“Armata” and Su-57 in Indian style: we must be friends with Russia!

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“Armata” and Su-57 in Indian style: we must be friends with Russia!

India in general can serve as an example of how not to do things in the style of “Your own means the best in the world.” By acting in this way, you can generally go far and fail, for example, to modernize “your” Su-30MKI aircraft, which we have already written about.

But the Indian Air Force has its own “unparalleled in the world” fighter “Tejas”, we will save it for dessert, since this flying circus with horses deserves a separate story, as an epic.



And yet, an airplane is a very complex mechanism, and creating it is not as easy as a tank or a machine gun. Although there are big problems with this in India. I mean, with machine guns and tanks.

In general, technology of the highest order is given to Indians with enormous problems. Yes, they really want to do everything themselves and not depend on anyone. This is a very correct approach on the one hand, but on the other...


Epic of the machine gun


Well, what about automatic? Or an assault rifle? There is the Russian Kalashnikov, there is the American M-15/M-16, there is the Belgian FN. Choose, buy, produce.

No, it's too simple. We need to find our way, like the Mandalorians, and what it will be is the third question.

Until a certain point, the Indian army was armed with Belgian products, with which there were no problems. But no one had any particular problems with the Belgian rifles, and we are silent about those who were armed with AKs, because the problems were exclusively with the opponents.

And so the Indian military decided that it was a bloody nose, but they needed their own. Such that at the parade the blood from the eyes from patriotism and in battle would sweep away the enemy with a steel broom.


But just taking it and starting to produce under license is not curry, so we decided to do this: take several samples from world leaders and, based on them, build something of our own. No sooner said than done, they took samples and started sculpting.

Already what was taken should have caused bewilderment:
- Kalashnikov assault rifle. It’s clear here: reliability, manufacturability, price;
- Israeli "Galil". This is not entirely clear, because the Galil was made on the basis of the Finnish Valmet Rk 62 assault rifle, which in turn was a licensed copy of the AK;
- British L1A1. Well, everything is strange here, apparently. historical the orientation toward the British masters had no other effect. But since the L1A1 itself was based on the now classic FN FAL,

In general, all this stuff was thrown into one heap and they started dancing fiery Indian dances and songs around. And they danced not a lot, not a little, but for 17 whole years. This is exactly how much time has passed since the first sample, named INSAS, was released in the mid-80s of the last century at the state arsenal of the Indian State Ordnance Factory Board.


17 years doesn’t seem to be very fast, but the Indian mentality apparently played a role here. They’re generally not very hasty guys. What’s the point of rushing somewhere headlong if there are still countless rebirths ahead? Karma is not an easy thing to understand, but the wheel of Samsara turns, which means that everything goes according to thousand-year-old attitudes.

So 17 years for an Indian is like 17 moments in April. Quickly, but effortlessly, and therefore, after dancing for so many years, in 1998, the Indian Ministry of Defense solemnly (how else?) announced the adoption of the Indian National Small Arms System - the Indian national small arms system weapons.

INSAS simply looked gorgeous at Indian parades; the announcers probably said with admiration that this was the first Indian completely domestic small arms system, which has no analogues in the world. But the issue of rearming its army with domestic weapons was a high priority for the Indian military, so for a whole year India enjoyed the presence of a new modern INSAS rifle in its army.

A whole year... And then another Indo-Pakistani war broke out, called the Kargil war.


And here all the shortcomings of the rifle began to come out, and in such quantities that the Indian army soldiers actually started riots, demanding the return of the Kalashnikov assault rifles.

In general, it is not entirely clear how, taking such beautiful rifles as the AK and FN FAL, it was possible to create such a cruel and unusable one.

Misfire was the bane of INSAS. How this happened, considering that the bolt was copied from an AK, is very difficult to say. But it’s a fact: a comparison with the AK-103 showed that the Russian machine gun misfires 0,02%, while INSAS easily misfired 3%. This means that standard zinc fired 2 rounds of AK ammunition without a single misfire. And the second is the same zinc. And only on the third, somewhere around the 000th shot, could the AK allow itself to misfire. INSAS, according to statistics, detected 2000 out of 60 rounds. That is, there was a misfire for every 33 shots. Almost every store.

Imagine yourself in the shoes of an Indian soldier. How comfortable can you feel in battle, knowing that in every magazine there is a possibility of one cartridge misfiring, which could cost you your life?


So the Indian soldiers in the Kargil war, although won, had the impression that the new weapons were completely unsuitable for combat.

It is not surprising that after dancing around INSAS for another 10 years in attempts to somehow improve the performance of the rifle, in 2010 the Indian Ministry of Defense signed an agreement with Bulgaria on the purchase of locally licensed AKs from the Bulgarians.

Why Bulgarian AKs? Well, everything is simple here: price.

The Bulgarian copy of the AK cost 22 rupees. The Russian AK cost the Indian budget 000 rupees. It’s not that it’s much more expensive, but that’s how the Indians decided, to once again save on at least something. The funny thing is that “our own” INSAS rifle, which did not shoot properly, cost the country’s budget more than 25 rupees.

In 2015, the Ministry of Internal Affairs began urgently re-equipping its battalions of the central reserve police (you understand, an analogue of the Internal Troops of the USSR) from INSAS to AK-103, as patience ran out and the Ministry of Internal Affairs realized that all attempts to make something sane out of INSAS fail.

Well, it went downhill from there, and eventually the military decided in 2016 that the best place for INSAS was in well-guarded warehouses. And in 2018, a license was acquired to produce the AK-203 in India.


And INSAS, in the amount of about a million units, was placed in territorial self-defense warehouses. Where will they extract it from, well, in the worst case scenario, such as general mobilization.

And all that remains is to regret the wasted time and resources, such as the 400 million dollars spent on creating this masterpiece. But now the Indian army will be armed with quite decent weapons, the only drawback of which will be their assembly by Indian hands.


The Epic of the Mutant Tank


It's cooler here. This is not just two decades, this story lasts more than half a century. By the standards of history, of course, not time, but nevertheless. And here it’s not entirely clear what came first, the chicken or the egg, but with the Arjun tank everything turned out exactly the same as with a machine gun, even cooler.

It’s difficult to say what the designers of the “Arjun” wanted as a result, perhaps the relative simplicity of the German “Leopard” (if compared with the same “Leclerc”) and a rifled gun, like the “Challenger”, but clearly “Lego”, bright and cool not it came out. The result was really some kind of creepy hybrid, assembled according to the principle “I made it from what I had.”

This is the case when the state concept “Make in India!”, and this, it must be said, is not just a motto, it is a state program with the allocation of serious funds, if that. And today, fifty years later, the story of “Arjun” looks like such a cut that it’s time to shoot the series “Arjuna” in Bollywood for five hundred episodes or even more, since the tank is still hanging out in the “promising” ones.

Like our "Armata".

But if the T-14 is a really promising tank, then how can a tank that is over fifty be considered such?
After all, work on the design of the Arjuna began in that distant year, when the first T-72s began to be assembled in Nizhny Tagil. But the T-72 today is a honored combat veteran, still relevant on the battlefield to the point of “I can’t”, and “Arjun” is still running in the “promising” category.

Moreover, this perspective is somehow one-sided. On paper, the Arjun destroys all known tanks in the world, including the Russian T-72 and T-90, which are in service with the Indian army. But as soon as another conflict begins in Kashmir or Ladakh, it is the T-90 and T-72 that are dragged to those areas by the tractors.


And in peacetime and at training grounds, according to the Indian military, “Arjun” is the coolest in the world.

In general, it was initially planned to create a conventional MBT, like the British and Soviet tanks then in service with the Indian Army, only, naturally, better in all respects. The design was undertaken by the very famous “Defense Research and Development Organization” (DRDO for short).

The first vehicles were planned to be delivered to the army after 1980, and by the beginning of the 90s, all imported vehicles were to be completely ousted from the Indian tank forces. And by 2000, and in general, the Arjun was supposed to be replaced by some new tank of the next generation...

But DRDO failed in this task. Having failed all plans miserably.

However, everything is not just like that and the fact is that the Indians did not have much to create a tank from. Here is this program “Make in India!” played a very difficult role. On the one hand, the principle “take it or die” must be followed, on the other hand, what if there is nothing to take?

India did not have its own decent production of armor-piercing shells. As well as experience in developing such.
The tank did not have its own powerful and reliable diesel engine.
There was no production of composite armor.
There was no production of tank guns.

And so - everything is fine, go ahead and make a tank for India!

Well, the British helped with the cannon. They really wanted to knock Russia out of the market. They dropped an experimental 110 mm gun from the master's shoulder. The Germans volunteered to help with the engine, transmission and ammunition. And under license from the USSR, they have already begun to produce the B-46 tank engine, which powered the “Indian” Vijayant tanks.

In general, something compact, weighing about 40 tons, began to emerge, but suddenly thunder struck: Pakistan is negotiating the purchase of Abrams from the United States! If this is so, then neighbors with whom relations in life have been more than difficult would receive a huge advantage!

Well, as always in such cases: a cry from above, “Everything needs to be redone urgently!”

Remade. The result was a fierce nightmare weighing 59 tons, with a cruising range of 200 km on 1610 liters of fuel, with an old English 120-mm cannon, with an incomprehensible prospect of movement, since the Indian transport network was frankly not ready to move such a monster.


But everything is very patriotic. Everything is “our own”.

When new information hit that Pakistan was buying T-84U from Ukraine, hysteria flared up with renewed vigor. But to the delight of the tankers, this time the “patriots” lost to the “businessmen” who bought a license for the T-90 from Russia.

In general, if you give an Indian an understanding of what he should do, that is, stupidly produce parts and assemble a tank from them, then he can cope with it quite well. Localization for the same T-72 reached a record 93%, that is, they can.

Yes, a certain number (124 pieces) of “Arjuns” were still produced. It’s not entirely clear why there are so many; more than three dozen would be enough for parades. They say that there is another contract for as many as 118 tanks, each of which costs almost three million dollars, and the entire contract costs a billion. Well, it’s clear that in addition to tanks, a lot of other things still need to be released.

In general, “Arjun”, it seems to me, is simply a means of making money under the brand of patriotic “Make in India”. Because in India they actually made more than 2 T-500s and more than 72 T-1s, and these are tanks more combat-ready than the Arjun. At least, “Arjun” has not participated in a single battle in its 000 years of existence, which cannot be said about Russian tanks, which are used systematically and regularly.

But he, “Arjun,” is Indian and rides in parades very patriotically. Well, just like our Armata. But the T-90s that are better suited for this will go into battle, because they are more reliable and cheaper. Well, really, who in their right mind would send tanks into battle, each of which costs three million dollars?

No, there was actually a chance. In 2019, when the disputed Aksai Chin highland region on the Indian-Chinese “Line of Control” caught fire, the Indian military planned to deploy and use the Arjun there. At the same time, they would test it in battle. But it turned out that the “Arjun” was not suitable for operations in the mountains, it was difficult to get it there, and therefore the same repeatedly tested, proven and reliable T-90S and T-72M1 went to fight (well, then China and India did not fight).


Maybe that's why the Chinese changed their minds?

In general, the “Arjun” turned out to be unable to fight in principle, the “tank of the future” under the latest Indian FMBT program remained on paper, but last year the Indians again announced a large technological tender for the creation of a “tank of the future”: Future Ready Combat Vehicle ( FRCV). This new and stunning creation, which in India is called a “universal tank”, should completely replace the T-72M1... by 2030!!!

Considering that 2024 is in full swing, it becomes clear that our “old men” T-72M1 will not be able to retire from the Indian army. But we will see another one and a half to two hundred exciting series.


Mini-epic about a useless plane


The dance to create this aircraft does not last as long as with the Arjun tank, but no less fiery. Everyone has already understood that we are talking about the Tejas, a multi-role fighter from the “Made in India” program.

A single-engine tailless aircraft, like one written off from the Mirage, today looks like a visitor from the last century against the backdrop of real modern aircraft. They spent as much as one and a half billion dollars on this.

The development of this miracle has been going on since 1983. The first prototype rolled out of the workshop in 1996. They rolled out to thunderous applause, because this aircraft could carry twice as much weapons as the MiG-21, which was frankly outdated at that time.


But the Mig-21 continued to fly and was retired just recently. And Tejas made its first flight only in 2001, that is, five years after its construction.

Considering that the plane also took five years to build, some uncomfortable questions arise. Isn’t it cool to spend five years eliminating shortcomings? Excuse me, in that amount of time you can polish it with a file to a mirror shine, what was even built there?

Well, in 2001, Tejas flew. The question is how. So that the Indians fell at the feet of their friends from Israel and tearfully began to beg to bring this flying misunderstanding to mind. The Israeli specialists condescended (as I understand it - for a handful of dollars) and after another five years three prototypes were already flying.

In March 2012, a contract was signed to supply the Indian Air Force with the first 40 fighters. And already in 2020, just 37 years later, the first Tejas was accepted by the Indian Air Force.

If we remember, it was in 2020 that the unfortunate competition MMRCA, which had been played for several years, finally died in India. On its ruins they decided to hold a tender for the purchase of 114 imported aircraft, so they could not leave the Air Force without aircraft? The tender was not completed because patriotism won again, and they decided to spend $6 billion on purchasing not 114 imported aircraft at 52,6 million apiece (these are not the latest F-16 or Su-30 models, for that matter), but to buy as many as 83 light fighter "Tejas". At $72,2 million apiece. This is already real F-16 Block 70/72, F-15D, Su-30MK and so on. That is, planes that, even if they leave a wet spot behind the Tejas, will not be very large in size.

And while this batch is being built by 2028, Indian designers will be feverishly looking for ways to correct all the shortcomings of the Tejas.

Bollywood has already made a film featuring the plane. It was called “Tejas”, which was the name of the main character. The film turned out to be a masterpiece, grossing $700 against production costs of $000.

It's not much better with an airplane. The eternally promising Indian air-to-surface missiles, just like the Arjun tank, remain in a promising state, and the urgently purchased French AASM-Hammers for some reason refuse to work with Indian guidance systems, although they fly there with Rafales, where they were told to go.

***


In general, dancing, singing, and drinking. When you look at the money that Indian partners spend on entertainment such as creating purely Indian weapons, you realize that there is a lot to learn and envy. But with this patriotic program “Make in India!” they are clearly overkill. Although they are really great in some areas, if you take the same Su-30MKI, it is not for nothing that it costs more than the standard one, they stuffed them with both French and Israeli electronics and somehow made everything work with our units. But the provision for kickbacks is also normal.

All this throwing and shirking, as expected, will not lead to anything decent and effective. India is somewhat different from the country that is rich in the historical school of engineers and designers; it is clear that until the middle of the last century it was an ordinary British colony, where there was simply no need for anyone to develop invention.

The tenacity with which Indians are trying to create something of their own is, of course, commendable, but this “own” is simply stupidly copied British or Russian. Moreover, unlike their Chinese neighbors, Indians are not good at copying. And they will not succeed further; this is a slightly different path of development, which does not end where simple licensed copying begins.
Well, plus colossal Indian corruption.

In fact, theft - of course, yes, it was, is and will be. The only question is under what flag. And you can have fun developing “domestic” types of weapons for several decades, but on condition that the developers have an army behind them, armed with quite normal weapons.

The fact that the frankly poor INSAS was replaced with the AK-103/203 is a normal move. How much longer they will dance around the Arjun is a question, but there are T-90 and T-72, which are definitely better than what Pakistan and China have. Tejas, of course, can be tolerated because there is a Su-30MKI. And so on.


I will express the opinion that after having fun with the game of creating “their own” weapons, bright Indian minds will return to purchasing in Russia and producing at home. Actually, to the fact that they are doing it more or less decently. And there you can try again to create something like “Brahmos”, it was a very successful work.

The main thing is not to give up, like they abandoned the FGFA fighter project. This is a demonstration of the approach itself: we don’t like it, we’ll take it somewhere else, cheaper, maybe not new, but we’ll take it. And, having refused to develop an aircraft “for themselves,” Indian leaders doomed pilots to fly the MiG-21, and instead of the fifth-generation fighter, the Tejas, which can really be screwed by the MiG-29, which is by no means a standard in the sky.

In general, India's security is best ensured by strong friendship with Russia, backed by a good amount of currency. And tomorrow you won’t have a headache at all, and you can continue to have fun with the inventions of Indian weapons, which have no analogues in the world in the good sense of the word.

It is purely Indian and looks very beautiful. At parades. It’s better to fight with Russian weapons. It was made for someone else, it’s safer with him.
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  1. +13
    April 3 2024 04: 16
    In general, technology of the highest order is given to Indians with enormous problems. Yes, they really want to do everything themselves and not depend on anyone. This is a very correct approach on the one hand, but on the other...

    ...they were able to land their spacecraft on the Moon... belay
    In general, India's security is best ensured by strong friendship with Russia, backed by a good amount of currency.

    Undoubtedly, the Russians did not tie the Indians to guns...
    1. +9
      April 3 2024 04: 44
      India is jealous of China, that's all.
      1. +24
        April 3 2024 07: 59
        So compare the communist PRC and the capitalist Republic of India. The PRC has progress and the 21st century, the communists were able to take the country out of the 3rd world in one generation and make it world power No. 1. And like the “democrats” in the Republic of Ingushetia, they lay in a swamp of poverty and on the sidelines of progress and continue to poke around.

        How can one not recall the reverse situation, when in another country the communists were driven out and the “democrats” climbed onto the barrel? So, there the “reformers” were able to turn a world power into a third world country in one generation.
        1. +10
          April 3 2024 08: 56
          Everything is correct about communists and “democratic reformers”, but China is not a good example. There are no communists there and capitalism is very fierce.
          1. -5
            April 3 2024 08: 59
            Do you live there? Have you read the Constitution of the People's Republic of China? How many capitalists are there in China's parliament? Is the bourgeois party also in power? Before you write obvious stupidity, learn the materiel. Unless you are in the service of the local oligarchy, that will be clear from the answer.
            1. +12
              April 3 2024 09: 36
              I don’t live there, but at one time I communicated with party functionaries in Vietnam and China every day. Including first-hand experience.
              Socialism and communists do not allow the presence of a bourgeoisie and capitalist relations in principle. And the capitalists in China are pushing through their interests, to the detriment of the interests of the proletariat and without any “parliament”. So it’s you who teach the materiel. The exploitation of hard workers there is brutal, and the CCP is watching.
              They made fun of the constitution.
              1. -5
                April 3 2024 09: 42
                Quote: Essex62
                I don’t live there, but at one time I communicated with party functionaries in Vietnam and China every day. Including first-hand experience.
                Socialism and communists do not allow the presence of a bourgeoisie and capitalist relations in principle. And the capitalists in China are pushing through their interests, to the detriment of the interests of the proletariat and without any “parliament”. So it’s you who teach the materiel. The exploitation of hard workers there is brutal, and the CCP is watching.
                They made fun of the constitution.

                Well, everything is clear.. “I heard a ringing but doesn’t know where it is,” and I was already thinking about moving on to the indicators of the last five-year plans, median income, the goals of the CPC, the successes of public life, not to mention the economy. laughing The advice is simple - don’t believe oligarchic propaganda.
                1. 0
                  April 3 2024 09: 50
                  I don’t give a damn about the successes of the bourgeoisie and speculators who determine the life of society, under any guise.
                  Have you read what I wrote? Socialism-communism does not allow the presence of such categories. Only behind a barbed fence, with a pickle in his hands.
                  A dead-end model, the power of hucksters and purists. No matter how they sing about Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.
                  1. -1
                    April 3 2024 10: 28
                    Quote: Essex62
                    I don’t give a damn about the successes of the bourgeoisie and speculators who determine the life of society, under any guise.
                    Have you read what I wrote? Socialism-communism does not allow the presence of such categories. Only behind a barbed fence, with a pickle in his hands.
                    A dead-end model, the power of hucksters and purists. No matter how they sing about Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.

                    Just as mathematics does not allow this, this is not dogma, but a guide to action, read Lenin. And as you can see, everything worked out for the PRC, just like the USSR.
                    Score on the scoreboard.
                    1. +3
                      April 3 2024 10: 44
                      Comrade Lenin himself, afraid of difficulties, made a mistake and fell into the NEP. Thanks, fixed.
                      This is exactly what a guide to action is. All the troubles on the planet are from profiteering, a disgusting, inhumane model. The power of the huckster is evil. It’s no different without a trader, but he should be at the lowest level of the social pyramid, and not determine life.
                      And in China, the hypocrites from the “K” PC erected this into a system under the slogans of communism. Double disgusting.
                      1. -1
                        April 4 2024 06: 51
                        The idiot started arguing with the bot) go find a normal job before it’s too late) you have a very low level of knowledge and skills for the local public)
                  2. +3
                    April 3 2024 10: 39
                    Do you consider the USSR to be pure socialism?
                    If you think so, then in Lenin's writings you can find "exchange of goods" or even "sale of goods." If Lenin was still laconic, then “he limits himself to commodity-money relations during the period of transition from capitalism to socialism.”
                    Stalin, therefore, made it clear that commodity production should not be confused with capitalist production, and directly stated that Soviet commodity production was intended to serve the cause of developing and strengthening socialist production together with its money economy
                    1. +3
                      April 3 2024 10: 52
                      I consider the USSR to be a model of socialism, but not without its shortcomings, like any three-dimensional system. And the question is, what are the principles of the TAR? Lenin, having introduced the NEP, apparently lost faith in the possibility of overcoming the crisis without the involvement of a trader; Stalin solved this problem. Having laid down the model of Soviet society for decades. It is not entirely correct to appeal to the works of Lenin in this matter. At the very “stigma in the cannon”.
                  3. +2
                    April 3 2024 15: 14
                    Why doesn’t this allow... Well, communism is a utopia, but socialism completely allows for private capital. Take the same NEP or “perestroika” in the USSR.
                    1. +1
                      April 3 2024 18: 52
                      The first was strangled in time, the second could not. We see the result. Socialism collapsed instantly. In fact, the dominance of the trader, and the most primitive one at that, buy there and sell here, the collapse of the Empire and the Civil War, with unclear prospects for the end.
            2. +4
              April 3 2024 12: 04
              Yes, formally China is a communist country. But in fact, a mixture of the communist system with fierce capitalism, worse than in the West.
            3. +2
              April 3 2024 12: 51
              I agree with everything that you wrote above, but whatever one may say, even though the Communist Party rules in China, there are also billionaires in this Communist Party, and in this case, China now has the NEP with which they can play around and waste all their communist achievements by turning into fierce imperialist predators
          2. -3
            April 3 2024 14: 52
            Quote: Essex62
            There are no communists there and capitalism is very fierce.
            1. The ideas of “communism” in the USSR and China are completely different (like the poles of a magnet).
            USSR - so that there are no rich people, China - so that there are no poor people.
            That is why elements of capitalism have never contradicted the ideas of communism in China.
            There, a course was set on building a society of universal prosperity.
            How they got there is another question, although there is nothing unusual, remember our first five-year plans, how Pavel Korchagin fell face first into the dirt while building some kind of narrow-gauge railway... was that also “exploitation” in your opinion? A goal was set and people did not spare themselves for the sake of the future.
            China was a very poor country, and now, for the first time in its history, every Chinese was able to eat to their fill (this was the pipe dream of every Chinese). The people there have a huge amount of trust in the government.
            And purely about the exploitation of the workforce - yes, they created an enticement for the West: China is the forge of the world where everything will be done for pennies... and they did it! BUT having received their technology, equipment, etc. began to gradually increase prices for their products and... raise the standard of living. But yes, if you don’t understand what was done from some Apple factory in China, you’ll be stunned - there were suicide nets at the bottom of the dorms, for 10-15 years it was just brutal... but China hasn’t been around for 10-15 years plans, their level of planning is centuries, and these 10-15 years for them were just a moment, one step on the ladder leading upward.
            1. +1
              April 3 2024 18: 38
              300-350 million of these non-poor people is of course a huge figure, if not for the small number...lard, with a big tail of those who work 12-15 hours a day for their well-being. There is nothing further to discuss. Everything that demonstrates the power of China is a beautiful façade. Naturally, they will not show the cruelest exploitation of the hard worker to strangers. A society where the main person speculates and watches over the hard worker cannot be called socialism. Credit to the authorities for a Chinese man brought up in the spirit of an ant? He should have tried not to trust. Relatives will also pay for the cartridges, if necessary.
              But communism is incompatible with speculation and usury. Sur
              Korchagin and the labor army, a harsh inevitability in a country at war for ten years in a row.
              1. 0
                April 3 2024 22: 07
                Quote: Essex62
                Naturally, they will not show the cruelest exploitation of the hard worker to strangers.
                Everything has been shown and told for a long time:
                https://dzen.ru/a/Y_G9E2upYig6Hqdt
                https://youtu.be/DerhelNXZZA
                https://youtu.be/XGf5fM1c6uQ
                https://habr.com/ru/articles/94771/
                But it's overgrown with dust.
                Quote: Essex62
                Credit to the authorities for a Chinese man brought up in the spirit of an ant?
                Photos in front of his people each term, 1 unfulfilled item for voters and will choose another.
                Quote: Essex62
                But communism is incompatible with speculation and usury.
                Stop writing nonsense, don’t confuse socialism and communism. Under socialism, we were simply taught that this would definitely happen: “from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs,” we just needed to raise a “new man” (but they couldn’t, they themselves became hucksters and decided... to return capitalism, which by that time was on the planet was dying).
                What they tried not to say: that there are DIFFERENT “communism”.
                "War communism": https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism
                Forgot/didn't know? - Sit down, deuce, go study.
                “Digital communism” (globalism, the notorious digital slavery) - don’t you know what is being built all over the world now? - sit down, count, go learn what communism is, you can make many different “communes” (anywhere, even in a zone, you can also consider it a “commune”). Don’t bring socialism into this at all, I grew up with it, and you have the wind in your head. You don’t even understand the very concept of “commune,” but you’re going to China where the devil himself will break his leg.
                1. 0
                  April 4 2024 08: 56
                  What are you pointing at? We grew up under socialism and were so uneducated. For example, I grew up under socialism and lived and defended when it was finished off.
                  I used the word communism as a form of relations and power of the working class. Naturally, I am aware of all types of communism. I don't need to give you ratings.
                  The construction of socialism was led by the communists?
                  And yet again, the presence of a speculator, moneylender, private owner, at large and in power, is not compatible with socialism. The rest is husk.
                  1. 0
                    April 7 2024 14: 48
                    And when the proletariat turned into the working class. And then what does it turn into?
                    1. 0
                      April 8 2024 09: 44
                      Learn the equipment and there will be no such questions.
            2. +1
              April 4 2024 06: 49
              Quote: VPK-65
              Quote: Essex62
              There are no communists there and capitalism is very fierce.
              1. The ideas of “communism” in the USSR and China are completely different (like the poles of a magnet).
              USSR - so that there are no rich people, China - so that there are no poor people.
              That is why elements of capitalism have never contradicted the ideas of communism in China.
              There, a course was set on building a society of universal prosperity.
              How they got there is another question, although there is nothing unusual, remember our first five-year plans, how Pavel Korchagin fell face first into the dirt while building some kind of narrow-gauge railway... was that also “exploitation” in your opinion? A goal was set and people did not spare themselves for the sake of the future.
              China was a very poor country, and now, for the first time in its history, every Chinese was able to eat to their fill (this was the pipe dream of every Chinese). The people there have a huge amount of trust in the government.
              And purely about the exploitation of the workforce - yes, they created an enticement for the West: China is the forge of the world where everything will be done for pennies... and they did it! BUT having received their technology, equipment, etc. began to gradually increase prices for their products and... raise the standard of living. But yes, if you don’t understand what was done from some Apple factory in China, you’ll be stunned - there were suicide nets at the bottom of the dorms, for 10-15 years it was just brutal... but China hasn’t been around for 10-15 years plans, their level of planning is centuries, and these 10-15 years for them were just a moment, one step on the ladder leading upward.

              You are not arguing with people, these are paid bots in the service of the oligarchy. Their task is to sow doubts, not to argue with something.
              1. 0
                April 4 2024 08: 41
                Am I a paid bot in the service of Aligarhat? laughing
                Eka, you, the singers of the speculative system and the infringement of the hard worker, have been brought to the denominator of the hucksters for 30 years. You justify its necessity, one over there even rates cola with deuces wassat
              2. +1
                April 4 2024 12: 35
                Quote: Civil
                You are not arguing with people, these are paid bots in the service of the oligarchy.
                But I’m not arguing, but trying to understand (bring to light) this character.
                Of course, I am aware of the MI6 manual about China, which is being inflated by our liberals in all the media, BUT: there are also those who are “fooled” by this manual (when a grain falls on fertile soil, it sprouts and becomes almost its own conviction).
                You can, for example, suspect all your opponents who accuse you of conspiracy theories that they are participating in Operation Mockingbird
                https://ruxpert.ru/Операция_«Пересмешник»
                But most of those who do this don’t even know about its existence...
                And purely about China: I’ve been listening to our sinologist Nikolai Vavilov for the 5th year now
                https://www.youtube.com/@nnvavilov/videos
                My wife has been working in a Chinese company for more than 20 years, I had a lot of business with them, at one time they even offered me to move to them (a position something like our “production manager”, with a personal translator), but I figured that It’s too late for me in age and I didn’t bother...
                1. -1
                  April 4 2024 13: 33
                  You will be tortured to “bring it to clean water.” Fuck what you will find. I was a Bolshevik and I will die. Your Chinese “comrades” are traitors, and you are either blind or in the wings of the cunning, stubborn bourgeoisie. Socialism can only be of one type - established by the proletariat and its dictatorship 100+ years ago. Spine to the nail.
                  1. +1
                    April 4 2024 13: 44
                    1. -1
                      April 4 2024 14: 15
                      And what? Words words words. You simply do not want to admit that the NEP, even here, is a betrayal of the interests of the worker. If only the Soviet people understood this in the 80s, if only they knew for sure how these “perestroikas” would end for them. I mean the Soviets, and not those who were itching to sell money.
                      1. +2
                        April 4 2024 15: 17
                        Quote: Essex62
                        And what? Words words words. You just don't want to admit that NEP, be it here or where there is a betrayal of the interests of the worker.
                        So they burned to pieces, because the “words” are your “communist” balabols like Gorbachev, Zyuganov and others who threw away/torn their party cards at the first opportunity.
                        Don’t get too attached to the “workers”, I’ve been working on machines all my life, working on everything that moves:
                        http://stanki-katalog.ru/sprav.htm
                        So, all our men dreamed of was: We should return the NEP for 2-3 years, or... defeat Germany one more time, so that ALL the machines can be taken out of there again as reparations. wassat
                        And the babbles still think that the union designed the machines themselves, but you go to the factory and everywhere you look, there is only Germany or clones from it. Even the notorious 1K62 coffin is still considered Soviet, although it is one of the Boehringer models (and not the most successful). And how many clones of the same Schaublin, DECKEL, etc. and so on. 80% of the equipment in my workshops was German, most of which we took from the factories of Carl Zeiss.
                        PS, the Chinese are great - they pulled off the NEP and received equipment (even from Japan, which hates them). Now they face the second part: Taiwan. For those in the tank: do not destroy it, but take intact the equipment for producing chips, and also do not turn hostile those Taiwanese who worked on it (technology) against yourself. Taiwan in the form in which we got Azovstal to the Chinese is not needed for nothing.
                      2. 0
                        April 5 2024 10: 38
                        I didn't understand about the machines. What are you speaking about? I hate Hunchback, I despise Zyuganov. And the NEP is the power of the huckster. That's all.
                        PS. The degenerates from “K” PC will not get the production of microchips and they know it. That’s why there was endless blah, without concrete actions. Which, by the way, they are right about. What's the point of starting your own war when we have ours in front of your eyes? Traders, they know how to calculate options.
                        PS PS I keep my candidate card.
                      3. 0
                        April 5 2024 14: 15
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I didn't understand about the machines. What are you speaking about?
                        Almost all the machines we used in the USSR were German, imported during the NEP and after the victory over Germany. And we didn’t need others - the Anglo-Saxons did not use the metric system (they have inches, feet, pounds and other heresy). Those machines are outdated/collapsed, there was no machine tool industry of our own, where can we get new ones? I bet you don’t even know that they don’t sell new high-precision CNC machines. This is only called a sale, but in reality... it is a long-term lease with the notorious cryptographic service. This year they brought you a disk/flash drive with software and... extended the timer, but if they decided that you didn’t need to sharpen shells on it, they didn’t deliver it. Even if the manufacturer loses the opportunity to slap you with a tomahawk - you changed the GPS binding, the machine will become a brick:
                        https://habr.com/ru/articles/208390/
                        Of course, there are methods against such cryptography, but the personal presence of the manufacturer is required:
                        https://neolurk.org/wiki/Терморектальный_криптоанализатор
                        Of course, without service, a machine does not immediately become a brick, it simply gradually loses its functionality - it was 5-axis, became 4-axis, and then 3-axis (of course, exaggerated for ease of understanding).
                      4. 0
                        April 5 2024 14: 48
                        I know about the machines imported from Germany in 1945+; I worked on one myself in my youth. And about the bourgeois machines already imported by our Russian hucksters, which are also “dying” here today. I just don’t understand how this relates to my position on the NEP and its Chinese modification?
                      5. 0
                        April 5 2024 15: 30
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I just don’t understand how this relates to my position on the NEP and its Chinese modification?
                        The Chinese NEP is a little similar to ours, thanks to him they received equipment and technology. But the NEP is not eternal, although it is certainly evil, it was inevitable. There is no equipment, no technology and... what kind of “working class” can one write about (about its oppression, etc.) if it had not formed there at all? I'll tell you another great secret: of normal The employee is interested not only in salary, but in working conditions. A machine (equipment) if it is decent will allow you to really earn money because there will be no defects (and deductions due to them), more products, less hassle, etc. (and promises of high salaries from balabols are worth nothing). Next: premises, if you come to a “communist” workshop where instead of a floor there is sunken asphalt, a leaky glass roof high above your head, no heating, in winter you will work not in overalls, but in padded jackets and felt boots with a hat with earflaps, special fires for heating right in the middle of the workshop. And the cherry on the cake: sit by such a fire to warm your hands, light a Belomorina and... you will be fined by the local fireman.
                        Now no one will go to work in such a “circus with horses”; we need to create working conditions and talk less about the notorious exploitation of workers.
                        Question for an expert: where was the head of the communists when they decided that we would have machine tool manufacturing in Yerevan? For 70 years, these senile people have seen at least one part made on Yerevan equipment? Yes, not a single hard worker approached them for a cannon shot.
                        Of course, there were pleasant exceptions: the Izhevsk Machine Tool Plant, it did not produce clones, it was purely a domestic development.
                      6. 0
                        April 5 2024 19: 20
                        Where did you see such a circus with horses in the Brezhnev USSR? Warm your hands by the fire in the workshop. While on duty in Tyumen, I warmed myself by the fire, I had to. And my hands froze to the metal of tractors and MAZs. But that has nothing to do with it.
                        The main thing here is the salary. For everyone, without exception. Salary, no margin, profit from speculation, etc. As for the shortcomings, the Union knows that there were plenty of senile people. I don't argue about the details. But you prove that without hucksters socialism will not survive.
                      7. 0
                        April 5 2024 20: 26
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Where did you see such a circus with horses in the Brezhnev USSR?
                        Absolutely everywhere in heavy engineering, with the exception of instrument making.
                        For example, just as they burned fires in the workshop under Brezhnev, they still burn them now:
                        http://wikimapia.org/1444286/ru/Завод_«ТурбоАтомГаз»
                        Those who did not burn their “tricks” on fires, for example, at the Sverdlov plant, they simply could not be lit - the workers walked along the stage, step left/step right and you would fall ankle-deep into waste oil wassat
                        Here's an example without fires:
                        http://koavia.com/
                        but you can still break your neck there by simply falling under the asphalt and boiling in boiling water without leaving 2 steps from your workplace. What he was like under the communists, he remained like that under the liberals... but what am I talking about? a liberal is a former communist who threw out his CPSU party card and joined the new party in power lol Hurray comrades! The sign on the hostel has been changed! now we... ahem... lol
                        Now look at the Chinese “horror-horror” from the angle I said:
                        https://dzen.ru/a/Y_G9E2upYig6Hqdt
                        The floor is asphalt? are there any fires? are they wearing quilted jackets? broken equipment? did any of them complain about the salary?
                        They have almost everything except... the director's order: from tomorrow we will work not 12 hours, but 10, and in six months, 8 hours... and they are kings. Can this be done in a communist factory? oh yes, our roof is leaking and the floor is falling in laughing
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The main thing here is the salary.
                        This is what a liberal communist thinks, who has been rotting the working class for 70 years while sitting in his cozy office (with an oil radiator under his ass).
                      8. 0
                        April 5 2024 20: 57
                        Who told you that a liberal is a communist? He had never been one, even with a ticket. I believe in the fact that today they burn and fail. I have never seen anything like this in the Union. Although he did not work at the plant for long and in Moscow. Then I turned the auto nuts, then the steering wheel. Maybe it was somewhere. But not systematically. In this situation, hard workers would have been sent on the journey on foot. Tea is not serfs and not WWII.
                      9. 0
                        April 5 2024 21: 28
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Who told you that a liberal is a communist? He had never been one, even with a ticket.
                        A liberal is a person serving the interests of world financial speculators. Look around and look at them, all the older ones used to sit in the regional committees of the CPSU Central Committee, and then instantly changed their shoes in the air. There is no need to even write about the Komsomol members - they were the first to become black marketeers. Those who were slackers and wiped their pants in front of the communists while sitting in a chair remained so, and those who stood in the “stall at the machine” continued to plow (I don’t see the difference in the signs: hostel/brothel; communists/liberals). What idle workers call themselves is generally violet))
                      10. +1
                        April 6 2024 16: 19
                        That's what I'm talking about. There was nothing from the communists in them from the beginning. Careerists, opportunists. Most of the real ones died in the Second World War, they were the ones who survived and taught their children this and put them in a warm place. And the kids moved on, they abolished socialism altogether. There was no longer that core in the working class. Just slogans. Like plasticine.
          3. -3
            April 3 2024 16: 22
            Quote: Essex62
            Everything is correct about communists and “democratic reformers”, but China is not a good example. There are no communists there and capitalism is very fierce.

            Is this the official version? Do the Chinese know?
            1. 0
              April 3 2024 18: 39
              Of course I know. This is not a version - the harsh truth of life.
            2. 0
              April 3 2024 19: 12
              He doesn't talk about a socialist society, he says "Socialist Fundamentalism."
            3. +1
              April 4 2024 18: 20
              Of course the Chinese are aware.
          4. +1
            April 3 2024 20: 07
            The main, key difference between socialism and capitalism, difference No. 1, if you like, is private and state ownership of land. We have had capitalism even on formal grounds since 2005; it was this year that private ownership of land was introduced, and in fact since February 1987. When did the “law on individual labor activity” appear? China has the most FIERCE SOCIALISM. All the land there belongs to the Chinese state, or to the Chinese people. It can only be rented, for a Chinese private person 29 years old or 49 years old, for a legal entity of another state 49 or 99 years old (remember Hong Kong), it cannot be sold, pledged, or taken out a loan or mortgage against it. You just need to pay rent (rent) to the Chinese state. And also in China - GOSPLAN, and everything is planned not for 5 years as in the USSR, but plans are made for 5 years, 10 years, 15 years and even 50 years. There is FIERCE SOCIALISM more abruptly than in the USSR in some 1966.
            1. -1
              April 4 2024 09: 01
              All these accompanying signs are not significant. The basic principle is not observed - the ban on private property in the settlement. , personal enrichment and exploitation of private workers.
              PS. The Chinese state is overseers from the "K" PC, protecting the interests of the bourgeoisie, in fact. So who pays the rent?
              1. +1
                April 4 2024 15: 25
                China is full of signs of both capitalism and socialism. I'm afraid the Chinese themselves will not answer this question. Let me just remind you of the words of Deng Xiaoping: “It doesn’t matter what color a cat is, as long as it catches mice.”
                1. -1
                  April 5 2024 10: 29
                  The "color of the cat" is of paramount importance. This is very similar to another common phrase - money has no smell. In the simple language of the working-class outskirts, the authorities hang noodles, while pushing the hard worker with a dealer’s whip, skimming off the cream. The fact that the hucksters there periodically fall under distribution does not mean anything at all. Just a bourgeois squabble over a fatter piece.
        2. 0
          April 4 2024 18: 13
          There has been no communism in China for a long time - the fact that this is a complete utopia was realized at one time by Deng Xiaoping and carried out reforms that finally led China away from the communist path. There, the state doesn’t even pay pensions to its citizens, what the hell communism is that?
          In China, capitalism will be tougher than any capitalist country))
          1. -1
            April 4 2024 19: 28
            Quote from The Watcher
            The state there doesn’t even pay pensions to its citizens.

            "This is again a case of so-called lies." (With)
            1. -1
              April 5 2024 10: 23
              This is again a fact. You just need to remember about the size of China’s population and how many of them are “covered by social services,” and how many are simply plowing for pennies, without the prospect of any state support, in old age. And this age is shifted according to the principle “from the machine to the grave.” In other matters, like everywhere else today.
              1. +2
                April 5 2024 11: 36
                Quote: Essex62
                and how many simply plow for pennies, without the prospect of any support from the state, in old age.

                I don't understand why you invent nonsense. Type in the search “China pension system” and read:
                There are three types of pensions in China... The most common pension is generally similar to ours - it is formed from citizen contributions in the form of salary deductions. The employee transfers 8 percent of the amount to the pension fund, and another 20 percent - his employer. In addition, each person can open their own savings account. ... Finally, peasants who do not have a special income, as well as unemployed urban residents, receive a minimum allowance from the state. Today it averages 600-700 yuan (about 5600-6500 rubles) across the country, but in some places it already reaches 1200 yuan (11 rubles). Pension funds in China are formed at the regional level. The difference in pensions for residents of relatively prosperous Shanghai and the poor Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region can be eightfold. If we talk about the average ordinary - not "collective farm" - pension, then, according to calculations for 200, it is approximately 2018 yuan (2550 rubles).

                Moreover, this is data for 2018. The numbers are probably higher now.
                https://rg.ru/2018/07/25/kak-ustroena-pensionnaia-sistema-v-sovremennom-kitae.html
                1. 0
                  April 5 2024 15: 00
                  This is what appeals to me about the modern Russian, raised on the principles laid down by the Freemasons, after the flower garden of 1991, the boundless faith in what is written on the Internet. tongue And I tell you, there are those who can no longer work for the uncle of the party functionary, who has merged with the bourgeoisie. They feed children who can still plow. One and a half lard and a quarter of them are either close to or already at the age of incapacity. To feed everyone and clothe them, the economy would have collapsed long ago. Everything is fine with the degenerates from “K” PC, on the sign. Keep believing. They also believe in our towers.
                  1. +1
                    April 5 2024 15: 02
                    Quote: Essex62
                    boundless faith in what is written on the Internet.

                    Do you prefer to believe what you sucked from your own finger?
                    1. -1
                      April 6 2024 16: 27
                      I prefer to believe the people who run this system themselves. Under Russian vodka and in another country, without control, tongues are loosened even at scorched Chinese desks. functionaries
                      1. +1
                        April 6 2024 16: 35
                        Quote: Essex62
                        I prefer to believe the people who run this system themselves. Under Russian vodka and in another country, without control, tongues are loosened even at scorched Chinese desks. functionaries

                        Do you understand what nonsense you are talking about? What other party functionaries? Me too, Dr. Sorge. Come to China and ask the first elderly Chinese you meet whether he receives a pension or not.
                      2. -1
                        April 6 2024 16: 50
                        Anyone? Are you sure of a positive answer? And what does Sorge have to do with it?
                        The Chinese nomenklatura and the bourgeoisie bend the Chinese hard worker to the fullest because under full-blown capitalism there is no other way. And it’s you who don’t talk nonsense about his sweet life.
                        Real socialism can only be of one type, Soviet. No private property and no speculation.
                      3. 0
                        April 6 2024 16: 55
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Anyone? Are you sure of a positive answer?

                        And you try.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        And what does Sorge have to do with it?

                        If you don’t like Sorge, you can consider yourself Mata Hari. Asking Chinese party functionaries (over Russian vodka) whether China actually has a pension system.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        And it’s you who don’t talk nonsense about his sweet life.

                        Same to you.
                      4. -1
                        April 6 2024 17: 02
                        And I didn’t think to ask. The conversation was about systems and life in the Russian Federation and China. And the “comrade” was very surprised why our government was so loyal to the hard worker. Well, etc.
                        And where did I deny the existence of a pension system in China? The point was that not everyone is covered, and pensions are meager. There, 300-350 million people really live from scratch. This is not acceptable under socialism. The sport was originally about this, what kind of social system there is. And you slipped into particulars.
                      5. +1
                        April 6 2024 17: 16
                        Quote: Essex62
                        The point was that not everyone is covered, and pensions are meager.

                        I have provided a link to a source describing both the coverage and the approximate size of pensions in China. If you have any other, more reliable source, please provide it. If you don’t have such a source, you can end this conversation as meaningless. Fishing tales about intimate conversations with party functionaries are not interesting to me.
                      6. -1
                        April 6 2024 17: 30
                        I'm not interested in official sources. They almost always do not reflect the real state of affairs. And again, you are talking about particulars. It should have been rounded off a long time ago. None of the opponents, advocates of the NEP, brought forward arguments about supposed socialism in the PRC as a system in favor of the worker.
                      7. 0
                        April 6 2024 18: 31
                        Quote: Essex62
                        And again, you are talking about particulars.

                        Yes, about one specific thing. The claim has been made that in China the state does not pay pensions to citizens. I have shown that this statement is a lie.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        Arguments about supposed socialism in the PRC

                        This is not for me at all.
                      8. 0
                        April 6 2024 20: 18
                        No, it's not a lie.
                        It pays, but not to all citizens.
                      9. 0
                        April 6 2024 20: 38
                        Quote: Essex62
                        No, it's not a lie.

                        If someone claims that the state does not pay pensions, then even the fact of paying a pension to at least one person makes this statement a lie. L - logic.

                        Quote: Essex62
                        It pays, but not to all citizens.

                        No state pays pensions to all citizens. For example, when I lived in the USSR, they did not pay me a pension. If you think about it, you might even be able to figure out why.
                      10. 0
                        April 6 2024 22: 39
                        Are you joking? Or are you 90+++? If this is so, I can’t even imagine the reason for refusing you upon reaching retirement age.
                        Once again, where was it said that in China they don’t pay pensions at all? They are paid only by those who have reached retirement age. Who is lucky enough to be included in these privileged 350 million?
                      11. 0
                        April 6 2024 22: 45
                        Quote: Essex62
                        Once again, where was it said that in China they don’t pay pensions at all?

                        Quote from The Watcher
                        There, the state doesn’t even pay pensions to its citizens, what the hell is communism?
                      12. 0
                        April 6 2024 22: 50
                        And you don’t consider those citizens who can’t eat without butter to be citizens of China? Pointless argument. Go further to the Internet and absorb the officialdom. At least about China, at least about the Russian Federation, at least about the partners of the towers.
                      13. 0
                        April 6 2024 23: 20
                        Quote: Essex62
                        And you don’t consider those citizens who can’t eat without butter to be citizens of China? Pointless argument.

                        Really.
      2. 0
        April 3 2024 12: 10
        Well why? Producing weapons for oneself is the blue dream of all generals, admirals and government officials. officials at all levels. You do it yourself, in the right quantities, and you don’t depend on anyone. The problem is that even in past centuries, with simpler technologies, this could only be achieved in its pure form only by England and the USA. And even then, with some reservations. So, the Indians are on the right path, but the path is slow and difficult. Yes, they made a lot of mistakes, and their corruption has not gone away.
      3. +1
        April 4 2024 08: 52
        The Indians were blown away. And they were late.
        Today they have only one option - to halve by three times. Moreover, just yesterday (or better at five). An abrupt end to caste dances and other social perversions.
        Because, by the way, they really don’t seem to worry about weapons there. For, like that elusive Joe, there are one and a half lard of beggars' mouths, who have never given in to conquering anyone in order to feed them later.
    2. +3
      April 3 2024 09: 09
      and if we talk about who India actually has the closest ties with:
      "As per the visit announcement dated November 11, India's Ministry of External Affairs stated that there is a growing bilateral partnership between the two countries. During the visit, External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar will hold talks with his counterpart James Cleverly and meet a number of other officials.
      India and the UK "share warm and prosperous relations" and a bilateral comprehensive strategic partnership was launched in 2021 along with the India-UK Roadmap 2030, aimed at enhancing trade relations, investment, defense and security cooperation. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said India and the UK want to conclude a free trade agreement by the end of the year."
      1. +1
        April 3 2024 09: 40
        Yeah, they seem to have thrown off the colonial yoke, but they still won’t forget the “white sahib (sahib).”
        1. +6
          April 3 2024 09: 49
          Quote from AdAstra
          Yeah, they seem to have thrown off the colonial yoke, but they still won’t forget the “white sahib (sahib).”

          The Japanese have lost their memory of the atomic bombs dropped by the Americans... The Vietnamese have forgotten who carried out the carpet bombings... Well, the Indians don’t remember who twisted their arms and shot them from cannons...
          It’s good that China hasn’t forgotten about the opium interventions...
          1. Des
            +4
            April 3 2024 10: 45
            Everyone remembers everything, but the matter - the prosperity of the state - is the matter. And they are working on it as best they can. Quite successfully. Memory exists and has its realized goals.
            1. 0
              April 3 2024 10: 50
              Quote: Des
              Everyone remembers everything, but the matter - the prosperity of the state - is the matter.

              I don’t think that the Japanese would live worse if they drove the Americans out and made peace with their neighbors...
              1. Des
                +3
                April 3 2024 10: 53
                Having sent me out - when?)) This is very, in my opinion, important.
              2. 0
                April 3 2024 11: 54
                The Americans are protecting them from all their neighbors. Without them, they would have had to spend many times more on defense, and the economic miracle might not have happened.
                1. 0
                  April 3 2024 12: 24
                  Quote: Kmon
                  The Americans are protecting them from all their neighbors.

                  And who attacked them? As far as I know, it is Japan who has always coveted and covets foreign territories - it is cramped on the islands.
                  As for the Americans, they never covered for anyone. Today they occupy Japan and Germany in reality and officially. I can’t say how this will all end, but for now the whole world is working for the American dollar, which was established as the world currency with the help of military force.
                  If the whole world is happy with this, then a few economically weak countries are not able to reverse the situation.
                  1. +1
                    April 3 2024 17: 29
                    Nobody touched them precisely because of American cover. And since the neighbors’ bills are very large after WWII, it’s strange that you don’t know how Asia treats Japan.
              3. +2
                April 3 2024 13: 34
                Why send the US out? To lose the main sources of its well-being - Western technologies and world markets, to finally kill its industry, which is already barely moving under the yoke of implicit US sanctions?
                Making peace with whom?
                With Russia? While there are enough resources on the world market, this is impossible in principle. After 22 years, we will not give up the disputed islands (in the foreseeable future), and this is a key point for them, which they will never give up (in the foreseeable future).
                With China? This is the main and only geopolitical competitor that took away from them (according to the US plan) the mirage of “superpower status” looming before their noses. Making peace means exactly one thing - coming to terms with, recognizing your dependence on China (as in the past on the United States), and this is unacceptable. Firstly, bending over to China is an unthinkable loss of face, and secondly, the benefits will not even be zero, but deeply negative. Unlike the US vassalage, which allowed them to develop so powerfully.
                1. -2
                  April 3 2024 13: 39
                  Quote: Passing by
                  Unlike the US vassalage, which allowed them to develop so powerfully.

                  Isn’t this the same USA that built nuclear power plants there?
                  There are many other priorities and the light has not converged on the United States. Moreover, in case of danger, the states will betray Japan, as well as Germany, leaving them to the mercy of fate, to survive in conditions of shortage of electricity, fuel and food...
                  Actually, I personally just don’t want to worry about the fate of the Japanese...
                  1. +4
                    April 3 2024 13: 50
                    Quote: ROSS 42
                    the light has not fallen like a wedge on the USA

                    Exactly what came together. After the 90s. Now there are a lot of fantasies about a multipolar world, but in fact, even the China-West bipolar world is not confirmed by anything factual. China is dependent on the US. China cannot develop without the West. Moreover, we have already observed how, with a slight movement of the hand of the world behind the scenes, Japan, which was gaining unprecedented momentum, was deflated within ten years.
                  2. +3
                    April 3 2024 17: 33
                    These are the USA that rebuilt Germany and Japan from the ruins after WWII. After which the Germans and Japanese began to live noticeably better than before. This is actually why they treat them as friends and protectors, and not occupiers.

                    The fact that so far no one has dared to touch Germany and Japan (despite the fact that for the same USSR and China they were obvious enemies) means that American defense is working quite well, in contrast to the slogans “but they will abandon everyone in case of danger ". No, they won’t, otherwise all the alliances they have built will collapse, their reputation will fall through the roof, and they will lose all geopolitical influence.
                    1. -2
                      April 3 2024 19: 06
                      The USSR did not harbor aggressive plans and did not intend to “touch” Japan with Germany (FRG). Behind the puddle they knew about this, but they taught the patients the opposite. The japams were brainwashed at the highest level. Most people think that we dropped the loaves on them. This is what they are told at school, according to the “striped” training manuals.
                      1. +2
                        April 3 2024 19: 20
                        The plans were 100% the same as those of any General Staff. “Seven Days Before the Rhine” is proof of this; there are obviously many others that are still classified. As for their intentions, if there were no American troops there, both countries would probably have shared the fate of Poland and the Baltic states.

                        Yes, I see this statement all the time, but there is no evidence. Scans of Japanese textbooks online prove the opposite. Japanese Wikipedia page about atomic bombings too. They all know perfectly well.
                      2. -1
                        April 4 2024 09: 20
                        What fate? How do anti-Soviet propaganda wreak havoc on your brains? fool
                        There was no more peace-loving USSR on the planet, which survived a terrible war with huge losses. And why add to 1/6 of the land also bare, without buns, islands, with the prospect of many years of guerrilla warfare?
                        Plans "to the Rhine" are only in response to aggression. The leadership of the USSR refused to further export socialism. Only defense of the conquered.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
              4. -1
                April 3 2024 16: 26
                Having received a couple more atomic bombs as a farewell?
          2. +2
            April 3 2024 11: 06
            Forgot. They lie tightly under the globalists because without a Western sales market, the Chinese 300 million “elites” are nothing.
    3. 0
      April 4 2024 07: 39
      this Arjun-rajun was clearly built according to German patterns, a sort of Leopard or even Tiger.
      If inclined frontal plates have been used in tank building all over the world for a long time, the Germans persistently make a strictly vertical frontal plate and the Indians follow them there. It has been proven that this leads to a decrease in protection and an increase in weight with other problems of heavy weight.
      There is no visible dynamic protection or active protection, which means they have definitely invested in the front plate.
      All that remains is to buy armor with uranium from Amerof and then there will be a great link between East and West.
  2. +4
    April 3 2024 04: 32
    The question arises: why the hell did they hand out licenses to all sorts of creatures from Eastern Europe under the USSR? They have filled the whole world with Kalash or tanks, and we are in the air for money.
    The same T72 tanks were bought not from us, but from them, and we are in trouble both because of the money and the workload of the factories. It’s very smart to help all sorts of little brothers darn.
    1. +14
      April 3 2024 05: 18
      Quote: Totor5
      The question arises: why the hell did they hand out licenses to all sorts of creatures from Eastern Europe during the USSR?

      Licenses were issued to Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1978. Within the framework of a single Department of Internal Affairs and CMEA. And above all for our own armies. This was standard practice; for example, in Poland they made large landing craft for us.
      At that time, no one expected a transition to “effective capitalism” during perestroika in the USSR.
      And by the way, the majority of exported T-72 tanks came from the USSR, and the lion’s share of exports from Eastern Europe occurred in the 80s when they were allies.
      Since the beginning of the 90s, the T-72 market was dominated by the former Soviet republics, that is, parts of the USSR, and not at all by the former CMEA countries.
  3. -2
    April 3 2024 04: 56
    Indians make the best motorcycles I have ever seen and it shows in their parades!
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +2
        April 3 2024 06: 20
        The main question here is not only about beauty and dancing, but also about ... rupees (rubles). Beauty is beauty, but who will pay for ... beauty placed somewhere? And the Great Raspil does not tolerate emptiness. Absolutely.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. +20
    April 3 2024 05: 05
    Strange article. Of course, it is difficult to get out of the state of a country of peripheral capitalism (which presupposes the presence of its own defense industry) while being within the framework of this very capital system. This requires a jewelry policy; success is not guaranteed, but there are a lot of problems.
    But the one who walks will master the road. And in any case, this is better than doing nothing, or incomparably better than the Russian Federation’s path. Which at a rapid pace traveled the road in the strictly opposite direction from an industrially developed socialist country to the periphery of the capital world, which frantically thinks about what we will fly on, or from what warehouses we can get old Soviet tanks, guns, and shells.
    As for Yaroslava’s moans about the loss of the Indian market and calls - come back, I’ll forgive everything, it’s too late.
    India, thanks to the minimally sane policy of its authorities, is now like an enviable bride of marriageable age. It is a key element in the plans of both globalists and Trumpists (here they are united). She was given the green light for money and technology. It will be possible to return to its market only after the SVO, and only if we trade weapons with it in the same style as we trade oil now.
    1. KCA
      +1
      April 3 2024 07: 59
      Who will stop Indians from purchasing in rupees?
  6. 0
    April 3 2024 05: 31
    India in general can serve as an example of how not to do things in the style of “What’s yours is the best in the world.”
    . Big country, big quirks!
    If this didn’t exist, it would be worth inventing it!
  7. +13
    April 3 2024 05: 44
    Mini-epic about a useless plane
    There are no useless planes. Even if the plane was not a success, the team of engineers gained invaluable R&D experience, which can be used in subsequent models. It didn’t work out with the first plane, but it will work out with the second one. The second one won’t work, the third one will definitely work! You can’t buy experience with a license; it’s gained over years and failures.
    1. -1
      April 3 2024 06: 08
      Yes, this is an improvement. Just don't compare with other countries.
  8. IVZ
    +5
    April 3 2024 05: 47
    comparison with the AK-103 showed that the Russian assault rifle misfires 0,02%,
    Not misfires, but delays. Any. This is the allowable amount. Misfire due to the fault of a weapon is one of the types of delay. A misfire caused by the cartridge is not considered a delay.
    1. -1
      April 3 2024 14: 18
      Comparing INSAS with the 5.56x45 cartridge and AK-103 with 7.62x39 is incorrect in terms of weapon delays.
      Then the AK-203 (7.62x39) was adopted. So maybe the Indians weren’t happy with the 5.56 caliber?
  9. IVZ
    +1
    April 3 2024 05: 52
    Why Bulgarian AKs? Well, everything is simple here: price.
    Just like the Americans for Iraq. But at one time they wrote that the Bulgarian AK is more expensive than ours, but it’s a matter of manufacturing quality. After all, they didn’t buy it in China.
  10. 0
    April 3 2024 06: 08
    It is purely Indian and looks very beautiful. At parades. It’s better to fight with Russian weapons. It was made for someone else, it’s safer with him.

    Another conclusion suggests itself - it is better not to fight, but to continue singing and dancing. Although there are 1.5 billion Indians, maybe ancient “Soviet galoshes” will suit them...
  11. -11
    April 3 2024 06: 43
    Quote: Yuri L
    It’s very interesting how many episodes there will be in the new Russian film series “Armata”, “Coalition-SV” (it’s not entirely clear about the number of episodes, but there seem to be glimpses), “Boomerang”, “Su-75” from the famous Russian film producer “Raspilcinema”? I think we’ll give even Bollywood a head start here. But how beautifully the main characters of these series walk and dance in the parades. And how joyfully they are greeted in the stands, with song and dance by the construction-MES artists at heart! Still, we learn, we learn something too. ..from Bollywood. And everyone knows that the machines developed by their fathers and based on those developed by their fathers will go into the mud and fire. Long live "Raspilcinema"! Disco dancers...at colorful, song-filled tank biathlons! Ala-ala, Ala-ala..."Check and...Checkmate", only checkmate remains.

    No, of course, it’s not forbidden to talk your tongue, but to do this you need to look around a little and understand the conditions in which everything happens. On the one hand, a country with 19000 sanctions, if I’m not mistaken, on the other, the third economy in the world with unlimited human resources.
    But in order to see and appreciate all this, you just need to stop seeing only the negative and stop trying to spit in the direction of your own people. Of course, everything abroad is better, and living there is probably better. So go there and live there, and if necessary, spit in their direction...
    1. -1
      April 3 2024 06: 59
      ....with unlimited human resources

      Population is not a human resource
      The concept of human resources is "the right people".
    2. +1
      April 3 2024 10: 50
      Unlimited human resources, dwindling at such a rate that millions of migrants have to be attracted. Take the pasta out of your eyes and look around, because women are no longer giving birth and it will only get worse.
      1. +1
        April 4 2024 10: 30
        Noodles for pasta.
        All these “millions of workers” are the lot of primitive economies in the 21st century
    3. +5
      April 3 2024 12: 49
      Can you explain to the guys at LBS that they are dying because sanctions have been imposed on us for fifteen years (and the development of the same Armata, Boomerangs, Coalition-SVs has been going on for that long)? And the Enemy has quite a lot of the same artillery, firing 20 kilometers further. Didn't do it because of sanctions? How then did you prepare for the SVO? And then what did the much more complex and expensive Vanguards, Poseidons, and Petrels do at the same time? Yes, they exist. But how, how do these types of undoubtedly necessary weapons help the guys at the LBS? The fact that the amero-fascist does not hit the Russian Federation vigorously with a loaf of bread is because he is already afraid of our Bulaves, Voevods, and Sarmatovs. And the sarcasm is that instead of the above, it was necessary to make a lot of A-50s (I’m silent about the A-100), a radio reconnaissance satellite constellation, Helios-RLD, Coalition-SV, the new “Zoo”, the same FPV. drones, “agrodrones, make digital communications at home, don’t pray to Uncle Liao, like now.. But we .... have danced in parades and biathlons since 2015, like Indian friends. That’s what the pain is about - how we prepared and what as a result, the second army in the world has after two years of the Northern Military District. Yes, there are difficulties, but was it easier in 1941-42? Yes, only after a year and a half of that enemy were driven tens of kilometers a day in 1943, and now it’s a hundred meters and then with difficulty. What has changed, why is this? Many people are asking themselves this question now, this is not what we expected on 24.02.2024/2022/1942, not at all. But until XNUMX our generals... danced and sang. Or is everything wrong? Everything is fine in your opinion “Yes, look at the personnel composition of the deputy ministers of defense of the Russian Federation: who they are, and a lot will also become clear to you. The play “Front” XNUMX. The title doesn’t say anything? India... however
      1. -3
        April 3 2024 16: 00
        Why during WWII the SVT-40, the best semi-automatic rifle at that time, was discontinued, the Mig-3, the best high-altitude fighter, at least in the European theater of operations, it is debatable with the Japanese Zero, and the production of the most modern ZIS-2 was curtailed in 41 and restored only in 43?
        Everything is very simple, during a major war it is necessary to build a lot of equipment that has been mastered both in production and in the army, and the production of new models only makes sense if they either provide a huge advantage or the old ones do not meet the times.
        It is possible to convert the facilities for Armata to UAZ, we will spend a year on technical re-equipment, and we will debug production for another half a year...
        At the same time, the military unit produced more than 2023 t-1500 in 72, and at a minimum this is re-preservation and modernization, but it doesn’t matter. That is, while we put armature into production, we will be missing about 2500 tanks (UVS still manages to build the T-90)...
        About artillery this is generally a profanation, the same Msta-s is quite on par with any Western artillery, maybe inferior to the PZ-2000 and Archer. Ancient American paladins are no match at all.
        Where we are inferior is in shells similar to Excalibur (or its French equivalent) and in the ability to determine the coordinates of targets with the necessary accuracy and efficiency to the required depth of the enemy’s defense.
        If you take ordinary cast iron, Msta-s will shoot most of the Western artillery, in terms of accuracy and rate of fire, in terms of range it will be somewhere in the middle.
        As soon as the Krasnopol-D type shells are fired, the same revenge will hit up to 50 km, but the most important question is reconnaissance of targets and transferring them to the howitzer battery. Without this there is no point in shooting. Even Krasnopol-D acacias will be able to shoot at 35-40 km in the field... If Hyacinths can use Krasnopol-D, they will be able to shoot further than 50 km... The question is precisely the shells and timely reconnaissance of targets and timely transmission of data via a secure channel to the battery ...
      2. +2
        April 4 2024 10: 32
        All of today's time pressure is the result of twenty years of political and economic waste. And nothing more.
  12. +4
    April 3 2024 07: 04
    A huge plus to the author for the epic story! Humor invigorates you in the morning!
  13. +6
    April 3 2024 08: 08
    And in peacetime and at training grounds, according to the Indian military, “Arjun” is the coolest in the world.

    We’ve already seen this with some tank, although it didn’t go into production, they say it’s expensive.
    In fact, the article deals with what patriots are bombarded with: producing their own or purchasing foreign ones, only when Russia was engaged in purchasing foreign equipment, there was a howl throughout the forum, but India should not engage in its own development work - it’s stupid and they won’t do anything, It’s better to buy foreign, preferably Russian. wassat
  14. +5
    April 3 2024 08: 09
    just like in our civil aviation, I don’t see something in the sky of civil aircraft Made 100% in Russia
  15. -2
    April 3 2024 08: 14
    Quote: Yuri L
    It’s very interesting how many episodes there will be in the new Russian film series “Armata”, “Coalition-SV” (it’s not entirely clear about the number of episodes, but there seem to be glimpses), “Boomerang”, “Su-75” from the famous Russian film producer “Raspilcinema”? I think we’ll give even Bollywood a head start here. But how beautifully the main characters of these series walk and dance in the parades. And how joyfully they are greeted in the stands, with song and dance by the construction-MES artists at heart! Still, we learn, we learn something too. ..from Bollywood. And everyone knows that the machines developed by their fathers and based on those developed by their fathers will go into the mud and fire. Long live "Raspilcinema"! Disco dancers...at colorful, song-filled tank biathlons! Ala-ala, Ala-ala..."Check and...Checkmate", only checkmate remains.

    This is all still in development. Here they said in Russian that it needs to be done quickly and cheaply and this is correct. Let them test new models in Ukraine and treat childhood diseases. During the Second World War it was possible to produce weapons that were better in terms of performance characteristics like the Sudaev assault rifle, but then it was necessary would rebuild production lines
  16. +11
    April 3 2024 09: 12
    There lived in the 16th century a monk named Sebastian Brant, who went down in history with his satirical work “Ship of Fools,” in which he exposed the vices of his contemporaries. There are these lines there:
    To the bitch hit the pupil
    Let him get the knot out earlier
    And then he tells a friend:
    "Sorrel, they say, in your eye."
    Where the teacher is so miserable
    Alien vices accuser
    Who, infected by themselves,
    He does not see them in himself! Oh shame!
    Truly, as they say:
    “The doctor should be healed first!”

    As for throwing a stone into someone else's garden regarding the fact that
    technology of the highest order is given to Indians with huge problems

    then here it would be good for the author to remember how Luna 25 and Chandrayaan-3 landed on the Moon and that the list of countries whose spacecraft made a soft landing on the Moon looks like this so far: USSR, USA, China, India.
    1. -4
      April 3 2024 11: 08
      It's not that people think Indians don't need to do something. Rather, they laugh at their over-ambitiousness.
      1. +9
        April 3 2024 13: 03
        Rather, they laugh at their over-ambitiousness.

        If you get information about India from such articles, then, of course, you can laugh.
        Meanwhile, the first concept of self-sufficiency in the Indian economy, the Bombay Plan, was formulated back in 1944. And since then, although not always successfully, India has been moving towards this. And the successful Indian nuclear and space programs are proof of this. This is not ambition, this is determination. And thanks to this determination, today, for example, India ranks fourth in the world in car production, between the USA and Japan, and Russia, gluing nameplates on Chinese cars, ranks twenty-first, between Malaysia and South Africa. Is it really funny?
        1. -7
          April 3 2024 18: 27
          Meanwhile, the first concept of self-sufficiency in the Indian economy, the Bombay Plan, was formulated back in 1944.

          The Indians have all sorts of "plans," but when you state a plan, it's best not to be rhetorical.
          In fact, the only plan that India has been able to implement is the construction of the one and only Bollywood.
  17. +7
    April 3 2024 09: 17
    Indians are doing everything right. Buying and depending in terms of weapons on Russia, which can be put under pressure by your main rival China, is very dangerous. Russia's economic dependence on China has grown exponentially since 2014. Of course, China also depends on us while the United States looks at them askance. But how it will turn out there if suddenly, with tensions with China rising, he suddenly puts pressure on Russia in terms of banning arms supplies to India is unknown. This is an unnecessary risk.
    It's not much better with the Americans. Of course, they do not depend on anyone and you can take weapons from them, but the US policy itself, which crushes everyone and everything for any trifle, also does not inspire confidence. Germany, France, Israel are independent very conditionally. The Americans will order and do whatever the Americans need.
    There is only one thing left. Do everything yourself. Expensive, long, but there is no way out.
    1. 0
      April 3 2024 10: 01
      Everything is correct, but you need to do it and bring it to fruition and think about where it’s easier to buy and not spend money on development... as is the case with AKs and assault rifles. They can’t even decide on the caliber of the cartridge; all cartridges are of all standards. Example - China - everything is the same, but everything has been completed...and there are trends and they have moved on. Compare the Su30MKI and Su30MKK programs.....a clear example
  18. +3
    April 3 2024 09: 26
    Already what was taken should have caused bewilderment:
    ...
    - British L1A1...

    This choice could only cause bewilderment if you knew nothing about the production of small arms in India.
    The British L1A1 under the name Ishapore 1A1 was produced in India to equip its own army under license from 1960 to 1998. That is, proven technology and equipment are available. It is logical to use it as a base, rather than build everything from scratch.
  19. 0
    April 3 2024 09: 38
    "...The MiG-29, which is by no means a standard in the sky."
    It was really a shame for the 29th sad
    1. 0
      April 3 2024 19: 28
      Take it or leave it, but the MiG-29 is a good car and, unlike the SU-27, it has not been completely redesigned.
      1. 0
        April 5 2024 11: 06
        It was good in the 80s-90s. Yes, in principle, you can probably modernize any aircraft, leaving only the body old, but the cost of remodeling will be equal to that of a new one
        1. -2
          April 5 2024 12: 52
          F-16, F-15 and F/A-18 look at you in surprise.
  20. 0
    April 3 2024 09: 43
    Wow Roman! Had some fun this time! laughing
  21. +1
    April 3 2024 09: 48
    After all, work on the design of the Arjuna began in that distant year, when the first T-72s began to be assembled in Nizhny Tagil.

    The T-72 tank began to be produced in 1973, and the Indians began designing the Arjun tank in 1983.
  22. -3
    April 3 2024 09: 59
    For countries like India (China 20 years ago), the most correct way is to license what they give - Su30MKI (For example), then introduce third-party avionics and weapons to suit their wishes.
    But in a comprehensive manner, and not “give me the codes from your radar, we will attach Israeli missiles to it.” Buy from Israel itself (Britain, France) Radar + missiles in-in and sculpt.
  23. -2
    April 3 2024 10: 53
    Quote: Belisarius
    Quote: Totor5
    The question arises: why the hell did they hand out licenses to all sorts of creatures from Eastern Europe during the USSR?

    Licenses were issued to Czechoslovakia and Poland in 1978. Within the framework of a single Department of Internal Affairs and CMEA. And above all for our own armies. This was standard practice; for example, in Poland they made large landing craft for us.
    At that time, no one expected a transition to “effective capitalism” during perestroika in the USSR.
    And by the way, the majority of exported T-72 tanks came from the USSR, and the lion’s share of exports from Eastern Europe occurred in the 80s when they were allies.
    Since the beginning of the 90s, the T-72 market was dominated by the former Soviet republics, that is, parts of the USSR, and not at all by the former CMEA countries.


    How can an Eastern European mongrel who fights against you every war be an Ally? Who do you have to be to arm them, and even at your own expense? They built military factories for them, set up production and allowed them to sell all over the world! For example, there were their tanks in Iraq. Couldn’t we sell simplified T72s to Iraq and make money on it ourselves and pay our people salaries, and not these darned brothers?!

    Not only that, but China has filled all of Asia with our Ak, Dshk and T55. And everyone has RPGs.
    And we have shish with butter, or rather without it.
  24. +4
    April 3 2024 11: 31
    Another very long and loud fart into a puddle from a person who, well, generally cannot draw any conclusions from information on the surface.... I wonder how you can write such, like, analytical sheets without using your brain?
    And the situation is as simple as two and two. Especially if you haven't been in hibernation for the last 2 years. If you want to be sure that your country will be able to fight back and win the conflict, then you need to rely only on yourself and have your own critical technologies))) and in the military sphere, that’s right - aviation, MBT, artillery and small arms. Well, now there are drones. And the Indians saw very well what came out of the Russian approach: we’ll buy abroad when those same foreign countries sent us in the woods))) Therefore, it’s not the Indians who are stupid, but someone else))
    1. +3
      April 3 2024 13: 37
      I wonder how you can write things like analytical sheets without using your brain?

      Easily. This is the modern motto of most of the site’s authors.
  25. +9
    April 3 2024 11: 44
    Skomorokhov’s novel and the theme of the Indian military-industrial complex are made for each other, endless songs with dances and meaningless sheets of text as one whole, like yin and yang.
  26. +5
    April 3 2024 11: 50
    In general, dancing, singing, and drinking. When you look at the money that Indian partners spend on entertainment such as creating purely Indian weapons, you realize that there is a lot to learn and envy. But with this patriotic program “Make in India!” they are clearly overkill.

    What a miracle - the Indian government is allowing Indian producers to earn money! And he doesn’t want to find himself in a situation where foreign suppliers for some reason won’t provide weapons!
    That’s how strange it is... although you can call it a “state approach”.

    I will express the opinion that after having fun with the game of creating “their own” weapons, bright Indian minds will return to purchasing in Russia and producing at home.

    I would like to express the opinion that a more informative graph would be “how many weapons India buys and from whom by year.” But the schedule is difficult and it will be a complete disappointment.

    I will also express the opinion that it will be increasingly difficult for India not only to buy, but also to pay for Russian goods:
    "Supplies of Russian weapons to India have been suspended, and countries are trying to find a payment mechanism that would not violate US sanctions, Bloomberg reported, citing Indian officials.
    According to one of the agency's interlocutors, payments to India for weapons worth more than $2 billion have been delayed for about a year, while Russia has stopped extending a loan for the supply of spare parts worth about $10 billion, as well as for the future supply of two batteries of the C missile defense system -400.
    " https://www.rbc.ru/politics/21/04/2023/64423c5a9a79471d40eac08e

    By the way, what contracts does India have in the defense sector? Fighters and submarines - France, anti-aircraft aircraft, helicopters - USA, guided weapons and air defense systems - Israel, even 56 VTA - Airbus.
    What is left for the Russian Federation? Continuation of the SU30 cycle?
  27. +4
    April 3 2024 12: 39
    We also have enough plugs. Il-112V, Angara, Checkmate, 20386, A-100, etc.
    Hundreds of billions of people's money have been flushed down the toilet. Something may be brought to fruition, but definitely only a part and unlikely to a normal series. So it’s in vain that Roman ruined India so much, we also know how to play in unfinished and unfinished construction.
  28. +3
    April 3 2024 13: 19
    This story about India smelled something familiar: projects of the best weapons in the world, which drag on for years and decades, sucking hundreds of millions from the budget and endlessly displayed at exhibitions and parades in order to increase the pride and patriotism of the population, but at the same time produced individually or in general not produced, and if something happens, old Soviet developments go to war.
  29. 0
    April 3 2024 14: 07
    Yes, everything there is not shaky or shaky... In a good way, they started there from the wrong end - they had to buy enterprises and localize the production of good samples. Then, during this production, organize pilot production and experiments in small batches. This is where you can train your design school - bring together 2-3 manufacturers competing for government orders.
    Unlike the USSR or China when they deployed their production, India is not under sanctions and can actually eat from all tables. In this regard, there are almost greenhouse conditions and a wide range of options.
    1. -1
      April 3 2024 17: 16
      Nope, it won't work. Their goal setting is nirvana, not a technical result. :)
  30. 0
    April 3 2024 14: 20
    Ruthless article, BRIGGS after all
  31. +4
    April 3 2024 14: 35
    And that our Armata is capable of fighting, no. The tank couldn’t even make it through the parade because it broke down. We’ve been fiddling with this Armata for over ten years now, but what’s the point? But we love to criticize other people’s things. Meanwhile, the Indians were able to reach Mars and landed a rover, unlike Russia. If you suffer for a long time, something will work out for India too.
  32. 0
    April 3 2024 15: 28
    Accepting a tank with a rifled gun was clearly stupid.
  33. 0
    April 3 2024 17: 14
    I didn’t want to write about the Eastern mentality, but when they told me for a week, three times over, that the engine was working properly, when it was running at half power and smoking like a steam locomotive, I understood Zen. They perceive technology as a way of communication. Goal setting is to show off, not to achieve a formalized result. But there is something in this. :)
  34. AB
    0
    April 3 2024 17: 26
    Personally, I had no idea what was going on with these guys. Therefore, thanks to the author. I laughed heartily.
  35. +3
    April 3 2024 17: 42
    India had no Soviet baggage. If the modern Russian Federation did not have Soviet baggage, I suspect everything would be exactly the same. In the Republic of Ingushetia there were also Kulibins, but in the end there were not enough Mosin rifles, machine guns, airplanes, etc. The West supplied everything to the First World War.
    When technological progress goes further and the Soviet baggage becomes completely obsolete, then similar scenarios may appear in the Russian Federation.
  36. +6
    April 3 2024 18: 42
    About the T-14 and T-50 PAKFA armatures, he pushed the analogue to the Internet well, because we are not Indians, after all, it’s not ours that neither one nor the other has been adopted into service and has entered the troops and is actively participating in the SVO? Ahnet is not participating? Well then at least it was done? Huh? It arrived, didn’t it? Well, in more detail about what’s going on with the valves and engine? Is the gun still with a lifespan of 200-300 shots? And is there only 20-30mm of armor or more? Is the radar surface of the Su-57 already symmetrical or is it still the same as before? Where is the second stage engine? Or does it not fit?
  37. +3
    April 3 2024 19: 06
    Informative. In Prose. Ru for 2023/03/13/1401 there is an article by Levichev, he writes that in 2019 Serdyukov sold the technological line for the production of tanks to India, I am glad that India is doing well with tanks. But did we get something in return?
  38. +3
    April 3 2024 20: 04
    Having read about the “standard zinc” for 2000 rounds, it’s hard to take everything else for granted.
  39. 0
    April 3 2024 23: 24
    Their real dances on tambourines will begin during serious kneadings...
    There's not enough popcorn for everything!
  40. +1
    April 4 2024 00: 10
    The Indians formally left the “Indian Su8” project 10-57 years ago
  41. +4
    April 4 2024 07: 37
    Armata is generally the most formidable tank. I haven’t fired a single shot yet, but there are so many shell-shocked people on social networks already.
  42. 0
    April 4 2024 17: 05
    The author doesn’t understand anything, Arjun is a tank of the future, which means that he will fight in the future, and not today am
  43. +1
    April 4 2024 23: 58
    Europe is transferring its resource-intensive production to India, so that relatively soon their military-industrial complex will be transferred to European standards and technologies. Then we will lose the market for our weapons in India.
  44. 0
    April 6 2024 21: 04
    Russian weapons never failed them.
  45. 0
    April 9 2024 18: 43
    The author underestimates India in vain, they are diligently developing, and we also have difficulties with promising weapons programs, and there is also a problem with the timing of the construction of new ships and aircraft, at this rate, there is a high probability that the Indians will have nothing special to offer us.
  46. 0
    April 12 2024 23: 38
    Quote: Dekabrist
    India ranks fourth in the world in car production, between the USA and Japan, and Russia, gluing nameplates on Chinese cars, ranks twenty-first

    There is a small nuance
    Namely, the number of workers.
    India - 1 billion population
    Russia - less than 150 million
    Roughly speaking, India has 10 times more labor
    I'm not saying that India can load them 100%, but this factor does exist.