoothly. The parachutes were torn, and in one of the experiments the parachute system did not work. Defects of the tested nuclear warhead showed the presence of a manufacturing defect in the pyrotechnic device. After eliminating the identified causes, repeated
    the tests were successful.

    Source: https://elib.biblioatom.ru/text/dela-i-gody_2010/p134/


    The supersonic strategic aircraft is the Tu-160. Tu-22M3 is not strategic.
    The nuclear warhead in this case is a special aerial bomb (SpAB), that is, thermonuclear.
  8. -1
    April 17 2024 06: 06
    Which of these things can supersonic speed at high altitude help with?
    At least in some cases to escape enemy fighters
    1. +1
      April 17 2024 14: 42
      There are no such cases. When flying on a combat mission, the courses with the enemy fighter will be oncoming, but when returning, the fighter will not be able to approach within its own range
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 17: 07
        When flying on a combat mission, courses with an enemy fighter will be on opposite sides
        Having seen an object on the radar, the plane may turn around, the fighter may not make it in time, the fighter may not be on course, the fighter may not even reach it. And one hundred and forty-six more stories
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 21: 29
          More plots are possible, but in real life an air defense fighter will not accidentally attack the adversary strategist, but will come out upon guidance from its own guidance system and mainly head-on.
          [/quote]Seeing an object on the radar, the plane can turn around[quote]
          - and give it a go??? wassat In this case, it’s too late to turn around; the bomber is actually already a corpse.
  9. +12
    April 17 2024 06: 08
    Strategic bombers are designed to solve strategic problems using tactical nuclear weapons with targets located at a distance of 5-6 thousand km. Assessing their effectiveness in the NWO (in principle, a local operation at a range of hundreds of kilometers) is the same as hammering nails with a microscope. The RF Armed Forces are FORCED to use strategic bombers in the Northern Military District because it simply does not have a sufficient number of tactical aircraft capable of using high-power missiles.
    Therefore, it is incorrect to draw any conclusions about the need/unnecessity of strategic aircraft based on air defense systems.
    1. +3
      April 17 2024 09: 28
      Amateur
      Strategic bombers are designed to solve strategic problems using tactical nuclear weapons with targets located at a distance of 5-6 thousand km.

      So it is, but what is wrong with the maximum use of all forces and means during a military conflict? Multi-purpose platforms will always be much cheaper than single copies that have no analogues in the world in case of doomsday...
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 09: 42
        So it is, but what is wrong with the maximum use of all forces and means during a military conflict?

        And who can argue with this? In general, are we discussing the use of weapons in the Northern Military District or A. Timokhin’s article with ambiguous content and conclusions? These are very different things. drinks
        1. +4
          April 17 2024 09: 46
          we are discussing the use of weapons in the Northern Military District or A. Timokhin’s article with ambiguous content and conclusions

          Is Timokhin’s article really that far from the realities of the Northern Military District? In my opinion, he writes about his vision of the most multi-role bomber for the armed forces, which can be used in almost any theater of war...
          hi
          1. +5
            April 17 2024 11: 00
            Quote: Doccor18
            which can be used in almost any theater of military operations...

            More than once they tried to create something universal that a generalist machine operator could operate, but it never turned out to be optimal and, as a rule, in the end all tasks were performed much worse than the means created specifically for this task.
            Strategic, tactical, and operational tasks have little in common with each other. The IL 96 will not be able to perform the tasks of the Tu-95, or after modification to perform such tasks (and believe me, still with less efficiency), its cost will be much higher. The aircraft is generally created according to the specifications and, based on the specifications, is optimized, including in terms of cost.
            As for strategists, they have quite a few of their own tasks and they are just as specific. They were not created to deliver the first irresistible strike, their purpose was to deliver subsequent strikes against surviving and newly reconnoitred targets on enemy territory (let's be honest, the United States). It is unlikely that the modernized Il96 will be able to perform this task effectively. As for supersonic (Tu160), in addition to overcoming air defense, it is no less important to timely build up forces and means in the right place in the shortest possible time (for this purpose, for example, in 5th generation fighter aircraft they strive for cruising (non-afterburning) supersonic) There are a lot of specific things in strategists and the possibility of the shortest time to escape from attack and autonomous navigation and the possibility of independent additional reconnaissance of targets and electronic warfare, and means of defense and the possibility of refueling... I repeat, the planes are created according to technical specifications, and not according to an article from VO, although not a bad author.
            1. 0
              April 17 2024 14: 49
              [/quote]I repeat: aircraft are created according to technical specifications[quote]

              Absolutely right! Designers are not idiots, they create exactly what they were ordered to do, or as close as possible to it. If they could do it cheaper or easier, they would do it. Therefore, talk about creating a bomber based on a passenger airliner, or a Death Star at the modern technical level, is the babble of amateurs.
              1. 0
                April 20 2024 08: 40
                Not certainly in that way.
                Many designers are overly proud and also vain. And they try to succeed in creating their personal desires more often than usual. To introduce something “having no analogues in the world” associated with him personally, at state expense, secretly, covertly, customizing the technical specifications and supposedly required characteristics to suit himself and his dreams.
                1. 0
                  April 20 2024 16: 35
                  I had the good fortune to observe this live throughout almost my entire working life. In order to curb these desires, defense research institutes and design bureaus have military acceptance. Of course, the “fight” goes on with varying degrees of success.
                  [/quote]Not really[quote]
                  - Of course, the process of creating military equipment is very complex and multifaceted.
            2. +1
              April 17 2024 16: 21
              The IL 96 will not be able to perform the tasks of the Tu-95 or after modification to perform such tasks (and believe me, still with less efficiency)

              Can you be more specific about what we're talking about? Or some general phrases
            3. +2
              April 17 2024 17: 43
              NIKN
              More than once they tried to create something universal that a generalist machine operator can operate

              Well, why exaggerate? But the universal has been created, is being created and will continue to be created, because it is more convenient, cheaper and there are REAL chances for mass adoption...
              As a rule, in the end, all tasks were performed much worse than the tools created specifically for this task.

              Of course, who would argue, an “intergalactic star destroyer” will do a better job of destroying the planet, but the whole catch is in its phenomenal cost and the ability to produce these masterpieces in quantities sufficient for a major war. In the meantime, even the Pentagon (with its enchanting budget) can only scrape together enough for a hundred cars...
              Strategic, tactical, and operational tasks have little in common with each other.

              Again, let’s not go to extremes and throw in a strategic bomber, because for tactical tasks there are front-line bombers in our Air Force, and fighter-bombers in the ranks of the adversary, BUT involving bomber aircraft in operational tasks, in local conflicts, if necessary , is not something unimaginable, and we know many examples of this.
              IL 96 will not be able to fulfill the tasks of the Tu-95

              It is impossible to answer this question unambiguously without getting bogged down in mountains of technical literature and without getting bogged down in numbers. Well, even if it does concede somewhat, it will most likely be insignificant, and taking into account all the improvements listed by the author to a multi-purpose platform, this is worth focusing on. How many Tu-95s are left? How much longer can these veterans fly? And you need to think about the future “yesterday”...
              As for supersonic (Tu160), in addition to overcoming air defense, it is equally important to timely build up forces and means in the right place in the shortest possible time (for this purpose, for example, in 5th generation fighter aircraft they strive for cruising (non-afterburning) supersonic

              The shortest time is of course important, but it is even more important to have, for example, 180 aircraft at ten airfields than 36 aircraft at two, and all this on 17 million square meters. km. In addition, having flown 4-5 thousand km in a hypothetical supersonic. Will the aircraft have to immediately begin its combat mission or should it be thoroughly prepared? What about refueling? And where to fly then? Go back or look for the jump airfield that has not yet been destroyed? There are more questions than answers, but whatever one may say, luck is still “on the side of the big battalions”...
              and the possibility of independent additional reconnaissance of targets and electronic warfare, and means of defense and the possibility of refueling...

              Which of all this is unrealistic to install on a modified platform of the same IL-96?
              1. +4
                April 17 2024 18: 04
                The dispute is futile, because one can endlessly prove the advantages and disadvantages of something that does not exist.
                Quote: Doccor18
                It’s even more important to have, for example, 180 aircraft at ten airfields,

                I would really like to see at least 18 of them not converted on passenger lines. Well, the fact that the idea of ​​​​converting the Il-96 into a tanker was not supported. There’s really no point in going into details, but even remaking the Il-112 turned out to be more expensive than creating the plane from scratch. In memory, only Germany created the Ju-52 civil aircraft with the prospect of using it as a bomber (it was created from the very beginning, from the drawing board), but they did not use it in this role because it was not really effective to apply. Well that's the story. Personal opinion is that the losses of the hypothetical 180 aircraft adapted to carry out the tasks of strategists will be significantly greater, and the result will be lower than that of 36 aircraft intended for this purpose.
                Yours! hi
                1. +2
                  April 17 2024 19: 06
                  The dispute is futile, because one can endlessly prove the advantages and disadvantages of something that does not exist.

                  Can not argue with that.
                  Personal opinion is that the losses of the hypothetical 180 aircraft adapted to carry out the tasks of strategists will be significantly greater, and the result will be lower than that of 36 aircraft intended for this purpose.

                  For me, in both options (in a global conflict), the losses will be catastrophic, but they will try to kill the strategists stationed on two or three sites with the first massive strike, and it is unlikely that they will achieve anything... The same option, with one and a half based -two hundred vehicles at a large number of airfields on the territory of a huge country, even theoretically incredibly complex, because organizing the simultaneous destruction of many targets in such an area is an almost fantastic task even for specialists experienced in military operations...
                  hi
                  1. +3
                    April 17 2024 19: 07
                    Quote: Doccor18
                    but they will try to kill the strategists placed on two or three platforms with the first massive blow, and it is unlikely that they will manage to do anything...

                    It is for this reason that one of the main exercises practiced by strategists is to practice how to escape from an attack, and by the way, they do the same.
                    1. +2
                      April 17 2024 19: 17
                      one of the main exercises practiced by strategists is practicing withdrawal from attack

                      One can hope for this when there is time before the approach of an ICBM or ALCM/SLCM, but what if the strike is actually sudden, with the help of dozens of UAVs, and even from a short distance (no one can exclude the option of a DRG in the rear).. ? What then? And then, apparently, an extensive basing system and a large fleet of inexpensive (if possible) platforms are almost a panacea...
                      1. +4
                        April 17 2024 19: 30
                        Quote: Doccor18
                        but what if the blow is actually sudden

                        There are many options, and that’s what the military profession is for: defending the Motherland, when we are constantly learning and devoting our whole lives to it (I’m talking about the military) But let’s go back to the basics, where to get such a number of aircraft, believe me, if it were possible, then at least half of that number They built normal strategists and they wouldn’t know. And believe me, it wouldn’t become more expensive. And so we know what we have and hope for the good.
                        I wish you the same (good) Best regards! hi
                      2. +2
                        April 17 2024 19: 47
                        where can I get such a number of planes, believe me, if it were possible...

                        Oh, I could talk about this for a long time...
                        We've got this kind of construction going on here. fellow the second huge indoor stadium is being completed, modern training bases (open and closed) are growing like mushrooms - these are tens, and most likely hundreds of billions... I have great love for sports, but the country’s aviation industry is still much more important to me than several modern reinforced concrete boxes for entertainment...
                        Health and good luck to you hi
                      3. +2
                        April 17 2024 19: 48
                        Quote: Doccor18
                        Oh, I could talk about this for a long time...

                        And that's another story wink hi
            4. 0
              April 17 2024 18: 54
              Quote: NIKNN
              I repeat, airplanes are created according to technical specifications, and not according to an article from VO, although it is not a bad author.

              But the author does not propose using the Il-96 or even the Il-76 as a bomber. He proposes to make the most “simple”, inexpensive and convenient/suitable for mass production bomber. Using ready-made and available components and solutions to the maximum. For example, the wing and center section from the Il-76, a narrow fuselage capable of accommodating one or two drums with a missile launcher, a cabin from a Tu-160M ​​or from a PAK DA, an all-aspect BRLK "Belka" from a Su-57 and the possibility of using RVV DB and MD for self-defense. With maximum use of everything that is already in stock and in production.
              Engines can be chosen from PD-14. They should become the most popular in our Aviation; this will require expanding their production, which means it will have a positive impact on their price and availability throughout the entire life cycle of the aircraft. In addition, these engines have good service life and performance characteristics. And the main requirement should be:
              - ease of production and maintenance,
              - the ability to quickly organize large-scale/mass construction at a fairly high pace,
              - low price in procurement and in the life cycle,
              - maximum unification of engines and avionics with existing aircraft, incl. mandatory use of highly efficient civil aircraft engines.
              And in my opinion, seriously more than 100 such aircraft will be needed. in the series. Only for YES, about 200 of them are needed. , as well as for naval aviation at least 120 pcs. (as carriers of GZPKR, conducting patrols and aerial reconnaissance and for attacks on remote enemy bases on islands in the World Ocean).
              1. +3
                April 17 2024 19: 05
                Quote: bayard
                With maximum use of everything that is already in stock and in production.

                I suspect there is nothing in stock. And I repeat, the aircraft is created according to technical specifications, and what is cobbled together from what is available will have to be crammed in somehow and come up with techniques and ways of using them.
                Quote: bayard
                And the main requirement should be:
                - ease of production and maintenance,
                - the ability to quickly organize large-scale/mass construction at a fairly high pace,
                - low price in procurement and in the life cycle,
                - maximum unification of engines and avionics with existing aircraft, incl. mandatory use of highly efficient civil aircraft engines.
                And in my opinion, seriously more than 100 such aircraft will be needed. in the series. Only for YES, about 200 of them are needed. , as well as for naval aviation at least 120 pcs. (as carriers of GZPKR, conducting patrols and aerial reconnaissance and for attacks on remote enemy bases on islands in the World Ocean).

                So you issued a technical specification, if it is approved by the Ministry of Defense, then the designers will begin to create such a device, taking into account everything that can be used in it, although I think they will look at promising developments, taking into account future requirements for changing tasks. And what will this device be called later, maybe Il, or Tu....
                1. 0
                  April 17 2024 22: 47
                  Quote: NIKNN
                  I suspect there is nothing in stock.

                  Well, why?
                  The avionics and cabin can be taken from the Tu-160 and/or PAK DA (a couple of years ago they reported that the cabin was ready for it).
                  The avionics are from them.
                  Radar system "Belka" and already on production Su-57.
                  The PD-14 engine is certified (or already) and their mass production is launched. The MS-21 will require a lot of them. There are also quite a lot for this bomber, including spare ones, over time they will most likely be used for a new modification of the Il-76MD (as more economical) and a middle-class transport aircraft (with a payload capacity of 20 - 25 tons). The prospect of not even large-scale, but mass production of such engines is emerging.
                  It would be reasonable to borrow the wing and center section elements from the Il-76 due to the similar take-off weight parameters. The trick is in the unification and proven technical process. So you can safely order wings for these bombers in Ulyanovsk. There remains an open question regarding the chassis, there are several options, and... Comrade designers, let's get to work.
                  Quote: NIKNN
                  So you issued the terms of reference,

                  Actually, Alexander gave him away. Although I also proposed something similar a long time ago and we discussed it. But right now, when the threat of an inexorable war for survival has become obvious even to those holding it back, the question is raised again in a very timely manner. It is clear that a lot of time was spent on the eccentricities of the PAK DA, and a lot of money was spent on resuming production of the Tu-160M... But in no case should the ongoing production of the Tu-160 be stopped. Too much money has ALREADY been spent on it, cooperation has been established and KAZ is reaching the stated production rate of 3 aircraft per year.
                  I think that the Tu-160M ​​fleet needs to be increased to 50 - 60 units. , but reclassify it from a banal missile carrier (subsonic) into a long-range MPA missile carrier. Or simply as a carrier of civil protection anti-ship missiles, which can also be used for stationary objects. And use it as a “fire brigade” and to fight the enemy’s AUG KUG. This is where supersonic speed comes in handy - quickly reach the launch line and quickly retreat, quickly fly to the threatened direction and extinguish everything that prevents you from breathing smoothly.
                  Because the Tu-22M3 will not last long in service. According to the airframe's lifespan, they have at most 10-15 years left. And a supersonic carrier of the anti-ship missile system, especially at such long distances, is needed and even necessary.
                  We also need a new medium-range MPA aircraft to replace the Tu-33M3, capable of carrying two Ostrota missiles (GZUR) with a combat radius of 3000 - 3500 km. There is an understanding of what it should be, the necessary components and technologies are also there or are already on the way. But this is a completely different topic.
            5. +2
              April 20 2024 20: 36
              Quote: NIKNN
              It is unlikely that the modernized Il96 will be able to perform this task effectively.

              I once read an article on the Internet, the author of which claimed that during the development of the An-124 “Ruslan” transport aircraft, it was envisaged that it would serve as a carrier of strategic missiles, if “really needed”!
              1. +2
                April 20 2024 21: 13
                It happened, they were developing an air launch of ICBMs
          2. -3
            April 17 2024 11: 29
            The high price of a four-engine aircraft just speaks of its isolation from reality. What is much more needed are single-engine drones capable of both reconnaissance and carrying a bomb load.
    2. +2
      April 17 2024 16: 17
      Strategic bombers are designed to solve strategic problems using tactical nuclear weapons


      Strategic bombers were never intended to solve problems using tactical nuclear weapons.
      The voices in your head are lying, don't believe them.
      1. 0
        April 20 2024 19: 22
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The voices in your head are lying, don't believe them.

        And how can you not believe them if they also pour it? If you listen to you, then you can end up completely alone, having quarreled with the “inner voices”! Then who can I ask for a glass of vodka...water in a pinch? No.
  10. BAI
    +5
    April 17 2024 06: 18
    A new trend is being consolidated on the site - to take not by quality, but by the quantity of words and letters. In violation of the site's own rules
    1. +3
      April 17 2024 07: 55
      Andrey from Chelyabinsk once commented on it like this
      “Brevity is the sister of talent, but the mother-in-law of fees.”
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 10: 35
        Quote from solar
        “Brevity is the sister of talent, but the mother-in-law of fees.”

        Do they pay royalties to third party authors? It seems to be only their own, editorial.
    2. +1
      April 17 2024 16: 14
      How can a person like you evaluate the quality of this article?
      By the way, it cannot be considered large; it is an average read for 10 minutes.
      If the reader's brain is normal.
  11. +1
    April 17 2024 06: 18
    For carpet bombing and other “star” raids, only unmanned vehicles are needed (author, there is no need to advocate the mass murder of pilots). For surgical strikes with elements of searching for a target in the deep rear (the beginning of the database) - B-21, PAK-DA (and not always in a manned version), Tu-160 is best in MRA due to the high speed of arrival at the desired square at the strike line ( short reaction time) and patrol time. Massive strike of the Kyrgyz Republic - arsenal aircraft based on TA.
  12. +2
    April 17 2024 07: 14
    Thank you, Alexander!
    The first article on this topic that can be read without obscene language.
    For the first time, the issues of combat use of strategic bombers during a global war have been put at the forefront. Even though the mission statement lacks the main thing - the targets to be hit, but the meaning of the bomber - action over enemy territory (or occupied by it) - is indicated correctly. Everything else is secondary. And most importantly, the enemy for a strategic bomber is located overseas (the Arctic is also an ocean, for those who don’t know)
    Thus, we have the task of creating a device that can fly to enemy territory, overcome air defense, hit the target (targets) and, as they say, if you are very lucky, the road will lead you there, where you will land the plane.
    The first issue for which such an aircraft is built is range. And precisely in the form of a combat radius of action. The nonsense about mid-air refueling during combat use should be forgotten. Already in the mid-70s, we were able to cover targets at the refueling point by tracking their routes and determining the rendezvous point over the ocean. So the future strategist must take off at one gas station with a maximum load of fuel and weapons, fly to the combat mission area, overcome air defense, use weapons and try to return back.
    Comp. hangs I'll start a new comment.
    1. 0
      April 17 2024 07: 47
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      The first question for which such an aircraft is built is range.

      There are two questions here. One you have already indicated is range without refueling. Another, no less important - stealth. If it is not there, then hovering over enemy territory will be very problematic...
      1. -1
        April 17 2024 10: 36
        Actually, all this invisibility is a relative value. With developed detection means, including space, any target can be detected and destroyed blindly with active guidance. If the unified weapon detection and control system is destroyed, any aircraft becomes a needle in a haystack. At the same time, air defense is focal in nature, performing the functions of protecting specific objects and Western actions in threatened areas. So that’s right, strategic bombers are for second and further strategic strikes.
    2. 0
      April 17 2024 09: 44
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      So the future strategist must take off at one gas station with a maximum load of fuel and weapons, fly to the combat mission area, overcome air defense, use weapons and try to return back.

      Does he need to go back? It can simply be made unmanned. Then fuel can only be taken one way.

      The payload is cruise missiles specially designed for this task. That is, a not very heavy warhead (150-200 kilograms) and a range, say, up to 500 km. Our airplane can easily take at least a dozen such missiles. Plus some nuclear bombs from the UMPC.

      The task is to fly to America through the North Pole, fly over it, launching rockets and scattering bombs, after which you can fall in Florida, realizing the task has been completed.
      1. -2
        April 17 2024 10: 28
        Well, everything is simple.
        At the same time, a strategist is not needed. It is enough to have additional fuel tanks for this rocket, providing the necessary range, and to launch (so as not to spend money on launch) from a cargo airliner. Only the coverage area will increase.
        The trouble is that such drones will most likely be intercepted during an intercontinental flight, which can be avoided by delivering a short strike. And the crew - the decision-making team - adds variability to the solution of the problem.
        But it is necessary to work on the topic, especially taking into account the progress of AI.
        1. +1
          April 17 2024 10: 33
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          At the same time, a strategist is not needed. It is enough to have additional fuel tanks for this rocket, providing the necessary range, and to launch (so as not to spend money on launch) from a cargo airliner.

          Logistical considerations say that it is more profitable to transport many small ammunition closer to the target with a large carrier than to launch many separate (and quite large) carriers of the same ammunition from afar.
          1. -1
            April 17 2024 10: 46
            Isn't a large carrier intercepted coming towards you? Is he magical?
            It's like being at sea here. Mines can be laid from retrofitted transport, or from aircraft - the efficiency is different.
            1. 0
              April 17 2024 11: 01
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              Isn't a large carrier intercepted coming towards you? Is he magical?

              So, after all, we are talking about a “finishing” strike, after the use of Strategic Missile Forces and SSBNs. And, by the way, a large carrier can pave the way for itself with nuclear strikes if its missiles have a speed greater than the speed of the carrier. The concept of using the B-52 was approximately the same back in the 70s.
              1. -2
                April 17 2024 11: 07
                In the 70s, after the Linebacker-1,2, our greatest fear was that, having thinned out our SRAM air defense, the Americans would dump free-falling thermonuclear missiles on us. And then the B-1 was also tested. There were legends about him!
                I repeat, in capable hands, with competent leadership, a strategic bomber is a weapon of a protracted global war.
                1. -1
                  April 17 2024 11: 22
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  I repeat, in capable hands, with competent leadership, a strategic bomber is a weapon of a protracted global war.

                  I don't really believe in a long global war. In a war of annihilation, either both opponents, or at least one, will quickly lose the ability to continue the war, after which it will die out. And in such a scenario, disposable drones are the cheapest weapon. A manned “strategist,” even if he is able to return, will most likely find his airfield “vitrified.”
                  1. -1
                    April 17 2024 11: 25
                    You all believe in the Drone Almighty. It reigns only if there is a stable connection, and in a global war the very presence of communication will be a big problem. Now they are not doing it as it should. A deal, sir!
                    1. +1
                      April 17 2024 11: 30
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      It reigns only in the presence of a stable connection

                      Why does he need a stable connection? The targets are stationary and will not be able to escape.
                      1. 0
                        April 17 2024 11: 35
                        Targets are stationary and cannot escape

                        But this is the main misconception about strategic aviation. I did not write about selecting targets and planning strategic air operations. I note that in the event of a war over the ocean, all targets are actually mobile, and even protected. And it makes sense to glass some stationary objects until they have worked for you.
                      2. 0
                        April 17 2024 11: 39
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        I note that in the event of a war over the ocean, all targets are actually mobile, and even protected.

                        Do you mean aircraft carriers and their destruction? This is a separate topic. I don’t think that manned “strategists” will do much better than unmanned ones here.
                      3. +1
                        April 17 2024 13: 15
                        A drone without communication with an operator = a cruise missile with an assigned flight mission.
                      4. -1
                        April 17 2024 14: 17
                        Quote: Victor Leningradets
                        A drone without communication with an operator = a cruise missile with an assigned flight mission.

                        Right. Just imagine a cruise missile that carries not one warhead, but ten. And it does not crash into the first target, but flies along the route and drops its warheads on the targets.
                    2. 0
                      April 20 2024 19: 56
                      Quote: Victor Leningradets
                      You all believe in the Drone Almighty

                      God is one, but in different guises! wink Doesn't the Sarmat ICBM have the right to the title "Almighty Drone"? Wow, what did the South Koreans come up with! "Hyunmu-5"! If you want, throw -1 ton per 3 thousand km! And if you like, 8 tons per 300 km! And if there are 4 “five hundred” over a thousand and a half kilometers, and at different coordinates...... As? And all of this is in dimensions similar to the RSD-10 “Pioneer” ... (how many of them were “cut” at will Gorbi and Shevardnadze?) !
      2. +1
        April 17 2024 14: 52
        [/quote]It can simply be made unmanned[quote]
        has long been created, called an ICBM.
        1. -1
          April 17 2024 15: 04
          Quote: Sergey Valov
          has long been created, called an ICBM

          Talented idea. But an ICBM with a silo is no cheaper than a subsonic bomber, and is much easier to destroy with the first strike. The PGRK can theoretically escape from the first strike, but no one knows how far - this huge barn is perfectly visible from space.
          1. +1
            April 17 2024 15: 24
            [/quote]destroyed by the first blow is much easier
            a moot point.
            The PGRK can theoretically escape the first strike, but no one knows how far[quote]
            - and it doesn’t matter whether it’s far or not. It’s important here - either he left or he didn’t leave. And secondly, no one will wait for the first strike; dispersal will begin during the threatened period.
            And most importantly, no one will wait for the result of the adversary’s strike; the response will begin immediately after its launches are detected. Or maybe even before that.
            1. 0
              April 17 2024 15: 46
              Quote: Sergey Valov
              - and it doesn’t matter whether it’s far or not. It’s important here - either he left or he didn’t leave.

              Fine. He moved from his hangar to the neighboring one - it turns out that he also left. Yes

              Well, this, the PGRK escapes from impact at a speed of 60 km/h, and the bomber - 800 km/h.

              Quote: Sergey Valov
              And most importantly, no one will wait for the result of the adversary’s strike; the response will begin immediately after its launches are detected.

              Nobody knows this. And this is highly doubtful, given our typical speed of decision-making. It’s not even a fact that at least the team will have time to escape the same PGRK from under attack.
          2. 0
            April 20 2024 20: 26
            Quote: DenVB
            The PGRK can theoretically escape from the first strike, but no one knows how far - this huge barn is perfectly visible from space.

            What can't you see from space? what Bomber not allowed? Iskander is not allowed? "Yars" is not possible? Otherwise, why not give up both! Don't refuse! They say that even submarines can be detected from space... and then refuse? And silo ICBMs may turn out to be the most protected means of attack...thanks to concrete and missile defense/air defense systems! For example, the “reanimated” “MOZYR”! (By the way, the country’s leadership (Putin’s!) once spoke about its intention to protect large cities and certain “position areas” of the S-400 and S-500 air defense systems!)
  13. -3
    April 17 2024 07: 17
    The simpler Tu-95 is no longer produced, and, to be honest, it is far from ideal either.


    -There is no curtain in this tiatre. Don't put him down.
    I gave the article a +. It’s time to wake up, but it’s not time to develop in the right direction. "As the great Timokhin bequeathed."
    Skomorokhov would not have written a whole concept for adapting the aviation industry to the Air Force. And nuclear war under Tu214...
    Next pipipi...
  14. 0
    April 17 2024 07: 36
    And so - take off:
    Engine thrust is maximum, fuel consumption is enormous, the wing is in maximum lift mode. At the same time, in the future flight we will not need all this power, but we will be forced to bear the entire parasitic load: empty tanks, high-torque engines, excess wing area, and a chassis capable of withstanding take-off loads. Meanwhile, a way out has long been found. This is takeoff from the acceleration platform. Imagine a tank of sorts on a powerful chassis with huge bypass turbofan engines and a strategist on the back. It is he who must send the bomber to push on its further flight.
    I'm hanging shamelessly again.
  15. -1
    April 17 2024 07: 40
    The author either publishes a fairly old article or is himself out of date. Speaking about the restoration of production of the Tu 160 or about some hypothetical stealth. NO LONGER relevant. But we need different planes, the main thing is good and well thought out
  16. -9
    April 17 2024 07: 48
    Thanks to the author for an interesting material.
    Putting the TU-160 into service in the era of the dominance of cruise missiles is a crime. Reshetnikov was an excellent pilot and a bad commander-in-chief of the Air Force. Even worse is Tupolev, a noble fosterling, who brought a huge amount of harm to the country - the dead-end concept of the Tu-104, pushing through the production of the TU-22m2 by deception, an attempt to push the Tu-144 onto military pilots and sailors.
    It is a pity that the Tupolevs were not shot in 1940, like Kalinin, Taubin and others.
    The modern reincarnation of the Tu-160 in the era of drones and hypersound is the same criminal waste of resources to simulate “getting up from your knees.”
    The best bomber is a flying wing with 2 PS-90A, a smaller analogue of the B-2. On the basis of this aircraft it is necessary to make a tanker, an AWACS aircraft, a patrol aircraft, and an RTR-EW aircraft
    The main emphasis is on high takeoff and landing performance and patrol duration.
    The solution is simple, economical, and therefore we will instead see a huge amount of money thrown away in the form of “resumption” of production of the TU-160. 24 billion rubles were spent on the engine for the PAK DA, and things are still there.
    1. +3
      April 17 2024 09: 10
      Quote: Dozorny severa
      Putting the TU-160 into service in the era of the dominance of cruise missiles is a crime.

      Did it exist, this domination?

      Quote: Dozorny severa
      Reshetnikov was an excellent pilot and a poor commander in chief of the Air Force.

      Reshetnikov was not the commander-in-chief of the Air Force.

      Quote: Dozorny severa
      smuggling through deception of TU-22m2 production

      Are we reading the resolutions or imagining them? What's the alternative?

      Quote: Dozorny severa
      The best bomber is a flying wing with 2 PS-90A, a smaller version of the B-2.

      Are we reinventing PAK DA?

      Quote: Dozorny severa
      On the basis of this aircraft it is necessary to make a tanker, an AWACS aircraft, a patrol aircraft, and an RTR-EW aircraft

      How and most importantly why with a living Tu-214?
  17. +2
    April 17 2024 07: 50
    To those who ruined their own aviation, both military and civil in peacetime--The thesis that “the Bolsheviks in the USSR did not understand” is absolutely necessary.

    And now smart people don’t understand how such technology was created 50 years ago. The same “weaving” of the Sukhoi Design Bureau (project of the 60s) had a ceiling height of 25 km. But a modern Patriot will only reach 20 km. Missile carrier too expensive? Is it normal to withdraw hundreds of billions of dollars from Russia every year?
    Eklmn..... We need to work, and not waste money and not talk about understanding or misunderstanding of the Bolsheviks."
    1. The comment was deleted.
  18. -2
    April 17 2024 07: 51
    Quote: Victor Leningradets
    Even though the mission statement lacks the main thing - the targets to be hit, but the meaning of the bomber - action over enemy territory (or occupied by it) - is indicated correctly

    It is not clear what is true here - is this in the era of cruise missiles?
    1. -2
      April 17 2024 10: 42
      A strategic bomber is not needed to launch long-range cruise missiles. And you don’t need an airplane at all, just a V-1 style pepelats. Take off, launch and let this story drift towards its goal. It just takes a lot of time to fly, and you can intercept it with anything if you find it.
  19. +1
    April 17 2024 09: 01
    Quote: Alexander Timokhin
    And proof that all this is unnecessary is the fact that the much more primitive, low-speed, subsonic turboprop Tu-95MS performs all the same tasks as the Tu-160, with the same efficiency, but at the cost of lower costs.

    Really? With eight X-101s, the practical flight range of the Tu-95MS is 6500 km, while the Tu-160 with twelve such missiles has 10600 km. Or is range not important for a long-range aircraft? And its speed at low altitude is half that.

    Quote: Alexander Timokhin
    The average person is unaware, but the Tu-95MS is more important than the Tu-160; if it were necessary to reduce aircraft for the sake of economy, then it would be the 160s that would have to be taken out of service.

    The average person is unaware that the Tu-95MS aircraft is old not so much physically as structurally. The airframe and engines are from the late 40s - early 50s, aircraft systems from the 60s, electronic equipment and weapons from the 70s, and if the latter can be modernized, then nothing can be done about the first two. And this most directly affects serviceability and combat readiness.
    How will it, say, escape from an attack if the preparation time for a flight is many times longer than that of the Tu-160?
    1. +1
      April 17 2024 16: 11
      Really? With eight X-101s, the practical flight range of the Tu-95MS is 6500 km, while the Tu-160 with twelve such missiles has 10600 km.


      Well here are some examples for you
      1. Reaching the launch line for the Kyrgyz Republic in Alaska from Russian airspace when taking off from Engels; immediately after launch, refueling will be required in the air. The length of the route is 6000-6150 km.

      2. The same task when taking off from Ukrainka - 3700 km, that is, he has enough fuel to fly to some concrete runway.

      They won't send him to the USA with a bomb. So does the Tu-95 have enough range?

      The airframe and engines are from the late 40s - early 50s, aircraft systems from the 60s, electronic equipment and weapons from the 70s, and if the latter can be modernized, then nothing can be done about the first two. And this most directly affects serviceability and combat readiness.


      Yes, I would like to know how the design of an aircraft airframe, manufactured, for example, in 1987 and undergoing all repairs and modernization, affects combat readiness. In reality, for such a task as launching a missile launcher, it is quite enough.

      How will it, say, escape from an attack if the preparation time for a flight is many times longer than that of the Tu-160?


      It won’t work, but the Tu-160 won’t work either. This is not a B-52 by any means.
      1. +2
        April 17 2024 20: 47
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Well here are some examples for you
        1. Reaching the launch line for the Kyrgyz Republic in Alaska from Russian airspace when taking off from Engels; immediately after launch, refueling will be required in the air. The length of the route is 6000-6150 km.

        2. The same task when taking off from Ukrainka - 3700 km, that is, he has enough fuel to fly to some concrete runway.

        That is

        Quote: Alexander Timokhin
        for it you have to come up with a concept for combat use.

        is not it? What if it is necessary to strike Halifax, San Pedro, or an even more distant target?

        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Yes, I would like to know how the design of an aircraft airframe, manufactured, for example, in 1987 and undergoing all repairs and modernization, affects combat readiness.

        Read the entire proposal.

        Quote: timokhin-aa
        In reality, for such a task as launching a missile launcher, it is quite enough.

        In reality, it does not solve problems as efficiently as the Tu-160.

        Quote: timokhin-aa
        This is not a B-52 by any means.

        Of course, when creating the B-52, the goal was not to quickly recover from attack and ensure increased basing autonomy.
        1. -2
          April 17 2024 23: 48
          is not it? What if it is necessary to strike Halifax, San Pedro, or an even more distant target?


          Jump airfield, in-flight refueling, in the future, when we have smarter leadership at the helm, and, as a result, a sound technical policy, then also external fuel tanks, and additional fuel tanks in the weapons compartment, after some next modernization .

          Read the entire proposal.


          Yes, I was just being sarcastic.
          Your arguments that the outdated Tu-95 somehow significantly affects its combat use would be correct if this aircraft did something other than launch missiles from safe airspace and reconnaissance over the ocean in peacetime.
          But he doesn't.

          In reality, it does not solve problems as efficiently as the Tu-160.


          In reality, its capabilities are sufficient, and the performance characteristics of the Tu-160 are redundant for the tasks being solved.
          It would also be very interesting to compare the cost of the life cycle, the cost of a flight hour, etc.

          Of course, when creating the B-52, the goal was not to quickly recover from attack and ensure increased basing autonomy.


          What are you saying?
          But I will disappoint you - the B-52 is the only attack aircraft in the world on which such a problem is solved - when an ICBM launch on US territory was detected, the SAC managed to raise several dozen, and maybe more than a hundred bombers, faster than the air bases were covered by a missile strike . With gas station attendants.
          And this is mentioned in the article, and a link is given to another article, where this issue is fully disclosed.
          1. +1
            April 18 2024 07: 02
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Airfield jump, in-flight refueling

            If we think like this, then why do we need such a large aircraft if there is a Su-34 with a series of hundreds of units? Half the range? One rocket instead of eight? So what, jump airfield, refueling in the air!

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            In reality, its capabilities are sufficient, and the performance characteristics of the Tu-160 are redundant for the tasks being solved.

            First of all, the range is insufficient. Why, after the MS-16, did they make the MS-6 with a lightweight wing and a simplified SUV? Just because of the range.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            when we have smarter leadership at the helm, and, as a result, a sound technical policy, then we will also have external fuel tanks, and additional fuel tanks in the weapons compartment, after some next modernization.

            What other hanging tanks? These ones are not fully fueled, because the take-off weight is limited.

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            It would also be very interesting to compare the cost of the life cycle, the cost of a flight hour, etc.

            Please compare objectively, since value judgments are already present.
            1. -1
              April 18 2024 11: 49
              If we think like this, then why do we need such a large aircraft if there is a Su-34 with a series of hundreds of units? Half the range? One rocket instead of eight?


              Why write this, the Su-34 is a tactical aircraft, it is, in principle, unsuitable for the tasks that the Tu-95 and 160 solve, the Tu-95 can be compared with the Tu-160, but not with a front-line bomber.

              The facts are this: given the worst performance characteristics, the Tu-95 is sufficient for realistic combat use, and its modernization potential is not even close to being exhausted.

              First of all, the range is insufficient. Why, after the MS-16, did they make the MS-6 with a lightweight wing and a simplified SUV? Just because of the range.


              The shorter range of the Tu-95 will become a significant factor when we learn to fight like Americans, and we will need to solve some problems other than launching missiles from protected airspace. Before that, see the example of the attack on Alaska.
              In addition, local wars are still much more likely than a war with the United States, and the cost of operation will be important there.

              What other hanging tanks? These ones are not fully fueled, because the take-off weight is limited.


              You can take off with incomplete refueling and refuel in the air later.
              But, I repeat, all these are extreme options, but in reality there will be a flight to a combat radius of 3000 km without refueling, and launch of the missile from a safe distance. Like in Syria and Ukraine. And the Tu-95 is enough for this.

              Please compare objectively, since value judgments are already present.


              I have no data on our aircraft. But by analogy with the Americans, you can estimate that the cost of a flight hour for a B-52 is 1 times lower than that of a B-3,75B.
              I don’t think our picture is much different.
              Let me remind you that if the Armed Forces ruin a country, then it cannot afford them. No budget can be endless.
              1. 0
                April 19 2024 18: 37
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Why write this, the Su-34 is a tactical aircraft, it is, in principle, unsuitable for the tasks that the Tu-95 and 160 solve, the Tu-95 can be compared with the Tu-160, but not with a front-line bomber.

                The Ugolny and Su-34 will be able to hit Alaska with a cruise missile, and this is just your example of the task that the Tu-95MS solves.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                The facts are this: given the worst performance characteristics, the Tu-95 is sufficient for realistic combat use

                For some options.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                and its modernization potential is not even close to being exhausted.

                To modernize it more significantly than the MSM, it needs to be completely gutted, which is hardly advisable with its remaining lifespan.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                The shorter range of the Tu-95 will become a significant factor when we learn to fight like Americans, and we will need to solve some problems other than launching missiles from protected airspace.

                What is so supernatural about the Americans?

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Before that, see the example of the attack on Alaska.

                Can you give an example of hitting something more distant?

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                In addition, local wars are still much more likely than a war with the United States, and the cost of operation will be important there.

                Then we need to have a double park - for Americans and for everyone else? Isn't it easier to move to a single PAK YES?

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                You can take off with incomplete refueling and refuel in the air later.

                No difference at all. Empty weight 98,5 tons, load (eight cruise missiles) 19,2 tons, maximum refueling 82,5 tons, maximum flight weight 187 tons. Unless you roll these outboard tanks empty.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                I have no data on our aircraft. But by analogy with the Americans, you can estimate that the cost of a flight hour for a B-52 is 1 times lower than that of a B-3,75B.

                They write that no.



                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Let me remind you that if the Armed Forces ruin a country, then it cannot afford them.

                Long-range aviation is unlikely to be among the first destroyers.
                1. 0
                  April 26 2024 13: 13
                  The Ugolny and Su-34 will be able to hit Alaska with a cruise missile, and this is just your example of the task that the Tu-95MS solves.


                  A small rocket, and there will be few of them. And Alaska is just one example from a hypothetical war with the United States; you can come up with others.

                  For some options.


                  Yes, but for the most realistic one.

                  What is so supernatural about the Americans?


                  Well, all these throws at low altitudes, etc.

                  Then we need to have a double park - for Americans and for everyone else? Isn't it easier to move to a single PAK YES?


                  It is BETTER to move to a single PAK, and it is EASIER to quickly develop the ersatz I propose. I’m not against PAK YES, I just don’t believe that the country will overcome it.

                  They write that no.


                  They write that yes.
                  I was not lazy and found accurate, fresh data. It turns out they count them every year. And these numbers change from year to year.
                  Here are the numbers for 2023
                  https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106217.pdf

                  B-1 - $173,014
                  B-52 - $88,354

                  Your picture is very incorrect, the figure for the B-1 is correct but very old, for the B-52 then it was a little more than 16000. And now it’s like in the GAO report.

                  To modernize it more significantly than the MSM, it needs to be completely gutted, which is hardly advisable with its remaining lifespan.


                  I assess the risk of war with the United States as unacceptably high in the period from approximately 2027 to 2035. I think there will be enough resources until this time, and modernization is needed for a reason, but for this war.
                  1. 0
                    April 27 2024 11: 05
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    A small rocket, and there will be few of them.

                    The X-101 excels both in size and weight. And there are several X-SDs at once.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    And Alaska is just one example from a hypothetical war with the United States; you can come up with others.

                    What other ones are possible?

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Well, all these throws at low altitudes, etc.

                    Ours can do this too.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    It is BETTER to move to a single PAK, and it is EASIER to quickly develop the ersatz I propose.

                    Not easier and not faster. According to PAK, YES, at least experimental work and preparation for production are underway, but the proposed ersatz is only in your head.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    They write that yes.
                    I was not lazy and found accurate, fresh data. It turns out they count them every year. And these numbers change from year to year.
                    Here are the numbers for 2023
                    https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-106217.pdf

                    The report is excellent, a lot of interesting information.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Your picture is very incorrect, the figure for the B-1 is correct but very old, the B-52 then had a little more than 16000.

                    Business Insider article from 2016, therefore the infographic shows data for 2013 or 2014 and they agree with the report. So the picture is correct.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    And now - as in the GAO report.

                    Now the flight hours of the B-1B fleet are more than two times less; the diagrams clearly show that this greatly affects the cost of a flight hour.

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    and modernization is needed for a reason, but for this war.

                    What kind of modernization is needed?
                    1. 0
                      April 27 2024 14: 24
                      The X-101 excels in both size and weight.


                      Two pieces. Limit three, if one is hung under the fuselage. But where will he go with such a load? Not counting the fact that advanced airfields will be destroyed during the first strike.
                      This is not an option. Including because he will have his own tactical tasks.

                      What other ones are possible?


                      Are you testing me or what? Hawaii, Andersen, Britain. Need more?

                      Not easier and not faster. According to PAK YES, at least experimental work and preparation for production are underway


                      And the result is obvious. I like the concept of PAK DA. The question is whether the country will take it out or not. I think no.

                      and the proposed ersatz is only in your head.


                      But you have no right to deny that such an aircraft can be created faster than a high-tech “ultimate” bomber.
                      And it has one serious advantage - working with UAVs.

                      What kind of modernization is needed?


                      For the war with the USA - the possibility of a quick take-off (APU with a long service life so that it can work for weeks, a navigation system that allows you to accurately determine the position of the aircraft without GLONASS in any conditions, the engines must reach take-off power without warming up, during taxiing), the possibility of suspending the PTB instead missile parts, the main thing is the ability to load ANY flight mission in the Kyrgyz Republic from the aircraft.
                      Possibility of using nuclear bombs with UMPC, incl. with input of target data in flight.
                      Another modern BKO, including towed traps.
                      I would conduct research on the possibility of creating an artillery installation capable of shooting down missiles fired at an airplane. Maybe it will work out.
                      For local wars - quick conversion of the aircraft into a “clean” bomber, with SPB, UMPC, KAB, container aiming station, and KAB illumination.
                      1. 0
                        April 30 2024 08: 59
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Two pieces. Limit three, if one is hung under the fuselage. But where will he go with such a load? Not counting the fact that advanced airfields will be destroyed during the first strike.
                        This is not an option.

                        Now we are changing the Tu-95MS to the Tu-160, and the Su-34 to the Tu-95MS. The arguments are the same, aren't they?

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Are you testing me or what? Hawaii, Andersen, Britain. Need more?

                        All this is relatively close. If we limit ourselves to such goals, then why do we need long-range aviation at all?

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        And the result is obvious.

                        There are results. The engine has been created, as have JSC and REO. What's wrong with the glider, yes, that's a question.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        But you have no right to deny that such an aircraft can be created faster than a high-tech “ultimate” bomber.

                        It could have been created if work had started 10 years ago. Now PAK DA has a head start.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        APU with a large resource so that it can work for weeks

                        Is this necessary? Our means will do a better job of ensuring this. The crew will still not be able to live in the cockpit of an aircraft ready for takeoff for weeks.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        a navigation system that allows you to accurately determine the position of an aircraft without GLONASS in any conditions

                        Already available.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        engines must reach takeoff power without warming up

                        Excuse me here, in turboprops it is necessary to heat the oil in the gearbox and the mechanism for changing the propeller pitch. Standard NK-12 warms up for 10 minutes.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        possibility of suspension of PTB instead of part of the missiles

                        There is no weight reserve.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        the main thing is the ability to load ANY flight mission in the Kyrgyz Republic from the aircraft.

                        How do you think it is now?

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Possibility of using nuclear bombs with UMPC, incl. with input of target data in flight.

                        He definitely doesn’t need this.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Another modern BKO, including towed traps.

                        Perhaps, but with his speed and maneuverability, the path into the enemy’s air defense zone is prohibited.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        I would conduct research on the possibility of creating an artillery installation capable of shooting down missiles fired at an airplane.

                        Better with a laser, taking into account the effectiveness of guns, this is even more realistic.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        For local wars - quick conversion of the aircraft into a “clean” bomber, with SPB, UMPC, KAB, container aiming station, and KAB illumination.

                        Here even the Tu-22M3 is redundant, the Su-34 is enough for the eyes. Or better yet, a Su-35 or MiG-35 with a container and clusters of UPABs.
                      2. 0
                        1 May 2024 16: 11
                        Now we are changing the Tu-95MS to the Tu-160, and the Su-34 to the Tu-95MS. The arguments are the same, aren't they?


                        The arguments are the same, the result is different in terms of the loss of the number of missiles on the carrier and the range. In one case we carry 12 instead of 8 missiles, in the other instead of 8 we carry 2, the losses in range are the same.
                        So the same, but not the same.

                        All this is relatively close. If we limit ourselves to such goals, then why do we need long-range aviation at all?


                        Well, let's hit the target in Nevada with a bomb. Anadyr as a jump-off airfield, landing for refueling on the way back there, flying over the Aleutians. The one-way range around Alaska is 5293 km.
                        If you add 2 air refuelings over YOUR territory (one there, one back), then you can do without Anadyr.
                        And if you work well in Alaska, the Aleutians and the West Coast of the Kyrgyz Republic with special warheads, then such a strike will even be possible.
                        What if, instead of flying to a target with a bomb, they still use missile launchers?
                        I don’t know if Google Maps will attach the screen or not...

                        Excuse me here, in turboprops it is necessary to heat the oil in the gearbox and the mechanism for changing the propeller pitch. Standard NK-12 warms up for 10 minutes.


                        External heating can be done, this can be solved. Even instantaneous can be done technically.

                        How do you think it is now?


                        Several pre-formed flight missions stored in the rocket’s memory are at best.

                        He definitely doesn’t need this.


                        The supply of missiles will sooner or later run out, and any crew will be forced to work with bombs

                        Perhaps, but with his speed and maneuverability, the path into the enemy’s air defense zone is prohibited.


                        But the B-52 was not ordered in Vietnam and Iraq? After all, it does not have decisive advantages in either speed or maneuverability. Faster and better, but not so much that it gives a decisive advantage in survivability.

                        Better with a laser, taking into account the effectiveness of guns, this is even more realistic.


                        Well, so be it.

                        Here even the Tu-22M3 is redundant, the Su-34 is enough for the eyes. Or better yet, a Su-35 or MiG-35 with a container and clusters of UPABs.


                        Shoigu is now deploying the African Corps there, and the opponents of this corps do not have any air defense, but at the same time they are very far from the territory of the Russian Federation.

                        PO PAK DA: Once again, I am not against this project. I am for. I like the concept of this aircraft and I would be happy if it replaced all our bombers.
                        But we won't pull it off.
                        The Kazan plant is now being reconstructed for passenger aircraft. There will simply be no place to build a PAK DA there.
                        Therefore, we need to start working on the ersatz urgently, otherwise in 10 years we will be left without YES at all.
                        Moreover, the aircraft in my concept has a radical advantage over all existing and planned bombers in the world - the ability to work with UAVs at the level as described in the article.
                      3. 0
                        Yesterday, 19: 11
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The arguments are the same, the result is different in terms of the loss of the number of missiles on the carrier and the range. In one case we carry 12 instead of 8 missiles, in the other instead of 8 we carry 2, the losses in range are the same.
                        So the same, but not the same.

                        Yeah, now there are already losses in range. This means that the conclusion in the article about a single advantage is incorrect.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Well, let's hit the target in Nevada with a bomb. Anadyr as a jump-off airfield, landing for refueling on the way back there, flying over the Aleutians. The one-way range around Alaska is 5293 km.
                        If you add 2 air refuelings over YOUR territory (one there, one back), then you can do without Anadyr.
                        And if you work well in Alaska, the Aleutians and the West Coast of the Kyrgyz Republic with special warheads, then such a strike will even be possible.
                        What if, instead of flying to a target with a bomb, they still use missile launchers?
                        I don’t know if Google Maps will attach the screen or not...

                        Your route is well within range of fighter jets from Alaska. And if the airfields there have already been destroyed, then why go around it? And will Anadyr survive in this case? Well, the Tu-5293MS will not fly 95 km round trip without refueling. And the Tu-160, by the way, is very good. wink

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        External heating can be done, this can be solved. Even instantaneous can be done technically.

                        Something similar happened on the Japanese I-400 submarines. But won't this complicate the already difficult process of pre-flight preparation?

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Several pre-formed flight missions stored in the rocket’s memory are at best.

                        The route is loaded into the storage device from the carrier before launch.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The supply of missiles will sooner or later run out, and any crew will be forced to work with bombs

                        Extremely unlikely, especially in a war of annihilation.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        But the B-52 was not ordered in Vietnam and Iraq?

                        In Vietnam they suffered serious losses; in Iraq they were not within the air defense coverage area.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Faster and better, but not so much that it gives a decisive advantage in survivability.

                        There is a big difference between 540 km/h and 1060 km/h.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Shoigu is now deploying the African Corps there, and the opponents of this corps do not have any air defense, but at the same time they are very far from the territory of the Russian Federation.

                        Well, it’s not the Tu-95 that solves tactical problems; it’s much easier and most importantly more efficient to deploy a Yak-130 squadron.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        But we won't pull it off.

                        I don’t understand where such confidence comes from, especially considering the fact that the real appearance of the PAK DA is still unknown?
              2. 0
                April 20 2024 14: 15
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                the cost of a flight hour for the B-52 is 1 times lower than that of the B-3,75B.

                Well, not at 3,75, of course. There's less of a difference. Moreover, if you look closely, you can see that the cost of a flight hour greatly depends on the flight hours. A significant part of this is the fixed costs of maintaining the aircraft fleet.
            2. 0
              April 18 2024 13: 51
              Quote: Lozovik
              What other hanging tanks? These ones are not fully fueled, because the take-off weight is limited.

              What is it limited by?
              1. 0
                April 19 2024 10: 41
                Wing lift. Or do you think no matter how much you load, it will still fly?
                1. 0
                  April 19 2024 12: 46
                  Quote: Lozovik
                  Wing lift. Or do you think no matter how much you load, it will still fly?

                  I thought so too. But I recently read in the comments on the website that the maximum take-off weight is limited by the load-bearing capacity of the landing gear pneumatics. I don't know if this is really true.

                  If you think about it logically, a plane usually takes off at a speed slower than the speed at which it flies. If you accelerate it more, it will take off even with an overload. A longer runway is needed, and higher-torque engines are desirable.
                  1. 0
                    April 19 2024 14: 36
                    Quote: DenVB
                    But I recently read in the comments on the website that the maximum take-off weight is limited by the load-bearing capacity of the landing gear pneumatics

                    It happens, but not for everyone.
                    The Tu-95MS has the following written in its operating manual: maximum take-off weight 185 tons, maximum flight weight 187 tons.
                    1. 0
                      April 19 2024 14: 43
                      Quote: Lozovik
                      The Tu-95MS has the following written in its operating manual: maximum take-off weight 185 tons, maximum flight weight 187 tons.

                      Which in itself is strange, don’t you think?

                      Again, if you think about it, any aircraft can withstand an overload of at least 2-3 g. There should be enough lift - it is determined (within reasonable limits) by the angle of attack. And all this will not last long - in 1000-2000 kilometers the excess fuel will be used up and the weight will drop to the permitted limit.
                      1. 0
                        April 19 2024 15: 16
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Which in itself is strange, don’t you think?

                        No, there is nothing strange about this.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        Again, if you think about it, any aircraft can withstand an overload of at least 2-3 g.

                        Tu-95MS with a mass of more than 156 tons -> ny additional = 1,5.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        There should be enough lift - it is determined (within reasonable limits) by the angle of attack.

                        Greater angle of attack -> greater drag. How to accelerate and gain altitude without excess thrust?
                      2. 0
                        April 19 2024 16: 27
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        No, there is nothing strange about this.

                        Exactly. This indicates that the aircraft is capable of flying with more weight than what it is allowed to take off with.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Tu-95MS with a mass of more than 156 tons -> ny additional = 1,5.

                        Even this is more than enough.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Greater angle of attack -> greater drag. How to accelerate and gain altitude without excess thrust?

                        Little by little, little by little. He is still above his territory.
                      3. 0
                        April 19 2024 18: 48
                        Quote: DenVB
                        Exactly. This indicates that the aircraft is capable of flying with more weight than what it is allowed to take off with.

                        For 2 tons. Is there a big difference?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        Even this is more than enough.

                        Sufficient for what?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        Little by little, little by little.

                        How is this even possible?
                      4. 0
                        April 19 2024 18: 56
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        For 2 tons. Is there a big difference?

                        It still exists.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Sufficient for what?

                        In order to take an extra ten or two tons of fuel.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        How is this even possible?

                        What's impossible about this? Airplanes fly overloaded. This is not some kind of news. Usually they try to avoid this, but if we have a global thermonuclear war, then we can loosen the bolt a little on peacetime norms.
                      5. 0
                        April 19 2024 19: 07
                        Quote: DenVB
                        It still exists.

                        Even if you don’t go into details, for some reason the takeoff is smaller, isn’t it?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        In order to take an extra ten or two tons of fuel.

                        How will a reboot allow this to happen?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        What's impossible about this?

                        Prove it. Documents, calculations...
                      6. 0
                        April 19 2024 19: 16
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Even if you don’t go into details, for some reason the takeoff is smaller, isn’t it?

                        If you remember, this is exactly what I asked - what is the limit on take-off weight.

                        How? Prove it. Documents, calculations.
                      7. 0
                        April 22 2024 20: 50
                        Quote: DenVB
                        If you remember, this is exactly what I asked - what is the limit on take-off weight.

                        Above is the answer.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        How? Prove it. Documents, calculations.

                        Flight manual for aircraft VP-021. I don’t see any point in arguing with the main operational document, nor in fantasizing about the extra 20 tons.
                        By the way, in the end they didn’t answer what overload has to do with it.
                      8. 0
                        April 22 2024 21: 12
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Above is the answer.

                        No.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        I don’t see any point in arguing with the main operational document

                        I see.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        By the way, in the end they didn’t answer what overload has to do with it.

                        This is done at school.
                      9. 0
                        April 23 2024 18: 59
                        Quote: DenVB
                        No.

                        Lifting force, read carefully.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        I see.

                        I don't see any understanding yet.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        This is done at school.

                        Enlighten, be kind.
                      10. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 01
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Lifting force, read carefully.

                        No. This has already been discussed.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        I don't see any understanding yet.

                        Well, okay.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Enlighten, be kind.

                        Everything is written in the physics textbook.
                      11. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 04
                        Quote: DenVB
                        No. This has already been discussed.

                        Who discussed?

                        Quote: DenVB
                        Everything is written in the physics textbook.

                        I would like a quote feel
                      12. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 09
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Who discussed?

                        I do not know.

                        Quote: Lozovik
                        I would like a quote

                        If you haven't noticed, I lost interest in discussing with you after you switched to unbeatable arguments like "I don’t see any point in arguing with the main operational document"You don’t see - so why suffer? Let the world burn, but the instructions will triumph.
                      13. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 18
                        Quote: DenVB
                        I do not know.

                        Find out.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        If you haven’t noticed, I lost interest in discussing with you after you switched to unbeatable arguments like “I don’t see any point in arguing with the main operational document.”

                        The interest disappeared because they could not justify their fantasies. Next came an attempt to get off topic.

                        Quote: DenVB
                        If you don’t see, then why bother?

                        Yeah, for this you need to calculate the starting thrust of the power plant, the drag coefficient at takeoff speed, and calculate the climb gradient laughing
                      14. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 21
                        Quote: Lozovik
                        Yeah, for this you need to calculate the starting thrust of the power plant, the drag coefficient at takeoff speed, and calculate the climb gradient

                        Absolutely.
                      15. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 26
                        Any specific thoughts on this?
                      16. 0
                        April 23 2024 19: 31
                        No. I don’t even have the initial data for such calculations.
          2. +1
            April 18 2024 07: 26
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Yes, I was just being sarcastic.
            Your arguments that the outdated Tu-95 somehow significantly affects its combat use would be correct if this aircraft did something other than launch missiles from safe airspace

            You yourself pay a lot of attention to combat readiness in your articles, so why do you give preference to an aircraft with a lower combat readiness?

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            But I will disappoint you - the B-52 is the only attack aircraft in the world on which such a problem is solved

            Can you explain why, in your opinion, the Tu-160 does not solve this problem?

            Quote: timokhin-aa
            And this is mentioned in the article, and a link is given to another article, where this issue is fully disclosed.

            No offense, but you really like to take some insignificant little thing and put it at the forefront and ignore everything else. For example, will five crew members, three of whom need to climb onto the second deck, take their places faster than four on a Tu-160, from which a technician will remove the stepladder?
            1. 0
              April 18 2024 12: 02
              You yourself pay a lot of attention to combat readiness in your articles, so why do you give preference to an aircraft with a lower combat readiness?


              Because in a global war, the difference in favor of the Tu-160 that exists will be insufficient. And if the aircraft are properly modernized, the shortcomings of the Tu-95 will be eliminated.
              And it costs less to operate.

              Can you explain why, in your opinion, the Tu-160 does not solve this problem?


              Can you start all the engines of a Tu-160 in 40-60 seconds without an APU and external sources of electricity and air?
              It's not just about the stepladder. The design of the B-52 makes it possible to lift it into the air and move it away from the airfield faster than a detected ICBM early warning system can destroy that airfield. This aircraft allows you to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike by aircraft.
              It was entirely designed for this purpose, and its entrance hatch, and the system for parrying side winds, and the pyrostarters in the engine nacelles - everything is for this.
              1. 0
                April 18 2024 13: 53
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Can you start all the engines of a Tu-160 in 40-60 seconds without an APU and external sources of electricity and air?

                I don't know if we can. But if we can’t, we need to work on it so that such an opportunity appears.
              2. 0
                April 19 2024 11: 53
                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Because in a global war, the difference in favor of the Tu-160 that exists will be insufficient.

                On the contrary, it is redundant, isn’t it?

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                And if the aircraft are properly modernized, the shortcomings of the Tu-95 will be eliminated.

                What disadvantages do you think it has?

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                And it costs less to operate.

                Maybe. But if behind this “cheaper” lies the inability to complete the task, then the difference in cost will no longer matter.

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                Can you start all the engines of a Tu-160 in 40-60 seconds without an APU and external sources of electricity and air?

                These conditions are inadequate:
                - it is not necessary to start all engines; two can be started while taxiing. In general, it is possible to start a pair of engines simultaneously.
                - engines cannot be started without air, with the help of UVZ or APU, the latter is started from batteries, the time to reach the mode is 25-30 seconds.
                - He doesn't need electricity. The APU can thresh for days on end without shutting down, generating electricity and air for the air conditioning system, ensuring, say, standby duty No. 1. The APU can also be used to perform pre-flight preparation; the B-52 cannot do that.
                Starting up is a simple matter, the NK-32 reaches idle speed in no more than a minute (depending on the time of year). Much more important is the ability to work without warming up - with cold oil, unset radial clearances, etc., the NK-32 is designed for this. The question is whether the decrepit TF33 can do this...

                Quote: timokhin-aa
                He was invented for this purpose

                Believe it or not, Tu-160 too.
                1. 0
                  April 26 2024 13: 26
                  Here is a simple example - “cartridge start”



                  And that's all.

                  Believe it or not, Tu-160 too.


                  But here the question arises of its price, inter-flight service, etc.
                  1. 0
                    April 27 2024 10: 45
                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    Here is a simple example - “cartridge start”

                    And that's all.

                    Not everything, we continue to stand and warm up. And the generator on the starboard side for beauty?

                    Quote: timokhin-aa
                    But here the question arises of its price, inter-flight service, etc.

                    Do you want to say more expensive and much more than the Tu-95MS? Do you think so or do you know?
                    1. 0
                      April 27 2024 13: 43
                      Not everything, we continue to stand and warm up. And the generator on the starboard side for beauty?


                      No, we didn’t warm up, but literally half a minute later we started taxiing. This was the whole point of combat duty with nuclear weapons on board - it was necessary to take off faster than the ICBM warheads reach the airbase.
                      The generator is not connected to the aircraft and is used in case of failure with a combat launch. Please note that the generator does not interfere with the plane's movement.

                      Do you want to say more expensive and much more than the Tu-95MS? Do you think so or do you know?


                      I guess, but I'm right in this case. By analogy with the B-52/B-B, our ratio is similar.
                      1. 0
                        April 30 2024 08: 16
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        No, we didn’t warm up, but literally half a minute later we started taxiing.

                        Really? The technicians didn’t even begin to inspect the plane and remove the safety pins; the control gear was not disconnected; one of them remained seated. The next video shows a generally funny situation: after starting, the hatch opened on its own laughing

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        The generator is not connected to the aircraft and is used in case of failure with a combat launch.

                        The generator will not help him in any way; there is no turbo starter. In this case, you need to install an air start, or increase the operating mode of other engines and start from them.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        By analogy with the B-52/B-B, our ratio is similar.

                        This is a good ratio, the costs are almost the same. Then the Tu-95MS has only one plus - that it exists.
                      2. 0
                        1 May 2024 14: 31
                        Really? The technicians didn’t even begin to inspect the plane and remove the safety pins; the control gear was not disconnected; one of them remained seated. The next video shows a generally funny situation: after starting, the hatch opened on its own


                        Because this video shows a launch from a pyrostarter, and not a take-off on alarm. Search YouTube, there are plenty of videos with full rise of planes.
                        There, the pilots are required to break the checks themselves; it is believed that the technician may panic and abandon his post from the realization that a real nuclear attack is underway on the airbase.

                        The generator will not help him in any way; there is no turbo starter.


                        There, compressed air must be supplied from somewhere, maybe the compressor is simply not visible.

                        This is a good ratio, the costs are almost the same.


                        Twice the difference.
                      3. 0
                        Yesterday, 18: 39
                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Because this video shows a launch from a pyrostarter, and not a take-off on alarm. Search YouTube, there are plenty of videos with full rise of planes.

                        I couldn’t find it right away without cutting.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        There, the pilots are required to break the checks themselves; it is believed that the technician may panic and abandon his post from the realization that a real nuclear attack is underway on the airbase.

                        There is something like this on video, that’s where the real waste of time is, the circus, by God laughing

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        There, compressed air must be supplied from somewhere, maybe the compressor is simply not visible.

                        There is no UVZ in this video near the plane, so there is only one option - from already running engines.

                        Quote: timokhin-aa
                        Twice the difference.

                        If you do not manipulate statistics, drawing conclusions based on one particular year, then this is not true, far from it.
          3. 0
            April 18 2024 08: 45
            But I will disappoint you, the B-52 is the only strike aircraft in the world on which such a problem is solved - when an ICBM launch on US territory is detected, the SAC manages to scramble several dozen, and maybe more than a hundred bombers, faster than the air bases are hit by a missile strike. With tankers

            The record is 330 cars. But this does not take into account SSBN strikes. And within six months we were learning to destroy enemy vehicles at a refueling point over the ocean. So a minimum of warheads were spent on scaring. And then the B-52s were forced to follow the jump to Greenland or Great Britain, where they were confidently destroyed.
            And the suicide bombers had to go through the North without refueling. One way ticket unless intercepted.
            Well, don’t blame FB-111 and B-1, they also knew how to do this.
  20. 0
    April 17 2024 09: 11
    Nobody knows what the bomber of the future should look like, and right now it's a questionable investment.

    Should you rely on stealth to penetrate enemy air defenses like the B21? Or are suborbital drops to destroy key enemy components a completely new operational concept?
  21. -3
    April 17 2024 09: 28
    I continue.
    Taking off from a platform (of course returnable) provides us with maximum range of action. The next question is the flight to the combat area. Here, everything seems to be clear: cruising mode is the flight with the best efficiency indicators.
    But no! There are time parameters for completing a combat mission. And most likely, efficiency dominates over fuel economy, although it implies careful consumption. Therefore, the flight must take place at the highest possible altitude, where non-afterburning supersonic flight is possible. Accordingly, the proper engine mode and optimal airframe for such a flight must be provided.
    Upon arrival at the combat mission area, depending on the designated target and weapon, a tactic of use is selected, and implementation may require overcoming the air defense zone in terrain-following mode. Accordingly, the airframe and engine mode must adopt a new configuration to complete the task. Next - the use of weapons and withdrawal from the air defense area. This may require all your agility, which means flying supersonic in afterburner mode.
  22. +4
    April 17 2024 09: 48
    Quote: Dozorny severa
    Even worse is Tupolev, the noble fosterling - who brought a huge amount of harm to the country - the dead-end concept of the Tu-104, the deception of the production of the TU-22m2, the attempt to shove the Tu-144 into military pilots and sailors.
    It’s a shame that the Tupolevs weren’t shot in 1940,

    You read something like this and wonder: how much feces can be stuck in one head. (Unfortunately, there are quite a lot of such heads.)
    1. 0
      April 17 2024 17: 53
      In general, most of the facts indicated in the post are contained in the book of the Commander-in-Chief of the USSR DA, General Reshetnikov, “What happened, happened,” a combat pilot who went from a simple pilot to the DA commander. Therefore, the answer to the question of who has a toilet instead of a head is beyond doubt.
  23. -2
    April 17 2024 09: 54
    That's it, we got away from possible persecution. Shilka and Nerchinsk are not scary now! Let's go home or to the spare room. Where the commander should be - ahead on a dashing horse! But there is little fuel left. So it optimizes the flight due to the airframe and engine mode. Who is our champion in such flights? That's right, U-2!
    So the wings are at minimum sweep, the altitude is stratosphere and we are crawling at subsonic levels. Happy landing!
    And what did we get about the aircraft?
    Multi-mode, variable geometry with engines optimized for non-afterburning supersonic flight, but capable of maximum boost. But subsonic flight can also be carried out on special economical engines; we retract, like landing gear, with the main ones turned off.
    Now about mass production and the possibility of release in wartime. Of course, all aircraft factories will be exposed to the enemy and will not be able to produce bombers as in peacetime. But assembly from blanks is quite possible. So you shouldn’t take the path of simplification.
    I did not write anything about the armament and combat use of the strategic bomber’s weapons, as well as its promising area of ​​combat use. I suggest that the author independently think through the role of strategic aviation in the upcoming conflict in the Pacific Ocean. And do not limit yourself to established types of weapons. Our allies are China and a united Korea. Opponents of AUKUS and those who have joined them are Canada, the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam and Indonesia. Well, heaps of France and New Zealand. Everything will immediately fall into place.
    1. +4
      April 17 2024 10: 31
      Quote: Victor Leningradets
      Our allies are China and a united Korea.

      United Korea???
      Md wassat laughing fellow
      1. -3
        April 17 2024 10: 37
        Otherwise - khan!
        The comment is short but succinct.
  24. -1
    April 17 2024 09: 58
    I wasted my time reading it. I will spend even more time on all the “facts” of the author on which he compiled the article. In general, a dummy.
    1. -2
      April 17 2024 10: 05
      And yet I can’t resist pointing out one big mistake. laughing . We still produce TU160M2. We have restored the titanium beam welding technology - the basis of the machine body. And we are already assembling Swans from scratch. The rest is from the evil one. hi
  25. PPD
    +1
    April 17 2024 10: 08
    An article from the series - why do we need air defense when Grandma Nyura shoots down drones with a jar of cucumbers.
    Give me the cans! wassat
    Now my friend has taken up aviation.
    1. +1
      April 17 2024 15: 48
      But at the same time, due to your undeveloped brain and zero knowledge on the issue under discussion, you have nothing to object to on the merits, right?
  26. 0
    April 17 2024 10: 10
    Life is structured in such a way that tasks and conditions for their implementation are constantly changing.
    Undoubtedly, almost any aircraft of the required payload capacity is suitable for launching long- and medium-range missiles, it just needs to be slightly “finished with a file.” In the context of the actual collapse/semi-collapse of the aviation industry, the option of “militarizing” a civilian passenger aircraft looks good. The benefits here are obvious, and we will improve civil aviation, save money, and resolve some issues regarding air missile carriers.
    (private opinion of a sofa expert)
  27. 0
    April 17 2024 11: 39
    What if we don’t reinvent the wheel (airplane)? We take the IL-76, dismantle the ramp, roll in the missile and/or bomb-throwing module, the rear part of which will be the ramp plug, and launch/drop through it using appropriate mechanization. All!
    Advantages:
    1. No costs for aircraft development.
    2. Invisibility - in the sense that it is easy to get lost in the crowd..
    3. Reloading speed - rolled out the module/rolled in the module (prepared in advance).
    4. Flexibility - new rocket - just a new module.
    5. Quick conversion of the carrier in one direction or the other.
    The disadvantage is that you have to forget about the breakthrough; only the rocket breaks through.
    This is how a greedy but cunning engineer sees the situation...
    1. -1
      April 17 2024 15: 47
      And that’s essentially what I wrote. Only the fuselage was completely changed.
      1. 0
        April 19 2024 10: 34
        Changing the entire fuselage means developing a new aircraft, with all its incoming and outgoing components. Giving a finished aircraft new functions is a completely different matter.
  28. 0
    April 17 2024 11: 53
    Ekranoplan. Talk about it in light of the theme of the article.
    1. -1
      April 17 2024 13: 08
      A very correct observation for operations over the Arctic Ocean. This flight mode is both secretive and economical.
    2. 0
      April 17 2024 14: 02
      And what is it for, this ekranoplan?
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 18: 42
        For the same thing as your Stratoliner/Stratobomber, Alexander!
        Without entering the air defense zone, pour out a bunch of missiles with a flight mission. Only it has less fuel consumption and a greater chance of survival.
        What will you do over the ocean, Alexander?
        1. 0
          April 17 2024 23: 51
          The ekranoplan cannot do any of this

          https://topwar.ru/169792-nemnogo-o-jekranoplanah-ili-pochemu-oni-ne-nuzhny-ni-flotu-ni-vs-v-celom-voobsche.html
  29. +1
    April 17 2024 12: 14
    Thanks for the interesting article, Author!
    In general, I have skepticism about these monstrous aircraft - very expensive, very flawless, very vulnerable when parked and in flight. The strategist is, one might say, a doomsday plane or a “finisher”, otherwise, as the author noted, it is a stupid “rocket carrier” and the capabilities of the Tu-95 are sufficient for it. However, for the “doomsday”, the capabilities of the Tu-95 will be absolutely insufficient - with its speed and frenzy, it is unlikely to be useful in a retaliatory or retaliatory strike; in the first strike, it will simply be smashed en masse at airfields, because this is a massive aircraft, noticeable and inhibitory. In principle, the stability of the aviation part of the triad on “doomsday” is the weakest, unless we are the ones who start this doomsday. But in this case, it is also the most flawed, because the departure of tens or hundreds of aircraft from bases and their arrival at launch areas is a large time lag and this cannot be done covertly enough or sufficiently in advance, as is possible with SSBNs or PGRKs.

    Even if the “strategist” is a good, suitable “stealth”, its basing is practically impossible to hide from satellites and a large-scale departure will also be noticeable. A confident takeoff in the event of an attack will be only for a small part of the products, especially since the “stealth” will be piecemeal (in our case), its operation will require modernization of the infrastructure at the airfields and these will be airfields known to the enemy.

    Based on this, the air component in general should cause fierce skepticism as an area of ​​investment for the “doomsday”.
    However, yes, the SVO shows that a “bomb carrier” is needed and a “rocket carrier” is also needed. I generally agree with the author’s arguments regarding the “rocket carrier”, but I would transfer the functions of the bomb carrier to a stealth UAV of the size of the “Okhotnik”, initially designed to carry 1 FAB3000 or 2 FAB1500 (for example) with a UMPC (if the UMPC is in principle possible for the FAB3000) . The loading characteristics for the "Okhotnik" approximately coincide with the characteristics of the FAB3000, despite the fact that this UAV was designed for slightly different tasks and its optimality for a "bomb carrier" is low. I point out that in somewhat smaller dimensions (than the Hunter) you can build a high-quality stealth bomb carrier, designed around a bomb bay with a line of FABs, with an emphasis on stealth qualities, manufacturability, and budget. And it is with these products that they carry out the tasks of a “bomb carrier” within real conflicts.
    The problem of a "capital ship" making it a "golden duck" is a long-standing problem. This way you can avoid it.
    Finally, I note that not long ago the PRC announced the creation of an ultra-long-range surface-to-air missile with a range of almost 1000 km. Our adversaries will develop similar means - and the survival of the air component of the strategic nuclear forces or simply the airborne large force will be increasingly in question in serious conflicts.
    1. +1
      April 17 2024 15: 46
      Finally, I note that not long ago the PRC announced the creation of an ultra-long-range surface-to-air missile with a range of almost 1000 km. Our adversaries will develop similar means - and the survival of the air component of the strategic nuclear forces or simply the airborne large force will be increasingly in question in serious conflicts.


      Making such a missile is not a problem at all, but how will it be launched to the target? This is an almost unsolvable problem.

      And for the big guy, the simple task is to urgently, in less than a day, carry out a massive bomb attack somewhere in Africa.
      The enemy has no air defense and no aviation. The length of the round trip route is 16000 km. AND?
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 15: 55
        Since the missile is inevitably large, this will make it possible to place modern sensors and AI elements on it, and use this to target the target and reject decoy defenses. A strategist-type target definitely does not fly at hypersonic speed and is quite massive in size for super-maneuverability. Therefore, such an intercepting missile does not require exceptional speed qualities - which allows the use of various hybrid guidance solutions. I'm not saying that this is a suitable scheme, I just see options, let's put it that way.

        He did not deny the role of the big man in operations against weaker states, but the thesis about the usefulness of the big man on the “day of judgment” is already beginning to seem doubtful to me.
      2. -1
        April 17 2024 18: 47
        In vain, Alexander!
        It is these missiles that are the armament of a strategic bomber in operations over the ocean. With external target designation, it destroys particularly important targets through near space. Group ones can be destroyed by Special Warheads.
        The Tu-160 had just such functions.
        I don’t idealize the Tu-160, but its concept (as well as the B-1 concept, by the way) contains a lot that can be implemented today.
  30. 0
    April 17 2024 12: 37
    What should the strategic bomber of the near future be like?

    None
    The article does a good job of describing the development of strategic bombers, but the conclusions drawn are incorrect.

    Strategic bombers appeared as the only means in the 50s of the last century to deliver nuclear weapons.
    Question: what does a strategic bomber with a missile launcher (let’s not consider free-falling nuclear bombs for our strategists, due to obvious strangeness) do better now than an ICBM missile from an underground launcher/PGRK/submarine? It's nothing.
    The advantages begin with hypothetical capabilities: retargeting (if such a possibility exists - and who will make such a decision), “delayed strike”, the ability to be used for non-nuclear missions and survivability (if the strategist took off before the strike on the base).
    For targets with known coordinates, a strategic bomber at a strategic range currently has no obvious advantages over ICBMs.

    A version of a “penetrating bomber” capable of penetrating into zones protected by air defense and independently searching for and destroying targets there - PAK YES - this is the Armata, which did not even fly at the parade.

    When “yesterday” you need drones, AWACS aircraft, patrol aircraft/anti-aircraft aircraft (and just transport and passenger aircraft), and the same Su30, Su34 and Su57 - making a new strategic bomber is like “making Poseidon”, IMHO, if you use the classification M. Klimova.

    The economy will not be the most efficient for a long time, and the processes of deindustrialization, which slowed down after the start of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, will be accelerated again after its end - there are too many forces interested in this, both within the country and outside it.
    So what new strategic bomber? The USA and China - those who do not have such problems, can afford it.
    And if you really want to have nuclear weapons on an ALCM, IMHO you can adapt the X55/X555 to the Su30 or Su34. And finally, do something more than 21 Il78 for refueling.
    1. +3
      April 17 2024 14: 02
      The advantages begin with hypothetical capabilities: retargeting (if such a possibility exists - and who will make such a decision), “delayed strike”, the ability to be used for non-nuclear missions and survivability (if the strategist took off before the strike on the base).


      And also a strike on a target with exact coordinates not known, and also the possibility of ensuring a guaranteed retaliatory strike through air duty over one’s territory, and also use for reconnaissance over the World Ocean in peacetime, and also tasks in local wars like Syria - and oops, It turns out that a plane is needed.
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 15: 40
        I completely agree that it would be nice to have a strategic bomber. But the function of nuclear deterrence is also carried out by other strategic nuclear forces.

        I don’t know whether it’s you or Timokhin, but there was a series of articles signed by you about problems with ASW/patrol aircraft (we won’t talk about Lamprey), and the unsolvable ASW problem is a direct threat to SSBNs. We won’t talk about covering the deployment of our SSBNs from the air either.
        We have a huge problem with AWACS/EW/EW.
        We need to solve the problems of transport aviation, including in-flight refueling. And civil aviation requires aircraft.
        You know all this better than me.

        This is not a choice between good and great; it, unfortunately, must be a choice in a situation of resource scarcity.
        Although, it is quite possible that PAK-DA will be put into production.

        and also tasks in local wars like Syria - and oops
        - this, sorry, is a very bad argument.
      2. 0
        April 17 2024 18: 50
        Bravo!
        And this is also a weapon that has a chance to remain after the nuclear debut. So the further middlegame and endgame are just strategic bombers.
  31. -2
    April 17 2024 13: 09
    Mega long, mega crazy. The author has an idefix or some kind of manic desire about bombs and strategists. Moreover, during periods of enlightenment, quite adequate text is inserted, but very little is visible.
  32. -1
    April 17 2024 14: 08
    The author forgot that in a global war no one can cancel:
    1. Interception of missile carriers by enemy fighters (or air defense missiles)
    2. The fastest possible access to missile launch lines.
    3. Avoiding fighters after an attack
    4. Time spent completing a combat mission.
    All this requires supersonic sound. And not only. So the IL-96 will not help...
    1. -1
      April 17 2024 15: 41
      All this requires supersonic sound.


      I will disappoint you. For the Tu-160, separation from interceptors due to speed will mean the inability to return to the airfield. There won't be enough fuel.
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 18: 57
        Hurry up with your answer, Alexander.
        After takeoff (and who said that we won’t cover nearby interceptors at the same time as the main target), we can fly on economical dual-circuit engines with a total thrust of 7 - 10 tons. The vehicle is light, the combat load is only anti-missiles and decoys, fuel is 15-20%, the wings are at minimum sweep, and they were able to fly home at 0,8 M. These engines can be extended and retracted like a landing gear. Just before landing, we’ll turn on the main ones, remove these, and sit down. Yes, and refueling with cover over your territory can be organized.
      2. 0
        April 17 2024 19: 39
        I will disappoint you too. The separation takes place at a distance of 300-400 km, that’s all. For fighters, the range of action does not allow it. After liftoff, return to 900 km/h. Learn materiel!
        1. -1
          April 17 2024 23: 54
          The separation takes place at a distance of 300-400 km, that’s all.


          Your disappointment has not grown.
          Will the fighter hang in the air during takeoff?

          Teach materiel!


          Do you know the supersonic flight range of the Tu-160, “teacher”?
          Your 300-400 km will just consume fuel for return.
          Calculate your theories on the calculator before hitting the buttons
          1. 0
            April 20 2024 13: 56
            Quote: timokhin-aa
            Do you know the supersonic flight range of the Tu-160, “teacher”?
            Your 300-400 km will just consume fuel for return.

            Yes, you need non-afterburning supersonic sound, otherwise there is little benefit from it.
  33. -2
    April 17 2024 14: 26
    The times when it was enough to “borrow” a design from “partners” have sunk into the past.
    The current Russian Federation does not have the opportunity to create a modern bomber: no equipment, no technology, no materials, no personnel. The scratch-to-scratch method does not work.
    We will use the obsolete Tu-160, which has an ESR like a flying cowshed, and nothing more.
  34. +1
    April 17 2024 15: 18
    A frankly harmful article with the wrong message. I just want to ask Alexander Timokhin where you are going to recruit pilots for cheap, easily destroyed bombers.
    I was frankly delighted by the following:
    Theoretically, in a global war, stealth will allow you to gain time over your territory - the Japanese, according to them, see our Tu-95s immediately upon takeoff from Ukrainka, a hypothetical stealth bomber will be detected much later.

    But if we don't fly close to Japan and attack it from a safe distance, then what difference does it make?

    Let me explain to the author what the difference is, airborne strategic nuclear weapons are the most vulnerable to enemy strikes and if they are detected immediately after takeoff, without super-sound stealth and other things, then they will be destroyed with a 99% probability before approaching the take-off point, that’s all....
    For conventional bombing, the concept proposed by the author is also inapplicable.

    That is why all countries strive to make an expensive strategist and not rivet a lot of cheap and useless ones
    1. -1
      April 17 2024 15: 40
      Let me explain to the author what the difference is, airborne strategic nuclear weapons are the most vulnerable to enemy strikes and if they are detected immediately after takeoff, without super-sound stealth and other things, then they will be destroyed with a 99% probability before approaching the take-off point, that’s all....


      And how will Japan destroy a bomber over Birobidzhan, for example?
      1. -2
        April 17 2024 15: 41
        And how will Japan destroy a bomber over Birobidzhan, for example?

        It’s easy, Japan alone will not fight against the Russian Federation, but NATO has enough means of destruction. Even if Ukraine worked on strategic airfields without any problems...
        So your transport workers will not reach the launch line, they will not be allowed... To fire expensive missiles at the enemy from focal air defenses like Ukraine, it’s cheaper to build a stealth missile according to the B-2, B-21 variant and practice it with free-fall
        1. 0
          April 17 2024 19: 34
          How will NATO destroy a bomber over Birobidzhan?
          1. -1
            April 17 2024 19: 54
            How will NATO destroy a bomber over Birobidzhan?

            A banal interception, I don’t think that the IL-76 or its analogue will survive long under such conditions
            1. 0
              April 17 2024 20: 19
              Interception with what? F-35 flying over Khabarovsk?
        2. -1
          April 17 2024 23: 56
          It’s easy, Japan alone will not fight against the Russian Federation,


          Are you ready to put the lives of your children as collateral for this?

          but NATO has enough means of destruction.


          In Ukrainka? Have you ever seen a map of Russia?

          Even if Ukraine worked on strategic airfields without any problems...


          But we are talking about destruction in the air.

          Truly, one must be allowed on the Internet with a passport and a certificate from a psychiatrist, through an intelligence test.
          1. -1
            April 18 2024 15: 40
            Are you ready to put the lives of your children as collateral for this?

            And excuse me, I didn’t immediately understand that I was dealing with a Hurray-witness, the destruction of the non-intervention of the northern alliance in a military conflict with one of its members.... I don’t even have words here, because either preschoolers or primary school usually talk about a war exclusively against Japan without NATO intervention school. Although after two years of SVO I think even they don’t talk about such nonsense
            In Ukrainka? Have you ever seen a map of Russia?

            I don’t know what you have, dear author in Ukrainka, but I saw the ratio of the air forces of NATO and the Russian Federation, and when the potential enemy has more f35s alone than all the attack and fighter aircraft of the Russian Federation, even the 160 will reach the launch line in a real conflict non-trivial task
            Truly, one must be allowed on the Internet with a passport and a certificate from a psychiatrist, through an intelligence test.

            Dear, you will be the first to overwhelm him with your idiotic ideas
      2. -1
        April 17 2024 19: 01
        And how will Japan destroy a bomber over Birobidzhan, for example?

        In 1976, the probability of covering a pair of KS-135/B-52 over the Atlantic (more to come!) was close to 90%.
        1. 0
          April 20 2024 13: 57
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          In 1976, the probability of covering a pair of KS-135/B-52 over the Atlantic (more to come!) was close to 90%.

          Covering with what?
          1. 0
            April 21 2024 11: 15
            Both launchers of detection systems and launchers of ICBMs with MIRVs were trained. Covering the refueling area with precision ensuring the destruction of the airframe at least KS-135. The B-52 is stronger, it was designed and tested taking into account the effects of the shock wave. Constant training brought the percentage of conditional coverage to 90% with a flight time of 15 minutes.
            1. 0
              April 21 2024 12: 58
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              ICBM with MIRV. Covering the refueling area with an accuracy that ensures the destruction of the airframe at least KS-135.

              This is the first time I've heard about this. I looked, 135 of these KS-800s were produced. To spend an ICBM with MIRVs on each one - wouldn't it be cool? Even if it's even possible.
              1. 0
                April 21 2024 15: 46
                Quite possible.
                There is no point in demolishing KS-135. But a bomber/tanker pair depends on the B-52’s mission, if relevant in importance. I still had to train. It works over the North Atlantic, through the Artic - operations there go on without refueling.
                1. 0
                  April 21 2024 15: 49
                  Quote: Victor Leningradets
                  Quite possible.

                  Where can I read about this? This is the first time I have heard of such a technique - firing ICBMs at aircraft in the air.
                  1. 0
                    April 21 2024 18: 21
                    I have no idea.
                    We just trained throughout the winter and spring of 1976-1977. In the summer I was already on another task.
    2. 0
      April 17 2024 17: 28
      I completely agree...
      In theory, cheap bombers can happen if they are unmanned and we are going to bomb only a banana republic.
    3. 0
      April 17 2024 19: 41
      It is not harmful, rather provoking discussion. Let's argue bully
      1. 0
        April 17 2024 19: 45
        What is there to argue about, but the fleet stepped on the same rake when, instead of normal ships, they decided to switch to the mosquito fleet, they set up the ships, now their hoxls are drowning them for their dear souls, because they can’t even cover themselves. Now we urge you to repeat a similar experience in aviation...
        1. 0
          April 20 2024 13: 58
          Quote: spektr9
          They decided to switch ships to the mosquito fleet, they set up the ships and now they are drowning them for their sweet souls because they can’t even cover themselves

          The cruiser "Moscow" was a mosquito fleet, that's what it is...
  35. -2
    April 17 2024 16: 24
    Strategists have always been superfluous, and with the advent of missiles, they are absolutely unnecessary
  36. 0
    April 17 2024 17: 25
    Why many planes in a nuclear war? The point of supersonic missile carriers is precisely to have time to take off from the central regions of the country before missiles start falling there in the northern regions and to strike, overloading the air defense and missile defense... While the slow plane is flying, it is very large that a thermonuclear ball will simply appear in front of it explosion and they won’t fly anywhere.
    As for non-thermonuclear wars. All these missile carriers, both aircraft and ships, are purely ersatz for overcoming restrictions on missiles with a range of up to 5000 km...
    This means you can make a longer-range missile and not worry about it, not to mention the fact that now all these agreements are going through the roof... As a result, you can deploy tens of thousands of missiles without carriers and not worry about it at all. Why do you need a plane at all?
    Moreover, all aircraft are clearly visible, and the enemy manages to reduce damage from attacks, even from supersonic and even hypersonic missiles. Since the time for an aircraft to take off and reach the launch area is disproportionately longer than the flight time of the rocket. As a result, ground-based launchers with zircons turned out to be the most effective, since they do not give the enemy time to react.
    If we are talking about conventional bombing with large calibers, then many cheap aircraft can take place if the task is to raze a banana republic to the ground. Otherwise, they will be intercepted either by old air defense and fighters, not to mention modern ones, especially since the enemy will know in advance the course of the planes and the fact of their takeoff.
    Accordingly, in such a situation there are 2 ways. Or we fly quickly, cover ourselves high with fighters from enemy aircraft, and drop bombs from a high altitude and speed without entering the enemy’s air defense zone (this is the way of the Tu-22M3M, Tu-160 are pure missile carriers). Or we fly low, in stealth, maximally reducing the detection radius of enemy air defense systems, looking for holes in the enemy’s air defense - this is the path of the conditional Pak Yes or B-2... For such use, you need to completely suppress enemy fighters, because knowing about the fact of departure and their flight path will intercept anything, even conventional instant-21.
  37. 0
    April 17 2024 18: 36
    without ladders, stepladders, lifts, etc.

    Such problems are not solved by redesigning very complex and expensive systems such as engines or the body - after all, this can greatly worsen the performance.
    But you can make it simpler - provide an on-board cartridge that is charged with stepladders and by pressing a lever you can get a ladder from it. Stepladders are standard cheap products, which can even be disposable and it is irrational to edit the entire aircraft structure in order to eliminate the ladder.
  38. +1
    April 17 2024 19: 44
    It’s completely incomprehensible to me why the strategist is so prohibitively expensive. Why should it cost more than a pair of Su-34s? Four engines, a ton of equipment, no special technology required. And he will take away 3-4 times more fabs or missiles. This is the meaning of everything big when the price increases by X and efficiency by 2X. Somehow, magically, the United States of the 50-60s, with a population smaller than the Russian Federation now, with a comparable budget, could build hundreds of strategists and thousands of all kinds of phantoms, not to mention cobras and other little things, and at the same time did not eat only potatoes. And the pilots were there. They fought in Vietnam and flew to the moon. But our rulers are getting everything out of their hands. Besides power, this is what they don’t miss. And regarding civilian sides, they are also not very needed; it is not noticeable that anyone in the government is worried about the deadlines shifting to the right. After all, we probably agreed with Airbus and Boeing that there will be planes and spare parts and we don’t need to produce our own
    1. +1
      April 17 2024 20: 17
      Quote from alexoff
      It’s completely incomprehensible to me why the strategist is so prohibitively expensive. Why should it cost more than a pair of Su-34s?

      The American P-47 Thunderbolt cost $90 thousand, the B-17 Flying Fortress just over $210 thousand, and the star
      B-29 Stratofortress by the end of the war were already over half a million green.
      Further delivery of the Su-34 to the Ministry of Defense was carried out under signed contracts in 2008 worth 33,6 billion rubles for the supply of 32 aircraft
      From Wiki.
      This means a little more than 1 billion per plane, some data from the public press for 2014 confirms the same figures. From the same Wiki, the Tu-160 cost about 2018 billion rubles in 18, somewhere they write about 16 billion per plane.
      The cost of the B1B Lancer is $283-317 million from 1998, and the price of the expensive F22A fighter is $143-339 million......
      1. +1
        April 17 2024 20: 44
        It has long been known that in the USA the two main manufacturers set prices on the principle that the more the better. That this experience was adopted from us is obvious, at least in the shipbuilding program. And on the cars of the bosses. In terms of how much something actually costs in mass production, these figures don’t say much. Il-76 for 3.5 billion were under contract, then they raised it to 5, like the original price was dumping. The Su-34 is no longer worth a billion, I think it’s already about three, like the Su-35. Why would a strategist be much more expensive than the IL-76? Why do they make the Tu-160 so expensive and what is the point of it in general? These are questions for our specialists. They probably look good in a parade, epic.
  39. +1
    April 17 2024 20: 04
    Why does the Tu-160 need supersonic power, a variable-sweep wing, a complex design using titanium alloys, and special fuel to reach supersonic speed?
    In order to reach the launch point on time and alive. Supersonic will allow you to escape (in the sense of avoiding a meeting) from enemy fighters up to the 4th generation inclusive. I don’t know what will happen to aircraft with supersonic cruising.
    If launching the missile launcher remains the only task, then a complex aircraft is not needed.
    Needed. A simple aircraft cannot launch a missile launcher.
    Why do we need the PAK DA with its radar stealth and special modification of special NK-32 engines?
    Reach the launch milestone. Ensure secrecy of application.
    They will still detect the missiles in advance
    Is not a fact. This is the power of cruise missiles.
    But they can’t reach him in the air with anything
    Fighter aircraft still exist.
    and strike aircraft with an intercontinental range will need a lot, hundreds.
    Hundreds are unrealistic. Even a hundred is a lot.
    However, due to the advent of nuclear weapons, the need for numerous strike groups was no longer necessary; now one aircraft often had to go to the target.
    No. There were still a lot of bombers flying. You haven’t solved problems like: “There are 100 bombers flying, including 2 carriers of nuclear weapons, how many planes should be shot down in order to hit both carriers with a 90% probability?”
    Subsequently, the Americans recognized the ability of the B-1A to fly with two “sounds” as meaningless from a tactical point of view, and this aircraft went into production as the B-1B
    They just failed the B-1A. The transonic B-1B with powerful supersonic engines, supersonic aerodynamics and a variable sweep wing is a perversion.
    especially dangerous high-risk missions with unsuppressed air defense will be performed by B-2
    The B-2 was never allowed into battle until the air defense was completely suppressed. Even the old Mig-29 from the times of the USSR saw it.
    The Tu-160 could actually fly at low altitudes
    It is not suitable for low-altitude breakthrough: insufficient resistance to overloads and lack of equipment for automatically following the terrain.
    Despite its high cost and complexity, its only advantage over the Tu-95MS was the number of Kh-101 missiles on board - there are 4 more of them.
    And the chances of reaching the launch line are higher.
    6. Conducting reconnaissance over the World Ocean and territories without air defense, in the absence of a threat from enemy aircraft.
    This is not a bomber's job. Yes, he can fly out to have a look, but no more.
    In general, I would launch the design of a long-range aviation platform and a medium-range aviation platform, allowing the implementation of the following platforms for the Air Force and Navy with the most reasonable unification: strategist, missile carrier (bomber), reconnaissance target designator, AWACS, electronic warfare, repeater, PLO aircraft, flying command post , tanker, rescuer, transporter, perhaps even a loitering interceptor.
    Which of these things can supersonic speed at high altitude help with?
    In order to reach the launch point on time and alive.
    Only for one task - breaking through unsuppressed air defense and reaching a target covered by this air defense, followed by the use of short-range weapons or bombs on it.
    Also to increase the chances of survival and ensure surprise of the launch.
    when using civil technologies, components and engineering solutions
    I’m not sure that civilian components will cope with the tasks of the military.
    must be equipped with an emergency start system for all engines with a pyrostarter
    This thing ruins the engine. It is better to come up with and install means for regular quick starting of engines without external assistance.
    The tail compartment, like the Tu-95, is not needed, nor cannon armament.
    The cannon armament must be left: as a result of the operation of electronic warfare (missiles cannot lock onto a target), this may remain the only defense of the aircraft.
    In general, the lower limit for maximum speed should be considered that of the Tu-95MS.
    In fact, the Tu-95MS is quite fast (850 km/h), which is now the usual speed of passenger aircraft.
    In relation to an aircraft that is a “pure” missile carrier, this means the ability to enter a flight mission into the missile directly in flight.
    This is unrealistic (except for the most primitive cases, when flight mission = target coordinates). You can take on board several pre-prepared options, nothing more.
    No matter how weak the hope of fighting off interceptors in this way may be, the same Tu-160, in principle, does not have such an opportunity.
    Yes: it can travel at supersonic for 40 minutes, and an interceptor for 10, 20 minutes at supersonic and their trajectories will not intersect.
    He can even strike an area where air defense systems are concentrated with a powerful nuclear bomb, clearing the way for a bomber.
    There are rockets, why such difficulties?
    cheaply and massively build intercontinental strike aircraft for future wars
    This is unrealistic for intercontinental strike aircraft. The maximum is a cheaper and larger series at the cost of losing some of the capabilities.
    1. 0
      April 17 2024 21: 44
      Thanks for the smart comment!
      Best regards, hi
    2. -1
      April 18 2024 00: 06
      In order to reach the launch point on time and alive. Supersonic will allow you to escape (in the sense of avoiding a meeting) from enemy fighters up to the 4th generation inclusive.


      Considering how much fuel supersonic requires, it’s more likely no than yes.

      Needed. A simple aircraft cannot launch a missile launcher.


      With a missile range of 3-5 thousand km, what can stop it?

      This is not a bomber's job. Yes, he can fly out to see, but no more


      Well, practice is a little against you. They fly for reconnaissance, find the enemy there, and take photographs. There are plenty of photos and videos, from the same Americans.

      In general, I would launch the design of a long-range aviation platform and a medium-range aviation platform, allowing the implementation of the following platforms for the Air Force and Navy with the most reasonable unification: strategist, missile carrier (bomber), reconnaissance target designator, AWACS, electronic warfare, repeater, PLO aircraft, flying command post , gas station attendant,


      Well, that’s not the platform in the article, is it? She, my dear, is it. In its purest form. Re-read more carefully.

      This is unrealistic (except for the most primitive cases, when flight mission = target coordinates).


      Target coordinates + launch point coordinates + automatic route calculation + elevation map. Home computer level task.

      Yes: it can go at supersonic speed for 40 minutes


      Where will it fly then, after 40 minutes at supersonic speed?

      There are rockets, why such difficulties?


      The article says why.

      This is unrealistic for intercontinental strike aircraft.


      The proposed bomber will cost the same as a pair of IL-76
      1. 0
        April 18 2024 20: 42
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Considering how much fuel supersonic requires, it’s more likely no than yes.
        Even if there is a fuel shortage, it will refuel from a tanker or land on the way back to the jump airfield. Any option is better than meeting with fighters.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        With a missile range of 3-5 thousand km, what can stop it?
        The avionics for launching the CD will make the aircraft difficult.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Well, that’s not the platform in the article, is it? She, my dear, is it. In its purest form. Re-read more carefully.
        So, I agree with you, I only suggest expanding the range of products: we don’t have enough of everything right now.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Target coordinates + launch point coordinates + automatic route calculation + elevation map. Home computer level task.
        A bunch of photographic materials and several days of work by officers for one launch. There will be no details, sorry.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        Where will it fly then, after 40 minutes at supersonic speed?
        To the launch point.
        Quote: timokhin-aa
        The proposed bomber will cost the same as a pair of IL-76
        No. Bomber avionics are expensive and becoming more and more expensive. On the Su-24, the sighting and navigation system accounted for 1/3 of the price of the aircraft. The strategist, I think, has much more. And you can't save money on it.
  40. 0
    April 17 2024 23: 58
    . Which of these things can supersonic speed at high altitude help with?

    Escape from interceptors.
  41. +3
    April 18 2024 07: 41
    Quote: Alexander Timokhin
    and in the USSR - the medium-range missile carrier (“pure missile carrier”, not capable of carrying bombs) “100” of the Sukhoi Design Bureau.

    It is not.



    Quote: Alexander Timokhin
    The development of intercontinental strike aircraft has stopped.

    There were projects, but they took a long time to harness.

    Quote: Alexander Timokhin
    In the class of long-range bombers, Tupolev actually managed to trick the new Tu-22M aircraft under the guise of modernizing the Tu-22 that was already in service.

    The Tu-22 (aircraft 105) was initially an ersatz, the same decree provided for the creation of a full-fledged aircraft that would satisfy the TTT - product 106, which, after changing the concept of application, became product 145, the modification of the design of which ultimately led to that very product 45.
  42. -2
    April 18 2024 09: 07
    The right topic has been raised, important, timely!

    Practical examples and thoughts for them.

    Let’s say that reconnaissance means have spotted a large naval group of enemy ships that is not standing still, and if you don’t strike it quickly, it may simply disappear and you will have to look for it again, and it will be able to complete the combat mission assigned to it, go to the desired area and launch cruise missiles, or unload at the desired port, or raise ship-based aircraft, the range of which will already allow them to carry out combat missions.
    Attacking detected ships with ballistic or cruise missiles, surface-to-ship or ship-to-ship, will not always be possible due to its distance from the areas where such weapons are located. In this case, to strike the identified ships, it is advisable to select the TU-160, on which a powerful radar should be installed, with the help of which it will detect ships, the time of its approach to the target will be minimal, in this situation, high supersonic speed may be needed.
    Supersonic strategic bombers are needed to quickly reach areas of, say, the world's oceans, and from their territory, outside the enemy's air defense zone, long-range V-Z missiles can also strike low-speed TU-95s.
    What is generally needed, as many users correctly write, that new approaches are needed. Probably this approach could be the creation of strategic bombers capable of going into near space and being on duty in low orbits for a long time, but this is the future.

    We need a universal flying platform (?!?! and then Ostap got carried away), which can be converted with minimal time to launch missiles, drop bombs, install radars, i.e. conducting reconnaissance and possibly even for transporting and landing troops...

    A small digression, by the way, the TU-16 was a good car, it could fly at a speed of 1000 km/h, it can be used as an AWACS aircraft, I hope we can at least restore their production. In general, you don’t need to chase only the new, with which not everything goes well, you need to remember the old and modernize it, but don’t get carried away with modernization, more practical realism..

    By the way, why not use the TU-160 to drop bombs from the UMPC; one such aircraft will replace an entire squadron of SU-17 or MIG-27 fighter bombers, thoughtlessly eliminated by military reformers and optimizers.
    The ceiling of the TU-160 is 15 km, the number M = 2, if the UMPC is also equipped with a jet accelerator, then the enemy will not find it enough, our assault units will simply enter an area that will be bombed by a couple of such aircraft, and if it is a link... .
    There is another interesting point, I haven’t come across any videos of our aviation using the S-24 and S-25 NURS?! The NURS S-8 and S-10 are mainly used. Perhaps I am not aware of this or missed something. The S-24 is not inferior in power to the OFAB-250-270, and the S-25 is already the FAB-500, besides, they already have a jet accelerator installed, all that remains is to attach them to the UMPC NURSs and off they go. Why not adapt the TU-160 bomb bays to these ammunitions.
    Ears, don't touch your ears!
  43. 0
    April 18 2024 12: 13
    I basically agree with the bomber jacket. a small correction on the superjet, strictly speaking, it is not produced by KNAAZ (the parts are made there), but by a plant that used to be called “Sukhoi civil aircraft”, now I don’t remember the exact name, but it definitely has Yakovlev’s word there, although it produces the Sukhoi aircraft. well, a bomber needs a missile carrier that is durable, reliable and capable of staying in the air for a long time, and let the missiles overcome the air defense zone, not him
  44. +1
    April 18 2024 16: 41
    Before outlining the contours of the bomber of the future, it is necessary to decide what tasks it will perform and under what conditions.

    The military has always had a bad time with this.
  45. 0
    April 18 2024 20: 54
    My deep couch opinion.
    1. The author is preparing for past wars. And this is of no use
    Simply because UAVs will soon not be from Ali Express, but large ones like the Tu 160 and there will be no pilots in it. Because the pilots are the weakest part in it. And these huge UAVs will be able to throw bombs and launch missiles. Therefore, it is now necessary to develop a huge UAV instead of the Tu 160 and Tu 95 and Pak DA.

    2. TODAY.
    All Tu 22M should be put through the KVR and, at most, unified with the Tu 160. Let them serve until they are replaced by strategic UAVs.

    3. You can save a lot.
    Minor modification of civil aircraft. For example, an entire aircraft factory sits and does nothing. It is necessary to resume production of .........TU 154 and convert them to missile weapons. It is clear that the design will need to be greatly modernized. But this can be done gradually from series to series. There are many of these that can be done inexpensively. Ideally, of course, make a missile carrier bomber based on the Yak 242 (MS 21). Then unification, low price, a huge staff of reservist pilots)))
  46. 0
    April 21 2024 06: 33
    Was it worth writing so much for the sake of a rather simple conclusion - you need to build a Dishman pepelats from gomn and sticks in the thousands in order to bomb everyone with bombs! It won’t work, you’re not in the USSR, capitalism won’t let you get something for nothing, but for now we need to build what we actually have so far, and quite well, and we can adapt existing means for bombs, and it’s easier than using an Il-96 bomber fence!
  47. 0
    April 21 2024 16: 39
    In general, the plane described by the author exists. This is Su 24. Why so many words?
    Tu-95 is not enough, add IL-76.
    The author is right about one thing. There should be thousands of such aircraft and they should be based at field or temporary airfields. Well, each one needs to be equipped with from two (SU-24) to 16 cruise missiles (Tu-95, IL-76.).
  48. +1
    April 23 2024 07: 10
    Timokhin again... No matter what he takes on, the result is approximately the same. The recognizable style is a kind of chaotic and unsystematic narration, coupled with a separation from reality, characteristic of not entirely mentally healthy people. First aircraft carriers, and now strategic bombers. He should be bashfully silent after the previous nonsense has been debunked, but he writes articles as if nothing had happened.
    In fact, no “strategists” are needed in Ukraine. Like the entire fleet. We need front-line aviation, drilling aircraft, drones of all classes and ground-based missile launchers. The same is true for any other war not too far from our borders, including a hypothetical war with NATO on the European theater. The range of modern cruise missiles (over 5000 km) makes any carriers other than minimal land launch vehicles simply unnecessary. And it is difficult to throw the same missiles at a more or less serious and equipped enemy even from tactical aircraft, let alone vulnerable “strategists”. All these Tu-95,22,160, etc. Now they are taking off for one single reason - critical errors in military planning, which left the entire armed forces without land-based missile launchers.
    For a global nuclear war the same is true - ICBMs and the same long-range missiles are sufficient. All strategic aviation will be destroyed in the first tens of minutes, along with air bases. The ability to “retarget in flight” is not an advantage, but a disadvantage caused by too long (compared to ICBMs) flight time. The ability of any non-stealthy bomber to fly anywhere in a war with NATO is purely hypothetical.
    In fact, now long-range bombers are just a “long arm” in medium-intensity conflicts. A weapon capable of striking, for example, Syria, and (in the future) threatening the enemy fleet. Is stealth an advantage in these missions? Perhaps yes. The detection range of aircraft such as a civil airliner can reach thousands of kilometers using over-the-horizon radars or space-based tracking devices. So a meeting with fighters can be organized even beyond the range of the cr. The ability to get not thousands, but at least hundreds of kilometers to an adversary without being detected is the only quality now required from a bomber. So it’s not in vain that we, the Americans and the Chinese settled on the concept of a subsonic stealth bomber, a cheaper B-2
  49. 0
    April 23 2024 07: 25
    The average person is unaware, but the Tu-95MS is more important than the Tu-160; if it were necessary to reduce aircraft for the sake of economy, then it would be the 160s that would have to be taken out of service.
    Oh, this is a masterpiece from not a layman, but from a professional expert! First, they foamed at the mouth to prove that strategic aviation was not needed at all, then that the Tu-160 was very expensive, then that only the Tu-160 would not even have time to take off in the event of a nuclear war (Tu-95 and B-52 would apparently have time), and now there it is! What a twist! laughing
    1. 0
      April 26 2024 22: 55
      At first, they foamed at the mouth to prove that strategic aviation was not needed at all


      The voices in your crazy head are lying to you, I never said that, you stubborn miracle.
  50. 0
    April 23 2024 16: 22
    (melancholic) Rapid Dragon.
  51. 0
    April 23 2024 23: 46
    The aator should definitely be appointed President - he, like Mr. Skomorozov, knows how to solve any problem. I couldn’t finish reading such an abundance of letters, essentially about nothing.
    But in fact, we don’t know where and with whom else we will have to fight after 404 (or simultaneously with the Northern Military District), we can only guess. And there supersonic and other cute things can come in handy.
    In fact, the theme is a spherical horse in a vacuum. Now every aircraft counts, including the Tu-160, Tu-22M3 and Tu-95.
    Under current conditions, even simpler and cheaper aircraft, such as the Su-57, will never reach full production.
    New strategists can now only be born in the dreams of designers. No one will invest in their creation now. You probably have no idea how difficult and expensive it is to create such a machine and bring it to series.
    Therefore, in the near future they will limit themselves to modernizing and extending the service life of the existing fleet. At best, they will occasionally produce custom Tu-22M3M and Tu-160M. The Tu-95MS has long been out of production and cannot be restored.
    And this situation is not only with us. The Americans are extending the service life of the B-52 to 100 years.
    1. 0
      April 26 2024 22: 56
      I couldn’t finish reading such an abundance of letters


      What kind of fashion has this become - to brag about one’s own inferiority?
      1. 0
        April 27 2024 16: 13
        Isn’t aggressive accusing others of inferiority a manifestation of one’s own inferiority?
        For some reason, only the reproach of “multiple books” caught my attention, the rest did not cause a reaction...
        So the bombing was successful?